1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 05 Oct 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 552       Contents: Re: As seen in WSJ Re: As seen in WSJ Re: As seen in WSJ Re: As seen in WSJ Re: As seen in WSJ Re: As seen in WSJ" Re: Free Random Password Generator
 Help with NFS  Re: Help with NFS  Re: light browser? Newbie DEBUG question M Re: Obsucure Inquier article about Intel mentions VMS (and not any other OS') M Re: Obsucure Inquier article about Intel mentions VMS (and not any other OS')  OpenVMS newbie Re: OpenVMS newbie Re: OpenVMS newbie RE: OpenVMS newbie Re: OpenVMS newbie Re: OpenVMS newbie Re: OpenVMS newbie Re: OpenVMS newbie Re: OpenVMS newbie
 PCL11 driver? - Technical Update this week (Friday) in Sweden 1 Re: Technical Update this week (Friday) in Sweden # Re: Tiny pickings for Itanium OEM's # Re: Tiny pickings for Itanium OEM's # Re: Tiny pickings for Itanium OEM's = Re: Why do I need Read access to a directory, to WRITE to it?  Re: WRQ OpenVMS Survey  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 17:07:05 -0400# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>  Subject: Re: As seen in WSJ , Message-ID: <JvGdnT1GQp7gJvzcRVn-pg@igs.net>  ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: > Bob Ceculski wrote: $ >> Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy; >> <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message / >> news:<cjjnra$k0u$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...  >> >>> Bob Ceculski wrote:  >>>  >>> @ >>>> you are in left field as usual Andrew ... what will make or6 >>>> break itanium as a viable chip are two things ... >>>> >>>> 1. OpenVMS 3 >>>> 2. the ev8 alpha team to make itanium ev8 like  >>>>D >>>> OpenVMS will make or break itanium ... that is the bottom lime! >>> A >>> Ignoring the patent absurdity of you accusing anyone of being < >>> out in the left field lets instead exhamine your the two- >>> factors that you think will save Itanium.  >>>  >>> 1. OpenVMS.  >>> C >>> OpenVMS systems revenues currently run at 50 million a quarter, ; >>> even if every single sale converts to Itanium (which is @ >>> unlikely) and even if that revenue then doubled, also pretty> >>> unlikely given HP's lack of interest in OpenVMS that would; >>> only take the total systems revenues for OpenVMS to 400  >>> million a year.  >>> > >>> Many people think that Itanium is destined for the dustbin9 >>> now and that is based on a total market that is worth  >>> ~1.2 billion a year. >>> = >>> So your best case scenario for OpenVMS would increase the = >>> total systems revenues for itanium by 30%, this is a drop ; >>> in the ocean, Itanium needs to double its revenues this > >>> year next year the year after that and the year after that$ >>> and it will still be off target. >>>  >>> 2. The EV8 team. >>> 9 >>> Some of the EV8 team have made it to Intel, most have 7 >>> however have left to joind AMD etc and to be honest : >>> whatever they do will be too late. The fate of Itanium= >>> will be decided in the next 18 months and any impact from 5 >>> the EV8 team will be well outside that timeframe.  >>> 3 >>> As always your responses reveal more about your ( >>> wat you don't know that what you do. >>>  >>> Regards  >>> Andrew Harrison  >> >>@ >> volume is not the key ... creating acceptance and proving the: >> chip is, and vms combined with the alpha team can prove; >> itanium viable which would lead to market acceptance and ? >> increased sales on other platforms (even slowaris :)) ... so  >> again you fail to get it ...  > < > Really so imagine how your theory will work with Intel the# > owners and developers of Itanium.  > = > Guess what an argument that follows the lines of it doesn't / > matter about volumes will play with Intel ???  > 9 > Remember Intel doesn't have a platform (or much of one) > > or services or OS an revenue stream that gets pulled through7 > by each Itanium chip that is sold. They do make money 8 > on support chipsets but HP, by far in away the largest= > OEM doesn't buy from them, they also make some money out of * > compilers but again HP supply their own. > 9 > So all on all what Intel is interested in is volume and ; > if they don't get it they won't be interested any longer.  > ? > But thanks for lettimg me know that I failed to get it again.     K Bob's really good at letting people have a piece of his mind. Trouble is he ? should have kept a little bit more than he has for his own use.    ------------------------------   Date: 4 Oct 2004 15:57:51 -0700 ( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) Subject: Re: As seen in WSJ = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0410041457.749d34dd@posting.google.com>    Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<cjrkht$7nr$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>... @ > >>>you are in left field as usual Andrew ... what will make or6 > >>>break itanium as a viable chip are two things ... > >>>  > >>>1. OpenVMS 3 > >>>2. the ev8 alpha team to make itanium ev8 like  > >>> D > >>>OpenVMS will make or break itanium ... that is the bottom lime! > >> > < > Really so imagine how your theory will work with Intel the# > owners and developers of Itanium.  > = > Guess what an argument that follows the lines of it doesn't / > matter about volumes will play with Intel ???  > 9 > Remember Intel doesn't have a platform (or much of one) > > or services or OS an revenue stream that gets pulled through7 > by each Itanium chip that is sold. They do make money 8 > on support chipsets but HP, by far in away the largest= > OEM doesn't buy from them, they also make some money out of * > compilers but again HP supply their own. > 9 > So all on all what Intel is interested in is volume and ; > if they don't get it they won't be interested any longer.  > ? > But thanks for lettimg me know that I failed to get it again.  > 	 > Regards  > Andrew Harrison   8 I said vms would be the spark that would lead to volume!7 Something has to spark interest before there are volume  sales ... hello!   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 19:24:11 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  Subject: Re: As seen in WSJ , Message-ID: <4161DB85.8F763946@teksavvy.com>   Bob Ceculski wrote: : > I said vms would be the spark that would lead to volume!9 > Something has to spark interest before there are volume  > sales ... hello!  I That something is called Marketing. And withough marketing, VMS stands no L chance at "high volume", no matter what platform it is on. Lack of marketingP forced Alpha and VMS to stay low volume and gave Compaq an excuse to kill Alpha.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 21:14:42 -0400# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>  Subject: Re: As seen in WSJ , Message-ID: <TsWdnUwZbvsaaPzcRVn-pg@igs.net>   Bob Ceculski wrote: # > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy : > <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message. > news:<cjrkht$7nr$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...A >>>>> you are in left field as usual Andrew ... what will make or 7 >>>>> break itanium as a viable chip are two things ...  >>>>>  >>>>> 1. OpenVMS4 >>>>> 2. the ev8 alpha team to make itanium ev8 like >>>>> E >>>>> OpenVMS will make or break itanium ... that is the bottom lime!  >>>> >>= >> Really so imagine how your theory will work with Intel the $ >> owners and developers of Itanium. >>> >> Guess what an argument that follows the lines of it doesn't0 >> matter about volumes will play with Intel ??? >>: >> Remember Intel doesn't have a platform (or much of one)? >> or services or OS an revenue stream that gets pulled through 8 >> by each Itanium chip that is sold. They do make money9 >> on support chipsets but HP, by far in away the largest > >> OEM doesn't buy from them, they also make some money out of+ >> compilers but again HP supply their own.  >>: >> So all on all what Intel is interested in is volume and< >> if they don't get it they won't be interested any longer. >>@ >> But thanks for lettimg me know that I failed to get it again. >>
 >> Regards >> Andrew Harrison > : > I said vms would be the spark that would lead to volume!9 > Something has to spark interest before there are volume  > sales ... hello!       GMAT Question:K Correctly answering this question permits you to squander every opportunity L your company ever had and run the technology company of your choice into the ground in 5 years or less.  K Suppose a company invented the best operating system in the world, and then I decided to build the best chip in the world to run it on, but they didn't + tell anyone about it -- would that company:   K a) Totally crush all competitors within weeks as customers flocked to their 
 o/s and chip?   L b) Scratch their asses and wonder why their o/s & chip wasn't outselling the competition?  L c) Figure that what they had invented & built was no good and look to get itI off the market as soon as possible by telling prospective customer that a  competitor had a better o/s?  L d) Look for a smarter competitor to buy their company only to wind up with aJ bunch of dolts who were more stupid than the company that came up with the  o/s and chip in the first place?  7 e) Attempt Options B through D inclusive a second time.   J f) Having been the buyer in Option E and having the benefit of seeing whatE has transpired over the years and had ample time to figure out how to L correct the situation, do absolutely nothing to advertise and market the o/s & chip?     1 If A,  you are taking the same medication as Bob.   $ If B, C, and/or D,  you are Digital.   If E,  you are Compaq.  H If F,  you are HP and have learned nothing -- you deserve to whither and die.   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Oct 2004 20:31:16 -0700 # From: dooleys@snowy.net.au (dooley)  Subject: Re: As seen in WSJ = Message-ID: <1ca82fc6.0410041931.3b172eb9@posting.google.com>   m bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote in message news:<d7791aa1.0410041457.749d34dd@posting.google.com>...  > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<cjrkht$7nr$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>... B > > >>>you are in left field as usual Andrew ... what will make or8 > > >>>break itanium as a viable chip are two things ... > > >>>  > > >>>1. OpenVMS 5 > > >>>2. the ev8 alpha team to make itanium ev8 like  > > >>> F > > >>>OpenVMS will make or break itanium ... that is the bottom lime! > > >> > > > > > Really so imagine how your theory will work with Intel the% > > owners and developers of Itanium.  > > ? > > Guess what an argument that follows the lines of it doesn't 1 > > matter about volumes will play with Intel ???  > > ; > > Remember Intel doesn't have a platform (or much of one) @ > > or services or OS an revenue stream that gets pulled through9 > > by each Itanium chip that is sold. They do make money : > > on support chipsets but HP, by far in away the largest? > > OEM doesn't buy from them, they also make some money out of , > > compilers but again HP supply their own. > > ; > > So all on all what Intel is interested in is volume and = > > if they don't get it they won't be interested any longer.  > > A > > But thanks for lettimg me know that I failed to get it again.  > >  > > Regards  > > Andrew Harrison  > : > I said vms would be the spark that would lead to volume!9 > Something has to spark interest before there are volume  > sales ... hello!8 The only thing that will build volume in Itanium systems5 is when they become cheaper than the competition when 8 running linux or windows. This point could arrive sooner9 than expected if/when there is a 64-bit version of vmware 6 for Itanium that can also run "legacy" 32-bit virtual % machines with acceptable performance. : One reason that "workstation" alphas were popular was that; the licensing for development tools was cheaper, DEC Compaq . and HP never seemed to realise that in the end! "no developers" = "no new users". 9 I don't know if this license model also applied to IA-64.  Phil   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Oct 2004 20:39:05 -0700 # From: dooleys@snowy.net.au (dooley)  Subject: Re: As seen in WSJ = Message-ID: <1ca82fc6.0410041939.6e462a95@posting.google.com>   s fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso) wrote in message news:<f30679fb.0409290342.2dd606f5@posting.google.com>... n > Keith Parris <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<Oql6d.11915$m86.8560@news.cpqcorp.net>... > > John Smith wrote: 4 > > > Hewlett-Packard Co. said it will stop offeringC > > > desktop workstations based on Intel's Itanium microprocessor.  > > : > > Business as usual, and zero impact on OpenVMS users... > > M > > We haven't had OpenVMS workstations for many years on Alpha, either, but  L > > that hasn't stopped people from putting graphics cards into servers (or F > > simply leaving in the graphics card which comes with every server F > > anyway) and making their own workstations. Folks can and will use K > > rx1600, rx2600, even rx4640 systems as workstations under OpenVMS, and  H > > they'll continue to be supported by OpenVMS Engineering in doing so. > I > Workstations would be an interesting choice for Industrial Automation,  @ > LIMS, etc ...but for me its important to have Itanium blades E > to run OpenVMS clusters. These blades could be used as workstations 3 > in a BladePC-like aproach. Any date of release ?   > , HPs current "blade pc" uses transmeta chips,( a Transmeta Efficeon TM8000 to be exact,6 is there going to be an opteron-like version of these? Phil   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Oct 2004 19:47:22 -0500 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) + Subject: Re: Free Random Password Generator 3 Message-ID: <EKOZ9J2es+im@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ` In article <BVb8d.3066$KF.24098@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>, "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca> writes:H > It's the wrong group for posting and besides, OpenVMS already has this > feature out of the box. ' > We're talking about a *real* OS here.   A And what makes you think the spammer does not treat newsgroups as  write-only ?   ------------------------------   Date: 04 Oct 2004 23:26:03 GMT) From: tomarsin2015@aol.com (Tomarsin2015)  Subject: Help with NFS: Message-ID: <20041004192603.15280.00001430@mb-m22.aol.com>   Hello I I am trying to mount a folder on a win2000 system but I get the following    TCPIP> show ver   5   Compaq TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS VAX Version V5.3 /   on a MicroVAX 3100-30/40 running OpenVMS V7.3   > TCPIP> mount dnfs1/host=cosmos/user=system/path="d:\downloads"K %TCPIP$DNFSMOUNT-E-MOUNTFAIL, error mounting _DNFS9:[SYS0.][000000]DNFS1.;1 ! -SYSTEM-F-TIMEOUT, device timeout  TCPIP>K When I was using 5.5-2 and UCX 3.X  I had no problem. According to the help N file the syntax of the command is correct. I should note that on the WIN2k boxN I am using XLINK NFS server. I can mount the folders on another WIN2K box or aJ Tru64 box but not on a VAX. Is there something I am missing - I even tried using GID/UID. Thanks  phillip    ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 00:42:21 +0000 (UTC), From: lewis@PROBE.MITRE.ORG (Keith A. Lewis) Subject: Re: Help with NFS. Message-ID: <cjsqld$ojj$1@newslocal.mitre.org>   tomarsin2015@aol.com (Tomarsin2015) writes in article <20041004192603.15280.00001430@mb-m22.aol.com> dated 04 Oct 2004 23:26:03 GMT: >HelloJ >I am trying to mount a folder on a win2000 system but I get the following >  >TCPIP> show ver > 6 >  Compaq TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS VAX Version V5.30 >  on a MicroVAX 3100-30/40 running OpenVMS V7.3 > ? >TCPIP> mount dnfs1/host=cosmos/user=system/path="d:\downloads" L >%TCPIP$DNFSMOUNT-E-MOUNTFAIL, error mounting _DNFS9:[SYS0.][000000]DNFS1.;1" >-SYSTEM-F-TIMEOUT, device timeout >TCPIP> L >When I was using 5.5-2 and UCX 3.X  I had no problem. According to the helpO >file the syntax of the command is correct. I should note that on the WIN2k box O >I am using XLINK NFS server. I can mount the folders on another WIN2K box or a K >Tru64 box but not on a VAX. Is there something I am missing - I even tried  >using GID/UID. Thanks >phillip  $ Here's an example that works for me:F mount dnfs6:[000000] /host=server3 /path="/vol/home"/auto/noadf/stru=5  - Our server3 is probably not Windoze though.     = /auto doesn't make the connection until you use the device.     < /noadf suppresses the creation of VMS-specific helper files.  0 --Keith Lewis              klewis {at} mitre.org> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Oct 2004 19:32:11 -0700 # From: dooleys@snowy.net.au (dooley)  Subject: Re: light browser? = Message-ID: <1ca82fc6.0410041832.227f9192@posting.google.com>   a JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message news:<415DC56F.BFE48759@teksavvy.com>... : > "Patrick MOREAU, CENA Athis, Tel: 01.69.57.68.40" wrote:O > > ??? I have no performance problems even with Mozilla on a DS10 with 512 Mb.  > O > 20 years ago, McGill University supported 150 users on an IBM 4341 (small 370 0 > architecture machine) with 8 megabytes of RAM. > L > Somehow, I find it extremely disconcerting that Mozilla requires that many0 > resources to display a page FOR A SINGLE USER. You know the old saying ! "give a programmer enough memory, # and they will use more than enough"  Phil   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 22:29:21 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  Subject: Newbie DEBUG question+ Message-ID: <416206E1.C0DBBE3@teksavvy.com>   2 Sorry for such a basic question, but I am stomped.  
 C program:   struct NAM mynam;    HOWEVER:  
 Inside debug, ; I can "examine mynam.nam$l_dir" and I get an address value.    But why can't I:$ examine/ascii:20 mynam.nam$l_dir  or# examine/ascii:20 *mynam.nam$l_dir   F both of which yield an "%DEBUG-E-INVCHAR, invalid character" error ???   I have an odd problem where:  B printf("Whole shabang=>%s", mynam.nam$l_dev) prints the whole fileI specification (the l_dev points to start opf the ESA buffer I specified.)    BUT:I printf("Just the device:%*.s", mynam.nam$b_dev, mynam.nam$l_dev) prints 8 & characters (the b_dev has value of 8).    , And the debugger is just very uncooperative.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 17:04:05 -0400# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> V Subject: Re: Obsucure Inquier article about Intel mentions VMS (and not any other OS'), Message-ID: <xNmdnZz8q4JXJ_zcRVn-iQ@igs.net>   Fabio Cardoso wrote:0 > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message* > news:<g-CdnSROmfrxMv3cRVn-jg@igs.net>... >> Alex Daniels wrote:- >>> http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=18848  >>>  >>> Alex >> >>F >> Haven't you heard....there'll never be another OpenVMS workstation.* >> HP has killed its Itanic workstations,. > D > As I said in another post: wait for the Itanium blades. May be you8 > can use them as workstations in a Blade-PC-like model.    I It's hard to carry a VMS blade server in a laptop case, and I don't think L the little laptop adapter on the back of an airline seat is going to provide) enough electricity for the server anyway.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 21:01:41 -0400 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>V Subject: Re: Obsucure Inquier article about Intel mentions VMS (and not any other OS'), Message-ID: <4161F275.2070700@tsoft-inc.com>   John Smith wrote:    > Fabio Cardoso wrote: > 0 >>"John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message* >>news:<g-CdnSROmfrxMv3cRVn-jg@igs.net>... >> >>>Alex Daniels wrote: >>> - >>>>http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=18848  >>>> >>>>Alex >>>> >>> F >>>Haven't you heard....there'll never be another OpenVMS workstation.* >>>HP has killed its Itanic workstations,. >>> D >>As I said in another post: wait for the Itanium blades. May be you8 >>can use them as workstations in a Blade-PC-like model. >> >  > K > It's hard to carry a VMS blade server in a laptop case, and I don't think N > the little laptop adapter on the back of an airline seat is going to provide+ > enough electricity for the server anyway.  >  >  >   P The itanic moves from the seas to the air.  Single user plugs their itanic into N adapter, puls so much power the engines cannot keep the aircraft flying.  The  itanic, it goes down well.  :-)    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------   Date: 4 Oct 2004 11:53:13 -0700 # From: Stitzman@gmail.com (stitzman)  Subject: OpenVMS newbie = Message-ID: <53cc0efd.0410041053.52e7fb89@posting.google.com>   E Ok, I'm a serious VMS newbie and have been thrown into the deep end.  E I'm not a VMS admin, I'm a consultant.  I'm supposed to know what I'm ? talking about, but of course I don't (yet).  I can read all the E manuals I want (and I have), but I don't have a system to play around F on to get the hang of VMS.  I do have some Unix background.  I'm not a= guru by any means, but I have a firm grasp of how Unix works.   A My first (of many) questions is about naming conventions and file ) structure.  I look at a VMS filename like D "PUB$:[ANONYMOUS.SDSCPUB.NEXT]README.TXT;1" and it makes no sense toC me.  I've read about file structure in the system manager's manual, B but without a system to play on I can't seem to grasp the concept.  E Also, what's with all the special characters ($ and @ specifically)?  B I see all sorts of documentation referencing sys$system, sys$root,C sys$startup etc., but I can't find anything that tells me what that  weird "$" is for.   D Thanks everyone for any help you can provide me.  I'm really working to learn VMS at least a little.    -Jon   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 19:40:40 GMT % From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>  Subject: Re: OpenVMS newbie < Message-ID: <YGh8d.6049$lq6.2735@newssvr16.news.prodigy.com>  1 "stitzman" <Stitzman@gmail.com> wrote in message  7 news:53cc0efd.0410041053.52e7fb89@posting.google.com... F > Ok, I'm a serious VMS newbie and have been thrown into the deep end.G > I'm not a VMS admin, I'm a consultant.  I'm supposed to know what I'm A > talking about, but of course I don't (yet).  I can read all the G > manuals I want (and I have), but I don't have a system to play around H > on to get the hang of VMS.  I do have some Unix background.  I'm not a? > guru by any means, but I have a firm grasp of how Unix works.  > C > My first (of many) questions is about naming conventions and file + > structure.  I look at a VMS filename like F > "PUB$:[ANONYMOUS.SDSCPUB.NEXT]README.TXT;1" and it makes no sense toE > me.  I've read about file structure in the system manager's manual, D > but without a system to play on I can't seem to grasp the concept. >   0 You can get an account on an OpenVMS machine at:   http://www.testdrive.compaq.com   F > Also, what's with all the special characters ($ and @ specifically)?D > I see all sorts of documentation referencing sys$system, sys$root,E > sys$startup etc., but I can't find anything that tells me what that  > weird "$" is for.   9 The $ is reserved for names created by Digital/Compaq/HP.   H @ is an indirection operator.  It basically means, execute this command 
 procedure.   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Oct 2004 19:41:55 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: OpenVMS newbie + Message-ID: <2sdnc3F1ioi5fU1@uni-berlin.de>   = In article <53cc0efd.0410041053.52e7fb89@posting.google.com>, & 	Stitzman@gmail.com (stitzman) writes:G > Ok, I'm a serious VMS newbie and have been thrown into the deep end.  G > I'm not a VMS admin, I'm a consultant.  I'm supposed to know what I'm A > talking about, but of course I don't (yet).  I can read all the G > manuals I want (and I have), but I don't have a system to play around H > on to get the hang of VMS.  I do have some Unix background.  I'm not a? > guru by any means, but I have a firm grasp of how Unix works.  > C > My first (of many) questions is about naming conventions and file + > structure.  I look at a VMS filename like F > "PUB$:[ANONYMOUS.SDSCPUB.NEXT]README.TXT;1" and it makes no sense toE > me.  I've read about file structure in the system manager's manual, D > but without a system to play on I can't seem to grasp the concept.   Think of it like this:  -     PUB$:/ANONYMOUS/SDSCPUB/NEXT/README.TXT:1 -     ^^^^                                   ^^ D     This is a logical (a system            This is a version number.I     defined variable) pointing             Under VMS if you change a file M     to a disk device.                      previous versions can still exist.    > G > Also, what's with all the special characters ($ and @ specifically)?  D > I see all sorts of documentation referencing sys$system, sys$root,E > sys$startup etc., but I can't find anything that tells me what that  > weird "$" is for.   * I'll leave this one for someone else.  :-) > F > Thanks everyone for any help you can provide me.  I'm really working! > to learn VMS at least a little.  >  > -Jon   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 15:47:18 -0400# From: "Dan Allen" <dallen@nist.gov>  Subject: RE: OpenVMS newbie : Message-ID: <JFEPKAPBPMDFDBOIANGDIEHGFKAA.dallen@nist.gov>   > -----Original Message-----, > From: stitzman [mailto:Stitzman@gmail.com]( > Sent: Monday, October 04, 2004 2:53 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  > Subject: OpenVMS newbie  >  > F > Ok, I'm a serious VMS newbie and have been thrown into the deep end.G > I'm not a VMS admin, I'm a consultant.  I'm supposed to know what I'm A > talking about, but of course I don't (yet).  I can read all the G > manuals I want (and I have), but I don't have a system to play around H > on to get the hang of VMS.  I do have some Unix background.  I'm not a? > guru by any means, but I have a firm grasp of how Unix works.  > C > My first (of many) questions is about naming conventions and file + > structure.  I look at a VMS filename like F > "PUB$:[ANONYMOUS.SDSCPUB.NEXT]README.TXT;1" and it makes no sense toE > me.  I've read about file structure in the system manager's manual, D > but without a system to play on I can't seem to grasp the concept. > F > Also, what's with all the special characters ($ and @ specifically)?D > I see all sorts of documentation referencing sys$system, sys$root,E > sys$startup etc., but I can't find anything that tells me what that  > weird "$" is for.   O Why it's for '$' silly ;-) In this context it's just a character in a pathname. O Traditionally VMS has used $ in names to avoid name collisions with user names.  Doesn't aways work out. F The @ is most commonly used in front of a filename to tell the Command6 Interpreter (shell) that the file is a command script:  - $ @login.com  "executes" my login.com script.     A VMS "file name" uses the form:  >   device:[directory]file.ext;version. So in your example above     device -> PUB$'   directory -> [ANONYMOUS.SDSCPUB.NEXT]    file -> README
   ext->TXT   version->1  M VMS also makes very heavy use of a mechanism called "logical names".  You can J think of this as kind of a #define in C.  It's likely that PUB$ above is aN logical name.  A typical physical device name in VMS is somethink like DRA0: (J Device type DR, A controller, logical unit 0).  To make the physical setupK transparent to the user a logical name is commonly defined by the sysadmin:   
  PUB$ -> DRA0   N So when we get some extra money and we upgrade our disks from DR to DK devices' the user never knows. We just redefine:   
  PUB$ -> DKA0   J Logical names can be used for directories as well and there's all sorts ofN iterative possibilites as well.  There's also system wide, user local, process local, search lists...N Very sophisticated and a bit confusing at first exposure.  Very nifty however.   > F > Thanks everyone for any help you can provide me.  I'm really working! > to learn VMS at least a little.  >   N Hopefully someone on this list will have a pointer to a freebie site where youP can putter about.  But if you're brand spankin new and you have a task requiringO any significant development on a VMS system you're at the base of a pretty tall  hill...   M The good news is you're about to meet one of the finest (yeah Bob I know: THE  FINEST) OS's ever written.   Good luck and enjoy,   Dan    > -Jon >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 16:02:39 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  Subject: Re: OpenVMS newbie , Message-ID: <4161AC54.27C99289@teksavvy.com>   stitzman wrote: + > structure.  I look at a VMS filename like D > "PUB$:[ANONYMOUS.SDSCPUB.NEXT]README.TXT;1" and it makes no sense    the nomenclature is:  A node::device:[dir.subdir.subdir.subdir]filename.extension;version   3 when working on same node, the "node::" is omitted.   K Also, you will often find virtual device name which are logical names which < translate either to a real device, or to a device/directory.  ; for instance, you could have USER  point to "dua2:[users.]" A and then USER:[jdoe]  would physically refer to dua2:[users.jdoe]   M the command SHOW LOGICAL USER would tell you this. In the above example, PUB$ M could either be a logical name pointing to a device/directory (called "rooted   logical") or to a device itself.  J Using logical names makes a lot fo sense since it allows you to move stuffM around without changing programs/procedures since you just redefine where the  logocal points to.  6 The less obvious one is the root of a device: [000000]   for instance: dua2:[000000] 6 or USER:[000000]  (which would point to dua2:[users] )  , To iterate thorugh directories, you use ...   M for instance dir dua2:[000000...] will list all files on that device starting  from the root.  F > Also, what's with all the special characters ($ and @ specifically)?D > I see all sorts of documentation referencing sys$system, sys$root,E > sys$startup etc., but I can't find anything that tells me what that  > weird "$" is for.     I The $ in logical names and symbols *generally* refers to names which were : defined by the operating system (eg: reserved to Digital).  K In a well behaved system, you would have all VMS native logical names using J the $ and any customer defined logical names using the _ instead of the $.K This way, when you see a logiocal name or symbol, you know if it comes from  Digital or from your own site.  F The "@" is in fact an input redirection command. During an interactiveC session, entering @filename.ext will cause commands to be read from G "filename.ext" instead of from the terminal. (in other words: execute a N command procedure (equivalent of a .BAT file in DOS, or shell script in Unix).  M You may wish to tyype HELP at the $ prompt, and look into the topics that are L in lowercase, such as "Hints" and others. TYhey provide valuable information" about VMS names, date formats etc.   ------------------------------   Date: 04 Oct 2004 21:13:06 GMT+ From: "Doc." <doc.cypher@openvms-rocks.com>  Subject: Re: OpenVMS newbie 7 Message-ID: <Xns9578EC771CADDdcovmsrox@212.100.160.123>   C %NEWS-I-NEWMSG, stitzman wrote in news:53cc0efd.0410041053.52e7fb89  @posting.google.com   F > Thanks everyone for any help you can provide me.  I'm really working! > to learn VMS at least a little.   J You're welcome to open a free account on the Deathrow Cluster.  telnet to K manson.vistech.net and log in as NEWUSER, password NEWUSER.  That'll allow  I you to set up an account.  We've got an online BBS using DEC Notes where  I you can read up on other newbie's first steps with VMS as well as asking   your own questions.      Doc. --  G OpenVMS:     Eight out of ten hackers prefer *other* operating systems. G http://www.openvms-rocks.com    Deathrow Public-Access OpenVMS Cluster.    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 21:50:52 GMT % From: Rob Brown <mylastname@gmcl.com>  Subject: Re: OpenVMS newbie E Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0410041548590.32394@localhost.localdomain>   G Accounts are free at telnet://eisner.encompasserve.org/ (a VMS system)  : as well.  EXTENSIVE notes conferences going back 20 years.   --    B Rob Brown                        b r o w n a t g m c l d o t c o mA G. Michaels Consulting Ltd.      (866)438-2101 (voice) toll free! 6 Edmonton                         (780)438-9343 (voice)5                                   (780)437-3367 (FAX)e2                                   http://gmcl.com/   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 19:12:45 -0500?6 From: "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@mac.com.spamfooler> Subject: Re: OpenVMS newbienD Message-ID: <craigberry-769726.19124504102004@news.isp.giganews.com>  = In article <53cc0efd.0410041053.52e7fb89@posting.google.com>, %  Stitzman@gmail.com (stitzman) wrote:   G > Ok, I'm a serious VMS newbie and have been thrown into the deep end. bG > I'm not a VMS admin, I'm a consultant.  I'm supposed to know what I'myA > talking about, but of course I don't (yet).  I can read all theeG > manuals I want (and I have), but I don't have a system to play around H > on to get the hang of VMS.  I do have some Unix background.  I'm not a? > guru by any means, but I have a firm grasp of how Unix works.-  3 There's the start of a VMS for UNIX people wiki at -  F http://magnonel.guild.net/~schwern/cgi-bin/unix2vms/index.cgi?HomePage  , You will definitely want to read the FAQ at:  ! http://www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq/   ? and you may find the OpenVMS Primer for System Managers useful:>  ' http://h71000.www7.hp.com/training.htmlr   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 20:00:24 -0500@2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> Subject: Re: OpenVMS newbiee+ Message-ID: <4161F228.7497F9CA@comcast.net>m   stitzman wrote:i > F > Ok, I'm a serious VMS newbie and have been thrown into the deep end.G > I'm not a VMS admin, I'm a consultant.  I'm supposed to know what I'meA > talking about, but of course I don't (yet).  I can read all thetG > manuals I want (and I have), but I don't have a system to play around H > on to get the hang of VMS.  I do have some Unix background.  I'm not a? > guru by any means, but I have a firm grasp of how Unix works.  > C > My first (of many) questions is about naming conventions and filee+ > structure.  I look at a VMS filename likeiF > "PUB$:[ANONYMOUS.SDSCPUB.NEXT]README.TXT;1" and it makes no sense toE > me.  I've read about file structure in the system manager's manual,aD > but without a system to play on I can't seem to grasp the concept. > F > Also, what's with all the special characters ($ and @ specifically)?D > I see all sorts of documentation referencing sys$system, sys$root,E > sys$startup etc., but I can't find anything that tells me what that  > weird "$" is for.e > F > Thanks everyone for any help you can provide me.  I'm really working! > to learn VMS at least a little.r >  > -Jon  $ See the links in my sig, especially:. http://www.djesys.com/vms/mentor/vms_path.html  G For "$", the convention is (supposed to be) that logical names supplied E by OpenVMS or by layared products (compilers, special utilities, etc)>C use the "$" character, while user-established names use "_". You're ? supposed to be able to know if it's a system logical name or ane% application or user logical that way.   B The "@" sign is used to invoke a DCL (command language) procedure.6 Again, see the support pages via the links in my sig.   < Also, make friends with the HELP command. HELP HELP and HELP: INSTRUCTIONS will give you a good idea of how to use HELP.   Welcome to OpenVMS!p  9 You're taking your first steps into "grown up" computing!    -- > David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:e" http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/a   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 16:53:22 -0400l2 From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com> Subject: PCL11 driver?/ Message-ID: <41618002.17195.18C44217@localhost>   E I'm trying to upgrade a VAX system running V4.7 to V5.5-2.  It has a k< XPA0 device.  According to the following, it's a PCL device:  >   http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/732FINAL/6048/6048pro_008.html  < I was able to find out that the PCL driver is an "optional" 
 component:  4   http://h18000.www1.hp.com/info/SP2623/SP2623PF.PDF  E Anyone have this driver (XPDRIVER) kicking around?  If you have only  - tape, I now own a 9-track tape drive...   :-)   
 --Stan Quaylet Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------- Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363o3 8572 North Spring Ct., Pickerington, OH  43147  USA-0 stan-at-stanq-dot-com       http://www.stanq.com   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Oct 2004 12:03:22 -0700 1 From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski).6 Subject: Technical Update this week (Friday) in Sweden= Message-ID: <857e9e41.0410041103.56a9d662@posting.google.com>$  D If you are planning on attending you may want to register as soon asE possible (today).  From what I have been told they are going to close ( registration because they are very full.  
 Warm Regards,  Suet   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 21:16:23 +0200.9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>o: Subject: Re: Technical Update this week (Friday) in Sweden' Message-ID: <4161A187.17301FFD@aaa.com>u   Sue,: At the time when you posted that, it was already past 9 in9 the evening. I don't think that many are able to register ) in the remaining aprox three hours... :-)   
 Best Regards,s	 Jan-Erik.g) (Who seriously *is* thinking of going...)t   Sue Skonetski wrote: > F > If you are planning on attending you may want to register as soon asG > possible (today).  From what I have been told they are going to closeg* > registration because they are very full. >  > Warm Regards,e > Sue    ------------------------------   Date: 4 Oct 2004 16:08:45 -0700o( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski), Subject: Re: Tiny pickings for Itanium OEM's= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0410041508.6b3726bd@posting.google.com>w  q Andrew Harrison <andrew_remove_.harrison@s_u_n.com> wrote in message news:<cjruh4$d5u$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...- > < > And at the same time Sun has embraced AMD, taken 1st place@ > in the AMD64 market from HP and IBM started to win significantA > amounts of anuity software revenues with JES and JDS and signede> > a deal with Fujitsu that increases SPARC's competitive ness. > < > So while Sun's market share has declide because of the dot9 > com crash and the decline in spending in Sun's two mainh< > markets Finance and Telco Sun has not sat on its corporate > hands and done nothing.. > : > Many analysts now conclude that Sun is making a credible7 > attempt at re-inventing themselves, the same analysts-5 > are rather less happy about the state of the nationr > at HP. > 	 > Regardso > Andrew HarrisonR  < ultrafart is dead ... and grabbing hold of the x86 oopsteron9 boat anchor is a short term solution ... we all know whatc happens to anchors ... :)o   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 20:58:29 -0400# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> , Subject: Re: Tiny pickings for Itanium OEM's, Message-ID: <PvmdnV9NoKC6afzcRVn-gQ@igs.net>   Bob Ceculski wrote:OF > Andrew Harrison <andrew_remove_.harrison@s_u_n.com> wrote in message. > news:<cjruh4$d5u$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>... >>= >> And at the same time Sun has embraced AMD, taken 1st placeyA >> in the AMD64 market from HP and IBM started to win significant>B >> amounts of anuity software revenues with JES and JDS and signed? >> a deal with Fujitsu that increases SPARC's competitive ness.n >>= >> So while Sun's market share has declide because of the dota: >> com crash and the decline in spending in Sun's two main= >> markets Finance and Telco Sun has not sat on its corporates >> hands and done nothing. >>; >> Many analysts now conclude that Sun is making a credible 8 >> attempt at re-inventing themselves, the same analysts6 >> are rather less happy about the state of the nation	 >> at HP.h >>
 >> Regards >> Andrew Harrison >d> > ultrafart is dead ... and grabbing hold of the x86 oopsteron; > boat anchor is a short term solution ... we all know what  > happens to anchors ... :)     K Yup. They get hauled up out of the muck, get washed down, ready for re-use,l and the ship sails on.  :-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 20:57:29 -0400 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>, Subject: Re: Tiny pickings for Itanium OEM's, Message-ID: <4161F179.9080604@tsoft-inc.com>   Bob Ceculski wrote:e  s > Andrew Harrison <andrew_remove_.harrison@s_u_n.com> wrote in message news:<cjruh4$d5u$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...' > < >>And at the same time Sun has embraced AMD, taken 1st place@ >>in the AMD64 market from HP and IBM started to win significantA >>amounts of anuity software revenues with JES and JDS and signedh> >>a deal with Fujitsu that increases SPARC's competitive ness. >>< >>So while Sun's market share has declide because of the dot9 >>com crash and the decline in spending in Sun's two maina< >>markets Finance and Telco Sun has not sat on its corporate >>hands and done nothing.n >>: >>Many analysts now conclude that Sun is making a credible7 >>attempt at re-inventing themselves, the same analysts 5 >>are rather less happy about the state of the natione >>at HP. >>	 >>Regardsv >>Andrew Harrisoni >> > > > ultrafart is dead ... and grabbing hold of the x86 oopsteron; > boat anchor is a short term solution ... we all know what  > happens to anchors ... :)i >   G The 'boob hint-of-the-day', AMD64 is a failure.  I just can't wait for e tomorrow's words of wishdom.   -- o4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road1 Vanderbilt, PA  15486@   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Oct 2004 14:36:08 -0700a. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)F Subject: Re: Why do I need Read access to a directory, to WRITE to it?= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0410041336.346da222@posting.google.com>U  a JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message news:<416078B1.16210A06@teksavvy.com>...uO > Another possibility would be to just setup a queue where users would "submit"rV > their files to the queue and have a symbiont process which then processes the files.  T Or you could go for whatever's behind the box next to the beautiful Carol Maryl. :-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 19:48:29 -0500y2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> Subject: Re: WRQ OpenVMS Surveya* Message-ID: <4161EF5D.AA94194@comcast.net>   Phil wrote:i > 8 > "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> wrote in message# > news:415C3064.8060909@MMaz.com...e > > Hal Kuff wrote:( > >c8 > > >http://websurveyor.net/wsb.dll/12108/OpenVMS_04.htm > > >l > > >uI > > This isn't a survey, this is just gathering contact & marketing data!o > >i4 > They are probably doing their sums on whether it's% > worth it to port vaxlink to itaniumm > Phil  7 Why not just translate the Alpha executable (ALPHALK2)?    -- l David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/w   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.552 ************************