1 INFO-VAX	Mon, 31 May 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 300       Contents: Re: datatrieve Re: datatrieve Re: datatrieve Re: datatrieve Re: datatrieve Re: datatrieve Re: datatrieve failed CXX installation? routing table help?  Re: routing table help?  Re: Sortwork file query  Re: Sortwork file query  TECO on Itanium.../ The Inquirer: CA to Open Source Ingres Database , Re: [DECset V12.5] Current LSE/SCA version ?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  + Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 18:00:55 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: datatrieve $ Message-ID: <c9d7gn$tdp$1@online.de>  H In article <40b9e3b3$0$26348$9b4e6d93@newsread4.arcor-online.net>, Keith- Cayemberg <keith.cayemberg@arcor.de> writes:    1 > Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: K > > I'm updating the layered products on my hobbyist system.  Since I have  K > > enough disk space, I figure I might as well install stuff I don't need  J > > now but which might come in handy in the future.  One such product is L > > DATATRIEVE.  Can someone explain in a nutshell what it does and whether L > > it is worth learning for someone like myself who has no experience with  > > it?  > I > Paul and Hans have already provided very good qualified answers to your H > question of "what is Datatrieve". I just wish to add a couple comments! > and some pointers to resources.    > 	For instance...= > 	http://www.decus.de:8080/www/common/vms/FUN/WOMBAT_JIM.JPG  > 	and, here in German (sorry)+ > 	http://www.interbase2000.de/hist/ah1.htm   E No need to apologise; I have lived in Germany for more than 20 years!   + Thanks for the huge collection of pointers!    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 20:36:57 +0200 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>  Subject: Re: datatrieve ' Message-ID: <40BA29C9.1C0CD698@aaa.com>    Hi!   % I think DTR is/was a quite nice tool.   9 I used the DTR-11 version on a PDP 11/84 running RSX-11/M = (using 4Mb mem !). Someone toold me it was probably  the most 8 heavily overlayed application on RSX ever written... :-)  = Anyway, I used it for reporting as usualy, but also to "edit" < fixed record lengt, direct access RMS files, which could not< be edited with a normal editor (EDT or TPU) since they would change the fixed record format.   8 You could say that there are better PC-based tools using7 e.g. ODBC today, but show me how to run them from batch  jobs ! :-) :-)    	 Jan-Erik.     / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:  > H > I'm updating the layered products on my hobbyist system.  Since I haveH > enough disk space, I figure I might as well install stuff I don't needG > now but which might come in handy in the future.  One such product is I > DATATRIEVE.  Can someone explain in a nutshell what it does and whether I > it is worth learning for someone like myself who has no experience with  > it?    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 21:33:06 +0200 * From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net> Subject: Re: datatrieve * Message-ID: <2hur7kFgpnrgU1@uni-berlin.de>   Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:  > Hi!  > ' > I think DTR is/was a quite nice tool.  > ; > I used the DTR-11 version on a PDP 11/84 running RSX-11/M ? > (using 4Mb mem !). Someone toold me it was probably  the most : > heavily overlayed application on RSX ever written... :-) >   G Oh, LOL Jan-Erik. Not only was it heavily overlayed in RSX, but, well,  @ this is the best description I have come across about it on VMS.  A =================================================================   5              A Day in the Life of the Image Activator   9          as recounted to Stanley Rabinowitz on 7-Jan-1985   = MONITOR:        Good morning sir!  I am your command language J                  interpreter today.  That was a flawlessly executed LOGIN.*                  How may I help you today?  1 USER:           Good morning to you too computer. A                  I think today I want to do some data retrieving.   C MONITOR:        A wonderful choice sir!  A finer day it couldn't be I                  for looking over your data.  How will you have it today? 3                  Sunny side up?  Once over lightly?   G USER:           I think I'll use DATATRIEVE.  Would you kindly activate #                  DATATRIEVE please?   9 MONITOR:        Most certainly sir!  An excellent choice! 6                  One moment while I image-activate it.  D MONITOR:        Oh, image activator: would you please image-activateG                  that DTR32 image that I notice on SYS$SYSTEM?  My user 3                  desires to play with it a bit now.   8 IMAGE ACTIVATOR: No problem.  Shouldn't take but a jiff.                    <pause>   MONITOR:        Any problems?   D IMAGE ACTIVATOR: No sir, not a one.  It's just that I'm surprised toA                  see that DTR32 is composed of 21 image sections. A                  Quite an unusual number for a VMS utility.  Most C                  images only have 3 or 4 sections.  This one really F                  sets a record!  But no problem - I just \love/ to mapF                  in all these sections.  After all - that's my primary!                  purpose in life.                     <pause>  A IMAGE ACTIVATOR: Well, that should do it.  They're all mapped in.   - MONITOR:        Then we can start her up now?   @ IMAGE ACTIVATOR: Well not quite.  I just noticed that this imageC                  invokes some shared images.  Oh well, I guess I'll D                  have to go image-activate them too.  At least we'llE                  only have to activate those images that this program                   really needs.  7 MONITOR:        How many shared images does it require?   = IMAGE ACTIVATOR: Oh mi gosh!  It references 15 shared images! 5                  Another record!  I can't believe it! &                  Oh well, here goes...  B IMAGE ACTIVATOR: The first one it wants is DTRSHR.  That should be                  an easy one.                     <pause>  ? IMAGE ACTIVATOR: Oh no! Not another one. That's two in one day! 3                  DTRSHR.EXE uses 20 image sections!   2 MONITOR:        Have you enough room for them all?  J IMAGE ACTIVATOR: No sweat. This is a virtual memory machine. And this disk=                  I/O is real fast.  I'll have it in a minute.                     <pause>  @ IMAGE ACTIVATOR: There. Now on to the other shared images.  NextB                  comes CDDSHR.  Guess it's important that we share                  all this data.     MONITOR:        Yup.  What next?  > IMAGE ACTIVATOR: Now we'll need a database manager, so I guessE                  we'll just have to go off and image-activate DBMSHR, 0                  the database management system.  " MONITOR:        Sounds reasonable.  / USER:           How's it coming there computer?   8 MONITOR:        No sweat.  It'll be just another moment.  / IMAGE ACTIVATOR: And now we'll activate RDBSHR.   H MONITOR:        But I thought you just brought in your database manager?  G IMAGE ACTIVATOR: Yes, but this one is the \relational/ database system. 1                  It's a whole different ballgame.   % MONITOR:        Well, hurry it along.   A IMAGE ACTIVATOR: Okay. Next comes RDMSHR, the relational database                   manager.   5 MONITOR:        But how does that differ from RDBSHR?   B IMAGE ACTIVATOR: I don't know.  I just activate 'em.  They tell me.                  to image-act and I image-act.  = MONITOR:        Well, I hope that's it for database managers.   @ IMAGE ACTIVATOR: Not quite. There's still RDBBSHR.  This companyE                  specializes in its excellent collection of managers.   . MONITOR:        Great! I guess that's it then.  ? IMAGE ACTIVATOR: Not on your life! Do you think our user merely B                  wants to look at relationships?  What if he wants"                  to sort his data?   MONITOR:        Oh.   B IMAGE ACTIVATOR: Didn't think of that did you?  I guess we'll just3                  have to go image-activate SORTSHR.    MONITOR:        I guess so.   9 USER:           But I don't plan to do any sorting today. 9                  I just wanted to prepare a short report.   6 IMAGE ACTIVATOR: Sorry. SORTSHR comes with this image.$                  It's a free option.   MONITOR:        What next?  ? IMAGE ACTIVATOR: Hmm.  Looks like a request to bring in COBRTL, ,                  the COBOL run-time library.  C MONITOR:        Why would they want that?  Is DATATRIEVE written in                   COBOL?   E IMAGE ACTIVATOR: No, but the COBOL run time library has many precious G                  gems of useful routines that one might wish to call... ;                  Guess, I'll just go image-activate it now.   C MONITOR:        Good thing you don't also need the FORTRAN run-time                   library too.   B IMAGE ACTIVATOR: Now you've done it! You've given me the evil eye.C                  Either that or I just got up out of the wrong side B                  of the bed this morning.  Here look at this: this<                  image is also requesting FORRTL and LIBRTL.7                  OH! and now look: It wants MTHRTL too!   B MONITOR:        You never know when our user might want to do some@                  computation.  He might need to compute some arc;                  cosines you know.  Better safe than sorry.   & USER:           What's taking so long?  E MONITOR:        (still trying to be pleasant) We're almost there now. =                  Shant be much longer.  After all, you want a 0                  user-friendly system don't you?  < IMAGE ACTIVATOR: That's right.  I guess that's why I've been@                  instructed to image activate LBRSHR.  You neverC                  know when the user might request some on-line help C                  so we've got to have our librarian ready to answer                   his questions.   E MONITOR:        That's nice.  I'm sure our user will appreciate that.   @ IMAGE ACTIVATOR: And oh yeah - we'll need SCRSHR too, the screenA                  package.  Only the best on \this/ system.  Can't =                  let our user make do without fancy graphics!   @ MONITOR:        A wonderful thought.  But will SCRSHR be enough?  @ IMAGE ACTIVATOR: No. you're right of course.  We'll also have to?                  bring in EDTSHR.  SCRSHR is only the low level @                  graphics.  EDTSHR will really let our user edit#                  his data in style.   ? USER:           But I wasn't planning to change the data today. *                  Just one simple report...  B MONITOR:        Keep your shirt on.  When this image finally comes3                  up, it will really blow your mind.   B MONITOR:        But image activator, will EDTSHR really be enough?6                  Isn't the big thing these days forms?  ? IMAGE ACTIVATOR: Right you are monitor, baby.  Guess we'll need A                  FDVSHR, the forms management system.  Won't take E                  but another moment. (sigh) I think that was the last                   one.   E MONITOR:        Great! Then I can report back that we're ready to go?   : IMAGE ACTIVATOR: One second. Let me make one last check...  ' MONITOR:        Never pays to be hasty.   ? IMAGE ACTIVATOR: Ah nuts! Some of these new images that we just <                  activated are requesting further attention.>                  It looks like they too want to activate other                  shared images.   E MONITOR:        Don't we have enough images?  That's been 16 already!   : IMAGE ACTIVATOR: Well, security is an important issue too.9                  Wouldn't want our user to lose any data. B                  Look here: CDDSHR wants us to bring in SECURESHR.F                  Guess I'll just have to image-activate another one...  : USER:           (getting impatient) What's taking so long?  B MONITOR:        We're putting all the pieces together for you now.*                  Shouldn't be much longer.  F USER:           Putting them together?  Doesn't it come all assembled?  H MONITOR:        Not to worry.  There's no extra charge for installation.  G IMAGE ACTIVATOR: There.  And now what?  Look at this: CDDSHR also wants D                  us to activate LIBRTL, the common run-time library.  7 MONITOR:        But didn't you already activate LIBRTL?   9 IMAGE ACTIVATOR: Right on baby!  Let me just look around.                     <pause>  H IMAGE ACTIVATOR: Oh there it is.  We have it mapped into memory already.;                  I guess I'll just throw this request away.   < MONITOR:        Do you get many of these redundant requests?  H IMAGE ACTIVATOR: Yeah, they happen all the time. Nothing to worry about.I                  You get used to it.  Look here, SCRSHR wants LIBRTL too; E                  and so does SORTSHR, and COBRTL, and FORRTL, and ...   + MONITOR:        Well hurry it along please.   2 IMAGE ACTIVATOR: ... and FDVSHR and MTHRTL and ...E                  Oh and look at this duplicate request for LBRSHR and 6                  RDMSHR and RDBBSHR and VMSRTL and ...  A MONITOR:        VMSRTL?  I don't remember seeing that one before. -                  What is it and who wants it?   F IMAGE ACTIVATOR: Oops, you're right.  I almost overlooked this requestD                  by RDBSHR.  It's easy to overlook this one; it's so@                  small.  Only contains a few transfer vectors...  9 MONITOR:        Guess it should be easy to activate then?   @ IMAGE ACTIVATOR: On the contrary.  This one attempts to activateF                  the entire RTL!  Imagine that.  Oh well. That's life.F                  Fortunately, I've already brought in most of the RTL.@                  Let's see now, what else will we need?  Oh yes,C                  BASRTL.  Can't imagine how we overlooked that one.     MONITOR:        Is that it then?  C IMAGE ACTIVATOR: Yup. That's it.  She's all here.  You can go start                   her up!  7 USER:           (pounding on keyboard) Where's my data!   > MONITOR:        Please use voice input sir! Those CTRL/T's are>                  MOST annoying.  They cause the most insidious@                  asynchronous traps to interrupt what I'm trying7                  to do.  We're starting your image now.     USER:           It's about time.  9 MONITOR:        There. How's that?  Lovely data isn't it?   4 USER:           I wouldn't know.  Where's my prompt?  2 MONITOR:        I don't know. Let me look into it.  1 MONITOR:        Control unit, where's his prompt?   ? CONTROL UNIT:   We're executing instructions as fast as we can! )                  Oh my god! An exception!   . MONITOR:        An exception! Is that serious?  F CONTROL UNIT:   My mistake; it's not a hardware exception, it's merelyI                  a software exception.  Looks like the program signalled.   ! MONITOR:        Why'd it do that?   D CONTROL UNIT:   Well, this program is naturally user friendly, so it@                  wants to start up by printing a welcome message!                  on the terminal.   * MONITOR:        So why doesn't it do that?  ; CONTROL UNIT:   Well the message is in a message file, sir.    MONITOR:        Well get it!  ? CONTROL UNIT:   That's what we're trying to do.  You'll have to A                  check with the system message handling facility. /                  It takes care of those things.   B SYSTEM:         Ah, I have the message request now.  I'll have the%                  message in a moment.   ( MONITOR:        Well, how do you get it?  C SYSTEM:         No sweat, we'll just image activate the appropriate !                  message section.   @ IMAGE ACTIVATOR: Oh no.  I thought I had a deserved rest coming.  0 SYSTEM:         Sorry, just a little bit longer.  & USER:           WHERE'S MY PROMPT!!!!!  < MONITOR:        Keep your pants on.  Just be glad you're not5                  trying to activate any subprocesses.   ? IMAGE ACTIVATOR: Okay, one last time.  Which message section do $                  you need activated?  ? SYSTEM:         I'm not sure.  Let's try DBMMSG. DBMSHR alerted                    us to this one.  E IMAGE ACTIVATOR: (struggling) Okay. There it is. I've image-activated                   DBMMSG.  B SYSTEM:         Sorry. It wasn't in that one. Try CDDSHR's message7                  section, CDDEXC.  Maybe it's in there.     IMAGE ACTIVATOR: Okay. (grumble)  ; SYSTEM:         Nope. It wasn't there either.  Try RDMSMSG.   D IMAGE ACTIVATOR: Look. I'm getting tired of this.  Couldn't you justA                  give me the complete list of message sections to ?                  activate?  I'll keep bringing them in until we >                  find that damn message.  Exactly what message$                  are we looking for?  > SYSTEM:         Not sure yet, all I have is a number, but it'sE                  probably something like "Welcome to VAX DATATRIEVE".    IMAGE ACTIVATOR: Well...   SYSTEM:         Well what?  1 IMAGE ACTIVATOR: That list of message sections...   K SYSTEM:         Oh yeah.  Well RDBSHR wants RDBMSGS, and not to be outdone, I                  RDBBSHR wants RDBBMSGS, not to be confused with RDBMSGS, G                  and DTRSHR wants DTRMSGS, and SORTSHR wants SHRIMGMSG, K                  and lots of other guys are asking for SHRIMGMSG also - but J                  I'm too smart for them.  I'll just get it once and no one/                  will ever know the difference.    IMAGE ACTIVATOR: Working...   L SYSTEM:         And don't forget FDVMSG.  The message might be in there too.   MONITOR:        OH NO!   SYSTEM:         What is it?   # IMAGE ACTIVATOR: Are you all right?    MONITOR:        An interrupt!    IMAGE ACTIVATOR: An interrupt?  1 MONITOR:        That's what I said, an interrupt. 9                  Image activator: stop what you're doing.   > IMAGE ACTIVATOR: Why?  Just when I was getting the hang of it.  * MONITOR:        The user has typed CTRL/Y.  ? IMAGE ACTIVATOR: Okay, everything has been suspended.  Can I go                   to sleep now?  B MONITOR:        No, you better stick around in case the user wantsH                  to continue.  And notify the exit routines to stand by.I                  And the rundown procedures.  Also, I need moral support. E                  Maybe if I flash a dollar sign in front of his eyes, -                  he'll stop looking so angry.   ; USER:           Computer, I'm really getting tired of this.   ' MONITOR:        But we were so close...    USER:           A likely story.   3 MONITOR:        Well what can I do for you instead?   = USER:           I still want my report.  Let's try some other +                  way of retrieving my data.   A MONITOR:        A wonderful idea sir!  A finer day it couldn't be I                  for looking over your data.  How will you have it today? 3                  Sunny side up?  Once over lightly?   $ USER:           How about SCRAMBLED?  A MONITOR:        No problem sir.  Wait one moment while I activate                   ENCRYPTSHR...  . the curtain falls as the dance begins again...              The players:   %          DTR32           VAX DTR V3.1 %          DTRSHR          VAX DTR V3.1 #          CDDSHR          CDD T3.1-0 (          DBMSHR          VAX DBMS V2.2-3          RDBSHR          03-06%          RDMSHR          Rdb/VMS T1.1 ?          RDBBSHR         03-05           also known as RDBBSTUB            SORTSHR         V04-000           COBRTL          V04-000           FORRTL          V04-000           LIBRTL          V04-000           MTHRTL          V04-000!          FDVSHR          FMS V2.2            LBRSHR          V04-000           SCRSHR          V04-000           EDTSHR          V04-000           SECURESHR       V04-000           VMSRTL          V04-000           BASRTL          V04-000          DTRMSGS         03-05#          CDDEXC          CDD T3.1-0           DBMMSG          03-03          RDMSMSG         03-05          RDBMSGS         03-06          RDBBMSGS        03-05           SHRIMGMSG       V04-000!          FDVMSG          V2.1-003   F          for a grand total of 27 shared images and 153 image sections.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 21:56:26 +0200 0 From: Keith Cayemberg <keith.cayemberg@arcor.de> Subject: Re: datatrieve B Message-ID: <40ba3c6b$0$13306$9b4e6d93@newsread2.arcor-online.net>  / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:    > G > No need to apologise; I have lived in Germany for more than 20 years!  > C Oops! I wasn't thinking when I wrote that. I already knew you were  4 posting from Germany from your obfuscated signature.  G This July 20th, it will have been "only" 15 years since I immigrated to  Germany from the U.S.   - > Thanks for the huge collection of pointers!  >   7 You're quite welcome. I hope you also find them useful.    Cheers!    Keith / (Still sometimes preferring DTR or RDML to SQL)    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 01:27:44 GMT 1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>  Subject: Re: datatrieve < Message-ID: <kSvuc.3371$rT7.3211@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com>  6 LOL--- someone had way too much time on their hands...  	 M.Austin.    Paul Sture wrote:    > Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:  >  >> Hi! >>( >> I think DTR is/was a quite nice tool. >>< >> I used the DTR-11 version on a PDP 11/84 running RSX-11/M@ >> (using 4Mb mem !). Someone toold me it was probably  the most; >> heavily overlayed application on RSX ever written... :-)  >> > I > Oh, LOL Jan-Erik. Not only was it heavily overlayed in RSX, but, well,  B > this is the best description I have come across about it on VMS. > C > =================================================================  > 6 >             A Day in the Life of the Image Activator > : >         as recounted to Stanley Rabinowitz on 7-Jan-1985 > ? > MONITOR:        Good morning sir!  I am your command language K >                 interpreter today.  That was a flawlessly executed LOGIN. + >                 How may I help you today?  > 3 > USER:           Good morning to you too computer. B >                 I think today I want to do some data retrieving. > E > MONITOR:        A wonderful choice sir!  A finer day it couldn't be J >                 for looking over your data.  How will you have it today?4 >                 Sunny side up?  Once over lightly? > I > USER:           I think I'll use DATATRIEVE.  Would you kindly activate $ >                 DATATRIEVE please? > ; > MONITOR:        Most certainly sir!  An excellent choice! 7 >                 One moment while I image-activate it.  > F > MONITOR:        Oh, image activator: would you please image-activateH >                 that DTR32 image that I notice on SYS$SYSTEM?  My user4 >                 desires to play with it a bit now. > : > IMAGE ACTIVATOR: No problem.  Shouldn't take but a jiff. >  >                 <pause>  >  > MONITOR:        Any problems?  > F > IMAGE ACTIVATOR: No sir, not a one.  It's just that I'm surprised toB >                 see that DTR32 is composed of 21 image sections.B >                 Quite an unusual number for a VMS utility.  MostD >                 images only have 3 or 4 sections.  This one reallyG >                 sets a record!  But no problem - I just \love/ to map G >                 in all these sections.  After all - that's my primary " >                 purpose in life. >  >                 <pause>  > C > IMAGE ACTIVATOR: Well, that should do it.  They're all mapped in.  > / > MONITOR:        Then we can start her up now?  > B > IMAGE ACTIVATOR: Well not quite.  I just noticed that this imageD >                 invokes some shared images.  Oh well, I guess I'llE >                 have to go image-activate them too.  At least we'll F >                 only have to activate those images that this program >                 really needs.  > 9 > MONITOR:        How many shared images does it require?  > ? > IMAGE ACTIVATOR: Oh mi gosh!  It references 15 shared images! 6 >                 Another record!  I can't believe it!' >                 Oh well, here goes...  > D > IMAGE ACTIVATOR: The first one it wants is DTRSHR.  That should be >                 an easy one. >  >                 <pause>  > A > IMAGE ACTIVATOR: Oh no! Not another one. That's two in one day! 4 >                 DTRSHR.EXE uses 20 image sections! > 4 > MONITOR:        Have you enough room for them all? > L > IMAGE ACTIVATOR: No sweat. This is a virtual memory machine. And this disk> >                 I/O is real fast.  I'll have it in a minute. >  >                 <pause>  > B > IMAGE ACTIVATOR: There. Now on to the other shared images.  NextC >                 comes CDDSHR.  Guess it's important that we share   >                 all this data. > " > MONITOR:        Yup.  What next? > @ > IMAGE ACTIVATOR: Now we'll need a database manager, so I guessF >                 we'll just have to go off and image-activate DBMSHR,1 >                 the database management system.  > $ > MONITOR:        Sounds reasonable. > 1 > USER:           How's it coming there computer?  > : > MONITOR:        No sweat.  It'll be just another moment. > 1 > IMAGE ACTIVATOR: And now we'll activate RDBSHR.  > J > MONITOR:        But I thought you just brought in your database manager? > I > IMAGE ACTIVATOR: Yes, but this one is the \relational/ database system. 2 >                 It's a whole different ballgame. > ' > MONITOR:        Well, hurry it along.  > C > IMAGE ACTIVATOR: Okay. Next comes RDMSHR, the relational database  >                 manager. > 7 > MONITOR:        But how does that differ from RDBSHR?  > D > IMAGE ACTIVATOR: I don't know.  I just activate 'em.  They tell me/ >                 to image-act and I image-act.  > ? > MONITOR:        Well, I hope that's it for database managers.  > B > IMAGE ACTIVATOR: Not quite. There's still RDBBSHR.  This companyF >                 specializes in its excellent collection of managers. > 0 > MONITOR:        Great! I guess that's it then. > A > IMAGE ACTIVATOR: Not on your life! Do you think our user merely C >                 wants to look at relationships?  What if he wants # >                 to sort his data?  >  > MONITOR:        Oh.  > D > IMAGE ACTIVATOR: Didn't think of that did you?  I guess we'll just4 >                 have to go image-activate SORTSHR. >  > MONITOR:        I guess so.  > ; > USER:           But I don't plan to do any sorting today. : >                 I just wanted to prepare a short report. > 8 > IMAGE ACTIVATOR: Sorry. SORTSHR comes with this image.% >                 It's a free option.  >  > MONITOR:        What next? > A > IMAGE ACTIVATOR: Hmm.  Looks like a request to bring in COBRTL, - >                 the COBOL run-time library.  > E > MONITOR:        Why would they want that?  Is DATATRIEVE written in  >                 COBOL? > G > IMAGE ACTIVATOR: No, but the COBOL run time library has many precious H >                 gems of useful routines that one might wish to call...< >                 Guess, I'll just go image-activate it now. > E > MONITOR:        Good thing you don't also need the FORTRAN run-time  >                 library too. > D > IMAGE ACTIVATOR: Now you've done it! You've given me the evil eye.D >                 Either that or I just got up out of the wrong sideC >                 of the bed this morning.  Here look at this: this = >                 image is also requesting FORRTL and LIBRTL. 8 >                 OH! and now look: It wants MTHRTL too! > D > MONITOR:        You never know when our user might want to do someA >                 computation.  He might need to compute some arc < >                 cosines you know.  Better safe than sorry. > ( > USER:           What's taking so long? > G > MONITOR:        (still trying to be pleasant) We're almost there now. > >                 Shant be much longer.  After all, you want a1 >                 user-friendly system don't you?  > > > IMAGE ACTIVATOR: That's right.  I guess that's why I've beenA >                 instructed to image activate LBRSHR.  You never D >                 know when the user might request some on-line helpD >                 so we've got to have our librarian ready to answer  >                 his questions. > G > MONITOR:        That's nice.  I'm sure our user will appreciate that.  > B > IMAGE ACTIVATOR: And oh yeah - we'll need SCRSHR too, the screenB >                 package.  Only the best on \this/ system.  Can't> >                 let our user make do without fancy graphics! > B > MONITOR:        A wonderful thought.  But will SCRSHR be enough? > B > IMAGE ACTIVATOR: No. you're right of course.  We'll also have to@ >                 bring in EDTSHR.  SCRSHR is only the low levelA >                 graphics.  EDTSHR will really let our user edit $ >                 his data in style. > A > USER:           But I wasn't planning to change the data today. + >                 Just one simple report...  > D > MONITOR:        Keep your shirt on.  When this image finally comes4 >                 up, it will really blow your mind. > D > MONITOR:        But image activator, will EDTSHR really be enough?7 >                 Isn't the big thing these days forms?  > A > IMAGE ACTIVATOR: Right you are monitor, baby.  Guess we'll need B >                 FDVSHR, the forms management system.  Won't takeF >                 but another moment. (sigh) I think that was the last >                 one. > G > MONITOR:        Great! Then I can report back that we're ready to go?  > < > IMAGE ACTIVATOR: One second. Let me make one last check... > ) > MONITOR:        Never pays to be hasty.  > A > IMAGE ACTIVATOR: Ah nuts! Some of these new images that we just = >                 activated are requesting further attention. ? >                 It looks like they too want to activate other   >                 shared images. > G > MONITOR:        Don't we have enough images?  That's been 16 already!  > < > IMAGE ACTIVATOR: Well, security is an important issue too.: >                 Wouldn't want our user to lose any data.C >                 Look here: CDDSHR wants us to bring in SECURESHR. G >                 Guess I'll just have to image-activate another one...  > < > USER:           (getting impatient) What's taking so long? > D > MONITOR:        We're putting all the pieces together for you now.+ >                 Shouldn't be much longer.  > H > USER:           Putting them together?  Doesn't it come all assembled? > J > MONITOR:        Not to worry.  There's no extra charge for installation. > I > IMAGE ACTIVATOR: There.  And now what?  Look at this: CDDSHR also wants E >                 us to activate LIBRTL, the common run-time library.  > 9 > MONITOR:        But didn't you already activate LIBRTL?  > ; > IMAGE ACTIVATOR: Right on baby!  Let me just look around.  >  >                 <pause>  > J > IMAGE ACTIVATOR: Oh there it is.  We have it mapped into memory already.< >                 I guess I'll just throw this request away. > > > MONITOR:        Do you get many of these redundant requests? > J > IMAGE ACTIVATOR: Yeah, they happen all the time. Nothing to worry about.J >                 You get used to it.  Look here, SCRSHR wants LIBRTL too;F >                 and so does SORTSHR, and COBRTL, and FORRTL, and ... > - > MONITOR:        Well hurry it along please.  > 4 > IMAGE ACTIVATOR: ... and FDVSHR and MTHRTL and ...F >                 Oh and look at this duplicate request for LBRSHR and7 >                 RDMSHR and RDBBSHR and VMSRTL and ...  > C > MONITOR:        VMSRTL?  I don't remember seeing that one before. . >                 What is it and who wants it? > H > IMAGE ACTIVATOR: Oops, you're right.  I almost overlooked this requestE >                 by RDBSHR.  It's easy to overlook this one; it's so A >                 small.  Only contains a few transfer vectors...  > ; > MONITOR:        Guess it should be easy to activate then?  > B > IMAGE ACTIVATOR: On the contrary.  This one attempts to activateG >                 the entire RTL!  Imagine that.  Oh well. That's life. G >                 Fortunately, I've already brought in most of the RTL. A >                 Let's see now, what else will we need?  Oh yes, D >                 BASRTL.  Can't imagine how we overlooked that one. > " > MONITOR:        Is that it then? > E > IMAGE ACTIVATOR: Yup. That's it.  She's all here.  You can go start  >                 her up!  > 9 > USER:           (pounding on keyboard) Where's my data!C > @ > MONITOR:        Please use voice input sir! Those CTRL/T's are? >                 MOST annoying.  They cause the most insidioussA >                 asynchronous traps to interrupt what I'm tryingt8 >                 to do.  We're starting your image now. > " > USER:           It's about time. > ; > MONITOR:        There. How's that?  Lovely data isn't it?- > 6 > USER:           I wouldn't know.  Where's my prompt? > 4 > MONITOR:        I don't know. Let me look into it. > 3 > MONITOR:        Control unit, where's his prompt?e > A > CONTROL UNIT:   We're executing instructions as fast as we can!d* >                 Oh my god! An exception! > 0 > MONITOR:        An exception! Is that serious? > H > CONTROL UNIT:   My mistake; it's not a hardware exception, it's merelyJ >                 a software exception.  Looks like the program signalled. > # > MONITOR:        Why'd it do that?, > F > CONTROL UNIT:   Well, this program is naturally user friendly, so itA >                 wants to start up by printing a welcome messageE" >                 on the terminal. > , > MONITOR:        So why doesn't it do that? > = > CONTROL UNIT:   Well the message is in a message file, sir.  >  > MONITOR:        Well get it! > A > CONTROL UNIT:   That's what we're trying to do.  You'll have totB >                 check with the system message handling facility.0 >                 It takes care of those things. > D > SYSTEM:         Ah, I have the message request now.  I'll have the& >                 message in a moment. > * > MONITOR:        Well, how do you get it? > E > SYSTEM:         No sweat, we'll just image activate the appropriate " >                 message section. > B > IMAGE ACTIVATOR: Oh no.  I thought I had a deserved rest coming. > 2 > SYSTEM:         Sorry, just a little bit longer. > ( > USER:           WHERE'S MY PROMPT!!!!! > > > MONITOR:        Keep your pants on.  Just be glad you're not6 >                 trying to activate any subprocesses. > A > IMAGE ACTIVATOR: Okay, one last time.  Which message section doa% >                 you need activated?: > A > SYSTEM:         I'm not sure.  Let's try DBMMSG. DBMSHR alertedi! >                 us to this one.  > G > IMAGE ACTIVATOR: (struggling) Okay. There it is. I've image-activatedy >                 DBMMSG.c > D > SYSTEM:         Sorry. It wasn't in that one. Try CDDSHR's message8 >                 section, CDDEXC.  Maybe it's in there. > " > IMAGE ACTIVATOR: Okay. (grumble) > = > SYSTEM:         Nope. It wasn't there either.  Try RDMSMSG.e > F > IMAGE ACTIVATOR: Look. I'm getting tired of this.  Couldn't you justB >                 give me the complete list of message sections to@ >                 activate?  I'll keep bringing them in until we? >                 find that damn message.  Exactly what messagee% >                 are we looking for?l > @ > SYSTEM:         Not sure yet, all I have is a number, but it'sF >                 probably something like "Welcome to VAX DATATRIEVE". >  > IMAGE ACTIVATOR: Well... >  > SYSTEM:         Well what? > 3 > IMAGE ACTIVATOR: That list of message sections...  > M > SYSTEM:         Oh yeah.  Well RDBSHR wants RDBMSGS, and not to be outdone,sJ >                 RDBBSHR wants RDBBMSGS, not to be confused with RDBMSGS,H >                 and DTRSHR wants DTRMSGS, and SORTSHR wants SHRIMGMSG,L >                 and lots of other guys are asking for SHRIMGMSG also - butK >                 I'm too smart for them.  I'll just get it once and no oneM0 >                 will ever know the difference. >  > IMAGE ACTIVATOR: Working...  > J > SYSTEM:         And don't forget FDVMSG.  The message might be in there  > too. >  > MONITOR:        OH NO! >  > SYSTEM:         What is it?r > % > IMAGE ACTIVATOR: Are you all right?r >  > MONITOR:        An interrupt!e >   > IMAGE ACTIVATOR: An interrupt? > 3 > MONITOR:        That's what I said, an interrupt. : >                 Image activator: stop what you're doing. > @ > IMAGE ACTIVATOR: Why?  Just when I was getting the hang of it. > , > MONITOR:        The user has typed CTRL/Y. > A > IMAGE ACTIVATOR: Okay, everything has been suspended.  Can I gon >                 to sleep now?  > D > MONITOR:        No, you better stick around in case the user wantsI >                 to continue.  And notify the exit routines to stand by.rJ >                 And the rundown procedures.  Also, I need moral support.F >                 Maybe if I flash a dollar sign in front of his eyes,. >                 he'll stop looking so angry. > = > USER:           Computer, I'm really getting tired of this.t > ) > MONITOR:        But we were so close.... > ! > USER:           A likely story.  > 5 > MONITOR:        Well what can I do for you instead?  > ? > USER:           I still want my report.  Let's try some other , >                 way of retrieving my data. > C > MONITOR:        A wonderful idea sir!  A finer day it couldn't beyJ >                 for looking over your data.  How will you have it today?4 >                 Sunny side up?  Once over lightly? > & > USER:           How about SCRAMBLED? > C > MONITOR:        No problem sir.  Wait one moment while I activatee >                 ENCRYPTSHR...a > 0 > the curtain falls as the dance begins again... >  >  >         The players: > & >         DTR32           VAX DTR V3.1& >         DTRSHR          VAX DTR V3.1$ >         CDDSHR          CDD T3.1-0) >         DBMSHR          VAX DBMS V2.2-3g >         RDBSHR          03-06 & >         RDMSHR          Rdb/VMS T1.1@ >         RDBBSHR         03-05           also known as RDBBSTUB! >         SORTSHR         V04-000l! >         COBRTL          V04-000y! >         FORRTL          V04-000 ! >         LIBRTL          V04-000f! >         MTHRTL          V04-000 " >         FDVSHR          FMS V2.2! >         LBRSHR          V04-000l! >         SCRSHR          V04-000T! >         EDTSHR          V04-000h! >         SECURESHR       V04-000a! >         VMSRTL          V04-000>! >         BASRTL          V04-000t >         DTRMSGS         03-05 $ >         CDDEXC          CDD T3.1-0 >         DBMMSG          03-03  >         RDMSMSG         03-05? >         RDBMSGS         03-06i >         RDBBMSGS        03-05d! >         SHRIMGMSG       V04-000 " >         FDVMSG          V2.1-003 > G >         for a grand total of 27 shared images and 153 image sections.  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 07:27:32 +0200 * From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net> Subject: Re: datatrieveh/ Message-ID: <40BAC244.5040506@sture.homeip.net>a   Keith Cayemberg wrote:1 > Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:e >  >>H >> No need to apologise; I have lived in Germany for more than 20 years! >>E > Oops! I wasn't thinking when I wrote that. I already knew you were  6 > posting from Germany from your obfuscated signature. > I > This July 20th, it will have been "only" 15 years since I immigrated to  > Germany from the U.S.t > . >> Thanks for the huge collection of pointers! >> > 9 > You're quite welcome. I hope you also find them useful.  >'  G I'll add my thanks for the list of pointer. I get a connection refused   messageI' when trying to access this link though:i  : http://www.decus.de:8080/www/common/vms/FUN/WOMBAT_JIM.JPG   --  J Rats, I wanted to see that wombat as it wouldn't display on the cr*ppy OEM  VTs we used all those years ago.  	 > Cheers!m >  > Keith 1 > (Still sometimes preferring DTR or RDML to SQL)t >   ! Yep. Know what you mean there :-)O   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 07:40:25 +0200l* From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net> Subject: Re: datatrievea* Message-ID: <2hvuqbFhf9q8U1@uni-berlin.de>   Michael Austin wrote:o8 > LOL--- someone had way too much time on their hands... >   G And on a serious note It was 1985/6 that I managed to cut the CPU time OI needed to load DTR on an 11/780 by over a second, simply by installing a eF load of those images. The ones for products we didn't have (e.g. RDB) . were just stubs so didn't carry much overhead.  % <famous Stan Rabinowitz tale snipped>    ------------------------------  + Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 22:18:26 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)! Subject: failed CXX installation?:$ Message-ID: <c9dmji$bui$1@online.de>  H Installing the latest CXX on VAX, I get the following error (this is the? contents of a file which was mentioned in the screen message as * containing more information on the error):  H MOVE_FILE CXX$PH_TEMP VMI$ROOT:[CXX$LIB.REFERENCE.CXXL$DEF_H]COMPLEX.H;   
 That's it.  I The same installation on another VAX, the main difference is that it has tF 64 MBRAM whereas the installation failed on a 32-MB RAM VAX, from the F same CD worked fine.  If it had been a resource problem, I would have  expected another message.t   Any idea what the above means?  B Has anyone tried to install the latest DECwindows on VAX from the H layered-product CDs?  PCSI hangs, CONTROL-T shows TYPE.  CONTROL-Y gets E things moving again and the installation appears to go OK from there.I   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 20:05:12 GMTt2 From: "Craig Marburger" <craig@marburgerdairy.com> Subject: routing table help?B Message-ID: <Y7ruc.15858$Tn6.496@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>   HiK     I have an alpha I am trying access over a vpn tunnel.  The alpha servertK has an address of 192.168.1.104 and it currently accept from 192.168.1.XXX.,H I want the alpha server to accept from 192.168.2.XXX for VPN traffic.  I have copied the routing table    TCPIP> show route/full  $                              DYNAMIC  < Type           Destination                           Gateway  C DN  * 0.0.0.0/24                                          * 0.0.0.0iF AH  * 127.0.0.1        LOCALHOST          * 127.0.0.1        LOCALHOSTE DN  * 192.168.1.0/24                                  * 192.168.1.104C SYS001 TCPIP>  L What changes need to be made to make this work.  Add/modifications.  Or am I doing the wrong thing?       Thanks   Craig Marburgere   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 01:40:24 GMT.1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>.  Subject: Re: routing table help?: Message-ID: <c2wuc.1858$fz.198@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>   Craig Marburger wrote:   > HiM >     I have an alpha I am trying access over a vpn tunnel.  The alpha serversM > has an address of 192.168.1.104 and it currently accept from 192.168.1.XXX. J > I want the alpha server to accept from 192.168.2.XXX for VPN traffic.  I > have copied the routing table  >  > TCPIP> show route/full > & >                              DYNAMIC > > > Type           Destination                           Gateway > E > DN  * 0.0.0.0/24                                          * 0.0.0.0tH > AH  * 127.0.0.1        LOCALHOST          * 127.0.0.1        LOCALHOSTG > DN  * 192.168.1.0/24                                  * 192.168.1.104n > SYS001 > TCPIP> > N > What changes need to be made to make this work.  Add/modifications.  Or am I > doing the wrong thing? >  >  >  > Thanks >  > Craig Marburgerc >  >  >   E You need to give us a clearer picture of this VPN tunnel.. how is it   configured?g  H Let's say for argument sake that your VPN tunnel is used via a true VPN ' router configuration... something like:o  H [LAN]--->[Home office VPN Router]=====//=====[VPN Router]--[office2 LAN]  9 Then, you need to define a "default" gateway somewhere...M  G In my case, I use DSL (no VPN) and my default gateway points to my DSL W Router (192.168.1.1)  ! Try defining 1) a default gatewayLH TCPIP SET ROUTE/NET/DEFAULT/PERM /GATEWAY=192.168.1.1 !! The address of  your VPN router)  " Defining a route to the VPN routerE 2) TCPIP SET ROUTE/PERM 192.168.2.0/NET/MASK=24 /GATE=<VPN ROUTER IP>   A Without knowing much else about your network it would be hard to S speculate much further.   I You also need to make sure  your VPN routers are pointing traffic to the O connect LANS/WANS as well.   Michael Austin   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 00:07:12 +0200  From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>  Subject: Re: Sortwork file query2 Message-ID: <c9dlui$k8n$1@news1.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>   Paul Sture wrote:t > Dirk Munk wrote: >  >> Adrian Birkett wrote: >> >>> Hi,l >>>rC >>> One of out applications sorts a file. The logical names of the .H >>> sortwork files are defined as DSA1:[NODIR]. This directory does not H >>> exist on the device and the files are showing in SDA as DSA1:[]. Is H >>> there any way of viewing these files to get an idea of how big they G >>> are as the seem to be eating disk space at  quite an alarming rate?R >>>aH >> You don't tell us what you are sorting. If these are files that were B >> made with a C program, the please keep in mind that C produces H >> Stream-lf files with a fake record size that is the maximum that RMS  >> supports (32 kB). >>G >> You may have to add a record-size switch with the sort command, whe .! >> you know the true record size.n >> >  > Dirk,g > K > I had the same idea, and in case you missed it, Adrian replied with this:A > A > "No, the program is written in COBOL and is run under the CODA  H > environment. The file in question has 4 keys in 5 areas which doesn't  > really help" >  Hi Paul,   I indeed missed his reply.  O But here is something I don't understand. Am I wrong in the assumption that he aD is sorting a indexed file ?? The output may be sequential of course.  O As an ex-COBOL programmer I know that there are two ways to use sort in COBOL. oO For input you can tell COBOL to sort a file, or you can write a procedure that  M outputs records to sort. The same system applies to output as well. The sort  Q output can be returned as a file, or it can be read record by record in a output eP procedure for further processing. I'm sure choosing the right method can mean a ' lot for the size of the sort workfiles.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 07:18:54 +0200n* From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>  Subject: Re: Sortwork file query* Message-ID: <2hvthvFgtrvhU1@uni-berlin.de>   Dirk Munk wrote: > Paul Sture wrote:  >  >> Dirk Munk wrote:o >> >>> Adrian Birkett wrote:r >>>w >>>> Hi, >>>>D >>>> One of out applications sorts a file. The logical names of the I >>>> sortwork files are defined as DSA1:[NODIR]. This directory does not  I >>>> exist on the device and the files are showing in SDA as DSA1:[]. Is uI >>>> there any way of viewing these files to get an idea of how big they OH >>>> are as the seem to be eating disk space at  quite an alarming rate? >>>>I >>> You don't tell us what you are sorting. If these are files that were oC >>> made with a C program, the please keep in mind that C produces  I >>> Stream-lf files with a fake record size that is the maximum that RMS   >>> supports (32 kB).n >>> H >>> You may have to add a record-size switch with the sort command, whe " >>> you know the true record size. >>>t >> >> Dirk, >>L >> I had the same idea, and in case you missed it, Adrian replied with this: >>B >> "No, the program is written in COBOL and is run under the CODA I >> environment. The file in question has 4 keys in 5 areas which doesn't   >> really help"e >>
 > Hi Paul, >  > I indeed missed his reply. > I > But here is something I don't understand. Am I wrong in the assumption eG > that he is sorting a indexed file ?? The output may be sequential of e	 > course.u >   # I think your assumption is correct.   J > As an ex-COBOL programmer I know that there are two ways to use sort in I > COBOL. For input you can tell COBOL to sort a file, or you can write a RE > procedure that outputs records to sort. The same system applies to nJ > output as well. The sort output can be returned as a file, or it can be J > read record by record in a output procedure for further processing. I'm I > sure choosing the right method can mean a lot for the size of the sort s > workfiles. >   F The COBOL input and output sort procedures are a very useful feature, I and your mentioning them reminds me that the output file could be a full YC blown report with sub-totals, grand totals etc, rather than just a  D sequential file. Changing such a program could be a major task, and D since CODA is a large financial system, we don't know if Adrian has 8 access to the sources to see what processing is involved   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 10:01:38 +0800e+ From: Tim E Sneddon <tesneddon@bigpond.com>? Subject: TECO on Itanium...u* Message-ID: <2hvi06Fh7l51U1@uni-berlin.de>  ? Does any one know if there will be TECO on VMS I64? My employer < received their first Itanium last week with VMS V8.1, but it appears to be missing TECO :-( e  " Larry K., have you heard anything?  
 Regards, Tim.A   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 22:20:19 GMTo/ From: "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@spyderbyte.com>.8 Subject: The Inquirer: CA to Open Source Ingres Database< Message-ID: <D6tuc.9465$Ef3.437068@twister.southeast.rr.com>  / The Inquirer: CA to Open Source Ingres Database,) http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=16222     5 -----------------------------------------------------  Kenneth R. Farmer <><I1 http://www.OpenVMS.org  |  http://dcl.OpenVMS.orgo   ------------------------------  + Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 18:01:37 +0000 (UTC)gP From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)5 Subject: Re: [DECset V12.5] Current LSE/SCA version ? $ Message-ID: <c9d7i1$tdp$2@online.de>  E In article <newscache$9lfjyh$0br$1@news.sil.at>, peter@langstoeger.at?$ (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) writes:    > Now a (rhetorical) question: > H > In previous occurences I found every time the version of LSE (LanguageG > Sensitive Editor) and SCA (Source Code Analyzer) identical. Even this/I > time, SPL lists both as one item with UPI 057AA and version V4.8 (which   > is contained in DECset V12.5). > N > I did install DECset (months ago) and found that LSE is V4.8 and SCA is V4.7 > Now, is there a SCA V4.8 ?  D For a long time, Fortran and VMS had the same version numbes, but I  believe that has changed now.    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.300 ************************