1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 03 Sep 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 488       Contents:! Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ??? ! Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ??? ! Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ??? ( Re: Big IA64 test coming in a few months+ could SET DISPLAY be caching an IP address?  CPU Temperature from DCL Re: CPU Temperature from DCL RE: CPU Temperature from DCL DSPP renewal Re: Flat panel VT replacement? Re: Future of Decnet Re: Future of Decnet Re: Future of Decnet Re: Future of Decnet Re: Future of Decnet Re: Future of Decnet Re: Future of Decnet" Re: Itanium: EFI... no fs0: device  Re: OpenVMS running on HP 3000's  Re: OpenVMS running on HP 3000's Posting etiquette  Re: Posting etiquette  Re: Posting etiquette  reset rx2600 Re: reset rx2600 Re: Single Signon  Re: Single Signon * Re: SMTP: stray messages left in directory6 Sun, er....HP not selling enough Itanics to help Intel Supported Itanium hardware Re: Supported Itanium hardware- VMS website problem: DCPS release notes blank : Where is the mainstream VMS DT and Lights-Out advertising? Yet Another Multia Question   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 16:35:41 -0400# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> * Subject: Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ???, Message-ID: <SrOdndD7_6KGGarcRVn-pg@igs.net>   Tom Linden wrote:  > < -----Original Message-----E > < From: Michael Kraemer [mailto:kraemer@biors6a.gsi.de]On Behalf Of  > < Michael Kraemer . > < Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2004 9:16 AM > < To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com - > < Subject: RE: A whopping 50 percent... ???  > <  > < B > < In article <NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECICEOGDLAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom$ > < Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes: > < >  > < > " > < > < -----Original Message-----F > < > < From: Michael Kraemer [mailto:kraemer@biors6a.gsi.de]On Behalf > Of < > < Michael Kraemer2 > < > < Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2004 7:49 AM! > < > < To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 1 > < > < Subject: RE: A whopping 50 percent... ???  > < > <  > < > < F > < > < In article <NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECIAEOEDLAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom( > < > < Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:	 > < > < > + > < > < > AS400's use a Power PC core since  > < > < > sometime in the 80's > < > < B > < > < make that the 90's and it is somehow correct. PPC appeared > < around 93/94.  > < > ' > < > I have RS6000 manuals dated 1990.  > < D > < That's the original Power box. PPC came later. AS400 had its ownE > CPU, < which was replaced by some Power/PPC variant in the mid 90's 
 > (or so). >  > Same instruction set.  >  > <  > < > < H > < > < > As proof by counter example look at the x86's they are pushing > < > < 4GHz with an > < > < > ad hoc3 > < > < > architecture, VAX would have been easier.  > < > < G > < > < one might be tempted to say that x86 is so primitive that it is  > < > < nearly RISC  > < > < already.E > < > Actually, not.  It is an accumulator design, had address modes, # > all < > standard features of CISC  > < & > < well, I forgot the smiley here ... > < % > < > < (OK, compiler writers ... ;-)  > < > H > < > But it does make a difference, speaking as a compiler writer.  TheG > < > 21064 took 17 ticks to compute A = B + C;  where these were 16bit E > < > integers, because there were no such instructions, on had to do @ > < > shifts and masks.  That is another example of management'sG > failure. < > That meant that existing C code would perform miserably. E > It had to be < > rewritten to conform to the new instruction set in G > order to perfom < > well.  So, you can only do so much in writing the 
 > compiler. < F > < Seems more a problem of the CPU people not talking to the compilerC > people. < Or everybody at DEC thought that the future would be so < > "big" that < nobody would need stinking 16bits anymore ... > G > Precisely my point, why would you forgo an existing, sizable and very F > loyal customer base in favour of a subjunctive vision of the future. >  > <  > < > < F > < > < when Power/PPC came around there wasn't such a large code base
 > for it. < > > > < > From IBM's prespective there was,  it had to potentailly > < address the needs E > < > of their ENTIRE customer base.  Their compilers were written in  > < a languageC > < > they called PL8, which was essentially a modified PL/I, which  > < facilitated 9 > < > the other compilers like Cobol, Fortran and even C.  > < D > < Well, the best you can say is that IBM saw the need for "legacy" > < data types > < even for fancy new CPUs. > 6 > In the business world, you still need fixed decimal. > E > < As for the common base of their compilers, I slightly doubt that. D > < The runtimes of their PL/I and Fortran were pretty incompatible,; > < at least on MVS. On AIX, it was better, since they were  > < presumably developed > < from scratch.  > G > Interesting point, IBM finally has a common language environment, LE,  > something 9 > vax had more than 20 years ago (thanks in part to PL/I)     E And that's something that HP does nothing to promote as a feature for ' programmer productivity or reusability.    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 03 Sep 2004 04:08:50 GMT % From: Roger Ivie <rivie@ridgenet.net> * Subject: Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ???3 Message-ID: <slrncjfri3.3li.rivie@Stench.no.domain>   8 On 2004-09-02, Michael Kraemer <m.kraemer@gsi.de> wrote:a > In article <NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECIKENFDLAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:  >>  D >> < It was, however, enough for me (and others) to leave VMS (apart >> < from other reasons).  >>   >> And those were ...  > - > Well, the buzzword of the time was "open".  I > VMS was as much "closed" as MVS or other "propietary" OSs at that time, < > UNIX were "open" systems with competition between vendors.  B Until NetBSD and friends started happening, VMS was much more openC from MY perspective. Initially, you got listings on microfiche with = the machine so you could see what the OS was up to. And I was C able to use my trusty 3.2 microfiche well into the Alpha timeframe; < about the only trouble I had with them involved the terminal= port/class driver stuff that happened around VMS 5. A trip to < the local university library with a pocket full of dimes for; the printer on the fiche reader was usually enough to solve  whatever problems I ran into.   B Later, it was just a matter of a couple K bucks to get listings on CD-ROM.   A ObAnecdote: Following my first Alpha/VMS driver experience, I was C taken aside by the manager of the group I was working for and asked B what I thought about Alpha/VMS. I said "It's great! It's just likeB VAX/VMS and my trusty 3.2 fiche even still work most of the time."= He thought that was interesting because my cohort was always  ; complaining about how different Alpha/VMS was from VAX/VMS.   > Unix was always a great mystery to me because I didn't have an= AT&T license and did not work for a company that could afford < one; it would have taken a $50K license from AT&T to buy the; RIGHT to pay a few K to DEC to get Ultrix source listings.  ; I developed device drivers for Ultrix on superstation using ; example code smuggled to me by the DEC gods. I didn't start C understanding Ultrix until I managed to get my hands on NetBSD 0.9.  --  
 Roger Ivie rivie@ridgenet.net http://anachronda.webhop.org/  -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- 
 Version: 3.12 H GCS/P d- s:+++ a+ C++ UB--(++++) !P L- !E W++ N++ o-- K w O- M+ V+++ PS+? PE++ Y+ PGP t+ 5+ X-- R tv++ b++ DI+++ D+ G e++ h--- r+++ z+++   ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 03 Sep 2004 04:53:12 GMT 0 From: glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu>* Subject: Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ???/ Message-ID: <YMSZc.361294$%_6.177293@attbi_s01>    Bill Todd wrote:   (snip) (someone might have said)   I > 1.  Can the VAX architecture as it stands now carry us through the next H > decade or more?  Absolutely not:  if nothing else gets us, the lack ofG > 64-bit support will start to before then.  So out goes the no-change,  > low-cost, short-term option.  ( It might be that they were just unlucky.  J > 2.  Can we extend the VAX architecture compatibly to 64 bits to carry usH > through the next 15 years or so?  Almost certainly not:  everything weK > currently know about processor design suggests that CISC won't be able to M > keep up with RISC (who would've thunk you might be able to *emulate* CISC - H > especially one as complex as VAX - at near-RISC speeds back then?  youL > couldn't even have fitted the emulator on your chip, let alone a processorJ > as well), and the performance and price/performance divergence over thatI > long a time would kill us.  So out goes the modest-change, medium-cost,  > medium-term option.   A Who would have thought back then that IBM S/370 could be extended E to 31 bit addressing, and 64 bit address/data compatibly, maintaining 1 the ability to execute programs compiled in 1964.   8 It might be that the S/370 instruction set was easier to; extend than VAX.   The VAX small page size, and complicated 9 solution to interruptible instructions, for example, were  complications.  K > 3.  Can we build something completely new in 64 bits that's optimized for K > speed and a long enough life to pay back the investment, steal a march on K > the competition that's currently stolen a march on us, and emulate VAX in J > *software* fast enough to satisfy the customers who can't/won't migrate? > Hmmmmm...   8 And Apple succeeded in the conversion from 680x0 to PPC.   -- glen    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Sep 2004 20:24:17 -0500 + From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) 1 Subject: Re: Big IA64 test coming in a few months 3 Message-ID: <$lpDyZUgjEvr@eisner.encompasserve.org>   j In article <qc2dnTCF94M9narcRVn-rw@metrocastcablevision.com>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes: > : > "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message/ > news:7uIH6wPRUXA6@eisner.encompasserve.org...   8 >> In article <413505E0.7D672381@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei( > <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: >> >L >> > If the release of IA64 comes much after the 8686 for intel, it will add > fuel< >> > to the argument that IA64 will always lag the industry. >> > >>@ >> Not really.  You need to get out some more.  There was a good4 >> recent discussion about Montecito (2005) Itanium: >> >> http://tinyurl.com/3v2r5  >>5 >> >Freq = 8720 GFLOPs/s/(218 nodes * 4 CPUs/node * 4  >> >GFLOP/cycle) = 2.500 GHz.  >> >3 >> >A nice even number. Hmmm 20 GFLOP/s per socket,  >> >not bad at all!  >>I >> It's been stated that Montecito would double 1'5 6M I2 performance. It 	 > appears . >> clear now that it would be double per core. > N > Except, of course that it *won't* be double per core, as further exploration  > of that thread would reveal.    < 	No.  As Jose went on - yes he acknowledged only 67% speedup< 	due to clock speed - not taking into account other factors,B 	i.e. 24 MBytes cache, faster bus, SoE-M, compiler improvements.  C 	But let's suppose *just* for the sake of argument these additional D 	factors only add 20% improvement over and above - okay 87% speedup.  / > Not even if Montecito actually can run at 2.5 F > GHz, which the difficulty that Intel is reportedly having bumping upL > Madison's speed (it's now being reported that they're cutting back MadisonM > 9M to 1.6 GHz rather than the target 1.7 GHz, which is kind of ironic given K > the recent speculation at RWT by Itanic fans that they might hit 1.9 GHz)   < 	You're referring to the DigiTimes rumor.  Paul slapped that 	down:   http://tinyurl.com/6wajy  Q >As indicated previously, the Madison 9M will have a 9MB L3 cache but it will run K >at a clock speed of 1.6GHz, instead of the originally planned 1.7GHz, said   sources at Taiwan server makers.  5 Given the long introduction lead time for server MPUs 4 and early shipment of production class parts to OEMs8 for qualification, a delay or frequency shortfall of the2 type suggested is extremely remote IMO. Especially4 since Intel is widely expected to announce the I2 9M at IDF *next week*.   8 	So we can safely dismiss the 1.6 GHz rumor as pure FUD.  N > calls into question even more than the problems they've had getting PrescottN > (in 90 nm.) to run much of *any* faster than Northwood (in 130 nm.), despite@ > having extended the pipeline significantly in that transition.   	Stretch time.  K > Not to mention the question of whether even if Montecito can clock at 2.5 N > GHz they can *cool* it with both cores running at that speed.  There is someJ > talk of real miracles in this area, but then there's been enough of thatK > kind of talk throughout Itanic's rather disappointing life that it's hard / > not to take it with a grain or three of salt.   A 	October (or in this case) September surprise.  The details about > 	Intel's power reducing technologies as swirled through RWT as> 	we know.  But yes - nice to know details.  The fact that Paul> 	pointed out from that German presentation about 2.5 GHz parts: 	coming must mean they are coming that or Intel is telling< 	customers fables.  Since 2.5 GHz is coming - they must have0 	some nice power reducing features in Montecito.   > D > But even at 2.5 GHz, a Montecito core won't offer nearly twice theI > performance of a current Madison core.  The clock rate will be only 67% K > faster, there'll only be twice the on-chip cache per core, and the memory * > subsystem won't be nearly twice as fast. >   @ 	I don't know.  Surely a faster bus.  But - granted - this might< 	be gamesmanship.  I certainly don't expect 2.5 GHz parts atA 	FRS.  A safe sandbag would be 50% faster clock and an additional C 	10% to other factors so 60% faster per core FRS.  That 100% figure " 	is later - if at all (maybe 87%).  L > The one thing that's always been consistent about your Itanic predictions,N > Rob, is that the reality never comes anywhere near meeting them.  Until 2007L > (when we'll see just what the Alpha people have come up with, and what IBMM > has for POWER6, and what AMD has for K9), there's every indication that for I > high-end commercial workloads a POWER core will have close to twice the L > throughput of an Itanic core, and that in the lower end (but with up to 32K > cores per system in the Montecito time-frame, so it's not *that* low-end) N > Opteron will keep up with (and in many cases exceed) Itanic performance just) > fine at a far lower system price point.     C 	I don't think so.  But no matter.  Opteron - like most things AMD  F 	does - will be a small subset of Intel's share regardless of segment  	we slice and dice.   @ 	Not unlike being a big Gateway fan - sure Gateway is there, but 	Gateway sure isn't Dell.    > 3 > Perhaps you're the one who needs to get out more.  >   ! 	Not really.  Time is on my side.    				Rob    ------------------------------  * Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 19:26:18 +0000 (UTC)P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)4 Subject: could SET DISPLAY be caching an IP address?$ Message-ID: <ch7s4p$orh$1@online.de>  E Here's the situation: I run MOZILLA on a reasonably powerful machine, @ and set the display to a less powerful machine with a dynamic IPB address.  MOZILLA is running in a batch job.  When the IP address I changes, MOZILLA will eventually fail, and another batch job will notice  G that the MOZILLA job is missing and re-submit it.  This works, but the  E delay seems too long (an hour or so).  For debugging purposes, I put  H some SHOW TIME and TCPIP SHOW DEVICE commands in the procedures for the I batch jobs.  Now the restart of MOZILLA after they dynamic IP address on  + the display machine changes is much faster.   G The argument of SET DISPLAY is a name, not a number.  Could it be that  H when the job fails and is restarted, the display is directed to the OLD E IP address (i.e., it has been cached) and that the TCPIP SHOW DEVICE  H forces a lookup and hence an update of the cache?  (There is no problem E with TTL or whatever with the DNS provider; I'm using DynDNS.org for  G this and the new address is visible worldwide only a few seconds after  D the update goes through.  I am also 100% certain that the update is 0 successful very soon after the address changes.)  A This situation in general is slow but usable.  What is the least  F powerful machine anyone has run Mozilla on?  Am I correct in assuming ' that the bottleneck is memory, not CPU?   E The display machine is a DEC 3000/600 with 192 MB.  Would it even be  E worth trying to run Mozilla locally on this box?  If not, what about  D with a memory increase?  (What's the max, by the way, for this box?)   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Sep 2004 12:51:11 -0700 . From: fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso)! Subject: CPU Temperature from DCL = Message-ID: <f30679fb.0409021151.1d87e988@posting.google.com>   	 Dear Sirs     B I tested a procedure to verify the temperature of the ES-40 system and ...     + -------------------------------------------       ES40 CPU Temperature Monitor+ ------------------------------------------- 8 CPU  0   Temperature  100 WARNING - HIGH CPU TEMPERATURE8 CPU  1   Temperature  104 WARNING - HIGH CPU TEMPERATURE8 CPU  2   Temperature  100 WARNING - HIGH CPU TEMPERATURE7 CPU  3   Temperature  93 WARNING - HIGH CPU TEMPERATURE 7 CPU  4   Temperature  95 WARNING - HIGH CPU TEMPERATURE 7 CPU  5   Temperature  98 WARNING - HIGH CPU TEMPERATURE 7 CPU  6   Temperature  95 WARNING - HIGH CPU TEMPERATURE   C Are these values in Celsius or Fahrenheit ? My systems are working  ' fine. And I have only 4 CPUs - not 6 !    & display f$getsyi("temperature_vector")  FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF23252321262727   Regards    FC   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 20:51:14 -0500 @ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>% Subject: Re: CPU Temperature from DCL 6 Message-ID: <4137CE12.369008CF@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   Fabio Cardoso wrote: >  > Dear Sirs  > D > I tested a procedure to verify the temperature of the ES-40 system	 > and ...  > - > ------------------------------------------- " >     ES40 CPU Temperature Monitor- > ------------------------------------------- : > CPU  0   Temperature  100 WARNING - HIGH CPU TEMPERATURE: > CPU  1   Temperature  104 WARNING - HIGH CPU TEMPERATURE: > CPU  2   Temperature  100 WARNING - HIGH CPU TEMPERATURE9 > CPU  3   Temperature  93 WARNING - HIGH CPU TEMPERATURE 9 > CPU  4   Temperature  95 WARNING - HIGH CPU TEMPERATURE 9 > CPU  5   Temperature  98 WARNING - HIGH CPU TEMPERATURE 9 > CPU  6   Temperature  95 WARNING - HIGH CPU TEMPERATURE  > D > Are these values in Celsius or Fahrenheit ? My systems are working( > fine. And I have only 4 CPUs - not 6 ! > ( > display f$getsyi("temperature_vector")" > FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF23252321262727  E If you Google for that, you'll likely turn up a good number of posts, ; not the least of which is from "the wizard" himself (Hoff).   ( As I recall, the answer is: unsupported.   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 19:05:39 -0700# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> % Subject: RE: CPU Temperature from DCL 9 Message-ID: <NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECIAEOPDLAA.tom@kednos.com>    < -----Original Message-----G < From: David J. Dachtera [mailto:djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net] , < Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2004 6:51 PM < To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ' < Subject: Re: CPU Temperature from DCL  <  <  < Fabio Cardoso wrote: < > 
 < > Dear Sirs  < > F < > I tested a procedure to verify the temperature of the ES-40 system < > and ...  < > / < > ------------------------------------------- $ < >     ES40 CPU Temperature Monitor/ < > ------------------------------------------- < < > CPU  0   Temperature  100 WARNING - HIGH CPU TEMPERATURE< < > CPU  1   Temperature  104 WARNING - HIGH CPU TEMPERATURE< < > CPU  2   Temperature  100 WARNING - HIGH CPU TEMPERATURE; < > CPU  3   Temperature  93 WARNING - HIGH CPU TEMPERATURE ; < > CPU  4   Temperature  95 WARNING - HIGH CPU TEMPERATURE ; < > CPU  5   Temperature  98 WARNING - HIGH CPU TEMPERATURE ; < > CPU  6   Temperature  95 WARNING - HIGH CPU TEMPERATURE  < > F < > Are these values in Celsius or Fahrenheit ? My systems are working* < > fine. And I have only 4 CPUs - not 6 !  L If you stick your finger on the cpu, you would have to conclude that it were Celsius    < > * < > display f$getsyi("temperature_vector")$ < > FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF23252321262727 < G < If you Google for that, you'll likely turn up a good number of posts, = < not the least of which is from "the wizard" himself (Hoff).  < * < As I recall, the answer is: unsupported. <  < -- < David J. Dachtera  < dba DJE Systems  < http://www.djesys.com/ < * < Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:! < http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/  <  < --- ( < Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.< < Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A < Version: 6.0.735 / Virus Database: 489 - Release Date: 8/6/2004  <  --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).? Version: 6.0.735 / Virus Database: 489 - Release Date: 8/6/2004    ------------------------------  * Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 19:17:11 +0000 (UTC)3 From: "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com>  Subject: DSPP renewal 2 Message-ID: <ch7rjm$ntr$1@hercules.btinternet.com>   Hi.    Please help.  = The "I forgot" web page does not recognize any combination of  richard/maher/tier3/mymail.    Is it just me?   Cheers Richard   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Sep 2004 23:48:44 -0500 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) ' Subject: Re: Flat panel VT replacement? 3 Message-ID: <riODvBo3p3G$@eisner.encompasserve.org>   U In article <00A37471.B8EEB644@SendSpamHere.ORG>,   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:   J > I have a POwerbook G4 17" laptop with has built-in bluetooth.  I orderedK > Apple's bluetooth wireless keyboard.  It has the look, feel and layout of  > the LK keyboards.   ) Control key directly to the left of "A" ?   + And is there an equivalent wired keyboard ?    ------------------------------  * Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 18:48:58 +0000 (UTC)P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: Future of Decnet $ Message-ID: <ch7puq$lbl$1@online.de>  = In article <f30679fb.0409020508.56b4c6bc@posting.google.com>, 1 fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso) writes:    = > As Decnet is becoming an almost extincted protocol,why not  - > HP opens or give it: to IEEE for example ?  A > May be it can be improved as an industrial automation protocol.   F As far as I know, HP still makes money from selling it, so why should  they give it away?  D I think confusing quantity and quality is one of the great evils of  modern society.   F Porsche sold just a fraction of the cars Renault did.  Shouldn't they  "open source" them?   E Porsche is by far the most profitable German automobile company, and  I make the best cars in the world.  (They are actually quite cheap, a much  = better car than, say, a Ferrari for a fraction of the price.)   I Isn't the specification already public?  Didn't non-DEC machines used to   use DECnet?    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 20:47:07 -0500 @ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> Subject: Re: Future of Decnet 6 Message-ID: <4137CD1B.88CB5240@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   Rodrigo Ventura wrote: > @ > >>>>> "Roy" == Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com> writes: > G >     Roy> The protocol specifications have always been completely open : >     Roy> and freely available, as far as I can remember.3 >     >> The same cannot be said about LAT, can it?  > " >     Roy> No.  What's your point? > @ > Thats that was unfortunate. I head somewhere LAT was much more0 > efficient than telnet in interactive sessions.  D Yes, L.A.T. could send data for multiple sessions at the same targetF address in a single packet. That was important in the days of terminalF servers. The TCP/IP (TELNET) equivalent would be to package data boundB for multiple sockets at the same destination address into a singleF packet. Even if there was room for that in the protocol specification,( not sure how useful that would be today.   > Moreover, IIRC, LAT # > announces it services to the net,   E Well, there is the concept of "broadcast" and "multicast" in IP. With E DNS, however, not sure how useful that would be except as you note...   & > it is possible to browse LAT servers > in a network.   F ..., or more correctly, "browse" (SHOW SERVICES) services available onF the local ethernet segment (since LAT is not routable, though "groups"/ did allow a certain degree of traffic control).   9 > Nothing of that is possible with telnet (unless you use ! > nmap or something like that...)    ...except as noted above.   A > If LAT specs were openly published, maybe it would be much more 
 > widespread.   C LAT has been reverse-engineered and is available in the open-source  world.  . > But now we have ssh, and all is different... > D >     >> I only recall reading about DECnet, and failing to find LAT  >     >> protocol specification. > H >     Roy> As expected.  LAT has absolutely *nothing* to do with DECnet. > H > LAT and DECnet have much in common, namely the fact of both have beingH > developed by DEC, and are used in VMS, Ultrix, Digital UNIX, and maybe > also Tru.   H LAT and DECnet are distant relatives, yes. Either can exist quite nicelyH without the other, or they can co-exist, provided you allow for DECnet's' tendency to do things to MAC addresses.   @ In fact, LAT and TCP/IP will co-exist, even if DECnet is absent.  G >     >> Regarding implementations of DECnet, the standard linux kernel 3 >     >> supports that protocol from some time now.  > 6 >     Roy> Yep, I know.  Adds credence to what I said.  G Um, well, not really in the kernel. It's an add-on, and probably uses a F kernel-loadable driver or some similar module, but I rather doubt thatC it is otherwise integrated into the Linux kernel very intimately (I  could be wrong about that...).  G > Yes it does. It was a misconception from you to assume my post was to E > remove credence from what you said! In fact, my post purpose was to  > add, not to subtract.   = Likewise, just to shed further light and perhaps clarify some  misconceptions.    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 22:17:15 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  Subject: Re: Future of Decnet + Message-ID: <4137D429.3BD7CBD@teksavvy.com>    re: LAT   J The "node announces a service" was extremely useful in a disaster tolerantH plan, enough for me to kill a telecom dept plan to use their switches to replace terminal servers:   K When the production node goes down and the backup node switches from a test L environment to production environment, the lat service definitions which areN broadcasted to all terminal servers can dynamically be updated very quickly inK such a way that used simply connect to their regular production service and < magically, they connect to the new (backup) production node.  + This is done at one layer (ethernet layer).   K With telnet, you need to play DNS tricks to point the host name to a new IP N adress (that of the backup node) AND/OR play with ARP tables to switch the MACM address of the production node's IP to the new ethernet destination. Doiable, K but not as clean and easy as with LAT because it is much harder to tell all N nodes in your lan to invalidate their ARP table and reload the new mac address for a specific IP.    L However, when the time comes to evaluate proposals, the added technbologicalJ value of VMS clusters, DECNET and LAT often is not given a sizeable enoughJ weight, and the lower price of the other platforms wins. In the end, it isM often still cheaper to use the less "clean" solution even if it isn't as easy R to make work because for less price, you can still achieve your corporate mission.  K There are very vew missions that call for a Porsche to get you from A to B, K and most will be perfectly happy with a LADA/YUGO which still gets you what L you really need even if you don't have all the nice gadgets that the Porsche
 gives you.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 22:55:30 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  Subject: Re: Future of Decnet , Message-ID: <4137DD1D.4FFE9DC3@teksavvy.com>   John Smith wrote: K > Ah yes, the relentless pursuit of mediocrity as opposed to the relentless M > pursuit of excellence. I've seen it all to often. Hence Windows, McDonalds, % > Republicans, soap operas, etc......    I disagree.   C A corporation defines its needs. It finds the cheapest product that R strategically fits its IT infrastructure and which meets the minimum requirements.  J If you need to provide a cash register functionality to some employee, youJ won't need a galaxy cluster on that desktop. An all mighty microvax II has+ sufficient processing power to do that job.   I If you need to proceess airline passenger's DNA in real time and match it M against a huge database of DNA samples takes at every birth around the world, 5 then you may need a cluster of fully loaded galaxies.   M Similarly, if the business case for a disaster recovery plan defines downtime I at $100 per hour, then you justify spending $250,000 for a plan that will 7 allow you to bring everything back up within 5 minutes.   J Just because great technology exists doesn't mean that all businesses willN choose it. And this is one big reason why VMS has dropped from being a leadingN contender to an "listed in the history books". It may be the best for disasterK recovery, but if 99% of potential customers' needs can bve anwered with the B lower quality Unix solutions, then VMS' higher price and VMS's badL "legacy/dying" image, as well as declining software base will push customersM to choose the inferior solution sicne the inferior solution still meets their  real needs.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 22:36:27 -0400# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>  Subject: Re: Future of Decnet , Message-ID: <FcmdnfnoBd00RarcRVn-og@igs.net>   JF Mezei wrote: 	 > re: LAT  > C > The "node announces a service" was extremely useful in a disaster 
 > tolerantG > plan, enough for me to kill a telecom dept plan to use their switches  > to > replace terminal servers:  > F > When the production node goes down and the backup node switches from? > a test environment to production environment, the lat service ? > definitions which are broadcasted to all terminal servers can D > dynamically be updated very quickly in such a way that used simplyA > connect to their regular production service and magically, they . > connect to the new (backup) production node. > - > This is done at one layer (ethernet layer).  > F > With telnet, you need to play DNS tricks to point the host name to aE > new IP adress (that of the backup node) AND/OR play with ARP tables B > to switch the MAC address of the production node's IP to the new  > ethernet destination. Doiable,D > but not as clean and easy as with LAT because it is much harder to
 > tell allD > nodes in your lan to invalidate their ARP table and reload the new  > mac address for a specific IP. >  > ? > However, when the time comes to evaluate proposals, the added C > technbological value of VMS clusters, DECNET and LAT often is not B > given a sizeable enough weight, and the lower price of the other# > platforms wins. In the end, it is G > often still cheaper to use the less "clean" solution even if it isn't 	 > as easy A > to make work because for less price, you can still achieve your  > corporate mission. > G > There are very vew missions that call for a Porsche to get you from A  > to B, D > and most will be perfectly happy with a LADA/YUGO which still gets
 > you whatF > you really need even if you don't have all the nice gadgets that the > Porsche gives you.    I Ah yes, the relentless pursuit of mediocrity as opposed to the relentless K pursuit of excellence. I've seen it all to often. Hence Windows, McDonalds, # Republicans, soap operas, etc......    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Sep 2004 23:51:51 -0500N- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)  Subject: Re: Future of Decnetg3 Message-ID: <JBQ6c7hxqYng@eisner.encompasserve.org>?  U In article <413741AD.4070101@MMaz.com>, "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> writes:E > Roy Omond wrote: >  >> Fabio Cardoso wrote:t >>
 >>> Dear SirsP >> >> >> (rather presumptuous ?) >>H >>> As Decnet is becoming an almost extincted protocol,why not HP opens F >>> or give it: to IEEE for example ? May be it can be improved as an # >>> industrial automation protocol.  >> >>< >> The DECnet protocol is completely open, unhindered by any3 >> "proprietariness", as you are evidently unaware.H >> > DECnet yes, LAT no...   D Not the BI bus either, but what does one have to do with the other ?   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Sep 2004 23:53:09 -0500g- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)  Subject: Re: Future of Decnetu3 Message-ID: <N3EIbE2Ywiwc@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  y In article <4137CD1B.88CB5240@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> writes:u > Rodrigo Ventura wrote: >> -A >> >>>>> "Roy" == Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com> writes:h >> SH >>     Roy> The protocol specifications have always been completely open; >>     Roy> and freely available, as far as I can remember.R4 >>     >> The same cannot be said about LAT, can it? >> s# >>     Roy> No.  What's your point?m >> :A >> Thats that was unfortunate. I head somewhere LAT was much moret1 >> efficient than telnet in interactive sessions.o > F > Yes, L.A.T. could send data for multiple sessions at the same targetH > address in a single packet. That was important in the days of terminalH > servers. The TCP/IP (TELNET) equivalent would be to package data boundD > for multiple sockets at the same destination address into a singleH > packet. Even if there was room for that in the protocol specification,* > not sure how useful that would be today.  B Depending on how you measure efficiency LAT is much less efficient- than CTERM (the SET HOST protocol in DECnet).F   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 18:49:04 GMTw& From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com>+ Subject: Re: Itanium: EFI... no fs0: devicei2 Message-ID: <AWJZc.9506$Pq5.1866@news.cpqcorp.net>    VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > OK...  > H > After several days of dicking with this box, I now have a FS0: device. > # > I start to install VMS and I get:A >  > Portion done: 0%...10%  > ...20%...30%...40%...50%...60% > V > %PCSI-E-WRITEERR, error writing DISK$OPENVMSIV8_1:[VMS$COMMON.][SYSLIB]STARLET.OLB;2' > -LBR-E-DUPKEY, duplicate key in index $ > %PCSI-E-OPFAILED, operation failedG > Terminating is strongly recommended.  Do you want to terminate? [YES]  >  > :( >   J You are doing a full install (INITIALIZE), not an upgrade (PRESERVE), yes?   --   John Reagan / HP Pascal/{A|I}MACRO for OpenVMS Project Leadern Hewlett-Packard Companya   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Sep 2004 11:04:13 -0700 & From: jordan@ccs4vms.com (Rich Jordan)) Subject: Re: OpenVMS running on HP 3000's = Message-ID: <cc5619f2.0409021004.7e720600@posting.google.com>t   "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> wrote in message news:<FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB3E0025@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>...c   >  > Re: "legacy" systems ..s >  > Rant mode on>a > D > I always get a kick out of those media types that like to refer toF > "legacy" systems as necessary evils that does not warrant additional > expenditures.c > J > Reality check - *all* platforms have legacy versions. That does not make  > the current versions "legacy". > H > Microsoft now calls NT4 servers "legacy". Sun calls Solaris V2 serversJ > "legacy". IBM calls old mainframe versions "legacy".  AIX and HP-UX have > versions they call "legacy". > J > So, does the fact that Microsoft calls Windows NT4 servers "legacy" mean? > that Microsoft current versions are "legacy?". Of course not.t > F > Fwiw, I like the term "existing" systems. It is a term that is a lotC > less politically volatile than walking into a Windows, Solaris oriI > OpenVMS shop and referring to their applications that are running theirr > entire business as "legacy". >  > Rant mode off> >  > :-)a > 
 > Regards, >  > Kerry Main > Senior Consultantm > HP Services Canada > Voice: 613-592-4660  > Fax: 613-591-4477i > Email: kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom . > (remove the DOT's and AT for email address)  > & > "OpenVMS has always had integrity ..  > Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .."  E NT4: Legacy.  MS no longer advertises or sells it and is aggressivelycE trying to move people off of it onto newer versions through proactives; contacts, advertising, coercive support modifications, etc.l  A Solaris V2: Legacy.  Sun no longer advertises or sells it, and isdF (presumably) trying to move people onto newer versions through variousF methods, likely including targetted advertising (letters and such, not commercial ads).  = VMS (any version): Publically considered legacy despite newer @ versions; few people know there are current versions.  HP barelyB advertises any version, tries to prompt movement to newer versionsB through coercive support modifications and minimal contacts but isE just as happy and very supportive of moving customers to any other HP.B platform / OS.  Runs on two platforms 'known to be dead' thanks to@ atrocious timing of announcements, and lack of response to trade1 stories slanted towards 'dead platform' rhetoric.a  C Legacy is just the default label that gets applied when folks don'ttE hear about your product and assume its not really there any more, andoE you don't do much of anything to tell them otherwise.  Application ofrD that label is mostly under the control of the vendor of the product,? and their visible/public commitment to the product in question.g   Rich   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 20:26:21 -0500f@ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>) Subject: Re: OpenVMS running on HP 3000'sc6 Message-ID: <4137C83D.38B38584@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   Rich Jordan wrote: >  > "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> wrote in message news:<FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB3E0025@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>...m >  > >h > > Re: "legacy" systems ..  > >s > > Rant mode on>v > >hF > > I always get a kick out of those media types that like to refer toH > > "legacy" systems as necessary evils that does not warrant additional > > expenditures.i > > L > > Reality check - *all* platforms have legacy versions. That does not make" > > the current versions "legacy". > >tJ > > Microsoft now calls NT4 servers "legacy". Sun calls Solaris V2 serversL > > "legacy". IBM calls old mainframe versions "legacy".  AIX and HP-UX have  > > versions they call "legacy". > >hL > > So, does the fact that Microsoft calls Windows NT4 servers "legacy" meanA > > that Microsoft current versions are "legacy?". Of course not.d > >rH > > Fwiw, I like the term "existing" systems. It is a term that is a lotE > > less politically volatile than walking into a Windows, Solaris oreK > > OpenVMS shop and referring to their applications that are running theire  > > entire business as "legacy". > >n > > Rant mode off> > >t > > :-)h > >o > > Regards, > >  > > Kerry Main > > Senior Consultant/ > > HP Services Canada > > Voice: 613-592-4660O > > Fax: 613-591-4477 ! > > Email: kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom!/ > > (remove the DOT's and AT for email address)G > >5( > > "OpenVMS has always had integrity .." > > Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .." > G > NT4: Legacy.  MS no longer advertises or sells it and is aggressively G > trying to move people off of it onto newer versions through proactiven= > contacts, advertising, coercive support modifications, etc.i > C > Solaris V2: Legacy.  Sun no longer advertises or sells it, and is H > (presumably) trying to move people onto newer versions through variousH > methods, likely including targetted advertising (letters and such, not > commercial ads). > ? > VMS (any version): Publically considered legacy despite newereB > versions; few people know there are current versions.  HP barelyD > advertises any version, tries to prompt movement to newer versionsD > through coercive support modifications and minimal contacts but isG > just as happy and very supportive of moving customers to any other HPtD > platform / OS.  Runs on two platforms 'known to be dead' thanks toB > atrocious timing of announcements, and lack of response to trade3 > stories slanted towards 'dead platform' rhetoric.m > E > Legacy is just the default label that gets applied when folks don't G > hear about your product and assume its not really there any more, and G > you don't do much of anything to tell them otherwise.  Application ofhF > that label is mostly under the control of the vendor of the product,A > and their visible/public commitment to the product in question.h >  > Rich  E Well, I agree with your assessment of VMS's condition, though I wouldcE argue that "legacy" is, perhaps, well characterized by an interaction C between Will Smith and Tommy Lee Jones in "MIB-II" where in Smith'sr@ character refers to K's former vehicle as "old and busted" while0 referring to his own issue as "the new hotness".  G Truly, based on my own experience with hp field management, it is up totD us entrepreneurs to "breathe life back into VMS". hp folks just haveH entirely lost "the spark". VMS needs folks like us who will work nights,D weekends, days on end to win a sale rather than assuming an attitudeF roughly similar to, "if the customer doesn't come crawling to us, f--- 'em!".  H (Yes, I'm back to posting from my former W/95 machine, at least briefly.F Now "up"graded to W/98 (after four days of near constant struggle), it9 is VASTLY *LESS* stable than was W/95-OSR2, even with thesF latest-and-greates Interhose Exploder V6 SP1. Will probably go back toD the laptop and scrap this in favor of a Novell SuSE install sometime this fall.)    -- g David J. Dachteral dba DJE Systems3 http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/6   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 10:46:46 -0700# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>i Subject: Posting etiquette9 Message-ID: <NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECIKEOKDLAA.tom@kednos.com>>  8 Is it now acceptable to post text/html messages?  If so,0 I guess I need to add an exclusion to my filter.  ;  2-SEP-2004 10:23:28.77:  MX SMTP server: rejected message z> from <Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com> sent by [198.151.12.104] B due to RFC822 header rule [Content-Type: text/html*] [rule id 191] --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).? Version: 6.0.735 / Virus Database: 489 - Release Date: 8/6/2004a   ------------------------------   Date: 02 Sep 2004 18:59:15 GMT+ From: "Doc." <doc.cypher@openvms-rocks.com>l Subject: Re: Posting etiquette7 Message-ID: <Xns9558D68D6A990dcovmsrox@212.100.160.123>E  $ %NEWS-I-NEWMSG, Tom Linden wrote in 0 news:NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECIKEOKDLAA.tom@kednos.com  : > Is it now acceptable to post text/html messages?  If so,2 > I guess I need to add an exclusion to my filter. > = >  2-SEP-2004 10:23:28.77:  MX SMTP server: rejected message d@ > from <Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com> sent by [198.151.12.104] D > due to RFC822 header rule [Content-Type: text/html*] [rule id 191]  F Do you have a message ID on that?  On the Usenet side of the Info-Vax J gateway it looks like original message IDs are preserved.  If they are as I well on stuff going the other way, I'd guess you may have blocked a spam AK with the message ID <ch7k0j$4gk2227@imsp212.netvigator.com>.  On my server u4 it preceded your post by a little over half an hour.  B I can't remember the last time I saw a legitimate HTML posting in C comp.os.vms, and there are people quick to point out that it isn't o+ appropriate so I doubt you'd miss anything.c     Doc. -- oG OpenVMS:     Eight out of ten hackers prefer *other* operating systems.eG http://www.openvms-rocks.com    Deathrow Public-Access OpenVMS Cluster.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 14:52:30 -0400a  From: nobody <nobody@nobody.org> Subject: Re: Posting etiquette* Message-ID: <41376BE7.C99A9A75@nobody.org>   Tom Linden wrote:d > : > Is it now acceptable to post text/html messages?  If so,2 > I guess I need to add an exclusion to my filter. > < >  2-SEP-2004 10:23:28.77:  MX SMTP server: rejected message? > from <Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com> sent by [198.151.12.104]eD > due to RFC822 header rule [Content-Type: text/html*] [rule id 191]  K No, it is not acceptable. There have been a few spams lately, and there arenL always some users who are forced to use windows and don't quite realise they! are sending spam/html by default.s   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 18:22:18 GMTr" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: reset rx2600l0 Message-ID: <00A37480.BC73DBD8@SendSpamHere.ORG>  9 Is there a way to reset the rx2600 to factory defaults???a  H I tried to boot up the install that said it was faulted (see prior post)( and now I cannot talk at all to the box.   -- e< http://www.ProvN.com  for the *best* OpenVMS system security=                       solutions that others only claim to be.M -- n, Cyber-Terrorism (si'-ber tayr'-or-iz-em) n.:M   The release of, the sale of, or the use of any Micro$oft software product! s --  K VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMu   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 14:51:51 -0400H, From: Forrest Kenney <Forrest.Kenney@hp.com> Subject: Re: reset rx2600o& Message-ID: <41376BC7.15569CD9@hp.com>  F     This is may be an easy answer or a hard one.  First which console F are you using.  The BMC or the MP console, what console was the systemH set to default to.  Note that even if it was set to the BMC and you are E using the MP.  The MP console will snoop the I/O stream until VMS is i booted.h  E 1) Getting the system attention if you have the MP console is fairly iE    simple.  Type a ctrl-B if you are logged in and that will get you oH    back to the MP console prompt.  Then enter CM <cr> at the next prompt2    enter rs -nc <cr>.  This will reset the system.  H 2) At the BMC console enter ESC( <cr> which will get you the cli> promptG    then enter rs <cr> which will reset the system then an ESC) <cr> to      get back to the console.d  E 3) If the MP needs to me reset from the CM mode enter the command XD.   D    But without know what console or what is hung these are starting H points.  If all else fails you can hard reset the MP console by pressingA the MP reset button on the back of the box.  You can crash VMS byw pressing- the button labled TOC on the back of the box.n     Forrest Kenney   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 21:23:25 +02000" From: labadie <labadie_g@decus.fr> Subject: Re: Single Signon2 Message-ID: <ch7s1j$qpq$1@news-reader4.wanadoo.fr>   Barry Treahy, Jr. a crit :sH > Just curious how many folks here have been successful in implementing E > single signon in a hetro environment with VMS, Windows Server, and lB > Linux/Unix systems, and at what type of cost for the supporting I > framework...  If discussing off-list is preferred, please feel free to h > contact me directly... >  >  > BarryA > I I used AUA (Advanced User Administration or something like that), worked (; fine with Vms, Nt and Unix (TRU64 I think), it was in 1996.I  E it was necessary to do a good doc, because all the commands were not  A very user-friendly, but when correctly applied, I had no problem.     You had other products in mind ?   regards    gerard   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 16:08:06 -0700i+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com>t Subject: Re: Single Signon' Message-ID: <4137A7D6.1070307@MMaz.com>S   labadie wrote:   > Barry Treahy, Jr. a =E9crit :t >cK >> Just curious how many folks here have been successful in implementing=20 H >> single signon in a hetro environment with VMS, Windows Server, and=20E >> Linux/Unix systems, and at what type of cost for the supporting=20nI >> framework...  If discussing off-list is preferred, please feel free=20h >> to contact me directly... >uF > I used AUA (Advanced User Administration or something like that),=20D > worked fine with Vms, Nt and Unix (TRU64 I think), it was in 1996. > I > it was necessary to do a good doc, because all the commands were not=20oC > very user-friendly, but when correctly applied, I had no problem.  >h" > You had other products in mind ? >yJ I had nothing specific in mind, but rather interested in finding out if=20I others had tackled this, with any success, at what cost, and what type=20:J of products were used to achieve that goal.  As for AUA, never heard of=20K it/then and neither Google nor Dogpile seem to have a 'quick hit' on any=20u* of your suggested key words, but thanks...     Barry-   --=20-  > Barry Treahy, Jr                       E-mail: Treahy@MMaz.com> Midwest Microwave                          Phone: 480/314-1320> Vice President & CIO                         FAX: 480/661-7028                       =20    ------------------------------  * Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 21:08:39 +0000 (UTC)* From: bleau@UMTOF.UMD.EDU (Lawrence Bleau)3 Subject: Re: SMTP: stray messages left in directorym0 Message-ID: <ch824n$8h5$1@grapevine.wam.umd.edu>  \ In article <41367D52.99BD41C1@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:- >TCPIP Services, SMTO  5.3 ECO 2, VAX VMS 7.2o > E >I have found that for some reason, some messages, usually those withFK >attachements, just fail to be delivered, usually outbound from my vax, and M >just stay as stray files in the TCPIP$SMTP_COMMON: directory with no warningmQ >or error messages being sent, so the sender assumes the messages have been sent.C  C I get this happenning to me, too.  While there is no warning to tehrE sending user, the mail log file TCPIP$SMTP_LOGFILE.LOG should contain4@ an entry that described processing this file and if there was anF error.  Note: There is a separate TCPIP$SMTP_LOGFILE.LOG file for each mail queue, so check them all.  @ The mail queues handle SMTP message delivery, be it on the local? system or outgoing messages.  There is a separate mechanism for0  handling incoming SMTP messages.  > Also, if the message control file just gets left there and notB processed and the message is an incoming one, it could be that theC receiving program (TCPIP$SMTP_RECEIVER) that built the control file A encountered an error and didn't queue the control file at all, inu? which case there'd be no entry in the log file mentioned above.   D For incoming smtp messages, check the date/time of the control file,E then compare that against the TCPIP$SMTP_RECV_RUN.LOG;* date/times tonF find the one that describes the session, and check it for errors.  ForD messages in the mail queue to be delieverd, the control file name is( in the log file, making it easy to find.  K >ANALYZE MAIL does tell me about some stray files with no queue entries bute$ >doesn't do anything to those files.  ! Try   $ TCPIP ANALYZE MAIL/REPAIR0  B This will find the "lost" control file anem put them back into theE mail queue.  They may be placed in a "holding" state, though; confirm@$ this with a TCPIP SHOW MAIL command.  C Also, be on the lookout for corrupt control files or wierd messagesnE that cause your mail system to crash; this has happened here.  If youMC just blindly do the repair operation, it'll requeue the bad controliF file and crash the mail system again, so check the log file as to what	 happened.e   Lawrence Bleau University of Maryland" Physics Dept., Space Physics Group 301-405-6223 bleau@umtof.umd.eduS   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 17:09:51 -0400# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>N? Subject: Sun, er....HP not selling enough Itanics to help Intel , Message-ID: <15-dnSCXVcCAEarcRVn-gA@igs.net>  = http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB109414496764408126,00.html        Intel Cuts Revenue Range,  Blames Soft Demand for Chips  ) A WALL STREET JOURNAL ONLINE NEWS ROUNDUP  September 2, 2004 4:59 p.m.G  G Intel Corp. lowered its forecasted revenue range and ratcheted down itsTJ margin expectations, citing weakness in *its* core computer-chip business.   <snip about quarterly revenue>      L ....Intel shares tumbled 7.4% to $19.84 in after-hours trading, according to
 the INET ECN.e  C ....its third-quarter gross margin percentage is now expected to beF= approximately 58%, down from its previous expectation of 60%.l   .....n  I Intel blamed the lower views on disappointing world-wide demand for *its*iL core microprocessor products, which act as the brains in personal computers.K The company also said revenue in its communications business was lower thaniH anticipated primarily due to weak growth in flash-memory shipments. SuchJ chips are used in cellphones and other portable devices.    [funny...I seeH more and more devices like this all the time on the street...I guess theL manufacturers of these devices are buying flash memory from other providers]  H When Intel reported second-quarter results in July, the company issued aK surprise warning about an expected decline in profit margins for the coming-4 months. It cited manufacturing and inventory issues.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 Sep 2004 00:00:21 +0000 - From: Garry <asdfasdfadsf@asdfasdfasdfre.com>.# Subject: Supported Itanium hardwareI- Message-ID: <ch88kn$hh9$1@news.netkonect.net>a   Hi, G 	Is there a definitive list of supported Itanium hardware for OpenVMS? -E i.e. I know the i2000 was used to boot OpenVMS during the porting to iH Itanium, but is it now a fully supported box for running the latest and  greatest OpenVMS versions?   Cheers   Garrya   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 21:43:40 -0400 2 From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com>' Subject: Re: Supported Itanium hardware . Message-ID: <4137940C.25839.1D8BFE7@localhost>  # On 3 Sep 2004 at 0:00, Garry wrote: H >  Is there a definitive list of supported Itanium hardware for OpenVMS?  0 Last I heard, it was rx1600, rx2600, and rx4400.  F > i.e. I know the i2000 was used to boot OpenVMS during the porting toE > Itanium, but is it now a fully supported box for running the latest   > and greatest OpenVMS versions?  B Nope.  For one thing, it was the original Itanium processor.  You $ need at least Itanium 2 to boot VMS.  
 --Stan Quayleo Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------- Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363t3 8572 North Spring Ct., Pickerington, OH  43147  USAa0 stan-at-stanq-dot-com       http://www.stanq.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 23:46:54 -0400e- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 6 Subject: VMS website problem: DCPS release notes blank, Message-ID: <4137E927.A9D4C262@teksavvy.com>   page:rK > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/732final/dcps_rn/DCPS023_RELEASE_NOTES.htmls  N which should contain the DCPS release notes in html format yields a blank pageI with only the HP logos at the top. Looking at the source reveals a ton ofa javascript but no contents.i   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 16:31:08 -0400# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> C Subject: Where is the mainstream VMS DT and Lights-Out advertising?0, Message-ID: <2MCdnUy0EfuWHqrcRVn-vw@igs.net>  L http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&e=1&u=/ap/20040902/ap_on_re_us/h urricane_frances_florida    ( More Than Million Told to Flee Hurricane   By TIM REYNOLDS, Associated Press Writero  I PORT ST. LUCIE, Fla. - More than a million people threatened by HurricaneeL Frances were told to clear out Thursday, and residents scrambled to board upL homes and stock up on water ahead of what could be Florida's mightiest storm in a decade.   ....   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 22:10:51 -05000 From: Kevin Monceaux <OwnedByDogs@grandecom.net>$ Subject: Yet Another Multia Question2 Message-ID: <20040903031051.GA30687@grandecom.net>   VMS Enthusiasts,  K I've seen the recent Multia thread and realize they are not the best choiceaK for Alpha VMS.  However I have recently acquired a Multia and have no other J Alphas so I would like to attempt to install Alpha VMS on it.  I currentlyK only have one box running VMS - a VAXStation 3100/M76.  Sadly the Linux andtC Windoze boxes currently outnumber the VMS boxes on my home network.n  L My main question is which versions of VMS can be installed on a Multia.  TheK information I've found on the net indicates that a boot floppy is needed to G install VMS.  I've found boot flooppy images for VMS 7.1-2 and 7.2.  IsnD there a boot floppy image available for the version of VMS currentlyG shipping on the hobbyist kit(7.3-1) or do I need to locate some install J media for version 7.1-2 or 7.2?  Currently all the VMS stuff I have is for/ VAX.  I don't have any Alpha related stuff yet.w     Kevinp http://www.RawFedDogs.net    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.488 ************************