1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 08 Oct 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 559       Contents: Re: As seen in WSJ Re: As seen in WSJ Re: As seen in WSJ Re: Backup & NFS Re: Backup & NFS Re: Backup & NFS Re: Backup & NFS Re: Backup & NFS Re: Backup & NFS/ DECW: Specifying font/colour in XmString on VMS 3 Re: DECW: Specifying font/colour in XmString on VMS $ DECW: UIL: change default WMD file ?( Re: DECW: UIL: change default WMD file ?, Re: DECwindows security: access to port 6000 Re: EVA vs. bunch of MSA?  Re: EVA vs. bunch of MSA?  Re: EVA vs. bunch of MSA?  Re: EVA vs. bunch of MSA?  Re: EVA vs. bunch of MSA?  Re: EVA vs. bunch of MSA?  Re: Fragmention and SAN disks  Re: ftp directory (ls) format  Re: ftp directory (ls) format + Re: How to get BACKUP /TAPE_EXPIRATION date + HP and Intel Developer Forum 2004 Questions / Re: HP Lands More than 200 Sun Server customers / Re: HP Lands More than 200 Sun Server customers 
 Java & Tomcat  Re: Java & Tomcat  Re: Java & Tomcat  Re: Java & Tomcat  Re: Java & Tomcat $ MultiNet and the OpenVMS Edu Program( Re: MultiNet and the OpenVMS Edu Program( Re: MultiNet and the OpenVMS Edu Program( Re: MultiNet and the OpenVMS Edu Program( Re: MultiNet and the OpenVMS Edu Program MultiNet Edu Program Not SPAM, but just as bad  RE: Not SPAM, but just as bad  Re: Not SPAM, but just as bad H Re: Obsucure Inquier article about Intel mentions VMS (and not any otherM Re: Obsucure Inquier article about Intel mentions VMS (and not any other OS') M Re: Obsucure Inquier article about Intel mentions VMS (and not any other OS') M Re: Obsucure Inquier article about Intel mentions VMS (and not any other OS') M Re: Obsucure Inquier article about Intel mentions VMS (and not any other OS') P Re: Obsucure Inquier article about Intel mentions VMS (and not any other OS') otP Re: Obsucure Inquier article about Intel mentions VMS (and not any other OS') ot! RE: OpenVMS non-advertising today ! Re: OpenVMS non-advertising today ! Re: OpenVMS non-advertising today ! Re: OpenVMS non-advertising today ! Re: OpenVMS non-advertising today ! Re: OpenVMS non-advertising today ! Re: OpenVMS non-advertising today 8 Re: X11 Forwarding problems without an interactive shell8 Re: X11 Forwarding problems without an interactive shell  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 7 Oct 2004 23:32:53 -0700 ' From: icerq4a@spray.se (David Svensson)  Subject: Re: As seen in WSJ = Message-ID: <734da31c.0410072232.6f8add41@posting.google.com>    Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<ck3j24$552$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...  > David Svensson wrote: u > > Andrew Harrison <andrew_remove__harrison@sun__.com> wrote in message news:<ck0p0i$73q$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...  > >  > >>David Svensson wrote:  > >> > >>G > >>>No, I cannot justify it. It is in fact wrong, by intent. Andrew is I > >>>selective about truth and I did a test here to see if he would catch F > >>>this. He seems to be able to spread other things (not Sun things)4 > >>>unjustified without getting any responses here. > >>>  > >>9 > >>Really so how about providing some examples of this ?  > >  > > I > > You said most of the EV8 team have gone to AMD with no justification. J > > I say I know this is not true, I cannot point you to any proof of thisJ > > on the web, but my source is a friend who in turn is a friend to a EV8 > > developer. > >  > A > No I said that some of the Alpha team went to Sun and some went ? > to AMD. You may be right that all the EV8 Alpha team ended up 0 > at Intel who cares it doesn't refute my point.   I think I can read...   5 A quote from an earlier post from you in this thread.    "  >>2. The EV8 team. >>7 >>Some of the EV8 team have made it to Intel, most have   >>however have left to joind AMD "   ( Typical example of stretching the truth.   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Oct 2004 01:15:49 -0700 ' From: icerq4a@spray.se (David Svensson)  Subject: Re: As seen in WSJ = Message-ID: <734da31c.0410080015.5bc4efaa@posting.google.com>   a JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message news:<41643E80.6F284A37@teksavvy.com>...  > David Svensson wrote: A > > Another thing is that they don't have to move to go to Intel.  > L > I can understand one product's team being in one state and another productI > beuing in some other state/country/facility. But is it common to have a ; > product being developped concurrently by separate teams ?   D Look at Intels IA32 teams, I think Pentium M is developed in Israel.. There are plans for IA32 development in India.  M > Is Intel really going to make full use of the Digital engineers, or is this K > more like a make work programme to keep them happy with lots of money and L > while still using them for specific tasks that can be outsources to a team  > that is away from the action ?  F Intel presentations use the term, Alpha-team/design when they describe Tukwila.F I find that a bit odd actually, they are using the Alpha-fame in a wayB that is very unusual for Intel. In short that could be interpreted@ that it will be good, but it could also be a sign that they wereF dependent on Alpha (, as I think Bill Todd is eager to point out ;) ).   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Oct 2004 10:05:24 -0700 ( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) Subject: Re: As seen in WSJ < Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0410080905.f3d16d8@posting.google.com>  l icerq4a@spray.se (David Svensson) wrote in message news:<734da31c.0410080015.5bc4efaa@posting.google.com>...c > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message news:<41643E80.6F284A37@teksavvy.com>...  > > David Svensson wrote: C > > > Another thing is that they don't have to move to go to Intel.  > > N > > I can understand one product's team being in one state and another productK > > beuing in some other state/country/facility. But is it common to have a = > > product being developped concurrently by separate teams ?  > F > Look at Intels IA32 teams, I think Pentium M is developed in Israel.0 > There are plans for IA32 development in India. > O > > Is Intel really going to make full use of the Digital engineers, or is this M > > more like a make work programme to keep them happy with lots of money and N > > while still using them for specific tasks that can be outsources to a team" > > that is away from the action ? > H > Intel presentations use the term, Alpha-team/design when they describe
 > Tukwila.H > I find that a bit odd actually, they are using the Alpha-fame in a wayD > that is very unusual for Intel. In short that could be interpretedB > that it will be good, but it could also be a sign that they wereH > dependent on Alpha (, as I think Bill Todd is eager to point out ;) ).  = I don't think he is eager to point that out because then that B would prove me right when he has constantly said I am wrong ... :)   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 08:20:21 +0200 ' From: JOUKJ <joukj@hrem.stm.tudelft.nl>  Subject: Re: Backup & NFS * Message-ID: <ck5bj6$80c$1@news.tudelft.nl>   David J Dachtera wrote:  > JOUKJ wrote: >  >>Dale Dellutri wrote: >>O >>>On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 12:40:31 +0200, JOUKJ <joukj@hrem.stm.tudelft.nl> wrote:  >>>  >>> F >>>>I'm trying to backup NFS mounted filesystems to tape using the VMS >>>>backup command.  >>>>I get some weird errors: >>>  >>> P >>>>%BACKUP-E-OPENDIR, error opening directory TARANTELLA$ROOT:[HOME.JOUKJ.PLOT]& >>>>-SYSTEM-W-NOSUCHFILE, no such fileJ >>>>%BACKUP-E-OPENIN, error opening TARANTELLA$ROOT:[HOME.JOUKJ]PLOT.DIR;1 >>>>as input& >>>>-SYSTEM-W-NOSUCHFILE, no such file >>>  >>> E >>>>The error ocuurs when the NFS mounted file systems are physically I >>>>located on a PC with Fedora core 2. (File systems located on an Alpha * >>>>with Redhat 7.x seem to be unaffected)L >>>>The files which "cannot be found" are always directory files, and always >>>>the same directory files.  >>>  >>> B >>>>I'm running OpenVMS 7.3-2 with HP-TCP/IP-services V5.4 - ECO 2 >>>  >>> 8 >>>>Anybody any idea where to look to solve the problem:@ >>>>     is it HP--TCP/IP so that I can use my service contract?; >>>>     or is the problem more likely to be Fedora core 2?  >>>  >>> @ >>>This looks like a permissions or symbolic link problem.  What >>>is the output of  >>>  ls -l /home/joukj/plot  >>>and >>>  ls -ld /home/joukj/plotE >>>on the tarantella FC2 system?  How does the output differ from the A >>>same commands pointing to directory files that do not have the  >>>problem?  >>>  >>M >>I do not see any difference: plot is not OK end pesch in the same dir is OK  >>aaee-jj ) ls -ld plot 3 >>drwx------  3 joukj joukj 20480 Oct  5 09:34 plot  >  > 7 > Hhmmm... That permissions mask looks suspect to me...  >  > I would have expected: > 3 > drwx--x--x  3 joukj joukj 20480 Oct  5 09:34 plot  > D > ...at the the very least, unless there's an ACL in the scenario toG > over-ride the lack of group or world permission, or the NFS daemon is * > running with root privilege (*SHUDDER*). > B but the permission drwx------ is also on directories that have no = problem. The fisle-system is mounted with "root" permissions.   5 Note that only the BACKUP command on VMS has problems G if I do a "set def" on the same VMS system to the directory I just can   read the contents                     Jouk    ------------------------------   Date: 8 Oct 2004 04:07:59 -0700 / From: uli_bellgardt@hotmail.com (Uli Bellgardt)  Subject: Re: Backup & NFS = Message-ID: <bd5a3acf.0410080307.57b8c9f3@posting.google.com>    > 7 > Note that only the BACKUP command on VMS has problems I > if I do a "set def" on the same VMS system to the directory I just can   > read the contents  >   I Some weeks ago I had exactly the same problem. I could $DIR, $TYPE, $COPY G all files on a NFS drive, but I could not $BACKUP a directory tree from P that NFS drive to another disk, I saw the same error message. My personal (and, N of course, possibly wrong) conclusion was that $BACKUP has its own ideas aboutJ what a disk must look like, and that an NFS drive does not fall into that 	 category.   M Since I needed the data and not a general solution, the quickest solution for L me was to write a little DCL procedure which copies an entire directory treeO to another disk. Other tools that can do the same task are certainly available, H but I do not have them handy. Contact me off-line if you like to have my* DCL procedure for copying directory trees.   -Uli   ------------------------------  * Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 11:18:26 +0000 (UTC). From: Dale Dellutri <ddelQQQlutr@panQQQix.com> Subject: Re: Backup & NFS , Message-ID: <ck5t22$d5p$1@reader2.panix.com>  L On Thu, 07 Oct 2004 15:54:55 +0200, JOUKJ <joukj@hrem.stm.tudelft.nl> wrote: > Dale Dellutri wrote:P > > On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 12:40:31 +0200, JOUKJ <joukj@hrem.stm.tudelft.nl> wrote:G > >>I'm trying to backup NFS mounted filesystems to tape using the VMS   > >>backup command.  > >>I get some weird errors:P > >>%BACKUP-E-OPENDIR, error opening directory TARANTELLA$ROOT:[HOME.JOUKJ.PLOT]& > >>-SYSTEM-W-NOSUCHFILE, no such fileK > >>%BACKUP-E-OPENIN, error opening TARANTELLA$ROOT:[HOME.JOUKJ]PLOT.DIR;1   > >>as input& > >>-SYSTEM-W-NOSUCHFILE, no such fileF > >>The error ocuurs when the NFS mounted file systems are physically J > >>located on a PC with Fedora core 2. (File systems located on an Alpha * > >>with Redhat 7.x seem to be unaffected)M > >>The files which "cannot be found" are always directory files, and always   > >>the same directory files.  > >>... B > > This looks like a permissions or symbolic link problem.  What  > > is the output of > >   ls -l /home/joukj/plot > > and  > >   ls -ld /home/joukj/plot G > > on the tarantella FC2 system?  How does the output differ from the  C > > same commands pointing to directory files that do not have the   > > problem? > > M > I do not see any difference: plot is not OK end pesch in the same dir is OK  > aaee-jj ) ls -ld plot 3 > drwx------  3 joukj joukj 20480 Oct  5 09:34 plot  > aaee-jj ) ls -l plot > total 17688 > -rw-r-----  1 joukj joukj   6225 Oct  5 08:43 axis.F90 > etc... > aaee-jj ) ls -ld pesch3 > drwx------  2 joukj joukj 4096 Jun  3 11:52 pesch  > aaee-jj ) ls -l pesch  > total 468 A > -rw-r-----  1 joukj joukj  5012 Jun  3 11:52 adjust_ranstru.F90 	 > etc....   3 What is the exact backup command on VMS that fails?    --  7 Dale Dellutri <ddelQQQlutr@panQQQix.com> (lose the Q's)    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 14:32:10 GMT 1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>  Subject: Re: Backup & NFS ; Message-ID: <Kxx9d.2929$Al3.701@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com>    Uli Bellgardt wrote:  7 >>Note that only the BACKUP command on VMS has problems I >>if I do a "set def" on the same VMS system to the directory I just can   >>read the contents  >> >  > K > Some weeks ago I had exactly the same problem. I could $DIR, $TYPE, $COPY I > all files on a NFS drive, but I could not $BACKUP a directory tree from R > that NFS drive to another disk, I saw the same error message. My personal (and, P > of course, possibly wrong) conclusion was that $BACKUP has its own ideas aboutL > what a disk must look like, and that an NFS drive does not fall into that  > category.  > O > Since I needed the data and not a general solution, the quickest solution for N > me was to write a little DCL procedure which copies an entire directory treeQ > to another disk. Other tools that can do the same task are certainly available, J > but I do not have them handy. Contact me off-line if you like to have my, > DCL procedure for copying directory trees. >  > -Uli  N have you tried using VMSTAR (tar for VMS located on the freeware disks?)  you Q could always VMSTAR it instead of backup.  Then zip the tar and write it to tape  Q using BACKUP.  Not very clean, but should work.  And if you are really creative,  R you might be able to use PIPE instead of having to mess with "intermediate" files.   Michael Austin.    --   Michael Austin.  Consultant - Available. @ Donations welcomed. Http://www.firstdbasource.com/donations.html :)   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 16:50:46 +0200 ' From: JOUKJ <joukj@hrem.stm.tudelft.nl>  Subject: Re: Backup & NFS * Message-ID: <ck69g5$ohm$2@news.tudelft.nl>   Michael Austin wrote:  > Uli Bellgardt wrote: > 9 >>> Note that only the BACKUP command on VMS has problems G >>> if I do a "set def" on the same VMS system to the directory I just   >>> can read the contents  >>>  >> >>L >> Some weeks ago I had exactly the same problem. I could $DIR, $TYPE, $COPYJ >> all files on a NFS drive, but I could not $BACKUP a directory tree fromD >> that NFS drive to another disk, I saw the same error message. My I >> personal (and, of course, possibly wrong) conclusion was that $BACKUP   >> has its own ideas aboutH >> what a disk must look like, and that an NFS drive does not fall into  >> that category.  >>D >> Since I needed the data and not a general solution, the quickest  >> solution for A >> me was to write a little DCL procedure which copies an entire   >> directory tree H >> to another disk. Other tools that can do the same task are certainly 
 >> available, K >> but I do not have them handy. Contact me off-line if you like to have my - >> DCL procedure for copying directory trees.  >> >> -Uli  >  > C > have you tried using VMSTAR (tar for VMS located on the freeware  K > disks?)  you could always VMSTAR it instead of backup.  Then zip the tar  H > and write it to tape using BACKUP.  Not very clean, but should work.  K > And if you are really creative, you might be able to use PIPE instead of  + > having to mess with "intermediate" files.  >  > Michael Austin.  > D Not a real option. I'm backing up to tape and have not the space to G place the files somewhere else. Some files (i.e. temporary CD.iso used  A for burning) I set to NOBACKUP, which vmstar does not understand.                       Jouk    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 16:48:28 +0200 ' From: JOUKJ <joukj@hrem.stm.tudelft.nl>  Subject: Re: Backup & NFS * Message-ID: <ck69bs$ohm$1@news.tudelft.nl>   Dale Dellutri wrote:N > On Thu, 07 Oct 2004 15:54:55 +0200, JOUKJ <joukj@hrem.stm.tudelft.nl> wrote: >  >>Dale Dellutri wrote: >>O >>>On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 12:40:31 +0200, JOUKJ <joukj@hrem.stm.tudelft.nl> wrote:  >>> G >>>>I'm trying to backup NFS mounted filesystems to tape using the VMS   >>>>backup command.  >>>>I get some weird errors:P >>>>%BACKUP-E-OPENDIR, error opening directory TARANTELLA$ROOT:[HOME.JOUKJ.PLOT]& >>>>-SYSTEM-W-NOSUCHFILE, no such fileK >>>>%BACKUP-E-OPENIN, error opening TARANTELLA$ROOT:[HOME.JOUKJ]PLOT.DIR;1   >>>>as input& >>>>-SYSTEM-W-NOSUCHFILE, no such fileF >>>>The error ocuurs when the NFS mounted file systems are physically J >>>>located on a PC with Fedora core 2. (File systems located on an Alpha * >>>>with Redhat 7.x seem to be unaffected)M >>>>The files which "cannot be found" are always directory files, and always   >>>>the same directory files.  >>>>...  >>> A >>>This looks like a permissions or symbolic link problem.  What   >>>is the output of  >>>  ls -l /home/joukj/plot  >>>and >>>  ls -ld /home/joukj/plotF >>>on the tarantella FC2 system?  How does the output differ from the B >>>same commands pointing to directory files that do not have the  >>>problem?  >>>  >>M >>I do not see any difference: plot is not OK end pesch in the same dir is OK  >>aaee-jj ) ls -ld plot 3 >>drwx------  3 joukj joukj 20480 Oct  5 09:34 plot  >>aaee-jj ) ls -l plot >>total 17688 >>-rw-r-----  1 joukj joukj   6225 Oct  5 08:43 axis.F90 >>etc... >>aaee-jj ) ls -ld pesch3 >>drwx------  2 joukj joukj 4096 Jun  3 11:52 pesch  >>aaee-jj ) ls -l pesch  >>total 468 A >>-rw-r-----  1 joukj joukj  5012 Jun  3 11:52 adjust_ranstru.F90 	 >>etc....  >  > 5 > What is the exact backup command on VMS that fails?  >  It is > $    backup/log/ignore=interlock tarantella$root:[*...]*.*;* -;       $tape1:taran_041004.bck/save/med=compact/label=041004   I where tarantella$root is the logical name assiociated with the NFS mount.                   Jouk    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 03:38:21 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 8 Subject: DECW: Specifying font/colour in XmString on VMS, Message-ID: <416643E1.FDA637F4@teksavvy.com>  N The available documentation for Motif is for recent versions of Motif (2.*) soJ many of the facilities do not apply to VMS, and it becomes hard to know ifA certain things are possible under the older VMS version of Motif.   
 for instance:   N Is it possible to specify a colour and/or font when building a compound string> ? If so, does anyone have any examples either in C or in UIL ?  E Is it possible to specify colour when building individual items in an ? XmScrolledList (for instance, to flag certain items in red) ???    ------------------------------   Date: 8 Oct 2004 09:18:06 -0700 . From: martinkirby12@yahoo.co.uk (Martin Kirby)< Subject: Re: DECW: Specifying font/colour in XmString on VMS< Message-ID: <224291b.0410080818.738a78ee@posting.google.com>  a JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message news:<416643E1.FDA637F4@teksavvy.com>... P > The available documentation for Motif is for recent versions of Motif (2.*) soL > many of the facilities do not apply to VMS, and it becomes hard to know ifC > certain things are possible under the older VMS version of Motif.  >  > for instance:  > P > Is it possible to specify a colour and/or font when building a compound string@ > ? If so, does anyone have any examples either in C or in UIL ? > G > Is it possible to specify colour when building individual items in an A > XmScrolledList (for instance, to flag certain items in red) ???   2 Try this for a description of 1.2 compound_string:  J http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/motifref2/vol6a/Vol6a_html/ch24.html#25_3_4  > The section after discusses colour but I don't know if you can? associate a colour with a compound string in an XmScrolledList.    I don't have any examples.   Martin Kirby   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 05:27:57 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> - Subject: DECW: UIL: change default WMD file ? , Message-ID: <41665D8B.78EC8177@teksavvy.com>  K The UIL command uses the standard MOTIF  WMD (compile WML) file by default.   N According to the documentation I read, (which should be up to date since MotifM on VAX dates back to 1996 I think), the way to specify the dec extentions WMD F file is to use the /WIDGET_META_DESCRIPTION=full_file_spec  qualifier.   This is rather cumbersome.  L is there a logical one can magically define to cause UIL to seek a different MWD file by default ?   M Or must one work through a redefined "UIL" symbol that would translate to the ) long UIL/WIDGET=long_file_spec" command ?   M If one does not use the DEC extensions, what is the impact is still using the * DEC extensions WMD file when running UIL ?   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Oct 2004 09:26:31 -0700 . From: martinkirby12@yahoo.co.uk (Martin Kirby)1 Subject: Re: DECW: UIL: change default WMD file ? < Message-ID: <224291b.0410080826.5b747b0c@posting.google.com>  . From: martinkirby12@yahoo.co.uk (Martin Kirby) Newsgroups: comp.os.vms 1 Subject: Re: DECW: UIL: change default WMD file ? , References: <41665D8B.78EC8177@teksavvy.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 192.85.50.2  a JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message news:<41665D8B.78EC8177@teksavvy.com>... M > The UIL command uses the standard MOTIF  WMD (compile WML) file by default.  > P > According to the documentation I read, (which should be up to date since MotifO > on VAX dates back to 1996 I think), the way to specify the dec extentions WMD H > file is to use the /WIDGET_META_DESCRIPTION=full_file_spec  qualifier. >  > This is rather cumbersome. > N > is there a logical one can magically define to cause UIL to seek a different > MWD file by default ?   ; I don't think so. Can't see anything like that in the code.    > O > Or must one work through a redefined "UIL" symbol that would translate to the + > long UIL/WIDGET=long_file_spec" command ?  > O > If one does not use the DEC extensions, what is the impact is still using the , > DEC extensions WMD file when running UIL ?  F Shouldn't matter. As I understand it all the WMD file is describing isC what is allowed if a particular widget name is used. So unless your ? widget has the same name as one of the DEC extension widgets it  shouldn't be an issue.   Martin Kirby   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Oct 2004 01:54:50 -0700 . From: martinkirby12@yahoo.co.uk (Martin Kirby)5 Subject: Re: DECwindows security: access to port 6000 < Message-ID: <224291b.0410080054.564a952c@posting.google.com>  a JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message news:<416515F6.BFE9FF26@teksavvy.com>... L > I take it this change of username occurs so that the server can pickup any > user level customizations ?  > D I'm not sure. I suspect it is more to do with security, auditing andD accounting issues. The server won't pick up anything from the user's uaf file or login.com.  O > Would such an application have to declare itself a window manager in order to O > capture all keystrokes ? (and then pass them to the former window manager ?).   B I'm not sure about capturing keystrokes. Some events are such that? only one client can get them at a time others can have multiple F clients interested in them. If you loaded the DEC-XTRAP extension theyC could use that. In any case any client can use XGetImage to get the " entire screen content at any time.  C A clever application might also be able to slide into the system by + declaring itself as an Input Method server.    > M > Could one actually run such an application without popping up any window on  > the display ?   B You certainly don't need to pop a window up. I have a lot of tests that never show on the display.    >  > J > > If you have set DECW$SERVER_CONNECT_LOG (DECW$SERVER_AUDIT_LEVEL sinceJ > > V7.3-2) before starting the server you can inspect the server log file > > for current connections. > O > I was able to see the connection and IP adresses (2 attempts) in the log. But  > not what they tried to do :-(   E If you have the connection refused message logged that means they did D more than just connect to the port. It means they must have sent the  first message in the X protocol.   > H > > As long as you have reverse name translation then why does it matter > > if the IP address changes? > O > Because I believe that in the security setup for the DECWINDOWS, the dialogue N > expects IP adresses. (on VAX at least). Remember having to fiddle a lot withP > it at one point and decided that it was just easier to put a * * in there. NowN > I just took it off completely and will just add it when I know it is needed.  C On all platforms it expects the same text as the server logs in the E log file. The server uses gethostbyaddr (getnameinfo instead in V1.5) C to do a reverse name lookup. If reverse DNS is set up, that is what 0 will be logged in the server and what is needed.  A I just try a connect, look in the log file, then enter that text. D Except, that the node name in one place is truncated in the log file6 but the full text would be needed (at least on Alpha).   > D > > If you don't have reverse name translation and are running Alpha > 7 > Unfortunatly, we are stuck with ancient stuff on VAX.   ? I should have seen the clue in the first message where you said  vaxstation :-(   Martin   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 15:21:26 +0400 & From: Valentin Likoum <me@privacy.net>" Subject: Re: EVA vs. bunch of MSA?+ Message-ID: <2sn813F1mmml3U1@uni-berlin.de>    Hal Kuff wrote: G > The MSA is VERY VERY limited and can not do snapshots and clones.....   <    Limited where? In performance? Yes, but it can be solved  with additional MSAs. ;    Snapshots? Now we live without them. If I understand it  : correctly, snapshots (Vsnaps, snapclones) are like shadow 8 set splitting (stop the operations, fire snapshot/split ; shadow set, resume the operations). Hardly we could afford  8 stopping the application (it must work 24*7) and we use  another backup strategy.8    Do you mean any other limitations? I found one: both ; controllers should be connected to separate fabrics, but I  ; don't know it is good or bad. Another unclear thing is the  7 work mode of both controllers. Is it active-active (as  8 should be for declared multipathing) or active-standby ?   --  
 Best regards, 
   Valentin)   valentin.likoum at ncc dot volga dot ru    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 15:58:41 +0400 & From: Valentin Likoum <me@privacy.net>" Subject: Re: EVA vs. bunch of MSA?+ Message-ID: <2sna6tF1n0nanU1@uni-berlin.de>    Keith Parris wrote:  > Valentin Likoum wrote: > , [comments which I totally agree are snipped] > E >> - EVA seems to be more easy to manage. But we are not planning to  ! >> reconfigure arrays very often. / >> - EVA' vraid. Hm... Looking very attractive.  >  > I > Virtualization does seem to be a big advantage of the EVA over the MSA.   2    But where does this virtualization really play?< Argument "to increase performance just throw more spindles" ; doesn't play if all shelves are already filled. EVA3000 is  ' not so rich in this context as EVA5000. :    The fact that all LUNs are sliced across all spindles? = But the same (or near) effect can be reached with MSA - just  = throw all spindles to 0+1 group and carve LUNs from it. Yes,  =   with MSA I must care about spares and EVA will care for me. 7    State-of-the-art vraid algorithms? Is there so huge  = difference between vraid-1 and correctly configured 0+1 raid   with equal number of spindles?9    EVA' snapshot feature? Usefull, but we think we could   live without it.
    What else?    --  
 Best regards, 
   Valentin)   valentin.likoum at ncc dot volga dot ru    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 16:39:16 +0400 & From: Valentin Likoum <me@privacy.net>" Subject: Re: EVA vs. bunch of MSA?+ Message-ID: <2sncj3F1ktpfoU1@uni-berlin.de>    Joel Loveless wrote:G > On 7 Oct 2004 08:54:15 -0500, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)  > wrote: >  > V >>In article <2skgvbF1jt4i8U1@uni-berlin.de>, Valentin Likoum <me@privacy.net> writes: >> >>? >>>- MSA doesn't require Management Appliance. Windows machine  : >>>in the heart of storage network makes me a bit nervous. >>2 >>That has been my guiding principle in this area. >>B >>You would not want your disk to become unavailable every 43 days  >>like the Los Angeles Airport ! >  >  > C > The Management Appliance does not affect the operation of the EVA H > controllers. It is simply a device for configuration and monitoring ofF > the SAN environment. It also makes problem resolution much easier by* > sending log files to support for review. > G > I was also thinking that the MSA1000 was a better option due to cost. @ > But, after we got the EVA installed I was impressed by all theE > functionality. If you have to do backups where you need a snapshot,  > the EVA is a great solution.  ?    What else functionality, except snapshot, has impressed you?    > H > I was also impressed that when we had a failure, the EVA was simple toC > repair. I come from an environment where HSJ's were the prevalent F > controller. Anyone that has worked with an HSJ knows that changing aF > failed controller can cause headaches with disk sets. We lost an EVAC > controller due to a memory cache error. VMS did not even bark one C > mount verification. The engineer changed the controller on a live H > production system with no manager intervention or lose of data, etc. I > was greatly impressed.  =    MSA seems to be equal with EVA in this context. It allows  ; hot swap of controllers as well. And no expected headaches  ' is declared in the docs in this case :)    --  
 Best regards, 
   Valentin)   valentin.likoum at ncc dot volga dot ru    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 09:41:51 -0400 * From: Joel Loveless <joell@mindspring.com>" Subject: Re: EVA vs. bunch of MSA?8 Message-ID: <a95dm0tbb0mpnammeib07m0g0ar8b0hjdb@4ax.com>  D On Fri, 08 Oct 2004 16:39:16 +0400, Valentin Likoum <me@privacy.net> wrote:  @ >   What else functionality, except snapshot, has impressed you?  A Monitoring of systems has always been important to every system I > worked with. I am an old school admin with DEC Console ManagerD experience. The Management appliance allows SNMP trap forwarding for> event notification services. My last company used Netcool fromD Micromuse as thier corporate event notification services. I was ableB to setup the SNMP traps to be forwarded and displayed for operatorD respose. They include a template file on the management appliance toA help format this functionality. The appliance also supports email E notification services. All notification services can be configured to B filter at the appliance as well. I am not aware of what monitoring* capabilities are available on the MSA1500.  D The Appliance can also join your domain environment. This was simpleA to configure and allowed user/password management to be linked to E domain services. This is helpful in that once a user is authorized on : the appliance, user/password login is not required, domainC authentication. The appliance can also have many 3rd party software ? packages installed. I added Trend Server protect as part of our C corporate standards. There is a list on HP website of what products ? have been tested with the appliance. There is also a listing of * Windows server patches that HP has tested.   Hope this helps.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 14:20:47 GMT 1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com> " Subject: Re: EVA vs. bunch of MSA?< Message-ID: <3nx9d.2920$Al3.2779@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com>   Valentin Likoum wrote: > Keith Parris wrote:  >  >> Valentin Likoum wrote:  >>. > [comments which I totally agree are snipped] >  >>F >>> - EVA seems to be more easy to manage. But we are not planning to " >>> reconfigure arrays very often.0 >>> - EVA' vraid. Hm... Looking very attractive. >> >> >>J >> Virtualization does seem to be a big advantage of the EVA over the MSA. >  > 3 >   But where does this virtualization really play? K > Argument "to increase performance just throw more spindles" doesn't play tD > if all shelves are already filled. EVA3000 is not so rich in this  > context as EVA5000.sH >   The fact that all LUNs are sliced across all spindles? But the same H > (or near) effect can be reached with MSA - just throw all spindles to E > 0+1 group and carve LUNs from it. Yes,  with MSA I must care about  " > spares and EVA will care for me.K >   State-of-the-art vraid algorithms? Is there so huge difference between cJ > vraid-1 and correctly configured 0+1 raid with equal number of spindles?J >   EVA' snapshot feature? Usefull, but we think we could live without it. >   What else? >   O it depends on whether or not you want to "lose" spindles" due to the duplicate t disk of mirroring.  L I have used MSA1000 for Windows environments and EVA5000 (fully loaded with M 146GB drives).  I was able to get many large systems configured mostly using sP VRAID5 and still during backups, could achieve ~85GB/hr throughput.  And having L 70+ systems writing backups conccurrently and still achieving these numbers.  N WRT snapshots.  The way I used them in the past was to have those 70+ systems N write their backups to a seperate LUN and when it was finished, have a second Q cluster that would create/mount the snapshot and roll that to tape. We used RMAN uN to do Oracle hot backups to this same LUN and roll it to tape later.  We kept P the last 2 backups online.  In the event of a meltdown, we were able to restore L from disk rather than tape.  We restored a 780GB Oracle database and had it O operational in ~3.5 hours.  From tape or a network backup utility like Veritas l& would have been even more disasterous. -- b Michael Austin.t Consultant - Available. @ Donations welcomed. Http://www.firstdbasource.com/donations.html :)   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Oct 2004 09:48:41 -0700e0 From: dave.baxter@bannerhealth.com (Dave Baxter)" Subject: Re: EVA vs. bunch of MSA?= Message-ID: <a3c44af1.0410080848.44ecf9f4@posting.google.com>s  Y Valentin Likoum <me@privacy.net> wrote in message news:<2sn813F1mmml3U1@uni-berlin.de>...M > Hal Kuff wrote:o > : >    Do you mean any other limitations? I found one: both = > controllers should be connected to separate fabrics, but I    > don't know it is good or bad.  >- Hal,F      This is not to do with EVA, but your comment on separate fabrics.?    This is a very important consideration in a 7x24 environment ? because if you don't have redundent fabrics, with ALL HOSTS and8B STORAGE CONTROLLERS dualpathed to each fabric, then you are forcedD into downtime if you need to modify the zoning configuration on your SAN Switch.u  C      With a redundent fabric setup, (at least with VMS/HP Storage),eF the fabric zoning configuration changes can be rolled in, i.e. disableA one fabric causes a total failover to the remaining fabric.   The>A configurations can then be changed, and then failed back once the F switch is reenabled and all links have been reestablished.   Once thisF is acheived, the second fabric can be disabled causing all connectionsD to fail over to the new configuration, then the config on the second fabric can be updated.  C       I have carried out this procedure on several occasions withinfE our "Production" SAN without any impact on our Prod Environment, (thewB only thing you will see is disk paths being auto switched when the switches are disabled.   Dave   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Oct 2004 12:15:13 -0500s; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) & Subject: Re: Fragmention and SAN disks3 Message-ID: <dgCz32KnTUsz@eisner.encompasserve.org>'  g In article <770c7f9b.0410061207.14c58ff9@posting.google.com>, twilliams@gscc.com (Tom Williams) writes:   C > I'm copying files to a VMS shadowset that consist of Fibrechannel E > disks in a SAN.  That message implies file fragmentation, but I wassD > told we wouldn't have to worry about fragmentation on the SAN. Can > anyone offer any insight?c  C    Your SAN vendor wants you to think that file fragmentation isn't-A    important on a SAN.  This does not mean that it doesn't exist.<   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Oct 2004 08:27:16 -05007 From: briggs@encompasserve.org& Subject: Re: ftp directory (ls) format3 Message-ID: <M9CWQE15EQI3@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <4165D565.F02AD22A@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > Jim Strehlow wrote:tH >> One of our developers is using a WS_FTP component that parses resultsG >> of ls; but that component is not returning desirable results because < >> it expects the format above but is getting fed the format > 7 > From : ftp://ftp.rfc-editor.org/in-notes/std/std9.txte >  > NAME LIST (NLST) > B [lists file names only, one file per line.  Intended to be machine	 readable]l > 
 > LIST (LIST)e > E [lists file names, sizes, attributes, phase of moon and anything elsenH that the server thinks might look good.  Intended to be human readable.]   > I > Note that the protocol doesn't seem to contain any "LS" command. (LS isw- > probably converted by your client to LIST).a  F In the typical command line client, "ls" translates to "nlst" -- shortG format listing.  And "dir" translates to "list" -- long format listing.i  B GUI clients traditionally use the "list" (long format) display and? parse it so that they can produce the Windows Explorer look andR= feel with file name, modification date and size.  The defaultsC assumption is that the server produces a Unix "ls -l" style listinge> for the "list" command.  Low quality GUI clients break if this assumption is not justified.  E Decent quality GUI clients (arguably an oxymoron) will auto-sense theaE server type so that they can parse wisely.  They may do this by usingvC the SYST command to query the remote system type.  Or they may lookn! for hints in the observed output.   E High quality GUI clients will fall back on NLST if neccessary so that D they can interoperate with anything.  They allow the user to specify this manually.   	John Briggs   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Oct 2004 12:23:32 -0500d; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)u& Subject: Re: ftp directory (ls) format3 Message-ID: <pBB89HLxxOzW@eisner.encompasserve.org>m  l In article <4b6ec350.0410071432.6f99d372@posting.google.com>, JimStrehlow@data911.com (Jim Strehlow) writes:  G > One of our developers is using a WS_FTP component that parses results F > of ls; but that component is not returning desirable results because; > it expects the format above but is getting fed the format   B    You component is violating the RFC on FTP.  Only the names-only/    listing is expected to be machine parseable.e   ------------------------------   Date: 8 OCT 2004 16:04:17 GMTi+ From: Dave Greenwood <greenwoodde@ornl.gov>p4 Subject: Re: How to get BACKUP /TAPE_EXPIRATION date1 Message-ID: <8OCT04.16041799@feda01.fed.ornl.gov>-  @ In a previous article, brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon) wrote:N > I thought it would be a good idea to use the  BACKUP /TAPE_EXPIRATION=<date>2 > to prevent us from over-writting recent backups. >  wF > I just ran into an instance that this strategy worked.  All to well. >  4J > The problem, we are a lights out shop, and the backup generated an OPCOMD > request for the operator to fix the problem.  No operator on duty. >  kH > %BACKUP-W-MOUNTERR, volume 1 on _MYNODE$MKD400 was not mounted because' >  its expiration date is in the futureO> > %BACKUP-I-OPERASSIST, operator assistance has been requested- > %BACKUP-I-OPREPLY, operator reply is "QUIT"O: > %BACKUP-F-ABORT, operator requested abort on fatal error >    >  cL > So I got to thinking I should mount the tape and check for TAPE EXPIRATIONP > before I proceed with the backup.  That way I can detect an error and send out	 > a page.> >  R > I am stumped.  >  aK > How can I do this using LEXICALS (don't see it) or a FORTRAN application?n  J The expiration date is in the HDR1 header.  You can mount the tape/foreignG and read records until you find the one with "HDR1" as the 1st 4 chars.dJ I think that's usually the 2nd record on the tape.  The expiration date isG in bytes 48:53 in a modified Julian format - CYYDDD where "C" = " " fore 19xx and "0" for 20xx.  I I have a couple of Fortran subroutines which read the expiration date and G compare it against a reference date.  I also have some DCL that will doo( the same.  Let me know if you want them.   Dave --------------9 Dave Greenwood                Email: Greenwoodde@ORNL.GOVsH Oak Ridge National Lab        %STD-W-DISCLAIMER, I only speak for myself   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 12:20:23 -0400< From: "Peter Weaver" <WeaverConsultingServices@sympatico.ca>4 Subject: HP and Intel Developer Forum 2004 Questions+ Message-ID: <2snt29F1i4iohU1@uni-berlin.de>   F HP's phone system is driving me nuts, so is there anyone out there who can answer some questions?  H I am thinking of signing up for the Itanium course and there are severalH different applications I can take for the hands-on work. Do the machinesF have Fortran on them for the class? If the application needs an Oracle: database then do they have Oracle available at the course?   --   Peter Weaver Weaver Consulting Services Inc.f Canadian VAR for CHARON-VAX  www.weaverconsulting.car   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Oct 2004 11:52:29 -0500-; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 8 Subject: Re: HP Lands More than 200 Sun Server customers3 Message-ID: <er9i8gs$Y2Ds@eisner.encompasserve.org>5  R In article <W8edndJ-0tppofncRVn-vg@igs.net>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes: > M > And then to put it all into perspective, a single typical middle-sized (2-3 N > million) city government can spend $30-40 million on just PC's over a 3-yearH > purchasing cycle and wind up tossing them out afterwards. No invesmentG > protection, huge virus and worm hassles, high manpower costs. But VMSr2 > doesn't have applications people want any longer  F    Sure it does.  What it lacks is desktop presence, something DEC did>    a poor job of pursuing (and failed), and HP isn't pursuing.  H    Imaging, if in the 1980's your boss, said:  "Let's get some PCs to doI    word processing and spreadsheets", and you were able to say:  "For therF    same price I can get that on a real computer; for a fraction of the-    price I can put it on our existing VAXes".h   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Oct 2004 11:55:33 -0500o; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)-8 Subject: Re: HP Lands More than 200 Sun Server customers3 Message-ID: <OvUqXmjxlCpR@eisner.encompasserve.org>R  \ In article <fp5am0p8bvcjjmk440qf093n65laoa9f2c@4ax.com>, Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com> writes:  O > Available on Linux or Solaris x86 according to the web page. BTW If it's Java Q > shouldn't it be platform neutral? Why isn't it available on Solaris on SPARC org! > indeed any other Java platform?t  F    There are plenty of ways to code-in platform specific code in Java.C    It's easy not to since Java was designed to make it easy not to,E    but it's not hard to do.O   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Oct 2004 03:14:42 -0700A# From: issinoho@gmail.com (issinoho)s Subject: Java & Tomcat= Message-ID: <ec518b79.0410080214.2e54885a@posting.google.com>e   Hi all,e   VMS V7.3-1 on Alpha PWSa  F I've downloaded all the various patches and am bang up to date on thatF front. I've also downloaded the latest Java SDK and versions of CSWS &$ Tomcat. All installed without issue.   Some questions:e  / 1. I've got the following in my systartup file, * $ @SYS$COMMON:[JAVA$142.COM]JAVA$142_SETUP- $ @SYS$COMMON:[JAVA$142.COM]JAVA$CONFIG_SETUP/C Is this the right place for them, as I can't see any logicals, etc. * when I login. If not where should they be?  @ 2. When I run, @sys$manager:apache$jakarta, I get the following,;   Using CATALINA_BASE  : /sys$common/apache/jakarta/tomcat/p;   Using CATALINA_HOME  : /sys$common/apache/jakarta/tomcat/s?   Using CATALINA_TMPDIR: /sys$common/apache/jakarta/tomcat/temp  Error: Unable to locate Java How do I get round this?F Note, if I manually run the java setup command files (see above) I get the same result.  ; 3. Apache won't start. This is what I get in the log files, D apache$httpd.exe;1: Could not determine the server's fully qualified domain$ name, using 127.0.0.1 for ServerNameC (76)function not implemented : make_sock: could not bind to addressr
 0.0.0.0:80- no listening sockets available, shutting down- Unable to open logs   B I'm running TCPWare 5.6-2; I have UCX V5.3 ECO 4 installed but not running.4 For completeness, here is my installed product list,< ----------------------------------- ----------- ------------5 PRODUCT                             KIT TYPE    STATE>< ----------------------------------- ----------- ------------9 CPQ AXPVMS CDSA V1.0-2              Full LP     Installeda9 CPQ AXPVMS CSWS V2.0                Full LP     InstalledP9 CPQ AXPVMS CSWS_JAVA V2.1           Full LP     Installedi9 CPQ AXPVMS CSWS_PERL V2.0           Full LP     Installed 9 CPQ AXPVMS CSWS_PHP V1.2            Full LP     Installeds9 CPQ AXPVMS PERL V5.6-1              Full LP     Installeda9 DEC AXPVMS DECNET_OSI V7.3-1        Full LP     Installedo9 DEC AXPVMS DFU V2.7-A               Full LP     Installedt9 DEC AXPVMS DWMOTIF V1.2-6           Full LP     Installedo9 DEC AXPVMS JAVA142 V1.4-23          Full LP     Installedn9 DEC AXPVMS OPENVMS V7.3-1           Platform    Installed 9 DEC AXPVMS TCPIP V5.3-18            Full LP     Installedn9 DEC AXPVMS VMS V7.3-1               Oper System Installed < ----------------------------------- ----------- ------------   Any help greatly appreciated.r   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 11:31:05 GMTs! From: Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com>n Subject: Re: Java & Tomcat8 Message-ID: <jjtcm0d3pjhvvk6tst4lta9pbttecj4arg@4ax.com>  B On 8 Oct 2004 03:14:42 -0700, issinoho@gmail.com (issinoho) wrote:  0 >1. I've got the following in my systartup file,+ >$ @SYS$COMMON:[JAVA$142.COM]JAVA$142_SETUPl. >$ @SYS$COMMON:[JAVA$142.COM]JAVA$CONFIG_SETUPD >Is this the right place for them, as I can't see any logicals, etc.+ >when I login. If not where should they be?K  M You should have JAVA$CONFIG_SETUP.COM & JAVA$142_SETUP.COM in your LOGIN.COM.hM You will want to add FAST to the invocation of the latter procedure to ensure P that you use the Fast VM. Normally I would keep JAVA$CONFIG_SETUP.COM (generatedJ by JAVA$CONFIG_WIZARD.COM) in the user directory & not in the central JAVAP command procedure directory as you may have different requirements for different users & Java applications.  N These two command procedures set up the process environment for running Java &$ would normally be run at login time.  A >2. When I run, @sys$manager:apache$jakarta, I get the following,h< >  Using CATALINA_BASE  : /sys$common/apache/jakarta/tomcat/< >  Using CATALINA_HOME  : /sys$common/apache/jakarta/tomcat/@ >  Using CATALINA_TMPDIR: /sys$common/apache/jakarta/tomcat/temp >Error: Unable to locate Java  >How do I get round this?lG >Note, if I manually run the java setup command files (see above) I getn >the same result.o  P It sounds like symbols & logicals for Java are not set up correctly despite what8 you say about manually executing the command procedures.   >p< >3. Apache won't start. This is what I get in the log files,E >apache$httpd.exe;1: Could not determine the server's fully qualified  >domainy% >name, using 127.0.0.1 for ServerNamecD >(76)function not implemented : make_sock: could not bind to address >0.0.0.0:80 . >no listening sockets available, shutting down >Unable to open logs >eC >I'm running TCPWare 5.6-2; I have UCX V5.3 ECO 4 installed but not 	 >running.u  O Secure Web Server isn't officially supported under TCPWare but generally shouldlL work. Is it otherwise configured & working correctly? I only have experienceP with TCP/IP Services but do recall having a problem once with Apache when no DNSK was present. I would also suggest a more recent version of TCP/IP Services.0  N Don't forget that you need to ensure that the process running Apache (normallyO APACHE$WWW) runs the Java setup command procedures before invoking Tomcat. Also0N remember to execute SYS$STARTUP:APACHE$JAKARTA_CONFIG.COM to configure Tomcat," update HTTPD.CONF with mod_jk etc.   -- Nigel Barker Live from the sunny Cote d'Azure   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 15:10:48 +0100% From: "issinoho" <issinoho@gmail.com>e Subject: Re: Java & Tomcat0 Message-ID: <10md7vb8tol5mc0@corp.supernews.com>  
 Thanks Nigel,J  L Even after your suggested JAVA mods I was not getting anywhere with Tomcat, L so I had a look in the SYS$STARTUP:APACHE$JAKARTA_CONFIG.COM file and guess ' what, there's no support for Java 1.4.2s. I added a section in for it and away she went.  G Now I've configured things as per the documentation and Tomcat starts, hI however when I start Apache, I get the following in the Tomcat log files,   Y ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ;   Using CATALINA_BASE  : /sys$common/apache/jakarta/tomcat/e;   Using CATALINA_HOME  : /sys$common/apache/jakarta/tomcat/ ?   Using CATALINA_TMPDIR: /sys$common/apache/jakarta/tomcat/temps Using Java 1.4.2 setup Running Tomcat..... G Oct 8, 2004 4:01:52 PM org.apache.commons.modeler.Registry loadRegistryo" INFO: Loading registry informationF Oct 8, 2004 4:01:53 PM org.apache.commons.modeler.Registry getRegistry$ INFO: Creating new Registry instanceD Oct 8, 2004 4:01:59 PM org.apache.commons.modeler.Registry getServer INFO: Creating MBeanServerC Oct 8, 2004 4:02:11 PM org.apache.coyote.http11.Http11Protocol initr# SEVERE: Error initializing endpoint12 java.net.SocketException: function not implemented=         at java.net.PlainSocketImpl.socketBind(Native Method)9>         at java.net.PlainSocketImpl.bind(PlainSocketImpl.java)8         at java.net.ServerSocket.bind(ServerSocket.java):         at java.net.ServerSocket.<init>(ServerSocket.java):         at java.net.ServerSocket.<init>(ServerSocket.java)         at lE org.apache.tomcat.util.net.DefaultServerSocketFactory.createSocket(D?-         at -E org.apache.tomcat.util.net.PoolTcpEndpoint.initEndpoint(PoolTcpEndpo?fL         at org.apache.coyote.http11.Http11Protocol.init(Http11Protocol.java)         at sE org.apache.coyote.tomcat4.CoyoteConnector.initialize(CoyoteConnector?          at fE org.apache.catalina.core.StandardService.initialize(StandardService.?l         at  E org.apache.catalina.core.StandardServer.initialize(StandardServer.ja? D         at org.apache.catalina.startup.Catalina.start(Catalina.java)F         at org.apache.catalina.startup.Catalina.execute(Catalina.java)F         at org.apache.catalina.startup.Catalina.process(Catalina.java)F         at sun.reflect.NativeMethodAccessorImpl.invoke0(Native Method)         at  E sun.reflect.NativeMethodAccessorImpl.invoke(NativeMethodAccessorImpl?          at 8E sun.reflect.DelegatingMethodAccessorImpl.invoke(DelegatingMethodAcce?:7         at java.lang.reflect.Method.invoke(Method.java)-E         at org.apache.catalina.startup.Bootstrap.main(Bootstrap.java)eM Catalina.start: LifecycleException:  Protocol handler initialization failed: . ja?   = LifecycleException:  Protocol handler initialization failed: o java.net.SocketExc?o           at sE org.apache.coyote.tomcat4.CoyoteConnector.initialize(CoyoteConnector?a           at eE org.apache.catalina.core.StandardService.initialize(StandardService.?o           at fE org.apache.catalina.core.StandardServer.initialize(StandardServer.ja?   D         at org.apache.catalina.startup.Catalina.start(Catalina.java)  F         at org.apache.catalina.startup.Catalina.execute(Catalina.java)  F         at org.apache.catalina.startup.Catalina.process(Catalina.java)  F         at sun.reflect.NativeMethodAccessorImpl.invoke0(Native Method)           at /E sun.reflect.NativeMethodAccessorImpl.invoke(NativeMethodAccessorImpl?            at oE sun.reflect.DelegatingMethodAccessorImpl.invoke(DelegatingMethodAcce?   7         at java.lang.reflect.Method.invoke(Method.java)-  E         at org.apache.catalina.startup.Bootstrap.main(Bootstrap.java)e  D         at org.apache.catalina.startup.Catalina.start(Catalina.java)  F         at org.apache.catalina.startup.Catalina.execute(Catalina.java)  F         at org.apache.catalina.startup.Catalina.process(Catalina.java)  F         at sun.reflect.NativeMethodAccessorImpl.invoke0(Native Method)           at  E sun.reflect.NativeMethodAccessorImpl.invoke(NativeMethodAccessorImpl?/           at CE sun.reflect.DelegatingMethodAccessorImpl.invoke(DelegatingMethodAcce?t  7         at java.lang.reflect.Method.invoke(Method.java)k  E         at org.apache.catalina.startup.Bootstrap.main(Bootstrap.java)n  * Tomcat Logicals and Classpaths are clearedY -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------i   Is this me using TCPWare again?E3 Surely TCPWare is supported for these programs. No?-    / "Nigel Barker" <nigel@hp.com> wrote in message 02 news:jjtcm0d3pjhvvk6tst4lta9pbttecj4arg@4ax.com...D > On 8 Oct 2004 03:14:42 -0700, issinoho@gmail.com (issinoho) wrote: >01 >>1. I've got the following in my systartup file,t, >>$ @SYS$COMMON:[JAVA$142.COM]JAVA$142_SETUP/ >>$ @SYS$COMMON:[JAVA$142.COM]JAVA$CONFIG_SETUPdE >>Is this the right place for them, as I can't see any logicals, etc.P, >>when I login. If not where should they be? >mE > You should have JAVA$CONFIG_SETUP.COM & JAVA$142_SETUP.COM in your > > LOGIN.COM.I > You will want to add FAST to the invocation of the latter procedure to   > ensureH > that you use the Fast VM. Normally I would keep JAVA$CONFIG_SETUP.COM  > (generatedL > by JAVA$CONFIG_WIZARD.COM) in the user directory & not in the central JAVAI > command procedure directory as you may have different requirements for   > differents > users & Java applications. >eJ > These two command procedures set up the process environment for running  > Java && > would normally be run at login time. >tB >>2. When I run, @sys$manager:apache$jakarta, I get the following,= >>  Using CATALINA_BASE  : /sys$common/apache/jakarta/tomcat/_= >>  Using CATALINA_HOME  : /sys$common/apache/jakarta/tomcat/ A >>  Using CATALINA_TMPDIR: /sys$common/apache/jakarta/tomcat/temph >>Error: Unable to locate Java >>How do I get round this?H >>Note, if I manually run the java setup command files (see above) I get >>the same result. >uF > It sounds like symbols & logicals for Java are not set up correctly  > despite what: > you say about manually executing the command procedures. >  >>= >>3. Apache won't start. This is what I get in the log files, F >>apache$httpd.exe;1: Could not determine the server's fully qualified >>domain& >>name, using 127.0.0.1 for ServerNameE >>(76)function not implemented : make_sock: could not bind to address6 >>0.0.0.0:80/ >>no listening sockets available, shutting downe >>Unable to open logse >>D >>I'm running TCPWare 5.6-2; I have UCX V5.3 ECO 4 installed but not
 >>running. > K > Secure Web Server isn't officially supported under TCPWare but generally i > shouldD > work. Is it otherwise configured & working correctly? I only have  > experienceL > with TCP/IP Services but do recall having a problem once with Apache when  > no DNSD > was present. I would also suggest a more recent version of TCP/IP  > Services.S > G > Don't forget that you need to ensure that the process running Apache a > (normally M > APACHE$WWW) runs the Java setup command procedures before invoking Tomcat. s > AlsoI > remember to execute SYS$STARTUP:APACHE$JAKARTA_CONFIG.COM to configure  	 > Tomcat,.$ > update HTTPD.CONF with mod_jk etc. >l > -- > Nigel Barker" > Live from the sunny Cote d'Azur    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 15:46:25 GMTt! From: Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com>h Subject: Re: Java & Tomcat8 Message-ID: <b7ddm0lqpl4c0pt870f0e2fhib9ehd1nvp@4ax.com>  I On Fri, 8 Oct 2004 15:10:48 +0100, "issinoho" <issinoho@gmail.com> wrote:N   >Thanks Nigel, >AM >Even after your suggested JAVA mods I was not getting anywhere with Tomcat, rM >so I had a look in the SYS$STARTUP:APACHE$JAKARTA_CONFIG.COM file and guess i( >what, there's no support for Java 1.4.2/ >I added a section in for it and away she went.u  O Ahhh. I'd forgotten about that gotcha. I thought we had fixed it. Yes, it triesnN to use the latest version of Java that is installed but simply looks first for 1.4-1, then 1.4 then 1.3-1.u  H >Now I've configured things as per the documentation and Tomcat starts, J >however when I start Apache, I get the following in the Tomcat log files,3 >java.net.SocketException: function not implementeda> >        at java.net.PlainSocketImpl.socketBind(Native Method)? >        at java.net.PlainSocketImpl.bind(PlainSocketImpl.java) 9 >        at java.net.ServerSocket.bind(ServerSocket.java) ; >        at java.net.ServerSocket.<init>(ServerSocket.java)x; >        at java.net.ServerSocket.<init>(ServerSocket.java)s >        at     >Is this me using TCPWare again?   It looks that way.  4 >Surely TCPWare is supported for these programs. No?  M No HP only supports Apache & Tomcat on their own TCP/IP stack. Either take upnN this issue with Process software or install TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS as the latter is guaranteed to work.l   -- Nigel Barker Live from the sunny Cote d'Azurn   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 17:38:55 +0100) From: "issinoho" <issinoho@operamail.com>  Subject: Re: Java & Tomcat2 Message-ID: <1097253580.27733.0@echo.uk.clara.net>   Thanks for your time, Nigel.    / "Nigel Barker" <nigel@hp.com> wrote in message 02 news:b7ddm0lqpl4c0pt870f0e2fhib9ehd1nvp@4ax.com...K > On Fri, 8 Oct 2004 15:10:48 +0100, "issinoho" <issinoho@gmail.com> wrote:a >u >>Thanks Nigel,  >>F >>Even after your suggested JAVA mods I was not getting anywhere with 	 >>Tomcat, H >>so I had a look in the SYS$STARTUP:APACHE$JAKARTA_CONFIG.COM file and  >>guesso) >>what, there's no support for Java 1.4.2 0 >>I added a section in for it and away she went. >sL > Ahhh. I'd forgotten about that gotcha. I thought we had fixed it. Yes, it  > trieseM > to use the latest version of Java that is installed but simply looks first 2 > ford > 1.4-1, then 1.4 then 1.3-1.g > H >>Now I've configured things as per the documentation and Tomcat starts,K >>however when I start Apache, I get the following in the Tomcat log files,n4 >>java.net.SocketException: function not implemented? >>        at java.net.PlainSocketImpl.socketBind(Native Method)h@ >>        at java.net.PlainSocketImpl.bind(PlainSocketImpl.java): >>        at java.net.ServerSocket.bind(ServerSocket.java)< >>        at java.net.ServerSocket.<init>(ServerSocket.java)< >>        at java.net.ServerSocket.<init>(ServerSocket.java) >>        at >D! >>Is this me using TCPWare again?  >e > It looks that way. >e5 >>Surely TCPWare is supported for these programs. No?  > M > No HP only supports Apache & Tomcat on their own TCP/IP stack. Either take   > upM > this issue with Process software or install TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS as i > the  > latter is guaranteed to work.t >e > -- > Nigel Barker" > Live from the sunny Cote d'Azur    ------------------------------   Date: 8 Oct 2004 12:50:37 GMTr( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)- Subject: MultiNet and the OpenVMS Edu Program + Message-ID: <2sngotF1n32eqU1@uni-berlin.de>   A Just a quick question,  I know there is MultiNet for the Hobbyist < program.  Is there an equivalent to the OpenVMS Edu Program?  ? I am about to get some pretty powerful hardware (VAX, not AlphaA? or IA64) and actually have at least one professor interested at-< this time.  I need to run DecWindows and Xdmcp.  I am fairly> certain that MultiNet is the only TCPIP package that does this@ right.  In any case, I would really prefer to use MultiNet based( on my experiences with the alternatives.   bill   -- rJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   p   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 13:06:19 GMT54 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>1 Subject: Re: MultiNet and the OpenVMS Edu Programd0 Message-ID: <fhw9d.378$Ch7.307@news.cpqcorp.net>  / Why not try the current TCPIP services from HP?W  5 "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote in messages% news:2sngotF1n32eqU1@uni-berlin.de...  >gC > Just a quick question,  I know there is MultiNet for the Hobbyist > > program.  Is there an equivalent to the OpenVMS Edu Program? > A > I am about to get some pretty powerful hardware (VAX, not AlphanA > or IA64) and actually have at least one professor interested atn> > this time.  I need to run DecWindows and Xdmcp.  I am fairly@ > certain that MultiNet is the only TCPIP package that does thisB > right.  In any case, I would really prefer to use MultiNet based* > on my experiences with the alternatives. >t > bill >  > -- eL > Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesF > bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton   |@ > Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Oct 2004 13:44:31 GMTs( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)1 Subject: Re: MultiNet and the OpenVMS Edu Program + Message-ID: <2snjtvF1ltrn7U1@uni-berlin.de>d  0 In article <fhw9d.378$Ch7.307@news.cpqcorp.net>,7 	"Fred Kleinsorge" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com> writes:i1 > Why not try the current TCPIP services from HP?v  > Well, first, I think the newest set of CD's I have is probably; 7.2.  No budget for VMS here, so I won't be buying anythingu> newer.  (Not exactly sure what "current" for the VAX even is.)  = I am fairly certan that there was no support for Xdmcp in then< last IP product I tried from the VMS CD Set.  I do know that> MultiNet has it and it does work as I have used it in Hobbyist Systems.   bill   > 7 > "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote in messagen' > news:2sngotF1n32eqU1@uni-berlin.de...? >>D >> Just a quick question,  I know there is MultiNet for the Hobbyist? >> program.  Is there an equivalent to the OpenVMS Edu Program?  >>B >> I am about to get some pretty powerful hardware (VAX, not AlphaB >> or IA64) and actually have at least one professor interested at? >> this time.  I need to run DecWindows and Xdmcp.  I am fairlyeA >> certain that MultiNet is the only TCPIP package that does thisvC >> right.  In any case, I would really prefer to use MultiNet baseds+ >> on my experiences with the alternatives.c >> >> bille >> >> -- M >> Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolves G >> bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.a >> University of Scranton   |tA >> Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>o >  >    -- iJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   k   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 14:01:10 GMTd4 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>1 Subject: Re: MultiNet and the OpenVMS Edu Programh0 Message-ID: <G4x9d.381$nm7.267@news.cpqcorp.net>  D V7.3 I think.  I know that recent versions of TCPIP services for VMSH includes xdmcp - some of the network guys hang out here, so I'm sure one. will tell you what version it was released in.  5 "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message-% news:2snjtvF1ltrn7U1@uni-berlin.de...,2 > In article <fhw9d.378$Ch7.307@news.cpqcorp.net>,8 > "Fred Kleinsorge" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com> writes:3 > > Why not try the current TCPIP services from HP?. >d@ > Well, first, I think the newest set of CD's I have is probably= > 7.2.  No budget for VMS here, so I won't be buying anything @ > newer.  (Not exactly sure what "current" for the VAX even is.) >w? > I am fairly certan that there was no support for Xdmcp in the > > last IP product I tried from the VMS CD Set.  I do know that@ > MultiNet has it and it does work as I have used it in Hobbyist
 > Systems. >u > bill >s > > 9 > > "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote in messager) > > news:2sngotF1n32eqU1@uni-berlin.de...y > >>F > >> Just a quick question,  I know there is MultiNet for the HobbyistA > >> program.  Is there an equivalent to the OpenVMS Edu Program?l > >>D > >> I am about to get some pretty powerful hardware (VAX, not AlphaD > >> or IA64) and actually have at least one professor interested atA > >> this time.  I need to run DecWindows and Xdmcp.  I am fairlytC > >> certain that MultiNet is the only TCPIP package that does thiscE > >> right.  In any case, I would really prefer to use MultiNet basedd- > >> on my experiences with the alternatives.e > >>	 > >> billi > >> > >> -- H > >> Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesI > >> bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.  > >> University of Scranton   |oC > >> Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>i > >  > >y >i > -- RL > Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesF > bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton   |@ > Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Oct 2004 14:41:41 GMTc( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)1 Subject: Re: MultiNet and the OpenVMS Edu Programd+ Message-ID: <2snn95F1mopd8U1@uni-berlin.de>l  0 In article <G4x9d.381$nm7.267@news.cpqcorp.net>,7 	"Fred Kleinsorge" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com> writes: F > V7.3 I think.  I know that recent versions of TCPIP services for VMSJ > includes xdmcp - some of the network guys hang out here, so I'm sure one0 > will tell you what version it was released in.  ; Thanks for the info, I really do appreciate any help I get, 9 however, it doesn't change the fact that I have no budget 8 for anything VMS related (The new machines I am going to: be setting up are a donation.  I am waiting for permission4 before publicly crediting the benefactor.) things so< unless someone at HP is willing to send me an OS and Layered6 Products CD set (over or under the table :-) I will be stuck running 7.2.  :-(    bill     --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   .   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Oct 2004 13:02:02 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: MultiNet Edu Program + Message-ID: <2snheaF1n32eqU2@uni-berlin.de>o  @ OK, I answered my own question.  I cound the University Alliance? Program.  Sadly, I don't have $3000 to spend so it looks like Ip> am out of luck.  I don't suppose there is any chance that they= have an alternative for someone with no interest in the admin % use or official support options?  :-)    bill   -- rJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   ,   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Oct 2004 17:00:15 GMTa( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)" Subject: Not SPAM, but just as bad+ Message-ID: <2snvcvF1nbobrU1@uni-berlin.de>,  ; I just received a call from a company called IGS who openlye; admitted farming c.o.v for potential customers "in order to-< get an advantage over the competition".  I expect others can& expect to be bothered by them as well.   bill   -- jJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   a   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 13:24:51 -0400$ From: Mike Duffy <Duffy@process.com>& Subject: RE: Not SPAM, but just as badJ Message-ID: <63D30D6E10CFD11190A90000F805FE8605AED217@lespaul.process.com>   > -----Original Message-----2 > From: bill@cs.uofs.edu [mailto:bill@cs.uofs.edu]( > Sent: Friday, October 08, 2004 1:00 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com $ > Subject: Not SPAM, but just as bad >  > = > I just received a call from a company called IGS who openly = > admitted farming c.o.v for potential customers "in order to5> > get an advantage over the competition".  I expect others can( > expect to be bothered by them as well. >u  ; Are those the guys in the midwest (around Chicago, IL, USA,>? IIRC) trying to sell hardware (mostly UNIX boxes and some VMS)?a  5 I got a call from such a guy last week who would onlyh2 say "we have a researcher who looks for contacts."6 I didn't put it together it might have come from here.   -Mike Duffy    ------------------------------   Date: 8 Oct 2004 17:46:24 GMT(( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)& Subject: Re: Not SPAM, but just as bad+ Message-ID: <2so23gF1n6fe5U1@uni-berlin.de>t  % In article <4166CC43.40501@mmaz.com>,e. 	"Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> writes: >  > Bill Gunshannon wrote: > = >>I just received a call from a company called IGS who openlyn          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^= >>admitted farming c.o.v for potential customers "in order toi> >>get an advantage over the competition".  I expect others can( >>expect to be bothered by them as well. >> >>   >>F > Not if you can provide the offend MTA's IP or domain so that we can  > block them in advance...  
 VoIP?  :-)  A Of course you make it easier for him.  You have your phone nymber = at the bottom of the message.  I don't provide either a phoneu4 number or a street address and they found mine.  :-)   bill   -- xJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   a   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 10:06:47 -0400.( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>Q Subject: Re: Obsucure Inquier article about Intel mentions VMS (and not any other3, Message-ID: <41669EF7.9070506@tsoft-inc.com>   JF Mezei wrote:l   > David Froble wrote:r > R >>could get into an endless 'happy' discussion about, the bottom line is, Fred canQ >>tell you how things are now, what he knows about future plans, and that's abouth >> > O > Just like all DEC employees under Compaq were telling us on June 24 2001 that O > Alpha had a garanteed future, that IA64 was a flawed architecture with littlec# > hope of surpassing Alpha etc etc.d > N > I don't blame the ex Decies. They just weren't told. The problem is that youI > have an onwer that has lost the trust of customers on June 25 2001 (and-N > employees should understand this if they truly didn't know until June 25th).    / Maybe the trust of the employees was also lost.O    N > And HP did nothing to rebuild the lost trust, in fact, it went through a lotM > of trouble to convince customers that it would deal with VMS/Alpha the same M > way that Compaq did ("plan of record" which translates to -> we're going tor, > screw you if it helps intel or microsoft). > I > What happens when employees of a corporation see the world in a totallyiM > different colour than customers do ? bad things happen. It is important for L > employees to understand how customers perceive the various PR/announcments > made by their employers.    O What I see as a possibility is employees who may not be happy about what their tQ employer has done, may not be sure of what the employer will do next, and to top  E it off, hammered on by a 'customer' about what the employer has done.   4 About that time, my skin would be rather thin, also.     Dave   -- N4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Roadp Vanderbilt, PA  15486a   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Oct 2004 02:33:08 -0700 ' From: icerq4a@spray.se (David Svensson)"V Subject: Re: Obsucure Inquier article about Intel mentions VMS (and not any other OS')= Message-ID: <734da31c.0410080133.5deda00c@posting.google.com>Y   Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<ck3oo5$831$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...a > David Svensson wrote: u > > Andrew Harrison <andrew_remove__harrison@sun__.com> wrote in message news:<ck11gn$9vu$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...  > >  > >>Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > >>P > >>>SunRay is only an option if you have a Sun server to connect it to.  If youP > >>>are using a VMS server for your VXT 2000+ as an X-Terminal, and you want toO > >>>dump it - the simplest option is to get a PC configured with a X emulator.o/ > >>>Or just find a new/used Alpha workstation.u > >>>i > >>I > >>Things have changed. SRSS 3.0 (SunRay Server Software) is now in Beta I > >>for Linux. I have it running on JDS (SUSE) and it also runs on RedHatoG > >>so the backend hardware does not need to be a Sun though we do selldJ > >>the best 2 way and 4 way x86/AMD64 boxes so why would you go elsewhere > >>anyway.a > >  > > > > > Andrew Harrison, Sun Marketing, we are the best. How cool. >e >It is of course a point6 > that could be marketed but then no-one on this group; > has ever been exposed to their favourite vendor marketing , > OpenVMS on its technical merits have they.  P I actually think they have. Digital used to talk about OpenVMS technical merits.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 14:10:07 GMT 4 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>V Subject: Re: Obsucure Inquier article about Intel mentions VMS (and not any other OS')0 Message-ID: <3dx9d.383$7n7.127@news.cpqcorp.net>  I But the entire digression is irrelevant if the user needs to connect to adG VMS server, unless as I asked, if the SRSS code is freeware that can ber- ported to VMS, or unless Sun does a VMS port.M  H SunRay isn't an X11 Terminal, it doesn't speak X11 (at least last time II checked).  It is more akin to a custom VNC solution done with a dedicateduH client.  The bandwidth needed to run many of these connections, as it isD composed of compressed image blits, means that in general you need aJ dedicated LAN for it.  It's speed will be limited to general text and menuK use, as it is a software color frame buffer driving a image compressor - soiK it would not be suitable for heavy 2D or 3D drawing.  But for it's intended ? use, it is a clever little appliance with some nice advantages.r    K "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>j; wrote in message news:ck635p$4gh$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com...m > David Svensson wrote:c% > > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy:8 <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message, news:<ck3oo5$831$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>... > >o > >>David Svensson wrote:a > >>I > >>>Andrew Harrison <andrew_remove__harrison@sun__.com> wrote in messagee, news:<ck11gn$9vu$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>... > >>>J > >>>  > >>>>Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > >>>> > >>>>J > >>>>>SunRay is only an option if you have a Sun server to connect it to. If youJ > >>>>>are using a VMS server for your VXT 2000+ as an X-Terminal, and you want toJG > >>>>>dump it - the simplest option is to get a PC configured with a Xm	 emulator.l1 > >>>>>Or just find a new/used Alpha workstation.l > >>>>>i > >>>>K > >>>>Things have changed. SRSS 3.0 (SunRay Server Software) is now in BetavK > >>>>for Linux. I have it running on JDS (SUSE) and it also runs on RedHateI > >>>>so the backend hardware does not need to be a Sun though we do sell:L > >>>>the best 2 way and 4 way x86/AMD64 boxes so why would you go elsewhere
 > >>>>anyway.h > >>>  > >>>m? > >>>Andrew Harrison, Sun Marketing, we are the best. How cool.s > >> > >>It is of course a pointy8 > >>that could be marketed but then no-one on this group= > >>has ever been exposed to their favourite vendor marketingA. > >>OpenVMS on its technical merits have they. > >s > >AL > > I actually think they have. Digital used to talk about OpenVMS technical merits.o >oE > Anything that happened over a decade ago hardly is relevant to thiss
 > discussion.g > 	 > regardss > Andrew Harrisono >    ------------------------------   Date: 8 Oct 2004 11:58:55 -0500l; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)sV Subject: Re: Obsucure Inquier article about Intel mentions VMS (and not any other OS')3 Message-ID: <xi$c2sYE$8mV@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  f In article <81W8d.204$yg5.72@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com> writes: > K > Itanium servers have embedded graphics in the form of an ATI Radeon 7000.-L > In the rx1600 case, this comes as part of the management processor option.I > You can also add the ATI Radeon 7500.  We are currently in qual for the- > graphics for V8.2.  3    OK, it will work.  I think we already knew that.X  E    OK, let me make this clear:  what will the SPD say with respect toA6    support for running DECwindows on the Itanium line?   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 17:11:23 GMT 4 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>V Subject: Re: Obsucure Inquier article about Intel mentions VMS (and not any other OS')0 Message-ID: <%Sz9d.410$ey7.172@news.cpqcorp.net>  H "Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:xi$c2sYE$8mV@eisner.encompasserve.org... C > In article <81W8d.204$yg5.72@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge"e$ <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com> writes: > >lG > > Itanium servers have embedded graphics in the form of an ATI Radeonl 7000.-F > > In the rx1600 case, this comes as part of the management processor option.pK > > You can also add the ATI Radeon 7500.  We are currently in qual for the0 > > graphics for V8.2. ><5 >    OK, it will work.  I think we already knew that.  >tG >    OK, let me make this clear:  what will the SPD say with respect to 8 >    support for running DECwindows on the Itanium line? >o    The same thing it says on Alpha.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 14:02:47 +0100FO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>wY Subject: Re: Obsucure Inquier article about Intel mentions VMS (and not any other OS') ot10 Message-ID: <ck635p$4gh$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   David Svensson wrote:o > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<ck3oo5$831$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...R >  >>David Svensson wrote:& >>t >>>Andrew Harrison <andrew_remove__harrison@sun__.com> wrote in message news:<ck11gn$9vu$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>... >>>a >>>. >>>>Fred Kleinsorge wrote: >>>> >>>>P >>>>>SunRay is only an option if you have a Sun server to connect it to.  If youP >>>>>are using a VMS server for your VXT 2000+ as an X-Terminal, and you want toO >>>>>dump it - the simplest option is to get a PC configured with a X emulator.c/ >>>>>Or just find a new/used Alpha workstation.M >>>>>s >>>>I >>>>Things have changed. SRSS 3.0 (SunRay Server Software) is now in BetaeI >>>>for Linux. I have it running on JDS (SUSE) and it also runs on RedHataG >>>>so the backend hardware does not need to be a Sun though we do sell J >>>>the best 2 way and 4 way x86/AMD64 boxes so why would you go elsewhere >>>>anyway.p >>>u >>> = >>>Andrew Harrison, Sun Marketing, we are the best. How cool.e >> >>It is of course a pointn6 >>that could be marketed but then no-one on this group; >>has ever been exposed to their favourite vendor marketingm, >>OpenVMS on its technical merits have they. >  > R > I actually think they have. Digital used to talk about OpenVMS technical merits.  C Anything that happened over a decade ago hardly is relevant to thisi discussion.e   regards  Andrew Harrisons   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 15:44:05 +0100rO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>lY Subject: Re: Obsucure Inquier article about Intel mentions VMS (and not any other OS') otc0 Message-ID: <ck693m$70r$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:K > But the entire digression is irrelevant if the user needs to connect to anI > VMS server, unless as I asked, if the SRSS code is freeware that can be:/ > ported to VMS, or unless Sun does a VMS port.p > J > SunRay isn't an X11 Terminal, it doesn't speak X11 (at least last time IK > checked).  It is more akin to a custom VNC solution done with a dedicated1J > client.  The bandwidth needed to run many of these connections, as it isF > composed of compressed image blits, means that in general you need aL > dedicated LAN for it.  It's speed will be limited to general text and menuM > use, as it is a software color frame buffer driving a image compressor - sohM > it would not be suitable for heavy 2D or 3D drawing.  But for it's intended.A > use, it is a clever little appliance with some nice advantages.s >   G The SunRay isn't an X-terminal but a number of SunRays plus a Linux boxl are.   Regards- Andrew Harrison- > M > "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>S= > wrote in message news:ck635p$4gh$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com...  >  >>David Svensson wrote:/ >>$ >>>Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy > : > <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message. > news:<ck3oo5$831$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>... >  >>>>David Svensson wrote:R >>>> >>>>I >>>>>Andrew Harrison <andrew_remove__harrison@sun__.com> wrote in message. > . > news:<ck11gn$9vu$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>... >  >>>>>n >>>>>>Fred Kleinsorge wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>J >>>>>>>SunRay is only an option if you have a Sun server to connect it to. >  > If you > J >>>>>>>are using a VMS server for your VXT 2000+ as an X-Terminal, and you > 	 > want toc > G >>>>>>>dump it - the simplest option is to get a PC configured with a Xe >  > emulator.t > 1 >>>>>>>Or just find a new/used Alpha workstation.  >>>>>>>j >>>>>>K >>>>>>Things have changed. SRSS 3.0 (SunRay Server Software) is now in Beta(K >>>>>>for Linux. I have it running on JDS (SUSE) and it also runs on RedHat)I >>>>>>so the backend hardware does not need to be a Sun though we do selleL >>>>>>the best 2 way and 4 way x86/AMD64 boxes so why would you go elsewhere
 >>>>>>anyway.o >>>>>  >>>>>o? >>>>>Andrew Harrison, Sun Marketing, we are the best. How cool.  >>>> >>>>It is of course a pointc8 >>>>that could be marketed but then no-one on this group= >>>>has ever been exposed to their favourite vendor marketinga. >>>>OpenVMS on its technical merits have they. >>>S >>>rK >>>I actually think they have. Digital used to talk about OpenVMS technicalp > 	 > merits.( > E >>Anything that happened over a decade ago hardly is relevant to thisa
 >>discussion.  >>	 >>regardsh >>Andrew HarrisonC >> >  >  >    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 06:33:59 -0400' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com>a* Subject: RE: OpenVMS non-advertising todayR Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB45D7B0@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----4 > From: David Froble [mailto:davef@tsoft-inc.com]=20  > Sent: October 7, 2004 11:33 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coma, > Subject: Re: OpenVMS non-advertising today >=20 > Main, Kerry wrote: >=20B >  > Also: http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/brochures/ise/ise.pdf >  >B >  > ""OpenVMS is a proven product that's been battle tested in=20 > the field. That'st8 >  >  why we were extremely confident in building the=20 > technology architecture of. >  >  the ISE on OpenVMS AlphaServer systems." >=20& > Really hate to do this to you Kerry. >=20@ > How soon will HP force them off these VMS AlphaServers that=20 > the customer has=20g > such extreme confidence in?n >=20 > Dave >=20  " That's easy - HP won't force them.  H They can determine their own schedule as best suites their own needs.=20  F Since mixed IPF/Alpha clusters work fine and are officially supported,F they can phase IPF servers in gradually over the next number of years.   Regardse  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant( HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660. Fax: 613-591-4477. kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  $ "OpenVMS has always had integrity .. Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .."   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 07:21:21 -0400s- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> * Subject: Re: OpenVMS non-advertising today, Message-ID: <41667818.58690E74@teksavvy.com>   "Main, Kerry" wrote:H > Since mixed IPF/Alpha clusters work fine and are officially supported,H > they can phase IPF servers in gradually over the next number of years.  C Just because it is supported at the OS level doesn't mean that your.N application providers will support this, and it doesn't mean that the customerF will really want to have the same application running on two differentN architectures at the same time since this entails most interesting maintenanceK issues. (you can't patch one without patching the other at the same time). u  I Consider just the issue of an application that doesn't know that if it ismM running in an IA64 box, it must submit any batch jobs to IA64 specific queue,3/ and if on Alpha, only to Alpha specific queues.:  M What it does allow is to migrate separate non interlinked applications one by4& one while keeping a common SYSUAF.DAT.  K However, when you consider the cost of having essentially duplicate systemssN running side by side  to support applications that used to run on one machine,M this does add to the costs of the transition quite a bit, unless HP gives you L the IA64 box at no additional support/licence costs for a period long enoughK to allow you to comfortably perform the migration of all your apps. In thisOM case, HP won't get much in terms of revenus. And hopefully HP will coerce allh< ISVs to also allow such cushy conversion business practices.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 10:20:12 -0400# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>t* Subject: Re: OpenVMS non-advertising today, Message-ID: <yumdnQ_j7JCBP_vcRVn-tA@igs.net>   Main, Kerry wrote: >> -----Original Message----- 2 >> From: David Froble [mailto:davef@tsoft-inc.com]! >> Sent: October 7, 2004 11:33 PM  >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com- >> Subject: Re: OpenVMS non-advertising todayA >> >> Main, Kerry wrote:/ >>C >>  > Also: http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/brochures/ise/ise.pdfd >>  > @ >>  > ""OpenVMS is a proven product that's been battle tested in >> the field. That's6 >>  >  why we were extremely confident in building the >> technology architecture ofp/ >>  >  the ISE on OpenVMS AlphaServer systems."c >>' >> Really hate to do this to you Kerry.  >>> >> How soon will HP force them off these VMS AlphaServers that >> the customer hash >> such extreme confidence in? >> >> Dave  >> >2$ > That's easy - HP won't force them. >tG > They can determine their own schedule as best suites their own needs.l >eH > Since mixed IPF/Alpha clusters work fine and are officially supported,H > they can phase IPF servers in gradually over the next number of years.    G It may not only be an Alpha->IA64 transition, but a VMS->something elsel+ transition the customer may be forced into.g  D In all the VMS accounts I know of, HP does nothing to very little toL encourage customers to stay on VMS -- thinking that if the customer wants toL move from VMS, HP will simply hope and pray that the customer will buy a few> PC's from HP -- and call that a successful customer retention.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 10:18:01 -0400r( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>* Subject: Re: OpenVMS non-advertising today, Message-ID: <4166A199.6090904@tsoft-inc.com>   Main, Kerry wrote:   >  >>-----Original Message-----2 >>From: David Froble [mailto:davef@tsoft-inc.com]   >>Sent: October 7, 2004 11:33 PM >>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com , >>Subject: Re: OpenVMS non-advertising today >> >>Main, Kerry wrote: >>B >> > Also: http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/brochures/ise/ise.pdf >> >@ >> > ""OpenVMS is a proven product that's been battle tested in  >>the field. That'se6 >> >  why we were extremely confident in building the  >>technology architecture of. >> >  the ISE on OpenVMS AlphaServer systems." >>& >>Really hate to do this to you Kerry. >>> >>How soon will HP force them off these VMS AlphaServers that  >>the customer has h >>such extreme confidence in?e >> >>Dave >> >> > $ > That's easy - HP won't force them.    6 Not selling Alphas in the future sure has that effect.    H > They can determine their own schedule as best suites their own needs.     M Schedule for what?  Being forced off the AlphaServers that they have extreme e confidence in?    H > Since mixed IPF/Alpha clusters work fine and are officially supported,H > they can phase IPF servers in gradually over the next number of years.  P I didn't see anything about having confidence in IPF.  Now, if the customer had L said that they had confidence in IPF in the future also, that's a different O story.  What you're doing is taking a statement that says quite explicitly one  7 thing, and trying to inply something totally different.e  J So, come 2006, or whatever the date is, and this customer has a desire to O continue buying AlphaServers, and no desire to buy IPF, What will HP tell them?    Dave   -- t4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Roado Vanderbilt, PA  15486:   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Oct 2004 12:09:15 -0500>; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)p* Subject: Re: OpenVMS non-advertising today3 Message-ID: <lBOirgzabsUT@eisner.encompasserve.org>4  \ In article <4166102D.D082F395@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:K > It has often been stated that VMS is still the platform that handles the I( > majority of SMS messages in the world. >  > yet, according to:A > http://h71019.www7.hp.com/enterprise/cache/17199-0-0-0-121.aspxe > 2 > HP-UX now handles 70% of SMS messages worldwide. > P > Who is right ? who is wrong ? Or has HP succesfully converted that many ex VMSP > customers to HP-UX so it can claim 70% of the world's SMS are handled by HP-UX > servers ?n      Define SMS.   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Oct 2004 12:08:59 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)c* Subject: Re: OpenVMS non-advertising today3 Message-ID: <$c0TI0ZB06UW@eisner.encompasserve.org>S  W In article <41660A66.3010001@tsoft-inc.com>, David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:t > O > How soon will HP force them off these VMS AlphaServers that the customer has j > such extreme confidence in?v  G    How many customers are dumb enough to let HP dictate which computers)    are eating thier electicity?u   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Oct 2004 12:10:34 -0500i; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)t* Subject: Re: OpenVMS non-advertising today3 Message-ID: <3loyxHjnfSoX@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  \ In article <41667818.58690E74@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:  E > Just because it is supported at the OS level doesn't mean that your-P > application providers will support this, and it doesn't mean that the customerH > will really want to have the same application running on two differentP > architectures at the same time since this entails most interesting maintenanceM > issues. (you can't patch one without patching the other at the same time).    /    Funny, worked that way with VAXen and Alpha.V   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Oct 2004 02:01:31 -0700e. From: martinkirby12@yahoo.co.uk (Martin Kirby)A Subject: Re: X11 Forwarding problems without an interactive shella< Message-ID: <224291b.0410080101.73650b05@posting.google.com>  d waspswarm@gmail.com wrote in message news:<1097188143.296898.211140@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>... > 7 > I then tried to see if the display logical was setup,c2 > $ ssh -t -X BOZO@vmshost 'show log decw$display' > BOZO@vmshost's password: > > > %SHOW-S-NOTRAN, no translation for logical name DECW$DISPLAY > $ > With an interactive shell however, > $ ssh -t -X BOZO@vmshost > BOZO@vmshost's password:@ > Welcome to OpenVMS (TM) Alpha Operating System, Version V7.3-2 > 1 > SETTING PROMPT AND TERM FOR INTERACTIVE SESSION3( > %SET-W-NOTSET, error modifying FTA216:' > -SET-I-UNKTERM, unknown terminal typeu > Hello BOZO > Welcome to vmshost& > vmshost_[BOZO]>show log decw$displayC > "DECW$DISPLAY" = "vmshost.whitehouse.com:10.0" (LNM$JOB_816EC000)r >e  > I can't comment on the "ssh" aspect. However, as regards this.D DECwindows is just as happy with DECW$DISPLAY as a string as being aF device. So the problem comes down to DECW$DISPLAY not being set in the( first case, not a need for a WSA device.   Martin Kirby   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Oct 2004 02:02:33 -0700d. From: martinkirby12@yahoo.co.uk (Martin Kirby)A Subject: Re: X11 Forwarding problems without an interactive shelli< Message-ID: <224291b.0410080102.44ea82f9@posting.google.com>  d waspswarm@gmail.com wrote in message news:<1097188143.296898.211140@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>...7 > I then tried to see if the display logical was setup,e2 > $ ssh -t -X BOZO@vmshost 'show log decw$display' > BOZO@vmshost's password: > > > %SHOW-S-NOTRAN, no translation for logical name DECW$DISPLAY > $ > With an interactive shell however, > $ ssh -t -X BOZO@vmshost > BOZO@vmshost's password:@ > Welcome to OpenVMS (TM) Alpha Operating System, Version V7.3-2 > 1 > SETTING PROMPT AND TERM FOR INTERACTIVE SESSIONi( > %SET-W-NOTSET, error modifying FTA216:' > -SET-I-UNKTERM, unknown terminal typew > Hello BOZO > Welcome to vmshost& > vmshost_[BOZO]>show log decw$displayC > "DECW$DISPLAY" = "vmshost.whitehouse.com:10.0" (LNM$JOB_816EC000)e > E > So the logical seems to be setup but the display device does not? I   > wonder if this is the problem?  > I can't comment on the "ssh" aspect. However, as regards this.D DECwindows is just as happy with DECW$DISPLAY as a string as being aF device. So the problem comes down to DECW$DISPLAY not being set in the( first case, not a need for a WSA device.   Martin Kirby   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.559 ************************am?  >>B >> I am about to get some pretty powerful hardware (VAX, not AlphaB >> or IA648vI.EЃYA@",DA9V)m4MkODH&(
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