1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 16 Nov 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 636       Contents:$ Re: 3of9 Barcoding libraries for VMS$ Re: 3of9 Barcoding libraries for VMS4 common code base for ALPHA and Itanium and compilers8 Re: common code base for ALPHA and Itanium and compilers8 Re: common code base for ALPHA and Itanium and compilers8 Re: common code base for ALPHA and Itanium and compilers" Re: Cross-platform Backup Solution Dead disk that wasn't?$ EXE files different after ZIP/UNZIP?$ EXE files different after ZIP/UNZIP?( Re: EXE files different after ZIP/UNZIP?: Re: Extending DCL [was: Re: DCL suggestion for f$verify()]" Re: FAST BOOT OF SIMH VAX Emulator" Re: FAST BOOT OF SIMH VAX Emulator" Re: FAST BOOT OF SIMH VAX EmulatorD Re: FBI turned AMERICA into a NATION of PROGRAMMED SLAVES and ROBOTS4 Re: Looking for feedback on using EDM to back up VMS4 Re: Looking for feedback on using EDM to back up VMS4 Re: Looking for feedback on using EDM to back up VMS4 Re: Looking for feedback on using EDM to back up VMS Re: Oracle DST Setting.  Re: Oracle DST Setting.  Re: OT: Reality check on RFID  Re: OT: Reality check on RFID  Re: Problem to Partition a disk  Re: raid hardware  Re: raid hardware  Re: Reality check on RFID  RE: Reality check on RFID % Re: RMS Files and directories Indexes % Re: RMS Files and directories Indexes % Re: RMS Files and directories Indexes % Re: RMS Files and directories Indexes % Re: RMS Files and directories Indexes % Re: RMS Files and directories Indexes % Re: RMS Files and directories Indexes " Re: Solaris 10 - no charge for o/s" Re: Solaris 10 - no charge for o/s" Re: Solaris 10 - no charge for o/s" Re: Solaris 10 - no charge for o/s" Re: Solaris 10 - no charge for o/s" Re: Solaris 10 - no charge for o/s" Re: Solaris 10 - no charge for o/s" Re: Solaris 10 - no charge for o/s" Re: Solaris 10 - no charge for o/s" Re: Solaris 10 - no charge for o/s" Re: Solaris 10 - no charge for o/s" Re: Solaris 10 - no charge for o/s" Re: Solaris 10 - no charge for o/s" Re: Solaris 10 - no charge for o/s SSH For the VAX  ssh set password Re: ssh set password( Re: this newsgroup heavily trolled by JF- What is status %X0760822A from ROBOT utility?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 13:40:33 -0700 + From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> - Subject: Re: 3of9 Barcoding libraries for VMS ' Message-ID: <41991441.6030200@MMaz.com>    Bart Z. Lederman wrote:   T >In article <00A3AE71.0A96095F@SendSpamHere.ORG>, VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: >    > l >>In article <468e9718.0411141602.4208d890@posting.google.com>, info@montereysoft.com (MontereySoft) writes: >>     >>] >>>"Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> wrote in message news:<4188070F.7020708@MMaz.com>... 	 >>>        >>> L >>>>Does anyone know of any open-source libraries that would run on VMS for H >>>>producing 3of9 barcoding ?  I need to modify some of our systems to J >>>>produce embedded barcoding on our documents and I suspect that if any M >>>>commercial products existed in the past, they are probably gone or owned  0 >>>>my CA and CA would want 6 figures for it.... >>>>	 >>>>Barry  >>>>         >>>>5 >>>Here you go http://www.morovia.com/font/code39.asp 	 >>>        >>> + >>...for Windows and Macintosh platforms...  >>I >>Barry specifically asked for:  run on VMS for producing 3of9 barcoding.  >>     >> > @ >While it isn't an application, and I'm not officially endorsingB >any specific vendor, the fonts offered for sale at that site willC >work with DECwindows applications.  Out of curiosity, I downloaded B >their demo file and found that the windows format true type fontsG >can be added to DECwindows and will display in some test applications. $ >Some other formats might also work. > H >You should be able to print bar codes by just selecting the appropriate >font. >    > I You're missing the original point of my post, I have an application that  I must produce embedded bar coded content, so whether DW is running or not  G is immaterial and in my case, we don't run it!  And just fonts, though  G nice for reference, is useless unless I'm willing to code the routines  H to use those fonts which is why I was looking for libraries with API's, ( or complete packages that could bolt on!   Barry    --    < Barry Treahy, Jr                     E-mail: Treahy@MMaz.com< Midwest Microwave, Inc.                  Phone: 480/314-1320< Vice President & CIO                      FAX:  480/661-7028  I                        ... but it's a DRY HEAT!                              ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 19:28:20 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> - Subject: Re: 3of9 Barcoding libraries for VMS , Message-ID: <41994957.FC4297E9@teksavvy.com>   "Barry Treahy, Jr." wrote:H > is immaterial and in my case, we don't run it!  And just fonts, thoughH > nice for reference, is useless unless I'm willing to code the routinesI > to use those fonts which is why I was looking for libraries with API's, * > or complete packages that could bolt on!  I You need to be more specific about what your application does and what it ; prints things on (postscript, HP or specialized printer ?).   E If you're supplied postscript fonts, your API is postscript. It isn't L complicated to include the font definition, then define a command that loads the font and then just uses as:   * x y moveto  set_barcode  (*38373737*) show  C You also haven't described your current environnement for that app.    ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 22:28:48 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)= Subject: common code base for ALPHA and Itanium and compilers $ Message-ID: <cnbaj0$v9e$1@online.de>  C Back in the good old days, everything came from DEC---hardware, OS, H compilers, peripherals.  It all worked very well together and was one ofH the many things that made DEC great.  If something didn't work, one knewA to blame DEC---but everything always did work.  Now, with all the G buy-outs and mergers and people changing jobs, the situation has become  a bit more confusing.   D Fortunately, there is, I read here, a common code base for ALPHA andG Itanium.  Presumably, this means that, at least as long as ALPHA is not G in maintenance mode, there will be feature parity.  However, I'm in the H dark about what the situation is with compilers.  If I recall correctly,D most or all are still on the quarterly CD distribution.  Can someoneD post a list of a) who actually builds/maintains each compiler and b)F whether or not there is a common code base between ALPHA and Itanium. H (I'm particularly interested in how many Fortran2003 features will make G it into the ALPHA compiler and what the status of the Fortran compiler  G on Itanium is (I don't have an Itanium machine at home yet), but would  < like to get an overview of the situation for all compilers.)   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Nov 2004 19:48:16 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) A Subject: Re: common code base for ALPHA and Itanium and compilers 3 Message-ID: <izkYxH$Kjmzc@eisner.encompasserve.org>   w In article <cnbaj0$v9e$1@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes:   F > Fortunately, there is, I read here, a common code base for ALPHA andI > Itanium.  Presumably, this means that, at least as long as ALPHA is not I > in maintenance mode, there will be feature parity.  However, I'm in the 2 > dark about what the situation is with compilers.  G The parts of VMS that _must_ be different for a particular architecture L are those that deal with the hardware directly, including memory management, etc.  J For compilers the parts that _must_ be different for a particular (target)D architecture are much larger, because they are the "back end" of the	 compiler.    > If I recall correctly,F > most or all are still on the quarterly CD distribution.  Can someoneF > post a list of a) who actually builds/maintains each compiler and b)H > whether or not there is a common code base between ALPHA and Itanium.   D I doubt there is a central database answering the "common code base"C question for all compilers.  Even for VMS there are some components B where the source code just gets copied between the VAX cluster andC the non-VAX cluster.  In effect the code is common, but without any ' configuration guarantee to that effect.   D If HP gets a particular compiler from Intel (regardless of the brandE name that will go on it), the degree to which it is "common code" (as D distinguished from "common features") may not be officially known to4 HP, and certainly not officially committed by Intel.  J > (I'm particularly interested in how many Fortran2003 features will make I > it into the ALPHA compiler and what the status of the Fortran compiler  I > on Itanium is (I don't have an Itanium machine at home yet), but would  > > like to get an overview of the situation for all compilers.)  E The Fortran developers work for Intel.  I don't know whose brand name . comes on the Fortran Compiler for Itanium VMS.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 02:30:07 GMT & From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com>A Subject: Re: common code base for ALPHA and Itanium and compilers 1 Message-ID: <PCdmd.2957$bX.1412@news.cpqcorp.net>    Phillip Helbig wrote: E > Back in the good old days, everything came from DEC---hardware, OS, J > compilers, peripherals.  It all worked very well together and was one ofJ > the many things that made DEC great.  If something didn't work, one knewC > to blame DEC---but everything always did work.  Now, with all the I > buy-outs and mergers and people changing jobs, the situation has become  > a bit more confusing.  > F > Fortunately, there is, I read here, a common code base for ALPHA andI > Itanium.  Presumably, this means that, at least as long as ALPHA is not I > in maintenance mode, there will be feature parity.  However, I'm in the J > dark about what the situation is with compilers.  If I recall correctly,F > most or all are still on the quarterly CD distribution.  Can someoneF > post a list of a) who actually builds/maintains each compiler and b)H > whether or not there is a common code base between ALPHA and Itanium. J > (I'm particularly interested in how many Fortran2003 features will make I > it into the ALPHA compiler and what the status of the Fortran compiler  I > on Itanium is (I don't have an Itanium machine at home yet), but would  > > like to get an overview of the situation for all compilers.) >   I The question you ask varies from compiler to compiler.  For the Alpha vs  G Itanium comparison, almost all of the compilers are essentially common  F between Alpha and Itanium (VAX is quite a different story but I won't E clutter the discussion with that).   Some differences due to calling  @ standards, etc. are needed.  Of course, they generate different " instructions.  The exceptions are:( - Ada on Itanium will be provided by ACTI - C++ on Itanium is provided by HP (we have real developers), but uses a  I newer set of technology than the Alpha compiler - some common with Alpha   but much not common ) - There is no Itanium PLI provided by HP.   G To answer your Fortran questions, I'm not the Fortran expert, but I'll  ? give it a shot.  The Alpha and Itanium Fortran90 compilers are  H essentially common code.  As Larry mentioned, the former Compaq Fortran F developers are now employees of Intel.  HP has hired/transferred/etc. F new people onto Fortran.  As for Fortran2003 features, I haven't been E involved with any futures discussions.  If you have specific feature  A requests, please email them to me and I'll forward them onto the   appropriate person(s).  F As for Itanium compilers in general, all of the HP provided compilers @ will be available when OpenVMS I64 ships (BASIC, C, C++, COBOL, I Fortran90, Macro-32, Pascal).  They have all been in available for field  I test for almost a year give or take (BASIC and Pascal didn't enter field   test until January 2004).    --   John Reagan / HP Pascal/{A|I}MACRO for OpenVMS Project Leader  Hewlett-Packard Company    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 22:18:49 -0500 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> A Subject: Re: common code base for ALPHA and Itanium and compilers , Message-ID: <AY-dnZRub8Ta7wTcRVn-rw@igs.net>   John Reagan wrote: > Phillip Helbig wrote: F >> Back in the good old days, everything came from DEC---hardware, OS,D >> compilers, peripherals.  It all worked very well together and wasC >> one of the many things that made DEC great.  If something didn't F >> work, one knew to blame DEC---but everything always did work.  Now,B >> with all the buy-outs and mergers and people changing jobs, the- >> situation has become a bit more confusing.  >>G >> Fortunately, there is, I read here, a common code base for ALPHA and F >> Itanium.  Presumably, this means that, at least as long as ALPHA isG >> not in maintenance mode, there will be feature parity.  However, I'm G >> in the dark about what the situation is with compilers.  If I recall E >> correctly, most or all are still on the quarterly CD distribution. C >> Can someone post a list of a) who actually builds/maintains each E >> compiler and b) whether or not there is a common code base between > >> ALPHA and Itanium. (I'm particularly interested in how manyE >> Fortran2003 features will make it into the ALPHA compiler and what D >> the status of the Fortran compiler on Itanium is (I don't have anE >> Itanium machine at home yet), but would like to get an overview of $ >> the situation for all compilers.) >> > G > The question you ask varies from compiler to compiler.  For the Alpha D > vs Itanium comparison, almost all of the compilers are essentiallyF > common between Alpha and Itanium (VAX is quite a different story butF > I won't clutter the discussion with that).   Some differences due to? > calling standards, etc. are needed.  Of course, they generate . > different instructions.  The exceptions are:* > - Ada on Itanium will be provided by ACTC > - C++ on Itanium is provided by HP (we have real developers), but F > uses a newer set of technology than the Alpha compiler - some common  > with Alpha but much not common+ > - There is no Itanium PLI provided by HP.  > H > To answer your Fortran questions, I'm not the Fortran expert, but I'll@ > give it a shot.  The Alpha and Itanium Fortran90 compilers areA > essentially common code.  As Larry mentioned, the former Compaq 8 > Fortran developers are now employees of Intel.  HP has1 > hired/transferred/etc. new people onto Fortran.   0 I'm not sure I understood this last bit clearly.K I know that the Fortran group at Compaq was bequeathed to Intel at the time  of the chip slaughter.F Are you now saying that HP has now gone out and hired its own group ofL Fortran developers, or is this a case of continued body donation to Intel at> HP's expense or that HP is paying for new Intel Fortran hires?   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Nov 2004 12:40:43 -0800$ From: leeroth@my-deja.com (Lee Roth)+ Subject: Re: Cross-platform Backup Solution = Message-ID: <d0e744c9.0411151240.782f4a08@posting.google.com>   ] "Yong Boon, Lim" <y0ngb00n@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<cn1ept$fgn$1@news4.jaring.my>... I > Does anyone of you know any cross-platform backup product which support  > Windows and OpenVMS?  R Legato Networker (data sheet): http://www.legato.com/resources/datasheets/D136.pdf  B VMS can be a backup client, Windoze or various Unix flavors can be the server platform.   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Nov 2004 18:38:01 -06004 From: kuhrt@nospammy.encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt) Subject: Dead disk that wasn't? 3 Message-ID: <TWyI9oYDVksA@eisner.encompasserve.org>   @ Had an interesting problem come up today, that I think I solved,? so I thought I'd post it here in case someone else has the same C problem.  Also, I'm curious as to why it went away (I have a theory ! but they're typically not right).   @ I had a 9G SBB disk that I had pulled out of an old StorageWorks@ array and had been sitting around for a while unused.  I decidedA to put it back into use to restore an older OS version to do some  development work.     9 This is what happened when I issued the backup command...   7 $ back DKA600:[000000]DKA0_091503.SAV/sav DKA500:/image B %BACKUP-F-GETCHN, error getting device characteristics for DKA500:, -SYSTEM-F-IVIDENT, invalid identifier format  : This wouldn't happen immediately, but usually within a few? minutes. Sometimes it was a different error, but the basic idea ; was that the disk seemed shot.  So I thought disk had fatal @ problems and was about to chuck it out, when I decided to try...   $ analy/med dka500: @ %BAD-I-NOBADINFO, no bad block information available for DKA500:  : OK, lets try an exercise it and see if that will "fix" it.   $ analy/med dka500:/exer  > A long while later (I don't know how long, I wandered off) it @ returned to the prompt.  I tried the backup command again and it worked fine.    A My guess would be that since it was a former StorageWork member,  C it might not have the usual bad block info and analy/media/exercise  fix it?    ------------------------------    Date: 15 Nov 2004 12:01:49 -0800* From: Anders.Wallin@om.com (Anders Wallin)- Subject: EXE files different after ZIP/UNZIP? = Message-ID: <79de16e3.0411151201.4d4be89b@posting.google.com>    Hello,  D I have zipped EXE files from one directory and then unzipped them inA another. For some files I get a difference consisting of a single / record when checking with the VMS DIFF command.   F I have checked those EXE's with analyze/image, and no errors reported.  D I have also checked those EXE's with checksum/image and get the same  checksums as the original EXEs.  / Can anyone explain why these differences occur? < Why doesn't ANAL/IMAGE or CHECKSUM think something is wrong?   Best regards
 Anders wallin    ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 14:25:24 -0600 (CST)  From: sms@antinode.org- Subject: EXE files different after ZIP/UNZIP? ) Message-ID: <04111514252420@antinode.org>   * From: Anders.Wallin@om.com (Anders Wallin)  F > I have zipped EXE files from one directory and then unzipped them inC > another. For some files I get a difference consisting of a single 1 > record when checking with the VMS DIFF command.   3    Zip version?  Zip command (-V?, other options?)?   !    UnZip version?  UnZip command?   G    What's the diff?  Where's the diff (last block?)?  BACKUP /COMPARE?  - DUMP /OUTPUT = a, DUMP /OUTPUT = b, DIFF a b.   H > I have checked those EXE's with analyze/image, and no errors reported. > F > I have also checked those EXE's with checksum/image and get the same" > checksums as the original EXEs.  1 > Can anyone explain why these differences occur?   )    Most likely, given enough information.   > > Why doesn't ANAL/IMAGE or CHECKSUM think something is wrong?  C    Perhaps nothing significant is wrong.  Currently popular Zip and E UnZip programs can corrupt data after a file's EOF marker, which most C programs won't read.  (However, I'd expect DIFFERENCES to be one of  those.)   H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode-org     Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 20:22:20 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>1 Subject: Re: EXE files different after ZIP/UNZIP? + Message-ID: <4199645C.1818AB98@comcast.net>    Anders Wallin wrote: >  > Hello, > F > I have zipped EXE files from one directory and then unzipped them inC > another. For some files I get a difference consisting of a single 1 > record when checking with the VMS DIFF command.   D Is the different record right at the end of the file (the last block	 written)?    I'd suspect so.   H > I have checked those EXE's with analyze/image, and no errors reported. > F > I have also checked those EXE's with checksum/image and get the same" > checksums as the original EXEs. > 1 > Can anyone explain why these differences occur? > > Why doesn't ANAL/IMAGE or CHECKSUM think something is wrong?  B As Steve S. mentioned, insufficient data presented to draw a validE conclusion and I am not inclined to undertake an experiment on my own 	 just now.    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 21:26:43 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>C Subject: Re: Extending DCL [was: Re: DCL suggestion for f$verify()] + Message-ID: <41997373.FEA5FC27@comcast.net>    John Vottero wrote:  > I > My wish is that HP enhances DCL by starting over, with a clean sheet of D > paper.  Provide backwards compatibility with the /CLI qualifier in
 > AUTHORIZE.    E Not to mention compatibility with the gazillions of lines of existing 	 DCL code!   4 > DCL was fantastic 25 years ago but, it's outdated.  G By what measure? (Please don't say perl, python or any of the UN*X-land * "shells" - I'll lose all respect for you!)   > You can go to: > : > http://msdn.microsoft.com/theshow/episode043/default.asp > N > and watch a video that demos MSH, the command line environment for Longhorn.- > Just watch part 5, "Enter the Programmer".    B Circa. the 00:50:00 minute mark. The whole thing is 1:55:00 or so.   > They even mention OpenVMS and  > DCL at least twice.   E What they seem to call "MO-NET" looks absolutely HORRIBLE compared to D DCL. Then again, if you compare actual DCL to the Command DefinitionC Language (.CLD), that would look incomprehensible, also. (actually, F after I've been "in the groove" for a day or two, most of my DCL looks& incomprehensible a day or so later!).   F Still, the result would be very UN*X-like, it seems. I haven't watchedG the whole thing yet. Dunno if they actually show how to use a "command" H built from "command-lets". So, dunno if if you're stuck re-inventing the? command line parsing wheel in every program, like in UN*X-land.   G Maybe we could let DCL be sensitive to the presence of a pipe cymbol in E a command line rather than using the PIPE verb. That'd help, as would ; looping constructs, conditional blocks (CASE, UNTIL, etc.).    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 16:13:35 -0600 / From: Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com> + Subject: Re: FAST BOOT OF SIMH VAX Emulator + Message-ID: <2vso05F2ml5eoU1@uni-berlin.de>    Stanley F. Quayle wrote:& > On 15 Nov 2004 at 3:20, Sheva wrote: > I >>I can jump out from the VMS to the SIMH with the CTRL-E key. Then I can % >>return back with the commant cont.   >  > E > This works for a brief time.  If the emulated VAX is a member of a  E > VMS cluster, the VAX will be removed from the cluster after just a   > few seconds.   >  > F >>The question is if it is possible to skip the long boot procedure of >>the VAX System.  >  > H > SIMH will have the same limitations of the operating system that it's E > running.  Having a "quick boot" of VMS has been on the "wish list"   > for a long time. > H > To modify VMS to support "quick boot" would be a substantial effort --E > and HP certainly isn't interested in supporting it.  After all, if  H > the boot takes 10 minutes, but your system runs for years afterwards, 5 > what's the point?  This isn't Windows, after all...  > E > But, given the source code of SIMH, you could probably capture the  + > memory state somehow, and give it a shot.    FWIW:   H I used the the VMS snapshot facility for device driver development on a 4 VAXstation 4000/60.  I think this was using VMS 6.1.  I By using the fast power up memory test, I went from turning on the power  " switch to logged in in 45 seconds.  H I don't believe that snapshow is still supported, but is the capability  still latent in VMS 7.x?  G ----------------------------------------------------------------------- $ Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.  B Voice: 817-237-3360            Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com    Fax: 817-237-3074   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 08:19:49 +0800 @ From: Tim Sneddon <first-initiallastname@bsddotinfomedia.com.au>+ Subject: Re: FAST BOOT OF SIMH VAX Emulator + Message-ID: <2vsvd5F2pgl4kU1@uni-berlin.de>    Stanley F. Quayle wrote:H > SIMH will have the same limitations of the operating system that it's E > running.  Having a "quick boot" of VMS has been on the "wish list"   > for a long time. > H > To modify VMS to support "quick boot" would be a substantial effort --E > and HP certainly isn't interested in supporting it.  After all, if  H > the boot takes 10 minutes, but your system runs for years afterwards, 5 > what's the point?  This isn't Windows, after all...   A As mentioned by other posters...VMS on VAX did have this feature. ? I went looking for this a while back and I'm pretty sure it was  removed in OpenVMS VAX V7.1.   > E > But, given the source code of SIMH, you could probably capture the  + > memory state somehow, and give it a shot.   B There is a way of doing this. IIRC you can use the SAVE <filename>B command to save the emulator state. Then use RESTORE <filename> toA bring it back. The only problem I had with this is that I use the - DZ telnet connection and doing this broke it.   
 Regards, Tim.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 20:06:07 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>+ Subject: Re: FAST BOOT OF SIMH VAX Emulator + Message-ID: <4199608F.66B6DAB7@comcast.net>    Jiri Kulhan wrote: >  > > J > > To modify VMS to support "quick boot" would be a substantial effort --F > > and HP certainly isn't interested in supporting it.  After all, ifI > > the boot takes 10 minutes, but your system runs for years afterwards, 7 > > what's the point?  This isn't Windows, after all...  > J > The point is that SIMH needs to be booted again after each Windows crash > :-))  > Likewise, Charon-VAX (unless you run Charon on OpenVMS-Alpha).  F ...which is why I'm still hoping for a version of Charon/SIMH/??? that* eliminates the need for an underlying o.s.   > > F > > But, given the source code of SIMH, you could probably capture the- > > memory state somehow, and give it a shot.  > H > Long time ago there was a feature called snapshot (OVMS 5.x, maybe 6.x  > ?). Is it still in the system?  F Dunno, but I remember it never really worked quite right and I believe1 it was "de-supported" many, many misty moons ago.    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 14:54:11 -0800 ( From: J. A. Mc. <jaSPAMc@gbr.online.com>M Subject: Re: FBI turned AMERICA into a NATION of PROGRAMMED SLAVES and ROBOTS 8 Message-ID: <nrcip05larbij0dn72nl09ajsuirjn9qbb@4ax.com>  J On 15 Nov 2004 09:28:42 -0800, martin@icanfixit.co.uk (Martin) found these unused words floating about:  G >I thought this forum was to help each other out with printer problems. F >I see Keith has a problem with something.  I think keith could be the >next washington sniper?!! >  >Only joking Keith!   I No, there are other "Keiths" that are joking ... This one's just not very  funny!   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 19:43:35 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>= Subject: Re: Looking for feedback on using EDM to back up VMS + Message-ID: <41995B46.3149C6E0@comcast.net>   
 Lee wrote: > ; > DR capability won't be an issue.  The nodes are set up so < > that if necessary, they'll be able to boot off a SAN disk.< > We're speaking of a 5-node cluster so the loss of one node > for a day won't be an issue.     What about loss of the cluster?    > I see the EDM backup as being B > used more for recovery of files which some analyst inadvertently, > deleted.  Or the rerun of a Payroll cycle.> > As bitter as the medicine may taste, we may have to take it.   Be *DAMNED* careful!!!  H Don't let the burro-crats shove anything down your throat that kills the2 system or renders it unreliable - or unrestorable.  D Unless your Ethernet bandwidth exceeds your SAN bandwidth (less thanF likely), you may be on the fast-track to a self-ordained disaster from" which there will be *NO* recovery!   Is your resume up to date?   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    ------------------------------    Date: 15 Nov 2004 21:02:17 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) = Subject: Re: Looking for feedback on using EDM to back up VMS 3 Message-ID: <pAsIRZKVK8xi@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ` In article <41995B46.3149C6E0@comcast.net>, David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes: > Lee wrote: >>  < >> DR capability won't be an issue.  The nodes are set up so= >> that if necessary, they'll be able to boot off a SAN disk. = >> We're speaking of a 5-node cluster so the loss of one node   >> for a day won't be an issue.  > ! > What about loss of the cluster?  >   6 	He is in two separate data centers with a quorum node 	in a third:   http://tinyurl.com/4gnrw   	No longer HSJ, but EMC:   http://tinyurl.com/6kxmm  D 	Hence the questions about EDM - Enterprise Data Mover (EMC backup).    >> I see the EDM backup as beingC >> used more for recovery of files which some analyst inadvertently - >> deleted.  Or the rerun of a Payroll cycle. ? >> As bitter as the medicine may taste, we may have to take it.  >  > Be *DAMNED* careful!!! > J > Don't let the burro-crats shove anything down your throat that kills the4 > system or renders it unreliable - or unrestorable. > F > Unless your Ethernet bandwidth exceeds your SAN bandwidth (less thanH > likely), you may be on the fast-track to a self-ordained disaster from$ > which there will be *NO* recovery! >   ( 	He is concerned about ad hoc restores.    > Is your resume up to date?  . 	Pleeezzzz....  it's called Disaster Tolerant.   				Rob    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 21:29:36 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>= Subject: Re: Looking for feedback on using EDM to back up VMS + Message-ID: <41997420.553A7238@comcast.net>    Rob Young wrote: > b > In article <41995B46.3149C6E0@comcast.net>, David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes: > > Lee wrote: > >>> > >> DR capability won't be an issue.  The nodes are set up so? > >> that if necessary, they'll be able to boot off a SAN disk. ? > >> We're speaking of a 5-node cluster so the loss of one node ! > >> for a day won't be an issue.  > > # > > What about loss of the cluster?  > >  > ? >         He is in two separate data centers with a quorum node  >         in a third:  >  > http://tinyurl.com/4gnrw > ! >         No longer HSJ, but EMC:  >  > http://tinyurl.com/6kxmm > M >         Hence the questions about EDM - Enterprise Data Mover (EMC backup).  > " > >> I see the EDM backup as beingE > >> used more for recovery of files which some analyst inadvertently / > >> deleted.  Or the rerun of a Payroll cycle. A > >> As bitter as the medicine may taste, we may have to take it.  > >  > > Be *DAMNED* careful!!! > > L > > Don't let the burro-crats shove anything down your throat that kills the6 > > system or renders it unreliable - or unrestorable. > > H > > Unless your Ethernet bandwidth exceeds your SAN bandwidth (less thanJ > > likely), you may be on the fast-track to a self-ordained disaster from& > > which there will be *NO* recovery! > >2 > 0 >         He is concerned about ad hoc restores. >  > > Is your resume up to date? > 7 >         Pleeezzzz....  it's called Disaster Tolerant.d  D Dunno, Rob. In VMS-land, EMC is a pretty tough disaster to tolerate!   -- n David J Dachtera dba DJE Systemsd http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/r  " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/e   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 05:02:35 GMT " From: Lee <lytmah@telusplanet.net>= Subject: Re: Looking for feedback on using EDM to back up VMSd, Message-ID: <LRfmd.178783$9b.58992@edtnps84>  < Rob is almost correct.  We'll eventually put the 4-node ES45> cluster on a GS1280 cluster.  The ES45 cluster is still on HSJ0 but will be migrating to foreign SAN eventually.9 I've set up 8 foreign SAN shadow disks on a second GS1280D. cluster for running a third-party application.< The plan is to drop our current DLT tape systems and use EDM> for backup.  Hence my quest for information on the EDM backup.  9 Our 3-site, 5-node cluster remains running as long as anye/ combination of two sites AND 3 nodes remain up.e   David,= I have not brushed up on my resume for many years, and I haveM no plans to.       David J Dachtera wrote:e > Rob Young wrote: > b >>In article <41995B46.3149C6E0@comcast.net>, David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes: >>
 >>>Lee wrote:  >>>o= >>>>DR capability won't be an issue.  The nodes are set up sos> >>>>that if necessary, they'll be able to boot off a SAN disk.> >>>>We're speaking of a 5-node cluster so the loss of one node  >>>>for a day won't be an issue. >>>h" >>>What about loss of the cluster? >>>f >>? >>        He is in two separate data centers with a quorum nodee >>        in a third:0 >> >>http://tinyurl.com/4gnrw >>! >>        No longer HSJ, but EMC:0 >> >>http://tinyurl.com/6kxmm >>M >>        Hence the questions about EDM - Enterprise Data Mover (EMC backup).b >> >>! >>>>I see the EDM backup as beinguD >>>>used more for recovery of files which some analyst inadvertently. >>>>deleted.  Or the rerun of a Payroll cycle.@ >>>>As bitter as the medicine may taste, we may have to take it. >>>  >>>Be *DAMNED* careful!!!  >>>sK >>>Don't let the burro-crats shove anything down your throat that kills thel5 >>>system or renders it unreliable - or unrestorable.p >>>eG >>>Unless your Ethernet bandwidth exceeds your SAN bandwidth (less thangI >>>likely), you may be on the fast-track to a self-ordained disaster from"% >>>which there will be *NO* recovery!o >>>  >>0 >>        He is concerned about ad hoc restores. >> >> >>>Is your resume up to date?p >>7 >>        Pleeezzzz....  it's called Disaster Tolerant.  >  > F > Dunno, Rob. In VMS-land, EMC is a pretty tough disaster to tolerate! >    -- o Lee    lytmah@telusplanet.net   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 22:12:56 +0000 (UTC)r6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)  Subject: Re: Oracle DST Setting.0 Message-ID: <newscache$3eq87i$jdc$1@news.sil.at>  r In article <snOkd.41628$Z14.16268@news.indigo.ie>, "Andoni" <no_spam_please@andoni-at-ireland-dot-com.com> writes:J >Does anybody use Oracle 9i for OpenVMS? Do you have to change the logical >name: > ' >  "SYS$TIMEZONE_DIFFERENTIAL" = "3600"e >i3 >twice a year, when the clocks go back or forwards?l >wM >We have found that Oracle does not seem to see the ordinary operating system K >time but rather is adding this value to real time (winter time) so we havei@ >to put it in place in Spring and set it to zero in Autumn/Fall. >t >Surely there is a better way?  F This logical (just like the local time) is changed by VMS according toD the appropriate timezone rules (SYS$TIMEZONE_RULE) at the right time= (if SYSGEN param AUTO_DLIGHT_SAV is set). Isn't this enough ?t   -- i Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERt% Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 22:31:49 +0000 (UTC)tP From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)  Subject: Re: Oracle DST Setting.$ Message-ID: <cnbaok$v9e$2@online.de>  E In article <newscache$3eq87i$jdc$1@news.sil.at>, peter@langstoeger.at/$ (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) writes:   H > This logical (just like the local time) is changed by VMS according toF > the appropriate timezone rules (SYS$TIMEZONE_RULE) at the right time? > (if SYSGEN param AUTO_DLIGHT_SAV is set). Isn't this enough ?o  H It doesn't exist on VAX (though it is in the SYSGEN/SYSMAN HELP on VAX, 7 which is a bit confusing---is this a bug or "feature"?)    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 12:23:47 -0800 ! From: Fred Bach <music@triumf.ca>e& Subject: Re: OT: Reality check on RFID( Message-ID: <41991053.7030008@triumf.ca>   JF Mezei wrote:o[ > RFID seems to be the buzzword-du-jour these days. Everything from Passport to vegetables.g >  [snip] > 5 > What is so great about RFID compared to bar codes ?p6    You have to be able to SEE the barcodes.  RFID tags:    can be used to count bottles on a shelf, and are useful    for security reasons.        Opinions are my own.  ..fwb.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 00:47:59 -0500n- From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network>-& Subject: Re: OT: Reality check on RFID1 Message-ID: <z86dndGTLMsNCQTcRVn-vg@adelphia.com>E   JF Mezei wrote:l[ > RFID seems to be the buzzword-du-jour these days. Everything from Passport to vegetables.  > F > And now, in today's news, they want to tag Viagra bottles to prevent > counterfeit drugs. > N > So, when the pharmacists gets his bulk bottle of viagra, how will he know ifK > the RFID chip in it is real or if it is fake if both spew out some random N > number ? Shirley counterfeiters will be able to produce goods with the right$ > labels and accompanying chip etc ?  H I do not have specific knowledge of the encoding methods used, so I can ; only guess based on other products that I have worked with.b  G A random number would probably cause some sort of alert to go off, and , would indicate a forgery.t  F Typically numbering systems used for critical data have special check A "digits" on them, and also have many combinations that have been   designated as illegal.  E If you do not know how to change the check digits and you modify the  + other codes, the resulting code is invalid.t  I The number is also unique, so if the same RFID shows up in more than one 3' place, one has to be fake or defective.o  H The algorithm to calculate the check digits may be kept secret, as will G the illegal codes.  Even if someone cracks the code for generating the eI check digits, they will have a hard time guessing what the illegal codes   are.  I The people that know how to program the check digits usually do not know u: what the illegal codes are, so they can not disclose them.  H The people programming the readers are usually not the ones programming B the writing equipment, and so can be given different instructions.  D In the case of a pharmacy, RFID would not prevent a pharmacist from G knowingly selling counterfeit drugs.  But the typical practice is that aH the drug company would not get paid until their drugs were scanned by a G pharmacy.  And if that scan did not take place at the right place with tF in the right time frame, they would problably get concerned about not I getting paid.  Someone would investigate.  If the drugs showed up at two  I different places, then if the company did not investigate, they could be e in big trouble.p  I And with RFID tags, they can track the shipment at what ever detail they eC put the RFID tags on, with or with out the knowledge of the people   handling the shipment.  J At the present time, it takes specialized equipment to create an RFID tag.  5 > What is so great about RFID compared to bar codes ?n  G RFID can be read with out having a clear optical path to the RFID tag. sB They can also more easily handle larger numbers/ more information.  H One of the uses of RFID is where the producer of the tagged device does D not get paid until the tagged device is delivered to the next buyer.  F Another of the uses of RFID in retail is slowing down shoplifting and H pilfering.  If the RFID tag shows up in a place where it should not be,  security is alerted.  = Most employees would not know where an RFID scanner could be."    B In ZOOs, RFIDs are used on animals, so that their identity can be H verified from a safe distance, or the location of animals that are very H good at hiding can be verified.  You can get one inserted in your pets, ? and if they are picked up by some pounds or found by the right v% organizations, you will get notified.w  E In a warehouse, an RFID scanner can help locate a specific shipment,  I even when it was stored in the wrong place, or mislabeled, or even has a e damaged label.  I Since it takes specialized equipment to generate an RFID tag, it is hard   to make a forgery.   -John  wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion OnlyR   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Nov 2004 19:47:01 -06004 From: kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow)( Subject: Re: Problem to Partition a disk3 Message-ID: <kYlFQ1Znr4p9@eisner.encompasserve.org>,  S In article <cn8qeh$mqg$1@news2.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>, Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> writes:mM >> The only time I can recall ever using a cluster size that big is on page /hO >> swap / dump disks, or devices that contain nothing but a few huge log files.i > N > In this case the disk should only contain four files (disk container files).  L Bfore you even start, an "empty" disk is going to have 3 files with non-zeroC size allocations: indexf.sys, bitmap.sys, and 000000.dir plus maybedJ badblk.sys, security.sys. And unless you put the page,swap, or log file inL the MFD, there's going to be one or more directory files besides 000000.dir.  1 	Bob Kaplow	NAR # 18L	TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"o& 		>>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<<K Kaplow Klips & Baffle:	http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdfeL     www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/    www.nira-rocketry.org    www.nar.org  H         We have awakened a sleeping giant and instilled in it a terrible3         resolve. -- Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto, WWII.n   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 20:58:17 +0100e From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> Subject: Re: raid hardware2 Message-ID: <cnb1oq$jao$1@news6.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>   Jim Strehlow wrote:l6 > What RAID hardware arrays are available for OpenVMS?8 > Only from H.P. or are there third party RAID products? > Q > Can you configure the RAID through an OpenVMS utility or did you need to set itaP > up via a laptop with some software that ran on Microsoft Windows or other o/s? > J > Is there a software program that runs and checks for errors on the RAID? > # > Our data needs are around 100 GB.  >  > Thanks in advance. > 7 > Jim Strehlow, OpenVMS Administrator, Alameda, CA, USAu  G 100GB fits on one disk, so what kind of raid array do you have in mind? P Do you want I/O speed (many disks), or just data security in case a disks dies ?  Q In general I would say buy a HP product. VMS can be quite fussy with storage. In nO fact there were (are?) small HP raid cabinets with different firmware versions s for VMS and Intel platforms.   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Nov 2004 13:20:25 -0800% From: sean@obanion.us (Sean O'Banion)f Subject: Re: raid hardware= Message-ID: <dffe4465.0411151320.6c270ae9@posting.google.com>t   Jim,  F That depends on what you want: local attached (PCI card), or contoller managed.  ? If you want a PCI card RAID I think there are just two choices:,? http://h18002.www1.hp.com/alphaserver/products/storage/sa5300a/a orO http://h18006.www1.hp.com/alphaserver/products/storage/retired/ra230/index.htmlr  C I've used a version of the RA230, and didn't care for the ARC-basedAC and floppy-based utitlity for configuration management.  The SA5300-F looks better because it's configuration runs under SRM and is onboard, but I've never used one.  D For external, there's both SCSI and SAN based modular array systems:3 http://h18004.www1.hp.com/storage/arraysystems.html : I used a few of these, but these realy need to have a good6 understanding of what you want to be able to evaluate.     Sean    q JimStrehlow@data911.com (Jim Strehlow) wrote in message news:<4b6ec350.0411150724.293c2423@posting.google.com>...i6 > What RAID hardware arrays are available for OpenVMS?8 > Only from H.P. or are there third party RAID products? > Q > Can you configure the RAID through an OpenVMS utility or did you need to set it>P > up via a laptop with some software that ran on Microsoft Windows or other o/s? > J > Is there a software program that runs and checks for errors on the RAID? > # > Our data needs are around 100 GB.y >  > Thanks in advance. > 7 > Jim Strehlow, OpenVMS Administrator, Alameda, CA, USAl   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 15:52:24 -0500 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>a" Subject: Re: Reality check on RFID, Message-ID: <-oGdnetCOPiUigTcRVn-pg@igs.net>   JF Mezei wrote: C > RFID seems to be the buzzword-du-jour these days. Everything fromF > Passport to vegetables.k >tF > And now, in today's news, they want to tag Viagra bottles to prevent > counterfeit drugs. >hF > So, when the pharmacists gets his bulk bottle of viagra, how will he	 > know iftD > the RFID chip in it is real or if it is fake if both spew out some > randomD > number ? Shirley counterfeiters will be able to produce goods with > the righti$ > labels and accompanying chip etc ? >p5 > What is so great about RFID compared to bar codes ?     I We have a (sadly non-VMS) project that is now 3+ years old which has usedtJ RFID since the beginning.   It permits our client to add significant valueE to their customers for not a lot of effort and in this case since the J application of RFID is rather unique, it is of true competitive advantage.G Unfortunately we are under non-disclosure so I cannot say any more thanp this.m   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 20:19:16 -0500e' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com>t" Subject: RE: Reality check on RFIDR Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB4A4743@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message------ > From: John Smith [mailto:a@nonymous.com]=20n" > Sent: November 15, 2004 12:52 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com $ > Subject: Re: Reality check on RFID >=20 > JF Mezei wrote: E > > RFID seems to be the buzzword-du-jour these days. Everything frome > > Passport to vegetables.  > >gH > > And now, in today's news, they want to tag Viagra bottles to prevent > > counterfeit drugs. > >dH > > So, when the pharmacists gets his bulk bottle of viagra, how will he > > know ifeF > > the RFID chip in it is real or if it is fake if both spew out some
 > > randomF > > number ? Shirley counterfeiters will be able to produce goods with
 > > the rightd& > > labels and accompanying chip etc ? > >m7 > > What is so great about RFID compared to bar codes ?a >=20 >=20? > We have a (sadly non-VMS) project that is now 3+ years old=20s > which has used= > RFID since the beginning.   It permits our client to add=20k > significant value:G > to their customers for not a lot of effort and in this case since thee8 > application of RFID is rather unique, it is of true=20 > competitive advantage.B > Unfortunately we are under non-disclosure so I cannot say any=20 > more thans > this.( >=20  H Fwiw, I happen to know of a major retailer that uses OpenVMS in its RFID< based Operations, but can not expand on much beyond that.=20  G Imagine someone wanting to have a virus free, very secure RFID solutione - what a concept eh?  G For those looking at some recent press stuff on RFID issues, check out:   H http://news.com.com/Theme+park+takes+visitors+to+RFID-land/2100-1006_3-5 366509.html?tag=3Dnefd.hed  H http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/aug2004/tc20040831_4930_t c172.htm  * http://news.com.com/2100-1012-5202240.html  = http://www.itbusiness.ca/index.asp?theaction=3D61&sid=3D56617a  K http://www.themanufacturer.com/content_detail.html?contents_id=3D4791&t=3D=E ma
 nufacturer  J http://news.com.com/Static+over+RFID/2100-1008_3-5357189.html?tag=3Dnefd.= lm ede    Regards'  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477t kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  $ "OpenVMS has always had integrity .. Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .."   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Nov 2004 15:23:29 -0500/ From: brooks@cuebid.zko.dec.nospam (Rob Brooks)s. Subject: Re: RMS Files and directories Indexes- Message-ID: <USsqb8ZIvRco@cuebid.zko.dec.com>l  4 "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com> writes:D >> 2. Why should you keep the .dir file (which contains my files) to >> below 128 Blocks? > D > Upgrade to V7.3-2, and your problems will vanish.  Prior versions F > only cached 128 blocks of the directory file, regardless of how big 	 > it was.-  @ The 127-block limit was removed before V7.3, perhaps as far back as V7.1e  B I suspect that other things, such as XFC, have also improved large directory file peformance.     -- n  M Rob Brooks    VMS Engineering -- I/O Exec Group     brooks!cuebid.zko.dec.comn   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Nov 2004 15:39:35 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) . Subject: Re: RMS Files and directories Indexes3 Message-ID: <B5yC2IlR4D7W@eisner.encompasserve.org>s  n In article <b096a4ee.0411151013.1a80baa0@posting.google.com>, spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes: > H > Wasn't this 128-block limit lifted for some version of VMS or at least > some Alpha version of VMS? >   E    I'm not sure I really understand this 128 block limit.  Back when  E    AUTOGEN was new I found ACP_DIRCACHE was 128 pages and ignored by UE    AUTOGEN even though I was getting tons of cache misses.  I raised iG    it myself after looking at the sizes of directories and performance a$    and cache hit rates both went up.  F    Was I seeing the results of caching multple directories or did this2    actually cause larger directories to be cached?  D    I would recommend increasing ACP_DIRCACHE to anyone who is seeingH    low hit rates in "monitor file_system_cache"'s corresponding columns.   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Nov 2004 19:53:04 -06004 From: kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow). Subject: Re: RMS Files and directories Indexes3 Message-ID: <HTieN5m4Xw4L@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  \ In article <41987607.2BD9F83E@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:4 >> 4. Why does renaming rebuild the directory index? > N > Directory files are sequential files. Any changes to it require not only theN > record be rewritten, but also all records after that one. (which is why whenN > you do a mass delete, it is faster to delete the directory from last file toB > the first file since a whole lot less rewriting will be needed).  I Which makes it interesting that a VMS DELETE *.*.* deletes files first to C last instead of last to first. I wonder if this will ever be fixed?M  1 	Bob Kaplow	NAR # 18L	TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"a& 		>>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<<K Kaplow Klips & Baffle:	http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdfeL     www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/    www.nira-rocketry.org    www.nar.org  H         We have awakened a sleeping giant and instilled in it a terrible3         resolve. -- Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto, WWII.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 20:01:47 -0600h2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>. Subject: Re: RMS Files and directories Indexes+ Message-ID: <41995F8B.5DAA709D@comcast.net>t  	 MB wrote:t > D > I am urgently seeking some information on how files are stored and > indexed by OpenVMS V7.2-1  > E > Have an application which has been generating files (62,000 approx)w  
 STOP THAT!!!!c  H > where the first 22 characters are always the same letters and numbers,  ! So they can be eliminated, right?   D > a year down the line it taking ages just doing a simple OS commandF > like $ dire'.  You can forget something like $ dire/before=today'.   Two main reasons:/  F  1. Directory caching is likely an issue (even the recent changes have their limits).H  2. To check for dates, the system must retrieve the (first) file headerE for each file. That's a *LOT* of thrashing! (Read the directory, reado- INDEXF, read the directory, read INDEXF, ...)   1 > 1. How many files should you keep in directory?   	 Depends. j  H How long is the file name? (Determines how many directory blocks will be/ needed to store pointers to all the versions.) 7  E How many versions of each? (Each new version eats up a few longwords, E until the current directory record is full (max 512, no span), then ad new one is started).  6 > 2. Why should you keep the .dir file (which contains   ...pointers to...a    > my files) to below 128 Blocks?  G Depends on the o.s. version, but again, its a caching issue. Also, .DIReF files are sequential, not indexed (ISAM). So, they have to be searchedH sequentially. Of course, that said, the .DIR is kept sorted in ascendingC order by filename.ext; so, some binary search is possible, though I , don't know if the system actually does that.  F > 3. Does having the first 22 characters the same cause any problem to
 > OpenVMS?  E Other than wasting CPU cycles and I/O bandwidth on meaningless info.,M no.   3 > 4. Why does renaming rebuild the directory index?N  G Well, first off, there is no directory "index". In a way, the directory  *IS* the "index".o  E RENAME is little more than the combination of removing an entry for a.G file and making a new one. That said, it's roughly equivalent to "half"yB a delete and "half" a create. You could emulate it like so in DCL:  & $ SET FILE/ENTER=new_filespec filespec $ SET FILE/REMOVE filespec  1 > 5. Should you rename the file to same directorym   Normal.l   >, a different directory  
 Also, normal.    >, or another disk?   E Not possible. You must COPY to another disk, then (optionally) delete 
 the original.L    > 6.How about FAQ on the matter?   Did you check the FAQ?   > What are HP recommendations?   See the on-line doc.'s.    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE SystemsE http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:w" http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/f  " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/i   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Nov 2004 20:02:29 -06004 From: kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow). Subject: Re: RMS Files and directories Indexes3 Message-ID: <8UC9Ea+mubre@eisner.encompasserve.org>u  \ In article <1d08b916.0411150038.6a8d15c3@posting.google.com>, mb301@hotmail.com (MB) writes:D > I am urgently seeking some information on how files are stored and > indexed by OpenVMS V7.2-1  > E > Have an application which has been generating files (62,000 approx)iH > where the first 22 characters are always the same letters and numbers,D > a year down the line it taking ages just doing a simple OS commandF > like $ dire'.  You can forget something like $ dire/before=today'. > 1 > 1. How many files should you keep in directory?m   One screenful!  C > 2. Why should you keep the .dir file (which contains my files) toS > below 128 Blocks?hF > 3. Does having the first 22 characters the same cause any problem to
 > OpenVMS?   Yes.  3 > 4. Why does renaming rebuild the directory index?s> > 5. Should you rename the file to same directory, a different > directory, or another disk?e  > 6.How about FAQ on the matter?  * "VMS File SYstem Internals" by Kirby McCoy ISBN 1-55558-056-4 Digital Press 1990  H As much as this book needs updating, we REALLY need updates to Ken BatesJ "VAX I/O Subsystem: Optimizing Performance" [set in the days of the HSC50]2 and Roy Davis "VAXCluster Principles" [pre Alpha].  1 	Bob Kaplow	NAR # 18L	TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"f& 		>>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<<K Kaplow Klips & Baffle:	http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdfuL     www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/    www.nira-rocketry.org    www.nar.org  H         We have awakened a sleeping giant and instilled in it a terrible3         resolve. -- Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto, WWII.r   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 21:30:26 -0600-2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>. Subject: Re: RMS Files and directories Indexes+ Message-ID: <41997452.B6505E70@comcast.net>X   Bob Kaplow wrote:D > ^ > In article <41987607.2BD9F83E@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:6 > >> 4. Why does renaming rebuild the directory index? > >uP > > Directory files are sequential files. Any changes to it require not only theP > > record be rewritten, but also all records after that one. (which is why whenP > > you do a mass delete, it is faster to delete the directory from last file toD > > the first file since a whole lot less rewriting will be needed). > K > Which makes it interesting that a VMS DELETE *.*.* deletes files first tohE > last instead of last to first. I wonder if this will ever be fixed?   : Propose a solution (how-to) at the next Engineering Panel.   -- u David J Dachtera dba DJE Systemsy http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/E  " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 21:33:21 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>. Subject: Re: RMS Files and directories Indexes+ Message-ID: <41997501.943ED01C@comcast.net>S   Bob Kaplow wrote:u > [snip], > "VMS File SYstem Internals" by Kirby McCoy > ISBN 1-55558-056-4 > Digital Press 1990 > J > As much as this book needs updating, we REALLY need updates to Ken BatesL > "VAX I/O Subsystem: Optimizing Performance" [set in the days of the HSC50]4 > and Roy Davis "VAXCluster Principles" [pre Alpha].   Note to Sue, Hoff, whoever...i  > How receptive are the publishers to new/updated book concepts?   -- i David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:." http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/u   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Nov 2004 13:34:29 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) + Subject: Re: Solaris 10 - no charge for o/se3 Message-ID: <G9omtv8KOlDy@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  q In article <7olBqm8vmN03@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: ] > In article <4198C365.5814C66@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:m >> Tom Linden wrote: >>> J >>> Scott got the Gillette business model backwards, he is giving away the7 >>> razor blades, and hopes someone will buy his razor.  >> -P >> Nop. razors are cheap. blades aren't. Same with diabetic testers. Testers areP >> free, but the test strips aren't free. Once hooked up to a tester, you get toF >> buy their proprietary supplies (test strips) for rest of your life. > F >   That's exactly Tom's point.  Gillette gave me a three-bladed razorH >   because they want me to buy thier blades.  Sun should be giving awayF >   (or at least reducing the price of) hardware in order to sell moreE >   Solaris.  The money is in the blades, not the razors, and in the ? >   software, not the hardware.o  ; But software is much easier to duplicate than razor blades.n   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Nov 2004 15:29:29 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)@+ Subject: Re: Solaris 10 - no charge for o/sc3 Message-ID: <aHvcZzDMInS4@eisner.encompasserve.org>.  \ In article <4198ECDB.F7F1A152@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:  L > I don't see it that way at all. The way I see it, Sun has realised that OSL > revenus will go to 0 because of Linux. Either through lack of sales, or byP > giving it away. But by giving it away, you then have support revenus which can > be quite profitable.  K    The richest (or 2nd this week?) man on the earth makes his money selling !    software and avoiding support.   D    I don't think Sun, or HP, or IBM, ... can turn that model around.   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Nov 2004 15:30:13 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) + Subject: Re: Solaris 10 - no charge for o/s 3 Message-ID: <$IwVeA$C2gGI@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  c In article <G9omtv8KOlDy@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:  > = > But software is much easier to duplicate than razor blades.i  &    Carefull, you can get cut that way.        8-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 18:44:25 -0500d( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>+ Subject: Re: Solaris 10 - no charge for o/sa, Message-ID: <41993F59.8060202@tsoft-inc.com>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:  G > Ack.  I hate to be agreeing with JF.  Linux has provided at least thefF > appearance of being "free".  In reality, while Linux can be obtainedJ > "free" - the typical Red Hat user purchases a subscription service whichJ > includes a copy of the OS along with support, updates, and new versions.I > The user can select the level of service based on how much they want toyC > spend.  Since Red Hat went to that model, they appear profitable.l    P This works much better when support, updates, new versions, and such are pretty O much mandatory due to the (poor) quality of the OS.  Wouldn't work too well on  M past versions of VMS.  Current versions on VMS on Alpha seem to require many tM more patches than in the past.  Not sure why; perception, new features, poor  L memory (mine), or whatever.  I'm hoping that the VMS people haven't taken a K lesson from Microsoft and insured that support would be a requirement.  :-)c    L > The net effect is to lower the cost of entry, and remove complex licensingI > schemes.  It doesn't so much shift the costs to maintenance (since mostoH > commercial users typically buy support contracts), as it increases theL > probability of a long-term revenue stream (by making service contracts the" > norm) for all systems they sell.    Q No question in my mind that much more revenue is made from periodic and unending HJ payments than from one time sales.  (Not sure curly ever understood this.)    M > I think Sun realized that without parity in cost structure with Linux, that-J > Solaris would rapidly decline.  I'm not convinced that the strategy willJ > turn Solaris/Sun around - because by itself it doesn't address the costsM > associated with continued development of it's own OS, and supporting unique C > (sparc) hardware.  Over time, Sun will have to continue to investjL > significant money into Solaris and Sparc to keep it competetive with LinuxJ > and x86-64.  Solaris isn't sufficiently unique that over time any of its? > current capabilities will not be directly available on Linux.l  P The real problem is the concept of 'free software'.  It isn't.  Someone has put Q something into it.  Labor.  Money.  Whatever.  Until this is understood everyone wM suffers.  Why are con men so successful?  Because of the greed in people who  N want something for free.  Just like the mouse as he reaches for the cheese in 	 the trap.    Dave   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Roady Vanderbilt, PA  15486i   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Nov 2004 16:09:44 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)+ Subject: Re: Solaris 10 - no charge for o/sa< Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0411151609.f93152c@posting.google.com>  W "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message news:<76adnTV1eMeTMAXcRVn-gg@igs.net>... N > http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=738&e=1&u=/ap/20041115/ap_o > n_hi_te/sun_solaris10r > + > Sun to Give Out Operating System for Freeu  3 desperate companies must do desperate things ... :)    ------------------------------    Date: 15 Nov 2004 20:05:03 -06004 From: kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow)+ Subject: Re: Solaris 10 - no charge for o/sy3 Message-ID: <1VIzReDX+QPY@eisner.encompasserve.org>H  q In article <7olBqm8vmN03@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:eF >   That's exactly Tom's point.  Gillette gave me a three-bladed razorH >   because they want me to buy thier blades.  Sun should be giving away  J I hope the Saturday Night Live folks are getting royalties on the GilletteH "triple track, because you'll buy anything" technology. I think this was= first season SNL, if not it was very close to the first year.e  1 	Bob Kaplow	NAR # 18L	TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"c& 		>>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<<K Kaplow Klips & Baffle:	http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf L     www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/    www.nira-rocketry.org    www.nar.org  H         We have awakened a sleeping giant and instilled in it a terrible3         resolve. -- Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto, WWII.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 20:17:10 -0600n2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>+ Subject: Re: Solaris 10 - no charge for o/sa+ Message-ID: <41996326.6E70976C@comcast.net>    Bob Koehler wrote: > T > In article <76adnTV1eMeTMAXcRVn-gg@igs.net>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:P > > http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=738&e=1&u=/ap/20041115/ap_o > > n_hi_te/sun_solaris10e > >r- > > Sun to Give Out Operating System for Free> > ) >    Sun is going to get what it's worth.o  A Perhaps, but the principle isn't really that goofy: give away thesD product, and sell the support (say, "Linux"). Support is an expense.4 Software licenses are a capital expenditure (asset).  F See, unlike certain folks we won't mention in this post (since we beatF them bloody all too often in other posts), Sun understands that nobody: gives a <censored> about TCO if the "sticker shock" of theA "cost-to-acquire" keeps the product locked out of customer sites.a  9 "What it's worth" rather depends on one's point of view:    E o Is it "worth it" to pick up a (relative) freebie and negotiate with ' the bean counters for support dollars? >  H o Is it "worth it" to beat the bean counters into submission for capitalF dollars and then extort support money out of them with the promise notG to beat them up for capital dollars again (until the next time you have)) to actually "buy" an upgrade, of course)?d   -- i David J Dachtera dba DJE Systemse http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:s" http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/t   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 22:21:41 -0500-# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>5+ Subject: Re: Solaris 10 - no charge for o/se, Message-ID: <AY-dnZdub8Ta7wTcRVn-rw@igs.net>   David J Dachtera wrote:n > Bob Koehler wrote: >>< >> In article <76adnTV1eMeTMAXcRVn-gg@igs.net>, "John Smith" >> <a@nonymous.com> writes:o >>>-L http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=738&e=1&u=/ap/20041115/ap_o >>> n_hi_te/sun_solaris10  >>>:- >>> Sun to Give Out Operating System for Free  >>* >>    Sun is going to get what it's worth. >rC > Perhaps, but the principle isn't really that goofy: give away theyF > product, and sell the support (say, "Linux"). Support is an expense.6 > Software licenses are a capital expenditure (asset). > H > See, unlike certain folks we won't mention in this post (since we beatH > them bloody all too often in other posts), Sun understands that nobody< > gives a <censored> about TCO if the "sticker shock" of theC > "cost-to-acquire" keeps the product locked out of customer sites.- > : > "What it's worth" rather depends on one's point of view: >sG > o Is it "worth it" to pick up a (relative) freebie and negotiate with ( > the bean counters for support dollars? >-B > o Is it "worth it" to beat the bean counters into submission forD > capital dollars and then extort support money out of them with theG > promise not to beat them up for capital dollars again (until the nextn9 > time you have to actually "buy" an upgrade, of course)?,    I The C-level execs all LOVE expenseable items but HATE captial cost items.(2 That's in part why they love leases vs. ownership.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 22:23:16 -0500e# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>i+ Subject: Re: Solaris 10 - no charge for o/si, Message-ID: <ALWdnYw8MsE47wTcRVn-ow@igs.net>   Bob Ceculski wrote:a0 > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message* > news:<76adnTV1eMeTMAXcRVn-gg@igs.net>... >>L http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=738&e=1&u=/ap/20041115/ap_o >> n_hi_te/sun_solaris10 >>, >> Sun to Give Out Operating System for Free >o5 > desperate companies must do desperate things ... :)s  D That's why carly(tm) is now pushing LCD TV's as the salvation of HP.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 21:35:22 -0600h2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>+ Subject: Re: Solaris 10 - no charge for o/st+ Message-ID: <4199757A.ABC81BA8@comcast.net>.   John Smith wrote:- >  > David J Dachtera wrote:o > > Bob Koehler wrote: > >>> > >> In article <76adnTV1eMeTMAXcRVn-gg@igs.net>, "John Smith" > >> <a@nonymous.com> writes:z > >>>LN > http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=738&e=1&u=/ap/20041115/ap_o > >>> n_hi_te/sun_solaris10i > >>> / > >>> Sun to Give Out Operating System for Free' > >>, > >>    Sun is going to get what it's worth. > >nE > > Perhaps, but the principle isn't really that goofy: give away thevH > > product, and sell the support (say, "Linux"). Support is an expense.8 > > Software licenses are a capital expenditure (asset). > >rJ > > See, unlike certain folks we won't mention in this post (since we beatJ > > them bloody all too often in other posts), Sun understands that nobody> > > gives a <censored> about TCO if the "sticker shock" of theE > > "cost-to-acquire" keeps the product locked out of customer sites.  > >a< > > "What it's worth" rather depends on one's point of view: > >dI > > o Is it "worth it" to pick up a (relative) freebie and negotiate withy* > > the bean counters for support dollars? > >eD > > o Is it "worth it" to beat the bean counters into submission forF > > capital dollars and then extort support money out of them with theI > > promise not to beat them up for capital dollars again (until the nexts; > > time you have to actually "buy" an upgrade, of course)?c > K > The C-level execs all LOVE expenseable items but HATE captial cost items.c4 > That's in part why they love leases vs. ownership.  & In NPO's, however, that tends to flip.   -- d David J Dachtera dba DJE Systemsh http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:l" http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/m  " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 21:37:30 -0600n2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>+ Subject: Re: Solaris 10 - no charge for o/st+ Message-ID: <419975FA.7D1190F3@comcast.net>    John Smith wrote:h >  > Bob Ceculski wrote:a2 > > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message, > > news:<76adnTV1eMeTMAXcRVn-gg@igs.net>... > >>N > http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=738&e=1&u=/ap/20041115/ap_o > >> n_hi_te/sun_solaris10 > >>. > >> Sun to Give Out Operating System for Free > >n7 > > desperate companies must do desperate things ... :)r > F > That's why carly(tm) is now pushing LCD TV's as the salvation of HP.   *Heavy Sigh*  F Once again, I see Capt. Gregg holding his face in his hands muttering,E "Oh, blast!", or perhaps bellowing at the top of his lungs, "Blasted,o woman, ...!!!!"n   -- d David J Dachtera dba DJE Systemst http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:/" http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/l  " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/e   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 11:27:52 +0800I From: prep@prep.synonet.comr+ Subject: Re: Solaris 10 - no charge for o/s - Message-ID: <87k6smbhhj.fsf@prep.synonet.com>n  6 "Fred Kleinsorge" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com> writes:  B > The net effect is to lower the cost of entry, and remove complex; > licensing schemes.  It doesn't so much shift the costs toi@ > maintenance (since most commercial users typically buy supportD > contracts), as it increases the probability of a long-term revenueD > stream (by making service contracts the norm) for all systems they > sell.i  A And it means you do not need to jump through hoops for a `CapitaloB Expenditure' and the on going maintance expence is just signed off< automajikly... In many govt depts and Co.! That is pricless.   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.m@                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 04:45:58 GMTn  From: CJT <abujlehc@prodigy.net>+ Subject: Re: Solaris 10 - no charge for o/sl& Message-ID: <41998607.601@prodigy.net>   John Smith wrote:o > Bob Ceculski wrote:r > 0 >>"John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message* >>news:<76adnTV1eMeTMAXcRVn-gg@igs.net>... >>N > http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=738&e=1&u=/ap/20041115/ap_o >  >>>n_hi_te/sun_solaris10 >>>p, >>>Sun to Give Out Operating System for Free >>5 >>desperate companies must do desperate things ... :)p >  > F > That's why carly(tm) is now pushing LCD TV's as the salvation of HP. >  > 0 Where does the ink cartridge go in one of those?   -- hD The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt toC minimize spam.  Our true address is of the form che...@prodigy.net.n   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 00:25:39 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>e+ Subject: Re: Solaris 10 - no charge for o/sk, Message-ID: <41998EFF.7CFC47A5@teksavvy.com>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > ' > Ack.  I hate to be agreeing with JF. w  K I waited until the day ended before replying. Wanted to make sure the world.K still existed after this unheard event with metaphysical repercussions. WasrK affraid Fred agreeing with me might cause some dimensional collision with am4 reverse universe causing both to nullify themselves.   Not even a major earthquake.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 05:05:00 GMTe. From: "Barry Streets" <berrys2552@comcast.net> Subject: SSH For the VAX/ Message-ID: <XTfmd.616201$8_6.276288@attbi_s04>n  I Is there any solutions to implement SSH-2 on a VAX?? With the HIPPA rulese8 upon us we are exploring any and all possible solutions.  
 Barry StreetsI The Echo Group   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 13:01:21 -0700e5 From: Todd Merritt <tmerritt@NeOmSaPiAlM.arizona.edu>o Subject: ssh set passwordtD Message-ID: <pan.2004.11.15.20.01.21.273058@NeOmSaPiAlM.arizona.edu>  I I'm not vms guru, so hopefully somebody here can help me out.  I'm tryingeI to write a perl script to change my password on a vms box.  The script istJ run from a unix box and connects to the vms box via ssh and I was planning@ on scripting the "set password" exchange, but I connect and see  $set verify8	 $set noon.  D and where I would expect to see the set password I'm sending and theI ensuing dialog I get nothing.  Is there something I should be looking forsJ here ?  Is there something special about "set"  that is preventing it fromI running ?  I tried replacing it with just dir and that works as expected.o   Thanks for any helpS   Todd   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 20:24:23 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> Subject: Re: ssh set passwordm+ Message-ID: <419964D7.86A1196C@comcast.net>e   Todd Merritt wrote:s > K > I'm not vms guru, so hopefully somebody here can help me out.  I'm trying1K > to write a perl script to change my password on a vms box.  The script isiL > run from a unix box and connects to the vms box via ssh and I was planningA > on scripting the "set password" exchange, but I connect and seeo
 > $set verify  > $set noona > F > and where I would expect to see the set password I'm sending and theK > ensuing dialog I get nothing.  Is there something I should be looking for L > here ?  Is there something special about "set"  that is preventing it fromK > running ?  I tried replacing it with just dir and that works as expected.i  H Without clearer information about what you're up to, I'd have to suggestC implementing an authentication scheme that allows this, rather thanj trying to hack it up this way.   -- - David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems> http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:a" http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/i   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 04:00:02 +0100 (CET)r% From: Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> 1 Subject: Re: this newsgroup heavily trolled by JFb8 Message-ID: <b2cbaabfa66fb5294289c9101525431e@dizum.com>   JF Mezei wrote:    >Jeff Hacker wrote:a >> RM >> What do we have to do to create a MODERATED newsgroup?  This newsgroup has ? >> gotten totally out of hand with all of the election garbage!i >o7 >You need to get in touch with the former moderators ofrM >misc.transport.air-industry and get them to add you as a moderator, and then 8 >remove themselves and you get to choose new moderators. >eN >I had asked these questions a while ago on this newsgroup and was laughed at.& >So understanbly, I did not pursue it.  * You are sooooo good at playing victim, JF.  N When they cannonize you you'll be called Saint JF Mezei of the Golden Prepuce.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 02:23:46 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing)6 Subject: What is status %X0760822A from ROBOT utility?6 Message-ID: <00A3AEC8.B5C08205@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  	 VMSers --e     OpenVMS V7.3-2, DS20E.  L Just inherited an MSL5026 (without documentation); have it plugged into the ' LVD SCSI port on the back of the DS20E.   M I have Media Robot Utility version 1.6 and am trying to get it to talk to thet library in the MSL5026.r   Didw  ; $ MCR SYSMAN IO CONNECT GKC0:/DRIVER=SYS$GKDRIVER/NOADAPTERi  M (which is what I do on my AlphaServer 800 to talk to the robot in an MT-891).l   I end up with a device:i   $ show dev gkc0/full  D Device GKC0:, device type Generic SCSI device, is online, shareable.  O     Error count                    0    Operations completed                 36 O     Owner process                 ""    Owner UIC                      [SYSTEM]oO     Owner process ID        00000000    Dev Prot    S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G:RWPL,W:RWPL O     Reference count                0    Default buffer size                   0     * MRU doesn't seem to be able to talk to it.   $ robot show robot gkc0l> ROBOT gkc0 is not responding: Operating system specific error.2 %ROBOT-E-OS_ERROR, Operating system specific error $write sys$output $statusp
 %X0760822A    $help /message /status='$status'> %MSGHLP-F-NOTFOUND, message not found in Help Message database  L (which I suppose isn't a surprise; it's not passing along the OS error, it's reporting that it had one.)o  = So how can I find out what the OS error is and how to fix it?d  K In general, any advice on getting an MSL5026 started up for the first time,oH given that it's powered on?  I think I got the SCSI stuff write; there'sM explicit termination, and a little green light on the terminator.  Should theD- drives be showing up on an IO AUTOCONFIGURE ?t   Thanks,l   -- Aland   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.636 ************************