1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 21 May 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 280       Contents:$ Re: "Unix-like systems like VAX/VMS" AV SCANNER FOR VMS Re: AV SCANNER FOR VMS Re: AV SCANNER FOR VMS Re: AV SCANNER FOR VMS Re: AV SCANNER FOR VMS Re: AV SCANNER FOR VMS> Re: Big Blue - Caught Red Handed, stealing KGPSA HBA info?????> Re: Big Blue - Caught Red Handed, stealing KGPSA HBA info?????> Re: Big Blue - Caught Red Handed, stealing KGPSA HBA info?????> Re: Big Blue - Caught Red Handed, stealing KGPSA HBA info?????> Re: Big Blue - Caught Red Handed, stealing KGPSA HBA info?????> RE: Big Blue - Caught Red Handed, stealing KGPSA HBA info?????> Re: Big Blue - Caught Red Handed, stealing KGPSA HBA info?????> Re: Big Blue - Caught Red Handed, stealing KGPSA HBA info?????> Re: Big Blue - Caught Red Handed, stealing KGPSA HBA info?????> RE: Big Blue - Caught Red Handed, stealing KGPSA HBA info?????> Re: Big Blue - Caught Red Handed, stealing KGPSA HBA info????? Re: CSWS 2.0 Source Code?  Re: CSWS 2.0 Source Code?  Re: CSWS 2.0 Source Code?  Re: Dave Cutler and VMS  Re: Dave Cutler and VMS  Re: Dave Cutler and VMS  Re: Dave Cutler and VMS  Re: Dave Cutler and VMS  RE: Dave Cutler and VMS  Re: Dave Cutler and VMS  RE: Dave Cutler and VMS 6 DtWsm function to detect occupation of all workspaces?) Re: Eastern Washington University project ) Re: Eastern Washington University project ) Re: Eastern Washington University project - Re: Hobbyist Licensing? (was: Re: netbooting)  Re: J F kicked out by ISP  Re: J F kicked out by ISP  KSTACKPAGES  Re: KSTACKPAGES   Re: LAT & Hobbyist VMS questions Re: Minimum GBLPAGES..2 Re: TCPIP Services IMAP server - reloading headers! Vaxstation 3100 and graphics card ) Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised ) Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised ) Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised ) Re: [OT]:  Maybe SCO is (partially) right   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 22:07:54 +0200 + From: Wilm Boerhout <w2.boerhout@planet.nl> - Subject: Re: "Unix-like systems like VAX/VMS" 5 Message-ID: <40ad101b$0$9500$ba620dc5@nova.planet.nl>   J > Admittedly, someone has just posted a comment criticising their take on  > VAX/VMS being unixy. :)  >   H Yeah. I did, too. Not very articulated, I'm afraid. Just angry. We lose  deals to India, too.   Wilm   *** usual disclaimers apply ***    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 14:50:23 -0500 ( From: brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon) Subject: AV SCANNER FOR VMS 1 Message-ID: <04052014502341@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>   M We currently use SOPHOS Anti-Virus scanner for VMS to file-scan our PW shares  and common areas.     M I have recently been notified that SOPHOS is terminating this product for VMS  sometime in 2005.     ' Anyone using another AV scanner on VMS?          J*o*h*n B*r*a*n*d*o*n  VMS Systems Administrator * firstname.lastname.spam.me.not@dalsemi.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 21:05:02 +0100 < From: "Alex Daniels" <AlexNOSPAMTHANKSDaniels@themail.co.uk> Subject: Re: AV SCANNER FOR VMS ) Message-ID: <c8j314$doa$1@news.wplus.net>   5 "John Brandon" <brandon@dalsemi.com> wrote in message + news:04052014502341@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com... H > We currently use SOPHOS Anti-Virus scanner for VMS to file-scan our PW shares > and common areas.  > K > I have recently been notified that SOPHOS is terminating this product for  VMS  > sometime in 2005.  >  > ) > Anyone using another AV scanner on VMS?  >  >  >  >  > J*o*h*n B*r*a*n*d*o*n  > VMS Systems Administrator , > firstname.lastname.spam.me.not@dalsemi.com  D Nope, I'm using Sophos as well and have used it at other sites too..  @ How did you hear about this, did they send out a letter/email ??   Alex   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 20:33:25 +0000 (UTC) 6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) Subject: Re: AV SCANNER FOR VMS 1 Message-ID: <newscache$tw41yh$pkk1$1@news.sil.at>   \ In article <04052014502341@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>, brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon) writes:N >We currently use SOPHOS Anti-Virus scanner for VMS to file-scan our PW shares >and common areas.    2 I'd like to do this (and integrate it in MX), too.  N >I have recently been notified that SOPHOS is terminating this product for VMS >sometime in 2005.  C Huuh ? Where is a good talk from a vendor to an ISV if we need it ?   K Besides, what was your price ? I had a quote for 108,9 per year per license H with a minimum of 5 licenses. Which was way out of my hobbyist budget...  ( >Anyone using another AV scanner on VMS?   Is there one ?   --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 15:51:49 -0500 ( From: brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon) Subject: Re: AV SCANNER FOR VMS 1 Message-ID: <04052015514913@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>    Alex Daniels writes:F > Nope, I'm using Sophos as well and have used it at other sites too..B > How did you hear about this, did they send out a letter/email ??  M I read it in a PDF document supplied by SOPHOS.  I was asking for a quote and : this is what I get... well actually I got a quote as well.  ' Active Development ends  = 30-Jun-2005. 1 Maintenance support ends = TBD (to be determined)          J*o*h*n B*r*a*n*d*o*n  VMS Systems Administrator * firstname.lastname.spam.me.not@dalsemi.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 15:59:24 -0500 ( From: brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon) Subject: Re: AV SCANNER FOR VMS 1 Message-ID: <04052015592416@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>    peter@langstoeger.at writes:P > >We currently use SOPHOS Anti-Virus scanner for VMS to file-scan our PW shares > >and common areas.   > 4 > I'd like to do this (and integrate it in MX), too.  F That would be nice, however I would venture to say not enought demand.  : I have found a FILESCAN works just fine in my environment.  P > >I have recently been notified that SOPHOS is terminating this product for VMS > >sometime in 2005. > E > Huuh ? Where is a good talk from a vendor to an ISV if we need it ?   ) Sounds like a job for VMS Ambassadors ...   M > Besides, what was your price ? I had a quote for 108,9 per year per license J > with a minimum of 5 licenses. Which was way out of my hobbyist budget...  M I am not at liberty to discuss quotes - however it is a lot more and it was a  server license...   * > >Anyone using another AV scanner on VMS? >  > Is there one ?   Looking... hoping...     J*o*h*n B*r*a*n*d*o*n  VMS Systems Administrator * firstname.lastname.spam.me.not@dalsemi.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 18:10:34 -0400 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>  Subject: Re: AV SCANNER FOR VMS , Message-ID: <R9mdnesTyP5BsTDdRVn-jw@igs.net>  5 "John Brandon" <brandon@dalsemi.com> wrote in message + news:04052014502341@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com... H > We currently use SOPHOS Anti-Virus scanner for VMS to file-scan our PW shares > and common areas.  > K > I have recently been notified that SOPHOS is terminating this product for  VMS  > sometime in 2005.  >  > ) > Anyone using another AV scanner on VMS?     J Nope. The only other interesting independent AV scanner was bought by MS a2 couple years ago in order to kill a Linux version.    L This is just another example of a sole-source ISV for VMS deciding to retire9 a key product, a.k.a. another nail in the coffin for VMS.   E Who's going to call Mark Gonzalez, Mark Gorham, Scott Stallard, Peter 8 Blackmore, or carly(tm) with the cheerful news, and more3 importantly.....what are they going to do about it?   L This is why advertising is important - ISV's don't see any public commitment7 from HP towards helping ISV's sell infrastructure apps.   L HP likes to think that apps sell OpenVMS. Apps like these are not the reasonI why companies buy VMS but they are among the reasons why they CONTINUE to G use VMS. Take enough apps like this away and soon there is no reason to C continue to use VMS except for and ever smaller number of accounts.   9 HP - be careful what you wish for....you just may get it.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 17:57:43 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")G Subject: Re: Big Blue - Caught Red Handed, stealing KGPSA HBA info????? 6 Message-ID: <00A321E1.BD43BF99@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>   In article <c8iha6$30v$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes:+ >Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr wrote: o >> In article <c8f7v8$enj$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison <andrew_._remove_harrison@su_n.com> writes:  >>   >>>David Svensson wrote: >>>  >>>  >>>>Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<c8dg6o$pig$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...  >>>> >>>> >>>>>Jan van Mastbergen wrote: >>>>> D >>>>>When OSF died a well deserved death Digital changed the name ofF >>>>>OSF-1 to DECUNIX quickly followed by another rebranding to Tru64. >>>> >>>> >>>>Why was it well deserved?  >>>> >>> 5 >>>Because the motives for creating OSF were entirely 3 >>>bogus and because is set back the development of & >>>UNIX to a point where NT creapt in. >>   >>  L >> As far as I could tell, the motives for creating OSF were mostly distressJ >> at the idea that AT&T - still official proprietors of Unix - had taken N >> a significant ownership position in Sun.  This made other Unix players feelP >> that the playing field was no longer level, and that they had to do something >> about it. >>   >  >Ahh Bogus point number 1. > G >In fact AT&T did not pass any ownership of UNIX to Sun at all, instead F >Sun was contracted to do a lot of the SVR4 development the results of* >which were all owned by AT&T and not Sun.  K I leave this all in because you seem to be contradicting something I didn't M say.  I said AT&T took a significant ownership position in Sun, not that AT&T N gave Sun any ownership of Unix.  HP, Digital, and IBM didn't trust _AT&T_, andF didn't like the former referee getting in bed with one of the players.  F That's not a bogus motive -- you could call it misguided, but it's not
 imaginary. > E >And even if the first point had been partly true and Sun had aquired D >partial ownership of SVR4 there was no evidence that Sun would have? >used that ownership to the dissadvantage of the other vendors.     But that wasn't the first point. > A >Sun after all had an exemplary record of providing access to its 4 >one IP, one only has to think of NFS as an example. > J And here I agree.  Sun was putting forth all kinds of useful standards andJ protocols.  (This wasn't sheer distinterested goodness; they needed those K protocols to be broadly implemented in order to be generally interoperable. N There's very little point in NFS if it only lets Sun boxes talk to each other,H especially at the point when it was released, when Sun was pretty much a workstation company.)   C >The best you could say about HP, IBM and HP's motives in this case ? >was that they assumed that Sun would behave in the same way as @ >they would have done if the assumed boot was on the other foot.  N AT&T, you might recall, had given up being a protected communications monopolyL in exchange for the right to sell computers to the general public.  They hadM strongly signalled that they wanted to be a for-profit competitor in the Unix M marketplace.  Regardless of Sun's previous behavior, it made plenty of sense  O for other Unix vendors not to want to let AT&T and Sun control their destinies.   I (Note, also, that there wasn't universal agreement that System V was the  J way to go.  There was a lot of 4.xBSD-based stuff around, and nobody liked0 the idea of it getting declared not to be Unix.)   -- Alan    --  O =============================================================================== 0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056 M  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025 O ===============================================================================    ------------------------------    Date: 20 May 2004 12:56:13 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) G Subject: Re: Big Blue - Caught Red Handed, stealing KGPSA HBA info????? 3 Message-ID: <02LwJBNTvgYJ@eisner.encompasserve.org>   Y In article <2h3ocfF8ola5U2@uni-berlin.de>, bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:  > K > And once again everyone ignores the fact that real Unix (minus the name!) G > as it was developed at BSD is readily available, totally standard and J > more free than Linux in the form of {Free|Open|Net}BSD.  I still can notJ > understand why any commercial endeavor would use Linux as opposed to oneH > of the BSD's based solely on the license and totally ignoring the fact? > that the BSD's are technically much better operating systems.   C    Hype.  Why do you think they were using UNIX in the first place?    ------------------------------   Date: 20 May 2004 18:40:35 GMT, From: bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)G Subject: Re: Big Blue - Caught Red Handed, stealing KGPSA HBA info????? * Message-ID: <2h4cd3F8tbq0U1@uni-berlin.de>  6 In article <00A321E2.624CC161@ssrl.slac.stanford.edu>,O 	winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") writes:  >   . I won't bother addressing the rest, but.......  L > And RSX-11 isn't now known as VMS, even though some good bits of RSX ended > up in VMS.  D Of course it isn't.  RSX-11 is still known as RSX-11 and it is stillC commercially available, unlike any of the other defunct examples to  this inane thread.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 20 May 2004 18:49:03 GMT, From: bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)G Subject: Re: Big Blue - Caught Red Handed, stealing KGPSA HBA info????? * Message-ID: <2h4csvF8tbq0U2@uni-berlin.de>  3 In article <02LwJBNTvgYJ@eisner.encompasserve.org>, > 	koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:[ > In article <2h3ocfF8ola5U2@uni-berlin.de>, bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:  >>  L >> And once again everyone ignores the fact that real Unix (minus the name!)H >> as it was developed at BSD is readily available, totally standard andK >> more free than Linux in the form of {Free|Open|Net}BSD.  I still can not K >> understand why any commercial endeavor would use Linux as opposed to one I >> of the BSD's based solely on the license and totally ignoring the fact @ >> that the BSD's are technically much better operating systems. >  >    Hype.    H Which part is hype?  Hype is that Linux is somehow "the new standard forE Unix".  Hype is that Linux is "free".  Hype is that Linux is actually  superior to anything.   D >          Why do you think they were using UNIX in the first place?  F I guess I don't understand this statement at all.  Who is "they"?  AndF if you mean UCB, I don't see what their reasons for using Unix have toF do with anything I said above.  UCB is out of the picture except for aD few sentences of legacy Copyright that have to continue to be copiedE in derivative works.  The BSD's have the advantage of decades of very E serious computer research behind them while Linux continues to suffer F from NIH syndrome.  And that is just the tip of the iceberg.  We won'tD even get into the Gnu Public Virus and how bad an idea it is for any kind of commercial endeavor.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 20 May 2004 19:34:15 GMT, From: bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)G Subject: Re: Big Blue - Caught Red Handed, stealing KGPSA HBA info????? * Message-ID: <2h4fhnF8qkujU1@uni-berlin.de>  6 In article <00A321E9.59C898D5@ssrl.slac.stanford.edu>,O 	winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") writes: [ > In article <2h4cd3F8tbq0U1@uni-berlin.de>, bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: 8 >>In article <00A321E2.624CC161@ssrl.slac.stanford.edu>,Q >>	winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") writes:  >>>  >>0 >>I won't bother addressing the rest, but....... >>N >>> And RSX-11 isn't now known as VMS, even though some good bits of RSX ended >>> up in VMS. >>F >>Of course it isn't.  RSX-11 is still known as RSX-11 and it is stillE >>commercially available, unlike any of the other defunct examples to  >>this inane thread. >  > N > (I agree it's a ridiculous thread.  However, Tru-64 is still known as Tru-64Q > and is still commercially available, even though EOLed, so RSX-11 is just about N > as good an example of what's wrong with Andrew's point as any of the others.+ > But for clarity I should have said RSTS.)  >   G Strike 2.  RSTS is still commercially available.  And before you strike G out completely, so is RT-11.  None of the really well known PDP-11 OSes G have been EOLed yet. Now, IAS and Ultrix-11 are toast (although some of C us have been having fun revivng Ultrix-11 and Y2King where needed.)    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 12:58:23 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> G Subject: RE: Big Blue - Caught Red Handed, stealing KGPSA HBA info????? 9 Message-ID: <NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECIGEHKDEAA.tom@kednos.com>      -----Original Message-----5   From: Bill Gunshannon [mailto:bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu] '   Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 12:34 PM    To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com I   Subject: Re: Big Blue - Caught Red Handed, stealing KGPSA HBA info?????     8   In article <00A321E9.59C898D5@ssrl.slac.stanford.edu>,=   	winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin    Cmptg Mgr") writes: C   > In article <2h4cd3F8tbq0U1@uni-berlin.de>, bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu    (Bill Gunshannon) writes: :   >>In article <00A321E2.624CC161@ssrl.slac.stanford.edu>,?   >>	winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin    Cmptg Mgr") writes:    >>>    >>2   >>I won't bother addressing the rest, but.......   >>C   >>> And RSX-11 isn't now known as VMS, even though some good bits    of RSX ended   >>> up in VMS.   >>H   >>Of course it isn't.  RSX-11 is still known as RSX-11 and it is stillG   >>commercially available, unlike any of the other defunct examples to    >>this inane thread.   >    > @   > (I agree it's a ridiculous thread.  However, Tru-64 is still   known as Tru-64 >   > and is still commercially available, even though EOLed, so   RSX-11 is just aboutA   > as good an example of what's wrong with Andrew's point as any    of the others.-   > But for clarity I should have said RSTS.)    >   I   Strike 2.  RSTS is still commercially available.  And before you strike I   out completely, so is RT-11.  None of the really well known PDP-11 OSes I   have been EOLed yet. Now, IAS and Ultrix-11 are toast (although some of E   us have been having fun revivng Ultrix-11 and Y2King where needed.)   J If I get ambitious, I'll power Ultrix and make up a PL/I kit for hobbyists/ so you can have a real compiler to play with:-)    Tom      bill     --L   Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesF   bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.   University of Scranton   |@   Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>     --- (   Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.<   Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A   Version: 6.0.680 / Virus Database: 442 - Release Date: 5/9/2004    --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).? Version: 6.0.680 / Virus Database: 442 - Release Date: 5/9/2004    ------------------------------   Date: 20 May 2004 20:16:02 GMT, From: bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)G Subject: Re: Big Blue - Caught Red Handed, stealing KGPSA HBA info????? * Message-ID: <2h4i01F8uukaU1@uni-berlin.de>  9 In article <NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECIGEHKDEAA.tom@kednos.com>, & 	"Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes: >  > 7 >   From: Bill Gunshannon [mailto:bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu]  > K >   Strike 2.  RSTS is still commercially available.  And before you strike K >   out completely, so is RT-11.  None of the really well known PDP-11 OSes K >   have been EOLed yet. Now, IAS and Ultrix-11 are toast (although some of G >   us have been having fun revivng Ultrix-11 and Y2King where needed.)  > L > If I get ambitious, I'll power Ultrix and make up a PL/I kit for hobbyists1 > so you can have a real compiler to play with:-)  >   E You have PL/I for the PDP-11.  Now that would be cool.  If you do get F the chance to do this be sure to announce it over in the PDP-11 groups1 too.  I don't imagine most of them hang out here.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 19:11:54 -0400   From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>G Subject: Re: Big Blue - Caught Red Handed, stealing KGPSA HBA info????? 6 Message-ID: <1040520185642.32308C-100000@Ives.egh.com>  = On Thu, 20 May 2004, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:    > Alex Daniels wrote: u > > Andrew Harrison <andrew_._remove_harrison@su_n.com> wrote in message news:<c8feu2$h4r$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...  > >  > >>Alex Daniels wrote:  > >> > >> > >  > > D > > In the context of the discussion of Tru64 previous names (OSF/1,G > > Digital Unix, Compaq's DIGITAL UNIX) before finally becoming Tru64.  > > B > > Just because some Tru64 bits are being ported into hp-ux, your= > > statement 'Its now called HP-UX' does NOT become correct.  > >  > = > So will your point still be true when the 11i.3 or whatever ; > the HP-UX version number is that has the Tru64 bits comes  > out and Tru64 is EOL'd ? >   > Nope so my point still stands.  < This is by far the most ridiculous claim you have ever made.  A Will you be able to upgrade an Alpha running Tru64 to HP-UX 11i.3 : (or what ever it is called; I'm completely unfamiliar with HP-UX's numbering scheme?)  = Will you be able to mount a Tru64 disk on an HP-UX V?? system  and execute programs off it?  > Will you be able to recompile your programs on an HP-UX system; and access binary data files (big-endian vs. little-endian)  without conversion?   < When you log into HP-UX V??, will it say "Welcome to Tru64?"  @ "No" to all these!  So in what sense will Tru64 be called HP-UX?  E Could Microsoft call Windows-NT "VMS" because Microsoft stole lots of  bits from VMS for it?    Is CP/M really RT-11?    > @ > > Tru64's name has NOT changed. So its not 'now called HP-UX'. > > & > > Once again get your facts correct. > >  > < > Ahh so lets apply your rule such that it is to the Tru64's > ancestors. > < > Using your theory OSF-1 was not renamed as DECUNIX because > DECUNIX was a new release.  < Well, if you had an OSF-1 license, when the new version came9 out called "DEC Unix", your license applied, your support 9 contract continued, you could install it on your existing 9 system, and your applications would continue to work.  It > was just a new name combined with a new version of an existing product.  * When Tru64 was released, the same applied.  8 None of this will be true when HP-UX with Tru64 features becomes available.  	 > Regards  > Andrew Harrison    --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 19:18:22 -0400   From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>G Subject: Re: Big Blue - Caught Red Handed, stealing KGPSA HBA info????? 6 Message-ID: <1040520191335.32308D-100000@Ives.egh.com>  = On Thu, 20 May 2004, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:   , > Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr wrote:p > > In article <c8f7v8$enj$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison <andrew_._remove_harrison@su_n.com> writes: > >  > >>David Svensson wrote:  > >> > >> > >>>Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<c8dg6o$pig$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>... > >>>  > >>>  > >>>>Jan van Mastbergen wrote:  > >>>>E > >>>>When OSF died a well deserved death Digital changed the name of G > >>>>OSF-1 to DECUNIX quickly followed by another rebranding to Tru64.  > >>>  > >>>  > >>>Why was it well deserved? > >>>  > >>6 > >>Because the motives for creating OSF were entirely4 > >>bogus and because is set back the development of' > >>UNIX to a point where NT creapt in.  > >  > > M > > As far as I could tell, the motives for creating OSF were mostly distress K > > at the idea that AT&T - still official proprietors of Unix - had taken  O > > a significant ownership position in Sun.  This made other Unix players feel Q > > that the playing field was no longer level, and that they had to do something 
 > > about it.  > >  >  > Ahh Bogus point number 1.  > H > In fact AT&T did not pass any ownership of UNIX to Sun at all, insteadG > Sun was contracted to do a lot of the SVR4 development the results of + > which were all owned by AT&T and not Sun.   = That isn't what he said at all.  He did not say that AT&T had : passed ownership of UNIX to Sun.  He said AT&T had taken a> significant ownership position in Sun.  That means that bought9 a lot of Sun stock.  I don't know if this is true or not. ? But that doesn't matter.  What matters is that you consistently ; argue by misrepresenting other people's statements and then ; deny your own misrepresentation.  This either means you are - an idiot, careless or deliberately deceptive.    Go away, troll!    --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 18:47:09 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> G Subject: RE: Big Blue - Caught Red Handed, stealing KGPSA HBA info????? 9 Message-ID: <NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECIOEIBDEAA.tom@kednos.com>      -----Original Message-----5   From: Bill Gunshannon [mailto:bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu] &   Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 1:16 PM   To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com I   Subject: Re: Big Blue - Caught Red Handed, stealing KGPSA HBA info?????     ;   In article <NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECIGEHKDEAA.tom@kednos.com>, (   	"Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:   >    > 9   >   From: Bill Gunshannon [mailto:bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu]    > B   >   Strike 2.  RSTS is still commercially available.  And before   you strikeA   >   out completely, so is RT-11.  None of the really well known 
   PDP-11 OSes ;   >   have been EOLed yet. Now, IAS and Ultrix-11 are toast    (although some of I   >   us have been having fun revivng Ultrix-11 and Y2King where needed.)    > @   > If I get ambitious, I'll power Ultrix and make up a PL/I kit   for hobbyists 3   > so you can have a real compiler to play with:-)    >   G   You have PL/I for the PDP-11.  Now that would be cool.  If you do get H   the chance to do this be sure to announce it over in the PDP-11 groups3   too.  I don't imagine most of them hang out here.   ( No, not for the 11, just the Ultrix/Mips     bill     --L   Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesF   bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.   University of Scranton   |@   Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>     --- (   Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.<   Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A   Version: 6.0.680 / Virus Database: 442 - Release Date: 5/9/2004    --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).? Version: 6.0.680 / Virus Database: 442 - Release Date: 5/9/2004    ------------------------------   Date: 21 May 2004 02:03:50 GMT, From: bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)G Subject: Re: Big Blue - Caught Red Handed, stealing KGPSA HBA info????? * Message-ID: <2h56c6F96cssU1@uni-berlin.de>  9 In article <NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECIOEIBDEAA.tom@kednos.com>, & 	"Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes: > * > No, not for the 11, just the Ultrix/Mips  D Sorry.  You mentioned it right after I mentioned Ultrix-11 I assumed that was the Ultrix you meant.   :-(    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 18:01:23 GMT ) From: "Rick Barry" <richard.barry@hp.com> " Subject: Re: CSWS 2.0 Source Code?1 Message-ID: <Tn6rc.1975$5x3.467@news.cpqcorp.net>   L CSWS 2.0 is next on my list. I hope to roll-up a source code kit in the next, couple of weeks and post it on our web site.  
 Rick Barry OpenVMS System Software Group  Hewlett Packard Company 
 Nashua, NH  2 "Alan Antonuk" <antonuka@msu.edu> wrote in message7 news:c46df05c.0405191004.1f81e307@posting.google.com... @ > I saw a thread on this about 5 months ago in January and I wasH > wondering if anything has changed. Does anyone know if HP has released% > the source code for their CSWS 2.0?  >  > I go to the download page H > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/ips/apache/csws_source.html7 > and they only seem to have the version 1.3 available.    ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 17:59:01 +0000 (UTC)  From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk" Subject: Re: CSWS 2.0 Source Code?) Message-ID: <c8irl4$88o$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>   ] In article <Tn6rc.1975$5x3.467@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Rick Barry" <richard.barry@hp.com> writes: M >CSWS 2.0 is next on my list. I hope to roll-up a source code kit in the next - >couple of weeks and post it on our web site.  >  Rick,   M can HP put some resource into sorting out SWS 2.0 - the stream-lf restriction  and other problems.   M I and many other VMS users have been testing out Process software's anti-spam > product which has a web gui interface for users to control it.3 This works fine on OSU, WASD, CSWS1.3 and Purveyor. O However SWS2.0 has posed so many problems that Process are now recommending not  using it :-    "   E Sounds to me like you should rethink your decision to deploy SWS V2.0 ? when it's apparently not ready for primetime (at least on VMS).   D Everything works fine with SWS V1.3, Purveyor, OSU, and WASD.  WhileF there'd be no harm in providing the files in Stream-LF (other than theE hassle for me to make sure they always stay that way), it sounds like > a kludge to work around one of several problems with SWS V2.0.  D Being on vacation, I have not pursued the SWS V2.0 issues, but I canC say that since we've never tested with it and based on the problems ? you, Marc, and others have reported, I can't see us agreeing to B support that configuration when SWS obviously has problems.  TheseA issues are pretty clearly problems with SWS V2.0 since everything E appears to work fine with the four other servers, including SWS V1.3. D Jumping through various kludge-hoops to workaround problems with SWS V2.0 is counter-productive.    Going back on vacation now....   Hunter ------9 Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/  "    Note.   K Although the above talks about providing the files in stream-lf format that O isn't the real problem since problems occur once users convert all the supplied  files to stream-lf format.    O I'm using OSU and CSWS 1.3 at the moment so this doesn't directly affect me but  it does affect others.    
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University     >Rick Barry  >OpenVMS System Software Group >Hewlett Packard Company >Nashua, NH  > 3 >"Alan Antonuk" <antonuka@msu.edu> wrote in message 8 >news:c46df05c.0405191004.1f81e307@posting.google.com...A >> I saw a thread on this about 5 months ago in January and I was I >> wondering if anything has changed. Does anyone know if HP has released & >> the source code for their CSWS 2.0? >> >> I go to the download pageI >> http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/ips/apache/csws_source.html 8 >> and they only seem to have the version 1.3 available. >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 21:31:52 -0500 @ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>" Subject: Re: CSWS 2.0 Source Code?6 Message-ID: <40AD6A18.D7C7D728@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:  > _ > In article <Tn6rc.1975$5x3.467@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Rick Barry" <richard.barry@hp.com> writes: O > >CSWS 2.0 is next on my list. I hope to roll-up a source code kit in the next / > >couple of weeks and post it on our web site.  > >  > Rick,  > O > can HP put some resource into sorting out SWS 2.0 - the stream-lf restriction  > and other problems.  > O > I and many other VMS users have been testing out Process software's anti-spam @ > product which has a web gui interface for users to control it.5 > This works fine on OSU, WASD, CSWS1.3 and Purveyor. Q > However SWS2.0 has posed so many problems that Process are now recommending not 
 > using it :-  > [snip]  
 Um, David?  C Since John W.'s passing, we've a fair few folks in our court in the E OpenVMS arena. Advocates are dear, indeed. Best not to sully Hunter's  rep. with the OpenVMS folks.   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 13:41:13 -0400 + From: Steve Lionel <Steve.Lionel@intel.com>   Subject: Re: Dave Cutler and VMS8 Message-ID: <73rpa0l71qccv33mbm2gj6d2b9g725lncm@4ax.com>  8 On Thu, 20 May 2004 17:07:57 GMT, "Roert G. Schaffrath" <rschaffrath@yahoo.com> wrote:    >This article is as good as any: > E >http://www.winntmag.com/Articles/Index.cfm?IssueID=97&ArticleID=4494  >  >Robert  >  >JF Mezei wrote: >>  F >> Can someone post an authoritative answer to the following question: >>  & >> What exactly did Cutler do to VMS ?  K The article leaves out quite a bit, such as Cutler's creation of the VAXELN L real-time and embedded OS for VAX systems.  This preceded his work on PRISM.I One can see many more similarities between NT and VAXELN than NT and VMS. 4 Before that, he led the VAX PL/I and VAX C projects.  L Cutler left VMS in 1980 before version 2.0 was released, and was not further% involved with the VMS OS development.    Steve    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 21:42:56 +0200   From: "Dr. Dweeb" <dr@dweeb.com>  Subject: Re: Dave Cutler and VMS- Message-ID: <c8j1o1$22go$1@news.cybercity.dk>    Steve Lionel wrote: : > On Thu, 20 May 2004 17:07:57 GMT, "Roert G. Schaffrath"  > <rschaffrath@yahoo.com> wrote: > " >> This article is as good as any: >>G >> http://www.winntmag.com/Articles/Index.cfm?IssueID=97&ArticleID=4494  >>	 >> Robert  >> >> JF Mezei wrote: >>> G >>> Can someone post an authoritative answer to the following question:  >>> ' >>> What exactly did Cutler do to VMS ?  > F > The article leaves out quite a bit, such as Cutler's creation of theF > VAXELN real-time and embedded OS for VAX systems.  This preceded hisB > work on PRISM. One can see many more similarities between NT andD > VAXELN than NT and VMS. Before that, he led the VAX PL/I and VAX C > projects.  > F > Cutler left VMS in 1980 before version 2.0 was released, and was not/ > further involved with the VMS OS development.  >    The PASCAL compiler as well ??  	 Dr. Dweeb  > Steve    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 17:01:14 -0400 + From: Steve Lionel <Steve.Lionel@intel.com>   Subject: Re: Dave Cutler and VMS8 Message-ID: <no6qa01qo5lkco0hhc68oeu8egb32enouo@4ax.com>  E On Thu, 20 May 2004 21:42:56 +0200, "Dr. Dweeb" <dr@dweeb.com> wrote:   G >> Cutler left VMS in 1980 before version 2.0 was released, and was not 0 >> further involved with the VMS OS development. >  >The PASCAL compiler as well ??   5 Cutler had nothing whatsoever to do with VAX Pascal.    M  VAX Pascal V1 was written by the University of Washington.  V2 and later was J a completely new implementation by DEC.  I designed and wrote the run-timeK library for V2.  The code generator was unique among VAX compilers as well, L based on research done at CMU. (The C, PL/I and, later, Ada compilers shared> the "VAX Code Generator" developed by Cutler's compiler team.)   Steve    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 00:58:55 +0100 & From: Elliott Roper <nospam@yrl.co.uk>  Subject: Re: Dave Cutler and VMS1 Message-ID: <210520040058554259%nospam@yrl.co.uk>   E In article <no6qa01qo5lkco0hhc68oeu8egb32enouo@4ax.com>, Steve Lionel  <Steve.Lionel@intel.com> wrote:   G > On Thu, 20 May 2004 21:42:56 +0200, "Dr. Dweeb" <dr@dweeb.com> wrote:  > I > >> Cutler left VMS in 1980 before version 2.0 was released, and was not 2 > >> further involved with the VMS OS development. > > ! > >The PASCAL compiler as well ??   F Could that confusion have arisen from PDP-11 Micropower Pascal? It wasA an ancestor to VAXELN which *was* Cutler's. Micropower Pascal was G actually an OS. Or at least a real-time runtime. With a confusing name.  > 7 > Cutler had nothing whatsoever to do with VAX Pascal.   > O >  VAX Pascal V1 was written by the University of Washington.  V2 and later was L > a completely new implementation by DEC.  I designed and wrote the run-timeM > library for V2.  The code generator was unique among VAX compilers as well, N > based on research done at CMU. (The C, PL/I and, later, Ada compilers shared@ > the "VAX Code Generator" developed by Cutler's compiler team.) >  > Steve    --  C I thought I would be the last on earth to mangle my e-mail address.  fsnospam$elliott$$   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 21:29:25 -0400 * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>  Subject: Re: Dave Cutler and VMS2 Message-ID: <WY-dnVoZacnHxjDdRVn-jA@metrocast.net>  3 "JF Mezei" <jfmezei@vaxination.ca> wrote in message : news:f7ecd96fba880e2ee45614e80646853a@news.teranews.com...E > Can someone post an authoritative answer to the following question:  > % > What exactly did Cutler do to VMS ?  > H > In other words, from the baggage he brought with him to Microsoft, how muchL > was *his* and how much was just stuff he learned during the time he worked > with other engineers on VMS ?  > A > At exactly what version of VMS did Cutler start and end his VMS 
 involvement ?  > J > I am a bit tired of seeing this one individual portrayed as some form of god = > without knowing any of the specifics of what he did to VMS.   E Well, some of the rest of us are a bit tired of having addressed such I questions from you so many times over the years.  Since you're apparently < ineducable, answering again now has somewhat limited appeal.  K But I'll fill in a couple of details that you'll doubtless promptly forget, F because of your stubborn refusal to believe that Cutler was absolutelyI pivotal to the creation of VMS.  To start with, the VMS kernel is modeled L very clearly on the RSX-11M kernel that Cutler was the main creator of (VMS,J of course, had major extensions, but the basic model is very similar).  SoK is the NT kernel, though, again, with some changes (the fact that NT wasn't J nearly as complete a multi-user environment as VMS and even RSX were tendsK to support the idea that it took a lot from VAXeln, a system with which I'm C not familiar).  Cutler personally wrote most of the RSX kernel.  He L personally wrote major portions of the VMS kernel, and personally supervised6 virtually every line of kernel code written by others.  E Save for kernel support for file systems, in which Cutler wasn't that I interested.  Andy Goldstein created ODS-2 for VMS as he had created ODS-1 D for RSX, and Ed Marison was the architect of RMS-32 (and before thatH RMS-11).  Cutler wasn't heavily involved in the NT file system, either -J which owes relatively little to VMS save for Cutler's basic I/O model that governs most system I/O.  J Cutler left VMS prior to the development of clusters, and IIRC wasn't thatK big a fan of clustering.  So NT didn't reap that benefit.  And of course NT L carries incredible amounts of non-kernel system baggage much of which CutlerI probably had no hand in at all (for that matter, so does VMS) - though he C was very hands-on in managing the first release of both NT and VMS, K including much of that non-kernel software (which later grew to far greater H size without his supervision).  But the design of the NT kernel was pureJ Cutler, just as the design of the VMS and RSX kernels were - and while theK VMS kernel also owes significant debts to others in many of its details and H to a few in more substantial design aspects, it was Cutler who pulled it+ together both technically and managerially.    - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 18:50:17 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>   Subject: RE: Dave Cutler and VMS9 Message-ID: <NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECICEICDEAA.tom@kednos.com>      -----Original Message-----/   From: Elliott Roper [mailto:nospam@yrl.co.uk] &   Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 4:59 PM   To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com "   Subject: Re: Dave Cutler and VMS      G   In article <no6qa01qo5lkco0hhc68oeu8egb32enouo@4ax.com>, Steve Lionel !   <Steve.Lionel@intel.com> wrote:    I   > On Thu, 20 May 2004 21:42:56 +0200, "Dr. Dweeb" <dr@dweeb.com> wrote:    > K   > >> Cutler left VMS in 1980 before version 2.0 was released, and was not 4   > >> further involved with the VMS OS development.   > > #   > >The PASCAL compiler as well ??    H   Could that confusion have arisen from PDP-11 Micropower Pascal? It wasC   an ancestor to VAXELN which *was* Cutler's. Micropower Pascal was I   actually an OS. Or at least a real-time runtime. With a confusing name.    > 9   > Cutler had nothing whatsoever to do with VAX Pascal.     > D   >  VAX Pascal V1 was written by the University of Washington.  V2    and later was B   > a completely new implementation by DEC.  I designed and wrote    the run-time=   > library for V2.  The code generator was unique among VAX     compilers as well,@   > based on research done at CMU. (The C, PL/I and, later, Ada    compilers sharedB   > the "VAX Code Generator" developed by Cutler's compiler team.)  D Not sure, but I think the team in Reading added Coral and Pearl (not7 to be confused with Perl the scripting language) to VCG      > 	   > Steve       --  E   I thought I would be the last on earth to mangle my e-mail address.    fsnospam$elliott$$      --- (   Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.<   Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A   Version: 6.0.680 / Virus Database: 442 - Release Date: 5/9/2004     --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).? Version: 6.0.680 / Virus Database: 442 - Release Date: 5/9/2004    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 02:06:23 GMT - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>   Subject: Re: Dave Cutler and VMS@ Message-ID: <018445aabb21dba5deef81a03aeb6da6@news.teranews.com>   Steve Lionel wrote: G > >http://www.winntmag.com/Articles/Index.cfm?IssueID=97&ArticleID=4494   N > Cutler left VMS in 1980 before version 2.0 was released, and was not further' > involved with the VMS OS development.   L That article alludes to the fact that Cutler left Digital at VMS 5.0, makingI it look to the microsoft weenies that Cutler was still involved with VMS.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 22:23:14 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>   Subject: RE: Dave Cutler and VMS9 Message-ID: <NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECIMEIFDEAA.tom@kednos.com>   B We licensed PL/I and the underlying compiler technology to digitalC in January 1978, Cutler had a team that set about to build the code H generator, vcg, I think it took them about three years, I reviewed theirC book before publication in spring of 1982.  So I am not sure, but I ; don't think Dave had a lot to do with VMS after early 1978.      -----Original Message-----6   From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com]&   Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 7:06 PM   To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com "   Subject: Re: Dave Cutler and VMS         Steve Lionel wrote: I   > >http://www.winntmag.com/Articles/Index.cfm?IssueID=97&ArticleID=4494    A   > Cutler left VMS in 1980 before version 2.0 was released, and     was not further )   > involved with the VMS OS development.    C   That article alludes to the fact that Cutler left Digital at VMS  
   5.0, making K   it look to the microsoft weenies that Cutler was still involved with VMS.       --- (   Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.<   Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A   Version: 6.0.680 / Virus Database: 442 - Release Date: 5/9/2004     --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).? Version: 6.0.680 / Virus Database: 442 - Release Date: 5/9/2004    ------------------------------    Date: 20 May 2004 11:38:14 -0700' From: ultrajoe@spamcop.net (Joe Sewell) ? Subject: DtWsm function to detect occupation of all workspaces? = Message-ID: <a55b951e.0405201038.51aa2979@posting.google.com>   F Is there a routine in CDE 1.2 (DECwindows/Motif 1.3-1) that will let aF program detect whether it's been set to occupy *all* workspaces (usingA "Occupy All Workspaces" or DtWsmOccupyAllWorkspaces) vs. manually D occupying all existing workspaces?  (The difference is an Occupy AllB Workspaces or equivalent will make the window occupy newly-createdC workspaces, whereas occupying each workspace that exists does not.)    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 18:05:57 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")2 Subject: Re: Eastern Washington University project6 Message-ID: <00A321E2.E3BFC748@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  e In article <af0dc2ea.0405200720.5fa08285@posting.google.com>, whohe@whoever.com (DL Phillips) writes: x >williamwebb@openvms-rocks.com (William Webb) wrote in message news:<bf98c417.0405190828.5fe9be8a@posting.google.com>.... >>From: DL Phillips [mailto:whohe@whoever.com] >> >  ! >> > Your search - openvms OR vms D >> > site:http://www.sanface.com/txt2pdfPRO.html - did not match any >> > documents.  >> >   >>  C >> DL- go to Sanface's main page and put VMS into the search box.    >>  
 >> 8 hits. >>  	 >> WWWebb  > D >Thanks William. I'll have to read more about it then. After a quickE >scan it doesn't look like what I'm after, though. We don't use PERL5 ? >and we don't run X. I've been half-heartedly looking for a VMS : >alterative to the free-bee Acrobat PDF-Writer for Wintel.  J There's a freebie Acrobat PDF-Writer?  I thought you had to pay for Writer$ and the only freebie was the reader.   > E >But, I haven't read everything about the txt2pdf gizmo yet. I'd need G >something that would look like a "print-to-file" printer to the user & G >application. Since our clients are using the free Acrobat product now, F >any VMS based PDF-writer would have to be competitively priced and we; >can't invest a lot of time in making something else work:-   O If you can direct your users to a VMS queue, you can use the free symbiont that N lets you call out and do anything you want to the submitted file, then use theO free -pdfwrite option on ghostscript to the file.  So that's not a lot of money " (zero) and not too hard to set up.  K But I'm not sure it's a win if you've really got a legal free solution that  already works.     -- Alan    --  O =============================================================================== 0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056 M  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025 O ===============================================================================    ------------------------------    Date: 20 May 2004 11:49:33 -07002 From: williamwebb@openvms-rocks.com (William Webb)2 Subject: Re: Eastern Washington University project= Message-ID: <bf98c417.0405201049.2aba94bb@posting.google.com>   j whohe@whoever.com (DL Phillips) wrote in message news:<af0dc2ea.0405190813.6cea8a68@posting.google.com>...p > mail@sanface.com (SANFACE Software) wrote in message news:<8c682947.0405180752.3768e918@posting.google.com>...I > > As budget restrictions and resources grow tighter, Eastern Washington 9 > > http://www.ewu.edu/ University has chosen Txt2pdf-PRO ? > > http://www.sanface.com/txt2pdfPRO.html as a tool to enhance % > > productivity and reduce expenses.  >  >  > From Google: >  > Your search - openvms OR vmsA > site:http://www.sanface.com/txt2pdfPRO.html - did not match any  > documents.   DL, contact me offline.    Remember VMS = WNT?     < Well here's the "WNT" version of the email address to use:   xxfcc@fnbjm.vtqt.hpw   ------------------------------    Date: 20 May 2004 14:54:20 -0700% From: whohe@whoever.com (DL Phillips) 2 Subject: Re: Eastern Washington University project= Message-ID: <af0dc2ea.0405201354.5fc6b030@posting.google.com>    winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") wrote in message news:<00A321E2.E3BFC748@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>...g > In article <af0dc2ea.0405200720.5fa08285@posting.google.com>, whohe@whoever.com (DL Phillips) writes: z > >williamwebb@openvms-rocks.com (William Webb) wrote in message news:<bf98c417.0405190828.5fe9be8a@posting.google.com>...0 > >>From: DL Phillips [mailto:whohe@whoever.com] > >> >  # > >> > Your search - openvms OR vms F > >> > site:http://www.sanface.com/txt2pdfPRO.html - did not match any > >> > documents.  > >> >   > >>  E > >> DL- go to Sanface's main page and put VMS into the search box.    > >>   > >> 8 hits. > >>   > >> WWWebb  > > F > >Thanks William. I'll have to read more about it then. After a quickG > >scan it doesn't look like what I'm after, though. We don't use PERL5 A > >and we don't run X. I've been half-heartedly looking for a VMS < > >alterative to the free-bee Acrobat PDF-Writer for Wintel. > L > There's a freebie Acrobat PDF-Writer?  I thought you had to pay for Writer& > and the only freebie was the reader. >   D Well, tracing it back I find that I got it "free" on a CD bundled inB as an "extra" with either a scanner or printer that I bought years? ago. Other than Adobe's standard blanket licensing there was no E restriction that I found as to its use. I can't resell it, of course. < It really wasn't specific to any one product that I can see.  ? It's called PDFWriter and it's still being bundled with some of > Adobe's things as far as I can tell. I'm sure that there was aC download available at one time but I don't find it now. It's just a B print driver that takes whatever you "print" to it and packages itE into a PDF file. It usually produces lower resolution than Distiller.   ? I guess I'll expect the Adobe Police to be knocking at my door,  then;-)    > > G > >But, I haven't read everything about the txt2pdf gizmo yet. I'd need I > >something that would look like a "print-to-file" printer to the user & I > >application. Since our clients are using the free Acrobat product now, H > >any VMS based PDF-writer would have to be competitively priced and we= > >can't invest a lot of time in making something else work:-  > Q > If you can direct your users to a VMS queue, you can use the free symbiont that P > lets you call out and do anything you want to the submitted file, then use theQ > free -pdfwrite option on ghostscript to the file.  So that's not a lot of money $ > (zero) and not too hard to set up. > M > But I'm not sure it's a win if you've really got a legal free solution that  > already works.   > 	 > -- Alan   E It might be worth digging into someday. It looks like the PDFWriter I C have won't move up to XP or W2K-. We've been using it on W98 and it B works for our needs. I guess as long as I can boot a 98 machine, IE won't worry about it. Or, maybe I'll find a new one packaged with the  next scanner or printer I buy?   Thanks for the reply.     Doug    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 21:28:16 -0500 @ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>6 Subject: Re: Hobbyist Licensing? (was: Re: netbooting)6 Message-ID: <40AD6940.AC03AA31@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   Michael Grunditz wrote:  >  > > G > >   There are two sets of licenses required, one for the Alpha or VAX G > >   system itself (the base license), and one set of licenses for the E > >   layered products.  It is almost certain that you are missing or 7 > >   you have not loaded the layered product licenses.  > > G > >   I am improving the cross-references for and the visibility of the D > >   associated hobbyist licensing text present in the OpenVMS FAQ. > > I > >   I'll see if I can find someone that can update the hobbyist website F > >   webpage and/or hobbyist website FAQ, as this confusion is fairly
 > >   common.  > ( > I have installed all layered licenses.  G Then you may be missing the OpenVMS operating system license, for which G you register separately. You'll need your "DECUS" number and the serial D number from the back of your system box. Choose VAX and/or ALpha, as appropriate.   http://www.openvmshobbyist.org/ 8 (The name resolves, but the site seems down just now...)   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 21:26:23 -0600 " From: GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com>" Subject: Re: J F kicked out by ISP0 Message-ID: <St-dnfAiMsE76zDd4p2dnA@bresnan.com>   Nomen Nescio wrote:   5 Hey, Nomen... if you want someone to mess with go to  / comp.os.linux.advocacy... some nut by Kobayshi.    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 03:33:11 GMT & From: "~ Darrell ~" <Darrell@here.duh>" Subject: Re: J F kicked out by ISPG Message-ID: <XLerc.85098$Zxc.9707@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   K "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> wrote in message 0 news:40AD6CAC.CD4D7F5F@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net... > Nomen Nescio wrote:  > G > How can we get the ballless anon poster to have his ISP cancel him???   4 I see more posts here then I have ever seen from JF.   ------------------------------    Date: 20 May 2004 11:04:08 -0700' From: twilliams@gscc.com (Tom Williams)  Subject: KSTACKPAGES= Message-ID: <770c7f9b.0405201004.72dfcdf2@posting.google.com>   @ One of our systems (in a cluster) crashed a few weeks ago with aE CPUSPINWAIT error. HP recommended increasing KSTACKPAGES from 1 to 4. C What's the impact of increasing this parameter? I have 30 different E systems, some in clusters, and some not.  Is there a way to determine A if a system is a good candidate for increasing this parameter?  I D don't want to do a global change if I don't have to.  Thanks for any input you can provide.   Tom Williams   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 20:26:44 +0000 (UTC) 6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) Subject: Re: KSTACKPAGES1 Message-ID: <newscache$nl41yh$9kk1$1@news.sil.at>   g In article <770c7f9b.0405201004.72dfcdf2@posting.google.com>, twilliams@gscc.com (Tom Williams) writes: A >One of our systems (in a cluster) crashed a few weeks ago with a F >CPUSPINWAIT error. HP recommended increasing KSTACKPAGES from 1 to 4.D >What's the impact of increasing this parameter? I have 30 differentF >systems, some in clusters, and some not.  Is there a way to determineB >if a system is a good candidate for increasing this parameter?  IE >don't want to do a global change if I don't have to.  Thanks for any  >input you can provide.    1) It is Alpha Only  2) Why do you still have 1 ?4 I have at least 2 since about 1995 (DECnet-OSI V6.2)E 3) I currently see no problem with increasing this parameter if it is C not too high (up to 4 - I heard of crashes with _way_ larger values $ in or about the V7.2/V7.3 timeframe)   --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 21:22:36 -0500 @ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>) Subject: Re: LAT & Hobbyist VMS questions 5 Message-ID: <40AD67EC.AF5AC9A@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>    Neil Cherry wrote: > > > On Wed, 19 May 2004 20:46:03 -0500, David J. Dachtera wrote:% > > (subject line spelling corrected)  > G > Oh, thanks, I always seem to get that one wrong. You'd think I'd know  > better by now. > K > > If your node offers no services, I would also expect to see a zero here J > > (how can VMS calculate dynamic rating for services that don't exist?). > F > Turns out I needed lpc set node /state=on. Strange, I don't remember* > seeing that in the startup file for LAT. > H > If I want to add various service names can I use one port or do I haveF > to use multiple ports for multiple names (like p1 p2 etc.)? I'm justB > fooling around with the VMS and trying to learn bits and pieces.	 > Thanks.   F You can probably draw parallels between the relationship o TCP/IP port= numbers and listeners, and that of LAT ports/servcies and the ( applications that behind those services.  E The OpenVMS FAQ has links to lots of stuff, not the least of which is ( the on-line documentation. Worth a read.   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 22:00:13 +0100 ) From: Tony Arnold <tony.arnold@man.ac.uk>  Subject: Re: Minimum GBLPAGES.. * Message-ID: <2h4kitF8rr69U1@uni-berlin.de>   Charlie Hammond wrote:  5 > In article <ws1rc.1935$n83.1295@news.cpqcorp.net>,  . > "Rahul" <rahul.kulkarni@digital.com> writes: >  > I >>  Could anybody tell me the procedure to calculate the minimum GBLPAGES  >>required for a product?... >  > # > This is mostly trial-and-error.    > 2 > Set GBLPAGES high enough for the product to run.A > Observe GBLPAGES in us.  e.g. using f$getsyi("USED_GBLPAGCNT"). @ > Stop the product; observe GBLPAGES again; take the difference.* > Try the resul and perhaps mung it a bit.  D I tend to use f$getsyi("free_gblpages") on a running system as this ' tells me how close to running out I am.    Tony.  --  F Tony Arnold, Deputy to the Head of COS Division, Manchester Computing,: University of Manchester, Oxford Road, Manchester M13 9PL.F T: +44 (0)161 275 6093, F: +44 (0)870 136 1004, M: +44 (0)773 330 0039E E-mail: tony.arnold@man.ac.uk, Home: http://www.man.ac.uk/Tony.Arnold    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 00:55:55 +0100 < From: "Alex Daniels" <AlexNOSPAMTHANKSDaniels@themail.co.uk>; Subject: Re: TCPIP Services IMAP server - reloading headers * Message-ID: <c8jghu$2si0$1@news.wplus.net>  > "Michael Austin" <maustin@firstdbasource.com> wrote in message, news:40ABFB80.595319EC@firstdbasource.com... > JF Mezei wrote:  > * > > > Mark Iline - Info-VAX account wrote:I > > > I'm not actually sure whether it's OXP/OE or the IMAP server that's G > > > governing the behaviour. It's not impossible that the client *is* ( > > > downloading the headers each time, > > K > > the IMAP server is a hog on VMS. It needs to calculate message size for  each= > > header because that information is not stored in VMSmail.  > > 1 > > If you have large messages, it takes forever.  > C > JF.. I guess it also depends on your CPU??  I have a little 2100A  (supposed to7 > be 2x275.. at last boot it was only reporting 1 cpu )  <SNIP>  6 Laugh, not often I hear someone call 2100A's 'little'.  L This is a hobbyist box right? I have a number of spare CPU and memory boards< for 2100/2100A's, let me know if you need anything specific.   Alex   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 04:10:53 GMT - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> * Subject: Vaxstation 3100 and graphics card@ Message-ID: <3a505c847b0c29f957888aa1ff755887@news.teranews.com>  I If one installs the SPX (WS01X) graphics card on a vaxstation 3100-30, is L there a need to rerun  autogen ? Or does the graphics card come with all its2 own resources (such as screen bitmap memory) etc ?  M Also, is there a way through software/sysgen to disable the graphics card and C have the built-in monochrome card take over (either at boot time or U dynamically) ? (for istance to test how x software performs on a monochrome display).   N Also, something I don't quite understand. What does "8 plane" actually mean ?   L Also, what sort of services does the graphics card provide to VMS ? does VMSI just use the graphic card's memory to just dump bitmaps, or does the card N provide smart services such as functions to draw lines, boxes, fill areas with a colour pattern etc ?  N Does the graphic card use specific drivers at the VMS level ? (if so, which ?)   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 21:00:32 -0500 @ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>2 Subject: Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised6 Message-ID: <40AD62C0.F15324FB@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   Karsten Nyblad wrote:  > M > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> wrote in message 2 > news:40AC0FC6.982A2117@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net... > > Andrew Harrison wrote: > > >  > > > David J. Dachtera wrote: > > > & > > > > I have to agree with Bob here. > > > > ' > > > > The _CUSTOMER_ is always right.  > > > > A > > > In an ideal world that would be the case, but is would be a = > > > foolish customer who took the view that the vendor will = > > > always follow a course of action most beneficial to all  > > > their customers. > > G > > ...and an even more foolish vendor who took the view that vendor is $ > > right and the customer is wrong. > K > If only the world was as simple as "the customer is always right" or "the ' > vendor is always right."  It is not.     Well, think about it:    Either: & A. A customer wants a vendor's product$ B. A vendor wants a customer's money  G Whatever either wants is "the gold" when you apply "the gold rule": who  has the gold sets the rules.   It REALLY is that simple!   % Again, and as always, prove me wrong.   ( > HP has millions of customers and there' > is no way HP can please all of them.    . Really? How did "they" become customers, then?  & > HP has to chose a strategi and go byK > that.  Then HP will have to accept that that strategi does not match some L > its potential customers whishes, and thus these potential customers do not > become customers of HP.   ; Well, that's one thing: choosing which prospects to pursue.   H How does that justify pissing off existing customers? (Hint: it doesn't)  / > Any company will have to do that.  It is also K > called either "trying to do what you are good at doing" or "focusing your  > company at it strengths."   C We know VMS's strengths. Hp apparently does not, and those who went . before them have not known for some years now.  N > In my view "the customer is always right" does not mean that the customer isJ > always right.  It means that you should avoid telling the customers that$ > they are wrong even when they are.  H Hence, the wording: no matter how you may feel, the rule you live by is,H "the customer is always right, even when he's not". Two other rules also apply here:    1. The Gold Rule Who has the gold sets the rules    2. The Law of Supply and Demand @ The customer demands it, you supply it (then bill them for it!).  < > > > Hence to need to do due dilligence on what you vendors% > > > long term intentions really are  > > L > > ...unless YOUR strategic plan doesn't necessarily depend on the vendor's8 > > future plans, but rather on their current offerings. > > K > > How many mission-critical VAXes will still be running when you and I no  > > longer are?  > N > So you are saying that it is wise to select a computer were there may not beJ > any upgrade path in the short future.  Pardon me, but what have you been
 > smoking?  E Shredded 9-track tapes of OpenVMS distro.'s rolled in old License PAK 
 certificates.   
 Want some?  K > What will you do if the system becomes a success and it cannot handle the  > load?   F If you choose an undersized system in that situation, you deserve what you get. Plan ahead.  ? > What will you do if you need new features that are beyond the % > capacity of your current hardware?    C Think about that one, and the question answers itself: how do folks C traditionally solve such problems when they can't dump the existing 8 system for whatever reason, but still need new features?  ( > What will you do if the vendor choosesL > not to support the hardware at all, i.e., not even not to make even simple > fixes?    See my earlier comments re: VAX.   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 21:10:48 -0500 @ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>2 Subject: Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised6 Message-ID: <40AD6528.3BCB634F@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   JF Mezei wrote:  >  > Karsten Nyblad wrote: P > > vendor is always right."  It is not.  HP has millions of customers and thereN > > is no way HP can please all of them.  HP has to chose a strategi and go by	 > > that.  > O > There was an article recently that put the number 750 as number of enterprise N > customers HP deals directly with. I have no idea if this is worldwide or USA1 > only. But it certaintly insn't in the millions.   9 I wish we could know how authoritative that info. may be.   O > The problem with VMS is that unlike wintel crap, it isn't available in shrink L > wrapped versions you can buy at your local electronics store. So one wouldN > normally go to HP if one were interested in VMS, but HP doesn't want to dealM > with small/medium customers and only wants the really big ones. So the poor O > customer must try to find some dinausor reseller/VAR he has never dealt with.   / You see, folks? I'm not only one who sees this.   M > This means that HP must not only market VMS to the public at large to reach O > the untapped potential customers, but it must also agressively facilitate the O > sales of VMS through any and all channels, not just a few select resellers. I J > have heard many stories of how it is difficult for a company to become a  > reseller of VMS/Alpha systems.  E ...which is why I promote the idea of 2nd-tier resellers who, even if D acting as independents, order from the "certified" resellers, do theD marketing, make the sales and build the relationships with customers% that will support and revive OpenVMS.   C I understand that model has some issues, especially in the areas of 7 mark-ups and profit margins. I'm still working on that.   J > I have often made the suggestion that Sue should have an 1-800-GREAT-VMSK > number that anyone could use to bypass all the barriers that HP offers to N > prospective VMS clients and get info from the horse's mouth directly and SueK > could then direct those prospective customers to their local VMS-friendly M > reseller (or in rare cases, a local HP employee who actually not only knows M > VMS but who is actually allowed to find prices and talk sales).  This would L > tie in perfectly with the ambassador programme since Sue would then have aN > direct line of information from the "public" and could direct ambassadors to! > fix problems the "public" find.   F Well, I would say that the group I propose should have that number, orF whatever is available (1-800-673-6867 (800-OPENVMS) is not available),G negotiate with Mark Levy for the use of openvms.com, and should just do D what hp will not. If what we say/believe is true, it'll fly. If not,- we'll learn a valuable (if expensive) lesson.    Calling all brass cajones...   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 23:01:19 -0400 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> 2 Subject: Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised, Message-ID: <76SdnUvqS6af7DDd4p2dnA@igs.net>  K "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> wrote in message 0 news:40AD62C0.F15324FB@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net... > Karsten Nyblad wrote:  > > G > > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> wrote in  message 4 > > news:40AC0FC6.982A2117@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net... > > > Andrew Harrison wrote: > > > >   > > > > David J. Dachtera wrote: > > > > ( > > > > > I have to agree with Bob here.	 > > > > > ) > > > > > The _CUSTOMER_ is always right. 	 > > > > > C > > > > In an ideal world that would be the case, but is would be a ? > > > > foolish customer who took the view that the vendor will ? > > > > always follow a course of action most beneficial to all  > > > > their customers. > > > I > > > ...and an even more foolish vendor who took the view that vendor is & > > > right and the customer is wrong. > > H > > If only the world was as simple as "the customer is always right" or "the( > > vendor is always right."  It is not. >  > Well, think about it:  > 	 > Either: ( > A. A customer wants a vendor's product& > B. A vendor wants a customer's money > I > Whatever either wants is "the gold" when you apply "the gold rule": who  > has the gold sets the rules. >  > It REALLY is that simple!  > ' > Again, and as always, prove me wrong.  > * > > HP has millions of customers and there( > > is no way HP can please all of them. > 0 > Really? How did "they" become customers, then? > ( > > HP has to chose a strategi and go byH > > that.  Then HP will have to accept that that strategi does not match someJ > > its potential customers whishes, and thus these potential customers do not  > > become customers of HP.  > = > Well, that's one thing: choosing which prospects to pursue.  > J > How does that justify pissing off existing customers? (Hint: it doesn't) > 1 > > Any company will have to do that.  It is also H > > called either "trying to do what you are good at doing" or "focusing your > > company at it strengths."  > E > We know VMS's strengths. Hp apparently does not, and those who went 0 > before them have not known for some years now. > D > > In my view "the customer is always right" does not mean that the customer is L > > always right.  It means that you should avoid telling the customers that& > > they are wrong even when they are. > J > Hence, the wording: no matter how you may feel, the rule you live by is,J > "the customer is always right, even when he's not". Two other rules also
 > apply here:  >  > 1. The Gold Rule! > Who has the gold sets the rules  > ! > 2. The Law of Supply and Demand B > The customer demands it, you supply it (then bill them for it!). > > > > > > Hence to need to do due dilligence on what you vendors' > > > > long term intentions really are  > > > E > > > ...unless YOUR strategic plan doesn't necessarily depend on the  vendor's: > > > future plans, but rather on their current offerings. > > > J > > > How many mission-critical VAXes will still be running when you and I no > > > longer are?  > > I > > So you are saying that it is wise to select a computer were there may  not beL > > any upgrade path in the short future.  Pardon me, but what have you been > > smoking? > G > Shredded 9-track tapes of OpenVMS distro.'s rolled in old License PAK  > certificates.  >  > Want some? > I > > What will you do if the system becomes a success and it cannot handle  the 	 > > load?  > H > If you choose an undersized system in that situation, you deserve what > you get. Plan ahead. > A > > What will you do if you need new features that are beyond the & > > capacity of your current hardware? > E > Think about that one, and the question answers itself: how do folks E > traditionally solve such problems when they can't dump the existing : > system for whatever reason, but still need new features? > * > > What will you do if the vendor choosesG > > not to support the hardware at all, i.e., not even not to make even  simple
 > > fixes? > " > See my earlier comments re: VAX.     Dave,    It's tougher than that....  L No Exchange compatible server on VMS, now no more AV software (EOL announced- for Sophos), no Sybase, no this, no that.....   L Apple is different. They have a small market share but they still advertise.F They differentiate themselves against Windows, unix, & Linux. They areL profitable. They have lots of ISV's. If VMS had even Apple's market share inJ the server space, the profits from that would make HP consider the printer2 division's profits to be but a drop in the bucket.   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 21:14:31 +0000 (UTC) , From: Mikko Putkonen <miputkon@paju.oulu.fi>2 Subject: Re: [OT]:  Maybe SCO is (partially) right* Message-ID: <c8j73n$8nu$1@ousrvr3.oulu.fi>  " John Smith <a@nonymous.com> wrote:N > http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=75&ncid=738&e=9&u=/nf/200405 > 18/tc_nf/24083    > New Book Slams Linux, Torvalds   > Tue May 18, 1:54 PM ET > Jay Wrolstad,  > www.enterprise-linux-it.com   F > A study challenging the origins of Linux states that the open-sourceF > software frequently is taken or adapted from material owned by otherM > companies and individuals. It also directly questions Linus Torvalds' claim  > to be the inventor of Linux.  F Maybe this is not a news anymore, but Tanenbaum has already written an" interesting page about that stuff:  @     "Some Notes on the "Who wrote Linux" Kerfuffle, Release 1.3"  #     http://www.cs.vu.nl/~ast/brown/      -Mikko Putkonen  <miputkon@paju.oulu.fi>    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.280 ************************