1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 11 Sep 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 504       Contents:+ Re: BACKUP is ignoring /SINCE=BACKUP.  Why? + Re: BACKUP is ignoring /SINCE=BACKUP.  Why? + Re: BACKUP is ignoring /SINCE=BACKUP.  Why? P Configuring Reflections file transfer (was: I'm giving up computers if this is t Dan to the Rescue?2 Re: I'm giving up computers if this is the future.2 Re: I'm giving up computers if this is the future.2 Re: I'm giving up computers if this is the future.2 Re: I'm giving up computers if this is the future.2 Re: I'm giving up computers if this is the future.2 Re: I'm giving up computers if this is the future.2 Re: I'm giving up computers if this is the future.2 Re: I'm giving up computers if this is the future.2 Re: I'm giving up computers if this is the future.2 Re: I'm giving up computers if this is the future.2 Re: I'm giving up computers if this is the future. Impersonate  Re: Impersonate  Re: Impersonate  Re: Installing VMS Re: Installing VMS Re: Installing VMS Re: Installing VMS Re: Installing VMS% Re: Itanium not meeting Intel's goals % Re: Itanium not meeting Intel's goals % Re: Maximum distance for VMS clusters % Re: Maximum distance for VMS clusters % Re: Maximum distance for VMS clusters % Re: Maximum distance for VMS clusters % Re: Maximum distance for VMS clusters P Re: Status of PL/I on Itanium (Was: Re: Canada's Equitable Life begins         m Re: Suggestion for file system Re: Suggestion for file systemG Re: TSM hates my DECnet version (Was: TSM won't accept my circuit name) G Re: TSM hates my DECnet version (Was: TSM won't accept my circuit name) P Re: TSM hates my DECnet version (Was: TSM won't accept my circuit name) name)nam$ Re: TSM won't accept my circuit name VMS in Datmation Re: VMS in Datmation RE: VMS License Help RE: VMS marketing opportunity 6 Re: Well, my VAX won't make a year of uptime after all" Re: why mainframes are still used?" Re: why mainframes are still used?" Re: why mainframes are still used?" Re: why mainframes are still used?" RE: why mainframes are still used?" RE: why mainframes are still used?" RE: why mainframes are still used?" Re: why mainframes are still used?" Re: why mainframes are still used?# Re: [OT]: The state of CS education   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 20:17:31 +0000 (UTC) , From: lewis@PROBE.MITRE.ORG (Keith A. Lewis)4 Subject: Re: BACKUP is ignoring /SINCE=BACKUP.  Why?. Message-ID: <cht24r$i9j$2@newslocal.mitre.org>   tadamsmar@yahoo.com (Tom Adams) writes in article <ea44f5a1.0409100726.253d5722@posting.google.com> dated 10 Sep 2004 08:26:10 -0700: L >I have one machine where the incremental backup is backing up every file on
 >the machine.  > M >I have 5 Alphas and they are all running the same incremental backup command J >procedure.   The others are working normally, but this one is filling the >backup tape every other day.  > > >Does anyone have any idea what might be wrong on this system?  E As Norm said, the directory dates trigger this.  And the top level is H particularly dangerous, because if you use [*...]*.*;* as your filespec,K [000000] is exluded from backup and the recording of the backup date, so it L and everything under it (which is the whole disk) will continue to be backed9 up in every incremental until you do a full image backup.   K Here's some code I wrote to handle this.  It looks at the modification date I of the root directory file and does a full image backup if it's changed.  ( Otherwise it does a regular incremental.  ( $! P2 is the device name or DISK$volname $!$ $ varflags := /mod/since=backup/fast $ files := [*...]*.*;*1 $ rootname = f$search(p2 + ":[000000]000000.DIR")  $ if rootname .nes. "" $ then@ $     backup_date = f$cvtime(f$file_attributes(rootname, "BDT"))= $     mod_date = f$cvtime(f$file_attributes(rootname, "RDT")) # $     if backup_date .les. mod_date 
 $     thenI $!        BACKUP will do all files anyway, so make it a full image backup 7 $!        so that it won't do the same thing next time.  $!) $         saveset = saveset - ".I" + ".F"  $         varflags := /image $         files = "" $     endif  $ endif  $!& $ backup /ignore = (label,interlock) -          /noalias -           /record -          /noinit/norewind - #          /media_format=compaction -           'varflags' - 6          /block  = 32768                'p2':'files' -;                                         tape:'saveset'/save  $!  0 --Keith Lewis              klewis {at} mitre.org> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Sep 2004 20:49:07 -0700. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)4 Subject: Re: BACKUP is ignoring /SINCE=BACKUP.  Why?= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0409101949.6937c061@posting.google.com>   b lewis@PROBE.MITRE.ORG (Keith A. Lewis) wrote in message news:<cht24r$i9j$2@newslocal.mitre.org>... > tadamsmar@yahoo.com (Tom Adams) writes in article <ea44f5a1.0409100726.253d5722@posting.google.com> dated 10 Sep 2004 08:26:10 -0700:   A [discussion of problem with BACKUP /SINCE=BACKUP copying too many  files omitted]  " [part of posted procedure omitted]  ( > $ backup /ignore = (label,interlock) - >          /noalias -  >          /record - >          /noinit/norewind - % >          /media_format=compaction -  >          'varflags' - 8 >          /block  = 32768                'p2':'files' -                      ^^^^^  F If there is any possibility that you would later want to copy the saveD set from tape to disk, use a block size of 32256, the maximum for an on-disk save set.   = >                                         tape:'saveset'/save  > $! > 2 > --Keith Lewis              klewis {at} mitre.org@ > The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 05:12:54 GMT   From: John Santos <john@egh.com>4 Subject: Re: BACKUP is ignoring /SINCE=BACKUP.  Why?* Message-ID: <qPv0d.3252$iS2.1391@trnddc09>   Tom Adams wrote:M > I have one machine where the incremental backup is backing up every file on  > the machine. > N > I have 5 Alphas and they are all running the same incremental backup commandK > procedure.   The others are working normally, but this one is filling the  > backup tape every other day. > ? > Does anyone have any idea what might be wrong on this system?   5 What version of VMS and what ECO's have been applied?   C The behaviour has changed several times over the last few years.  I C think it currently once again "does the right thing".  For a while, G any change to a directory, not including creating or deleting any files E in it, but including any change in its size (which could be triggered @ randomly by creating or deleting files in it), caused the entire> directory and all its subdirectories to be backed up during anC incremental backup.  If you created a new top-level directory, then # the entire disk could be backed up.   B I think the XQP was changed to no longer touch the "modified" dateB on a directory except if the directory metadata (protection, ACLs,F ownership, etc.) were changed or if it was renamed.  (I think renamingC directories or deleting and creating directories with the same name B could trick BACKUP into missing changes under the original scheme,A and the quick fix was to backup EVERYTHING if the "modified" date @ on the parent directory was more recent than the "backup" date.)  C It was around about V7.1-V7.2 that the behaviour changed.  A Google 4 search should reveal hundreds of posts on the topic.   HTH    --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 00:12:11 -0400 - From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> Y Subject: Configuring Reflections file transfer (was: I'm giving up computers if this is t 1 Message-ID: <6cOdneyY2dmB5t_cRVn-hg@adelphia.com>     VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:M > Would anyone be wanting a 1U rack mount Pentium III before I decide to take ? > a lead pipe to it in order to relieve my frustration with it?  > N > 2 freaking days already of trying to get reflection's file transfer protocol/ > to work.  Their support droids are useless.     G I have encountered only one problem with getting the transfer protocol  5 to work, and found what it takes to prevent problems.   D Now it has been over 3 years since I have had to do anything, so my  knowledge is a bit dated.   C The Reflections terminal emulator is usually set to try one of two   commands for the file transfer.   E This would be "RUN VAXLINK", or simply VAXLINK.  Later versions used  L VAXLINK2 instead of VAXLINK.  And the Alpha image may have a different name.  E If these commands fail, the terminal attempts to download the source  F code to the current default directory and tries to build it.  It then H attempts to use what the user set as the transfer command to execute it.  H The usual result that I have seen when encountering a machine where the C user is complaining about the transfers not working is that I find  F copies of the transfer image and source code in many directories, yet E the transfer settings of the user are not set to actually run any of  I those copies, but are either looking for a non-existent foreign command,  C or trying to run a copy from SYS$SYSTEM:, where it either does not  4 exist, or they do not have privileges to execute it.  F The fix is simple.  Find/build a working copy of the executables, and C put them in a specific directory with only read and execute access.   $ I use XFER_TOOLS: as that directory.  E Then in the SYLOGICALS.COM or equivalent, make sure that the logical  B names VAXLINK and or VAXLINK2 point to XFER_TOOLS:VAXLINK.EXE and % XFER_TOOLS:VAXLINK2.EXE respectively.   I And in SYLOGIN.COM, set a foreign command to be the VAXLINK and VAXLINK2   to execute those images.  G That way, what ever way that the user set up their transfer dialog, it  H will find the program, so it will not try to download it and rebuild it.  E Then you can delete all the extra copies of the transfer program and   it's source off of the system.  G Then train the local VMS system manager about what is going on so that  9 they can make this a standard part of their system build.   B Also, usually the license for a Refections terminal emulator also ( includes a license for a GUI FTP client.   -John  wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only    ------------------------------  , Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 07:15:50 +0200 (CEST)E From: "privacy.at Anonymous Remailer" <mixmaster@remailer.privacy.at>  Subject: Dan to the Rescue? B Message-ID: <530b5f6684e046bf40f13b3ed6355384@remailer.privacy.at>   Well not really.      Hey there is always 2008.  Maybe4 Gephardt will run again or Tongas.  Maybe if Edwards2 distances himself he can run with Hillary in 2008. Purrfect together.    4 Caddell: Dan Rather May Have Cost Kerry the Election  ? Longtime Democratic strategist Pat Caddell said Friday that if  F documents aired by CBS newsman Dan Rather Wednesday night turn out to C be forged, as alleged by experts, the presidential race "is over."    C "It would be the end of the race," Caddell told Fox News Live. "It  , would be the end of the race," he repeated.   D "[Democratic officials are] so involved in this," the former Carter C pollster worried. "They have gotten themselves so involved in this  F issue [in] the last 24 hours that somebody's going to, if they're not D authentic, they're going to be blamed for it. It's incredible to me  that they've gotten in this."   F Caddell said he wasn't trying to sensationalize the issue, explaining D that instead "I'm trying to save my party, you know, by telling the  truth."   H He said that forfeiting the presidential race would be the least of his ? party's problems if Democrats are tied to any forgery scandal.  H "The race is over - and we've got bigger problems than that," he warned.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 16:09:33 -0400 . From: Mike Bartman <omni@foolie.omniphile.com>; Subject: Re: I'm giving up computers if this is the future. 8 Message-ID: <jd24k01l9ku1l7k0ut7talhv3ueig8dtv1@4ax.com>  C On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 17:05:42 GMT, VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:   L >If PeeCee/Weendoze is the future, I am buying myself a hot dog cart today!   B I'm with you...that's why I'm teaching myself Linux...and welding, just in case!  ;-)  M >How the hell can people use such shite and actually purport to be productive  >at their jobs?   2 The trick is to lower expectations sufficiently...  
 -- Mike B.  @ ----------------------------------------------------------------=   To reply via e-mail, remove the 'foolie.' from the address. %   I'm getting sick of all the SPAM... @ ----------------------------------------------------------------   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 20:41:25 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG; Subject: Re: I'm giving up computers if this is the future. 0 Message-ID: <00A37ADD.7FEB4867@SendSpamHere.ORG>  i In article <jd24k01l9ku1l7k0ut7talhv3ueig8dtv1@4ax.com>, Mike Bartman <omni@foolie.omniphile.com> writes: D >On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 17:05:42 GMT, VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > M >>If PeeCee/Weendoze is the future, I am buying myself a hot dog cart today!   > C >I'm with you...that's why I'm teaching myself Linux...and welding,  >just in case!  ;-)  > N >>How the hell can people use such shite and actually purport to be productive >>at their jobs? > 3 >The trick is to lower expectations sufficiently...   I That same sort of thinking has been adopted for education in the People's : Republic of New Jermany.  Where is this world headed... :( --  < http://www.ProvN.com  for the *best* OpenVMS system security=                       solutions that others only claim to be.  --  , Cyber-Terrorism (si'-ber tayr'-or-iz-em) n.:M   The release of, the sale of, or the use of any Micro$oft software product!   --  K VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 00:06:57 GMT 6 From: "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@NOSPAM.spyderbyte.com>; Subject: Re: I'm giving up computers if this is the future. 9 Message-ID: <Bkr0d.60$LZ3.20489@twister.southeast.rr.com>   
 Guiness time?    K  ________________________" Kenneth R. Farmer <>< 336-736-7376$ SpyderByte: http://www.SpydeByte.com      , <VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in message* news:00A37ABF.5D2132B1@SendSpamHere.ORG...H > Would anyone be wanting a 1U rack mount Pentium III before I decide to take? > a lead pipe to it in order to relieve my frustration with it?  > E > 2 freaking days already of trying to get reflection's file transfer  protocol- > to work.  Their support droids are useless.  > L > If PeeCee/Weendoze is the future, I am buying myself a hot dog cart today!C > How the hell can people use such shite and actually purport to be 
 productiveK > at their jobs?  I hate this shite more and more and more everyday because  itD > has infiltrated customer environments and I have to debug software problems= > in conjunction with users using these shite "inhell" boxes.  >  > --  > > http://www.ProvN.com  for the *best* OpenVMS system security? >                       solutions that others only claim to be.  > --  . > Cyber-Terrorism (si'-ber tayr'-or-iz-em) n.:E >   The release of, the sale of, or the use of any Micro$oft software  product! > --  2 > VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 00:14:36 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG; Subject: Re: I'm giving up computers if this is the future. 0 Message-ID: <00A37AFB.47F0EF88@SendSpamHere.ORG>  r In article <Bkr0d.60$LZ3.20489@twister.southeast.rr.com>, "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@NOSPAM.spyderbyte.com> writes: >Guiness time?   :)     Works every time!  Thanks Ken!   --  < http://www.ProvN.com  for the *best* OpenVMS system security=                       solutions that others only claim to be.  --  , Cyber-Terrorism (si'-ber tayr'-or-iz-em) n.:M   The release of, the sale of, or the use of any Micro$oft software product!   --  K VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 20:55:32 -0400 3 From: Undisclosed <nomail@dontbeaweaselspammer.com> ; Subject: Re: I'm giving up computers if this is the future. 0 Message-ID: <UfCdnezOTeKS0N_cRVn-sQ@comcast.com>    VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:  M > Would anyone be wanting a 1U rack mount Pentium III before I decide to take ? > a lead pipe to it in order to relieve my frustration with it?  > N > 2 freaking days already of trying to get reflection's file transfer protocol/ > to work.  Their support droids are useless.    > M > If PeeCee/Weendoze is the future, I am buying myself a hot dog cart today!  N > How the hell can people use such shite and actually purport to be productiveN > at their jobs?  I hate this shite more and more and more everyday because itM > has infiltrated customer environments and I have to debug software problems > > in conjunction with users using these shite "inhell" boxes.  >   " there's nothing wrong with the PC.  F there's a whole hell of a lot wrong with Windows (even as I type this H from there.. sorry, I'm tired. I don't mix access to rm -rf with a lack 	 of sleep)   , don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.  I only things I can thing of wrong with the AMD-64/Opteron is no microcode  D encryption/signing and the fact they still won't make Rings 1 and 2 G usable for added security levels by adding the proper fucking hardware  B support, yet they're still pushing this TCPA "Ring -1" shit at us.  @ add those two, which would probably be doable if many OS makers A requested 'em, and that's the platform OVMS should be running on.   G the open source guys had been yelling for a hardware NX bit instead of  F doing it in software.. Microsoft eventually figured out it would be a * good thing for them as well. AMD listened.  I hell, the OpenBSD guys were working with VIA on their x86 chips with AES  @ acceleration built in. Who needs a expensive proprietary crypto I acceleration board with goofy chips when you can just add a daughtercard  G running a cheap low-electrical-power x86 with accelerated AES and some  G other crypto functions, that smokes all the other accelerator chips on  
 the market...   F at this point, Alphas and Itanics are just glorified proprietary PC's C anyway... they use a different processor, all the other structural  ? components like PCI come from the PC. (says 100 ave marias for  ' blaspheming the Alpha... but it's true)    ------------------------------    Date: 10 Sep 2004 20:37:21 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) ; Subject: Re: I'm giving up computers if this is the future. 3 Message-ID: <57bPzFGlN7Ca@eisner.encompasserve.org>   U In article <00A37ABF.5D2132B1@SendSpamHere.ORG>,   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: M > Would anyone be wanting a 1U rack mount Pentium III before I decide to take ? > a lead pipe to it in order to relieve my frustration with it?  > N > 2 freaking days already of trying to get reflection's file transfer protocol/ > to work.  Their support droids are useless.     5 Sorry, Brian, you have just lost the PC sales job :-)    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 01:48:17 GMT % From: "The KGB" <kgb@tampabay.rr.com> ; Subject: Re: I'm giving up computers if this is the future. ; Message-ID: <BPs0d.24226$Of3.22912@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>   F Don't hold back, tell us how you really feel.  For the what it's worthI department anyone that is working around those shit boxes knows what your 7 going through.  Donate it...get the tax bennie......... , <VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in message* news:00A37ABF.5D2132B1@SendSpamHere.ORG...H > Would anyone be wanting a 1U rack mount Pentium III before I decide to take? > a lead pipe to it in order to relieve my frustration with it?  > E > 2 freaking days already of trying to get reflection's file transfer  protocol- > to work.  Their support droids are useless.  > L > If PeeCee/Weendoze is the future, I am buying myself a hot dog cart today!C > How the hell can people use such shite and actually purport to be 
 productiveK > at their jobs?  I hate this shite more and more and more everyday because  itD > has infiltrated customer environments and I have to debug software problems= > in conjunction with users using these shite "inhell" boxes.  >  > --  > > http://www.ProvN.com  for the *best* OpenVMS system security? >                       solutions that others only claim to be.  > --  . > Cyber-Terrorism (si'-ber tayr'-or-iz-em) n.:E >   The release of, the sale of, or the use of any Micro$oft software  product! > --  2 > VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 21:05:16 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>; Subject: Re: I'm giving up computers if this is the future. + Message-ID: <41425D5B.67F8EB40@comcast.net>   ! VAXman-, @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:  > M > Would anyone be wanting a 1U rack mount Pentium III before I decide to take ? > a lead pipe to it in order to relieve my frustration with it?    How much you want for it?   N > 2 freaking days already of trying to get reflection's file transfer protocol > to work.     What's it not doing?  E Because it relies on the underlying link (just as would X/Y/Zmodem or F Kermit), there's a lot of little things that are usually not an issue,C but become big issues when you;re trying to transfer files over the  equivalent of a serial link.  # > Their support droids are useless.   G Depends. Get the right one, and he/she is like gold. Get the wrong one, ? and - let's see, what was the word you used? Oh yeah - SHITE!!!   L > If PeeCee/Weendoze is the future, I am buying myself a hot dog cart today!  G I still think the job on the garbage truck would do nicely. Then again, @ my wife's nephew just started working for the railroad after andH extended period of unemployment due to a layoff. MAN! Am *I* ever in theH wrong trade!!! If you can handle working 12 to 15 hour days, some of 'em) make over $100/hr gross (before bene's!).   N > How the hell can people use such shite and actually purport to be productiveN > at their jobs?  I hate this shite more and more and more everyday because itM > has infiltrated customer environments and I have to debug software problems = > in conjunction with users using these shite "inhell" boxes.   B As I've said for years, but no one understands it: there's a large= difference between what CAN be done, and what SHOULD be done.    D.J.D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 23:08:05 -0400 5 From: "Brad McCusker" <brad.mccuskerNosp@Mcompaq.com> ; Subject: Re: I'm giving up computers if this is the future. 0 Message-ID: <10k4r0q4knt12c6@corp.supernews.com>  G So, I used to use the Reflection file transfer protocol (its been a few < years), did you get it working?  You interested in any help?  ' Send me mail direct to my HP account...   
 Brad McCusker , <VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in message* news:00A37ABF.5D2132B1@SendSpamHere.ORG...H > Would anyone be wanting a 1U rack mount Pentium III before I decide to take? > a lead pipe to it in order to relieve my frustration with it?  > E > 2 freaking days already of trying to get reflection's file transfer  protocol- > to work.  Their support droids are useless.  > L > If PeeCee/Weendoze is the future, I am buying myself a hot dog cart today!C > How the hell can people use such shite and actually purport to be 
 productiveK > at their jobs?  I hate this shite more and more and more everyday because  itD > has infiltrated customer environments and I have to debug software problems= > in conjunction with users using these shite "inhell" boxes.  >  > --  > > http://www.ProvN.com  for the *best* OpenVMS system security? >                       solutions that others only claim to be.  > --  . > Cyber-Terrorism (si'-ber tayr'-or-iz-em) n.:E >   The release of, the sale of, or the use of any Micro$oft software  product! > --  2 > VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 20:34:38 -0700  From: Z <z@no.spam> ; Subject: Re: I'm giving up computers if this is the future. 0 Message-ID: <10k4si98r15tg51@corp.supernews.com>    VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:N > 2 freaking days already of trying to get reflection's file transfer protocol/ > to work.  Their support droids are useless.     D I've had no problems installing or using Reflections (inc;uding the $ FTP client) on numerous Windows PCs.  & What specific problems are you having?   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 00:55:50 -0400 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>; Subject: Re: I'm giving up computers if this is the future. , Message-ID: <41428556.7020202@tsoft-inc.com>   VAXman- wrote:  M > Would anyone be wanting a 1U rack mount Pentium III before I decide to take ? > a lead pipe to it in order to relieve my frustration with it?  > N > 2 freaking days already of trying to get reflection's file transfer protocol/ > to work.  Their support droids are useless.    > M > If PeeCee/Weendoze is the future, I am buying myself a hot dog cart today!  N > How the hell can people use such shite and actually purport to be productiveN > at their jobs?  I hate this shite more and more and more everyday because itM > has infiltrated customer environments and I have to debug software problems > > in conjunction with users using these shite "inhell" boxes.  >  >   L HA HA!  Reminds me a bit of my son when he had trouble getting an inkjet to L work.  I think it may have already been broken, but he grabbed the printer, P raised it over his head, and propelled it rapidly toward the floor.  Oh, and he P works out at a gym almost every day, so when I say rapidly, I mean VERY rapidly.  : Surprising how many pieces are in one of them things.  :-)  M I calmly asked if he felt any better, and with a smile he said "much better".   ; If you really, really have to, go ahead with the lead pipe.   Q Otherwise, quit the rant and describe what you want to do.  Note that windoz FTP  O is a client only.  Have to run IIS to get a FTP server.  Do select the hod dog   cart ahead of IIS.  P I can't resist.  :-)  If you knew what a SMARTERM was, you'd have a rather easy  to use FTP client.   Dave   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 01:43:58 GMT % From: "The KGB" <kgb@tampabay.rr.com>  Subject: Impersonate: Message-ID: <yLs0d.24224$Of3.1627@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>  I Looking in the UAF at SYSTEM rights and stuff I see that 'impersonate' is K listed.  I  find very little information on it.  Can someone please clue me J in on it's use? As in how it is used and more importantly how can a SYSMANF defend against it assuming it's to impersonate a user!  VMS Ver 7.2.1.  	 Thank you    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 21:11:21 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> Subject: Re: Impersonate+ Message-ID: <41425EC9.F62CECB6@comcast.net>    The KGB wrote: > K > Looking in the UAF at SYSTEM rights and stuff I see that 'impersonate' is M > listed.  I  find very little information on it.  Can someone please clue me L > in on it's use? As in how it is used and more importantly how can a SYSMANH > defend against it assuming it's to impersonate a user!  VMS Ver 7.2.1. >  > Thank you   C See the system services manual for information on persona services.    D.J.D.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 02:09:24 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing) Subject: Re: Impersonate6 Message-ID: <00A37AF2.26031F85@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  b In article <yLs0d.24224$Of3.1627@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>, "The KGB" <kgb@tampabay.rr.com> writes:J >Looking in the UAF at SYSTEM rights and stuff I see that 'impersonate' isL >listed.  I  find very little information on it.  Can someone please clue meK >in on it's use? As in how it is used and more importantly how can a SYSMAN G >defend against it assuming it's to impersonate a user!  VMS Ver 7.2.1.  >   H The IMPERSONATE privilege grants the ability to use the persona services to impersonate other users.   N You defend against that use by not granting that privilege to untrusted users,1 or even to trusted users who have no need for it.   6 (Of course, they can still do it if they have CMKRNL.)   -- Alan    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 11:00:06 -0700 ( From: Steven Schoch <schoch@spamcop.net> Subject: Re: Installing VMS . Message-ID: <chsq5j$esl$1@news.mainstreet.net>   David J. Dachtera wrote:L >>I got a copy of VMS 7.1 and installed it on my old AlphaStation 400 4/233.I >>  That seemed to work ok, except I still need a license. (how long does : >>it take to get one after filling out the Hobbyist form?) >  > I > It's mostly automated. You should get turn-around within ten minutes or  > so.   E Ok!  I got it.  I think the first time I filled out the form my spam  $ filters must have trapped the reply.  G So I did the $ LICENSE REGISTER command and it worked.  I rebooted the  F system just to make sure.  Now the console comes up with a DECWindows H login screen.  However, when I attempt to login as SYSTEM, it pops up a F window that says "LMF license check has failed."  When I click OK, it  goes back to the login screen.  F It appears I need a separate license for DECWindows.  I suppose I can B get this from the form at the hobbyist site, but once I have that 3 license, how do I get a command prompt to enter it?    --   Steve    ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 19:04:03 +0000 (UTC) 6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) Subject: Re: Installing VMS 0 Message-ID: <newscache$2z9u3i$iwx$1@news.sil.at>  Y In article <chsq5j$esl$1@news.mainstreet.net>, Steven Schoch <schoch@spamcop.net> writes: H >So I did the $ LICENSE REGISTER command and it worked.  I rebooted the G >system just to make sure.  Now the console comes up with a DECWindows  I >login screen.  However, when I attempt to login as SYSTEM, it pops up a  G >window that says "LMF license check has failed."  When I click OK, it   >goes back to the login screen.   ; You forgot to add the (>100) Layered Products License PAKs. * Go back to the webserver and request them.C To get them in is a little challenge (like entering the UCX license 0 by hand, and then transferring the rest per FTP)  G >It appears I need a separate license for DECWindows.  I suppose I can  C >get this from the form at the hobbyist site, but once I have that  4 >license, how do I get a command prompt to enter it?  ? There are various ways. All of them covered in the OpenVMS FAQ. ; I would recommend doing a conversational boot (>>B -FL 0,1) A and turn MOTIF off (SYSBOOT> SET WINDOW_SYSTEM 0), then enter the @ licenses from the operator terminal, and then turn MOTIF back onB (eg. by doing a $ @SYS$UPDATE:AUTOGEN SAVPARAMS REBOOT FEEDBACK or  by SYSBOOT> SET WINDOW_SYSTEM 1)   --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 15:25:58 -0700 ( From: Steven Schoch <schoch@spamcop.net> Subject: Re: Installing VMS . Message-ID: <cht9o3$k0t$1@news.mainstreet.net>    Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER wrote:  E > To get them in is a little challenge (like entering the UCX license 2 > by hand, and then transferring the rest per FTP)  F I got the PAKs.  I added the one for DW-MOTIF, which now allows me to I log in under DECWindows.  I also added one titled UCX-IP-CLIENT, which I  H assumed would get me TCP/IP, but no luck it seems.  When I run "UCX" it H says "%DCL-W-ACTIMAGE, error activating image UCX$CFS_SHR..."  My guess G is the image was not installed because TCP/IP was not started when the  E system booted.  Could this be because I didn't enter the correct PAK?   8 The file lan$acp.log complains about some missing files I lan$node_database and lan$device_database but I don't know how to create i them.C  / I also don't know if this is related to TCP/IP.K  G The whole purpose of all this is to upgrade the firmware so that I can cF load VMS 7.3, which I would hope will go more smoothly.  I downloaded I what I think is the latest version of the firmware from the HP site, but iG I need to get it on the machine somehow.  If I can get TCP/IP working, i then I'll use that.   E I tried burning it on a CD-R (using Windows XP), but when I tried to r7 mount that, it got an unhandled exception and rebooted.t   -- t Stever   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 15:32:07 -0700o( From: Steven Schoch <schoch@spamcop.net> Subject: Re: Installing VMSt. Message-ID: <chta3k$k1t$1@news.mainstreet.net>   Steven Schoch wrote:   >   When I run "UCX" it J > says "%DCL-W-ACTIMAGE, error activating image UCX$CFS_SHR..."  My guess I > is the image was not installed because TCP/IP was not started when the nG > system booted.  Could this be because I didn't enter the correct PAK?t  4 Never mind.  I just found sys$manager:UCX$CONFIG.COM   --   Steve    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 00:23:48 -0400i( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> Subject: Re: Installing VMS , Message-ID: <41427DD4.3060001@tsoft-inc.com>   Steven Schoch wrote:   > David J. Dachtera wrote: > H >>> I got a copy of VMS 7.1 and installed it on my old AlphaStation 400 
 >>> 4/233.J >>>  That seemed to work ok, except I still need a license. (how long does< >>> it take to get one after filling out the Hobbyist form?) >> >> >>J >> It's mostly automated. You should get turn-around within ten minutes or >> so. >  > G > Ok!  I got it.  I think the first time I filled out the form my spam  & > filters must have trapped the reply. > 8 > So I did the $ LICENSE REGISTER command and it worked.    C Should not have.  A license needs to be LOADED in order to be used.a   >  I rebooted the  > system just to make sure.i    Q That's what helped you, though I don't want to indicate that VMS needs re-booted hM in any manner similar to windows.  (I hate the loss of my 'z' key, cause I'd  G rather write 'windoz'.)  During a boot, all active licenses are LOADED.-  . >  Now the console comes up with a DECWindows J > login screen.  However, when I attempt to login as SYSTEM, it pops up a H > window that says "LMF license check has failed."  When I click OK, it   > goes back to the login screen. > H > It appears I need a separate license for DECWindows.  I suppose I can D > get this from the form at the hobbyist site, but once I have that 5 > license, how do I get a command prompt to enter it?t    J It's been a while.  Something like ctrl-shift-F2 or such should shift the K decwindows screen so part of the screen is usable as a 'hardcopy' terminal.   F Or, do a minimum boot, and change startup files to disable DECwindows.  9 Or connect a terminal to COM1, and set console to SERIAL.   3 Best read the FAQ, I think such is discussed there.a     Dave   -- o4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Roadi Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 03:42:32 +0800w, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>. Subject: Re: Itanium not meeting Intel's goals0 Message-ID: <87k6v1zz9z.fsf@k9.prep.synonet.com>  , "Jack Peacock" <peacock@simconv.com> writes:  E > HP must be getting some kind of Dell-like price breaks on x86 partsiE > in return for their Itanium support.  It's ironic that VMS may well B > be kept alive by HP in order to maintain market share in Win x86 > boxes.  C hp is a co-owner of itanic; they should be setting their own price.e  E Carly should have some serious sharholder questions to answer if not,A or close to it.f   -- y< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 19:42:39 -0400 ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> . Subject: Re: Itanium not meeting Intel's goals; Message-ID: <NXq0d.44052$Nd6.1314385@news20.bellglobal.com>v  / "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message e& news:v7WdnXDjsqDoOtzcRVn-iA@igs.net...   [snip]  C > As a substitute processor for Itanic, Intel will offer HP a very  
 > interestingC3 > processor it has up its sleeve, code named "EV8".9 >eL > Intel will point out to HP that Intel has a team of engineers on-staff whoK > have been working on this processor and designs for follow-on processors a > for.K > years with great engineering success. Intel will also point out that VMS,eD > Tru64, and NSK can use the processor due to the interent lockstep  > built-in,CB > and that 'porting' to EV8 should be very simple for HP software  > engineering. > H > Intel will also mention that Microsoft has shown an interest in 64-bitJ > Windows on this processor family - having actually run 64-bit Windows on > "EV8's" earlier predecessors.  > G > HP will be hard pressed to ignore this EV8 processor from Intel - The^> > world's leading microprocessor designer. After all it's got  > industry-leadingC > performance today and in the future, scales easily, is extremely d > efficient,J > SMT capable today, and fits HP's current form-factor systems like it was > made for them. >   G So let me get this straight, It will be marked as IA-64 where the "IA" n stands for "Intel Alpha"?-   :-)-  
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,0 Ontario, Canada.8 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 15:14:11 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>c. Subject: Re: Maximum distance for VMS clusters, Message-ID: <4141FD02.A6AC3CEC@teksavvy.com>   Keith Parris wrote: I > I'm told there exists a disaster-tolerant VMS cluster in an undisclosed 6 > location with an inter-site distance of 3,000 miles.  L Does this mean that Dick Cheney's "secured and undisclosed" location is 3000  miles from the white house ? :-)  C > clusters. But the supported limit is still 500 miles at present. l  K Is this US or nautical miles ?  How was that number decided ? Is it more oraM less some random number, or does latency grow significantly beyond this pointeI ? Shouldn't the specs be updated to specify latency instead of distance ?   M Wouldn't latency also be affected by the telecom infrastructure itself ?  ForlM instance, with fibre links, isn't there a need to regenerate the signal everyaM 60km or so ? Does this add latency, or is signal regeneration more of a light N amplification as opposed to some bridge reading one end of a fibre and spewing6 out the same regenerated packets to some other fibre ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 15:20:37 -0400t- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> . Subject: Re: Maximum distance for VMS clusters, Message-ID: <4141FE83.A4366457@teksavvy.com>   John Smith wrote: F > Forgot to throw in those pesky North Koreans, whose inbound missilesK > luanched during the Louisiana hurricane sailed merrily past an unworkableoM > missile defense system (just to add a plausible (to some) man-made event to 
 > the mix)    L You forgot Canada's ability to generate severe winter weather and ice stormsH that could be sent down to the USA to wreak havok on electrical grid andI transportation systems. We are a far clearer dander to the USA than Northr5 Korea who could barely reach japan with its missiles.s  I On the other hand, just sending a small glitch to some ohio power stationr? could just bring down power for all of the eastern seaboard :-)e   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 17:21:36 -0400w# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>d. Subject: Re: Maximum distance for VMS clusters, Message-ID: <cbKdnRRG5L9Ch9_cRVn-pw@igs.net>   JF Mezei wrote:e > John Smith wrote: G >> Forgot to throw in those pesky North Koreans, whose inbound missilestA >> luanched during the Louisiana hurricane sailed merrily past anhG >> unworkable missile defense system (just to add a plausible (to some)i >> man-made event to the mix)y >t > G > You forgot Canada's ability to generate severe winter weather and iceV= > storms that could be sent down to the USA to wreak havok onsB > electrical grid and transportation systems. We are a far clearerF > dander to the USA than North Korea who could barely reach japan with > its missiles.n >eC > On the other hand, just sending a small glitch to some ohio powertE > station could just bring down power for all of the eastern seaboardt    B They didn't need any outside help - they managed to do that all by5 themselves because they were trying to cut corners on J maintenance.........which is somewhat the same as using Windows/Linux/unix# when you really need a VMS cluster.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 00:32:59 +0100n< From: "Alex Daniels" <AlexNOSPAMTHANKSDaniels@themail.co.uk>. Subject: Re: Maximum distance for VMS clusters6 Message-ID: <4142398f$0$22747$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>  ; "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message u& news:4141FD02.A6AC3CEC@teksavvy.com... <SNIP>  > Is this US or nautical miles ? <SNIP>  L 1. Who cares, if its works over that distance I'm sure any difference could  also be catered for.  K 2. The international mile is the one typically meant when the word mile is XI used without qualification. It is defined to be precisely 1,609.344 m or LH 5280 international feet. It is used in the United States and the United 0 Kingdom as part of the Imperial system of units.  * Please note the first sentence in point 2.  ) Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milet   Alex   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 00:13:45 -0400.( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>. Subject: Re: Maximum distance for VMS clusters, Message-ID: <41427B79.1030007@tsoft-inc.com>   John Smith wrote:    > Stanley F. Quayle wrote: > + >>On 9 Sep 2004 at 20:37, John Smith wrote:F >>F >>>I can just see it now....hurricane roars up through Lousiana, takesG >>>out one data center at the same time as a tornado in Texas takes outrH >>>the other, while the New Madrid fault slips and kills the quorum site >>>in St. Louise >>> 7 >>There are just some things you can't protect against.p >>D >>BUT you can kill a mission-critical Windows system with any one of# >>these.  VMS requires all three...  >> >  > F > Forgot to throw in those pesky North Koreans, whose inbound missilesK > luanched during the Louisiana hurricane sailed merrily past an unworkableiM > missile defense system (just to add a plausible (to some) man-made event toD
 > the mix)    K Why don't you just get it over with.  One c-charged rock.  One less planet.c     -- r4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Roade Vanderbilt, PA  15486T   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 23:55:57 -0400u( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>Y Subject: Re: Status of PL/I on Itanium (Was: Re: Canada's Equitable Life begins         me, Message-ID: <4142774D.8010501@tsoft-inc.com>   John Smith wrote:    > Bob Ceculski wrote:i > 0 >>"Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message7 >>news:<NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECICEEKDMAA.tom@kednos.com>...n >>G >>>We are planning to start a port in Q1 2005 and expect to take 6 to 9tF >>>months to get to a field test version.  These plans could change if: >>>HP drops Itanium.  Bart, what is your interest in PL/I? >>>a< >>and what makes you think HP is going to drop itanium after9 >>commiting all their os's to it?  That would be suicide!s >> >  > H > Not any more costly to sales than announcing the end of Alpha for some > half-baked Intel cpu.: >  >  >   ? And it's usually easier to do something the second time around.,   -- u4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486i   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 20:42:15 +0200.0 From: Keith Cayemberg <keith.cayemberg@arcor.de>' Subject: Re: Suggestion for file system,@ Message-ID: <4141f588$0$436$9b4e6d93@newsread2.arcor-online.net>   JF Mezei wrote:-  M > When you consider the various servers on VMS systems which generate, out of-= > security necessity, large log files, here is my suggestion:A > H > File system has both a start of file offset and an end of file offset. > M > This way, one could take a log file, release a whole bunch of blocks at thekO > start of file, and have the file header point to the new first block with thes@ > offset into that block pointing to the new first "record/byte" > K > This would allow constantly evolving files without the need to constantly J > manage log file names and switch log files etc etc. (as well as log fileL > version checking when log files do get close to the 32xxxx limit.) Since a: > single log file could live on for a very very long time.    C Interesting idea. Sort of a mini Spiralog capability for log files.h  I With a fixed-size log file the file beginning could be lost in step with nD the new  blocks appended at the end of the file. The implementation @ could resemble a "circular queue" implemented as a file. With a F variable-sized file a type of  check pointing could be implemented to G expire blocks from the beginning of the file according to a designated s delta-time.c  E Sounds like this capability would require at least its own file type TD designation if it were to be integrated into the existing RMS level I services. That would also require all relevant applications to know what  D to do when encountering such a file type. Or, should/must this be a H capability integrated at the I/O System Services level? Then I guess we F really would be talking about a new ODS-level file system. Either way / were talking about a potentially major project.d  @ However, I think for most purposes we already have much of this H capability at a logical level using $ SET FILE /VERSION_LIMIT. Missing, > of course, is the wrap-around of the version numbers at 32767.F Here, a comparatively small change would be needed to VMS. While this E would be mostly transparent to all OpenVMS applications, there would eD still be the problem of the new more recent file wrapping around to H version 1 while remaining older versions having a higher version number G near 32767. This would be a corrupting influence on applications which r8 assume a higher version number means a more recent file.  I One potential solution would be to limit version number wrapping only to  H files which have a "version limit" less than or equal to 32766 and have B an attribute set by a $ SET FILE /WRAP_VERSION command. Then when  version wrapping is required...t  8 - the version with the lowest version number is deleted.D - all other previous versions receive "consecutive" version numbers I preserving their sequential version number ordering. This is done with a  D renaming service (renaming is relatively fast) which preserves each  file's time-stamps.3L - the new file is then created as usual with the next higher version number.  G This "relatively" transparent capability still throws out the question >D of how full and incremental backups should react to this capability.     Cheers!r   Keith Cayembergt   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 21:00:16 +0200 0 From: Keith Cayemberg <keith.cayemberg@arcor.de>' Subject: Re: Suggestion for file systemo@ Message-ID: <4141f9c0$0$415$9b4e6d93@newsread2.arcor-online.net>   Keith Cayemberg wrote:   > JF Mezei wrote:  > H >> When you consider the various servers on VMS systems which generate, 	 >> out of > >> security necessity, large log files, here is my suggestion: >>I >> File system has both a start of file offset and an end of file offset.e >>H >> This way, one could take a log file, release a whole bunch of blocks 	 >> at the H >> start of file, and have the file header point to the new first block  >> with the A >> offset into that block pointing to the new first "record/byte"o >>L >> This would allow constantly evolving files without the need to constantlyK >> manage log file names and switch log files etc etc. (as well as log fileeF >> version checking when log files do get close to the 32xxxx limit.) 
 >> Since a; >> single log file could live on for a very very long time.  >  >  > E > Interesting idea. Sort of a mini Spiralog capability for log files.t > K > With a fixed-size log file the file beginning could be lost in step with  F > the new  blocks appended at the end of the file. The implementation B > could resemble a "circular queue" implemented as a file. With a H > variable-sized file a type of  check pointing could be implemented to I > expire blocks from the beginning of the file according to a designated n
 > delta-time.o > G > Sounds like this capability would require at least its own file type eF > designation if it were to be integrated into the existing RMS level K > services. That would also require all relevant applications to know what  F > to do when encountering such a file type. Or, should/must this be a J > capability integrated at the I/O System Services level? Then I guess we H > really would be talking about a new ODS-level file system. Either way 1 > were talking about a potentially major project.  > B > However, I think for most purposes we already have much of this J > capability at a logical level using $ SET FILE /VERSION_LIMIT. Missing, @ > of course, is the wrap-around of the version numbers at 32767.H > Here, a comparatively small change would be needed to VMS. While this G > would be mostly transparent to all OpenVMS applications, there would wF > still be the problem of the new more recent file wrapping around to J > version 1 while remaining older versions having a higher version number I > near 32767. This would be a corrupting influence on applications which t: > assume a higher version number means a more recent file. > K > One potential solution would be to limit version number wrapping only to oJ > files which have a "version limit" less than or equal to 32766 and have D > an attribute set by a $ SET FILE /WRAP_VERSION command. Then when ! > version wrapping is required...  > : > - the version with the lowest version number is deleted.F > - all other previous versions receive "consecutive" version numbers K > preserving their sequential version number ordering. This is done with a XF > renaming service (renaming is relatively fast) which preserves each  > file's time-stamps.IG > - the new file is then created as usual with the next higher version w	 > number.  > I > This "relatively" transparent capability still throws out the question lF > of how full and incremental backups should react to this capability. >  > 	 > Cheers!P >  > Keith Cayemberg-  F Excuse me for replying to my own posting. But, it just occurred to be G the sequence of actions I described for version wrapping would be also  E "corrupting" if the last action "create new file" failed repeatedly. aF Consequently, the first action I listed "delete file with lowest file I version" should actually be done last, and only if the "create new file" w is successful.  H This perhaps gives a glimpse of how carefully one must consider all the I possibilities when designing such base functionality of a complex system.l= Probably, I've still not considered many other special cases.    Cheers!    Keith Cayembergn   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 15:41:10 -0500 (CDT)n From: sms@antinode.orgP Subject: Re: TSM hates my DECnet version (Was: TSM won't accept my circuit name)) Message-ID: <04091015411056@antinode.org>y   From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk  5 > >ALP $ write sys$output f$getsyi( "DECNET_VERSION")o > >00050500i	 > > [...]eI > >   From my Info-VAX archives, I see that I'm not the only one with VMS L > >V7.3-1 whose "NCL SHOW VERSION" result is "T5.0.3".  (Which looks bad all > >by itself.  "T"?)  " > Well I have Alphas on VMS 7.3-1    > Alpha2:sh sys/noprocN > OpenVMS V7.3-1  on node ALPHA2  10-SEP-2004 17:14:30.69  Uptime  40 03:18:02 >  > and although I get   m >  > Alpha2:mcr ncl show version  > [...]t0 >     Version                           = T5.0.3 >  > I get  > 5 > Alpha2:write sys$output f$getsyi( "DECNET_VERSION")o
 > 00050E04  E    Hmmm.  "0E" seems to be a step up (or nine steps up) from "05".  I-F seem to be out of step (again).  I also seem to have installed an ECO,? "DEC AXPVMS DNVOSIECO02 V7.3-1", which is the only one I see atu6 "ftp://ftp.itrc.hp.com/openvms_patches/alpha/V7.3-1/".  ?    Anyone with other interesting data is welcome to contribute.l  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode-orgd    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547f   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 00:42:35 -0400e( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>P Subject: Re: TSM hates my DECnet version (Was: TSM won't accept my circuit name), Message-ID: <4142823B.5050105@tsoft-inc.com>   david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:   D > In article <04091010001710@antinode.org>, sms@antinode.org writes: > ' >>From: Bart.Zorn@xs4all.nl (Bart Zorn)i >> >>B >>>I have installed TSMECO06021 on V7.3-2 with DECnet-Plus without >>>problems! >>>[...] >>>fG >>  From a quick look at a TSM KITINSTAL.COM, I'd guess that I'm doomed I >>by my weird DECnet version, which seems to be out of step with the rest  >>of the universe: >>4 >>ALP $ write sys$output f$getsyi( "DECNET_VERSION")
 >>00050500 >> >>This gets split into: ! >>     decnet_major_version =   5I" >>     decnet_minor_version = "05"" >>     decnet_ECO           = "00" >>4 >>  Comments in KITINSTAL.COM (TSMECO08021) suggest: >>N >>$ ! f$getsyi("DECNET_VERSION") will return a long word the contents of which >>$ ! is as follows: >>$ !e >>$ !    000XYYZZ  where : >>$ !e< >>$ !      X - the DECnet architecture type, i.e. a 5 or a 4D >>$ !      YY - The DECnet version number, for phase 5 this will be:! >>$ !            07 - Version 6.1d! >>$ !            08 - Version 6.2r! >>$ !            09 - Version 6.3w' >>$ !            0a - Unrelease version-! >>$ !            0b - version 7.0,! >>$ !            0c - Version 7.1 ! >>$ !            0d - Version 7.2MJ >>$ !      ZZ - This is the ECO number currently installed for the version >>$ !           running. >>C >>Thus, "00050500" appears to be much older than it really must be.p >>G >>  From my Info-VAX archives, I see that I'm not the only one with VMSaK >>V7.3-1 whose "NCL SHOW VERSION" result is "T5.0.3".  (Which looks bad alla >>by itself.  "T"?)  >>I >>  I'd be interested to see what folks with VMS V7.3 and V7.3-2 get from I >>f$getsyi( "DECNET_VERSION") (and/or "NCL SHOW VERSION").  I assume it's 4 >>more reasonable than "00050500" (and/or "T5.0.3"). >>G >>  If anyone knows what trouble I'll cause if I warp the KITINSTAL.COMtH >>to turn "00050500" into one of those values, I'd also be interested in >>that.h >> >> > " > Well I have Alphas on VMS 7.3-1  >  > Alpha2:sh sys/noprocN > OpenVMS V7.3-1  on node ALPHA2  10-SEP-2004 17:14:30.69  Uptime  40 03:18:02 >  > and although I get   n >  > Alpha2:mcr ncl show version  >  > Node 0& > at 2004-09-10-16:54:54.237+01:00Iinf >  > Characteristicsn > 0 >     Version                           = T5.0.3 >  >  > I get  > 5 > Alpha2:write sys$output f$getsyi( "DECNET_VERSION")i
 > 00050E04 >  > David Webb > Security team leader > CCSS > Middlesex University >  >   L Now don't you all remember my advice on using DECnet IV?  Damn kids, always 4 gotta play with fire.  Then cry when they get burnt.   -- e4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Roads Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 22:21:41 GMTr) From: Antonio Carlini <arcarlini@iee.org>tY Subject: Re: TSM hates my DECnet version (Was: TSM won't accept my circuit name) name)name& Message-ID: <414228F8.1010403@iee.org>   sms@antinode.org wrote:;  G >    Hmmm.  "0E" seems to be a step up (or nine steps up) from "05".  IaH > seem to be out of step (again).  I also seem to have installed an ECO,A > "DEC AXPVMS DNVOSIECO02 V7.3-1", which is the only one I see at:8 > "ftp://ftp.itrc.hp.com/openvms_patches/alpha/V7.3-1/". > A >    Anyone with other interesting data is welcome to contribute.n  ; The NCL SHOW VERSION is always uninteresting - I believe itt@ has been at T5.0.3 since slightly before forever and is unlikely
 to change.  ? As for your DECNET_VERSION - something looks seriously hosed to > say the least. I cannot find the right notebook at the moment,? but you seem to have a version V5.6 (DECnet) or earlier system.c  < This seems incredibly unlikely - particularly since I assume; you've maanaged to boot your Alpha far enough to be able toh log in and look :-).  = Perhaps you have some old cruft lying around in SYS$SPECIFIC: > that gets loaded, but somehow causes no ill effects other than< to load the appropriate system cell with this value. I don't- recall which DECnet execlet does this though.i   Antoniot   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 18:20:28 -0400i) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca>l- Subject: Re: TSM won't accept my circuit nameo; Message-ID: <JKp0d.42853$Nd6.1297516@news20.bellglobal.com>e  ; "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message e- news:Xnc+ZVO+OaSv@eisner.encompasserve.org... < > In article <chretg$20f19@doiweb4.b2x.vwg>, Karl Rohwedder ' > <emil.mustermann@t-online.de> writes:a >> Larry Kilgallen wrote:  >> [...snip...] >>I >>                In addition, a new logical name, TSM$SERVICE_CIRCUITS, n	 >> allows  >TI > I have searched the release notes for the version specified above and I: > do not find that text.  K This exact thing happened to me. If an error occurs when loading TSM patch  I #7, an unannounced rollback will take place and you will not see any new cF documentation (which means you won't find anything related to the new @ logical name). You must answer "NO" to the next question during 
 installation.-  C Do you want service enabled in the installation procedure [YES]? nok  / Please see the following link for more details:-7 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/docs/tsm_on_alpha.htmlk    
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.9 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html s   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 16:27:00 -0400t# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>t Subject: VMS in Datmationo, Message-ID: <IrCdnQUexLmJk9_cRVn-tA@igs.net>   Remaining Vehemently OpenVMS  K Tossing aside thoughts of the latest operating systems, the Albert Einstein@H Healthcare Network in Philadelphia just bought a new OpenVMS system. For? them, it's definitely not out with the old and in with the new.r  8 http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/erp/article.php/3406641   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 19:33:22 -0400t- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>l Subject: Re: VMS in Datmationa, Message-ID: <414239C1.2818C33E@teksavvy.com>   John Smith wrote: M > Tossing aside thoughts of the latest operating systems, the Albert EinsteinsG > Healthcare Network in Philadelphia just bought a new OpenVMS system. 0: > http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/erp/article.php/3406641  - Good article. But as the following text says:r   ##H There were some IBM  mainframe and Windows solutions offered as possible@ alternatives, but  they didn't justify moving off  VMS/Alpha.''  ##  6 This was an existing VMS customer. Not a new customer.  L But the article is nevertheless quite good despite a few minor inaccuracies.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 16:41:03 -0700o# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>f Subject: RE: VMS License Help 9 Message-ID: <NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECICEGODMAA.tom@kednos.com>   I If you have the requisite skills, PL/I is also available for the Hobbyistr form our site, www.kednos.comt     >-----Original Message-----i( >From: VLC User [mailto:VLCuser@vax.com]) >Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 9:16 AMo >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >Subject: Re: VMS License Help >  >- >-I >>> I successfully got my VAX-VMS Hobbyist license for my VLC, but eithervG >>> procedures have changed or my mind is deteriorating because I can't J >>> locate where to get the additional licenses (UCX, FORTRAN, etc.).  Can+ >>> anyone help me out?  Thanks in advance!a >tI >>You get the layered products licenses (including Fortran etc.) from the(C >>same place as the OS licenses.  On the form you complete there iso	 >an item, C >>"License Type".  It is as default set to OpenVMS VAX, you need tot
 >change itK >>to Layered Products and complete the form.  That'll get you another email B >>with the required licenses.  This is immediately after where you >enter yourn >>email address. >> >> >>Doc. >mA >Thanks, Doc.  I didn't recall the Layered Products being in thato? >drop-down box before, but like I said I may be losing my mind.u >  >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.d; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).tA >Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 8/19/2004  >e ---s& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 8/19/2004   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 14:11:04 -0400e' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com>s& Subject: RE: VMS marketing opportunityR Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB45CD93@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message----- > From: Barker, Nigel=20# > Sent: September 10, 2004 12:44 PMb > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coma( > Subject: Re: VMS marketing opportunity >=206 > On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 12:32:33 -0400, "Main, Kerry"=20 > <kerry.main@hp.com> wrote: >=20H > >Btw, meant to mention that on the news yesterday, Ontario Hydro has a> > >convey of hydro trucks heading to Florida to assist with=20 > power recovery.A >=209 > That will be a hell of a long cable all the way from=20i > Toronto!. Next time perhapsrA > they could haul optical cable as well & encourage the growth=20T > of US-Canadian# > disaster tolerant VMS clusters:-)o >=20 > -- > Nigel Barker! > Live from the sunny Cote d'Azur      Nigel,  H Well they did some analysis and figured it would not be that bad as most of the distance is down hill.e   :-)e  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultante HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660- Fax: 613-591-4477M kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  $ "OpenVMS has always had integrity .. Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .." =20    ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 20:05:23 +0000 (UTC)W, From: lewis@PROBE.MITRE.ORG (Keith A. Lewis)? Subject: Re: Well, my VAX won't make a year of uptime after alle. Message-ID: <cht1e3$i9j$1@newslocal.mitre.org>  r bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes in article <2q9lfuFt9o8hU1@uni-berlin.de> dated 9 Sep 2004 00:12:46 GMT:/ >In article <chnvu0$edh$2@newslocal.mitre.org>,l0 >	lewis@PROBE.MITRE.ORG (Keith A. Lewis) writes:u >> bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes in article <2q968jFt029aU2@uni-berlin.de> dated 8 Sep 2004 19:52:51 GMT: P >>>Don't expect that to work if you actually expect anyone to accept your email.K >>>Most places today reject mail where the name presented doesn't match thed >>>reverse dns lookup, N >> iM >> I haven't had any problem like that.  I have a static IP from my ISP and a M >> domain through godaddy.com.  The IP maps to the ISP's domain.  Heck, TCPIPtK >> services even supports multiple e-mail domains on a single IP.  Somebodyb( >> must use that feature (legitimately). >tL >You don't have a dynamic address, that's the point.  That protects you fromL >ORBS. But if you lie about who you are then other sites will reject you forH >it.  If you have a legitimate MX that maps to your real IP address then	 >your OK.t  K I guess it was the term "reverse dns lookup" that threw me.  I thought thateG meant taking a numeric IP address and translating that to a name.  ThatnF works for most dynamically-assigned IPs, although it will translate toA something with the ISP's name on it, just like my static IP will.   I Doing a regular MX record lookup for validation is a different thing.  It F could potentially bite a company/ISP who uses a particular gateway forL outgoing e-mail only -- their external DNS servers wouldn't mention it in MX records.  0 --Keith Lewis              klewis {at} mitre.org> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Sep 2004 11:04:21 -0700. From: fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso)+ Subject: Re: why mainframes are still used? = Message-ID: <f30679fb.0409101004.260699ca@posting.google.com>a  t Andrew Harrison <andrew_remove__s._harrison@s_u_n.com> wrote in message news:<chp31m$f1u$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>... > JF Mezei wrote:-% > > Mainframes have 2 selling points:0 > > N > > On a technical basis, I think that where IBM mainframes historically had aU > > large edge was in IO throughput. (I think this could be debated nowadays though).t > >  > B > The Sun E10K took the I/O crown away from IBM and it hasn't been > returned.. > F > SGI fans might claim that SGI snatched it first but SGI Origins haveI > never really ventured into the large commercial batch processing space.   @ A few years ago the company saved money not buying a new Origin.I Instead they mounted a Beowulf with 32 Compaq DL servers (2 x CPUs) each.uH And this system outperformed the Origin in price (> 50%) and processing.   RegardsC   Fc G     	 > Regards  > Andrew HarrisonuP > > From a management point of view, it isn't so much the mainframe per say, butQ > > the software that runs on it. If you are a bank and your banking software and R > > databases are already on the mainframe since they have always been there, thenM > > you are more likely to continue to run that solid software and either add Q > > software to your mainframe, or connect some lesser machines to your mainframeo+ > > to make use of the mainframe databases.  > > Q > > Consider banking web site or telephone applications. The web or telephone appkP > > may run on UNXI, but they connect to the IBM mainframe to perform the actualM > > transactions. Same for ATM and interbank networks which may run on tandemtQ > > machines for total uptime, but the tandem ends up sending the transactions tot > > the IBM mainframe. > > R > > Once you've built an ecosystem around your mainframe, it is quite difficult to. > > remove/change the heart of that ecosystem.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 14:21:00 -0400r/ From: Mike Albanese <mj_albanese@pacificbb.net>E+ Subject: Re: why mainframes are still used?d0 Message-ID: <10k3s40kta2emd2@corp.supernews.com>   Mike Bartman wrote:l   > DEC had TOPS-10 and TOPS-20. >  > Cray had COS and UniCOS. > $ > CDC used NOS and NOS-BE I believe.    B Honeywell used GCOS and Multics. Bull still sells mainframe-class C systems with GCOS7 and GCOS8, but they seem to be moving away from 07 proprietary processor designs toward the Intel Itanium::  - 	http://www.bull.com/servers/gcos8/index.htmlD    D I think Bull still has the Multics software, however it most likely ; can't be run today since Multics required special hardware.r  G IMO, some of the last mainframes Honeywell produced before selling out iF to Bull were visually striking, regardless of what you thought of the F insides. They had tall, menacing-black cabinets with futuristic model D lettering down the side. In a modern room with raised white floors, F subdued lighting, and the loud hum of fans and air conditioners, they G seemed like something right out of the latest (at that time) Star Trek   movie.   Mike     -- n3 (for email address, change 'pacific' to 'atlantic')s   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 12:13:57 -0700r* From: "Jack Peacock" <peacock@simconv.com>+ Subject: Re: why mainframes are still used?a2 Message-ID: <VZednXkuPNZrYdzcRVn-sQ@mpowercom.net>  / "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message  3 news:NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECIMEGFDMAA.tom@kednos.com...n> > < Triple-redundancy 360 CPUs in the 60's would have made IBM > < uncompetitive in" > < cost with Univac and the rest.I > I don't think it would have affected cost at all.  I recall that aroundaG > 1965 a CDC6600 cost about the same as a Boeing 707 base price $3x10^6t > <   Jack Peacock > <uL If there are two machines, say a 360 and a PDP-10 at same basic performance I levels, but the 360 has three times the electronics, three times as many  M cabinets, three times the A/C and power, how are they going to be priced the sG same?  Triple voting CPUs means three complete processors operating in eB lockstep.  No way the cost for this in the 60's was insignificant.  M I don't think there were very many 360s that ever replaced Cyber 6600s.  For e( one thing IBM never had 60-bit machines.   Jack Peacock     ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 15:21:56 -0700d* From: "Jack Peacock" <peacock@simconv.com>+ Subject: Re: why mainframes are still used?82 Message-ID: <M72dnSIl_aSYtN_cRVn-jg@mpowercom.net>  < "Mike Bartman" <omni@foolie.omniphile.com> wrote in message 2 news:83i3k0tjklvg1orhi0edruof9qhd157oe2@4ax.com... > DEC had TOPS-10 and TOPS-20.5 There were customer OSes too, TENEX and a few others.s  $ > CDC used NOS and NOS-BE I believe. >oK Before NOS there was KRONOS, CDC's commercial OS; and SCOPE, the barebones sI OS for heavy duty computational work.  SCOPE had basic file and resource  I management but not much else.  It did (eventually) get a crude timeshare  L option (INTERCOM?) but it was intended for batch operations running FORTRAN.  M Univac 1100s used an OS called EXEC.  Nothing fancy but it got the job done, MK providing the drums "accidently" fell out a window from several stories up eJ and were replaced by real disks.  EXEC 8 was comparable to CDC's SCOPE in J features.  Heresy for the DECcies, but I always thought early 70's Univac G 1100 dual processors (1108 and up) compared well with PDP-10s and TOPS.m   Jack Peacock ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 16:25:37 -0700l# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>o+ Subject: RE: why mainframes are still used?e9 Message-ID: <NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECIMEGMDMAA.tom@kednos.com>e   < -----Original Message-----1 < From: Jack Peacock [mailto:peacock@simconv.com]s* < Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 3:22 PM < To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comr- < Subject: Re: why mainframes are still used?s <  <r= < "Mike Bartman" <omni@foolie.omniphile.com> wrote in messages4 < news:83i3k0tjklvg1orhi0edruof9qhd157oe2@4ax.com...  < > DEC had TOPS-10 and TOPS-20.7 < There were customer OSes too, TENEX and a few others.  <e& < > CDC used NOS and NOS-BE I believe. < > B < Before NOS there was KRONOS, CDC's commercial OS; and SCOPE, the < barebonesFJ < OS for heavy duty computational work.  SCOPE had basic file and resourceJ < management but not much else.  It did (eventually) get a crude timeshare= < option (INTERCOM?) but it was intended for batch operationsn < running FORTRAN.F Well, before SCOPE there was the Chippewa Operating system, which  had AscentI and Asper for assembly coding of Central processor (60 bit) and perpheral K processors (18bit).  Originally the access method for disks was sequential,c6 Dave Redhead at Boeing wrote the Random access drivers < @ < Univac 1100s used an OS called EXEC.  Nothing fancy but it got < the job done,UA < providing the drums "accidently" fell out a window from severals < stories upK < and were replaced by real disks.  EXEC 8 was comparable to CDC's SCOPE intK < features.  Heresy for the DECcies, but I always thought early 70's Univac-I < 1100 dual processors (1108 and up) compared well with PDP-10s and TOPS.@ <   Jack Peacock <c <R < ---m( < Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.< < Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).B < Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 8/19/2004 <b ---m& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 8/19/2004   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 16:33:11 -0700w# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> + Subject: RE: why mainframes are still used?o9 Message-ID: <NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECIIEGNDMAA.tom@kednos.com>f  D I was using that as an example of the cost of computers at the time.@ Having a triply redundnant cpu unit was an added expense but not0 significant in the overall cost of the system.     < -----Original Message-----1 < From: Jack Peacock [mailto:peacock@simconv.com]y+ < Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 12:14 PMy < To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Come- < Subject: Re: why mainframes are still used?. <  < 1 < "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message n5 < news:NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECIMEGFDMAA.tom@kednos.com...-@ < > < Triple-redundancy 360 CPUs in the 60's would have made IBM < > < uncompetitive in$ < > < cost with Univac and the rest.K < > I don't think it would have affected cost at all.  I recall that aroundwI < > 1965 a CDC6600 cost about the same as a Boeing 707 base price $3x10^6u < > <   Jack Peacock < > <aB < If there are two machines, say a 360 and a PDP-10 at same basic  < performance K < levels, but the 360 has three times the electronics, three times as many .D < cabinets, three times the A/C and power, how are they going to be 
 < priced the dI < same?  Triple voting CPUs means three complete processors operating in 0D < lockstep.  No way the cost for this in the 60's was insignificant. < C < I don't think there were very many 360s that ever replaced Cyber   < 6600s.  For * < one thing IBM never had 60-bit machines. <   Jack Peacock - <  <  < ----( < Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.< < Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).B < Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 8/19/2004 <  ----& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 8/19/2004   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 16:37:21 -0700i# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>l+ Subject: RE: why mainframes are still used?o9 Message-ID: <NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECIOEGNDMAA.tom@kednos.com>n  9 I did the first, Nigel, I didn't understand your request.i   >-----Original Message----- ) >From: Nigel Barker [mailto:nigel@hp.com]e* >Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 10:39 AM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com, >Subject: Re: why mainframes are still used? >  >rL >On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 13:02:59 -0400, David M Smith <dsmit115@csc.com> wrote: > = >>Tom -- if it's all the same to you, I would love for you to' >change your "quote"A >>character in your newsreader from < to >. It would make readingb >your posts so) >>much easier (for me, and maybe others).e >iL >I'll vote for that too. If you could trim to context too that would be even >better. >c >-- 
 >Nigel Barkera  >Live from the sunny Cote d'Azur >- >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.4; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).uA >Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 8/19/2004i >b --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 8/19/2004   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 03:07:48 GMTg5 From: Bruno Saverio Delbono <bruno.s.delbono@mail.ac> + Subject: Re: why mainframes are still used?e- Message-ID: <8_t0d.367210$M95.50413@pd7tw1no>    Hi Tom,i   Tom Linden wrote:/; > I did the first, Nigel, I didn't understand your request.i  I Certain mail etiquette would be good. Please do not top post, and do not  H quote excessively. Sorting thru your replies is by far the hardest part G I've found when reading your replies. Please be considerate and try to  4 format your posts by refrain from excessive quoting.  ( > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.< > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).B > Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 8/19/2004  I I can understand this is good thing, but do you really need to advertise?,   Regards,   -Bruno   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 01:26:21 -0400e. From: Mike Bartman <omni@foolie.omniphile.com>+ Subject: Re: why mainframes are still used?F8 Message-ID: <0235k0tbr4stl0evr05lovgtfopc3ftcaq@4ax.com>  , On 10 Sep 2004 13:34:45 -0400, Rich Alderson& <news@alderson.users.panix.com> wrote:  1 >Mike Bartman <omni@foolie.omniphile.com> writes:  >eE >> In the last few years at a show I've seen a company selling PDP-10gF >> clones that use modern technology (the whole TOPS-10 running systemH >> could fit under a large desk) so that folks with legacy apps can keepE >> running them without spending so much on maintenance and power andwH >> space.  Don't remember the name of the company though...it wasn't one >> of the majors.h >gH >That would have been XKL.  The Toad-1 was the size of a two-drawer file	 >cabinet.t >h7 >I'm the one who ran the show booth you'd have visited.   ? Hello again then!  Thanks for the info.  I think the show was ai3 Fed-Expo in D.C., probably sometime in the mid-90s.   ? Are Toad-1 machines still being sold?  If so, how much?  DEC-10b@ assembler was actually kind of fun, and I think I've still got aF Simila-10 release tape around here somewhere...though it's unlikely to, still be readable after 24 years in a box...  
 -- Mike B.
 -- Mike B.  
 '04 FLSTCI  @ ----------------------------------------------------------------=   To reply via e-mail, remove the 'foolie.' from the address.e%   I'm getting sick of all the SPAM...a@ ----------------------------------------------------------------   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 00:40:01 -0400f( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>, Subject: Re: [OT]: The state of CS education, Message-ID: <414281A1.2030006@tsoft-inc.com>   VAXman- wrote:  W > In article <2qdljdFu7b75U1@uni-berlin.de>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:, > > >>In article <f30679fb.0409100223.620f808@posting.google.com>,3 >>	fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso) writes:M >>I >>>IT /CS  is not a good option nowadays. I am happy because my youngest  < >>>brother entered at the Uni. in the Chem. Engineer career. >>>oI >>Some may not agree with you, as pointed out in an article pointed to by ! >>our own illustrious John Smith:nJ >>     http://www.informationweek.com/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=29100069 >>C >>    "Indeed, over the next decade, the Bureau of Labor Statisticse@ >>     sees the need for an additional 307,000 computer-softwareC >>     engineers, 184,000 systems analysts, 106,000 network-systemsn? >>     and data-communications analysts, and 103,000 managers."  >>6 >                                              ^^^^^^^G > Wow!  That will be good for the bartender/mixologist profession.  AlltH > those new martini guzzlers will certainly put a tax on the behind-the-H > bar worker when it's time for their 10am-3pm management lunch hour.  IG > foresee other new jobs too...  More police to pull over these drunks.iG > More billable law(lie)yer hours when they need to defend these drunkssJ > in court for DWI charges, and more insurance company workers to handle  H > the insurance surcharges for said DWIs.  This would increase these re-I > quirement number for IT professionals as they will be needed to install.< > the new systems to track all of these management offenses. > G > Also, that's 1 drone-bee for every 5.6 worker-bees.  That's certainlyh0 > an over inflated requirement from where I sit. >  s >   O Aw, comon Brian, you're too focused.  You forgot who is issuing these numbers. bH For the government, a 1:5.6 is actually too many workers and not enough  managers.  :-)   Dave   -- a4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Roadk Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.504 ************************