1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 11 Aug 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 445       Contents:& $SHOW DEVICE/FILES enhancement request* Re: $SHOW DEVICE/FILES enhancement request* Re: $SHOW DEVICE/FILES enhancement request* Re: $SHOW DEVICE/FILES enhancement request* Re: $SHOW DEVICE/FILES enhancement request* Re: $SHOW DEVICE/FILES enhancement request Re: AS2100 with KZPBA  Re: AS2100 with KZPBA  Re: AS2100 with KZPBA / Re: Changing Uppercase filenames into Lowercase / Re: Changing Uppercase filenames into Lowercase  Re: DECnet-plus problem  Re: DECnet-plus problem ! Help Needed: Tape Backup Save Set % Re: Help Needed: Tape Backup Save Set % Re: Help Needed: Tape Backup Save Set % Re: Help Needed: Tape Backup Save Set % Re: Help Needed: Tape Backup Save Set % Re: Help Needed: Tape Backup Save Set % Re: Help Needed: Tape Backup Save Set % Re: Help Needed: Tape Backup Save Set % Re: Help Needed: Tape Backup Save Set % Re: Help Needed: Tape Backup Save Set % Re: Help Needed: Tape Backup Save Set % Re: Help Needed: Tape Backup Save Set % Re: Help Needed: Tape Backup Save Set % Re: Help Needed: Tape Backup Save Set % Re: Help Needed: Tape Backup Save Set % Re: Help Needed: Tape Backup Save Set % Re: Help Needed: Tape Backup Save Set % Re: Help Needed: Tape Backup Save Set % Re: Help Needed: Tape Backup Save Set % Re: Help Needed: Tape Backup Save Set % Re: Help Needed: Tape Backup Save Set : Re: Help Needed: Tape Backup Save Set (and [OT] Zip 2.3-1): Re: Help Needed: Tape Backup Save Set (and [OT] Zip 2.3-1)3 HP OpenVMS Hobbyist and Education programs web site 7 Re: HP OpenVMS Hobbyist and Education programs web site . RE: HP works to bring Linux to NonStop servers? Re: InformationWeek: Intel Says Itanium Chip Is Doing Just Fine ? Re: InformationWeek: Intel Says Itanium Chip Is Doing Just Fine ? Re: InformationWeek: Intel Says Itanium Chip Is Doing Just Fine ? Re: InformationWeek: Intel Says Itanium Chip Is Doing Just Fine ? Re: InformationWeek: Intel Says Itanium Chip Is Doing Just Fine ? Re: InformationWeek: Intel Says Itanium Chip Is Doing Just Fine  Re: Is OVMS going Bangalore? Re: Is OVMS going Bangalore?7 Re: Killing a process that has allocated the tape drive 7 Re: Killing a process that has allocated the tape drive 7 Re: Killing a process that has allocated the tape drive 7 Re: Killing a process that has allocated the tape drive 7 Re: Killing a process that has allocated the tape drive : Re: Mark Hurd to be keynote speaker at HP Technology Forum: Re: Mark Hurd to be keynote speaker at HP Technology ForumF Re: OpenVMS under the umbrella - or umbrella is supported at the time?F Re: OpenVMS under the umbrella - or umbrella is supported at the time?+ Re: strange terminal-characteristic problem  Re: Telnet over VPN  Re: Telnet over VPN  Re: Telnet over VPN   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 17:57:19 -0700 ( From: Jeff Cameron <roktsci@comcast.net>/ Subject: $SHOW DEVICE/FILES enhancement request 0 Message-ID: <BF1FF07F.121CC%roktsci@comcast.net>  H I have an enhancement request for the SHOW DEVICE/FILES command. I wouldK like to see the addition of the following two exclusive qualifiers, for use  in a Cluster environment:   / $SHOW DEVICE/FILES/NODE=(nodelist)  device-name    -and-   & $SHOW DEVICE/FILES/CLUSTER device-name  H The purpose should be obvious, being the ability to show files open on a% volume from other nodes in a cluster.     I appreciate your consideration.   Jeff Cameron   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 21:09:17 -0400 6 From: Brad Hamilton <brMadAhamPiltSon@coMmcaAstP.neSt>3 Subject: Re: $SHOW DEVICE/FILES enhancement request 0 Message-ID: <69qdnSEftv-gOGffRVn-pQ@comcast.com>   Jeff Cameron wrote: J > I have an enhancement request for the SHOW DEVICE/FILES command. I wouldM > like to see the addition of the following two exclusive qualifiers, for use  > in a Cluster environment:  > 1 > $SHOW DEVICE/FILES/NODE=(nodelist)  device-name  >  > -and-  > ( > $SHOW DEVICE/FILES/CLUSTER device-name > J > The purpose should be obvious, being the ability to show files open on a' > volume from other nodes in a cluster.  > " > I appreciate your consideration. >  > Jeff Cameron >   % I have no cluster to test with, but -   
 mcr sysman set env/cluster  do sho dev/files device-name  ? Will this do, or are you looking for a "programmatic" solution?    --   Bradford J. Hamilton "All opinions are my own" * "Lose the MAPS, and replace '-at-' with @"   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 21:57:49 -0400  From: norm.raphael@metso.com3 Subject: Re: $SHOW DEVICE/FILES enhancement request Q Message-ID: <OF798AA0E3.578D9117-ON8525705A.000AAE12-8525705A.000AF671@metso.com>   + This is a multipart message in MIME format. " --=_alternative 000AF66D8525705A_=, Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"  C Jeff Cameron <roktsci@comcast.net> wrote on 08/10/2005 08:57:19 PM:   J > I have an enhancement request for the SHOW DEVICE/FILES command. I wouldJ > like to see the addition of the following two exclusive qualifiers, for  use  > in a Cluster environment:  > 1 > $SHOW DEVICE/FILES/NODE=(nodelist)  device-name  >  > -and-  > ( > $SHOW DEVICE/FILES/CLUSTER device-name > J > The purpose should be obvious, being the ability to show files open on a' > volume from other nodes in a cluster.  >   > ISTM that SYSGEN with SET ENVIROMENT should do this just fine.  " > I appreciate your consideration.   Noted.   >  > Jeff Cameron >   " --=_alternative 000AF66D8525705A_=+ Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"      <br>F <br><font size=2><tt>Jeff Cameron &lt;roktsci@comcast.net&gt; wrote on 08/10/2005 08:57:19 PM:<br>  <br>G &gt; I have an enhancement request for the SHOW DEVICE/FILES command. I 	 would<br> H &gt; like to see the addition of the following two exclusive qualifiers, for use<br> " &gt; in a Cluster environment:<br>	 &gt; <br> = &gt; $SHOW DEVICE/FILES/NODE=(nodelist) &nbsp;device-name<br> 	 &gt; <br>  &gt; -and-<br>	 &gt; <br> / &gt; $SHOW DEVICE/FILES/CLUSTER device-name<br> 	 &gt; <br> H &gt; The purpose should be obvious, being the ability to show files open on a<br>. &gt; volume from other nodes in a cluster.<br> &gt; </tt></font>  <br>H <br><font size=2><tt>ISTM that SYSGEN with SET ENVIROMENT should do this just fine.</tt></font> <br><font size=2><tt><br> ) &gt; I appreciate your consideration.<br>  </tt></font>' <br><font size=2><tt>Noted.</tt></font>  <br> <br><font size=2><tt>&gt; <br> &gt; Jeff Cameron<br> 	 &gt; <br>  </tt></font>$ --=_alternative 000AF66D8525705A_=--   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 21:18:15 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>3 Subject: Re: $SHOW DEVICE/FILES enhancement request * Message-ID: <42FAB567.B068DDB@comcast.net>   norm.raphael@metso.com wrote:  > E > Jeff Cameron <roktsci@comcast.net> wrote on 08/10/2005 08:57:19 PM:  > F > > I have an enhancement request for the SHOW DEVICE/FILES command. I > would G > > like to see the addition of the following two exclusive qualifiers, 	 > for use  > > in a Cluster environment:  > > 3 > > $SHOW DEVICE/FILES/NODE=(nodelist)  device-name  > > 	 > > -and-  > > * > > $SHOW DEVICE/FILES/CLUSTER device-name > > G > > The purpose should be obvious, being the ability to show files open  > on a) > > volume from other nodes in a cluster.  > >  > @ > ISTM that SYSGEN with SET ENVIROMENT should do this just fine.   I think you mean SYSMAN.  $ > > I appreciate your consideration. >  > Noted.   Please don't MIME.   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 21:20:43 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>3 Subject: Re: $SHOW DEVICE/FILES enhancement request + Message-ID: <42FAB5FB.5251C3DB@comcast.net>    Brad Hamilton wrote: >  > Jeff Cameron wrote: L > > I have an enhancement request for the SHOW DEVICE/FILES command. I wouldO > > like to see the addition of the following two exclusive qualifiers, for use  > > in a Cluster environment:  > > 3 > > $SHOW DEVICE/FILES/NODE=(nodelist)  device-name  > > 	 > > -and-  > > * > > $SHOW DEVICE/FILES/CLUSTER device-name > > L > > The purpose should be obvious, being the ability to show files open on a) > > volume from other nodes in a cluster.  > > $ > > I appreciate your consideration. > >  > > Jeff Cameron > >  > ' > I have no cluster to test with, but -  >  > mcr sysman > set env/cluster  > do sho dev/files device-name   ...or how 'bout:   $ PIPE -$ 	(WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "SET ENV/CLU" ; -6 	 WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "DO SHOW DEV/FI ", DEVICE_NAME) | - 	RUN SYS$SYSTEM:SYSMAN   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 20:38:52 -0700 ( From: Jeff Cameron <roktsci@comcast.net>3 Subject: Re: $SHOW DEVICE/FILES enhancement request 0 Message-ID: <BF20165C.121F7%roktsci@comcast.net>  H On 8/10/05 6:09 PM, in article 69qdnSEftv-gOGffRVn-pQ@comcast.com, "Brad3 Hamilton" <brMadAhamPiltSon@coMmcaAstP.neSt> wrote:    > Jeff Cameron wrote: K >> I have an enhancement request for the SHOW DEVICE/FILES command. I would N >> like to see the addition of the following two exclusive qualifiers, for use >> in a Cluster environment: >>  2 >> $SHOW DEVICE/FILES/NODE=(nodelist)  device-name >>   >> -and- >>  ) >> $SHOW DEVICE/FILES/CLUSTER device-name  >>  K >> The purpose should be obvious, being the ability to show files open on a ( >> volume from other nodes in a cluster. >>  # >> I appreciate your consideration.  >>   >> Jeff Cameron  >>   > ' > I have no cluster to test with, but -  >  > mcr sysman > set env/cluster  > do sho dev/files device-name > A > Will this do, or are you looking for a "programmatic" solution?   F Sysman is the way I do it now, just as you have suggested, but I would prefer just the one command.  B About the other question, yes to that too, or more specifically...  G Does anyone have a program that will display the open I/O channels of a C process given a process id. I know how to do it via SYSMAN via SHOW 8 PROC/CHAN, but again, I would like a more simple method.   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Aug 2005 12:28:31 -0700$ From: "Ed Wilts" <ewilts@ewilts.org> Subject: Re: AS2100 with KZPBAC Message-ID: <1123702111.374113.206060@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   E > Can anybody clue me in as to how the embedded controller is getting 5 > booted off pka0 and becomes pkb0 once VMS comes up?   G It's not just SCSI that does this.  I had a heck of a time last weekend D with Ethernet controllers showing up as one controller letter in theC console and something different once the system comes up.  When you G have a mix of 10/100 NICs and GigE NICs, the problem gets even worse...   Yuck.  	    .../Ed    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 16:12:05 -0400 - From: William Webb <william.w.webb@gmail.com>  Subject: Re: AS2100 with KZPBA7 Message-ID: <8660a3a105081013124f1b39e5@mail.gmail.com>   B On 10 Aug 2005 12:28:31 -0700, Ed Wilts <ewilts@ewilts.org> wrote:G > > Can anybody clue me in as to how the embedded controller is getting 7 > > booted off pka0 and becomes pkb0 once VMS comes up?  >=20I > It's not just SCSI that does this.  I had a heck of a time last weekend F > with Ethernet controllers showing up as one controller letter in theE > console and something different once the system comes up.  When you I > have a mix of 10/100 NICs and GigE NICs, the problem gets even worse...  >  Yuck. >=20
 >   .../Ed >=20 >=20A It has to do with how the system walks the PCI bus.  And for some B systems, there's a SYSGEN parameter which changes the method used.  F There's a post in comp.os.vms about this for AlphaServer 4xxx systems,6 and that's the particular from which I'm generalizing.   WWWEbb   --=20 C NOTE: This email address is only used for noncommerical VMS-related  correspondence. C All unsolicited commercial email will be deemed to be a request for 8 services pursuant to the terms and conditions located at# http://bellsouthpwp.net/w/e/webbww/    ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 00:22:49 +0000 (UTC) 7 From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)  Subject: Re: AS2100 with KZPBA( Message-ID: <dde5op$902$1@pcls4.std.com>  E > Can anybody clue me in as to how the embedded controller is getting 5 > booted off pka0 and becomes pkb0 once VMS comes up?   I I think that some consoles have a console variable (bus_probe_algorithm?) C which changes how the busses are scanned.  It may not have you keep 6 dka0 as dka0, but perhaps it may start it off as dkb0.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 18:47:42 -0700 ! From: Fred Bach <music@triumf.ca> 8 Subject: Re: Changing Uppercase filenames into Lowercase( Message-ID: <42FAAE3E.9090807@triumf.ca>   Bob,  :    $set process/parse_style=extended          works GREAT!  ;    Thanks very much!  I just had this feeling I was missing     something very simple.   ?    Rename ZSEARCH.COM ZSearch.COM  now works exactly correctly. <    I don't need the rename &old_filename &new_filename trick?    any more (which DOES work with the Traditional parse style).   =    It appears that the search for the filename is case-blind, :    but the renaming is case-true (if I may coin a phrase).  <    I believe we have eliminated the disks here which are not>    ODS-5, so I might as well catch up with the times and stick    that in my login.com.      Thanks again.  #    .. Fred Bach ..  music@triumf.ca      Bob Koehler wrote:L > In article <42F95637.50700@triumf.ca>, Fred Bach <music@triumf.ca> writes: >  > ; >>  I already found MAKEUP.COM which breaks down a filename ; >>  into its parts (device,directory,name,type,version) and 9 >>  uses the RENAME command to rename lowercase names and  >>  types to uppercase.  >  > [...]  > 9 >>  The filename remains uppercase because DCL uppercases < >>  everything on MAKEUP.COM's RENAME line.  And, the RENAME; >>  line in MAKEUP.COM does not seem to work with quotation ' >>  marks around the lowercase portion.  >  > [...]  > 8 >>  But am I missing something easy?  Is there any other5 >>  way to easily rename filenames to lowercase?  Has : >>  something just zipped right over my head?  Searches on= >>  google.com and Openvms.org didn't produce useful results. 6 >>  Can the CONVERT command be used to do what I want? >  > : >    To get DCL to use lowercase filenames you must enter ) >       $set process/parse_style=extended F >    such as many of us now have in our login.com.  Then commands such3 >    as RENAME will try to honor the case as given.  > H >    To rename a file and have only the case of the name change you mustI >    purge down to one version or rename all versions to a temporary name H >    then to the name with only the case changed.  VMS will not make oneC >    version of many with a different case than the other versions.  > 8 >    And of course, this is assuming you're using ODS-5. >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 21:09:52 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>8 Subject: Re: Changing Uppercase filenames into Lowercase+ Message-ID: <42FAB370.1FE59D73@comcast.net>    Fred Bach wrote: >  > Dear c.o.v. list,  > ; >   I already found MAKEUP.COM which breaks down a filename ; >   into its parts (device,directory,name,type,version) and 9 >   uses the RENAME command to rename lowercase names and  >   types to uppercase.  > ; >   I tried a simple modification which supplied the second ; >   argument to the RENAME command inside MAKEUP.COM with a + >   lowercase filename. This DOES NOT WORK.  > 9 >   The filename remains uppercase because DCL uppercases < >   everything on MAKEUP.COM's RENAME line.  And, the RENAME; >   line in MAKEUP.COM does not seem to work with quotation ' >   marks around the lowercase portion.  > : >   I haven't yet found any combination of quotation marks> >   that works with the RENAME or CREATE commands.  Ideas such9 >   as RENAME "FRED.TMP" "fred.tmp" do not work, nor does = >   CREATE "fred.tmp".  Specifying an FDL file with lowercase < >   filename works, and it does create a lowercase filename,= >   but that is a very cumbersome approach as I would have to < >   ANALYSE/RMS/FDL every file and then edit the FDL file toA >   put the filename spec into lowercase, and then use CREATE/FDL = >   to create a new but empty lowercase file and then I would = >   have to append the original uppercase file into that, and = >   then delete the original uppercase file.  That seems far, " >   far too complicated and bulky. > . >   However, I did stumble across this method: > * >       RENAME &old_filename &new_filename > < >   works just fine where the symbol old_filename represents8 >   the uppercase equivalent and the symbol new_filename> >   contains the lowercase equivalent.  The ampersand operator< >   prevents DCL from translating the symbol until after the= >   command line is parsed, thus preventing the conversion of 4 >   the new_filename symbol's contents to uppercase. > 4 >   Using this technique, I modified MAKEUP.COM into= >   MAKELOWER.COM, removed one bug, and it works very well to ; >   rename a whole directory full of schedules to lowercase 5 >   filenames which I can then directly FTP over to a : >   case-sensitive linux-based webserver with the MPUT FTP< >   command. This allows me to match a meta-standard that we@ >   seem to have here about lowercase filenames on some servers. > 9 >   I can send MAKELOWER.COM to whomever wants a copy for 7 >   evaluation.  I am not sure that it is bug-free yet.  > 8 >   But am I missing something easy?  Is there any other5 >   way to easily rename filenames to lowercase?  Has : >   something just zipped right over my head?  Searches on= >   google.com and Openvms.org didn't produce useful results.   G Most FTP clients for VMS seem to convert upper to lower when the target  is non-VMS for me.  6 >   Can the CONVERT command be used to do what I want?  F Sure, using the other suggestions about how to state filespec's on the
 command line.    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 21:14:11 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>  Subject: Re: DECnet-plus problem+ Message-ID: <42FAB472.FFB0E4F8@comcast.net>    mb301@hotmail.com wrote: > I > Have a strange problem with Compaq DECnet-Plus V7.2-1 ECO06 16-SEP-2002  >  > $ set host 1.4 > welcome to alpha1 etc... >  > Username:  >  > $ set host alpha1  > welcome to alpha1 etc... >  > Username:  > 
 > $ dir 1.4:: 5 > %DIRECT-E-OPENIN, error opening 1.4::*.*;* as input 1 > -RMS-E-FND, ACP file or directory lookup failed ? > -SYSTEM-F-UNREACHABLE, remote node is not currently reachable  >  > $ dir alpha1::8 > %DIRECT-E-OPENIN, error opening alpha1::*.*;* as input1 > -RMS-E-FND, ACP file or directory lookup failed ? > -SYSTEM-F-UNREACHABLE, remote node is not currently reachable  > = > Have no idea of what to check can anyone give any pointers?   F DECnet addresses aren't usually specified using the area.node notationF when used in filespec.'s. They're usually stated in SCSSYSTEMID format of (area *1024)+node.   7 So in your case, 1029:: should be the same as ALPHA1::.   8 The parsing routines may differ between RTPAD and (RMS).   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 21:23:43 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>  Subject: Re: DECnet-plus problem+ Message-ID: <42FAB6AF.F84CEE05@comcast.net>    David J Dachtera wrote:  > [SNIP]9 > So in your case, 1029:: should be the same as ALPHA1::.    Make that 1028::   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Aug 2005 15:32:35 -0700( From: "Chris Allen" <ca.allen@gmail.com>* Subject: Help Needed: Tape Backup Save SetB Message-ID: <1123713155.901351.57190@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>  G     Is it possible to determine what save sets are on a tape, or to get B a backup/list of a save set on tape without knowing what that saveG set(s) file name is?  I'm a newbie to VMS and after setting up a backup F system I was very dissapointed to realize I couldn't restore files offC of tape unless I had the corresponding log files that would tell me G save set file name on the tape (the name is generated according to node < name, date, etc. therefore it's not the same on every tape).A    When I do a "backup/list {tape device}:" or "backup/list {tape F device}:[000000]" I always get "No files found".  I must manually do aE "backup/list {tape device}:{save set}".  But what if I don't know the 3 save set?  Anyone know the answer to this?  Thanks.    ------------------------------    Date: 10 Aug 2005 16:01:06 -0700 From: dooleys@snowy.net.au. Subject: Re: Help Needed: Tape Backup Save SetB Message-ID: <1123714799.824089.71220@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   backup/list mkc0:*/sav Phil   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 19:05:51 -0400 - From: William Webb <william.w.webb@gmail.com> . Subject: Re: Help Needed: Tape Backup Save Set7 Message-ID: <8660a3a10508101605299d17b8@mail.gmail.com>   F On 10 Aug 2005 15:32:35 -0700, Chris Allen <ca.allen@gmail.com> wrote:I >     Is it possible to determine what save sets are on a tape, or to get D > a backup/list of a save set on tape without knowing what that saveI > set(s) file name is?  I'm a newbie to VMS and after setting up a backup H > system I was very dissapointed to realize I couldn't restore files offE > of tape unless I had the corresponding log files that would tell me I > save set file name on the tape (the name is generated according to node > > name, date, etc. therefore it's not the same on every tape).C >    When I do a "backup/list {tape device}:" or "backup/list {tape H > device}:[000000]" I always get "No files found".  I must manually do aG > "backup/list {tape device}:{save set}".  But what if I don't know the 5 > save set?  Anyone know the answer to this?  Thanks.  >=20 >=20   It all depends.   	 If you=20    MOUNT/OVER=3DID tape_device    you can then=20    DIR tape_device:[]  7 This will give you a list of files on the tape, if any.   	 If you=20   $ MOUNT/FOREIGN tape_device tape_label  
 You can=20   BACKUP/LIST tape_device:*   / and use whatever qualifiers, such as /OUTPUT=3D   F This will give you a listing of the files in each saveset on the tape,* along with information about each saveset.  L If I haven't explained it well enough, the commands HELP BACKUP and HELP MO= UNT 6 will give you more information about MOUNT and BACKUP.  D We like newbies, especially those who can ask questions that containC enough information to make answers possible without guessing or the @ invocation of ESP.  Please feel free to post again when you have
 questions.   WWWebb.   	 WWWebb=20  --=20 C NOTE: This email address is only used for noncommerical VMS-related  correspondence. C All unsolicited commercial email will be deemed to be a request for 8 services pursuant to the terms and conditions located at# http://bellsouthpwp.net/w/e/webbww/    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 19:11:42 -0400 2 From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com>. Subject: Re: Help Needed: Tape Backup Save Set/ Message-ID: <42FA516E.25230.142E3634@localhost>   + On 10 Aug 2005 at 15:32, Chris Allen wrote: ) > But what if I don't know the save set?    % $ MOUNT/OVER=ID MKA0:   (or whatever)  $ DIRECTORY MKA0:  $ DISMOUNT MKA0:  : When you mount the tape, you'll find it's file-structured!  C You can also use "COPY *.* DKA100:[XYZ]" (or whatever) to copy the  F savesets.  You can then play with them at your leisure.  Don't forget # to specify "/SAVE_SET" to BACKUP...     
 --Stan Quayle  Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------- Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363 3 8572 North Spring Ct., Pickerington, OH  43147  USA 0 stan-at-stanq-dot-com       http://www.stanq.com) "OpenVMS, when downtime is not an option"    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 19:04:39 -0400 6 From: Brad Hamilton <brMadAhamPiltSon@coMmcaAstP.neSt>. Subject: Re: Help Needed: Tape Backup Save Set0 Message-ID: <eoudnfLW1OiUFWffRVn-oQ@comcast.com>   Chris Allen wrote:I >     Is it possible to determine what save sets are on a tape, or to get D > a backup/list of a save set on tape without knowing what that saveI > set(s) file name is?  I'm a newbie to VMS and after setting up a backup H > system I was very dissapointed to realize I couldn't restore files offE > of tape unless I had the corresponding log files that would tell me I > save set file name on the tape (the name is generated according to node > > name, date, etc. therefore it's not the same on every tape).C >    When I do a "backup/list {tape device}:" or "backup/list {tape H > device}:[000000]" I always get "No files found".  I must manually do aG > "backup/list {tape device}:{save set}".  But what if I don't know the 5 > save set?  Anyone know the answer to this?  Thanks.  >   # $backup/list (tape device)/save_set $                            ^^^^^^^^^  G You don't need to know the saveset name.  The saveset name will appear  A in the first "record" on the tape, along with other information.  = Following the "savset record" will be a listing of the files:   * $backup/list mindisk:[backup]dka0.bck/save Listing of save set(s)   Save set:          dka0.bck  Written by:        BRAD " UIC:               [000001,000005]* Date:               9-AUG-2005 17:16:57.55E Command:           BACKUP/BLOCK=65024/IGNO=INTE/IMAGE sys$sysdevice:   mindisk:[backup]dka0.bck/SAVE - Operating system:  OpenVMS Alpha version V7.3  BACKUP version:    AXP72R001 CPU ID register:   80000000  Node name:         _RABBIT::" Written on:        _RABBIT$DKA100: Block size:        32256 Group size:        10  Buffer count:      4870    Image save of volume set Number of volumes: 1   Volume attributes  Structure level:   5 Label:             RABBIT_0732 Owner:" Owner UIC:         [000001,000001]* Creation date:     27-DEC-2002 13:14:07.61 Total blocks:      71687369  Access count:      3 Cluster size:      69 $ Data check:        No Read, No Write Extension size:    5< File protection:   System:RWED, Owner:RWED, Group:RE, World: Maximum files:     512052 B Volume protection: System:RWCD, Owner:RWCD, Group:RWCD, World:RWCD Windows:           7  > [000000]000000.DIR;1                                        5  27-DEC-2002 13:14  [000000]ANUNEWS.DIR;1  --   Bradford J. Hamilton "All opinions are my own" * "Lose the MAPS, and replace '-at-' with @"   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 18:53:26 -0500 (CDT) * From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda). Subject: Re: Help Needed: Tape Backup Save Set2 Message-ID: <05081018532608_20200298@antinode.org>  6 From: Brad Hamilton <brMadAhamPiltSon@coMmcaAstP.neSt>  % > $backup/list (tape device)/save_set % >                           ^^^^^^^^^   H   If anyone ever finds a case where /SAVE_SET is actually required for a( tape device, please provide the details.  D    It may be a helpful habit to cultivate so you don't need to thinkF when working with save sets on disk, but I've never found it necessaryA on a tape device.  "HELP BACKUP_Command /SAVE_SET" (V7.3-1) says:   F      You must specify the /SAVE_SET qualifier when the input or output7      specifier is a BACKUP save set on a Files-11 disk.   H Now this doesn't explicitly say that it's the default for a tape device,D but I'll be waiting for a counter-example, and I won't be holding my breath.   H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode-org     Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 20:53:32 -0400 6 From: Brad Hamilton <brMadAhamPiltSon@coMmcaAstP.neSt>. Subject: Re: Help Needed: Tape Backup Save Set0 Message-ID: <wqCdnQbg6toTPGffRVn-hA@comcast.com>   Steven M. Schweda wrote:8 > From: Brad Hamilton <brMadAhamPiltSon@coMmcaAstP.neSt> > % >>$backup/list (tape device)/save_set % >>                          ^^^^^^^^^  >  > J >   If anyone ever finds a case where /SAVE_SET is actually required for a* > tape device, please provide the details. >   H I remember that back in the VMS 5.* days, this used to be a requirement.  : I got in the habit back then, and haven't looked back.	:-)  A I know some of our Operations folks in the V7.1 era had problems  A restoring files from tape savesets without /SAVE_SET, and had no  . problems restoring files _with_ the qualifier.  D I have no tape drives with which to test your assertion - I have no $ doubt that you are correct, however.  I You'll notice, however, that almost all the other answers in this thread  A have specified /SAVE_SET as an output qualifier for tape devices.   ) Can 50 million VMS manglers be wrong?	:-)    <snip>   --   Bradford J. Hamilton "All opinions are my own" * "Lose the MAPS, and replace '-at-' with @"   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Aug 2005 18:27:06 -0700$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>. Subject: Re: Help Needed: Tape Backup Save SetC Message-ID: <1123723626.471460.206990@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    Brad Hamilton wrote: > Steven M. Schweda wrote:: > > From: Brad Hamilton <brMadAhamPiltSon@coMmcaAstP.neSt> > > ' > >>$backup/list (tape device)/save_set ' > >>                          ^^^^^^^^^  > >  > > L > >   If anyone ever finds a case where /SAVE_SET is actually required for a, > > tape device, please provide the details. > >  > J > I remember that back in the VMS 5.* days, this used to be a requirement.    A I don't remember this ever being a requirement. In jobs I've used G systems as old as 5.4-1. In graduate school I used v3, v4, and v5.0 and - don't remember needing it there either, IIRC.    Are you sure about this?   [...]    ------------------------------    Date: 10 Aug 2005 18:39:53 -0700$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>. Subject: Re: Help Needed: Tape Backup Save SetC Message-ID: <1123724392.988751.133000@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    William Webb wrote: H > On 10 Aug 2005 15:32:35 -0700, Chris Allen <ca.allen@gmail.com> wrote: [...] E > >    When I do a "backup/list {tape device}:" or "backup/list {tape J > > device}:[000000]" I always get "No files found".  I must manually do aI > > "backup/list {tape device}:{save set}".  But what if I don't know the 7 > > save set?  Anyone know the answer to this?  Thanks.  [...]  > F > We like newbies, especially those who can ask questions that containE > enough information to make answers possible without guessing or the B > invocation of ESP.  Please feel free to post again when you have > questions.  A Well, it would have helped if he had simply copied and pasted his B session. His first effort, BACKUP/LIST <tape-device>:, should haveG worked! It would be nice to see what really happened as opposed to what  he told us happened.   > 	 > WWWebb.  >  > WWWebb > --E > NOTE: This email address is only used for noncommerical VMS-related  > correspondence. E > All unsolicited commercial email will be deemed to be a request for : > services pursuant to the terms and conditions located at% > http://bellsouthpwp.net/w/e/webbww/    ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 20:14:52 -0500 (CDT) * From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda). Subject: Re: Help Needed: Tape Backup Save Set2 Message-ID: <05081020145239_20200298@antinode.org>  6 From: Brad Hamilton <brMadAhamPiltSon@coMmcaAstP.neSt>  ' > >>$backup/list (tape device)/save_set ' > >>                          ^^^^^^^^^  > > L > >   If anyone ever finds a case where /SAVE_SET is actually required for a, > > tape device, please provide the details. > J > I remember that back in the VMS 5.* days, this used to be a requirement.  7    Those are details?  In any case, you mean like this?   , WIMP $ write sys$output f$getsyi( "VERSION") V5.4    WIMP $ backup /noass /list mua0: Listing of save set(s)  * %MOUNT-I-WRITELOCK, volume is write locked/ %MOUNT-I-MOUNTED, WUSS02 mounted on _WIMP$MUA0: C %BACKUP-W-NOT1STVOL, MUA0:[000000].; is not the start of a save set   ( Save set:          WUSS062.BCK, volume 2 Written by:        SYSTEM " UIC:               [000010,000040]* Date:              28-MAY-2000 13:42:19.97= Command:           BAC/VER/IMA DKA200: MKA100:WUSS062.BCK/REW ' Operating system:  VAX/VMS version V6.2 $ BACKUP version:    V6.2 (standalone) CPU ID register:   0A000005 " Written on:        _SABKUP$MKA100: Block size:        8192  Group size:        10  Buffer count:      223   Image save of volume set Number of volumes: 1  P [VMS$COMMON.SYSEXE]SYS.STB;1                              199  15-MAY-1995 11:14 [...]      WIMP $ show device /full MUA0:  I Magtape WIMP$MUA0:, device type TK50, is online, allocated, deallocate on  [...]   D    And I remember _not_ needing it since at least as far back as VMS V5.0.   < > I got in the habit back then, and haven't looked back.	:-)      Apparently.  C > I know some of our Operations folks in the V7.1 era had problems  C > restoring files from tape savesets without /SAVE_SET, and had no  0 > problems restoring files _with_ the qualifier.  ?    Sure you do.  Sure they did.  I'll believe it when I see it.   F > I have no tape drives with which to test your assertion - I have no & > doubt that you are correct, however.  G    That's strange.  I was beginning to think that you were disputing my  claim.  K > You'll notice, however, that almost all the other answers in this thread  C > have specified /SAVE_SET as an output qualifier for tape devices.   G    And just how much help do you think that that was to the fellow with @ the problem?  (Hint: Did he complain about an error message likeF "%BACKUP-F-LISINPSAV, /LIST requires save set as input", or did he ask: about "No files found"?)  And it was an _input_ qualifier.  + > Can 50 million VMS manglers be wrong?	:-)   B    Well, let's look at the record.  When I first reported here theB long-time problem of Zip "-V" archives not working well on non-VMSG systems, how many of them said, "Gee, Steve, good catch.", and how many F chanted, "But that's not _supposed_ to work!" and/or "But that _can't_G work!"?  As I recall, the ratio was approximately 0:several.  I'm still F waiting for the (inevitable) flood of complaints from the users of Zip/ 2.31 and up when they discover that I broke it.   H    And I'm still waiting for a counter-example on /SAVE_SET, and I still won't be holding my breath.   H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode-org     Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------    Date: 10 Aug 2005 18:37:06 -0700$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>. Subject: Re: Help Needed: Tape Backup Save SetB Message-ID: <1123724226.008480.22110@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   Chris Allen wrote:E > Is it possible to determine what save sets are on a tape, or to get D > a backup/list of a save set on tape without knowing what that saveI > set(s) file name is?  I'm a newbie to VMS and after setting up a backup H > system I was very dissapointed to realize I couldn't restore files offE > of tape unless I had the corresponding log files that would tell me I > save set file name on the tape (the name is generated according to node > > name, date, etc. therefore it's not the same on every tape).C >    When I do a "backup/list {tape device}:" or "backup/list {tape H > device}:[000000]" I always get "No files found".  I must manually do aG > "backup/list {tape device}:{save set}".  But what if I don't know the 5 > save set?  Anyone know the answer to this?  Thanks.   F Hmmm. This is indeed strange. Could you repeat this and copy and pasteA it for us to see first hand? It should have worked (well, the one  without the [000000] appended).       $ MOUNT/FOREIGN MKA0:    $ BACKUP/LIST MKA0:  F for example, will list the next save set on the tape. If you ^Y in theG middle of a save set, repeating the same BACKUP command will advance to D the beginning of the next save set on tape and list it. You can listE the save sets one by one by simply repeating the BACKUP command given  above.      $ BACKUP/LIST MKA0:*/REWIND  > will list all save sets on the tape. (You only need the rewind/ qualifier if you are not at beginning of tape.)   F Note that /LIST will list all the files in said save sets. If you want  just the names of the save sets,   $ MOUNT/OVER=ID MKA0:  $ DIRECTORY MKA0:   F I remember having a peculiar problem with certain save set names whichG were very long. I think quotation marks were somehow involved, or I was D using the wrong wildcarded string, or there was no file type, or theE save set name was too long but BACKUP truncated it and used it anyway A or whatever (sorry, I don't remember what version). Maybe you are E having a similar problem. If you post your failed efforts, perhaps we  can find out what went wrong.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 22:12:44 -0400 6 From: Brad Hamilton <brMadAhamPiltSon@coMmcaAstP.neSt>. Subject: Re: Help Needed: Tape Backup Save SetE Message-ID: <VICdnZ2dnZ1kbpC0nZ2dnYApZ9-dnZ2dRVn-zJ2dnZ0@comcast.com>    Steven M. Schweda wrote:8 > From: Brad Hamilton <brMadAhamPiltSon@coMmcaAstP.neSt> > ' >>>>$backup/list (tape device)/save_set & >>>>                         ^^^^^^^^^ >>> K >>>  If anyone ever finds a case where /SAVE_SET is actually required for a + >>>tape device, please provide the details.  >>J >>I remember that back in the VMS 5.* days, this used to be a requirement. >  > 9 >    Those are details?  In any case, you mean like this?   I They are "details" for me - since I have no access to v5.* any more, and  H since I had problems restoring files _without_ using /SAVE_SET, and had B _no_ problems restoring files _with_ /SAVE_SET, this is what I am B reporting to you.  Sorry if it doesn't tally with your experience.   > . > WIMP $ write sys$output f$getsyi( "VERSION") > V5.4 > " > WIMP $ backup /noass /list mua0: > Listing of save set(s) > , > %MOUNT-I-WRITELOCK, volume is write locked1 > %MOUNT-I-MOUNTED, WUSS02 mounted on _WIMP$MUA0: E > %BACKUP-W-NOT1STVOL, MUA0:[000000].; is not the start of a save set  > * > Save set:          WUSS062.BCK, volume 2 > Written by:        SYSTEM $ > UIC:               [000010,000040], > Date:              28-MAY-2000 13:42:19.97? > Command:           BAC/VER/IMA DKA200: MKA100:WUSS062.BCK/REW ) > Operating system:  VAX/VMS version V6.2 & > BACKUP version:    V6.2 (standalone) > CPU ID register:   0A000005 $ > Written on:        _SABKUP$MKA100: > Block size:        8192  > Group size:        10  > Buffer count:      223 >  > Image save of volume set > Number of volumes: 1 > R > [VMS$COMMON.SYSEXE]SYS.STB;1                              199  15-MAY-1995 11:14 > [...]  >  >   > WIMP $ show device /full MUA0: > K > Magtape WIMP$MUA0:, device type TK50, is online, allocated, deallocate on  > [...]  > F >    And I remember _not_ needing it since at least as far back as VMS > V5.0.  >   H Good - but can you reproduce this behavior consistently?  My experience H showed me at the time that using /save_set allowed me to _consistently_ F restore files without error, while others in the same environment who % did _not_ use /save_set had problems.    <snip>  C >>I know some of our Operations folks in the V7.1 era had problems  C >>restoring files from tape savesets without /SAVE_SET, and had no  0 >>problems restoring files _with_ the qualifier. >  > A >    Sure you do.  Sure they did.  I'll believe it when I see it.  >   G Again, my experience - please don't tell me that I _didn't_ experience  % this behavior.  Were you there???	:-)    <snip>  K >>You'll notice, however, that almost all the other answers in this thread  C >>have specified /SAVE_SET as an output qualifier for tape devices.  >  > I >    And just how much help do you think that that was to the fellow with B > the problem?  (Hint: Did he complain about an error message likeH > "%BACKUP-F-LISINPSAV, /LIST requires save set as input", or did he ask< > about "No files found"?)  And it was an _input_ qualifier. >   H My fault - I'm used to referring to /save_set as an output qualifier on C backup, not restore.  /Save_set is of course an input qualifier on  C restore.  Oops.  Still, many replies to this thread have specified  H /SAVE_SET, and there is nothing _preventing_ someone from using it.  So 9 it's pedantic.  So it's overkill.  It works.  'Nuff said.   H All I'm really trying to say here is that it is my _belief_ that BACKUP G sometimes produces "funny" behavior in the "restore" and "list" "modes" I if the /SAVE_SET qualifier is not used.  I've seen such behavior, enough  F times to make sure that I always use /save_set.  I've yet to "lose" a D file for a customer by adhering to this behavior.  I've seen others > "lose" files for customers in this way, and have been able to 9 subsequently retrieve files previously considered "lost".    > + >>Can 50 million VMS manglers be wrong?	:-)  > D >    Well, let's look at the record.  When I first reported here theD > long-time problem of Zip "-V" archives not working well on non-VMSI > systems, how many of them said, "Gee, Steve, good catch.", and how many H > chanted, "But that's not _supposed_ to work!" and/or "But that _can't_I > work!"?  As I recall, the ratio was approximately 0:several.  I'm still H > waiting for the (inevitable) flood of complaints from the users of Zip1 > 2.31 and up when they discover that I broke it.  >   F I haven't seen any breakage, and have used Zip 2.3-1 for a while now. F   Thanks.	:-)  I've probably not been able to find a mode in which to  break it, of course.  J >    And I'm still waiting for a counter-example on /SAVE_SET, and I still > won't be holding my breath.  >   F I'm sorry my humble experience does not count - but it did happen.  I I never documented it at the time, because I did not know of the existence  J of c.o.v., or that someone would challenge my experience as non-valid.	:-)   --   Bradford J. Hamilton "All opinions are my own" * "Lose the MAPS, and replace '-at-' with @"   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 19:25:12 -0700  From: Z <Z@no.spam> . Subject: Re: Help Needed: Tape Backup Save Set) Message-ID: <9GyKe.3177$vb3.734@fe07.lga>    William Webb wrote: 	 > If you  & > MOUNT/FOREIGN tape_device tape_label
 > You can  > BACKUP/LIST tape_device:*   > If you're going to use BACKUP, let VMS mount the tape for you.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 21:26:39 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>. Subject: Re: Help Needed: Tape Backup Save Set+ Message-ID: <42FAB75F.2EAD8A7D@comcast.net>    Brad Hamilton wrote: >  > Steven M. Schweda wrote:: > > From: Brad Hamilton <brMadAhamPiltSon@coMmcaAstP.neSt> > > ) > >>>>$backup/list (tape device)/save_set ( > >>>>                         ^^^^^^^^^ > >>> M > >>>  If anyone ever finds a case where /SAVE_SET is actually required for a - > >>>tape device, please provide the details.  > >>L > >>I remember that back in the VMS 5.* days, this used to be a requirement. > >  > > ; > >    Those are details?  In any case, you mean like this?  > J > They are "details" for me - since I have no access to v5.* any more, andI > since I had problems restoring files _without_ using /SAVE_SET, and had C > _no_ problems restoring files _with_ /SAVE_SET, this is what I am D > reporting to you.  Sorry if it doesn't tally with your experience.  F It also conflicts with the on-line help and the printed documentation.   $ help backup /save    BACKUP     /SAVE_SET   '      Input or Output Save-Set Qualifier   @      Defines the input or output specifier as a BACKUP save set.C      Normally, BACKUP treats specifiers that refer to disk files as E      Files-11 files and specifiers that refer to tapes as BACKUP save 
      sets.  F      You must specify the /SAVE_SET qualifier when the input or output7      specifier is a BACKUP save set on a Files-11 disk.    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 21:28:34 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>. Subject: Re: Help Needed: Tape Backup Save Set+ Message-ID: <42FAB7D2.150E22D0@comcast.net>    Z wrote: >  > William Webb wrote: 
 > > If you( > > MOUNT/FOREIGN tape_device tape_label  C "label" is optional for /FOREIGN, but will be checked if specified.    > > You can  > > BACKUP/LIST tape_device:*  > @ > If you're going to use BACKUP, let VMS mount the tape for you.  0 Ooohhh... Careful there! Not always a good idea.   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 21:43:10 -0500 (CDT) * From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda). Subject: Re: Help Needed: Tape Backup Save Set2 Message-ID: <05081021431012_20200298@antinode.org>  6 From: Brad Hamilton <brMadAhamPiltSon@coMmcaAstP.neSt>  K > They are "details" for me - since I have no access to v5.* any more, and  J > since I had problems restoring files _without_ using /SAVE_SET, and had D > _no_ problems restoring files _with_ /SAVE_SET, this is what I am D > reporting to you.  Sorry if it doesn't tally with your experience.  F    And I've never had any trouble while not using /SAVE_SET.  (And I'm
 _not_ sorry.)   H > >    And I remember _not_ needing it since at least as far back as VMS	 > > V5.0.  > J > Good - but can you reproduce this behavior consistently?  My experience J > showed me at the time that using /save_set allowed me to _consistently_ H > restore files without error, while others in the same environment who ' > did _not_ use /save_set had problems.   C    As I said, I've never had any trouble while not using /SAVE_SET.   I > Again, my experience - please don't tell me that I _didn't_ experience  ' > this behavior.  Were you there???	:-)   D    Were you?  I provided a counter-example to your claim that it wasE needed "in the VMS 5.* days".  I don't know what else might have been D wrong with any failing BACKUP command which you may have blamed on a; lack of /SAVE_SET, but I'm still open to any demonstration.   K > >    And just how much help do you think that that was to the fellow with D > > the problem?  (Hint: Did he complain about an error message likeJ > > "%BACKUP-F-LISINPSAV, /LIST requires save set as input", or did he ask# > > about "No files found"?)  [...]   +    Still waiting for an answer to that one.   J > All I'm really trying to say here is that it is my _belief_ that BACKUP I > sometimes produces "funny" behavior in the "restore" and "list" "modes" K > if the /SAVE_SET qualifier is not used.  I've seen such behavior, enough  H > times to make sure that I always use /save_set.  I've yet to "lose" a F > file for a customer by adhering to this behavior.  I've seen others @ > "lose" files for customers in this way, and have been able to ; > subsequently retrieve files previously considered "lost".   B    Show me and I'll believe it.  Only tell me, and I'll believe my( contrary experience, as I've shown here.  H > I haven't seen any breakage, and have used Zip 2.3-1 for a while now. H >   Thanks.	:-)  I've probably not been able to find a mode in which to  > break it, of course.  E    Don't give up.  People are finding new bugs all the time (although ! not in the new -V[V] code (yet)).   H > I'm sorry my humble experience does not count - but it did happen.  I K > never documented it at the time, because I did not know of the existence  L > of c.o.v., or that someone would challenge my experience as non-valid.	:-)  F    Your memories may count for as much as mine, but my evidence counts= for more (with me) than your memories.  Others may decide for  themselves, of course.  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode-org     Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------    Date: 10 Aug 2005 19:52:55 -0700$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>. Subject: Re: Help Needed: Tape Backup Save SetC Message-ID: <1123728775.249578.288000@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Z wrote: > William Webb wrote: 
 > > If you( > > MOUNT/FOREIGN tape_device tape_label > > You can  > > BACKUP/LIST tape_device:*  > @ > If you're going to use BACKUP, let VMS mount the tape for you.  G Uh, on a v5.4-1 system I had trouble using BACKUP to mount a tape. If I F put in a tape that was not the first save set volume it would screw up> with funny characters reported as the label. Using an explicitD MOUNT/FOR made everything work fine. Ever since then I tend to do an? explicit MOUNT first, except with standalone backup, of course!   4 I think you meant let BACKUP mount the tape for you.  D I'm surprised someone doesn't chime in insisting you should ALLOCATED the drive before you load the tape! And then someone else would say,G "Be careful not to forget to DEALLOCATE the drive when you're done, and ' then only *after* you unload the tape!"   @ And STILL we don't know what went wrong for the OP as he did notF provide an actual record of his session and actually told us a command that should work didn't.   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 22:09:47 -0500 (CDT) * From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda). Subject: Re: Help Needed: Tape Backup Save Set2 Message-ID: <05081022094748_20200298@antinode.org>  6 From: Brad Hamilton <brMadAhamPiltSon@coMmcaAstP.neSt>  J > I remember that back in the VMS 5.* days, this used to be a requirement.  H    I'm sorry that at this point I failed to provide one of my _absolute_5 favorite quotations.  I hereby correct that omission:   D       You were always a careful student, and your case-book was everG       more full than the rest.  You were only student then; now you are F       master, and I trust that good habit have not fail.  Remember, myG       friend, that knowledge is stronger than memory, and we should not        trust the weaker.   ;       Abraham Van Helsing, M.D., D.Ph., D.Lit., etc., etc.    C English was not his first language, but the meaning should be clear  enough.   F    You're all now free to return to the usual pointless discussions of6 the fate of the Alpha, and so on.  Sorry to interrupt.  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode-org     Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------    Date: 10 Aug 2005 20:28:50 -0700$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>. Subject: Re: Help Needed: Tape Backup Save SetC Message-ID: <1123730930.527449.237550@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Brad Hamilton wrote: > Steven M. Schweda wrote:: > > From: Brad Hamilton <brMadAhamPiltSon@coMmcaAstP.neSt> > > ) > >>>>$backup/list (tape device)/save_set ( > >>>>                         ^^^^^^^^^ > >>>  [...] I > All I'm really trying to say here is that it is my _belief_ that BACKUP I > sometimes produces "funny" behavior in the "restore" and "list" "modes" J > if the /SAVE_SET qualifier is not used.  I've seen such behavior, enoughG > times to make sure that I always use /save_set.  I've yet to "lose" a     ; All right! Someone spelled "lose" correctly on comp.os.vms!     E > file for a customer by adhering to this behavior.  I've seen others ? > "lose" files for customers in this way, and have been able to      It happened again! YoW!      [...]    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 04:35:49 GMT   From: John Santos <john@egh.com>. Subject: Re: Help Needed: Tape Backup Save Set' Message-ID: <FAAKe.5659$Sc.27@trnddc05>   
 AEF wrote: > Brad Hamilton wrote: >  >>Steven M. Schweda wrote: >>9 >>>From: Brad Hamilton <brMadAhamPiltSon@coMmcaAstP.neSt>  >>> ) >>>>>>$backup/list (tape device)/save_set ' >>>>>>                        ^^^^^^^^^  >>>>>  > [...]  > I >>All I'm really trying to say here is that it is my _belief_ that BACKUP I >>sometimes produces "funny" behavior in the "restore" and "list" "modes" J >>if the /SAVE_SET qualifier is not used.  I've seen such behavior, enoughG >>times to make sure that I always use /save_set.  I've yet to "lose" a  >   H I'm not sure how to "loose" a file, but I think the time I went into theG computer room and found an empty, broken [1] 9-track reel spinning away E and about a half mile of 1/2 inch tape filling the room, qualifies as  "loosing" a tape.  :-)  D [1] I think someone must have dropped the reel, cracking the hub andE sides, and either it was only held together by the tape's tension, or ( the stress of spinning finished the job.   >  > = > All right! Someone spelled "lose" correctly on comp.os.vms!  >  >  > E >>file for a customer by adhering to this behavior.  I've seen others ? >>"lose" files for customers in this way, and have been able to  >  >  >  > It happened again! YoW!    >  > [...]  >      --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 21:45:21 -0700  From: Z <Z@no.spam> . Subject: Re: Help Needed: Tape Backup Save Set* Message-ID: <zJAKe.3196$vb3.2924@fe07.lga>   David J Dachtera wrote: 
 >>>You can >>>BACKUP/LIST tape_device:*  @ >>If you're going to use BACKUP, let VMS mount the tape for you.  2 > Ooohhh... Careful there! Not always a good idea.   When isn't it a good idea?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 23:30:54 -0400 6 From: Brad Hamilton <brMadAhamPiltSon@coMmcaAstP.neSt>C Subject: Re: Help Needed: Tape Backup Save Set (and [OT] Zip 2.3-1) E Message-ID: <paOdnZ2dnZ3l3vSgnZ2dne1bZ9-dnZ2dRVn-0J2dnZ0@comcast.com>    Steven M. Schweda wrote:8 > From: Brad Hamilton <brMadAhamPiltSon@coMmcaAstP.neSt> <snip>J >>>   And just how much help do you think that that was to the fellow withC >>>the problem?  (Hint: Did he complain about an error message like I >>>"%BACKUP-F-LISINPSAV, /LIST requires save set as input", or did he ask " >>>about "No files found"?)  [...] >  > - >    Still waiting for an answer to that one.  >   A The OP hasn't replied, so the jury is still out.  Of course, the  0 original post was a little fuzzy in the details.   <snip>  H >>I haven't seen any breakage, and have used Zip 2.3-1 for a while now. H >>  Thanks.	:-)  I've probably not been able to find a mode in which to  >>break it, of course. >  > G >    Don't give up.  People are finding new bugs all the time (although # > not in the new -V[V] code (yet)).  >   F "-VV" works fine for me.  I'd like to see a future version that deals 4 with files > 2GB.  It would be a big help to me.	:-)   <snip>   --   Bradford J. Hamilton "All opinions are my own" * "Lose the MAPS, and replace '-at-' with @"   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 23:38:32 -0500 (CDT) * From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda)C Subject: Re: Help Needed: Tape Backup Save Set (and [OT] Zip 2.3-1) 2 Message-ID: <05081023383229_20200298@antinode.org>  6 From: Brad Hamilton <brMadAhamPiltSon@coMmcaAstP.neSt>   > "-VV" works fine for me.  H     A single/simple -V would probably work just as well.  Take a chance,E I say.  (What could go wrong?)  (And, with SET PROCESS /PARSE_STYLE = F EXTENDED, you can ditch the quotation marks.  Who could ask for more?)  0 >   I'd like to see a future version that deals  > with files > 2GB.   G    In the words of Mr. Hammer, the proprietor of the Hotel de Cocoanut,  "You don't know where to look."   % >   It would be a big help to me.	:-)   D    In spite of that, and assuming that you aren't trying to do largeH files on a VAX, you should be able to find the latest official beta kits under:  2       ftp://ftp.info-zip.org/pub/infozip/OLD/beta/  D    Zip 3.0e is pretty fresh.  UnZip 6.00b is a bit stale, but shouldF work reasonably well.  If you have a problem with it, I could probablyH be persuaded to assemble something unofficial (pre-6.00c) which is a bitF fresher.  An official 6.00c beta kit may be available fairly shortly.  (Still adding some bugs.)   G    Actual releases of Zip 3.0 and UnZip 6.00 are not imminent, however.   E    The VMS-specific I/O speed improvements in Zip 2.31 and UnZip 5.52 C should also be present in the latest Zip and UnZip beta kits, which F should help when dealing with large files.  I even made a stab at ODS5G extended file names.  The fun/bug potential is enormous.  Note that the < builders have been completely re-written, so a glance at the= documentation would be wise before proceding based on memory.   H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode-org     Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------    Date: 10 Aug 2005 11:41:20 -0700! From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com < Subject: HP OpenVMS Hobbyist and Education programs web siteB Message-ID: <1123699280.524865.57860@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>    Dear Distribution lists,   D It is my truly my privilege and honor to carry on the legacy of JohnC Wisniewski and the DFW LUG working with David Cathey on the OpenVMS G Hobbyist and now Educational programs.  Over the last few weeks we have E been working with the web team to bring you a new web page which will E cover both programs.  Something similar to SourceForge.net.  Projects 8 like home automation can bring a lot of media attention.  F http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/license_software_programs/index.html  G You will notice that this web site also includes some of the stories of @ how the hobbyists use their licenses, these will be updated on a$ regular basis, so please check back.  F A form will always be available on OpenVMS.org for Hobbyists to submitE their stories describing how they use the license.  From this form we ? will keep the License Software Programs page at HP updated.  In G addition, hobbyist will have the option of sharing their knowledge with E others who may have the same interests.  We're working on the details 1 of how this can be done and will keep you posted.   F Additionally, we would like to use this opportunity to announce the 10; finalists for the OpenVMS hobbyist contests.  Please visit: D http://www.openvms.org/pages.php?page=cool to cast your vote for the top 5 stories.  ? We would like to use this opportunity to thank Island Computers C http://www.islandco.com for the DS10L which will be the first place  prize.  @ If you've got any ideas about how we can continue to promote the$ Hobbyist program please let us know.  F Personally, I would like to ask for your understanding as I come up to speed on these projects.  
 Warm Regards,    
 Sue Skonetski  HP OpenVMS Programs    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 19:36:44 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> @ Subject: Re: HP OpenVMS Hobbyist and Education programs web site, Message-ID: <42FA8F8A.A390C62A@teksavvy.com>  " susan_skonetski@hotmail.com wrote: >    Last things first:  H > Personally, I would like to ask for your understanding as I come up to > speed on these projects.  I Sue, you seem to have accomplished quite a bit in a short amount of time. L Congratulations are in order and you certaintaly do not need to apologise orI ask for our understanding since you seem to be right up to speed already.   H > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/license_software_programs/index.html  N If I read this correctly, you are extending the hobbyist programme to studentsK at schools ? (instead of a DECUS member  number, they need a school number, 	 right ?).   N That seems like a major accomplishement to me. What is not so clear on the webI page is the differences between the 3 types of educational programmes.  I G assume one applies only to students, while the others apply also to the K school's own internal management systems. You might wish to mention that on 	 the page.      The page contains the text: [ > This program is a free download. If you wish, you may purchase the media for USD $30.00.      H In light of recent COV debates which (I suspect) sparked your taking theK responsability of the hobbyist programme, does this mean that HP is OK with N hobbysist downloading the media kits over the internet ? Has something alreadyK been setup for this ?  If so, that would be tremendous news and you deserve K huge hugs from all hobbyists :-) (And you can Hug Mt Cathay on our behalf).   6 (If not, you may wish to clarify the text on the page)    G Keep up the good work. You are one of the lanterns that make VMS shine.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 16:07:12 -0400 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> 7 Subject: RE: HP works to bring Linux to NonStop servers R Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB6B1CF3@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----. > From: Jiri Kulhan [mailto:jiri@kulhan.cz]=20  > Sent: August 10, 2005 12:26 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 9 > Subject: Re: HP works to bring Linux to NonStop servers  >=20 > >>H > >>The good part of the news is that HP know it's worth to give some=20A > >>computers to universities. Hope that somebody can persuade=20  > them to do=20 ; > >>the same with operating systems (OpenVMS, for example).  > >> > >>J. > >> > >=20 > >=20# > > Do you mean like the following?  >=202 > > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/news/ospp_turin.html >=20G > Well, something like this. But this is only one university, do you=20  > really think it's enough?  >=20    Did not say it was the only one.  ; > Do you have some numbers about the CSLG and ELP programs?  >=20 > J. >=20   Nope.=20  C Even if I did, it would not be information one would publish on the  internet anyway.  F Feel free to browse the following and search on "university" - it willD pick up a lot of folks who participate in c.o.v. and who's sig filesG indicate that they work with OpenVMS at various universities around the  globe ..  / http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.os.vms     G Also, see Sue's announcement on this subject today in different thread.    Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  4 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 17:40:37 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> H Subject: Re: InformationWeek: Intel Says Itanium Chip Is Doing Just Fine0 Message-ID: <11fksqvak0u4u20@corp.supernews.com>   icerq4a@spray.se wrote:  > Dave Froble wrote: >  >>icerq4a@spray.se wrote:  >>' >>Pulling one statement out of context:  >> >>4 >>>The Itanium microarchitecture designer have had a< >>>tougher job than a lot of other microarchitecure designer >>F >>Why is that?  Could it be the decision to continue with a dumb idea? >  > I > No, because they were breaking new grounds. If the majority of the CPUs I > would have been EPIC/VLIW type of devices, a new and before unknown OOO 2 > thinking design would also have had a tough job.  D And when some ideas prove better than others, why be dumb enough to  stick with the poorer ideas?  H >>What's so hard about saying "Alpha and Power and such OOO designs have1 >>proved to be feasible and fast, lets go there"?  >  > E > I don't know. ;) OOO is good, but there is atleast interesting that E > people try other alternatives. :) EPIC has atleast been able to get 4 > itself together now, with comparable speed of OOO.   BAA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!  @ Comparable with 4 year old Alphas that are maybe 2 or more size  processes behind?   A Comparable with Power?  Don't think so.  Unless you're like Rob,  < comparing itanic's future plans with IBM's current products?   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 19:50:39 -0400 ( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net>H Subject: Re: InformationWeek: Intel Says Itanium Chip Is Doing Just Fine= Message-ID: <eI6dnY5p3-Z4D2ffRVn-hA@metrocastcablevision.com>    Dave Froble wrote: > Bill Todd wrote: > H >> So AMD's vigorous *32-bit* competition is what kept x86 moving ahead H >> at a pace which Itanic could not catch (leaving aside Itanic's other I >> deficiencies in power and chip area compared to comparably-performing  I >> x86 parts).  AMD's much more recent 64-bit competition is merely what  H >> will leave Itanic no mid-to-high-range niche in which to survive and F >> nurse its wounds, hoping someday to re-emerge and complete Intel's D >> "take over the world with an architecture which makes compatible . >> competition virtually impossible" strategy. >>	 >> - bill  >  > A > Now that's quite interesting.  I never considered it from that  K > perspective.  The question of why to stick with EPIC when it didn't turn  F > out to be a good choice.  No wonder they didn't want to make Alphas. > . > Is that factual, or just a concept you have?  I Well, when Intel and HP decided to partner on the good ship Itanic, they  A created a new corporation to do so - reportedly at least in part  D specifically so that Intel's technology-sharing agreements with the G likes of AMD would not allow anyone else to create a compatible Itanic   clone.  ? The idea that Intel did not want to share and saw in Itanic an  G opportunity to put its past commitments to sharing behind it is pretty   broadly held in the industry.    ...   K > The judge has the nerve to call Microsoft monopolistic, and here's Intel  $ > doing the same or worse with CPUs.  5 You'd probably enjoy reading the book "Inside Intel."    - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 19:56:22 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> H Subject: Re: InformationWeek: Intel Says Itanium Chip Is Doing Just Fine, Message-ID: <42FA9422.78D36C57@teksavvy.com>   Dave Froble wrote:  @ > Now that's quite interesting.  I never considered it from thatJ > perspective.  The question of why to stick with EPIC when it didn't turnF > out to be a good choice.  No wonder they didn't want to make Alphas.  J > The judge has the nerve to call Microsoft monopolistic, and here's Intel$ > doing the same or worse with CPUs.    N Intel couldn't have a monopoly with the 8086 because of the contracts with AMDV which were required by IBM to ensure the 8086 line was available from a second source.  K But move the "industry standard" to that IA64 thing, and Intel is no longer L required to allow AMD or anyone else to produce chips with the same features and instruction sets.   M What is interesting is that HP would have agreed to ditch PaRisc in favour of M IA64 without some form of commitment by Intel that IA64 would be available to G other chip manufacturers to ensure second source is available. That was . pre-Carly when HP was still a serious company.    L It is no surprise that Curly would have killed Alpha and moved non strategicL products to IA64 since in his mind, only Wintel counted and if killing AlphaL to go IA64 pleased intel, that was good enough for him. But when HP made theK decision to go IA64, they truly bet the company on it, and you'd think they ; would have ensures IA64 didn't remain proprietary to Intel.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 21:02:42 -0400 ( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net>H Subject: Re: InformationWeek: Intel Says Itanium Chip Is Doing Just Fine= Message-ID: <8-WdnUbbTKkuPmffRVn-qA@metrocastcablevision.com>    icerq4a@spray.se wrote:  > Bill Todd wrote: >  >>icerq4a@spray.se wrote:  >> >>...  >> >>4 >>>Intel has never said 2006 for the common chipset. >>I >>While I haven't seen an Intel press release on the subject (it was only E >>a few weeks ago that they started talking to the press about CSI at G >>all), Intel was *reported* to have been shooting to introduce CSI for F >>x86 by the end of 2006 (and originally for Itanic as well, back when' >>Tukwila was scheduled for late 2006).  >  > E > Intel began talking about a common chipset (before the CSI name was B > known)some 2(?) years back and that was about to happen in 2007.H > Tukwila and CSI has never been anything other than 2007, now in second > half of 2007 though. >  > C >>>In the very recent roadmaps I have seen Intel still say 2007 for  >>>Tukwila.  >>F >>Funny - they don't on those I've seen:  they go 2005, 2006, and thenJ >>'future' (no explicit date provided).  See some recent Inquirer pictures >>of them, for example.  >  > I > No, they went from Future (which some believed to be 2006, but that was D > never Intels intention) to 2007. I don't think you can show me any9 > public evidence that Tukwila was scheduled before 2007.   D Well, the best evidence that I could find on short notice (an early I roadmap that at least reportedly appearing to be from Intel, referred to  B in http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=13619 - which specifically F mentions that Tanglewood/Tukwila appeared there as a 2006 product) no E longer seems to be available.  There's a slightly earlier mention in  G http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=13243 of a different roadmap which   is still available at G http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2003/0919/kaigai01l.gif :  it seems  E to have been pretty accurate in other respects, and, again, it lists  B Tanglewood (which got renamed to Tukwila with no other change, so I they're the same thing in the context of my earlier assertion) as a 2006  G product.  Other mentions going back to March, 2003 refer to Tanglewood  G as a 2006 or 2007 product, so Intel was at least hinting at such dates  
 back then.  = As for CSI, the earliest reference I could find to it was in  H http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=12203 - where you will note that it F was stated to be contemporaneous with Tanglewood (which, according to D the material which I've just cited above, was back then expected to D appear in 2006).  I did think I had seen something much more recent H referring to IA32 getting to CSI by late 2006 whereas Itanic would not, F but I haven't found it and need to get something more useful done now.   - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Aug 2005 22:16:48 -0700 From: icerq4a@spray.seH Subject: Re: InformationWeek: Intel Says Itanium Chip Is Doing Just FineC Message-ID: <1123737408.010264.208220@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Dave Froble wrote: > icerq4a@spray.se wrote:  > > Dave Froble wrote: > >  > >>icerq4a@spray.se wrote:  > >>) > >>Pulling one statement out of context:  > >> > >>6 > >>>The Itanium microarchitecture designer have had a> > >>>tougher job than a lot of other microarchitecure designer > >>H > >>Why is that?  Could it be the decision to continue with a dumb idea? > >  > > K > > No, because they were breaking new grounds. If the majority of the CPUs K > > would have been EPIC/VLIW type of devices, a new and before unknown OOO 4 > > thinking design would also have had a tough job. > E > And when some ideas prove better than others, why be dumb enough to  > stick with the poorer ideas?   Different ideas.  J > >>What's so hard about saying "Alpha and Power and such OOO designs have3 > >>proved to be feasible and fast, lets go there"?  > >  > > G > > I don't know. ;) OOO is good, but there is atleast interesting that G > > people try other alternatives. :) EPIC has atleast been able to get 6 > > itself together now, with comparable speed of OOO. >  > BAA HA HA HA HA HA!!!! > A > Comparable with 4 year old Alphas that are maybe 2 or more size  > processes behind?   D I am not comparing with Alpha, Alpha is way behind now because it is old.F In Integer workloads Itanium is on par with x86 and leading over RISC.   > Comparable with Power?  G Yes, and sometimes exceeding Power. I hope you are aware of that we are F talking about cores and not system architectures here. I have compiledE a lot of C applications during this year on Power5 on AIX and Itanium @ on HP-UX and most of the time the Itanium/HP-UX applications run faster.    ------------------------------    Date: 10 Aug 2005 22:28:37 -0700 From: icerq4a@spray.seH Subject: Re: InformationWeek: Intel Says Itanium Chip Is Doing Just FineC Message-ID: <1123738117.940305.266180@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   D The only reference I see somwhat worthy is the PC World one. All the< Intel roadmaps I have seen since 2002 have said "Future" forG Tanglewood/Tukwila. There was Shavano in 2006 which got removed in 2003 F I think and then there was a gap between 2005 and 2007 and some people* then thought that Tanglewood was for 2006.   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Aug 2005 12:24:14 -0700$ From: "Ed Wilts" <ewilts@ewilts.org>% Subject: Re: Is OVMS going Bangalore? C Message-ID: <1123701854.294362.120240@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>   M >  it just means that they have not been given any information to support the # > rumours of the move to India etc.   E Perhaps there is no information to support the rumors.  It's not like F the Inquirer is always right - remember they "pre-announced" the deathD of the new EVA line and said that there were going to be no more newC models?  And here HP sits, shipping 3 new models with active/active G controllers, higher capacity, and faster IO.  Let me give you the quote  from this story:  C "All followups to EVA, the EVA-XL and EVA-YL are dead and gone. All C upgrades to the current EVAs like higher capacity and faster IO are B dead also. If you have and EVA, I hope you like it the way it is."  ) http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=18991   F And then there's the followup to the article above with HP denying it:  E "I won't comment on it, take it as you will, but HP has not contacted G me yet, ever for that matter, to tell me it is wrong. That said, I will E stand by my story until I hear credible evidence that it is wrong. So < far, I have only gotten re-affirmations that it is correct."  ) http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=19043   C Even when they're dead wrong they won't admit it.  Let's follow the E thread a little further in the article entitled "HP attempts to shoot  the INQUIRER messenger":  B "HP HAS BEEN GETTING very pissy behind the scenes about my EVA and@ other related stuff."  http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=19126  B A month later, another article saying that the EVA line has ended:G "The nub is HP was canning their internal storage arrays, the EVA line. $ If you ask HP, it will deny it all".) http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=20242   F So how many articles "announcing" the end of the EVA line?  Search forE "EVA" on their site.  You'll find all the articles announcing the end / of the line and ZERO announcing the new models.   E There's a reason it's called a rumor.  Refer to Webster's definition: D " 2. A current story passing from one person to another, without any known authority for its truth"  	    .../Ed    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 20:25:12 GMT 1 From: Keith Parris <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> % Subject: Re: Is OVMS going Bangalore? 3 Message-ID: <IotKe.10183$4W3.2995@news.cpqcorp.net>    Kenneth Farmer wrote:  >>Dan O'Reilly wrote: P >>http://www.gazette.com/display_search.php?id=1309554&table=story_archive&sec=1 > F > When you see something like this please let me know or submit it to  > OpenVMS.org for posting.  I Ken, I saw this but didn't forward it because it's just plain incorrect.  D It even places the purported destination as yet another, completely  different place, Guadalajara!   D It appears they saw a copy of some memo discussing outsourcing some E "CSR" work. CSR stands for Customer Service Representative, and is a  I non-technical person who is the first one to answer the phone (e.g. when  > you place an order with HP Direct), but which they apparently H misinterpreted as Cusotomer Support Rep. These folks have nothing to do . with Customer Support, much less with OpenVMS.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:34:03 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> @ Subject: Re: Killing a process that has allocated the tape drive, Message-ID: <42FA488B.7485AD28@teksavvy.com>   Bob Koehler wrote:B >    VMS is already trying to do this when you rundown an image orJ >    process.  Both of those rundowns include $DASSGN on all open channels9 >    which in turn does a $CANCEL on all outstanding I/O.   J But obviously, the $CANCEL doesn't work for certain tape devices. So thereL needs to be a manual "zap that device with 15,0000 volts so it forgets aboutJ current operation and returns to a known iddle state where it won't try to( write to some random location in memory.  % hence my suggestion for set dev/reset    Another pet peeve of mine:  J SET HOST/DTE to a terminal device without modem controls activated yield aA locked process from which you cannot escape except with a STOP/ID    ------------------------------    Date: 10 Aug 2005 15:35:23 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) @ Subject: Re: Killing a process that has allocated the tape drive3 Message-ID: <YapAPowWNH+Z@eisner.encompasserve.org>   G In article <42fa2852$1@news1.ethz.ch>, S <soterroatyahoodotcom> writes:   K > I know that I repeat myself all over, but nobody seems to have more than  / > a 2-message memory buffer so what can I do...   C I think the problem is that you are just repeating, not responding.   A > Security can be implemented also with a less privileged driver  E > requesting stuff from the privileged (kernel) driver manager. That  E > manager can implement thus a coherent security policy so not every  ) > driver does what it thinks appropriate.   I And what, pray tell, would the "less privileged driver" do for a living ?   < The whole purpose of a VMS driver is to do privileged stuff.   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Aug 2005 16:03:39 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) @ Subject: Re: Killing a process that has allocated the tape drive3 Message-ID: <msvSR43ikWIl@eisner.encompasserve.org>   G In article <42fa2852$1@news1.ethz.ch>, S <soterroatyahoodotcom> writes:   A > Security can be implemented also with a less privileged driver  E > requesting stuff from the privileged (kernel) driver manager. That  E > manager can implement thus a coherent security policy so not every  ) > driver does what it thinks appropriate.   A    If the kernel will let you ask for the hardware to do specific D    things, how does it keep you from modifying block X which doesn't?    belong to you?  Asking the hardware to do specific things is C    all a driver does and there is no way for the rest of the kernel E    to access that hardware without that code, therefor no way to find     out who's file it is, ...  C    I think you have a much different concept of what a "driver" is.    ------------------------------    Date: 10 Aug 2005 16:06:45 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) @ Subject: Re: Killing a process that has allocated the tape drive3 Message-ID: <9oLJLX6iBOqV@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <42FA488B.7485AD28@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > L > But obviously, the $CANCEL doesn't work for certain tape devices. So thereN > needs to be a manual "zap that device with 15,0000 volts so it forgets aboutL > current operation and returns to a known iddle state where it won't try to* > write to some random location in memory. > ' > hence my suggestion for set dev/reset   H    Right.  For the rest of us, we would like systems that actually work.B    I think you can implement your suggestion yourself with a 10 lb4    hammer.  No need to get VMS Engineering involved.  B    What part of "the hardware can't do that" don't you understand?  #    Or did you just miss the smiley?    ------------------------------    Date: 10 Aug 2005 18:44:59 -0700$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>@ Subject: Re: Killing a process that has allocated the tape driveB Message-ID: <1123724699.757847.60870@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   Bob Koehler wrote:^ > In article <42FA488B.7485AD28@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > > N > > But obviously, the $CANCEL doesn't work for certain tape devices. So thereP > > needs to be a manual "zap that device with 15,0000 volts so it forgets aboutN > > current operation and returns to a known iddle state where it won't try to, > > write to some random location in memory. > > ) > > hence my suggestion for set dev/reset  > J >    Right.  For the rest of us, we would like systems that actually work.D >    I think you can implement your suggestion yourself with a 10 lb6 >    hammer.  No need to get VMS Engineering involved. > D >    What part of "the hardware can't do that" don't you understand? > % >    Or did you just miss the smiley?     8 I'll take an RWAST over severe memory corruption anyday!  D It seems to me that if you keep getting this problem that you shouldD fix your tape drive or whatever else is causing the problem. See the VMS FAQ section 5.19.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 21:07:46 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>C Subject: Re: Mark Hurd to be keynote speaker at HP Technology Forum + Message-ID: <42FAB2F2.7102846A@comcast.net>    norm.raphael@metso.com wrote:  > H > LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (leslie) wrote on 08/09/2005 02:35:42 AM: > 7 > > David J Dachtera (djesys.nospam@comcast.net) wrote:  > > : K > > : That'd put him head-and-shoulders above any other CEO in the country.  > > :  > > J > > Maybe in the top 5, but the top CEO honor goes to Malden Mills' former > > CEO, Aaron Feuerstein: > >  > > K > http://sitesearch.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A3963-2001Dec19.html ; > >    A CEO Who Lives by What's Right (washingtonpost.com)  > >  > >   "By Mary McGrory, > >    Thursday, December 20, 2001; Page A03 > > K > >    In this anxious hour of pink-slip dread, it is restoring to think of D > >    Aaron Feuerstein, a Massachusetts manufacturer who prizes his3 > >    employees and risks profits on their behalf.  > > E > >    The CEO of Malden Mills, located in Lawrence, the 23rd poorest J > >    community in the country, stepped clear of the greedy stereotype ofM > >    his kind in 1995 when, just before Christmas, his factory burned down. H > >    Rather than taking the insurance money and retiring or moving theM > >    plant to some Third World country, he promptly announced that he would K > >    rebuild. He gave bonuses to the help and paid them while they waited $ > >    for the factory reopening..." > >  > G > Yes, but unfortunately, he eventually lost the company in bancruptcy.   C ...and his people had money to hold them over while they sought new  employment.   D Severance package - nothing unusual, except perhaps the circumstance that precipitated it.    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 21:06:35 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>C Subject: Re: Mark Hurd to be keynote speaker at HP Technology Forum + Message-ID: <42FAB2AB.E9F30358@comcast.net>    Z wrote: >  > leslie wrote: J > > Maybe in the top 5, but the top CEO honor goes to Malden Mills' former > > CEO, Aaron Feuerstein: > > P > >    http://sitesearch.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A3963-2001Dec19.html; > >    A CEO Who Lives by What's Right (washingtonpost.com)  > >  > >   "By Mary McGrory, > >    Thursday, December 20, 2001; Page A03 > > K > >    In this anxious hour of pink-slip dread, it is restoring to think of D > >    Aaron Feuerstein, a Massachusetts manufacturer who prizes his3 > >    employees and risks profits on their behalf.  > > E > >    The CEO of Malden Mills, located in Lawrence, the 23rd poorest J > >    community in the country, stepped clear of the greedy stereotype ofM > >    his kind in 1995 when, just before Christmas, his factory burned down. H > >    Rather than taking the insurance money and retiring or moving theM > >    plant to some Third World country, he promptly announced that he would K > >    rebuild. He gave bonuses to the help and paid them while they waited $ > >    for the factory reopening..." > I > That act of generosity cost Malden Mills $100M and was a big reason why + > the company filed for bankruptcy in 2001.  > G > Mr Feuerstein was generous, but foolish, and certainly not a top CEO. G > Top CEOs don't ruin their companies by giving employees money for not 
 > working.  F If it comes down to a choice of investors posting a loss against theirH taxable income or several hundred (or even thousand) employees and theirA families being ruined financially due to a situation beyond human $ control, I know what I would choose.  # Your mileage may vary, of course...    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Aug 2005 14:27:21 -0700" From: "Jay" <morrisj@epsilon3.com>O Subject: Re: OpenVMS under the umbrella - or umbrella is supported at the time? B Message-ID: <1123709241.401687.81350@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>  H >And you are correct VMS is rock solid but alas VMS does not manufactureG >customer customer gifts.  We do purchase them from vendors.  And while H >the blinky balls did last a while they did not have the same up time asG >VMS.  After all most customer gifts are designed for people that loose ( >them (guess they don't know VMS folks).  2 They sure don't.  I've got swag from 20 years ago.   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Aug 2005 14:27:05 -0700" From: "Jay" <morrisj@epsilon3.com>O Subject: Re: OpenVMS under the umbrella - or umbrella is supported at the time? C Message-ID: <1123709225.531702.297660@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   H >And you are correct VMS is rock solid but alas VMS does not manufactureG >customer customer gifts.  We do purchase them from vendors.  And while H >the blinky balls did last a while they did not have the same up time asG >VMS.  After all most customer gifts are designed for people that loose ( >them (guess they don't know VMS folks).  2 They sure don't.  I've got swag from 20 years ago.   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 22:13:30 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)4 Subject: Re: strange terminal-characteristic problem$ Message-ID: <dddu6a$q40$1@online.de>  5 In article <42FA1D24.EDAE838A@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei ' <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:    1 > Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: J > > I also tried JF's suggestion of setting OPA0: to /NOEIGHTBIT.  Doesn't > > solve the problem either.  > P > With /EIGHTBIT turned on, can you type accented characters properly ? Like the >  or  or  ?    Yes.  F > > I thus conclude that it is somehow specific to the VAXstation 4000 > > series.  > M > What is puzzling is that the second serial port seems to work, and when you 4 > telnet out from the OPA0:, it then works fine too. > O > Have you tried SET TERM/PASSTHROUGH ? (or is it /PASSALL which is still valid O > ?)  This removes a layer of interpretation of data from the terminal driver.  G > (will affect DCL line editing, but may give EDT and TPU full control)   
 Doesn't help?   5 > Also, what is the TTY_TYPAHD buffer size ? (SYSGEN)    78.    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 18:04:45 GMT ( From: Alan Greig <greigaln@netscape.net> Subject: Re: Telnet over VPN9 Message-ID: <1lrKe.3242$1b6.31@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk>    David Gray wrote:    >  > H > Both good ideas.  I'm getting the users to run DOS batch files on eachE > PC which will run all day long and output to a log file.  I've been F > pinging all the PCs from the alpha for the last few days, is this of > any use?    > One or two sets of pings should be fine unless you are seeing F significant differences between the PCs and then I'd be suspicious of I the LAN they are connected to. What sort of results are you getting from  ? your pings? What's min/max/avg round trip time and packet loss?    --  
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Aug 2005 11:01:01 -0700# From: "WhoDat?" <whohe@whoever.com>  Subject: Re: Telnet over VPNC Message-ID: <1123693496.373437.159960@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>    JF Mezei wrote:  > David Gray wrote: J > > Is there anything I can do to make TELNET more resilient without goingF > > to the expense of leased line?  Is there anyway of controlling the > > timeout periods? > F > There is a way to make telnet connectiosn disconnectable. When usersP > reconnect, they are given the option to reconnect to their previous session inM > progress. Not sure of the specifics though, it depends on whcih TCPIP stack  > you have.   : Do you mean with virtual terminal enabled ($SYS... CONNECTE VTAO/NOADAPTER ...)? I think OP said he had TCP/IP so, enable VTA and  do:   ( $DEFINE/SYS/EXEC TCPIP$TELNET_VTA "TRUE"  # to keep disconnected sessions open.    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 18:57:42 GMT ( From: Alan Greig <greigaln@netscape.net> Subject: Re: Telnet over VPN8 Message-ID: <G6sKe.105$1i7.96@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>   JF Mezei wrote:    > David Gray wrote:  > D >>The DSL speeds for the UK end are correct.  Apparently that is the >>best that DSL can provide.   >  > P > No. DSL is good for up to 8mbps to you. Not sure how fast from you to network. > But some have it at 1mbps.  I The fastest UK ADSL service is 8Mb down 400k up at www.ukonline.net. Not  B in all areas and dependent on distance to exchange. But if telnet C sessions are dropping at random I think there may be a problem not  F related to bandwidth. Telnet sessions are usually totally unusable in H real life long before the connection drops through congestion unless we 4 have a problem here specific to the client emulator.  I Fastest UK home cable is around 8mb down 768k up. Although that seems to   increase on a monthly basis.  B However the fastest service currently provided by British Telecom C (David's provider) is 2mb down 256k up. They are about to roll out   faster speeds.  G Should it actually turn out to be a bandwidth problem then running the  G VPN across several ADSL connections in parallel is always possible but  5 no good if the congestion is with your ISP of course.   @ I suppose another question is whether David is sure there is no G unauthorized traffic on the link. I've seen people run streaming audio  I and video to desktop PCs over lines only sized for terminal traffic. But  D if this were the problem I'd still expect the media stream to break  before telnet. --  
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.445 ************************                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        