1 INFO-VAX	Sun, 12 Sep 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 506       Contents:% CRTL, errno and "real" OpenVMS status ) Re: CRTL, errno and "real" OpenVMS status 2 Re: I'm giving up computers if this is the future.2 Re: I'm giving up computers if this is the future.2 Re: I'm giving up computers if this is the future.2 Re: I'm giving up computers if this is the future. Re: Impersonate 	 Re: samba P Re: Status of PL/I on Itanium (Was: Re: Canada's Equitable Life begins         mP Re: Status of PL/I on Itanium (Was: Re: Canada's Equitable Life begins         m Time for reflection G Re: TSM hates my DECnet version (Was: TSM won't accept my circuit name) P Re: TSM hates my DECnet version (Was: TSM won't accept my circuit name) name)nam$ Re: VAXstation 4000-90 , SPX and KVT Re: VMS in Datmation" Re: why mainframes are still used?" Re: why mainframes are still used?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 03:46:15 GMT * From: "PAUL DEMBRY" <padepede@verizon.net>. Subject: CRTL, errno and "real" OpenVMS status( Message-ID: <bEP0d.1638$lX.859@trnddc04>  H I am getting an errno 28 (no space on device) return from execl. This isC after 48 execl's in a row. Is there a way that I can get the actual E underlying OpenVMS status so that I can figure exactly what happened? L Clearly I am running out of some resource but what? The driving program is a+ daemon that vfork/execl's server processes.  Thanks,  Paul   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Sep 2004 23:35:48 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 2 Subject: Re: CRTL, errno and "real" OpenVMS status3 Message-ID: <lqocR9hCiDg$@eisner.encompasserve.org>   U In article <bEP0d.1638$lX.859@trnddc04>, "PAUL DEMBRY" <padepede@verizon.net> writes: J > I am getting an errno 28 (no space on device) return from execl. This isE > after 48 execl's in a row. Is there a way that I can get the actual G > underlying OpenVMS status so that I can figure exactly what happened? 5 > Clearly I am running out of some resource but what?   F Have you tried setting "system service exception mode" just before the 49th call ?   E If your preference is not guessing from STARLET.REQ or looking at the H VMS source listings, you will need to look up SYS$SETSFM in the Obsolete Features manual.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 11:40:40 -0600  From: "E.S." <emu@ecubics.com>; Subject: Re: I'm giving up computers if this is the future. 5 Message-ID: <qMG0d.634$7d6.371@fe39.usenetserver.com>    VAXman- wrote: > E > NEVER I tell you, NEVER in a million years would I have had the in- E > tuition -- even if I had beat myself around the head with that lead E > pipe -- to click ad nauseum with the myriad variations of the theme D > that she had me do.  I wish I had some way to have what she had me6 > do logged so I could playback all of the insanity.     Why didn't you use kermit ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 01:16:26 +0800 , From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>; Subject: Re: I'm giving up computers if this is the future. 0 Message-ID: <878ybgafpx.fsf@k9.prep.synonet.com>  0 Mike Bartman <omni@foolie.omniphile.com> writes:  E > On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 17:05:42 GMT, VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:   E >>If PeeCee/Weendoze is the future, I am buying myself a hot dog cart  >>today!   Stolen for future .sig'ing :)   D > I'm with you...that's why I'm teaching myself Linux...and welding, > just in case!  ;-)  E Know Linux, I think :( is needed here, starting on getting my A'craft E Maint Licence. Got the Digital Avionics exam on Thurs and am not sure  if this is a good idea...   C >>How the hell can people use such shite and actually purport to be  >>productive at their jobs?   4 > The trick is to lower expectations sufficiently...  ? And the only other thing they have seen, if they have ever seen @ anything else, is DOS. How do you lower expectations then? Other3 than commiiting VMS to being `Industry Standard'...    --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 19:36:36 -0400 . From: Mike Bartman <omni@foolie.omniphile.com>; Subject: Re: I'm giving up computers if this is the future. 8 Message-ID: <cm17k0l2la5h14sjno5of2u6r198eq03m0@4ax.com>  / On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 03:28:39 -0400, Undisclosed ( <nomail@dontbeaweaselspammer.com> wrote:   >Mike Bartman wrote:  I >> There's a lot wrong with the PC (assuming you mean the IBM clones, not  >> the generic term).    >>  A >> How about that whole IRQ thing?  That bus that Apple once used  > K >I haven't had a problem with "plug and pray" since I gave up ISA and EISA.   C I have.  PCI is better, with the newer MBs, but it isn't perfect.     E The first things I listed were mostly problems with the IBM PC.  Some B of them have been improved considerably in the last 20 years, some haven't.  B >everyone uses PCI and the derivatives now. Even Apple(!) and Sun.  : That's not because it's better.  It's just more available.  H >> How about the whole "can't address a drive over xxx megabytes" thing?D >> (that we went through more than once as drives *continued* to getE >> bigger...like nobody thought that would happen after the first two H >> times and came up with a scheme that wasn't closed-ended???)  And allF >> the various ways different companies came up with to get around it? > % >is there a generic solution to this?   A Yeah, if you design things properly.  The culprit is fixed length E fields in data structures.  That may have been necessary 30 years ago D due to limited memory and CPU power, but there's not much excuse forE it today.  If you need still more speed than the CPU can manage (find D this hard to believe...), use variable length fields to describe theD drive, and self-modifying code when you mount the drives...write theE fixed length version as you need it; once you know what sizes you are B dealing with on the particular drive in question.  Don't hard codeA them into the EPROMS and standards, and then run into a wall when F drives exceed the limits set by this, and then play all sorts of games: trying to get around them...just fix the problem up front!  F >> How about that crappy Intel 80x86 architecture, that has no generalF >> purpose registers at all (there are instructions that can *only* beG >> used with one particular register, and which register that is varies G >> with the instruction in question...every register gets used this way G >> at one time or another), resulting in *lots* of instructions that do I >> nothing but shuffle data from the register it's in to the one it needs / >> to be in for the next instruction to work.    > H >AMD-64 adds a comfortable number of registers. It's not the SPARC with # >32 GP registers, but it's not bad.   D While it may be compatible with the Intel 80x86 family, it isn't theE Intel 80x86 family, so it doesn't change my complaints with the Intel 
 80x86 family.    >At least the non-real-mode F >> addressing has gotten rid of that rediculous segmented memory modelH >> and the pain and suffering it exacted...you couldn't even compare twoE >> pointers without "normalizing" them first (stuffing as much of the 2 >> address into the segment register as possible). > D >dude, segments have been dead for everything but control by the OS  >kernel itself since the 386.   B No, not really.  The 80486 and MS-DOS (and early Windows versions)D used real mode too, and had the segment problems, and I suspect thatD the current Pentium 4 still has them in there too...though I haven't> tried to program an Intel chip at that level since the PentiumD days...I let the compilers worry about it these days and don't writeC any boot code.  As I said, going virtual and using the "flat model" C eliminated them, but they are still there in the CPUs if you aren't  using that mode of operation.   G >> And the flash upgrades of motherboards that, if anything goes wrong, H >> leaves you with a dead bit of chip-jewelry?  How about a ROM with theE >> flash program in it and a reset so you can try again to load a new B >> BIOS???  That one's not IBM's fault...they didn't have a way to5 >> upgrade the BIOS without plugging in a new chip...  > E >if you are buying a server or high-end PC, you can get one with two  A >flash memories full of BIOS. One dies - you switch to the other.   D That there are options on some systems, if you spend enough on them,1 doesn't change the fact that PCs have problems...   C >> For an overgrown cash register (which is what it was...), the PC H >> wasn't bad.  As a good computer design it lacks big time.  There were@ >> better machines out at the time...they just didn't have "IBM"I >> stencilled on them.  The Victor 9000 for instance.  800x600 monochrome H >> non-glare screen with dot-addressable graphics, VT-52 escape codes inH >> the BIOS for text output with special effects, 1.2 meg variable speedE >> double sided quad-density 5.25" floppies (the IBM machine had 160K F >> single sided, single density drives), and the screen brightness andA >> contrast were controllable with software or from the keyboard. H >> Standard memory was 256K (IBM was 64K).  About the only place the IBMG >> beat it was in the expansion bus...the Victor had a connector on the C >> back that brought all the CPU lines and some MB lines out for an I >> expansion box, but no place for individual cards.  The Sage was a nice D >> machine too...ran Unix on an M68000 and came stock with an MS-DOSC >> emulator that ran as fast as an original PC ran it.  it was also / >> smaller than a PC (bit under half the size).  >  >ahh, a hardware geek. ;)   E No, I'm a programmer...but software has to run on hardware to get any E real speed out of it...and as a computer owner and user, I do tend to / pay attention to hardware and its capabilities.   ) >never heard of those machines, actually.   A You're under 30, aren't you?  You're one of those people who came F along after the Wintel boxes took over the world, so you've never seen@ the other ways it could have been if Joe Sixpack and the BOTASMs= hadn't perverted the computer revolution.  You don't know any 	 better...   F [the above is mostly a mini rant...may or may not really apply to you,% but it's true enough for too many...]   D >as for the expansion bus... ISA is one of the major reasons the PC  >florished.   E That it had an expansion bus, yes, I agree.  That it had such a sucky D one is another issue.  IBM tried to fix it with the Microchannel busC in the PS-2, but the world was already too far down the rackety ISA @ track to switch by that point.  Too bad they didn't think thingsD through better before they foisted the PC on the world in a mad rush= of indifference to the whole concept of personal computers...   8 >Sage sounds quite a bit like the original Sun machines.  ' Somewhat.  Was out about the same time.   J >I agree with your general points that the PC, when it started out, was a  >wretched architecture.  > 3 >but it's had 20 years to rub away the sharp edges.   D Some.  It has improved, but some of the rough edges are still there,? they are just covered up a bit here and there.  They still show F through though.  Things like where you can install NT on a disk for itF to boot properly (first 2 gigs only I believe...due to a limitation inB the BIOS design I hear), the whole drive letter scheme that limitsB total drive count (you can get around it sort of with RAID), etc..  
 -- Mike B.  
 -- Mike B.  
 '04 FLSTCI  @ ----------------------------------------------------------------=   To reply via e-mail, remove the 'foolie.' from the address. %   I'm getting sick of all the SPAM... @ ----------------------------------------------------------------   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 21:58:51 -0700  From: Z <z@no.spam> ; Subject: Re: I'm giving up computers if this is the future. 0 Message-ID: <10k7ls11brglv07@corp.supernews.com>   Mike Bartman wrote: H >>>How about the whole "can't address a drive over xxx megabytes" thing?D >>>(that we went through more than once as drives *continued* to getE >>>bigger...like nobody thought that would happen after the first two H >>>times and came up with a scheme that wasn't closed-ended???)  And allF >>>the various ways different companies came up with to get around it? >>& >>is there a generic solution to this? >  > C > Yeah, if you design things properly.  The culprit is fixed length G > fields in data structures.  That may have been necessary 30 years ago F > due to limited memory and CPU power, but there's not much excuse forG > it today.  If you need still more speed than the CPU can manage (find F > this hard to believe...), use variable length fields to describe theF > drive, and self-modifying code when you mount the drives...write theG > fixed length version as you need it; once you know what sizes you are D > dealing with on the particular drive in question.  Don't hard codeC > them into the EPROMS and standards, and then run into a wall when H > drives exceed the limits set by this, and then play all sorts of games< > trying to get around them...just fix the problem up front!  F Didn't VAXstations suffer this same problem? I seem to remember a 2GB G or 1GB disk size limit when I rebuilt a 3100 (?) from spare parts last   year.    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Sep 2004 20:02:12 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)  Subject: Re: Impersonate3 Message-ID: <brgQQ0g3mF$3@eisner.encompasserve.org>   b In article <yLs0d.24224$Of3.1627@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>, "The KGB" <kgb@tampabay.rr.com> writes:K > Looking in the UAF at SYSTEM rights and stuff I see that 'impersonate' is M > listed.  I  find very little information on it.  Can someone please clue me   @ You can defend against it by demanding that VMS Development make privilege names more clear.   @ Others have done that in the past, and the response was that the? VMS Developers renamed the old DETACH privilege to IMPERSONATE. B It did not gain any capabilities in the renaming, but it certainly made things more clear.   L > in on it's use? As in how it is used and more importantly how can a SYSMANH > defend against it assuming it's to impersonate a user!  VMS Ver 7.2.1.  A IMPERSONATE (nee DETACH) is no different from any other privilege  in this regard.   F The technique is to avoid granting any privileges outside the category  Normal except to users who both:  < 	1. Need the privilege for their job (think of alternatives) 	2. Are honest: 	3. Are technically competent in the use of the privilege*  E For those users who need privilege (the system managers come to mind) C the only approach is to use extensive auditing of what they do, and B that includes video surveillance.  Speak to your physical securityG department.  And if you don't have physical security, you have nothing.   A * For a fee I would be happy to administer a test on number 3 for ,   those who think they deserve privilege :-)   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Sep 2004 13:28:52 -0700 From: abord@chek.com (Ashot) Subject: Re: samba= Message-ID: <60cc41fe.0409111228.69cc9836@posting.google.com>   > > %TCPIP-E-CONFIGERROR, error processing configuration request > ) > -SYSTEM-F-BADPARAM, bad parameter value   ? It's hard to know exact cause as the log output you gave is too D scarce. I had similar error, when by mistake running @INSTALL from aF user-account, while it should be ran from SYSTEM, at least the one youC specified as SAMBA_ROOT. The INSTALL script sets up SMBD service in ; TCPIP configuration, so it could be loaded automatically on A TCPIP$STARTUP, to to that the script sets the username to run the = service from. So if this is the case you should see if you do  $ TCPIP SH SERV SMBD/FULL @ and it doesn't show you something like this (not the user_name): ------
 Service: SMBD -                            State:     Enabled ? Port:              139     Protocol:  TCP,UDP         Address:   0.0.0.0 D Inactivity:          0     User_name: SYSTEM          Process:  SMBDC Limit:             100     Active:      0             Peak:       1   . File:         SAMBA_ROOT:[BIN]SMBD_STARTUP.COM Flags:        Listen -------   = In this scenario, I'd remove the installed directory, then do 4 $ TCPIP SET CONF ENABLE NOSERV SMBD (same with SWAT), and re-run @INSTALL but from SYSTEM account.   hope it helps.   AB   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 16:28:08 -0400 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> Y Subject: Re: Status of PL/I on Itanium (Was: Re: Canada's Equitable Life begins         m , Message-ID: <GoSdnYoO8P5Ewt7cRVn-hg@igs.net>   Tom Linden wrote:  >> -----Original Message----- 2 >> From: David Froble [mailto:davef@tsoft-inc.com]+ >> Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 8:56 PM  >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComF >> Subject: Re: Status of PL/I on Itanium (Was: Re: Canada's Equitable >> Life begins moving off VMS) >> >> >> John Smith wrote: >> >>> Bob Ceculski wrote:  >>> 3 >>>> "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message : >>>> news:<NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECICEEKDMAA.tom@kednos.com>... >>>>E >>>>> We are planning to start a port in Q1 2005 and expect to take 6 D >>>>> to 9 months to get to a field test version.  These plans couldG >>>>> change if HP drops Itanium.  Bart, what is your interest in PL/I?  >>>>> ? >>>> and what makes you think HP is going to drop itanium after < >>>> commiting all their os's to it?  That would be suicide! >>>> >>>  >>> E >>> Not any more costly to sales than announcing the end of Alpha for  >>> some half-baked Intel cpu. >>>  >>>  >>>  >>B >> And it's usually easier to do something the second time around. > B > True, but each time you do, you inevitably will lose a number of > customers.    C The only kind of customers HP seems to want are those that purchase H printers, digital cameras, tv's, and digital rectal thermometers (comingH soon....ooops...that was under NDA... damn..) because those are the only products HP advertises.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 01:35:43 +0800 , From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>Y Subject: Re: Status of PL/I on Itanium (Was: Re: Canada's Equitable Life begins         m 0 Message-ID: <874qm4aets.fsf@k9.prep.synonet.com>  B "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> writes:   > Bob Ceculski wrote:  >>  g >> "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message news:<NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECICEEKDMAA.tom@kednos.com>... I >> > We are planning to start a port in Q1 2005 and expect to take 6 to 9 H >> > months to get to a field test version.  These plans could change if< >> > HP drops Itanium.  Bart, what is your interest in PL/I?   = >> and what makes you think HP is going to drop itanium after : >> commiting all their os's to it?  That would be suicide!   > ...and your point is ...?   @ He just forgot to mention that for this month only, you get free& double extra ink with every suicide...   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Sep 2004 14:25:50 -07001 From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski)  Subject: Time for reflection= Message-ID: <857e9e41.0409111325.6e5e51c9@posting.google.com>    Dear Newsgroup,   F Today is 9/11 and on 9/11/01 I was with many of you at DECUS/EncompassD in Anaheim.  They say you always remember where you were and who youA were with when a world changing event happens.  We were fortunate E enough to be together mostly just to cry, all of us to ask why and no  one wanting to belive it.   C Here in the HP ZKO building we have a quote from Martin Luther King + which happens to be my favorite which says.   C "The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of F comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy"  ! Thank you for being there for me.    Sue    ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 23:49:26 -0500 (CDT)  From: sms@antinode.orgP Subject: Re: TSM hates my DECnet version (Was: TSM won't accept my circuit name)) Message-ID: <04091123492574@antinode.org>   ) From: Antonio Carlini <arcarlini@iee.org>   	 > > [...] * > >       SYS$COMMON:[SYSEXE]NETBIOS.EXE;1 > @ > This is not part of DECnet-Plus - it probably is Pathworks, as > you suspect. [...]  D    Yup.  I crippled it with no effect.  No idea how it got there, so I'll probably toss it.  ? > I did find my notebook today and 00050500 is DECnet/OSI V5.8.  > That is approximately 1994.   H    Thanks for looking.  Further investigation here suggests that there'sE a more modern way to get this version.  After a PRODUCT REMOVE (which B also takes out the ECO) and a PRODUCT INSTALL for DECNET_OSI on myB (still secondary) PWS 500a[u], and a reboot, I got an improvement:  & ALP2 $ wso f$getsyi( "decnet_version") 00050E04  F    Then, installing the ECO (and rebooting) was enough to replace that3 realistic result with the ancient-looking 00050500.   >    Thus, I suspect that there's something odious in DEC AXPVMSE DNVOSIECO02 V7.3-1.  (Can't tell if it's odious2 or odious5, though.)   C    For what it's worth, those early console messages agree with the  f$getsyi() results:       Pre-ECO: ? %DECnet-I-LOADED, network base image loaded, version = 05.0E.04      Post-ECO: ? %DECnet-I-LOADED, network base image loaded, version = 05.05.00   D    Perhaps this is someone's way of telling me never to trust an ECO, whose README lacks an "Installation Rating".  A    I'd be interested to hear what's happened to anyone else who's ; installed this ECO.  (Or am I the only one foolish enough?)   H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode-org     Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 21:36:08 GMT ) From: Antonio Carlini <arcarlini@iee.org> Y Subject: Re: TSM hates my DECnet version (Was: TSM won't accept my circuit name) name)nam & Message-ID: <41436FD4.8010202@iee.org>   sms@antinode.org wrote: G >    A few had some odd-ball "image file build identification" numbers, @ > like "X9UH-0060030000" or "X9E9-0060020000", but the stand-out > suspicious one was:  > ( >       SYS$COMMON:[SYSEXE]NETBIOS.EXE;1  > This is not part of DECnet-Plus - it probably is Pathworks, as= you suspect. Unless it goes and fiddles with a system cell it : has no business fiddling with, then it is not the problem.8 You could rename it to .FOO and reboot (assuming this is5 not a production system). You should also temporarily 8 disable any site-specific startup files and also disable7 the startup of decnet (by setting the logical). Bits of ; DECnet are loaded during boot anyway, so the DECNET_VERSION   system cell should still be set.  = I did find my notebook today and 00050500 is DECnet/OSI V5.8.  That is approximately 1994.    Antonio    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 03:24:59 GMT 1 From: Vance Haemmerle <vance@toyvax.Tucson.AZ.US> - Subject: Re: VAXstation 4000-90 , SPX and KVT = Message-ID: <fkP0d.14473$QJ3.6409@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>    JF Mezei wrote:  > Fabio Cardoso wrote: > C >>I found some pics including a DEC cable. This connectors name is  >>called 3W3 ... >>5 >>http://www.schrotthal.de/dec/misc/dec_3w3_cable.jpg  >  >  > L > Ouch. Talk about proprietary stuff. At least on my Vaxstation 3100-30, theM > video port is a formerly standard 15 pin plug. But that 3W3 connector seems  > quite bizarre. > X > Looks like 3 conductors inside the plug (R G and B, and a shared neutral (the casing). > P > If you get that cable, you can then take the other end which will give you RGBH > + and - for each colour, and go from then to make your VGA connector. 1 > Remember that your monitor needs SYNC ON GREEN.   E The cable you want is BN36-1F.  It's got a male 3W3 connector on one  H side and a female DB15 connector on the other and is a one meter cable. F   You can then connect a regular DB15 VGA cable from that end to your < monitor.  Like JF says, your monitor still needs to support I Sync-on-Green.  I bought this cable from Great Lakes Computer and use it  , to connect a DEC 3000/900 to an LCD monitor.   Vance Haemmerle    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 18:07:29 GMT , From: "Dave Gudewicz" <k9jdk@NOSPAMarrl.net> Subject: Re: VMS in Datmation - Message-ID: <B9H0d.156238$9d6.7850@attbi_s54>   " Nice article.  Thanks for the url.   Dave...   / "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message  & news:IrCdnQUexLmJk9_cRVn-tA@igs.net... > Remaining Vehemently OpenVMS > E > Tossing aside thoughts of the latest operating systems, the Albert  
 > EinsteinJ > Healthcare Network in Philadelphia just bought a new OpenVMS system. ForA > them, it's definitely not out with the old and in with the new.  > : > http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/erp/article.php/3406641 >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 16:28:55 -0400 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> + Subject: Re: why mainframes are still used? , Message-ID: <VrWdnfKzy7qV_d7cRVn-tg@igs.net>   Tom Linden wrote: . > Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com> wrote in message6 > news:<7ep3k09qiqgod3oevem3ee6og1c0ceos4h@4ax.com>...G >> On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 13:02:59 -0400, David M Smith <dsmit115@csc.com> 	 >> wrote:  >>F >>> Tom -- if it's all the same to you, I would love for you to changeC >>> your "quote" character in your newsreader from < to >. It would F >>> make reading your posts so much easier (for me, and maybe others). >>F >> I'll vote for that too. If you could trim to context too that would >> be even better. >  > Is that better?      Much better    ------------------------------    Date: 12 Sep 2004 01:21:21 -04003 From: Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> + Subject: Re: why mainframes are still used? . Message-ID: <mddvfekukoe.fsf@panix5.panix.com>  0 Mike Bartman <omni@foolie.omniphile.com> writes:  . > On 10 Sep 2004 13:34:45 -0400, Rich Alderson( > <news@alderson.users.panix.com> wrote:  3 >> Mike Bartman <omni@foolie.omniphile.com> writes:   F >>> In the last few years at a show I've seen a company selling PDP-10G >>> clones that use modern technology (the whole TOPS-10 running system I >>> could fit under a large desk) so that folks with legacy apps can keep F >>> running them without spending so much on maintenance and power andI >>> space.  Don't remember the name of the company though...it wasn't one  >>> of the majors.  J >> That would have been XKL.  The Toad-1 was the size of a two-drawer file >> cabinet.   9 >> I'm the one who ran the show booth you'd have visited.   A > Hello again then!  Thanks for the info.  I think the show was a 5 > Fed-Expo in D.C., probably sometime in the mid-90s.   @ The DECUS trade show.  Spring Symposia, May 1995, Washington DC.  A > Are Toad-1 machines still being sold?  If so, how much?  DEC-10 B > assembler was actually kind of fun, and I think I've still got aH > Simila-10 release tape around here somewhere...though it's unlikely to. > still be readable after 24 years in a box...  N The Toad-1 was discontinued as a product by XKL a few years ago, although theyM are still in use in-house.  XKL and I parted ways about 18 months ago, so I'm N no longer privy to any plans for future products that might involve the PDP-10
 architecture.    --  L Rich Alderson                                       | /"\ ASCII ribbon     |L news@alderson.users.panix.com                       | \ / campaign against |L "You get what anybody gets. You get a lifetime."    |  x  HTML mail and    |L                          --Death, of the Endless    | / \ postings         |   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.506 ************************