1 INFO-VAX	Sun, 31 Oct 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 604       Contents:( Re: Ball-park figure for OpenVMS costing( Re: Ball-park figure for OpenVMS costing( Re: Ball-park figure for OpenVMS costing( Re: Ball-park figure for OpenVMS costing( Re: Ball-park figure for OpenVMS costing* Re: Looking for DCL 'virus' checker script* Re: Looking for DCL 'virus' checker script* Re: Looking for DCL 'virus' checker script* Re: Looking for DCL 'virus' checker script$ Re: OT: Election technology question$ Re: OT: Election technology question. Re: reading files from tape not written by vms. Re: reading files from tape not written by vms) Re: SAN DISK - PROBLEM W/MNT STATE - MSCP ) Re: SAN DISK - PROBLEM W/MNT STATE - MSCP ) Re: SAN DISK - PROBLEM W/MNT STATE - MSCP ) Re: SAN DISK - PROBLEM W/MNT STATE - MSCP  Re: Suggestion for TPU: revert Re: Suggestion for TPU: revert Re: Suggestion for TPU: revert Re: Suggestion for TPU: revert Re: Suggestion for TPU: revert Re: Suggestion for TPU: revert Re: Suggestion for TPU: revert Re: Suggestion for TPU: revert Re: Suggestion for TPU: revert Re: Suggestion for TPU: revert Re: Suggestion for TPU: revert Re: Suggestion for TPU: revert Re: Time Change  Re: Time Change H TSM (Terminal Server Manager) script to get services and other settings?P Re: TSM (Terminal Server Manager) script to get services and other settings? set Re: VMS for Bush ? Re: VMS for Bush ?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 13:06:47 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>1 Subject: Re: Ball-park figure for OpenVMS costing * Message-ID: <4183D836.1A6235D@comcast.net>   Garry wrote: > g > David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<418060E4.2041BA62@comcast.net>...  > <snip> > > G > > It has, sort of. The TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS (formerly known as D > > "UCX") license is now bundled with the OpenVMS base license. TheK > > software itself is, however, still installed separately. VMS runs quite H > > happily with no network stack installed or running. The previous twoL > > third-party TCP/IP products also are still around: TCPware and Multinet. > E > I see, so although it's seperate, for my $500 base license, I don't  > pay any more for TCP/IP?  ) That's the long and the short of it, yes.    > >  > > > So I guess I need a more: > > > expensive version of OpenVMS to use TCP/IP stuff :-( > > " > > Not really. VMS is VMS is VMS. > > B > > > I may still get the Hobbyist version for my own use, though. > > K > > Understand, however, there is no "hobbyist version". VMS is VMS is VMS. 5 > > What differs is the license, only - nothing more.  > D > Yes, that was a slip of the finger, I should really say version of) > license, rather than of OpenVMS itself.   
 Close enough.    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 13:05:52 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>1 Subject: Re: Ball-park figure for OpenVMS costing + Message-ID: <4183D800.376B4324@comcast.net>   
 "Doc." wrote:  > + > %NEWS-I-NEWMSG, David J Dachtera wrote in $ > news:418060E4.2041BA62@comcast.net > G > > It has, sort of. The TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS (formerly known as D > > "UCX") license is now bundled with the OpenVMS base license. TheE > > software itself is, however, still installed separately. VMS runs J > > quite happily with no network stack installed or running. The previousF > > two third-party TCP/IP products also are still around: TCPware and
 > > Multinet.  > H > Are you sure about that licensing?  I expected Hoff or someone else toK > correct me if I was wrong about the base license Island offers being just H > that.  From the web it seems impossible to establish what is and isn'tM > included with a base license.  I eventually found what is included with EIS 6 > licenses, but only in the installation guide for it. > M > Of course, if TCP/IP is included with the base license this makes the price . > of VMS much better in the comparison I made.  B Think of it this way: rather than make the effort to modify UCX toE recognize the VMS PAK, what they're doing in essence is sending out a   UCX PAK along with your VMS PAK.   Does that help?    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 13:14:08 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>1 Subject: Re: Ball-park figure for OpenVMS costing + Message-ID: <4183D9F0.3CB27413@comcast.net>    DL Phillips wrote: > g > David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<418060E4.2041BA62@comcast.net>...  > G > > It has, sort of. The TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS (formerly known as D > > "UCX") license is now bundled with the OpenVMS base license. TheK > > software itself is, however, still installed separately. VMS runs quite H > > happily with no network stack installed or running. The previous twoL > > third-party TCP/IP products also are still around: TCPware and Multinet. > >  > G > This is another example of "Nobody really understands VMS licensing".   H Probably more a case of "Nobody understands the difference between a PAK and a license".   D Ask yourself, what's easier (read: "incurs less corporate expense"):  C  1. Modify (x) to recognize the LMF entry for (y), modify catalogs, ,     SPDs, etc. to reflect the policy change.  D  2. Send out a PAK for (x) along with the PAK for (y), no additional'     charge (i.e., modify only the BOM).   D Recall also that a "license" is a legal concept. A PAK is a piece of paper, nothing more.   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 19:01:42 -0400 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>1 Subject: Re: Ball-park figure for OpenVMS costing , Message-ID: <41841D56.7060804@tsoft-inc.com>   David J Dachtera wrote:    > DL Phillips wrote: > g >>David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<418060E4.2041BA62@comcast.net>...  >> >>F >>>It has, sort of. The TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS (formerly known asC >>>"UCX") license is now bundled with the OpenVMS base license. The J >>>software itself is, however, still installed separately. VMS runs quiteG >>>happily with no network stack installed or running. The previous two K >>>third-party TCP/IP products also are still around: TCPware and Multinet.  >>>  >>> G >>This is another example of "Nobody really understands VMS licensing".  >> > J > Probably more a case of "Nobody understands the difference between a PAK > and a license".  > F > Ask yourself, what's easier (read: "incurs less corporate expense"): > E >  1. Modify (x) to recognize the LMF entry for (y), modify catalogs, . >     SPDs, etc. to reflect the policy change. > F >  2. Send out a PAK for (x) along with the PAK for (y), no additional) >     charge (i.e., modify only the BOM).  > F > Recall also that a "license" is a legal concept. A PAK is a piece of > paper, nothing more. >  >   5 I haven't checked pricing lately.  No reason to.  :-(   M Is TCP/IP and DECnet now included in the base price for VMS?  A seperate PAK  * doesn't bother me, an additional fee does.   Dave   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 22:06:24 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>1 Subject: Re: Ball-park figure for OpenVMS costing + Message-ID: <418456B0.50177260@comcast.net>    David Froble wrote:  >  > David J Dachtera wrote:  >  > > DL Phillips wrote: > > i > >>David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<418060E4.2041BA62@comcast.net>...  > >> > >>H > >>>It has, sort of. The TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS (formerly known asE > >>>"UCX") license is now bundled with the OpenVMS base license. The L > >>>software itself is, however, still installed separately. VMS runs quiteI > >>>happily with no network stack installed or running. The previous two M > >>>third-party TCP/IP products also are still around: TCPware and Multinet.  > >>>  > >>> I > >>This is another example of "Nobody really understands VMS licensing".  > >> > > L > > Probably more a case of "Nobody understands the difference between a PAK > > and a license".  > > H > > Ask yourself, what's easier (read: "incurs less corporate expense"): > > G > >  1. Modify (x) to recognize the LMF entry for (y), modify catalogs, 0 > >     SPDs, etc. to reflect the policy change. > > H > >  2. Send out a PAK for (x) along with the PAK for (y), no additional+ > >     charge (i.e., modify only the BOM).  > > H > > Recall also that a "license" is a legal concept. A PAK is a piece of > > paper, nothing more. > >  > >  > 7 > I haven't checked pricing lately.  No reason to.  :-(  > N > Is TCP/IP and DECnet now included in the base price for VMS?  A seperate PAK, > doesn't bother me, an additional fee does.  E AFAIK, they both come bundled, but with separate PAKs (Kerry, et al -  feel free to correct me).    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 22:03:00 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>3 Subject: Re: Looking for DCL 'virus' checker script + Message-ID: <418455E4.3E197AA0@comcast.net>    Bob Kaplow wrote:  > 1 > A long time ago in a Galaxy(tm) far far away...  > E > (probably in the late 80s or early 90s when I still worked for DEC)  > L > There was a short DCL script floating around that was a VMS Virus Checker.I > All it did was print a message that it was scanning for viri, wait 5-10 K > seconds, then print another message that VMS is virus free. Sure, I could K > write that in less time than it too to write this, but I was wondering if L > the original is around anywhere, so I could credit whoever came up with it > in the first place.   C Did you try KGB's DCL tricks archive? Don't have a URL handy, but I - think that I read something about it there...    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 03:17:12 GMT 5 From: brad@rabbit.dnsalias.org (Bradford J. Hamilton) 3 Subject: Re: Looking for DCL 'virus' checker script . Message-ID: <YOYgd.444250$mD.154017@attbi_s02>  ` In article <418455E4.3E197AA0@comcast.net>, David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes: !Bob Kaplow wrote: !>  2 !> A long time ago in a Galaxy(tm) far far away... !>  F !> (probably in the late 80s or early 90s when I still worked for DEC) !>  M !> There was a short DCL script floating around that was a VMS Virus Checker. J !> All it did was print a message that it was scanning for viri, wait 5-10L !> seconds, then print another message that VMS is virus free. Sure, I couldL !> write that in less time than it too to write this, but I was wondering ifM !> the original is around anywhere, so I could credit whoever came up with it  !> in the first place. ! D !Did you try KGB's DCL tricks archive? Don't have a URL handy, but I. !think that I read something about it there...   Is the archive here?:    http://www.kgb.com/dcl.html    !  !--  !David J Dachtera  !dba DJE Systems !http://www.djesys.com/  ! * !Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:# !http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ! ) !Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:   !http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/  J __________________________________________________________________________A Bradford J. Hamilton                    "All opinions are my own" K bMradAhamiPltSon-at-coMmcAast.nPeSt     "Lose the MAPS, and replace '-at-'  0                                          with @"   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Oct 2004 22:44:37 -05004 From: kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow)3 Subject: Re: Looking for DCL 'virus' checker script 3 Message-ID: <V$nd0vvBcyA4@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ` In article <418455E4.3E197AA0@comcast.net>, David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes:E > Did you try KGB's DCL tricks archive? Don't have a URL handy, but I / > think that I read something about it there...   L www.kgb.com and there isn't anything like that that I could find there. BTW,> Kevin is an old friend from before either of us were into DCL.  1 	Bob Kaplow	NAR # 18L	TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" & 		>>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<<K Kaplow Klips & Baffle:	http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf L     www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/    www.nira-rocketry.org    www.nar.org  1 	26-October, 2001: A day that will live in infamy 4 	Support Freedom: http://www.indefenseoffreedom.org/  ? 	Voting for "the lesser of two evils" is still voting for evil.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 04:54:24 +0100 B From: Michiel Erens <I.dont.want.spam@this.mailaddress.is.invalid>3 Subject: Re: Looking for DCL 'virus' checker script ! Message-ID: <41846253@news.nb.nu>    Bob Kaplow wrote:   1 > A long time ago in a Galaxy(tm) far far away...  > E > (probably in the late 80s or early 90s when I still worked for DEC)  > L > There was a short DCL script floating around that was a VMS Virus Checker.I > All it did was print a message that it was scanning for viri, wait 5-10 K > seconds, then print another message that VMS is virus free. Sure, I could K > write that in less time than it too to write this, but I was wondering if L > the original is around anywhere, so I could credit whoever came up with it > in the first place.   & Do you mean this post by Ehud Gavron :H http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=29OCT199414505124%40hearts.aces.com   --   ME Posted by news://news.nb.nu    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 14:53:17 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> - Subject: Re: OT: Election technology question , Message-ID: <4183E31A.705C3151@teksavvy.com>   Fabio Cardoso wrote:G > May be the brazilians can help you ! :-) Our electronic voting system 2 > works fine and we have the results in 2-3 days !  M In Canada, we have old fashioned paper ballots and results start trickling in J within minutes of polls closing as they count each box containing ballots.L Within 3-4 hours of polls closing in qubec/ontario (1 hour after closing inH BC/Yukon) , the results are clear enough nationwide to declare a winner.  L The isseu in the USA is that it is not a national election. It is 50 totallyM separate elections with 50 totally different standards and no central body to J collect the counting results. So the technology used by the medias becomes crucial on election night.   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Oct 2004 22:19:57 -05004 From: kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow)- Subject: Re: OT: Election technology question 3 Message-ID: <4s4jisLQAhla@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <4181FC26.A5F626CC@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:M > Once polls close in the USA, what sort of technology/flow of information is P > involved between the ballot boxes and the fancy graphics each TV network spits > out continuously ?  J Wasn't there some sort of computer glitch last time around with one of theC network or polsters exit polls, so they didn't have the information  available that night?   1 	Bob Kaplow	NAR # 18L	TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" & 		>>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<<K Kaplow Klips & Baffle:	http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf L     www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/    www.nira-rocketry.org    www.nar.org  1 	26-October, 2001: A day that will live in infamy 4 	Support Freedom: http://www.indefenseoffreedom.org/  ? 	Voting for "the lesser of two evils" is still voting for evil.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 03:59:45 +0800  From: prep@prep.synonet.com 7 Subject: Re: reading files from tape not written by vms - Message-ID: <87mzy4kmdq.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   - Blaise Canzian <blaise@nofs.navy.mil> writes:   A > Other were written by 3rd-party software that wrote FITS format 1 > files separated by the usual end-of-file marks.    ...   D > Can anyone offer suggestions about how to mount and copy files offD > these tapes, in the microvax vms environment, assuming that what IE > want are "bytes in files" that I can then manipulate afterward in a ! > different environment?  Thanks.   D I got the FITS stuff working on VMS way back when, and got it ported< to Alphas. It was sent to the site (NASA?) that has the FITS- repository and should still be there I think.   C Don't forget to send hp a vote of thinks for all the help they have ) been in the scientific and research area.    --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 23:59:58 +0200 0 From: Keith Cayemberg <keith.cayemberg@arcor.de>7 Subject: Re: reading files from tape not written by vms B Message-ID: <41840ee0$0$22610$9b4e6d93@newsread4.arcor-online.net>   prep@prep.synonet.com wrote:  / > Blaise Canzian <blaise@nofs.navy.mil> writes:  >  > A >>Other were written by 3rd-party software that wrote FITS format 1 >>files separated by the usual end-of-file marks.  >  >  > .... >  > D >>Can anyone offer suggestions about how to mount and copy files offD >>these tapes, in the microvax vms environment, assuming that what IE >>want are "bytes in files" that I can then manipulate afterward in a ! >>different environment?  Thanks.  >  > F > I got the FITS stuff working on VMS way back when, and got it ported> > to Alphas. It was sent to the site (NASA?) that has the FITS/ > repository and should still be there I think.  > E > Don't forget to send hp a vote of thinks for all the help they have + > been in the scientific and research area.  >   = http://heasarc.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/software/fitsio/fitsio.html + ftp://legacy.gsfc.nasa.gov/software/fitsio/ 6 http://mssls7.mssl.ucl.ac.uk/sw/help/fitsio/node3.html     Cheers!    Keith Cayemberg    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 13:01:47 -0500 ( From: brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon)2 Subject: Re: SAN DISK - PROBLEM W/MNT STATE - MSCP1 Message-ID: <04103013014744@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>   " chessmaster1010@hotmail.com wrote:G > We have had no crashes, but your warning about data corruption scares D > me.  Can you elaborate?  Would it occur only as part of a crash orH > when switching to/from the MSCP path?  Would setting MPDEV_ENABLE to 0H > allow these system to use the EVA with MSCP as a backup?  (We have twoD > fiber switches with half the systems connected to each and the EVA! > controllers connected to both.)    Here is what happened...  4 From the HSG80 I configured the disk, assigned an ID  @ From one of the servers (three node cluster) I did the following   $ MCR SYSMAN IO AUTO $ INIT $1$DGA2700: TEST ) $ MOUNT /SYSTEM /CLUSTER $1$DGA2700: TEST   M Since the other nodes did not see the physical device they mounted it as MSCP   B Has I performed the SYSMAN IO AUTO on all three nodes prior to the% MOUNT/CLUSTER I would have been fine.        John "REBOOT" Brandon  VMS Systems Administrator * firstname.lastname.spam.me.not@dalsemi.com   ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 19:21:54 +0000 (UTC) 7 From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) 2 Subject: Re: SAN DISK - PROBLEM W/MNT STATE - MSCP( Message-ID: <cm0pki$bh9$1@pcls4.std.com>  1 brooks@cuebid.zko.dec.nospam (Rob Brooks) writes:    >Minor nit, however!  O >Multipath has been supported since OpenVMS Alpha V7.2 for non-shadowed disks.    O >Support for shadow sets was added for V7.2-1.  Fibre Channel tape support (but L >non-multipath) was added in V7.3.  Multipath for tapes was added in V7.3-1.  B >Multipath failover to an MSCP path for disks was added in V7.3-1.  F Doh!  When I wrote "multipath" I meant the direct/served path support.A There are two different multipath pieces that will look to be the D same to the end user.  The first was scsi/fibre support of differentH paths to the same device.  The second was adding MSCP path support whichI was a different can of worms, as this now involves a completely different E driver which communicates with the device using a different protocol.  --   -Mike    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 22:04:43 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>2 Subject: Re: SAN DISK - PROBLEM W/MNT STATE - MSCP+ Message-ID: <4184564B.B9EF1726@comcast.net>    John Brandon wrote:  > $ > chessmaster1010@hotmail.com wrote:I > > We have had no crashes, but your warning about data corruption scares F > > me.  Can you elaborate?  Would it occur only as part of a crash orJ > > when switching to/from the MSCP path?  Would setting MPDEV_ENABLE to 0J > > allow these system to use the EVA with MSCP as a backup?  (We have twoF > > fiber switches with half the systems connected to each and the EVA# > > controllers connected to both.)  >  > Here is what happened... > 6 > From the HSG80 I configured the disk, assigned an ID > B > From one of the servers (three node cluster) I did the following >  > $ MCR SYSMAN IO AUTO > $ INIT $1$DGA2700: TEST + > $ MOUNT /SYSTEM /CLUSTER $1$DGA2700: TEST  > O > Since the other nodes did not see the physical device they mounted it as MSCP  > D > Has I performed the SYSMAN IO AUTO on all three nodes prior to the' > MOUNT/CLUSTER I would have been fine.   G You may want to check the value of the MSCP_SERVE_ALL parameter on your E various nodes to make sure it's what you really need. Seems to me the 4 first node shouldn't be serving these to the others.   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------    Date: 31 Oct 2004 00:51:18 -0500/ From: brooks@cuebid.zko.dec.nospam (Rob Brooks) 2 Subject: Re: SAN DISK - PROBLEM W/MNT STATE - MSCP- Message-ID: <ll3WmqB6VAdt@cuebid.zko.dec.com>   ( chessmaster1010@hotmail.com (JG) writes:I >(Rob Brooks) wrote in message news:<Z5BC1Yk9dVcC@cuebid.zko.dec.com>...  O >> <snip>...support for failover to a served path for multipath devices was not N >> added until V7.3-1, so you cannot have both direct and served paths for anyQ >> given device, given your ancient version of OpenVMS Alpha.  Given this, please N >> make sure that the SYSGEN parameter MPDEV_REMOTE is 0 on any system that isP >> not running V7.3-1 or higher.  Failure to heed this warning can cause crashes >> and data corruption!  > C > Since we currently only have one Fiber HBA in these Alphas I have E > MPDEV_REMOTE set to 1 and I have tested pulling out the fiber cable H > for one of these systems and it had no apparent problem switching to aG > MSCP path.  Then, after reconnecting the cable, I was able to use SET D > DEVICE /SWITCH/PATH= to get it to use the direct fiber path again. > G > We have had no crashes, but your warning about data corruption scares  > me.  Can you elaborate?   # 	No.  Please set MPDEV_REMOTE to 0.   B > Would it occur only as part of a crash or when switching to/from > the MSCP path?> 	I'm not going to answer that question, nor am I going to listA the circumstances of which I'm aware that  corruption may happen.    J If I failed to list a specific scenario under which you wound up with dataF corrupted, I wouldn't want you (or anyone else) to claim that I listedJ *all* the possible ways corruption could happen, yet you (or someone else)F still had a problem, and VMS Engineering is at fault for not explicityD warning you (or someone else) of that specific situation under which2 you (or someone else) got data corrupted.  Sorry.   " >  Would setting MPDEV_ENABLE to 0< > allow these system to use the EVA with MSCP as a backup?  ; 	No.  Setting MPDEV_ENABLE = 0 would simply restrict you to L configuring a single local path per disk.  It would not allow MSCP failover.  G I'm sorry you cannot upgrade to a more modern version of OpenVMS Alpha, J but your setting MPDEV_REMOTE = 1 renders your configuration as completelyI unsupported.  You are playing with fire, and I'm actually a bit surprised ; that you have not had any (detected) corruption or crashes.    --    M Rob Brooks    VMS Engineering -- I/O Exec Group     brooks!cuebid.zko.dec.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 14:05:40 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> ' Subject: Re: Suggestion for TPU: revert , Message-ID: <4183D7F4.E8A081DB@teksavvy.com>  & Many have mentioned how great "vi" is.  M Is this the same VI that isn't even quite full screen editor and requires you N type in special key sequence to let you type text on a line otherwise all your( keystrokes are interpreted as commands ?   Does VI have a gui version ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 13:17:50 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>' Subject: Re: Suggestion for TPU: revert + Message-ID: <4183DACE.5FC15CED@comcast.net>    JF Mezei wrote:  >  > John Powers wrote:F > > Including loads of extra bells and whistles, in order to add everyK > > possible add-on, to give features that maybe one customer in a thousand ( > > will want to use once every 2 years, > O > The thing is that REVERT is pretty standard across all modern platforms in so M > many applications which are file based (text/graphic editors for instance).  > > > > One additional point here. I don't like the name 'revert', > M > Well, for the command line, it could be anything. but as a menu item in the O > decwindows version is should be "revert" in order to abide to established gui  > standards across platforms.   A What's wrong with <DO>QUIT<CR>, then cursor up to recall the last ) command, hit return again and start over?    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 13:19:49 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>' Subject: Re: Suggestion for TPU: revert + Message-ID: <4183DB45.8D4AC0D7@comcast.net>    Ken Fairfield wrote: >  > JF Mezei wrote:  >  > > John Vottero wrote:  > > I > >>TPU is a programming language.  EVE is an editor written in TPU.  You K > >>probably have the source code for EVE in SYS$EXAMPLES: , take a look at N > >>EVE$FILE.TPU and you can see how GET works and use that as a base for your > >>own REVERT.  > >  > > C > > That mentality is what led Linux Torvalds to write his own too.  > > I > > If we want VMS to succeed, it si the default vanilla VMS that must be Q > > improved. Just adding a sheet of paper that says "here is VMS, now spend mega Q > > hours writing your own basic features that come by defaylt with competing OS"  > > isn't good enough. > F > Coming late to the discussion, but being a hard-core TPU advocate... > C > Please remember that EVE was created as an "example" of an editor B > using TPU.  For full-featured editing, including multiple "undo"% > capability, etc., VMS provides LSE.   G I awlays got a(n angry) kick out of that: here's a programming language G for writing an editor that performs basic editing functions "out of the  box"; want more? YOYO."   G > For those of us who have a bit of history behind us, :-)  if you need J > a new feature for EVE, or want to change the behaviour of some function,J > you write it and add it.  You don't complain that VMS Engineering didn't > do it for you...  C Folks are just expecting the VMS world to stay apace of Mickey$lop.    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 11:38:32 -0700  From: Z <z@no.spam> ' Subject: Re: Suggestion for TPU: revert 0 Message-ID: <10o7nsf7e5a9425@corp.supernews.com>   JF Mezei wrote:  > Does VI have a gui version ?   vim.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 23:43:30 +0200 0 From: Keith Cayemberg <keith.cayemberg@arcor.de>' Subject: Re: Suggestion for TPU: revert B Message-ID: <41840b03$0$22609$9b4e6d93@newsread4.arcor-online.net>   david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: ^ > In article <2lf1o091vq722d2itjsqo4lq6eivh9a2de@4ax.com>, Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com> writes: > J >>On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 02:29:49 GMT, Bob Harris <harris@zk3.dec.com> wrote: >> >>H >>>Now personally, if I was in charge of TPU and EVE would be making it  >>>look like vi :-)  >>O >>If you are perverted enough to want to use it we already have vi available on ! >>VMS as part of the GNV package.  >> > A > There are also at least a couple of public domain clones of vi. ' > One of which I recall is called VILE.  >  > David Webb > Security team leader > CCSS > Middlesex University >  >  >  >>-- >>Nigel Barker! >>Live from the sunny Cote d'Azur   & Here are a few VI and friends URL's...     VI - Corby's vi Bible & http://www.opus1.com/www/vi/index.html   VI LOVERS HOME PAGE  http://thomer.com/vi/vi.html   VILE - OpenVMS Freeware CD v6 7 http://h71000.www7.hp.com/freeware/freeware60/vile093t/    VILE - TU Delft - HREM< http://nchrem.tnw.tudelft.nl/openvms/software2.html#Ungiflib  ' VILE - Vi Like Emacs - Thomas E. Dickey $ http://dickey.his.com/vile/vile.html  0 VILE - Vi Like Emacs - Thomas E. Dickey - mirror* http://invisible-island.net/vile/vile.html  ! Vim - Vi IMproved - freshmeat.net 4 http://freshmeat.net/projects/vim/?topic_id=63%2C849   VIM - OpenVMS Freeware CD v62 http://h71000.www7.hp.com/freeware/freeware60/vim/  - Vim for OpenVMS - Information Page - PolarFox  http://www.polarfox.com/vim/  0 Vim for OpenVMS - Vim-vms Listserver - PolarHome1 http://www.polarhome.com/mailman/listinfo/vim-vms   4 Vim for OpenVMS (Alpha, VAX executables) - PolarHome% http://www.polarhome.com/vim/?lang=en    Vim.Org  http://www.vim.org/   ' Vim.Org - Alternate Sourceforge Address  http://vim.sourceforge.net/      Cheers!    Keith Cayemmberg   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 18:30:38 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> ' Subject: Re: Suggestion for TPU: revert , Message-ID: <4184160E.FC1FBA3C@teksavvy.com>   Keith Cayemberg wrote: > VI - Corby's vi Bible ( > http://www.opus1.com/www/vi/index.html    % Yep, that is how I had remembered it.   H Isn't there some mode where you can move the cursor around and type textM anywhere you want ? Or must you escape to command mode, move cursor, then get  back to input mode ?  M I frankly really cannot see how such a 1970s editor would still be "religion" 5 today. Sounds like it is of the same vintage as TECO.    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 00:25:11 GMT % From: Bob Harris <harris@zk3.dec.com> ' Subject: Re: Suggestion for TPU: revert B Message-ID: <harris-05D0E0.20251130102004@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net>  , In article <4183D7F4.E8A081DB@teksavvy.com>,/  JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:   ( > Many have mentioned how great "vi" is. > O > Is this the same VI that isn't even quite full screen editor and requires you P > type in special key sequence to let you type text on a line otherwise all your* > keystrokes are interpreted as commands ?  H Are you thinking of EDT v1.0??  Or do you just mean that the thought of ' a modal editor are offensive to you :-)   F A modal editor has advantages of allowing you to keep your fingers on I the main keyboard (if you want), and not need to revert to using a mouse cF or moving your hands over the arrow keys or the keypad and back again 9 with the lost of time it takes to re-position your hands.e  E It means instead of having just the limited number of keypad keys as TF command keys, you have the entire lowercase and uppercase alphabet as I well as the number and special characters keys, plus the control keys as  D commands (26+26+10+30+26 = 118), not to mention that you can create H multiple key commands so the number of commands all at your finger tips H is rather high, and you can still use the keypad and arrow keys so that  adds even more to the mix.  I But there is a cost to having to learn modal editing.  You have to learn  E the commands (and it can be a steep learning curve), and you have to aG enter and exit from insert mode.  But then again, you do not live in a cH mode-less world.  You have to know if you are at the DCL prompt and can G use DCL command line editing, or in EVE and can use EVE editing, or if  H you are in a browser and can use the browsers style of editing, etc...  C We all live with modes.  Introducing a mode to an editor is not so s strange a foreign a concept.  G But heck, I do not think anyone is trying to convince anyone here that oG they should throw away their "Finger Memory" and switch to a different .F religion.  I personally would still be using EDT if the company I had G worked for had not started going down hill and I let the my youth take oC me to a different company based on my VMS skills, only to have the sI company change directions a month after I got there, and go UNIX.  I was nJ 400 miles from where I started and I wasn't going back, so I learned vi.  H I'm not sorry, but I'm also out out to convert anyone or to "Dis" their E choice of editor.  If it gets your job done, that is all that really c* matters.  It is just a tool.  Use it well.   > Does VI have a gui version ?  H Yes.  gVim.  With full Mouse support.  You can position the cursor with F the mouse, you can scroll with the mouse (up, down, left, right), you F can resize the main window with the mouse, if you split the window to G have multiple views of the same file or multiple files, you can resize SI the sub-windows with the mouse, you can select text with the mouse.  You  F can even put gvim into an always in insert mode and do everything via G the mouse and menu items, and if you want you can program the function iH keys to do everything that you do not want to to via the menu and mouse.  D And gvimdiff a GUI visual side-by-side differences with full editor H based navagation commands to jump to each change, plus since you are in H an editor, you can made additional changes based on what you see as the I current diff's.   Personally this is one of my greatest joys using Vim.  gC I've even got long time Emacs users using it as a differences tool  I because it is so good at what it does (they still use Emacs for editing).s  2                                         Bob Harris   ------------------------------   Date: 31 Oct 2004 00:44:07 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)' Subject: Re: Suggestion for TPU: reverto+ Message-ID: <2uiqqnF2b0a92U1@uni-berlin.de>   , In article <4184160E.FC1FBA3C@teksavvy.com>,0 	JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > Keith Cayemberg wrote: >> VI - Corby's vi Bible) >> http://www.opus1.com/www/vi/index.html  >  > ' > Yep, that is how I had remembered it.  > J > Isn't there some mode where you can move the cursor around and type textO > anywhere you want ? Or must you escape to command mode, move cursor, then getw > back to input mode ?  A Yeah, it's called xedit (or xemacs or any other Xwindows editor).h   > O > I frankly really cannot see how such a 1970s editor would still be "religion"n7 > today. Sounds like it is of the same vintage as TECO.p  D Never had to access a system from a remote location without a mouse?   bill   -- eJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   p   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 00:50:32 GMT:% From: Bob Harris <harris@zk3.dec.com>-' Subject: Re: Suggestion for TPU: revert,B Message-ID: <harris-AEACB1.20503230102004@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net>  , In article <4184160E.FC1FBA3C@teksavvy.com>,/  JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:c   > Keith Cayemberg wrote: > > VI - Corby's vi Biblee* > > http://www.opus1.com/www/vi/index.html >  > ' > Yep, that is how I had remembered it.  > J > Isn't there some mode where you can move the cursor around and type textO > anywhere you want ? Or must you escape to command mode, move cursor, then getl > back to input mode ?  I Yes you can put Vim into an always in insert mode and use the arrow keys eF to move the cursor around, or program function keys to do more larger  jumps than an arrow keys worth.e  E gvim will allow you to do a great deal of navigation via the mouse.   5 Cursor positioning, scrolling, text selection, etc...a  O > I frankly really cannot see how such a 1970s editor would still be "religion"r7 > today. Sounds like it is of the same vintage as TECO.t  I I would be careful how you phrase that.  EDT's origins were 1980'ish.  I cH remember using a field test version in October of 1979, and EDT 1.0 was I very much a modal editor where what you typed went on the bottom line of  C the screen and was not a "WYSIWYG" editor.  TPU/EVE is from around iD 1984'ish.  That is 20'ish years ago and most likely just a few year H younger than vi.  TECO spawned Emacs, although Emacs today is not based I on TECO, but Emacs uses Lisp as its programming language and that is one y0 of the older programming languages out there :-)  C The original vi really has not changed much from when it was first sG created by Bill Joy, but it was a very powerful programming editor and -I it still is.  If you know vi, and it is text you have to edit, a vi user iE can fly.  And the vi emulators that have come along, especially Vim, i= have increased the power and flexibility of vi a huge amount.I  I And it is mostly a "Religion" because of "Finger Memory".  We all prefer  B the editor we know best.  We change only because we are forced to G (changing jobs, old editor no longer available, etc...), or because we pD feel a need.  Some people may actually change just for the spirt of * adventure, but there are not many of them.  G An editor is just a tool to help you do something else (generally that oF something else is what they are paying you to do :-)  As long as your I editor lets you keep that paycheck coming in, you are more than happy to   keep using it.  I am :-)  2                                         Bob Harris   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 21:54:48 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> ' Subject: Re: Suggestion for TPU: revert , Message-ID: <418445DB.7FFB6B10@teksavvy.com>   Bob Harris wrote:)J > And it is mostly a "Religion" because of "Finger Memory".  We all preferC > the editor we know best.  We change only because we are forced toy: > (changing jobs, old editor no longer available, etc...),  G Yes, but there is such a huge productivity difference between line modenR editors (and their glorified versions such as vi) and full screen and gui editors.  K With Vi, you need to type an escape, then some command you wish to be done, M and then choose the command to put you back into text mode in the right mode.   - With TPU, I type one key and continue typing.3  M I started off with line editors on decwriters on 300bps accoustic couplers. IuN saw full screen editors on 3270 terminals and that made me realise how pityfulR line editors (and the BASIC editors on commodore pets and apple II machines) were.  K I had a lot of trouble adjusting to insert-mode editors when I moved to the F MAC and found them to be rather lacking for editing programs. (lots ofN switching between mouse and keyboard). When I moved to VMS, I found TPU/EVE toF be a great mix of editing functions, with both insert and replace modeF available and definitely more programming oriented than text oriented.  J And when I moved to the GUI version of TPU, I added productivity tools and didn't lose anything.s  K I consider my editor "life" to have been a constant evolution. Moving to vi 1 wouldn't be an evolution, it woudl be going back."   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 22:09:33 -0500n2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>' Subject: Re: Suggestion for TPU: revertl+ Message-ID: <4184576C.FC7B8380@comcast.net>y   Bob Harris wrote:  > . > In article <4183D7F4.E8A081DB@teksavvy.com>,1 >  JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:e > * > > Many have mentioned how great "vi" is. > >dQ > > Is this the same VI that isn't even quite full screen editor and requires youaR > > type in special key sequence to let you type text on a line otherwise all your, > > keystrokes are interpreted as commands ? > I > Are you thinking of EDT v1.0??  Or do you just mean that the thought of ) > a modal editor are offensive to you :-)m  H Well, I recall going to some great lengths to write a .exrc that gave viB some EDT-like capabilities (select ranges, and some other familiar
 concepts).  F These were still the days before WhineBloze became dominant and before- remote X sessions were ecomonically feasible./   -- f David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems: http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/g   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 03:45:35 GMTn% From: Bob Harris <harris@zk3.dec.com>g' Subject: Re: Suggestion for TPU: revert B Message-ID: <harris-A7F827.23453430102004@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net>  , In article <418445DB.7FFB6B10@teksavvy.com>,/  JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:    > Bob Harris wrote:aL > > And it is mostly a "Religion" because of "Finger Memory".  We all preferE > > the editor we know best.  We change only because we are forced to < > > (changing jobs, old editor no longer available, etc...), > I > Yes, but there is such a huge productivity difference between line moderL > editors (and their glorified versions such as vi) and full screen and gui 
 > editors.  I vi is _NOT_ a line mode editor!  Period.  I know a line mode editors.  I yH have used them, on ASR-33 Teletypes.  I've used them on IBM's TSO. I've H used SOS, I've used ed, I've used ex, I've used EDT line mode dialed in E via a TI-700 luggable terminal.  I've used real line mode editors on -I lots of systems.  I do know the difference between a screen editor and a gE line mode editor, and vi is most definitely _NOT_ a line mode editor.s  ' > With Vi, you need to type an escape, @  I So?  I can also program any key I want to be the mode switching key.  On jC my Tru64 UNIX workstation, I use F9 (mostly because on the current  G keyboard it is the same place as F11 on the 201 keyboard :-), but if i 8D want I can have any other key or dozen keys be the mode switch from F insert mode to command mode.  So what?   With a keypad based editor I I have to move my hand to the keypad to move the cursor, to cut and paste, sE to do a text fill (OK, I can do Control/B type FILL Carriage Return, wE which only means I've used TPU/EVE and I do know something about EVE)f  ( > then some command you wish to be done,O > and then choose the command to put you back into text mode in the right mode.B  A You mean like select text, cut, copy, paste, move my cursor by a eI character, word, end of word, line, beginning of line, end of line, half cA screen, full screen, beginning of file, end of file, jump to the tE beginning of the current function, enter a new variable declaration, hF jump back to where you were came from, find the matching {} [] () #if A #elif #else #endif, search for text, search for next, search for _I previous, select the word under the cursor as the search string, use the nG word under the cursor to search the tags (or cscope) database and jump AC to the source file with the definition of the function, structure,  D variable, pop the tags stack and return to the place where you came H from, lookup the 'man page' for the function under the cursor, indent a I line by a shift width, unindent a line by one shift width, or a range of DH lines, especially shifting entire if {...} range, or select a range and F reformat the indentation of the selected range, spell check, delete a I character, word, line, range of lines, lines between {...}, to beginning nB of file, to end of file, to end of paragraph, to the searched for B string, do paragraph fill, paragraph filling on C source comments F maintaining proper C comment style, switch to a different window in a E split screen setup, switch to a different file when editing multiple <H files, or back, set a mark or several marks that you can quickly return  to, etc...    I You mean like one of those commands?  Most of which only require I hit a c single key.A  B How is that different from moving your hand to the function keys, H hitting a single key, or hitting the DO key (or Control/B) and typing a  command?  H And going back into insert mode can be hitting one of these keys: a, A, F c, C, i, I, o, O, R, s, S, each of which does a different function on  its way to insert mode.'  I How is this different from returning your command from the function keys eF back to the main keyboard, and making sure your right index finger is H back on the 'j' key so when you type text it makes sense?  Remember, in G vi/Vim my right hand has not left the keyboard and my index finger has lF always been over the 'j' key (actually I find that my pinky finger is H most often the anchor finger, but when it has to move some other finger ? is the anchor, but my right hand is always over the home keys).s  . > With TPU, I type one key and continue typing  I Sure after moving your hand.  When I took physic I learned that the more mI mass you need to accelerate and then stop and then reaccelerate and stop 9H again, the more energy was needed.  You are moving your entire hand and D lower arm to get to that function keypad, and back again.  I'm just H moving my fingers.  Much less mass.  So I'm being energy efficient, and ; you are wasting the national resources to fuel your arm :-)a  D Also you assume that you only ever hit one key and then are back to G entering text.  I spend a lot of time using the editor to review code, iH looking to understand the code before making a modification, so I spend G a lot of time navigating around the sources.  When I'm typing text I'm bD not jumping in and out of insert mode every other character or even E every other word.  And because when I do jump in and out, I've still hB kept my hand in place, so while I may type escape (or alternate), G navigate operation, back into insert, I can do it very quickly because t my fingers are right there.d  O > I started off with line editors on decwriters on 300bps accoustic couplers. IeI > saw full screen editors on 3270 terminals and that made me realise how  	 > pityfulOO > line editors (and the BASIC editors on commodore pets and apple II machines) j > were.O  H And so did I.  Plus I've used EDT (5 years solid), EVE/TPU (still do at G least 4 or 5 times a week), I've used a TPU emulation of vi on OpenVMS zI (6 years) and I did extensive modifications to the emulation in TPU, and oF vi/Vim heavy duty for 12 years (18 if you count the time emulating in G TPU on OpenVMS).  I do have first hand experience with all many of the aI editors you mention, and I can say that vi (and Vim) are most definitely e* _NOT_ line mode editors, and never were.    H vi/Vim are just modal editors.  The only difference between EVE/TPU and F vi is where the command keys are located on the keyboard.  I have 118 H function keys.  You have about 23 function key and 4 arrow keys (I have B both sets too), and some of the F-number keys (those that are not : predefined by DECwindows that is; and I can use them too).  M > I had a lot of trouble adjusting to insert-mode editors when I moved to the H > MAC and found them to be rather lacking for editing programs. (lots of  %    Mac (MAC is an networking term :-)   ) > switching between mouse and keyboard). r  G Yea, I do not really like a mouse based editor.  In fact heavy mousing pF actually causes pain in my over used wrists.  The touch pad on my Mac C iBook is marginally better, but just marginally and only for minor e mousing.  E If I have to do heavy duty editing on my Mac, I will import the text oF into vi (which is actually Vim on Mac OS X 10.3) and do all the heavy G lifting in vi/Vim, when done join all the lines of each paragraph into II one long line and then import it into AppleWorks or Word and do any last  D minute font type formatting before printing or sending the document.  E As far as I know you can't do that with TPU/EVE.  But if you are not aG doing cross platform editing, then that doesn't matter, or if you only hG do minor editing on other platforms, you can live with whatever editor a the other platform offers.  ) > When I moved to VMS, I found TPU/EVE to H > be a great mix of editing functions, with both insert and replace modeH > available and definitely more programming oriented than text oriented.  F I had VMS EDT access (1979-1985) before my first Mac and I loved EDT, D and was using vi for 3 years before I got my first Mac II in 1988.  G Never really like using the Word processors for programming on the Mac rG until I found a port of Vim for the Mac.  Always felt the text editors s9 like BBEdit were just not powerful enough after using vi.1  I I found that vi was a natural as a programming editor.  I had to do some lG work to learn how to make it also a good text editor for writing specs nF and such (that was how I learned how to use all the power features of A vi).  Vim makes that job even easier and with better tags/cscope fH support, syntax highlighting, side-by-side visual differences, Vim is a  fantastic programming editor.u  L > And when I moved to the GUI version of TPU, I added productivity tools and > didn't lose anything.i  * Moving to Vim from vi did the same for me.  M > I consider my editor "life" to have been a constant evolution. Moving to vi 3 > wouldn't be an evolution, it woudl be going back.s  I No one is asking you to move to vi.  Your "Finger Memory" is TPU/EVE.  I sD might still be using EDT if my job change hadn't removed that as an F option for me.  Maybe I might have switched to TPU/EVE and customized I the heck out of it.  But vi came into my life first, and I found I liked . it./  E Switching to vi/Vim would be a royal pain in the butt.  Your "Finger -B Memory" would fight you every stop of the way.  You would be torn I between trying to learn how to do it better in vi/Vim, and accomplishing TG the tasks your boss wants you to do.  You would want some productivity eF feature in vi/Vim to work the way your TPU/EVE feature worked, but it H would be different and the difference would annoy you.  You would spend H a lot of time trying to program the function keys to do what you had in F TPU/EVE and find that you could only get 80% of the way there without @ doing some serious customization that you don't have time to do.  H But if you did learn it (and there are books to help with that), then I H think you would find that you would just find it different, and just as I powerful as TPU/EVE.  Not a step backwards, just a different way to look  6 at the same problem (editing text and program source).  F Although if you had no choice but to use vi, then choose Vim.  Vim in I compatibility mode is often the vi editor on most Linux distributions as oF well as Mac OS X.  It is only commercial OS's like Sun, Tru64, HP-UX, 4 that seem to still ship the original vi and not Vim.  2                                         Bob Harris   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 18:50:56 GMT & From: Lee Mah <lytmah@telusplanet.net> Subject: Re: Time Change+ Message-ID: <koRgd.49836$9b.33223@edtnps84>   , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.& --------------0903070305040505040704099 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowedr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bitn  E We've been updating our 5-node cluster from 7.3-1 to 7.3-2 this week.iC Within the next hour, only 1 node remains to be updated.  This is au8 comment from one of the analysts involved in the update.  D         Today, we discovered something I missed the other night.  OnH          the last reboot of node C, the TQE for setting daylight savings>          time disappeared. We checked nodes A and B and it was@          also not set on those nodes. We  manually set it beforeE          we left last night on A, B and C and will remember to set itfB          on D and E today.  We will also be logging a call with HP3          on the issue. Setting the SYSGEN parameterrD          AUTO_DLIGHT_SAV is suppose to force a change automatically.  ; The analyst thinks the patch for TDF v2 may have caused thes! disappearance of the TQE setting.:     Bob Kaplow wrote:N  ` >In article <a14deb10.0410291605.3c51f31f@posting.google.com>, ckchiu@hotmail.com (Bill) writes: >  1 >oF >>We are running OpenVMS 7.2-1.  I have to manually change the TDF andF >>system time twice a year for the Standard Time/Daylight Savings TimeB >>change.  Should the system be able to handle this automatically? >>     >> >VL >Auto time change came about in 7.3 or perhaps 7.3-1. There is a non-dynamicJ >sysgen param to enable it, and some logicals to set. But when I let it doL >its thing a year ago, there was a problem and it failed to change the time,. >so I had to do it the old fashioned way usingJ >sys$examples:daylight_savings.com. Supposedly this has been fixed, eitherK >via a patch, or in 7.3-2.. With my new job, I'm back at 7.1 for productionSJ >and using the command procedure to run batch jobs at 2am tomorrow. But myM >test system is at 7.3-2 and hopefully it will work right there. I'll let youU# >know around this time tomorrow :-)  >N2 >	Bob Kaplow	NAR # 18L	TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"' >		>>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<<aL >Kaplow Klips & Baffle:	http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdfM >    www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/    www.nira-rocketry.org    www.nar.org  >a2 >	26-October, 2001: A day that will live in infamy5 >	Support Freedom: http://www.indefenseoffreedom.org/d >y@ >	Voting for "the lesser of two evils" is still voting for evil. >  w >d  & --------------090307030504050504070409) Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii- Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit.  ? <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">  <html> <head>I   <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1">i   <title></title>  </head>m' <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#ffffff">cI We've been updating our 5-node cluster from 7.3-1 to 7.3-2 this week.<br>eL Within the next hour, only 1 node remains to be updated.&nbsp; This is a<br>< comment from one of the analysts involved in the update.<br> <br>k &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Today, we discovered something I missed the other night.&nbsp; On<br> o &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; the last reboot of node C, the TQE for setting daylight savings<br> e &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; time disappeared. We checked nodes A and B and it was<br>al &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; also not set on those nodes. We&nbsp; manually set it before<br>l &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; we left last night on A, B and C and will remember to set it<br>n &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; on D and E today.&nbsp; We will also be logging a call with HP<br>Z &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; on the issue. Setting the SYSGEN parameter<br>k &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; AUTO_DLIGHT_SAV is suppose to force a change automatically.<br>o <br>? The analyst thinks the patch for TDF v2 may have caused the<br>t% disappearance of the TQE setting.<br>s <br> <br> Bob Kaplow wrote:<br>oH <blockquote type="cite" cite="midqT3SerqJ+Z0u@eisner.encompasserve.org">   <pre wrap="">In article <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:a14deb10.0410291605.3c51f31f@posting.google.com">&lt;a14deb10.0410291605.3c51f31f@posting.google.com&gt;</a>, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ckchiu@hotmail.com">ckchiu@hotmail.com</a> (Bill) writes:   </pre>   <blockquote type="cite">U     <pre wrap="">We are running OpenVMS 7.2-1.  I have to manually change the TDF andED system time twice a year for the Standard Time/Daylight Savings Time@ change.  Should the system be able to handle this automatically?
     </pre>   </blockquote>s   <pre wrap=""><!---->K Auto time change came about in 7.3 or perhaps 7.3-1. There is a non-dynamicnI sysgen param to enable it, and some logicals to set. But when I let it dohK its thing a year ago, there was a problem and it failed to change the time,o- so I had to do it the old fashioned way usingoI sys$examples:daylight_savings.com. Supposedly this has been fixed, eithercJ via a patch, or in 7.3-2.. With my new job, I'm back at 7.1 for productionI and using the command procedure to run batch jobs at 2am tomorrow. But myvL test system is at 7.3-2 and hopefully it will work right there. I'll let you" know around this time tomorrow :-)  1 	Bob Kaplow	NAR # 18L	TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" 8 		&gt;&gt;&gt; To reply, remove the TRABoD! &lt;&lt;&lt; Kaplow Klips &amp; Baffle:	<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf">http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf</a>1    <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/">www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/</a>    <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.nira-rocketry.org">www.nira-rocketry.org</a>    <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.nar.org">www.nar.org</a>   1 	26-October, 2001: A day that will live in infamyE 	Support Freedom: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.indefenseoffreedom.org/">http://www.indefenseoffreedom.org/</a>c  ? 	Voting for "the lesser of two evils" is still voting for evil.e   </pre>
 </blockquote>  </body>i </html>u  ( --------------090307030504050504070409--   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 22:17:27 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> Subject: Re: Time Change+ Message-ID: <41845947.816F1852@comcast.net>t   Bill wrote:t > F > We are running OpenVMS 7.2-1.  I have to manually change the TDF andF > system time twice a year for the Standard Time/Daylight Savings TimeB > change.  Should the system be able to handle this automatically?  F Depends. For some applications, its infeasible to repeat a clock hour.  ? That said, the method I'll be employing tonight goes like this:c    1. Disable (Multinet's X)NTP.-  2. DEASSIGN the SYS$TIMEZONE* logical names.7  3. Change the system time.l*  4. Invoke SYS$STARTUP:TDF$UTC_STARTUP.COM!  5. Re-enable and restart (X)NTP.s  F 2-4 are done via SYSMAN and happen in rapid succession. 1 can still beH part of the automated procedure; however, MULTINET:START_SERVER.COM doesF not run from SYSMAN - SUBMIT 5 to a node-specific batch queue instead.   -- > David J Dachtera dba DJE Systemsm http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/r   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 23:25:40 +0100f  From: nic <spamthis@[127.0.0.1]>Q Subject: TSM (Terminal Server Manager) script to get services and other settings?i4 Message-ID: <cm143m$5hd$1$830fa795@news.demon.co.uk>  0 Before reinventing a wheel, I thought I'd ask...  I I'm using TSM from the freeware, and some of the GET_* scripts in DCL to i! replicate/save the port settings.w  I However I'm also using TELNET listener, and created some server specific tG services, are there any scripts that also capture this from a terminal aE servers configuration, similarly that are used to replicate/save the u4 servers settings? I'm using a DECserver 700-16 FWIW.  3 These may also be a candidate for the next freeware    TIA. -- .? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences.! nclews at csc dot com (from home)V   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 23:51:20 -0400y- From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network>eY Subject: Re: TSM (Terminal Server Manager) script to get services and other settings? setp1 Message-ID: <-ZSdnc0l642k_BncRVn-qQ@adelphia.com>   
 nic wrote:2 > Before reinventing a wheel, I thought I'd ask... > K > I'm using TSM from the freeware, and some of the GET_* scripts in DCL to -# > replicate/save the port settings.o > K > However I'm also using TELNET listener, and created some server specific -I > services, are there any scripts that also capture this from a terminal bG > servers configuration, similarly that are used to replicate/save the  6 > servers settings? I'm using a DECserver 700-16 FWIW.  F There could be.  I do not remember if I tested any against that model.  # DCL scripts can easily be modified.B  5 > These may also be a candidate for the next freeware2  8 http://h71000.www7.hp.com/freeware/freeware50/tsm_tools/   -Johnr wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Onlyw   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 15:24:58 -0400 ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca>b Subject: Re: VMS for Bush ?G; Message-ID: <JTRgd.33018$Qs6.2241353@news20.bellglobal.com>u  7 "Doc." <doc.cypher@openvms-rocks.com> wrote in message e1 news:Xns9591D5848B045dcovmsrox@212.100.160.123...  >C [...snip...] >nJ > Some people let their politics interfere with business.  I don't think aE > link to the https://georgewbush.com site belongs on either of these J > sites.  Neither is political in nature and promoting the politics of theH > owners/operators is highly inappropriate given the global audience and3 > wide variation in the opinions on the candidates.f >   M There is a strange thing going on in the world today; the majority of people iL seem to have less religion in their lives than the same number did 50 years L ago. This change has left in a spiritual void which some people have filled L with the new religion of political dogma. If you don't believe me, just try I "discussing" any politically sensitive topic with these people; it won't .G take long before you realize that they have closed their minds to some r topics.p  K That said, most technically minded people I know are centrists taking good tF ideas from the left and right while rejecting the bad. (an idea often J mentioned by Thomas Jefferson). It's really sad when you encounter people J who have basically said "It doesn't what information becomes available in J the future, I'm voting for party "X". (to put this into electronic terms, = the op-amp that is pinned to either Vcc or Vpp is defective).   J I think there's a lot of sense in always trying to vote out the incumbent < just to shake loose the lobbyists and back-room consultants.    
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.! http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/a   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 22:03:58 -0500t( From: Rich Jordan <duodec@speakeasy.net> Subject: Re: VMS for Bush ?t2 Message-ID: <V7OdnSxa19j4yhncRVn-hw@speakeasy.net>   David Svensson wrote:lC > OpenVMS.org: www.openvms.org (and SKHPC: www.shannonknowshpc.com)a: > advertise for George W Bush: http://www.georgewbush.com./ > (I cannot see it because I am not in the US.)4 > ) > And I thought VMS people were wise ? ;)c  H A lot of bloggers who have started signing up with advertising services C have had ads show up on their pages that they might personally not 8G prefer.  I have no idea how the openvms.org site is set up but if they  H use an ad service like those bloggers, they may or may not control what  ads show up.  D It would perhaps have been appropriate (or maybe 'wise') to ask the I folks running the board before jumping on COV with political harping and d international snarfing.   ; Please don't start another stream of political caca on COV.    Rich   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.604 ************************