1 INFO-VAX	Sun, 23 May 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 284       Contents:$ Re: "Unix-like systems like VAX/VMS"$ Re: "Unix-like systems like VAX/VMS"$ Re: "Unix-like systems like VAX/VMS"	 Blade VAX + CARTS (Chicagoland) LUG meeting 9-June-2004 + CARTS (Chicagoland) LUG meeting 9-June-2004 8 Re: CDE - redirecting complete desktop to another system Re: Dave Cutler and VMS  Re: Dave Cutler and VMS  Re: Dave Cutler and VMS  Re: Here's the 1st ad I've seen - OpenVMS needs it:  The new desktop contender. - Re: Puzzling LIB$SPAWN problem with DEC BASIC  ssh on TCP/IP 5.4  Re: ssh on TCP/IP 5.4  Re: The JF Mezei FAQ - 052004  Re: The JF Mezei FAQ - 052004  Re: The JF Mezei FAQ - 052004  Re: The JF Mezei FAQ - 052004 ) Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 18:05:00 -0400 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> - Subject: Re: "Unix-like systems like VAX/VMS" , Message-ID: <mK2dnQPXFa4MUzLdRVn-sw@igs.net>  7 "Dave Gudewicz" <k9jdk@NOSPAMarrl.net> wrote in message ) news:KjLrc.96501$xw3.5541635@attbi_s04... H > I noticed several people responded to the VMS is UNIX-like article and7 > that's fine.  Now on to the damage control subject...  > L > Trouble is many more eyes will see - and believe - the article and not the4 > correction, if the correction even gets published.  H No kidding. But HP doesn't correct that impression in the first place byH advertising VMS. Please don't say that the ad we've seen in the past dayH constitutes VMS advertising, because it's really an ad for Itanic with a: little operating system on the side (predominantly PH-UX).  K HP needs to VMS-only ads along the theme, "The Serious Operating System For K Serious Business" (c) 2004, John Smith. All Rights Reserved. Until they do, J this and others like it, there will be the twin misconceptions that VMS isI dead and that unix/linux/windows, dos, com, os9, Plan 9 From Outer Space, K and The Attack of The Killer Tomatos, are all better operating systems than  VMS.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 23:09:23 GMT - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> - Subject: Re: "Unix-like systems like VAX/VMS" @ Message-ID: <93b6ea67ccf7a0459c258547a2d87d26@news.teranews.com>   John Smith wrote: M > HP needs to VMS-only ads along the theme, "The Serious Operating System For > > Serious Business" (c) 2004, John Smith. All Rights Reserved.  E Actually, we can blame you for the lack of advertising of VMS. You've N trademarked all the right buzzphrases and HP can't find any good ones left :-) :-) :-) :-)    ------------------------------    Date: 22 May 2004 17:43:15 -0700. From: fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso)- Subject: Re: "Unix-like systems like VAX/VMS" = Message-ID: <f30679fb.0405221643.737b2301@posting.google.com>   h "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com> wrote in message news:<40ABE32D.12784.804D7A9@localhost>...G > Is VMS like Unix?  I like the butter commercial: "We'll never say we   > taste like margarine." > + > ------- Forwarded message follows -------  > 4 > EVANGELIST Puts Linux v/s Microsoft Debate To Rest > CXOtoday.com - IndiaD > .. has core similarities to Unix, and the same Dave Cutler that isC > responsible for developing and designing Windows NT, has designed $ > Unix-like systems like VAX/VMS ...H > <http://www.cxotoday.com/cxo/jsp/index.jsp?section=News&subsection=Peo7 > ple&subsection_code=6&file=template1.jsp&storyid=966>     D May be the Computer Science courses are not good anymore in the USA.L Take care or you will take your Masters Course in Bangaldore or New Delhi !    Regards    FC   ------------------------------    Date: 22 May 2004 17:40:54 -0700. From: fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso) Subject: Blade VAX= Message-ID: <f30679fb.0405221640.39c0f7ba@posting.google.com>   < Would be costly for HP to free the VAX hardware architecture( to any company develop a VAX like this ?   HP bc1000 blade PC    W http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/pscmisc/vac/us/en/sm/desktops/blade/bc1000_overview.html    Overview  D http://h18000.www1.hp.com/products/quickspecs/11903_na/11903_na.HTML     Regards    FC   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 01:29:11 GMT , From: "Dave Gudewicz" <k9jdk@NOSPAMarrl.net>4 Subject: CARTS (Chicagoland) LUG meeting 9-June-2004, Message-ID: <LrSrc.24653$zw.18422@attbi_s01>   Notice:   D Next CARTS LUG meeting is on 9-June-2004.  Note:  Second, not first, Wednesday of June.  ( See CARTS LUG web page soon for details.   Dave...    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 03:39:02 GMT , From: "Dave Gudewicz" <k9jdk@NOSPAMarrl.net>4 Subject: CARTS (Chicagoland) LUG meeting 9-June-20040 Message-ID: <q1Vrc.96165$536.17270081@attbi_s03>   Notice:   D Next CARTS LUG meeting is on 9-June-2004.  Note:  Second, not first, Wednesday of June.  ( See CARTS LUG web page soon for details.   Dave...    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 20:32:03 GMT - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> A Subject: Re: CDE - redirecting complete desktop to another system @ Message-ID: <4032afeffd0ab1de79117a139d34ed24@news.teranews.com>   Tony Arnold wrote:1 > You could try using XDM which is now supported.     J The XDM that comes with RCPIp Services is crippled. It doesn't support theH MIT-cookies authentication, and its "fake" login screen doesn't generateG alarms or breakin evasion so one could use it to crack into a system by  testing passwords.    7 Definitely not ready for prime time. (at least on VAX).    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 23:22:08 +0200 , From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems.dotweg@zonnet.nl>  Subject: Re: Dave Cutler and VMS* Message-ID: <2h9up6Faasg1U1@uni-berlin.de>  A "Bob Willard" <BobwBSGS@TrashThis.comcast.net> schreef in bericht & news:gXHrc.22492$zw.16951@attbi_s01... > Steve Lionel wrote:  > H > > Cutler left VMS in 1980 before version 2.0 was released, and was not further ) > > involved with the VMS OS development.  > > 	 > > Steve  > G > While not part of the VMS group after ~1980, Dave did have some later ? > and substantial influence on VMS when he was running DEC-West  > (ZSO, a/k/a DecWet). > L > When some of us were campaigning to get VMS to support SMP instead of AMP,L > Dick H. was adamantly opposed.  Dave took a (huge) pile of VMS listings toK > his office in ZSO, marked them up with changes needed to support SMP, and J > had them delivered to ZKO to prove that SMP was feasible with VMS.  I doJ > not know how much of Dave's changes were actually incorporated into VMS, but K > the SMP version of VMS was extremely valuable to DEC and, IMHO, would not F > have happened (or not in time for the VAX 6K) without Dave's effort. > H > More opinion:  in the Hustvedt-dominated environment of the early-80'sI > VMS group, it was not fashionable to give credit to Cutler or, in fact, E > to any non-VMS person for contributions to VMS.  So, even if Dave's  changes J > to support SMP were used in toto, they may bear some initials other thanK > DNC.  While Dick H. and Dave C. were both extraordinary technical people, I > their deep disagreement on VMS issues was well-known and was one of the I > reasons that Dave left VMS:  Dave pointed out that the Seattle area was 2 > about as far as he could get from the VMS group. > K > Caveat:  I was never part of the VMS group.  I was significantly involved I > in the first MP VAX and the first good MP VAX; yeah, I know, those were  > different VAXen. > --  
 > Cheers, Bob  > J The first MP VAX being the 11/782? The first "good" MP one the 8350 or the 62n0 series?H The reason that the later models behaved better was due to the fact that until VMS V5.0 one. cpu was the primary cpu, and handled all IO's?E Lots of questions I know but if you'd care to elaborate somewhat... I  remember upgradingL from VMS V4.7 on an 8350 without the multi cpu license to V5.0 that had dual cpu support 5 and was quite impressed with the scaling at the time.    Hans   ------------------------------    Date: 22 May 2004 17:34:02 -0700. From: fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso)  Subject: Re: Dave Cutler and VMS= Message-ID: <f30679fb.0405221634.57de67e2@posting.google.com>   n JF Mezei <jfmezei@vaxination.ca> wrote in message news:<f7ecd96fba880e2ee45614e80646853a@news.teranews.com>...E > Can someone post an authoritative answer to the following question:  > % > What exactly did Cutler do to VMS ?  > M > In other words, from the baggage he brought with him to Microsoft, how much L > was *his* and how much was just stuff he learned during the time he worked > with other engineers on VMS ?  > O > At exactly what version of VMS did Cutler start and end his VMS involvement ?  > N > I am a bit tired of seeing this one individual portrayed as some form of god= > without knowing any of the specifics of what he did to VMS.   - Well ! My question is:  Is he living ? RIP !     Regards    FC   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 00:44:37 GMT 4 From: "Roert G. Schaffrath" <rschaffrath@yahoo.com>  Subject: Re: Dave Cutler and VMS% Message-ID: <40AFF407.7787@yahoo.com>    Hans Vlems wrote:  > C > "Bob Willard" <BobwBSGS@TrashThis.comcast.net> schreef in bericht ( > news:gXHrc.22492$zw.16951@attbi_s01... > > Steve Lionel wrote:  > > J > > > Cutler left VMS in 1980 before version 2.0 was released, and was not	 > further + > > > involved with the VMS OS development.  > > >  > > > Steve  > > I > > While not part of the VMS group after ~1980, Dave did have some later A > > and substantial influence on VMS when he was running DEC-West  > > (ZSO, a/k/a DecWet). > > N > > When some of us were campaigning to get VMS to support SMP instead of AMP,N > > Dick H. was adamantly opposed.  Dave took a (huge) pile of VMS listings toM > > his office in ZSO, marked them up with changes needed to support SMP, and L > > had them delivered to ZKO to prove that SMP was feasible with VMS.  I doL > > not know how much of Dave's changes were actually incorporated into VMS, > but M > > the SMP version of VMS was extremely valuable to DEC and, IMHO, would not H > > have happened (or not in time for the VAX 6K) without Dave's effort. > > J > > More opinion:  in the Hustvedt-dominated environment of the early-80'sK > > VMS group, it was not fashionable to give credit to Cutler or, in fact, G > > to any non-VMS person for contributions to VMS.  So, even if Dave's 	 > changes L > > to support SMP were used in toto, they may bear some initials other thanM > > DNC.  While Dick H. and Dave C. were both extraordinary technical people, K > > their deep disagreement on VMS issues was well-known and was one of the K > > reasons that Dave left VMS:  Dave pointed out that the Seattle area was 4 > > about as far as he could get from the VMS group. > > M > > Caveat:  I was never part of the VMS group.  I was significantly involved K > > in the first MP VAX and the first good MP VAX; yeah, I know, those were  > > different VAXen. > > -- > > Cheers, Bob  > > L > The first MP VAX being the 11/782? The first "good" MP one the 8350 or the > 62n0 series?J > The reason that the later models behaved better was due to the fact that > until VMS V5.0 one0 > cpu was the primary cpu, and handled all IO's?G > Lots of questions I know but if you'd care to elaborate somewhat... I  > remember upgradingN > from VMS V4.7 on an 8350 without the multi cpu license to V5.0 that had dual
 > cpu support 7 > and was quite impressed with the scaling at the time.  >  > Hans  E I had always wanted to try taking two CPU's from a spare 8350 and put C them into another 8350 for a total of four CPU's and see what would F happen.  Unfortunately, when I had access to that many 82xx CPU cards,F VMS V5.0 was not available.  By the time VMS V5.0 came out, I was at aF different job and did not have to ability to perform that experiment. F Performance would have been lousy on the BI bus but it would have been an interesting machine.    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 19:48:47 GMT , From: "Dave Gudewicz" <k9jdk@NOSPAMarrl.net>( Subject: Re: Here's the 1st ad I've seen- Message-ID: <z8Orc.6109$hi6.596097@attbi_s53>   K Let's not forget that VMS is not for sale yet on IA64.  It was mentioned in  the add though.    Dave...   3 "Lee Mah" <lytmah@telusplanet.net> wrote in message $ news:kWvrc.2860$gx1.2340@clgrps12...H > Here's what the 4 ads display:  I searched further for the OS for each	 > client.  > 3 > 1. Airbus                                   HP-UX  > A > 2. COMPUSA                          No mention of OS in the ad. H >                                                  (MS Server 2003, SQL) > B > 3. FIAT AUTO                         No mention of OS in the ad.F >                                                   (Linux Oracle RAC) > 6 > 4. THE KOEHLER GROUP     No mention of OS in the ad.D >                                                   (MS Server 2003) >  >  > John Smith wrote:  > ! > >Sorry, it's a .pdf attachment.  > > , > >From the May 10th issue of eWeek, page 8. > > E > >This is really an ad for Itanic, and I will hazard a guess all the L > >subsequent ads Bob Blatz mentioned will be. The mentions of the operating9 > >system(s) will probably be ancilliary to the hardware.  > > J > >Notice that PH-UX is mentioned by name for Airbus. Have to wait and see if1 > >any customers using VMS are mentioned by name.  > > J > >Reading this ad one might get the idea what you can get SAP on OpenVMS, but L > >we know better. And when a customer calls HP and asks for SAP on OpenVMS, HPJ > >will play the 'can you guess which operating system SAP is on' game andL > >promptly offer PH-UX as the best (only) solution to the customer's needs. > > K > >If this is what HP thinks constitutes real advertising for VMS, then Bob K > >Blatz, carly(tm) and the rest of the 'brain trust' gang at HP never read K > >anything written by advertising luminaries such as J. Walter Thompson or  the I > >other greats of Madison Avenue.  That's about as polite a way as I can  put  > >it. > >  > > L > >I know, I know....we're supposed to be "grateful" that we've at long lastE > >seen the word 'OpenVMS' in an HP ad.  I feel like losing my lunch.  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  >    ------------------------------    Date: 22 May 2004 14:07:19 -0700 From: Amoredben@aol.com . Subject: Re: J F caught beating his meat again< Message-ID: <9218a0e.0405221307.4be04521@posting.google.com>  E I thought you said JFK was caught beating his meat again. Even though > the former president's been dead for over 30 years, he's still sexually aroused.    ------------------------------    Date: 22 May 2004 17:37:00 -0700. From: fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso)6 Subject: OpenVMS needs it:  The new desktop contender.= Message-ID: <f30679fb.0405221637.5361a93b@posting.google.com>    Click   % http://www.sun.com/2004-0504/feature/    The new desktop contender.C The Sun Java Desktop System, Release 2, the latest version of Sun's A low-cost desktop client, delivers extraordinary functionality and  unbeatable value.   C 04.May.04--Last fall, Sun introduced the Sun Java Desktop System, a E highly affordable desktop alternative to Microsoft Windows (Windows). E Many thought we were a little crazy to compete in this market, but we F believed that our customers deserved a choice. Six months later, we're@ pleased to see that the market has embraced the Sun Java Desktop System with open arms.  @ Given the success of the initial release of the Sun Java DesktopC System, we wanted to make our desktop alternative even more viable. = With the Sun Java Desktop System, Release 2, we're delivering E significant new functionality, including extensive desktop management D tools, language enhancements, and a complete development environmentC as a bonus. Offering incredible value, the Sun Java Desktop System, A Release 2 is a fully integrated, comprehensive desktop client and  management tools offering. (...)    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 20:08:44 -0500 @ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>6 Subject: Re: Puzzling LIB$SPAWN problem with DEC BASIC6 Message-ID: <40AFF99C.433E0B75@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   Stephen Eickhoff wrote:  > M > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> wrote in message 2 > news:40AECB25.5171DFCD@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net... > > Stephen Eickhoff wrote:  > > > L > > > I hope someone out there with a clue can help me with this. I'm trying > to do M > > > something very simple - spawn a process from a BASIC program (VAX BASIC F > > > 3.8). I can put together a program like this and get it to work: > > 6 > >  1. A. Do you ever test the value returned in "x"?+ > >     B. Does (x and 1) return 1 or zero? E > >        1. If zero (IF NOT X), try CALLing LIB$STOP( x by value ).  > > J > >  2. "@GAL-EMAIL.COM" assumes that GAL-EMAIL.COM resides in the currentB > >     working ("default") directory. Is this true? Are you sure? > E > I got the following output when I fed the value of X into lib$stop:  >  > 000EEF37 000EEF37 ? > ----- above condition handler called with exception 000388F4: K > %CLI-F-TRMMBX, terminal has associated mailbox - terminate image and then  > SPAWN  > I > Well, I don't use any mailboxes in this program - at least not yet. I'm ) > wondering where this mailbox came from! F > What creates temporary mailboxes, other than an explicit sys$crembx?  : This tell you that something went wrong in the subprocess.  H Remember that error messages don't always mean what they seem. "File notH found" is fairly explicit, but a message such as the above might be moreH akin to "broken pipe" in the UN*X world (an error occurred at some point in a pipeline).    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 20:59:33 +0100 ) From: Tony Arnold <tony.arnold@man.ac.uk>  Subject: ssh on TCP/IP 5.4; Message-ID: <40afb12f$0$17781$cc9e4d1f@news.dial.pipex.com>   G I've been trying to make use of the ssh service that comes with TCP/IP  D 5.4 running on 7.3-2. I am issuing the following from a OpenSSH box , (it's actually Cygwin on a Windows machine):        ssh node-name dir  G I get prompted for a password as I expect and then a directory listing  ' appears. However if I do the following:         ssh node-name directory  I I get prompted for a password, no directory listing and a message saying  ' the connection closed by remote system.   ) I have applied the ECO-1 patch to TCP/IP.    Anyone else get this problem?    Regards, Tony.  --  F Tony Arnold, Deputy to the Head of COS Division, Manchester Computing,: University of Manchester, Oxford Road, Manchester M13 9PL.F T: +44 (0)161 275 6093, F: +44 (0)870 136 1004, M: +44 (0)773 330 0039E E-mail: tony.arnold@man.ac.uk, Home: http://www.man.ac.uk/Tony.Arnold        --  F Tony Arnold, Deputy to the Head of COS Division, Manchester Computing,: University of Manchester, Oxford Road, Manchester M13 9PL.F T: +44 (0)161 275 6093, F: +44 (0)870 136 1004, M: +44 (0)773 330 0039E E-mail: tony.arnold@man.ac.uk, Home: http://www.man.ac.uk/Tony.Arnold    ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 21:30:00 +0000 (UTC) 6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) Subject: Re: ssh on TCP/IP 5.40 Message-ID: <newscache$quw4yh$6ll$1@news.sil.at>  g In article <40afb12f$0$17781$cc9e4d1f@news.dial.pipex.com>, Tony Arnold <tony.arnold@man.ac.uk> writes: H >I've been trying to make use of the ssh service that comes with TCP/IP E >5.4 running on 7.3-2. I am issuing the following from a OpenSSH box  - >(it's actually Cygwin on a Windows machine):  >  >     ssh node-name dir  > H >I get prompted for a password as I expect and then a directory listing ( >appears. However if I do the following: >  >     ssh node-name directory  > J >I get prompted for a password, no directory listing and a message saying ( >the connection closed by remote system. > * >I have applied the ECO-1 patch to TCP/IP.  ) V5.4 ECO 1 ? Haven't tried it yet. Sorry.    >Anyone else get this problem?  - No difference between DIR and DIRECTORY here. * (Do you have a DIRECTORY symbol defined ?)  H btw: I only saw a big I/O peak (6digit per second) at the end of the SSHG session with an included command line (which lasted minutes - or hours, F I don't know, I always aborted them shortly after - on versions beforeK TCPIP V5.4) opposed to sessions without a command line (On this interactice C session I saw error messages mentioning illegal/oversized packets).    --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 18:29:12 GMT & From: "~ Darrell ~" <Darrell@here.duh>& Subject: Re: The JF Mezei FAQ - 052004F Message-ID: <YZMrc.1372$U1f1.687@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  5 "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message 6 news:d7791aa1.0405220535.f0940be@posting.google.com... > < > "THOU SHALL NOT TAKE THE NAME OF THE LORD THY GOD IN VAIN" >  > clean up your act Dave ...  J So what makes you assume that Jesus is Dave's Lord??? Personally The BibleF is the worst book of Fiction ever written. Full of inconsistencies, in plausible story lines.  = The only bigger piece of fiction known is the J.F. Menzei FAQ    ------------------------------   Date: 22 May 2004 20:54:59 GMT1 From: schroedingerzkat@aol.com (SchroedingerzKat) & Subject: Re: The JF Mezei FAQ - 052004: Message-ID: <20040522165459.23604.00001417@mb-m12.aol.com>  
 Bob wrote:  ; >"THOU SHALL NOT TAKE THE NAME OF THE LORD THY GOD IN VAIN"  >  >clean up your act Dave ...   0 Thou Shalt Not Post VMS Spam on the Linux Lists.   Michael    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 04:16:04 GMT * From: Steven Fisher <sdfisher@spamcop.net>& Subject: Re: The JF Mezei FAQ - 052004B Message-ID: <sdfisher-3975DC.21160322052004@news.va.shawcable.net>  A In article <Xns94F09D7879324dragnetinternalysisc@207.35.177.134>, 3  Marc Bissonnette <dragnet@internalysis.com> wrote:   / > Steven Fisher <sdfisher@spamcop.net> wrote in = > news:sdfisher-8B08E5.11290221052004@news.va.shawcable.net:   > J > > Unfortunately, if you say something often enough, people will start toG > > believe it regardless of how stupid it is. I believe our anonymous   > > coward has realized this.  > I > <shrug> to a point, perhaps, but the anonymous gutless wonder posts so  K > often as to piss people off with not only the frequency of his spam, but   > the off-topicness of it all.  F You can be pissed off at his posts while at the same time starting to < believe them on some levels. It's funny how the brain works.  G > Fortunally, killfiling "nomen nescio" has cleaned up my news display  I > greatly, since I couldn't care less what the anonycoward's opinions on   > others are };-0>  > I've tried killfiling him in the past, but he morphs too much.   --  # Steven Fisher; sdfisher@spamcop.net  "Morituri Nolumus Mori."   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 19:51:25 -0500 @ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>2 Subject: Re: You'll never guess what HP advertised6 Message-ID: <40AFF58D.D5748F7C@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   Wayne wrote: > < > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message< > news:15a0d6b06e8f57d31be237246a09d831@news.teranews.com... > > "David J. Dachtera" wrote:M > > > Truth be told, if hp would allow OpenVMS to "be all that it can be" (to L > > > paraphrase the Army ads - even the military embraces what VMS denies),H > > > the VMS business could easily eclipse all of hp's other businessesI > > > combined. Too bad hp is not smart - they could embrace VMS and sell * > > > their pc/printer businesses to Dell. > > L > > I am not sure VMS would eclipse everything else. But it would definitely > growN > > and generate healthy profits. Remember however that HP would need to lowerJ > > profit margins on VMS products at the low end in order to allow growth > (but% > > keep margins for larger systems).  > > : > > And no, HP need not sell its toner/ink/paper business. > G > I'm not sure that advertising is the most direct route to VMS growth.   @ We probably don't need to focus on "the most direct route to VMSG growth". Any route that gets us there will do, and having more than one 3 in flight at any one time is probably a good thing.    > I L > think that VMS growth would be better served if HP would pressure ISVs whoM > offer products on HP's other platforms (Windows, HPUX, Linux) to fully port N > them to VMS also. My boss doesn't care if VMS is advertised. He simply tells? > me to find a platform to support ... [snip] Give me something 8 > to work with, and I'll do my own advertising in-house.  E Well, that's fine, but we still need to expand the VMS "mindshare" so D when we say "VMS", they thing something other than Vendor Management< System, Voluntary Milking System, Voice Message System, etc.  N > Oh - yeah. By-the-way, it wouldn't hurt if I could include VMS in our activeK > directory structure too. While promoting VMS in-house, I'm simultaneously K > taking it out of our Windows domain because I find out it doesn't play in J > Active Directory.  So much for all the NT affinity stuff I fed everyone.  F Amazing how many former road-map items have fallen by the wayside, eh?   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.284 ************************