1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 15 Oct 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 573       Contents:" Re: Alpha COBOL Debugger anomolies Re: Command Substitution ?? % DE500 - DE602 and auto-negociate mode ) Re: DE500 - DE602 and auto-negociate mode ) Re: DE500 - DE602 and auto-negociate mode ) Re: DE500 - DE602 and auto-negociate mode  DFU for Itanium, or sources?  Re: DFU for Itanium, or sources? Re: J F on why USA is a regime" Re: Re: J F on why USA is a regime Re: J F on why USA is a regime Re: Laptop as a terminal? # Re: Latest on Windoze Navy software # Re: Latest on Windoze Navy software # Re: Latest on Windoze Navy software # Re: Latest on Windoze Navy software # Re: Latest on Windoze Navy software # Re: Latest on Windoze Navy software # Re: Latest on Windoze Navy software # Re: Latest on Windoze Navy software # Re: Latest on Windoze Navy software # Re: Latest on Windoze Navy software # Re: Latest on Windoze Navy software # Re: Latest on Windoze Navy software # Re: Latest on Windoze Navy software # Re: Latest on Windoze Navy software ; Re: Let me own OpenVMS and I will destroy the linux market! % Re: Logging Serial Connection to File % Re: Logging Serial Connection to File   Re: Newbie question re: accounts  Re: Newbie question re: accounts  Re: Newbie question re: accounts  Re: Newbie question re: accounts  Re: Newbie question re: accounts Re: OpenVMS : New Roadmap A Re: OT Restrictions on use of Pascal?  Was Latest on Windoze Navy  Re: OT: IBM Redbooks& Re: OT: Re: J F on why USA is a regime Re: OT: Sun's fighting chance  RE: Queuename from DCL?  suns big mistake ... Re: suns big mistake ... SYSUAF => export passwords ???  Usable snapshot of a DEcwindow ?$ Re: Usable snapshot of a DEcwindow ?$ RE: Usable snapshot of a DEcwindow ?3 Re: VMS related water bound powerful mammal artwork 3 Re: VMS related water bound powerful mammal artwork 3 Re: VMS related water bound powerful mammal artwork 3 Re: VMS related water bound powerful mammal artwork 3 Re: VMS related water bound powerful mammal artwork 3 Re: VMS related water bound powerful mammal artwork 3 Re: VMS related water bound powerful mammal artwork 8 [OT] C and Ada, was: Re: Latest on Windoze Navy software  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 15 Oct 2004 10:23:29 -0700( From: don.braffitt@hp.com (Don Braffitt)+ Subject: Re: Alpha COBOL Debugger anomolies = Message-ID: <e5c311b8.0410150923.2bd1f821@posting.google.com>   s mcwilliamt@aforbes.co.za (Tom McWilliam) wrote in message news:<34f95bea.0410130048.653b4c48@posting.google.com>... F > completely different location. The only way to find that location isC > to step through the program in the debugger ......... and when it G > suddenly jumps to a totally unexpected location somewhere else in the 3 > program I know I have found what I'm looking for.   1 Which COBOL compilation qualifiers are you using?    - Don Braffitt:   project leader, HP COBOL/SORT for OpenVMS and Tru64 UNIX   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 13:27:02 +0000 (UTC) = From: jlw@psulias.psu.edu (j.lance wilkinson, (814) 865-1818) $ Subject: Re: Command Substitution ??- Message-ID: <ckoj76$p74$1@f04n12.cac.psu.edu>   a >In article <416F2C4E.62275C8D@comcast.net>, David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes:  >>Shanks wrote:  >>>  >>> Hi, : >>>     Do we have a way for command substitution in VMS ? >>> E >>> My query is : Does VMS have an equivalent for this UNIX command ?  >>>  >>> # test=`date`  >> >>See the URL in the .sig:$ >>http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ >>6 >>....and look at the DCL Programming presentation(s).  @ 	All this talk the past few days about "Command Substitution" inC 	VMS vs Unix makes me nostalgic for the "Command Substitution" that  	we had in my old CP-6 days:  C 	Online/interactive execution (XEQ command equivalent to VMS' "@"):   Q 	 ! XEQ Command_File 'compiler' = 'c', 'source' = 'c_source', 'lmn_name' = 'prog'   = 	Batch execution (BATCH command equivalent to VMS' "SUBMIT"):   R 	! BATCH Command_File 'compiler' = 'c', 'source' = 'c_source', 'lmn_name' = 'prog'  C 	Substitute EVERY occurence of ANY string prior to execution either ? 		interactively or in a non-interactive batch stream.  Not just 8 		P1 thru P8, substitutions could be syntactical or even> 		character strings, no limit to the number of them.  No goofy> 		"",'',', or "'''" rules to remember, either.  String matched 		-> string was substituted.  F 	DAMN, I miss that OS.  Put Unix and even VMS to shame.  But it didn'tE 	sell HARDWARE and so Honeywell's salesforce didn't see much value in G 	promoting it.  Last I'd heard, it went (literally) the way of Multics.   P +----"Never Underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of mag tapes"--+B | J.Lance Wilkinson ("Lance")		InterNet:  Lance.Wilkinson@psu.edu < | Systems Design Specialist - Lead	AT&T:      (814) 865-18189 | Digital Library Technologies		FAX:       (814) 863-3560 2 | 3 Paterno Library				"I'd rather be dancing..." B | Penn State University		    A host is a host from coast to coast,K | University Park, PA 16802	    And no one will talk to a host that's close C | <postmaster@psulias.psu.edu>	    Unless the host that isn't close : | EMail Professional since 1978	    Is busy, hung or dead.P +---------"He's dead, Jim. I'll get his tricorder. You take his wallet."-------+9                 [apologies to DeForest Kelley, 1920-1999] 3 <A Href="http://perdita.lcs.psu.edu">home page</a>  J <a Href="http://perdita.lcs.psu.edu/junkdec.htm">junk mail declaration</a> --	/"\ 	\ /	ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN 	 X	AGAINST HTML MAIL  	/ \   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 11:10:01 +0200 ) From: "Usenet" <bruno.seghers@banksys.be> . Subject: DE500 - DE602 and auto-negociate mode6 Message-ID: <416f93ea$0$15601$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>   Hi,   I We have several production systems and we are migrating them to a new lan  with new network equipement.J Network team ask us to set our systems in auto-negociate mode. The network" cards we have are DE500 and DE602. We run OpenVMS 7.3-2.     Are there issues to take care ??   Thanks for help   
 Seghers Bruno  Banksys S.A. Belgium    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 09:52:23 +0000 - From: David B Sneddon <dbsneddon@bigpond.com> 2 Subject: Re: DE500 - DE602 and auto-negociate mode* Message-ID: <416F9DD7.8070207@bigpond.com>   Usenet was overheard to say: > Hi,  > K > We have several production systems and we are migrating them to a new lan  > with new network equipement.L > Network team ask us to set our systems in auto-negociate mode. The network$ > cards we have are DE500 and DE602. > We run OpenVMS 7.3-2.  > " > Are there issues to take care ?? >  > Thanks for help  >  > Seghers Bruno  > Banksys S.A.	 > Belgium   B I have found that it is always best to NOT rely on auto-negotiate.B Decide what you want and configure the switch or whatever to matchA what you have chosen.  I have found that auto-negotiate is NOT my  friend.    Regards, Dave.  --  I David B Sneddon (dbs)    VMS Systems Programmer     dbsneddon@bigpond.com I Sneddo's quick guide ...          http://www.users.bigpond.com/dbsneddon/ I DBS freeware at ...   http://www.users.bigpond.com/dbsneddon/software.htm I "Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans" Lennon    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 13:19:50 GMT # From: "Phil" <dooleys@snowy.net.au> 2 Subject: Re: DE500 - DE602 and auto-negociate mode= Message-ID: <W7Qbd.26700$5O5.2541@news-server.bigpond.net.au>   : "David B Sneddon" <dbsneddon@bigpond.com> wrote in message$ news:416F9DD7.8070207@bigpond.com... > Usenet was overheard to say: > > Hi,  > > I > > We have several production systems and we are migrating them to a new  lan   > > with new network equipement.F > > Network team ask us to set our systems in auto-negociate mode. The network & > > cards we have are DE500 and DE602. > > We run OpenVMS 7.3-2.  > > $ > > Are there issues to take care ?? > >  > > Thanks for help  > >  > > Seghers Bruno  > > Banksys S.A. > > Belgium  > D > I have found that it is always best to NOT rely on auto-negotiate.D > Decide what you want and configure the switch or whatever to matchC > what you have chosen.  I have found that auto-negotiate is NOT my 	 > friend.  SecondedF If the auto-negotiate fails and you get a mismatch between your switchD and the nic, vms tcpip & especially decnet just carry on regardless,A but with heavily degraded performance, as they handle millions of  dropped packets.; Anyway, if you have 100Mbps cards you should be telling the . network team that your switch port is 100Mbps! Phil   ------------------------------   Date: 15 Oct 2004 13:21:26 GMT< From: gartmann@non.immunbio.mpg.de.sens (Christoph Gartmann)2 Subject: Re: DE500 - DE602 and auto-negociate mode0 Message-ID: <ckoism$5cr$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  b In article <416f93ea$0$15601$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>, "Usenet" <bruno.seghers@banksys.be> writes:J >We have several production systems and we are migrating them to a new lan >with new network equipement. K >Network team ask us to set our systems in auto-negociate mode. The network # >cards we have are DE500 and DE602.  >We run OpenVMS 7.3-2. > ! >Are there issues to take care ??   L There are variants of the DE500 (e.g. DE500-XA, DE500-BA,..). We were unableJ to connect the -XA to a 3Com 4400 switch, at least not with 100MB. The -XAO doesn't support autonegotiation, it supports only autodectection. We found that J setting the D500 to fixed values works best and replaced all -XA with -BA.   Regards,    Christoph Gartmann    --  E  Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452   ImmunbiologieI  Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio dot mpg dot de   D-79011  Freiburg, Germany 9                http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/menue.html    ------------------------------    Date: 15 Oct 2004 06:37:20 -0700& From: "Galen" <gspamtackett@yahoo.com>% Subject: DFU for Itanium, or sources? C Message-ID: <1097847440.229214.299170@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>   E I have searched the web for a DFU version for the Itanium but haven't F turned up anything. Is there one available anywhere? Or alternatively, are sources for V3.0 available?   G I tried using the Alpha to Itanium image translator (AEST) and also had B to translate a bunch of shareable images that it needed--mountshr,F dismntshr, and several others. When I ran the translated DFU it got an3 ACCVIO in executive mode and my window disappeared.    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 14:34:54 GMT ! From: Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com> ) Subject: Re: DFU for Itanium, or sources? 8 Message-ID: <8envm01p0ulgt501atu56idqtdtihc9m0b@4ax.com>  F On 15 Oct 2004 06:37:20 -0700, "Galen" <gspamtackett@yahoo.com> wrote:  F >I have searched the web for a DFU version for the Itanium but haven'tG >turned up anything. Is there one available anywhere? Or alternatively,   >are sources for V3.0 available? > H >I tried using the Alpha to Itanium image translator (AEST) and also hadC >to translate a bunch of shareable images that it needed--mountshr, G >dismntshr, and several others. When I ran the translated DFU it got an 4 >ACCVIO in executive mode and my window disappeared.  H AEST does not support translating privileged code. VEST for VAX to Alpha# translated only user mode code too.    -- Nigel Barker Live from the sunny Cote d'Azur    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 06:48:17 GMT ' From: fairwater@gmail.com (Derek Lyons) ' Subject: Re: J F on why USA is a regime 3 Message-ID: <4177724d.2923119@supernews.seanet.com>   B The dictionary challenged (I.E. JF) should note the meaning of the word regime.  / http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=regime   @ Or, to put it simply, every single goverment on this planet is a regime.    D. --  $ Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.  / -Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.  Oct 5th, 2004 JDL    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 13:04:26 GMT # From: "Phil" <dooleys@snowy.net.au> + Subject: Re: Re: J F on why USA is a regime > Message-ID: <uVPbd.26663$5O5.19759@news-server.bigpond.net.au>  6 >> Utter nonsense, of course...but this is the kind of7 > > feeble "reasoning" JF and his elk are reduced to...  >  > JF and his elK?  He does live in Canada :)  Phil   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 13:27:38 -0400 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>' Subject: Re: J F on why USA is a regime , Message-ID: <4170088A.6070901@tsoft-inc.com>   Poor J F wrote:    > J F  M e z e i  wrote: >  >  >>Jeff Hacker wrote: >> >>  >>>JF, stay out of our politics. >>> N >>Then the USA should stay out of other country's politics. As soon as the USaN >>startes to interfere with other countries, then oyher countries have a right# >>to criticise the USA's policies.      G Sure, go ahead.  Some of us believe in freedom of speach, and thoughts.   L >>>and (2) 50% of the country LIKES the President.  (3) in the U.S. we don't0 >>>have a "regime" but rather an administration. >>> K >>The day the USA began its illegal invasion of Iraq, it became a "regime".     L It's even more illegal and a crime against humanity to allow something like K Saddam to remain in power and impose harm on those within and outside Iraq.   N Sadly, seeing the anarchy in Iraq, one starts to sympathize slightly with his K claim of being a 'firm' ruler, until the atrocities such as those his sons   committed are exposed.    N >>The day the USA began to torture prisoners (both from afghanistan and Iraq), >>it became a regime    P Just as "When in Rome", "When in Iraq".  Sorry, I hate any type of torture, but  it just came out.  :-)    O >>The day the USA began to arrest and piut in prison humans residing legally in H >>the USA and detained then for long period without charghe or due legal >>process, it became a regime.    O Agreed!  George has to go.  What he's allowed to happen within the US borders,  P well, I cannot find an adequate word to describe it.  Government lists!  People K like Ted Kennedy (not that I approve of him) and Cat Stevens on government  3 lists!  The land of "papers please" is now the USA.     I >>And as long as the USA continues to abuse military power to attack/kill $ >>civilians in Iraq, it is a regime.    O Civilians?  Show me any.  Why didn't you tug on a few more strings and mention  A women (terrorist factories) and children (terrorist in training)?      >>Need I go on ? >> > . > Nah, just kill yourself and be done with it.  O No, I'd rather he take a stroll through Iraq, and we can take book on how long   he keeps his head.   Dave   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 17:05:39 +0000 (UTC) , From: lewis@PROBE.MITRE.ORG (Keith A. Lewis)" Subject: Re: Laptop as a terminal?. Message-ID: <ckp013$4gp$1@newslocal.mitre.org>   James Nykiel <jnykiel@access4less.net> writes in article <pan.2004.10.13.00.00.57.480679@access4less.net> dated Tue, 12 Oct 2004 17:00:57 -0700:G >I am going to be receiving an AlphaStation 200 4/233 (Thank you Alan!) J >within the next couple of weeks but unfortunately it now appears that the7 >monitor I was planning on using may be on its way out!  > F >I have an IBM ThinkPad X20 laptop running Linux Fedora Core 2 and wasI >wondering if it is possible to somehow use the laptop as a "terminal" so K >that I can install and use OpenVMS until I round up a replacement monitor?  > I >If this is even possible what all do I need to do, buy, or build to make  >it so.   I To use it as a console for setup you'll have to use a serial port, others  have explained how.   H Once you have it set up you can use X-windows over tcpip, or vnc.  OlderL versions of vnc (I use 3.3.6) have key mapping functionality so that you canK set up keys to mean different things in the VMS window than they do to your A Linux windows.  This is really handy if you use EVE, for example.   0 --Keith Lewis              klewis {at} mitre.org> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 14:03:09 +0100 + From: "Tom Wade" <nospam@picard.eurokom.ie> , Subject: Re: Latest on Windoze Navy software2 Message-ID: <jUPbd.37101$Z14.13678@news.indigo.ie>  5 "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message % news:2t83nvF1t1choU1@uni-berlin.de...   - > "It's a poor workman who blames his tools."   G I want to shave with a razor, I'll use a modern safety one, not an open H cut-throat type.  Yes, if I slice my jugular it's my fault, but I'm much) more likely to do so with an unsafe tool.   G > I don't know how to break this too you, but C doesn't have a "string" F > datatype.  There is nothing to prevent anyone from doing strings any< > way they please (like, for instance, the UCSD Pascal way).  E They are not prevented from doing differently, but they are certainly I *encouraged* by the fact that so many of the CRTL (and Unix system calls) K pass string arguments this way.  And, I know C doesn't have a "string" type K but it does pass what people think of as strings as an address of an array, J the end of which is only known when a null byte is encountered. Perhaps ifI it had defined a proper string type like Fortran and Basic, which allowed J the compiler writers to implement pass by descriptor we wouldn't have seen( so many occurrences of this type of bug.  B > Ye, and long after all this was known newer versions of sendmailD > continued to have this problem.  The reason was apathy and not theA > C programming language.  How long ago was the weakness in "null @ > terminated strings" revealed?  Why do we still have them?  Not@ > because of C, but because programmers don't really care.  And,% > apparently neither do their bosses.   B But if a language that did have a string passing mechanism such asJ descriptors was used in the first place, we wouldn't have had so many bugsC to begin with. Your argument seems to be on the lines of "yes, it's J dangerous, but everyone should know about it, and it's their fault if they8 do things the way the compiler and RTL encouraged them".  D > And, as I said, C doesn't have a string data type so why are theseB > problems still around?  Programmer apathy, supervisor apathy and) > acceptance of bad programming practice.   0 On the part of the compiler designers certainly.  # > I can (and have for demonstration D > purposes) write bad programs in COBOL, Pascal, Ada, Java, Fortran.J > Algol, PL/I, etc. etc. etc.  No langauge can stop a prgrammer from being	 > stupid.   H But a sensibly designed language should not actually encourage dangerousJ practice. One can be a dangerous lunatic on the road with any type of car,G but that doesn't mean car safety design is a waste of time.  It's about K reducing the likelihood and limiting the scope of stupidity, not preventing  it altogether.   Tom Wade   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Oct 2004 08:24:46 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) , Subject: Re: Latest on Windoze Navy software3 Message-ID: <8hRRaraPgQV0@eisner.encompasserve.org>   V In article <2t83nvF1t1choU1@uni-berlin.de>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:  D > And, as I said, C doesn't have a string data type so why are these > problems still around?  B    An ANSI C library full of I/O functions that haven't a clue howB    long the user's buffer is.  And since the C library is formally?    part of the C language, that means the fault does indeed lie     in C.   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Oct 2004 08:35:18 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) , Subject: Re: Latest on Windoze Navy software3 Message-ID: <19AvKmu9$vkw@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <416EF105.ED2B8A9D@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > Tom Wade wrote: G >> Yes, you can compensate for this with good programming practice, but M >> interfaces using string descriptors were always a much safer way to do it.  > . > Does any language use descriptors natively ?  D    The Fortran, and I believe COBOL, compilers for VMS certainly do.C    Using descriptors in Macro-32 and -64 is more a matter of choice D    than difficulty, since both have .ascid and can easily manipulate*    descriptors in one or two instructions.  G    Fortran CHARACTER type (which is really a string type) is passed by  G    descriptor, this both meets behaviour specified by the ANSI Fortran  K    standard (required behaviour implies knowing the location and allocated  E    size of CHARACTER variables) and make it easy to interface to VMS  G    routines.  I believe some other Fortran compilers pass CHARACTER as  8    two arguments in order to meet the required behavior.  F    I've never really understood why DEC decided to use counted stringsG    instead of descriptors in PASCAL, other than I think that's what the D    reference model uses.  I think all PASCAL requirements could haveC    been met if strings were passed by descriptor, and it would have D    made the interface to VMS routines as simple as it is in Fortran.          ------------------------------    Date: 15 Oct 2004 08:40:35 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) , Subject: Re: Latest on Windoze Navy software3 Message-ID: <o+BimFcOK9Th@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <$MLBmF6fdLks@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: A > The question is, of all the C programs written, what percentage B > include such a custom definition to achieve the type safety that. > is already built in to high-level languages. > G > While I _could_ engage in safe programming practices just by spending J > more time with C, what assurances do I have that _others_ have done so ?  C   Early releases of Ada had no built-in I/O routines, the Ada folks B   seemed to want the industry to grow its own and settle on a goodF   package.  That was soon corrected as few folks wanted to write thierG   own I/O package on top of OS routines, inevitably not portable beyond    the interface spec.   B   I think just as few folks want to sit down and write thier own CH   I/O library so that they can use thier own C string type.  Much easierE   to start coding in C++ instead, and hope their programmers will use E   a safe string class instead of habitually throwing around arrays of    small integers.    ------------------------------    Date: 15 Oct 2004 08:43:41 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) , Subject: Re: Latest on Windoze Navy software3 Message-ID: <aNeiJdwT65rp@eisner.encompasserve.org>   V In article <2t8h9aF1tmvr6U3@uni-berlin.de>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > 4 > Read my lips.  C does not have a string data type.  G    Almost right.  C does not have string variables or string operators. 1    C does have string constants:   "Hello World".    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 07:05:34 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> , Subject: Re: Latest on Windoze Navy software( Message-ID: <opsfwz3kqrzgicya@hyrrokkin>  , On 15 Oct 2004 08:35:18 -0500, Bob Koehler  0 <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote:  9 > In article <416EF105.ED2B8A9D@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei   ( > <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: >> Tom Wade wrote:H >>> Yes, you can compensate for this with good programming practice, butL >>> interfaces using string descriptors were always a much safer way to do   >>> it.  >>/ >> Does any language use descriptors natively ?  > F >    The Fortran, and I believe COBOL, compilers for VMS certainly do.E >    Using descriptors in Macro-32 and -64 is more a matter of choice F >    than difficulty, since both have .ascid and can easily manipulate, >    descriptors in one or two instructions. > M http://www.kednos.com/pli/docs/REFERENCE_MANUAL/6291pro_021.html#index_x_1019   H >    Fortran CHARACTER type (which is really a string type) is passed byH >    descriptor, this both meets behaviour specified by the ANSI FortranD >    standard (required behaviour implies knowing the location and   > allocated F >    size of CHARACTER variables) and make it easy to interface to VMSH >    routines.  I believe some other Fortran compilers pass CHARACTER as: >    two arguments in order to meet the required behavior. > H >    I've never really understood why DEC decided to use counted stringsI >    instead of descriptors in PASCAL, other than I think that's what the F >    reference model uses.  I think all PASCAL requirements could haveE >    been met if strings were passed by descriptor, and it would have F >    made the interface to VMS routines as simple as it is in Fortran. >  >        --  C Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 10:22:28 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> , Subject: Re: Latest on Windoze Navy software, Message-ID: <416FDD05.A2B33D88@teksavvy.com>   Bob Koehler wrote:D >    An ANSI C library full of I/O functions that haven't a clue howD >    long the user's buffer is.  And since the C library is formallyA >    part of the C language, that means the fault does indeed lie 
 >    in C.  L But instead of using "strcpy", you can use "memcpy" which has no expectation of null terminated stuff.   K Instead of using "%s" in a printf, you can use $.*s and supply it with both  length and address of buffer.   I Instead of scanf("%s"), you can use the "read" statement where you supply L maximum number of bytes to be read into the buffer (no different than $QIO).  M And while people complain about string buffer overruns, the other side of the N coin is that with C, it is fairly easy to have dynamically allocated arrays ofL structures (or whatever) that you can reallocate when you need to grow them.M So in that sense C provides good tools to reduce chances of buffer overruns !   N The issue is that C is a very powerful language designed for "grown ups". WhenJ you give it to windows weenies, they aren't mature enough yet to have some discipline in the code.   M Pascal is a tricycle. Can't fall from it. Good for inexperienced people. C is N like an olympic track racing bike. Light, and allows you to ride at high speedI and bank to go faster in curves. But it lacks brakes because when you are = experienced enough to ride on a track, you don't need brakes.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 10:27:17 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> , Subject: Re: Latest on Windoze Navy software, Message-ID: <416FDE26.75488312@teksavvy.com>   Bob Koehler wrote:F >    The Fortran, and I believe COBOL, compilers for VMS certainly do.  * COBOL does not use descriptors by default.  > CALL "myroutine" USING NAME-TEXT SURNAME-TEXT GIVING mystatus.  E If "myroutine" is written in C, it will get 2 pointers to buffers, no   indication of how long they are.   However:  J CALL "myroutine" USING NAME-TEXT BY DESCRIPTOR SURNAME-TEXT BY DESCRIPTOR  GIVING mystatus.  . will pass 2 pointers to descriptor structures.  M So descriptors are not "native" by default, athought there is a good level of  integration, better than in C.   ------------------------------   Date: 15 Oct 2004 14:50:32 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon), Subject: Re: Latest on Windoze Navy software+ Message-ID: <2ta6doF1snbanU2@uni-berlin.de>   3 In article <02CB4SJgi3AB@eisner.encompasserve.org>, 0 	Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:X > In article <2t8glmF1tmvr6U1@uni-berlin.de>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > L >> Ada program crosses my desk what assurances do I have that the programmerG >> who wrote it didn't make numerous mistakes?  The answer is the same.  > M > You have the assurance the language was not chosen because it is trendy :-)   E Not exactly true, at least within the DOD community.  Originally, DOD C tried to impose Ada for all tasks.  The old one size fits all rule. C Or to use the previous analogy, everything is a nail so lets hit it  with the Ada hammer.  F It is, of course, interesting to note that while the Air Force was oneF of the strongest backers and advocates of the Ada project after it was6 done they were the ones who refused to give up Jovial.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 07:28:02 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> , Subject: Re: Latest on Windoze Navy software( Message-ID: <opsfw040k4zgicya@hyrrokkin>  . On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 10:22:28 -0400, JF Mezei  % <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:    > Bob Koehler wrote:E >>    An ANSI C library full of I/O functions that haven't a clue how E >>    long the user's buffer is.  And since the C library is formally B >>    part of the C language, that means the fault does indeed lie >>    in C.  > D > But instead of using "strcpy", you can use "memcpy" which has no  
 > expectation  > of null terminated stuff.  > J > Instead of using "%s" in a printf, you can use $.*s and supply it with   > both > length and address of buffer.  > K > Instead of scanf("%s"), you can use the "read" statement where you supply I > maximum number of bytes to be read into the buffer (no different than    > $QIO). > J > And while people complain about string buffer overruns, the other side   > of theH > coin is that with C, it is fairly easy to have dynamically allocated   > arrays of J > structures (or whatever) that you can reallocate when you need to grow   > them. F > So in that sense C provides good tools to reduce chances of buffer   > overruns ! > G > The issue is that C is a very powerful language designed for "grown    > ups". WhenI > you give it to windows weenies, they aren't mature enough yet to have    > some > discipline in the code.   G I would not characterize C as a powerful language, but then we probably K have a different understanding of the term.  One of my principal criticisms E of C is that you have to do a lot of housekeeping in your application F code (for example, how long an array of bytes is) which Higher level  	 languages I like PL/I do for you.  So every time you write a program you have include E all this stuff, and of course the tendency will be to do the minimum.    > L > Pascal is a tricycle. Can't fall from it. Good for inexperienced people.   > C isL > like an olympic track racing bike. Light, and allows you to ride at high   > speed K > and bank to go faster in curves. But it lacks brakes because when you are ? > experienced enough to ride on a track, you don't need brakes.        --  C Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/    ------------------------------   Date: 15 Oct 2004 14:47:32 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon), Subject: Re: Latest on Windoze Navy software+ Message-ID: <2ta684F1snbanU1@uni-berlin.de>   3 In article <+DHyy5CYV6xG@eisner.encompasserve.org>, 0 	Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:X > In article <2t8h0sF1tmvr6U2@uni-berlin.de>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > B >> Since I have been at this University I have watched the starterB >> language go from Pascal to Ada to Java with later courses beingA >> done using Modula, C, C++.  The students also get a smattering B >> of COBOL.  You know what.  The beginners make the same mistakes; >> using Java that ehy made using Ada and Pascal before it.  > B > Except that in higher level languages those errors are caught at$ > compile-time rather than run-time.  D Well, I didn't say what those errors were. but as you brought it up.D I have yet to see a compiler that can determine at compile time thatE a bad "for" loop or an index going negative is going cause an out-of- F bounds array reference.  Yes, that is one of the most common mistakes.B The solution is twofold and obvious.  Better control of your logicA and sanity checks.  And we all know how the world looks on sanity @ checks (at least anyone who reads Risks regularly knows how manyF times people have received things like $1,000,000,000 electric bills.)   > K > Exposure to a variety of languages teaches that lesson - using automationg/ > is good for those who don't bill by the hour.   # Don't get either of these comments.E   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 15 Oct 2004 15:33:52 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon), Subject: Re: Latest on Windoze Navy software+ Message-ID: <2ta8v0F1sveq5U2@uni-berlin.de>s  3 In article <8hRRaraPgQV0@eisner.encompasserve.org>,e> 	koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:X > In article <2t83nvF1t1choU1@uni-berlin.de>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > E >> And, as I said, C doesn't have a string data type so why are theset >> problems still around?  > D >    An ANSI C library full of I/O functions that haven't a clue howD >    long the user's buffer is.  And since the C library is formallyA >    part of the C language, that means the fault does indeed lieF
 >    in C.  G Well, I don't much believe in ANSI C, but my K&R doesn't have any placeeI in it where it says the only way to do a string is with a null terminatedeG character array.  So, no, it isn't part of the language.  Of course, ifcF ANSI C defines it differently then we know who is to blame.  But then,+ that's why I don't much like ANSI anything.g   bill  E   -- nJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   l   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Oct 2004 10:39:45 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)r, Subject: Re: Latest on Windoze Navy software3 Message-ID: <rqbG5FVHC1UK@eisner.encompasserve.org>m  V In article <2ta684F1snbanU1@uni-berlin.de>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:5 > In article <+DHyy5CYV6xG@eisner.encompasserve.org>,R2 > 	Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:Y >> In article <2t8h0sF1tmvr6U2@uni-berlin.de>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:0 >> mC >>> Since I have been at this University I have watched the startereC >>> language go from Pascal to Ada to Java with later courses beingeB >>> done using Modula, C, C++.  The students also get a smatteringC >>> of COBOL.  You know what.  The beginners make the same mistakese< >>> using Java that ehy made using Ada and Pascal before it. >> sC >> Except that in higher level languages those errors are caught atd% >> compile-time rather than run-time.t > F > Well, I didn't say what those errors were. but as you brought it up.F > I have yet to see a compiler that can determine at compile time thatG > a bad "for" loop or an index going negative is going cause an out-of--H > bounds array reference.  Yes, that is one of the most common mistakes.  ? It may be a common mistake in C, but not in Ada where one says:j  2     for EACH_CHAR in reverse CHAR_ARRAY'range loop*         if CHAR_ARRAY ( EACH_CHAR ) /= ' '@             return CHAR_ARRAY ( CHAR_ARRAY'first .. EACH_CHAR );         end IF; 
     end loop;e     return CHAR_ARRAY;  B One of the major advantages of higher level languages is providingA natural methods of _not_ shooting yourself in the foot.  It is of ? course possible to pervert the example above by using constantsw. rather than the ' attributes, but why bother ?   ------------------------------   Date: 15 Oct 2004 15:51:21 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon), Subject: Re: Latest on Windoze Navy software+ Message-ID: <2ta9voF1sveq5U4@uni-berlin.de>y  3 In article <aNeiJdwT65rp@eisner.encompasserve.org>,l> 	koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:X > In article <2t8h9aF1tmvr6U3@uni-berlin.de>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >> "5 >> Read my lips.  C does not have a string data type.s > I >    Almost right.  C does not have string variables or string operators.s3 >    C does have string constants:   "Hello World".i  E Fortran IV had string constants and it didn't even have the CHARACTER C data type.  Constants are something totally different.  Oh yeah, asmF long as we're still talking about C, unless you explicitly include theI '\0' at the end of the constant it won't be there so the null termination = is apparently not intrinsic the the concept of a string in C.s  o bill   -- eJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   i   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 12:33:25 +010089 From: Andrew Harrison <andrew_remove__harrison@sun__.com>6D Subject: Re: Let me own OpenVMS and I will destroy the linux market!0 Message-ID: <ckocia$7ia$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   JF Mezei wrote:r* > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: > 4 >>Solaris x86 makes an interesting parallel, compare2 >>and contrast the efforts that Sun has gone to to1 >>attract new ISV's to Solaris x86, could that be'1 >>why we have well over double the available appsa >>on the platform. >  >  > N > Mr Anddrew, since the current policy is for Solaris to exist on two distinctN > platforms, how would you characterize availability of software on both Sparc
 > and 8086 ? - > P > Would the vast majority of ISV provide both versions of the software ? Or doesN > Sparc still have a far greater selection of software than the 8086 ? (or the > other way around) ?c >   ? SPARC still has a much larger SW portfolio than x86 but the gap$A is closing. Seibel for example recently announced that they woulde+ support their apps on x86 as well as SPARC.i  D > Your case is quite different from that of VMS since with VMS, eachP > "coexistence" had been meant to be temporary during a transition (VAX to ALPHAN > to IA64), and due to the owners not pushing VMS, each transition resulted in; > even less software being available on the newer platform.  >   B Well of course but the effort involved in getting ISV's to supportA the platform is the same and in some ways the fact that Sparc and A x86 versions of Solaris are designed to run in parallel with eacht@ other rather than replace each other is a dissadvantage. OpenVMS? ISV's have to port to the next platform if they wish to address @ the OpenVMS market because new systems based on the old platform< will stop arriving, this impetus is not there in the Solaris; space because there is no intention to cut over from one ton
 the other.  P > So I am curious on how ISV treat Solaris existing on 2 platforms at same time.O >  Would serious banking apps exist only on SParc because there is no demand oncP > 8086, or is the porting so easy that even such applications would be available > on the 8086 ?   B Porting is not difficult, qualification and testing is the biggest	 overhead.b   Regardsp Andrew Harrisons   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Oct 2004 08:20:45 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)f. Subject: Re: Logging Serial Connection to File3 Message-ID: <mO24$XoBZFfF@eisner.encompasserve.org>-  d In article <YbWdnV-UhbZhrvLcRVn-qQ@rogers.com>, "Jerry Alan Braga" <jerry.braga@noreply.com> writes:E > where can i find this documentation of opening a serial port in an 5M > application or better yet is there already one out there that does this on m > the freeware >   B    I'd look first in the I/O user's guide.  Some details may be in4    your IP stack's documents if you're using telnet.   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Oct 2004 08:19:34 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)g. Subject: Re: Logging Serial Connection to File3 Message-ID: <f1JDkpq83$7t@eisner.encompasserve.org>   n In article <f30679fb.0410141136.1e38d1fa@posting.google.com>, fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso) writes: > E > Someone must develop  this program and put it in the Freeware CD ! o >   /    Both lines?  (OK, it's _almost_ that small).    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 09:35:21 GMTo) From: simon@stirley.me.uk (Simon Stirley)t) Subject: Re: Newbie question re: accountst2 Message-ID: <416f98f4.1463689794@news.demon.co.uk>  0 On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 13:07:42 -0400, William Webb <webbww@bellsouth.net> wrote:    >Simon Stirley wrote:  [snip] >k' >Are you sure that it's MOUNTED/SYSTEM?o >hG >If you just MOUNT a disk, it's privately mounted, and a SHOW DEVICE D lD >will list the disk, but it'll show up as ONLINE instead of MOUNTED. >m  B Told you I was a newbie :) it was mounted private it seems, that's@ sorted that out ! I still can't read the folder as the 'sa' user5 though, which I think is permissions ? the error is -b  ; '%DIRECT-E-OPENIN, error opening DKA0:[DISK1]*.*;* as inputi@ -RMS-E-PRV, insufficient privilige or file protection violation'  C Can someone tell me how to either give the 'sa' user full access to > the folders on this drive (currently only [disk1] and [disk2],E permission to create/edit stuff on this drive. Or alternately set theeC drive to be globally accessible ? I'm familiar with unix chmod etc, * but can't find an equivalent in openVMS :(   Thanks again, Simon.   >HTH >t >WWWebb    ------------------------------   Date: 15 Oct 2004 10:51:05 GMT+ From: "Doc." <doc.cypher@openvms-rocks.com>0) Subject: Re: Newbie question re: accountsl7 Message-ID: <Xns958382D35227Edcovmsrox@212.100.160.123>   ? %NEWS-I-NEWMSG, Simon Stirley wrote in news:416f98f4.1463689794- @news.demon.co.uke  2 > On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 13:07:42 -0400, William Webb > <webbww@bellsouth.net> wrote:  >  >>Simon Stirley wrote: > [snip] >>( >>Are you sure that it's MOUNTED/SYSTEM? >>H >>If you just MOUNT a disk, it's privately mounted, and a SHOW DEVICE D E >>will list the disk, but it'll show up as ONLINE instead of MOUNTED.s >> > D > Told you I was a newbie :) it was mounted private it seems, that'sB > sorted that out ! I still can't read the folder as the 'sa' user7 > though, which I think is permissions ? the error is -t > = > '%DIRECT-E-OPENIN, error opening DKA0:[DISK1]*.*;* as input B > -RMS-E-PRV, insufficient privilige or file protection violation' > E > Can someone tell me how to either give the 'sa' user full access toh@ > the folders on this drive (currently only [disk1] and [disk2],G > permission to create/edit stuff on this drive. Or alternately set theeE > drive to be globally accessible ? I'm familiar with unix chmod etc,u, > but can't find an equivalent in openVMS :(  J You want to look at SET FILE/PROTECTION for altering the protections on a  file.,  1 SET FILE/OWNER to change the ownership of a file.e  * SET SECURITY/ACL for access control lists.  J But before all that, you want to discover the wonders of the command that   is HELP.  Start with HELP Hints.  F A lot of your upcoming questions are probably answered in the OpenVMS ) FAQ, at http://www.hp.com/go/openvms/FAQ.a     Doc. -- hG OpenVMS:     Eight out of ten hackers prefer *other* operating systems.tG http://www.openvms-rocks.com    Deathrow Public-Access OpenVMS Cluster.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 07:03:53 -0400A- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>-) Subject: Re: Newbie question re: accountsA, Message-ID: <416FAE86.DFA89526@teksavvy.com>   Simon Stirley wrote:D > Told you I was a newbie :) it was mounted private it seems, that'sB > sorted that out ! I still can't read the folder as the 'sa' user7 > though, which I think is permissions ? the error is -t > = > '%DIRECT-E-OPENIN, error opening DKA0:[DISK1]*.*;* as inputoB > -RMS-E-PRV, insufficient privilige or file protection violation'  ! From a privileged account, do a :-    $ DIR/SEC DKA0:[000000]DISK1.DIR  ? This will give you the security setting for the directory file.2  > Is this directory going to be accessed only by the "sa" user ?  H If the answer is yes, one cheape/easy solution (but make sure first) is:  - $SET FILE/LOG/OWNER=sa DKA0:[000000]DISK1.DIR3, $SET FILE/LOG/OWNER=sa DKA0:[]DISK1...]*.*;*  E The first command makes "sa" the owner of the directory file "DISK1"."Q The second command makes all files and subdirectories owned by "sa" under "DISK1":    L However, this command ,may prevent other users from accessing those files if they were capable before.e    K The first DIR/SEC will give you an idea of the current owner as well as the.H current access restrictions, and any ACL (access control lists) that are applied to the directory.   N You really need to figure out if anyone else uses that directory before making any changes.  I You also need to find out if there is a relationship between "sa" and thet( current owner of the directory. You can:   $SET DEF SYS$SYSTEMe
 $MC AUTHORIZE  UAF> SHOW/BRIEF saJ UAF> SHOW/BRIEF owner   (where owner is the owner of the DISK1 directory).  H This will tell you if they are in the same group, or if they have privs.8 (you can remove the /BRIEF to get more detailed listing)  N What you want to look at is the UIC. A number such as [xxx, yyy] where the xxxJ is the group number. If the owner and "sa" and in the same group, it meansI that you could *potentially* give the directory and all files below groupnJ access which means that any user in the same UIC group as the owner of the0 directory would then have access to those files.  2 $SET FILE/LOG/PROT=(g:rwed) DKA0:[000000]DISK1.DIR2 $SET FILE/LOG/OWNER=(g:rwed) DKA0:[]DISK1...]*.*;*  L there are essentially 3 security "classes" of value (there are 4 in reality, but the 4th isn't of use to youe8 		o -> owner  (must match both group and user in the UIC; 		g -> group  (must match the group but not user in the UIC> 		w -> world  (anyonee   Commen access modes: 		r -> readd 		w -> write 		e -> execute
 		d -> delete   J Note that you need read/write privs to the directory file to create/deleteG files inside that directory. You need to have at least read priv to thesS directory file in order to use the DIR command to list files inside that directory.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 07:12:28 -0400 + From: Ken Robinson <kenrbnsn1@patmedia.net>t) Subject: Re: Newbie question re: accountsaA Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20041015070806.061b7408@mail.patmedia.net>   , At 05:35 AM 10/15/2004, Simon Stirley wrote:1 >On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 13:07:42 -0400, William Webb  ><webbww@bellsouth.net> wrote: >s > >Simon Stirley wrote:n >[snip]. > >o) > >Are you sure that it's MOUNTED/SYSTEM?  > >eH > >If you just MOUNT a disk, it's privately mounted, and a SHOW DEVICE DF > >will list the disk, but it'll show up as ONLINE instead of MOUNTED. > >  >FC >Told you I was a newbie :) it was mounted private it seems, that'soA >sorted that out ! I still can't read the folder as the 'sa' user-6 >though, which I think is permissions ? the error is - >0< >'%DIRECT-E-OPENIN, error opening DKA0:[DISK1]*.*;* as inputA >-RMS-E-PRV, insufficient privilige or file protection violation'i >.D >Can someone tell me how to either give the 'sa' user full access to? >the folders on this drive (currently only [disk1] and [disk2],4F >permission to create/edit stuff on this drive. Or alternately set theD >drive to be globally accessible ? I'm familiar with unix chmod etc,+ >but can't find an equivalent in openVMS :(n  & First, on VMS "HELP" is your friend...  5 Sign on to the system with the SYSTEM account.  Then:o" $ def sysuaf sys$system:sysuaf.dat* $ def rightslist sys$system:rightslist.dat, $ mc authorize (or run sys$system:authorize)" uaf> show/fu sa ! post the results uaf> ctrl-z : $ dir/sec dka0:[000000]disk1.dir,disk2  ! post the results   Look at "help set/prot"u   Ken    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 12:56:51 GMTa# From: "Phil" <dooleys@snowy.net.au> ) Subject: Re: Newbie question re: accountsO= Message-ID: <nOPbd.26657$5O5.6175@news-server.bigpond.net.au>i  6 "Simon Stirley" <simon@stirley.me.uk> wrote in message, news:416f98f4.1463689794@news.demon.co.uk...D > Told you I was a newbie :) it was mounted private it seems, that'sB > sorted that out ! I still can't read the folder as the 'sa' user7 > though, which I think is permissions ? the error is -- >-= > '%DIRECT-E-OPENIN, error opening DKA0:[DISK1]*.*;* as inputmB > -RMS-E-PRV, insufficient privilige or file protection violation' > E > Can someone tell me how to either give the 'sa' user full access tou@ > the folders on this drive (currently only [disk1] and [disk2],G > permission to create/edit stuff on this drive. Or alternately set the E > drive to be globally accessible ? I'm familiar with unix chmod etc, , > but can't find an equivalent in openVMS :(A Read up on vms privileges, and use authorize (/priv and /defpriv)o> to give the sa user the privileges required for your database.* (BYPASS priv will certainly get you going)B A good reference point is http://www.sans.org/rr/papers/22/604.pdf8 One commonly used method is to have the database "owned"E by an identifier and then you can "grant" or "revoke" this for users. @ Also ACLs are worthwhile if you set them up right to start with. Phil   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 11:19:43 -0400e, From: "warren sander" <warren.sander@hp.com>" Subject: Re: OpenVMS : New Roadmap, Message-ID: <416febd7$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  H ok, I copied the new pdf over the old one so the link for the pdf should, download the one with all the fonts embeded.  K I think I've reconfigured Acrobat to include all the fonts from now on. [ato least the ones I create]    : "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message- news:M61iu3kotWpQ@eisner.encompasserve.org...d> > In article <416eeb19$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>, "warren sander" <warren.sander@hp.com> writes:
 > > that's > >yZ http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/roadmap/openvms_roadmaps_files/openvms_roadmaps_test.pdf > > no 's' in first roadmap... >oA > That worked fine for me with Acrobat Reader 4.05a on MacOS 9.1.m   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Oct 2004 08:48:00 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)hJ Subject: Re: OT Restrictions on use of Pascal?  Was Latest on Windoze Navy3 Message-ID: <pkGIu6BikbZL@eisner.encompasserve.org>r  V In article <2t8cs5F1sbmt7U1@uni-berlin.de>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:. > In article <416EF509.2070002@tsoft-inc.com>,- > 	David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:a >> g5 >> Maybe their programmers should be better educated?n > D > On this I am sure we agree.  I speak a couple of natural languagesH > because english isn't always the right answer.  The same is definitelyG > true when it comes to computer languages except that in order to be a H > well rounded programmer knowledge (even proficiency) in more than just > a couple is a necessity.  H    Maybe their managers need to be better educated.  I've dealt with tooC    many folks that were looking for someone who can program in "X".i  ?    It's always refeshing to deal with someone who knows severaloB    programming languages and knows that picking up a new one is no    big deal.   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Oct 2004 08:17:41 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)i Subject: Re: OT: IBM Redbooksa3 Message-ID: <q9HwysYCcs6a@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  d In article <mddmzypgj8n.fsf@panix5.panix.com>, Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> writes:? > koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:o > = >>    You're confusing DECSYSTEM with DECsystem.  I had both.e > P > I'm sitting in a room with a DECsystem-1090 and a DECSYSTEM-2065 as I type.  IQ > couldn't remember the capitalization used on the MIPS boxen; I've been aware of5N > the different capitalizations for the -10 and the -20 for nearly 30 years...  C    All my 36 bit systems were DECSYSTEM-20xx.  My MIPS systems wereaH    DECsystem-xxxx and DECstation-xxxx.  I didn't know DECsystem was used?    on -10's.  I don't recall the nameplate on the -10's I used.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 07:16:54 -0700e% From: Joseph <JoeOfSeattle@yahoo.com>a/ Subject: Re: OT: Re: J F on why USA is a regimeg8 Message-ID: <trmvm0995c0n6087h151d3qikrca4pll25@4ax.com>  0 On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 21:17:08 -0400, William Webb <webbww@bellsouth.net> wrote:4   ><snip>m >e4 >Utter nonsense, of course...but this is the kind ofO >> feeble "reasoning" JF and his elk are reduced to...they've nothing but blindr" >> hatred and jealousy for the US. >> r >  >JF and his elK?  C He meant to say JF and his moose.  It's an easy mistake to make.  IrC thought Canadians would be more up on their woodland critters but Id
 guess not.3 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -             V   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 12:21:28 +0100s9 From: Andrew Harrison <andrew_remove__harrison@sun__.com>.& Subject: Re: OT: Sun's fighting chance0 Message-ID: <ckobrr$7b5$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Undisclosed wrote:* > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: >  >> David Svensson wrote: >>= >>> JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message d, >>> news:<415324FC.9DE61861@teksavvy.com>... >>>e8 >>>> You know, this talk about "open" got me thinking... >>>>B >>>> Imagine IF, unhindered by the unwanted port to IA64, the VMS  >>>> engineers hadJ >>>> managed to give VMS a linux compatibility layer, complete with FX32!  >>>> andJ >>>> delivered this FASTER than Sun's equivalent which is expected "soon". >>>s >>>e >>>o >>>eG >>> Sun's solution isn't emulating a CPU. Their Solaris x86 OS will runnC >>> Linux x86 binaries, which isn't exactly rocket science. SimilaraH >>> projects exists in several other operating systems. The question, as4 >>> usual, is how good the support for this will be. >>>aB >> The initial release is targeted at running all the applications6 >> currently qualified for RedHat Advanced Server 2.1. >> >>>eB >>>> The marketing opportunities would have been very interesting. >>>t >>>i >>>r >>>gF >>> Not very, it would just validate the reason that you could run the- >>> software on a real Linux machine instead.k >> >> >>C >> Not really, dtrace for example provides a level of observability A >> for developers and deployers that is unlikely to be replicatedn7 >> by the OpenSource community in the forseable future.  >>D >> And dtrace is only one example of areas where Solaris leads linux2 >> by a very wide margin as a deployment platform. >>= >> Security, resource management, virtualisation, scalability-5 >> and cost for example are also in Solaris's favour.5 >  >  > lol @ security.s > I > anyone who reads security mailing lists knows Sun can't be bothered to aD > patch their applications even an eighth as fast as OSS vendors on  > average, especially Red Hat. >   > Well how about proving some actual examples. Where for example2 are the Solaris Viruses ? to match the Linux ones.  ? > virtualisation, like emulating BSD jails and User-Mode Linux?  >   = So you have never heard of Dynamic domains or for that matter- Solaris workload management ?0  K > Scalability, like running on massive NUMA machines with many hundreds of n > nodes? >   F Really so do you have one single example outside HPC of a single Linux( instance running on a large SMP system ?   Ohh I guess not.  J > Solaris might be able to compete with Linux if the base OS went totally G > open-source, and Sun used an Apple-like strategy to pile proprietary c/ > layers on it to make it Sun's custom Solaris., >   8 Rubbish, dtrace is a perfect example that disproves your@ conjecture. The OpenSource community are largely uninterested inD having observability supported properly in the kernel. In particularD Linus is on record as suggesting that it is unecessary, but the sameB OpenSource community is blown away by what dtrace can do and would like it for Linux.  E dtrace is of course based on a fully instrumented kernel with dynamicdB entirely safe probe points. dprobes for example don't get anywhere> close to the capbility of dtrace mainly because the OpenSource? developers who matter don't see the need for the kernel support D that dprobes would really need to approach the capability of dtrace.  D And Sun has hardly piled proprietary layers on Solaris, in fact hugeA chunks of the stuff that you call proprietary has been donated byr@ Sun to the OpenSource community. Just as an illustration of thisE a tally of the RedHat distribution unearthed the rather extraordinaryhF fact that Sun was the second largest contributor of code to the distroB behind GNU and hugely ironically well ahead of RedHat who you hold& up as a vendor that we should emulate.  D Its no secret why Linux is pretty Solaris like, why it uses PAM, XFND NFS, NIS, etc and thats because of the code donated by Sun and Sun's* insistence on using documented interfaces.  D The reality is that the OpenSource community despite its tendancy toB savage the hand that feeds it is in fact hugely dependant on Sun's@ largess and if Sun became an entity like RedHat for example this1 would be a disaster for the OpenSource community.k    = > there are enough people who would contribute to such an OS.O >   ? Actually you have it arse about face there are in fact not thatd@ many people in the OpenSource community doing kernel engineering= and because of this and because the problems are getting moref? complex the rate of development of the Linux kernel has slowed.f  ? On the other hand there are huge numbers of people contributingcC to apache, OpenOffice, OpenGoupware, GNU etc and with the exception 3 of HURD not one line of this is kernel development.e  A Big projects like dtrac,e ZFS, Greenline or Fireengine which haveuC required a total re-write and for that matter total re-think of theiE way that a filesystem or an IP stack works are still well outside thef@ scope of most OpenSource programs and Sun should know we run andF actively contribute to the largest single program which is OpenOffice.  K > however, if Sun drags it's feet on the issue, or only open-sources token s& > parts, it's going to get swept away.  G Sun is hardly dragging its feet on the issue, we have first to identify'F what we can provide to the OpenSource community that will not leave usI and them liable to litigation. No one wants an IBM style donation policy.a  D But while we work out what is and isn't possible from Solaris itself? we remain the largest by far contibutor of IP to the OpenSourceeA community something that people accusing Sun of dragging its feetr would do well to remember-   Regards- Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------   Date: 15 Oct 2004 08:28:40 GMT< From: gartmann@non.immunbio.mpg.de.sens (Christoph Gartmann)  Subject: RE: Queuename from DCL?0 Message-ID: <cko1no$qk4$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  O In article <6257170@MVB.SAIC.COM>, Kenneth.Robinson@VerizonWireless.com writes:e >> -----Original Message-----G* >> From: gartmann@non.immunbio.mpg.de.sens >> Subject: Queuename from DCL?t >>   >>  	 >> Hello,  >> r> >> from within a DCL procedure I need to know the name of the  >> queue where the? >> procedure is running in. How would I do this? I am aware of   >> F$QETQUI but thisI >> looks a bit overcomplicated for this simple question. Any other ideas?t >gD >How is "f$getqui("DISPLAY_QUEUE","QUEUE_NAME","*","THIS_JOB")" over
 >complicated?-  G Oops, sorry, I wasn't aware of "THIS_JOB". Thanks to all who responded.n   Regards,    Christoph Gartmannn   -- vE  Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452<  ImmunbiologieI  Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio dot mpg dot de   D-79011  Freiburg, Germany@9                http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/menue.html    ------------------------------    Date: 15 Oct 2004 06:43:36 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) Subject: suns big mistake ... < Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0410150543.8deb0fe@posting.google.com>  7 was to come down with a case of NIH (not invented here)a6 syndrome when Palmer at DEC was offering alpha and vms8 for sale.  Just think Andrew, if sun would have put that4 small stash of cash to good use and bought alpha and4 vms, they could have ruled the IT world ... now they2 are just another oopsteron peddlar on the brink of# bankruptcy ... not good ceo vision!d   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 10:02:27 -0400u5 From: "rob kas" <droprob@nospam-paychoice.com-nospam> ! Subject: Re: suns big mistake ...a0 Message-ID: <10mvm3c9qbrasa3@corp.supernews.com>  6 "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message 6 news:d7791aa1.0410150543.8deb0fe@posting.google.com...9 > was to come down with a case of NIH (not invented here) 8 > syndrome when Palmer at DEC was offering alpha and vms: > for sale.  Just think Andrew, if sun would have put that6 > small stash of cash to good use and bought alpha and6 > vms, they could have ruled the IT world ... now they4 > are just another oopsteron peddlar on the brink of% > bankruptcy ... not good ceo vision!i    .            Yeah and Carly got great vision tooK             HP is just a IA64 vender at the Mercy of Intel not shooting it.e    '                                    Rob     ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 17:31:30 +0200 : From: "Alexandre Mongin" <NOSPAM_alexandre.mongin@csgv.fr>' Subject: SYSUAF => export passwords ???u* Message-ID: <ckoqh8$757$1@news.tiscali.fr>   Hi !  G I would like to export all user's passwords stored in the sysuaf from aaL first machine up to a second one, where the accounts are already existing...  1 Is this possible through DCL or some free tools ?p  J In other words, would it be possible to synchronize the passwords from one machine with the other ?     Thanks in advance !y   Alexandre M.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 10:34:21 -0400d- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>i) Subject: Usable snapshot of a DEcwindow ? , Message-ID: <416FDFCD.AE18FCAA@teksavvy.com>  K With DECwindows (VAX), what is the best way to take a "picture" of a colourwI window, and turn it into a usage format (TIFF, PICS, JPEG,.GIF PNG etc ?)i  9 Now quite sure what the "WINDOW DUMP" (xwd) utility does.l  I There is a print screen utility (Print screen) which allows you to crop aOL single window instead of the whole screen and then have the output sent to aK DDIF format file. However, I have not been able to convert DDIF to a usableh format (using CDA converters).  K I could produce a TIFF file, it but turns out unusable on a MAC (either all N black or complain about invalid bit depth). The PICT converter crashes. The PSL output seems to work, but when I rasterize it on Photoshop, the image is not of usable quality.  E Is there anything that can convert DDIF images to something usable ? nM Is there anything that can replace teh "print screen" function and output thee image in a usable format ?   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 15:02:38 GMT-F From: lederman@star.enet.dec.DISABLE-JUNK-EMAIL.com (Bart Z. Lederman)- Subject: Re: Usable snapshot of a DEcwindow ?c/ Message-ID: <iERbd.925$fD.777@news.cpqcorp.net>   D There is a (public domain, freeware, or something like that) programH called "xv" which runs on OpenVMS (and many other systems) that displaysF a variety of graphics formats.  One thing it can do is take a snapshotG of a window.  I've used it to grab windows and save them as GIF or JPEGnF (or a variety of other formats) for inclusion in presentations.  ThereC should still be a VAX version out on the net, or check the FreewareC collections.     -- g(  B. Z. Lederman   Personal Opinions Only  8  Posting to a News group does NOT give anyone permission8  to send me advertising by E-mail or put me on a mailing  list of any kind.  5  Please remove the "DISABLE-JUNK-EMAIL" if you have at5  legitimate reason to E-mail a response to this post.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 11:34:07 -0400e$ From: Mike Duffy <Duffy@process.com>- Subject: RE: Usable snapshot of a DEcwindow ?uJ Message-ID: <63D30D6E10CFD11190A90000F805FE8605AED224@lespaul.process.com>   > -----Original Message-----6 > From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com]) > Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 10:34 AMo > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coma+ > Subject: Usable snapshot of a DEcwindow ?  >  > 8 > With DECwindows (VAX), what is the best way to take a  > "picture" of a colouru7 > window, and turn it into a usage format (TIFF, PICS, a > JPEG,.GIF PNG etc ?) > ; > Now quite sure what the "WINDOW DUMP" (xwd) utility does.  > > > There is a print screen utility (Print screen) which allows  > you to crop a  > single window [...]  > The PS> > output seems to work, but when I rasterize it on Photoshop,  > the image is not > of usable quality.  : I have used "print screen" to capture the entire screen or9 portions thereof, and output to .PS.  From there, I used l? Paint Shop Pro on a PC to manipulate the images.  The resultionv; was quite good.  If I recall, the Paint Shop Pro .PS readern= (a separate importer that seems not to be part of PSP itself)s< had an adjustable resolution that could be tinkered with at > read time.  I turned mine way up.  I did notice one curiosity:? The PSP image created by this method had large borders of blankt: space that had to be cropped.  In many cases, the captured? image took up only a few percent of the total image.  The rest wA was blank space.  After cropping, however, the resultion remainedl
 very good.  
 Mike Duffy   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 09:48:13 GMT ) From: simon@stirley.me.uk (Simon Stirley)h< Subject: Re: VMS related water bound powerful mammal artwork2 Message-ID: <416f9cc5.1464666579@news.demon.co.uk>  3 On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 06:57:36 +0200, Alex van DenzelI <vandenzel@hotmail.com> wrote:   >JF Mezei wrote: > " >> blablabla *THE* shark blablabla >e; >Whales are mammals. Dolphins are mammals. Sharks are fish.  >   8 .. most closely related to the Ray family, apparently ..   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 07:06:15 -0400a- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>n< Subject: Re: VMS related water bound powerful mammal artwork, Message-ID: <416FAF14.5C67A09E@teksavvy.com>   Simon Stirley wrote:= > >Whales are mammals. Dolphins are mammals. Sharks are fish.e > >- > : > .. most closely related to the Ray family, apparently ..  M Ok, first, sorry for having made such a <6 letter word that starts with s andcJ ends in tupid> mistake. Secondly, you are right, Sharks and Rays are quite closely related.  H But now, back to topic: what sort of file formats does the VMS community" use/accept for artwork/logos etc ?   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Oct 2004 05:32:25 -0700% From: Bart.Zorn@xs4all.nl (Bart Zorn)a< Subject: Re: VMS related water bound powerful mammal artwork= Message-ID: <a98cd882.0410150432.7693a4c9@posting.google.com>g  A Well, if one wants to use it with CDE, I don't think any of theseaD formats will work. Have a look at DECW$SYSTEM_DEFAULTS:DECDTLOGO.PM, it is in text format!t   Regards,  	 Bart Zornh  a JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message news:<416F4CA1.BBFE3037@teksavvy.com>...aH > In the theoretical scenario where I would have an imaginary friend whoO > happened to have *THE* shark in vector format (resizeable, can change coloursrP > etc), and such imaginary friend wanted to make that shark available to the VMSN > community since it seems to be the de-facto logo to compete against the evilP > penguin, what would be the best format to distribute this so that it is usable > by the VMS community ? > 	 > PICT ?   > DXF ?  > EPS ?  > Freehand ? > Illustrator ?A   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 06:37:31 -0700i# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> < Subject: Re: VMS related water bound powerful mammal artwork( Message-ID: <opsfwystgszgicya@hyrrokkin>  . On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 07:06:15 -0400, JF Mezei  % <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:O   > Simon Stirley wrote:> >> >Whales are mammals. Dolphins are mammals. Sharks are fish. >> > >>; >> .. most closely related to the Ray family, apparently ..a >cK > Ok, first, sorry for having made such a <6 letter word that starts with  s > s and(H > ends in tupid> mistake. Secondly, you are right, Sharks and Rays are   > quiteu > closely related. >eJ > But now, back to topic: what sort of file formats does the VMS community$ > use/accept for artwork/logos etc ?  I Do it in all flavors, in fact, if you do, I will stick it on our site foro sundry to download.h   -- nC Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/a   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Oct 2004 08:50:07 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) < Subject: Re: VMS related water bound powerful mammal artwork3 Message-ID: <63IUULr9jwg1@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  \ In article <416F4CA1.BBFE3037@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:H > In the theoretical scenario where I would have an imaginary friend whoO > happened to have *THE* shark in vector format (resizeable, can change colours P > etc), and such imaginary friend wanted to make that shark available to the VMSN > community since it seems to be the de-facto logo to compete against the evilP > penguin, what would be the best format to distribute this so that it is usable > by the VMS community ? > 	 > PICT ? M > DXF ?e > EPS ?r > Freehand ? > Illustrator ?r  B    Both .gif and .jpg formats are commonly useable on VMS systems.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 10:08:47 -0400s- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>o< Subject: Re: VMS related water bound powerful mammal artwork, Message-ID: <416FD9D1.B8D9ADAD@teksavvy.com>   Bart Zorn wrote: > C > Well, if one wants to use it with CDE, I don't think any of theseeF > formats will work. Have a look at DECW$SYSTEM_DEFAULTS:DECDTLOGO.PM, > it is in text format!   J Since the artwork is in vector format, it allows it to be resized, coloursA changed etc and then rasterized into the proper size and format.    M So if anyone needs to use the shark for a logo on a web site, it is better torM start from the vector format and then play with it until proper size and theni/ generate the output format needed for the task.M   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 15:04:52 GMTrF From: lederman@star.enet.dec.DISABLE-JUNK-EMAIL.com (Bart Z. Lederman)< Subject: Re: VMS related water bound powerful mammal artwork/ Message-ID: <oGRbd.927$fD.765@news.cpqcorp.net>l  B Illustrator (which is really EPS, but in a format which Adobe will? accept) appears to be the most interchangeable format that I've  encountered for vector art.n   -- u(  B. Z. Lederman   Personal Opinions Only  8  Posting to a News group does NOT give anyone permission8  to send me advertising by E-mail or put me on a mailing  list of any kind.  5  Please remove the "DISABLE-JUNK-EMAIL" if you have ai5  legitimate reason to E-mail a response to this post.e   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Oct 2004 07:23:07 -0500B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)A Subject: [OT] C and Ada, was: Re: Latest on Windoze Navy softwares3 Message-ID: <LfkT2w5tNCp2@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  \ In article <416EF081.516A8249@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > About C versus ADA.e > N > When I moved from VAX C to DEC C, I complained about how pedantic the ANSI CK > compiler really was. I got used to it and went from fighting its pedantic.* > complaints to working with the compiler. >   C If you think that DEC C is pedantic, try using an Ada compiler. :-)m  M > C has been accused of a lot, but I am curious as to specifics that make theg  > current C compiler inadequate. > O > (yes, I know about the null terminated string issue, but that isn't so much atJ > compiler issue, and is even less of an issue when you use descriptors to  > interface to system services.) > K > So what types of errors does the C compiler not find that other compilers  > would find ?  H My impression of DEC C is that, for a C compiler, it has very good error- detection and emits very good error messages.B  H BTW, for anyone interested in getting a feeling for the features offered2 by Ada, the following tutorial may be of interest:  @ http://www.adaic.org/docs/distilled/adadistilled.pdf	(about 1MB)   Simon.   -- aB Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       7 Microsoft: The Standard Oil Company of the 21st centurya   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.573 ************************