1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 01 Sep 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 485       Contents:= Re: 3X-LK463-A2 DEC layout USB keyboard... no longer supplied 1 Re: A hilarious example of a unix cluster vs. VMS ! Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ??? ! Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ??? ! Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ??? ! Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ??? ! Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ??? ! RE: A whopping 50 percent...  ??? ! Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ??? ! Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ??? ! Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ??? ! Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ??? ! Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ??? ! Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ??? ! Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ??? ! Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ??? ! Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ??? ( Re: Big IA64 test coming in a few months( Re: Big IA64 test coming in a few months( Re: Big IA64 test coming in a few months Re: charon vax emulator???< Re: CSWS_JAVA v2.1 - Tomcat v4.1.24 - update/upgrade Tomcat?< Re: CSWS_JAVA v2.1 - Tomcat v4.1.24 - update/upgrade Tomcat?- Re: DCE: Initialization (get bindings) failed ' Re: Error while listing a saveset file. ' Re: Error while listing a saveset file.  Flat panel VT replacement? Re: Flat panel VT replacement? Re: Flat panel VT replacement? Re: Flat panel VT replacement? Re: Flat panel VT replacement? Re: foto Re: foto Re: foto Re: have fun with "inquire"  Re: have fun with "inquire" : Host-Based Minimerge for OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-2 is available> Re: Host-Based Minimerge for OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-2 is available Re: HPworld - I Survived Re: HPworld - I Survived" Re: Itanium: EFI... no fs0: device" Re: Itanium: EFI... no fs0: device" Re: Itanium: EFI... no fs0: device" Re: Itanium: EFI... no fs0: device" Re: Itanium: EFI... no fs0: device" Re: Itanium: EFI... no fs0: device misc questions about OpenVMS  Re: misc questions about OpenVMS  Re: misc questions about OpenVMS  Re: misc questions about OpenVMS  Re: misc questions about OpenVMS	 need help & Re: Somewhat OT: Is AMD the new Intel?& RE: Somewhat OT: Is AMD the new Intel?& Re: Somewhat OT: Is AMD the new Intel?# Standard Software Warranty Question  strange decnet-plus problems...  Re: SWS-2.0 (Apache) & CGI ???" Re: Volume Shadow Copy Stays at 0%) Re: [OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-2] System freezed  [OT] Cars and trains  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 06:14:31 GMT  From: danco@ns2.pebble.orgF Subject: Re: 3X-LK463-A2 DEC layout USB keyboard... no longer supplied1 Message-ID: <slrncjamdc.gqs.danco@ns2.pebble.org>   0 In article <00A372F6.4229F280@SendSpamHere.ORG>,! VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:   @ > Thanks Sue and Forrest.  I received an email from Dave Rogers.B > However, I still do not know how to go about ordering this item.  @ When you find out, please let the rest of us here in comp.os.vms in on the secret as well.  :-)   - Dan    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 18:33:07 +0100 < From: Andrew Harrison <andrew_remove__s._harrison@s_u_n.com>: Subject: Re: A hilarious example of a unix cluster vs. VMS0 Message-ID: <ch514l$bum$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   John Smith wrote:  > Andrew Harrison wrote: >  >>Bob Ceculski wrote:  >>= >>>this wouldn't happen to have been you Andrew, would it? :)  >>>  >> >>Actually no it wouldn't. >>5 >>The two customers I advise both have hot sites with 3 >>fully replicated data for all their key apps. One 8 >>of them replicates all their data as well non critical9 >>as well as critical though there is no cluster resource 2 >>on the DR site to support the non critical apps. >>7 >>Pity you chose such an old example, things have moved 4 >>on just a tiny bit since the mid nineties or han't8 >>you noticed. OpenVMS for example has had 2 new owners,9 >>Compaq is no more, Alpha has been killed and 50% of all ; >>HP's customers have no intention of migrating to Itanium.  >  >  > 	 > Andrew, L > I don't know whether you have ever seen a television show that was popular; > in the US during the early 1960's entitled "Perry Mason".  > J > In it there was the ever-humbled prosecutor named Hamilton Burger, whoseG > favorite line appear to be the one used whenever he wanted to object:  > 8 > "Incompetent, irrelevant, and immaterial, Your Honor." > 0 > That certainly applies to your last statement. >   , Really I thought it was rather to the point.  6 The banking example provided by Bob is now so old that9 OpenVMS has had all the changes of Owners etc in the mean  time.   6 The world has moved forward considerably. UNIX now has9 cluster filesystems, wide area clusters etc and so making : the case as Bob appears to be doing that running from site5 to site with tapes is the only way of delivering a DT 3 service using a UNIX infrastructure is patently BS.   7 Lets hope that no-one wastes precious OpenVMS marketing  resources on Bobs proposition.   Regards  Andrew HArrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 13:08:03 +0100 - From: Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com> * Subject: Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ???* Message-ID: <2plsh9Fmdhp0U1@uni-berlin.de>   John Smith wrote: . > "Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr" wrote: > ; >>In article <08mdndOgk6KvuqjcRVn-uA@igs.net>, "John Smith"  >><a@nonymous.com> writes: >> >>>Mikko Putkonen wrote: >>> @ >>>>Bob Koehler <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote: >>>>E >>>>>  I wish somebody did have the numbers, I'd expect the total VMS H >>>>>  systems outnumbered the total UNIX systems for a few years in the >>>>>  early to mid 80's.  >>>>D >>>>I'm absolutely clueless and inexperienced, as always, but could,D >>>>say, an old list of systems once connected to ... umh ... BitnetG >>>>provide anything of interest?  Does this reflect anything about the  >>>>bigger picture?  >>>> >>>>---  >>>>9 >>>>                       CONNECTED NODES AS OF 11/11/87 3 >>>>                             TOTAL NODES = 2063  >> >>[snippage] >> >> >>>Thanks for the list.  >>> E >>>Any bets as to just how many of these organizations still have any & >>>current VMS systems up and running? >> >>C >>We were on that list (as SSRL750) and we've still got VMS systems 
 >>running and  >>are doing active development.  >>E >>And we learned to stop naming nodes after the hardware they run on; D >>it was embarrassing when SSRL750 became an 8700 and later an 8800. >  >  > ' > That's one institution....any others?   ; I can say that at all 4 of these nodes (FREMBL51, DHHEMBL5, ( DHDEMBL5, DHDEMBL), there's no more VMS.  & And that's why I no longer work there.  	 Roy Omond  Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Sep 2004 12:10:30 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)* Subject: Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ???* Message-ID: <2plshmFm8c6gU1@uni-berlin.de>  , In article <dY2dnXibcoKsJ6jcRVn-pA@igs.net>,& 	"John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:. > "Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr" wrote: >>D >> We were on that list (as SSRL750) and we've still got VMS systems >> running and  >> are doing active development. >>F >> And we learned to stop naming nodes after the hardware they run on;E >> it was embarrassing when SSRL750 became an 8700 and later an 8800.  >  > ' > That's one institution....any others?    7 SCRANTON  Univ of Scranton Comp Ctr                 VMS 9 SCRVMSYS  Univ of Scranton Comp Ctr                 VM/SP   B That's us.  The original VMS machine is gone (obviously) but we doA still have a VMS machine in it's position although it gets little F if any use today.  The VM machine is long gone.  It, too, was replaced? by VMS, but I don't know how much longer that will be the case.     bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 08:01:56 -0400# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> * Subject: Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ???, Message-ID: <dY2dnXibcoKsJ6jcRVn-pA@igs.net>  , "Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr" wrote:; > In article <08mdndOgk6KvuqjcRVn-uA@igs.net>, "John Smith"  > <a@nonymous.com> writes: >> Mikko Putkonen wrote:@ >>> Bob Koehler <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote:E >>>>   I wish somebody did have the numbers, I'd expect the total VMS H >>>>   systems outnumbered the total UNIX systems for a few years in the >>>>   early to mid 80's.  >>> D >>> I'm absolutely clueless and inexperienced, as always, but could,D >>> say, an old list of systems once connected to ... umh ... BitnetG >>> provide anything of interest?  Does this reflect anything about the  >>> bigger picture?  >>>  >>> ---  >>> 9 >>>                        CONNECTED NODES AS OF 11/11/87 3 >>>                              TOTAL NODES = 2063  >  > [snippage] >  >> >> Thanks for the list.  >>E >> Any bets as to just how many of these organizations still have any & >> current VMS systems up and running? >  > C > We were on that list (as SSRL750) and we've still got VMS systems 
 > running and  > are doing active development.  > E > And we learned to stop naming nodes after the hardware they run on; D > it was embarrassing when SSRL750 became an 8700 and later an 8800.    % That's one institution....any others?    ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 08:06:32 -0400# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> * Subject: Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ???, Message-ID: <SKqdnUxKY5fYJqjcRVn-gg@igs.net>   Tom Linden wrote: G > When you look at the list, you have to ask yourself what the hell was G > Digital thinking to embark on the alpha program.  Why would you throw H > up for grabs such an impressive list customers for the folly of a new,F > not advancing state of the art, architecure.  And now they are doing. > it again, of course the list is now smaller.    H There was a lot of 'customer' pressure via 'marketechture' from Sun, HP,4 etc... saying that RISC was 'in' and CISC was 'out'.  L But I'm not certain that at the time that was a wholly unfounded assumption.H I'm pretty sure that it was a combination of process issues and compilerL issues at the time which seemed to point the way towards RISC being the more0 sure way to higher/faster workloads at the time.   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Sep 2004 08:58:12 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) * Subject: Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ???3 Message-ID: <$ezh2gJLtD62@eisner.encompasserve.org>   Y In article <ch30lb$ql4$1@ousrvr3.oulu.fi>, Mikko Putkonen <miputkon@paju.oulu.fi> writes: > > Bob Koehler <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote:K >>   I wish somebody did have the numbers, I'd expect the total VMS systems K >>   outnumbered the total UNIX systems for a few years in the early to mid 
 >>   80's. > C > I'm absolutely clueless and inexperienced, as always, but could,  C > say, an old list of systems once connected to ... umh ... Bitnet  F > provide anything of interest?  Does this reflect anything about the  > bigger picture?    >  > ---  > 7 >                        CONNECTED NODES AS OF 11/11/87 1 >                              TOTAL NODES = 2063   G    search/statistics says there are 31 occurances of VMS and 8 of UNIX.    ------------------------------   Date: 1 Sep 2004 08:59:50 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) * Subject: RE: A whopping 50 percent...  ???3 Message-ID: <DgbZiiob5zea@eisner.encompasserve.org>   _ In article <NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECIOEMGDLAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes: G > When you look at the list, you have to ask yourself what the hell was G > Digital thinking to embark on the alpha program.  Why would you throw H > up for grabs such an impressive list customers for the folly of a new,I > not advancing state of the art, architecure.  And now they are doing it + > again, of course the list is now smaller.   F    The fact that DEC was fast loosing market share to faster computersG    running poorer software actually managed not to escape DEC's notice.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 16:29:50 +0200 0 From: Keith Cayemberg <keith.cayemberg@arcor.de>* Subject: Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ???B Message-ID: <4135dcde$0$19559$9b4e6d93@newsread2.arcor-online.net>   Mikko Putkonen wrote: > > Bob Koehler <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote: > J >>  I wish somebody did have the numbers, I'd expect the total VMS systemsJ >>  outnumbered the total UNIX systems for a few years in the early to mid	 >>  80's.  >  > C > I'm absolutely clueless and inexperienced, as always, but could,  C > say, an old list of systems once connected to ... umh ... Bitnet  F > provide anything of interest?  Does this reflect anything about the  > bigger picture?  >  > ---  > 7 >                        CONNECTED NODES AS OF 11/11/87 1 >                              TOTAL NODES = 2063  >  > : >   Node      Site                                  System: >   --------  ------------------------------------  ------ [SNIP]; > The entire list is on http://www.netlib.org/misc/bitnet .  >  >  > -Mikko Putkonen  >   G I have counted the number of instances of the various operating system  ( families in this list. The top 10 are...     1	VMS		837   2	IBM VM		651 
   3	UNIX		229    4	IBM MVS		113   5	CDC NOS		 66   6	MUSIC		 23   7	MCP		 18   8	PRIMOS		 14    9	Honeywell CP6	 11  10	MULTICS		 10   G Please also notice that nearly all of the entries are from academic or   research institutions.   Cheers!    Keith Cayemberg    ------------------------------   Date: 1 Sep 2004 14:42:10 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)* Subject: Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ???* Message-ID: <2pm5e2Fm7d3sU1@uni-berlin.de>  3 In article <$ezh2gJLtD62@eisner.encompasserve.org>, > 	koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:[ > In article <ch30lb$ql4$1@ousrvr3.oulu.fi>, Mikko Putkonen <miputkon@paju.oulu.fi> writes: ? >> Bob Koehler <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote: L >>>   I wish somebody did have the numbers, I'd expect the total VMS systemsL >>>   outnumbered the total UNIX systems for a few years in the early to mid >>>   80's.  >>  D >> I'm absolutely clueless and inexperienced, as always, but could, D >> say, an old list of systems once connected to ... umh ... Bitnet G >> provide anything of interest?  Does this reflect anything about the   >> bigger picture? >  >>   >> --- >>  8 >>                        CONNECTED NODES AS OF 11/11/872 >>                              TOTAL NODES = 2063 > I >    search/statistics says there are 31 occurances of VMS and 8 of UNIX.   C Not sure what search/statistics is supposed to do, but my count was F 836 VMS and 227 UNIX.  There are also 653 IBM VM systems. Which, whileD a nice piece of trivia provides little useful information.  If I didF the same thing with the USENET maps you would get hundreds of UNIX andG maybe a dozen VMS.  Personally, I was suprised because I had never seen D a UNIX BITNET host and wasn't even aware there was JNet software for Unix.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 1 Sep 2004 14:53:25 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)* Subject: Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ???* Message-ID: <2pm635Fm7d3sU2@uni-berlin.de>  B In article <4135dcde$0$19559$9b4e6d93@newsread2.arcor-online.net>,3 	Keith Cayemberg <keith.cayemberg@arcor.de> writes:  > I > I have counted the number of instances of the various operating system  * > families in this list. The top 10 are... >  >   1	VMS		837 >   2	IBM VM		651  >   3	UNIX		229  >   4	IBM MVS		113 >   5	CDC NOS		 66 >   6	MUSIC		 23 >   7	MCP		 18 >   8	PRIMOS		 14  >   9	Honeywell CP6	 11  > 10	MULTICS		 10  > I > Please also notice that nearly all of the entries are from academic or   > research institutions.  ( I wonder if that could be because.......    G          BITNET - /bit'net/ (Because It's Time NETwork) An academic and G                                                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I                   research computer network connecting approximately 2500 +                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I                   computers. BITNET provides interactive, electronic mail G                   and file transfer services, using a store and forward E                   protocol, based on IBM Network Job Entry protocols.    :-)    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 12:31:44 -0400 - From: Jf Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> * Subject: Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ???, Message-ID: <4135F96D.9CCB6CCF@teksavvy.com>   Bob Koehler wrote:H >    The fact that DEC was fast loosing market share to faster computersI >    running poorer software actually managed not to escape DEC's notice.   M It wasn't because RISC machines were faster that DEC lost. It was because DEC A didn't price its slower machines competitively. And VAX wasn't so [ substantially slower. But in price-performance, the price was too high for the performance.   I This was the same for its compiler prices where Digital didn't adjust its : prices to reflect the new competition's much lower prices.   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Sep 2004 12:07:51 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) * Subject: Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ???3 Message-ID: <TG256h$K08Ue@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <4135F96D.9CCB6CCF@teksavvy.com>, Jf Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > O > It wasn't because RISC machines were faster that DEC lost. It was because DEC 1 > didn't price its slower machines competitively.   F    It takes a certina amount of money to build a computer.  If you putI    a slow chip in it you save a small amount.  RISC designs were running  '    orders of magnitude faster than VAX.   H    As a comparison:  I had VAXstations running around 1 MIP at about theF    same time I got MIPS based DECstations running around 13 MIP.  Most>    of the hardware was the same.  The cost was about the same.  L    You really think DEC could make VAX system at an order of magnitude lower+    cost than the same box with a MIPS chip?    ------------------------------   Date: 1 Sep 2004 12:09:46 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) * Subject: Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ???3 Message-ID: <JiM5nj9kh2Bs@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <4135F96D.9CCB6CCF@teksavvy.com>, Jf Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > K > This was the same for its compiler prices where Digital didn't adjust its < > prices to reflect the new competition's much lower prices.  H    Digital's compilers were always much better than the competitions andD    we saved our customers big bucks using them.  The full price of aB    development suite including compilers and DECset couldn't bye a!    fresh out's salary for a year.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 13:17:45 -0400 - From: Jf Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> * Subject: Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ???, Message-ID: <41360434.9BD21402@teksavvy.com>   > >   1   VMS             837  > >   2   IBM VM          651 J > > Please also notice that nearly all of the entries are from academic or > > research institutions.  L Which is quite telling at how VMS used to have very big presence in academia and no longer has any.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 18:38:17 +0100 < From: Andrew Harrison <andrew_remove__s._harrison@s_u_n.com>* Subject: Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ???0 Message-ID: <ch51eb$bvp$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   David Froble wrote:    > Andrew Harrison wrote: >  >> David Froble wrote: >> >>>> Kenneth Farmer wrote: >>>  >>>  >>J >>> How good or bad the itanic was, is, and becomes isn't the real issue,  >>> at least for me. >>> H >>> Starting with DEC, and the painful path to HP, I've always had this E >>> issue.  With VAX and Alpha under the control of the same company  D >>> providing VMS there has never been an issue with VMS losing the I >>> hardware on which it ran.  Once the hardware was abandoned, the fate  . >>> of VMS depends upon whoever makes the CPU. >>> C >>> Alpha was the best CPU.  I doubt many will question this.  Not  : >>> speaking for him, (and who could since he never quits J >>> talking/posting), but even Andrew might admit that the CPU itself was I >>> great.  We won't get into packaging of the CPU. Regardless, Alpha is  / >>> no more, as far as the future is concerned.  >>>  >>E >> You are right, Alpha was/is a good CPU let down by packaging which 7 >> except for a few honourable exceptions sucked rocks.  >  >  > I > Note that the EV7 developers addressed this issue, by placing stuff on  I > the chip and bypassing the system developers.  I've always wondered if  J > this caused them to turn on Alpha.  Then again, it could have just been I > trying to keep their jobs.  The itanic in it's current form would seem  K > to cause a need for good system developers.  I also think I read a while  H > back that those system developers who turned against Alpha were given > > their appropriate reward for being good company men, the AX. >   C Yes the did, the GS1280 is a very well balances system. The problem @ is that it is the first large Alpha system that can be describedA as well balanced and it appeared as Alpha's demise was announced.   F Before that Digital and Compaq had 2 or 3 attempts at getting it right; starting with the 8400 and ending miserably with the GS320.   @ Ironically HP have delivered a system which is too much too lateA in the sense that the GS1280 is actually a rather better balanced C system than the SuperDome while also being a system that has little 
 or no future.    Regards  Andrew Harrison J > I've not tried to keep up with the latest Alpha systems.  But from some F > of the things you've said, it appears that the on-chip SMP glue and J > on-chip memory controllers may have shown their worth.  Don't know what F > else would keep a 3-year old processor running with the rest of the ? > pack, and beating the itanic.  Well, the last isn't quite as   > astounding.  :-) >  > D >> Itanium seems to be an indifferent CPU unless you count being 4thF >> fastest on Integer behind Opteron, Xeon, Power4 and 2and fastest onA >> FP for single CPU workloads as something other than mid table.  >>C >> Worse this mid table possition slides even further if you have a B >> whiff of SMP involved and Itanium slides back to 5th on Integer >> and 4th on FP.  >>8 >> Put an app on there and the position worsens further. >>G >> Or put another way the Itanium package like the Alpha package before C >> it sucks because this is exactly what happened with Alpha boxes.  >>8 >> Frontside is not a bus that is designed to assist you8 >> building large SMP systems (SGI will vouch for that). >>A >> Couple that with a large system infrastructure where your best > >> server has a bisectional bandwidth which is 1/2 that of the> >> slowest competitors, a tiny application portfolio, confusedC >> marketing messages, a pissed off customer base for your existing 1 >> systems and you have Alphacide all over again.  >>
 >> Regards >> Andrew Harrison >> >> >>H >>> If the itanic never becomes profitable for Intel, what have they to G >>> lose by dropping it?  Not much.  The big losers will be you and me  G >>> and the rest of those who continue to believe that VMS is the best  " >>> commercial OS available today. >>> H >>> That's my issues with the itanic.  In my opinion the EPIC based CPU G >>> will never touch IBM's OOO Power architecture.  Thus, except for a  I >>> few things that it may do well, it will not succeed at the top end.   A >>> Opteron will kill it below the top end, and maybe even there.  >>> E >>> It may be adequate for most VMS users.  I hope it is.  I hope it  J >>> stays around. But if it doesn't, the actions of some idiots and Intel 0 >>> will have hurt VMS very much, maybe fatally. >>>  >>> Dave >>>  >> >  >  >    ------------------------------  * Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 17:46:18 +0000 (UTC) From: m.kraemer@gsi.de* Subject: Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ???5 Message-ID: <ch51ta$etn$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>   q In article <TG256h$K08Ue@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: ^ > In article <4135F96D.9CCB6CCF@teksavvy.com>, Jf Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > > Q > > It wasn't because RISC machines were faster that DEC lost. It was because DEC 3 > > didn't price its slower machines competitively.  > H >    It takes a certina amount of money to build a computer.  If you putK >    a slow chip in it you save a small amount.  RISC designs were running  ) >    orders of magnitude faster than VAX.  > J >    As a comparison:  I had VAXstations running around 1 MIP at about theH >    same time I got MIPS based DECstations running around 13 MIP.  Most@ >    of the hardware was the same.  The cost was about the same. > N >    You really think DEC could make VAX system at an order of magnitude lower- >    cost than the same box with a MIPS chip?  >    H If the hardware was mostly the same, why should the price be different ?I BTW, the "order of magnitude" is a bit exaggerated if you compare systems I of the same time frame. At the time MIPSen became popular the competition C was VAX 3176 and later 4000. Although the MIPSen were significantly A faster and cheaper, it wasn't an order of magnitude between them. T It was, however, enough for me (and others) to leave VMS (apart from other reasons).   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 07:45:16 +0200  From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>1 Subject: Re: Big IA64 test coming in a few months 2 Message-ID: <ch3nlh$lkm$1@news2.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>   JF Mezei wrote: P > Media is abuzz about AMD unveiling its dual core opteron. Intel is expected to( > unveil dual core 8086 and IA64 "soon". > P > With AMD *apparently* a bit ahead of Intel, there will be a lot of pression on= > intel to release its dual core 8086 as soon as it is ready.  > K > It will be extremely interesting to see how Intel's 8086 competes against > > Intel's IA64 in terms of the timing of their actual release. > N > If the release of IA64 comes much after the 8686 for intel, it will add fuel9 > to the argument that IA64 will always lag the industry.  > M > For IA64's sake, Intel should do everything it can to release its dual core K > IA64 before the 8086. But for Intel's sake, it needs to work very hard to . > match or precede AMD's release for the 8086.  P It seems Instel is to late already. According to The Register, AMD demonstrated  a dual core Opteron yesterday.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 12:11:08 -0400 - From: Jf Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 1 Subject: Re: Big IA64 test coming in a few months , Message-ID: <4135F49A.FD0EC5B8@teksavvy.com>   Dirk Munk wrote:Q > It seems Instel is to late already. According to The Register, AMD demonstrated   > a dual core Opteron yesterday.  G Demosntrated on an HP server to boot ! But making a demo of a beta chip H doesn't equate being able to ship in quantities. That demo was the moralE equivalent of the VMS engineers making first boot on that IA64 thing.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 19:32:09 +0200  From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>1 Subject: Re: Big IA64 test coming in a few months 2 Message-ID: <ch5135$40a$1@news2.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>   Jf Mezei wrote:  > Dirk Munk wrote: > Q >>It seems Instel is to late already. According to The Register, AMD demonstrated   >>a dual core Opteron yesterday. >  > I > Demosntrated on an HP server to boot ! But making a demo of a beta chip J > doesn't equate being able to ship in quantities. That demo was the moralG > equivalent of the VMS engineers making first boot on that IA64 thing.   O You're right, but it does mean development of the dual core Opteron is well on  Q its way, and it seems AMD is ahead of Intel. I can't wait for a dual AMD64 in my  > PC. Just imagine has fast I will be able to type my e-mails !!   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 13:09:34 -0400< From: "Peter Weaver" <WeaverConsultingServices@sympatico.ca># Subject: Re: charon vax emulator??? * Message-ID: <2pme2hFmdne0U1@uni-berlin.de>   Bob Koehler wrote: >...F >    The comments I'm hearing are more along the line of "those things- >    are pretty zippy, they keep passing me".   G Gave one of the DBA's a demo in the Prius yesterday, he said "Wow! This  is neat!!!" :)  @ >    Sadly Charon-VAX AXP doesn't meet my needs.  And I'm reallyD >    suprized that it's not recommended for real-time work, which is> >    one of my needs.  Or is SRI wrong in that recommendation?  D I have never looked into it myself, but if that is what SRI told you4 then I would believe them, they know their software.   --   Peter Weaver Weaver Consulting Services Inc.  Canadian VAR for CHARON-VAX  www.weaverconsulting.ca    ------------------------------   Date: 1 Sep 2004 09:03:08 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) E Subject: Re: CSWS_JAVA v2.1 - Tomcat v4.1.24 - update/upgrade Tomcat? 3 Message-ID: <J34A8r7YRIZc@eisner.encompasserve.org>   f In article <xW2Zc.62781$_h.60294@bignews3.bellsouth.net>, Chuck Chopp <ChuckChopp@rtfmcsi.com> writes:F > The CSWS_JAVA v2.1 product installation kit installs Tomcat v4.1.24. > M > I have a webapp that installs & runs properly on Tomcat v4.1.30 [on WinXP]  O > and on Tomcat v4.1.28 [NetWare v6.5], but which fails with a JSP compilation  ; > error when deployed to my Tomcat installation on OpenVMS.       And the error is?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 12:37:49 -0400 * From: Chuck Chopp <ChuckChopp@rtfmcsi.com>E Subject: Re: CSWS_JAVA v2.1 - Tomcat v4.1.24 - update/upgrade Tomcat? : Message-ID: <IUmZc.50749$N11.16261@bignews5.bellsouth.net>   Bob Koehler wrote:  h > In article <xW2Zc.62781$_h.60294@bignews3.bellsouth.net>, Chuck Chopp <ChuckChopp@rtfmcsi.com> writes: > F >>The CSWS_JAVA v2.1 product installation kit installs Tomcat v4.1.24. >>M >>I have a webapp that installs & runs properly on Tomcat v4.1.30 [on WinXP]  O >>and on Tomcat v4.1.28 [NetWare v6.5], but which fails with a JSP compilation  ; >>error when deployed to my Tomcat installation on OpenVMS.  >  >  >    And the error is? >   H Here are more of the details.  I've been following up on the news group H "gmane.corp.jakarta.tomcat.user" on the news server news.gmane.org, too.  J I've got a very simple webapp that I'm putting together and it only makes M use of the "html" tag library.  I have successfully deployed & executed this  L webapp [based on Struts v1.1] to WinXP w/Tomcat v4.1.30 & JDK v1.4.2 and to + NetWare v6.5 w/Tomcat v4.1.28 & JDK v1.4.2.   M When I deploy to an Alpha system running OpenVMS v7.3-1 w/the CSWS_JAVA v2.1  K product [Tomcat v4.1.24 w/JDK v1.4.2] installed, I get the following error  3 in my browser when attempting to access the webapp:    HTTP Status 500 -    type Exception report    message   J description The server encountered an internal error () that prevented it  from fulfilling this request.   	 exception   H org.apache.jasper.JasperException: Exception forwarding for name login: B org.apache.jasper.JasperException: Unable to compile class for JSP      at K org.apache.jasper.servlet.JspServletWrapper.service(JspServletWrapper.java) L      at org.apache.jasper.servlet.JspServlet.serviceJspFile(JspServlet.java)E      at org.apache.jasper.servlet.JspServlet.service(JspServlet.java) @      at javax.servlet.http.HttpServlet.service(HttpServlet.java)      at ] org.apache.catalina.core.ApplicationFilterChain.internalDoFilter(ApplicationFilterChain.java)       at U org.apache.catalina.core.ApplicationFilterChain.doFilter(ApplicationFilterChain.java)       at O org.apache.catalina.core.StandardWrapperValve.invoke(StandardWrapperValve.java)       at h org.apache.catalina.core.StandardPipeline$StandardPipelineValveContext.invokeNext(StandardPipeline.java)O      at org.apache.catalina.core.StandardPipeline.invoke(StandardPipeline.java)iI      at org.apache.catalina.core.ContainerBase.invoke(ContainerBase.java)       at O org.apache.catalina.core.StandardContextValve.invoke(StandardContextValve.java)e      at h org.apache.catalina.core.StandardPipeline$StandardPipelineValveContext.invokeNext(StandardPipeline.java)O      at org.apache.catalina.core.StandardPipeline.invoke(StandardPipeline.java)eI      at org.apache.catalina.core.ContainerBase.invoke(ContainerBase.java) M      at org.apache.catalina.core.StandardContext.invoke(StandardContext.java)g      at I org.apache.catalina.core.StandardHostValve.invoke(StandardHostValve.java)       at h org.apache.catalina.core.StandardPipeline$StandardPipelineValveContext.invokeNext(StandardPipeline.java)      at Q org.apache.catalina.valves.ErrorDispatcherValve.invoke(ErrorDispatcherValve.java)T      at h org.apache.catalina.core.StandardPipeline$StandardPipelineValveContext.invokeNext(StandardPipeline.java)      at I org.apache.catalina.valves.ErrorReportValve.invoke(ErrorReportValve.java)e      at h org.apache.catalina.core.StandardPipeline$StandardPipelineValveContext.invokeNext(StandardPipeline.java)O      at org.apache.catalina.core.StandardPipeline.invoke(StandardPipeline.java)nI      at org.apache.catalina.core.ContainerBase.invoke(ContainerBase.java)e      at M org.apache.catalina.core.StandardEngineValve.invoke(StandardEngineValve.java)d      at h org.apache.catalina.core.StandardPipeline$StandardPipelineValveContext.invokeNext(StandardPipeline.java)O      at org.apache.catalina.core.StandardPipeline.invoke(StandardPipeline.java)0I      at org.apache.catalina.core.ContainerBase.invoke(ContainerBase.java) K      at org.apache.coyote.tomcat4.CoyoteAdapter.service(CoyoteAdapter.java)qN      at org.apache.coyote.http11.Http11Processor.process(Http11Processor.java)      at f org.apache.coyote.http11.Http11Protocol$Http11ConnectionHandler.processConnection(Http11Protocol.java)N      at org.apache.tomcat.util.net.TcpWorkerThread.runIt(PoolTcpEndpoint.java)      at N org.apache.tomcat.util.threads.ThreadPool$ControlRunnable.run(ThreadPool.java)-      at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:534)-  
 root cause  E javax.servlet.ServletException: Exception forwarding for name login: 4B org.apache.jasper.JasperException: Unable to compile class for JSP      at S org.apache.jasper.runtime.PageContextImpl.handlePageException(PageContextImpl.java) <      at org.apache.jsp.index_jsp._jspService(index_jsp.java)G      at org.apache.jasper.runtime.HttpJspBase.service(HttpJspBase.java)f@      at javax.servlet.http.HttpServlet.service(HttpServlet.java)      at K org.apache.jasper.servlet.JspServletWrapper.service(JspServletWrapper.java) L      at org.apache.jasper.servlet.JspServlet.serviceJspFile(JspServlet.java)E      at org.apache.jasper.servlet.JspServlet.service(JspServlet.java)e@      at javax.servlet.http.HttpServlet.service(HttpServlet.java)      at ] org.apache.catalina.core.ApplicationFilterChain.internalDoFilter(ApplicationFilterChain.java)H      at U org.apache.catalina.core.ApplicationFilterChain.doFilter(ApplicationFilterChain.java)w      at O org.apache.catalina.core.StandardWrapperValve.invoke(StandardWrapperValve.java)a      at h org.apache.catalina.core.StandardPipeline$StandardPipelineValveContext.invokeNext(StandardPipeline.java)O      at org.apache.catalina.core.StandardPipeline.invoke(StandardPipeline.java)tI      at org.apache.catalina.core.ContainerBase.invoke(ContainerBase.java)o      at O org.apache.catalina.core.StandardContextValve.invoke(StandardContextValve.java)       at h org.apache.catalina.core.StandardPipeline$StandardPipelineValveContext.invokeNext(StandardPipeline.java)O      at org.apache.catalina.core.StandardPipeline.invoke(StandardPipeline.java) I      at org.apache.catalina.core.ContainerBase.invoke(ContainerBase.java)rM      at org.apache.catalina.core.StandardContext.invoke(StandardContext.java)r      at I org.apache.catalina.core.StandardHostValve.invoke(StandardHostValve.java)r      at h org.apache.catalina.core.StandardPipeline$StandardPipelineValveContext.invokeNext(StandardPipeline.java)      at Q org.apache.catalina.valves.ErrorDispatcherValve.invoke(ErrorDispatcherValve.java)h      at h org.apache.catalina.core.StandardPipeline$StandardPipelineValveContext.invokeNext(StandardPipeline.java)      at I org.apache.catalina.valves.ErrorReportValve.invoke(ErrorReportValve.java)       at h org.apache.catalina.core.StandardPipeline$StandardPipelineValveContext.invokeNext(StandardPipeline.java)O      at org.apache.catalina.core.StandardPipeline.invoke(StandardPipeline.java)uI      at org.apache.catalina.core.ContainerBase.invoke(ContainerBase.java)k      at M org.apache.catalina.core.StandardEngineValve.invoke(StandardEngineValve.java)-      at h org.apache.catalina.core.StandardPipeline$StandardPipelineValveContext.invokeNext(StandardPipeline.java)O      at org.apache.catalina.core.StandardPipeline.invoke(StandardPipeline.java)nI      at org.apache.catalina.core.ContainerBase.invoke(ContainerBase.java)tK      at org.apache.coyote.tomcat4.CoyoteAdapter.service(CoyoteAdapter.java)eN      at org.apache.coyote.http11.Http11Processor.process(Http11Processor.java)      at f org.apache.coyote.http11.Http11Protocol$Http11ConnectionHandler.processConnection(Http11Protocol.java)N      at org.apache.tomcat.util.net.TcpWorkerThread.runIt(PoolTcpEndpoint.java)      at N org.apache.tomcat.util.threads.ThreadPool$ControlRunnable.run(ThreadPool.java)-      at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:534)     K I can see that JSP compilation complete for my welcome page as there is an  J index_jsp.java and index_jsp.class file in the work area subfolder for my L webapp.  However, the login_jsp.java class appears not to be compiling into K login_jsp.class in the "WEB-INF/form" subfolder in that work area and this A& matches up with the error I'm getting.  F Is there any known deficiency in Tomcat v4.1.24 that was corrected in  v4.1.28 & newer?     Additional information:   0 I found some additional information in the file L "localhost_log.2004-09-01.txt".  It looks like the Java class that is being H generated for "login.jsp" is not getting declared properly, or else the F source file "login_jsp.java" is not being found even though it exists.  L Here's the snippets of what I found in the log file.  Please note that only 7 the tail end of this is what gets shown in the browser.   L What I'm curious about is what the package names should be for java classes G that are generated as part of converting a JSP into a java class.  The j9 source file does exist but for some reason the exception F8 "java.lang.ClassNotFoundException" occurs for the class  "org.apache.jsp.login_jsp".a    I 2004-09-01 11:17:36 ApplicationDispatcher[/Demo01] Servlet.service() for W servlet jsp threw exception5B org.apache.jasper.JasperException: Unable to compile class for JSPP      at org.apache.jasper.JspCompilationContext.load(JspCompilationContext.java)      at N org.apache.jasper.servlet.JspServletWrapper.getServlet(JspServletWrapper.java)      at K org.apache.jasper.servlet.JspServletWrapper.service(JspServletWrapper.java) L      at org.apache.jasper.servlet.JspServlet.serviceJspFile(JspServlet.java)E      at org.apache.jasper.servlet.JspServlet.service(JspServlet.java)t@      at javax.servlet.http.HttpServlet.service(HttpServlet.java)   [...snip...]   ----- Root Cause -----: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: org.apache.jsp.login_jspK      at org.apache.jasper.servlet.JasperLoader.loadClass(JasperLoader.java) K      at org.apache.jasper.servlet.JasperLoader.loadClass(JasperLoader.java)|P      at org.apache.jasper.JspCompilationContext.load(JspCompilationContext.java)      at N org.apache.jasper.servlet.JspServletWrapper.getServlet(JspServletWrapper.java)      at K org.apache.jasper.servlet.JspServletWrapper.service(JspServletWrapper.java):L      at org.apache.jasper.servlet.JspServlet.serviceJspFile(JspServlet.java)E      at org.apache.jasper.servlet.JspServlet.service(JspServlet.java)d@      at javax.servlet.http.HttpServlet.service(HttpServlet.java)   [...snip...]  M 2004-09-01 11:17:36 StandardWrapperValve[jsp]: Servlet.service() for servlet > jsp threw exceptiondH org.apache.jasper.JasperException: Exception forwarding for name login: B org.apache.jasper.JasperException: Unable to compile class for JSP      at K org.apache.jasper.servlet.JspServletWrapper.service(JspServletWrapper.java) L      at org.apache.jasper.servlet.JspServlet.serviceJspFile(JspServlet.java)E      at org.apache.jasper.servlet.JspServlet.service(JspServlet.java)r@      at javax.servlet.http.HttpServlet.service(HttpServlet.java)   [...snip...]   ----- Root Cause -----E javax.servlet.ServletException: Exception forwarding for name login: aB org.apache.jasper.JasperException: Unable to compile class for JSP      at S org.apache.jasper.runtime.PageContextImpl.handlePageException(PageContextImpl.java)i<      at org.apache.jsp.index_jsp._jspService(index_jsp.java)G      at org.apache.jasper.runtime.HttpJspBase.service(HttpJspBase.java) @      at javax.servlet.http.HttpServlet.service(HttpServlet.java)         -- m Chuck Chopp   8 ChuckChopp (at) rtfmcsi (dot) com http://www.rtfmcsi.com  @ RTFM Consulting Services Inc.     864 801 2795 voice & voicemail2 103 Autumn Hill Road              864 801 2774 fax Greer, SC  29651  , Do not send me unsolicited commercial email.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 14:23:14 GMTv1 From: "Abdul Mateen Khalid" <abdul.khalid@hp.com>n6 Subject: Re: DCE: Initialization (get bindings) failed2 Message-ID: <mXkZc.9264$MJ3.3780@news.cpqcorp.net>  , >>Any ideas how to use DCE with FAILSAFE IP?  = DCE RPC on OpenVMS currently does not work with  FAILsafe IP.cK The workaround available is to define the logical RPC_UNSUPPORTED_NETIFS toa
 the interface'J device which is no longer functional when FAILSafe IP is enabled. You will need to re-define the L logical to switch between interface devices everytime FAILsafe IP is active. A solution for thise& will be available in the next release.   Abdul Mateen Khalidt    ? "Harri Klemetti" <harri.klemetti@fipow.abb.fi> wrote in messageo7 news:472dc69e.0408311408.387bc5d6@posting.google.com...e> > "Abdul Mateen Khalid" <abdul.khalid@hp.com> wrote in message- news:<IEGYc.9030$Xp1.849@news.cpqcorp.net>...p > > Hi > >t@ > > The error code "0e12815a" maps to "invalid network address". > >tG > > Following are the probable reasons DCE/RPC can return the  "invalidi network  > > address"  errorl > >s, > > 1) Problem with the network host address0 > > 2) Problem with the network interface device* > > 3) Failure of function gethostbyname() > >IF > > Have there been any recent changes to TCP/IP configuration on your system?cH > > If possible, can you let me know the exact trigger for this problem.; > > What does the output of TCPIP>show interface look like?t > > Is FAILSafe IP configured? > >aG > > I would also suggest raising a problem report through your customer  supportC; > > representative for further investigation of this issue.  > >L > >S
 > > Thanks > > Abdul Mateen Khalid  > >  > >1 > >rC > > "Harri Klemetti" <harri.klemetti@fipow.abb.fi> wrote in messagee; > > news:472dc69e.0408300454.63e07fa9@posting.google.com...oC > > > harri.klemetti@fipow.abb.fi (Harri Klemetti) wrote in message?> > >  news:<472dc69e.0408262323.4cd0ebfa@posting.google.com>... > > > > Hi,K > > > >LF > > > > I'm trying to get DCE (in RPC_only mode) running in a new DS25 machinel' > > > > with OpenVMS 7.3-2 and DCE 3.1.  > > > >hJ > > > > DCE$DCED process will not start; in the .OUT file there comes this > > > > error:. > > > > "Initialization (get bindings) failed" > > > >  > > > > What can I do? > > > >t > > > > BR,t > > > >n > > > >     Harri Klemetti% > > > >     ABB Oy, Helsinki, FINLANDr > > >  > > >c	 > > > Hi,w > > > / > > > The complete error message is as follows:i > > >e1 > > > DKB0:<SYS0.DCELOCAL.VAR.DCED>DCE$DCED.OUT;7i > > >  > > > $ SET NOVERIFYI > > > 2004-08-26-23:21:07.695+03:00I----- dced FATAL dhd general MAIN.C;1k 1506 > >  0x7bd08	 > > > d28c> > > > Initialization (get bindings) failed, status=0x0e12815a.> > > >   SYSTEM       job terminated at 26-AUG-2004 23:21:07.70 > > >o > > >   Accounting information:eJ > > >   Buffered I/O count:                221      Peak working set size:	 > >  8816tF > > >   Direct I/O count:                   37      Peak virtual size: > >  182656 D > > >   Page faults:                       614      Mounted volumes: > >  0I > > >   Charged CPU time:        0 00:00:00.05      Elapsed time:       0  > >  00:00:00.22 > > >n > > >oC > > > I also run perf_server as suggested, and here is the outcome:  > > > ; > > > $ $perf_server :== $sys$system:dce$rpcperf_server.exe1 > > > $ $perf_server 10 allif & > > > *** Can't inq_bindings - e12815a > > >  > > >  > > > Any help?  > > > 9 > > > -Harri    (Still desperately stuck on this problem)- >  >- > Hi,I > H > I did have FAILSAFE IP setup. Once I disabled FAILSAFE IP the DCE$DCEDC > deamon started successfully. So, the bad guy here is FAILSAFE IP.a >u, > Any ideas how to use DCE with FAILSAFE IP? >t > -Harri   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Sep 2004 07:03:33 -07003. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)0 Subject: Re: Error while listing a saveset file.= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0409010603.7cc654bc@posting.google.com>   U "jay" <qwerty@asdf.lkj> wrote in message news:<10j8s9bkjnvfi14@corp.supernews.com>...-G > I tried with the procedure that you mentioned but I get the followingo > warning message. > G > syelwatk@oakvms> @reset_backup_saveset_file_attributes.com pvp04501.c@ > : > %RMS-W-RTB, 1106 byte record too large for user's buffer >  > syelwatk@oakvms>  @ My best guess is that you copy and pasted in such a way that theD entire contents of RESET_BACKUP_SAVESET_ATTRIBUTES.COM somehow ended4 up on one line (in one record). Please edit the fileE RESET_BACKUP_SAVESET_ATTRIBUTES.COM and see if my guess is right. (Myt? version of this file has 1066 characters so with a little extrar- padding you could get that up to 1106 bytes.)    [...] (procedure omitted)e   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Sep 2004 07:14:17 -0700s. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)0 Subject: Re: Error while listing a saveset file.= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0409010614.745053c8@posting.google.com>   U "jay" <qwerty@asdf.lkj> wrote in message news:<10j8s9bkjnvfi14@corp.supernews.com>... G > I tried with the procedure that you mentioned but I get the followingn > warning message. > G > syelwatk@oakvms> @reset_backup_saveset_file_attributes.com pvp04501.c  > : > %RMS-W-RTB, 1106 byte record too large for user's buffer >  > syelwatk@oakvms>  E Uh, perhaps you FTP'd this file (RESET_BACKUP_SAVESET_ATTRIBUTES.COM)tB in BINARY mode instead of ASCII mode and all the characters of the> file ended up in a single "record". Or perhaps some other file transfer goof up has occurred.  3 [...] (RESET_BACKUP_SAVESET_ATTRIBUTES.COM omitted)    ------------------------------   Date: 1 Sep 2004 05:19:09 -0700 $ From: gspamtackett@yahoo.com (Galen)# Subject: Flat panel VT replacement?.= Message-ID: <bdc65a53.0409010419.36540c4b@posting.google.com>   F Does anyone know of a flat panel device that could be used in place of a  VT2xx or later terminal?r  E I seem to recall having seen one on the Web a year or so ago that hadtD an LK4xx style keyboard and gobs of scrollback memory but can't find! it. (Maybe I just dreamed it? :-)r  F I'd prefer not to use a laptop. A thin client with a built-in terminal> emulator might work but the keyboard layout could be an issue.  	 Thanks...    Galens   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 14:52:41 GMT % From: Rob Brown <mylastname@gmcl.com> ' Subject: Re: Flat panel VT replacement?	L Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0409010851240.26432-100000@localhost.localdomain>   On 1 Sep 2004, Galen wrote:r  H > Does anyone know of a flat panel device that could be used in place of > a  VT2xx or later terminal?.    Is the VT520(?) still available?  D The one I am thinking of had a DEC Keyboard and a box, to which you ) attached the SVGA monitor of your choice.^       --    B Rob Brown                        b r o w n a t g m c l d o t c o mA G. Michaels Consulting Ltd.      (866)438-2101 (voice) toll free!o6 Edmonton                         (780)438-9343 (voice)4                                  (780)437-3367 (FAX)1                                  http://gmcl.com/e   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 17:09:39 +0200n3 From: Michael Unger <spam.to.unger@spamgourmet.com>e' Subject: Re: Flat panel VT replacement? * Message-ID: <2pm796FmrcmtU1@uni-berlin.de>  ' On 2004-09-01 16:52, "Rob Brown" wrote:a   > On 1 Sep 2004, Galen wrote:i > I >> Does anyone know of a flat panel device that could be used in place of  >> a  VT2xx or later terminal? > " > Is the VT520(?) still available? > F > The one I am thinking of had a DEC Keyboard and a box, to which you + > attached the SVGA monitor of your choice.s  5 See <http://www.boundless.com/Text_Terminals/VT/> ...i   Michaelo   -- a; Real names enhance the probability of getting real answers.a5 My e-mail account at DECUS Munich is no longer valid.a   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Sep 2004 10:20:47 -0500n; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)r' Subject: Re: Flat panel VT replacement? 3 Message-ID: <vt7HMRjhg6aK@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  d In article <bdc65a53.0409010419.36540c4b@posting.google.com>, gspamtackett@yahoo.com (Galen) writes:H > Does anyone know of a flat panel device that could be used in place of > a  VT2xx or later terminal?r >   F    I was looking for work benches the other day for computer labs, andG    ran into a site that sells flat screen panel VT emulators for use in     rack mounted systems.  B    If you can't find on on the web, I was searching via Google forI    "work benches", "work stations", and "lan work stations".  It was one e    of the first few vendors.  B    I actually used a flat screen VT200 emulators for some racks weI    assembled about 10 years ago.  Excelent emulation, but I don't recall m    the vendor.  #    Aviod anything that uses a dock.d   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 17:20:59 +0200e0 From: Keith Cayemberg <keith.cayemberg@arcor.de>' Subject: Re: Flat panel VT replacement?aB Message-ID: <4135e8db$0$19553$9b4e6d93@newsread2.arcor-online.net>   Galen wrote:  H > Does anyone know of a flat panel device that could be used in place of > a  VT2xx or later terminal?0 > G > I seem to recall having seen one on the Web a year or so ago that hadrF > an LK4xx style keyboard and gobs of scrollback memory but can't find# > it. (Maybe I just dreamed it? :-)t > H > I'd prefer not to use a laptop. A thin client with a built-in terminal@ > emulator might work but the keyboard layout could be an issue. >  > Thanks...s >  > Galenc    	 Hi Galen,h   Try the following link...r    MIDCOM - Planar ELT320 Terminals- http://www.midcomdata.com/terminal/planar.htmd   Cheers!e   Keith Cayemberg    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 15:22:28 +0200i* From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net> Subject: Re: fotor* Message-ID: <2pm0okFmmhsrU1@uni-berlin.de>   Main, Kerry wrote:   > B > I certainly did not send this, so it looks like someone spoofing8 > addresses ..I do not send attacments to any newsgroup. >   H I can also report that I've received spams/viruses from email addresses F posted in this group, but each time I've looked in the headers I have  found them to be forged.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 16:43:46 +0200n3 From: Michael Unger <spam.to.unger@spamgourmet.com>- Subject: Re: foto * Message-ID: <2pm684Fm8hl3U2@uni-berlin.de>  ( On 2004-09-01 15:22, "Paul Sture" wrote:   > Main, Kerry wrote: > C >> I certainly did not send this, so it looks like someone spoofingu9 >> addresses ..I do not send attacments to any newsgroup.t > J > I can also report that I've received spams/viruses from email addresses H > posted in this group, but each time I've looked in the headers I have  > found them to be forged.  E It seems to be common practice now that worms gather e-mail addresses E from the infected system (browser cache, address books and many other  file types like HTML, MBX etc).e   Michaels   -- h; Real names enhance the probability of getting real answers.d5 My e-mail account at DECUS Munich is no longer valid.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 11:41:07 -0600l0 From: Mark Berryman <mark.berryman@mvb.saic.com> Subject: Re: foto ' Message-ID: <4135a743$1@cpns1.saic.com>v   JF Mezei wrote:i > "Craig A. Berry" wrote:  > H >>Of course you didn't, but it is not "someone," it is a virus that does# >>the sending to propagate itself. n >  > . > The NNTP headers for the offending post are: > * >  From: 	"Kerry.Main" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> >  Newsgroups: 	comp.os.vms  >  Subject:  foto 2 >  Message-ID:  <pleudxbnbajxjvubyif@Mvb.Saic.Com>) >  Date: 	Tue, 31 Aug 2004 15:19:40 -0600a1 >  Organization: 	Info-VAX<==>comp.os.vms Gatewayn' >  X-Gateway-Source-Info: 	Mailing List  >  Lines: 	114J >  Content-Type: 	multipart/mixed; boundary="--------bsjorwsjybwetuizdlad" >  Mime-Version: 	1.0e >  Path:   imp.nntpserver.com!newsfeed-west.nntpserver.com!newsfeed-east.nntpserver.com!nntpserver.com!newsfeed.media.kyoto-u.ac.jp!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!newsfeed.cwix.com!mvb.saic.com!info-vax: >  Xref:   newsfeed-west.nntpserver.com comp.os.vms:247108 >  > L > So this message came via the infovax gateway.  Perhaps those who get theirN > comp.os.vms messages via info vax might be able to get more complete headers. > that provide a clue of the message's origin.  2 I can go one better.  The message originated from:/ 24.107.134.203 (24.107.134.203.charter-stl.com)e  0 which appears to be an address in St. Louis, MO.  I I'll try to add a new anti-spam rule that blocks any message coming into h< me with a message-id that claims to have originated with me.  
 Mark Berrymand   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Sep 2004 02:20:30 -0700h+ From: Pierre.Bru@spotimage.fr (Bru, Pierre)o$ Subject: Re: have fun with "inquire"= Message-ID: <a39f53b1.0409010120.6e7e8dcf@posting.google.com>i  ] hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) wrote in message news:<zD4Zc.9198$nZ2.4205@news.cpqcorp.net>... m > In article <a39f53b1.0408310532.255f5143@posting.google.com>, Pierre.Bru@spotimage.fr (Bru, Pierre) writes:s > C > :the folowing procedure (say pwd.com) does what you think it doese >  ..dF > :Choose a password from this list, or press RETURN to get a new list= > :%RMS-W-RTB, 223600 byte record too large for user's buffera > 0 >   Please provide a full standalone reproducer.  4 the quoted 3 lines procedure *is* the full procedureF the pasted error message *is* the full text displayed on the screen by the falty procedure   @ I get the same error with a 15 char only prompt if I put 2 spaceF instead of only one after the "$". in fact, I get the error as soon as" I have that many char in the line:   <-- cut here --> $ set pas/gen=8d invalid ! $!------------------------------!t! $       inquire pwd "01234567890"  <-- cut here -->   also produce the error!r   > :I run OpenVMS V7.3-1i( > :do you have the same funny behavior ? > @ >   Please do not use INQUIRE until you understand the true fullC >   power of that DCL verb, and then only once you are certain youruC >   tool will always operate in a DCL environment where the INQUIRE  >   is permitted.   F this is for an helper procedure for the system account. I think (hope)B that inquire will always be permited in the context in which I use9 this helper (regular DCL prompt with the system account).    @ >                 INQUIRE is a strange and powerful DCL command,? >   with capabilities beyond what folks might initially expect.l  0 and what are those unsuspected capabilities ? ;)  D >   In its place, I would encourage the use of the READ/PROMPT="..." >   command. > C >   I would NOT encourage abbreviating commands in a DCL procedure.>  ? AFAIK, only the 4 1st letters are meaningful in a DCL command. p  D of course, symbols can perturb this beautiful scheme but if you takeF this into account, you must delete/symbol in every procedure as do all good digi-comp-HP procedure :)  -A >   There have been a few problems with SET PASSWORD in a commandT >   procedure over the years,   A do you know another way to call the password generator from DCL ?1  4 >   please ensure your OpenVMS ECO level is current.   DEC AXPVMS VMS731_CLIUTL V1.0i DEC AXPVMS VMS731_DCL V3.0 DEC AXPVMS VMS731_UPDATE V1.0a  B >   The DECnet procedures SYS$STARTUP:NET*CONFIG*.COM contain some+ >   DCL code that you may be interested in.s > - >   Again, a full standalone example, please?e   you already have it!   >   Here's a sneaky way: > H > $ pipe set password/generate=8 < sys$login:login.com > x.dat 2> x2.dat > D >   Donno if it would be considered supported, however.  I'd tend toG >   use the technique shown in SYS$STARTUP:NET*CONFIG*.COM, regardless.    Pierre.n   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 12:18:13 -0400t- From: Jf Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> $ Subject: Re: have fun with "inquire", Message-ID: <4135F643.C499980A@teksavvy.com>  " This is what I get on VAX VMS 7.2:  4 Note: with the 15 character prompt, this works fine.   $ create temp.comp $ set pas/gen=8e invalid ! $ inquire pwd "01234567890123456"  *EXIT* $ @tempt   yoreucti      yo-reuc-ti cofeaymnaf    co-feaym-naf ciastnailu    ci-ast-nai-lue asydajehad    a-sy-da-je-had urfheown      urf-he-own  C Choose a password from this list, or press RETURN to get a new listn  9 %RMS-W-RTB, 13315 byte record too large for user's bufferd   That word is not on this list:   yoreucti      yo-reuc-ti cofeaymnaf    co-feaym-naf ciastnailu    ci-ast-nai-lu- asydajehad    a-sy-da-je-had urfheown      urf-he-own  C Choose a password from this list, or press RETURN to get a new listn   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 14:08:10 GMTM/ From: brooks@cuebid.zko.dec.nospam (Rob Brooks)gC Subject: Host-Based Minimerge for OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-2 is available - Message-ID: <wCqnqNI1QZb+@cuebid.zko.dec.com>   A Host-Based Minimerge for OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-2 is now available bylB the standard patch distribution mechanism (http://www.itrc.hp.com)  # The kit is named VMS732_HBMM-V0100.   F Even if you do not plan to use Host-Based Minimerge, I'd encourage allG Host-Based Volume Shadowing users who are on V7.3-2 to install this kitiH (paying attention to the caveats with respect to compatibility of future! patch kits for other components).t  C The prioritization of copy/merge operations across the cluster on a 2 per-device basis should be of particular interest.  7 This kit includes a fix for controller-based minimerge.   H This functionality will be native in OpenVMS V8.2 for Alpha and I64 (and* already exists in the field test version).   -- -  M Rob Brooks    VMS Engineering -- I/O Exec Group     brooks!cuebid.zko.dec.comf   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 16:52:08 +0200n3 From: Michael Unger <spam.to.unger@spamgourmet.com> G Subject: Re: Host-Based Minimerge for OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-2 is availableR* Message-ID: <2pm685Fm8hl3U3@uni-berlin.de>  ( On 2004-09-01 16:08, "Rob Brooks" wrote:  C > Host-Based Minimerge for OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-2 is now available byaD > the standard patch distribution mechanism (http://www.itrc.hp.com) > % > The kit is named VMS732_HBMM-V0100.4 >  > [...]-  6 Quoting from the notification mail (from OpenVMS.Org):   | 6.1.1.2  Documentation |m5 | The OpenVMS Volume Shadowing Support for Host-Basedw9 | Minimerge (HBMM) manual is included in the kit in Adobe>9                                                     ^^^^^s- | Acrobat, text, and HTML formats.  The filese   ^^^^^^^            ^^^^u9 | VS-HBMM-VMS732-V0100.PDF, VS-HBMM-VMS732-V0100.TXT, and 7 | HBMM_PRO*.HTML are copied to SYS$HELP when the kit iss | installed.  F Can these manuals be made available on the "OpenVMS Documentation" web8 pages? (Which would avoid a download of about 12 MB ...)   Michaelt   -- t; Real names enhance the probability of getting real answers. 5 My e-mail account at DECUS Munich is no longer valid.i   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 14:20:28 +0200e* From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>! Subject: Re: HPworld - I Survived:* Message-ID: <2plt4hFm7d6uU1@uni-berlin.de>   John Smith wrote:o   > M > Companies that actually manufacture/sell "things" and ship/receive products>N > all seem to love JIT (Just-In-Time) delivery. It reduces inventories, boostsK > cash flow, and generally makes their stock (product on the shelves and inoL > the 'market' ) more attractive because they don't carry a lot of inventory > which may become stale-dated.  >   F Warehousing is expensive. When I worked in a JIT environment (vehicle H manufacturing), forecasts were made in advance, but the final order was H made only sometning like 2 hours in advance. Delivery was direct to the I shop floor. That system didn't just save on warehousing, but allowed the  H   mixing of different models on each production line to keep them going E at maximum speed (luxury models take longer to assemble than economy   models, for instance).  F > Many of these companies figure that the lesser freight costs of railJ > shipments are more than offset by the factors above...especially if your0 > executive compensation is set by stock prices. > B And from the European perspective, delaying the payment of VAT on @ incoming goods can yield a substantial improvement in cash flow.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 14:49:19 +0200 * From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>! Subject: Re: HPworld - I Survivedv* Message-ID: <2pluqfFlu80bU1@uni-berlin.de>   Peter Weaver wrote:e > Bill Gunshannon wrote: >  >>...SC >>And as long as we're comparing cars now, why are 54mpg cars still @ >>available in Europe and not allowed to be imported here? (EverC >>look at the offerings from Smart?  Ideal urban vehicles.  SmallerrC >>size, lower gas consumption, lower pollution.  And their not evene
 >>hybrids. >  > J > Smart is coming to Canada this fall and I believe they will be in the USI > in 2006 (just verified that at www.smart.com). Interesting little cars,aI > when I was in Switzerland a few months back you could not walk down the B > street without stepping on a few along the way. :) At the time IF > mentioned to another person in the group that they would be great inF > North America if you are staying in the city limits, but I would notI > want to try one on the highways. In early July I could not believe thateG > I saw one on the highway doing about 110 KM/HR, there was a transportaF > truck less than a metre off its bumper, and the transport driver wasI > hunched over his wheel looking at the Smart car with a look on his facel$ > that said "What is that thing?" :) >   F A couple of years ago, one would regularly pass me on the way to work  doing 140 km/hr.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 08:00:55 -0400# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> + Subject: Re: Itanium: EFI... no fs0: devicel, Message-ID: <H6mdnRMYqPppJKjcRVn-tw@igs.net>   JF Mezei wrote:p# > VAXman-, @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:pG >> fucking of Micro$haft's DOS.  To me, COMMAND.COM sounds like it is alE >> command procedure and a FAT table is the opposite of a THIN table.o0 >> All that FAT does for me is clog my arteries? >rB > DOS has a primitive simple file system called FAT. (this is what  > limits DOS file names to 8.3). >r5 > FAT is equivalent in terminology to ODS-2 or ODS-5.r0 > The FAT table is the equivalent to INDEXF.SYS. >.G > IA64 looks at the boot block to find the location of a FAT table, andvB > then scans that FAT table for a specific file name which it then! > loads into memory and executes.v > G > Same principle in VAX or Alpha: the CPU firmware knows enough to findr; > a specific file on the boot disk, load it and execute it.. >eD > Consider much older VAXes that had separate console media. IA64 isF > about the same, except it loads its console media from the smae diskB > drive that contains your VMS software, and that console media isC > contained in a binary VMS file and its contents are arranged in a A > specific and simplified file system that happens to be the samea > format as what DOS uses.     So riddle me this:  L Say you have an operating Itanic running VMS 8.2 in production some day, and; then it beomes time to upgrade the os to  the next release.e  E Is there any way that PeeCee-like boot sector viruses and other nastytI creatures can infest one's VMS system, which might then reek havoc on theo% file system or data stored under VMS?.  I ....recalling that, on occasion, people have been known to burn their ownpL CD's of operating systems and use the copies rather than the original media.K I have no idea whether it's possible for a resident virus on one machine to K infect a CD image that's prepapred for copying on another machine. I'm justiK asking a serious question about the mechanisms by which VMS protects itselfiD under situations like this where DOS is involved at the boot level..   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 14:32:37 GMTt4 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>+ Subject: Re: Itanium: EFI... no fs0: device.2 Message-ID: <94lZc.9265$NI3.3836@news.cpqcorp.net>  * Yikes.  What a mess of confusion and fear.  J The console for IPF (and if Intel & Microsoft have their way - pretty muchK for everything) - EFI - is a small O/S.  Instead of 1960's style boot blockiF booting, they chose a more flexible mechanism - to use a *simple* fileI system.  Microsoft donated FAT as the file system for the console.  It is. simple, and ubiquitous.n  I EFI does not execute code in the MBR (block 0) as DOS does.  The block iseH there purely for compatability/legacy use as Microsoft once thought theyK might need it.  The real information on where the console file system lives.F on the disk is in the GUID partition table - which occupies the blocksK following the traditional MBR (with a backup at the end of the disk).  This L table contains information to find partitions, and the console looks for theL one with the GUID for EFI.  If there is no GUID partition table, legacy codeK looks for some crude partition information in the MBR with an EFI signaturerL (this is limited I think to 4 partitions per disk, unlike the GUID partitionI table).  Further, for CD's it looks for a special ISO 9660 extension thato locates the partition.  E The console looks at *all* the attached disks to see if there are EFI J partitions, and for each one it finds, it creates a  FSx device.  This canF be annoying, since the FS device numbering can change if you insert or remove a disk.  K Inside those partitions are simple FAT file structures.  For a CD, there is.K usually a known file in a known place that will allow it to auto-boot.  ForeK hard drives, the file is in an O/S specific place under the \EFI directory.c& For VMS that is EFI\VMS\VMS_LOADER.EFI  C EFI is a small OS, and you can run EFI programs that are on the EFIiJ parttion.  The LOADER files are simply applications that never return, andE instead bootstrap the system.  VMS does this in a multi-step process,nC loading the Itanium Primary Bootstrap (IPB), and then SYSBOOT, etc.t  F To VMS (ODS2/5), all this "partition" stuff looks like some contiguousL container system files.  We manipulate the contents with things like SETBOOTD which can update the MBR and GUID partition tables to point to - forL instance - a new copy of the EFI partition.  When you create a disk you wantC to boot, this has to happen.  Thus the instructions to run SETBOOT.a  K The files in the EFI partition are *only* used to boot VMS.  They are never K accessed during OS operation.  We do not provide general file access to theaF container files.  To access them you would have to have something thatL understands FAT *and* that has privs to open/write a system file (if someoneK has that, they can compromise *any* VMS system regardless of architecture).nD You could also compromise the files from the console with the OS notK running - which means physical access - and again this is no different thancL any VMS system - be it VAX or Alpha.  The only real hacker strategy would beD to try and hack EFI files as a "VMS" virus would require an intimateK knowledge of EFI, IPF, and the VMS bootstrap and system operation - to loadrI some type of trojan code - much easier accomplished by hacking an execlett" rather than the VMS_LOADER or IPB.  D In the final analysis - you can consider all the contents of the EFIK partition pretty much like it was a huge APB.  You need the same skills and K access to compromise either.  There is nothing inherent in the fact that itk4 is a "FAT" file partition that makes it less secure.      . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message& news:H6mdnRMYqPppJKjcRVn-tw@igs.net... > JF Mezei wrote:o% > > VAXman-, @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:eI > >> fucking of Micro$haft's DOS.  To me, COMMAND.COM sounds like it is aaG > >> command procedure and a FAT table is the opposite of a THIN table.t2 > >> All that FAT does for me is clog my arteries? > >tD > > DOS has a primitive simple file system called FAT. (this is what" > > limits DOS file names to 8.3). > >k7 > > FAT is equivalent in terminology to ODS-2 or ODS-5..2 > > The FAT table is the equivalent to INDEXF.SYS. > >pI > > IA64 looks at the boot block to find the location of a FAT table, and D > > then scans that FAT table for a specific file name which it then# > > loads into memory and executes.  > >rI > > Same principle in VAX or Alpha: the CPU firmware knows enough to finda= > > a specific file on the boot disk, load it and execute it.u > >eF > > Consider much older VAXes that had separate console media. IA64 isH > > about the same, except it loads its console media from the smae diskD > > drive that contains your VMS software, and that console media isE > > contained in a binary VMS file and its contents are arranged in aiC > > specific and simplified file system that happens to be the samek > > format as what DOS uses. >  >  > So riddle me this: >tJ > Say you have an operating Itanic running VMS 8.2 in production some day, ande= > then it beomes time to upgrade the os to  the next release.o >tG > Is there any way that PeeCee-like boot sector viruses and other nasty K > creatures can infest one's VMS system, which might then reek havoc on ther' > file system or data stored under VMS?j >"K > ....recalling that, on occasion, people have been known to burn their ownoG > CD's of operating systems and use the copies rather than the originalt media.J > I have no idea whether it's possible for a resident virus on one machine toH > infect a CD image that's prepapred for copying on another machine. I'm justF > asking a serious question about the mechanisms by which VMS protects itselfF > under situations like this where DOS is involved at the boot level.. >_ >"   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Sep 2004 10:16:36 -0500r; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler).+ Subject: Re: Itanium: EFI... no fs0: deviceJ3 Message-ID: <aP6ek$CGM6Og@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  i In article <94lZc.9265$NI3.3836@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com> writes:a > L > The console for IPF (and if Intel & Microsoft have their way - pretty much) > for everything) - EFI - is a small O/S..   [...]s  E > EFI is a small OS, and you can run EFI programs that are on the EFIeL > parttion.  The LOADER files are simply applications that never return, and > instead bootstrap the system..  ?    Or in short, you're running EFI, not Windows (or MS-DOS), son@    learn enough to deal with EFI and don't worry about MS virii.  D    I went through the same thing when I learned enough RT-11 to deal,    with the RT-11 like console on my 11/780.  B    And enough RSX to deal with RSX-11F running on the front end ofF    my DECSYSTEM-20, who's file system resided on the same boot disk as    TOPS-20's file system.)   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 12:25:24 -0400r- From: Jf Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>.+ Subject: Re: Itanium: EFI... no fs0: device , Message-ID: <4135F7F2.261FA5F3@teksavvy.com>   John Smith wrote:dG > Is there any way that PeeCee-like boot sector viruses and other nasty.K > creatures can infest one's VMS system, which might then reek havoc on thef' > file system or data stored under VMS?p    M While VMS is running, that FAT thing is just some RMS file whose contents aree* total jibberish. Some virus would have to:  	1- be compiled/targetted at VMSN 	2- have access to the boot block to find out where the FAT file is stored (*)M 	3- then do a binary open of that file and use its own logic to parse the FATj structures .K 	4- modify the file which IA64 loads and executes to contain malicious codesD that would execute at the consile level (format disks for instance).    % All of this would require privileges.w  F (*) since one could potentially have multiple RMS files with differentL flavours of the boot console media, a virus wouldn't know which one is goingR to be loaded the next time there is a boot unless it has access to the boot block.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 13:15:49 -0400s- From: Jf Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>r+ Subject: Re: Itanium: EFI... no fs0: device , Message-ID: <413603C0.D4BBBF5B@teksavvy.com>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:M > might need it.  The real information on where the console file system livesnH > on the disk is in the GUID partition table - which occupies the blocks  > following the traditional MBR     H If/when Windows becomes available for IA64, and you have a system with 2M physical drives, one loaded with Windows, will Windows see the "VMS" drive asnL 2 distinct drives (one with the EFI FAT file system, and one with a strange, unknown file system on it ?)  N Or is the GUID a truly specialized data structure in some formerly unused diskC location that will be seen only be the IA64 primitive rom program ?I  M Currently, when a VAX or Alpha initialise a drive, the drive is 100% VMS witheS all its own proprietary structures, and VMS has full ownership of all of the drive.   L But with IA64, will an Alpha or VAX be able to use its INITIALIZE command toN create a VMS drive destined for IA64, or will there be some special utility toK first partition a drive with the microsoft formats, and then use the normaleF INIT program to populate the big partition with the ODS-x structures ?  L And if the drive will truly be partitioned into different logical drives, itM is still "kosher" for VMS to have some file whose blocks physically reside inr another partition ?C   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 17:16:22 GMTP& From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com>+ Subject: Re: Itanium: EFI... no fs0: devicee2 Message-ID: <GtnZc.9300$PV3.4474@news.cpqcorp.net>   Jf Mezei wrote:   O > While VMS is running, that FAT thing is just some RMS file whose contents arey, > total jibberish. Some virus would have to:" > 	1- be compiled/targetted at VMSP > 	2- have access to the boot block to find out where the FAT file is stored (*)O > 	3- then do a binary open of that file and use its own logic to parse the FATs
 > structures rM > 	4- modify the file which IA64 loads and executes to contain malicious codeaF > that would execute at the consile level (format disks for instance). >  > ' > All of this would require privileges.4  G If you have this level of access, why bother mucking around inside the KF FAT partition?  Just provide any new execlet that reformats all disks  when loaded.   --   John Reagan / HP Pascal/{A|I}MACRO for OpenVMS Project Leadery Hewlett-Packard CompanyS   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 17:26:35 +0100C+ From: Rodrigo Ventura <yoda@isr.ist.utl.pt>l% Subject: misc questions about OpenVMS ) Message-ID: <m38ybuarb8.fsf@pixie.isrnet>   C I'm sort of a newbie in OpenVMS, and during my contact with OpenVMS D while trying to setup a cluster system with the hobbyist OpenVMS CD,( I've been collecting a set of questions:  D 1. where can I find documentation about the low-level details of theC boot process of OpenVMS? There is an exemplar of "VAX/VMS Internals-A and data structures" (Lawrence J.Kenah,Simon F.Bate, 1984) in the C university library -- I wonder whether it is completely outdated...   F 2. what's the relationship between MOP, MSCP and DECnet? I believe MOPD is really low level, in terms of only supporting booting and consoleD commands. MSCP is a kind of NFS (unix) for VMS. Does MSCP run on top of DECnet? Or not?  A 3. does this last question has anything to do with the difference F between the CLUSTER_CONFIG.COM and the CLUSTER_CONFIG_LAN.COM scripts?6 Does any one of these automatically configures DECnet?  D 4. regarding the boot flags on the alpha platform, in the form "bootD -fl x,y device", the x number is only used when booting from a localE disk, and when booting from LAN (MOP?) the x is ignored (in favour ofv= the [SYSn] directory indicated by MOP; the y number is always < respected. Is this right? In what document is this throughly
 explained?  D 5. inside the [SYSn] directory there is a SYSCOMMON subdirectory; is8 it a copy of SYS$COMMON, or some sort of soft/hard-link?  @ 6. when booting with "-fl 0,1" the SYSBOOT> (or SYSGEN>, I can't< recall) appears, which looks like s stripped-down version ofE SYSGEN. The modifications made there (e.g., USE DEFAULT, SET, etc) do0C seem permanent, in the sense that in the next boot the settings arevD the same; how can I revert to a previous setting. Or in other words,6 after a minimal boot, how can I make it boot normally?  C 7. does AUTOGEN uses the current system values or the saved ones --aE for instance, after a minimal boot (i.e., USE DEFAULT; SET STARTUP_P1l* "MIN"), does AUTOGEN "fubar"'s the system?  
 Thank you,   Cheers,    RodrigoR   -- 6  : *** Rodrigo Martins de Matos Ventura <yoda@isr.ist.utl.pt>. ***  Web page: http://www.isr.ist.utl.pt/~yoda0 ***   Teaching Assistant and PhD Student at ISR:7 ***    Instituto de Sistemas e Robotica, Polo de Lisboae4 ***     Instituto Superior Tecnico, Lisboa, PORTUGALH *** PGP fingerprint = 0119 AD13 9EEE 264A 3F10  31D3 89B3 C6C4 60C6 4585   ------------------------------  * Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 17:13:54 +0000 (UTC)7 From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)-) Subject: Re: misc questions about OpenVMS0( Message-ID: <ch500i$ic3$1@pcls4.std.com>  - Rodrigo Ventura <yoda@isr.ist.utl.pt> writes:s  E >1. where can I find documentation about the low-level details of theoD >boot process of OpenVMS? There is an exemplar of "VAX/VMS InternalsB >and data structures" (Lawrence J.Kenah,Simon F.Bate, 1984) in theD >university library -- I wonder whether it is completely outdated...  E Something that old will probably be discussing the console processorsRJ of old VAXes and not the built-in consoles of later systems, and certainlyE not Alphas.  Many of the details are similar but so much is differentC now.  G >2. what's the relationship between MOP, MSCP and DECnet? I believe MOPdE >is really low level, in terms of only supporting booting and consolepE >commands. MSCP is a kind of NFS (unix) for VMS. Does MSCP run on top  >of DECnet? Or not?-  H MOP is a low-level protocol (at the same level as IP) and really doesn'tF do more than boot and console commands.  DECnet is an all-encompassingD product that includes its own lan protocol, WAN protocols as well asH higher level stuff like file copy, mail, etc.  Think of it as equivalentC to all of tcp/ip including ftp, smtp and all that.  DECnet IV also a2 included MOP even though it really doesn't belong.  > MSCP is a disk server protocol that operates over the cluster A communications protocol (SCS).  It has nothing to do with DECnet.mH MSCP is a disk block serving protocol, unlike NFS.  NFS is probably more- equivalent to the DECnet file access methods.   B >3. does this last question has anything to do with the differenceG >between the CLUSTER_CONFIG.COM and the CLUSTER_CONFIG_LAN.COM scripts?.7 >Does any one of these automatically configures DECnet?n  F CLUSTER_CONFIG*.COM configure a cluster by adding a new node, removingG a node etc. They are almost the same, with the difference having to do 5H with whether DECnet or LANCP is the agent controlling MOP (for satelliteG nodes booting over a LAN).  Use LANCP (CLUSTER_CONFIG_LAN.COM) for new -E configurations.   They do configure DECnet on a new cluster node, butm- when using LANCP DECnet is entirely optional.1  E >5. inside the [SYSn] directory there is a SYSCOMMON subdirectory; isc9 >it a copy of SYS$COMMON, or some sort of soft/hard-link?   I It is pretty much equivalent to a hard link to the [VMSCOMMON] directory.-  A >6. when booting with "-fl 0,1" the SYSBOOT> (or SYSGEN>, I can'ts= >recall) appears, which looks like s stripped-down version ofaF >SYSGEN. The modifications made there (e.g., USE DEFAULT, SET, etc) doD >seem permanent, in the sense that in the next boot the settings areE >the same; how can I revert to a previous setting. Or in other words,>7 >after a minimal boot, how can I make it boot normally?   G If you do a SYSBOOT> SET WRITESYSPARAMS 0   just before exiting SYSBOOT E the changes you made will apply only to that boot, otherwise they are/ saved.  D >7. does AUTOGEN uses the current system values or the saved ones --F >for instance, after a minimal boot (i.e., USE DEFAULT; SET STARTUP_P1+ >"MIN"), does AUTOGEN "fubar"'s the system?-  K AUTOGEN uses parameter settings in MODPARAMS.DAT and calculates others fromaJ feedback or other settings in MODPARAMS.DAT.  You should have definitions H such as cluster node definitions (SCSNODE/SCSSYSTEMID) in MODPARAMS.DAT H but not ones that AUTOGEN is able to calculate.  Autogen is your friend; learn to use it. -- n -Mikeo   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Sep 2004 12:27:17 -0500a; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)t) Subject: Re: misc questions about OpenVMS 3 Message-ID: <LxiPvQzD4vYQ@eisner.encompasserve.org>u  W In article <m38ybuarb8.fsf@pixie.isrnet>, Rodrigo Ventura <yoda@isr.ist.utl.pt> writes:  > E > I'm sort of a newbie in OpenVMS, and during my contact with OpenVMStF > while trying to setup a cluster system with the hobbyist OpenVMS CD,* > I've been collecting a set of questions:  6    Repeat after me:  newbies are a good thing to have.  F > 1. where can I find documentation about the low-level details of theE > boot process of OpenVMS? There is an exemplar of "VAX/VMS Internals C > and data structures" (Lawrence J.Kenah,Simon F.Bate, 1984) in theaE > university library -- I wonder whether it is completely outdated...a  G    That's it.  There are later versions, and there are some interestingcE    differences between VAX, Alpha, and I64 on how the initial load is G    found and loaded.  After that things are similar so reading that old #    document is not a waste of time.c  H > 2. what's the relationship between MOP, MSCP and DECnet? I believe MOPF > is really low level, in terms of only supporting booting and consoleF > commands. MSCP is a kind of NFS (unix) for VMS. Does MSCP run on top > of DECnet? Or not?  F    MOP (maintenance operations protocol) is a LAN-only (not routable) D    protocol for serving load requests and such.  It has a different E    protocol number than SCS or DECnet.  Lots of systems from lots of      vendors can provide MOP.m  D    MSCP is a layers on top of SCS for serving disk file systems in a?    VMScluster.  SCS will run over several media, on Ethernet iteB    uses a different protocol number than MOP or DECnet.  It's alsoC    not routable.  VMScluster, of which MSCP is a part, networks VMSrF    system kernels together to form a single system with most respects.B    Only VMS has MSCP, SCS, VMScluster, TMSCP, DNS, and associated     technologies.  E    DECnet is a general purpose networking protocol.  It will run over0D    LAN or WAN technology.  When run over Ethernet it has a differentB    protocol number from SCS or MOP.  You can get DECnet for almost    any system.  D    None of those three protocols are built on top of each other.  OnE    an Ethernet they all have their own protocol numbers and are builtc-    on top of the Ethenet block specification.r    tC > 3. does this last question has anything to do with the differencegH > between the CLUSTER_CONFIG.COM and the CLUSTER_CONFIG_LAN.COM scripts?8 > Does any one of these automatically configures DECnet?  H    DECnet is not a requirement for a cluster.  CLUSTER_CONFIG proceduresG    only need to refer to DECnet if using older MOP implementations thath0    store thier infomation in DECnet's data base.  F > 4. regarding the boot flags on the alpha platform, in the form "bootF > -fl x,y device", the x number is only used when booting from a localG > disk, and when booting from LAN (MOP?) the x is ignored (in favour ofs? > the [SYSn] directory indicated by MOP; the y number is alwaysg> > respected. Is this right? In what document is this throughly > explained?  C    [SYSn] is selected whether using a local disk or MOP.  Check the 5    system manager's guide and the installation guide.	  F > 5. inside the [SYSn] directory there is a SYSCOMMON subdirectory; is: > it a copy of SYS$COMMON, or some sort of soft/hard-link?  C    SYSCOMMON is an alias for [VMS$COMMON].  An alias is closer to aXF    hard link than a soft link, but behaves different from a UNIX-styleB    link.  If you do "dir/file_id" you can see all of them have the>    same file identification number, therefor the same entry inE    [000000]INDEX.SYS, the same file header, and the same data blocks.p  B > 6. when booting with "-fl 0,1" the SYSBOOT> (or SYSGEN>, I can't> > recall) appears, which looks like s stripped-down version ofG > SYSGEN. The modifications made there (e.g., USE DEFAULT, SET, etc) doeE > seem permanent, in the sense that in the next boot the settings areeF > the same; how can I revert to a previous setting. Or in other words,8 > after a minimal boot, how can I make it boot normally?  A    You can save the normal parameters via SYSGEN at any time, anda?    restore them via SYSBOOT or SYSGEN by reading back the file..  E > 7. does AUTOGEN uses the current system values or the saved ones --nG > for instance, after a minimal boot (i.e., USE DEFAULT; SET STARTUP_P1k, > "MIN"), does AUTOGEN "fubar"'s the system?  <    AUTOGEN uses the current parameters, the current hardwareG    configuration, and the history file, along with MODPARAMS.DAT.  Then5    it does its own thing.t   ------------------------------  * Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 17:46:59 +0000 (UTC), From: lewis@PROBE.MITRE.ORG (Keith A. Lewis)) Subject: Re: misc questions about OpenVMSo. Message-ID: <ch51uj$jo3$1@newslocal.mitre.org>  H My Answers are from practical experience and may not be exactly correct.  | Rodrigo Ventura <yoda@isr.ist.utl.pt> writes in article <m38ybuarb8.fsf@pixie.isrnet> dated Wed, 01 Sep 2004 17:26:35 +0100:G >2. what's the relationship between MOP, MSCP and DECnet? I believe MOPeE >is really low level, in terms of only supporting booting and consoleeE >commands. MSCP is a kind of NFS (unix) for VMS. Does MSCP run on topr >of DECnet? Or not?   I Yes, MOP is a boot loading protocol.  It can be used to boot a VMS systemfK from a disk in a cluster on a LAN, or it can be used to boot lesser devicese such as terminal servers.   J MSCP is a disk sharing protocol used within a VMS cluster.  It runs on topK of SCS, not Decnet.  It differs from NFS in that it can only be used withinn= a cluster; whereas NFS can be used to share disks between two  otherwise-independent machines.i  I DECnet can also be used to share files, but I would only recommend it fore small files.  B >3. does this last question has anything to do with the differenceG >between the CLUSTER_CONFIG.COM and the CLUSTER_CONFIG_LAN.COM scripts?y7 >Does any one of these automatically configures DECnet?   5 CLUSTER_CONFIG calls CLUSTER_CONFIG_LAN in one place.l  E >4. regarding the boot flags on the alpha platform, in the form "bootsE >-fl x,y device", the x number is only used when booting from a local F >disk, and when booting from LAN (MOP?) the x is ignored (in favour of> >the [SYSn] directory indicated by MOP; the y number is always= >respected. Is this right? In what document is this throughly  >explained?c  F My personal experience supports that, I don't know if it's documented.  E >5. inside the [SYSn] directory there is a SYSCOMMON subdirectory; isc9 >it a copy of SYS$COMMON, or some sort of soft/hard-link?m  ? [SYSn]SYSCOMMON.DIR is an "alias" for [000000]VMS$COMMON.DIR.  -% "help set file /enter" for more info.t  A >6. when booting with "-fl 0,1" the SYSBOOT> (or SYSGEN>, I can'tu= >recall) appears, which looks like s stripped-down version of F >SYSGEN. The modifications made there (e.g., USE DEFAULT, SET, etc) doD >seem permanent, in the sense that in the next boot the settings areE >the same; how can I revert to a previous setting. Or in other words,o7 >after a minimal boot, how can I make it boot normally?   < Those parameters are stored in SYS$SYSTEM:ALPHAVMSSYS.PAR orK SYS$SYSTEM:VAXVMSSYS.PAR.  I don't know offhand if it creates a new versiongK of the file or modifies the existing version.  Either way, you can undo ther@ changes by restoring that file from a backup or by using SYSMAN.   $ MC SYSMAN* SYSMAN> PARAM USE CURRENTe SYSMAN> PARAM SET STARTUP_P1 ""- SYSMAN> PARAM WRITE CURRENT1 SYSMAN> EXIT  D >7. does AUTOGEN uses the current system values or the saved ones --F >for instance, after a minimal boot (i.e., USE DEFAULT; SET STARTUP_P1+ >"MIN"), does AUTOGEN "fubar"'s the system?1  K AUTOGEN gets its data from feedback info (which may include current params)nG and MODPARAMS.DAT.  Some parameters aren't even controlled by AUTOGEN.  5 Always review the report before using the new params.   0 --Keith Lewis              klewis {at} mitre.org> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 13:54:23 -0400 - From: Jf Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>:) Subject: Re: misc questions about OpenVMS , Message-ID: <41360CC8.7054C0B9@teksavvy.com>   Rodrigo Ventura wrote:E > I'm sort of a newbie in OpenVMS, and during my contact with OpenVMSsF > while trying to setup a cluster system with the hobbyist OpenVMS CD,* > I've been collecting a set of questions:  N First of all, nobody byt the HP employees call it "openVMS". We just say "VMS" in the real world.  F > 1. where can I find documentation about the low-level details of the > boot process of OpenVMS?  N If you are on Alpha, you'd probably want some book that is from 1992 or later.  : > 2. what's the relationship between MOP, MSCP and DECnet?   MOP is to BOOTBs MSCP is like SCSI over etherneta DECnet is like TCPIP  I At the protocol level, they are quite separate. However, MOP historicallytJ relied on the DECNET database to authorize a node to get served and defineK while file would be served to that node, but this is not not 100% accuranteo5 since you can hve the LANCP database do that job now..  L MOP simply feeds a file to a remote device when that device send an ethernet1 broadcast asking if anyone is willing to feed it.   H MSCP is not related to DECNET at all. It is a protocol such as SCSI thatF defines how a host talks to a disk drive. Older Digital Diskdrives hadH build-in MSCP controllers that spoke MSCP. But MSCP is not restricted toO certain cables. It can be transmitted serially over a variety of interconnects.   I The one protocol you omittyed is SCS, which is the cluster communicationsn6 protocol. MSCP travels between nodes via SCS packets.   L SCS is established extremely early in the boot sequence (when a node joins aL cluster). Then MSCP is loaded, allowing one node to see other node's drives,& and other nodes to see its own drives.  L DECNET is loaded (or not) much later in the boot process and is not used forM clustering per say, although some cluster management utilities do make use of) decnet by default.  F > commands. MSCP is a kind of NFS (unix) for VMS. Does MSCP run on top > of DECnet? Or not?  L MSCP is at a much lower level than NFS. MSCP offers disk block level access.N It is not File access. But from the user point of view, both provide access to  the file system on another node.  L The big difference is that with MSCP, the node that serves a drive does veryE little work: it simply sends the commands it receives via the clister J interconnects to the appropriate drive. With NFS, the server deamon on theL serving node performs the actual file access and serves the file's contents, takes care of locking etc.  C > 3. does this last question has anything to do with the differencewH > between the CLUSTER_CONFIG.COM and the CLUSTER_CONFIG_LAN.COM scripts?8 > Does any one of these automatically configures DECnet?  H I would *assume* that cluster_config would call up the _LAN one. But no,A neither would configure decnet.  If you have the real decnet (4),lK @SYS$MANAGER:NETCONFIG does the trick. If you have the much bigger and moretJ complex DECNET-5, I don't remember which procedure does its configuration.  3 DECNET and clustering are done at different levels.e  L If your cluster is based on ethernet interconnect, then the ethernet devicesN on your machine eaxamine packets as they arrive. Packets with the SCS protocolK type are sent to the cluster software. Packets with the DECNET protocol are,K sent to the decnet software. Packets with the MOP protocol type are sent toeI either DECNET or the LANCP software, depending on which you designated asnH handling MOP requests. LAT traffic is sent to the LAT driver (LAT is theN equivalent of TELNET but at a much lower level). And finally, traffic with theJ TCP protocol is sent to the TCPIP stack (where the packet is analysez, and@ depending on its port number is sent to the appropriate server).  I So as you see, ethernet traffic of varying protocols can co-exist without  depending on each other.  F > 5. inside the [SYSn] directory there is a SYSCOMMON subdirectory; is: > it a copy of SYS$COMMON, or some sort of soft/hard-link?  	 Actually:q  R $disk:[VMS$COMMON] contains all the directories/files that are common to the nodesL $disk:[SYS0] contains all the directories/files specific to the node booting from root 0pL $disk:[SYS1] contains all the directories/files specific to the node booting from root 1b  K each of SYS0 and SYS1 contain a .SYSCOMMON subdirectory. This is actually ae$ soft link to the $DISK:[VMS$COMMON].  M When a system boots, logical names are setup to point to the apropriate root, N so that software will access file transparently without knowing which root was
 used to boot.       F > the same; how can I revert to a previous setting. Or in other words,8 > after a minimal boot, how can I make it boot normally?  	 MC SYSGENe SYSGEN> USE CURRENTd SYSGEN> SET STARTUP_P1 = ""  SYSGEN> WRITE CURRENTh SYSTEN> EXIT  L When you are in SYSBOOT>, the USE CURRENT is implicit, and the CONTINUE doesM an implicit WRITE CURRENT.  You must then undo those changes with SYSGEN oncenI booted. (not that on Alpha, the suggested way is to use SYSMAN to executewB SYSGEN commands, but for me, SYSGEN is much more straighforwards)  B > 7. does AUTOGEN uses the current system values or the saved ones   For SYSGEN:u' CURRENT means the currently saved ones. + ACTIVE  means the ones currently executing.-  K There are many SYSGEN parameters that are dynamic. They come into action asmH soon as you issue the WRITE ACTIVE command. But if you do not also WRITE= CURRENT, then these changes will not be seen when you reboot.e  0 AUTOGEN uses the CURRENT (eg: saved) atrributes.  N When in SYSGEN, you can also speficy filenames with the USE and WRITE commands: to save backups, or to modify attributes for another node.   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Sep 2004 07:14:22 -0700  From: supe_ulhas@rediffmail.comf Subject: need help= Message-ID: <c4fc6627.0409010614.31e9f5e9@posting.google.com>h   how do i access SETCIM records,D, what is the exact structure of setcim record     thanks   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 14:06:58 +0100l< From: Andrew Harrison <andrew_remove__s._harrison@s_u_n.com>/ Subject: Re: Somewhat OT: Is AMD the new Intel?e0 Message-ID: <ch4hhk$75f$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   David J Dachtera wrote:t& > This is just to juicy to not post... >   2 What the article doesn't point out is that its the3 system stupid also applies to Itanium because it isk4 limitted by exactly the same interconnect technology1 as Nocona, worse in some respects because Itaniumd2 has up to a ~30% higher bandwidth requirement than Nocona.i   Regardsh Andrew HarrisontJ > ========================================================================J > TEST CENTER REPORT                              http://www.infoworld.comJ > ======================================================================== > Monday, August 30, 2004u >  > J > ======================================================================== > * Is AMD the new Intel?r/ > * Opteron vs. Nocona: It's the system, stupidn > * How AMD stayed in the game > I > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --t >  > IS AMD THE NEW INTEL? J > ========================================================================- > Posted August 27, 2004 3:00 PM Pacific Timee > G > You just gotta love a Cinderella story. Advanced Micro Devices is the I > hardscrabble kid who came to Silicon Valley with a dollar and a pack ofhF > Luckies and ended up in a building with its name on top. AMD's rapidJ > rise from startup to $5 billion semiconductor powerhouse is, as HumphreyI > Bogart's English teacher once said, the stuff of which dreams are made.n >  > For the full story: : > http://www.infoworld.com/article/04/08/27/35FEamd_1.html >  > - > OPTERON VS. NOCONA: IT'S THE SYSTEM, STUPIDoJ > ========================================================================- > Posted August 27, 2004 3:00 PM Pacific Time  > J > If you think AMD's Opteron and Intel's Nocona -- or more formally, "XeonJ > Processor with 800MHz System Bus" -- are cut from the same 64-bit cloth,J > look closer. Yes, they're compatible at the instruction-set and registerC > levels; they should be because they're both based on AMD's x86-64lJ > specification. But the total system architecture surrounding these chipsF > -- which includes pathways to other CPUs, memory, and peripherals --D > exhibits several differences that factor into buying decisions and! > developers' platform targeting.d >  > For the full story: @ > http://www.infoworld.com/article/04/08/27/35FEamdoptnoc_1.html >  >  > HOW AMD STAYED IN THE GAMEJ > ========================================================================- > Posted August 27, 2004 3:00 PM Pacific Timei > H > In 1999, while AMD was suffering through one of the darkest periods inI > its history, the financially strapped semiconductor maker needed to get H > the word out about its new Pentium II-compatible processor, Athlon. SoE > it did what any serious company would do: It enlisted the aid of PCc: > gamers, overclockers, and build-it-yourself enthusiasts. >  > For the full story:lD > http://www.infoworld.com/article/04/08/27/35FEamdgrassroots_1.html   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 06:54:26 -0700# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>r/ Subject: RE: Somewhat OT: Is AMD the new Intel? 9 Message-ID: <NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECIAEMNDLAA.tom@kednos.com>o  D Gee, that doesn't bode well for Itanium.  It is hard to imagine thatC Itanium is going to get Intel's full attention, which is imperativet to making the chip competitive.n  C I would hope that VMS amangement has the perspicacity to be working,C on porting VMS to Opteron and Power 5, so as not to be caught on antB iceberg in a warm sea.  Sun is certainly keeping its options open.   < -----Original Message-----E < From: Andrew Harrison [mailto:andrew_remove__s._harrison@s_u_n.com]i- < Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 6:07 AM, < To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Come1 < Subject: Re: Somewhat OT: Is AMD the new Intel?E <p <i < David J Dachtera wrote:t( < > This is just to juicy to not post... < >a <n4 < What the article doesn't point out is that its the5 < system stupid also applies to Itanium because it ise6 < limitted by exactly the same interconnect technology3 < as Nocona, worse in some respects because Itaniumc4 < has up to a ~30% higher bandwidth requirement than	 < Nocona.l <l	 < Regardss < Andrew HarrisoneL < > ========================================================================L < > TEST CENTER REPORT                              http://www.infoworld.comL < > ======================================================================== < > Monday, August 30, 2004f < >  < >aL < > ======================================================================== < > * Is AMD the new Intel?y1 < > * Opteron vs. Nocona: It's the system, stupid   < > * How AMD stayed in the game < > K < > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --e < >  < > IS AMD THE NEW INTEL?nL < > ========================================================================/ < > Posted August 27, 2004 3:00 PM Pacific Times < >.I < > You just gotta love a Cinderella story. Advanced Micro Devices is thejK < > hardscrabble kid who came to Silicon Valley with a dollar and a pack ofeH < > Luckies and ended up in a building with its name on top. AMD's rapidL < > rise from startup to $5 billion semiconductor powerhouse is, as HumphreyK < > Bogart's English teacher once said, the stuff of which dreams are made.t < >i < > For the full story:A< < > http://www.infoworld.com/article/04/08/27/35FEamd_1.html < >  < >u/ < > OPTERON VS. NOCONA: IT'S THE SYSTEM, STUPIDhL < > ========================================================================/ < > Posted August 27, 2004 3:00 PM Pacific Time  < >hL < > If you think AMD's Opteron and Intel's Nocona -- or more formally, "XeonL < > Processor with 800MHz System Bus" -- are cut from the same 64-bit cloth,L < > look closer. Yes, they're compatible at the instruction-set and registerE < > levels; they should be because they're both based on AMD's x86-64sL < > specification. But the total system architecture surrounding these chipsH < > -- which includes pathways to other CPUs, memory, and peripherals --F < > exhibits several differences that factor into buying decisions and# < > developers' platform targeting.e < >e < > For the full story:eB < > http://www.infoworld.com/article/04/08/27/35FEamdoptnoc_1.html < >t < >a < > HOW AMD STAYED IN THE GAMEL < > ========================================================================/ < > Posted August 27, 2004 3:00 PM Pacific Timey < >tJ < > In 1999, while AMD was suffering through one of the darkest periods inK < > its history, the financially strapped semiconductor maker needed to get J < > the word out about its new Pentium II-compatible processor, Athlon. SoG < > it did what any serious company would do: It enlisted the aid of PCr< < > gamers, overclockers, and build-it-yourself enthusiasts. < >s < > For the full story: F < > http://www.infoworld.com/article/04/08/27/35FEamdgrassroots_1.html <t < ---h( < Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.< < Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A < Version: 6.0.735 / Virus Database: 489 - Release Date: 8/6/2004  <  ----& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).? Version: 6.0.735 / Virus Database: 489 - Release Date: 8/6/2004v   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 12:38:42 -04004- From: Jf Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>n/ Subject: Re: Somewhat OT: Is AMD the new Intel? , Message-ID: <4135FB0F.FB5945D2@teksavvy.com>   Tom Linden wrote:eF > Gee, that doesn't bode well for Itanium.  It is hard to imagine thatE > Itanium is going to get Intel's full attention, which is imperativet! > to making the chip competitive.a  K IA64 has an announced 3 year lifespan/roadmap for now. Engineers were givennF tasks. They'll deliver what they can when they can. The only decisions+ management can make pertain to compromises.i  N For instance, in order for AMD to deliver its dual core ships early, they haveJ compromised on the cache, choosing to have 2 separate caches, instead of aH single cache serving both cores (as is the case for Power architecture).  M Intel has also made that compromise for at least the dual core 8086, not sure- about IA64.   E > I would hope that VMS amangement has the perspicacity to be working@E > on porting VMS to Opteron and Power 5, so as not to be caught on anD > iceberg in a warm sea. v  N I think that the engineers have stated a few times that this time around, theyN are restructuring the code to make it easier to port to other platforms should the need arise.   M At this point in time, nobody within HP would ever reveal any covert plans toiK consider chips other than IA64 for ist enterprise systems, even if Hoff haslL been sequestered in some locked basement at ZKO to secretely work on porting VMS to the 64 bit 8086.A   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Sep 2004 08:18:29 -0700i% From: tadamsmar@yahoo.com (Tom Adams)r, Subject: Standard Software Warranty Question= Message-ID: <ea44f5a1.0409010718.34b0a3bf@posting.google.com>   F In the past the standard software warranty for Digital was 1 year with right to upgrade for that year.l  A But these days, it looks like the HP standard warranty on VMS and F layered products is only a 90 day warranty for conformance to the SPD.   Am I correct about this?   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Sep 2004 10:49:37 -0700-& From: magalettac@massdor.com (Carmine)( Subject: strange decnet-plus problems...= Message-ID: <4093a3af.0409010949.5d858ebc@posting.google.com>   D I can only set host to my new system via decnet ,if I first set host? from this box to others , has anyone seen anything like this ??s   Node1e $ set hos Node2 = %SYSTEM-F-UNREACHABLE, remote node is not currently reachableo   Node1h $ telnet node2 (works fine...)i Node2e $ set hos node1o (works fine...)a logout from both nodes   Node1e $ set hos node2h (works for a while...)  
 Later in day e Node1  $ set hos node2o= %SYSTEM-F-UNREACHABLE, remote node is not currently reachablew   Node1s* $ set hos node1(to itself , always works )  ; This is a brand new system is there a patch I am missing ??a	 VMS 7.3-2e decnet-osi for VMS   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Sep 2004 09:01:27 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) ' Subject: Re: SWS-2.0 (Apache) & CGI ??? 3 Message-ID: <nQEqmgrMCJSZ@eisner.encompasserve.org>   f In article <WUaZc.10291$7i2.635192@news20.bellglobal.com>, "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> writes: > J > "Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote in message/ > news:6VdetO4CM+Kg@eisner.encompasserve.org...g > [...snip...]J >>    The last time I used HP Basic, it was ROM based.  And VAX-11/VMS 1.5 > was  >>    shipping.t >>M > Hey. I seem to remember dorking around with HP BASIC on something called ann+ > HP-85. Is this what you are referring to?-  I    According to an old resume, it was a 9xxx desktop system.  Had nothingn%    to do with later 9000/7xx systems.n   ------------------------------  * Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 12:41:58 +0000 (UTC)6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)+ Subject: Re: Volume Shadow Copy Stays at 0%i1 Message-ID: <newscache$1c4d3i$n5o1$1@news.sil.at>e  w In article <ch2jc2$h81$1@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes:ya >In article <FJxCMu9qRfBM@cuebid.zko.dec.com>, brooks@cuebid.zko.dec.nospam (Rob Brooks) writes: h& >> (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) writes:6 >> > brooks@cuebid.zko.dec.nospam (Rob Brooks) writes:= >> >>peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) writes:u, >> >>> btw. What does SHOW SHADOW tell you ? >> >> K >> >>He's on a VAX; OpenVMS VAX V7.3 was released before SHOW SHADOW, whiche1 >> >>was first supported on OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-2.- >> oL >> > Does this eventually mean that OpenVMS VAX V8.2 will have SHOW SHADOW ? >> nO >> No, it does not mean that; I don't know if SET/SHOW SHADOW will be availabler >> for OpenVMS VAX.y >@H >I think there is some misunderstanding here.  While 8.2 is slated to beG >a simultaneous release on ALPHA, ITANIUM and VAX, no-one has ever said < >that this would bring VAX up, feature-wise, to the level ofF >ALPHA/Itanium.  (ALPHA and Itanium have a common code base, so it is C >more reasonable to expect feature parity there.)  There are a few fC >features which are ALPHA only, and it will probably stay that way.n  4 I did and do not have this misunderstanding here ;-)  K But the excuse^Wexplaination was the release date of OpenVMS (VAX V7.3) andtF not that the OP has a VAX and is therefor SOL. And therfore I couldn'tH resist to ask. And _maybe_ SET/SHOW SHADOW will come to VAX sometimes...   -- o Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERF% Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  * Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 12:34:45 +0000 (UTC)6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)2 Subject: Re: [OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-2] System freezed1 Message-ID: <newscache$zz3d3i$n5o1$1@news.sil.at>t  m In article <224291b.0408311038.6fb5d777@posting.google.com>, martinkirby12@yahoo.co.uk (Martin Kirby) writes:dp >peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) wrote in message news:<newscache$ogeb3i$ywi1$1@news.sil.at>...I >> Yesterday I had a nice suprise finding my PWS workstation frozen afteraM >> the weekend. AMDS (which I fortunately configured long ago) showed nothingfL >> on limit (97% CPU, 82% Mem, 124 BIO/s which is quite usual) but DTSESSION0 >> was MWAIT (RWMBX) and I wasn't able to login. >> eG >> So I tried logging via SSH and later via LAT but these processes gota) >> stuck too (COMO but with Prio 15/4 !).a >....  > = >DTSESSION in RWMBX rings a bell as something I have seen butiB >unfortunately I am away from my office for the next two weeks and >can't check my records.  E DTSESSION in MWAIT/RWMBX could be one problem, but COMO is definitelyL5 another one (hopefully fixed with VMS732_SYS V5 now).s  " >Was DECW$SERVER possibly looping?  K Not this time. But it did yesterday afternoon when I fired up MOZILLA Mail.*K Fix is still to kill DECW$SERVER (gee, I thought after so many new versionsDK of VMS and MOTIF this problem is fixed for years, but no it is still there)*I and so I installed the VMS732_BACKUP V1, VMS732_SYS V5 and VMS732_F11X V21+ also and rebooted. We'll see what's next...5  F >                                  Do you have the GRAPHICS UPDATE ECO	 >applied?r  @ Of course. And it got replaced by VMS732_UPDATE some months ago.F Since yesterday I'm up to date with ECOs (for the next days/weeks ;-).   -- r Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERt% Network and OpenVMS system specialistd E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 14:38:00 +02004* From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net> Subject: [OT] Cars and trains.* Message-ID: <2plu5cFm86mcU1@uni-berlin.de>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:5 > In article <GTuJYCaKLXJx@eisner.encompasserve.org>,a@ > 	koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: > W >>In article <2pgv60Fklj2aU1@uni-berlin.de>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:E >> >>6 >>>Because the government in some other country breaksG >>>both your legs for jaywalking wouldn't make this one better for only  >>>breaking one of your legs.  >>J >>   I have to return you non sequitur.  We were taking financial issues,  >>   not asault. >  > H > It was an analogy.  Let's put it in financial terms.  Just because oneJ > country steals from it's citizens wallets doesn't make it OK for another+ > to do it because they take a little less.i >  > E >>   Although I personnally would rather have only one leg broken.  In= >>   think I could get the hell out of there easier that way.i >>B >>   And I think a more usefull comparison would be a country thatA >>   forces you to use an econo-box vs. one where filling up yourkG >>   Excursion makes you wonder if an Explorer would have done the job.E >  > C > And as long as we're comparing cars now, why are 54mpg cars stillw@ > available in Europe and not allowed to be imported here? (EverC > look at the offerings from Smart?  Ideal urban vehicles.  SmalleriC > size, lower gas consumption, lower pollution.  And their not even 
 > hybrids. >   D I had a small diesel Peugeot 15 years ago which delivered 54 mpg no  matter how hard I drove it.L  B It was as quick up to 45-50 mph as many petrol cars, although the H acceleration after that was sluggish, to say the least. Still great for H town and the twisty country roads in my area. Within a couple of years, F a turbo-diesel model came out, and those were definitely not sluggish.  F I regularly see Smarts zip past me on the autobahn doing about 90 mph H (exceeding the speed limit), and in Zurich you will often see 2 sharing 7 a parking spot for one normal car. They look great fun.Y   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.485 ************************