1 INFO-VAX	Mon, 22 Nov 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 648       Contents:& Re: %SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO, access violation Re: DECW$CLOCK design flaw ! Re: DECW$CLOCK design flaw ! Re: DECW$CLOCK design flaw ! Re: DECW$CLOCK design flaw ! Re: DECW$CLOCK design flaw ! Excursion for Windows 2000 Re: Excursion for Windows 20006 Re: f$device( "*", "DISK", , ) v. "ESS1888 AudioDrive"6 Re: f$device( "*", "DISK", , ) v. "ESS1888 AudioDrive"/ FA: Complete VMS/VAX June 2000 CD distribution.  I found this great little site- Re: OLE for Process Control (OPC) on an Alpha , Re: Online forums for former digits/deccies?, Re: Online forums for former digits/deccies?, Re: Online forums for former digits/deccies?1 RE: reporter inquiry: Is HP selling AlphaServers? 1 Re: reporter inquiry: Is HP selling AlphaServers? 1 Re: reporter inquiry: Is HP selling AlphaServers? 1 Re: reporter inquiry: Is HP selling AlphaServers? 1 Re: reporter inquiry: Is HP selling AlphaServers? 1 Re: reporter inquiry: Is HP selling AlphaServers? " Re: Solaris 10 - no charge for o/s Strange VMS related spam  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 19:41:52 -0800  From: Z <z@no.spam> / Subject: Re: %SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO, access violation B Message-ID: <Xfdod.3143$3W5.2075@newsfe12.lga.highwinds-media.com>   Himanshu wrote: ; > Can anyone help me out finding the reason for below error  ... 1 > %TRACE-F-TRACEBACK, symbolic stack dump follows H >  Image Name   Module Name     Routine Name    Line Number  rel PC      > abs PCG >  DAS_D11      DAS_D11_3_PRO_B d11_3_pro_BEIS_        8062 0000017C    
 > 00030A1CG >  DAS_D11      DAS_D11_1_MAIN  main                   4701 00000194    
 > 00030194G >  DAS_D11      DAS_D11_1_MAIN  __main                    0 00000098    
 > 00030098  F Post a few lines before and a few lines after line 8062 from the .LIS A created with <compiler>/LIST DAS_B11_PRO_B (the file name in the  ! traceback may have be truncated).    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 17:17:56 -0500 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>% Subject: Re: DECW$CLOCK design flaw ! , Message-ID: <41A11414.7030807@tsoft-inc.com>  0 > On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 23:11:17 -0500, JF Mezei  ' > <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:  >   B >> It used to be that people tough that you'd die if you exceeded  >> 100mph.  ThenG >> came steam locomotives who broke that barrier and nothing happened.  
 >> Then  came E >> the time when people though you'd disintegrate when you broke the   >> speed  ofJ >> sound. We broke it and people didn't disintegrate. There are 2 people   >> going at D >> 25 times the speed of sound right now at this very minute in the  >> space  station.    7 Interesting when used in a discussion about relativity.   Q No, the 2 people you are talking about cannot have their speed measured relative  O to the speed of sound in their location.  Sound does not propogate in a vacuum.   Q If you use the speed of sound at sea level, then by bending things a bit, you're  ; back to relativity, with respect to location at least.  :-)    Dave   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------    Date: 21 Nov 2004 15:27:52 -0800. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)% Subject: Re: DECW$CLOCK design flaw ! = Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0411211527.5dfd87c8@posting.google.com>   a JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message news:<419EC3CB.C1ED5BB9@teksavvy.com>...  > "Alan E. Feldman" wrote:H > > Despite the very surprising spookiness of certain aspects of quantumE > > mechanics, I find the possibility of going backwards in time very 
 > > unlikely.  > M > It used to be that people tough that you'd die if you exceeded 100mph. Then O > came steam locomotives who broke that barrier and nothing happened. Then came L > the time when people though you'd disintegrate when you broke the speed ofP > sound. We broke it and people didn't disintegrate. There are 2 people going atI > 25 times the speed of sound right now at this very minute in the space   station.  F The case against faster-than-light travel is far, far, far better than@ any of these. I find it very, very unlikely that it will ever be	 achieved.      > M > Physical movement at some extreme speed may accelerate time relative to you N > (but your watch would still tick forward normally). But if it is the type ofP > thing where it never quite gets to 0, then no matter how fast you go, it won't > go negative.  E With faster than light speeds, the "gamma factor" goes imaginary, not 7 negative. That's imaginary as in the square root of -1.   J > But that does not preclude traveling to the past with some other type ofF > "transport" that doesn't involve traveling way above speed of light.  & Fine. I still find it highly unlikely.  K > Consider this: if you were to travel at such a high speed that time would N > actually stop, upon slowing down you'd end up at some infinite point in timeN > (ahead). Sort of like a division by 0 thing. So whatever theory exists rightL > now probably is incapable of handling such concepts, just like division is% > unable of handling a division by 0.    Do you have a point here?    ------------------------------    Date: 21 Nov 2004 15:51:33 -0800. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)% Subject: Re: DECW$CLOCK design flaw ! = Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0411211551.43426ffa@posting.google.com>   O david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote in message news:<cnnome$mpq$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>... p > In article <b096a4ee.0411191836.4aaec51a@posting.google.com>, spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes:R > >david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote in message news:<cnktib$njp$2@news.mdx.ac.uk>...s > >> In article <b096a4ee.0411182011.3ae5e45c@posting.google.com>, spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes: s > >> >hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond) wrote in message news:<r37nd.3163$Xp4.1741@news.cpqcorp.net>... B > >> >> In article <00A3B0E7.9C61712D@SendSpamHere.ORG>, VAXman-  ! > >> >> @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:  > >> >> R > >> >> >'Tis my understanding that Mr. Einstein's theories state that any assump-R > >> >> >tion that time is consistent for all observers it not true.  I do not be-B > >> >> >lieve that his theories show that time varies negatively. > >> >L > >> >Correct, but I'd put it that different observers in different inertialI > >> >reference frames will, in general, come up with different delta-T's H > >> >for the same event. But these effects are completely negligible atJ > >> >ordinary speeds. Even at half the speed of light, the "gamma factor"J > >> >is only 1.15, meaning that if it takes 10 min. to smoke a cigarette,J > >> >someone whizzing by at half the speed of light will see it take 11.5K > >> >minutes. At 1/10 the speed of light, the gamma factor is already down J > >> >to 1.01. At normal terrestrial speeds it factor is for all practical( > >> >purposes indistinguishable from 1. > >>  : > >> Wrong.  You are only dealing with Special Relativity.K > >> Solutions to the equations of General Relativity allowing Time travel    > >> have been known since 1949. > > G > >Well, there's a difference between a theory saying something does or H > >can happen and a theory not ruling something out. I'm not sure, but IH > >interpreted VAXMAN's remark as saying that Einstein's theories do notC > >imply that going backwards in time is possible. You appear to be I > >saying that his theories don't rule it out. That's not the same thing.  > >  >  > H > The fact that solutions to the equations exist in which travel back inP > time occurs shows that given the right conditions then according to the theory > time travel is possible.    D Are you talking about making the rate of time negative or a discrete jump to the past?   " > However there are two "get outs" > Q > 1) The mismatch between General Relativity and Quantum theory show that neither G >    are a complete description of the real universe. Since we have no  H >    experimental evidence that travelling back in time is possible the G >    Theory of Everything which supersedes both General Relativity and  D >    Quantum theory need not have solutions which allow time travel. > F > 2) Godel's particular solution requires the universe to be rotating.Q >    My understanding is that this would produce physical effects which we do not J >    observe in the real Universe. Hence Godel's solution although a validJ >    solution of the equations is not likely to correspond to the physicalH >    Universe. There have been proposals that certain configurations of O >    matter on a much smaller scale than the whole universe also give solutions O >    to the equations allowing time travel. None of those configurations could  M >    be built by our civilization at present and it is possible there may be  M >    physical constraints outside of General Relativity that prevent any ever  >    being built.  >  > P > Note 1. As far as I can see the Theory of General Relativity does not just notN > rule out Time travel it says that given the right conditions time travel can	 > happen.    OK   > L > Note 2. Even if the theory which supersedes General relativity and QuantumP > theory predicts time travel as being possible the only way it can be tested isL > by experiment. A theory is just a theory it needs experimental validation.M > No theory can prove that time travel or anything else is possible. A theory N > just tries to provide an explanation for all known facts and hopefully makes9 > further predictions which can be tested experimentally.      >  >  >  >  >  > F > >But you are right that I spoke only of Special Relativity. But whenI > >General Rel. is applied to known situations, there is no backward time I > >travel. Black holes you say, but they are not known well enough to say G > >anthing about what happens should you enter one and somehow actually  > >survive.  > > F > General Relativity and Quantum theory both break down at that point. >  >  >  > > G > >Despite the very surprising spookiness of certain aspects of quantum D > >mechanics, I find the possibility of going backwards in time veryI > >unlikely. However, it is sometimes the basis of great science fiction. H > >The episode of Star Trek written by Harlan Ellison comes to mind: The@ > >City on the Edge of Forever -- my favorite Star Trek episode. > >  > ? > Although it is unlikely I'd hesitate to rule out time travel. K > Before Einstein the idea of moving forward in time at a rate greater than O > one second per second was considered impossible. Time and Space were just the ( > static background in Newtonian theory.  D I didn't say that I ruled it out. I said I found it highly unlikely.  D Admittedly, the history of predictions of things being impossible is: riddled with failures. But the uncertainty priniciple, the= speed-of-light barrier, and the laws of thermodynamics have a ' spectacularly successful record so far.    >  >  >  > >>  2 > >> See my other posting for further information. > > 2 > >I really don't want to register with that site. > >  >  > Which site ?    X http://scare.kick-ass.net/Stephen%20Hawking%20-%20A%20Brief%20History%20Of%20Time/i.html  F Maybe I'm in a different Web Universe, but when I click the above link it takes me to  X http://www.iregistrar.com/Stephen%20Hawking%20-%20A%20Brief%20History%20Of%20Time/i.html  C which talks about domain registrations and the like. It talks about C free sign up after which it only discusses price-related stuff. The E only hint of Hawking is in the URL. What do I have to do at this site  to get to the Hawking page?      > 9 > My previous posting to this newsgroup pointed at 2 URLs  > K > one a public website which had chapter 10 of Stephen Hawking's book on it : > and a link to a public review of another book on Amazon. >  >  > David Webb > Security team leader > CCSS > Middlesex University >  >  > >[...]   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Nov 2004 16:18:26 -0800. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)% Subject: Re: DECW$CLOCK design flaw ! < Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0411211618.9fa39ec@posting.google.com>  S "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message news:<opshrwxyy0zgicya@hyrrokkin>... M > On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 15:43:10 +0000 (UTC), <david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk> wrote:  > C > > In article <b096a4ee.0411191836.4aaec51a@posting.google.com>,   4 > > spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes:0 > >> david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote in message  * > >> news:<cnktib$njp$2@news.mdx.ac.uk>...E > >>> In article <b096a4ee.0411182011.3ae5e45c@posting.google.com>,   6 > >>> spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes:G > >>> >hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond) wrote in message   1 >  news:<r37nd.3163$Xp4.1741@news.cpqcorp.net>... A > >>> >> In article <00A3B0E7.9C61712D@SendSpamHere.ORG>, VAXman- " > >>> >> @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: [...]  > H > Unfortunately most people confuse theory with reality, they _really_  	 > believe L > that the universe sits on a Riemannian manifold.  Theories are only modelsJ > that allow us to make predictions within the realm to which the theory  
 > applies.L > The fact that most equations used in Physics are invariant with respect toL > time reversal, means only that.  Schrdinger equation, which effectively  
 > measuresL > the diffusion of probability is of course not. Study of the math has led   > to some remarkable  D But there is the law of detailed balance which implies time reversal? invariance (there are rare exceptions involving CP-violating K0  mesons).  M > discoveries; however, such as Dirac's prediction of the positron.  As for    > GRL > there are really only three experiments that have been performed and for   > which M > the theory predicts the observed values.  In fact, the theory was created    > to explainL > the bending of light and the anomolus advance of the perhelion of Mercury.  B Uh, I don't see that. GR was a "generalization" of special rel. toE acceleration and gravity. While the discrepancy between Newton's Laws F and Mercury's perihelion advance were well known long before Einstein,E the bending of light had to be confirmed in experiments done after GR > was published. I believe it was Eddington who went to the next> peace-time solar eclipse and took photographs that proved GR's' light-bending prediction to be correct.   ? Speaking of Mercury's discrepancy (it was 43 seconds of arc per E century -- the remaining advance being much larger and well accounted E for by Newton's theory), it was once thought that is was caused by an @ unseen planet closer to the Sun. And guess what the name of thatF planet was going to be should it have been discovered... Vulcan! I kid5 you not (See "Asimov's New Guide to Science", p.392).    [...]    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 20:10:07 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> % Subject: Re: DECW$CLOCK design flaw ! , Message-ID: <41A13C61.F75D52B1@teksavvy.com>  N Considering recent discussion, I must therefore make a request for imporvement to DECW$CLOCK, not just a fix.  N DECW$CLOCK must absolutely be able to handle cases where the CPU is travellingN and thus, DECW$CLOCK must be able to get input for current speed of travel andJ adjust current time according to Einstein's theories to display "accurate"M time. In fact, it should be able to display 2 relative times, the one for the H environment that is traveling, and one for the enviropnment which is not% travelling (all relative, of course).   K Hooks must be added to allow DECW$CLOCK to behave properly when time travel  becomes commonplace.  J In fact, DECW$CLOCK is 20 years late with these features, considering thatK some guy converted a DeLorean into a time machine back in 1985. Imagine the H marketing if VMS had been featured with a microvax II in the DeLorean to control the time circuitry.    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 21:56:00 GMT 2 From: "William Hymen" <t18_pilot@hotmail.spam.com># Subject: Excursion for Windows 2000 B Message-ID: <Q98od.8960$Qh3.4072@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>   I was running Excursion from my ; "Digital pathworks 7.0a" CD on Windows NT, and I am loosing 4 the NT box.  The old excursion will not reinstall on Windows 2k.   7 Where do I find the upgrade? How much will pathworks 32  for Windows 2000 cost?   Thanks in advance.   Bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 20:12:43 -0500 - From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> ' Subject: Re: Excursion for Windows 2000 1 Message-ID: <tYqdnVyO77KRoDzcRVn-hg@adelphia.com>    William Hymen wrote:! > I was running Excursion from my = > "Digital pathworks 7.0a" CD on Windows NT, and I am loosing 6 > the NT box.  The old excursion will not reinstall on
 > Windows 2k.  >  > Where do I find the upgrade?  & http://h71000.www7.hp.com/pathworks32/  5 http://h71000.www7.hp.com/pathworks32/latestinfo.html   3 > How much will pathworks 32 for Windows 2000 cost?   3 http://h71000.www7.hp.com/pathworks32/ordering.html   G Which has the wrong links for the software catalog for the U.S.  I did   not check the European link.  @ For U.S. use: http://h71000.www7.hp.com/swcat/us/pathwrks32.html   -John  wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 22:15:15 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>? Subject: Re: f$device( "*", "DISK", , ) v. "ESS1888 AudioDrive" + Message-ID: <41A167D3.389FFFA5@comcast.net>    sms@antinode.org wrote:  > F >    Quirk of the day (VMS V7.3-1).  Let's look for the disk drives in > DCL: > ' > ALP2 $ wso f$device( "*", "DISK", , ) 
 > _ALP2$DKA0: ' > ALP2 $ wso f$device( "*", "DISK", , )  > _ALP2$DKA400: ' > ALP2 $ wso f$device( "*", "DISK", , ) 
 > _ALP2$DVA0: ' > ALP2 $ wso f$device( "*", "DISK", , )  > _ALP2$DKB300: ' > ALP2 $ wso f$device( "*", "DISK", , ) 
 > _ALP2$AUA0: ' > ALP2 $ wso f$device( "*", "DISK", , ) 
 > _ALP2$LDA0: ' > ALP2 $ wso f$device( "*", "DISK", , )  > _ALP$DKA0:' > ALP2 $ wso f$device( "*", "DISK", , )  > _WUSS$DKA200: ' > ALP2 $ wso f$device( "*", "DISK", , )  > _WUSS$DKA300: ' > ALP2 $ wso f$device( "*", "DISK", , )  > _WUSS$DKA400: ' > ALP2 $ wso f$device( "*", "DISK", , )  >  >    One of these stands out:  > ! > ALP2 $ sho dev /ful _ALP2$AUA0:  > P > Disk AUA0:, device type ESS1888 AudioDrive, is online, record-oriented device, >     carriage control.  > Q >     Error count                    0    Operations completed                  2 Q >     Owner process      "MMOV$SERVER"    Owner UIC                      [SYSTEM] Q >     Owner process ID        22600425    Dev Prot            S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G:R,W Q >     Reference count                2    Default buffer size                   0  > 6 >    Does this make sense in some way not clear to me?  0 What does F$GETSYI( "AUA0", "DEVCLASS" ) return?  E (I gotta look up device classes in the docset at work tomorrow to see  what each one is...)   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    ------------------------------  + Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 22:51:15 -0600 (CST)  From: sms@antinode.org? Subject: Re: f$device( "*", "DISK", , ) v. "ESS1888 AudioDrive" ) Message-ID: <04112122511555@antinode.org>   % Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 22:15:15 -0600   	 > > [...] ) > > ALP2 $ wso f$device( "*", "DISK", , )  > > _ALP2$AUA0: 	 > > [...] # > > ALP2 $ sho dev /ful _ALP2$AUA0:  > > R > > Disk AUA0:, device type ESS1888 AudioDrive, is online, record-oriented device, > >     carriage control.  > > S > >     Error count                    0    Operations completed                  2 S > >     Owner process      "MMOV$SERVER"    Owner UIC                      [SYSTEM] S > >     Owner process ID        22600425    Dev Prot            S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G:R,W S > >     Reference count                2    Default buffer size                   0   2 > What does F$GETSYI( "AUA0", "DEVCLASS" ) return?  ( alp $ wso F$GETSYI( "AUA0", "DEVCLASS" )A %DCL-W-IVKEYW, unrecognized keyword - check validity and spelling   \AUA0\    But:  ? ALP2 $ wso F$GETdvI( "AUA0", "DEVCLASS" )       ! PWS 500 a[u].  1   3 alp $ sea /mat = and decc_include:dcdef.h dc, " 1 " N #define DC$_DISK 1                      /* DISK                             */   While:  C alp $ wso F$GETdvI( "AUA0", "DEVCLASS" )        ! AlpSta 200 4/233.  98  4 alp $ sea /mat = and decc_include:dcdef.h dc, " 98 "N #define DC$_AUDIO 98                    /* General audio                    */  3    So, it's consistently wrong.  I feel better now.   H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode-org     Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 20:51:44 +0100 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> 8 Subject: FA: Complete VMS/VAX June 2000 CD distribution.' Message-ID: <41A0F1D0.C1BD2934@aaa.com>   G The following CD's are including (the full original "June 2000" kit, as  far as I know) :  E Consolidated Software Promotional ECO Distribution, "June 2000",  two 
 disks (both). D OpenVMS VAX Software Product Library, "June 2000", two disks (both).* Compaq System Tools, one disk, April 2000.@ OpenVMS VAX Software Product Library, "June 2000", 9 disks (all, 1-9(9)...).     = http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5733654263   
 Best Regards, 	 Jan-Erik.    ------------------------------  ! Date: Sun, 21 Nov 04 18:24:50 GMT : From: lisawill4u@yahoo.com(I found this great little site)' Subject: I found this great little site = Message-ID: <04112118245097837@newshost.allthenewsgroups.com>   \I found this great little site. I signed up two weeks ago and got 2 Disney tickets and this week they are sending me 2 Universal Studios tickets. Here's the link http://66.219.102.40/ and by the way I am a real person, this is my real email address. I'm not a spammer and didn't appreciate the nasty email I got last time I tried to post this link. Thanks, Lisa   http://66.219.102.40/    http://66.219.102.40/    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 23:36:47 -0000 6 From: "Alex Daniels" <AlexNoSpamDaniels@themail.co.uk>6 Subject: Re: OLE for Process Control (OPC) on an Alpha5 Message-ID: <41a12691$0$1072$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>   - "Ivan Lowe" <vms@dynsim.com> wrote in message 4 news:s3ynd.17033$Y7.337@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk...K > Has anyone come across an OPC Client that can operate under Alpha OpenVMS  >  > Thanks >  > Ivan >  >   . http://h71000.www7.hp.com/wizard/wiz_3244.html   Alex   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 18:58:32 GMT 1 From: Lady Chatterly <not-bot@catcher.in.the.rye> 5 Subject: Re: Online forums for former digits/deccies? * Message-ID: <5f6b84c.efcea79a@130.133.1.4>  b In article <d0e744c9.0411171656.1c437b5a@posting.google.com> leeroth@my-deja.com (Lee Roth) wrote: > = >Actually, I was checking what was available before I started = >one of my own. A mailing list is definitely not a desireable  >option to me.   Why are you so positive?   >Thanks!  F Will have a look at the quote in my headers Kali, when I first read it= in Greek mythology, I was astounded that someone pre field of C psychology was asking people to reflect on themselves and I find it C an important reminder N ot only to myself but to others to take the D time to research this brotherhood and expose it to your members, and
 community?   -- Lady Chatterly  = "Ok it is now official, Hans is a Danish bot." -- FrozenNorth    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 12:45:32 -0800  From: Z <z@no.spam> 5 Subject: Re: Online forums for former digits/deccies? A Message-ID: <h97od.3080$OO2.715@newsfe12.lga.highwinds-media.com>    Lee Roth wrote: J >>Lee Roth ... geez, your name sounds familiar ... did you use Notes much? ...   A > "Z" eh? Do you have a homepage (that I just looked at) that has @ > half a car sticking out of the wall? If so, I recall your name > as well from the notesfiles!!    Small world, isn't it?   Yes, that's me.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 13:46:27 -0800  From: Z <z@no.spam> 5 Subject: Re: Online forums for former digits/deccies? A Message-ID: <t28od.3089$7d3.769@newsfe12.lga.highwinds-media.com>    Lee Roth wrote: A > "Z" eh? Do you have a homepage (that I just looked at) that has @ > half a car sticking out of the wall? If so, I recall your name > as well from the notesfiles!!   C Hey, Lee.  I can't send e-mail to the e-mail address in your posts  ! (leeroth@my...). It gets bounced.    Please send me e-mail.  @ Use the "hello" address displayed on my web page that you found.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 15:05:43 -0500 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> : Subject: RE: reporter inquiry: Is HP selling AlphaServers?R Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB4A4A26@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----8 > From: Bill Gunshannon [mailto:bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu]=20! > Sent: November 21, 2004 1:10 PM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com < > Subject: Re: reporter inquiry: Is HP selling AlphaServers? >=20   [snip..]   >=20: > And you think not upgrading would be a good thing??  :-( >=20	 > bill=20  >=20 > --=20 B > Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. =20 > Three wolvesF > bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton   |E > Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>  =20   B Remarks had nothing to do with the upgrade - rather the company he alluded to do it (DEC].    You must have missed my smiley.    Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  $ "OpenVMS has always had integrity .. Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .."   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 16:48:59 -0500 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> : Subject: Re: reporter inquiry: Is HP selling AlphaServers?, Message-ID: <yOednaJoXf_WkDzcRVn-uw@igs.net>  F -- Anyone surprised by revenue decline on AlphaServers? (Why buy new?)    H My perspective is that I'd never want to buy a 'new' system in the firstL year of production - much like not wanting to buy a particular make/model of car during its first year.    J IA64/VMS8.2 (the production release) is not available yet and isn't likelyH to be shipping until 2005Q1. If my production needs needed a performance? boost, we'll buy more Alpha's - not IA64, at least for a while.     E However, the sales decline of Alphaservers is no surprise at all. Any J observant person fully expected this since June 25, 2001 and before (given= comments by Curly Capellas in the months leading up to then).          Look at the o/s situation:    8 Tru64 is dead. Nobody is buying it so Alpha sales slide.     =======================   > An interesting tidbit from my collection of archived messages:  + From: AlphaServer <AlphaServer@digital.com> 2 To: "'alphaserver-update@majordomo.das-x.dec.com'", <alphaserver-update@majordomo.das-x.dec.com>* Subject: DIGITAL AlphaServer Update 3/2/98$ Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 08:33:52 -0500
 X-Priority: 3 - X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) 8 Sender: owner-alphaserver-update@majordomo.das-x.dec.com X-UIDL:    DIGITAL AlphaServer Update
 March 2, 1998 " http://www.digital.com/alphaserver   <major snip>    
 Did you know? H More than 50 percent of UNIX sales at DIGITAL are to NEW customers. And,J more than 50 percent of all Alpha systems sales at DIGITAL are on the UNIX	 platform.   E So in 1998 more than 50% of Alpha sales were attributable to VMS. VMS I certainly has not be effectively advertised for a long time and now Tru64 0 Unix for HP on Alpha is toast. Whadda ya expect?    4 ====================================================    J The o/s of the week - Linux - is only being promoted on IA64 and x86 by HP so Alpha sales slide.     K OpenVMS is the only viable operating system on Alpha and HP does absolutely F nothing to advertise or market it into markets where it truly shines -H disaster-tolerant, clusters, reliable utility infrastructure, crashproofI SOA, etc... so what do you expect will happen to Alpha sales. And HP does 6 even less for VMS in markets that they don't consider.        H Digital made the mistake in 1991-93 time frame of early announcing Alpha7 thereby freezing sales of VAX in anticipation of Alpha.     L Compaq made the mistake on June 25, 2001 of killing the Alpha chip without aF viable successor ready to ship. Again purchasing decisions are frozen.L Customers began to evaluate their options and many chose to begin to migrateH away from Tru64 and OpenVMS then. Still many chose to wait it out to see what would transpire with IA64.     F Then we are brought to a further indecisive period for customers - theJ announcement of the HP buyout of Compaq in September 2001 and the profound) silence from HP about VMS until May 2002.          My $0.02 --   : HP made the mistake of not undoing the death of Alpha cpu.  ( It's a better cpu than PA-Risc and IA64.  . Both IBM and Samsung were decent FAB partners.  " Tru64 is a better unix than HP-UX.  L It would have been less costly in all ways for HP to get ISV's to port HP-UXG supported apps to Tru64 and roll the precious few HP-UX 'features' that L Tru64 didn't have into Tru64 vs. making Tru64 an 'organ donor' to HP-UX evenC though the customer base was larger on the HP-UX side of the house.   @ The NSK port to Alpha could have continued without interruption.  E VMS Engineering could have been more focused on new functionality vs.  porting to IA64.  G VMS sales would not have been placed into a relative state of suspended 
 animation.  K HP could have come back to Microsoft 3 years ago to dust-off 64-bit Windows 	 on Alpha.   G EV8 was arguably no later down the road than a decent IA64 (we're still C waiting) and still would have outperformed IA64 of similar vintage.     I Alpha was a more cost effective desktop-to-data center chip far more than  IA64 ever will be.        J But the real issues is not Alphaservers at all but the effective marketingF of the operating systems which run on Alpha and now HP IA64 equipment.L Convince the customer that they want your operating system and they will buyJ the hardware that it runs on. In the case of OpenVMS, current HP plans areJ that VMS will only run on IA64 hardware from HP - but that may not striclyK be true. It may run on IA64 servers from other manufacturers today, and may I become fully supported on other vendor hardware in the future - just like L Windows is. So what's the smart thing for HP to do? --- To advertise OpenVMSI to build marketshare irrespective of whose hardware it runs on over time.     L But instead HP advertisies Windows on x86. When HP loses a customer to Dell,J they lose everything - the small amounts of money they make on the o/s and* the hardware but Microsoft is still happy.        L For all the months between the time the HP/Compaq deal was announced and theG completion of the merger, all other operating systems in the stable had L complete roadmaps laid out and commented upon by HP, all that is except VMS.K Customers were in a holding pattern waiting the words as to whether VMS was  dead or alive.    G Others will, and have, commented that Compaq's "Plan of Record" was out J there for all to see. That is true. But the acquiring company, HP, made noJ comments about VMS while at the same time making all sorts of comments andI commitments about all the other Compaq owned operating systems. By HP not I making clear and unequivocal statements about VMS during this period they B only sowed the seeds of futher doubt in the minds of customers and prospective customers.    L Finally the word came down form Scott Stallard in about May 2002 in the formJ of a memo saying that HP expected VMS customers to migrate to HP-UX. AfterL the customer epithets, the Stallard memo was erased from the HP web site andJ replaced with corporate revisionism in the finest traditions of Joe StalinG and the Communist Party of the Soviet Union. Again, more uncertainty in K customer's minds as to whether HP was worthy of their trust with respect tos VMS.          -- OpenVMS implications, if any?    % Sure....No new Alpha CPU speedups....w  J IA64 still perceived as a high-cost low-volume beta chip for all intents &4 purposes. Each chip is more costly than Alpha cpu's.    H Still no advertising & marketing for VMS to indicate to the Fortune 5000+ that HP cares one iota about VMS long-term.o    F There are new customers who purchase VMS where the application is wellJ defined and a leading/dominant one in its space. Cerner's medical apps, OMH Group's securities exchange applications, and Gtech lottery applicationsH come to mind, where the proven capabilites of the application and of VMSE together coupled with the availability and time-to-deliver the chosen C solution are critical. Since one can cluster additional machines toiI accomodate increased transaction volumes, applications like these will begI able to survive a long time even if VMS is EOL'd by HP. Don't forget that-E financial services in particular are less price sensititive than yournK average customer. Reliability is key for them and VMS has it in spades. ButdD how many securities exchanges are there left to be had by VMS as newF customers? How many new hospitals open each year? How many new lottery( corporations open their doors each year?    K The broader perception outside the existing customer base is that VMS is as J good as dead irrespective of its strengths and features. The ISV portfolioK of applications has constantly decreased over the past number of years as a C result of not seeing growth in sales of VMS offerings and a lack of C commitment by HP to do much other than list an ISV on its web site.n    L Indeed, among ISV's and those prospective new customers who might be willingI to use VMS, the impression is largely one of "If HP doesn't advertise and-E market it, how can I go to my management and convince them that HP ismI committed to VMS. My career is on the line and I'm not about to make that < sort of bet without widely visible support from HP for VMS."    I I run into senior and mid-level technology managers all the time, many of I whom are former VMS users, who wax eloquently about how they'd like to be>I using VMS again but that it's a hard sell to convince those that sign thegH cheques that it would be a good move for their company given HP's publicL indifference. They'd like to see public promotion of VMS vs. under-the-tableL winks and nods that HP is committed to VMS and the surest indication of thatK to most of them is that HP spends real money on real VMS advertising beforetJ they expend their personal political capital within their organizations on' what is a losing proposition otherwise.a    K They also point out to the lack of choice for many 3rd-party applications -aH in many instances there is but one or two vendors to choose from vs. theE broader range of applications in a specific niche for other operatingiJ systems. They also speak of the lack of 'fresh meat' - new hires - who areH familiar with the VMS way of doing things. This is a result of a fatallyH flawed .edu policy for VMS by HP. The more users of VMS, the broader the> application base and the broader the talent pool to draw from.        K Then there is Microsoft, shaking trees and prospective Linux customers withj things like:  F "Microsoft warned Asian governments on Thursday they could face patentD lawsuits for using the Linux operating system instead of its Windows software. "C  / http://news.zdnet.com/2100-3513_22-5457879.htmlr      < Yet HP does nothing to promote OpenVMS as a reliable, robustE infringement-safe o/s since most of the technology in it predates the  patenting of software.        H Serious companies are fed-up with being members of the Patch-of-The-HourL Club. OpenVMS is a viable alternative for many of them in the datacenter butK precious few know about it and even fewer use it. I'm reminded of the lines K from the movie "Dr. Strangelove" which goes something like, "Why didn't youoL tell the world about it? ....It was to be announced at the Party congress on2 Monday. You know how the Premier loves surprises."    K HP is like that - they're not telling the world about VMS. They're grindinglF a viable business into the ground as a result. As a HP shareholder I'm	 appalled.         G Some here have said VMS has had a banner couple of years with increasedrF sales, but since HP does not breakout revenue and profitability at theJ operating system level (only at the Enterprise division level), we have noH hard numbers to validate the accuracy of those statements. That there isL ample skepticism of HP's intentions at the corporate level towards VMS makes; these claims of profitablility viewed with a jaundiced eye.t    I We hear of occasional deals where a new VMS customer is brought on-board.dH Given the large number of individuals from around the globe in differentK industries who frequent c.o.v., Encompass, and www.openvms.org, you'd thinktC that we'd be hearing at least anecdotally about sales of VMS to new J customers on a regular basis - all this in an industry where customers areK constantly stolen from other vendors on a daily basis. Nope. Instead we are0K constantly regaled with the mythical 411,000 installed systems worldwide, a1L number which appears little changed in nearly a decade despite known massive! erosion in the VMS customer base.         K At present the problem lies squarely at Carly Fiorina's feet (previously ataG Curly Capellas' feet). She has had ample opportunity to proudly promoteeK OpenVMS at numerous event and speechs, press interviews, Investment BankinglL forums, and the like - but she never does. She is exactly the same as YasserI Arafat, who was once described by the Israeli Foreign Minister Abba Eban,@; "(S)He never misses an opportunity to miss an opportunity."     I There is no direction given to advertise or market VMS. The result of allnI the foregoing: Buyer paralysis and serious migration efforts from VMS for72 all but the most committed or locked-in customers.    J Add to it the backpedalling of IA64 expectations from Intel themselves andK my sad guess is that VMS will be announced as EOL within 2-3 years of todayoI because IA64 will have the rug pulled out from under it due to poor saless   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 21:37:58 -0600h2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>: Subject: Re: reporter inquiry: Is HP selling AlphaServers?+ Message-ID: <41A15F16.AA02B1C0@comcast.net>    Keith Parris wrote:n >  > David J Dachtera wrote:e8 > > New VMS customers? Forget it. HP is in total denial. > < > Nonsense. I see reports of new VMS customers all the time.   URLs please?  C > When OMX sets up a new exchange, there is a VMS disaster-tolerant H > cluster at its core. International Securities Exchange was a brand-new8 > VMS customer. Singapore Exchange is one of the latest.  C ...and that created HOW many U.S. jobs? ...posted on which U.S. job  boards?   G ...and that provided opportunities to HOW many U.S. firms? URLs Please?i  A One example - we need tens of thousands *A* *DAY* just to *BEGIN*n gaining ground!   J > When Cerner sells its software to a hospital, 75% of the time it will be; >   on VMS. (The others have to suffer with AIX and pains.)r  : Indications from Cerner do not corroborate that statement.  H > > The two actions that VMS/HP *MUST* take to ensure the future of VMS: > >a > > 1. Port to IA32h > C > Folks can already run VMS on IA32 today, thanks to the Charon-VAX 3 > emulator (or simh or TS-10 on the freeware side).i  H That's an emulation, not a port - VMS runs two or three layers deep, not	 natively.i   > I can run VMS on theH > Pentium-based Windows XP laptop I'm using to write this, thanks to Bob > Supnik's simh.  D ...and that runs on HOW many of those hundreds (if not thousands) of' IA32 servers in the average datacenter?Q  D ...and supports HOW many legacy CI-based clusters and storage farms?  C ...and HOW many new VMS customers* put that up on new installationsvG every day (where they could have used Windows server sofwtare? (Oh yeaheF - you gotta run Windows server software just to provide a platform for Charon VAX!)   Revised statement:    1. Port to *NATIVE* IA32o  ( > > 2. Advertise - Advertise - Advertise >  > Can't disagree with that.h   Who can?  = > I do see OpenVMS mentioned in every HP Integrity Server ad.U  1 Better to see integrity mentioned in OpenVMS ads.    *:D For now, let's focus on getting U.S. based VMS folks and OEMs, VARs,D ISVs, etc. back to work and out of bankruptcy. The rest of the world* follow naturally as the U.S. market grows.   -- u David J Dachtera dba DJE Systemst http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:u" http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/u  " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 21:44:59 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>: Subject: Re: reporter inquiry: Is HP selling AlphaServers?+ Message-ID: <41A160BB.6EF2A941@comcast.net>r   JF Mezei wrote:i >  > Keith Parris wrote:p
 > > [snip]L > > When Cerner sells its software to a hospital, 75% of the time it will be= > >   on VMS. (The others have to suffer with AIX and pains.)o > ? > http://www.cerner.com/technologies/technologies_3a.asp?id=684e > L > Shows AIX and VMS on equal footings. But the jobs section of that web site! > shows AIX jobs and no VSM jobs.   H I have conference calls with the VMS folks at Cerner two and three timesF a week. AIX takes vastly more human resources than VMS - that's common
 knowledge.   > While it is quite possible  4 ...but not likely, if they're on "equal footing"...   3 > that 75% of existing Cerner customers are on VMS,a  H Indications from Cerner are actually that AIX is more prevalent in their customer base than VMS.m   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:p" http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/i  " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/r   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 22:37:27 -0500F# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>d: Subject: Re: reporter inquiry: Is HP selling AlphaServers?, Message-ID: <EICdnd2SOKllwzzcRVn-uQ@igs.net>   Main, Kerry wrote: >> -----Original Message----- 7 >> From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com] " >> Sent: November 19, 2004 5:15 PM >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com= >> Subject: Re: reporter inquiry: Is HP selling AlphaServers?k >> >> Keith Parris wrote:> >>> Nonsense. I see reports of new VMS customers all the time. >>>eE >>> When OMX sets up a new exchange, there is a VMS disaster-tolerant > >>> cluster at its core. International Securities Exchange was >> a brand-new: >>> VMS customer. Singapore Exchange is one of the latest. >>< >> But when you rehash the same customers over and over, for >> many years, one has; >> to wonder just how many new customers you got THIS YEAR.r >>; >> Heck, you could flaunt CAE as being a brand new and veryU >> large VMS customer.9 >> It was in the early 1980s. But it isn't a VMS customero >> anymore since its8 >> flight simulators have migrated to cheaper platforms. >> >o > JF,g >rG > Re: re-hashing Cust's .. In addition to Keith's post on ISE and others > .. >iF > While most Cust's do not agree to public testimonials (or at best itB > takes a long time to get legal approvals), here are a few recent2 > OpenVMS new Cust's and recent news in the press: > G > Singapore Exchange - brand new - and these folks always think in longnF > term strategies. Do you think high security and *No Virus's* did not? > play in their decision or that this was not an advantage overr > competing platforms ? F > http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=04/01/22/7074154 (Jan 2004) >p< > Other recent OpenVMS upgrade wins in very mission critical= > environments: (ASX and Korea Futures Exchange - April 2004)i0 > http://www.finextra.com/fullstory.asp?id=11683 > / > And on new OpenVMS ISV enhancements: Acucorp: G > http://www.acucorp.com/company/press/releases/2004/2004_pr_4.php (Mayo > 2004) ? > "Acucorp Enhances Support for OpenVMS by Offering Thin Client  > Computing Capabilities"c >(E > "Like HP, Acucorp continues to bring the latest technologies to theeG > OpenVMS platform," explains Joe Seiley, Acucorp's Director, StrategiceB > Partnerships. "Our commitment to OpenVMS began years ago when weG > originally announced support for this server line. It continues todayrE > with enhancements like thin client computing and OpenVMS on Itaniumc > support."  >>: > And on recent OpenVMS Cust's in the press: (August 2004)F > http://www.cxotoday.com/cxo/jsp/article.jsp?article_id=1297 (Gaming)H > "Speaking about the operating systems used, Nanda said, "The operatingA > system on our OSS is OpenVMS. We chose this since Alpha serverssE > presently support either OpenVMS or True64 Unix. Almost all LotteryoG > systems in the world use OpenVMS as it is found to be the ideal OS torF > handle high transaction based businesses. Also the security controlsF > offered by OpenVMS are tremendous. The fact is further substantiatedF > as there have been no known virus for OpenVMS neither has there beenA > any incidents of hacking into OpenVMS based systems till date."  >aG > http://www.mimer.com/news.asp?secId=176&itemId=112 (JF, Canadian Cust  > for you - Sept 2004)E > "We were looking for a cost effective and high performance DBMS forrE > our mission-critical systems without having to leave OpenVMS", sayshA > Mike Soucie, Information Systems and Technology Coordinator, DJrF > Galvanizing. "Mimer SQL more than fulfills all our requirements, andD > we're also very pleased of how easily we could integrate Mimer SQLG > into our existing Cobol and Borland's Delphi development environment"  >cG > And on the Services side - not a new Cust, but USD $784M OpenVMS Win:l > (March 2004); > http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/2004/040324a.htmle >eE > Other - University Porting Open Source Software to OpenVMS Itanium:t > (Feb 2004)0 > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/news/ospp_turin.html >e >RB > Bottom line is that there is a lot more going on with regards to7 > OpenVMS than just what is discussed in the newsgroup.t      H In fact there have only been 2 mentions of OpenVMS by name in the past 4? years in one of the leading US Wall Street financial technology 
 publications.u  K The following quote about Wildfire systems from 2000 is as meaningful todaydB in the context of Marvel and smaller Alphas as it was 4 years ago:F "However, simply preserving the existing user base will not be enough.J Compaq needs to leverage the GS product to grow market share in areas suchG as capital markets, particularly in the Unix space," says Gartner GrouptE analyst Tom Henkel. "That means that it needs to be considerably morerL aggressive and better focused in winning new business for these servers. TheH company was not able to deliver any meaningful performance benchmarks atF announcement nor did it outline any aggressive programs to attract newD customers, so I question whether the Wildfire marketing approach, asJ currently outlined by the company, is going to deliver the market boost it really needs."   and this in the same article:e  B "At launch, Compaq proudly referred to some 240 odd orders for the9 Wildfire-Sun sells that many high-end servers in a week."w     From the same publication:L "The Singapore Exchange Ltd. (SGX) hired OM, Sweden's transaction technologyK vendor, to supply it with an integrated trading platform based on its ClicknE XT system. The new platform will support all trading from traditionalLK securities and derivatives to advanced cross-border trades. Click XT, whichaD is the next generation of the OM Click solution, supports trading inJ multiple markets on a single platform, including equities and derivatives,L fixed income and commodities. The contract covers licensing, implementation,I and support of the system. SGX will call the new trading engine SGX QUESTb (SGX  L Quotation and Execution System for Trading). The system is slated to go liveL in the derivatives market by the third quarter of 2004 and in the securities" market by the first half of 2005."  8 Note the conspicuous lack of mention of OpenVMS by name.    J A search of the same publication reveals 68 mentions of Solaris during the same timeframe and 15 for AIX.L And there's only one mention of OpenVMS in leading American banking industryH technology magazines in the past 4 years, and only in the context of the Compaq/HP merger.r  I All this stunning lack of visibility in marketplaces which HP claims as a? key set of venues for VMS.  G Way to go HP. Let's INVENT ways to make VMS even more negligible in the L marketplace. You can do it - I have every confidence that HP will succeed in this holiest of quests.h    H I could probably do a parody of Dire Straits "I want My MTV" for VMS andF carly's(tm)  wanting to "move those custom printers and LCD TV's" if I wasn't so tired right now.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 22:05:04 -0600-2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>: Subject: Re: reporter inquiry: Is HP selling AlphaServers?+ Message-ID: <41A16570.45F97CC2@comcast.net>8   Rich Jordan wrote: > [snip] > As of this year companies A > have to be able to provide over $1,000,000.00 dollars in annual C > hardware/system sales in order to 'qualify' to resell OpenVMS and( > Alpha systems.    ? I read that as HP is forcing the re-introduction of multi-levelKH distribution. That is, wholesale distributors have to buy Alphas by "theH container load", then dispense them through their down-line distribution	 channels."  > This provides them isolation from the end-user by putting the % wholsaler, VAR, OEM, etc. in-between."  F Now granted, that *IS* putting the cart before the horse and the cargo@ on the ground before the cart (that is, some steps are missing).G However, it is consistent with what we see coming out HP at many levels # these days - that is, cluelessness.   F None the less, it does at least illustrate the intentional emplacementG of model that could success if certain changes could be negotiated intor0 it (not likely, based on HP's behavior to date).  1 > We're a small company selling into small-mediumlG > businesses, and placed anywhere from 1 to perhaps 6 systems per year,   E Now, if there were 1,000 such businesses still surviving in the U.S.,5@ perhaps we could back up the OpenVMS and Alpha sales claims that continue to appear.   D Perhaps that 1,000 level should be our goal for the end of CY2005. ID know of at least one business locally who might still qualify at the "distributor" level.   > [snip]F > HP didn't want our business, they didn't want our (small) customers,E > and the only thing their sales people would _ever_ talk to us about H > was windows and HP wintel servers.  We could not find anyone at HP (inC > sales) to talk to about VMS or Alpha systems, and letters sent tooG > various folks (including Ms. Fiorina) when they flushed all the small/  > resellers went unresponded to.  H Not surprising, given the above. Trouble is, HP/VMS has never (that I amA aware of) come forward and stated such as their intended businessi= direction. All we get is thet "up-scale, niche market" stuff.2  F > As an indication of the apparent contempt HP corporate has for smallH > fry like us, and our customers (just another source of revenue as longD > as they don't have to do anything for it), this year HP raised theE > license transfer fee, which is used to transfer a system's base ando@ > transferable licenses when a system is sold to a new customer.H > Reduced as we are to reselling used systems, it was unpleasant to findG > out that even the cost of that increase by 1/3rd... and believe me we @ > are not seeing any additional services, improved speed, or anyE > increase in the number of transferable package licenses to go alongSC > with that increase.  Ms. Fiorina and other management folks neverL6 > responded when we wrote to them about that either...  E Well, as history has shown, these are not incredibily astute businessCH people. At the very least, witness: Itanic. Talk about backing the wrong horse...  G > However, to more closely answer your actual question:  we have quoted B > a couple of new DS15s this year (via a 'partner' who is actuallyG > allowed to sell them) and there was not supposed to be any backlog or F > delay in getting those systems to the customer.  HP didn't get thoseG > sales; one went Dell, one went Sun (a VMS site loss).  No idea on any  > larger boxes.-  D I will say this: orders we've placed for "mid-size" (ES4x class) andD "mainframe" (GS1280 class) systems through our two main vendors haveG been filled without delays that were not introduced by customs (GS1280s-H come from the UK - customs seems to "leak" these systems at a surprisingD rate). Actually getting stuff through customs is, of course, anotherF question. I just hope OBL's bunch aren't using the GS1280 that customs1 "lost" for us two years ago to plan their idiocy.o   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems) http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:," http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/,  " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/0   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 17:07:57 -0500e( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>+ Subject: Re: Solaris 10 - no charge for o/s , Message-ID: <41A111BD.1030506@tsoft-inc.com>   John Vottero wrote:u  = > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message t( > news:41998EFF.7CFC47A5@teksavvy.com... >  >>Fred Kleinsorge wrote: >>' >>>Ack.  I hate to be agreeing with JF.  >>> H >>I waited until the day ended before replying. Wanted to make sure the  >>worldtJ >>still existed after this unheard event with metaphysical repercussions.  >>WasiL >>affraid Fred agreeing with me might cause some dimensional collision with  >>a 6 >>reverse universe causing both to nullify themselves. >> >>Not even a major earthquake. >> > 5 > There was a 7.3 in Indonesia and a 6.7 in Columbia., >  > Please stop making sense!m >  >  >    Shouldn't be a problem.  :-)   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Roade Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 00:20:58 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>1! Subject: Strange VMS related spaml, Message-ID: <41A17724.65A021AE@teksavvy.com>  3 I received a very interesting email today (sunday).r  k It was allegedly adressed to private3921@teksavvy.com and allegedly From user_info@eisner.encompasserve.orge  L I didn't get the contents because my ISP's spam filtering service  allegedly5 removed the virus and sent me a virus warning report.l  J Normally, I just discard spam. But this one is puzzling since it allegedlyL originated from a decus USA (is encompasserve still their name this week ?),0 in fact, eisner is the former decusserve system.  L However, one IP listed in an untrustable Received: line mentions xbfnaai.orgO (non existant) and 203.217.30.254  (which is some australian IP at iinet.net.au   J The presence of the US DECUS current name makes me suspect harvesting fromG comp.os.vms, but berpahs also suspect the perpetrator is well versed inaG dec/decus/vms context for him/her/it to know about eisner and user_info C account (is that a valid account in the former decusserve system ?)e   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.648 ************************