1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 07 Apr 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 194       Contents:! Re: 2node to 3 node cluster setup  Re: Broken vax4000 Re: Broken vax4000 Re: Broken vax4000 DCPS 2.3, %DCPS-F-STREAMUSE  Re: DCPS 2.3, %DCPS-F-STREAMUSE  DECForms Web Connector 3.05 Re: Frustration!  EB64+ too old to run OpenVMS 7.3-1? 4 Re: High File Watermarking question for Hoff Hoffman4 Re: High File Watermarking question for Hoff Hoffman4 Re: High File Watermarking question for Hoff Hoffman4 Re: High File Watermarking question for Hoff Hoffman< HP Customer Times is now available for your viewing pleasure3 Re: Making a mail message visible to the POP server 3 Re: Making a mail message visible to the POP server 3 Re: Making a mail message visible to the POP server  Multiprocessor Microvax II ?  Re: Multiprocessor Microvax II ?  Re: Multiprocessor Microvax II ?  Re: Multiprocessor Microvax II ? Re: OpenVMS 8.2 for a hobbyist Quintara web-mail for OpenVMS  Re: Remote printing woes. 
 Re: SCSI-3 Re: Site down? Re: Site down? Re: Site down? Re: Site down?. Re: SUBMIT/USER needs write access to SYSUAF ?. Re: SUBMIT/USER needs write access to SYSUAF ?; TCO Study Rates HP OpenVMS on HP Integrity over IBM and Sun 4 Re: Vernon, the VMS shark, looking for early testers  Re: VMS 7.3-2 with 48 MB memory?  Re: VMS 7.3-2 with 48 MB memory?F Re: Which release notes say sts$manager:utc$configure_tdf  is obsoleteF Re: Which release notes say sts$manager:utc$configure_tdf  is obsoleteF Re: Which release notes say sts$manager:utc$configure_tdf  is obsoleteE Re: Which release notes say sts$manager:utc$configure_tdf is obsolete E Re: Which release notes say sts$manager:utc$configure_tdf is obsolete - Re: X-windows: changing cursor from and AST ?  Re: Zero IOSB status [TCPIP V5.4 ECO4] SFTP rants  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 7 Apr 2005 09:15:22 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) * Subject: Re: 2node to 3 node cluster setup3 Message-ID: <$PFHk$adZuZG@eisner.encompasserve.org>   [ In article <3b35ibF6flsoeU1@individual.net>, "Hans Vlems" <hvlems.dotweg@zonnet.nl> writes:   H > From this I assume that you want to use ethernet as the (only) cluster > interconnectC > and that you want DECnet as the carrier for the cluster protocol.   B    DECnet is not a carrier for cluster communications.  VMSclusterB    over ethernet sits right on top of ethernet, having a different    ethernet protocol number.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 07:29:51 GMT 4 From: Mike Rechtman <michael.rechtman.nospam@hp.com> Subject: Re: Broken vax4000 & Message-ID: <42550B9D.5863F2C3@hp.com>   Tom Linden wrote:  > 7 > On Wed, 06 Apr 2005 21:45:51 -0400, Stanley F. Quayle ! > <squayle@insight.rr.com> wrote:  > . > > On 6 Apr 2005 at 21:21, Dave Froble wrote:G > >> Come on Stan, shameless plugs for Charon are one thing.  $25 for a K > >> cable with $3 of parts is another.  The newsgroup isn't for commercial  > >> stuff.  > > F > > It's sort of like the engineer joke about knowing where to put theE > > chalk mark.  Actually, I've written up the details on my web site  > > (for free): E > Allright Dave you have the specs, courtesy of Stan, would you do it 
 > for $25? > > % > >   http://www.stanq.com/cable.html  > >  > > --Stan Quayle  > > Quayle Consulting Inc. > >  > > ----------1 > > Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363 7 > > 8572 North Spring Ct., Pickerington, OH  43147  USA 4 > > stan-at-stanq-dot-com       http://www.stanq.com > >  > >  > > B If you can, get hold of a regular MMJ - MMJ cable, and an adapter:E H8571-J is a 9-pin female adapter, H8571-A is a 25-pin female adapter , (looking at one of each right now; lucky me)> DO NOT use the H8575-B, which only matches (IIRC) micro-Vaxen.B For pinouts and some more info re cables and adapters cf. the FAQ.   Mike --  E --------------------------------------------------------------------- E Usual disclaimer: All opinions are mine alone, perhaps not even that. ? Mike Rechtman                            *rechtman@tzora.co.il* F Kibbutz Tzor'a.                          Voice (home): 972-2-9908337  B   "20% of a job takes 80% of the time, the rest takes another 80%"E ---------------------------------------------------------------------  -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----  Version: 3.1: GCM/CS d(-)pu s:+>:- a++ C++ U-- L-- W++ N++ K? w--- V+++$6 PS+ PE-- t 5? X- tv-- b+ DI+ D-- G e++ h--- r+++ y+++@ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 11:39:19 -0600 " From: GreyCloud <cumulus@mist.com> Subject: Re: Broken vax4000 ( Message-ID: <42557047.8750254D@mist.com>  # chris_doran@postmaster.co.uk wrote:  >  > Kofi Anan wrote: > > I didn't use the vlc) > > for at least a year, as I have moved.  > E > In that case, it's probably stuck at a console prompt asking you to C > enter date and time. Tomorrow, I'll check on one I have here that G > hasn't been used for a similar period. You really do need that cable. I > I'd offer to send you one from my vast stock inherited when my employer B > gave up DECcing, but it'd probably cost >$25 p&p from here (UK). > A > You might also check your MAU, as IME they're a bit fragile and $ > sometimes even explode, literally! >   < The MAU leds are lit except for the SOE test led.  The link,  polarity, and link leds are lit.: It's a CENTRECOM 210T.  Can you tell me the part number or. vendor I can visit on the web for this cable??   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 11:40:52 -0600 " From: GreyCloud <cumulus@mist.com> Subject: Re: Broken vax4000 ( Message-ID: <425570A4.27415E82@mist.com>   Mark Schafer wrote:  > I > I have a VLC owner's guide.  Send me an email if you want me to fax you  > a few pages. > I > If the system detects an error during the startup tests, the diagnostic G > lights remain lit.  When the system is running, all of the diagnostic  > lights are off.   8 I just noticed that the diagnostic leds don't report the" same thing everytime I turn it on. Strange.   > ? > The audio adapter is pin-compatible with a telephone handset.  >   8 During the self tests, what am I supposed to hear if the unit is good??   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Apr 2005 02:47:49 -0700  From: tiina.ayris@abagri.com$ Subject: DCPS 2.3, %DCPS-F-STREAMUSEC Message-ID: <1112867269.928745.324890@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   D Hi, Would anyone kno why the following errors take place if I stop a= dcps queue (HP LJ 4200N), and restart the queue. Stopping the - queue/reset & restarting it clears the error.  Oh, yes, VMS v 7.3-1.    NODE1::>SH QUE PET*2F2/FUL  Generic printer queue PETLAND2F2/   /GENERIC=(PETLASER2F2) /OWNER=[SYSMAN,SYSTEM] 0 /PROTECTION=(S:M,O:D,G:R,W:S) /SCHEDULE=(NOSIZE)  > Printer queue PETLASER2F2, idle, on NODE1::DCPS$, mounted form DCPS$DEFAULT (stock=DEFAULT)8   /AUTOSTART_ON=(NODE1::DCPS$,NODE2::DCPS$,NODE3::DCPS$)= /BASE_PRIORITY=4 /DEFAULT=(FORM=DCPS$DEFAULT (stock=DEFAULT))  /NOENABLE_GENERIC 4   /LIBRARY=DCPS_LIB Lowercase /OWNER=[SYSMAN,SYSTEM]? /PROCESSOR=DCPS$SMB /PROTECTION=(S:M,O:D,G:R,W:S) /RETAIN=ERROR    /SCHEDULE=(NOSIZE)    Generic printer queue PETPORT2F2/   /GENERIC=(PETLASER2F2) /OWNER=[SYSMAN,SYSTEM] 0 /PROTECTION=(S:M,O:D,G:R,W:S) /SCHEDULE=(NOSIZE)  ! NODE1::>STOP/QUE/NEXT PETLASER2F2  NODE1::>STA/QUE PETLASER2F2 8 %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM   7-APR-2005 10:12:47.14  %%%%%%%%%%%! Message from user SYSTEM on NODE1 B Process SYMBIONT_114: %DCPS-F-STREAMUSE, Request 4 for Stream Id 0+ ignored; not consistent with symbiont state    %SYSTEM-F-ABORT, abortF %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM   7-APR-2005 10:12:47.14  %%%%%%%%%%%    (from node$ NODE3    at  7-APR-2005 10:12:47.14)! Message from user SYSTEM on NODE3 C %QMAN-I-QUENOTSTART, queue PETLASER2F2 could not be started on node  NODE1   F %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM   7-APR-2005 10:12:47.14  %%%%%%%%%%%    (from node$ NODE3    at  7-APR-2005 10:12:47.14)! Message from user SYSTEM on NODE3 ? -QMAN-I-QUEAUTOOFF, queue PETLASER2F2 is now autostart inactive   F %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM   7-APR-2005 10:12:47.15  %%%%%%%%%%%    (from node$ NODE3    at  7-APR-2005 10:12:47.14)! Message from user SYSTEM on NODE3  -SYSTEM-F-ABORT, abort   NODE1::>SH QUE PET*2F2/FUL  Generic printer queue PETLAND2F2/   /GENERIC=(PETLASER2F2) /OWNER=[SYSMAN,SYSTEM] 0 /PROTECTION=(S:M,O:D,G:R,W:S) /SCHEDULE=(NOSIZE)  ; Printer queue PETLASER2F2, stopping, device unavailable, on 7 NODE1::DCPS$, mounted form DCPS$DEFAULT (STOCK=DEFAULT) 8   /AUTOSTART_ON=(NODE1::DCPS$,NODE2::DCPS$,NODE3::DCPS$)= /BASE_PRIORITY=4 /DEFAULT=(FORM=DCPS$DEFAULT (stock=DEFAULT))  /NOENABLE_GENERIC >   /LIBRARY=DCPS_LIB /OWNER=[SYSMAN,SYSTEM] /PROCESSOR=DCPS$SMB> /PROTECTION=(S:M,O:D,G:R,W:S) /RETAIN=ERROR /SCHEDULE=(NOSIZE)    Generic printer queue PETPORT2F2/   /GENERIC=(PETLASER2F2) /OWNER=[SYSMAN,SYSTEM] 0 /PROTECTION=(S:M,O:D,G:R,W:S) /SCHEDULE=(NOSIZE)% NODE1::>SH SYS/PROC=SYMBIONT_114/CLUS C OpenVMS V7.3-1  on node NODE1   7-APR-2005 10:16:25.66  Uptime  107  18:26:51F   Pid    Process Name    State  Pri      I/O       CPU       Page flts Pages F 208D8DF2 SYMBIONT_114    HIB      6  1802260   0 00:10:33.59     96494   477   $ SYSMAN> do sh logi/sys dcps$pet*2f2*1 %SYSMAN-I-OUTPUT, command execution on node NODE3  (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)=   "DCPS$PETLAND2F2_PARAMETER" = "DATA=ANSI,PAGE_OR=LANDSCAPE" "   "DCPS$PETLASER2F2_DEVICE_NAME" =& "IP_RawTCP/petlaser2f2.mydom.com:9100"%   "DCPS$PETLASER2F2_NO_SYNC" = "TRUE" +   "DCPS$PETPORT2F2_PARAMETER" = "DATA=ANSI"  (LNM$SYSCLUSTER_TABLE)1 %SYSMAN-I-OUTPUT, command execution on node NODE2  (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)=   "DCPS$PETLAND2F2_PARAMETER" = "DATA=ANSI,PAGE_OR=LANDSCAPE" "   "DCPS$PETLASER2F2_DEVICE_NAME" =& "IP_RawTCP/petlaser2f2.mydom.com:9100"%   "DCPS$PETLASER2F2_NO_SYNC" = "TRUE" +   "DCPS$PETPORT2F2_PARAMETER" = "DATA=ANSI"  (LNM$SYSCLUSTER_TABLE)1 %SYSMAN-I-OUTPUT, command execution on node NODE1  (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)=   "DCPS$PETLAND2F2_PARAMETER" = "DATA=ANSI,PAGE_OR=LANDSCAPE" "   "DCPS$PETLASER2F2_DEVICE_NAME" =& "IP_RawTCP/petlaser2f2.mydom.com:9100"%   "DCPS$PETLASER2F2_NO_SYNC" = "TRUE" %   "DCPS$PETLASER2F2_PID" = "208F9888" +   "DCPS$PETPORT2F2_PARAMETER" = "DATA=ANSI"  (LNM$SYSCLUSTER_TABLE)  G What gets me is that the 2nd OPCOM message comes from NODE3, not NODE1, % where the queues symbiont is running. & Any ideas will be greatly appreciated. Tiina    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 13:49:08 GMT * From: Paul Anderson <paul.anderson@hp.com>( Subject: Re: DCPS 2.3, %DCPS-F-STREAMUSE5 Message-ID: <070420050949175347%paul.anderson@hp.com>   C In article <1112867269.928745.324890@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,  <tiina.ayris@abagri.com> wrote:   G > Would anyone kno why the following errors take place if I stop a dcps F > queue (HP LJ 4200N), and restart the queue. Stopping the queue/reset# > & restarting it clears the error.   @ You have stumbled upon one of our favorite DCPS errors.  ;-)  ItG results from a misunderstanding between DCPS and the queue manager.  We D thought we had eliminated all causes of this error in DCPS V2.3, but9 just stomped out one more since the release of DCPS V2.4.   C If you have the logical name DCPS$MAX_STREAMS defined to be greater B than 1, try undefining it or defining it to 1.  Then stop all DCPSE queues and make sure there are no DCPS symbiont processes left on the ? system.  Then restart the DCPS queues.  The result will be more E symbiont processes but almost no chance of experiencing the STREAMUSE  error.  A If you would like to try a field test kit based on DCPS V2.4 that 5 contains the latest STREAMUSE fix please let me know.    Paul   --    Paul Anderson   OpenVMS Engineering    Hewlett-Packard Company    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 10:51:27 +0200: From: "Mark Vilstrup Svanesteen" <mark.svanesteen@mail.dk># Subject: DECForms Web Connector 3.0 < Message-ID: <4254f48b$0$73763$edfadb0f@dread14.news.tele.dk>   Hi,   I Anyone have any experience running the new DECForms Web Connector 3.2 on   Alpha?L We tried the 3.0 version, but for a number of reasons it just wasn't it. We L need to accesss the web-server from a nokia9300, but the phone is unable to F run applets (which is the chosen implementation of DECForms W.B. 3.0).  I Also, anyone know of a good way to get access to programs running on VMS  + from a webserver, other than DECForms W.B.?   F PS: I'm pretty new to this whole VMS-thing, but learning fast. Please $ explain things in a non-nerd-way ...   Thanks in advance.  " Mark Vilstrup Svanesteen, Denmark    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 23:15:02 +0800  From: prep@prep.synonet.com > Subject: Re: Frustration!  EB64+ too old to run OpenVMS 7.3-1?- Message-ID: <87mzscym15.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   4 "Dave Weatherall" <djw-nothere@nospam.nohow> writes:  G > On Tue, 5 Apr 2005 16:23:27 UTC, hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) wrote:   F >>   or 4D20 will *probably* work here, but some of the newer graphicsB >>   controllers require EV6-class processors and non-swizzled bus	 >>   I/O.   F >           you and Fred have mentioned 'swizzled' before. At the timeE > I thought must check it out but I forgot so, before I do again, can # > I ask : what does 'swizzle' mean?   > A `swizzle stick' is put in your cocktail so you can stir it.   C Swizzled addresses are `stirred' with address, size and byte offset < to get the needed bits from the mostly braindamaged PC card.   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 23:25:06 +0800  From: prep@prep.synonet.com = Subject: Re: High File Watermarking question for Hoff Hoffman - Message-ID: <87is30ylkd.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   * Jeff Cameron <roktsci@comcast.net> writes:   > Dear Hoff,  $ > Settle an argument, if you please.  D > Is the following true or not, about High file Watermarking in VMS?  > Please feel free to elaborate.   > Assertion:E > On a disk with High File Watermarking enabled, blocks are zeroed on  > allocation/extent.     > Supplemental: M > In the case of sequential files, the bytes between the logical and physical E > EOF are also zeroed when the logical file mark location is written.   = The HWM records the highest block sequentially written in the F file. This is the beginning of the potentially scavangable data in theB blocks allocated, and any read after this point must return zeros,? possitioning FFB past it must first zero in blocks in the range F advanced over, and a random write to a higher than n+1 block must zeroC the skipped blocks first. Allowing a random write to the file would E leave a range of blocks < the write that have not yet been written to H and thus could be scavanged as the HWM is now at the block just written.   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 11:42:26 -04004 From: "Peter Weaver" <newsgroup@weaverconsulting.ca>= Subject: Re: High File Watermarking question for Hoff Hoffman , Message-ID: <3bl2n6F5u97ttU1@individual.net>   Jilly wrote: >... > $ MOUNT/... testdisk > $ ANA/SYS  > DKLOG START testdisk > EXIT1 > $ COPY/ALLOC=1000 NL: testdisk:[000000]JUNK.DAT @ > $ ! wait a min or 2 so you can see the seperate steps in DKLOG* > $ SET FILE/END testdisk:[000000]JUNK.DAT > $ ANA/SYS  > SET OUT DKLOG.LOG  > DKLOG SHOW testdisk  > DKLOG STOP > DKLOG CLEAR testdisk > EXIT > > > Now DKLOG.LOG will have all the IO activity to the testdisk. >...   Is DKLOG documented anywhere?    --   Peter Weaver Weaver Consulting Services Inc.  Canadian VAR for CHARON-VAX  www.weaverconsulting.ca    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 11:58:05 -0400 & From: Jilly <jilly@clarityconnect.com>= Subject: Re: High File Watermarking question for Hoff Hoffman B Message-ID: <1112889470.3b281a89f47dde9e6261ee344fce407a@teranews>   Peter Weaver wrote:    > Jilly wrote: >>...  >> $ MOUNT/... testdisk  >> $ ANA/SYS >> DKLOG START testdisk  >> EXIT 2 >> $ COPY/ALLOC=1000 NL: testdisk:[000000]JUNK.DATA >> $ ! wait a min or 2 so you can see the seperate steps in DKLOG + >> $ SET FILE/END testdisk:[000000]JUNK.DAT  >> $ ANA/SYS >> SET OUT DKLOG.LOG >> DKLOG SHOW testdisk
 >> DKLOG STOP  >> DKLOG CLEAR testdisk  >> EXIT  >>? >> Now DKLOG.LOG will have all the IO activity to the testdisk.  >>...  >  > Is DKLOG documented anywhere?  >   H No.  The only help you can get is to type just DKLOG at the SDA prompt. J This is one of many SDA helpers available, see DIR SYS$SHARE:*$SDA.EXE for likely names of other ones ;*)  J Of course if you come to the OpenVMS Advanced Technical Bootcamp you mightF see some of these in action and I'd be glad to look at a few with you.   --  B Jilly - Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley, Waverly, NYF       - jilly@stny.rr.com                http://home.stny.rr.com/jillyE       - mark.jilson@hp.com               http://www.hp.com/go/openvms ;       - http://www.jilsonracing.com      Go Fast, Turn Left C       - http://www.chemungspeedrome.com  Door Handle to Door Handle    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 16:05:10 GMT / From: brooks@cuebid.zko.dec.nospam (Rob Brooks) = Subject: Re: High File Watermarking question for Hoff Hoffman - Message-ID: <Datg$H0YgV$o@cuebid.zko.dec.com>   6 "Peter Weaver" <newsgroup@weaverconsulting.ca> writes: > Jilly wrote:  & 	[stuff about the DKLOG SDA extension] >>? >> Now DKLOG.LOG will have all the IO activity to the testdisk.  >>...  >  > Is DKLOG documented anywhere?   N No, but there is not much to it; the command syntax is pretty straightforward.3 Type DKLOG at the SDA> prompt, and you'll get . . .    DKLOG command format: M   DKLOG SHOW  {<devnam>|/ADDRESS=<ucbaddr>} [/DIRECTION=[FORWARD|BACKWARD(D)] E   DKLOG START {<devnam>|/ADDRESS=<ucbaddr>}[/ENTRIES=[<count>|128(D)] +   DKLOG STOP  {<devnam>|/ADDRESS=<ucbaddr>} +   DKLOG CLEAR {<devnam>|/ADDRESS=<ucbaddr>} L   <devnam> acts on all matching device UCBs, <ucbaddr> acts on a single UCB.  E SYS$DKDRIVER has several points during the life of an I/O at which it N stores info.  An understanding of the SCSI spec is helpful when looking at the data.    It's a great tool!   --    M Rob Brooks    VMS Engineering -- I/O Exec Group     brooks!cuebid.zko.dec.com    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Apr 2005 08:26:08 -0700 ! From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com E Subject: HP Customer Times is now available for your viewing pleasure C Message-ID: <1112887568.932656.266630@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>   E There is a great deal of information available in this journal across  BCS including OpenVMS.  K http://www.hp.com/products1/evolution/customertimes/index.html?ct=evolution     
 Warm Regards,  Sue    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 08:48:33 +0100 0 From: Chris Sharman <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam>< Subject: Re: Making a mail message visible to the POP server4 Message-ID: <d32okh$pup$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk>   JF Mezei wrote: I > Is there a trick to take a read email message and file it in such a way G > that the POP server will see the message amd make it available to the  > POP client ? > B > Just filing a message in the NEWMAIL folder doesn't do anything.  D It does for me using IUPOP3 with VMS 7.3 & -1, and probably earlier % versions, and TCPIP5.1 & 5.3 & UCX 4.     Which POP server are you using ?   Chris    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 05:42:57 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> < Subject: Re: Making a mail message visible to the POP serverB Message-ID: <1112866956.be31c3df3442470f5f9472f24956bddb@teranews>   Chris Sharman wrote:E > It does for me using IUPOP3 with VMS 7.3 & -1, and probably earlier ' > versions, and TCPIP5.1 & 5.3 & UCX 4.  > " > Which POP server are you using ?  7 The one that comes with TCPIP Services (VAX) 5.3 ECO 2.   H I think it really checks on the "new mail" bit. I do have iot configuredG to leave messages on the server (or to allow this to happen). This way, F if I download messages, they aren't really gone so when I come back toH office/home, I can still access them). (This is especially the case whenO the mobile phone only download the first X kb of a large message for instance).    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 12:06:33 +0100 # From: issinoho <issinoho@gmail.com> < Subject: Re: Making a mail message visible to the POP server0 Message-ID: <115a51q7fa0f85b@corp.supernews.com>   JF Mezei wrote:  > Chris Sharman wrote: > E >>It does for me using IUPOP3 with VMS 7.3 & -1, and probably earlier ' >>versions, and TCPIP5.1 & 5.3 & UCX 4.  >>" >>Which POP server are you using ? >  > 9 > The one that comes with TCPIP Services (VAX) 5.3 ECO 2.  > J > I think it really checks on the "new mail" bit. I do have iot configuredI > to leave messages on the server (or to allow this to happen). This way, H > if I download messages, they aren't really gone so when I come back toJ > office/home, I can still access them). (This is especially the case whenQ > the mobile phone only download the first X kb of a large message for instance).   ' TCPWare also works a treat, POP & IMAP.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 05:54:19 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> % Subject: Multiprocessor Microvax II ? B Message-ID: <1112867637.a98ecd3b253054750b3bb119c7c6218a@teranews>  3 I found a copy of the KA630 CPU motherboard manual.   H Low and behold, it mentions that the all mighty Microvax II was designedF to have multiple CPU boards on the single Q bus, with one board acting5 as the arbitrator and other acting as auxiliary CPUs.   F I was flaberghasted ! Does this mean that by just setting a bit in theC console memory that I could then insert a second MVII board into my G all-mighty Microvax II and magically find myself with an SMP system ??? I (could I insert it on a running system without shutting it down ? :-) :-)   D Seriously, this is a most interesting engineering capability. Has itE ever been put to use ? If so, what sort of uses ? The text mentions a . type of interCPU interconnect similar to a CI.    8 Oh, and those big purple chips are called "Gate Arrays".  1 I put up a page showing the MV-II motherboard at:   0 http://www.vaxination.ca/vms/microvax/mv_ii.html  G (At the bottom is also a link to the microvax resources home page which 6 contains many links to microvax resources on the net).  H BTW, the manual talks about the 78032 CPU chip, but on my board (versionG 02 of the board) the chip is labeled as 21-22797-01. Are these the same F or a different generation ? (or does the manual uses KA630-AA to refer to a Microvax 1 ?)   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 17:08:01 +0200 - From: Didier Morandi <prenom.nom@freesurf.fr> ) Subject: Re: Multiprocessor Microvax II ? 3 Message-ID: <42554cd4$0$2222$626a14ce@news.free.fr>   E There was a so-called MIRA system produced by CSS Annecy back in the  E 80's, but they were two MV-II boxes. One Master and one slave. Maybe  " these two information have a link.   D.   JF Mezei wrote:   5 > I found a copy of the KA630 CPU motherboard manual.  > J > Low and behold, it mentions that the all mighty Microvax II was designedH > to have multiple CPU boards on the single Q bus, with one board acting7 > as the arbitrator and other acting as auxiliary CPUs.  > H > I was flaberghasted ! Does this mean that by just setting a bit in theE > console memory that I could then insert a second MVII board into my I > all-mighty Microvax II and magically find myself with an SMP system ??? K > (could I insert it on a running system without shutting it down ? :-) :-)  > F > Seriously, this is a most interesting engineering capability. Has itG > ever been put to use ? If so, what sort of uses ? The text mentions a 0 > type of interCPU interconnect similar to a CI. >  > : > Oh, and those big purple chips are called "Gate Arrays". > 3 > I put up a page showing the MV-II motherboard at:  > 2 > http://www.vaxination.ca/vms/microvax/mv_ii.html > I > (At the bottom is also a link to the microvax resources home page which 8 > contains many links to microvax resources on the net). > J > BTW, the manual talks about the 78032 CPU chip, but on my board (versionI > 02 of the board) the chip is labeled as 21-22797-01. Are these the same H > or a different generation ? (or does the manual uses KA630-AA to refer > to a Microvax 1 ?)     --  ,        Didier MORANDI - Expert informaticien0   13 chemin du Gu, 1213 Petit-Lancy (GE) Suisse0 Tl. : +33(0)6 7983 6418 ~ www.didiermorandi.com   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Apr 2005 10:36:49 -0500  From: gleason@encompasserve.org ) Subject: Re: Multiprocessor Microvax II ? 3 Message-ID: <ZFuJgUcp+as0@eisner.encompasserve.org>   r In article <1112867637.a98ecd3b253054750b3bb119c7c6218a@teranews>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:5 > I found a copy of the KA630 CPU motherboard manual.  > J > Low and behold, it mentions that the all mighty Microvax II was designedH > to have multiple CPU boards on the single Q bus, with one board acting7 > as the arbitrator and other acting as auxiliary CPUs.  > H > I was flaberghasted ! Does this mean that by just setting a bit in theE > console memory that I could then insert a second MVII board into my I > all-mighty Microvax II and magically find myself with an SMP system ??? K > (could I insert it on a running system without shutting it down ? :-) :-)  > F > Seriously, this is a most interesting engineering capability. Has itG > ever been put to use ? If so, what sort of uses ? The text mentions a 0 > type of interCPU interconnect similar to a CI. >  > @   I think there is some more detail on this in the "Micronotes",@ a bunch of articles from DEC engineering about small systems. ItB is available on DECUServe as note 26 in the Micronotes conference,'  no doubt lots of other places as well.    Lee K. Gleason N5ZMR Control-G Consultants    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 17:14:56 GMT A From: "Colin Butcher" <colin_DOT.butcher_AT@xdelta_DOT.co_DOT.uk> ) Subject: Re: Multiprocessor Microvax II ? ; Message-ID: <kUd5e.5843$G8.4188@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk>   J MIRA (named after a double star) was a hot standby pair of machines with a? hardware watchdog between them. There was also IO switching for L communications lines. MIRA 1 used uVAX II (or PDP11) in BA23s with DEC builtL watchdog boards and IO switch modules in yet more BA23s. Great, but not veryI nice to work on. MIRA 2 used VAX 4000 type systems with modified DSV11 as K the watchdog and external switching from Dynatech. Easy to work on and very 	 reliable.   . All very nice, but not multiprocessor systems.   --     Hope this helps, Colin. ) colin DOT butcher AT xdelta DOT co DOT uk E It's not mine, but I like this definition: Legacy = stuff that works.    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Apr 2005 09:00:28 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) ' Subject: Re: OpenVMS 8.2 for a hobbyist 3 Message-ID: <$O0VtbAxzVzH@eisner.encompasserve.org>   W In article <3b0jl4F6dlis5U1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:  > D > Texas? Big?  Texas stopped being even the biggest state  in the USF > when I was still reading nickel comic books.  (anybody else remember$ > the Batman comic "The 49th Star"?)  D    Texas' greatest fear is that Alaska will decide to split into two:    states.  That would make Texas the third largest state.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 07:19:30 GMT ) From: Joel Baker <jbaker@tryquintara.com> & Subject: Quintara web-mail for OpenVMS3 Message-ID: <6a55e.329$qS4.101@fe2.columbus.rr.com>   1  From the cool-neat-new-things-with-OpenVMS-dept:   G I have been playing with a demo account of a very nice web-based e-mail F solution for OpenVMS, called Quintara from Brilliant Systems. It runs  nativelyB on OpenVMS and hooks into VMSMAIL. Has built in spam filtering andE I guess they have their own anti-virus solution in the works as well. C So far it is really neat. They have announced availability for both  Alpha and Itanium this spring.  2 The company's web site is http://www.brilliant.com  K They have set up a demo system for people to try out Quintara demo accounts 1 (that's how I got mine) at http://tryquintara.com    Cheers!    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 10:01:40 +0100 % From: David Gray <police@spamcop.net> " Subject: Re: Remote printing woes.8 Message-ID: <3nt951dgfaaacj13s4m9ra36bd0pu6ccqh@4ax.com>   I'll give that a try. Cheers.       B On 6 Apr 2005 06:58:02 -0700, Chris@Reinhartfoodservice.com wrote:  H >I am not familiar with the Ricoh 1060 printers but the Ricoh printers I1 >have worked with use port 10001 instead of 9100.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 09:03:27 +0100 # From: issinoho <issinoho@gmail.com>  Subject: Re: SCSI-3 : Message-ID: <1112861022.25081.0@sabbath.news.uk.clara.net>   Tom Linden wrote: : > On 6 Apr 2005 18:52:34 -0700, johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com  # > <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com> wrote:  >  >> >> issinoho wrote: >> >>> issinoho wrote: D >>> > Will my PWS433au support the use of a Compaq Wide-Ultra SCSI-3 >>	 >> drive,  >> >>> > Part Number: 313706-B21 ?  >>> > H >>> > I notice the inteface plug is a different format (again!) so would >> >> a >>C >>> > simple convertor do the trick or is it natively incompatible.  >>> B >>> Looking a bit closer, it seems if I get an Active adaptor that >>
 >> applies >>F >>> power and converts from the SCA 80 pin of the drive down to the 68 >> >> pin >>% >>> of my SCSI ribbon I should be OK.  >>> 4 >>> These are relatively cheap - I will report back. >> >>J >> It should work fine. Just watch the clearance. The adapters add betweenI >> .25 and .375 of an inch to the length of the drive.  I've had a bit of G >> a problem at times wedging everything in.  Sometimes you have to put 2 >> the drives(s) in a different mounting position. >>J >> Be a bit picky on the adapter you get too.  I'd avoid the $2.95 ones onG >> ebay.  Look for the ones in the $10-$15 range.  If you go to a local D >> store they may cost as much as $35 (if they have them).  At leastG >> adapting to the 40Mbs SCSI in the PWS you don't really have to worry E >> too much about compatiblity with the SCSI 160 or 320 requirements.  >> > L > The adapters that I used were a small PCB about 1"by 4" and the had the 80H > pin connector on on side which plugged into the drive and on the otherH > side the 68 pin, molex power and device id jumpers which extends the  	 > overall  > length by at most 1/2" > / Thanks guys, I'll get one from RSWWW in the UK.    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Apr 2005 05:58:47 GMT 2 From: "Dave Weatherall" <djw-nothere@nospam.nohow> Subject: Re: Site down? ? Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-ejLP1nuJGbWw@dave2_os2.home.ours>   8 On Wed, 6 Apr 2005 18:04:18 UTC, Jean-Franois Pironne  <jf.pieronne@laposte.net>   wrote:    > issinoho a crit :# > > Anyone know what's happened to  2 > > http://www.pi-net.dyndns.org/anonymous/kits/ ? > > M > > I've been trying to get the latest version of MySQL for several days now.  > J > My new ADSL modem has crashed and I was on another site for a few days, 8 > I have rebooted (power off/on) it and this work again. > ; > I have never thought that a ADSL modem can crash/hang :-(    It's got software in it... :-)   --   Cheers - Dave W.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 08:44:15 +0200 3 From: =?windows-1252?Q?Jean-Fran=E7ois_Pi=E9ronne?=  Subject: Re: Site down? 5 Message-ID: <4254d7ba$0$848$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>    Dave Weatherall a crit : : > On Wed, 6 Apr 2005 18:04:18 UTC, Jean-Franois Pironne  > <jf.pieronne@laposte.net> 	 >  wrote:  >  >  >>issinoho a crit : >>" >>>Anyone know what's happened to 1 >>>http://www.pi-net.dyndns.org/anonymous/kits/ ?u >>> L >>>I've been trying to get the latest version of MySQL for several days now. >>J >>My new ADSL modem has crashed and I was on another site for a few days, 8 >>I have rebooted (power off/on) it and this work again. >>; >>I have never thought that a ADSL modem can crash/hang :-(m >  >   > It's got software in it... :-) > D Yes, but the previous one had never hang during more than 7 years...  G One of my friend which do plane model-making has told me a story about mC new remote control which use windows CE with many new features but  G randomly crash. This not a problem, you can reboot the remote control, gG but generally in meantime your plane has also crash and when this is a PE jet flighting a few hundred km/h this can also be very dangerous for ?I present people which have sometime to throw to the ground... And it is a pE little more difficult to repair a crash plane than to reboot a crash i remote control :-))I   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 08:48:10 +0200M1 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jean-Fran=E7ois_Pi=E9ronne?=U Subject: Re: Site down? 5 Message-ID: <4254d7bc$0$848$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>e   Paul Sture a crit : > Jean-Franois Pironne wrote:r >  >> issinoho a crit :i >># >>> Anyone know what's happened to B2 >>> http://www.pi-net.dyndns.org/anonymous/kits/ ? >>>fI >>> I've been trying to get the latest version of MySQL for several days r >>> now. >> >> >>E >> My new ADSL modem has crashed and I was on another site for a few e? >> days, I have rebooted (power off/on) it and this work again.t >>< >> I have never thought that a ADSL modem can crash/hang :-( >  > B > My experience is that they crash (in a visble way) but they can G > certainly hang - I've no idea whether that was the modem itself or a -I > problem at the ISAP side.  Sometimes rebooting the modem (router in my  : > case) is enough; at other times a power off is required.  = So now the problem is to automatically handle such situation.@@ Is is fearly easy to detect the problem, but to cure it is more G difficult... I have to find a way to power off/power on the modem from   VMS...   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 09:06:21 +0200h! From: Soterro <soterroatyahoocom>o Subject: Re: Site down? 9 Message-ID: <4254db27$0$303$4d4ef98e@read.news.ch.uu.net>M   Jean-Franois Pironne wrote:iF > Yes, but the previous one had never hang during more than 7 years... >   G Linksys after being bought by Cisco released a new firmware with Cisco mG logos and such, and everybody wanting to do a basic traceroute (me for 4F instance) had to downgrade from it because it was crashing the uplink.   SW   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Apr 2005 00:47:00 -0700t% From: Bart.Zorn@xs4all.nl (Bart Zorn) 7 Subject: Re: SUBMIT/USER needs write access to SYSUAF ?s= Message-ID: <a98cd882.0504062347.3c897344@posting.google.com>3  w JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message news:<1112817253.21a89bcc814165b34af6ab55b89b027a@teranews>...u > Peter Weaver wrote:t  > > $ SET WATCH/CLASS=MAJOR FILE; > > tells me that SUBMIT/USER is not writing to the SYSUAF;  > G > You would also need to do the set watch on the queue manager process.2  ? All tests that we did here did not generate any Authorize auditQ? alarms. To me that means that there has been no modification ofn; SYSUAF, which in turn means that no write access is needed.r  A Some obscure, alternative mechanism for the check if all required F privileges are available is not something I would expect from OpenVMS.  	 Bart Zorn    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 23:30:57 +0800p From: prep@prep.synonet.coma7 Subject: Re: SUBMIT/USER needs write access to SYSUAF ?B- Message-ID: <87ekdnzzv2.fsf@prep.synonet.com>i  - "Michel HERRSCHER" <mhc@herrscher.fr> writes:f  $ > Dans un message Bart Zorn disait :  F >> Does anybody have any idea what/why SUBMIT/USER would want to write >> to SYSUAF ?  E >> It looks like it does not write anything, though, because there is  >> nothing in the audit log.  K > NOP ....it is to record last batch login on the user record ... I suppose%  M Nope, it is the same as RUN/DETached, and must check the privs to do it. Else-" anyone can do a SUB/USER=SYSTEM...   -- -< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 09:24:34 +0200e! From: Soterro <soterroatyahoocom>iD Subject: TCO Study Rates HP OpenVMS on HP Integrity over IBM and Sun9 Message-ID: <4254df6c$0$308$4d4ef98e@read.news.ch.uu.net>y   Hello,  % I just read this in the DSPP Journal. = http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/whitepapers/alinean_tco.pdfoH There are a few things where I'm a bit surprised. Could anybody comment  on them?B There's a quite large downtime attributed to AIX. Also, the study D suggests that Solaris and AIX with High Availability Clustering are I _less_ available than the base configuration. Security incidents lists 0 hG DoS attacks for OpenVMS (I presume this is only because there are less  A VMS sites exposed to the net).  Not at least, they estimate zero tH application migration costs for VMS - was the study based on VMS-to-VMS  transitions?C I'm not saying the study is biased, I'm just eager to find out the l reasons to make those claims.e   Thanks a lot for any hints,A S7   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 10:07:09 +0200 3 From: Michael Unger <spam.to.unger@spamgourmet.com> = Subject: Re: Vernon, the VMS shark, looking for early testers , Message-ID: <3bk83jF6dbj9jU1@individual.net>  & On 2005-04-06 14:15, "JF Mezei" wrote:   > [...]  > G > Does anyone knwo which font was used to write the "OpenVMS" above the G > shark in the various square images that have bene generated so far ons > others ites ?i  C BTW: Does anyone know which typeface has been used for the originale "d|i|g|i|t|a|l" logo?i   Michael    -- -; Real names enhance the probability of getting real answers.r5 My e-mail account at DECUS Munich is no longer valid.S   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Apr 2005 09:27:07 -0500u; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)e) Subject: Re: VMS 7.3-2 with 48 MB memory?)3 Message-ID: <HMbTYiOhVzD5@eisner.encompasserve.org>   w In article <d2h4j8$hes$3@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes:  > J > However, the release notes say that 7.3-2 has a minimum memory of 64 MB.  F    64 MB was the minimum for Alpha at least back to 6.0.  Probably forG    1.5 .  I don't recall DEC ever offering a system building block withE    less than 64 MB.)   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 15:42:48 GMTL' From: Steve Thompson <smt@vgersoft.com> ) Subject: Re: VMS 7.3-2 with 48 MB memory? C Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0504071140090.11635@honker.vgersoft.com>   & On Thu, 7 Apr 2005, Bob Koehler wrote:  y > In article <d2h4j8$hes$3@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes:F > >OL > > However, the release notes say that 7.3-2 has a minimum memory of 64 MB. >%H >    64 MB was the minimum for Alpha at least back to 6.0.  Probably forI >    1.5 .  I don't recall DEC ever offering a system building block witht >    less than 64 MB.a  J When the 3000/400 came out with AXP/VMS 1.5 back in 1992, it was sold withH a base of 32MB. We bought several of them, and upgraded them all to 64MB5 almost immediately since it was soooooo slow with 32.r   Steved   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 06:32:03 GMT   From: John Santos <john@egh.com>O Subject: Re: Which release notes say sts$manager:utc$configure_tdf  is obsoleteL* Message-ID: <Dt45e.1764$9i7.1010@trnddc04>   JF Mezei wrote:R > Hoff Hoffman wrote:% > L >>  timekeeping as related to OpenVMS, as twice a year this newsgroup sees aA >>  barrage of various DST-related problems and problem reports.   >  > H > Interestingly, this year, the questions appeared well after the event. > Usually they happen before ! > F > It seems to me that VMS was quite late in implementing automated andB > systematic tize zone and tiem change handling and it was done inD > hodgepodge way. DECNET-5 seemd to have soemthing in it that did itF > automatically. Now, NTP seems broken and can't do it and needs to be' > shutdown while somethng else does it./  D NTP operates on UT.  It doesn't know anything about timezones or DSTD changes.  It calls system services to obtain the current system timeA in UTC, and after comparing it to the time as determined from its=4 servers, to fudge the time slightly forward or back.  C I think the reason people recommend shutting down NTP during DST/ST:C transitions, is the UTC time system services use the current system B clock (in local time) and the settings of the timezone logicals toC compute the correct fudge factor to convert from local time to UTC,SC and if NTP happens to ask "what time is it?" right in the middle of D the DST change, it might see the DST version of the timezone logicalB SYS$TIMEZONE_DIFFERENTIAL and before the clock has changed or vice> versa and think the clock is off by an hour and try to fix it.  @ (I haven't seen this happen, but expect it is possible.  If this. isn't the reason, someone please explicate :-)  C DTSS did both the synchronizing (as per NTP) and the DST changeoverP) (as per SYSGEN  param auto_dlight_sav=1).t  J > It would have been nice if there had been proper plannin from day 1 withH > one central clock keeping set of functions/database/logicals, and thatG > any other application, such as NTP would have been adapted to work on2N > that and rely on that not changing because it was done right from the start.  E Unfortunately, it's a little late for that!  I remember someone (from"H SLAC, maybe) ranting about VMS timekeeping at a DECUS or several DECUSesD (DECII?) in the early 80's.  I think he produced a whitepaper on theF subject, but I don't know if any of his suggestions were ever adopted.  J > And the system routines such as $GETIM could have had an extra parameterC > SYS$TIME_LOCAL, SYS$TIME_GMT and SYS$TIME_OFFSET which would haveaG > provided applications with one standard and consistent way to gettingU > the time they wanted.0 > J > When I coded message router gateway to SMTP, and from POP, I had to haveI > my own GMT offsets because those were not available at the time on VMS.eD > So twice a year, I need to update the configuration files on thoseI > applications and because I don't really know what is "stable" on VMS ingG > terms of timekeeping that I could use (and also how to trigger a time " > change event in an application).  D Given all above, for the first time in living memory, all my systemsB (VAX V7.3 and V7.1, Alpha V7.3-1 and V7.3-2, Macs, Unices (mostly D Solaris and Linux, but one DEC Unix Alpha), PC's, Tivo, cell phones,F etc. at home, work, customer sites (4 timezones) seem to have survivedG a DST change without any problems last Sunday.  (Except I forgot to seteE my watch forward and was 10 minutes late for a dentist appointment onSF Monday.  Urgh!  Fortunately, they were running late and didn't ding me for a missed appointment.)  A For the Alpha's, I've got all the TDF patches installed, disabledDA DTSS with "$ DEFINE/SYSTEM NET$DISABLE_DTSS 1" in SYLOGICALS.COM,wA enabled NTP (TCPWARE on some systems, TCP/IP services on others),t? and set "auto_dlight_sav=1" with sysgen (i.e. added the line to,; modparams.dat and autogen'ed and rebooted a long time ago.)<@ Didn't do anything special about NTP Sunday morning, maybe I got lucky.  : For the VAXen, Enabled DTSS in NET$CONFIGURE, added a line   $ mcr ncl disable dtss; to systartup_vms.com (after all the network startup stuff),t= which seems to stop the constant complaints about the lack oft< DTSS servers, but it still does the DST changes, enabled NTP> in the IP stack, and let it all seemed to work fine this year.( Again, I could have got lucky about NTP.  = This is probably a pretty small sample (5 Vaxes, 12 Alphas, 2S@ clusters, 11 stand-alone systems, 6 sites, 4 timezones, all US),? mix of VMS, UCX, TCP/IP services, TCPware versions), but it all  worked.   = BTW, NTP seems to be much easier to set up than it appears ate9 first sight.  If you go to the NIST site www.nist.gov, it,? sends you off to a University of MD site which supposedly listsc= public NTP servers and there are lots of scary warnings aboutg> getting permission and finding one that is near-by (in network> latency) and which will give you permission to use it, and all: the ones that seem to be open to all users also seem to be@ defunct!  Well, it turns out NTP servers are all over the place.A For example, at both work and at home I have Verizon DSL service,I= and all the Verizon DSL routers (the first hop after your DSLr@ modem) appear to be NTP servers.  (Learned this from a user postA on the Verizon users newsgroup and Verizon never contradicted it.i@ Never found it documented anywhere, though.)  Probably most ISPs@ do the same thing.  Most larger businesses will have one or more7 internal NTP servers with names like ntp.foocorp.com or.? ntp2.foocorp.com.  So if the network folks just ignore you when < you ask them about ntp, you can try guessing!  Also, lots of? DNS servers are also NTP servers.  You can test by telneting to6	 port 123.m  A Once you've found some NTP servers, then setting up your ntp.confh? file is trivial (intimidation number 2.)  All you need to do is,? lookup the IP addresses of the NTP servers (not sure why not to0; just use host names, but all mine are set up this way), andj@ add a line "server a.b.c.d" for each one.  This is all you need,; none of the other junk.  The NTP.CONF files are the same int> TCPWARE, UNIX, UCX, and HP TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS.  (Have? to convert to stream-LF for unix, but FTP does this for you...)l  ; If you have a large network you are responsible for, you'lls< probably want to set up some local servers, and sync all the< other systems from them, and it gets a lot more complicated,; (and you probably have network people to deal with it all),g? but for a small LAN or standalone system, this is all you need.a  < BTW, NTP doesn't produce any visible network or server load,; at least the way I've used it here.  Logically, it can't bee< any worse than a DNS hit (which most web browsers produce by= the hundreds or thousands), and the NTP server shouldn't evers@ have to hit its disk to determine the current time (unlike DNS),= and the NTP clients only do 2 or 3 packets every few minutes, < and as the times sync up, they do time checks  less and less often.     -- k John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 03:04:58 -0400c- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>dO Subject: Re: Which release notes say sts$manager:utc$configure_tdf  is obsolete B Message-ID: <1112857495.bbddccb4564a3b799c5223cac78ff3a3@teranews>   John Santos wrote:C > in UTC, and after comparing it to the time as determined from itse6 > servers, to fudge the time slightly forward or back.  H Fudge ? Wouldn't NTP simply set the time ? I think that it has somethingA about not handling large time differences and doing so in maximumeA increments until the time difference is small enough that a finalt adjustment is made.   H However, on other machines I have which are NTP aware, I just tell it to8 check against the NTP server once a day or at boot time.  9 Is there really a point in having NTP run continuously ? p  H I just do a NTPDAT once a week. I don't like to clutter SHOW SYSTEM with2 processes that hang around doing nothing all week.  F > Given all above, for the first time in living memory, all my systemsC > (VAX V7.3 and V7.1, Alpha V7.3-1 and V7.3-2, Macs, Unices (mostly F > Solaris and Linux, but one DEC Unix Alpha), PC's, Tivo, cell phones,H > etc. at home, work, customer sites (4 timezones) seem to have survived1 > a DST change without any problems last Sunday.    D Out of curiosity, how do large networks handle setting clocks on allC their routers during the time changes ? Are the CISCO routers smartfB enough to have the logic to determine the actual date/time of timeD changes each year ? Or must the network managers tell each router at# what date/time to make the change ?s  @ >> BTW, NTP seems to be much easier to set up than it appears at > first sight.    B I have mine setup but not configured. I just run ntpdat at regularG intervals to set the clock. Offset is always less than a second.  KISS.d  D BTW, MACs come pre-configured to an apple NTP server. That is reallyH neat in terms of professional packaging of an OS. (and has done so sinceD MAC OS 8.6). It is embedded in the time/date control panel, not someF totally separate application. (In VMS terms,  the NTP stuff as well asH timezone settings and DST seeting would all be done through the SET TIMED command, instead of having bits pand pieces in logical names, SYSGEN) parameters, config files, NTP config etc.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 08:12:43 GMT   From: John Santos <john@egh.com>O Subject: Re: Which release notes say sts$manager:utc$configure_tdf  is obsolete/* Message-ID: <%X55e.9018$pU5.2199@trnddc06>   JF Mezei wrote:  > John Santos wrote: > C >>in UTC, and after comparing it to the time as determined from its-6 >>servers, to fudge the time slightly forward or back. >  > J > Fudge ? Wouldn't NTP simply set the time ? I think that it has somethingC > about not handling large time differences and doing so in maximum@C > increments until the time difference is small enough that a final> > adjustment is made.:  C Well, ultimately something has to do a $SETIME to change the systemaA clock, but NTP is probably using unix system services (in UTC) tocB do it, and is relying on the C I/O library or some library that is@ part of the TCP/IP package to do it.  That's why I said "fudge".  C I think it will only attempt to change the clock if it is less than|C a few thousand seconds off (3600 seconds = 1 hour, I don't remember ? if the maximum discrepancy is deliberately less than an hour to A prevent it from trying to fix DST, or a little more than an hour,EA so it can fix the clock if the system manager set the clock wrongdA at boot time because he was using a DST watch after DST had endedtB or a ST clock just after the spring forward, and NTP would fix it.  A It does it by changing the clock in small intervals until it getso@ close, and then by smaller intervals until it gets closer, but IA don't know the actual algorithm.  I've also heard it described ase= making the clock run fast (if it is behind) or slow (if it is A ahead), rather than jumping the clock.  Maybe some systems can dos< this in their clock service, and it gets emulated on others.> (Like tell the clock service routine to skip one tick in every< 60 until it has skipped 150 seconds worth of ticks, if it isA running 150 seconds fast, or count 2 ticks instead of 1 tick once A every n ticks until it has advanced by 35.6 seconds if it is 35.6h@ seconds slow, and really do this if the clock service is capableA of it, but instead emulate this by adjusting the clock forward orO? back by a few milliseconds several thousand times if that's the > way you have to do it.)  Anyway, this is all speculation aboutA mechanisms... NTP slowly skews the system clock to match its bestsB guess of the real time that it makes from polling the time server.> (It uses the average round-trip response time to guess how old> the server's response was when it got it, so it can really get pretty accurate.)5    J > However, on other machines I have which are NTP aware, I just tell it to: > check against the NTP server once a day or at boot time. >   D A program I downloaded from NIST many years ago for my PC does that.B It just checks in at boot time and about once a day.  Whether thisA is good enough depends on how accurate your timing needs are, ande@ how good the clock in your system is.  I remember our VAX 11/780C was much worse than all our PDP11's, which had LTCs and were alwaysuC within a second, provided you set them correctly at boot time.  The ( VAX would drift several minutes a month.  ; > Is there really a point in having NTP run continuously ? e  @ Some apps really care about an accurate clock.  I think KerberosB is one of them.  (TCPWare won't let you enable its Kerberos client" unless you also have NTP enabled.)  J > I just do a NTPDAT once a week. I don't like to clutter SHOW SYSTEM with4 > processes that hang around doing nothing all week. >    Good enough for jazz.  ;-)   > F >>Given all above, for the first time in living memory, all my systemsC >>(VAX V7.3 and V7.1, Alpha V7.3-1 and V7.3-2, Macs, Unices (mostlyeF >>Solaris and Linux, but one DEC Unix Alpha), PC's, Tivo, cell phones,H >>etc. at home, work, customer sites (4 timezones) seem to have survived1 >>a DST change without any problems last Sunday. a >  > F > Out of curiosity, how do large networks handle setting clocks on allE > their routers during the time changes ? Are the CISCO routers smart D > enough to have the logic to determine the actual date/time of timeF > changes each year ? Or must the network managers tell each router at% > what date/time to make the change ?n >   C I doubt the routers care one whit about the time changes.  Maybe ifoE they are fancy enough, you can tell them what time zone (and timezoner@ rule) to use, and so they can display local time in there statusC screens, error reports, etc. but for routing, they don't care about.B the time at all, and if they are also local NTP servers, they just6 sync with a lower tier NTP server.  NTP is all in UTC.  = (Just in case someone doesn't know this and is confused by my : constant harping on UTC, UTC is Universal Coordinated Time; (French acronym, maybe?) and is the modern successor to GMT,A - Greenwich Mean Time.  It is the same everywhere (no timezones),i= and doesn't spring forward or fall back.  It just marches on. < I think many or all Unix systems keep their internal time in? UTC and just convert to or from local time for display purposesyB or for doing the equivalent of DIR/SINCE (i.e. the file timestamps= on the disks are all in UTC as well).  Maybe that's why these = things are so much harder to use on Unix and require separate > utilities (like find) instead of being built in to everything? (Gratuitous Unix slap ;-))   > @ >>>BTW, NTP seems to be much easier to set up than it appears at >> >>first sight. p >  > D > I have mine setup but not configured. I just run ntpdat at regularI > intervals to set the clock. Offset is always less than a second.  KISS.e > F > BTW, MACs come pre-configured to an apple NTP server. That is reallyJ > neat in terms of professional packaging of an OS. (and has done so sinceF > MAC OS 8.6). It is embedded in the time/date control panel, not someH > totally separate application. (In VMS terms,  the NTP stuff as well asJ > timezone settings and DST seeting would all be done through the SET TIMEF > command, instead of having bits pand pieces in logical names, SYSGEN+ > parameters, config files, NTP config etc.   E Yup, right now we have a firewall at work that prevents access to thesD the apple timeservers (I've been meaning to open this up), and if myC Powerbook has died because I forgot to shut it down and the batteryeE went dead (takes about 4 days in standby mode) it always forgets the  C time, and if I first plug it in at work, it can't talk to the applemG timeserver and thinks its New Year's Eve, Dec 31, 1969!  This is a painlD to fix, since I have to manually disable automatic time setting, setC the clock to the correct time (at least within a few minutes), shutyD down and reboot it, then (if I remember) change the timeserver to beA one of our local ones (inside the firewall.)  Then when I take ityA home, it can't talk to our work NTP server and gets snippy again.nD (You can change which NTP server it uses by typing its name into theB dialog box, and it will remember it, but it doesn't change serversB automatically when you change location, like it does most network-C related things (DNS servers, routers, etc.), and if you switch back E to one of the apple servers, it doesn't retain our work server in itsh= drop-down list, so to change back I need to type it in again.c  D I wonder if there is a problem with it that it forgets the time whenF the battery goes dead, or if this is normal?  Maybe they always figureB you'll either set the time manually or have access to one of their+ time servers, so this is expected behavior?e  ? To get back on topic to VMS, it sure could use some cleaning upe as you suggest.o       -- m John Santos6 Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 08:00:14 GMTL4 From: Mike Rechtman <michael.rechtman.nospam@hp.com>N Subject: Re: Which release notes say sts$manager:utc$configure_tdf is obsolete& Message-ID: <425512BC.5C57F740@hp.com>   tadamsmar@yahoo.com wrote: >  > JF Mezei wrote:  > > Hoff Hoffman wrote:mI > > >   timekeeping as related to OpenVMS, as twice a year this newsgroupe > sees aD > > >   barrage of various DST-related problems and problem reports.   <snipped...> > G > There is a TDF change event, but no nifty way to get advanced warningv > of > scheduled TDF changes.   $e $U $ show syst/noprocG OpenVMS V8.2  on node MIKE   7-APR-2005 10:51:49.89  Uptime  0 22:52:35u $i $ 2 $ @SYS$COMMON:[SYSMGR]UTC$TIME_SETUP.COM   "" SHOW   AUTO_DLIGHT_SAV is set to "1".? OpenVMS will automatically change to/from Daylight Saving Time.o- (in time zones that use Daylight Saving Time)n  6     LOCAL TIME ZONE          = ISRAEL -- DAYLIGHT TIME<     LOCAL SYSTEM TIME        =  7-APR-2005 10:51:59.75 (IDT)#     TIME DIFFERENTIAL FACTOR = 3:00n>     TIME ZONE RULE           = IST-2IDT-3,M4.1.5/02,M10.2.0/02H     Change IST to IDT on the First Friday of April (1-Apr-2005) at 02:00E     Change IDT to IST on the Second Sunday of October (9-Oct-2005) att 02:00r   $s $ < You could always parse SYS$TIMEZONE_RULE manually, I suppose   Mike -- bE ---------------------------------------------------------------------sE Usual disclaimer: All opinions are mine alone, perhaps not even that.t? Mike Rechtman                            *rechtman@tzora.co.il*:F Kibbutz Tzor'a.                          Voice (home): 972-2-9908337  B   "20% of a job takes 80% of the time, the rest takes another 80%"E ---------------------------------------------------------------------b -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----f Version: 3.1: GCM/CS d(-)pu s:+>:- a++ C++ U-- L-- W++ N++ K? w--- V+++$6 PS+ PE-- t 5? X- tv-- b+ DI+ D-- G e++ h--- r+++ y+++@ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------a   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Apr 2005 05:21:53 -0700 ' From: "tadamsmar" <tadamsmar@yahoo.com>0N Subject: Re: Which release notes say sts$manager:utc$configure_tdf is obsoleteC Message-ID: <1112876513.514553.166300@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>t   David J Dachtera wrote:. > Brad Hamilton wrote: > >C > > tadamsmar@yahoo.com wrote: > > > JF Mezei wrote:sF > > >>It seems to me that VMS was quite late in implementing automated and-F > > >>systematic tize zone and tiem change handling and it was done inE > > >>hodgepodge way. DECNET-5 seemd to have soemthing in it that did8 itG > > >>automatically. Now, NTP seems broken and can't do it and needs ton be+ > > >>shutdown while somethng else does it.s > > >dD > > > Does NTP really need to be shutdown?  I don't plan to do that. > > > @ > > > I have now set up my systems with AUTO_DLIGHT_SAV set to 1 > > >  > >oE > > I'm into this discussion quite late, and I apologize if I'm goinga over  > > ground previously unearthed. > > F > > I use NTP, AUTO_DLIGHT_SAV set to 1 in MODPARAMS.DAT, and TCPware. The-C > > following entries displayed on my console log this past Sunday:m > >l< > > %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM   3-APR-2005 03:00:00.24  %%%%%%%%%%%& > > Message from user SYSTEM on RABBIT@ > > %TDF-I-TDFSET, Summer time or standard time changeover - new0 > > SYS$TIMEZONE_DIFFERENTIAL=-14400/old=-18000. > > < > > %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM   3-APR-2005 03:00:49.99  %%%%%%%%%%%& > > Message from user SYSTEM on RABBITF > > %TCPWARE_NTP-I-DSTCHANGE, Clock will be stepped forward 60 minutes duea > > to daylight savingsi > > E > > Looks as though NTP, TCPware, and VMS did what I intended them toh do.  I; > > did not shut down NTP, and I see nothing "broken" here.n > F > It depends. If you need the time to change immediately, you may want to$ > have NTP "step aside" temporarily.   What do you mean by that?o  G In the past, I changed the TDF and the system time at the same time and- the-C time did change immediately.  Isn't that what the AUTO_DLIGHT_SAV=1i
 automates?  > If the time does not change immediately, then what does it do?  D And, if it does not hange immediately, then how does turning off NTP make a difference?   >- > > Of course, I'mB > > not using TCP/IP Services for VMS, so that may be the limiting	 factor inh > > this thread. >h4 > Behavior with Multinet seems to match UCX, AFAICT. >- > -- > David J Dachtera > dba DJE Systems  > http://www.djesys.com/ >s+ > Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:S$ > http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ >b* > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/o >r$ > Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/s >  > Coming soon:( > Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Apr 2005 09:12:05 -0500>; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)t6 Subject: Re: X-windows: changing cursor from and AST ?3 Message-ID: <AKBfEVGXMfQi@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  r In article <1112219312.6ff239a9957adc92052bbae698d71b5c@teranews>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > G > In an application which has a function which can either be instant or I > take a long time depending on size and type of contents, I'd like to beaI > able to trigger a busy X-windows cursor only if it is to take a certaint > amount of time.h > H > Since the loop is outside the X-events main loop, and since it usuallyF > executes rather quickly, would it be possible (knowing that the loopH > itself does not generate any X-windows updates to the display) to haveJ > an AST triggered by a timer say one second after start of loop to change > the cursor to a busy cursor ? , > (and possibly update cursor every second).  @    X11 routines are not AST reentrant.  We were able to call X11G    routines from AST in a system we did years ago only because no other E    X11 routines would be executing at the time.  You probably instead G    should use XtAppAddInput (or whatever it's name is now) to add a VMShG    event flag as an input, set the event flag from the AST, and connect @    the event flag to a callback routine that updates the cursor.  H    Don't use UNIX documentation for XtAppAddInput other than reading the8    line where it says that it's an OS-dependent routine.   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Apr 2005 09:22:47 -0500l; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)g Subject: Re: Zero IOSB statusJ3 Message-ID: <55FsOtnEYKQU@eisner.encompasserve.org>4  \ In article <3b2f8jF6brjobU1@individual.net>, Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com> writes: > D > In the case that I have been talking about, the Event Flag is mostA > definitely being set *before* the IOSB has been filled in.  I'mnB > almost suspecting that, since Ron Atkinson has mentioned Pascal,C > that he might even be talking about exactly the same thing.  Ron,r1 > does your workplace begin with the letter "R" ?r  E    Beware of event flags used by RMS.  They are documented somewhere..H    $SYNCH is a solution for shared event flags.  Since it was introduced*    the kernel does $QIOW as $QIO + $SYNCH.   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Apr 2005 17:50:24 +0100 6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)% Subject: [TCPIP V5.4 ECO4] SFTP rantsd, Message-ID: <425572e0$1@NEWS.LANGSTOEGER.AT>   <RANT>N Maybe I repeat myself, but I'd like to ask, can we have a better SSH/SFTP/SCP, please ?  6 1) SFTP doesn't exit with ^Z/F10 (in TCPware it does).H With F10 it brings spurious chars (1~), with ^Z it cries ** Interrupt **C It also has problems with command abbreviation and command recalls.nE It also has problems with prompt reappearance after a longer filelist 0 (you need to type a key to get the prompt back).  G 2) SFTP doesn't support ascii/auto/binary commands (in TCPware it does) : Is there no requirement to differentiate on VMS nowadays ?2 It also has no support for VMS file transfer mode.  I 3) SFTP doesn't support OpenVMS VAX (TCPIP V5.3 without SSH is the latest L or last for the VAX and, you guessed it, TCPware does support VAX with all).  @ 4) SFTP has a lot less supported commands (than in TCPware) likeF "buffersize", "debug", "delete", "directory", "status", "verbose", ...  J 5) SFTP "ls -l" doesn't list extended informations (like size, owner, ...)? though it is documented that it should !! (works OK in TCPware)r  H 6) SFTP "ls -R" tries to list all files as directories - giving messagesK "No such file or directory" (TCPware does list directories as [.directory])Q  G 7) Win32 App FILEZILLA doesn't list files from VMS/TCPIP via SFTP/SSH2.d4 Could be the "ls -l" problem or yet another problem.  A And the list goes on (eg. haven't talked about performance, yet). J (And I also haven't seen improvement in V5.5 yet, but I need to test more) </RANT>k  F Please consider paying some bucks to PSC and get a better toolset thanF continue porting yourself for yet another couple of years. Or at leastM coordinate with them so that we can run TCPWARE$SFTP2.EXE on top of TCPIP ;-)t   TIAi   -- a Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialistg E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.194 ************************