1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 15 Oct 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 572       Contents: Re: Alpha DS10L problem 5 Re: Another slowaris cert ... VMS continues to shine! 5 Re: Another slowaris cert ... VMS continues to shine!  Re: Command Substitution ??  Re: Command Substitution ??  Re: File counts  Re: File counts  Re: J F on why USA is a regime Re: J F on why USA is a regime Re: J F on why USA is a regime# Re: Latest on Windoze Navy software # Re: Latest on Windoze Navy software # Re: Latest on Windoze Navy software # Re: Latest on Windoze Navy software # Re: Latest on Windoze Navy software # Re: Latest on Windoze Navy software # Re: Latest on Windoze Navy software # Re: Latest on Windoze Navy software # Re: Latest on Windoze Navy software # Re: Latest on Windoze Navy software # Re: Latest on Windoze Navy software # Re: Latest on Windoze Navy software # Re: Latest on Windoze Navy software # Re: Latest on Windoze Navy software # Re: Latest on Windoze Navy software # Re: Latest on Windoze Navy software # Re: Latest on Windoze Navy software # Re: Latest on Windoze Navy software # Re: Latest on Windoze Navy software # Re: Latest on Windoze Navy software # Re: Latest on Windoze Navy software # Re: Latest on Windoze Navy software # Re: Latest on Windoze Navy software # Re: Latest on Windoze Navy software # Re: Latest on Windoze Navy software # Re: Latest on Windoze Navy software # Re: Latest on Windoze Navy software % Re: Logging Serial Connection to File % Re: Logging Serial Connection to File % Re: Logging Serial Connection to File % Re: Logging Serial Connection to File % Re: Logging Serial Connection to File % Re: Logging Serial Connection to File  Re: OpenVMS : New Roadmap  Re: OpenVMS : New Roadmap  Re: OpenVMS : New Roadmap  Re: OpenVMS : New Roadmap A Re: OT Restrictions on use of Pascal?  Was Latest on Windoze Navy A Re: OT Restrictions on use of Pascal?  Was Latest on Windoze Navy A Re: OT Restrictions on use of Pascal?  Was Latest on Windoze Navy A Re: OT Restrictions on use of Pascal?  Was Latest on Windoze Navy A Re: OT Restrictions on use of Pascal?  Was Latest on Windoze Navy P Re: OT Restrictions on use of Pascal?  Was Latest on Windoze Navy software softw Re: OT: IBM Redbooks Re: OT: IBM Redbooks Re: OT: IBM Redbooks Re: OT: IBM Redbooks Re: OT: IBM Redbooks" OT: Re: J F on why USA is a regime/ Re: Program to read a 8000 bytes record file...  Queuename from DCL?  RE: Queuename from DCL?  Re: Queuename from DCL?  Re: Queuename from DCL?  Re: Queuename from DCL?  Re: Queuename from DCL?  Re: Queuename from DCL? > Re: Routine to Resubmit print/batch entries from queue listing" Re: VMS and Perl /Python scripting" Re: VMS and Perl /Python scripting" Re: VMS and Perl /Python scripting" Re: VMS and Perl /Python scripting/ VMS related water bound powerful mammal artwork 3 Re: VMS related water bound powerful mammal artwork 7 VTfm - OpenVMS file manager for VT-compatible terminals   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 12:48:44 +1000 # From: "Gremlin" <not-here@all.mate>   Subject: Re: Alpha DS10L problem- Message-ID: <416f3a90@duster.adelaide.on.net>   K OK, I can take a hint :)  But the motherboard only has one spare IDE plug,  K and the only cable that plugs into it is plugged into the only disk in the  K box, and it is set as master, as the manual indicates.  So, how can I make   it DQA0?  I Sorry, I must be a bit obtuse, but I have never played with IDE on a VAX   before!   7 "William Webb" <webbww@bellsouth.net> wrote in message  . news:Bgybd.192$qH3.4@bignews6.bellsouth.net... > Gremlin wrote: > 
 >> Hi Team >>J >> Just playing with a new DS10L - put in a Seagate Barracuda ATA III IDE M >> disk (20Gb) and installed latest SRM firmware.  I can build VMS on it OK,  G >> but when it eventually reboots, I get the Username prompt and enter  K >> SYSTEM, but that's it!  No password prompt, disk light hard on and lots  G >> of JBC errors relating to accountng.dat and AUDSRV errors saying it  # >> cannot access audit journal etc.  >>G >> After the build I found that the only way I could boot was by doing  J >> b -flags 0,1 dqa1, then exit the SYSBOOT prompt.  Trying a normal boot  >> gets a crash dump.  >>. >> Any thoughts?  Is the IDE disk incompatible > Yes. > Wrong disk setting.  > Needs to be DQA0.  > RTFM( > If you need help, contact me directly. > 	 > WWWebb     ------------------------------    Date: 14 Oct 2004 17:52:02 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) > Subject: Re: Another slowaris cert ... VMS continues to shine!3 Message-ID: <yylG$LReKX9h@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ` In article <X3wbd.33420$Z14.13411@news.indigo.ie>, "Tom Wade" <nospam@picard.eurokom.ie> writes: > 7 > "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message 9 > news:d7791aa1.0410140438.22611a27@posting.google.com...  >> keeping count Andrew? :)  >>, >> http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=19076 > N > You're wasting your time - he'll only claim that OpenVMS never publishes itsL > bugs.  As I said before, Sun claiming its OS is the most secure because itJ > releases the most CERTS is like Texas claiming to be the safest place to2 > live in because they execute the most murderers.  D It is more likely those making such claims _have_ the largest number% of bugs/murderers in the first place.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 20:50:55 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>> Subject: Re: Another slowaris cert ... VMS continues to shine!+ Message-ID: <416F2CFF.A592DCED@comcast.net>    Bob Ceculski wrote:  >  > keeping count Andrew? :) > + > http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=19076    **__M_U_S_T__** you ???!!!   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Oct 2004 12:03:27 -0700/ From: johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com (John Reinhardt) $ Subject: Re: Command Substitution ??= Message-ID: <5d708ac7.0410141103.45d59376@posting.google.com>   a Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com> wrote in message news:<r1jsm0l8od34k7n91q36clq8lpiiopm127@4ax.com>... B > On 14 Oct 2004 02:28:13 -0700, passhan@yahoo.com (Shanks) wrote: >  > >Hi,9 > >    Do we have a way for command substitution in VMS ?  > > D > >My query is : Does VMS have an equivalent for this UNIX command ? > >  > ># test=`date` > >  > >Regards, 
 > >Shankar > L > Yes, symbol assignment. Here are some examples from $ HELP  SYMBOL EXAMPLE >  > $ LIST == "DIRECTORY"  > $ TIME == "SHOW TIME"  > $ QP == "SHOW QUEUE/DEVICE"  > $ SS == "SHOW SYMBOL"   > No. Not in the same manner as Unix.  In Shankar's example, theC variable "test" ends up with the current date/time, NOT as an alias D for the "date" command.  VMS has lexical funtions, some of which canE provide similar operations, but it dones not have the general ability E to insert the output of commands directly into environment variables.   6 What Shankar wants is to be able to do something like:   $ TIME = "'SHOW TIME"  $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT TIME  16-OCT-2004 3:01:24    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 20:47:58 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>$ Subject: Re: Command Substitution ??+ Message-ID: <416F2C4E.62275C8D@comcast.net>   
 Shanks wrote:  >  > Hi, 8 >     Do we have a way for command substitution in VMS ? > C > My query is : Does VMS have an equivalent for this UNIX command ?  >  > # test=`date`    See the URL in the .sig:" http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  3 ...and look at the DCL Programming presentation(s).    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 04:53:49 +0800  From: prep@prep.synonet.com  Subject: Re: File counts- Message-ID: <87ekk1aun6.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   0 bickerdike@sciinc.com (Kevin Bickerdike) writes:  F > Two questions really...is there a quick way to get a file count of a? > disk from the indexf.sys? If not is there a way of getting an & > accurate filecount on a system disk?   If fileID = 0, next header# if an extention header, next header  else increment file count.  @ Note that directories are files and will be in the count. If youD want to exclude them, look for the UC.DIR bit in user charateristics word the header.    " All the definitions are in syslib.   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 20:53:00 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> Subject: Re: File counts+ Message-ID: <416F2D7C.80511F6A@comcast.net>    briggs@encompasserve.org wrote:  > p > In article <9ef6801d.0410140659.527d8deb@posting.google.com>, bickerdike@sciinc.com (Kevin Bickerdike) writes:H > > Two questions really...is there a quick way to get a file count of aJ > > disk from the indexf.sys? If not is there a way of getting an accurate > > filecount on a system disk?  > ( > On the system disk, one approach is to > 9 >   $ DIR [*...] /GRAND /EXCLUDE=[SYS*.SYSCOMMON...]*.*;*  > F > That'll knock out all the aliases for the common directory but leave+ > in the copy that is named [VMS$COMMON...]  > G > On indexf.sys, you could do it.  You'd need code to skip to the first @ > file header, skip the headers at multiples of 256 blocks, skip0 > unused headers and skip the extension headers. > E > And I think there's a really nifty utility that I've never used and G > whose name escapes me at the moment that can do it in two flicks of a 
 > lambs tail.    DFU?   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Oct 2004 22:47:35 -0000  From: Poor J F <poor@crybaby.jf>' Subject: Re: J F on why USA is a regime 7 Message-ID: <7CVSI2T638274.7413773148@anonymous.poster>    J F  M e z e i  wrote:   >Jeff Hacker wrote:  >  >>JF, stay out of our politics.  > M >Then the USA should stay out of other country's politics. As soon as the USa M >startes to interfere with other countries, then oyher countries have a right " >to criticise the USA's policies.  >  > L >> and (2) 50% of the country LIKES the President.  (3) in the U.S. we don't0 >> have a "regime" but rather an administration. > J >The day the USA began its illegal invasion of Iraq, it became a "regime". > M >The day the USA began to torture prisoners (both from afghanistan and Iraq),  >it became a regime  > N >The day the USA began to arrest and piut in prison humans residing legally inG >the USA and detained then for long period without charghe or due legal  >process, it became a regime.  > H >And as long as the USA continues to abuse military power to attack/kill# >civilians in Iraq, it is a regime.  >  >Need I go on ?   , Nah, just kill yourself and be done with it.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 00:42:35 GMT # From: "Tim K." <timkozz@cfl.rr.com> ' Subject: Re: J F on why USA is a regime ; Message-ID: <%1Fbd.13202$yP2.10054@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>   - "Poor J F" <poor@crybaby.jf> wrote in message 1 news:7CVSI2T638274.7413773148@anonymous.poster...  > J F  M e z e i  wrote: >  > >Jeff Hacker wrote:  > > ! > >>JF, stay out of our politics.  > > K > >Then the USA should stay out of other country's politics. As soon as the  USa I > >startes to interfere with other countries, then oyher countries have a  right # > >to criticise the USA's policies.  > >  > > H > >> and (2) 50% of the country LIKES the President.  (3) in the U.S. we don't 2 > >> have a "regime" but rather an administration. > > L > >The day the USA began its illegal invasion of Iraq, it became a "regime". > > H > >The day the USA began to torture prisoners (both from afghanistan and Iraq), > >it became a regime  > > E > >The day the USA began to arrest and piut in prison humans residing 
 legally inI > >the USA and detained then for long period without charghe or due legal  > >process, it became a regime.  > > J > >And as long as the USA continues to abuse military power to attack/kill% > >civilians in Iraq, it is a regime.  > >  > >Need I go on ?  > . > Nah, just kill yourself and be done with it.  + So that's not United Space Alliance then...    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 00:51:05 GMT F From: "Gregory Morrow" <gregorymorrowLUCKBEALADYTONIGHT@earthlink.net>' Subject: Re: J F on why USA is a regime B Message-ID: <Z9Fbd.4476$SZ5.3725@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>   Poor J F wrote:    > J F  M e z e i  wrote: >  > >Jeff Hacker wrote:  > > ! > >>JF, stay out of our politics.  > > K > >Then the USA should stay out of other country's politics. As soon as the  USa I > >startes to interfere with other countries, then oyher countries have a  right # > >to criticise the USA's policies.  > >  > > H > >> and (2) 50% of the country LIKES the President.  (3) in the U.S. we don't 2 > >> have a "regime" but rather an administration. > > L > >The day the USA began its illegal invasion of Iraq, it became a "regime". > > H > >The day the USA began to torture prisoners (both from afghanistan and Iraq), > >it became a regime  > > E > >The day the USA began to arrest and piut in prison humans residing 
 legally inI > >the USA and detained then for long period without charghe or due legal  > >process, it became a regime.  > > J > >And as long as the USA continues to abuse military power to attack/kill% > >civilians in Iraq, it is a regime.  > >  > >Need I go on ?  > . > Nah, just kill yourself and be done with it.   *lol*   I Poor JF fails to discern the difference between poor governing abilities, L e.g. the Bush administration and totalitarianism.  In JF's eyes,  both NorthK Korea and the US are both on an equal footing as "rogue states", absolutely I no diff between 'em.  Utter nonsense, of course...but this is the kind of L feeble "reasoning" JF and his elk are reduced to...they've nothing but blind hatred and jealousy for the US.   J Heck, I consider Chicago poorly governed, Mayor Daley II is no better thanC Brezhnev, but that doesn't mean 2004 Chicago can be likened to say,  Magnitogorsk in 1966...   : [BTW, has JF trolled the circumcision groups lately...???]   --   Best Greg   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 20:32:26 +0200 . From: Frank Themann <frankthemann@T-Online.de>, Subject: Re: Latest on Windoze Navy software+ Message-ID: <416EC63A.D154ADFD@T-Online.de>    DL Phillips wrote:   [...]   H > So, order up the "Navy Destroyer's" package from CDW, pop the DVD intoC > the main server, read and accept the EULA, let it autodetect your D > hardware (or choose from the type of destroyer list), answer a few > questions like:  > ? >    Would you like a:  O typical install.    O custom install. - >    Are you the: O good guys.    O bad guys. 3 >    Enter your 126 digit license key now: [      ]  > E Dont forget about the installation of the missile launchers driver. G Its gonna ask for a test launch - after the launch it asks whether the  missile hit correctly or not.    [...]    Greetings from Germany   Frank    ------------------------------   Date: 14 Oct 2004 19:52:31 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon), Subject: Re: Latest on Windoze Navy software+ Message-ID: <2t83nvF1t1choU1@uni-berlin.de>   2 In article <31wbd.33418$Z14.13432@news.indigo.ie>,. 	"Tom Wade" <nospam@picard.eurokom.ie> writes: > 7 > "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message ' > news:2t7aqjF1rl804U2@uni-berlin.de...  >> ... Good programming D >> standards and practice will result in good and secure programs in. >> any language.  The reciprical is also true. > M > But some languages are better at encouraging bad programming practices than 	 > others.   + "It's a poor workman who blames his tools."   N >          For example C's handling of string arguments by passing the addressK > of the 1st character, and relying on a NULL byte to mark the end has been 6 > responsible for many buffer overrun vulnerabilities.  E I don't know how to break this too you, but C doesn't have a "string" D datatype.  There is nothing to prevent anyone from doing strings any@ way they please (like, for instance, the UCSD Pascal way).  NullD terminated strings are not strictly a C or Unix thing.  Macro-11 did3 exactly the same thing.  Look at .ASCIZ and .PRINT.   I >                                                        Remember all the : > sendmail bugs ?  These were typically on Unix systems.    @ Ye, and long after all this was known newer versions of sendmailB continued to have this problem.  The reason was apathy and not the? C programming language.  How long ago was the weakness in "null > terminated strings" revealed?  Why do we still have them?  Not> because of C, but because programmers don't really care.  And,# apparently neither do their bosses.   E >                                                           When more G > applications on Windows and OpenVMS were written in C, similar buffer M > overrun bugs appeared there too (the DEC TCP/IP stack was vulnerable to the M > ping-of-death exploit; and because it was a Unix port and nobody thought of N > building in an exception handler, when it blew up in kernel mode it took the > system down with it).  > F > Yes, you can compensate for this with good programming practice, butL > interfaces using string descriptors were always a much safer way to do it.  B And, as I said, C doesn't have a string data type so why are these@ problems still around?  Programmer apathy, supervisor apathy andJ acceptance of bad programming practice.  I can (and have for demonstrationB purposes) write bad programs in COBOL, Pascal, Ada, Java, Fortran.H Algol, PL/I, etc. etc. etc.  No langauge can stop a prgrammer from being stupid.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 17:32:50 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> , Subject: Re: Latest on Windoze Navy software, Message-ID: <416EF081.516A8249@teksavvy.com>   About C versus ADA.   L When I moved from VAX C to DEC C, I complained about how pedantic the ANSI CI compiler really was. I got used to it and went from fighting its pedantic ( complaints to working with the compiler.  K C has been accused of a lot, but I am curious as to specifics that make the  current C compiler inadequate.  M (yes, I know about the null terminated string issue, but that isn't so much a H compiler issue, and is even less of an issue when you use descriptors to interface to system services.)  I So what types of errors does the C compiler not find that other compilers  would find ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 17:35:02 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> , Subject: Re: Latest on Windoze Navy software, Message-ID: <416EF105.ED2B8A9D@teksavvy.com>   Tom Wade wrote: F > Yes, you can compensate for this with good programming practice, butL > interfaces using string descriptors were always a much safer way to do it.  , Does any language use descriptors natively ?  7 How does Pascal handle strings greater than 255 bytes ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 17:50:32 -0400 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>, Subject: Re: Latest on Windoze Navy software, Message-ID: <416EF4A8.4010205@tsoft-inc.com>   JF Mezei wrote:    > Tom Wade wrote:  > F >>Yes, you can compensate for this with good programming practice, butL >>interfaces using string descriptors were always a much safer way to do it. >> > . > Does any language use descriptors natively ?    	 VAX Basic 	 DEC BASIC   ! Aw, what the hell, MACRO-32.  :-)     9 > How does Pascal handle strings greater than 255 bytes ?  >    Dave   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 18:24:17 -0400 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>, Subject: Re: Latest on Windoze Navy software, Message-ID: <416EFC91.3050409@tsoft-inc.com>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:  4 > In article <31wbd.33418$Z14.13432@news.indigo.ie>,0 > 	"Tom Wade" <nospam@picard.eurokom.ie> writes: > 7 >>"Bill Gunshannon" <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message ' >>news:2t7aqjF1rl804U2@uni-berlin.de...  >> >>>... Good programming D >>>standards and practice will result in good and secure programs in. >>>any language.  The reciprical is also true. >>> M >>But some languages are better at encouraging bad programming practices than 	 >>others.  >> > - > "It's a poor workman who blames his tools."     M Many years ago, while holding a shovel, a friend grinned at me and said, "ya  # know, this is a stupid man's tool".   1 It's a stupid workman who choses the wrong tools.     N >>         For example C's handling of string arguments by passing the addressK >>of the 1st character, and relying on a NULL byte to mark the end has been 6 >>responsible for many buffer overrun vulnerabilities. >> > G > I don't know how to break this too you, but C doesn't have a "string" F > datatype.  There is nothing to prevent anyone from doing strings anyB > way they please (like, for instance, the UCSD Pascal way).  NullF > terminated strings are not strictly a C or Unix thing.  Macro-11 did5 > exactly the same thing.  Look at .ASCIZ and .PRINT.  >  > I >>                                                       Remember all the : >>sendmail bugs ?  These were typically on Unix systems.   >> > B > Ye, and long after all this was known newer versions of sendmailD > continued to have this problem.  The reason was apathy and not theA > C programming language.  How long ago was the weakness in "null @ > terminated strings" revealed?  Why do we still have them?  Not@ > because of C, but because programmers don't really care.  And,% > apparently neither do their bosses.     P This is similar to explaining the differences between VMS and windows, actually L anything and windoz, to some people, getting a blank look, and then they go  ahead and choose windoz.    E >>                                                          When more G >>applications on Windows and OpenVMS were written in C, similar buffer M >>overrun bugs appeared there too (the DEC TCP/IP stack was vulnerable to the M >>ping-of-death exploit; and because it was a Unix port and nobody thought of N >>building in an exception handler, when it blew up in kernel mode it took the >>system down with it).  >>F >>Yes, you can compensate for this with good programming practice, butL >>interfaces using string descriptors were always a much safer way to do it. >> > D > And, as I said, C doesn't have a string data type so why are theseB > problems still around?  Programmer apathy, supervisor apathy andL > acceptance of bad programming practice.  I can (and have for demonstrationD > purposes) write bad programs in COBOL, Pascal, Ada, Java, Fortran.J > Algol, PL/I, etc. etc. etc.  No langauge can stop a prgrammer from being	 > stupid.  >  > bill   Dave   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 22:51:00 GMT 2 From: Gib Copeland <copeland@jenni.path.uiowa.edu>, Subject: Re: Latest on Windoze Navy software. Message-ID: <opDbd.249489$D%.117216@attbi_s51>   JF Mezei wrote:  > Tom Wade wrote:  > F >>Yes, you can compensate for this with good programming practice, butL >>interfaces using string descriptors were always a much safer way to do it. >  > . > Does any language use descriptors natively ? > 9 > How does Pascal handle strings greater than 255 bytes ?   M I think all the DEC compilers (except C, because the language defined exactly G what a string must be) used descriptors to manage strings (and arrays), I certainly Ada, FORTRAN, and BASIC did, probably COBOL and Pascal as well. L One of the reasons that it was so easy to intermix languages in one program,< and call RTL & system service routines from those languages.  J Might have been nice if the length component of a static string descriptor had been a longword though.    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Oct 2004 17:50:03 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) , Subject: Re: Latest on Windoze Navy software3 Message-ID: <$MLBmF6fdLks@eisner.encompasserve.org>   V In article <2t83nvF1t1choU1@uni-berlin.de>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:4 > In article <31wbd.33418$Z14.13432@news.indigo.ie>,0 > 	"Tom Wade" <nospam@picard.eurokom.ie> writes:  O >>          For example C's handling of string arguments by passing the address L >> of the 1st character, and relying on a NULL byte to mark the end has been7 >> responsible for many buffer overrun vulnerabilities.  > G > I don't know how to break this too you, but C doesn't have a "string" F > datatype.  There is nothing to prevent anyone from doing strings any< > way they please (like, for instance, the UCSD Pascal way).  H Those of us who use Ada are well aware that the built in string datatype' upon which we rely is unavailable in C.   E We also know that one can fabricate a custom string type in C to make E up for the deficiency of the built-in "array of bytes terminated by a  null byte".   ? The question is, of all the C programs written, what percentage @ include such a custom definition to achieve the type safety that, is already built in to high-level languages.  E While I _could_ engage in safe programming practices just by spending H more time with C, what assurances do I have that _others_ have done so ?   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 23:13:32 GMT  From: reb <natron@ntlworld.com> , Subject: Re: Latest on Windoze Navy software0 Message-ID: <opsfvuq6saaqvj2s@news.ntlworld.com>  9 On 14 Oct 2004 00:22:48 GMT, <healyzh@aracnet.com> wrote:  > I > All hail the almighty Dollar (or technically in this case Pound).  Once H > again people decide to go with the cheaper solution, rather than the  + > better (and in this case safer) solution.     ? I'm not sure I follow the 'cheaper' argument. Whichever version A of MS Windows they adopt will be obsolete by the time the project B goes live, so they will either have to upgrade and hence requalify> the system (and repeat this process every 2 or 3 years) or run@ with an operating system they can neither support themselves norC get anyone else to support. On the other hand, maybe they've agreed E a long-term low-cost guaranteed-response support deal with Microsoft.      RB   ------------------------------   Date: 14 Oct 2004 23:33:10 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon), Subject: Re: Latest on Windoze Navy software+ Message-ID: <2t8glmF1tmvr6U1@uni-berlin.de>   3 In article <$MLBmF6fdLks@eisner.encompasserve.org>, 0 	Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:X > In article <2t83nvF1t1choU1@uni-berlin.de>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:5 >> In article <31wbd.33418$Z14.13432@news.indigo.ie>, 1 >> 	"Tom Wade" <nospam@picard.eurokom.ie> writes:  > P >>>          For example C's handling of string arguments by passing the addressM >>> of the 1st character, and relying on a NULL byte to mark the end has been 8 >>> responsible for many buffer overrun vulnerabilities. >>  H >> I don't know how to break this too you, but C doesn't have a "string"G >> datatype.  There is nothing to prevent anyone from doing strings any = >> way they please (like, for instance, the UCSD Pascal way).  > J > Those of us who use Ada are well aware that the built in string datatype) > upon which we rely is unavailable in C.  > G > We also know that one can fabricate a custom string type in C to make G > up for the deficiency of the built-in "array of bytes terminated by a 
 > null byte".  > A > The question is, of all the C programs written, what percentage B > include such a custom definition to achieve the type safety that. > is already built in to high-level languages.  D C was doing strings the way it does long before Ada was even a gleamD in DOD's eye.  Inertia is tough to buck.  Doesn't make it right, but' goes a long way in explaining why.  :-)    > G > While I _could_ engage in safe programming practices just by spending J > more time with C, what assurances do I have that _others_ have done so ?  E None.  And, not refering to you as I don't really know you, but if an I Ada program crosses my desk what assurances do I have that the programmer D who wrote it didn't make numerous mistakes?  The answer is the same.  * It ain't the language it's the programmer.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 23:22:36 GMT  From: reb <natron@ntlworld.com> , Subject: Re: Latest on Windoze Navy software0 Message-ID: <opsfvu7ifdaqvj2s@news.ntlworld.com>  H On 14 Oct 2004 17:50:03 -0500, Larry Kilgallen <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net>   wrote: > G > While I _could_ engage in safe programming practices just by spending J > more time with C, what assurances do I have that _others_ have done so ?    3 Somewhere I have a copy of a report from the old UK 3 electricity generating board that includes a phrase  alone the lines of:   4 "I'm sure it is possible to write safe code in C, in6   much the same way it is possible to shell peas while   wearing boxing gloves"     RB   ------------------------------   Date: 14 Oct 2004 23:39:08 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon), Subject: Re: Latest on Windoze Navy software+ Message-ID: <2t8h0sF1tmvr6U2@uni-berlin.de>   0 In article <opsfvu7ifdaqvj2s@news.ntlworld.com>," 	reb <natron@ntlworld.com> writes:J > On 14 Oct 2004 17:50:03 -0500, Larry Kilgallen <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net>   > wrote: >>H >> While I _could_ engage in safe programming practices just by spendingK >> more time with C, what assurances do I have that _others_ have done so ?  >  > 5 > Somewhere I have a copy of a report from the old UK 5 > electricity generating board that includes a phrase  > alone the lines of:  > 6 > "I'm sure it is possible to write safe code in C, in8 >   much the same way it is possible to shell peas while >   wearing boxing gloves" >   = So the man was an idiot.  There's a lot of that going around. ? Since I have been at this University I have watched the starter ? language go from Pascal to Ada to Java with later courses being > done using Modula, C, C++.  The students also get a smattering? of COBOL.  You know what.  The beginners make the same mistakes A using Java that ehy made using Ada and Pascal before it.  We like @ to think that by the time they graduate they know better than to) make those same mistakes in any language.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 14 Oct 2004 23:43:38 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon), Subject: Re: Latest on Windoze Navy software+ Message-ID: <2t8h9aF1tmvr6U3@uni-berlin.de>   . In article <opDbd.249489$D%.117216@attbi_s51>,5 	Gib Copeland <copeland@jenni.path.uiowa.edu> writes:  > JF Mezei wrote:N >> Tom Wade wrote: >> oG >>>Yes, you can compensate for this with good programming practice, buttM >>>interfaces using string descriptors were always a much safer way to do it.M >> t >>  / >> Does any language use descriptors natively ?m >> u: >> How does Pascal handle strings greater than 255 bytes ? > O > I think all the DEC compilers (except C, because the language defined exactlye > what a string must be) y  2 Read my lips.  C does not have a string data type.   bill   -- zJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   r   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Oct 2004 18:56:51 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) , Subject: Re: Latest on Windoze Navy software3 Message-ID: <02CB4SJgi3AB@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  V In article <2t8glmF1tmvr6U1@uni-berlin.de>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:  K > Ada program crosses my desk what assurances do I have that the programmer F > who wrote it didn't make numerous mistakes?  The answer is the same.  K You have the assurance the language was not chosen because it is trendy :-)    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Oct 2004 18:59:33 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)e, Subject: Re: Latest on Windoze Navy software3 Message-ID: <$b96iELMWIoW@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <opDbd.249489$D%.117216@attbi_s51>, Gib Copeland <copeland@jenni.path.uiowa.edu> writes:e  O > I think all the DEC compilers (except C, because the language defined exactly I > what a string must be) used descriptors to manage strings (and arrays),MK > certainly Ada, FORTRAN, and BASIC did, probably COBOL and Pascal as well.eN > One of the reasons that it was so easy to intermix languages in one program,> > and call RTL & system service routines from those languages.  L Actually DEC Ada only uses descriptors on interactions with non-Ada modules.; Internally it uses mechanisms that are more strongly typed.T   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 17:44:03 -0400 # From: sol gongola <sol@adldata.com>b, Subject: Re: Latest on Windoze Navy software+ Message-ID: <416EF323.A59D59E3@adldata.com>U   JF Mezei wrote:  >  > Tom Wade wrote:bH > > Yes, you can compensate for this with good programming practice, butN > > interfaces using string descriptors were always a much safer way to do it. > . > Does any language use descriptors natively ?   VMS fortrani  r9 > How does Pascal handle strings greater than 255 bytes ?h   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Oct 2004 19:08:51 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)i, Subject: Re: Latest on Windoze Navy software3 Message-ID: <+DHyy5CYV6xG@eisner.encompasserve.org>r  V In article <2t8h0sF1tmvr6U2@uni-berlin.de>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:  A > Since I have been at this University I have watched the starter A > language go from Pascal to Ada to Java with later courses being:@ > done using Modula, C, C++.  The students also get a smatteringA > of COBOL.  You know what.  The beginners make the same mistakese: > using Java that ehy made using Ada and Pascal before it.  @ Except that in higher level languages those errors are caught at" compile-time rather than run-time.  I Exposure to a variety of languages teaches that lesson - using automationd- is good for those who don't bill by the hour."   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 08:10:53 +0800e@ From: Tim Sneddon <first-initiallastname@bsddotinfomedia.com.au>, Subject: Re: Latest on Windoze Navy software+ Message-ID: <2t8isdF1pp61rU1@uni-berlin.de>d   Gib Copeland wrote:IH > I think all the DEC compilers (except C, because the language defined 	 > exactlymI > what a string must be) used descriptors to manage strings (and arrays),aK > certainly Ada, FORTRAN, and BASIC did, probably COBOL and Pascal as well.sF > One of the reasons that it was so easy to intermix languages in one 
 > program,> > and call RTL & system service routines from those languages. > L > Might have been nice if the length component of a static string descriptor > had been a longword though.E  F From what I've read I'm pretty sure that most languages have their ownC way of storing strings internally. Looking at the relevant language-E reference manual shows this. It just so happens that the defaults for E passing strings around between routines was ASCID for most languages.   F For languages that don't have string data types (C, BLISS, MACRO) it'sG just a matter of convention. Most CRTL functions expect null-terminateda" and so this has become the "norm".  
 Regards, Tim.c   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 20:15:23 -04002- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>t, Subject: Re: Latest on Windoze Navy software, Message-ID: <416F1690.82910B6D@teksavvy.com>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:4 > Read my lips.  C does not have a string data type.  J Unless you're a female supermodel, I'd rather not read or do anything with
 your lips :-)   H While pedantically, your sentence is correct, in practice, C does have aM string construct that is pretty standard (array of characters terminated withbM a null character). In fact, almost all of the C run time library expects such  a string construct as argument.0  L But when you think about it, C has exactly the same type of string constructL as cobol: a fixed length buffer of characters. What is lacks versus cobol isR automatic padding with blanks when you move a smaller string into a bigger buffer.   unsigned char mybuffer[80];    is not very different from:    	10 mybuffer	pic x(80).     K With C, you need to use sizeof(mybuffer) to indicate how many characters to ' move, whereas it is intrinsic in COBOL.n  L When the C run time provides is for the ability to work with variable lengthQ strings inside the confines of fixed length buffers. Something which COBOL lacks.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 17:14:45 -0700-# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>t, Subject: Re: Latest on Windoze Navy software( Message-ID: <opsfvxmvsxzgicya@hyrrokkin>  . On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 20:15:23 -0400, JF Mezei  % <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:s   > Bill Gunshannon wrote:5 >> Read my lips.  C does not have a string data type.  > I > Unless you're a female supermodel, I'd rather not read or do anything    > with > your lips :-)  >gJ > While pedantically, your sentence is correct, in practice, C does have aL > string construct that is pretty standard (array of characters terminated   > withL > a null character). In fact, almost all of the C run time library expects   > such! > a string construct as argument.aD Bill is correct C does not have a string type.  It has a primitive  	 construct"F that is a string of bytes usually terminated with a zero-byte , unlessF otherwise compromised.  If you haven't experienced real strings, you   haven'to@ lived and that super model will receded further from your grasp. > F > But when you think about it, C has exactly the same type of string   > construct G > as cobol: a fixed length buffer of characters. What is lacks versus  c
 > cobol isG > automatic padding with blanks when you move a smaller string into a  R > bigger buffer. >o > unsigned char mybuffer[80];7 >D > is not very different from:  >  > 	10 mybuffer	pic x(80).a >y >rL > With C, you need to use sizeof(mybuffer) to indicate how many characters   > to > move,   H unless something in your code stomped on the null byte, in which case it will churn on.  ! whereas it is intrinsic in COBOL.m >gI > When the C run time provides is for the ability to work with variable  d > lengthH > strings inside the confines of fixed length buffers. Something which   > COBOL lacks.       -- rC Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/-   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 17:22:46 -0700p# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> , Subject: Re: Latest on Windoze Navy software( Message-ID: <opsfvxz8sizgicya@hyrrokkin>  F On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 17:14:45 -0700, Tom Linden <tom@kednos.com> wrote:  0 > On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 20:15:23 -0400, JF Mezei  ' > <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:a >f >> Bill Gunshannon wrote: 6 >>> Read my lips.  C does not have a string data type. >>J >> Unless you're a female supermodel, I'd rather not read or do anything   >> witht >> your lips :-) >>K >> While pedantically, your sentence is correct, in practice, C does have aaB >> string construct that is pretty standard (array of characters   >> terminated withE >> a null character). In fact, almost all of the C run time library    >> expects such " >> a string construct as argument.F > Bill is correct C does not have a string type.  It has a primitive   > constructWH > that is a string of bytes usually terminated with a zero-byte , unlessH > otherwise compromised.  If you haven't experienced real strings, you  	 > haven't0B > lived and that super model will receded further from your grasp." I meant array of bytes, of course. >>G >> But when you think about it, C has exactly the same type of string    >> constructH >> as cobol: a fixed length buffer of characters. What is lacks versus   >> cobol isdH >> automatic padding with blanks when you move a smaller string into a   >> bigger buffer.i >> >> unsigned char mybuffer[80]; >> >> is not very different from: >> >> 	10 mybuffer	pic x(80). >> >>B >> With C, you need to use sizeof(mybuffer) to indicate how many   >> characters to >> move, > J > unless something in your code stomped on the null byte, in which case it > will churn on. >i# > whereas it is intrinsic in COBOL.d >>J >> When the C run time provides is for the ability to work with variable  	 >> lengtheI >> strings inside the confines of fixed length buffers. Something which  s >> COBOL lacks.  >n >  >n       --  C Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/m   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 21:03:37 -0400 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>t, Subject: Re: Latest on Windoze Navy software, Message-ID: <-JydnQinG-pvvPLcRVn-pw@igs.net>  
 reb wrote:; > On 14 Oct 2004 00:22:48 GMT, <healyzh@aracnet.com> wrote:d >>D >> All hail the almighty Dollar (or technically in this case Pound).C >> Once again people decide to go with the cheaper solution, rathero5 >> than the better (and in this case safer) solution.7 >4 >nA > I'm not sure I follow the 'cheaper' argument. Whichever version C > of MS Windows they adopt will be obsolete by the time the projectuD > goes live, so they will either have to upgrade and hence requalify@ > the system (and repeat this process every 2 or 3 years) or runB > with an operating system they can neither support themselves norE > get anyone else to support. On the other hand, maybe they've agreedtG > a long-term low-cost guaranteed-response support deal with Microsoft.o    ! Microsoft Critcal Response CenterT  ! Press 1 if you just want to chat.n  ; Press 2 if the problem is affecting your Windows CE system.   . Press 3 if this affecting a desktop or laptop.  2 Press 4 if this probelem is affecting your server.  < Press 5 if you have an inbound missle at a range >100 miles.  ; Press 5 if you have an inbound missile at a range <50 milesu  K If you have an inbound missile at a range of <10 miles, press 9 now and youe5 will be connected to the Microsoft India call center.h   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 21:27:37 -0500M( From: Wayne Sewell <wayne@tachysoft.com>, Subject: Re: Latest on Windoze Navy software/ Message-ID: <00A395BD.1785F170.5@tachysoft.com>r  - >Message-ID: <416EF105.ED2B8A9D@teksavvy.com>e& >Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 17:35:02 -0400. >From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> >Organization: nla0:+ >X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 (Macintosh; U; PPC)  >X-Accept-Language: en     >Tom Wade wrote:G >> Yes, you can compensate for this with good programming practice, butoM >> interfaces using string descriptors were always a much safer way to do it.  >i- >Does any language use descriptors natively ?n > 8 >How does Pascal handle strings greater than 255 bytes ?    M The Pascal varying string can be up to a word in size.  The count is not partgI of the string, so it is not limited to a single byte.  A Pascal string istI actually a data structure, the count word followed by the actual string. mK Therefore, the count can be accessed independently of the character string.nO ===============================================================================uN Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738   wayne@tachysoft.com; http://www.tachysoft.com/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html    O ===============================================================================nP Larry(sniffing):"I smell something awful." Moe:"Yeah, well don't brag about it."   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Oct 2004 21:32:30 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)a, Subject: Re: Latest on Windoze Navy software3 Message-ID: <tduWe2wPQe6n@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  n In article <2t8isdF1pp61rU1@uni-berlin.de>, Tim Sneddon <first-initiallastname@bsddotinfomedia.com.au> writes:  H > For languages that don't have string data types (C, BLISS, MACRO) it'sI > just a matter of convention. Most CRTL functions expect null-terminatedr$ > and so this has become the "norm".  8 Perhaps for those who use C, but not for the rest of us.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 22:04:11 -0500 ( From: Wayne Sewell <wayne@tachysoft.com>, Subject: Re: Latest on Windoze Navy software/ Message-ID: <00A395C2.32EE0EFC.3@tachysoft.com>i  - >Subject: Re: Latest on Windoze Navy softwarer >X-Newsgroups: comp.os.vms  >From: reb <natron@ntlworld.com>H >Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=iso-8859-15 >MIME-Version: 1.0  >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit   > : >On 14 Oct 2004 00:22:48 GMT, <healyzh@aracnet.com> wrote: >>J >> All hail the almighty Dollar (or technically in this case Pound).  OnceI >> again people decide to go with the cheaper solution, rather than the   , >> better (and in this case safer) solution. >h >.@ >I'm not sure I follow the 'cheaper' argument. Whichever versionB >of MS Windows they adopt will be obsolete by the time the projectC >goes live, so they will either have to upgrade and hence requalifya? >the system (and repeat this process every 2 or 3 years) or runtA >with an operating system they can neither support themselves nornD >get anyone else to support. On the other hand, maybe they've agreedF >a long-term low-cost guaranteed-response support deal with Microsoft. >     N Perhaps the right phrase is "perceived to be cheaper".  Not to start the TotalO Cost of Ownership battle again, but people who go with billyware are not as farrK below the cost of vms as they think, when factors like the required army ofa support people are considered.O ===============================================================================oN Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738   wayne@tachysoft.com; http://www.tachysoft.com/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html   gO =============================================================================== P Larry(sniffing):"I smell something awful." Moe:"Yeah, well don't brag about it."   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 23:34:42 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>y, Subject: Re: Latest on Windoze Navy software, Message-ID: <416F453C.1849C5B5@teksavvy.com>   Wayne Sewell wrote:fP > Perhaps the right phrase is "perceived to be cheaper".  Not to start the TotalQ > Cost of Ownership battle again, but people who go with billyware are not as farmM > below the cost of vms as they think, when factors like the required army of:  > support people are considered.  L Different budgets.  Windows costs less to purchase, and the piepole who makeK capitral purchases only worry about the capital expenses budgets and  humaneI resources budgets are someone else's problems. And often, the added human G resources budgets aren't known at time of purchase because the customereN believes the proposals that promise lower human resources costs if they choose$ the easy to manage windows solution.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 23:12:19 -0500u( From: Wayne Sewell <wayne@tachysoft.com>, Subject: Re: Latest on Windoze Navy software/ Message-ID: <00A395CB.B7507B31.1@tachysoft.com>   - >Message-ID: <416F453C.1849C5B5@teksavvy.com>t& >Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 23:34:42 -0400. >From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> >Organization: nla0:+ >X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 (Macintosh; U; PPC)    >t >Wayne Sewell wrote:Q >> Perhaps the right phrase is "perceived to be cheaper".  Not to start the TotalaR >> Cost of Ownership battle again, but people who go with billyware are not as farN >> below the cost of vms as they think, when factors like the required army of! >> support people are considered.  > M >Different budgets.  Windows costs less to purchase, and the piepole who makebL >capitral purchases only worry about the capital expenses budgets and  humanJ >resources budgets are someone else's problems. And often, the added humanH >resources budgets aren't known at time of purchase because the customerO >believes the proposals that promise lower human resources costs if they chooseN% >the easy to manage windows solution.r  O Doesn't make my statement untrue, just makes it less obvious.  Separate budgets I don't mean shit for the company's bottom line.  But yes, it does make thei stupidity easier to hide.tO =============================================================================== N Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738   wayne@tachysoft.com; http://www.tachysoft.com/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html   hO ===============================================================================uP Larry(sniffing):"I smell something awful." Moe:"Yeah, well don't brag about it."   ------------------------------   Date: 14 Oct 2004 15:17:12 GMT< From: gartmann@non.immunbio.mpg.de.sens (Christoph Gartmann). Subject: Re: Logging Serial Connection to File0 Message-ID: <ckm59o$598$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  \ In article <416E6185.BE21B7D3@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: >Christoph Gartmann wrote:L >> d) using C-Kermit. With its scripting capability it is no big deal to logP >>    everything into a file (see "LOG SESSION"). It is even possible to combineN >>    DCL and C-Kermit, that's what we do to create a logfile for our firewall >>    every day. >cL >How do you end the kermit script so that you can cleanly close the log file >and then re-open a new one ?h  M It is all controlled by the Kermit script. Depending on the strings that comeuJ through the line the script does "LOG SESSION" to start logging and "CLOSEI SESSION" to close it. In addition C-Kermit is able to set a DCL symbol or J Logical. So you may store a status code in there. A DCL on top of a scriptN may call the script, do some cleanup after the script terminates and then call the script again.c   Regards,    Christoph Gartmannt   -- fE  Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452t  ImmunbiologieI  Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio dot mpg dot dee  D-79011  Freiburg, Germanye9                http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/menue.htmle   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 17:49:48 -0400?- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>,. Subject: Re: Logging Serial Connection to File, Message-ID: <416EF47A.AEF1B9C5@teksavvy.com>   Christoph Gartmann wrote: O > It is all controlled by the Kermit script. Depending on the strings that comecL > through the line the script does "LOG SESSION" to start logging and "CLOSE > SESSION" to close it.   M Ok, but what if there is no specific string coming from the serial line whichoM the script can use to end the logging ?  Is there a way to somehow signal the-* kermit script to end the input statement ?  M (actually, I think i just found my answer: give the input statement a maximumNI time that amounts to 24 hours,  so if it hasn't found teh specific stringeM you're looking for, the INPUt statement will end with a failure, then you canr% handle this and restart the logging).g   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 22:20:44 -0400a2 From: "Jerry Alan Braga" <jerry.braga@noreply.com>. Subject: Re: Logging Serial Connection to File/ Message-ID: <YbWdnV-UhbZhrvLcRVn-qQ@rogers.com>r  C where can i find this documentation of opening a serial port in an  K application or better yet is there already one out there that does this on F the freeware  I "Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote in message t- news:prXrJwa1$FGu@eisner.encompasserve.org... E > In article <1tWdnV-pacBXTfDcRVn-sA@rogers.com>, "Jerry Alan Braga" f# > <jerry.braga@noreply.com> writes:nL >> We are implementing a new phone system that can dump an activity log to aL >> serial connection.  What we would like to do is have this logged capturedF >> into a log file ans store on our VMS server so that it then can be  >> importedwI >> into our database for analysis.  What would be the best way to handle   >> this. >> >sG >   If this log is at all valuable, then I would write a simple programlC >   to open the serial port directly on VMS, and use that.  Openinge@ >   a serial port via LAT or TELNET on a terminal server is wellD >   documented.  Opening a serial port directly on the VMS system is >   also an option.  >hD >   What hardware are you running VMS on?  Many have a couple serial
 >   ports. >    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Oct 2004 21:37:16 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)s. Subject: Re: Logging Serial Connection to File3 Message-ID: <WwJu7$0o1RhM@eisner.encompasserve.org>p  d In article <YbWdnV-UhbZhrvLcRVn-qQ@rogers.com>, "Jerry Alan Braga" <jerry.braga@noreply.com> writes:E > where can i find this documentation of opening a serial port in an y
 > applications  D http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/732FINAL/aa-pv6sf-tk/00/00/39-con.html   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 21:52:26 -0500d2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>. Subject: Re: Logging Serial Connection to File+ Message-ID: <416F3B6A.55ABE588@comcast.net>>   Jerry Alan Braga wrote:  > D > where can i find this documentation of opening a serial port in anL > application or better yet is there already one out there that does this on > the freeware  # In BASIC, it could be as simple as:l   	OPEN "TTA1:" AS FILE #1   In DCL:e   $ OPEN TERM TTA1:e  G "TTA1:" is used as an example. You need to determine the correct devicem name to use.   -- . David J Dachtera dba DJE Systemsi http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/n   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 23:03:29 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> . Subject: Re: Logging Serial Connection to File, Message-ID: <416F3DEC.6FF983B5@teksavvy.com>   Jerry Alan Braga wrote:  > D > where can i find this documentation of opening a serial port in anL > application or better yet is there already one out there that does this on > the freeware  K You want to look for the "terminal driver" documentations. It used to be ingL the "IO USers Manual", but I think that manual has since been renamed/mergedJ with another. If the serial port is on a terminal server, you also want toO take a peek at the LAT driver documentation next to the terminal driver doc :-)a  N If you need to just read/write data to a serial port without having to set its$ characteristics, you can simply use:  N SYS$ASSIGN ( HELP SYSTEM $ASSIGN) with the device name , giving you a channel.  K then use SYS$QIO with and IO$READVBLK item code, giving the channel number, G buffer, number of bytes to read etc. (this is also documented in the IO Q users's manual , as well as system services manual for the $QIO general service).   N $QIO on a terminal channel give you a wonderful feature called "timeout" which7 allows the io to complete after a period of inactivity.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 14:58:50 -0400 , From: "warren sander" <warren.sander@hp.com>" Subject: Re: OpenVMS : New Roadmap, Message-ID: <416ecdad$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>   ok,d I created a new pdf file[ http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/roadmaps/openvms_roadmaps_files/openvms_roadmaps_test.pdfsJ I think I got all the fonts embeded in the pdf. since I have all the fontsJ installed on my systems I can't really check it out as much as I'd like toH but acrobat says all the fonts are there. Please check it out and let me know if it's ok.   thanks -warrene    : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message& news:416D89C6.8FF03FFC@teksavvy.com... > Michael Unger wrote:K > > It might depend on the fonts installed locally (and on font replacementgJ > > algorithms) -- the PDF document doesn't contain *all* fonts referenced
 > > in it. >eH > Then the creator of the PDF document needs to change the config of the Acrobat:J > software so that it includes all but the standard 13 fonts to ensure the& > documet can be read on any platform.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 17:04:22 -0400-, From: "warren sander" <warren.sander@hp.com>" Subject: Re: OpenVMS : New Roadmap, Message-ID: <416eeb19$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>   that'sZ http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/roadmap/openvms_roadmaps_files/openvms_roadmaps_test.pdf no 's' in first roadmap...  7 "warren sander" <warren.sander@hp.com> wrote in messagee& news:416ecdad$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com... > ok,e > I created a new pdf file >w[ http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/roadmaps/openvms_roadmaps_files/openvms_roadmaps_test.pdfpL > I think I got all the fonts embeded in the pdf. since I have all the fontsL > installed on my systems I can't really check it out as much as I'd like toJ > but acrobat says all the fonts are there. Please check it out and let me > know if it's ok. >  > thanks	 > -warreni >  >m< > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message( > news:416D89C6.8FF03FFC@teksavvy.com... > > Michael Unger wrote:A > > > It might depend on the fonts installed locally (and on fontc replacementeL > > > algorithms) -- the PDF document doesn't contain *all* fonts referenced > > > in it. > >rJ > > Then the creator of the PDF document needs to change the config of the	 > AcrobattL > > software so that it includes all but the standard 13 fonts to ensure the( > > documet can be read on any platform. >c >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 17:21:11 -04002# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>4" Subject: Re: OpenVMS : New Roadmap, Message-ID: <Y_6dnaj55NFMcPPcRVn-tQ@igs.net>   warren sander wrote: > that's >OL http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/roadmap/openvms_roadmaps_files/openvms_roa dmaps_test.pdf > no 's' in first roadmap... > 9 > "warren sander" <warren.sander@hp.com> wrote in messagee( > news:416ecdad$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com... >> ok, >> I created a new pdf files >> >sL http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/roadmaps/openvms_roadmaps_files/openvms_ro admaps_test.pdfrG >> I think I got all the fonts embeded in the pdf. since I have all the G >> fonts installed on my systems I can't really check it out as much as'E >> I'd like to but acrobat says all the fonts are there. Please checkM% >> it out and let me know if it's ok.- >>	 >> thanks 
 >> -warren >> >>= >> "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in messageR) >> news:416D89C6.8FF03FFC@teksavvy.com...- >>> Michael Unger wrote:@ >>>> It might depend on the fonts installed locally (and on fontF >>>> replacement algorithms) -- the PDF document doesn't contain *all* >>>> fonts referenced in it. >>>oF >>> Then the creator of the PDF document needs to change the config ofD >>> the Acrobat software so that it includes all but the standard 13< >>> fonts to ensure the documet can be read on any platform.     It looks better to me.  J Now, can you do something about fixing the 'plan of record' to include EV8 and EV9?   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Oct 2004 18:02:50 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)s" Subject: Re: OpenVMS : New Roadmap3 Message-ID: <M61iu3kotWpQ@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  [ In article <416eeb19$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>, "warren sander" <warren.sander@hp.com> writes:a > that's\ > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/roadmap/openvms_roadmaps_files/openvms_roadmaps_test.pdf > no 's' in first roadmap...  ? That worked fine for me with Acrobat Reader 4.05a on MacOS 9.1.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 17:52:09 -0400 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>J Subject: Re: OT Restrictions on use of Pascal?  Was Latest on Windoze Navy, Message-ID: <416EF509.2070002@tsoft-inc.com>   JF Mezei wrote:    > Rob Brown wrote: > D >>Sorry, I'm not making the connection here.  Are you not allowed to= >>distribute the source of programs that you write in Pascal?  >> > M > Customers may want the ability to modify the source code later on, and theyeM > will therefore want it written in a maintream language and not some obscureA- > language that their programmers don't know.y >   & Maybe they have the wrong programmers?  2 Maybe their programmers should be better educated?   Dave   -- e4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road. Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------   Date: 14 Oct 2004 22:28:21 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)J Subject: Re: OT Restrictions on use of Pascal?  Was Latest on Windoze Navy+ Message-ID: <2t8cs5F1sbmt7U1@uni-berlin.de>r  , In article <416EF509.2070002@tsoft-inc.com>,+ 	David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:l > JF Mezei wrote:  >  >> Rob Brown wrote:L >> KE >>>Sorry, I'm not making the connection here.  Are you not allowed toe> >>>distribute the source of programs that you write in Pascal? >>>  >> aN >> Customers may want the ability to modify the source code later on, and theyN >> will therefore want it written in a maintream language and not some obscure. >> language that their programmers don't know. >>   > ( > Maybe they have the wrong programmers?  G I was going to say that when it comes to computer languages, mainstream-C is very dependant on the community.  In many Government ContractingiC circles Ada is still very mainstream.  In some Air Force operations C Jovial is still mainstream.  I am sure there are still places where<D mainstream would mean Fortran and, contrary to popular belief, there4 are still a lot of places where COBOL is mainstream.   > 4 > Maybe their programmers should be better educated?  B On this I am sure we agree.  I speak a couple of natural languagesF because english isn't always the right answer.  The same is definitelyE true when it comes to computer languages except that in order to be aeF well rounded programmer knowledge (even proficiency) in more than just a couple is a necessity.   bill   -- nJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------    Date: 14 Oct 2004 17:56:15 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) J Subject: Re: OT Restrictions on use of Pascal?  Was Latest on Windoze Navy3 Message-ID: <E9iAJbB$Rekz@eisner.encompasserve.org>k  W In article <416EF509.2070002@tsoft-inc.com>, David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:k > JF Mezei wrote:  >  >> Rob Brown wrote:n >> oE >>>Sorry, I'm not making the connection here.  Are you not allowed toc> >>>distribute the source of programs that you write in Pascal? >>>y >> cN >> Customers may want the ability to modify the source code later on, and theyN >> will therefore want it written in a maintream language and not some obscure. >> language that their programmers don't know. >> W > ( > Maybe they have the wrong programmers?  F They certainly have the wrong programmers if their programmers are tooF dumb to learn Pascal.  Strongly typed languages are much more reliableG for programs that will be maintained other than by the original author.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 19:56:43 -0400a- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>DJ Subject: Re: OT Restrictions on use of Pascal?  Was Latest on Windoze Navy, Message-ID: <416F1231.95BF65E4@teksavvy.com>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:H > They certainly have the wrong programmers if their programmers are tooH > dumb to learn Pascal.  Strongly typed languages are much more reliableI > for programs that will be maintained other than by the original author.   N However, there are times where language restrictions force programmers to findN twisted ways to get around language limitations and those can greatly decrease( program quality and ease of maintenance.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 17:18:48 -0700n# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>vJ Subject: Re: OT Restrictions on use of Pascal?  Was Latest on Windoze Navy( Message-ID: <opsfvxtmpwzgicya@hyrrokkin>  . On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 19:56:43 -0400, JF Mezei  % <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:I   > Larry Kilgallen wrote:I >> They certainly have the wrong programmers if their programmers are toooI >> dumb to learn Pascal.  Strongly typed languages are much more reliable J >> for programs that will be maintained other than by the original author. >gJ > However, there are times where language restrictions force programmers  	 > to findsI > twisted ways to get around language limitations and those can greatly  9
 > decrease* > program quality and ease of maintenance.  1 That is hardly erudite and cause for a pink slip.r     --  C Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/e   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 17:45:09 -0400n- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>eY Subject: Re: OT Restrictions on use of Pascal?  Was Latest on Windoze Navy software softwl, Message-ID: <416EF364.C11E9B92@teksavvy.com>   Rob Brown wrote:D > Sorry, I'm not making the connection here.  Are you not allowed to= > distribute the source of programs that you write in Pascal?-  K Customers may want the ability to modify the source code later on, and theyoK will therefore want it written in a maintream language and not some obscuree+ language that their programmers don't know.    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Oct 2004 16:03:36 -04003 From: Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com>e Subject: Re: OT: IBM Redbooks . Message-ID: <mddmzypgj8n.fsf@panix5.panix.com>  = koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:   > > In article <mddpt3m71zc.fsf@panix5.panix.com>, Rich Alderson) > <news@alderson.users.panix.com> writes:0  O >> How about DECsystem?  First used on a series of excellent 36-bit mainframes,sL >> and later re-used on an Ultrix server product with a MIPS processor (same% >> timeframe as the DECstation-3100).e  < >    You're confusing DECSYSTEM with DECsystem.  I had both.  N I'm sitting in a room with a DECsystem-1090 and a DECSYSTEM-2065 as I type.  IO couldn't remember the capitalization used on the MIPS boxen; I've been aware oftL the different capitalizations for the -10 and the -20 for nearly 30 years...   -- eL Rich Alderson                                       | /"\ ASCII ribbon     |L news@alderson.users.panix.com                       | \ / campaign against |L "You get what anybody gets. You get a lifetime."    |  x  HTML mail and    |L                          --Death, of the Endless    | / \ postings         |   ------------------------------   Date: 14 Oct 04 16:18:27 EDT) From: cook@wvnvms.wvnet.edu (George Cook)d Subject: Re: OT: IBM RedbooksR! Message-ID: <wGwjAAVZ1D6L@wvnvms>   c In article <QSxbd.154$qH3.144@bignews6.bellsouth.net>, Chuck Chopp <ChuckChopp@rtfmcsi.com> writes:e > Fabio Cardoso wrote: > D >> By the way ... Are there movies (documentaries, TV ads, memories)0 >> from DEC available? May be in any HP garage ? > K > I still have a small rubber/plastic "Fletcher"... as was portrayed as an aM > animated character in some sort of DEC marketing video we saw at a meeting sK > of the MIVAX LUG during a montly meeting of DECUS members.  I distinctly  M > remember the scene where the cyberspace adventurers were traveling through  K > the network and got onto a lobe in a token ring network and they entered  I > into the core of an IBM mainframe... it was quite funny to watch.  The  H > visualizations of various computer & network technologies were rather K > creative and entertaining to see and that one marketing video I wouldn't h > mind seeing in MPEG format.   J I have a copy of the video on VHS.  "Educating Peter", Runtime 12 minutes,@ 9/24/90, part #EA-V0384-46.  Unfortunately the copyright forbidsE redistribution without written permission.  Yes, it was pretty funny;5D I still get a good laugh when IBM's MVS (which we were still running; here when the video came out) is represented by Stonehenge.1     George Cook> WVNETl   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 17:53:03 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>o Subject: Re: OT: IBM Redbooksr, Message-ID: <416EF53D.E205FD29@teksavvy.com>   George Cook wrote:L > I have a copy of the video on VHS.  "Educating Peter", Runtime 12 minutes,B > 9/24/90, part #EA-V0384-46.  Unfortunately the copyright forbids- > redistribution without written permission. t    M Is this a copyright belonging to Digital ? If so, perhaps we could get Sue totN do her magic and magically allow distribution of this video ? (or perhaps theyI could put it on their web site (not in windows media stuff, but in eitheri quicktime or mpeg formats).n   ------------------------------   Date: 14 Oct 04 18:39:17 EDT) From: cook@wvnvms.wvnet.edu (George Cook)s Subject: Re: OT: IBM Redbooksh! Message-ID: <acwsf++$P25F@wvnvms>a  \ In article <416EF53D.E205FD29@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > George Cook wrote:M >> I have a copy of the video on VHS.  "Educating Peter", Runtime 12 minutes,-C >> 9/24/90, part #EA-V0384-46.  Unfortunately the copyright forbids-. >> redistribution without written permission.  > O > Is this a copyright belonging to Digital ? If so, perhaps we could get Sue toTP > do her magic and magically allow distribution of this video ? (or perhaps theyK > could put it on their web site (not in windows media stuff, but in either  > quicktime or mpeg formats).e  C Copyright 1990 Digital Equipment Corporation.  The copyright noticelC recorded on the tape is fairly long in barely readable type, but itt* looked like DEC had total control over it.     George Cookd WVNET    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 20:08:47 -0400l* From: Chuck Chopp <ChuckChopp@rtfmcsi.com> Subject: Re: OT: IBM Redbookse6 Message-ID: <DxEbd.839$qH3.167@bignews6.bellsouth.net>   George Cook wrote:  ^ > In article <416EF53D.E205FD29@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: >  >>George Cook wrote: >>M >>>I have a copy of the video on VHS.  "Educating Peter", Runtime 12 minutes,tC >>>9/24/90, part #EA-V0384-46.  Unfortunately the copyright forbidsy. >>>redistribution without written permission.  >>O >>Is this a copyright belonging to Digital ? If so, perhaps we could get Sue tooP >>do her magic and magically allow distribution of this video ? (or perhaps theyK >>could put it on their web site (not in windows media stuff, but in either  >>quicktime or mpeg formats).y >  > E > Copyright 1990 Digital Equipment Corporation.  The copyright noticesE > recorded on the tape is fairly long in barely readable type, but it , > looked like DEC had total control over it.  K Yes, that's the video... now that the name has been provided.... I seem to bK recall there were flashes of lightning coming from the center of the stone x	 henge....u  E I'd love to see that one again.  I've got the analog A/V to FireWire uM converter for capturing VHS into digital formats and could easily convert it -M to MPEG format if I had a copy of it on tape.  Maybe Sue can do something to m1 get this one released to be freely distributable.e     --   Chuck Choppi  8 ChuckChopp (at) rtfmcsi (dot) com http://www.rtfmcsi.com  @ RTFM Consulting Services Inc.     864 801 2795 voice & voicemail2 103 Autumn Hill Road              864 801 2774 fax Greer, SC  29651  , Do not send me unsolicited commercial email.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 21:17:08 -0400h) From: William Webb <webbww@bellsouth.net>y+ Subject: OT: Re: J F on why USA is a regime 6 Message-ID: <OvFbd.1139$qH3.37@bignews6.bellsouth.net>   <snip>  3 Utter nonsense, of course...but this is the kind oftN > feeble "reasoning" JF and his elk are reduced to...they've nothing but blind! > hatred and jealousy for the US.n >    JF and his elK?.   Wrong newsgroup, pal.s   WWWebb   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 20:46:27 -0500y2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>8 Subject: Re: Program to read a 8000 bytes record file...+ Message-ID: <416F2BF3.92BE7F5E@comcast.net>p   JF Mezei wrote:e >  > Shiva MahaDeva wrote:  > > L > > Im looking for a program or DCL procedure to open a specified file withL > > a 8000 bytes record, and put this record in another file, with a 80 byte$ > > record file and carriage_return. > [snip]C > If the file is fixed record length of 8000, what you could do is:n > O > SET FILE myfile.dat/ATTR=(RFM:fix,LRL:80,RAT=CR) would do the trick and wouldfK > be extremely quick since it would only change the file attributes withoutu > needing to copy the file.t  $ Well, o.k. This would work for that:  + $ SET FILE myfile.dat/ATTR=(RFM:fix,LRL:80)n1 $ CONVERT/FDL=SYS$INPUT: myfile.dat mynewfile.dat  FILE*         ORGANIZATION            sequential RECORD#         BLOCK_SPAN              yesy/         CARRIAGE_CONTROL        carriage_returni)         FORMAT                  stream_cr !         SIZE                    0  $ EOD   @ Then, "mynewfile.dat" would be 80-byte records, <CR>-terminated.   -- r David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems- http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:"" http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------   Date: 14 Oct 2004 15:22:18 GMT< From: gartmann@non.immunbio.mpg.de.sens (Christoph Gartmann) Subject: Queuename from DCL?0 Message-ID: <ckm5ja$598$2@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>   Hello,  J from within a DCL procedure I need to know the name of the queue where theM procedure is running in. How would I do this? I am aware of F$QETQUI but thiswF looks a bit overcomplicated for this simple question. Any other ideas?   Regards,    Christoph Gartmanni   -- hE  Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452   ImmunbiologieI  Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio dot mpg dot det  D-79011  Freiburg, Germanya9                http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/menue.htmld   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 15:15:55 -0400y* From: Kenneth.Robinson@VerizonWireless.com  Subject: RE: Queuename from DCL?" Message-ID: <6257170@MVB.SAIC.COM>   > -----Original Message-----) > From: gartmann@non.immunbio.mpg.de.sens. > Subject: Queuename from DCL? >  >  > Hello, > = > from within a DCL procedure I need to know the name of the   > queue where theu> > procedure is running in. How would I do this? I am aware of  > F$QETQUI but thiscH > looks a bit overcomplicated for this simple question. Any other ideas?  C How is "f$getqui("DISPLAY_QUEUE","QUEUE_NAME","*","THIS_JOB")" overa complicated?   Ken Robinson   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Oct 2004 14:24:30 -0500 From: briggs@encompasserve.org  Subject: Re: Queuename from DCL?3 Message-ID: <F7Sr2sa6WdUg@eisner.encompasserve.org>m  o In article <ckm5ja$598$2@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>, gartmann@non.immunbio.mpg.de.sens (Christoph Gartmann) writes:  > Hello, > L > from within a DCL procedure I need to know the name of the queue where theO > procedure is running in. How would I do this? I am aware of F$QETQUI but this H > looks a bit overcomplicated for this simple question. Any other ideas?  N $ write sys$output f$getqui ( "DISPLAY_QUEUE", "QUEUE_NAME", "*", "THIS_JOB" )   	John Briggs   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 19:27:54 GMTs% From: Rob Brown <mylastname@gmcl.com>l  Subject: Re: Queuename from DCL?E Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0410141325380.18289@localhost.localdomain>d  . On Thu, 14 Oct 2004, Christoph Gartmann wrote:  C > from within a DCL procedure I need to know the name of the queue uE > where the procedure is running in. How would I do this? I am aware yC > of F$QETQUI but this looks a bit overcomplicated for this simple   > question. Any other ideas?  C I always thought that the documentation for F$GETQUI was daunting. I@ However, I know of no other way to get the information you seek:      $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT --@        f$getqui ("DISPLAY_QUEUE", "QUEUE_NAME", "*", "THIS_JOB")     -- K  B Rob Brown                        b r o w n a t g m c l d o t c o mA G. Michaels Consulting Ltd.      (866)438-2101 (voice) toll free!16 Edmonton                         (780)438-9343 (voice)5                                   (780)437-3367 (FAX)d2                                   http://gmcl.com/   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 21:38:14 +0200 0 From: Keith Cayemberg <keith.cayemberg@arcor.de>  Subject: Re: Queuename from DCL?B Message-ID: <416ed5a7$0$22609$9b4e6d93@newsread4.arcor-online.net>   Christoph Gartmann wrote:a > Hello, > L > from within a DCL procedure I need to know the name of the queue where theO > procedure is running in. How would I do this? I am aware of F$QETQUI but thiswH > looks a bit overcomplicated for this simple question. Any other ideas? > 
 > Regards, >    Christoph Gartmann= >   A Not really so complicated. When you have a specific entry number, 1 there is no need to step through a Queue Context.a  7 $ QNAME = F$GETQUI("DISPLAY_ENTRY","QUEUE_NAME",$ENTRY)  $ Show Symbol QNAMEa    QNAME = "SYS$BATCH"    F The $ENTRY symbol is automatically defined as the entry number of the A current batch job if the current procedure is running within one.l   Cheers!a   Keith Cayembergh   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Oct 2004 18:12:41 -0700# From: dooleys@snowy.net.au (dooley)e  Subject: Re: Queuename from DCL?= Message-ID: <1ca82fc6.0410141712.1d919360@posting.google.com>r  t gartmann@non.immunbio.mpg.de.sens (Christoph Gartmann) wrote in message news:<ckm5ja$598$2@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>... > Hello, > L > from within a DCL procedure I need to know the name of the queue where theO > procedure is running in. How would I do this? I am aware of F$QETQUI but thissH > looks a bit overcomplicated for this simple question. Any other ideas? > 
 > Regards, >    Christoph Gartmann > Yes it does have many functions, items, object-ids, and flags, but this one works for me.> CURRENT_QUEUE=F$GETQUI("DISPLAY_JOB","QUEUE_NAME",,"THIS_JOB") Phil   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 03:12:54 GMTy% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>c  Subject: Re: Queuename from DCL?< Message-ID: <WeHbd.13139$By.1030@newssvr15.news.prodigy.com>  > "Keith Cayemberg" <keith.cayemberg@arcor.de> wrote in message < news:416ed5a7$0$22609$9b4e6d93@newsread4.arcor-online.net... > Christoph Gartmann wrote: 	 >> Hello,: >>J >> from within a DCL procedure I need to know the name of the queue where  >> theL >> procedure is running in. How would I do this? I am aware of F$QETQUI but  >> thisfI >> looks a bit overcomplicated for this simple question. Any other ideas?e >> >> Regards,  >>    Christoph Gartmann >> >eC > Not really so complicated. When you have a specific entry number,e3 > there is no need to step through a Queue Context.u >r9 > $ QNAME = F$GETQUI("DISPLAY_ENTRY","QUEUE_NAME",$ENTRY)t > $ Show Symbol QNAME  >   QNAME = "SYS$BATCH"i >l >rH > The $ENTRY symbol is automatically defined as the entry number of the C > current batch job if the current procedure is running within one.e >r  M $ENTRY is defined when you do a SUBMIT or PRINT as the entry number that was pK just created, it's not the entry number of the current batch job.  You may  M be thinking of THIS_ENTRY which isn't a DCL symbol but, it tells f$getqui to  ) get information about the current entry. a   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 20:58:54 -0500D2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>G Subject: Re: Routine to Resubmit print/batch entries from queue listing4+ Message-ID: <416F2EDE.D72DAC7E@comcast.net>.   Fred Hoenisch wrote: > 	 > Hi all:M > N > Does anyone have a routine that will take a queue listing ($ SHOW QUEUE /ALLF > /FULL /OUT=<fname>) and generate a list of SUBMIT statements from it2 > (obviously with all the appropriate qualifiers)? > % > I don't want to reinvent the wheel.v   Rebuilding your queue database?   0 Want to take a snapshot at system shutdown time?  F SHOW QUEUE/FULL/ALL alreday contains most everything as qualifiers andF values. Filtering out the rest in DCL should be a trivial exercise and good experience.  0 I need that so seldom, I usually do it with EDT.   -- e David J Dachtera dba DJE Systemse http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:h" http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/o   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 20:56:05 +0200t" From: labadie <labadie_g@decus.fr>+ Subject: Re: VMS and Perl /Python scriptingt7 Message-ID: <416ecc28$0$28798$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>=   Andrew Robert a crit := > Hi everyone, > D > Does anyone know of any good web sites with sample Perl or Python ( > scripts specifically designed for VMS? > K > I've been doing some Perl/Python development on VMS and the results have = > been very positive.= > 3 > Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated.e >  > Thanks for Perl' http://www.sidhe.org/vmsperl/index.html 5 http://www.scit.wlv.ac.uk/~jphb/perl/pod/perlvms.htmlm     for Python, seer http://vmspython.dyndns.org/  H and something tells me some new (Vms specific) examples should be added 
 quite soon :-)t   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 15:27:38 -0400o) From: Andrew Robert <arobert@townisp.com>d+ Subject: Re: VMS and Perl /Python scriptingt0 Message-ID: <10mtknkl868rpfe@corp.supernews.com>  ! Something tells me you are right.n  G I've found that Perl and Python work far better than DCL in some cases.        labadie wrote: > Andrew Robert a crit :H >  >> Hi everyone,m >>E >> Does anyone know of any good web sites with sample Perl or Python e) >> scripts specifically designed for VMS?m >>G >> I've been doing some Perl/Python development on VMS and the results o >> have been very positive.g >>4 >> Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated. >>	 >> Thanks  > 
 > for Perl) > http://www.sidhe.org/vmsperl/index.htmln7 > http://www.scit.wlv.ac.uk/~jphb/perl/pod/perlvms.html  >  >  > for Python, seep > http://vmspython.dyndns.org/ > J > and something tells me some new (Vms specific) examples should be added  > quite soon > :-)+   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 18:05:12 -0500 6 From: "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@mac.com.spamfooler>+ Subject: Re: VMS and Perl /Python scripting.D Message-ID: <craigberry-7CC320.18051214102004@news.isp.giganews.com>  7 In article <416ecc28$0$28798$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>,e$  labadie <labadie_g@decus.fr> wrote:  7 > http://www.scit.wlv.ac.uk/~jphb/perl/pod/perlvms.html.  , there is a later version of that document at  1 http://www.perldoc.com/perl5.8.4/vms/perlvms.htmlp   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 18:05:05 -0500E6 From: "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@mac.com.spamfooler>+ Subject: Re: VMS and Perl /Python scriptingsD Message-ID: <craigberry-0C1692.18050414102004@news.isp.giganews.com>  0 In article <10mtd99gvdvri6a@corp.supernews.com>,+  Andrew Robert <arobert@townisp.com> wrote:   D > Does anyone know of any good web sites with sample Perl or Python ( > scripts specifically designed for VMS?  H For Perl, you may want to join the vmsperl mailing list by sending mail C to vmsperl-subscribe AT perl DOT org or at least read the archives  E on-line at <http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.vmsperl>.  You might 0C also want to go to <http://search.cpan.org> and enter "VMS" in the >A search box to get a sense of some of the VMS-specific extensions nF available.  But there are lots of things you can do that also work on  other platforms as well.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 00:06:17 -0400i- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>e8 Subject: VMS related water bound powerful mammal artwork, Message-ID: <416F4CA1.BBFE3037@teksavvy.com>  F In the theoretical scenario where I would have an imaginary friend whoM happened to have *THE* shark in vector format (resizeable, can change colourscN etc), and such imaginary friend wanted to make that shark available to the VMSL community since it seems to be the de-facto logo to compete against the evilN penguin, what would be the best format to distribute this so that it is usable by the VMS community ?   PICT ? t DXF ?> EPS ? 
 Freehand ?
 Illustrator ?u   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 06:57:36 +0200e- From: Alex van Denzel <vandenzel@hotmail.com>i< Subject: Re: VMS related water bound powerful mammal artwork7 Message-ID: <416f5914$0$46374$cd19a363@news.wanadoo.nl>e   JF Mezei wrote:p  ! > blablabla *THE* shark blablabla   : Whales are mammals. Dolphins are mammals. Sharks are fish.   -- Alex.-   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Oct 2004 13:18:45 -0700 From: vershinin-vk@mtu-net.ru @ Subject: VTfm - OpenVMS file manager for VT-compatible terminals= Message-ID: <b587d953.0410141218.171aeb0a@posting.google.com>v  B I present the new release 2.2-6 of my freeware open source programE VTfm which is a Norton Commander-style file manager for OpenVMS. VTfm + works on VAX, Alpha and IA64 under OpenVMS..   You can download VTFM.ZIP fromF http://eisner.encompasserve.org/~vershinin/vtfm.zip, unzip archive and read README.TXT in [.VTFM].      Vladimir Vershinin,@ Moscow, Russia,j vershinin-vk@mtu-net.ruo   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.572 ************************