1 INFO-VAX	Mon, 11 Oct 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 564       Contents: Re: Backup & NFS@ Re: Bridging two separate DECnet Phase-IV networks over Internet@ Re: Bridging two separate DECnet Phase-IV networks over Internet@ Re: Bridging two separate DECnet Phase-IV networks over Internet@ Re: Bridging two separate DECnet Phase-IV networks over Internet@ Re: Bridging two separate DECnet Phase-IV networks over Internet@ Re: Bridging two separate DECnet Phase-IV networks over Internet@ Re: Bridging two separate DECnet Phase-IV networks over Internet Re: Not SPAM, but just as bad  Re: Not SPAM, but just as bad  Re: Not SPAM, but just as bad  Re: Not SPAM, but just as bad P Re: Obsucure Inquier article about Intel mentions VMS (and not any   other  OS')P RE: Obsucure Inquier article about Intel mentions VMS (and not any other  OS') oP Re: Obsucure Inquier article about Intel mentions VMS (and not any other  OS') oP RE: Obsucure Inquier article about Intel mentions VMS (and not any other  OS') oP RE: Obsucure Inquier article about Intel mentions VMS (and not any other  OS') oP RE: Obsucure Inquier article about Intel mentions VMS (and not any other  OS') o6 Re: OpenVMS and Synergex Positions Baltimore/Wash/Phil6 RE: OpenVMS and Synergex Positions Baltimore/Wash/Phil6 Re: OpenVMS and Synergex Positions Baltimore/Wash/Phil6 Re: OpenVMS and Synergex Positions Baltimore/Wash/Phil7 RE: relation between BG buffersize and TCP packetsize ?  Sayonara storage Re: Sayonara storage Re: Sayonara storage Re: Sayonara storage Re: Sayonara storage Re: Sayonara storage Re: Sayonara storage Re: Sayonara storage Re: Sayonara storage# Re: SHOW DEVICE/FILES with FORTRAN? # Re: SHOW DEVICE/FILES with FORTRAN?  Small problem with UNZIP on VMS # Re: Small problem with UNZIP on VMS  Some RDB news, FWIW... Re: Sun Java and Kodak.  Re: Sun Java and Kodak.  Re: Sun Java and Kodak. 0 Re: SYS$PARSE: prevented translation of logicals0 Re: SYS$PARSE: prevented translation of logicals* You can't train a genius in four weeks ...+ [BUFFER_LIMIT of RUN commnad, what is this? / Re: [BUFFER_LIMIT of RUN commnad, what is this?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 01:34:03 +0000 (UTC) . From: Dale Dellutri <ddelQQQlutr@panQQQix.com> Subject: Re: Backup & NFS , Message-ID: <ckcnub$ekc$1@reader2.panix.com>  L On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 12:40:31 +0200, JOUKJ <joukj@hrem.stm.tudelft.nl> wrote:E > I'm trying to backup NFS mounted filesystems to tape using the VMS   > backup command.  > I get some weird errors:N > %BACKUP-E-OPENDIR, error opening directory TARANTELLA$ROOT:[HOME.JOUKJ.PLOT]$ > -SYSTEM-W-NOSUCHFILE, no such fileI > %BACKUP-E-OPENIN, error opening TARANTELLA$ROOT:[HOME.JOUKJ]PLOT.DIR;1  
 > as input$ > -SYSTEM-W-NOSUCHFILE, no such fileD > The error ocuurs when the NFS mounted file systems are physically H > located on a PC with Fedora core 2. (File systems located on an Alpha ( > with Redhat 7.x seem to be unaffected)K > The files which "cannot be found" are always directory files, and always   > the same directory files.   F One more wild guess: is there a file called plot.dir (which would not G be a directory, just an ordinary file) in the /home/joukj directory or  " in the tarantella$root: hierarchy?   --  7 Dale Dellutri <ddelQQQlutr@panQQQix.com> (lose the Q's)    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 19:12:37 GMT 6 From: Brian Inglis <Brian.Inglis@SystematicSW.Invalid>I Subject: Re: Bridging two separate DECnet Phase-IV networks over Internet 8 Message-ID: <um1jm01n9v2i6a5qfmambdm755jq2o33f4@4ax.com>  A On 10 Oct 2004 08:40:26 -0700 in alt.sys.pdp11, bob@jfcl.com (Bob  Armstrong) wrote:   F >At my site I have a small (ten nodes or so) "DECnet-IV over Ethernet"G >network with one or two fairly modern VAXes running recent versions of F >OVMS 7.x, and several older PDP-11s running more "classic" software. D >The OVMS machines run UCX and are happily connected to the Internet >now.  > E >  A friend has a similar setup in a different city, and we'd like to D >set up some kind of point-to-point "DECnet tunnel" over Internet to >bridge the two LANs.  > E >  DECnet Phase-V supports "DECnet over IP" and is an obvious choice, C >but it doesn't seem to support actual tunneling of DECnet Phase-IV G >messages over IP.  So only the Phase V machines can talk and the other G >DECnet Phase IV machines can't see each other.  That's pretty useless.  > G >  I've heard that other TCP/IP stacks for VMS (Multinet?) support real F >Phase-IV tunnelling, but I don't know anything about them and they'reC >probably unsupported and hard to get now.  If I have a choice, I'd  >rather stay with UCX. > A >  What'd be really cool is if somebody had written a "DDCMP over G >TELNET" driver for VMS.  A little ugly and slow perhaps, but with that @ >we could set up a virtual point-to-point DDCMP link between twoC >Phase-IV routing nodes using TELNET as the physical link.  It'd be  >exactly what we want. >   >  Do we have any other options?  ? Have you tried setting up your Phase V machines as Area Routers  routing to each other?    C Any chance you both have (Cisco, not sure if others support DECnet) D routers at each end which could be configured to support DECnet over IP?   6 Google results for "DECnet over IP" OR "OSI over IP": k http://www.google.com/search?q=%22DECnet+over+IP%22+OR+%22OSI+over+IP%22&safe=off&num=100&hl=en&btnG=Search   ! Specs for OSI and DECnet over IP: $ http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1006.txt # (first "page" is blank scroll down) # http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1859.txt  (see section 4)    --  9 Thanks. Take care, Brian Inglis 	Calgary, Alberta, Canada   F Brian.Inglis@CSi.com 	(Brian[dot]Inglis{at}SystematicSW[dot]ab[dot]ca),     fake address		use address above to reply   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 14:37:05 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>I Subject: Re: Bridging two separate DECnet Phase-IV networks over Internet + Message-ID: <41698F60.77A4460E@comcast.net>    Bob Armstrong wrote: > G > At my site I have a small (ten nodes or so) "DECnet-IV over Ethernet" H > network with one or two fairly modern VAXes running recent versions ofF > OVMS 7.x, and several older PDP-11s running more "classic" software.E > The OVMS machines run UCX and are happily connected to the Internet  > now. > F >   A friend has a similar setup in a different city, and we'd like toE > set up some kind of point-to-point "DECnet tunnel" over Internet to  > bridge the two LANs. > F >   DECnet Phase-V supports "DECnet over IP" and is an obvious choice,D > but it doesn't seem to support actual tunneling of DECnet Phase-IVH > messages over IP.  So only the Phase V machines can talk and the otherH > DECnet Phase IV machines can't see each other.  That's pretty useless. > H >   I've heard that other TCP/IP stacks for VMS (Multinet?) support realG > Phase-IV tunnelling, but I don't know anything about them and they're D > probably unsupported and hard to get now.  If I have a choice, I'd > rather stay with UCX.  > B >   What'd be really cool is if somebody had written a "DDCMP overH > TELNET" driver for VMS.  A little ugly and slow perhaps, but with thatA > we could set up a virtual point-to-point DDCMP link between two D > Phase-IV routing nodes using TELNET as the physical link.  It'd be > exactly what we want.  > ! >   Do we have any other options?   < Yes. Both TCPware and Multinet from Process Software supportH DECnet-over-TCP/IP as point-to-point links in the current versions which are fully supported.    ? I believe both are available under the OpenVMS hobbyist program B (Multinet for sure - I run it here at home). You can even find the documentation on-line.   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 17:15:17 -0400 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>I Subject: Re: Bridging two separate DECnet Phase-IV networks over Internet , Message-ID: <4169A665.2000709@tsoft-inc.com>   Bob Armstrong wrote:  G > At my site I have a small (ten nodes or so) "DECnet-IV over Ethernet" H > network with one or two fairly modern VAXes running recent versions ofG > OVMS 7.x, and several older PDP-11s running more "classic" software.  E > The OVMS machines run UCX and are happily connected to the Internet  > now. > F >   A friend has a similar setup in a different city, and we'd like toE > set up some kind of point-to-point "DECnet tunnel" over Internet to  > bridge the two LANs. > F >   DECnet Phase-V supports "DECnet over IP" and is an obvious choice,D > but it doesn't seem to support actual tunneling of DECnet Phase-IVH > messages over IP.  So only the Phase V machines can talk and the otherH > DECnet Phase IV machines can't see each other.  That's pretty useless. > H >   I've heard that other TCP/IP stacks for VMS (Multinet?) support realG > Phase-IV tunnelling, but I don't know anything about them and they're D > probably unsupported and hard to get now.  If I have a choice, I'd > rather stay with UCX.  > B >   What'd be really cool is if somebody had written a "DDCMP overH > TELNET" driver for VMS.  A little ugly and slow perhaps, but with thatA > we could set up a virtual point-to-point DDCMP link between two D > Phase-IV routing nodes using TELNET as the physical link.  It'd be > exactly what we want.  > ! >   Do we have any other options?  > 	 > Thanks,  > Bob Armstrong  >   N Ok, I'm a bit outside areas I'm rather familiar with, but the first thing I'd O explore is a VPN.  My understanding is that it basaically extends the ethernet  N over the tunnel.  Possibly it works only with TCP/IP, and then you're back to O the original question.  As another observed, TCPware and Multinet both support   DECnet Phase IV through TCP/IP.    Dave   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------   Date: 10 Oct 2004 22:15:53 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)I Subject: Re: Bridging two separate DECnet Phase-IV networks over Internet + Message-ID: <2stqkpF1phggkU1@uni-berlin.de>   , In article <4169A665.2000709@tsoft-inc.com>,+ 	David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:  > Bob Armstrong wrote: > H >> At my site I have a small (ten nodes or so) "DECnet-IV over Ethernet"I >> network with one or two fairly modern VAXes running recent versions of H >> OVMS 7.x, and several older PDP-11s running more "classic" software. F >> The OVMS machines run UCX and are happily connected to the Internet >> now.  >>  G >>   A friend has a similar setup in a different city, and we'd like to F >> set up some kind of point-to-point "DECnet tunnel" over Internet to >> bridge the two LANs.  >>  G >>   DECnet Phase-V supports "DECnet over IP" and is an obvious choice, E >> but it doesn't seem to support actual tunneling of DECnet Phase-IV I >> messages over IP.  So only the Phase V machines can talk and the other I >> DECnet Phase IV machines can't see each other.  That's pretty useless.  >>  I >>   I've heard that other TCP/IP stacks for VMS (Multinet?) support real H >> Phase-IV tunnelling, but I don't know anything about them and they'reE >> probably unsupported and hard to get now.  If I have a choice, I'd  >> rather stay with UCX. >>  C >>   What'd be really cool is if somebody had written a "DDCMP over I >> TELNET" driver for VMS.  A little ugly and slow perhaps, but with that B >> we could set up a virtual point-to-point DDCMP link between twoE >> Phase-IV routing nodes using TELNET as the physical link.  It'd be  >> exactly what we want. >>  " >>   Do we have any other options? >>   > P > Ok, I'm a bit outside areas I'm rather familiar with, but the first thing I'd Q > explore is a VPN.  My understanding is that it basaically extends the ethernet  P > over the tunnel.  Possibly it works only with TCP/IP, and then you're back to Q > the original question.  As another observed, TCPware and Multinet both support  ! > DECnet Phase IV through TCP/IP.  >     9 Try looking at:  http://www.cs.ait.ac.th/ai3/reports/eop/   : I haven't done it, but it looks like one possible solution   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------    Date: 10 Oct 2004 16:41:48 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)I Subject: Re: Bridging two separate DECnet Phase-IV networks over Internet = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0410101541.18395c3c@posting.google.com>   g bob@jfcl.com (Bob Armstrong) wrote in message news:<dc5428e3.0410100740.21fbef2f@posting.google.com>...  > H >   I've heard that other TCP/IP stacks for VMS (Multinet?) support realG > Phase-IV tunnelling, but I don't know anything about them and they're D > probably unsupported and hard to get now.  If I have a choice, I'd > rather stay with UCX.  > ! >   Do we have any other options?  > 	 > Thanks,  > Bob Armstrong   C TCPware is hardly out of support ... we currently have and have had D for years!  It has SSH2 and all other current options, many that ucxB still does not offer ... and it is the only IP stack that supportsB TRUE decnet phase IV over IP ... and for a price, Process softwareC will SSL enable it to run over an encrypted tunnel ... Process also A has other vms software like PMDF and Sophos offers virus scanning C for PMDF for non vms mail clients ... then they still sell purveyor A web and proxy server ... TCPware is THE BEST IP stack to open vms ? to the internet ... here is a comparison of features to ucx ...   , http://www.process.com/tcpip/tcpcompare.html   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Oct 2004 16:44:36 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)I Subject: Re: Bridging two separate DECnet Phase-IV networks over Internet = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0410101544.22a25bec@posting.google.com>   g bob@jfcl.com (Bob Armstrong) wrote in message news:<dc5428e3.0410100740.21fbef2f@posting.google.com>...   : and TCPware runs faster than both ucx and multinet in head: to head web apps testing we did because it is based on the vms kernel, not bsd!   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 06:41:54 +0200 , From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems.dotweg@zonnet.nl>I Subject: Re: Bridging two separate DECnet Phase-IV networks over Internet + Message-ID: <2suhccF1prnc3U1@uni-berlin.de>   1 "Bob Armstrong" <bob@jfcl.com> schreef in bericht 7 news:dc5428e3.0410100740.21fbef2f@posting.google.com... G > At my site I have a small (ten nodes or so) "DECnet-IV over Ethernet" H > network with one or two fairly modern VAXes running recent versions ofF > OVMS 7.x, and several older PDP-11s running more "classic" software.E > The OVMS machines run UCX and are happily connected to the Internet  > now. > F >   A friend has a similar setup in a different city, and we'd like toE > set up some kind of point-to-point "DECnet tunnel" over Internet to  > bridge the two LANs. > F >   DECnet Phase-V supports "DECnet over IP" and is an obvious choice,D > but it doesn't seem to support actual tunneling of DECnet Phase-IVH > messages over IP.  So only the Phase V machines can talk and the otherH > DECnet Phase IV machines can't see each other.  That's pretty useless. > H >   I've heard that other TCP/IP stacks for VMS (Multinet?) support realG > Phase-IV tunnelling, but I don't know anything about them and they're D > probably unsupported and hard to get now.  If I have a choice, I'd > rather stay with UCX.  > B >   What'd be really cool is if somebody had written a "DDCMP overH > TELNET" driver for VMS.  A little ugly and slow perhaps, but with thatA > we could set up a virtual point-to-point DDCMP link between two D > Phase-IV routing nodes using TELNET as the physical link.  It'd be > exactly what we want.  > ! >   Do we have any other options?  > 	 > Thanks,  > Bob Armstrong   / The way I understand DECnet over IP you should: ) 1) have one phase V node at each location 1 2) put each site in its own DECnet (phae IV) area 3 3) upgrade the phase V nodes to DECnet area routers  Or is this too simple?   Hans   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 14:15:24 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>& Subject: Re: Not SPAM, but just as bad+ Message-ID: <41698A4C.870D8C61@comcast.net>    David Froble wrote:  >  > Bill Gunshannon wrote: > 0 > > In article <41680925.3030400@tsoft-inc.com>,4 > >       David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes: > >  > >>Barry Treahy, Jr. wrote: > >> > >> > >>>Bill Gunshannon wrote:  > >>>  > >>> A > >>>>I just received a call from a company called IGS who openly A > >>>>admitted farming c.o.v for potential customers "in order to B > >>>>get an advantage over the competition".  I expect others can, > >>>>expect to be bothered by them as well. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>H > >>>Not if you can provide the offend MTA's IP or domain so that we can > >>>block them in advance...  > >>> 
 > >>>Barry > >>>  > >>> P > >>Note that he said 'call', not 'spammed'.  I also got a call.  The person wasM > >>very pleasant, and admitted that they had tried e-mail and was accused of T > >>spamming.  They changed tactics, calling for permission to send info via e-mail. > >>P > >>I for one think that this is a reasonable approach.  If you don't want theirK > >>info, they would drop it there.  Far cry from the approach of spammers.  > >>T > >>I've got no use for them at the present, but, it seems a service some VMS people< > >>may require at some time.  Seems a valid approach to me. > >> > > N > > So, I take it you like it when tele-marketers call you at dinner time too? > >  > > bill > >  > >  > R > There's a fine line involved here.  Some are pleased to find out about somethingP > that might interest them.  Others don't want a call for any reason whatsoever.Q > In this particular case, it is a product/service that has been targetted, and I N > am a potential customer, and the call was made during normal business hours. > R > So the primary question is, are you one of those people who feel that no call is; > ever acceptable?  If so then there is nothing to discuss.   B Agreed. The Do Not Call question is perhaps best left to others to decide.   H The call came during business hours. I happened to be home on a vacationG day and I only answered it intending to chew the caller's ass out. Good . thing I held my tongue long enough to listen.   F Potential partners are indeed few and far between these days, at least here in VMSland.   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 14:20:26 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>& Subject: Re: Not SPAM, but just as bad+ Message-ID: <41698B7A.34885FDA@comcast.net>    Bill Gunshannon wrote: > - > In article <41683EEB.30E3C74F@comcast.net>, > >         David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes: > > Bill Gunshannon wrote: > >>0 > >> In article <416745B6.5F1CF8AC@comcast.net>,A > >>         David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes:  > >> > Bill Gunshannon wrote:  > >> >> C > >> >> I just received a call from a company called IGS who openly C > >> >> admitted farming c.o.v for potential customers "in order to D > >> >> get an advantage over the competition".  I expect others can. > >> >> expect to be bothered by them as well. > >> >N > >> > Technically, we could slap him with Do-Not-Call List violations and put( > >> > him more or less out of business. > >> >M > >> > Then again, perhaps it should serve to prove our case to HP: these are O > >> > the lengths that people must go to to drum up new OpenVMS business since ) > >> > HP will not lift a finger to help.  > >>H > >> He doesn't sell VMS he sells used DEC Hardware, probably at greatly > >> inflated prices.  > >> > >> >N > >> > I let him e-mail me his contact info. since suppliers are getting fewer- > >> > and further between than OpenVMS jobs.  > >>J > >> I don't know about that. It seems that everytime I try to do a googleL > >> search for information on some QBUS or UNIBUS module I get mostly pagesL > >> of used DEC hardware re-sellers, all asking ridiculous prices for stuff# > >> I usually get dumpster-diving.  > > E > > Well, I didn't want to say anything, but now I gotta ask: did the K > > trash-collector test that gear for you? Will they get you a replacement H > > if it arrives DOA? Will they help you integrate the device into your > > situation? > > L > > Not every reseller will do what we might like them to do. However, as isL > > frequently proferred here, you get what you pay for, generally speaking. > F > Or. sometimes not.  I always go back to a time a number of years agoL > when I thought I was going to be forced to get rid of my entire collectionH > of PDP-11's.  I was contacted by a re-seller (who's name I do not evenG > remember)  Who offered to buy my stuff.  Considering what the cost of I > having hauled away as trash was going to be, I gave him a complete iist H > and asked for his quote.  At the time I had; one 11/24, three 11/23's,I > two 11/73's, 8 11/02's (Teraks) and a rather varied collection of disks E > and racks as well as several dozen spare cards of assorted vintage. G > He offered me $100 for all of the modules but would not even consider F > taking the racks or disks (which would have cost the most to trash).E > Among my list of boards were two brand-new, still in the box UNIBUS E > Ethernet cards.  A visit to his web site showed he was asking $1000 E > apiece for just his module.  Luckily, events changed and I was able I > to retain my collection (which has grown considerably since) but I made G > up my mind then and there that if the time came when I had to get rid J > of my equipment, if I could not find a hobbyist to take it I would trashJ > all of it before I would put in the money-grubbing hands of a re-seller.  E Not to be purposely argumentative, I propose that your paradigm might H shift a bit should fortune challenge you to cover your bills by whatever9 means presented itself, within reason and within the law.   I > This is of course, totally beside the original point and doesn't change J > the fact that my name was fished from the news group and used for an un-@ > sollicited commercial phone call which is just as bad as SPAM.  @ Well, I do include a URL in my .sig that leads one to my contactD information. Unlike typical "harvesters", this one actually took theD time to research his prospective partners. So, I give him credit for" being industrious and resourceful.  I > It only makes matters worse that it comes from a brand of business that I > apparently doesn't rank very high above lawyers when it come to ethics.   % That seems a bit harsh to me, FWIW...    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------   Date: 10 Oct 2004 22:22:26 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)& Subject: Re: Not SPAM, but just as bad+ Message-ID: <2str12F1phggkU2@uni-berlin.de>   + In article <41698B7A.34885FDA@comcast.net>, 5 	David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes:  > G > Not to be purposely argumentative, I propose that your paradigm might J > shift a bit should fortune challenge you to cover your bills by whatever; > means presented itself, within reason and within the law.   D I have to do that every day, just like you and everyone else.  But IC think offering $100 for parts your going to sell for 200 times that E amount is a little extreme.  I'm all in favor business, but there are  limits.    > J >> This is of course, totally beside the original point and doesn't changeK >> the fact that my name was fished from the news group and used for an un- A >> sollicited commercial phone call which is just as bad as SPAM.  > B > Well, I do include a URL in my .sig that leads one to my contactF > information. Unlike typical "harvesters", this one actually took theF > time to research his prospective partners. So, I give him credit for$ > being industrious and resourceful. > J >> It only makes matters worse that it comes from a brand of business thatJ >> apparently doesn't rank very high above lawyers when it come to ethics. > ' > That seems a bit harsh to me, FWIW...    A A telemarketer is a telemarketer.  Even the government thinks un- A solicited telemarketing is a bad thing.  That's why they have "do  not call" lists.    G Other people are free to do as they wish.  I do not deal with companies / who use what I consider bad business practices.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 19:31:18 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>& Subject: Re: Not SPAM, but just as bad+ Message-ID: <4169D456.C92E6660@comcast.net>    Bill Gunshannon wrote: > - > In article <41698B7A.34885FDA@comcast.net>, > >         David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes: > > I > > Not to be purposely argumentative, I propose that your paradigm might L > > shift a bit should fortune challenge you to cover your bills by whatever= > > means presented itself, within reason and within the law.  > F > I have to do that every day, just like you and everyone else.  But IE > think offering $100 for parts your going to sell for 200 times that G > amount is a little extreme.  I'm all in favor business, but there are 	 > limits.   < O.k. Let's look at it from the business man's point of view:  7 You "buy" parts for hundreds, low hundreds if possible.   E Now, you have to see what you just bought - you pay (your?) people to H test it and diagnose it, and report on what the parts need, if anything,C to put them into a saleable condition. Somethimes, you veen need to E "recondition" parts (desolder/resolder chips and/or other components,  burnish contact points, etc.).  H Older parts (UNIBUS, etc.) may need parts that are difficult to find and& in short supply (read: high in price).  E So, that "$100" part now has $2,000 or $3,000 "invested" in it ... or ' more, but I'll use that for my example.   H Many folks in many industries - including EDP - feel that 100% markup isF not unreasonable (I disagree, but I digress). So, the "$100" part goesC on sale for $6,200. The reseller gets his investment back, pays his H people's wages, salaries and benefits, pays taxes, outside providers and. other overhead, and still makes a slim profit.  
 Ask yourself:   G In a market like ours (Alphas tend to "live" in the "Enterprise" market H space, but even VAXes and PDPs survive in mission-critical spaces), as aA manager, which parts would you trust to keep your business and/or F customers on-line? The "$200" part (straight from the recycler, and weD gave him his 100% markup), as-is, no warranty ... or the $6,200 partA with a 30 day (or more) warranty where it is obvious that someone  reconditioned it?   H I know what the choice would be in healthcare. I've seen these guys makeE enough choices to be able to guess their next move. Others may choose # differently, for their own reasons.   B Do what you will, of course. My point is simply this: consider the larger picture.   F Greed exists, certainly. The greedy and unscrupulous would indeed takeE in a part for $100, and then turn it over for $10,000 or more without  even dusting it off!  D However, likewise quality assurance exists, and it exists for a veryE good reason (lives may be on the line), despite what we sometimes may  choose to think or believe.    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 18:10:53 GMT ! From: Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com> Y Subject: Re: Obsucure Inquier article about Intel mentions VMS (and not any   other  OS') 8 Message-ID: <7nuim0h643lsmr163nufg9ai80g5bk9dat@4ax.com>  P On Sat, 09 Oct 2004 14:33:45 -0500, David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote:  ? >HP e-mail addresses are typically "firstname.lastname@hp.com".   6 Some of us can be reached with just "firstname@hp.com"   -- Nigel Barker Live from the sunny Cote d'Azur    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 17:25:05 -0400 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> Y Subject: RE: Obsucure Inquier article about Intel mentions VMS (and not any other  OS') o R Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB45D867@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----9 > From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com]=20   > Sent: October 10, 2004 2:45 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ? > Subject: Re: Obsucure Inquier article about Intel mentions=20 3 > VMS (and not any other OS') other OS') other OS')  >=20   [snip..]   >=20? > These days, the CIO reads trade mags on the commuter train=20  > and sees people A > moving to windows or Linux and decides that his company must=20  > be ahead of the : > race and hurry to migrate to this week's trendy product. >=20 >=20 > ITS ALL ABOUT MARKETING. >=20   JF -=20   F While marketing is always important, the "grass is much greener on theE other side" feeling so common  after snorting the magic pixie dust in G many of today's trade rags has been replaced in most companies with the G CFO / CEO telling the CIO "show me a business case where we can realize ; a ROI of less than 18 months or do not even bother trying."   H Companies just do not have the $'s anymore on migrations etc that do notF show real value - and CFO's today have become a lot more hardened than1 the "Gee wiz - cool!" days of a few years ago.=20   G In other words, it is getting a lot harder to blow smoke by CFO's/CEO's  than it was in the past.  H Imho, this is one of the reasons why OpenVMS revenues have been going upA in the last year or two i.e. companies realize that they are much G further ahead to upgrade and better integrate what they have than spend F gazillion's of $'s re-writing 10-15+ years of business logic with only# slim chances of it being a success.    Case in point: May, 20043 http://www.wrq.com/aboutwrq/news/2004/051004pr.html A "Southeastern Freight Lines Teams with WRQ to Web-enable Complex,  OpenVMS-based Applications"    Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  $ "OpenVMS has always had integrity .. Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .."   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 18:17:47 -0400 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> Y Subject: Re: Obsucure Inquier article about Intel mentions VMS (and not any other  OS') o , Message-ID: <AZWdnXOuDciSKPTcRVn-rQ@igs.net>   Main, Kerry wrote: >> -----Original Message----- 7 >> From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com] ! >> Sent: October 10, 2004 2:45 AM  >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com= >> Subject: Re: Obsucure Inquier article about Intel mentions 4 >> VMS (and not any other OS') other OS') other OS') >> > 
 > [snip..] >  >>= >> These days, the CIO reads trade mags on the commuter train  >> and sees people? >> moving to windows or Linux and decides that his company must  >> be ahead of the; >> race and hurry to migrate to this week's trendy product.  >> >> >> ITS ALL ABOUT MARKETING.  >> >  > JF - > H > While marketing is always important, the "grass is much greener on theG > other side" feeling so common  after snorting the magic pixie dust in E > many of today's trade rags has been replaced in most companies withXE > the CFO / CEO telling the CIO "show me a business case where we can&E > realize a ROI of less than 18 months or do not even bother trying."  > F > Companies just do not have the $'s anymore on migrations etc that doG > not show real value - and CFO's today have become a lot more hardeneds5 > than the "Gee wiz - cool!" days of a few years ago.d >g= > In other words, it is getting a lot harder to blow smoke byi& > CFO's/CEO's than it was in the past. >eG > Imho, this is one of the reasons why OpenVMS revenues have been goingnF > up in the last year or two i.e. companies realize that they are muchC > further ahead to upgrade and better integrate what they have thanuD > spend gazillion's of $'s re-writing 10-15+ years of business logic/ > with only slim chances of it being a success.n >M > Case in point: May, 20045 > http://www.wrq.com/aboutwrq/news/2004/051004pr.html C > "Southeastern Freight Lines Teams with WRQ to Web-enable Complex,m > OpenVMS-based Applications"      Kerry,  A Unfortunately this only encompasses a subset of *current* OpenVMS I customers - those who already hold the attitude that OpenVMS clearly *is*oI superior for their business needs and who currently have an investment inp OpenVMS.  D By your own reckoning (above), those companies which are consideringI migrating to other platforms (irrespective of the current and migrated-tohL platforms) are loking at the numbers in a more hard-nosed manner these days.G Yet many companies are biting the bullet and migrating for Platorm A toa: Platform B, from operating system X to operating system Y.  H Trouble is that HP is doing nothing to encourage companies to migrate to OpenVMS.   Given:5 1) HP does not do VMS advertising except by accident. L 2) HP studiously ignores every opportunity to give VMS even lip-service when it costs nothing to do so.J 3) HP can't expect the VAR's (Island, et al) of the world to bear the cost# of advertising Alpha and VMS alone.a6 4) ISV's for the most part ignore VMS because HP does.   Result:BG VMS is still considered to be a has-been legacy solution for fossilizednK techno-weenies and 3rd-rate companies who aren't with the program. It's not-F true but that's what the widely held *perception* is, and for the vast; majority in any field of endeavor -- perception is reality.   G VMS is clearly a BMW solution at BMW prices. That in itself isn't a bad2I thing (though lower prices would help too), but if nobody relative to thekE number of businesses that could use a BMW solution knows that the BMW L solution even exists, then you've missed out on a huge number of low-hangingH fruit opportunites with companies that are willing to listen to what youJ have to say. Trouble is HP leads with Wintel and Linux in 1000 or 10,000:1 ratio vs. VMS.  K How many 30'something CTO's even know what VMS is? How many of their systems architects or programmers?  H You aren't directly to blame for this and I know you'd like to keep yourK job, but just how many times have you and your colleagues written carly(tm)d* or curly or GQ Bob about this in the past?   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 22:07:05 -0400c' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com>iY Subject: RE: Obsucure Inquier article about Intel mentions VMS (and not any other  OS') oaR Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB45D86D@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message------ > From: John Smith [mailto:a@nonymous.com]=20S  > Sent: October 10, 2004 6:18 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ? > Subject: Re: Obsucure Inquier article about Intel mentions=20a3 > VMS (and not any other OS') other OS') other OS')0 >=20  	 [snip...]1  @ > How many 30'something CTO's even know what VMS is? How many=20 > of their system) > architects or programmers?  C After the .crash era, there are likely very few CTO's left in their F 30's. Those folks are more likely back in the trenches doing mid level
 mgmt jobs.  H Hey, I am not saying marketing could not be improved - on all HP systemsF for that matter. However, I know of two major Customers that wanted toG convert OpenVMS applications and both went down in flames big time. Oneh was Windows, other was UNIX.  H Now, I am also not saying it can not be done - just that talking to someH people is like talking to teenagers. No matter how much you try and warnG them of something, they still feel they know better than you. No mattercD what info you put in front of them, they still feel they know better	 than you.r   >=20@ > You aren't directly to blame for this and I know you'd like=20 > to keep your> > job, but just how many times have you and your colleagues=20 > written carly(tm) , > or curly or GQ Bob about this in the past? >=20  G Actually, I work with UNIX, Windows as well as OpenVMS. You're value to F any corporation goes up exponentially if you know more than one OS.=20  ; I think that's why Andrew hangs out here in c.o.v. so much.o   :-)o    
 Kerry Main Senior Consultantn HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477t kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  $ "OpenVMS has always had integrity .. Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .."   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Oct 2004 21:52:17 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) Y Subject: RE: Obsucure Inquier article about Intel mentions VMS (and not any other  OS') o/3 Message-ID: <AWm3D3lzapOO@eisner.encompasserve.org>f  | In article <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB45D86D@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>, "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> writes:  H > for that matter. However, I know of two major Customers that wanted toE > convert OpenVMS applications and both went down in flames big time.r  ) The Customers or the conversion efforts ?e   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 00:59:57 -0400-' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com>1Y Subject: RE: Obsucure Inquier article about Intel mentions VMS (and not any other  OS') o:R Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB45D86E@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----9 > From: Larry Kilgallen [mailto:Kilgallen@SpamCop.net]=20s! > Sent: October 10, 2004 10:52 PM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comr? > Subject: RE: Obsucure Inquier article about Intel mentions=20a3 > VMS (and not any other OS') other OS') other OS')h >=20 > In article=20 @ > <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB45D86D@tayexc19.americas.cpqc5 > orp.net>, "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> writes:k >=20> > > for that matter. However, I know of two major Customers=20 > that wanted toG > > convert OpenVMS applications and both went down in flames big time.o >=20+ > The Customers or the conversion efforts ?t >=20    G Well, I am sure there was a lot of heat when these projects failed, but G these are big Customers and you will not hear about these in the press.   D In one case currently taking place, a $75M 3 year project has reallyG nothing to show for all its efforts. Best performance result they couldt7 get was 15-20 times slower than their current platform.h  H Members of this project are doning the life jackets and jumping ship.=20  D Course, two years ago, you could not tell them they did not have the> basics for a large project to be successful. They knew better.  6 Ah well, another notch for the voice of experience.=20   :-)w  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultantg HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477t kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  $ "OpenVMS has always had integrity .. Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .."   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 14:29:07 -0500.2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>? Subject: Re: OpenVMS and Synergex Positions Baltimore/Wash/PhilY+ Message-ID: <41698D83.EBDE0E08@comcast.net>    Hal Kuff wrote:h > - > In article <41683FA3.EF94C9AF@comcast.net>,n6 >  David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote: > B > Well Bob And David, thanxs for the replies.... in answer to your6 > comments, if you understand what a web service (SOA)  H Can you define "SOA"? I only recognize that from a DNS zone defintion as "Start Of Authority".R   > is than you knowG > that it is not simply running inside a WRQ web window... BTW: None of@H > those web push forward systems work if you need facile use of function > keys to run...    D That aside, it would, at most, be a testing issue, and access to theF system(s) involved would likely be the same locally or remote (TELNET,D FTP, HTTP, etc. - physical access not required). So, I don't see it.  5 > The programmer positions are collaborative and willaI > require half day workshops on site to learn the code for a few weeks...   1 ...and after that, would tele-collaboration work?r  H > The instance owner system manager position is not a tape jockey, it isE > collaborative with the programmers as it is lots of production codef > authoring in DCL...s  F Hhmmm... still sounds like what I do via VPN when I'm home sick, up inF the middle of the night or whatever, frequently even on vacation days.  C Dunno, man - still doesn't sound like a "knockout factor" to me. IslF there some other mitigating factor that precludes telecommute? Lack of: VPN support? Lack of conference call capability? ...other?   -- , David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/t   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 15:58:26 -0400i' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com>t? Subject: RE: OpenVMS and Synergex Positions Baltimore/Wash/Phil R Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB45D864@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----> > From: David J Dachtera [mailto:djesys.nospam@comcast.net]=20  > Sent: October 10, 2004 3:29 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComyA > Subject: Re: OpenVMS and Synergex Positions Baltimore/Wash/Phile >=20 > Hal Kuff wrote:t > >=20/ > > In article <41683FA3.EF94C9AF@comcast.net>,i8 > >  David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote: > >=20D > > Well Bob And David, thanxs for the replies.... in answer to your8 > > comments, if you understand what a web service (SOA) >=20@ > Can you define "SOA"? I only recognize that from a DNS zone=20 > defintion as > "Start Of Authority".l >=20  	 David,=20c  F Think of SOA (Service Oriented Architecture) as a standard way (agreedB to by all the major players in the Industry) for a program to call2 subroutines from any platform over the network.=20  F Rather than "rewrite all of the business logic we have invested in forD the last 10-15+ years", many Customers are using SOA to "protect ourG investments and integrate OpenVMS" with web services based applicationsl on other platforms.g  E You do this by exposing sub functions of the business logic in such acG way that Cobol code on OpenVMS can be called by a .Net application on auE Windows platform or J2EE application running on Linux or Solaris etc.t  ? However, as Hal correctly pointed out, there are some technical H challenges in exposing application code on ANY platform to web services.   A few articles:s< http://news.com.com/2100-7345_3-5182950.html?tag=3Dnefd_lede  J http://www.computerworld.com.au/index.php?secid=3D611908207&id=3D15813874= 43   BEA SOA Resource Center J http://www.bea.com/framework.jsp?CNT=3Dindex.htm&FP=3D/content/solutions/= soac /=20   Regardsn  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultantu HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477> kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  $ "OpenVMS has always had integrity .. Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .."   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Oct 2004 13:34:35 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)? Subject: Re: OpenVMS and Synergex Positions Baltimore/Wash/Philb= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0410101234.507f9779@posting.google.com>c  e Hal Kuff <kuff@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<kuff-D4DDFB.07244610102004@library.airnews.net>...'- > In article <41683FA3.EF94C9AF@comcast.net>, 6 >  David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote: >  > C > Well Bob And David, thanxs for the replies.... in answer to your sH > comments, if you understand what a web service (SOA) is than you know H > that it is not simply running inside a WRQ web window... BTW: None of I > those web push forward systems work if you need facile use of function . > keys to run...      ? synergex has a number of ways to mesh web services with dbl ...l@ here is one example ... you don't need to scrap your dbl and dcl- inventment just because you need the web ...    3 http://www.synergex.com/oll_files/synergex-2658.asp    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 19:40:13 -0500>2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>? Subject: Re: OpenVMS and Synergex Positions Baltimore/Wash/Phil + Message-ID: <4169D66C.E6D8640D@comcast.net>s   "Main, Kerry" wrote: >  > > -----Original Message-----= > > From: David J Dachtera [mailto:djesys.nospam@comcast.net])" > > Sent: October 10, 2004 3:29 PM > > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com.C > > Subject: Re: OpenVMS and Synergex Positions Baltimore/Wash/Phile > >u > > Hal Kuff wrote:V > > >l1 > > > In article <41683FA3.EF94C9AF@comcast.net>,r: > > >  David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote: > > >,F > > > Well Bob And David, thanxs for the replies.... in answer to your: > > > comments, if you understand what a web service (SOA) > >o? > > Can you define "SOA"? I only recognize that from a DNS zonen > > defintion as > > "Start Of Authority".t > >o >  > David, > H > Think of SOA (Service Oriented Architecture) as a standard way (agreedD > to by all the major players in the Industry) for a program to call1 > subroutines from any platform over the network.o > H > Rather than "rewrite all of the business logic we have invested in forF > the last 10-15+ years", many Customers are using SOA to "protect ourI > investments and integrate OpenVMS" with web services based applicationsr > on other platforms.  > G > You do this by exposing sub functions of the business logic in such a-I > way that Cobol code on OpenVMS can be called by a .Net application on abG > Windows platform or J2EE application running on Linux or Solaris etc.v > A > However, as Hal correctly pointed out, there are some technicalcJ > challenges in exposing application code on ANY platform to web services. >  > A few articles:o< > http://news.com.com/2100-7345_3-5182950.html?tag=nefd_lede > I > http://www.computerworld.com.au/index.php?secid=611908207&id=1581387443e >  > BEA SOA Resource Center-K > http://www.bea.com/framework.jsp?CNT=index.htm&FP=/content/solutions/soa/"  F Well, o.k., but I'm still not seeing any "knockout factors" that would preclude tele-collaboration.   -- - David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:." http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/t   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 01:42:17 -0400f' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com>u@ Subject: RE: relation between BG buffersize and TCP packetsize ?R Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB45D870@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----< > From: Dave Weatherall [mailto:djw-nothere@nospam.nohow]=20  > Sent: October 10, 2004 1:46 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComsB > Subject: Re: relation between BG buffersize and TCP packetsize ? >=20< > On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 05:19:09 UTC, "John Gemignani, Jr."=20* > <john@nfw-invalid.cibtrikker.com> wrote: >=20 > >=20= > > By default, TCP delays transmissions (there is a 200ms=20t > timer that BGDRIVER=20? > > receives regularly) and transmission occurs at that time=20  > (there are ways to=20IA > > defeat that, like with larger writes and socket options). =20d > What you are=20w? > > looking for is the send and receive window sizes and the=20t > send and receive=20 @ > > buffer quotas.  These are all documented.  I believe that=20 > by default the=20e  > > buffer quotas are around 9K. >=20E > Thanks fro the insight John. I applied the NODELAY option to the=20dG > socket used in our simulation system and appear to have got pseudo=20 1 > real-time up from a fifth to about a third. =20s >=20 > --=20r > Cheers - Dave. >=20   Dave,e  > Something to keep handy when troubleshooting network problems:  B "HP TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Tuning and Troubleshooting - V5.4"H http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/732final/documentation/pdf/aa-rn1vb-te.pdf   Regards-  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660a Fax: 613-591-4477a kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  $ "OpenVMS has always had integrity .. Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .."   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 16:17:03 -0400c* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> Subject: Sayonara storage>= Message-ID: <FbednRkk95z5BfTcRVn-gg@metrocastcablevision.com>e  G Keith is usually pretty good at keeping c.o.v. informed about HP in thew. press, but he just might have missed this one:  ) http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=18991a  J I seem to remember having commented on what appeared to be the dismantlingB of HP's storage efforts a while ago, but now it seems to have been! recognized by the world at large.r   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 22:59:41 +0200  From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> Subject: Re: Sayonara storagea2 Message-ID: <ckc7s2$4iq$1@news6.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>  M I will be at the HP/Interex Dutch World meeting the next 3 days, and storage aQ will be one of my interests. I will take the article with me, see what HP has to h say.   Bill Todd wrote:I > Keith is usually pretty good at keeping c.o.v. informed about HP in thec0 > press, but he just might have missed this one: > + > http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=18991s > L > I seem to remember having commented on what appeared to be the dismantlingD > of HP's storage efforts a while ago, but now it seems to have been# > recognized by the world at large.  >  > - bill >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 17:48:10 -0400t- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  Subject: Re: Sayonara storages+ Message-ID: <4169AE19.52EF6E5@teksavvy.com>o   Bill Todd wrote:+ > http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=18991s > L > I seem to remember having commented on what appeared to be the dismantlingD > of HP's storage efforts a while ago, but now it seems to have been# > recognized by the world at large.o  I Reading that article makes one wonder if it is really possible that it isoL true. But then, there are plenty of precedents about silly decisions made by HP/compaq/digital before.   L Remember that in the Digital world (Palmer, Curly, Carly), they often statedJ that you only focus on products where you can be #1. (or something akin toI that). Would this be a case of Carly realising ther he products aren't so  great and just give up on it ?  M BTW, whatever happened to the Digital storage products ? Were they completely/! canned when HP took Compaq over ?p   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 00:00:37 +0200- From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> Subject: Re: Sayonara storage 2 Message-ID: <ckcbed$9vn$1@news6.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>   JF Mezei wrote:  > Bill Todd wrote: > + >>http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=18991o >>L >>I seem to remember having commented on what appeared to be the dismantlingD >>of HP's storage efforts a while ago, but now it seems to have been# >>recognized by the world at large.C >  > K > Reading that article makes one wonder if it is really possible that it is N > true. But then, there are plenty of precedents about silly decisions made by > HP/compaq/digital before.l > N > Remember that in the Digital world (Palmer, Curly, Carly), they often statedL > that you only focus on products where you can be #1. (or something akin toK > that). Would this be a case of Carly realising ther he products aren't soi  > great and just give up on it ? > O > BTW, whatever happened to the Digital storage products ? Were they completely # > canned when HP took Compaq over ?   Q No, the EVA is a Digital Storage product if you like. It is the successor of the  N HSG80. It is a rather unique product when you look at the way it spreads data < over groups of disks instead of over conventional raid sets.  O The XP cabinets are just rebadged Hitachi products, en if I compare those with l? the EMC DMX series, I know what to buy: EMC, no doubt about it.o  P The Digital Storageworks products were famous for their quality, and the EVA is  a very good product as well.  N So for me the situation is very simple: bye bye EVA = bye bye HP storage. And O I'm just in the process of trying to get a project with two big ES80's and two gQ EVA5000's of the ground. Thanks HP, you always know how to betray your customers.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 23:08:51 +0100 < From: "Alex Daniels" <AlexNOSPAMTHANKSDaniels@themail.co.uk> Subject: Re: Sayonara storage 6 Message-ID: <4169b303$0$22746$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>  ; "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message w% news:4169AE19.52EF6E5@teksavvy.com...  <SNIP>E > BTW, whatever happened to the Digital storage products ? Were they n > completely# > canned when HP took Compaq over ?y  J Where do you think the EVA came from?? The controllers in them are called M HSV's, and it was in development long before hp took over. The only argument  G you could have is the DRM/CA stuff that EMC filed a court case against.p  H Its a red DEC/Compaq product not a blue hp product, they had (and still G have) the rebadged XP array (which BTW doesn't support REAL/WRITEL and n, therefore forced error bit, unlike the EVA).   Alex c   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 18:22:32 -0400 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>e Subject: Re: Sayonara storagev, Message-ID: <adidnRk1stCxK_TcRVn-qw@igs.net>   Bill Todd wrote:E > Keith is usually pretty good at keeping c.o.v. informed about HP in 4 > the press, but he just might have missed this one: >o+ > http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=18991  > @ > I seem to remember having commented on what appeared to be theF > dismantling of HP's storage efforts a while ago, but now it seems to- > have been recognized by the world at large.d    I The Inquirer article alludes to a 'magic bullet'. The only magic bullet IeJ can think of is the one in the loaded .45 on the CEO's desk. To paraphrase4 to old Navy saying  - "For the good of the company".   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 18:26:06 -0400 * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> Subject: Re: Sayonara storageh= Message-ID: <jsydndqjOqk4K_TcRVn-tA@metrocastcablevision.com>a  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message% news:4169AE19.52EF6E5@teksavvy.com...    ...S  D > BTW, whatever happened to the Digital storage products ? Were they
 completely# > canned when HP took Compaq over ?o  H As has been noted, EVA was developed by DEC storage people (partly underG Compaq, of course).  But HP seems to have pretty well dissolved its owntJ (pre-merger) storage efforts:  its AutoRAID product, for example, embodiedJ some interesting concepts for lower-level storage management (it automatedH migration between mirrored and RAID-5 storage based on activity, and may. also have virtualized the underlying mapping).  H HP's storage group under John Wilkes got heavily trashed 3 - 4 years agoL (but still during Carly's tenure), and they now seem to be doing the same toL DECpaq's (actually, already to have done so, over the past couple of years).   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 16:47:08 -0600.+ From: John Nebel <john.nebel_vms@csdco.com>. Subject: Re: Sayonara storagey( Message-ID: <4169BBEC.5030704@csdco.com>   Dirk Munk wrote:   > JF Mezei wrote:t >  >> Bill Todd wrote:  >>- >>> http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=18991  >>>bC >>> I seem to remember having commented on what appeared to be the t >>> dismantlingeF >>> of HP's storage efforts a while ago, but now it seems to have been% >>> recognized by the world at large.l >> >> >>L >> Reading that article makes one wonder if it is really possible that it isH >> true. But then, there are plenty of precedents about silly decisions 
 >> made by >> HP/compaq/digital before. >>I >> Remember that in the Digital world (Palmer, Curly, Carly), they often i	 >> statedlF >> that you only focus on products where you can be #1. (or something 
 >> akin toL >> that). Would this be a case of Carly realising ther he products aren't so! >> great and just give up on it ?h >>F >> BTW, whatever happened to the Digital storage products ? Were they 
 >> completely $ >> canned when HP took Compaq over ? >  > B > No, the EVA is a Digital Storage product if you like. It is the I > successor of the HSG80. It is a rather unique product when you look at  ? > the way it spreads data over groups of disks instead of over e > conventional raid sets.e > F > The XP cabinets are just rebadged Hitachi products, en if I compare L > those with the EMC DMX series, I know what to buy: EMC, no doubt about it. > K > The Digital Storageworks products were famous for their quality, and the  % > EVA is a very good product as well.  > C > So for me the situation is very simple: bye bye EVA = bye bye HP sK > storage. And I'm just in the process of trying to get a project with two #I > big ES80's and two EVA5000's of the ground. Thanks HP, you always know u > how to betray your customers.r  8 Well, I've got two EVA 5000's and just bought a GS 1280.  - Can't say this news, if true, makes me happy.5  
 John Nebel   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 19:53:27 -0500o2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> Subject: Re: Sayonara storage + Message-ID: <4169D987.2B1FC828@comcast.net>o   Dirk Munk wrote: > N > I will be at the HP/Interex Dutch World meeting the next 3 days, and storageR > will be one of my interests. I will take the article with me, see what HP has to > say.  F If they offer to sell you a bridge somewhere in the eastern states, or8 land somewhere in the desert southwest, I'm in for half!   -- i David J Dachtera dba DJE Systemsi http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:s" http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/a   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Oct 2004 17:13:34 -0700# From: dooleys@snowy.net.au (dooley) , Subject: Re: SHOW DEVICE/FILES with FORTRAN?= Message-ID: <1ca82fc6.0410101613.42cb7479@posting.google.com>l  \ David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in message news:<4168D59D.8070807@tsoft-inc.com>... > N > I don't think that locks are involved.  There could be open files for which  > there isn't a lock.t6 If the file is open there is always at least one lock,> rms bucket/record locks are always sub-locks of the file lock. Phil   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 23:00:55 -0400 - From: "heuveltjes" <heuveltjes@email.msn.com>o, Subject: Re: SHOW DEVICE/FILES with FORTRAN?, Message-ID: <4169f879$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  0 "dooley" <dooleys@snowy.net.au> wrote in message7 news:1ca82fc6.0410101613.42cb7479@posting.google.com... 5 > David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in messagev( news:<4168D59D.8070807@tsoft-inc.com>... > > I > > I don't think that locks are involved.  There could be open files forr whichd > > there isn't a lock.u8 > If the file is open there is always at least one lock,@ > rms bucket/record locks are always sub-locks of the file lock. > Phil  L Most interesting file opens are done by RMS, and indeed you could use GETLKIH to (in exec mode) to find a list of open files. I'll include a C programI (hack) that does just that. Should be easy enough to translate to Fortranr :-).  5 SHOW FILE/DEV walks kernel structures and has no API.o= Best I can see you'll have to spawn it and parse it's output.o   Hein.e   $ typ FILELOCK_SHOW.Ce   #define MAXDEVICE  200 #define MAXDEVNAMLEN  64 #define MAXDEVLOCKNAM 13 #define MAXFILNAMLEN 80t #define MAXPID 16r /*4 ** FILELOCK_SHOW.C Hein van den Heuvel, HP, Oct 2004? ** Based on BLOCKING.C, Hein van den Heuvel, Digital, July 1995l **F **   List all rms file locks or for a specified PID or for a sepcified device.  **   Have fun, **      Hein van den Heuvel  */   #include <prvdef>  #include <lkidef>H #include <lckdef>e #include <descrip> #include <string>  #include <ctype> #include <stdio> #include <ssdef> #include <rms> #define terminator 0,0,0,0
 #define EFN 1   H static char devnam[MAXDEVICE][MAXDEVNAMLEN];        /* counted string */5 static char devlocknames[MAXDEVICE][MAXDEVLOCKNAM+1];s static int  device_count = 0;   I typedef struct { short len, cod; void *address; unsigned short *retlen; }2 item;39 typedef struct { unsigned int len; void *address; } desc;r  @ int     sys$getlkiw(), sys$getjpi(), sys$setprv(), sys$cmexec(),I         sys$device_scan(), sys$getdvi(), lib$fid_to_name(), str$upcase(), 9         sys$open(), sys$connect(), sys$get(), sys$read();-> int     make_device_name_list(), print_filename_and_record() ; char    *find_device_name();. int make_device_name_list(), print_filename();   main(int argc, char *argv[]) {t5     int     stat, s, i, l, parent, lock_id, lock_pid;A'     int     wildcard=0, pid=0, locks=0;      unsigned short retlen=0;$     struct lkidef lkibuf[100], *lki;B     struct { unsigned all : 16, one : 15, too_small : 1 ;} lkilen;8     int     privs[] = { PRV$M_WORLD | PRV$M_CMEXEC , 0};      void    *search_devnam=NULL;     desc    search_devnam_desc;)  J #pragma nostandard /* Using address of variable where constant is standard */  F     struct  {   int     rms; unsigned short fid_num, fid_seq, fid_rvn;1                 char    devlocknam[22] ;} resnam;   <     item    getlki_items[] = { 4, LKI$_LOCKID,  &lock_id, 0,=                                4, LKI$_PID,     &lock_pid, 0,hA                               31, LKI$_RESNAM,  &resnam, &retlen,e;                                4, LKI$_PARENT,  &parent, 0,i+                                terminator};e
     int help,o5       getlki_args[] = {7, EFN, (int) &wildcard, (int)  &getlki_items,terminator};   #pragma standard       /*K     ** First get some temporary privs for the GETLKI in EXEC mode later on.e     */(     stat = sys$setprv ( 1, privs, 0, 0);/     if (stat != SS$_NORMAL) return (stat & -2);e    
     help = 1;        if (argc > 1) {o       int option;2       option = *(int *)argv[1];n       if (option == 'all') {         help=0;h         if (argc > 2) {            /*J           ** second argument, if present, specifies wildcarded device nameJ           ** to look for. For lock on matching devices, the RMS files name<           ** and locked record is attempted to be displayed.           */3           search_devnam_desc.len = strlen(argv[2]);a8           search_devnam_desc.address = (void *) argv[2];.           search_devnam = &search_devnam_desc;@           str$upcase (&search_devnam_desc, &search_devnam_desc);D           printf (" Looking for rms file locks on %s\n\n", argv[2]);           } else {9           printf (" Looking for ALL rms file locks\n\n");r           } /* arcg > 2 */         } /* all */          if (option == 'pid') {  
         /*5         ** third argument, specifies PID to look for.-
         */         if (argc > 2) { '           sscanf (argv[2], "%x", &pid);m           if (pid > MAXPID) {eH             printf (" Looking for RMS file locks for PID %8X\n\n", pid);             help=0;n
             }            } /* argc > 2 */         } /* pid */          } /* argc > 1 */       if (help) {eJ       printf ("Usage %s [pid|all] [<pid>|<wildcarded-device]\n", argv[0]);L       printf ("  pid - Display RMS file locks for all or specified pid.\n");7       printf ("  all - Display all RMS file locks.\n");iA printf ("The search_devnam argument accepts the standard wildcarde characters,\n");H printf ("the asterisk (*), which matches any sequence of characters, and the\n");I printf ("percent sign(%), which matches any one character. An exact match  is\n");>I printf ("used for comparison. For example, to match all unit 0 DU devices  on\n");,F printf ("any controller, specify *DU%0. This string is compared to the	 most\n"); 4 printf ("complete device name (DVI$_ALLDEVNAM).\n");         return 1;i       }m  . (void)   make_device_name_list(search_devnam);       /*'     ** Main loop. Get a lock, any lock. D     ** Find out wether it is held by specified process, and waiting.     */3     stat = sys$cmexec (&sys$getlkiw, &getlki_args);      while (stat & 1) {         int x;3         x = (pid < MAXPID) ? 1 : (lock_pid == pid);            locks++;;         if ( (resnam.rms == 'RMS$') && (parent==0) && x ) {d               /*!             ** Have RMS file locke             */=             print_filename ( lock_pid, &resnam.devlocknam[0],o &resnam.fid_num);a#             }         /* PID   ? */ 7         stat = sys$cmexec (&sys$getlkiw, &getlki_args);          } /* while stat ? */2     if (stat == SS$_NOMORELOCK) stat = SS$_NORMAL;1     printf (" Done. Scanned %d locks.\n", locks);b     return stat; }     I int print_filename ( int pid, char *devlocknam, unsigned short (*fid)[3])m { #     int  device_number, stat, i, l;i     char buf[512];$ static  char filnam[MAXFILNAMLEN+1];0     desc devnam_desc, filnam_desc = {0, filnam};       for (device_number=0;pC          strcmp ((char *) devlocknames[device_number], devlocknam);cF          device_number++) if (device_number == device_count) return 0;  /     devnam_desc.len = devnam[device_number][0]; 4     devnam_desc.address = &devnam[device_number][1];#     filnam_desc.len = MAXFILNAMLEN;oJ     stat = lib$fid_to_name(&devnam_desc, fid, &filnam_desc, &filnam_desc);      filnam[filnam_desc.len] = 0;E     printf ( "%08X %s %s\n", pid, &devnam[device_number][1], filnam);a     return stat; }e  . int make_device_name_list(desc *search_devnam)     {    #include <dvidef>o #include <dcdef>A /* #include <dvsdef> does not exist, hand coded defines follow */s #define DVS$_DEVCLASS 1  #define DVS$_DEVTYPE  2e #define SS$_NOMOREDEV 2648  8     int i, stat, context[] = {0,0}, devclass = DC$_DISK;     unsigned short int retlen;     desc devnam_desc;a@     item getdvi_items[] = { MAXDEVLOCKNAM, DVI$_DEVLOCKNAM,0, 0, terminator};J     item device_items[] = { 4, DVS$_DEVCLASS,   &devclass, 0, terminator};     /*D     ** Build two arrays with DISK device names and their lock names.     */#     for (i=0;  i<MAXDEVICE;  i++) {t)         devnam_desc.len = MAXDEVNAMLEN-1; ,         devnam_desc.address = &devnam[i][1];;         stat = sys$device_scan (&devnam_desc, &devnam_desc,t2             search_devnam, device_items, context);%         devnam[i][0]=devnam_desc.len;          if (stat & 1) { C             devnam[i][devnam_desc.len+1]=0;    /* Null terminate */h6             getdvi_items[0].address = devlocknames[i];-             getdvi_items[0].retlen = &retlen;s  F             stat = sys$getdvi (0,0,&devnam_desc,getdvi_items,0,0,0,0);0             if (stat != SS$_NORMAL) return stat;(             devlocknames[i][retlen] = 0;	         }          else {(             if (stat == SS$_NOMOREDEV) {!                 device_count = i;r                 i = MAXDEVICE;
             }o             break;	         }a     }s     return stat; }l   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 20:25:22 -0400-- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>c( Subject: Small problem with UNZIP on VMS, Message-ID: <4169D2E7.C7B9F8E3@teksavvy.com>  N The UNZIP that was supplied with VMS VAX 7.2 (along with other versions) has a samll issue.  J If the .zip archive contains a very invalid file name (for instance a very long file name such as S  S chocolate.txt______________________________________________________________________S (2 lines worth of _______ .exe  M Then the unzip utility doesn't have the ability to fix the file name and justSM stops with a warning message. It should prompt for a file name in such cases.h  ) I did manage to extract the contents with   5 PIPE UNZIP/PIPE archive.zip | copy sys$input temp.dat   L However, that loses any file attributes that might have helped find out what this file was all about.  J With the proliferation of microsoft viri, VMS is a good platform to safelyK manipulate those payloads, but it needs tools capable of handling purposelyt bad file names.r   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 20:17:20 -0500d2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>, Subject: Re: Small problem with UNZIP on VMS+ Message-ID: <4169DF20.3C34F63C@comcast.net>r   JF Mezei wrote:n > P > The UNZIP that was supplied with VMS VAX 7.2 (along with other versions) has a > samll issue. > L > If the .zip archive contains a very invalid file name (for instance a very > long file name such as > U > chocolate.txt______________________________________________________________________r  > (2 lines worth of _______ .exe  H Just a nit, but the sizes of both the name and extension under ODS-2 areG much less than "2 lines worth of underscores". Not sure about ODS-5 (dooG I still know how to access the testdrive machines at hp?). So, there isyF no "legal" way to resolve that, short of making a brash assumption or, as you say, prompting the user.a  H This raises the question: How was the file created prior to being ZIPed?  F Obviously not on VMS, thus the attributes are irrelevant. DUMP is yourG friend there. That should help you determine whether it is binary or or ! should be Stream, Stream_LF, etc.m   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systemss http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:'" http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/t   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 20:48:36 +0200 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>h Subject: Some RDB news, FWIW...p' Message-ID: <41698404.CABC08C4@aaa.com>i  ( "An Oracle Rdb-centric VMS TUD Tidbit" :  A http://www.shannonknowshpc.com/stories.php?story=04/10/10/19368254   Enjoy.	 Jan-Erik.m   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 14:30:20 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>  Subject: Re: Sun Java and Kodak.+ Message-ID: <41698DCC.4FBDC81E@comcast.net>.   John Vottero wrote:  > A > "David J Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote in messages' > news:41683FDE.19D35B8B@comcast.net...o  > > prep@prep.synonet.com wrote: > >>? > >> So Sun has folded on Java and payed off the yellow bird int6 > >> exchange for THEM to use the `Java' patents. but. > >>4 > >> What is the score for others who run Java apps? > >>G > >> What is the score for those who do their own Java implementations?  > >>G > >> Will be now have to pay a Kodak tax for the joy of `run anywhere'?  > >vB > > T'would be truly sweet if Kodak prevailed against Micro$lop... > >  > L > I believe that Microsoft, HP and IBM have already licensed the technology.  D From Kodak? (Remember: Kodak prevailed against Sun, not vice-versa.)   -- i David J Dachtera dba DJE Systemss http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:e" http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/h   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 21:44:54 GMTk  From: CJT <abujlehc@prodigy.net>  Subject: Re: Sun Java and Kodak.* Message-ID: <4169AD56.3070209@prodigy.net>   David J Dachtera wrote:u > John Vottero wrote:  > A >>"David J Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote in message ' >>news:41683FDE.19D35B8B@comcast.net...a >> >>>prep@prep.synonet.com wrote:1 >>>t> >>>>So Sun has folded on Java and payed off the yellow bird in5 >>>>exchange for THEM to use the `Java' patents. but.V >>>>3 >>>>What is the score for others who run Java apps?c >>>>F >>>>What is the score for those who do their own Java implementations? >>>>F >>>>Will be now have to pay a Kodak tax for the joy of `run anywhere'? >>>8A >>>T'would be truly sweet if Kodak prevailed against Micro$lop...8 >>>E >>L >>I believe that Microsoft, HP and IBM have already licensed the technology. >  > F > From Kodak? (Remember: Kodak prevailed against Sun, not vice-versa.) > @ I think that overstates it.  They settled.  On appeal, Sun mightD ultimately have prevailed -- that leaves the question open somewhat.   --  D The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt toC minimize spam.  Our true address is of the form che...@prodigy.net.n   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 23:34:02 GMTt% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>o  Subject: Re: Sun Java and Kodak.< Message-ID: <KFjad.8478$Rf1.3621@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com>  @ "David J Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote in message % news:41698DCC.4FBDC81E@comcast.net...a > John Vottero wrote:r >>B >> "David J Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote in message( >> news:41683FDE.19D35B8B@comcast.net...! >> > prep@prep.synonet.com wrote:i >> >> @ >> >> So Sun has folded on Java and payed off the yellow bird in7 >> >> exchange for THEM to use the `Java' patents. but.  >> >>.5 >> >> What is the score for others who run Java apps?, >> >> H >> >> What is the score for those who do their own Java implementations? >> >>mH >> >> Will be now have to pay a Kodak tax for the joy of `run anywhere'? >> >C >> > T'would be truly sweet if Kodak prevailed against Micro$lop...c >> > >>B >> I believe that Microsoft, HP and IBM have already licensed the  >> technology. >wF > From Kodak? (Remember: Kodak prevailed against Sun, not vice-versa.)   Yes, from Kodak.  See:  ) http://www.linuxworld.com/story/46702.htmp   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Oct 2004 13:20:18 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen),9 Subject: Re: SYS$PARSE: prevented translation of logicalsr3 Message-ID: <$ngps5XSDfuu@eisner.encompasserve.org>7  \ In article <416936EA.5B0F6D30@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > @ > I would like to have SYS$PARSE of a file specification such as] > SYS$LIBRARY:MYFILE.TLB keep the SYS$LIBRARY instead of expanding it to SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSLIB]  > K > I have tried settin the NOCONCEAL  NAM block option to 0, but it seems to<N > conceal only logicals that are defined as devices (terminal, concealed), but5 > logicals such as SYS$LIBRARY: still get translated.t  A On the system where I just tested, SYS$LIBRARY is not a concealedt
 logical name.(   $ show logical/full sys$library C    "SYS$LIBRARY" [exec] = "SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSLIB]" (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE) & $ write sys$output f$getsyi("version") V5.3-1   $   I I don't think the behavior has anything to do with whether it points to ay device.e  X > I want $parse to convert it to SYS$LIBRARY:*.TLB  instead of SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSLIB]*.TLB  E The only time I have done something like that is has been with customa postprocessing.   D I suppose you could try creating user-mode concealed logical name to- mask the inner mode unconcealed logical name.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 23:13:28 -0400s- From: "heuveltjes" <heuveltjes@email.msn.com>V9 Subject: Re: SYS$PARSE: prevented translation of logicalso* Message-ID: <4169fb6a@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message& news:416936EA.5B0F6D30@teksavvy.com... >a@ > I would like to have SYS$PARSE of a file specification such asH > SYS$LIBRARY:MYFILE.TLB keep the SYS$LIBRARY instead of expanding it to SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSLIB] >/K > I have tried settin the NOCONCEAL  NAM block option to 0, but it seems totJ > conceal only logicals that are defined as devices (terminal, concealed), but=5 > logicals such as SYS$LIBRARY: still get translated.r >e > Is there a magic trick ? > L > goal: after parsing a file specification, if it involves possible multipleK > matching files (wildcard included, or file name omitted), I then pop up a- fileL > selection dialogue, and I would like the device/directory to appear as the > user had typed them. >RF > So, if the user types in "SYS$LIBRARY:", with a default file spec of "*.TLB"0 > fed to $PARSE. >n> > I want $parse to convert it to SYS$LIBRARY:*.TLB  instead of SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSLIB]*.TLB2  = I think you are looking for NAM$V_SYNCHK (a bit in NAM$B_NOP)cL http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/731FINAL/4523/4523pro_008.html#422_namb_nopfie ld  * Compare with DCL F$PARSE ... "SYNTAX_ONLY"  H When playing around in this space, do not forget to check out the system service: $FILESCAN  J   "Searches a string for a file specification and parses the components of that file specification. "       hth,   Hein.u   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Oct 2004 17:01:31 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)3 Subject: You can't train a genius in four weeks ...a= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0410101601.3ca574a7@posting.google.com>/  6 looks like HP still hasn't figured out unlike IBM that0 if you dump your skilled workers who have proven3 themselves for years with younger ones or outsource@5 them, it is a recipe for disaster ... the inquirer isn2 telling people with eva sans to run for the hills!5 This reflects on how bad the public school system hasO4 become ... the biggest, brightest wonder today which6 is marketed as the greatest thing since the toaster is4 linux, and if that is the next wonder in IT, then we5 are in for big trouble!  It is sad how pathetic linuxi4 is when compared to 25 year old OpenVMS.  If you are4 a frim who is considering getting rid of your older,3 experienced work force, read the fllowing and think 7 again ... and if you have children in the public schoolw5 system and care about them, GET THEM OUT before it isb	 too late!O  ) http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=18991c   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Oct 2004 17:19:03 -0700# From: as@anysyskorea.com (Jeong BG) 4 Subject: [BUFFER_LIMIT of RUN commnad, what is this?= Message-ID: <c6d875ee.0410101619.51974438@posting.google.com>a  , Ower system(VAX) program has below commands.   $ RUN/DETACH/PROC=MCSEC_SERVM -t      /OUT=MCSEC_SERVM.OUT -e      /ENQUE=50000 -s      /BUFFER_LIMIT=32672      MCSEC_SERVM ......  3 Another command do not has /BUFFER_LIMIT quarifier.r5 so, i deleted /BUFFER_LIMIT quarifier above commands.n1 and then system was hang status after 10 minutes.u    what is /BUFFER_LIMIT quarifier?   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 20:12:06 -0500i2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>8 Subject: Re: [BUFFER_LIMIT of RUN commnad, what is this?+ Message-ID: <4169DDE6.F7BA0EC3@comcast.net>    Jeong BG wrote:o > . > Ower system(VAX) program has below commands. > ! > $ RUN/DETACH/PROC=MCSEC_SERVM -w >      /OUT=MCSEC_SERVM.OUT -t >      /ENQUE=50000 -  >      /BUFFER_LIMIT=32672 >      MCSEC_SERVM > ...... > 5 > Another command do not has /BUFFER_LIMIT quarifier.w7 > so, i deleted /BUFFER_LIMIT quarifier above commands.s3 > and then system was hang status after 10 minutes.n > " > what is /BUFFER_LIMIT quarifier?  4 Well, this is from the on-line HELP for RUN Process:   $ help run proc /buf   RUN   	   Processe       /BUFFER_LIMIT              /BUFFER_LIMIT=quota/  A        Specifies the maximum amount of memory, in bytes, that theyC        process can use for buffered I/O operations or for temporaryc        mailbox creation.  D        If you do not specify a buffered I/O quota, the default valueH        established at system generation time is used. The minimum amount9        required for any process to execute is 1024 bytes.a  (        The buffer limit quota is pooled.      -  @ Apparently this relates to the UAF parameter BYTLM or the systemD parameters PQL_DBYTLM and PQL_MBYTLM. The default PQL_MBYTLM is 1024> also, but this may just be a coincidence since the default for  PQL_DBYTLM is 65536 (in V7.2-2).   -- i David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems= http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/I   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.564 ************************> > looking for is the send and receive window sizes and the=20t > send and receive=20 @ > > buffer quotas.  These are all documented.  I believe that=20 > by default the=20e  > > buffer quotas are around 9K. >=20E > Thanks fro the insight John. I applied the NODELAY option to the=20dG > socket used in our simulation system and appear to have got pseudo=20 1 > real-time up from a fifth to a