1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 05 Nov 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 614       Contents:* Re: DecWindows performance on old hardware Re: Developer Forum  Re: Developer Forum ; OpenVMS 7.2 , 'Secure' FTP Transmissions to Non-VMS Partner ? Re: OpenVMS 7.2 , 'Secure' FTP Transmissions to Non-VMS Partner ? Re: OpenVMS 7.2 , 'Secure' FTP Transmissions to Non-VMS Partner  OpenVMS to be sold?  Re: OpenVMS to be sold?  Re: OpenVMS to be sold? $ Re: OT: Election technology question' Re: Request for feedback - COPY utility ' Re: Request for feedback - COPY utility ' Re: Request for feedback - COPY utility ( Re: Samba 2.2.8 for OpenVMS, new release' RE: Service Contract for Alpha Hardware ' Re: Service Contract for Alpha Hardware ' Re: Service Contract for Alpha Hardware  Re: Time Change   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 06:26:25 +0100 5 From: Ulrich Bellgardt <Ulrich.bellgardt@debitel.net> 3 Subject: Re: DecWindows performance on old hardware 5 Message-ID: <418b0f03$0$145$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>   / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:   I > I have a DEC 3000 model 600, also with 192 MB memory, which I use ONLY   > for DECwindows:    [...]   E > At some point, I might upgrade the VMS on this system (it's not so  I > urgent, since I just use it as a display).  Obviously, I don't want to    > see things slow down too much.  A Martin Kirby convinced me that the performance issues I mentioned G in my first posting were non-issues. After that I only modified the key @ map file that I use to change the keyboard into something usefulC resembling a real LKA201, and let Linux do the xmodmap work instead 7 of VMS. Before, I executed xmodmap in LOGIN.COM, but on ? VMS 7.3-2 and DECWindows Motif V1.3-1, "$ xmodmap  keyfile.dat" B takes about 5 seconds, compared to less than 1 second on VMS 7.2-1 and Motif V1.2-5.   ? After the two mentioned changes, DECWindows runs smoothly on my + old Alpha, with a satisfactory performance.   .  > [...] Do you have a possibility to test the:  > performance with a directly connected graphics monitor?  >  < Sorry no, my DEC 3000 runs with a VT220 as console terminal.   Regards, -Uli Bellgardt   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 15:29:08 -0500< From: "Peter Weaver" <WeaverConsultingServices@sympatico.ca> Subject: Re: Developer Forum+ Message-ID: <2uvhomF2cpn0tU1@uni-berlin.de>    John Smith wrote:  > Peter Weaver wrote:  >> John Smith wrote:F >>> Got a phone call recently from HP soliciting our attendance at oneG >>> of the Intel/HP Developer Forums....the one where they give you the % >>> Itanic at the end of the program.  >>> C >>> Are others being solicited by telephone this way? Just curious.  >>? >> Yes, even though I attended the Toronto event two weeks ago.  >  > F > You should go a few more times. That way you'll wind-up with a bunchG > of new hardware at cheap prices to build your own Itanic cluster with 
 > quorum. ;-)   H Actually, while I was there I did cluster the Itanium with CHARON-VAX on
 my laptop. :)    --   Peter Weaver Weaver Consulting Services Inc.  Canadian VAR for CHARON-VAX  www.weaverconsulting.ca    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 17:06:21 -0500# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>  Subject: Re: Developer Forum, Message-ID: <9--dnTIf5KR_OhfcRVn-3w@igs.net>   Peter Weaver wrote:  > John Smith wrote:  >> Peter Weaver wrote: >>> John Smith wrote: G >>>> Got a phone call recently from HP soliciting our attendance at one H >>>> of the Intel/HP Developer Forums....the one where they give you the& >>>> Itanic at the end of the program. >>>>D >>>> Are others being solicited by telephone this way? Just curious. >>> @ >>> Yes, even though I attended the Toronto event two weeks ago. >> >>G >> You should go a few more times. That way you'll wind-up with a bunch H >> of new hardware at cheap prices to build your own Itanic cluster with >> quorum. ;-) > G > Actually, while I was there I did cluster the Itanium with CHARON-VAX  > on my laptop. :)   Now that's cool!!    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 14:03:44 -0500" From: "BillC" <bclark_at_lrgh.org>D Subject: OpenVMS 7.2 , 'Secure' FTP Transmissions to Non-VMS Partner= Message-ID: <8_2dnZW2Funf4RfcRVn-1w@metrocastcablevision.com>   K greetings - Healthcare Environment, regularly 'share' files with Government  and Private G (Commercial) healthcare organizations. Am anticipating a requirement to  'SECURE'L data transmissions and would like to know if OpenVMS tools capable of Secure transmissions are available.% Thanks in advance for any information    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 22:05:00 +0100 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> H Subject: Re: OpenVMS 7.2 , 'Secure' FTP Transmissions to Non-VMS Partner' Message-ID: <418A997C.DF9CC9EA@aaa.com>   A Encrypt your files (PHP or other packages). Then you can send the C files anyway you like. ASCII encoding them (MIME, UU, MPACK, Base64 > whatever) and just send them as an email. Easy to setup and no+ costly messaging infrastructure to install.   9 But I think you have to define "'SECURE'" a bit better...   	 Jan-Erik.    BillC wrote: > M > greetings - Healthcare Environment, regularly 'share' files with Government 
 > and Private I > (Commercial) healthcare organizations. Am anticipating a requirement to 
 > 'SECURE'N > data transmissions and would like to know if OpenVMS tools capable of Secure > transmissions are available.' > Thanks in advance for any information    ------------------------------   Date: 4 Nov 2004 17:21:25 -0600 4 From: kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow)H Subject: Re: OpenVMS 7.2 , 'Secure' FTP Transmissions to Non-VMS Partner3 Message-ID: <A64tDHPn1lVy@eisner.encompasserve.org>   b In article <8_2dnZW2Funf4RfcRVn-1w@metrocastcablevision.com>, "BillC" <bclark_at_lrgh.org> writes:M > greetings - Healthcare Environment, regularly 'share' files with Government 
 > and Private I > (Commercial) healthcare organizations. Am anticipating a requirement to 
 > 'SECURE'N > data transmissions and would like to know if OpenVMS tools capable of Secure > transmissions are available.' > Thanks in advance for any information   C It's been a long time since I looked at it, but having worked for a K 'healthcare' company in the recent past, take a look at Connect Direct from ! Sterling. There is a VMS version.   1 	Bob Kaplow	NAR # 18L	TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" & 		>>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<<K Kaplow Klips & Baffle:	http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf L     www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/    www.nira-rocketry.org    www.nar.org  1 	26-October, 2001: A day that will live in infamy 4 	Support Freedom: http://www.indefenseoffreedom.org/  K         "For as adamant as my country has been about civil liberties duirng I         peacetime, it has a long history ... of failing to preserve civil J         liberties when it perceived its national security threatened." -- 4         former Supreme Court Justice William Brennan   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Nov 2004 16:45:00 -0800 ( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) Subject: OpenVMS to be sold?= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0411041645.4e7fd63d@posting.google.com>   ( that is what is being mentioned here ...  A http://www.shannonknowshpc.com/stories.php?story=04/11/02/3436734    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 20:30:47 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>   Subject: Re: OpenVMS to be sold?, Message-ID: <418AD7B8.CD31C4DA@teksavvy.com>   Bob Ceculski wrote: * > that is what is being mentioned here ...C > http://www.shannonknowshpc.com/stories.php?story=04/11/02/3436734    All of the above.   5 It is no surprise that Tru64 development would stop.  J There have been plenty of rumours of some spinning off of some part of HP.' HP will continue to outsource to India. Q Now, if HP were to de-emphasize HP-UX, it would essentially mean the end of IA64.     N The only point of interest in that article is a mention from Shannon that fromG hsi point of view, he is seing a greater than avreage number of rumours  floating around.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 22:16:18 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>  Subject: Re: OpenVMS to be sold?+ Message-ID: <418AFE91.13F6E903@comcast.net>    JF Mezei wrote:  >  > Bob Ceculski wrote: , > > that is what is being mentioned here ...E > > http://www.shannonknowshpc.com/stories.php?story=04/11/02/3436734  >  > All of the above.  > 6 > It is no surprise that Tru64 development would stop.L > There have been plenty of rumours of some spinning off of some part of HP.) > HP will continue to outsource to India. S > Now, if HP were to de-emphasize HP-UX, it would essentially mean the end of IA64.   D ...and following The Alphacide, the sinking of Itanic would take VMS with it.  A That said, perhaps someone of intelligence, wisdom and vision may E acquire OpenVMS, and not only continue the I64 product, but expand it ; into x86-64 and (dare we dream?) perhaps even a native IA32 C implementation (accompanied by 39 virgins?) thus assuring VMS of at 2 least as much future as any other Intel-based o.s.  0 NNNNAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH..................   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------   Date: 4 Nov 2004 17:19:17 -0600 4 From: kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow)- Subject: Re: OT: Election technology question 3 Message-ID: <frT8278fITEm@eisner.encompasserve.org>   e In article <9595AB37Awspenceraporg@216.168.3.30>, wspencer@ap.dontspamme.org (Warren Spencer) writes:  > Hi Folks,  > G > Since I've been working for The AP for the last 4 years, I'll try to  " > address some of these questions. > J > Things have changed since 2000 - VNS, the Voter News Service, no longer H > exists.  They did exit polls - I think we're doing them now.  An exit L > poller just asks people leaving the voting booth how they voted - if they E > want to say.  This info is used to predict the winners - sometimes  K > inaccurately, as we saw last election.  But these numbers can be helpful  C > because they can be collected before ballot counting is complete.  > N > Ballots are counted in the precinct where they are cast, and phoned into a  M > county office.  The AP has staff at each county office, and they phone the  L > counts in our Elections contact center in New York City, where data entry L > occurs.  Additionally, some states provide automated feeds, which we take N > in leiu of phone-ins.  Automated feeds are provided over private circuits -  > not the Internet.  > L > Our primary elections back end is all VMS - it receives and tabulates the N > counts. We have redundant systems ready to go in a western state.  But this ? > addresses only the collection and tabulation of the election.  > N > The other part of all this is distribution of the results.  Most major news M > organizations buy our elections feed, which contains the latest results as  F > they happen.  The feeds are delivered via a number of technologies, " > including Solaris, Windows, etc.  L Is this information available on the web, or to the general public? Or is it# only available to major newspapers?   K Once again the Chicago Tribune thinks that my vote doesn't count, and thus  K wasn't worth publishing in their paper. As my .sig said for the past couple L weeks, the only wasted vote is voting for the lesser of two evils. There wasL absolutely NO mention of any third party candidates in their coverage of theK presidental election, at the local, state, or national level. Nor was it on J their web site, at least as of yesterday evening. It's as if my vote neverL happened. It's bad enough that they ignore my views and my candidates beforeI the election. If they can get on the ballot, they deserve to be reported.   1 	Bob Kaplow	NAR # 18L	TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" & 		>>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<<K Kaplow Klips & Baffle:	http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf L     www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/    www.nira-rocketry.org    www.nar.org  1 	26-October, 2001: A day that will live in infamy 4 	Support Freedom: http://www.indefenseoffreedom.org/  K         "For as adamant as my country has been about civil liberties duirng I         peacetime, it has a long history ... of failing to preserve civil J         liberties when it perceived its national security threatened." -- 4         former Supreme Court Justice William Brennan   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 00:39:34 GMT 6 From: "Andy Bustamante" <a_c_bustamante@earthlink.net>0 Subject: Re: Request for feedback - COPY utility> Message-ID: <aZzid.38647$QJ3.36829@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>  F We use copy every night.  On the majority of my sites, I create a diskJ backup ($ copy my$database:*.dat /excl=big_static_file.dat my$backup:*.* )L In  large cases this takes 30-45 minutes and adds to a downtime window.  TheK backup files are then used to create a tape backup.  This reduces down time H and reduces the number of disks that BACKUP does i/o on.  In my example,. my$database is defined to span multiple disks.       Andy Bustamante  Remove the ASCII 95s for e-mail     ; "Guy Peleg" <guy.peleg@remove_this_hp.com> wrote in message $ news:418a0010@usenet01.boi.hp.com...  + > Are you currently using COPY intensivley? 6 > Do you think you will benefit from this enhancement? > @ > You may post a reply here or send me mail directly, my mailbox > can tolerate anything. >  > Thank you for your time. >  > Guy Peleg  > OpenVMS Engineering  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 22:04:06 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>0 Subject: Re: Request for feedback - COPY utility+ Message-ID: <418AFBB6.597165CB@comcast.net>    Andy Bustamante wrote: > H > We use copy every night.  On the majority of my sites, I create a diskL > backup ($ copy my$database:*.dat /excl=big_static_file.dat my$backup:*.* )N > In  large cases this takes 30-45 minutes and adds to a downtime window.  TheM > backup files are then used to create a tape backup.  This reduces down time J > and reduces the number of disks that BACKUP does i/o on.  In my example,0 > my$database is defined to span multiple disks.   Andy,   B I realize it may not fit your budget, but splitting shadow-sets orG mirror-sets (takes a second or two, or ten) would be a VAST improvement 
 over that!   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 22:08:13 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>0 Subject: Re: Request for feedback - COPY utility+ Message-ID: <418AFCAD.53665370@comcast.net>    Guy Peleg wrote: > < > As you know we are getting ready to ship V8.2 and starting/ > to look at enhancements for the next version.  > K > One of the projects high on my to do list is performance improvements for H > the copy utility. Today reads and writes are done synchronously. I wasH > testing a variant of the fastcopy program (with few enhancements I putD > in) and got dramatic performance improvements comparing to currentF > copy.  A very dirty and unofficial test, copying 170MB file from one > directory  > to another on the same disk  > " > On V7.3-2 (using 127 blocks I/O) >   > Charged CPU time was 4 seconds  > Elapsed CPU time was 2 minutes > Total number of I/Os was 5700  >  > Using my prototype:  > ' > Charged CPU time was 00:00.15 seconds ! > Elapsed CPU time was 40 seconds  > Total number of I/Os was 2800  > N > We are doing some tests on EVAs to get more results but there is no surprise: > using fewer and larger asynchronous I/Os is faster...;-) > > > What I'm looking from you is ammunition I can include in the; > internal project proposal that will be presented to mgmt.  > + > Are you currently using COPY intensivley? 6 > Do you think you will benefit from this enhancement? > @ > You may post a reply here or send me mail directly, my mailbox > can tolerate anything.  4 Thanx Much, Guy, for your efforts! Much appreciated!  H Some folks seem to use COPY between directories on the same volume quite1 heavily, it seems, from reading the other posts.    F When I need to do such, it's usually disk-to-disk, and sometimes I use BACKUP just to speed things up.   G For moving files between directories on a volume, I usually use RENAME, G but I still end up cleaning up other folks' code where they do the COPY  first, then delete the source.   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 21:50:50 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>1 Subject: Re: Samba 2.2.8 for OpenVMS, new release + Message-ID: <418AF899.55CDC557@comcast.net>    "John E. Malmberg" wrote:  > [snip]  E I sense this is on the border of devolving into a "religious war", so $ let me sum it up as simply as I can:  G At some point , the Samba team will have to "put a stake in the ground" @ and say, "HPSS (HP Secure Samba, or whatvere it might be called)H requires OpenVMS Vx.y-z or later", just as the SWS team did. That pretty+ well solves the great bulk of the problems.   @ I still maintain, and will not be swayed from, the position thatA requiring installation by building from source, and requiring the G presence of a prescribed build environment on the customers' machine to = install Samba from source is wholly, entirely and irrevocably G unacceptable, and making such a demand will render the entire effort an  abysmal failure.    F Linking from object at install time is a proven, reliable distributionA method. Contact Process Software and solicit their experience for E specifics. (BEFORE you click that <Reply> button, remember: "requires  OpenVMS Vx.y-z or later".)  H Now, I always say, "Prove me wrong", and anyone can feel free to take meF up on that challenge. I would caution that careful assessment prior toF doing so would be very wise, and extremely highly recommendable before# the corporation invests dollar one.    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 20:54:00 -0500' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> 0 Subject: RE: Service Contract for Alpha HardwareR Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB4A4327@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----9 > From: Roy Omond [mailto:Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com]=20   > Sent: November 4, 2004 9:23 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 2 > Subject: Re: Service Contract for Alpha Hardware >=20 > Keith Cayemberg wrote: > > [...snip...] > >=20" > > _VMS HARDWARE REPAIR SERVICES_ > >=20 > > ABACUS COMPUTING - UK , > > http://www.abacus-computing.com/home.htm > >=20! > > Beovax Computer Services - UK % > > http://www.beovax.co.uk/index.htm  >=20; > How strange that Keith didn't mention his *own* company !  >=20: > In the UK, the main Alpha Hardware maintenance companies9 > with whom I deal on a daily basis are (in no particular 
 > order:-) >=20+ > o	Synstar (very recently purchased by HP)  > o	Maindec  > o	Fujitsu (formerly ICL)	 > and ...  > o	IBM  >=20 > Roy Omond  > Blue Bubble Ltd. >=20   Roy,  G For all the marketing and positioning, both IBM and HP do a fair amount H of business with each other. Both companies order and support the others? hardware and software as our Customers requirements dictate.=20   F Any SI who does not do this is not really in the solutions integration	 business.   E Some examples - I have been on the phone providing support for IBM on E relatively obscure OpenVMS issues their Customers were having. I have F also been lead SA for large RFP's where we have positioned competitorsH gear (including SUN btw) as that is what the Customer was looking for orF what made the most sense. In the Managed Services business, it is evenD more transparent where HP staff supports very large installations of/ z/OS, Solaris, AIX and many other platforms.=20   = IBM does the same thing with HP / Sun / ?? platforms as well.   ' New theme these days is coopetition.=20    :-)    Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  $ "OpenVMS has always had integrity .. Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .."   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Nov 2004 19:41:57 -0800 ! From: dcs8506@bellsouth.net (RHB) 0 Subject: Re: Service Contract for Alpha Hardware= Message-ID: <221a1b70.0411041941.2c9854b8@posting.google.com>   z Keith Cayemberg <keith.cayemberg@arcor.de> wrote in message news:<418a3841$0$22607$9b4e6d93@newsread4.arcor-online.net>... > Jay E. Morris wrote: > I > > My group has used DEC/Compaq/HP for service forever but another group H > > had let their service contract lapse.  Now they are trying to get itH > > started again but the AF contracting office requires three companiesG > > on the request.  Believe it or not, contracting will make the final . > > decision on who it goes to, not the users. > > I > > But I digress and could bitch for pages and pages about contracting.  C > > What I need is two companies providing hardware maintenance for J > > Alphas.  National companies would probably be best but if anyone knows4 > > of San Antonio, TX companies that'd be good too. > > I > > And although I hate to ask and WILL BE checking the group frequently, J > > I would appreciate any responses being cc'd to jay.morris at brooks af > > mil. > >  > > Thanks.  >      > _VMS HARDWARE REPAIR SERVICES_ >  > ABACUS COMPUTING - UK * > http://www.abacus-computing.com/home.htm >  > Beovax Computer Services - UK # > http://www.beovax.co.uk/index.htm  >  > Digiworks Co., Ltd. - Korea  > http://www.dgwrks.com/ > / > Equipment Management Inc. - DEC repairs - USA + > http://emisolutions.com/DECInventory.ivnu  >  > IGS Systems  - DECparts.Com - > Digital Equipment Parts & Supplies Wordwide  > http://www.decparts.com/% > http://www.decparts.com/Repair.aspx  > > > Kender Thijssen Belgium - ICT solutions and computer rentals6 > http://www.kender-thijssen.be/asp/home.asp?lang_id=3@ > http://www.kender-thijssen.nl/asp/content/home.asp?menu_id=204 >  > Keyways - USA  > http://www.keyways.com/  > . > Lightning Systems - UK - Repair of Terminals$ > http://www.lightningsystems.co.uk/ > E > Nemonix Engineering - USA - Repair of Digital Compaq computer parts . > http://www.nemonixengineering.com/repair.htm; > http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=04/06/28/6005658  > 0 > Resource Development Computers - Repairs - USA* > http://www.resdev.com/html/repairs.shtml > ) > System Maintenance Services, Inc. - USA $ > http://www.sysmaint.com/index.html > G > VARx Incorporated - USA - DEC field service, DEC VAX and DEC ALPHA HW  > http://www.varx.com/ >  > 	 > Cheers!  >  > Keith Cayemberg   6 Add Decade Computer Services, Inc. www.decade.com  USA. big in military contracts, on site since 1980.   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Nov 2004 20:30:16 -0800  From: ohm62@hotmail.com (OHM) 0 Subject: Re: Service Contract for Alpha Hardware= Message-ID: <9d337b47.0411042030.67a66c91@posting.google.com>   ! SMS works good for us too...  :-)      -- OHM   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 21:54:50 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> Subject: Re: Time Change+ Message-ID: <418AF98A.5E84351D@comcast.net>    prep@prep.synonet.com wrote: > 6 > David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes: > F > > Well, I discovered that XNTP differs from NTP; however, the latest2 > > versions have again been renamed NTP (no "X"). >  > > Dub-dub-dub-dub-dub... >  > XNTP uses ntp V3, NTP is V4.  F Well, to be more precise, NTP was V1 and V2, XNTP is/was V3 and NTP(2) is V4.  , > IF you want to complain to Jim Mills et al > about V3 then tough!  F More likely complain to Process Software about the name confusion, but9 they were just following the industry - can't blame them.   L > The main loop code and the like have been completly overhauled for ntp V4," > they are very different animals.  C ...which is fine, as long as the servers and clients at the various ! strata can all still communicate.    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.614 ************************