1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 29 Oct 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 600       Contents:) Re: ANN: VTfm and HINDEX freeware updates * forcing session from limbo to disconnectedK OT: Large test tunnels - was RE: Rumour is HP may spin off printer business  Re: OT: Short Article about Sun  Re: OT: Short Article about Sun . Re: Rumour is HP may spin off printer business. Re: Rumour is HP may spin off printer business. Re: Rumour is HP may spin off printer business. Re: Rumour is HP may spin off printer business. Re: Rumour is HP may spin off printer business. Re: Rumour is HP may spin off printer business. Re: Rumour is HP may spin off printer business. Re: Rumour is HP may spin off printer business. Re: Rumour is HP may spin off printer business. Re: Rumour is HP may spin off printer business Re: Suggestion for TPU: revert  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 28 Oct 2004 13:47:37 -0700 From: vershinin-vk@mtu-net.ru 2 Subject: Re: ANN: VTfm and HINDEX freeware updates= Message-ID: <b587d953.0410281247.771d1f74@posting.google.com>   b Mike Rechtman <michael.rechtman.nospam@hp.com> wrote in message news:<4180F87A.7E6BBE13@hp.com>...  > vershinin-vk@mtu-net.ru wrote: > > z > > Mike Duffy <Duffy@process.com> wrote in message news:<63D30D6E10CFD11190A90000F805FE8605AED241@lespaul.process.com>..." > > > > -----Original Message-----A > > > > From: David J Dachtera [mailto:djesys.nospam@comcast.net] / > > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 8:54 PM ! > > > > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com : > > > > Subject: Re: ANN: VTfm and HINDEX freeware updates > > > >  > > > >  > > > > Hunter Goatley wrote: 
 > > > > [...]  > > > > >     - HINDEX	 > > > > > B > > > > >       HINDEX search OpenVMS HELP libraries for keywords.D > > > > >       Thanks to Mike Duffy.  This version includes changesB > > > > >       to compile and run on OpenVMS IA64, in addition to > > > > >       VAX and Alpha. > > > > M > > > > That sounds like it could be the core of a "whatis" facility for VMS. K > > > > UN*X folks would be more at home with that than simply browsing the  > > > > on-line help.  > > > >  > > > A > > > Thanks for the idea.  Hunter and I are currently looking to D > > > update the entire archive, if possible, for IA64.  When that'sA > > > closer to finished, I'll come back to this one and see what  > > > it would take to do that.  > > >  > > > -Mike Duffy  > >  > > Hello, David!  > > C > > When I was developing the VTfm I assumed that any computer prof G > > familiar with Norton Commander for PC or any similar program, where H > > function keys are standard now. So, F3 - View, F4 - Edit, F5 - Copy,A > > F6 - RenMov, F7 - MkDir, F8 - Delete, F10 - Quit. In VTfm for J > > VT-series terminals we have: F13 - View (invoke TPU in readonly mode),E > > F14 - Edit (invoke TPU in edit mode), F15(Help) - Copy, F16(Do) - J > > RenMov, F17 - MkDir, F18 - Delete, F20 - Quit. The analogy is obvious!I > > The differences are: F11 - GotoVMS (create a subprocess for work with C > > DCL, but you can use and VTfm command line), F12 - GotoDir (set D > > default the new directory), F19 - description of many other VTfm > > function keys. > >  > > Best Regards,  > > Vladimir Vershinin > > vershinin-vk@mtu-net.ru  > A > re VTfm (the only change I made to vtfm.com was to cut out "set  > noverif:")
 > _$@vtfm.com  > $!set noverify > $!# > $ arch_name=f$getsyi("ARCH_NAME")  > $!) > $ mac/nodebug/object=FSPEC_PT.VAX_OBJ - 0 >                         [.SRC]FSPEC_PT.VAX_MAR > $!0 > $ cc/nodebug/object=VTFM.VAX_OBJ  [.SRC]VTFM.C, >                 struct  utsname sys_names;# >         ........................^ I > %CC-E-INCOMPNOLINK, In this declaration, "sys_names" has no linkage and  > is of  >  an incomplete type.' >                 At line number 830 in - > DKA200:[RECHTMAN.MYPROGS.VTFM.SRC]VTFM.C;1.  > $ >                 uname(&sys_names); >         ........^ B > %CC-I-IMPLICITFUNC, In this statement, the identifier "uname" is > implicitly >  declared as a function.' >                 At line number 863 in - > DKA200:[RECHTMAN.MYPROGS.VTFM.SRC]VTFM.C;1.  >  >         } * > %VCG-I-NOBJECT, No object file produced.( >                 At line number 5646 in- > DKA200:[RECHTMAN.MYPROGS.VTFM.SRC]VTFM.C;1.  > > > %VCG-I-SUMMARY, Completed with 1 error(s), 0 warning(s), and+ >                 2 informational messages. ( >                 At line number 5646 in- > DKA200:[RECHTMAN.MYPROGS.VTFM.SRC]VTFM.C;1.  >   
 > --      / > VAXstation 4000-60, hardware model type 236,   > Compaq C      V6.4-005 > OpenVMS V6.2   > --  G > --------------------------------------------------------------------- G > Usual disclaimer: All opinions are mine alone, perhaps not even that. A > Mike Rechtman                            *rechtman@tzora.co.il* H > Kibbutz Tzor'a.                          Voice (home): 972-2-9908337  D >   "20% of a job takes 80% of the time, the rest takes another 80%"G > --------------------------------------------------------------------- ! > -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----  > Version: 3.1< > GCM/CS d(-)pu s:+>:- a++ C++ U-- L-- W++ N++ K? w--- V+++$8 > PS+ PE-- t 5? X- tv-- b+ DI+ D-- G e++ h--- r+++ y+++@! > ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------   
 Dear Mike!  B This is not a bug. I also use Compaq C v6.4-005, but OpenVMS v7.3.A Structure utsname and C-function uname was introduced in CRTL for A OpenVMS 7.0. Now I modify VTfm code so, that it will not use this 6 feature. After that I will submit new VTFM.ZIP to your rechtman@tzora.co.il.   ( Many thanks for your test of my program! Vladimir Vershinin   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Oct 2004 16:09:45 -05004 From: kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow)3 Subject: forcing session from limbo to disconnected 3 Message-ID: <EDvctgPEEwT8@eisner.encompasserve.org>   L Occasionally either a PC crash or a network burp will cause a TELNET sessionJ or sessions to go into a sort of limbo state. Eventually VMS/TCPIP noticesK something is wrong, and places the session in a DISCONNECTED state, so that E I can reconnect to it. But the amount of time it takes to end up in a  DISCONNECTED varies wildly.   L I've seen this behavior on VMS 7.1-2 UCX 4.2, on VMS 7.3-2 TCPIP 5.4, and onL whatever EISNER is running (7.2 and Multinet?). At my old job, we would haveI an occasional network glitch that would put 300 interactive sessions into J this state at once. When all the users tried to log back in, we either ranL out of process slots or memory. I wrote a script that was able to find these jobs and STOP/ID them.  G 1) What controls the time it takes to be detected as DISCONNECTED? [NOT L TTY_TIMEOUT, which controlls how long it stays disconnected before VMS kills it]   C 2) Is there some way to force the process into a DISCONNECTED state , immediately so the user can reconnect to it?  6 What I would like to see eventually is something like    $ DISCONNECT /TERM=VTA73    or perhaps    $ DISCONNECT /ID=000015B1     1 	Bob Kaplow	NAR # 18L	TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" & 		>>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<<K Kaplow Klips & Baffle:	http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf L     www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/    www.nira-rocketry.org    www.nar.org  1 	26-October, 2001: A day that will live in infamy 4 	Support Freedom: http://www.indefenseoffreedom.org/  ? 	Voting for "the lesser of two evils" is still voting for evil.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 16:16:09 -0400 # From: "Dan Allen" <dallen@nist.gov> T Subject: OT: Large test tunnels - was RE: Rumour is HP may spin off printer business: Message-ID: <JFEPKAPBPMDFDBOIANGDIEMLFLAA.dallen@nist.gov>   > -----Original Message-----0 > From: David Mathog [mailto:mathog@caltech.edu]* > Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2004 3:03 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 9 > Subject: Re: Rumour is HP may spin off printer business  >  >  > CJT wrote: > > John Smith wrote: 
 > > <snip> > > I > >> Hey Keith, I also saw the news today about SGI and Intel built a big M > >> supercomputer at Nasa Ames.......they had to build it there...it was the . > >> only place with a big enough cooling fan. > >> > >>, > > I assume it has its own substation, too. > >  >  > ROTFLMAO.  > I > For those of you who have never been to Ames research center, they have D > the biggest wind tunnel you're likely ever to see.  Hint, it's the< > humongous building you visible as you drive by on the 101. > + > Here are some pictures inside the tunnel:  > % >    http://windtunnels.arc.nasa.gov/  > 
 > Regards, >  > David Mathog > mathog@caltech.edu  L From a former life - another rather large test facility - visible from I-495= just outside Wasgington DC as you cross the Potomac (MD->VA):   A http://www.dt.navy.mil/our_capabilities/facilities/5001/5001.html   M Also does double duty as an indoor practice facility for the US Olympic Kayak P team from time to time and has hired out to at least one US America's Cup design2 team. A balmy 70 deg, 100% humidity year round ;-)   Dan  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 12:43:38 -0400 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>( Subject: Re: OT: Short Article about Sun, Message-ID: <418121BA.2030305@tsoft-inc.com>   Andrew Harrison wrote:   > David Froble wrote:  >  >> Andrew Harrison wrote:  >> >> >>> So how about security ?  >> >> >>G >> Highly humorous!  Now Andy Boy is playing the 'security' card.  Yet  I >> when a VMS person, other than boob, mentions security, Andy Boy sings   >> a different tune. >>< > Not really David was touting Linux, Solaris IS more secure
 > than Linux.     $ And VMS is more secure than Solaris.  F It appears that you embrace security only when it's to your advantage.     Dave   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------    Date: 28 Oct 2004 22:46:04 -0700' From: icerq4a@spray.se (David Svensson) ( Subject: Re: OT: Short Article about Sun= Message-ID: <734da31c.0410282146.320ca860@posting.google.com>   q Andrew Harrison <andrew_remove__harrison@sun__.com> wrote in message news:<clr44l$pol$2@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...  > David Svensson wrote: u > > Andrew Harrison <andrew_remove_.harrison@s_u_n.com> wrote in message news:<clb95p$fjs$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...  >  > > 7 > >>>>on a 2-4 way box then there will always be a need & > >>>>for something better than Linux. > >>> G > >>>That's a laugh, even though Solaris may scale a little better now, E > >>>there is good evidence that the Linux of today can scale good to K > >>>32-way on commericial workloads. SGI is also doing a tremendous job on C > >>>Linux kernel scalability. Next year Linux will be even better.  > >>>  > >>A > >>So provide some actual numbers that support your claim. Don't A > >>use anything from SGI we are talking commercial workloads not @ > >>embarassingly parallel HPC and don't include RAC for obvious > >>reasons. > >> > >  > > ! > > NEC 32-way TPC-C 683,575 tpmC  > > 5 > > http://www.spec.org/cpu2000/results/rint2000.html  > > 3 > > SGI SGI Altix 3000 (1500MHz, Itanium 2) 32 447  3 > > SGI SGI Altix 3000 (1500MHz, Itanium 2) 64 854  C > > SGI SGI Altix 3000 (1500MHz, Itanium 2) 128 cores, 128 chips, 1  > > core/chip 1721 > > A > > Fujitsu Limited PRIMEPOWER900 (1890MHz) 16 cores, 16 chips, 1  > > core/chip  202 233B > > Fujitsu Limited PRIMEPOWER1500 (1890MHz) 32 cores, 32 chips, 1 > > core/chip 370 426  > > . > > Sun Microsystems Sun Fire 12K 32  206 232 . > > Sun Microsystems Sun Fire 15K 64  390 436 H > > Sun Microsystems Sun Fire E6900 (16 processor) 32 cores, 16 chips, 2 > > cores/chip 180 204H > > Sun Microsystems Sun Fire E6900 (16 processor) 32 cores, 16 chips, 2 > > cores/chip 204 230G > > Sun Microsystems Sun Fire E25K (32 processor) 64 cores, 32 chips, 2  > > cores/chip 390 437H > > Sun Microsystems Sun Fire E25K (64 processor) 128 cores, 64 chips, 2 > > cores/chip 715 791 > > / > > Although these figures may not satisfy you, G > > Saying that Linux will never scale beyond 4-way is just plain dumb.  > >  > < > Ohh really understand the benchmark you are touting before% > coming out with such absolute tosh.   I I do understand the benchmarks, I know SpecINT isn't the perfect example. < TPC-C is pretty good example that Linux can scale to 32-way.0 You are free to provide any public benchmarks...  K I also still think saying that Linux will never scale beyond 4-way is dumb.    > > G > >>>Solaris has an advantage in RAS over Linux today, that is where it E > >>>excels Linux on something that people care about. IBM, and other G > >>>companies are though on their way to make the RAS better on Linux.  > >>8 > >>Really, so Linux has something that it equivalent to* > >>greenline and dtrace, how interesting. > >> > >>So how about security ?  > >  > > ! > > Yeah, what about security. ;)  > >  > 1 > Well if you don't know the answer should you be  > posting ?    I don't know...   I I think Solaris has better security, but the difference is not that huge.    > > 9 > >>Or performance for that matter, Solaris 10 absolutely = > >>trashes Linux on network throughput because of fireengine  > >>on the same hardware.  > >  > > A > > Perhaps, have not seen this. Solaris 10 is not even released.  > > 3 > Get the Software Express download thousands have.   ) When it is released I will give it a try.    > > < > >>If I was you I would get on the Software Express Program= > >>for Solaris 10 and try it on an x86 box, let me know what * > >>you think. Should be very interesting. > >  > > G > > Solaris 10 may have a few good points, but I prefer to use released 
 > > software.  > B > Like Linux, get a grip, when many of the core utilites are still? > on their .8 or .9 version then calling something a "released" A > software product is rather more window dressing than substance.   O OK, so you say that companies are OK to run the current unreleased Solaris 10 ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 12:03:14 -0700 ' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> 7 Subject: Re: Rumour is HP may spin off printer business * Message-ID: <clrfpj$bh$1@naig.caltech.edu>  
 CJT wrote: > John Smith wrote:  > <snip> > G >> Hey Keith, I also saw the news today about SGI and Intel built a big K >> supercomputer at Nasa Ames.......they had to build it there...it was the , >> only place with a big enough cooling fan. >> >>* > I assume it has its own substation, too. >   	 ROTFLMAO.   G For those of you who have never been to Ames research center, they have C the biggest wind tunnel you're likely ever to see.  Hint, it's the  : humongous building you visible as you drive by on the 101.  ) Here are some pictures inside the tunnel:   #    http://windtunnels.arc.nasa.gov/    Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Oct 2004 14:30:20 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 7 Subject: Re: Rumour is HP may spin off printer business 3 Message-ID: <RWINoW94PKt6@eisner.encompasserve.org>   T In article <clrfpj$bh$1@naig.caltech.edu>, David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> writes:  I > For those of you who have never been to Ames research center, they have E > the biggest wind tunnel you're likely ever to see.  Hint, it's the  < > humongous building you visible as you drive by on the 101.  & I thought that was a dirigible hanger.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 23:20:26 +0200   From: "Dr. Dweeb" <dr@dweeb.com>7 Subject: Re: Rumour is HP may spin off printer business - Message-ID: <clrnqs$1jgi$1@news.cybercity.dk>   
 CJT wrote: > John Smith wrote:  > <snip>G >> Hey Keith, I also saw the news today about SGI and Intel built a big G >> supercomputer at Nasa Ames.......they had to build it there...it was 0 >> the only place with a big enough cooling fan. >> >>* > I assume it has its own substation, too.  K I wondered about that too.  10K processors at what 150W (?) .  A non trival  power supply is called for :-)  	 Dr. Dweeb    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 14:27:09 -0700 ' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> 7 Subject: Re: Rumour is HP may spin off printer business + Message-ID: <clro7d$3bj$1@naig.caltech.edu>    Larry Kilgallen wrote:V > In article <clrfpj$bh$1@naig.caltech.edu>, David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> writes: >  > I >>For those of you who have never been to Ames research center, they have E >>the biggest wind tunnel you're likely ever to see.  Hint, it's the  < >>humongous building you visible as you drive by on the 101. >  > ( > I thought that was a dirigible hanger.  + The wind tunnel is in the big boxy building 0 that sort of tails off to one side but otherwise looks a bit like a warehouse.      Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 21:32:23 GMT 1 From: Keith Parris <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> 7 Subject: Re: Rumour is HP may spin off printer business 2 Message-ID: <Hzdgd.1847$za1.1187@news.cpqcorp.net>   John Smith wrote: 4 > HP is #1 in Linux servers? How'd she figure that.   G IDC Quarterly Server Tracker data confirms this: in fact, IDC data for  @ Q2FY04 says HP sold close to twice as much Linux as the closest H competitor, Dell. HP had revenues of $2.5 Billion in the Linux space in E 2003 -- see http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/2004/040115a.html   B If it keeps growing this fast, it could actually catch up to HP's  OpenVMS revenues. :-)   F > Hey Keith, I also saw the news today about SGI and Intel built a big > supercomputer at Nasa Ames.   H Yep. See http://www.arc.nasa.gov/aboutames-pressrelease.cfm?id=10000087 G and http://news.zdnet.co.uk/hardware/servers/0,39020363,39161899,00.htm    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 15:09:38 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> 7 Subject: Re: Rumour is HP may spin off printer business ( Message-ID: <opsglo6cmvzgicya@hyrrokkin>  G On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 12:03:14 -0700, David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu>    wrote:   > CJT wrote: >> John Smith wrote:	 >> <snip>  >>H >>> Hey Keith, I also saw the news today about SGI and Intel built a bigJ >>> supercomputer at Nasa Ames.......they had to build it there...it was   >>> the - >>> only place with a big enough cooling fan.  >>>  >>> + >> I assume it has its own substation, too.  >> >  > ROTFLMAO.  > I > For those of you who have never been to Ames research center, they have F > the biggest wind tunnel you're likely ever to see.  Hint, it's the  < > humongous building you visible as you drive by on the 101.  J The big building you see when you drive past, was a hangar for dirigibles. > + > Here are some pictures inside the tunnel:  > % >    http://windtunnels.arc.nasa.gov/  > 
 > Regards, >  > David Mathog > mathog@caltech.edu       --  C Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 20:04:06 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 7 Subject: Re: Rumour is HP may spin off printer business , Message-ID: <418188EE.BD595AFD@teksavvy.com>   Bob Koehler wrote:H >    Much better to spin off he money loosing PC business under the name? >    Compaq and keep the profitable business under the name HP.   L Nop. Spinning off the PC business would be tantamount to Carly admitting sheM has been unable to fix the problems of the PC business to make it competitive  with Dell.    L Carly's ego is way too important for her own carreer, and she'd rather admitT that IA64 was a big msitake than admitting she is unable to fix the wintel business.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 17:15:41 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> 7 Subject: Re: Rumour is HP may spin off printer business ( Message-ID: <opsglu0fttzgicya@hyrrokkin>  . On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 20:04:06 -0400, JF Mezei  % <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:    > Bob Koehler wrote:I >>    Much better to spin off he money loosing PC business under the name @ >>    Compaq and keep the profitable business under the name HP. > L > Nop. Spinning off the PC business would be tantamount to Carly admitting   > she E > has been unable to fix the problems of the PC business to make it   
 > competitive  > with Dell. > J > Carly's ego is way too important for her own carreer, and she'd rather   > admit G > that IA64 was a big msitake than admitting she is unable to fix the    > wintel business.  : Well, she got one thing right, were your analysis correct.       --  C Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 01:12:17 GMT 6 From: "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@NOSPAM.spyderbyte.com>7 Subject: Re: Rumour is HP may spin off printer business < Message-ID: <RNggd.30194$Jb.778317@twister.southeast.rr.com>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message& news:418188EE.BD595AFD@teksavvy.com... > Bob Koehler wrote:J > >    Much better to spin off he money loosing PC business under the nameA > >    Compaq and keep the profitable business under the name HP.  > J > Nop. Spinning off the PC business would be tantamount to Carly admitting she C > has been unable to fix the problems of the PC business to make it  competitive  > with Dell. > H > Carly's ego is way too important for her own carreer, and she'd rather admit L > that IA64 was a big msitake than admitting she is unable to fix the wintel	 business.     E When does Carly get the bonus for a successful merger?  Wasn't it $60  million?   Ken   # OpenVMS.org: http://www.OpenVMS.org    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 19:22:37 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> 7 Subject: Re: Rumour is HP may spin off printer business ( Message-ID: <opsgl0vzq7zgicya@hyrrokkin>  2 On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 01:12:17 GMT, Kenneth Farmer  & <kfarmer@NOSPAM.spyderbyte.com> wrote:  < > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message( > news:418188EE.BD595AFD@teksavvy.com... >> Bob Koehler wrote: K >> >    Much better to spin off he money loosing PC business under the name B >> >    Compaq and keep the profitable business under the name HP. >>K >> Nop. Spinning off the PC business would be tantamount to Carly admitting  > she D >> has been unable to fix the problems of the PC business to make it
 > competitive 
 >> with Dell.  >>I >> Carly's ego is way too important for her own carreer, and she'd rather  > admit H >> that IA64 was a big msitake than admitting she is unable to fix the  	 >> wintel  > business.  >  > G > When does Carly get the bonus for a successful merger?  Wasn't it $60 
 > million?F It wasn't for a successful merger, it was for agreeing to stay 2 yearsG after the merger, AIR,  and I think I read then that it was 180 Million 9 to the two of them, don't remember how they divied it up.  >  > Ken  > % > OpenVMS.org: http://www.OpenVMS.org  >  >        --  C Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 20:14:28 GMT % From: Bob Harris <harris@zk3.dec.com> ' Subject: Re: Suggestion for TPU: revert B Message-ID: <harris-FE6552.16142728102004@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net>  G In article <opsglatdbkzgicya@hyrrokkin>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>   wrote:  J > On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 16:40:20 GMT, Bob Harris <harris@zk3.dec.com> wrote: > K > > About the time TPU and EVE were being released, I changed companies and J > > my choices were vi or TECO (and not a very good TECO implementation atI > > that).  Sedt and Emacs were not an option on a PDP-11 running UNIX in D > > 1985.  I choose vi, and over time I became a master of using vi. > C > You sure about that?  I had emacs on both Primos and VAX/BSD Unix B > never had a PDP ll.  Unix on PDP-11 wouldn't that have been BSD?* > Gosling's emacs was certainly available.  I It was System V.2.  And at the time Emacs would not fit into 64K of code  H and 56K of date space (8K for stack), at least that is my memory of the G situation when someone did introduce me to Emacs.  Later when we got a  G VAX-11/750 we did manage to get Emacs compiled and running (a new hire  D wanted it, and provided the source tape), but the Emacs source code 7 would never compile and run on the PDP-11's (he tried).   G Besides, at the time vi was already there, and I did not have an Emacs  G habit I needed to maintain.  If I had been an Emacs user, I would have  C most likely dug around to find an Emacs editor that would run on a   PDP-11 running System V.2   E vi is very basic, and to get any power out of it, you really need to  A learn how to do key mapping, and how to pipe sections of text to  F external utilities (like paragraph reformatting, spell checking, line C centering utilities, etc...).  The right key mapping can make this  F easier to do, but until you inherit a .exrc file of useful keymaps or A learn to do it yourself, vi is not as easy to start using as say   TPU/EVE, Emacs, etc...  I With the right knowledge, and a set of pipe utilities, and a good set of  E keymapping, vi is a powerful source code editor and it can do a very  E good job of writing ascii text (I use it all the time for emails and   design specs).  G However, now that I use Vim, I do not really want to go back to vi, as  D Vim "Kicks it up a Notch" so to speak.  With Vim I may not have the G "Operating System called Emacs", but most of the stuff that made Emacs  F attractive to me, I now have in Vim.  And I've got my Vim environment  "Tricked Out" really nice.  D But vi and Vim are not for everyone, especially if you have "Finger F Memory" for another editor, or a nice toolkit for another editor.  No I problem.  I'm not trying to convert anyone, especially an OpenVMS user.   H But from first hand experience, I do understand why someone may want to B have a vi emulator, or Vim available to them on an OpenVMS system.  2                                         Bob Harris   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.600 ************************