1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 28 Sep 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 539       Contents:# Re: "Oracle RDB" licensing question # Re: "Oracle RDB" licensing question # Re: "Oracle RDB" licensing question  Re: *.CDD file for CONNX Re: *.CDD file for CONNX3 BACKUP/INCREMENTAL not deleting old files properly?  Best offer? VAX 4000-500A C Re: Certs last 2 years - VMS "4", slowaris "65" and still counting! C Re: Certs last 2 years - VMS "4", slowaris "65" and still counting!  CSWS_PHP & Squirrel Webmail!$ For Sale:  2 x VAX 7660 + 1 VAX 6610 Re: Future of Decnet9 Re: Get a grip! Itanium rx1600 servers selling for $1499! 9 Re: Get a grip! Itanium rx1600 servers selling for $1499! 9 Re: Get a grip! Itanium rx1600 servers selling for $1499! 9 Re: Get a grip! Itanium rx1600 servers selling for $1499! 9 Re: Get a grip! Itanium rx1600 servers selling for $1499!  Good new bad news % Re: Hobbyist site licenses DOWN AGAIN % Re: Hobbyist site licenses DOWN AGAIN , Re: HP admits discontinued IA64 workstations, Re: HP admits discontinued IA64 workstations, Re: HP admits discontinued IA64 workstations, Re: HP admits discontinued IA64 workstations, Re: HP admits discontinued IA64 workstations, Re: HP admits discontinued IA64 workstations, Re: HP admits discontinued IA64 workstations: Interbase on VMS (was Re: "Oracle RDB" licensing question)D Re: Must read on past failures needing correction for VMS to survive Re: OT: Sun's fighting chance = Re: Slashdot is reporting HP is dropping Itanium workstations = Re: Slashdot is reporting HP is dropping Itanium workstations  Tiny pickings for Itanium OEM's # Re: Tiny pickings for Itanium OEM's # Re: Tiny pickings for Itanium OEM's # Re: Tiny pickings for Itanium OEM's # Re: Tiny pickings for Itanium OEM's # RE: Tiny pickings for Itanium OEM's # Re: Tiny pickings for Itanium OEM's # weirdness with decnet known objects < Re: [DCL REQUEST] New ignore keyword for DIFFERENCES command  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 05:31:18 -0400 ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> , Subject: Re: "Oracle RDB" licensing question9 Message-ID: <Kba6d.5425$tT2.642493@news20.bellglobal.com>   . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message& news:gKudnckJ1OqpsMXcRVn-tQ@igs.net... >  [snip] > J > Interbase, which I happen to think was a pretty good DBMS on VMS, is nowH > open source though there has been no official VMS support for it for a > longL > time. But at $80k for 2-cpu RDB license maybe somebody could make a living< > selling 20 support contracts annually of Interbase on VMS. > J Visiting www.interbase.com takes you to www.Borland.com where I didn't seeG any Open Source info. Is Borland talking about putting it  into an Open 
 Source model?   
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.8 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 08:46:29 -0400 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> , Subject: Re: "Oracle RDB" licensing question, Message-ID: <h6adnXsNd4C2wMTcRVn-jA@igs.net>   Neil Rieck wrote: 0 > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message( > news:gKudnckJ1OqpsMXcRVn-tQ@igs.net... >> > [snip] >>G >> Interbase, which I happen to think was a pretty good DBMS on VMS, is G >> now open source though there has been no official VMS support for it 
 >> for a long F >> time. But at $80k for 2-cpu RDB license maybe somebody could make aD >> living selling 20 support contracts annually of Interbase on VMS. >>A > Visiting www.interbase.com takes you to www.Borland.com where I F > didn't see any Open Source info. Is Borland talking about putting it > into an Open Source model?     See L http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&newwindow=1&safe=off&q=in  terbase&meta=group%3Dcomp.os.vms   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 09:02:59 -0400 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> , Subject: Re: "Oracle RDB" licensing question, Message-ID: <k_ydnaUWN-WV_MTcRVn-jQ@igs.net>   Neil Rieck wrote: 0 > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message( > news:gKudnckJ1OqpsMXcRVn-tQ@igs.net... >> > [snip] >>G >> Interbase, which I happen to think was a pretty good DBMS on VMS, is G >> now open source though there has been no official VMS support for it 
 >> for a long F >> time. But at $80k for 2-cpu RDB license maybe somebody could make aD >> living selling 20 support contracts annually of Interbase on VMS. >>A > Visiting www.interbase.com takes you to www.Borland.com where I F > didn't see any Open Source info. Is Borland talking about putting it > into an Open Source model?    ( www.sourceforge.net/search   "interbase"   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Sep 2004 02:40:04 -0700 From: cljlk@hotmail.com (cljlk) ! Subject: Re: *.CDD file for CONNX < Message-ID: <de74637.0409280140.5075dcf1@posting.google.com>  h dooleys@snowy.net.au (dooley) wrote in message news:<1ca82fc6.0409271642.1e3094af@posting.google.com>...e > nojunk <nojunk@nojunk.hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<4157e50b$0$4033$61fed72c@news.rcn.com>... J > > I have installed CONNX8.X which is a middle between VMX and WindowsXP.H > > Would anyone please tell me how to generat configuration file *.CDD?
 > > Thans.= > cdd files are not really config files but database metadata . > You need to install the connx admin software% > and use the data dictionary manager @ > you can import cdd definitions from varions sources .cdd .pdl  > Phil  E I have installed CONNX8.x client and admin software. I do not see any C application that I can generate data dictionary file (*.CDD). Would 
 you please- point it out. I am new in this filed. Thanks.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 10:57:18 GMT # From: "Phil" <dooleys@snowy.net.au> ! Subject: Re: *.CDD file for CONNX < Message-ID: <isb6d.7123$5O5.3047@news-server.bigpond.net.au>  , "cljlk" <cljlk@hotmail.com> wrote in message6 news:de74637.0409280140.5075dcf1@posting.google.com...0 > dooleys@snowy.net.au (dooley) wrote in message9 news:<1ca82fc6.0409271642.1e3094af@posting.google.com>... 7 > > nojunk <nojunk@nojunk.hotmail.com> wrote in message / news:<4157e50b$0$4033$61fed72c@news.rcn.com>... L > > > I have installed CONNX8.X which is a middle between VMX and WindowsXP.J > > > Would anyone please tell me how to generat configuration file *.CDD? > > > Thans.? > > cdd files are not really config files but database metadata 0 > > You need to install the connx admin software' > > and use the data dictionary manager A > > you can import cdd definitions from varions sources .cdd .pdl  > > Phil > G > I have installed CONNX8.x client and admin software. I do not see any E > application that I can generate data dictionary file (*.CDD). Would  > you please/ > point it out. I am new in this filed. Thanks. 9 I am running a much older version, but the help file says J http://www.connx.com/products/connx/Connx%208.9%20UserGuide/connxcdd32.htm To create a CDD 3 Click the Start button, and then point to Programs. 7 Point to CONNX 8, and then click CONNX Data Dictionary. 5 The Open dialog box appears. Click the Cancel button. 1 The CONNX Data Dictionary Manager window appears. 5 You can add or import CDD objects (databases, tables, 5 fields, views, and stored procedures) by clicking the 2 Add or Import buttons in the CONNX Data Dictionary5 Manager window and then choosing an available object.  Phil   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Sep 2004 09:25:22 -07001 From: nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett) < Subject: BACKUP/INCREMENTAL not deleting old files properly?- Message-ID: <YQZHM0OwGdBW@malvm7.mala.bc.ca.>   I  I'm having a problem with restoring an incremental backup. Either BACKUP # is broken or I'm missing something.     I have two savesets:   J   an image backup (BACKUP/IMAGE/RECORD/NOALIAS disk: saveset1 ) of a disk   K   and a differential backup (BACKUP/SINC=BACKUP disk:[*...]*.*;* saveset2 )   *  I restore the image backup to a new disk:  &    BACKUP/IMAGE/NOALIAS saveset1 disk:  *  and then restore the differential backup:  5    BACKUP/INCREMENTAL/OVERLAY/TRUNCATE saveset2 disk:      6  The problem I'm seeing is in the following situation:  I   Given a file ( x.dat;10 ) exists on the volume when the image backup is J created but has been deleted before the latest differential backup is run.F Given also that a new file of the same name but a lower version numberI (x.dat;1) has been created by the time of the differential backup. When I G restore the image backup I get the x.dat;10 file restored ( as would be H expected ). When I restore the incremental backup I get the x.dat;1 fileH restored ( again, as would be expected ), BUT THE X.DAT;10 FILE DOES NOTH GET DELETED. This leads to an older version of the file remaining in theJ directory with a higher version number, which is not a pleasant situation.  5   An I doing something wrong or is this a BACKUP bug.   L   The system is running OpenVMS 7.3-1. The VMS731_BACKUP V1.0 patch has been applied.   ------------------------------   Date: 28 Sep 04 07:26:16 PST From: mckinneyj@cpva.saic.com " Subject: Best offer? VAX 4000-500A( Message-ID: <MziXIwXcFBHf@cpva.saic.com>  B The following is available for the best offer to a hobbyist who isC willing to pick it up in Dedham, MA, USA. If the best offer is just A to haul it away that's acceptible - but I do hope to recover some A of what it cost me to have it shipped here a few years ago. It is A currently configured with VMS 7.3 on a handful of RFxx drives and ? being used as a hobbyist system. For those unfamiliar with this @ model it's enclosed in a cabinet that is roughly 20 inches wide,B 12 inches deep,  27 inches tall, and probably weighs 120 lbs. It's> TOY clock battery has recently died necessitating the entry ofC the date and time upon each boot until it's replaced. There is also < a TF85 drive of questionable merit and numerous option cards
 installed.  B Direct offers/queries to mckinneyj AT saic dot com. As noted above@ this is for pickup only - because of the size I'm not interested> in shipping. Now here's what the serial console says about the hardware...   
 VAX 4000-500A    ...console output...   KA681-A V2.3, VMB 2.14 Performing normal system tests. @ 70..69..68..67..66..65..64..63..62..61..60..59..58..57..56..55..@ 54..53..52..51..50..49..48..47..46..45..44..43..42..41..40..39..@ 38..37..36..35..34..33..32..31..30..29..28..27..26..25..24..23..@ 22..21..20..19..18..17..16..15..14..13..12..11..10..09..08..07.. 06..05..04..03.. Tests completed. >>>show config KA681-A V2.3, VMB 2.14   Scan of main memory J Memory board 0: 00000000 to 03FFFFFF, 64MB, 131072 good pages, 0 bad pagesJ Memory board 1: 04000000 to 07FFFFFF, 64MB, 131072 good pages, 0 bad pages  B Total of 128MB, 262144 good pages, 0 bad pages, 160 reserved pages  " SCSI Adapter 0 (761300), SCSI ID 7    UQSSP Tape Controller 0 (774500)   Ethernet Adapter -EZA0 (08-00-2B-3B-1D-B2)  Scan of Qbus I/O Space7 -20000120 (760440) = 0080 DHQ11/DHV11/CXA16/CXB16/CXY08  [...]  -200002C0 (761300) = 0000 KZQSA  [...]  -20000804 (764004) = 8001 LPV11  [...]  -20001550 (772520) = 0000 TSV05  [...] ; -20001940 (774500) = 0000 TQK50/TQK70/TU81E/RV20/KFQSA-TAPE  [...]  -20001F40 (777500) = 0020 IPCR -20001F4C (777514) = 8001 LPV11    Scan of Qbus Memory Space , -30040000 to 3005FFFF (01000000 to 01377777) >>>show dev  DSSI Bus 0 Node 0 (R7Y0ZA) -DIA0 (RF36)   DSSI Bus 0 Node 1 (NORTH)  -DIA1 (RF36)   DSSI Bus 0 Node 2 (R5IMFG) -DIA2 (RF35)   DSSI Bus 0 Node 3 (R5QLSA) -DIA3 (RF35)   DSSI Bus 0 Node 4 (DOPEY)  -DIA4 (RF36)   DSSI Bus 0 Node 5 (T8NX2R) -MIA5 (TF85)   DSSI Bus 0 Node 6 (*)    DSSI Bus 0 Node 7 (SLEEPY) -DIA7 (RF36)   DSSI Bus 1 Node 7 (*)     " SCSI Adapter 0 (761300), SCSI ID 7    UQSSP Tape Controller 0 (774500)   Ethernet Adapter -EZA0 (08-00-2B-3B-1D-B2)  >>>show dssi_id 0 DSSI_ID Bus 0/A = 6  determined by Bus 0 ID Plug0 DSSI_ID Bus 1/B = 7  determined by Bus 1 ID Plug >>>show version  KA681-A V2.3, VMB 2.14   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 08:36:50 +0200 ( From: "Rudolf Wingert" <win@fom.fgan.de>L Subject: Re: Certs last 2 years - VMS "4", slowaris "65" and still counting!3 Message-ID: <001201c4a525$891c6910$994614ac@wat153>    Hello,  ; Sorry Bob, you did not understand my joke: Andrew think....    Best regards R. Wingert    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 14:31:52 +0100 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> L Subject: Re: Certs last 2 years - VMS "4", slowaris "65" and still counting!/ Message-ID: <cjbp49$u5$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>    Bob Ceculski wrote: - > the results speak for themselves Andrew ...  >  >   > http://secunia.com/product/95/ > ! > http://secunia.com/product/344/     B All this proves is that there are lies, damn lies and OpenVMS CERT statistics.   " But then you knew that didn't you.   Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 14:11:13 +0100 & From: "Andoni" <andonilist@eurokom.ie>% Subject: CSWS_PHP & Squirrel Webmail! 2 Message-ID: <mqd6d.32312$Z14.11037@news.indigo.ie>   Hello,  E I would like to know if anyone has come across a problem when getting  programs to work on CSWS_PHP.   I I am running a free webmail client called Squirrel that I downloaded from 8 the web and which works on Windows without any problems.  I As soon as I log in to the application and it tries to create a session I   get an error message which says:  L <b>Warning</b>:  session_start(): read returned less bytes than requested inE <b>/apache$root/php/scripts/squirrel/functions/global.php</b> on line  <b>295</b><br />  G This line of global .php only has the session_start() function call and 
 nothing else.   
 I am running: 
 OpenVMS 7.3-1 
 Apache 1.3.26 	 PHP 4.3.2   7 Thanks in advance for any help you may be able to give.   
 Kind regards,  Andoni OConchubhair.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 13:12:06 +0100 - From: Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com> - Subject: For Sale:  2 x VAX 7660 + 1 VAX 6610 + Message-ID: <2rt2tsF1e5cdhU1@uni-berlin.de>   2 Again, this stuff would only be of interest to the0 *very* *serious* hobbyist (of which there appear0 to be quite a few in this country (UK) alone :-)    3 o VAX 7660 (6 processors), 1 Gbyte memory, dual CI, "    3 x 10 Mbit Ethernet, CI cables  3 o VAX 7660 (6 processors), 1 Gbyte memory, dual CI, &    3 (?) x 10 Mbit Ethernet, CI cables  5 o VAX 6610 (1 processor), 256 Mbytes memory, dual CI, &    2 (?) x 10 Mbit Ethernet, CI cables      7 Location is London (UK), 10 minutes walk from Liverpool 9 Street station.  Buyer collects (you'd need a small van).  3-phase power required.   < Any interest / reasonable offers ?  I'm not asking the earth
 for these ...   	 Roy Omond  Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Sep 2004 03:58:38 -0700( From: greigaln@netscape.net (Alan Greig) Subject: Re: Future of Decnet = Message-ID: <d391276d.0409280258.3bc9600b@posting.google.com>   _ Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com> wrote in message news:<2q2n3hFq0mskU1@uni-berlin.de>...  > Alan Greig wrote:  >  > >> [... snip ...]  > >  > > But first there was ANF-10 > $ > Now there's a blast-from-the-past. >  > What are you up to Alan ?    Nothing really...    ------------------------------    Date: 27 Sep 2004 23:01:48 -0700' From: icerq4a@spray.se (David Svensson) B Subject: Re: Get a grip! Itanium rx1600 servers selling for $1499!= Message-ID: <734da31c.0409272201.2e82fa74@posting.google.com>   Z "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> wrote in message news:<41582D49.4050901@MMaz.com>... > Bob Ceculski wrote:  > ; > >I just emailed Mark Gorham, and the current small box to : > >be supported by vms is the 1600 server model ... and he8 > >said right now, they are $1499, normally $2999 ... so > >get a grip! > >    > > I > Wait a little longer and HP might be giving them away just to get rind   > of them...  J As usual, there are those kind of people who want to kill joy. Sad to see.   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Sep 2004 10:53:27 +0200C From: vaxinf@chclu.chemie.uni-konstanz.de (Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann) B Subject: Re: Get a grip! Itanium rx1600 servers selling for $1499!- Message-ID: <41592687$1@news.uni-konstanz.de>   = In article <d7791aa1.0409270653.4724dd14@posting.google.com>, * bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:9 >I just emailed Mark Gorham, and the current small box to 8 >be supported by vms is the 1600 server model ... and he6 >said right now, they are $1499, normally $2999 ... so >get a grip! >   > "Existing HP OpenVMS Alpha customers in the US and Canada ..."  I My comment: noone else in world seems to use OpenVMS. Rename it to USVMS.    Sorry for my sarcasm.    eberhard   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Sep 2004 07:00:35 -0700/ From: johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com (John Reinhardt) B Subject: Re: Get a grip! Itanium rx1600 servers selling for $1499!= Message-ID: <5d708ac7.0409280600.28d3e120@posting.google.com>   m bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote in message news:<d7791aa1.0409271509.6e91d892@posting.google.com>... o > bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote in message news:<d7791aa1.0409270653.4724dd14@posting.google.com>... < > > I just emailed Mark Gorham, and the current small box to; > > be supported by vms is the 1600 server model ... and he 9 > > said right now, they are $1499, normally $2999 ... so  > > get a grip!  > ' > and Mark was right ... here they are!  > ; > http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=04/09/26/6244384   > "Exisiting HP OpenVMS Alpha customers in the US and Canada whoE purchased their systems either directly from HP or from an authorized E HP reseller may be eligible to purchase a specially configured system  from HP"  C I'm guessing this excludes us who have the Hobbyist License for VMS ? and who have purchased their systems used off of E-bay.  *sigh*    ------------------------------    Date: 28 Sep 2004 09:35:13 -0700. From: fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso)B Subject: Re: Get a grip! Itanium rx1600 servers selling for $1499!= Message-ID: <f30679fb.0409280835.6168a79d@posting.google.com>   x vaxinf@chclu.chemie.uni-konstanz.de (Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann) wrote in message news:<41592687$1@news.uni-konstanz.de>...? > In article <d7791aa1.0409270653.4724dd14@posting.google.com>, , > bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:; > >I just emailed Mark Gorham, and the current small box to : > >be supported by vms is the 1600 server model ... and he8 > >said right now, they are $1499, normally $2999 ... so > >get a grip! > >  > @ > "Existing HP OpenVMS Alpha customers in the US and Canada ..." > K > My comment: noone else in world seems to use OpenVMS. Rename it to USVMS.  >  > Sorry for my sarcasm.  > 
 > eberhard  D Same opinion here ! And for us South Americans is worse because someA systems like this cant be financed...  we must pay in cash ! :-(    []s   Fabio    ------------------------------    Date: 28 Sep 2004 12:07:58 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) B Subject: Re: Get a grip! Itanium rx1600 servers selling for $1499!3 Message-ID: <9MM3KkOq9EN6@eisner.encompasserve.org>   o In article <5d708ac7.0409280600.28d3e120@posting.google.com>, johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com (John Reinhardt) writes:  > @ > "Exisiting HP OpenVMS Alpha customers in the US and Canada whoG > purchased their systems either directly from HP or from an authorized G > HP reseller may be eligible to purchase a specially configured system 
 > from HP" > E > I'm guessing this excludes us who have the Hobbyist License for VMS A > and who have purchased their systems used off of E-bay.  *sigh*   G   I wonder if it excludes those of us who bought thier VMS systems from    DEC?   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 13:02:38 +0100 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>  Subject: Good new bad news0 Message-ID: <cjbjt0$si4$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   First the bad news.   C UDC the technology foundation of HP's Adaptive Enterprise Marketing < program is now under threat as HP cuts back R&D expenditure.    . http://uk.news.yahoo.com/040928/152/f3gmi.html  > Now the good news, UDC never supported OpenVMS so people using% it will be unaffected by any changes.    Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 07:53:46 -0500 . From: Alphaman <alphaman-nix-spam@alphant.com>. Subject: Re: Hobbyist site licenses DOWN AGAIN8 Message-ID: <u9d6d.33105$vl.25129@fe40.usenetserver.com>   Michael Moroney wrote:( > "operagost" <operagost@og.com> writes: > G >>Just like last year at this time.  Anyone know what's going on? I've  O >>submitted requests for base VAX and Layered products umpteen times.  I get a  O >>page back that looks like success but nothing happens.  I tried emailing the  L >>guy, but the only way to do that is using a form and I bet that is broken  >>for the same reason. > C >>Not a good plug for VMS for sure. Well, at least not PHP on VMS.   > I > I'll second the "a spam filter is getting it" guess.  (I bet it's those K > dollar signs that fool 'em)  I had to have mine sent to a hotmail account 8 > and even then they wound up in the 'junk mail' folder.    G I'm having the same problem, too, and I am 99.999% confident that it's  C NOT a spam filter issue on my end.  All my filtered spam goes to a  I specific folder, and I've been fastidiously watching that, just in case.     (Blecch.)   B I've successfully received my paks at my address in years gone by.  E I've made several requests, including requests with deliberately bad  A Encompass member IDs (which it caught during form processing, as  C expected), various email addresses (no response, including both my  E alphant dotcom and openvms dotorg addresses), both OS & LP paks, and  B also the form for assistance.  I've not gotten a nibble back from  anything I've tried.  E I've also gone to Encompass to ensure my membership number was valid.   F My licenses expire tomorrow, and I am starting to sweat...  I've been F working on this for a week.  I understand the volunteer nature of the C organization, but I would expect an answer to my "contact us" form  F submission within a few days.  Unless Montagar is using subject lines B like "sugper vi gag ra", I'm afraid I'm not seeing their emails...  J Something's awry from my perspective, so I'd have to agree with operagost.   Aaron    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 08:35:42 -0700 3 From: Alan Frisbie <Usenet01REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com> . Subject: Re: Hobbyist site licenses DOWN AGAIN. Message-ID: <415984CE.5040604@Flying-Disk.com>   operagost wrote:G > Just like last year at this time.  Anyone know what's going on? I've  O > submitted requests for base VAX and Layered products umpteen times.  I get a  O > page back that looks like success but nothing happens.  I tried emailing the  L > guy, but the only way to do that is using a form and I bet that is broken  > for the same reason.  ; I had the same problem about a month ago when I was getting < a friend's system set up.   After waiting a week, I e-mailed> David Cathay and he replied that the procedure had been broken9 but was now fixed.   I'm guessing that it's broken again.    Alan   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Sep 2004 22:54:01 -0700' From: icerq4a@spray.se (David Svensson) 5 Subject: Re: HP admits discontinued IA64 workstations = Message-ID: <734da31c.0409272154.6cd0812d@posting.google.com>   a JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message news:<415722B3.2AF21DA5@teksavvy.com>...  > David J Dachtera wrote: F > > Rebuffing the ubiquitous platform (IA32 and its current successor,K > > x86-64)) in favor of a target that is hoped to assume Alpha's place was D > > proof positive that the choice-makers of the time were hoplessly > > deranged and deluded.  > J > Not that bad. Remember that initially, IA64 was to replace the aging andN > thought to be near its limits 8086 architecture. IA64 was to go from desktopF > to mainframe, be a young new revolutionary platform that would allowV > mainframes to cost a lot less since they would be using high volume commodity chips.  E Oh, you are taking on the usual FUD, that IA64 was about to take over F the world (something that some analysts predicted). Intel's Andy GroveE (and other Intel people) said several times during the 90's and later , that x86 is not something that will go away.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 06:25:48 GMT   From: CJT <abujlehc@prodigy.net>5 Subject: Re: HP admits discontinued IA64 workstations * Message-ID: <415903EC.7020303@prodigy.net>   David Svensson wrote: c > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message news:<4157E12B.4FC719D1@teksavvy.com>...  >  >>David Svensson wrote:  >>I >>>I think I have seen HP saying about 30% of Superdome sales are Windows  >>>installations.  >>7 >>Perhaps 30% of IA64 based Superdomes are for Windows.  >  > F > Yes, ofcourse, IA64 was implied since the discussion was about IA64. >  > K >>And since IA64 represents such a small part of enterprise revenus, a high > >>number of systems means that they must be deeply discounted. >  > 2 > I don't know how you can draw that conclusion...  H A large number of systems at (near) full price might be expected to be a( significant part of enterprise revenues.   --  D The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt toC minimize spam.  Our true address is of the form che...@prodigy.net.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 06:27:34 GMT   From: CJT <abujlehc@prodigy.net>5 Subject: Re: HP admits discontinued IA64 workstations * Message-ID: <41590455.2070809@prodigy.net>   David Svensson wrote: c > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message news:<415722B3.2AF21DA5@teksavvy.com>...  >  >>David J Dachtera wrote:  >>E >>>Rebuffing the ubiquitous platform (IA32 and its current successor, J >>>x86-64)) in favor of a target that is hoped to assume Alpha's place wasC >>>proof positive that the choice-makers of the time were hoplessly  >>>deranged and deluded. >>J >>Not that bad. Remember that initially, IA64 was to replace the aging andN >>thought to be near its limits 8086 architecture. IA64 was to go from desktopF >>to mainframe, be a young new revolutionary platform that would allowV >>mainframes to cost a lot less since they would be using high volume commodity chips. >  > G > Oh, you are taking on the usual FUD, that IA64 was about to take over H > the world (something that some analysts predicted). Intel's Andy GroveG > (and other Intel people) said several times during the 90's and later . > that x86 is not something that will go away.  D I don't think the 8080 has "gone away" yet, so that's a fairly empty
 statement.   --  D The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt toC minimize spam.  Our true address is of the form che...@prodigy.net.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 12:14:19 +0100 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> 5 Subject: Re: HP admits discontinued IA64 workstations 0 Message-ID: <cjbh2c$rgg$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Dirk Munk wrote: > JF Mezei wrote:  > * >> Another aspect about that announcement: >>D >> It isn't being read as HP discontinuing two specific models, but  >> rathers as HP' >> permanently pulling out of a market.  >  > K > Exactly ! The IA64 is suppose to be the successor of the PA-Risc and the  J > Alpha, including the operating systems. If HP is discontinuing the IA64 I > line of workstations permanently, than that means they will not be any  J > HP-UX or VMS workstations in the future. Not a very good signal at this  > time.  >   G Quite, HP currently has 5 PA-RISC Workstations and 3 Alpha Workstations B running HP-UX, Linux, Tru64 and OpenVMS. Customers currently usingD HP-UX, Tru64 and OpenVMS now have no products in HP's roadmap except7 derived servers to support their existing applications.   2 The only option is to migrate to Linux or Windows.   Regards  Andrew Harrison  >  >>E >> Had HP said that it was streamlining its production and combining   >> workstationG >> with low end servers, the news would have been much better received.  >>I >> However the message here is that HP is widthdrawing from a market and  	 >> giving L >> the *impression* that there won't be any IA64 based workstations anymore. >>> >> If HP can't manage news, image and perceptions, then it is  >> incompetant. And weG >> know that carly knows exactly how important image and perception is.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 12:07:56 GMT   From: CJT <abujlehc@prodigy.net>5 Subject: Re: HP admits discontinued IA64 workstations * Message-ID: <4159541D.8030602@prodigy.net>  ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: > Dirk Munk wrote: >  >> JF Mezei wrote: >>+ >>> Another aspect about that announcement:  >>> E >>> It isn't being read as HP discontinuing two specific models, but   >>> rathers as HP ( >>> permanently pulling out of a market. >> >> >>H >> Exactly ! The IA64 is suppose to be the successor of the PA-Risc and J >> the Alpha, including the operating systems. If HP is discontinuing the H >> IA64 line of workstations permanently, than that means they will not J >> be any HP-UX or VMS workstations in the future. Not a very good signal  >> at this time. >> > I > Quite, HP currently has 5 PA-RISC Workstations and 3 Alpha Workstations D > running HP-UX, Linux, Tru64 and OpenVMS. Customers currently usingF > HP-UX, Tru64 and OpenVMS now have no products in HP's roadmap except9 > derived servers to support their existing applications.  > 4 > The only option is to migrate to Linux or Windows.   ... or Solaris.  <g>   > 	 > Regards  > Andrew Harrison  >  >> >>> F >>> Had HP said that it was streamlining its production and combining  >>> workstation H >>> with low end servers, the news would have been much better received. >>> J >>> However the message here is that HP is widthdrawing from a market and 
 >>> givingE >>> the *impression* that there won't be any IA64 based workstations   >>> anymore. >>> ? >>> If HP can't manage news, image and perceptions, then it is   >>> incompetant. And we H >>> know that carly knows exactly how important image and perception is. >  >      --  D The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt toC minimize spam.  Our true address is of the form che...@prodigy.net.    ------------------------------   Date: 28 Sep 2004 12:38:33 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)5 Subject: Re: HP admits discontinued IA64 workstations + Message-ID: <2rt4a9F1dtd0jU1@uni-berlin.de>   , In article <4158ABFE.23AEB204@teksavvy.com>,0 	JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > Bill Gunshannon wrote:L >> statement?  You tried to state, like other here, that Sun was a latecomer- >> to the x86 arena and that just isn't true.  > L > I don't recall ever holding the opinion that Sun was a late comer to 8086.  I Sorry if I mis-understood but you recently said: "Well, there is FUD aout K Sun moving to 8086 so it can abandon Sparc."  Considering that the talk of  E Sun abondoning Sparc is recent and you equated "moving to 8086" with  I "abondoning Sparc" it sounded like you were accusing Sun of only recently 6 moving to 8086 specifically as a replacement to Sparc.  N >                                                                            IK > do recall that a couple years ago, Sun was to widthdraw from the 8086 and 6 > customer outcry forced a revision of that decision.   L A point in Sun's favor and against HP/Compaq.  At least they listen to theirJ customers rather than adopting the typical MS attitude of "we know what is  best for you and your business".   > H > What has happened since however is that the 8086 has continued to gainO > respectability in enterprise to a point where it is now a 64 bit architecture N > that is taken quite seriously and is now competing against Sparc, whereas in5 > the past, the 8086 was clearly separate from Sparc.   H So what?  Sun has already demonstrated that they are willing to considerB supporting a platform based strictly on the needs/desires of theirH customers.  As long as there are Sparc customers I suspect there will be Sparc support.   >  >>  You try to intimate thatI >> adding support for the x86 is intended to give them a way out of SparcN+ >> development and sales.  that isn't true.3 > O > Nop. I mentioned that the adoption of 64 bit 8086 by Sun has resulted in manyq! > predicting the death of Sparc. g  L Yeah, and the imminent death of Unix has been predicted since the early 90'sL (Byte, September 1992).  None of the Unix vendors took it seriously and I amI quite certain that Sun doesn't take the impending death of Sparc any morey
 seriously.  N >                                I think I am on record as combatting this FUDP > here in this forum. Nevertheless, while Sun may currently have decided to keepO > both Sparc and 8086 doors opened, it remain possible that the the differences9L > between sparc and 8086 will eventually make Sparc redundant at Sun. But itN > hasn't happened yet, and I thknk that Sun is being very smart in keeping its > doors opened.$  J I think it much more likely, based on corporate history, that IA64 will goK away long before Sparc.  Just like there are still enough customers to keepeN the PDP-11 going I am certain there are more Sparc customers and Sun has shown- it's commitment to supporting it's customers.t   >  > M >> we can always switch to linux or windows"  Well, as far as Linux goes thatk& >> applies equally well to the Sparc.  > M > Yes. But face it, when people talk about Linux, the "default" assumption istJ > that it is on cheap 8086 servers. And this si where the commercial LinuxO > software is being targetted.  If Adobe starts to make Photoshop run on Linux, N > do you really think that they will support all the platforms that Linux runs > on ? > I > Linux may be open source, but the important applications that are beingEN > poorted to it are now commercial apps, not the open source utilities written > by geeks.c  H Don't be too sure of that.  There is an Opensource Office Suite to rivalI MS's.  There is an equivalent to PhotoShop that is Opensource.  There areCO (and soon will be more that once were commercial) Opensource database packages.-J And not all Opensource sogtware is written by "geeks".  Many professionals8 with impressive credentials work on Opensource software.   bill   -- KJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 20:07:23 +0800  From: prep@prep.synonet.come5 Subject: Re: HP admits discontinued IA64 workstationsp- Message-ID: <87zn3a7g1w.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   ( Jan-Erik Sderholm <aaa@aaa.com> writes:  : > "Patrick MOREAU, CENA Athis, Tel: 01.69.57.68.40" wrote:  < >> ... but having no sound support on IA64 is pretty stupid.  - > (I Expect we are talking VMS here, right ?)i  = > Who needs a box in a server room that makes sounds, besidest > of the "beep" at power on...  G Someone who wants several thousand systems to product their movie? Theyo& have this new type called `talkies'...  F Perhaps DECs involvment with `Titanic' was far more prophetic than any	 expected.    -- m< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 17:35:32 +0200i0 From: Keith Cayemberg <keith.cayemberg@arcor.de>C Subject: Interbase on VMS (was Re: "Oracle RDB" licensing question) B Message-ID: <415984c4$0$26671$9b4e6d93@newsread2.arcor-online.net>   John Smith wrote:U > Neil Rieck wrote:= > 0 >>"John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message( >>news:gKudnckJ1OqpsMXcRVn-tQ@igs.net... >> >>[snip] >>G >>>Interbase, which I happen to think was a pretty good DBMS on VMS, iseG >>>now open source though there has been no official VMS support for itk
 >>>for a longhF >>>time. But at $80k for 2-cpu RDB license maybe somebody could make aD >>>living selling 20 support contracts annually of Interbase on VMS. >>>  >>A >>Visiting www.interbase.com takes you to www.Borland.com where InF >>didn't see any Open Source info. Is Borland talking about putting it >>into an Open Source model? >  >  > * > www.sourceforge.net/search   "interbase" >  >     H Although OpenVMS was once a major InterBase platform. I have never been G able to find any binaries for VMS within the last several years. And I bG believe OpenVMS hasn't been actively supported by InterBase developers rF for many years, and I'm nearly certain that this support stopped long J before InterBase was released to the open source community in August 2000.  E This may mean that all available open source versions will need some  3 porting work before it runs comfortably on OpenVMS.1  H Please also consider the support user's have been getting for currently . supported platforms at the open source site...  E http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=201962&group_id=1962&func=browsem  A The "open" support requests go back almost to when InterBase was  & released to the open source community.  D I do not wish to FUD InterBase, but I do want to point out that one I should carefully consider the needs of their task and environment and as nG carefully research how well the potential solutions cover those needs. .C Certainly there are customers that would find InterBase fits their I unique set of needs.  I Also, Database  Technology is a highly complex world in itself, in which  H the details can matter very much! Correct DB comparisons of fitness for H a job can require a great deal of tenacity. My experience Rdb has shown ? me that a database can have a great deal more mission-critical dB cleverness and sophistication than you will find described in any G marketing brochure or university textbook. (IMO only to be experienced o) in an Rdb Internals class on this planet)   B It may very well be that I have missed some significant InterBase H support sources (my last detailed search was a couple years ago), and I : would be very interested to know what I've missed as well.  I To facilitate anyone else's research over InterBase, I'm providing below s" my sources of info on InterBase...    ( _Potential Sources of InterBase Support_  8 InterBase 6.0 Open Source SQL Database - SourceForge.net* http://sourceforge.net/projects/interbase/  ; Borland InterBase Software Cross Platform Embedded Databasef+ http://www.borland.com/interbase/index.html   3 IBDI - Die InterBase Entwickler Initiative - Germans http://www.interbase2000.de/   IBPhoenix -t http://www.ibphoenix.com/n    D _InterBase History - interesting relationship to Datatrieve and Rdb_  + How did Interbase appear? - Wayback MachineoU http://web.archive.org/web/20030810013409/http://www.cvalde.com/misc/how_appeared.htm/   Interbase: A Bedtime Story3 http://www.frayernet.com/PC_Life/pc_life_2_2_92.htms  0 Die Interbase Entwicklungsgeschichte - in German1 http://www.interbase2000.de/IBAbout/IbRoadmap.htmn  " Wie Interbase entstand - in German( http://www.interbase2000.de/hist/ah1.htm  H Client Server NEWS 364 Sept. 1, 2000 - InterBase Rises - Wayback MachineK http://web.archive.org/web/20040227204130/http://www.ibphoenix.com/a641.htma     Cheers!d   Keith Cayembergv   ------------------------------   Date: 28 Sep 2004 13:03:58 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)M Subject: Re: Must read on past failures needing correction for VMS to survived+ Message-ID: <2rt5puF1e9r4nU1@uni-berlin.de>a  , In article <cjasjm$ecs$1@madmax.keyway.net>,. 	terry golden <terrygolden@brandx.net> writes:F > I came across a really frank article on why DEC failed in marketing. > E > Anyway here's the link http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/33362.html  > J >                                                     4) Not Invented Here > mind set i >   H Seeing this from a Linux advocate has to be the funniest thing I've read in quite some time.n   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   t   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 11:46:29 +0100uO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>i& Subject: Re: OT: Sun's fighting chance0 Message-ID: <cjbfe6$qu9$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   David Svensson wrote:sc > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message news:<415324FC.9DE61861@teksavvy.com>...  > 5 >>You know, this talk about "open" got me thinking...  >>L >>Imagine IF, unhindered by the unwanted port to IA64, the VMS engineers hadJ >>managed to give VMS a linux compatibility layer, complete with FX32! andG >>delivered this FASTER than Sun's equivalent which is expected "soon".V >  > E > Sun's solution isn't emulating a CPU. Their Solaris x86 OS will run0A > Linux x86 binaries, which isn't exactly rocket science. Similar?F > projects exists in several other operating systems. The question, as2 > usual, is how good the support for this will be. > ? The initial release is targeted at running all the applicationss3 currently qualified for RedHat Advanced Server 2.1.    > ? >>The marketing opportunities would have been very interesting.s >  > D > Not very, it would just validate the reason that you could run the+ > software on a real Linux machine instead.e  @ Not really, dtrace for example provides a level of observability> for developers and deployers that is unlikely to be replicated4 by the OpenSource community in the forseable future.  A And dtrace is only one example of areas where Solaris leads linuxu/ by a very wide margin as a deployment platform.o  : Security, resource management, virtualisation, scalability2 and cost for example are also in Solaris's favour.  ; So take the app that you cannot be bothered to port and run' it on a better platform.   Regardsr Andrew Harrisona   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 12:00:57 +0100uO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>.F Subject: Re: Slashdot is reporting HP is dropping Itanium workstations0 Message-ID: <cjbg9b$r9i$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Vance Haemmerle wrote: > Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > 2 >> "Glenn Everhart" <gce@gce.com> wrote in message# >> news:41545022.7050107@gce.com...e >>C >>> Anyone able to tell if it is so? If so what of our favorite OS?m >>> Glenn Everhart >> >> >>H >> Those paying attention would have noticed that the zx2000 and zx6000  >> never$ >> showed up on the OpenVMS roadmap. >>K >> While I am not happy about it, I have said for a long time that it isn'tA9 >> possible to compete with a high-end PC on the desktop.4 >> >> >> > B >   Here's the chance to get VMS supported on Itanium workstations > from other vendors. ;)  E Dell, IBM, Gateway and Fujitsu do not produce Itanium workstations so C HP has effectively killed the market for them though you still have 3 access to white box vendors if you really need one./  E Dell, Fujitsu, and IBM had already dropped their Itanium workstations  or plans to do them.   Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 12:09:09 +0100dO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>sF Subject: Re: Slashdot is reporting HP is dropping Itanium workstations0 Message-ID: <cjbgom$rcn$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   John Smith wrote:T > John Reagan wrote: >  >>John Smith wrote:  >> >>>Glenn Everhart wrote: >>>  >>>)C >>>>Anyone able to tell if it is so? If so what of our favorite OS?  >>>>Glenn Everhart >>>7 >>>) >>>tF >>>The HP apologists will say that the effort over the past 3 years ofA >>>porting VMS to Itanic will not have been wasted, that the codeiG >>>cleanup alone will have been worth the loss of sales and profits and- >>>reputation. >>>-F >>>The realists will be wanting to find a couple of lengths of rope, aE >>>nearby tree, and deputize a posse looking for curly and carly(tm).a >>>i >>>u >>F >>While this is all news to me as well, OpenVMS I64 isn't targetted toD >>the workstations anyway.  The rx1600, rx2600, rx4640, etc. are allB >>rackmounted server machines.  All of OpenVMS' intended supported$ >>configuartions are still in place. >  >  > N > Economies of scale my lad. Without workstations, which are sold in multiplesL > of server sales, the process never ramps up enough to slide costs down theK > production cost curve enough to make the chip anything but a niche bit ofh: > silicon. Alpha redux. Next step - outright cancellation. >   D While this may not spell the end of Itanium it certainly isn't goingC to help particularly at the low end. The requirements for processorkB in a desktop of a low and blade/server are similar and the lack ofA a volume workstation market will reduce the incentive on Intel toA  invest in CPU's for that market.  M > And even if that's not the case, what do you think that Sun and IBM will beiI > telling every single HP customer -- PH-UX, Tru64, VMS, NSK?? They'll bemL > saying that HP can't be trusted and here's the proof, and many will agree.N > The unix/linux  users will disappears faster and easier than the VMS and NSK > customers because they can.s >   < We have been for some time and with plenty of ammunition all supplied by HP.m  2 The Alphacide and subsequent cut in Alpha roadmap.$ The Tru64/HP-UX 11i debacle etc etc.  8 The axing of the Itanium workstaion family at HP is just1 another nail in the allready shut Itanium coffin.f   Regardsp Andrew Harrisons   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 12:50:32 +0100.O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>e( Subject: Tiny pickings for Itanium OEM's0 Message-ID: <cjbj69$s7s$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>  A Gartners latest take on the Itanium market show just how marginalb itanium is.    The numbers are for Q2 2004.   Vendor		Numbers of Systems HP		4789 SGI		287 IBM		208 NEC		38,1 The rest (Dell, Hitachi, Fujitsu, Unisys, Samsung* plus white box) 343o   Total		5665p  5 The total value of the Itanium market for the first 2 4 quarters was 606 Million or 303 million per quarter.  3 One has to ask why Dell, Unisys, NEC, etc are stillr
 bothering.   Regardsr Andrew Harrison3   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 10:06:01 -0400m# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>E, Subject: Re: Tiny pickings for Itanium OEM's, Message-ID: <UPadnfd3Js5V8sTcRVn-iA@igs.net>   Main, Kerry wrote: >> -----Original Message------* >> From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy1 >> [mailto:Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com]s# >> Sent: September 28, 2004 7:51 AM. >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com+ >> Subject: Tiny pickings for Itanium OEM'sm >> >> >>D >> Gartners latest take on the Itanium market show just how marginal >> itanium is. >> >> The numbers are for Q2 2004.  >> >> Vendor Numbers of Systems
 >> HP 4789
 >> SGI 287
 >> IBM 208	 >> NEC 38-4 >> The rest (Dell, Hitachi, Fujitsu, Unisys, Samsung >> plus white box) 343 >>
 >> Total 5665- >>8 >> The total value of the Itanium market for the first 27 >> quarters was 606 Million or 303 million per quarter.- >>6 >> One has to ask why Dell, Unisys, NEC, etc are still
 >> bothering.( >>
 >> Regards >> Andrew Harrison >> >I	 > Andrew,0 >eG > So why is Sun still considering releasing (apparently port is alreadyn > done) Solaris on Itanium?h >J > Reference: July 20, 2004J > http://news.com.com/Sun+ponders+Solaris+for+Power%2C+Itanium/2100-1016_3 > -5277375.html  >kH > "Sun Microsystems, which has already resurrected its Solaris operatingA > system for one processor architecture, is considering a furtherl> > expansion to Intel's Itanium and IBM's Power chip families." >r
 > [snip..] >eD > "Solaris is working on Itanium servers in the lab, Schwartz said."      J Apparently because Sun hedges its bets about which processor its customersC will choose and does not "burn its boats behind them", unlike othere
 companies.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 15:37:00 +0100 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>a, Subject: Re: Tiny pickings for Itanium OEM's0 Message-ID: <cjbsue$2l9$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Main, Kerry wrote: >>-----Original Message-----* >>From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy 1 >>[mailto:Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com]  " >>Sent: September 28, 2004 7:51 AM >>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComP* >>Subject: Tiny pickings for Itanium OEM's >> >> >>C >>Gartners latest take on the Itanium market show just how marginalS
 >>itanium is.  >> >>The numbers are for Q2 2004. >> >>Vendor		Numbers of Systems
 >>HP		4789
 >>SGI		287
 >>IBM		208	 >>NEC		38y3 >>The rest (Dell, Hitachi, Fujitsu, Unisys, SamsungI >>plus white box) 343e >>
 >>Total		5665e >>7 >>The total value of the Itanium market for the first 2 6 >>quarters was 606 Million or 303 million per quarter. >>5 >>One has to ask why Dell, Unisys, NEC, etc are still  >>bothering. >>	 >>Regardsl >>Andrew Harrisong >> >  > 
 > Andrew,  > G > So why is Sun still considering releasing (apparently port is already  > done) Solaris on Itanium?s >  > Reference: July 20, 2004J > http://news.com.com/Sun+ponders+Solaris+for+Power%2C+Itanium/2100-1016_3 > -5277375.htmlr > H > "Sun Microsystems, which has already resurrected its Solaris operatingA > system for one processor architecture, is considering a furtherh> > expansion to Intel's Itanium and IBM's Power chip families." > 
 > [snip..] > D > "Solaris is working on Itanium servers in the lab, Schwartz said." >   6 You made this point earlier and if you remember got it batted straight back at you.  # But since then things have changed.d  9 http://www.theregister.com/2004/09/11/intel_sun_solarium/-  ' Making your point even less compelling.3   Regardsm Andrew Harrisono	 > Regardsa >  > Kerry Main > Senior ConsultantI > HP Services Canada > Voice: 613-592-4660s > Fax: 613-591-44779 > kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom > (remove the DOT's and AT)  > & > "OpenVMS has always had integrity ..  > Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .." >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 16:14:16 +0100gO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>k, Subject: Re: Tiny pickings for Itanium OEM's0 Message-ID: <cjbv49$3cr$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Soterro wrote:* > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: > & >> But since then things have changed.< >> http://www.theregister.com/2004/09/11/intel_sun_solarium/ >  > H > Neither there any mention about OpenVMS when it came to the HP's "key  > high-end operating system"...  >   B What did you expect, even the Register which is relatively OpenVMS@ friendly cannot remember to include OpenVMS in HP's list of OS's du Jour.   Regards- Andrew Harrison-   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 17:09:32 +0200n! From: Soterro <soterroatyahoocom>j, Subject: Re: Tiny pickings for Itanium OEM's9 Message-ID: <41597e2b$0$329$4d4ef98e@read.news.ch.uu.net>s  ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:% > But since then things have changed.i; > http://www.theregister.com/2004/09/11/intel_sun_solarium/H  F Neither there any mention about OpenVMS when it came to the HP's "key  high-end operating system"...f   Sn   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 11:23:45 -0400r' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com>g, Subject: RE: Tiny pickings for Itanium OEM'sR Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB45D38D@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----, > From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy=203 > [mailto:Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com]=20e# > Sent: September 28, 2004 10:37 AMH > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comd. > Subject: Re: Tiny pickings for Itanium OEM's >=20   [snip..]   >=208 > You made this point earlier and if you remember got it > batted straight back at you. >=20% > But since then things have changed.  >=20; > http://www.theregister.com/2004/09/11/intel_sun_solarium/  >=20) > Making your point even less compelling.  >=20	 > Regards, > Andrew Harrisond > > Regardse > >=20   Thx for the pointer.  D As the article states, once the ego's on both sides (Intel-Sun) stop2 with the rhetoric, then who knows what may happen:  C "While Sun still seems a bit wishy-washy on the Itanium front, it's H clear that this is a real proposition for the company. If Intel wants to< boost Itanium sales, it would be wise to curry Sun's favor."   Regardse  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultantt HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660' Fax: 613-591-4477e kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  $ "OpenVMS has always had integrity .. Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .."   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 16:22:43 +0100aO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>o, Subject: Re: Tiny pickings for Itanium OEM's0 Message-ID: <cjbvk4$3jt$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   John Smith wrote:s > Main, Kerry wrote: >  >>>-----Original Message-----t* >>>From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy1 >>>[mailto:Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com]g# >>>Sent: September 28, 2004 7:51 AM9 >>>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com+ >>>Subject: Tiny pickings for Itanium OEM'se >>>m >>>  >>> D >>>Gartners latest take on the Itanium market show just how marginal >>>itanium is. >>>  >>>The numbers are for Q2 2004.a >>>  >>>Vendor Numbers of Systems
 >>>HP 4789
 >>>SGI 287
 >>>IBM 208	 >>>NEC 38s4 >>>The rest (Dell, Hitachi, Fujitsu, Unisys, Samsung >>>plus white box) 343 >>>i
 >>>Total 5665t >>>v8 >>>The total value of the Itanium market for the first 27 >>>quarters was 606 Million or 303 million per quarter.P >>>,6 >>>One has to ask why Dell, Unisys, NEC, etc are still
 >>>bothering.o >>>n
 >>>Regards >>>Andrew Harrison >>>t >>	 >>Andrew,e >>G >>So why is Sun still considering releasing (apparently port is alreadya >>done) Solaris on Itanium?b >> >>Reference: July 20, 2004J >>http://news.com.com/Sun+ponders+Solaris+for+Power%2C+Itanium/2100-1016_3 >>-5277375.htmly >>H >>"Sun Microsystems, which has already resurrected its Solaris operatingA >>system for one processor architecture, is considering a furthert> >>expansion to Intel's Itanium and IBM's Power chip families." >>
 >>[snip..] >>D >>"Solaris is working on Itanium servers in the lab, Schwartz said." >  >  >  > L > Apparently because Sun hedges its bets about which processor its customersE > will choose and does not "burn its boats behind them", unlike otherD > companies. >  > H Incedentally HP apparently shipped 890 Itanium workstations last quarter# or about 15% of the Itanium market.   B Given these volumes you can  understand why the PC unit have taken@ the axe to the Itanium product range though you can also see whyC this may have been a very serious blow to the Itanium Server range.o  @ Being given the role of Itanium Workstation product manager must= have been rather like being the journalist asked to write thet$ horoscopes on sme of our newspapers.     Regards  Andrew Harrisone   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 09:44:22 -0500 ( From: Wayne Sewell <wayne@tachysoft.com>, Subject: weirdness with decnet known objects/ Message-ID: <00A388C8.32B369E8.5@tachysoft.com>   N I have been having a problem at a customer site where a decnet known object is not created properly.  F  I I am using dynamically created objects (via a acpcontrol QIO) rather than5$ static known objects created by NCP.  M The QIO completes successfully (plus a good return code in the IOSB), and the J object appears in "show known objects", but it is malformed.  Normally theJ process id of the creating process appears, but at the customer site it is3 missing.  And the client processes can not connect.t  ( At a normal site, the object appears as:     TAPDB6000006                  0  290000B1   At the customer site, it is:     TAPDB6000006                  0    J So apparently something happened during the create, but there was no errorK reported.  The object isn't really there, even though you can kinda see it.s  O It is a single qio call, so I don't think it's a case of some intermediate step O failing or being missed.  Whatever is happening is inside of decnet and outsideg
 my control  K At all other customer sites, the object is created normally, using the same-L version of the software.  And this mechanism has been used for years.  ThereK have been changes in the communication code, but not in the decnet area (we5N support multiple transport protocols and most recent changes have been related to ICC).  N Has anyone seen this behavior before, or have any ideas what is causing it?  IL checked quotas, which sometimes cause erractic behavior if insufficient.  OfG course, that usually causes a hard error rather than halfassed objects.d    The VMS version is 7.3 on alpha.  J The customer is using phase 5 if that makes a difference, even though I amM using only phase 4 mechanisms and the software normally works at both 4 and 5u sites.   WayneeO =============================================================================== N Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738   wayne@tachysoft.com; http://www.tachysoft.com/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html   -O ===============================================================================eP Larry(sniffing):"I smell something awful." Moe:"Yeah, well don't brag about it."   ------------------------------   Date: 28 Sep 2004 06:01:44 GMT2 From: "Dave Weatherall" <djw-nothere@nospam.nohow>E Subject: Re: [DCL REQUEST] New ignore keyword for DIFFERENCES commanda? Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-7sdmox2HxuEM@dave2_os2.home.ours>r  1 On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 16:12:57 UTC, Dave Greenwood . <greenwoodde@ornl.gov> wrote:e  L > In a previous article, "Dave Weatherall" <djw-nothere@nospam.nohow> wrote:5 > > On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 17:36:00 UTC, Dave Greenwood e! > > <greenwoodde@ornl.gov> wrote:v > >  t
 > > <Snip> > >   M > > > /IGNORE=SPACING ignores "Extra blank spaces or tabs within data lines."rP > > > according to HELP DIFF/IGNORE.  So I think that would solve the problem ofO > > > "$" and "!" separated by any combination of spaces and tabs - assuming itrI > > > was applied before checking for multi-character comment delimiters.c > > > 
 > > > Dave > > > --------------? > > > Dave Greenwood                Email: Greenwoodde@ORNL.GOV4N > > > Oak Ridge National Lab        %STD-W-DISCLAIMER, I only speak for myself > >   E > > I seem to remember that I still occasionally curse the fact that 'G > > /ig=sp still gives me differences when one file has spaces and the hF > > other tabs. You said in another thread you believed that multiple J > > white space was collapsed to single occurrence (of that character) andI > > that's fair. I'd still occasionally like to be able to force DIFF to -J > > have the single tab or space treated as equals and be ignored. I'm notG > > saying I would like the bahaviour changed (hey I'm a VMS bigot and mI > > backward compatibility is a big thing for me) but a new option would b > > be nice. e.g.t > >  . > > 	/ignore=white_space > G > I thought I had had similar problems also.  But I just did some quick J > tests, and it appears to me that /IGNORE=SPACING converts 1 or more tabsH > (or spaces) to a single space.  That seems to already do what you were > requesting above.h > I > What I'd like to see added is /IGNORE=LEADING_SPACES (there's already a E > /IGNORE=TRAILING_SPACES).  That would let me add/remove indentationhG > to/from data lines in .COMs and still use DIFF to insure that's all If
 > changed.  F That was reason for the memory. i.e. last week I had diffed two sourceC files with, for the most part, the same content. They had grown up 6 from different coders.  F I have, for obvious reasons, been trying to get to the point where theB only differences between the two are the INCLUDE statements (it's @ Fortran), the error-reporting and some bits that for historical = reasons will remain different.  Last week I got the 'tabs in lF white-space' differences reported where tabs were in one and spaces inF the other. The lines started out in my original as tabs and EVE kindlyB converted them back to spaces when my colleague updated the other  version.  e I'll have to take another look.    -- 4 Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.539 ************************petant. And weG >> know that carly knows exactly how important image and perception is.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 12:07:56 GMT   From: CJT <abujlehc@prodigy.net>5 Subject: Re: HP admits discontinued IA64 workstations * Message-ID: <4159541D.8030602@prodigy.net>  ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: > Dirk Munk wrote: > k$misc/decus/vax85b/kmskit/vpw/notebook/control/bintstfrm.txt (914 bytes) started.9 >>> 226 Transfer completed.  105 (8) bytes transferred.3 <<< PORT 83,31,156,101,154,34R5 >>> 200 Port 154.34 at Host 83.31.156.101 accepted.c <<< RETR bintstpmt.txtr >>> 150 IMAGE retrieve of /disk$misc/decus/vax85b/kmskit/vpw/notebook/control/bintstpmt.txt (848 bytes) started.9 >>> 226 Transfer completed.  164 (8) bytes transferred.. <<< PORT 83,31,156,101,154,36n5 >>> 200 Port 154.36 at Host 83.31.156.101 accepted.s <<< RETR bintstsrt.txts >>> 150 IMAGE retrieve of /disk$misc/decus/vax85b/kmskit/vpw/notebook/control/bintstsrt.txt (1012 bytes) started.88 >>> 226 Transfer completed.  11 (8) bytes transferred. <<< PORT 83,31,156,101,154,37n5 >>> 200 Port 154.37 at Host 83.31.156.101 accepted.s <<< RETR docforms.txtoq >>> 150 IMAGE retrieve of /disk$misc/decus/vax85b/kmskit/vpw/notebook/control/docforms.txt (796 bytes) started.T9 >>> 226 Transfer completed.  213 (8) bytes transferred.. <<< PORT 83,31,156,101,154,39n5 >>> 200 Port 154.39 at Host 83.31.156.101 accepted.s <<< RETR docprmpt.txtoq >>> 150 IMAGE retrieve of /disk$misc/decus/vax85b/kmskit/vpw/notebook/control/docprmpt.txt (750 bytes) started.T9 >>> 226 Transfer completed.  261 (8) bytes transferred.. <<< PORT 83,31,156,101,154,41c5 >>> 200 Port 154.41 at Host 83.31.156.101 accepted.s <<< RETR docsort.txtq >>> 150 IMAGE retrieve of /disk$misc/decus/vax85b/kmskit/vpw/notebook/control/docsort.txt (1018 bytes) started.O7 >>> 226 Transfer completed.  2 (8) bytes transferred.3 <<< PORT 83,31,156,101,154,43R5 >>> 200 Port 154.43 at Host 83.31.156.101 accepted.d <<< RETR documents.hlps >>> 150 IMAGE retrieve of /disk$misc/decus/vax85b/kmskit/vpw/notebook/control/documents.hlp (3162 bytes) started.O: >>> 226 Transfer completed.  2905 (8) bytes transferred. <<< PORT 83,31,156,101,154,45d5 >>> 200 Port 154.45 at Host 83.31.156.101 accepted.s <<< RETR documents.txtr >>> 150 IMAGE retrieve of /disk$misc/decus/vax85b/kmskit/vpw/notebook/control/documents.txt (772 bytes) started.9 >>> 226 Transfer completed.  240 (8) bytes transferred.5 <<< PORT 83,31,156,101,154,47m5 >>> 200 Port 154.47 at Host 83.31.156.101 accepted.v <<< RETR drawing.txtp >>> 150 IMAGE retrieve of /disk$misc/decus/vax85b/kmskit/vpw/notebook/control/drawing.txt (886 bytes) started.9 >>> 226 Transfer completed.  131 (8) bytes transferred.3 <<< PORT 83,31,156,101,154,49R5 >>> 200 Port 154.49 at Host 83.31.156.101 accepted.d <<< RETR drwforms.txttq >>> 150 IMAGE retrieve of /disk$misc/decus/vax85b/kmskit/vpw/notebook/control/drwforms.txt (976 bytes) started. 8 >>> 226 Transfer completed.  42 (8) bytes transferred. <<< PORT 83,31,156,101,154,51E5 >>> 200 Port 154.51 at Host 83.31.156.101 accepted.d <<< RETR drwingwiz.txtr >>> 150 IMAGE retrieve of /disk$misc/decus/vax85b/kmskit/vpw/notebook/control/drwingwiz.txt (842 bytes) started.9 >>> 226 Transfer completed.  172 (8) bytes transferred.3 <<< PORT 83,31,156,101,154,53d5 >>> 200 Port 154.53 at Host 83.31.156.101 accepted.c <<< RETR drwprmpt.txtbq >>> 150 IMAGE retrieve of /disk$misc/decus/vax85b/kmskit/vpw/notebook/control/drwprmpt.txt (798 bytes) started.T9 >>> 226 Transfer completed.  216 (8) bytes transferred.. <<< PORT 83,31,156,101,154,55w5 >>> 200 Port 154.55 at Host 83.31.156.101 accepted.s <<< RETR drwsort.txtq >>> 150 IMAGE retrieve of /disk$misc/decus/vax85b/kmskit/vpw/notebook/control/drwsort.txt (1018 bytes) started.O7 >>> 