1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 11 Sep 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 505       Contents:2 Re: I'm giving up computers if this is the future.2 Re: I'm giving up computers if this is the future.2 Re: I'm giving up computers if this is the future.2 Re: I'm giving up computers if this is the future. Re: Installing VMS" KZPBA-CB on AlphaServer 1000 4/200P RE: Status of PL/I on Itanium (Was: Re: Canada's Equitable Life begins         mG Re: TSM hates my DECnet version (Was: TSM won't accept my circuit name) P Re: TSM hates my DECnet version (Was: TSM won't accept my circuit name) name)nam Re: VMS marketing opportunity 6 Re: Well, my VAX won't make a year of uptime after all" Re: why mainframes are still used?" Re: why mainframes are still used?" RE: why mainframes are still used?" RE: why mainframes are still used?" Re: why mainframes are still used?" Re: why mainframes are still used?" Re: why mainframes are still used?" Re: why mainframes are still used?
 [OT] Today  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 01:55:02 -0400 . From: Mike Bartman <omni@foolie.omniphile.com>; Subject: Re: I'm giving up computers if this is the future. 8 Message-ID: <f735k098d1f07ml6hnl8gchf4onaaule4i@4ax.com>  / On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 20:55:32 -0400, Undisclosed ( <nomail@dontbeaweaselspammer.com> wrote:  ! >VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:  > N >> Would anyone be wanting a 1U rack mount Pentium III before I decide to take@ >> a lead pipe to it in order to relieve my frustration with it? >>  O >> 2 freaking days already of trying to get reflection's file transfer protocol 0 >> to work.  Their support droids are useless.   >>  N >> If PeeCee/Weendoze is the future, I am buying myself a hot dog cart today! O >> How the hell can people use such shite and actually purport to be productive O >> at their jobs?  I hate this shite more and more and more everyday because it N >> has infiltrated customer environments and I have to debug software problems? >> in conjunction with users using these shite "inhell" boxes.   >>   > # >there's nothing wrong with the PC.   F There's a lot wrong with the PC (assuming you mean the IBM clones, not the generic term).      > How about that whole IRQ thing?  That bus that Apple once usedE (Nu-bus?) had addressable expansion slots, so you just plugged a card D in and it knew it's address "instinctively"...no need to fiddle with@ settings or hope that the "plug and pray" system would manage toE autoconfigure it so your system would work properly with the new card 
 like on a PC.   E How about the whole "can't address a drive over xxx megabytes" thing? A (that we went through more than once as drives *continued* to get B bigger...like nobody thought that would happen after the first twoE times and came up with a scheme that wasn't closed-ended???)  And all C the various ways different companies came up with to get around it?   C How about that crappy Intel 80x86 architecture, that has no general C purpose registers at all (there are instructions that can *only* be D used with one particular register, and which register that is variesD with the instruction in question...every register gets used this wayD at one time or another), resulting in *lots* of instructions that doF nothing but shuffle data from the register it's in to the one it needsF to be in for the next instruction to work.  At least the non-real-modeC addressing has gotten rid of that rediculous segmented memory model E and the pain and suffering it exacted...you couldn't even compare two B pointers without "normalizing" them first (stuffing as much of the/ address into the segment register as possible).   D And the flash upgrades of motherboards that, if anything goes wrong,E leaves you with a dead bit of chip-jewelry?  How about a ROM with the B flash program in it and a reset so you can try again to load a new? BIOS???  That one's not IBM's fault...they didn't have a way to 2 upgrade the BIOS without plugging in a new chip...  @ For an overgrown cash register (which is what it was...), the PCE wasn't bad.  As a good computer design it lacks big time.  There were = better machines out at the time...they just didn't have "IBM" F stencilled on them.  The Victor 9000 for instance.  800x600 monochromeE non-glare screen with dot-addressable graphics, VT-52 escape codes in E the BIOS for text output with special effects, 1.2 meg variable speed B double sided quad-density 5.25" floppies (the IBM machine had 160KC single sided, single density drives), and the screen brightness and > contrast were controllable with software or from the keyboard.E Standard memory was 256K (IBM was 64K).  About the only place the IBM D beat it was in the expansion bus...the Victor had a connector on the@ back that brought all the CPU lines and some MB lines out for anF expansion box, but no place for individual cards.  The Sage was a niceA machine too...ran Unix on an M68000 and came stock with an MS-DOS @ emulator that ran as fast as an original PC ran it.  it was also, smaller than a PC (bit under half the size).  G >there's a whole hell of a lot wrong with Windows (even as I type this  I >from there.. sorry, I'm tired. I don't mix access to rm -rf with a lack  
 >of sleep)  D No argument there...and it's getting worse while it gets better.  XPF is not something I'll ever run on a desktop.  In my laptop, which cameC with it and which I'm unlikely to ever change the hardware on, it's ? tollerable for now (I've already made sure Linux will run on it  though...just in case.  
 -- Mike B.  @ ----------------------------------------------------------------=   To reply via e-mail, remove the 'foolie.' from the address. %   I'm getting sick of all the SPAM... @ ----------------------------------------------------------------   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 03:28:39 -0400 3 From: Undisclosed <nomail@dontbeaweaselspammer.com> ; Subject: Re: I'm giving up computers if this is the future. 0 Message-ID: <CsWdnR21s4WvNN_cRVn-oA@comcast.com>   Mike Bartman wrote:      > H > There's a lot wrong with the PC (assuming you mean the IBM clones, not > the generic term).     > @ > How about that whole IRQ thing?  That bus that Apple once usedG > (Nu-bus?) had addressable expansion slots, so you just plugged a card F > in and it knew it's address "instinctively"...no need to fiddle withB > settings or hope that the "plug and pray" system would manage toG > autoconfigure it so your system would work properly with the new card  > like on a PC.   J I haven't had a problem with "plug and pray" since I gave up ISA and EISA.  A everyone uses PCI and the derivatives now. Even Apple(!) and Sun.   G > How about the whole "can't address a drive over xxx megabytes" thing? C > (that we went through more than once as drives *continued* to get D > bigger...like nobody thought that would happen after the first twoG > times and came up with a scheme that wasn't closed-ended???)  And all E > the various ways different companies came up with to get around it?   $ is there a generic solution to this?  E > How about that crappy Intel 80x86 architecture, that has no general E > purpose registers at all (there are instructions that can *only* be F > used with one particular register, and which register that is variesF > with the instruction in question...every register gets used this wayF > at one time or another), resulting in *lots* of instructions that doH > nothing but shuffle data from the register it's in to the one it needs. > to be in for the next instruction to work.    G AMD-64 adds a comfortable number of registers. It's not the SPARC with  " 32 GP registers, but it's not bad.   At least the non-real-modeE > addressing has gotten rid of that rediculous segmented memory model G > and the pain and suffering it exacted...you couldn't even compare two D > pointers without "normalizing" them first (stuffing as much of the1 > address into the segment register as possible).   C dude, segments have been dead for everything but control by the OS   kernel itself since the 386.  F > And the flash upgrades of motherboards that, if anything goes wrong,G > leaves you with a dead bit of chip-jewelry?  How about a ROM with the D > flash program in it and a reset so you can try again to load a newA > BIOS???  That one's not IBM's fault...they didn't have a way to 4 > upgrade the BIOS without plugging in a new chip...  D if you are buying a server or high-end PC, you can get one with two @ flash memories full of BIOS. One dies - you switch to the other.  ; it's not on cheap boards, but you can get it pretty easily.   B > For an overgrown cash register (which is what it was...), the PCG > wasn't bad.  As a good computer design it lacks big time.  There were ? > better machines out at the time...they just didn't have "IBM" H > stencilled on them.  The Victor 9000 for instance.  800x600 monochromeG > non-glare screen with dot-addressable graphics, VT-52 escape codes in G > the BIOS for text output with special effects, 1.2 meg variable speed D > double sided quad-density 5.25" floppies (the IBM machine had 160KE > single sided, single density drives), and the screen brightness and @ > contrast were controllable with software or from the keyboard.G > Standard memory was 256K (IBM was 64K).  About the only place the IBM F > beat it was in the expansion bus...the Victor had a connector on theB > back that brought all the CPU lines and some MB lines out for anH > expansion box, but no place for individual cards.  The Sage was a niceC > machine too...ran Unix on an M68000 and came stock with an MS-DOS B > emulator that ran as fast as an original PC ran it.  it was also. > smaller than a PC (bit under half the size).   ahh, a hardware geek. ;)  ( never heard of those machines, actually.  C as for the expansion bus... ISA is one of the major reasons the PC  
 florished.  7 Sage sounds quite a bit like the original Sun machines.   I I agree with your general points that the PC, when it started out, was a   wretched architecture.  2 but it's had 20 years to rub away the sharp edges.  < Opteron stomps the PPC 970, Itanic, and SPARC on most tasks.  I the only thing that really beats it is the full-scale POWER architecture.   B it's too bad we won't see competition between Opteron, POWER, and E Alpha... that would have been a real fight where the consumers would  	 have won.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 09:40:58 +0200 - From: Didier Morandi <prenom.nom@freesurf.fr> ; Subject: Re: I'm giving up computers if this is the future. 4 Message-ID: <4142ac0f$0$15567$636a15ce@news.free.fr>    VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:  M > Would anyone be wanting a 1U rack mount Pentium III before I decide to take ? > a lead pipe to it in order to relieve my frustration with it?  > N > 2 freaking days already of trying to get reflection's file transfer protocol/ > to work.  Their support droids are useless.    > L > If PeeCee/Weendoze is the future, I am buying myself a hot dog cart today!  $ Stop trollin' and go Air Softin' :-)   D.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 12:31:45 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG; Subject: Re: I'm giving up computers if this is the future. 0 Message-ID: <00A37B62.42A14DBD@SendSpamHere.ORG>  ` In article <41425D5B.67F8EB40@comcast.net>, David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes:" >VAXman-, @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: >>  N >> Would anyone be wanting a 1U rack mount Pentium III before I decide to take@ >> a lead pipe to it in order to relieve my frustration with it? >  >How much you want for it?  B Sorry my good VMS and c.o.v friends but friends do NOT let friends do Weendoze!    C Anyway, everytime I am forced into a corner with one of these shite C boxes nothing goes smoothly and I need to vent.  It was either post C here or put my fist through the wall again.  The choice was obvious B because I couldn't find any plasterboard space that hadn't already2 meet with a Weendoze frenzied accelerated fist. ;)    O >> 2 freaking days already of trying to get reflection's file transfer protocol  >> to work.  >  >What's it not doing?  > F >Because it relies on the underlying link (just as would X/Y/Zmodem orG >Kermit), there's a lot of little things that are usually not an issue, D >but become big issues when you;re trying to transfer files over the >equivalent of a serial link.  > $ >> Their support droids are useless. > H >Depends. Get the right one, and he/she is like gold. Get the wrong one,@ >and - let's see, what was the word you used? Oh yeah - SHITE!!!  C I finally got one to call me and she walked me through all sorts of D click here/double-click there/left click/right click/scroll-down to/D drill down to/ competely non-obvious and non-intuitive shite and the transfer now functions.   C NEVER I tell you, NEVER in a million years would I have had the in- C tuition -- even if I had beat myself around the head with that lead C pipe -- to click ad nauseum with the myriad variations of the theme B that she had me do.  I wish I had some way to have what she had me4 do logged so I could playback all of the insanity.     --  < http://www.ProvN.com  for the *best* OpenVMS system security=                       solutions that others only claim to be.  --  , Cyber-Terrorism (si'-ber tayr'-or-iz-em) n.:M   The release of, the sale of, or the use of any Micro$oft software product!   --  K VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 14:44:26 +0200 * From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net> Subject: Re: Installing VMS * Message-ID: <2qga9aFvoc73U2@uni-berlin.de>   Steven Schoch wrote: > Steven Schoch wrote: > G >>   When I run "UCX" it says "%DCL-W-ACTIMAGE, error activating image  D >> UCX$CFS_SHR..."  My guess is the image was not installed because I >> TCP/IP was not started when the system booted.  Could this be because  " >> I didn't enter the correct PAK? >  > 6 > Never mind.  I just found sys$manager:UCX$CONFIG.COM > E If you want to see a sample TCP/IP configuration log, have a look at   http://sture.homeip.net    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 09:58:59 +0200 - From: "Starlet731" <starlet731@attglobal.net> + Subject: KZPBA-CB on AlphaServer 1000 4/200 0 Message-ID: <s9GdnW1mIaDcLd_cRVnygA@scarlet.biz>   Hi,   L Does anyone know if the KZPBA-CB UW Differential SCSI controller works on an AlphaServer 1000 4/200?  I know it does on an AS 1000A.   Thanks.    John   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 06:49:41 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> Y Subject: RE: Status of PL/I on Itanium (Was: Re: Canada's Equitable Life begins         m 9 Message-ID: <NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECIAEHFDMAA.tom@kednos.com>    >-----Original Message----- 0 >From: David Froble [mailto:davef@tsoft-inc.com]) >Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 8:56 PM  >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComI >Subject: Re: Status of PL/I on Itanium (Was: Re: Canada's Equitable Life  >begins moving off VMS)  >  >  >John Smith wrote: >  >> Bob Ceculski wrote: >>  1 >>>"Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message 8 >>>news:<NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECICEEKDMAA.tom@kednos.com>... >>> H >>>>We are planning to start a port in Q1 2005 and expect to take 6 to 9G >>>>months to get to a field test version.  These plans could change if ; >>>>HP drops Itanium.  Bart, what is your interest in PL/I?  >>>>= >>>and what makes you think HP is going to drop itanium after : >>>commiting all their os's to it?  That would be suicide! >>>  >>   >>  I >> Not any more costly to sales than announcing the end of Alpha for some  >> half-baked Intel cpu. >>   >>   >>   > @ >And it's usually easier to do something the second time around.  @ True, but each time you do, you inevitably will lose a number of
 customers.   >  >-- 5 >David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450 5 >Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596 ? >DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com  >170 Grimplin Road >Vanderbilt, PA  15486 >    ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 00:46:35 -0500 (CDT)  From: sms@antinode.orgP Subject: Re: TSM hates my DECnet version (Was: TSM won't accept my circuit name)) Message-ID: <04091100463492@antinode.org>   ) From: Antonio Carlini <arcarlini@iee.org>   = > The NCL SHOW VERSION is always uninteresting - I believe it B > has been at T5.0.3 since slightly before forever and is unlikely > to change.  !    Ok.  I'm willing to ignore it.   A > As for your DECNET_VERSION - something looks seriously hosed to @ > say the least. I cannot find the right notebook at the moment,A > but you seem to have a version V5.6 (DECnet) or earlier system.  > > > This seems incredibly unlikely - particularly since I assume= > you've maanaged to boot your Alpha far enough to be able to  > log in and look :-).  B    I have dim recollections of DECnet upgrades associated with VMSB upgrades over time.  This system started out with the first of theC (Alpha) Hobbyist kits, and has been upgraded with each new one (and ; possibly with one or more non-Hobbyist kits along the way).   ? > Perhaps you have some old cruft lying around in SYS$SPECIFIC: @ > that gets loaded, but somehow causes no ill effects other than> > to load the appropriate system cell with this value. I don't/ > recall which DECnet execlet does this though.   H    I saw nothing in SYS$SPECIFIC, but I did do an ANAL /IMAGE on all theE NET*.EXE files I could find in SYS$SYSTEM.  Most said something like:   3       SYS$COMMON:[SYSEXE]NET$EVENT_DISPATCHER.EXE;1   (         Image Identification Information  8                 image name: "DECNET-PLUS AXP EVENT DISP"3                 image file identification: "V7.3-1" 3                 image file build identification: "" 7                 link date/time: 22-MAY-2002 23:03:05.61 /                 linker identification: "A11-50"   
 or the newer:   &       SYS$COMMON:[SYSEXE]NET$MOP.EXE;1  (         Image Identification Information  %                 image name: "NET$MOP" 9                 image file identification: "V7.3-1 ECO02" 3                 image file build identification: "" 7                 link date/time:  7-MAR-2003 18:42:55.78 /                 linker identification: "A11-50"     E    A few had some odd-ball "image file build identification" numbers, > like "X9UH-0060030000" or "X9E9-0060020000", but the stand-out suspicious one was:   &       SYS$COMMON:[SYSEXE]NETBIOS.EXE;1  (         Image Identification Information  %                 image name: "NETBIOS" 6                 image file identification: "V5.0-500E"3                 image file build identification: "" 7                 link date/time:  4-DEC-1996 19:28:57.61 /                 linker identification: "A11-14"   H Which appears to be unusually old, as well as suspiciously numbered.  OfH course, I don't know what it does (if anything).  Some Pathworks thing?  (I don't use Pathworks.)  H    Is it time for PRODUCT REMOVE (and perhaps a bit of manual DELETE, as& appropriate) and then PRODUCT INSTALL?    ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>  F > Now don't you all remember my advice on using DECnet IV?  Damn kids,= > always gotta play with fire.  Then cry when they get burnt.   B    I believe that I was whining pathetically, not crying.  While IC generally claim that "change is bad", aside from this incident (and H brief periods of bafflement and panic whenever I need to change anything; on it), I've had no real trouble with the fancy new DECnet.   H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode-org     Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 12:41:42 +0200  From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>Y Subject: Re: TSM hates my DECnet version (Was: TSM won't accept my circuit name) name)nam 2 Message-ID: <chukpc$ap2$1@news1.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>   Maybe this helps a bit ?   $ mc ncl NCL>show version   Node 0$ at 2004-09-11-10:39:51.766+00:00Iinf   Characteristics   /      Version                           = T5.0.3    NCL>show implementation    Node 0$ at 2004-09-11-10:40:07.496+00:00Iinf   Characteristics   (      Implementation                    =	         {             [!            Name = OpenVMS Alpha ,             Version = "V7.3-2  "             ] ,            [.            Name = HP DECnet-Plus for OpenVMS ,5            Version = "V7.3-2 25-OCT-2003 02:41:13.63"             ]	         }    NCL>exit- $ write sys$output f$getsyi("DECNET_VERSION")  00051000 $    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 14:22:36 +0200 * From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>& Subject: Re: VMS marketing opportunity* Message-ID: <2qg90gFvoc73U1@uni-berlin.de>   JF Mezei wrote:  > John Smith wrote:  > K >>I want to have about 40 semi's loaded with 3/4" plywood and bottled water I >>drive into FLA each week during hurricane season and park in the target L >>zones for the week leading up to landfall. Cash sales only. Load your own. >  > M > Or put other businesses out of business by selling the metal grades/louvers N > that permenantly fit over the windows or can be lowered over them (and patioR > doors) in minutes whenever a storm approaches, as they do in northern australia. > F > Of course, if residents insist in building according to their formerL > location's look/feel, then they may not wish to have such "decorations" onJ > their homes, prefering the fake wooden shutters next to the windows, andT > having to buy plywood and nail it everytime some storm is threthening their areas.   Since we are already OT...  H There's a lot to be said for observing the traditional building methods  in a given area.  I When the storms hit the UK in October 1987, I was working 200 miles from  G home. The customer suggested I went home to check for property damage,  C but my house was of traditional stone construction, roof included,  I dating back to ~1830, and in an exposed lcation at the edge of moorland.  G I was confident there would be no damage, so didn't alter my schedule,   and was not disappointed.     " And from a discussion here in 2001   http://tinyurl.com/66p5a    D "Straying even further OT, 150 years ago they knew how to reconcile % flood plains and cheap building land.   E They built the house with a suspended floor several feet above flood  ' plain level, and steps up to the doors.   C On the rare occasions it flooded, only the "basement" got wet. The  I house's owners could sit it out (owning waders would be useful!) or move  I in with friends on higher ground until the flood subsided. The house and  C its contents stayed dry. No damage, no rebuilding, no redecorating  
 needed after.   I So the problem is basically cheapskate builders saving the cost of a few  D feet height of wall and/or using construction techniques that can't > stand a bit of water sloshing around the base of the building.  D I recently saw a row of new, flooded "excutive" homes next to a 19C H house sitting pretty with its front door two feet above the flood. Sad, 	 isn't it.      Yours,    Nigel Arnot"    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 13:06:56 +0200 * From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>? Subject: Re: Well, my VAX won't make a year of uptime after all * Message-ID: <2qg4ilFurhjuU1@uni-berlin.de>   healyzh@aracnet.com wrote:$ > John Smith <a@nonymous.com> wrote: > M >>We had a VS4000/60 a long while ago acting as a dedicated db server. It was ? >>up continuously for about 3 years. It was connected to a UPS.  >  > J > It's been my experience over the last few years that having an UPS wouldO > have allowed me to keep my PWS 433au up for considerably longer than I have.  N > That is with the exception of this last year when we've had a couple of longL > power outages (and a self induced stability problem).  One of these years M > I'll break down and get an UPS or three, but at the moment, I simply don't   > have the room :^(  >   A Patches which require a reboot are the real killer for my uptime.    ------------------------------   Date: 11 Sep 2004 07:29:35 GMT+ From: "Doc." <doc.cypher@openvms-rocks.com> + Subject: Re: why mainframes are still used? 7 Message-ID: <Xns9561609D56E5Adcovmsrox@212.100.160.123>   J %NEWS-I-NEWMSG, Bruno Saverio Delbono wrote in news:8_t0d.367210$M95.50413	 @pd7tw1no    > Tom Linden wrote:   ) >> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. = >> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). C >> Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 8/19/2004  > K > I can understand this is good thing, but do you really need to advertise?   L I suspect Tom can't do much about the outgoing advert, but the incoming one  could be cut out.      Doc. --  G OpenVMS:     Eight out of ten hackers prefer *other* operating systems. G http://www.openvms-rocks.com    Deathrow Public-Access OpenVMS Cluster.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 10:56:46 +0100 < From: "Alex Daniels" <AlexNOSPAMTHANKSDaniels@themail.co.uk>+ Subject: Re: why mainframes are still used? 6 Message-ID: <4142cbc5$0$22754$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>  L "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> ; wrote in message news:chsc6f$h0i$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com...  > Alex Daniels wrote: M >> "Andrew Harrison" <andrew_remove__s._harrison@s_u_n.com> wrote in message  - >> news:chp31m$f1u$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com... C >>>The Sun E10K took the I/O crown away from IBM and it hasn't been  >>>returned. >>	 >> <SNIP>  >>  > Andrew Harrison  >>G >> Are there any Sun boxes with greater maximum I/O bandwidth than the  C >> AlphaServer GS1280 at 222 GB/s ? If so can you please provide a  
 >> reference.  >> > A > You apear to be labouring under the impression that I suggested 4 > that the E10K still holds the I/O bandwidth crown. > 
 > It doesn't.  > > > Nor was I suggesting that Sun holds the I/O bandwidth crown. > < > My point was that IBM lost the I/O throughput crown a long' > time ago and have never recovered it.  > @ > I would also be very carefull about suggesting that the GS1280B > can do 222 GB/s in I/O bandwidth as you appear to be attempting,> > that is the maximum bandwidth, measured bandwidth using realA > applications is much lower than that at 15 GB/s, lower than the   > measured bandwidth on an F25K. > 	 > regards  > Andrew Harrison   K I asked a question, as I'm looking at getting some new boxes for one of my  ? customers, I didn't mean for you to read anything else into it.   M As you mention the F25k however, I had a look at the STREAMS results for it,   compared to the GS1280  I (http://www.cs.virginia.edu/stream/top20/Bandwidth.html). The GS1280 (64  E CPUs) is 7 places above the F25k (144 CPUs, 72 Dual Processor chips).   A Is this not an accurate/representative or appropriate comparison?    Alex     ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 06:41:32 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> + Subject: RE: why mainframes are still used? 9 Message-ID: <NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECIGEHEDMAA.tom@kednos.com>    >-----Original Message----- = >From: Bruno Saverio Delbono [mailto:bruno.s.delbono@mail.ac] ) >Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 8:08 PM  >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com, >Subject: Re: why mainframes are still used? >  >  >Hi Tom, >  >Tom Linden wrote:< >> I did the first, Nigel, I didn't understand your request. > J >Certain mail etiquette would be good. Please do not top post, and do not I >quote excessively. Sorting thru your replies is by far the hardest part  H >I've found when reading your replies. Please be considerate and try to 5 >format your posts by refrain from excessive quoting.  > ) >> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. = >> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). C >> Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 8/19/2004  > J >I can understand this is good thing, but do you really need to advertise?  B I don't think I can do much about that short of shutting down AVG.   > 	 >Regards,  >  >-Bruno  >    --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 8/19/2004   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 06:46:42 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> + Subject: RE: why mainframes are still used? 9 Message-ID: <NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECIMEHEDMAA.tom@kednos.com>    >-----Original Message----- = >From: Bruno Saverio Delbono [mailto:bruno.s.delbono@mail.ac] ) >Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 8:08 PM  >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com, >Subject: Re: why mainframes are still used? >  >  >Hi Tom, >  >Tom Linden wrote:< >> I did the first, Nigel, I didn't understand your request. > J >Certain mail etiquette would be good. Please do not top post, and do not I >quote excessively. Sorting thru your replies is by far the hardest part  H >I've found when reading your replies. Please be considerate and try to 5 >format your posts by refrain from excessive quoting.  > ) >> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. = >> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). C >> Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 8/19/2004  > J >I can understand this is good thing, but do you really need to advertise?  > Let's see if that got rid of it.  BTW, I find it annoying too.   > 	 >Regards,  >  >-Bruno  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 16:24:13 +0200 * From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>+ Subject: Re: why mainframes are still used? * Message-ID: <2qgg4dFvj6evU1@uni-berlin.de>   Tom Linden wrote:  >  >>-----Original Message-----> >>From: Bruno Saverio Delbono [mailto:bruno.s.delbono@mail.ac]* >>Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 8:08 PM >>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com - >>Subject: Re: why mainframes are still used?  >> >>	 >>Hi Tom,  >> >>Tom Linden wrote:  >>< >>>I did the first, Nigel, I didn't understand your request. >>K >>Certain mail etiquette would be good. Please do not top post, and do not  J >>quote excessively. Sorting thru your replies is by far the hardest part I >>I've found when reading your replies. Please be considerate and try to  6 >>format your posts by refrain from excessive quoting. >> >>) >>>Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. = >>>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). C >>>Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 8/19/2004  >>K >>I can understand this is good thing, but do you really need to advertise?  >  > @ > Let's see if that got rid of it.  BTW, I find it annoying too. >  Yes it did.    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 16:02:43 GMT ! From: Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com> + Subject: Re: why mainframes are still used? 8 Message-ID: <bo76k0t9j6mebgg0ffrv4u573gv6gio72j@4ax.com>  H On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 16:37:21 -0700, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote:  : >I did the first, Nigel, I didn't understand your request.  N Trimming to context is another bit of good Usenet etiquette in not quoting theO whole of a posting but cutting out all but that which you are directly replying  too. Just like the above:-)   M BTW Tom I wasn't particularly getting at you as others are guilty of this. It N just renders the posting less readable. Using a proper threaded newsreader oneP can easily read the whole of the original post if necessary. If I have to scrollM down the page because acres of old postings are quoted then the temptation is  not to read to the end.   P And another thing, also not getting at you in particular Tom:-) Please don't topN post as again it renders the posting difficult to follow. I think that this isP the first time that I've ever seen you top post so I am sure it was by accident.   -- Nigel Barker Live from the sunny Cote d'Azur    ------------------------------   Date: 11 Sep 2004 16:26:42 GMT+ From: "Doc." <doc.cypher@openvms-rocks.com> + Subject: Re: why mainframes are still used? 6 Message-ID: <Xns9561BBAE79CDdcovmsrox@212.100.160.123>  % %NEWS-I-NEWMSG, Nigel Barker wrote in 0 news:bo76k0t9j6mebgg0ffrv4u573gv6gio72j@4ax.com   F > BTW Tom I wasn't particularly getting at you as others are guilty ofA > this. It just renders the posting less readable. Using a proper H > threaded newsreader one can easily read the whole of the original postF > if necessary. If I have to scroll down the page because acres of oldD > postings are quoted then the temptation is not to read to the end.  I I notice that a lot of the "culprits" for fullquoting are coming in from oF Info-VAX, not via Usenet.  In the context of receiving messages via a . mailing list, quoting more may be appropriate.  F Perhaps HP could open up a news server with just c.o.v.?  It might be L easier for people to justify a hole in the firewall to let that in if it is & provided as a service by their vendor.     Doc. -- eG OpenVMS:     Eight out of ten hackers prefer *other* operating systems.eG http://www.openvms-rocks.com    Deathrow Public-Access OpenVMS Cluster.e   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Sep 2004 10:23:15 -0700! From: tom@kednos.com (Tom Linden)n+ Subject: Re: why mainframes are still used?e= Message-ID: <ef893e89.0409110923.1a525437@posting.google.com>r  a Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com> wrote in message news:<7ep3k09qiqgod3oevem3ee6og1c0ceos4h@4ax.com>... M > On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 13:02:59 -0400, David M Smith <dsmit115@csc.com> wrote:- > R > >Tom -- if it's all the same to you, I would love for you to change your "quote"P > >character in your newsreader from < to >. It would make reading your posts so* > >much easier (for me, and maybe others). > M > I'll vote for that too. If you could trim to context too that would be even2	 > better.2   Is that better?    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 09:39:42 +0200o- From: Didier Morandi <prenom.nom@freesurf.fr>m Subject: [OT] Todayr4 Message-ID: <4142abc4$0$15567$636a15ce@news.free.fr>   Hi my buddies from America,   ( All my prayers for this sad anniversary.
 Best regards,n   D. -- n,         ~ AIR SOFT LABS ~ www.airsoftlabs.fr0     190 avenue St Exupry, 31400 Toulouse France2   Phone: +33(0)5 6120 7761  GSM: +33(0)6 7983 6418  4   Producers of CAYLUS 2004 ~ Directed by Franz Heil.4 Pictures are here: www.didiermorandi.com/caylus_2004   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.505 ************************