1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 01 Oct 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 544       Contents: Re: *.CDD file for CONNX Re: *.CDD file for CONNX Re: *.CDD file for CONNX AlphaStation 200 4/233 Re: AlphaStation 200 4/233= An article well worth using as ammunition AGAINST leaving VMS  Re: As seen in WSJ Re: As seen in WSJ Re: As seen in WSJ4 DSN/WIS Retirement -> ITRC "Natural Language Search"8 Re: DSN/WIS Retirement -> ITRC "Natural Language Search"8 Re: DSN/WIS Retirement -> ITRC "Natural Language Search", Re: HP admits discontinued IA64 workstations, Re: HP admits discontinued IA64 workstations, Re: HP admits discontinued IA64 workstations, Re: HP admits discontinued IA64 workstations, Re: HP admits discontinued IA64 workstations> Re: Interbase on VMS (was Re: "Oracle RDB" licensing question)> Re: Interbase on VMS (was Re: "Oracle RDB" licensing question)> Re: Interbase on VMS (was Re: "Oracle RDB" licensing question)> Re: Interbase on VMS (was Re: "Oracle RDB" licensing question) MOVING VAX CLUSTER Re: MOVING VAX CLUSTER Re: MOVING VAX CLUSTER Re: MOVING VAX CLUSTER MS to lose its patent on FAT# Re: SHOW DEVICE/FILES with FORTRAN? # Re: SHOW DEVICE/FILES with FORTRAN? # Re: SHOW DEVICE/FILES with FORTRAN? # Re: SHOW DEVICE/FILES with FORTRAN? # Re: SHOW DEVICE/FILES with FORTRAN? # Re: SHOW DEVICE/FILES with FORTRAN? # Re: SHOW DEVICE/FILES with FORTRAN? # Re: SHOW DEVICE/FILES with FORTRAN? # Re: SHOW DEVICE/FILES with FORTRAN? # Re: SHOW DEVICE/FILES with FORTRAN? # Re: SHOW DEVICE/FILES with FORTRAN? 3 Re: TCPIP$SMTP_SEND_FROM_FILE, what's its future??? 3 Re: TCPIP$SMTP_SEND_FROM_FILE, what's its future??? # Re: Tiny pickings for Itanium OEM's # RE: Tiny pickings for Itanium OEM's # RE: Tiny pickings for Itanium OEM's # Re: Tiny pickings for Itanium OEM's & Re: V6 OpenVMS Freeware CD's questions Value of VAX ft810 Re: Value of VAX ft810 Re: Value of VAX ft810$ Re: Why does Ghostscript build fail? Re: WRQ OpenVMS Survey Re: WRQ OpenVMS Survey  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 16:45:21 -0500 2 From: "-Andy-" <see2go4me@spamdelicious.yahoo.com>! Subject: Re: *.CDD file for CONNX 6 Message-ID: <Xns9574B4A846647see2go4me@216.196.97.131>  8 cljlk@hotmail.com (cljlk) enlightened us on 28 Sep 2004  with:   & > dooleys@snowy.net.au (dooley) wrote:  , >> nojunk <nojunk@nojunk.hotmail.com> wrote:0 >> > I have installed CONNX8.X which is a middle3 >> > between VMX and WindowsXP. Would anyone please 6 >> > tell me how to generat configuration file *.CDD?   5 >> cdd files are not really config files but database / >> metadata You need to install the connx admin / >> software and use the data dictionary manager 6 >> you can import cdd definitions from varions sources >> .cdd .pdl Phil   7 > I have installed CONNX8.x client and admin software.   I 5 > do not see any application that I can generate data + > dictionary file (*.CDD). Would you please / > point it out. I am new in this filed. Thanks.   7 You don't mention what database you are using CONNX to   connect to.   8 The CONNX Data Dictionary Manager program has an import 7 feature, but you need to know a few things in order to  7 use it. Like where your data is and the format/type of   import file.  7 If you're lucky, someone has already written a program  6 to output the 'import file' in the correct format and ! you won't have to do it manually.   4 (I know we provide one for the proprietary database 8 used with our VMS products. Which won't do you any good 6 in this case because if you were using any of our VMS 8 products you would already have called our support line 6 (or sent e-mail) for help and you would be all set... 7 [and this tool doesn't work with any other database...   sorry.])   -Andy- --  4 You can get anything you want, at Alice's Restaurant -- Excepting Alice   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 19:51:15 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>! Subject: Re: *.CDD file for CONNX + Message-ID: <415CAA03.CDD58ECA@comcast.net>   
 R P wrote: > A > "David J Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote in message ' > news:415B59E0.DEBC0965@comcast.net...  > > dooley wrote:  > > > C > > > David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote in message ) > news:<415A1DBA.A487E357@comcast.net>...  > > > > Phil wrote: 	 > > > > > 6 > > > > > "cljlk" <cljlk@hotmail.com> wrote in message@ > > > > > news:de74637.0409280140.5075dcf1@posting.google.com...: > > > > > > dooleys@snowy.net.au (dooley) wrote in messageB > > > >  news:<1ca82fc6.0409271642.1e3094af@posting.google.com>...A > > > > > > > nojunk <nojunk@nojunk.hotmail.com> wrote in message 8 > > > >  news:<4157e50b$0$4033$61fed72c@news.rcn.com>...K > > > > > > > > I have installed CONNX8.X which is a middle between VMX and  > WindowsXP.M > > > > > > > > Would anyone please tell me how to generat configuration file  > *.CDD? > > > > > > > > Thans.I > > > > > > > cdd files are not really config files but database metadata : > > > > > > > You need to install the connx admin software1 > > > > > > > and use the data dictionary manager K > > > > > > > you can import cdd definitions from varions sources .cdd .pdl  > > > > > > > Phil > > > > > > M > > > > > > I have installed CONNX8.x client and admin software. I do not see  > any I > > > > > > application that I can generate data dictionary file (*.CDD).  > Would  > > > > > > you please9 > > > > > > point it out. I am new in this filed. Thanks. C > > > > > I am running a much older version, but the help file says 	 > > > > > L > http://www.connx.com/products/connx/Connx%208.9%20UserGuide/connxcdd32.htm > > > > > To create a CDD = > > > > > Click the Start button, and then point to Programs. A > > > > > Point to CONNX 8, and then click CONNX Data Dictionary. ? > > > > > The Open dialog box appears. Click the Cancel button. ; > > > > > The CONNX Data Dictionary Manager window appears. ? > > > > > You can add or import CDD objects (databases, tables, ? > > > > > fields, views, and stored procedures) by clicking the < > > > > > Add or Import buttons in the CONNX Data Dictionary? > > > > > Manager window and then choosing an available object.  > > > > > Phil > > > > C > > > > Cool, but he wants to GENERATE .CDD files, not import them.  > > > > / > > > I seem to be missing the problem here.... D > > > I assume there is some sort of data structure in place on vms,1 > > > or there wouldn't be any need to use connx. H > > > Connx can understand almost any structure, from a database schema,H > > > vms .ddl files, powerhouse dictionaries and .pdl files, vms commonD > > > data dictionary, and even basic, cobol, and dibol definitions.G > > > If you don't have any of these, you can still create it manually, 4 > > > by adding each table and defining its columns.F > > > After you have created or imported your definition, you generate3 > > > the connx .cdd by clicking the "save" button. C > > > Then you create a connx data-source on your pc that is linked K > > > to this cdd, and then you can use it like any other odbc data source.  > > , > > Good feature - potentially quite useful. > > F > > ...if one has the source code, CDD, etc. Even then - I've seen badL > > source code that doesn't use (predates) CDD or include directives and noB > > one program has the entire layout for one or more files in the > > application. > > E > > Remember: we're talking RMS here - no RDBMS from which to extract : > > schema, and if no source then probably no CDD, either. > > K > > In that case, one could try to reverse-engineer the programs and files, # > > and try to make good guesses...  > > J > > ...which brings us back to the original question: how to GENERATE .CDD > > files for CONNX. > > ' > CDD stands for Connx Data Dictionary.   8 I gathered as much. On VMS, it's Common Data Dictionary.  N > According to a version 8.5 User's Guide, the following table definitions can > be imported into a CDD:   B If you already have them. See dooley's reply for info. on enteringF record definitions by hand base don paper doc.'s, reverse-engineering, etc.  M > Cobol FD, Codasyl DBMS database, DataFlex, POWERflex, DIBOL, formatted DDL, L > Oracle database, Powerhouse PDL, Rdb database, SCT COBOL FD, SpecificationG > text file (RMS), VAX or ALPHA CDD, Oracle DB- and ODBC-compliant data F > sources, Oracle data sources, Informix data sources, SQL Server data4 > sources, Ingres data sources, Sybase data sources.D > Of course you have to pay for the features you want as far as dataK > translantion. I've used the RMS functionality in the past to move a DIBOL  > based customer to SQL based.  G I'm not sure that's much of a step up, especially if its now running on 
 Micro$lop.   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 19:53:21 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>! Subject: Re: *.CDD file for CONNX + Message-ID: <415CAA81.E10E3B3D@comcast.net>   
 dooley wrote:  > g > David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<415B59E0.DEBC0965@comcast.net>...  > > dooley wrote:  > > > k > > > David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<415A1DBA.A487E357@comcast.net>... / > > > I seem to be missing the problem here.... D > > > I assume there is some sort of data structure in place on vms,1 > > > or there wouldn't be any need to use connx. H > > > Connx can understand almost any structure, from a database schema,H > > > vms .ddl files, powerhouse dictionaries and .pdl files, vms commonD > > > data dictionary, and even basic, cobol, and dibol definitions.G > > > If you don't have any of these, you can still create it manually, 4 > > > by adding each table and defining its columns.F > > > After you have created or imported your definition, you generate3 > > > the connx .cdd by clicking the "save" button. C > > > Then you create a connx data-source on your pc that is linked K > > > to this cdd, and then you can use it like any other odbc data source.  > > , > > Good feature - potentially quite useful. > I knowF > > ...if one has the source code, CDD, etc. Even then - I've seen badL > > source code that doesn't use (predates) CDD or include directives and noB > > one program has the entire layout for one or more files in the > > application. > > E > > Remember: we're talking RMS here - no RDBMS from which to extract : > > schema, and if no source then probably no CDD, either. > > K > > In that case, one could try to reverse-engineer the programs and files, # > > and try to make good guesses...  > > J > > ...which brings us back to the original question: how to GENERATE .CDD > > files for CONNX.B > Based on what? Are you expecting it to generate a structure from; > the content of an RMS file? I repeat my earlier assertion F > > > After you have created or imported your definition, you generate3 > > > the connx .cdd by clicking the "save" button. = > If you don't have the source any more, I hope you have some  > documentation,  8 ...or can reverse-engineer ("copious free time", eh?)...  3 > bacause you will have to import from a text file. / > Again, this is extracted from the connx help.  > Phil > D > The RMS text file import specification should be used only if yourH > record layouts are not COBOL FD, DIBOL, Formatted DDL, Powerhouse PDL, > BASIC, > or VAX or Alpha CDD format. < > The first line of each record layout should be as follows:E > CONNXTABLE, <TableName>, <RMS File Name>,<Record Length>, <SQL View 	 > Clause> 3 > Note: Inclusion of a SQL View Clause is optional. @ > One import text file may contain multiple record layouts, each
 > starting( > with the same header line shown above.D > Each subsequent line in the file represents a column in the record	 > layout. ) > The format for each line is as follows: A > <column name>, <column length>, <column offset>, <column type>, D > <column scale>, <column base>, <column fraction>, <column comment>4 > The following is an example of an RMS import file.- > CONNXTABLE, CompanyTable, COMPTABLE.DAT, 64 8 > Company, 30, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, This is the Company Field.5 > Title, 10, 30, 1, 0, 0, 0, This is the Title Field. 3 > Name, 20, 40, 1, 0, 0, 0, This is the Name Field. 1 > Age, 4, 60, 14, 0 ,0 ,2, This is the Age Field.    Hey - at least its possible!  4 Now - to get those ODBC clients running on non-M$...   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 11:11:50 -0700 , From: James Nykiel <jnykiel@access4less.net> Subject: AlphaStation 200 4/233 < Message-ID: <pan.2004.09.30.18.11.50.452088@access4less.net>  
 Greetings:    I I am interested in purchasing a AlphaStation 200 4/233.  I would like the J unit to have both a floppy and cdrom drive if possible but will settle forD unit with a cdrom drive only.  I am also interested in obtaining DEC> keyboard (LK461-AA) and 3 button mouse for use with this unit.  G I would like a unit in fairly decent cosmetic condition if possible.  I B have checked eBay but have not seen what I am looking for to date.  C Let me know what you have and what you are asking.  I am located in  central Oregon.      Thank you... - James Nykiel    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 21:00:24 -0700 3 From: Alan Frisbie <Usenet01REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com> # Subject: Re: AlphaStation 200 4/233 , Message-ID: <415CD658.90506@Flying-Disk.com>   James Nykiel wrote:   K > I am interested in purchasing a AlphaStation 200 4/233.  I would like the L > unit to have both a floppy and cdrom drive if possible but will settle forF > unit with a cdrom drive only.  I am also interested in obtaining DEC@ > keyboard (LK461-AA) and 3 button mouse for use with this unit.  B What is so special about a 200 4/233?   Not that there is anything? wrong with them (I was using one until a few weeks ago).   It's A just that there are much better machines available for only a few  hundred dollars.   Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 20:56:31 -0400 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> F Subject: An article well worth using as ammunition AGAINST leaving VMS, Message-ID: <hY6dnYM885WiNsHcRVn-rg@igs.net>  ! http://windowssecrets.com/040923/   # The State of the Computing Industry    By Brian Livingston   G I like to think back on the good old days, when the worst thing Windows  might do to us was crash.   H Now we have to defend ourselves against invisible programs that silentlyJ take over our PCs, record our keystrokes to capture our banking passwords,K use our bandwidth to send out junk e-mails that can't be traced back to the K senders, and then bury us in the spam we receive in turn from all the other 3 PC users whose machines have been similarly hacked.   K This week, Symantec, the antivirus and security company, released its sixth I semiannual Internet Security Threat Report. It says the firm found a vast F increase in the number of "bot networks" that are under the control ofF hackers. Each network consists of thousands of machines that have been@ infected with Trojan horses and are now controlled by criminals.  L During the first six months of 2004, Symantec detected a rapid growth of botK networks from fewer then 2,000 to 30,000. The number of PCs in each network G is said to average around 2,000. Multiply the number of networks by the H average population of controlled machines and it works out to 60 million" "zombie" PCs - that we know about.  J Symantec found one bot network consisting of 400,000 zombies, according toJ an article by John Markoff in the New York Times. Each network can be usedK to broadcast spam, launch devastating denial-of-service attacks against Web ' sites the hackers don't like, and more.    What's going on here?   K Is this it? Are we just going to face more and more attacks as our computer 2 resources spiral more and more out of our control?  F It seems to me that the computing industry is in denial of how bad theH attacks on our PCs and our lives have become. Things aren't going to getG better without radical changes to bring about a safe and sane computing K environment. The first step is for us to stand back and survey just how bad  the situation has become.   D What follows, therefore, is my first State of the Computing IndustryD report - a quick and dirty overview of the maddening crisis that has engulfed us.  L I focus in this report on four areas - viruses, spam, phishing, and adware -I although an entire book could be written on all the problems that "making K computers easier and more fun" has brought down on our heads. Here we go; I  hope you're sitting down.      Viruses   L Four and a half times more viruses and worms targeted Windows systems in theJ first half of 2004 than the same period of 2003, according to the Symantec< report. That's 4,496 new viruses and worms this year so far.  J About 1 in 12 e-mails carried viruses in the first six months of 2004 thatL are capable of penetrating firewalls meant to keep them out, according to anJ analysis of 5.6 billion e-mails by monitoring firm MessageLabs. Up-to-dateL antivirus programs are capable of stopping most such viruses at this point -1 but the viruses are growing stronger every month.   H There are now 1,740 known, unpatched security flaws in Windows and otherL operating systems, according to statistics collected by US-CERT, a nonprofitK security coordination center. That's more than a 300% increase over the 417 H vulnerabilities that were known to researchers as recently as 1999. More info  G Access to zombie-PC networks is being sold and traded among hackers for C about 10 cents per compromised machine, according to reports in The ( Register, a British high-tech news site.     Spam  L Spam exceeded 70% of all e-mail in July 2004, the highest rate ever detectedH by MessageLabs. It's over 80% of the e-mail received by Internet serviceI providers AOL and MSN. That compares with the halcyon era when only 7% of I all e-mail was spam, as measured by Brightmail as recently as April 2001.   L About 60% of all spam is now sent via zombie-infected machines, according toL Spamhaus.org, a respected antispam service. Besides using their bot networksI to send spam, spammers last year started directing their zombie armies to I flood and disable the servers used by antispam groups. Four such antispam A organizations were forced to shut down in 2003 alone due to these  denial-of-service attacks.  J A single U.S. ISP, Comcast.net, sends 700 million spam messages a day, outE of a total of 800 million daily outgoing messages. This enormous spam I outflow is generated by the large number of ISP users whose PCs have been F hijacked by zombie software, Comcast network engineer Sean Lutner told News.com in May.  E Almost 1/6 of all spam now conforms to SPF (Sender Policy Framework), G according to an analysis by e-mail service provider MX Logic. SPF is an E identification system that's been promoted since last year to prevent G malicious people from "bouncing" junk e-mail onto innocent victims. The A spammers have adopted the SPF system, to make their e-mail appear G legitimate, much more quickly than respected corporations, only a small / minority of which have implemented SPF to date.      Phishing  L More than 1,974 unique phishing attacks were reported in July 2004. PhishingK occurs when spammers send official-looking e-mails, posing as messages from E a bank asking customers to "confirm" their accounts by entering their L passwords. The spammers capture and use these passwords, which are dutifullyC provided by up to 5% of the victims who are contacted, according to L Antiphishing.org, a coalition of financial institutions and major e-commerce sites.  L Phishing attacks are growing at a rate of 50% PER MONTH, the group's figuresJ indicate. Although we often hear that Web sites that collect password dataK for phishers are in Russia and other non-Western countries, 35% of phishing & sites are actually located in the U.S.  L Thirty percent of American consumers have experienced online identity theft,L according to a survey by the Gartner Inc. consulting firm. Ninety percent of, those cases occurred in the past year alone.     Adware  J Adware is exploding on users' PCs, with security firm McAfee alone findingJ more than 14 million instances in March 2004, up from fewer than 2 millionJ just last August. Adware is often called by other names, including spywareK and malware. Since these categories overlap, I use instead the general term K "adware," which I define as "programs that are installed on a user's PC for H the financial benefit of a sponsor without the user's full knowledge andI consent." Putting the approval language into a license agreement and then H asking users to click OK on the entire license is not full knowledge and consent.  J More than 20% of PCs tested by PCPitstop have active in memory one or moreJ programs the company defines as "spyware." Such programs always reduce theE performance of the affected machines but often have much more serious I side-effects as well. (PCPitstop is an online service that diagnoses more # than 1 million machines per month.)   K In surveys, 74% of users whose PCs are running adware from Claria (formerly J Gator) said they had no knowledge of it being installed. The figure is 87%F for adware from WhenU. In papers filed for a court case in 2003, GatorH executives said only 16% of their 27 million "users" were unaware of theL presence of the program on their machines, according to an article publishedD by Forbes Magazine. Even when such adware runs perfectly and doesn'tL negatively affect a PC's reliability, serious issues of privacy and security are raised.     H In the worst cases, adware installs via "drive-by downloads," exploitingG weaknesses in Internet Explorer that allow Web sites to run programs on L users' PCs without them even clicking "OK." Programs downloaded in this way,J as explained in Christian Wagner's spyware/adware/malware FAQ linked to atJ the end of this paragraph, can operate like the worst traditional viruses.G The downloaded programs may install keylogging software to capture user H passwords, send personal information back to a central server, and more.H (The recent Service Pack 2 for Windows XP closes some but not all of the% security flaws in Internet Explorer.)     ! You CAN and MUST protect yourself   L Regular readers of the Windows Secrets Newsletter know that they can protectH themselves from the above threats by maintaining what I call a "securityG baseline." Every PC and computer network should be running at least the # following five protective measures:   F 1. A hardware firewall to keep hackers from accessing your PC from the	 Internet;   G 2. A software (or "personal") firewall to prevent any undetected Trojan < horses from sending out your personal data or anything else;  L 3. An antivirus program that's set to constantly update its virus signatures6 to detect threats in e-mail messages and shared files;  I 4. An antispam program to reduce junk e-mail, which is a common method of   delivering viruses into PCs; and  ? 5. An antiadware program to remove adware and guard against its + re-introduction into your PC in the future.   K A special report on the security baseline, and a review that names the best H products in each of the categories above, is in our June 3, 2004, issue.  C What percentage of PC users do you think have all five of the above K protections in place and working? How many consumers do you think even know 5 that all of these five defenses are needed? Not many.   J More importantly, how many computers that retailers sell to consumers haveL all five of the above protections installed and working when the PC goes outL the door? My guess is, "Almost none" - and that's the problem in a nutshell.  G Every high-tech seller seems to want someone else to be responsible for E taking, and paying for, the security steps that will make PCs and the C Internet safe to use. If computer professionals, manufacturers, and F retailers won't give consumers PCs armed with a comprehensive securityL baseline, why do we think consumers will figure it out and do it themselves?  L I'm sorry, but saying, "You shouldn't click any links you don't trust" isn'tD an acceptable response to the millions of people who've already beenF victimized by the insecurities that were designed into Windows and the	 Internet.   9 The industry's leaders must work together and pay the tab   J I believe the responsibility to clean up this mess resides squarely on theI shoulders of our computing giants - the Microsofts and AOLs of the world. E They've made billions of dollars by selling people on Windows and the H Internet. They're the only entities with the financial resources to takeG Windows and the Internet back from the scum who are now wreaking havoc.   L The industry giants, of course, want someone else - consumers, corporations,L the government - to pay to make computing safe again. But it's ridiculous toA think that millions of private individuals, or, worst of all, the / governments of the world, can handle this task.   B The U.S. Congress would probably make the situation worse with newL legislation, just as Congress unwittingly legalized opt-out spam in the U.S.I when it passed the infamous CAN-SPAM Act in 2003. The bill bears numerous H provisions that were lobbied for by the Direct Marketing Association, an9 advertising interest group that Microsoft is a member of.   L Taking back the Internet will require drastic changes in Windows and the wayG the Internet itself works. I've previously editorialized about one such K step, involving digital signatures to identify the source of e-mail, called J Domain Keys. It's being promoted by Yahoo.com and other computing groups -L but Microsoft and AOL, after promising to work together on such systems, nowA don't agree and are pushing their own, incompatible technologies.   L Our industry's 600-pound gorillas may not be able to come together and agreeG on the solutions we need to restore basic safety and reliability to our G computing lives. But if we don't at least demand that they do so, we'll K watch the Internet slide further and further down the rat hole it's already  in.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 15:19:52 -0400 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>  Subject: Re: As seen in WSJ , Message-ID: <5LydnYvWTObKwcHcRVn-qg@igs.net>   Nigel Barker wrote: 2 > On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 11:58:38 -0400, David Froble > <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote: > G >> 1) Could anybody, much less the producer of a good CPU, really stand   >> still for 6 years?  Doubtful. > F > It's amazing how times change. After the launch of the VAX 11/780 itC > was five years before DEC brought out a faster CPU in the 11/785.     J The pace of change was much slower then. I can tell you that wire-wrappingK circuit boards by hand to test prototypes aids the slowness of the process.    ------------------------------    Date: 30 Sep 2004 16:35:25 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)  Subject: Re: As seen in WSJ 3 Message-ID: <b3H9+lA6UijW@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <e6gol052evsdur617mnnkigtsvq6l7f8mh@4ax.com>, Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com> writes:O > On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 11:58:38 -0400, David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote:  > S >>1) Could anybody, much less the producer of a good CPU, really stand still for 6   >>years?  Doubtful.  > O > It's amazing how times change. After the launch of the VAX 11/780 it was five : > years before DEC brought out a faster CPU in the 11/785.  0 ...despite their best efforts to make it sooner.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 04:48:35 +0800  From: prep@prep.synonet.com  Subject: Re: As seen in WSJ - Message-ID: <87brfn4h5o.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   # Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com> writes:   O > On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 11:58:38 -0400, David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote:  > S >>1) Could anybody, much less the producer of a good CPU, really stand still for 6   >>years?  Doubtful.   F > It's amazing how times change. After the launch of the VAX 11/780 itC > was five years before DEC brought out a faster CPU in the 11/785.   F Ask if anyone has a copy of `Tale of Two Venuses' still. That may fill in a few gaps for you.   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 16:54:22 -0400 < From: "Peter Weaver" <WeaverConsultingServices@sympatico.ca>= Subject: DSN/WIS Retirement -> ITRC "Natural Language Search" + Message-ID: <2s3a40F1g0r8sU1@uni-berlin.de>   H I was just looking at the Fall 2004 HP Services Newsletter. It says thatF DSN/WIS "Will be moved into a retirement transition status" on JanuaryE 28, 2005. The replacement for the Interactive Text Search will be the E "Natural Language Search" in ITRC. Over the past several weeks I have E been working with our Silver TAM and the ITRC people because the ITRC C search simply does not work. For example, if you go to the ITRC and C limit your search to just include "Symptom/solution articles" under F "High performance systems" and enter the search term SMG$ERASE_DISPLAYF you get 1,433 returns. Using WIS (with the subset of databases that weH have access to) I only get 13 hits for the same search, so I would guessA that someone who has full access to all WIS databases would get a C maximum of 30 to 40 hits, not 1,433. That would mean that well over % 1,000 of the hits are false positive.   F During a conference call earlier this week we decided that the best weH could do would be to enter the search "+openvms +smg$erase_display" that@ that returns 133 articles. Even 133 articles seems too high whenF searching for the string SMG$ERASE_DISPLAY, and it is; of the first 20F returns only 3 actually contained the string "SMG$ERASE_DISPLAY." ThatG means for the first 20 returns I am only getting a 15% success rate. If E I only look at the first 4 articles returned the ITRC success rate is  0%.   D It appears that any search involving the "$" or "_" characters wouldH also return many false positives because of the search engine they choseH to use. Can you imagine someone trying to use this tool to find examplesE of using $CREATE_USER_PROFILE? Just now I got 12,686 returns for this ? string., of the first 10 only one actually contained the string  "$CREATE_USER_PROFILE."   F I do not know how HP thinks they can go ahead and retire products when# the replacement is not yet working.   F If anyone else out there is as upset over this as I am then please letG the ITRC team know. The newsletter says that they can be reached at the E e-mail address "itrc_support" at the standard hp.com but the person I G have been dealing with directly is Michael Oravec, put a period between D the first and last name and append @hp.com to the end if you wish toH complain to him. Gold and Silver support customers may want to let their# TAM's know that ITRC does not work.    --   Peter Weaver Weaver Consulting Services Inc.  Canadian VAR for CHARON-VAX  www.weaverconsulting.ca    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 16:26:12 -0500 ( From: brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon)A Subject: Re: DSN/WIS Retirement -> ITRC "Natural Language Search" 1 Message-ID: <04093016261281@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>    Peter Weaver writes:J > I was just looking at the Fall 2004 HP Services Newsletter. It says thatH > DSN/WIS "Will be moved into a retirement transition status" on JanuaryG > 28, 2005. The replacement for the Interactive Text Search will be the G > "Natural Language Search" in ITRC. Over the past several weeks I have G > been working with our Silver TAM and the ITRC people because the ITRC E > search simply does not work. For example, if you go to the ITRC and E > limit your search to just include "Symptom/solution articles" under H > "High performance systems" and enter the search term SMG$ERASE_DISPLAYH > you get 1,433 returns. Using WIS (with the subset of databases that weJ > have access to) I only get 13 hits for the same search, so I would guessC > that someone who has full access to all WIS databases would get aoE > maximum of 30 to 40 hits, not 1,433. That would mean that well overs' > 1,000 of the hits are false positive.  > H > During a conference call earlier this week we decided that the best weJ > could do would be to enter the search "+openvms +smg$erase_display" thatB > that returns 133 articles. Even 133 articles seems too high whenH > searching for the string SMG$ERASE_DISPLAY, and it is; of the first 20H > returns only 3 actually contained the string "SMG$ERASE_DISPLAY." ThatI > means for the first 20 returns I am only getting a 15% success rate. IfqG > I only look at the first 4 articles returned the ITRC success rate is  > 0%.e > F > It appears that any search involving the "$" or "_" characters wouldJ > also return many false positives because of the search engine they choseJ > to use. Can you imagine someone trying to use this tool to find examplesG > of using $CREATE_USER_PROFILE? Just now I got 12,686 returns for this A > string., of the first 10 only one actually contained the stringC > "$CREATE_USER_PROFILE."  > H > I do not know how HP thinks they can go ahead and retire products when% > the replacement is not yet working.W > H > If anyone else out there is as upset over this as I am then please letI > the ITRC team know. The newsletter says that they can be reached at the$G > e-mail address "itrc_support" at the standard hp.com but the person I,I > have been dealing with directly is Michael Oravec, put a period betweeniF > the first and last name and append @hp.com to the end if you wish toJ > complain to him. Gold and Silver support customers may want to let their% > TAM's know that ITRC does not work.   / I do NOT like the ITRC search mechanism either.f  N They have made it too generic and I have found that I need to review through a- lot of JUNK to get to the information I need.        J*o*h*n B*r*a*n*d*o*n2 VMS Systems Administratore* firstname.lastname.spam.me.not@dalsemi.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 20:20:16 -0500.2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>A Subject: Re: DSN/WIS Retirement -> ITRC "Natural Language Search">+ Message-ID: <415CB0D0.182F5C72@comcast.net>>   Peter Weaver wrote:N > J > I was just looking at the Fall 2004 HP Services Newsletter. It says thatH > DSN/WIS "Will be moved into a retirement transition status" on JanuaryG > 28, 2005. The replacement for the Interactive Text Search will be the G > "Natural Language Search" in ITRC. Over the past several weeks I havenG > been working with our Silver TAM and the ITRC people because the ITRCa > search simply does not work. a  D ITRC is the latest illustration of the fact that hp does not have heC first clue how to transition products. Before the example you cite, E there was the retirement of the patch site before ITRC was "ready forr prime time".  B Of course, the prime (and Premier) example would be the Alphacide:E killing off a processor architecture before a replacement is anywhere   close to being ready for market.  B ITRC is yet another example of killing of something the users find. highly useful before its replacement is ready.   > H > If anyone else out there is as upset over this as I am then please letI > the ITRC team know. The newsletter says that they can be reached at thecG > e-mail address "itrc_support" at the standard hp.com but the person IuI > have been dealing with directly is Michael Oravec, put a period betweeneF > the first and last name and append @hp.com to the end if you wish toJ > complain to him. Gold and Silver support customers may want to let their% > TAM's know that ITRC does not work.E  H They know it - they're sick and tried of hearing us bitch about it. They> are powerless to help. Juggernaut trundles on, out of control,= destroying customer relationship after customer relationship.D  G We escalated the patch site issue all the way to Carly. The benefit was@ minimal, at best.i  < Probably should have filed for an injuction and restraint...   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systemsj http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:@" http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------    Date: 30 Sep 2004 16:32:18 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)e5 Subject: Re: HP admits discontinued IA64 workstationso3 Message-ID: <zNXpuc4tHmiw@eisner.encompasserve.org>m  V In article <2s2uooF1gru29U1@uni-berlin.de>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:5 > In article <FRdF3Uctmqo6@eisner.encompasserve.org>, 2 > 	Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:Q >> In article <opse47ezmfzgicya@hyrrokkin>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:  >> nM >>> Migrating from VAX to Alpha was an incompetent and reckless business dec= 	 >>> ision ; >>> as is proven by the number of VAX users still out there  >> sO >> I disagree.  Why should I buy a new computer if the old one serves me well ?  > G > I'm confused.  You disagree and then your next sentence justifies thea > statement you disagreed with?a  I I diagree that the presence of VAX users proves the OS migration to AlpharJ was an incompetent and reckless business decision.  That some people wouldK not switch to Alpha is inevitable.  Nobody at DEC should have expected thataK everyone would move.  But everybody who needed 64 bit addressing on VMS hascC moved, and they would have been out of luck without the Alpha port.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 00:54:47 -0400s( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>5 Subject: Re: HP admits discontinued IA64 workstations , Message-ID: <415CE317.7040806@tsoft-inc.com>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:  X > In article <2s2uooF1gru29U1@uni-berlin.de>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > 5 >>In article <FRdF3Uctmqo6@eisner.encompasserve.org>,k2 >>	Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: >>Q >>>In article <opse47ezmfzgicya@hyrrokkin>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:  >>>  >>>lM >>>>Migrating from VAX to Alpha was an incompetent and reckless business dec= 	 >>>>ision ; >>>>as is proven by the number of VAX users still out thereu >>>>O >>>I disagree.  Why should I buy a new computer if the old one serves me well ?y >>> G >>I'm confused.  You disagree and then your next sentence justifies thea >>statement you disagreed with?l >> > K > I diagree that the presence of VAX users proves the OS migration to AlphaeL > was an incompetent and reckless business decision.  That some people wouldM > not switch to Alpha is inevitable.  Nobody at DEC should have expected that M > everyone would move.  But everybody who needed 64 bit addressing on VMS haseE > moved, and they would have been out of luck without the Alpha port.c >   P A much better statement.  One I agree with.  In addition, the Alpha is a rather / good number cruncher.  Important to some users.   0 Discontinuing the VAX was the only real mistake.   Dave   -- a4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Roade Vanderbilt, PA  15486o   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 00:32:40 -0400r( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>5 Subject: Re: HP admits discontinued IA64 workstationsl, Message-ID: <415CDDE8.2060804@tsoft-inc.com>   Thomas Wirt wrote:   > Tom Linden wrote:  > G >> On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 07:59:48 GMT, Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com> wrote:D >>1 >>> On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 15:24:16 -0400, JF Mezei t# >>> <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy..com> 
 >>> wrote: >>>oE >>>> No matter what marketers tell you, any migration to a different l >>>> architecture,E >>>> even if on same OS requires recertification, testing, migration o >>>> plan, parallel.H >>>> testing etc and that costs a lot of money to the customer, even if  >>>> the OS is >>>> the same.G >>>> That is something which the VMS engineers seem to refuse to admit.c >>>t >>>, >>>rH >>> I quite agree & that is certainly not something that you could ever  >>> accuse VMSH >>> engineering of ignoring. Don't forget that VMS has already migrated  >>> from VAX to,E >>> Alpha & many lessons were learned then. This time the porting is   >>> easier but theE >>> QA, testing, re-certification etc still takes just the same time.u >> >> >>H >> Migrating from VAX to Alpha was an incompetent and reckless business  >> decisionuJ >> as is proven by the number of VAX users still out there  (we are still 
 >> sellingJ >> VAX licenses!)  The decision to go from Alpha to Itanium is worse yet, 
 >> becauseG >> of the prior experience with the dislocation to the customer base.   
 >> And pleasegJ >> don't use the argument that VAX had run out of steam and that it wasn'tH >> extendible to 64 bits, that is demonstrabaly codswallop as evidenced 	 >> by AMDe( >> for example, or better yet, z-series. >  > I > Perhaps I am missing something, but to say that it was foolish for DEC aG > or VMS customers to upgrade from VAX to Alpha seems unbelievable.  I cG > will not say that VAX had run out of steam, but Alpha was WAY faster n
 > right away,e    Q NO IT WAS NOT!  Number crunching on Alpha was better, but that isn't everything. gL   I've still got the tests I ran on the next to last N-VAX (VAXstation 4000 I model 90A) and an AlphaStation 200 4/233.  When string manipulitions are oN included, the (less than 100 MHz) VAX will match the 233 MHz Alpha.  The last R N-VAX was even faster.  The first Alphas were a bit slower than 233 MHz I believe.  ; > than VAX could have been any time soon.  VAX was falling tJ > behind the performance curve.  Alpha was setting the performance curve. K >  It is easy to say that VAX could have been faster if DEC had tried, but uI > history shows that to be incorrect.  DEC was doing everything in their tJ > power to speed up the VAX chips at the time Alpha was coming out.  They H > were already loosing sales to competitors with faster chips.  I agree J > that some sites had needs that did not need more speed and that did not J > grow over time, but most sites did.  My back ground was in research and , > we needed every bit of speed we could get. > F > When I went from a MicroVAX 3500 to an Alpha 4000 my most important     N Reality check.  A MicroVAX 3500 was somewhere around 2.8 VUPs I believe.  The L last N-VAX was at least 40 VUPs.  Let's keep it apples and apples, shall we?  I > application was 100 times faster for a couple of key situations.  This dJ > was the difference between 'start and forget' work and 'wait 30 seconds J > and move on' work.  This greatly increased our productivity.  VAX could J > not have done that at anywhere near the same cost at that time (even if * > additional R&D $$ had been put into it). > D > VAX was great and I loved it, but Alpha is (still today) the best K > designed and implemented computer architecture there is.  I am sure that hJ >  it soon will not be the best Architecture, since it is no longer being < > developed, but it still could be if Intel wanted it to be. >  > Just my humble opinion.t    N I do agree that Alpha is/was a great platform.  For the type of work you were ( doing it was definitely better than VAX.  Q If there were still VAXs being produced today, they would sell, profitably.  Had  O DEC continued to push the VAX in jobs where it worked well there would be many a more VMS systems today.:     Dave   -- T4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Roadt Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 00:37:20 -0400o( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>5 Subject: Re: HP admits discontinued IA64 workstationsu, Message-ID: <415CDF00.8070109@tsoft-inc.com>   John Reagan wrote:   > JF Mezei wrote:a >  >> Thomas Wirt wrote:  >>H >>> or VMS customers to upgrade from VAX to Alpha seems unbelievable.  IH >>> will not say that VAX had run out of steam, but Alpha was WAY faster8 >>> right away, than VAX could have been any time soon.  >> >> >>K >> It was often said that the first Alpha wasn'T actually faster than VAXen J >> available at that time. Remember that clock rate doesn't say the whole 	 >> story.u >> >> > ! > Who said that?  They are wrong.b > B > Looking back on my little list of Dhrystone results from Pascal: > D > 26-Mar-1996, VAXstation 4000 Model 96, OpenVMS VAX V6.2, 105932.2  > dhrystones/secondt > @ > 20-Mar-1996, DEC 3000 Model 500, OpenVMS Alpha V6.2, 203252.0  > dhrystones/second1 > ? > 20-Mar-1996, DEC 3000 Model 400, Digital UNIX V3.0, 224668.6 : > dhrystones/second3 > I > Now this is just one little benchmark (and not a particularly good one  C > at that) and not a scientific experiment, but whether it was the l< > hardware, the OS, or the compilers, the system was faster. >    John,e  / Yes, number crunching was significantly faster.i  7 Throw some MOVC3 and MOVC5 instructions into the tests.n   Dave   -- w4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 00:49:55 -0400-( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>5 Subject: Re: HP admits discontinued IA64 workstationsE, Message-ID: <415CE1F3.7010404@tsoft-inc.com>  , Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote:  P > In article <opse5ia7gczgicya@hyrrokkin>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes: > J >>On 30 Sep 2004 10:56:12 -0500, Larry Kilgallen <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net>   >>wrote: >> >>K >>>In article <opse47ezmfzgicya@hyrrokkin>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>  i
 >>>writes: >>>d >>>6J >>>>Migrating from VAX to Alpha was an incompetent and reckless business   >>>>dec=	 >>>>isionh; >>>>as is proven by the number of VAX users still out therea >>>>J >>>I disagree.  Why should I buy a new computer if the old one serves me  	 >>>well ?  >>>e9 >>Your (rhetorical?) question seems to suggest agreement.e >> > . > I think Larry's argument would go like this: > N >  1) You're still selling licenses on VAX.  This proves indeed that there areK >     still VAX users.  They wouldn't still be VAX users if their old VAXeso >     didn't work for them.e > K >  2) Therefore, their old VAXes are good enough for the purpose and didn'to >     need to be replaced. > K >  3) If they're good enough and didn't need replacement, then why would we @ >     think they would have replaced them with new VAXes either?    " Why don't you ask a hard question?  O Back when I was still selling hardware and could make a buck on it, I sold new eN VAX systems to customers, solely on the reduced cost of maintenance.  In less O than three years, which was the warranty period, the customer would recoup the vH cost of the new system.  The vastly increased performance was a freebee.  O As an example, customer is running a VAX 6000 model 210 with RA90/RA92 drives. tL Big (large) system, requiring expensive air conditioner.  Replace it with a K MicroVAX 3100 model 90/95/96/98 using small SCSI drives.  10 times the CPu oO performance, larger capacity disks, no air conditioning, less space reqiuired, p, less power required.  A win - win situation.  M Were VAX systems to do anywhere near what PC systems have done, people would .R have continued to purchase new VAX systems.  It would be more costly not to do so.     Dave   -- t4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Roadc Vanderbilt, PA  15486t   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 15:22:39 -0400 ' From: "Laconic2" <laconic2@comcast.net>gG Subject: Re: Interbase on VMS (was Re: "Oracle RDB" licensing question)a0 Message-ID: <6POdnQJGEruFwMHcRVn-tg@comcast.com>  K It's not clear that selling Rdb was a mistake.  Maybe Bob Palmer needed thea cash to meet payroll.k  L The real mistake, in my mind was to treat Rdb as a loss leader,  rather thanE as a profit making asset.  For that matter, VMS itself was just aboutnG treated as a loss leader.  Ken Olsen once said,  "In five years, DEC isi  going to be a software company."G Five years later, all they had done was shuffle a bunch of cost centersiH around,  and promote even more middle managers to ephemeral, functonless
 positions.  I It takes more than building great software to be a software company.  Youn, have to be able to SELL IT!  For real money!  L I remember once,  I was talking to the sales rep for a foreign subsidiary ofL DEC.  The customer was really unreceptive to Rdb,  but nobody seemed unhappyI about my presentation.    I was confused and bewildered,  and I asked the4 rep what was going on.  H He gave me evasive answers for a little while,  before he came right outL with it:  "Look." he said, "I could sell them Rdb and a VAX, or let them buyD Oracle and sell them two VAXes.  What do you think I'm going to do?"   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 20:31:48 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing)G Subject: Re: Interbase on VMS (was Re: "Oracle RDB" licensing question)m6 Message-ID: <00A38A7A.4D061B47@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  e In article <zhW6d.10024$Ag7.3467@newssvr15.news.prodigy.com>, "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> writes: 0 >"John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message ' >news:a92dnc6xbsDoNcTcRVn-og@igs.net...e >[snip]r >> >>L >> DEC's sale of RDB to Oracle has to rank up there amongst the more stupid  >> ofnG >> their decisions, especially if the NT/unix port was to be imminentlyiK >> released as was thought at the time. As I have previously written here,   >> DECJ >> could have spun-off the Rdb unit and sold 49% or more of the stock for  >> moresJ >> money than they received from Oracle. The stock market would have been  >> very 7 >> receptive at that time if the unix/NT port was real.  >>M >> Another mistake was not ensuring that the deal with Oracle included an Rdb K >> run-time license included with each copy of VMS (if memory serves, that a >> was, >> part of the NAS-200 and higher licences). >> > L >Selling Rdb was clearly a mistake.  I would also argue that porting Rdb to N >Unix and NT was a mistake.  They should have been working on integrating Rdb M >into VMS.  Digital had a 10 to 15 year head start on everyone else and they oK >managed to squander it.  Now, Microsoft is catching up and you don't seem mK >them talking about porting SQL Server to other operating systems, you see nM >them shipping a free run-time license and integrating the database into the a >operating system.  K [I have no direct knowledge of how these decisions were made, but here's my ' understanding of what happened anyway.]S  L The rationale for ceasing to bundle Rdb runtime license with VMS was that itO was making the dbms ISVs unhappy.  Those ISVs could readily have abandoned VMS,eO and the applications built on top of their DBs would have become unavailable tosL VMS customers.  [Rdb's ability to imitate Oracle interfaces was still a longN way away.]  (We know that the ISVs could have left, because in the end many ofH them _did_.   But I think they did because the customer base shrank, notF because of the competition.  How much the customer base shrank because1 runtime Rdb was no longer bundled, I don't know.)   I The rationale for ports to Unix and NT was that they were intended to (a)nK retain customers who had to change platforms from VMS for whatever reason -dN including Digital's own undermining of the platform and (b) give Rdb a shot atI increasing overall sales by having a wider world of customers to sell to.e  K Microsoft's situation is different.  Windows Servers are so ubiquitous thatsH DBMS ISVs ignore them at their peril.  (Oracle can't _afford_ to abandonG the WIndows market, even though they're no friends to Microsoft.) So MS5K doesn't have that constraint, and, on the other hand, they're on a dominantmI platform, so the expense of ports to other architectures would be to pickrG up a relatively small percentage increment.  If customers wanted to runcK SQL-server-like stuff on other architectures, they could be running Sybase.C  K So your argument that Digital was wrong because it didn't do what Microsofta> is doing ignores the different circumstances of the decisions.   -- Alana   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Sep 2004 16:39:27 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) G Subject: Re: Interbase on VMS (was Re: "Oracle RDB" licensing question)o3 Message-ID: <sI2otBiQM1nm@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  e In article <zhW6d.10024$Ag7.3467@newssvr15.news.prodigy.com>, "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> writes:g  $ > Selling Rdb was clearly a mistake.  E Consider Oracle Classic support on VMS.  It would not be there if DECP< continued to use Rdb to compete with the Oracle Corporation.  G To some customers, having the same database engine available on anotheraG operating system (even if they don't use it there) is an important need H before purchasing.  Note how this proves the SQL standard has been fully< undercut.  SQL is not SQL is not SQL.  The same for Codasyl.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 18:28:42 -0400 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>oG Subject: Re: Interbase on VMS (was Re: "Oracle RDB" licensing question)c, Message-ID: <4MydnTDIJYQHFcHcRVn-iw@igs.net>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:E > In article <zhW6d.10024$Ag7.3467@newssvr15.news.prodigy.com>, "Johnh# > Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> writes:h >w% >> Selling Rdb was clearly a mistake.e >aG > Consider Oracle Classic support on VMS.  It would not be there if DECs> > continued to use Rdb to compete with the Oracle Corporation. >dA > To some customers, having the same database engine available ons	 > anothergD > operating system (even if they don't use it there) is an important > needD > before purchasing.  Note how this proves the SQL standard has been > fullyt> > undercut.  SQL is not SQL is not SQL.  The same for Codasyl.    
 Let's see....hH If Digital/Compaq/HP actively marketed VMS for the past 10 years and was# increasing sales all along the way,c' Sybase would still be available on VMS,c DB2 would be available on VMS,! Oracle would be available on VMS.e Rdb would be available on VMS, SAP would be available on VMS,  TIBCO would be available on VMS,# RiskWatch would be availabe on VMS,t and so on and so on.   Shall I go on?   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Sep 2004 11:37:25 -0700, From: cdandrea@nd.edu (Christopher D'Andrea) Subject: MOVING VAX CLUSTERp= Message-ID: <70aee1c6.0409301037.7fa11936@posting.google.com>f   Hello,  D We have a VAXcluster that has been around for quite some time in theB same location.  It was setup by our local VAX expert who has since? retired.  We need to move it to a different location, and I wassE wondering how to reconfigure it with new IP addresses to a) work as ai1 cluster and b) operate on the local area network.rD (Keeping in mind that I'm not an expert on VAX networking and system maintenance)  A We're using VAX/VMS 6.2 on a pair of VAXstation 4000s and a 3100.t  & Any help would be greatly appreciated,   Chris D'Andrea   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 13:56:42 -0500c( From: brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon) Subject: Re: MOVING VAX CLUSTERp1 Message-ID: <04093013564271@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>    Chris D'Andrea writes:F > We have a VAXcluster that has been around for quite some time in theD > same location.  It was setup by our local VAX expert who has sinceA > retired.  We need to move it to a different location, and I was G > wondering how to reconfigure it with new IP addresses to a) work as ar3 > cluster and b) operate on the local area network. F > (Keeping in mind that I'm not an expert on VAX networking and system > maintenance) > C > We're using VAX/VMS 6.2 on a pair of VAXstation 4000s and a 3100.   G CLUSTER communication does not use TCPIP as protocol for such.  CLUSTERaL communications take place on various medium - I would assume you most likelyM use NI (network) for this.  SCSI would also work however highly unlikely with,0 the equipment you described.  To determine this:  / $ SEARCH SYS$SYSTEM:MODPARAMS.DAT; INTERCONNECTl INTERCONNECT          = "NI"  O So you should be able to move the systems from one location to another and havenL no issue with CLUSTER communications.  Pending that the network routes layer0 2(?) traffic.  Someone can validate this for me.    M Only thing you need to do is shutdown the IP stack will be required to changee the IP configuration.b       J*o*h*n B*r*a*n*d*o*n  VMS Systems Administrator * firstname.lastname.spam.me.not@dalsemi.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 22:44:09 +0200h9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>e Subject: Re: MOVING VAX CLUSTERc' Message-ID: <415C7019.8DEE3261@aaa.com>m   Christopher D'Andrea wrote:t >  > Hello, > F > We have a VAXcluster that has been around for quite some time in theD > same location.  It was setup by our local VAX expert who has sinceA > retired.  We need to move it to a different location, and I wasCG > wondering how to reconfigure it with new IP addresses to a) work as ae; > cluster and b) operate operate on the local area network.vF > (Keeping in mind that I'm not an expert on VAX networking and system > maintenance) > C > We're using VAX/VMS 6.2 on a pair of VAXstation 4000s and a 3100.   % The questions I would be asking are :e  + - What are those (quite old) system doing ?y3 - Does these systems realy *have* to be clustered ?a= - How "different" is the different location ? Same building ?K.   Just another subnet ? Another town/country ?@ - Is "the local area network" the same as it is running in now ?   Or is it another "LAN" ?E - Will the new location use different default router and DNS server ? / - What about your "Alternate Gateway" in SMTP ?lG - Don't forget to update the DNS entries (if any) for the VMS systems !a  G At, at last, have you thought of hiring someone to help with the move ?a  	 Jan-Erik.d   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 21:55:07 GMTo# From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)- Subject: Re: MOVING VAX CLUSTER32 Message-ID: <%g%6d.12150$cC.6632@news.cpqcorp.net>  l In article <70aee1c6.0409301037.7fa11936@posting.google.com>, cdandrea@nd.edu (Christopher D'Andrea) writes:  E :We have a VAXcluster that has been around for quite some time in thecC :same location.  It was setup by our local VAX expert who has since @ :retired.  We need to move it to a different location, and I wasF :wondering how to reconfigure it with new IP addresses to a) work as a2 :cluster and b) operate on the local area network.E :(Keeping in mind that I'm not an expert on VAX networking and systemh
 :maintenance)g  C   Clustering does not operate over IP nor over DECnet, and does noto?   need either IP nor DECnet to be configured, or to be running.3  @   Clustering is quite separate from IP and DECnet, though there A   are certainly causes where having IP or DECnet can be useful ine#   managing and operating a cluster.1  B   If the sole reconfiguration task here involves IP host addresses?   and IP management, there is a manual on TCP/IP management ando@   configuration tasks in the TCP/IP Services manual set that may   be of some interest.  %     http://www.hp.com/go/openvms/doc/t  ?   As for the question of reconfiguring the IP host address, thew@   OpenVMS Ask The Wizard topic (9614) will be of some interest. >   Other topics include (1248), (2073), (2961), (3010), (4085),<   (6225), (6604), (7371), (7410), (7411), and likely others.  =   For details on the default IP gateway setting, see (6796).    @   For IP printing, see (1020) and other topics referenced there.  @   For the steps involved in changing the node name (hostname) --B   that is more involved than changing the IP address -- please see   the OpenVMS FAQ.  (     http://www.hp.com/go/openvms/wizard/%     http://www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq/m  C   I would expect you would be able to perform the disk BACKUP/IMAGErE   operations, a system shut down, package the hardware appropriately,oH   move it, restart the nodes in the new environment without a connectionC   off-LAN, reconfigure the IP, shut down, connect to the IP router, B   and reboot.  (There are other and faster ways, but this approach%   is among the simplest to describe.)   E   With a release as old as OpenVMS VAX V6.2, the corresponding TCP/IPr*   Services configuration command would be:   	 @SYS$MANAGER:UCX$CONFIGl       	--e  B   The astute reader will note that V6.2 was the first release with@   LANCP, hence the above statements on clustering and the IP and%   DECnet network transports do apply.R    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.comN   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 00:44:18 -0400w, From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@spamnotteksavvy.com>% Subject: MS to lose its patent on FATn3 Message-ID: <415CE084.7693F08E@spamnotteksavvy.com>i   ##L As part of a re-examination, the U.S. Patent Office has issued a preliminaryI rejection for a patent previously granted to Microsoft for a Windows file. format.   J The agency ruled that, based on existing inventions at the time, the ideasM behind the FAT (File Allocation Table) patent would have been obvious and are L therefore not subject to patent. Microsoft now has 90 days to respond to the$ filing and make its case for why the patent should be upheld. a ##  I Does this mean that HP can now lower the price of VMS because part of VMS M revenus won't have to go to Microsoft becayuse VMS now has FAT partitions fore the IA64 version of VMS ?t   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Sep 2004 13:13:36 -0500 From: briggs@encompasserve.org, Subject: Re: SHOW DEVICE/FILES with FORTRAN?3 Message-ID: <FtGHuJmW0aju@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  \ In article <04093012490704@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>, brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon) writes:O > I have been looking around for a snippet of code to perform the following DCLd
 > command: >  > $ SHOW DEVICE /FILES <device>  >  > J > I want to be able to do this in FORTRAN - but beggars can't be choosers! > M > I have been searching through the archives and have yet to stumble upon anyi > tangible information.  > . > Can someone point me in the right direction?  J I assume that CALL LIB$SPAWN('SHOW DEVICE /FILES ' // device(1:device_l) ) would be cheating?  F So you're after some kind of cook book for CALL SYS$CMEXEC ( my_code )I and walking the data structures to pull out some file ID's and IPID's andt6 then calling LIB$FID_TO_NAME on the results from that?   	John Briggs   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 18:50:47 GMTO# From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)s, Subject: Re: SHOW DEVICE/FILES with FORTRAN?2 Message-ID: <bAY6d.12122$Zq.3680@news.cpqcorp.net>  \ In article <04093012490704@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>, brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon) writes:N :I have been looking around for a snippet of code to perform the following DCL	 :command:  :- :$ SHOW DEVICE /FILES <device> :e :hI :I want to be able to do this in FORTRAN - but beggars can't be choosers!u :c :RL :I have been searching through the archives and have yet to stumble upon any :tangible information. :m- :Can someone point me in the right direction?g    E   There isn't one.  You would need the OpenVMS source listings, and am1   willingness to generate version-dependent code.y  E   The obvious question -- you've told us what you want to do -- would F   involve acquiring additional background on the problem this callable4   SHOW DEVICE/FILES solution is intended to address.      N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faqeN  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 15:19:26 -0500 ( From: brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon), Subject: Re: SHOW DEVICE/FILES with FORTRAN?1 Message-ID: <04093015192695@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>s   John Briggs writes:rL > I assume that CALL LIB$SPAWN('SHOW DEVICE /FILES ' // device(1:device_l) ) > would be cheating?  H Yes, that would work - except this is for non-priveleged users usage and subsequently would not work.  H > So you're after some kind of cook book for CALL SYS$CMEXEC ( my_code )K > and walking the data structures to pull out some file ID's and IPID's andi8 > then calling LIB$FID_TO_NAME on the results from that?  B Yes!  As long as it can list the same output as SHOW DEVICE/FILES.     Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman writes:G >   There isn't one.  You would need the OpenVMS source listings, and a"3 >   willingness to generate version-dependent code.s > G >   The obvious question -- you've told us what you want to do -- wouldeH >   involve acquiring additional background on the problem this callable6 >   SHOW DEVICE/FILES solution is intended to address.   My problem:0  K I have a group of users that were given full system priveleges in order foroH them to excute SHOW DEVICE /FILES and issue REPLY messages to users that0 were in specific command procedures on a disk.    O In an effort to remove these priveleges I have written an application that uses H $SNDJBC to execute a command procedure under a priveleged account.  ThisO procedure performs SHOW DEVICE /FILES and REPLY messages for the user group andr, reports back the users that were identified.  O The $SNDJBC application works but has one too many points of failure and (IMHO)nK is a sloppy way of acomplishing the task.  I would like to make this fairlyw simple and stream-lined.    H I see that John Briggs mentions a method of acheiveing this and Hoff youL mention that it is not do-able; or at least it is VMS version specific and I- need source listings.  I am confused on that.*     J*o*h*n B*r*a*n*d*o*ni VMS Systems Administratore* firstname.lastname.spam.me.not@dalsemi.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 22:35:40 +0200h9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>r, Subject: Re: SHOW DEVICE/FILES with FORTRAN?& Message-ID: <415C6E1C.9FAD181@aaa.com>   John Brandon wrote:N > 
 > My problem:l > M > I have a group of users that were given full system priveleges in order forvJ > them to excute SHOW DEVICE /FILES and issue REPLY messages to users that0 > were in specific command procedures on a disk.  ; What is triggering that "group of users" to run this proc ?s? Couldn't it be automated in batch under whatever user/privs youb= decide on ? Does it have to be run by some interactive user ?h  	 Jan-Erik.s   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 16:31:23 -0500p( From: brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon), Subject: Re: SHOW DEVICE/FILES with FORTRAN?1 Message-ID: <04093016312321@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>t   Jan-Erik writes:O > > I have a group of users that were given full system priveleges in order for L > > them to excute SHOW DEVICE /FILES and issue REPLY messages to users that2 > > were in specific command procedures on a disk. > = > What is triggering that "group of users" to run this proc ?lA > Couldn't it be automated in batch under whatever user/privs youT? > decide on ? Does it have to be run by some interactive user ?c  K The user group responsible for triggering the event does this interactivelyaO through the use of a SYMBOL.  There is not set time as to when this happens norsH is there a set number of times this can happen during the day.  They mayJ trigger the event once a day to 10 or 20 times a day.  So yes, interactive users must and do trigger it.h  J By the way, the application using $SNDJBC is installed with priveleges and, tagged with an ACL to secure who can use it.     J*o*h*n B*r*a*n*d*o*no VMS Systems Administratoro* firstname.lastname.spam.me.not@dalsemi.com   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Sep 2004 16:46:21 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) , Subject: Re: SHOW DEVICE/FILES with FORTRAN?3 Message-ID: <UI0C21cFMwlT@eisner.encompasserve.org>O  T In article <FtGHuJmW0aju@eisner.encompasserve.org>, briggs@encompasserve.org writes:^ > In article <04093012490704@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>, brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon) writes:P >> I have been looking around for a snippet of code to perform the following DCL >> command:  >> s  >> $ SHOW DEVICE /FILES <device>  H > So you're after some kind of cook book for CALL SYS$CMEXEC ( my_code )K > and walking the data structures to pull out some file ID's and IPID's andc8 > then calling LIB$FID_TO_NAME on the results from that?  7 This approach is the answer to particular requirements,45 the first which comes to mind being job security whenr VMS internals change.t  6 Take it from the voice of experience (me), a long-term8 committment to tracking such internal VMS changes should6 be backed up by a _considerable_ business advantage to8 not using more standard techniques.  The code I maintain+ that plays such tricks is now 16 years old.y   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 16:19:47 -0600g0 From: Mark Berryman <mark.berryman@mvb.saic.com>, Subject: Re: SHOW DEVICE/FILES with FORTRAN?' Message-ID: <415c2413$1@cpns1.saic.com>e   John Brandon wrote:l   > John Briggs writes:y > L >>I assume that CALL LIB$SPAWN('SHOW DEVICE /FILES ' // device(1:device_l) ) >>would be cheating? >  > J > Yes, that would work - except this is for non-priveleged users usage and > subsequently would not work. >  > H >>So you're after some kind of cook book for CALL SYS$CMEXEC ( my_code )K >>and walking the data structures to pull out some file ID's and IPID's and.8 >>then calling LIB$FID_TO_NAME on the results from that? >  > D > Yes!  As long as it can list the same output as SHOW DEVICE/FILES. >  >   > Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman writes: > G >>  There isn't one.  You would need the OpenVMS source listings, and a>3 >>  willingness to generate version-dependent code.n >>G >>  The obvious question -- you've told us what you want to do -- wouldaH >>  involve acquiring additional background on the problem this callable6 >>  SHOW DEVICE/FILES solution is intended to address. >  > 
 > My problem:I > M > I have a group of users that were given full system priveleges in order forsJ > them to excute SHOW DEVICE /FILES and issue REPLY messages to users that2 > were in specific command procedures on a disk.    @ Get a copy of PRIVDCL.  This would allow you to execute command H procedures with elevated privilege and grant access to those procedures  via rights identifier.  8 The users themselves need no elevated privileges at all.  
 Mark Berrymane   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 19:58:51 -0500f2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>, Subject: Re: SHOW DEVICE/FILES with FORTRAN?+ Message-ID: <415CABCB.BEB1A7D2@comcast.net>I   Larry Kilgallen wrote: > V > In article <FtGHuJmW0aju@eisner.encompasserve.org>, briggs@encompasserve.org writes:` > > In article <04093012490704@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>, brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon) writes:R > >> I have been looking around for a snippet of code to perform the following DCL
 > >> command:- > >>" > >> $ SHOW DEVICE /FILES <device> > J > > So you're after some kind of cook book for CALL SYS$CMEXEC ( my_code )M > > and walking the data structures to pull out some file ID's and IPID's andf: > > then calling LIB$FID_TO_NAME on the results from that? > 9 > This approach is the answer to particular requirements,o7 > the first which comes to mind being job security whenF > VMS internals change.a > 8 > Take it from the voice of experience (me), a long-term: > committment to tracking such internal VMS changes should8 > be backed up by a _considerable_ business advantage to: > not using more standard techniques.  The code I maintain- > that plays such tricks is now 16 years old.r  H What are you asking for licenses to use that code in other applications?   -- g David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems> http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:h" http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 20:09:28 -0500t2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>, Subject: Re: SHOW DEVICE/FILES with FORTRAN?+ Message-ID: <415CAE47.E9E7E2B5@comcast.net>a   John Brandon wrote:  >  > John Briggs writes:sN > > I assume that CALL LIB$SPAWN('SHOW DEVICE /FILES ' // device(1:device_l) ) > > would be cheating? > J > Yes, that would work - except this is for non-priveleged users usage and > subsequently would not work. > J > > So you're after some kind of cook book for CALL SYS$CMEXEC ( my_code )M > > and walking the data structures to pull out some file ID's and IPID's andh: > > then calling LIB$FID_TO_NAME on the results from that? > D > Yes!  As long as it can list the same output as SHOW DEVICE/FILES. >   > Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman writes:I > >   There isn't one.  You would need the OpenVMS source listings, and ab5 > >   willingness to generate version-dependent code.  > >lI > >   The obvious question -- you've told us what you want to do -- wouldoJ > >   involve acquiring additional background on the problem this callable8 > >   SHOW DEVICE/FILES solution is intended to address. > 
 > My problem:a > M > I have a group of users that were given full system priveleges in order for J > them to excute SHOW DEVICE /FILES and issue REPLY messages to users that0 > were in specific command procedures on a disk.  F I may have mis-interpreted the syntantics. Looks like you're trying toC identify users of specific DCL produres, regardless of the disks on D which those procedures live, find their uername and/or terminal id.,8 then use REPLY/USER or REPLY/TERM to send them messages.   Did I gather correctly?   Q > In an effort to remove these priveleges I have written an application that usesaJ > $SNDJBC to execute a command procedure under a priveleged account.  ThisQ > procedure performs SHOW DEVICE /FILES and REPLY messages for the user group and . > reports back the users that were identified.  C Without breaching confidences, can you explain why this needs to ber3 done? What is the root problem this seeks to solve?   F > The $SNDJBC application works but has one too many points of failure   What is it? How so?w   > and (IMHO)M > is a sloppy way of acomplishing the task.  I would like to make this fairly  > simple and stream-lined.  H I don't know as that's even possible. "Stream-lined"? Likely a matter ofG opinion. Simple? I don't think this could ever be thought of as simple,u given what's involved.   -- e David J Dachtera dba DJE Systemse http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:t" http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 21:05:23 -0500r( From: brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon), Subject: Re: SHOW DEVICE/FILES with FORTRAN?1 Message-ID: <04093021052367@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>    David J Dachtera wrote:sO > > I have a group of users that were given full system priveleges in order forrL > > them to excute SHOW DEVICE /FILES and issue REPLY messages to users that2 > > were in specific command procedures on a disk. > H > I may have mis-interpreted the syntantics. Looks like you're trying toE > identify users of specific DCL produres, regardless of the disks onaF > which those procedures live, find their uername and/or terminal id.,: > then use REPLY/USER or REPLY/TERM to send them messages. >  > Did I gather correctly?-   On the button.  M Prior, individual users had OPER, SYSPRV, WORLD, and a few others.  Not good.s  N > > In an effort to remove these priveleges I have written an application that > usesL > > $SNDJBC to execute a command procedure under a priveleged account.  ThisO > > procedure performs SHOW DEVICE /FILES and REPLY messages for the user groupn > andb0 > > reports back the users that were identified. > E > Without breaching confidences, can you explain why this needs to bey5 > done? What is the root problem this seeks to solve?   J Users need to be kicked out of the application in order to upload new dataN files into the work-stream.  Otherwise users would continue to use stale data.  H > > The $SNDJBC application works but has one too many points of failure > What is it? How so?   M The installed application (w/priv) uses $SNDJBC to submit a command procedurenN that is designed to identify those users using the specified command procedure1 and send them a message to exit the application.     > > and (IMHO)O > > is a sloppy way of acomplishing the task.  I would like to make this fairlye > > simple and stream-lined. > J > I don't know as that's even possible. "Stream-lined"? Likely a matter ofI > opinion. Simple? I don't think this could ever be thought of as simple,n > given what's involved.  M Well think about having to SUBMIT, SYNCH, then READ an output file to get thet> information when a single application can do it interactively.       J*o*h*n B*r*a*n*d*o*ne VMS Systems Administrator-* firstname.lastname.spam.me.not@dalsemi.com   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Sep 2004 21:20:54 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)r, Subject: Re: SHOW DEVICE/FILES with FORTRAN?3 Message-ID: <oVT2bhTvn8ir@eisner.encompasserve.org>s  ` In article <415CABCB.BEB1A7D2@comcast.net>, David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes: > Larry Kilgallen wrote: >> aW >> In article <FtGHuJmW0aju@eisner.encompasserve.org>, briggs@encompasserve.org writes:ea >> > In article <04093012490704@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>, brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon) writes:oS >> >> I have been looking around for a snippet of code to perform the following DCL  >> >> command: >> >>t# >> >> $ SHOW DEVICE /FILES <device>s >> iK >> > So you're after some kind of cook book for CALL SYS$CMEXEC ( my_code )lN >> > and walking the data structures to pull out some file ID's and IPID's and; >> > then calling LIB$FID_TO_NAME on the results from that?o >> m: >> This approach is the answer to particular requirements,8 >> the first which comes to mind being job security when >> VMS internals change. >>  9 >> Take it from the voice of experience (me), a long-term ; >> committment to tracking such internal VMS changes shoulde9 >> be backed up by a _considerable_ business advantage tot; >> not using more standard techniques.  The code I maintain . >> that plays such tricks is now 16 years old. > J > What are you asking for licenses to use that code in other applications?  @ The very notion of support through an intermediary terrifies me.  > Of course the code I have does not do exactly what the initial= request specified, but the level of tracking changes requireda is equivalent.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 20:51:08 -0700t3 From: Alan Frisbie <Usenet01REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com>e< Subject: Re: TCPIP$SMTP_SEND_FROM_FILE, what's its future???. Message-ID: <415CD42B.1040703@Flying-Disk.com>   JF Mezei wrote:   ) > Don't forget to check for the logicals: $ >  TCPIP$SMTP_PROHIBIT_USER_HEADERSB > Disables outbound alias processing. This prevents the use of the > TCPIP$SMTP_FROM logical. >   >  TCPIP$SMTP_SFF_REQUIRES_PRIVO > This Boolean logical, if defined, requires users to set either SYSPRV, BYPASSeG > or OPER privileges before using the Send From File (SFF) feature. Seen7 > Section 17.7 for more information about this feature.   B Hmmm, I must have missed that when I read the docs.   I'll have toA go back and read it again.   I don't recall seeing anything abouttF those logicals.   I was getting all my information from Ask The Wizard 4492.t  C Section 17.7 of which TCP/IP manual?   I just checked the CDROM doc4B set and the only chapter 17 I see is in the Management manual, and that is about the "R" commands.r  L > Sort of interesting that they put restrictions at one layer of VMS, but by4 > connecting to port 25, you can bypass all of them.   I did find it rather odd also.   Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 00:29:43 -0400 , From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@spamnotteksavvy.com>< Subject: Re: TCPIP$SMTP_SEND_FROM_FILE, what's its future???3 Message-ID: <415CDD1A.950B2989@spamnotteksavvy.com>o   Alan Frisbie wrote:m& > >  TCPIP$SMTP_PROHIBIT_USER_HEADERS" > >  TCPIP$SMTP_SFF_REQUIRES_PRIV  E > Section 17.7 of which TCP/IP manual?   I just checked the CDROM docnD > set and the only chapter 17 I see is in the Management manual, and! > that is about the "R" commands.e  M <company> TCPIP Services For ____VMS manageremnt , Version 5.1, Order Number:s AALU50LTE, January 2001.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 16:32:50 -0400u- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>d, Subject: Re: Tiny pickings for Itanium OEM's, Message-ID: <415C6D70.9668600F@teksavvy.com>   "Main, Kerry" wrote:D > In each case, Microsoft only dropped the platform after the vendor
 > dropped it.e  L Technically might be true, but you are naive if you believe that this is theL real reason. In each case, Microsoft decided that the market just wasn't bigG enough and because it wasn't seing potential, decided that the hardware)J manufacturer should pay for the windows port, at which point, the hardware" vendors decided to not pay for it.  M Tell me this: does Intel pay Microsoft to have each Windows version ported to>L 8086 ? It probably paid Microsoft to have the Ia64 port done though since it$ doesn't have great market potential.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 22:29:14 -0400 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com>>, Subject: RE: Tiny pickings for Itanium OEM'sR Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB45D4A6@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----9 > From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com]=20e" > Sent: September 30, 2004 4:33 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coma. > Subject: Re: Tiny pickings for Itanium OEM's >=20 > "Main, Kerry" wrote:F > > In each case, Microsoft only dropped the platform after the vendor > > dropped it.O >=20@ > Technically might be true, but you are naive if you believe=20 > that this is theA > real reason. In each case, Microsoft decided that the market=20  > just wasn't bigs? > enough and because it wasn't seing potential, decided that=20i > the hardwareB > manufacturer should pay for the windows port, at which point,=20 > the hardware$ > vendors decided to not pay for it. >=20@ > Tell me this: does Intel pay Microsoft to have each Windows=20 > version ported tomA > 8086 ? It probably paid Microsoft to have the Ia64 port done=20, > though since ith& > doesn't have great market potential.  D Nope - it was not costing MS anything as all the porting and supportD costs were incurred and implemented by the HW vendors (MS did not doF this). Granted, the non-Intel platform revenue was not nearly as greatD as the Intel related revenue, but MS only had to pick up the chequesD with near zero expenses, so why should they discontinue support? =20  E Course, when each of the HW vendors came out and publically announcedmE "we are done with this", then MS had little choice other than to spin G something like "due to limited market share, MS is no longer supportingf X platform".  F In each case, it was the HW vendors driving the decision as it was notG costing MS anything and in reality actually gave them the capability toa promote "multi-platform".t   Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultantn HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477o kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  $ "OpenVMS has always had integrity .. Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .."   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 23:58:47 -0400o2 From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com>, Subject: RE: Tiny pickings for Itanium OEM's. Message-ID: <415C9DB7.25166.5B04B6D@localhost>  + On 30 Sep 2004 at 22:29, Main, Kerry wrote:oF > Nope - it was not costing MS anything as all the porting and supportF > costs were incurred and implemented by the HW vendors (MS did not doH > this). Granted, the non-Intel platform revenue was not nearly as greatF > as the Intel related revenue, but MS only had to pick up the chequesD > with near zero expenses, so why should they discontinue support?    B Of course, this was exactly the situation with NT on Alpha, too.  ! Look how that turned out.  *zap*!r  
 --Stan Quayle  Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------- Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-136373 8572 North Spring Ct., Pickerington, OH  43147  USA 0 stan-at-stanq-dot-com       http://www.stanq.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 00:27:22 -0400g, From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@spamnotteksavvy.com>, Subject: Re: Tiny pickings for Itanium OEM's3 Message-ID: <415CDC8E.AF8D55BD@spamnotteksavvy.com>k   "Main, Kerry" wrote:G > Course, when each of the HW vendors came out and publically announcedbG > "we are done with this", then MS had little choice other than to spin I > something like "due to limited market share, MS is no longer supportingd > X platform".  J No, the decision that "Windows on platform X is not strategic" was done byM microsoft beforehand, at which point the manufacturer was given the option toy! continue to pay for that version.-  L Again, if it is Intel that writes all the code for Windows for the 8086, why does Microsoft exist ?  M Had Alpha been a success, I am quite sure that Microsoft would have completedRF the porting of applications and continues support of Windows on Alpha.  F But becayuse Digital/Compaq did not perform the originally anticipatedM marketing and pushing of Alpha, it is no surprise that Microsoft quickly lost K interest in Windows/alpha and threw the ball to Digital/Compaq's court, andpH this probably happened in the last days of Digital, or perhaps MicrosoftM waited for the Compaq takeover to see what Compaq would be doing, and as soonnM as accountant Curly filled the void, he probably told Microsoft not to expectr3 any growth in Alpha because it would be phased out.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 18:45:18 GMTf# From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)V/ Subject: Re: V6 OpenVMS Freeware CD's questionss2 Message-ID: <2vY6d.12121$Zq.4977@news.cpqcorp.net>  k In article <pan.2004.09.30.04.07.47.607519@access4less.net>, James Nykiel <jnykiel@access4less.net> writes:   @   The next Freeware Submission Deadline is 8-Nov-2004.  Freeware"   submission info is available at:  )     http://www.hp.com/go/openvms/freeware-   	---  B :Does anyone know if you can purchase the V6 OpenVMS Freeware CD'sG :(1-4) located at http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/freeware/index.html  :aG :Unfortunately I am limited to a dial-up connection at this time and itcD :would take me forever to download the files! - If you are unable toH :purchase the CD's would someone with a high speed connection be willing@ :to download the files and burn the CD's for me for a small fee?  iD   The HP part number is in the Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ), butB   -- given the ability to freely copy the Freeware disks -- HP hasD   very few copies of it and is accordingly likely to retire the partD   number and the offering.  Freeware kits will continue to ship with   OpenVMS itself, of course.   	...  J                       To acquire the OpenVMS Freeware CD-ROM distribution,H                       you can order an OpenVMS distribution from HP (theH                       Freeware is included)(see the OpenVMS SPD for partH                       numbers), or you can specifically order a Freeware=                       distribution from HP under part number:s  #                      o  QA-6KZAA-H8    	--r  E   When faced with this situation, I usually visit an internet cafe ordE   such, partake of a beverage or two, and download the file(s) on thet   high(er) speed link.   	--      The FAQ is available at:  $     http://www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faqkN  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.comn   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Sep 2004 13:23:47 -0700. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) Subject: Value of VAX ft810m= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0409301223.7827d41f@posting.google.com>e   How much is a VAX ft810 worth?   Who might want to buy one?    We have one to part with with...   TF85 20 disks (diax)n TF857    Thanks.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 18:40:26 -0400i% From: "vax, 9000" <vax9000@gmail.com>  Subject: Re: Value of VAX ft810.: Message-ID: <cji1vj$sq7$1@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>   Alan E. Feldman wrote:    > How much is a VAX ft810 worth?I It is hard to tell. I don't know how big vaxft 810 is. Big vax 6610s wereSH sold for around $50 on ebay (maybe because of the fact that they are bigK and expensive to move). Small vax 4000 90/96s went to several handreds. But I vaxft 810 is unique (fault tolerant), so somebody might want to pay more,o) or much more if resellers really want it.t  	 vax, 9000    >  > Who might want to buy one? > " > We have one to part with with... >  > TF85 > 20 disks (diax)n > TF857a > 	 > Thanks.h   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 01:04:57 -0400, From: "Richard Tomkins" <tomkinsr@istop.com> Subject: Re: Value of VAX ft810f, Message-ID: <415ce524_3@corp.newsgroups.com>   WOW!% Is the system functional/operational?(+ A Fault Tolerant VAX is a rare bird indeed.eL Do the serial numbers on the cabinets begin with KA? If so I may have worked on it.  4 This is a true hardware based Fault Tolerant system.  G The system runs OpenVMS with a small optional package to make the faultrL tolerant hardware work. Once that is installed, all software that runs on itJ is fault tolerant, completely. No funny link libraries or special software! packages to build into your code.f   rtto  ; "Alan E. Feldman" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> wrote in message 7 news:b096a4ee.0409301223.7827d41f@posting.google.com...-  > How much is a VAX ft810 worth? >3 > Who might want to buy one? >o" > We have one to part with with... >R > TF85 > 20 disks (diax)s > TF857% >d	 > Thanks.6        > -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----A http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! ? -----==  Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----c   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 21:46:54 +0200t0 From: Keith Cayemberg <keith.cayemberg@arcor.de>- Subject: Re: Why does Ghostscript build fail?tA Message-ID: <415c62af$0$3640$9b4e6d93@newsread2.arcor-online.net>l   prep@prep.synonet.com wrote:1 > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:s >  >  >>Lawrence Bleau wrote:e >>, >>>Any hints on where I should go from here? >  > A >>Ghostscript needs a whole bunch or libraries to build properly.3 >  > R >>There are prebuilt images of ghistscript which might save you a lot of problems. >  > O >>Note that ghostscript, by itself, does the conversionf rom postscript to manyf" >>output formats such as jpeg etc. >  > P > There is a copy of Ghostscript tucked away in Dec Document if you have the CDs > handy. >   L I have the following URLs for GhostScript (Binaries and Info) for OpenVMS...   DECWindows ARCHIVE - PS viewersd" http://decwarch.free.fr/pspdf.html  ! Ghostscript, Ghostview and GSview  http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~ghost/   GhostScript - TU Delft? http://nchrem.tnw.tudelft.nl/openvms/software2.html#GhostScript0   Ghostscript pcsi_kits - SAIC' http://mvb.saic.com/freeware/pcsi_kits/o   Cheers!n   Keith Cayemberge   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Sep 2004 16:36:15 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)o Subject: Re: WRQ OpenVMS Surveyo3 Message-ID: <y9txI24$ZHZc@eisner.encompasserve.org>   U In article <415C3064.8060909@MMaz.com>, "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> writes:  > Hal Kuff wrote:o > 5 >>http://websurveyor.net/wsb.dll/12108/OpenVMS_04.htm  >>   >>G > This isn't a survey, this is just gathering contact & marketing data!a  C It is whatever you want it to be, since it accepts input which have # blanks for the contact information.n   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 19:57:24 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> Subject: Re: WRQ OpenVMS Survey + Message-ID: <415CAB74.65A47CB6@comcast.net>,   "Barry Treahy, Jr." wrote: >  > Hal Kuff wrote:c > 6 > >http://websurveyor.net/wsb.dll/12108/OpenVMS_04.htm > >h > >uG > This isn't a survey, this is just gathering contact & marketing data!t  C To me, it looks like an effort to establish the demographics of thesD remaining OpenVMS user base, disguised as an effort to gather market data for WRQ products.  H Hhmmm... very clever. Perhaps these guys should be working for OpenVMS's6 marketing department, eh? Show 'em a thing or three...   -- - David J Dachtera dba DJE Systemso http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:-" http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.544 ************************>i   ##L As part of a re-examination, the U.S. Patent Office has issued a preliminaryI rejection for a patent previously granted to Microsoft for a Windows file. format.   J The agency ruled that, based on existing inventions at the time, the ideasM behind the FAT (File Allocation Table) patent would have been obvious and are L therefore not subjd. <<< RETR fail.objxq >>> 150 IMAGE retrieve of /disk$misc/decus/vax85b/praxis/litton/compilers/vax/vax/fail.obj (564 bytes) started.r9 >>> 226 Transfer completed.  451 (8) bytes transferred.2  <<< PORT 83,31,156,101,158,2166 >>> 200 Port 158.216 at Host 83.31.156.101 accepted. <<< RETR filenv.spsls >>> 150 IMAGE retrieve of /disk$misc/decus/vax85b/praxis/litton/compilers/vax/vax/filenv.sps (826 bytes) started. 9 >>> 226 Transfer completed.  138 (8) bytes transferred.8  <<< PORT 83,31,156,101,158,2176 >>> 200 Port 158.217 at Host 83.31.156.101 accepted. <<< RETR filutl.spsos >>> 150 IMAGE retrieve of /disk$misc/decus/vax85b/praxis/litton/compilers/vax/vax/filutl.sps (520 bytes) started.T9 >>> 226 Transfer completed.  369 (8) bytes transferred.1  <<< PORT 83,31,156,101,158,2186 >>> 200 Port 158.218 at Host 83.31.156.101 accepted. <<< RETR final.objs >>> 150 IMAGE retrieve of /disk$misc/decus/vax85b/praxis/litton/compilers/vax/vax/final.obj (1454 bytes) started.O9 >>> 226 Transfer completed.  583 (8) bytes transferred..  <<< PORT 83,31,156,101,158,2196 >>> 200 Port 158.219 at Host 83.31.156.101 accepted. <<< RETR final.spsr >>> 150 IMAGE retrieve of /disk$misc/decus/vax85b/praxis/litton/compilers/vax/vax/final.sps (970 bytes) started.8 >>> 226 Transfer completed.  32 (8) bytes transferred.  <<< PORT 83,31,156,101,158,2206 >>> 200 Port 158.220 at Host 83.31.156.101 accepted. <<< RETR g.comn >>> 150 IMAGE retrieve of /disk$misc/decus/vax85b/praxis/litton/compilers/vax/vax/g.com (826 bytes) started.9 >>> 226 Transfer completed.  177 (8) bytes transferred.8  <<< PORT 83,31,156,101,158,2216 >>> 200 Port 158.221 at Host 83.31.156.101 accepted. <<< RETR gchar.objs >>> 150 IMAGE retrieve of /disk$misc/decus/vax85b/praxis/litton/compilers/vax/vax/gchar.obj (2674 bytes) started.e: >>> 226 Transfer completed.  2426 (8) bytes transferred.  <<< PORT 83,31,156,101,158,2226 >>> 200 Port 158.222 at Host 83.31.156.101 accepted. <<< RETR gchar.spsr >>> 150 IMAGE retrieve of /disk$misc/decus/vax85b/praxis/litton/compilers/vax/vax/gchar.sps (934 bytes) started.8 >>> 226 Transfer completed.  63 (8) bytes transferred.  <<< PORT 83,31,156,101,158,2236 >>> 200 Port 158.223 at Host 83.31.156.101 accepted. <<< RETR get.spsq >>> 150 IMAGE retrieve of /disk$misc/decus/vax85b/praxis/litton/compilers/vax/vax/get.sps (1656 bytes) started..: >>> 226 Transfer completed.  1099 (8) bytes transferred.  <<< PORT 83,31,156,101,158,2246 >>> 200 Port 158.224