1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 03 Aug 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 430       Contents: Re: 'Nuff said Re: ANNOUNCE: XPdf v3.00pl3  Re: ANNOUNCE: XPdf v3.00pl3  Re: ANNOUNCE: XPdf v3.00pl3  Re: ANNOUNCE: XPdf v3.00pl3  Re: ANNOUNCE: XPdf v3.00pl3  Re: ANNOUNCE: XPdf v3.00pl3  Re: Another blue screen  Re: Another blue screen  Re: C compiler, 7-character CRC  Re: C compiler, 7-character CRC  Re: C compiler, 7-character CRC  Re: C compiler, 7-character CRC / Re: Intel hammer another nail in Itanium coffin / Re: Intel hammer another nail in Itanium coffin / Re: Intel hammer another nail in Itanium coffin / Re: Intel hammer another nail in Itanium coffin / Re: Intel hammer another nail in Itanium coffin / Re: Intel hammer another nail in Itanium coffin / Re: Intel hammer another nail in Itanium coffin / Re: Intel hammer another nail in Itanium coffin / Re: Intel hammer another nail in Itanium coffin / Re: Intel hammer another nail in Itanium coffin / Re: Intel hammer another nail in Itanium coffin / Re: Intel hammer another nail in Itanium coffin , Moving a UAF file from one Alpha to another.0 Re: Moving a UAF file from one Alpha to another.0 Re: Moving a UAF file from one Alpha to another.0 Re: Moving a UAF file from one Alpha to another. Rdb 72 FT2 for Alpha and I640 Re: The cause of the Air France crash in Toronto0 Re: The cause of the Air France crash in Toronto0 Re: The cause of the Air France crash in Toronto VIM on OpenVMS  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 3 Aug 2005 06:46:03 -0500  From: briggs@encompasserve.org Subject: Re: 'Nuff said 3 Message-ID: <h8ozoSPn8dZC@eisner.encompasserve.org>   O In article <COTHe.26331$MW5.21798@trnddc08>, John Santos <john@egh.com> writes: ! > briggs@encompasserve.org wrote: x >> In article <dcon5r$3bm$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>, "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> writes: >>   >>>  >>>Hi Richard, >>> C >>>We don't run DECnet on the TestDrive systems.  Try this instead.  >>>  >>>$ set host 0/telnet >>   >>   >> $ set host 0 /telnet  >> ?Illegal internet address >>   >> $ set host 127.0.0.1 /telnet  >> Username: >  >  > What stack are you running?    Multinet   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2005 08:04:45 -0400 - From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> $ Subject: Re: ANNOUNCE: XPdf v3.00pl31 Message-ID: <EIqdnck7opV6L23fRVn-2g@adelphia.com>    Chip Coldwell wrote: > 2 > http://frank.harvard.edu/~coldwell/vms/xpdf.html  A Unless someone has done a recent fix, the GhostScript kit on the  5 Freeware will not install on OpenVMS 7.3-2 and later.   H The problem is that that the replacement routine for snprintf() has the H same global symbol name as the snprintf() that is now in the C run-time  library.  C The practice of covering up a standard UNIX library routine with a  I global routine of the same name no longer works reliably on UNIX systems  H   that have shared images and compiler optimizers, and will not work on  VMS for the same reasons.   F I tried building the latest GhostScript but did not have time to find B the cause of it's build failures.  The VMS instructions and build , scripts on that site were a bit out of date.   -John  wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only    ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2005 09:15:31 -0400 From: norm.raphael@metso.com$ Subject: Re: ANNOUNCE: XPdf v3.00pl3Q Message-ID: <OF19CC9533.0A0BB990-ON85257052.0048A369-85257052.0048D779@metso.com>   B All except the Ghostscript PCSI files when self-extracted have the Stream_LF attribute. I had to do   J set file/att=(rfm:fix,lrl:8192) FREEWARE-AXPVMS-FREETYPE-V0201-10-1.PCSI;1  ) for example, before PCSI would like them.   F Chip Coldwell <coldwell@gmail.nospam> wrote on 08/02/2005 08:03:16 PM:  E > With some effort, I've managed to compile Xpdf version 3.00pl3 (the E > latest as of this writing) for OpenVMS/Alpha. This is an up-to-date 8 > PDF viewer (analogous to Adobe Acrobat) for VMS users. > D > Xpdf requires two shared libraries: T1Lib and Freetype. As of this< > writing, the latest versions of each are 5.0.2 and 2.1.10,H > respectively. Xpdf also requires Ghostscript, in order to use the TypeB > 1 fonts that come with it (especially the 13 required PostScript	 > fonts).  > B > To make it convenient to install and remove, I have packaged theF > compiled binaries in PCSI (PolyCenter Software Installation utility)	 > format.  > > > Downloads and installation instructions are on my website at > 2 > http://frank.harvard.edu/~coldwell/vms/xpdf.html >  > -- > Charles M. "Chip" Coldwell > Turn on, log in, tune out  >    ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2005 09:48:35 -0400+ From: Chip Coldwell <coldwell@gmail.nospam> $ Subject: Re: ANNOUNCE: XPdf v3.00pl3A Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0508030947370.17244@frank.harvard.edu>   + On Wed, 3 Aug 2005, John E. Malmberg wrote:    > Chip Coldwell wrote: >>  3 >> http://frank.harvard.edu/~coldwell/vms/xpdf.html  > L > Unless someone has done a recent fix, the GhostScript kit on the Freeware . > will not install on OpenVMS 7.3-2 and later. > O > The problem is that that the replacement routine for snprintf() has the same  M > global symbol name as the snprintf() that is now in the C run-time library.  > L > The practice of covering up a standard UNIX library routine with a global O > routine of the same name no longer works reliably on UNIX systems  that have  O > shared images and compiler optimizers, and will not work on VMS for the same  
 > reasons. > L > I tried building the latest GhostScript but did not have time to find the P > cause of it's build failures.  The VMS instructions and build scripts on that  > site were a bit out of date.  J Where were you getting the GhostScript sources?  I can have a crack at it  later this week.   Chip   --   Charles M. "Chip" Coldwell Turn on, log in, tune out    ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2005 12:21:02 -0400+ From: Chip Coldwell <coldwell@gmail.nospam> $ Subject: Re: ANNOUNCE: XPdf v3.00pl3E Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.63.0508031220040.23484@localhost.localdomain>   1 On Wed, 3 Aug 2005, norm.raphael@metso.com wrote:  > D > All except the Ghostscript PCSI files when self-extracted have the > Stream_LF attribute.
 > I had to do  > L > set file/att=(rfm:fix,lrl:8192) FREEWARE-AXPVMS-FREETYPE-V0201-10-1.PCSI;1 > + > for example, before PCSI would like them.   ? Well, clearly there was a need for more QC before posting those @ packages.  I'll rezip them tonight with the proper RMS metadata.  / Other than that, did the packages work for you?    Chip   --   Charles M. "Chip" Coldwell Turn on, log in, tune out    ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2005 12:38:47 -0400 From: norm.raphael@metso.com$ Subject: Re: ANNOUNCE: XPdf v3.00pl3Q Message-ID: <OFECEC79F0.8DB70EC3-ON85257052.005B30CE-85257052.005B738B@metso.com>   F Chip Coldwell <coldwell@gmail.nospam> wrote on 08/03/2005 12:21:02 PM:  3 > On Wed, 3 Aug 2005, norm.raphael@metso.com wrote:  > > F > > All except the Ghostscript PCSI files when self-extracted have the > > Stream_LF attribute. > > I had to do  > > # > > set file/att=(rfm:fix,lrl:8192) * FREEWARE-AXPVMS-FREETYPE-V0201-10-1.PCSI;1 > > - > > for example, before PCSI would like them.  > A > Well, clearly there was a need for more QC before posting those B > packages.  I'll rezip them tonight with the proper RMS metadata. > 1 > Other than that, did the packages work for you?   # Well, I haven't installed them yet.   D Partly because of the post about Ghostscript and V7.3-2.  We will beC "landing" there soon, and I want it to work then or it's value will  be gone.  E Partly because as a Layered Product installation, it will wipe out my  ECO recovery-sets....   E So if you can do the Ghostscript thing, it will be superior goodness.    >  > Chip >  > -- > Charles M. "Chip" Coldwell > Turn on, log in, tune out  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2005 17:04:01 GMT ) From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.net> $ Subject: Re: ANNOUNCE: XPdf v3.00pl32 Message-ID: <5O6Ie.9788$%m5.8938@news.cpqcorp.net>   norm.raphael@metso.com wrote:  >   F > Partly because of the post about Ghostscript and V7.3-2.  We will beE > "landing" there soon, and I want it to work then or it's value will 
 > be gone.  H If you install Ghostscript on an earlier version of VMS successfully it , will still work after you upgrade to V7.3-2.  I The bug only hits when the product is linked at install time, not at run   time.    -John  wb8tyw@qsl.net Personal Opinion Only    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2005 10:38:59 +0200  From: S <soterroatyahoodotcom>  Subject: Re: Another blue screen& Message-ID: <42f082a0$1@news1.ethz.ch>   Z wrote:G > This isn't a PC/Windows issue, it's a design issue. It's not hard to  K > design computing redundancy and failover into a collection of PCs; we do   > it all the time.  ! This one was answered fine by JF. E Is the safe size of the PC collection the same as the size of one of  D ES40s? I mean, after all one could get parallel computing power and E reliability from anything, even from connecting linux mobile phones.  F It's just some things are more appropriate for some tasks than others.  D > And, FWIW, even Alpha servers crash, so climb off that high horse.G > We have fully patched ES-40s running 7.2-1 in a 24/7/365 environment    I They surely crash as well (you mean probably the OS running on them) but  E please do compare the orders of magnitude. That is what I meant. How  C should I list then the maintenance updates reboots? Right, a fully  D patched Windows NT (needed to compare apples to that VMS 7.2-1 from 3 1999) doesn't have any maintenance updates anymore. H However my point was the other paragraph and I don't want to discuss NT 
 vs. 7.2-1.   S    ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2005 12:51:29 -0500( From: Wayne Sewell <wayne@tachysoft.com>  Subject: Re: Another blue screen/ Message-ID: <00A47BB2.87C1CCDF.7@tachysoft.com>   M >Received: from MVB.SAIC.COM (198.151.12.104) by hardy.tachysoft.com (MX V5.3 5 >          AnHm) with SMTP for <wayne@tachysoft.com>; ) >          Tue, 2 Aug 2005 11:34:03 -0500 & >Date: Tue, 02 Aug 2005 11:04:19 +02002 >X-MX-Warning:   Warning -- Invalid "From" header. >From: S <soterroatyahoodotcom> 9 >User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317)  >X-Accept-Language: en-us, en  >MIME-Version: 1.0 >X-Newsgroups: comp.os.vms! >Subject: Re: Another blue screen ( >In-Reply-To: <42EF4CF3.68319EEE@hp.com>   >Mike Rechtman wrote: J >> In the 60's there was a line from a song that went "when will they ever >> learn..." > / >Those guys should read the uptime project top.  > B >But for most of the people, even relatively computer-literate, a H >computer is a thing that *does* crash from time to time. They are used J >to it like having rain in the autumn. Some of them know there are things I >rumored more stable, but look the sales reps say this solution *can* be  F >made safer with this and that and and and. Now it crashes badly only C >once a year, isn't that a huge improvement for the record? So why  L >migrate to unix? Or even worse, to that other platform what-was-its-name...  M As I have said many times, this is the greatest damage that billy has done to H the computer world and to the world at large: the global perception thatO constant crashes and fuckups are just the Way Computers Work.  Most people have L not a clue that there are computers that *don't* go down every five minutes.   Wayne O =============================================================================== N Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738   wayne@tachysoft.com; http://www.tachysoft.com/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html    O =============================================================================== P Jake Blues:"You traded the Caddy for a microphone? ...... Okay, I can buy that."   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2005 13:14:22 GMT 7 From: John Malmberg <malmberg@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq.hp> ( Subject: Re: C compiler, 7-character CRC2 Message-ID: <Oq3Ie.9781$m95.1303@news.cpqcorp.net>   Walter Kuhn wrote: > Hi,  > < > we are using the OpenVMS C-Compiler (V6.2) with the option >  > /names=shortened > M > For some automatic code generation (for combining Pascal and Java code) we  L > would need the algorithm of the C-Compiler that is used for computing the  > 7-character CRC  >  > e.g. > 3 > Java_at_pke_sms_comlayer_SmsInvoker_generateEvent  > ! > is shortened by the compiler to  > ! > Java_at_pke_sms_comlaye1gtr1n9$  > 4 > Is it possible (preferably in Java) to compute the > 	 > 1gtr1n9  > # > checksum outside the C compiler ?   : I would recommend approaching this from a different angle.  G What is the method that Java is using to access the code compiled in C?   I Can you use the /FIRST_INCLUDE= qualifier on the C compiler to include a  G header file that uses #define long_symbol_name shr_sym_nm to force the  9 names generated by the compiler to ones that you control?    -John ! malmberg@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq.hp  Personal Opinion Only    ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2005 17:29:17 +0200& From: "Walter Kuhn" <w.kuhn@ksg.co.at>( Subject: Re: C compiler, 7-character CRCG Message-ID: <42f0e2d5$0$27838$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at>   , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.  + ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C59850.E32CD920  Content-Type: text/plain;  	charset="iso-8859-1" + Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   D Java accesses native methods in a way that (to keep the example) a = method of package      at.pke.sms.comlayer    in class     SmsInvoker   called     generateEvent    must be declared as   3   Java_at_pke_sms_comlayer_SmsInvoker_generateEvent   4 This is exactly how the javah-Tool of the JDK works.  / Implementation e.g. in Pascal looks like this :   .   [GLOBAL ("Java_at_pke_sms_comlaye1gtr1n9$"),   ASYNCHRONOUS,UNBOUND] #   PROCEDURE LSSCL$WSM$GenerateEvent   J In my opinion using #define would cause the JVM to fail when calling the = native method.   Regards  Walter Kuhn   @ "John Malmberg" <malmberg@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq.hp> schrieb im =8 Newsbeitrag news:Oq3Ie.9781$m95.1303@news.cpqcorp.net... > Walter Kuhn wrote: >> Hi, >>=20 = >> we are using the OpenVMS C-Compiler (V6.2) with the option  >>=20  >> /names=3Dshortened  >>=20 F >> For some automatic code generation (for combining Pascal and Java = code) we=20 J >> would need the algorithm of the C-Compiler that is used for computing = the=20 >> 7-character CRC >>=20  >> e.g.  >>=20 4 >> Java_at_pke_sms_comlayer_SmsInvoker_generateEvent >>=20 " >> is shortened by the compiler to >>=20 " >> Java_at_pke_sms_comlaye1gtr1n9$ >>=20 5 >> Is it possible (preferably in Java) to compute the  >>=20 
 >> 1gtr1n9 >>=20 $ >> checksum outside the C compiler ? >=20< > I would recommend approaching this from a different angle. >=20H > What is the method that Java is using to access the code compiled in = C? >=20D > Can you use the /FIRST_INCLUDE=3D qualifier on the C compiler to = include a=20J > header file that uses #define long_symbol_name shr_sym_nm to force the =  ; > names generated by the compiler to ones that you control?  >=20 > -John # > malmberg@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq.hp  > Personal Opinion Only + ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C59850.E32CD920  Content-Type: text/html; 	charset="iso-8859-1" + Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   > <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD>7 <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =  charset=3Diso-8859-1">9 <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2668" name=3DGENERATOR>  <STYLE></STYLE>  </HEAD>  <BODY> <DIV> F <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Java accesses native methods in a way = that (to keep=20= the example) a method </FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>of =  package</FONT></P>2 <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">!   <P><FONT face=3D"Courier New" = 4 size=3D2>at.pke.sms.comlayer</FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE>2 <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>in class</FONT></P>2 <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">!   <P><FONT face=3D"Courier New" = + size=3D2>SmsInvoker</FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE> 0 <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>called</FONT></P>2 <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">!   <P><FONT face=3D"Courier New" = . size=3D2>generateEvent</FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE>= <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>must be declared as</FONT></P> 2 <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">"   <P><FONT face=3D"Courier New"=20   = J size=3D2>Java_at_pke_sms_comlayer_SmsInvoker_generateEvent</FONT></P></BL=	 OCKQUOTE> J <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>This is exactly how the javah-Tool of the = JDK=20 works.</FONT></P> I <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Implementation e.g. in Pascal looks like =  this=20  :</FONT></P>2 <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">3   <P><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>[GLOBAL=20 J   ("Java_at_pke_sms_comlaye<STRONG>1gtr1n9$</STRONG>"),<BR></FONT><FONT=20"   size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Courier =- New">ASYNCHRONOUS,UNBOUND]<BR></FONT><FONT=20 #   face=3D"Courier New">PROCEDURE=20 6 LSSCL$WSM$GenerateEvent</FONT></FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE>H <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>In my opinion using #define would cause =
 the JVM to=20 / fail when calling the native method.</FONT></P> E <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Regards<BR></FONT><FONT face=3DArial =  size=3D2>Walter=20 Kuhn</FONT></P></DIV> A <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"John Malmberg" &lt;</FONT><A=20 G href=3D"mailto:malmberg@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq.hp"><FONT face=3DArial=20 I size=3D2>malmberg@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq.hp</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial =  size=3D2>&gt;=20# schrieb im Newsbeitrag </FONT><A=20 H href=3D"news:Oq3Ie.9781$m95.1303@news.cpqcorp.net"><FONT face=3DArial=20D size=3D2>news:Oq3Ie.9781$m95.1303@news.cpqcorp.net</FONT></A><FONT = face=3DArial=20 H size=3D2>...</FONT></DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&gt; Walter Kuhn=20J wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; Hi,<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; we are using the OpenVMS =  = C-Compiler (V6.2) with the option<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt;=20 E /names=3Dshortened<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; For some automatic code = 
 generation=20 E (for combining Pascal and Java code) we <BR>&gt;&gt; would need the =  algorithm of=20 I the C-Compiler that is used for computing the <BR>&gt;&gt; 7-character=20 = CRC<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; e.g.<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt;=20 ? Java_at_pke_sms_comlayer_SmsInvoker_generateEvent<BR>&gt;&gt; =  <BR>&gt;&gt; is=208 shortened by the compiler to<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt;=20J Java_at_pke_sms_comlaye1gtr1n9$<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; Is it possible=20> (preferably in Java) to compute the<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; = 1gtr1n9<BR>&gt;&gt;=20J <BR>&gt;&gt; checksum outside the C compiler ?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I would=20J recommend approaching this from a different angle.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; What =	 is the=20 E method that Java is using to access the code compiled in C?<BR>&gt; =  <BR>&gt; Can=20 H you use the /FIRST_INCLUDE=3D qualifier on the C compiler to include a = <BR>&gt;=20 H header file that uses #define long_symbol_name shr_sym_nm to force the = <BR>&gt;=20 C names generated by the compiler to ones that you control?<BR>&gt; =  <BR>&gt;=20  -John<BR>&gt; </FONT><A = : href=3D"mailto:malmberg@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq.hp"><FONT=20 face=3DArial =A size=3D2>malmberg@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq.hp</FONT></A><BR><FONT=20 E face=3DArial size=3D2>&gt; Personal Opinion Only</FONT></BODY></HTML>   - ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C59850.E32CD920--    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2005 17:00:13 GMT 7 From: John Malmberg <malmberg@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq.hp> ( Subject: Re: C compiler, 7-character CRC2 Message-ID: <xK6Ie.9787$%m5.7624@news.cpqcorp.net>   Walter Kuhn wrote:D > Java accesses native methods in a way that (to keep the example) a  > method of package >  >   at.pke.sms.comlayer  > 
 > in class >  >   SmsInvoker >  > called >  >   generateEvent  >  > must be declared as  > 5 >   Java_at_pke_sms_comlayer_SmsInvoker_generateEvent  > 6 > This is exactly how the javah-Tool of the JDK works.  1 > Implementation e.g. in Pascal looks like this :  > 0 >   [GLOBAL ("Java_at_pke_sms_comlaye1gtr1n9$"), >   ASYNCHRONOUS,UNBOUND] % >   PROCEDURE LSSCL$WSM$GenerateEvent    The C code to do the same is:   ? #define Java_at_pke_sms_comlaye1gtr1n9$ LSSCL$WSM$GenerateEvent   C If I understand you, the issue is that you do not know what global  A symbol that the JVM is really expecting so that you can code your  Pascal definition module.   " The following link sould help you:  1 http://h18012.www1.hp.com/java/faq/ovms.html#4.1b   G It provides a link to a tool that your automated procedure may be able   to be adapted to use.    -John " malmberg@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq.com Personal Opinion Only    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2005 17:28:40 GMT & From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com>( Subject: Re: C compiler, 7-character CRC2 Message-ID: <c97Ie.9790$Hp5.7764@news.cpqcorp.net>   John Malmberg wrote:  2 >> Implementation e.g. in Pascal looks like this : >>1 >>   [GLOBAL ("Java_at_pke_sms_comlaye1gtr1n9$"),  >>   ASYNCHRONOUS,UNBOUND]& >>   PROCEDURE LSSCL$WSM$GenerateEvent >  >  > The C code to do the same is:  > A > #define Java_at_pke_sms_comlaye1gtr1n9$ LSSCL$WSM$GenerateEvent  >   K You would need to use /NAMES=AS_IS to get the same behavior in C I believe.   F That Pascal syntax (the quoted string with the GLOBAL attribute) uses A that string AS-IS for the global symbol name.  The #define macro  E substitution won't change C's default behavior for case handling for   linker visible names.    --   John Reagan / HP Pascal/{A|I}MACRO for OpenVMS Project Leader  Hewlett-Packard Company    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2005 02:07:19 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 8 Subject: Re: Intel hammer another nail in Itanium coffin, Message-ID: <42F05F13.29179553@teksavvy.com>   Rob Young wrote:H >         And yet worth billions.  It will be HP/UX, NSK, VMS, NEC, SGI, >         Fujitsu, etc.   J NSK is a very low volume business. VMS is a low volume business because HP refuses to market it.   I >         It doesn't have to be.  It sells at a premium.  Paul points out 4 >         it doesn't take much for it to make money.    M You don't understand that "sells at a premium" just doesn't do anymore. Alpha H and Pa-Risc are being killed because "selling at a premium" doesn't workL because of the competition from the 8086 which doesn't sell at a premium andF offers competitive performance and in 2007, similar system interfaces.  K And you, an HP apologists should know better to separate fabbing costs from M chip development costs.  Yes, it is true that Intel can take advantage of its I FABbing facilities paid for by the high volume 8086 to produce low volume  IA64s.    J But the real problem are the chip design costs, as well as the proprietaryM EPIC compilers etc etc. Those costs are very high and paid for either by high L prices on a low volume chips, or eating away at Intel's profits. Either way,C it is not a sustainable situation in the long term especially since O performance gap and scalability between intel's own 8086 and ia64 is narrowing.   G >         Competitive in which sense?  Won't compete against what?  How D >         does Power compare in a like comparison?  (Hint:  Power is) >         RISC based - Itanium's target).   L People don't care about RISC vs CISC vs EPIC.  They care about scalability ,M performnance and price. Power scales from desktop (and even game consoles) to N large data centre systems. IA64 is only large systems.  Power thus spreads its/ development costs amongst a much higher volume.    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2005 08:25:57 GMT ( From: Alan Greig <greigaln@netscape.net>8 Subject: Re: Intel hammer another nail in Itanium coffin< Message-ID: <pc%He.72844$dN6.1877@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>   Rob Young wrote:    B > The design improvements in Montecito did not focus on FP at all. > Be afraid, very afraid. ;-)   F This is wonderful. According to you Intel are making a chip that's so H good that they are not going to market it for general use. Keeping it a  secret for just folks like us.  = I do agree with you that VMS users should feel afraid though.    --  
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2005 08:18:29 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> 8 Subject: Re: Intel hammer another nail in Itanium coffin0 Message-ID: <11f1dain52tkpec@corp.supernews.com>   Rob Young wrote:  1 > 	It doesn't have to be.  It sells at a premium.   G But, according to Intel, by 2007 the itanic is to be the same price as  1 Xeon.  Or is this another target Intel will miss?   H Xeon surely won't rise in price to match the itanic.  Never forget that 5 burning stick poked into Intel's eye, called Opteron.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2005 09:40:39 -0400 ( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net>8 Subject: Re: Intel hammer another nail in Itanium coffin= Message-ID: <AsOdnRUT3IXHVG3fRVn-og@metrocastcablevision.com>    Rob Young wrote:   ...   9 > 	Here's a bit of a teaser... Montecito is a barn burner + > 	on floating point.   Paul DeMone writes:  >  > http://tinyurl.com/bp7rs > @ > A four socket 1.6 GHz prototype Montecito box gets ~46 GFLOP/s
 > on Linpack.   G Not too bad - in fact almost as good as POWER5's score of 53.8 GFLOP/s  H in a comparable configuration (though of course POWER5 is currently one I process generation behind Montecito, which takes a bit of whatever shine  6 there might have been off Montecito's accomplishment).  I Montecito probably won't match POWER5's score if they ship at 1.8 GHz as  D is currently expected, but if Intel ever gets it up to 2 GHz it may F (except of course by then POWER5+ - in a 90 nm. process comparable to E Montecito's - should be shipping at a considerably higher clock rate  K than POWER5 manages today, so no crown for Monty there either, I'm afraid).   H All of which you would have known had you read my 7/20 response here to I Keith's persistent though inept amateur marketeering (Two New Itanium 2s  H Feature Faster Front-Side Bus - Is this new Montecito information?), or G followed a later discussion at RWT (where Paul eventually had to admit  F that his understanding of what that number above meant was completely 
 flawed - see  l http://www.realworldtech.com/forums/index.cfm?action=detail&PostNum=3589&Thread=114&roomID=11&entryID=54196  for the start of it).   B But, in a phrase you seem fond of, I guess you don't get out much.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2005 10:01:36 -0400 ( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net>8 Subject: Re: Intel hammer another nail in Itanium coffin= Message-ID: <N9ydnUs5v5bbU23fRVn-qQ@metrocastcablevision.com>    Rob Young wrote:^ > In article <42F04A86.3F642DA6@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:   ...   K >>Isn't montecito just a dual core version of the current chip ? (Something J >>which Power has had for many year, and Power has a coherent single cache/ >>whereas IA64 will have dual separare caches).  >  > ) > 	Far beyond "just a dual core version."   E You're in one sense right, Rob:  there's a great deal of interesting  E technology in Montecito.  But in any practical sense JF is basically  E right too:  while dramatic reductions in power consumption have been  I achieved, in the end - by Intel's own projected figures - each Montecito  F core will yield not much more (and in some cases no more) performance  than a current Madison II core.       Foxton, Pellston, 24 MByte ' > 	L3 cache, higher speed, 667 MHz FSB.   G Aside from power reduction (without which a dual-core Itanic of course  F would have been a complete joke - unless they went to water cooling), E there's a 33% increase in per-core cache and an 8% increase in clock  H rate (from the new 1.667 GHz Madison II just announced - which sports a @ 667 MHz FSB as Montecito does - to 1.8 GHz).  Foxton will allow F overclocking to as much as 2 GHz for non-compute-intensive workloads, D but that didn't seem to help the LINPACK score you just referred to  elsewhere match POWER5's.   D Furthermore, Intel hasn't built a new chipset that will support the G faster FSB, and the little benchmark information that has trickled out  I about Fujitsu's new chipset (which does support it) hasn't been all that   impressive.   F If Intel/HP (and of course you yourself) did not have such a long and D consistent history of over-hyping future Itanic performance perhaps I people would cut you more slack and take a bit more on faith.  As it is,  E until hard benchmark data proves otherwise, it would seem prudent to  F view such prognostications with some significant degree of skepticism F (which is at least more polite than uproarious and derisive laughter).   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2005 14:05:09 GMT ( From: Alan Greig <greigaln@netscape.net>8 Subject: Re: Intel hammer another nail in Itanium coffin< Message-ID: <pa4Ie.73628$dN6.1332@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>   Bill Todd wrote:   > Rob Young wrote: >  >  >>A >> A four socket 1.6 GHz prototype Montecito box gets ~46 GFLOP/s  >> on Linpack. >  > I > Not too bad - in fact almost as good as POWER5's score of 53.8 GFLOP/s  I > in a comparable configuration (though of course POWER5 is currently one   H And even that's behind the 58.34 Gflops claimed by AMD for the "4 node" E Linpack using the dual core Opteron 275. But Rob thinks we should be  I amazed that a 4 socket prototype Montecito gets 46 Gigaflops compared to  G the 2 socket Opteron at 58 Gigaflops. That's twice the sockets for 20%  1 less performance. I hope he's on danger money :-)  AMD info at:     ] http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/TechnicalResources/0,,30_182_572_863%5E8800~96867,00.html    --  
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2005 14:20:38 GMT ( From: Alan Greig <greigaln@netscape.net>8 Subject: Re: Intel hammer another nail in Itanium coffin= Message-ID: <Wo4Ie.73638$dN6.24934@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>    Alan Greig wrote:    >  >  > Bill Todd wrote: >  >> Rob Young wrote:  >> >> >>> B >>> A four socket 1.6 GHz prototype Montecito box gets ~46 GFLOP/s >>> on Linpack.  >> >> >>J >> Not too bad - in fact almost as good as POWER5's score of 53.8 GFLOP/s J >> in a comparable configuration (though of course POWER5 is currently one >  > J > And even that's behind the 58.34 Gflops claimed by AMD for the "4 node" G > Linpack using the dual core Opteron 275. But Rob thinks we should be  K > amazed that a 4 socket prototype Montecito gets 46 Gigaflops compared to  I > the 2 socket Opteron at 58 Gigaflops. That's twice the sockets for 20%  3 > less performance. I hope he's on danger money :-)  > AMD info at:  G Actually I'm a bit confused here. Even following the links back to the  I references doesn't help too much. Is Rob claiming 46Gflop for a 4 socket  H (8 core) montecito or what? What config is the 53.8 Power5? It looks to H me as if AMD are claiming 58 for a two socket 4 core Opteron 275. Maybe F I've just spent too mush time watching the shuttle and am half alseep.   > ` > http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/TechnicalResources/0,,30_182_572_863%5E8800~96867,00.html  >  >    --  
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2005 10:32:49 -0400 ( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net>8 Subject: Re: Intel hammer another nail in Itanium coffin= Message-ID: <Cd-dneg_zPcOSG3fRVn-uA@metrocastcablevision.com>    Alan Greig wrote:  >  >  > Bill Todd wrote: >  >> Rob Young wrote:  >> >> >>> B >>> A four socket 1.6 GHz prototype Montecito box gets ~46 GFLOP/s >>> on Linpack.  >> >> >>J >> Not too bad - in fact almost as good as POWER5's score of 53.8 GFLOP/s J >> in a comparable configuration (though of course POWER5 is currently one >  > J > And even that's behind the 58.34 Gflops claimed by AMD for the "4 node" * > Linpack using the dual core Opteron 275.  F Thanks - I hadn't realized that AMD had provided new figures with its  dual-core releases.   G My very slight recent acquaintance with HPC LINPACK suggests that it's  G largely a matter of per-core FLOPS/cycle, clock speed, and bandwidth -  F rather than anything more computationally intensive.  POWER5, Itanic, H and Opteron all boast 4 FLOPs/cycle.  POWER5 and Opteron have oodles of 8 bandwidth, but Itanic comes up a bit short in that area.  H Perhaps the new Itanic FSB will help there - at least for those vendors E who build chipsets to support it - but Itanic also has a clock-speed  F problem:  with POWER5+ and 2.4 GHz and higher dual-core Opterons just G around the corner, it's not clear that even with more bandwidth Itanic   will be able to keep up.     But Rob thinks we should be > > amazed that a 4 socket prototype Montecito gets 46 Gigaflops  G No - the problem is that Rob doesn't think much at all, but just spews  E buzzwords and numbers that he seems to believe will sound impressive  7 without having much of a clue what they actually imply.   
   compared to ' > the 2 socket Opteron at 58 Gigaflops.   G I think you'll find that that was a 4-socket Opteron - but its LINPACK  K HPC score apparently is still the best of the 3 architectures at 4 sockets.    - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2005 10:38:54 -0400 ( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net>8 Subject: Re: Intel hammer another nail in Itanium coffinR Message-ID: <6d-dnZ2dnZ2-0-apnZ2dnZ5Kbd-dnZ2dRVn-0J2dnZ0@metrocastcablevision.com>   Alan Greig wrote:    ...   I > Actually I'm a bit confused here. Even following the links back to the  K > references doesn't help too much. Is Rob claiming 46Gflop for a 4 socket   > (8 core) montecito  I Yes.  The theoretical peak score of a 4-core 1.6 GHz Itanic system would   be only 25.6 GFLOPs.  *   or what? What config is the 53.8 Power5?  ? 4-socket, 8-core (theoretical peak there would be 60.8 GFLOPs).   
   It looks to C > me as if AMD are claiming 58 for a two socket 4 core Opteron 275.   I No - again, it's 4-socket, 8-core (the chart you linked to indicated the  & theoretical peak there:  70.8 GFLOPs).   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2005 14:40:09 GMT ( From: Alan Greig <greigaln@netscape.net>8 Subject: Re: Intel hammer another nail in Itanium coffin; Message-ID: <dH4Ie.73674$dN6.983@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>    Bill Todd wrote:   > AlI > I think you'll find that that was a 4-socket Opteron - but its LINPACK  M > HPC score apparently is still the best of the 3 architectures at 4 sockets.   F The config seems to suggest 2 socket 4 core. This from the AMD site's  claimed config:    Linpack E AMD Opteron processor Model 275 and 248-based system: Hardware: AMD  B Quartet internal development platform (not publicly available). I Processor: Qty. (2), L1 Cache 2x 128KB (64KB data + 64KB inst), L2 Cache  I 2 x 1024KB, Memory: 8GB total. Hard Disk: 15 x 36GB U320 SCSI. Operating  C System: SuSE Professional 9.2 2.6.11-rc3 kernel patch-9962 Release  J 20030321. Libararies: Goto, mpich-gm mpi. Network: Myrinet dual-port card.     --  
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Aug 2005 09:00:45 -0700 # From: "WhoDat?" <whohe@whoever.com> 8 Subject: Re: Intel hammer another nail in Itanium coffinC Message-ID: <1123084845.229541.323910@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    Rob Young wrote: > B > 	It doesn't have to be.  It sells at a premium.  Paul points out- > 	it doesn't take much for it to make money.  >   C That reminds me of a cartoon, Foxtrot I think. Jason has a lemonade C stand with a sign that says (something like) _Lemonade $100,000 per E glass_ and he's saying to his brother "all I have to do is sell one."  (apologies to Bill Amend)    ------------------------------   Date: 3 Aug 2005 10:01:43 -0700  From: bob@instantwhip.com 8 Subject: Re: Intel hammer another nail in Itanium coffinC Message-ID: <1123088503.075003.121720@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   5 but power and amd don't run OpenVMS ... so as long as 9 it is close to the other two ... WHO CARES???  I will not > give up security and reliability for a few more giga whatever!   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Aug 2005 06:02:50 -0700 , From: "DerekB" <derek.boczenowski@gmail.com>5 Subject: Moving a UAF file from one Alpha to another. C Message-ID: <1123074170.522103.212460@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   @ I would like to copy a user authorization file from one Alpha toA another. I'm moving the file from my production machine to a test F disaster recovery machine. Which file do I need to grab? All I want toD make sure is that the users can log into both systems. Do I need any additional files?    Thanks!  -Derek Boczenowski   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2005 09:27:58 -0400 From: norm.raphael@metso.com9 Subject: Re: Moving a UAF file from one Alpha to another. Q Message-ID: <OFBF3BC67F.52EC438C-ON85257052.0049B42E-85257052.0049FB26@metso.com>   G "DerekB" <derek.boczenowski@gmail.com> wrote on 08/03/2005 09:02:50 AM:   B > I would like to copy a user authorization file from one Alpha toC > another. I'm moving the file from my production machine to a test H > disaster recovery machine. Which file do I need to grab? All I want toF > make sure is that the users can log into both systems. Do I need any > additional files?   / Well you certainly need RIGHTSLIST.DAT as well.   C There is a procedure (It used to be available on DSNlink [RIP].) to E merge in SYSUAF.DAT and RIGHTLIST.DAT files using CONVERT among other B things.  If you want the exact same everything, then just grabbing	 may work.    > 	 > Thanks!  > -Derek Boczenowski >    ------------------------------   Date: 3 Aug 2005 08:52:12 -0500  From: briggs@encompasserve.org9 Subject: Re: Moving a UAF file from one Alpha to another. 3 Message-ID: <LIE8ZVsA8TNX@eisner.encompasserve.org>   r In article <1123074170.522103.212460@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "DerekB" <derek.boczenowski@gmail.com> writes:B > I would like to copy a user authorization file from one Alpha toC > another. I'm moving the file from my production machine to a test H > disaster recovery machine. Which file do I need to grab? All I want toF > make sure is that the users can log into both systems. Do I need any > additional files?    The key files are:   SYS$SYSTEM:SYSUAF.DAT   C If you have a logical name SYSUAF, copy the file pointed to by that B logical name instead.  e.g. $ SHOW LOGICAL SYSUAF and see where it points.    SYS$SYSTEM:RIGHTSLIST.DAT   F Again, if you have a logical name RIGHTSLIST, copy the file pointed to by that logical name.   G On the target machine, either recreate the relevant logical names (with B /SYSTEM /EXECUTIVE_MODE or put the files into SYS$COMMON:[SYSEXE].  M (If you're not in a clustered environment, SYS$SYSTEM and SYS$COMMON:[SYSEXE] F are the same directory.  If you are in a clustered environment, you'llF ordinarily want to put the authorization files in the common directory& rather than in the node-specific one).    7 You could also look at SYS$SYSTEM:VMSMAIL_PROFILE.DATA.   D I'm not sure any longer where to look for the DECnet proxy database.   	John Briggs   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2005 15:59:43 +0200  From: S <soterroatyahoodotcom>9 Subject: Re: Moving a UAF file from one Alpha to another. & Message-ID: <42f0cdcd$1@news1.ethz.ch>  
 DerekB wrote: B > I would like to copy a user authorization file from one Alpha toC > another. I'm moving the file from my production machine to a test H > disaster recovery machine. Which file do I need to grab? All I want toF > make sure is that the users can log into both systems. Do I need any > additional files?   J You might need besides SYSUAF.DAT also RIGHTSLIST.DAT (users rights info).H There are also the files NET$PROXY.DAT NETPROXY.DAT and TCPIP$PROXY.DAT E with different network users info (first two for DECNet and last for  G TCP/IP). BTW check the nodenames you have in them with SHOW/PROXY *::*  6 as with changing the machines they might need updates.   HTH  S    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2005 10:24:31 -0600 4 From: Norman Lastovica <norman.lastovica@oracle.com>% Subject: Rdb 72 FT2 for Alpha and I64 * Message-ID: <42F0EFBF.FFBD8B0B@oracle.com>  G          Oracle is pleased to announce the availability of Field Test 2 G     for it's continuing Rdb 7.2 Beta Program.  The field test of Oracle F     Rdb 7.2 is available to run on OpenVMS Industry Standard 64 for HPC     Integrity Servers and for OpenVMS for AlphaServer systems.  The C     kits are available for download on the Rdb 7.2 Beta program web A     site (http://otnbeta.oracle.com/Rdb/index.htm) for registered      Beta customers.      >          The Field Test 2 kit includes the following products:     +          - Oracle Rdb for Itanium and Alpha 4          - Oracle CODASYL DBMS for Itanium and Alpha6          - Oracle CDD/Repository for Itanium and AlphaE          - Oracle SQL/Services & OCI Services for Rdb for Itanium and  Alpha ?          - Oracle Rdb Native JDBC Drivers for Itanium and Alpha B          - Oracle Replication Option for Rdb for Itanium and Alpha+          - Oracle Trace for Rdb for Itanium      H          Oracle expects to release Oracle Rdb Release 7.2 for productionG     use in the second half of calendar year 2005.  If you have not done @     so already, you can register for the Rdb 7.2 Beta Program by visitingH     our Beta Program web site (http://otnbeta.oracle.com/Rdb/index.htm).          Ginger Vollmar#     Rdb Beta Programs Administrator  --  	 - - - - - 0  opinions expressed here are mine and mine alone.  and certainly are not intended in any way to 0  express or represent any opinions or commitment  of oracle corporation.   *  norman lastovica / oracle rdb engineering   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2005 03:05:30 -0400 = From: Jared and Simon Grace <spiderwick.chronicles@gmail.com> 9 Subject: Re: The cause of the Air France crash in Toronto 9 Message-ID: <Z0_He.4523$z91.457283@news20.bellglobal.com>    Gregory Morrow wrote:    > Nomen Nescio wrote:  >  > ) >>From the Canadian Broadcasting Company:  >>K >>TORONTO, Aug. 2  - An Air France A-340 crashed at Toronto Pearson airport H >>this afternoon during landing.  Our reporter, JF Mezei, was riding his >  > bike > H >>along the runway racing planes as he does every afternoon.  He saw theE >>plane coming in for landing, then run off the runway and burst into  > 	 > flames.  > J >>He filed this eyewitness report: "The cause of the accident was that theI >>pilot was masturbating while landing.  All French pilots do that.  They  >  > are  > H >>very horny.  The problem was his pesky foreskin.  He had a bad case ofH >>phimosis and he tore his foreskin while beating his meat very heavily. >  > The  > J >>Airbus practically lands itself.  Despite what the Bush Regime wants you >  > to > K >>believe, it is a very advanced plane.  The Cheney-Rumsfeld-Wolfowitz axis J >>of evil wants to take over Europe, like it did Iraq in that illegal war.@ >>Bush Jr. is a war criminal and needs to be tried as such in anJ >>international court of law.  Americans are a bunch of idiots who believeH >>everything the media in their police state feed them.  That's why theyK >>circumcise all their boys when they are born.  They are afraid of smegma. H >>Terrified!  If they practiced the method of penile manipulation that II >>advocate, that would not be necessary.  All parents need to check their E >>boys' penises on a daily basis, and make sure the foreskin retracts I >>completely, so they can masturbate without problems.  But the Americans  >  > are  > L >>a bunch of puritanical prudes who don't want to admit that masturbation isJ >>a wonderful practice and is beneficial for your health.  So instead theyL >>get rich off the cannibalisation of their children's foreskins, which theyL >>then sell for skin grafts, the greedy blood-sucking capitalist leeches.  IL >>know this because I look at other guys' cocks in the locker room at my gymI >>everyday and try to measure how much foreskin they have left after they G >>were mutilated by the Bush Regime.  So they pass legislation like the F >>Homeland Security Act to distract the world from this craziness, and >  > that's > G >>what makes the world hate them, justifiably, and want to attack them. D >>That's why the moslems hate them.  That's why all those planes get > 
 > diverted > J >>to Canada when the Bush Regime police state get the communist manifesto,K >>oops I mean the passenger manifest for all flights ahead of time, so they K >>can send the plane to Canada if it has terrorists and let them crash into L >>buildings there, because Americans are jealous of Canadians and how we canI >>masturbate freely all we want, and that is why the plane crashed today.  >  > If > K >>the whole world went back to VAX and they used VMS to program the cockpit G >>instruments on airliners this would never have happened.  The shuttle I >>disasters would have never happened.  The astronauts who are trapped in  >  > the  > I >>evil Space Shuttle in space right now would not be awaiting their death J >>upon re-entry as they are right now!  Down with America!!  Down with the >>evil Bush Regime!!!" >>J >>-JF Mezei is our correspondent on aviation, circumcision, foreskins, andH >>masturbation.  He is based in Montreal, where he lives in his mother'sC >>basement, playing with his VAX machine, which he calls his "son",  >  > inserting  >  >>porn into it's "hard" drive. >  >  > ( > Wow!  He's a regular Edward R. Murrow! >   7 And this is crossposted in alt.circumcision because...?   C OT and yet, not: Are you "pro-knife (circ) freaks" responsible for  I killing the 'againstcirc' Yahoo group or did you guys gain admission and  C post something "questionable" just to have Yahoo kill the group on  I purpose? Not to think cynically, but you never know. I noticed the group  A was gone today. http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/againstcirc/   I But to keep OT for NASA newsgroups... nice of the U.S. to waste billions  B   just to keep their brains entertained (hmm, let's keep spending F billions try this and this and this to launch a shuttle where nothing E breaks off at all because it just bugs us that we can't get it right  D yet) while the world on Earth goes to shit dealing w/ pollution and  starvation.   H And as for the Pearson (Airport) disaster, it must really bug Americans I that they can't get all involved in this event and takeover a (disaster)  . situation just because they think they should.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2005 10:39:38 +0200 % From: Starshiy Nemo <Nemo@heaven.com> 9 Subject: Re: The cause of the Air France crash in Toronto = Message-ID: <42f082e4$0$26070$7a628cd7@news.club-internet.fr>   E Encore un imbcile qui n'crit que des imbecilits refletde son trs   faible QI!!!   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2005 17:11:34 GMT 2 From: Rich The Newsgroup Wacko <wacko@example.com>9 Subject: Re: The cause of the Air France crash in Toronto 8 Message-ID: <pan.2005.08.03.17.13.49.477983@example.com>  8 On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 10:39:38 +0200, Starshiy Nemo wrote:  G > Encore un imbcile qui n'crit que des imbecilits refletde son trs   > faible QI!!!  ( Garon, je devine que vous lui avez dit! --   Cheers!  Rich  ------ $  "A headstrong young woman in Ealing0   Threw her two weeks' old child at the ceiling;     When quizzed why she did,      She replied, "To be rid '   Of a strange, overpowering feeling.""      -- Edward Gorey    ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2005 12:07:20 -0500* From: Michael Clark <MClark@Nemschoff.com> Subject: VIM on OpenVMS A Message-ID: <3A0A94E82B68C64D9412D3CA3B32D6A6C73F63@EMAILSERVER3>   J This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand< this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.  ' ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5984D.CF3AAD00  Content-Type: text/plain;  	charset="iso-8859-1"   K We loaded the VIM binaries onto our OpenVMS 7.2-1 system.  I don't have a c 2 compiler installed so that path was not an option.L Vim loads, looks normal, but locks up and takes no keyboard input at all.  IH checked Google and didn't find anything on this problem, has anyone else2 experienced this or does anyone have a suggestion?       ~Mikeal     A CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE: This electronic transmission, including all L attachments, is directed in confidence solely to the person(s) to whom it isL addressed, or an authorized recipient, and may not otherwise be distributed,L copied or disclosed. The contents of the transmission may also be subject toJ intellectual property rights and all such rights are expressly claimed andG are not waived. If you have received this transmission in error, please H notify the sender immediately by return electronic transmission and thenH immediately delete this transmission, including all attachments, without* copying, distributing or disclosing same.       ' ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5984D.CF3AAD00  Content-Type: text/html; 	charset="iso-8859-1" + Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   > <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD>9 <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =  charset=3Diso-8859-1">    @ <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2627" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY>F <DIV><SPAN class=3D968580017-03082005><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>We = loaded the VIM=20 I binaries onto our OpenVMS 7.2-1 system.&nbsp; I don't have a c compiler =   = installed so that path was not an option.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> G <DIV><SPAN class=3D968580017-03082005><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Vim =  loads, looks=20 B normal, but locks up and takes no keyboard input at all.&nbsp; I = checked Google=20 G and didn't find anything on this problem, has anyone else experienced = 
 this or=202 does anyone have a suggestion?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>; <DIV><SPAN class=3D968580017-03082005><FONT face=3DArial=20 # size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV> ; <DIV><SPAN class=3D968580017-03082005><FONT face=3DArial=20 # size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV> ; <DIV><SPAN class=3D968580017-03082005><FONT face=3DArial=20 2 size=3D2>~Mikeal</FONT></SPAN></DIV></BODY></HTML> <BR> <BR>  @ <P><B><FONT SIZE=3D1 FACE=3D"Arial">CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE: This =D electronic transmission, including all attachments, is directed in =C confidence solely to the person(s) to whom it is addressed, or an = G authorized recipient, and may not otherwise be distributed, copied or = D disclosed. The contents of the transmission may also be subject to =H intellectual property rights and all such rights are expressly claimed =F and are not waived. If you have received this transmission in error, =H please notify the sender immediately by return electronic transmission => and then immediately delete this transmission, including all =@ attachments, without copying, distributing or disclosing same. = </FONT></B></P>  <BR> <BR>  ) ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5984D.CF3AAD00--    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.430 ************************