1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 24 Nov 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 653       Contents:< Re: Any reason why MSL5026S2 wouldn't want to show me tapes? Re: Any VMS bloggers at HP? " Re: DEC retail stores in the 1980s" Re: DEC retail stores in the 1980s" Re: DEC retail stores in the 1980s" Re: DEC retail stores in the 1980s" Re: DEC retail stores in the 1980s" Re: DEC retail stores in the 1980s Excursion for Windows 2000 Re: Excursion for Windows 2000 Re: Excursion for Windows 2000: Re: Extending DCL [was: Re: DCL suggestion for f$verify()]: Re: Extending DCL [was: Re: DCL suggestion for f$verify()]: Re: Extending DCL [was: Re: DCL suggestion for f$verify()]" Re: FAST BOOT OF SIMH VAX Emulator" Re: FAST BOOT OF SIMH VAX Emulator GET YOUR FREE TRIP) How to save and restore HSx configuration P Re: interesting take on Olsen's "no reason for any individual tohave a computer P Re: interesting take on Olsen's "no reason for any individual tohave a computer P Re: interesting take on Olsen's "no reason for any individual tohave a computer P Re: interesting take on Olsen's "no reason for any individual tohave a computer P Re: interesting take on Olsen's "no reason for any individual tohave a computer P Re: interesting take on Olsen's "no reason for any individual tohave acomputer iP Re: interesting take on Olsen's "no reason for any individual tohave acomputer iP Re: interesting take on Olsen's "no reason for any individual tohave acomputer iP Re: interesting take on Olsen's "no reason for any individual tohave acomputer i Re: My home page6 Re: Need current Rdb customers for trade press article Re: NFS Problem with AIX OpenVMS 8.2 on Integrity Survey  Re: OpenVMS Support Chart ?  Re: OT: Joke of the week Re: OT: Joke of the week Re: OT: Joke of the week Re: OT: Joke of the week/ Re: Print Tray Definitions with HP 4101 Printer * Re: Programatically accessing HELP/MESSAGE1 Re: reporter inquiry: Is HP selling AlphaServers? 1 Re: reporter inquiry: Is HP selling AlphaServers? 1 Re: reporter inquiry: Is HP selling AlphaServers?  SMS - Your earlier CMS problems D Re: The Register: AMD's Opteron loses ground where it kind of counts- Re: VAX Server 4000/200 not seeing it's drive 
 Re: VMS V1
 Re: VMS V1M What can I do about "Asynchronous Device Attention" errors on network cards ? P Re: What can I do about "Asynchronous Device Attention" errors on network cards P Re: What can I do about "Asynchronous Device Attention" errors on network cards D Re: Yet another [Un]Zip behavior quirk.  Non-stupid opinions sought.D Re: Yet another [Un]Zip behavior quirk.  Non-stupid opinions sought.D Re: Yet another [Un]Zip behavior quirk.  Non-stupid opinions sought.  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 24 NOV 2004 09:30:56 GMT4 From: karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher)E Subject: Re: Any reason why MSL5026S2 wouldn't want to show me tapes? 6 Message-ID: <24NOV04.09305602@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu>  D Can you get to the web management interface? Default pwd is "2". TheH default front panel maint pwd is "5566". If neither of these work you'reH going to have to reset them. How to do that that might be in the serviceA manual and will probably require using the console terminal port.   ? If you can get to the web interface click on the picture of the F library, go to "History" and display the "Library non-vol trace" file.B Look for the section that start with ***** LIBRARY AREA ***** and  compare to this:   ***** LIBRARY AREA ***** Configuration: Stand-Alone Mode: Random Sequential Mode: Stop  Drive Unload Mode: Implicit " Model Id: Compaq MSL5000 (Tag = 1) Total Reserved Slots: 1  Boot Tape Reserved Slots: 0  Label Size: 8 digits Label Alignment: Left  Label Check Digit: No Check  Auto Clean Mode: Enabled Clean Warning Threshold: 0 Element Numbering: Zero-Based  Mail Slot Mode: (Both) Enabled Display Contrast: 14 Power-Up Mode: On-Line Barcode Retries: Enabled Thunder Vertical Axis: Default   --G -- Carl Karcher, Waisman Computing Services, Waisman Center, UW-Madison 9 --                  karcher.nomoresp5m@waisman.wisc.edu      ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 16:09:13 GMT ( From: Mark Schafer <mark.schafer@hp.com>$ Subject: Re: Any VMS bloggers at HP?2 Message-ID: <Jm2pd.3456$kx3.2812@news.cpqcorp.net>   John Smith wrote: + > http://devresource.hp.com/blogs/index.jsp  >  > ' maybe, but I doubt any are in the SGBU.    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Nov 2004 08:28:51 -06004 From: kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow)+ Subject: Re: DEC retail stores in the 1980s 3 Message-ID: <ZFYBsEkiQWur@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <d0e744c9.0411231910.3ddb521@posting.google.com>, leeroth@my-deja.com (Lee Roth) writes: , > Speaking of retail... in the pre-PC era... > 7 > Anyone remember the DEC retail stores? A few of these 9 > stores appeared about the time that the "Super Trio" of 5 > systems all appeared in the same form-factor boxes:  > 4 >  The Rainbow (8088/Z80) - http://tinyurl.com/6hc4f< >  The Professional (PDP11-based) - http://tinyurl.com/4ftfn? >  DECmate II (PDP8-on-a-chip based) - http://tinyurl.com/6eksz  > ? > I think all of the stores folded up within a year of opening- ? > how many stores were there (at max) and what cities were they  > in?  > ; > As I recall the stores only wanted to deal with the above = > 3 systems and supporting accessories - if you tried to walk * > in and buy a VT100 they turned you away.  I There was at least one here in the Chicago area, In Schaumburg IIRC. It's E been long enough that I don't remember what they did or did not sell.   1 	Bob Kaplow	NAR # 18L	TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" & 		>>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<<K Kaplow Klips & Baffle:	http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf L     www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/    www.nira-rocketry.org    www.nar.org  N ... One nation under survielence, divisive, with liberty and justice for none.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 09:30:43 -0500 3 From: Steve Lionel <Steve.Lionel@REMOVEintelME.com> + Subject: Re: DEC retail stores in the 1980s 8 Message-ID: <em69q0ll5495p8vaahpkbaciiu07lfgje9@4ax.com>  D On 23 Nov 2004 19:10:34 -0800, leeroth@my-deja.com (Lee Roth) wrote:  > >I think all of the stores folded up within a year of opening-> >how many stores were there (at max) and what cities were they >in?  J One was in Manchester, NH.  I never ran across another, but I am sure they existed.   Steve    ------------------------------  ! Date: Wed, 24 Nov 04 13:59:22 GMT  From: jmfbahciv@aol.com + Subject: Re: DEC retail stores in the 1980s , Message-ID: <8_ednfkuruJQBjncRVn-qg@rcn.net>  3 In article <ZFYBsEkiQWur@eisner.encompasserve.org>, 8    kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow) wrote:> >In article <d0e744c9.0411231910.3ddb521@posting.google.com>, & leeroth@my-deja.com (Lee Roth) writes:- >> Speaking of retail... in the pre-PC era...  >>  8 >> Anyone remember the DEC retail stores? A few of these: >> stores appeared about the time that the "Super Trio" of6 >> systems all appeared in the same form-factor boxes: >>  5 >>  The Rainbow (8088/Z80) - http://tinyurl.com/6hc4f = >>  The Professional (PDP11-based) - http://tinyurl.com/4ftfn @ >>  DECmate II (PDP8-on-a-chip based) - http://tinyurl.com/6eksz >>  @ >> I think all of the stores folded up within a year of opening-@ >> how many stores were there (at max) and what cities were they >> in? >>  < >> As I recall the stores only wanted to deal with the above> >> 3 systems and supporting accessories - if you tried to walk+ >> in and buy a VT100 they turned you away.  > J >There was at least one here in the Chicago area, In Schaumburg IIRC. It'sF >been long enough that I don't remember what they did or did not sell.  B There's a huge difference between a retail store opening up in the< States and one opening up in a foreign market.  For one they> were under completely different managements who didn't talk to= each other daily.  There were years where they didn't talk to  each other yearly.   /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 15:27:33 GMT * From: Paul Anderson <paul.anderson@hp.com>+ Subject: Re: DEC retail stores in the 1980s 5 Message-ID: <241120041026255046%paul.anderson@hp.com>   E In article <em69q0ll5495p8vaahpkbaciiu07lfgje9@4ax.com>, Steve Lionel ' <Steve.Lionel@REMOVEintelME.com> wrote:   F > On 23 Nov 2004 19:10:34 -0800, leeroth@my-deja.com (Lee Roth) wrote: > D > >I think all of the stores folded up within a year of opening- how@ > >many stores were there (at max) and what cities were they in? > G > One was in Manchester, NH.  I never ran across another, but I am sure  > they existed.   , There was one in Burlington MA on Mall Road.   Paul   --    Paul Anderson   OpenVMS Engineering    Hewlett-Packard Company    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 16:40:43 GMT ) From: Alfred Falk <falk@arc.REMOVE.ab.ca> + Subject: Re: DEC retail stores in the 1980s 8 Message-ID: <Xns95AB6274C763falkarcabca@198.161.157.145>  0 JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in% news:41A4062D.FB1277CA@teksavvy.com:     > Lee Roth wrote: 8 >> Anyone remember the DEC retail stores? A few of these: >> stores appeared about the time that the "Super Trio" of6 >> systems all appeared in the same form-factor boxes: > D > In canada, there was a chain of stores called "DataTerminal Mart". > ? > Bought a canadian VT52 clone (Cybernex terminal) and a 300bps H > accoustic coupler modem from them in 1981. They had an actual store inH > a downtown shopping mall. They also had a PDP11-in-a-VT-100 product onD > display (but was too expsnive for me as a student entering uni :-) > E > Later, that stored moved to industrial park offices selling only to % > commercial acocunts and disapeared.   I DTM was quite successful for about a decade.  As their name implied they  H sold mainly terminals, modems and accessories.  Personal computers were A not a yet an important factor in the business.  Their market was  F commericial/industrial end users.  I (as a small contract programming 9 firm) bought stuff from them, as did my present employer. I I still remember one of their print ads.  It showed a couple of salesman  H making a presentation with diagrams of socks.  "If you bought socks the G way you buy computer equipment, they'd cost $200 a pair."  In time the  ? same reasoning would be applied to all computer gear, not just  
 terminals.   H > Meanwhile, the few stores that carried Commodore Pet and Apple II grewD > into chains here (such as Compucentre) and many still exist today.A > There was one shop that "rented" software for the day. When the D > government decided that this was just too obvious a crime (copyingA > software), they were shut down by the RCMP, but re-emerged as a E > bona-fide computer store and is now part of a chain 20 years later.    --  @ ----------------------------------------------------------------A   A L B E R T A         Alfred Falk               falk@arc.ab.ca  @ R E S E A R C H         Information Systems Dept   (780)450-5185+   C O U N C I L         250 Karl Clark Road 1                         Edmonton, Alberta, Canada  http://www.arc.ab.ca/   T6N 1E4   http://www.arc.ab.ca/staff/falk/   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 17:08:38 GMT % From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> + Subject: Re: DEC retail stores in the 1980s > Message-ID: <qe3pd.30203$5b1.15651@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com>  2 "Lee Roth" <leeroth@my-deja.com> wrote in message 6 news:d0e744c9.0411231910.3ddb521@posting.google.com..., > Speaking of retail... in the pre-PC era... > 7 > Anyone remember the DEC retail stores? A few of these 9 > stores appeared about the time that the "Super Trio" of 5 > systems all appeared in the same form-factor boxes:  > 3 > The Rainbow (8088/Z80) - http://tinyurl.com/6hc4f ; > The Professional (PDP11-based) - http://tinyurl.com/4ftfn > > DECmate II (PDP8-on-a-chip based) - http://tinyurl.com/6eksz > ? > I think all of the stores folded up within a year of opening- ? > how many stores were there (at max) and what cities were they  > in?  > ; > As I recall the stores only wanted to deal with the above = > 3 systems and supporting accessories - if you tried to walk * > in and buy a VT100 they turned you away.  > There was one in Columbus, Ohio that was open long before the L Rainbow/Pro/DECMate II were released.  I remember going in there to look at & PDP-11  and PDP-8 (DECmate I) systems.  M I heard a story (I don't know if it's true), that Dan Bricklin went into one  M of these stores to see about buying a computer.  He didn't like something (I  F don't know what) so he left and bought an Apple II and wrote VisiCalc.      ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 11:24:22 GMT 2 From: "William Hymen" <t18_pilot@hotmail.spam.com># Subject: Excursion for Windows 2000 < Message-ID: <Gb_od.39$Ua.3@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>   I was running Excursion from my ; "Digital pathworks 7.0a" CD on Windows NT, and I am loosing 4 the NT box.  The old excursion will not reinstall on Windows 2k.   7 Where do I find the upgrade? How much will pathworks 32  for Windows 2000 cost?   Thanks in advance.   Bill   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Nov 2004 08:36:14 -0600+ From: wb8tyw@qsl.network (John E. Malmberg) ' Subject: Re: Excursion for Windows 2000 3 Message-ID: <SxgpR61tMerg@eisner.encompasserve.org>   < In article <Gb_od.39$Ua.3@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>,5 	"William Hymen" <t18_pilot@hotmail.spam.com> writes: ! > I was running Excursion from my = > "Digital pathworks 7.0a" CD on Windows NT, and I am loosing 6 > the NT box.  The old excursion will not reinstall on
 > Windows 2k.  > 9 > Where do I find the upgrade? How much will pathworks 32  > for Windows 2000 cost?  N You previously asked this question on November 21st, and I posted an answer to it then.  & http://h71000.www7.hp.com/pathworks32/  5 http://h71000.www7.hp.com/pathworks32/latestinfo.html   3 > How much will pathworks 32 for Windows 2000 cost?   3 http://h71000.www7.hp.com/pathworks32/ordering.html   J Which has the wrong links for the software catalog for the U.S.  I did not check the European link.  @ For U.S. use: http://h71000.www7.hp.com/swcat/us/pathwrks32.html   -John  wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only    ------------------------------   Date: 24 NOV 2004 09:41:56 GMT4 From: karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher)' Subject: Re: Excursion for Windows 2000 6 Message-ID: <24NOV04.09415656@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu>  - In a previous article, "William Hymen" wrote: ! ->I was running Excursion from my = ->"Digital pathworks 7.0a" CD on Windows NT, and I am loosing 6 ->the NT box.  The old excursion will not reinstall on
 ->Windows 2k.  ->  9 ->Where do I find the upgrade? How much will pathworks 32  ->for Windows 2000 cost?  F You don't need to upgrade (assuming it won't be used on the NT box andG the following doesn't violate the license agreement). If you still have H access to the NT box, xcopy the xcursion installation directory tree andH just run the  exe's as needed from the x86 directory. No install needed.H This works for me on an XP (moved the xcursion directory tree from a W950 system) so it will very likely work for you too.   --G -- Carl Karcher, Waisman Computing Services, Waisman Center, UW-Madison 6 --               karcher.nomoresp8m@waisman.wisc.edu     ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 05:40:17 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> C Subject: Re: Extending DCL [was: Re: DCL suggestion for f$verify()] ( Message-ID: <opshy1lfrnzgicya@hyrrokkin>  6 On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 21:42:07 -0600, David J Dachtera  " <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote:  + > (Snipped and re-oredered a bit (sorry)...  >  > Tom Linden wrote:  >>J >> On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 16:51:50 -0500, Mike B. <omni@foolie.omniphile.com>	 >> wrote:  >>K >> > On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 19:09:21 -0500, David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>  >> > wrote:  >> >J >> >> I'm not one to ever say that things can't be improved.  However, for >> >> what I useK >> >> DCL for, there aren't many deficiencies.  I'd be interested is seeing  >> >> what couldH >> >> be better.  Then again, I didn't really understand the GUI when it >> >> first appeared.  >> >K >> > I'd like to see a way to return values from called subroutines without G >> > having to use global variables.  Perhaps make any symbol used as a A >> > parameter a shared scope variable that you can change in the B >> > subroutine and have it retain the new value after the return? >> >I >> > As for lack of CASE statements, the GOTO works just fine if you make  >> > up your labels right: >> > >> > $ I = 3 >> > $ GOTO CASE_'I' >> > $!  >> > $ CASE_1: >> >A >> > $ GOTO CASE_END   ! equivalent to 'break'...use it or don't.  >> > $!  >>I >> The correct way to do this, which also reads much better is to use the - >> SELECT syntax, which IIRC is also in REXX,  >>P >> http://www.kednos.com/pli/docs/REFERENCE_MANUAL/6291pro_022.html#index_x_1071 >> > G > Had an idea, but I'm too burned out right now to figure out how to do  > it.  > J > Basically, SELECT is a symbol which, when invoked, results in the stringH > CASE being edited to contain an appropriate IF statement stub. Thusly,$ > if CASE := IF MY_VBL .EQS. , then: > > > $ SELECT MY_VBL		! Edits the string CASE to include "MY_VBL" > $! > $ CASE "A" THEN GOSUB a_label  > $! > $ CASE "B" THEN GOSUB b_label  > $!
 > $! END CASE  > ( > So, SELECT could even be a CALL as in: >  > $ SELECT := CALL EDIT_CASE > C > ...and the $EDIT_CASE: SUBROUTINE accepts the input symbol as P1, J > determines whether its a string or a number, and provides either ".EQS." > or .EQ., as appropriate. > H > A bit of a stretch, and not an exact match to a 3GL's capability; but,J > if you really, REALLY, *REALLY* want SELECT ... CASE, then that might be > one approach.   F Not what I meant (that's why included the link for definition of the   syntax)   	 SELECT(i)  WHEN(2)  WHEN(10)	 OTHERWISE          >        --  C Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Nov 2004 08:18:56 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) C Subject: Re: Extending DCL [was: Re: DCL suggestion for f$verify()] 3 Message-ID: <Vfs9K1OG$Tvp@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <41A3C3A4.7C471011@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: >  > Use the DOS model for TSRs.  > G > Crteate a small app (.exe) which is executed and which "installs" the % > homegrown lexical for your process.   <     I assume you mean use the DOS model for installing TSRs.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 16:50:42 GMT % From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> C Subject: Re: Extending DCL [was: Re: DCL suggestion for f$verify()] > Message-ID: <CZ2pd.30187$5b1.27029@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com>  7 "Mike B." <omni@foolie.omniphile.com> wrote in message  2 news:l4d7q0h6n50mipr8a66m90jgs0itcf994v@4ax.com...C > On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 16:28:45 GMT, "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>  > wrote: > J >>"Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote in message/ >>news:YOsppH214McM@eisner.encompasserve.org... E >>> In article <eVNmd.167$iU3.154@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com>, "John   >>> Vottero" >>> <John@mvpsi.com> writes: >>>>& >>>> $ filelist = DIR/MODI/SINCE=TODAY >>> : >>>   Ugh.  Man, you're getting to much like eunichs here. >>> G >>>   Looping over f$search and f$file_attributes will do this for you.  >> >>Ok, but how about: >> >>$ filelist = SEARCH *.C XYZ  >>F >>The point is, if commands return objects instead of text, you can do >>interesting things.  > 0 > Only if you know what the objects look like...  J The object knows what it looks like and it's willing to tell you and your H editor.   Any decent editor should be able to find out what methods and E properties the filelist object has and pop up a list of them for you.    > G > Your search thing can be done in DCL now...you search/output=foo.bar, F > then open foo.bar and read it.  Takes a bit more code than your way,# > but no shared object definitions.   M Then you pray that the output of SEARCH isn't changed in the next release of  I VMS and the VMS developers fret about improving SEARCH because they know  H that if they change the output, they'll probably break a lot of scripts.  M >                                                         If you really want   > to play withB > objects, skip DCL and write in an object oriented language, like > Simula... ;-)  >    But I don't WANT to skip DCL!    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Nov 2004 04:25:26 -0800& From: "Galen" <gspamtackett@yahoo.com>+ Subject: Re: FAST BOOT OF SIMH VAX Emulator C Message-ID: <1101299126.559293.148660@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   	 JF wrote:   G > This has interesting possibilities if you can run an X application on  the VAX A > and use the MAC OS X's X server as target for the app's window.   G I haven't tried it myself but it should work. You'd need either to have D a separate NIC for the emulated VAX to us, or else figure out how toA use TUN/TAP to tunnel either Ethernet or TCP/IP from VMS to OS X.    Galen    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 12:49:36 +0000 - From: David B Sneddon <dbsneddon@bigpond.com> + Subject: Re: FAST BOOT OF SIMH VAX Emulator * Message-ID: <41A48360.3080904@bigpond.com>   Galen was overheard to say:  > JF wrote:  >  > G >>This has interesting possibilities if you can run an X application on  > 	 > the VAX  > A >>and use the MAC OS X's X server as target for the app's window.  >  > I > I haven't tried it myself but it should work. You'd need either to have F > a separate NIC for the emulated VAX to us, or else figure out how toC > use TUN/TAP to tunnel either Ethernet or TCP/IP from VMS to OS X.  >  > Galen   > I believe there is still a problem with the MAC writing to the> NIC.  It seems to read stuff OK -- I can run a sniffer and see? traffic but cannot make any outgoing connections e.g. I can see < LAT packets but cannot connect to a LAT service from the VAX running under SIMH.    Regards, Dave.  --  D David B Sneddon (dbs)  VMS Systems Programmer  dbsneddon@bigpond.comD Sneddo's quick guide ...     http://www.users.bigpond.com/dbsneddon/D DBS freeware     http://www.users.bigpond.com/dbsneddon/software.htm   ------------------------------  ! Date: Wed, 24 Nov 04 08:28:17 GMT - From: hengre386@yahoo.com(GET YOUR FREE TRIP)  Subject: GET YOUR FREE TRIP = Message-ID: <04112408281726468@newshost.allthenewsgroups.com>    TRIPS TO DESNEY  TRIPS TO HAWAII  ALL FREE   http://travelexpert2004.us   http://travelexpert2004.biz    http://gotraveling85.us    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Nov 2004 10:18:05 -06004 From: kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow)2 Subject: How to save and restore HSx configuration3 Message-ID: <H2qX1Zo6nh0V@eisner.encompasserve.org>   K Is there any way to save an HSx configuration somewhere, then later be able 2 to restore it so that it's back to the way it was?  L I need to reconfigure a controller on my D/R system to test with a differentH disk RAID configuration, but then want to be able to put everything back% EXACTLY the way it was when I'm done.    If it matters, it's an HSZ50.     1 	Bob Kaplow	NAR # 18L	TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" & 		>>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<<K Kaplow Klips & Baffle:	http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf L     www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/    www.nira-rocketry.org    www.nar.org  H Vulcans believe peace should not depend on force. -- Amanda, "Journey to Babel," stardate 3842.3    ------------------------------  ! Date: Wed, 24 Nov 04 11:49:47 GMT  From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Y Subject: Re: interesting take on Olsen's "no reason for any individual tohave a computer  , Message-ID: <QIqdnYH7HMPz4DncRVn-2Q@rcn.net>  , In article <pYmdnTvdAtXeJT7cRVn-tA@igs.net>,'    "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote:  >Bob Koehler wrote: < >> In article <7-mdnYrFm6bN2D7cRVn-tg@igs.net>, "John Smith" >> <a@nonymous.com> writes:  >>C >>> 1) Early on in DEC's PC game they were partnered with Olivetti, 2 >>> mostly as a way to get them into the business. >>E >>    Early?  I don't recall DEC partnering with Olivetti until after ? >>    they went on their own, then tried partnering with Tandy.  >  > ' >Perhaps I have the timeframe mixed up.   @ There was a business deal with Olivetti in ~1988.  This was done> because the manager in DEC who arranged it was Italian and hadB friends in Olivetti.  It didn't do much and I didn't hear anythingE about the work after this manager went to work for another company.   = It might have been DEC's first attempt at outsourcing coding.    /BAH    ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.    ------------------------------  ! Date: Wed, 24 Nov 04 11:55:27 GMT  From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Y Subject: Re: interesting take on Olsen's "no reason for any individual tohave a computer  , Message-ID: <QIqdnYD7HMNf4zncRVn-2Q@rcn.net>  , In article <7-mdnYrFm6bN2D7cRVn-tg@igs.net>,'    "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote:  >jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:  >>= >> It did not.  WTF are you talking about?  When DEC "sold" a ; >> PC, it was not selling its own products.  It was selling @ >> somebody else's manufactured output.  Alphas were never, ever? >> in the retail market.  You could not walk into a CompUSA and 9 >> buy an Alpha off the shelf with all software installed % >> and maintenance on an as is basis.  >  > K >1) Early on in DEC's PC game they were partnered with Olivetti, mostly as   a # >way to get them into the business.   D I don't recall any talk about PCs with the Olivetti deal.  Now thereC may have been another deal but I would think the main players would  have talked about it.  > J >2) Later on DEC was a significant manufacturer of PC's in its own right.  JFH >is correct about the DEC plant in Kanata, Ontario - if memory serves meK >correccly, it was producing the lion's share of DEC's PC products ans well . >as the sole source for several Alpha systems.  * This could not have been in the early 80s. > H >3) As to Alpha not being on the shelf at Sears and CompUSA, neither wasJ >Proliant or HP's equivalent x86 boxes - which were ostensiby competitors  to >some Alpha's running NT.   D NT was tied up in knots because of the deal made with Gates.  PalmerB did that deal.  Since Palmer did it the year could never have beenA before 1987.  1987 was the last time I worked and Olsen was still F CEO.  When Palmer got hired, the quality of software and documentationD that was DEC's reputation got dismissed as an "Olsen thing" and thus should be destroyed.   /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 13:54:08 GMT 5 From: ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net (Ben Myers) Y Subject: Re: interesting take on Olsen's "no reason for any individual tohave a computer  . Message-ID: <41a490c2.648226@nntp.charter.net>  P For a period of time during the late 486 and early Pentium era (late Epicene eraO in computer terms?), DEC had an OEM deal with Olivetti to build low-end desktop P Celebris and Venturis boxes.  The cases were beige and stylish looking, but madeK of cheap sheet metal and a pain in the ass to work on.  I recently saw some K Olivetti brand computers in a scrap pile.  They looked identical to the DEC O units.  These mechanical monstrosities prove the adage that people who design a P computer chassis should have to work in field service for 90 days, repairing theF messes they created, then put back to work to design the next cycle ofL equipment.  Odds are designers would learn from their mistakes for a change.  O The Italian who worked for DEC somewhere in that time frame is Enrico Pesatori, N who is still bouncing around the computer biz as pres of Penguin Computing, an& assembler of Linux boxes... Ben Myers.  8 On Wed, 24 Nov 04 11:55:27 GMT, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:  - >In article <7-mdnYrFm6bN2D7cRVn-tg@igs.net>, ( >   "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote: >>jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: >>> > >>> It did not.  WTF are you talking about?  When DEC "sold" a< >>> PC, it was not selling its own products.  It was sellingA >>> somebody else's manufactured output.  Alphas were never, ever @ >>> in the retail market.  You could not walk into a CompUSA and: >>> buy an Alpha off the shelf with all software installed& >>> and maintenance on an as is basis. >> >>L >>1) Early on in DEC's PC game they were partnered with Olivetti, mostly as  >a$ >>way to get them into the business. > E >I don't recall any talk about PCs with the Olivetti deal.  Now there D >may have been another deal but I would think the main players would >have talked about it. >>K >>2) Later on DEC was a significant manufacturer of PC's in its own right.   >JF I >>is correct about the DEC plant in Kanata, Ontario - if memory serves me L >>correccly, it was producing the lion's share of DEC's PC products ans well/ >>as the sole source for several Alpha systems.  > + >This could not have been in the early 80s.  >>I >>3) As to Alpha not being on the shelf at Sears and CompUSA, neither was K >>Proliant or HP's equivalent x86 boxes - which were ostensiby competitors   >to  >>some Alpha's running NT. > E >NT was tied up in knots because of the deal made with Gates.  Palmer C >did that deal.  Since Palmer did it the year could never have been B >before 1987.  1987 was the last time I worked and Olsen was stillG >CEO.  When Palmer got hired, the quality of software and documentation E >that was DEC's reputation got dismissed as an "Olsen thing" and thus  >should be destroyed.  >  >/BAH  > ( >Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 10:24:28 -0500 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> Y Subject: Re: interesting take on Olsen's "no reason for any individual tohave a computer  , Message-ID: <2pednUzPKaoyOjncRVn-ow@igs.net>   jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:. > In article <7-mdnYrFm6bN2D7cRVn-tg@igs.net>,) >    "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote:  >> jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:  >>> > >>> It did not.  WTF are you talking about?  When DEC "sold" a< >>> PC, it was not selling its own products.  It was sellingA >>> somebody else's manufactured output.  Alphas were never, ever @ >>> in the retail market.  You could not walk into a CompUSA and: >>> buy an Alpha off the shelf with all software installed& >>> and maintenance on an as is basis. >> >>B >> 1) Early on in DEC's PC game they were partnered with Olivetti,1 >> mostly as a way to get them into the business.  > F > I don't recall any talk about PCs with the Olivetti deal.  Now thereE > may have been another deal but I would think the main players would  > have talked about it.   L I recollect Ovlivetti-made PC's sold under Digital label in the late '80's -( I actually had occasion to rip one open.    D >> 2) Later on DEC was a significant manufacturer of PC's in its ownC >> right. JF is correct about the DEC plant in Kanata, Ontario - if C >> memory serves me correccly, it was producing the lion's share of B >> DEC's PC products ans well as the sole source for several Alpha >> systems.  > , > This could not have been in the early 80s.  F Certainly in the early 90's this was the case. Compaq closed the plantL because they wanted to centralize manufacturing in Texas or wherever. It mayH have made economic sense to keep the Canadian plant open given the lowerH Canadian dollar at the time for wages. Parts imported for re-export in a( manufactured product were duty/tax free.    F >> 3) As to Alpha not being on the shelf at Sears and CompUSA, neitherC >> was Proliant or HP's equivalent x86 boxes - which were ostensiby * >> competitors to some Alpha's running NT. > F > NT was tied up in knots because of the deal made with Gates.  PalmerD > did that deal.  Since Palmer did it the year could never have beenC > before 1987.  1987 was the last time I worked and Olsen was still H > CEO.  When Palmer got hired, the quality of software and documentationF > that was DEC's reputation got dismissed as an "Olsen thing" and thus > should be destroyed.  I NT Affinity - never could figure out just why that deal was ever done the  way it was.    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Nov 2004 10:49:15 -06004 From: kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow)Y Subject: Re: interesting take on Olsen's "no reason for any individual tohave a computer  3 Message-ID: <iOOP5WXuxe3+@eisner.encompasserve.org>   F In article <QIqdnYD7HMNf4zncRVn-2Q@rcn.net>, jmfbahciv@aol.com writes:F > NT was tied up in knots because of the deal made with Gates.  PalmerD > did that deal.  Since Palmer did it the year could never have beenC > before 1987.  1987 was the last time I worked and Olsen was stilloH > CEO.  When Palmer got hired, the quality of software and documentationF > that was DEC's reputation got dismissed as an "Olsen thing" and thus > should be destroyed.  I Palmer didn't take over until after I was downsized in late 1991. PerhapsF some time in 1992.  . I don't even think NT was around in the 80s...  1 	Bob Kaplow	NAR # 18L	TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" & 		>>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<<K Kaplow Klips & Baffle:	http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdfsL     www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/    www.nira-rocketry.org    www.nar.org  H Vulcans believe peace should not depend on force. -- Amanda, "Journey to Babel," stardate 3842.3v   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 14:28:22 +0000 (UTC)v From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.ukY Subject: Re: interesting take on Olsen's "no reason for any individual tohave acomputer i ) Message-ID: <co25q6$88s$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>a  F In article <8_edncIuruJnCDncRVn-qg@rcn.net>, jmfbahciv@aol.com writes:- >In article <41A34237.55FA3814@teksavvy.com>,a2 >   JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote: >>jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:J >>> HUH!!!!  Stay within the decade.  We were talking about the beginnings >>> of the PC market.I >>K >>DEC started to shift to resellers paradigm in the 1980s. I fact, by 1986, " >>calling dec to ask to buy a vax  >eC >This happened because DEC was going out of the VAX business.  It's B >exactly how DEC treated people who wanted to buy PDP-10s in 1979.  ' Going out of the Vax business in 1986 ?e' Alpha wasn't released until about 1991.s    
 David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University e   >r1 >> ..would yield an automatic "why don't you calleM >>hamilton avnet (or whatever the big regional reseller-du-jour was) and one   >had' >>to insist to talk to a dec sales rep.A >>K >>However, you also forget that initially, IBM aimed its PCs at businesses   >too.r >uE >That's because IBM's strategy was distributed processing [excuse theAB >swear].  DEC didn't think that was a good approach mostly becauseA >of the unmaintainability of hard/software.  If you want examplesn2 >of the mess, look at the Billyboy-installed base. >h > 6 >>It did allow the PC to become retail as a side dish. >sD >It was not the core business; although, by that time, DEC had eatenD >all of their seed corn and had shot themselves in the balls to make" >sure they couldn't make any more. >: >> ..market progressed from G >>there, and Compaq came in and pulled the rug from under IBM for many i	 >reasons.d > H >Fine.  Why is staying out of the PC biz and concentrating on deliveringE >computing services to business, educational, and government entities C >a bad decision?  A bad decision was to try to be all things to alliB >peoples at all times.  DEC should have stayed with their business >plan. >u >>: >>> Certainly DEC fucked itself but not because it ignored> >>> PC business.  They weren't retail.  PCs are purely retail. >>K >>Not initially. And there was no reason for DEC not to build PCs and make o >them " >>available through "the channel". >oA >There were lots of reasons not to get into that business.  ThereM9 >are still lots of reasons not to get into that business.e >v >> >>? >>> This is an example of what DEC's business model was.  If itl? >>> was going to continue having the reputation of quality, anda= >>> thoroughly tested _systems_, it could not get into the PC 
 >>> business.e >>F >>True. But IBM managed quite well to spurt out PCs while keeping its  >enterprise % >>business quite "quality" oriented. - >rB >Do a comparison of between IBM's financial business structure andC >DEC's.  IBM could afford to experiment with this type of business.- >-- >> ..And look today at HP which is a consumer:6 >>goods business with an enterprise sideline business. >c? ><cough>  I see a floundering fish who is dependent on the cashn: >flow produced by selling expendibles.  I suggest you take@ >a look at how they deal with a quality product of theirs, which9 >they killed off, that people are still mourning.  HP-35.2 >>; >>> >In fact, under Palmer, DEC had a thriving PC business.K >>> > >>> It did not.  WTF are you talking about?  When DEC "sold" a, >>> PC, it was not selling its own products. >>H >>Humm, wonder what they were all building then in Kanata (Canada), and  >wonderrD >>about those DEC ads on TV (yes!) about its canadian made personal 
 >computersM >>and laptops. And they were becoming quite succesful, visible in shops that p >had >>IBM AS400s for instance. >>K >>You can't expect to become a big contender inside of 2 or 3 quarters. DEClH >>shoudl have stayed in for a couple more years before admitting defeat. >DC >If this was after Olsen, DEC was not going to stay in any business  >at all. >t
 >> ... TheI >>real reason DEC gave up on PCs is due to musical chairs game involving n >Pessatori.  >> >>> Alphas were never, everc >>> in the retail market.t >>L >>This isn't because DEC couldn't. It is because DEC decided it didn't want  >to. >nA >Now try to remember why it didn't want to.  There were practicalr >reasons not to go retail. >m> >>It decided that its Alpha would not compete against its PCs  >d? >Gawd, you have PCitis.  It is a special form of small computerT@ >thinking.  An Alpha was designed to run thousands of user jobs,@ >and not be used as a stand alone machine.  Sheesh.  Do you also6 >insist that a jet engine be in with every lawn mower? >  >w >> ...and as a result,2 >>prevented Alphas from competing against wintel.  >e@ >That's not the reason that prevented Alphas from competing withB >billyboy.  Palmer and billyboy signed a contract that created the> >thingie called NT.  The terms were that billyboy would supply: >all the software funding.  It was clear that he would get@ >DEC workers going and then pull the rug at an appropriate time.> >No funding, DECcie programmers don't get paid.  Now they have- >to find another job within DEC or elsewhere.s >r >h  >> ..(and the few low end alphas! >>that were built were crippled).u > 0 >It takes time to find and fix hardware aspects. >> >>D >>> Palmer's priority job was to strip the company of all cash, sellI >>> all profitable sectors and isolate the help desk part in prepartationB% >>> for the corporate sale to Compaq.E >>L >>That was for the last 3 years (1996 to 1999). Prior to that, he was just aH >>headless chicken running around, moving people left and right and not  >knowing >>what to do.  >tE >NO HE WASN'T!!!!  You just didn't notice what was going on.  I don'ty >think anybody did except me.r > 2 >> ..And the mild PC success was around that time. >t >/BAHe >r( >Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.   ------------------------------  ! Date: Wed, 24 Nov 04 14:02:39 GMT. From: jmfbahciv@aol.comsY Subject: Re: interesting take on Olsen's "no reason for any individual tohave acomputer it, Message-ID: <8_ednfguruIPATncRVn-qg@rcn.net>  I In article <co25q6$88s$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>, david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:rG >In article <8_edncIuruJnCDncRVn-qg@rcn.net>, jmfbahciv@aol.com writes:o. >>In article <41A34237.55FA3814@teksavvy.com>,3 >>   JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:k >>>jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:tK >>>> HUH!!!!  Stay within the decade.  We were talking about the beginningsh >>>> of the PC market. >>>gG >>>DEC started to shift to resellers paradigm in the 1980s. I fact, by   1986,f# >>>calling dec to ask to buy a vax g >>D >>This happened because DEC was going out of the VAX business.  It'sC >>exactly how DEC treated people who wanted to buy PDP-10s in 1979.o >r( >Going out of the Vax business in 1986 ?   Yes.  ( >Alpha wasn't released until about 1991.   So?  a  7 Jupiter wasn't cancelled until 1983; PDP-10 sales were a getting denied in 1979.7     <snip>   /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.R   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 16:25:40 +0000 (UTC)@ From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.ukY Subject: Re: interesting take on Olsen's "no reason for any individual tohave acomputer i ) Message-ID: <co2cm4$am0$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>h  F In article <8_ednfguruIPATncRVn-qg@rcn.net>, jmfbahciv@aol.com writes:J >In article <co25q6$88s$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>, david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:H >>In article <8_edncIuruJnCDncRVn-qg@rcn.net>, jmfbahciv@aol.com writes:/ >>>In article <41A34237.55FA3814@teksavvy.com>,r4 >>>   JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote: >>>>jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:L >>>>> HUH!!!!  Stay within the decade.  We were talking about the beginnings >>>>> of the PC market.: >>>>H >>>>DEC started to shift to resellers paradigm in the 1980s. I fact, by  >1986,$ >>>>calling dec to ask to buy a vax  >>>aE >>>This happened because DEC was going out of the VAX business.  It'srD >>>exactly how DEC treated people who wanted to buy PDP-10s in 1979. >>) >>Going out of the Vax business in 1986 ?  >t >Yes.> >o) >>Alpha wasn't released until about 1991.  >o >So?   >s8 >Jupiter wasn't cancelled until 1983; PDP-10 sales were  >getting denied in 1979. >  >r  . However Vax and VMS was already there in 1979.3 As I recall VAX/VMS was riding pretty high in 1986.   M In my personal experience we were still dealing directly with Digital in 1989oK when I joined Middlesex University it wasn't until maybe 92/93 that we weretC forced to go through resellers (and then that was for both VAX and t Alpha systems).t    
 David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ><snip>r >  >/BAH  > ( >Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.   ------------------------------  ! Date: Wed, 24 Nov 04 13:34:32 GMT. From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Y Subject: Re: interesting take on Olsen's "no reason for any individual tohave acomputer il, Message-ID: <8_edncIuruJnCDncRVn-qg@rcn.net>  , In article <41A34237.55FA3814@teksavvy.com>,1    JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:  >jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: I >> HUH!!!!  Stay within the decade.  We were talking about the beginningso >> of the PC market. >pJ >DEC started to shift to resellers paradigm in the 1980s. I fact, by 1986,! >calling dec to ask to buy a vax    B This happened because DEC was going out of the VAX business.  It'sA exactly how DEC treated people who wanted to buy PDP-10s in 1979.n  0 > ..would yield an automatic "why don't you callL >hamilton avnet (or whatever the big regional reseller-du-jour was) and one  hads& >to insist to talk to a dec sales rep. >aJ >However, you also forget that initially, IBM aimed its PCs at businesses  too.  D That's because IBM's strategy was distributed processing [excuse theA swear].  DEC didn't think that was a good approach mostly because @ of the unmaintainability of hard/software.  If you want examples1 of the mess, look at the Billyboy-installed base.     5 >It did allow the PC to become retail as a side dish.   C It was not the core business; although, by that time, DEC had eaten C all of their seed corn and had shot themselves in the balls to make ! sure they couldn't make any more.    > ..market progressed fromF >there, and Compaq came in and pulled the rug from under IBM for many  reasons.  G Fine.  Why is staying out of the PC biz and concentrating on deliveringwD computing services to business, educational, and government entitiesB a bad decision?  A bad decision was to try to be all things to allA peoples at all times.  DEC should have stayed with their business  plan.e   > 9 >> Certainly DEC fucked itself but not because it ignoredr= >> PC business.  They weren't retail.  PCs are purely retail.. >/J >Not initially. And there was no reason for DEC not to build PCs and make  them! >available through "the channel".n  @ There were lots of reasons not to get into that business.  There8 are still lots of reasons not to get into that business.   >t >t> >> This is an example of what DEC's business model was.  If it> >> was going to continue having the reputation of quality, and< >> thoroughly tested _systems_, it could not get into the PC >> business. >aE >True. But IBM managed quite well to spurt out PCs while keeping its M
 enterprise$ >business quite "quality" oriented.   A Do a comparison of between IBM's financial business structure and B DEC's.  IBM could afford to experiment with this type of business.  , > ..And look today at HP which is a consumer5 >goods business with an enterprise sideline business.   > <cough>  I see a floundering fish who is dependent on the cash9 flow produced by selling expendibles.  I suggest you takem? a look at how they deal with a quality product of theirs, whichn8 they killed off, that people are still mourning.  HP-35. >.: >> >In fact, under Palmer, DEC had a thriving PC business. >> p= >> It did not.  WTF are you talking about?  When DEC "sold" a + >> PC, it was not selling its own products.d > G >Humm, wonder what they were all building then in Kanata (Canada), and d wonderC >about those DEC ads on TV (yes!) about its canadian made personal -	 computers4L >and laptops. And they were becoming quite succesful, visible in shops that  had: >IBM AS400s for instance.  >eJ >You can't expect to become a big contender inside of 2 or 3 quarters. DECG >shoudl have stayed in for a couple more years before admitting defeat.i  B If this was after Olsen, DEC was not going to stay in any business at all.7  	 > ... ThenH >real reason DEC gave up on PCs is due to musical chairs game involving 
 Pessatori. >d >> Alphas were never, ever >> in the retail market. >lK >This isn't because DEC couldn't. It is because DEC decided it didn't want n to.o  @ Now try to remember why it didn't want to.  There were practical reasons not to go retail.t  = >It decided that its Alpha would not compete against its PCs h  > Gawd, you have PCitis.  It is a special form of small computer? thinking.  An Alpha was designed to run thousands of user jobs, ? and not be used as a stand alone machine.  Sheesh.  Do you alsol5 insist that a jet engine be in with every lawn mower?s     > ...and as a result, 1 >prevented Alphas from competing against wintel. -  ? That's not the reason that prevented Alphas from competing withaA billyboy.  Palmer and billyboy signed a contract that created then= thingie called NT.  The terms were that billyboy would supplyn9 all the software funding.  It was clear that he would get ? DEC workers going and then pull the rug at an appropriate time.C= No funding, DECcie programmers don't get paid.  Now they haver, to find another job within DEC or elsewhere.     > ..(and the few low end alphasw  >that were built were crippled).  / It takes time to find and fix hardware aspects.m >  >wC >> Palmer's priority job was to strip the company of all cash, selleH >> all profitable sectors and isolate the help desk part in prepartation$ >> for the corporate sale to Compaq. >rK >That was for the last 3 years (1996 to 1999). Prior to that, he was just asG >headless chicken running around, moving people left and right and not o knowingv
 >what to do.    D NO HE WASN'T!!!!  You just didn't notice what was going on.  I don't think anybody did except me.  1 > ..And the mild PC success was around that time.-   /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.4   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Nov 2004 23:58:21 -0800% From: Bart.Zorn@xs4all.nl (Bart Zorn)o Subject: Re: My home page < Message-ID: <a98cd882.0411232358.3f6fa59@posting.google.com>  C I just tried, and http://www.openvms.digital.com still redirects top the usual OpenVMS homepage.r   Must have been a glitcho  	 Bart ZornO    k jordan@ccs4vms.com (Rich Jordan) wrote in message news:<cc5619f2.0411231014.4273b7ba@posting.google.com>...1> > for a very long time has been http://www.openvms.digital.com > H > No need to change it, since it redirected, and it was a nice nostalgic > thing to keep around.> > E > Today, while www.digital.com still resolves and redirects, it looks G > like my home page URL is no more... www.openvms.digital.com no longerd > resolves.  > E > One line in a configuration file somewhere... guess it was just tooe > much trouble to keep.  >  > Sigh.  Now I'm depressed.a >  > Rich   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 11:04:07 GMTb# From: "Phil" <dooleys@snowy.net.au>s? Subject: Re: Need current Rdb customers for trade press article>< Message-ID: <HUZod.47036$K7.9514@news-server.bigpond.net.au>  A "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@NOSPAM.spyderbyte.com> wrote in message$6 news:KfTod.6572$Fs1.711434@twister.southeast.rr.com...H > If you're running Rdb and you're willing to be interviewed for a trade presscI > article please let me know, kfarmer(at)openvms.org.  Interveiws need toC# > happen preferably before holiday. ; The Swedish company OM have been Rdb bigots for a long timep8 http://www.iseoptions.com/technology/exchange_system.asp or% http://www.omxgroup.com/en/index.aspxo may be a good place to start Phil   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Nov 2004 23:46:10 -0800" From: udo.kaul@merck.de (Udo Kaul)! Subject: Re: NFS Problem with AIX < Message-ID: <302d60f2.0411232346.4675b74@posting.google.com>   We use v2 and v3 .2 Does v2 means udp transport and v3 tcp transport ?? And if so, can I change the usage of the versions with setting   tcp_thread =0 ?d  5 Our AIX-Group didn't use any switch for mounting the   nfs-device.t   best regards Udo   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 14:16:37 GMT 6 From: "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@NOSPAM.spyderbyte.com>( Subject: OpenVMS 8.2 on Integrity Survey: Message-ID: <9J0pd.626$Mu3.49470@twister.southeast.rr.com>  L OpenVMS marketing is looking for companies running OpenVMS 8.2 on Integrity C in a production or near production environment for Success Stories.f  , Survey shouldn't take much time to complete.  , http://www.openvms.org/pages.php?page=Survey     Keno   OpenVMS.orgl% _____________________________________- Kenneth R. Farmer <><-% SpyderByte: http://www.SpyderByte.com0   ------------------------------   Date: 24 Nov 2004 17:19:43 GMT From: healyzh@aracnet.com:$ Subject: Re: OpenVMS Support Chart ?, Message-ID: <co2frf01vsu@enews2.newsguy.com>  + warren sander <warren.sander@hp.com> wrote:y8 > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/hw_supportchart.html  J This is a very cool chart, and something I've been looking for, for a longG time.  However, I noticed one interesting item.  For the VAX-11/780, it G lists V1.5 as the minimum version.  If that were true, what did V1 run - on :^)   		Zane   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Nov 2004 09:26:16 -06004 From: kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow)! Subject: Re: OT: Joke of the weeks3 Message-ID: <SEs9xsdQCimu@eisner.encompasserve.org>.  b In article <slrncq4a8s.11j.thierry@MARS.Family>, Thierry Dussuet <thierry@dussuet.lugs.ch> writes:N > He has created a separate department, the sole work of which is to deal withP > his spam problem...  Surely they could click away these 40k mails away for him > :-)s  K I'm sure his real email isn't bill.gates@microsoft.com so the obvious never6D even gets there. More likely it's something like richbastard@aol.com  1 	Bob Kaplow	NAR # 18L	TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"I& 		>>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<<K Kaplow Klips & Baffle:	http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf L     www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/    www.nira-rocketry.org    www.nar.org  H Vulcans believe peace should not depend on force. -- Amanda, "Journey to Babel," stardate 3842.3    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Nov 2004 09:28:56 -06004 From: kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow)! Subject: Re: OT: Joke of the weekt3 Message-ID: <euMuj$y9Z7ps@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  \ In article <41A2AD84.8498DD1D@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > Larry Kilgallen wrote:; >> >    Alas, VMS is no better than most on receiving spam.. >> nA >> It is much better than the leading vendor at not executing it.b > P > TCPIP services isn't *THAT* Bad. It does have DNS based (both backtranslatable > and RBL) support.n > P > There is a huge difference between VMS and Windows: VMS can't filter viri, butN > viri don't affect it. Windows has some filtration of viri, but otherwise has3 > no immunity to viri and catches them very easily.a  I There is some sort of virus filter running here on eisner. I keep gettingg: notifications that it's removed something nasty from spam.  1 	Bob Kaplow	NAR # 18L	TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"N& 		>>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<<K Kaplow Klips & Baffle:	http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf-L     www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/    www.nira-rocketry.org    www.nar.org  H Vulcans believe peace should not depend on force. -- Amanda, "Journey to Babel," stardate 3842.3    ------------------------------   Date: 24 Nov 2004 15:49:17 GMT/ From: Thierry Dussuet <thierry@dussuet.lugs.ch>o! Subject: Re: OT: Joke of the weeka/ Message-ID: <slrncq9bbu.ol.thierry@MARS.Family>/  D On 2004-11-24, Bob Kaplow <kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.TRABoD> wrote:d > In article <slrncq4a8s.11j.thierry@MARS.Family>, Thierry Dussuet <thierry@dussuet.lugs.ch> writes:O >> He has created a separate department, the sole work of which is to deal withAQ >> his spam problem...  Surely they could click away these 40k mails away for him> >> :-) >tM > I'm sure his real email isn't bill.gates@microsoft.com so the obvious never F > even gets there. More likely it's something like richbastard@aol.com  O He surely has some private one, but the official one should be something in the ? form bgates@microsoft.com from what the newspapers say here :-)o   Thierry/   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 16:18:26 GMT ! From: Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com>m! Subject: Re: OT: Joke of the week 8 Message-ID: <fvc9q0tfgs66qeqritunsop28u1ocd4jd9@4ax.com>  M On 24 Nov 2004 15:49:17 GMT, Thierry Dussuet <thierry@dussuet.lugs.ch> wrote:   E >On 2004-11-24, Bob Kaplow <kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.TRABoD> wrote:ae >> In article <slrncq4a8s.11j.thierry@MARS.Family>, Thierry Dussuet <thierry@dussuet.lugs.ch> writes:kP >>> He has created a separate department, the sole work of which is to deal withR >>> his spam problem...  Surely they could click away these 40k mails away for him >>> :-)  >>N >> I'm sure his real email isn't bill.gates@microsoft.com so the obvious neverG >> even gets there. More likely it's something like richbastard@aol.comc > P >He surely has some private one, but the official one should be something in the@ >form bgates@microsoft.com from what the newspapers say here :-) >- >Thierry  E I seem to recall that I read somewhere that it is billg@microsoft.comr   -- Nigel Barker Live from the sunny Cote d'Azurr   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 15:32:54 GMTo* From: Paul Anderson <paul.anderson@hp.com>8 Subject: Re: Print Tray Definitions with HP 4101 Printer5 Message-ID: <241120041031464296%paul.anderson@hp.com>g  C In article <exPod.3429$rZ2.2924@news.cpqcorp.net>, John E. Malmbergo* <Malmberg@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq.hp> wrote:  D > What it appears that you need to do is set the paper tray with theB > security paper as a special type.  Select either "Preprinted" orE > "Letterhead", as long as it is different from the default of Plain.h  F Yes, setting the media type for the tray with the special paper is theA way to do this.  If you're using DCPS for printing, note that the F soon-to-be-released DCPS V2.4 allows selection of paper by media type.   Paul   -- .  Paul Anderson   OpenVMS Engineering    Hewlett-Packard Company4   ------------------------------   Date: 24 Nov 2004 07:03:09 GMT2 From: "Dave Weatherall" <djw-nothere@nospam.nohow>3 Subject: Re: Programatically accessing HELP/MESSAGE ? Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-XHW81w2hEY1i@dave2_os2.home.ours>n  + On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 08:31:03 UTC, JF Mezei I% <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:e   > Dave Weatherall wrote:H > > Ah ! With it now. I assume you want to do some kind of user-friendly* > > problem explanation within  a program. >  > Yes !t > L > There is documented callable interface to normal help (LBR$OUTPUT_HELP forO > instance), but the HELP/MESSAGE was aded well after this, and doesn't use the H > library format, but there is a share image which seems to provide some > callable interface.i  B That answers the question I'd posed myself after I'd hit the Send ? button. 'Can't you do it with  LBR$*HELP* ?'. I use it in some nE utilities to provide on-line/context help. I see now why it can't be a$ used for error message explanations.   -- t Cheers - Dave W.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 12:07:20 -0500-( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>: Subject: Re: reporter inquiry: Is HP selling AlphaServers?, Message-ID: <41A4BFC8.2060802@tsoft-inc.com>   > John Smith wrote:r >  >>Consider the following:nF >>The last EV7z cpu's have been fabbed and are sitting in a shoebox in >>carly's(tm) closet.oM >>Some current GS customers come along in a few years asking to buy some more  >>cpu's.6 >>carly(tm) sez, "Opening price is $X. What am I bid?"J >>Since there is some demand and only a finite supply, guess what happens? >>K >>Eventually the extra cpu price will be increased to a point that makes no>% >>economic sense to stay with the GS.f    O Gee, you must have observed what happened to the VAX line after production was 'Q discontinued.  Speculation in this manner does nothing to help customers, and is  P only a short term gain for the manufacturer, while losing the confidence of the 6 customers.  Hell of a way to run a company, long term.     Dave   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Roadc Vanderbilt, PA  15486e   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 18:03:38 GMTe3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond) : Subject: Re: reporter inquiry: Is HP selling AlphaServers?1 Message-ID: <_14pd.3467$RD3.545@news.cpqcorp.net>i  - In article <41A4BFC8.2060802@tsoft-inc.com>, r* David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes: >> John Smith wrote: ..K >>>Since there is some demand and only a finite supply, guess what happens?  ..> >Gee, you must have observed what happened to the VAX line ...  F Prices for antiques can go arbitrarily high -- more so if they are in  good/working order.i  C If you happen to have a working Osborn CP/M machine, and one of thesE three people (that number is a guess!) who still [think they] need itl' is buying, you can name your own price.a  E I have some old toy trains at home which are worth today 10-100 times.H the original prices my father and his friends paid for them in the 1920s? and 1930s.  (Some of the prices I see paid [deleted] amaze me!)nF Was Lionel wrong to discontinue them and to move on to newer models?     ===Unrelate===  E Last Saturday, 2004-NOV-20, Noel Barrett Antiques and Auctions, Ltd.,lH sold the first part of the Ward Kimball collection.  Ward was one of theE original Disney animators and a life-long collector of toy trains andtI realted toys.  He died some time ago.  He had a truly amazing collection.      -- kJ       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 13:35:07 -0500l# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>.: Subject: Re: reporter inquiry: Is HP selling AlphaServers?, Message-ID: <ruOdnS1o2oHDSTncRVn-sQ@igs.net>   David Froble wrote:i >> John Smith wrote: >> >>> Consider the following:bH >>> The last EV7z cpu's have been fabbed and are sitting in a shoebox in >>> carly's(tm) closet.nE >>> Some current GS customers come along in a few years asking to buy  >>> some more cpu's.8 >>> carly(tm) sez, "Opening price is $X. What am I bid?"C >>> Since there is some demand and only a finite supply, guess whats >>> happens? >>>oD >>> Eventually the extra cpu price will be increased to a point that0 >>> makes no economic sense to stay with the GS. >  > A > Gee, you must have observed what happened to the VAX line afternG > production was discontinued.  Speculation in this manner does nothinge: > to help customers, and is only a short term gain for theF > manufacturer, while losing the confidence of the customers.  Hell of$ > a way to run a company, long term.    J Kinda like having a 'closed' Unibus to kill the 3rd-party market, which inK turn begat all sorts of other problems? All in the name of short-term gain.h9 In the long-term you wind up not having a company to run.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 20:16:29 +1100o4 From: Paddy O'Brien <paddy.o'brien@transgrid.com.au>( Subject: SMS - Your earlier CMS problems/ Message-ID: <41A4516D.6010403@transgrid.com.au>A   Steven,i  G I have only just got back access to info-vax.  I tried to write to you vD at what seemed a  normal address.  But was bounced after 40 retries.    G Can you contact me privately (my address is valid) so that I can offer GH some CMS/MMS advice that I have used.  If you still want help with your I Decset problems.  I've sort of lost track, so if you mail me (or even on i c.o.v) can you remind me/us.  ? I'm a user of 15 years.  And a colleague and myself wrote some uE interesting .com files that when I get time to do a write-up will be d donated to Hoff (freeware)  $ When does one ever get free time :-(  E Well, I retire next year, so as our company has now gone to the dark mI side, I shall spend my twilight years packaging what I am allowed to for "4 Hoff.  Look for the freeware CD stuff on VMS 9.1 :-)   Regards, Paddy        G ***********************************************************************c  C "This electronic message and any attachments may contain privilegedc> and confidential information intended only for the use of the B addressees named above.  If you are not the intended recipient of C this email, please delete the message and any attachment and advisewB the sender.  You are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, 7 distribution, reproduction of this email is prohibited.o  A If you have received the email in error, please notify TransGrid 1A immediately.  Any views expressed in this email are those of the m= individual sender except where the sender expressly and with eC authority states them to be the views of TransGrid.  TransGrid usese> virus-scanning software but excludes any liability for viruses contained in any attachment.  < Please note the email address for TransGrid personnel is now$ firstname.lastname@transgrid.com.au"  G ***********************************************************************    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 13:12:18 GMTo2 From: "Robert Boers" <Robert.boers@softresint.com>M Subject: Re: The Register: AMD's Opteron loses ground where it kind of countss( Message-ID: <41a488b1@news.deckpoint.ch>   Opteron sales jump 400 percent: ) http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=19859c# Not really disheartening for AMD...    R.  5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messaget7 news:B5idncTs48Of2T7cRVn-pg@metrocastcablevision.com...  >n@ > "Keith Parris" <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message- > news:BBrod.3342$XA1.114@news.cpqcorp.net...w > > From The Register:: > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/11/19/amd_top500_loss/ > >iI > > "as measured by the most recent Top 500 supercomputer list... AMD and ' > > its Opteron processor lost ground.". > > J > > "The number of supercomputer installations using AMD's chips fell fromG > > 34 sites in June of 2004 to 31 sites in November. Meanwhile, Intel,eH > > which barely registered on this list three years ago, moved from 285 > > sites to 318." > >aG > > "high performance computing customers are often ahead of the curve,sI > > picking up gear that will later be used by enterprise customers. WitheB > > that in mind, the lack of interest in Opteron clusters must be > > disheartening for AMD."- >-) > Kind of selective quoting there, Keith:r > L > "Before the letters start rushing in, let's make a couple of things clear.E > First off, Intel has two chips to play with on this list - Xeon andD ItaniumXH > versus Opteron (Athlon is negligible) for AMD. Secondly, Intel has far moreL > resources than AMD to put toward "encouraging" labs and researchers to payL > attention to its products. Intel's willingness to sweeten deals that blockF > the purchase of Opterons has become legendary over the past year. InK > addition, much of the Top500 list is dominated by fairly well-establishednK > high-end processors that have loads of software already prepared for themsL > and large server vendors helping out the cause of their respective chips." >n > - bill >e >p >    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Nov 2004 08:32:28 -0600+ From: wb8tyw@qsl.network (John E. Malmberg)A6 Subject: Re: VAX Server 4000/200 not seeing it's drive3 Message-ID: <Y9u5VLJn4Av2@eisner.encompasserve.org>h  L In article <W%Qod.142$6g1.127@fe07.lga>, "Jim" <turk162@hotmail.net> writes:J > Although I've read through the KA-660 CPU Maintenance Manual and the VAXG > 4000 Operation manual, I still can't figure out why SHOW DEV shows no ' > hard drive on my VAX Server 4000/200.U >vF > It has one Seagate ST4702N drive connected via ribbon to a half-sizeG > controller card residing in the top half of slot 6 (BA215 backplane).$  D That controller card is a third party controller card, and unless itC emulates a Digital controller, will not be visible to the boot rom.>  D > The controller card has very few markings; it has "Assy 210-00031"H > etched along one edge and has a sticker on the ROM chip that bears theG > print "Viking QB A4.4".  The only hardware configurable option on thelB > card is a single row of four jumpers, all of which are "jumped".  6 I would recommend a google search.  You may get lucky.  C The only "Viking" q-bus SCSI card that I have seen required a thirddI party driver to use.  Storage on it was not bootable, and OpenVMS did not E supply a driver for it.  It is sitting at home in my spare parts bin.r  C Note: Some third party SCSI controllers are disk only, and some arey
 tape only.  E > From web searches, I gather that the controller card may need to be)F > configured.  However, attempts to put it into maintenance mode don'tG > appear to do much (see below).  At this point, I haven't been able too: > even determine what type of controller I'm dealing with.  O The maintenance command that you have issued is specific to a KFQSA controller,uM which is a Q-BUS to DSSI controller.  As your VAX Server 4000-200 has a built K in DSSI controller that is more efficient, unless you have more than 7 DSSIb= devices, there is no reason to use the KFQSA if you have one.;  M You are aware that even though a DSSI interconnect looks a lot like SCSI, andsE the connectors on the disks are interchangable, they are electrically.H incompatable and damage will likely result a SCSI device is connected to a DSSI bus or the reverse.  H > I would greatly appreciate any help in identifying the controller cardD > type, getting the drive on-line, or even a lead on where to find a > definitive FAQ/manual.    So far I have found nothing. :-(  J I do recommend that in your google searches that you look for the keywordsO "Hoffman" "qbus" and "serpentine" for information on configuring devices on then q-bus.  H The position of cards in the q-bus is significant, as is identifying the= specific q-bus that is on the machine.  Gaps are not allowed.e  H The VAX Server 4000-200 was sold as an upgrade kit, it does not identify# what q-bus backplane that you have.h  G In configuring the q-bus cards, the settings for many of the cards will>- depend on what other cards are in the system.   I And there is an added and not well documented gotcha for third party disky controllers.  N Most q-bus controllers are bus priority 4.  A large number of third party diskH and tape controllers are bus priority 5.  Bus Priority 5 devices must beK electrically/physically closer to the CPU.  Failure to heed that can resulte in system crashes.  I > I bought this wonderful machine and a hamfest last year and assume thatoJ > the drive works but that the previous owner must have wiped it (it spins% > up and sounds like a drive should).n  ) > Here's a summary of what I know so far:w  
 >>>>show qbusn  3 "Show configuration" would probably be more useful.u   > Scan of Qbus I/O Space> > -20001468 (772150) = A440 RQDX3/KDA50/RRD50/RQC25/KFQSA-DISK > -2000146A (772152) = 0B40 = > -20001940 (774500) = A440 TQK50/TQK70/TU81E/RV20/KFQSA-TAPEh > -20001942 (774502) = 0B40>  > -20001F40 (777500) = 0020 IPCR >o  D It shows a MSCP compatable disk controller and TMSCP compatible tape controller on the q-bus.  H In order to interpret the above, a listing of ALL cards that are plugged6 into the q-bus is needed, and their exact posititions.  C Note that every card or board set has two names associated with it.eO One name is for the option and that covers the specific option.  The other nameoD is a module name.  An option may have multiple modules, or just one.  L Most of the discussions on line will deal with the option name, but when youH look at the cards to identify them, all you may find is the module name.  M As there are still a lot of people using q-bus machines for business or hobbysN use, you should be able to look up both numbers on line to identify the cards.   -Johnb wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Onlyd   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Nov 2004 09:18:56 -06004 From: kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow) Subject: Re: VMS V1a3 Message-ID: <eDJ0RkKs+H5d@eisner.encompasserve.org>G  l In article <d3prp09l6jvrebfmfe1o854608gcu08ooa@4ax.com>, Bob Supnik <bob.supnik@sicortex.nospam.com> writes:C > The SIMH team is attempting to revive VMS V1.  A 780 simulator is F > written and partially debugged, V1 sources have been found, as has a > binary kit for V1.5. >  > What's lacking, notably, are:n > E > - VAX-11/780 floppies for V1, particularly the tape restore utilityo/ > - Installation and operational manuals for V1nG > - Detailed specifications on the LSI-11 console interaction protocol,b' > or the actual firmware for the LSI-11u! > - VAX-11/780 bootstrap ROM codeg > G > If you have any of this material, please let me or Al Kossow know; wed/ > can arrange to have the material transcribed.   L At the VMS 20th anniversary DECUS they had a 780 running whatever version ofE VMS it first shipped with. IT belonged to a DEC F/S engineer, but thet? Dectapes were Andy Goldstein's. He might know where the 780 is.o  K If "by firmware for the LSI-11", I'm pretty sure it was RT-11. At a minimumoH it was in RT-11 format, as I frequently repaired them for our VAX sysadm when they got corrupted.  1 	Bob Kaplow	NAR # 18L	TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"a& 		>>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<<K Kaplow Klips & Baffle:	http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf L     www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/    www.nira-rocketry.org    www.nar.org  H Vulcans believe peace should not depend on force. -- Amanda, "Journey to Babel," stardate 3842.3c   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 17:46:50 +0000 (UTC)27 From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney): Subject: Re: VMS V1 ( Message-ID: <co2hea$57i$2@pcls4.std.com>  6 kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow) writes:  M >At the VMS 20th anniversary DECUS they had a 780 running whatever version ofeF >VMS it first shipped with. IT belonged to a DEC F/S engineer, but the@ >Dectapes were Andy Goldstein's. He might know where the 780 is.  H Unfortunately, it was accidentally scrapped.  It was brought back to theG VMS Engineering lab after DECUS and someone who didn't know what it was G had it sent out for scrap.  One of the engineers here who brought it tog6 life will rant on and on if the subject is brought up.   -- b -Mikex   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Nov 2004 03:51:15 -0800+ From: freestyle_london@yahoo.co.uk (Andrew)wV Subject: What can I do about "Asynchronous Device Attention" errors on network cards ?= Message-ID: <88f6adbc.0411240351.434d424c@posting.google.com>a  	 Dear all,d  A We are recieving several messages a day about recoverable errors.>  $ "Asynchronous Device Attention" EWA0  E We are using Gigabit network cards with failover enabled connected to1 a cisco 6500 switch.  C Both the server and switch are set to AUTO... I'm told that this issF HP's recomendation. On this point if anyone has any other ideas please let me know.  E So do I need to worry about these messages... Do other people who arem* VMS admins here recieve similar messages ?   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Nov 2004 04:20:03 -0800& From: "Galen" <gspamtackett@yahoo.com>Y Subject: Re: What can I do about "Asynchronous Device Attention" errors on network cards sC Message-ID: <1101298803.425252.136420@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>i  C You will probably receive a lot of recommendations that you not use  autosense, and I would agree.   E Instead you'll likely be better off to set both the switch's port andl/ the GigE card to full duplex with flow control.n  C We have Cisco switches and mostly use autosense because our networkwB engineer likes to set things up that way, and haven't had problemsG ourselves. But c.o.v has had a lot of discussion of this issue, and note, using autosense appears to be the consensus.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 13:30:49 -0000 * From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>Y Subject: Re: What can I do about "Asynchronous Device Attention" errors on network cards e2 Message-ID: <co22hv$tg5$1@blackmamba.itd.rl.ac.uk>  1 "Galen" <gspamtackett@yahoo.com> wrote in messaget= news:1101298803.425252.136420@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...n  E > You will probably receive a lot of recommendations that you not useu > autosense, and I would agree.  >vG > Instead you'll likely be better off to set both the switch's port andi1 > the GigE card to full duplex with flow control.2  M I'll pile in to express the contrarian view: I would always try autonegotiatenI first always (not the same thing as autosense, by the way), unless I kneweB my equipment had a problem. Some of the old DE500 cards do I know, and various early switches.i  A Also, the arguments are much weaker for turning autonegotiate off!G for gigabit Ethernet, as autonegotiation is _mandatory_ in the standardhJ i.e. equipment must support it, and if you disable it, you're on your own.  F Hate to bring up the S-word here but I think this document talks a lot9 of sense: http://www.sun.com/blueprints/0704/817-7526.pdfo   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 02:21:03 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>eM Subject: Re: Yet another [Un]Zip behavior quirk.  Non-stupid opinions sought.t, Message-ID: <41A43641.E4357895@teksavvy.com>   sms@antinode.org wrote:yG >    With my changes, files extracted from non-V archives will, for the F > first time, be fully allocated at once, instead of incrementally.  I' > fail to see how this wrecks anything.e  L One caveat. You need to look into cluster size as well. If the original diskN had a cluster size of 100, and the file was 101 blocks, it occupied 200 blocksJ on disk. If you move it to a disk with cluster size of 1, you want to makeU sure you allocate 101 blocks and not 200. (eg: use space used , not space allocated).   M It becomes a bit harder to determine if the owner of the file had intended tonN leave some free space for growth, or if the free space at the end was just the result of cluster size.c   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 08:21:39 -0600g6 From: "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@mac.com.spamfooler>M Subject: Re: Yet another [Un]Zip behavior quirk.  Non-stupid opinions sought.iD Message-ID: <craigberry-21979B.08213924112004@news.isp.giganews.com>  A In article <04112400112152@antinode.org>, sms@antinode.org wrote:e    G >    With my changes, files extracted from non-V archives will, for thebF > first time, be fully allocated at once, instead of incrementally.  I' > fail to see how this wrecks anything.u  H It doesn't, and I'm glad to hear that's what we're talking about.  Your F original post was mostly about how bothersome pre-allocation was when H unzipping -V archives for large files, and since most of the thread has @ been about that case, I thought the discussion had moved toward @ changing that behavior rather than adding it for the non-V case.  I > > The fact that you can't protect from something external whacking the  D > > program doesn't mean you shouldn't preserve the existing modest L > > precautions against exceeding disk quota or filling up the disk.  Maybe L > > the exception handling is good enough that it will delete an incomplete K > > file regardless of the reason for incompleteness, but that's something  I > > worth testing for if you go ahead and give it a couple more possible a > > reasons. > I >    Other than the initial larger allocation causing the error sooner, I 9 > fail to see any difference from the previous behavior. s  I >    To what "existing modest precautions against exceeding disk quota orPJ > filling up the disk" do you refer?  So far as I know, these programs tryJ > to make files and either succeed or fail.  We ain't got no precautions. H > We don't need no precautions.  I don't have to show you any _stinking_ > precautions!  F It's pretty simple.  An unexpected failure that leaves a partial file D on disk is more dangerous than an unexpected failure that leaves no F file at all on disk.  If the exception handling and clean-up code are H good enough, the former case never happens.  It's just simpler and more G robust to get the bad news at file creation time rather than depending dH on clean-up code later on.  But since you're keeping pre-allocation for E the -V case and adding it for the others, you're improving things by  . this measure, and I have no argument with you.   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 08:19:57 -0600 (CST)  From: sms@antinode.orgM Subject: Re: Yet another [Un]Zip behavior quirk.  Non-stupid opinions sought.i) Message-ID: <04112408195721@antinode.org>   - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>   I > >    With my changes, files extracted from non-V archives will, for thesH > > first time, be fully allocated at once, instead of incrementally.  I) > > fail to see how this wrecks anything.i > 9 > One caveat. You need to look into cluster size as well.p      No, I don't.w   >  If the original disk P > had a cluster size of 100, and the file was 101 blocks, it occupied 200 blocksL > on disk. If you move it to a disk with cluster size of 1, you want to makeW > sure you allocate 101 blocks and not 200. (eg: use space used , not space allocated).E  H    With a non-V archive, the size used is derived from the original byteG count.  With a -V[V] archive, the VMS attributes will be used, (more ortH less) as before.  That is, the allocation will be preserved, as it's oneE of those preserved attributes.  If you don't like the results, you'lleH have to go in and truncate the files after they've been extracted.  (TheF OS appears to handle the case where the allocation must be larger, due to a different cluster size.)t  O > It becomes a bit harder to determine if the owner of the file had intended todP > leave some free space for growth, or if the free space at the end was just the > result of cluster size.n  E    Impossible, I'd say, and, as getting -V to work right in the firstiH place triggered such a load of hissy fits and threats to go postal (fromE the ill-informed) in this forum, I'm reluctant to suggest any kind ofs# automatic truncation at extraction.   H    However, as must be obvious by now, the Info-ZIP folks are willing toB take suggestions from anyone.  If you submit better code, I'm sure someone will consider it.e  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode-orgs    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547l   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.653 ************************g to keep around.> > E > Today, while www.digital.com still resolves and redirects, it looks G > like my home page URL is no mo