1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 30 Apr 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 239       Contents: Re: DEC/MMJ connectors Re: DEC/MMJ connectors Re: DEC/MMJ connectors Re: DEC/MMJ connectors Re: DEC/MMJ connectors, Re: Flash Card reader with VMS Now available% Re: FTP oddity for case sensitiveness % Re: FTP oddity for case sensitiveness % Re: FTP oddity for case sensitiveness % Re: FTP oddity for case sensitiveness % Re: FTP oddity for case sensitiveness - Re: How about a PCI DAQ card in an Alpha PWS? $ Re: Kill multiple processes by name?C Re: Lexical function to set environmental variables of AlphaStation C Re: Lexical function to set environmental variables of AlphaStation 8 Re: Maybe HP should get out of the hardware business....8 Re: Maybe HP should get out of the hardware business....8 Re: Maybe HP should get out of the hardware business....8 Re: Maybe HP should get out of the hardware business.... Re: OpenVMS License plates Re: Processor scheduling! Re: Replacing Shadowed Boot Drive ! Re: Replacing Shadowed Boot Drive $ Re: Sandia says alpha the best chip!$ Re: Sandia says alpha the best chip!$ Re: Sandia says alpha the best chip!$ Re: Sandia says alpha the best chip! Re: Setting up an NTP server Re: Setting up an NTP server Re: Syntax Highlighting  Re: Syntax Highlighting  Re: Syntax Highlighting  Re: Syntax Highlighting  Re: Syntax Highlighting  Re: Syntax Highlighting ! Re: TCPIP FTP Problem OpenVMS 7.3 ! Re: TCPIP FTP Problem OpenVMS 7.3 ! Re: TCPIP FTP Problem OpenVMS 7.3 ! Re: TCPIP FTP Problem OpenVMS 7.3 ! Re: TCPIP FTP Problem OpenVMS 7.3 ! Re: TCPIP FTP Problem OpenVMS 7.3  Re: TCPIP V5.5 on OpenVMS V8.2 TIMEZONE ETC. on OVMS 7.1-2  Re: TIMEZONE ETC. on OVMS 7.1-2 + Re: Unix - VMS compatible encryption method 5 Re: VMS equivalent of % xset fp+ directory_with_fonts + Re: What is Different or Special About VMS? + Re: What is Different or Special About VMS? + RE: What is Different or Special About VMS? + Re: What is Different or Special About VMS? + Re: What is Different or Special About VMS?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 01:01:26 GMT   From: John Santos <john@egh.com> Subject: Re: DEC/MMJ connectors ( Message-ID: <GNAce.550$db7.359@trnddc01>   GreyCloud wrote: > Dave Froble wrote: >  >>GreyCloud wrote: >>= >>>Does anyone know where I can get a 6-pin DEC/MMJ to female  >>>db25 cable?? 1 >>>I managed to acquire an unused VT420 terminal.  >> >>Location?  >> >  > > > Montana.  But it is the cable I need to connect the terminal > to the vlc with.  = You just need a plain-vanilla MMJ cable of appropriate length 9 and an adapater that others have mentioned.  (An H8571-C, 5 which I have connecting a VT420 to an old DS200 via a > much-too-long-for-RS232-but-it-works-anyway homemade cable, is( DB25F, which may be just what you need.)  > As far as I know, no one has ever manufactured a 1-piece cable< with MMJ at one end and DB25 at the other.  I have seen some@ with MMJ and DB9, but I think this was the old DEC MVII DB9, not, the PC-compatible DB9 used on newer systems.   --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 21:11:43 -0500 , From: "Meat Loaf" <julie.dayton@comcast.net> Subject: Re: DEC/MMJ connectors 0 Message-ID: <JuKdnZwUbPXCdO_fRVn-qQ@comcast.com>   John Santos wrote:   > GreyCloud wrote: > > Dave Froble wrote: > >  > > > GreyCloud wrote: > > > B > > > > Does anyone know where I can get a 6-pin DEC/MMJ to female > > > > db25 cable??6 > > > > I managed to acquire an unused VT420 terminal. > > >  > > > Location?  > > >  > >  > > @ > > Montana.  But it is the cable I need to connect the terminal > > to the vlc with. > ? > You just need a plain-vanilla MMJ cable of appropriate length ; > and an adapater that others have mentioned.  (An H8571-C, 7 > which I have connecting a VT420 to an old DS200 via a @ > much-too-long-for-RS232-but-it-works-anyway homemade cable, is* > DB25F, which may be just what you need.) > @ > As far as I know, no one has ever manufactured a 1-piece cable> > with MMJ at one end and DB25 at the other.  I have seen someB > with MMJ and DB9, but I think this was the old DEC MVII DB9, not. > the PC-compatible DB9 used on newer systems.  G I have an MMJ modular plug crimper and normally make the cable as a MMJ C to MMJ or MMJ to RJ45 and the use a DB25 adapter to modular.  Maybe C once or twice I've gone through the pain of MMJ to DB in one cable. G AMP makes the crimper and you purchase the die you want for it, such as  MMJ, RJ11, RJ45, etc.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 21:36:03 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> Subject: Re: DEC/MMJ connectors + Message-ID: <4272EF13.9306A481@comcast.net>    GreyCloud wrote: >  > David J Dachtera wrote:  > >  > > David J Dachtera wrote:  > > >  > > > GreyCloud wrote: > > > > B > > > > Does anyone know where I can get a 6-pin DEC/MMJ to female > > > > db25 cable??6 > > > > I managed to acquire an unused VT420 terminal. > > > J > > > There's actually an adapter for that. H-857x, I think. Many variantsJ > > > depending upon the pinout (DCE or DTE, DB25M or DB25F, etc.). H-8575N > > > sticks in my mind for some reason as a common one for use with terminals8 > > > that don't have MMJ jacks. Should be MMJ to DB25F. > > > L > > > See also "MOD-TAP" and Black Box whilst Googling, searching eBay, etc.	 > > > ...  > > K > > The one I use here says H8571-A on it. H8575-A had lots of filtering in B > > it for stray RF and such (Class B computing devices, I think). > ; > I should've said a male 6-pin DEC/MMJ plug connected to a 3 > cable that is connected to female db25 connector. = > The vaxstation vlc has the alternate port as a female 6-pin 3 > mmj that I'm trying to connect to the vt420 with.   F You would use an MMJ-to-MMJ "DECconnect" cable between the VLC and theG H8571-A. I have some, if you need. Then, connect the H8571-A to the VT.   E If you're using a VLC, and you're not using the DB25 connection for a F serial printer, hook your terminal up there, instead. Needs a DB25F to DB25F null-modem cable.    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 00:09:46 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>  Subject: Re: DEC/MMJ connectors 0 Message-ID: <11761885gqsi526@corp.supernews.com>   GreyCloud wrote:< > Does anyone know where I can get a 6-pin DEC/MMJ to female > db25 cable??0 > I managed to acquire an unused VT420 terminal.  H I'm thinking that you may be mistaken on what you need.  The VLC, if my E memory is any good, takes an MMJ.  VT-420s also accept up to 2 MMJs.  H This allows for two sessions on the terminal.  This capability can also = be provided by some (most) of the DECserver terminal servers.   F Unless I'm mistaken, you need a flat 6-conductor cable with an MMJ on G each end.  The MMJs are reversed, ie; one end with the tab up, and the  G tab down at the other end.  This flips xmit/recv, gnd/gnd, and DTR/DSR.   H I think there may have been an international model of the VT-420 with a  DB25 connection.   It's been a long time.  E If you need the MMJ cable, and cannot get it elsewhere, let me know.  K I've got all kinds of cables laying around.  The connectors and tools also.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 00:41:07 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  Subject: Re: DEC/MMJ connectors B Message-ID: <1114836040.baae9b612ef0d5eab8d78cb5ce5bb4c3@teranews>   Dave Froble wrote:M > I've got all kinds of cables laying around.  The connectors and tools also.   C Aren't you affaid someone might sue you if they trip over all those " cables you've left lying around ?    :-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 16:04:06 -0400 ? From: "David Turner, Island Computers US Corp" <david@hpaq.net> 5 Subject: Re: Flash Card reader with VMS Now available 9 Message-ID: <0owce.12029$lf2.6406@bignews6.bellsouth.net>   L We have tried both ODS2 and 5 - loaded and run VMS from the 512MB SD and 4GB Microdrive from IBM/Hitachi K The CFII Microdrive is a 3600RPM Disk so it''s a little slow but works just  fine. J The SD cards were fine if made by Lexar, but the Kodak 1GB we used did not
 cooperate.B Seems the Kodak card was a little old from what we could find out.  F The good thing about using this removable media is that is requires no drivers.4 If backing up to a SD card one has to mount/foreign.  I It is seen by VMS as a standard disk drive - as to wear levelling we have K contacted Kodak, SANdisk, lexar and IBM/Hitachi - nonone so far can tell us L whether the cards/drives support it - neither could they give us any printed) data on MTBF on either the cards or disks    Will keep everyone updated. H FYI  The vendor has given us a pretty hefty volume discount so the intro% price for the card reader will be $99      DT   --     David B Turner Island Computers US Corp 2700 Gregory St, Suite 180 Savannah GA 31404  Tel: 912 447 6622 X201 Skype ID: islandco Fax: 912 201 0402  Email: dbturner@icusc.com  Web: http://www.islandco.com% ===================================== < All orders are subject to the following terms and conditions. of sale. These should be read before ordering.% http://www.islandco.com/warranty.html   8 "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> wrote in message+ news:Y6SdnY9iq8R3N-zfRVn-tw@adelphia.com...  > Alphaman wrote: F > > Any possibility of a supported PCI-to-IDE interface card that this. > > could be plugged in to my AlphaServer 800? > ? > I use a USB card in my DS10.  I had to add it's PCI id to the H > sys$system:sys$user_config.dat.  An Adaptec USB model that was on sale- > just seemed to just work in another system.  > 9 > I do not think I paid more than $20 for either of them.  > H > > What file system is supported on the cards?  ODS-2 & -5? ODS-3 & -4? > G > On my HP Photosmart 7960 Printer, only FAT file system seems to work, / > and I have only done a mount/foreign on that.  > I > For my other low cost USB card readers, ODS-2 or 5 works in addition to < > FAT.  Of course I have only used 128MB CompactFlash media. > E > > Or can "PCDISK" type utilities be fooled into working with it for  > > reading/writing FAT16? > H > You might try the mtools on the Freeware disk.  I have not had time to yet. > = > > I can see where this would be useful for digital cameras,  > E > Most digital cameras seem to be able to be put in a mode where they I > appear as a FAT formatted disk.  The two HP ones that I have do, and if 6 > you can read FAT on VMS you can transfer the images. >  > -John  > wb8tyw@qsl.network > Personal Opinion Only    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 22:40:52 GMT * From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>. Subject: Re: FTP oddity for case sensitiveness2 Message-ID: <UJyce.4765$Ba3.1816@news.cpqcorp.net>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message< news:1114805265.6e641e349666e2772daf093075b1b593@teranews... > Chris wrote: > > ) > > "CD" is a 'standard' FTP syntax error = > > "SET DEF" (or "set def") is translated as a VMS extension  > C > The point is that if they bothered implementing CLI based command 
 > parsing,  H I doubt it.  I imagine the command input is first sent to a more-or-lessB "standard" UNIX routine to decode the arguments, and when it fails$ it then tries a VMS-style CLI parse.   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 18:06:42 -0500 (CDT) * From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda). Subject: Re: FTP oddity for case sensitiveness2 Message-ID: <05042918064271_2860027C@antinode.org>  * From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>  + > > > "CD" is a 'standard' FTP syntax error ? > > > "SET DEF" (or "set def") is translated as a VMS extension   D > [...]  I imagine the command input is first sent to a more-or-lessD > "standard" UNIX routine to decode the arguments, and when it fails& > it then tries a VMS-style CLI parse.  C    Sounds likely, but sub-optimal.  I haven't looked at all the DCL F format commands versus all the UNIX format commands, but if no one canH find any conflicts, I'd certainly vote for case-indifference.  The C RTLG seems to offer str[n]casecmp() these days, so it's hard to believe that   the coding effort would be huge.  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode-org     Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 23:25:40 GMT * From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>. Subject: Re: FTP oddity for case sensitiveness2 Message-ID: <Unzce.4768$2c3.4581@news.cpqcorp.net>  7 "Steven M. Schweda" <sms@antinode.org> wrote in message , news:05042918064271_2860027C@antinode.org..., > From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com> > - > > > > "CD" is a 'standard' FTP syntax error A > > > > "SET DEF" (or "set def") is translated as a VMS extension  > F > > [...]  I imagine the command input is first sent to a more-or-lessF > > "standard" UNIX routine to decode the arguments, and when it fails( > > it then tries a VMS-style CLI parse. > E >    Sounds likely, but sub-optimal.  I haven't looked at all the DCL H > format commands versus all the UNIX format commands, but if no one canJ > find any conflicts, I'd certainly vote for case-indifference.  The C RTLI > seems to offer str[n]casecmp() these days, so it's hard to believe that " > the coding effort would be huge. >   D I can think of a couple reasons not to.  But to me the best one is -E because it solves a non-problem which has no impact to the useability G or functionality of the product.  FTP provides two completely different B syntaxes  Posix and VMS.  Each functions correctly.  To change theD Posix syntax to be a blended Posix/VMS syntax by making the commandsC case insensitive only invites unintended complications.  Who knows, > Linux may implement a CD or BIN or PUT command that differs inB *nothing* but case - perverse - but this is UNIX/Posix/Linux where; delete() and Delete() can have two very different meanings.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 19:54:08 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> . Subject: Re: FTP oddity for case sensitivenessB Message-ID: <1114818831.5ad36c95c5ec4447569e1ce7c261204b@teranews>   FredK wrote:F > I can think of a couple reasons not to.  But to me the best one is -G > because it solves a non-problem which has no impact to the useability I > or functionality of the product.  FTP provides two completely different  > syntaxes  Posix and VMS.      H Point is that it doesn't seem efficient to have two separate portions of code to parse a command.    H You'd think they would have integrated this in the same portion of code.   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 22:07:06 -0500 (CDT) * From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda). Subject: Re: FTP oddity for case sensitiveness2 Message-ID: <05042922070624_2860027B@antinode.org>  * From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>  H > > > [...]  I imagine the command input is first sent to a more-or-lessH > > > "standard" UNIX routine to decode the arguments, and when it fails* > > > it then tries a VMS-style CLI parse. > > G > >    Sounds likely, but sub-optimal.  I haven't looked at all the DCL J > > format commands versus all the UNIX format commands, but if no one canL > > find any conflicts, I'd certainly vote for case-indifference.  The C RTLK > > seems to offer str[n]casecmp() these days, so it's hard to believe that $ > > the coding effort would be huge. > >  > F > I can think of a couple reasons not to.  But to me the best one is -G > because it solves a non-problem which has no impact to the useability I > or functionality of the product.  FTP provides two completely different D > syntaxes  Posix and VMS.  Each functions correctly.  To change theF > Posix syntax to be a blended Posix/VMS syntax by making the commandsE > case insensitive only invites unintended complications.  Who knows, @ > Linux may implement a CD or BIN or PUT command that differs inD > *nothing* but case - perverse - but this is UNIX/Posix/Linux where= > delete() and Delete() can have two very different meanings.   7    It's a weak argument, but the best so far.  However:   E       There are currently no UNIX FTP commands in any case other than 8       all-lower, and no particular reason to expect any.  >       One could (still pretty easily) check the list with caseA       sensitivity, and, upon failure to match, try again without.   F       This program runs on VMS, where users do not expect command case       to matter.  E    However squared, having just gotten a couple of FTP fixes done (in C spite of my own peon status), and a couple more FTP complaints into = consideration, this would not be my highest priority request.   H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode-org     Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 01:05:54 GMT " From: "Jon" <jwatmuff@bigpond.com>6 Subject: Re: How about a PCI DAQ card in an Alpha PWS?= Message-ID: <SRAce.33714$5F3.2022@news-server.bigpond.net.au>   K I have seen some of the costs and problems associated with formal software  E contracts and I was considering attempting a device driver more at a  G hobbyist level. However there are probably too many uncertainties: (1)  M identification of a commercial DAQ card with a "standard" PCI interface? (2)  M adequacy of documentation? at both PCI and specific card function levels (3)  7 response of manufacturer when problems are encountered?   M Nevertheless, the compelling fact is that low-cost high-performance hardware  K already exists and the power and functionality of harnessing this hardware  F with with OpenVMS would be outstanding compared to a PC-based system.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 21:39:47 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>- Subject: Re: Kill multiple processes by name? + Message-ID: <4272EFF3.C4D708F1@comcast.net>    DeanW wrote: > G > I've just had someone banging away, trying to break in via SSH. While G > I shut it off at the firewall (after 980 failures- just a couple past H > VMS setting intruder status, heh...), there are still a couple hundredF > dropped SSH processes that I wish I could clear out. Is there a toolF > that can kill a group of processes based on a wild-carded name, such > as TCPIP$SS_*?  / Here's some DCL I cooked up as a convenience...    $!7 $!      LPROC.COM -     25-Aug-2004 by David J Dachtera  $!@ $!      Perform operations on a list of processes whose PIDs areB $!      read from a pipeline. Use SHOW SYSTEM/PROCESS to generate > $!      a PID list, or filter SHOW SYSTEM output using SEARCH. $!= $!      Specify the required operation in P1. The default is   $!      "SHOW PROCESS" $!H $!---------------------------------------------------------------------- $!( $ if p1 .eqs. "" then p1 := show process $!
 $ set noon $read_loop:  $ read/end=eof_pipe sys$pipe p9 6 $ pid = f$elem( 0, " ", f$edit( p9, "trim,compress" )) $ tpid := %x'pid' * $ if f$type( tpid ) .eqs. "INTEGER" then - $ 'p1'/id=&pid $ goto read_loop
 $eof_pipe: $ exit   You would use it like so:   3 $ PIPE SHOW SYSTEM/PROCESS=TCPIP$SS_* | @LPROC STOP    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 20:32:01 -0500 , From: "Meat Loaf" <julie.dayton@comcast.net>L Subject: Re: Lexical function to set environmental variables of AlphaStation0 Message-ID: <LtmdnYrVbo-Mfe_fRVn-og@comcast.com>   Rudolf Wingert wrote:    > Hello, > F > AFAIK there is an undocumented lexical function to set environmental2 > variables. Does anybody know how it can be done? >  > TIA and regards R. Wingert  A   F$CONTEXT  F$CSID     F$CVSI     F$CVTIME   F$CVUI     F$DEVICE ;   F$DIRECTORY           F$EDIT     F$ELEMENT  F$ENVIRONMENT A   F$EXTRACT  F$FAO      F$FILE_ATTRIBUTES     F$GETDVI   F$GETJPI A   F$GETQUI   F$GETSYI   F$IDENTIFIER          F$INTEGER  F$LENGTH >   F$LOCATE   F$MESSAGE  F$MODE                F$PARSE    F$PIDA   F$PRIVILEGE           F$PROCESS  F$SEARCH   F$SETPRV   F$STRING 6   F$TIME     F$TRNLNM   F$TYPE     F$USER     F$VERIFY  A These are the only lexicals on my 6.2 and 7.3 Alpha's.  Was there 2 something that you were trying to do specifically?   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 21:33:13 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>L Subject: Re: Lexical function to set environmental variables of AlphaStation+ Message-ID: <4272EE69.52D18FA0@comcast.net>    Meat Loaf wrote: >  > Rudolf Wingert wrote:  > 
 > > Hello, > > H > > AFAIK there is an undocumented lexical function to set environmental4 > > variables. Does anybody know how it can be done? > >  > > TIA and regards R. Wingert > C >   F$CONTEXT  F$CSID     F$CVSI     F$CVTIME   F$CVUI     F$DEVICE = >   F$DIRECTORY           F$EDIT     F$ELEMENT  F$ENVIRONMENT C >   F$EXTRACT  F$FAO      F$FILE_ATTRIBUTES     F$GETDVI   F$GETJPI C >   F$GETQUI   F$GETSYI   F$IDENTIFIER          F$INTEGER  F$LENGTH @ >   F$LOCATE   F$MESSAGE  F$MODE                F$PARSE    F$PIDC >   F$PRIVILEGE           F$PROCESS  F$SEARCH   F$SETPRV   F$STRING 8 >   F$TIME     F$TRNLNM   F$TYPE     F$USER     F$VERIFY > C > These are the only lexicals on my 6.2 and 7.3 Alpha's.  Was there 4 > something that you were trying to do specifically?  C F$GETENV() is present all the way back to at least V7.2, but is not  documented in the on-line HELP.   C I'll have to find the address to TELNET to the V8.2 nodes on the HP G TestDrive cluster and check it out there. Dunno if F$SETENV() ever made  it into a production release.    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Apr 2005 18:52:05 -0700* From: "Alan Greig" <greigaln@netscape.net>A Subject: Re: Maybe HP should get out of the hardware business.... C Message-ID: <1114825925.325893.318220@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    JF Mezei wrote:    > A > To me, the common interfaces means even more the death of IA64.   > There's an excellent and fairly well balanced article "Whither	 Itanium?" = which Google Groups just offered to me as I read this thread. : http://www.internetnews.com/commentary/article.php/3501511   Short extract:E "And despite investing millions in its 64-bit Itanium platform, Intel G succumbed to the siren song of 64-bit x86 with new versions of its Xeon A server processors in June and the desktop Pentium 4 600 series in 	 February.   A So where does that leave vendors that cast their lot with Intel's / Itanium architecture? Recasting their approach.   F Granted, the faint praise we recently heard from partner vendors aboutF Intel's Itanium came during AMD's birthday bash to celebrate Opteron'sG two-year-old launch. Although it was all about AMD, it was hard to miss - the message between the lines about Itanium."    --  
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 22:36:19 -0400 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> A Subject: Re: Maybe HP should get out of the hardware business.... , Message-ID: <2JydnZ057Oa7cu_fRVn-ig@igs.net>   Alan Greig wrote:  > JF Mezei wrote:  >  >>B >> To me, the common interfaces means even more the death of IA64. > @ > There's an excellent and fairly well balanced article "Whither > Itanium?" ? > which Google Groups just offered to me as I read this thread. < > http://www.internetnews.com/commentary/article.php/3501511 >  > Short extract:G > "And despite investing millions in its 64-bit Itanium platform, Intel D > succumbed to the siren song of 64-bit x86 with new versions of itsH > Xeon server processors in June and the desktop Pentium 4 600 series in > February.     H There was a typo in the paragraph above.......it should read "billions".     --F OpenVMS - The never advertised operating system with the dwindling ISV base.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 21:49:13 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>A Subject: Re: Maybe HP should get out of the hardware business.... + Message-ID: <4272F229.353718BD@comcast.net>    John Smith wrote:  >  > Alan Greig wrote:  > > JF Mezei wrote:  > >  > >>D > >> To me, the common interfaces means even more the death of IA64. > > B > > There's an excellent and fairly well balanced article "Whither
 > > Itanium?" A > > which Google Groups just offered to me as I read this thread. > > > http://www.internetnews.com/commentary/article.php/3501511 > >  > > Short extract:I > > "And despite investing millions in its 64-bit Itanium platform, Intel F > > succumbed to the siren song of 64-bit x86 with new versions of itsJ > > Xeon server processors in June and the desktop Pentium 4 600 series in
 > > February.  > J > There was a typo in the paragraph above.......it should read "billions".  G I doubt Itanic could ever see the kind of sales volume it would take to F recoup the loss (some might call it an "investment", albeit misguided)E without Bill gates himself touting it on network TV 24 hours a day at F least four commercials per hour for not less than five calendar years.   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 23:14:13 -0400 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> A Subject: Re: Maybe HP should get out of the hardware business.... , Message-ID: <bPWdnSKz_NGVZe_fRVn-jA@igs.net>   David J Dachtera wrote:  > John Smith wrote:  >> >> Alan Greig wrote: >>> JF Mezei wrote:  >>>  >>>>D >>>> To me, the common interfaces means even more the death of IA64. >>> B >>> There's an excellent and fairly well balanced article "Whither
 >>> Itanium?" A >>> which Google Groups just offered to me as I read this thread. > >>> http://www.internetnews.com/commentary/article.php/3501511 >>>  >>> Short extract:C >>> "And despite investing millions in its 64-bit Itanium platform, E >>> Intel succumbed to the siren song of 64-bit x86 with new versions G >>> of its Xeon server processors in June and the desktop Pentium 4 600  >>> series in February.  >>? >> There was a typo in the paragraph above.......it should read  >> "billions". > F > I doubt Itanic could ever see the kind of sales volume it would take@ > to recoup the loss (some might call it an "investment", albeitC > misguided) without Bill gates himself touting it on network TV 24 G > hours a day at least four commercials per hour for not less than five  > calendar years.      It's a computer... It's a furnace..... # It's your very own steel smelter... L and now you too can have one in your very own home for the low, low price of only $5999.99*  I * 1 million tons of Bunker C required to generate sufficient electrity to & power this sucker, not included. YMMV.     --F OpenVMS - The never advertised operating system with the dwindling ISV base.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 14:17:16 -0700 ! From: Fred Bach <music@triumf.ca> # Subject: Re: OpenVMS License plates ( Message-ID: <4272A45C.7050806@triumf.ca>   Sue,  4   I personally liked the Integrity ones, but we must7   consider the audience.  You have to eliminate all the +   Integrity ones on a few basic principles:   3     because one has to be too much of an insider to      understand what it means,   /     because the hardware might change tomorrow,   2     because we're promoting software not hardware,  7     and because the cutesy quip would go right over the 7     heads of most readers and be immediately dismissed.       9   I really liked "OpenVMS- When you are done playing with ;   computers", but the word "playing" needs to be set off in :   italics so that people would cogitate on it for a while.  <   "OpenVMS - when downtime it not an option" is really good,8   but should have the "not" set off, perhaps in italics.  5   "OpenVMS really means Business" would be great with    "really" set off in italics.  4   or, how about something simpler and to the point -  '    "OpenVMS - simply the best OS!"   or   !    "OpenVMS - the best there is!"   8   But if I had to pick a favourite from the bunch below,8   it would be "OpenVMS - Hack-free and cool".  It's very7   cute, smart and techie.  You need the extra hyphen to 3   obey the rules of English for compound adjectives 6   (which far too many people do not understand), since    OpenVMS is not exactly "free".    4     fred bach  music@triumf.ca  Opinions are my own.  " susan_skonetski@hotmail.com wrote:  
 > Dear Folks,  > F > One thing is for sure the VMS folks are truly a creative bunch, fromE > the hundreds of suggestions I have managed to narrow it down to the I > ones that I could possibly do without offending trademarks, cultures or H > people and other companies (not mentioning names but blue screens wereF > mentioned a lot) which eliminated a huge percentage of them.  What II > would like to do is get the following list down to about 5 then put the @ > 5 on www.openvms.org and have folks vote.  If you see anythingF > seriously wrong with any of the suggestions below please let me knowH > and I will eliminate the choice.  Please send your feedback by Friday. > I > How to get them once we decide - Boot Camp (of course)  and I will make D > sure that they are in New Orleans as well as any OpenVMS Technical; > Update Day and then we will see what else comes along ;')  >  > Warm Regards as always,  > Sue  >  > ) > Always had integrity - Now on Integrity  > ( > Serious Computing for Serious Business > * > When you are done playing with computers >  > Safe and Secure  > ) > The Gold Standard in Cluster Technology  > % > Reliability, Security, Availability  >   > When downtime is not an option > % > My only Operating System Is OpenVMS  >  > I'd rather be running OpenVMS  >  > Run OpenVMS Ask me how >  > Hack free and cool > 4 > OpenVMS - Reliability measured in years, not tears > ( > OpenVMS - When security REALLY matters > # > OpenVMS -Now with added Integrity  >  > Solid, Secure, Savvy > " > Facing the future with Integrity >  > Your Money Rides on Us > $ > OpenVMS - The Bet Your Business OS >  > Integrity Matters  > # > OpenVMS - 100% uptime is possible  >  > OpenVMS - Drive Safe!  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 21:41:31 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>! Subject: Re: Processor scheduling + Message-ID: <4272F05B.CE4C8EC9@comcast.net>    that_guy wrote:  > F > mabey im looking in the wrong place but i cant find much informationP > could someone please give me a rundown (or a link) on VMS processor scheduling  H Search Amazon.com for book titles similar to "OpenVMS Internals and Data3 Structures". I believe the author is Ruth Goldberg.    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/o  " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/a   Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Apr 2005 11:01:45 -0700 From: bill@wcschmidt.com* Subject: Re: Replacing Shadowed Boot DriveA Message-ID: <1114794884.781817.4160@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>l  ! Sounds like to much work for me !i  C I would shut down the system the replace one of the old drives thena  	 b -fl 0,1  set startup_p1 "min" cont   after the system comes upP  ) backup/image/ignore=inter olddisk newdisk   / shutdown the system replace the other old drives   b -fl 0,1 newdisko set startup_p1 ""h cont  B after the system boots login and then mount a second member to the	 shadowsetn   Bill Schmidt   Chris wrote:A > OK, I can't count --- step 9 should read "6. above"   .....sighd >d >o1 > "Chris" <an.other@not_here.ca> wrote in message 6 > news:Ensce.13866$gA5.778961@news20.bellglobal.com...F > > You're going to a lot more trouble than I have in past situations:  > > 1.  Shutdown system normally3 > > 2.  Remove the secondary shadow (physical) unitt  > > 3.  Replace with larger unit > > 4.  Boot from CD-ROM7 > > 5.  Mount the primary shadow unit with /OVER=SHADOWIG > > 6.  Perform image backup of primary shadow unit to new, larger unit  > > 7.  Shutdown system 1 > > 8.  Remove old (small) unit from primary slotrA > > 9.  Replace with new (larger) unit just copied to in 5. above5# > > 10.  Leave secondary slot emptyO9 > > 11.  Reboot per normal from the primary physical unitS > >aB > > (an Analyze/Disk/Repair ahead of any of this is assumed -- the
 AUTOGEN isE > > purely your call as to whether you think the system needs tuning)r > >iG > > In my experience, at boot, the Shadow Server will read the location  of theF > > shadow unit from the primary (I think that's how it works), try to mount- > it,-F > > fail because it isn't there, and continue with nothing more than a
 > warning.B > > Once the system is up, put your 2nd new drive in the secondary slot,t? > > initialize it (to be cautious), then mount it into the boot:
 shadowset.E > > Depending on how full the drive is, an hour or so later, it'll be  up to-@ > > snuff.  This has worked in at least 3 instances in the past. > >u > > CM7 > > "Shawn" <shawnm1964@sbcglobal.net> wrote in messageuA > > news:1114781251.750555.105530@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com....
 > > > Hi All,e > > >iC > > > I have a 1000A 5/400 Alpha Server running OpenVMS 7.2-1 whichr	 currentlyiB > > > utilizes Disk Shadowing on all the drives including the boot drives.  > > >oG > > > The boot drive is  made up of  (2) 4.3GB shadowed disk drives.  Ib amF > > > going to replace both of these drives with (2) 9.1GB Disk Drives ande > > > re-enable shadowing. > > >5G > > > I would like to list the steps I plan to follow and see if any oft youdC > > > have any suggestions or corrections my plan.  I have no extra-	 drives tonF > > > copy the data from the system drives too, so I have to use a DLT TapeE > > > Drive.  The backup command I am going to use is backup and thenf restored > > > is my main concern.: > > >CA > > > 1.  Comment any scripts called from startup which mount any  disks.D > > > 2.  Modify the modparams.dat file and set SHADOW_SYS_DISK to 0@ > > > 3.  Run the following command autogen savparams setparams.# > > > 4.  Shutdown the application. ; > > > 5.  Show device/files to ensure all files are closed.rD > > > 6.  Run analyze/disk/repair to fix anything on the drive which could  > > > cause a problem.. > > > 7.  Dismount a member of the shadow set. > > > 8.  Shutdown the system ; > > > 9.  Boot from an OpenVMS 7.2-1 CD and enter DCL mode.aF > > > ***** These next steps I would appreciate your comments on******? > > > 10.  Mount one of the system drives:  mount/over=id dkb0:e0 > > > 11.  Backup the drive to tape as an image: back/image/log/ign=label  > > > dkb0: mka500:dkb0.sav/saveG > > > 12.  After the backup completes dismount the tape and disk drive:s dism > > > mka500: dism dkb0:6 > > > 13.  Shutdown the server and replace the drives.' > > > 14.  Boot again off the CD Drive. C > > > 15.  Mount the new drive to be restored too.  mount/for dkb0: > > > > 16. Restore Data from tape:  back/image/ign=label/verify > > > mka500:dkb0.sav dkb0:n@ > > > 17.  After the restore has finished dismount tape and disk drives.o6 > > > 18. Shutdown the system and then boot from dkb0:B > > > 19.  When server has come back up, modify startup scripts to mount: > > > drives as usual.@ > > > 20.  Modify modparams.dat file and set SHADOW_SYS_DISK = 1A > > > 21.  Run the following command autogen savparams setparams.  > > > 22.  Reboot the server.wD > > > 23.  After the server comes back up and all drives are mounted complete? > > > the final step of adding the 2nd drive to the shadow set. < > > > mount/system/noassist DSA0:/shadow=($1$dkc0:) ALPHASYS > > >V@ > > > Let me know if you see anything I need to change or modify > > >x > > > Thanks in advance  > > > Shawnn > > >t > >n > >D   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 21:00:45 -0500r, From: "Meat Loaf" <julie.dayton@comcast.net>* Subject: Re: Replacing Shadowed Boot Drive0 Message-ID: <uvSdnWDetsdQe-_fRVn-ug@comcast.com>   Chris wrote:  A > OK, I can't count --- step 9 should read "6. above"   .....sigh  >  > 1 > "Chris" <an.other@not_here.ca> wrote in message 6 > news:Ensce.13866$gA5.778961@news20.bellglobal.com...F > > You're going to a lot more trouble than I have in past situations:  > > 1.  Shutdown system normally3 > > 2.  Remove the secondary shadow (physical) unite  > > 3.  Replace with larger unit > > 4.  Boot from CD-ROM7 > > 5.  Mount the primary shadow unit with /OVER=SHADOWMG > > 6.  Perform image backup of primary shadow unit to new, larger unitu > > 7.  Shutdown systemH1 > > 8.  Remove old (small) unit from primary slotuA > > 9.  Replace with new (larger) unit just copied to in 5. above # > > 10.  Leave secondary slot emptyB9 > > 11.  Reboot per normal from the primary physical unit  > > B > > (an Analyze/Disk/Repair ahead of any of this is assumed -- theB > > AUTOGEN is purely your call as to whether you think the system > > needs tuning)P > > G > > In my experience, at boot, the Shadow Server will read the locationtF > > of the shadow unit from the primary (I think that's how it works), > > try to mount > it,-F > > fail because it isn't there, and continue with nothing more than a
 > warning.H > > Once the system is up, put your 2nd new drive in the secondary slot,? > > initialize it (to be cautious), then mount it into the bootnA > > shadowset.  Depending on how full the drive is, an hour or so ? > > later, it'll be up to snuff.  This has worked in at least 3a > > instances in the past. > >  > > CM7 > > "Shawn" <shawnm1964@sbcglobal.net> wrote in messagesA > > news:1114781251.750555.105530@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...e
 > > > Hi All,a > > > C > > > I have a 1000A 5/400 Alpha Server running OpenVMS 7.2-1 whicheG > > > currently utilizes Disk Shadowing on all the drives including theJ > > > boot drives. > > > G > > > The boot drive is  made up of  (2) 4.3GB shadowed disk drives.  I B > > > am going to replace both of these drives with (2) 9.1GB Disk% > > > Drives and re-enable shadowing.  > > > G > > > I would like to list the steps I plan to follow and see if any of G > > > you have any suggestions or corrections my plan.  I have no extrasF > > > drives to copy the data from the system drives too, so I have toD > > > use a DLT Tape Drive.  The backup command I am going to use is1 > > > backup and then restore is my main concern.I > > > H > > > 1.  Comment any scripts called from startup which mount any disks.D > > > 2.  Modify the modparams.dat file and set SHADOW_SYS_DISK to 0@ > > > 3.  Run the following command autogen savparams setparams.# > > > 4.  Shutdown the application.-; > > > 5.  Show device/files to ensure all files are closed. D > > > 6.  Run analyze/disk/repair to fix anything on the drive which > > > could cause a problem.. > > > 7.  Dismount a member of the shadow set. > > > 8.  Shutdown the systemy; > > > 9.  Boot from an OpenVMS 7.2-1 CD and enter DCL mode.-F > > > ***** These next steps I would appreciate your comments on******? > > > 10.  Mount one of the system drives:  mount/over=id dkb0:r0 > > > 11.  Backup the drive to tape as an image:9 > > > back/image/log/ign=label dkb0: mka500:dkb0.sav/save G > > > 12.  After the backup completes dismount the tape and disk drive:e > > > dism mka500: dism dkb0:c6 > > > 13.  Shutdown the server and replace the drives.' > > > 14.  Boot again off the CD Drive.iC > > > 15.  Mount the new drive to be restored too.  mount/for dkb0: > > > > 16. Restore Data from tape:  back/image/ign=label/verify > > > mka500:dkb0.sav dkb0:iH > > > 17.  After the restore has finished dismount tape and disk drives.6 > > > 18. Shutdown the system and then boot from dkb0:H > > > 19.  When server has come back up, modify startup scripts to mount > > > drives as usual.@ > > > 20.  Modify modparams.dat file and set SHADOW_SYS_DISK = 1A > > > 21.  Run the following command autogen savparams setparams.r > > > 22.  Reboot the server.eD > > > 23.  After the server comes back up and all drives are mountedH > > > complete the final step of adding the 2nd drive to the shadow set.< > > > mount/system/noassist DSA0:/shadow=($1$dkc0:) ALPHASYS > > > @ > > > Let me know if you see anything I need to change or modify > > >  > > > Thanks in advance: > > > Shawns > > >  > >  > >   G The other two replys are both correct and as long as you first take onebD old disk and set it aside you should feel pretty safe.  I personallyF would stay away from starting out with the autogen because you may end@ up tuning something that might make you think your new disk is a problem.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 14:01:17 -0400P$ From: "Chris" <an.other@not_here.ca>- Subject: Re: Sandia says alpha the best chip! : Message-ID: <QDuce.13927$gA5.791955@news20.bellglobal.com>  H  ...... and the Sony BetaMax was a far superior VCR, but lost out in theI mass market for many of the same reasons that Alpha / OpenVMS does (cost,IG support from 3rd-parties,  "good-enough" cheaper alternatives).  CompaqpL never figured out what they had or how to utilize it; HP never really wantedF the chip to succeed -- it was seen as competition to their "strategy",J wasn't the business they thought they should be in, and CPQ agreed to killK it as a pre-cursor to the buy-out. (of course, there was NO collusion, why,l' that would have been illegal .... rofl)u  J The REAL worrisome part is that Itanic trails in all accounts, and doesn'tL appear to be gaining ground despite the best efforts of the Alpha engineers.  H From an OpenVMS perspective, I was told in confidence some time ago that= quite a bit of effort went in to making the VAX-to-Alpha porttF hardware-independent, and the Alpha-to-Itanium port would take it even@ further, making an 8086-64 port "relatively easy" (not my words)  J Where is the Opteron-port that could pull everyone's (except Intel)  bacon out of the impending fire?  
 just my $0.02:   CM  & <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message= news:1114795971.045452.130850@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...-I > the following quotes are from this sandia pdf ... after looking at thiseD > it now makes now sense except either blatent stupidity or NIH (not> > invented here) syndrome that HP chose itanium over alpha ... >'D > www.cs.sandia.gov/PublicationsPresentations/2004/CCPE03-Sandia.pdf >x	 > Page 15  > B > "In any case, as discussed in Section 3 below, these and similarI > considerations led us to rank the processor choices for Red Storm basedoC > on effectiveness for our design, ignoring cost for the moment, as 
 > follows. >e > 1. HP Alpha EV7  > 2. AMD Opteron# > 3. Intel Pentium-4 and AMD Athlonr > 4. IBM Power-4 > 5. Intel Itanium IIm >mG > When we take into account performance relative to price, this rankingi > changes somewhat:  >0 > 1. AMD Opteron# > 2. Intel Pentium-4 and AMD Athlone > 3. HP Alpha EV7. > 4. IBM Power-4 > 5. Intel Itanium II" >  > Page 6 > C > "HP continues to sell the alpha ES-45 clusters formerly developed F > by Compaq.  However, they have not announced plans to build clusters8 > based on the alpha EV7 processor, the Compaq-developedC > replacement for the EV68, and one of the best-balanced processors-4 > developed since the early Cray vector processors." >d > Page 14-15 >UF > "alpha EV7 tops both the absolute and the relative performance list,6 > since the EV7 has by far the highest memory bandwith >r   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Apr 2005 11:49:28 -0700* From: "Alan Greig" <greigaln@netscape.net>- Subject: Re: Sandia says alpha the best chip!-C Message-ID: <1114800568.835483.295860@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>u   Chris wrote:  E > From an OpenVMS perspective, I was told in confidence some time ago- that? > quite a bit of effort went in to making the VAX-to-Alpha portKC > hardware-independent, and the Alpha-to-Itanium port would take iti evenB > further, making an 8086-64 port "relatively easy" (not my words) >hE > Where is the Opteron-port that could pull everyone's (except Intel)C bacond > out of the impending fire?  E Intel would be happy to see a port as it would run just fine on theiroD future super Xeons which some of the ex Alpha engineers are probably now working on.    -- e
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Apr 2005 15:30:14 -0500/ From: brooks@cuebid.zko.dec.nospam (Rob Brooks)t- Subject: Re: Sandia says alpha the best chip!d- Message-ID: <fEXULRG7bzMw@cuebid.zko.dec.com>    > Chris wrote: > J > From an OpenVMS perspective, I was told in confidence some time ago that? > quite a bit of effort went in to making the VAX-to-Alpha port H > hardware-independent, and the Alpha-to-Itanium port would take it evenB > further, making an 8086-64 port "relatively easy" (not my words)  J If it was told "in confidence", why are you now dishonouring that request?   -- a  M Rob Brooks    VMS Engineering -- I/O Exec Group     brooks!cuebid.zko.dec.como   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Apr 2005 15:54:21 -0700 From: bob@instantwhip.com - Subject: Re: Sandia says alpha the best chip!nC Message-ID: <1114815261.218174.317450@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>s   yes, they probably are ... :)n  ) http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=22870    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 15:49:21 -0400)2 From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com>% Subject: Re: Setting up an NTP servera. Message-ID: <42725781.1276.1110D070@localhost>  + On 29 Apr 2005 at 12:54, Dave Froble wrote:RG > Now if I could only figure out how to get the Windows 2000 systems toc  > read the time from the server.  . Check out article 223184 for registry entries:  5 http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-  us;223184&sd=techa  @ I have my Winboxen synched to a Linux system, but it's the same  thing...  
 --Stan Quayle  Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------- Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363 3 8572 North Spring Ct., Pickerington, OH  43147  USAm0 stan-at-stanq-dot-com       http://www.stanq.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 00:30:40 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>r% Subject: Re: Setting up an NTP server)0 Message-ID: <11762fbsval1u8b@corp.supernews.com>   Rob Brown wrote:) > On Fri, 29 Apr 2005, Dave Froble wrote:e > I >> Now if I could only figure out how to get the Windows 2000 systems to  ! >> read the time from the server.  >  >  > Off-topic now, but:d >  > Open a DOS window: >  > C\> NET TIME /HELP > C\> NET TIME /SETSNTP mumble > . > Seems to work on the W2K system I have here. >  >   H Yeah, I've been told this before.  I've never been able to verify if it E works.  Don't know if it's a one-time setting.  I'd want the windows iG boxes to continuously follow the time broadcasting system.  It doesn't t seem to work for me.  / Anybody know where to get decent documentation?    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Roadc Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 17:48:47 +0000 (UTC)x% From: Dan Foster <usenet@evilphb.org>k  Subject: Re: Syntax Highlighting6 Message-ID: <slrnd74t1l.8r0.usenet@gaia.roc2.gblx.net>  Z In article <l%tce.4738$FZ2.4462@news.cpqcorp.net>, John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com> wrote: > K > No, LSE provides COBOL templates to help you write COBOL, but it doesn't rH > know how to take existing COBOL, parse it, and highlight the language  > keywords.   B I should point out that another text editor with a VMS port (worksC great) has significant syntax highlighting support for a variety of G languages -- VIM. Google search indicates that it supports COBOL syntaxa
 highlighting.e  H Another possibility might be, if one is wedded to something that sits on- top of TPU, to perhaps write a TPU extension?    -Dan   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 18:05:33 GMTf* From: "Meg Garrison" <meg.garrison@hp.com>  Subject: Re: Syntax Highlighting2 Message-ID: <NHuce.4745$D%2.2322@news.cpqcorp.net>  G We actually just released the Cobol module this week!  So, it's at the   address Nigel provided.   H We also have Distributed Netbeans, if you'd rather run NetBeans on your B non-VMS desktop (say, a PeeCee or Linux machine).  The version of M Distributed NetBeans that has Cobol syntax highlighting will be available in u mid-May.  
 Meg Watson Live from blustery Nashua, NHe  / "Nigel Barker" <nigel@hp.com> wrote in message .2 news:u57471p69u9s5gsv407gkh4kkpnlh0cfhf@4ax.com...@ > On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 09:05:25 +0200, "Mark Vilstrup Svanesteen"" > <mark.svanesteen@mail.dk> wrote: >a >>Hi group,lH >>Is there any way to get syntax highlighting, say for COBOL in OpenVMS? >nJ > Should be in Netbeans real soon now. Already there for Fortran, C, C++.  > Take a
 > look at F > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/ips/netbeans/modules.html >e > -- > Nigel Barker" > Live from the sunny Cote d'Azur    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 14:50:14 -0400e& From: Jilly <jilly@clarityconnect.com>  Subject: Re: Syntax HighlightingB Message-ID: <1114800572.c24e311145a6ea3565bf56ebbb482445@teranews>   John Reagan wrote:   > Dr. Dweeb wrote:" >> Mark Vilstrup Svanesteen wrote: >> < >>>Hi group,I >>>Is there any way to get syntax highlighting, say for COBOL in OpenVMS?4 >> F >> 7 >> LSE ? >> t >>   > J > No, LSE provides COBOL templates to help you write COBOL, but it doesn'tG > know how to take existing COBOL, parse it, and highlight the languageo > keywords.  >    I believe that VIM will do it.   -- rB Jilly - Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley, Waverly, NYF       - jilly@stny.rr.com                http://home.stny.rr.com/jillyE       - mark.jilson@hp.com               http://www.hp.com/go/openvmsk;       - http://www.jilsonracing.com      Go Fast, Turn LeftAC       - http://www.chemungspeedrome.com  Door Handle to Door Handlet   ------------------------------   Date: 29 Apr 2005 19:33:51 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)  Subject: Re: Syntax Highlighting, Message-ID: <3dfggvF6uh7n8U2@individual.net>  6 In article <slrnd74t1l.8r0.usenet@gaia.roc2.gblx.net>,( 	Dan Foster <usenet@evilphb.org> writes:\ > In article <l%tce.4738$FZ2.4462@news.cpqcorp.net>, John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com> wrote: >>L >> No, LSE provides COBOL templates to help you write COBOL, but it doesn't I >> know how to take existing COBOL, parse it, and highlight the language s >> keywords. > D > I should point out that another text editor with a VMS port (worksE > great) has significant syntax highlighting support for a variety of  > languages -- VIM.   9 A VI clone.  Heresey, heresy.  Bring on the inquisition. e  D     It shouldn't be necessary, but here it is, just n case---->  :-)   bill   -- lJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   5   ------------------------------   Date: 29 Apr 2005 19:35:13 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)  Subject: Re: Syntax Highlighting, Message-ID: <3dfgjhF6uh7n8U3@individual.net>  B In article <1114800572.c24e311145a6ea3565bf56ebbb482445@teranews>,) 	Jilly <jilly@clarityconnect.com> writes:l > John Reagan wrote: >  >> Dr. Dweeb wrote:d# >>> Mark Vilstrup Svanesteen wrote:t >>> 
 >>>>Hi group,IJ >>>>Is there any way to get syntax highlighting, say for COBOL in OpenVMS? >>>  >>> 	 >>> LSE ?N >>>  >>>  >> XK >> No, LSE provides COBOL templates to help you write COBOL, but it doesn'tGH >> know how to take existing COBOL, parse it, and highlight the language >> keywords. >>   >   > I believe that VIM will do it.   0 Another heretic!!!  What's this group coming to?   bill3 [Can oyu tell it's almost quiting time on Friday!!]    --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   :   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 15:21:47 -0500 (CDT) * From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda)  Subject: Re: Syntax Highlighting2 Message-ID: <05042915214762_2860027B@antinode.org>  G    Not to be a whiner or anything, but who thought that this was a goodd idea in VIM (MAIN.C)?:               /*N              * VMS only uses upper case command lines.  Interpret "-X" as "-x"!              * and "-/X" as "-X".               */   D    Yuck.  I was perfectly content with my old VIM 5.7, saying thingsF like "-R", but this topic led me to update to the latest, 6.3-46, withB which I got a lot of complaints like "E305: No swap file found for@ XXX.XXX", because it was now treating "-R" (read-only) (WITH the# quotation marks) as "-r" (recover).   D    In fact, with a bit of code stolen from Info-ZIP work (and almostF everywhere else I've been, it now seems), it's easy enough on a recentG non-VAX system to get the command-line case preserved with SET PROCESSS F /PARSE_STYLE = EXTENDED, obviating all the fooling around.  Time for a new MAKE_VMS.MMS option?  E    Also, OPTION.C needed a type cast to compile without warnings.  IfeE anyone else cares, let me know.  (The details have scrolled away, but-C there seemed to be a bunch of implicit-function info messages, too,fF which might go away with more #include directives.  And the source kit+ had two different MAKE_VMS.MMS files, too.):  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode-org-    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 19:39:27 -0500y, From: "Meat Loaf" <julie.dayton@comcast.net>* Subject: Re: TCPIP FTP Problem OpenVMS 7.30 Message-ID: <nIWdnRrrpKIiTu_fRVn-og@comcast.com>  F Also I noticed today if you enter "$ tcpip show services" FTP shows upC as disabled, but when we ran the network config we installed it andtF enabled it.  Also performed a manual "$ tcpip enable service FTP".  IfD you invoke the tcpip$ftp_shutdown and then tcpip$ftp_Startup it saysG that it starts and enables the service.  Don't really understand what's . not happening.  Any help would be appreciated.   Thanks,v Donn       Meat Loaf wrote:  H > I have been running OpenVMS on an AlphaServer 2100 for about two yearsD > and have not had any problems.  And by the way it is a pretty busyD > system running several Sybase 11 databases and the last reboot wasB > after a scheduled PM.  The system had been up for over 200 days. > E > Anyway I recently purchased an Alpha XP900 to replace one of my oldAH > Alpha 200 4/233 workstations.  I installed OpenVMS 7.3 on this box andG > I have not been able to get the FTP Server to accept a connection.  I-F > have compared account settings, tcpip configs and file ownership andD > protection between the two Alpha's, but the XP900 FTP Server has a
 > problem. > . > The following is what I get in the log file: >  >  > $ type *.log > % > DKA:[TCPIP$FTP]TCPIP$FTP_RUN.LOG;57t > ? > %SYSTEM-F-NOPRIV, insufficient privilege or object protectiontD > violation   TCPIP$FTP    job terminated at 27-APR-2005 12:34:14.26 >  >   Accounting information: F >   Buffered I/O count:                 31      Peak working set size: > 1408B >   Direct I/O count:                   24      Peak virtual size: > 168064@ >   Page faults:                       181      Mounted volumes: > 0wE >   Charged CPU time:        0 00:00:00.03      Elapsed time:       0i
 > 00:00:00.18  > $  > 8 > Not sure what's wrong.  Any help would be appreciated. >  > Done   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 20:58:44 -0400h- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>-* Subject: Re: TCPIP FTP Problem OpenVMS 7.3B Message-ID: <1114822707.d889ba10e67018b45efafc14216d3973@teranews>   Meat Loaf wrote: > H > Also I noticed today if you enter "$ tcpip show services" FTP shows upE > as disabled, but when we ran the network config we installed it andi > enabled it.     F The TCPIP software will disable a service if it finds that its startupD has failed a number of times. So if your FTP software still fails to6 start due to file protection problems, this is normal.  E When a service is enabled, if a process hasn't taken control over they@ specified port, the TCPIP services software starting at 5.3 willJ automatically start a process when there is an incoming call to that port.  E So disabling the service is fair if the TCPIP stack has realised thatc) the process fails whenever it is started.0   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 20:00:43 -0500., From: "Meat Loaf" <julie.dayton@comcast.net>* Subject: Re: TCPIP FTP Problem OpenVMS 7.30 Message-ID: <mr6dnUYQUo8mRe_fRVn-rQ@comcast.com>   JF Mezei wrote:,   > Meat Loaf wrote:' > > DKA:[TCPIP$FTP]TCPIP$FTP_RUN.LOG;57t > > A > > %SYSTEM-F-NOPRIV, insufficient privilege or object protectiontF > > violation   TCPIP$FTP    job terminated at 27-APR-2005 12:34:14.26 >  > do a > $TCPIP > TCPIP> SHOW SERV FTP /FULL > # > The username should be TCPIP$FTP,/  F When I do this it shows the username not defined and service disabled.A I tried doing a tcpip set service ftp /username=tcpip$ftp, but ity* responded with a configuration file error.  @ There is an account for TCPIP$FTP and the directory and files on? DKA0:[TCPIP$FTP] are all owned by this account.  They also haveo; world:re and the Sys$system:tcpip$ftp_run.com has world:re.e% Sys$manager:sylogin.com has world:re.G    C > tryng to run TCPIP$FTP_RUN.COM with output to the file you showed> > above. > 3 > You then exit, and do a DIR/SEC  DISK:[TCPIP$FTP]e > F > There should be a login.com owned by TCPIP$FTP and the logfiles also > owned by TCPIP$FTP > D > If you do a DIR/SEC DISK:[000000]TCPIP$FTP.DIR that should also be > owned by TCPIP$FTP > G > Now, the next thing is that TCPIP$FTP user must be able to access thepD > files in SYS$SYSTEM, notably TCPIP$FTP_RUN.COM and the executables > within it. > G > Since you're not getting anything in your log file, it is likely thathG > it wasn't even able to access the FTP_RUN.COM file. You might wish to + > check its security. It should be world:RE  > G > You may with to edit t he login.com in the TCPIP$FTP directory to SETs7 > VERIFY, and add a few commands such as SHOW PROC/ALL.  > F > This way, when TCPIP SERVICES next attempts to start the FTP server,3 > you'll have more information logged to that file.o  D I will try the set verify next in the command procedure, but I thinkF maybe the no username and disabled might be the root problem.  I'm not sure how to fix these.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 21:05:48 -0400v- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>9* Subject: Re: TCPIP FTP Problem OpenVMS 7.3B Message-ID: <1114823138.522037025b36dbc767f2c5819a999aa5@teranews>   Meat Loaf wrote:H > When I do this it shows the username not defined and service disabled.C > I tried doing a tcpip set service ftp /username=tcpip$ftp, but it:, > responded with a configuration file error.  D You may want to do a TCPIP SET NOSERVICE FTP to delete it, and then F @SYS$MANAGER:TCPIP$CONFIG and go through the menus to recreate the FTP server service.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 20:20:41 -0500 , From: "Meat Loaf" <julie.dayton@comcast.net>* Subject: Re: TCPIP FTP Problem OpenVMS 7.30 Message-ID: <ccKdnaCtrMD0QO_fRVn-gA@comcast.com>   JF Mezei wrote:    > Meat Loaf wrote: > > G > > Also I noticed today if you enter "$ tcpip show services" FTP shows F > > up as disabled, but when we ran the network config we installed it > > and enabled it.  - > H > The TCPIP software will disable a service if it finds that its startupF > has failed a number of times. So if your FTP software still fails to8 > start due to file protection problems, this is normal. > G > When a service is enabled, if a process hasn't taken control over theeB > specified port, the TCPIP services software starting at 5.3 willF > automatically start a process when there is an incoming call to that > port.M > G > So disabling the service is fair if the TCPIP stack has realised that + > the process fails whenever it is started.e  D When I do a "$spawn/nowait @sys$system:tcpip$ftp_run", I was able toC then do a "$ ftp localhost" and it asked for a login and worked.  I G didn't see any log file show up this time in dka0:[tcpip$ftp].  I triedeB putting a "$ set verify" in the login.com there, but again when it4 failed I received no log?  So I tried the following:   $ @tcpip$ftp_shutdown 1 %TCPIP-I-SERVSTOPPED, FTP service already stopped  %TCPIP-I-INFO, service disabled $ %TCPIP-I-INFO, logical names deleted? %TCPIP-I-INFO, image SYS$SYSTEM:TCPIP$FTP_CHILD.EXE deinstalledb@ %TCPIP-I-INFO, image SYS$SYSTEM:TCPIP$FTP_SERVER.EXE deinstalled/ %TCPIP-S-SHUTDONE, TCPIP$FTP shutdown completedn' $ tcpip set service ftp /user=tcpip$ftpe? %TCPIP-I-INFOADDED, TCPIP$SERVICE information added to databasehB -TCPIP-W-SERVDEFWARN, service does not have standard configuration $ tcpip enable service ftp' $ tcpip set service ftp /user=tcpip$ftpa? %TCPIP-I-INFOADDED, TCPIP$SERVICE information added to databaseiB -TCPIP-W-SERVDEFWARN, service does not have standard configuration $ @tcpip$ftp_startup= %TCPIP-I-INFO, image SYS$SYSTEM:TCPIP$FTP_CHILD.EXE installeda> %TCPIP-I-INFO, image SYS$SYSTEM:TCPIP$FTP_SERVER.EXE installed$ %TCPIP-I-INFO, logical names created %TCPIP-I-INFO, service enabled/ %TCPIP-S-STARTDONE, TCPIP$FTP startup completedy  C Now it still fails with the same error, connection refused, but for ( some reason it quit giving me log files?   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 20:34:22 -0500 , From: "Meat Loaf" <julie.dayton@comcast.net>* Subject: Re: TCPIP FTP Problem OpenVMS 7.30 Message-ID: <LtmdnYXVbo8Dfe_fRVn-og@comcast.com>   JF Mezei wrote:    > Meat Loaf wrote: > > G > > Also I noticed today if you enter "$ tcpip show services" FTP showsrF > > up as disabled, but when we ran the network config we installed it > > and enabled it.  r > H > The TCPIP software will disable a service if it finds that its startupF > has failed a number of times. So if your FTP software still fails to8 > start due to file protection problems, this is normal. > G > When a service is enabled, if a process hasn't taken control over theaB > specified port, the TCPIP services software starting at 5.3 willF > automatically start a process when there is an incoming call to that > port.E > G > So disabling the service is fair if the TCPIP stack has realised that + > the process fails whenever it is started.l   Another bit of information.o    ***** On my working system *****  + PSSBCK::System$ tcpip sho service ftp /fulli   Service: FTP-                            State:     EnabledaG Port:               21     Protocol:  TCP             Address:  0.0.0.0p> Inactivity:          5     User_name: TCPIP$FTP       Process:	 TCPIP$FTPwC Limit:              10     Active:      0             Peak:       1   , File:         TCPIP$SYSTEM:TCPIP$FTP_RUN.COM Flags:        None   Socket Opts:  Rcheck Schecka0  Receive:            0     Send:               0  F Log Opts:     Acpt Actv Dactv Conn Error Exit Logi Logo Mdfy Rjct TimO Addr8  File:        SYS$SYSDEVICE:[TCPIP$FTP]TCPIP$FTP_RUN.LOG   Security  Reject msg:  not defined8  Accept host: 0.0.0.0o  Accept netw: 0.0.0.0n    $ ***** On my NOT working system *****  , BRKOUT::System$ tcpip show service ftp /full   Service: FTP.                            State:     DisabledG Port:               21     Protocol:  TCP             Address:  0.0.0.0t>                            User_name: not defined     Process:	 TCPIP$FTPr $_  A Is it possible to copy a tcpip$ftp configuration between systems?m   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Apr 2005 21:22:04 +01006 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)' Subject: Re: TCPIP V5.5 on OpenVMS V8.2w, Message-ID: <4272a57c$1@news.langstoeger.at>  h In article <4271513e@cfanews.cfa.harvard.edu>, "Gareth V. Williams" <graff@cfa0.cfa.harvard.edu> writes: ><rant>sJ >Why couldn't sftp have been designed to be backwards-compatible with ftp?F >Then in order to have encrypted transfer, all one would need to do to8 >make existing ftp-using command files work would be to: >$ FTP :== SFTPm >and voila!i= >The implementation of SSH has been very badly thought out...e ></rant>  H This is *exactly* the reason why Process Software still makes money with= its own standalone SSH product (for use on top of UCX/TCPIP).1  C Yes, one can hope, but don't hold your breathe (for these years)...l   -- k Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERs% Network and OpenVMS system specialiste E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Apr 2005 11:44:15 -0700 From: leighoca@yahoo.cat$ Subject: TIMEZONE ETC. on OVMS 7.1-2B Message-ID: <1114800255.251820.78710@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>  7 I have a 2xnode Alpha (800) cluster running OVMS 7.1-2.  Cluster time is CDTn   Node 1 timezone_name is UTC  Node 2 timezone_name is CSTi Cluster timezone_diff is -18000 ? The time is right, but I'd like to clean this up before October   @ I have attempted to reset node 1 tz name to CST/CDT with no luck  ? we are NOT running DTSS but UTC - Which does not reset the zonei   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 21:45:37 -0500.2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>( Subject: Re: TIMEZONE ETC. on OVMS 7.1-2+ Message-ID: <4272F151.F0BFC9B9@comcast.net>    leighoca@yahoo.ca wrote: > 9 > I have a 2xnode Alpha (800) cluster running OVMS 7.1-2.  > Cluster time is CDTk >  > Node 1 timezone_name is UTCp > Node 2 timezone_name is CST(! > Cluster timezone_diff is -18000eA > The time is right, but I'd like to clean this up before Octoberp > B > I have attempted to reset node 1 tz name to CST/CDT with no luck > A > we are NOT running DTSS but UTC - Which does not reset the zoner  G V7.1-2 doesn't have much regarding UTC, as I recall. The logical names,aH if present, are probably DEFINEd /EXECUTIVE. SHOW LOGICAL/FULL will tellG you. If they are and if you have (or can get) CMEXEC privilege, you can 6 change them manually or cook up your own DCL to do it.  C BTW: Timezone differential is per system, not at the cluster level.m   -- o David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/r  " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/o   Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Apr 2005 16:23:15 -0700 From: jordan@ccs4vms.com4 Subject: Re: Unix - VMS compatible encryption methodB Message-ID: <1114816995.693177.46210@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>   Alphaman wrote:  > @ > We're successfully running GnuPG v1.04 on 7.1-2 with UCX v4.2. GoogleE > this newsgroup for info on how to build it.  You may also find infoS in > the OVMS FAQ.d >pF > It's proved to be more than satisfactory in its interoperations withD > PGP.  Be sure to read and understand the potential security issues withE > older code like this; there may be specific things that you'll want0 toF > avoid in a production environment until your environment can upgrade toE > a later version of VMS that supports a more contemporary release of  GnuPG. >c > Aaronu   Aaron,E      did you build your own copy of GPG on your V7.1-2 system?  I setoE up a test V7.1 box (same as our customer's); the executables providediD by David Mathog have a version mismatch error (CMA$TIS_SHR.EXE) whenG run on that system, and his docs did not include OS or compiler version F info, though by the date (and mention of the Compaq C compiler) it was doubtless newer than V7.1x.s  B I tried a rebuild of GPG 1.0.4 using C V6.0 (which was the versionE current with V7.1) and although it builds the auxiliary programs, GPG D and GPGV can't be linked due to excessive compile warnings (I think;D the build log was bloody huge and I haven't had time to backtrack itE yet)).  I then installed C V6.5 (the only other version I have handy)DE and the build dies with a duplicate global system DECRYPT_DATA in the  build object library.   C I'm out of time and ideas on this.  I can't even get the old kit wew@ have running on the VAX to build on the Alpha box, even with theF compiler option for compatibility mode (the VAX version was definitelyG built using VAX C back in 1994 or so).  The PGP kit another person sentaA refuses to build a keyring (keygen error) even after successfullytE relinking or rebuilding, and I haven't been able to find the cause of 
 the error.  G We may just have to tell the customer to upgrade their VMS to somethingoE that can run current compaq supplied GPG.  The time this is taking is 
 excessive.   Rich CCS    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 22:43:29 GMT * From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>> Subject: Re: VMS equivalent of % xset fp+ directory_with_fonts2 Message-ID: <lMyce.4766$fb3.3423@news.cpqcorp.net>  / Fonts are per-server, so the DECW$SERVERn_TABLEu  A And yes, it is possible to have multiple servers on a single box,e= in the VAX days you could do it on a very old q-bus microvax,iB today you can do it with a virtual frame buffer or even multi-seat with USB input devices.i    L "Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply" <helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de>/ wrote in message news:d4ud0d$2jh$2@online.de...i< > In article <wUoce.4694$BG2.3179@news.cpqcorp.net>, "FredK"& > <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com> writes: >h. > > > > Sorry.  I meant DECW$FONT not SYS$FONT > > >w) > > > That seems to be undefined as well.p > > 1 > >  $ sho log decw$font/table=decw$server0_table>B > >    "DECW$FONT" = "DECW$SYSCOMMON:[SYSFONT.DECW.USER_CURSOR32]" > > (DECW$SERVER0_TAB  > > LE)a > ? > OK, thanks, I was thinking it would be in DECW$LOGICAL_NAMES.- >h   ------------------------------   Date: 29 Apr 2005 17:52:10 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)4 Subject: Re: What is Different or Special About VMS?, Message-ID: <3dfai9F6tj8cqU2@individual.net>  R In article <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB5ECEC2@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>,* 	"Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> writes: >  >> -----Original Message----- % >> From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu=20nB >> [mailto:bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu] On Behalf Of Bill Gunshannon >> Sent: April 29, 2005 8:41 AM  >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com7 >> Subject: Re: What is Different or Special About VMS?t >>=20t6 >> In article <d4FcgXqIsRmD@eisner.encompasserve.org>,A >> 	koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:y4 >> > In article <3dc4u8F6tagnqU1@individual.net>,=20- >> bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:p >> >>=204 >> >> I didn't say that.  I said that DEFCON didn't. >> >=20vC >> >    Except that VMS was at DEFCON and was attacked.  RSX and=20k >> CPM weren't.y >>=20nC >> More likely VMS was at DEFCON and a few curious people walked=20m
 >> by, tappedaB >> the keyboard, said, "What the heck is this?", shrugged their=20
 >> shoulders,nA >> and walked on.  I have yet to see anything that even hinted=20  >> at the ideaI >> that people at DEFCON knew enough about VMS to pose the kind of threat < >> to it that they pose to Windows and Unix.  Security by=20 >> obscurity.  But,:C >> again, I stress that this does notmean that VMS is in any way=20t >> unsecure.I >> I have no doubt that it is more secure than both Windows and Unix.  Myr@ >> only pooint is that DEFCON is not a reasonable measure any=20 >> more than CERTtC >> is.  If someone can get NSA or NIST to certify VMS as secure,=20  >> I would placeB >> value on that evaluation.  But DEFCON, what a joke.  I would=20
 >> be willingoA >> to bet that if you went to DEFCON with a Prime-9950 running=20t >> the currentH >> release of Primos no one there would be able to hack it.  The same is? >> probably true of RSX.  And if access was limited to other=20p >> than the console,@ >> even RSTS (hacking passwords on RSTS during the startup is=20 >> well documented= >> on the INTERNET).  However, put Johnny Billquist at the=20  >> console and all >> bets are off.  :-)  >>=20p >> billf >> =20 >>=20d >  > Bill,r > G > Here is a pointer to a trip report on DEFCON9. As the article states,LE > the only VMS specific incident was a social engineering one where aoG > hacker using social eng convinced one of the system managers to login G > remotely and sniffed his password off the network (the VMS folks were  > not using SSH).s  @ Isn'tt hat what I said earlier?  When all else fails, use social( engineering.  No machine is un-hackable.   > J > As to your comment about no one hitting the VMS box or these hackers not3 > knowing OpenVMS, as Nigel pointed out, check out: * > http://www.vmsone.com/~opcom/defcon9.htm > E > "The Alpha was disconnected from the haxor network, the serial port I > issue (our fault alone) was fixed, and the network was reconnected. ThehH > incident did not repeat, nor did any hack whatsoever of the VMS systemI > take place during the event. The hackers bombarded the box with telnets3I > and ftp attempts to every bizarre port number imaginable, obscure portsuJ > in the 40,000 range and more. The word of the early-morning incident hadE > spread, and those seeking glory and a reputation besieged the box."s  A Oh please.  They were obviously just running blanket scans of the B entire network and specifically attacking the VMS box.  The reportB reminds me of "The Wily Hacker" testifying before congress or "TheC Cuckoo's Egg".  Good stories until examined by someone with a clue.i   >  > [snip ...] > G > "This man turned out to be none other than Cedric Zool, the notoriouss > Belgian hacker.   H So notorious I;ll bet that there aren't 100 people outside of his hacker0 buddies who have ever heard of him (I hadn't!)    > >                 This was a stroke of luck, as we fell into aA > conversation, and I discovered that VMS was one of his favoritedI > operating systems, and the only one he really trusted for his importantm > data."  D Which still doesn't prove it is for any reason other than it's total+ obscurity in his circle of acquaintenances.    >  > [snip ...] > G > "During the closing session at about 4 PM Sunday, the Ghetto Hackers,cH > which are the most respected and skillful, gave the Green team `props'J > because our stuff stayed up and our `root' was the only one they did not,                                       ^^^^^^  F Yeah, these "experts" really know about VMS.  So I was right, if I putC up an RSX, RSTS or Primos system I can be fairly certain they won'te get my "root" either.f  J > get. We consider this a positive note and a high compliment, coming from  > this well-accomplished group."  I You guys can continue to place your faith in the rantings of DEFCON, I'll & reserve mine for NSA, NIST and DISCOM.   bill   -- ,J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   o   ------------------------------   Date: 29 Apr 2005 19:30:06 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)4 Subject: Re: What is Different or Special About VMS?, Message-ID: <3dfg9uF6uh7n8U1@individual.net>  , In article <3dfai9F6tj8cqU2@individual.net>,+ 	bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:hT > In article <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB5ECEC2@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>,, > 	"Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> writes: >> - >>> -----Original Message-----& >>> From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu=20C >>> [mailto:bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu] On Behalf Of Bill Gunshannon-  >>> Sent: April 29, 2005 8:41 AM >>> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comh8 >>> Subject: Re: What is Different or Special About VMS? >>>=207 >>> In article <d4FcgXqIsRmD@eisner.encompasserve.org>, B >>> 	koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:5 >>> > In article <3dc4u8F6tagnqU1@individual.net>,=20k. >>> bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:	 >>> >>=20 5 >>> >> I didn't say that.  I said that DEFCON didn't.x >>> >=20D >>> >    Except that VMS was at DEFCON and was attacked.  RSX and=20 >>> CPM weren't. >>>=20D >>> More likely VMS was at DEFCON and a few curious people walked=20 >>> by, tappedC >>> the keyboard, said, "What the heck is this?", shrugged their=20- >>> shoulders,B >>> and walked on.  I have yet to see anything that even hinted=20 >>> at the ideaRJ >>> that people at DEFCON knew enough about VMS to pose the kind of threat= >>> to it that they pose to Windows and Unix.  Security by=20I >>> obscurity.  But,D >>> again, I stress that this does notmean that VMS is in any way=20
 >>> unsecure. J >>> I have no doubt that it is more secure than both Windows and Unix.  MyA >>> only pooint is that DEFCON is not a reasonable measure any=20  >>> more than CERTD >>> is.  If someone can get NSA or NIST to certify VMS as secure,=20 >>> I would placeiC >>> value on that evaluation.  But DEFCON, what a joke.  I would=20- >>> be willingB >>> to bet that if you went to DEFCON with a Prime-9950 running=20 >>> the currentnI >>> release of Primos no one there would be able to hack it.  The same is0@ >>> probably true of RSX.  And if access was limited to other=20 >>> than the console,?A >>> even RSTS (hacking passwords on RSTS during the startup is=20p >>> well documented)> >>> on the INTERNET).  However, put Johnny Billquist at the=20 >>> console and alls >>> bets are off.  :-) >>>=20 >>> bill >>> =20s >>>=20 >> p >> Bill, >> ,H >> Here is a pointer to a trip report on DEFCON9. As the article states,F >> the only VMS specific incident was a social engineering one where aH >> hacker using social eng convinced one of the system managers to loginH >> remotely and sniffed his password off the network (the VMS folks were >> not using SSH). > B > Isn'tt hat what I said earlier?  When all else fails, use social* > engineering.  No machine is un-hackable. >  >>  K >> As to your comment about no one hitting the VMS box or these hackers not 4 >> knowing OpenVMS, as Nigel pointed out, check out:+ >> http://www.vmsone.com/~opcom/defcon9.htm  >> mF >> "The Alpha was disconnected from the haxor network, the serial portJ >> issue (our fault alone) was fixed, and the network was reconnected. TheI >> incident did not repeat, nor did any hack whatsoever of the VMS systemrJ >> take place during the event. The hackers bombarded the box with telnetsJ >> and ftp attempts to every bizarre port number imaginable, obscure portsK >> in the 40,000 range and more. The word of the early-morning incident hadKF >> spread, and those seeking glory and a reputation besieged the box." > C > Oh please.  They were obviously just running blanket scans of theeD > entire network and specifically attacking the VMS box.  The report                  ^^^# That should have been "rather than"   D > reminds me of "The Wily Hacker" testifying before congress or "TheE > Cuckoo's Egg".  Good stories until examined by someone with a clue.  >  >> 2
 >> [snip ...]  >> lH >> "This man turned out to be none other than Cedric Zool, the notorious >> Belgian hacker.   > J > So notorious I;ll bet that there aren't 100 people outside of his hacker2 > buddies who have ever heard of him (I hadn't!)   > ? >>                 This was a stroke of luck, as we fell into a2B >> conversation, and I discovered that VMS was one of his favoriteJ >> operating systems, and the only one he really trusted for his important	 >> data."u > F > Which still doesn't prove it is for any reason other than it's total- > obscurity in his circle of acquaintenances.  >  >> i
 >> [snip ...]t >> eH >> "During the closing session at about 4 PM Sunday, the Ghetto Hackers,I >> which are the most respected and skillful, gave the Green team `props'tK >> because our stuff stayed up and our `root' was the only one they did notf. >                                       ^^^^^^ > H > Yeah, these "experts" really know about VMS.  So I was right, if I putE > up an RSX, RSTS or Primos system I can be fairly certain they won't. > get my "root" either.: > K >> get. We consider this a positive note and a high compliment, coming frome! >> this well-accomplished group."o > K > You guys can continue to place your faith in the rantings of DEFCON, I'llr( > reserve mine for NSA, NIST and DISCOM. >  > bill >    -- eJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   e   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 19:44:20 -04000' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com>e4 Subject: RE: What is Different or Special About VMS?R Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB5ECED4@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----$ > From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu=20A > [mailto:bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu] On Behalf Of Bill Gunshannonc > Sent: April 29, 2005 1:52 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Come6 > Subject: Re: What is Different or Special About VMS? >=20  
 [snip ...]   >=20H > Yeah, these "experts" really know about VMS.  So I was right, if I putE > up an RSX, RSTS or Primos system I can be fairly certain they won'tb > get my "root" either.R >=207 > > get. We consider this a positive note and a high=20  > compliment, coming from " > > this well-accomplished group." >=20A > You guys can continue to place your faith in the rantings of=20  > DEFCON, I'll( > reserve mine for NSA, NIST and DISCOM. >=20   Bill,e  G The issue is not whether DEFCON is the determining factor of whether angB OS is secure or not. And yes, every OS has had issues in the past.  H You seem to feel OpenVMS would have just as many security holes as otherE platforms if it were more popular. That is what security by obscurityk1 means or at least that is what I hear you saying.p  G My opinion (and others have expressed similar thoughts) is that even if H OpenVMS were more popular from a mainstream perspective, there would notG be anywhere near the number of security issues (notice I did not say nooD issues) seen today on other platforms e.g. the 100+ security patchesH released publically by Red Hat for its Linux platforms (you said NSA wasF using Linux? Now that makes me feel safe...) since Jan of this year or/ what ever number has been released for Windows.e  H Every OS has had some security issues in the past, but as I stated in anG earlier thread, there are at least 2 major parts to a secure solution -LG the capabilities of the Admin's and the base OS design itself. The bestiH Admin's will not be able to stop holes in the OS that they are not awareG of, hence the base OS design is absolutely critical. The less OS issues % the more secure the overall solution.g  F The point is that, regardless if you want to believe it or not, one ofC OpenVMS's claims i.e. very high security, was tested at this DEFCONmG event and beat up in an environment full of knowledgeable hackers. ManynF of these were hackers were looking for the bragging rights to say theyE hacked into the "VAX" system. [actually Alpha OpenVMS as noted in the- article]  H In the end, they were not successful. The one incident of social eng wasF not a reflection on the OS itself, but rather the Admin's. i.e. socialF eng is not "hacking" a system, but rather using social trickery to get= valid passwords etc which ths system views as a valid access.l  C So, instead of a hacker having the bragging rights, OpenVMS now hasn" kudo's from the event instead. =20     Regardse  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultantn HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477> kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  $ "OpenVMS has always had integrity .. Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .."   ------------------------------   Date: 30 Apr 2005 02:34:48 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)4 Subject: Re: What is Different or Special About VMS?, Message-ID: <3dg968F6rrre3U1@individual.net>  R In article <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB5ECED4@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>,* 	"Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> writes: >> -----Original Message-----i >> From: bill@cs.uofs.edu=20 >> Sent: April 29, 2005 1:52 PM  >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com7 >> Subject: Re: What is Different or Special About VMS?1 >>=200 >  > [snip ...] >  >>=20oI >> Yeah, these "experts" really know about VMS.  So I was right, if I put2F >> up an RSX, RSTS or Primos system I can be fairly certain they won't >> get my "root" either. >>=20o8 >> > get. We consider this a positive note and a high=20 >> compliment, coming from# >> > this well-accomplished group."" >>=20 B >> You guys can continue to place your faith in the rantings of=20 >> DEFCON, I'lli) >> reserve mine for NSA, NIST and DISCOM., >>=20i >  > Bill,e > I > The issue is not whether DEFCON is the determining factor of whether an3D > OS is secure or not. And yes, every OS has had issues in the past. > J > You seem to feel OpenVMS would have just as many security holes as otherG > platforms if it were more popular. That is what security by obscuritye3 > means or at least that is what I hear you saying.o  E I have never said that VMS was not secure.  But the fact remains thatPD without the attention that Windows and Unix get we'll probably neverD know if there isn't some hole waiting to be exploited.  How many manF hours have been spent trying to hack Windows?  How many man hours haveI been spent trying to hack Unix?  Howmany man hours have been spent tryingoE to hack VMS?  What was they said about an infinite number of monkeys?e  ? My biggest problem is with the insistence on using something as:@ irrelevant as DEFCON (or number of CERT advisories) to prove theA point.  Surely if VMS is still in the favor of the government and D DOD as many here keep insisting you can come up with a more credible source to show it.   > I > My opinion (and others have expressed similar thoughts) is that even ifaJ > OpenVMS were more popular from a mainstream perspective, there would notI > be anywhere near the number of security issues (notice I did not say noy
 > issues)   C And I agree. But surely you realize that VMS has profited from mucheA of this because I wold like to think that when a hole is found in C one of the others someone in VMS Engineering takes the time to looku? at the equivalent code in VMS to see that there is, in fact, nolB vulnerability there.  Of course, if one is found and fixed, no oneE would ever know because VMS was never attacked.  But prudent practice C would be to check anyway.  Because of differences in the underlyingyC OS model I am sure many of these exploits do not exist, such as the B dreaded "buffer overflow".  But, guess what, that problem also didE not affect RSX, RSTS or Primos (my other favorite examples.)  Many ofyF the more well known exploits have been closed in most versions of Unix	 as well. l  F >         seen today on other platforms e.g. the 100+ security patchesJ > released publically by Red Hat for its Linux platforms (you said NSA was. > using Linux? Now that makes me feel safe...)  D First of all, I hardly expect any of NSA'a machines are available toB the hackers.  Second, NSA hardened Linux several years ago.  ThoseC modifications are only now being put into core distributions.  Why?NF Because (again, as I have frequently said here) Linux is not a seriousG operating system it is a toy written by a child and maintained by self-. proclained computer experts.  nG >                                             since Jan of this year or:1 > what ever number has been released for Windows.4  E Windows has no excuse other than incompetence and greed. (Unlike many E in the industry today I do not now nor have I ever thought Bill Gates0! was any kind of computer genius.)    > J > Every OS has had some security issues in the past, but as I stated in anI > earlier thread, there are at least 2 major parts to a secure solution -8I > the capabilities of the Admin's and the base OS design itself. The bestPJ > Admin's will not be able to stop holes in the OS that they are not awareI > of, hence the base OS design is absolutely critical. The less OS issuesn' > the more secure the overall solution.  > H > The point is that, regardless if you want to believe it or not, one ofE > OpenVMS's claims i.e. very high security, was tested at this DEFCONtE > event and beat up in an environment full of knowledgeable hackers. l  F See, there you go again.  Knowing how few real VMS professionals thereH are left in the world and knowing that schools stopped using VMS severalI years ago and knowing that running VMS yourself requires special hardwaretE as well as mandatory licenses, just where did all those pre-pubescentiH computer geeks get all that knowledge?  They have Windows at home.  TheyJ have Linux.  Some probably have some flavor of BSD.  It is highly unlikelyG they are all running VMS in their basements in order to look for holes.e    I >                                                                    ManynH > of these were hackers were looking for the bragging rights to say theyG > hacked into the "VAX" system. [actually Alpha OpenVMS as noted in thei
 > article]  E There you prove my point again.  They don't even know what the system5F is.  They don;t even know the name of the OS and yet you expect peopleG to believe they are knowledable enough about it to launch a real attackeE and thus be properly repelled by the security of the OS.  The fact istF they didn't know what it was and in most cases had probably never seenG a VMS system before in their life.  I wonder how many attempts to loginKH as "root" were logged?  More importantly, it would be interesting to seeF how many attemts were made to login to accounts such as MAINT (which II believe was one of the default maintenance accounts back inthe DEC days.) G That at least would have shown some little understanding of VMS even ifT somewhat dated.    > J > In the end, they were not successful. The one incident of social eng wasH > not a reflection on the OS itself, but rather the Admin's. i.e. socialH > eng is not "hacking" a system, but rather using social trickery to get? > valid passwords etc which ths system views as a valid access.y > E > So, instead of a hacker having the bragging rights, OpenVMS now hast$ > kudo's from the event instead. =20  C Faint praise.  It's just too bad that so many serious professionals ) fail to see it as nothing more than that.t  B There are published criteria for secure systems.  VMS can probablyE pass them at a much higher level than Windows or any version of Unix.SF That would be something to brag about.  And it would make great press.F Unfortunately, HP doesn't seem to care and so we are left with relyingE on DEFCON for bragging rights.  That's like going to a Star Trek Con-kG vention to get up to date on the latest finding in physics and science.    bill t   -- hJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 23:09:42 -0400s# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>c4 Subject: Re: What is Different or Special About VMS?, Message-ID: <cJednQDgFplka-_fRVn-gw@igs.net>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:   >S <major snip> >eD > There are published criteria for secure systems.  VMS can probablyG > pass them at a much higher level than Windows or any version of Unix. H > That would be something to brag about.  And it would make great press.H > Unfortunately, HP doesn't seem to care and so we are left with relyingG > on DEFCON for bragging rights.  That's like going to a Star Trek Con- @ > vention to get up to date on the latest finding in physics and
 > science.    I I wouldn't go around slagging Star Trek conventions ...... it's where then* Pentagon gets some of its best ideas.  ;-)   --F OpenVMS - The never advertised operating system with the dwindling ISV base.o   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.239 ************************mal. > G > When a service is enabled, if a process hasn't taken control over theeB > specified port, the TCPIP services software starting at 5.3 willF > automatically start a process when there is an incoming call to that > port.M > G > So disabling the service is fair if the TCPIP stack has realised that + > the process fails whenever it is started.e  D When I do a "$spawn/nowait @sys$system:tcpip$ftp_run", I was able toC then do a "$ ftp localhost" and it asked for a login and worked.  I G @d-hg>zΐET&5(؀xUXܩ6ê9iPKKI`pe(rfҶ\t47lDB Dxv
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