1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 01 Oct 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 545       Contents:7 Re: "frozen" application by using Advanced Server Share  Re: AlphaStation 200 4/233 Re: AlphaStation 200 4/233 Re: AlphaStation 200 4/233 Anyone doing RSA Key FOBS....  Re: As seen in WSJ Re: As seen in WSJ8 Re: DSN/WIS Retirement -> ITRC "Natural Language Search"8 Re: DSN/WIS Retirement -> ITRC "Natural Language Search"8 Re: DSN/WIS Retirement -> ITRC "Natural Language Search"8 Re: DSN/WIS Retirement -> ITRC "Natural Language Search"8 Re: DSN/WIS Retirement -> ITRC "Natural Language Search"8 Re: DSN/WIS Retirement -> ITRC "Natural Language Search"8 Re: DSN/WIS Retirement -> ITRC "Natural Language Search", RE: HP admits discontinued IA64 workstations, Re: HP admits discontinued IA64 workstations, Re: HP admits discontinued IA64 workstations> Re: Interbase on VMS (was Re: "Oracle RDB" licensing question)> Re: Interbase on VMS (was Re: "Oracle RDB" licensing question)> Re: Interbase on VMS (was Re: "Oracle RDB" licensing question)> Re: Interbase on VMS (was Re: "Oracle RDB" licensing question) Jonas and Jboss on OpenVMS7 Kyocera printer on two (2) IP OVMS 7.2-1 doesn't print.  light browser? Re: light browser? Re: light browser? Re: light browser? Re: light browser? Re: light browser? Re: light browser? Re: light browser?  Re: MS to lose its patent on FAT# Re: SHOW DEVICE/FILES with FORTRAN? # Re: SHOW DEVICE/FILES with FORTRAN? # Re: SHOW DEVICE/FILES with FORTRAN? # Re: SHOW DEVICE/FILES with FORTRAN? # Re: SHOW DEVICE/FILES with FORTRAN? # Re: SHOW DEVICE/FILES with FORTRAN? # Re: SHOW DEVICE/FILES with FORTRAN? # Re: SHOW DEVICE/FILES with FORTRAN? # Re: SHOW DEVICE/FILES with FORTRAN? # Re: SHOW DEVICE/FILES with FORTRAN? # Re: SHOW DEVICE/FILES with FORTRAN? P Sys$Startup:License_Check.Exe (revisited) - OPENVMS-ALPHA not authorized on this3 Re: TCPIP$SMTP_SEND_FROM_FILE, what's its future??? # Re: Tiny pickings for Itanium OEM's # RE: Tiny pickings for Itanium OEM's # RE: Tiny pickings for Itanium OEM's # Re: Tiny pickings for Itanium OEM's # Re: Tiny pickings for Itanium OEM's # Re: Tiny pickings for Itanium OEM's # RE: Tiny pickings for Itanium OEM's # Re: Tiny pickings for Itanium OEM's # RE: Tiny pickings for Itanium OEM's  Re: Value of VAX ft8109 Why do I need Read access to a directory, to WRITE to it? = Re: Why do I need Read access to a directory, to WRITE to it?  Re: WRQ OpenVMS Survey  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 1 Oct 2004 06:21:54 -0700 " From: udo.kaul@merck.de (Udo Kaul)@ Subject: Re: "frozen" application by using Advanced Server Share< Message-ID: <302d60f2.0410010521.a29cceb@posting.google.com>   Hi Paul,   thanks for that Information.6 I change the pwrk.ini as described and it works now !!= Additionally I changed the Device Format from ODS-2 to ODS-5  8 with no highwater marking. All things together speed the application up .   Once more Thanks a lot .     best regards Udo   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 08:13:20 -0700 , From: James Nykiel <jnykiel@access4less.net># Subject: Re: AlphaStation 200 4/233 < Message-ID: <pan.2004.10.01.15.13.16.971577@access4less.net>  
 Greetings:  @ Unfortunately my budget is somewhat limited at this time and theC AlphaStation 200 4/233 is probably about the best I can afford as a F hobbyist at this time.  Would also be interested in a AlphaStation 200H 4/266 with the same configuration I described previously (floppy, cdrom, etc).    Thanks - Jim  7 On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 21:00:24 -0700, Alan Frisbie wrote:    > James Nykiel wrote:  > H >> I am interested in purchasing a AlphaStation 200 4/233.  I would likeF >> the unit to have both a floppy and cdrom drive if possible but willD >> settle for unit with a cdrom drive only.  I am also interested inI >> obtaining DEC keyboard (LK461-AA) and 3 button mouse for use with this  >> unit. > J > What is so special about a 200 4/233?   Not that there is anything wrongK > with them (I was using one until a few weeks ago).   It's just that there D > are much better machines available for only a few hundred dollars. >  > Alan   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 19:01:51 +0200, From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems.dotweg@zonnet.nl># Subject: Re: AlphaStation 200 4/233 + Message-ID: <2s5gvfF1hpn34U1@uni-berlin.de>    Jim,  K you might want to look at the white box Alpha's. Since they were sold as NT 
 only systems, J and given the fact that there is no (supported) Windows 2000 kit for them, most of them are considered next to worthless. K However, the Digital Server 3300, 5305 and 7305 series do run VMS with just  a minor  software modification.  
 Hans Vlems  ; "James Nykiel" <jnykiel@access4less.net> schreef in bericht 6 news:pan.2004.10.01.15.13.16.971577@access4less.net... > Greetings: > B > Unfortunately my budget is somewhat limited at this time and theE > AlphaStation 200 4/233 is probably about the best I can afford as a H > hobbyist at this time.  Would also be interested in a AlphaStation 200J > 4/266 with the same configuration I described previously (floppy, cdrom, > etc).  >  > Thanks - Jim > 9 > On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 21:00:24 -0700, Alan Frisbie wrote:  >  > > James Nykiel wrote:  > > J > >> I am interested in purchasing a AlphaStation 200 4/233.  I would likeH > >> the unit to have both a floppy and cdrom drive if possible but willF > >> settle for unit with a cdrom drive only.  I am also interested inK > >> obtaining DEC keyboard (LK461-AA) and 3 button mouse for use with this 
 > >> unit. > > L > > What is so special about a 200 4/233?   Not that there is anything wrongG > > with them (I was using one until a few weeks ago).   It's just that  there F > > are much better machines available for only a few hundred dollars. > >  > > Alan >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 10:38:26 -0700 3 From: Alan Frisbie <Usenet01REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com> # Subject: Re: AlphaStation 200 4/233 . Message-ID: <415D9612.6040008@Flying-Disk.com>   James Nykiel wrote:   B > Unfortunately my budget is somewhat limited at this time and theE > AlphaStation 200 4/233 is probably about the best I can afford as a H > hobbyist at this time.  Would also be interested in a AlphaStation 200J > 4/266 with the same configuration I described previously (floppy, cdrom, > etc).   F I have one that I will sell for $100 (plus shipping from Los Angeles).@ I was running VMS v7.3-2 on it until about six weeks ago, when I upgraded to a newer machine.   The configuration is:       AlphaStation 200 4/233 0    Full (2 chip) flash memory (both ARC and SRM)    Current firmware installed 
    384 MB RAM     RX26 Floppy    RRD46 CDROM    RZ28D (2 GB) disk    Your choice of video cards:      ZLXp-E1 PBXGA-AA       ZLXp-E2 PBXGA-BA       ELSA Gloria Synergy  8 I'll even throw in a copy of the User Information manual7 (EK-PCDTA-UI).   For an extra $10, I'll add a jet-black 9 (but otherwise identical to DEC) 3-button mouse.   Sorry, 9 but I don't have any spare VMS-style keyboards.   The key  for the case is also included.  6 I just powered it on to check, and discovered that the5 second disk drive (a Quantum Viking) has died.   If I 7 can find another suitable drive (narrow SCSI drives are 7 getting hard to find) around here I'll throw that in at  no cost.  9 If you like, I can pre-install VMS v7.3-2 so all you will & have to do is enter your license PAKs.  9 If you want to pick it up here in Los Angeles, I'll knock  $20 off the price.  9 If interested, send me e-mail at Frisbie <at> Flying-Disk . <dot> com or to the de-munged posting address.   Alan   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 11:38:03 -0400" From: "Hal Kuff" <kuff@tessco.com>& Subject: Anyone doing RSA Key FOBS....- Message-ID: <cjjtkf$1dq@library1.airnews.net>   H     Is anyone using RSA key FOBS with OpenVMS...? What interface are youI using...? RSA claims they had a package that hooked into loginout via the < callout mechanism but they haven't supported it for years...   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Oct 2004 07:48:37 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: As seen in WSJ 3 Message-ID: <BlI9dyoRDNrW@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <e6gol052evsdur617mnnkigtsvq6l7f8mh@4ax.com>, Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com> writes:O > On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 11:58:38 -0400, David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote:  > S >>1) Could anybody, much less the producer of a good CPU, really stand still for 6   >>years?  Doubtful.  > O > It's amazing how times change. After the launch of the VAX 11/780 it was five : > years before DEC brought out a faster CPU in the 11/785.  D    Lesson not learned:  meanwhile SEL was running circles around DECE    on CPU performance with it's SEL 32 line of minicomputers but not  2    selling so well because the OS was such a pain.  <    Software, software, software:  it's what sells computers.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 14:59:05 +0100 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>  Subject: Re: As seen in WSJ 0 Message-ID: <cjjnra$k0u$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Bob Ceculski wrote:    > = > you are in left field as usual Andrew ... what will make or 3 > break itanium as a viable chip are two things ...  >  > 1. OpenVMS0 > 2. the ev8 alpha team to make itanium ev8 like > A > OpenVMS will make or break itanium ... that is the bottom lime!   = Ignoring the patent absurdity of you accusing anyone of being 8 out in the left field lets instead exhamine your the two) factors that you think will save Itanium.    1.	OpenVMS.   ? OpenVMS systems revenues currently run at 50 million a quarter, 7 even if every single sale converts to Itanium (which is < unlikely) and even if that revenue then doubled, also pretty: unlikely given HP's lack of interest in OpenVMS that would7 only take the total systems revenues for OpenVMS to 400  million a year.   : Many people think that Itanium is destined for the dustbin5 now and that is based on a total market that is worth  ~1.2 billion a year.  9 So your best case scenario for OpenVMS would increase the 9 total systems revenues for itanium by 30%, this is a drop 7 in the ocean, Itanium needs to double its revenues this : year next year the year after that and the year after that  and it will still be off target.   2.	The EV8 team.  5 Some of the EV8 team have made it to Intel, most have 3 however have left to joind AMD etc and to be honest 6 whatever they do will be too late. The fate of Itanium9 will be decided in the next 18 months and any impact from 1 the EV8 team will be well outside that timeframe.   / As always your responses reveal more about your $ wat you don't know that what you do.   Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  * Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 07:21:16 +0000 (UTC)6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)A Subject: Re: DSN/WIS Retirement -> ITRC "Natural Language Search" 0 Message-ID: <newscache$1c9w4i$6dh$1@news.sil.at>  j In article <2s3a40F1g0r8sU1@uni-berlin.de>, "Peter Weaver" <WeaverConsultingServices@sympatico.ca> writes:G >I do not know how HP thinks they can go ahead and retire products when $ >the replacement is not yet working.  - Knock Knock. Exactly that has a long history. O If you need examples then this newsgroup could give you an awful experience ;-)    --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 08:54:26 -0400< From: "Peter Weaver" <WeaverConsultingServices@sympatico.ca>A Subject: Re: DSN/WIS Retirement -> ITRC "Natural Language Search" + Message-ID: <2s52c3F1i0svqU1@uni-berlin.de>    John Brandon wrote:  >...1 > I do NOT like the ITRC search mechanism either.  > F > They have made it too generic and I have found that I need to review9 > through a lot of JUNK to get to the information I need.  >...  D Exactly, please make sure that the ITRC folks know that I am not theF only one in the world who finds this tool useless. The HP-UX guy who ID share office space with thinks that ITRC is the greatest thing sinceF sliced bread, but he has very few searches that would include either a dollar sign or an underscore.    --   Peter Weaver Weaver Consulting Services Inc.  Canadian VAR for CHARON-VAX  www.weaverconsulting.ca    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 09:16:50 -0400< From: "Peter Weaver" <WeaverConsultingServices@sympatico.ca>A Subject: Re: DSN/WIS Retirement -> ITRC "Natural Language Search" + Message-ID: <2s53m3F1g8d7kU1@uni-berlin.de>    David J Dachtera wrote:  >...E > They know it - they're sick and tried of hearing us bitch about it. E > They are powerless to help. Juggernaut trundles on, out of control, ? > destroying customer relationship after customer relationship.  >...  G Yeah , I know. HP does not care about the customers at all, their focus D is making sure that the Wall Street people think they care about theD customers. I'm sure someone somewhere is looking at this and saying,E "Our new tool returns 1,433 hits and old one only returns 13, doesn't G that show that we are providing more information to our customers?" But G when the first 20 returns only has 3 articles that are dealing with the 5 search then the tool is a complete and total failure.    --   Peter Weaver Weaver Consulting Services Inc.  Canadian VAR for CHARON-VAX  www.weaverconsulting.ca    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 09:46:40 -0400# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> A Subject: Re: DSN/WIS Retirement -> ITRC "Natural Language Search" , Message-ID: <15idnTvNaZxdwsDcRVn-iw@igs.net>   Peter Weaver wrote:  > David J Dachtera wrote:  >> ...F >> They know it - they're sick and tried of hearing us bitch about it.F >> They are powerless to help. Juggernaut trundles on, out of control,@ >> destroying customer relationship after customer relationship. >> ... > C > Yeah , I know. HP does not care about the customers at all, their B > focus is making sure that the Wall Street people think they careD > about the customers. I'm sure someone somewhere is looking at thisG > and saying, "Our new tool returns 1,433 hits and old one only returns E > 13, doesn't that show that we are providing more information to our D > customers?" But when the first 20 returns only has 3 articles thatC > are dealing with the search then the tool is a complete and total 
 > failure.  % Maybe the new system runs on Windows.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 09:48:46 -0400< From: "Peter Weaver" <WeaverConsultingServices@sympatico.ca>A Subject: Re: DSN/WIS Retirement -> ITRC "Natural Language Search" + Message-ID: <2s55i0F1de3tmU1@uni-berlin.de>     Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER wrote:< > In article <2s3a40F1g0r8sU1@uni-berlin.de>, "Peter Weaver"1 > <WeaverConsultingServices@sympatico.ca> writes: D >> I do not know how HP thinks they can go ahead and retire products+ >> when the replacement is not yet working.  > / > Knock Knock. Exactly that has a long history. B > If you need examples then this newsgroup could give you an awful > experience ;-)  F HP just does not get it, you do not blow up the only bridge across theH river and tell the community that sometime down the road they will offerH a ferry service to get to the other side, but in the meantime they offerG a life jacket to help us swim. THE PROBLEM IS THAT VMS USERS ARE TRYING ? TO GET A FREIGHT TRAIN FROM ONE SIDE OF THE RIVER TO THE OTHER!   G (Sorry for the yelling, but I had a bunch of capital letters that I had B to use since HP refuses to use them on their web site. But that isG another pet peeve of mine, every time I visit a HP site that refuses to A use capital letters where English requires capital letters I feel 
 insulted.)     --   Peter Weaver Weaver Consulting Services Inc.  Canadian VAR for CHARON-VAX  www.weaverconsulting.ca    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 14:57:49 GMT ! From: Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com> A Subject: Re: DSN/WIS Retirement -> ITRC "Natural Language Search" 8 Message-ID: <phrql0541am0tf5f0f6endet20ofogf4jd@4ax.com>  1 On Fri, 1 Oct 2004 09:48:46 -0400, "Peter Weaver" . <WeaverConsultingServices@sympatico.ca> wrote:  H >(Sorry for the yelling, but I had a bunch of capital letters that I hadC >to use since HP refuses to use them on their web site. But that is H >another pet peeve of mine, every time I visit a HP site that refuses toB >use capital letters where English requires capital letters I feel >insulted.)   & T think that it's supposed to be kewl.   -- Nigel Barker Live from the sunny Cote d'Azur    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 13:19:34 -0400 From: norm.raphael@metso.comA Subject: Re: DSN/WIS Retirement -> ITRC "Natural Language Search" Q Message-ID: <OFA35F02CD.BA5ADA16-ON85256F20.005ECF0B-85256F20.005F401A@metso.com>   7 From:  HP User Group Online Advocacy October Newsletter  advocacy@hpuseradvocacy.org     B 2004 Annual Worldwide Survey of HP Customers Results Now Available    G The results of the 2004 Worldwide Survey of HP Customers show continued G improvements in customer perceptions of HP. For more than a decade, the G 2004 Worldwide Survey of HP Customers has been conducted by Interex and # sponsored by user groups worldwide.     A The 2004 survey had more than 7,000 customers participate from 82 J countries. 40% of responses came from EMEA, 34% from North America and 23%J from Latin America. Survey responses included participants from Encompass,2 HP Interex EMEA, Interex, ITUG and OpenView Forum.    ! 2004 Worldwide Survey Highlights:   F HP Customers want to see improvements in call center support, customer1 communication and contact, and reseller programs. K Customers continue to want more consistent and proactive communication from  HPD Approximately 65% of HP customers worldwide are satisfied with their overall sales experience. C Improvements in the sales administration (ease of ordering, on time ) delivery) were seen across all platforms. D Hardware and software quality continue to receive the highest survey satisfaction ratings.  *----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------*E * Customers reported increases in satisfaction with Web based support 2 including support via ITRC across all platforms. * *----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------*    - For the complete results of the survey visit:   http://www.hpcustomersurvey.org/  C brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon) wrote on 09/30/2004 05:26:12 PM:    > Peter Weaver writes:G > > I was just looking at the Fall 2004 HP Services Newsletter. It says  thatJ > > DSN/WIS "Will be moved into a retirement transition status" on JanuaryI > > 28, 2005. The replacement for the Interactive Text Search will be the I > > "Natural Language Search" in ITRC. Over the past several weeks I have I > > been working with our Silver TAM and the ITRC people because the ITRC G > > search simply does not work. For example, if you go to the ITRC and G > > limit your search to just include "Symptom/solution articles" under J > > "High performance systems" and enter the search term SMG$ERASE_DISPLAYJ > > you get 1,433 returns. Using WIS (with the subset of databases that weF > > have access to) I only get 13 hits for the same search, so I would guess E > > that someone who has full access to all WIS databases would get a G > > maximum of 30 to 40 hits, not 1,433. That would mean that well over ) > > 1,000 of the hits are false positive.  > > J > > During a conference call earlier this week we decided that the best weG > > could do would be to enter the search "+openvms +smg$erase_display"  thatD > > that returns 133 articles. Even 133 articles seems too high whenJ > > searching for the string SMG$ERASE_DISPLAY, and it is; of the first 20J > > returns only 3 actually contained the string "SMG$ERASE_DISPLAY." ThatK > > means for the first 20 returns I am only getting a 15% success rate. If I > > I only look at the first 4 articles returned the ITRC success rate is  > > 0%.  > > H > > It appears that any search involving the "$" or "_" characters wouldF > > also return many false positives because of the search engine they chose C > > to use. Can you imagine someone trying to use this tool to find  examplesI > > of using $CREATE_USER_PROFILE? Just now I got 12,686 returns for this C > > string., of the first 10 only one actually contained the string  > > "$CREATE_USER_PROFILE."  > > J > > I do not know how HP thinks they can go ahead and retire products when' > > the replacement is not yet working.  > > J > > If anyone else out there is as upset over this as I am then please letK > > the ITRC team know. The newsletter says that they can be reached at the I > > e-mail address "itrc_support" at the standard hp.com but the person I K > > have been dealing with directly is Michael Oravec, put a period between H > > the first and last name and append @hp.com to the end if you wish toF > > complain to him. Gold and Silver support customers may want to let their ' > > TAM's know that ITRC does not work.  > 1 > I do NOT like the ITRC search mechanism either.  > ? > They have made it too generic and I have found that I need to  reviewthrough a / > lot of JUNK to get to the information I need.  >  >  >  > J*o*h*n B*r*a*n*d*o*n  > VMS Systems Administrator , > firstname.lastname.spam.me.not@dalsemi.com   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 07:13:31 -0400' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> 5 Subject: RE: HP admits discontinued IA64 workstations R Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB45D4AF@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----4 > From: David Froble [mailto:davef@tsoft-inc.com]=20  > Sent: October 1, 2004 12:33 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 7 > Subject: Re: HP admits discontinued IA64 workstations  >=20  	 [snip ..]    >=20> > NO IT WAS NOT!  Number crunching on Alpha was better, but=20 > that isn't everything.=20 ? >   I've still got the tests I ran on the next to last N-VAX=20  > (VAXstation 4000=20 ; > model 90A) and an AlphaStation 200 4/233.  When string=20  > manipulitions are=20A > included, the (less than 100 MHz) VAX will match the 233 MHz=20  > Alpha.  The last=20 ? > N-VAX was even faster.  The first Alphas were a bit slower=20  > than 233 MHz I believe.  >=20  
 [snip....]  D AXP 150 was 150Mhz - and still runs the latest version of OpenVMS in/ 32MB of memory. Nice little test box in my lab.    :-)      >=20B > Reality check.  A MicroVAX 3500 was somewhere around 2.8 VUPs=20 > I believe.  The=20? > last N-VAX was at least 40 VUPs.  Let's keep it apples and=20  > apples, shall we?  >=20
 [snip ...]  E Check out the following url for *relative* performance of most of the E Alpha and VAX systems. Unfortunately, the AXP 150 is not listed here. ? http://h18002.www1.hp.com/alphaserver/performance/perf_tps.html    Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  $ "OpenVMS has always had integrity .. Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .."   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Oct 2004 07:40:33 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 5 Subject: Re: HP admits discontinued IA64 workstations 3 Message-ID: <PH6CGxwEVjqq@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <zNXpuc4tHmiw@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:  > K > I diagree that the presence of VAX users proves the OS migration to Alpha L > was an incompetent and reckless business decision.  That some people wouldM > not switch to Alpha is inevitable.  Nobody at DEC should have expected that M > everyone would move.  But everybody who needed 64 bit addressing on VMS has E > moved, and they would have been out of luck without the Alpha port.   E   Everybody that needed performance in a VMS system also moved, since E   the VAX didn't keep up.  That's independent of whether it couldn't, $   the simple fact is that it didn't.   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Oct 2004 13:09:12 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)5 Subject: Re: HP admits discontinued IA64 workstations + Message-ID: <2s537nF1glsl7U2@uni-berlin.de>   2 In article <b427d.12174$cO.8856@news.cpqcorp.net>,) 	John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com> writes:  > JF Mezei wrote:  >> Thomas Wirt wrote:  >>  G >>>or VMS customers to upgrade from VAX to Alpha seems unbelievable.  I G >>>will not say that VAX had run out of steam, but Alpha was WAY faster 7 >>>right away, than VAX could have been any time soon.   >>   >>  K >> It was often said that the first Alpha wasn'T actually faster than VAXen P >> available at that time. Remember that clock rate doesn't say the whole story. >>   >>   > ! > Who said that?  They are wrong.  > B > Looking back on my little list of Dhrystone results from Pascal: > D > 26-Mar-1996, VAXstation 4000 Model 96, OpenVMS VAX V6.2, 105932.2  > dhrystones/second  > @ > 20-Mar-1996, DEC 3000 Model 500, OpenVMS Alpha V6.2, 203252.0  > dhrystones/second  > ? > 20-Mar-1996, DEC 3000 Model 400, Digital UNIX V3.0, 224668.6   > dhrystones/second  > I > Now this is just one little benchmark (and not a particularly good one  C > at that) and not a scientific experiment, but whether it was the  < > hardware, the OS, or the compilers, the system was faster.   You're right about that.H      "Developed in 1984 by R.P. Wecker, Dhrystone is a benchmark programI       written in C or Pascal (and now even in Java) that tests a system's F       integer performance. The program is CPU bound, performing no I/O,       functions or operating system calls. "  F Doesn't really test the functionality of the machine in realworld use.G Just some kind of braging rights among geeks.  Sadly, it was benchmarks @ like this that fueled the notion that RISC was better than CISC.   bill      --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 01:10:07 -0400 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>G Subject: Re: Interbase on VMS (was Re: "Oracle RDB" licensing question) * Message-ID: <415CE6AF.30401@tsoft-inc.com>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:  g > In article <zhW6d.10024$Ag7.3467@newssvr15.news.prodigy.com>, "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> writes:  >  > $ >>Selling Rdb was clearly a mistake. >> > G > Consider Oracle Classic support on VMS.  It would not be there if DEC > > continued to use Rdb to compete with the Oracle Corporation. > I > To some customers, having the same database engine available on another I > operating system (even if they don't use it there) is an important need J > before purchasing.  Note how this proves the SQL standard has been fully> > undercut.  SQL is not SQL is not SQL.  The same for Codasyl. >   K I don't agree.  Sure, Oracle would make noises, but with the number of VAX  H systems in the 1980s, Oracle would support VMS.  No question in my mind.  , The problem was lack of balls on DEC's part.  O If RDB was available for most platforms, meaning Unix and windows, Larry might  Q not have a jet to hassle the locals with.  If DEC sold it for 1/2 of what Oracle  M charges, they might have been doing the buying, of Compaq, HP, and Microsoft.    Dave   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------   Date: 1 Oct 2004 07:07:41 -0700 . From: fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso)G Subject: Re: Interbase on VMS (was Re: "Oracle RDB" licensing question) = Message-ID: <f30679fb.0410010607.3838c5a5@posting.google.com>   j "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> wrote in message news:<zhW6d.10024$Ag7.3467@newssvr15.news.prodigy.com>...1 > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message  ( > news:a92dnc6xbsDoNcTcRVn-og@igs.net... > [snip] > >  > > M > > DEC's sale of RDB to Oracle has to rank up there amongst the more stupid   > > ofH > > their decisions, especially if the NT/unix port was to be imminentlyL > > released as was thought at the time. As I have previously written here,  > > DEC K > > could have spun-off the Rdb unit and sold 49% or more of the stock for   > > moreK > > money than they received from Oracle. The stock market would have been   > > very8 > > receptive at that time if the unix/NT port was real. > > N > > Another mistake was not ensuring that the deal with Oracle included an RdbL > > run-time license included with each copy of VMS (if memory serves, that  > > was - > > part of the NAS-200 and higher licences).  > >  > M > Selling Rdb was clearly a mistake.  I would also argue that porting Rdb to  O > Unix and NT was a mistake.  They should have been working on integrating Rdb  N > into VMS.  Digital had a 10 to 15 year head start on everyone else and they L > managed to squander it.  Now, Microsoft is catching up and you don't seem L > them talking about porting SQL Server to other operating systems, you see N > them shipping a free run-time license and integrating the database into the  > operating system.   E I agree ! But I dont know if HP want RDB back ! May be if Oracle give E it to other database company, ex. developers of Mimer, Cach, etc..., G HP could make an agreement with them to bundle RDB under OpenVMS paying K them back. It could be used as a  standard database/repository for some HP   products like OpenView, etc ...   E But Oracle and HP cant do all this job alone ! The integrators (VARs) 2 must have the ability to sell OpenVMS+RDB systems.   Regards    FC   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 10:14:50 -0400# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> G Subject: Re: Interbase on VMS (was Re: "Oracle RDB" licensing question) , Message-ID: <kvCdnerro8fH-8DcRVn-gA@igs.net>   Fabio Cardoso wrote:2 > "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> wrote in message; > news:<zhW6d.10024$Ag7.3467@newssvr15.news.prodigy.com>... 1 >> "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message ) >> news:a92dnc6xbsDoNcTcRVn-og@igs.net... 	 >> [snip]  >>>  >>> E >>> DEC's sale of RDB to Oracle has to rank up there amongst the more 
 >>> stupid of H >>> their decisions, especially if the NT/unix port was to be imminentlyE >>> released as was thought at the time. As I have previously written 
 >>> here, DEC F >>> could have spun-off the Rdb unit and sold 49% or more of the stock >>> for moreE >>> money than they received from Oracle. The stock market would have 
 >>> been very 8 >>> receptive at that time if the unix/NT port was real. >>> G >>> Another mistake was not ensuring that the deal with Oracle included E >>> an Rdb run-time license included with each copy of VMS (if memory  >>> serves, that was- >>> part of the NAS-200 and higher licences).  >>>  >>F >> Selling Rdb was clearly a mistake.  I would also argue that portingF >> Rdb to Unix and NT was a mistake.  They should have been working onG >> integrating Rdb into VMS.  Digital had a 10 to 15 year head start on D >> everyone else and they managed to squander it.  Now, Microsoft isG >> catching up and you don't seem them talking about porting SQL Server D >> to other operating systems, you see them shipping a free run-timeB >> license and integrating the database into the operating system. > G > I agree ! But I dont know if HP want RDB back ! May be if Oracle give G > it to other database company, ex. developers of Mimer, Cach, etc..., B > HP could make an agreement with them to bundle RDB under OpenVMS > payingD > them back. It could be used as a  standard database/repository for	 > some HP ! > products like OpenView, etc ...  > G > But Oracle and HP cant do all this job alone ! The integrators (VARs) 4 > must have the ability to sell OpenVMS+RDB systems.     It isn't going to happen.   E Oracle has Rdb customers by the balls, and HP doesn't have any balls.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 09:43:14 -0700 + From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com>OG Subject: Re: Interbase on VMS (was Re: "Oracle RDB" licensing question)n' Message-ID: <415D8922.8070409@MMaz.com>h   John Smith wrote:e   >Fabio Cardoso wrote:  > =20h >a2 >>"John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> wrote in message; >>news:<zhW6d.10024$Ag7.3467@newssvr15.news.prodigy.com>...  >>   =20 >>1 >>>"John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messagea) >>>news:a92dnc6xbsDoNcTcRVn-og@igs.net...e	 >>>[snip]" >>>     =20a >>>aE >>>>DEC's sale of RDB to Oracle has to rank up there amongst the more/
 >>>>stupid of-H >>>>their decisions, especially if the NT/unix port was to be imminentlyE >>>>released as was thought at the time. As I have previously writtenc
 >>>>here, DECtF >>>>could have spun-off the Rdb unit and sold 49% or more of the stock >>>>for moreE >>>>money than they received from Oracle. The stock market would haveO
 >>>>been veryn8 >>>>receptive at that time if the unix/NT port was real. >>>>G >>>>Another mistake was not ensuring that the deal with Oracle includedtE >>>>an Rdb run-time license included with each copy of VMS (if memoryo >>>>serves, that was- >>>>part of the NAS-200 and higher licences).e >>>> >>>>       =20 >>>>F >>>Selling Rdb was clearly a mistake.  I would also argue that portingF >>>Rdb to Unix and NT was a mistake.  They should have been working onG >>>integrating Rdb into VMS.  Digital had a 10 to 15 year head start on D >>>everyone else and they managed to squander it.  Now, Microsoft isG >>>catching up and you don't seem them talking about porting SQL ServerND >>>to other operating systems, you see them shipping a free run-timeB >>>license and integrating the database into the operating system. >>>     =20N >>>eG >>I agree ! But I dont know if HP want RDB back ! May be if Oracle give I >>it to other database company, ex. developers of Mimer, Cach=E9, etc..., B >>HP could make an agreement with them to bundle RDB under OpenVMS >>payingD >>them back. It could be used as a  standard database/repository for	 >>some HPt! >>products like OpenView, etc ...  >>G >>But Oracle and HP cant do all this job alone ! The integrators (VARs)t4 >>must have the ability to sell OpenVMS+RDB systems. >>   =20 >> >o >t >It isn't going to happen. > F >Oracle has Rdb customers by the balls, and HP doesn't have any balls. > =20c >yH Sure she does, Carly just isn't going in the direction that is 'best'=20# for VMS and Enterprise Computing...-    Barry   --=20-  > Barry Treahy, Jr                       E-mail: Treahy@MMaz.com> Midwest Microwave                          Phone: 480/314-1320> Vice President & CIO                         FAX: 480/661-7028                       =20a   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Oct 2004 06:50:38 -0700.* From: thierry.uso@wanadoo.fr (Thierry USO)# Subject: Jonas and Jboss on OpenVMSt= Message-ID: <79c022e7.0410010550.685123a7@posting.google.com>n   Hello,  > We are trying to port Jonas and Jboss (2 free J2EE applicationE servers) for OpenVMS. Jonas and Jboss use their own integrated Tomcat,F version. They start without problem on OpenVMS. But, test applicationsB fail in both environments in the same way. We have identify what'sA happened. Tomcat creates huge command (more than the limit of 255y> bytes) in order to compile on the fly using ant. The same testE applications work outside Jonas or Jboss with the Tomcat version froms the freeware CD.   There are two ways to try :nA   - replace the integrated Tomcat by the OpenVMS one in Jonas andp JbossoA   - adapt the integrated Tomcat in order that it behaves like thel OpenVMS oneo= The first way is difficult because we have to change a lot ofaB configuration files. We prefer to first try the second way. But we? need the sources of the OpenVMS Tomcat. Do you know where thesenE specific sources are ? Tomcat is a free software and the sources mustk. be available (the OpenVMS sources included) !!   Thanks for your help.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 13:54:55 +0200 . From: "Hans M. Aus" <aus@vim.uni-wuerzburg.de>@ Subject: Kyocera printer on two (2) IP OVMS 7.2-1 doesn't print.7 Message-ID: <aus-BA1FFC.13545501102004@news.cis.dfn.de>-  > Until now we've been able to print to a Kyocera printer queue 3 initialized with the systartup_vms.com DCL command:A  B $init/que/start/on=V99::"141...:9102"/proc=tcpip$telnetsym KYOCERA  4 The print queue remains busy (doesn't print), after:5 1)adding a second IP (10.60...) to the Alpha OpenVMS,e: 2)changing the Kyocera's address, gateway, etc to 10.60... 3)changing the DCL command to:  D $init/que/start/on=V99::"10.60...:9102"/proc=tcpip$telnetsym KYOCERA  & Rebooted the system after the changes.  5 The HP4xxx DCPS Queues work fine after the IP change.n  A Could I change the V99 node name to the Alpha's 10.60 IP address?.) $init/que/start/on="10.60...2"::"10.30...    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 11:40:28 +0100l+ From: Rodrigo Ventura <yoda@isr.ist.utl.pt>s Subject: light browser?o) Message-ID: <m31xgi7mcj.fsf@pixie.isrnet>t  C Hi. I've just installed the latest VMS version of mozilla in my DECeD 3000/500, but it is so slughish that is unusable (besides eating allC memory, and making me run AUTOGEN SAVPARAMS to ajust paging files).y  F Can anyone advise me a lightweight web browser for VMS? Maybe some oldA netscape (mosaic??) version that runs fairly well in oldish alpha 
 workstations?l   Thanks,    Cheers,    Rodrigot   -- o  : *** Rodrigo Martins de Matos Ventura <yoda@isr.ist.utl.pt>. ***  Web page: http://www.isr.ist.utl.pt/~yoda0 ***   Teaching Assistant and PhD Student at ISR:7 ***    Instituto de Sistemas e Robotica, Polo de Lisboa 4 ***     Instituto Superior Tecnico, Lisboa, PORTUGALH *** PGP fingerprint = 0119 AD13 9EEE 264A 3F10  31D3 89B3 C6C4 60C6 4585   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Oct 2004 08:02:38 -0500-; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)i Subject: Re: light browser?i3 Message-ID: <ZFQYpqKXjm74@eisner.encompasserve.org>g  W In article <m31xgi7mcj.fsf@pixie.isrnet>, Rodrigo Ventura <yoda@isr.ist.utl.pt> writes:e > E > Hi. I've just installed the latest VMS version of mozilla in my DECbF > 3000/500, but it is so slughish that is unusable (besides eating allE > memory, and making me run AUTOGEN SAVPARAMS to ajust paging files).r  C    What version of VMS did you load?  Older versions of VMS shippeda"    with mosaic, and IIRC netscape.  .    Yes, mozilla is a bit heavy for a 3000/500.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 13:34:29 GMT + From: "Daniel Gustafsson" <daniel@mimer.se>3 Subject: Re: light browser?m1 Message-ID: <F1d7d.4644$d5.36836@newsb.telia.net>e  9 "Rodrigo Ventura" <yoda@isr.ist.utl.pt> wrote in message (# news:m31xgi7mcj.fsf@pixie.isrnet...a >:E > Hi. I've just installed the latest VMS version of mozilla in my DECrF > 3000/500, but it is so slughish that is unusable (besides eating allE > memory, and making me run AUTOGEN SAVPARAMS to ajust paging files).c >tH > Can anyone advise me a lightweight web browser for VMS? Maybe some oldC > netscape (mosaic??) version that runs fairly well in oldish alphai > workstations?d >s	 > Thanks,t >e	 > Cheers,s >r	 > Rodrigot   Hello,  $ You can download Netscape V2.02 here> http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/ips/nsdownload.html   and Netscape V3.03 hereaH http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/ips/register_nav3j_alpha.htmlW http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/ips/ns_navigator_303goldj_download_page.html,   and ofcourse there is Lynx here 8 http://h71000.www7.hp.com/freeware/freeware50/lynx2-8-3/  H many new web-sites use newer features, you may have problems with fancy 	 sites. ;)-   Regards  Daniel Gustafsson3 Mimer SQL DevelopmentK% Excellent Unicode Collation support:  + http://developer.mimer.se/collations/chartsd   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 14:50:13 +0100.+ From: Rodrigo Ventura <yoda@isr.ist.utl.pt>s Subject: Re: light browser?e) Message-ID: <m3fz4y5yzu.fsf@pixie.isrnet>   L >>>>> "Bob" == Bob Koehler <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> writes:  D     Bob>    What version of VMS did you load?  Older versions of VMS0     Bob> shipped with mosaic, and IIRC netscape.  J Hobbyst 7.3-1. I think it includes some browser, but haven't tried it yet.  7     Bob>    Yes, mozilla is a bit heavy for a 3000/500.h  5 ...takes almost one minute to open the main window...i   Cheers,a   Rodrigon   -- w  : *** Rodrigo Martins de Matos Ventura <yoda@isr.ist.utl.pt>. ***  Web page: http://www.isr.ist.utl.pt/~yoda0 ***   Teaching Assistant and PhD Student at ISR:7 ***    Instituto de Sistemas e Robotica, Polo de Lisboao4 ***     Instituto Superior Tecnico, Lisboa, PORTUGALH *** PGP fingerprint = 0119 AD13 9EEE 264A 3F10  31D3 89B3 C6C4 60C6 4585   ------------------------------  * Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 14:27:09 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: light browser?s) Message-ID: <cjjpft$67h$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>-  _ In article <F1d7d.4644$d5.36836@newsb.telia.net>, "Daniel Gustafsson" <daniel@mimer.se> writes:o: >"Rodrigo Ventura" <yoda@isr.ist.utl.pt> wrote in message $ >news:m31xgi7mcj.fsf@pixie.isrnet... >>F >> Hi. I've just installed the latest VMS version of mozilla in my DECG >> 3000/500, but it is so slughish that is unusable (besides eating allvF >> memory, and making me run AUTOGEN SAVPARAMS to ajust paging files). >>I >> Can anyone advise me a lightweight web browser for VMS? Maybe some oldsD >> netscape (mosaic??) version that runs fairly well in oldish alpha >> workstations? >>
 >> Thanks, >>
 >> Cheers, >>
 >> Rodrigo >t >Hello,r >h% >You can download Netscape V2.02 hereO? >http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/ips/nsdownload.htmla >a >and Netscape V3.03 hereI >http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/ips/register_nav3j_alpha.htmltX >http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/ips/ns_navigator_303goldj_download_page.html >k  >and ofcourse there is Lynx here9 >http://h71000.www7.hp.com/freeware/freeware50/lynx2-8-3/I >iI >many new web-sites use newer features, you may have problems with fancy t
 >sites. ;)  J George Cook is still maintaining and updating Mosaic for VMS which you can obtain fromy  / http://wvnvaxa.wvnet.edu/vmswww/vms_mosaic.html   
 David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 07:33:05 -0700o# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>e Subject: Re: light browser? ( Message-ID: <opse631f06zgicya@hyrrokkin>  J On Fri, 1 Oct 2004 14:27:09 +0000 (UTC), <david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk> wrote:  I > In article <F1d7d.4644$d5.36836@newsb.telia.net>, "Daniel Gustafsson"  V > <daniel@mimer.se> writes:h; >> "Rodrigo Ventura" <yoda@isr.ist.utl.pt> wrote in messagey& >> news:m31xgi7mcj.fsf@pixie.isrnet... >>> G >>> Hi. I've just installed the latest VMS version of mozilla in my DEC,H >>> 3000/500, but it is so slughish that is unusable (besides eating allG >>> memory, and making me run AUTOGEN SAVPARAMS to ajust paging files).  >>>hJ >>> Can anyone advise me a lightweight web browser for VMS? Maybe some oldE >>> netscape (mosaic??) version that runs fairly well in oldish alphai >>> workstations?d >>>  >>> Thanks,h >>>t >>> Cheers,e >>>d >>> Rodrigoc >>	 >> Hello,r >>' >> You can download Netscape V2.02 here.A >> http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/ips/nsdownload.htmln >> >> and Netscape V3.03 hereK >> http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/ips/register_nav3j_alpha.htmltZ >> http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/ips/ns_navigator_303goldj_download_page.html >>" >> and ofcourse there is Lynx here; >> http://h71000.www7.hp.com/freeware/freeware50/lynx2-8-3/r >>J >> many new web-sites use newer features, you may have problems with fancy >> sites. ;) >RJ > George Cook is still maintaining and updating Mosaic for VMS which you   > canB
 > obtain from  >.1 > http://wvnvaxa.wvnet.edu/vmswww/vms_mosaic.html   : I gave up trying to run a browser under VMS, way too slow.   >t > David Webb > Security team leader > CCSS > Middlesex University >. >  >c       --  C Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/    ------------------------------   Date: 1 Oct 2004 17:44:50 +0100sK From: pmoreau@ath.cena.fr (Patrick MOREAU, CENA Athis, Tel: 01.69.57.68.40)h Subject: Re: light browser?l! Message-ID: <5xHPh6BN3H7G@sinead>a  N In article <opse631f06zgicya@hyrrokkin>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes: > < > I gave up trying to run a browser under VMS, way too slow. >   K ??? I have no performance problems even with Mozilla on a DS10 with 512 Mb.oL Mosaic is also fine, and lynx perfect on text only sites. If you are on VAX,O it's another problem, but Mosaic and lynx may be fine for non javascript sites.h   Patrick  --O ===============================================================================yN pmoreau@ath.cena.fr  (CENA)      ______      ___   _          (Patrick MOREAU)4 moreau_p@decus.fr (DECUS)       / /   /     / /|  /|J CENA/Athis-Mons FRANCE         / /___/     / / | / |   __   __   __   __  N BP 205                        / /         / /  |/  |  |  | |__| |__  |__| |  |N 94542 ORLY AEROGARE CEDEX    / /   ::    / /       |  |__| | \  |__  |  | |__|N http://www.ath.cena.fr/~pmoreau/            http://www.multimania.com/pmoreau/O ===============================================================================h   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 11:01:55 -0500e6 From: "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@mac.com.spamfooler> Subject: Re: light browser?nD Message-ID: <craigberry-17D81B.11015501102004@news.isp.giganews.com>  1 In article <F1d7d.4644$d5.36836@newsb.telia.net>,r-  "Daniel Gustafsson" <daniel@mimer.se> wrote::  J > > Can anyone advise me a lightweight web browser for VMS? Maybe some oldE > > netscape (mosaic??) version that runs fairly well in oldish alphae > > workstations?   > There was an announcement a while back of an update to Mosaic:  9 http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=04/02/19/1756505o   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 09:00:21 -0400# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>n) Subject: Re: MS to lose its patent on FAT , Message-ID: <TrWdnY78zvZ7ycDcRVn-rw@igs.net>   JF Mezei wrote:e > ##B > As part of a re-examination, the U.S. Patent Office has issued aD > preliminary rejection for a patent previously granted to Microsoft > for a Windows file format. > F > The agency ruled that, based on existing inventions at the time, theE > ideas behind the FAT (File Allocation Table) patent would have beennG > obvious and are therefore not subject to patent. Microsoft now has 90n= > days to respond to the filing and make its case for why the1 > patent should be upheld. > ## >rG > Does this mean that HP can now lower the price of VMS because part oftD > VMS revenus won't have to go to Microsoft becayuse VMS now has FAT* > partitions for the IA64 version of VMS ?    - Sure. Your Superdome/VMS Itanic will now costn $12,000,000.00 -                 0.40 -----------------. $11,999,999.60  & Will you be increasing your order now?   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 01:53:56 -0400 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>, Subject: Re: SHOW DEVICE/FILES with FORTRAN?, Message-ID: <415CF0F4.4050301@tsoft-inc.com>   John Brandon wrote:t   > David J Dachtera wrote:n > N >>>I have a group of users that were given full system priveleges in order forK >>>them to excute SHOW DEVICE /FILES and issue REPLY messages to users thaty1 >>>were in specific command procedures on a disk.I >>>TH >>I may have mis-interpreted the syntantics. Looks like you're trying toE >>identify users of specific DCL produres, regardless of the disks onlF >>which those procedures live, find their uername and/or terminal id.,: >>then use REPLY/USER or REPLY/TERM to send them messages. >> >>Did I gather correctly?s >> >  > On the button. > O > Prior, individual users had OPER, SYSPRV, WORLD, and a few others.  Not good.n >  > M >>>In an effort to remove these priveleges I have written an application that- >>>- >>uses >>K >>>$SNDJBC to execute a command procedure under a priveleged account.  ThiscN >>>procedure performs SHOW DEVICE /FILES and REPLY messages for the user group >>>  >>and5 >>/ >>>reports back the users that were identified.  >>>0E >>Without breaching confidences, can you explain why this needs to be 5 >>done? What is the root problem this seeks to solve?  >> > L > Users need to be kicked out of the application in order to upload new dataP > files into the work-stream.  Otherwise users would continue to use stale data. >  > G >>>The $SNDJBC application works but has one too many points of failure. >>>  >>What is it? How so?s >> > O > The installed application (w/priv) uses $SNDJBC to submit a command procedure-P > that is designed to identify those users using the specified command procedure3 > and send them a message to exit the application. n >  > 
 >>>and (IMHO)-N >>>is a sloppy way of acomplishing the task.  I would like to make this fairly >>>simple and stream-lined.o >>>OJ >>I don't know as that's even possible. "Stream-lined"? Likely a matter ofI >>opinion. Simple? I don't think this could ever be thought of as simple,o >>given what's involved. >> > O > Well think about having to SUBMIT, SYNCH, then READ an output file to get the @ > information when a single application can do it interactively. >  >  >  > J*o*h*n B*r*a*n*d*o*ns > VMS Systems Administratorr, > firstname.lastname.spam.me.not@dalsemi.com >   I Your task needs a reasonable solution.  The problem is that the required 2P information is in internal tables that can change in different versions of VMS, L thus any code to traverse the internal tables isn't guaranteed to be upward 9 compatible.  Therefore custom code isn't a good solution.   P This isn't a unique situation.  I've wished for a programmable interface to the J DIRECTORY command's capabilities.  Doing it yourself is a pain in the ass.  ! WARNING, WISH LIST ITEM IMMANENT!l  O For each version of VMS the developers must modify the code behind SHOW DEVICE eO /FILE if the internal tables change.  If they took this same code and provided fO some library routines and/or system services then users could write code using iC the routines/service(s) which would be compatible between versions.-  P I'm assuming that your procedures are a bit more capable than you've specified. O   For example, I've used the output of SHOW DEVICE /FILE as input to SEARCH in lH order to show only those file(s) that interest you, not the entire list.  J If I were to refine my request, I'd ask for a routine that would accept a M filespec mask with wildcard support and search for any hits.  Getting back a vM complete list may be too specific to do, so the concept of a 'context' which wO would return succeeding matches with each call might be appropriate.  However, gL the tables may be dynamic enough that such an implementation might not work.   Dave   -- e4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486u   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 10:27:29 +0200n9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> , Subject: Re: SHOW DEVICE/FILES with FORTRAN?' Message-ID: <415D14F1.25E7E213@aaa.com>y   John Brandon wrote:a > M > The user group responsible for triggering the event does this interactivelyf > through the use of a SYMBOL.  	 OK, fine.y  3 > There is not set time as to when this happens nor J > is there a set number of times this can happen during the day.  They mayL > trigger the event once a day to 10 or 20 times a day.  So yes, interactive > users must and do trigger it.    You are missing the point...   The users runs the proc, yes ?, Byt what is telling *them* to run the proc ?C Is it becuse they just happen to have 5 minutes free now and then ?3  D Some days they are more busy with other stuff and only runs it once,F other days they have more free 5 min periods, and runs it more often ?  3 There must be something you havn't told us about...t  	 Jan-Erik.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 10:36:58 +0200y9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>e, Subject: Re: SHOW DEVICE/FILES with FORTRAN?& Message-ID: <415D172A.5C290B7@aaa.com>   John Brandon wrote:r  L > Users need to be kicked out of the application in order to upload new dataP > files into the work-stream.  Otherwise users would continue to use stale data.  8 Why ot just build that check into the upload procedure ?  O > The installed application (w/priv) uses $SNDJBC to submit a command procedureUP > that is designed to identify those users using the specified command procedure2 > and send them a message to exit the application.   And then kick them out ?4 Or are you just waiting for them to exit themselfs ?  E Maybe use a separate file in the same directory as the "data" file(s)dB that signals to the DCL proc to re-open the data file when a laterF version is available ? The separate file would newer been opened, justE F$SEARCH'd for. Or get the cre-date using F$FILE_ATTRIBUTES and checkt that( against the currenty opened data file...  @ With the information given, there seems to be a number of easierF solution then to go to 3GL programming. But thenm there might still be- something missing from the picture... :-) :-)e  	 Jan-Erik.e   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Oct 2004 07:46:04 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) , Subject: Re: SHOW DEVICE/FILES with FORTRAN?3 Message-ID: <PIfHymTbuvTD@eisner.encompasserve.org>-  \ In article <04093021052367@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>, brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon) writes: > L > Users need to be kicked out of the application in order to upload new dataP > files into the work-stream.  Otherwise users would continue to use stale data.  F    So your looking for notification that a new version or new file hasF    been created?  Doorbell locks are great for this if you control all    the applications.  <    What I'd like to see added to VMS is an API that providesH    notification of change to a directory file.  There are locks involvedE    but they are not documented and I would not want to roll my own ino
    that area.o  D    We had to resort to a polling routine to do this when we receivedG    files via FTP, not wanting to write our own FTP server.  The need is2    more general.      Maybe an SIR for VMS 8.x?   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Oct 2004 07:51:32 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)h, Subject: Re: SHOW DEVICE/FILES with FORTRAN?3 Message-ID: <6iAcXF7bC0mF@eisner.encompasserve.org>   T In article <FtGHuJmW0aju@eisner.encompasserve.org>, briggs@encompasserve.org writes: > L > I assume that CALL LIB$SPAWN('SHOW DEVICE /FILES ' // device(1:device_l) ) > would be cheating?  C    Parsing the output of DCL commands is likely to create code with B    maintainability problems.  I hate it when I have to update code8    because it didn't originally follow a documented API.  G    But in this case there is no documented API for what the end user is E    trying to implement.  I hope there's a different solution that canm    be implemented.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 09:06:59 -0500V( From: brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon), Subject: Re: SHOW DEVICE/FILES with FORTRAN?1 Message-ID: <04100109065904@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>    Jan-Erik wrote:iN > > Users need to be kicked out of the application in order to upload new dataL > > files into the work-stream.  Otherwise users would continue to use stale > data.L > = > Why <n>ot just build that check into the upload procedure ?u  E I do not own the code - just mopping up the mess.  There are multiple O procedures that would need to be modified - outside of the scope of my project.   Q > > The installed application (w/priv) uses $SNDJBC to submit a command procedureeH > > that is designed to identify those users using the specified command > procedureu4 > > and send them a message to exit the application. >  > And then kick them out ?6 > Or are you just waiting for them to exit themselfs ? > G > Maybe use a separate file in the same directory as the "data" file(s)-D > that signals to the DCL proc to re-open the data file when a laterH > version is available ? The separate file would newer been opened, justG > F$SEARCH'd for. Or get the cre-date using F$FILE_ATTRIBUTES and check2 > that* > against the currenty opened data file... > B > With the information given, there seems to be a number of easierH > solution then to go to 3GL programming. But thenm there might still be/ > something missing from the picture... :-) :-)b  O I agree - there are simplier things - but then following the beaten path is not 	 as fun!      The process works as such... s  L A user receives updated informatin vie e-mail, phone, mail, etc., and entersN that data into their PC application.  Yep, external to the application on VMS.  / The user is then ready to upload data to VMS.  i  M The user initiates REPLY to all users in said application.  This is where the,P SHOW DEVICE/FILES and REPLY comes into play.  Here is where I use the $SNDJBC to( allow the user to interogate and notify.  F The user has the option to notify the user or kick the user out of the, application.   Kick the user out by $FORCEX.  O Once the all users are out the upload takes place and the user allows all usersaO to access the file.  There is a mechanism in place that once a user is out theyt, are locked out until the upload is complete.  L Yes, yes, yes, it is all very manual.  Very NOT automated.  I did not createO the code or the process - nor am I going to change that process.  My project issK to eliminate system level privelegs from users.  I have to identify why theO0 user needs a privelege and create a work-around.           J*o*h*n B*r*a*n*d*o*nl VMS Systems Administratoro* firstname.lastname.spam.me.not@dalsemi.com   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Oct 2004 09:12:10 -0500i- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) , Subject: Re: SHOW DEVICE/FILES with FORTRAN?3 Message-ID: <s4Bm68RacIZd@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  \ In article <04093021052367@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>, brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon) writes:  L > Users need to be kicked out of the application in order to upload new dataP > files into the work-stream.  Otherwise users would continue to use stale data.  J That sounds like an exact match for using the Lock Manager with a BlockingG AST.  This is also an ideal case for describing the root problem rather:8 than some detail of the previously considered approach !   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Oct 2004 09:15:36 -0500 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)O, Subject: Re: SHOW DEVICE/FILES with FORTRAN?3 Message-ID: <HlzZln9JI75z@eisner.encompasserve.org>h  W In article <415CF0F4.4050301@tsoft-inc.com>, David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:e  R > This isn't a unique situation.  I've wished for a programmable interface to the L > DIRECTORY command's capabilities.  Doing it yourself is a pain in the ass. > # > WARNING, WISH LIST ITEM IMMANENT!  > Q > For each version of VMS the developers must modify the code behind SHOW DEVICE tQ > /FILE if the internal tables change.  If they took this same code and provided  Q > some library routines and/or system services then users could write code using rE > the routines/service(s) which would be compatible between versions.t  H For some odd utilities like SHOW DEVICE/FILE creating a callable serviceI would take a lot of effort and require restructuring the existing utility 7 (you wouldn't want it to continue using separate code).-  I Consider the hoops through which $GETUAI/$SETUAI jump to preserve contextt in only 32 bits.   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Oct 2004 10:05:27 -05005 From: briggs@encompasserve.org, Subject: Re: SHOW DEVICE/FILES with FORTRAN?3 Message-ID: <AXxL$$bk28pi@eisner.encompasserve.org>:  Z In article <415c2413$1@cpns1.saic.com>, Mark Berryman <mark.berryman@mvb.saic.com> writes:B > Get a copy of PRIVDCL.  This would allow you to execute command J > procedures with elevated privilege and grant access to those procedures  > via rights identifier. > : > The users themselves need no elevated privileges at all.  6 I just had a look at PRIVDCL.  It's not at all secure.  C No insult intended.  Privileged LIB$SPAWN is a very very hard thingi
 to secure.  > PRIVDCL claims to do logical name spoof checking in subprocessD context.  But that's too late.  You need logical name spoof checkingE in calling context.  code.  PRIVDCL.C does not do that.  Accordingly,fC it is unsafe.  An attack would take less than 5 minutes to code up.a  F If you're using PRIVDCL to keep your honest users honest, that's fine.B But please, don't expect it to keep you safe from dishonest users.     	John Briggs   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 10:23:06 -0500e( From: brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon), Subject: Re: SHOW DEVICE/FILES with FORTRAN?1 Message-ID: <04100110230603@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>a   John Briggs wrote:8 > I just had a look at PRIVDCL.  It's not at all secure. > E > No insult intended.  Privileged LIB$SPAWN is a very very hard thing  > to secure. > @ > PRIVDCL claims to do logical name spoof checking in subprocessF > context.  But that's too late.  You need logical name spoof checkingG > in calling context.  code.  PRIVDCL.C does not do that.  Accordingly, E > it is unsafe.  An attack would take less than 5 minutes to code up.  > H > If you're using PRIVDCL to keep your honest users honest, that's fine.D > But please, don't expect it to keep you safe from dishonest users.    O I just took a look myself.  Sounded too good to be true - and I was questioninguN how the spawned process was being authorized...  Thanks for your input.  Saves
 me time...     J*o*h*n B*r*a*n*d*o*n  VMS Systems Administratora* firstname.lastname.spam.me.not@dalsemi.com   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Oct 2004 10:45:57 -0500-- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)m, Subject: Re: SHOW DEVICE/FILES with FORTRAN?3 Message-ID: <M3JNiGL0MYbi@eisner.encompasserve.org>s  T In article <AXxL$$bk28pi@eisner.encompasserve.org>, briggs@encompasserve.org writes:  H > If you're using PRIVDCL to keep your honest users honest, that's fine.D > But please, don't expect it to keep you safe from dishonest users.  C I have not seen the software in discussion, but on general security A principles, even having honesty is not sufficient.  Some user mayt@ be ordered by their boss to do "whatever it takes" to accomplishD the group's mission.  From the viewpoint of that user, taking actionE to subvert system security is a step in support of the mission of the- overall organization.l   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 12:50:44 +0100 - From: Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com>vY Subject: Sys$Startup:License_Check.Exe (revisited) - OPENVMS-ALPHA not authorized on thisa+ Message-ID: <2s4upuF1gmnapU1@uni-berlin.de>u   Gentle colleagues,  7 GS80 and GS140 both configured as 2-partition Galaxies.   > VMS 7.2-2 recently upgraded to VMS 7.3-1, all fully up-to-date7 patch kits installed.  Problem occurs in both versions.a  7 Intermittently (and following no identifiable pattern),.% we get the message at system startup:i  G %LICENSE-E-NOAUTH, DEC OPENVMS-ALPHA use is not authorized on this nodee  ? I recall a similar query posted on comp.os.vms by Jim McKinney,c# 28-Aug-2000, to which Hoff replied:l  F "I've seen one problem reported in this area, but it post-dated V7.1."  ? It looks to me like the error message is being generated by the = Sys$Startup:License_Check.Exe early on in the system startup.HC The message appears to be "cosmetic", since the system is perfectlya= usable (and OPENVMS-ALPHA is loaded, and sufficient) once then startup is complete.  D Anyone else seen anything similar ?  (Hoff, what was the "problem" ? Race condition ?)/  = Any fix for this annoying message (apart from putting a dummy 7 stub in place of License_Check.Exe that does nothing) ?t  	 Roy Omonds Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 08:04:56 -0700r3 From: Alan Frisbie <Usenet01REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com>a< Subject: Re: TCPIP$SMTP_SEND_FROM_FILE, what's its future???. Message-ID: <415D7218.2000309@Flying-Disk.com>   JF Mezei wrote:z > Alan Frisbie wrote:t  % >>> TCPIP$SMTP_PROHIBIT_USER_HEADERSs! >>> TCPIP$SMTP_SFF_REQUIRES_PRIV2  E >>Section 17.7 of which TCP/IP manual?   I just checked the CDROM doc2D >>set and the only chapter 17 I see is in the Management manual, and! >>that is about the "R" commands.r  O > <company> TCPIP Services For ____VMS manageremnt , Version 5.1, Order Number:> > AALU50LTE, January 2001.  : Ahhh, I see the problem: I was looking in the v5.3 manual.@ That sentence, while it exists in the v5.1 manual, was *removed*$ from the v5.3 manual (section 18.7).  ; Until I saw your note and went back to the old v5.1 manual,u; I was getting all my information on SFF from Ask The Wizardt7 #4492 on the HP website.   According to Ask The Wizard,r: SYSPRV is mandatory, which I believed.   Now I see that it9 is actually optional.   Or is it, since that sentence has>8 been removed from the manual?   What is the actual state8 of affairs for TCP/IP versions after v5.1?   I'm totally
 confused now.e   Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 01:17:08 -0400v( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>, Subject: Re: Tiny pickings for Itanium OEM's* Message-ID: <415CE854.90205@tsoft-inc.com>   JF Mezei wrote:t   > "Main, Kerry" wrote: > D >>In each case, Microsoft only dropped the platform after the vendor
 >>dropped it.i >> > N > Technically might be true, but you are naive if you believe that this is theN > real reason. In each case, Microsoft decided that the market just wasn't bigI > enough and because it wasn't seing potential, decided that the hardware L > manufacturer should pay for the windows port, at which point, the hardware$ > vendors decided to not pay for it. > O > Tell me this: does Intel pay Microsoft to have each Windows version ported toyN > 8086 ? It probably paid Microsoft to have the Ia64 port done though since it& > doesn't have great market potential. >   N Tell me this.  Where would MS be if they dropped x86, the first platform they E supported?  They can't drop x86 without an even larger platform base.   Q Maybe the Alpha NT market wasn't big enough because MS didn't allow it to be so,  L ie; MS Office not natively built on Alpha.  What good is windows without an  application?   Dave   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486m   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 06:47:11 -0400' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> , Subject: RE: Tiny pickings for Itanium OEM'sR Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB45D4AD@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----8 > From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei@spamnotteksavvy.com]=20  > Sent: October 1, 2004 12:27 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coml. > Subject: Re: Tiny pickings for Itanium OEM's >=20 > "Main, Kerry" wrote:B > > Course, when each of the HW vendors came out and publically=20 > announcedr? > > "we are done with this", then MS had little choice other=20h > than to spin< > > something like "due to limited market share, MS is no=20 > longer supporting  > > X platform". >=208 > No, the decision that "Windows on platform X is not=20 > strategic" was done by> > microsoft beforehand, at which point the manufacturer was=20 > given the option toa# > continue to pay for that version.t >=20? > Again, if it is Intel that writes all the code for Windows=20r > for the 8086, whyt > does Microsoft exist ? >=20= > Had Alpha been a success, I am quite sure that Microsoft=20l > would have completedH > the porting of applications and continues support of Windows on Alpha. >=20  F MS never did any porting of OS code to non-Intel platforms. It was the vendor who did this.=20c  H > But becayuse Digital/Compaq did not perform the originally anticipated; > marketing and pushing of Alpha, it is no surprise that=20  > Microsoft quickly lost4 > interest in Windows/alpha and threw the ball to=20 > Digital/Compaq's court, andM; > this probably happened in the last days of Digital, or=204 > perhaps Microsoft ? > waited for the Compaq takeover to see what Compaq would be=20n > doing, and as soon: > as accountant Curly filled the void, he probably told=20 > Microsoft not to expects5 > any growth in Alpha because it would be phased out.n >=20  D I am not saying the marketing of non-Intel Windows platforms (Alpha,F PowerPC and MIPS) could not have been much better, but this had little, to do with MS dropping support for these.=20  H If the platform vendor drops Windows, then what alternative did MS have?   Regardsx  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultante HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660d Fax: 613-591-4477' kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  $ "OpenVMS has always had integrity .. Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .."   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 07:00:50 -0400' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com>@, Subject: RE: Tiny pickings for Itanium OEM'sR Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB45D4AE@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----4 > From: David Froble [mailto:davef@tsoft-inc.com]=20 > Sent: October 1, 2004 1:17 AMe > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comr. > Subject: Re: Tiny pickings for Itanium OEM's >=20 > JF Mezei wrote:n >=20 > > "Main, Kerry" wrote: > >=20F > >>In each case, Microsoft only dropped the platform after the vendor > >>dropped it.u > >> > >=20B > > Technically might be true, but you are naive if you believe=20 > that this is the< > > real reason. In each case, Microsoft decided that the=20 > market just wasn't bigA > > enough and because it wasn't seing potential, decided that=204 > the hardware= > > manufacturer should pay for the windows port, at which=20c > point, the hardware & > > vendors decided to not pay for it. > >=20B > > Tell me this: does Intel pay Microsoft to have each Windows=20 > version ported toe> > > 8086 ? It probably paid Microsoft to have the Ia64 port=20 > done though since it( > > doesn't have great market potential. > >=20 >=20> > Tell me this.  Where would MS be if they dropped x86, the=20 > first platform they=20G > supported?  They can't drop x86 without an even larger platform base.n >=20B > Maybe the Alpha NT market wasn't big enough because MS didn't=20 > allow it to be so,=20 = > ie; MS Office not natively built on Alpha.  What good is=20/ > windows without an=20- > application? >=20 > Dave  G Actually, WORD was a native Windows ported product, but it was releasedcE with debug code (read perf killer) still in it. The other parts of MStE Office ran reasonably well using FX32 emulator (as I recall - part ofm/ the justification for not doing a native port).s  E Interesting enough, WORD on Alpha NT was faster than most PC's at the E time even with this code loaded. This was discussed many times in thea old Alpha NT newsgroups.=20   H The back office apps like SQL Server, Exchange etc were native ported byC MS (but not the OS), but you are correct that the lack of the fronta@ office apps like MS Office being available in native mode were a hindrance to Alpha NT WS sales.l  B As far as the black helicopter theories, well, I am sure they will continue for many years.=20a   Regardsn  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant1 HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660s Fax: 613-591-4477l kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  $ "OpenVMS has always had integrity .. Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .."   ------------------------------  * Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 12:23:39 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk, Subject: Re: Tiny pickings for Itanium OEM's) Message-ID: <cjji8b$46a$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>K  b In article <415CDC8E.AF8D55BD@spamnotteksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei@spamnotteksavvy.com> writes: >"Main, Kerry" wrote:aH >> Course, when each of the HW vendors came out and publically announcedH >> "we are done with this", then MS had little choice other than to spinJ >> something like "due to limited market share, MS is no longer supporting >> X platform".  >oK >No, the decision that "Windows on platform X is not strategic" was done bypN >microsoft beforehand, at which point the manufacturer was given the option to" >continue to pay for that version. > M >Again, if it is Intel that writes all the code for Windows for the 8086, whyu >does Microsoft exist ?w >iN >Had Alpha been a success, I am quite sure that Microsoft would have completedG >the porting of applications and continues support of Windows on Alpha.c >gG >But becayuse Digital/Compaq did not perform the originally anticipatedcN >marketing and pushing of Alpha, it is no surprise that Microsoft quickly lostL >interest in Windows/alpha and threw the ball to Digital/Compaq's court, andI >this probably happened in the last days of Digital, or perhaps Microsoft N >waited for the Compaq takeover to see what Compaq would be doing, and as soonN >as accountant Curly filled the void, he probably told Microsoft not to expect4 >any growth in Alpha because it would be phased out.  K As I recall Digital/Compaq was willing to pay for NT on Alpha because they .N hoped that Windows/64 which was being developed on Alpha since Itanium wasn't 6 ready would allow Alpha to increase it's market share.K Unfortunately Microsoft decided not to release Windows/64 until Itanium wasi ready.    
 David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 09:02:57 -0400# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>>, Subject: Re: Tiny pickings for Itanium OEM's, Message-ID: <x8Wdnf7vT5EcyMDcRVn-ig@igs.net>   David Froble wrote:w > JF Mezei wrote:p >u >> "Main, Kerry" wrote:  >>F >>> In each case, Microsoft only dropped the platform after the vendor >>> dropped it.a >>>h >>C >> Technically might be true, but you are naive if you believe thatdD >> this is the real reason. In each case, Microsoft decided that theG >> market just wasn't big enough and because it wasn't seing potential, D >> decided that the hardware manufacturer should pay for the windowsH >> port, at which point, the hardware vendors decided to not pay for it. >>F >> Tell me this: does Intel pay Microsoft to have each Windows versionD >> ported to 8086 ? It probably paid Microsoft to have the Ia64 port< >> done though since it doesn't have great market potential. >> >TA > Tell me this.  Where would MS be if they dropped x86, the first-F > platform they supported?  They can't drop x86 without an even larger > platform base. >mE > Maybe the Alpha NT market wasn't big enough because MS didn't allow G > it to be so, ie; MS Office not natively built on Alpha.  What good is"! > windows without an application?s    I My recollection is that Digital never pushed for Office on Alpha/NT. They 2 got SQL Server and compilers but that was about it   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 14:41:01 +0100oO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>n, Subject: Re: Tiny pickings for Itanium OEM's0 Message-ID: <cjjmpe$jnm$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Main, Kerry wrote: >>-----Original Message-----* >>From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy 1 >>[mailto:Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com] u" >>Sent: September 29, 2004 6:19 AM >>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Como. >>Subject: Re: Tiny pickings for Itanium OEM's >> > 
 > [Snip..] >  >  > C >>Its pretty clear that Intel are trying to sell Sun on the idea of>; >>porting to Itanium and not the other way around. And you 3 >>would be totally6 >>blind to have missed the reasons why Intel are keen. >>H >>Intel desperately need a platform that can shift volume, Windows isn't? >>doing it for them probably because MS are rather indifferent  
 >>to Itanium,eG >>Linux isn't doing it for them because Linux's value is its ability toBD >>run reasonably on commodity platforms and Itanium isn't remotely a >>commodity which leaves Sun.  >> >>	 >>Regardsw >>Andrew Harrison  >>
 >>>Regards >>>i >  > C > Come on Andrew, according to Sun's own statements, the Solaris on ; > Itanium port is essentially done and running in the labs.  >   > Well thats hardly new news, Solaris was one of the 3 main OS's< that were being ported to Itanium way back when. We had done1 a fair bit of work before the port got cancelled.s  H > The current situation between Sun and Intel appears to be posturing ofJ > who is going to anti up for the $'s required to take it to the next step" > i.e. which one will blink first. >   @ So who do you think needs Solaris on Itanium most, Sun or Intel.  @ Once you have worked that out and trust me it shouldn't take you< more than a microsecond then you also get a pretty good idea% about who is posturing and who isn't.r   regards= Andrew Harrison= > :-)= > 	 > Regards= >  > Kerry Main > Senior Consultantm > HP Services Canada > Voice: 613-592-4660_ > Fax: 613-591-4477k > kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom > (remove the DOT's and AT)  > & > "OpenVMS has always had integrity ..  > Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .." >  >    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 12:04:12 -0400' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> , Subject: RE: Tiny pickings for Itanium OEM'sR Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB45D4C0@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----, > From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy=203 > [mailto:Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com]=204 > Sent: October 1, 2004 9:41 AM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coma. > Subject: Re: Tiny pickings for Itanium OEM's >=20 > Main, Kerry wrote: > >>-----Original Message-----. > >>From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy=205 > >>[mailto:Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com]=20 $ > >>Sent: September 29, 2004 6:19 AM > >>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Como0 > >>Subject: Re: Tiny pickings for Itanium OEM's > >> > >=20 > > [Snip..] > >=20 > >=20  	 [snip ..]   B > Once you have worked that out and trust me it shouldn't take you> > more than a microsecond then you also get a pretty good idea' > about who is posturing and who isn't.0 >=20	 > regards  > Andrew Harrison<  E Actually, both need to build extra volume. Who needs it "more" really  does not matter.=20r  F I suspect that once the posturing settles down, some sort of deal will be made.  C Not sure if this is completely the case, but an interesting view onrB Sun's issues with Itanium are summarized in the following article:  ) http://www.techuser.net/index.php?id=3D46e( "Will Sun adopt Itanium?" [Apr 17, 2004]  	 [snip ..]l  G "Slowly but surely Itanium is going to achieve much higher volumes, andnF a more attractive price point. Intel has indicated that it is strivingF for price parity between Itanium and Xeon by 2007. If Intel is able toF achieve even 50 percent of its goals, Sun will be out of business. SunH needs to move over to Itanium, and the company needs to do that quickly.D However, recently a Sun executive indicated recently that Sun has noD plans to move to Itanium, and that the company believes Itanium is a@ technological dead-end. This is pure FUD; Sun executives are notE trust-worthy (as demonstrated by McNealy,) and their babblings should C not be taken seriously. Itanium is a huge threat for Sun, and Sun'stF management knows it. The company would like to move to Itanium, but is unable to do so.=20   H Sun's biggest problem in transitioning to Itanium is that the company isG very late to the party. Sun has no expertise in designing systems builtRC around the Itanium architecture, but its main competitors have beenoE designing Itanium based systems for a long time now. Consequently, ifkB Sun switches to Itanium, it will have to play second fiddle to itsG competitors. On top of that, coming up with a complete range of systems C built around the Itanium will require considerable time and expensem' which Sun can ill afford at this time."s   [snip..]  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultantv HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660a Fax: 613-591-4477o kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  $ "OpenVMS has always had integrity .. Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .."   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 09:15:05 -0700e# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>Y, Subject: Re: Tiny pickings for Itanium OEM's( Message-ID: <opse68rfjtzgicya@hyrrokkin>  I On Fri, 1 Oct 2004 12:04:12 -0400, Main, Kerry <kerry.main@hp.com> wrote:d   >b >> -----Original Message-----o* >> From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy1 >> [mailto:Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com]o  >> Sent: October 1, 2004 9:41 AM >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com/ >> Subject: Re: Tiny pickings for Itanium OEM'se >> >> Main, Kerry wrote:b >> >>-----Original Message-----l, >> >>From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy3 >> >>[mailto:Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com]b% >> >>Sent: September 29, 2004 6:19 AMi >> >>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com1 >> >>Subject: Re: Tiny pickings for Itanium OEM's  >> >>g >> >
 >> > [Snip..]t >> > >> > >  > [snip ..]- >>C >> Once you have worked that out and trust me it shouldn't take you ? >> more than a microsecond then you also get a pretty good ideat( >> about who is posturing and who isn't. >>
 >> regards >> Andrew Harrison >tG > Actually, both need to build extra volume. Who needs it "more" really  > does not matter. >oH > I suspect that once the posturing settles down, some sort of deal will
 > be made. >nE > Not sure if this is completely the case, but an interesting view on*D > Sun's issues with Itanium are summarized in the following article: >l) > http://www.techuser.net/index.php?id=46e* > "Will Sun adopt Itanium?" [Apr 17, 2004] >  > [snip ..]s > I > "Slowly but surely Itanium is going to achieve much higher volumes, anddH > a more attractive price point. Intel has indicated that it is strivingH > for price parity between Itanium and Xeon by 2007. If Intel is able toH > achieve even 50 percent of its goals, Sun will be out of business. SunJ > needs to move over to Itanium, and the company needs to do that quickly.F > However, recently a Sun executive indicated recently that Sun has noF > plans to move to Itanium, and that the company believes Itanium is aB > technological dead-end. This is pure FUD; Sun executives are notG > trust-worthy (as demonstrated by McNealy,) and their babblings shouldsE > not be taken seriously. Itanium is a huge threat for Sun, and Sun'sgH > management knows it. The company would like to move to Itanium, but is > unable to do so.  L Gee, Kerry, I don't see it that way at all.  It appears from my reading of   thelK press that Sun doesn't regard Itanium as a threat at all.  if anything, I  t	 think theoI biggest threat is to HP (-UX) that sun would port to Power PC.  Without  e the desktop,L and therefore the interest of Intel, it will become ever increasingly more  	 expensivetG for HP to shoulder the cost of the ongoing development.  I doubt that  r intel woulde spend money on it.   > J > Sun's biggest problem in transitioning to Itanium is that the company isI > very late to the party. Sun has no expertise in designing systems builteE > around the Itanium architecture, but its main competitors have beeniG > designing Itanium based systems for a long time now. Consequently, if-D > Sun switches to Itanium, it will have to play second fiddle to itsI > competitors. On top of that, coming up with a complete range of systemsOE > built around the Itanium will require considerable time and expense ) > which Sun can ill afford at this time."p >s
 > [snip..] >i > Kerry Main > Senior Consultantt > HP Services Canada > Voice: 613-592-4660  > Fax: 613-591-4477n > kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom > (remove the DOT's and AT)s >n& > "OpenVMS has always had integrity ..  > Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .."       -- dC Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 13:12:09 -0400' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com>h, Subject: RE: Tiny pickings for Itanium OEM'sR Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB45D4CF@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message------ > From: Tom Linden [mailto:tom@kednos.com]=20   > Sent: October 1, 2004 12:15 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comt. > Subject: Re: Tiny pickings for Itanium OEM's >=203 > On Fri, 1 Oct 2004 12:04:12 -0400, Main, Kerry=20r > <kerry.main@hp.com> wrote: >=20  	 [snip ..]u   >=20A > Gee, Kerry, I don't see it that way at all.  It appears from=20a > my reading of =20n > therB > press that Sun doesn't regard Itanium as a threat at all.  if=20 > anything, I =20e > think ther? > biggest threat is to HP (-UX) that sun would port to Power=20h > PC.  Without =20 > the desktop,= > and therefore the interest of Intel, it will become ever=20  > increasingly more =20n > expensive ? > for HP to shoulder the cost of the ongoing development.  I=20m > doubt that =20
 > intel would  > spend money on it. >=20  E Re: Press and Sun .. Yep, and from reading the negative press betweentH them over the last few years, you would never have believed to see ScottG M (Sun) and Steve Ballmer (Microsoft) shaking hands on new agreement ona" stage. But that happened right?=20  B Tough times sometimes requires ego's to get left in the back room.  F Of course IBM may also offer up some good incentives to Sun (and thoseF discussions have likely taken place or Sun would not have mentioned it in public).r  F Course, with Power5, Sun will have similar issues in that they have noG experience with designing Power5 systems and the AIX crowd will promote-A their OS as having the inside track and that AIX has been heavilyh4 optimized for the Power platform for many years now.  G And of course, the "Sun is abandoning SPARC.." fud will fly if Sun doesr6 either Itanium or Power5, so it should be interesting.  E I personally think Sun will stick with AMD and hope for the best, but 
 who knows?  A Lots of possibilities - next 6 months should be real interesting.o   :-)r  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultantc HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660l Fax: 613-591-4477t kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  $ "OpenVMS has always had integrity .. Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .."   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Oct 2004 07:10:44 -0700s. From: fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso) Subject: Re: Value of VAX ft810t= Message-ID: <f30679fb.0410010610.47512da9@posting.google.com>o  g "vax, 9000" <vax9000@gmail.com> wrote in message news:<cji1vj$sq7$1@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>...  > Alan E. Feldman wrote: > " > > How much is a VAX ft810 worth?K > It is hard to tell. I don't know how big vaxft 810 is. Big vax 6610s wereaJ > sold for around $50 on ebay (maybe because of the fact that they are bigM > and expensive to move). Small vax 4000 90/96s went to several handreds. ButAK > vaxft 810 is unique (fault tolerant), so somebody might want to pay more,p+ > or much more if resellers really want it.: >  > vax, 9000t >  > >  > > Who might want to buy one? > > $ > > We have one to part with with... > >  > > TF85 > > 20 disks (diax)a	 > > TF857l > >  > > Thanks.t    E Another suggestion:  a central site (no Ebay) where everyone here canb3 sell/buy/post informations about these old systems.    I suggest: OpenVMS.org :-)   Regardst   FC   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 10:20:36 -0400* From: "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca>B Subject: Why do I need Read access to a directory, to WRITE to it?3 Message-ID: <3Dd7d.2966$KF.22980@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>u  	 Consider:O  ; $ set proc/priv=bypass   ! I don't own the directory [POPO]6 $ dir/sec [-]popo.dir-   Directory DGSI_A1:[000000]  D POPO.DIR;1           1/69       30-SEP-2004 14:40:24.13  30-SEP-2004 14:43:02.57r'   [RMUELLER]            (RWED,RWED,,WE)    Total of 1 file, 1/69 blocks.   5 $ set proc/priv=noall    ! don't override protections  $ cr [popo]x.x= %CREATE-E-OPENOUT, error opening DGSI_A1:[POPO]X.X; as outputd? -RMS-E-PRV, insufficient privilege or file protection violationp  8 --------------------------------------------------------	 Now this:i   $ set proc/priv=bypass= $ set fil/pro=w=rwe [-]popo.dir    ! Add Read access to Worldc@ $ set proc/priv=noall                ! "become" an ordinary user $ cr [popo]x.x	 it works!c *Exit* $?   ------------------------  A Why do I need the Read privilege on the directory to write to it?s  0 What I would like, it to have a directory where:! a) Any user can create files intoa/ b) Unprivileged users cannot do a DIR *.* on itsK c) An unprivileged user can still do a DIR on a file he knows is there (notd *.* but an actual file name)  B It looks like I can do a) only if I set the Read protection on the$ directory, which breaks the b) rule.J The b) and c) rules work fine with protection set to W=WE (or just W=E for that matter)   Any help appreciated.sI Pls don't get into ACLs ! I just want to understand what's going on here.u   Thanks   -- t Syltrem    OpenVMS 7.3-1 + Oracle 8.1.7.4H http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS related web site, en franais)% ---zulu is not in my email address---t   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Oct 2004 10:18:44 -0500.- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)SF Subject: Re: Why do I need Read access to a directory, to WRITE to it?3 Message-ID: <ZLbWa6if$ffC@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  D Because that follows the VAX memory protection model, which was used% as the basis for VMS file protection.    ------------------------------   Date: 1 Oct 2004 04:50:07 -0700h. From: fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso) Subject: Re: WRQ OpenVMS Surveyh= Message-ID: <f30679fb.0410010350.40e07e29@posting.google.com>n  e David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<415CAB74.65A47CB6@comcast.net>..., > "Barry Treahy, Jr." wrote: > >  > > Hal Kuff wrote:r > > 8 > > >http://websurveyor.net/wsb.dll/12108/OpenVMS_04.htm > > >  > > >eI > > This isn't a survey, this is just gathering contact & marketing data!  > E > To me, it looks like an effort to establish the demographics of the*F > remaining OpenVMS user base, disguised as an effort to gather market > data for WRQ products. > J > Hhmmm... very clever. Perhaps these guys should be working for OpenVMS's8 > marketing department, eh? Show 'em a thing or three... >   ; There are two focal points for the OpenVMS admins nowadays:g   wwww.openvms.compaq.com5   andc  % www.openvms.org  <-- Our BigAdmin ;-)J  1 I think OpenVMS.org would turn in a sales channel * to the companies which sell OVMS products.  A i.e. WRQ, Execsoft, Raxco, Geneous, etc....  just search the net.u How is their marketshare ?    ; By the way, Raxco have the Support Suite which aggregates a ; lot of products. I believe that a lot of spreaded products l> should be joined in a CD/Box and selled through OpenVMS.org !      Regards-   FC   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.545 ************************