1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 07 Sep 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 497       Contents:- Canada's Equitable Life begins moving off VMS 1 RE: Canada's Equitable Life begins moving off VMS 1 Re: Canada's Equitable Life begins moving off VMS 1 Re: cluster member crashes during boot (again...) 1 Re: cluster member crashes during boot (again...) 1 Re: cluster member crashes during boot (again...) 1 Re: cluster member crashes during boot (again...)  Re: cluster problems (again) Re: cluster tunning  DDCMP ! DEC VET/Q-Vet current replacement % Re: DEC VET/Q-Vet current replacement  Re: Definition for SOR$GK_* ?  Re: EV8 advertised by accident Re: Future of Decnet Re: Future of Decnet" Re: Itanium: EFI... no fs0: device Re: Kerry who?# Re: Marketing of tech into campuses # Re: Marketing of tech into campuses # Re: Marketing of tech into campuses # Re: Marketing of tech into campuses # RE: Marketing of tech into campuses  Re: Open Motif for VMS Problem with LPD queue Re: Problem with LPD queue Re: Supported Itanium hardware Virus writers and VMS  Re: VMS marketing opportunity  Re: VMS marketing opportunity  Re: VMS marketing opportunity  why mainframes are still used? why mainframes are still used?" Re: why mainframes are still used?" Re: why mainframes are still used?" Re: why mainframes are still used?" Re: why mainframes are still used?" Re: why mainframes are still used?" Re: why mainframes are still used?" Re: why mainframes are still used?1 Re: [VMS V7.3-2] PCSI INSTALL /SAVE_RECOVERY_DATA 1 Re: [VMS V7.3-2] PCSI INSTALL /SAVE_RECOVERY_DATA   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 11:26:45 -04005 From: "rob kas" <droprob@nospam-paychoice.com-nospam> 6 Subject: Canada's Equitable Life begins moving off VMS0 Message-ID: <10jrkplte11rpba@corp.supernews.com>   http://www.computerweekly.com/articles/article.asp?liArticleID=133153&liArticleTypeID=1&liCategoryID=1&liChannelID=9&liFlavourID=1&sSearch=&nPage=1    ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 08:41:37 -0700# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> : Subject: RE: Canada's Equitable Life begins moving off VMS9 Message-ID: <NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECIIECEDMAA.tom@kednos.com>   3  "The hardware we're on has been deemed obsolete,"    0 Is that Alpha or VAX he is referring to?  Notice1 use of passive voice, lends an air of finality to  the statement.       < -----Original Message-----< < From: rob kas [mailto:droprob@nospam-paychoice.com-nospam]+ < Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2004 8:27 AM  < To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 8 < Subject: Canada's Equitable Life begins moving off VMS <  < D < http://www.computerweekly.com/articles/article.asp?liArticleID=133D < 153&liArticleTypeID=1&liCategoryID=1&liChannelID=9&liFlavourID=1&s < Search=&nPage=1  <  <  < --- ( < Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.< < Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).B < Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 8/19/2004 <  --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 8/19/2004   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 12:18:05 -04005 From: "rob kas" <droprob@nospam-paychoice.com-nospam> : Subject: Re: Canada's Equitable Life begins moving off VMS0 Message-ID: <10jrnpukgo3h0b2@corp.supernews.com>  / "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message  3 news:NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECIIECEDMAA.tom@kednos.com... 3 > "The hardware we're on has been deemed obsolete,"  > 2 > Is that Alpha or VAX he is referring to?  Notice3 > use of passive voice, lends an air of finality to  > the statement. >       Or this Gem  G    "As for the software, to move ahead we'd have to undergo some major  E development. We're further ahead to move to a new platform entirely."                                 Rob   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2004 17:31:22 +0100 + From: Rodrigo Ventura <yoda@isr.ist.utl.pt> : Subject: Re: cluster member crashes during boot (again...)) Message-ID: <m3656qm46d.fsf@pixie.isrnet>   L >>>>> "Alex" == Alex Daniels <AlexNOSPAMTHANKSDaniels@themail.co.uk> writes:  E     Alex> You mentioned you have no remote console access, so when it E     Alex> crashes press HOLD if you have a VMS keyboard, or otherwise ?     Alex> CTRL/S, then transcribe and post the two lines of the <     Alex> 'verbose output' preceding the start of the crash.  C I noticed a MOP option in the workstation "firmware console" (is it 2 called SRM?), but I was unable to get the SET HOST= /MOP/ADDRESS=xx-yy-zz-ww-xx-yy command working... (maybe some  parameter missing?)   F     Alex> Also go into SYSGEN on the two booted nodes, that are in the+     Alex> cluster and post the output of...   
 shadowing = 0  shadow_sys_unit = 0  shadow_sys_disk = 0  shadow_max_unit = 500   7 (in all nodes, including the third one in SYSBOOT mode)   C     Alex> Then boot the third one (that is crashing) to SYSBOOT and >     Alex> again post the output of the above, along with "showE     Alex> vaxcluster", "show niscs_load_pea0". Then do 'show scsnode' D     Alex> and check it's not the nodename of one of the other boxes.   vaxcluster = 2 niscs_load_pea0 = 1    (typos may abound)  $ SYSINIT-I-INIT, pagefile initialized$ SYSINIT-I-INIT, swapfile initialized$ SYSINIT-I-INIT, initializing the XQP  6 ***** XFC-W-MemmgtInit Misconfiguration detected *****   [lots of bla-bla-bla...]  S VMSCluster-I-MSCPCONN, Connected to the MSCP server for the system disk, node XPTO1    [more bla-bla-bla...]   P VMSCluster-I-PORT_MCAST, SCS transport multicast address XPTO3 xx-yy-zz-ww-xx-yy8 BUGCHECK-I-CONSOPEN, channel oppened, channel #=00000000, ??? - Accessing system disk via ??? bot path  I [lots of register dump, stack dump, and the dots that denote memory dump]    and that's all...   > If this is not very helpful, I can try to get a linux box withF minicom, connected to the serial port, and capture the output. But I'mC afraid I'm out of connector adapters... I guess I have one from the F DEC serial console weird connector to a DB25, but maybe the PCs nearby are all DB9...  F Getting SET HOST to work with MOP would probably be more efficient. Is5 it possible to capture the SET HOST output to a file?    Cheers,    Rodrigo    --    : *** Rodrigo Martins de Matos Ventura <yoda@isr.ist.utl.pt>. ***  Web page: http://www.isr.ist.utl.pt/~yoda0 ***   Teaching Assistant and PhD Student at ISR:7 ***    Instituto de Sistemas e Robotica, Polo de Lisboa 4 ***     Instituto Superior Tecnico, Lisboa, PORTUGALH *** PGP fingerprint = 0119 AD13 9EEE 264A 3F10  31D3 89B3 C6C4 60C6 4585   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2004 23:13:03 +0800 , From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>: Subject: Re: cluster member crashes during boot (again...)0 Message-ID: <87r7pedse8.fsf@k9.prep.synonet.com>  0 huber@NOBODY-mppmu.mpg.de (Joseph Huber) writes:  Y > In article <m3brgjibzy.fsf@pixie.isrnet>, Rodrigo Ventura <yoda@isr.ist.utl.pt> writes:   E >> The idea was to provide the booting node with some page/swap space E >> in order to prevent it from running out of memory. But after boot, $ >> it can solely use the local disk.   E >> In case of not being possible to remove one file from swap/paging, @ >> is it possible to assign priorities? For instance, local disk; >> page/swap files having higher priority than remote ones.    D >> (curiously in linux it is fairly easy to do either operation: youC >> can remove/add swap partitions/files at will with the swapon and @ >> swapoff commands, and you can assign priorities with the same >> commands)  C > I don't know if ever in the early boot-phase a pagefile is needed C > (somebody proves me wrong ?).  Anyhow, once a file is in use, You & > can't remove it in a running system.  F Early in the system init phases the `shell' processes are set up, 3 ofE them I think for Alpha, and that could trigger exec paging in a small E memory system. The standard swap and page file should be set up while & still under the primative file system.  E >> Hum, I read somewhere that the minimum memory to run VMS was about F >> 4MB, which I found quite amazing -- in fact I have here a couple ofD >> old VAXstations (3100 and 2000) which I was considering to add toB >> the cluster, at the end. But since I can't get all those alphas2 >> running, I'm not worried with that right now...  C > This true for Vaxen (and VMS prior to 6.0), but certainly not for F > Alphas, and it never was.  I don't have the SPD for VMS 7.3-2 ready,/ > but I'm sure it needs something beyond 32MB .   ' 64 MB for an Alpha is tight, but works.    --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2004 17:44:40 +0100 + From: Rodrigo Ventura <yoda@isr.ist.utl.pt> : Subject: Re: cluster member crashes during boot (again...)) Message-ID: <m31xhem3k7.fsf@pixie.isrnet>   F Just one wierd thing: looking at the master node, in the [SYSn.SYSEXE]E directory, the revision date of SYSDUMP.DMP is 6-SEP-2004 14:45:51.39 B (what the "(2)" after that means?), while I booted it a bit beforeA now, which is 7-SEP-2004 16:44:06 (according to the master node).    Cheers,    Rodrigo    --    : *** Rodrigo Martins de Matos Ventura <yoda@isr.ist.utl.pt>. ***  Web page: http://www.isr.ist.utl.pt/~yoda0 ***   Teaching Assistant and PhD Student at ISR:7 ***    Instituto de Sistemas e Robotica, Polo de Lisboa 4 ***     Instituto Superior Tecnico, Lisboa, PORTUGALH *** PGP fingerprint = 0119 AD13 9EEE 264A 3F10  31D3 89B3 C6C4 60C6 4585   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Sep 2004 12:17:23 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) : Subject: Re: cluster member crashes during boot (again...)3 Message-ID: <MHp$rs0ifMbO@eisner.encompasserve.org>   W In article <m31xhem3k7.fsf@pixie.isrnet>, Rodrigo Ventura <yoda@isr.ist.utl.pt> writes:  > H > Just one wierd thing: looking at the master node, in the [SYSn.SYSEXE]G > directory, the revision date of SYSDUMP.DMP is 6-SEP-2004 14:45:51.39 D > (what the "(2)" after that means?), while I booted it a bit beforeC > now, which is 7-SEP-2004 16:44:06 (according to the master node).  >   G    (2) means the file has undergone the open-for-write then close cycle G    twice.  Creating the file counts as once.  Actual writes do not need     to have occured.     F    Generally creating and extending the dump, page, and/or swap files B    will cause this.  This will also cause the revision date to be G    updated.  Normal access by VMS to dump, page, and swap files do not  A    cause this as they do not use the normal open/close mechanism.   H    By comparison, my one of pagefile revisions is 6-OCT-2003 08:12:35.59J    (39), even though the system has encountered power failure/reboot once F    or twice since then.  Yes, I probably really have extended that one    38 or so times.        ------------------------------   Date: 7 Sep 2004 08:09:08 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) % Subject: Re: cluster problems (again) 3 Message-ID: <MeEaaLui19AB@eisner.encompasserve.org>   W In article <m3llfr5isj.fsf@pixie.isrnet>, Rodrigo Ventura <yoda@isr.ist.utl.pt> writes:  > G > After re-installing everything I ran into the same problem as before: F > when adding a third node to the cluster, it fails booting, aparently$ > because lack of pagefile/swapfile. > E > I've been trying to trackdown the cause, but I can't find where the A > pagefile/swapfiles are setup during startup. I can't find it in 6 > neither lanacp database, nor sysboot parameters, norH > systartup_vms.com, and there is no specific startup for that node. So,C > it is a mistery to me how one of the nodes works with the correct 
 > pagefile...   A    Generally satellites use sys$system:satellite_page.com.  Other E    systems use sys$manager:sypagswpfiles.com.  All systems will first F    look for sys$system:pagefile.sys and sys$system:swapfile.sys, so be5    sure these are in sys$specific and not sys$common.    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Sep 2004 08:04:27 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: cluster tunning3 Message-ID: <oV8TilFxKzdE@eisner.encompasserve.org>   W In article <m3hdqf5h8u.fsf@pixie.isrnet>, Rodrigo Ventura <yoda@isr.ist.utl.pt> writes: M >>>>>> "Bob" == Bob Koehler <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> writes:  > F >     Bob>    IIRC all nodes must boot from the same physical disk andH >     Bob> then add other memebers to the system disk shadow set.  But IE >     Bob> haven't used shadow in a long time and this limitation may  >     Bob> have been removed.  > C > If all member nodes boot from the same physical disk, how can one B > attain redundancy of the master node? Is it possible to have the= > cluster up and running, regardless of what node/disk fails?   L    If the first physical disk fails after boot, then everything keeps going.G    IIRC the problem is that every system must initially access just one L    physical disk to load VMS, then add the other shadow members during boot.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2004 06:47:41 -0400 ' From: John Sauter <J_Sauter@Empire.Net>  Subject: DDCMP8 Message-ID: <0l3rj0h43vlp8saokte1higons87rto30n@4ax.com>   David J Dachtera wrote:   : DDCMP is simply DECnet over a serial line, synchronous or F asynchronous.  Think point-to-point links, much the way that Multinet  supports DECnet-IV over TCP/IP.    John Sauter responded:  B DDCMP is not DECnet over a serial line.  It is just a protocol forB improving the error characteristics of a communication link, usingD checksums, retries, and restart signaling.  It is a layer 2 protocol< (if I am remembering the layer numbers correctly) and can be: used with any higher-level protocol.  Think of it as DEC's< alternative to HDLC, designed at a time when the limitations6 of the PDP-8's communications hardware were important.  6 I was the junior member of the committee that designed4 DDCMP.  When the committee made a tentative decision= about some aspect of the protocol, it was my job to implement = it before the next meeting, so we could see the consequences. : For my test bed I used a PDP-11/40, a couple of very heavy1 9600 bps modems, and some hardware to degrade the 7 connection between them.  When data was flowing I would 4 slowly degrade the link between the modems and watch the performance.    1 It was because of my feedback that the DDCMP data 2 message has two CRCs.  WIth just a CRC at the end,8 you could pick a bit in the length field, and that would8 force the receiver to absorb lots of data before getting2 a bad CRC and eventually recovering.  By putting a- second CRC after the header we caught the bad # length before having to believe it.   / One of the design goals of DDCMP was to be able 0 to run a link through a geosynchronous satellite- at 1,000,000 bits per second, with reasonable 0 average message lengths, at full speed.  That is, why the message number field is 8 bits wide.%     John Sauter (J_Sauter@Empire.Net)    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Sep 2004 03:27:59 -0700 * From: binarydinosaurs@hotmail.com (Witchy)* Subject: DEC VET/Q-Vet current replacement= Message-ID: <26602a98.0409070227.49326d0d@posting.google.com>   	 Hi folks,   E Does anyone know what the current flavour of Alpha exerciser tool is? 9 Got a Personal Workstation here with an apparent fault of / 'intermittent freezing' so I want to thrash it.   @ Can't find anything on the 6.8 firmware site, and the only otherD firmware CDs I've got here are 5.9 which contains QVET for the GS320 :-\    TIA!   Cheers  
 Adrian/Witchy    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2004 15:17:12 GMT 4 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>. Subject: Re: DEC VET/Q-Vet current replacement2 Message-ID: <Yhk%c.9826$eY2.9223@news.cpqcorp.net>  I Install QVET on VMS and run it.  It is one of our qual tools (it's not HW H dependent).  Pull down the script "Phase 1 Eng Qual" and let it rip.  ItK will beat the crap out of the system.  I would recommend that you save your 5 sysgen parameters first, as QVET will muck with them.     7 "Witchy" <binarydinosaurs@hotmail.com> wrote in message 7 news:26602a98.0409070227.49326d0d@posting.google.com...  > Hi folks,  > G > Does anyone know what the current flavour of Alpha exerciser tool is? ; > Got a Personal Workstation here with an apparent fault of 1 > 'intermittent freezing' so I want to thrash it.  > B > Can't find anything on the 6.8 firmware site, and the only otherF > firmware CDs I've got here are 5.9 which contains QVET for the GS320 > :-\  >  > TIA! >  > Cheers >  > Adrian/Witchy    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Sep 2004 07:59:21 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) & Subject: Re: Definition for SOR$GK_* ?3 Message-ID: <YMXwUP6+5OS9@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ] In article <chabd1$lc8$1@reader1.panix.com>, Dale Dellutri <ddelQQQlutr@panQQQix.com> writes: C > I'm trying to write a FORTRAN program which uses the SOR$ROUTINES B > (Sort/Merge Utility routines).  According to the OpenVMS Utility< > Routines Manual, Sort/Merge Routines section, when callingD > SOR$BEGIN_SORT, one needs to specify the sort process by passing a > byte containing one of:  >  >   SOR$GK_RECORD (record sort)  >   SOR$GK_TAG (tag sort) ! >   SOR$GK_ADDRESS (address sort)  >   SOR$GK_INDEX (index sort)  > A > I specifically need SOR$GK_RECORD.  However, I can't find this  A > definition anywhere.  It is not in $SORDEF or SOR$ROUTINES (in  H > SYS$LIBRARY:FORSYSDEF.TLB), nor any of the other TLB's in SYS$LIBRARY.  %    You can let the linker pick it up:       EXTERNAL SOR$GK_RECORD   &    ...  SOR$BEGIN_SOIRT(SOR$GK_RECORD)          ------------------------------   Date: 7 Sep 2004 08:17:06 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) ' Subject: Re: EV8 advertised by accident 3 Message-ID: <PKlHQrqLsFC3@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <41391B2B.D530D23D@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:  O > Eventually, Carly will unleash Alpha EV8 which will kill off Intel, and Carly G > will then rule the CPU industry and also control its competitor Dell.   <    So SRI is also in on this, writing the secret Charon-386?   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Sep 2004 08:14:16 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: Future of Decnet 3 Message-ID: <oQwMcQ4mu2UP@eisner.encompasserve.org>   n In article <f30679fb.0409060605.165635ba@posting.google.com>, fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso) writes: > @ > May be its a good solution in case of lack of Decnet Routers.' > Does it support DDCMP for instance ?    G    Just what hardware to you expect to support both Linux and DDCMP on? G    I haven't seen a DDCMP board since UNIBUS days, but I thnk there was C    a Qbus module that would do it.  Do you know of any Qbus systems     supported by Linux?      Or are you thinking asynch?   ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 17:14:38 +0000 (UTC)7 From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)  Subject: Re: Future of Decnet ( Message-ID: <chkq9u$asp$1@pcls4.std.com>  / Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:   c >In article <chgj8g$7nq$1@pcls4.std.com>, moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) writes:  >>  M >> Not just the local echo is "smart".  Being able to handle single character K >> reads as well as bursts of data was harder than it looks on VMS.  I once M >> had to write software that captured and processed output of another device K >> connected to a serial line of a Microvax II.  The easiest way to capture L >> such data was 1 character $QIO reads, right?  Yes - except a MV2 couldn'tK >> keep up at 9600 baud (~960 QIOs per second).  Had to implement a bizarre L >> hodgepodge where a single character read would be followed by a series ofJ >> large reads with zero timeout, and such a read getting zero characters I >> would be followed by a 1 character (no timeout) read, repeat sequence. K >> CTERM, on the other hand can handle large data bursts on a microvax just K >> fine with little cpu overhead.  I still don't know exactly what trick it  >> uses.  . >CTERM is inside the driver (on the host end).  , oops, I meant rtpad.exe where I wrote cterm. --   -Mike    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2004 14:05:30 GMT 4 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>+ Subject: Re: Itanium: EFI... no fs0: device 2 Message-ID: <Kej%c.9809$IR2.1547@news.cpqcorp.net>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message& news:4138B82C.CD17C4BC@teksavvy.com... > Fred Kleinsorge wrote:L > > Repeat after me...  this is NOT a "Windows" issue.  Replace Windows with2 > > Linux, or HP-UX and you have the *same* issue. > H > Except malicious viri/trojan/worms are most often targetted at Windows because & > it is such an easy target to infect. >   H Let's see.  Down at about 876 on my threat list is a Windows system thatF also has direct access to a VMS system disk, with a virus that has anyJ chance of doing something to the VMS disk that will do anything other than render it unusable.   G If you are paranoid about Windows being able to touch a VMS disk - then = don't wire them up that way - regardless of the architecture.   J > > Lets say, attached SCSI...  what *we* see is a device controller.  How do we J > > see that?  We walk the PCI bus.  The firmware (in the IA64 case) tells usH > > where to find the PCI bus.  SYSMAN IO AUTO invokes an image (when it seesF > > the port driver for the controller loaded) that POLLS the SCSI bus looking 
 > > for LUNs.  > J > OK thanks. I was under the impression that the ROM did that trick, since evenL > on a microvax, you can do a >>> SHOW DEVICE and it will list the available
 > devices. >   L It does the same thing.  SCSI (unlike, say FC) is fairly simple.  FC is evenI *more* convoluted, in that the UUID (or whatever the terminology is) that J VMS uses by default to get a useable name is an optional item and needs toF be programmed into the FC device and the console and VMS have to do an3 intricate dance (on Alpha) to derive the same name.   L > > Yes, except the "primitive ROM" should read "EFI".  Which "peeks" at theG > > disk to find the partition information, and locates EFI partitions,  which it1 > > can then use to find boot loaders for the OS.  >   G IPF firmware consists of SAL (system level abstraction), PAL (processor D level abstraction) and EFI (extensible firmware interface).  On mostF hardware, a very "primitive ROM" exists that unpacks the main firmwareI image(s) when the system is powered up - which is why the use of the term  "primitive ROM" is loaded.  G EFI is the firmware program (flash ROM resident) that is what you would L consider the main frrmware image.  It is for all intents, a small OS.  It isK EFI that "peeks" at the disks.  It is EFI that can load code from the disks C and execute it - including the OS loaders.  It is small, but hardly 
 primitive.  K > What is the proper terminology to describe the ROM based firmware that is K > activated at power-up and whose job is to seek an EFI partition ? (I used  > "primitive ROM" for it) ?  >    EFI   H > What is the proper terminology to describe the actual software that is loadedL > from an EFI partition by the "primitive ROM" and then executed to continue the  > booting process ?   K OS Loader.  For say, Linux this is ELILO.  For VMS - VMS_LOADER.  These are L just EFI applications which happen to terminate the EFI firmware context andL never return.  Other EFI applications can be hardware diagnostics, or even aH complete FTP implementation.  VMS provides several EFI applications thatB allow you from the shell prompt to discover what a FSn device name/ translates to in VMS terms (like DKA1000), etc.   J The SRM console by comparison is also a sophisticated multi-processor OS -G but its "applications" are ROM resident.  But under some circumstances, H there have been SRM versions that allowed things like running ROM images from a FAT formatted floppy.  J EFI is much more powerful from the point of view that EFI applications canJ be added ad-hoc as disk resident images that the user can execute from the console prompt.   L If I were able to go back on Alpha (and I'm pretty sure the entire committeeI I was part of that last worked on trying to do just this would agree with K me) - we would probably come up with something very similar to EFI.  We may C well have wanted to use FAT as the format - because it's simple and K ubiquitous - but I'm not sure MS would have gone along with it.  EFI pretty I much meets *all* of the requirements and recommendations that we laid out H when we tried to bridge the gap between the Alpha NT "AlphaBIOS" and the SRM.  K The only other competing console paradym that would have gotten a good look I (with a nod to Sun) is OpenBoot - a system based on Forth.  Apple and Sun G use this for booting, but since Microsoft does not - it is not an ideal J solution if Windows will be one of the OS's (although there are thin-layer, methods for booting Windows using OpenBoot).  F I can't comment on your distain for Windows and MicroSoft.  If you areH paranoid about what Windows could theoretically do to a VMS system disk,L then I recommend that you not attach a VMS system to a disk subsystem that aK Windows system has direct access to - again regardless of the architecture. I The fact that the IPF VMS system disk has a FAT formatted partition on it D does not create a situation where a virus or a worm can "infect" theJ partition in a way that was common on DOS - MBR infection in that case wasH used to insert code into the "bootblock" - the MBR is not used on IPF toI contain code.  A very knowledgeable programmer (in Windows, IPF, VMS, and H the VMS IPF bootpath) - with a method for executing their insertion withF privlege and access to the disk - would be required to pull it off andJ insert malicious code into say, the OS Loader - and it would be far easierF for someone with that knowledge and skill to simply create a new bogusL execlet (the code to do simple read/write for ODS-5 isn't a huge problem) toJ install their trojan code (and they could do this for both architectures).I There are ALWAYS risks when you have both a heterogenious enviroment with J access to shared storage *and* where you fail to maintain proper security.J This has been the case for at least the last 20 years.  A dual ported RP06( was just as vulnerable (if less common).   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2004 15:13:05 GMT 4 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com> Subject: Re: Kerry who? 2 Message-ID: <5ek%c.9825$RX2.3649@news.cpqcorp.net>  # What does this have to do with VMS?   L Dirty secrets:  Money talks.  Personality wins over issues every time.  MostK people are sheep and want to be told what to think.  A focused message - no K matter how wrong or right - wins over reasoned debate.  Lastly, if all else H fails - wrap yourself in God and the Flag, scare the crap out of people.  J Doesn't matter who you apply the above to.  Dubya is currently on the last& one.  Willy only needed the first two.  J The press on the other hand will always follow the story that will get theK most viewers, this won't be intellegent discussion of issues or policy - it J will be the "horse race".  Once the winner has been "called" enthusiasm ofJ the losers supporters will wane...  as well as the general interest of theE viewers.  But remember that this is bad for ratings if it happens too I early - so don't give up so easily.  The mud will start to be flung.  The L "race" will "tighten".  In the end, the result may come down to world eventsG neither side can control - the "October Suprise":  A heat-of-the-moment J comment in a debate.  A resonant comment by John Stuart on the Daily Show.F The capture of Bin Laden.  A stock market tumble.  A terrorist attack.  G I expect that there are really only 40 "undecided" voters in the United L States - most of them in comas.  The one who will win is the one who can getI people to head to the polls and express their decision in enough numbers.     2 "Nomen Nescio" <nobody@dizum.com> wrote in message2 news:ac924a1a1d56db21c31b720479eff339@dizum.com... > D > On Monday night, the Republicans were having their party, so I hadH > mine. I gathered friends -- New Yorkers, San Franciscans and one stray > Angelino --  > I > for cocktails, snacks and a chance to observe the political system from H > the relative safety of a Manhattan living room. We put boring speechesE > on mute, but jacked up the sound when John McCain and Rudy Giuliani  > took the stage.  > ( > A typical conversation went like this: > H > Guest A: Ohmygod. Bush screwed McCain so hard in the 2000 primary, why > is he kissing Bush's butt? >  > Guest B: Pass the vodka. > E > Guest A: I mean George W. all but called him an insane Vietnam vet.  >  > Guest B: Pass the vodka. > > > Guest A: And you know McCain is personal friends with Kerry. > A > Guest B to Guest C: Can you pass the vodka? This is giving me a  > headache.  > I > The guests seem stunned by, but impressed with, the ability of the Bush ? > campaign to take people who have never shown much personal or I > ideological affinity for President Bush (and Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger > > would fall among these) and turn them into Zombies-for-Bush. > G > Near the end of the night's broadcast, I took a poll. How many people ! > thought Kerry was going to win?  > F > The room contained liberal and Democratic voters of different races,F > national origins, incomes, professions and generations. Not a single > solitary one raised a hand.  > I > My stomach did a little flip-flop. I'd underestimated the depth of John H > F. Kerry's problem, his lack, to quote a phrase from the Bush I years,I > of the "vision thing." No one can win the presidency without mobilizing F > the base, and Kerry's base, uninspired and dispirited, is weakening.I > Along with the Republican convention, this week's big political news is E > a series of shakeups in the Kerry campaign, a last-ditch attempt to = > correct course. It's now or never. Or to quote another Bush  > phrase, "bring it on." >  > J > ######################################################################## > ###################### > K > I watched President Bush&#8217;s acceptance speech tonight at a sushi bar  on@ > the Lower East Side with a group of reporters from a prominentF > Washington, D.C.-based publication. The whole time: heckling. Every. > Single. Line.  > J > Now, we&#8217;ve all seen the polls (or read about them) where the pressC > corps routinely leans Democratic by a factor of about ten-to-one.  > Still, it was a bit shocking.  > G > It was a little like Mystery Science Theater 3000, but with reporters  > instead of robots. > F > Every line of the speech, every item on Bush&#8217;s laundry list of domesticF > candy (yuck, too sweet), they had something snide to say. More moneyJ > for community colleges? Somehow not good enough. Education? Bush sucks -I > - and any school showing improvement under No Child Left Behind is just : > fudging its numbers. Iraq? Don&#8217;t get them started. > J > Now, who knows. Maybe these folks aren&#8217;t writing on the acceptanceE > speech (probably not, since we all ended up at a lounge later a few G > blocks away, talking politics), but it shows just where they&#8217;re  comingI > from in any other story they do. Could Bush get fair treatment from any F > of these people? I don&#8217;t know, but I&#8217;d be surprised. One guy&#8217;s posture C > during the entire speech was like that of a boxer, waiting for an G > opening. Nothing Bush said -- not even his declaring a workers&#8217; ) > revolution -- could have impressed him.  > ) > OK, nobody there was quite a Communist.  > I > But they were all pretty closed-minded. I really hope I'm a bit fairer- B > minded than they were. Did I listen to John Kerry&#8217;s speechK > thinking, "Hmmm... That&#8217;s an interesting point"? No. Of course not.  I L > didn&#8217;t, however, feel the need to heckle -- the need to hate him the" > way that these people hate Bush. > H > I&#8217;ve said it before, but I&#8217;ll say it again: Bush-hatred is far, far( > stronger than Clinton-hatred ever was. > G > The punch line here, however, is this: Everyone at the table expected 4 > Bush to win. No anger. No denial. Just acceptance. >  > J > ######################################################################## > #######################  >    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Sep 2004 07:40:21 -0700 . From: fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso), Subject: Re: Marketing of tech into campuses= Message-ID: <f30679fb.0409070640.2fab1374@posting.google.com>   a JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message news:<413D40F1.E29AB61B@teksavvy.com>... O > http://news.com.com/Big+tech+on+campus/2100-1025_3-5347538.html?tag=nefd.lede  > L > Very good article about how many technology companies are fighting to haveO > their technologies installed and used by students on campuses. (Remember when * > VMS was prevalent in universities :-) ?&    B OpenVMS would become a campus operating system again if HP donate D pairs of Itanium servers and a suite of products/development to the  universities.    Regards    FC   ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 15:16:08 +0000 (UTC)( From: m.kraemer@gsi.de (Michael Kraemer), Subject: Re: Marketing of tech into campuses5 Message-ID: <chkjbo$5kr$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>   n In article <f30679fb.0409070640.2fab1374@posting.google.com>, fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso) writes:D > OpenVMS would become a campus operating system again if HP donate F > pairs of Itanium servers and a suite of products/development to the  > universities.   B I highly doubt that. They'd probably accept the donation, wipe outA the VMS installation and install Linux instead. Integrates better  with the usual infrastructure.  E Apart from that, a Power5 box is probably a better FP number cruncher  these days.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2004 09:25:20 -0600 % From: Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com> , Subject: Re: Marketing of tech into campusesA Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20040907092244.023dbc80@raptor.psccos.com>   F Besides which, OS courses all uniformly teach how wonderful UNIX is asG a kernel.  When I taught an OS kernel design course at a local college, G people were a) horrified that it wasn't totally UNIX-centric, b) amazed I when I started covering, for example, memory management done the VMS way. I That was both students and other profs, by the way.  There's just way too I much "intellectual" momentum that would have to be overcome.  Just having 4 the systems there would do nothing in and of itself.  , At 09:16 AM 9/7/2004, Michael Kraemer wrote:? >In article <f30679fb.0409070640.2fab1374@posting.google.com>,  1 >fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso) writes: E > > OpenVMS would become a campus operating system again if HP donate G > > pairs of Itanium servers and a suite of products/development to the  > > universities.  > C >I highly doubt that. They'd probably accept the donation, wipe out B >the VMS installation and install Linux instead. Integrates better >with the usual infrastructure. F >Apart from that, a Power5 box is probably a better FP number cruncher >these days.   ------J +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+J | Dan O'Reilly                  |  "There are 10 types of people in this |J | Principal Engineer            |   world: those who understand binary   |J | Process Software              |   and those who don't."                |J | http://www.process.com        |                                        |J +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2004 17:50:58 +0200 * From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>, Subject: Re: Marketing of tech into campuses* Message-ID: <2q63n7Frm5d0U1@uni-berlin.de>   Dan O'Reilly wrote: H > Besides which, OS courses all uniformly teach how wonderful UNIX is asI > a kernel.  When I taught an OS kernel design course at a local college, I > people were a) horrified that it wasn't totally UNIX-centric, b) amazed K > when I started covering, for example, memory management done the VMS way. K > That was both students and other profs, by the way.  There's just way too K > much "intellectual" momentum that would have to be overcome.  Just having 6 > the systems there would do nothing in and of itself. >   H Aargh. This was a recent experience for me too. Not only did the guy in F question ask me why on earth VMS didn't do stuff the Unix way, but he - asked me what my aversion to online chat was.   K Simple answer to the latter of course - he kept me online for far too long.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 11:57:00 -0400' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> , Subject: RE: Marketing of tech into campusesR Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB3E0341@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----: > From: Fabio Cardoso [mailto:fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br]=20" > Sent: September 7, 2004 10:40 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com . > Subject: Re: Marketing of tech into campuses >=20= > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message=20 * > news:<413D40F1.E29AB61B@teksavvy.com>... > >=20@ > http://news.com.com/Big+tech+on+campus/2100-1025_3-5347538.htm > l?tag=3Dnefd.lede  > >=20@ > > Very good article about how many technology companies are=20 > fighting to have; > > their technologies installed and used by students on=20  > campuses. (Remember when, > > VMS was prevalent in universities :-) ?& >=20 >=20F > OpenVMS would become a campus operating system again if HP donate=20H > pairs of Itanium servers and a suite of products/development to the=20 > universities.=20 >=20	 > Regards  >=20  % Fabio - ask and you shall receive :-)   G Check out University porting open source programs to OpenVMS on Itanium  servers:  . http://h71000.www7.hp.com/news/ospp_turin.htmlH "HP OpenVMS on Integrity servers Open Source Porting Program underway at Turin university  G OpenVMS is the current hot topic among computer engineering students at E Italy's Politecnico di Torino, which is the first university to fully A implement the HP OpenVMS on Integrity servers Open Source Porting A Program. Under the initiative, HP is placing two rx2600 Integrity F servers and two Alpha XP1000 workstations at the university to support5 classroom and graduate projects that port open source E applications-typically running on Linux or Open64-to OpenVMS. "It's a A great opportunity for Politecnico di Torino and HP," says OpenVMS F ambassador Massimo Belloni, "The university students get the chance toE use leading-edge equipment and the latest OpenVMS developers' version ? 8.1 for Integrity servers, and HP gains a range of new, capable A applications that run on OpenVMS." In addition, Corporate OpenVMS C Engineering and local OpenVMS ambassadors provide direct support to @ students, preparing them for a successful future in the computer	 industry.   A The university is initially focusing on open source compilers and G security applications. "Our students are thrilled to be able to consult H with HP OpenVMS engineers in Nashua, New Hampshire-very few universitiesG can offer this kind of opportunity," says Vice Chancellor and Professor F Marco Mezzalama, "Moreover, OpenVMS has an easy to understand internalG structure that makes it an excellent operating system for teaching." As D the university ports applications to OpenVMS so that they can run as> executables, HP anticipates making these programs available to customers."   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  $ "OpenVMS has always had integrity .. Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .."   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2004 14:27:05 GMT 4 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com> Subject: Re: Open Motif for VMS 1 Message-ID: <Zyj%c.9810$ST2.668@news.cpqcorp.net>   J At least one VMS customer does indeed have an independent port of Motif toK VMS.  I can't tell you who, or direct you to them since they have not given  us that permission.   K The main differences between the VMS Motif implementation and the OpenMotif  implementation:   C     - VMS is based on V1.2 of Motif, the latest Motif is V2.2 or so G     - The VMS version has some DEC-specific widgets that are not in the  common pool L     - The VMS version has OS-specific modifcations to adapt it to the OS and	 C runtime L       environment - and to allow things like VMS filenames in widgets as the default.  C A straight port of Motif V2.2 to OpenVMS would probably not be that L difficult with todays CRTL.  It would end up displaying and taking filenames7 as UNIX pathnames, and it might have other limitations.   I The main reason we did not upgrade Motif when we upgraded X11 to R6.6 was D that we are also using a variation of CDE V1.0 - and Motif 2.x brokeL compatability with some undocumented (I believe) features used by CDE.  So aH port would have also meant upgrading CDE.  So this work has been put offE until such time that there is a clear need/demand for some Motif V2.x K feature.  The plain truth is that most Motif applications have standardized L on the V1.2x subset of Motif.  New X11 based code is more likely to use GTK+ than a new Motif feature.     = "Keith Cayemberg" <keith.cayemberg@arcor.de> wrote in message ; news:413abfb3$0$8804$9b4e6d93@newsread2.arcor-online.net...  > Mark Smith wrote: 
 > > Hi Group,  > > 6 > > Has anyone compiled Open Motif (2.2) for Open VMS? > > C > > I wish to compile and use Open Motif on Open VMS 7.3.  I have a G > > program I wish to port from Mac OSX that uses Open Motif libraries. D > > Some of the widgets that I am using are not available in the DEC > > Windows supplied by HP.  > > I > > If so are they are command procedures available to assist in building  > > Open Motif.  > > 
 > > Thanks > >  > >  > > Mark > 
 > Hi Mark, > * > have you read the Open Motif FAQ here... > - > http://www.opengroup.org/openmotif/faq.html  > J > The source code for Open Motif is exactly the same as for the commercialD > Motif from the Open Group. The only difference being the licensingI > terms. So technically, it appears the commercial Motif for OpenVMS from E > HP is already a port of a specific version of the Open Motif source I > code. There have in the past been various discussions in COV of missing = > features and widgets which have not been ported to OpenVMS.  > J > Open Motif and it's source code are only released for use on Open Source& > operating systems as defined here... > 6 > http://www.opensource.org/docs/definition_plain.html > J > Although it is possible to purchase "most" of the OpenVMS source code onG > CD-ROM, it is not clear to me the OpenVMS qualifies as an Open Source I > operating systems as defined there. The "Open" in OpenVMS of course has ! > nothing to do with open source.  > G > I have been investigating the OpenVMS Applications Market for several @ > years, but I have never encountered a release or port of MotifH > independent of that provided by DEC/Compaq/HP. I have also never heardH > of anyone independently attempting to compile the Motif source code on > OpenVMS before you.  > 	 > Cheers!  >  > Keith Cayemberg  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2004 15:37:59 +0200 2 From: "Dr. Otto Titze" <titze@ikp.tu-darmstadt.de> Subject: Problem with LPD queue 5 Message-ID: <chkdis$3i4$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>    Hi,   I after some some other Cluster problems, all queues had disappeared. When  G reistalling the queues I tried to transfer a formerly UCX_LPD Queue to   TCPIP.  2 When starting the queue I got in opcom the message  G %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM   7-SEP-2004 15:17:05.76  %%%%%%%%%%%    (from node  ! LINAXA at 7-SEP-2004 15:17:03.91) " Message from user SYSTEM on LINAXA< -SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO, access violation, reason mask=00, virtual : address=0000000000000000, PC=000000000006F348, PS=0000001B  2 and tcpip$telnetsym crashed and left a *.dmp file.   What could be wrong?   Queue:? Printer queue HPR217, stopped, on LINAXA::"130.xx.xx.225:4242",  mounted form DEFAULT@    /BASE_PRIORITY=4 /DEFAULT=(FEED,FORM=DEFAULT) /OWNER=[SYSTEM];    /PROCESSOR=TCPIP$TELNETSYM /PROTECTION=(S:M,O:D,G:R,W:S)    Printcap Entry:  HPR217|hpr217:\ 1          :lf=/SYS$SPECIFIC/TCPIP$LPD/HPR217.LOG:\           :lp=HPR217:\ 0          :rm=hpr217.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de:\          :hl:\          :rp=text:\ -          :sd=/SYS$SPECIFIC/TCPIP$LPD/HPR217:\           :sh:\
          :sb: , (analog to the former entry in ucx$printcap)   Thanks and regards   Otto  -   ------------------------------------------- , | Dr. Otto Titze, Kernphysik TUD           |, | Schlossgartenstr. 9, D-64289 Darmstadt   |, | titze@ikp.tu-darmstadt.de                |, | Tel: +49(6151)16-2916,FAX:16-4321        |-   -------------------------------------------    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2004 14:06:44 GMT 6 From: Jeffrey Coffield <jeffrey@digitalsynergyinc.com># Subject: Re: Problem with LPD queue = Message-ID: <Ufj%c.17070$H95.3519@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>    Dr. Otto Titze wrote:  > Hi,  > K > after some some other Cluster problems, all queues had disappeared. When  I > reistalling the queues I tried to transfer a formerly UCX_LPD Queue to   > TCPIP. > 4 > When starting the queue I got in opcom the message > I > %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM   7-SEP-2004 15:17:05.76  %%%%%%%%%%%    (from node  # > LINAXA at 7-SEP-2004 15:17:03.91) $ > Message from user SYSTEM on LINAXA> > -SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO, access violation, reason mask=00, virtual < > address=0000000000000000, PC=000000000006F348, PS=0000001B > 4 > and tcpip$telnetsym crashed and left a *.dmp file. >  > What could be wrong? >  > Queue:A > Printer queue HPR217, stopped, on LINAXA::"130.xx.xx.225:4242",  > mounted form DEFAULTA >   /BASE_PRIORITY=4 /DEFAULT=(FEED,FORM=DEFAULT) /OWNER=[SYSTEM] < >   /PROCESSOR=TCPIP$TELNETSYM /PROTECTION=(S:M,O:D,G:R,W:S) >  > Printcap Entry:  > HPR217|hpr217:\ 2 >         :lf=/SYS$SPECIFIC/TCPIP$LPD/HPR217.LOG:\ >         :lp=HPR217:\1 >         :rm=hpr217.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de:\  >         :hl:\  >         :rp=text:\. >         :sd=/SYS$SPECIFIC/TCPIP$LPD/HPR217:\ >         :sh:\  >         :sb:. > (analog to the former entry in ucx$printcap) >  > Thanks and regards >  > Otto > . >  -------------------------------------------. > | Dr. Otto Titze, Kernphysik TUD           |. > | Schlossgartenstr. 9, D-64289 Darmstadt   |. > | titze@ikp.tu-darmstadt.de                |. > | Tel: +49(6151)16-2916,FAX:16-4321        |. >  ------------------------------------------- >  >  > F |It looks like you are using two different setup up procedures on the F same queue. When I use /PROCESSOR=TCPIP$TELNETSYM, I set up the queue G using only the INIT/QUEUE command. The printcap entries are for queues  < that are defined using SYS$SYSTEM:TCPIP$LPRSETUP and have a F /PROCESSOR=TCPIP$LPD_SMB. The port 4242 also look strange since I use E TELNETSYM to usually print to port 9100 which is the default reverse  # telnet port on a HP JetDirect card.   
 Jeff Coffield    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2004 14:32:07 GMT & From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com>' Subject: Re: Supported Itanium hardware 2 Message-ID: <HDj%c.9812$qU2.7011@news.cpqcorp.net>   JF Mezei wrote:  > Robert Deininger wrote:  > 	 >>Nothing H >>has been done to keep VMS from working on McKinley rx2600 systems, but% >>they will not get official support.  >  > M > When VMS 8.2 is being compiled, what compiler flavour is being used ? Is it K > being compiled to make use of features in Madison, or is Merced still the O > lowest common denominator in terms of compiler options to make sure VMS works . > on more platforms ? (even if not supported). > O > What the very early adopters, software developpers ? Have any gotten hardware N > which will no longer be "supported" on VMS once it is released commercially,O > or have all non-HP developpers gotten hardware that is recent enough to still  > be supported ?  F The compilers are tuned to Madison chips.  Actually, all the Itanium2 D chips (McKinley, Madison, etc.) all look the same to the compilers. G There should be an /ARCHITECTURE=ITANIUM2 that parallels the /ARCH=EV6   etc. you see on Alpha.  F The compilers, as far as I know, don't generate any instructions that G wouldn't run on a Itanium1/Merced chip.  There are no new instructions  A in Madison or McKinley over Merced that the compiler cares about.    --   John Reagan / HP Pascal/{A|I}MACRO for OpenVMS Project Leader  Hewlett-Packard Company    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Sep 2004 06:25:49 -0500 B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) Subject: Virus writers and VMS3 Message-ID: <Jxw+ZrTWlbYm@eisner.encompasserve.org>    > From: "Doc." <doc.cypher@...>  >  > Doc. > --  I > OpenVMS:     Eight out of ten hackers prefer *other* operating systems. I > http://www.openvms-rocks.com    Deathrow Public-Access OpenVMS Cluster.   I Hackers may or may not prefer VMS, but virus writers certainly know about E VMS. The following is one of the possible responses that the Mydoom.M 4 virus sends in it's false non-delivery notification:  = <<< 400-aturner; %MAIL-E-OPENOUT, error opening !AS as output 3 <<< 400-aturner; -RMS-E-CRE, ACP file create failed ; <<< 400-aturner; -SYSTEM-F-EXDISKQUOTA, disk quota exceeded   / I wonder why VMS error messages were selected ?    Simon.   --  B Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       P SCO: Proudly pushing Microsoft down to #2 on the list of most disliked companies   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2004 11:34:06 GMT ! From: Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com> & Subject: Re: VMS marketing opportunity8 Message-ID: <as6rj0h18mv0776ept1cbuutl2lphuilpb@4ax.com>  L On 6 Sep 2004 22:29:12 -0500, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote:  a >In article <413D23EE.FBCC2638@comcast.net>, David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes:  >> Larry Kilgallen wrote:  > G >>> The major advantage VMS Clustering (or MVS data vaulting) brings is G >>> based on the notion that the same disaster is not going to hit more G >>> than one site.  Considering the limited distances supported for VMS H >>> clusters, if I were in Florida I would invest in one very strong and( >>> well protected (UPS, etc.) building. >>  K >> True. Then again, even given such a massive storm system, it is possible D >> that a remote cluster site outside of Frances's reach may survive >> relatively uneffected.  > 0 >What is the current limit on Cluster distance ?  O Strictly there is no actual limit as what is important is that your network etc O performs with a certain reliable latency. It's all in the SPD. We usually quote K 500m/800km as the upper limit but latency over those distances will require P careful application design & cluster management. On the other hand for a clusterM that has computer rooms 25m/40km apart the connection is quite transparent to  all intents & purposes.    -- Nigel Barker Live from the sunny Cote d'Azur    ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 10:34:42 -0400# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> & Subject: Re: VMS marketing opportunity, Message-ID: <ms-dnRVOKMM4VKDcRVn-rA@igs.net>   David J Dachtera wrote:  > JF Mezei wrote:  >>G >> RIGHT NOW would be the best time to buys VMS specific ads in any/all D >> Florida newspapers extolling VMS's disaster tolerance virtues and> >> VMS's ability to have a single cluster spanning hundreds of >> kilometres. > H > Well, actually, people are going to be focussed on recovery right now.G > Damage control for future events might best be handled once folks are H > less distracted and better able to accept something that's as far "off > the beaten path", as VMS is. >  > ...IMHO, YMMV... > E > Timing is everything, and I wouldn't say the time is now. Next week = > maybe, or the week after ("How do we make the next one more  > survivable?")     G Of course timing is everything....and HP misses marketing OpenVMS every  time.   * They are consistent that way, aren't they?   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2004 11:32:30 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> & Subject: Re: VMS marketing opportunity, Message-ID: <413DD48C.8A0ECACA@teksavvy.com>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:1 > What is the current limit on Cluster distance ?     M It is well above what its competitors are. And I believe it is at 400km right . now (Keith Paris can confirm or correct this).  D > Certainly there were multiple places in Florida hit, and one would! > not want to have all sites hit.   K No matter how big Frances or any other storm is, because VMS allows for the J greatest distance between 2 data centres, it is the best solution.  If youJ build your data centres to survive flooding, then of of the 2 data centres= 400km apart should be able to survive the actual wind damage.   M Remember that in a hurricane, the strongest winds are in a relatively focused M area near the centre with winds diminishing significantly as you go away from K the centre. In the case of florida, shoddy construction is really the cause L for all the damage. A mobile home becomes a projectile factory. 200km/h windG may not destroy your home, but a 2*4 let loose by a mobile home that is @ carried to your home at 200km/h will punch through a brick wall.  J I went through a category 4 cyclone in Australia in 1996 (Olivia), and theK town (karatha) had been built to australian cyclone standards and there was @ barely any damage the next morning (except for fallen branches).  K That a weak hurricane cause so much wind damage to florida should ring some # bells as to construction standards.   H Australia learned its lesson from cyclone tracy that destroyed Darwin onL christmas eve 1974. (necessitating airlift to evacuate the town the next day( sicne there was no water or power left).  J It seems that Florida never learns its lesson. The problem is that even ifN your home is well built, if your neighbour isn't built to hurricane standards,C it will become a projectile factory and that will damage your home.   J And this comes back to my original message: NOW would be the time to placeI some ads about VMS disaster tolerance capabilities because it is NOW that L floridians really think about such things. In a few weeks, they will go backQ to living normally and forget that they are in the path of hirricanes every year.    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Sep 2004 00:24:29 -0700 ( From: arjdombivli@indiatimes.com (ashok)' Subject: why mainframes are still used? ; Message-ID: <1dc813f.0409062324.24f401b@posting.google.com>   	 dear all,       C In the today's age of supercomputer ,why mainframes are still used? / which are the operating systems for mainframes? # How they are different from the PC? 0 which are the mainframe manufacturing companies?  " sorry to trouble you like this....     regds, ypj    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Sep 2004 00:26:39 -0700 ( From: arjdombivli@indiatimes.com (ashok)' Subject: why mainframes are still used? < Message-ID: <1dc813f.0409062326.3efa91ec@posting.google.com>  	 dear all,       C In the today's age of supercomputer ,why mainframes are still used? / which are the operating systems for mainframes? # How they are different from the PC? 0 which are the mainframe manufacturing companies?  " sorry to trouble you like this....     regds, ypj    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2004 07:39:13 GMT 5 From: Bruno Saverio Delbono <bruno.s.delbono@mail.ac> + Subject: Re: why mainframes are still used? - Message-ID: <BAd%c.340680$gE.114438@pd7tw3no>    ashok wrote:  E > In the today's age of supercomputer ,why mainframes are still used? 1 > which are the operating systems for mainframes? % > How they are different from the PC? 2 > which are the mainframe manufacturing companies?  @ What are you trying to acheive here? An answer to your homework?   --  ) ***** bruno.s.delbono[at]mail[dot]ac*****   E "int main(){int O=0,s[]={0x84,0xe4,0xea,0xdc,0xde,0100,0xa6,0xc2,0xe\ D c,0xca,0xe4,0xd2,0xde,0100,0x88,0xca,0xd8,0xc4,0xde,0xdc,0xde,0100,\D 0xf8,0100,0170,0xc4,0xe4,0xea,0xdc,0xde,'\\',0xe6,'\\',0xc8,0xca,0x\D d8,0xc4,0xde,0xdc,0xde,0x80,0xda,0xc2,0xd2,0xd8,'\\',0xc2,0xc6,0174\D ,0100,0xf8,0100,0xd0,0xe8,0xe8,0xe0,0164,0136,0136,0xee,0xee,0xee,'\D \\',0xda,0xc2,0xd2,0xd8,'\\',0xc2,0xc6,0136,0xea,0xe6,0xca,0xe4,0xe\D 6,0136,0xc4,0xe4,0xea,0xdc,0xde,0x0};while(O<83){(s[O]==0)?printf("\D %c\n",(47<<2)>>2):printf("%c",s[O]>>/******************************\E ***mailto:**********************************/1);++O;}return s[--O];}"    ------------------------------   Date: 07 Sep 2004 08:14:24 GMT+ From: "Doc." <doc.cypher@openvms-rocks.com> + Subject: Re: why mainframes are still used? 7 Message-ID: <Xns955D683178FE5dcovmsrox@212.100.160.123>    %NEWS-I-NEWMSG, ashok wrote in  3 news:1dc813f.0409062326.3efa91ec@posting.google.com    > dear all,  >  >  > E > In the today's age of supercomputer ,why mainframes are still used? 1 > which are the operating systems for mainframes? % > How they are different from the PC? 2 > which are the mainframe manufacturing companies? > $ > sorry to trouble you like this....  I Since VMS systems aren't mainframes this may not be the most appropriate  , forum to ask in.  Try bit.listserv.ibm-main.  J I'd also add that today is hardly the age of the supercomputer, they were E first built in the 1960s.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercomputer   I Incidentally, having a poke round the wikipedia leads me to believe that    someone from here should update I http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_cluster.  DEC is only mentioned in  0 passing and OpenVMS isn't even mentioned at all.     Doc. --  G OpenVMS:     Eight out of ten hackers prefer *other* operating systems. G http://www.openvms-rocks.com    Deathrow Public-Access OpenVMS Cluster.    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Sep 2004 08:28:24 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) + Subject: Re: why mainframes are still used? 3 Message-ID: <jN$fCqaHWmlH@eisner.encompasserve.org>   e In article <Xns955D683178FE5dcovmsrox@212.100.160.123>, "Doc." <doc.cypher@openvms-rocks.com> writes:  > K > Since VMS systems aren't mainframes this may not be the most appropriate  . > forum to ask in.  Try bit.listserv.ibm-main.  D    If VAX 9000, VAX 10000, and DEC 10000 aren't mainframes, what areG    they?  I our shop the DEC 10000 running VMS was certainly considered     a mainframe.    ------------------------------   Date: 07 Sep 2004 13:51:13 GMT/ From: Thierry Dussuet <thierry@dussuet.lugs.ch> + Subject: Re: why mainframes are still used? / Message-ID: <slrncjrf6h.qo.thierry@MARS.Family>   K On 2004-09-07, Bob Koehler <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote: g > In article <Xns955D683178FE5dcovmsrox@212.100.160.123>, "Doc." <doc.cypher@openvms-rocks.com> writes:  >>  L >> Since VMS systems aren't mainframes this may not be the most appropriate / >> forum to ask in.  Try bit.listserv.ibm-main.  > F >    If VAX 9000, VAX 10000, and DEC 10000 aren't mainframes, what areI >    they?  I our shop the DEC 10000 running VMS was certainly considered  >    a mainframe.   ( Big electricity swallowing heaters   :-)   Thierry    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2004 15:16:18 +0100 + From: Rodrigo Ventura <yoda@isr.ist.utl.pt> + Subject: Re: why mainframes are still used? ) Message-ID: <m3acw2mafh.fsf@pixie.isrnet>   D >>>>> "Thierry" == Thierry Dussuet <thierry@dussuet.lugs.ch> writes:  =     Thierry> <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote: D     >> If VAX 9000, VAX 10000, and DEC 10000 aren't mainframes, whatD     >> are they?  I our shop the DEC 10000 running VMS was certainly     >> considered a mainframe.  3     Thierry> Big electricity swallowing heaters :-)   D Indeed! According to the site preparation manual of the 10000 beast,C it is a 3- or 5-cabinet system, with two to three power line cords, F each one triphasic, swalling 24 Amps (120/208V). The 5-cabinet versionD dissipates 10900 Watt! (maybe that's why it is called 10000 ;))) TheD weight of the cabinets range from 448Kg to 720Kg. Wow! What a beast!  > Anyone care to bring a couple of "mainframe" specs to compare?   Cheers,    Rodrigo    --    : *** Rodrigo Martins de Matos Ventura <yoda@isr.ist.utl.pt>. ***  Web page: http://www.isr.ist.utl.pt/~yoda0 ***   Teaching Assistant and PhD Student at ISR:7 ***    Instituto de Sistemas e Robotica, Polo de Lisboa 4 ***     Instituto Superior Tecnico, Lisboa, PORTUGALH *** PGP fingerprint = 0119 AD13 9EEE 264A 3F10  31D3 89B3 C6C4 60C6 4585   ------------------------------   Date: 07 Sep 2004 15:11:56 GMT+ From: "Doc." <doc.cypher@openvms-rocks.com> + Subject: Re: why mainframes are still used? 7 Message-ID: <Xns955DAF7762768dcovmsrox@212.100.160.123>   $ %NEWS-I-NEWMSG, Bob Koehler wrote in+ news:jN$fCqaHWmlH@eisner.encompasserve.org    @ > In article <Xns955D683178FE5dcovmsrox@212.100.160.123>, "Doc.") > <doc.cypher@openvms-rocks.com> writes:   >>  ? >> Since VMS systems aren't mainframes this may not be the most ; >> appropriate forum to ask in.  Try bit.listserv.ibm-main.  > F >    If VAX 9000, VAX 10000, and DEC 10000 aren't mainframes, what are> >    they?  I our shop the DEC 10000 running VMS was certainly >    considered a mainframe.  J I stand corrected.  I see from google groups there was a discussion about L sun considering VMS mainframe back in April 2000.  The 9000 VAX was pointed I out as being marketed as a mainframe.  The suggestion was also made that  F the I/O architecture was a defining factor in labelling a system as a J mainframe, but I don't think anyone came up with a satisfactory answer to  that.      Doc. --  G OpenVMS:     Eight out of ten hackers prefer *other* operating systems. G http://www.openvms-rocks.com    Deathrow Public-Access OpenVMS Cluster.    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Sep 2004 12:01:10 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) + Subject: Re: why mainframes are still used? 3 Message-ID: <OHQodS0dynXv@eisner.encompasserve.org>   W In article <m3acw2mafh.fsf@pixie.isrnet>, Rodrigo Ventura <yoda@isr.ist.utl.pt> writes:  > @ > Anyone care to bring a couple of "mainframe" specs to compare? >   G    All right, our IBM 360's were the size of a small house, but our DEC H    10000 was slightly larger than our 4341.  Unless you count IBM's disk    farm.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2004 15:29:59 GMT 3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond) : Subject: Re: [VMS V7.3-2] PCSI INSTALL /SAVE_RECOVERY_DATA2 Message-ID: <Xtk%c.9827$wY2.6299@news.cpqcorp.net>  1 In article <newscache$on7f3i$y0v1$1@news.sil.at>, 9  peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) writes: M >I recently installed the last ECOs for VMS V7.3-2 and noticed that something 8 >changed in the way the ECOs behave during installation. > K >Until last month (most if not) all VMS732_* ECOs asked for saving recovery G >information if one hasn't specified /SAVE_RECOVERY_DATA during INSTALL  ..  > This behavious is defined by the KIT, not by the PCSI utility.B I'm not certain that the Geroge Pagliarulo follows this newsgroup,0 but he would be the one to answer your question.   --  J       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 16:19:49 +0000 (UTC)6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER): Subject: Re: [VMS V7.3-2] PCSI INSTALL /SAVE_RECOVERY_DATA1 Message-ID: <newscache$ydio3i$vfz1$1@news.sil.at>   h In article <Xtk%c.9827$wY2.6299@news.cpqcorp.net>, hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond) writes:k >In article <newscache$on7f3i$y0v1$1@news.sil.at>, peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) writes: N >>I recently installed the last ECOs for VMS V7.3-2 and noticed that something9 >>changed in the way the ECOs behave during installation.  >>L >>Until last month (most if not) all VMS732_* ECOs asked for saving recoveryH >>information if one hasn't specified /SAVE_RECOVERY_DATA during INSTALL >... > ? >This behavious is defined by the KIT, not by the PCSI utility. C >I'm not certain that the Geroge Pagliarulo follows this newsgroup, 1 >but he would be the one to answer your question.    Many Thanks anyway.   > But the question regarding the logical is yours, I suppose ;-)   --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.497 ************************