1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 10 Sep 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 502       Contents:+ Re: ANN: HG FILESERV updates from Lyle West   Re: Another MIME utility problem Re: Backup and ACLs  Re: Backup and ACLs ( Re: Big IA64 test coming in a few months1 Re: cluster member crashes during boot (again...) B European OpenVMS Engineering Events  -  for your planning purposes< Re: For Sale:  2 x DEC 4000-720 (rack-mounted) plus add-ons." Re: Frances and disaster toleranceK Re: freeware's (5.0) mailcount from a system account? (orphaned .mai files)  Re: FTP_Mirror.. anyone?$ Ghostscript V8.11 Installation Error( Re: Ghostscript V8.11 Installation Error( Re: Ghostscript V8.11 Installation Error( Re: Ghostscript V8.11 Installation Error Grace Hopper anniversary today Re: I need SMC  CD for Win2000= I64 TDMS kits are now available for evaluation and field test  Installing VMS Re: Installing VMS< Re: Itanic Adoption Survey from 23-August-2004 Computerworld% Re: Itanium not meeting Intel's goals % RE: Itanium not meeting Intel's goals % Re: Itanium not meeting Intel's goals % RE: Itanium not meeting Intel's goals % Re: Itanium not meeting Intel's goals % Re: Itanium not meeting Intel's goals % RE: Itanium not meeting Intel's goals % Re: Maximum distance for VMS clusters % Re: Maximum distance for VMS clusters % Re: Maximum distance for VMS clusters % Re: Maximum distance for VMS clusters % Re: Maximum distance for VMS clusters  Re: Sending mail via dbl-cobol@ Sent out this updated information today to my distribution listsP Re: Status of PL/I on Itanium (Was: Re: Canada's Equitable Life begins         mP Re: Status of PL/I on Itanium (Was: Re: Canada's Equitable Life begins         mP RE: Status of PL/I on Itanium (Was: Re: Canada's Equitable Life begins         mP Re: Status of PL/I on Itanium (Was: Re: Canada's Equitable Life begins         mP Re: Status of PL/I on Itanium (Was: Re: Canada's Equitable Life begins moving of Stray Symbiont Processes Suggestion for file system  TSM won't accept my circuit name$ Re: TSM won't accept my circuit name$ Re: TSM won't accept my circuit name$ Re: TSM won't accept my circuit name$ Re: TSM won't accept my circuit name$ Re: TSM won't accept my circuit name$ Re: TSM won't accept my circuit name$ Re: TSM won't accept my circuit name$ Re: TSM won't accept my circuit name$ Re: TSM won't accept my circuit name$ Re: TSM won't accept my circuit name; RE: VERITAS Netbackup OpenVMS 5.0 MP1 release now available ; Re: VERITAS Netbackup OpenVMS 5.0 MP1 release now available % VMS 7.2-1 TCPIP Printing extra paper? ) Re: VMS 7.2-1 TCPIP Printing extra paper? ) Re: VMS 7.2-1 TCPIP Printing extra paper?  Re: VMS marketing opportunity  Re: VMS marketing opportunity  Re: VMS marketing opportunity  Re: VMS marketing opportunity  Re: VMS marketing opportunity " Re: why mainframes are still used?" Re: why mainframes are still used?" Re: why mainframes are still used?" Re: why mainframes are still used?" Re: why mainframes are still used?" Re: why mainframes are still used?" Re: why mainframes are still used?" Re: why mainframes are still used?" Re: why mainframes are still used?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 16:34:44 -0500 - From: Hunter Goatley <goathunter@goatley.com> 4 Subject: Re: ANN: HG FILESERV updates from Lyle West* Message-ID: <4140CC74.6040009@goatley.com>  ; A new version of Lyle West's LWW-NEXT_UIC is now available. = This version adds support for defining DCL symbols containing  the UIC information.  < ftp://ftp.process.com/vms-freeware/fileserv/lww-next_uic.zip@ http://vms.process.com/ftp/vms-freeware/fileser/lww-next_uic.zip   And on the mirror servers soon.      Hunter ------9 Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/  goathunter@goatley.com   ------------------------------  * Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 18:20:20 +0000 (UTC)6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)) Subject: Re: Another MIME utility problem 0 Message-ID: <newscache$gads3i$kln$1@news.sil.at>  S In article <chnotl$u32$1@news5.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>, Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> writes: J >Yes, the 1.4 version was far from perfect. However we are at version 1.8  >now....... :-)   
 Not on VAX...    --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 20:24:57 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)  Subject: Re: Backup and ACLs3 Message-ID: <t_20d.10217$zD5.9796@news.cpqcorp.net>   c In article <ec657b64.0409082325.38f735be@posting.google.com>, sinobato@yahoo.com (Sinobato) writes:   E :I need to backup directory and all files/sub-directories beneath it. B :Also, I need to preserve the current ACL that the directories and :files has. ... F :However, when I try to restore it on another node but almost the same( :setup (ie. same user, same identifiers)  D   BACKUP does not generally provide for this, since it is the binaryF   identifier values that are of interest, and these binary values are 0   very seldom the same across different systems.  A   In general, ACLs are considered to be system- or cluster-local.     N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 17:47:38 -0400 From: norm.raphael@metso.com Subject: Re: Backup and ACLsQ Message-ID: <OFED9E29A9.56787024-ON85256F0A.007694B2-85256F0A.0077DDB2@metso.com>   > hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) wrote on 09/09/2004 04:24:57 PM:  ? > In article <ec657b64.0409082325.38f735be@posting.google.com>, ' > sinobato@yahoo.com (Sinobato) writes:  > G > :I need to backup directory and all files/sub-directories beneath it. D > :Also, I need to preserve the current ACL that the directories and > :files has. ... H > :However, when I try to restore it on another node but almost the same* > :setup (ie. same user, same identifiers) > F >   BACKUP does not generally provide for this, since it is the binaryG >   identifier values that are of interest, and these binary values are 2 >   very seldom the same across different systems.  / This is a perplexing statement, at least to me.   B What, if any, provision is in BACKUP for ACE's around directories,	 directory  entries and files?  - Will for example BACKUP/IMAGE preserve these? $ Will BACKUP/PHYSICAL preserve these?  K I understood that BACKUP/INTERCHANGE would deliberately not preserve these.   E Can you either elaborate or provide the appropriate pointers, please.    > C >   In general, ACLs are considered to be system- or cluster-local.  >  > 2 >  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> ----------------------------- 3 >     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ --  www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq 4 >  --------------------------- pure personal opinion --------------------------- G >         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com  >    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 16:29:57 -0400# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> 1 Subject: Re: Big IA64 test coming in a few months , Message-ID: <0KSdnZMLEuDeIN3cRVn-ug@igs.net>   Bill Todd wrote:; > "Paul Repacholi" <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote in message , > news:873c1sbo6p.fsf@k9.prep.synonet.com... >  > ...  > D >> Remind me, what and went was it to be twice as fast as the Alpha? > G > At introduction, according to an HP marketdroid back in the '90s:  2x  > - 3x as fast as RISC.. > D > That would have been Merced in May, 2001.  Perhaps they just neverF > updated their projections and got Curly to cancel EV8 on that basis.    9 A classic case of the misinformed leading the uninformed.   I I've had lots of experience dealing with the fallout of IT people leading K business executives down the garden path. Why should it be any different at  a 'technology' company?    ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 04:46:49 +0000 (UTC) 7 From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) : Subject: Re: cluster member crashes during boot (again...)( Message-ID: <chrbjp$14q$1@pcls4.std.com>  - Rodrigo Ventura <yoda@isr.ist.utl.pt> writes:      >CPU bugcheck codes:2 >        CPU 00 -- PROCGONE, Process not in system  G This means a mandatory system process exited with an error status.  You E must find this status to see why it failed (also which process, too). C I believe the status is left sitting in R0.  SDA> EVAL/COND R0 will 
 help lots.     --   -Mike    ------------------------------   Date: 9 Sep 2004 18:50:24 -0700 1 From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski) K Subject: European OpenVMS Engineering Events  -  for your planning purposes = Message-ID: <857e9e41.0409091750.7f6ad9f0@posting.google.com>    Dear Newsgroup,   E There will be more details on each one of these events as I get them, ? this is just to hold the dates.  This will include engineers as E speakers like Hoff and Andy Goldstein to name two and I will be doing E the VMS strategy presention.  What is cool is that we have Oracle RDB B folks as part of the team this year.  Last year we had a wonderful, time and had the chance to meet many of you.  @ 1.  Sweden Oct 8 OpenVMS Technical Day HP office, Kista Sweden  E 2.  Netherlands Oct 11+12 OpenVMS Technical Update Days -  part of HP % Dutchworld http://www.hpdutchworld.nl = 3.  England OpenVMS Technical Update Days Oct 14+15  - London F 4.  Austria, OpenVMS Technical Update Days, HP Office Vienna Oct 18+19B 5.  Germany, OpenVMS Technical Update Days Oct 21+22, Bad Hamburg   E This in no way changes the OpenVMS Advanced Technical boot camp which 3 is still scheduled for the week of March 20th 2005.   
 Warm Regards,  sue    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 00:08:30 GMT 1 From: Keith Parris <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> E Subject: Re: For Sale:  2 x DEC 4000-720 (rack-mounted) plus add-ons. 4 Message-ID: <2g60d.10251$tO5.10214@news.cpqcorp.net>   John Smith wrote: E > Does this mean that HP's count of VMS systems in operation drops to ! > 411,000 - 2  =  410,998 ??  ;-)   0 Not necessarily. These may find a good home yet.  G And every time a hobbyist installs simh or TS-10 on a PC or a customer  G buys Charon-VAX, and they install and run VMS, the count should go up,  G right? (I just did this with simh on my Windows laptop, so add 1 more.)   N > I wonder how long HP is going to use that same system count? Perhaps as longJ > as the Soviet Union claimed that 99.99% of voters actually voted for Joe	 > Stalin.   C That reminds me. I don't think the 411K number included any of the  G clones made in the USSR, Hungary, etc. (I had the opportunity to speak  G to the DECUS Local User Group in Budapest last summer, and while I was  E there I had the privilege of sharing dinner with a gentleman who had  E helped build one of those clones while he was at the university. Now  ) THAT'S a real Computer Science education!    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 21:26:52 GMT & From: jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net>+ Subject: Re: Frances and disaster tolerance 8 Message-ID: <kii1k0108vi3qsf21kvcoh8o5t12d1f40m@4ax.com>  E On 8 Sep 2004 17:34:40 GMT, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:      > K >I would love to know how the Martin Marietta (now probably called Lockheed I >Martin) complex in Orlando fared?  It was the most bullet-proof computer  >center I have ever seen.   ! Why?  Was Frances shooting at it?    ;-)    -- jls     --- jls 0 The preceding message was personal opinion only.6 I do not speak in any authorized capacity for anyone,  and certainly not my employer.- (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 20:05:42 +0200 B From: Michiel Erens <I.dont.want.spam@this.mailaddress.is.invalid>T Subject: Re: freeware's (5.0) mailcount from a system account? (orphaned .mai files)7 Message-ID: <41409B76.1862@this.mailaddress.is.invalid>    Patti Johnson wrote: >  > Hello all,F > just a quick question:  I've downloaded & used mailcount to identifyC > orphaned mail$...mai files.  It's great.  But how can I use it to G > identify these files for others' accounts without logging in to them? D > As the system administrator, I'd like to clean up others' accounts9 > w/out having to involve them to login to their account.  > 2 > Am I missing something that's painfully obvious?  > Instead of MAILCOUNT we used VFYMAIL from Freeware CD 4. This B program uses a directory as parameter. We run it from a batchfile  that looks like this :     $lees:: $   file = f$search("user_disk:[users.*.mail...]mail.mai")$ $   if file .eqs. "" then goto einde' $   write sys$output "Processing ",file 5 $   maildir = f$extract(0,f$locate("]",file)+1,file)  # $   vfymail /repair /stat 'maildir' 
 $   goto lees  $einde:  $   exit   --   ME Posted by news://news.nb.nu    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 16:27:01 -0500 - From: Hunter Goatley <goathunter@goatley.com> ! Subject: Re: FTP_Mirror.. anyone? * Message-ID: <4140CAA5.5050802@goatley.com>   Hal Kuff wrote: L > Hi, does anyone have a copy of ftp_mirror that they have cleaned up a bit?* > The copy on the ftp sites has a few bugs >  > = What bugs?  I use it daily on several systems and haven't had : any problems.  Are you using the current version (found on% ftp.process.com, among other places)?    Hunter ------9 Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/  goathunter@goatley.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 20:23:16 GMT - From: Hamilton Company <hamco2@sbcglobal.net> - Subject: Ghostscript V8.11 Installation Error = Message-ID: <UY20d.13686$QJ3.6770@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>   D I am getting this error while trying to install Ghostscript. Please H advice on what I need to do. What I want to do is to be able to convert 7   postscript file to pdf. Here is the installation log:   E VAXC>PRODUCT INSTALL GHOSTSCRIPT/DESTINATION=SYS$COMMON:[GHOSTSCRIPT]   ( The following product has been selected:;      FREEWARE VAXVMS GHOSTSCRIPT V8.11      Layered Product    Do you want to continue? [YES]    Configuration phase starting ...  G You will be asked to choose options, if any, for each selected product   and for B any products that may be installed to satisfy software dependency 
 requirements.   K FREEWARE VAXVMS GHOSTSCRIPT V8.11: Postscript interpreter for OpenVMS Alpha   G      This package is freeware and comes with NO warranty, expressed or   implied.  D      Be sure to read the full license conditions in [.GS.DOC]PUBLIC.  / Do you want the defaults for all options? [YES]   .      Did you specify a value for /DESTINATION?  L      PCSI is designed to install software to the system disk and contains noI      provision for the software being installed to ask for any alternate   targetE      location.  The only mechanism currently available in PCSI is the H      /DESTINATION switch, which must be specfied as part of the PRODUCT  INSTALL 8      command, and the default destination is SYS$COMMON.  I      If you did not specify the /DESTINATION switch when you invoked this K      installation, it is recommended that you exit and re-issue the PRODUCT L      INSTALL command with a /DESTINATION specifying where you would like theE      [.GS...] directory tree to be installed (unless, of course, you  	 really do &      want it installed in SYS$COMMON).  #      Do you want to continue? [YES]   ' Do you want to review the options? [NO]    Execution phase starting ...  ( The following product will be installed:;      FREEWARE VAXVMS GHOSTSCRIPT V8.11      Layered Product    Portion done: 0%5 %PCSI-I-PRCOUTPUT, output from subprocess follows ... I %LINK-F-OPENIN, error opening SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]DECW$XMLIBSHR12.EXE; as   input  -RMS-E-FNF, file not found  G %PCSI-E-ASSEMERR, error assembling [GS.BIN]GS.EXE_VAX; status returned   from DCL follows* -LINK-F-OPENIN, error opening !AS as input" %PCSI-E-OPFAILED, operation failedE Terminating is strongly recommended.  Do you want to terminate? [YES] G %PCSI-E-CANCEL_WIP, termination resulted in an incomplete modification  
 to the system / %PCSI-E-S_OPCAN, operation cancelled by request ? %PCSIUI-E-ABORT, fatal error encountered - operation terminated  VAXC>    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 14:40:40 -0600 0 From: Mark Berryman <mark.berryman@mvb.saic.com>1 Subject: Re: Ghostscript V8.11 Installation Error ' Message-ID: <41405d59$1@cpns1.saic.com>    Hamilton Company wrote: F > I am getting this error while trying to install Ghostscript. Please J > advice on what I need to do. What I want to do is to be able to convert 8 >  postscript file to pdf. Here is the installation log: > G > VAXC>PRODUCT INSTALL GHOSTSCRIPT/DESTINATION=SYS$COMMON:[GHOSTSCRIPT]    [PCSI output snipped]    > Execution phase starting ... > * > The following product will be installed:< >     FREEWARE VAXVMS GHOSTSCRIPT V8.11      Layered Product >  > Portion done: 0%7 > %PCSI-I-PRCOUTPUT, output from subprocess follows ... K > %LINK-F-OPENIN, error opening SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]DECW$XMLIBSHR12.EXE; as   > input  > -RMS-E-FNF, file not found > I > %PCSI-E-ASSEMERR, error assembling [GS.BIN]GS.EXE_VAX; status returned   > from DCL follows, > -LINK-F-OPENIN, error opening !AS as input$ > %PCSI-E-OPFAILED, operation failed [remainder snipped]   H Ghostscript requires a minimum of DECwindows V1.2.  What version do you I have installed on your VAX?  In fact, you should make sure that you have  > any DECwindows installed since many VAX sites tend to skip it.  
 Mark Berryman    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 20:51:04 GMT % From: Huan Phi <hamco2@sbcglobal.net> 1 Subject: Re: Ghostscript V8.11 Installation Error = Message-ID: <Ym30d.13693$QJ3.3072@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>    Mark Berryman wrote:   > Hamilton Company wrote:  > G >> I am getting this error while trying to install Ghostscript. Please  C >> advice on what I need to do. What I want to do is to be able to  A >> convert  postscript file to pdf. Here is the installation log:  >>H >> VAXC>PRODUCT INSTALL GHOSTSCRIPT/DESTINATION=SYS$COMMON:[GHOSTSCRIPT] >  >  > [PCSI output snipped]  >  >> Execution phase starting ...  >>+ >> The following product will be installed: = >>     FREEWARE VAXVMS GHOSTSCRIPT V8.11      Layered Product  >> >> Portion done: 0% 8 >> %PCSI-I-PRCOUTPUT, output from subprocess follows ...I >> %LINK-F-OPENIN, error opening SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]DECW$XMLIBSHR12.EXE;   >> as input  >> -RMS-E-FNF, file not found  >>J >> %PCSI-E-ASSEMERR, error assembling [GS.BIN]GS.EXE_VAX; status returned  >> from DCL follows - >> -LINK-F-OPENIN, error opening !AS as input % >> %PCSI-E-OPFAILED, operation failed  >  > [remainder snipped]  > J > Ghostscript requires a minimum of DECwindows V1.2.  What version do you K > have installed on your VAX?  In fact, you should make sure that you have  @ > any DECwindows installed since many VAX sites tend to skip it. >  > Mark Berryman H Thank you, Mark, for the quick response. I am sorry that I did not post @ our hardware and VMS version. We have VAX 4700 running VMS v7.1.G No, we do not DECwindows installed. Do I need to install DECwindows or  + is there another way to solve this problem?    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 23:13:03 -0600 0 From: Mark Berryman <mark.berryman@mvb.saic.com>1 Subject: Re: Ghostscript V8.11 Installation Error ' Message-ID: <4140d570$1@cpns1.saic.com>    Huan Phi wrote:  >  >  > Mark Berryman wrote: >  >> Hamilton Company wrote: >>H >>> I am getting this error while trying to install Ghostscript. Please D >>> advice on what I need to do. What I want to do is to be able to B >>> convert  postscript file to pdf. Here is the installation log: >>> I >>> VAXC>PRODUCT INSTALL GHOSTSCRIPT/DESTINATION=SYS$COMMON:[GHOSTSCRIPT]  >> >> >> >> [PCSI output snipped] >>  >>> Execution phase starting ... >>> , >>> The following product will be installed:> >>>     FREEWARE VAXVMS GHOSTSCRIPT V8.11      Layered Product >>>  >>> Portion done: 0%9 >>> %PCSI-I-PRCOUTPUT, output from subprocess follows ... J >>> %LINK-F-OPENIN, error opening SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]DECW$XMLIBSHR12.EXE;  >>> as input >>> -RMS-E-FNF, file not found >>> B >>> %PCSI-E-ASSEMERR, error assembling [GS.BIN]GS.EXE_VAX; status  >>> returned from DCL follows . >>> -LINK-F-OPENIN, error opening !AS as input& >>> %PCSI-E-OPFAILED, operation failed >> >> >> [remainder snipped] >>G >> Ghostscript requires a minimum of DECwindows V1.2.  What version do  G >> you have installed on your VAX?  In fact, you should make sure that  J >> you have any DECwindows installed since many VAX sites tend to skip it. >> >> Mark Berryman > J > Thank you, Mark, for the quick response. I am sorry that I did not post B > our hardware and VMS version. We have VAX 4700 running VMS v7.1.I > No, we do not DECwindows installed. Do I need to install DECwindows or  - > is there another way to solve this problem?   E You will need to install DECwindows.  The image will not link or run   without it.   
 Mark Berryman    ------------------------------   Date: 9 Sep 2004 18:31:43 -0700 1 From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski) ' Subject: Grace Hopper anniversary today = Message-ID: <857e9e41.0409091731.6c2d097a@posting.google.com>   D And for a timely note, you can find a photo of Grace Hopper in frontT of some DEC gear at http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/pers-us/uspers-h/g-hoppr4.htmF Today is the anniversary of Grace discovering the first computer "bug"< http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/h96000/h96566k.jpg   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Sep 2004 16:55:43 -0700 * From: hartsoot@ucs.orst.edu (Tom Hartsook)' Subject: Re: I need SMC  CD for Win2000 = Message-ID: <622ca779.0409091555.21fefd47@posting.google.com>   = If you know the magic incantation to break the spell, I would C appreciate it very much.  The HP drones would not listen to me.  We  have support on everything.  Tom   k clyde_poole@msn.com (Clyde Poole) wrote in message news:<dc56296.0409071048.1b6840b0@posting.google.com>...    > H > I believe if an SMC is on hardware support from HP, the upgrade to SMCC > version 4 (Windows 2000 plus the newer versions of the management 1 > software) is part of the maintenance agreement.    ------------------------------   Date: 9 Sep 2004 18:30:39 -0700 1 From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski) F Subject: I64 TDMS kits are now available for evaluation and field test= Message-ID: <857e9e41.0409091730.4747c58e@posting.google.com>    Dear Distribution lists,   D I thought you might be interested in yet another leap forward in theD I64 journey.  If you are interested in field testing I64 TDMS pleaseD contact Robert Sampson who also happens to be an OpenVMS Ambassador.   
 Warm Regards,  Sue     -----Original Message----- From: Sampson, Robert , Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 10:06 PMF Subject: I64 TDMS kits are now available for evaluation and field test   Dear HP OpenVMS Customer,   ? TDMS (Terminal Data Management System) Software for OpenVMS I64 B (a.k.a. I64 TDMS) is now available for evaluation and field test. E Please reply to me (mailto:RobertdotSampson@hp.com) if you would like C to obtain an evaluation software kit and temporary license key.  My C team's intent is to complete the field test and begin offering this F software for sale by January 2005, as licensing and support services. - We will continue to offer Alpha TDMS as well.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 15:49:01 -0700 ( From: Steven Schoch <schoch@spamcop.net> Subject: Installing VMS / Message-ID: <chqmna$2r0t$1@news.mainstreet.net>   A I used VMS about 15 years ago, but never installed it.  I'm just   experimenting.  I I got a copy of VMS 7.1 and installed in on my old DecStation 400 4/233.  H   That seemed to work ok, except I still need a license. (how long does 8 it take to get one after filling out the Hobbyist form?)  F So, then I got the hobbyist CD-ROM with version 7.3-1.  I boot it and  got this error:   H %SYSBOOT-F-FIRMWARE, Firmware ver. 6.6 is below the absolute minimum of H 6.7.  Please update your firmware to the recommended version 6.9, which D can be found on the firmware CD labeled: Alpha AXP Systems Firmware  Update 6.2.   I Is this the same firmware that I downloaded from the HP site?  I thought  E I already updated it, but then I ran a firmware cd from the 7.1 set.    Did that downgrade the firmware?   What is my next step?    --   Steve    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 20:00:25 -0500 @ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> Subject: Re: Installing VMS 6 Message-ID: <4140FCA9.9D8F47C1@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   Steven Schoch wrote: > B > I used VMS about 15 years ago, but never installed it.  I'm just > experimenting. > J > I got a copy of VMS 7.1 and installed in on my old DecStation 400 4/233.I >   That seemed to work ok, except I still need a license. (how long does : > it take to get one after filling out the Hobbyist form?)  G It's mostly automated. You should get turn-around within ten minutes or  so.   G > So, then I got the hobbyist CD-ROM with version 7.3-1.  I boot it and  > got this error:  > I > %SYSBOOT-F-FIRMWARE, Firmware ver. 6.6 is below the absolute minimum of I > 6.7.  Please update your firmware to the recommended version 6.9, which E > can be found on the firmware CD labeled: Alpha AXP Systems Firmware 
 > Update 6.2.  > J > Is this the same firmware that I downloaded from the HP site?  I thoughtF > I already updated it, but then I ran a firmware cd from the 7.1 set." > Did that downgrade the firmware?  ? No, but it likely did not include the version needed by V7.3-1.    > What is my next step?   < Dig around in the AlphaServers area of hp.com and you shouldD (eventually*) find a CD image of the current firmware CD. You didn'tE mention which Alpha machine you have, so that's the best I can do for  now.  H *: Finding stuff there is royal pain. They're conducting on-line surveysB about it. Maybe they should just use the site themselves, or watchE someone actually trying to find something not knowing where to begin.    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 20:28:04 -0400 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>E Subject: Re: Itanic Adoption Survey from 23-August-2004 Computerworld ( Message-ID: <4140F514.203@tsoft-inc.com>   John Smith wrote:    > Tom Adams wrote: > @ >>koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote in9 >>message news:<RGnxz2uw4ye1@eisner.encompasserve.org>...  >>@ >>>In article <ea44f5a1.0409080525.61494fbf@posting.google.com>,* >>>tadamsmar@yahoo.com (Tom Adams) writes: >>> B >>>>I did see somewhere that HP is expecting most users to migrateE >>>>before 2007.  But the survey seems to indicate that most have not 8 >>>>started planning, so the migrations could run later. >>>>? >>>   I know of shops that plan to keep right on running VAXen.  >>> G >>I guess we might end up running Alphas for a long.  I am not sure its 1 >>a good option for us.  I think we will migrate.  >>G >>I was pricing Alphas (400s, DS10S) in the aftermarket from early 2003 E >>till recently.  These low end Alphas seemed to be more available in = >>early 2003.  The market seemed a lot tighter by early 2004.  >> >  > M > Don't kid yourself....HP will be ratcheting the Alphaserver production line H > to a close, most likely creating shortages in certain product lines asI > similarly equivalent (in HP's eyes) Itanic-based systems are brought to 	 > market.  > M > It won't occur to HP that the customer base will continue to need those new N > Alpha's for at least 2 years after their apps may become available on ItanicM > in order to satify themselves that the 'ported' Itanic apps behave the same G > as the Alpha apps and that the IT guys have sufficient time to become L > comfortable with the new stuff before any migration off Alpha begins. ThatH > and the need to accomodate user/processing growth during the migration	 > period.     K If any of the idiots involved over the last 6+ years gave a damn about the  Q customers VAXs and Alphas would continue to be sold as long as there is customer   demand.   F Maybe Microsoft wasn't first with "You'll go where we want you to go".   Dave   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 14:46:24 -0400 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>. Subject: Re: Itanium not meeting Intel's goals, Message-ID: <4140A500.5040702@tsoft-inc.com>   John Smith wrote:    > David J Dachtera wrote:  >  >>JF Mezei wrote:  >>N > http://news.com.com/Itanium+not+meeting+Intel%27s+goals/2100-1010_3-5349588. > html?tag=nefd.top  > D >>>Will not quote the whole article here. It is a comment made by an? >>>Intel exec during the dveelopper forum, but refers mostly to D >>>short/medium term goals, but IA64 is still on track for long termE >>>goals even though those goals were downscaled from total dominance  >>>of the market.  >>> E >>>The 64 bit 8086 has also thrown the IA64 folks off track with XEON ? >>>now offering serious competition to IA64, relegating IA64 to 7 >>>combatting only Sparc and Power in high end systems.  >>> G >>Y'know, I was pondering this today and had a chill run down my spine.  >>Consider:  >>G >>There's another a thread that mentions an article indicating that the / >>last Alpha chips are coming off the FABs now.  >>C >>Compaq was pushing NT/Alpha like crazy just before the Alphacide.  >>H >>hp is "pushing" VMS (in so far as it ever has) right now. With all dueG >>respect to Sue, perhaps even she is being led down the primrose path.  >>G >>Intel appears to be suggesting that Itanic may be sinking faster than * >>we first thought, or ever dared suggest. >>F >>OVMS-IA32 and OVMS-x86/64 are both viewed as non-doable (for reasonsG >>known only to VMS, the rest of the market seems to disagree - tacitly @ >>- by fully embracing those technologies). That leaves VMS with9 >>potentially no path forward and certainly no path back.  >> >  >  >  > see N > http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1738&ncid=1208&e=8&u=/zd/200 > 40908/tc_zd/134847 >  > $ > Chip Race Is On Between Intel, IBM >  > Wed Sep 8, 8:11 AM ET  > Mark Hachman - eWEEK > H > SAN FRANCISCO-The enterprise processor contest is now a two-horse raceF > between IBM and Intel Corp., Intel's enterprise platforms chief said
 > Tuesday. > F > In a briefing with reporters at the Intel Developer Forum here, AbhiK > Talwalkar, vice president of Intel's Enterprise Platforms Group, in Santa N > Clara, Calif., said in the future only IBM's Power5 architecture and Intel'sG > family of processors will be battling for OEM sockets. Talwalkar also K > admitted in a question-and-answer session earlier in the day that Intel's C > Itanium sales have not met "aggressive" internal sales forecasts.     4 Have they even come close to their worse nightmares?    M > Sun Microsystems Inc. isn't even a contender in the race, he said. "Most of F > you watching Sun will appreciate where Sun is going from a long-termJ > standpoint," Talwalkar said, apparently referring to Sun's collaborationE > with Fujitsu Ltd. on the future development of the SPARC processor.     N Typical self serving bullshit.  If the product is viable and competitive, why = would Fujitsu being involved keep Sun from being in the game?     N > While Intel has fared well in the low-end server segment, RISC architecturesM > continue to dominate servers selling for more than $25,000, said Talwalkar, E > who added that legacy applications have tied IT administrators into , > supporting the so-called "legacy systems." > J > "Power5 is a very competitive platform to Itanium 2," he said, primarilyH > because of its multicore architecture. Intel executives demonstrated aL > dual-core "Montecito" Itanium processor here on Tuesday, a processor Intel > will launch next year.    O It's not just multi-cores.  It's just a much faster and better CPU.  IBM could  O claim that Intel isn't in the game either, both from a performance standpoint,   and a sales volume standpoint.  0 Wonder if Alpha is still out-selling the itanic?    N > Talwalkar also said Tuesday that the company has not been happy with ItaniumG > sales, although he quickly qualified the statement. In a Q&A session,iM > Talwalkar was asked if the Itanium should be considered a failure. Although K > he said it is not a failure, he added: "Are we meeting system-level goalsr? > for this year? No, not at the aggressive levels that we set."  > L > The company, however, is satisfied with the "types" of customers that have6 > chosen to buy the Itanium processor, Talwalkar said. >  What the hell does THAT mean?l > J > ....kinda reminds me of the denials by the Iraqi Minister of Information5 > about the presence of US troops outside Baghdad....   D That's what marketing does, when it doesn't have anything to market.     Dave   -- o4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin RoadV Vanderbilt, PA  15486u   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 15:02:02 -0500/ From: "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com>a. Subject: RE: Itanium not meeting Intel's goalsT Message-ID: <DA4AD590CAF06845B671C398333A89C604158E33@ohms.electric.ci.austin.tx.us>   <snip> f: > It's not just multi-cores.  It's just a much faster and  > better CPU.  IBM could i9 > claim that Intel isn't in the game either, both from a a > performance standpoint,   > and a sales volume standpoint. > E  Very true...I attended a Power5 presentation today and the slides onoD performance comparison were very impressive.  Eight-way Power5 boxesB outperforming sixteen-way Itanium2.  More performance less cost.     EdE **Please apply a generous amount of all the usual disclaimers here.**c   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 13:13:55 -0700* From: "Jack Peacock" <peacock@simconv.com>. Subject: Re: Itanium not meeting Intel's goals2 Message-ID: <n96dnSGUBNgZJN3cRVn-hw@mpowercom.net>  @ "David J Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote in message % news:413FBCBC.E893A23A@comcast.net... F > OVMS-IA32 and OVMS-x86/64 are both viewed as non-doable (for reasonsI > known only to VMS, the rest of the market seems to disagree - tacitly -rJ > by fully embracing those technologies). That leaves VMS with potentially- > no path forward and certainly no path back.  > I I suspect that co-op Itanium funding from Intel may be what has kept VMS nK alive at HP for this long.  Unable to compete in the x86 server market the uK Itanium has to survive by taking over whatever is left of the VMS customer  I base.  Without the backing from Intel an x86 VMS might have the opposite  H efect of killing off VMS because there is no deep pocket sponsor for it.  G HP must be getting some kind of Dell-like price breaks on x86 parts in -I return for their Itanium support.  It's ironic that VMS may well be kept ,? alive by HP in order to maintain market share in Win x86 boxes.a   Jack Peacock c   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 20:51:12 -0400' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> . Subject: RE: Itanium not meeting Intel's goalsR Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB45CD3A@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----4 > From: Jack Peacock [mailto:peacock@simconv.com]=20! > Sent: September 9, 2004 4:14 PMp > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 0 > Subject: Re: Itanium not meeting Intel's goals >=20D > "David J Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote in message=20' > news:413FBCBC.E893A23A@comcast.net...0H > > OVMS-IA32 and OVMS-x86/64 are both viewed as non-doable (for reasonsB > > known only to VMS, the rest of the market seems to disagree=20
 > - tacitly -$> > > by fully embracing those technologies). That leaves VMS=20 > with potentially/ > > no path forward and certainly no path back.  > >p@ > I suspect that co-op Itanium funding from Intel may be what=20 > has kept VMS=20e= > alive at HP for this long.  Unable to compete in the x86=20  > server market the=20B > Itanium has to survive by taking over whatever is left of the=20 > VMS customer=20-@ > base.  Without the backing from Intel an x86 VMS might have=20 > the opposite=20m= > efect of killing off VMS because there is no deep pocket=202 > sponsor for it.e >=20B > HP must be getting some kind of Dell-like price breaks on x86=20
 > parts in=20o@ > return for their Itanium support.  It's ironic that VMS may=20 > well be kept=20tA > alive by HP in order to maintain market share in Win x86 boxes.t >   Jack Peacock=20f >=20 >=20      Yeah, you are probably right.=20  E Small deals like the following likely do not impress anyone at HP eh?i  E http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/2004/040324a.html  (March 24,a 2004)dC "HP awarded $784 Million Services Contract by Department of Veteran  Affairs"  H "..snip] HP has been an infrastructure, consulting and services providerC to the VA since 1983 through its work on the Decentralized HospitalcD Computer Program (DHCP) and Enhanced Decentralized Hospital ComputerE Program (EDHCP) contracts. Over time, HP and the VA have collaborated-> closely to continually evolve the VA's IT environment and haveE successfully deployed HP's OpenVMS clusters on AlphaServer systems to F build an adaptive environment that has increased performance, utilizesH 64-bit architecture and has enhanced reliability and up-time. As part ofB this latest agreement, HP takes responsibility for maintenance andF support for all hardware and software products that comprise the VistA
 solution."       Regards2  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477b kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  $ "OpenVMS has always had integrity .. Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .."   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 19:46:10 -0500e@ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>. Subject: Re: Itanium not meeting Intel's goals6 Message-ID: <4140F952.B73609C4@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   John Smith wrote:h > [snip]L > The company, however, is satisfied with the "types" of customers that have6 > chosen to buy the Itanium processor, Talwalkar said.  D Y'know, I have a problem with that guy's name - sounds too much like: "tally-whacker". Gotta wonder who's "pullin' our chain"...   -- l David J. Dachterae dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 22:48:38 -0400# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>t. Subject: Re: Itanium not meeting Intel's goals, Message-ID: <zO-dnS6Q7OSZi9zcRVn-jg@igs.net>   Main, Kerry wrote: >> -----Original Message-----S2 >> From: Jack Peacock [mailto:peacock@simconv.com]" >> Sent: September 9, 2004 4:14 PM >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com1 >> Subject: Re: Itanium not meeting Intel's goalsn >>B >> "David J Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote in message( >> news:413FBCBC.E893A23A@comcast.net...H >>> OVMS-IA32 and OVMS-x86/64 are both viewed as non-doable (for reasons? >>> known only to VMS, the rest of the market seems to disagreer >> - tacitly -; >>> by fully embracing those technologies). That leaves VMS3 >> with potentiallyy/ >>> no path forward and certainly no path back.a >>>n> >> I suspect that co-op Itanium funding from Intel may be what >> has kept VMSn; >> alive at HP for this long.  Unable to compete in the x86C >> server market the@ >> Itanium has to survive by taking over whatever is left of the >> VMS customer > >> base.  Without the backing from Intel an x86 VMS might have >> the opposite ; >> efect of killing off VMS because there is no deep pocketn >> sponsor for it. >>@ >> HP must be getting some kind of Dell-like price breaks on x86 >> parts iny> >> return for their Itanium support.  It's ironic that VMS may >> well be kepteB >> alive by HP in order to maintain market share in Win x86 boxes. >>   Jack Peacockl >> >> >  >j > Yeah, you are probably right.u >gG > Small deals like the following likely do not impress anyone at HP eh?t > G > http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/2004/040324a.html  (March 24,  > 2004)NE > "HP awarded $784 Million Services Contract by Department of Veterand
 > Affairs" >sA > "..snip] HP has been an infrastructure, consulting and serviceshE > provider to the VA since 1983 through its work on the DecentralizedLF > Hospital Computer Program (DHCP) and Enhanced Decentralized HospitalC > Computer Program (EDHCP) contracts. Over time, HP and the VA havemD > collaborated closely to continually evolve the VA's IT environmentE > and have successfully deployed HP's OpenVMS clusters on AlphaServerd= > systems to build an adaptive environment that has increasedo< > performance, utilizes 64-bit architecture and has enhancedE > reliability and up-time. As part of this latest agreement, HP takeskA > responsibility for maintenance and support for all hardware and 6 > software products that comprise the VistA solution."       Kerry,  F Name a few similarly sized deals (or even an order of magnitude or twoH smaller) where OpenVMS was sold to a *new* customer since June 25, 2001.  L Name a few similarly sized *new* customers who have been chomping at the bit' to get their hands on Itanic *and* VMS..   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 01:16:29 -0400n' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com>t. Subject: RE: Itanium not meeting Intel's goalsR Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB45CD4E@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message------ > From: John Smith [mailto:a@nonymous.com]=20f" > Sent: September 9, 2004 10:49 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com-0 > Subject: Re: Itanium not meeting Intel's goals >=20   [snip ]r   >=20 > Kerry, >=20H > Name a few similarly sized deals (or even an order of magnitude or two> > smaller) where OpenVMS was sold to a *new* customer since=20 > June 25, 2001. >=20 >=20   John,=20  H Since you are a Financial services guy - How about 2 new Exchanges. As IB know you know, both Customers in this space require very long lifeD platform expectancies. Both are new to OpenVMS and both signed after8 June 25, 2001: (OM is great partner and doing very well)  D http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=3D04/01/22/7074154 (January 22,2004)  E Singapore Exchange, Ltd. (SGX) has chosen the OM CLICK XT marketplace?C solution running in the HP OpenVMS environment to power the world's / first fully integrated exchange trading engine.s  G The new trading engine, known as the SGX Quotation and Execution SystemeC for Trading (SGX Quest), will support all trading, from traditionalLF securities and derivatives to advanced cross-border trades. SGX, whichF expects to spend S$16 million to implement the new trading engine overD the next year, selected OM's high-performance marketplace technologyH running on the OpenVMS operating system following a rigorous analysis of several trading technologies.   H http://domino.omgroup.com/www/ombulletinboard.nsf/21d74cf5a8def809c1256a; d200411a1f/baf61a6443a19e6480256c6f00524aa2!OpenDocument=20a    "Press Release 25th October 2002  @ Korea Futures Exchange completes successful trial with OM and HP  = October 25, 2002: OM, a world leading provider of transactionM@ technology, and Korea Futures Exchange (KOFEX) have successfullyD completed trials of expanding KOFEX's central systems powered by OM.F KOFEX has been an OM customer since 1999, using OM's CLICK(tm) trading4 platform and SECUR(tm) clearing platform solutions."     >nF > Name a few similarly sized *new* customers who have been chomping at the bita) > to get their hands on Itanic *and* VMS.a >=20  F Well, considering its not even officially released for prod yet, don'tB you think the question is a little pre-mature?  Also, like any newF platform, it will take some time - exactly like what happened with the VAX to Alpha migration.=20  B However, here is some ISV updates (again remember its still beta):< http://h71000.www7.hp.com/solutions/matrix/i64partner_A.html   Regardss  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660' Fax: 613-591-4477o kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  $ "OpenVMS has always had integrity .. Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .."   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 22:46:47 GMTi1 From: Keith Parris <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com>r. Subject: Re: Maximum distance for VMS clusters3 Message-ID: <r350d.10239$%M5.2500@news.cpqcorp.net>k   Kenneth Farmer wrote: ( > From: Dennis Majikas, Digital Networks ...l5 > Beyond that, there is actual mention of VMS cluster - > data replication extending to 60,000 miles:$) > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/availability/   B This was a test of the successful operation of HBVS with a remote E shadowset member accessed over a FCIP SAN extension of that distance -= (simulated by latency), not a VMS cluster over that distance.l  G I've operated a mission-critical production cluster with an inter-site D! circuit path length of 252 miles.   H I'm told there exists a disaster-tolerant VMS cluster in an undisclosed 4 location with an inter-site distance of 3,000 miles.  H Some customers (particularly in the NYC area after 9/11) are now asking @ for official support of longer inter-site distances for OpenVMS H clusters. But the supported limit is still 500 miles at present. If you C have a need for support of longer distances, talk with the OpenVMS  D Cluster Product Manager, Andy Schneider (firstname.lastname@hp.com).   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Sep 2004 18:51:03 -0500t- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)1. Subject: Re: Maximum distance for VMS clusters3 Message-ID: <dQryOvSuXAFo@eisner.encompasserve.org>r  g In article <r350d.10239$%M5.2500@news.cpqcorp.net>, Keith Parris <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> writes:o  J > I'm told there exists a disaster-tolerant VMS cluster in an undisclosed 6 > location with an inter-site distance of 3,000 miles.  B You will not change my vote by hinting that Dick Cheney uses VMS !   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 20:37:38 -0400# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>s. Subject: Re: Maximum distance for VMS clusters, Message-ID: <95adnaR2E-TMat3cRVn-uQ@igs.net>   Keith Parris wrote:n > Kenneth Farmer wrote: ) >> From: Dennis Majikas, Digital Networksp > ...p6 >> Beyond that, there is actual mention of VMS cluster. >> data replication extending to 60,000 miles:* >> http://h71000.www7.hp.com/availability/ > C > This was a test of the successful operation of HBVS with a remotetF > shadowset member accessed over a FCIP SAN extension of that distance? > (simulated by latency), not a VMS cluster over that distance.n >oH > I've operated a mission-critical production cluster with an inter-site# > circuit path length of 252 miles.m >a= > I'm told there exists a disaster-tolerant VMS cluster in antB > undisclosed location with an inter-site distance of 3,000 miles. >aB > Some customers (particularly in the NYC area after 9/11) are nowH > asking for official support of longer inter-site distances for OpenVMSE > clusters. But the supported limit is still 500 miles at present. IfAH > you have a need for support of longer distances, talk with the OpenVMSF > Cluster Product Manager, Andy Schneider (firstname.lastname@hp.com).    K Anyone in the area potential affected  by the sub-Missouri New Madrid faultSH (roughly a 500 mile radius as I recall) might want to have clusters with longer supported distances.   K I can just see it now....hurricane roars up through Lousiana, takes out one G data center at the same time as a tornado in Texas takes out the other,.G while the New Madrid fault slips and kills the quorum site in St. Louis    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 21:39:08 -0400i2 From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com>. Subject: Re: Maximum distance for VMS clusters. Message-ID: <4140CD7C.28409.7E6F747@localhost>  ) On 9 Sep 2004 at 20:37, John Smith wrote:tE > I can just see it now....hurricane roars up through Lousiana, takeslF > out one data center at the same time as a tornado in Texas takes outG > the other, while the New Madrid fault slips and kills the quorum sitea > in St. Louis  5 There are just some things you can't protect against.1  C BUT you can kill a mission-critical Windows system with any one of c! these.  VMS requires all three...o    
 --Stan QuayleD Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------- Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363 3 8572 North Spring Ct., Pickerington, OH  43147  USAe0 stan-at-stanq-dot-com       http://www.stanq.com   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 22:15:18 -0400# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>I. Subject: Re: Maximum distance for VMS clusters, Message-ID: <X_SdnXda5uapk9zcRVn-tQ@igs.net>   Stanley F. Quayle wrote:+ > On 9 Sep 2004 at 20:37, John Smith wrote:XF >> I can just see it now....hurricane roars up through Lousiana, takesG >> out one data center at the same time as a tornado in Texas takes outrH >> the other, while the New Madrid fault slips and kills the quorum site >> in St. Louisf >d7 > There are just some things you can't protect against._ >;D > BUT you can kill a mission-critical Windows system with any one of# > these.  VMS requires all three...p    D Forgot to throw in those pesky North Koreans, whose inbound missilesI luanched during the Louisiana hurricane sailed merrily past an unworkabletK missile defense system (just to add a plausible (to some) man-made event toA the mix)   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 14:34:39 -0400* From: "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca>' Subject: Re: Sending mail via dbl-cobol:3 Message-ID: <4i10d.2210$KF.17546@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>Y  0 I don't have the exact answer to your questions.    L I do not remember sending mail to addresses like smtp%"username@company.com"L using those routines. It must be tried. If I have a moment I can test it (no warranty here!).@ That should work though, as you can do it from the MAIL utility.  I What I know for sure is that you can have distribution lists that will doYE the trick, or else have a cuser account where mail is redirected (SETiF FORWARD in MAIL utility) to an Internet address. But I would try first sending directly to SMTP%...  K As for UCX, I don't have it (running Multinet) but that should be somethingP like $ UCX START SMTP3 Now, to configure the service, lookup help from UCXC   HTHS   -- E SyltremH   OpenVMS 7.3-1 + Oracle 8.1.7.4H http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS related web site, en franais)% ---zulu is not in my email address---CH "Ste /aka=Stardust" <stefores@toglimi.tin.it> a crit dans le message de2 news:u1n0k055u5m4r0svsg362l6h0f7q9v7ktq@4ax.com...7 > Thanks for the answer, but I have other questions :-).0 > The system is OpenVMS 7.2-1 running on a ES40.F > When you say "just enable the SMTP service", do you mean that i needD > the TCPIP$SMTP_*.EXE to be loaded? (I saw there is a batch file to > make those run).G > I also need a mailbox to be configured locally on the openvms system?vD > In Compaq doc's I read "The callable interface of the Mail utilityG > (MAIL) lets you send messages to users on your system or on any otheroG > computer connected to your system with DECnet". This mean I must send G > message to a local mail server on the same network (configuring node)u8 > because I can't send message directly to the internet? > TIA again, >p >. >c >m. > Il Thu, 9 Sep 2004 09:17:20 -0400, "Syltrem"( > <syltremzulu@videotron.ca> ha scritto: >>E > >Look up the OpenVMS utility routines manual, specifially the MAIL$ 	 routines.o > >MAIL$SEND_BEGIN,W > >MAIL$SEND_ADD_ATTRIBUTE,e > >MAIL$SEND_ADD_BODYPART, > >MAIL$SEND_ADD_ADDRESS,i > >MAIL$SEND_MESSAGE,  > >MAIL$SEND_END,S > >GJ > >Everything you need is there. If you send through SMTP, just enable the SMTP) > >service in UCX/TCPIP/MULTINET/WHATEVER  > > @ > >You can call those from any language you have a compiler for. > >H > >HTH >8 > Ste /aka=Stardustu > --@ > Non c' cattivo pi cattivo di un buono quando diventa CATTIVO   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Sep 2004 18:26:51 -0700L1 From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski)FI Subject: Sent out this updated information today to my distribution lists.= Message-ID: <857e9e41.0409091726.7f8fc003@posting.google.com>P   Dear Distribution lists,  . This is my last email for the day I promise.    F You may also want to take a look at www.OpenVMS.org there are a numberF of new articles, there is a good one written by Bob Gezelter about his take on HP World.e  E Also a number of you have sent email asking about partners porting toeF Itanium. The number grows daily, but there is an external web site off of the VMS Home pageR "http://www.hp.com/products1/evolution/alpha_retaintrust/openvms/partners.html"seeC where it says "click here" do that make sure you see the little a-zC' and click on the letter of your choice.o  
 Warm Regards,  Sueo   Indexe   1. New Golden EggsE 2. VERITAS Netbackup for OpenVMS (in case anyone is wondering Veritas  means truth in Latin)-% 3. ComputerWorld Article from Canada 0 4. Wikipedia definition@  @ Many thanks to Matti Pattari for volunteering to do all the workD involved in creating all the different golden eggs and to Ken Farmer for posting.  B NEW GOLDEN EGGS - The Golden Eggs Hatchery maid has been extremelyD happy and active at Ken's Farm. The basket is full of new warm Eggs.D You are welcome to feel the Golden Warm glowing in the basket. Touch6 this: http://www.openvms.org/pages.php?page=GoldenEggs  : __________________________________________________________  F The VERITAS Netbackup OpenVMS 5.0 MP1 Release - Many thanks to OpenVMS$ Ambassador Kerry Main for forwarding  @ The downloadable 5.0 MP1 (Maintenance Pack One) upgrade release ? is now available for both VAX and Alpha. This release supports i= 5.0 and 5.1 MP1 master and media servers (UNIX and Windows). s  7 Full release notes are available from VERITAS support:-P  J ftp://ftp.emea.support.veritas.com/pub/support/Products/NetBackup_OpenVMS/     nbu_v5_0_vms_pdf.zip  = _____________________________________________________________o    E ComputerWorld Article from Canada - mentions OpenVMS - Many thanks tos, OpenVMS champion Randy Baker for forwarding.  i http://www.itworldcanada.com/Pages/Docbase/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=idgml-a460d5c2-df68-46a1-8302-2a3b0dff76c7i  C He said OpenVMS has already been ported to Itanium; the developer'seC version is currently available while the production version will be ! ready to ship by the end of 2004.u@ ________________________________________________________________  @ Wikipedia definition of VMS, thanks to Paul Sture on comp.os.vms  2 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_Memory_System  @ ________________________________________________________________   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Sep 2004 15:28:50 -07000( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)Y Subject: Re: Status of PL/I on Itanium (Was: Re: Canada's Equitable Life begins         ma= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0409091428.2641410b@posting.google.com>n  d "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message news:<NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECICEEKDMAA.tom@kednos.com>...G > We are planning to start a port in Q1 2005 and expect to take 6 to 9 kE > months to get to a field test version.  These plans could change ifg9 > HP drops Itanium.  Bart, what is your interest in PL/I?   : and what makes you think HP is going to drop itanium after7 commiting all their os's to it?  That would be suicide!e   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 20:31:22 -0400# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>$Y Subject: Re: Status of PL/I on Itanium (Was: Re: Canada's Equitable Life begins         m , Message-ID: <95adnaV2E-TMat3cRVn-uQ@igs.net>   Bob Ceculski wrote: 0 > "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message7 > news:<NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECICEEKDMAA.tom@kednos.com>...tG >> We are planning to start a port in Q1 2005 and expect to take 6 to 9tF >> months to get to a field test version.  These plans could change if: >> HP drops Itanium.  Bart, what is your interest in PL/I? >e< > and what makes you think HP is going to drop itanium after9 > commiting all their os's to it?  That would be suicide!a    F Not any more costly to sales than announcing the end of Alpha for some half-baked Intel cpu.m   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 19:02:38 -0700# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>wY Subject: RE: Status of PL/I on Itanium (Was: Re: Canada's Equitable Life begins         m-9 Message-ID: <NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECIKEFKDMAA.tom@kednos.com>d   < -----Original Message-----1 < From: Bob Ceculski [mailto:bob@instantwhip.com] , < Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 3:29 PM < To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComtJ < Subject: Re: Status of PL/I on Itanium (Was: Re: Canada's Equitable Life < begins moving off VMS) <  < 1 < "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message  7 < news:<NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECICEEKDMAA.tom@kednos.com>...eI < > We are planning to start a port in Q1 2005 and expect to take 6 to 9 bG < > months to get to a field test version.  These plans could change ift; < > HP drops Itanium.  Bart, what is your interest in PL/I?w < < < and what makes you think HP is going to drop itanium after9 < commiting all their os's to it?  That would be suicide!n? Because I follow the industry and have been arounf for a while.v <  < --- ( < Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.< < Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).B < Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 8/19/2004 <  ---l& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 8/19/2004   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 19:50:01 -0500.@ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>Y Subject: Re: Status of PL/I on Itanium (Was: Re: Canada's Equitable Life begins         mo6 Message-ID: <4140FA39.D0C2027C@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   Bob Ceculski wrote:r > f > "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message news:<NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECICEEKDMAA.tom@kednos.com>...H > > We are planning to start a port in Q1 2005 and expect to take 6 to 9G > > months to get to a field test version.  These plans could change ifg; > > HP drops Itanium.  Bart, what is your interest in PL/I?- > < > and what makes you think HP is going to drop itanium after9 > commiting all their os's to it?  That would be suicide!r   ...and your point is ...?t   --   David J. DachteraF dba DJE Systems. http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/K   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 16:09:34 -0400, From: "warren sander" <warren.sander@hp.com>Y Subject: Re: Status of PL/I on Itanium (Was: Re: Canada's Equitable Life begins moving of * Message-ID: <4140b8c7@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  , From the OpenVMS Application Status report -@ http://h71000.www7.hp.com/solutions/matrix/i64application_p.html  7 Kednos - PL/I for OpenVMS (1Q05) http://www.kednos.com/p   -warren     2 "Bart Zorn" <Bart.Zorn@xs4all.nl> wrote in message7 news:a98cd882.0409090326.676f8266@posting.google.com...d0 > "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message5 news:<NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECICEEHDMAA.tom@kednos.com>...r  > > < -----Original Message----- >s >    [ S n i p ... ] >o1 > > < So what's the status of PL/1 on Itanic/VMS?e > >a > > Nothing new report > 4 > I would not mind if you repeat the current status! >n > Bart Zornr   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 20:06:52 -0500i@ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>! Subject: Stray Symbiont Processesk6 Message-ID: <4140FE2C.7CBDC0EF@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>  H Has anyone else seen this: "orphan" symbiont processes. I have 171 printF queues, and I've seen as many as 233 symbiont processes (no wonder I'm running out of process slots!).e  ? I put in the recommended patch kits for STREAMSYMB and the SMTPt# symbiont, but still getting strays.t   Anyone else seen this?   VMS Alpha V7.3 e Mnet V4.3 Rev A-X ! Alpha 2100 2GB RAM, 3 300MHz CPUsg App is Classic Radneta   --   David J. Dachteray dba DJE Systemsv http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/s   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 15:40:31 -0400t- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>a# Subject: Suggestion for file system , Message-ID: <4140B1A9.4E772984@teksavvy.com>  K When you consider the various servers on VMS systems which generate, out ofd; security necessity, large log files, here is my suggestion:   F File system has both a start of file offset and an end of file offset.  K This way, one could take a log file, release a whole bunch of blocks at theIM start of file, and have the file header point to the new first block with the > offset into that block pointing to the new first "record/byte"  I This would allow constantly evolving files without the need to constantly H manage log file names and switch log files etc etc. (as well as log fileJ version checking when log files do get close to the 32xxxx limit.) Since a8 single log file could live on for a very very long time.   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Sep 2004 13:01:24 -0500d- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) ) Subject: TSM won't accept my circuit name63 Message-ID: <xZXXNbz+YQFy@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ? I am having trouble specifying a circuit under TSM V2.1 runninga, under Alpha VMS V7.3 on an AlphaStation 250.  1 The AlphaStation is not seeing the DECserver 200.   5 TSM says it is expecting to find it on circuit SVA-0.t  4 NCP says the known circuit on this machine is EWA-0.   The commandm  $ 	TSM SET SERVER <name> CIRCUIT EWA-0   yields the responsec  ; 	%TSM-E-INVALID_CIRCUIT, UNA-n, QNA-n, BNA-n, SVA-n, MNA-n, / 		ISA-n, KFE-n, MFA-n, FZA-n, or MXE-n expected>   Can anyone offer suggestions ?   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 18:04:37 GMTg" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG- Subject: Re: TSM won't accept my circuit name.0 Message-ID: <00A379FE.6DB4C82E@SendSpamHere.ORG>  c In article <xZXXNbz+YQFy@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:>@ >I am having trouble specifying a circuit under TSM V2.1 running- >under Alpha VMS V7.3 on an AlphaStation 250.t >a2 >The AlphaStation is not seeing the DECserver 200. >.6 >TSM says it is expecting to find it on circuit SVA-0. >05 >NCP says the known circuit on this machine is EWA-0., >M >The command >,% >	TSM SET SERVER <name> CIRCUIT EWA-0  >  >yields the response >i< >	%TSM-E-INVALID_CIRCUIT, UNA-n, QNA-n, BNA-n, SVA-n, MNA-n,0 >		ISA-n, KFE-n, MFA-n, FZA-n, or MXE-n expected >d >Can anyone offer suggestions ?   ? Looks like TSM hasn't been updated to accept newer devices like,	 EW or EI.d   -- I< http://www.ProvN.com  for the *best* OpenVMS system security=                       solutions that others only claim to be.  -- i, Cyber-Terrorism (si'-ber tayr'-or-iz-em) n.:M   The release of, the sale of, or the use of any Micro$oft software product! e -- tK VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMs   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 11:50:26 -0700i From: JBloggs@acme.com- Subject: Re: TSM won't accept my circuit name 8 Message-ID: <pb91k0p22k7b3ei0lb36kfcu3s9d6j4fbs@4ax.com>  E On 9 Sep 2004 13:01:24 -0500, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)s wrote:  @ >I am having trouble specifying a circuit under TSM V2.1 running- >under Alpha VMS V7.3 on an AlphaStation 250.  >t2 >The AlphaStation is not seeing the DECserver 200. >s6 >TSM says it is expecting to find it on circuit SVA-0. >h5 >NCP says the known circuit on this machine is EWA-0.  >C >The command > % >	TSM SET SERVER <name> CIRCUIT EWA-0r >r >yields the response >a< >	%TSM-E-INVALID_CIRCUIT, UNA-n, QNA-n, BNA-n, SVA-n, MNA-n,0 >		ISA-n, KFE-n, MFA-n, FZA-n, or MXE-n expected >s >Can anyone offer suggestions ?   + Google on TSM$SERVICE_CIRCUITS, tsmeco07021i  7 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/docs/tsm_on_alpha.htmlu  G http://h18003.www1.hp.com/support/digital_networks_archive/servers/tsm/s   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 14:51:35 -0400o( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>- Subject: Re: TSM won't accept my circuit name , Message-ID: <4140A637.4090401@tsoft-inc.com>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:  A > I am having trouble specifying a circuit under TSM V2.1 running . > under Alpha VMS V7.3 on an AlphaStation 250. > 3 > The AlphaStation is not seeing the DECserver 200.y > 7 > TSM says it is expecting to find it on circuit SVA-0.  > 6 > NCP says the known circuit on this machine is EWA-0. > 
 > The command  > & > 	TSM SET SERVER <name> CIRCUIT EWA-0 >  > yields the responses > = > 	%TSM-E-INVALID_CIRCUIT, UNA-n, QNA-n, BNA-n, SVA-n, MNA-n,o1 > 		ISA-n, KFE-n, MFA-n, FZA-n, or MXE-n expecteds >   > Can anyone offer suggestions ? >   K Well, as Brian has already commented, the rather obvious reason is TSM not i$ knowing about EWA types of circuits.  ; But you wanted a fix, probably already knowing the problem.   Q Just a wild ass guess, but would logical names work at this level?  Be simple to m try.  7 Has the TSM sources been made public?  On the freeware?    Dave   -- a4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road- Vanderbilt, PA  154860   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 19:51:40 GMTc" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG- Subject: Re: TSM won't accept my circuit name80 Message-ID: <00A37A0D.620A450D@SendSpamHere.ORG>  W In article <4140A637.4090401@tsoft-inc.com>, David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:i >Larry Kilgallen wrote:t > B >> I am having trouble specifying a circuit under TSM V2.1 running/ >> under Alpha VMS V7.3 on an AlphaStation 250.n >>  4 >> The AlphaStation is not seeing the DECserver 200. >> o8 >> TSM says it is expecting to find it on circuit SVA-0. >> o7 >> NCP says the known circuit on this machine is EWA-0.  >> d >> The command >> n' >> 	TSM SET SERVER <name> CIRCUIT EWA-0  >> * >> yields the response >> -> >> 	%TSM-E-INVALID_CIRCUIT, UNA-n, QNA-n, BNA-n, SVA-n, MNA-n,2 >> 		ISA-n, KFE-n, MFA-n, FZA-n, or MXE-n expected >> i! >> Can anyone offer suggestions ?n >> g >3L >Well, as Brian has already commented, the rather obvious reason is TSM not % >knowing about EWA types of circuits.m >t< >But you wanted a fix, probably already knowing the problem. >lR >Just a wild ass guess, but would logical names work at this level?  Be simple to  >try.  >y8 >Has the TSM sources been made public?  On the freeware?  H I don't use TSM but the posting which said google TSM$SERVICE_CIRCUITS, C tsmeco07021 gets a link to a page which seems to indicate that the vG TSM$SERVICE_CIRCUITS is a logical which can be used to extend the types  of circuits known to TSM.a   -- e< http://www.ProvN.com  for the *best* OpenVMS system security=                       solutions that others only claim to be.f -- i, Cyber-Terrorism (si'-ber tayr'-or-iz-em) n.:M   The release of, the sale of, or the use of any Micro$oft software product! a -- nK VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM,   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Sep 2004 18:47:39 -0500 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)-- Subject: Re: TSM won't accept my circuit name 3 Message-ID: <LY7b1u+BSEDO@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  U In article <00A37A0D.620A450D@SendSpamHere.ORG>,   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:9  J > I don't use TSM but the posting which said google TSM$SERVICE_CIRCUITS, E > tsmeco07021 gets a link to a page which seems to indicate that the oI > TSM$SERVICE_CIRCUITS is a logical which can be used to extend the types  > of circuits known to TSM.j  > Yes, but as I read that page it requires a patch to TSM, and I= doubt that patch is available on any of the old CONDISTs, ande; with the current situation I do not download software. (VMSs9 Development does understand that security issue, and theyy7 know how to solve it -- all that remains is a matter of 
 priority).  	 =========o  : I ended up resorting to VAX.  The root cause of my problem9 was a DS200 that died.  Luckily I had a spare.  Unluckily 7 this stuff works by storing a lot of configuration datap6 inside the (broken) hardware, so I basically spent the: day scurrying back and forth between the TSM documentation9 and the DECserver 300 (sic) documentation to figure out ax4 set of commands that would get things working again.8 _Then_ I was able to upgrade an Alpha (having convenient5 access to its console again) from an SDK version to ae4 release version, changing an ACCVIO into a privilege4 violation.  That is something with which I can deal.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 21:23:26 -0400) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca>=- Subject: Re: TSM won't accept my circuit name ; Message-ID: <ek70d.40662$Nd6.1110781@news20.bellglobal.com>   : "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message- news:LY7b1u+BSEDO@eisner.encompasserve.org...4< > In article <00A37A0D.620A450D@SendSpamHere.ORG>,   VAXman- > @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:n >s  L I recently jumped through these hoops and recorded my steps at the following URL:  7 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/docs/tsm_on_alpha.htmla    
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,E Ontario, Canada.8 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 16:37:34 -0400s- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>u- Subject: Re: TSM won't accept my circuit namep, Message-ID: <4140BF05.9976EA9A@teksavvy.com>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:D >         %TSM-E-INVALID_CIRCUIT, UNA-n, QNA-n, BNA-n, SVA-n, MNA-n,? >                 ISA-n, KFE-n, MFA-n, FZA-n, or MXE-n expectedc >   > Can anyone offer suggestions ?  9 Use PATCH to change a little used circuit name to EWA-n ?e   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 00:13:06 -0400 - From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network>w- Subject: Re: TSM won't accept my circuit nameS1 Message-ID: <AfKdnQy63f1OtNzcRVn-iQ@adelphia.com>,   Larry Kilgallen wrote:W > In article <00A37A0D.620A450D@SendSpamHere.ORG>,   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:m >  > J >>I don't use TSM but the posting which said google TSM$SERVICE_CIRCUITS, E >>tsmeco07021 gets a link to a page which seems to indicate that the tI >>TSM$SERVICE_CIRCUITS is a logical which can be used to extend the types, >>of circuits known to TSM.  > @ > Yes, but as I read that page it requires a patch to TSM, and I? > doubt that patch is available on any of the old CONDISTs, and.9 > with the current situation I do not download software. f  I I seem to remember that for at least a while the ECOs were being shipped -G on the condists.  I do not know if it is still the case, as as the TSM  F product actually belongs to DNPG, that may also affect where the ECOs  would be obtained from.n  B I also do not know if the version of TSM that was on the Freeware ) CD-ROMS needs that ECO for that function.e  D I am guessing that means that you do not download and use untrusted 	 binaries.m  E This program may come with sources that you can inspect and adapt to h3 your needs if you have a Pascal compiler available.>  : http://vms.process.com/scripts/fileserv/fileserv.com?TSCON  8 It is an open source terminal server connection utility.   -John  wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Onlye   ------------------------------  * Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 23:48:14 -0500 (CDT) From: sms@antinode.org- Subject: Re: TSM won't accept my circuit namea) Message-ID: <04090923481405@antinode.org>d  ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca>    > [...] 9 > http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/docs/tsm_on_alpha.html  > [...]e  H    Having recently resurected an old-enough-to-vote DECserver 200/MC (no@ more bulging filter capacitors for me), I was tempted to try the6 Freeware TSM kit.  Perhaps I should have known better.      It's the usual Hobbyist kit:s  + ALP $ write sys$output f$getsyi( "version")k V7.3-1   ALP $ ncl show version   Node 0& at 2004-09-09-23:50:50.378-05:00I2.541   Characteristicsh  .     Version                           = T5.0.3    B    Attempting to install TSMECO07021 or TSMECO08021.A gives a very similar result:h  E         / Installing Terminal Server Manager VMS Version V2.1-07... \oE         \ Installing Terminal Server Manager VMS Version V2.1-08... //  *          Inavlid DECnet version installed.         [^^^^^^^ Fix me!]n  E          The following table describes the valid DECnet/OSI & OpenVMSH
  releases:  *         DECnet Release      VMS Version(s)*         --------------      --------------'         V6.3                 V6.1, V6.2u!         V7.0                 V7.0e&         V7.1                 V7.0,V7.1  D         These versions apply to both the VAX and the Alpha releases.  G / %VMSINSTAL-E-INSFAIL, The installation of TSMECO07 V2.1 has failed. \lG \ %VMSINSTAL-E-INSFAIL, The installation of TSMECO08 V2.1 has failed. /e [...]n  3    The (smaller) TSMECO09021.A kit is more concise:t [...]eC %VMSINSTAL-E-INSFAIL, The installation of TSMECO09 V2.1 has failed.t [...]e  E    Apparently, DECnet-Plus is the key to a quick failure.  Is there arH better kit I should use, or is it safe to rip into the KITINSTAL.COM, or am I just doomed, TSM-wise?y  (    Note also that many of the links fromI "http://h18003.www1.hp.com/support/digital_networks_archive/servers/tsm/"2 seem to be useless.m  E    I ask you.  What good is obsolete, unsupported software, if no onee keeps it up-to-date?  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode.orgD    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547A   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 07:43:24 +0200 2 From: Karl Rohwedder <emil.mustermann@t-online.de>- Subject: Re: TSM won't accept my circuit nameb* Message-ID: <chretg$20f19@doiweb4.b2x.vwg>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:  A > I am having trouble specifying a circuit under TSM V2.1 running(. > under Alpha VMS V7.3 on an AlphaStation 250. > 3 > The AlphaStation is not seeing the DECserver 200.u > 7 > TSM says it is expecting to find it on circuit SVA-0.c > 6 > NCP says the known circuit on this machine is EWA-0. > 
 > The commandr > & > 	TSM SET SERVER <name> CIRCUIT EWA-0 >  > yields the response  > = > 	%TSM-E-INVALID_CIRCUIT, UNA-n, QNA-n, BNA-n, SVA-n, MNA-n,a1 > 		ISA-n, KFE-n, MFA-n, FZA-n, or MXE-n expectedg >   > Can anyone offer suggestions ?  ) Here is an excerpt from the releasenotes:.  L                In addition, a new logical name, TSM$SERVICE_CIRCUITS, allowsM                this list to be extended with user-defined circuit names. ThisnI                may be used to inform TSM of additional circuit types. TheSL                logical name is defined with a translation list of additionalM                circuit definitions, each of the form "ddd/ccccccccccc", where J                ddd is the corresponding VMS device prefix (up to 3 charac-K                ters), and ccccccccccc is the DECnet circuit name prefix (upVK                to 11 characters). Exceeding the character length limits foroN                either of these fields will result in the error conditions TSM-N                F-USER_DEV_BAD or TSM-F-USER_CIRC_BAD, respectively. AdditionalJ                blanks and tabs are permitted for spacing. For example, theM                definition for the DEQNA adapter would be "XQ/QNA" on a DECnet L                Phase IV system, or "XQ/CSMACD" on a DECnet/OSI system, sinceI                devices on this type of adapter are identified as XQxx and C                DECnet circuits are identified as QNA-x or CSMACD-x.C    	 mfg Kalle    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 19:54:48 +0100w% From: Alan Fay <alan.fay@veritas.com>oD Subject: RE: VERITAS Netbackup OpenVMS 5.0 MP1 release now available4 Message-ID: <chq8tr$3h6$1$830fa79f@news.demon.co.uk>   Shiva,  / I work in engineering so I'm not sure how salesw/ bundle the licenses. If you have a site licence - for NBU then you should be able to just order=- the installation NBU OpenVMS 5.0 CD-ROM from r- your VERITAS SE (but check with them first). .  . You will be much more effective with a direct . request to your VERITAS SE. If it helps, here 2 are the NBU OpenVMS 5.0 CD-ROM SKU order numbers:-   Table 2-1: Media and Licenses E ---------------------------------------------------------------------y SKU (HRO6828)  Description -E ---------------------------------------------------------------------t< A12933Y        NetBackup DataCenter,VMS,Client,v5.0,License A C12933Y        NetBackup DataCenter,VMS,Client,v5.0,Site License cE N12933Y        NetBackup DataCenter,VMS,Client,v5.0,English,Media Kit E ---------------------------------------------------------------------   5 The CD-ROM is a native OpenVMS ODS-2 formatted CD-ROMh% so you can just mount it and install.s  5 The downloadable maintenance packs will only upgrade m- an already existing NBU OpenVMS installation.   3 A Solaris master and its robot will work just fine.o   Alan Fay VERITAS Software Corporation e Roseville Engineeringt      > Date: 2004-09-08 20:59:18 PST / > From: Shiva MahaDeva (contracer11@uol.com.br) G > Subject: Re: VERITAS Netbackup OpenVMS 5.0 MP1 release now available a > Newsgroups: comp.os.vmst > 	o > I > I'm using NetBackup Datacenter to make Solaris, Tru64 and WNT backups. nN > Need I to buy a license to use this 5.0 MP1 ? I'd like backup VMS in Solaris > robot using NBU... > c > Alan Fay <alan.fay@veritas.com> wrote in message news:<chnp2k$dg8$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>...t > > ------------------1 > > The VERITAS Netbackup OpenVMS 5.0 MP1 Releasep > > D > > The downloadable 5.0 MP1 (Maintenance Pack One) upgrade release C > > is now available for both VAX and Alpha. This release supports mA > > 5.0 and 5.1 MP1 master and media servers (UNIX and Windows). a > > ; > > Full release notes are available from VERITAS support:-  > > N > > ftp://ftp.emea.support.veritas.com/pub/support/Products/NetBackup_OpenVMS/ > >     nbu_v5_0_vms_pdf.zip > >  > > Alan Fay! > > VERITAS Software Corporation o > > Roseville Engineeringn >  >    ------------------------------   Date: 9 Sep 2004 17:19:49 -0700-- From: contracer11@uol.com.br (Shiva MahaDeva)-D Subject: Re: VERITAS Netbackup OpenVMS 5.0 MP1 release now available= Message-ID: <ddf392ea.0409091619.4c58938e@posting.google.com>e  8 Thank you, Alan - Ill contact Veritas in Sao Paulo - BR  a Alan Fay <alan.fay@veritas.com> wrote in message news:<chq8tr$3h6$1$830fa79f@news.demon.co.uk>...  > Shiva, > 1 > I work in engineering so I'm not sure how salesw1 > bundle the licenses. If you have a site licencet/ > for NBU then you should be able to just order / > the installation NBU OpenVMS 5.0 CD-ROM from o/ > your VERITAS SE (but check with them first).   > 0 > You will be much more effective with a direct 0 > request to your VERITAS SE. If it helps, here 4 > are the NBU OpenVMS 5.0 CD-ROM SKU order numbers:- >   > Table 2-1: Media and Licenses G > ---------------------------------------------------------------------e > SKU (HRO6828)  Description sG > ---------------------------------------------------------------------f> > A12933Y        NetBackup DataCenter,VMS,Client,v5.0,License C > C12933Y        NetBackup DataCenter,VMS,Client,v5.0,Site License oG > N12933Y        NetBackup DataCenter,VMS,Client,v5.0,English,Media KitlG > ---------------------------------------------------------------------n > 7 > The CD-ROM is a native OpenVMS ODS-2 formatted CD-ROMM' > so you can just mount it and install.a > 7 > The downloadable maintenance packs will only upgrade d/ > an already existing NBU OpenVMS installation.e > 5 > A Solaris master and its robot will work just fine.t > 
 > Alan Fay > VERITAS Software Corporation o > Roseville Engineeringr >  > " > > Date: 2004-09-08 20:59:18 PST 1 > > From: Shiva MahaDeva (contracer11@uol.com.br)eI > > Subject: Re: VERITAS Netbackup OpenVMS 5.0 MP1 release now available g > > Newsgroups: comp.os.vmsm > > 	a > > K > > I'm using NetBackup Datacenter to make Solaris, Tru64 and WNT backups. 0P > > Need I to buy a license to use this 5.0 MP1 ? I'd like backup VMS in Solaris > > robot using NBU... > > e > > Alan Fay <alan.fay@veritas.com> wrote in message news:<chnp2k$dg8$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>...  > > > ------------------3 > > > The VERITAS Netbackup OpenVMS 5.0 MP1 Releasey > > > F > > > The downloadable 5.0 MP1 (Maintenance Pack One) upgrade release E > > > is now available for both VAX and Alpha. This release supports lC > > > 5.0 and 5.1 MP1 master and media servers (UNIX and Windows). Q > > > = > > > Full release notes are available from VERITAS support:-e > > > P > > > ftp://ftp.emea.support.veritas.com/pub/support/Products/NetBackup_OpenVMS/ > > >     nbu_v5_0_vms_pdf.zip > > >  > > > Alan Fay# > > > VERITAS Software Corporation m > > > Roseville Engineeringe > >  > >X   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 14:39:22 -0500* From: Michael Clark <MClark@Nemschoff.com>. Subject: VMS 7.2-1 TCPIP Printing extra paper?Q Message-ID: <A2A28DB6D52E084783ACD6E6C6F5D79002287489@EMAILSERVER2.nemschoff.com>r  J Every time we submit a job to our printers, I get an extra piece of paper. This adds up very quickly.  J I know I fixed this once in the past but I cannot remember how.  Any ideas appreciated =)    
 Michael Clarkn Nemschoff Chairs Inc mclark at nemschoff dot com " CompTIA A+, Network+, Server+, MCP Voice: (920) 457 7726 x294 Fax:  (920) 453 6594    A CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE: This electronic transmission, including alleL attachments, is directed in confidence solely to the person(s) to whom it isL addressed, or an authorized recipient, and may not otherwise be distributed,L copied or disclosed. The contents of the transmission may also be subject toJ intellectual property rights and all such rights are expressly claimed andG are not waived. If you have received this transmission in error, pleaserH notify the sender immediately by return electronic transmission and thenH immediately delete this transmission, including all attachments, without* copying, distributing or disclosing same.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 20:02:54 GMTt) From: Alfred Falk <falk@arc.REMOVE.ab.ca>e2 Subject: Re: VMS 7.2-1 TCPIP Printing extra paper?9 Message-ID: <Xns955F8EE7CBE1Efalkarcabca@198.161.157.145>t  - Michael Clark <MClark@Nemschoff.com> wrote inoI news:A2A28DB6D52E084783ACD6E6C6F5D79002287489@EMAILSERVER2.nemschoff.com:T  E > Every time we submit a job to our printers, I get an extra piece of % > paper. This adds up very quickly.  eF > I know I fixed this once in the past but I cannot remember how.  Any > ideas appreciated =)  I This is a printer setting.  Some printers let you control whether or not cI to print a banner through the printer setup menus.  Others (like HP LJ4)  ; need a message sent from the host.  With multinet, this is hG SUPPRESS_REMOTE_BANNER queue characteristic.  I don't know about other  	 products.r   --  @ ----------------------------------------------------------------A   A L B E R T A         Alfred Falk               falk@arc.ab.ca l@ R E S E A R C H         Information Systems Dept   (780)450-5185+   C O U N C I L         250 Karl Clark Roada1                         Edmonton, Alberta, Canadas http://www.arc.ab.ca/   T6N 1E4   http://www.arc.ab.ca/staff/falk/   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 20:29:48 GMTo# From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)u2 Subject: Re: VMS 7.2-1 TCPIP Printing extra paper?3 Message-ID: <0330d.10219$zD5.9260@news.cpqcorp.net>   ~ In article <A2A28DB6D52E084783ACD6E6C6F5D79002287489@EMAILSERVER2.nemschoff.com>, Michael Clark <MClark@Nemschoff.com> writes:K :Every time we submit a job to our printers, I get an extra piece of paper.U  D   The "blank page" printing discussion in the OpenVMS FAQ points to D   topic (1020) in the OpenVMS Ask The Wizard area; you might want toE   start there.  (There can be a couple of potential causes, dependingCD   on the path used by the queue and depending on the particular type   of printer involved.)   N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.come   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 14:50:21 -0400b- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>a& Subject: Re: VMS marketing opportunity, Message-ID: <4140A5EB.2F607367@teksavvy.com>  
 don wrote:G > hurricanes to a certain degree.  The buildings are generally built toWF > conform to hurricane standards which continue to evolve and improve.  L Why aren't standards setup properly to begin with ? Instead of progressively
 changing ?  K And if buildings "generally" conform, why do they still rebuilt mobile homer* communities each time they are destroyed ?  L > Unfortunately, my next door neighbor lost 2 cars destroyed by a single oak > falling on his garage.  L OAK is the keyword here. In a place where Palm tress are the "native" trees,I putting any non native tree in a hurricane zone is not smart because suchfK trees are not well suited for this, unless they have hurricans hitting themlI every year to "naturally" prune any limb that grows beyond the trees much # smaller ability to widthstand wids.   2 > No amount of building code can protect against a( > huge tree falling on a small building.  ; How about not planting non native trees next to your home ?f   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 15:00:28 -0400o- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>_& Subject: Re: VMS marketing opportunity, Message-ID: <4140A849.E104F839@teksavvy.com>   John Smith wrote:oK > I want to have about 40 semi's loaded with 3/4" plywood and bottled wateraI > drive into FLA each week during hurricane season and park in the targethL > zones for the week leading up to landfall. Cash sales only. Load your own.  K Or put other businesses out of business by selling the metal grades/louvers:L that permenantly fit over the windows or can be lowered over them (and patioP doors) in minutes whenever a storm approaches, as they do in northern australia.  D Of course, if residents insist in building according to their formerJ location's look/feel, then they may not wish to have such "decorations" onH their homes, prefering the fake wooden shutters next to the windows, andR having to buy plywood and nail it everytime some storm is threthening their areas.   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Sep 2004 15:23:45 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)_& Subject: Re: VMS marketing opportunity3 Message-ID: <OuIET8rnaO+J@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <4140A5EB.2F607367@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > don wrote:H >> hurricanes to a certain degree.  The buildings are generally built toG >> conform to hurricane standards which continue to evolve and improve.: > N > Why aren't standards setup properly to begin with ? Instead of progressively > changing ?  H    Politics.  When you know a good standard politics will block it untilH    lots of people get hurt and demand it.  Once you get a good standard =    the policital process can and often does push it backward.t   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 17:17:53 -0400# From: "don" <LakeGator@hotmail.com>,& Subject: Re: VMS marketing opportunity0 Message-ID: <xrGdnSYDP4IUVd3cRVn-rA@comcast.com>  3 I apologize for taking this even further off topic.i  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message& news:4140A5EB.2F607367@teksavvy.com... > don wrote:I > > hurricanes to a certain degree.  The buildings are generally built toeH > > conform to hurricane standards which continue to evolve and improve. >s@ > Why aren't standards setup properly to begin with ? Instead of
 progressivelyF > changing ? >t  G I did not say the standards were wrong.  Most of us learn something newtI every day or so.  The standards get changed as knowledge is gained from auJ variety of sources, including how well structures bear up under the stress
 of storms.  B There are many universities engaged in the study of all aspects ofL hurricanes and their effects.  There are also new materials and constructionK techniques developed constantly.  These all have bearing on the development- of improved standards.  H > And if buildings "generally" conform, why do they still rebuilt mobile home, > communities each time they are destroyed ? >   L I suspect economics and unfounded optimism by the new owners.  You do have aH good point about the mobile homes.  Unfortunately, your other points are& pretty much based in abject ignorance.    J > > Unfortunately, my next door neighbor lost 2 cars destroyed by a single oakP > > falling on his garage. >'G > OAK is the keyword here. In a place where Palm tress are the "native"e trees,K > putting any non native tree in a hurricane zone is not smart because sucheH > trees are not well suited for this, unless they have hurricans hitting themK > every year to "naturally" prune any limb that grows beyond the trees muchP% > smaller ability to widthstand wids.e >tJ Your ignorance of Florida plants is showing here.   You can read about theL native trees of Floridat at http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/BODY_EP007 if you wish.F It lists 75 varieties of trees that are native to Florida.  I count 11G varieties of OAK and 1 (ONE) variety of palm.  The vast majority of the/L palms in Florida are NOT native.  The Live Oak I mentioned was well over 150L years in age, very much native and widespread in this part of Florida.  ThisH tree started growing approximately when the first Europeans visited thisJ part of Florida.  I am quite they did not bring it with them but maybe you know.       L I do applaud your desire to try to help the helpless folks at the new hp getG VMS into the minds of potential customers.  I apologize for being bluntl$ about your ignorance about my state.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 23:06:06 GMT 1 From: Keith Parris <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com>:& Subject: Re: VMS marketing opportunity3 Message-ID: <yl50d.10243$WN5.4920@news.cpqcorp.net>0   JF Mezei wrote:k > Larry Kilgallen wrote:3 > > What is the current limit on Cluster distance ?i > O > It is well above what its competitors are. And I believe it is at 400km rights0 > now (Keith Paris can confirm or correct this).  . 500 miles, equivalent to about 805 kilometers.  I That appears to be enough distance to get your 2nd datacenter completely mF out of the state of Florida, even if your 1st datacenter is way South  somewhere like Miami.m   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 15:03:41 -04004- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>.+ Subject: Re: why mainframes are still used?(, Message-ID: <4140A90A.E9FCADB2@teksavvy.com>   Mike Bartman wrote:b4 > 1) We don't know how many CPUs the 3090 was using.  ; That is because it was a variable customer-selected number.i   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Sep 2004 15:18:45 -0500e; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) + Subject: Re: why mainframes are still used?63 Message-ID: <l4LwheOu6IeB@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  i In article <7u01k0h5bkmojih5t2rrc21q2ndh03jhvo@4ax.com>, Mike Bartman <omni@foolie.omniphile.com> writes:- > C > I guess it depends how you define "computer" then.  That's a nice G > calculator, but not much of a general purpose computer...not compared 8 > to real computers available in the 60s (IBM 360, etc.)  @    It was much more powerfull than the mechanical calculators (4%    functions, no memory) at the time.O  D    We once had our 11/780 sitting next to a 60's era Honeywell.  The>    Honeywell was about twice the size of MicroVAX II.  When itF    was oringally bid for some work the government didn't believe such @    a small machine could do so much, so Honeywell housed it in a%    double-refrigerator sized cabinet.c  (    Problem was it was hard to keep cool.   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Sep 2004 15:14:33 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) + Subject: Re: why mainframes are still used? 3 Message-ID: <O30137FuhChl@eisner.encompasserve.org>y  i In article <fdu0k0hafjvs86dq5rqealtsvtpukbt420@4ax.com>, Mike Bartman <omni@foolie.omniphile.com> writes:-  & >  Those were not only standalone, butF > were also embedded in other systems...such as the PDP 11/40 (I thinkA > that's the model) that was used as a terminal controller in the>? > DECsystem-10 (PDP-10) and referred to as a "DN-87" (size of an > refrigerator).  C    The PDP-11/40 in the front end of our DECSYSTEM 2050 was smallereA    than my kid's dorm fridge.  Of course it was inside a somewhats@    double-refrigerator size cabinet along with some other stuff.  F    The only PDP-11 I can recall being refrigerator size was the 11/70.1    PDP-12 and PDP-15 also tended to be that size.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 17:59:33 -0400o. From: Mike Bartman <omni@foolie.omniphile.com>+ Subject: Re: why mainframes are still used?o8 Message-ID: <amj1k0lshvvdbd2g2s2kseup772l8psor3@4ax.com>  F On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 17:39:25 GMT, nospam@nouce.bellatlantic.net wrote:  1 >On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 11:53:53 -0400, Mike Bartman # ><omni@foolie.omniphile.com> wrote:l >@8 >>  There was one in the main cabinet of the 11/780 thatH >>functioned as a console controller and boot controller (it's what read3 >>the 8" floppy with the WCS info and boot progs). . >u >Microcode loader and boot.   A WCS = "Writeable Control Store"...DEC's name for Microcode on therF 11/780.  I'm not positive, but I think the file name on the floppy was1 something like WCS.EXE.  It's been a long time...   F >in the rack for docs.   I have a rather large and eclectic collectionE >of old computers including many Q-bus PDP-11s, VAXen (UVAX-II/gps inS= >BA123 plus numerous uVAX3100s) and  S100 Z80 and T-11 based r
 >machines.  D I've tried to limit mine.  Still, I've got an Atari 800, Kaypro-4/84D (with an 8086 board running MS-DOS 1.0 that uses the native Z-80 forE I/O), a Dell 316 LT (16 mhz 80386 laptop), two VAXstation 3100-30s, a A VAXstation 3100-M76 and a VAXstation 4000-90...in addition to theoF various PCs and laptops that I use currently to run Windows and Linux.E I turned down an offer of a free VAX 6000...the power draw would have0F doubled my utility bill, and I don't have room for something that big.F It got chopped up and dumpstered when nobody could be found to haul it- away in the time alloted to close the office.m  A >The average PDP-11 I'd been exposed to was two to three racks ofpB >44" or 72" in height.  The usual 72" racked PDP-11 was 60% air asD >the racks were far from full and the cpu only accounted for a small: >part of that.  Not large at all compared to the Ki-10. ;)  C Agreed.  The KL-10 CPU wasn't all that big either...compared to the D memory boxes (core), the memory controller (large commercial upright= refrigerator size), the DN-87s, and other bits that made up ar# DECsystem-10 (filled a large room).f  = >Then again back in the days of the 7094 and 9020s small was -< >anything smaller than a Buick.  As systems (especially CPU F >and memory) got smaller never mind faster the idea of super anything F >was a distinction that it was top of the line in performance and that' >often it was packaged smaller as well.k  F Yep.  Big=Slow.  Longest signal path in the Cray 1 was 6'.  The moduleD collumns were arrranged in a "C" shape, as that got them as close toD each other as possible, while still allowing access for maintenance.F That it was also the first letter of the designer's last name was just a coincidence! :-)  D The X/MP 48 required about 25 square feet of floor space and stood aF bit over 6' high.  That was to allow moving it though a normal doorwayF on the special dolly the delivery and setup teams used.  Weighed aboutE 2.5 tons, mostly in the power supplies (the "bench seats"...about 800ZD lbs each), so the raised floors had to be specially reinforced under them.$  
 -- Mike B.    @ ----------------------------------------------------------------=   To reply via e-mail, remove the 'foolie.' from the address.c%   I'm getting sick of all the SPAM...-@ ----------------------------------------------------------------   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 23:57:37 +0100< From: "Alex Daniels" <AlexNOSPAMTHANKSDaniels@themail.co.uk>+ Subject: Re: why mainframes are still used?f6 Message-ID: <4140dfca$0$22761$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>  J "Andrew Harrison" <andrew_remove__s._harrison@s_u_n.com> wrote in message * news:chp31m$f1u$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com... > JF Mezei wrote:t$ >> Mainframes have 2 selling points: >>L >> On a technical basis, I think that where IBM mainframes historically had  >> aL >> large edge was in IO throughput. (I think this could be debated nowadays  >> though).- >> >nB > The Sun E10K took the I/O crown away from IBM and it hasn't been > returned.g <SNIP>  > Andrew Harrison  D Are there any Sun boxes with greater maximum I/O bandwidth than the J AlphaServer GS1280 at 222 GB/s ? If so can you please provide a reference.   Thanks   Alex     ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 20:39:45 -0400# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>r+ Subject: Re: why mainframes are still used?a, Message-ID: <EpCdnXK-o_dNat3cRVn-vQ@igs.net>   Mike Bartman wrote:eH > On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 12:43:23 GMT, nospam@nouce.bellatlantic.net wrote: > 3 >> On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 00:51:13 -0400, Mike Bartman-% >> <omni@foolie.omniphile.com> wrote:- >>; >>> Just about all computers at the time were larger than a G >>> refrigerator...that was about 1978 when the 11/780 was first built.mC >>> At that time the only small computers were basically toys.  The1C >>> Commodore PET, the "Trash-80" (Radio Shack's TRS-80), the ImsaitB >>> 8080, the Apple I, and maybe some S-100 bus machines that wereE >>> verging on actually useful for more than playing with for fun andS >>> education. >>D >> In 1978 the LSI-11 (PDP-11) was desktop sized as were other small >> machines like the DG Nova.  >cC > LSI-11 was a very specific version of the PDP-11...and yes it wasA> > small.  There was one in the main cabinet of the 11/780 thatH > functioned as a console controller and boot controller (it's what readE > the 8" floppy with the WCS info and boot progs).  Most PDP-11s wereoH > refrigerator sized though...like the 11/70.  They were in standard 19"E > racks (the ones I saw anyway).  Those were not only standalone, but F > were also embedded in other systems...such as the PDP 11/40 (I thinkA > that's the model) that was used as a terminal controller in the ? > DECsystem-10 (PDP-10) and referred to as a "DN-87" (size of ay > refrigerator). >sA >> There was never a hard wall from mainframe to smaller systems.t > E > True.  It was mostly a marketting distinction, though most folks inpD > the industry could look at one and tell you what it was.  Giving aH > hard and fast definition that always worked was pretty much impossibleF > though.  Any such distinction was usually based on a comparison withF > other systems, and which other systems were around to be compared toE > had as much to do with the definition as anything else.  VAXen wereoF > "super-minis" because they were bigger and more powerful than PDP-11H > "minicomputers".  "Microcomputers" were that because they were smallerF > and less powerful than the minis.  Mainframes were those things thatD > were bigger and more powerful and with greater resource needs thanG > super-minis.  Take the VAX-9000.  Was it a mainframe or just the nextcA > larger super-mini in the VAX line?  Call it any way you see it.R    L I thought the distinction between mainfram and anything else was whether the( system had a radiator and water pump ;-)   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 21:30:15 -0400) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca>f+ Subject: Re: why mainframes are still used?d; Message-ID: <Cq70d.40678$Nd6.1112368@news20.bellglobal.com>h  6 "Doc." <doc.cypher@openvms-rocks.com> wrote in message1 news:Xns955D683178FE5dcovmsrox@212.100.160.123...   > %NEWS-I-NEWMSG, ashok wrote in5 > news:1dc813f.0409062326.3efa91ec@posting.google.comh >r [...snip...] >rJ > Incidentally, having a poke round the wikipedia leads me to believe that! > someone from here should updatedJ > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_cluster.  DEC is only mentioned in2 > passing and OpenVMS isn't even mentioned at all. >o >bD I was over there the other day and stumbed across this cool subject.7 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Record_Management_Servicesg    
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,g Ontario, Canada.8 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 00:52:45 -0400a. From: Mike Bartman <omni@foolie.omniphile.com>+ Subject: Re: why mainframes are still used?-8 Message-ID: <qgc2k0h0kq6n4tabna7iv1rvlh3caka063@4ax.com>  @ On Thu, 9 Sep 2004 20:39:45 -0400, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote:  M >I thought the distinction between mainfram and anything else was whether thec) >system had a radiator and water pump ;-)p  @ If that's the case, the DECsystem-10 wasn't a mainframe...it was? aircooled (*lots* of muffin fans, top and bottom of each box!).   D Whether the Crays were mainframes or not would depend on whether youE want to allow things other than water as the coolant.  The Cray 1 and.E the X/MPs were cooled by freon (contrary to popular belief, they wereCE not cryogenic...they were kept at room temp (about 72 F).  The Cray 2o> was cooled by a liquid flourocarbon similar to what's used for? artificial blood.  I believe it was invented by 3M, but I'm notv? certain of that.  In both cases the coolant went through a heat-E exchanger that was often cooled by water, but that wasn't part of the  Cray system itself.U  
 -- Mike B.  
 -- Mike B.  
 '04 FLSTCI  @ ----------------------------------------------------------------=   To reply via e-mail, remove the 'foolie.' from the address.e%   I'm getting sick of all the SPAM...-@ ----------------------------------------------------------------   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Sep 2004 22:40:59 -0700n. From: spinoza1111@yahoo.com (Edward G. Nilges)+ Subject: Re: why mainframes are still used?l= Message-ID: <f5dda427.0409092140.29352a75@posting.google.com>   k arjdombivli@indiatimes.com (ashok) wrote in message news:<1dc813f.0409062324.24f401b@posting.google.com>...I > dear all,s >  >  > E > In the today's age of supercomputer ,why mainframes are still used?I  E (1) The data is on the mainframe, and is in a proprietary format that = can only be accessed by proprietary software on the mainframea  E (2) For some terabyte scale applications including weapons simulationOD and spying on dissidents, the mainframe is better than client server% but not as good as the supercomputer.a  1 > which are the operating systems for mainframes?i  D (1) MVS: multiple virtual storages: an IBM mainframe OS that is even( more complex and difficult than Windows.  D (2) TSO, formerly separate from MVS but now integrated. Fondly knownA as Time Squandering Option, TSO is officially Time Sharing OptionfD which allows one to distribute the misery of actually logging into a? mainframe, and inflict upon oneself the need to use IEFBR14, tou do...something.   D From TSO, you can run "jobs" consisting of the execution of programsE and get the output of your S0C7 back in seconds suitable for framing.tA These jobs are described in Job Control Language, which was namedb< after Job in the Bible, who was tested by G-d for his faith.  F (3) CMS, Conversational Monitoring System. Almost human, this made theB mainframe nearly into a personal computer with full screen editingD synthesized using black on green characters and email. Profs was theC professional office system running on CMS. Oliver North, Fawn Hall,aC Don Regan and George Schultz all used profs to do their jobs at theo White House. Enough said.   C (4) Sorry, don't have info on non-IBM mainframe OSs although Unisysa makes...something.  % > How they are different from the PC?h  C In actuality and at the fundamental level, not by much in the sense E that both mainframe and PCs are meant to compute answers and also let0D us play Doom. But the PC allows each one of us to have his very own,D completely wrong in most cases, set of files that reflects a modallyF delusional world view. This is known as a weltanschaung, and it is why Bush voters like computers.   D In the mainframe era, only large companies like Ford Motors could goE completely off the rails with a plan to market a car (the Edsel) thatmA nobody wanted because the mainframe was programmable to print out  "yes, the Edsel will sell".   E Today, however, we can all delude ourselves. This is called progress.-    2 > which are the mainframe manufacturing companies?  A IBM and Unisys are about it, along with Japanese that manufacture1C clones. ICL (an English company) and Bull (a French company with ane? appropriate name) now claim to sell, not iron, but "solutions",aC whatever those are. Bull sells them in France where they are called. les solutions, I think.   F If you want to buy a mainframe for personal use, I am certain IBM willD help you set up the chiller, false floor, and Halon fire suppressionD system. However, you probably should get a high-end PC instead. Or a
 Macintosh.  C Seriously, if you live in or visit Mountain View, California, checksE out the Computer Museum which features pieces of mainframes, examples:F of software and manuals. Last time I was there, docents and volunteersB were reconstructing an early mainframe (with perhaps 10e-20 of the$ power of a PC), called the IBM 1620.  C Mainframes charmingly came complete with convenient tables and cozy-D seats. You could put your listings and manuals on the tables and sitD on the seats provided. In general, since mainframes (like nearly allD computers) dislike smoking, you weren't permitted even in the Era ofD Smoking (1830..1990) to smoke around the mainframe because for earlyE mainframe "hard disks", a single smoke particle was like a boulder on$	 a runway.b  A The Cray supercomputer, in fact, was graced with a circular benchiE designed for storage of tools but which also was most commodious. YouaE could sit and jaw with the customer engineers about hunting season in , Minnesota which is where Seymour Cray lived.  D Mainframes were also, and unlike today's PC's, anxious to dazzle andA inform by displaying what today's ergonomic Puritans regard as an  excess of status lights.  D Ponder the fact that today you are lucky to get a single green lightB which flickers intermittently to show you that a virus is chomping away at your data.  @ In the salad days of the mainframe, hundreds of lights displayedC status including whether the mainframe was talking ASCII or EBCDIC, E whether or not it had encountered an IO error, and whether or not you 7 had just pushed the button marked "destroy everything".t  D The graphics of Stanley Kubrick's film 2001 were in fact inspired by1 the IBM 7094 mainframe and this excess of riches.o  C Hippie programmers of the late 1960s, when the day's work was done,hE would turn out the lights of the computer center, and, in the smoking)? area with its glassed in view of the computer floor, run a slow @ Fortran job to watch the blinking lights while firing up illegal substances.   E No dissidents back then wanted to destroy computers, any more than we D spat on soldiers. Instead, many of us were like wow, man, a computer@ and curious to see if it could help us set up a business selling tie-died shirts.   > $ > sorry to trouble you like this.... >  >  > regds, > ypjD   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.502 ************************