1 INFO-VAX	Sun, 07 Aug 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 437       Contents: Re: EFI is out to lunch  Re: EFI is out to lunch  Re: EFI is out to lunch ; Re: HP Pearl - HP Says Over 5,000 Applications on Integrity ; Re: HP Pearl - HP Says Over 5,000 Applications on Integrity F Re: OpenVMS under the umbrella - or umbrella is supported at the time?F Re: OpenVMS under the umbrella - or umbrella is supported at the time?F Re: OpenVMS under the umbrella - or umbrella is supported at the time?F Re: OpenVMS under the umbrella - or umbrella is supported at the time?E Re: OpenVMS under the umbrella - or umbrella is supported at thetime? E Re: OpenVMS under the umbrella - or umbrella is supported at thetime?  Re: OT: Re: LaTeX ---> PDF+ Re: strange terminal-characteristic problem + Re: strange terminal-characteristic problem + Re: strange terminal-characteristic problem + Re: strange terminal-characteristic problem + Re: strange terminal-characteristic problem   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 06 Aug 2005 21:04:04 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>   Subject: Re: EFI is out to lunch, Message-ID: <42F55E03.1FBEB516@teksavvy.com>   Robert Deininger wrote: L > I've NEVER seen this recommended, and if it does actually succeed in clearG > ALL the nvram, it would almost certainly mean a service call, maybe a L > motherboard swap.  There are a bunch of unique tokens programmed in duringC > manufacturing, and if they aren't right the firmware will object. L > Programming them requires access to manufacturing mode, which is protectedF > via a one-time password mechanism that isn't available to customers.    I Who was the genius who decided that removing the battery would render the  motherboard useless ?   K So, if you leave the system unplugged for long enough, the battery will die N and powering the machine back up will result in a comatosed system without the ability to boot ?     M On my all mighty Microvax II, removing the battery simply causes a prompt for  language and time.H On more modern VAXes, you lose some of the settings such as default bootN devices etc, but still doesn't come anywhere near having to call in support to restart your machine.     M Is the IA64 system's firmware stored in battery backed up memory, or in flash  memory ?   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 03:22:01 GMT 5 From: rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger)   Subject: Re: EFI is out to lunchL Message-ID: <rdeininger-0608052321590001@user-105n804.dialup.mindspring.com>  5 In article <42F55E03.1FBEB516@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei % <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:    >Robert Deininger wrote:M >> I've NEVER seen this recommended, and if it does actually succeed in clear H >> ALL the nvram, it would almost certainly mean a service call, maybe aM >> motherboard swap.  There are a bunch of unique tokens programmed in during D >> manufacturing, and if they aren't right the firmware will object.M >> Programming them requires access to manufacturing mode, which is protected G >> via a one-time password mechanism that isn't available to customers.  >  > J >Who was the genius who decided that removing the battery would render the >motherboard useless ?  E I didn't say that, did I?  I just said that I've never seen your idea F recommended (by anyone competent).  And I speculated about some of theB things that might go wrong if too much stuff is cleared out of the system's memory.    L >So, if you leave the system unplugged for long enough, the battery will dieO >and powering the machine back up will result in a comatosed system without the  >ability to boot ?  D If the battery goes dead, the data maintained by the battery will beI lost.  Yup.  I don't know off the top of my head what data depends on the 4 battery, and what is stored in less-volatile places.  H I did NOT say a dead battery would render the system unbootable.  I said there are risks.    N >On my all mighty Microvax II, removing the battery simply causes a prompt for >language and time. I >On more modern VAXes, you lose some of the settings such as default boot O >devices etc, but still doesn't come anywhere near having to call in support to  >restart your machine.  J Thanks for sharing your vast expertise with decades-old hardware.  In whatG way is it relevent here?  Do you actually know anything about Integrity : servers?  Have you ever used one?  Have you ever seen one?  F Most VAX systems have very little upgradeable firmware and very littleI volatile state information.  Hence there is little downside to losing all  the volatile stuff.   I Alphas have much more state that can be changed/upgraded after the system G is built, and correspondingly more risk than VAXes.  All but the oldest J Alphas have the fail-safe loader to help recover from outright loss of theH firmware.  But even the loss of all the environment variables is a majorJ PITA.  In practice, fixing up an Alpha system that's lost all its volatile1 state is a field service call for most customers.   H Integrity servers have a lot more volatile state than (most) Alphas, andD it appears to be a bit harder to load them from scratch.  There's noG fail-safe loader.  There's no 2-wire mini-console connected directly to H the CPU.  Power-on and self-test functions in the BMC depend on a lot of programmed parameters.  N >Is the IA64 system's firmware stored in battery backed up memory, or in flash	 >memory ?   E There are various flash parts in the system.  There are two copies of  everything vital.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 06 Aug 2005 23:54:36 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>   Subject: Re: EFI is out to lunch, Message-ID: <42F585ED.FD5A5392@teksavvy.com>   Robert Deininger wrote: L > >Who was the genius who decided that removing the battery would render the > >motherboard useless ? >  > I didn't say that, did I?    Here is what you had said:  L >>I've NEVER seen this recommended, and if it does actually succeed in clearG >>ALL the nvram, it would almost certainly mean a service call, maybe a L >>motherboard swap.  There are a bunch of unique tokens programmed in duringD >>manufacturing, and if they aren't right the firmware will object. L >>Programming them requires access to manufacturing mode, which is protectedF >>via a one-time password mechanism that isn't available to customers. >>H >>Please DON'T take the battery out unless a qualified HP service person >>recommends it.  L > Thanks for sharing your vast expertise with decades-old hardware.  In whatI > way is it relevent here?  Do you actually know anything about Integrity < > servers?  Have you ever used one?  Have you ever seen one?  K In most intelligently designed systems, loss of NVRAM results in some flash D code creating default values at next powerup, or prompting for them.  G > There are various flash parts in the system.  There are two copies of  > everything vital.     N And if it is done intelligently, there should be code to create default valuesL for NVRAM variables if NVRAM was zapped, at least to make the console usable: and reset to a known default state. (eg: factory default).    L You made allusion to special nvram tokens which if missing, would render theM motherboard useless and require field service with a special password. I call 
 that STUPID.    K If EFI is ever to make it mainstream, it needs to drop all that proprietary Q stuff that requires a field service call if the owner replaces the NVRAM battery.   L Having to re-enter your config, default boot drive, default boot parameters, system time etc is expected.    M Is that "special password" and HP-only thing, or is it common to IA64 systems M available from the few others who sell IA64 based systems ? If it is HP-only, L it is a terrible business practice, especially if this is not clearly statedJ in the bill of sales that the owner will need to pay HP for service if theH battery is every replaced since HP refuses to relinquish the passowrd to access the full system.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2005 21:35:22 -0400# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> D Subject: Re: HP Pearl - HP Says Over 5,000 Applications on Integrity4 Message-ID: <42f5666e$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net>   Main, Kerry wrote: >> -----Original Message----- 2 >> From: Bill Todd [mailto:billtodd@metrocast.net] >> Sent: August 6, 2005 4:06 AM  >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComG >> Subject: Re: HP Pearl - HP Says Over 5,000 Applications on Integrity  >>% >> susan_skonetski@hotmail.com wrote:  >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Skonetski, Susan) >>> Sent: Friday, August 05, 2005 6:23 PM ( >>> To: VMS-SIG@LISTSERV.ENCOMPASSUS.ORGD >>> Subject: HP Pearl - HP Says Over 5,000 Applications on Integrity >>> Servers - External Use >>>  >>>  >>> Dear Distribution lists, >>> = >>> Depending on when you read this email it's a great way to  >> end or start , >>> the week, not to mention its great news. >>> 5 >>> HP BCS has exceed our goal of Applications on VMS  >>1 >> Perhaps you meant 'Applications on Integrity'?  >> >>   and that includes. >>> applications on VMS, please take a look at >>> 6 >>> http://www.itjungle.com/tug/tug080405-story05.html >>G >> Indeed.  Of course, that 5,000+ application total appears to include F >> those on Unix and Windows Integrity platforms, so it's not all that? >> relevant here (and one could even wonder whether it includes 
 >> 32-bit x86 : >> applications that have merely been verified to run - or >> perhaps 'walk' 3 >> would be a better characterization - on Itanic).  >>= >> It might be interesting to know how many applications have  >> been ported& >> to VMS Integrity platforms, though. >>	 >> - bill  >> > F > Given that OpenVMS on Integrity has only "officially" been availableG > since January timeframe, I would say that the number of OpenVMS ports E > (planned and available) has been going very well. Keep in mind that E > some ISV's and Cust's prefer to start with official code - not beta  > releases.  >  > Check out the following:> > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/solutions/matrix/i64partner_A.html1 > (click on each letter for different vendor's..)     K How many of these VMS apps are from companies that used to have VMS apps in E the past and have come back to VMS because of the "industry standard"  processor it now runs on?   7 Think Sybase as an example that you might care to cite.      --F OpenVMS - The never-advertised operating system with the dwindling ISV base.       O ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- S http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups K ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2005 03:40:03 +01006 From: "Alex Daniels" <AlexNoSpamDaniels@themail.co.uk>D Subject: Re: HP Pearl - HP Says Over 5,000 Applications on Integrity6 Message-ID: <42f57484$0$21316$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>  5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message 7 news:3oydnQlScYAfbGnfRVn-rQ@metrocastcablevision.com...  > Main, Kerry wrote: <SNIP>G >> That's why I provided the url with the list of all the OpenVMS app's K >> available and planned on Integrity. Feel free to count them if you want   >> an absolute number. <SNIP>K > (which at least suggests that migration is being actively considered and  M > perhaps even being implemented, though not yet shipping and hence not part  M > of Marcello's 5000+ total), and not all that many 'availables' (the number  L > I was suggesting might be interesting, in view of Marcello's higher-level  > commentary on that subject). >  > - bill  
 Bill / Kerry,   B Thought I'd have a go at doing the count (based on HP's webpages).  L It is worth noting that some of the dates have passed and the pages have notK been updated with either the new expected date and/or the status changed to 
 available.  H Also the web pages from which my text is derived, do not have a standardL format for the planned date, so the results here are also have duplicates in different formats.  ? I offer no commentary on this result of the count, please note.   
 $ @appcounter  (4Q04) ISV apps on I64 :1  (3Q06) ISV apps on I64 :1  (Oct 2005) ISV apps on I64 :3  (Jun 2005) ISV apps on I64 :6  (2Q06) ISV apps on I64 :4  (Feb 2005) ISV apps on I64 :1  (Jan 2005) ISV apps on I64 :3  (Apr 2005) ISV apps on I64 :3  (Jan 2006) ISV apps on I64 :1  (Ready) ISV apps on I64 :1 (Nov 2005) ISV apps on I64 :3  (Aug 2005) ISV apps on I64 :6   ISV apps on I64 :5  (Jul 2005) ISV apps on I64 :2  (Dec 2005) ISV apps on I64 :2  (May 2005) ISV apps on I64 :5  (Sep 2005) ISV apps on I64 :1  (Feb 2006) ISV apps on I64 :1  (3Q05) ISV apps on I64 :44 (1Q06) ISV apps on I64 :13 (4Q05) ISV apps on I64 :53 (1Q05) ISV apps on I64 :39 (2Q05) ISV apps on I64 :52  , Total of above forthcoming (with date) : 2500 Total currently (Available) ISV apps on I64 :3331 Total (Planned) without date ISV apps on I64 :289   ' Total I64 apps out now or planned : 872  $   G I'll post the code in a separate mail, incase anyone wants to check for  themselves.    Alex     ------------------------------   Date: 6 Aug 2005 18:25:18 -0700  From: sean@obanion.us O Subject: Re: OpenVMS under the umbrella - or umbrella is supported at the time? C Message-ID: <1123377918.852856.108870@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>   : My balls still flash when I bounce them against the floor,1 but I realize that not everybody is in to that...        Sean   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 06 Aug 2005 21:23:26 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> O Subject: Re: OpenVMS under the umbrella - or umbrella is supported at the time? , Message-ID: <42F5628B.B9E1AE2D@teksavvy.com>  " susan_skonetski@hotmail.com wrote:I > And you are correct VMS is rock solid but alas VMS does not manufacture  > customer customer gifts.    I I have a red Compaq pen. Needs some servicing to tighten something in its P mechanism... Have considered calling HP to see if they would service the pen :-)  F > Speaking of the blinky balls.  Do you know if you drop them from theE > ZKO3-4 (4 flights of stairs) stair well they will crack in half and ; > there are two batteries inside.  This was done by trained  > professionals.  K Did VMS management get budget approval for this R&D project ?  How many man N hours were budgeted ? I take it the "trained professionals" were VMS engineersG who decided that bouncing their balls was more important than upgrading  X-windows ?    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Aug 2005 19:09:26 -0700 ! From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com O Subject: Re: OpenVMS under the umbrella - or umbrella is supported at the time? B Message-ID: <1123380566.284227.29650@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>  , This is what we call a midnight hack project   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 06 Aug 2005 22:07:45 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> O Subject: Re: OpenVMS under the umbrella - or umbrella is supported at the time? , Message-ID: <42F56CE9.D24AA7A8@teksavvy.com>  " Sue: marketing gimmick suggestion:  N Get a new batch of flashing balls, make sure they are slightly bigger than the original batch..    $ Then send them to the VMS customers.  H You can then make the marketing claim "VMS customers have bigger balls"    :-) :-) :-)   K (This, along with condoms with the VMS logo on it, along with the marketing $ slogan "always up when you need it".   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 06 Aug 2005 19:08:32 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>N Subject: Re: OpenVMS under the umbrella - or umbrella is supported at thetime?+ Message-ID: <42F55100.549EB24B@comcast.net>    Alan Greig wrote:  > $ > susan_skonetski@hotmail.com wrote: > H > > Speaking of the blinky balls.  Do you know if you drop them from theG > > ZKO3-4 (4 flights of stairs) stair well they will crack in half and = > > there are two batteries inside.  This was done by trained  > > professionals. > G > Shhhhh or you'll have get a load of balls in the post asking for this E > service. Suppose it will make a change from a load of balls in your G > email :-) I'm assuming you then change the batteries and glue the two  > halves back together?   G I suppose I could say that we'd like to see some VMS folks assert their  "balls", but...   D My umbrella usually lives in the bag that I carry to/from work. EvenD with the sheath on it, it's getting a bit worn. Could use a new one.   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 06 Aug 2005 21:06:45 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> N Subject: Re: OpenVMS under the umbrella - or umbrella is supported at thetime?+ Message-ID: <42F55EA3.E7021D2@teksavvy.com>    Alan Greig wrote: I > My umbrella still functions perfectly. However my balls don't flash any  > more when I bounce them.   See a urologist. :-)   ------------------------------  * Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2005 19:25:23 +0000 (UTC)P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)# Subject: Re: OT: Re: LaTeX ---> PDF $ Message-ID: <dd32r2$toq$2@online.de>  F In article <dd2c53$aih$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>, rf@cl.cam.ac.uk (Robin Fairbairns) writes:   K > >Having said that, don't get the impression that VMS today is the same as E > >it was 10 or 15 years ago.  Many new features have been added, and H > >continue to be added.  Compatibility remains, though: I'm running theF > >latest version of VMS on hardware which is more than 15 years old. I > >Also, an executable compiled under VMS 1.0 will still run today (on a  I > >VAX, of course, not on an ALPHA, though for normal user code you just    > >have to recompile for ALPHA). > A > gosh, really?  vms 1.0 was pretty primitive -- we had the first B > european release (1.6) and that didn't even have any native modeG > compilers (we used fortran, and it was rsx11m fortran with a replaced 7 > code generator, running in pdp11 compatibility mode).   G I haven't actually tried it, but have heard from reliable sources that  G that's the case.  I started with 5.5-2 in 1992; I'm now at 7.3 on VAX,  G which came out in 2002 or something.  My executable from ten years ago  
 still run.  D > leslie (last i heard) was working for m$ research: he may be thereE > still.  note that he's not really a text-processing person -- latex G > was a project to improve his own publications; he's really a computer G > science theorist, and aiui m$ research is rather strong in that area.   E Right.  Something he did on the side turned out to be more than many  ! people manage in a lifetime.  :-)    ------------------------------  * Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2005 19:20:40 +0000 (UTC)P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)4 Subject: Re: strange terminal-characteristic problem$ Message-ID: <dd32i8$toq$1@online.de>  F In article <42f4a0bc$0$4215$dbd45001@news.wanadoo.nl>, Alex van Denzel  <vandenzel@hotmail.com> writes:   1 > Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: - > > I SWAPPED THE TERMINALS: problem remains.  > : > The problem remains with the node, or with the terminal?  A With the node.  That is, with the system disk; I also replaced a   VAXstation with another one.   > Did you swap the MMJ Cables?   Yes, already tried that.  F > Reverse question marks usually mean framing error, or undisplayable  > character.  I Yes, in TPU for example.  But since CTRL-W makes things better, at least  1 sometimes, it looks like a communication problem.   2 > Are setups for all terminals the same (F3-Setup)   Yep.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 06 Aug 2005 19:04:32 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>4 Subject: Re: strange terminal-characteristic problem+ Message-ID: <42F55010.FF777D70@comcast.net>   / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:  > H > In article <42f4a0bc$0$4215$dbd45001@news.wanadoo.nl>, Alex van Denzel! > <vandenzel@hotmail.com> writes:  > 3 > > Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: / > > > I SWAPPED THE TERMINALS: problem remains.  > > < > > The problem remains with the node, or with the terminal? > B > With the node.  That is, with the system disk; I also replaced a > VAXstation with another one. >   > > Did you swap the MMJ Cables? >  > Yes, already tried that. > G > > Reverse question marks usually mean framing error, or undisplayable  > > character. > J > Yes, in TPU for example.  But since CTRL-W makes things better, at least3 > sometimes, it looks like a communication problem.  > 4 > > Are setups for all terminals the same (F3-Setup) >  > Yep.   O.k. Dumb question time:  < Does the data cable run close to anything that might produceB electromagnetic "noise"? ...*ANY* kind of noise? (A P.C. monitor, C another terminal, some other piece of electronic gear)? Does it run D parallel to a UTP cable? ...another network cable or high-speed dataB line (even E1/T1, ADSL or ISDN)? ...a power cable (since you're inC Europe (.de), the 240V power line throws more EMI than a US cord at  120VAC)?  G You said that the problem stays with the system disk. That is, when you H boot the troubled machine up as a different node, the problem goes away?F If you boot another machine up as the troubled node, the problem moves with the "system root"?    I'm not quite clear on that...  C I could see it staying with the machine if an async. i.f./mux. were 1 going bad internally (something becoming noisy).    E Does the VAX support an alternate console port, like some of the uVAX 
 3100's do?  C Do you see this same behavior outside of TPU? ...at the DCL prompt?  ...at the console prompt?    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 06 Aug 2005 20:53:04 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 4 Subject: Re: strange terminal-characteristic problem, Message-ID: <42F55B6F.5830CEB7@teksavvy.com>  / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: H > Yes, that's in SYS$SYLOGIN.  As I said, the output of SHOW TERMINAL is= > the same; all interactive processes go through SYS$SYLOGIN.      Do any applications work fine ?   9 does MON SYS work fine ? Or is that screwed up as well ?    4 Could you post the output of SHOW SYS for instance ?  + A pattern to the junk may yield some clues.       M Also, if you type a large text file, can you hold screen at any point for any  length of time ?  J (create a very large file full of a specific text that is 80 columns wide,M repeat the lines a few thousand times, and then type that file, you'll easily L see any stray or missing characters since the alignmentof text between lines
 will be off.)     L DECNET is supposed to be a reliable transport. So if you SET HOST <node>, it goes through decnet.   ------------------------------  * Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2005 05:07:08 +0000 (UTC)P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)4 Subject: Re: strange terminal-characteristic problem$ Message-ID: <dd44ts$and$2@online.de>  5 In article <42F55B6F.5830CEB7@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei ' <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:    1 > Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: J > > Yes, that's in SYS$SYLOGIN.  As I said, the output of SHOW TERMINAL is? > > the same; all interactive processes go through SYS$SYLOGIN.  > ! > Do any applications work fine ?  > ; > does MON SYS work fine ? Or is that screwed up as well ?    - Everything appears to work OK EXCEPT editing.   N > DECNET is supposed to be a reliable transport. So if you SET HOST <node>, it > goes through decnet.  H I don't yet have DECnet running.  If I set host via LAT or TELNET, then  everything works fine again.   ------------------------------  * Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2005 05:05:59 +0000 (UTC)P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)4 Subject: Re: strange terminal-characteristic problem$ Message-ID: <dd44rm$and$1@online.de>  < In article <42F55010.FF777D70@comcast.net>, David J Dachtera$ <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes:   > > Does the data cable run close to anything that might produceD > electromagnetic "noise"? ...*ANY* kind of noise? (A P.C. monitor, E > another terminal, some other piece of electronic gear)? Does it run F > parallel to a UTP cable? ...another network cable or high-speed dataD > line (even E1/T1, ADSL or ISDN)? ...a power cable (since you're inE > Europe (.de), the 240V power line throws more EMI than a US cord at 
 > 120VAC)?  G Remember the original Star Trek series?  Picture Scotty cramped inside  H the Jeffries tube.  [Scottisch accent]  "You're straining the dilithium E crystals, Captain.  I can give you power to the shields, but I can't  H give you warp drive."  My machine room looks similar.  Behind the shelf H where the computers are are of course several cables.  What puzzles me, G though, is that I see this problem only on the VAXstations, not on the  H other machines.  And at another location, with a standalone machine and F almost no cables, I also see the problem---but only with a VAXstation.  I > You said that the problem stays with the system disk. That is, when you J > boot the troubled machine up as a different node, the problem goes away?  I I replaced a VAXstation 4000/60 with a 4000/90A but with the same system   disk.  Problem stays.   G > Does the VAX support an alternate console port, like some of the uVAX  > 3100's do?   Not that I know of.   E > Do you see this same behavior outside of TPU? ...at the DCL prompt?  > ....at the console prompt?  : In EDT.  Not at the console prompt, not at the VMS prompt.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.437 ************************