1 INFO-VAX	Mon, 29 Nov 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 663       Contents:" Re: DEC retail stores in the 1980s" Disco Ball of failed hopes (Intel)& Re: Disco Ball of failed hopes (Intel)& Re: Disco Ball of failed hopes (Intel)4 Re: dtrace's (Solaris 10) equivalent tool on OpenVMS Re: enhancements to VMS MAIL Re: enhancements to VMS MAIL Re: enhancements to VMS MAIL Re: enhancements to VMS MAIL Re: enhancements to VMS MAIL RE: enhancements to VMS MAIL- Re: How to save and restore HSx configuration 4 Re: HSG80 - mirrorsets really slow with NOWRITEBACK?4 Re: HSG80 - mirrorsets really slow with NOWRITEBACK?4 Re: HSG80 - mirrorsets really slow with NOWRITEBACK?, Independent Liquor Group PDF Invoice ProjectP Re: interesting take on Olsen's "no reason for any individual  tohave acomputer P Re: interesting take on Olsen's "no reason for any individual tohave acomputer iP Re: interesting take on Olsen's "no reason for any individual tohave acomputer iP Re: interesting take on Olsen's "no reason for any individual tohave acomputer iP Re: interesting take on Olsen's "no reason for any individual tohave acomputer iP Re: interesting take on Olsen's "no reason for any individual tohave acomputer iP Re: interesting take on Olsen's "no reason for any individual tohave acomputer iP Re: interesting take on Olsen's "no reason for any individual tohave acomputer i UUCP for OpenVMS on Alpha  Re: UUCP for OpenVMS on Alpha  Re: UUCP for OpenVMS on Alpha  [DFG] Aborting DFG Utility8 Re: [OT]: Digital Equipment Corp. and the origin of Spam  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 29 Nov 2004 08:40:30 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) + Subject: Re: DEC retail stores in the 1980s 3 Message-ID: <fwJdL0u8ZOp2@eisner.encompasserve.org>   K In article <874qjeb1qb.fsf@prep.synonet.com>, prep@prep.synonet.com writes: ( > leeroth@my-deja.com (Lee Roth) writes: > d >> JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message news:<41A4062D.FB1277CA@teksavvy.com>...E >>> ... They also had a PDP11-in-a-VT-100 product on display (but was 5 >>> too expsnive for me as a student entering uni :-)  > F >> That would have been the PDT11 series... you can read about them at> >> http://tinyurl.com/66262 and look for the text "1978?" - it5 >> discusses the various flavors that were available.  > A > There was also the LSI-11 with Q-bus in a VT100. VT103 I think.  > = > I always have trouble remebering which is the 102 or 103 :(   E    These were resold under the name Mini-Minc.  Minc had earlier been 1    based on PDP-11.  Came with a ROM based BASIC.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 12:16:59 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> + Subject: Disco Ball of failed hopes (Intel) , Message-ID: <41AB5987.E03A20D6@teksavvy.com>  + Interesting article about Intel on the NYT.   L The title comes from the disco ball that Intel engineers have built for thisN upcoming christmas part, each "mirror" is a chip from Intel's failed video LCDL chips. And the article talks baout various failed projects at Intel, as well% as the new incoming CEO, Mr Ottelini.   J Article also mentions how AMD has stolen the limelight from Intel, and how5 Dell is now thinking about starting to use AMD chips.   J Ottelini is to present his vision to Wall Stree Casino Analysts this week.. Intel's stock lost 25% of its value this year.  + No specific mention of IA64 in the article.   ( But there is this interesting paragraph:   ##G Mr. Otellini will tell analysts that he plans to focus on four areas of H growth: international markets for desktop personal computers, mobile andL wireless applications, the digital home as well as a new initiative aimed atK large corporate computing markets that Intel is calling the Digital Office.  ##  9 Does the "Digital Office" have anything to do with IA64 ?        One analyst said:   K "The decision to preannounce an unproven technology was an uncharacteristic M one for Intel". Otellini is said to be the one who changed Intel to adopt the  more agressive marketing.    Another interesting paragraph:   ##M <discussion about faster chips>. Instead, the company is now concentrating on N what he calls platforms: complete systems aimed at both computing and consumer electronics markets. ##    J If Intel will stop preannouncing vapourware, it will be interesting to seeL what happens to IA64 marketing. So far, they have always marketed the futureL of IA64 sicne the present has never really been so great.  Right now, one isN expected to be patient until 2007 before IA64 becomes competitive. That is WAYI ahead in the future. What happens if Intel stops bragging about what IA64 ! might be in some distant future ?   N And more importantly, does anyone know the type of involvment Otellini has hadN with IA64 ? Is it his baby ? Was he against it ? When the guy takes over, doesH that increase the chances that Intel will put IA64 out of its misery and< concentrate on the 8086 so it can regain the lead from AMD ?        & I think you can get to the article at:  5 http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/29/technology/29.intel    (registration required).   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 12:42:23 -0500 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> / Subject: Re: Disco Ball of failed hopes (Intel) , Message-ID: <PpmdnfuC3qYdwjbcRVn-1A@igs.net>   JF Mezei wrote: - > Interesting article about Intel on the NYT.  > E > The title comes from the disco ball that Intel engineers have built @ > for this upcoming christmas part, each "mirror" is a chip fromE > Intel's failed video LCD chips. And the article talks baout various ? > failed projects at Intel, as well as the new incoming CEO, Mr  > Ottelini.  > D > Article also mentions how AMD has stolen the limelight from Intel,? > and how Dell is now thinking about starting to use AMD chips.  > F > Ottelini is to present his vision to Wall Stree Casino Analysts this6 > week. Intel's stock lost 25% of its value this year. > - > No specific mention of IA64 in the article.  > * > But there is this interesting paragraph: >  > ##F > Mr. Otellini will tell analysts that he plans to focus on four areasB > of growth: international markets for desktop personal computers,E > mobile and wireless applications, the digital home as well as a new E > initiative aimed at large corporate computing markets that Intel is   > calling the Digital Office. ## > ; > Does the "Digital Office" have anything to do with IA64 ?  >  >  >  > One analyst said:  > < > "The decision to preannounce an unproven technology was anE > uncharacteristic one for Intel". Otellini is said to be the one who 6 > changed Intel to adopt the more agressive marketing. >   > Another interesting paragraph: >  > ##> > <discussion about faster chips>. Instead, the company is nowE > concentrating on what he calls platforms: complete systems aimed at 2 > both computing and consumer electronics markets. > ## >  > E > If Intel will stop preannouncing vapourware, it will be interesting A > to see what happens to IA64 marketing. So far, they have always E > marketed the future of IA64 sicne the present has never really been G > so great.  Right now, one is expected to be patient until 2007 before A > IA64 becomes competitive. That is WAY ahead in the future. What B > happens if Intel stops bragging about what IA64 might be in some > distant future ? > ? > And more importantly, does anyone know the type of involvment C > Otellini has had with IA64 ? Is it his baby ? Was he against it ? D > When the guy takes over, does that increase the chances that IntelG > will put IA64 out of its misery and concentrate on the 8086 so it can  > regain the lead from AMD ? >  >  >  > ( > I think you can get to the article at: > 7 > http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/29/technology/29.intel  >  > (registration required).     From WSJ Page A3, Nov. 17/04= http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB110054042720274296,00.html   C "The biggest change in H-P's performance was the improvement of the H enterprise-computing unit, which makes server and storage computers. TheH group posted a quarterly operating profit of $107 million, reversing itsK third-quarter loss of $208 million. Still, the group's profit declined from + $131 million in the fourth quarter of 2003. J The unit's revenue rose 7%, to $4.1 billion from a year earlier, marking aL 22% increase from the disappointing third quarter. Storage revenue fell, butH revenue increased for most server products. Ms. Fiorina said operationalH glitches in the division, which included a botched installation of a big& software package, are now "behind us."      L If Intel kills Itanic, carly(tm) can kill and write off the Enterprise groupK entirely - its revenues are only 20% of the entire company ($16B annualized L vs. $80B for the entire company). Many other companies have killed divisionsK that represented more than 20% of sales, especially when they don't produce J much profit (it doesn't seem to matter that the lack of profits stems from- incompetent management and not bad products).    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 13:38:08 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> / Subject: Re: Disco Ball of failed hopes (Intel) , Message-ID: <41AB6C86.44E91F11@teksavvy.com>   John Smith wrote: N > If Intel kills Itanic, carly(tm) can kill and write off the Enterprise group< > entirely - its revenues are only 20% of the entire company  / Wintel servers will continue, as will storage.    M The only visible change would be the abandonnement of HP-UX in favour of 8086  based Linux.  3 Tandem would probably move to 8086 or stay on MIPS.   K Like the merger pregnancy period where VMS was purposelly not mentioned, HP M wouldn't say anything about VMS for some time, and when it would, it would be N through some obscure PDF document on HP's web site authored by Scott Stallard.   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Nov 2004 06:07:24 -0800 From: g.bobby@gmx.at (octogen)= Subject: Re: dtrace's (Solaris 10) equivalent tool on OpenVMS = Message-ID: <8c395b6a.0411290607.10e5ff61@posting.google.com>   f "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> wrote in message news:<m-OdnYUr1-z1ZDrcRVn-gA@adelphia.com>... > Sarkunarajah S wrote:  > > hi, J > > Whenever I read a review/or articles on Solaris 10, dtrace never fails* > > to be mentioned as a really cool tool. > > I > > A question to OpenVMS & Solaris experts out there, is there a similar  > > tool available in OpenVMS ?  > F > First many of the readers of this forum would need to know that the  > "dtrace" tool does.   ( "DTrace" is the Dynamic Tracing Facility! Quote from the Sun Documentation: @ "The Solaris DTrace facility is a comprehensive dynamic tracking? facility that gives you a new level of observerability into the C Solaris kernel and user processes. DTrace helps you understand your D system by permitting you to dynamically instrument the OS kernel and> user processes to record data that you specify at locations ofB interest, called, probes. Each probe can be associated with customC programs that are written in the new D programming language. All of E DTrace's instrumentation is entirely dynamic and available for use on  your production system."  = It works similar to tracing system calls, but it is much more  configurable and fine-grained.   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 02:14:33 -0600 (CST)  From: sms@antinode.org% Subject: Re: enhancements to VMS MAIL ) Message-ID: <04112902143316@antinode.org>   P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)  F > A while back, one of the engineers asked here about suggestions for 9 > improving VMS MAIL.  Here are a couple I'd like to see:       Did I miss that?   J > When FORWARDing a message interactively, have the original subject come 6 > up at the prompt (which can be edited if necessary). > I > Increase the size of the recall buffer in MAIL (like was done with DCL) @ > and add a RECALL command analogous to the DCL RECALL command.   ;    Those would be nice.  I'd like some SEARCH improvements:   H    1.  The ability to start a search at the current message, rather than2 always at the first message in the current folder.  E    2.  Fancier targets than just a simple string.  Wildcards, /MATCH, 
 and so on.  @    3.  The ability to interrupt a search (promptly) with CTRL/C.  A    4.  The ability to search multiple folders (with one command).     D    I hate to say it, but when I had a Solaris desktop at work, I gotB along pretty well with dtmail.  It even did attachments without anF external MIME utility.  It may be the missing CDE feature I miss most.  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode-org     Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 08:45:47 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)% Subject: Re: enhancements to VMS MAIL $ Message-ID: <coenjr$pe1$1@online.de>  C In article <04112902143316@antinode.org>, sms@antinode.org writes:    J >    1.  The ability to start a search at the current message, rather than4 > always at the first message in the current folder.  2 Nice, but one can always SELECT from that message.  G >    2.  Fancier targets than just a simple string.  Wildcards, /MATCH,  > and so on. > B >    3.  The ability to interrupt a search (promptly) with CTRL/C. > C >    4.  The ability to search multiple folders (with one command).   , Check out MLSEARCH on Hunter Goatley's site.   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Nov 2004 09:05:44 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) % Subject: Re: enhancements to VMS MAIL 3 Message-ID: <U0e53EwvbHnY@eisner.encompasserve.org>   B In article <04112902143316@antinode.org>, sms@antinode.org writes:R > From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) > G >> A while back, one of the engineers asked here about suggestions for  : >> improving VMS MAIL.  Here are a couple I'd like to see: >  >    Did I miss that?  >   F    I'd like to be able to sort by column (from, title, ...) when using    the DECwindows interface.   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 17:44:18 +0000 (UTC)  From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk% Subject: Re: enhancements to VMS MAIL ) Message-ID: <cofn5i$pll$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>   B In article <04112902143316@antinode.org>, sms@antinode.org writes:Q >From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)  > G >> A while back, one of the engineers asked here about suggestions for  : >> improving VMS MAIL.  Here are a couple I'd like to see: >  >   Did I miss that? > K >> When FORWARDing a message interactively, have the original subject come  7 >> up at the prompt (which can be edited if necessary).  >>  J >> Increase the size of the recall buffer in MAIL (like was done with DCL)A >> and add a RECALL command analogous to the DCL RECALL command.   > < >   Those would be nice.  I'd like some SEARCH improvements: > I >   1.  The ability to start a search at the current message, rather than 3 >always at the first message in the current folder.  > F >   2.  Fancier targets than just a simple string.  Wildcards, /MATCH, >and so on.  > A >   3.  The ability to interrupt a search (promptly) with CTRL/C.  > B >   4.  The ability to search multiple folders (with one command). >  >   
 I'd add :-   1) Proper Mime support  : 2) Folders as sub-directories (and folders within folders)N    The advantages of an indexed mail.mai file are to some extent lost when allK    the messages for all the folders are stored in the same mail directory.       3) Builtin IMAP UID support   ; 4) Builtin hooks for PGP signing/signature validation  and  '    encryption/decryption and for SMIME.          
 David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University      E >   I hate to say it, but when I had a Solaris desktop at work, I got C >along pretty well with dtmail.  It even did attachments without an G >external MIME utility.  It may be the missing CDE feature I miss most.  > I >------------------------------------------------------------------------  > 5 >   Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-9818 4 >   382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode-org >   Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 12:51:55 -0500 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> % Subject: Re: enhancements to VMS MAIL , Message-ID: <kaCdnWLwN7wh_DbcRVn-jw@igs.net>   david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:  > < > 4) Builtin hooks for PGP signing/signature validation  and) >    encryption/decryption and for SMIME.      Ditto.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 12:50:23 -0500 1 From: "Farrell, Michael" <MFarrell@Voltdelta.com> % Subject: RE: enhancements to VMS MAIL @ Message-ID: <37A773ADDA84D711A42700B0D0FC529CCA8AB0@NYEXCHANGE2>  J This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand< this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.  ' ------_=_NextPart_001_01C4D63B.E6BD1082  Content-Type: text/plain;  	charset="iso-8859-1"   G I don't recall this one either, but I'll take the opportunity to make a  request.  L I'd like to be able to be automatically notified by mail account name when a new message has come in.  L I'd like to be able to have a process notified by VMS Mail either through anK event flag or an AST as a possibility that an Email has arrived.  Then, I'd E analyze the Email to see who sent it and respond to it automatically.   I This would be a method by which we would automatically recognize customer % requests for service and other needs.    Mike    -----Original Message----- 2 From: 	sms@antinode.org [mailto:sms@antinode.org] ' Sent:	Monday, November 29, 2004 3:15 AM  To:	Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com % Subject:	Re: enhancements to VMS MAIL   I From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to  reply)  F > A while back, one of the engineers asked here about suggestions for 9 > improving VMS MAIL.  Here are a couple I'd like to see:       Did I miss that?   J > When FORWARDing a message interactively, have the original subject come 6 > up at the prompt (which can be edited if necessary). > I > Increase the size of the recall buffer in MAIL (like was done with DCL) @ > and add a RECALL command analogous to the DCL RECALL command.   ;    Those would be nice.  I'd like some SEARCH improvements:   H    1.  The ability to start a search at the current message, rather than2 always at the first message in the current folder.  E    2.  Fancier targets than just a simple string.  Wildcards, /MATCH, 
 and so on.  @    3.  The ability to interrupt a search (promptly) with CTRL/C.  A    4.  The ability to search multiple folders (with one command).     D    I hate to say it, but when I had a Solaris desktop at work, I gotB along pretty well with dtmail.  It even did attachments without anF external MIME utility.  It may be the missing CDE feature I miss most.  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode-org     Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547   ' ------_=_NextPart_001_01C4D63B.E6BD1082  Content-Type: text/html; 	charset="iso-8859-1" + Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   1 <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">  <HTML> <HEAD>9 <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =  charset=3Diso-8859-1">@ <META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version = 5.5.2658.2">+ <TITLE>RE: enhancements to VMS MAIL</TITLE>  </HEAD>  <BODY>  E <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>I don't recall this one either, but I'll take the = % opportunity to make a request.</FONT>  </P>  G <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>I'd like to be able to be automatically notified by = 8 mail account name when a new message has come in.</FONT> </P>  I <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>I'd like to be able to have a process notified by VMS = F Mail either through an event flag or an AST as a possibility that an =I Email has arrived.&nbsp; Then, I'd analyze the Email to see who sent it = + and respond to it automatically.</FONT></P>   < <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>This would be a method by which we would =A automatically recognize customer requests for service and other = 
 needs.</FONT>  </P>   <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Mike</FONT>  </P>  9 <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&nbsp;-----Original Message-----</FONT> 6 <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>From: &nbsp; sms@antinode.org [<A =E HREF=3D"mailto:sms@antinode.org">mailto:sms@antinode.org</A>] </FONT> E <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Sent:&nbsp;&nbsp; Monday, November 29, 2004 3:15 = 	 AM</FONT> 0 <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>To:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; = Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com</FONT>G <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Subject:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; = # Re: enhancements to VMS MAIL</FONT>  </P>  B <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip =( Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)</FONT> </P>  F <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; A while back, one of the engineers asked here = about suggestions for </FONT> I <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; improving VMS MAIL.&nbsp; Here are a couple I'd =  like to see:</FONT>  </P>  6 <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; Did I miss that?</FONT> </P>  F <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; When FORWARDing a message interactively, have =! the original subject come </FONT> B <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; up at the prompt (which can be edited if = necessary).</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT> H <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Increase the size of the recall buffer in MAIL = (like was done with DCL)</FONT> G <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; and add a RECALL command analogous to the DCL =  RECALL command. </FONT>  </P>  I <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; Those would be nice.&nbsp; I'd like some =  SEARCH improvements:</FONT>  </P>  G <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; 1.&nbsp; The ability to start a search = * at the current message, rather than</FONT>? <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>always at the first message in the current =  folder.</FONT> </P>  E <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; 2.&nbsp; Fancier targets than just a = . simple string.&nbsp; Wildcards, /MATCH,</FONT>$ <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>and so on.</FONT> </P>  D <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; 3.&nbsp; The ability to interrupt a =% search (promptly) with CTRL/C.</FONT>  </P>  H <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; 4.&nbsp; The ability to search multiple =" folders (with one command).</FONT> </P> <BR>  C <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; I hate to say it, but when I had a = % Solaris desktop at work, I got</FONT> E <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>along pretty well with dtmail.&nbsp; It even did =  attachments without an</FONT> G <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>external MIME utility.&nbsp; It may be the missing =  CDE feature I miss most.</FONT>  </P>  
 <P><FONT =I SIZE=3D2>---------------------------------------------------------------=  ---------</FONT> </P>  * <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; Steven M. =I Schweda&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp= , ;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (+1) 651-699-9818</FONT>3 <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; 382 South Warwick = 2 Street&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; = sms@antinode-org</FONT> ; <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; Saint Paul&nbsp; MN&nbsp; =  55105-2547</FONT>  </P>   </BODY>  </HTML> ) ------_=_NextPart_001_01C4D63B.E6BD1082--    ------------------------------    Date: 29 Nov 2004 10:24:28 -06004 From: kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow)6 Subject: Re: How to save and restore HSx configuration3 Message-ID: <$4zV3kCyh0Z6@eisner.encompasserve.org>    In article <Pine.LNX.4.21.0411242219390.25294-100000@irys.stanpol.com.pl>, "Gotfryd Smolik, VMS lists" <gotfryd@stanpol.com.pl> writes: # > On 24 Nov 2004, Bob Kaplow wrote: O >>+I need to reconfigure a controller on my D/R system to test with a different K >>+disk RAID configuration, but then want to be able to put everything back ( >>+EXACTLY the way it was when I'm done. > 6 >  That can be impossible - as long you say EXACTLY :)< >  At least one case I know depends of the firmware revision8 > where was used to create a storageset: AFAIR there was7 > some time official warning that soma written on disks 8 > datastructures were changed including the size of this > datastructures.   D OK, I won't be changing firmware revs underneath. A couple blocks or whatever is close enough.   G My question still stands: is there a way to backup and then restore HSx  configurations?   J How about a script that parses SHOW {THIS, OTHER, DEV, UNIT, STORAGE} FULLI and generates a set of CLI commands to configure the controller as it is?   6 Or something like what TSM does with terminal servers?  1 	Bob Kaplow	NAR # 18L	TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" & 		>>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<<K Kaplow Klips & Baffle:	http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf L     www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/    www.nira-rocketry.org    www.nar.org  @         You [should] not examine legislation in the light of theD         benefits it will convey if properly administered, but in theF         light of the wrongs it would do and the harm it would cause ifF         improperly administered -- Lyndon Johnson, former President of         the U.S.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 15:10:15 GMT 1 From: Keith Parris <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> = Subject: Re: HSG80 - mirrorsets really slow with NOWRITEBACK? 1 Message-ID: <rZGqd.3540$hK7.162@news.cpqcorp.net>    Malcolm Dunnett wrote:1 >  I have a Raid Array 8000, ACS version 8.6F-13.  > = >  I have a number of mirrorsets on this array. I've recently 7 > noticed that if I turn off writeback caching on those / > mirrorsets the performance is truly terrible.   " There are several aspects to this.  G As you know, with a mirrorset, without write-back caching, you have to  B write the data to both spindles in the mirrorset before returning G successful status to the VMS system. The spindles are not synchronized  H rotationally, so the two spindles will typically take different amounts G of time to rotate around to the specified LBN for a given I/O, and you  I aren't done until the last of the two is done. Ken Bates calculated that  E this reprsents a penalty of about 40% in response time compared with  I writing to a single spindle alone. With writeback caching on, successful  G status can be returned to the host as soon as the data lands in cache,  D and then the two transfers over the back-end SCSI busses to the two I mirrorset members can proceed independently afterward (and be overlapped  + with the next data transfer from the host).    > Copying a large < > file to one of the mirrorsets shows a sustained write rate: > of about 14MB/sec with caching on but only about 4MB/sec > with caching on.  G (I assume you meant the data rate is lower with write-back caching OFF  . -- i.e. your 2nd "on" should have been "off".)  I The controller can coalesce writes from write-back cache to the back-end  H drives when write-back caching is on. With write-back caching off, each E back-end transfer has to occur synchronously as a part of each write  G operation. So write-back caching allows the back-end data transfers to  G be streamed in parallel with the front-end data transfers. And it also  D avoids much of the rotational latency of the disk, since it can use H larger I/O sizes on the back-end transfers than the size of I/Os VMS is I sending in, and you suffer the penaly of rotational latency only once at  # the beginning of these larger I/Os.   : >  I'm really suprised by such a large difference. I could? > see the initial writes being much faster ( since they're just B > writing into the cache, not onto the disk ) - but once the cacheB > is filled up ( it's a 256MB cache and a 4GB file I was copying )  I Although your file is 4 GB in size, VMS is probably doing I/Os no larger  D than 64 KB. With write-back caching on, the controller can coalesce ? these smaller writes into larger writes on the back-end busses.   E It's quite possible that with only this single stream of writes, and  E with write-back caching turned on, the controller can actually drain  G those writes to the back-end drives fast enough to the that you aren't  . even getting to the point of filling up cache.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 15:59:08 GMT 1 From: Keith Parris <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> = Subject: Re: HSG80 - mirrorsets really slow with NOWRITEBACK? 1 Message-ID: <gHHqd.3543$ls.1055@news.cpqcorp.net>    Malcolm Dunnett wrote:I >    Writeback cache is the default on HSGs. I know on the HSZ10(?) (Raid G > Array 310 ) NOWRITEBACK was the default ( in fact it would give you a 0 > nasty message any time you enabled WRITEBACK).  I The HSZ70 and earlier controller models didn't have mirrored cache. If a  F cache memory module failed, you effectively lost all the units behind E that controller. That was why you got the nasty warning messages. (I  G lost a cache module on two different occasions with HSJ40s. Thankfully  F the data was all shadowed to another controller pair at another site, C HBVS did the right thing, and the users never knew the difference.)   @ The HSZ80 and all the HSG models have mirrored write-back cache.   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Nov 2004 09:50:15 -07001 From: nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett) = Subject: Re: HSG80 - mirrorsets really slow with NOWRITEBACK? - Message-ID: <fKurNUBRz4t8@malvm7.mala.bc.ca.>   2 In article <rZGqd.3540$hK7.162@news.cpqcorp.net>, 5   Keith Parris <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> writes:    > Malcolm Dunnett wrote:2 >>  I have a Raid Array 8000, ACS version 8.6F-13. >>  > >>  I have a number of mirrorsets on this array. I've recently8 >> noticed that if I turn off writeback caching on those0 >> mirrorsets the performance is truly terrible. > $ > There are several aspects to this. > I > As you know, with a mirrorset, without write-back caching, you have to  D > write the data to both spindles in the mirrorset before returning & > successful status to the VMS system.  E      Did the HSZs return a success status when the data hit the first G disk? I know the documentation implied that write back cache was needed D to support mirrorsets even when writeback caching was disabled - andD if you didn't tell it otherwise it would make mirrorsets inoperativeK when the battery was low. That might explain why the performance difference I between writeback and nowriteback seems to be much smaller with the RA310 ; (though I'm sure the smaller cache makes a difference too).    >> Copying a large= >> file to one of the mirrorsets shows a sustained write rate ; >> of about 14MB/sec with caching on but only about 4MB/sec  >> with caching on.  > I > (I assume you meant the data rate is lower with write-back caching OFF  0 > -- i.e. your 2nd "on" should have been "off".) >      Yes.  F     A followup question: The manual talks about setting the controllerC to UPS=NODE_ONLY if the unit is powered by a UPS connected to a PVA H module. I see the connector on the PVA that the UPS cable would go into,D but I've not seen any documentation on the pinouts of this cable. IsD this available somewhere. Would this work with a "standard" APC UPS?J What happens if I have dual redundant power ( ie 2 UPSs but there's only 1C connector on the PVA? ). If this UPS cable was connected what would K happen, would the unit shut down when the UPS signalled it was running low?    ------------------------------    Date: 29 Nov 2004 05:13:02 -0800) From: mail@sanface.com (SANFACE Software) 5 Subject: Independent Liquor Group PDF Invoice Project = Message-ID: <8c682947.0411290513.65bbea22@posting.google.com>   F Independent Liquor Group (ILG) is a major liquor wholesaler in Sydney.B We sell about 2.5m cases of wine and spirits each year to pubs andE restaurants. We have sophisticated electronic commerce interfaces and E about 80% of our business comes to us on-line. We use OVMS internally & and Win2000S systems for the Internet.  D Although we provide paper invoices with deliveries, and also provideF electronic invoices to our customers, we are still plagued by requestsD for copies of back invoices and credit notes from both customers andD suppliers, sometimes going back six months. We used to provide these by fax or e-mail.   F With the aid of TXT2PDF, we now provide up to six months back invoicesE in PDF format on our Web sites. Customers can search for and download F the PDF version themselves on a 24x7 basis. This is better for both ofC our customers and us, especially since our customers do business at  all hours of the day and night.n  > We already had the Web facilities and the text versions of theD invoices. To automate the production of the PDF invoices on OVMS andD integrate them with our Win2000S Web sites took only two man days...@ the hardest part was the company logo! This project was probablyC easier for us since the same people have developed both systems. We E were able to make our PDF invoices look exactly the same as our paperr invoices. See example below.  E We generate our invoices with software we have developed ourselves ino> house as part of a much larger system. We use a multi-platformC development environment call "Synergy". Synergy evolved from an oldpB Digital (DEC) language called Dibol that was originally on DEC PDPF computers, but the same code will run unmodified on a host of systems,? including OVMS, Windows, Unix and Linux. In fact, the invoicingn? software we use is 25 years old but it still does what we want.a  F I suppose this simple project illustrates how smart, modern tools likeC TXT2PDF can be used to extend the useful life of the legacy systemsiF that are used by many companies in all parts of the world! We now hope7 to eventually phase out of printed invoices completely.V  / Independent Liquor Group http://www.ilg.com.au/ ( SANFACE Software http://www.sanface.com/+ txt2pdf http://www.sanface.com/txt2pdf.html-   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 14:52:20 GMT ; From: Charlie McCutcheon <charlie.mccutcheonspam@nothp.com>pY Subject: Re: interesting take on Olsen's "no reason for any individual  tohave acomputer L) Message-ID: <41AB3703.4EE8A5A7@nothp.com>t  O > The amazing thing looking back is that for five years the 780 was the fastesty > machine that Digital sold.  Q You forget about the PDP-10, the 36 bit architecture running Tops-10 and Tops-20.C  & A KL2060 was faster than a VAX 11/780.   ------------------------------  ! Date: Mon, 29 Nov 04 12:45:18 GMTm From: jmfbahciv@aol.comnY Subject: Re: interesting take on Olsen's "no reason for any individual tohave acomputer i:, Message-ID: <maydnbSQuNq3vzbcRVn-gQ@rcn.net>  8 In article <4i1kq0d7bi54286ceokdlis2aqlv5q3gp5@4ax.com>,%    Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com> wrote:i9 >On Sun, 28 Nov 04 12:40:04 GMT, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:r >l. >>In article <vOCdnSRq0pn7EjvcRVn-rQ@igs.net>,) >>   "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote:  >><snip> >>3 >>>Amongst the lessons in your time is that if you B >>>are a hardware manufacturer7 >>>and you don't do your own software too, you run the  6 >>>risk of being toasted by your erstwhile 'partners'. >>9 >>Exactly.  Another risk is that you can't get a softwaret8 >>bug fixed the way you need it fixed.  One of the basic9 >>reasons that DEC became Digital is because the softwaree7 >>was considered unnecessary for the company's success.r8 >>If the software started leading hardware projects, the# >>hardware projects were cancelled.  >j2 >During the early nineties the New Software Group  >under David Stone    7 I don't think it could have been Stone..not in the 90s.a   > ..made quite anh2 >effort to promote Digital as a software company.  >The company strategy then was- >to increase revenue & profit from software. c  7 If this was true, then the bottom line was that Digitalf5 was going to be turned into yet another Gates' biz of  software distribution.   > ..Here is a  >contemporary magazine  >article describing the strategyE >http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0SMG/is_n1_v11/ai_9786191e  / Bah.  I can't webbit with this machine I have. i   /BAH    ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.    ------------------------------  ! Date: Mon, 29 Nov 04 12:49:39 GMTi From: jmfbahciv@aol.comiY Subject: Re: interesting take on Olsen's "no reason for any individual tohave acomputer i , Message-ID: <maydnbeQuNqyvjbcRVn-gQ@rcn.net>  ( In article <opsh6jvwnazgicya@hyrrokkin>,'    "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote: ; >On Sun, 28 Nov 04 13:04:34 GMT, <jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote:a >rF >> In article <cocjs7$nr0$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>, david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk  wrote:J >>> In article <AtOdnQ0uqpGoUTTcRVn-oA@rcn.net>, jmfbahciv@aol.com writes:I >>>> In article <co54rl$876$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>, david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk  n >>>> wrote:tE >>>>> In article <i8GdnU8Y9aoJQTjcRVn-pw@rcn.net>, jmfbahciv@aol.com e writes: I >>>>>> In article <co2cm4$am0$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>, david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.ukt	 >> wrote:t <snip-looks a mess>e  < >>> By the look of it you are now agreeing with me about the >>> situation in 1986 -b@ >>> that in 1986 Digital were not going out of the Vax business. >>D >> No,no,no.  It was going out of the Vax business.  It wasn't clearG >> that it was trying to get out of the VMS business.  There were hintsv3 >> but those hints could have meant something else.u >>F >That may be the problem, they _thought_ they were in the VAX business5 >and didn't realize that the _real_ business was VMS.c  9 Stop.  You are using the term "vax" as a generic for the e= product line that Digital replace the mainframe product line.-< This is a mistake if you're yakking with a DEC engineer :-).8 VAX was a CPU architecture.  The Alpha replaced the VAX,; just as the KI-10 replaced the KA-10 and the KL-10 replacedF
 the KI-10.     /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.    ------------------------------  ! Date: Mon, 29 Nov 04 13:03:42 GMT  From: jmfbahciv@aol.comiY Subject: Re: interesting take on Olsen's "no reason for any individual tohave acomputer i , Message-ID: <w-mdnW3HpOHnuzbcRVn-rQ@rcn.net>  I In article <cocrp4$q9q$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>, david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:nG >In article <DNqdnaVbg9-_SDTcRVn-og@rcn.net>, jmfbahciv@aol.com writes: K >>In article <cocjs7$nr0$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>, david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:vI >>>In article <AtOdnQ0uqpGoUTTcRVn-oA@rcn.net>, jmfbahciv@aol.com writes: G >>>>In article <co54rl$876$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>, david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk   wrote:K >>>>>In article <i8GdnU8Y9aoJQTjcRVn-pw@rcn.net>, jmfbahciv@aol.com writes:aI >>>>>>In article <co2cm4$am0$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>, david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk e >>wrote:F >>>>>>>In article <8_ednfguruIPATncRVn-qg@rcn.net>, jmfbahciv@aol.com  writes: K >>>>>>>>In article <co25q6$88s$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>, david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk I
 >>>>wrote:H >>>>>>>>>In article <8_edncIuruJnCDncRVn-qg@rcn.net>, jmfbahciv@aol.com 	 >>writes:i6 >>>>>>>>>>In article <41A34237.55FA3814@teksavvy.com>,; >>>>>>>>>>   JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:h# >>>>>>>>>>>jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: I >>>>>>>>>>>> HUH!!!!  Stay within the decade.  We were talking about the k >>>>>>beginnings >>>>>>>>>>>> of the PC market. >>>>>>>>>>>uL >>>>>>>>>>>DEC started to shift to resellers paradigm in the 1980s. I fact,  >>by l
 >>>>>>>>1986,o+ >>>>>>>>>>>calling dec to ask to buy a vax d
 >>>>>>>>>>H >>>>>>>>>>This happened because DEC was going out of the VAX business.   It'sK >>>>>>>>>>exactly how DEC treated people who wanted to buy PDP-10s in 1979.e	 >>>>>>>>>y0 >>>>>>>>>Going out of the Vax business in 1986 ? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Yes. >>>>>>>>0 >>>>>>>>>Alpha wasn't released until about 1991. >>>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>>So?  c >>>>>>>>? >>>>>>>>Jupiter wasn't cancelled until 1983; PDP-10 sales were l >>>>>>>>getting denied in 1979.i >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>u5 >>>>>>>However Vax and VMS was already there in 1979.t >>>>>>E >>>>>>So?  My point was that the policy of denying a sale had alreadynE >>>>>>been established when a replacement architecture was years intotE >>>>>>the future.  And VAX wasn't already "there" in 79.  The companyoG >>>>>>was still doing the 11/780 bit and trying to establish a customer E >>>>>>base for VAXes.  Since the performance sucked, there wasn't anyoD >>>>>>existing customers who bought a VAX when they needed mainframe >>>>>>computing services.. >>>>>>: >>>>>>>As I recall VAX/VMS was riding pretty high in 1986. >>>>>>? >>>>>>Compared to what?  In 1986 I was starting to study how toiA >>>>>>convince current PDP-10 customers to replace their 10s withaD >>>>>>VAXes.  This was after the fiasco of "fuck you" at 1978 DECUS,> >>>>>>the Jupiter disaster, and then the idiocy that marketing9 >>>>>>developed in 1984 and 1985 they called "migration".v >>>>>> >>>>>oL >>>>>1985/1986 was about the time I first worked on a VAX. The company part  >>of r >>>>GEC.E >>>>>had links to IBM mainframe systems at Chelmsford and a Mcdonald   Douglas  >>>>machineiH >>>>>running Pick on site. When they came to look for their next system  then, 	 >>>>sinceaF >>>>>they wanted a mid-range system rather than an IBM mainframe, the  choice t >>of! >>>>>a VMS system seemed obvious.s >>>>D >>>>Of course, and it should have been.  However, by the time of theC >>>>Compaq purchase, it was clear to me that corporate was going totA >>>>treat VMS exactly the same way as they treated TOPS-10.  Justd? >>>>when they got the OS to a useful computing servicer, it hadf >>>>to be destroyed. >>>> >>>e; >>>The Compaq purchase was much much later than the period - >>>we are talking about. >> >>Yes. >>< >>>By the look of it you are now agreeing with me about the  >>>situation in 1986 -? >>>that in 1986 Digital were not going out of the Vax business.n >>C >>No,no,no.  It was going out of the Vax business.  It wasn't clear F >>that it was trying to get out of the VMS business.  There were hints2 >>but those hints could have meant something else. >> >.4 >Sorry I don't equate investigating possible future  >hardware strategies with8? >a policy of denying sales and getting out of the Vax business.   A Sigh!  It was a part of doing business.  You seem to consider VAXo> architecture as separate and different from the Alpha.  It was= not.  The Alpha had the _design goal_ to be a replacement form> all VAXes.  Customers would wait for the new CPU and forestall> buy the old architecture.  That was how business was conducted= in the 70s and 80s.  DEC would talk to special customers and,v= after they signed non-disclosure agreements, would give these6D customers advance specifications of the replacement CPU architecture= so that they could begin to do whatever they had to do beforea9 the new processor started coming off the production line.w  A We had quite a few customers that needed a lead time of 2-4 yearss; so they could have their software ready by the time the newi gear was getting made.    H >You might reasonably make that claim after or even slightly before the  releaset >of Alpha but not in 1986.  @ NO!  Customers needed at least a man-century of development time to accomodate a new CPU model.  I >Similarly on the OS side you might reasonably claim a policy of denying i VMSaG >sales in favour of first Unix and then Microsoft sales but again this e wouldd* >only be supportable some time after 1986.  A Red herring.  We're talking about Digital hard/software business.n= You appear to not know how that business worked.  If you werei: a customer who didn't need a long lead time about the next4 CPU model, then you wouldn't know how things worked. >oI >Unlike Compaq and HP with Itanic I don't see Digital as a company which d; >burned it's bridges to jump to a new untried architecture.s  ? Since the Alpha was designed to replace the VAX, it was neithera= burning bridges nor untried architecture.  Look, DEC had been,: doing this style of business all its life.  We knew how to6 replace old hardware with new hardware.  Please do not; use today's PCitis business model and assume that's how thev! computer biz worked for all time.H   >  <snip>   /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.b   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Nov 2004 08:51:11 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)sY Subject: Re: interesting take on Olsen's "no reason for any individual tohave acomputer i 3 Message-ID: <OEiBal2Cw53N@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ^ In article <ge3cq09e1a7rlspk5a14sh03gp1f8dd4ou@4ax.com>, nospam@nouce.bellatlantic.net writes: > C > Huh??? Performance sucked?  For 1979 there were few machines that > > matched it and fewer that were supermainframes that beat it.  @    SEL 32 (later owned by Gould) ran circles around VAXen, for aI    lower price.  For that lower price you got software that was primitiveo<    (no virtual memory, no shuffler, every utility completelyG    inconsistent with every other, a FORTRAN library that didn't includemG    TAN(), a line editor, no interactive running of programs other than ,!    the editor, no debugger, ...).i  #    VMS sold VAXen, not performance.    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 15:05:19 GMT ! From: Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com>-Y Subject: Re: interesting take on Olsen's "no reason for any individual tohave acomputer i88 Message-ID: <hgdmq0tv973mpi5tqibtm21c7tuaioekkl@4ax.com>  8 On Mon, 29 Nov 04 12:45:18 GMT, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:  9 >In article <4i1kq0d7bi54286ceokdlis2aqlv5q3gp5@4ax.com>,b& >   Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com> wrote:: >>On Sun, 28 Nov 04 12:40:04 GMT, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: >>/ >>>In article <vOCdnSRq0pn7EjvcRVn-rQ@igs.net>,n* >>>   "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote:	 >>><snip>g >>>e4 >>>>Amongst the lessons in your time is that if you  >>>>are a hardware manufacturerl8 >>>>and you don't do your own software too, you run the 7 >>>>risk of being toasted by your erstwhile 'partners'.F >>>r: >>>Exactly.  Another risk is that you can't get a software9 >>>bug fixed the way you need it fixed.  One of the basic(: >>>reasons that DEC became Digital is because the software8 >>>was considered unnecessary for the company's success.9 >>>If the software started leading hardware projects, the-$ >>>hardware projects were cancelled. >>3 >>During the early nineties the New Software Group r >>under David Stone  >e8 >I don't think it could have been Stone..not in the 90s.  K Yes it was. The article I pointed to from 'Software Magazine' was the covere story for January 1991D http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0SMG/is_n1_v11/ai_9786191  P Here is the headline for the article "DEC displays a new commitment to software;O Stone seen fulfilling Olsen's "software company" claim - DEC New Software Group J head David Stone - Open Systems: Achieving Technology Independence - Cover Story"   >> ..made quite an3 >>effort to promote Digital as a software company. 4 >>The company strategy then wasi. >>to increase revenue & profit from software.  >V8 >If this was true, then the bottom line was that Digital6 >was going to be turned into yet another Gates' biz of >software distribution.s  O No. In 1991 the plan was for DEC to produce the software for VMS, Ultrix & alsobO 3rd party OS. This was a couple of years before Windows NT shipped so the majorIO software at that time from Microsoft was DOS 5.0 & Windows 3.1 for desktop PCs.W  D Do take a look at the article that I found. It's a fascinating read.   -- Nigel Barker Live from the sunny Cote d'Azur>   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 15:43:43 GMT # From: nospam@nouce.bellatlantic.netlY Subject: Re: interesting take on Olsen's "no reason for any individual tohave acomputer io8 Message-ID: <8mgmq0p63iqolpc6pk0qkj7gash61hte3a@4ax.com>  F On 29 Nov 2004 08:51:11 -0600, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote:  _ >In article <ge3cq09e1a7rlspk5a14sh03gp1f8dd4ou@4ax.com>, nospam@nouce.bellatlantic.net writes:l >> oD >> Huh??? Performance sucked?  For 1979 there were few machines that? >> matched it and fewer that were supermainframes that beat it.  > A >   SEL 32 (later owned by Gould) ran circles around VAXen, for aeJ >   lower price.  For that lower price you got software that was primitive= >   (no virtual memory, no shuffler, every utility completely H >   inconsistent with every other, a FORTRAN library that didn't includeH >   TAN(), a line editor, no interactive running of programs other than " >   the editor, no debugger, ...). > $ >   VMS sold VAXen, not performance.  ? Indeed true.  Though at the time of introduction the market wasa@ different as compared to five years later.   The DG  machine wasF faster but many felt the OS was not as robust.  Like I said there wereC faster, cheaper, some even better but twenty plus years later their- names are "Who?".-  F What was pointed out by others was the VAX was the migration for thoseD that needed a better PDP-11 and Alpha was the better for those whose( VAX needs were moving to the next level.     Allison-   ------------------------------  ! Date: Mon, 29 Nov 04 15:17:50 GMT< From: jmfbahciv@aol.com:Y Subject: Re: interesting take on Olsen's "no reason for any individual tohave acomputer ih, Message-ID: <9d-dnYn_r4B02DbcRVn-sQ@rcn.net>  8 In article <hgdmq0tv973mpi5tqibtm21c7tuaioekkl@4ax.com>,%    Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com> wrote: 9 >On Mon, 29 Nov 04 12:45:18 GMT, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:: >2: >>In article <4i1kq0d7bi54286ceokdlis2aqlv5q3gp5@4ax.com>,' >>   Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com> wrote: ; >>>On Sun, 28 Nov 04 12:40:04 GMT, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:E >>> 0 >>>>In article <vOCdnSRq0pn7EjvcRVn-rQ@igs.net>,+ >>>>   "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote:r
 >>>><snip> >>>>5 >>>>>Amongst the lessons in your time is that if you B  >>>>>are a hardware manufacturer9 >>>>>and you don't do your own software too, you run the h8 >>>>>risk of being toasted by your erstwhile 'partners'. >>>>; >>>>Exactly.  Another risk is that you can't get a softwarem: >>>>bug fixed the way you need it fixed.  One of the basic; >>>>reasons that DEC became Digital is because the software 9 >>>>was considered unnecessary for the company's success. : >>>>If the software started leading hardware projects, the% >>>>hardware projects were cancelled.  >>>h4 >>>During the early nineties the New Software Group  >>>under David Stone a >>9 >>I don't think it could have been Stone..not in the 90s.  >sG >Yes it was. The article I pointed to from 'Software Magazine' was the   cover  >story for January 1991oE >http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0SMG/is_n1_v11/ai_9786191L  & Then I've got my times all screwed up.   > H >Here is the headline for the article "DEC displays a new commitment to 	 software; K >Stone seen fulfilling Olsen's "software company" claim - DEC New Software t Group K >head David Stone - Open Systems: Achieving Technology Independence - Coverp >Story"r >t >>> ..made quite an 4 >>>effort to promote Digital as a software company.   >>>The company strategy then was/ >>>to increase revenue & profit from software. h >>9 >>If this was true, then the bottom line was that Digitale7 >>was going to be turned into yet another Gates' biz ofe >>software distribution. >rL >No. In 1991 the plan was for DEC to produce the software for VMS, Ultrix &  alsoK >3rd party OS. This was a couple of years before Windows NT shipped so the e majoryL >software at that time from Microsoft was DOS 5.0 & Windows 3.1 for desktop  PCs. > E >Do take a look at the article that I found. It's a fascinating read.   @ It would be because I thought Stone had already died from cancerA by then.  I had also thought that Stone was working for somethingh= in New Jersey.  JMF did attend a seminar that Stone gave just-= before Stone died.  At that seminar he essentially apologizedS= for the Project Notebook and said that the thing was designedr? to prevent products from shipping.  And nobody asked Stone why.-: If I had been in that seminar, Stone and I would have beenD drawing each others' blood with him needing 5 pints of a transfusion* before I would have been through with him.  < I typed up the first version of the Project Notebook so that= was written ~1972.  In 1976, I started a software project and3< had to use the Notebook as a guide on what was required, and@ the steps I was to take to run the project from start to finish.> IMO, it was useless other than giving me the templates for the> specs that would be presented to the higher ups, including the. (what did we call it?) the steering committee.  ; That document eventurally morphed into something called thes Engineering Project Notebook.O   /BAH      ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.i   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Nov 2004 00:04:02 -0800- From: v_englisch@yahoo.de (Volker N Englisch)I" Subject: UUCP for OpenVMS on Alpha= Message-ID: <f79686e9.0411290004.30c551ea@posting.google.com>T   Howdy,  F is there a UUCP port for OpenVMS running on an alpha machine? I read aB lot about DECUS UUCP but even didn't find any source for in in the net.   TIAi Volker   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Nov 2004 09:07:11 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)F& Subject: Re: UUCP for OpenVMS on Alpha3 Message-ID: <+qRRH+LHwtIZ@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  m In article <f79686e9.0411290004.30c551ea@posting.google.com>, v_englisch@yahoo.de (Volker N Englisch) writes:V > Howdy, > H > is there a UUCP port for OpenVMS running on an alpha machine? I read aD > lot about DECUS UUCP but even didn't find any source for in in the > net.  ;    Yep.  Look around for "VAXnet", that's one of the ports.L   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 08:35:10 -0800 , From: Alan <Usenet02_REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com>& Subject: Re: UUCP for OpenVMS on Alpha. Message-ID: <41AB4FBE.1050202@Flying-Disk.com>   Volker N Englisch wrote:  H > is there a UUCP port for OpenVMS running on an alpha machine? I read aD > lot about DECUS UUCP but even didn't find any source for in in the > net.  A To the best of my knowledge, DECUS UUCP was never ported from VAX B to Alpha.   I started to do it, but found that some of the stuff IC didn't understand was tightly tied to the VAX stack structure.   AtiE that point, I ran out of time and interest.   I kept my VAXstation-II D running until a few months ago just to support UUCP, but when my ISP5 changed hands they broke UUCP and declined to fix it.    Alan Frisbie   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 09:56:37 +0000 (UTC);6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)# Subject: [DFG] Aborting DFG UtilityF1 Message-ID: <newscache$9kpx7i$0gk1$1@news.sil.at>r  K Aborting the DFO/DFG Utility (not the detached process doing the defragging M as specified in the script) via Control-C (or Control-Y) has 2 disadvantages.N  L 1 (minor) is doesn't restore the (previously turned off) cursor and you must= turn it on again (eg. via Reset Terminal in DECterm) by hand.T  K 2 (major) if you reenter the defragger utility, it can no longer be abortedpH and is stuck (you need to kill the process/job). Seems the image rundownC has similar problems like the freeware FIND utility (on Alpha) has.t  L Using DFG on a daily basis (per script) but rarely by hand (to monitor, showL or modify scripts) I'm not able to tell for sure how long this error exists.    . Did you perhaps noticed this behaviour/error ?4 Did you tell VMS engineering (via support channel) ? Will it be fixed with V2.9 ?   TIA-   -- - Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER-% Network and OpenVMS system specialists E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Nov 2004 08:56:39 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler);A Subject: Re: [OT]: Digital Equipment Corp. and the origin of Spam&3 Message-ID: <X$uW+Fr9dPv6@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <41A76985.96BD5283@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > Beach Runner wrote:NE >> For what most people think of the internet, Gore did invent it. Hep6 >> provided funding for Mosaic, the first web browser. > , > Did Mosaic really get started after 1992 ?  B    Gore's contribution was passing bills while he was in Congress,    before 1992."   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.663 ************************