1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 02 Apr 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 183       Contents: Re: Downloading patches via PC?  Re: Downloading patches via PC? 4 Re: Finding The Right Path For Your VMS Applications4 Re: Finding The Right Path For Your VMS Applications4 Re: Finding The Right Path For Your VMS Applications4 Re: Finding The Right Path For Your VMS Applications* Re: New HP CEO Announced - Mark Hurd (NCR) Re: OpenVMS 8.2 for a hobbyist% Re: poor  disk I/O performace on ds25   Re: ports 135, 445, 139 and 1433  Re: ports 135, 445, 139 and 1433& problem with router---NAT and caching?* Re: problem with router---NAT and caching?* Re: problem with router---NAT and caching?$ Re: Restartable file transfer server Re: Script Kiddie tarpit wanted  Re: Script Kiddie tarpit wanted  Re: Script Kiddie tarpit wanted  Re: Script Kiddie tarpit wanted  Re: Script Kiddie tarpit wanted F Re: Send data to an interactive VMS application from a Windows system?F Re: Send data to an interactive VMS application from a Windows system?F Re: Send data to an interactive VMS application from a Windows system?F Re: Send data to an interactive VMS application from a Windows system?F Re: Send data to an interactive VMS application from a Windows system? Re: test- please ignoe Re: test- please ignoe+ Re: There is certainly opportunity in chaos + Re: There is certainly opportunity in chaos + Re: There is certainly opportunity in chaos + Re: There is certainly opportunity in chaos + Re: There is certainly opportunity in chaos + Re: There is certainly opportunity in chaos + Re: There is certainly opportunity in chaos + Re: There is certainly opportunity in chaos + Re: There is certainly opportunity in chaos - Re: X-windows: changing cursor from and AST ? % Re: [TCPIP] remote login observations   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 14:44:17 -0800 , From: Ken Fairfield <my.full.name@intel.com>( Subject: Re: Downloading patches via PC?+ Message-ID: <d2kis1$c8s$1@news01.intel.com>     Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER wrote:a > In article <1112190349.762162.252070@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, tadamsmar@yahoo.com writes:  > B >>The OpenVMS systems that I manage will soon be isolated from the >>Internet.  >>G >>If I want a patch,  I will have to download it via a Windows 2000 PC, G >>and put it on a particular server that can be accessed by the OpenVMS 
 >>systems. >>? >>But I seem to remember having trouble with patch files that I > >>downloaded to a PC and then FTPed over to an OpenVMS system. >>( >>Does anyone recall problems with this? >  > L > If it is a .ZIPEXE or a .DCXEXE file a simple (binary) download is enough.H > (the VMS image activator is friendly and accepts also Stream files ;-)P > If it is a .PCSI$COMPRESSED file, you need to repair it on VMS after the xfer." > $ SET FILE/ATT=(RFM=FIX,LRL=512)  E     If the .PCSI$COMPRESSED file is transferred in binary/image, then E   it will already be RFM=FIX, LRL=512.  I don't recall the discussion I   from a few weeks back, but is it possible or likely that the compressed 4   .PSCI files have a different LRL, like 2048 or so?   	-Ken  --  6 I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me...  
 Ken Fairfield ! D1C Automation VMS System Support " who:   kenneth dot h dot fairfield where: intel dot com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 20:49:36 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>( Subject: Re: Downloading patches via PC?+ Message-ID: <424E0840.BF7BE4EB@comcast.net>    Ken Fairfield wrote: > " > Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER wrote:c > > In article <1112190349.762162.252070@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, tadamsmar@yahoo.com writes:  > > D > >>The OpenVMS systems that I manage will soon be isolated from the
 > >>Internet.  > >>I > >>If I want a patch,  I will have to download it via a Windows 2000 PC, I > >>and put it on a particular server that can be accessed by the OpenVMS  > >>systems. > >>A > >>But I seem to remember having trouble with patch files that I @ > >>downloaded to a PC and then FTPed over to an OpenVMS system. > >>* > >>Does anyone recall problems with this? > >  > > N > > If it is a .ZIPEXE or a .DCXEXE file a simple (binary) download is enough.J > > (the VMS image activator is friendly and accepts also Stream files ;-)R > > If it is a .PCSI$COMPRESSED file, you need to repair it on VMS after the xfer.$ > > $ SET FILE/ATT=(RFM=FIX,LRL=512) > G >     If the .PCSI$COMPRESSED file is transferred in binary/image, then G >   it will already be RFM=FIX, LRL=512.  I don't recall the discussion K >   from a few weeks back, but is it possible or likely that the compressed 6 >   .PSCI files have a different LRL, like 2048 or so?  ' IIRC, .PCSI files are normally FIX=8192    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Apr 2005 11:38:42 -0800 * From: "Alan Greig" <greigaln@netscape.net>= Subject: Re: Finding The Right Path For Your VMS Applications B Message-ID: <1112384322.342849.77370@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>   Brad Hamilton wrote:   > G > "...help over 400,000 legacy VMS & OpenVMS users worldwide migrate to    > UNIX and Windows."   and  --- D Paul Holland, Transoft's chief executive officer, said, "Transoft isG recognized as one of the leading providers of application migration and G modernization solutions. Our acquisition of the Accelr8 migration tools D allows us to bring our proven solutions and methodologies to the VMSD and OpenVMS user communities around the world. Over the next five toG ten years we believe this is going to be the largest active application < migration market with a potential value of over $8 billion." ---   G They were previously specialists in HP e3000 migration and seem to have E been ready to go when HP dumped that platform. They obviously believe < "VMS and OpenVMS (sic)" is going to be dumped by HP as well.   --  
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 15:23:32 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> = Subject: Re: Finding The Right Path For Your VMS Applications B Message-ID: <1112387004.c63d2ecf59ada3c18f8af269953a445c@teranews>   Alan Greig wrote:    I > They were previously specialists in HP e3000 migration and seem to have G > been ready to go when HP dumped that platform. They obviously believe > > "VMS and OpenVMS (sic)" is going to be dumped by HP as well.  G Until HP makes its true IA64 plans public, VMS won't be killed. As long I as HP pretends that IA64 has a strong future, it isn't about to kill VMS.   F The day that HP admits that IA64 is dead, then both HP-UX and VMS haveC to worry. If the ports would be too expensive or time consuming, it H might be simpler for HP to decide that it is to be a Linux/Windows shop. (With an NSK sidekick).   G If the VMS group is smart, they've already done a preliminary look into G porting to the 8086 and made very sure people such as Ann Livermore are E fully awware that it is feasable, how much it would cost and how much A time it would take. This way, HP's board would have a harder time ' justifying not porting VMS beyond IA64.    ------------------------------   Date: 1 Apr 2005 17:33:58 -0600 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) = Subject: Re: Finding The Right Path For Your VMS Applications 3 Message-ID: <ChvW4ZYQ$3$0@eisner.encompasserve.org>   i In article <It2dnZHO6P0R59DfRVn-iA@comcast.com>, Brad Hamilton <brMadAhaPmiSlton@coMmcAasPt.Snet> writes:  > Dave Froble wrote: >> Roy Omond wrote:  >>   >>> Transoft spouted garbage:  >>   >>   >>> *Sigh*.  >>   >>  ' >> Surely you're aware of today's date?  > E > Sorry, www.transoft.com looks legitimate enough to me.  There is a  E > "blinking" navigation link on the left-hand side of the page which   > offers to: > H > "...help over 400,000 legacy VMS & OpenVMS users worldwide migrate to  > UNIX and Windows." > % > Call them today; they can help.	:-)   " Have them start with the AST code.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 21:21:43 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>= Subject: Re: Finding The Right Path For Your VMS Applications + Message-ID: <424E0FC7.9E03A25B@comcast.net>    Transoft wrote:  > 5 > [snip] taking risks with IT systems is no longer an 	 > option.   G In truth, it never was an option. Trouble is, "point-and-click kiddies" D got so enamoured of their toys that they wanted work to be just likeH play. So, we handed BG and the hackers/crackers/script-kiddies corporate America on a silver platter.  C A former manager of mine (CEO of the company, actually) once made a F statement I found puzzling at the time. He said (out of context), "(ITF people) get enamoured with (their systems)". Dunno if he's still amongG us (we're talking 20 years ago or so), but perhaps he'll never know how 0 true his words really were, and still are today.   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 19:23:40 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> 3 Subject: Re: New HP CEO Announced - Mark Hurd (NCR) ( Message-ID: <opsok41qsxzgicya@hyrrokkin>  G On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 11:18:54 -0500, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>    wrote:  K > That's why I said that he should be challenged to find out the real VMS   K > numbers.  I'm figuring that if a CEO tells his people that he wants the   G > numbers to show how VMS is doing without anything else added in, it   K > would take a bold employee to try to give him anything else.  He'd have   + > to be willing to put his job on the line.  > E for each of the last two years approx $4B in revenue and $860M gross.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 13:58:20 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> ' Subject: Re: OpenVMS 8.2 for a hobbyist B Message-ID: <1112381897.bc56180715e2738650e5f06dd696f5aa@teranews>   prep@prep.synonet.com wrote:   > >   Houston, Texas! > That's in Queensland, right? :)   . No, Miami Beach is in Queensland. (Gold Coast)   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 21:05:39 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>. Subject: Re: poor  disk I/O performace on ds25* Message-ID: <424E0C03.659E4D7@comcast.net>   Nitendra wrote:  >  > I am running ovms 7.3.2    V7.3-2   > on alphaserver DS25(dual CPU)  > C > If I try to do ftp (using 500MB single file)between two DS25 over  > gigabit link back to back.G > I get performance close to 33Mbps(which is even less than what we get  > normally on 100Mbps network). 2 > I also set MTU to 9000, but no change is result. >  > to debug the problem...  > B > I tried to copy same file on one DS25 syetm from one disk(dkb0:)* > to another disk on same system (dkb100:)4 > and the data rate was close to 10MBps(80Mbits/sec) > 9 > can anybody help me how to improve disk i/o performace.  > E > because due to poor disk I/O I am not getting perofmance on gigabit 
 > network. > ) > if anybody has solution pls let me know   ( Are you getting errors on your SCSI bus?   Check terminations?   ' Verify bus speeds and interface speeds?   : Some stuff to look at. May or may not encompass the issue.   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  * Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 20:49:25 +0000 (UTC)7 From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) ) Subject: Re: ports 135, 445, 139 and 1433 ( Message-ID: <d2kc4l$68n$2@pcls4.std.com>  R helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes:  I >In article <d2fdc3$kpk$1@pcls4.std.com>, moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com  >(Michael Moroney) writes:    I >> I personally have a different approach - about two years ago I adapted G >> a 'tarpit' program called 'LaBrea' (intended for Unix/Linux) to VMS. G >> It is a deliberately "broken" TCP/IP stack which tries to tie up any G >> incoming connects to it.  (The idea was to taunt hackers, but mostly ! >> it just ties up worms/viruses)  >>  J >> I plugged an old DE435 adapter in my system, and ran this tarpit on it,K >> and set up the NAT router to forward all incoming connections other than J >> the ones I actually want to the tarpit's IP address.  (the other "real"C >> net adapter runs the standard TCP/IP stack and has a separate IP F >> address, the NAT router forwards incoming connects that I _do_ want >> (such as HTTP) to it. >>  H >> It's pretty primitive and really isn't that useful since most of what4 >> it catches are just worms and not actual hackers.  H >Do you have a portable (to VMS), workable tarpit program?  I have a VMSB >machine with (at the moment) NO incoming connections.  I've oftenI >thought about distributing several valid email addresses for it over the A >internet, then run a tarpit to tie up SMTP connections, to annoy  >spammers.    H Yes - as I said I wrote it for VMS.  Send email (remove the "spaamtrap")I if you want to find out more.  You need a network adapter unused by TCPIP E (TCPIP works fine on another adapter, other protocols should work OK  F sharing the adapter) and it needs its own IP address.  I use it behindJ a NAT router routing "wanted" traffic to the real IP address used by TCPIPG and "everything else" to the tarpit. But it's pretty primitive.  It was G intended to try to tie up script kiddies at the IP level but in reality H just "entertains" worms and viruses for the most part.  It was mostly anG exercise at learning TCPIP and adapting existing code (LaBrea).  Unlike ) LaBrea, it uses only a single IP address.  --   -Mike    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 08:29:03 +0200 & From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@decus.ch>) Subject: Re: ports 135, 445, 139 and 1433 , Message-ID: <3b6sdeF6fi4ieU1@individual.net>  G Oh Philip, since JF mentioned that the Linksys is the same as a Zyxel,  ! you should block port 139 anyway.   E See http://www.studerus.ch/files/knowledgebase/f_netb.htm for filter   details.   ------------------------------  * Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 23:33:14 +0000 (UTC)P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)/ Subject: problem with router---NAT and caching? $ Message-ID: <d2klnq$akl$1@online.de>  F For a long time, I've had a DSL router forward incoming requests to a G particular internal address (the cluster alias if it is a cluster, the  H address of a particular machine if that is what is behind the router).  C This works OK.  I'm testing out some hardware, so I set up another  H machine with another IP address and told the router to forward incoming  connections to that.  Works OK.   F I then go back to the original setup.  EVERYTHING works OK, as it did A before, EXCEPT incoming stuff over port 6000 (remote application  D displaying locally).  It's not a security problem; the only thing I G changed---and changed back---was the address which the router forwards  	 stuff to.   B I've tried everything I can think of---changing the address on theA original machine to that of the new machine (where the displaying I worked), tried remote applications at a variety of remote nodes.  In all  F cases, EVERYTHING works fine---incoming and outgoing connections over A any port---EXCEPT that remote applications can't display locally.   G I then went back to the new machine.  Everything works fine, including  * remote applications which display locally.  I I'm thinking that the router doesn't really forward incoming connections  I to an internal IP address, but rather to a certain MAC address.  Thus, I  E could give it a new MAC address with a new IP address and that would  H work, but it got confused when I tried to go back.  OK, so I turned off G the router for half an hour and then tried again, hoping that any such  G cached information (this is speculation) would disappear.  The problem   remains.  ; The error message I get at the remote node is the standard    &    X Toolkit Error: Can't Open display(    %DWT-F-NOMSG, Message number 03AB8204  H Years ago, I had a similar problem---everything except port 6000 worked C OK---with another router.  After a while it went away, but I never  A understood why.  Since then, I haven't noticed the problem again.   G Is there something special about port 6000 with respect to NAT which I  B am not taking into account?  If I forward all incoming stuff to a H particular internal address, and incoming and outgoing connections over G other ports work, it is a bit strange that only port 6000 doesn't work.    ------------------------------  * Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 23:47:51 +0000 (UTC)P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)3 Subject: Re: problem with router---NAT and caching? $ Message-ID: <d2kmj7$au8$1@online.de>  D In article <d2klnq$akl$1@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de3 (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes:    H > For a long time, I've had a DSL router forward incoming requests to a I > particular internal address (the cluster alias if it is a cluster, the  J > address of a particular machine if that is what is behind the router).  E > This works OK.  I'm testing out some hardware, so I set up another  J > machine with another IP address and told the router to forward incoming ! > connections to that.  Works OK.  > H > I then go back to the original setup.  EVERYTHING works OK, as it did C > before, EXCEPT incoming stuff over port 6000 (remote application  F > displaying locally).  It's not a security problem; the only thing I I > changed---and changed back---was the address which the router forwards   > stuff to.   7 OK, it's working again now, but I don't understand why.   F I had changed the IP address on the original machine, because the new C machine originally had the same IP address.  I changed the latter,  : though, before redirecting the incoming connections to it.  D Fortunately, I remembered what the original address of the original D machine was.  I changed it back to that, told the router to forward ) stuff to it, and low and behold it works.   C I suppose somewhere within the router there is a mapping between IP G address and MAC address.  If I change the IP address, then presumably I G can't use another IP address with a given MAC address (nor perhaps vice H versa), at least for a while.  Unfortunately, the router doesn't seem toF have an option to clear the cache or whatever.  (It's a rebadged ZyxelA combination router/switch which also provides PPPoE connectivity,  PAP/CHAP authentication etc.    F Maybe this is the cause of the similar (actually identical) problem I E had with another router (a LINKSYS) a couple of years ago.  Still, I  F don't understand why it affects only port 6000 and not other incoming E connections.  I don't see what is strange about port 6000.  OK, most  C incoming connections (I'm talking about connections initiated from  I outside, not "return traffic" associated with an outgoing connection) go  H to ports < 1023, but not all (for example, some WWW servers run on port E 8000 or whatever---this was never a problem when I had the port 6000  	 problem).   G This is only marginally VMS related, in that perhaps other people have  G VMS machines behind NAT routers---or perhaps TCPIP on VMS (or TCPIP in  I general) does some caching which causes the problem here.  Regardless of  E what the problem is, though, I am really puzzled as to why only port   6000 is affected.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 19:35:42 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 3 Subject: Re: problem with router---NAT and caching? B Message-ID: <1112402124.167edc32092d62735e61684a0472d1a9@teranews>  / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:   E > I suppose somewhere within the router there is a mapping between IP  > address and MAC address.    B And in your vax too. It is called the ARP table. (TCPIP SHOW ARP).  F When a node first needs to talk to another node in the same IP subnet,E it sends a broadcast "would IP 10.1.2.3 please stand up ?".  Then, IP H 10.1.2.3 responds to the sender with "I am 10.1.2.3" and the sender thenH knows the ethernert address associated with node 10.1.2.3. This entry inG the ARP table lasts for a certain amount of time. During this time, the E sender need not do any ARP requests since the association between MAC  and IP is still valid.    / > If I change the IP address, then presumably I I > can't use another IP address with a given MAC address (nor perhaps vice   > versa), at least for a while.   - You can invalidate an ARP entry or ARP table.    On Zyxel, try:  . ip arp flush  from the command line interface.    C Go to the Zyxel web site and download the technical manuals for the @ Prestige 314 (I assume you have a Netgear 314  loaded with Zyxel software ?)   ? Not all commands work. But there are many more comands then are  available in the on-line HELP.    C The web site also has documents on how to do tracing of the router,  including PPPoE thing tracing.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 20:56:37 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>- Subject: Re: Restartable file transfer server + Message-ID: <424E09E4.3C3DFCF1@comcast.net>    Phil wrote:  > H > I wish. We've already got easily enough internet bandwidth - but it isG > policy to not rely on the internet for production operations. I'm not % > going to be able get that changed:(   C Hhmmm... Ain't that a bitch... Shouldn't be too hard to demonstrate = cost-justification or reliability (leased line vs. internet).   B Is this reg'lated by a gum-mint somewheres? ...or is this a "black( helicopters" type of security situation?   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 14:23:49 -0800% From: DeanW <dean.woodward@gmail.com> ( Subject: Re: Script Kiddie tarpit wanted7 Message-ID: <3f119ada05040114232bec9296@mail.gmail.com>   I On Mar 31, 2005 10:45 AM, Keith A. Lewis <klewis@lumina.mitre.org> wrote:  > Alan Frisbie <Usenet02_REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com> writes in article <1112287428.95610@smirk> dated Thu, 31 Mar 2005 08:45:45 -0800:< > >Along the same line, is there any way I can find out what; > >username/password combinations these kiddies are trying? / > >Accounting doesn't seem to provide anything.  >  > Try this:   > $ anal/aud/event=breakin /full  " I've complained about this before:B Security alarm (SECURITY) and security audit (SECURITY) on BANDIT, system id: 1027 3 Auditable event:          Network breakin detection 1 Event time:                4-JAN-2005 14:18:21.36 " PID:                      0001E2AB) Process name:             TCPIP$SS_BG3796 # Username:                 TCPIP$SSH   Password:                 <none>6 Remote node fullname:     SSH_PASSWORD:211.184.226.193& Remote username:          SSH_D3B8E2C1G Status:                   %LOGIN-F-NOTVALID, user authorization failure    ------------------------------   Date: 1 Apr 2005 21:58:48 GMT  From: healyzh@aracnet.com ( Subject: Re: Script Kiddie tarpit wanted, Message-ID: <d2kg6o02h44@enews4.newsguy.com>  5 Alan Frisbie <Usenet02_REMOVE@flying-disk.com> wrote: 9 > I am thinking about a program that would accept typical 7 > Unix/Linux commands and give responses that will look > > like it worked, at least to a script kiddie.  An alternative> > would be something completely alien to them, like VMS.   :-)  B VMS is way to normal, try dumping them into something like ITS :^)  < > Of course, there is always the option of simply giving him; > a regular non-priv VMS user account, with a login message < > about using the HELP command and links to the online docs.; > We might wind up with another VMS convert that way.   :-)   , Not really the kind of VMS converts we need.   	Zane    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 17:31:06 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> ( Subject: Re: Script Kiddie tarpit wantedB Message-ID: <1112394653.d2452bbf3c5e2730c34206893d607896@teranews>  > Give the account a really scaled down version of DCLTABLES.EXE  
 then, define:   1 rm and DEL to point to delete.com which contains:   ? $read/prompt="Are you sure you wish to erase the system disk ?"  sys$input temp $type dellog.txtD $write sys$output "SYSTEM-F-NOOS, No operating system files found on system disk, system crashing"  $logout     E where dellog.txt contains a directory listing with file sizes and the  word "deleted" with each file.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 18:14:11 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> ( Subject: Re: Script Kiddie tarpit wanted0 Message-ID: <114rkraeltjkb87@corp.supernews.com>   Paul Sture wrote:  > Dave Froble wrote: >  >> Paul Sture wrote: >> >>> Alan Frisbie wrote:  >>> B >>>> Since I like to have remote Internet access to my VMS system,2 >>>> I have my firewall forward SSH packets to it. >>>>I >>> Well, in the couple or so years I had ssh open (and routed to my VMS  2 >>> system at home) there was only one ssh attack. >>> H >>> IIRC I found the evidence in operator.log, the accounting file, and ) >>> maybe the audit log (not all 3 IIRC).  >>> F >>> This was a deliberate one-off attack though, as I'd clearly upset F >>> someone who was offering what I considered to be a scam, and he'd 5 >>> picked up my ip address from his web server logs.  >>>  >>> Be careful folks...  >> >> >>) >> Succesful attack, or attempted attack?  >  > F > Definitely only an attempt. Whoever it was went no further than the 1 > login prompt. No username or password attempts.  > H > The cheeky swine then came back to me and claimed I definitely hadn't J > read his legal bit (obvious, because at that point he hadn't yet put it J > up on his website). Yes, he went through his logs (why he knew I hadn't 4 > read the legal bit) to try and find out who I was. > K > Well, he got banned from posting on the website where I found his offer,  K > but I took great satisfaction that I'd kept him up until beyond midnight  = > writing the legally required bit, and still got him banned.  > G > Yes, I had a bit of private fun there, but in the end it was someone   > trying to waste my time.  = It's called 'community service'.  We all should do some.  :-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 08:39:39 +0200 & From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@decus.ch>( Subject: Re: Script Kiddie tarpit wanted, Message-ID: <3b6t1aF6j19cvU1@individual.net>   Dave Froble wrote:   > Paul Sture wrote:  >  >> Dave Froble wrote:  >> >>> Paul Sture wrote:  >>>  >>>> Alan Frisbie wrote: >>>>C >>>>> Since I like to have remote Internet access to my VMS system, 3 >>>>> I have my firewall forward SSH packets to it.  >>>>> J >>>> Well, in the couple or so years I had ssh open (and routed to my VMS 3 >>>> system at home) there was only one ssh attack.  >>>>I >>>> IIRC I found the evidence in operator.log, the accounting file, and  * >>>> maybe the audit log (not all 3 IIRC). >>>>G >>>> This was a deliberate one-off attack though, as I'd clearly upset  G >>>> someone who was offering what I considered to be a scam, and he'd  6 >>>> picked up my ip address from his web server logs. >>>> >>>> Be careful folks... >>>  >>>  >>>  >>> * >>> Succesful attack, or attempted attack? >> >> >>G >> Definitely only an attempt. Whoever it was went no further than the  2 >> login prompt. No username or password attempts. >>I >> The cheeky swine then came back to me and claimed I definitely hadn't  H >> read his legal bit (obvious, because at that point he hadn't yet put G >> it up on his website). Yes, he went through his logs (why he knew I  < >> hadn't read the legal bit) to try and find out who I was. >>E >> Well, he got banned from posting on the website where I found his  J >> offer, but I took great satisfaction that I'd kept him up until beyond G >> midnight writing the legally required bit, and still got him banned.  >>H >> Yes, I had a bit of private fun there, but in the end it was someone  >> trying to waste my time.  >  > ? > It's called 'community service'.  We all should do some.  :-)   @ Well put Dave, you are correct. If I saved just one person (and 6 hopefully more) from the scam, it was not wasted time.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 14:08:27 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> O Subject: Re: Send data to an interactive VMS application from a Windows system? B Message-ID: <1112382505.7d21776737e5c48437aafd3532f619a1@teranews>  F This may not answer your query, but perhaps could spark some new idea.  F With ALL-IN-1 (also FMS based), one has the ability to read keystrokes* from an alternate source (usually a file).  D I have a small application on a PSION pda which transfers data to an@ ALL-IN-1 application by dumping data to the serial port, and theF ALL-IN-1 application reading from the serial port (but displaying on a
 VT terminal).   @ The PSION app formats the data and separates fields with the tabG character and just sends it out the serial port (the neat thing is that M I can see it happen on the VT terminal which echoes the received characters).   H I'd have to lookup the FMS documentation to fidn out what trick ALL-IN-1D uses to fed keystrokes to FMS from a source other than the terminal.    G The PSION blindly sends the data and does not get anything back. (I use B the terminal to verify data before confirm entry into the system).   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 20:28:05 -0000 1 From: wspencer@ap.dontspamme.org (Warren Spencer) O Subject: Re: Send data to an interactive VMS application from a Windows system? 1 Message-ID: <962B9917Fwspenceraporg@216.168.3.30>   5 mark-news@PLEASE.NOSPAM.gags-r-us.org (Abe) wrote in  - <054p41djd1tlh9ku7j3p6tcuga4pa0t4qj@4ax.com>:   D >We have an old COBOL & FMS application that we'd like to "send dataC >to" from a Windows system.  We don't want to alter the COBOL code. C >We'd like to be able to write a Windows program (maybe in VB) that D >looks like an interactive user to the VMS system and sends data and@ >the correct "keystrokes" to fool the COBOL/FMS application into >processing the data.  > F >Doesn't have to be a VB based solution.  Could be something scripted. >  >Any product suggestions?  > 6 >** Due to SPAM I no longer receive email responses to( >** newsgroup postings, so don't bother.  J Have you worked through all the funky things your OpenVMS app may do when K things go wrong? If, for instance, your app throws up an error message and  J asks whether to continue under certain conditions, your pc mechanism will I have to recognize that and handle it correctly.  If there's 17 different  K things that OpenVMS app may do, you may have to handle them - and possibly  K many combinations of those.  A simple macro-key replayer will probably not   do the job in this case.  M Is this a one-time transfer of data, or a regular data-entry sort of thing?   J How critical is the data?  You may wish to use more robust methods if the ; criticality is high, and/or the need to do this is ongoing.    ws   --   Warren Spencer Senior Software Engineer The Associated Press  ) - My other computer is YOUR Windows box -    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 00:25:33 GMT 1 From: Abe <mark-news@PLEASE.NOSPAM.gags-r-us.org> O Subject: Re: Send data to an interactive VMS application from a Windows system?08 Message-ID: <28pr41tqq0lk32p2e657qk4n91kad9haks@4ax.com>  E On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 11:34:10 -0500, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>h wrote:   >Abe wrote:lF >> We have an old COBOL & FMS application that we'd like to "send dataE >> to" from a Windows system.  We don't want to alter the COBOL code.hE >> We'd like to be able to write a Windows program (maybe in VB) that F >> looks like an interactive user to the VMS system and sends data andB >> the correct "keystrokes" to fool the COBOL/FMS application into >> processing the data.  >> aH >> Doesn't have to be a VB based solution.  Could be something scripted. >> A >> Any product suggestions?l >> e8 >> ** Due to SPAM I no longer receive email responses to* >> ** newsgroup postings, so don't bother. >a+ >I'm not sure if I understand the question.  >eH >Using FMS indicates that the program would use an interactive terminal.  E Yes today someone uses an interactive terminal to enter data into thet FMS application.  F Someday in the future the data will arrive electronically to a WindowsE manufacturing system.  The VMS system still needs to be updated as itsF will be in service a few more years before it's replaced.  The idea isC to get the data to the VMS system as simply as possible, which herecE means without writing or changing code on the VMS system if possible.h  A We've considered moving the data (eg FTP or something) to the VMSaD system but we'd still need to write something to pull the data apartE and update numerous RMS files.  To do it correctly someone would haveyF to study the COBOL and replicate it's logic, which we'd like to avoid.  D >If you want to use a PC instead of a terminal, just run a terminal  >emulator on the PC. >TF >If you're trying to run the program without an interactive user, I'd @ >think it would be easier to do something from VMS.  Why the PC? >  >Dave     5 ** Due to SPAM I no longer receive email responses toD' ** newsgroup postings, so don't bother.d   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 00:32:07 GMTa1 From: Abe <mark-news@PLEASE.NOSPAM.gags-r-us.org>gO Subject: Re: Send data to an interactive VMS application from a Windows system? 8 Message-ID: <hmpr411k52di05dqbip2q1gh8eln9158j7@4ax.com>  F On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 20:28:05 -0000, wspencer@ap.dontspamme.org (Warren Spencer) wrote:l  6 >mark-news@PLEASE.NOSPAM.gags-r-us.org (Abe) wrote in . ><054p41djd1tlh9ku7j3p6tcuga4pa0t4qj@4ax.com>: >pE >>We have an old COBOL & FMS application that we'd like to "send dataVD >>to" from a Windows system.  We don't want to alter the COBOL code.D >>We'd like to be able to write a Windows program (maybe in VB) thatE >>looks like an interactive user to the VMS system and sends data andsA >>the correct "keystrokes" to fool the COBOL/FMS application intoV >>processing the data. >>G >>Doesn't have to be a VB based solution.  Could be something scripted.r >> >>Any product suggestions? >>7 >>** Due to SPAM I no longer receive email responses tos) >>** newsgroup postings, so don't bother.s >lK >Have you worked through all the funky things your OpenVMS app may do when 4L >things go wrong? If, for instance, your app throws up an error message and K >asks whether to continue under certain conditions, your pc mechanism will hJ >have to recognize that and handle it correctly.  If there's 17 different L >things that OpenVMS app may do, you may have to handle them - and possibly L >many combinations of those.  A simple macro-key replayer will probably not  >do the job in this case.  >rN >Is this a one-time transfer of data, or a regular data-entry sort of thing?  K >How critical is the data?  You may wish to use more robust methods if the  < >criticality is high, and/or the need to do this is ongoing. >r >wse  C Yeah, that's why I'm not all that thrilled with the WRQ/Relfections  scripting kind of solution.   D What would work is a VB app that does some kind of telnet to the VMSA box, logs in, sends the data with the appropriate keystrokes, andhD tests for what it expects as a final "success" response.  If the appD doesn't see "success" it can let someone know and queue the data for later.  D I don't know much about DTM but it's sort of the same idea - feed an: interactive application some data and look for a response.    5 ** Due to SPAM I no longer receive email responses toi' ** newsgroup postings, so don't bother.e   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 01:55:29 GMTRL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing)O Subject: Re: Send data to an interactive VMS application from a Windows system?t6 Message-ID: <00A41A6C.7453AFF4@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  l In article <hmpr411k52di05dqbip2q1gh8eln9158j7@4ax.com>, Abe <mark-news@PLEASE.NOSPAM.gags-r-us.org> writes:G >On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 20:28:05 -0000, wspencer@ap.dontspamme.org (Warrenu >Spencer) wrote: >w7 >>mark-news@PLEASE.NOSPAM.gags-r-us.org (Abe) wrote in M/ >><054p41djd1tlh9ku7j3p6tcuga4pa0t4qj@4ax.com>:  >>F >>>We have an old COBOL & FMS application that we'd like to "send dataE >>>to" from a Windows system.  We don't want to alter the COBOL code.-E >>>We'd like to be able to write a Windows program (maybe in VB) thatiF >>>looks like an interactive user to the VMS system and sends data andB >>>the correct "keystrokes" to fool the COBOL/FMS application into >>>processing the data.o >>>tH >>>Doesn't have to be a VB based solution.  Could be something scripted. >>>t >>>Any product suggestions?  >>> 8 >>>** Due to SPAM I no longer receive email responses to* >>>** newsgroup postings, so don't bother. >>L >>Have you worked through all the funky things your OpenVMS app may do when M >>things go wrong? If, for instance, your app throws up an error message and  L >>asks whether to continue under certain conditions, your pc mechanism will K >>have to recognize that and handle it correctly.  If there's 17 different tM >>things that OpenVMS app may do, you may have to handle them - and possibly  M >>many combinations of those.  A simple macro-key replayer will probably not   >>do the job in this case. >>O >>Is this a one-time transfer of data, or a regular data-entry sort of thing?  dL >>How critical is the data?  You may wish to use more robust methods if the = >>criticality is high, and/or the need to do this is ongoing.. >> >>ws >vD >Yeah, that's why I'm not all that thrilled with the WRQ/Relfections >scripting kind of solution. >eE >What would work is a VB app that does some kind of telnet to the VMSwB >box, logs in, sends the data with the appropriate keystrokes, andE >tests for what it expects as a final "success" response.  If the app E >doesn't see "success" it can let someone know and queue the data fori >later.s >sE >I don't know much about DTM but it's sort of the same idea - feed ant; >interactive application some data and look for a response.     M I haven't done this myself, but I attended a presentation by John Apps (greatfK name!) where he mentioned using Ericsson PowerTerm to act as the interface rN between data coming in via web forms and a VT-type application which continuedK in use unmodified.  Apparently PowerTerm has enough screen-scraper support oN that it's possible to really map seamlessly; I have no information on how much work you have to do to do it.u   -- Alan    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 20:52:38 -0600a2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> Subject: Re: test- please ignoe-+ Message-ID: <424E08F6.CD7791C8@comcast.net>i   John Vottero wrote:r > A > "David J Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote in messagea' > news:424CB5E2.BD741B0F@comcast.net...e
 > > [snip]5 > > Well, that's cool, but here's what I really need:m > >a > > $ SYNC/ENTRY=(45,62,83,99) > >P > H > Add /RETAIN=UNTIL=delta-time to the SUBMITS and then just do the SYNCs > sequentially.eK > If you don't care about the final status of the jobs you're syncing with,a" > you don't even need the /RETAIN.  D Non capisco. SYNC has to do with when a job completes execution, not< when the entry is deleted from the queue by whatever means.    See HELP SYNCHRONIZE.    -- V David J Dachtera dba DJE Systemse http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/i   Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 04:04:11 GMTn% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>  Subject: Re: test- please ignoer= Message-ID: <%Qo3e.14000$ZB6.4960@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com>e  @ "David J Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote in message % news:424E08F6.CD7791C8@comcast.net...r > John Vottero wrote:a >>B >> "David J Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote in message( >> news:424CB5E2.BD741B0F@comcast.net... >> > [snip]z6 >> > Well, that's cool, but here's what I really need: >> > >> > $ SYNC/ENTRY=(45,62,83,99)D >> > >>I >> Add /RETAIN=UNTIL=delta-time to the SUBMITS and then just do the SYNCsv >> sequentially.L >> If you don't care about the final status of the jobs you're syncing with,# >> you don't even need the /RETAIN.  >fF > Non capisco. SYNC has to do with when a job completes execution, not= > when the entry is deleted from the queue by whatever means.y >o > See HELP SYNCHRONIZE.l  K I know what SYNCHRONIZE does.  You add the /RETAIN=UNTIL=deltatime so that fG the job is still in the queue even if it has already completed.  Then, a instead of:p   $ SYNC/ENTRY=(45,62,83,99)   You do:"   $ SYNC/ENTRY=45  $ SYNC/ENTRY=62H $ SYNC/ENTRY=83  $ SYNC/ENTRY=99   M The first SYNC waits until entry 45 completes.  When entry 45 completes, the aJ second SYNC executes, if entry 62 is already complete, the SYNC completes J immediately.    When you make it through all four of those SYNC commands, % you know that all 4 entries are done.t  L Make the deltatime on the /RETAIN longer than the longest expected run time  of any of the entries.  L Note that this works with the new (V5.5) queue manager but not with the old K queue manager.   It's open to debate as to which of the queue manager does n SYNC correctly.s   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 14:12:46 -05000- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>m4 Subject: Re: There is certainly opportunity in chaosB Message-ID: <1112382762.8ba5d0f7520136f157a5ae40439e0691@teranews>   John Vottero wrote: L > that he's working with.  HP calls and wants him to leave NCR and come saveL > HP.  Mr. Hurd doesn't know if the problem was Carly or the BOD, he doesn'tM > know what the real problems are at HP.    He needs some guarantees to leave> > NCR.    H Hurd would have gone through the books starting in early March before he would have accepted the job.     He knew what he was up to.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 15:46:39 -0500 ( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net>4 Subject: Re: There is certainly opportunity in chaos= Message-ID: <0fqdnZDEdsmsLtDfRVn-pA@metrocastcablevision.com>    John Vottero wrote: 8 > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message 9 > news:4I-dncIoP5MrWtHfRVn-qA@metrocastcablevision.com...e >  >>JF Mezei wrote:s >>G >>>The problem with compensation policies is that the individual has an < >>>incentive to be fired as opposed to leaving on their own. >>K >>That's just *one* problem with them.  Another comparable one is the lack nL >>of incentive to perform.  There is no earthly reason to pay even a CEO of K >>the largest company any more than a mid-range-6-figure salary or sign-on  E >>bonus:  everything beyond that (and for the largest companies it's oI >>entirely reasonable for there to be quite a lot beyond that) should be  @ >>*very* closely tied to performance, with well-defined metrics. >> >  > @ > The problem with that is it encourages a short term mentality.  ? Only if the metrics place undue value on that.  And as I noted oG elsewhere, the metrics themselves allow the stockholders to assess the e= BoD in such areas - thus creating the kind of chain of clear aF responsibility which should exist (if the stockholders don't hold the A BoD accountable for defining and enforcing the CEO's performance 3* metrics, then they deserve what they get).   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 01:52:48 GMTe% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>t4 Subject: Re: There is certainly opportunity in chaos> Message-ID: <QVm3e.20140$Eh4.14157@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com>  ; "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message a< news:1112382762.8ba5d0f7520136f157a5ae40439e0691@teranews... > John Vottero wrote:cI >> that he's working with.  HP calls and wants him to leave NCR and come   >> savekF >> HP.  Mr. Hurd doesn't know if the problem was Carly or the BOD, he 
 >> doesn'tI >> know what the real problems are at HP.    He needs some guarantees to o >> leave >> NCR.  >o >gJ > Hurd would have gone through the books starting in early March before he > would have accepted the job. >a > He knew what he was up to.  I He knows nothing about the people and personalities involved, that's the n
 hard part.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 02:00:06 GMTr% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>h4 Subject: Re: There is certainly opportunity in chaos= Message-ID: <G0n3e.20142$Sh4.3699@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com>?  6 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message 7 news:0fqdnZDEdsmsLtDfRVn-pA@metrocastcablevision.com...e > John Vottero wrote:e9 >> "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message S: >> news:4I-dncIoP5MrWtHfRVn-qA@metrocastcablevision.com... >> >>>JF Mezei wrote: >>>iH >>>>The problem with compensation policies is that the individual has an= >>>>incentive to be fired as opposed to leaving on their own.t >>>tL >>>That's just *one* problem with them.  Another comparable one is the lack M >>>of incentive to perform.  There is no earthly reason to pay even a CEO of aL >>>the largest company any more than a mid-range-6-figure salary or sign-on F >>>bonus:  everything beyond that (and for the largest companies it's J >>>entirely reasonable for there to be quite a lot beyond that) should be A >>>*very* closely tied to performance, with well-defined metrics.c >>>L >> >>A >> The problem with that is it encourages a short term mentality.  >-L > Only if the metrics place undue value on that.  And as I noted elsewhere, J > the metrics themselves allow the stockholders to assess the BoD in such H > areas - thus creating the kind of chain of clear responsibility which G > should exist (if the stockholders don't hold the BoD accountable for 3J > defining and enforcing the CEO's performance metrics, then they deserve  > what they get).   D It's easier said than done.  Give us some examples of these metrics.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 21:46:55 -0500H( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net>4 Subject: Re: There is certainly opportunity in chaos= Message-ID: <w86dnVzgyfY8mtPfRVn-tQ@metrocastcablevision.com>    John Vottero wrote:l8 > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message 9 > news:0fqdnZDEdsmsLtDfRVn-pA@metrocastcablevision.com...b >  >>John Vottero wrote:w >>9 >>>"Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message  : >>>news:4I-dncIoP5MrWtHfRVn-qA@metrocastcablevision.com... >>>c >>>  >>>>JF Mezei wrote:. >>>> >>>>I >>>>>The problem with compensation policies is that the individual has an > >>>>>incentive to be fired as opposed to leaving on their own. >>>>M >>>>That's just *one* problem with them.  Another comparable one is the lack nN >>>>of incentive to perform.  There is no earthly reason to pay even a CEO of M >>>>the largest company any more than a mid-range-6-figure salary or sign-on eG >>>>bonus:  everything beyond that (and for the largest companies it's  K >>>>entirely reasonable for there to be quite a lot beyond that) should be  B >>>>*very* closely tied to performance, with well-defined metrics. >>>> >>>p >>>tA >>>The problem with that is it encourages a short term mentality.. >>L >>Only if the metrics place undue value on that.  And as I noted elsewhere, J >>the metrics themselves allow the stockholders to assess the BoD in such H >>areas - thus creating the kind of chain of clear responsibility which G >>should exist (if the stockholders don't hold the BoD accountable for  J >>defining and enforcing the CEO's performance metrics, then they deserve  >>what they get).  >  >  > It's easier said than done.a  D Horseshit.  If the BoD isn't up to that task, they aren't fit to be I directors - because directing and evaluating the corporate leadership is h/ precisely what their primary responsibility is.s  * >  Give us some examples of these metrics.  D Short-term profit.  Longer-term investment.  Customer satisfaction. ? Employee satisfaction.  Quality of his/her direct reports (and I; effectiveness in addressing the problem if that quality is pI unacceptable).  Health of each corporate segment (and, again, ability to o* identify and act to correct any problems).  H Coherence of vision, ability to inspire and communicate (these last are : of course harder to put numbers on, but still assessable).  C I'm sure someone with more executive experience could come up with -B additional specific areas worthy of close attention.  But Carly's F manifest and continuing deficiencies in so many of those I've already I listed should have provided years of red flags accompanied by sirens and $" tire squeals to any competent BoD.   - bill   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 21:51:41 -0500# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>g4 Subject: Re: There is certainly opportunity in chaos, Message-ID: <eNmdnQdC5MRfldPfRVn-qA@igs.net>   Bill Todd wrote: > John Vottero wrote:r8 >> "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message: >> news:4I-dncIoP5MrWtHfRVn-qA@metrocastcablevision.com... >> >>> JF Mezei wrote:  >>>nF >>>> The problem with compensation policies is that the individual hasA >>>> an incentive to be fired as opposed to leaving on their own.l >>>pG >>> That's just *one* problem with them.  Another comparable one is thepD >>> lack of incentive to perform.  There is no earthly reason to pay5 >>> even a CEO of the largest company any more than aeG >>> mid-range-6-figure salary or sign-on bonus:  everything beyond that E >>> (and for the largest companies it's entirely reasonable for therehC >>> to be quite a lot beyond that) should be *very* closely tied ton+ >>> performance, with well-defined metrics.l >>>, >> >>A >> The problem with that is it encourages a short term mentality.l >I@ > Only if the metrics place undue value on that.  And as I notedH > elsewhere, the metrics themselves allow the stockholders to assess the> > BoD in such areas - thus creating the kind of chain of clearG > responsibility which should exist (if the stockholders don't hold thegB > BoD accountable for defining and enforcing the CEO's performance, > metrics, then they deserve what they get).    J Don't forget that the BoD and officers of the company are legally requiredL to do what is in the financial best interests of the shareholders -- not the
 customers.  I That's why the possibility at this juncture of HP becoming just a printeraC and ink company is very real. The BoD didn't see the 'firing on all H cylinders' that carly(tm) promised the Compaq takeover would provide and I'll bet they are spooked.     --F OpenVMS - The never advertised operating system with the dwindling ISV base.u   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 21:52:50 -0500# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>e4 Subject: Re: There is certainly opportunity in chaos, Message-ID: <_4ydnVOSHvWalNPfRVn-iQ@igs.net>   John Vottero wrote:  >pC > They're all sure they could do the job.  Hell, most of the people 3 > that hang our here think they could be CEO of HP!a    I'n my case.....I know.  :-) :-)   --F OpenVMS - The never advertised operating system with the dwindling ISV base.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 22:22:16 -0500t( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net>4 Subject: Re: There is certainly opportunity in chaos= Message-ID: <b-2dnRzgjMN1ktPfRVn-1A@metrocastcablevision.com>    John Smith wrote:e > Bill Todd wrote: >  >>John Vottero wrote:m   ...o  A >>>The problem with that is it encourages a short term mentality.1 >>@ >>Only if the metrics place undue value on that.  And as I notedH >>elsewhere, the metrics themselves allow the stockholders to assess the> >>BoD in such areas - thus creating the kind of chain of clearG >>responsibility which should exist (if the stockholders don't hold thelB >>BoD accountable for defining and enforcing the CEO's performance, >>metrics, then they deserve what they get). >  >  > L > Don't forget that the BoD and officers of the company are legally requiredN > to do what is in the financial best interests of the shareholders -- not the > customers.  A I'm not sure why you thought I might be 'forgetting' any of that.e   > K > That's why the possibility at this juncture of HP becoming just a printerhE > and ink company is very real. The BoD didn't see the 'firing on all J > cylinders' that carly(tm) promised the Compaq takeover would provide and > I'll bet they are spooked.  I Too bad they weren't a lot more spooked years ago, before so much damage fC had already been done:  they would only have had to carve a single  F person (well, perhaps Robison too; I suspect that people like Winkler E have their uses as long as one doesn't let them get too close to the nG command structure) out of the company back then to have started on the o road to recovery.o  G The BoD has some latitude in determining what is in the financial best -A interests of shareholders.  For example, if they feel that their iH shareholders are mostly short-term speculators, they may feel obligated I to  carve HP up like a DEC Thanksgiving turkey that has been languishing  H in someone's trunk for several months (don't laugh:  IIRC it was Richie I who told this story about helping Alan Kotok move one year, long ago) so oI that the investors can take whatever profits they may be able to get and . scoot.  H OTOH, if the BoD feels that shareholders are in HP for the longer term, D they'll act differently (though that will be a considerably greater  challenge in the short term)."   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 23:15:08 -0500d' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> 4 Subject: Re: There is certainly opportunity in chaos0 Message-ID: <114s6fmp6ksro83@corp.supernews.com>   John Smith wrote:o  L > Don't forget that the BoD and officers of the company are legally requiredN > to do what is in the financial best interests of the shareholders -- not the > customers.  G In a company like HP, which is 100% dependant upon customers, the best jE interests of the customers, and keeping them as customers, is in the e# best interests of the shareholders.2  H If you don't believe that, then please explain to me the benefit to the G shareholders in the stock dropping to zero and the company sold off to s8 pay creditors when all the customers desert the company?   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 13:56:15 -0500i- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>n6 Subject: Re: X-windows: changing cursor from and AST ?B Message-ID: <1112381772.45a8a9e12a88295802ac26055eb25e99@teranews>   FredK wrote: > # > X11 is thread safe, Motif is not.Y  ' Thanks. Even the X11 available on VAX ?v  F I know that current Motif versions are thread safe. (It was one of the% big changes in recent Motif versions)    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 21:10:09 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>. Subject: Re: [TCPIP] remote login observations+ Message-ID: <424E0D11.7C6C6430@comcast.net>8    Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER wrote: > ; > 1) Login into VMS via SSH is "LOCAL" instead of "REMOTE".-# > (TELNET & RLOGIN do use "REMOTE")4 >  > I see this as a bug. > K > 2) Login into VMS via SSH requires /NETWORK access in addition instead of.F > /INTERACTIVE access alone. (TELNET & RLOGIN do not require /NETWORK) >  > I see this as a bug, too.h9 > (At least as an undocumented restriction I don't like.)s > N > This is valid for TCPIP V5.4 and V5.5. The only difference is see so far is,N > that in V5.4 a failed login because of a missing /NET is an intrusion recordF > SSH_PASSWORD:mumble and in V5.5 there is no intrusion record at all. >  > What do you think ?   * CTERM (DECnet SET HOST) was remote, IIRC.   G Seems to me this should help restrict access. More trusted accounts cannE be granted /REMOTE access (enables simple TELNET), while less trustedt: ones can have that denied so SSH (a more thorough level of authentication) is required.  . Then again, I could be way off base on that...   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systemss http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:1" http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/E  " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/s   Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.183 ************************