1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 07 Oct 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 557       Contents: Re: As seen in WSJ Re: As seen in WSJ Re: Backup & NFS Re: Backup & NFS Re: DCL-like syntax standard, Re: DECwindows security: access to port 6000, Re: DECwindows security: access to port 6000 Re: Disabling source routing! Re: Disk corruption and Pathworks  EVA vs. bunch of MSA?  Re: EVA vs. bunch of MSA?  Re: EVA vs. bunch of MSA?  Re: EVA vs. bunch of MSA?  Re: EVA vs. bunch of MSA? / Re: HP Lands More than 200 Sun Server customers / Re: HP Lands More than 200 Sun Server customers / Re: HP Lands More than 200 Sun Server customers / Re: HP Lands More than 200 Sun Server customers / Re: HP Lands More than 200 Sun Server customers / Re: HP Lands More than 200 Sun Server customers / Re: HP Lands More than 200 Sun Server customers / Re: HP Lands More than 200 Sun Server customers / Re: HP Lands More than 200 Sun Server customers / Re: HP Lands More than 200 Sun Server customers / Re: HP Lands More than 200 Sun Server customers / Re: HP Lands More than 200 Sun Server customers / Re: HP Lands More than 200 Sun Server customers  Lolita in China O Re: Obsucure Inquier article about Intel mentions VMS (and not any  other  OS') H Re: Obsucure Inquier article about Intel mentions VMS (and not any otherN Re: Obsucure Inquier article about Intel mentions VMS (and not any other  OS')M Re: Obsucure Inquier article about Intel mentions VMS (and not any other OS') P Re: Obsucure Inquier article about Intel mentions VMS (and not any other OS') otL Re: Obsucure Inquier article about Intel mentions VMS (and not anyother OS') OpenVMS Freeware Deadline  Re: OpenVMS newbie Re: OpenVMS newbie Re: OpenVMS newbie! Re: OpenVMS non-advertising today  Re: OT: Sun's fighting chance  Re: Tel. Co. Sys. Op.? Re: Tel. Co. Sys. Op.? Re: Tel. Co. Sys. Op.?$ Re: Update Multiple decnet databases$ Re: Update Multiple decnet databases Re: vms and fibre channel  Re: What is HP anyway? Re: What is HP anyway?P Re: www.hp.com/go... URL links (was: Re: Maximum file size, FAQ v. "Guide to Ope  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 7 Oct 2004 04:29:46 -0700 ' From: icerq4a@spray.se (David Svensson)  Subject: Re: As seen in WSJ = Message-ID: <734da31c.0410070329.6aad4a94@posting.google.com>   q Andrew Harrison <andrew_remove__harrison@sun__.com> wrote in message news:<ck0p0i$73q$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...  > David Svensson wrote:  > F > > No, I cannot justify it. It is in fact wrong, by intent. Andrew isH > > selective about truth and I did a test here to see if he would catchE > > this. He seems to be able to spread other things (not Sun things) 3 > > unjustified without getting any responses here.  > >  > 7 > Really so how about providing some examples of this ?   E You said most of the EV8 team have gone to AMD with no justification. F I say I know this is not true, I cannot point you to any proof of thisF on the web, but my source is a friend who in turn is a friend to a EV8
 developer.  D There are many examples where you subtly favor Sun in many respects.   > > And, it is fun to tease. ;)  > . > Its even more fun to call someones bluff. :)  ' We have different views of what is fun.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 15:15:30 +0100 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>  Subject: Re: As seen in WSJ 0 Message-ID: <ck3j24$552$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   David Svensson wrote: s > Andrew Harrison <andrew_remove__harrison@sun__.com> wrote in message news:<ck0p0i$73q$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...  >  >>David Svensson wrote:  >> >>E >>>No, I cannot justify it. It is in fact wrong, by intent. Andrew is G >>>selective about truth and I did a test here to see if he would catch D >>>this. He seems to be able to spread other things (not Sun things)2 >>>unjustified without getting any responses here. >>>  >>7 >>Really so how about providing some examples of this ?  >  > G > You said most of the EV8 team have gone to AMD with no justification. H > I say I know this is not true, I cannot point you to any proof of thisH > on the web, but my source is a friend who in turn is a friend to a EV8 > developer. >   ? No I said that some of the Alpha team went to Sun and some went = to AMD. You may be right that all the EV8 Alpha team ended up . at Intel who cares it doesn't refute my point.    F > There are many examples where you subtly favor Sun in many respects. >  >   @ It depends what you mean by subtly favouring Sun. I work for Sun? and I would hope that my postings reflect an unsubtle favouring  of Sun.   @ Does that matter well only if you can show that my postings were wrong, can you ????    >>>And, it is fun to tease. ;) >>. >>Its even more fun to call someones bluff. :) >  > ) > We have different views of what is fun.   	 Obviously    Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  * Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 15:04:44 +0000 (UTC). From: Dale Dellutri <ddelQQQlutr@panQQQix.com> Subject: Re: Backup & NFS , Message-ID: <ck11ic$mfn$1@reader2.panix.com>  L On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 12:40:31 +0200, JOUKJ <joukj@hrem.stm.tudelft.nl> wrote:E > I'm trying to backup NFS mounted filesystems to tape using the VMS   > backup command.  > I get some weird errors:  N > %BACKUP-E-OPENDIR, error opening directory TARANTELLA$ROOT:[HOME.JOUKJ.PLOT]$ > -SYSTEM-W-NOSUCHFILE, no such fileI > %BACKUP-E-OPENIN, error opening TARANTELLA$ROOT:[HOME.JOUKJ]PLOT.DIR;1  
 > as input$ > -SYSTEM-W-NOSUCHFILE, no such file  D > The error ocuurs when the NFS mounted file systems are physically H > located on a PC with Fedora core 2. (File systems located on an Alpha ( > with Redhat 7.x seem to be unaffected)K > The files which "cannot be found" are always directory files, and always   > the same directory files.   @ > I'm running OpenVMS 7.3-2 with HP-TCP/IP-services V5.4 - ECO 2  6 > Anybody any idea where to look to solve the problem:? >       is it HP--TCP/IP so that I can use my service contract? : >       or is the problem more likely to be Fedora core 2?  > This looks like a permissions or symbolic link problem.  What  is the output of   ls -l /home/joukj/plot and    ls -ld /home/joukj/plot C on the tarantella FC2 system?  How does the output differ from the  ? same commands pointing to directory files that do not have the   problem?   --  7 Dale Dellutri <ddelQQQlutr@panQQQix.com> (lose the Q's)    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 15:54:55 +0200 ' From: JOUKJ <joukj@hrem.stm.tudelft.nl>  Subject: Re: Backup & NFS * Message-ID: <ck3hrf$iqo$1@news.tudelft.nl>   Dale Dellutri wrote:N > On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 12:40:31 +0200, JOUKJ <joukj@hrem.stm.tudelft.nl> wrote: > E >>I'm trying to backup NFS mounted filesystems to tape using the VMS   >>backup command.  >>I get some weird errors: >  > N >>%BACKUP-E-OPENDIR, error opening directory TARANTELLA$ROOT:[HOME.JOUKJ.PLOT]$ >>-SYSTEM-W-NOSUCHFILE, no such fileI >>%BACKUP-E-OPENIN, error opening TARANTELLA$ROOT:[HOME.JOUKJ]PLOT.DIR;1  
 >>as input$ >>-SYSTEM-W-NOSUCHFILE, no such file >  > D >>The error ocuurs when the NFS mounted file systems are physically H >>located on a PC with Fedora core 2. (File systems located on an Alpha ( >>with Redhat 7.x seem to be unaffected)K >>The files which "cannot be found" are always directory files, and always   >>the same directory files.  >  > @ >>I'm running OpenVMS 7.3-2 with HP-TCP/IP-services V5.4 - ECO 2 >  > 6 >>Anybody any idea where to look to solve the problem:? >>      is it HP--TCP/IP so that I can use my service contract? : >>      or is the problem more likely to be Fedora core 2? >  > @ > This looks like a permissions or symbolic link problem.  What  > is the output of >   ls -l /home/joukj/plot > and  >   ls -ld /home/joukj/plot E > on the tarantella FC2 system?  How does the output differ from the  A > same commands pointing to directory files that do not have the  
 > problem? > K I do not see any difference: plot is not OK end pesch in the same dir is OK  aaee-jj ) ls -ld plot 1 drwx------  3 joukj joukj 20480 Oct  5 09:34 plot  aaee-jj ) ls -l plot
 total 17686 -rw-r-----  1 joukj joukj   6225 Oct  5 08:43 axis.F908 -rw-r-----  1 joukj joukj   1893 Oct  5 08:43 begplt.F905 -rw-r-----  1 joukj joukj   4043 Oct  5 08:43 bin.F90 6 -rw-r-----  1 joukj joukj   4130 Oct  5 08:43 bout.F906 -rw-r-----  1 joukj joukj   8509 Oct  5 08:43 buff.F90< -rw-r-----  1 joukj joukj   1580 Oct  5 08:43 common_pds.inc> -rw-r-----  1 joukj joukj   1478 Oct  5 08:43 common_regis.inc< -rw-r-----  1 joukj joukj   1717 Oct  5 08:43 common_vws.inc= -rw-r-----  1 joukj joukj   2783 Oct  5 08:43 dashdotline.F90 : -rw-r-----  1 joukj joukj   2598 Oct  5 08:43 dashline.F908 -rw-r-----  1 joukj joukj   3877 Oct  5 08:43 dpinit.F908 -rw-r-----  1 joukj joukj   1862 Oct  5 08:43 endplt.F90; -rw-r-----  1 joukj joukj   2056 Oct  5 08:43 errorstop.F90 8 -rw-r-----  1 joukj joukj   1759 Oct  5 08:43 factor.F908 -rw-r-----  1 joukj joukj   7602 Oct  5 08:43 fpinit.F900 drwx------  2 joukj joukj   4096 Oct  5 09:42 gl6 -rw-r-----  1 joukj joukj    216 Oct  5 08:43 help.inc9 -rw-r-----  1 joukj joukj   1789 Oct  5 08:43 hexgrid.F90 > -rw-r-----  1 joukj joukj   2166 Oct  5 08:43 hp_gl_newpen.F908 -rw-r-----  1 joukj joukj  16465 Oct  5 08:43 hpinit.F90> -rw-r-----  1 joukj joukj   1077 Oct  5 08:43 hp_linewidth.F90< -rw-r-----  1 joukj joukj  21756 Oct  5 08:43 hp_to_post.F90@ -rw-r-----  1 joukj joukj   1146 Oct  5 08:43 last_non_space.F906 -rw-r-----  1 joukj joukj   2845 Oct  5 08:43 line.F90B -rw-r-----  1 joukj joukj   1602 Oct  5 08:43 magick_cleararea.F90> -rw-r-----  1 joukj joukj    981 Oct  5 08:43 magick_clear.F90< -rw-r-----  1 joukj joukj   1513 Oct  5 08:43 magick_end.F90A -rw-r-----  1 joukj joukj   1103 Oct  5 08:43 magick_getscale.F90  etc...       aaee-jj ) ls -ld pesch1 drwx------  2 joukj joukj 4096 Jun  3 11:52 pesch  aaee-jj ) ls -l pesch 	 total 468 ? -rw-r-----  1 joukj joukj  5012 Jun  3 11:52 adjust_ranstru.F90 5 -rw-r-----  1 joukj joukj  1688 Jun  3 11:52 cpol.F90 @ -rw-r-----  1 joukj joukj  3789 Jun  3 11:52 cpol_to_expcpol.F906 -rw-r-----  1 joukj joukj  7463 Jun  3 11:52 cumul.F90; -rw-r-----  1 joukj joukj  1476 Jun  3 11:52 double_fac.F90 < -rw-r-----  1 joukj joukj  2642 Jun  3 11:52 dump_common.F905 -rw-r-----  1 joukj joukj  6404 Jun  3 11:52 esom.F90 6 -rw-r-----  1 joukj joukj  1697 Jun  3 11:52 facul.F90? -rw-r-----  1 joukj joukj  2132 Jun  3 11:52 genext_ranstru.F90 5 -rw-r-----  1 joukj joukj 20248 Jun  3 11:52 ginv.F90 < -rw-r-----  1 joukj joukj  2556 Jun  3 11:52 ginv_module.F905 -rw-r-----  1 joukj joukj   199 Jun  3 11:52 help.inc ? -rw-r-----  1 joukj joukj  2380 Jun  3 11:52 iadrss_ranstru.F90 = -rw-r-----  1 joukj joukj  5283 Jun  3 11:52 kmverb.F90etc...  etc....                          Jouk   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 09:06:32 -0400* From: "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca>% Subject: Re: DCL-like syntax standard 3 Message-ID: <Fab9d.3193$KF.25753@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>   7 True about Oracle being developped on VMS then Solaris. L Now they turned to some other Unix flavor I think (can`t remember which) and3 they also put great emphasis on the use of Linux...   L With Chinadotcom, nothing really has changed so far, as we customers can seeH (speaking mostly for myself here). Same number for support, etc. GembaseI development and support still in Califormia (sometimes from Atlanta but I - usually speak to the same people, all in CA).   I I`ve heard the development group in the Atlanta office has been offered a L one-way trip to China. This is for all the old Cobol applications I think. IF still get support out of Atlanta for the Classic AP/GL products (Cobol apps).   Additions / corrections welcome    --   Syltrem    OpenVMS 7.3-1 + Oracle 8.1.7.4H http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS related web site, en franais)% ---zulu is not in my email address--- E "Fabio Cardoso" <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> a crit dans le message de 7 news:f30679fb.0410061110.42355498@posting.google.com... 7 > "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca> wrote in message / news:<3MS8d.3148$KF.25265@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>... ; > > Gembase also uses the VMS syntax for its error messages 4 > > %MDDMAN-E-NOSUCHDF, Not attached to database FIN > >   > > Gembase was designed on VMS. >  > WellL > My doubt is not related to Gembase under Linux. Its about some scripts or may H > be programs in the near future with DCL-like syntax. And messages too. > H > I think Oracle was developed under OpenVMS until Oracle  V6.0. So they' > began to develop under Solaris ! Ok ?  >  >  > > --   > > Syltrem  > > " > > OpenVMS 7.3-1 + Oracle 8.1.7.4L > > http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS related web site, en franais)) > > ---zulu is not in my email address--- D > > "Doc." <doc.cypher@openvms-rocks.com> a crit dans le message de5 > > news:Xns9579DCD704E7Bdcovmsrox@212.100.160.123... , > > > %NEWS-I-NEWMSG, Fabio Cardoso wrote in! news:f30679fb.0410050427.141089f4  > > > @posting.google.com  > > >  > > > > I have a doubt:  > > > > 2 > > > > Is the DCL-like syntax standard patented ? > > > > E > > > > Can I develop a utility for another plaform (Linux) using it?  > > > >  > > > > Example: > > > > 2 > > > >> COMMAND /PARAMETER  i.e.  SHOW /PARAMETER > > > I > > > I doubt if it is patented, and I thought that you'd been looking at  > >  Gembase2 > > > which unashamedly steals DCL-style syntax... > > >  > > > INPUT_BLOCK /ROW=x /COL=y  > > >  > > > 
 > > > Doc.	 > > > --  D > > > OpenVMS:     Eight out of ten hackers prefer *other* operating systems.D > > > http://www.openvms-rocks.com    Deathrow Public-Access OpenVMS Cluster.   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Oct 2004 01:24:40 -0700 . From: martinkirby12@yahoo.co.uk (Martin Kirby)5 Subject: Re: DECwindows security: access to port 6000 < Message-ID: <224291b.0410070024.4657f41b@posting.google.com>  a JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message news:<416458F9.D2E6D42B@teksavvy.com>... O > Just noticed some korean hacker had a session established to my vaxstations's  > port 6000. > N > A BG6309 device was created and owned by DECW$SERVER_0 process running under > my own username. >  > Questions: > P > Why would the SERVER  (which is the x terminal side, right ?) be running underI > my username instead of SYSTEM ? Doesn't the server get started before I  > actually login ?  > During the DECwindows login process the server changes to yourE username. When you logout it reverts to SYSTEM (except on one, older, @ version of OpenVMS where that functionality was broken - I can't remember which).   > O > If this korean hacker was connected to port 6000, it is correct to state that P > the "normal" effect would have been for him to pop a window up on my display ?K > (as opposed to running some executable on my machine under my username) ?  >   B There wouldn't be anyway I know of to run something on your systemB but, if your display server was open to connections, he could haveC connected to the server and run an application that captures any or 7 all screen activity. Including usernames and passwords.   N > Is there a utility that lists all clients that have connected to my server ?  E No. You can list all windows on your server using DECW$UTILS:XLSWINS. F If you have set DECW$SERVER_CONNECT_LOG (DECW$SERVER_AUDIT_LEVEL sinceF V7.3-2) before starting the server you can inspect the server log file for current connections.   > N > (eg: to find out if this guy had actually begun to do anything, or if he hadM > just established a TCPIP connection hoping it would be some web server, but   > hadn't begun any X protocol ?) > O > If someone connects to port 6000, would the DECW$SERVER process time out this H > connection eventually if the "client" doesn't initiate abny X protocol > activity ?  E Interesting question. I can't remember seeing any code that does that  so I think not.    > P > (and yes, I have since disabled inbound access to my X server, but sometimes IO > want it opened if I need to test software that runs on a remote node whose IP  > many not be fixed).   D As long as you have reverse name translation then why does it matter if the IP address changes?  @ If you don't have reverse name translation and are running Alpha> V7.3-2 I would recommend using a magic cookie if you want suchB temporary access or Kerberos if it is a more frequent requirement.D This is more secure than opening your server to any would be hacker. To use cookie you can just:    On your local system do:$ $ SET DISP/GENER=(TRUSTED,NOTIMEOUT) $ xauth list DECW$DISPLAY   A cut and paste the cookie value to the remote system where you do: ( $xauth add decw$display . <cookie value>  E You can use a pipe command to extract and merge the cookie but I find " it easier to just use cut & paste.   Regards,   Martin Kirby   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 06:10:46 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 5 Subject: Re: DECwindows security: access to port 6000 , Message-ID: <416515F6.BFE9FF26@teksavvy.com>   Martin Kirby wrote: @ > During the DECwindows login process the server changes to yourG > username. When you logout it reverts to SYSTEM (except on one, older, B > version of OpenVMS where that functionality was broken - I can't > remember which).  J I take it this change of username occurs so that the server can pickup any user level customizations ?   ? Interesting that the log file remains in sys$manager though :-)   D > but, if your display server was open to connections, he could haveE > connected to the server and run an application that captures any or 9 > all screen activity. Including usernames and passwords.   M Would such an application have to declare itself a window manager in order to M capture all keystrokes ? (and then pass them to the former window manager ?).   K Could one actually run such an application without popping up any window on 
 the display ?     H > If you have set DECW$SERVER_CONNECT_LOG (DECW$SERVER_AUDIT_LEVEL sinceH > V7.3-2) before starting the server you can inspect the server log file > for current connections.  M I was able to see the connection and IP adresses (2 attempts) in the log. But  not what they tried to do :-(   F > As long as you have reverse name translation then why does it matter > if the IP address changes?  M Because I believe that in the security setup for the DECWINDOWS, the dialogue L expects IP adresses. (on VAX at least). Remember having to fiddle a lot withN it at one point and decided that it was just easier to put a * * in there. NowL I just took it off completely and will just add it when I know it is needed.  B > If you don't have reverse name translation and are running Alpha  5 Unfortunatly, we are stuck with ancient stuff on VAX.    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Oct 2004 06:35:54 -0700 # From: Stitzman@gmail.com (stitzman) % Subject: Re: Disabling source routing = Message-ID: <53cc0efd.0410070535.71ead0e0@posting.google.com>    Sorry.   TCP/IP Services v5.4   Thanks.         e David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<4164C047.1CE8E738@comcast.net>...  > stitzman wrote:  > > D > > I am trying to find some documentation about disabling IP sourceI > > routing on an OpenVMS 7.2 system.  I'd like to know where this is set 3 > > so I can verify it and disable it if necessary.  > > F > > I have looked through much documentation, consulted the HP OpenVMSH > > "Ask the Wizard" archives and searched through this newsgroup, but I< > > haven't found an answer.  Any help would be appreciated. > ( > Which TCP/IP software are you running? > ! > ...TCP/IP Services (pka "UCX")?  > ...Multinet?
 > ...TCPware?  >  > What version of the above? >  > --   > David J Dachtera > dba DJE Systems  > http://www.djesys.com/ > + > Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: $ > http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ > * > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 09:22:44 -0400$ From: "PEN" <paul.nuneznosp@mhp.com>* Subject: Re: Disk corruption and Pathworks, Message-ID: <ck3fv6$rqm$1@hplms2.hpl.hp.com>   Hi Tom,   I I can't recall any reports in the support center on this.   But what are  4 some of the VMS errors you receive when this occurs?  K Do you believe the .DIR file has become corrupted or that the file headers   or both?  K If you can do $ DIR <FILE>, does $ DIR/FULL <FILE> then result in an error   such as "no such file"?   ? How do you recover from this problem (i.e, $ anal/disk/repair)?   7 Are there any related Advanced Server errors seen from:   * $ admin/anal/since=<date-problem-occurred>3 $ admin sh event/full/since=<date-problem-occurred> K $ type pwrk$lmlogs:pwrk$lmsrv_<nodename>.log;n  ! Where version 'n' is the  < version of the log open at the time the corruption occurred.  L You can determine whether you're running Advanced Server v7.3 eco2 or v7.3A  eco2 by doing:  # $ @sys$startup:pwrk$define_commands  $ pwver   0 The image ident for v7.3A ECO2 will be V7.3-120A. The image ident for v7.3 ECO2 will be V7.3-120  L If you're not running the 'A' flavor, that would be the place to start (you 9 can get ECO3, the current version, from ftp.itrc.hp.com).    HTH,   PaulC "Tom Simpson" <thomas.simpson1@fubar.comcast.net> wrote in message  ) news:4p19d.344875$Fg5.335468@attbi_s53... I > I've had a second occurrence of disk/directory corruption in 3 months.   > The J > affected directory was the same logical disk directory both times.  ThisJ > directory is a Pathworks share and it's prime use is to send and receiveL > files from client systems, both Windows and Unix.  We are running a 2-nodeK > homogeneous cluster configuration on ES40's using OpenVMS Alpha 7.3-1 and A > Advanced Server (the version that came with VMS 7.3-1) w/ECO 2.  > K > No other directories have issues and I see no problem with the disk drive  > (it's on an EMC SAN).  > J > When the problem occurs, we see problems such as files that can be seen  > fromF > one node but not the other. Or you can see the file with a directoryG > command, but can't do anything with it, such as copy or edit.  In one K > instance, f$search could find the files from one node, but not the other. K > In the f$search problem, the files could be seen with a directory command  > from both nodes. > K > The share directory is on a disk that is mounted cluster-wide and process F > privileges are not the issue.  This problem has caused major issues 	 > because K > we depend heavily on automated procedures to manage client file transfers ' > and files are being missed or "lost".  > 1 > Is anyone else seeing problems similar to this?  > 
 > Regards, > Tom  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 14:35:42 +0400 & From: Valentin Likoum <me@privacy.net> Subject: EVA vs. bunch of MSA?+ Message-ID: <2skgvbF1jt4i8U1@uni-berlin.de>   	 Hello all   <    We are planning purchase of FC stuff. Initially we looked; at the EVA3000, but after visiting HP' storage presentation ! we started to think about MSA1500 #   The points we are thinking about: : - maximum spindle count is the same (56). Well, with dual ; bus configuration this number will be 28 for MSA. But price : difference let us acquire bunch of MSAs instead of one EVA< - throughput and maximum number of operations per second is < a bit less for MSA, but again for the price of EVA we could ? acquire bunch of MSAs so summary throughput could be much more. < - MSA doesn't require Management Appliance. Windows machine < in the heart of storage network makes me a bit nervous. And 9 it's very expensive. We could buy a pair of MSAs for the  7 price (including license) of this Management Appliance. 6 - EVA seems to be more easy to manage. But we are not * planning to reconfigure arrays very often.: - EVA' vraid. Hm... Looking very attractive. But is where ; essential difference (in performance and reliability) with  # MSA[s] configured in one 0+1 array?   9    Are where any other not so obvious pros and cons with  5 both solutions? Does anybody use both configurations?   
 Thank you.   --  
 Best regards, 
   Valentin)   valentin.likoum at ncc dot volga dot ru    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 07:00:53 -0400" From: "Hal Kuff" <kuff@tessco.com>" Subject: Re: EVA vs. bunch of MSA?- Message-ID: <ck37kp$jq3@library2.airnews.net>   E The MSA is VERY VERY limited and can not do snapshots and clones.....   3 "Valentin Likoum" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message % news:2skgvbF1jt4i8U1@uni-berlin.de...  > Hello all  > > >    We are planning purchase of FC stuff. Initially we looked= > at the EVA3000, but after visiting HP' storage presentation # > we started to think about MSA1500 % >   The points we are thinking about: ; > - maximum spindle count is the same (56). Well, with dual = > bus configuration this number will be 28 for MSA. But price < > difference let us acquire bunch of MSAs instead of one EVA= > - throughput and maximum number of operations per second is = > a bit less for MSA, but again for the price of EVA we could A > acquire bunch of MSAs so summary throughput could be much more. = > - MSA doesn't require Management Appliance. Windows machine = > in the heart of storage network makes me a bit nervous. And : > it's very expensive. We could buy a pair of MSAs for the9 > price (including license) of this Management Appliance. 7 > - EVA seems to be more easy to manage. But we are not , > planning to reconfigure arrays very often.; > - EVA' vraid. Hm... Looking very attractive. But is where < > essential difference (in performance and reliability) with% > MSA[s] configured in one 0+1 array?  > : >    Are where any other not so obvious pros and cons with7 > both solutions? Does anybody use both configurations?  >  > Thank you. >  > --   > Best regards,  >   Valentin+ >   valentin.likoum at ncc dot volga dot ru    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Oct 2004 08:54:15 -0500 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) " Subject: Re: EVA vs. bunch of MSA?3 Message-ID: <uVX0ZBKmaBta@eisner.encompasserve.org>   T In article <2skgvbF1jt4i8U1@uni-berlin.de>, Valentin Likoum <me@privacy.net> writes:  > > - MSA doesn't require Management Appliance. Windows machine 9 > in the heart of storage network makes me a bit nervous.   0 That has been my guiding principle in this area.  @ You would not want your disk to become unavailable every 43 days like the Los Angeles Airport !   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 10:13:17 -0400 * From: Joel Loveless <joell@mindspring.com>" Subject: Re: EVA vs. bunch of MSA?8 Message-ID: <ftiam0lqbpsob0no85ede69adhoc51b432@4ax.com>  E On 7 Oct 2004 08:54:15 -0500, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)  wrote:  U >In article <2skgvbF1jt4i8U1@uni-berlin.de>, Valentin Likoum <me@privacy.net> writes:  > ? >> - MSA doesn't require Management Appliance. Windows machine  : >> in the heart of storage network makes me a bit nervous. > 1 >That has been my guiding principle in this area.  > A >You would not want your disk to become unavailable every 43 days  >like the Los Angeles Airport !     A The Management Appliance does not affect the operation of the EVA F controllers. It is simply a device for configuration and monitoring ofD the SAN environment. It also makes problem resolution much easier by( sending log files to support for review.  E I was also thinking that the MSA1000 was a better option due to cost. > But, after we got the EVA installed I was impressed by all theC functionality. If you have to do backups where you need a snapshot,  the EVA is a great solution.  F I was also impressed that when we had a failure, the EVA was simple toA repair. I come from an environment where HSJ's were the prevalent D controller. Anyone that has worked with an HSJ knows that changing aD failed controller can cause headaches with disk sets. We lost an EVAA controller due to a memory cache error. VMS did not even bark one A mount verification. The engineer changed the controller on a live F production system with no manager intervention or lose of data, etc. I was greatly impressed.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 14:23:11 GMT 1 From: Keith Parris <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> " Subject: Re: EVA vs. bunch of MSA?0 Message-ID: <jjc9d.272$ae6.154@news.cpqcorp.net>   Valentin Likoum wrote:= >   We are planning purchase of FC stuff. Initially we looked = > at the EVA3000, but after visiting HP' storage presentation # > we started to think about MSA1500   I There will be some customer situations where the MSA1500 is a better fit  F than the EVA3000. Yours may be one of those. If the EVA3000 fit every 6 situation, HP wouldn't need to offer the MSA1500 also.  K > - MSA doesn't require Management Appliance. Windows machine in the heart  I > of storage network makes me a bit nervous. And it's very expensive. We  E > could buy a pair of MSAs for the price (including license) of this   > Management Appliance.   E Note that the EVA doesn't depend on the Management Appliance for its  G operation -- the Appliance is just used for setup and management tasks  F and for monitoring. So if the Appliance got a Blue-Screen-of-Death it  wouldn't hurt the EVAs.   D > - EVA seems to be more easy to manage. But we are not planning to   > reconfigure arrays very often.. > - EVA' vraid. Hm... Looking very attractive.  G Virtualization does seem to be a big advantage of the EVA over the MSA.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 08:53:53 GMT ! From: Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com> 8 Subject: Re: HP Lands More than 200 Sun Server customers8 Message-ID: <7s0am0pe99auud2bjfrt7t39htn2jmieu1@4ax.com>  K On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 18:20:24 -0400, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  wrote:   >Keith Parris wrote:F >> Under contract with IDC, HP has some freedom to share IDC data withD >> customers. And here, I was merely responding to a post from a Sun= >> employee who was citing IDC Quarterly Server Tracker data.  > O >But why doesn't HP actually release those numbers in their financials or other  >publicly released materials ?   > 9 >Sun has no porblems bragging about Solaris's successes ?   O Sun is a one-trick pony when it comes to operating systems. All the wood behind J one arrow. By definition any Sun success is a Solaris success. In 1990 any7 Digital bragging would by implication be a VMS success.    -- Nigel Barker Live from the sunny Cote d'Azur    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 10:23:15 +0100 9 From: Andrew Harrison <andrew_remove__harrison@sun__.com> 8 Subject: Re: HP Lands More than 200 Sun Server customers( Message-ID: <41650B03.1040304@sun__.com>   Keith Parris wrote:  > Bill Gunshannon wrote: >  >> What was your point?  >  > K > Sun has been trying to brag about stealing HP customers, with a count of  I > 40 or 50 or 70 as time as passed. This shows that the bulk trend is in  ' > the opposite direction --> toward HP.  >   6 Err no Keith had you done your research you would know6 that the last time Sun published a count of the number5 of HP customers who had migrated to Sun it was in the 	 150 mark.   2 But hey lets not break your duck on getting things right shall we.    Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 10:24:26 +0100 9 From: Andrew Harrison <andrew_remove__harrison@sun__.com> 8 Subject: Re: HP Lands More than 200 Sun Server customers0 Message-ID: <ck320c$sj2$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Tom Linden wrote: 7 > On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 17:13:32 +0100, Andrew Harrison   , > <andrew_remove__harrison@sun__.com> wrote: >  >> Tom Linden wrote: >>: >>> On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 16:44:19 +0100, Andrew Harrison   . >>> <andrew_remove__harrison@sun__.com> wrote: >>>  >>>> Keith Parris wrote: >>>>@ >>>>> HP has announced that in the past 18 months more than 200 G >>>>> customers   worldwide have chosen HP servers over Sun systems to  D >>>>> help improve   agility in the datacenter and adapt rapidly to I >>>>> changing business  needs.  By offering a portfolio of services and  J >>>>> incentives with the  broadest  industry standard-based server line, J >>>>> HP has gained new  customers in  financial services, manufacturing, F >>>>> retail, aerospace,  bioinformatics,  telecommunications and the I >>>>> public sector. In  financial services alone,  HP has won more than  7 >>>>> 40 significant deals  from Sun Microsystems, Inc.  >>>>>  Press Release  ? >>>>> http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/2004/040921a.htmlWH >>>>>  More information about HP's migration services for Sun customers - >>>>> is   available at www.hp.com/go/eclipseEJ >>>>>  More information about why more Sun customers are choosing HP is   . >>>>> available at www.hp.com/go/maketheswitch >>>> >>>> >>>>E >>>> Ammusing really, I work in what was HP's largest retail customer F >>>> in Europe. Was because HP lost the datacenter systems business toD >>>> Sun and all the new retail apps being deployed are being rolled >>>> out on Solaris. >>>>D >>>> The total systems revenues in this one account is equivalent toH >>>> more than 6 months of the total OpenVMS worldwide systems revenues. >>>t >>>   And how much is that?n >>>S >>1 >> The 6 monthly revenues for OpenVMS systems arer >> around 100 million dollarsr > ' > Does that include HW, SW and Service?s >    Doesn't include services.r   RegardsL Andrew Harrison0 >>
 >> Regards >> >>>> >>>> >>>> Regards >>>> Andrew Harrison >>>  >>>P >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 10:30:45 +0100c9 From: Andrew Harrison <andrew_remove__harrison@sun__.com> 8 Subject: Re: HP Lands More than 200 Sun Server customers0 Message-ID: <ck32c7$spv$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Nigel Barker wrote:tM > On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 18:20:24 -0400, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>t > wrote: >  >  >>Keith Parris wrote:t >>F >>>Under contract with IDC, HP has some freedom to share IDC data withD >>>customers. And here, I was merely responding to a post from a Sun= >>>employee who was citing IDC Quarterly Server Tracker data.p >>P >>But why doesn't HP actually release those numbers in their financials or other  >>publicly released materials ?  >>: >>Sun has no porblems bragging about Solaris's successes ? >  > Q > Sun is a one-trick pony when it comes to operating systems. All the wood behindyL > one arrow. By definition any Sun success is a Solaris success. In 1990 any9 > Digital bragging would by implication be a VMS success.- >   E Ahh another person with the same grasp of hard facts as Keith posting0
 on HP's time.r  C Ever heard of JDS ??????????  AIB in the UK just standardised on itD for their desktop.  * What OS do you think JDS is based on ?????  ? AIB and all the other JDS customers are Sun sucesses and JDS is0 not Solaris based.  . And anyway Solaris is a pretty good trick pony   Regardsn Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 10:48:53 +0100 9 From: Andrew Harrison <andrew_remove__harrison@sun__.com> 8 Subject: Re: HP Lands More than 200 Sun Server customers0 Message-ID: <ck33e7$t2u$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:X > In article <2siufsF1kkd8qU1@uni-berlin.de>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > 5 >>In article <fQG9ufo2Pxk6@eisner.encompasserve.org>,o2 >>	Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: >>Q >>>In article <opsfgjmwgszgicya@hyrrokkin>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:p >>>h4 >>>>On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 16:46:37 GMT, Keith Parris  ) >>>><keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote:r >>> L >>>>>No, it actually doesn't say what HP platforms the 200 customers moved  K >>>>>to. (I visited a customer site in the NYC area a couple of weeks ago  nF >>>>>where they are actively porting Solaris applications to OpenVMS.) >  > F >>Of course, based on the information above it could just as easily beG >>someone with a Sparcstation-I porting some truly trivial application.n >  > B > That is not the type of customer to whom Keith Parris gets sent.  < There was no hint from Keiths post that he had been actively9 involved in any of the migrations or whatever they reallyt are.  ; I on the other hand have been involved in migrating systemse9 from HP to Sun at BT, two major investment banks, HP's exu: largest retail customer in europe and three of the 4 major mobile operators in the UK.   : And all of these have been major programs ranging from 3-4, million dollars to over 100 million dollars.  , SPARCstation 1's were never tha expensive :)   Regardsp Andrew Harrisonn   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 10:26:01 GMTe! From: Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com> 8 Subject: Re: HP Lands More than 200 Sun Server customers8 Message-ID: <fp5am0p8bvcjjmk440qf093n65laoa9f2c@4ax.com>  3 On Thu, 07 Oct 2004 10:30:45 +0100, Andrew Harrisonr* <andrew_remove__harrison@sun__.com> wrote:   >Nigel Barker wrote:N >> On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 18:20:24 -0400, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>	 >> wrote:  >> s >>   >>>Keith Parris wrote: >>> G >>>>Under contract with IDC, HP has some freedom to share IDC data with E >>>>customers. And here, I was merely responding to a post from a Sun > >>>>employee who was citing IDC Quarterly Server Tracker data. >>> Q >>>But why doesn't HP actually release those numbers in their financials or other-! >>>publicly released materials ? t >>> ; >>>Sun has no porblems bragging about Solaris's successes ?i >> > >> jR >> Sun is a one-trick pony when it comes to operating systems. All the wood behindM >> one arrow. By definition any Sun success is a Solaris success. In 1990 anyt: >> Digital bragging would by implication be a VMS success. >> p >mF >Ahh another person with the same grasp of hard facts as Keith posting >on HP's time. >LD >Ever heard of JDS ??????????  AIB in the UK just standardised on it >for their desktop.p >n+ >What OS do you think JDS is based on ?????   M Available on Linux or Solaris x86 according to the web page. BTW If it's Java O shouldn't it be platform neutral? Why isn't it available on Solaris on SPARC or  indeed any other Java platform?i  @ >AIB and all the other JDS customers are Sun sucesses and JDS is >not Solaris based.c  = JDS is available on Solaris x86 according to the Sun web siteu  / >And anyway Solaris is a pretty good trick ponyE >2 >Regards >Andrew Harrison  L I wasn't trying to dis Solaris & don't know why you imagined I was. IgnoringN hardware platforms for the moment Sun has a good consistent story to tell whenO it comes to operating systems. It is certainly easier to articulate than having N a multi operating system strategy. Not necessarily better but certainly easier to understand.  P When I responded I was thinking about server operating systems & not desktop PCs though.t   -- Nigel Barker Live from the sunny Cote d'Azurn   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Oct 2004 11:56:55 GMTe( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)8 Subject: Re: HP Lands More than 200 Sun Server customers+ Message-ID: <2skp86F1mjlkrU1@uni-berlin.de>n  8 In article <7s0am0pe99auud2bjfrt7t39htn2jmieu1@4ax.com>,$ 	Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com> writes: > > > Sun is a one-trick pony when it comes to operating systems.   D And when it comes to operating systems HP is just a Microsoft shill.C What's your point? (I know HP has other Oses, but they don't marketJC VMS, HPUX is just another Unix and Linux is, well it's just Linux.)   L >                                                        All the wood behindA > one arrow. By definition any Sun success is a Solaris success. o  < Something wrong with concentrating on what makes your money?  M >                                                                 In 1990 anyc9 > Digital bragging would by implication be a VMS success.o  E So, based on your apparent attitiude concerning the previous sentencen you saw this as a bad thing?   Boy am I ocnfused now.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   a   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 14:34:18 +0100eO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>e8 Subject: Re: HP Lands More than 200 Sun Server customers0 Message-ID: <ck3gks$48a$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Nigel Barker wrote: 5 > On Thu, 07 Oct 2004 10:30:45 +0100, Andrew Harrison , > <andrew_remove__harrison@sun__.com> wrote: >  >  >>Nigel Barker wrote:o >>N >>>On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 18:20:24 -0400, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>	 >>>wrote:8 >>>t >>>8 >>>e >>>>Keith Parris wrote:o >>>> >>>>H >>>>>Under contract with IDC, HP has some freedom to share IDC data withF >>>>>customers. And here, I was merely responding to a post from a Sun? >>>>>employee who was citing IDC Quarterly Server Tracker data.- >>>>R >>>>But why doesn't HP actually release those numbers in their financials or other" >>>>publicly released materials ?  >>>>< >>>>Sun has no porblems bragging about Solaris's successes ? >>>  >>> R >>>Sun is a one-trick pony when it comes to operating systems. All the wood behindM >>>one arrow. By definition any Sun success is a Solaris success. In 1990 any : >>>Digital bragging would by implication be a VMS success. >>>k >>G >>Ahh another person with the same grasp of hard facts as Keith posting  >>on HP's time.0 >>E >>Ever heard of JDS ??????????  AIB in the UK just standardised on itk >>for their desktop. >>, >>What OS do you think JDS is based on ????? >  > O > Available on Linux or Solaris x86 according to the web page. BTW If it's Java-Q > shouldn't it be platform neutral? Why isn't it available on Solaris on SPARC or7! > indeed any other Java platform?- >   B It isn't currently available on anything other than SuSE Linux. It= will be available on Solaris x86 and Solaris SPARC next year.    > A >>AIB and all the other JDS customers are Sun sucesses and JDS is2 >>not Solaris based. >  > ? > JDS is available on Solaris x86 according to the Sun web siteF >  > 0 >>And anyway Solaris is a pretty good trick pony >>	 >>Regards- >>Andrew Harrison  >  > N > I wasn't trying to dis Solaris & don't know why you imagined I was. IgnoringP > hardware platforms for the moment Sun has a good consistent story to tell whenQ > it comes to operating systems. It is certainly easier to articulate than havingoP > a multi operating system strategy. Not necessarily better but certainly easier > to understand. >   8 I wasn't implying that you thought that Solaris is crap.  > But imagine that the HP one trick pony suddenly became OpenVMS? now that would in fact be a dissaster for HP, not because thereo> is anything particularly bad about OpenVMS sure its lacking in; some areas but these deficiences are somewhat offset by its3: strengths in clustering and security. No the reason why it< would be terrible for HP is that OpenVMS has no software and no market presence.o  9 Solaris on the other hand exceeds OpenVMS's capabilies inn9 a range of areas while having the huge advantage of beings< very well known and having a large and growing ISV portfolio) so as trick ponies go it isn't a bad one.   R > When I responded I was thinking about server operating systems & not desktop PCs	 > though.  >   H With things like SunRays the line is somewhat blurred. I have the SunRayD Server software running on JDS (SUSE) hosted on a Sun Opteron ServerE with multiple SunRay clients. A larger version of this using clustersoF of 4 way Sun Opteron Servers is currently being considered for a 12000 seat deployment.  E The value to Sun in this is the Servers and Middleware and to a much c) lesser extent the SunRay hardware itself.S   Regardsf Andrew HarrisonG   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 13:51:55 GMTt! From: Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com> 8 Subject: Re: HP Lands More than 200 Sun Server customers8 Message-ID: <fciam05ddqg26uft1gjtlgbnleeohjvumt@4ax.com>  E On Thu, 07 Oct 2004 14:34:18 +0100, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancyu. <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote:  - >>>What OS do you think JDS is based on ?????c >>   >>  P >> Available on Linux or Solaris x86 according to the web page. BTW If it's JavaR >> shouldn't it be platform neutral? Why isn't it available on Solaris on SPARC or" >> indeed any other Java platform? >> r >dC >It isn't currently available on anything other than SuSE Linux. Itc> >will be available on Solaris x86 and Solaris SPARC next year.    What version would this be then?e http://sdlcweb2b.sun.com/ECom/EComActionServlet?StoreId=1&PartDetailId=JDSII-S01CDRXS&LMLoadBalanced=oB I didn't want to fork out the $50 just to confirm what I had read.   -- Nigel Barker Live from the sunny Cote d'Azurr   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 15:09:17 +0100wO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>O8 Subject: Re: HP Lands More than 200 Sun Server customers0 Message-ID: <ck3imf$4ua$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Nigel Barker wrote:-G > On Thu, 07 Oct 2004 14:34:18 +0100, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy 0 > <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote: >  > . >>>>What OS do you think JDS is based on ????? >>>  >>> P >>>Available on Linux or Solaris x86 according to the web page. BTW If it's JavaR >>>shouldn't it be platform neutral? Why isn't it available on Solaris on SPARC or" >>>indeed any other Java platform? >>>e >>D >>It isn't currently available on anything other than SuSE Linux. It? >>will be available on Solaris x86 and Solaris SPARC next year.n >  > " > What version would this be then?g > http://sdlcweb2b.sun.com/ECom/EComActionServlet?StoreId=1&PartDetailId=JDSII-S01CDRXS&LMLoadBalanced=dD > I didn't want to fork out the $50 just to confirm what I had read. >    Blimey you are right.a  = Thats JDS 2 for Solaris x86. I was thinking for somereason of $ JDS 3.0 which will be out next year.   Regardst Andrew Harrisonr > -- > Nigel Barker! > Live from the sunny Cote d'Azurs   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 17:26:10 +0200-9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>t8 Subject: Re: HP Lands More than 200 Sun Server customers' Message-ID: <41656012.749A6F87@aaa.com>g   JF Mezei wrote:0 > 7 > If ISE agrees to be named as an HP customer in publicoP > advertising, I see no reason why it wouldn't want to brag about its advantages > it gains from VMS.  A Becuse they aren't running what they do becuse of VMS, but becuse : of the software package they bought from the Swedish based< OM Technology. See http://www.omxgroup.com/pdf/ISE_6_11.pdf.  	 Jan-Erik.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 08:48:46 -0700u# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>h8 Subject: Re: HP Lands More than 200 Sun Server customers( Message-ID: <opsfibjkjtzgicya@hyrrokkin>  K On Thu, 07 Oct 2004 17:26:10 +0200, Jan-Erik Sderholm <aaa@aaa.com> wrote:,   > JF Mezei wrote:O >>8 >> If ISE agrees to be named as an HP customer in publicH >> advertising, I see no reason why it wouldn't want to brag about its  
 >> advantagese >> it gains from VMS.e >cC > Becuse they aren't running what they do becuse of VMS, but becusep< > of the software package they bought from the Swedish based> > OM Technology. See http://www.omxgroup.com/pdf/ISE_6_11.pdf.  : They also do not mention VMS, at least I couldn't find it,C probably because they don't want to scare off prospective sutomers.n >a > Jan-Erik.y       -- cC Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/i   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 17:10:55 +0100aO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>W8 Subject: Re: HP Lands More than 200 Sun Server customers0 Message-ID: <ck3pqg$8ig$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Keith Parris wrote:r > Andrew Harrison wrote: > 1 >> The 6 monthly revenues for OpenVMS systems aren >> around 100 million dollarst >  > D > IDC Quarterly Server Tracker data shows customer revenues of $113 , > million for OpenVMS for the past 6 months. > I > But keep in mind how limited a subset of OpenVMS-related revenues this e > figure represents: > H > IDC Quarterly Server Tracker data is for initial purchases of servers J > only (upgrades are not included). It actually EXCLUDES operating system F > revenue (unless a base license is bundled, and even then it doesn't D > include multi-user licenses). And it does not include any layered J > software, storage (other than initial disks in the server box), cluster D > and network hardware, services, and other revenue associated with L > OpenVMS. (And a large proportion of VMS-related revenues are in Services.)  H However all the revenues you mention are pull through from the origionalG server expenditure. So when you compare OpenVMS server revenues runninggG at between 400 and 450 million a year with say Solaris revenues runningyE at 5-6 billion a year using the same metric its pretty clear which oftF the two OS's offers the best opportunity for cladding the systems with" services, middleware licences etc.  H You then get to the really unfortunate fact which is that HP has largelyC exited from the high value middleware market for OpenVMS while HP'saG newer products don't support OpenVMS prefering instead to target HP-UX,: Linux and Windows.   Regardsf Andrew Harrisons   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Oct 2004 14:05:23 GMT % From: " DD" <marketing@intekasia.com>. Subject: Lolita in China2 Message-ID: <ck3if3$mv4949@imsp212.netvigator.com>  Z <HTML><HEAD><META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dwindows-1252">9 <STYLE></STYLE></HEAD><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2> cC <BODY><DIV>Contact me free sex +8613680152666 DiuLei.</DIV><BR><BR>s   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 17:24:54 GMTt4 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>X Subject: Re: Obsucure Inquier article about Intel mentions VMS (and not any  other  OS')0 Message-ID: <GZe9d.305$Sv6.107@news.cpqcorp.net>  J JF.  You don't get it, and I can't explain it to you.  If you want to findL someone to vent your spleen to about VMS marketing, HP management, or IPF vsJ Alpha vs VAX vs Opteron - I no longer am interested in talking to you.  If? you have noticed, I have stopped even trying to engage in these & conversations with you or anyone else.  K So.  I'll tell you that IPF workstations were never on the VMS roadmap, andoI the announcement of the end of the zx2000 has no impact on Itanium.  I'lloC tell you that all of the IPF systems have built graphics, and to myeI knowledge will continue to have graphics.  If you want to argue that I amhC lying, or that HP can't be trusted - leve me out of the rest of ther discussion.   L Now, the low end of these systems - the rx1600 - can be had right now with 1L CPU, for about $1500.  It might not have the form factor I'd like to see forL a desktop, but it is a far sight better than the cost of a DS15, and it does have an X11 server.f  J I don't like talking to you, I'm sorry, because you want to turn a factualL response about what we have available, into a debate about what we should beC doing - or how incompetent we all are here at HP.  That might be anaL interesting conversation to some, but I am tired of it - and you are talking to the wrong person.        : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message& news:4164BFC2.E33917A4@teksavvy.com... > Fred Kleinsorge wrote:C > > I apologize JF, more importantly - I apologize to the group.  I7 responded to > > you, always a mistake. > 5 > Please try to see it from customer's point of view.t >s! > I just went to the HP web site.  >nF > http://www.hp.com/products1/servers/integrity/entry_level/index.html >tJ > Does show some models with VMS available (soon) or "evaluation release". ButnI > the specs make no mention of any graphics cards or packaging of serversu into > workstations being available.o >  > Going to:n+ > http://www.hp.com/workstations/index.html/ >sK > One sees the wintel stuff, and then there is the "RISC" workstations. Thee riscK > page includes both PaRisc and Alphastation products (including new PaRisca+ > models). No mention of IA64 based models./ > H > Combine this with the announcement that HP was pulling out of the IA64K > workstation market, and please understand that since the average customery may/J > not see your messages, he won't know that it is possible to turn an IA64K > server into a workstation and whether such config will support VMS or nota (for > graphical use).    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Oct 2004 08:48:46 -0500p- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)aQ Subject: Re: Obsucure Inquier article about Intel mentions VMS (and not any otherI3 Message-ID: <yuK+B6mFVBuN@eisner.encompasserve.org>   W In article <4164C477.5070401@tsoft-inc.com>, David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:   M > Well, there are others who also don't care whether VMS has a GUI.  I'm not kS > running one system with DECwindows.  If I need to provide a GUI interface in any lO > applications, I'll use windoz and support the GUI with services on VMS.  The dR > damn users are gonna have a damn windoz system on their desk regardless of what 3 > you or anyone else says.  Wake up.  Dream's over.r  H That use of Windows (or another non-VMS operating system) on the desktop is _not_ universal.n   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 10:29:15 -0400# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>mW Subject: Re: Obsucure Inquier article about Intel mentions VMS (and not any other  OS')u, Message-ID: <U8OdndTKiuwnz_jcRVn-gg@igs.net>   Rob Young wrote:D > In article <km19d.259$RG5.250@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge"& > <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com> writes: >>= >> "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in messagec) >> news:4164438D.A1B9DBA8@teksavvy.com...m >hB >> I apologize JF, more importantly - I apologize to the group.  I& >> responded to you, always a mistake. >w" > Well...  how about some JF tips? >d= > Antagonist he is.  But out of it, there comes some classic,x< > instructive responses.  Maybe too few to be worth it.  But5 > the seminal classic riposte to monsieur JF is foundS > in several links.  One here: >M > http://tinyurl.com/576sa >h< > From: Jamie Hanrahan, Kernel Mode Systems (jeh@cmkrnl.com)# > Subject: Re: FX!32, affinity etc.  > Newsgroups: comp.os.vmsw > Date: 1997/05/28 >f >s- > Just a few days ago, here is one technique:t >o > http://tinyurl.com/3oezy >i > JF writes: > G >> What would be interesting now would be to compare more recent market F >> share between solaris, HP-UX, Tru64 , AIX and Linux. I'd be willingG >> to bet a chocolate cookie that Sun is fairing better than both HP-UXo1 >> and AIX, but certainltly not as good as Linux.r >sB > Tell us what that means, "recent" and "fairing better" , solaris$ > versus others are vacuous at best.    F Tell us Senor Rob, what was VMS's market share back when JF posted hisH comment above and what is VMS's market share now? Was it 411,000 systemsF back then too - same as is alleged today, 8 years later? While I don'tI necessarily agree with everything JF posts, his observations about market4+ share back then are just as relevant today.r  G You and other Digital/Compaq/HP management apologists on the other handiK appear to be as blind as an ostrich with its head in the sand when it comeslH to issues of VMS's sustainability as a platform in the marketplace. LookI around on the job boards and tell me there is more demand for people with K VMS experience today than 8 years ago. Tell me that there are significantly L large numbers distinct *customers* using VMS today than 8 years ago. Tell meJ that the Itanic porting effort (just the work to port to the new chip) hasI not distracted from adding new, needed functionality to VMS. Tell me thatcJ the VMS Engineering team has not been substantially cut back in the past 8F years. Tell me that there aren't substantially few *buyable* 3rd-partyH applications for VMS (as opposed to brochure-ware applications for VMS).   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Oct 2004 04:53:34 -0700t' From: icerq4a@spray.se (David Svensson) V Subject: Re: Obsucure Inquier article about Intel mentions VMS (and not any other OS')= Message-ID: <734da31c.0410070353.3a584430@posting.google.com>e  q Andrew Harrison <andrew_remove__harrison@sun__.com> wrote in message news:<ck11gn$9vu$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...u > Fred Kleinsorge wrote:O > > SunRay is only an option if you have a Sun server to connect it to.  If yourO > > are using a VMS server for your VXT 2000+ as an X-Terminal, and you want to-N > > dump it - the simplest option is to get a PC configured with a X emulator.. > > Or just find a new/used Alpha workstation. > >  > G > Things have changed. SRSS 3.0 (SunRay Server Software) is now in BetadG > for Linux. I have it running on JDS (SUSE) and it also runs on RedHateE > so the backend hardware does not need to be a Sun though we do selllH > the best 2 way and 4 way x86/AMD64 boxes so why would you go elsewhere	 > anyway.0  : Andrew Harrison, Sun Marketing, we are the best. How cool.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 16:52:36 +0100uO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>eY Subject: Re: Obsucure Inquier article about Intel mentions VMS (and not any other OS') otE0 Message-ID: <ck3oo5$831$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   David Svensson wrote: s > Andrew Harrison <andrew_remove__harrison@sun__.com> wrote in message news:<ck11gn$9vu$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...o >  >>Fred Kleinsorge wrote: >>N >>>SunRay is only an option if you have a Sun server to connect it to.  If youN >>>are using a VMS server for your VXT 2000+ as an X-Terminal, and you want toM >>>dump it - the simplest option is to get a PC configured with a X emulator. - >>>Or just find a new/used Alpha workstation.g >>>e >>G >>Things have changed. SRSS 3.0 (SunRay Server Software) is now in BetaBG >>for Linux. I have it running on JDS (SUSE) and it also runs on RedHathE >>so the backend hardware does not need to be a Sun though we do sellnH >>the best 2 way and 4 way x86/AMD64 boxes so why would you go elsewhere	 >>anyway.o >  > < > Andrew Harrison, Sun Marketing, we are the best. How cool.  8 Hardly the V20Z and V40Z are better products technically8 and thats not a marketing point. It is of course a point4 that could be marketed but then no-one on this group9 has ever been exposed to their favourite vendor marketinge* OpenVMS on its technical merits have they.     regardsl Andrew HarrisonL   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Oct 2004 06:02:12 GMTt2 From: "Dave Weatherall" <djw-nothere@nospam.nohow>U Subject: Re: Obsucure Inquier article about Intel mentions VMS (and not anyother OS').? Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-CmG9pS3FMX57@dave2_os2.home.ours>a  1 On Wed, 6 Oct 2004 15:03:47 UTC, Andrew Harrison -* <andrew_remove__harrison@sun__.com> wrote:  G > Things have changed. SRSS 3.0 (SunRay Server Software) is now in BetavG > for Linux. I have it running on JDS (SUSE) and it also runs on RedHat>E > so the backend hardware does not need to be a Sun though we do sellnH > the best 2 way and 4 way x86/AMD64 boxes so why would you go elsewhere	 > anyway.y  E Thought struck me yesterday. VMS on Charon-VAX running under Solaris s on an Opteron machine...   -- o Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 13:14:14 GMTa, From: Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com>" Subject: OpenVMS Freeware Deadline0 Message-ID: <Gib9d.266$0Y5.193@news.cpqcorp.net>  H A quick reminder note posted from afar, and posted from else-software...B If this message shows up as HTML, apologies, I missed a setting...  5 OpenVMS Freeware submission deadline is 8-Nov-2004...o  . Information and submission requirements are at' <http://www.hp.com/go/openvms/freeware>d  ( See previous call for related details...  D Those newsgroup readers in Stockholm, I'll see you in the morning...   Hoff   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Oct 2004 06:02:14 GMTi2 From: "Dave Weatherall" <djw-nothere@nospam.nohow> Subject: Re: OpenVMS newbien? Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-EpboWOdcRd01@dave2_os2.home.ours>t  D On Wed, 6 Oct 2004 14:14:15 UTC, David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>  wrote:   > JF Mezei wrote:s >  > > Dave Weatherall wrote: > > H > >>Absolutely correct but it's a rule we nearly all break and, instead,6 > >>use the $ to indicate that it _is_ a logical name. > >> > > P > > Finally, someone who has the guts to stand up and tell the truth :-) :-) :-) > > 4 > > I too started off thinking $ was for logicals... > > M > > In fact, don't most system managers use $ when defining logicals for diskS > > drives ? >  > P > While I'm not a system manager, except when needed, I will choose to disagree  > with the above.n > M > On the earliest VAX systems at Decus in the late 1970s the device logicals  S > didn't use the '$', nor did any other logicals with the exception of SYS$... for tR > VMS system locations and such.  Might have been some others.  As for the disks, Q > some rather simple and meaningful names such as DISK1, DISK2, ... were in use.  B > I still use this simple and descriptive naming scheme for disks. > P > Why anyone would want to include characters requiring the shift key is beyond 3 > me.  Not all VMS people enjoy pain and suffering.o >  >  > Dave  ! You don't write any DCL  then :-)V   -- ' Cheers - Dave (one of many).   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Oct 2004 06:02:15 GMT 2 From: "Dave Weatherall" <djw-nothere@nospam.nohow> Subject: Re: OpenVMS newbie-? Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-VwMXnGnRJwvz@dave2_os2.home.ours>e  * On Wed, 6 Oct 2004 07:06:12 UTC, JF Mezei % <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:V   > Dave Weatherall wrote:H > > Absolutely correct but it's a rule we nearly all break and, instead,6 > > use the $ to indicate that it _is_ a logical name. > N > Finally, someone who has the guts to stand up and tell the truth :-) :-) :-) >    <GRIN>   --   Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 09:54:15 -04006( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> Subject: Re: OpenVMS newbiet, Message-ID: <41654A87.4080805@tsoft-inc.com>   Dave Weatherall wrote:  F > On Wed, 6 Oct 2004 14:14:15 UTC, David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>  > wrote: >  >  >>JF Mezei wrote:h >> >> >>>Dave Weatherall wrote:r >>>  >>> H >>>>Absolutely correct but it's a rule we nearly all break and, instead,6 >>>>use the $ to indicate that it _is_ a logical name. >>>> >>>>O >>>Finally, someone who has the guts to stand up and tell the truth :-) :-) :-)e >>>o3 >>>I too started off thinking $ was for logicals...  >>>iL >>>In fact, don't most system managers use $ when defining logicals for disk >>>drives ?o >>>a >>P >>While I'm not a system manager, except when needed, I will choose to disagree  >>with the above.  >>M >>On the earliest VAX systems at Decus in the late 1970s the device logicals sS >>didn't use the '$', nor did any other logicals with the exception of SYS$... for  R >>VMS system locations and such.  Might have been some others.  As for the disks, Q >>some rather simple and meaningful names such as DISK1, DISK2, ... were in use. uB >>I still use this simple and descriptive naming scheme for disks. >>P >>Why anyone would want to include characters requiring the shift key is beyond 3 >>me.  Not all VMS people enjoy pain and suffering.  >> >> >>Dave >> > # > You don't write any DCL  then :-)  >  >   Q Some.  As little as I can get away with.  Command files for building application uN programs, backups, and such.  I don't consider DCL a programming language, at  least the way some do.   Dave   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road> Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 17:17:00 +0200_9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>>* Subject: Re: OpenVMS non-advertising today' Message-ID: <41655DEC.F1DC54B0@aaa.com>n  
 Also see :( http://www.omxgroup.com/pdf/ISE_6_11.pdf   Regards,
 /Jan-Erik.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 08:40:56 -0500e& From: Thomas Wirt <twnews@kittles.com>& Subject: Re: OT: Sun's fighting chance* Message-ID: <41654768.5020803@kittles.com>   Tom Linden wrote:BG > On Tue, 5 Oct 2004 18:43:20 -0400, John Smith <a@nonymous.com> wrote:d >  >> JF Mezei wrote: >> >> >> >>4 >> The definition of the word 'open' keeps changing. >>B >> FIPS standards used to define 'open'; now 'open' seems to mean  >> 'Linux'  andn >> open source.l > M > Open used to mean more-or-less unfettered and gratis access to source code.aL > When Digital redubbed VMS, OpenVMS  it struck me as disingenous.  The wordK > Open should probably be dropped as it has been diluted of all meaning andb" > is only a ritualistic appelation  F The open in VMS refers to Open Standards, not open source or anything F else.  Open Standards are standards that anyone can code or build to. A There even could be a patent and reasonable (and it must be very nF reasonable) license fee attached to an open standard, but EVERYONE is G allowed to use it.  That is the Open part.  Standards can be either de aA facto (usually not really very standard) or by a professional or  E standards body such as IEEE.  The inclusion of TCPIP and support for e SCSI makes VMS open.  H Don't get me wrong, I do not think that VMS or most commercial OSes are G completely open, but there was a time when it was difficult to get VMS  H to talk to another OS and the only way to do an  over the wire transfer @ of data was Kermit.  At that time there was almost no choice of H manufacturers for disks and other in cabinet addins.  Today you may opt F for the HP branded stuff, but you do have choices.  This is what Open H meant when VMS became OpenVMS.  I fought the Open Standards War (and we H won, mostly) and I much prefer VMS in a much more open environment.  Is D it perfect, no but it is better and easier to use VMS in a mixed OS  environment.  G This is not just my humble opinion.  If you do not remember this, then tI find old copies (circa 1988) of Digital Review and read it for yourself.  I   Open VMS is a stupid name for VMS, but making VMS more open was a good e thing.   --     Thomas Wirta Systems Manager  Kittle's Home Furnishingsy Indianapolis, IN   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Oct 2004 02:14:28 -0700r7 From: jones.computer.srv@worldnet.att.net (Daryl Jones)> Subject: Re: Tel. Co. Sys. Op.?a= Message-ID: <8a646952.0410070114.4c324667@posting.google.com>h   Dear Mark Tarka:  A I am not an expert on this subject. However, I ended up being thenC System Manager, DBA, OPS, and application manager in Carrier AccessbC Billing System (CABS) for a cellular company. This is the wholesaleaD billing between CLECS and LECS. The Operating system was VMS on ES40= hardware, 4 processors, with 4 gigabytes of memory. The other D Competitive Local Exchange Carrier (CLEC) and Local Exchange Carrier= (LEC) have similar systems using VMS, Solaris, and other OSs.   ? The basic file is the CDR file (caller detail record), which is C created at the switch by size or by time. Sometimes the CDR file is F converted to a standard file format where anyone can read the file andD process the file no matter what switch created the file. This can beF used for rebuttals for billing conflicts. This would allow either side* of the issue to process the original data.  E After all the CDR files are processed for a one 30-31 days period, ancF invoice is created and sent out. The database will contain the billingD records and the detailed billing records. The detail billing recordsE are not regulated by the government where as the CDR file and billing0 records are regulated.  6 Some of the data in the database is standardize by theA Telecommunication industry and the Government. The Local ExchangesE Routing Guide (LERG) update is down on a monthly basis, which updatesoD the NPA/NXX ownership in your database. NPA (Numbering Plan Area) isE the area code and NXX (Central Office Code) is the first three digitstE of your phone number (NPA-NXX-XXXX). The US is broken up into regionstB known as the LATA (Local Access and Transport Area) One of the 196B local geographical areas in the United States within which a local? telephone company may offer local or long distance services and D Metropolitan Trade Area (MTA), which is geographic market identifier@ (similar to a LATA) assigned by the FCC and used by the cellular	 industry.P  F The cost of a phone call is base upon many factors. The wholesale cost1 can be from $0.001 to $0.01 per minute or higher.n  > I hope this provides some clarity on the subject.  Some Links:  & SS7 - http://www.pt.com/tutorials/ss7/3 Glossary - http://www.pt.com/glossary_complete.html-- LATA - http://www.linktionary.com/l/lata.htmlc  
 Good Luck,   Daryl Jones     l mark_tarka@yahoo.com (Mark Tarka) wrote in message news:<6b70c71c.0410050659.64c27d64@posting.google.com>.../ > Is there a telephone company systems operator0. > in the house (or could you forward this post1 > to one, or anyone who might choose to respond)?t > . > Telephone companies store massive amounts of1 > date (terebytes?), sure to increase as cellular>- > expands.  I've found a small amount of infot3 > on the Net.  I'm interested in what is stored andw > what it costs to retrieve it.w > 3 > First, what's the depth of the data in years fromw+ > today (for how long is information kept)?t > 0 > The classifications of data and storage length4 > depends on location and state/federal regulations.3 > How far back could someone go to find informationa3 > using _all_ the available sources, not just thosen4 > available to lawyers or P.I.s (say regarding white1 > collar criminal activity not discovered until a & > "mole" retired, got fired, or quit)? > 2 > What information is stored (what a consumer sees8 > on the monthly statement -- date, time, number dialed,+ > city, state, duration of call, and cost)?P > 6 > Or is is other than complete billing data, something > abbreviated/condensed? > 6 > Then, what's your typical search and retrieval costs > for out-going calls? > 5 > And, what's your typical search and retrieval costss3 > for _in-coming_ calls (calls made _to_ a specifict > phone number)? > 4 > Now, to keep in touch with the theme of the group,2 > could anyone tell me what o.s. Cray used, and if2 > the company/project is still alive (like for DOD/ > Star Wars or CIC/AWACS/3-D 360 ground/air/seaA& > battle-field info systems/displays)? >  > 3 >   Mark (No, I am not an Al Kaduh operative, but Id3 >         used to play on on c.o.v. many years ago.i7 >         David P. Murphy seems to be in an interestingi= >         position now-a-days; ouch, _that's_ gotta hurt  :-)c > < >   mark_tarka@yahoo.comNOTTOBEUSEDFORSPAMORSTALKINGBEHAVIOR   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Oct 2004 07:57:41 -0700n' From: mark_tarka@yahoo.com (Mark Tarka)u Subject: Re: Tel. Co. Sys. Op.?d= Message-ID: <6b70c71c.0410070657.7ffe31cd@posting.google.com>o  | jones.computer.srv@worldnet.att.net (Daryl Jones) wrote in message news:<8a646952.0410070114.4c324667@posting.google.com>...   > Dear Mark Tarka:  - This alone gets you lunch-money.  Will $10 beF/ enough, or have you potted-out from the stress?9/ Send an address and I'll forward a postal money  order.  oC > I am not an expert on this subject. However, I ended up being thesE > System Manager, DBA, OPS, and application manager in Carrier AccessfE > Billing System (CABS) for a cellular company. This is the wholesalemF > billing between CLECS and LECS. The Operating system was VMS on ES40? > hardware, 4 processors, with 4 gigabytes of memory. The otherAF > Competitive Local Exchange Carrier (CLEC) and Local Exchange Carrier? > (LEC) have similar systems using VMS, Solaris, and other OSs.s  5 And the readers of InfoVAX/c.o.v. will appreciate the ! description of your iron and OSs.c   [snip the personal stuff ...]l    G   Mark (... be quick with the address, before the dollar collapses  :-)    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Oct 2004 08:01:17 -0700u' From: mark_tarka@yahoo.com (Mark Tarka)  Subject: Re: Tel. Co. Sys. Op.? = Message-ID: <6b70c71c.0410070701.33fe16db@posting.google.com>e  f young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) wrote in message news:<RK5DhYiFR2lY@eisner.encompasserve.org>...i > In article <6b70c71c.0410050659.64c27d64@posting.google.com>, mark_tarka@yahoo.com (Mark Tarka) writes:r >  > > 5 > >   Mark (No, I am not an Al Kaduh operative, but Ic5 > >         used to play on on c.o.v. many years ago.s9 > >         David P. Murphy seems to be in an interesting ? > >         position now-a-days; ouch, _that's_ gotta hurt  :-)w > >  >  > Mark,e >  > 	Are you still mobile in NYC?  > 	 > 				Rob   , Very.  Might ... probably, will winter here.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 09:34:14 +0100 - From: John Laird <nospam@laird-towers.org.uk>>- Subject: Re: Update Multiple decnet databaseso8 Message-ID: <mov9m0tk24ha837bn19te2vi7nleh0i939@4ax.com>  4 On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 22:48:48 -0500, David J Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote:   >Marty O'Connor wrote: >> sg >> "David J Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote in message news:416342A8.3E25EE1@comcast.net...># >> : da2341@cedar.ca.sbc.com wrote:a >> : >@ >> : > Does anyone have a command procedure to update new decnet3 >> : > addresses accross multiple decnet databases?o >> :0 >> : If it's a cluster, there's always SYSMAN... >> :1 >> SYSMAN also works between non-clustered nodes.i >b >...provided one has:  > 	 >o DECnete   :-))   -- h: Never put off till tomorrow what you can ignore entirely.    Mail john rather than nospam...?   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Oct 2004 05:23:49 -0700 . From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)- Subject: Re: Update Multiple decnet databasesd= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0410070423.2688cd36@posting.google.com>o  ] "Marty O'Connor" <moconnor@dvfs.com> wrote in message news:<2si6m3F1klhmaU1@uni-berlin.de>... f > "David J Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote in message news:416342A8.3E25EE1@comcast.net..." > : da2341@cedar.ca.sbc.com wrote: > : > ? > : > Does anyone have a command procedure to update new decneto2 > : > addresses accross multiple decnet databases? > :8> > : If it's a cluster, there's always SYSMAN where you can SETD > : ENVIRONMENT/CLUSTER, then DO MCR NCP command... or DO @filespec. > : 0 > SYSMAN also works between non-clustered nodes.  B Only if SMISERVER is running on said nodes. And it may well not be unless you set it up.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 09:43:44 +0200) From: "Andrzej Bugowski" <bandrzej@wp.pl> " Subject: Re: vms and fibre channel. Message-ID: <ck2sak$n8d$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>  H My question is. Which HBA support VMS. I have cheaper storage ADTX Mass M Stora L-series and I would like to connect this storage to VMS. This storage i9 support HBA Emulex and Qlogic. Can I use this HBA on VMS?y  H Uytkownik "Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER" <peter@langstoeger.at> napisa w 6 wiadomoci news:newscache$n1k55i$xq81$1@news.sil.at...  E > In article <ck07p0$6v5$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>, "Andrzej Bugowski" s > <bandrzej@wp.pl> writes:5 >>I would like to ask all. VMS support fibre channel.' >a > And the answer is: 17a > No, it's not. It is: Yes >n > What was your question ? >  > -- i > Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERr' > Network and OpenVMS system specialistb > E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atI > A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist     ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 13:42:59 GMTu1 From: Keith Parris <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com>o Subject: Re: What is HP anyway?i/ Message-ID: <DJb9d.267$A86.22@news.cpqcorp.net>g   John Smith wrote:SK > See... now the Press is confused....here they are thinking that HP is the.N > digital camera and LCD TV company, and HP suddenly springs printers on them.  I HP is all of those things, and is also recognized as a computer company. -> A combination of diversity of new products spread around core F competencies is an advantage for HP's success (and by implication the  success of OpenVMS).  F It's really nice when you can have vast-majority market share in some I market area, like Intel in microprocessors, Cisco in networks, Oracle in iH databases, or HP in printers. Leadership products (and profits) in that C area can help fund continued leadership not only in that area, but   others as well.   G In the late '90s the management fad of the day was "stick to your core nF competencies and get rid of the rest", and the result was that Palmer G sold off enough "non-core" pieces of DEC that it became slim enough to eG be bought by Compaq. IBM started down that road also in the early '90s u  until Gerstner put a stop to it.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 07:18:51 -0700d# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>  Subject: Re: What is HP anyway?d( Message-ID: <opsfh7dpk4zgicya@hyrrokkin>  0 On Thu, 07 Oct 2004 13:42:59 GMT, Keith Parris  % <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote:0   > John Smith wrote:oJ >> See... now the Press is confused....here they are thinking that HP is   >> theK >> digital camera and LCD TV company, and HP suddenly springs printers on  u >> them. >eL > HP is all of those things, and is also recognized as a computer company.  A > A combination of diversity of new products spread around core   I > competencies is an advantage for HP's success (and by implication the  e > success of OpenVMS). >cI > It's really nice when you can have vast-majority market share in some  aL > market area, like Intel in microprocessors, Cisco in networks, Oracle in  K > databases, or HP in printers. Leadership products (and profits) in that  LF > area can help fund continued leadership not only in that area, but   > others as well.v  G Subsidies never work, in the long run.  Businesses have to stand on itse own merits.a   >aJ > In the late '90s the management fad of the day was "stick to your core  I > competencies and get rid of the rest", and the result was that Palmer   J > sold off enough "non-core" pieces of DEC that it became slim enough to  J > be bought by Compaq. IBM started down that road also in the early '90s  " > until Gerstner put a stop to it.  H I think you will get a lot of argument about what the core pieces really were.i   HP has following business linesc 1. Printers: 	Profitable, Field Leader    2. Microsoft based commodities+ 	tight margins, little or no added HP Valuee? 	Dell makes equivalent or better product and has better margins    3. OpenVMS platforms7 	High margins, Reliable, scalable, best of breed for DR , 	remote clustering, oddly not promoted by HP1 	Discontinued VAX dev in favor of Alpha, bad moveeE 		did not port many products, (e.g., DECdocument, VAXSCAN, SDL, etc.)e% 		shed many products (e.g. RdB, etc.)d0 	Discontined Alpha in favor of Itanium, bad move1 		did not port many products, (e.g., PL/I, etc.)	T 	Itanium doubtful future   4. Unix Platformsa9 	HP-UX inferior to Tru64.  Replacable with Solaris or AIXj8 	Itanium problem as above, not as many third party apps.   5. Linux Platforms3 	Lower cost alternative to Microsoft on the Desktop # 	low margin, commodity item. Ho-Humm   6. NSK platforms! 	Niche market.  No interest here.u  - HP puts big focus 2 and 5 followed by 4, why?>  E I recently spoke with one of the largest financial firms and they aree phasing out VMS because, 1. it is old& 2. HP doesn't promote it no brand name  E What is needed is rebranding and market push (sound like john Smith?)y Sell it for it's strengths.l  I Look what IBM did.  Call it VX running on V-series, A-series and I-serieseJ and, Oh by the way, instead of emulating X86 on Itanium, do VAX, you mightI keep some of the 10**5 customers.  In fact drop Itanium as a bad idea and $ go back to EV8 and also emulate VAX.         -- rC Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/W   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 10:00:25 -0400< From: "Peter Weaver" <WeaverConsultingServices@sympatico.ca>Y Subject: Re: www.hp.com/go... URL links (was: Re: Maximum file size, FAQ v. "Guide to Ope0+ Message-ID: <2sl0fuF1mcn1qU1@uni-berlin.de>e   warren sander wrote:B > These are the current OpenVMS marketing url's (plus Doc, rtr andC > spd's) I'm the person who requests them for the OpenVMS site.. IfrC > there is a shortcut url you'd like to have created let me know...k > ...   F Thanks Warren, that list (with JF's addition) is now my home page. ButH you might want to remove www.hp.com/go/openvms/alphaserver since it does. not work anymore. I get The requested documentF "http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms_alphaserver.html?OpenVMSlaunch=BCS" was not found on this server.k   -- e Peter Weaver Weaver Consulting Services Inc.  Canadian VAR for CHARON-VAXs www.weaverconsulting.ca.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.557 ************************