1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 02 Oct 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 547       Contents:) Re: AlphaServer DS10L - IDE disk question  Re: As seen in WSJ Re: As seen in WSJ  Re: cluster now working! hurray!8 Re: DSN/WIS Retirement -> ITRC "Natural Language Search"% Re: Hobbyist site licenses DOWN AGAIN , Re: HP admits discontinued IA64 workstations, Re: HP admits discontinued IA64 workstations Re: Jonas and Jboss on OpenVMS; Re: Kyocera printer on two (2) IP OVMS 7.2-1 doesn't print. ; Re: Kyocera printer on two (2) IP OVMS 7.2-1 doesn't print.  Re: light browser? Re: light browser? Re: light browser?# Re: SHOW DEVICE/FILES with FORTRAN?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 2 Oct 2004 01:07:30 -0700 ( From: shofu_au@yahoo.com.au (Mark Smith)2 Subject: Re: AlphaServer DS10L - IDE disk question= Message-ID: <8bdc0085.0410020007.28f93c9a@posting.google.com>   M stas <stas@amtel.ru> wrote in message news:<citvkv$nk0$1@e22.peterstar.ru>...   L > I am install 120GB maxtor, working OK under VMS 7.3-1 with latest patches.  = Any chance of getting the Maxtor model number for this drive?   0 BTW, what brand memory do you use in this DS10L?   Thanks   Mark   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Oct 2004 08:35:16 -0700 ( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) Subject: Re: As seen in WSJ < Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0410020735.f12d226@posting.google.com>   Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<cjjnra$k0u$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...  > Bob Ceculski wrote:  >  > > ? > > you are in left field as usual Andrew ... what will make or 5 > > break itanium as a viable chip are two things ...  > >  > > 1. OpenVMS2 > > 2. the ev8 alpha team to make itanium ev8 like > > C > > OpenVMS will make or break itanium ... that is the bottom lime!  > ? > Ignoring the patent absurdity of you accusing anyone of being : > out in the left field lets instead exhamine your the two+ > factors that you think will save Itanium.  > 
 > 1.	OpenVMS.  > A > OpenVMS systems revenues currently run at 50 million a quarter, 9 > even if every single sale converts to Itanium (which is > > unlikely) and even if that revenue then doubled, also pretty< > unlikely given HP's lack of interest in OpenVMS that would9 > only take the total systems revenues for OpenVMS to 400  > million a year.  > < > Many people think that Itanium is destined for the dustbin7 > now and that is based on a total market that is worth  > ~1.2 billion a year. > ; > So your best case scenario for OpenVMS would increase the ; > total systems revenues for itanium by 30%, this is a drop 9 > in the ocean, Itanium needs to double its revenues this < > year next year the year after that and the year after that" > and it will still be off target. >  > 2.	The EV8 team. > 7 > Some of the EV8 team have made it to Intel, most have 5 > however have left to joind AMD etc and to be honest 8 > whatever they do will be too late. The fate of Itanium; > will be decided in the next 18 months and any impact from 3 > the EV8 team will be well outside that timeframe.  > 1 > As always your responses reveal more about your & > wat you don't know that what you do. > 	 > Regards  > Andrew Harrison   = volume is not the key ... creating acceptance and proving the 7 chip is, and vms combined with the alpha team can prove 8 itanium viable which would lead to market acceptance and< increased sales on other platforms (even slowaris :)) ... so again you fail to get it ...   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 11:46:51 -0400# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>  Subject: Re: As seen in WSJ , Message-ID: <HomdnY6ubtzxUMPcRVn-iw@igs.net>   Bob Ceculski wrote: # > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy : > <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message. > news:<cjjnra$k0u$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>... >> Bob Ceculski wrote: >> >>> ? >>> you are in left field as usual Andrew ... what will make or 5 >>> break itanium as a viable chip are two things ...  >>>  >>> 1. OpenVMS2 >>> 2. the ev8 alpha team to make itanium ev8 like >>> C >>> OpenVMS will make or break itanium ... that is the bottom lime!  >>@ >> Ignoring the patent absurdity of you accusing anyone of being; >> out in the left field lets instead exhamine your the two , >> factors that you think will save Itanium. >> >> 1. OpenVMS. >>B >> OpenVMS systems revenues currently run at 50 million a quarter,: >> even if every single sale converts to Itanium (which is? >> unlikely) and even if that revenue then doubled, also pretty = >> unlikely given HP's lack of interest in OpenVMS that would : >> only take the total systems revenues for OpenVMS to 400 >> million a year. >>= >> Many people think that Itanium is destined for the dustbin 8 >> now and that is based on a total market that is worth >> ~1.2 billion a year.  >>< >> So your best case scenario for OpenVMS would increase the< >> total systems revenues for itanium by 30%, this is a drop: >> in the ocean, Itanium needs to double its revenues this= >> year next year the year after that and the year after that # >> and it will still be off target.  >> >> 2. The EV8 team.  >>8 >> Some of the EV8 team have made it to Intel, most have6 >> however have left to joind AMD etc and to be honest9 >> whatever they do will be too late. The fate of Itanium < >> will be decided in the next 18 months and any impact from4 >> the EV8 team will be well outside that timeframe. >>2 >> As always your responses reveal more about your' >> wat you don't know that what you do.  >>
 >> Regards >> Andrew Harrison > ? > volume is not the key ... creating acceptance and proving the 9 > chip is, and vms combined with the alpha team can prove : > itanium viable which would lead to market acceptance and> > increased sales on other platforms (even slowaris :)) ... so > again you fail to get it ...    @ The analog is that while the four remaining Space Shuttles are aK technological marvel, Rockwell (or whomever they merged with) isn't exactly K starting up the production line to bang them out like sausages to sell them K to commercial customers. I certainly don't see commercial customers banging 1 on Rockwell's door saying "Build me 12 of those".   F Intel would have to hold Svengali-like powers over the industry (well,I perhaps just HP given that they have bet the farm on Itanic) for the next L 4-6 years in order to 'prove' that Itanic is worth waiting for - if Intel is# prepared to stick it out that long.   J Meanwhile Intel will be busy competing with Power 5/6 and AMD64 with their@ own 32-64 hybrid so Intel doesn't get slaughtered in the market.    8 Sooner or later Intel will throw the towel in on Itanic.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 06:09:35 GMT $ From: "operagost" <operagost@og.com>) Subject: Re: cluster now working! hurray! ( Message-ID: <zCr7d.651$1g5.568@trnddc07>  9 "Rodrigo Ventura" <yoda@isr.ist.utl.pt> wrote in message  # news:m3vfdyxm3p.fsf@pixie.isrnet...  > J > My good-and-old DEC3000-based Alpha VMS cluster now works! My config is: >       two DEC3000/500 (64MB) >     three DEC3000/400 (32MB) > ; > The two DEC3000/500 have been working ok, with no serious C > problems. But after many attempts, the DEC3000/400 failed to boot D > properly, because of lack of memory. Since memory DIMMs have to beE > installed in sets of eight (!), and each one of them just had eight A > DIMMs installed, the only possible working configuration was to H > sacrifice two of the DEC3000/400, and install 8 DIMMs from one of them > in the third one.  > E > I've just did that, and the cluster is now working! Hurray! My sole D > purpose, besides having a lot of fun with learning VMS, was to getH > seti@home working in a cluster configuration. To start them all I justG > have to do a "@SETI SUBMIT 3", and three jobs are issued to a generic F > queue, which divides them among the three cluster members. Way cool! > D > Thanks for all the help you guys from the newsgroup gave me!!! You
 > were great!   $ Five DEC 3000s in one room? Must be: * Hot  * Loud  * I know my 3000-600 is both all by itself!    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 14:33:48 GMT 5 From: brad@rabbit.dnsalias.org (Bradford J. Hamilton) A Subject: Re: DSN/WIS Retirement -> ITRC "Natural Language Search" / Message-ID: <f%y7d.400428$8_6.368472@attbi_s04>   j In article <2s53m3F1g8d7kU1@uni-berlin.de>, "Peter Weaver" <WeaverConsultingServices@sympatico.ca> writes: !David J Dachtera wrote: !>... F !> They know it - they're sick and tried of hearing us bitch about it.F !> They are powerless to help. Juggernaut trundles on, out of control,@ !> destroying customer relationship after customer relationship. !>...  ! H !Yeah , I know. HP does not care about the customers at all, their focusE !is making sure that the Wall Street people think they care about the E !customers. I'm sure someone somewhere is looking at this and saying, F !"Our new tool returns 1,433 hits and old one only returns 13, doesn'tH !that show that we are providing more information to our customers?" ButH !when the first 20 returns only has 3 articles that are dealing with the6 !search then the tool is a complete and total failure. !   F I've been reading this thread with interest.  When the new tool becameO available, (months ago?) I tested it, using some queires that I had [previously M used in WIS.  I found that the new tool returned the same "hits", (along with > relevant WIZARD articles) and was much easier to use than WIS.  O I have not had the need to use the tool since then, but this morning, I tried a G search using tcpip$telnetsym - the first ten articles were all relevant M (including WIZARD references, again).  Some hits even included ucx$telnetsym.   C Perhaps someone at hp was listening, and has fixed the problem?	:-)    !-- 
 !Peter Weaver   !Weaver Consulting Services Inc. !Canadian VAR for CHARON-VAX !www.weaverconsulting.ca !  !   J __________________________________________________________________________A Bradford J. Hamilton                    "All opinions are my own" K bMradAhamiPltSon-at-coMmcAast.nPeSt     "Lose the MAPS, and replace '-at-'  0                                          with @"   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 04:43:37 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> . Subject: Re: Hobbyist site licenses DOWN AGAIN, Message-ID: <415E6A14.2D7EBC9D@teksavvy.com>   operagost wrote: > Orff> show sys /nopr /fuF > OpenVMS V7.3 on node ORFF 2-OCT-2004 02:03:13.93 Uptime 314 09:36:19  L in VMSland, all this means is that your power utility has supplied power for: 314 days without a big enough glitch to force a reboot :-)  E eg: Uptime in VMS is just a measure of a combination of power utility 6 reliability, and lack of changes/upgrades to the node.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 21:02:57 +0800  From: prep@prep.synonet.com 5 Subject: Re: HP admits discontinued IA64 workstations - Message-ID: <87zn352ry6.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   / JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:    > John Reagan wrote:  B >> The point I was trying to make was that JF quoted some univeralF >> statement that early Alphas were no better than the best VAX of the5 >> time.  In most cases, that isn't a true statement.   ? > Well, I was refering to the first Alpha that was commercially B > released. From what I had been told, it didn't outperform modern= > VAXes of that time by much for normal day to day VMS stuff.   F Who ever told you that was either full of it, or grossly exagerating aD issue that a very small number of cases with almost all manipulatingD single or small numbers of byte could be about the same speed on vax> or alpha. On most aplications, the alpha pounded the vax flat!   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 09:04:53 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> 5 Subject: Re: HP admits discontinued IA64 workstations ( Message-ID: <opse82yfn6zgicya@hyrrokkin>  B On Sat, 02 Oct 2004 21:02:57 +0800, <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote:  1 > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:  >  >> John Reagan wrote:  > C >>> The point I was trying to make was that JF quoted some univeral G >>> statement that early Alphas were no better than the best VAX of the 6 >>> time.  In most cases, that isn't a true statement. > @ >> Well, I was refering to the first Alpha that was commerciallyC >> released. From what I had been told, it didn't outperform modern > >> VAXes of that time by much for normal day to day VMS stuff. > H > Who ever told you that was either full of it, or grossly exagerating aF > issue that a very small number of cases with almost all manipulatingF > single or small numbers of byte could be about the same speed on vax@ > or alpha. On most aplications, the alpha pounded the vax flat! > I No, I think he is right, for a certain class of programs.  The 21064 cpu, E as you may recall didn't support byte and short int, including sign    extendedK moves, so, fo example, Oracle performed poorly, and as I understznd it, was K part of the reason for adding thos instructions.  Also, string handling and K decimal arithmetic was clearly inferior, plus the fact that the images were J two to three times larger meant more bandwidth was consumed, which may notH have been signifcant.  I always felt that the early Alphas suffered fromK lack of management oversight of the design, inadequate mission statement,    if	 you will.          --  C Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Oct 2004 05:23:56 -0700 * From: thierry.uso@wanadoo.fr (Thierry USO)' Subject: Re: Jonas and Jboss on OpenVMS < Message-ID: <79c022e7.0410020423.852f6ab@posting.google.com>  i "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> wrote in message news:<SOn7d.13480$KL.1348@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com>... : > "Thierry USO" <thierry.uso@wanadoo.fr> wrote in message 9 > news:79c022e7.0410010550.685123a7@posting.google.com... 
 > > Hello, > > B > > We are trying to port Jonas and Jboss (2 free J2EE applicationI > > servers) for OpenVMS. Jonas and Jboss use their own integrated Tomcat J > > version. They start without problem on OpenVMS. But, test applicationsF > > fail in both environments in the same way. We have identify what'sE > > happened. Tomcat creates huge command (more than the limit of 255 B > > bytes) in order to compile on the fly using ant. The same testI > > applications work outside Jonas or Jboss with the Tomcat version from  > > the freeware CD. > >  > > There are two ways to try : D > >  - replace the integrated Tomcat by the OpenVMS one in Jonas and	 > > Jboss D > >  - adapt the integrated Tomcat in order that it behaves like the > > OpenVMS one A > > The first way is difficult because we have to change a lot of F > > configuration files. We prefer to first try the second way. But weC > > need the sources of the OpenVMS Tomcat. Do you know where these I > > specific sources are ? Tomcat is a free software and the sources must 2 > > be available (the OpenVMS sources included) !! > >  > O > I think you can simply upgrade to OpenVMS V7.3-2 or later.  V7.3-2 increased  N > the DCL command line limits to 4095 bytes for interactive sessions and 8192  > bytes for command files.    B We have already upgraded to OpenVMS 7.3-2. The max size of the DCLF command line is still too small. The classpath is really big. We thinkA that the OpenVMS Tomcat solves this problem by creating temporary : logical names and we search to understand how it operates.   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Oct 2004 01:26:56 -0700 ( From: univms@bigfoot.com (Hamlyn Mootoo)D Subject: Re: Kyocera printer on two (2) IP OVMS 7.2-1 doesn't print.= Message-ID: <9cf7e06d.0410020026.74148b13@posting.google.com>   * Can you ping the Kyocera printer from V99?  m "Hans M. Aus" <aus@vim.uni-wuerzburg.de> wrote in message news:<aus-BA1FFC.13545501102004@news.cis.dfn.de>... @ > Until now we've been able to print to a Kyocera printer queue 5 > initialized with the systartup_vms.com DCL command:  > D > $init/que/start/on=V99::"141...:9102"/proc=tcpip$telnetsym KYOCERA > 6 > The print queue remains busy (doesn't print), after:7 > 1)adding a second IP (10.60...) to the Alpha OpenVMS, < > 2)changing the Kyocera's address, gateway, etc to 10.60...  > 3)changing the DCL command to: > F > $init/que/start/on=V99::"10.60...:9102"/proc=tcpip$telnetsym KYOCERA > ( > Rebooted the system after the changes. > 7 > The HP4xxx DCPS Queues work fine after the IP change.  > C > Could I change the V99 node name to the Alpha's 10.60 IP address? + > $init/que/start/on="10.60...2"::"10.30...    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 14:37:44 +0200 . From: "Hans M. Aus" <aus@vim.uni-wuerzburg.de>D Subject: Re: Kyocera printer on two (2) IP OVMS 7.2-1 doesn't print.7 Message-ID: <aus-F8E021.14374402102004@news.cis.dfn.de>   = In article <9cf7e06d.0410020026.74148b13@posting.google.com>, *  univms@bigfoot.com (Hamlyn Mootoo) wrote:  , > Can you ping the Kyocera printer from V99? >    Yes.   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Oct 2004 12:17:20 +0100 K From: pmoreau@ath.cena.fr (Patrick MOREAU, CENA Athis, Tel: 01.69.57.68.40)  Subject: Re: light browser? ! Message-ID: <FkSSNhZb6AYi@sinead>   q In article <CIVIrR9GyJpK@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: ^ > In article <415DC56F.BFE48759@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:; >> "Patrick MOREAU, CENA Athis, Tel: 01.69.57.68.40" wrote: O >>> ??? I have no performance problems even with Mozilla on a DS10 with 512 Mb.  >>  P >> 20 years ago, McGill University supported 150 users on an IBM 4341 (small 3701 >> architecture machine) with 8 megabytes of RAM.  > E >    23 years ago we supported an entire department on an 11/780 with F >    MB of RAM.  18 years ago we heard 1MB per user for All-in-1.  16? >    years ago we found we needed 12MB per user for DECwindows.  > @ >    Imaging how fast we could grind through software on today's3 >    processors if we wrote it in early 80's style.   N Sure, but when you manipulate 8 mpixels images with ImageMagick you need a bitO more memory (Imagemagick uses 16 bits/pixel , 8 Mpx = 48 Mb memory + undo cache  ) :-)   H In 1986 we were running 24 users on a VAX 11/785 with 4 Mb, but wee soonH upgraded to 8 and after to 16 Mb. When the two VAX 6210 came, with 32 Mb each, it was a dream ...   Patrick  --O =============================================================================== N pmoreau@ath.cena.fr  (CENA)      ______      ___   _          (Patrick MOREAU)4 moreau_p@decus.fr (DECUS)       / /   /     / /|  /|J CENA/Athis-Mons FRANCE         / /___/     / / | / |   __   __   __   __  N BP 205                        / /         / /  |/  |  |  | |__| |__  |__| |  |N 94542 ORLY AEROGARE CEDEX    / /   ::    / /       |  |__| | \  |__  |  | |__|N http://www.ath.cena.fr/~pmoreau/            http://www.multimania.com/pmoreau/O ===============================================================================    ------------------------------  * Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 12:27:14 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: light browser? ) Message-ID: <cjm6r2$14i$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>   \ In article <415DC29B.7FCFF6D7@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: >Bob Koehler wrote: F >>    What version of VMS did you load?  Older versions of VMS shipped% >>    with mosaic, and IIRC netscape.  > K >Mosaic can still be obtained for VMS. Look at the google archives for this P >group for an announcement of a improved version released in the last 12 months. > K >Another possibility is Firefox. This is the lightweight version of Mozilla K >which was just released. ( many large enterprises such as the mobile phone N >manufacturers gave a grant to mozilla to developed an unbloated browser which >could fit into phones).  $ Will the Firefox code build on VMS ?  
 David Webb Security Team Leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 12:24:21 -0400 ( From: Sam Hoblit <hoblitNOT@bnl.NOT.gov> Subject: Re: light browser? ' Message-ID: <cjmi4k$h57$1@news.bnl.gov>    JF Mezei wrote:   L > Another possibility is Firefox. This is the lightweight version of MozillaL > which was just released. ( many large enterprises such as the mobile phoneO > manufacturers gave a grant to mozilla to developed an unbloated browser which  > could fit into phones).   G Is Firefox going to be made available for VMS? Since it's supposedly a  E chopped-down version of Mozilla I would think, perhaps naively, that  F this would not be a very difficult thing to do. A modern light-weight  browser on VMS would be great.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 01:40:25 +0800  From: prep@prep.synonet.com , Subject: Re: SHOW DEVICE/FILES with FORTRAN?- Message-ID: <87u0td10ja.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   * brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon) writes:  C > Users need to be kicked out of the application in order to upload F > new data files into the work-stream.  Otherwise users would continue > to use stale data.  B Put an ALARM ACE on the exe, and wait for the alarm messages via aI mailbox. All documented stuff. When you have new data, queue an exclusive + lock on the file and wait for them to exit.   J In fact I don't see why you need to monitor the app at all, it is the DATAI that you must sync on, and for that, locks are it. Will work in a cluster  too...   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.547 ************************