1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 01 Sep 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 484       Contents:= Re: 3X-LK463-A2 DEC layout USB keyboard... no longer supplied ! Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ??? ! Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ??? ! Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ??? ! Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ??? ! RE: A whopping 50 percent...  ??? > ADVANCED NOTICE: selling ALPHAserver 2000 and ALPHAserver 2100' ANN: HG FILESERV updates from Lyle West $ Big IA64 test coming in a few months( Re: Big IA64 test coming in a few months& Re: cars, was re: HPworld - I Survived& Re: cars, was re: HPworld - I Survived8 CSWS_JAVA v2.1 - Tomcat v4.1.24 - update/upgrade Tomcat?- Re: DCE: Initialization (get bindings) failed ! Re: dec alpha 3000-600 error code ' Re: Error while listing a saveset file. ' Re: Error while listing a saveset file.  foto Re: foto RE: foto RE: foto Re: foto Re: foto Re: have fun with "inquire"  Re: HPworld - I Survived Re: HPworld - I Survived Itanium: EFI... no fs0: device" Re: Itanium: EFI... no fs0: device" Re: Itanium: EFI... no fs0: device" Re: Itanium: EFI... no fs0: device" Re: Itanium: EFI... no fs0: device" Re: Itanium: EFI... no fs0: device" Re: Itanium: EFI... no fs0: device" Re: Itanium: EFI... no fs0: device" Re: Itanium: EFI... no fs0: device" Re: Itanium: EFI... no fs0: device" Re: Itanium: EFI... no fs0: device" Re: Itanium: EFI... no fs0: device" Re: Itanium: EFI... no fs0: device Re: LK layout USB keyboard?????  Re: LK layout USB keyboard?????   Re: OpenVMS running on HP 3000's Re: SWS-2.0 (Apache) & CGI ???" Re: Volume Shadow Copy Stays at 0%" Re: Volume Shadow Copy Stays at 0%) Re: [OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-2] System freezed E [OT]: From the Dept. of Stolen Identies and Other Security Nightmares P Re: [OT]: From the Dept. of Stolen Identies and Other Security Nightmares Nightm/ [OT]: Smart Car    was Re: HPworld - I Survived   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 19:18:32 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORGF Subject: Re: 3X-LK463-A2 DEC layout USB keyboard... no longer supplied0 Message-ID: <00A372F6.4229F280@SendSpamHere.ORG>  q In article <857e9e41.0408310943.2453ccb3@posting.google.com>, susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski) writes:  >Brian,  > E >Just checked with Dave Rogers and this is a mistake there are plenty B >in supply he will be sending you email I have sent him your email	 >address.  >  >Warm Regards, >Sue    > Thanks Sue and Forrest.  I received an email from Dave Rogers.  @ However, I still do not know how to go about ordering this item. --  < http://www.ProvN.com  for the *best* OpenVMS system security=                       solutions that others only claim to be.  --  , Cyber-Terrorism (si'-ber tayr'-or-iz-em) n.:M   The release of, the sale of, or the use of any Micro$oft software product!   --  K VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM    ------------------------------   Date: 31 Aug 2004 18:05:30 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)* Subject: Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ???* Message-ID: <2pjsvaFlhksrU1@uni-berlin.de>  3 In article <eJKtw5wsB7F4@eisner.encompasserve.org>, > 	koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:a > In article <87n00cl7lw.fsf@k9.prep.synonet.com>, Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes:  >>  H >> With the Vax, DEC pulled the plug on the edu software pricing. So youG >> could bye a 780 then pay another $30K odd for VMS, ot $200 for unix.  > B >    $40K was the price we were quoted for BSD back in those days.  D Yeah, well cheap/free Unix for schools is another one of those mythsD bandied about by people who never actually had to deal with it.  TheD base license here 20 years ago was $1200 and covered putting Unix onC one machine.  That was merely AT&T's cut and did not include any of C the fees to UCB.  Nor did it cover any media costs if we had wanted F SYSV instead of BSD 4.x.  While $1200 today seems like nothing, it was@ a substantial investment for a small school like this back then.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 23:12:43 +0000 (UTC) , From: Mikko Putkonen <miputkon@paju.oulu.fi>* Subject: Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ???* Message-ID: <ch30lb$ql4$1@ousrvr3.oulu.fi>  < Bob Koehler <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote:J >   I wish somebody did have the numbers, I'd expect the total VMS systemsJ >   outnumbered the total UNIX systems for a few years in the early to mid	 >   80's.   A I'm absolutely clueless and inexperienced, as always, but could,  A say, an old list of systems once connected to ... umh ... Bitnet  D provide anything of interest?  Does this reflect anything about the  bigger picture?    ---   5                        CONNECTED NODES AS OF 11/11/87 /                              TOTAL NODES = 2063     8   Node      Site                                  System8   --------  ------------------------------------  ------6   IRIS                                            UNIX@   DOCCRC                                          HONEYWELL CP-6	   UNCACDC 
   UNCAMULT5   BCCHEM                                          VMS >   DKATS11   Aarhus Tek Skole (ATS)                IBM VM/SP R4>   DKJAU11   Aarhus Tekniske Skole, Denmark        IBM VM/SP R45   DKAAUCHE  Aarhus Univ                           VMS 5   ACUVAX    Abilene Christian Univ                VMS =   FINABO    Abo Akademi                           DEC VMS 4 3 5   ACADIA    Acadia U                              NOS 5   ALBION    Albion College                        VMS 5   EB0UAB51  Altes Energies-U A. Barcelona         VMS :   APSEDOFF  American Physical Soc                 UNIX BSD7   AUVM      American University                   VM/SP 5   AMHERST   Amherst College Acad Comp Ctr         VMS >   TRANAVM1  Anadolu Univ                          IBM VM/SP R45   ANLCMT    Argonne Chemical Tech Div             VMS 5   ANLCHM    Argonne Chemistry Division            VMS 5   ANLHEP    Argonne High Energy Physics Div       VMS 5   ANLMST    Argonne Materials Sci and Tech        VMS :   ANLNBI    Argonne Nat Lab Admin NBI             UNIX BSD7   ANLADM1   Argonne Nat Lab Admin NBI 1           OASYS 7   ANLADM2   Argonne Nat Lab Admin NBI 2           OASYS 7   ANLEES1   Argonne Nat Lab EES NBI               OASYS :   ANLNBI2   Argonne Nat Lab EES NBI               UNIX BSD7   ANLEES2   Argonne Nat Lab EES NBI               OASYS 7   ANLEES3   Argonne Nat Lab EES NBI               OASYS 5   ANLEL     Argonne Nat Lab Elec Div              VMS 5   ANLEES    Argonne Nat Lab Ener & Environ        VMS 7   ANLNESC   Argonne National Energy Sfw Ctr       VM/SP 8   ANLOS     Argonne National Lab                  MVS/SP7   ANLVM     Argonne National Lab                  VM/SP 5   ANLVMS    Argonne National Lab                  VMS 5   ANLCV1    Argonne National Lab Cluster VAX      VMS 5   ANLPHY    Argonne Physics Division              VMS 5   ANLPNS    Argonne Pulsed Neutron Src Proj       VMS 7   ASUIC     Arizona St U Info Ctr                 VM/SP 6   ASUCP1    Arizona State - U Chem/Phys/Solid State Sc5                                                   VMS 7   ASUACAD   Arizona State U                       VM/SP 7   ASUEJS    Arizona State U Eng Comp Ctr          VM/SP 7   ASUCADAM  Arizona State U Engr Res Ctr          VM/SP 6   ASUCP2    Arizona State U Lib Arts & Sci Res Cmpt Fa5                                                   VMS 5   ARSBARC   ARS                                   VMS <   FRIHAP31  Assistance Publique                   IBM MVS/SP7   ACMVM     Assoc Computing Machinery             VM/SP 5   AUDUCVAX  Auburn Univ                           VMX 7   AEARN     Austria EARN                          VM/SP 5   BABSON    Babson Coll                           VMS B   BARILAN   Bar Ilan U Comp Ctr                   IBM MVS/SP 1 3.5>   BARILVM   Bar Ilan Univ CC                      IBM VM/SP R4>   BIMACS    Bar llan Univ Math & CS               UNIX BSD 4 25   BAYLOR    Baylor Univ                           VMS 7   BAYLRHSB  Baylor Univ HSB                       VM/IS 8   BCIT      BCIT Computer Resources               VM/HPO7   NOBIVM    Bedrifts Instit                       VM/SP 7   BEARN     Belgium EARN                          VM/SP =   BGUNOS    Ben Gurion U Comp Ctr                 CDC NOS 2 3 =   BGUVMS    Ben Gurion University                 DEC VMS 4 5 8   BGUVM     Ben Gurion University                 IBM VM>   BENGUS    Ben-Gurion U Math Comp Sci            UNIX BSD 4 38   BENTLEY   Bentley College                       PRIMOS<   CBEBDA3T  Berne University                      IBM MVS/SP<   CBEBDA3C  Berne University                      IBM MVS/SP=   BGUEE     BGU Electrical Eng.                   DEC VMS 3 7 9   TECHMAX   Biomed Engineering Technion           DEC VMS 5   BRCVAX    Biotech Res Ctr                       VMS 7   BITNIC    BITNET Network Sup Ctr                VM/SP ;   INTERBIT  BITNET-Internet Gateway               VM/SP/HPO 7   BNR       BNR Information Systems               VM/SP 5   TRBOUN    Bogazici Univ                         NOS 5   BCVAX3    Boston College Computer Center        VMS 8   BCVMCMS   Boston College Computer Center        VM/HPO   ...    ---   9 The entire list is on http://www.netlib.org/misc/bitnet .      -Mikko Putkonen    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 21:32:54 -0400 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> * Subject: Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ???, Message-ID: <08mdndOgk6KvuqjcRVn-uA@igs.net>   Mikko Putkonen wrote: > > Bob Koehler <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote:C >>   I wish somebody did have the numbers, I'd expect the total VMS F >>   systems outnumbered the total UNIX systems for a few years in the >>   early to mid 80's.  > B > I'm absolutely clueless and inexperienced, as always, but could,B > say, an old list of systems once connected to ... umh ... BitnetE > provide anything of interest?  Does this reflect anything about the  > bigger picture?  >  > ---  > 7 >                        CONNECTED NODES AS OF 11/11/87 1 >                              TOTAL NODES = 2063  >  > : >   Node      Site                                  System: >   --------  ------------------------------------  ------8 >   IRIS                                            UNIXB >   DOCCRC                                          HONEYWELL CP-6 >   UNCACDC  >   UNCAMULT7 >   BCCHEM                                          VMS @ >   DKATS11   Aarhus Tek Skole (ATS)                IBM VM/SP R4@ >   DKJAU11   Aarhus Tekniske Skole, Denmark        IBM VM/SP R47 >   DKAAUCHE  Aarhus Univ                           VMS 7 >   ACUVAX    Abilene Christian Univ                VMS ? >   FINABO    Abo Akademi                           DEC VMS 4 3 7 >   ACADIA    Acadia U                              NOS 7 >   ALBION    Albion College                        VMS 7 >   EB0UAB51  Altes Energies-U A. Barcelona         VMS < >   APSEDOFF  American Physical Soc                 UNIX BSD9 >   AUVM      American University                   VM/SP 7 >   AMHERST   Amherst College Acad Comp Ctr         VMS @ >   TRANAVM1  Anadolu Univ                          IBM VM/SP R47 >   ANLCMT    Argonne Chemical Tech Div             VMS 7 >   ANLCHM    Argonne Chemistry Division            VMS 7 >   ANLHEP    Argonne High Energy Physics Div       VMS 7 >   ANLMST    Argonne Materials Sci and Tech        VMS < >   ANLNBI    Argonne Nat Lab Admin NBI             UNIX BSD9 >   ANLADM1   Argonne Nat Lab Admin NBI 1           OASYS 9 >   ANLADM2   Argonne Nat Lab Admin NBI 2           OASYS 9 >   ANLEES1   Argonne Nat Lab EES NBI               OASYS < >   ANLNBI2   Argonne Nat Lab EES NBI               UNIX BSD9 >   ANLEES2   Argonne Nat Lab EES NBI               OASYS 9 >   ANLEES3   Argonne Nat Lab EES NBI               OASYS 7 >   ANLEL     Argonne Nat Lab Elec Div              VMS 7 >   ANLEES    Argonne Nat Lab Ener & Environ        VMS 9 >   ANLNESC   Argonne National Energy Sfw Ctr       VM/SP : >   ANLOS     Argonne National Lab                  MVS/SP9 >   ANLVM     Argonne National Lab                  VM/SP 7 >   ANLVMS    Argonne National Lab                  VMS 7 >   ANLCV1    Argonne National Lab Cluster VAX      VMS 7 >   ANLPHY    Argonne Physics Division              VMS 7 >   ANLPNS    Argonne Pulsed Neutron Src Proj       VMS 9 >   ASUIC     Arizona St U Info Ctr                 VM/SP 8 >   ASUCP1    Arizona State - U Chem/Phys/Solid State Sc7 >                                                   VMS 9 >   ASUACAD   Arizona State U                       VM/SP 9 >   ASUEJS    Arizona State U Eng Comp Ctr          VM/SP 9 >   ASUCADAM  Arizona State U Engr Res Ctr          VM/SP 8 >   ASUCP2    Arizona State U Lib Arts & Sci Res Cmpt Fa7 >                                                   VMS 7 >   ARSBARC   ARS                                   VMS > >   FRIHAP31  Assistance Publique                   IBM MVS/SP9 >   ACMVM     Assoc Computing Machinery             VM/SP 7 >   AUDUCVAX  Auburn Univ                           VMX 9 >   AEARN     Austria EARN                          VM/SP 7 >   BABSON    Babson Coll                           VMS D >   BARILAN   Bar Ilan U Comp Ctr                   IBM MVS/SP 1 3.5@ >   BARILVM   Bar Ilan Univ CC                      IBM VM/SP R4@ >   BIMACS    Bar llan Univ Math & CS               UNIX BSD 4 27 >   BAYLOR    Baylor Univ                           VMS 9 >   BAYLRHSB  Baylor Univ HSB                       VM/IS : >   BCIT      BCIT Computer Resources               VM/HPO9 >   NOBIVM    Bedrifts Instit                       VM/SP 9 >   BEARN     Belgium EARN                          VM/SP ? >   BGUNOS    Ben Gurion U Comp Ctr                 CDC NOS 2 3 ? >   BGUVMS    Ben Gurion University                 DEC VMS 4 5 : >   BGUVM     Ben Gurion University                 IBM VM@ >   BENGUS    Ben-Gurion U Math Comp Sci            UNIX BSD 4 3: >   BENTLEY   Bentley College                       PRIMOS> >   CBEBDA3T  Berne University                      IBM MVS/SP> >   CBEBDA3C  Berne University                      IBM MVS/SP? >   BGUEE     BGU Electrical Eng.                   DEC VMS 3 7 ; >   TECHMAX   Biomed Engineering Technion           DEC VMS 7 >   BRCVAX    Biotech Res Ctr                       VMS 9 >   BITNIC    BITNET Network Sup Ctr                VM/SP = >   INTERBIT  BITNET-Internet Gateway               VM/SP/HPO 9 >   BNR       BNR Information Systems               VM/SP 7 >   TRBOUN    Bogazici Univ                         NOS 7 >   BCVAX3    Boston College Computer Center        VMS : >   BCVMCMS   Boston College Computer Center        VM/HPO >   ...  >  > ---  > ; > The entire list is on http://www.netlib.org/misc/bitnet .      Thanks for the list.  J Any bets as to just how many of these organizations still have any current VMS systems up and running?    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 01:44:53 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")* Subject: Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ???6 Message-ID: <00A37313.1140FCA2@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  R In article <08mdndOgk6KvuqjcRVn-uA@igs.net>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes: >Mikko Putkonen wrote:? >> Bob Koehler <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote: D >>>   I wish somebody did have the numbers, I'd expect the total VMSG >>>   systems outnumbered the total UNIX systems for a few years in the  >>>   early to mid 80's. >>C >> I'm absolutely clueless and inexperienced, as always, but could, C >> say, an old list of systems once connected to ... umh ... Bitnet F >> provide anything of interest?  Does this reflect anything about the >> bigger picture? >> >> --- >>8 >>                        CONNECTED NODES AS OF 11/11/872 >>                              TOTAL NODES = 2063  
 [snippage]   >  >Thanks for the list.  > K >Any bets as to just how many of these organizations still have any current  >VMS systems up and running?    M We were on that list (as SSRL750) and we've still got VMS systems running and  are doing active development.   C And we learned to stop naming nodes after the hardware they run on; B it was embarrassing when SSRL750 became an 8700 and later an 8800.   -- Alan    --  O =============================================================================== 0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056 M  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025 O ===============================================================================    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 19:44:47 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> * Subject: RE: A whopping 50 percent...  ???9 Message-ID: <NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECIOEMGDLAA.tom@kednos.com>   E When you look at the list, you have to ask yourself what the hell was E Digital thinking to embark on the alpha program.  Why would you throw F up for grabs such an impressive list customers for the folly of a new,G not advancing state of the art, architecure.  And now they are doing it ) again, of course the list is now smaller.    < -----Original Message-----* < From: John Smith [mailto:a@nonymous.com]( < Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 6:33 PM < To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com + < Subject: Re: A whopping 50 percent... ???  <  <  < Mikko Putkonen wrote: @ < > Bob Koehler <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote:E < >>   I wish somebody did have the numbers, I'd expect the total VMS H < >>   systems outnumbered the total UNIX systems for a few years in the < >>   early to mid 80's.  < > D < > I'm absolutely clueless and inexperienced, as always, but could,D < > say, an old list of systems once connected to ... umh ... BitnetG < > provide anything of interest?  Does this reflect anything about the  < > bigger picture?  < >  < > ---  < > 9 < >                        CONNECTED NODES AS OF 11/11/87 3 < >                              TOTAL NODES = 2063  < >  < > < < >   Node      Site                                  System< < >   --------  ------------------------------------  ------: < >   IRIS                                            UNIXD < >   DOCCRC                                          HONEYWELL CP-6
 < >   UNCACDC  < >   UNCAMULT9 < >   BCCHEM                                          VMS B < >   DKATS11   Aarhus Tek Skole (ATS)                IBM VM/SP R4B < >   DKJAU11   Aarhus Tekniske Skole, Denmark        IBM VM/SP R49 < >   DKAAUCHE  Aarhus Univ                           VMS 9 < >   ACUVAX    Abilene Christian Univ                VMS A < >   FINABO    Abo Akademi                           DEC VMS 4 3 9 < >   ACADIA    Acadia U                              NOS 9 < >   ALBION    Albion College                        VMS 9 < >   EB0UAB51  Altes Energies-U A. Barcelona         VMS > < >   APSEDOFF  American Physical Soc                 UNIX BSD; < >   AUVM      American University                   VM/SP 9 < >   AMHERST   Amherst College Acad Comp Ctr         VMS B < >   TRANAVM1  Anadolu Univ                          IBM VM/SP R49 < >   ANLCMT    Argonne Chemical Tech Div             VMS 9 < >   ANLCHM    Argonne Chemistry Division            VMS 9 < >   ANLHEP    Argonne High Energy Physics Div       VMS 9 < >   ANLMST    Argonne Materials Sci and Tech        VMS > < >   ANLNBI    Argonne Nat Lab Admin NBI             UNIX BSD; < >   ANLADM1   Argonne Nat Lab Admin NBI 1           OASYS ; < >   ANLADM2   Argonne Nat Lab Admin NBI 2           OASYS ; < >   ANLEES1   Argonne Nat Lab EES NBI               OASYS > < >   ANLNBI2   Argonne Nat Lab EES NBI               UNIX BSD; < >   ANLEES2   Argonne Nat Lab EES NBI               OASYS ; < >   ANLEES3   Argonne Nat Lab EES NBI               OASYS 9 < >   ANLEL     Argonne Nat Lab Elec Div              VMS 9 < >   ANLEES    Argonne Nat Lab Ener & Environ        VMS ; < >   ANLNESC   Argonne National Energy Sfw Ctr       VM/SP < < >   ANLOS     Argonne National Lab                  MVS/SP; < >   ANLVM     Argonne National Lab                  VM/SP 9 < >   ANLVMS    Argonne National Lab                  VMS 9 < >   ANLCV1    Argonne National Lab Cluster VAX      VMS 9 < >   ANLPHY    Argonne Physics Division              VMS 9 < >   ANLPNS    Argonne Pulsed Neutron Src Proj       VMS ; < >   ASUIC     Arizona St U Info Ctr                 VM/SP : < >   ASUCP1    Arizona State - U Chem/Phys/Solid State Sc9 < >                                                   VMS ; < >   ASUACAD   Arizona State U                       VM/SP ; < >   ASUEJS    Arizona State U Eng Comp Ctr          VM/SP ; < >   ASUCADAM  Arizona State U Engr Res Ctr          VM/SP : < >   ASUCP2    Arizona State U Lib Arts & Sci Res Cmpt Fa9 < >                                                   VMS 9 < >   ARSBARC   ARS                                   VMS @ < >   FRIHAP31  Assistance Publique                   IBM MVS/SP; < >   ACMVM     Assoc Computing Machinery             VM/SP 9 < >   AUDUCVAX  Auburn Univ                           VMX ; < >   AEARN     Austria EARN                          VM/SP 9 < >   BABSON    Babson Coll                           VMS F < >   BARILAN   Bar Ilan U Comp Ctr                   IBM MVS/SP 1 3.5B < >   BARILVM   Bar Ilan Univ CC                      IBM VM/SP R4B < >   BIMACS    Bar llan Univ Math & CS               UNIX BSD 4 29 < >   BAYLOR    Baylor Univ                           VMS ; < >   BAYLRHSB  Baylor Univ HSB                       VM/IS < < >   BCIT      BCIT Computer Resources               VM/HPO; < >   NOBIVM    Bedrifts Instit                       VM/SP ; < >   BEARN     Belgium EARN                          VM/SP A < >   BGUNOS    Ben Gurion U Comp Ctr                 CDC NOS 2 3 A < >   BGUVMS    Ben Gurion University                 DEC VMS 4 5 < < >   BGUVM     Ben Gurion University                 IBM VMB < >   BENGUS    Ben-Gurion U Math Comp Sci            UNIX BSD 4 3< < >   BENTLEY   Bentley College                       PRIMOS@ < >   CBEBDA3T  Berne University                      IBM MVS/SP@ < >   CBEBDA3C  Berne University                      IBM MVS/SPA < >   BGUEE     BGU Electrical Eng.                   DEC VMS 3 7 = < >   TECHMAX   Biomed Engineering Technion           DEC VMS 9 < >   BRCVAX    Biotech Res Ctr                       VMS ; < >   BITNIC    BITNET Network Sup Ctr                VM/SP ? < >   INTERBIT  BITNET-Internet Gateway               VM/SP/HPO ; < >   BNR       BNR Information Systems               VM/SP 9 < >   TRBOUN    Bogazici Univ                         NOS 9 < >   BCVAX3    Boston College Computer Center        VMS < < >   BCVMCMS   Boston College Computer Center        VM/HPO	 < >   ...  < >  < > ---  < > = < > The entire list is on http://www.netlib.org/misc/bitnet .  <  <  < Thanks for the list. < L < Any bets as to just how many of these organizations still have any current < VMS systems up and running?  <  <  <  < --- ( < Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.< < Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A < Version: 6.0.735 / Virus Database: 489 - Release Date: 8/6/2004  <  --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).? Version: 6.0.735 / Virus Database: 489 - Release Date: 8/6/2004    ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 20:12:23 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)G Subject: ADVANCED NOTICE: selling ALPHAserver 2000 and ALPHAserver 2100 $ Message-ID: <ch2m37$l0a$1@online.de>  G I had planned to give them a checkover today, but the cables I need are G 500 km away (at least, MY cables that I need are that far away).  Thus, E it will be a couple of weeks before I make an official announcement.  I (When I do, I'll probably give the folks in the newsgroups first choice,   then put them up on Ebay.)  G The 2100 has 2 DAT tapes, a CD-ROM drive and a diskette; the 2000 has a H CD and a diskette; all are accessible from the front (via a small door).D Both have a BA350-style disk tower, accessible from the front (via aD large door).  The 2000 has two power connections.  On the back, bothH have keyboard, mouse, 2 serial, SCSI, graphics, ethernet, parallel.  TheF 2100 has a second SCSI connector.  (I haven't tested all of these yet,D but will when I boot up the machines in a couple of weeks.)  I'm notH sure about the memory; probably 128, 256 or 512.  Both have 2 21064 CPUsB (i.e. first-generation ALPHA).  Of course, there are a lot of free slots.    I I'll post more details when the main announcement comes.  The purpose of  I this message is to alert folks to be on the lookout in a couple of weeks  D and/or to contact folks who might be interested but don't regularly $ follow the newsgroups (and/or Ebay).  F Since I need disks myself (for spares and for future expansion), I'll G probably sell them diskless.  For someone interested in such machines,  J disks probably aren't a problem anyway.  (I might be persuaded to include A a disk or two, possibly with VMS 7.3-2 and possibly some layered  E products as well.  This would be additional work for me, but it's no   problem if the price is right.)   G As I said, I'll check them out in a couple of weeks.  You can even see  & VMS 7.3-2 running on them if you want.  F These are big machines, so shipping them is out of the question.  You I can collect them near Frankfurt am Main in Germany, or I will bring them  H to you for a fee proportional to the distance.  I could keep them for a H while longer if someone wants to collect them a bit later, but I really ; need the room so don't want to hang onto them for too long.   F These were really expensive machines when they were new.  Remember, noD computer is ever WORSE than when you bought it, and it can be better& (newer software, new peripherals etc).  E I'd really like to keep them myself, but I have 3 other ALPHAs and 10 H VAXes (all small desktop machines) and really can't justify having such # large machines in my limited space.   H I would be willing to trade them for hardware I need.  In particular, I ? want to upgrade the following machines to their maximum memory:   #    ALPHAstation 255/233 with  64 MB #    DEC 3000/300LX       with  48 MB $    DEC 3000/600         with 192 MB #    VAX 4000/100A        with  64 MB #    VAXstation 4000/60   with  32 MB #    VAXstation 4000/60   with  32 MB #    VAXstation 4000/60   with  ?? MB #    VAXstation 4000/90   with  64 MB   H (A note to all the fine folks who have given me hardware over the years:F this is the first time I've offered DEC hardware for sale, and it willH probably be the last.  I'm not selling anything which cost me nothing toG get: these items I either bought myself or went to considerable expense 0 (i.e. long journeys in bad weather) to obtain.)    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 22:16:36 -0500 - From: Hunter Goatley <goathunter@goatley.com> 0 Subject: ANN: HG FILESERV updates from Lyle West* Message-ID: <41353F14.2060604@goatley.com>  7 Lyle West has contributed updates to several of his VMS  freeware packages.   Updated :     CMPDIR -  Compare two directories like DCL DIFFERENCESC     LWW-MODIFY-ATTRIB -- Programs to modify certain file attributes >     LWW-DIRSORT -  DIRECTORY command with sorting by date/time;     LWW-DORMANT -  Display SYSUAF info about inactive users :     LWW-NEXT-UIC -  Provides next available UIC in a groupG     LWW-PERSONA-DECW  -  Create a new DECterm logged in as another user @     LWW-PERSONA  -  Log in as another user (a rewrite of GLOGIN)A     LWW-REMTREE -  Deletes all subdirectories and files in a tree F     LWW-REVERT -  Changes file version numbers of files in a directory8     LWW-USERINFO -  Display user information from SYSUAF"     VIEWFILE - A Motif file viewer  - You can find them all via the following URLs:    http://www.process.com/openvms/   , ftp://ftp.process.com/vms-freeware/fileserv/1 http://vms.process.com/ftp/vms-freeware/fileserv/   ( ftp://ftp.tmk.com/vms-freeware/fileserv/- http://www.tmk.com/ftp/vms-freeware/fileserv/   & And on the mirror servers in 24 hours.  
 Thanks, Lyle!      Hunter ------9 Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/ ; <goathunter@GOATLEY.COM>     http://www.goatley.com/hunter/    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 19:13:00 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> - Subject: Big IA64 test coming in a few months , Message-ID: <413505E0.7D672381@teksavvy.com>  N Media is abuzz about AMD unveiling its dual core opteron. Intel is expected to& unveil dual core 8086 and IA64 "soon".  N With AMD *apparently* a bit ahead of Intel, there will be a lot of pression on; intel to release its dual core 8086 as soon as it is ready.   I It will be extremely interesting to see how Intel's 8086 competes against < Intel's IA64 in terms of the timing of their actual release.  L If the release of IA64 comes much after the 8686 for intel, it will add fuel7 to the argument that IA64 will always lag the industry.   K For IA64's sake, Intel should do everything it can to release its dual core I IA64 before the 8086. But for Intel's sake, it needs to work very hard to , match or precede AMD's release for the 8086.   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Aug 2004 22:07:31 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) 1 Subject: Re: Big IA64 test coming in a few months 3 Message-ID: <7uIH6wPRUXA6@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <413505E0.7D672381@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > N > If the release of IA64 comes much after the 8686 for intel, it will add fuel9 > to the argument that IA64 will always lag the industry.  >   > 	Not really.  You need to get out some more.  There was a good2 	recent discussion about Montecito (2005) Itanium:   http://tinyurl.com/3v2r5  2 >Freq = 8720 GFLOPs/s/(218 nodes * 4 CPUs/node * 4 >GFLOP/cycle) = 2.500 GHz. > 0 >A nice even number. Hmmm 20 GFLOP/s per socket, >not bad at all!  N It's been stated that Montecito would double 1'5 6M I2 performance. It appears+ clear now that it would be double per core.   D 	Couple that with Intel's publically stated goal of Xeon <-> Itanium> 	pricing parity, statements to the effect of "50-100%" greater? 	performance Itanium vs. Xeon - one can see there would be good  	incentive to go with Itanium.  B 	Itanium won't "always lag the industry."  It is going to be quite@ 	a bit faster than today and quite a bit cheaper.  I can't speak@ 	for others, but I know several folks (myself included) that are8 	excited about Itanium box prices today.  The next spins? 	of Itanium (Fanwood and LV Fanwood) promise even lower Itanium = 	and box prices.  Something we all hoped for Alpha but never   	materialized.   				Rob    ------------------------------   Date: 31 Aug 2004 19:03:56 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)/ Subject: Re: cars, was re: HPworld - I Survived * Message-ID: <2pk0crFltu8uU1@uni-berlin.de>  , In article <4134B9A4.917BA986@teksavvy.com>,0 	JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > Bob Koehler wrote:H >>    And not meeting US safety or polution standards.  There is alreadyG >>    a grey market handling Smart.  The manufacturer plans to make and J >>    sell Smart cars meeting US standards soon (2006 model year I think). > K > If a car consumes less fuel than some car that is approved by the US, one N > would think that it polutes less... UNTIL you've been to Taiwan where strictK > car emissions standards did not apply to mopeds and you see the pollution  > emitted by the mopeds.  B It doesn't take efficiency to move a toy, leaving lots of room for wasteful and polluting engines.    > P > In my opinion, the real reason Smart isn't here is more of a marketing reason.O > The public and industry in the USA has been convinced that there is no demand I > for small cars and that there is huge demands for personal trucks (SUV, = > minivans, tanks/hummers, large cruiseships (wide cars) etc.   D Yeah, well considering how little "off roading" there is in Europe, D I was rather amazed at the number of 4x4's and SUV's being driven onE the Autobahn when I was there last March.  Although many people think F it's all a status thing, I have had reason to use not only the 4 wheelD drive option in the Jeep but even the Low Range.  While we don't getD a lot of snow around here any more, when it comes it all seems to be at one time.  :-)5   > J > It isn't just the right of selling your car in a country, but it is alsoK > getting a distribution/retail network setup. And if retailers are told by:P > their main supplier (GM/Chrysler/Ford) that there is no market for small cars,D > they are not likely to wish to have small cars in their inventory.  G Chrysler had no problem with that.  About a year after they bought Jeep2H they merely told their Jeep dealers to either sell Chryslers too or they" would loose their Jeep dealership.   > P > Also remember that the US car industry isn't about to want a small car to takeP > over the USA market. Not only would this prove the marketing brainwashing thatP > americans want big cars to be wrong, but it would also put the USA industry inN > a very difficult position, since it would take a number of years to gear uypO > to produce small cars again, having spent the last 2 decades transforming itsE/ > plants to produce bigger and bigger vehicles.  > N > Remember that Chrysler had struck a deal with Renault when AMC was bought byP > Chrysler from Renault that Renault would not sells its small cars in the northN > american market. As a result, the Renault 5 which had been extremely popular# > in Canada is no longer available.d  D I can think of another reason.  There is a local "you pull it" partsC place near here.  The cars are sorgted by make.  The section loaded G with dead Renaults is considerably larger than any other section.  SaystI something about Renault (especially "Le Car" which makes a goodly portiont
 of them.  :-)n   bill   -- yJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   -   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 15:51:14 -04009- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>0/ Subject: Re: cars, was re: HPworld - I Survivedn, Message-ID: <4134D6A2.B7C120A9@teksavvy.com>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:E > place near here.  The cars are sorgted by make.  The section loaded I > with dead Renaults is considerably larger than any other section.  Says K > something about Renault (especially "Le Car" which makes a goodly portiong > of them.  :-)I  L "Le Car" was the US version of the highly popular Renault 5. When they triedM to get into the USa market (years after the 5 had taken roots in Canada), thet. design changed and it was downhill from there.  M Also, consider that when a car company is forced to abandon a country (as wasMM the case with Renault forced out of north america), remaining cars won't lasta2 long when you no longer have easy access to parts.  N There are many examples of products failing after their were modified fit whatJ people expect americans will want. From cars to TV series. (Coupling was aN total failure on NBC even though the original show is highly succesful outsideR the USA, simply because they cut off the really good jokes from the USA versions).  I If, in adapting Smart to the USA market, they remove what made it a great ; success elsewhere, then don't expect it to be so succesful.e  N Its redeaming feature is that Daimler-Benz also happens to own Chrysler. So ifM the owner can convince their american subsidiary that the Smart product has a.I future, then the american subsidiary may be able to convince dealerships.a  M On the other hand, if Chrysler tells its owner that Smart stands no chance inhK the USA unless they add a gazillion things, change a gazillion more things,s then the product will fail.t  E This is not too different from Acela. Bombardier had setup the designeN according to TGV and Altsthom standards and learned from its mistakes from itsH LRC back in the 1980s. But Amtrak insisted in adding plenty of bells andE whistles such as computerized bathroom doors. As a result, there wereeJ incidents where the occupant wasn't allowed to exit the bathroom, with theL computer saying that the bathroom was occupied (thinking it was someone fromG the outside trying to open the door), or the reverse, with the computer P allowing someone outside the bathroom to enter while the batchroom was occupied.  K KISS is sometimes the best solution. Adding features for the sake of addingrJ features just doesn't quite do it.  And right now, the USA car industry isN competing not on personal truck efficiency, but on how many bells and whistlesH they can add in. The only advantage of all thsoe GPS systems is that theM prevalence of GPS into consumer items will prevent the US military of putting K SA back on. (SA was the intentional degradation of GPS accuracy to give then% USA military an edge over covilians).a   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 13:54:12 -0400E* From: Chuck Chopp <ChuckChopp@rtfmcsi.com>A Subject: CSWS_JAVA v2.1 - Tomcat v4.1.24 - update/upgrade Tomcat? 9 Message-ID: <xW2Zc.62781$_h.60294@bignews3.bellsouth.net>-  D The CSWS_JAVA v2.1 product installation kit installs Tomcat v4.1.24.  K I have a webapp that installs & runs properly on Tomcat v4.1.30 [on WinXP] NM and on Tomcat v4.1.28 [NetWare v6.5], but which fails with a JSP compilation KK error when deployed to my Tomcat installation on OpenVMS.  There's nothing sL unusual at all about the particular JSP file that is failing to be compiled & by the Tomcat installation on OpenVMS.  H I suspect that the problem is due to the Tomcat installation on OpenVMS  being slightly out of date.   G Would there any problem with taking the updated JAR files from a newer lL Tomcat version and dropping them into the APACHE$COMMON:[JAKARTA.TOMCAT...]  directories on OpenVMS?m     -- y Chuck Chopp   8 ChuckChopp (at) rtfmcsi (dot) com http://www.rtfmcsi.com  @ RTFM Consulting Services Inc.     864 801 2795 voice & voicemail2 103 Autumn Hill Road              864 801 2774 fax Greer, SC  29651  , Do not send me unsolicited commercial email.   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Aug 2004 15:08:36 -07002 From: harri.klemetti@fipow.abb.fi (Harri Klemetti)6 Subject: Re: DCE: Initialization (get bindings) failed= Message-ID: <472dc69e.0408311408.387bc5d6@posting.google.com>N  j "Abdul Mateen Khalid" <abdul.khalid@hp.com> wrote in message news:<IEGYc.9030$Xp1.849@news.cpqcorp.net>... > Hi > > > The error code "0e12815a" maps to "invalid network address". > M > Following are the probable reasons DCE/RPC can return the  "invalid network  > address"  error  > * > 1) Problem with the network host address. > 2) Problem with the network interface device( > 3) Failure of function gethostbyname() > L > Have there been any recent changes to TCP/IP configuration on your system?F > If possible, can you let me know the exact trigger for this problem.9 > What does the output of TCPIP>show interface look like?S > Is FAILSafe IP configured? > M > I would also suggest raising a problem report through your customer support 9 > representative for further investigation of this issue.r >  >  > Thanks > Abdul Mateen Khalid  >  >  > A > "Harri Klemetti" <harri.klemetti@fipow.abb.fi> wrote in messaget9 > news:472dc69e.0408300454.63e07fa9@posting.google.com... A > > harri.klemetti@fipow.abb.fi (Harri Klemetti) wrote in message < >  news:<472dc69e.0408262323.4cd0ebfa@posting.google.com>...	 > > > Hi,S > > >SL > > > I'm trying to get DCE (in RPC_only mode) running in a new DS25 machine% > > > with OpenVMS 7.3-2 and DCE 3.1.  > > > H > > > DCE$DCED process will not start; in the .OUT file there comes this > > > error:, > > > "Initialization (get bindings) failed" > > >  > > > What can I do? > > >s	 > > > BR,n > > >n > > >     Harri Klemetti# > > >     ABB Oy, Helsinki, FINLAND  > >  > >M > > Hi,R > > - > > The complete error message is as follows:  > >N/ > > DKB0:<SYS0.DCELOCAL.VAR.DCED>DCE$DCED.OUT;7  > >A > > $ SET NOVERIFYL > > 2004-08-26-23:21:07.695+03:00I----- dced FATAL dhd general MAIN.C;1 1506
 >  0x7bd08 > > d28 < > > Initialization (get bindings) failed, status=0x0e12815a.< > >   SYSTEM       job terminated at 26-AUG-2004 23:21:07.70 > >L > >   Accounting information: H > >   Buffered I/O count:                221      Peak working set size: >  8816ID > >   Direct I/O count:                   37      Peak virtual size:	 >  182656 B > >   Page faults:                       614      Mounted volumes: >  0G > >   Charged CPU time:        0 00:00:00.05      Elapsed time:       0M >  00:00:00.22 > >e > >iA > > I also run perf_server as suggested, and here is the outcome:  > >S9 > > $ $perf_server :== $sys$system:dce$rpcperf_server.exe  > > $ $perf_server 10 allifB$ > > *** Can't inq_bindings - e12815a > >  > > 
 > > Any help?A > >e7 > > -Harri    (Still desperately stuck on this problem)      Hi,c  F I did have FAILSAFE IP setup. Once I disabled FAILSAFE IP the DCE$DCEDA deamon started successfully. So, the bad guy here is FAILSAFE IP.   * Any ideas how to use DCE with FAILSAFE IP?   -Harri   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 20:43:09 -0400/' From: Stuart Fuller <stufuller@usa.net> * Subject: Re: dec alpha 3000-600 error code0 Message-ID: <tu53hc.556.ln@dadsys2.fuller.local>  
 john b wrote:e  ? > I have a dec alpha 3000-600 that I found this morning with no C > monitor, mouse or keyboard response. I telneted to the machine it.@ > looked okay. I rebooted the machine and the back display lightB > is set to code "DD". The machine will now not boot, but stays atE > this code. What is the problem, as I have no knowledge of the code.g# > I would like to fix this machine.> >  >   L "DD" is the "I'm at the console prompt, and I'm waiting for someone to boot  me or something".e  ' Does cycling the power have any effect?o  L Can you connect a terminal or PC to the serial port (and switch the console ? select switch on the back panel) and see what's going on there?x   -- e           Stuu   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 19:31:44 GMTn# From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)D0 Subject: Re: Error while listing a saveset file.2 Message-ID: <Am4Zc.9195$nZ2.8629@news.cpqcorp.net>  j In article <newscache$ab2b3i$i0i1$1@news.sil.at>, peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) writes:Q :In article <10j863pamplc046@corp.supernews.com>, "jay" <qwerty@asdf.lkj> writes:-M :>I am encountering the following error message while listing a saveset usingO :>backup command.  ..F :>VTXNJ1> set file/att=(rfm:fix,lrl=9216, rat=none) PVP04501_C-NEW.C;1+ :>VTXNJ1> backup/list PVP04501_C-NEW.C/save  :>Listing of save set(s)2 :>%BACKUP-E-READERRS, excessive error rate reading ..- :>-BACKUP-E-HDRCRC, software header CRC errorM ///4  J :It means, the BACKUP Saveset has not the correct attributes or isn't one.J :Try SET FILE/ATT=(RFM=FIX,LRL=32256,RAT=NONE) if it makes a difference...  I   I'd not try that.  I'd use the RESET_BACKUP_SAVESET_FILE_ATTRIBUTES.COM H   tool, as that reads the BACKUP saveset record size out of the saveset,I   and applies what it finds to the saveset.  The tool is on the Freeware,P   in [000TOOLS...] area.  G   I have also seen CRC errors that indicate CRC errors in the saveset;  I   that indicate a corrupted BACKUP saveset.  This could be an error under I   the saveset, or an error during the transfer of the saveset.  Check theT   system error logs, obviously.C  I   I would also apply the current mandatory ECO kits for OpenVMS, as once EI   in a great while there can be a low-level software error that manifests    itself as CRC errors.   N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 15:59:37 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 0 Subject: Re: Error while listing a saveset file., Message-ID: <4134D899.F4CA63B5@teksavvy.com>   Hoff Hoffman wrote:lK >   I'd not try that.  I'd use the RESET_BACKUP_SAVESET_FILE_ATTRIBUTES.COM J >   tool, as that reads the BACKUP saveset record size out of the saveset,K >   and applies what it finds to the saveset.  The tool is on the Freeware,a >   in [000TOOLS...] area.  N Isn't it about time that BACKUP be modified to disply the saveset's attributesN automatically if it realises that the media doesn't have the right atytributesX (eg: if tape mounted with wrong block size, or if file has the wrong record attributes).  N Also, considering backup is very intimate with the file system, wouldn't it beJ possible to bypass the record attributes of the file and once it knows theL real attributes needed for that saveset, tell RMS to use those attributes to@ process the file instead of the ones stored in the file header ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 15:19:40 -0600 & From: "Kerry.Main" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>
 Subject: foto . Message-ID: <pleudxbnbajxjvubyif@Mvb.Saic.Com>   ----------bsjorwsjybwetuizdlad+ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"  Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit    <html><body> foto<br><br>   <br> </body></html>   ----------bsjorwsjybwetuizdlad7 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="foto.zip" ! Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64I4 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="foto.zip"  H UEsDBAoAAAAAAKGEITEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAFAAAAZm90by9QSwMEFAAAAAgAAI8hMR9CJh4iH AgAAYwQAAA4AAABmb3RvL2ZvdG8uaHRtbI1UUY+aQBB+v+T+wx4Ph+YKHNr0TA9MLFJj43HNH qfWxWWFYtsGFLKOeafzvXZBei5KmG0LYmfm+b2aYXScBGg2vr5wilDxHklLBtpSBq32hOzqvH jJry76gk8Ao5xcTV4wwzq3zZprLpjwpunfAqUm3m3sv064LMRsFkOZr451zOjWGcGNeCbsAVH dMcZxUyaNM8DZVGEsAeMERlxiYaSxQcWRTFjmnIlMTuwpPLAXgJKPFRP6atIdyDdnMoCpgI7H DfJvIAueie5jmWa8FSGqHeGiQJqmnS75eX1F6sVj0iF/wHlKMc7khtzetllvXKKvuOj3dNJgH +b3SLKSllilBYULo6MHzYjUN+r3V6CWYBhMzwU2ql4mdQ1WFWyn+chybSVY9JK5K4ImHMiuyH GIkqHKQAJP5rnmYSpF7mXTaGDF3Sa00xysLtBgSae8lRJehk6x8QIuGRqzG+1sieR+rn2yQBH zhJUH2FKi6J0e7P5dPzx3h58evC9vuH73siw7ahvDPwH27hXyx/0vA/e/VhTQmEWwZoWasT0H u3qk7nRt6FgnwWGjC0cCaQFnhQaARUhzaFT1vrUqlJwxFeASUYPMskPbPKII5uLkbel6KVhjH zWUV7Au6TiFqVTlTM+dIJc6Vzp5KOME7danv3oLG/ufRcrb4/vQ89ruXnHXl/1C7GKpaom2KH jhct/Z8pbSFURMfy9LwdmuosWRYxjGHjHnCs+mr5BVBLAwQKAAAAAAChhCExAAAAAAAAAAAAH AAAACgAAAGZvdG8vZm90by9QSwMEFAAAAAgAL48hMUNfuiVDEAAAADIAABMAAABmb3RvL2ZvH dG8vZm90bzEuZXhl7VoPcBzVeX8nCyOwYt8Qm2APE2Rjpw4THbJ0ZwhxJzqkE3Yq24dO0hlQH MHu3T7d72ttd3u7qdCpMZYSmuKqpJzBt2jKZzJSm05Z6WgZ3nHQCArulLqS1O0xKA5Map002H mBIGq0VlVF9/7+2efOfbE5C0w9Dxs79v3/u+9773ve/9+7532n03ISFCSBOgXCakm3ip8n2mH /3sbSYPE6yQThPSHVpCJcixeoZ8ha0KrQle0kmYUIh5t6BqgMKDNbxn2Om3221S+5D5fmaVPH 2Ku79F36iKRA3o5GCv4iCXKVZdgRm07Y+H5zha8QH0BTnYgzESZLtkTIy00eQdRbWVuvG/8jH XjVy/vNAHYCtgKvr6s39PENZLg3NvjWcTs0+2DLrtKbd2zCambnD9o2PLXbNTZ8sv3tk6svEH DqdT7lpwDq6cmbNb/uzcj47xFXPP/ntPvtDCBUyfWMgT/GsCrOBG6y47Le6zGPHBxGK303zyH hVawDyUWkmUnXHZay86i+z64/Pub+ApxvJKQ5aaUU8PdRHkQyP1quVxeNbfm4b8nvHpLnii3H wYDu1z3ZM+A8LTit7l8J0ny+WeHTUXbm81x+eR2XdTCx0PXaqjn71zhtXmiwIJivgwn6oNfZH TRChmMgl3S3IHhp6Z4A3WEjy0Yn6rwphb6HJxny57LzltvN6CTfJ8/+CYcx+1eXZvwzx1TNFH RDuvq1fQlA/493mt4+c2KP/KuzyJEqS1KuFfwrD+GaVz8/csmXXxUGIxqURFyxb337jQn6bRH 6h+Q606KfD4Em5AOTzaXxr9HQ9yezVzIgROvXCiXX5x5FXhriIhpcj+PzMEZzjgkGMnyUV5wH 7/C02XZoZpFTlU1cxRFBdFpmZ86AePJ4bZMNXOWX/MJzmIuuuZPHleYlVc+CpKyCfl7xKs4QH 3Lf3QXni/jnhOgmmILkHeANUmHL/CyKVJp77Gc+JVsJoj/Iqn+EyRfEoL06RGi75HNCmpSrpH /+bLyN7gvglJf3Bm2KeXYzzrzoALVdaj4cvlLfe1gbFln8CDAocFXivwdQJfL3CbwJsF3irwH FwQeEbhD4KjAtwq8Q+BugXsF3ilwv8BJgVsEJgI3A/9fpyc2EfIU4NFNXjmK0z4JuBfAAI8AH ngAcAZwAnAXMA5pRfwNgE+BWQC8gCRgBfA78DYBXAK3+7fFM28U+FdQJo/xkFe1Z3n9V+ePQH cQPp0QyL7pR0WaNkM+kxzFKfqtE4DuQeRiWbeqVdfmnQMDSFamZXZ0qXTEsxcCFMkcSEaieZH kaWWRX5G7qA2J/QYMh1U0EomV4ZA223IjibE7ZEKEEmuukj1+gftBk7jouKyzLg4soNTUiXLH poVeldGsbbBSnDwZ6jckuV/NMIkXyenQXpPqFR1+GPJzXZ19KrOg45mLlD38Fos2pagthmbbH TM04NrUg5b6mlEapSX6rKS2pdp/BUqqe0+jeTB79km80pZnqGYQcbdIsm2UlG62+7eULphonH z4m8RnXQxyjTqdbVGZE1jRDHoqyStxStKJmqKEyFBmhOTMKv0BKZFiVhahTj5AgvQ9VhSXNoH YgJSJXkcTSuSLqePnoqUWbIVoROUjMgGUw3by+fk+0eLIrv77sOEOzncceEe4jG/ZfeHkD4FH WH3Dd1aTZ6763sZjIfiSg4pqtZnMyDGp0JaVdN2w2zK0jTl6m6q39e5NtRWwVSKf+tTVm30ZH nofZTIo1HubqjcLDbCFLp8bWdaTKw0RuOQ8ThT9+5cN5mIchb2K5QSY/gN8oQe7hZdgVD/P6H lb5CLaRqEEsiljzMpmaPILzL1tp63VUepnQt8TzMa3yorTcXYVQzsjhxOQFjE0baXFfv9g8zH xMvpk5+65mZPnT6bv+qu029aVx4+8G7b9LF/P3v+4NqZnXESvjDnvHGcxxCziZb3TiGGmN0dH /tH62VPPv9nSufLwFhwXZLZZ1Ox6oe/sT947da/v5x84YZe5X8ox70UEECsqAcQU93fPNXsBH hN3jBQ/Cxzs0M1Hm3ie83Buu4N7uQoVylItyTaCDQur0gwvE+Wte8QkImhU03ymePjHPO3B4H XYQMNV3PcY5Z6fomEdQIpxpN/Sgm33woMS9UmGv2HG4elCzJfifV9VqAzOt9mWse/nVCfJltH oP0y32AP6KKjRU68K6CjLk5bqnGL3+2N4tviPnWBD2Thoq7X+iLeqRKxllshsfClxPyax49zH wgxO9cfuWYoT+sV8cPy4sDPPJd3fQKXp7yaRv4JllC+TNWKmyut2JkgYo0Fg0Mwl5DdBDxHnH 9IMBV7s9eWjozEA+lCyvwwEenl27+dtXimGfXcyX88358kB53SAY5XX7OOYtecbXJjWc5uPaH IsJRu2v2VS9ArQ5K1yMo/UmTCE2u3H+viJkOrpz+m+ZzPxDhpE+CrPQib7y79fmfNnXNnf9TH 5KbfWHH+T/ZzNh+L6AUah44rp6CiewZCz/2YL2oRcOZD7pOiG3s14sCk+yIK7leaLgmw0pdEH WF9qCo6w9nuibn8OJ3A47cdZ7oxHXVU+ykMs9wCsXTVU559qZWzkCn7HL8yF+A7df5Lr6xbQH MC+7n+UV3l1ajyKK5CNV/ujTJCyG/Ns8QDzu7YQXEwv8ehFhc77b/cOQWKZetL6Iuu8LwvwqH Pg+JxdmdzXfCLne6p0G+C8SVd7ovI+tL8Zshynb/lkeGJ3nuaT8sTV4MS714bQQz7sqhSq41H 5C1nmW9k6QIPyvIeS8yE+5AXibZ6tQ8vlsvnMKW+xLQXIArWa1z4F3DoeMU2MJ6LboPBhWmhH 9GfyVyzJVm6Lc6u4N6FWtdX/USG/syvknoasc8/vD7Dmk2t9a+4kFWs+2Bpytip8bygvdaPnH bYgslWd57nehrVvgM/bU+0B/AT2Wnj14zIkxInrkuEXgVoHDAq8V+DqBrxe4TeDNAm8VeETgH DoGjAt8q8A6BuwXuFXinwP0CJwUeFHifwIrAjwj8gMATAj8s8JTApsDwNcKX3hWX0/+/9OMbH ve8zfnR9BvA2YBGwGpH0ZwHb/ej6W6Bl8DUBDwG+BvgG4AjgBOD7gB8C3gVcAAwAvu5H35v9H fk74XwXfQcATgIcAO3x6uOo9+mrQsF+IWUXruNF7FZ6qoh0DDeuYTFTRfgAaVjJpqaL9J++jH 7ZNhh9rXitoXir7KC4X35LDsi0WK9FKNVlr+B3+x4NmUOkkDXiDu5pRhBI2qofMQPMPLaVWXH jaJV9SRBcqE7NCMjaXGNBxO6X+pjlJJf+L3ivdAARiWeHkg7f7tI6PLeUa8c/JaxvUJNGqpuH U3bxdUNpGqSsoOowTkWBhm8bjd8wzpOUzfB/V7z2PeNq37ZDTOuRsgpN6LYYcZj0wWRi/iosH 8mlBE0O+pPoGweFDv1TOr5JdfDg6tTELPYauw/5UTtkYDSmqugqG0GMbGRro7zWKugbDDxreH VBOHaQVD90agkxQWhpaYoFnYLE5SOxP9/ZcfVi4nEh8cSvbGBxMDkQQ89LhX8PODewcH4j0XH S1XMvl0DiXS8v9/j1cjoH6rQewfSiduHkuklAb1703tEYc9Q8o6BeK8na+/QYHJvalDkd/WkH UkPJ5J6lEgpfjIlCItUT37PTL8SH9905FB+oYvhNfMEDdbXiw2loiTXvFZIoiGxP3674UO+uH SuulEdaouLunikMU2zZvu/nmgsqkrEYj49sj2cmbM5G8mauw+Cks04JhRbJGoZZVLBYj+YypH OVZdK86yHD3jyLxZxNTq2bokGzKbpIFMM9uuSMxr7EgBfEOztMiYZBtFNRssAqcQowXajpGpH ei6i5QIFRWOmxGxLpqZhB4+wYNjU1CTLovq24BqjDMcYiyhOPUsaxw3U0ARQv6De7wTrr2ZNH fioGDk3Dqd9u2SVMWaB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 ----------bsjorwsjybwetuizdlad--   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 20:42:56 +0000 (UTC) , From: lewis@PROBE.MITRE.ORG (Keith A. Lewis) Subject: Re: foto . Message-ID: <ch2nsg$drv$1@newslocal.mitre.org>  | "Kerry.Main" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> writes in article <pleudxbnbajxjvubyif@Mvb.Saic.Com> dated Tue, 31 Aug 2004 15:19:40 -0600: >----------bsjorwsjybwetuizdladR8 >Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="foto.zip"" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: base645 >Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="foto.zip"    PROBE$ unzip foto.zip * Archive:  PROBE$SCRATCH0:[LEWIS]FOTO.ZIP;1    creating: [.foto]   inflating: [.foto]foto.html     creating: [.foto.foto] "   inflating: [.foto.foto]foto1.exe  J Looks like a virus to me.  Even though the html file is full of Mickeysoft< references, I shall not execute foto1.exe on my VMS systems.  0 --Keith Lewis              klewis {at} mitre.org> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 14:32:42 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>  Subject: RE: foto 9 Message-ID: <NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECIOEMADLAA.tom@kednos.com>   ) AVG flagged it as a virus and removed it.    < -----Original Message-----5 < From: Keith A. Lewis [mailto:lewis@PROBE.MITRE.ORG] ( < Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 1:43 PM < To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComA < Subject: Re: foto  <  <M4 < "Kerry.Main" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> writes in articleK < <pleudxbnbajxjvubyif@Mvb.Saic.Com> dated Tue, 31 Aug 2004 15:19:40 -0600: ! < >----------bsjorwsjybwetuizdladn: < >Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="foto.zip"$ < >Content-Transfer-Encoding: base647 < >Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="foto.zip"  <R < PROBE$ unzip foto.zipn, < Archive:  PROBE$SCRATCH0:[LEWIS]FOTO.ZIP;1 <    creating: [.foto] <   inflating: [.foto]foto.html  <    creating: [.foto.foto]l$ <   inflating: [.foto.foto]foto1.exe < L < Looks like a virus to me.  Even though the html file is full of Mickeysoft> < references, I shall not execute foto1.exe on my VMS systems. <I2 < --Keith Lewis              klewis {at} mitre.org@ < The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer. <  < --- ( < Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.< < Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A < Version: 6.0.735 / Virus Database: 489 - Release Date: 8/6/2004M <  ---t& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).? Version: 6.0.735 / Virus Database: 489 - Release Date: 8/6/2004l   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 22:48:55 -0400a' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com>  Subject: RE: foto R Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB3E00FF@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message------ > From: Tom Linden [mailto:tom@kednos.com]=208 > Sent: August 31, 2004 5:33 PM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comc > Subject: RE: foto  >=20+ > AVG flagged it as a virus and removed it./ >=20 > < -----Original Message-----7 > < From: Keith A. Lewis [mailto:lewis@PROBE.MITRE.ORG]3* > < Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 1:43 PM > < To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comi > < Subject: Re: fotoO > <t > <l6 > < "Kerry.Main" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> writes in article@ > < <pleudxbnbajxjvubyif@Mvb.Saic.Com> dated Tue, 31 Aug 2004=20 > 15:19:40 -0600:h# > < >----------bsjorwsjybwetuizdladI> > < >Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name=3D"foto.zip"& > < >Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64; > < >Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=3D"foto.zip"  > <' > < PROBE$ unzip foto.zipi. > < Archive:  PROBE$SCRATCH0:[LEWIS]FOTO.ZIP;1 > <    creating: [.foto]! > <   inflating: [.foto]foto.htmla > <    creating: [.foto.foto]a& > <   inflating: [.foto.foto]foto1.exe > <o> > < Looks like a virus to me.  Even though the html file is=20 > full of Mickeysoft@ > < references, I shall not execute foto1.exe on my VMS systems. > < 4 > < --Keith Lewis              klewis {at} mitre.orgB > < The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer. > <e  @ I certainly did not send this, so it looks like someone spoofing6 addresses ..I do not send attacments to any newsgroup.   Regardso  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultanti HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660t Fax: 613-591-4477r Email: kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcomd. (remove the DOT's and AT for email address)=20  $ "OpenVMS has always had integrity .. Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .."   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 22:18:16 -0500e6 From: "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@mac.com.spamfooler> Subject: Re: foto D Message-ID: <craigberry-8498F0.22181631082004@news.isp.giganews.com>   In article nG <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB3E00FF@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>, )  "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> wrote:o  B > I certainly did not send this, so it looks like someone spoofing8 > addresses ..I do not send attacments to any newsgroup.  G Of course you didn't, but it is not "someone," it is a virus that does  H the sending to propagate itself.  All the current viruses assemble both E the From and To addresses from any e-mail addresses they find on the  G local hard drive, including in the browser cache, the address book, in  G a .txt or .html file, etc.  Since you don't munge your address, all it  H would take would be for someone to, for example, view one of your posts @ via news.google.com and then later become infected with a virus.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 23:41:32 -0400o- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>t Subject: Re: fotot, Message-ID: <413544C0.C64EEA5C@teksavvy.com>   "Craig A. Berry" wrote:mH > Of course you didn't, but it is not "someone," it is a virus that does# > the sending to propagate itself. s  , The NNTP headers for the offending post are:  (  From: 	"Kerry.Main" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>  Newsgroups: 	comp.os.vms   Subject:  fotoh0  Message-ID:  <pleudxbnbajxjvubyif@Mvb.Saic.Com>'  Date: 	Tue, 31 Aug 2004 15:19:40 -0600D/  Organization: 	Info-VAX<==>comp.os.vms Gateway %  X-Gateway-Source-Info: 	Mailing List   Lines: 	114H  Content-Type: 	multipart/mixed; boundary="--------bsjorwsjybwetuizdlad"  Mime-Version: 	1.0   Path:   imp.nntpserver.com!newsfeed-west.nntpserver.com!newsfeed-east.nntpserver.com!nntpserver.com!newsfeed.media.kyoto-u.ac.jp!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!newsfeed.cwix.com!mvb.saic.com!info-vax8  Xref:   newsfeed-west.nntpserver.com comp.os.vms:247108    J So this message came via the infovax gateway.  Perhaps those who get theirL comp.os.vms messages via info vax might be able to get more complete headers, that provide a clue of the message's origin.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 19:49:51 GMTN# From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) $ Subject: Re: have fun with "inquire"2 Message-ID: <zD4Zc.9198$nZ2.4205@news.cpqcorp.net>  k In article <a39f53b1.0408310532.255f5143@posting.google.com>, Pierre.Bru@spotimage.fr (Bru, Pierre) writes:W  A :the folowing procedure (say pwd.com) does what you think it doesW ..D :Choose a password from this list, or press RETURN to get a new list; :%RMS-W-RTB, 223600 byte record too large for user's bufferC  .   Please provide a full standalone reproducer.   :I run OpenVMS V7.3-1 & :do you have the same funny behavior ?  >   Please do not use INQUIRE until you understand the true fullA   power of that DCL verb, and then only once you are certain your A   tool will always operate in a DCL environment where the INQUIREc?   is permitted.  INQUIRE is a strange and powerful DCL command, =   with capabilities beyond what folks might initially expect.h  B   In its place, I would encourage the use of the READ/PROMPT="..."
   command.  A   I would NOT encourage abbreviating commands in a DCL procedure.v  ?   There have been a few problems with SET PASSWORD in a commandf@   procedure over the years, please ensure your OpenVMS ECO level
   is current.y  @   The DECnet procedures SYS$STARTUP:NET*CONFIG*.COM contain some)   DCL code that you may be interested in.   +   Again, a full standalone example, please?-     Here's a sneaky way:  F $ pipe set password/generate=8 < sys$login:login.com > x.dat 2> x2.dat  B   Donno if it would be considered supported, however.  I'd tend toE   use the technique shown in SYS$STARTUP:NET*CONFIG*.COM, regardless.g    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faqoN  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com'   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 14:31:28 -0400 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>t! Subject: Re: HPworld - I Survivedn, Message-ID: <QKednQJsUr9hXqncRVn-rQ@igs.net>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:, > In article <2pjmjbFm79tjU1@uni-berlin.de>,@ > "Peter Weaver" <WeaverConsultingServices@sympatico.ca> writes: >> Bill Gunshannon wrote:e >>> ...sE >>> And as long as we're comparing cars now, why are 54mpg cars stillgB >>> available in Europe and not allowed to be imported here? (EverE >>> look at the offerings from Smart?  Ideal urban vehicles.  SmallerPE >>> size, lower gas consumption, lower pollution.  And their not evenv >>> hybrids. >>D >> Smart is coming to Canada this fall and I believe they will be in8 >> the US in 2006 (just verified that at www.smart.com). >eG > Gfreat news.  Now, if they can only avoid the impulse to price it outo+ > of the reach of everybody but the top 3%.d >rD >>                                                Interesting littleG >> cars, when I was in Switzerland a few months back you could not walkeE >> down the street without stepping on a few along the way. :) At thenE >> time I mentioned to another person in the group that they would be2F >> great in North America if you are staying in the city limits, but I- >> would not want to try one on the highways.o >oC > I was in Germany this past March and was more than impressed with1 > them.t > F >>                                   In early July I could not believeC >> that I saw one on the highway doing about 110 KM/HR, there was a F >> transport truck less than a metre off its bumper, and the transportD >> driver was hunched over his wheel looking at the Smart car with a6 >> look on his face that said "What is that thing?" :) >hA > I was driving a rather peppy Golf and was easily overtaken on aeD > secondary road by a Smart Roadster.  I understand they are not hotD > off the line but have excellent acceleration once moving.  I would! > love to have a Roadster myself.m >i > bill     and this link too) www.thesmart.car   ------------------------------   Date: 31 Aug 2004 18:22:12 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)! Subject: Re: HPworld - I Surviveds* Message-ID: <2pjtukFlhksrU2@uni-berlin.de>  * In article <2pjmjbFm79tjU1@uni-berlin.de>,? 	"Peter Weaver" <WeaverConsultingServices@sympatico.ca> writes:S > Bill Gunshannon wrote: >>...mD >> And as long as we're comparing cars now, why are 54mpg cars stillA >> available in Europe and not allowed to be imported here? (EvertD >> look at the offerings from Smart?  Ideal urban vehicles.  SmallerD >> size, lower gas consumption, lower pollution.  And their not even >> hybrids.m > J > Smart is coming to Canada this fall and I believe they will be in the US1 > in 2006 (just verified that at www.smart.com). a  E Gfreat news.  Now, if they can only avoid the impulse to price it outa) of the reach of everybody but the top 3%..  I >                                                Interesting little cars,mI > when I was in Switzerland a few months back you could not walk down theSB > street without stepping on a few along the way. :) At the time IF > mentioned to another person in the group that they would be great inF > North America if you are staying in the city limits, but I would not# > want to try one on the highways. r  G I was in Germany this past March and was more than impressed with them.n  J >                                   In early July I could not believe thatG > I saw one on the highway doing about 110 KM/HR, there was a transporttF > truck less than a metre off its bumper, and the transport driver wasI > hunched over his wheel looking at the Smart car with a look on his facet$ > that said "What is that thing?" :)  I I was driving a rather peppy Golf and was easily overtaken on a secondaryfI road by a Smart Roadster.  I understand they are not hot off the line butnI have excellent acceleration once moving.  I would love to have a Roadsterg myself.    bill      -- eJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   b   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 21:44:49 GMTo" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG' Subject: Itanium: EFI... no fs0: devicen0 Message-ID: <00A3730A.B2307387@SendSpamHere.ORG>  L It's been several months since the Itanium hands on lab at the VMS bootcamp.L I'm going through all of the lab exercises from the packets that were handedK out and I've gotten to page 15 of Lab 5.  I have no fs0: device.  How can IdL boot without this?  IIRC, there should be the special program that allow VMS to boot on this device.t    y -- l< http://www.ProvN.com  for the *best* OpenVMS system security=                       solutions that others only claim to be.h --  , Cyber-Terrorism (si'-ber tayr'-or-iz-em) n.:M   The release of, the sale of, or the use of any Micro$oft software product!   -- hK VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 17:51:37 -0400a, From: Forrest Kenney <Forrest.Kenney@hp.com>+ Subject: Re: Itanium: EFI... no fs0: device.& Message-ID: <4134F2E9.5FC2DA79@hp.com>  @ 	You need to mount the disk on an Alpha system.  Then go to the B directory [alpha_tools] and use the alpha_setboot.com (I may have E the name slight off).  Dismount the disk and take it back to you IPF :F system.  Note that if you installed off a CD you should not need this  step.n     Forrest Kenney OpenVMS group.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 22:00:07 GMTi" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG+ Subject: Re: Itanium: EFI... no fs0: devicee0 Message-ID: <00A3730C.D4A64680@SendSpamHere.ORG>  U In article <4134F2E9.5FC2DA79@hp.com>, Forrest Kenney <Forrest.Kenney@hp.com> writes:y >iA >	You need to mount the disk on an Alpha system.  Then go to the nC >directory [alpha_tools] and use the alpha_setboot.com (I may have oF >the name slight off).  Dismount the disk and take it back to you IPF G >system.  Note that if you installed off a CD you should not need this n >step.  3 I don't have an alpha that will accept this disk.     D How do you install off a CD?  I need to boot VMS and there's no fs0:/ device containing the boot strapping procedure.a   -- V< http://www.ProvN.com  for the *best* OpenVMS system security=                       solutions that others only claim to be.a -- h, Cyber-Terrorism (si'-ber tayr'-or-iz-em) n.:M   The release of, the sale of, or the use of any Micro$oft software product!   -- aK VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMm   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 22:22:15 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)s+ Subject: Re: Itanium: EFI... no fs0: device 2 Message-ID: <rS6Zc.9226$vd3.7576@news.cpqcorp.net>  S In article <00A3730C.D4A64680@SendSpamHere.ORG>, VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:hV :In article <4134F2E9.5FC2DA79@hp.com>, Forrest Kenney <Forrest.Kenney@hp.com> writes: :>B :>	You need to mount the disk on an Alpha system.  Then go to the D :>directory [alpha_tools] and use the alpha_setboot.com (I may have G :>the name slight off).  Dismount the disk and take it back to you IPF aH :>system.  Note that if you installed off a CD you should not need this  :>step.o : 4 :I don't have an alpha that will accept this disk.   :sE :How do you install off a CD?  I need to boot VMS and there's no fs0:t0 :device containing the boot strapping procedure.  C   The fs0 device is the first FAT partition found, and it typically C   contains the EFI loader for OpenVMS.  (OpenVMS I64 can have threewC   to five disk partitions and one to two FAT partitions on a systemfC   disk, and the order of the partitions is not necessarily static.)   D   If you are not seeing an fs0 or an fs0 and fs1 device,  then there9   are no bootstrap structures written to the target disk.o  ?   The tool that writes bootstrap structures is sys$setboot.exe.PB   (There is an IA64_SETBOOT.COM wrapper around in the cross-tools @   kit, and that can be used -- it sets up logicals that fool theA   image activator into thinking the images have been moved to the-@   system directories.  I tend to simply move the images into the@   appropriate system directories, and use the tool directly from1   there, though this technique is not supported.)2  I   I tend to use the boot options menu and not the fs devices, but that isaG   largely preference -- I tend to add boot aliases for the devices I amuE   interested in, and do not tend to use nor to reference the fsX FAT a   partition devices directly.a  D   What materials do you have on-hand?  The OpenVMS I64 distribution D   disk on DVD media?  E8.2, specifically?  An rx2600 or similar box,C   and the associated disk brick(s)?  In other words, what materialsM1   and what hardware do we have to work with here?a  F   If you have the DVD media, I will assume you have booted it and have+   installed OpenVMS I64 E8.2 onto the disk.r  E   If you are working from a network download kit, I have instructionsKE   for burning the distro to optical media, and some related pointers.hC   If you don't have a burner and an optical drive available, you'llt7   have to find, configure, and use common SCSI storage.   D   If you are creating a CD or DVD installation kit, then you need toE   use sys$setboot against the master partition -- before you burn it.-  6   Again, what materials and hardware are present here?    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faqlN  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.comv   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 00:32:37 GMTc" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG+ Subject: Re: Itanium: EFI... no fs0: devicee0 Message-ID: <00A37322.1DB19C94@SendSpamHere.ORG>  X In article <rS6Zc.9226$vd3.7576@news.cpqcorp.net>, hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:T >In article <00A3730C.D4A64680@SendSpamHere.ORG>, VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:W >:In article <4134F2E9.5FC2DA79@hp.com>, Forrest Kenney <Forrest.Kenney@hp.com> writes:i >:> C >:>	You need to mount the disk on an Alpha system.  Then go to the oE >:>directory [alpha_tools] and use the alpha_setboot.com (I may have rH >:>the name slight off).  Dismount the disk and take it back to you IPF I >:>system.  Note that if you installed off a CD you should not need this g >:>step. >:5 >:I don't have an alpha that will accept this disk.  a >:F >:How do you install off a CD?  I need to boot VMS and there's no fs0:1 >:device containing the boot strapping procedure.  >iD >  The fs0 device is the first FAT partition found, and it typicallyD >  contains the EFI loader for OpenVMS.  (OpenVMS I64 can have threeD >  to five disk partitions and one to two FAT partitions on a systemD >  disk, and the order of the partitions is not necessarily static.)  F I still don't understand the FAT partition stuff.  Why assume that theF VMS space has any understanding of the Willyworld.  The VMSers sure as
 hell doesn't.r    E >  What materials do you have on-hand?  The OpenVMS I64 distribution .E >  disk on DVD media?  E8.2, specifically?  An rx2600 or similar box,-D >  and the associated disk brick(s)?  In other words, what materials2 >  and what hardware do we have to work with here?  A I have a DVD for V8.1.  A dual processor rx2600.  2x 36.4GB SCSI.     G >  If you have the DVD media, I will assume you have booted it and have , >  installed OpenVMS I64 E8.2 onto the disk.  F I hadn't because I can't find the boot loader on the non-existent fs0: device.e      F >  If you are working from a network download kit, I have instructionsF >  for burning the distro to optical media, and some related pointers.D >  If you don't have a burner and an optical drive available, you'll8 >  have to find, configure, and use common SCSI storage. >cE >  If you are creating a CD or DVD installation kit, then you need tonF >  use sys$setboot against the master partition -- before you burn it.  0 I have DVD burning capabilities on my powerbook.     -- S< http://www.ProvN.com  for the *best* OpenVMS system security=                       solutions that others only claim to be.  -- d, Cyber-Terrorism (si'-ber tayr'-or-iz-em) n.:M   The release of, the sale of, or the use of any Micro$oft software product! r -- tK VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 01:16:49 GMT 4 From: Forrest Kenney <forrest_dot_kenney@hp_dot.com>+ Subject: Re: Itanium: EFI... no fs0: device.) Message-ID: <413524C2.4F9D683@hp_dot.com>a  K    The 8.1 installation CD should have a FAT partition on it.  Make sure iteJ is in the driver and the try the following commands from the shell prompt.   shell> reconnect -ro
 shell> map -r   K     That should find the FAT partition on the CD.  If it does not somethingrI is wrond with the drive or the CD.  You can try tossing it in the MAC andi! see it is sees the FAT partition.a  H     What was supposed to happen is you put the CD in the CD or DVD driveN in the system.  Before the system gets to the shell prompt.  But if you waitedH until you were at the shell prompt they the above commands are needed to@ get the system to rescan the devices looking for FAT partitions.   Forrest Kenney   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 21:26:38 -0400c- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>@+ Subject: Re: Itanium: EFI... no fs0: devicei, Message-ID: <4135252A.42C0D1E3@teksavvy.com>  ! VAXman-, @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:tH > I still don't understand the FAT partition stuff.  Why assume that theH > VMS space has any understanding of the Willyworld.  The VMSers sure as > hell doesn't.0  I The FAT stuff is simple, based on Hoff's explanations here some time ago.v  L Think of IA64 as a DOS machine. Its rudimentary console program looks at theJ boot block which point to "some disk drive", and then locates and executesK COMMAND.COM based on a FAT table at the start of that disk drive. This then6G gives it a more complete console program that allows the more elaboratee booting to proceed._  N In VMS terms, the "some disk drive" happens to be contained in one RMS file asI a container file. To VMS, the contents of the file are jibberish. But thehN equivalemt of COMMAND.COM hidden somewhere inside that container file providesN IA64 with the equivalent of SRM which allows IA64 to be knowedgeable enough toK look into the OSD-2/5 drive to find the SYSLOA*.EXE files and begin the VMSr booting process.  N So, when you populate the system drive, the boot block must then be updated toM point to the location of that container file so that IA64's primitive ROM can-( look at it and find some FAT disk drive.  I And from what Hoff has explained, you can have different flavours of that-L container file, containing different versions of "command.com" (each versionN stored as a separate RMS file). So if you need diagnostics, you point the bootI block to a different RMS file and this WAY IA64 happens to load a totallyi diffeent console program.-  8 I am not sure how the IA64 VMS distribution is arranged.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 01:50:40 GMTr" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG+ Subject: Re: Itanium: EFI... no fs0: device 0 Message-ID: <00A3732D.07757CB3@SendSpamHere.ORG>  \ In article <4135252A.42C0D1E3@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:" >VAXman-, @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:I >> I still don't understand the FAT partition stuff.  Why assume that the I >> VMS space has any understanding of the Willyworld.  The VMSers sure ass >> hell doesn't. >rJ >The FAT stuff is simple, based on Hoff's explanations here some time ago. >rM >Think of IA64 as a DOS machine. Its rudimentary console program looks at thecK >boot block which point to "some disk drive", and then locates and executesyL >COMMAND.COM based on a FAT table at the start of that disk drive. This thenH >gives it a more complete console program that allows the more elaborate >booting to proceed.  M Huh?  DOS being the precursor to Weendoze?  My first experience with anything-N from Micro$haft was a PeeCee running NT.  Fortunately, I was spared the brain-M fucking of Micro$haft's DOS.  To me, COMMAND.COM sounds like it is a command .M procedure and a FAT table is the opposite of a THIN table.  All that FAT doesc for me is clog my arteries?n  M Puhleez stop describing this PeeCee shite in PeeCee terms assuming I have anyw knowledge of them.     --  < http://www.ProvN.com  for the *best* OpenVMS system security=                       solutions that others only claim to be.t -- ", Cyber-Terrorism (si'-ber tayr'-or-iz-em) n.:M   The release of, the sale of, or the use of any Micro$oft software product! + -- +K VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMl   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 22:00:01 -0400O- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>T+ Subject: Re: Itanium: EFI... no fs0: deviceA, Message-ID: <41352CFC.53EF292D@teksavvy.com>   Forrest Kenney wrote:S7 >     That should find the FAT partition on the CD. ...KB > get the system to rescan the devices looking for FAT partitions.  E As a suggestion, I would recommend you avoid the use of the term "FATeJ partition". This makes any serious VMS system manager uncomfortable at the@ thought of having a bootable DOS drive next to your VMS system.   N You may want to use something such as "FAT data structure".  It is then easierA to explain that such structure is contained inside some RMS file.A   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 22:17:03 -0400w- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>p+ Subject: Re: Itanium: EFI... no fs0: device , Message-ID: <413530F8.4C0B0C6F@teksavvy.com>  ! VAXman-, @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:yN > fucking of Micro$haft's DOS.  To me, COMMAND.COM sounds like it is a commandO > procedure and a FAT table is the opposite of a THIN table.  All that FAT doesZ > for me is clog my arteries?P  K DOS has a primitive simple file system called FAT. (this is what limits DOSP file names to 8.3).m  3 FAT is equivalent in terminology to ODS-2 or ODS-5.H. The FAT table is the equivalent to INDEXF.SYS.  J IA64 looks at the boot block to find the location of a FAT table, and thenM scans that FAT table for a specific file name which it then loads into memoryX
 and executes.7  G Same principle in VAX or Alpha: the CPU firmware knows enough to find ay7 specific file on the boot disk, load it and execute it.H  L Consider much older VAXes that had separate console media. IA64 is about theN same, except it loads its console media from the smae disk drive that containsK your VMS software, and that console media is contained in a binary VMS fileAK and its contents are arranged in a specific and simplified file system thatQ/ happens to be the same format as what DOS uses.F   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 02:15:58 GMT14 From: Forrest Kenney <forrest_dot_kenney@hp_dot.com>+ Subject: Re: Itanium: EFI... no fs0: device * Message-ID: <4135329E.D33CB4D0@hp_dot.com>  B     Like it of not the core system firmware only knows how to deal@ with FAT and GUID partitioned disks.  We have to provide it whatG it wants to find the bootstrap files.  This has nothing to do with likepB or dislike of Windows or PC's.  It was driven by the core firmwareA on the system.  No partition no way to get the system to boot up.P  ?     Now back to the original problem does the V8.1 DVD that youTD have have a FAT partition on it.  If not then you have a problem youF will not be able to install VMS.  V8.1 is really old you might want to  consider getting a V8.2 FT disk.   Forrest Kenney   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 23:02:02 -0400W- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>i+ Subject: Re: Itanium: EFI... no fs0: deviceu, Message-ID: <41353B80.6207197C@teksavvy.com>   Forrest Kenney wrote:7D >     Like it of not the core system firmware only knows how to dealB > with FAT and GUID partitioned disks.  We have to provide it what( > it wants to find the bootstrap files.     L The way Hoff explained it, the firmware just looks at the boot block to findN the location of a FAt table and then scans that table to find the startup file to load and execute.   Is this correct ?8  M If so, there is no need to use the word "partitioned disks". It just needs toQJ be able to find a bunch of disk blocks that contain a FAT table structure.   ------------------------------  * Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 03:30:35 +0000 (UTC)7 From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)P+ Subject: Re: Itanium: EFI... no fs0: device/( Message-ID: <ch3for$jsj$1@pcls4.std.com>  6 Forrest Kenney <forrest_dot_kenney@hp_dot.com> writes:  C >    Like it of not the core system firmware only knows how to deal4A >with FAT and GUID partitioned disks.  We have to provide it what7H >it wants to find the bootstrap files.  This has nothing to do with likeC >or dislike of Windows or PC's.  It was driven by the core firmware+B >on the system.  No partition no way to get the system to boot up.  H What goes around comes around, I guess.  Some of the earliest Unixes forD VAX had enough of an ODS-2 file system to have a [SYSEXE]SYSBOOT.EXED to load and run Unix.  It lived in a container file on the Unix file system.d -- n -Mikev   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 19:27:09 GMTq# From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)R( Subject: Re: LK layout USB keyboard?????2 Message-ID: <hi4Zc.9193$nZ2.4913@news.cpqcorp.net>  u In article <4133cfd8$0$22761$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>, "Alex Daniels" <AlexNOSPAMTHANKSDaniels@themail.co.uk> writes:RH :Finally Didier on here gave me the part number, and then I got a quote  :within a couple of days.R  G   FWIW, the OpenVMS source listings part number has been listed in the G=   OpenVMS FAQ and in the OpenVMS SPD for quite some time now.D  H   The HP Integrity system packages and supported options for OpenVMS I64H   -- and the LK463 keyboard, for that matter -- are just coming on-line.  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faqMN  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.comM   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 15:46:44 -0400z, From: Forrest Kenney <Forrest.Kenney@hp.com>( Subject: Re: LK layout USB keyboard?????& Message-ID: <4134D5A4.A4535B45@hp.com>  >     Here is the scoop the HP parts store is listing that they ? are not available.  That is not correct they are not orderable n= from the internet parts store.  What it ideally should do is W> send you to reseller who has them.  That explains the problem ; that VAXman ran into.  I believe Dave will try real hard toG> get the online parts store issue fixed.  The other person who < said they could not get them via their sales person can you < send mail to rogersd@hp.com with more details so he can get  that resolved.     Forrest Kenney   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 02:37:23 GMTE, From: "Dave Gudewicz" <k9jdk@NOSPAMarrl.net>) Subject: Re: OpenVMS running on HP 3000'sC, Message-ID: <DBaZc.11755$_g7.5385@attbi_s52>  J I like Dave's idea but would change one thing.  How about Patrick Stewart 6 ( Jean-Luc) instread of James Earl Jones (Darth Vader)     <<snip>>  9 > Fade to black, then up to "OpenVMS at 25" logo, plus CGA > 1-8xx-xxx-xxxxG > Voice over: "OpenVMS - after 25 years, even after 9-11, nothing stopss > it"b >uA > Fade logo to black, then up to OpenVMS logo, CG still displayed4I > Voice over: "Call now to find out how the OpenVMS treasured heritage ofcJ > security and reliability can free your IS department from server virusesG > and the unscheduled downtime they cause and how OpenVMS can make your 7 > distaster tolerant clusters TRULY disaster tolerant."s >w > Fade to black. >T > Toll free number TBD.r >; > Total running time: 00:00:30.e >nF > I imagine that being read by James Earl Jones (minus the breath-mask > sounds, of course) ;-) >h	 > D.J.D. $   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 22:59:57 -0400h) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca>n' Subject: Re: SWS-2.0 (Apache) & CGI ???v: Message-ID: <WUaZc.10291$7i2.635192@news20.bellglobal.com>  H "Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:6VdetO4CM+Kg@eisner.encompasserve.org...v [...snip...]I >    The last time I used HP Basic, it was ROM based.  And VAX-11/VMS 1.5  wase >    shipping. >1K Hey. I seem to remember dorking around with HP BASIC on something called ans) HP-85. Is this what you are referring to?e  
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,e Ontario, Canada.8 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 18:52:43 GMTn/ From: brooks@cuebid.zko.dec.nospam (Rob Brooks)M+ Subject: Re: Volume Shadow Copy Stays at 0%n- Message-ID: <FJxCMu9qRfBM@cuebid.zko.dec.com>d  # (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) writes: 3 > brooks@cuebid.zko.dec.nospam (Rob Brooks) writes:a: >>peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) writes:) >>> btw. What does SHOW SHADOW tell you ?  >>H >>He's on a VAX; OpenVMS VAX V7.3 was released before SHOW SHADOW, which. >>was first supported on OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-2.  I > Does this eventually mean that OpenVMS VAX V8.2 will have SHOW SHADOW ?n  L No, it does not mean that; I don't know if SET/SHOW SHADOW will be available for OpenVMS VAX.   -- k  M Rob Brooks    VMS Engineering -- I/O Exec Group     brooks!cuebid.zko.dec.come   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 19:25:54 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)+ Subject: Re: Volume Shadow Copy Stays at 0%w$ Message-ID: <ch2jc2$h81$1@online.de>  - In article <FJxCMu9qRfBM@cuebid.zko.dec.com>, 2 brooks@cuebid.zko.dec.nospam (Rob Brooks) writes:   % > (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) writes:g5 > > brooks@cuebid.zko.dec.nospam (Rob Brooks) writes:R< > >>peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) writes:+ > >>> btw. What does SHOW SHADOW tell you ?M > >>J > >>He's on a VAX; OpenVMS VAX V7.3 was released before SHOW SHADOW, which0 > >>was first supported on OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-2. > K > > Does this eventually mean that OpenVMS VAX V8.2 will have SHOW SHADOW ?2 > N > No, it does not mean that; I don't know if SET/SHOW SHADOW will be available > for OpenVMS VAX.  G I think there is some misunderstanding here.  While 8.2 is slated to be F a simultaneous release on ALPHA, ITANIUM and VAX, no-one has ever said; that this would bring VAX up, feature-wise, to the level of E ALPHA/Itanium.  (ALPHA and Itanium have a common code base, so it is >B more reasonable to expect feature parity there.)  There are a few B features which are ALPHA only, and it will probably stay that way.   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Aug 2004 11:38:16 -0700. From: martinkirby12@yahoo.co.uk (Martin Kirby)2 Subject: Re: [OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-2] System freezed< Message-ID: <224291b.0408311038.6fb5d777@posting.google.com>  o peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) wrote in message news:<newscache$ogeb3i$ywi1$1@news.sil.at>...aH > Yesterday I had a nice suprise finding my PWS workstation frozen afterL > the weekend. AMDS (which I fortunately configured long ago) showed nothingK > on limit (97% CPU, 82% Mem, 124 BIO/s which is quite usual) but DTSESSION / > was MWAIT (RWMBX) and I wasn't able to login.o > F > So I tried logging via SSH and later via LAT but these processes got( > stuck too (COMO but with Prio 15/4 !). ...d  < DTSESSION in RWMBX rings a bell as something I have seen butA unfortunately I am away from my office for the next two weeks and5 can't check my records.7  E Was DECW$SERVER possibly looping? Do you have the GRAPHICS UPDATE ECOd applied?   Regards,   Martin Kirby   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 17:08:00 -0400-# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>0N Subject: [OT]: From the Dept. of Stolen Identies and Other Security Nightmares, Message-ID: <fZGdnXolDagxdancRVn-pw@igs.net>  - http://www.securitypipeline.com/news/462001293   August 30, 20042  7 e-Passports Using Contactless Chips Show Security Flaws"             By Junko Yoshida, EETimest  < PARIS - The Department of Homeland Security's first tests ofH electronic-passport interoperability exposed technology flaws, includingI myopic and dyslexic smart-card readers. Some readers could not detect theaL presence of e-passport chips, many could detect the chips but could not readK them and others were befuddled about what information they were supposed ton display.    J On the other hand, in the absence of a private data encryption requirementI under the proposed U.S. scheme, readers in one test were able to *spy* on,J and copy sensitive personal data from a distance of 30 feet. That has someI security experts and privacy rights advocates calling for a rethinking of2 the planned system.     E The results of last month's three-day testing event, held at National4H Biometric Security Project facilities in Morgantown, W.Va., sent vendorsB scrambling to tweak their products in time for the second round ofI interoperability testing, which began last week in Sydney, Australia. But:A most technology providers said the technical difficulties were an.L inevitability for first-generation products based on varying interpretationsC of the International Civil Aviation Organization's e-passport spec.p    A The tests did show that e-passports based on the ISO 14443 Type B C contactless interface had more problems than those using the Type AaE interface. The ICAO spec provides for the use of either interface butp) mandates that readers support both types.p    F Joerg Borchert, vice president and head of secure mobile solutions forL Infineon Technologies North America, compared the tests to the PC industry'sL plugfests. USB, Ethernet and Firewire, he noted, were "never that precise inI the beginning, but interoperability testing helped work out the details."g    J But it was intrusion, not precision, that was on the minds of the securityJ experts and privacy advocates who expressed alarm last week at the resultsH of a National Institute of Standards and Technology trial at Morgantown.K Using a reader equipped with an antenna, NIST testers were able to lift "an.C *exact* *copy* of digitally signed private data" from a contactlessrJ e-passport chip 30 feet away, said Neville Pattinson, director of businessL development technology and government affairs for smart-card provider Axalto	 Americas.2    G The basic ICAO spec - the basis for the U.S.approach - does not requirenH personal-data encryption. "Unless the government reconsiders its currentC position and decides to add a security mechanism beyond the digitaluJ signature to its e-passport," said Pattinson, the system will be insecure.    L ICAO, for its part,"needs to raise its bar and step up" its requirements, he said.I    K An ICAO spokesman said the organization specifies a contactless "proximity" H chip that can be read only within a distance of a few inches. He said heK didn't know which chips had been used in the tests but called it "extremelyaF unlikely" that proximity chips could read information from more than 4 inches away.    J A Homeland Security spokeswoman confirmed the tests had "demonstrated thatD if the readers are not designed with appropriate shielding, the dataF transmitted from the chip to the reader could be detected several feetL away." But she said it would be "unrealistic, under most circumstances, thatI people would have this equipment nearby and be able to use it in a covertc manner."    E While ICAO's proposals do not mandate personal-data encryption or theNK inclusion of biometric ID data, the spec calls for digital signatures basedaJ on the public-key infrastructure. Further, the organization recommends theK inclusion of biometric data, although it leaves implementation decisions ton its 188 member nations.-    E Some European countries plan to require active authentication schemestD on-chip. But the request for proposals issued by the U.S. GovernmentJ Printing Office for electronic passports, which had a deadline of Aug. 12,' sought no additional security measures.n    L Some vendors are moving on their own to enhance privacy protection. InfineonJ has modified the microcontroller portion of its e-passport chip to make itK less vulnerable to reverse-engineering. Supply-current transients have alsooI been modified, to foil efforts to deduce the instructions being executed.     J "Our job is to build technology according to the government's request. ItsK implementation needs to be determined by policymakers," Infineon's BorcherttG said. Infineon's strategy appears to be to provide all of the necessarylL hardware and software for a secure system and let individual agencies choose whether to use them.    L "At some point," however, "the vendors need to rein in the deepest wishes ofB government officials who are neither experts in privacy nor have aH sufficient understanding of technology and law," cautioned Gus Hosein, aG fellow at the London School of Economics and a senior fellow at PrivacyaI International, an advocacy group. Close scrutiny, he said, will "identifyp8 the industry officials who are overpromising solutions."    D "Confidential data has to be protected by the application layer withF encryption, exactly as we do for a contact smart card," said Jean-PaulK Caruano, contactless center manager for ID at the Security Business Unit ofII smart-card provider Gemplus. "Basic access control using secure messaging F provides a way to do this, and this technique is described in the ICAO specifications."    F Michael Ganzera, marketing manager for e-government and smart identityE products at Philips Semiconductors, said practical solutions to guardhL privacy are already available to the average citizen. If the ICAO's expandedF privacy recommendations aren't implemented by the body that issued theD passport, he said, "you can insert a piece of metal foil or put your7 passport in a metallized envelope to prevent [access]."     F Americans may find that do-it-yourself solution compelling, since someJ privacy advocates fear the unprotected U.S. e-passport could broadcast itsG holder's national identity. "Criminals could use passport eavesdroppingiL systems to figure out whom to rob," said Bruce Schneier, security technologyI expert and author of the books Secrets and Lies and Beyond Fear. It couldhC also be used by terrorists "to figure out where the Americans are."i    J Questions about e-passport security extend beyond the passport and reader.K "Today there are over 10,000 different birth documents accepted in the U.S.vE as sufficient proof of identity to obtain a passport. It is virtuallyvH impossible to authenticate documents from that many sources," said BarryF Kefauver, former U.S. deputy assistant secretary of state for passport> services and current technical working group chairman of ICAO.    E Kefauver also speculated that at some point, the contactless chip andsK passport could be eliminated altogether. Instead, a person's biometric dataoG would be measured at the point of contact and compared with informationhI stored in a central database. That would shift the security concerns froma the chip to the network.    D Schneier agreed that the system "will require the creation of a hugeG back-end database . . . that will be vulnerable to attacks and abuses."     E The e-passport backbone system would further require channels to movenD information to other countries for border-control verification. ThatK foreshadows a globally distributed database of personal information, Hoseinv warned.e    F In January, when the United States began scanning foreign visitors andI storing the data for a planned period of more than 50 years, many nationsn@ responded with alarm. Yet now some countries are following suit.    H "We will soon see nations with appalling human rights records generatingK massive databases and then requiring our own fingerprints and face scans as  we travel," predicted Hosein.s     begin 666 blank.gifl= K1TE&.#EA`0`!`( ``/___P```"'Y! $`````+ `````!``$```("1 $`.P``. `n endi   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 17:32:41 -0400i- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> Y Subject: Re: [OT]: From the Dept. of Stolen Identies and Other Security Nightmares Nightm , Message-ID: <4134EE64.74BF92FA@teksavvy.com>   John Smith wrote:.L > On the other hand, in the absence of a private data encryption requirementK > under the proposed U.S. scheme, readers in one test were able to *spy* on > > and copy sensitive personal data from a distance of 30 feet.  J Duh ! As if it wasn't obvious to any one with half a brain when they firstE announced the idea of using RFID in passports. I though that they hadPN annoucned they had been able to convince the current USA rgime to abandon the idea of RFID in passports ?e  K Sorry, but the current system must be maintanined: only the passport holderaM can release the information contained in the passport by handing the passporteG to a trusted individual. No scheme that can allow a passport to be read-Q without the holder knowing it and authorizing it to be read should be acceptable.<  M If the current regime is thrown out this november, I would hope that passport B technology redesign would become more realistic and less orwelian.  H Also, considering such passports must be readable by agencies around theM world, can *ANY* type of encryption or authentication technology work ? SeemsoK to me that any country with high corruption rate will quickly have whatevertA encryption algorithm and keys released to criminal organisations.-   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 14:27:48 -0400e# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> 8 Subject: [OT]: Smart Car    was Re: HPworld - I Survived, Message-ID: <OpadncSwGcq9XqncRVn-gw@igs.net>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:, > In article <2pjmjbFm79tjU1@uni-berlin.de>,@ > "Peter Weaver" <WeaverConsultingServices@sympatico.ca> writes: >> Bill Gunshannon wrote:t >>> ...sE >>> And as long as we're comparing cars now, why are 54mpg cars still B >>> available in Europe and not allowed to be imported here? (EverE >>> look at the offerings from Smart?  Ideal urban vehicles.  SmallerlE >>> size, lower gas consumption, lower pollution.  And their not evenV >>> hybrids. >>D >> Smart is coming to Canada this fall and I believe they will be in8 >> the US in 2006 (just verified that at www.smart.com). > G > Gfreat news.  Now, if they can only avoid the impulse to price it outr+ > of the reach of everybody but the top 3%.e > D >>                                                Interesting littleG >> cars, when I was in Switzerland a few months back you could not walk)E >> down the street without stepping on a few along the way. :) At the1E >> time I mentioned to another person in the group that they would be.F >> great in North America if you are staying in the city limits, but I- >> would not want to try one on the highways.G >VC > I was in Germany this past March and was more than impressed with. > them.r > F >>                                   In early July I could not believeC >> that I saw one on the highway doing about 110 KM/HR, there was a F >> transport truck less than a metre off its bumper, and the transportD >> driver was hunched over his wheel looking at the Smart car with a6 >> look on his face that said "What is that thing?" :) > A > I was driving a rather peppy Golf and was easily overtaken on aoD > secondary road by a Smart Roadster.  I understand they are not hotD > off the line but have excellent acceleration once moving.  I would! > love to have a Roadster myself.i     Check this link...6 http://www.mbcanada.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=1863   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.484 ************************