1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 01 Apr 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 182       Contents: Re: /include/nocopy  Re: /include/nocopy  Re: /include/nocopy  Re: /include/nocopy  Re: /include/nocopy  Re: /include/nocopy  Re: /include/nocopy  Re: /include/nocopy  Re: /include/nocopy  Re: /include/nocopy  Re: /include/nocopy  Re: /include/nocopy  Re: /include/nocopy  2node to 3 node cluster setup ! Re: 2node to 3 node cluster setup > Re: A blast from the past - PDP history, and a bit of TECO too> Re: A blast from the past - PDP history, and a bit of TECO too> Re: A blast from the past - PDP history, and a bit of TECO too> Re: A blast from the past - PDP history, and a bit of TECO too> Re: A blast from the past - PDP history, and a bit of TECO too> Re: A blast from the past - PDP history, and a bit of TECO too  Re: AlphaStation 200 power usage  Re: AlphaStation 200 power usage  Re: AlphaStation 200 power usage7 ANN: PWAIT$SDA and MBU freeware updates from Ian Miller  apache shutdown failure  Re: apache shutdown failure  Re: apache shutdown failure  Re: apache shutdown failure  AST  Re: AST  Autogen question Re: Autogen question Re: Autogen question Re: Autogen question Re: Autogen question Re: Autogen question Re: Autogen question Re: Autogen question Re: Autogen question
 Big ol' Texas  Re: Big ol' Texas 1 boot flags for firmware update from a system disk 5 Re: boot flags for firmware update from a system disk & Re: CLD symbol table object on Itanium& Re: CLD symbol table object on Itanium cloning a system disk  Re: cloning a system disk  Re: cloning a system disk  Re: cloning a system disk  Re: cloning a system disk  Re: cloning a system disk  Re: cloning a system disk  Re: cloning a system disk % datesim and rdb soon to be compatible ) Re: datesim and rdb soon to be compatible  Downloading patches via PC?  Re: Downloading patches via PC?  Re: Downloading patches via PC?  Re: Downloading patches via PC?  Re: Downloading patches via PC? 5 Re: DS15 RADEON 7500 hang solved (at least partially)  dvd writing software on OVMS  Re: dvd writing software on OVMS0 Finding The Right Path For Your VMS Applications4 Re: Finding The Right Path For Your VMS Applications4 Re: Finding The Right Path For Your VMS Applications4 Re: Finding The Right Path For Your VMS Applications4 Re: Finding The Right Path For Your VMS Applications- Re: Forgotten system password? (Alpha & 3100) 8 Re: HEADS UP - HP OpenVMS Announcment from Rich Marcello8 Re: HEADS UP - HP OpenVMS Announcment from Rich Marcello8 Re: HEADS UP - HP OpenVMS Announcment from Rich Marcello8 Re: HEADS UP - HP OpenVMS Announcment from Rich Marcello8 Re: HEADS UP - HP OpenVMS Announcment from Rich Marcello Re: History of the VMS shark Re: History of the VMS shark Re: History of the VMS shark Re: History of the VMS shark Re: History of the VMS shark Re: History of the VMS shark1 HP names Mark Gorham as VP of home sales division 5 Re: HP names Mark Gorham as VP of home sales division % Lantronix Netzkerte in Alphaserver400 ) Re: Lantronix Netzkerte in Alphaserver400  Mark Hurd from NCR new HP CEO * Re: New HP CEO Announced - Mark Hurd (NCR)& New HP CEO Announced - Mark Hurd (NCR)* Re: New HP CEO Announced - Mark Hurd (NCR)* Re: New HP CEO Announced - Mark Hurd (NCR)* Re: New HP CEO Announced - Mark Hurd (NCR)* Re: New HP CEO Announced - Mark Hurd (NCR)* Re: New HP CEO Announced - Mark Hurd (NCR)* Re: New HP CEO Announced - Mark Hurd (NCR)* Re: New HP CEO Announced - Mark Hurd (NCR)* Re: New HP CEO Announced - Mark Hurd (NCR)* Re: New HP CEO Announced - Mark Hurd (NCR)* Re: New HP CEO Announced - Mark Hurd (NCR)* Re: New HP CEO Announced - Mark Hurd (NCR)* Re: New HP CEO Announced - Mark Hurd (NCR)* Re: New HP CEO Announced - Mark Hurd (NCR)* Re: New HP CEO Announced - Mark Hurd (NCR)* Re: New HP CEO Announced - Mark Hurd (NCR)* Re: New HP CEO Announced - Mark Hurd (NCR)* Re: New HP CEO Announced - Mark Hurd (NCR)* Re: New HP CEO Announced - Mark Hurd (NCR)* Re: New HP CEO Announced - Mark Hurd (NCR)* Re: New HP CEO Announced - Mark Hurd (NCR)* Re: New HP CEO Announced - Mark Hurd (NCR)* Re: New HP CEO Announced - Mark Hurd (NCR)! Re: New smart use of computer.... 4 News.com: HP names NCR leader as new chief executive' non-US-ASCII characters in mail headers + Re: non-US-ASCII characters in mail headers + Re: non-US-ASCII characters in mail headers + Re: non-US-ASCII characters in mail headers + Re: non-US-ASCII characters in mail headers + Re: non-US-ASCII characters in mail headers + Re: non-US-ASCII characters in mail headers + Re: non-US-ASCII characters in mail headers  Open Vms 8.2 licenses  Re: Open Vms 8.2 licenses  Re: Open Vms 8.2 licenses  Re: Open Vms 8.2 licenses  Re: OpenVMS 8.2 for a hobbyist Re: OpenVMS 8.2 for a hobbyist Re: OpenVMS 8.2 for a hobbyist Re: OpenVMS 8.2 for a hobbyist Re: OpenVMS 8.2 for a hobbyist Re: OpenVMS 8.2 for a hobbyist Re: OpenVMS 8.2 for a hobbyist Re: OpenVMS 8.2 for a hobbyist Re: OpenVMS 8.2 for a hobbyist Re: OpenVMS 8.2 for a hobbyist Re: OpenVMS 8.2 for a hobbyist OT: Ink expiry Re: OT: Ink expiry Re: OT: Ink expiry. OT: Linux Kernel: coupling and maintainability2 Re: OT: Linux Kernel: coupling and maintainability2 Re: OT: Linux Kernel: coupling and maintainability2 Re: OT: Linux Kernel: coupling and maintainability2 Re: OT: Linux Kernel: coupling and maintainability OT: The good old days  Re: OT: The good old days ! poor  disk I/O performace on ds25 $ Re: poor disk I/O performace on ds25 ports 135, 445, 139 and 1433  Re: ports 135, 445, 139 and 1433  Re: ports 135, 445, 139 and 1433  Re: ports 135, 445, 139 and 1433  Re: ports 135, 445, 139 and 1433  Re: ports 135, 445, 139 and 1433  Re: ports 135, 445, 139 and 1433  Re: ports 135, 445, 139 and 1433  Re: ports 135, 445, 139 and 1433  Re: ports 135, 445, 139 and 1433  Re: ports 135, 445, 139 and 1433  Re: ports 135, 445, 139 and 1433  Re: ports 135, 445, 139 and 1433  Re: ports 135, 445, 139 and 1433 Possible faulty drive  Re: Possible faulty drive  Re: Possible faulty drive  Re: Possible faulty drive  Re: Possible faulty drive  Re: Possible faulty drive  Re: Possible faulty drive + Procedure for installing PERL modules (LWP) / Re: Procedure for installing PERL modules (LWP) # Re: Question on DCL f<dollar>string  Re: reading RS232 port Re: reading RS232 port Re: reading RS232 port Re: reading RS232 port( Re: Request for feedback - Remote CTRL-T  Restartable file transfer server$ Re: Restartable file transfer server$ Re: Restartable file transfer server$ Re: Restartable file transfer server$ Re: Restartable file transfer server$ Re: Restartable file transfer server$ Re: Restartable file transfer server$ Re: Restartable file transfer server$ Re: Restartable file transfer server$ Re: Restartable file transfer server$ Re: Restartable file transfer server RGB to VGA rackmount monitors  Re: Script Kiddie tarpit wanted  Script Kiddie tarpit wanted  Re: Script Kiddie tarpit wanted  Re: Script Kiddie tarpit wanted  Re: Script Kiddie tarpit wanted  Re: Script Kiddie tarpit wanted  Re: Script Kiddie tarpit wanted  Re: Script Kiddie tarpit wanted  Re: Script Kiddie tarpit wanted  Re: Script Kiddie tarpit wanted  Re: Script Kiddie tarpit wanted  Re: Script Kiddie tarpit wanted  Re: Script Kiddie tarpit wanted  Re: Script Kiddie tarpit wanted  Re: Script Kiddie tarpit wanted  Re: Script Kiddie tarpit wanted  Re: Script Kiddie tarpit wanted  Re: Script Kiddie tarpit wanted  Re: Script Kiddie tarpit wanted  Re: Script Kiddie tarpit wanted  Re: Script Kiddie tarpit wanted  Re: Script Kiddie tarpit wanted B Send data to an interactive VMS application from a Windows system?F Re: Send data to an interactive VMS application from a Windows system?F Re: Send data to an interactive VMS application from a Windows system?, ServerWatch: HP Shows Some OpenVMS Integrity0 Re: ServerWatch: HP Shows Some OpenVMS Integrity Re: shadow minicopy  Re: shadow minicopy 
 Re: Sybase
 Re: Sybase
 Re: Tape Init 
 Re: Tape Init ( TCPIP 5.4 patch kits: cumulative or not?, Re: TCPIP 5.4 patch kits: cumulative or not?P Re: TCPIP 5.4: obsolete information in HELP, what are new defaults (clusteralias Re: TCPIP SHOW ROUTE Re: TCPIP SHOW ROUTE Re: TCPIP SHOW ROUTE Re: TCPIP SHOW ROUTE Re: TCPIP SHOW ROUTE test- please ignoe Re: test- please ignoe Re: test- please ignoe Re: test- please ignoe Re: test- please ignoe Re: test- please ignoe Re: test- please ignoe Re: test- please ignoe' There is certainly opportunity in chaos + Re: There is certainly opportunity in chaos + Re: There is certainly opportunity in chaos + Re: There is certainly opportunity in chaos + Re: There is certainly opportunity in chaos + Re: There is certainly opportunity in chaos + Re: There is certainly opportunity in chaos + Re: There is certainly opportunity in chaos + Re: There is certainly opportunity in chaos  TURN YOUR $6 INTO $10,000++  Update I/O Option Firmware Re: Update I/O Option Firmware Re: Update I/O Option Firmware Updated Rdb 7.2 Field Test Kit0 VAX 4000/90A mouse and keyboard to a KVM switch?4 Re: VAX 4000/90A mouse and keyboard to a KVM switch?4 Re: VAX 4000/90A mouse and keyboard to a KVM switch?4 Re: VAX 4000/90A mouse and keyboard to a KVM switch?4 Re: VAX 4000/90A mouse and keyboard to a KVM switch?4 Re: VAX 4000/90A mouse and keyboard to a KVM switch?4 Re: VAX 4000/90A mouse and keyboard to a KVM switch?4 Re: VAX 4000/90A mouse and keyboard to a KVM switch?4 Re: VAX 4000/90A mouse and keyboard to a KVM switch?4 Re: VAX 4000/90A mouse and keyboard to a KVM switch?4 Re: VAX 4000/90A mouse and keyboard to a KVM switch?4 Re: VAX 4000/90A mouse and keyboard to a KVM switch?# Re: VFC Print file carriage control  VMS 7.3-2 with 48 MB memory? Re: VMS Torrents Re: VMS Torrents Re: VMS Torrents Re: VMS Torrents Re: VMS Torrents Re: VMS Torrents Re: VMS Torrents Re: VMS Torrents Re: VMS Torrents Re: VMS Torrents Re: VMS Torrents Re: VMS Torrents Re: VMS Torrents Re: VMS Torrents Re: VMS Torrents Re: VMS Torrents Re: VMS Torrents Re: VMS Torrents Re: VMS Torrents Re: VMS Torrents Re: VMS Torrents vmstar, ods5, and dates  We need your DS10 systems D which firmware update do I need for a DEC 3000 (Turbochannel ALPHA)?H Re: which firmware update do I need for a DEC 3000 (Turbochannel ALPHA)?H Re: which firmware update do I need for a DEC 3000 (Turbochannel ALPHA)?H Re: which firmware update do I need for a DEC 3000 (Turbochannel ALPHA)? Why going to a VMS BootCamp?  Re: Why going to a VMS BootCamp?  Re: Why going to a VMS BootCamp?  Re: Why going to a VMS BootCamp?  Re: Why going to a VMS BootCamp?) X-windows: changing cursor from and AST ? - Re: X-windows: changing cursor from and AST ? - Re: X-windows: changing cursor from and AST ? - Re: X-windows: changing cursor from and AST ? - Re: X-windows: changing cursor from and AST ?  Zero IOSB status Re: Zero IOSB status Re: Zero IOSB status Re: Zero IOSB status Re: Zero IOSB status Re: Zero IOSB status Re: Zero IOSB status Re: Zero IOSB status Re: Zero IOSB status Re: Zero IOSB status Re: Zero IOSB status Re: Zero IOSB status5 Re: [Java JNI] More questions and a (clumsy) solution 5 Re: [Java JNI] More questions and a (clumsy) solution 3 [OT] Noters' Party during the VMS BootCamp to come? ! [TCPIP] remote login observations   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 13:53:19 -0800 , From: Ken Fairfield <my.full.name@intel.com> Subject: Re: /include/nocopy+ Message-ID: <d29ucg$cno$1@news01.intel.com>   
 AEF wrote: > Ken Fairfield wrote: [...]  >>D >>    So to avoid the problem in your last paragraph, you need a wayB >>to supply both (all?) potential shadow set members, but use only) >>one at a time when you issue the mount.  > ? > Why not just use /NOASSIST with all members lised in /shadow?   @     As I said in another post, I just don't have the experience.< If it works as you indicate, then that's as good (or better)> than /Include.  Before I put that into production, I'd want toB test various scenarios where the disk didn't exist, wasn't online,@ etc., to confirm /NOASSIST was sufficient, but I'm happy to take your word for it...   G >>    What we did (when was at SLAC) was to have an internal subroutine E >>in the disk mount procedure.  The subroutine was passed the list of C >>all potential shadow set members, but it looped through the list, C >>checking each individually to see if it existed and was available D >>before trying the mount.  If either check failed, it would try theE >>next member in the list.  Of course, the /Include would pick up all  >>valid available members.   >  > Then why the subroutine?  C      I'm not sure what your "Then why" refers to.  I'm stating what C we *did* do at SLAC.  If you're saying, "Since /NOASSIST takes care B of unavailable disks (for any of a variety of reasons), _then why_A go to the trouble of a subroutine and /INCLUDE, etc.", then sure, < if /NOASSIST takes care of the issues, the subroutine can be eliminated.     E >>    NOW COMES THE PROBLEM: B boots and mounts DSA0.  If it _allows_ > >>its local member to be copied into DSA0, the more up-to-dateC >>version will be overwritten.  It will have mounted an out-of-date @ >>DSA0 (as did A), but the up-to-date data on B's member will be? >>preserved until the system manager can decide how to procede.  > + > But isn't /NOCOPY enough to prevent this?   
     Probably.    > Why use /INCLUDE?   >     Because of the context: /NOinclude is the default, and if,A as we did, you specify a single member to the /Shadow= qualifier, / you need /INCLUDE to pick up all valid members.    [...] D >                                        ... And it seems to me thatF > /INCLUDE only takes effect for the creation of the shadow set, i.e.,G > when a MOUNT command is issued for said shadow set but the shadow set I > isn't mounted on any system yet (not the "first creation" of the shadow  > set).   *     Agreed, first mount in a cluster.  So?          -Ken  --  6 I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me...  
 Ken Fairfield ! D1C Automation VMS System Support " who:   kenneth dot h dot fairfield where: intel dot com   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 17:16:03 -0800 , From: Ken Fairfield <my.full.name@intel.com> Subject: Re: /include/nocopy+ Message-ID: <d2aa8j$j5f$1@news01.intel.com>    norm.raphael@metso.com wrote:  [...] B > ISTM that a point is being obscured (Of course, I may just be as& > confused as others admit to being.). > F > If you get the scenario described earlier where one node leaves, andJ > writing continues to a surviving shadowset member, then the node hostingG > the surviving shadowset member leaves, and the node that left earlier J > comes back first, then the volume on the 1st node is written to and data< > the went to the volume on the 2nd node is lost, and eitherL > a)  without /NOCOPY the data disk on the 2nd node lost during the copy, orI > b)  with /NOCOPY the data disk on the 2nd node is not lost, but is also I >     not present on the new single-volume shadowset member and it is far M >     from apparent what the lost data is or where it is or how to recover it E >     or if any damage has been done due to it not being available in  >     context. > J > So the point about knowing it what order what happened and what to do inJ > each case of things happening is a particular order to recover correctly( > is more important than the qualifiers.  ?      I wouldn't say more important.  I would say the /NOCOPY is ? essential (except in cases where the data on the disk is mostly ? stable, like a system disk with the SYSUAF and related, as well ; as all the other "voltile" files, moved to a separate disk.   C      The key is that you don't want a shadow copy initiated without ? human intervention.  The human may do the wrong thing. :-(  But D having gone through your boot-up procedures and s/he finds that someB shadow set is missing one or more of its members, that should giveA the human pause and allow the possibility to investigate and take ? appropriate action before unrecoverable data loss has occurred. B Without the /NOCOPY, the data loss will occur before the human has a chance to make a mistake...   	      -Ken  --  6 I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me...  
 Ken Fairfield ! D1C Automation VMS System Support " who:   kenneth dot h dot fairfield where: intel dot com   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 20:39:21 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  Subject: Re: /include/nocopyB Message-ID: <1112060332.85199db0839e30d90ffa0e0c5e0fdfa0@teranews>   Ken Fairfield wrote:D > on a bunch of external considerations, one needs to decide whether@ > that copy should be started automatically on system reboot, or= > require a system manager to intervene and start the copy...     H This may not be sufficient. Cosnider the case where the valid member  ofH disk2, but you remount with disk1 only. DSA0 will consist of disk1 whcihF will be stamped with "current time" and thus be more valid than disk2.F So when you try to bring in disk2, no matter what you do, it will be a target of copy.   G You'd have to dismount DSA0 and then remount it with disk2 only, making R disk2 the most recent and then bring in the other members as target of opetations.    G What would be needed is a utility to "touch" a specific disk to mark it E as valid shadowset member, and then use a standard mount command that  includes all that is available.   F You could then have logic that prompts or decides which physical driveF is to be used as source, afollowed by a standard mount command without convoluted logic.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 17:40:49 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>  Subject: Re: /include/nocopy( Message-ID: <opsodlmbrnzgicya@hyrrokkin>  . On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 20:39:21 -0500, JF Mezei  % <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:    > Ken Fairfield wrote:E >> on a bunch of external considerations, one needs to decide whether A >> that copy should be started automatically on system reboot, or > >> require a system manager to intervene and start the copy... >  > J > This may not be sufficient. Cosnider the case where the valid member  ofJ > disk2, but you remount with disk1 only. DSA0 will consist of disk1 whcihH > will be stamped with "current time" and thus be more valid than disk2.H > So when you try to bring in disk2, no matter what you do, it will be a > target of copy.  > I > You'd have to dismount DSA0 and then remount it with disk2 only, making J > disk2 the most recent and then bring in the other members as target of  
 > opetations.  >  > I > What would be needed is a utility to "touch" a specific disk to mark it G > as valid shadowset member, and then use a standard mount command that ! > includes all that is available.  > H > You could then have logic that prompts or decides which physical driveH > is to be used as source, afollowed by a standard mount command without > convoluted logic. K Why not put a time stamp in the bit map, then when mounting the most recent  becomes the master   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 20:52:33 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  Subject: Re: /include/nocopyB Message-ID: <1112061124.53f585a8409ded671fbe956f5facb6ed@teranews>   Ken Fairfield wrote:F > having gone through your boot-up procedures and s/he finds that someD > shadow set is missing one or more of its members, that should giveC > the human pause and allow the possibility to investigate and take A > appropriate action before unrecoverable data loss has occurred.   2 But this has "cluster partioning" type of problem.  F You boot with disk1 making up DSA0. By the time you realise that disk2E should have been mounted as the valid member of DSA0:  disk1 may have ) already begun to record transactions etc.   D The decision on what drive is valid must be made before you boot theE machine. You can use some of the user parameters in sysgen/sysboot to E set a flag that systartup_VMS uses to go into a mode where it prompts 6 you to select the right drive to be mounted as source.   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Mar 2005 18:59:03 -0800$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: /include/nocopyB Message-ID: <1112065143.308753.74960@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>   JF Mezei wrote:  > Ken Fairfield wrote:C > > having gone through your boot-up procedures and s/he finds that  someF > > shadow set is missing one or more of its members, that should giveE > > the human pause and allow the possibility to investigate and take C > > appropriate action before unrecoverable data loss has occurred.  > 4 > But this has "cluster partioning" type of problem. > B > You boot with disk1 making up DSA0. By the time you realise that disk2 G > should have been mounted as the valid member of DSA0:  disk1 may have + > already begun to record transactions etc.  > F > The decision on what drive is valid must be made before you boot theG > machine. You can use some of the user parameters in sysgen/sysboot to G > set a flag that systartup_VMS uses to go into a mode where it prompts 8 > you to select the right drive to be mounted as source.  G Well, then it seems to me that you have to decide between two competing C interests: 1.) Get back up ASAP, or 2.) don't start updating a less F up-to-date disk, even if that means not being able to mount. OK, maybeG a third: Handcuff yourself to your machine's console so as to always be & there to quickly put things right! :-)  F The qualifier /NOCOPY can be used to prevent the risk of overwriting aB more up-to-date disk, of course, as we all seem to agree, I think.   JMHO   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 22:14:39 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  Subject: Re: /include/nocopyB Message-ID: <1112066084.d9385f18ff5ec281f67256e919c4938e@teranews>  
 AEF wrote:# > interests: 1.) Get back up ASAP,    G If your data is so important that it needs shadowing, it is likely that H you don't want to do that. If your data is static web pages and you haveB shadowing as a convenience to be able to take one disk offline for$ backups etc, that this is different.  I > a third: Handcuff yourself to your machine's console so as to always be ( > there to quickly put things right! :-)  C It is called having proper procedures written so that operators can H follow them and know which disk should be used as source and hence tweak- the booting procedure to use that good drive.   C There are situations though where automatically remounting whatever O drives would be OK, but they don't cover all possible situations in a DR setup.    ------------------------------    Date: 28 Mar 2005 20:06:21 -0800$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: /include/nocopyC Message-ID: <1112069181.126163.118810@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    JF Mezei wrote:  > AEF wrote:$ > > interests: 1.) Get back up ASAP, > D > If your data is so important that it needs shadowing, it is likely thatE > you don't want to do that. If your data is static web pages and you  haveD > shadowing as a convenience to be able to take one disk offline for& > backups etc, that this is different.    B I disagree. Shadowing is primarily for data availability, at leastD that's what I recently read in the vol shad doc. While it does offerF some protection against data loss, it is not a substitute for backups.    A > > a third: Handcuff yourself to your machine's console so as to 	 always be * > > there to quickly put things right! :-) > E > It is called having proper procedures written so that operators can D > follow them and know which disk should be used as source and hence tweak / > the booting procedure to use that good drive.     F Where are these operators that can follow instructions when we here inC this discussion are still arguing about what said procedures should > even be? Where are these operators that would follow elaborateF instructions carefully enough to be worth it? OK, some opers are good.G I, for one, don't have the luxury of having any opers. And two jobs ago G I had one that wouldn't always listen to instructions. But then I don't E have this 'members on different clusters' problem as I don't have any 	 clusters.     E > There are situations though where automatically remounting whatever G > drives would be OK, but they don't cover all possible situations in a 	 DR setup.     D Agreed. But there are often competing interests. For example, do youD throttle the merge more to ease the impact, or speed it up to get it' over with? You can't have it both ways.   F If someone has a clever way to take care of both interests I mentionedF about ASAP vs. never mounting the less-current disk by itself, I'm allC ears. I'm not saying it can't be done, but except for the fact that E this 'A fails, B fails, A comes back up, B comes back up' scenario is G not very likely (well, at least I hope it's not), it's almost beginning 4 to look as if shadowing isn't worth the trouble! ;-)  B Well, again, it's the competing interests. If you can't tolerate A< getting updated when B is the more up-to-date member, but isF unavailable due to its node being down, you have to sacrifice the backF up ASAP. I think. If there is a way to take care of both concerns, I'd5 like to see it. I think I repeated myself! Sorry. :-/    ------------------------------    Date: 28 Mar 2005 21:43:23 -0800$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: /include/nocopyB Message-ID: <1112075003.363920.86450@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>  
 AEF wrote: > JF Mezei wrote:  > > AEF wrote: [...] E > Where are these operators that can follow instructions when we here  inE > this discussion are still arguing about what said procedures should @ > even be? Where are these operators that would follow elaborateB > instructions carefully enough to be worth it? OK, some opers are good. E > I, for one, don't have the luxury of having any opers. And two jobs  ago C > I had one that wouldn't always listen to instructions. But then I  don't G > have this 'members on different clusters' problem as I don't have any  > clusters.     @ Uh, make that 'members on different nodes in a cluster' problem. [...]    ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 07:33:09 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: /include/nocopy$ Message-ID: <d2b0bl$go0$1@online.de>  9 In article <d29ucg$cno$1@news01.intel.com>, Ken Fairfield ! <my.full.name@intel.com> writes:     > > Why use /INCLUDE?  > @ >     Because of the context: /NOinclude is the default, and if,C > as we did, you specify a single member to the /Shadow= qualifier, 1 > you need /INCLUDE to pick up all valid members.   G All seem to agree now that /NOCOPY was the essential bit of your stuff  B at SLAC.  Is there any reason to use /INCLUDE other than to avoid ' listing all the members in the command?    ------------------------------    Date: 29 Mar 2005 14:03:13 -0800$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: /include/nocopyB Message-ID: <1112133793.405001.61270@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>  / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: ; > In article <d29ucg$cno$1@news01.intel.com>, Ken Fairfield " > <my.full.name@intel.com> writes: >  > > > Why use /INCLUDE?  > > B > >     Because of the context: /NOinclude is the default, and if,E > > as we did, you specify a single member to the /Shadow= qualifier, 3 > > you need /INCLUDE to pick up all valid members.  > B > All seem to agree now that /NOCOPY was the essential bit of your stuff C > at SLAC.  Is there any reason to use /INCLUDE other than to avoid ) > listing all the members in the command?   ? I think /include is useful for situations like this: You have a @ 3-member shadow set. You shut your app, dissolve the shadow set,D remount it with one less member, and do a tape backup of the missing? member. Later you add the 3rd member back to the shadow set. By E specifying the 1st disk with /include in your startup, if you need to E boot, you'll return to the same config of disks you had when you shut C down. This is very much like how a system disk shadow set works. In + both cases you must pick the "master" disk.   D I noticed there is a "new" qualifier that may address the problem of4 the node with the less current disk coming up first:F /policy=require_members. With this qualifier, no disk is mounted until all needed disks are available.   E DEC/Compaq/HP have added a lot of new qualfiers for shadowing to suit  different needs.   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Mar 2005 14:15:44 -0800$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: /include/nocopyB Message-ID: <1112134544.017890.14300@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   Ken Fairfield wrote: > AEF wrote: > > Ken Fairfield wrote: > >  > >>Ken Fairfield wrote: > >>? > >>I messed up the following paragraph a bit.  It should read:  > >> > >>G > >>>   NOW COMES THE PROBLEM: B boots and mounts DSA0.  If it _allows_ A > >>>its local member to be copied into DSA0, the more up-to-date ! > >>>version will be overwritten.  > >>E > >>                                  However, by using /NoCopy along B > >>with specifying only A's member in the MOUNT command (assuming > >>A comes before B),D > >>                     it will (still) have mounted an out-of-date > >>C > >>>DSA0 (as did A), but the up-to-date data on B's member will be B > >>>preserved until the system manager can decide how to procede. > > @ > > Do you mean each node will have its own DSA0? If A's DSA0 is mounted C > > clusterwide, doesn't that preclude B from mounting its own DSA0 E > > clusterwide, in which case you have only one disk as a memeber of  only
 > > one DSA0?  > A >      No, of course not.  I may not have Phillip's configuration C > exactly right, but I thinking about, and I thought he was talking B > about, clusters where there shadows to systems' locally attachedC > disks.  That is, DSA0=$1$DKA100,$1$DKB100 with $1$DKA100 attached C > to node A and $1$DKB100 attached to node B.  In this case, except B > for a clean cluster shutdown and reboot, one or the other memberA > will always need to be copied back into DSA0.  Again, depending D > on a bunch of external considerations, one needs to decide whether@ > that copy should be started automatically on system reboot, or= > require a system manager to intervene and start the copy...     B Check out the new qualifier /policy=require_members in the manual!     [...]  > F >      Well, I'd argue with the details  of "re-created with all threeE > disks".  If one member was dismounted prior to reboot, then it will D > get added to the shadow set as a *copy target*, not a full-fledgedE > member.  Once you've dismounted a member, as opposed to dismounting A > the "full" shadow set, it can only become a member again with a E > COPY, either the full copy we're all used, or a mini-copy if you're C > running a recent enough version of VMS, if you dismounted it with E > the correct incantation, and if at least one node that has a bitmap ( > remains up between dismount and mount.    0 Well, yes, a copy operation could be needed. So?   > G >                                                                    My G > > understanding is that if you had /INCLUDE instead of /NOASSIST then B > > upon rebooting you would only have two disks in the re-created shadowG > > set -- the two that were still in the shadow set after you manually D > > removed one member -- regardless of which of the three disks are+ > > specified in the MOUNT/INCLUDE command.  > @ >       Assume as in your example, you have three members, namedB > DKA100, DKA200 and DKA300, and assume you dismount DKA300 beforeB > system shutdown.  On reboot, if you mount DSA0 with /Include and? > /Shadow=DKA100 or /Shadow=DKA200, then both DKA100 and DKA200 @ > get mounted into DSA0, but DKA300 does not.  If you mount DSA0D > with /Include /Shadow=DKA300, _only_ DKA300 is mounted as a member? > of DSA0.  Neither DKA100 nor DKA200 are mounted because their C > shadow generation number (or whatever the precise term is) is not  > the same as that on DKA300.     G I just tried that (VMS 6.2) without the reboot step and it worked fine. A dka300 was a copy target, not source. Maybe it's different with a G reboot. (Well, the shadow set had only two members: dka200 and dka300.)     C >                                            I'll have to test this  when I= > > get a chance, but I cannot test what happens on clusters.e >i? >       This is shadowing behaviour, independent of clustering.i    F I meant I'd test the shadowing behavior that doesn't involve clusters,B but when it comes to mounting from different nodes in a cluster, I$ can't do that with my current setup.   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Mar 2005 15:03:25 -0800$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: /include/nocopyB Message-ID: <1112133899.579004.97120@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   norm.raphael@metso.com wrote: A > "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> wrote on 03/28/2005 12:48:17 AM:m >e > > Ken Fairfield wrote: > > > Ken Fairfield wrote: > > >tA > > > I messed up the following paragraph a bit.  It should read:p > > >DA > > > >    NOW COMES THE PROBLEM: B boots and mounts DSA0.  If it  _allows_D > > > > its local member to be copied into DSA0, the more up-to-date$ > > > > version will be overwritten.G > > >                                   However, by using /NoCopy alongeD > > > with specifying only A's member in the MOUNT command (assuming > > > A comes before B),F > > >                      it will (still) have mounted an out-of-dateF > > > > DSA0 (as did A), but the up-to-date data on B's member will beE > > > > preserved until the system manager can decide how to procede.f > >r > >a@ > > Do you mean each node will have its own DSA0? If A's DSA0 is mountedsC > > clusterwide, doesn't that preclude B from mounting its own DSA0cE > > clusterwide, in which case you have only one disk as a memeber ofl only
 > > one DSA0?  > >lC > > I think there is a guideline that shadow unit numbers should bem uniqueE > > clusterwide, and that helps keep you out of trouble. I'll have to  check C > > the manual, but it's getting late and I've spent enough time onn this > > already! > >o > >dA > > >     As to some other comments, yes, the /NoCopy is the mostd? > > > important item here.  Since /NoInclude is the default, inRA > > > order to get all members mounted while specifying only one,o > > > you need the /Include. > > >VG > > >     AEF implies that /NoAssist with all members specified has thehF > > > same effect as specifying single member with /Include.  That mayA > > > well be the case, but I can't couch for it since I've nevers > > > tested it. > >  > >FF > > No, that is not what I meant. Assume a single standalone node with > > = > > $ MOUNT/SYS DSA0 /SHAD=(DKA100, DKA200, DKA300) /NOASSIST  volume-label > >oE > > in the startup. Start the system. You get a shadow set with threeR diskscF > > (assume its last state prior to the previous shutdown was one withG > > three disks as members). Remove one disk and reboot the system. Yous? > > should get a re-created shadow set with all three disks. My G > > understanding is that if you had /INCLUDE instead of /NOASSIST thenfB > > upon rebooting you would only have two disks in the re-created shadowG > > set -- the two that were still in the shadow set after you manuallypD > > removed one member -- regardless of which of the three disks areG > > specified in the MOUNT/INCLUDE command. I'll have to test this whenO In= > > get a chance, but I cannot test what happens on clusters.( > > E > > I mentioned /NOASSIST because Phillip was worried about the MOUNTMC > > command failing if not all disks specified in the MOUNT commandP were7 > > present. But that is exactly what /NOASSIST is for!r > >d2 > > So in summary, my understanding is as follows: > >e5 > > In your startup command procedure MOUNT commands:n > >d? > > If you don't want to risk newer data being overwritten, adde /NOCOPY. > >n >cB > ISTM that a point is being obscured (Of course, I may just be as& > confused as others admit to being.). >eF > If you get the scenario described earlier where one node leaves, andB > writing continues to a surviving shadowset member, then the node hostinguG > the surviving shadowset member leaves, and the node that left earliereE > comes back first, then the volume on the 1st node is written to andu data< > the went to the volume on the 2nd node is lost, and eitherC > a)  without /NOCOPY the data disk on the 2nd node lost during thes copy, orD > b)  with /NOCOPY the data disk on the 2nd node is not lost, but is alsoE >     not present on the new single-volume shadowset member and it isa farrB >     from apparent what the lost data is or where it is or how to
 recover itE >     or if any damage has been done due to it not being available ind
 > context. >SG > So the point about knowing it what order what happened and what to doe in@ > each case of things happening is a particular order to recover	 correctlyn( > is more important than the qualifiers.  4 Check out the new qualifier /policy=require_members. [...]n   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Mar 2005 15:42:26 -0800 From: nipunpatel@gmail.com& Subject: 2node to 3 node cluster setupC Message-ID: <1112226146.226184.302850@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>o  
 Hello all,) I am new to OpenVMS and below is my queryo  A I have a DS25 and XP1000(satellite node)  clustered with a common F environment, no quorum disk and running openVMS v7.3-1. I am trying to/ add a new node (EV68 DS25) as a satellite node. . They are on Ethernet lan, running Decnet Plus.  G I have started the procedure of Cluster_config (on clustered node DS25)i( and have bunch of options and questions.  G My basic objective to add an Alpha node to the clustered (common systeme disk) environmentoD Now I went to the clustered node and ran cluster_config (with Lancp) and choose (1) Add node   A Then it asked is this node to be a clustered node with SCSI/FIBREeG CHANNEL ? Yes (I have lan so in the cluster example they mentioned yes)t  < What is the node's SCS node name?: PLUTO (new terminal EV68)  G What is the node's full decnet name?: (Can I give any name here for e.g3 [.DISK3]  0 what is the Mop name [PLUTO]? "accepted default"  ) Does PLUTO need to be registered [N]? YESr  % (As I had not registered this before)s Ran through some operationsb  # What is the Cluster Alias fullname?rE I still have to read more about what Cluster Alias mean? hence I have * stopped here. and gave Ctrl Y and aborted.  E I would specifically like to know more about the above Alias fullnamerB (an example related to my case) and whether MOP name is fine. as I5 could not get a clear understanding from the manuals.a    : If you are wondering about the status of new terminal EV68F Then I just recently started the FIS procedure for V 7.3-2 and startedA the system. I haven't done anything to it. I just want it to be arC satellite node so I don't think this operating system or the system E disk on EV68 is needed. In a  nutshell I just want to have one systems disk as before.e  1 Any suggestions you can give will be very helpfult Thanks a lot Nipuno   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 22:37:08 +0200a, From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems.dotweg@zonnet.nl>* Subject: Re: 2node to 3 node cluster setup, Message-ID: <3b35ibF6flsoeU1@individual.net>  ) <nipunpatel@gmail.com> schreef in bericht = news:1112226146.226184.302850@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...n > Hello all,+ > I am new to OpenVMS and below is my querya >tC > I have a DS25 and XP1000(satellite node)  clustered with a commonwH > environment, no quorum disk and running openVMS v7.3-1. I am trying to1 > add a new node (EV68 DS25) as a satellite node.i0 > They are on Ethernet lan, running Decnet Plus. >eF From this I assume that you want to use ethernet as the (only) cluster interconnectA and that you want DECnet as the carrier for the cluster protocol.e  I > I have started the procedure of Cluster_config (on clustered node DS25)v* > and have bunch of options and questions. >eI > My basic objective to add an Alpha node to the clustered (common systemc > disk) environmentVF > Now I went to the clustered node and ran cluster_config (with Lancp) > and choose (1) Add noden   OK   > C > Then it asked is this node to be a clustered node with SCSI/FIBREiI > CHANNEL ? Yes (I have lan so in the cluster example they mentioned yes)C > I Err, haven't checked the manual but guess this is not correct. If you use  ethernet$ only then the proper answer is "NO".  > > What is the node's SCS node name?: PLUTO (new terminal EV68) >eI > What is the node's full decnet name?: (Can I give any name here for e.gn
 > [.DISK3]  G The SCS node name must be identical to the DECnet (phase IV) node name.l4 So if the new node is PLUTO, DECnet address 1.3 then& SCSNODE : PLUTO (and not local:.pluto)2 SCSSYSTEMID : 1027  (computed as area*1024 + node)   >h2 > what is the Mop name [PLUTO]? "accepted default" >rC MOP is used by the client as the initial request to download the OSh components.r  + > Does PLUTO need to be registered [N]? YES  >c' > (As I had not registered this before)  > Ran through some operationso > % > What is the Cluster Alias fullname?OG > I still have to read more about what Cluster Alias mean? hence I havei, > stopped here. and gave Ctrl Y and aborted. >9  C The cluster alias name is the DECnet name (and an address) assignedo collectively to the cluster.L If you use STARS as cluster name then SET HOST STARS will connect you to one of the three nodes in your cluster.  G > I would specifically like to know more about the above Alias fullnameoD > (an example related to my case) and whether MOP name is fine. as I7 > could not get a clear understanding from the manuals.  >  >0< > If you are wondering about the status of new terminal EV68H > Then I just recently started the FIS procedure for V 7.3-2 and startedC > the system. I haven't done anything to it. I just want it to be aeE > satellite node so I don't think this operating system or the systemMG > disk on EV68 is needed. In a  nutshell I just want to have one system  > disk as before.o >n3 > Any suggestions you can give will be very helpfuln > Thanks a lot > Nipun  >    ------------------------------    Date: 29 Mar 2005 15:19:09 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)nG Subject: Re: A blast from the past - PDP history, and a bit of TECO toon3 Message-ID: <hRG9tYJ6havL@eisner.encompasserve.org>u  U In article <3ao9qbF6buhs5U1@individual.net>, Paul Sture <paul.sture@decus.ch> writes: # > http://tenex.opost.com/hbook.html  > A > Also: TECO available on Windows, and maybe shortly on Mac OS X.? >  > http://almy.us/teco.html  C    I found the Linux distribution ported to Mac OS X (10.2.1) quite?;    readily doing the build under Project and sticking a fewoA    "|| defined(__APPLE__)" in zport.h .  I think I spent about 15o    minutes.d  <    Which allows one to "teco" in the "Terminal" application.   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Mar 2005 04:09:50 -0800# From: "Galen" <gltackett@gmail.com>nG Subject: Re: A blast from the past - PDP history, and a bit of TECO toosB Message-ID: <1112184590.556289.25340@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>  ' Hurrah! I can't wait to run VTEDIT  :-)   E But first I'd need a decent VT-class terminal emulator. The ones I'veoG tried flunk vttest miserably--that includes at least "Terminal," aterm,M and MacTelnet.   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Mar 2005 07:56:14 -0800# From: "Galen" <gltackett@gmail.com>hG Subject: Re: A blast from the past - PDP history, and a bit of TECO too-B Message-ID: <1112198174.771814.73560@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>   Elliott Roper wrote:  6 > I'm using the Apple X11 version, rather than Fink's.A > Xterm's VT220 keyboard mapping works better out of the box thanl
 > terminal's.r   Thanks for the tip, Elliott.  D I have Apple's Xterm on my Mac too but for some reason I didn't likeD the way it worked. That was before I was trying to run a simh Vax onE the Mac. Maybe VMS will like it better than whatever other software IeC tried it with earlier. (I do remember that I like aterm's scrollbaro better.)  E > I have not yet tried to port the Linux version of teco to my Mac. It< > would be *very* impressed if it ran VTEDIT out of the box.  @ Yeah, me too. It's hard to imagine someone doing such a thoroughC implementation of TECO as to handle all the screen management bits.b   -- h Galen    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 18:55:55 -0000a/ From: Thomas Dickey <dickey@saltmine.radix.net>rG Subject: Re: A blast from the past - PDP history, and a bit of TECO toos0 Message-ID: <114lthrstjuct2e@corp.supernews.com>  ' Elliott Roper <nospam@yrl.co.uk> wrote:e  F > Mac's Xterm passes the teco test almost perfectly (when SSH'd into aF > nearby Alpha) I sometimes see left-behind block cursor blobs, but itH > does seeall mode rather nicely (-1,3:w) with Monaco. VTEDIT works well > too.$ > It is fine on split screen (3,7:w)6 > I'm using the Apple X11 version, rather than Fink's.  F What's the difference between the two?  (I had an impression that both were based on XFree86).)   --   Thomas E. Dickey http://invisible-island.netC ftp://invisible-island.net   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 18:56:35 -0000 / From: Thomas Dickey <dickey@saltmine.radix.net> G Subject: Re: A blast from the past - PDP history, and a bit of TECO toor0 Message-ID: <114ltj359813e57@corp.supernews.com>  * c0ldbyte <c0ldbyte@comp.unix.admin> wrote:$ > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1  3 > On 2005-03-30, Galen <gltackett@gmail.com> wrote:o* >> Hurrah! I can't wait to run VTEDIT  :-) >>H >> But first I'd need a decent VT-class terminal emulator. The ones I'veJ >> tried flunk vttest miserably--that includes at least "Terminal," aterm, >> and MacTelnet.S >>  1 > How about RxVT ? featuring vt100 102 220 etc...d   short: it doesn't.   --   Thomas E. Dickey http://invisible-island.netm ftp://invisible-island.net   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 20:52:43 +0100m& From: Elliott Roper <nospam@yrl.co.uk>G Subject: Re: A blast from the past - PDP history, and a bit of TECO toon1 Message-ID: <300320052052435403%nospam@yrl.co.uk>n  > In article <114lthrstjuct2e@corp.supernews.com>, Thomas Dickey" <dickey@saltmine.radix.net> wrote:  ) > Elliott Roper <nospam@yrl.co.uk> wrote:p > H > > Mac's Xterm passes the teco test almost perfectly (when SSH'd into aH > > nearby Alpha) I sometimes see left-behind block cursor blobs, but itJ > > does seeall mode rather nicely (-1,3:w) with Monaco. VTEDIT works well > > too.& > > It is fine on split screen (3,7:w)8 > > I'm using the Apple X11 version, rather than Fink's. > H > What's the difference between the two?  (I had an impression that both > were based on XFree86).   They are both originally XFree86@ Apple's uses quartz-wm, Fink's does not. Apple's may not support, threads. It's all unix vowel-free magic. ;-)   I took the coward's route.   -- f1 To de-mung my e-mail address:- fsnospam$elliott$$tC PGP Fingerprint: 1A96 3CF7 637F 896B C810  E199 7E5C A9E4 8E59 E248n   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Mar 2005 15:50:18 -0800 From: jordan@ccs4vms.com) Subject: Re: AlphaStation 200 power usageoC Message-ID: <1112053818.268757.184630@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>w  , OK... VAXstation 3100-30, 32MB RAM, 2 x RZ25    Maximum draw (powerup) 157 watts5 Steady State draw (booted, logged in, idle)  85 watts   ' VR299 monitor, console screen  90 wattsg1 VR299 monitor, DECwindows login screen  105 wattsa( VR299 monitor, peak (powerup)  160 watts  C Power usage on the VS seems very stable, and does not vary based on F computational load; in fact running the DECwindows ICO example reducedF draw by a couple of watts.  Doing disk intensive operations adds about 4 watts per busy drive.d   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 01:35:42 -0500r' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>l) Subject: Re: AlphaStation 200 power usage 0 Message-ID: <114ht73be2d9ke7@corp.supernews.com>   jordan@ccs4vms.com wrote:nH > Finally had time to start moving my kill-a-watt meter around.  This is+ > just an FYI in case anyone is interested.e > ; > AS200 4/233 (upgraded from a 4/166 using a Cabriolet CPU)i > DE500-BA ethernetn > ZLXp-E2 videob > IBM 9GB 7200RPM SCSI disk  > 384MB RAM  > H > The attached Nokia 447W monitor draws 80 to 88 watts depending on whatI > is being displayed; that seems rather hefty for a 17" monitor but it is 
 > an old one.- > " > Maximum draw (powerup) 139 watts' > Steady state draw, at idle  116 watts   G It that 116 watts including the 80 watts for the monitor?  If so, then i6 less than 40 watts running as a server is pretty good.    Got any VAXstation 4000 systems?  I > Compare that to the AS600 5/333 running my website using 245/225 watts.eD >  I'm considering moving to the AS200 to save some power as long asG > Apache/PHP performance is adequate on the slower box (no MySQL in use 
 > though). > F > Coming soon if I get the time: ratings for a VS3100-30, and maybe anG > MV3100-30 and a DS10 if I can sneak in a reboot to plug in the meter.t> > Fun stuff.  Takes my mind off the peecee crap for a while :) >  > Rich >    ------------------------------    Date: 29 Mar 2005 09:41:51 -0800 From: jordan@ccs4vms.com) Subject: Re: AlphaStation 200 power usage C Message-ID: <1112118111.419639.287890@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   F Nope.  116 watts is the AS200 system cabinet with internal drive.  TheD monitor is an additional 80 watts.  That and the VR299 (and probablyE the VRC21 at home when I get the chance to measure its usage) are all"C making me think harder about flat panel replacements, even though I 8 never leave monitors on when the systems are not in use.  D No VS4000's at all, sorry.   There is an MV3100-80 in storage that IF might pull out to test, but not for a few days.  I'm getting a runningC usage on my desktop VS3100-30 for 48 hours just to see how much itse  costing the company to run 24x7!    E BTW, hitting the degauss button on the VR299 causes usage to spike tog# over 250 watts for about 3 seconds.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 20:52:27 -0600o- From: Hunter Goatley <goathunter@goatley.com>u@ Subject: ANN: PWAIT$SDA and MBU freeware updates from Ian Miller* Message-ID: <424A146B.4090506@goatley.com>  = Thanks to Ian Miller, updates are now available for PWAIT_SDAs and MBU.    From the README:s  @ PWAIT$SDA is a SDA extension (using the API first documented for@ VMS V7.2) which displays information about a process waiting and? what it is waiting for.  It is intended to help investigate whyeA a process appears hung.  This release is V0.D and include variousw bug fixes and enhancements.a  ? MBU is a VMS mailbox utility.  This release is V1.5 and offers:i  7    o More detail is displayed by SHOW MAILBOX and VIEW.n5    o Implemented /TIMEOUT and /READERCHECK for WRITE.s4    o Implemented /TIMEOUT and /WRITERCHECK for READ.(    o Implemented SET MAILBOX/PROTECTION.6    o Fixed some bugs. Improved the help file a little.   http://www.process.com/openvms/a  9 ftp://ftp.process.com/vms-freeware/fileserv/pwait_sda.zipi> http://vms.process.com/ftp/vms-freeware/fileserv/pwait_sda.zip  5 ftp://ftp.tmk.com/vms-freeware/fileserv/pwait_sda.zip : http://www.tmk.com/ftp/vms-freeware/fileserv/pwait_sda.zip  3 ftp://ftp.process.com/vms-freeware/fileserv/mbu.zip-8 http://vms.process.com/ftp/vms-freeware/fileserv/mbu.zip  / ftp://ftp.tmk.com/vms-freeware/fileserv/mbu.zipj4 http://www.tmk.com/ftp/vms-freeware/fileserv/mbu.zip   And on the other mirrors soon.     Hunter ------9 Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/ ; <goathunter@GOATLEY.COM>     http://www.goatley.com/hunter/i   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 14:45:08 +0100o0 From: Chris Sharman <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam>  Subject: apache shutdown failure4 Message-ID: <d2eah4$333$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>   $ @sys$startup:apache$shutdown9 Syntax error on line 5 of /apache$root/conf/mod_php.conf: 8 Can't locate API module structure `php4_module' in file K /apache$root/000000/modules/mod_php_apache-2_0.exe: function not implemente   6 Using Alpha VMS 7.3-1, Apache 2.0-1, php 4.3.2, mysql.) Anyone else seen this/know the solution ?s  + @sys$startup:apache$startup restart ! works    Chris    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 15:10:50 +0100c0 From: Chris Sharman <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam>$ Subject: Re: apache shutdown failure4 Message-ID: <d2ec1a$m1t$1$830fa17d@news.demon.co.uk>   Syltrem wrote:  I > "Chris Sharman" <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam> a crit dans le message dea0 > news:d2eah4$333$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk... >   >>$ @sys$startup:apache$shutdown; >>Syntax error on line 5 of /apache$root/conf/mod_php.conf:t9 >>Can't locate API module structure `php4_module' in file B >>/apache$root/000000/modules/mod_php_apache-2_0.exe: function not >  > Obvious questions are: > @ > What do you have on line 5 of apache$root:[conf]mod_php.conf ?   It's out of the box:# $ ty apache$root:[conf]mod_php.confk ## ##  Load PHP moduleu ## <IfModule prefork.c>5 LoadModule php4_module modules/mod_php_apache-2_0.exen </IfModule>  <IfModule !prefork.c> 5 LoadModule php4_module modules/mod_php_apache-1_3.exe  </IfModule>c  J > Do you have apache$root:[modules]mod_php_apache-2_0.exe on your system ?  I Yes. Although it's actually named in uppercase. I'm new to ODS5, and not hI that clear on the parsing/searching algorithm. It finds it ok in startup  > - I don't really understand why it's even looking at shutdown.   Chris    ------------------------------    Date: 30 Mar 2005 08:24:14 -0800 From: tim.beaudin@hp.com$ Subject: Re: apache shutdown failureC Message-ID: <1112199854.866479.170320@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Hi,:< Can you try doing the following command before the shutdown?  '     $ @apache$root:[000000]apache$setupu"     $ @SYS$STARTUP:APACHE$SHUTDOWN       Thanks.-     Tim-       Chris Sharman wrote: > Syltrem wrote: >4B > > "Chris Sharman" <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam> a =E9crit dans le
 message de2 > > news:d2eah4$333$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk... > >9" > >>$ @sys$startup:apache$shutdown= > >>Syntax error on line 5 of /apache$root/conf/mod_php.conf:a; > >>Can't locate API module structure `php4_module' in filetD > >>/apache$root/000000/modules/mod_php_apache-2_0.exe: function not > >c > > Obvious questions are: > > B > > What do you have on line 5 of apache$root:[conf]mod_php.conf ? >n > It's out of the box:% > $ ty apache$root:[conf]mod_php.conf  > ## > ##  Load PHP modulei > ## > <IfModule prefork.c>7 > LoadModule php4_module modules/mod_php_apache-2_0.exew
 > </IfModule>w > <IfModule !prefork.c>a7 > LoadModule php4_module modules/mod_php_apache-1_3.exea
 > </IfModule>  >hC > > Do you have apache$root:[modules]mod_php_apache-2_0.exe on yourr system ? > F > Yes. Although it's actually named in uppercase. I'm new to ODS5, and not-B > that clear on the parsing/searching algorithm. It finds it ok in startupn@ > - I don't really understand why it's even looking at shutdown. >=20 > Chris8   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 17:54:23 +0100n0 From: Chris Sharman <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam>$ Subject: Re: apache shutdown failure4 Message-ID: <d2eljv$a3j$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk>   tim.beaudin@hp.com wrote:e   > Hi, > > Can you try doing the following command before the shutdown? > ) >     $ @apache$root:[000000]apache$setupr$ >     $ @SYS$STARTUP:APACHE$SHUTDOWN   Now seems to work.C I perhaps should've mentioned I'd added the following to setup, to iH install everything (I'm running it on a low-memory machine). (@saf is a @ variation of select all files, from an ancient VMS Professional < article). Previously the 1st line was "$ if option.eqs....".   Many Thanks  Christ  H $ if "''option'".eqs."START" ! CCA amendment - install everything we use $ then $ insverb := install add4 $ daemon := "apache$common:[000000]apache$httpd.exe"= $ if f$file(daemon,"known") then $ insverb := install replaceh  $ 'insverb /ope/hea/sha 'daemon'3 $ @sys$manager:saf "''insverb'/ope/hea/sha 'file'" t& apache$common:[000000]apache$*_shr.exeE $ search/out=apachetmp.tmp 'configfile' loadmodule/key=(pos:1,siz:10)y+ $ @sys$manager:saf "''insverb'/ope/hea/sha oJ apache$common:[modules]'f$el(1,""/"",f$ed(f$el(0,""#"",file),""trim""))'"  "@apachetmp.tm`w $!H $ 'insverb /ope/hea/sha apache$common:[modules]mod_php_apache-2_0.exe ! - loadmodule is conditional & in different filen9 $ 'insverb /ope/hea/sha apache$common:[php.bin]phpshr.exeo6 $ search/out=apachetmp.tmp apache$common:[php]php.ini  extension=/key=(pos:1,siz:10) + $ @sys$manager:saf "''insverb'/ope/hea/sha  Q apache$common:[php.extensions]'f$el(1,""="",f$ed(f$el(0,"";"",file),""trim""))'" o "@apach` $ del apachetmp.tmp;*t $ endif    ------------------------------    Date: 29 Mar 2005 05:01:36 -0800) From: "Ron Atkinson" <oj_287@yahoo.co.uk>d Subject: ASTB Message-ID: <1112101296.570722.26040@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>  E In pascal, I want to call a procedure from within an AST and pass onel integer parameter to it.  A What is the best way of doing this without screwing up the passedo parameter ?    ------------------------------    Date: 29 Mar 2005 10:26:10 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)e Subject: Re: AST3 Message-ID: <A0wMuTK0ARMs@eisner.encompasserve.org>d  n In article <1112101296.570722.26040@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>, "Ron Atkinson" <oj_287@yahoo.co.uk> writes:G > In pascal, I want to call a procedure from within an AST and pass one  > integer parameter to it. > C > What is the best way of doing this without screwing up the passed 
 > parameter ?a   In Pascal, that just works.R  1 Unless there is something you are not telling us.4  1 Like it was the AST parameter you wanted to pass.M  E Except that you typically only get one AST parameter, so I figure younL would have said "the integer parameter" rather than "one integer parameter".   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Mar 2005 06:23:12 -0800 From: tadamsmar@yahoo.come Subject: Autogen questioneC Message-ID: <1112278992.440525.293520@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>   9 There is a procedure in the System Management Manual that ! uses a batch file to run AUTOGEN:   R http://www.itec.suny.edu/scsys/vms/OVMSDOC073/V73/6017/6017pro_068.html#sampl_proc  E I extracted the steps from the batch file and the documentation.  Thef
 steps are:  0 @SYS$UPDATE:AUTOGEN SAVPARAMS SAVPARAMS FEEDBACK  . @SYS$UPDATE:AUTOGEN GETDATA TESTFILES FEEDBACK  + @SYS$UPDATE:AUTOGEN GETDATA REBOOT FEEDBACKd or? @SYS$UPDATE:AUTOGEN GETDATA SETPARAMS FEEDBACK and reboot latero  / But none of these steps have a GENPARAMS phase.t4 HELP AUTOGEN documentation leave the impression that( GENPARAMS would be needed at some point.  . So, is GENPARMS implicit in this procedure, or it is not needed?h   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Mar 2005 07:20:48 -0800 From: bill@wcschmidt.com Subject: Re: Autogen questionlC Message-ID: <1112282448.616218.119190@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>b  D This is kinda of open, but a new parameter file is not created untilC you use genparams, this is normally the last step after testing and- reviewing feedback.   $ @sys$update:autogen genparams reboot   tadamsmar@yahoo.com wrote:; > There is a procedure in the System Management Manual that0# > uses a batch file to run AUTOGEN:> >  >lR http://www.itec.suny.edu/scsys/vms/OVMSDOC073/V73/6017/6017pro_068.html#sampl_proc >oG > I extracted the steps from the batch file and the documentation.  The  > steps are: > 2 > @SYS$UPDATE:AUTOGEN SAVPARAMS SAVPARAMS FEEDBACK >l0 > @SYS$UPDATE:AUTOGEN GETDATA TESTFILES FEEDBACK >r- > @SYS$UPDATE:AUTOGEN GETDATA REBOOT FEEDBACKL > orA > @SYS$UPDATE:AUTOGEN GETDATA SETPARAMS FEEDBACK and reboot laterO >w1 > But none of these steps have a GENPARAMS phase.s6 > HELP AUTOGEN documentation leave the impression that* > GENPARAMS would be needed at some point. > 0 > So, is GENPARMS implicit in this procedure, or > it is not needed?r   ------------------------------   Date: 31 Mar 2005 15:15:58 GMT$ From: "Doc." <doc@openvms-rocks.com> Subject: Re: Autogen questiona7 Message-ID: <Xns962AAFD37706Adcovmsrox@212.100.160.126>p   %NEWS-I-NEWMSG,  wrote inn; news:1112278992.440525.293520@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com o   <snip>  - > @SYS$UPDATE:AUTOGEN GETDATA REBOOT FEEDBACKs > orA > @SYS$UPDATE:AUTOGEN GETDATA SETPARAMS FEEDBACK and reboot lateru > 1 > But none of these steps have a GENPARAMS phase."6 > HELP AUTOGEN documentation leave the impression that* > GENPARAMS would be needed at some point. > 0 > So, is GENPARMS implicit in this procedure, or > it is not needed?l  H The ones I've left include the processing for GENPARAMS, the inputs are 6 starting and finishing positions in the AUTOGEN cycle.  J So, @SYS$UPDATE:AUTOGEN GETDATA REBOOT FEEDBACK  does GETDATA, GENPARAMS,  SETPARAMS, and REBOOT.     Doc. -- lG OpenVMS:     Eight out of ten hackers prefer *other* operating systems..G http://www.openvms-rocks.com    Deathrow Public-Access OpenVMS Cluster.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 15:12:56 GMT 3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond)E Subject: Re: Autogen questiont2 Message-ID: <YrU2e.2626$AC1.1866@news.cpqcorp.net>  _ In article <1112278992.440525.293520@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, tadamsmar@yahoo.com writes: : >There is a procedure in the System Management Manual that" >uses a batch file to run AUTOGEN: >MS >http://www.itec.suny.edu/scsys/vms/OVMSDOC073/V73/6017/6017pro_068.html#sampl_procl >hF >I extracted the steps from the batch file and the documentation.  The >steps are:s >m1 >@SYS$UPDATE:AUTOGEN SAVPARAMS SAVPARAMS FEEDBACKe >a/ >@SYS$UPDATE:AUTOGEN GETDATA TESTFILES FEEDBACKa >n, >@SYS$UPDATE:AUTOGEN GETDATA REBOOT FEEDBACK >or F >@SYS$UPDATE:AUTOGEN GETDATA SETPARAMS FEEDBACK and reboot later       > 0 >But none of these steps have a GENPARAMS phase.5 >HELP AUTOGEN documentation leave the impression thato) >GENPARAMS would be needed at some point.f >r/ >So, is GENPARMS implicit in this procedure, ord >it is not needed?  = P1 and P2 specify the STARTING and ENDING phases for AUTOGEN. * Any/all phases between these are also run.  I @SYS$UPDATE:AUTOGEN HELP provides (among other information) the followinge ordered list of phases:   	 4  Phasesa	    ======h  &    Order    Phase          Description  B    1        SAVPARAMS      Saves dynamic feedback from the running"                            system.B    2        GETDATA        Collects all data to be used in AUTOGEN(                            calculations.C    3        GENPARAMS      Generates new system parameters; createsh4                            the installed image list.C    4        TESTFILES      Displays the system page, swap, and dumpaC                            file sizes calculated by AUTOGEN (cannotr5                            be used as a start phase).aD    5        GENFILES       Generates new system page, swap, and dumpD                            files if appropriate (cannot be used as a(                            start phase).<    6        SETPARAMS      Runs SYSGEN to set the new system>                            parameters in the default parameter?                            file, saves the original parameters,t>                            and generates a new parameter file,'                            AUTOGEN.PAR..@    7        SHUTDOWN       Prepares the system to await a manual"                            reboot.C    8        REBOOT         Automatically shuts down and reboots theb"                            system.   --  J       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Mar 2005 08:45:52 -0800 From: tadamsmar@yahoo.como Subject: Re: Autogen questiontC Message-ID: <1112287552.109753.189880@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>o  / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:AE > In article <1112278992.440525.293520@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,  > tadamsmar@yahoo.com writes:  >l4 > > @SYS$UPDATE:AUTOGEN SAVPARAMS SAVPARAMS FEEDBACK > >0 > > > >0
 > > > > orC > > @SYS$UPDATE:AUTOGEN GETDATA SETPARAMS FEEDBACK and reboot later  > >i3 > > But none of these steps have a GENPARAMS phase.t8 > > HELP AUTOGEN documentation leave the impression that, > > GENPARAMS would be needed at some point. > >b2 > > So, is GENPARMS implicit in this procedure, or > > it is not needed?s >kD > The first two arguments are the start phase and the end phase.  It does& > these two and all between, in order.  B So, if I don't mind loading the system when I am getting feedback,* I could do the whole process in two steps:  / @SYS$UPDATE:AUTOGEN SAVPARMS TESTFILES FEEDBACKh   (Review report)c  + @SYS$UPDATE:AUTOGEN GETDATA REBOOT FEEDBACKf   Correct?   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 18:03:07 GMT-% From: Rob Brown <mylastname@gmcl.com>0 Subject: Re: Autogen questionnD Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503311100050.2999@localhost.localdomain>  . On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 tadamsmar@yahoo.com wrote:  D > So, if I don't mind loading the system when I am getting feedback,, > I could do the whole process in two steps: >r1 > @SYS$UPDATE:AUTOGEN SAVPARMS TESTFILES FEEDBACKe >d > (Review report)a >r- > @SYS$UPDATE:AUTOGEN GETDATA REBOOT FEEDBACK  >W
 > Correct?   I would do this:  3    @SYS$UPDATE:AUTOGEN SAVPARAMS TESTFILES FEEDBACKr    (Review report)	    REBOOTr  C I see little benefit in recalculating the parameters if I like the  $ ones that have already been created.  < I generally leave off the FEEDBACK parameter.  Autogen will A automatically use feedback if the system has been up long enough.  And I'm a lazy typist.     -- e  B Rob Brown                        b r o w n a t g m c l d o t c o mA G. Michaels Consulting Ltd.      (866)438-2101 (voice) toll free!d6 Edmonton                         (780)438-9343 (voice)5                                   (780)437-3367 (FAX) 2                                   http://gmcl.com/   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 18:49:51 GMTs% From: Rob Brown <mylastname@gmcl.com>  Subject: Re: Autogen questioneD Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503311144140.3694@localhost.localdomain>  . On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 tadamsmar@yahoo.com wrote:   >c > Rob Brown wrote:1 >> On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 tadamsmar@yahoo.com wrote:n >>F >>> So, if I don't mind loading the system when I am getting feedback,. >>> I could do the whole process in two steps: >>> 3 >>> @SYS$UPDATE:AUTOGEN SAVPARMS TESTFILES FEEDBACKg >>>l >>> (Review report)e >>>i/ >>> @SYS$UPDATE:AUTOGEN GETDATA REBOOT FEEDBACK  >>>  >>> Correct? >> >> I would do this:t >>6 >>    @SYS$UPDATE:AUTOGEN SAVPARAMS TESTFILES FEEDBACK >>    (Review report)h >>    REBOOT >m > What do you mean?  >e* > Just rebooting will do nothing, I think.  - Oops.  My mistake.  You are right, of course.o  E I am so used to disconnecting my reboots from autogen that I lost my YD mind.  If the SETPARAMS phase is executed (as it is when the ending = phase is SETPARAMS or REBOOT but not TESTFILES) then the new  * parameters are ready for your next reboot.  E >> I see little benefit in recalculating the parameters if I like theR' >> ones that have already been created.s  F This statement is pure garbage.  (I can say that because I wrote it.) D If you only execute to TESTFILES before you review the report, then G you must calculate the parameters again when you execute the SETPARAMS   phase.     -- o  B Rob Brown                        b r o w n a t g m c l d o t c o mA G. Michaels Consulting Ltd.      (866)438-2101 (voice) toll free!e6 Edmonton                         (780)438-9343 (voice)5                                   (780)437-3367 (FAX)e2                                   http://gmcl.com/   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 14:04:21 -0500d- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  Subject: Re: Autogen questionaB Message-ID: <1112295858.9f61fa323c7aa6e53428d99d1dac68a6@teranews>   tadamsmar@yahoo.com wrote:0 > So, is GENPARMS implicit in this procedure, or > it is not needed?   $ I used to be confused with this too.  F AUTOGEN specify a start phase and an end phase and executes everything in between.   P @SYS$UPDATE:AUTOGEN HELP  will list the 8 phases in the order they are executed.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 16:51:46 -0500o' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>h Subject: Re: Autogen questiona0 Message-ID: <114orkpdm03gecd@corp.supernews.com>   Rob Brown wrote:0 > On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 tadamsmar@yahoo.com wrote: >  >> >> Rob Brown wrote:n >>2 >>> On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 tadamsmar@yahoo.com wrote: >>>sG >>>> So, if I don't mind loading the system when I am getting feedback, / >>>> I could do the whole process in two steps:  >>>>4 >>>> @SYS$UPDATE:AUTOGEN SAVPARMS TESTFILES FEEDBACK >>>> >>>> (Review report) >>>>0 >>>> @SYS$UPDATE:AUTOGEN GETDATA REBOOT FEEDBACK >>>>
 >>>> Correct?i >>>  >>>e >>> I would do this: >>>t7 >>>    @SYS$UPDATE:AUTOGEN SAVPARAMS TESTFILES FEEDBACKt >>>    (Review report)
 >>>    REBOOTd >> >> >> What do you mean? >>+ >> Just rebooting will do nothing, I think.v >  > / > Oops.  My mistake.  You are right, of course.  > G > I am so used to disconnecting my reboots from autogen that I lost my -F > mind.  If the SETPARAMS phase is executed (as it is when the ending J > phase is SETPARAMS or REBOOT but not TESTFILES) then the new parameters ! > are ready for your next reboot.u > F >>> I see little benefit in recalculating the parameters if I like the( >>> ones that have already been created. >  > K > This statement is pure garbage.  (I can say that because I wrote it.) If nG > you only execute to TESTFILES before you review the report, then you nK > must calculate the parameters again when you execute the SETPARAMS phase.g >  > C Oops, my mistake, GENPARAMS and SETPARAMS are on opposite sides of s
 TESTFILES.   Dave   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Mar 2005 05:49:29 -0800# From: "Galen" <gltackett@gmail.com>n Subject: Big ol' TexasB Message-ID: <1112276969.372152.63100@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   Bill Gunshannon wrote: >RD > Texas? Big?  Texas stopped being even the biggest state  in the USF > when I was still reading nickel comic books.  (anybody else remember$ > the Batman comic "The 49th Star"?) >C  F However, I suspect that in the view of some Texans,  Texas will always3 be the biggest. Said Texans may have egos to match.r  D It certainly SEEMS like the biggest if you drive across its greatest breadth. :-)  C Disclaimer I: I am not, nor have I ever been, a Texan. I DID attend C half of 6th grade there, though, and as a son of the 49ers I didn't G particularly enjoy learning all the patriotic Texas songs: "The eyes ofi> Texas are upon you," "Beautiful, beautiful Texas," etc., etc.,  4 Disclaimer II: No offense to actual Texans intended.  E Disclaimer III: All rights reserved under U.S. and international law.a9 Any resemblance to any actual persons, living or dead, isVF unintentional. Safe when as directed. Opinions expressed herein do notG necessarily represent those of the author, the reader, or anyone else It* can think of. Avoid breathing vapor(ware).   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 15:08:16 GMTn3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond)i Subject: Re: Big ol' Texas1 Message-ID: <AnU2e.2625$AC1.166@news.cpqcorp.net>a   Bill Gunshannon wrote: >dD > Texas? Big?  Texas stopped being even the biggest state  in the USF > when I was still reading nickel comic books.  (anybody else remember$ > the Batman comic "The 49th Star"?)  D I have heard it said that Texas went from being the biggest state inB the union to being the state with the biggest inferiority complex.   On the other hand...9 They say you should never as a man if he is from Texas --7; If he is HE will tell YOU sooner or later, and if he's not,l5 there is simply no need to embarrass the poor fellow.P  
 ;-)  FWIW.   --  J       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  * Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 08:49:44 +0000 (UTC)P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply): Subject: boot flags for firmware update from a system disk$ Message-ID: <d2j1v8$1qo$3@online.de>  G I see that for the 255 and 2x00 it is 0,a0 and for the 3000 it is 0,80  I according to http://ftp.digital.com/pub/DEC/Alpha/firmware/ .  Are these v* all correct, or is there a typo somewhere?   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 10:51:23 GMT 5 From: rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger)l> Subject: Re: boot flags for firmware update from a system diskL Message-ID: <rdeininger-0104050551220001@user-uinj46t.dialup.mindspring.com>  D In article <d2j1v8$1qo$3@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de1 (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) wrote:t  H >I see that for the 255 and 2x00 it is 0,a0 and for the 3000 it is 0,80 J >according to http://ftp.digital.com/pub/DEC/Alpha/firmware/ .  Are these + >all correct, or is there a typo somewhere?s  J Interesting.  I don't have the boot flag cheat sheet at my fingertips, andJ I don't recognize either of those bits from memory.  I suspect one of themI is a typo, but I bet either will work since evidently nobody has reporteda a problem in all these years.e  D For VMS, the second half of the boot flag string (the part after theI comma) is a bit mask in hexidecimal.  So "0,a0" is a superset of "0,80". eG I'm guessing one of the bits (likely 80) makes the boot code prompt youeA for a bootfile name, and that's all that matters in this context.o  C Just try it.  If it doesn't work, try the other boot flag.  I nevereE noticed a "destry system" bit; you're very unlikely to hurt anything.d   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Mar 2005 18:12:06 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)s/ Subject: Re: CLD symbol table object on Itanium 3 Message-ID: <lMlrpA+a9+mb@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  [ In article <jY_1e.2383$fr6.2028@news.cpqcorp.net>, John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com> writes:o  K > Rewriting the image activator from Macro-32 to C for I64 was viewed as a oJ > good thing.  Even if we kept to the same code base, we would have still % > have to do a medium amount of work.-  D The Alpha VMS 7.3-2 listings kit shows module SYS$IMGACT was writtenB in Bliss, with an edit history dating back to 1983.  Prior to 1983 probably it was in Macro.i   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Mar 2005 05:35:31 -0800* From: "Alan Greig" <greigaln@netscape.net>/ Subject: Re: CLD symbol table object on ItaniumtB Message-ID: <1112103331.946419.78490@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   John Reagan wrote: >  > D > As others have mentioned, there was already an ELF ABI defined for= > Itanium (various relocations are designed with knowledge ofb instructionoE > layouts, etc.).  We saw no reason not to use it and lots of benefiti from > using it.o  E I'm sure there's an X86-64 ELF ABI which I'd like to think would comet in handy some time.-   >- > --
 > John Reagan01 > HP Pascal/{A|I}MACRO for OpenVMS Project Leaderg > Hewlett-Packard Companyb -- f
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 15:38:14 +0000 (UTC)2P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: cloning a system disk$ Message-ID: <d2h5h5$m1e$1@online.de>  H I've mentioned this a few times here in the past, but have never gotten ! a completely satisfactory answer.-  F Does anyone have a fool-proof plan and/or DCL procedure for cloning a ? system disk?  What I want to do is use one member of a cleanly fF dismounted system-disk shadow set as the system disk on another node, F then, after the nodes are up and running, add a second member to each  single-disk shadow set.'  8 I have moved SYSUAF.DAT and all other files mentioned inF SYS$MANAGER:SYLOGICALS.TEMPLATE off the system disk, so that is not anC issue (including things like queue names etc---of course, after theaE system is up and running, I might want to set up additional queues on  it).    C What do I have to change before booting the new system IN THE SAME m: CLUSTER?  (Obviously, I will try a standalone boot first.)   Here's what I've thought of:  E    o  names of disk(s) for secondary page and/or swap files (MIGHT beT       different)    
    o  SCSNODEs      o  SCSSYSTEMIDo      o  ALLOCLASSr      o  TAPE_ALLOCLASS      o  IP address      o  IP hostnamen  A    o  complete TCPIP configuration if the name of the adapter is e#    o  different (not the case here)   I The primary reason is to avoid repeating the installation.  VMS itself I tE could live with, but I don't want to re-install all layered products.r  H Since this is a fresh system, I don't care about historical baggage likeA ACCOUNTNG.DAT, TCPIP log files etc.  However, in the future, whenyG repeating the process after upgrading VMS and/or installing new layeredeF products, it would be nice to save stuff like ACCOUNTNG.DAT, TCPIP logD files etc before the cloning then put them back in place of a cloned6 one.  Does anyone have a complete list of such things?   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 18:40:32 +0200 & From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@decus.ch>" Subject: Re: cloning a system disk, Message-ID: <3b2ng1F6f71q9U1@individual.net>  / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:dJ > I've mentioned this a few times here in the past, but have never gotten # > a completely satisfactory answer.  > H > Does anyone have a fool-proof plan and/or DCL procedure for cloning a A > system disk?  What I want to do is use one member of a cleanly 0H > dismounted system-disk shadow set as the system disk on another node, H > then, after the nodes are up and running, add a second member to each  > single-disk shadow set.d > : > I have moved SYSUAF.DAT and all other files mentioned inH > SYS$MANAGER:SYLOGICALS.TEMPLATE off the system disk, so that is not anE > issue (including things like queue names etc---of course, after theeG > system is up and running, I might want to set up additional queues on- > it).   > E > What do I have to change before booting the new system IN THE SAME u< > CLUSTER?  (Obviously, I will try a standalone boot first.) >  > Here's what I've thought of: > G >    o  names of disk(s) for secondary page and/or swap files (MIGHT beT >       different) @ >  >    o  SCSNODEr >  >    o  SCSSYSTEMIDn >  >    o  ALLOCLASSp >  >    o  TAPE_ALLOCLASS >  >    o  IP address >  >    o  IP hostnamea > C >    o  complete TCPIP configuration if the name of the adapter is t% >    o  different (not the case here)1 > K > The primary reason is to avoid repeating the installation.  VMS itself I ,G > could live with, but I don't want to re-install all layered products.t > J > Since this is a fresh system, I don't care about historical baggage likeC > ACCOUNTNG.DAT, TCPIP log files etc.  However, in the future, when-I > repeating the process after upgrading VMS and/or installing new layeredfH > products, it would be nice to save stuff like ACCOUNTNG.DAT, TCPIP logF > files etc before the cloning then put them back in place of a cloned8 > one.  Does anyone have a complete list of such things? >   F Please see the VMS FAQ - "How do I change the node name of an OpenVMS  System?"   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 18:11:41 +0000 (UTC)rP From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)" Subject: Re: cloning a system disk$ Message-ID: <d2hegt$3qh$2@online.de>  D In article <d2he6g$3qh$1@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de3 (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: 0  I > In particular, in my case, where SYSUAF.DAT is not on the system disk,  0 > what, if anything, do I need to do instead of  > I >       Use the AUTHORIZE utility command RENAME/IDENTIFIER to rename theiI >       SYS$NODE_oldnodename rightslist identifier to match the new node  I >       name. (Do not change the binary value of this identifier, and do c$ >       not delete the identifier.)   9 What creates this identifier when?  What is it used for? >   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 18:07:25 GMTl% From: Rob Brown <mylastname@gmcl.com>a" Subject: Re: cloning a system diskD Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503311105240.2999@localhost.localdomain>  & On Thu, 31 Mar 2005, Paul Sture wrote:  1 > Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:a >> ... >> 7F >> What do I have to change before booting the new system IN THE SAME < >> CLUSTER? (Obviously, I will try a standalone boot first.) >> - >> ... >iH > Please see the VMS FAQ - "How do I change the node name of an OpenVMS 
 > System?"  ? I haven't read the FAQ entry, so it may be mentioned there ....t  C I think Phillip has left "change the disk volume label" off of his 4 list.t     --    B Rob Brown                        b r o w n a t g m c l d o t c o mA G. Michaels Consulting Ltd.      (866)438-2101 (voice) toll free!n6 Edmonton                         (780)438-9343 (voice)5                                   (780)437-3367 (FAX)f2                                   http://gmcl.com/   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 18:39:31 +0000 (UTC)u. From: klewis@LUMINA.MITRE.ORG (Keith A. Lewis)" Subject: Re: cloning a system disk. Message-ID: <d2hg53$ob4$2@newslocal.mitre.org>   helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes in article <d2h5h5$m1e$1@online.de> dated Thu, 31 Mar 2005 15:38:14 +0000 (UTC):D >What do I have to change before booting the new system IN THE SAME ; >CLUSTER?  (Obviously, I will try a standalone boot first.)   2 Somebody else mentioned system disk volume name.    J Any NO_SHARE licenses in LMF$LICENSE.LDB.  VMS only enforces NO_SHARE when+ the nodes are booted into the same cluster.s  0 --Keith Lewis              klewis {at} mitre.org> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 14:19:26 -05000- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>t" Subject: Re: cloning a system diskB Message-ID: <1112296763.5d8b106dd45c0fce4e0a421ede924b05@teranews>  / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:-D > What do I have to change before booting the new system IN THE SAME< > CLUSTER?  (Obviously, I will try a standalone boot first.)    ? Have you considered creating a different root for the new node:0  H eg, on node1 you have [SyS0] which contains all the node specifid stuff.  D you use cluster_config to create [sys2] which will be used by node2.H (make it look like node2 will be a satellite) This will populate it with some of the information.  E Then, when you clone the disk drive, you tell node 2 to boot from ther sys2 root in the boot flags.  9 This would allow both nodes to co-exist on cloned drives.a  B (eg: you could boot node2 with personality of node1 and vice versaB (assuming similar hardware characteristics). And if you shadow theO drives, you then have mirroered system drives so that you can ease maintenance.I    N In your message, yo forgot the decnet database, as well as the proxy database.   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Mar 2005 13:38:14 -0600 From: briggs@encompasserve.org" Subject: Re: cloning a system disk3 Message-ID: <cL7qkx3Y+OTA@eisner.encompasserve.org>z  w In article <d2he6g$3qh$1@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: 9 > In article <3b2ng1F6f71q9U1@individual.net>, Paul Sture/  > <paul.sture@decus.ch> writes:  > I >> Please see the VMS FAQ - "How do I change the node name of an OpenVMS w >> System?"v >  > Yes, of course.u > 8 > However, is this completely accurate and up-to-date?   > J > "There are likely a few other areas where the nodename will be stored."  > K > "This may well have missed one or two configuration tools (or more!) that J > are needed at your site---the node name tends to get stored all over the7 > place, in layered products, and in local software..."e >  > :-(  > * > It would be nice to split it into parts: >  >    o  what to do in any case > , >    o  what to do if you are running DECnet > + >    o  what to do if you are running TCPIPh > ; >    o  what to do if SYSUAF.DAT etc are on the system diske > I > In particular, in my case, where SYSUAF.DAT is not on the system disk, n0 > what, if anything, do I need to do instead of  > I >       Use the AUTHORIZE utility command RENAME/IDENTIFIER to rename theeI >       SYS$NODE_oldnodename rightslist identifier to match the new node sI >       name. (Do not change the binary value of this identifier, and do 1$ >       not delete the identifier.)   A If you are planning to boot INTO THE SAME CLUSTER then you do NOTsH want to rename the identifier.  You want the new system to automaticallyC populate RIGHTSLIST.DAT with a new node-specific identifier when it/ first boots up.>  A It is in the case where the new node runs on a copy of the systemoF disk, but in an isolated cluster where you would want any SYS$NODE_xxxB identifiers buried in ACLs on the system disk to denote the copiedE system rather than the original system where you would want to renamecI the identifier to refer to the copied system name instead of the originalo system name.   	John Briggs   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 16:03:54 +0200s, From: Albrecht Schlosser <ajs856@tiscali.de>" Subject: Re: cloning a system disk, Message-ID: <ickj2d.4dn.ln@news.hus-soft.de>  / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:O   > E > What do I have to change before booting the new system IN THE SAME  < > CLUSTER?  (Obviously, I will try a standalone boot first.) >  > Here's what I've thought of: > G >    o  names of disk(s) for secondary page and/or swap files (MIGHT be@ >       different) a >  >    o  SCSNODEe >  >    o  SCSSYSTEMID.  Q If you change SCSNODE and/or SCSSYSTEMID you _may_ have to recreate your (local)  Q queues. At least, if (some of) the queues shall be on the new local node and not SP on the original node - but maybe I'm wrong with this, because I'm not a cluster  specialist.:   >    o  ALLOCLASSm >  >    o  TAPE_ALLOCLASS >  >    o  IP address >  >    o  IP hostnameh > C >    o  complete TCPIP configuration if the name of the adapter is t% >    o  different (not the case here)a > K > The primary reason is to avoid repeating the installation.  VMS itself I  G > could live with, but I don't want to re-install all layered products.n > J > Since this is a fresh system, I don't care about historical baggage likeC > ACCOUNTNG.DAT, TCPIP log files etc.  However, in the future, whenaI > repeating the process after upgrading VMS and/or installing new layereddH > products, it would be nice to save stuff like ACCOUNTNG.DAT, TCPIP logF > files etc before the cloning then put them back in place of a cloned8 > one.  Does anyone have a complete list of such things? >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 08:30:45 -0500.( From: Wayne Sewell <wayne@tachysoft.com>. Subject: datesim and rdb soon to be compatible/ Message-ID: <00A4188B.3B79EEAA.8@tachysoft.com>   L As has been mentioned in the comp.os.vms newsgroup on occasion, DateSim is aN product that allows individual processes to run with a different date and time  than the rest of the VMS system.  K It was originally intended for Y2K testing.  Not surprisingly, sales were ajN little flat after Y2K passed, but it has found a new life implementing virtual
 timezones.  O Virtual timezones are useful for server consolidation, where one server handlesaL users from many different timezones.  As each user logs in, the time for hisL process is set to that of his local timezone, and that is what he sees, evenJ though the server as a whole is running under the regular VMS system time.  M In the past, this functionality could not be used with RDB or Oracle Classic,n> because they did not use the sys$gettim system service for theN current_timestamp function.  Instead the time quadword was accessed directly. I Given the number of potential customers using RDB or Oracle Classic, this ) essentially killed DateSim a second time.   M However, I am happy to report that RDB engineering has made a modification to'M resolve this situation.  RDB 7.2, to be released this summer, has a hook thata$ allows compatibility with DateSim.    P By default, current_timestamp will continue to access the system time quadword. N HOWEVER, if a particular logical name is set, the timestamp function will thenO use sys$gettim.  This is all that is required to make DateSim work with RDB.  AeN process logical name can be used, which means that processes not in pseudotimeN are not affected and will continue to use the quadword.  One can simply define@ the logical at process level when activating pseudotime with the& SYNCH_WITH_TIMEZONE command procedure.  H I have tested this with the field test kit of RDB 7.2 and it does work. I If the logical is set, current_timestamp returns pseudotime as it should.0  N Unfortunately, this only applies to RDB.  Oracle Classic is still incompatible> with DateSim.  I don't even know who to contact in that group.  L No changes to DateSim are required, though a later version may simply defineN the logical automatically in SYNCH_WITH_TIMEZONE, so the customer doesn't have/ to deal with it at all, or even be aware of it.   E Inquiries about DateSim can be directed to sales@softwarepartners.coml   Wayne O ===============================================================================cN Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738   wayne@tachysoft.com; http://www.tachysoft.com/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html   rO =============================================================================== P Jake Blues:"You traded the Caddy for a microphone? ...... Okay, I can buy that."   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 08:27:36 -0800% From: DeanW <dean.woodward@gmail.com>a2 Subject: Re: datesim and rdb soon to be compatible6 Message-ID: <3f119ada05040108272678e11@mail.gmail.com>  B On Mar 30, 2005 5:30 AM, Wayne Sewell <wayne@tachysoft.com> wrote:O > However, I am happy to report that RDB engineering has made a modification to.O > resolve this situation.  RDB 7.2, to be released this summer, has a hook thatw$ > allows compatibility with DateSim.  O As an Application Service Provider with online customers in multiple timezones:   B a) Yay! It's about time someone realized that some business occursA across tiemzones, and that the relevant timestamp isn't where theo& server is, it's where the customer is.  A b) Waaah! There's already been a *lot* of effort put into workingD= around that issue... Oh, well- the relevant people can have aEE code-removal party. (Removing extraneous code is always a good reasona to celebrate.)   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Mar 2005 05:45:49 -0800 From: tadamsmar@yahoo.comE$ Subject: Downloading patches via PC?C Message-ID: <1112190349.762162.252070@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>h  @ The OpenVMS systems that I manage will soon be isolated from the	 Internet.i  E If I want a patch,  I will have to download it via a Windows 2000 PC,.E and put it on a particular server that can be accessed by the OpenVMSb systems.  = But I seem to remember having trouble with patch files that Ir< downloaded to a PC and then FTPed over to an OpenVMS system.  & Does anyone recall problems with this?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 14:59:05 +0100 0 From: Chris Sharman <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam>( Subject: Re: Downloading patches via PC?4 Message-ID: <d2ebb9$440$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>   tadamsmar@yahoo.com wrote:  B > The OpenVMS systems that I manage will soon be isolated from the > Internet.E > G > If I want a patch,  I will have to download it via a Windows 2000 PC,EG > and put it on a particular server that can be accessed by the OpenVMSU
 > systems. > ? > But I seem to remember having trouble with patch files that Is> > downloaded to a PC and then FTPed over to an OpenVMS system. > ( > Does anyone recall problems with this?  
 Works for me.oG Things to remember: use ftp in binary/image mode, not ascii, and unzip e on vms, not on pc.   Chris-   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 18:45:51 GMTo, From: "warren sander" <warren.sander@hp.com>( Subject: Re: Downloading patches via PC?1 Message-ID: <ztC2e.2545$qF.2519@news.cpqcorp.net>2  I also remember the extension that the file is supposed to have. When doing:	 downloadsDI to windows sometimes the extensions get lost. Mostly OpenVMS doesn't careK but in someaI cases it does. If it downloads and you can get it to OpenVMS then you canN 'run' the file and it will uncompress itself.   also download the _ http://h71000.www7.hp.com/freeware/freeware70/000tools/reset_backup_saveset_file_attributes.com  file in case you need it..o  5 and unzip with the "-V" option if things are zipped..s   -warreno  = "Chris Sharman" <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam> wrote in messageT. news:d2ebb9$440$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk... > tadamsmar@yahoo.com wrote: >nD > > The OpenVMS systems that I manage will soon be isolated from the
 > > Internet.v > >cI > > If I want a patch,  I will have to download it via a Windows 2000 PC,-I > > and put it on a particular server that can be accessed by the OpenVMSr > > systems. > >mA > > But I seem to remember having trouble with patch files that I.@ > > downloaded to a PC and then FTPed over to an OpenVMS system. > >c* > > Does anyone recall problems with this? >s > Works for me.rH > Things to remember: use ftp in binary/image mode, not ascii, and unzip > on vms, not on pc. >t > Chrisd   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 21:26:27 -0600t2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>( Subject: Re: Downloading patches via PC?+ Message-ID: <424B6DE3.B417D57A@comcast.net>Y   warren sander wrote: > 7 > and unzip with the "-V" option if things are zipped..   H Actually, "-V" to UNZIP (means something different to ZIP - *GOTTA* loveE UN*X-isms!) means to preserve version numbers if they are included in < the archive (archive was ZIPped with "-w" or /KEEP_VERSION).   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:d" http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/T  " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/e   Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Mar 2005 23:13:50 +01006 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)( Subject: Re: Downloading patches via PC?, Message-ID: <424c842e$1@NEWS.LANGSTOEGER.AT>  _ In article <1112190349.762162.252070@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, tadamsmar@yahoo.com writes:eA >The OpenVMS systems that I manage will soon be isolated from the 
 >Internet. > F >If I want a patch,  I will have to download it via a Windows 2000 PC,F >and put it on a particular server that can be accessed by the OpenVMS	 >systems.t > > >But I seem to remember having trouble with patch files that I= >downloaded to a PC and then FTPed over to an OpenVMS system.  >n' >Does anyone recall problems with this?   J If it is a .ZIPEXE or a .DCXEXE file a simple (binary) download is enough.F (the VMS image activator is friendly and accepts also Stream files ;-)N If it is a .PCSI$COMPRESSED file, you need to repair it on VMS after the xfer.  $ SET FILE/ATT=(RFM=FIX,LRL=512)   -- , Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Mar 2005 11:44:42 +0100K From: pmoreau@ath.cena.fr (Patrick MOREAU, CENA Athis, Tel: 01.69.57.68.40)u> Subject: Re: DS15 RADEON 7500 hang solved (at least partially)! Message-ID: <ikZE$K4ut7OV@sinead>   _ In article <kJV1e.2352$xK5.1417@news.cpqcorp.net>, "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com> writes:  [...]  > L > When the system locks up like that, it is likely that something has wedgedI > on the PCI bus.  Since some of the problems are bus interaction issues, 6 > you might try changing the slot that the card is in. >    Hi Fred,  J On my DS15 the Radeon was in the upper PCI slot. I've just moved it on theO second slot frop the top, but the hangs occurs in 7.3-2 . No problems with 8.2.   K I hope the Graphics Eco 3.0 will soon be available, I don't planned to use   8.2 so soon.  eM Best Regards (and thank for all the hard work you made in all those drivers).t   Patrick  --O ===============================================================================cN pmoreau@ath.cena.fr  (CENA/SDER) ______      ___   _          (Patrick MOREAU)4 moreau_p@decus.fr (DECUS)       / /   /     / /|  /|J CENA/SDER/Athis-Mons France    / /___/     / / | / |   __   __   __   __  N BP 205                        / /         / /  |/  |  |  | |__| |__  |__| |  |N 94542 ORLY AEROGARE CEDEX    / /   ::    / /       |  |__| | \  |__  |  | |__|N http://www.ath.cena.fr/~pmoreau/              http://membres.lycos.fr/pmoreau/O ===============================================================================u   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Apr 2005 04:58:11 -08000+ From: "Nitendra" <ns_panwar@rediffmail.com>r% Subject: dvd writing software on OVMSoB Message-ID: <1112360291.714908.94990@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>  $ Can any body tell me if there is any= dvd writing software(dvd +/-R & DVD +/-RW) for OVMS ver 7.3.2 " i am using pinoneer drive dvr 109.  > any freeware or commercial version is avaiable pls let me know  
 N.S.Panwar   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Apr 2005 05:02:26 -0800 + From: "Nitendra" <ns_panwar@rediffmail.com>t) Subject: Re: dvd writing software on OVMSaB Message-ID: <1112360546.292540.12830@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   try cdrecord   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Apr 2005 04:40:22 -0800n' From: "Transoft" <mlittle@transoft.com> 9 Subject: Finding The Right Path For Your VMS ApplicationsoB Message-ID: <1112359222.441019.34140@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>  @ Invitation to participate in Web Seminar or receive information.  E IT departments are facing pressure to increase ROI like never before; E this pressure means that taking risks with IT systems is no longer ane option.   E Transoft's Pathfinder process is designed to find the best option forRA your organization, we know that one size does not always fit all.@  E Regardless of whether you choose to replace with packages, redevelop, D upgrade, integrate or migrate your applications, you need to be sureF you have made the right decision and there are no nasty surprise costs hiding around the corner.t  G Transoft specialise in getting more from your existing applications andF
 data sets.4 If it works - don't throw it away - just improve it.  G The only certainty in IT is that nothing lasts forever and Transoft hassF 20 years experience of migrating and upgrading mission critical legacy
 applications.   = Transoft provides a migration and modernization approach that G transforms your entire OpenVMS application to run natively on platforms " including UNIX, Linux and Windows.  F With Transoft's Application Migration solution for OpenVMS you can getD to the UNIX, Linux or Windows platform of your choice, improving the1 functionality of your applications along the way!y  C If you would like to participate in our next Web Seminar or receivet+ information please feel free to contact us.    Michelle Littleh   mlittle@transoft.com   0044 (1) 753 778000b   www.transoft.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 14:05:28 +0100  From: Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net>i= Subject: Re: Finding The Right Path For Your VMS Applicationsw( Message-ID: <424D4718.9050709@Omond.net>   Transoft spouted garbage:    > [...drivel snipped...]I > Transoft specialise in getting more from your existing applications and( > data sets.6 > If it works - don't throw it away - just improve it.  @ Good advice.  In other words, your OpenVMS platform ain't broke.7 So don't throw it away - improve it.  With you on that.m   Right on, Sister ...  I > The only certainty in IT is that nothing lasts forever and Transoft hasfH > 20 years experience of migrating and upgrading mission critical legacy > applications.m  1 Well, my OpenVMS stuff does seem to last forever.   + "Migrating mission critical applications" ?    Yeah, right on, Sister ...  ? > Transoft provides a migration and modernization approach thatEI > transforms your entire OpenVMS application to run natively on platforms-$ > including UNIX, Linux and Windows.  E Why on earth would one want to do that ?  Remember your advice above:c$ "if it works - don't throw it away".   Right on, Sister ...  H > With Transoft's Application Migration solution for OpenVMS you can getF > to the UNIX, Linux or Windows platform of your choice, improving the3 > functionality of your applications along the way!l  G How on earth would taking such a risky, fraught-with-peril, unnecessaryr> step like that "improve the functionality of my applications ?   Right on, Sister ...  E > If you would like to participate in our next Web Seminar or receiveA- > information please feel free to contact us.l  F Nah, what I'm looking for is to migrate *from* Unix, Linux and WindowsE *to* OpenVMS.  I'm expecting you to be the absolute experts and world 7 leaders on this.  Looking forward to you contacting me.    Right on, Sister ...      	 Roy Omondo Blue Bubble Ltd.         *Sigh*.n   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 11:48:14 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>n= Subject: Re: Finding The Right Path For Your VMS Applicationsn0 Message-ID: <114qu7lb0gqkf62@corp.supernews.com>   Roy Omond wrote: > Transoft spouted garbage:h  	 > *Sigh*.i  $ Surely you're aware of today's date?   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 11:44:58 -0500b6 From: Brad Hamilton <brMadAhaPmiSlton@coMmcAasPt.Snet>= Subject: Re: Finding The Right Path For Your VMS Applicationse0 Message-ID: <It2dnZHO6P0R59DfRVn-iA@comcast.com>   Dave Froble wrote: > Roy Omond wrote: >  >> Transoft spouted garbage: >  > 
 >> *Sigh*. >  > & > Surely you're aware of today's date?  C Sorry, www.transoft.com looks legitimate enough to me.  There is a uC "blinking" navigation link on the left-hand side of the page which a
 offers to:  F "...help over 400,000 legacy VMS & OpenVMS users worldwide migrate to  UNIX and Windows."  # Call them today; they can help.	:-)g   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 20:07:11 +0200S& From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@decus.ch>= Subject: Re: Finding The Right Path For Your VMS Applicationsa, Message-ID: <3b5gugF6e801qU1@individual.net>   Roy Omond wrote:   > Transoft spouted garbage:  >  >> [...drivel snipped...]aJ >> Transoft specialise in getting more from your existing applications and
 >> data sets.o7 >> If it works - don't throw it away - just improve it.j >  > B > Good advice.  In other words, your OpenVMS platform ain't broke.9 > So don't throw it away - improve it.  With you on that.I >  > Right on, Sister ... > J >> The only certainty in IT is that nothing lasts forever and Transoft hasI >> 20 years experience of migrating and upgrading mission critical legacyt >> applications. >  > 3 > Well, my OpenVMS stuff does seem to last forever.r > - > "Migrating mission critical applications" ?s >  > Yeah, right on, Sister ... > @ >> Transoft provides a migration and modernization approach thatJ >> transforms your entire OpenVMS application to run natively on platforms% >> including UNIX, Linux and Windows.A >  > G > Why on earth would one want to do that ?  Remember your advice above: & > "if it works - don't throw it away". >  > Right on, Sister ... > I >> With Transoft's Application Migration solution for OpenVMS you can get"G >> to the UNIX, Linux or Windows platform of your choice, improving thei4 >> functionality of your applications along the way! >  > I > How on earth would taking such a risky, fraught-with-peril, unnecessarya@ > step like that "improve the functionality of my applications ? >  > Right on, Sister ... > F >> If you would like to participate in our next Web Seminar or receive. >> information please feel free to contact us. >  > H > Nah, what I'm looking for is to migrate *from* Unix, Linux and WindowsG > *to* OpenVMS.  I'm expecting you to be the absolute experts and worldr9 > leaders on this.  Looking forward to you contacting me.e >  > Right on, Sister ... >   F Hey Roy. What else do you expect from a company whose UK branch is in $ Sluff? See the damning address here:  * http://www.transoft.com/contact/slough.htm   >  >  > 	 > *Sigh*.d   I agree.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 15:14:04 +0100n2 From: "Internetcaf Eglantier" <swov-ic@planet.nl>6 Subject: Re: Forgotten system password? (Alpha & 3100)* Message-ID: <d1uij9$mdg$1@reader11.wxs.nl>  - UAF> modify system /pwdlife=0 (or /nopwdlife)r  ' sets the password lifetime to infinity.j   Rien.b    4 "Neil Cherry" <njc@wolfgang.uucp> schreef in bericht( news:slrnd3m7fv.ekv.njc@wolfgang.uucp...@ > On 18 Mar 2005 09:33:09 -0600, briggs@encompasserve.org wrote:> > > In article <slrnd3lplk.dv5.njc@wolfgang.uucp>, Neil Cherry <njc@wolfgang.uucp> writes:eG > >> Oh I've gone and done it, I've forgotten the system password on myrC > >> 2 lab machines (I support DECNet Phase IV testing from time to J > >> time). I know I found the instructsions for the 3100 but I can't findJ > >> them. For the Alpha I haven't found anything yet. On the Alpha I haveI > >> one user account that I think has system privileges. I have physical 4 > >> access to both machines and this is not a hack. > >nI > > Is this the password to the SYSTEM account that you're talking about?  > >aE > > Or the /SYSTEM password that can be optionally required for login F > > from specified terminals and is set with UAF> SET PASSWORD /SYSTEM > >oI > > In either case, the most obvious solution is described in the OpenVMSo > > FAQ, > >.= > > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/faq/vmsfaq_006.html#index_x_391e > >dB > > [In summary, this reference walks you through a conversational
 bootstrap.L > > Once booted, you will be presented with a $ prompt on the system console$ > > without having to log in first.] >oD > That sounds familiar, yes I've had to do this before. About 2 or 3G > years ago I hosed up my 3100. I seldom get to use VMS so it's easy togH > forget the password. I have tried to turn off the aging but I've neverF > been able to do it for system. BTW, it's the system account login. IG > hadn't needed to use the /SYSTEM. Rats! It looks like my user accountoC > doesn't have system privileges (I thought I set that, guess not).w >w > > And then > >i8 > > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/faq/vmsfaq_007.html#mgmt5a > >yE > > [In summary, this reference walks you through using the Authorize06 > > utility to set the password on the SYSTEM account] >>F > Excellent! I will get to work on that right away! Then I'll turn the@ > Alpha into an ftp & tftp server. If I use it I won't loose it! >  > Thank you. >r > -- mE > Linux Home Automation         Neil Cherry       ncherry@comcast.netr= > http://home.comcast.net/~ncherry/               (Text only)o: > http://hcs.sourceforge.net/                     (HCS II)< > http://linuxha.blogspot.com/                    My HA Blog   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 17:12:42 -0500o- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>PA Subject: Re: HEADS UP - HP OpenVMS Announcment from Rich Marcello-B Message-ID: <1112047951.49e674032b8746b1951ec959a923a41e@teranews>   Dirk Munk wrote: > : > That sounds good to me, at least she knows what VMS is !  F Not only that, but she is also known to the VMS people and already hasE (probably) built relations with most of the VMS folks. So that avoidstF fear and loathing that happens when a totally unknown person takes the helm of a department.d  @ On the other side of the coin, feeding from within as opposed toE fetching a real HP person does continue the relative isolation of VMSoG within HP. So it remains difficult to remove the "NIH" sticker from themF VMS product. Now, if Marcello gets Ann Livermore's job, kicks StallardH out and puts Gorham in, it would widen the breath of the VMS grip on HP.  G Who knows, perhaps we should really be hoping for the VMS group to takeo1 control of HP instead of the other way around :-)i  C > And let us all wish HP a new CEO who remembers the time that thishI > company was renowned for its top quality high tech products, instead ofi. > overpriced ink catridges and rebadged Ipods.  H Actually, if the new CEO is not from within HP, it may bring in a breathH of fresh air in terms of not discriminating agianst non-HP products such as VMS.   F My bet right now is on Ann Livermore getting either the CEO or COO jobG (most likely COO since she already knows HP well). Marcello or Stallard : getting Ann Livermore's job. Lets pray its isn't Stallard.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 00:14:34 +0200t- From: Didier Morandi <prenom.nom@freesurf.fr>sA Subject: Re: HEADS UP - HP OpenVMS Announcment from Rich Marcelloa4 Message-ID: <424881cb$0$11535$626a14ce@news.free.fr>  " susan_skonetski@hotmail.com wrote: >  -----Original Message-----n > From: 	Skonetski, Susane& > Sent:	Monday, March 28, 2005 2:06 PM > To:	Skonetski, Susan? > Subject:	HEADS UP - HP OpenVMS Announcment from Rich Marcelloe >  >  > G > I'm pleased to announce that effective April 4th, Ann McQuaid will be-G > the new General Manager of the OpenVMS Systems Division, reporting tou > me.l  ; Terry, your name is just after her's here (last paragraph):D\ http://www.openvmshobbyist.com/openvms_history/hobbyist_history/hobbyist_page/Jankowiak.html   :-)n   D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 17:21:27 -0500s- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>-A Subject: Re: HEADS UP - HP OpenVMS Announcment from Rich MarcellotB Message-ID: <1112048476.7185e0e306341d70d3706660f7d4df26@teranews>   Didier Morandi wrote:s= > Terry, your name is just after her's here (last paragraph):r^ > http://www.openvmshobbyist.com/openvms_history/hobbyist_history/hobbyist_page/Jankowiak.html   In the list above, there is:   ##: Fred Kliengeorge, Rich Marcello, Jesse Lipcon, Ann McQuaid ##  F Is Fred Kliengeorge a clone or distanmmt relative of Fred Kleinsorge ?  G Of significance is the inclusion of Ann McQuaid in the "thanks to those-. for helping the hobbyist programme" paragraph.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 18:44:31 -0500a- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>eA Subject: Re: HEADS UP - HP OpenVMS Announcment from Rich MarcellorB Message-ID: <1112053452.5c90b7345ea1b973a1aa251e68d4dcd6@teranews>   Dirk Munk wrote:G > I see what you mean, but I was not referring to specific 'HP classic'aJ > products. What I meant was the kind of products HP used to sell, and I'mJ > sure you will agree with me that VMS is a top quality high tech product.  / Those high quality products are now at Agilent.a  E The new CEO will have an interesting decision to make with regards tolG HP's future and structure. Perhaps not a big as what Gerstner had to doeF when he got in since IBM had already hired investment bankers to start5 the process of splitting IBM into a gazillion pieces.f  C If the new CEO is from the outside, then the opinions from all. thebG senior VPs may be important. It would be interesting to know what folkseH liek Ann Livermore think, not only about HP in general, but the products they inherited from Digital.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 00:31:45 +0200n From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>A Subject: Re: HEADS UP - HP OpenVMS Announcment from Rich Marcellor2 Message-ID: <d2a0km$6gq$1@news2.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>  C >>And let us all wish HP a new CEO who remembers the time that this-I >>company was renowned for its top quality high tech products, instead of@. >>overpriced ink catridges and rebadged Ipods. >>     >> >eI >Actually, if the new CEO is not from within HP, it may bring in a breathhI >of fresh air in terms of not discriminating agianst non-HP products such  >as VMS. >  H >Z  F I see what you mean, but I was not referring to specific 'HP classic' I products. What I meant was the kind of products HP used to sell, and I'm  H sure you will agree with me that VMS is a top quality high tech product.   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 20:45:09 +0000 (UTC) = From: jlw@psulias.psu.edu (j.lance wilkinson, (814) 865-1818)2% Subject: Re: History of the VMS sharkl- Message-ID: <d2ceol$q4a$1@f04n12.cac.psu.edu>s  r In article <1110471332.16bf4614d467ea01601a5a5a22286ab6@teranews>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:   >I have 2 questions here:r >y= >For the sake of documentation in that page, does anyone knowiI >when/where/how/whom the first use of the shark was made (in reference tol >VMS, of course) ? > C >And if one wanted to put a small icon on web pages, should it read F >"Powered by VMS", "Powered by OpenVMS" , "VMS rocks" or what ???? Any >suggestions ?  : 	Don't forget one incorporating the Apache feather, with aC 	small shark overlaid on it, with "Powered by SWS (based on Apache) = 	on OpenVMS" for those of us running [C]SWS to put on our web  	pages.)  P +----"Never Underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of mag tapes"--+B | J.Lance Wilkinson ("Lance")		InterNet:  Lance.Wilkinson@psu.edu < | Systems Design Specialist - Lead	AT&T:      (814) 865-18189 | Digital Library Technologies		FAX:       (814) 863-3560u2 | 3 Paterno Library				"I'd rather be dancing..." B | Penn State University		    A host is a host from coast to coast,K | University Park, PA 16802	    And no one will talk to a host that's closeHC | <postmaster@psulias.psu.edu>	    Unless the host that isn't close : | EMail Professional since 1978	    Is busy, hung or dead.P +---------"He's dead, Jim. I'll get his tricorder. You take his wallet."-------+9                 [apologies to DeForest Kelley, 1920-1999] 3 <A Href="http://perdita.lcs.psu.edu">home page</a> EJ <a Href="http://perdita.lcs.psu.edu/junkdec.htm">junk mail declaration</a> --	/"\ 	\ /	ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN 	 X	AGAINST HTML MAILg 	/ \   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 04:34:42 -0500-- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>9% Subject: Re: History of the VMS sharkmB Message-ID: <1112261682.d0d5c8eab756d4c83b38d1436e87e28e@teranews>  D Ok, so Linux has a penguin named Tux ...	(Tuxedo -> penguin suit :-)  H How should the VMS shark be named ? If it is to be our mascott, it needs
 a name ...      Perhaps Ken  ?  (from Ken Olsen)    M (I'm almost done rebuilding the shark, only the teeth remain (mouth is done).e We can rebuild him...e   It will be stronger, better etcw' and it won't cost 6 million dollars :-).   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 05:55:40 -0800m# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>l% Subject: Re: History of the VMS sharko( Message-ID: <opsoh8y2vjzgicya@hyrrokkin>  D On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 20:45:09 +0000 (UTC), j.lance wilkinson, (814)  % 865-1818 <jlw@psulias.psu.edu> wrote:   ? >  For the sake of documentation in that page, does anyone knowrK >> when/where/how/whom the first use of the shark was made (in reference to. >> VMS, of course) ?     Speaking of sharks- http://www.axiomsol.com/pro_serv/compiler.phpi   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Mar 2005 08:01:35 -0800 From: webbww@bellsouth.net% Subject: Re: History of the VMS shark C Message-ID: <1112284797.072807.200390@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>R   It was in 1990.  <P>  <A HREF="http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.os.vms/browse_frm/thread/a39ea41bf4022ef2/27e39eaad1c69851?q=VMS+Shark&rnum=13#27e39eaad1c69851">D The *original* shark story, as told to me by the one who dun it.</A>   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 19:01:04 GMT , From: "warren sander" <warren.sander@hp.com>% Subject: Re: History of the VMS shark 2 Message-ID: <QNX2e.2662$m02.1515@news.cpqcorp.net>  L the shark's name is Vernon because one of the first things we used it on was supposedL to have the shark and OpenVMS Version x.x (I think it was 6.2 but could have
 been 6.0).) anyway it came back as OpenVMS Vernon x.x $ so the shark was thus named vernon..  L I know we killed ASAP the collateral (I think it was shirts and maybe mugs).   -warren   : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message< news:1112261682.d0d5c8eab756d4c83b38d1436e87e28e@teranews...F > Ok, so Linux has a penguin named Tux ... (Tuxedo -> penguin suit :-) >aJ > How should the VMS shark be named ? If it is to be our mascott, it needs > a name ... >m >s" > Perhaps Ken  ?  (from Ken Olsen) >  >iH > (I'm almost done rebuilding the shark, only the teeth remain (mouth is done). > We can rebuild him...E >d! > It will be stronger, better etca) > and it won't cost 6 million dollars :-)h   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 22:33:16 GMTeL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing)% Subject: Re: History of the VMS shark 6 Message-ID: <00A41987.0A16248A@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  N In article <opsoh8y2vjzgicya@hyrrokkin>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:E >On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 20:45:09 +0000 (UTC), j.lance wilkinson, (814)   & >865-1818 <jlw@psulias.psu.edu> wrote: > @ >>  For the sake of documentation in that page, does anyone knowL >>> when/where/how/whom the first use of the shark was made (in reference to >>> VMS, of course) ?i >r >  >Speaking of sharksy. >http://www.axiomsol.com/pro_serv/compiler.php    Those look like dolphins to me.    -- Alan-   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 04:18:55 -05008- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>i: Subject: HP names Mark Gorham as VP of home sales division, Message-ID: <424D11C3.89986DD9@teksavvy.com>  < HP Expands Service, Opens new sales channel for its products  G Industry-leading consumer products will now get more personalised sales  and service channelo  ! PALO ALTO, Calif., April 1, 2005 )  A HP today announced the creation of a new direct sales and supportaC division to be headed by Mark Gorham who will work for Vyomesh (VJ)NG Joshi, executive vice president, Imaging and Personal Systems Group. Mr J Gorham was Vice President of  OpenVMS division (enterprise systems group).  H This newly formed organization, which was created to better leverage theC power of HP's portfolio serving the consumer and small and mid-size F business markets will bring HP's renowned enterprise calibre sales andC support to consumer products and provide unparralleled personalised H contact with customers, giving HP a significant competitive advantage inC the industry. "Mr Gorham's experience with with enterprise customerrM relationship  is exactly what we needed for this new division" Mr Joshi said.a  B A large number of HP sales and service employees who are currently@ underused due to outsourcing to India will be redeployed to thisC division and work from home and their cars, greatly reducing costlyiE office space requirements. Each representative will combine sales andcF service experience, allowing consumers to have single contact with HP.G "By visiting each household on a weekly basis, our representatives will E be able to ensure our customers are perfectly happy with our productssH and supply ink and other consumables on a timely basis, saving customersE time an ensuring they buy quality HP products. By combining sales andsE delivery, HP will be able to be even more efficient than competitors.l  D More importantly, this will be an unequaled support/service deliveryG organisation which will reach so many customers who would otherwise notlE call upn HP for support and service and thus open new markets for HP.lH And for many SOHO customers, having HP reps visit them regularly will beA a real time saver, and this will also allow HP representatives tof: provide information on new products for their home office.  C And this new home sales division also has the potential to sell itsvE services to other organisations such as AVON, the Church of Later DaymA Saints, Bible and Encyclopedia printers as well as vacuum cleanerBF manufacturers and ever perhaps the US Postal Service and thus generateH new revenus for HP.  HP will truly be able to offer one stop shopping atC home and generate new revenus by leveraging its sales force to sell + other organisation's products and services.D  ? And with frequent and personalized contacts with residents of agC neighbourhood, the HP representatives will be able to know who buys2H competitor's products  and may arrange for bad things to happen to these) people unless they switch to HP products.     G "We'll be able to get on site and personally help lonely housewifes wholE have problems with their computers and sell them extra ink cartidges,TH and Dell can't get anywhere near this level of personalised service with an 800 telephone number".   H "There is a huge untapped market in homes, and our new sales and supportH organisation aims to fully leverage this potential". Our representativesG will not only make sales, but also offer installation and configurationrD services, increasing yields, especially for low margin products. AndA many customers will greatly appreciate having someone come in andmG install our products in a truly plug and play basis. To this end, a NewsG York designer has been hired to design an uniform that will provide the G right image of what our door to door representatives can accomplish. ItiH is well known that lonely house wives greatly appreciate men in uniform,; such as those from FedEx or UPS and HP hopes to rival this.e  H The new sales organisation will be setup over the next few months with aH rigorous training program to ensure the sales force will be well trainedE on the product line as well as support of computers and printers. Itsn) slogan is rumoured to be "We do Windows".p  H In a related news, HP is announcing it will start marketing inks for theH growing tatoo industry. As with its printer inks, having an undocumentedE expiry date on inks will result in customers having to go back to get G their tatoos redone every 4 years, increasing consumption of tatoo inks  and thus profits for HP.     About HP  G HP is an ink technology solutions provider to consumers, businesses and0= mental institutions globally. The company's offerings span ITeA infrastructure, global services, business and home computing, andrH imaging and printing. For the four  fiscal quarters ended Jan. 31, 2005,B HP revenue totaled $81.8 billion. More information about HP (NYSE,0 Nasdaq:  HPQ) is available at http://www.hp.com.      C This news release contains diagonal-looking statements that involvetA risks and calamitiess, as well as  assumptions that, if they evereD materialize or prove incorrect, could cause the universe to collapseH onto itself. All statements other than statements of historical fact areE statements that could be deemed fantasy-looking statements, includingpG the expected ink development, performance or rankings of contestants in F wet t-shirt contests; statements of religious faith or belief; and anyA statement of assumptions underlying any of the foregoing.  Risks,wE uncertainties and assumptions include the assumption, uncertainty and0G risk acceptance of employees and their services and other risks such asiF social diseases HP employee may knowingly transfer to customers, risksH of unwanted pregnancy , marital infidelity or dog bites  and indigestionF described from time to time in HP's Securities and Exchange CommissionF reports,  including but not limited to HP's Annual Report on Form 10-KF for the fiscal year ended Oct. 31, 2004. HP assumes  no obligation and; does not intend to update these forward-looking statements.    ------------------------------   Date: 01 Apr 2005 09:44:30 GMT$ From: "Doc." <doc@openvms-rocks.com>> Subject: Re: HP names Mark Gorham as VP of home sales division7 Message-ID: <Xns962B779397325dcovmsrox@212.100.160.126>s  E %NEWS-I-NEWMSG, JF Mezei wrote in news:424D11C3.89986DD9@teksavvy.comh   <snip>  8 Not bad, your disclaimer reminded me of the following...  G > Due to a physicist loosing a court case, the following warnings must m! > now be added to all products...t >fE >  NOTICE: Due To Its Mass, This Product Warps Space and Time in Its s > Vicinity.o >aF >  WARNING: This Product Attracts Every Other Object in the universe, > > Including the Products of Other Manufacturers, with a Force I > Proportional to the Product of the Masses Divided by the Square of the 0 > Distance Between Them. >eJ >  CAUTION: The Mass of This Product Contains the Energy Equivalent of 85 I > Million Tons of TNT per Net Ounce of Weight. The Manufacturer warrants eA > that this product is to be used only as matter and will not be oB > responsible for injury or damage if it is converted into energy. >KG >  HANDLE WITH CARE: This Product Contains Minute Electrically Charged VI > Particles Moving at Velocities in Excess of Five Hundred Million Miles w > Per Hour.t >/I >  CONSUMER NOTICE: Due to the "Uncertainty Principle," it is impossible aJ > for the User to know precisely and simultaneously where this product is $ > located and how fast it is moving. > I >  ADVISORY: There is an Extremely Remote Chance That, Through a Process $J > Known as "Tunneling," This Product May Spontaneously Disappear from Its D > Present Location and Reappear at Any Other Place in the Universe, C > Including Your Neighbor's Domicile. The Manufacturer Will Not Be a> > Responsible for Any Damage or Inconvenience That May Result. >nD >  READ THIS BEFORE OPENING PACKAGE: According to Certain Suggested > > Versions of the Grand Unified Theory, the Primary Particles J > Constituting this Product May Decay to Nothingness Within the Next Four  > Hundred Million Years. > @ >  THIS PRODUCT IS 100% MATTER: In the Unlikely Event That This D > Merchandise Should Contact Antimatter in Any Form, a Catastrophic I > Explosion Will Result. The Manufacturer cannot be held responsible for i > resulting injury or damages. >.E >  PUBLIC NOTICE AS REQUIRED BY LAW: Any Use of This Product, in Any 4G > Manner Whatsoever, Will Increase the Aggregate Amount of Disorder in VI > the Universe. Although No Liability Is Assumed Herein, the Consumer Is gD > Warned That This Process Will Ultimately Lead to a state of "Warm  > Death" of the Universe.d >iJ >  NOTE: The Most Fundamental Particles in This Product Are Held Together F > by a "Gluing" Force About Which Little is Currently Known and Whose D > Adhesive Power, therefore, Can Not Be Guaranteed Indefinitely. No F > responsibility is therefore assumed for the structural integrity of  > this product.O >VD >  ATTENTION: Notwithstanding Any Listing of Product Contents Found H > Hereupon, the Consumer is Advised That This Product Actually Consists   > of 99.9999999999% Empty Space. >rB >  NEW GRAND UNIFIED THEORY DISCLAIMER: While the Manufacturer is J > Technically Entitled to Claim That This Product Is Ten-Dimensional, the J > Consumer Is Reminded That This Confers No Legal Rights Above and Beyond E > Those Applicable to Three-Dimensional Objects, Since the Seven New sJ > Dimensions Are "Rolled Up" into Such a Small "Area" That They Cannot Be  > Detected.i >wA >  PLEASE NOTE: Some Quantum Physics Theories Suggest That, When  E > Unobserved, This Product May Cease to Exist or May Exist Only in a wG > Vague and Undetermined State. Therefore all warranties are in effect nE > only while this product is under the direct observation of a human a > being. > E >  COMPONENT EQUIVALENCY NOTICE: The Subatomic Particles (Electrons, vG > Protons, etc.) Comprising This Product Are Exactly the Same in Every R< > Measurable Respect as Those Used in the Products of Other E > Manufacturers, and Competitors' Claims to the Contrary are neither r > Justified nor Legitimate.s > I >  HEALTH WARNING: Care Should Be Taken When Lifting This Product, Since  J > Its Mass, and Thus Its Weight, Is Dependent on Its Velocity Relative to H > the User. The manufacturer cannot be held liable for injury or damage , > resulting from relativistic mass increase. >7J >  IMPORTANT NOTICE TO PURCHASERS: The Entire Physical Universe,Including H > This Product, May One Day Collapse Back into an Infinitesimally Small I > Space. Should Another Universe Subsequently Reemerge, the Existence of tI > This Product in That Universe, and its performance and suitability for p% > any purpose, Cannot Be Guaranteed.       Doc. -- hG OpenVMS:     Eight out of ten hackers prefer *other* operating systems.dG http://www.openvms-rocks.com    Deathrow Public-Access OpenVMS Cluster.p   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Apr 2005 00:23:32 -0800  From: martin.moser@gmx.dei. Subject: Lantronix Netzkerte in Alphaserver400= Message-ID: <35ffd732.0504010023.55727b55@posting.google.com>    Hallo ! > Ich habe eine Lantronix Netzkarte LFA-PT (100MBit TP) in einem AlphaServer400.=E Die Kerte ist mit show config noicht als Ethernetdevice ewa0 zu sehen_- und daher auch im OpenVMS nicht zu verwenden.o Sichtbar ist nur C' Bus: 00 SLot: 11 Vendor: 1011 Device: 9/  A Muss ich wirklich eine DExxx Karte besorgen oder kann ich die LFA2 verwqenden ?3 Unter Wnt 4.0 hat das Ding problemlos funktioniert._   mfg  Martin Moser   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 19:08:47 +0200w From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>2 Subject: Re: Lantronix Netzkerte in Alphaserver4002 Message-ID: <d2jv74$35k$1@news1.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>  L Auch wenn show config die Karte nicht sieht, koente VMS die Karte sehr wohl G verwenden wenn es nur einen treiber gab. Der gibt es aber leider nicht.s    N In sys$system:sys$config.dat kann man lesen welche Karten unterstutzt werden. M Zwar sind die daten vielleicht etwas schwerig zu lesen, aber dennoch. NICHTS /= AENDERN bitte, sonst booted das system vielleicht nicht mehr.    martin.moser@gmx.de wrote:	 > Hallo !i@ > Ich habe eine Lantronix Netzkarte LFA-PT (100MBit TP) in einem > AlphaServer400.0G > Die Kerte ist mit show config noicht als Ethernetdevice ewa0 zu sehen:/ > und daher auch im OpenVMS nicht zu verwenden.1 > Sichtbar ist nur 0) > Bus: 00 SLot: 11 Vendor: 1011 Device: 9o > C > Muss ich wirklich eine DExxx Karte besorgen oder kann ich die LFA  > verwqenden ?5 > Unter Wnt 4.0 hat das Ding problemlos funktioniert.t >  > mfgV > Martin Moser   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 09:20:59 -0800i# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>o& Subject: Mark Hurd from NCR new HP CEO( Message-ID: <opsoes49cvzgicya@hyrrokkin>   I may have already posted this   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 02:52:23 -0500s' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>h3 Subject: Re: New HP CEO Announced - Mark Hurd (NCR)n0 Message-ID: <114puqvr1rahm3e@corp.supernews.com>   JF Mezei wrote:t > Dave Froble wrote: > G >>I'm thinking something along the lines talking about the strengths ofbJ >>VMS, and supporting it with the recent experience of Bill Gunshannon andF >>the DOD contract instructor.  If HP was promoting VMS, the guy wouldF >>have had much less acceptance of what he said, and would have lookedG >>more like someone with an anti-VMS agenda, not a knowledgable expert.l >  >  > G > But it is also important to show what was done wrong about VMS in thenH > past so that Hurd 1-fixes the things 2-don't repeat the same mistakes. > I > It isn't a question of stating doom and gloom to Hurd. It is a questioniH > of avoiding doom and gloom in case folks like Winkler and Stallard get > to Hurd before we do.u > C > And yes, it is important to discredit Stallard and Winkler. FolksoF > internally will not do that, but as customers, we must tell Hurd howI > their public statements have hurt HP's credibility when it comes to itstJ > promises about VMS and how the lack of trust in the vendor's promises is > making things worse.  4 You have a valid point, which I feel has some merit.  / You still don't get anywhere by bashing others.0  G A well thought out piece could acknowledge that not everyone is of the oI same mind on issues, such as Operating Systems.  Then go on to point out oD the strengths of VMS, things like the profits vs revenue ratios and I such, the ongoing maintenance, etc.  Say that all may have strengths and iA weaknesses, but put some weight on margins in addition to volume.n  C I feel that if he cannot be brought to understand that his 'better yI mousetrap' needs marketing in order for it to best serve him, then we're r in for more of the same.  I At the least, it may help to challenge him to review some 'real' numbers gI on the profitability of VMS.  I'm enough of a realist to understand that d: numbers can be cooked to reflect whatever the cook wishes.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 05:48:17 -0500t' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com>r/ Subject: New HP CEO Announced - Mark Hurd (NCR)aR Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB595499@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   All,  = The readers of this list might be interested in the followingr  announcement and press articles:  
 News.com -H http://news.com.com/At+HP%2C+new+chief%2C+new+era/2009-7341_3-5645613.ht ml?tag=3Dnefd.lede   Official release:cJ http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/index.html?mtxs=3Dcorp&mtxb=3D3&mtxl=3D= 4o  E HP today announced that its board of directors has named Mark Hurd tot= serve as the company's chief executive officer and president.   F Hurd, 48, has served since March 2003 as president and chief executiveG officer of NCR Corp. (NYSE: NCR), where he has spent his 25-year careeraD in a range of general management, operations and sales and marketingH positions. Prior to his current responsibilities, he was NCR's presidentG and chief operating officer, responsible for driving the performance ofrF the company's five business units. Previously, Hurd served three yearsB as president and chief operating officer of the company's TeradataA division, which he built to be a global leader in enterprise datatD warehousing, analytic applications and data warehousing services.=20  B Patricia Dunn, HP's non-executive chairman, said that the HP boardE unanimously selected Hurd based on his track record leading a complex-H organization, as well as his strong executive and personal qualities.=20  G "Our search for a new leader to return HP to sustained success has beenoE focused and thorough," said Dunn. "A screening team of board members, G consisting of myself, Jay Keyworth and Tom Perkins, established a broad:= field of candidates and interviewed many individuals. We thendH recommended the strongest contenders to the board as finalists. Each was@ interviewed by the entire board, and Mark was our top choice.=20  G "Mark came to our attention because of his strong execution skills, hisdC proven ability to lead top performing teams and his track record inpB driving shareholder value. He demonstrated these skills by turningH around NCR, which, while smaller than HP, is a complex organization withH multiple business segments. As we got to know Mark, we were impressed byE his emphasis on developing internal talent while reaching outside for C new skills, his understanding of the role of culture in a company'sfE success and his personal integrity. Additionally, his straightforwardnA style has won the respect of employees, customers and investors,"h continued Dunn.=20  B Hurd said, "HP is one of the world's great companies, with a proudH history of innovation, outstanding talent and enviable positions in manyA of its product lines and services. It's a great honor to join itsiE leadership team and have the opportunity to build on its success."=20n  C Hurd will take up his new duties on April 1 and join HP's board. He D succeeds Robert Wayman, a 36-year company veteran who has been chiefB financial officer since 1984 and was named interim chief executiveE officer in February 2005. Wayman, 59, will remain CFO and continue tol  serve as a member of HP's board.  G A brief biography is below. Details of Hurd's compensation package wille be disclosed shortly.=20  C More information and photos are available in an online press kit at D http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press_kits/2005/ceo/index.html.=20  F On Wednesday, HP will host a financial analyst call and separate press< conference to discuss the appointment. Details are below:=20  , Financial analyst conference call details=20  F This call will include a question and answer session for the financialE analysts. Members of the media, industry analysts and others may joino@ the call in listen-only mode on the following dial-in number.=20  0 When: Wednesday, March 30, 9 a.m. EST/6 a.m. PST  " Listen-only: U.S.: +1 800 599 9829 International: +1 617 847 8703 Participant passcode: 21946516  B Replay: A replay of the event will be available for 30 days at:=20 U.S.: +1 888 286 8010t International: +1 617 801 6888 Passcode: 65029452   Press conference details  @ This press conference is for the members of the media and can be? attended in person, via webcast or through a dial-in number.=20   1 When: Wednesday, March 30, 1 p.m. EST/10 a.m. PST-  H Where: HP Auditorium located at HP Headquarters, 3000 Hanover St., Bldg.  20A, Palo Alto, CA 94304-1112=20  E URL: http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press_kits/2005/ceo/index.htmld  @ Dial-in: U.S.: +1 800 477 3757 International: +1 706 634 1337=20  2 Replay: A replay of the event will be available atD http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press_kits/2005/ceo/index.html and2 will remain available for approximately two weeks.   Mark Hurd biography=20  H Mark Hurd was named chief executive officer and president of HP on MarchF 29, 2005. The appointment is effective April 1, when he will also join! the company's board of directors.   H Hurd previously spent 25 years at NCR Corp., culminating in his two-yearC tenure as chief executive officer and president. His leadership was E marked by successful efforts to improve operating efficiency, bolstereF the position of NCR's product line and build a strong leadership team.H In fiscal 2004, NCR generated revenue of $6.0 billion, up 7 percent fromG a year earlier, and net income rose nearly fivefold to $290 million.=20   @ Hurd was named president of NCR in 2001 and was given additionalF responsibilities as chief operating officer in 2002. Prior to that, heD spent three years as head of the company's Teradata data-warehousingG division. Earlier, he held a variety of general management, operations,0F and sales and marketing roles. Hurd began his career at NCR as a field salesman in 1980.n  G Hurd is a member of the Computer Systems Policy Project, a coalition ofhE chairmen and chief executive officers of IT companies, which developsdH and advocates public policy positions on technology and trade issues.=20  E He earned a bachelor's degree in business administration in 1979 froms Baylor University.=20t   About HP  B HP is a technology solutions provider to consumers, businesses andF institutions globally. The company's offerings span IT infrastructure,G global services, business and home computing, and imaging and printing.eD For the four fiscal quarters ended Jan. 31, 2005, HP revenue totaled? $81.8 billion. More information about HP (NYSE, Nasdaq: HPQ) ise available at http://www.hp.com.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 15:30:09 +0100x- From: Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com> 3 Subject: Re: New HP CEO Announced - Mark Hurd (NCR)., Message-ID: <3avrkoF69s8urU1@individual.net>   Soterro wrote: > John Smith wrote:  > I >> According to Associated Press, Hurd has a reputation as a cost-cutter.r- >> Wonder what he'll cut first - PC's or VMS?u >  > < > It takes a magician to get the HP PC division competitive.* > But his decision might be to cut both...  B Ah, but if he's a magician, any attempts to cut anything (in half)@ will be purely an illusion ... and will likely fool the Wall St.& Casinos (at least for a little while).   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 16:28:33 +0200 ! From: Soterro <soterroatyahoocom>d3 Subject: Re: New HP CEO Announced - Mark Hurd (NCR) : Message-ID: <424ab6d0$0$6568$4d4ef98e@read.news.ch.uu.net>   John Smith wrote:iH > According to Associated Press, Hurd has a reputation as a cost-cutter., > Wonder what he'll cut first - PC's or VMS?  : It takes a magician to get the HP PC division competitive.( But his decision might be to cut both...   Sg   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Mar 2005 10:27:15 -0800* From: "Alan Greig" <greigaln@netscape.net>3 Subject: Re: New HP CEO Announced - Mark Hurd (NCR) C Message-ID: <1112207235.251639.236170@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>w   Soterro wrote: > John Smith wrote:n= > > According to Associated Press, Hurd has a reputation as aM cost-cutter.. > > Wonder what he'll cut first - PC's or VMS? >-< > It takes a magician to get the HP PC division competitive.* > But his decision might be to cut both...   I remember when NCR made PCs...s   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 10:23:07 -0800e# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>y3 Subject: Re: New HP CEO Announced - Mark Hurd (NCR)r( Message-ID: <opsogqotwuzgicya@hyrrokkin>  H On 30 Mar 2005 10:27:15 -0800, Alan Greig <greigaln@netscape.net> wrote:   >  > Soterro wrote: >> John Smith wrote:> >> > According to Associated Press, Hurd has a reputation as a > cost-cutter./ >> > Wonder what he'll cut first - PC's or VMS?  >>= >> It takes a magician to get the HP PC division competitive.m+ >> But his decision might be to cut both...P >e! > I remember when NCR made PCs...a >e   OK, I'll ask, Does NCR use VMS?e   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Mar 2005 11:20:33 -0800* From: "Alan Greig" <greigaln@netscape.net>3 Subject: Re: New HP CEO Announced - Mark Hurd (NCR)kB Message-ID: <1112210432.966436.42160@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>   Tom Linden wrote:    >l! > OK, I'll ask, Does NCR use VMS?r  C Years ago they did. But that was mainly VAXstations and 11/780s etcSF running CAD/CAM applications - a market DEC withdrew VMS from about 15F years ago. May have been some admin apps but most of that ran on NCR'sG own hardware. I don't think they have any VMS these days. NCRs main ATM-E design and manufacturing plant (Dundee, Scotland) has no VMS left andr hasn't for many years. -- @
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 15:43:12 -0500s- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>43 Subject: Re: New HP CEO Announced - Mark Hurd (NCR)uB Message-ID: <1112215396.400bdb75b5eeb161da2bf000db71fe4e@teranews>   Alan Greig wrote:v> > > It takes a magician to get the HP PC division competitive., > > But his decision might be to cut both... > ! > I remember when NCR made PCs...Q  G As long as one US company (Dell) is able to compete against the chinesesB in many markets, it means that HP *should* also be able to compete against the chinese.  G Where there may be a problem is if the chinese are so much cheaper that F they can afford the "channel " overhead and still compete against DellE while HP can't have both the channel and be competitive.  And this isiG when HP must decide to ditch the "channel" and go direct sales, or justrG quit the PC business alltogether because it can't make money out of it.g  < Maybe HP could buy FedEx and have its own really efffficient distribution channel :-)  G Also important at this stage is the real strategic stuff. For instance,tB if HP intends to ditch IA64 and go 8086 from Intel and/or AMD, itsD enterprise division would then become all 8086 based. How would thisF affect its desktops ? Consider the situation when VMS runs on the 8086G in 2007/2008. It will then be able to run on many desktop machines withtF the right configs.  So having the ability to build 8086 based desktops will be important.  F Consider IBM: it produces Power based desktops (as does Apple). So IBMD can afford to ditch 8086 based desktops because its own products useG Power. But for HP, if its own products use the 8086, then it may not be 3 able to completely ditch the 8086 desktop business.0  F But like IBM has done in the past decade, it can de-emphasise the moreE commodity consumer PCs and focus on enterprise market which generates@B support business and is willing to pay just a few more dollars for better components.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 16:15:39 -0500s# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>a3 Subject: Re: New HP CEO Announced - Mark Hurd (NCR) , Message-ID: <btSdncPDCKhji9bfRVn-tg@igs.net>   JF Mezei wrote:s > Alan Greig wrote: > >>> It takes a magician to get the HP PC division competitive., >>> But his decision might be to cut both... >>" >> I remember when NCR made PCs... >tA > As long as one US company (Dell) is able to compete against theyD > chinese in many markets, it means that HP *should* also be able to > compete against the chinese. >aD > Where there may be a problem is if the chinese are so much cheaper@ > that they can afford the "channel " overhead and still competeG > against Dell while HP can't have both the channel and be competitive.<F > And this is when HP must decide to ditch the "channel" and go directG > sales, or just quit the PC business alltogether because it can't makee > money out of it. >i> > Maybe HP could buy FedEx and have its own really efffficient > distribution channel :-)     Wrong idea JF.  L HP should spin everything non-printing and imaging into a new company calledE Digital Equipment Corporation. This company should then takeover AMD.   K The printing and imaging company, named Hewlett Packard, should then become J vertically integrated by purchasing Weyerhauser for the forestry assets toI make paper from, and Archer Daniels Midland for the soy farms to make ink H from. Of course all the printer and camera R&D will be done in Taiwan orK China and the cameras designed by Pentax, and all manufactured in Malaysia, % China, Thailand, Singapore and India.:  F After a period of realignment of the US dollar, all the laid-off US HPK employees could be hired to staff call centers to field calls from users ine India and China.     --F OpenVMS - The never advertised operating system with the dwindling ISV base.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 17:06:25 -0500a) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca>13 Subject: Re: New HP CEO Announced - Mark Hurd (NCR) : Message-ID: <GpF2e.14059$w63.888262@news20.bellglobal.com>  2 "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> wrote in messageL news:FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB595499@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net... All,    D >Hurd will take up his new duties on April 1 and join HP's board. HeE >succeeds Robert Wayman, a 36-year company veteran who has been chief-C >financial officer since 1984 and was named interim chief executiveeF >officer in February 2005. Wayman, 59, will remain CFO and continue to! >serve as a member of HP's board.b   Takes over April 1st, eh?k  
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,o Ontario, Canada.8 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 19:39:10 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 3 Subject: Re: New HP CEO Announced - Mark Hurd (NCR)eB Message-ID: <1112229534.3a0ec412863b1d9dabb5fa7cc8350655@teranews>  T http://news.com.com/At+HP%2C+new+chief%2C+new+era/2009-7341_3-5645613.html?tag=st.rn  E The above has a list of articles about Hurd. Not sure what to make ofrJ him. Not Gerstner calibre, but seems to have a good head on his shoulders.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 23:13:02 -0500o- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>t3 Subject: Re: New HP CEO Announced - Mark Hurd (NCR)fB Message-ID: <1112242352.783b6fcbe201f8ec45af179199e63c80@teranews>  
 AEF wrote:F > Already with the gloom and doom. The guy hasn't even unpacked yet if > he's even that far!  > 5 > Do we really need the worst case scenarios already?n  
 Actually yes.H  @ When Hurd walks in, he will be like a very dry sponge soaking upG everything around him. An people like Stallard, Winkler who are not bigoF fans of VMS will have good opportunities to feel Hurd with their views of HP.  H So we must make sure that VMS is given a good honest picture to Hurd forH two main reasons: give VMS a chance to be taken seriously, and secondly,H to discredit those folks like Winkler and Stallard who don't see VMS has( having potential for growth and profits.  H Hurd has mentioned that he looks forwards to hearing from customers.  An4 opportunity exists, and we must not let this one go.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 11:44:43 +0200k& From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@decus.ch>3 Subject: Re: New HP CEO Announced - Mark Hurd (NCR)a, Message-ID: <3b1v4bF6g784eU1@individual.net>   JF Mezei wrote:l > Alan Greig wrote:t > = >>>It takes a magician to get the HP PC division competitive.v+ >>>But his decision might be to cut both...5 >>! >>I remember when NCR made PCs.... >  > I > As long as one US company (Dell) is able to compete against the chinese D > in many markets, it means that HP *should* also be able to compete > against the chinese. >   I But over on comp.sys.mac.system folks are reporting that their Apple kit , is already coming from China.s   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 11:47:35 +0200 & From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@decus.ch>3 Subject: Re: New HP CEO Announced - Mark Hurd (NCR) , Message-ID: <3b1v9nF6g784eU2@individual.net>   Neil Rieck wrote:W  4 > "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> wrote in messageN > news:FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB595499@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net... > All, >  >  > E >>Hurd will take up his new duties on April 1 and join HP's board. He F >>succeeds Robert Wayman, a 36-year company veteran who has been chiefD >>financial officer since 1984 and was named interim chief executiveG >>officer in February 2005. Wayman, 59, will remain CFO and continue tok" >>serve as a member of HP's board. >  >  > Takes over April 1st, eh?s >    Sorry, can't resist...  H "APRIL 1.  This is the day upon which we are reminded of what we are on ( the other three hundred and sixty-four."   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 08:26:07 -0500m# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>V3 Subject: Re: New HP CEO Announced - Mark Hurd (NCR)D, Message-ID: <OcKdndIeKZ7uZ9bfRVn-2A@igs.net>   Paul Sture wrote:  > Neil Rieck wrote:t >l5 >> "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> wrote in message  >>L news:FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB595499@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net... >> All,e >> >> >>G >>> Hurd will take up his new duties on April 1 and join HP's board. HeoH >>> succeeds Robert Wayman, a 36-year company veteran who has been chiefF >>> financial officer since 1984 and was named interim chief executiveF >>> officer in February 2005. Wayman, 59, will remain CFO and continue' >>> to serve as a member of HP's board.e >> >> >> Takes over April 1st, eh? >> >s > Sorry, can't resist... >mF > "APRIL 1.  This is the day upon which we are reminded of what we are- > on the other three hundred and sixty-four."r    L Ken Farmer's going to have to be on his toes tomorrow, isn't he JF?  :-) :-)   --F OpenVMS - The never advertised operating system with the dwindling ISV base.p   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Mar 2005 06:57:18 -0800$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>3 Subject: Re: New HP CEO Announced - Mark Hurd (NCR)rC Message-ID: <1112281038.369928.126780@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    JF Mezei wrote:a > AEF wrote:E > > Already with the gloom and doom. The guy hasn't even unpacked yete if > > he's even that far!l > >g7 > > Do we really need the worst case scenarios already?e >  > Actually yes.e   Actually**2, no.   >tB > When Hurd walks in, he will be like a very dry sponge soaking upE > everything around him. An people like Stallard, Winkler who are not  biggB > fans of VMS will have good opportunities to feel Hurd with their viewse > of HP.  8 And how does John Smith's doom and gloom statement help?   >sF > So we must make sure that VMS is given a good honest picture to Hurd forr@ > two main reasons: give VMS a chance to be taken seriously, and	 secondly,uF > to discredit those folks like Winkler and Stallard who don't see VMS hasy* > having potential for growth and profits.  8 And how does John Smith's doom and gloom statement help?  F > Hurd has mentioned that he looks forwards to hearing from customers. An6 > opportunity exists, and we must not let this one go.  8 And how does John Smith's doom and gloom statement help?  F So the first thing he hears from cov is "Hmmm, will he cut PC's or VMSC first?" Yeah, that puts VMS, and us, in a good light. Why don't youoG just recommmend to Mr. Hurd to kill VMS outright? If that's what you'reeG trying to do to save it, recommend that he do it! Who better to kill itn7 than the new CEO? Then it will be saved. (Yeah, right!)    ;-)v   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 11:10:26 -0500 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> 3 Subject: Re: New HP CEO Announced - Mark Hurd (NCR) , Message-ID: <VPidnbuJOdxrvdHfRVn-2A@igs.net>  
 AEF wrote: > JF Mezei wrote:o
 >> AEF wrote: H >>> Already with the gloom and doom. The guy hasn't even unpacked yet if >>> he's even that far!e >>>m7 >>> Do we really need the worst case scenarios already?t >> >> Actually yes. >e > Actually**2, no. >v >>C >> When Hurd walks in, he will be like a very dry sponge soaking upiF >> everything around him. An people like Stallard, Winkler who are notG >> big fans of VMS will have good opportunities to feel Hurd with theirl >> views of HP.t > : > And how does John Smith's doom and gloom statement help? >  >>G >> So we must make sure that VMS is given a good honest picture to HurdnE >> for two main reasons: give VMS a chance to be taken seriously, and C >> secondly, to discredit those folks like Winkler and Stallard whoh= >> don't see VMS has having potential for growth and profits.e >t: > And how does John Smith's doom and gloom statement help? >eG >> Hurd has mentioned that he looks forwards to hearing from customers. : >> An opportunity exists, and we must not let this one go. >s: > And how does John Smith's doom and gloom statement help? > H > So the first thing he hears from cov is "Hmmm, will he cut PC's or VMSE > first?" Yeah, that puts VMS, and us, in a good light. Why don't you"B > just recommmend to Mr. Hurd to kill VMS outright? If that's whatE > you're trying to do to save it, recommend that he do it! Who betternD > to kill it than the new CEO? Then it will be saved. (Yeah, right!)    = My statemet was not doom & gloom.....it's a real possibility.c  E I don't know about you but I have been composing a letter to Mr. HurdPK requesting that he take a serious look at VMS and ensuring that the product F is actively and widely promoted in the marketplace - he knows from hisH Teradata experience that Windows isn't the way of the whole world and (I2 hope) that he understands that Linux isn't either.  G Despite his reputation (via Associated press) as a cost-cutter, he also I seems to be far more customer focused than Ms. Agility ever was, and thatoK bodes well for VMS as long as we, the VMS community, tell him our concerns.eL If we rely on the likes of Winkler to inform him of our needs - well, that'sK like the misinformed leading the uninformed - and no good can come of that.e  G However you must also keep in mind what Patricia Dunn, acting CEO until K tomorrow, has said in the past couple of days.....basically that no options L will be left unexamined....and by definition that includes spinoffs, exitingG markets, whatever....  So it is conceivable that PC's and/or enterpriseR: computing could be sold/closed or emphasized/deemphasized.  F They tried it carly(tm)'s way....maybe they're swinging back to Walter Hewlett's way.  K We're back at the alter with the priest asking if anyone has an opinion. Ifu9 you have something to say, write Hurd and the BoD *soon*.d  C A couple of hundred VMS well reasoned letters -one from each of ouroK companies - stating why we rely on VMS, what can be done to improve the VMS0A market, etc... can go a long way at this stage of the game. FirstiH impressions are important, and while the discussions that go on in c.o.vI sometimes become heated, they are not frequented by the likes of Hurd, so" write a letter to him.     Hurd7 http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/execteam/email/hurd/index.htmle   BoDD6 http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/execteam/email/bod/index.html    
 Snail Mail
 ---------- Hewlett-Packard Companyk 3000 Hanover Street  Palo Alto, CA 94304-1185 USA         --F OpenVMS - The never advertised operating system with the dwindling ISV base.r   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 15:47:16 GMTt6 From: "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@NOSPAM.spyderbyte.com>3 Subject: Re: New HP CEO Announced - Mark Hurd (NCR) < Message-ID: <8YU2e.5911$9v2.189411@twister.southeast.rr.com>  / "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message  & news:OcKdndIeKZ7uZ9bfRVn-2A@igs.net... > Paul Sture wrote:i >> Neil Rieck wrote: >>6 >>> "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> wrote in message >>>vN > news:FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB595499@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net... >>> All, >>>t >>>  >>>cH >>>> Hurd will take up his new duties on April 1 and join HP's board. HeI >>>> succeeds Robert Wayman, a 36-year company veteran who has been chiefrG >>>> financial officer since 1984 and was named interim chief executiveiG >>>> officer in February 2005. Wayman, 59, will remain CFO and continueU( >>>> to serve as a member of HP's board. >>>  >>>  >>> Takes over April 1st, eh?  >>>p >> >> Sorry, can't resist...r >>G >> "APRIL 1.  This is the day upon which we are reminded of what we aree. >> on the other three hundred and sixty-four." >o >sK > Ken Farmer's going to have to be on his toes tomorrow, isn't he JF?  :-)   > :-)s    1 I'm not going to post a single item tomorrow.  :)v     Ken    OpenVMS.orgN% _____________________________________l Kenneth R. Farmer <><l& SpyderByte: http://www.SpyderByte.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 14:43:46 -0500u- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>y3 Subject: Re: New HP CEO Announced - Mark Hurd (NCR) B Message-ID: <1112298222.8f9c72223cd17a21964ab14cca7e808c@teranews>   John Smith wrote:D  9 > http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/execteam/email/hurd/index.htmla >  > BoDd8 > http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/execteam/email/bod/index.html  E A stupid web form is not the way to build a proper and serious email.u   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 15:26:38 -0500o' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>e3 Subject: Re: New HP CEO Announced - Mark Hurd (NCR)n0 Message-ID: <114oml6ohhebp9b@corp.supernews.com>   JF Mezei wrote:u > AEF wrote: > F >>Already with the gloom and doom. The guy hasn't even unpacked yet if >>he's even that far!  >>5 >>Do we really need the worst case scenarios already?e >  >  > Actually yes.i   No, we definitely do not!i  B > When Hurd walks in, he will be like a very dry sponge soaking upI > everything around him. An people like Stallard, Winkler who are not big H > fans of VMS will have good opportunities to feel Hurd with their views > of HP.  C The guy has replaced someone who got herself fired.  Unless he's a hF complete idiot, he'll realize that keeping things as-is will probably F lead him to the same fate.  Well, for some the golden parachute might E just be great, but people who raise to such levels do so at least as  > much, if not more, due to ego and such, rather than the money.  > He might be receptive to well thought out reasonable comments.  I If it was me, and a bunch of doom & gloom types started up, I'd probably tG relagate them to 'lunatic fringe' and spend time with the well thought T out and reasonable.   J > So we must make sure that VMS is given a good honest picture to Hurd forJ > two main reasons: give VMS a chance to be taken seriously, and secondly,J > to discredit those folks like Winkler and Stallard who don't see VMS has* > having potential for growth and profits.  F You don't win any points for attacking anyone else.  Any points to be H effectively made will be positive arguments for what VMS can do to make  him look good.  J > Hurd has mentioned that he looks forwards to hearing from customers.  An6 > opportunity exists, and we must not let this one go.  : Yes, an opportunity.  Don't blow it with the doom & gloom.  F I'm thinking something along the lines talking about the strengths of I VMS, and supporting it with the recent experience of Bill Gunshannon and eE the DOD contract instructor.  If HP was promoting VMS, the guy would RE have had much less acceptance of what he said, and would have looked nE more like someone with an anti-VMS agenda, not a knowledgable expert.t  H I'm still (always) thinking about the fact that VMS would not have been I affected by even one virus/trojan/worm that has plagued the internet for o the last 10 years.   Dave   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 16:50:59 -0500e- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>P3 Subject: Re: New HP CEO Announced - Mark Hurd (NCR)-, Message-ID: <424C70B4.DB73C63B@teksavvy.com>   Dave Froble wrote:G > I'm thinking something along the lines talking about the strengths ofdJ > VMS, and supporting it with the recent experience of Bill Gunshannon andF > the DOD contract instructor.  If HP was promoting VMS, the guy wouldF > have had much less acceptance of what he said, and would have lookedG > more like someone with an anti-VMS agenda, not a knowledgable expert.     E But it is also important to show what was done wrong about VMS in thedF past so that Hurd 1-fixes the things 2-don't repeat the same mistakes.  G It isn't a question of stating doom and gloom to Hurd. It is a question F of avoiding doom and gloom in case folks like Winkler and Stallard get to Hurd before we do.N  A And yes, it is important to discredit Stallard and Winkler. Folks.D internally will not do that, but as customers, we must tell Hurd howG their public statements have hurt HP's credibility when it comes to itsaH promises about VMS and how the lack of trust in the vendor's promises is making things worse.   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Mar 2005 18:24:44 -0800$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>3 Subject: Re: New HP CEO Announced - Mark Hurd (NCR)mC Message-ID: <1112322284.064764.159230@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>F   John Smith wrote:e > AEF wrote: > > JF Mezei wrote:t > >> AEF wrote:nG > >>> Already with the gloom and doom. The guy hasn't even unpacked yet  if > >>> he's even that far!r > >>>r9 > >>> Do we really need the worst case scenarios already?i > >> > >> Actually yes. > >s > > Actually**2, no. > >  > >>E > >> When Hurd walks in, he will be like a very dry sponge soaking up D > >> everything around him. An people like Stallard, Winkler who are notaC > >> big fans of VMS will have good opportunities to feel Hurd with: theiru > >> views of HP.C > >e< > > And how does John Smith's doom and gloom statement help? > >  > >>D > >> So we must make sure that VMS is given a good honest picture to HurdG > >> for two main reasons: give VMS a chance to be taken seriously, andeE > >> secondly, to discredit those folks like Winkler and Stallard who ? > >> don't see VMS has having potential for growth and profits.t > >a< > > And how does John Smith's doom and gloom statement help? > >n> > >> Hurd has mentioned that he looks forwards to hearing from
 customers.< > >> An opportunity exists, and we must not let this one go. > > < > > And how does John Smith's doom and gloom statement help? > > F > > So the first thing he hears from cov is "Hmmm, will he cut PC's or VMSuG > > first?" Yeah, that puts VMS, and us, in a good light. Why don't youaD > > just recommmend to Mr. Hurd to kill VMS outright? If that's whatG > > you're trying to do to save it, recommend that he do it! Who bettertF > > to kill it than the new CEO? Then it will be saved. (Yeah, right!) >g > ? > My statemet was not doom & gloom.....it's a real possibility.e > G > I don't know about you but I have been composing a letter to Mr. HurdmE > requesting that he take a serious look at VMS and ensuring that thee productwD > is actively and widely promoted in the marketplace - he knows from his G > Teradata experience that Windows isn't the way of the whole world andh (I4 > hope) that he understands that Linux isn't either. > D > Despite his reputation (via Associated press) as a cost-cutter, he alsoF > seems to be far more customer focused than Ms. Agility ever was, and thatC > bodes well for VMS as long as we, the VMS community, tell him ourn	 concerns.nG > If we rely on the likes of Winkler to inform him of our needs - well,a that'sG > like the misinformed leading the uninformed - and no good can come ofl that.f > C > However you must also keep in mind what Patricia Dunn, acting CEOm untilgE > tomorrow, has said in the past couple of days.....basically that nom optionstF > will be left unexamined....and by definition that includes spinoffs, exitingo> > markets, whatever....  So it is conceivable that PC's and/or
 enterprise< > computing could be sold/closed or emphasized/deemphasized. >-A > They tried it carly(tm)'s way....maybe they're swinging back toM Walter > Hewlett's way. >mA > We're back at the alter with the priest asking if anyone has anF opinion. If4; > you have something to say, write Hurd and the BoD *soon*., > E > A couple of hundred VMS well reasoned letters -one from each of oureE > companies - stating why we rely on VMS, what can be done to improvew the VMS+C > market, etc... can go a long way at this stage of the game. FirsteD > impressions are important, and while the discussions that go on in c.o.v=B > sometimes become heated, they are not frequented by the likes of Hurd, so > write a letter to him.    @ I'm all for all of this. What I was commenting on was your shortD immediate first response to the announcement: Hurd is a cost cutter, will it be PC's or VMS first.2  % Instead, why not something like this:a  E OK, we have a fresh start. Let's all write to Mr. Hurd, be polite andnE pleasant, and tell him how good VMS is, how much we customers want to,E see it grow with more apps, ISV's, etc., and most importantly, how its; will help HP make more profit and become a more world classdF corporation. (Profit isn't everything!) Remember: It is very importantC that we make the case that growing VMS will be very good for HP and  therefore for him.  D And what you wrote here is fine. But that's not what you started outC with! You simply started out with rapid fire doom and gloom which Ik$ find to be not very helpful at best.  E I am all for some positive action. I'm against quickie worst case onea# liner scenarios as an opening shot.s   Long live VMS!   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 09:09:29 -0500# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>w3 Subject: Re: New HP CEO Announced - Mark Hurd (NCR)c, Message-ID: <uaSdnc2Xc7SCy9DfRVn-sQ@igs.net>   Dave Froble wrote: > JF Mezei wrote:e >> Dave Froble wrote:l >>F >>> I'm thinking something along the lines talking about the strengths@ >>> of VMS, and supporting it with the recent experience of BillD >>> Gunshannon and the DOD contract instructor.  If HP was promotingE >>> VMS, the guy would have had much less acceptance of what he said, D >>> and would have looked more like someone with an anti-VMS agenda, >>> not a knowledgable expert. >> >> >>H >> But it is also important to show what was done wrong about VMS in the? >> past so that Hurd 1-fixes the things 2-don't repeat the sames >> mistakes. >>A >> It isn't a question of stating doom and gloom to Hurd. It is adE >> question of avoiding doom and gloom in case folks like Winkler ands% >> Stallard get to Hurd before we do.  >>D >> And yes, it is important to discredit Stallard and Winkler. FolksG >> internally will not do that, but as customers, we must tell Hurd how F >> their public statements have hurt HP's credibility when it comes toC >> its promises about VMS and how the lack of trust in the vendor's2# >> promises is making things worse.s > 6 > You have a valid point, which I feel has some merit. > 1 > You still don't get anywhere by bashing others.a >fH > A well thought out piece could acknowledge that not everyone is of theF > same mind on issues, such as Operating Systems.  Then go on to pointE > out the strengths of VMS, things like the profits vs revenue ratiosa@ > and such, the ongoing maintenance, etc.  Say that all may haveF > strengths and weaknesses, but put some weight on margins in addition > to volume.  K The only flaw in this strategy is that since the true P&L statement for theaI VMS group is not known, ie. how much from operating system licenses, fromsI layered products, support contracts, etc.... it is hard to be specific in L this regard. So any statement of 'fact' with respect to profitability has to0 be tempered with the understanding of the above.       --F OpenVMS - The never advertised operating system with the dwindling ISV base.,   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 11:18:54 -0500e' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>a3 Subject: Re: New HP CEO Announced - Mark Hurd (NCR)l0 Message-ID: <114qsgn5spaj97f@corp.supernews.com>   John Smith wrote:: > Dave Froble wrote: >  >>JF Mezei wrote:  >> >>>Dave Froble wrote:p >>>c >>>eF >>>>I'm thinking something along the lines talking about the strengths@ >>>>of VMS, and supporting it with the recent experience of BillD >>>>Gunshannon and the DOD contract instructor.  If HP was promotingE >>>>VMS, the guy would have had much less acceptance of what he said, D >>>>and would have looked more like someone with an anti-VMS agenda, >>>>not a knowledgable expert. >>>t >>>i >>> H >>>But it is also important to show what was done wrong about VMS in the? >>>past so that Hurd 1-fixes the things 2-don't repeat the samea >>>mistakes. >>>iA >>>It isn't a question of stating doom and gloom to Hurd. It is akE >>>question of avoiding doom and gloom in case folks like Winkler and9% >>>Stallard get to Hurd before we do.r >>> D >>>And yes, it is important to discredit Stallard and Winkler. FolksG >>>internally will not do that, but as customers, we must tell Hurd howaF >>>their public statements have hurt HP's credibility when it comes toC >>>its promises about VMS and how the lack of trust in the vendor'si# >>>promises is making things worse.a >>6 >>You have a valid point, which I feel has some merit. >>1 >>You still don't get anywhere by bashing others.  >>H >>A well thought out piece could acknowledge that not everyone is of theF >>same mind on issues, such as Operating Systems.  Then go on to pointE >>out the strengths of VMS, things like the profits vs revenue ratiosa@ >>and such, the ongoing maintenance, etc.  Say that all may haveF >>strengths and weaknesses, but put some weight on margins in addition >>to volume. >  > M > The only flaw in this strategy is that since the true P&L statement for theoK > VMS group is not known, ie. how much from operating system licenses, fromoK > layered products, support contracts, etc.... it is hard to be specific innN > this regard. So any statement of 'fact' with respect to profitability has to2 > be tempered with the understanding of the above.  H That's why I said that he should be challenged to find out the real VMS H numbers.  I'm figuring that if a CEO tells his people that he wants the D numbers to show how VMS is doing without anything else added in, it H would take a bold employee to try to give him anything else.  He'd have ) to be willing to put his job on the line.u   Dave   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 16:54:38 GMT-) From: jlsue <jeffls-delete@sbcglobal.net>:* Subject: Re: New smart use of computer....8 Message-ID: <n12j41ts641c3per3miq2a56sp2fkjkuau@4ax.com>  F On 28 Mar 2005 07:37:26 -0600, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote:  s >In article <1111797799.60624f208d078f5fdf833611066d46a8@teranews>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:'2 >> http://bicillin.media.mit.edu/clocky/index.html >> CC >> Worth a read. It is an alarm clock that jumps off your table and I >> repositiosn itself soemewhere in your bedroom after you've pressed the F >> snooze button. So when it sounds again, you really have to get up ! > & >   Is it guarranteed for 10000 jumps?  C Hmm... my brother always just picked his up and threw it across the  room.  No technology needed.   --- jls 0 The preceding message was personal opinion only.5 I do not speak in any authorized capacity for anyone,h and certainly not my employer.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 18:04:11 GMTu6 From: "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@NOSPAM.spyderbyte.com>= Subject: News.com: HP names NCR leader as new chief executiveb> Message-ID: <vMg2e.75791$_i3.4413062@twister.southeast.rr.com>  4 News.com: HP names NCR leader as new chief executive9 http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=05/03/29/9157203        KenD   OpenVMS.org5% _____________________________________m Kenneth R. Farmer <>< & SpyderByte: http://www.SpyderByte.com    ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 09:57:48 +0000 (UTC)uP From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)0 Subject: non-US-ASCII characters in mail headers$ Message-ID: <d2ghis$g4l$1@online.de>  F I've been using VMS MAIL for about 13 years.  I use it for practicallyG everything.  I regularly use the compose key to produce characters from D the DEC multinational character set which are not in 7-bit printableC US-ASCII.  I realise that these will only display correctly if the  D recipient is using an identical or at least similar character set.  F However, if I know that, and if all email handling is 8-bit clean, is  there a reason not to use this?>  F The reason I ask is that yesterday, for the first time ever, I got an G error message from a mail server because the Subject: header of a mail .H message I sent had such a character in it.  Is this in violation of any 6 RFC, i.e. was the mail server correct in rejecting it?   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 05:06:09 -0500N- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>24 Subject: Re: non-US-ASCII characters in mail headersB Message-ID: <1112263567.925ba1a7c3930e13e4e31b1cdd3088b9@teranews>  / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:/G > The reason I ask is that yesterday, for the first time ever, I got anyH > error message from a mail server because the Subject: header of a mailI > message I sent had such a character in it.  Is this in violation of anyc8 > RFC, i.e. was the mail server correct in rejecting it?  F Yes and no. There are 8 bit exxtesions to RFC822 which allow raw 8 bitG characters. Many SMTP serves automatically translate messages to quotedeH printable when they see any caractedr greater than 127 which is what was8 required prior to the 8 bit extensions becoming "legal".  G Strictly speaking, you are not RFC822 complaint when you send raw 8 bit J characters. But you are compliant with other RFCs which superceded RFC822.  D TCPIP services on VMS seem to simply chop the high bit of charcatersD when you tell you don't have any 8bit clean channel. (As oppposed toG encoding charcaters). But I haven,t tested this in a long while though.o   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Mar 2005 05:35:31 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)e4 Subject: Re: non-US-ASCII characters in mail headers3 Message-ID: <Bq+sW46YDOQd@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  w In article <d2ghis$g4l$1@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: H > I've been using VMS MAIL for about 13 years.  I use it for practicallyI > everything.  I regularly use the compose key to produce characters fromtF > the DEC multinational character set which are not in 7-bit printableE > US-ASCII.  I realise that these will only display correctly if the sF > recipient is using an identical or at least similar character set.  H > However, if I know that, and if all email handling is 8-bit clean, is ! > there a reason not to use this?  > H > The reason I ask is that yesterday, for the first time ever, I got an I > error message from a mail server because the Subject: header of a mail 0J > message I sent had such a character in it.  Is this in violation of any 8 > RFC, i.e. was the mail server correct in rejecting it?  @ If the resulting message was in violation of some SMTP RFC, thenD the error was in whatever piece of software you are using to put theF VMSmail messages onto an IP network.  That software should have eitherG modified your message so it conformed to SMTP protocol or else rejected- it.-   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 12:14:21 +0000 (UTC)<P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)4 Subject: Re: non-US-ASCII characters in mail headers$ Message-ID: <d2gpis$337$1@online.de>  E In article <1112263567.925ba1a7c3930e13e4e31b1cdd3088b9@teranews>, JFg- Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: R  1 > Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:iI > > The reason I ask is that yesterday, for the first time ever, I got an J > > error message from a mail server because the Subject: header of a mailK > > message I sent had such a character in it.  Is this in violation of anyd: > > RFC, i.e. was the mail server correct in rejecting it? > H > Yes and no. There are 8 bit exxtesions to RFC822 which allow raw 8 bitI > characters. Many SMTP serves automatically translate messages to quotedhJ > printable when they see any caractedr greater than 127 which is what was: > required prior to the 8 bit extensions becoming "legal".  + OK, but the server in question rejected it..  I > Strictly speaking, you are not RFC822 complaint when you send raw 8 bitlL > characters. But you are compliant with other RFCs which superceded RFC822.  B OK, but is it RFC822-compliant to reject such a message as well?  H (Presumably, it would be compliant with the extended standards, but I'm $ thinking of RFC822-compliance here.)   > F > TCPIP services on VMS seem to simply chop the high bit of charcatersF > when you tell you don't have any 8bit clean channel. (As oppposed toI > encoding charcaters). But I haven,t tested this in a long while though.e  * Right; I have 8-bit transport switched on.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 15:21:35 +0200 3 From: Michael Unger <spam.to.unger@spamgourmet.com> 4 Subject: Re: non-US-ASCII characters in mail headers, Message-ID: <3b2cnpF6fhpp8U1@individual.net>  F On 2005-03-31 14:14, "Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply" wrote:  G > In article <1112263567.925ba1a7c3930e13e4e31b1cdd3088b9@teranews>, JF / > Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: 8 > - > OK, but the server in question rejected it.y)                                  ^^^^^^^^3 > J >> Strictly speaking, you are not RFC822 complaint when you send raw 8 bitM >> characters. But you are compliant with other RFCs which superceded RFC822.e > D > OK, but is it RFC822-compliant to reject such a message as well?  J > (Presumably, it would be compliant with the extended standards, but I'm & > thinking of RFC822-compliance here.)  @ Perhaps due to site policy -- rejecting mails with inappropriateG headers, i.e., neither "escaped" ("quoted printable", starting with thetD string "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?") nor "encoded" ("base64", starting with theH string "=?ISO-8859-1?B?") non-7bit characters. ("ISO-8859-1" taken as an( example of a wide-spread character set.)   > [...]H   Michaeln   -- a; Real names enhance the probability of getting real answers.a5 My e-mail account at DECUS Munich is no longer valid.w   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 14:01:23 +0100t* From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>4 Subject: Re: non-US-ASCII characters in mail headers2 Message-ID: <d2gsb4$lv8$1@blackmamba.itd.rl.ac.uk>  ] "Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply" <helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de> wrote in messagem news:d2ghis$g4l$1@online.de...  G > However, if I know that, and if all email handling is 8-bit clean, is9! > there a reason not to use this?l  ? There isn't any RFC for 8-bit clean mail as such. It's ASCII or  MIME.e  G > The reason I ask is that yesterday, for the first time ever, I got an H > error message from a mail server because the Subject: header of a mailI > message I sent had such a character in it.  Is this in violation of any 8 > RFC, i.e. was the mail server correct in rejecting it?  H It's not supported by the RFCs; whether or not the mailer was correct is a matter of opinion.   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 14:27:52 +0000 (UTC), From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk4 Subject: Re: non-US-ASCII characters in mail headers) Message-ID: <d2h1d8$5bk$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>m  w In article <d2gplk$337$2@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes:-4 >In article <Bq+sW46YDOQd@eisner.encompasserve.org>,1 >Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: c > z >> In article <d2ghis$g4l$1@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes:K >> > I've been using VMS MAIL for about 13 years.  I use it for practicallyiL >> > everything.  I regularly use the compose key to produce characters fromI >> > the DEC multinational character set which are not in 7-bit printabletH >> > US-ASCII.  I realise that these will only display correctly if the I >> > recipient is using an identical or at least similar character set.  sK >> > However, if I know that, and if all email handling is 8-bit clean, is a$ >> > there a reason not to use this? >> >  K >> > The reason I ask is that yesterday, for the first time ever, I got an jL >> > error message from a mail server because the Subject: header of a mail M >> > message I sent had such a character in it.  Is this in violation of any r; >> > RFC, i.e. was the mail server correct in rejecting it?@ >> c   RFC 821 Mail must be 7 bit.l   From section 2. THE SMTP MODEL   " L Commands and replies are composed of characters from the ASCII character setK [1]. When the transport service provides an 8-bit byte (octet) transmissionwM channel, each 7-bit character is transmitted right justified in an octet withr# the high order bit cleared to zero.s "m  > RFC 821 was superseded by RFC 2821 which states in section 2.4   ",L Commands and replies are composed of characters from the ASCII character setK [1]. When the transport service provides an 8-bit byte (octet) transmission-M channel, each 7-bit character is transmitted right justified in an octet witho# the high order bit cleared to zero. K More specifically, the unextended SMTP service provides seven bit transport J only. An originating SMTP client which has not successfully negotiated an N appropriate extension with a particular server MUST NOT transmit messages withM information in the high-order bit of octets. If such messages are transmitted N in violation of this rule, receiving SMTP servers MAY clear the high order bit! or reject the message as invalid.f .> .i .cN No sending SMTP system is permitted to send envelope commands in any characterG set other than US-ASCII; receiving systems SHOULD reject such commands,e> normally using "500 syntax error - invalid character" replies. .  .o .,J Eight-bit message content transmission MAY be requested of the server by aM client using extended SMTP facilities, notably the "8BITMIME" extension [20].r- 8BITMIME SHOULD be supported by SMTP Servers.nK However, it MUST not be construed as authorization to transmit unrestrictedhO eight bit material. 8BITMIME MUST NOT be requested by senders for material with O the high bit on that is not in MIME format with an appropriate content-transfero+ encoding; servers MAY reject such messages.1 ".  9  K Finally RFC 2047 provides MIME message header extensions for non-ascii text N allowing the encoding of alternative character-sets in message headers such as the subjectline.          C >> If the resulting message was in violation of some SMTP RFC, thenyG >> the error was in whatever piece of software you are using to put theeI >> VMSmail messages onto an IP network.  That software should have either J >> modified your message so it conformed to SMTP protocol or else rejected >> it. >hI >I'm using Compaq TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS VAX Version V5.3 - ECO 4.  eH >Whether it is RFC822-compliant, I don't know.  I also don't (yet) know ; >if the error message from the server was RFC822-compliant.b >a    
 David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 13:57:30 -0500n- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>d4 Subject: Re: non-US-ASCII characters in mail headersB Message-ID: <1112295450.1fedee85b7f22ef89e22e8db4b2ca5ea@teranews>   Richard Brodie wrote:sA > There isn't any RFC for 8-bit clean mail as such. It's ASCII or? > MIME.e  - ftp://ftp.rfc-editor.org/in-notes/rfc1652.txtc   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Mar 2005 12:30:38 -0800$ From: "ugex" <edgar_ulloa@yahoo.com> Subject: Open Vms 8.2 licensesC Message-ID: <1112128238.858728.222590@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   G Some one knows if I need a new licences for test ovms 8.2 in itanium orh/ my alpha licenses will be used full for test..?     wich licences I need for test..?   ovms ..? tcpip..? dvnetend..?c
 ovms users..?R   Thanks   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Mar 2005 15:21:14 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)>" Subject: Re: Open Vms 8.2 licenses3 Message-ID: <J0ZAO8FdKPeN@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  j In article <1112128238.858728.222590@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "ugex" <edgar_ulloa@yahoo.com> writes:  I > Some one knows if I need a new licences for test ovms 8.2 in itanium ori1 > my alpha licenses will be used full for test..?a  " > wich licences I need for test..?  G    For testing you can borrow a system from HP, either on the net or by %    traveling to one of their centers.o  <    You may be able to borrow a couple licenses and a system.  >    You can't move any of the licenses without HP's permission.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 02:08:07 GMTc5 From: rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger)n" Subject: Re: Open Vms 8.2 licensesL Message-ID: <rdeininger-2903052108150001@user-uinj4m8.dialup.mindspring.com>  J In article <1112128238.858728.222590@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "ugex" <edgar_ulloa@yahoo.com> wrote:  H >Some one knows if I need a new licences for test ovms 8.2 in itanium or0 >my alpha licenses will be used full for test..? >e! >wich licences I need for test..?P > 	 >ovms ..?i	 >tcpip..?  >dvnetend..? >ovms users..?  F I can't think of any HP VMS products for which Alpha PAKs will work on& I64.  Maybe there are some exceptions.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 15:41:55 +0200e, From: Albrecht Schlosser <ajs856@tiscali.de>" Subject: Re: Open Vms 8.2 licenses, Message-ID: <a3jj2d.b5n.ln@news.hus-soft.de>    Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER wrote:l > In article <1112128238.858728.222590@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "ugex" <edgar_ulloa@yahoo.com> writes: > I >>Some one knows if I need a new licences for test ovms 8.2 in itanium ore1 >>my alpha licenses will be used full for test..?n >  > 6 > Are you a troll ? Where do you get the Itanic from ?  B Are YOU a troll ? If this is a _real_ question, I can tell you an B address in Germany :-) We got a special test offer on 14-MAR-2005.   $ tcpip sho vers  C    HP TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Industry Standard 64 Version V5.5 8    on an HP rx1620  (1.30GHz/3.0MB) running OpenVMS V8.2   $ d operator.log;1   Directory SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSMGR]  G OPERATOR.LOG;1     16  15-MAR-2005 16:21:13.20  15-MAR-2005 18:08:31.49a   Total of 1 file, 16 blocks.i    " >>wich licences I need for test..?   These are my licenses:  	 $ sho lic    Active licenses on node HSIA01:   > ------- Product ID --------    ---- Rating ----- -- Version --A Product            Producer    Units PPL   Activ Version Release   TerminationdH C                  HP              1  0     1      0.0  (none)   (none)   H FORTRAN            HP              1  0     1      0.0  (none)   (none)   H OPENVMS-I64-FOE    HP              1  1     0      0.0  (none)   (none)       H FORTRAN and C are concurrent use licenses for one user. OPENVMS-I64-FOE 5 is, as Peter wrote, for an unlimited number of users.l   Albrecht   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 09:28:43 +0100s- From: Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com>o' Subject: Re: OpenVMS 8.2 for a hobbyisto, Message-ID: <3asi32F61g06kU1@individual.net>   Dan Holm wrote:h > [...snip...] > H > If someone has an image that they wouldn't mind sharing that would be D > great, or I live in Houston if someone locally has physical media.  ! Is that Houston in Renfrewshire ?-  C Please, please specify which *country* you're in.  Let me guess ...-@ you didn't specify a country, so I bet it's not the Renfrewshire4 Houston after all.  Somewhere in the USofA perhaps ?   *sigh*.-   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 13:07:01 +0100@/ From: Tim ffrench-Lynch <nospam@baesystems.com>n' Subject: Re: OpenVMS 8.2 for a hobbyist8- Message-ID: <424944E5.EBD8107@baesystems.com>    > >Dan Holm wrote:I > > If someone has an image that they wouldn't mind sharing that would belG > > great, or I live in Houston if someone locally has physical media. p   >Roy Omond wrote:e# > Is that Houston in Renfrewshire ?E > E > Please, please specify which *country* you're in.  Let me guess ...cB > you didn't specify a country, so I bet it's not the Renfrewshire6 > Houston after all.  Somewhere in the USofA perhaps ?  6 You're probably correct, but which Houston in the USA?   Houston, Alabama e   Houston, Alaska    Houston, Arkansas    Houston, Delaware      Houston, Minnesota i   Houston, Mississippi m   Houston, Ohio    Houston, Pennsylvania    Houston, Texas     Tim    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 14:40:27 +0200h, From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems.dotweg@zonnet.nl>' Subject: Re: OpenVMS 8.2 for a hobbyists, Message-ID: <3at0ruF6e9qflU1@individual.net>  > "Tim ffrench-Lynch" <nospam@baesystems.com> schreef in bericht' news:424944E5.EBD8107@baesystems.com...  > > >Dan Holm wrote:K > > > If someone has an image that they wouldn't mind sharing that would bewH > > > great, or I live in Houston if someone locally has physical media. >5 > >Roy Omond wrote:m% > > Is that Houston in Renfrewshire ?m > >uG > > Please, please specify which *country* you're in.  Let me guess ...2D > > you didn't specify a country, so I bet it's not the Renfrewshire8 > > Houston after all.  Somewhere in the USofA perhaps ? > 8 > You're probably correct, but which Houston in the USA? >   Houston, Alabama >   Houston, Alaskay >   Houston, Arkansass >   Houston, Delaware- >   Houston, Minnesota >   Houston, Mississippi >   Houston, Ohior >   Houston, Pennsylvaniat >   Houston, Texas >: > Tim   ) I thought each state had its own Houston?    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 10:34:59 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>'' Subject: Re: OpenVMS 8.2 for a hobbyistfB Message-ID: <1112110498.d0aeb90e940d5eeeea7e8bf4bdcf3d71@teranews>   Roy Omond wrote:F > > great, or I live in Houston if someone locally has physical media. > # > Is that Houston in Renfrewshire ?i  / Or perhaps Houston in British Columbia Canada ?    :-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 10:19:56 -0600e3 From: Dan Holm <danholm@googlesfreemailservice.com>h' Subject: Re: OpenVMS 8.2 for a hobbyisti9 Message-ID: <4249802d$0$3714$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net>    Roy Omond wrote:  # > Is that Houston in Renfrewshire ?a > E > Please, please specify which *country* you're in.  Let me guess ...eB > you didn't specify a country, so I bet it's not the Renfrewshire6 > Houston after all.  Somewhere in the USofA perhaps ?   Hah, good point.  Sorry, guys.  I I figured after all the press surrounding the USA's cowboy president and 'G Halliburton, everyone would just assume Houston, TX.  When your entire eH world is contained within such narrow borders, I suppose you forget how  large the world is.a   -- i DanS   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Mar 2005 10:23:43 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)S' Subject: Re: OpenVMS 8.2 for a hobbyistr3 Message-ID: <OpcQ2geK5Ajy@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  [ In article <3at0ruF6e9qflU1@individual.net>, "Hans Vlems" <hvlems.dotweg@zonnet.nl> writes:m  + > I thought each state had its own Houston?a  D No, you are thinking of Springfield, which is so widespread in order' to provide anonymity to "The Simpsons".,   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 17:47:09 +0100tE From: Tim ffrench-Lynch <tim-DOT-ffrench-HYPHEN-lynch@baesystems.com>n' Subject: Re: OpenVMS 8.2 for a hobbyistu. Message-ID: <4249868D.D420DC2E@baesystems.com>   Dan Holm wrote:M  > Hah, good point.  Sorry, guys. > J > I figured after all the press surrounding the USA's cowboy president andH > Halliburton, everyone would just assume Houston, TX.  When your entireI > world is contained within such narrow borders, I suppose you forget howr > large the world is.   C Glad you're OK about the ribbing, hope you can get the media you're- after.   Tim-   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Mar 2005 04:13:45 -0800# From: "Galen" <gltackett@gmail.com>w' Subject: Re: OpenVMS 8.2 for a hobbyistsB Message-ID: <1112184825.191047.93120@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>   Dan Holm wrote:gC > When your entire world is contained within such narrow borders, In* suppose you forget how large the world is.      G But isn't Texas so big that it includes all the rest of the world?  :-)u  F Sorry, couldn't help myself. There are already enough dumb "jokes" out there about how big Texas is.n   -- a Galenn   ------------------------------   Date: 30 Mar 2005 21:22:44 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)' Subject: Re: OpenVMS 8.2 for a hobbyistp, Message-ID: <3b0jl4F6dlis5U1@individual.net>  B In article <1112184825.191047.93120@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,& 	"Galen" <gltackett@gmail.com> writes: > Dan Holm wrote:HD >> When your entire world is contained within such narrow borders, I, > suppose you forget how large the world is. >  >  > I > But isn't Texas so big that it includes all the rest of the world?  :-)i > H > Sorry, couldn't help myself. There are already enough dumb "jokes" out > there about how big Texas is.t >   B Texas? Big?  Texas stopped being even the biggest state  in the USD when I was still reading nickel comic books.  (anybody else remember" the Batman comic "The 49th Star"?)   bill   -- 2J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------    Date: 31 Mar 2005 15:35:34 -05003 From: Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> ' Subject: Re: OpenVMS 8.2 for a hobbyista. Message-ID: <mddu0mrd04p.fsf@panix5.panix.com>  * bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:  D > Texas? Big?  Texas stopped being even the biggest state  in the USF > when I was still reading nickel comic books.  (anybody else remember$ > the Batman comic "The 49th Star"?)  K Nickel comic books?  Ours were on paper, and cost a dime.  They cost a dimeuK when my dad was a boy, too, but they had 64 pages instead of 22.  They went H up to 12c not long after the 49th state came in--both acts of inflation.   -- tL Rich Alderson, 8th generation Texan                 | /"\ ASCII ribbon     |L news@alderson.users.panix.com                       | \ / campaign against |L "You get what anybody gets. You get a lifetime."    |  x  HTML mail and    |L                          --Death, of the Endless    | / \ postings         |   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 22:05:53 +0800H From: prep@prep.synonet.comu' Subject: Re: OpenVMS 8.2 for a hobbyist,- Message-ID: <871x9upp6m.fsf@prep.synonet.com>m  1 Tim ffrench-Lynch <nospam@baesystems.com> writes:t   >> >Dan Holm wrote:d  J >> > If someone has an image that they wouldn't mind sharing that would beH >> > great, or I live in Houston if someone locally has physical media.    >>Roy Omond wrote:  $ >> Is that Houston in Renfrewshire ?  aF >> Please, please specify which *country* you're in.  Let me guess ...C >> you didn't specify a country, so I bet it's not the Renfrewshire 7 >> Houston after all.  Somewhere in the USofA perhaps ?n  8 > You're probably correct, but which Houston in the USA?   >   Houston, Alabama n >   Houston, Alaska  >   Houston, Arkansas  >   Houston, Delaware    >   Houston, Minnesota s >   Houston, Mississippi u >   Houston, Ohio  >   Houston, Pennsylvania    >   Houston, Texas   That's in Queensland, right? :)l   -- S< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 21:32:27 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  Subject: OT: Ink expiry B Message-ID: <1112063521.55e9ba41311f54601edd82a2d049e513@teranews>  b http://news.com.com/HP+sues+firms+that+refill+ink+cartridges/2100-1041_3-5643687.html?tag=nefd.top  B It is an article about HP suing 2 ink refill companies. One is forB infringement of patents, the other because the company doesn't put& "refilled" prominently on the package.  @ But that article as an interesting paragraph in lighgt of recent discussions here:o   ##F ...  HP printing unit exec Pradeep Jotwani said in a 2003 interview...  > "We consciously make sure that our cartridges are reusable andG refillable," Jotwani said at the time. The company does put some limits ? on the practice, such as adding software that makes some of its ; cartridges unusable after a certain expiration date--either . four-and-a-half years after its manufacture or- two-and-a-half years after its installation. e ##   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Mar 2005 05:23:01 -0800* From: "Alan Greig" <greigaln@netscape.net> Subject: Re: OT: Ink expirytB Message-ID: <1112102581.031548.83290@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>   JF Mezei wrote:r >a@ > "We consciously make sure that our cartridges are reusable andB > refillable," Jotwani said at the time. The company does put some limitsA > on the practice, such as adding software that makes some of itsa= > cartridges unusable after a certain expiration date--eitherr0 > four-and-a-half years after its manufacture or. > two-and-a-half years after its installation. > ##  C I've just seen this problem for real on an old HP printer. A frienddE upgraded to Windows XP and their refilled cartridges stopped working.IG Having heard the expiration stories I set the date back a few years and C - abracadabra - the change cartridge light went out. Now unless therE time limit was passed coincidentally it seems to me at least possible:C that cartridge expiry was never implemented in the original WindowsDC (95/98/Me) drivers - at least for the specific printer here. I knowrD Microsoft either paid for or wrote drivers for older devices to easeD the XP transition so I do wonder if this expiry only happens with NT based versions of Windows. -- d
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 08:34:12 -0500h# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>> Subject: Re: OT: Ink expiryl, Message-ID: <X_GdnXl8D63LxNTfRVn-vw@igs.net>   Alan Greig wrote:. > JF Mezei wrote:t >>A >> "We consciously make sure that our cartridges are reusable andpC >> refillable," Jotwani said at the time. The company does put someaE >> limits on the practice, such as adding software that makes some ofiB >> its cartridges unusable after a certain expiration date--either1 >> four-and-a-half years after its manufacture or>/ >> two-and-a-half years after its installation.r >> ##i >eE > I've just seen this problem for real on an old HP printer. A friendlG > upgraded to Windows XP and their refilled cartridges stopped working. E > Having heard the expiration stories I set the date back a few yearsnE > and - abracadabra - the change cartridge light went out. Now unlessiB > the time limit was passed coincidentally it seems to me at leastF > possible that cartridge expiry was never implemented in the originalF > Windows (95/98/Me) drivers - at least for the specific printer here.E > I know Microsoft either paid for or wrote drivers for older devices F > to ease the XP transition so I do wonder if this expiry only happens$ > with NT based versions of Windows.    K Somebody ought to get the FTC to investigate this. Or perhaps HP would likefJ to follow in the footsteps of IBM and Microsoft to be the subject of a DOJI anti-trust action, which cost both those companies billions in legal fees  alone.     --F OpenVMS - The never advertised operating system with the dwindling ISV base.n   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 18:30:25 +0000 (UTC)i, From: Mikko Putkonen <miputkon@paju.oulu.fi>7 Subject: OT: Linux Kernel: coupling and maintainabilitye' Message-ID: <d2hfk1$kvt$1@news.oulu.fi>a  
 Hello, c.o.v.0   Any comments on this one?e  E ---------------------------------------------------------------------H  ; [http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=2005033107583993]   5 *Coupling and the Maintainability of the Linux Kernelw ~ by Dr Stupid*v   A recently presented paperE <http://csdl.computer.org/comp/trans/ts/2004/10/e0694abs.htm> has the F following abstract, something that would certainly gain the attention 1 of anyone interested in Linux kernel development:s  A     *Categorization of Common Coupling and Its Application to theh(     Maintainability of the Linux Kernel*  C     Data coupling between modules, especially common coupling, has .A     long been considered a source of concern in software design, nA     but the issue is somewhat more complicated for products that -;     are comprised of kernel modules together with optional sD     nonkernel modules. This paper presents a refined categorization D     of common coupling based on definitions and uses between kernel C     and nonkernel modules and applies the categorization to a case S
     study.  @     Common coupling is usually avoided when possible because of D     the potential for introducing risky dependencies among software A     modules. The relative risk of these dependencies is strongly o?     related to the specific definition-use relationships. In a >=     previous paper, we presented results from a longitudinal >?     analysis of multiple versions of the open-source operating o=     system Linux. This paper applies the new common coupling >C     categorization to version 2.4.20 of Linux, counting the number  B     of instances of common coupling between each of the 26 kernel D     modules and all the other nonkernel modules. We also categorize @     each coupling in terms of the definition-use relationships. B     Results show that the Linux kernel contains a large number of ?     common couplings of all types, raising a concern about the  '     long-term maintainability of Linux.e  @ To anyone with a knowledge of software engineering terminology, B whether gained through formal education or from the University of A Life, the first 90% of the abstract is uneventful; this, though, gF serves to maximize the impact of the final sentence. A "concern about E the long-term maintainability of Linux," no less. Mr A. Linux Kernel lB went to the effort of writing that reports of his destruction had  been exaggerated iF <http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20050225155855922>, but now C we find in this paper rumours are circulating of a life-threatening- illness.  F The full paper is only available to subscribers, but we were fortunateC to be able to discuss the paper with Andrew Morton, one of the leadsC kernel developers, in two contexts: first, in a general discussion 5G about coupling and kernel maintainability, and then, after he had read rH the complete paper, in specific terms related to the thoughts expressed E by the authors. As you will see, despite the worries expressed in them* paper, the Linux kernel is alive and well.  A The researchers, in designing a theoretical model to evaluate thepA coupling of Linux, have of necessity made certain assumptions to  B reduce complexity and make the problem amenable to a mathematical,E quantitative approach. However, this can lead to inaccurate results: l? you may recall the possibly apocryphal tale of the mathematicalo' demonstration that bumblebees can't flyeC <http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20040911/mathtrek.asp>. (As anpC aside, there is also a parallel here with studies showing operating-D system X to be "more secure" than operating system Y, when on closerF inspection the definition of "more secure" is a narrow and potentially5 misleading, but easy to calculate, statistic figure.)7   What is coupling?r  C "Coupling", a term which uses a visual metaphor of mechanical partsi= coupled together by a driveshaft, is used widely in software  E engineering to describe a link between two parts of a system that is nF not part of an abstracted interface. We make this distinction because F the parts of a system have to be linked in some way -- otherwise thereH would be no system. For the benefit of Groklaw's less technical readers,> I'll try to explain the concept in non-software terms (kernel - developers may skip the next few paragraphs.)   E Imagine that the steering wheel of a car was like the steering wheel gD one can buy for playing computer driving games -- that is to say, itE merely generated an electrical signal that said "a little bit left," aE "hard to the right," etc. and that this signal was passed to a devicegD under the bonnet that turned the front wheels. You could replace theA steering wheel with a similarly wired joystick, or anything that nF generated an appropriate electrical signal, and you could still drive F the car. We would call this an abstracted interface. The communicationG between the two parts (the steering wheel and the mechanism that turns iC the front wheels) has been reduced to its conceptual essence of "I c* want to go left" and "I want to go right."  D In a typical car, though (especially one without power steering) theG steering wheel is directly and mechanically linked to the front wheels.eA You could not easily replace the steering wheel with a joystick,  F because the whole mechanism depends on the wheel being turned left andD right. But not only is the interface less abstracted, but it is alsoF highly coupled. You can feel bumps and vibrations coming back up from D the wheels on the road. In other words, the coupled interface means G that what happens to one part of the mechanism (going over a rock) has  E a knock-on effect on the other (giving you a pain in the wrists) thate wasn't necessarily desired.m  B Going back to software terms, we would describe modules A and B asF coupled if, to operate properly, A relies on B's internal workings to G be a certain way, and vice versa. Just as a traditional steering wheel  B is sensitive to holes in the road, A becomes sensitive to changes F inside B. That introduces a risk that when a bug is fixed in B, it mayF cause an unexpected problem in A. It is this "knock-on effect" result D of coupling that makes software engineers -- especially when talkingB theoretically -- nervous of coupling. They invent approaches like D "Model View Controller" to discipline themselves against thoughtless	 coupling.R  E However, I hope that the above example also shows you the other side nG of the coin. The high-tech electronic steering wheel was less coupled, rG but more complex. There are more elements to go wrong, and a fault may  D be harder to find. Also, some drivers would like to "feel the road" D via the steering wheel, and to give this feedback in the electronic B system would require more complex circuitry still. Sometimes, the = costs of eliminating coupling in a system outweigh the gains.a   Back to the kernel  C The paper focused on data coupling; roughly speaking, this is where B two or more software parts all make direct use of the same area ofE computer memory. This can lead to situations where a particular part tG can have data changed "behind its back," as it were. The developer has iD to bear this in mind when writing the code, which isn't always easy.  B We asked Frank Sorenson to read the paper and here is his comment:  B     Too many dependencies between modules can obviously be viewed @     as a bad thing.  However, no coupling/dependencies leads to ?     multiple copies of the same thing, which is obviously more tC     difficult to maintain.  For example, the Linux kernel contains sB     a library of common functions that may be used in the various C     modules.  A month or so ago, someone realized that 6 different U@     modules all implemented a 'sort' function, all with the same;     interface to the module.  This brought about a push to  D     standardize them, and a single 'sort' function was put into the      common function library.  B We've already mentioned that the costs of decoupling aren't alwaysC justified -- this is a case in point. In this instance, increasing sF the use of common code -- while increasing the coupling -- reduced the maintenance requirements.r   Frank continues:  B     The article was submitted in July 2003.  That's quite a while A     ago in Linux-kernel-time.  A lot has changed since then, and cA     2.6.x is (in my opinion) more maintainable due to being well- D     engineered from the beginning.  Do the authors have results for C     the 2.6.x kernel?  How does the use of global variables change a     from 2.4.x to 2.6.x?  =     The kernel maintainers have pushed to make sure that the  B     interface to kernel functions remains the same.  For example, B     it would not be acceptable to change the way a common functionD     behaves: copy_value(source, destination) should not ever change B     to copy_value(destination, source) (unless all references are 
     fixed)  =     Linux modules are generally organized in an hierarchical  D     fashion.  This makes it much harder for a change in one area to 3     affect other modules or portions of the kernel.   >     Obviously, what the authors discuss is a very real danger >     (not specifically to Linux, but to any sufficiently large A     project -- such as Longhorn!).  The authors don't offer many -B     valid suggestions on how to combat the problem. The fact that ?     Linux is open allows them to do the research, however; the R=     closed nature of Windows prevents people from seeing how F5     Microsoft has addressed this problem (if at all.)i  F If Linux is too tightly coupled, how about Windows? Having your entireA user interface dependent on a web browser -- now that's coupling!n  E My personal opinion is that the 2.6 is much tidier and more organised F than 2.4, which in turn was tidier than 2.2, etc. The direction of theF Linux kernel is towards a cleaner, less coupled architecture -- there E is an active, ongoing, continuous effort to preserve maintainability. C Indeed, patches are frequently rejected purely on the grounds they  > harm maintainability and have to be re-engineered accordingly.   Andrew Morton's comments  > However, you probably didn't read this far to hear Frank and ID discussing the kernel, when we have Andrew Morton available. Here's $ his initial comment on the abstract:  ?     They examined a kernel (2.4.20) which is unchanged in this ">     regard from 2.4.15.  We've done three and a half years of ;     development since then! That being said, I wouldn't be h>     surprised if their analysis showed that linux-2.6.11 also =     has a lot of coupling, even though we have done a lot of d-     improvement work in that and other areas.h  ;     But that's OK -- we often do this on purpose, because, eB     although we are careful about internal interfaces, the kernel C     is optimized for speed, and when it comes to trading off speed ->     against maintenance cost, we will opt for speed.  This is A     because the kernel has a truly massive amount of development w&     and testing resources.  We use it.  =     More philosophically, I wouldn't find such a study to be nB     directly useful, really.  It represents an attempt to predict B     the maintenance cost of a piece of software.  But that's not aD     predictor of the quality! If you find that the maintenance cost <     is high, and the quality is also high, then you've just :     discovered that the product has had a large amount of C     development resources poured into it.  And that is so.  And it m     is increasing.  C     If someone wants to use this study to say that "Linux is likely3E     to be buggy" then I'd say "OK, so show me the bugs".  If they're c;     using it to say "Linux kernel maintenance uses a lot ofd>     resources" then I'd say "Sure. Don't you wish you had such     resources?".  C     Note that I'm not necessarily agreeing with the study.  If they E     looked at the kernel core then sure, there's a lot of coupling.  p@     But that's a relatively small amount of code.  If they were A     looking mainly at filesystem drivers and device drivers (the eD     bulk of the kernel) then I'd say that the study is incorrect -- ?     the interfaces into drivers is fairly lean, and is getting       leaner.s  @ Andrew then went on to read the paper in detail. His subsequent  comments were rather different:n  A     AAAARRRGGGGHHH!  . . .The only thing they've done is look at tA     the use of global variables and they've assumed that using a rA     global variable is a "bad" coupling. And look at the naughty h&     global variables which we've used:  ?         jiffies: This is a variable which counts clock ticks.  e?         Of course it's global.  Unless they know of a universe f@         in which time advances at more than one speed at a time.  >         [Dr S: System time has to be global because time is a ?         universal throughout the system.We don't usually worry @3         about Einstein in software development :) ]n  @     And they fail to note that if we _did_ want to "modularize" 1     jiffies, we'd make a change in a single file:r  @         #define jiffies    some_function_which_returns_jiffies()  6     Other examples such as system_utsname, init_task, B     panic_timeout, stop_a_enabled, xtime and `current' are all by !     definition singleton objects.a  =     'current' is especially bogus -- this refers to the task aA     structure for the currently-running task.  It's not a global c=     variable at all, really.  If this is bad, then using the -'     variable 'this' in C++ is also bad.i       Geeze.  Who reviewed this?   Theory vs Practice  D Of course, one can engage in armchair debate endlessly; ultimately, F what is needed is some empirical data against which a model or theory E can be tested. Coupling, like cholesterol, comes in "good" and "bad" rC forms. The good form enables a system to work at peak performance,  F without introducing excessive maintenance costs. The bad form results E in a system that is increasingly fragile and hard to scale. Which of dA these in practice has been uppermost in Linux kernel development?e  ) This kernel mailing list thread from 2002-E <http://www.kerneltraffic.org/kernel-traffic/kt20020701_173.html>  --"F discussing a kernel of similar vintage to that covered by the study --F is of interest. Several people expressed a worry that the kernel wouldD never effectively scale beyond 4 CPUs -- and coupling was one of the issues:E  A     [2-CPU SMP] makes fine sense for any tightly coupled system, r/     where the tight coupling is cost-efficient.i  G Three years later, have "long-term maintainability" issues in the Linuxt6 kernel held it back? Here's what Novell said last JulyI <http://www.novell.com/products/linuxenterpriseserver/sles9_whatsnew.pdf> 
 on the topic:l  @     "More than 128 CPUs have been tested on available hardware, A     but theoretically, there is no limit on the number that will h
     work."    This bumblebee continues to fly.  E ---------------------------------------------------------------------e   -Mikko (miputkon@paju.oulu.fi)   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 17:17:48 -0500a' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>e; Subject: Re: OT: Linux Kernel: coupling and maintainabilityt/ Message-ID: <114ot5k7o4i782@corp.supernews.com>    Mikko Putkonen wrote:50 > However, this can lead to inaccurate results: A > you may recall the possibly apocryphal tale of the mathematicalt) > demonstration that bumblebees can't flya> > <http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20040911/mathtrek.asp>.  G The only problem with the bumblebee analogy is that the input data was m/ incorrect.  As always, garbage in, garbage out.c  B For those who are curious, the wings of the bumblebee rotate to a G position on the up stroke that actually produces lift/thrust.  If only  ; the down stroke is evaluated, then not all data is present.o   Dave   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 17:45:24 -0500-- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>0; Subject: Re: OT: Linux Kernel: coupling and maintainability , Message-ID: <424C7D71.79555312@teksavvy.com>   Dave Froble wrote:C > For those who are curious, the wings of the bumblebee rotate to a.H > position on the up stroke that actually produces lift/thrust.  If only= > the down stroke is evaluated, then not all data is present.c    B Does this apply even of the bumblebee is stationary, or is forward, momentum required for the above to be true ?  F And do bumblebees need to run autogen from time to time to ensure they0 are properly configured for maximum efficiency ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 02:10:06 +0200>& From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@decus.ch>; Subject: Re: OT: Linux Kernel: coupling and maintainability., Message-ID: <3b3hquF6eif2oU1@individual.net>   Mikko Putkonen wrote:    > Hello, c.o.v.e >  > Any comments on this one?y >   9 Yes. Don't pollute our newsgroup with this kind of stuff.e   ------------------------------  * Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 00:39:56 +0000 (UTC), From: Mikko Putkonen <miputkon@paju.oulu.fi>; Subject: Re: OT: Linux Kernel: coupling and maintainability-' Message-ID: <d2i58s$1vf$1@news.oulu.fi>   ' Paul Sture <paul.sture@decus.ch> wrote:o > Mikko Putkonen wrote::   > > Hello, c.o.v.e > >  > > Any comments on this one?1 > >   ; > Yes. Don't pollute our newsgroup with this kind of stuff.8   Point taken.   -Mikko (miputkon@paju.oulu.fi)   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Apr 2005 03:21:43 -0800 # From: "Galen" <gltackett@gmail.com>  Subject: OT: The good old daysC Message-ID: <1112354503.195998.325050@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>m   Rich Alderson wrote: >nF > Nickel comic books?  Ours were on paper, and cost a dime.  They cost a dimeB > when my dad was a boy, too, but they had 64 pages instead of 22.	 They went-? > up to 12c not long after the 49th state came in--both acts oft
 inflation. >8   <python>F MP: Aye. In them days, we'd a' been glad to have the price of a cup o' tea.   GC: A cup ' COLD tea.A   EI: Without milk or sugar.   TG: OR tea!8   MP: In a filthy, cracked cup.p  B EI: We never used to have a cup. We used to have to drink out of a rolled up newspaper.  B GC: The best WE could manage was to suck on a piece of damp cloth.  C TG: But you know, we were happy in those days, though we were poor.i	 </python>    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 18:49:45 +0200 & From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@decus.ch>" Subject: Re: OT: The good old days, Message-ID: <3b5cdaF6h0qjnU1@individual.net>   Galen wrote:   > Rich Alderson wrote: > F >>Nickel comic books?  Ours were on paper, and cost a dime.  They cost >  > a dime > B >>when my dad was a boy, too, but they had 64 pages instead of 22. >  > They went  > ? >>up to 12c not long after the 49th state came in--both acts of  >  > inflation. >  > 
 > <python>H > MP: Aye. In them days, we'd a' been glad to have the price of a cup o' > tea. >  > GC: A cup ' COLD tea.  >  > EI: Without milk or sugar. > 
 > TG: OR tea!a >  > MP: In a filthy, cracked cup.  > D > EI: We never used to have a cup. We used to have to drink out of a > rolled up newspaper. > D > GC: The best WE could manage was to suck on a piece of damp cloth. > E > TG: But you know, we were happy in those days, though we were poor.l > </python>n > ? Careful now... MP filmed many scenes where I grew up (and were  , surprisingly accurate in their observations)  I Cemetery scene or the Ilkley Moors - I'll give a fellow VMSer a tour any o day...   But bring your walking boots   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Apr 2005 05:48:36 -0800>+ From: "Nitendra" <ns_panwar@rediffmail.com>f* Subject: poor  disk I/O performace on ds25B Message-ID: <1112363316.612267.45790@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>  5 I am running ovms 7.3.2 on alphaserver DS25(dual CPU)h  A If I try to do ftp (using 500MB single file)between two DS25 overu gigabit link back to back.E I get performance close to 33Mbps(which is even less than what we gete normally on 100Mbps network). 0 I also set MTU to 9000, but no change is result.   to debug the problem...   @ I tried to copy same file on one DS25 syetm from one disk(dkb0:)( to another disk on same system (dkb100:)2 and the data rate was close to 10MBps(80Mbits/sec)  7 can anybody help me how to improve disk i/o performace.   C because due to poor disk I/O I am not getting perofmance on gigabitl network.  ' if anybody has solution pls let me knowt   Regards   
 N.S.Panwar   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Apr 2005 08:46:27 -0800 ( From: "denny" <denny_rich@ameritech.net>- Subject: Re: poor disk I/O performace on ds25 B Message-ID: <1112373987.883077.11050@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>   Please say the disk model?   disk controller model?  C what are all the devices connected to the controller, including theo disk?M   Thanks   dennyo   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 20:01:49 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)% Subject: ports 135, 445, 139 and 1433n$ Message-ID: <d2f0jc$qp8$1@online.de>  I My remote cluster disappeared today.  I could still log in to the router hI remotely, though, so I suspected a problem in the room where the cluster eG is (the router is in a different room).  It turns out that there was a  < power failure just in that room.  Everything is back up now.  F When logged in to the router, I looked at the different possibilities E which it offers, and turned on logging, which I hadn't had on before.i  I First question: This is a LINKSYS router, and on the Log page there is a uE possibility to send the logs to a particular address.  Any idea what h
 this does?  D Second question: Looking at the logs (which have source address and D local port for incoming and source address, destination address and G remote port for outgoing), I see that most of the traffic (in terms of pI connections, if not volume) is the result of remote connections to local  7 ports 135, 445, 139 and 1433, especially the first two.-  D Does anyone know what these ports are used for?  On my VMS machines,E nothing is listening on these ports, and there is nothing else behind2= the router.  (The router forwards all incoming traffic to theb cluster-alias address.)o  F Of course, I know there is a lot of garbage out there on the internet,E so bogus incoming requests aren't that puzzling.  (Still, I'd like touC know what they are.  The IP addresses seem to be dial-up addresses.-H Interestingly, they are listed as just the IP address in the log, though. TCPIP SHOW HOST shows the name (something likeH p50813757.dip.t-dialin.net), whereas addresses for the connections whichE involve the VMS machines (HTTP, FTP, SMTP, TELNET, DNS etc) the name, B rather than the address, of the remote node shows up in the logs.)@ However, each incoming request seems to have a matching outgoingH request, as expected to a port number > 1023, and these apparently come H from the TCPIP cluster-alias address.  Thus, it at least looks like the ) cluster is responding to these addresses.e   Any idea what this means?o  D Would it make sense to block these ports at the router, rather than * having them passed through to the cluster?  F I don't see any problem with these connections; I'm just wondering a) I what they are and b) why it at least looks like my cluster is responding R	 to them. 8   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 14:31:08 -0600 3 From: Dan Holm <danholm@googlesfreemailservice.com>e) Subject: Re: ports 135, 445, 139 and 1433 9 Message-ID: <424b0c8c$0$3712$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net>h  K > First question: This is a LINKSYS router, and on the Log page there is a  G > possibility to send the logs to a particular address.  Any idea what 0 > this does?  H It depends upon the version of the router.  Some of them use this weird G proprietary Linksys protocol for log collection, but some of the newer EC ones (which are based on Linux) use plain old syslog.  Linksys has .F decent documentation available online, so I'd check for your specific  version.  F > Second question: Looking at the logs (which have source address and F > local port for incoming and source address, destination address and I > remote port for outgoing), I see that most of the traffic (in terms of nK > connections, if not volume) is the result of remote connections to local a9 > ports 135, 445, 139 and 1433, especially the first two.a  F Ports 135, 139, and 445 are for Windows file sharing.  1433 is MS-SQL.  G You're probably seeing infected Windows machines scanning the Internet uD at large looking for more machines to infect.  I work for a managed A security company, and this makes up a significant portion of the  4 malicious traffic we see on our customers' networks.  G One of our demos involves taking a regular Windows laptop, turning off uB the firewall, and seeing how long it takes for the machine to get E infected -- usually it's under two minutes.  The Internet is a sewer.h   --   Danc   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 15:53:09 -0500.- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>g) Subject: Re: ports 135, 445, 139 and 1433kB Message-ID: <1112215988.787626424d490182fc1d467357afd17b@teranews>  / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:pJ > First question: This is a LINKSYS router, and on the Log page there is aF > possibility to send the logs to a particular address.  Any idea what > this does?  ' Most likely a syslog protocol. RFC3164.   E John Vottero had ported a version to VMS. I run it on my machine.  Ife( you can't find it anywhere, let me know.  H > remote port for outgoing), I see that most of the traffic (in terms ofJ > connections, if not volume) is the result of remote connections to local9 > ports 135, 445, 139 and 1433, especially the first two.   ! You need to have handy access to:r    http://www.iana.org/numbers.html   and in particular:G http://www.iana.org/assignments/port-numbers   (Look for "Port numbers"- on the above page)  H I keep a copy of it on my system, and when there are attempts to connectE at certain unknown port numbers, I just do a search of that file withf teh port number.  E > Would it make sense to block these ports at the router, rather thano, > having them passed through to the cluster?  G It depends. For instance, if you run an IRC client, it also expects 139hH (Ident) to work, so 139 should be forwarded to whatever machine runs the IRC client.    ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 21:26:41 +0000 (UTC)aP From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)) Subject: Re: ports 135, 445, 139 and 1433n$ Message-ID: <d2f5ih$1nb$1@online.de>  B In article <424b0c8c$0$3712$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net>, Dan Holm- <danholm@googlesfreemailservice.com> writes:    I > You're probably seeing infected Windows machines scanning the Internet  F > at large looking for more machines to infect.  I work for a managed C > security company, and this makes up a significant portion of the p6 > malicious traffic we see on our customers' networks.   That's what I suspected.  A What I'm surprised about, though, is that each of these incoming  9 requests apparently has a corresponding outgoing request.i   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 21:28:13 +0000 (UTC)tP From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)) Subject: Re: ports 135, 445, 139 and 1433s$ Message-ID: <d2f5ld$1nb$2@online.de>  E In article <1112215988.787626424d490182fc1d467357afd17b@teranews>, JFR- Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: i  L > > First question: This is a LINKSYS router, and on the Log page there is aH > > possibility to send the logs to a particular address.  Any idea what > > this does? > ) > Most likely a syslog protocol. RFC3164.o > G > John Vottero had ported a version to VMS. I run it on my machine.  Ifo* > you can't find it anywhere, let me know.  H OK, but HOW does it "send" the log to a given address?  Does it connect I to some port at that address and transfer the log to something listening   there?  I > It depends. For instance, if you run an IRC client, it also expects 139tJ > (Ident) to work, so 139 should be forwarded to whatever machine runs the
 > IRC client.a   No, no chatting.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 16:38:27 -05002- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>v) Subject: Re: ports 135, 445, 139 and 1433-B Message-ID: <1112218707.e8996b3f597304b091b99982cec20659@teranews>  / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:gI > OK, but HOW does it "send" the log to a given address?  Does it connect J > to some port at that address and transfer the log to something listening > there?    E Syslog uses UDP. The router sends a packet to port 514 of whatever IPe+ address you told the router to send it too.e  H So if your have s syslog deamon/server on the machine, it listens to anyC packet coming in to port 514 and logs it to disk (in the case fo Mrd5 Vottero's package, you can also have it go to OPCOM).t   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 21:45:51 +0000 (UTC)tP From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)) Subject: Re: ports 135, 445, 139 and 1433t$ Message-ID: <d2f6mf$1nb$3@online.de>  E In article <1112218707.e8996b3f597304b091b99982cec20659@teranews>, JF0- Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: n  1 > Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:DK > > OK, but HOW does it "send" the log to a given address?  Does it connect L > > to some port at that address and transfer the log to something listening
 > > there? >  > G > Syslog uses UDP. The router sends a packet to port 514 of whatever IPs- > address you told the router to send it too.t > J > So if your have s syslog deamon/server on the machine, it listens to anyE > packet coming in to port 514 and logs it to disk (in the case fo Mro7 > Vottero's package, you can also have it go to OPCOM).d  + Interesting.  Where can I get this package?a   ------------------------------   Date: 30 Mar 2005 22:51:17 GMT1 From: JONESD@er6.eng.ohio-state.edu (David Jones) ) Subject: Re: ports 135, 445, 139 and 1433t: Message-ID: <d2fah5$89e$1@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>  9 In message <424b0c8c$0$3712$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net>, 8    Dan Holm <danholm@googlesfreemailservice.com> writes:K >> First question: This is a LINKSYS router, and on the Log page there is apG >> possibility to send the logs to a particular address.  Any idea whatI
 >> this does?h >eH >It depends upon the version of the router.  Some of them use this weirdG >proprietary Linksys protocol for log collection, but some of the newerh6 >ones (which are based on Linux) use plain old syslog.  J For the old BEFSR41 cable router, the messages look an awful lot like SNMP1 messages.  I was able to decode them at one time.     < David L. Jones               |      Phone:    (614) 271-6718- Ohio State University        |      Internet: L 140 W. 19th St.              |               jonesd@er6s1.eng.ohio-state.edu: Columbus, OH 43210           |               vman+@osu.edu  1 Disclaimer: I'm looking for marbles all day long.    ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 23:39:47 +0000 (UTC)i7 From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)r) Subject: Re: ports 135, 445, 139 and 1433i( Message-ID: <d2fdc3$kpk$1@pcls4.std.com>  R helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes:  E >Second question: Looking at the logs (which have source address and iE >local port for incoming and source address, destination address and nH >remote port for outgoing), I see that most of the traffic (in terms of J >connections, if not volume) is the result of remote connections to local 8 >ports 135, 445, 139 and 1433, especially the first two.  E >Does anyone know what these ports are used for?  On my VMS machines,dF >nothing is listening on these ports, and there is nothing else behind> >the router.  (The router forwards all incoming traffic to the >cluster-alias address.)  F As others have mentioned, these are mostly virus/worm infected Windoze9 systems trying to spread the virus/worms to your systems.g  G >Of course, I know there is a lot of garbage out there on the internet, F >so bogus incoming requests aren't that puzzling.  (Still, I'd like toD >know what they are.  The IP addresses seem to be dial-up addresses.  : You might expect lots of infected PCs on dialup addresses.  A >However, each incoming request seems to have a matching outgoing-I >request, as expected to a port number > 1023, and these apparently come hI >from the TCPIP cluster-alias address.  Thus, it at least looks like the x* >cluster is responding to these addresses.  I Is the response simply nothing more than the IP response "this port isn'taC open here!" which is the standard VMS response? (at least with the tG TCPIP/UCX stacks), The other possible action is to ignore such incominggH connections as if there was no system there, but the IP specs say do the former.e  E >Would it make sense to block these ports at the router, rather than u+ >having them passed through to the cluster?c  C If you're worried about your VMS systems getting infected by those c viruses, sure. :-)  F I personally have a different approach - about two years ago I adaptedD a 'tarpit' program called 'LaBrea' (intended for Unix/Linux) to VMS.D It is a deliberately "broken" TCP/IP stack which tries to tie up anyD incoming connects to it.  (The idea was to taunt hackers, but mostly it just ties up worms/viruses)  G I plugged an old DE435 adapter in my system, and ran this tarpit on it,dH and set up the NAT router to forward all incoming connections other thanG the ones I actually want to the tarpit's IP address.  (the other "real"n@ net adapter runs the standard TCP/IP stack and has a separate IPC address, the NAT router forwards incoming connects that I _do_ wante (such as HTTP) to it.   E It's pretty primitive and really isn't that useful since most of whati1 it catches are just worms and not actual hackers.b --   -Mikei   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 19:41:32 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>r) Subject: Re: ports 135, 445, 139 and 1433iB Message-ID: <1112229675.9de421d157e5365aff6267645699410b@teranews>  / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: L > > So if your have s syslog deamon/server on the machine, it listens to anyG > > packet coming in to port 514 and logs it to disk (in the case fo Mr 9 > > Vottero's package, you can also have it go to OPCOM).i > - > Interesting.  Where can I get this package?e  H If you can't find it in the freeware or on the VMS stuff at process.com = let me know and I can zip my direcrtory with the stuff in it.    ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 06:41:38 +0000 (UTC)tP From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)) Subject: Re: ports 135, 445, 139 and 1433e$ Message-ID: <d2g632$v19$1@online.de>  : In article <d2fah5$89e$1@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>,4 JONESD@er6.eng.ohio-state.edu (David Jones) writes:   ; > In message <424b0c8c$0$3712$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net>,p: >    Dan Holm <danholm@googlesfreemailservice.com> writes:M > >> First question: This is a LINKSYS router, and on the Log page there is aeI > >> possibility to send the logs to a particular address.  Any idea whato > >> this does?e > >sJ > >It depends upon the version of the router.  Some of them use this weirdI > >proprietary Linksys protocol for log collection, but some of the newero8 > >ones (which are based on Linux) use plain old syslog. > L > For the old BEFSR41 cable router, the messages look an awful lot like SNMP3 > messages.  I was able to decode them at one time.   D I believe that's the one I have, although I am not using cable (but I rather PPPoE and DSL).  The messages in the logs displayed by the router /C look intelligible enough.  I have version 1.42.6 of the firmware.  lH Rather old, but seems to work well enough and I don't want to change it I for fear that I might get into a situation where I have a non-functional c router and can't fix it!   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 06:45:29 +0000 (UTC)gP From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)) Subject: Re: ports 135, 445, 139 and 1433i$ Message-ID: <d2g6a8$v19$2@online.de>  H In article <d2fdc3$kpk$1@pcls4.std.com>, moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) writes:   C > >However, each incoming request seems to have a matching outgoingoK > >request, as expected to a port number > 1023, and these apparently come aK > >from the TCPIP cluster-alias address.  Thus, it at least looks like the e, > >cluster is responding to these addresses. > K > Is the response simply nothing more than the IP response "this port isn't E > open here!" which is the standard VMS response? (at least with the nI > TCPIP/UCX stacks), The other possible action is to ignore such incomingrJ > connections as if there was no system there, but the IP specs say do the	 > former.t  A That might be the case.  From the router itself, I can't see the lF contents of the responses.  Perhaps I can if I manage to get the logs  sent to a VMS machine.  G > >Would it make sense to block these ports at the router, rather than u- > >having them passed through to the cluster?h > E > If you're worried about your VMS systems getting infected by those t > viruses, sure. :-)  : No, I was thinking about cutting down unnecessary traffic.  H > I personally have a different approach - about two years ago I adaptedF > a 'tarpit' program called 'LaBrea' (intended for Unix/Linux) to VMS.F > It is a deliberately "broken" TCP/IP stack which tries to tie up anyF > incoming connects to it.  (The idea was to taunt hackers, but mostly  > it just ties up worms/viruses) > I > I plugged an old DE435 adapter in my system, and ran this tarpit on it,cJ > and set up the NAT router to forward all incoming connections other thanI > the ones I actually want to the tarpit's IP address.  (the other "real"sB > net adapter runs the standard TCP/IP stack and has a separate IPE > address, the NAT router forwards incoming connects that I _do_ wante > (such as HTTP) to it.  > G > It's pretty primitive and really isn't that useful since most of whatt3 > it catches are just worms and not actual hackers.t  G Do you have a portable (to VMS), workable tarpit program?  I have a VMSiA machine with (at the moment) NO incoming connections.  I've often H thought about distributing several valid email addresses for it over the@ internet, then run a tarpit to tie up SMTP connections, to annoy
 spammers.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 13:19:24 +0200 3 From: Michael Unger <spam.to.unger@spamgourmet.com>a) Subject: Re: ports 135, 445, 139 and 1433h, Message-ID: <3b24q3F6fqnl9U1@individual.net>  & On 2005-03-30 22:53, "JF Mezei" wrote:  1 > Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:eK >> First question: This is a LINKSYS router, and on the Log page there is aoG >> possibility to send the logs to a particular address.  Any idea whatg
 >> this does?g > ) > Most likely a syslog protocol. RFC3164.u >  > [...]r  H Must be a very strange protocol -- the RfC is talking about moths at the beginning of section 6:i  F | One species of moth uses this scent to find each other.  However, itD | has been found that bolas spiders can mimic the odor of the femaleH | moths of this species.  This scent will then attract male moths, whichG | will follow it with the expectation of finding a mate.  Instead, when.= | they arrive at the source of the scent, they will be eaten.e   Michael'   -- s; Real names enhance the probability of getting real answers.i5 My e-mail account at DECUS Munich is no longer valid.u   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 20:47:01 +0200e% From: "Jakob Erber" <erberj@yahoo.de> ) Subject: Re: ports 135, 445, 139 and 1433t* Message-ID: <d2hgjd$dar$1@news.hispeed.ch>  & Port 135 is used by DCE (dced or rpcd)   regardsu   Jakobh    L "Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply" <helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de>5 schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:d2f0jc$qp8$1@online.de...'J > My remote cluster disappeared today.  I could still log in to the routerJ > remotely, though, so I suspected a problem in the room where the clusterH > is (the router is in a different room).  It turns out that there was a> > power failure just in that room.  Everything is back up now. >pG > When logged in to the router, I looked at the different possibilitiesrG > which it offers, and turned on logging, which I hadn't had on before.o >nJ > First question: This is a LINKSYS router, and on the Log page there is aF > possibility to send the logs to a particular address.  Any idea what > this does? >pE > Second question: Looking at the logs (which have source address andeE > local port for incoming and source address, destination address anddH > remote port for outgoing), I see that most of the traffic (in terms ofJ > connections, if not volume) is the result of remote connections to local9 > ports 135, 445, 139 and 1433, especially the first two.w >dF > Does anyone know what these ports are used for?  On my VMS machines,G > nothing is listening on these ports, and there is nothing else behinde? > the router.  (The router forwards all incoming traffic to the  > cluster-alias address.)  >aH > Of course, I know there is a lot of garbage out there on the internet,G > so bogus incoming requests aren't that puzzling.  (Still, I'd like tolE > know what they are.  The IP addresses seem to be dial-up addresses. J > Interestingly, they are listed as just the IP address in the log, though0 > TCPIP SHOW HOST shows the name (something likeJ > p50813757.dip.t-dialin.net), whereas addresses for the connections whichG > involve the VMS machines (HTTP, FTP, SMTP, TELNET, DNS etc) the name,nD > rather than the address, of the remote node shows up in the logs.)B > However, each incoming request seems to have a matching outgoingI > request, as expected to a port number > 1023, and these apparently comeeI > from the TCPIP cluster-alias address.  Thus, it at least looks like thes+ > cluster is responding to these addresses.h >  > Any idea what this means?e > E > Would it make sense to block these ports at the router, rather thanr, > having them passed through to the cluster? >iG > I don't see any problem with these connections; I'm just wondering a)yJ > what they are and b) why it at least looks like my cluster is responding
 > to them. >c   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 22:24:21 +0100 # From: issinoho <issinoho@gmail.com>i Subject: Possible faulty drive> Message-ID: <1112217947.26826.0@nnrp-t71-03.news.uk.clara.net>  H Just got a real cheap new drive from ebay and am having trouble getting 
 her fired up..  E Can anyone help me diagnose the problem with this drive. If I try to h) INIT it I get a simple 'INIT-F-DEVCMDERR'e   Is it hosed?    From DIAGNOSE...-  , Logging OS                        1. OpenVMS* System Architecture               2. Alpha+ OS version                           V7.3-1h$ Event sequence number          4332.9 Timestamp of occurrence              30-MAR-2005 21:49:53t5 Time since reboot                    0 Day(s) 0:26:06h* Host name                            XXXXX  A System Model                         Digital Personal WorkStationh  1 Entry Type                        1. Device Error      ---- Device Profile ----1 Unit                                 XXXXX$DKB400n0 Product Name                         WD91 ULTRA2+ Vendor                               WDIGTL    -- Driver Supplied Info -c) Device Firmware Revision             1.00c= VMS SCSI Error Type               3. Send SCSI Command Failed # SCSI ID                         x04,# SCSI LUN                        x00a# SCSI SUBLUN                     x00oE Port Status               x0000032C  DEVCMDERR - device command errorm, SCSI Command Opcode             x12  Inquiry Command Data$                                  x00$                                  x00$                                  x00$                                  xFF$                                  x00  7 SCSI Status                     xFF  No Status Received    ----- Software Info -----s6 UCB$x_ERTCNT                     16. Retries Remaining6 UCB$x_ERTMAX                     16. Retries Allowable+ IRP$Q_IOSB                x0000000000000000 + UCB$x_STS                 x18020110  Onlinei*                                       BusyG                                       Volume is Valid on the local node A                                       Unit supports the Extended e Function bit4 IRP$L_PID                 x00010053  Requestor "PID"5 IRP$x_BOFF                        0. Byte Page OffsetG= IRP$x_BCNT                        0. Transfer Size In Byte(s) 5 UCB$x_ERRCNT                      5. Errors This Unita4 UCB$L_OPCNT                       6. QIO's This Unit/ ORB$L_OWNER               x00010004  Owners UICe9 UCB$L_DEVCHAR1            x1CC54008  Directory Structuredc3                                       File Orienteds.                                       Sharable/                                       Available 3                                       Error Logginge/                                       Allocatede6                                       Capable of Input7                                       Capable of Output 3                                       Random Accesse   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 01:47:27 +0100i# From: issinoho <issinoho@gmail.com>m" Subject: Re: Possible faulty drive3 Message-ID: <1112230150.30205.0@lotis.uk.clara.net>u   JF Mezei wrote:  > issinoho wrote:l > I >>Just got a real cheap new drive from ebay and am having trouble gettinga >>her fired up.o >>F >>Can anyone help me diagnose the problem with this drive. If I try to+ >>INIT it I get a simple 'INIT-F-DEVCMDERR'a >  >  > I > You may wish to try testing the device from the >>> prompt. (as opposedi > from testing it from VMS). > F > Also, isn't there a RZDISK utility that gets/sets parameters of disk > drives from within VMS ?    " So where do I start with RZDISK???   > G > If VMS sees the device, it means that the rom/hardware was able to dos- > sufficient talking to the device to see it.r   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 21:29:59 -0600t2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>" Subject: Re: Possible faulty drive+ Message-ID: <424B6EB7.420CD891@comcast.net>r   issinoho wrote:r > I > Just got a real cheap new drive from ebay and am having trouble gettingl > her fired up.g > F > Can anyone help me diagnose the problem with this drive. If I try to+ > INIT it I get a simple 'INIT-F-DEVCMDERR'e >  > Is it hosed? > [SNIP]   Was it sold as VMS-compatible?  @ Also, what VMS version (are you running, ...was it tested with)?  E I'm seeing "Western Digital" in the DIAG output, and not feeling goode about that for some reason...    -- e David J Dachtera dba DJE Systemsi http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:/" http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e  " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/o   Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 20:21:11 -0800-( From: Jeff Cameron <roktsci@comcast.net>" Subject: Re: Possible faulty drive/ Message-ID: <BE70BAB7.A861%roktsci@comcast.net>0   On 3/30/05 1:24 PM, in article< 1112217947.26826.0@nnrp-t71-03.news.uk.clara.net, "issinoho" <issinoho@gmail.com> wrote:4  G > Port Status               x0000032C  DEVCMDERR - device command error . > SCSI Command Opcode             x12  Inquiry > Command Data& >                                  x00& >                                  x00& >                                  x00& >                                  xFF& >                                  x00H This section of the SCSI command indicates that the driver is requestingJ what I believe to be device geometry information. Evidently it has alreadyJ determined that it is a non removable storage device. However the drive isK reporting that the inquiry code of FF000000 is not valid. What I don't know-< is if FF000000 is or is not valid as a SCSI inquiry command.  J This could either mean the drive is bad, which I think is unlikely, or theF firmware on the drive is not compatible with the driver, which is more likely. But why? I don't know.  L I'm also confused as to why the command is 5 bytes instead of 4. Most narrowJ SCSI commands are two 16 bit words. Is this a narrow SCSI disk? What about# the SCSI bus. Is it narrow or wide?e   Jeff Cameron   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 10:07:38 +0100i* From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>" Subject: Re: Possible faulty drive2 Message-ID: <d2gekq$fer$1@blackmamba.itd.rl.ac.uk>  _ "Jeff Cameron" <roktsci@comcast.net> wrote in message news:BE70BAB7.A861%roktsci@comcast.net...   I > > Port Status               x0000032C  DEVCMDERR - device command errorn0 > > SCSI Command Opcode             x12  Inquiry > > Command Data( > >                                  x00( > >                                  x00( > >                                  x00( > >                                  xFF( > >                                  x00  J > This section of the SCSI command indicates that the driver is requesting3 > what I believe to be device geometry information.g  S Actually, it's just asking for basic device information. Essentially the same stuff D as SHOW DEVICE shows: device type, manufacturer id etc. It must have4 worked (once) to load the disk driver at all though.  N > I'm also confused as to why the command is 5 bytes instead of 4. Most narrow% > SCSI commands are two 16 bit words.   I 6 bytes is the smallest command size, which this is (including the 0x12).g  L I would start looking at the simple things: cabling, termination, bus length: (and width). There doesn't appear to be a clean data path.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 19:23:00 +0100,# From: issinoho <issinoho@gmail.com>f" Subject: Re: Possible faulty drive; Message-ID: <1112293336.19528.0@nnrp-t71-02.news.clara.net>8   Richard Brodie wrote: a > "Jeff Cameron" <roktsci@comcast.net> wrote in message news:BE70BAB7.A861%roktsci@comcast.net...i >  > H >>>Port Status               x0000032C  DEVCMDERR - device command error/ >>>SCSI Command Opcode             x12  Inquiry  >>>Command Datau' >>>                                 x00a' >>>                                 x00 ' >>>                                 x00e' >>>                                 xFF ' >>>                                 x00  >  > J >>This section of the SCSI command indicates that the driver is requesting3 >>what I believe to be device geometry information.1 >  > U > Actually, it's just asking for basic device information. Essentially the same stuffeF > as SHOW DEVICE shows: device type, manufacturer id etc. It must have6 > worked (once) to load the disk driver at all though. >  > N >>I'm also confused as to why the command is 5 bytes instead of 4. Most narrow% >>SCSI commands are two 16 bit words.P >  > K > 6 bytes is the smallest command size, which this is (including the 0x12).C > N > I would start looking at the simple things: cabling, termination, bus length< > (and width). There doesn't appear to be a clean data path. >  >  >  >   C It's on the same cable as my existing drive & CD-ROM which are the  I original kit & work perfectly so I'm thinking that termination & cabling   are not an issue.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 16:15:14 -0500m4 From: "Peter Weaver" <newsgroup@weaverconsulting.ca>" Subject: Re: Possible faulty drive, Message-ID: <3b37j5F6d7b1lU1@individual.net>   issinoho wrote:r >...3 > Unit                                 XXXXX$DKB400-2 > Product Name                         WD91 ULTRA2- > Vendor                               WDIGTLm >...D > It's on the same cable as my existing drive & CD-ROM which are theB > original kit & work perfectly so I'm thinking that termination & > cabling are not an issue.   E Most Alphas I have seen have the CD at SCSI ID 4, but I see that youraD new disk is at 4. Might want to check that you don't have a conflictF there. Or follow Chris' advice and try shortening the line, I rememberD that he and I spent a long time scratching our heads over that 1000.   -- c Peter Weaver Weaver Consulting Services Inc.k Canadian VAR for CHARON-VAX  www.weaverconsulting.ca    ------------------------------   Date: 1 Apr 2005 03:06:41 -0800  From: mcbill20@yahoo.com4 Subject: Procedure for installing PERL modules (LWP)B Message-ID: <1112353601.347455.80370@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>  > Hello. I have the latest PERL and MOD_PERL from the HP websiteG installed (5.6-1 update 3) on a 7.3-1 system. It seems to work fine buttF I can't seem to get the Useragent module to work. The message I get is( that PERL can't find it in the lib path.  E To be honest, I don't have the slightest clue how to add a new moduletF to PERL. I've searched this group and quite a few VMS/PERL websites. IG find lots of references to LWP but usually they just say "install LWP",a5 assuming that the reader knows how to do this on VMS.L  ; Can anyone point me to any documentation on how to do this?:  
 Thank you. Bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 11:22:22 -0600p6 From: "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@mac.com.spamfooler>8 Subject: Re: Procedure for installing PERL modules (LWP)D Message-ID: <craigberry-19E007.11222201042005@news.isp.giganews.com>  B In article <1112353601.347455.80370@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,  mcbill20@yahoo.com wrote:  @ > Hello. I have the latest PERL and MOD_PERL from the HP websiteI > installed (5.6-1 update 3) on a 7.3-1 system. It seems to work fine butnH > I can't seem to get the Useragent module to work. The message I get is* > that PERL can't find it in the lib path. > G > To be honest, I don't have the slightest clue how to add a new moduleeH > to PERL. I've searched this group and quite a few VMS/PERL websites. II > find lots of references to LWP but usually they just say "install LWP", 7 > assuming that the reader knows how to do this on VMS.  > = > Can anyone point me to any documentation on how to do this?e   $ perldoc perlmodinstall  C and flip through until you get to the VMS section, or see the same h documentation at:   7 http://search.cpan.org/dist/perl/pod/perlmodinstall.pod    The basic steps are:   $ perl Makefile.PL $ mmsl
 $ mms test
 $ mms installf  F If you don't already have it, you can get the latest LWP distribution 
 from here:  / http://search.cpan.org/~gaas/libwww-perl-5.803/t   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Mar 2005 07:35:51 -0600 From: briggs@encompasserve.org, Subject: Re: Question on DCL f<dollar>string3 Message-ID: <m13+9pkkIEX$@eisner.encompasserve.org>3  p In article <OF0AC3F43B.E4F1EAE5-ON85256FD1.000E66E4-85256FD2.0008717B@metso.com>, norm.raphael@metso.com writes:- > This is a multipart message in MIME format.,$ > --=_alternative 0008717485256FD2_=. > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > ; > Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> wrote on 03/26/2005 07:35:20 PM:0 >   >> norm.raphael@metso.com wrote: >> > PK >> > All responses so far add nicely to the literature and I found them at d >> > worst interesting, 9 >> > but they do not answer my questions about f$integer,k5 >> > just in case someone would like to address them.a >> > r >> t2 >> I suppose you mean f$string, and not f$integer. > 1 > Yes, I did.  Appologies for getting that worgn.  > J > As I suspected and you have confirmed, the original coder either simply  > got J > lucky or meant to use f$string [got it right that time] another way and J > messed up but got the desired result anyway.  I'm going to change it to E > one of the suggested simpler-to-parse-for-the-next-person versions.s > Thanks to you all. > D > By the way, if I use the string "02" and F$Fao("!2ZL", then I get  > 
 > $ last="02"l > $ last =  F$Fao("!2ZL",last) > $ sho sym last >   LAST = "**"e  F You're passing the value of string variable last to F$FAO.  Since lastF is currently of type string, it is passed by descriptor.  The relevantC format effector is !2ZL, so F$FAO expects the argument to be passednE by value.  Accordingly, it takes the address of the string descriptord? and attempts to format it as a numeric value.  Since the string ? descriptor is not located in the first 100 bytes of memory, then result is "**".    $ last = "02" ( $ write sys$output f$fao ( "!XL", last ) 7FFAC02C  F As you can see, the string descriptor was allocated at virtual address %x7FFAC02C.   A The key thing to remember about F$FAO is that DCL doesn't pay anyrB attention at all to the control string that you pass in.  DCL just< passes that control string along to the $FAO system service.  H In particular, DCL does not try to look at the FAO control string to seeA if the first formatting directive calls for a numeric by value infC order to determine how to pass the first argument.  Instead it usesa a very simple algorithm:  D o If passing a string variable or a string-valued expression, createE   a temporary string descriptor and pass the descriptor by reference.e  C o If passing an integer variable or integer-valued expression, pass    it by value.  	 > and if 0 > $ last = 2 > $ last =  F$Fao("!AS",last)c> > %SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO, access violation, reason mask=00, virtual  > address=000000000003( > 8248, PC=0000000000110001, PS=7FFABF90 > $-  C Others have adequately addressed this case.  You pass an integer byo0 value and FAO tries to treat it as a descriptor.   	John Briggs   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Mar 2005 16:52:31 -0800 From: dooleys@snowy.net.au Subject: Re: reading RS232 porteC Message-ID: <1112057551.613467.215310@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>e  
 Pat wrote:E > I'm using a microVax 4000 under VMS and I'm trying to read the datam on, > a RS232 port (TX) using a Fortran program.@ > I already can write data on tis port using the SYS$QIOW system servicet > but I can't read the port .aF > I've tried to replace the WRITEVBLK by the READVBLK  in the SYS$QIOW% > command but it don't seems to work./1 > Can somebody give me the correct way to do thiso8 If you look in sys$examples for files starting with dte,- there is an example of using $qio to do this.p: If your system is old enough the example may be in fortran+ otherwise you will have to translate from ce Phil   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 19:43:39 +0200?, From: Albrecht Schlosser <ajs856@tiscali.de> Subject: Re: reading RS232 portI, Message-ID: <hgoe2d.a8a.ln@news.hus-soft.de>   Jack Peacock wrote:e  6 > "Pat" <patrick.ronsmans@skynet.be> wrote in message 9 > news:54f4941c.0503270123.2c49a85d@posting.google.com...m > H >>I'm using a microVax 4000 under VMS and I'm trying to read the data on, >>a RS232 port (TX) using a Fortran program.H >>I already can write data on tis port using the SYS$QIOW system service >>but I can't read the port .s >> > L > If your serial port is on a DECserver be aware you must write to the port H > before you can read from it.  Be sure to send out a NUL or some other  > character first. >   Jack Peacock y  H Writing to the port does an implicit (LAT) connect, but you can also do H it directly (I don't have it right now, but I can find the code). There D is a LAT-specific connect call - and a disconnect as well. However, J using this would require that you know that it's a LAT (application) port.  E With (newer) DECservers you can also use TCP/IP, and this would need l other (socket) functions.l  F Your way, writing to the port first, is the most "portable", but less * robust, because you have no error control.   Albrecht   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 04:49:59 GMTs  From: John Santos <john@egh.com> Subject: Re: reading RS232 portK+ Message-ID: <XjL2e.35066$mq2.1051@trnddc08>    Albrecht Schlosser wrote:s > Jack Peacock wrote:s > 7 >> "Pat" <patrick.ronsmans@skynet.be> wrote in message p: >> news:54f4941c.0503270123.2c49a85d@posting.google.com... >>J >>> I'm using a microVax 4000 under VMS and I'm trying to read the data on. >>> a RS232 port (TX) using a Fortran program.G If this ----------^^ means a TX device (e.g. TXA0:) then all this stuffhG about LAT ports is a digression.  (Though useful; I never new about theyD implicit connect on write before.  This explains why LAT connectionsB functioned intermittently in some programs before I added explicitF LAT connects.  It was one of those mysterious "Now I've found the bug,7 how did this ever work in the first place" situations.)s  J >>> I already can write data on tis port using the SYS$QIOW system service >>> but I can't read the port .9 >>>n >>H >> If your serial port is on a DECserver be aware you must write to the H >> port before you can read from it.  Be sure to send out a NUL or some  >> other character first.h >>   Jack Peacock  >  > J > Writing to the port does an implicit (LAT) connect, but you can also do J > it directly (I don't have it right now, but I can find the code). There F > is a LAT-specific connect call - and a disconnect as well. However, L > using this would require that you know that it's a LAT (application) port.  E Was the implicit LAT connect feature always there (VMS V4.x?), or wase it added later?5  G > With (newer) DECservers you can also use TCP/IP, and this would need i > other (socket) functions.  > H > Your way, writing to the port first, is the most "portable", but less , > robust, because you have no error control. > 
 > Albrecht   -- s John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Mar 2005 07:49:01 -0600 From: briggs@encompasserve.org Subject: Re: reading RS232 porto3 Message-ID: <JBTxu+p8xv55@eisner.encompasserve.org>l  _ In article <46Gdna6qZJ-1ktrfRVn-tg@mpowercom.net>, "Jack Peacock" <peacock@simconv.com> writes:I6 > "Pat" <patrick.ronsmans@skynet.be> wrote in message 9 > news:54f4941c.0503270123.2c49a85d@posting.google.com... I >> I'm using a microVax 4000 under VMS and I'm trying to read the data onc- >> a RS232 port (TX) using a Fortran program.aI >> I already can write data on tis port using the SYS$QIOW system service- >> but I can't read the port . >>L > If your serial port is on a DECserver be aware you must write to the port H > before you can read from it.  Be sure to send out a NUL or some other  > character first.  F Strictly speaking, this is not a requirement.  However, it is a simple shortcut that is often useful.  G The real requirement is that before you use a port on a terminal server E you must first associate it with an LTAxxx device on the VMS machine.a  > The system manager will often use LATCP to establish a default association:   	$ MCR LATCP9 	LCP> CREATE PORT LTA1234 /SERVER=DECSERVER3 /PORT=PORT_1   B However this is only a _DEFAULT_ association.  It is not an active@ connection.  If input comes in the DECSERVER port, the DECSERVERB doesn't know anything about the VMS machine yet.  It has no active$ connection associated with the port.  A There are [at least] two ways to make a connection to a DECservert active.|  B o You can use the IO$_LT_CONNECT (sp?) function code to explicitlyF   establish the connection between VMS LTAxxx device and the DECserver   port.e  @ o You can write something to the LTAxxx device.  The driver willA   automatically create a connection using the default associationC   established by LATCP.t   	John Briggs   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 17:36:22 +0000 (UTC)c= From: jlw@psulias.psu.edu (j.lance wilkinson, (814) 865-1818)l1 Subject: Re: Request for feedback - Remote CTRL-Tc- Message-ID: <d2eo2m$q74$1@f04n12.cac.psu.edu>o  ] In article <4233fdfc@usenet01.boi.hp.com>, "Guy Peleg" <guy.peleg@remove_this_hp.com> writes:t >Hello All,t >n 	...8 >Do you like the idea of remote CTRL-T? Will you be able >to use it?)  8 	*I* would certainly use it.   Even better if there were: 	some DCL command stream examples to demonstrate its usage 	somewhere or the other....e  P +----"Never Underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of mag tapes"--+B | J.Lance Wilkinson ("Lance")		InterNet:  Lance.Wilkinson@psu.edu < | Systems Design Specialist - Lead	AT&T:      (814) 865-18189 | Digital Library Technologies		FAX:       (814) 863-3560 2 | 3 Paterno Library				"I'd rather be dancing..." B | Penn State University		    A host is a host from coast to coast,K | University Park, PA 16802	    And no one will talk to a host that's closeoC | <postmaster@psulias.psu.edu>	    Unless the host that isn't close.: | EMail Professional since 1978	    Is busy, hung or dead.P +---------"He's dead, Jim. I'll get his tricorder. You take his wallet."-------+9                 [apologies to DeForest Kelley, 1920-1999] 3 <A Href="http://perdita.lcs.psu.edu">home page</a>  J <a Href="http://perdita.lcs.psu.edu/junkdec.htm">junk mail declaration</a> --	/"\ 	\ /	ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN 	 X	AGAINST HTML MAILh 	/ \   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Mar 2005 05:11:01 -0800' From: philip.tregoning@gmail.com (Phil)s) Subject: Restartable file transfer servero= Message-ID: <90ba3fc8.0503310511.1fc06802@posting.google.com>    Hello,  F Are there any TCP/IP based restartable file transfer servers available? for VMS/Alpha?  The standard TCP/IP Services FTP server says it > doens't support the REST command (as seen by HELP /REMOTE when connected from an FTP client).  3 This is for a system running VMS 7.1-2 and UCX 4.2.d   Thanks,'     Phil T   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Mar 2005 11:18:21 -0800) From: "Phil" <philip.tregoning@gmail.com>a- Subject: Re: Restartable file transfer servertC Message-ID: <1112296701.279895.134080@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>   E Thanks, that might be an option, but I thought FTSO had been retired.p  F Some more info: we want to transfer about 2GB a day (or 1GB zipped up)E over a leased line. Leased lines are expensive, so we'll probably endpG up getting the slowest that will do the job in under 12 hours or so (ifTE the line goes down for an extended period we have to be able to catch @ up). In case of more minor glitches we really want to be able toE restart failed transfers. This should be a fully automated procedure.   G The problem is I'm not going to have much say in what the machine is at B the other end. It'll probably be a Solaris or Windows box (which I6 don't think ever ran FTSO). What I was hoping for was:  D o Some way of getting a resumable FTP server working on VMS - either* the HP one or perhaps some other vendor's.@ o Some widely available software that can do the same thing. ForD example C-Kermit - except the VMS version doesn't support the server mode.'  E Another alternative is to stick another box (running Solaris or Linux G or something) in the middle. I don't really want to have to say that ise9 the only reliable way of getting data from a VMS machine!r   Phil   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Mar 2005 13:32:39 -0800* From: "Alan Greig" <greigaln@netscape.net>- Subject: Re: Restartable file transfer server-C Message-ID: <1112304758.963276.150560@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>    Phil wrote:g > Hello, >i> > Are there any TCP/IP based restartable file transfer servers	 availableDA > for VMS/Alpha?  The standard TCP/IP Services FTP server says itb@ > doens't support the REST command (as seen by HELP /REMOTE when  > connected from an FTP client). > 5 > This is for a system running VMS 7.1-2 and UCX 4.2.h  F I am fairly sure it is in current (post 5.n) TCPIP Services (UCX). UCXE 4.2 is pretty old. Failing that it's in MadGoat FTP if that's what ite is still called.  r	 > Thanks,t > 
 >   Phil T   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Mar 2005 13:45:42 -0800* From: "Alan Greig" <greigaln@netscape.net>- Subject: Re: Restartable file transfer server4C Message-ID: <1112305542.604758.188580@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>    Phil wrote:dG > Thanks, that might be an option, but I thought FTSO had been retired.m >tD > Some more info: we want to transfer about 2GB a day (or 1GB zipped up)yG > over a leased line. Leased lines are expensive, so we'll probably endhE > up getting the slowest that will do the job in under 12 hours or soa (if   F So you need roughly 256K bit/sec (zipped). That's so low that even theG slowest home Internet broadband connections will do it in 12 hours. Far D cheaper than leased lines. Want more reliability then spend a littleF more on business broadband connection and bypass the usual 256K uplink@ speed limit on home users. If the link goes down use ISDN backupE (probably router initiated for transparency). Worried about security?r VPN tunnel encrypt it.     --
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Mar 2005 16:57:02 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)t- Subject: Re: Restartable file transfer servere3 Message-ID: <fdLc0eEbFcwU@eisner.encompasserve.org>   o In article <1112296701.279895.134080@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>, "Phil" <philip.tregoning@gmail.com> writes:pG > Thanks, that might be an option, but I thought FTSO had been retired.i  C FTSO is available on DISK$FREEWARE70_1: in a directory which I willu make you guess.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 20:54:09 -0600o2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>- Subject: Re: Restartable file transfer servern+ Message-ID: <424CB7D1.68568482@comcast.net>g   Phil wrote:M > G > Thanks, that might be an option, but I thought FTSO had been retired.e > H > Some more info: we want to transfer about 2GB a day (or 1GB zipped up)G > over a leased line. Leased lines are expensive, so we'll probably end:I > up getting the slowest that will do the job in under 12 hours or so (ifsG > the line goes down for an extended period we have to be able to catchrB > up). In case of more minor glitches we really want to be able toG > restart failed transfers. This should be a fully automated procedure.o  G Consider splitting your .ZIP archives up into more palatable chunks. At C http://www.djesys.com/freeware/vms/ , you'll find 4038_freeware.zipsF which includes a SPLIT.COM procedure and a README file. Split your 1GBA .ZIP archive into 100 10MB (20480 block) chunks, or even 10 100MB D (204800 block) chunks. Have the transfer procedure use COPY/FTP, andF RENAME the files after each transfer completes successfully. That way,F you know which chunk was in transit when the line dropped, and you can restart from that chunk.  H Otherwise, look into Madgoat FTP as Alan suggested. Maybe that can help.   -- o David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:i" http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/s  " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/s   Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Apr 2005 01:15:31 -0800.) From: "Phil" <philip.tregoning@gmail.com>r- Subject: Re: Restartable file transfer serverFC Message-ID: <1112346931.751652.134330@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   B Neither the TCPIP 5.1 FTP server, nor the HGFTP 3.1 FTP server (exD MadGoat) say they support the REST command. Also, I can't resume FTP* transfers from Firefox to either of them.    Phil   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Apr 2005 01:29:28 -08001) From: "Phil" <philip.tregoning@gmail.com>e- Subject: Re: Restartable file transfer servertC Message-ID: <1112347768.601769.234680@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>   F I wish. We've already got easily enough internet bandwidth - but it isE policy to not rely on the internet for production operations. I'm not # going to be able get that changed:(l   Phil   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Apr 2005 05:52:12 -0800r* From: "Alan Greig" <greigaln@netscape.net>- Subject: Re: Restartable file transfer servereC Message-ID: <1112363532.051734.295820@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>S   Phil wrote:oD > Neither the TCPIP 5.1 FTP server, nor the HGFTP 3.1 FTP server (exF > MadGoat) say they support the REST command. Also, I can't resume FTP+ > transfers from Firefox to either of them.d  C Maybe someone from the TCPIP team can chip in here. Unfortunately I G don't have immediate access to a system to check this but I did rely onbD this for certain transfers with a particular application a couple of? years ago unless my memory is playing tricks. There is a slighttD possibility I am thinking of the retired Wow-long-gone ftp server or  whatever it was actually called.  E Failing that just, as another poster suggested, chop it into bits and  re-assemble.   > Phil   -- .
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Apr 2005 06:10:53 -0800 * From: "Alan Greig" <greigaln@netscape.net>- Subject: Re: Restartable file transfer servereC Message-ID: <1112364652.984961.219930@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>g   Alan Greig wrote:o >bA > years ago unless my memory is playing tricks. There is a slighthF > possibility I am thinking of the retired Wow-long-gone ftp server or" > whatever it was actually called. > E I'm starting to wonder now if I did it via restartable http transfersgD under a VMS web server. Both a web server and Wollongong ftp were on# the server (VAX) I am thinking of. c   >  > -- l > Alan Greig   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 02:28:04 +0800  From: prep@prep.synonet.com - Subject: Re: Restartable file transfer servers- Message-ID: <87fyyanyh7.fsf@prep.synonet.com>h  ( "ste.kaze" <ste.kaze@wanadoo.fr> writes:  G > "Phil" <philip.tregoning@gmail.com> a crit dans le message de news:  4 > 90ba3fc8.0503310511.1fc06802@posting.google.com...	 >> Hello,n >>I >> Are there any TCP/IP based restartable file transfer servers availableTB >> for VMS/Alpha?  The standard TCP/IP Services FTP server says itA >> doens't support the REST command (as seen by HELP /REMOTE whenW! >> connected from an FTP client).e >>6 >> This is for a system running VMS 7.1-2 and UCX 4.2. >>
 >> Thanks, >>
 >>  Phil T > N > FTSO, which is FTSV (file transfer spooler for Vms ...) using IP instead of  > Decnet, should do it.w >p > buy it at HP    4 It is on the latest FREEWARE kit. Both are in fact..   -- g< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.T@                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Mar 2005 16:36:59 -0800! From: "mikec" <mcoyne@ll.mit.edu>)& Subject: RGB to VGA rackmount monitorsC Message-ID: <1112229419.620358.234650@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>e  + I am trying to find a rackmount LCD monitoro$ that I can use with our VAX 4000/90A  ) Does anyone know what is a good RACKMOUNT6, monitor we are limited on our space and will: be switching between a SUN Ultra-10 and a Alpha Server-300   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 03:05:39 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>p( Subject: Re: Script Kiddie tarpit wanted0 Message-ID: <114pvjs44c7mlc1@corp.supernews.com>   John Smith wrote:t > Rick Barry wrote:  > E >>I was going to mention "sticky" honeypot software as an interestingnF >>tool for this sort of problem, but...see http://www.hackbusters.net/B >>for some interesting legal issues that popped up in the state ofE >>Illinois as discussed by the author of one such honeypot -- LaBrea.  >>A >>Your safest bet may be to detect, block, and log these attempts / >>rather than to manipulate the communications.  >>F >>Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer and I don't attempt to interpetate the >>law. >  >  >  > , > Re-read Cliff Stoll's book for some ideas. > N > There's nothing illegal with you mainipulating your own system to respond inL > certain ways depending upon who is attempting to login. You aren't causingN > any physical damage to the perp (unlike say having a tripwire and a Claymore0 > inside your front door to deal with burglars). >  >   H I'd agree with you, but the person providing you with software to do so ) might be a bit more vulnerable to attack.   F The real issue is the special interests groups, such as MPAA, getting I special consideration from government.  I'm not a proponent of stealing,  F but some think the world exists solely for their benefit.  The entire  MDCA should be repealed.  9 Me, I'm rather partial to the tripwire and claymore.  :-)C   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 08:45:45 -0800 4 From: Alan Frisbie <Usenet02_REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com>$ Subject: Script Kiddie tarpit wanted$ Message-ID: <1112287428.95610@smirk>  = Since I like to have remote Internet access to my VMS system, - I have my firewall forward SSH packets to it.   8 However, every day or so, I am alerted by the beeping of> OPCOM messages that someone is making repeated login attempts.8 I am not worried about them getting in, but I find their feeble attempts annoying.C  < I am thinking of creating captive accounts that these script9 kiddies would be likely to try (root/<null>, guest/guest, ; god/god, etc.).   The captive procedure should appear to be ; some variant of Unix, appear to sort-of work, while wasting 8 as much of their time as possible.   Meanwhile it should< log everything to a file for my later amusement.   (Yes, I'm that sick!)   : I seem to recall that someone created such a DCL procedure: years ago, but I can't seem to find it.   Can anyone point; me to something that would give me a start on this project?l  9 Along the same line, is there any way I can find out whatc8 username/password combinations these kiddies are trying?, Accounting doesn't seem to provide anything.   Thanks,m Alan   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 18:45:09 +0000 (UTC)n. From: klewis@LUMINA.MITRE.ORG (Keith A. Lewis)( Subject: Re: Script Kiddie tarpit wanted. Message-ID: <d2hgfl$ob4$3@newslocal.mitre.org>   Alan Frisbie <Usenet02_REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com> writes in article <1112287428.95610@smirk> dated Thu, 31 Mar 2005 08:45:45 -0800:: >Along the same line, is there any way I can find out what9 >username/password combinations these kiddies are trying? - >Accounting doesn't seem to provide anything.t  	 Try this:o $ anal/aud/event=breakin /full  0 --Keith Lewis              klewis {at} mitre.org> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 20:47:57 +0200-" From: labadie <labadie_g@decus.fr>( Subject: Re: Script Kiddie tarpit wanted7 Message-ID: <424c45dd$0$11713$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>y   Alan Frisbie a crit :? > Since I like to have remote Internet access to my VMS system,r/ > I have my firewall forward SSH packets to it.l > : > However, every day or so, I am alerted by the beeping of@ > OPCOM messages that someone is making repeated login attempts.: > I am not worried about them getting in, but I find their > feeble attempts annoying.l > > > I am thinking of creating captive accounts that these script; > kiddies would be likely to try (root/<null>, guest/guest,g= > god/god, etc.).   The captive procedure should appear to bea= > some variant of Unix, appear to sort-of work, while wastingS: > as much of their time as possible.   Meanwhile it should> > log everything to a file for my later amusement.   (Yes, I'm
 > that sick!)  > < > I seem to recall that someone created such a DCL procedure< > years ago, but I can't seem to find it.   Can anyone point= > me to something that would give me a start on this project?1 > ; > Along the same line, is there any way I can find out what:: > username/password combinations these kiddies are trying?. > Accounting doesn't seem to provide anything. > 	 > Thanks,6 > AlanH ana/audit/full used to show the username and password; but I think this  is no longer true    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 19:14:57 GMT ) From: "Rick Barry" <richard.barry@hp.com> ( Subject: Re: Script Kiddie tarpit wanted2 Message-ID: <R_X2e.2664$G22.1111@news.cpqcorp.net>  L I was going to mention "sticky" honeypot software as an interesting tool forD this sort of problem, but...see http://www.hackbusters.net/ for someC interesting legal issues that popped up in the state of Illinois asa7 discussed by the author of one such honeypot -- LaBrea.o  K Your safest bet may be to detect, block, and log these attempts rather thand! to manipulate the communications.d  I Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer and I don't attempt to interpetate the law.h  
 Rick Barry OpenVMS System Software GroupI Hewlett-Packard Companye
 Nashua, NH  A "Alan Frisbie" <Usenet02_REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com> wrote in message  news:1112287428.95610@smirk...? > Since I like to have remote Internet access to my VMS system,a/ > I have my firewall forward SSH packets to it.  >a: > However, every day or so, I am alerted by the beeping of@ > OPCOM messages that someone is making repeated login attempts.: > I am not worried about them getting in, but I find their > feeble attempts annoying.P >i> > I am thinking of creating captive accounts that these script; > kiddies would be likely to try (root/<null>, guest/guest, = > god/god, etc.).   The captive procedure should appear to be = > some variant of Unix, appear to sort-of work, while wastingC: > as much of their time as possible.   Meanwhile it should> > log everything to a file for my later amusement.   (Yes, I'm
 > that sick!)  >0< > I seem to recall that someone created such a DCL procedure< > years ago, but I can't seem to find it.   Can anyone point= > me to something that would give me a start on this project?v >i; > Along the same line, is there any way I can find out whati: > username/password combinations these kiddies are trying?. > Accounting doesn't seem to provide anything. >o	 > Thanks,t > Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 17:35:21 -0500l# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> ( Subject: Re: Script Kiddie tarpit wanted, Message-ID: <YcSdncXmgLGx5tHfRVn-hA@igs.net>   Rick Barry wrote:eE > I was going to mention "sticky" honeypot software as an interesting F > tool for this sort of problem, but...see http://www.hackbusters.net/B > for some interesting legal issues that popped up in the state ofE > Illinois as discussed by the author of one such honeypot -- LaBrea.  >iA > Your safest bet may be to detect, block, and log these attemptss/ > rather than to manipulate the communications.a >tF > Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer and I don't attempt to interpetate the > law.      * Re-read Cliff Stoll's book for some ideas.  L There's nothing illegal with you mainipulating your own system to respond inJ certain ways depending upon who is attempting to login. You aren't causingL any physical damage to the perp (unlike say having a tripwire and a Claymore. inside your front door to deal with burglars).   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 01:57:14 +0200 & From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@decus.ch>( Subject: Re: Script Kiddie tarpit wanted, Message-ID: <3b3h2qF6e2gh0U1@individual.net>   Alan Frisbie wrote:c  ? > Since I like to have remote Internet access to my VMS system,t/ > I have my firewall forward SSH packets to it.p > E Well, in the couple or so years I had ssh open (and routed to my VMS e. system at home) there was only one ssh attack.  D IIRC I found the evidence in operator.log, the accounting file, and % maybe the audit log (not all 3 IIRC).y  B This was a deliberate one-off attack though, as I'd clearly upset I someone who was offering what I considered to be a scam, and he'd picked u* up my ip address from his web server logs.   Be careful folks...t   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 23:58:12 GMTM6 From: "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@NOSPAM.spyderbyte.com>( Subject: Re: Script Kiddie tarpit wanted< Message-ID: <o803e.6080$9v2.223671@twister.southeast.rr.com>  B "Alan Frisbie" <Usenet02_REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com> wrote in message  news:1112287428.95610@smirk...? > Since I like to have remote Internet access to my VMS system, / > I have my firewall forward SSH packets to it.  > : > However, every day or so, I am alerted by the beeping of@ > OPCOM messages that someone is making repeated login attempts.: > I am not worried about them getting in, but I find their > feeble attempts annoying.& >r [snip]; > Along the same line, is there any way I can find out whati: > username/password combinations these kiddies are trying?. > Accounting doesn't seem to provide anything. [snip]  L Here's a days worth.  Psssword is usually "password" or "none" in this case.  2 adm/password from ::ffff:220.95.215.148: 2 Time(s)8    apache/password from ::ffff:220.95.215.148: 1 Time(s)8    cosmin/password from ::ffff:220.95.215.148: 1 Time(s)7    cyrus/password from ::ffff:220.95.215.148: 1 Time(s)-7    horde/password from ::ffff:220.95.215.148: 1 Time(s) 9    iceuser/password from ::ffff:220.95.215.148: 1 Time(s)m5    irc/password from ::ffff:220.95.215.148: 2 Time(s)26    jane/password from ::ffff:220.95.215.148: 1 Time(s)6    matt/password from ::ffff:220.95.215.148: 1 Time(s)7    mysql/password from ::ffff:220.95.215.148: 1 Time(s)a8    nobody/password from ::ffff:220.95.215.148: 1 Time(s):    operator/password from ::ffff:220.95.215.148: 1 Time(s)8    pamela/password from ::ffff:220.95.215.148: 1 Time(s)9    patrick/password from ::ffff:220.95.215.148: 2 Time(s)M6    rolo/password from ::ffff:220.95.215.148: 1 Time(s)7    root/password from ::ffff:220.95.215.148: 20 Time(s)e6    test/password from ::ffff:220.95.215.148: 4 Time(s):    www-data/password from ::ffff:220.95.215.148: 1 Time(s)5    www/password from ::ffff:220.95.215.148: 1 Time(s)p8    wwwrun/password from ::ffff:220.95.215.148: 1 Time(s)  4 andrew/password from ::ffff:66.139.78.199: 1 Time(s)6    angel/password from ::ffff:66.139.78.199: 1 Time(s)8    barbara/password from ::ffff:66.139.78.199: 1 Time(s)6    betty/password from ::ffff:66.139.78.199: 1 Time(s)6    billy/password from ::ffff:66.139.78.199: 1 Time(s)8    brandon/password from ::ffff:66.139.78.199: 1 Time(s)6    brian/password from ::ffff:66.139.78.199: 1 Time(s)6    buddy/password from ::ffff:66.139.78.199: 1 Time(s)7    carmen/password from ::ffff:66.139.78.199: 1 Time(s) 8    charlie/password from ::ffff:66.139.78.199: 1 Time(s)7    daniel/password from ::ffff:66.139.78.199: 1 Time(s)n6    david/password from ::ffff:66.139.78.199: 1 Time(s)6    emily/password from ::ffff:66.139.78.199: 1 Time(s)5    eric/password from ::ffff:66.139.78.199: 1 Time(s) 4    god/password from ::ffff:66.139.78.199: 1 Time(s)5    jane/password from ::ffff:66.139.78.199: 1 Time(s)t6    jason/password from ::ffff:66.139.78.199: 1 Time(s)7    jeremy/password from ::ffff:66.139.78.199: 1 Time(s)l4    joe/password from ::ffff:66.139.78.199: 1 Time(s)7    johnny/password from ::ffff:66.139.78.199: 1 Time(s)f7    jordan/password from ::ffff:66.139.78.199: 1 Time(s)s7    justin/password from ::ffff:66.139.78.199: 1 Time(s)b7    larisa/password from ::ffff:66.139.78.199: 1 Time(s)e5    lion/password from ::ffff:66.139.78.199: 1 Time(s)e5    lucy/password from ::ffff:66.139.78.199: 1 Time(s)s6    magic/password from ::ffff:66.139.78.199: 1 Time(s)5    mail/password from ::ffff:66.139.78.199: 1 Time(s)26    maria/password from ::ffff:66.139.78.199: 1 Time(s)4    max/password from ::ffff:66.139.78.199: 1 Time(s)8    michael/password from ::ffff:66.139.78.199: 1 Time(s)9    nicholas/password from ::ffff:66.139.78.199: 1 Time(s) 7    nicole/password from ::ffff:66.139.78.199: 1 Time(s)r8    nobody/password from ::ffff:210.21.119.178: 1 Time(s)8    nobody/password from ::ffff:220.248.72.150: 1 Time(s)9    patrick/password from ::ffff:210.21.119.178: 2 Time(s)k6    robin/password from ::ffff:66.139.78.199: 1 Time(s)5    rose/password from ::ffff:66.139.78.199: 1 Time(s) 8    stephen/password from ::ffff:66.139.78.199: 1 Time(s)7    steven/password from ::ffff:66.139.78.199: 1 Time(s)e4    tom/password from ::ffff:66.139.78.199: 1 Time(s)8    vampire/password from ::ffff:66.139.78.199: 1 Time(s)8    william/password from ::ffff:66.139.78.199: 1 Time(s)  5 Ionutz/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)a6    Melk/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)7    aaron/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)25    abc/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 2 Time(s)(9    abraham/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)p5    ace/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)c7    adela/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)r5    adi/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s) 8    adidas/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)8    admin/password from ::ffff:218.189.179.242: 2 Time(s)6    admin/password from ::ffff:66.197.144.69: 2 Time(s)8    adonix/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)8    adrian/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)5    adv/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)e7    agata/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s) 6    ahto/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)7    ajiro/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)o6    alan/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)6    aldo/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s);    alejandro/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)e7    aleon/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)y6    alex/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s);    alexandru/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)s8    alfred/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)7    alias/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)o7    alice/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)n7    alina/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)f6    alka/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)9    almacen/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s) 9    altunin/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)F6    amar/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s);    ambulator/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)a9    amoswon/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)-5    amy/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)n6    anca/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 2 Time(s)9    ancutza/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s) 7    andor/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)'8    andres/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)8    andrew/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)9    andreyd/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)e6    ange/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)8    angela/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s):    annuaire/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s);    anonymous/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)r8    antica/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)7    antik/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)o:    aolivari/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)7    apate/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)r9    arasawa/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)a5    arc/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)o9    arendus/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)@8    areyes/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)9    armenta/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)46    army/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)6    arno/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)8    arthur/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)6    asai/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)5    ash/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)p7    asien/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s) 8    asmeja/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)8    astral/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)5    atb/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)t7    atina/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s) 8    attack/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)9    augusto/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)o9    aurelia/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s),5    ave/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)o9    avenues/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)b9    awstats/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 2 Time(s)r8    axente/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)7    ayase/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)u6    babe/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)7    babes/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)k8    backup/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s):    balashov/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)6    band/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s):    barbaral/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)5    bea/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)m7    beach/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s) 9    beleaua/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)u8    bigman/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)9    bobrien/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)a8    bogdan/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s):    bootcamp/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)9    borisov/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s) ;    bountiful/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s) 7    boxer/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s) 8    branza/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)8    bremar/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)8    brenda/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)6    bret/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)7    brian/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)v:    brittany/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)6    bula/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)8    calcul/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)7    calin/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)f:    callhome/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)6    card/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)7    carlo/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)o5    cat/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)e;    cdvonline/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s) 8    cecile/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)9    central/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)-:    cerasela/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)8    cheese/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)7    chest/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)67    chimi/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)o7    chris/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)t7    chuck/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)5:    cimpeanu/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)8    ciorap/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)9    ciprian/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s) 7    cisco/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)c:    cityline/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)7    cizma/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)c7    clara/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s) 9    claudia/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)q9    claudiu/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)u:    claudius/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)8    client/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)7    clips/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)r6    cncp/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)8    coffee/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s):    contabil/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)9    contact/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s) 8    contat/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s):    contempo/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)8    corbus/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)9    cordell/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s) 7    corey/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s) 8    cornel/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)6    cory/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)9    cosinus/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)a8    coupon/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)9    courier/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)-6    cris/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)8    crisan/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)8    cristi/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s):    cristina/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)4    cs/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)6    cucu/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)6    curt/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)5    cvs/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)i:    cyberbob/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)8    daemon/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)<    daikanyama/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)5    dan/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s).6    dana/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 2 Time(s)8    daniel/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)9    daniela/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)h7    danny/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)s7    dante/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)	9    danutza/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)s9    darkman/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s) 9    darrens/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s) 9    dascalu/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s) 6    dave/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)7    david/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s).8    diabet/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)5    die/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)C:    dispecer/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)5    dnp/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)85    dog/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)R7    doina/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)57    donna/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)h7    doomi/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)a7    dorin/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)s8    dorina/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)7    dover/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)h7    drweb/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)n7    duane/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)e7    dummy/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)i7    ebata/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)r:    echopedi/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)7    eddie/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)t9    editors/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)o5    edu/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)a8    eladio/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)7    eleni/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)17    ellen/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)r8    emelie/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)9    emuleon/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)a5    end/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s) 6    eric/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)6    erin/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)8    ernest/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)9    etambra/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)a7    eugen/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)h5    eva/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)a7    evara/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)c6    exim/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)7    fabes/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)l9    fabrice/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s) :    farmacia/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)7    farul/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)-5    fax/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s) 7    felix/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)t8    filter/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)6    fish/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)8    florin/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)8    flower/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)8    fluffy/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)9    folkert/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)e8    foobar/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)7    fords/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)r9    foreign/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s).8    fotbal/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s):    fotograf/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)5    fox/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s) 7    frank/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)R7    franz/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s).6    fred/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)9    freebsd/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s) 6    frog/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)9    ftpuser/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s) 7    funny/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s) :    galleria/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)7    garda/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)p7    gemss/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)r6    gene/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)7    geoff/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)i:    geoffrey/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)7    gerri/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)g6    gigi/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)5    gis/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)c6    gold/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)5    gov/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)l8    graham/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s):    gratiela/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)7    grave/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)06    greg/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 2 Time(s)7    gruiz/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)b9    gubanov/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)n8    guest/password from ::ffff:218.189.179.242: 1 Time(s)7    guest/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)36    guest/password from ::ffff:66.197.144.69: 1 Time(s)6    guma/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)6    hack/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)8    haitac/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)7    hansa/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s) 9    hayatsu/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s))8    healer/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)7    heinz/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)h7    helen/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)f8    helena/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)7    hello/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s) 4    hi/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)7    hipop/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)c7    horia/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)y<    hostmaster/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)9    hotline/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)14    hp/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)5    hrr/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)f8    htdocs/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)7    httpd/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)i6    hung/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)6    iain/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)5    ian/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)o6    ianh/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)6    ibis/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)7    idiot/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)p5    ina/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)n7    inada/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)m6    info/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)6    init/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s):    interior/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s):    intraweb/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)7    ionel/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)s8    ionita/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)7    ionut/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)m8    ionutz/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)6    ircd/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)8    isabel/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)7    isamu/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)r7    issue/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)g7    itera/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)a6    iuli/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)8    iulian/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)6    iuly/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)9    ivanovo/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)r7    jaime/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s):6    jake/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)7    jakov/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)w5    jal/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)T7    james/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)T7    janek/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)f7    jared/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)a6    java/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)7    jeeto/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)h6    jeff/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)9    jeffrey/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)h7    jeffy/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)d5    jem/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)c6    jeni/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)6    jill/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)8    joanna/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)6    jobs/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)7    joerg/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)e6    joey/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)6    john/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)7    josed/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s) 6    josh/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)7    jubar/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s) 6    judy/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)9    juliana/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)o6    jura/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)7    jurca/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)-9    juridic/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)p8    justin/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)8    kamran/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)7    karyn/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)h5    kat/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)w6    kent/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)7    kerli/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)a7    kevin/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)T6    kido/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)5    kim/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)e8    kimura/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)6    king/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s):    kitamura/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)7    klaus/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)d9    konchog/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)A5    kop/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s) 8    krista/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)9    krystal/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s) 9    kuroiwa/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s),6    kurt/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)6    lady/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 9 Time(s)6    lame/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)7    larry/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 2 Time(s)m7    laura/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)o8    lauren/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)8    laurie/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)6    lead/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)6    leah/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)5    led/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)a7    lenny/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)-5    leu/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s) 8    levsha/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)7    liana/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 2 Time(s)r6    lili/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)7    linda/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 2 Time(s)w7    lions/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)b6    lisa/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)6    live/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)6    lola/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)8    looser/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)8    lorant/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s):    loredana/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)8    loveme/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)7    lover/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s) 8    loverd/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)5    lrv/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)t7    lucas/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)o7    lucia/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s) 7    lucky/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s) 7    mabad/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)t6    mada/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)8    maeder/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)7    maeno/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s).8    maggie/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)8    magnus/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)6    mama/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)7    manea/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)-5    mar/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)F6    mari/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)7    maria/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)r8    marius/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)6    mark/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)7    marko/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)n9    marline/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)a8    master/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)6    matt/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s):    matthewd/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)5    max/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)e7    mckey/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)v7    medie/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)s8    medina/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)9    melanie/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s) 6    melt/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)8    memini/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)5    mia/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)e6    miha/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)7    mihai/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)n6    mike/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 2 Time(s)6    miko/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)5    mil/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)08    milena/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)9    millard/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)h9    moderna/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)M8    moised/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)8    monika/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)9    monique/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)a<    morgengold/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)8    moscow/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)9    mustafa/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)a9    mustang/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)s7    mysql/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)e:    napoleon/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)7    nareg/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)s8    nathan/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s):    nazarova/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)6    nelu/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)9    neomail/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)a6    nick/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)6    nico/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)9    nicoara/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)n6    nicu/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)8    nikita/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)7    nishi/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s) ;    nishiyama/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)r7    norby/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s) 8    norine/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)8    norman/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s):    notorius/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s):    nucleara/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)7    numis/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)h8    office/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s);    officeinn/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)k5    oli/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)e8    online/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)7    oprea/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s) 8    oracle/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)8    orange/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)8    oshima/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s):    osilvera/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)8    ovidiu/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)8    packer/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)9    pakirus/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)p7    palex/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)o8    palmer/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)9    parinte/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)o8    pascal/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)8    passwd/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s);    patriciar/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)p9    patrick/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)D6    pauk/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)6    paul/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)8    paypal/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)7    pearl/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s) 7    pelle/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)t7    percy/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s) 9    peribal/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s) :    personal/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 2 Time(s)7    pgsql/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)t8    philip/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)8    phoebe/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)9    picasso/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)w7    piotr/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)m8    pirate/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)8    pistol/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)5    pix/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)t8    plasma/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)8    player/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)5    pop/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)a7    porno/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s).:    porteria/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)9    portmap/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)"7    power/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)t8    preist/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)9    present/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)f;    president/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)t7    press/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)g7    promo/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)a8    public/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)6    puma/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)7    quake/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)c8    racerx/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)6    radu/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 2 Time(s)8    raducu/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)8    ragnar/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)6    rain/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)5    ram/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)a7    rando/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)r7    randy/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)-5    rap/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)S6    rapi/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)8    raptor/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)6    raul/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)8    razvan/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)6    real/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s);    reception/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)o9    recruit/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)e5    red/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)h8    regula/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)9    religie/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s) 6    rene/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)8    resume/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)9    revista/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s),8    rhonda/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)8    richer/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)6    rico/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s);    rinocente/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s).7    rishi/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s) 7    risto/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)t6    ritt/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)5    rob/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)p8    robert/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s):    robinson/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s):    robomail/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)6    rock/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)8    rodica/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)8    rodney/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)7    roger/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)"5    rom/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)06    roma/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)7    roman/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)27    romeo/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)29    ronaldo/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s).7    root/password from ::ffff:218.189.179.242: 3 Time(s)26    root/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)5    root/password from ::ffff:66.197.144.69: 3 Time(s)26    rosa/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)6    roxi/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)6    royd/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)5    rpc/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s) 7    rpilz/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s) 6    ruby/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)7    rugby/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)o5    rux/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)o6    ryan/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)7    saito/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)d7    sakai/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)r6    sale/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)7    sales/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s) 7    sally/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)r7    samba/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)r7    sanda/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)m;    sanderson/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)f8    sandra/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)7    sarah/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s):9    sarolta/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)18    sasaki/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)7    sasha/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)16    sauv/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)6    save/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)6    scan/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)8    school/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)9    science/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s).7    scott/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)96    sean/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)8    search/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)9    seawolf/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)T6    seba/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s);    sebestyen/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)e:    secretar/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s);    secretary/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s) 9    semenov/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)l:    seongjin/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)4    sf/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)8    shadow/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 2 Time(s)7    shawn/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)s8    sheena/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)9    sheetal/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)s9    shelley/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)o9    shimada/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)d6    shit/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)6    shop/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)=    shopsupport/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s) 7    simba/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)o8    simina/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)7    simon/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)o5    sin/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)m8    singer/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)6    skid/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)9    slacker/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s):8    slayer/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)5    sly/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s):4    sm/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)5    sme/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s) 7    smike/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)r8    smiley/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)7    smmsp/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)m8    snuffy/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)9    soccer1/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)::    softball/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s):    software/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)7    sonny/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)f7    sorin/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)16    spam/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)8    speedo/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)6    spik/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)7    sport/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 2 Time(s)67    spott/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s).>    squirrelmail/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)7    staff/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)0<    statistica/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)8    steaua/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)8    stefan/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)9    stenkie/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)69    stephen/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)17    steve/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)18    stormy/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)6    stud/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)6    styx/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)6    suga/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)6    suge/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)5    sun/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)f9    support/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s):7    susan/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)65    sys/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)f8    sysadm/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)4    sz/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s);    takahashi/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)f8    tamara/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)6    tara/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)9    tashley/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)f5    taz/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s) 7    teach/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)r:    tehnolog/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s):    telegest/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s);    televideo/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s):6    temp/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)5    teo/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)r6    tess/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)7    test/password from ::ffff:218.189.179.242: 2 Time(s) 5    test/password from ::ffff:66.197.144.69: 2 Time(s)o9    testguy/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)r9    testing/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)f:    testuser/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s):    thapkhay/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)9    tiffany/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 2 Time(s)f8    tigger/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)6    tina/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)6    todd/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)8    tomcat/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)7    tonic/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s):6    tony/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)7    tonys/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)f6    toor/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)8    tordai/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)6    toto/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)6    town/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)7    trash/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)r6    trek/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)9    trigger/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)r9    trinity/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)f9    tristan/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)m:    tuningar/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)7    turbo/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)o8    ultras/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)5    uno/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)f8    uptime/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)7    user/password from ::ffff:218.189.179.242: 1 Time(s)m5    user/password from ::ffff:66.197.144.69: 1 Time(s) 6    usui/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)8    utopia/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s):    valhalla/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)8    valmar/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)6    vasi/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)8    velvet/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)8    ventas/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)5    vgv/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)b8    victor/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)7    video/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)b7    viera/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)b8    violet/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)8    virgil/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)6    viri/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)6    vova/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)6    walt/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)8    walter/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)9    warrior/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s) 7    water/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 2 Time(s) :    webadmin/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)<    webmasters/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)8    webrun/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)9    webster/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)r7    weisz/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)r8    whisky/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)=    whitecanyon/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)p6    wolf/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)8    wolves/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)8    wonder/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)7    woody/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)e6    work/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)3    x/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 2 Time(s) 8    xfiles/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)5    xfs/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)s6    xian/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)6    xman/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s);    yamaguchi/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)e7    yarul/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)i8    yasuda/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)6    yoko/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s):    yokoyama/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)8    yomama/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s);    yoshinari/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)m6    zako/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)7    zemba/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)1:    zeppelin/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)8    zetina/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)6    zeus/password from ::ffff:61.100.186.190: 1 Time(s)    ' If you want thousands more let me know.6   Ken8   OpenVMS.org)% _____________________________________0 Kenneth R. Farmer <>< & SpyderByte: http://www.SpyderByte.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 03:07:42 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>:( Subject: Re: Script Kiddie tarpit wanted0 Message-ID: <114pvnl61grp823@corp.supernews.com>   Paul Sture wrote:. > Alan Frisbie wrote:i > @ >> Since I like to have remote Internet access to my VMS system,0 >> I have my firewall forward SSH packets to it. >>G > Well, in the couple or so years I had ssh open (and routed to my VMS 60 > system at home) there was only one ssh attack. > F > IIRC I found the evidence in operator.log, the accounting file, and ' > maybe the audit log (not all 3 IIRC).f > D > This was a deliberate one-off attack though, as I'd clearly upset K > someone who was offering what I considered to be a scam, and he'd picked /, > up my ip address from his web server logs. >  > Be careful folks...:  & Succesful attack, or attempted attack?   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Apr 2005 03:18:32 -0800r* From: "Mark  Round" <mark.round@gmail.com>( Subject: Re: Script Kiddie tarpit wantedC Message-ID: <1112354312.020179.121250@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>d  D What's interesting is that I am also seeing these exact same attacksG (albeit on a Unix system). Same passwords, etc. I originally added each1G offending host into a firewall blacklist, but they just keep on coming, F and all from the far east. I wonder if there's a new worm or something	 brewing ?p   -Markr   ------------------------------  * Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 11:55:21 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk( Subject: Re: Script Kiddie tarpit wanted) Message-ID: <d2jcr9$sor$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>0  p In article <1112354312.020179.121250@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "Mark  Round" <mark.round@gmail.com> writes:E >What's interesting is that I am also seeing these exact same attacks H >(albeit on a Unix system). Same passwords, etc. I originally added eachH >offending host into a firewall blacklist, but they just keep on coming,G >and all from the far east. I wonder if there's a new worm or somethinge
 >brewing ? >p >-Mark >m  N There have been brute-force attacks on SSH since August 2004 using variants ofA the brutessh2 brute force cracker utility which is available from)  7 http://www.frsirt.com/exploits/08202004.brutessh2.c.php     
 David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 14:13:52 GMT:) From: "Rick Barry" <richard.barry@hp.com>p( Subject: Re: Script Kiddie tarpit wanted1 Message-ID: <AGc3e.2734$_W2.204@news.cpqcorp.net>9  B The problem with these attacks is that they are likely coming fromH somebody's computer system that's been compromised, so manipulating thatK system's communications is not a good idea. Tracking down the source of the.1 attack may require law enforcement investigation.f  J If you're really serious about "attacking" this problem, report it to yourD local FBI field office (if you're in the United States) or other lawI enforcement agency. Depending on what your system is being used for, theyrI might direct you to other federal agencies who have jurisdiction. If your8J part of an organization (government, corporation, educational institution,@ ...) use whatever security incident procedure you have in place.  
 Rick Barry OpenVMS System Software Groups Hewlett-Packard Companym
 Nashua, NH  4 "Mark Round" <mark.round@gmail.com> wrote in message= news:1112354312.020179.121250@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...6F > What's interesting is that I am also seeing these exact same attacksI > (albeit on a Unix system). Same passwords, etc. I originally added eachwI > offending host into a firewall blacklist, but they just keep on coming,fH > and all from the far east. I wonder if there's a new worm or something > brewing ?  >x > -Mark  >m   ------------------------------  * Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 15:16:40 +0000 (UTC). From: klewis@LUMINA.MITRE.ORG (Keith A. Lewis)( Subject: Re: Script Kiddie tarpit wanted. Message-ID: <d2joko$2ko$1@newslocal.mitre.org>   "Rick Barry" <richard.barry@hp.com> writes in article <R_X2e.2664$G22.1111@news.cpqcorp.net> dated Thu, 31 Mar 2005 19:14:57 GMT:fM >I was going to mention "sticky" honeypot software as an interesting tool for E >this sort of problem, but...see http://www.hackbusters.net/ for somefD >interesting legal issues that popped up in the state of Illinois as8 >discussed by the author of one such honeypot -- LaBrea. >dL >Your safest bet may be to detect, block, and log these attempts rather than" >to manipulate the communications.  J I think the legal issue around Labrea is that it impersonates IP addressesG which you may or may not own.  For example, if your cable modem is on aeH class-C subnet and your neighbor's computer is turned off for the night,I Labrea will answer the ARP request on your neighbor's behalf and set up af virtual honeypot machine.     K What the OP wants, I think, is a tarpit for only his IP address.  If you'remE running a web server you might want to scan the logs for non-existent.J cgi-bin scripts and write some.  Be sure to use "wait" commands so that it doesn't finish too fast.  0 --Keith Lewis              klewis {at} mitre.org> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 16:31:30 +0100. From: Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net>w( Subject: Re: Script Kiddie tarpit wanted4 Message-ID: <d2jpgj$aqq$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk>   Alan Frisbie wrote:m  ? > Since I like to have remote Internet access to my VMS system,./ > I have my firewall forward SSH packets to it.f > : > However, every day or so, I am alerted by the beeping of@ > OPCOM messages that someone is making repeated login attempts.: > I am not worried about them getting in, but I find their > feeble attempts annoying.o > > > I am thinking of creating captive accounts that these script; > kiddies would be likely to try (root/<null>, guest/guest,f= > god/god, etc.).   The captive procedure should appear to be.= > some variant of Unix, appear to sort-of work, while wasting6: > as much of their time as possible.   Meanwhile it should> > log everything to a file for my later amusement.   (Yes, I'm
 > that sick!)a > < > I seem to recall that someone created such a DCL procedure< > years ago, but I can't seem to find it.   Can anyone point= > me to something that would give me a start on this project?f  + Yes, I've got a vague recollection of that.d  9 Or how about a captive account which runs ELIZA (from them5 Turing Test in the AI community) with variable-lengthr8 pauses up to 2 minutes between responses ?  There surely* must have been a version of ELIZA for VMS.  ) That would drive the script kiddies nuts.e   Script Kiddy: % su7 ELIZA: Tell me more about su;  is she your girlfriend ?r   ------------------------------  * Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 16:02:32 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk( Subject: Re: Script Kiddie tarpit wanted) Message-ID: <d2jrao$403$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>1  V In article <d2jpgj$aqq$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk>, Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net> writes: >Alan Frisbie wrote: >0 > : >Or how about a captive account which runs ELIZA (from the6 >Turing Test in the AI community) with variable-length9 >pauses up to 2 minutes between responses ?  There surelym+ >must have been a version of ELIZA for VMS.. >:* >That would drive the script kiddies nuts. >1 >Script Kiddy: % su 8 >ELIZA: Tell me more about su;  is she your girlfriend ?  + POPLOG which runs/ran on VMS included ELIZA(  7 From the old version running on my Alpha VMS systems :-p   Alpha2:eliza  2 Sussex Poplog (Version 14.51 22-SEP-1997 17:45:05)     ELIZA HERE!:  7 THIS PROGRAM SIMULATES A NON-DIRECTIVE PSYCHOTHERAPIST..A IT WILL APPEAR TO ENGAGE YOU IN CONVERSATION ABOUT YOUR PROBLEMS.:G HOWEVER, IT DOESN'T REALLY UNDERSTAND, AS YOU WILL EVENTUALLY DISCOVER.   = WHENEVER THE COMPUTER PROMPTS YOU WITH A QUESTION MARK, THUS:l    ?' YOU SHOULD TYPE IN A ONE LINE RESPONSE.s) TO CORRECT MISTAKES USE THE "DEL" BUTTON..E AT THE END OF EACH OF YOUR RESPONSES, PLEASE PRESS THE RETURN BUTTON.mL WHEN YOU HAVE FINISHED (OR ARE CURED?) TYPE BYE AND PRESS THE RETURN BUTTON.     GOOD DAY WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM) ?   ' Details of POPLOG can be obtained from :   http://www.poplog.orgw  G However it doesn't look like the latest version has been ported to VMS.1    
 David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 11:29:02 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>9( Subject: Re: Script Kiddie tarpit wanted0 Message-ID: <114qt3lb55t5b3b@corp.supernews.com>   Roy Omond wrote: > Alan Frisbie wrote:i > @ >> Since I like to have remote Internet access to my VMS system,0 >> I have my firewall forward SSH packets to it. >>; >> However, every day or so, I am alerted by the beeping ofmA >> OPCOM messages that someone is making repeated login attempts.1; >> I am not worried about them getting in, but I find their0 >> feeble attempts annoying. >>? >> I am thinking of creating captive accounts that these scripto< >> kiddies would be likely to try (root/<null>, guest/guest,> >> god/god, etc.).   The captive procedure should appear to be> >> some variant of Unix, appear to sort-of work, while wasting; >> as much of their time as possible.   Meanwhile it should1? >> log everything to a file for my later amusement.   (Yes, I'me >> that sick!) >>= >> I seem to recall that someone created such a DCL procedure = >> years ago, but I can't seem to find it.   Can anyone pointf> >> me to something that would give me a start on this project? >  > - > Yes, I've got a vague recollection of that.0 > ; > Or how about a captive account which runs ELIZA (from the:7 > Turing Test in the AI community) with variable-length1: > pauses up to 2 minutes between responses ?  There surely, > must have been a version of ELIZA for VMS. > + > That would drive the script kiddies nuts.1 >  > Script Kiddy: % su9 > ELIZA: Tell me more about su;  is she your girlfriend ?j   Maybe a modified Zoop?   ------------------------------   Date: 01 Apr 2005 16:45:15 GMT/ From: Thierry Dussuet <thierry@dussuet.lugs.ch>1( Subject: Re: Script Kiddie tarpit wanted0 Message-ID: <slrnd4quks.13a.thierry@MARS.Family>  D On 2005-03-31, Alan Frisbie <Usenet02_REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com> wrote:? > Since I like to have remote Internet access to my VMS system,f/ > I have my firewall forward SSH packets to it.m >f: > However, every day or so, I am alerted by the beeping of@ > OPCOM messages that someone is making repeated login attempts.: > I am not worried about them getting in, but I find their > feeble attempts annoying.s >d> > I am thinking of creating captive accounts that these script; > kiddies would be likely to try (root/<null>, guest/guest,f= > god/god, etc.).   The captive procedure should appear to be.= > some variant of Unix, appear to sort-of work, while wasting.: > as much of their time as possible.   Meanwhile it should> > log everything to a file for my later amusement.   (Yes, I'm
 > that sick!)p >s< > I seem to recall that someone created such a DCL procedure< > years ago, but I can't seem to find it.   Can anyone point= > me to something that would give me a start on this project?m  L I started something similar some time ago, in PL/I.  The code is probably asL ugly as hell (I'm happy for feedback) but the result is funny :) (it doesn't all work yet, either)0  * http://wigwam.ethz.ch/~dussuett/prompt.pli   Thierry0   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 08:46:20 -0800s4 From: Alan Frisbie <Usenet02_REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com>( Subject: Re: Script Kiddie tarpit wanted$ Message-ID: <1112373864.31297@smirk>   Roy Omond wrote: > Alan Frisbie wrote:   ? >> I am thinking of creating captive accounts that these scriptr< >> kiddies would be likely to try (root/<null>, guest/guest,> >> god/god, etc.).   The captive procedure should appear to be> >> some variant of Unix, appear to sort-of work, while wasting; >> as much of their time as possible.   Meanwhile it should1? >> log everything to a file for my later amusement.   (Yes, I'm1 >> that sick!)  ; > Or how about a captive account which runs ELIZA (from thes7 > Turing Test in the AI community) with variable-lengths: > pauses up to 2 minutes between responses ?  There surely, > must have been a version of ELIZA for VMS.  7 I am thinking about a program that would accept typical/5 Unix/Linux commands and give responses that will lookn< like it worked, at least to a script kiddie.  An alternative< would be something completely alien to them, like VMS.   :-)  9 I'm sure that the machines doing the probing are zombies, ; infected with some WinDoze virus, so I don't want to attacko9 them.   They probably just pass their results back to thef: "mother ship".   When the kid returns home from school, he= will find my IP address in the report, along with a "working"1< login name and password.   That's when the fun starts.   :-)  8 I don't want to spend a lot of time on this, just have a? little fun watching the kid thrash around inside the "sandbox".T  : Of course, there is always the option of simply giving him9 a regular non-priv VMS user account, with a login message.: about using the HELP command and links to the online docs.9 We might wind up with another VMS convert that way.   :-)    Which would be more evil?   :-)8   Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 19:18:35 +0200p& From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@decus.ch>( Subject: Re: Script Kiddie tarpit wanted, Message-ID: <3b5e3cF6ha6s4U1@individual.net>   Dave Froble wrote:   > Paul Sture wrote:a >  >> Alan Frisbie wrote: >>A >>> Since I like to have remote Internet access to my VMS system,)1 >>> I have my firewall forward SSH packets to it.i >>>nH >> Well, in the couple or so years I had ssh open (and routed to my VMS 1 >> system at home) there was only one ssh attack.t >>G >> IIRC I found the evidence in operator.log, the accounting file, and :( >> maybe the audit log (not all 3 IIRC). >>E >> This was a deliberate one-off attack though, as I'd clearly upset :E >> someone who was offering what I considered to be a scam, and he'd 04 >> picked up my ip address from his web server logs. >> >> Be careful folks... >  > ( > Succesful attack, or attempted attack?  D Definitely only an attempt. Whoever it was went no further than the / login prompt. No username or password attempts.p  F The cheeky swine then came back to me and claimed I definitely hadn't H read his legal bit (obvious, because at that point he hadn't yet put it H up on his website). Yes, he went through his logs (why he knew I hadn't 2 read the legal bit) to try and find out who I was.  I Well, he got banned from posting on the website where I found his offer, oI but I took great satisfaction that I'd kept him up until beyond midnight 1; writing the legally required bit, and still got him banned.6  E Yes, I had a bit of private fun there, but in the end it was someone ) trying to waste my time.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 19:34:17 +02006& From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@decus.ch>( Subject: Re: Script Kiddie tarpit wanted, Message-ID: <3b5f0qF6gama3U1@individual.net>   Dave Froble wrote:   > Paul Sture wrote:1 >  >> Alan Frisbie wrote: >>A >>> Since I like to have remote Internet access to my VMS system,r1 >>> I have my firewall forward SSH packets to it.o >>>sH >> Well, in the couple or so years I had ssh open (and routed to my VMS 1 >> system at home) there was only one ssh attack.  >>G >> IIRC I found the evidence in operator.log, the accounting file, and .( >> maybe the audit log (not all 3 IIRC). >>E >> This was a deliberate one-off attack though, as I'd clearly upset 0E >> someone who was offering what I considered to be a scam, and he'd  4 >> picked up my ip address from his web server logs. >> >> Be careful folks... >  > ( > Succesful attack, or attempted attack?  I Ugh, another reply. The guy scared me enough that I backed off. Sad that 8G it sometimes comes to that, but I didn't think I could attack him back  E in a legal way. (technically yes, with a couple of Alphas, a Mac and yG maybe a PC, legally probably not, even though in a different country I  * might have been able to get away with it).  A Sorry if I have ethics, but I believe many here have those too...f   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 19:41:57 +02000& From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@decus.ch>( Subject: Re: Script Kiddie tarpit wanted, Message-ID: <3b5ff6F6gih68U1@individual.net>   david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:m  
 <big snip>  ) > Details of POPLOG can be obtained from f >  > http://www.poplog.orge > I > However it doesn't look like the latest version has been ported to VMS.r >   D Then on behalf of the nay-sayers community here, that's an absolute , outrage, VMS will be dead within 6 months...   etc. etc8 etc:  / PS - big smiley here for those who don't get it8   :-) :-) :-) ,-)    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 13:37:06 -05004 From: "Peter Weaver" <newsgroup@weaverconsulting.ca>( Subject: Re: Script Kiddie tarpit wanted, Message-ID: <3b5immF6gt63aU1@individual.net>   Alan Frisbie wrote:l >...! > Which would be more evil?   :-)  >...  @ How about creating a "root" account with no VMS privileges then;  
 $copy nl: x.xm< $set file/enter=password_for_corporate_bank_accounts.txt x.x4 $set file/enter=password_for_paypal_accounts.txt x.x	 $del x.x..	 $dir/date: Directory []  * PASSWORD_FOR_CORPORATE_BANK_ACCOUNTS.TXT;1                    no such file " PASSWORD_FOR_PAYPAL_ACCOUNTS.TXT;1                    no such file6   Total of 2 files.(" $ty password_for_ebay_accounts.txtC %TYPE-W-OPENIN, error opening []PASSWORD_FOR_EBAY_ACCOUNTS.TXT;1 as: input( -RMS-E-FNF, file not found $f  = For added fun have this root account run GNV when it logs in.0  G Once upon a time I had an IT Manager who would go through everything hesA could; desks, drawers, briefcases, directories... So we created apF "LETTER_TO_aaaa_ABOUT_yyyyy.TXT" where aaaa was his boss and yyyyy was9 his name. Then we deleted the file but left the header :)d   -- : Peter Weaver Weaver Consulting Services Inc.o Canadian VAR for CHARON-VAX: www.weaverconsulting.cas   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 00:12:47 GMTf1 From: Abe <mark-news@PLEASE.NOSPAM.gags-r-us.org>oK Subject: Send data to an interactive VMS application from a Windows system?.8 Message-ID: <054p41djd1tlh9ku7j3p6tcuga4pa0t4qj@4ax.com>  C We have an old COBOL & FMS application that we'd like to "send data B to" from a Windows system.  We don't want to alter the COBOL code.B We'd like to be able to write a Windows program (maybe in VB) thatC looks like an interactive user to the VMS system and sends data and6? the correct "keystrokes" to fool the COBOL/FMS application into1 processing the data.  E Doesn't have to be a VB based solution.  Could be something scripted.d   Any product suggestions?  5 ** Due to SPAM I no longer receive email responses to0' ** newsgroup postings, so don't bother.:   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 21:02:12 -060012 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>O Subject: Re: Send data to an interactive VMS application from a Windows system? + Message-ID: <424CB9B3.E973B0CF@comcast.net>T  
 Abe wrote: > E > We have an old COBOL & FMS application that we'd like to "send data D > to" from a Windows system.  We don't want to alter the COBOL code.D > We'd like to be able to write a Windows program (maybe in VB) thatE > looks like an interactive user to the VMS system and sends data andiA > the correct "keystrokes" to fool the COBOL/FMS application intor > processing the data.  F I take it that means sending escape sequences like function keys, etc.  E Actually, with some clever scripting, WRQ Reflection will probably dorD nicely. Create the equivalent of what Reflection would write as whenE recording a session, and invoke Reflection to play it back. Just take1 your time and test thoroughly.  > The primary drawback is, of course, having passwords appear in? scripts/files that might be compromised on the WhineBloze side..  G ...or consider hiring someone who lurks on / frequents this group to dooG some custom programming to process a flat file that gets FTP'd over, orw
 some such.   -- 1 David J Dachtera dba DJE Systemsa http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:m" http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/o  " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/1   Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 11:34:10 -0500T' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>0O Subject: Re: Send data to an interactive VMS application from a Windows system?.0 Message-ID: <114qtdae46lqq14@corp.supernews.com>  
 Abe wrote:E > We have an old COBOL & FMS application that we'd like to "send datafD > to" from a Windows system.  We don't want to alter the COBOL code.D > We'd like to be able to write a Windows program (maybe in VB) thatE > looks like an interactive user to the VMS system and sends data and A > the correct "keystrokes" to fool the COBOL/FMS application into/ > processing the data. > G > Doesn't have to be a VB based solution.  Could be something scripted.( >  > Any product suggestions? > 7 > ** Due to SPAM I no longer receive email responses to1) > ** newsgroup postings, so don't bother.r  * I'm not sure if I understand the question.  G Using FMS indicates that the program would use an interactive terminal.f  C If you want to use a PC instead of a terminal, just run a terminal 1 emulator on the PC.n  E If you're trying to run the program without an interactive user, I'd o? think it would be easier to do something from VMS.  Why the PC?f   Dave   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 13:44:07 GMT26 From: "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@NOSPAM.spyderbyte.com>5 Subject: ServerWatch: HP Shows Some OpenVMS Integrity)> Message-ID: <HYc2e.75665$_i3.4371367@twister.southeast.rr.com>  7 http://www.serverwatch.com/hreviews/article.php/3493286p       Kenm   OpenVMS.org1% _____________________________________o Kenneth R. Farmer <><:% SpyderByte: http://www.SpyderByte.comf   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 14:42:13 -0500 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>f9 Subject: Re: ServerWatch: HP Shows Some OpenVMS Integrity1, Message-ID: <07ednZY9aoAKMtTfRVn-uw@igs.net>   Brad Hamilton wrote: > Kenneth Farmer wrote:s: >> http://www.serverwatch.com/hreviews/article.php/3493286 >r> > OK, good article about OpenVMS, but I _do_ have a complaint. >:C > Why does the author open the article with the following sentence:1 > C > "The writing has been on the wall for OpenVMS on AlphaServer ever + > since Compaq gobbled up DEC in the '90s."1 > D > The busy executive, reading that first sentence, would be loath toE > read the rest of the article, thinking it yet another piece of newssF > confirming the death of VMS.  Too many people still believe that theH > death of Alpha = the death of VMS.  Why re-inforce this misconception, > even inadvertently?/ >s? > I suppose we should be happy that it's even mentioned at all.     K Sure, just like the man trapped in the middle of the desert who is gratefulTK for the morning dew he can condense in a survival still. Not enough to livepB on and barely enough to survive. HP has us just where it wants us.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 17:41:22 -08008, From: Ken Fairfield <my.full.name@intel.com> Subject: Re: shadow minicopy+ Message-ID: <d2abo2$jpe$1@news01.intel.com>0   Tom Linden wrote:/ > > > Have three shadow sets in a cluster containing nodes runningA > 7.3, 7.3-1, 7.3-2 and 8.2 on alpha and VAX.  Had to replace the A > CD drives in one 7.3 AXP and one 7.3-1.  The shadow sets are on:> > a shared scsi bus with those two and yet a third 7.3-2 node.F > The shadow sets are each 74GB.  A merge operation was thus initiatedD > One of the sets hosts hosts WASD, MX HGFTP and QUEUE Manager. ThisJ > one took 7 days to merge!  (the sets are in a BA356 so only 40MB/sec Tx)G > the others completed in two days.  So I thought I would implement the. > minicopy.m  C      Before we go any further, you need to understand that minicopye? is implemented by creating a bitmap in memory on your choice ofp7 cluster (or stand-alone) nodes.  When you do a DISMOUNTaB /POLICY=MINICOPY of a shadow member, bits in that map get set whenB a write occurs while that shadow member is dismounted.  (A certain@ efficiency is gained by having each bit map to 127 disk blocks.)  @      In order to do a subsequent MOUNT/POLICY=MINICOPY and allow> the dismounted member to be "reintegrated" into the shadow set> with a minicopy instead of a full copy, at least one node with> an active bitmap for that shadow set must still be up.  If you> shutdown (or reboot) all nodes that had a bitmap, you can't do> a mini-copy.  The bitmap is not "shared" between cluster nodes> (although it is synchronized), so you can't, say, do a rolling= reboot of all cluster nodes and expect to have a valid bitmap. to support the minicopy.  4      Therefore when you suggest something like this:   [...]r > and for dismount > - > $       If f$getdvi(this_disk,"shdw_member)f > $       then? > $               dismount/policy=minicopy=optional 'this_disk's > $       else& > $               dismount 'this_disk' > $       endifp  ; It really makes no sense (to me) in the context of a normals; shutdown.  If you have a stand-alone system, you'll have noo= bitmap to support the minicopy.  If you're in cluster, simplym> dismounting the shadow set "cleanly" in the shutdown will take? care of mounting it cleanly on reboot.  If the disk is a shadow.> member but is locally attached to the node shutting down (with; other members supplying their own locally attached disks toT: the shadow set), I also think you're out of luck because I= doubt another node can minicopy (or full copy) an MSCP-served  shadow set member.  	      -Kenf -- .6 I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me...  
 Ken Fairfieldi! D1C Automation VMS System Support " who:   kenneth dot h dot fairfield where: intel dot com   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 21:07:20 -0500.- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>: Subject: Re: shadow minicopyB Message-ID: <1112062014.c2ae78f6bbe204b79c5cbd461aa043d2@teranews>  . How difficult would it to have something like:  ; SET VOLUME DSA0/LOG_WRITES=dka200:[000000]mytransaction.log/  8 you then remove one of more members from DSA0, and then:  v MOUNT DSA0/SHADOW=(gooddisk, olddisk1, olddisk2) - /REBUILD_FROM_LOG=dka200:[000000]mytransactyion.log/RESET_WHEN_DONE  F So, when you are ready to do stuff on drives, you set a mode that logs1 all writes to a log file on some temporary drive.1  B When you bring the drives back, it uses that temporary log file to@ re-apply all the writes that have occured since the log file was< created, and when it is done, it automatically turns off the1 auto-logging and optionally deletes the log file.   E You could then rebuild your data from any disk, even if the last gooda@ drive is not available, since your transaction log would be on a seperate drive.8  ) This would also be a great auditing tool.f   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 23:34:40 -0500 2 From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com> Subject: Re: Sybaset/ Message-ID: <424C8910.23036.20C10287@localhost>m  / On 31 Mar 2005 at 18:55, rat@bigpond.com wrote:9F > A random question about Sybase on VMS.  I've just started doing someE > work at a place where they still have Sybase embedded in some COBOLwE > code.  Now I know that this creature is no longer supported on VMS,fE > and I'd really like to move them on; the thing is that this code is2E > used to drag data from a Sybase database on an NT machine (where of   > course it Is still supported).  B Well, I have migrated some Sybase users to CHARON-VAX. [Shameless - Plug Alert (tm) -- I'm a CHARON-VAX reseller]6  B If you want to move them to Itanium (why go halfway to Alpha?), I D believe that SQL clients exist that can query Sybase over a network B connection.  Of course, the best solution would be to re-host the & database on VMS (RDB? Oracle? MySQL?).  
 --Stan Quayled Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------- Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-136303 8572 North Spring Ct., Pickerington, OH  43147  USA10 stan-at-stanq-dot-com       http://www.stanq.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 12:22:47 -060006 From: "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@mac.com.spamfooler> Subject: Re: SybaseaD Message-ID: <craigberry-2BA5DF.12224701042005@news.isp.giganews.com>  C In article <1112324135.364425.200720@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,.  rat@bigpond.com wrote:a  F > A random question about Sybase on VMS.  I've just started doing someE > work at a place where they still have Sybase embedded in some COBOL0I > code.  Now I know that this creature is no longer supported on VMS, andeI > I'd really like to move them on; the thing is that this code is used toaG > drag data from a Sybase database on an NT machine (where of course it: > Is still supported). > F > Has anyone ever been in a similar situation?  Any wisdom/experience?  G It really depends on what you want to "move them on" to and away from, fA and what changes are in the realm of possibility.  So you've got:1  
 VMS client	 NT servere Sybase COBOL  embedded SQL  > Which, if any of these things, can change?  If you can change E databases, then you might well be able to find a supported option to vF run Oracle, Mimer, Ingres, or whatever clients on VMS and talk to the H corresponding database on NT (or better yet, as someone else suggested,  rehost the database on VMS).  D But if Sybase on NT is a given and you have to be able to access it H from VMS, your choices are more limited.  If the COBOL code is embedded F SQL in the sense that term is generally used, then your most critical F dependency is on the precompiler; you can't replace it without fairly H significant changes to the way the code makes database calls.  It might E be easier to change databases and get one that still has a supported . precompiler on VMS.  v  G If, on the other hand, the code accesses Sybase using either the dblib :: or ctlib client APIs, there is a pretty solid open source  implementation called FreeTDS:   http://www.freetds.org  G I've been using this with success on Alpha (though not from COBOL) and  F I don't know any reason it wouldn't work fine on Itanium as well.  It 3 can talk to MS SQL and Sybase servers equally well.(  H FreeTDS also includes an ODBC driver, and of course there are plenty of G commercial ODBC solutions as well from people like EasySoft, Attunity, :F etc.  I believe Attunity even comes with some glue to make ODBC calls : from COBOL a bit less awkward than they would normally be.  H If you are thinking about moving away from COBOL, then you have lots of ; possibilities; there are various JDBC drivers, for example.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 16:17:17 +0200d, From: Albrecht Schlosser <ajs856@tiscali.de> Subject: Re: Tape Init, Message-ID: <kdce2d.bs8.ln@news.hus-soft.de>   Michael D. Ober wrote:I > The drive formats, writes, and reads new tapes just fine.  The tape had/L > previously been formatted on VMS (same drive), but we had forgotten to useL > /media=compaction.  We always init tapes with all three /override options.  9 late reply, but anyhow: which "three /override options" ?  >  > Here's a test run: > = > SYSTEM>init /media=compaction/over=(ACC,EXP) mkb500: DR0BCK1# > %INIT-F-DRVERR, fatal drive errors  0 did you mean (and try) /override=(own,acc,exp) ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 21:21:07 -0600:2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> Subject: Re: Tape Init+ Message-ID: <424B6CA3.5F2EA1F5@comcast.net>f   Albrecht Schlosser wrote:  >  > Michael D. Ober wrote:K > > The drive formats, writes, and reads new tapes just fine.  The tape hadeN > > previously been formatted on VMS (same drive), but we had forgotten to useN > > /media=compaction.  We always init tapes with all three /override options. > ; > late reply, but anyhow: which "three /override options" ?  > >8 > > Here's a test run_ > >_? > > SYSTEM>init /media=compaction/over=(ACC,EXP) mkb500: DR0BCKt% > > %INIT-F-DRVERR, fatal drive error- > 2 > did you mean (and try) /override=(own,acc,exp) ?   Something else you might try:o   $ s80 = f$fao( "!80* " ) $ mount/foreign/noassi mkb500s $ open tape mkb500:/writer $ write mkb500 280 $ close mkb500   ..., then try the INIT again.>   Just a thought...    -- I David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems> http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:u" http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/I  " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/a   Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 21:42:57 +0000 (UTC)gP From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)1 Subject: TCPIP 5.4 patch kits: cumulative or not?s$ Message-ID: <d2hqt0$kuk$1@online.de>  G I plan to upgrade from TCPIP 5.3 to 5.4 soon.  Do I need to apply just rE the latest patch (ECO 4), or do I need to apply the previous ones as t well?   F The notes don't mention any superseded kits; does this mean I need to  apply all previous ECOS?   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 08:58:24 +0200oA From: Karl Rohwedder <extern.karl.rohwedder.nospam@volkswagen.de>b5 Subject: Re: TCPIP 5.4 patch kits: cumulative or not?t) Message-ID: <d2irdv$30d4@doiweb4.b2x.vwg>   / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:-I > I plan to upgrade from TCPIP 5.3 to 5.4 soon.  Do I need to apply just 2G > the latest patch (ECO 4), or do I need to apply the previous ones as   > well?  > H > The notes don't mention any superseded kits; does this mean I need to  > apply all previous ECOS? >   C You should install TCPIP V5.4 and the apply the lastest patch Eco4.g  	 mfg Kalles   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Mar 2005 05:07:02 -0800% From: Bart.Zorn@xs4all.nl (Bart Zorn)aY Subject: Re: TCPIP 5.4: obsolete information in HELP, what are new defaults (clusteralias = Message-ID: <a98cd882.0503290507.553a9541@posting.google.com>   | helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) wrote in message news:<d1r7dm$o4h$1@online.de>...      [ S n i p . . . ]  H > This seems to me to be a low quality of implementation.  In the past, I > the few times things have really changed, such as SET ACL etc, the old -G > syntax was supported for a while.  When moving to TCPIP 5.4, the old aB > syntax is gone before I've even had a chance to try out the new!  C Unfortunately, the quality criteria which are applied to OpenVMS dos not apply to TCP/IP.  H > Also, it seems that some stuff can be done only with ifconfig and not D > with TCPIP> .  Surely it can't be that much work to integrate new K > functionality into the TCPIP commands?  Or do we have to bite the bullet f" > and pretend we are running unix?  E It is even worse. ifconfig suggests that you can do the equivalent ofnF "tcpip set interface" to create an interface. ifconfig cannot do this,8 however. It only works with at least the "alias" option.  = Unix is known to be consistently inconsistent. The managementn: interface of TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS is inconsistently
 inconsistent.w  	 Bart Zorni   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 08:30:56 -0800w# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>  Subject: Re: TCPIP SHOW ROUTEk( Message-ID: <opsoif5utdzgicya@hyrrokkin>  H The /24 CIDR block correpsonds to the mask you have.  The old mask would have been a /29l  K On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 16:08:40 +0000 (UTC), Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES  ,1 to reply <helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de> wrote:t   > TCPIP>  SHOW ROUTE > ; > AN    0.0.0.0                               192.168.1.206n7 > AH    127.0.0.1                             127.0.0.1 ; > AH    192.168.1.0/24                        192.168.1.2031; > AH    192.168.1.203                         192.168.1.203  >iJ > All of these are clear except the third one.  I understand where the /24I > comes from; I USED TO have a network mask of 255.255.255.248.  However, B > I changed it to 255.255.255.0 in both the volatile and permanentG > configuration (SET INTERFACE and SET CONFIGURATION INTERFACE).  AfternF > that, there was an unplanned reboot due to a power failure.  The newJ > configuration came up properly (network mask 255.255.255.0 and broadcast= > mask 192.168.1.255 for all the individual addresses and the H > cluster-alias address.  So where does the /24 come from?  Is it storedJ > permanently somewhere?  (SHOW ROUTE/PERMANENT only has the equivalent of > the first line above.) >tB > I have now changed it from 192.168.1.0/24 to 192.168.1.0 and, asH > expected, everything works fine.  Will it stay this way after a rebootG > and/or restart of TCPIP?  Where was it stored during the last reboot?o >n   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 17:44:14 +0000 (UTC),P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: TCPIP SHOW ROUTEf$ Message-ID: <d2hcte$1f4$1@online.de>  F In article <opsoif5utdzgicya@hyrrokkin>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:   J > The /24 CIDR block correpsonds to the mask you have.  The old mask would > have been a /29o   Right.  :-(   , In that case, is there any reason to prefer   <    AH    192.168.1.0/24                        192.168.1.203   to R  <    AH    192.168.1.0                           192.168.1.203   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 14:37:01 -0500t- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>m Subject: Re: TCPIP SHOW ROUTEtB Message-ID: <1112297820.b0a57f935d1d2e39259926a50d317b67@teranews>  / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:d >  > TCPIP>  SHOW ROUTE > ; > AN    0.0.0.0                               192.168.1.206m7 > AH    127.0.0.1                             127.0.0.1c; > AH    192.168.1.0/24                        192.168.1.203o; > AH    192.168.1.203                         192.168.1.203c  H The /24 is normal. It means "route everything mathcing the first 24 bitsH of 102.168.1.0 to node 192.168.1.203. It is built automatically from theF network mask. It also means that you use /NETWORK when you created theG route (which causes the stack to check the mask to see how many bits ofe  the IP address are significant).   ------------------------------  * Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 06:42:57 +0000 (UTC)P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: TCPIP SHOW ROUTEf$ Message-ID: <d2iqhh$kmk$1@online.de>  E In article <1112297820.b0a57f935d1d2e39259926a50d317b67@teranews>, JFh- Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: o  1 > Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:  > >  > > TCPIP>  SHOW ROUTE > > = > > AN    0.0.0.0                               192.168.1.206-9 > > AH    127.0.0.1                             127.0.0.1 = > > AH    192.168.1.0/24                        192.168.1.203i= > > AH    192.168.1.203                         192.168.1.203c > J > The /24 is normal. It means "route everything mathcing the first 24 bitsJ > of 102.168.1.0 to node 192.168.1.203. It is built automatically from theH > network mask. It also means that you use /NETWORK when you created theI > route (which causes the stack to check the mask to see how many bits ofe" > the IP address are significant).  G Right.  In this case, however, wouldn't it be more logical to have the l first line read   <    AN    0.0.0.0/0                             192.168.1.206  ! since it is also a network route?n   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 16:19:56 +02001, From: Albrecht Schlosser <ajs856@tiscali.de> Subject: Re: TCPIP SHOW ROUTED, Message-ID: <kalj2d.mhn.ln@news.hus-soft.de>  / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:O  H > In article <opsoif5utdzgicya@hyrrokkin>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>
 > writes:  >  > J >>The /24 CIDR block correpsonds to the mask you have.  The old mask would >>have been a /29R >  > 
 > Right.  :-(D > . > In that case, is there any reason to prefer  > > >    AH    192.168.1.0/24                        192.168.1.203 >  > to Y > > >    AH    192.168.1.0                           192.168.1.203 >   P AFAIK "AH" means a host route, whereas "AN" means a network route. Did you type " the lines or did you cut'n'paste ?  ( Your IP address is 192.168.1.203, right?  P There need not be an explicit (permanent route) for your own network interface, P so you could safely remove that strange _host_ route with a _network_ mask from 9 your permanent database. Which TCPIP version do you use ?t  
 Look at this:u   $ tcpip sho vers  C    HP TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Industry Standard 64 Version V5.5e8    on an HP rx1620  (1.30GHz/3.0MB) running OpenVMS V8.2   $ tcpip sho routeo  %                               DYNAMICa  < Type           Destination                           Gateway  5 AH    127.0.0.1                             127.0.0.1u9 AN    192.168.51.0/24                       192.168.51.11n9 AH    192.168.51.11                         192.168.51.11h   $ tcpip sho route/permB %TCPIP-E-ROUTEERROR, error accessing routes database (TCPIP$ROUTE)( -TCPIP-W-NORECORD, information not found  @ There is not even a routes database (and no default route ;-) ).   Albrecht   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 07:13:33 GMTo0 From: "Guy Peleg" <guy.peleg@remove_this_hp.com> Subject: test- please ignoer1 Message-ID: <xqN2e.2606$R51.381@news.cpqcorp.net>>   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 04:16:06 -0500t- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>? Subject: Re: test- please ignoe B Message-ID: <1112260568.d7388e7dba71f984772b79f4d50e4eba@teranews>   Humm...f  7 How can we ignore a test from Guy Peleg on newsgroups ?l  G Lets start the speculation about what new DCL feature he will add whichhF may bring some sort of interface to comp.os.vms ???? :-) ;-:-) :-) :-)   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Mar 2005 04:32:33 -0800* From: "Alan Greig" <greigaln@netscape.net> Subject: Re: test- please ignoe-C Message-ID: <1112272353.857292.152380@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>    JF Mezei wrote:g	 > Humm...j >:9 > How can we ignore a test from Guy Peleg on newsgroups ?3 >hC > Lets start the speculation about what new DCL feature he will addy whichkD > may bring some sort of interface to comp.os.vms ???? :-) ;-:-) :-) :-)m  A VMS 9.1 will interface directly with Usenet and promote itself byeA taking part in discussions across a wide range of newsgroups. Nota available on VAX.    -- d
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 08:24:39 -0500a# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>n Subject: Re: test- please ignoea, Message-ID: <W9GdnY_CUJ-GZ9bfRVn-pQ@igs.net>   Guy Peleg wrote:7 > "Alan Greig" <greigaln@netscape.net> wrote in messageu? > news:1112272353.857292.152380@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...  >> >> JF Mezei wrote: >>> Humm...m >>>p; >>> How can we ignore a test from Guy Peleg on newsgroups ?r >>>aE >>> Lets start the speculation about what new DCL feature he will add  >> whichF >>> may bring some sort of interface to comp.os.vms ???? :-) ;-:-) :-) >> :-) >>D >> VMS 9.1 will interface directly with Usenet and promote itself byD >> taking part in discussions across a wide range of newsgroups. Not >> available on VAX. >> >> -- 
 >> Alan Greigu >> >eF > The DCL interface to comp.os.vms will be backported to VAX V5.5-2 asC > well...it will also include the DWIM feature (do what I mean)....- > > > Since you were wondering...the latest addition I made to DCL > (yesterday) was adding the: > /TIME_OUT qualifier to $SYNCHRONIZE. You may now specify, > the number of seconds to wait for a job... >F7 >                                 BLUSKY> submit loopercG >                                 Job LOOPER (queue SYS$BATCH, entry 4)  > started on SYS$BATCH> >                                 BLUSKY> synch/entry=4/time=5B >                                 %QUEMAN-W-TMOEXP, timeout period	 > expireda >oC > I'll keep revealing my secrets and no one will attend my bootcampt > session...;-)Y     I was hoping for a new command  4 SET ADVERTISE /distribution=WSJ,Financial Times, The Economist,Computerworld......)     --F OpenVMS - The never advertised operating system with the dwindling ISV base.u   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 12:23:17 -0500h* From: "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca> Subject: Re: test- please ignoeo2 Message-ID: <0mW2e.871$g4.16585@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>  E "Guy Peleg" <guy.peleg@remove_this_hp.com> a crit dans le message de), news:YrS2e.2613$bD1.1081@news.cpqcorp.net...  J > Since you were wondering...the latest addition I made to DCL (yesterday) wasm > adding the: > /TIME_OUT qualifier to $SYNCHRONIZE. You may now specify, > the number of seconds to wait for a job... >n  L That's a nice one. I have one specific procedure where I would cut amny line of code with that !n  $ Thanks again for all the good work !  % That was one test post worth reading!e   -- t Syltrem   H http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS related web site, en franais)      7 >                                 BLUSKY> submit looper,G >                                 Job LOOPER (queue SYS$BATCH, entry 4)i > started on SYS$BATCH> >                                 BLUSKY> synch/entry=4/time=5J >                                 %QUEMAN-W-TMOEXP, timeout period expired > C > I'll keep revealing my secrets and no one will attend my bootcamp: > session...;-)e >r > Guyt >  >s   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 16:28:55 -0500u' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>> Subject: Re: test- please ignoe 0 Message-ID: <114oq9uef22n8b4@corp.supernews.com>   Guy Peleg wrote:  C > I'll keep revealing my secrets and no one will attend my bootcampe > session...;-)m >  > Guys >  >   H Not so.  Participants are not coming to hear what you've done.  They're F coming to demand what you haven't done.  Bring paper and pencil, take ! notes, there will be a quiz.  :-)e  * Dave, who's joking might be close to truth   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 20:45:55 -060002 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> Subject: Re: test- please ignoe + Message-ID: <424CB5E2.BD741B0F@comcast.net>?   Guy Peleg wrote: > 7 > "Alan Greig" <greigaln@netscape.net> wrote in messager? > news:1112272353.857292.152380@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...  > >b > > JF Mezei wrote: 
 > > > Humm...d > > >e= > > > How can we ignore a test from Guy Peleg on newsgroups ?p > > > G > > > Lets start the speculation about what new DCL feature he will add 	 > > whichgH > > > may bring some sort of interface to comp.os.vms ???? :-) ;-:-) :-) > > :-)e > > E > > VMS 9.1 will interface directly with Usenet and promote itself by E > > taking part in discussions across a wide range of newsgroups. Nott > > available on VAX.  > >I > > -- > > Alan Greig > >r > F > The DCL interface to comp.os.vms will be backported to VAX V5.5-2 asC > well...it will also include the DWIM feature (do what I mean)....a > N > Since you were wondering...the latest addition I made to DCL (yesterday) was > adding the: > /TIME_OUT qualifier to $SYNCHRONIZE. You may now specify, > the number of seconds to wait for a job... > 7 >                                 BLUSKY> submit looper G >                                 Job LOOPER (queue SYS$BATCH, entry 4)  > started on SYS$BATCH> >                                 BLUSKY> synch/entry=4/time=5J >                                 %QUEMAN-W-TMOEXP, timeout period expired  1 Well, that's cool, but here's what I really need:l   $ SYNC/ENTRY=(45,62,83,99)  F ...and have it wait for all of the specified jobs to complete. (As youG might guess, this is to allow such things as after-backup processing topD wait until all of the backup jobs have finished, but could be useful> elsewhere, as well.) As it stands, I have to do SYNC/ENTRYs asG SPAWN/NOWAITs, and wait for my PRCCNT to go back to its original value.m  / That said, how 'bout SYNC/SUBPROCESS_COUNT[=0]?a  ( Of course, /TIME_OUT is excellent, also.  C > I'll keep revealing my secrets and no one will attend my bootcampn > session...;-)e  G Yeah, right. Like we ever get tried of hearing creative ideas and otherh
 cool stuff...    :-)v   -- h David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems- http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/a  " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/f   Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 18:40:25 GMTe% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>  Subject: Re: test- please ignoe > Message-ID: <tAg3e.20088$ze3.10200@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com>  @ "David J Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote in message % news:424CB5E2.BD741B0F@comcast.net...- > Guy Peleg wrote: >>8 >> "Alan Greig" <greigaln@netscape.net> wrote in message@ >> news:1112272353.857292.152380@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com... >> > >> > JF Mezei wrote: >> > > Humm... >> > >> >> > > How can we ignore a test from Guy Peleg on newsgroups ? >> > >H >> > > Lets start the speculation about what new DCL feature he will add
 >> > whichI >> > > may bring some sort of interface to comp.os.vms ???? :-) ;-:-) :-)a >> > :-) >> >F >> > VMS 9.1 will interface directly with Usenet and promote itself byF >> > taking part in discussions across a wide range of newsgroups. Not >> > available on VAX. >> > >> > --  >> > Alan Greigf >> > >>G >> The DCL interface to comp.os.vms will be backported to VAX V5.5-2 asoD >> well...it will also include the DWIM feature (do what I mean).... >>L >> Since you were wondering...the latest addition I made to DCL (yesterday)  >> was
 >> adding theI; >> /TIME_OUT qualifier to $SYNCHRONIZE. You may now specify;- >> the number of seconds to wait for a job...w >>8 >>                                 BLUSKY> submit looperH >>                                 Job LOOPER (queue SYS$BATCH, entry 4) >> started on SYS$BATCHe? >>                                 BLUSKY> synch/entry=4/time=5AK >>                                 %QUEMAN-W-TMOEXP, timeout period expired0 >p3 > Well, that's cool, but here's what I really need:P >g > $ SYNC/ENTRY=(45,62,83,99) >a  G Add /RETAIN=UNTIL=delta-time to the SUBMITS and then just do the SYNCs 4
 sequentially.3J If you don't care about the final status of the jobs you're syncing with,   you don't even need the /RETAIN.  H > ...and have it wait for all of the specified jobs to complete. (As youI > might guess, this is to allow such things as after-backup processing tosF > wait until all of the backup jobs have finished, but could be useful@ > elsewhere, as well.) As it stands, I have to do SYNC/ENTRYs asI > SPAWN/NOWAITs, and wait for my PRCCNT to go back to its original value.d > 1 > That said, how 'bout SYNC/SUBPROCESS_COUNT[=0]?e >l* > Of course, /TIME_OUT is excellent, also. > D >> I'll keep revealing my secrets and no one will attend my bootcamp >> session...;-) > I > Yeah, right. Like we ever get tried of hearing creative ideas and otheri > cool stuff...p >a > :-)o >  > --   > David J Dachtera > dba DJE SystemsF > http://www.djesys.com/ > + > Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:t$ > http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ >a* > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e > $ > Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/s >t > Coming soon:) > Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page o   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 14:12:03 -0500a From: norm.raphael@metso.com0 Subject: There is certainly opportunity in chaosQ Message-ID: <OF9AE94A99.0E03E1CD-ON85256FD4.0069832A-85256FD4.0069E278@metso.com>u  9 Not that I begrudge anyone anything, and I certainly wishe9 Mr. Hurd all possible success, but it's still deja-vu allo over again.e    : "Hurd, however, will have significant incentive to turn HP< around. In addition to a base annual salary of $1.4 million,< he will be eligible for annual bonuses ranging from twice to8 six times his salary and will also be granted options to; purchase 700,000 shares of HP stock, according to documents.; filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission Tuesday."y   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 16:07:19 -0500/# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> 4 Subject: Re: There is certainly opportunity in chaos, Message-ID: <rImdnUD46sqWiNbfRVn-qw@igs.net>   norm.raphael@metso.com wrote:g; > Not that I begrudge anyone anything, and I certainly wish-; > Mr. Hurd all possible success, but it's still deja-vu all 
 > over again.l >d >f< > "Hurd, however, will have significant incentive to turn HP> > around. In addition to a base annual salary of $1.4 million,> > he will be eligible for annual bonuses ranging from twice to: > six times his salary and will also be granted options to= > purchase 700,000 shares of HP stock, according to documentsl= > filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission Tuesday."     F Did you read about his guaranteed 'golden parachute' - it's a thing of beauty.k   --F OpenVMS - The never advertised operating system with the dwindling ISV base.s   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 16:39:36 -0500n( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net>4 Subject: Re: There is certainly opportunity in chaos= Message-ID: <dsWdnatka6kHgdbfRVn-tg@metrocastcablevision.com>d   John Smith wrote:n > norm.raphael@metso.com wrote:w > ; >>Not that I begrudge anyone anything, and I certainly wisht; >>Mr. Hurd all possible success, but it's still deja-vu alln
 >>over again.r >> >>< >>"Hurd, however, will have significant incentive to turn HP> >>around. In addition to a base annual salary of $1.4 million,> >>he will be eligible for annual bonuses ranging from twice to: >>six times his salary and will also be granted options to= >>purchase 700,000 shares of HP stock, according to documentse= >>filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission Tuesday."  >  >  > H > Did you read about his guaranteed 'golden parachute' - it's a thing of	 > beauty._  G Indeed.  I guess I'm just not BoD material, because I've never managed SG to figure out why something more like a leaden parachute wouldn't be a 5! far better performance motivator."   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 17:45:24 -0500g# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>>4 Subject: Re: There is certainly opportunity in chaos, Message-ID: <sb6dnVCrT-cs4NHfRVn-gA@igs.net>   John Vottero wrote:o7 > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message:9 > news:dsWdnatka6kHgdbfRVn-tg@metrocastcablevision.com...  >> John Smith wrote:! >>> norm.raphael@metso.com wrote:p >>> > >>>> Not that I begrudge anyone anything, and I certainly wish> >>>> Mr. Hurd all possible success, but it's still deja-vu all >>>> over again. >>>> >>>>? >>>> "Hurd, however, will have significant incentive to turn HPiA >>>> around. In addition to a base annual salary of $1.4 million,tA >>>> he will be eligible for annual bonuses ranging from twice to = >>>> six times his salary and will also be granted options to @ >>>> purchase 700,000 shares of HP stock, according to documents@ >>>> filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission Tuesday." >>>n >>>e >>>nG >>> Did you read about his guaranteed 'golden parachute' - it's a thingH >>> of beauty. >>A >> Indeed.  I guess I'm just not BoD material, because I've never C >> managed to figure out why something more like a leaden parachuteu2 >> wouldn't be a far better performance motivator. >eF > Why would a great CEO leave a great company for low pay and a leadenC > parachute?  If Mr. Hurd is the person that can right the HP ship,pA > then his compensation will be money well spent.   Sure, lots ofeF > people would take the job at minimum wage with a payoff only if they7 > perform but, that's not what the BOD was looking for..    K In the brokerage business we often have compensation models that are calledFF 'Eat what you kill', which, by the way is exactly the same model small business owners have.s  L Why CEO's of major corporations need fat cash compensation is something I'veL never understood - compensation should be tied to results, not stock prices.D Read "Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds" forD numerous examples of the irrationality of stock & commodity markets.  H I was having drinks with a buddy of mine who is a hedge fund manager theG other night and he was complaining about the bitching he gets from somedK clients over his costs and fees, (something along the lines of the first x%eI of the returns go 100% to the fund participants and the fund manager thene gets y% on any excess over x%).n  L The people were complaining that certain costs associated with the fund wereI too high, yet most of his clients are saying to him "I hope you earn $100aA million next year because if you do that I'll make $400 million."b  $ Seems like the right attitude to me.     --F OpenVMS - The never advertised operating system with the dwindling ISV base.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 21:30:53 -0500u( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net>4 Subject: Re: There is certainly opportunity in chaos= Message-ID: <w_idnVYP2tnDL9HfRVn-rw@metrocastcablevision.com>=   John Vottero wrote:_8 > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message 9 > news:dsWdnatka6kHgdbfRVn-tg@metrocastcablevision.com...i >  >>John Smith wrote:s >>  >>>norm.raphael@metso.com wrote: >>>e >>>u= >>>>Not that I begrudge anyone anything, and I certainly wishs= >>>>Mr. Hurd all possible success, but it's still deja-vu allo >>>>over again.e >>>> >>>>> >>>>"Hurd, however, will have significant incentive to turn HP@ >>>>around. In addition to a base annual salary of $1.4 million,@ >>>>he will be eligible for annual bonuses ranging from twice to< >>>>six times his salary and will also be granted options to? >>>>purchase 700,000 shares of HP stock, according to documents ? >>>>filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission Tuesday."m >>>  >>>  >>>iI >>>Did you read about his guaranteed 'golden parachute' - it's a thing ofd
 >>>beauty. >>L >>Indeed.  I guess I'm just not BoD material, because I've never managed to J >>figure out why something more like a leaden parachute wouldn't be a far  >>better performance motivator.2 >  > G > Why would a great CEO leave a great company for low pay and a leaden i > parachute?  G Why would you want to bother to entice such a CEO, who might then turn vD around and leave you for an even higher bidder or cushier position? I Better to get a CEO who actually *wants* the job and the challenges that l go with it._  A    If Mr. Hurd is the person that can right the HP ship, then hist( > compensation will be money well spent.  I That's a rather simplistic view to take.  The real issue is that if he's lI *not* the right person for the job (as Carly so manifestly was not) then sH not only will the money have been very poorly spent but he'll also have E relatively little motivation to rise to the occasion and learn to do   what needs to be done.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 23:01:57 -0500 ( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net>4 Subject: Re: There is certainly opportunity in chaos= Message-ID: <4I-dncIoP5MrWtHfRVn-qA@metrocastcablevision.com>u   JF Mezei wrote:gF > The problem with compensation policies is that the individual has an; > incentive to be fired as opposed to leaving on their own.9  I That's just *one* problem with them.  Another comparable one is the lack oG of incentive to perform.  There is no earthly reason to pay even a CEO eD of the largest company any more than a mid-range-6-figure salary or F sign-on bonus:  everything beyond that (and for the largest companies I it's entirely reasonable for there to be quite a lot beyond that) should eA be *very* closely tied to performance, with well-defined metrics.    - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 23:47:14 -0500w( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net>4 Subject: Re: There is certainly opportunity in chaos= Message-ID: <o72dnW7RQprPT9HfRVn-1A@metrocastcablevision.com>e   JF Mezei wrote:e > Bill Todd wrote: > J >>That's just *one* problem with them.  Another comparable one is the lackH >>of incentive to perform.  There is no earthly reason to pay even a CEOE >>of the largest company any more than a mid-range-6-figure salary ortG >>sign-on bonus:  everything beyond that (and for the largest companies J >>it's entirely reasonable for there to be quite a lot beyond that) shouldC >>be *very* closely tied to performance, with well-defined metrics.@ >  > & > The problem is defining performance.   No:  that's the *solution*.l  I Once performance is well-defined, not only can the CEO be judged on that oG basis, but the BoD can be judged on its definition by the stockholders.h   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 18:11:21 GMTn% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>y4 Subject: Re: There is certainly opportunity in chaos= Message-ID: <d9g3e.20080$sb3.4196@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com>w  ; "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message e& news:424CBE04.CE046D78@teksavvy.com...F > The problem with compensation policies is that the individual has anH > incentive to be fired as opposed to leaving on their own. And that is  > wrong. >   M I don't see why that's wrong.  Look at it from Mr. Hurds point of view, he's tL in a great situation, he's making lots of money and he knows all the people K that he's working with.  HP calls and wants him to leave NCR and come save nK HP.  Mr. Hurd doesn't know if the problem was Carly or the BOD, he doesn't oL know what the real problems are at HP.    He needs some guarantees to leave  NCR.  J > If the individual is penalised for leaving on his own he'll stick around > and continue to do damage. >eI > Consider Palmer.  He quickly realised he wasn't up to teh job, and then I > instead of quitting on his won to let someone else take the job, he rannI > Digital into the ground based on recommendatiosn from Compaq who wanteds > to buy Digital.a  L That's absurd. Bob Palmer never decided he wasn't up to the job.  He thinks 5 he did a fabulous job and the BOD thought he did too.e   >b > The same applies to Capellas.s >pE > If the board feels that the CEO is valuable, then they increase hisfK > compensation to keep him in place instead of having him seek another job.O >aG > If the guy isn't performing, then whatever compaensation he gets whenIF > leaving should be tied to how much he contributed during his tenure. >c  J But, isn't that incentive for a good CEO to leave?  NCR's stock price has K tripled since Mr. Hurd took over, I don't think NCR is going to give him a yM big bonus for leaving.  In fact, HP has to pay him for the bonuses that he's h losing by leaving NCR.   > D > If the guy isn't sure he can contribute positively, then he has no > business accepting the job.r  L They're all sure they could do the job.  Hell, most of the people that hang ' our here think they could be CEO of HP!c   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 18:27:03 GMTc% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> 4 Subject: Re: There is certainly opportunity in chaos= Message-ID: <Xng3e.20082$Cb3.5089@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com>e  6 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message 7 news:4I-dncIoP5MrWtHfRVn-qA@metrocastcablevision.com...r > JF Mezei wrote:eG >> The problem with compensation policies is that the individual has ans< >> incentive to be fired as opposed to leaving on their own. >:K > That's just *one* problem with them.  Another comparable one is the lack rL > of incentive to perform.  There is no earthly reason to pay even a CEO of K > the largest company any more than a mid-range-6-figure salary or sign-on cE > bonus:  everything beyond that (and for the largest companies it's cI > entirely reasonable for there to be quite a lot beyond that) should be w@ > *very* closely tied to performance, with well-defined metrics. >b  I The problem with that is it encourages a short term mentality.   The CEO mJ looks at everything through the prism of their well-defined metrics.  How 7 can basic research survive in an environment like that?   L In the best run companies, the CEO has the freedom to do whatever they want L and they do it because they want to, not because they're going to get a big  bonus.   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Mar 2005 19:41:04 -0800/ From: "gladiator1708" <gladiator1708@yahoo.com>0$ Subject: TURN YOUR $6 INTO $10,000++A Message-ID: <1112067664.322043.4460@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>u   Turn $6 into $10,000@ This is unreal, it actually works, try it, you won't regret it!!9 This will only take you 5 minutes to read and cost you $6.* For $6 you haven't really got much to lose' Please be sure to read all of this pagemE take your time, come back to it . . . go over it again and again, youm1 won't be sorry, I can certainly promise you that!iE "I WAS SHOCKED WHEN I SAW HOW MUCH MONEY CAME FLOODING INTO MY PAYPAL5 ACCOUNT..."0B I turned $6 into $14,706 within the first 30 days of operating the/ business plan that I am about to reveal to you.k LEGITIMATE BUSINESS OPPORTUNITY-D It does not require you to sell anything. It does not require you toF speak to your friends, family or anybody else (unless you want to). InF fact, you do not need to come into contact with any people whatsoever.E Anyone with a pulse can become successful and make their fortune with > this system. If you believe that 'every dog has its day', thenF follow the simple step-by-step plan exactly as it is set out below. IfD you do this and this alone, I guarantee that within the next 30 daysE you will receive over $10,000 in cash via your PayPal account. I know E that this must sound like an outrageous claim, particularly if you've G never had possession of this sort of money before, but believe me, thishG business works like nothing else you may have seen before in your life!dE By following the simple 3-step plan set out below, within a few shorto; weeks your life will be transformed beyond all recognition!cF This program works no matter what country you are in, or what currency@ you use. It doesn't matter how old or how young you are. And youG certainly won't need any special knowledge or talent. You won't need totD run a website, or make phone calls, or make photocopies, or send out6 letters through the mail, or pay for advertising, etc. ALL YOU WILL NEED IS:) * An email address * A PayPal account * 30 minutes of your time.G This program takes just about half an hour to set up. After that, therehF is absolutely no work whatsoever to do on your part. And yet, you willE stand to gain many thousands of pounds within the next few weeks from D those 30 minutes of easy work! Yes, I know, it sounds too good to beG true! I thought exactly the same thing myself until I actually tried itO out!< You have absolutely NOTHING to lose, but you stand to gain aG LIFE-CHANGING amount of money within the next few weeks! In fact, theretB is NO LIMIT to the amount of income you can generate from this one single business program!!oD The facts are simple: If you need to make a few thousand $$$$ REALLY? FAST, then this program is the way to do it! It's the CHEAPEST,pF FASTEST, EASIEST, and MOST LUCRATIVE program you will ever participate in! E Just about everyone has heard about "PayPal" (if you haven't you wills? soon!) and when I came across this concept I knew it would workc? because, as a member of PayPal, I had already experienced their C efficiency and excellent standing. PayPal is the simplest method of0F making and receiving payments online that anyone has ever seen! Anyone? with an email address can join for FREE! Once you have a PayPalcA account, you can send and receive credit card payments to or from2A anyone - anywhere in the world! Please read further before you gomE there... You can complete this whole process within just half an hour 9 and you will NEVER forget the day you decided to do so!!! G NEED PROOF? Here are just 3 testimonials from the countless individuals2D who decided to invest nothing more than $6 and half an hour of their$ time to participate in this program:E "What an amazing plan! I followed your instructions just 3 weeks ago, G and although I haven't made 10 grand yet, I'm already up to $6,135. I'mm. absolutely gob smacked" Alan Humphries, Canada@ "This is Lisa. Well, what can I say?... THANK YOU SO MUCH! To beC honest, I didn't really think anything would come of it. But when ItF checked my paypal account a week later, there was over =A33,000 in it!C After 30 days I now have over =A311,000 to spend! I can't thank you + enough!" Lisa McDonald, Birmingham, EnglanddE "I was shocked when I saw how much money came flooding into my paypalfF account. Within 3 weeks my account balance has ballooned to $7,449. AtC first I thought there had been some sort of error with my account!"a Richard Barrie, New YorkE Just a few months ago, each of these people were doing the same thingtG as you are at this very moment - reading this! But because they decidede; to follow the simple instructions given below, they are now-E considerably better off as a result. And there's no reason whatsoevermD why you can't share in this success. You've got nothing to lose, and EVERYTHING to gain!f% TURN $6 IN TO $10,000 IN JUST 30 DAYS    SO LET'S GET STARTED.....aF Just follow the instructions exactly as set out below and then prepare9 yourself for a HUGE influx of cash over the next 30 days!   Here's what you need to do . . . STEP 1F Ok, if you're not already a PayPal user, the very first thing you needE to do is go to the following Paypal link and SIGN UP. It takes just 2  minutes!E                     https://www.paypal.com/au/mrb/pal=3DL4B8DUWKA64BC3  E Remember to sign up for a free Premier account. You'll need to have amF Premier or Business account (and not a PERSONAL account) otherwise you@ won't be able to receive credit card payments from other people.   STEP 2B It is an undeniable law of the universe that we must first give inF order to receive. So the first thing to do when you have your BusinessC PayPal account is to immediately send a $6 payment from your PayPal.G account to the first email address in the list below, along with a noteh saying:n$ "Please add me to your mailing list"F Be certain to add this note, as this is what keeps this program LEGAL.E Instructions on how to send your $6 payment are under "SEND MONEY" atW< the PayPal site. It's very easy and will take a few seconds.E When you send your $6 payment to the first address in the list, do it E with a great big smile on your face because "as you sow, so shall you0 reap!" Here's the current list:  L ***************************************************************************= *****  1=2E forcash@libero.it 2=2E nico86@inwind.itc 3=2E rk25@iol.it 4=2E java1811@yahoo.com7 5=2E david_170879@yahoo.comm    L ***************************************************************************= ***** E (Simply copy and paste the email address at number 1 into your paypal  account)G After you have transferred a $6 payment to the email address at the top.: of the list, something very eerie happens. It gives you anE indescribable, overwhelming sense of certainty, belief and convictioncD in the system. You've just proved to yourself that, because you haveD done it, there must be thousands of other people ready to do exactlyD the same. Thus you have now seen for yourself, first hand, that this business actually works! STEP 3F Once you've sent your $6 payment to the address at the top of the listD (along with your note - this is VERY important!), the next thing youE need to do is copy the contents of this page, as you'll be sending it0G out (as an email message or by advertising your page, like I have done)rF to at least 40 people (keep in mind that 40 is a good number of peopleD to reach, but with all the different ways of advertising for free onA the internet the amount of views and signups under you could well D exceed into the hundreds or thousands if you wish....the more peopleF who join the more profitable for everyone on the list, including you).E The copy that you will send out will however, have two changes to it:kF =B7 Delete the address at Number 1 in the list, and move the others up
 a position/ Type Your email address at number 5 in the list D (make sure you type your email address that you have registered with Paypal) A The best way to do this is to copy and paste this page into a new C email. Send it to your family and friends or copy and paste it ontor+ ad's on the Internet on message boards etc.1/ The only thing you need to make sure of is thati YOUR email addressF is at Number 5 in the list. Of course, the address that was previouslyC at Number 1 should have been removed, and the other email addresses.F should have been moved up a position to accommodate yours at Number 5.@ As long as you have done this correctly, your email is ready for sending!@ A word of warning! Don't be tempted to add your email address to' position 1 in order to earn money fast! B It doesn't work like that! If you do that, you will ONLY reach theA people you directly send emails to, and then your address will beN? immediately removed from the Number 1 place and you won't reach9> thousands of people! But, if you add your name to the Number 5G position, there will be literally tens of thousands of people receiving$D and sending emails later - when your name is at the Number 1 spot!!!B Once you've got your email message ready, send out a minimum of 40! copies of the email - but only toh) People who have requested the informationl People you know, People who've sent YOU offer.-$ Opt-in mailing lists/bulk mail listsF By sending this letter and the payment via EMAIL, the response time isD EXTREMELY fast.......... ELECTRONIC TRANSFER INTERNET FAST!!! That'sD why it takes only a few days for those $6 payments to start flooding into your PayPal account!e THAT'S ALL THERE IS TO IT!> The whole process should take you about 30 minutes to complete; BE PREPARED TO GET EXCITED.... YOU WON'T BE DISAPPOINTED!!!dF Half an hour of easy work is all that's needed - no capital outlay, noC postage stamps, no printing, copying or waiting, and the concept is: 100% legal.m? Within 30 days, over $10,000 cash will pass through your PayPal F account. In fact, you can expect to receive a substantial number of $6E payments within the first few days! Keep a copy of your email safe soo6 that you can use it again whenever you need more cash! Here's how it works:F When you send out your emails, your email address will initially be atC Number 5 in the list. That's the best position it can be in at thislC stage if you want to make serious money. The response-rate for thissF program is much higher than any typical email marketing campaign for aF number of reasons, which are explained later. As long as you send yourD emails to people who are likely to be interested in this program, onC average, you can expect a response from about 25% of the people yourE send to. But let's be extremely conservative here and assume that you14 receive an average response rate of only 12.5% . . .D If you send out your email to 40 different people, you can expect atG least 5 of those people to do exactly what you did (12.5% of 40 =3D 5).iE Those 5 people each send out 40 emails with your email address at theeB Number 4 position on the list, and this list will now have reached around 200 people (5 x 40).t> Out of those 200 people, you can expect at least 25 of them toI participate (12.5% of 200 =3D 25) Those 25 people send out 40 emails each D with your email at the number 3 position and this list will now have$ been sent to 1,000 people (25 x 40).A Out of those 1,000 people, you can expect at least 125 of them toiF participate (12.5% of 1,000 =3D 125), so that's a further 5,000 emails@ (125 x 40) being sent out with you now at the Number 2 position.A Out of those 5,000 people, you can expect at least 625 of them to D respond (12.5% of 5,000 =3D 625), so that's 25,000 emails (625 x 40) being sent out withO" YOUR ADDRESS at the Number 1 spot!G Now, out of those 25,000 people, you can expect around 3,125 of them torH respond (12.5% of 25,000 =3D 3,125). And since you will now be at NUMBER5 1 in the list, you will receive: $18,750 (3,125 x $6)aF So, when your name starts to hit the Number 1 position within the nextG few days, it will be YOUR turn to collect the money! Over the course of E 30 days, this money will be sent to you by a few thousand people justoA like yourself - who are willing to invest half an hour to receive-G around $10,000 or more in cash! The first payments will arrive within asF few days, and they will continue at the rate of about 100 payments perE day for about 30 days. After that time, the volume of payments begins_A to taper off as your email address vacates the Number 1 position.nF That's all you need to do! There will be around $10,000 in $6 paymentsA waiting for you in your PayPal account within the next few weeks. G $10,000 for just 30 minutes work! This is real money that you can spend G on anything you wish! Just deposit it to your own bank account or spendwF it directly from your PayPal account!!! It's just that easy!!! I think it's WORTH IT, don't you?sC Remember, the 12.5% example above is assuming that 35 out of the 40sF people you send your email to will do absolutely nothing except deleteC your email. However, if you follow the plan correctly and send your D emails only to people who are likely to want to participate, you canF expect a typical response-rate of around 25%. Hence, the 12.5% exampleG is only given as a worst-case scenario. Additionally, the above example'C assumes that each participant will only send out 40 emails. ImagineeF what would happen if each participant sent out 1,000 emails instead of< just 40! Believe me, many people will do this and much more!E Consider this! Millions of people surf the Internet every single day,uC all over the world! Plus there are 50,000 new people who get on thelA Internet every month! The people who send you offers by email canmD provide you with an excellent source of bulk email addresses to sendG to. You can also send out emails to all of your family, friends, and togD anyone who you think would want to invest $6 and 30 minutes of their3 time to make a substantial lump sum within a month.-G Unlike many other MLM programs, this 5-LEVEL PROGRAM costs you only $6. E That's right, only $6 ONCE, which is much more realistic and provides F much, much faster results. Only the first person on the list gets yourE $6 gift, but everyone in the list will rise to that Number 1 position5G as thousands of emails are being sent out. No cheating can occur (don'teC be fooled by claims that this system can be cheated) as PayPal onlyeG allows one account per person. Because it is so easy, the response rate D is VERY HIGH and VERY FAST - Internet email FAST, and you will startD seeing dramatic results in less than one week! JUST IN TIME FOR NEXT MONTH'S BILLS!F Remember, you need only mail out 40 copies to start with. This will beF enough to generate a substantial lump sum within 30 days. For example,E send to personal contacts and reply to people who send their programsv? to you, as they are already working on the web. They know theselG programs work and they are already believers in the system! This is NOTgB considered SPAM if you are responding to other people's offers, or> sending to friends, family and contacts, or if you are using a legitimate mailing list.F So, email your letters out today, and then prepare yourself for a huge) influx of cash within the next 30 days!!! 4 4 factors that make this program so successful . . .D * EXTREMELY FAST RESPONSE * EXTREMELY HIGH RESPONSE RATE * UNLIMITED9 PROFIT POTENTIAL * QUICK, SIMPLE AND CHEAP TO GET STARTED  Because of the; VIRTUALLY ZERO INVESTMENT, SPEED, and HIGH PROFIT POTENTIALC This program has a VERY HIGH RESPONSE RATEoF And all from just a simple email and one simple $6 PayPal transaction!C In fact, this program has faster results and a higher response rate F than any other Internet program you could possibly participate in! ForD most email marketing campaigns, the average response rate is betweenE 0=2E5% and 5%. However, this particular program typically generates aSE response rate of between 20% and 30%. This is because this program is @ so easy to implement, it costs next to nothing, it takes just 30> minutes to implement, and the results can be seen within days.G I've been watching this type of MLM program for years and this is about G as easy and fast as you can get it. No stamps, no envelopes, no printedSB copies to be made - just a little effort and faith!!! This program# really keeps it "short and simple"!  UNLIMITED income potential!oF This program is structured for everyone to send only 40 emails each toE start. However, you are certainly not limited to 40. Send out as many-F emails as you want. Every 40 emails you send have a return of AT LEASTE $10,000 WITHIN 30 DAYS. So, if you can email 50, or 100, or whatever,-@ GO FOR IT! THE MORE YOU PUT INTO IT, THE MORE YOU GET OUT OF IT!C However, you MUST remember that sneaking your name higher up on theEC list will NOT produce the results you think, and it only cheats thegG other people who have put in the effort and have earned the right to belF there. So please, play by the rules and the serious money will come to you!E You are probably sceptical of this, especially with all the different>G programs out there on the Web, but if you don't try this you will neverlG know. I felt exactly the same as you probably do right now. I wanted to?E believe but I just couldn't help thinking that there was some sort ofyG catch. But then I realized that I had absolutely nothing to lose. AftersG all, I was only being asked to invest a measly $6, and yet I could earn C many thousands of pounds (dollars) within a month. And all for justbF half an hour of my time! Therefore I went ahead and did exactly as theE email requested. This took me around 30 minutes in total, and I'm so,e so, glad I did that! But please play by the rules!dC This program doesn't cost anything but $6 and about half an hour of;6 your time, and if everyone plays fair, everyone WINS!!G So there it is. You now have the knowledge that will enable you to make D over $10,000 within the next few weeks. The only thing that can holdF you back now is a lack of faith or a lack of self-belief. However, anyA doubts you may currently have will disappear within a few days ofpF putting this plan into practice. Trust me on this! You certainly won't
 regret it.9 Some notes from the PayPal site which you may find usefultC PayPal lets you pay anyone with an email address and is the world'snE Number 1 online payment service. PayPal is accepted on over 3 millionoD eBay auctions as well as a countless number of online shops. You canD also use PayPal to pay your friends - for example, it's a convenientG way to split the phone bill with your room-mate, send cash to your kidsb7 in college, or send cash to someone in another country.lC When you send money through PayPal, you can fund your payments withiF your credit card or cheque account. You won't have to worry about yourB privacy, because PayPal keeps your accounting information safe andG secure. Making a purchase with PayPal is far more secure than mailing aeG cheque or giving your credit card number to a stranger. That's why overe@ 9 MILLION people from around the world use PayPal to move money.B Signing up for a PayPal account is free, easy, and it takes only a couple of minutes., Thank you, and good luck in your ventures!!!G P=2ES. Does this sound too good? Well maybe to some sceptics it is. ButoD it actually works, and is worth the 30 minutes of your time now. So,E just make a nice cup of tea and get started on it now. After all, you:F can't lose, but you stand to gain more in the next few weeks than many people earn in a year!1 Good luck and don't spend all your money at once!c   ------------------------------  * Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 08:39:49 +0000 (UTC)P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)# Subject: Update I/O Option Firmware $ Message-ID: <d2j1cl$1qo$2@online.de>   At the bottom of    D    http://ftp.digital.com/pub/DEC/Alpha/firmware/archive/as2x00.html  
 one can read:a  G      Updating I/O option firmware from a system disk is currently only n@      supported if the system disk resides on the NCR810 SCSI busE      (on-board SCSI). To update I/O option firmware, you must do the i      following:   4      Create an options directory on the system disk:)      $ set default "system_disk":[000000]a      $ create/dir [.options]H      (insert the name of your system disk in place of "system_disk" e.g       dka100 F      Download the following files to the options directory created in       the previous step.           as2x00fw.txta      cipca315.sysa      dfeaa130.sysu      dfeab310.sysc      dfxaa320.sys       kzpsaa12.sysr  E      During booting of the update utility, enter the system disk namerE      (e.g. dka100) when asked for the device where the options files  F      reside. The update utility will search the options directory and       load the firmware images. n  $ When do I need to do such an update?   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 10:40:05 GMTx5 From: rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger)s' Subject: Re: Update I/O Option FirmwarehL Message-ID: <rdeininger-0104050540080001@user-uinj46t.dialup.mindspring.com>  D In article <d2j1cl$1qo$2@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de1 (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) wrote:t   >At the bottom of  >cE >   http://ftp.digital.com/pub/DEC/Alpha/firmware/archive/as2x00.htmlk >b >one can read: >b   ...n  % >When do I need to do such an update?a   If you& 1) have any of the listed options, and> 2) their firmware is older than the version in the update kit.   ------------------------------  * Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 11:18:20 +0000 (UTC)P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)' Subject: Re: Update I/O Option Firmwarei$ Message-ID: <d2jals$d3r$2@online.de>  
 In articleA <rdeininger-0104050540080001@user-uinj46t.dialup.mindspring.com>,08 rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger) writes: F > In article <d2j1cl$1qo$2@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de3 > (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) wrote:i >  > >At the bottom of  > >nG > >   http://ftp.digital.com/pub/DEC/Alpha/firmware/archive/as2x00.htmlo > >r > >one can read: > >e >  > .... > ' > >When do I need to do such an update?o >  > If you( > 1) have any of the listed options, and@ > 2) their firmware is older than the version in the update kit.  C OK.  These are machines I got somehow but want to pass on to a goodaI home.  I haven't yet booted them.  I plan to do a fresh install, perhaps  D after booting from another old ALPHA system disk and doing firmware  updates.  , How can I see which of these options I have?   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 10:54:39 -0700e4 From: Norman Lastovica <norman.lastovica@oracle.com>' Subject: Updated Rdb 7.2 Field Test Kit-* Message-ID: <424D8ADF.640EFA02@oracle.com>  8          Dear (Potential) Oracle Rdb Beta Test Customer,  <          The 25-Mar-2005 Rdb 7.2 field test update kits (for@ Itanium and Alpha) are now available for download on the Rdb 7.2@ Beta program web site (http://otnbeta.oracle.com/Rdb/index.htm).  @          The update kit contains multiple bug fixes, performance$ enhancements and other improvements.   Ginger Vollmar Rdb Beta Programs Administrator    ------------------------------    Date: 30 Mar 2005 17:47:53 -0800! From: "mikec" <mcoyne@ll.mit.edu>u9 Subject: VAX 4000/90A mouse and keyboard to a KVM switch?gC Message-ID: <1112233672.981723.198930@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>d  A Can a VAX 4000/90A mouse and keyboard interface into a KVM switchED we are limited on space and are trying to hook our Sun,Alpha and Sun4 workstations to one monitor and keyboard if possible4 Do they sell a conversion adapter or can I make one?   Thanks   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 21:31:58 -0600e2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>= Subject: Re: VAX 4000/90A mouse and keyboard to a KVM switch?l+ Message-ID: <424B6F2D.E7828EBE@comcast.net>h   mikec wrote: > C > Can a VAX 4000/90A mouse and keyboard interface into a KVM switchrF > we are limited on space and are trying to hook our Sun,Alpha and Sun6 > workstations to one monitor and keyboard if possible6 > Do they sell a conversion adapter or can I make one?  E That's been a great challenge for many here. I remember reading about : some who have done it, but the challenges are not trivial.  E Recommendation: Use the serial console and find a way to remote that.o   -- b David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/h  " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/e   Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 13:53:46 GMTe* From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>= Subject: Re: VAX 4000/90A mouse and keyboard to a KVM switch?s1 Message-ID: <KhT2e.2619$dw1.464@news.cpqcorp.net>-  E You need to find something that can convert a RGB signal with sync onTJ green into a VGA signal.  I know such things exist, but I don't think theyE are common or cheap.  I know of no KVM that will handle the old-style  RGB outputs.  C I'd consider buying a used Alpha workstation and moving off the olde VAXstation if you can.  , "mikec" <mcoyne@ll.mit.edu> wrote in message= news:1112233672.981723.198930@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...> > C > Can a VAX 4000/90A mouse and keyboard interface into a KVM switchaF > we are limited on space and are trying to hook our Sun,Alpha and Sun6 > workstations to one monitor and keyboard if possible6 > Do they sell a conversion adapter or can I make one? >l > Thanks >i   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Mar 2005 08:37:34 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)r= Subject: Re: VAX 4000/90A mouse and keyboard to a KVM switch?r3 Message-ID: <PWMLjBtz4umB@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ^ In article <KhT2e.2619$dw1.464@news.cpqcorp.net>, "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com> writes:G > You need to find something that can convert a RGB signal with sync onoL > green into a VGA signal.  I know such things exist, but I don't think theyG > are common or cheap.  I know of no KVM that will handle the old-stylet > RGB outputs.  L DEC made one that would handle RGB outputs, but it was only for RGB outputs.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 06:46:12 -0800u# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>n= Subject: Re: VAX 4000/90A mouse and keyboard to a KVM switch?c( Message-ID: <opsoibbak4zgicya@hyrrokkin>  H On 31 Mar 2005 08:37:34 -0600, Larry Kilgallen <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net>   wrote:  = > In article <KhT2e.2619$dw1.464@news.cpqcorp.net>, "FredK"  e& > <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com> writes:H >> You need to find something that can convert a RGB signal with sync onJ >> green into a VGA signal.  I know such things exist, but I don't think   >> they H >> are common or cheap.  I know of no KVM that will handle the old-style >> RGB outputs.e >tG > DEC made one that would handle RGB outputs, but it was only for RGB  a
 > outputs.  B Are we talking about something other than a cable with three BNC   comnnectorsl" at one end and a D15 at the other?   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 15:15:10 GMT * From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>= Subject: Re: VAX 4000/90A mouse and keyboard to a KVM switch? 2 Message-ID: <2uU2e.2627$ls1.2240@news.cpqcorp.net>  H A DS15 has a cable with either a 15-pin VGA connector at both ends, or aJ VGA connector at one end, and a *5* coax pigtail at the other.  RGB VS HS.  E Old-fashioned workstation graphics had only 3 outputs R G B. Sync wasn supplied on the G output.   F Workstations stopped using RGB (sync on green) sometime I think aroundF the end of the TurboChannel era and went to the VGA multisync outputs.  F The VS4000 *base* graphics - the LCG - which is actually in the memoryI controller, had multiple graphic frame buffer modules (where the SPX card:G goes).  The normal one was RGB.  There was also a quad head card (dunnonH if we sold it) and there was *also* a VGA module (1024x768 max I think).G But that is the *only* RGB VS HS (i.e. VGA multisync) VAX graphics evera done.f    . "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message" news:opsoibbak4zgicya@hyrrokkin...H > On 31 Mar 2005 08:37:34 -0600, Larry Kilgallen <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> > wrote: >n= > > In article <KhT2e.2619$dw1.464@news.cpqcorp.net>, "FredK"b( > > <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com> writes:J > >> You need to find something that can convert a RGB signal with sync onJ > >> green into a VGA signal.  I know such things exist, but I don't think	 > >> theynJ > >> are common or cheap.  I know of no KVM that will handle the old-style > >> RGB outputs.n > >uG > > DEC made one that would handle RGB outputs, but it was only for RGB- > > outputs. > B > Are we talking about something other than a cable with three BNC
 > comnnectorsc$ > at one end and a D15 at the other?   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 07:53:36 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>c= Subject: Re: VAX 4000/90A mouse and keyboard to a KVM switch? ( Message-ID: <opsoiefmvzzgicya@hyrrokkin>  D I haven't tried on a VAX but on a Pelican which uses the same outputF (D stype with three sma coax) I used 3 BNC couplers between to connect two cables,t) 1 3-sma to 3 BNC  (VISI  2494  150050591)n@ 2 3 BNC to VGA stype  (local computer store) Use only 3 of 5 BNC  ) OK, I just tried on a 4000/90, works finen  K On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 15:15:10 GMT, FredK <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com> wrote:b  J > A DS15 has a cable with either a 15-pin VGA connector at both ends, or aJ > VGA connector at one end, and a *5* coax pigtail at the other.  RGB VS   > HS.r >aG > Old-fashioned workstation graphics had only 3 outputs R G B. Sync waso > supplied on the G output.a >eH > Workstations stopped using RGB (sync on green) sometime I think aroundH > the end of the TurboChannel era and went to the VGA multisync outputs. >cH > The VS4000 *base* graphics - the LCG - which is actually in the memoryK > controller, had multiple graphic frame buffer modules (where the SPX cardlI > goes).  The normal one was RGB.  There was also a quad head card (dunnolJ > if we sold it) and there was *also* a VGA module (1024x768 max I think).I > But that is the *only* RGB VS HS (i.e. VGA multisync) VAX graphics everr > done.a >  >t0 > "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message$ > news:opsoibbak4zgicya@hyrrokkin...I >> On 31 Mar 2005 08:37:34 -0600, Larry Kilgallen <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net>n	 >> wrote:  >>> >> > In article <KhT2e.2619$dw1.464@news.cpqcorp.net>, "FredK") >> > <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com> writes:iK >> >> You need to find something that can convert a RGB signal with sync onsK >> >> green into a VGA signal.  I know such things exist, but I don't thinkn
 >> >> theyK >> >> are common or cheap.  I know of no KVM that will handle the old-stylee >> >> RGB outputs. >> >H >> > DEC made one that would handle RGB outputs, but it was only for RGB
 >> > outputs.- >>C >> Are we talking about something other than a cable with three BNCt >> comnnectors% >> at one end and a D15 at the other?  >o >n   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 12:49:14 -0500e# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>e= Subject: Re: VAX 4000/90A mouse and keyboard to a KVM switch?e, Message-ID: <KIidnfVhJpyDpdHfRVn-rg@igs.net>   FredK wrote:G > You need to find something that can convert a RGB signal with sync onaG > green into a VGA signal.  I know such things exist, but I don't thinktB > they are common or cheap.  I know of no KVM that will handle the > old-stylen > RGB outputs.    K Mitsubishi made an adapter called FA-1 with 5BNC inputs (RGB, V,H) and  VGAsK D-15 output. They shipped these with some of their monitors, typically usedpD in the old days in trading rooms. You might find one in a junk shop.   ------------------------------   Date: 31 Mar 05 14:27:08 EST) From: cook@wvnvms.wvnet.edu (George Cook)t= Subject: Re: VAX 4000/90A mouse and keyboard to a KVM switch? ! Message-ID: <0Z4qAlLYHPUT@wvnvms>t  c In article <PWMLjBtz4umB@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:s` > In article <KhT2e.2619$dw1.464@news.cpqcorp.net>, "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com> writes:H >> You need to find something that can convert a RGB signal with sync onM >> green into a VGA signal.  I know such things exist, but I don't think theyiH >> are common or cheap.  I know of no KVM that will handle the old-style >> RGB outputs.4 > N > DEC made one that would handle RGB outputs, but it was only for RGB outputs.  F If we are talking about the same thing, it is part number 29-32549-01.F It is a small adapter with three BNC connectors on one end (RGB input)E and a DB15 (VGA output) on the other.  DEC Field Service used to shipiE them with replacement monitors (DB15 connection only) when they couldlB not supply a monitor with BNC inputs.  I am currently using one toA connect a Turbochannel card with BNC connectors to a Compag P1220tD monitor (originally started out as something like a VR299).  We haveA used them with various other monitors including ones from IBM ande Dell.o  D They are still in the HP price database ($77) as a maintenance item.     George Cooke WVNETl   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 15:45:22 -0500e' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> = Subject: Re: VAX 4000/90A mouse and keyboard to a KVM switch? 0 Message-ID: <114onoefst0mv69@corp.supernews.com>   Tom Linden wrote:bJ > On 31 Mar 2005 08:37:34 -0600, Larry Kilgallen <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net>   > wrote: > > >> In article <KhT2e.2619$dw1.464@news.cpqcorp.net>, "FredK"  ' >> <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com> writes:t >>I >>> You need to find something that can convert a RGB signal with sync onsD >>> green into a VGA signal.  I know such things exist, but I don't  >>> think  they I >>> are common or cheap.  I know of no KVM that will handle the old-stylep >>> RGB outputs. >> >>H >> DEC made one that would handle RGB outputs, but it was only for RGB   >> outputs.r >  > D > Are we talking about something other than a cable with three BNC  
 > comnnectorso$ > at one end and a D15 at the other?   Yeah, I think so.s  E In one case, a cable from one of the RGB type monitors to say, a PC, oB allows the older monitor to be used on a PC.  I have one of these.  H But, I think what the posted wants is to have a VGA monitor with the 15 G pin connector, and connect it to the VAXstation.  I've never seen such.b   Dave   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Mar 2005 16:49:22 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) = Subject: Re: VAX 4000/90A mouse and keyboard to a KVM switch? 3 Message-ID: <Gzb$mToIEFJz@eisner.encompasserve.org>d  N In article <opsoibbak4zgicya@hyrrokkin>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:J > On 31 Mar 2005 08:37:34 -0600, Larry Kilgallen <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net>   > wrote: > > >> In article <KhT2e.2619$dw1.464@news.cpqcorp.net>, "FredK"  ' >> <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com> writes: I >>> You need to find something that can convert a RGB signal with sync onfK >>> green into a VGA signal.  I know such things exist, but I don't think  w >>> theyI >>> are common or cheap.  I know of no KVM that will handle the old-stylel >>> RGB outputs. >>H >> DEC made one that would handle RGB outputs, but it was only for RGB   >> outputs.w > D > Are we talking about something other than a cable with three BNC  
 > comnnectorsa$ > at one end and a D15 at the other?  C I am talking about a switch with a DECxxxx name (where I forget thed value of xxxx).t   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Mar 2005 16:50:43 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen),= Subject: Re: VAX 4000/90A mouse and keyboard to a KVM switch?o3 Message-ID: <$oBcgAMGQD2k@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  M In article <0Z4qAlLYHPUT@wvnvms>, cook@wvnvms.wvnet.edu (George Cook) writes: e > In article <PWMLjBtz4umB@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:oa >> In article <KhT2e.2619$dw1.464@news.cpqcorp.net>, "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com> writes: I >>> You need to find something that can convert a RGB signal with sync onrN >>> green into a VGA signal.  I know such things exist, but I don't think theyI >>> are common or cheap.  I know of no KVM that will handle the old-style  >>> RGB outputs. >> aO >> DEC made one that would handle RGB outputs, but it was only for RGB outputs.w > H > If we are talking about the same thing, it is part number 29-32549-01.H > It is a small adapter with three BNC connectors on one end (RGB input)' > and a DB15 (VGA output) on the other.d  ? No, I am talking about a box for switching between two systems.m   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Mar 2005 19:15:05 -0800* From: "Don Braffitt" <don.braffitt@hp.com>, Subject: Re: VFC Print file carriage controlC Message-ID: <1112066105.088446.322860@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>e   norm.raphael@metso.com wrote:n! > and is COBOL there yet on V8.2?-  G Yes. COBOL V2.8 is supported on both OpenVMS I64 V8.2 and OpenVMS Alpha  V8.2.e   - Don Braffitt:   project leader, HP COBOL/SORT for OpenVMS and Tru64 UNIX   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 15:22:17 +0000 (UTC)dP From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)% Subject: VMS 7.3-2 with 48 MB memory?s$ Message-ID: <d2h4j8$hes$3@online.de>  H I am now running 7.3-1 with 48 MB memory (on a DEC 3000/300 LX).  Works H fine.  (The fact that I have swap and page files on a solid-state--disk B shadowset might help the performance a bit.)  I plan to swap this I machine (which doesn't have a CD-ROM drive) with a DEC 3000/600 with 192 . MB memory and upgrade to 7.3-2.6  1 Both of these machines are supported under 7.3-2.t  H However, the release notes say that 7.3-2 has a minimum memory of 64 MB.E I don't know if that changed with 7.3-2 or earlier.  I'm pretty sure mF that at 7.1 the minimum memory was at most 32 MB (I remember buying a D machine with 64 and noting that I had more than the minimum memory.)  I I realise that "not supported" doesn't mean "doesn't work".  However, it oF would be nice to know if anyone is running 7.3-2 with less than 64 MB  memory.a  G For the record, I didn't install or upgrade to 7.3-2 on the 300LX, but hI rather did so on a 255/233 (the machine with 64 MB) and, when it died (I s? just need to find the time and money to get a capacitor on the I3 motherboard replaced) I replaced it with the 300LX.s  G I thus don't plan to install or upgrade to 7.3-2 on the 300LX either.  bH Rather, I plan to do so on the 600 after swapping the machines (keeping H the system disk).  However, when I'm done, I'd like to take a minimally F modified clone (see next post) of the system disk (it is a shadow set F anyway, so cloning is easy) and use this as a new system disk for the F 300LX, having an additional machine in the cluster (the other two are  VAXes at 7.3).  F I know it's not supported.  I know it might work.  Still, it would be C interesting to hear if anyone has done this.  And, if it makes any aF difference, since I don't plan to INSTALL or UPGRADE to 7.3-2 on this G machine, merely RUN 7.3-2 on this machine, could it be that running is nC supported while installing or upgrading isn't?  (Theoretically the  G upgrade and/or installation process could require more physical memory aI to be present than on a running system, especially in my case with large   and fast swap and page files.)   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 23:15:14 +0100a# From: issinoho <issinoho@gmail.com>p Subject: Re: VMS Torrentsu: Message-ID: <1112048095.18196.0@sabbath.news.uk.clara.net>   Andreas Davour wrote:e' > issinoho <issinoho@gmail.com> writes:  >  > G >>Let me put this another way... if I set up a tracker would (a) anyoneoA >>out there be prepared to actively participate, and (b) find thef >>service useful?e >>E >>Lets face it we could end up with a pretty extensive archive of DEC B >>software - available for instant download - now wouldn't that be
 >>attractive?f >  > J > It would be useful, and attractive. At least for me. But, I'd like it toI > be sanctioned by the current owners of VMS so they don't percieve it astB > a threat to their property. Then they might pull the plug on the4 > hobbyist licence which I don't want to see happen. > 
 > /andreas >   G Agreed. Still nobody has confirmed one way or the other whether or not  F HP would consider this a problem. I feel like I'm fighting this thing F way too much - surely the very existence of the hobbyist program must ( have been triggered by similar concerns?   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 23:19:47 +0100a# From: issinoho <issinoho@gmail.com>  Subject: Re: VMS Torrents 5 Message-ID: <1112048369.13918.0@eunomia.uk.clara.net>t   Doc. wrote:o# > %NEWS-I-NEWMSG, issinoho wrote in / > news:1112045488.19268.0@despina.uk.clara.net d >  > 
 >>Doc. wrote:! >  >  > <snip> > C >>>There's an informal person-2-person way of getting hold of kits,tE >>>either through LUGs, or even just posting here with information oneG >>>your location (and it not look like crackbegging ;).  I had the good E >>>fortune to have someone provide me with kits after asking here andl >>>getting in touch off- group.h >  > H >>I appreciate that, and I have used just such an approach in the past. F >>This isn't however just a way of me trying to scounge the latest set? >>of kits; it's more about the general way in which VMS becomes G >>available to those who want it. I can't help feeling that we conspireoH >>to make life harder than it ought to be. I don't think I need to spell
 >>it out.  >  > I > I searched the infamous http://www.piratebay.org for VMS or OpenVMS, I  H > like to think it says something positive about the Hobbyist community  > that I got zero results. >  >  > Doc.  ? Torrents are not inherently illegal. Put to the proper use the IF technology is a valuable method of distributed information sharing. I D would also re-iterate that IMHO the existence of VMS kits on public I trackers would invariably be ignored by the public at large - I mean who tF other than the committed has access to the hardware to run any of the  software ???   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Mar 2005 18:05:47 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)r Subject: Re: VMS Torrents 3 Message-ID: <7li3NN8cXZEG@eisner.encompasserve.org>h  [ In article <3arbplF6bvo0dU1@individual.net>, "Hans Vlems" <hvlems.dotweg@zonnet.nl> writes:o  G >> I should have been more clear, indicating that my question was abouth> >> the legality of kit copying _between_ commercial customers. > M > Which is a valid point in its own right, but licenses are tied to a system.  > A PAK is indeed not N > a license so even if one is allowed to copy CD's for internal use you'd need > a valid license to > run the product.: But the ability to copy kits is a matter of copyright law,! independent of PAKs and licenses.o  ? Permission has been granted to copy kits for hobbyist purposes,u3 but I have not heard of it for commercial purposes.y   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 23:58:04 -0500p/ From: "Randal T. Rioux" <randy@procyonlabs.com>t Subject: Re: VMS Torrents)B Message-ID: <1112072138.78609e85221f2eb8994ce3fecc217532@teranews>   I'm for it. I'll participate.l  I It can only help to make VMS more popular. Licensing is so old fashioned.f   Commence flaming!!   Randyc     issinoho wrote: H > Let me put this another way... if I set up a tracker would (a) anyone J > out there be prepared to actively participate, and (b) find the service 	 > useful?o > F > Lets face it we could end up with a pretty extensive archive of DEC C > software - available for instant download - now wouldn't that be u
 > attractive?i >  > issinoho wrote:n >  >> Just a thought... >>E >> If one was to establish a BitTorrent tracker whereby VMS software oE >> could be exchanged would this constitute anything naughty/illegal?6 >>E >> Hobbyists have the devils job getting hold of CONDIST versions of t? >> software which they are entitled to use by ownership of the  J >> appropriate PAK, not to mention upgrades to VMS itself; it makes sense H >> that our more fortunate colleagues who have access to past & present < >> versions of the software make them available for sharing. >>G >> If I'm shot down in flames for this then fair enough, however I for  E >> one would be happy to be involved in the hosting & infrastructure  @ >> arrangements. Perhaps a small Paypal based contribution from - >> subscribers could fund any hosting issues.i >>E >> How would HP react to such a system? I'd be grateful for informed m >> input on this matter.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 01:22:19 -0500r' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>i Subject: Re: VMS Torrentso0 Message-ID: <114hse134ienl42@corp.supernews.com>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:] > In article <3arbplF6bvo0dU1@individual.net>, "Hans Vlems" <hvlems.dotweg@zonnet.nl> writes:t >  > G >>>I should have been more clear, indicating that my question was aboutt> >>>the legality of kit copying _between_ commercial customers. >>M >>Which is a valid point in its own right, but licenses are tied to a system.s >>A PAK is indeed notfN >>a license so even if one is allowed to copy CD's for internal use you'd need >>a valid license to >>run the product. > < > But the ability to copy kits is a matter of copyright law,# > independent of PAKs and licenses.e > A > Permission has been granted to copy kits for hobbyist purposes,o5 > but I have not heard of it for commercial purposes.b  D That's because such permission has never been given, at least to my I knowledge.  Now, copyright lay allows you to make a backup copy, in case tE the original is lost or damaged.  But for those getting ConDist, the o6 larger problem is what to do with all the copies.  :-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 01:29:28 -0500o' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>w Subject: Re: VMS Torrents 0 Message-ID: <114hsreajlvvj24@corp.supernews.com>   issinoho wrote:  > Andreas Davour wrote:n > ( >> issinoho <issinoho@gmail.com> writes: >> >>I >>> Let me put this another way... if I set up a tracker would (a) anyonetC >>> out there be prepared to actively participate, and (b) find the  >>> service useful?L >>>RG >>> Lets face it we could end up with a pretty extensive archive of DECaD >>> software - available for instant download - now wouldn't that be >>> attractive?  >> >> >>K >> It would be useful, and attractive. At least for me. But, I'd like it tosJ >> be sanctioned by the current owners of VMS so they don't percieve it asC >> a threat to their property. Then they might pull the plug on thec5 >> hobbyist licence which I don't want to see happen.t >> >> /andreasa >> > I > Agreed. Still nobody has confirmed one way or the other whether or not lH > HP would consider this a problem. I feel like I'm fighting this thing H > way too much - surely the very existence of the hobbyist program must * > have been triggered by similar concerns?  H This issue has come up before.  Multiple times.  DEC/Compaq/HP has been C consistantly silent on the issue.  That silence in itself may be a lH message.  First, they have not given permission.  Second, they have not I added to the wording in the licenses and on the media, so while the word nF is NO, they're not emphasizing it, thus leading some to share or sell 
 the media.  G It would be much more clear if even off the record some representative lE of HP were to say that the media cannot be shared, copied, and such. mD The silence seems to be tacit approval of the activity without them  giving up any rights.R   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 01:31:21 -0500I' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>P Subject: Re: VMS Torrentsr0 Message-ID: <114hsuu8ogh3j63@corp.supernews.com>   Randal T. Rioux wrote: > I'm for it. I'll participate.n > K > It can only help to make VMS more popular. Licensing is so old fashioned.r >  > Commence flaming!! >  > Randyr  E Personal property is so old fashioned.  I'm sure you'll provide your t7 banking account numbers so that I can share your funds.g   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Mar 2005 04:00:35 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)e Subject: Re: VMS Torrentsg3 Message-ID: <wUEEocjKSMeg@eisner.encompasserve.org>u  Z In article <114hsuu8ogh3j63@corp.supernews.com>, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes: > Randal T. Rioux wrote:  >> I'm for it. I'll participate. >> oL >> It can only help to make VMS more popular. Licensing is so old fashioned. >> m >> Commence flaming!!t >> s >> Randy > G > Personal property is so old fashioned.  I'm sure you'll provide your  9 > banking account numbers so that I can share your funds.o  D Me too !   Me too !   I could use a nice June vacation to Nashua NH.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 16:58:18 GMTn% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>R Subject: Re: VMS TorrentsI= Message-ID: <KOf2e.12312$ZB6.2646@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com>   5 "Dave Froble" <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in message c* news:114hsreajlvvj24@corp.supernews.com... > issinoho wrote:w >> Andreas Davour wrote: >>) >>> issinoho <issinoho@gmail.com> writes:a >>>l >>> J >>>> Let me put this another way... if I set up a tracker would (a) anyoneD >>>> out there be prepared to actively participate, and (b) find the >>>> service useful? >>>>H >>>> Lets face it we could end up with a pretty extensive archive of DECE >>>> software - available for instant download - now wouldn't that bet >>>> attractive? >>>  >>>. >>>tL >>> It would be useful, and attractive. At least for me. But, I'd like it toK >>> be sanctioned by the current owners of VMS so they don't percieve it asoD >>> a threat to their property. Then they might pull the plug on the6 >>> hobbyist licence which I don't want to see happen. >>>u >>> /andreas >>>  >>M >> Agreed. Still nobody has confirmed one way or the other whether or not HP tJ >> would consider this a problem. I feel like I'm fighting this thing way J >> too much - surely the very existence of the hobbyist program must have & >> been triggered by similar concerns? >lJ > This issue has come up before.  Multiple times.  DEC/Compaq/HP has been E > consistantly silent on the issue.  That silence in itself may be a eJ > message.  First, they have not given permission.  Second, they have not K > added to the wording in the licenses and on the media, so while the word rL > is NO, they're not emphasizing it, thus leading some to share or sell the  > media. >oL > It would be much more clear if even off the record some representative of H > HP were to say that the media cannot be shared, copied, and such. The L > silence seems to be tacit approval of the activity without them giving up 
 > any rights.    I AM NOT A LAWYER!  M What silence?  You can't swing a dead cat without seeing a copyright notice. nK That's a clear indication that OpenVMS is covered by copyright laws.  What oL you can and can't do is governed by copyright laws, court decisions and the J license to copy that you may have.  When you buy a CD or DVD or book, you L have some basic rights, you can loan them to someone, sell them on e-bay or K hang them on your Christmas tree.  HP doesn't sue people that sell Condist wG kits on e-bay because they know that they would probably lose the case..  J But, when you post the kits on the internet and let people download them, M then you're making copies and that is probably a violation of copyright laws d (just ask the RIAA).  J It was extraordinary that HP granted the Hobbyist folks the right to make M copies of software kits, I would be surprised if HP let people start posting t it on the internet.o      ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 13:09:41 -0500a' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>r Subject: Re: VMS Torrents-0 Message-ID: <114j5sbmg268u99@corp.supernews.com>   John Vottero wrote:m  O > What silence?  You can't swing a dead cat without seeing a copyright notice. cF > That's a clear indication that OpenVMS is covered by copyright laws.  F Yes, I'm aware of that.  However the question seems to come up enough F that HP would be aware of it.  One would expect them to at least once A point to the copyright notice.  I'm not aware of such happening. mD Doesn't mean much.  Has anyone seen anything from HP on the subject?  G At the risk of sounding like JF, I'm thinking HP is Ok with it as long o< as it doesn't become obvious.  Not that that means anything.  = Now copying PAKs, that I think they'd get real serious about.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 14:44:46 -0500 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>o Subject: Re: VMS Torrents , Message-ID: <4pmdnV1C9I-sLdTfRVn-rg@igs.net>   Dave Froble wrote: > John Vottero wrote:  > G >> What silence?  You can't swing a dead cat without seeing a copyrightt? >> notice. That's a clear indication that OpenVMS is covered by. >> copyright laws. > G > Yes, I'm aware of that.  However the question seems to come up enoughlG > that HP would be aware of it.  One would expect them to at least oncehB > point to the copyright notice.  I'm not aware of such happening.F > Doesn't mean much.  Has anyone seen anything from HP on the subject? >mH > At the risk of sounding like JF, I'm thinking HP is Ok with it as long> > as it doesn't become obvious.  Not that that means anything. > ? > Now copying PAKs, that I think they'd get real serious about.a    I Sometimes if you don't enforce your rights you lose them.....usually that I happens to the little guys, but not the giants like HP - the courts would K probably side with them and you and I don't have enough money to appeal thef decision even if it was wrong.     --F OpenVMS - The never advertised operating system with the dwindling ISV base.-   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 11:54:40 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>l Subject: Re: VMS Torrentst( Message-ID: <opsoez9ey0zgicya@hyrrokkin>  F On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 14:44:46 -0500, John Smith <a@nonymous.com> wrote:   > Dave Froble wrote: >> John Vottero wrote: >>H >>> What silence?  You can't swing a dead cat without seeing a copyright@ >>> notice. That's a clear indication that OpenVMS is covered by >>> copyright laws.C >>H >> Yes, I'm aware of that.  However the question seems to come up enoughH >> that HP would be aware of it.  One would expect them to at least onceC >> point to the copyright notice.  I'm not aware of such happening. G >> Doesn't mean much.  Has anyone seen anything from HP on the subject?  >>I >> At the risk of sounding like JF, I'm thinking HP is Ok with it as longo? >> as it doesn't become obvious.  Not that that means anything.  >>@ >> Now copying PAKs, that I think they'd get real serious about. >r >dK > Sometimes if you don't enforce your rights you lose them.....usually thateK > happens to the little guys, but not the giants like HP - the courts would5K > probably side with them and you and I don't have enough money to appeal  c > thet  > decision even if it was wrong.  $ Isn't the question of harm relevant? >  >  > --H > OpenVMS - The never advertised operating system with the dwindling ISV > base.d >s >p   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Mar 2005 12:04:51 -0800; From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com>R Subject: Re: VMS TorrentsTC Message-ID: <1112126691.643964.302180@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>a   Dave Froble wrote: > Randal T. Rioux wrote:! > > I'm for it. I'll participate.- > >-B > > It can only help to make VMS more popular. Licensing is so old
 fashioned. > >e > > Commence flaming!! > >o	 > > Randyb >dF > Personal property is so old fashioned.  I'm sure you'll provide your9 > banking account numbers so that I can share your funds.n   Da! Comrade!  ;)   ------------------------------   Date: 29 Mar 2005 23:09:25 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: VMS Torrentse, Message-ID: <3au5h5F6cqe3cU1@individual.net>  0 In article <114j5sbmg268u99@corp.supernews.com>,* 	Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes: > John Vottero wrote:n > P >> What silence?  You can't swing a dead cat without seeing a copyright notice. G >> That's a clear indication that OpenVMS is covered by copyright laws.A > H > Yes, I'm aware of that.  However the question seems to come up enough   I Comes up where?  comp.os.vms?  Surely yu don't think this piddlin' littleoH newsgroup has an status whatsoever?  HP post copyright notices where theH law requires.  If you have a ConDist then you have the copyright notice.6 Nothing else is required or would make any difference.  H > that HP would be aware of it.  One would expect them to at least once C > point to the copyright notice.  I'm not aware of such happening. wF > Doesn't mean much.  Has anyone seen anything from HP on the subject?  4 Yeah.  Copyright printed right on the Condist disks.   > I > At the risk of sounding like JF, I'm thinking HP is Ok with it as long :> > as it doesn't become obvious.  Not that that means anything.  A I wouldn't want to be the guy they decided to make an example of.    > ? > Now copying PAKs, that I think they'd get real serious about.o   bill   -- :J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 29 Mar 2005 23:11:56 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: VMS Torrentss, Message-ID: <3au5lrF6cqe3cU2@individual.net>  B In article <1112072138.78609e85221f2eb8994ce3fecc217532@teranews>,2 	"Randal T. Rioux" <randy@procyonlabs.com> writes: > I'm for it. I'll participate.d > K > It can only help to make VMS more popular. Licensing is so old fashioned.t >   A This attitude is pretty much why there is no Hobbyist program fori9 any of the former DEC PDP-11 OSes (other than Ultrix-11).k   bill     -- nJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 20:00:01 -0500n  From: nobody <nobody@nobody.org> Subject: Re: VMS Torrents B Message-ID: <1112144366.2b57232731383bdd6c191b4a2e15a565@teranews>   Tom Linden wrote:    & > Isn't the question of harm relevant?    H Yes and no. It is a question of the owner of the IP/copyright taking the% steps necessary to prevent its abuse.u  E If an the unauthorized use of IP is tolerated by the onwer because it D does no harm, when the time comes to sue because one copier is doingG harm, then the owner has much less weight in front of the judge because-- he allowed his IP to be freely copied before.0   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 20:18:26 -0500n/ From: "Randal T. Rioux" <randy@procyonlabs.com>F Subject: Re: VMS TorrentssB Message-ID: <1112145354.831218addb949da57b8634bae40b5fae@teranews>  G It seems my point was missed. Example: Solaris. The only reason why it  H is so popular at this time is because licensing is open for educational C purposes. A base of qualified admins is created, and the demand in eF business goes up. Much closed source and tightly licensed software is G poorly designed and very expensive because of the horrible hidden code   and light usage.  H Advancement comes with evaluation. Greed supercedes distribution. Smart A developers can make money without strangling their customer base..   Randyj     Larry Kilgallen wrote:\ > In article <114hsuu8ogh3j63@corp.supernews.com>, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes: >  >>Randal T. Rioux wrote: >>  >>>I'm for it. I'll participate. >>>nL >>>It can only help to make VMS more popular. Licensing is so old fashioned. >>>  >>>Commence flaming!!d >>>  >>>Randy >>G >>Personal property is so old fashioned.  I'm sure you'll provide your B9 >>banking account numbers so that I can share your funds.r >  > F > Me too !   Me too !   I could use a nice June vacation to Nashua NH.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 20:45:33 -0600a2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> Subject: Re: VMS Torrents + Message-ID: <424A12CC.9FA585D7@comcast.net>w   issinoho wrote:e >  > Just a thought...( > I > If one was to establish a BitTorrent tracker whereby VMS software couldA> > be exchanged would this constitute anything naughty/illegal? > C > Hobbyists have the devils job getting hold of CONDIST versions of3I > software which they are entitled to use by ownership of the appropriatecJ > PAK, not to mention upgrades to VMS itself; it makes sense that our moreH > fortunate colleagues who have access to past & present versions of the+ > software make them available for sharing.n >  > [snip] > I > How would HP react to such a system? I'd be grateful for informed inputo > on this matter.l  F Well, even if hp could be convinced, I doubt that P2P would be the way they'd want to go.  F ...and while I understand the statements about protecting hp's IP, theE software with the PAK is not entirely useful. The CDs (and DVDs?) sayaE that a valid license is required to validate posession and use of the3D media. The Hobbyist License and the associated e-mailed PAK replicasF would likely fill that requirement legally, but I'm not the one to say one way or the other.k  F That's what I was thinking while writing my DCL proc.'s to "distill" aH full SPL down to a "hobbyist's SPL". I was hoping to be able to make CDsD and distribute them at "DECUS", perhaps by donating them to the D/FWD folks and letting them keep the proceeds, or pass them back into hp,% which ever would be most appropriate.u  C With the passing of JW, I'm unsure of who I could approach with the H question/suggestion. Now, with Mark G. transitioning out of the lead VMS- role, I'd have even less idea where to begin.p  E If any hp insiders have any ideas, please e-mail me privately. How tor' de-mung the reply-to should be obvious.o   -- p David J Dachtera dba DJE Systemst http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:h" http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/-  " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/a   Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 23:39:31 -0500)- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>x Subject: Re: VMS TorrentshB Message-ID: <1112157525.c912b9a1b32cd228763aded3d360347c@teranews>   David J Dachtera wrote:o  E > With the passing of JW, I'm unsure of who I could approach with theOJ > question/suggestion. Now, with Mark G. transitioning out of the lead VMS/ > role, I'd have even less idea where to begin.e    E The new "guy" at the head of VMS, Ann McQuaid was listed in a list of G people to thank for the hobbyist programme way back then. So she should>$ still be receptive to the programme.  F Earlier this week, I was communicating with our beloved Sue about thisG issue.  She was under the impression that openvms.org was already doing 	 this job.D  D My suggestion was for HP to grant one access to the on-line downloadH site, and that person could then copy and serve individual kits based on: requests from hobbyists (with some form of autentication).  ? At this point in time, how the kits would be served is not veryaE important. Getting approval in principle from HP would be first step,R2 and then figuring out the mechanics would be next.  A Consider that Digital wanted a controlled hobbyist programme with F registration and 1 year expiration requiring re-issue each year. It is? therefore likely that they would want some form of control overn distribution of kits as well.   G It is best to ask for something which is reasonable rather than ask fori* full fledge public uncontrolled dowwnload.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 21:23:15 -0600f2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> Subject: Re: VMS Torrentsi+ Message-ID: <424B6D23.8BC7B8DD@comcast.net>-   JF Mezei wrote:  >  > David J Dachtera wrote:o > G > > With the passing of JW, I'm unsure of who I could approach with theaL > > question/suggestion. Now, with Mark G. transitioning out of the lead VMS1 > > role, I'd have even less idea where to begin.. > G > The new "guy" at the head of VMS, Ann McQuaid was listed in a list of.I > people to thank for the hobbyist programme way back then. So she shoulde& > still be receptive to the programme. > H > Earlier this week, I was communicating with our beloved Sue about thisI > issue.  She was under the impression that openvms.org was already doingo > this job.R > F > My suggestion was for HP to grant one access to the on-line downloadJ > site, and that person could then copy and serve individual kits based on< > requests from hobbyists (with some form of autentication). > A > At this point in time, how the kits would be served is not veryCG > important. Getting approval in principle from HP would be first step,t4 > and then figuring out the mechanics would be next. > C > Consider that Digital wanted a controlled hobbyist programme withhH > registration and 1 year expiration requiring re-issue each year. It isA > therefore likely that they would want some form of control overr > distribution of kits as well.e > I > It is best to ask for something which is reasonable rather than ask for , > full fledge public uncontrolled dowwnload.  F Actually, the how is rather important as business people expect you toG walk in a "fully baked cake", so to speak, not something half-baked. ItVA show sthat you're thorough and have given the matter considerable 
 attention.   -- n David J Dachtera dba DJE SystemsK http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:e" http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/m  " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/A   Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 22:03:19 +0800  From: prep@prep.synonet.com  Subject: Re: VMS Torrentst- Message-ID: <8764z6ppaw.fsf@prep.synonet.com>R  * bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:  C > This attitude is pretty much why there is no Hobbyist program fort; > any of the former DEC PDP-11 OSes (other than Ultrix-11).o  E Bill, the ORIGINAL was the PDP-11 DECUS licence. This was more like asD $0 commercial licence, the details have changed lots. I have two 11sC here with DECUS licences. Can't remember if it got to cross the bigi wet though.a   -- e< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.2@                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 16:48:02 +0100<0 From: Chris Sharman <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam>  Subject: vmstar, ods5, and dates4 Message-ID: <d2h63j$pul$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>  D vmstar seems to nicely preserve dots OR dates on ODS5, but not both.  F Eg - I expand the phpmyadmin kit (using xvdf), and get the whole tree E with all the dotted names, but the multi-dotted files (with non-ods2 aA names) get timestamped NOW, as opposed to the kit creation dates.   E It's a minor irritation which I can easily live with, but I guess it   needs reporting.  F The latest version I can find is 3.4-1 from 2001, by Richard Levitte,  Patrick Young, Hunter Goatley.  D Is it still maintained, or has it been superseded by something more 2 recent ? The original home page seems out-of-date.   Thanks Chris2   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 19:31:04 -0500: From: "DavidT" <david@hpaq.net>a" Subject: We need your DS10 systems0 Message-ID: <114p4uuc6kve8f1@news.supernews.com>  ? We are in need of a large quantity of DS10 systems  (not DS10L)s   Any configurationL  < To save time wasting we are offering to purchase as follows:  ( DS10 466Mhz working or non working $1300( DS10 617Mhz working or non working $1900  E No warranty expected - any condition as we completely refurbish thesea Damaged skins OK  % Please call david at 912-4476622 x201sK Or email: dbturner@islandco.com or mcardwell@islandco.com if you are in theh UK/EU    --   Island Computers US Corp 2700 Gregory St Suite 180t Savannah GA 31404d Tel: 912 4476622 Fax: 912 201 0402b Email: dbturner@icusc.comu   ------------------------------  * Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 08:34:27 +0000 (UTC)P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)M Subject: which firmware update do I need for a DEC 3000 (Turbochannel ALPHA)?i$ Message-ID: <d2j12i$1qo$1@online.de>  
 Do I need   J    http://ftp.digital.com/pub/DEC/Alpha/firmware/archive/turbochannel.html   or >  E    http://ftp.digital.com/pub/DEC/Alpha/firmware/archive/dec3000.html8  B or perhaps both?  If both, in what order should I do the upgrades?   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 10:35:21 GMTd5 From: rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger) Q Subject: Re: which firmware update do I need for a DEC 3000 (Turbochannel ALPHA)?-L Message-ID: <rdeininger-0104050535220001@user-uinj46t.dialup.mindspring.com>  D In article <d2j12i$1qo$1@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de1 (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) wrote:g   >Do I need e >@K >   http://ftp.digital.com/pub/DEC/Alpha/firmware/archive/turbochannel.html.  4 This update kit is for various turbochannel options.    F >   http://ftp.digital.com/pub/DEC/Alpha/firmware/archive/dec3000.html  0 These kits are for the various DEC 3000 systems.  C >or perhaps both?  If both, in what order should I do the upgrades?3  E Read the release notes (linked to both pages you referenced). Table 6eC lists the adapters with flashable firmware. I don't think the order  matters.   ------------------------------  * Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 11:17:04 +0000 (UTC)P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)Q Subject: Re: which firmware update do I need for a DEC 3000 (Turbochannel ALPHA)?e$ Message-ID: <d2jajg$d3r$1@online.de>  
 In articleA <rdeininger-0104050535220001@user-uinj46t.dialup.mindspring.com>, 8 rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger) writes:   
 > >Do I need d > >nM > >   http://ftp.digital.com/pub/DEC/Alpha/firmware/archive/turbochannel.htmlh > 6 > This update kit is for various turbochannel options. >  > H > >   http://ftp.digital.com/pub/DEC/Alpha/firmware/archive/dec3000.html > 2 > These kits are for the various DEC 3000 systems. > E > >or perhaps both?  If both, in what order should I do the upgrades?v > G > Read the release notes (linked to both pages you referenced). Table 6sE > lists the adapters with flashable firmware. I don't think the order 
 > matters.  F How can I see what adapters I have?  Or, to speed things up, is there ; any harm in doing the turbochannel-option firmware upgrade?o   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 11:36:49 GMTh5 From: rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger)iQ Subject: Re: which firmware update do I need for a DEC 3000 (Turbochannel ALPHA)?lL Message-ID: <rdeininger-0104050636470001@user-uinj46t.dialup.mindspring.com>  D In article <d2jajg$d3r$1@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de1 (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) wrote:a   >In article B ><rdeininger-0104050535220001@user-uinj46t.dialup.mindspring.com>,9 >rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger) writes:   >a >> >Do I need  >> >N >> >   http://ftp.digital.com/pub/DEC/Alpha/firmware/archive/turbochannel.html >> s7 >> This update kit is for various turbochannel options.  >> a >> oI >> >   http://ftp.digital.com/pub/DEC/Alpha/firmware/archive/dec3000.htmlt >> n3 >> These kits are for the various DEC 3000 systems.  >>  F >> >or perhaps both?  If both, in what order should I do the upgrades? >> lH >> Read the release notes (linked to both pages you referenced). Table 6F >> lists the adapters with flashable firmware. I don't think the order >> matters.e > G >How can I see what adapters I have?  Or, to speed things up, is there i< >any harm in doing the turbochannel-option firmware upgrade?  H SHOW CONFIG or the console output when you power up the system.  Or just< look at the label on the back panel of each plug-in TC card.  I Its harmless to run the updater if the supported devices are not present.h   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 21:10:35 +0200 - From: Didier Morandi <prenom.nom@freesurf.fr> % Subject: Why going to a VMS BootCamp?m4 Message-ID: <4249a83a$0$12172$626a14ce@news.free.fr>   Hi all,-
 Happy easter!   D I may consider to attend the next VMS BootCamp in Nashua in June to F recover from too many months away from VMS and meet some good friends G again (http://h71000.www7.hp.com/symposium/index.html?jumpid=symposium)   D But I'm wondering what will occur during these five days. Technical B sessions? DECUS-like Q&A? Drinks? Booths? Chat with Rich Marcello?  H Why spend so many $$ without a clue on the benefits of the trip? Or, in 5 other words, is the "new" VMS on IPF worth five days?    Thanks for your opinion.   D.  . PS: A volunteer to set up a Noters' Party? :-)   -- e,        Didier MORANDI - Expert informaticien0   13 chemin du Gu, 1213 Petit-Lancy (GE) Suisse0 Tl. : +33(0)6 7983 6418 ~ www.didiermorandi.com   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Mar 2005 16:51:44 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) ) Subject: Re: Why going to a VMS BootCamp? 3 Message-ID: <qYGz46VEAP3d@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  d In article <4249a83a$0$12172$626a14ce@news.free.fr>, Didier Morandi <prenom.nom@freesurf.fr> writes:	 > Hi all,w > Happy easter!r > F > I may consider to attend the next VMS BootCamp in Nashua in June to H > recover from too many months away from VMS and meet some good friends I > again (http://h71000.www7.hp.com/symposium/index.html?jumpid=symposium)a > F > But I'm wondering what will occur during these five days. Technical D > sessions? DECUS-like Q&A? Drinks? Booths? Chat with Rich Marcello?  E "Booths" would be a bit strong but they have tabletop VMS DevelopmentiC exhibits one night and table top third parties (more sales-like) on- another.  J > Why spend so many $$ without a clue on the benefits of the trip? Or, in 7 > other words, is the "new" VMS on IPF worth five days?s >  > Thanks for your opinion.  E My opinion is that it is worth attending even just for VAX and Alpha.e  " Of course my travel costs are low.  B But there seems to be plenty of European representation, so others feel it is worthwhile.   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Mar 2005 15:31:08 -0800! From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.come) Subject: Re: Why going to a VMS BootCamp? B Message-ID: <1112139068.861960.99180@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>  C I am partial but VMS and related VMS topics all the time, we have al@ total of 118 slots.  The Friday morning Key note is "more RocketD Science from VMS Engineering" this is a topic that the engineers areE thinking about that you will not see on any road maps probably on any E company (very cool).  As of today we are currently 50% full after onepA week open for registration.  We have VMS people from 14 countriesSD coming and in my very partial way they are some of the very best VMSC people I know.  If they choose to give there names and or companieseF that is up to them.  Just so you know everyone signs and NDA and thereF is a network set up (wired and wireless) so folks can VPN into work if@ necessary.  There is not a lot of free time.  We have activities Monday, Tuesday and Thursday.   
 Warm Regards,s Sueo     Larry Kilgallen wrote:E > In article <4249a83a$0$12172$626a14ce@news.free.fr>, Didier Morandie  <prenom.nom@freesurf.fr> writes: > > Hi all,  > > Happy easter!  > >iG > > I may consider to attend the next VMS BootCamp in Nashua in June toB  A > > recover from too many months away from VMS and meet some good  friendst	 > > againiA (http://h71000.www7.hp.com/symposium/index.html?jumpid=symposium)h > >fG > > But I'm wondering what will occur during these five days. Technicale  F > > sessions? DECUS-like Q&A? Drinks? Booths? Chat with Rich Marcello? > G > "Booths" would be a bit strong but they have tabletop VMS DevelopmentsE > exhibits one night and table top third parties (more sales-like) onn
 > another. >'D > > Why spend so many $$ without a clue on the benefits of the trip? Or, in9 > > other words, is the "new" VMS on IPF worth five days?  > >r > > Thanks for your opinion. > G > My opinion is that it is worth attending even just for VAX and Alpha.  > $ > Of course my travel costs are low. >'D > But there seems to be plenty of European representation, so others > feel it is worthwhile.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 20:14:55 -0800i4 From: Alan Frisbie <Usenet02_REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com>) Subject: Re: Why going to a VMS BootCamp? % Message-ID: <1112155975.808611@smirk>n   Didier Morandi wrote:s  F > I may consider to attend the next VMS BootCamp in Nashua in June to H > recover from too many months away from VMS and meet some good friends I > again (http://h71000.www7.hp.com/symposium/index.html?jumpid=symposium)  > F > But I'm wondering what will occur during these five days. Technical D > sessions? DECUS-like Q&A? Drinks? Booths? Chat with Rich Marcello? > J > Why spend so many $$ without a clue on the benefits of the trip? Or, in 7 > other words, is the "new" VMS on IPF worth five days?i  : Since I pay for it out of my own pocket, I think it is the> best VMS value for the dollar (or whatever your local currency> is)!   It is like a subset of an old-time DECUS symposium, but. with all the sessions given by the developers.  @ The sessions will leave you torn between two (or more) excellentA topics.   But it is the hallway, lunchtime, and bar conversationsi= that are sometimes the most valuable.   I was having a TCP/IP-; problem and mentioned it to the responsible developer.   Hee; whipped out his laptop, logged into his development system,e> set up the situation I described, and demonstrated the answer!  < The people there (both HP and attendees) are the best of the? best.   With the limits on how many people can be accommodated,p= this tends to filter out the casual attendees.   What is leftv are the serious VMS fanatics.h  B If you are serious about VMS, and you can only go to one symposium; per year, this is the one.   Every Bootcamp has given me atf; least one nugget of information that was worth the price of < admission, and it's hardly ever something I was looking for.   Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 08:59:29 +0200o- From: Didier Morandi <prenom.nom@freesurf.fr>t) Subject: Re: Why going to a VMS BootCamp?>4 Message-ID: <424a4e55$0$12180$626a14ce@news.free.fr>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:  G > My opinion is that it is worth attending even just for VAX and Alpha. $ > Of course my travel costs are low.D > But there seems to be plenty of European representation, so others > feel it is worthwhile.  G My opinion is that I need to figure out from the show whether I should cF continue to spend money on VMS equipments and training or not, due to > the nearly absolute existence of VMS business in Europe today.  G However, I received two days ago a phone call from an HP engineer from tE Germany who read my post in here on "how to purchase an I64 box" and ,G told me about the migration sessions occurring here and there. He told i9 me that VMS/I64 business was really growing in Germany...m   D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 16:48:36 -0500d- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>l2 Subject: X-windows: changing cursor from and AST ?B Message-ID: <1112219312.6ff239a9957adc92052bbae698d71b5c@teranews>  E In an application which has a function which can either be instant orrG take a long time depending on size and type of contents, I'd like to beuG able to trigger a busy X-windows cursor only if it is to take a certaine amount of time..  F Since the loop is outside the X-events main loop, and since it usuallyD executes rather quickly, would it be possible (knowing that the loopF itself does not generate any X-windows updates to the display) to haveH an AST triggered by a timer say one second after start of loop to change the cursor to a busy cursor ?e* (and possibly update cursor every second).  E When the loop completes, it simply cancels the timer and then revertsp the cursor back to normal.  G If the loop performs some windows functions, would it be just a case oflC canceling AST delivery before you make a call to an X function (andi re-activating it later) ?.   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Mar 2005 02:33:21 -0800) From: "Bob Gezelter" <gezelter@rlgsc.com>v6 Subject: Re: X-windows: changing cursor from and AST ?C Message-ID: <1112265201.322075.179660@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>i   JF Mezei wrote: G > In an application which has a function which can either be instant orrF > take a long time depending on size and type of contents, I'd like to beA > able to trigger a busy X-windows cursor only if it is to take ae certaint > amount of time.  >m@ > Since the loop is outside the X-events main loop, and since it usually>F > executes rather quickly, would it be possible (knowing that the loopC > itself does not generate any X-windows updates to the display) to  haveC > an AST triggered by a timer say one second after start of loop tob change > the cursor to a busy cursor ?>, > (and possibly update cursor every second). >eG > When the loop completes, it simply cancels the timer and then revertsw > the cursor back to normal. >vF > If the loop performs some windows functions, would it be just a case ofE > canceling AST delivery before you make a call to an X function (ands > re-activating it later) ?    JF,h  G Since you are running most of the loop in process level, this is one oflD the rare times when the old [generally bad] example of how to use an AST is appropriate.b  F Request a TIMER operation, with an AST and a AST Parameter that pointsG to a data structure. When the AST fires, flip a flag that specifies the 
 cursor style.r  2 To maximize cleanliness, there are two approaches:  F - as you mentioned, cancel the timer request, but you must be careful,6 you can create a race condition if you are not carefulF - the approach I prefer, is to manage some form of event number, and aC table as the AST parameter. Then you can arrange things to that theoD timer is not canceled,  but does not produce any changes if it is noA longer relevant. This avoids the possibility of a race condition.l  ! I hope that the above is helpful.u  $ - Bob Gezelter, http://www.rlgsc.com   ------------------------------   Date: 31 Mar 05 13:54:56 EST) From: cook@wvnvms.wvnet.edu (George Cook)m6 Subject: Re: X-windows: changing cursor from and AST ?! Message-ID: <dnUChOssuQCn@wvnvms>A  r In article <1112219312.6ff239a9957adc92052bbae698d71b5c@teranews>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:G > In an application which has a function which can either be instant oriI > take a long time depending on size and type of contents, I'd like to betI > able to trigger a busy X-windows cursor only if it is to take a certainh > amount of time.e > H > Since the loop is outside the X-events main loop, and since it usuallyF > executes rather quickly, would it be possible (knowing that the loopH > itself does not generate any X-windows updates to the display) to haveJ > an AST triggered by a timer say one second after start of loop to change > the cursor to a busy cursor ?y, > (and possibly update cursor every second). > G > When the loop completes, it simply cancels the timer and then reverts  > the cursor back to normal. > I > If the loop performs some windows functions, would it be just a case of-E > canceling AST delivery before you make a call to an X function (ande > re-activating it later) ?r  0 Have you looked at the function XtAppAddTimeOut?     George Cookn WVNET>   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 14:21:09 GMTi* From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>6 Subject: Re: X-windows: changing cursor from and AST ?2 Message-ID: <pNc3e.2735$oW2.2372@news.cpqcorp.net>  ! X11 is thread safe, Motif is not.   : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message< news:1112299139.a869757ce675b7816430e0ee8e2ee5c9@teranews... > George Cook wrote:4 > > Have you looked at the function XtAppAddTimeOut? > G > Yes, but the problem is that this XtAppAddTimeout assumes that events  > are being processed. >sJ > In my case, if I am in the middle of some time consuming loop that isn'tE > broken up into small work procedures because usually this procedure2J > completes very fast, then the main event loop doesn't get executed sinceE > I am still inside a callback. So XtAppAddTimeout would simply queueFF > events that woudl get executed after the lengthy loop has completed. > J > What I need to do is to develop a prototype application where all of theG > work is queued and separate threads rtead from the queue, do work and I > put stuff back into a "completed queue" which the main pthread picks upaB > and uses to update the display.  Thsi way, the main thread woudlB > alremain responsive since it would never do any heavy duty work. >.I > And because X on VMS is old and not thread safe, I would have to add myuJ > own semaphores whenever a separate thread needs to update an opject used, > by X (for instances fill a XmText widget). >oI > But until then, I need to fidn easy solutions to preventing an app from  > becoming unresponsive.   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Apr 2005 10:40:07 -0800u  From: peut@peut.org (Jose Baars)6 Subject: Re: X-windows: changing cursor from and AST ?< Message-ID: <50cb0cb6.0504011040.5beb581@posting.google.com>  t "Bob Gezelter" <gezelter@rlgsc.com> wrote in message news:<1112265201.322075.179660@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>... > JF Mezei wrote:24 > To maximize cleanliness, there are two approaches: > H > - as you mentioned, cancel the timer request, but you must be careful,8 > you can create a race condition if you are not carefulH > - the approach I prefer, is to manage some form of event number, and aE > table as the AST parameter. Then you can arrange things to that the F > timer is not canceled,  but does not produce any changes if it is noC > longer relevant. This avoids the possibility of a race condition.s > # > I hope that the above is helpful.b > & > - Bob Gezelter, http://www.rlgsc.com  D Could you elaborate a bit on the precautions and the race condition?= If you cancel a timer with the timer-id, what could go wrong?H   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Mar 2005 03:12:05 -0800) From: "Ron Atkinson" <oj_287@yahoo.co.uk>n Subject: Zero IOSB statustC Message-ID: <1112267525.611587.217520@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>g  @ When performing a QIO READVBLK + IO$M_LOCKBUF on an IP listeningF socket, the QIO status is OK but the read IOSB status is returning the value 0 instead of 1.   A When I step through this bit of code using the pascal debugger it  returns 1 as expected.  < In both cases the function works OK. What am I doing wrong ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 12:17:23 +0100e* From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Zero IOSB status-2 Message-ID: <d2gm83$j12$1@blackmamba.itd.rl.ac.uk>  4 "Ron Atkinson" <oj_287@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message= news:1112267525.611587.217520@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...3  B > When performing a QIO READVBLK + IO$M_LOCKBUF on an IP listeningH > socket, the QIO status is OK but the read IOSB status is returning the > value 0 instead of 1.u >.C > When I step through this bit of code using the pascal debugger it  > returns 1 as expected. >o> > In both cases the function works OK. What am I doing wrong ?  E At a guess: not waiting for the IO to complete. Step through the code 	 faster ;)-   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 12:47:03 +0100e- From: Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com>e Subject: Re: Zero IOSB statusi, Message-ID: <3b26evF6d83i8U1@individual.net>   Ron Atkinson wrote:D  B > When performing a QIO READVBLK + IO$M_LOCKBUF on an IP listeningH > socket, the QIO status is OK but the read IOSB status is returning the > value 0 instead of 1.  > C > When I step through this bit of code using the pascal debugger ita > returns 1 as expected. > > > In both cases the function works OK. What am I doing wrong ?   Probably nothing!t  @ I came across what appeared to be a similar race condition a few> months back, where the QIO EFN was being set *before* the IOSB< had been filled in.  I haven't had time to analyse properly,> but I /think/ there's one of the common IO completion routines@ whose name escapes me at the moment, where a MB (Memory Barrier)@ instruction should have been in there to avoid exactly this sortA of thing happening (at least, that's what I tentatively deduced).r  G The condition would only ever manifest itself on *fast* multi-processori8 machines, like ES45 etc. (does this fit your scenario ?)  4 I'll dig through my notes when I can find some time.  E P.s. the common IO completion routines (from the VMS Source listings) @ have plenty of comments from names that most here will instantly
 recognise.  	 Roy Omondh Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 12:53:28 +0100 - From: Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com>r Subject: Re: Zero IOSB status , Message-ID: <3b26qvF6gh577U1@individual.net>   Roy Omond wrote:   > [...snip...] > 6 > I'll dig through my notes when I can find some time. > G > P.s. the common IO completion routines (from the VMS Source listings)cB > have plenty of comments from names that most here will instantly > recognise.  = Just had a quick look ... I think the routine in question was = IOCIOPOST.  I'll try to find more time to look in more depth.m  	 Roy OmondL Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 13:13:23 GMT ( From: "Hein" <hein.nomail@hp.nomail.com> Subject: Re: Zero IOSB status 2 Message-ID: <THS2e.2615$ZD1.1821@news.cpqcorp.net>  4 "Ron Atkinson" <oj_287@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message= news:1112267525.611587.217520@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...iB > When performing a QIO READVBLK + IO$M_LOCKBUF on an IP listeningH > socket, the QIO status is OK but the read IOSB status is returning the > value 0 instead of 1.m  I The QIO status OK shows that the QIO has succesfully started and that you4L can expect an AST (if you requested one) and a valid IOSB when the operation is done.  L The 0 in the IOSB says the IO is not done. Hang around some more (debugger!) and it will change\e6 Did yo mean to issue QIO or did you perhaps need QIOW? Check out SYS$SYNCH?   >> What am I doing wrong ?  L you are not waiting when you should, or ask the system (QIOW) to do the wait for you?   Hein.h   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 15:17:14 +0100 - From: Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com>- Subject: Re: Zero IOSB status0, Message-ID: <3b2f8jF6brjobU1@individual.net>   Hein wrote:s  6 > "Ron Atkinson" <oj_287@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message? > news:1112267525.611587.217520@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...  > B >>When performing a QIO READVBLK + IO$M_LOCKBUF on an IP listeningH >>socket, the QIO status is OK but the read IOSB status is returning the >>value 0 instead of 1.r >eK > The QIO status OK shows that the QIO has succesfully started and that younN > can expect an AST (if you requested one) and a valid IOSB when the operation
 > is done.  	 Hoi Hein,g  G I'd always thought that the *event* *flag* in a QIO and QIOW would onlyrB ever get set once the QIO(W) has *completed*.  The comments in the4 source to IOCIOPOST seem to suggest that this is so:  8 00006214 12776 ; X-14	RNG5014	(name deleted)  2-Feb-1987F 00006214 12777 ; The IOSB must be written before the event flag postedD 00006214 12778 ; for all processes. For processes that are currentlyF 00006214 12779 ; executing, this means queueing the special kernel ASTJ 00006214 12780 ; before the event flag is posted. For all other processes,0 00006214 12781 ; the behavior is the same as V4.  B In the case that I have been talking about, the Event Flag is most? definitely being set *before* the IOSB has been filled in.  I'ma@ almost suspecting that, since Ron Atkinson has mentioned Pascal,A that he might even be talking about exactly the same thing.  Ron,4/ does your workplace begin with the letter "R" ?   	 Roy Omondt Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Mar 2005 08:17:23 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)n Subject: Re: Zero IOSB statusi3 Message-ID: <5qPOGMvZYY75@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  \ In article <3b26evF6d83i8U1@individual.net>, Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com> writes: > Ron Atkinson wrote:M > C >> When performing a QIO READVBLK + IO$M_LOCKBUF on an IP listeningcI >> socket, the QIO status is OK but the read IOSB status is returning thes >> value 0 instead of 1. >> oD >> When I step through this bit of code using the pascal debugger it >> returns 1 as expected.l >> n? >> In both cases the function works OK. What am I doing wrong ?y >  > Probably nothing!w  5 Ummm, he admitted to calling $QIO rather than $QIOW !,   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Mar 2005 06:18:11 -0800) From: "Ron Atkinson" <oj_287@yahoo.co.uk>  Subject: Re: Zero IOSB statushC Message-ID: <1112278691.303828.156660@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>c  * Thanks a lot guys. The QIOW did the trick.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 16:00:39 +0100h- From: Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com>" Subject: Re: Zero IOSB statust, Message-ID: <3b2hpuF6d6mj5U1@individual.net>   Hein wrote:t  < > "Roy Omond" <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com> wrote in message( > news:3b2f8jF6brjobU1@individual.net... >  >>Hoi Hein,  >>I >>I'd always thought that the *event* *flag* in a QIO and QIOW would only / >>ever get set once the QIO(W) has *completed*.o >  >  > That is sort of old school.o- > The eventflag was believed to be main flag.hG > But since other events can set an eventflag this potentially leads tov
 > problemsM > Those problems are resolved with an interlocked setting of the IOSB as main  > flag.  > K > SYS$SYNCH implements this and its description provides some good details.d > C > The way I see it, the EFN is now a side effect not a main effect./M > You are now encouraged (notably for AST work) to NOT to use an EFN by usingeJ > the non-efn EFN$C_ENF (No Flag) instead of overloading the default EFN-0  F In my case, the event flag is definitely not being used anywhere else.D And it's definitely not EFN 0.  And it is getting set just after theG QIO is issued (was definitely clear before), and IOSB is getting filled>D in *after* the event flag is set.  I'll re-read the source, though IA seem to remember poring over it and coming to the conclusion thatMD there is the possibility of a race condition, since, IIRC, there wasD no explicit MB between the two (filling in the IOSB, and setting theE event flag).  Remember, I mentioned that the problem only ever seemedwC to occur on *fast* multi-processor machines.  The source has plenty " other MB occurrences elsewhere ...  J > VMS Programming Concepts Vol 1 chapter 6.6 "Using Event Flags" is a good! > place to brush upon this stuff.s  * I take that to bed with me every night :-)  M > Anyway.... the problem that triggered this thread turned out to be a simpel  > QIO - QIOW confusion.   A Agreed, so I'll change the Subject line if I continue the thread.    Groetjes (no, I'm not Dutch :-)e  	 Roy Omondt Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 14:44:52 GMTg( From: "Hein" <hein.nomail@hp.nomail.com> Subject: Re: Zero IOSB statusc2 Message-ID: <E1U2e.2621$WL1.1720@news.cpqcorp.net>  : "Roy Omond" <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com> wrote in message& news:3b2f8jF6brjobU1@individual.net... > Hoi Hein,o >nI > I'd always thought that the *event* *flag* in a QIO and QIOW would onlys/ > ever get set once the QIO(W) has *completed*.l   That is sort of old school.-+ The eventflag was believed to be main flag. E But since other events can set an eventflag this potentially leads to. problemsK Those problems are resolved with an interlocked setting of the IOSB as mainz flag.e  I SYS$SYNCH implements this and its description provides some good details.e  A The way I see it, the EFN is now a side effect not a main effect.hK You are now encouraged (notably for AST work) to NOT to use an EFN by using H the non-efn EFN$C_ENF (No Flag) instead of overloading the default EFN-0  H VMS Programming Concepts Vol 1 chapter 6.6 "Using Event Flags" is a good place to brush upon this stuff.r  K Anyway.... the problem that triggered this thread turned out to be a simpelu QIO - QIOW confusion.s  	 Groetjes,h Hein.n   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 15:24:58 GMT * From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com> Subject: Re: Zero IOSB statusi2 Message-ID: <eDU2e.2629$rN1.2173@news.cpqcorp.net>  : "Roy Omond" <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com> wrote in message& news:3b2hpuF6d6mj5U1@individual.net...
 > Hein wrote:e  F > in *after* the event flag is set.  I'll re-read the source, though IC > seem to remember poring over it and coming to the conclusion thatnF > there is the possibility of a race condition, since, IIRC, there wasF > no explicit MB between the two (filling in the IOSB, and setting theG > event flag).  Remember, I mentioned that the problem only ever seemed E > to occur on *fast* multi-processor machines.  The source has plenty $ > other MB occurrences elsewhere ...  ? Assuming that your memory is correct, then you cannot depend on B seeing the EFN set before the IOSB - even on a uniprocessor  - but> you will never see it on a uniprocessor because so much has toD happen before your code ever runs again to look at the IOSB and EFN.C There is no order dependency on the memory writes.  A MB in between J filling in the IOSB and setting the EFN would force all other writes to beE visible before the setting of the EFN.  A WMB in fact may do (on CPUs: that have it).  E Of course, there would also be a performance penalty of some variabley) amount (depending on the CPU) for the MB.l   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Mar 2005 23:29:14 -0800+ From: "steve" <s_bainbridge@btinternet.com>p Subject: Re: Zero IOSB status:C Message-ID: <1112340554.746156.238150@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>l  D It would be nice if someone could look at the code in question as weF never really got to the bottom of the problem. Due to time constraintsE we had to kludge the application and essentially do a MB in our code. @ It does only seem to occur on our ES45 (4x1.25 GHz CPUs) running OpenVMS v7.3   Stevea   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 00:22:35 +0000 (UTC) . From: klewis@LUMINA.MITRE.ORG (Keith A. Lewis)> Subject: Re: [Java JNI] More questions and a (clumsy) solution. Message-ID: <d2crgb$dre$1@newslocal.mitre.org>   Bernhard Dorninger <bernhard.dorningerATscchDOTat> writes in article <Xns9628AAF4C8509bdscch@193.171.255.23> dated 29 Mar 2005 14:48:26 GMT: >Hi,, >Thanks for your willingness to help so far. >yE >The more I am experimenting, the more I am tempted to think that HP 1G >didn't implement Java's System.load command according to the Java API : >spec.H >Maybe it is a bug, but it is also possible that HP left it out because C >the specified implementation would undermine OpenVMS' sys loading   >policy. I don't know. >Fact is: If I have a file/ >"DISK$USER_01:[SCCH.jni_example]example1.exe" bG >and I define a Java File object for it, the HP-VM finds it - allright.s# >(testing this with File.exists() )  >t@ >Getting the System-dependent canoncial path off the object with  >File.getCanonicalPath() returns? >/DISK$USER_01/SCCH/JNI_EXAMPLE/DISK$USER_01:[SCCH.jni_example]r
 >example1.exee  L This is a bug, which seems to happen if you pass a VMS-style filespec to the File constructor.  i  	 Try this:   E     File f = new File("/DISK$USER_01/SCCH/JNI_EXAMPLE/example1.exe"); -     System.out.println(f.getCanonicalPath());D  " Your canonical path will be fixed.  I >However, this solution requires a lot of VMS-dependent code in our base eB >app. (if (os.name.equals("OpenVMS")).....), which is really ugly. >oB >If there is any better solution than this, I would jump with joy.: >But wait! I still have to verify Phil's and Doug's hints.  F If you consider scanning the filename for ":[" less ugly than checking the OS name, go ahead and jump.a  0 --Keith Lewis              klewis {at} mitre.org> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------   Date: 30 Mar 2005 08:10:16 GMT8 From: Bernhard Dorninger <bernhard.dorningerATscchDOTat>> Subject: Re: [Java JNI] More questions and a (clumsy) solution3 Message-ID: <Xns96296776395FBbdscch@193.171.255.23>:  1 klewis@LUMINA.MITRE.ORG (Keith A. Lewis) wrote in ' news:d2crgb$dre$1@newslocal.mitre.org: )  F > Bernhard Dorninger <bernhard.dorningerATscchDOTat> writes in articleD > <Xns9628AAF4C8509bdscch@193.171.255.23> dated 29 Mar 2005 14:48:26 > GMT: i >>Hi,/- >>Thanks for your willingness to help so far.l >>F >>The more I am experimenting, the more I am tempted to think that HP H >>didn't implement Java's System.load command according to the Java API  >>spec.-H >>Maybe it is a bug, but it is also possible that HP left it out becauseD >>the specified implementation would undermine OpenVMS' sys loading  >>policy. I don't know.f >>Fact is: If I have a fileL0 >>"DISK$USER_01:[SCCH.jni_example]example1.exe" H >>and I define a Java File object for it, the HP-VM finds it - allright.$ >>(testing this with File.exists() ) >>A >>Getting the System-dependent canoncial path off the object with ! >>File.getCanonicalPath() returnsa@ >>/DISK$USER_01/SCCH/JNI_EXAMPLE/DISK$USER_01:[SCCH.jni_example] >>example1.exe > G > This is a bug, which seems to happen if you pass a VMS-style filespec3 > to the File constructor.   >  > Try this:3 > G >     File f = new File("/DISK$USER_01/SCCH/JNI_EXAMPLE/example1.exe");r/ >     System.out.println(f.getCanonicalPath());p > $ > Your canonical path will be fixed.  C The problem is NOT the ugly path. The HP-VM finds the file and can  1 handle it so this is sufficient- at least for me.2B The real problem is that System.load is NOT working the way it is ? intended in the Java spec - and since today morning I have the r> confirmation from HP about this "shortcoming" as they call it.   Thanks,j Bernhard   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 19:26:08 +0200n- From: Didier Morandi <prenom.nom@freesurf.fr>o< Subject: [OT] Noters' Party during the VMS BootCamp to come?4 Message-ID: <424d8435$0$30057$626a14ce@news.free.fr>  G Former DECcies (and other VMS lovers) are kindly invited for a Noters'  = Party one evening during the next VMS BootCamp in Great ZeKe v Area(5-10/June).  H If you know what a Noters' Party is, please get in touch with any other A folk in the Gang to choose a date and location, then let me know e! (firstname.lastname@freesurf.fr).s  G If you do not, ask for an access in the private Former DEC Soapbox via  6 Telnet to soapboxnet.org and have a look at note 1778.   See you there.  
 D. aka DTL WRU #24, -- h,        Didier MORANDI - Expert informaticien0   13 chemin du Gu, 1213 Petit-Lancy (GE) Suisse0 Tl. : +33(0)6 7983 6418 ~ www.didiermorandi.com   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Apr 2005 17:26:45 +0100h6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)* Subject: [TCPIP] remote login observations, Message-ID: <424d8455$1@NEWS.LANGSTOEGER.AT>  9 1) Login into VMS via SSH is "LOCAL" instead of "REMOTE".S! (TELNET & RLOGIN do use "REMOTE")O   I see this as a bug.  I 2) Login into VMS via SSH requires /NETWORK access in addition instead ofcD /INTERACTIVE access alone. (TELNET & RLOGIN do not require /NETWORK)   I see this as a bug, too.h7 (At least as an undocumented restriction I don't like.)o  L This is valid for TCPIP V5.4 and V5.5. The only difference is see so far is,L that in V5.4 a failed login because of a missing /NET is an intrusion recordD SSH_PASSWORD:mumble and in V5.5 there is no intrusion record at all.   What do you think ??   TIAt   -- h Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERg% Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.182 ************************ngs up, is there i< >any harm in doing the turbochannel-option firmware upgrade?  H SHOW CONFIG or the console output when you power up the system.  Or just< look at the label on the back panel of each plug-in TC card.  I Its harmless to run the updater if the supported dvb.saic.com!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!prodigy.com!rip!chi1.webusenet.com!news.webusenet.com!cyclone1.gnilink.net!spamkiller.gnilink.net!nwrddc02.gnilink.net.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail
Xref: mvb.saic.com rec.radio.swap:62028

Hey, have a return on a load of Visars....
A favorite Freddy Fingers got this radio and just couldn't wait for the
battery.... Decided to play with a power supply and alligator clips.

SO... What we have is spotty RX audio, and one-one bizillionths watt TX
power. TX audio is crystal clear and travels at least 500 yards I'm
guessing. RX Sens. is < .3uV
monitor reads zero for output so its less than .2 watts.
Guru says it's the audio amp and RF power module that bought it on the (+)
line when the clips got together.

Radio is in MINT cosmetic condition, no rubs, scratches, dents/dings, dirt,
crud or smeared lettering. Was in a nylon case all it's life and looks new.
Included is a brand-new UHF whip antenna and MINT (new?) belt clip holster.
I'm also throwing in a well-used speaker/mic with a fingernail cut in the
PTT rubber and metal clip broken from the plug end. I held it on the radio
side and it works great. Radio reads/writes fine, gives the expected
hi-pitch self-check tone on powerup. NOT PARTING OUT. Cash taken only as a
last resort.

Should be a common and routine fix for a techy-type.

SO, whatcha got to trade (that mostly works...)

I'm insult-proof so mail away and when I see something that tickles my
fancy, I'll speak up. One item or 10...? Anything VHF HI or GMRS from
desktop scanners, radios, alert monitors, pagers, programming and test
equipment, etc, etc.... I'll consider items requiring a cash difference, you
get the idea. Just be specific so I can look it up.

thanks!
Randy



^~00001366:0000247106:019296:From: John Stone <jdfs@softhome.net>
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english,sci.lang
Subject: Re: damn
Date: 01 Feb 2003 19:31:56 -0600
Organization: The Antonio Margheriti Fan-fiction Writers Guild
Message-ID: <u4r7nzcvn.fsf.jdfs