1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 17 Nov 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 638       Contents:P 46755 Mining the Web: Jacobian Matrix Constructs with eigenVector Searching 4675 Re: DCPS and HP 4000N  Re: Dead disk that wasn't?: Re: Extending DCL [was: Re: DCL suggestion for f$verify()]" Re: FAST BOOT OF SIMH VAX Emulator HP earnings results  Re: HP earnings results  Re: HP earnings results P Re: interesting take on Olsen's "no reason for any individual to have a computerP Re: interesting take on Olsen's "no reason for any individual to have a computerP Re: interesting take on Olsen's "no reason for any individual to have a computerP Re: interesting take on Olsen's "no reason for any individual to have a computerP Re: interesting take on Olsen's "no reason for any individual to have a computer4 Re: Looking for feedback on using EDM to back up VMS Newsgroup moderation on VMS ( Online forums for former digits/deccies?, Re: Online forums for former digits/deccies?, Re: Online forums for former digits/deccies?% Re: RMS Files and directories Indexes % Re: RMS Files and directories Indexes % Re: RMS Files and directories Indexes % Re: RMS Files and directories Indexes % Re: RMS Files and directories Indexes % Re: RMS Files and directories Indexes % Re: RMS Files and directories Indexes % Re: RMS Files and directories Indexes % Re: RMS Files and directories Indexes " Re: Solaris 10 - no charge for o/s" Re: Solaris 10 - no charge for o/s" Re: Solaris 10 - no charge for o/s" Re: Solaris 10 - no charge for o/s" Re: Solaris 10 - no charge for o/s" Re: Solaris 10 - no charge for o/s" Re: Solaris 10 - no charge for o/s" Re: Solaris 10 - no charge for o/s" Re: Solaris 10 - no charge for o/s" Re: Solaris 10 - no charge for o/s t1lib, %SYSTEM-F-HPARITH Re: t1lib, %SYSTEM-F-HPARITH8 Re: this newsgroup heavily trolled by gay Darrell Larose Re: Upgrading HSG80 Firmware. 1 Re: What is status %X0760822A from ROBOT utility?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 17:01:50 -0500 ) From: "Web Science" <kevansb2b@yahoo.com> Y Subject: 46755 Mining the Web: Jacobian Matrix Constructs with eigenVector Searching 4675 < Message-ID: <419a895b$0$31279$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>  . Site and Features:  http://www.eigensearch.com  \Search engine, eigenMethod, eigenvector, mathematical, manifolds, science, technical, search tools, eigenmath, Jacobian, quantum, mechanics, manifolds, science, physics, chemistry, law, legal, government, home, office, business, domain lookup, medical, travel, food, university students, searching, searchers, surfing, advanced search, search tools   Chemistry, mathematics, physical sciences, engineering, aerospace, astronomy, photography, news, computers, software, investment, venture capital, stakeholder, Biology, Chemistry, Geosciences, Biotechnology, Medical, Nursing, Anthropology, psychology, psychiatry, Philosophy, History, Business, bachelor, Ph.D., Masters, administrative, MBA, eigenMethod, eigenvector, mathematical, manifolds, science, technical, search tools, eigenmath, Jacobian, quantum, mechanics, manifolds, physics, chemistry, law, legal, health, government, home, office, business, domain, lookup, medical, travel, food, university, students, search, searches, search engine, directory, directories, category, categories, help,  searching, searchers, surfing, advanced search, search help, search tips    j Beta Users and advanced features Sign-up here...  http://www.eigensearch.com/inc/constructs/betasignup.htm   Central to eigenSearch Advanced is the freedom to construct complex search explorations, save the forms for later use; and apply weight factor to each phrase and term. EigenSearch processing will apply eigenvector math and Jacobian matrices to construct search terms that are tailored to your exploration. Cross-pollination is also applied as described below. The eigenvector approach is clearly highly advanced and would normally be useful for very sophisticated applications. Nevertheless, anyone may utilize t he method. An advanced form is simply a matrix in which the user types words and phrases randomly in a multi-cell form (please click thumbnail to view).   Advanced features   < EigenOperator (cross pollination) and eigenvector constructs Cross document content pollination within every web site directory tree (unlike conventional search engines and tools eigenSearch checks for your terms and phrases and drills down though multiple directory documents) EigenSearch cross-pollination is applied to documents within the same (tree) level in a URL (peer documents). Thereby limiting the amount of contamination of results 
 Illustration:  "Blood Hounds" + "English Breed" will present documents that contain either of these phrases within the same peer level in a document storage structure; for example, within the directory: www.smartdogs/hounds. eigenSearch limits pollinating occurrences outside a peer level. For example; "blood hounds" + "English breed" found in two different directories would not report an eigenSearch result: i.e. "Blood hounds" found in www.smartdogs/hounds and "English Breed" found in. www.smartdogs/hounds/Europe would not be found. EigenSearch therefore searches one tree (peer) level in a site and looks for multiple occurrences of multiple phrases across all documents within this peer level.y Corporate products can be tailored to drill down infinite levels for eigenOperator (cross-pollinating operator) matching.  eigenSearch single phrase results will find all documents and show the results as independent findings. This way the user can find results across many documents and the combined highly constrained results are reserved for a single level cross pollination. r Extremely high (cross-pollinating) eigenValues will correspond to finely granular and refined search explorations.  * Beta users receive the following features: Login and passwordJ Save search constructs for later use in your own personal construct tablesg EigenOperator (cross Pollinating Operator) advanced features as described above (eigenvector to follow) 4 Database (Table) upload and eigenvector computations~EigenSearch seeks 300,000 beta testers for its advanced eigenOperator based cognitive engine. This engine will allow for a multiplicity of search parameters for users to select so as to mathematically narrow results. The system will employ eigenVectors, eigenValues and eigenMatrices to determine relevance to user searches; thereby rendering high fidelity confirmed search results.]Naturally the computational power for doing such math is why beta testers are required. Each tester is welcome to comment on user friendliness, speed, change and ergonomic elegance. It is an eigenSearch goal to continue advancing the user interface so as to remain intuitively simple to use while at the same time providing hi-fidelity explorations. wAll beta testers will receive a login and password, which provides entry into features for saving search constructs and parameters according to their own classification approach. Saved results and parameters can be used at any time and modified to alter search results. Beta users will be able to import their own data sets (2-dimentional) and perform an eigenValue analysis.                <r<p_    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 21:19:35 GMT * From: Paul Anderson <paul.anderson@hp.com> Subject: Re: DCPS and HP 4000N5 Message-ID: <161120041619344686%paul.anderson@hp.com>   8 In article <2vuut2F2qkrp7U1@uni-berlin.de>, Peter Weaver. <WeaverConsultingServices@sympatico.ca> wrote:  G > I see in the docs that the HP 4000N needs firmware 19980714 MB3.68 to F > work with DCPS. The firmware is supposed to come on a SIM instead ofE > being downloadable. Does anyone know who I should try contacting at  > HP to get this firmware?  F Try calling HP Parts Direct at 800-227-8164.  When we last called thatG number a couple of years ago, we pressed 3 for a parts order and then 1  for personal/small business.  E The latest (last) firmware for the LaserJet 4000 is "20011109 MB3.79" G released on November 20, 2001.  I'm afraid I don't know the part number  for it.   E When we last ordered firmware (for a LaserJet 8000) the cost was $40.    Paul   --    Paul Anderson   OpenVMS Engineering    Hewlett-Packard Company    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 20:06:59 -0500 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com># Subject: Re: Dead disk that wasn't? , Message-ID: <419AA433.6040803@tsoft-inc.com>   Marty Kuhrt wrote:  B > Had an interesting problem come up today, that I think I solved,A > so I thought I'd post it here in case someone else has the same E > problem.  Also, I'm curious as to why it went away (I have a theory # > but they're typically not right).  > B > I had a 9G SBB disk that I had pulled out of an old StorageWorksB > array and had been sitting around for a while unused.  I decidedC > to put it back into use to restore an older OS version to do some  > development work.    > ; > This is what happened when I issued the backup command...  > 9 > $ back DKA600:[000000]DKA0_091503.SAV/sav DKA500:/image D > %BACKUP-F-GETCHN, error getting device characteristics for DKA500:. > -SYSTEM-F-IVIDENT, invalid identifier format > < > This wouldn't happen immediately, but usually within a fewA > minutes. Sometimes it was a different error, but the basic idea = > was that the disk seemed shot.  So I thought disk had fatal B > problems and was about to chuck it out, when I decided to try... >  > $ analy/med dka500: B > %BAD-I-NOBADINFO, no bad block information available for DKA500: > < > OK, lets try an exercise it and see if that will "fix" it. >  > $ analy/med dka500:/exer > @ > A long while later (I don't know how long, I wandered off) it B > returned to the prompt.  I tried the backup command again and it > worked fine.   > C > My guess would be that since it was a former StorageWork member,  E > it might not have the usual bad block info and analy/media/exercise 	 > fix it?  >   Q I've got another theory.  I don't know what the internals of the disks are like,  O but I've got to feel that there is some sealed lubrication somewhere.  I don't  B think the disks are yet set up to run with magnetic bearings.  :-)  P So, you take an old disk that had been used for some significant time, then let Q it set for some significnat time.  Perhaps the lubrication has thickened and the  Q disk isn't spinning easily enough.  Run it for a while, and the heat loosens the  L lubricant, and then it works fine.  Perhaps it's a bit like power supplies,  don't turn them off.   Dave   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 19:09:21 -0500 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>C Subject: Re: Extending DCL [was: Re: DCL suggestion for f$verify()] , Message-ID: <419A96B1.2010804@tsoft-inc.com>   John Vottero wrote:   9 > "Anthony Borla" <ajborla@bigpond.com> wrote in message  8 > news:NFJld.36254$K7.7440@news-server.bigpond.net.au... >  > [Many good ideas snipped]  >  > H >>Obviously this is just a wish-list, one presented entirely from a userH >>perspective. However, it is one that seeks to see DCL made into a moreL >>useful tool, one perhaps better reflecting the needs of today. A deficientL >>command language will only see users resort more to alternatives like Perl= >>and Python, even perhaps, to alternative operating systems.  >> >> > J > My wish is that HP enhances DCL by starting over, with a clean sheet of E > paper.  Provide backwards compatibility with the /CLI qualifier in  @ > AUTHORIZE.  DCL was fantastic 25 years ago but, it's outdated. >  > You can go to: > : > http://msdn.microsoft.com/theshow/episode043/default.asp > O > and watch a video that demos MSH, the command line environment for Longhorn.  L > Just watch part 5, "Enter the Programmer".  They even mention OpenVMS and  > DCL at least twice.     0 I didn't look at the reference.  Dial-up access.  P I'm not one to ever say that things can't be improved.  However, for what I use Q DCL for, there aren't many deficiencies.  I'd be interested is seeing what could  R be better.  Then again, I didn't really understand the GUI when it first appeared.  O As for deficiencies, the command line interface on windows.  Pitiful.  If I go  O on, it would be about no stand-alone backup, no batch, etc.  Right now, DCL is  F part of those things that I've come to realize make using VMS so nice.   Dave   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 19:35:32 -0500 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>+ Subject: Re: FAST BOOT OF SIMH VAX Emulator * Message-ID: <419A9CD4.30509@tsoft-inc.com>   Vadim Model wrote:  r > shevchenko@ikp.tu-darmstadt.de (Sheva) wrote in message news:<adeef81b.0411150320.8b1cf2b@posting.google.com>... > ? >>Is there a way to freeze this state, and reactivate it later?  >> > = > In principle, yes, the emulator could do this for you (when G > implemented). But do you really need that frozen state? Next time you F > wake-up your system it will start from the same state. Including theD > system time, so that you need to correct it manually. And where isH > guarantee that certain application could stand such a temporal "jump"? > B > Actually I doubt that such tricks could be correctly implementedH > without appropriate support from VMS. And after all, booting takes VMSE > much less then a minute. Provided that you have fast enough CPU, of ? > course. As far as shutdown is concerned you can just kill the B > emulator. I have never experienced any problems with such a fast
 > "shutdown".  > 
 > Regards, > Vadim  >   @ If you're not really doing any work, then sure, you can do that.  J If you have applications running, with complex transactions being posted, Q updating multiple files, and you kill it in the middle of a transaction then you   have bad data.  N I'm guessing most people are running SIMH just to see VMS running on a windoz ' box, and aren't doing anything serious.    Dave   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 17:55:30 -0500 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>  Subject: HP earnings results, Message-ID: <IumdnfqtKvv4GAfcRVn-rw@igs.net>   Technology Solutions Group  J The Technology Solutions Group consists of Enterprise Storage and Servers,L Software and HP Services. The group reported revenue of $8.0 billion, up 10%I from the prior-year period. Operating profit for the quarter totaled $469 / million, or 5.8% of revenue. Within this group:    Enterprise Storage and Servers  F Enterprise Storage and Servers reported revenue of $4.1 billion, up 7%H year-over-year, and 22% sequentially. Industry-standard server shipmentsH increased 18% year-over-year, with revenue up 16% year-over-year and 23%I sequentially. Revenue in Business Critical Systems grew 3% year-over-year ? and 26% sequentially. Within BCS, revenue in HP-UX increased 8% F year-over-year, Alpha declined 27%, and NonStop revenue increased 13%.@ Networked storage revenue was down 9% year-over-year, but up 16%K sequentially, as the company continued to add storage sales specialists and G transition product offerings. Enterprise Storage and Servers reported a I quarterly operating profit of $107 million, or 2.6% of revenue, up from a * loss of $208 million in the third quarter.   HP Services   E HP Services revenue grew 13% year-over-year to a record $3.7 billion, A reflecting continued strength in Managed Services, which grew 35% G year-over-year. Customer Support grew 10% year-over-year and revenue in K Consulting and Integration increased 4%. Operating profit was $367 million,  representing 10.0% of revenue.      K No surprise about Alpha - kell the chip and don't have anything immediately I available to replace it and what do you expect. The big question is: what H portion of the decline was felt by VMS vs. Tru64, the latter being trulyJ dead and the former on life support until some axe murderer within HP saysG simplistically "Alpha sales were down 27% - guess it's time to kill VMS  too".    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 18:01:31 -0500 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>   Subject: Re: HP earnings results, Message-ID: <MaudnWMR_ZNQGwfcRVn-uw@igs.net>   Also look at this:  L http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/investor/financials/quarters/2004/seg_operatingprof it.pdf    K HP would be better of liquidating all its operations and just investing the F money in the stock/bond/currency market, turning itself into an income9 trust. As a shareholder, that would be my recommendation.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 19:39:12 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>   Subject: Re: HP earnings results, Message-ID: <419A9DAA.C428E965@teksavvy.com>   John Smith wrote: A > and 26% sequentially. Within BCS, revenue in HP-UX increased 8% H > year-over-year, Alpha declined 27%, and NonStop revenue increased 13%.  H To all those apologists who state that HP never reveals product specificL revenus, the above should be a rude awakening to reality. Another example of VMS being excluded.   M On the positive side, if VMS sales were truly down, then it is perhaps better M to just focus on Alpha generally and conveniently omit VMS' negative numbers.   M Interesting that they would mention "Alpha" and the 8086 (industry standard),  but not Pa-Risc nor IA64.    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Nov 2004 15:30:57 -06004 From: kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow)Y Subject: Re: interesting take on Olsen's "no reason for any individual to have a computer 3 Message-ID: <vzTz2GAzBl4F@eisner.encompasserve.org>   , Speaking of KO, what is he up to these days?  1 	Bob Kaplow	NAR # 18L	TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" & 		>>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<<K Kaplow Klips & Baffle:	http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf L     www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/    www.nira-rocketry.org    www.nar.org  I         You need only reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a C         reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about I         repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the 7         struggle for independence. -- Charles A. Beard     ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 16:39:20 -0500 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> Y Subject: Re: interesting take on Olsen's "no reason for any individual to have a computer , Message-ID: <GbGdnYU0WNoW7gfcRVn-rw@igs.net>  / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: + > http://www.snopes.com/quotes/kenolsen.asp  > E > The above is interesting because a) I always thought of this in the C > same context as Thomas J. Watson's [Chairman of the Board at IBM]  > famous	 > remark:  > = >    I think there's a world market for about five computers.  > D > and b) it comes from a source which in my opinion has made few, ifG > any, mistakes in determining the truth or falsehood of urban legends.  > H > I think the quote below, however, WAS intended the way it sounds.  :-) > L > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- D > The PC has bred anarchy.  Hardware, software, and peripherals haveB > been thrown together in random configurations at the whim of anyD > employee with access to an expense voucher and computer catalogue.C > The result has been a financial and administrative night mare for  > corporations.     I Maybe he'd already had dealings with Bill Gates when he made that remark?  ;-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 20:10:14 -0500 ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> Y Subject: Re: interesting take on Olsen's "no reason for any individual to have a computer 9 Message-ID: <%xxmd.18064$rc.962501@news20.bellglobal.com>   M "Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply" <helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de>  / wrote in message news:cncvno$hhp$1@online.de... + > http://www.snopes.com/quotes/kenolsen.asp  > J > The above is interesting because a) I always thought of this in the sameE > context as Thomas J. Watson's [Chairman of the Board at IBM] famous 	 > remark:  > < >   I think there's a world market for about five computers. > I > and b) it comes from a source which in my opinion has made few, if any, B > mistakes in determining the truth or falsehood of urban legends. > H > I think the quote below, however, WAS intended the way it sounds.  :-) > Q > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J > The PC has bred anarchy.  Hardware, software, and peripherals have been  > thrownL > together in random configurations at the whim of any employee with access  > to an J > expense voucher and computer catalogue. The result has been a financial  > and - > administrative night mare for corporations.  > K >                                                                   ---Ken   > Olsen 6 The bottom of the Ken Olsen page contains a book link:Y http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN%3D1576752259/urbanlegendsrefeA/103-9838927-7513441 , which is titled "DEC is dead, long live DEC"  
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.8 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 20:20:00 -0500 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>Y Subject: Re: interesting take on Olsen's "no reason for any individual to have a computer , Message-ID: <419AA740.8010504@tsoft-inc.com>   John Smith wrote:   1 > Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:  > + >>http://www.snopes.com/quotes/kenolsen.asp  >>E >>The above is interesting because a) I always thought of this in the C >>same context as Thomas J. Watson's [Chairman of the Board at IBM]  >>famous	 >>remark:  >>= >>   I think there's a world market for about five computers.  >>D >>and b) it comes from a source which in my opinion has made few, ifG >>any, mistakes in determining the truth or falsehood of urban legends.  >>H >>I think the quote below, however, WAS intended the way it sounds.  :-) >>L >>-------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > -----  > D >>The PC has bred anarchy.  Hardware, software, and peripherals haveB >>been thrown together in random configurations at the whim of anyD >>employee with access to an expense voucher and computer catalogue.C >>The result has been a financial and administrative night mare for  >>corporations.  >> >  > K > Maybe he'd already had dealings with Bill Gates when he made that remark?  > ;-)  >  >  >   ( Ever hear the expression "'dead' right"?  M It's true that PCs have been a bit of financial, support, and administration  K problem, but the other side of that coin is that they have also provided a  P significant increase in productivity and capability in some ways.  Anybody know Q of anyone who still dicates letters, memos, and such for a secretary to type up?  5   Yeah, there will be a few dinosours.  Spreadsheets?   N These applications, and some others, were available of computers prior to the M PC, but costly, and today there are many applications that probably wouldn't  O have been developed without the large number of potential customers/sales that   the PCs provided.    Dave   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 23:07:54 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> Y Subject: Re: interesting take on Olsen's "no reason for any individual to have a computer , Message-ID: <419ACE8C.36B8E6AE@teksavvy.com>   David Froble wrote: N > It's true that PCs have been a bit of financial, support, and administrationL > problem, but the other side of that coin is that they have also provided aQ > significant increase in productivity and capability in some ways.  Anybody know R > of anyone who still dicates letters, memos, and such for a secretary to type up?7 >   Yeah, there will be a few dinosours.  Spreadsheets?     L DECwrite was far more advanced that what Microsoft had to offer back in lateN 1980s. ALLIN1 had far more emaiil capabilities that Microsoft had in the 1980sM (aka: none). And Remember that the PC trend went from CC mail, to MS Mail and M then either to Lotus Notes or Exchange, each time requiring massive corporate G changes to email infrastructure. Meanwhile, ALLIN1 continued to evolve, E supporting connections to internet, PC and mac clients, despite total * de-emphasis by Digital when aplmer got in.  K Productivity gains didn't come from the PC, they came from applications and N those applications existed on VMS long before they were viable on DOS/WINDOWS.J Digital had it now. It took a very long time before Word was able to embedD spreadsheets and pictures. DEC had it in the last 1980s with the CDA architecture and DECWRITE.  M And lets not forget the MAC which had it even before Digital did and offererd H far more productivity gains thorugh much easier management and far fewer0 ALT-CTRL-DEL sequences and now, virus debugging.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 19:20:49 -0500 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>= Subject: Re: Looking for feedback on using EDM to back up VMS , Message-ID: <419A9961.5040008@tsoft-inc.com>  
 Lee wrote:  > > Rob is almost correct.  We'll eventually put the 4-node ES45@ > cluster on a GS1280 cluster.  The ES45 cluster is still on HSJ2 > but will be migrating to foreign SAN eventually.; > I've set up 8 foreign SAN shadow disks on a second GS1280 0 > cluster for running a third-party application.> > The plan is to drop our current DLT tape systems and use EDM@ > for backup.  Hence my quest for information on the EDM backup. > ; > Our 3-site, 5-node cluster remains running as long as any 1 > combination of two sites AND 3 nodes remain up.   P David seems to be worried about restoring from scratch.  There is a real simple  solution for that.  M Assuming that you're running your system off the SAN, HSJ, or whatever, have  O another small disk local VMS system disk on each system, which could be booted  O from if there is a loss that requires a restore.  A system could then boot off  M the local disk, which would have whatever is required to restore data on the  O SAN, including system disk(s).  What's a SCSI disk cost these days?  Less than  P the time spent on this topic.  Heck, have 2, one in the system, and one removed  to off-site storage.  M Caviet, I've never seen such systems, and don't know anything about them, so  5 there could be reasons why the above isn't practical.    Dave   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 19:47:26 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> $ Subject: Newsgroup moderation on VMS, Message-ID: <419A9F99.D9360E2F@teksavvy.com>  3 what would it take to moderate a newsgroup on VMS ?    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Nov 2004 12:46:42 -0800$ From: leeroth@my-deja.com (Lee Roth)1 Subject: Online forums for former digits/deccies? < Message-ID: <d0e744c9.0411161246.3563844@posting.google.com>  6 Anyone have any pointers to active forums specifically aimed at former DEC employees?  @ One interesting site is http://www.decalumni.com/ but they don't* appear to have an online discussion forum.   Thanks!    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 21:29:58 GMT 6 From: "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@NOSPAM.spyderbyte.com>5 Subject: Re: Online forums for former digits/deccies? < Message-ID: <qjumd.4170$iI2.415588@twister.southeast.rr.com>  I You want me to set one up for you on OpenVMS.org or Tru64.org?  For that  G matter I could start a mailing list.  Either way, no sweat off my back.      Ken % _____________________________________  Kenneth R. Farmer <>< % SpyderByte: http://www.SpyderByte.com       2 "Lee Roth" <leeroth@my-deja.com> wrote in message 6 news:d0e744c9.0411161246.3563844@posting.google.com...8 > Anyone have any pointers to active forums specifically  > aimed at former DEC employees? > B > One interesting site is http://www.decalumni.com/ but they don't, > appear to have an online discussion forum. > 
 > Thanks!    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Nov 2004 15:37:42 -06004 From: kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow)5 Subject: Re: Online forums for former digits/deccies? 3 Message-ID: <W8cdocIpkH6z@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <d0e744c9.0411161246.3563844@posting.google.com>, leeroth@my-deja.com (Lee Roth) writes: 8 > Anyone have any pointers to active forums specifically  > aimed at former DEC employees? > B > One interesting site is http://www.decalumni.com/ but they don't, > appear to have an online discussion forum.  , Some Chicago folks have set up www.exdec.org  1 	Bob Kaplow	NAR # 18L	TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" & 		>>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<<K Kaplow Klips & Baffle:	http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf L     www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/    www.nira-rocketry.org    www.nar.org  I         You need only reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a C         reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about I         repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the 7         struggle for independence. -- Charles A. Beard     ------------------------------    Date: 16 Nov 2004 12:48:32 -0600 From: briggs@encompasserve.org. Subject: Re: RMS Files and directories Indexes3 Message-ID: <IWPocqpj2fDF@eisner.encompasserve.org>   [ In article <1d08b916.0411160712.1af7926@posting.google.com>, mb301@hotmail.com (MB) writes: 4 > Does anyone know which hashing techniques is used? >  > Volume type: ODS2    None.    	John Briggs   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 14:23:32 -0500 ( From: "Hein" <hein.nomail@hp.nomail.com>. Subject: Re: RMS Files and directories Indexes, Message-ID: <419a55e7$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  ) "MB" <mb301@hotmail.com> wrote in message 6 news:1d08b916.0411160712.1af7926@posting.google.com...4 > Does anyone know which hashing techniques is used? >  > Volume type: ODS2   I Only the leading characters are used. No real hashing, just a range index B into the sorted directory. Right now, the minimum hash length is 3H characters. At maximum it is 15 characters.  Only one block dirindxcacheI (512 bytes) for a directory of any size. The more entries need, the lower # the number of lead characters used.   G The slowdown on larger directories, when using the XQP not RMS) is thus 
 because ofJ - The dir index cache entries are not large enough to map a small range ofJ file names. Past a few hundred blocks, the index maps only 3 characters ofD the file name. So when you needs it most, you have it the least :-(.  L - The number of available ACP_DIRCACHE blocks is too small for a given indexJ range. The blocks must be reused frequently in order to read the blocks to! know where to put the next entry.        Hein.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 14:58:06 -0500 ( From: "Hein" <hein.nomail@hp.nomail.com>. Subject: Re: RMS Files and directories Indexes, Message-ID: <419a5e01$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  ) "MB" <mb301@hotmail.com> wrote in message 7 news:1d08b916.0411150038.6a8d15c3@posting.google.com...   E > Have an application which has been generating files (62,000 approx) H > where the first 22 characters are always the same letters and numbers,D > a year down the line it taking ages just doing a simple OS commandF > like '$ dire'.  You can forget something like '$ dire/before=today'. >   F > 3. Does having the first 22 characters the same cause any problem to OpenVMS?  G - Yes, It disables any and all starting block lookup by the xqp forcing  linear read.K - Yes, It causes directory blocks to fill up pre-maturely, requiring splits % and condendes much (2x?)  more often. : - Yes, it will be hard to see the 'real name' in the crud.  K If speed is critical, please consider removing all redundant data from file  names. Change files like:- [ORDERS]MYSOOPERDOOPERSTORE20041111092304.DAT  To [ORDERS_MY.200411]11092304.D; J Yes, the D likely to be redundant also, or at least can become part of the directory naming]   D [I suppose that applications which are really desparet for directoryK efficiency, and can trust their programs and operators, they could use file 5 versions as the final name piece: [200411]1109.D;2304 J File versions just occupy a 16 bit word for the version, and the regular 6J bytes for the file ID. And those are at no extra cost as a they would have# been part of a normal entry anyway. K Thus in the crazy example each day+hour would just have one directory entry L and each minute+second would become a specific version. Or the version couldH be and ordernumber or whatever other convoluted scheme you can dream up]   Cheers,  Hein.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 15:27:04 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> . Subject: Re: RMS Files and directories Indexes, Message-ID: <419A628E.367AD199@teksavvy.com>   Hein wrote: L > File versions just occupy a 16 bit word for the version, and the regular 6L > bytes for the file ID. And those are at no extra cost as a they would have% > been part of a normal entry anyway.   N Neat. So one could have a directory with some 32000 files but with a very veryJ small directory file since it would contain essentially one logical record4 (possibly split into a couple of phsysical records).  M What is needed now is some flag in a directory file to prevent the use of the  Purge command.  L Then, you could have some applications such as NNTP/news servers that create7 large amounts of small files run extremely fast on VMS.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 15:34:26 -0500 ( From: "Hein" <hein.nomail@hp.nomail.com>. Subject: Re: RMS Files and directories Indexes, Message-ID: <419a6685$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message& news:419A628E.367AD199@teksavvy.com...
 > Hein wrote: L > > File versions just occupy a 16 bit word for the version, and the regular 6 I > > bytes for the file ID. And those are at no extra cost as a they would  have' > > been part of a normal entry anyway.  > K > Neat. So one could have a directory with some 32000 files but with a very  veryL > small directory file since it would contain essentially one logical record6 > (possibly split into a couple of phsysical records).  J Yeah. If one were to seriously consider that though, then I would probablyI design towards avoiding/minimizing splitting those records over directory > blocks. That would mean roughly 60 files per name = per block.L If I was really realy serious about directory performance I might choose NOTL to use a directory. Just create the files with 'tmd' and use an indexed fileL to maintain 'names' to fid info, or use such indexed file in addition to the regular directory.  K > What is needed now is some flag in a directory file to prevent the use of  the Purge command.   :-) K That's precisely why I added "can trust their programs and operators" in my  original suggestion    Hein.    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Nov 2004 15:27:06 -0600 From: briggs@encompasserve.org. Subject: Re: RMS Files and directories Indexes3 Message-ID: <WTRYVWrm3Kfx@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <419A628E.367AD199@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:
 > Hein wrote: M >> File versions just occupy a 16 bit word for the version, and the regular 6 M >> bytes for the file ID. And those are at no extra cost as a they would have & >> been part of a normal entry anyway. > P > Neat. So one could have a directory with some 32000 files but with a very veryL > small directory file since it would contain essentially one logical record6 > (possibly split into a couple of phsysical records).  D I think you still end up with 8 bytes per file.  6 byte file ID plusC 2 byte version number.  So you get a maximum of around 30 files per C block.  By comparison, typical file name will give you somewhere in  the area of 7 files per block.  F A factor of four to one is nothing to sneeze at, to be sure.  But it's0 not going to make a 32000 file directory useful.  N > Then, you could have some applications such as NNTP/news servers that create9 > large amounts of small files run extremely fast on VMS.   E If you want performance out of NNTP, you want to use container files,  not VMS directories.   	John Briggs   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 16:32:47 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> . Subject: Re: RMS Files and directories Indexes, Message-ID: <419A71F0.B135A6CB@teksavvy.com>   Hein wrote: L > Yeah. If one were to seriously consider that though, then I would probablyK > design towards avoiding/minimizing splitting those records over directory @ > blocks. That would mean roughly 60 files per name = per block.  M Ok, so 32k files would still represent 500 records in the directory file. Not  quite fully cached.     N > If I was really realy serious about directory performance I might choose NOTN > to use a directory. Just create the files with 'tmd' and use an indexed fileN > to maintain 'names' to fid info, or use such indexed file in addition to the > regular directory.  K Problem with this is that there are issues with system management since you K have so many files that are "unmanaged" by DCL utilities sur as DIR, and if M someone does a ANA/DISK/REPAIR, it will add all those files to SYSLOST (or is  it SYS$LOST ?).   I ALLIN1 used 9 character file names (+4 for extension), as well as indexed M files to map the document names to the obscrure VMS file names. It also split 9 files amongst a number of directories to spread the load.    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Nov 2004 16:00:11 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) . Subject: Re: RMS Files and directories Indexes3 Message-ID: <oAFFlwJub13Y@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <419A4507.358C8D6B@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > John Laird wrote: O >> I guess it *might* note the FIDs, but as long as it prevents deletion of the N >> (now non-) directory file, it could of course simply scan that, deleting byL >> FID as it goes.  That technique could get a little messy within a tree, I	 >> guess.  > N > Out of curiosity, when a file has multiple entries in different directories,P > at what level is there a marker to define how many entries exist for that file9 > ? Is it in indexf or in the actual file header itself ?   C    In the current implementation aliases are distinct from original E    entries.  Original entries can be determined by the content of the     file's header.   )    For COE links things may be different.    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Nov 2004 16:52:09 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) . Subject: Re: RMS Files and directories Indexes3 Message-ID: <RTl41oMjIfe0@eisner.encompasserve.org>   W In article <419a4e39$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>, "Hein" <hein.nomail@hp.nomail.com> writes:  > < > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message( > news:419A4507.358C8D6B@teksavvy.com...B >> Out of curiosity, when a file has multiple entries in different > directories,L >> at what level is there a marker to define how many entries exist for that > file: >> ? Is it in indexf or in the actual file header itself ? >  > There is no such count kept.J > The only indication of aliassing is the directory back link., but that's > just one link in the header.  F To do otherwise would be difficult in the face of the ODS-2 philosophyE of atomic disk updates.  "Rebuilding" an ODS-2 disk after a crash can B be deferred, since the only inaccuracy is some missing free space.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 18:54:51 GMT   From: CJT <abujlehc@prodigy.net>+ Subject: Re: Solaris 10 - no charge for o/s * Message-ID: <419A4CFA.3060701@prodigy.net>   JF Mezei wrote:  > David Mathog wrote:  > > >>Depends.  If the inkjet paints over the existing image 60 hz@ >>would be more than good enough. If instead it makes a separate? >>pass with a sponge to clean off the screen and then repaints, 1 >>then you'd probably be right about the flicker.  >  > P > Ahh, you underestimate HP. HP will have a curtain of water constantly flowing.I > And it will throw the paint on that curtain, which will be backlit. The P > "canvas" will be constantly renewed with fresh water. No need for a sponge :-) > G > (Water utility and water treatment plants may not be happy though ;-)   A Perhaps they'll outsource the engineering to somebody like Canon.   G Which suggests you may be right about the paint being thrown (as from a  cannon).   --  D The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt toC minimize spam.  Our true address is of the form che...@prodigy.net.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 16:13:40 -0500 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> + Subject: Re: Solaris 10 - no charge for o/s , Message-ID: <AqGdnTOQ3P4b8AfcRVn-oA@igs.net>   JF Mezei wrote:  > John Smith wrote: B >> HP will find a way to have an inkjet printer embedded in the TV> >> which can print your monthly cable or satellite TV bill forG >> presentment. It'll save the cable/satellite companies about $1/month F >> in material & handling costs and transfer the printing costs to the* >> consumer. She'll call it 'convergence'. > D > There have been lots of articles about the ipod recently. When youD > look at what Apple has been able to do with the Ipod, it puts into= > perspective what HP is trying to do. Apple has been able to G > essentially take a commanding lead over the walkman market, eclipsing : > giants such as Sony and is making lots of money with it. > B > Apple innovated and got ahead of the pack. Right now, HP is justB > another "me too" company with essentially rebranded products, or9 > products without sufficient maturity (such as cameras).  > B > Apple isn't influenced by Microsoft. HP is a slave of microsoft.@ > Microsoft knows it has failed with mobile phones, and its onlyG > remaining avenue is the home theatre market. It has invested in a lot E > of cable companies in north america and recently coerced Comcast to C > impose Microsoft boxes on customers. (will those TV set top boxes & > have the ALT CTRL and DEL buttons ?) > C > So, with Microsoft getting into the TV market, it is only natural   > that HP and Dell would follow. > G > Handheld gadgets are likely to converge into the mobile phone. And HP B > doesn't stand a chance in that market, especially as a MicrosoftC > slave. Sony was very wise to team up with Ericsson since it get a 6 > pretty easy foothold into the mobile phone business. > F > HP's next comsumer product should be toasters. Put in 6 IA64 CPUs inA > there, and you got a very fast toaster. Volume shipments of the C > toaster would help keep IA64 alive, even if use only as a heating 
 > element :-)     J Put enough of them together and you can open a District Heating Station inI cold climates - as long as you have a nuke right beside it to provide all  the power to heat the chips up.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 16:14:53 -0500 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> + Subject: Re: Solaris 10 - no charge for o/s , Message-ID: <UcGdnTrk5clS8AfcRVn-2A@igs.net>   JF Mezei wrote:  > David Mathog wrote: ? >> Depends.  If the inkjet paints over the existing image 60 hz A >> would be more than good enough. If instead it makes a separate @ >> pass with a sponge to clean off the screen and then repaints,2 >> then you'd probably be right about the flicker. > G > Ahh, you underestimate HP. HP will have a curtain of water constantly E > flowing. And it will throw the paint on that curtain, which will be G > backlit. The "canvas" will be constantly renewed with fresh water. No  > need for a sponge :-)  > G > (Water utility and water treatment plants may not be happy though ;-)   @ HP will just buy Evian and repackage the water into a cartridge.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 16:16:52 -0500 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> + Subject: Re: Solaris 10 - no charge for o/s , Message-ID: <oOWdnaAS5OXb8wfcRVn-sQ@igs.net>   Bob Koehler wrote:; > In article <bsWdnTdJiZgJmwfcRVn-rQ@igs.net>, "John Smith"  > <a@nonymous.com> writes: >> Bob Koehler wrote: E >>> In article <41998607.601@prodigy.net>, CJT <abujlehc@prodigy.net>  >>> writes:  >>> 5 >>>> Where does the ink cartridge go in one of those?  >>> F >>>    HP is working on the 60Hz repaint enginee to replace plasma and >>>    LCD screen technologies.  >> >>F >> Wouldn't that be at 72Hz repaint rate to avoid 'flicker' and reduce >> eye strain? > D >    You have a 72Hz system (does HDTV use that)?  60Hz is still theB >    American standard.  But IIRC a 50Hz system will be needed for
 > Britain.  I VESA refresh rate for non-flickering image is 72+ Hz - not to be confused " with the frequency of the AC line.   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Nov 2004 15:57:29 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) + Subject: Re: Solaris 10 - no charge for o/s 3 Message-ID: <vR4nHkZ76jTS@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <419A4072.E04DBB8A@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > 2 > Microsoft knows it has failed with mobile phones  H    Recent articles (Washington Post most likely) suggest that the number;    of mobile phones using Windows CE is on a distinct rise.   B    Now just what you'll do with an Excel spreadsheet and that tiny    keypad I don't want to know.    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Nov 2004 16:54:30 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) + Subject: Re: Solaris 10 - no charge for o/s 3 Message-ID: <ML07lEOmxL0a@eisner.encompasserve.org>   M In article <419A4CFA.3060701@prodigy.net>, CJT <abujlehc@prodigy.net> writes:   C > Perhaps they'll outsource the engineering to somebody like Canon.  > I > Which suggests you may be right about the paint being thrown (as from a 
 > cannon).  0 There ought to be some sort of law against that.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 19:41:14 -0500 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>+ Subject: Re: Solaris 10 - no charge for o/s , Message-ID: <419A9E2A.4030403@tsoft-inc.com>   David J Dachtera wrote:    > John Smith wrote:  >  >>David J Dachtera wrote:  >> >>>Bob Koehler wrote:  >>> = >>>>In article <76adnTV1eMeTMAXcRVn-gg@igs.net>, "John Smith"  >>>><a@nonymous.com> writes: >>>>N >>http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=738&e=1&u=/ap/20041115/ap_o >> >>>>>n_hi_te/sun_solaris10 >>>>> . >>>>>Sun to Give Out Operating System for Free >>>>> + >>>>   Sun is going to get what it's worth.  >>>>D >>>Perhaps, but the principle isn't really that goofy: give away theG >>>product, and sell the support (say, "Linux"). Support is an expense. 7 >>>Software licenses are a capital expenditure (asset).  >>> I >>>See, unlike certain folks we won't mention in this post (since we beat I >>>them bloody all too often in other posts), Sun understands that nobody = >>>gives a <censored> about TCO if the "sticker shock" of the D >>>"cost-to-acquire" keeps the product locked out of customer sites. >>> ; >>>"What it's worth" rather depends on one's point of view:  >>> H >>>o Is it "worth it" to pick up a (relative) freebie and negotiate with) >>>the bean counters for support dollars?  >>> C >>>o Is it "worth it" to beat the bean counters into submission for E >>>capital dollars and then extort support money out of them with the H >>>promise not to beat them up for capital dollars again (until the next: >>>time you have to actually "buy" an upgrade, of course)? >>> K >>The C-level execs all LOVE expenseable items but HATE captial cost items. 4 >>That's in part why they love leases vs. ownership. >> > ( > In NPO's, however, that tends to flip. >  >   N So fine.  Offer it both ways.  Support only, and one time capitol expenditure 3 for the product with X years of support bundled in.    Dave   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 19:42:52 -0500 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>+ Subject: Re: Solaris 10 - no charge for o/s , Message-ID: <419A9E8C.7000906@tsoft-inc.com>   JF Mezei wrote:    > Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > ' >>Ack.  I hate to be agreeing with JF.   >> > M > I waited until the day ended before replying. Wanted to make sure the world M > still existed after this unheard event with metaphysical repercussions. Was M > affraid Fred agreeing with me might cause some dimensional collision with a 6 > reverse universe causing both to nullify themselves. >  > Not even a major earthquake. >   Q You're not wrong all the time.  Your problem is that one major Ah Shit wipes out   50 attaboys.   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 19:46:13 -0500 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>+ Subject: Re: Solaris 10 - no charge for o/s , Message-ID: <419A9F55.2060402@tsoft-inc.com>   Soterro wrote:   > Bob Koehler wrote: > C >>   Sun should be giving away (or at least reducing the price of)   > . >  >   hardware in order to sell more Solaris. > K > Then people would install Linux on that machine and have the machine all  K > free (or get support from RedHat). Not exactly a smart move for Sun, huh?  > I > Either way, Solaris will need big development effort to match Linux in  I > the future, but especially now when it's going to be just another free  @ > OS. Let's see how they manage to build a developers community. >  > S   J I'd guess that Sun already has many applications, which indicates a large  existing developers community.  O I'm not too sure about the feasibility of developing for Linux.  There will be  N people who feel that all the software should be free, not just the OS.  Me, I + still get hungry each day, and like to eat.    Dave   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 19:48:34 -0500 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>+ Subject: Re: Solaris 10 - no charge for o/s , Message-ID: <419A9FE2.1030201@tsoft-inc.com>  
 CJT wrote:   > John Smith wrote:  >  >> Bob Ceculski wrote: >>2 >>> "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message, >>> news:<76adnTV1eMeTMAXcRVn-gg@igs.net>... >>> P >> http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=738&e=1&u=/ap/20041115/ap_o  >> >> >>>> n_hi_te/sun_solaris10 >>>>. >>>> Sun to Give Out Operating System for Free >>>  >>> 7 >>> desperate companies must do desperate things ... :)  >> >> >>G >> That's why carly(tm) is now pushing LCD TV's as the salvation of HP.  >> >>2 > Where does the ink cartridge go in one of those? >   M I see levity is happening again.  Not ink cartridges, electron (or whatever)  L cartridges.  A new cartridge is requires every so many hours to continue to  produce a picture.  :-)    Dave   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 21:30:56 -0500 2 From: Chip Coldwell <coldwell@physics.harvard.edu>! Subject: t1lib, %SYSTEM-F-HPARITH G Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0411162113550.2226-100000@frank.harvard.edu>   
 My situation:   E I have a Compaq XP1000 hobbyist system (666 MHz EV67) running OpenVMS H Alpha version 7.3-1 with no ECOs, and the C compiler that comes with the hobbyist media:    $ cc/version) Compaq C V6.5-001 on OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-1   C I'm trying to compile the t1lib-5.0.0 from decus.de.  In fact, I'm  E succeeding in compiling, it but when I try to run the simple example   program it comes with I get:   %SYSTEM-F-HPARITH, high performance arithmetic trap, Imask=00000000, Fmask=00040000, summary=02, PC=000000000006DD14, PS=0000001B N -SYSTEM-F-FLTINV, floating invalid operation, PC=000000000006DD14, PS=0000001B/ %TRACE-F-TRACEBACK, symbolic stack dump follows J   image    module    routine             line      rel PC           abs PCO  T1EXAMPLE1  TYPE1  RMoveTo              6247 00000000000037A4 000000000006DD14 O  T1EXAMPLE1  TYPE1  ClearStack           5755 0000000000001830 000000000006BDA0 O  T1EXAMPLE1  TYPE1  DoCommand            5756 0000000000000000 0000000000000000 O  T1EXAMPLE1  TYPE1  Decode               5682 00000000000014D4 000000000006BA44 O  T1EXAMPLE1  TYPE1  Type1Char            6829 0000000000004A04 000000000006EF74 O  T1EXAMPLE1  FONTFCN  fontfcnB           5441 00000000000007E4 000000000004E064 O  T1EXAMPLE1  T1SET  T1_SetString         9346 0000000000001464 00000000000340B4 O  T1EXAMPLE1  T1EXAMPLE1  main            2898 00000000000001F8 00000000000301F8 O  T1EXAMPLE1  T1EXAMPLE1  __main             0 0000000000000064 0000000000030064 O                                             0 FFFFFFFF8028563C FFFFFFFF8028563C   H Eew.  A little Googling found some postings on the HP forums suggesting J that a /NOOPT option on the compile command line will help, but it didn't G work for me.  What did work, however, was to change the /float=ieee to  - /float=g_float.  Then everything worked fine.   K So I suppose I can live that way, but it seems a little strange to me that  @ switching from IEEE to VAX floating point would fix the problem.  < Does anyone have any experience with this?  Is there an ECO?  F And if there is an ECO, how does a hobbyist obtain it? (by becoming a  paying customer?)    Chip   --   Charles M. "Chip" Coldwell System Administrator Harvard Physics Department 617-495-3388   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 19:09:32 -0800  From: Z <z@no.spam> % Subject: Re: t1lib, %SYSTEM-F-HPARITH 0 Message-ID: <10plg63er000bf9@corp.supernews.com>   Chip Coldwell wrote: > %SYSTEM-F-HPARITH, high performance arithmetic trap, Imask=00000000, Fmask=00040000, summary=02, PC=000000000006DD14, PS=0000001B P > -SYSTEM-F-FLTINV, floating invalid operation, PC=000000000006DD14, PS=0000001B1 > %TRACE-F-TRACEBACK, symbolic stack dump follows L >   image    module    routine             line      rel PC           abs PCQ >  T1EXAMPLE1  TYPE1  RMoveTo              6247 00000000000037A4 000000000006DD14  ... > > Does anyone have any experience with this?  Is there an ECO?  % This may be a problem with your code.   > What is happening at line 6247 in TYPE1.C, function RMoveTo()?   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 16:12:55 -0500 # From: "Darrell Larose" <no@spam.eh> A Subject: Re: this newsgroup heavily trolled by gay Darrell Larose / Message-ID: <o8SdnZbQCs4P8AfcRVn-sg@rogers.com>   3 I see you have violated the cease and desist order.   2 "Nomen Nescio" <nobody@dizum.com> wrote in message2 news:4e1f16935b857e4c69fad7f8df9be405@dizum.com...C > Darrell Larose <cota348@rogers.com> masturbated while fantasizing   > about JF Mezei and ejaculated: >  > > 5 > >"Nomen Nescio" <nobody@dizum.com> wrote in message 5 > >news:b2cbaabfa66fb5294289c9101525431e@dizum.com...  > >>( > >TROLLS again, and again... ad nauseum > C > Poor Darrell Larose ... still in love with JF Mezei even after JF G > rejected him and scolded him and humiliated him publically ... LOL!!!  >  > Poor gay Darrell.....  >  > Darrell Larose > 121 Northwestern Ave > Ottawa, ON K1Y 0M1 > (613) 725-0245 > cota348@rogers.com > ad607@FreeNet.Carleton.CA  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 15:19:35 -0800 , From: Ken Fairfield <my.full.name@intel.com>& Subject: Re: Upgrading HSG80 Firmware.+ Message-ID: <cne1u7$4dd$1@news01.intel.com>    Dave Baxter wrote: > Hey Guys, E > 	I am upgrading my HSG80 disk controller firmware (flashcards) from F > 8.6f to 8.7f.   I haven't done this in a while so can anyone refresh > my memory. > $ > As I recall, for a redundent pair, > % > Step 1.	Hold in both RESET buttons. ! > Step 2.  Eject old Flash Cards. " > Step 3.  Insert new Flash Cards.! > Step 4.  release RESET buttons.  >  > Does that cover the process??   ? Pretty close.  I'm assuming you'll be shutting down your system ? or cluster before this operation?  Or at least, dismounting the 0 disks hosted by the HSG pair before you start...   Step 0.a.  SHUTDOWN OTHER  Step 0.b.  SHUTDOWN THIS ... 1 Step 4. Release both RESET buttons simultaneously   ; Also note that occassionally, I've had a pair log errors on = reboot. I don't errors in front of me, by they sounded pretty  serious.  The solution was:   > Step 5. CLEAR_ERRORS THIS INVALID_CACHE DESTROY_UNFLUSHED_DATA  @ You may have to repeat this on both controllers.  Also note thatD for this command, you have to type out the full command, or at least@ the full DESTROY_UNFLUSHED_DATA.  Given you've just shutdown andD rebooted both controllers, there's no risk associated with doing so.   	-Ken  --  6 I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me...  
 Ken Fairfield ! D1C Automation VMS System Support " who:   kenneth dot h dot fairfield where: intel dot com   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 04:55:00 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing): Subject: Re: What is status %X0760822A from ROBOT utility?6 Message-ID: <00A3AFA7.00A16173@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  ] In article <cnd82i$204$1@newslocal.mitre.org>, lewis@PROBE.MITRE.ORG (Keith A. Lewis) writes:  >winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing) writes in article <00A3AEC8.B5C08205@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> dated Tue, 16 Nov 2004 02:23:46 GMT:  >>OpenVMS V7.3-2, DS20E. >>N >>Just inherited an MSL5026 (without documentation); have it plugged into the ) >>LVD SCSI port on the back of the DS20E.  >>O >>I have Media Robot Utility version 1.6 and am trying to get it to talk to the  >>library in the MSL5026.  >> >>Did  >>= >>$ MCR SYSMAN IO CONNECT GKC0:/DRIVER=SYS$GKDRIVER/NOADAPTER  > K >That's the correct command, assuming your robot device is set to SCSI ID 0 
 >on that bus.  > M >The robot tape library that I set up had 6 SCSI connections on the back -- 2 H >for each (potential) drive and 2 for the robot.  Since there was only 1M >actual drive in it, I daisy-chained the first drive's out to the robot's in, I >and then terminated the robot's out.  If you have 2 drives you'll need a D >second daisy chain cable, assuming you have the same 6 connections. > F >>Device GKC0:, device type Generic SCSI device, is online, shareable. >>Q >>    Error count                    0    Operations completed                 36 Q >>    Owner process                 ""    Owner UIC                      [SYSTEM] Q >>    Owner process ID        00000000    Dev Prot    S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G:RWPL,W:RWPL Q >>    Reference count                0    Default buffer size                   0  > , >>MRU doesn't seem to be able to talk to it. >> >>$ robot show robot gkc0 @ >>ROBOT gkc0 is not responding: Operating system specific error.4 >>%ROBOT-E-OS_ERROR, Operating system specific error >  >>$write sys$output $status  >>%X0760822A > G >That's the same status I get if I configure a GKD device which doesn't L >actually exist.  Check that the robot's interface is connected, that it hasH >the SCSI ID set correctly (0 for GKC0), it's good practice to make it a) >different ID than the tape drive itself.  > M >>In general, any advice on getting an MSL5026 started up for the first time, J >>given that it's powered on?  I think I got the SCSI stuff write; there'sO >>explicit termination, and a little green light on the terminator.  Should the / >>drives be showing up on an IO AUTOCONFIGURE ?  > J >Yes the drives themselves should show up as MK devices after a reboot or  >$ MC SYSMAN IO AUTOE >but the problem you're having is with the robot, which is a separate D >device from the tape drive and is not subject to autoconfiguration.  L This got to me thinking a little more, and I found the answer to my problem,N which was, annoyingly, that the SCSI cable wasn't seated properly in the DS20EK end.  Now it is, and MC SYSMAN IO AUTO made the drives appear.  I reset the M address of the library from the front panel to ID 3, SYSMAN IO (etcetera) for ' the device, and now it appears to work:    $ robot show robot gka300    Robot Name: gka300 Type: SCSI   4 Media Robot Identifier: COMPAQ  MSL5000 Series  0423   Slots:          25 Drives:         2  Inports:        1  Outports:       1  Transports:     1  $   N Many (somewhat shamefaced; I keep getting fooled by thinking weird stuff is myN lack of understanding of the software, when it may actually be simple hardwareK errors) thanks to the several posters who had suggestions and explanations.    -- Alan    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.638 ************************                                                                                                                                                                ief in the 'GUI-as-universal-interface', andL this perhaps accounts for the very bare CLI offerings for home-user targetedC systems: it was probably expected they would never have to use it !R  I The professional-user targeted systems faired better CLI-wise, but still,EK not a patch on the standard offerings of VMS. Unfortunately quality doesn'ti always win market share.   >,B > Right now, DCL is part of those things that I've come to realize > make using VMS so nice.L >U  L Yes, I fully agree with you ! DCL boasts some terrifically useful facilitiesL and has, I think, well-stood the test of time. My argument was for taking an7 already robust, and very useful tool, and improving it.d  K I'm proposing that DCL be enhanced so that it is more on par with languageshK like Perl, Python, and REXX [see my previous response], by allowing the DCLv user to:  F * Write their own lexical functions [i.e. same as labelled subroutinesH    but with the benefit of cleaner calling syntax, and ability to return    values directly e.g.t  *        write sys$output f$mylexical(x,y,z)      or:  "        retval = f$mylexical(x,y,z)  A *  Use object modules / library routines [via suitable interface]i=     directly from DCL. This feature may be the most difficult ?     to implement as it involves many issues, but it is also then@     one which has the most postential benefit, and is one of the;     features which makes the earlier mentioned languages soR     flexible and powerfulr  F Also suggest that a new qualifier be added to commands that works in aL manner similar to /OUTPUT, but allows trapping of command output to a symbol instead of a file e.g.       COMMAND/SYMOUT=mysymbols  C One of the respondents also mentioned a couple of useful additions.-  K More details may be found in my previous posts. Essentially all suggestionsBI seem like fairly small / modest additions that can, potentially, make DCLt  more powerful and easier to use.   Cheers,   
 Anthony BorlaM   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 14:35:44 GMTk+ From: "Anthony Borla" <ajborla@bigpond.com>gC Subject: Re: Extending DCL [was: Re: DCL suggestion for f$verify()]e= Message-ID: <4lJmd.39470$K7.23785@news-server.bigpond.net.au>   0 "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> wrote in message7 news:6PTld.24819$5b1.1649@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com...98 > "Anthony Borla" <ajborla@bigpond.com> wrote in message8 > news:NFJld.36254$K7.7440@news-server.bigpond.net.au... >c  2 John, and all [including maybe some HP'er's ;) !],   >i > [Many good ideas snipped