1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 08 Oct 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 558       Contents: Re: As seen in WSJ Re: Backup & NFS# Re: Disabling Video Card for X Boot ! Re: Disk corruption and Pathworks  Re: EVA vs. bunch of MSA?  Re: Fragmention and SAN disks  ftp directory (ls) format  Re: ftp directory (ls) format  Re: ftp directory (ls) format ' How to get BACKUP /TAPE_EXPIRATION date + Re: How to get BACKUP /TAPE_EXPIRATION date + Re: How to get BACKUP /TAPE_EXPIRATION date + Re: How to get BACKUP /TAPE_EXPIRATION date + Re: How to get BACKUP /TAPE_EXPIRATION date + Re: How to get BACKUP /TAPE_EXPIRATION date / Re: HP Lands More than 200 Sun Server customers / Re: HP Lands More than 200 Sun Server customers A IBM knows how to market - Does HP even know how to spell OpenVMS?  Ingres II and MP Sync rate Re: Ingres II and MP Sync rate Re: Ingres II and MP Sync rate* Re: Need LK461 keyboard and 3 button mouseO Re: Obsucure Inquier article about Intel mentions VMS (and not any  other  OS') O Re: Obsucure Inquier article about Intel mentions VMS (and not any  other  OS') O Re: Obsucure Inquier article about Intel mentions VMS (and not any  other  OS') H Re: Obsucure Inquier article about Intel mentions VMS (and not any otherH Re: Obsucure Inquier article about Intel mentions VMS (and not any otherH Re: Obsucure Inquier article about Intel mentions VMS (and not any otherH Re: Obsucure Inquier article about Intel mentions VMS (and not any otherH Re: Obsucure Inquier article about Intel mentions VMS (and not any otherH Re: Obsucure Inquier article about Intel mentions VMS (and not any other! RE: OpenVMS non-advertising today ! Re: OpenVMS non-advertising today ! Re: OpenVMS non-advertising today ! Re: OpenVMS non-advertising today  Re: Stray Symbiont Processes Re: vms and fibre channel  Re: What is HP anyway? Re: What is HP anyway? Re: www.hp.com/go... URL linksP Re: www.hp.com/go... URL links (was: Re: Maximum file size, FAQ v.   "Guide to OP Re: www.hp.com/go... URL links (was: Re: Maximum file size, FAQ v. "Guide to Ope4 X11 Forwarding problems without an interactive shell  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 22:42:57 -0400* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> Subject: Re: As seen in WSJ = Message-ID: <geWdnYCklMPKY_jcRVn-oQ@metrocastcablevision.com>   : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message& news:41643E80.6F284A37@teksavvy.com... > David Svensson wrote: A > > Another thing is that they don't have to move to go to Intel.  >  > I > How integrated in Intel can they be if they are is Mass and the rest of  the - > IA64 team is in some other far away state ?   L I suspect that there isn't all that much other IA64 work going in Intel thatL the Alpha people have a great deal of interest in being 'integrated' with' -D save possibly portions of the Tukwila chipset that they aren't doingF themselves (where the interfaces are presumably quite clearly defined,C especially if they're being shared with Xeons, as has been stated).    - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 19:45:37 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> Subject: Re: Backup & NFS + Message-ID: <4165E331.799A64FB@comcast.net>    JOUKJ wrote: >  > Dale Dellutri wrote:P > > On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 12:40:31 +0200, JOUKJ <joukj@hrem.stm.tudelft.nl> wrote: > > F > >>I'm trying to backup NFS mounted filesystems to tape using the VMS > >>backup command.  > >>I get some weird errors: > >  > > P > >>%BACKUP-E-OPENDIR, error opening directory TARANTELLA$ROOT:[HOME.JOUKJ.PLOT]& > >>-SYSTEM-W-NOSUCHFILE, no such fileJ > >>%BACKUP-E-OPENIN, error opening TARANTELLA$ROOT:[HOME.JOUKJ]PLOT.DIR;1 > >>as input& > >>-SYSTEM-W-NOSUCHFILE, no such file > >  > > E > >>The error ocuurs when the NFS mounted file systems are physically I > >>located on a PC with Fedora core 2. (File systems located on an Alpha * > >>with Redhat 7.x seem to be unaffected)L > >>The files which "cannot be found" are always directory files, and always > >>the same directory files.  > >  > > B > >>I'm running OpenVMS 7.3-2 with HP-TCP/IP-services V5.4 - ECO 2 > >  > > 8 > >>Anybody any idea where to look to solve the problem:A > >>      is it HP--TCP/IP so that I can use my service contract? < > >>      or is the problem more likely to be Fedora core 2? > >  > > A > > This looks like a permissions or symbolic link problem.  What  > > is the output of > >   ls -l /home/joukj/plot > > and  > >   ls -ld /home/joukj/plot F > > on the tarantella FC2 system?  How does the output differ from theB > > same commands pointing to directory files that do not have the > > problem? > > M > I do not see any difference: plot is not OK end pesch in the same dir is OK  > aaee-jj ) ls -ld plot 3 > drwx------  3 joukj joukj 20480 Oct  5 09:34 plot   5 Hhmmm... That permissions mask looks suspect to me...    I would have expected:  1 drwx--x--x  3 joukj joukj 20480 Oct  5 09:34 plot   B ...at the the very least, unless there's an ACL in the scenario toE over-ride the lack of group or world permission, or the NFS daemon is ( running with root privilege (*SHUDDER*).   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 14:54:25 -0400* From: "Bobby Coleman" <colemanrl@ornl.gov>, Subject: Re: Disabling Video Card for X Boot( Message-ID: <ck43d5$ggj$1@sws1.ornl.gov>  K Thanks to everyone.  I really appreciate the help.  I tried the additional  M suggestions and they worked well (i.e., edited entries in the private_server  ( startup procedure for a single display).   Bobby    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 00:39:05 -04005 From: "Jim Hibbits" <jhibbits two at comcast dot net> * Subject: Re: Disk corruption and Pathworks0 Message-ID: <g5SdnQjMMIb4h_vcRVn-ow@comcast.com>  K Call me crazy, but this sounds like a cache inconsistency problem!  Classic  case...   D Are you running a third-party cacher?  Are you running any of the HP built-in cachers?   Jim Hibbits  Raxco Software jhibbits at raxco dot com   B "Tom Simpson" <thomas.simpson1@fubar.comcast.net> wrote in message) news:4p19d.344875$Fg5.335468@attbi_s53... H > I've had a second occurrence of disk/directory corruption in 3 months. The J > affected directory was the same logical disk directory both times.  ThisJ > directory is a Pathworks share and it's prime use is to send and receiveL > files from client systems, both Windows and Unix.  We are running a 2-nodeK > homogeneous cluster configuration on ES40's using OpenVMS Alpha 7.3-1 and A > Advanced Server (the version that came with VMS 7.3-1) w/ECO 2.  > K > No other directories have issues and I see no problem with the disk drive  > (it's on an EMC SAN).    ------------------------------   Date: 8 Oct 2004 06:40:13 GMT 7 From: yehavi@vms.huji.ac.il (Yehavi Bourvine (58-4279)) " Subject: Re: EVA vs. bunch of MSA?$ Message-ID: <2004Oct8.064013@hujicc>   Hello,  F I have an EVA-5,000 in production for about a year and a half and I am0 satisfied with it (performance and reliability).  > > - MSA doesn't require Management Appliance. Windows machine 9 > in the heart of storage network makes me a bit nervous.   P As others said it only manages the appliance, not your data... I had a few casesH (after a disk failed) when the EVA went into inconsistent state (disk isH available but not available...) and I've found that only the manageement appliance got confused; F a reboot to  the appliance fixed the things, which means that  the EVAE controller itself was still in a consistent state and worked properly ) (no interruption to the working systems).   O Just keep your management appliance diisconncted from your network; its Windows  is not up to date (usually...).   K Also - keep some of the disk space unused (do not use all space for virtual M disks) so when a physical disk fails you still have margin for rebuilding the J RAID sets and conntinue in "full redundancy" mode without the failed disk.  6                                              __Yehavi;   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 00:33:19 -04005 From: "Jim Hibbits" <jhibbits two at comcast dot net> & Subject: Re: Fragmention and SAN disks0 Message-ID: <88KdnVNWNouShPvcRVn-hQ@comcast.com>  9 > %COPY-W-CBT, insufficient contiguous space, file copied  > non-contiguously > C > I'm copying files to a VMS shadowset that consist of Fibrechannel E > disks in a SAN.  That message implies file fragmentation, but I was D > told we wouldn't have to worry about fragmentation on the SAN. Can > anyone offer any insight?   G Actually, the problem comes in the realm of "not enough contiguous free  space." E File fragmentation contributes to the problem, of course, but so does I scattered pieces of fixed space, i.e., that which cannot be moved by COPY I or certain defragmenters.  This would be space occupied by files that are  open, 
 for instance.   F If you _need_ the file to be contiguous, then you should plan on this, through E defragmenting the disk, or using BACKUP //  RESTORE techinques to try J to maximize the free space, _then_ place the file on the (virtual?) drive.  H Fragmentation is an issue on SAN disks, just as it was on single-spindle drives. E Though the work is done by the controller, the effort involved delays 
 completionK of the QIOs issued to perform the work.  It looks good to the host, but the J SAN machine still must do the work.  CPU (in the SAN) or in the host meansI a slow-down in data access.  If you're doing host-based SAN kinda things, D then the whole host-as-a-file-server overhead issue comes into play.  G Extra work for the file system means extra CPU overhead, and extra head F movement.  If you _need_ the max disk performance, you should considerH practicing "smart disk" and keeping the drives in reasonable, accessable shape.C That is, low file density, lots of free space, constant monitoring.   J A worthy defragmenter, or a disk-to-tape-to-disk procedure can enhance theH performance, but, in todays world, the BACKUP solution takes enough time to ruin a marriage!!! :)  G I'd recommend a decent defragger, but only if you _NEED_ the file to be A contiguous.  Defraggers:  DFO (HP), PerfectDisk (Raxco Software), L Diskeeper (Executive Software), are the most popular, though not necessarilyI in that order.  If you have alot of "unmovable space", the only defragger  that  can deal with it is PerfectDisk.  @ I must reveal my basis of interest:  I work for Raxco, vendor of PerfectDisk.   Jim Hibbits  jhibbits at raxco dot com    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Oct 2004 15:32:58 -0700 , From: JimStrehlow@data911.com (Jim Strehlow)" Subject: ftp directory (ls) format= Message-ID: <4b6ec350.0410071432.6f99d372@posting.google.com>   E The FTP portion of the H.P. TCP/IP Unix Services for OpenVMS only has  DIRECTORY  (OpenVMS format)  or ls         (Unix-style)   5 but the Unix-style is only filename and nothing else.   E Can we get another FTP product that will work independently of the HP B UCX stack that will return a directory listing in a format such as  8 drwxrwxr-x   2 508      510          4096 Oct  7 09:06 A8 -rwxrwxr-x   1 508      510        589824 Nov  7  2003 B8 drwxrwxr-x   2 508      510          4096 Oct  5 16:27 C8 -rw-rw-r--   1 504      510       1351680 Jul 28 13:14 D8 drwxrwxr-x   5 508      510          4096 Oct  7 11:01 E  E One of our developers is using a WS_FTP component that parses results D of ls; but that component is not returning desirable results because9 it expects the format above but is getting fed the format  A  B  C  D  E   - and does not parse that output appropriately.   ? What "add on" FTP should we get (for OpenVMS AlphaServer v7.3)?  TIA.   Jim, Alameda, CA, USA    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 23:55:29 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing)& Subject: Re: ftp directory (ls) format6 Message-ID: <00A39016.EA55613A@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  l In article <4b6ec350.0410071432.6f99d372@posting.google.com>, JimStrehlow@data911.com (Jim Strehlow) writes:F >The FTP portion of the H.P. TCP/IP Unix Services for OpenVMS only has >DIRECTORY  (OpenVMS format) >or  >ls         (Unix-style) > 6 >but the Unix-style is only filename and nothing else. > F >Can we get another FTP product that will work independently of the HPC >UCX stack that will return a directory listing in a format such as  > 9 >drwxrwxr-x   2 508      510          4096 Oct  7 09:06 A 9 >-rwxrwxr-x   1 508      510        589824 Nov  7  2003 B 9 >drwxrwxr-x   2 508      510          4096 Oct  5 16:27 C 9 >-rw-rw-r--   1 504      510       1351680 Jul 28 13:14 D 9 >drwxrwxr-x   5 508      510          4096 Oct  7 11:01 E  > F >One of our developers is using a WS_FTP component that parses resultsE >of ls; but that component is not returning desirable results because : >it expects the format above but is getting fed the format >A >B >C >D >E > . >and does not parse that output appropriately. > @ >What "add on" FTP should we get (for OpenVMS AlphaServer v7.3)? >TIA.     N HGFTP (formerly MGFTP, although it turns out that there's now another PC-world: MGFTP).  Now up to 3.1-2, but from some old release notes:  1   2.2    New Features and Bug fixes in MGFTP V2.3   >           o  The MadGoat FTP Server can now generate directory9              listings in a UNIX-style format, for greater =              compatibility with browsers that think the world =              only runs UNIX. When the logical MADGOAT_FTP_DO_ >              UNIX_LS is defined, the MGFTP server will produce=              directory listings similar to those generated by =              UNIX servers if the specified path is in a UNIX- ;              style format. By equating the logical with the ?              value "ALWAYS", you can force the server to always *              generate UNIX-style listings.  : http://vms.process.com/scripts/fileserv/fileserv.com?HGFTP   -- Alan    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 19:46:58 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> & Subject: Re: ftp directory (ls) format, Message-ID: <4165D565.F02AD22A@teksavvy.com>   Jim Strehlow wrote: G > One of our developers is using a WS_FTP component that parses results F > of ls; but that component is not returning desirable results because; > it expects the format above but is getting fed the format   5 From : ftp://ftp.rfc-editor.org/in-notes/std/std9.txt    NAME LIST (NLST)  C             This command causes a directory listing to be sent from ?             server to user site.  The pathname should specify a G             directory or other system-specific file group descriptor; a D             null argument implies the current directory.  The server?             will return a stream of names of files and no other B             information.  The data will be transferred in ASCII orB             EBCDIC type over the data connection as valid pathnameF             strings separated by <CRLF> or <NL>.  (Again the user mustG             ensure that the TYPE is correct.)  This command is intended B             to return information that can be used by a program toE             further process the files automatically.  For example, in <             the implementation of a "multiple get" function.     LIST (LIST)   H             This command causes a list to be sent from the server to theH             passive DTP.  If the pathname specifies a directory or otherF             group of files, the server should transfer a list of filesD             in the specified directory.  If the pathname specifies aG             file then the server should send current information on the H             file.  A null argument implies the user's current working orB             default directory.  The data transfer is over the dataD             connection in type ASCII or type EBCDIC.  (The user mustC             ensure that the TYPE is appropriately ASCII or EBCDIC). N  ------------------------------------------------------------------------            G             Since the information on a file may vary widely from system H             to system, this information may be hard to use automaticallyB             in a program, but may be quite useful to a human user.N ------------------------------------------------------------------------                G Note that the protocol doesn't seem to contain any "LS" command. (LS is + probably converted by your client to LIST).    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 13:20:46 -0500 ( From: brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon)0 Subject: How to get BACKUP /TAPE_EXPIRATION date1 Message-ID: <04100713204687@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>   L I thought it would be a good idea to use the  BACKUP /TAPE_EXPIRATION=<date>0 to prevent us from over-writting recent backups.  D I just ran into an instance that this strategy worked.  All to well.  H The problem, we are a lights out shop, and the backup generated an OPCOMB request for the operator to fix the problem.  No operator on duty.  F %BACKUP-W-MOUNTERR, volume 1 on _MYNODE$MKD400 was not mounted because%  its expiration date is in the future < %BACKUP-I-OPERASSIST, operator assistance has been requested+ %BACKUP-I-OPREPLY, operator reply is "QUIT" 8 %BACKUP-F-ABORT, operator requested abort on fatal error    J So I got to thinking I should mount the tape and check for TAPE EXPIRATIONN before I proceed with the backup.  That way I can detect an error and send out a page.       
 I am stumped.   I How can I do this using LEXICALS (don't see it) or a FORTRAN application?      TIA      J*o*h*n B*r*a*n*d*o*n  VMS Systems Administrator * firstname.lastname.spam.me.not@dalsemi.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 20:06:12 +0100 - From: John Laird <nospam@laird-towers.org.uk> 4 Subject: Re: How to get BACKUP /TAPE_EXPIRATION date8 Message-ID: <pc4bm0hhq87he8os2mfbodce0ndnjmij4b@4ax.com>  F On Thu, 07 Oct 2004 13:20:46 -0500, brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon) wrote:  K >So I got to thinking I should mount the tape and check for TAPE EXPIRATION O >before I proceed with the backup.  That way I can detect an error and send out  >a page. >  >I am stumped. > J >How can I do this using LEXICALS (don't see it) or a FORTRAN application?  K The Guide to VMS File Applications suggests that the expiration date of the K first file on a tape volume is used for the entire volume.  Whether you can F get that from F$FILE or RMS I am not sure.  You could mount the volumeJ /foreign and read the first few headers.  They are simple records, and theF expiration date is in HDR1.  There appear to be Y2K issues with it ;-)  ? Or you can INIT without /OVER=EXPIRATION and catch the error...    --  ( We're lost, but we're making good time.    Mail john rather than nospam...    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 17:13:49 -0500 ( From: brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon)4 Subject: Re: How to get BACKUP /TAPE_EXPIRATION date1 Message-ID: <04100717134949@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>    John Laird wrote: A > Or you can INIT without /OVER=EXPIRATION and catch the error...    Missed the without.  Sorry.        J*o*h*n B*r*a*n*d*o*n  VMS Systems Administrator * firstname.lastname.spam.me.not@dalsemi.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 17:13:00 -0500 ( From: brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon)4 Subject: Re: How to get BACKUP /TAPE_EXPIRATION date1 Message-ID: <04100717130044@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>    John Laird wrote: M > The Guide to VMS File Applications suggests that the expiration date of the M > first file on a tape volume is used for the entire volume.  Whether you can H > get that from F$FILE or RMS I am not sure.  You could mount the volumeL > /foreign and read the first few headers.  They are simple records, and theH > expiration date is in HDR1.  There appear to be Y2K issues with it ;-)   Ugh.  A > Or you can INIT without /OVER=EXPIRATION and catch the error...   H This will work - sort of - with out the /OVER=EXPIR (kind of defeats the. purpose of tape expiration in the first place)  ' $ INIT /MED=COMP MYNODE$MKD400: MYTAPE1 & %INIT-F-FILNOTEXP, file is not expired $ SHOW SYMBOL $STATUS    $STATUS == "%X107500B4"   ? By first attempting an INIT I can capture a success or failure.   L However my one concern would be that we put an archive tape in the slot thatL did not have the /TAPE_EXPIRATION in the first place and *BAM* no more tape.  L I am surprised that when you mount the tape that this information is (1) notN displayed immediately or (2) accessible via LEXICAL function - as is SWL, MNT, etc.         J*o*h*n B*r*a*n*d*o*n  VMS Systems Administrator * firstname.lastname.spam.me.not@dalsemi.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 23:34:23 +0100 - From: John Laird <nospam@laird-towers.org.uk> 4 Subject: Re: How to get BACKUP /TAPE_EXPIRATION date8 Message-ID: <0ogbm0thp0p03oijr1ir5kdoncmhpa7590@4ax.com>  F On Thu, 07 Oct 2004 17:13:00 -0500, brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon) wrote:  M >However my one concern would be that we put an archive tape in the slot that M >did not have the /TAPE_EXPIRATION in the first place and *BAM* no more tape.   I We usually do a MOUNT first to make sure we are going to overwrite a tape K from the right "set" (ie. with an expected label, or blank).  Tape handling K very quickly gets messy indeed.  I doubt there's a system mangler out there 7 who hasn't at some stage wiped out a tape accidentally.   M >I am surprised that when you mount the tape that this information is (1) not O >displayed immediately or (2) accessible via LEXICAL function - as is SWL, MNT,  >etc.   J I suppose it is not *strictly* a volume characteristic.  However, as MOUNTD will check such things for you, something like a MOUNT/DISPLAY whichI produced a few lines of descriptive output (label, ownership, protection, J dates existence of ANSI labels) would be nice.  At the end of the day, you0 can write such a utility fairly easily, however.   --  0 Marriage: It's not only a word, but a sentence!    Mail john rather than nospam...    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Oct 2004 19:27:15 -0700 . From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)4 Subject: Re: How to get BACKUP /TAPE_EXPIRATION date= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0410071827.4b477620@posting.google.com>   a brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon) wrote in message news:<04100713204687@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>... N > I thought it would be a good idea to use the  BACKUP /TAPE_EXPIRATION=<date>2 > to prevent us from over-writting recent backups. > F > I just ran into an instance that this strategy worked.  All to well. > J > The problem, we are a lights out shop, and the backup generated an OPCOMD > request for the operator to fix the problem.  No operator on duty. > H > %BACKUP-W-MOUNTERR, volume 1 on _MYNODE$MKD400 was not mounted because' >  its expiration date is in the future > > %BACKUP-I-OPERASSIST, operator assistance has been requested- > %BACKUP-I-OPREPLY, operator reply is "QUIT" : > %BACKUP-F-ABORT, operator requested abort on fatal error >  > L > So I got to thinking I should mount the tape and check for TAPE EXPIRATIONP > before I proceed with the backup.  That way I can detect an error and send out	 > a page.  >  >  >  > I am stumped.  > K > How can I do this using LEXICALS (don't see it) or a FORTRAN application?  >  >  > TIA  >  >  > J*o*h*n B*r*a*n*d*o*n  > VMS Systems Administrator , > firstname.lastname.spam.me.not@dalsemi.com  + Can't try it now, but this is what I'd try:   + $ MOUNT MKD400: /OVER=ID !(or supply label) : $ FILE = F$SEARCH("MKD400:*.*") ! if filename is not known $ EXPIDATE = F$FILE(FILE,"EDT")   E The expiration dates of all files on the tape will be the same as the ' expiration date that is written at BOT.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 16:06:00 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 8 Subject: Re: HP Lands More than 200 Sun Server customers, Message-ID: <4165A1A7.15CB7D8B@teksavvy.com>  ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:@ > But imagine that the HP one trick pony suddenly became OpenVMS/ > now that would in fact be a dissaster for HP,   M And Lance Armstrong didn't suddently get up from his cancer treatment bed and H win the Tour de France. It takes hard work and patience to recover one's< competitiveness and that also requires long term commitment.  L VMS has been suffering from terminal cancer for over a decade now. HP cannotK "suddently" pin all its hopes on VMS. It needs to first stop the cancer (by I announcing HP will take ownership of VMS , stop mistakes done by previous G owners and leverage VMS' potential as a stratetig competitive advantage E against Sun/IBM/Dell) and then slowly bring VMS up to speed with both J marketing and bring its application portofolio back into the 21st century.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 17:03:04 -0400# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> 8 Subject: Re: HP Lands More than 200 Sun Server customers, Message-ID: <eN-dnaNasYWVMvjcRVn-qQ@igs.net>   JF Mezei wrote: * > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:A >> But imagine that the HP one trick pony suddenly became OpenVMS 0 >> now that would in fact be a dissaster for HP, > G > And Lance Armstrong didn't suddently get up from his cancer treatment D > bed and win the Tour de France. It takes hard work and patience to@ > recover one's competitiveness and that also requires long term
 > commitment.  > G > VMS has been suffering from terminal cancer for over a decade now. HP E > cannot "suddently" pin all its hopes on VMS. It needs to first stop @ > the cancer (by announcing HP will take ownership of VMS , stopC > mistakes done by previous owners and leverage VMS' potential as a G > stratetig competitive advantage against Sun/IBM/Dell) and then slowly E > bring VMS up to speed with both marketing and bring its application ( > portofolio back into the 21st century.    C Do you have one iota of confidence that HP management will do this?    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 17:28:48 -0400# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> J Subject: IBM knows how to market - Does HP even know how to spell OpenVMS?, Message-ID: <c9mdne9n1LmNKPjcRVn-jA@igs.net>  L http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=1208&e=3&u=/infoworld/20041# 007/tc_infoworld/48416&sid=96742471      IBM renews vows to mainframe     Bob Francis     E San Francisco (InfoWorld) - IBM shored up commitment to its mainframe J computing platform Thursday with a series of new technologies, investmentsJ in emerging markets, new industry-focused solutions, and new partnerships.  E "Over the past 40 years, we've witnessed businesses evolve from a few I transactions per week to millions of transactions per second," said Erich L Clementi, general manager of the IBM eServer zSeries. "Today, businesses areL designing infrastructures intended for the next 20 years, and we are teamingK with them to build these global, on-demand computing fabrics that link tens @ of thousands of users across open infrastructures, and extendingL datacenter-level security to the edges of their vast network. This is a time" for mainframe computing," he said.  K IBM is making the announcements at customer events in Paris, Tokyo, and New D York. The strategy is aimed at expanding the mainframe's role as theJ foundation for multi-platform on-demand enterprise computing. According toJ Clay Ryder, analyst at the Sageza Group, the announcements demonstrate BigH Blue's commitment to its zSeries platform. "The zSeries has continued toJ have momentum, and these announcements show a commitment to the future and. continued viability of the platform," he said.  F The new technology enhancements include a new z/Transaction ProcessingJ Facility (TPF) operating system designed for high availability transactionJ processing in the travel, banking, finance, and public sector markets. TheF new system supports 64-bit zSeries mainframe architectures and will be5 capable of processing 25,000 transactions per second.   F Other technology enhancements include offering zSeries support for IBMC Virtualization Engine Systems Services with the initial delivery of H Enterprise Workload Manager for z/OS planned for the fourth quarter. IBMI will also introduce GDPS Hyperswap Manager for single site recovery early G next year. IBM also plans to improve security for credit card purchases   using TKE Smart Card technology.  J In the investment realm, IBM will open a new multimillion-dollar mainframeH proof of concept and benchmarking laboratory in Beijing and increase IBMG technical sales support and services in China to help businesses deploy G mainframes. The company will also expand its working relationships with K universities in China to develop courses and curriculum to train future IBM = mainframe-skilled workers in that rapidly developing country.   F IBM is also introducing new industry-focused solutions including a newB mainframe-anchored, on-demand operating environment for banking in Montpellier, France.  L IBM plans to demonstrate how a flexible on-demand infrastructure centered onG an IBM mainframe can enable banks to roll our new customer programs and F services rapidly, improve security, and handle IT planned or unplannedJ downtime. IBM will also expand industry-focused solutions at other centers around the world.   H IBM also expanded several partnerships with independent software vendorsC such as Computer Associates and BMC Software to improve application D availability on the IBM mainframe and improve usage-based pricing ofC software on mainframes. The company is also partnering with several L universities around the world to create 20,000 new mainframe-trained workers by 2010.   ============  L Mainframes are as proprietary as it gets yet IBM continues to invest heavilyD in not only R&D, but advertising, marketing, and education for these	 products.   K I think IBM has been reading the suggestions we have been writing about for F OpenVMS in c.o.v. .  HP has been reading tarot cards and Ouiji boards.   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Oct 2004 11:05:08 -0700  From: panjo03@gmail.com (J Pan) # Subject: Ingres II and MP Sync rate = Message-ID: <239873d6.0410071005.19b78951@posting.google.com>    Hi All  @ I am cross posting to the try and get help from both the VMS and Ingres communities.   F I am currently on site, which is running IngresII 2.0 on a GS160 Alpha/ with 14 cpus and 21 GB memory on OpenVMS 7.3-1. E This machine is clustered with 6 others a mixture of 8400s, 4100s and  an ES40.B The ingres installation is NOT clustered. The gs160 machine is theB database server and an ES40 machine is acting as the client server# where all the client users connect.   E Besides having problems with locking on the gs160, lots of batch jobs D running on the db server as well - the systems people have noticed aE spike in the MP Synchronization rate > 150%. They have suggested that = this might be the results of having been running modifies and E optimisedb on the database which has been restarted 2 weeks ago after ! and absense of a couple of years.   D I cannot believe this to be the case. I am in real need here of someE help in explaining this to the system people. I lack understanding in D this area, but believe that the modifes and optimisation are not the cause of this.  : There has been a belief here on this site that modifys andE optimisations are not helpful hence they stopped two years or so ago. > It has been a battle for me here to restart them and I can seeA positive results in some of the queries already but now figting a  battle in unfamiliar territory.   A If its not the mods/opt then what could it be? How do I find out.    thanks john   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Oct 2004 15:56:13 -0700 . From: fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso)' Subject: Re: Ingres II and MP Sync rate = Message-ID: <f30679fb.0410071456.6f3581d6@posting.google.com>   d panjo03@gmail.com (J Pan) wrote in message news:<239873d6.0410071005.19b78951@posting.google.com>... > Hi All > B > I am cross posting to the try and get help from both the VMS and > Ingres communities.  > H > I am currently on site, which is running IngresII 2.0 on a GS160 Alpha1 > with 14 cpus and 21 GB memory on OpenVMS 7.3-1. G > This machine is clustered with 6 others a mixture of 8400s, 4100s ands
 > an ES40.D > The ingres installation is NOT clustered. The gs160 machine is theD > database server and an ES40 machine is acting as the client server% > where all the client users connect.     F Migrate to Oracle RDB if possible ! May be you can have good discountsC from Oracle if you change the database system and wou will not pay N US$ 40 K per processor.C  2 But, is Ingres becoming opensource for OVMS too ?      Regardsd   FC eG > Besides having problems with locking on the gs160, lots of batch jobsXF > running on the db server as well - the systems people have noticed aG > spike in the MP Synchronization rate > 150%. They have suggested thats? > this might be the results of having been running modifies and G > optimisedb on the database which has been restarted 2 weeks ago afterL# > and absense of a couple of years.  > F > I cannot believe this to be the case. I am in real need here of someG > help in explaining this to the system people. I lack understanding ineF > this area, but believe that the modifes and optimisation are not the > cause of this. > < > There has been a belief here on this site that modifys andG > optimisations are not helpful hence they stopped two years or so ago.a@ > It has been a battle for me here to restart them and I can seeC > positive results in some of the queries already but now figting aM! > battle in unfamiliar territory.I > C > If its not the mods/opt then what could it be? How do I find out.I >  > thanks > john   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 11:16:03 +0800e@ From: Tim Sneddon <first-initiallastname@bsddotinfomedia.com.au>' Subject: Re: Ingres II and MP Sync ratee+ Message-ID: <2smf6nF1md5ffU1@uni-berlin.de>    Fabio Cardoso wrote: > 4 > But, is Ingres becoming opensource for OVMS too ?  >   9 There is aupposed to be a release quite soon. The code ise6 common, it's just the build procedures that need to be5 sorted out. According to CA they are moving away fromo8 a collection of DCL,MMS and others to Jam (also used for Windows and Linux).-  
 Regards, Tim.-   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 03:07:47 GMTl  From: John Santos <john@egh.com>3 Subject: Re: Need LK461 keyboard and 3 button mouseP* Message-ID: <7wn9d.12379$na.5347@trnddc04>   James Nykiel wrote:o > Greetings: >  > G > I am in the process of putting together an AlphaStation 200 system oneH > which to learn OpenVMS.  I would like to obtain the following items to+ > help complete my AlphaStation 200 system.f > * > (1) LK461-A2 - 108 Key OpenVMS Keyboard.  > (1) PCXAS-AB - 3 Button Mouse. > L > I have recently checked eBay but have had no luck in locating these items.K > If you have either or both of these items and the are in decent conditiontF > I would be interested in purchasing them if the price is right as my* > budget is somewhat limited at this time. >  > Note:  > I > I am not sure if the PCXAS-AB 3 Button Mouse is the best choice for useaJ > with an AlphaStation 200 running OpenVMS and DECWindows.  I know I couldL > probably use almost any brand PS/2 mouse but would like to stay with a DEC > mouse. >  >  > Thank you... - James NykielB  E I found a DEC 30-46117-01 mouse in the 99-cent mouse bin next to the 63 checkout counter at the Cambridge Mass MicroCenter.f  E Not sure if this is a PCXAS-AB, but it is identical with the one thata$ came with my AlphaStation 200 4/100.  * I think any PS-2 3-button mouse will work.   -- U John Santose Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Oct 2004 19:23:52 -0500r+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)DX Subject: Re: Obsucure Inquier article about Intel mentions VMS (and not any  other  OS')3 Message-ID: <Djlzfe8EunXB@eisner.encompasserve.org>   g In article <GZe9d.305$Sv6.107@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com> writes:u   > L > I don't like talking to you, I'm sorry, because you want to turn a factualN > response about what we have available, into a debate about what we should beE > doing - or how incompetent we all are here at HP.  That might be anwN > interesting conversation to some, but I am tired of it - and you are talking > to the wrong person. >   = 	Well... nothing new.  Johnny Smyth along the same lines.  Go > 	back 10 years, many more cryin' and moaning.  We're left withE 	JF ,  JS , AH and a few others to cry and moan and many of the more  ) 	serious techies have ended up over here:r  H http://forums1.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/categoryhome.do?categoryId=289  ? 	That said, there is still the occasional good technical thread 
 	here too.  < 	You might want to take note of this... Ken Fairfield posted 	over there today:  K http://forums1.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/questionanswer.do?threadId=713541a  ; 	I've think the balanced tipped to the kludgier , moderatedcF 	Web based forum.  Not a bad thing.  At least over there isn't all the 	crying and moaning, right?s  < 	Finally, note there are VMS developers that post over there= 	that I don't ever recall posting here.  Little risk of being 2 	annoyed by knuckleheads that have a bone to pick.   				Rob/   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 21:35:03 -0400# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>lX Subject: Re: Obsucure Inquier article about Intel mentions VMS (and not any  other  OS'), Message-ID: <mtGdndbpQdRac_jcRVn-uA@igs.net>   Rob Young wrote:D > In article <GZe9d.305$Sv6.107@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge"& > <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com> writes: >> >>E >> I don't like talking to you, I'm sorry, because you want to turn anE >> factual response about what we have available, into a debate aboutvF >> what we should be doing - or how incompetent we all are here at HP.G >> That might be an interesting conversation to some, but I am tired of 0 >> it - and you are talking to the wrong person. >> >:> > Well... nothing new.  Johnny Smyth along the same lines.  Go? > back 10 years, many more cryin' and moaning.  We're left withhE > JF ,  JS , AH and a few others to cry and moan and many of the more-* > serious techies have ended up over here: >uJ > http://forums1.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/categoryhome.do?categoryId=289 > @ > That said, there is still the occasional good technical thread > here too.3 >7= > You might want to take note of this... Ken Fairfield postedi > over there today:o >n >mK http://forums1.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/questionanswer.do?threadId=713541i >.< > I've think the balanced tipped to the kludgier , moderatedG > Web based forum.  Not a bad thing.  At least over there isn't all the  > crying and moaning, right? >e= > Finally, note there are VMS developers that post over there > > that I don't ever recall posting here.  Little risk of being3 > annoyed by knuckleheads that have a bone to pick.I    K As it stands right now, HP does not permit access to their site via Google,-I so in the long run you can probably forget about searching for and havingi2 access to discussions years later -- unlike c.o.v.  K Vendor moderated communities have a way of being taken off-line at the whim-G of the vendor, or if the product is EOL'd irrespective of the number ofiE users of the EOL product, or if they are in cost-cutting mode. Not toAI mention censorship when management policies are criticized. It's happenedtL with many vendors before. How does that serve the community of users? It mayB look good in the short run to use a vendor site but there are also
 negatives.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 21:55:31 -0400# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> X Subject: Re: Obsucure Inquier article about Intel mentions VMS (and not any  other  OS'), Message-ID: <bbWdnZAj580PbvjcRVn-oA@igs.net>   Rob Young wrote:D > In article <GZe9d.305$Sv6.107@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge"& > <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com> writes: >  >>E >> I don't like talking to you, I'm sorry, because you want to turn auE >> factual response about what we have available, into a debate aboutfF >> what we should be doing - or how incompetent we all are here at HP.G >> That might be an interesting conversation to some, but I am tired of 0 >> it - and you are talking to the wrong person. >> >-> > Well... nothing new.  Johnny Smyth along the same lines.  Go? > back 10 years, many more cryin' and moaning.  We're left withiE > JF ,  JS , AH and a few others to cry and moan and many of the more * > serious techies have ended up over here: >eJ > http://forums1.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/categoryhome.do?categoryId=289 >o@ > That said, there is still the occasional good technical thread > here too.i > = > You might want to take note of this... Ken Fairfield postedn > over there today:n >e >fK http://forums1.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/questionanswer.do?threadId=713541o >g< > I've think the balanced tipped to the kludgier , moderatedG > Web based forum.  Not a bad thing.  At least over there isn't all thea > crying and moaning, right? > = > Finally, note there are VMS developers that post over theres> > that I don't ever recall posting here.  Little risk of being3 > annoyed by knuckleheads that have a bone to pick.       H As seen on www.tru64.org 's most recent poll of current Tru64 customers.          Moving from Tru64 UNIX to?       HP-UX   10.58% (20)r       AIX   6.88% (13)       Linux   37.04% (70)t       Windows   2.12% (4)e       OpenVMS   1.06% (2)        Solaris   18.52% (35)e       BSD   4.23% (8)        Other   1.06% (2) #       Not moving soon   18.52% (35)     J 29% staying with HP so far. By the time the 'not moving soon' category hasI made their mind up HP will be lucky to have 15% of their former customersa stay with them.n  F How about we do a poll of VMS customers' management (not us plebes who@ actually do the work) and see how they are leaning on the whole?     begin 666 bar.gifI1 D1TE&.#=A`0`/`( ``)D``````"P``````0`/```"`XR/60`[o `d endr   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 16:31:06 -0400p- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>cQ Subject: Re: Obsucure Inquier article about Intel mentions VMS (and not any otheru, Message-ID: <4165A787.4F7A6248@teksavvy.com>   David Froble wrote:uA > Care to suggest the percentage of desktops that are not windoz?   N It is in fact dropping now. Even AT&T has recently begun a one year project toL study alternative desktops and see if thre would be any cost savings if theyA switched,. The two platforms being concidered are MACs and Linux.h  F Many governments have recently decided to abandon their "windows only"L policies and begun to actually require competitive bids for desktops, again, including Linux and MACs. L If this process had happened in the very early 1990s, VMS could have been inM the running because it already had powerful word processor, email etc. And itjN had a standard document format (DDIF) that was quite advanced in capabilities.  N Als, that was all abandonned, even though it is now proven that even a new kidN on the block (Linux) can in fact give Microsoft a hell of a run for its money.  P > Regardless, that wasn't the issue.  JF was badgering Fred about the itanic andM > graphics/GUI.  Fred was nice enough to give him an answer, which is today'si6 > answer, and will be the answer until things change.   M And I was nice enough to provide Fred with what customers see when they go to3< HP's web site: no way to get IA64 into a workstation format.  F Fred has repeated many times that you can get a server configured as aI workstation. And Fred has repeated many times that the 2 models that wereaS recently discontinued weren't on the roadmap for VMS. Nobody has contradicted this.s  N The problem is that Fred contends that this is not an issue since VMS is stillG available in a workstation config that is roughly the same principle as M configuring a DS15/DS10 server into a workstation. While there is no questionAM that this is the case, nobody else will know about this because HP's web side:N doesn't mention this at all, and the news that HP stopped workstaions based onN IA64 will cause customers to simply dismiss IA64 when looking for workstatiosnP because the web site doesn't mention that IA64 workstations are still available.  J Heck, the HP web site has a section for Alpha WORKSTATIONS, even though weM have all been told that there haven't been any Alpha workstations produced in J amny many years (they are just servers packaged as workstations). The sameL logic would say that if Alpha servers packaged as workstations deserve theirK own section on the HP web site, then their IA64 equivalents should also geth their section on the web site.  L And when HP made its announcement, instead of saying it woudl no longer makeJ workstations for IA64 market,  it could have worded it to specifically sayN that it would no longer makde units designed solely to be used as workstationsH but that it would still offer IA64 workstations based on low cost serverI hardware (and spin this into streamlining product lines and production tooF reduce costs to make Wall Street happy). That would have had a totallyH different impact on the news and woudln't have driven so many nails into IA64's coffin.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 17:10:07 -0400# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>TQ Subject: Re: Obsucure Inquier article about Intel mentions VMS (and not any other2, Message-ID: <kbudnbVO08YyLfjcRVn-jQ@igs.net>   JF Mezei wrote:u > David Froble wrote: B >> Care to suggest the percentage of desktops that are not windoz? > E > It is in fact dropping now. Even AT&T has recently begun a one yearaD > project to study alternative desktops and see if thre would be anyD > cost savings if they switched,. The two platforms being concidered > are MACs and Linux.l >oH > Many governments have recently decided to abandon their "windows only"G > policies and begun to actually require competitive bids for desktops,s" > again, including Linux and MACs.F > If this process had happened in the very early 1990s, VMS could have	 > been in C > the running because it already had powerful word processor, emails
 > etc. And iteB > had a standard document format (DDIF) that was quite advanced in > capabilities.1 >6F > Als, that was all abandonned, even though it is now proven that even > a new kidyE > on the block (Linux) can in fact give Microsoft a hell of a run forl > its money.    L How much run-for-the-money would Linux give Microsoft or Apple if you had toB pay an up-front license fee for it as you do for Windows and OS X?       >eF >> Regardless, that wasn't the issue.  JF was badgering Fred about the@ >> itanic and graphics/GUI.  Fred was nice enough to give him anG >> answer, which is today's answer, and will be the answer until thingsv
 >> change. >.D > And I was nice enough to provide Fred with what customers see when > they go to> > HP's web site: no way to get IA64 into a workstation format. >nH > Fred has repeated many times that you can get a server configured as aF > workstation. And Fred has repeated many times that the 2 models that > wereB > recently discontinued weren't on the roadmap for VMS. Nobody has > contradicted this. > G > The problem is that Fred contends that this is not an issue since VMSaE > is still available in a workstation config that is roughly the samerG > principle as configuring a DS15/DS10 server into a workstation. Whiles > there is no questionF > that this is the case, nobody else will know about this because HP'sD > web side doesn't mention this at all, and the news that HP stoppedG > workstaions based on IA64 will cause customers to simply dismiss IA64nD > when looking for workstatiosn because the web site doesn't mention- > that IA64 workstations are still available.     H So HP's web site is F!cked. Big deal....so's their executive management. Which should be changed first?   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Oct 2004 20:33:28 -0500e- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) Q Subject: Re: Obsucure Inquier article about Intel mentions VMS (and not any otherI3 Message-ID: <HIgKdcvpaN8w@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  W In article <416585B8.1090105@tsoft-inc.com>, David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:- > Larry Kilgallen wrote: > Z >> In article <4164C477.5070401@tsoft-inc.com>, David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes: >>   >> oN >>>Well, there are others who also don't care whether VMS has a GUI.  I'm not T >>>running one system with DECwindows.  If I need to provide a GUI interface in any P >>>applications, I'll use windoz and support the GUI with services on VMS.  The S >>>damn users are gonna have a damn windoz system on their desk regardless of what S4 >>>you or anyone else says.  Wake up.  Dream's over. >>>  >> 1K >> That use of Windows (or another non-VMS operating system) on the desktop  >> is _not_ universal. >>   > 7 > What is?  Nothing!  There will always be differences.h   Butu  G 	"users are gonna have a damn windoz system on their desk regardless of  	 what you or anyone else says".  I is not true at some sites.  "Wake up.  Dream's over." might be true wherehF you are, but the way you put it sounds like you think it is universal.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 23:10:12 -0400U( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>Q Subject: Re: Obsucure Inquier article about Intel mentions VMS (and not any otherT( Message-ID: <41660514.204@tsoft-inc.com>   JF Mezei wrote:o   > David Froble wrote:  > A >>Care to suggest the percentage of desktops that are not windoz?t >> > P > It is in fact dropping now. Even AT&T has recently begun a one year project toN > study alternative desktops and see if thre would be any cost savings if theyC > switched,. The two platforms being concidered are MACs and Linux.N > H > Many governments have recently decided to abandon their "windows only"N > policies and begun to actually require competitive bids for desktops, again, > including Linux and MACs.:N > If this process had happened in the very early 1990s, VMS could have been inO > the running because it already had powerful word processor, email etc. And it4P > had a standard document format (DDIF) that was quite advanced in capabilities. > P > Als, that was all abandonned, even though it is now proven that even a new kidP > on the block (Linux) can in fact give Microsoft a hell of a run for its money. >  > P >>Regardless, that wasn't the issue.  JF was badgering Fred about the itanic andM >>graphics/GUI.  Fred was nice enough to give him an answer, which is today'se6 >>answer, and will be the answer until things change.  >> > O > And I was nice enough to provide Fred with what customers see when they go to.> > HP's web site: no way to get IA64 into a workstation format. > H > Fred has repeated many times that you can get a server configured as aK > workstation. And Fred has repeated many times that the 2 models that wereNU > recently discontinued weren't on the roadmap for VMS. Nobody has contradicted this.  > P > The problem is that Fred contends that this is not an issue since VMS is stillI > available in a workstation config that is roughly the same principle as O > configuring a DS15/DS10 server into a workstation. While there is no questionmO > that this is the case, nobody else will know about this because HP's web sideeP > doesn't mention this at all, and the news that HP stopped workstaions based onP > IA64 will cause customers to simply dismiss IA64 when looking for workstatiosnR > because the web site doesn't mention that IA64 workstations are still available. > L > Heck, the HP web site has a section for Alpha WORKSTATIONS, even though weO > have all been told that there haven't been any Alpha workstations produced inFL > amny many years (they are just servers packaged as workstations). The sameN > logic would say that if Alpha servers packaged as workstations deserve theirM > own section on the HP web site, then their IA64 equivalents should also get   > their section on the web site. > N > And when HP made its announcement, instead of saying it woudl no longer makeL > workstations for IA64 market,  it could have worded it to specifically sayP > that it would no longer makde units designed solely to be used as workstationsJ > but that it would still offer IA64 workstations based on low cost serverK > hardware (and spin this into streamlining product lines and production toAH > reduce costs to make Wall Street happy). That would have had a totallyJ > different impact on the news and woudln't have driven so many nails into > IA64's coffin. >   P I stand by my statement, "badgering Fred".  What's he to do about what you say? M   Go to his boss and say "I think we need to re-do the web site to say ...". nP The most likely reply, "Go back to your hole and push bits like you're hired to  do.  Leave the thinking to us."*  L Leaving aside the absurdity of combining 'manager' and 'thinking', which we Q could get into an endless 'happy' discussion about, the bottom line is, Fred can nP tell you how things are now, what he knows about future plans, and that's about N it.  And he did just that, even after previous bouts with you.  So your going P beyond that with him is really bad behavior on your part.  And useless.  If you O want to badger someone, get after Carly on a daily basis.  That probably won't vE work either, but at least your targeting will be a bit more accurate.e   Dave   -- O4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Roade Vanderbilt, PA  15486h   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 23:45:20 -0400h- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>nQ Subject: Re: Obsucure Inquier article about Intel mentions VMS (and not any other + Message-ID: <41660D37.3AB0EEF@teksavvy.com>r   David Froble wrote:eR > could get into an endless 'happy' discussion about, the bottom line is, Fred canQ > tell you how things are now, what he knows about future plans, and that's abouti  M Just like all DEC employees under Compaq were telling us on June 24 2001 that M Alpha had a garanteed future, that IA64 was a flawed architecture with littlel! hope of surpassing Alpha etc etc.j  L I don't blame the ex Decies. They just weren't told. The problem is that youG have an onwer that has lost the trust of customers on June 25 2001 (and:L employees should understand this if they truly didn't know until June 25th).L And HP did nothing to rebuild the lost trust, in fact, it went through a lotK of trouble to convince customers that it would deal with VMS/Alpha the samebK way that Compaq did ("plan of record" which translates to -> we're going tom* screw you if it helps intel or microsoft).  G What happens when employees of a corporation see the world in a totallyrK different colour than customers do ? bad things happen. It is important for J employees to understand how customers perceive the various PR/announcments made by their employers.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 23:27:29 -0400 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>Q Subject: Re: Obsucure Inquier article about Intel mentions VMS (and not any other-, Message-ID: <41660921.2000403@tsoft-inc.com>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:  Y > In article <416585B8.1090105@tsoft-inc.com>, David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:k >  >>Larry Kilgallen wrote: >> >>Z >>>In article <4164C477.5070401@tsoft-inc.com>, David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes: >>>' >>>  >>>rO >>>>Well, there are others who also don't care whether VMS has a GUI.  I'm not  U >>>>running one system with DECwindows.  If I need to provide a GUI interface in any wQ >>>>applications, I'll use windoz and support the GUI with services on VMS.  The ET >>>>damn users are gonna have a damn windoz system on their desk regardless of what 5 >>>>you or anyone else says.  Wake up.  Dream's over.b >>>> >>>>K >>>That use of Windows (or another non-VMS operating system) on the desktop- >>>is _not_ universal. >>>4 >>>67 >>What is?  Nothing!  There will always be differences.  >> >  > ButH > I > 	"users are gonna have a damn windoz system on their desk regardless ofa! > 	 what you or anyone else says"o > K > is not true at some sites.  "Wake up.  Dream's over." might be true whereSH > you are, but the way you put it sounds like you think it is universal. >   P I remember feeling the way you do when others sounded like I do now.  Then most M of my VMS customers moved on in one way or another.  And now I guess I might uP sound a bit like those 'others'.  Guess I now know how frustrated they were/are.  N I've got one customer who will admit up front that the VMS based applications O currently are the most secure and reliable apps that they are running.  In the nO next sentence they state that no future apps will go on VMS, and then they ask aQ for the VMS based apps to be converted.  Even after my telling them that it will kP cost more than twice as much to develop in windows, and 10 times what they paid Q 20 years ago to convert a current app to windows, with a straight face they said <P "Ok".  As simple as I can state it, they are paying 10 times the original price 6 for the application to do no more than get it off VMS.  F What's an ISV to do?  Take the money, bury the frustration, and go on.  L Last VMS based customer, an ISV with several dozen customers, had a problem M several days ago.  It was a pleasure to once again be looking at a VMS based rL application.  It's actually quite funny.  Problem was an improperly located J certificate on a windoz server.  It's part of the application because the O communications partner wouldn't consider communicating with a VMS system.  The H: VMS based stuff retained it's record for reliability.  :-)  : My best wishes that you do not encounter such frustration.   Dave   -- t4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486o   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 22:07:52 -0400' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com>s* Subject: RE: OpenVMS non-advertising todayR Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB45D794@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Also:w7 http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/brochures/ise/ise.pdfs  G ""OpenVMS is a proven product that's been battle tested in the field. =sC That's why we were extremely confident in building the technology =s; architecture of the ISE on OpenVMS AlphaServer systems."=20i  " - Danny Friel, Sr. Vice President,& Technology/ Chief Information Officer,! International Securities Exchangea         Regardsc  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultantn HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660, Fax: 613-591-4477p kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  $ "OpenVMS has always had integrity .. Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .." =20    > -----Original Message-----4 > From: Jan-Erik S=F6derholm [mailto:aaa@aaa.com]=20  > Sent: October 7, 2004 11:17 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com0, > Subject: Re: OpenVMS non-advertising today >=20 > Also see :* > http://www.omxgroup.com/pdf/ISE_6_11.pdf >=20
 > Regards, > /Jan-Erik. >=20   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 23:29:16 -0400t- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>n* Subject: Re: OpenVMS non-advertising today, Message-ID: <41660974.D2CDE8CB@teksavvy.com>   "Main, Kerry" wrote: >  > Also:p9 > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/brochures/ise/ise.pdfa >  > ""OpenVMS is a proven product that's been battle tested in the field. That's why we were extremely confident in building the technology architecture of the ISE on OpenVMS AlphaServer systems."    J So, if ISE had already agreed to allow VMS to be associated with ISE in HPN advertising, how come it wasn't included in those more prominent ads that John Smith alluded to ?  M Seems like it is OK to mention VMS as long as the material won't be seen by ayK large number of people, but as soon as it will be in wide circulations, thea% VMS workd must absolutely be removed.z   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 23:57:59 -0400a- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>n* Subject: Re: OpenVMS non-advertising today, Message-ID: <4166102D.D082F395@teksavvy.com>  I It has often been stated that VMS is still the platform that handles the r& majority of SMS messages in the world.   yet, according to:? http://h71019.www7.hp.com/enterprise/cache/17199-0-0-0-121.aspx   0 HP-UX now handles 70% of SMS messages worldwide.  N Who is right ? who is wrong ? Or has HP succesfully converted that many ex VMSN customers to HP-UX so it can claim 70% of the world's SMS are handled by HP-UX	 servers ?a   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 23:32:54 -0400p( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>* Subject: Re: OpenVMS non-advertising today, Message-ID: <41660A66.3010001@tsoft-inc.com>   Main, Kerry wrote:  @  > Also: http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/brochures/ise/ise.pdf  >O  > ""OpenVMS is a proven product that's been battle tested in the field. That'snN  >  why we were extremely confident in building the technology architecture of,  >  the ISE on OpenVMS AlphaServer systems."  $ Really hate to do this to you Kerry.  M How soon will HP force them off these VMS AlphaServers that the customer has y such extreme confidence in?e   Dave   -- u4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Roado Vanderbilt, PA  15486M   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 20:06:54 -0500m2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>% Subject: Re: Stray Symbiont Processese+ Message-ID: <4165E82D.3FA48425@comcast.net>t   "David J. Dachtera" wrote: > J > Has anyone else seen this: "orphan" symbiont processes. I have 171 printH > queues, and I've seen as many as 233 symbiont processes (no wonder I'm! > running out of process slots!).d > A > I put in the recommended patch kits for STREAMSYMB and the SMTPt% > symbiont, but still getting strays.  >  > Anyone else seen this? >  > VMS Alpha V7.3 > Mnet V4.3 Rev A-X-# > Alpha 2100 2GB RAM, 3 300MHz CPUs0 > App is Classic Radnet.   Update:   E Process Support suggested a couple of Multinet patches for the stream1 and SMTP symbionts. No change.  D VMS Support suggested a slough of patches, all nine were applied. No change.s   Anyone have any other ideas?   -- e David J Dachtera dba DJE Systemsa http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:m" http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/r   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Oct 2004 11:24:24 -0700a. From: fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso)" Subject: Re: vms and fibre channel= Message-ID: <f30679fb.0410071024.548ecc7f@posting.google.com>   _ "Andrzej Bugowski" <bandrzej@wp.pl> wrote in message news:<ck2sak$n8d$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>...>J > My question is. Which HBA support VMS. I have cheaper storage ADTX Mass O > Stora L-series and I would like to connect this storage to VMS. This storage  ; > support HBA Emulex and Qlogic. Can I use this HBA on VMS?l    < Verify if your Alphaserver is compatible with one of these :> KGPSA-CA (1GB) or KGPSA-DA (2GB) ! If OK you must install the ? last OpenVMS driver for fibre channel, plug the board and play.t7 In my systems I have the: VMS73_FIBRE_SCSI V3.0 driver.s  C I dont suggest you to use Qlogic or Emulex boards because HP dont d= give support for them. Even if you upgrade the board firmwaret and the board is not a KGPSA...r   Regardso   FC h   Regardsl FC  J > Uytkownik "Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER" <peter@langstoeger.at> napisa w 8 > wiadomoci news:newscache$n1k55i$xq81$1@news.sil.at... > G > > In article <ck07p0$6v5$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>, "Andrzej Bugowski" r > > <bandrzej@wp.pl> writes:7 > >>I would like to ask all. VMS support fibre channel.  > >g > > And the answer is: 176 > > No, it's not. It is: Yes > >j > > What was your question ? > >a > > -- 2 > > Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERt) > > Network and OpenVMS system specialisto  > > E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atJ > > A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 16:14:06 -0400m- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>s Subject: Re: What is HP anyway?8, Message-ID: <4165A38D.C99F8BC8@teksavvy.com>   Tom Linden wrote:tI > Subsidies never work, in the long run.  Businesses have to stand on itst
 > own merits.n  Y This is a very hard issue. There are strategic advantages in the long term for subsidies.   M Consider a compiler. You may end up losing money on compilers and development L tools, but if they generate the applications that sell your hardware and OS,J along with support later on, then strategically, it is a very good idea to1 subsidize compilers, education discounts etc etc.   N The problem comes when you have shortsighted management who can't see the "bigM picture" and require that each department stand on its own. So compilers musttN now be a profit centre and are priced so high that nobody buys them. EducationL must be a profit centre and no edu buys your products at "profitable" pricesM because your competition still have real educational discounts. The list goes  on and on and on.t  L In the case of HP, cameras may be a loss leader, but if the sale of a cameraL results in the teenager printing lots more photos and hence buying lost more7 expensive HP ink, than that is in the end a good thing.   K Where there is totally no synergy however is between enterprise systems andeM the consumer stuff at HP. The only bit is if you include wintel servers whichu= probably benefit from greater purchasing power of components.o   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Oct 2004 13:49:06 -0700i. From: fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso) Subject: Re: What is HP anyway? = Message-ID: <f30679fb.0410071249.395500d4@posting.google.com>a  h Keith Parris <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<DJb9d.267$A86.22@news.cpqcorp.net>... > John Smith wrote:sM > > See... now the Press is confused....here they are thinking that HP is the P > > digital camera and LCD TV company, and HP suddenly springs printers on them. > K > HP is all of those things, and is also recognized as a computer company. o@ > A combination of diversity of new products spread around core H > competencies is an advantage for HP's success (and by implication the  > success of OpenVMS). > H > It's really nice when you can have vast-majority market share in some K > market area, like Intel in microprocessors, Cisco in networks, Oracle in lJ > databases, or HP in printers. Leadership products (and profits) in that E > area can help fund continued leadership not only in that area, but o > others as well.n > I > In the late '90s the management fad of the day was "stick to your core 1H > competencies and get rid of the rest", and the result was that Palmer I > sold off enough "non-core" pieces of DEC that it became slim enough to uI > be bought by Compaq. IBM started down that road also in the early '90s o" > until Gerstner put a stop to it.  M I believe the companies must sell popular and corporate products to maintain o their sustainability.r  G HP, Dell and Gateway are in a good way. IBM have too much money in cashhF to worry about that. Sun... they are not popular. They need a consumerD product like buy Palm for example to put their brand, sofwtare, etc L in the market  ! These "Enterprise-only Companies" are commited to fading !    Regards9 FC   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 17:40:37 -0400, From: "warren sander" <warren.sander@hp.com>' Subject: Re: www.hp.com/go... URL linksw, Message-ID: <4165b8e5$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  4 If I created a vax one it would go to the VAX site..* http://h18002.www1.hp.com/alphaserver/vax/    = "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com> wrote in message ) news:41647121.17293.24422479@localhost...bF > How about www.hp.com/go/vax ?  For most people, going to the OpenVMS > site would be right... >e > --Stan Quayle8 > Quayle Consulting Inc. >g > ----------/ > Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363e5 > 8572 North Spring Ct., Pickerington, OH  43147  USA 2 > stan-at-stanq-dot-com       http://www.stanq.com >t >  >n   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 17:36:07 -0400, From: "warren sander" <warren.sander@hp.com>Y Subject: Re: www.hp.com/go... URL links (was: Re: Maximum file size, FAQ v.   "Guide to Or, Message-ID: <4165b7d8$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  F we don't really add many marketing url's to the OpenVMS site often. We, probably will when we announce the integrity* versions etc to some marketing type pages.  - so the list I put out is pretty comprehensive ? "David J Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote in messager% news:4164B908.A68BDF7C@comcast.net...? > warren sander wrote: > > C > > I can't do that. the spreadsheet report has lots of columns andY information  > > that is hp-restricted  > >iK > > and you really don't want the entire list as some of them are years oldu andn > > very crufty. An attempt isF > > made yearly to clean things out but it's not the highest priority. >mJ > Well, I'm really just looking to have an index of "go" links that are at > leats remotely VMS-related.e >eD > So, what I'll do (as time permits) is build a links page from yourE > earlier post and include a caveat that the info is quite static andn% > likely to be very stale eventually.- >-$ > ...unless you have another idea... >3
 > Thanx much!m >J > -- t > David J Dachtera > dba DJE Systemsc > http://www.djesys.com/ >e+ > Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:s$ > http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ > * > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 17:43:30 -0400, From: "warren sander" <warren.sander@hp.com>Y Subject: Re: www.hp.com/go... URL links (was: Re: Maximum file size, FAQ v. "Guide to Opee, Message-ID: <4165b992$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  J opps.. I put in a local redirect until I can figure out what happened.. it will be ok in the AM   -warrena  G "Peter Weaver" <WeaverConsultingServices@sympatico.ca> wrote in messageo% news:2sl0fuF1mcn1qU1@uni-berlin.de..., > warren sander wrote:D > > These are the current OpenVMS marketing url's (plus Doc, rtr andE > > spd's) I'm the person who requests them for the OpenVMS site.. If E > > there is a shortcut url you'd like to have created let me know...y > > ...  > H > Thanks Warren, that list (with JF's addition) is now my home page. ButJ > you might want to remove www.hp.com/go/openvms/alphaserver since it does0 > not work anymore. I get The requested documentH > "http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms_alphaserver.html?OpenVMSlaunch=BCS" > was not found on this server., >d > --   > Peter Weaver! > Weaver Consulting Services Inc.  > Canadian VAR for CHARON-VAXa > www.weaverconsulting.cai >l >n   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Oct 2004 15:29:03 -0700e From: waspswarm@gmail.comt= Subject: X11 Forwarding problems without an interactive shell C Message-ID: <1097188143.296898.211140@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>r   Hello,> I posted to openssh-unix-dev and it was suggested I post here.  F I have searched through the mailing list archives of openssh-unix-dev,E at securityfocus.com, at HP and google and have come up pretty dry. IeE apologize in advance if my search was not complete enough or I misseduD something but I sure as heck didn't see anything that clearly statesF what to do. I saw a mention that using -x +x command switches with sshG for X11 forwarding was broken for the OpenVMS ssh client but no mentiont of theB SSH server. I also saw a mention that there may be a patch for theC TCPIP Services for OpenVMS 5.4 that fixes a bug with X11 Forwarding,B but I don't know the details of this patch or if it is applicable.  C ENV: Slackware 10 w/ ssh (SSH-2.0-OpenSSH_3.8.1p1) connecting to annF alpha with OpenVMS 7.3-2  w/ sshd (Remote protocol version 2.0, remote5 software version 2.4.1 SSH Secure Shell OpenVMS V1.0)n  F I have also tried using the 3.9p1 ssh client in cygwin and it fails in the same manner.  E PROBLEM DESCRIPTION: The problem I am seeing is that when issued as abD remote command over X11 forwarding, I get an "X Toolkit Error: Can'tE Open display", and the X client I am trying to run and display to the D remote X windows server (XFree86 on my Slackware box) never appears.  G If I just connect with X11 forwarding enabled, get an interactive shelly, and then run the X client, it displays back.   $ ssh -X BOZO@vmshostn BOZO@vmshost's password:> Welcome to OpenVMS (TM) Alpha Operating System, Version V7.3-2  
 Hello BOZO Welcome to vmshost) vmshost_[BOZO]> run sys$system:decw$clockp   Works great and I get a clock.   Here is the failing case.s1 $ ssh -X BOZO@vmshost 'run sys$system:decw$clock'h BOZO@vmshost's password:# X Toolkit Error: Can't Open display.% %DWT-F-NOMSG, Message number 03AB8204d  @ I initially tried forcing tty allocation with the OpenSSH client command line switch -t,g4 $ ssh -X -t BOZO@vmshost 'run sys$system:decw$clock'   No help. Same error failure.  E I turned on some more verbosity in the SSH client and notice a couple  differences.  = In the successful case I notice there is a request of a shellh5 immediately following the tty make modes information,i ... ? debug1: Requesting X11 forwarding with authentication spoofing. , debug2: channel 0: request x11-req confirm 0# debug2: client_session2_setup: id 0o, debug2: channel 0: request pty-req confirm 0 [trim tty_make_modes] * debug2: channel 0: request shell confirm 0  debug2: fd 3 setting TCP_NODELAY debug2: callback done88 debug2: channel 0: open confirm rwindow 10000 rmax 16384  > Welcome to OpenVMS (TM) Alpha Operating System, Version V7.3-2  
 Hello BOZO Welcome to vmshost) vmshost_[BOZO]> run sys$system:decw$clock   G debug1: client_input_channel_open: ctype x11 rchan 1 win 30000 max 1024o< debug1: client_request_x11: request from 192.168.21.33 51560  debug2: fd 7 setting TCP_NODELAY debug2: fd 7 setting O_NONBLOCKh debug3: fd 7 is O_NONBLOCK debug1: channel 1: new [x11] debug1: confirm x11oG debug1: client_input_channel_open: ctype x11 rchan 2 win 30000 max 1024:< debug1: client_request_x11: request from 192.168.21.33 51561  debug2: fd 8 setting TCP_NODELAY debug2: fd 8 setting O_NONBLOCK  debug3: fd 8 is O_NONBLOCK debug1: channel 2: new [x11] debug1: confirm x11o  F However in the failing case (with or without forcing a tty allocation); I don't see the shell request rather I see an exec request,o  ? debug1: Requesting X11 forwarding with authentication spoofing.d, debug2: channel 0: request x11-req confirm 0# debug2: client_session2_setup: id 0s2 debug1: Sending command: run sys$system:decw$clock) debug2: channel 0: request exec confirm 0s  debug2: fd 3 setting TCP_NODELAY debug2: callback doneo8 debug2: channel 0: open confirm rwindow 10000 rmax 32768  E debug1: client_input_channel_req: channel 0 rtype exit-status reply 0e debug2: channel 0: rcvd closeo' debug2: channel 0: output open -> draint debug2: channel 0: close_readh' debug2: channel 0: input open -> closed 1 debug3: channel 0: will not send data after close   % %DWT-F-NOMSG, Message number 03AB8204(1 debug3: channel 0: will not send data after closeo debug2: channel 0: obuf emptyh debug2: channel 0: close_write) debug2: channel 0: output drain -> closeds debug2: channel 0: almost dead" debug2: channel 0: gc: notify user$ debug2: channel 0: gc: user detached debug2: channel 0: send close  debug2: channel 0: is dead% debug2: channel 0: garbage collecting34 debug1: channel 0: free: client-session, nchannels 1> debug3: channel 0: status: The following connections are open:3 #0 client-session (t4 r0 i3/0 o3/0 fd -1/-1 cfd -1)d  / debug3: channel 0: close_fds r -1 w -1 e 6 c -1dE debug1: Transferred: stdin 0, stdout 0, stderr 0 bytes in 0.6 secondss; debug1: Bytes per second: stdin 0.0, stdout 0.0, stderr 0.0s debug1: Exit status 0   @ It's like the exec request is not being handled properly (in theF failing case)? Or perhaps the new channel request is not happening? OrB the proxy $DISPLAY equivalent handled by sshd on the VMS box isn't setup?  5 To pursue this last thought a little further I tried,w' $ ssh -t -X BOZO@vmshost 'show display'A BOZO@vmshost's password:  3 %DECW-W-OPENIN, error opening DECW$DISPLAY as inputa- -SYSTEM-W-NOSUCHDEV, no such device availables Connection to vmshost closed.    $ ssh -t -X BOZO@vmshost BOZO@vmshost's password:> Welcome to OpenVMS (TM) Alpha Operating System, Version V7.3-2  / SETTING PROMPT AND TERM FOR INTERACTIVE SESSIONr& %SET-W-NOTSET, error modifying FTA216:% -SET-I-UNKTERM, unknown terminal typeh
 Hello BOZO Welcome to vmshost vmshost_[BOZO]>show displayw3 %DECW-W-OPENIN, error opening DECW$DISPLAY as inpute- -SYSTEM-W-NOSUCHDEV, no such device availables vmshost_[BOZO]>H  $ So it's not set in either case. Hmm.  5 I then tried to see if the display logical was setup, 0 $ ssh -t -X BOZO@vmshost 'show log decw$display' BOZO@vmshost's password:  < %SHOW-S-NOTRAN, no translation for logical name DECW$DISPLAY  " With an interactive shell however, $ ssh -t -X BOZO@vmshost BOZO@vmshost's password:> Welcome to OpenVMS (TM) Alpha Operating System, Version V7.3-2  / SETTING PROMPT AND TERM FOR INTERACTIVE SESSIONy& %SET-W-NOTSET, error modifying FTA216:% -SET-I-UNKTERM, unknown terminal type4
 Hello BOZO Welcome to vmshost$ vmshost_[BOZO]>show log decw$displayA "DECW$DISPLAY" = "vmshost.whitehouse.com:10.0" (LNM$JOB_816EC000)O  C So the logical seems to be setup but the display device does not? Ie wonder if this is the problem?  F Does anyone know if this works (i.e. running a remote command over SSHB without an interactive shell) or does SSH version 2.4.1 SSH SecureA Shell OpenVMS V1.0 require an interactive shell in order to run a  remote command over SSH?  = I am not that saavy on OpenVMS enough to know the best way to, troubleshoot further.n  B I am a programmer so as a test I modifyied ssh_session2_setup() inA ssh.c (of the SSH client code from OpenSSH) to force requesting atE shell before and after (in addtion to issuing) the exec request to noL avail.   Thanks for reading this far!0 Any thoughts or suggestions greatly appreciated.   cheers,  scott rankin   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.558 ************************ument format (DDIF) that was quite advanWJ~jM]V 	3+jd+>"螝"Ia<$3j✀:8	\||tnhO;u
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