1 INFO-VAX	Sun, 14 Aug 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 452       Contents:% Re: Help Needed: Tape Backup Save Set % Re: Help Needed: Tape Backup Save Set % Re: Help Needed: Tape Backup Save Set % Re: Help Needed: Tape Backup Save Set  illegal message cancelled  LD  (WAS: SAMBA for VMS) Re: LD  (WAS: SAMBA for VMS) Re: LD  (WAS: SAMBA for VMS) Re: SAMBA for VMS  Re: SAMBA for VMS  Re: SAMBA for VMS  Re: SAMBA for VMS  Re: SAMBA for VMS  Re: SAMBA for VMS  Re: SAMBA for VMS  Re: SAMBA for VMS   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 02:51:37 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> . Subject: Re: Help Needed: Tape Backup Save Set, Message-ID: <42FEE9E0.1254E0C0@teksavvy.com>   David J Dachtera wrote: J > BACKUP doesn't explicitly DISMOUNT the tape unless a volume change needs* > to occur or the user specified /RELEASE.  F Does backup always mount a tape in supervisor mode so the tape remainsD mounted until the process dies ? If not, how does it know whether itA needs to dismount a tape at image rundown or leave tape mounted ?     C This may seem like a newbee question, but can an unprivileged image D specify an access mask of "supervisor" when it calls system servicesD that have an access mask as argument ? Or does it need to first callB $CMEXEC and then call the routine with access mask of supervisor ?    E (On my system, backup seems to not be installed (and thus no inherent  privileges).   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 09:01:01 -0700  From: Z <Z@no.spam> . Subject: Re: Help Needed: Tape Backup Save Set, Message-ID: <_UJLe.58659$Tt6.39786@fe04.lga>   David J Dachtera wrote:  >>>>>You can) >>>>>MOUNT/FOREIGN tape_device tape_label  >>>>>BACKUP/LIST tape_device:*  K >>>>If you're going to use BACKUP, let VMS [BACKUP] mount the tape for you.   3 >>>Ooohhh... Careful there! Not always a good idea.    >>When isn't it a good idea?  J > See the other posts in this thread, or just consider circumstances whereH > you may want to start/resume BACKUP operations from the tape's currentH > position, or any other circumstance where knowing the current state ofA > the tape is important, as opposed to assuming what it MIGHT be.   I Well, of course; but that's not what I thought you were saying, nor what  ? I was asking. Is it ever a bad idea when taking a tape listing?   E I've had customers $MOUNT without /FOREIGN and, if they do that, the  C $BACKUP/LIST completes with no errors but the list is empty (IIRC).    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 11:39:20 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>. Subject: Re: Help Needed: Tape Backup Save Set+ Message-ID: <42FF73B8.D15806A6@comcast.net>    Z wrote: >  > David J Dachtera wrote:  > >>>>>You can+ > >>>>>MOUNT/FOREIGN tape_device tape_label   > >>>>>BACKUP/LIST tape_device:* > M > >>>>If you're going to use BACKUP, let VMS [BACKUP] mount the tape for you.  > 5 > >>>Ooohhh... Careful there! Not always a good idea.  >  > >>When isn't it a good idea? > L > > See the other posts in this thread, or just consider circumstances whereJ > > you may want to start/resume BACKUP operations from the tape's currentJ > > position, or any other circumstance where knowing the current state ofC > > the tape is important, as opposed to assuming what it MIGHT be.  > J > Well, of course; but that's not what I thought you were saying, nor whatA > I was asking. Is it ever a bad idea when taking a tape listing?   	 Depends.    F > I've had customers $MOUNT without /FOREIGN and, if they do that, theE > $BACKUP/LIST completes with no errors but the list is empty (IIRC).    Training issue.    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 11:49:11 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>. Subject: Re: Help Needed: Tape Backup Save Set+ Message-ID: <42FF7606.5DB242ED@comcast.net>    JF Mezei wrote:  >  > David J Dachtera wrote: L > > BACKUP doesn't explicitly DISMOUNT the tape unless a volume change needs, > > to occur or the user specified /RELEASE. > H > Does backup always mount a tape in supervisor mode so the tape remainsF > mounted until the process dies ? If not, how does it know whether itC > needs to dismount a tape at image rundown or leave tape mounted ?   # I'm not aware of MOUNTing "modes".     DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ sh dev ld  F Device                  Device           Error    Volume         Free 	 Trans Mnt F  Name                   Status           Count     Label        Blocks	 Count Cnt . DJAS01$LDA0:            Online               0. DJAS01$LDA1:            Online               0. DJAS01$LDA2:            Online               0 DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ ld show lda1 * %LD-I-CONNECTED, Connected DJAS01$LDA1: to# DJAS01$DKA0:[DDACHTERA]MLT072.FLP;1 * DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ mount/user lda1/over=idE %DCL-W-IVQUAL, unrecognized qualifier - check validity, spelling, and 	 placement   \USER\ + DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ mount/super lda1/over=id E %DCL-W-IVQUAL, unrecognized qualifier - check validity, spelling, and 	 placement   \SUPER\* DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ mount/exec lda1/over=idE %DCL-W-IVQUAL, unrecognized qualifier - check validity, spelling, and 	 placement   \EXEC\ , DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ mount/kernel lda1/over=idE %DCL-W-IVQUAL, unrecognized qualifier - check validity, spelling, and 	 placement 	  \KERNEL\   B Either a volume/device is MOUNTed or it isn't. Either it's MOUNTedB privately or MOUNTed to the system. Again, to my knowledge, BACKUPD doesn't explicitly DISMOUNT the tape unless a volume change needs toH occur or the user specified /RELEASE. I am not aware of any circumstanceG where BACKUP deviates from that behavior. Even when BACKUP requests the @ /FOREIGN MOUNT via system services, the device is MOUNTed by theH process, not the image. So, as long as the process continues after imageD rundown, the device will remain MOUNTed privately for that process's use.  E > This may seem like a newbee question, but can an unprivileged image F > specify an access mask of "supervisor" when it calls system servicesF > that have an access mask as argument ? Or does it need to first callD > $CMEXEC and then call the routine with access mask of supervisor ?  < Not being a coder at that level, I don't really have answer.   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  + Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 08:51:06 +0000 (UTC) - From: "alohacyberian" <alohacyberian@att.net> " Subject: illegal message cancelled$ Message-ID: <ddn0lq$3be$1@online.de>   illegal message cancelled    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 06:28:26 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> ! Subject: LD  (WAS: SAMBA for VMS) ( Message-ID: <opsvh2dopwzgicya@hyrrokkin>  : On 14 Aug 2005 12:37:15 +0100, Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER   <peter@langstoeger.at> wrote:   I > Nowadays (IIRC since V7.3-1) LD is part of VMS and only the .CLD (and    > .HL%) G > is missing. If you install older versions of the LD freeware, which   	 > brought J > the driver with them, you replace the correct version of SYS$LDDRIVER ofE > VMS with an older one of the freeware package and you may end up in  > corruption and/or crashes.J > OTOH, I don't understand why I still need to install (but only once - anJ > VMS upgrade doesn't kill the DCLTABLES) the LD freeware package to get   > the * > rest of the LD functionality (like HELP)I OK, I can see it is in sys$system, why isn't it automatically installed    like any other command?   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 09:59:02 -0400 - From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> % Subject: Re: LD  (WAS: SAMBA for VMS) 1 Message-ID: <T7OdnZ9Oes6602LfRVn-jA@adelphia.com>    Tom Linden wrote: < > On 14 Aug 2005 12:37:15 +0100, Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER   > <peter@langstoeger.at> wrote:  >  > K > OK, I can see it is in sys$system, why isn't it automatically installed    > like any other command?   - An oversight that will be corrected post 8.2.    -John  wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 11:59:39 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>% Subject: Re: LD  (WAS: SAMBA for VMS) * Message-ID: <42FF787A.FACA1B1@comcast.net>   Tom Linden wrote:  > : > On 14 Aug 2005 12:37:15 +0100, Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER > <peter@langstoeger.at> wrote:  > I > > Nowadays (IIRC since V7.3-1) LD is part of VMS and only the .CLD (and 	 > > .HL%) G > > is missing. If you install older versions of the LD freeware, which  > > brought L > > the driver with them, you replace the correct version of SYS$LDDRIVER ofG > > VMS with an older one of the freeware package and you may end up in  > > corruption and/or crashes.L > > OTOH, I don't understand why I still need to install (but only once - anJ > > VMS upgrade doesn't kill the DCLTABLES) the LD freeware package to get > > the , > > rest of the LD functionality (like HELP)I > OK, I can see it is in sys$system, why isn't it automatically installed  > like > any other command?   Lack of formal support?   D As John M. goes on to say, later versions of the freeware LD supportH large container files (>4GB). LD V6.x is probably still usable with that limitation in mind.   G However, the new functionality in LD V8.x and later is really super. On A my Jensen, I've got two partitions apiece on two RZ28s, and those ? partitions are shadowed in pairs (the RZ28 themselves never get G MOUNTed). Just an experiment to see how that new functionality works. I D don't run it constantly, so I don't have a screen-scrape to paste in here just now.  H In practical application, that could be useful for some situations whereH huge volumes (SAN storage LUNs) are not required or not advantageous, as3 well as other uses that I am unlikely to encounter.    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Aug 2005 11:52:37 +01006 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) Subject: Re: SAMBA for VMS, Message-ID: <42ff3085$1@news.langstoeger.at>  c In article <VO5$2o0o8q68@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: : >"LD" does not seem to be a command on my VMS V7.3 system.E >Perhaps you meant to specify that some software beyond VMS should be  >installed first.   E LD is now (since V7.3-1 I think) part of VMS (but still unsupported). K You only need to install the DCL command LD into DCLTABLES and you're done.   K Look for VMS freeware LD V8 to get the .ZIP file with the .HLB and the .CLD    --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Aug 2005 12:37:15 +01006 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) Subject: Re: SAMBA for VMS, Message-ID: <42ff3afb$1@news.langstoeger.at>  N in article <opsvga4qq7zgicya@hyrrokkin>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:= >>> "LD" does not seem to be a command on my VMS V7.3 system. H >>> Perhaps you meant to specify that some software beyond VMS should be >>> installed first. >>I >> See what I mean!  If someone with Larry's experience doesn't know what ) >> this means, how could I possibly know?  >USR$:[FREEWARE50]LD063.DIR    Please, don't.A Don't install such an old package on a modern version of OpenVMS.   K Nowadays (IIRC since V7.3-1) LD is part of VMS and only the .CLD (and .HL%) K is missing. If you install older versions of the LD freeware, which brought H the driver with them, you replace the correct version of SYS$LDDRIVER ofC VMS with an older one of the freeware package and you may end up in  corruption and/or crashes.  H OTOH, I don't understand why I still need to install (but only once - anJ VMS upgrade doesn't kill the DCLTABLES) the LD freeware package to get the( rest of the LD functionality (like HELP)   --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Aug 2005 09:09:35 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)  Subject: Re: SAMBA for VMS3 Message-ID: <B2JTC53v+K+n@eisner.encompasserve.org>   _ In article <05081314572721_20200298@antinode.org>, sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) writes: / > From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)  > " >> >    You must not get out much. >> >   >> > alp $ help ld >> >   >> > LD  >> >  K >> >         The logical disk utility is a system management tool available  >>  K >> You must be under the impression that your local computer customizations ) >> appear on every computer in the world.  >>  ; >> The command HELP LD on my VAX produces an error message. < >> The command HELP LD on my Alpha produces text about LDAP. > H >    You infer more than I implied.  It's installed on my Alpha, and theI > help gives a brief description.  I also showed where to get it.  I made @ > no claims about its being installed everywhere.  Or did I miss > something?  , A more helpful message would be of the form:  ; 	While VMS as delivered cannot do XXX, you can do it if you ; 	install the optional Freeware/Shareware/Commercial product : 	YYY, which is available for VAX/Alpha/Itanium VMS version- 	a.b through c.d from the following source...   D As worded, your explanation was, at best, "I can do it, I don't know what is wrong with you".   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 10:05:24 -0400 - From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network>  Subject: Re: SAMBA for VMS1 Message-ID: <EbSdnUkGy-w70mLfRVn-3w@adelphia.com>     Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER wrote:P > in article <opsvga4qq7zgicya@hyrrokkin>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes: >    > Please, don't.C > Don't install such an old package on a modern version of OpenVMS.   H For 7.3-2 and earlier you will want to use LD 7.1 from the Freeware 7.0 G CD-ROM.  See the OpenVMS 7.3-2 release notes for a work around that is  H needed if for some types of operations using the logical disk container  file.  > J > OTOH, I don't understand why I still need to install (but only once - anL > VMS upgrade doesn't kill the DCLTABLES) the LD freeware package to get the* > rest of the LD functionality (like HELP)  ' That issue is being corrected post 8.2.    -John  wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Aug 2005 09:12:27 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)  Subject: Re: SAMBA for VMS3 Message-ID: <S$w4BegPtECc@eisner.encompasserve.org>   e In article <42ff3085$1@news.langstoeger.at>, peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) writes: e > In article <VO5$2o0o8q68@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: ; >>"LD" does not seem to be a command on my VMS V7.3 system. F >>Perhaps you meant to specify that some software beyond VMS should be >>installed first. > G > LD is now (since V7.3-1 I think) part of VMS (but still unsupported). M > You only need to install the DCL command LD into DCLTABLES and you're done.   F If there is something you need to install, then it is not part of VMS.  M > Look for VMS freeware LD V8 to get the .ZIP file with the .HLB and the .CLD   G So even given the freeware, it is not sufficient to install the command $ file, you also need to install ZIP ?   ============  E People should understand that not everybody is allow to use Freeware.    ------------------------------  + Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 09:25:29 -0500 (CDT) * From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) Subject: Re: SAMBA for VMS2 Message-ID: <05081409252927_20200298@antinode.org>  - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)   M > >> You must be under the impression that your local computer customizations + > >> appear on every computer in the world.  > >>  = > >> The command HELP LD on my VAX produces an error message. > > >> The command HELP LD on my Alpha produces text about LDAP. > > J > >    You infer more than I implied.  It's installed on my Alpha, and theK > > help gives a brief description.  I also showed where to get it.  I made B > > no claims about its being installed everywhere.  Or did I miss > > something? > . > A more helpful message would be of the form: > = > 	While VMS as delivered cannot do XXX, you can do it if you = > 	install the optional Freeware/Shareware/Commercial product < > 	YYY, which is available for VAX/Alpha/Itanium VMS version/ > 	a.b through c.d from the following source...  > F > As worded, your explanation was, at best, "I can do it, I don't know > what is wrong with you".  C    Still more helpful would have been, "I've done all the work, and H here's where to download exactly what you want.", but I wasn't trying toH do all that.  I pointed to what was needed, assuming that any interestedA party could read more there.  I don't know what's wrong with you, D either.  You're always welcome to provide more info to anyone if you wish.   H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode-org     Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------   Date: 14 Aug 2005 15:33:48 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: SAMBA for VMS, Message-ID: <3m96isF15smvuU2@individual.net>  2 In article <05081314572721_20200298@antinode.org>,- 	sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) writes: / > From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)  > " >> >    You must not get out much. >> >   >> > alp $ help ld >> >   >> > LD  >> >  K >> >         The logical disk utility is a system management tool available  >>  K >> You must be under the impression that your local computer customizations ) >> appear on every computer in the world.  >>  ; >> The command HELP LD on my VAX produces an error message. < >> The command HELP LD on my Alpha produces text about LDAP. > H >    You infer more than I implied.  It's installed on my Alpha, and theI > help gives a brief description.  I also showed where to get it.  I made @ > no claims about its being installed everywhere.  Or did I miss > something? >  > * > From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) > 8 >> So it's not part of VMS and not on my machine.  [...] > C >    From the current ("HP VMS LD V8.0") kit's FREEWARE_README.TXT:  > H > This kit will not install on OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 and later, as that andK > subsequent releases contain integrated support for LD.  (Releases OpenVMS K > Alpha V7.3-1 and later do have all necessary pieces of LD latent, but the G > command verb is not registered in DCLTABLES by default prior to V8.2. ; > Please see SYS$MANAGER:CDRECORD.COM for related details.)  >  > H >    Whether you deign to use it is not my decision, of course, but it's> > not as if it's raw sewage and I suggested that you inject itJ > intravenously.  I'm sorry that I assumed that you had made a request forJ > information, when it's (now) clear that you were just venting.  I'll try  > to be more careful henceforth.  G I asked for a simple way to install SAMBA.  I didn't asked for pointers D to even more packages that may or may not even install on my system.H VMS isn't my full time job.  My boss wouldn't care if the students neverE saw VMS again.  If it is the opinion of the VMS community that stupid E sys admins like me should just leave you alone, that can be arranged.    Now that's venting!!!    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 11:53:40 -0400 6 From: Brad Hamilton <brMadAhamPiltSon@coMmcaAstP.neSt> Subject: Re: SAMBA for VMS0 Message-ID: <Tv2dnaQVm9ub9GLfRVn-hQ@comcast.com>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:   <snip>I > I asked for a simple way to install SAMBA.  I didn't asked for pointers F > to even more packages that may or may not even install on my system.J > VMS isn't my full time job.  My boss wouldn't care if the students neverG > saw VMS again.  If it is the opinion of the VMS community that stupid G > sys admins like me should just leave you alone, that can be arranged.   ? Just curious - did you have any luck installing the version at:   - <http://www.pi-net.dyndns.org/anonymous/jyc/>   I Did you have problems that we can help you solve?  There are a few of us  L here who have installed (and use) SAMBA/VMS.  Perhaps someone here can help.   <snip> --   Bradford J. Hamilton "All opinions are my own" * "Lose the MAPS, and replace '-at-' with @"   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.452 ************************