1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 19 Aug 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 461       Contents: Re: 'Nuff said RE: 'Nuff said RE: 'Nuff said Re: 'Nuff said RE: 'Nuff said  [DECnet]D Re: Cerner hopefully is using Zotob to show why hospitals should runP Re: Cerner hopefully is using Zotob to show why hospitals should run VMS! VMS!VM: Re: How many files can you have in a VMS directory without: Re: How many files can you have in a VMS directory withoutP Re: How many files can you have in a VMS directory without performance problems?P Re: How many files can you have in a VMS directory withoutperformance problems?  Re: HP 3rd quarter financials  Re: Image restore fails  Re: Image restore fails  Re: Image restore fails  Re: my 2 cents Re: my 2 cents Re: RAM  Re: RAM  Re: RAM  Re: RAM  Re: RAM  Re: RAM ' Re: SAMBA for VMS (The saga continues!) ' Re: SAMBA for VMS (The saga continues!) ' Re: SAMBA for VMS (The saga continues!) ' RE: SAMBA for VMS (The saga continues!) ' Re: SAMBA for VMS (The saga continues!) ' Re: SAMBA for VMS (The saga continues!) ' Re: SAMBA for VMS (The saga continues!) / Re: Simh terminal lines and networking with VMS / Re: Simh terminal lines and networking with VMS  Re: Squid for VMS  Updated VMS Information  Re: VMS as a SMTP client Re: VMS as a SMTP client6 Re: Was --> Print Queue in "starting" state -- cause??6 Re: Was --> Print Queue in "starting" state -- cause??/ Re: Zotob worm shows VMS notebooks needed ASAP! / Re: Zotob worm shows VMS notebooks needed ASAP!   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 01:02:21 +0000 (UTC) . From: klewis@LUMINA.MITRE.ORG (Keith A. Lewis) Subject: Re: 'Nuff said . Message-ID: <de3b2t$et8$1@newslocal.mitre.org>   David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes in article <42F2CE08.C3C5B2B0@comcast.net> dated Thu, 04 Aug 2005 21:25:12 -0500:  >Richard Maher wrote:  >>  M >> Does no one mind that even HP couldn't be arsed to run DECnet on thier own  >> test-drive cluster? > H >Technically, we don't NEED DECnet at work, AFATG. It just makes certainD >aspects of life (like COPYing files between clusters) a bit easier. > & >I don't currently run DECnet at home.   To paraphrase NIN:  "DECnet's dead and noone cares."  0 --Keith Lewis              klewis {at} mitre.org> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 22:26:00 -0400 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>  Subject: RE: 'Nuff said R Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB6B1FAA@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----: > From: Keith A. Lewis [mailto:klewis@LUMINA.MITRE.ORG]=20 > Sent: August 18, 2005 9:02 PM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  > Subject: Re: 'Nuff said  >=20; > David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes in=20 > > article <42F2CE08.C3C5B2B0@comcast.net> dated Thu, 04 Aug=20 > 2005 21:25:12 -0500: > >Richard Maher wrote:  > >>=20 > > >> Does no one mind that even HP couldn't be arsed to run=20 > DECnet on thier own  > >> test-drive cluster? > > ? > >Technically, we don't NEED DECnet at work, AFATG. It just=20  > makes certain F > >aspects of life (like COPYing files between clusters) a bit easier. > > ( > >I don't currently run DECnet at home. >=20 > To paraphrase NIN:" > "DECnet's dead and noone cares." >=202 > --Keith Lewis              klewis {at} mitre.org@ > The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer. >=20  E Actually, having another way to get to a remote system that is having D TCPIP problems is a great way to increase remote supportability of a system.   C In addition, from a security perspective, while hacking methods for @ TCPIP are relatively well known, how many of the general hacking% community know anything about DECnet?   C Heck, if I wanted to increase the security of a system, one thing I H would do is not run tcpip at all on that system. File transfers would beG to a secondary system and that secondary system would only be linked to  the primary via DECnet.      Regards    ------------------------------    Date: 18 Aug 2005 21:36:25 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)  Subject: RE: 'Nuff said 3 Message-ID: <$Kll1WAog5Rt@eisner.encompasserve.org>   | In article <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB6B1FAA@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>, "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> writes:  E > In addition, from a security perspective, while hacking methods for B > TCPIP are relatively well known, how many of the general hacking' > community know anything about DECnet?  > E > Heck, if I wanted to increase the security of a system, one thing I J > would do is not run tcpip at all on that system. File transfers would beI > to a secondary system and that secondary system would only be linked to  > the primary via DECnet.   : Security through obscurity is inferior to _real_ security.  D But DECnet has _real_ security, preventing non-privileged users fromB accepting non-authenticated connections.  That goes to the core of4 DECnet design (and to the core of TCP/IP design :-).   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 00:35:25 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>  Subject: Re: 'Nuff said / Message-ID: <11gao4paci9s85@corp.supernews.com>    Keith A. Lewis wrote:  > David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes in article <42F2CE08.C3C5B2B0@comcast.net> dated Thu, 04 Aug 2005 21:25:12 -0500:  >  >>Richard Maher wrote: >>M >>>Does no one mind that even HP couldn't be arsed to run DECnet on thier own  >>>test-drive cluster? >>I >>Technically, we don't NEED DECnet at work, AFATG. It just makes certain E >>aspects of life (like COPYing files between clusters) a bit easier.  >>' >>I don't currently run DECnet at home.  >  >  > To paraphrase NIN:" > "DECnet's dead and noone cares." > 2 > --Keith Lewis              klewis {at} mitre.org@ > The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.  % Well, it's not dead here, and I care.   4 I'm using both DECnet and TCP/IP.  Each has a place.   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 22:53:50 -0400 2 From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com>! Subject: RE: 'Nuff said  [DECnet] / Message-ID: <4305117E.25500.1AC43E34@localhost>   + On 18 Aug 2005 at 22:26, Main, Kerry wrote: G > Actually, having another way to get to a remote system that is having F > TCPIP problems is a great way to increase remote supportability of a	 > system.   D For those VAX systems that don't have TCP/IP installed, and I can't A replace with CHARON-VAX [Shameless Plug Alert (tm)], I install a  7 Linux box with the open-source DECnet and LAT programs.   F I can do a network backup of all the VAX drives to the Linux box, and B allow local users to telnet to the VAX.  Good old polyLAT doesn't  work with XP, after all...    Works great!  
 --Stan Quayle  Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------- Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363 3 8572 North Spring Ct., Pickerington, OH  43147  USA 0 stan-at-stanq-dot-com       http://www.stanq.com) "OpenVMS, when downtime is not an option"    ------------------------------    Date: 18 Aug 2005 21:27:32 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) M Subject: Re: Cerner hopefully is using Zotob to show why hospitals should run 3 Message-ID: <n0YzuBRIHzHo@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ` In article <43052C54.7356CCAE@comcast.net>, David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes:   > G > ...and if the desktops happened to be running the much dreamed of but J > never realized OpenVMS-x86+DECwindows instead of "BG, Inc. shoveware" as6 > someone in this forum (I think) used to call it, ... >   = 	Mr. Tom O'Toole.  Hangs out in the much quieter itrc.hp.com.   8 	But yes... some of the best quotes ever to grace c.o.v.  H "Sounds like a bill gates dog and pony show for suspender snapping threeE martini lunching transparency presenting leather notepad toting lapel E flapping memo sending frequent flying mahogany tabled conference room 5 dwelling bill gates specifying meeting going morons."    	A classic indeed . . .    				Rob    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 19:48:21 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>Y Subject: Re: Cerner hopefully is using Zotob to show why hospitals should run VMS! VMS!VM + Message-ID: <43052C54.7356CCAE@comcast.net>    bob@instantwhip.com wrote: > : > This is again a huge opportunity for VMS ... will HP and< > Cerner and other VMS vendors take advantage of it?  Forget1 > HP but hopefully compnaies like Cerner will ...   @ Not likely, Bob. The entire front-end is written for WhineBloze.  C Too bad nobody really understand that Citrix is little more than an D effort to give Windows what UN*X and X have had from the get-go: TheH program runs on the "back-end" server. Only the user interface "runs" on> the desktop. The industry REALLY dropped the ball on that one.  5 If Cerner(, IDX, etc.) was smart they'd be porting to @ VMS+DECwindows/MOTIF and running Reflection/X or eXceed on thoseG desktops. *THAT* would go a long way toward facilitating HIPPA and S/Ox  compliance.   E ...and if the desktops happened to be running the much dreamed of but H never realized OpenVMS-x86+DECwindows instead of "BG, Inc. shoveware" as4 someone in this forum (I think) used to call it, ...  G Well, PC security remains a dream without x86/VMS, so let's switch back  to reality, shall we?    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 19:21:19 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> C Subject: Re: How many files can you have in a VMS directory without 0 Message-ID: <11ga5nudjvb8t88@corp.supernews.com>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:] > In article <BF29C963.12B1C%roktsci@comcast.net>, Jeff Cameron <roktsci@comcast.net> writes:  > J >>On 8/17/05 6:20 PM, in article 4303E231.7D05A2C@teksavvy.com, "JF Mezei"' >><jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:  >> >>I >>>What was/were the reasons for not going for a more efficient directory  >>>file structure ?  >>N >>The term "efficient directory file structure" is rather subjective. Yes thisJ >>thread is describing one of the problems with this approach to directoryJ >>structure, but there are other advantages. Likewise with other directoryN >>structures there are advantages and disadvantages. There are trade offs with >>every design.  >  > E > In partcular, the VMS on disk structure is designed to be resiliant E > in the case of a system crash while disk metadata is being written.   G First, I agree that the ODS2/5 disk structures are resiliant, and that  G for many users who don't flood directories with large number of files,   they are perfectly adequate.  D I've had some experience with B-tree structures.  If techniques are H designed correctly, they (B-tree) are very resiliant.  Possibly more so 5 than the ODS-2 and ODS-5 structures currently in use.   B If we're going to shoot someone, let's shoot the culprit, not the H innocent.  Designing an application that will put multiple thousands of H files in a directory is just plain poor design.  Even if there are file G systems that may work decently in such an environment, it's still poor   design.    My $2 worth of opinion.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 19:26:49 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>C Subject: Re: How many files can you have in a VMS directory without + Message-ID: <43052749.374B56CB@comcast.net>    Dave Froble wrote: >  > Larry Kilgallen wrote:_ > > In article <BF29C963.12B1C%roktsci@comcast.net>, Jeff Cameron <roktsci@comcast.net> writes:  > > L > >>On 8/17/05 6:20 PM, in article 4303E231.7D05A2C@teksavvy.com, "JF Mezei") > >><jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:  > >> > >>K > >>>What was/were the reasons for not going for a more efficient directory  > >>>file structure ?  > >>P > >>The term "efficient directory file structure" is rather subjective. Yes thisL > >>thread is describing one of the problems with this approach to directoryL > >>structure, but there are other advantages. Likewise with other directoryP > >>structures there are advantages and disadvantages. There are trade offs with > >>every design.  > >  > > G > > In partcular, the VMS on disk structure is designed to be resiliant G > > in the case of a system crash while disk metadata is being written.  > H > First, I agree that the ODS2/5 disk structures are resiliant, and thatH > for many users who don't flood directories with large number of files, > they are perfectly adequate. > E > I've had some experience with B-tree structures.  If techniques are I > designed correctly, they (B-tree) are very resiliant.  Possibly more so 7 > than the ODS-2 and ODS-5 structures currently in use.  > C > If we're going to shoot someone, let's shoot the culprit, not the I > innocent.  Designing an application that will put multiple thousands of I > files in a directory is just plain poor design.  Even if there are file H > systems that may work decently in such an environment, it's still poor	 > design.  >  > My $2 worth of opinion.   F As I'm sure JF can attest, All-in-1 could end up putting many hundredsH if not thousands of mail message files in a set of shared directories ifE the SysAdmin didn't make new directory sets available periodically. I B recall my first and only (to date) All-in-1 site having only threeH hundred shared message directories but over a half-million message files in the shared areas.   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 20:02:31 GMT 1 From: Keith Parris <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> Y Subject: Re: How many files can you have in a VMS directory without performance problems? 2 Message-ID: <rP5Ne.10604$n83.904@news.cpqcorp.net>  
 RAQ wrote:A > Does anyone know the real numbers? Or how I can calculate them?   E Performance used to "fall off a cliff" above the magic number of 127  B blocks in directory size (which was the limit then of the size of G directory file RMS could cache; also, directory file updates were done  D in 1-block-at-a-time mode, whereas now multiple-block I/Os are used G instead). Now instead of a cliff you get a more rounded-off curve, and  E the poor performance starts more gradually and becomes noticeable at  @ larger sizes of directory files, so you can often get away with 4 directory sizes of as large as 2000-4000 blocks now.  F But what I've found most useful in practice is, instead of looking at D directory file size (or file counts, as you were trying to use), to @ instead look for occurrences of lock queues forming on the File I Serialization lock on the directory file. This can provide early warning  E of potential directory-size-related performance problems before they  ? become visible at the level of adversely affecting application  F performance, and before the solution ($DELETE or $RENAME) becomes too  painful.  G The LCKQUE.COM tool from the V6 Freeware CD, [KP_LOCKTOOLS] directory,  F can be used to detect these lock queues. I'd run it once a minute and G scan the logs on a weekly basis (daily if need be) to find directories  @ which are starting to approach becoming performance bottlenecks.  G I've used this technique to successfully detect and fix directory-size  C problems before the users started noticing performance degradation.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 19:35:38 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>Y Subject: Re: How many files can you have in a VMS directory withoutperformance problems?  + Message-ID: <43052959.A2EB9FA9@comcast.net>    JF Mezei wrote:  >  > Jeff Cameron wrote: K > > best solution would be to have the DELETE.EXE image delete files in the ; > > reverse order either by default or by qualifier switch.  > ) > (rest of full top costing crap deleted)  > I > I agree entirely. I don't want to have to guess "gee, should I just use G > DELETE, or must I setup some symbol pointing to some utility I rarely I > use, type help to make sure I understand the syntax properly ? and then  > execute it". > G > I'd like the brains to be in DELETE so that it automatically kicks in > > and doesn't require the user to learn about another utility.  F I think we may have asked for DELETE/REVERSE at one time or some such.  H Given that DELETE.EXE probably uses the same system RTL routines as most@ every other utility that supports wildcarded filespec.'s, you'reD probably right: the "brains" would have to be to DELETE to, perhaps,G build an internal array consisting of the entire directory, take out an H exclusive lock on the directory, shuffle it in memory as the DELETEs are@ done, then write it back out and relinquish the exclusive lock.   C I figure if the directory is read in as the first step, most memory F constraints should show up at that point, before anything has a chance to get corrupted.    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 19:23:14 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> & Subject: Re: HP 3rd quarter financials0 Message-ID: <11ga5roc9qtss14@corp.supernews.com>   Dan Notov wrote: > JF Mezei wrote:  >  >> Dan Notov wrote:  >>I >>> Significant growth in ISS platforms. All units are profitable, except 
 >>> software.  >> >> >>% >> That was the other question I had:  >>G >> Does any VMS software/application/compilers belong to the "Software" E >> division, or is all the stuff a VMS customer would require from HP  >> sold/responsability of BCS ?  >>J >> Also, if one looks at a product such as ALL-IN-1/Office Server which inI >> "maintenance mode" in India, is that a responsability of Ann McQuaid ? G >> Or is Ann McQuaid responsible only for the VMS operating system and  	 >> SIPs ?  > E > No, software includes mostly OpenView products. Part of the reason  I > software has not be profitable is HP has acquired a number of software  I > firms that were still in startup mode. Lot's of R&D, no sales to speak  = > of, etc. There are other reasons that need to be addressed.  > I > OpenVMS & it's layered products & applications sits firmly within BCS,  ! > as does HP-UX, Tru64 UNIX, etc.   D Thanks for clearing up that misunderstanding, or, was it conclusion 
 jumped to?   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 18:58:42 -0400 0 From: Peter Sjoberg <peters38@techwiz.spamno.ca>  Subject: Re: Image restore fails> Message-ID: <pan.2005.08.18.22.58.41.536175@techwiz.spamno.ca>  ; On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 19:58:22 -0500, David J Dachtera wrote:    > Peter Sjoberg wrote: >>  J >> The only outstanding question would be why 7.2 & 7.3 fails so badly and? >> how to avoid that in a future restore? Is there any switch I L >> can add on my 6.x backup to make the 7.2 handle it correctly (/noalias) ? > E > As I understand it, this was/is a known issue and there were/are no  > plans to address it.  E Any plans to at least inform about it a little more highlighted (Help  pages?) I I was going to play around with /Alias but soon discovered that under 6.2 H you aren't allow to have both /image and /alias to backup ("not allowed,D check doc", but help backup didn't show anything about that) so that testing whas short lived.    /ps    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 19:20:06 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>  Subject: Re: Image restore fails+ Message-ID: <430525B6.8D4D04AF@comcast.net>    Peter Sjoberg wrote: > = > On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 19:58:22 -0500, David J Dachtera wrote:  >  > > Peter Sjoberg wrote: > >>L > >> The only outstanding question would be why 7.2 & 7.3 fails so badly andA > >> how to avoid that in a future restore? Is there any switch I N > >> can add on my 6.x backup to make the 7.2 handle it correctly (/noalias) ? > > G > > As I understand it, this was/is a known issue and there were/are no  > > plans to address it. > G > Any plans to at least inform about it a little more highlighted (Help 	 > pages?)   G Maybe I should research it some more and submit a break-out session for = next year's HP Tech Forum (successor to the DECUS Symposium).   K > I was going to play around with /Alias but soon discovered that under 6.2 J > you aren't allow to have both /image and /alias to backup ("not allowed,F > check doc", but help backup didn't show anything about that) so that > testing whas short lived.   B /ALIAS was still more or less experimental at the V6.2 stage, as IH recall. At the time, I believe it was the beginnings of efforts to allowH aliased file, especially directories, to be backed by both names without? actually duplicating the data into separate files upon restore.    I could be wrong about that...  B ...but yes, when dealing with the older versions, it helps to haveH access to the New Features and Release Notes from disparate versions andF check what changes going forward to see if its downwardly compatible.    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 20:48:21 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>   Subject: Re: Image restore fails, Message-ID: <43052C3A.BFEECDA9@teksavvy.com>   Peter Sjoberg wrote:K > I was going to play around with /Alias but soon discovered that under 6.2 J > you aren't allow to have both /image and /alias to backup ("not allowed,F > check doc", but help backup didn't show anything about that) so that > testing whas short lived.   G Your problem is not /ALIAS or /NOALIAS. The problem is that your backup + is either flawed or your restore is flawed.   H Have you gone to the VMS download for patches to see if you can find the patch for BACKUP at 6.* ?    ------------------------------    Date: 18 Aug 2005 17:44:16 -0700$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: my 2 cents B Message-ID: <1124412256.728101.87950@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   JF Mezei wrote: $ > susan_skonetski@hotmail.com wrote: > > My feelings only > D > And thank you for sharing them. Knowing how you feel is important. >  [...] J > > out that they are not even purchasing customers.  He is a numbers guy,3 > > you need to be willing to include your numbers.  > C > Then that is wrong. If someone takes the time to write to Hurd to J > explain what is wrong with HP's handling of VMS and this is why they areP > no longer VMS customers, that is worth a LOT more than some existing customer.  F Well, I'd say losing an existing customer ranks pretty high. One wants@ to keep existing customers while gaining new customers. Both are
 important.  C > > points in it, unfortunately these good points are surrounded by K > > paragraphs of rants of how VMS has been mistreated as an orphaned child C > > for the last decade.  And that essentially the companies senior J > > management is imbeciles / morons, with the IQ of ice cubes and a waste > > of skin  > E > Sue, this has to be taken in the context of HP's mishandling of VMS D > between June 25 2001 And May 7th 2002 and beyond. Remember that HPD > bought Compaq on the heals of the Alpha murder and then refused toH > discuss plans for VMS during the period between merger announcement onE > Sept 7th and May7th, followed by the infamous Stallard memos all of H > which gave a strong impression that HP didn't care about VMS' past and     [...blah blah blah cut...]    = You missed it again! Read it again: RANTS, calling the senior G management imbeciles and morons with the IQ of ice cubes and a waste of  skin...   C Nothing you wrote in your post addresses this most important point. C Nothing you wrote in your post addresses this most important point. C Nothing you wrote in your post addresses this most important point. C Nothing you wrote in your post addresses this most important point. C Nothing you wrote in your post addresses this most important point.   A Even if you don't agree with Sue's point, you obviously missed it ) altogether. I'll try to explain it again:   F    RANTS AND NASTY INSULTS ARE NOT HELPFUL. IN FACT, THEY ARE HURTFUL.  A You can write about the mistreatment of VMS, Alpha, and customers 1 without ranting and making nasty insults. Capice?   G Again, I recommend, when writing to Hurd et al.: be to-the-point (these ? people don't have time to read rants), be polite and respectful > (otherwise your letter will probably be thrown in the trash orC otherwise ignored). Endless details about the past are not helpful.    Well, that's my 2 cents.   [... huge rant cut ...]    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 22:13:45 -0400 - From: William Webb <william.w.webb@gmail.com>  Subject: Re: my 2 cents 7 Message-ID: <8660a3a105081819135cc58817@mail.gmail.com>   B On 18 Aug 2005 17:44:16 -0700, AEF <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> wrote: >=20 > JF Mezei wrote: & > > susan_skonetski@hotmail.com wrote: > > > My feelings only > > F > > And thank you for sharing them. Knowing how you feel is important. > >  > [...] L > > > out that they are not even purchasing customers.  He is a numbers guy= , 5 > > > you need to be willing to include your numbers.  > > E > > Then that is wrong. If someone takes the time to write to Hurd to L > > explain what is wrong with HP's handling of VMS and this is why they ar= e L > > no longer VMS customers, that is worth a LOT more than some existing cu= stomer.  >=20H > Well, I'd say losing an existing customer ranks pretty high. One wantsB > to keep existing customers while gaining new customers. Both are > important. >=20E > > > points in it, unfortunately these good points are surrounded by L > > > paragraphs of rants of how VMS has been mistreated as an orphaned chi= ldE > > > for the last decade.  And that essentially the companies senior L > > > management is imbeciles / morons, with the IQ of ice cubes and a wast= e 
 > > > of skin  > > G > > Sue, this has to be taken in the context of HP's mishandling of VMS F > > between June 25 2001 And May 7th 2002 and beyond. Remember that HPF > > bought Compaq on the heals of the Alpha murder and then refused toJ > > discuss plans for VMS during the period between merger announcement onG > > Sept 7th and May7th, followed by the infamous Stallard memos all of J > > which gave a strong impression that HP didn't care about VMS' past and >=20 >=20 > [...blah blah blah cut...] >=20 >=20? > You missed it again! Read it again: RANTS, calling the senior I > management imbeciles and morons with the IQ of ice cubes and a waste of 	 > skin...  >=20E > Nothing you wrote in your post addresses this most important point. E > Nothing you wrote in your post addresses this most important point. E > Nothing you wrote in your post addresses this most important point. E > Nothing you wrote in your post addresses this most important point. E > Nothing you wrote in your post addresses this most important point.  >=20C > Even if you don't agree with Sue's point, you obviously missed it + > altogether. I'll try to explain it again:  >=20H >    RANTS AND NASTY INSULTS ARE NOT HELPFUL. IN FACT, THEY ARE HURTFUL. >=20C > You can write about the mistreatment of VMS, Alpha, and customers 3 > without ranting and making nasty insults. Capice?  >=20I > Again, I recommend, when writing to Hurd et al.: be to-the-point (these A > people don't have time to read rants), be polite and respectful @ > (otherwise your letter will probably be thrown in the trash orE > otherwise ignored). Endless details about the past are not helpful.  >=20 > Well, that's my 2 cents. >=20 > [... huge rant cut ...]  >=20 >=20  I Thank you, AEF, I've said much the same thing many times in the past. =20   A And except for the immediate past CEO ( I will say no more), I've ; always gotten personal responses when I write them letters.   - And let me add a personal comment to you all:   K Sue Skonetski Is The Most Tireless Promoter Of VMS On The Entire Planet.=20   F She was clearly trying to give some of the more obtuse members of thisA menagerie some gentle hints on how to structure communications to ; those at or near the top of the pyramid in such a way that:   A 1)  your letter might actually be read in their entirety by their  intended recipients, and  A 2) your letter won't be deemed as more suitable for corroborating A documention at an involuntary commitment hearing than as customer 	 feedback.   - Or to put it in a short and simple phrase:=20   ( *** PLEASE DO NOT FLAME THE ADVOCATE ***  D Do a Lydick on me all you want,  you wouldn't be the first and I can give as good as I get.   WWWebb   --=20 C NOTE: This email address is only used for noncommerical VMS-related  correspondence. C All unsolicited commercial email will be deemed to be a request for 8 services pursuant to the terms and conditions located at# http://bellsouthpwp.net/w/e/webbww/    ------------------------------    Date: 18 Aug 2005 12:38:50 -0700; From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com>  Subject: Re: RAMC Message-ID: <1124393930.784887.272210@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>    Arne Vajh=F8j wrote: > I am an hardware ignorant. > 4 > Can memory be moved between any of theese systems: >  > PWS 433au  > AS 800 (500 MHz) > AS 1000A (400 MHz) >  > ?  >  > Arne  F Sorry to say, but probably not.  I know for sure the PWS and the AS800C require different types of memory.  The PWS433 requires a PC100 ECC G Registered SDIMM while the AS800 uses an older style PC100 DIMM EDO.  I E don't know what the AS1000A requires but I'm pretty sure it's not the 9 same as the AS800 and probably not the same as the PWS433    ------------------------------    Date: 18 Aug 2005 14:16:36 -0700# From: "WhoDat?" <whohe@whoever.com>  Subject: Re: RAMC Message-ID: <1124399796.857508.315190@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>    Reinhard Eigner wrote:3 > <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag ? > news:1124393930.784887.272210@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...  >  > Arne Vajh=F8j wrote: > >> I am an hardware ignorant.  > >>7 > >> Can memory be moved between any of theese systems:  > >> > >> PWS 433au > >> AS 800 (500 MHz)  > >> AS 1000A (400 MHz)  > >> > >> ? > >>	 > >> Arne  > K > > I don't know what the AS1000A requires but I'm pretty sure it's not the = > > same as the AS800 and probably not the same as the PWS433  > J > The AS1000A needs the good old 72pin PS/2 SIMMs (of course with Parity).  D IRRC, you need 5 identical SIMMs per group: 4 for mem & 1 for ECC. I$ think you could have up to 4 groups.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 21:27:02 GMT ) From: Alfred Falk <falk@arc.REMOVE.ab.ca>  Subject: Re: RAM7 Message-ID: <Xns96B69D2C58482falkarcabca@198.80.55.250>   & "WhoDat?" <whohe@whoever.com> wrote in< news:1124399796.857508.315190@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:    > Reinhard Eigner wrote:4 >> <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag@ >> news:1124393930.784887.272210@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com... >> >> Arne Vajhj wrote: 8 >> >> Can memory be moved between any of theese systems: >> >>  >> >> PWS 433au  >> >> AS 800 (500 MHz) >> >> AS 1000A (400 MHz) >>H >> > I don't know what the AS1000A requires but I'm pretty sure it's notB >> > the same as the AS800 and probably not the same as the PWS433 >>B >> The AS1000A needs the good old 72pin PS/2 SIMMs (of course with >> Parity).  > F > IRRC, you need 5 identical SIMMs per group: 4 for mem & 1 for ECC. I& > think you could have up to 4 groups.  H Not quite identical.  You can actually get away with non-parity for the + ECC slot, but still needs to be right size. D And yes, this is quite different for AS 800.  I don't know anything 
 about 433.   --  @ ----------------------------------------------------------------A   A L B E R T A         Alfred Falk               falk@arc.ab.ca  @ R E S E A R C H         Information Systems Dept   (780)450-5185+   C O U N C I L         250 Karl Clark Road 1                         Edmonton, Alberta, Canada  http://www.arc.ab.ca/   T6N 1E4   http://www.arc.ab.ca/staff/falk/   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 15:05:31 -0700 ! From: Crabs <Crabs@ihatespam.com>  Subject: Re: RAM/ Message-ID: <LIKdnbzi37Kxm5jeRVn-uw@sunset.net>    Alfred Falk wrote:( > "WhoDat?" <whohe@whoever.com> wrote in> > news:1124399796.857508.315190@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:  >  >  >>Reinhard Eigner wrote: >>4 >>><johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag@ >>>news:1124393930.784887.272210@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com... >>>  >>>Arne Vajhj wrote:  >>> 7 >>>>>Can memory be moved between any of theese systems:  >>>>>  >>>>>PWS 433au >>>>>AS 800 (500 MHz)  >>>>>AS 1000A (400 MHz)  >>> G >>>>I don't know what the AS1000A requires but I'm pretty sure it's not A >>>>the same as the AS800 and probably not the same as the PWS433  >>> B >>>The AS1000A needs the good old 72pin PS/2 SIMMs (of course with >>>Parity).  >>F >>IRRC, you need 5 identical SIMMs per group: 4 for mem & 1 for ECC. I& >>think you could have up to 4 groups. >  > J > Not quite identical.  You can actually get away with non-parity for the - > ECC slot, but still needs to be right size. F > And yes, this is quite different for AS 800.  I don't know anything  > about 433. >   I All PWS's (433-500-600) came with 168 pin DIMM ECC CL222 66mhz or 100mhz  G (I've heard of 133mhz working but have never seen it with my own eyes).   
 Good luck!   TomC   ------------------------------   Date: 19 Aug 2005 00:27:02 GMT From: healyzh@aracnet.com  Subject: Re: RAM+ Message-ID: <de390m0hfn@enews2.newsguy.com>   " Crabs <Crabs@ihatespam.com> wrote:K > All PWS's (433-500-600) came with 168 pin DIMM ECC CL222 66mhz or 100mhz  I > (I've heard of 133mhz working but have never seen it with my own eyes).    > Good luck!  H I've seen PC133 RAM *not working* in my 433au.  It led to massive systemH unstability.  As soon as I removed it and went to nothing but PC100 RAM, everything was fine.  F Who knows, it might work for some people, but don't be surprised if it doesn't.   		Zane   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 20:23:48 -0500  From: Jim <none@example.com> Subject: Re: RAME Message-ID: <ra-dnZ2dnZ3PhrrhnZ2dnTmpmN6dnZ2dRVn-0J2dnZ0@comcast.com>   / "Reinhard Eigner" <antispam@garnix.de> wrote in ( news:de2p8o$4qo$01$1@news.t-online.com:   A > The AS1000A needs the good old 72pin PS/2 SIMMs (of course with  > Parity).    
 SIMMs, eh?  E I seem to remember that my first VAX - an 11/780 that we got in 1980  D - had four MB of memory, which consisted of 16 hex-height modules...   Jim    ------------------------------   Date: 18 Aug 2005 19:34:30 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)0 Subject: Re: SAMBA for VMS (The saga continues!), Message-ID: <3mk666F16tdcrU1@individual.net>  D OK people.  I have successfully built and installed SAMBA (and SWAT) and it seems to run properly.   @ One last problem, however.  Is there something I can put into myC startup file to make it wait at some point till the IP stuff is up?   ? It looks like at bootup it tries to start SAMBA and SWAT before D something in the TCPIP setup has competed resulting in their failureG to start followed by a message about TCP/IP Services startup completed.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 13:18:03 -0700  From: Z <Z@no.spam> 0 Subject: Re: SAMBA for VMS (The saga continues!)$ Message-ID: <326Ne.4$Ap2.3@fe07.lga>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:F > OK people.  I have successfully built and installed SAMBA (and SWAT) > and it seems to run properly.  > B > One last problem, however.  Is there something I can put into myE > startup file to make it wait at some point till the IP stuff is up?  > A > It looks like at bootup it tries to start SAMBA and SWAT before F > something in the TCPIP setup has competed resulting in their failureI > to start followed by a message about TCP/IP Services startup completed.   # Put the SAMBA startup command after   7 $ @SYS$STARTUP:TCPIP$STARTUP.COM    ! <- or UCX$STARTUP   " in SYS$STARTUP:SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 16:28:51 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 0 Subject: Re: SAMBA for VMS (The saga continues!), Message-ID: <4304EF79.F83EB59C@teksavvy.com>   "Main, Kerry" wrote:I > My personal view is that OS platforms popularity have a way of changing E > over the years. IBM was the biggie with mainframe stuff in 60/70's. H > OpenVMS was the biggie in the 80's/early 90's. Solaris/Windows was theA > biggie in late 90's/early 2000's. Linux is the buzz word today.   E The pendulum swung from mainframes to minis to wintel crap. It is now A swinging back to minis (Linux/Unix). I suspect it will eventually H stabilise somewhere and the swaying will lose momentum and speed, so you) see paradigm changes over longer periods.   E Just look at web technolgies. They are starting to stabilise, and now @ there is talk of standadizing javascript junk, and Microsoft hasE supposedly been convinced to announce it would be willing to consider  adhering to HTML standards.     H Right now, Linux is popular because it was marketed as an alternative toG Windows which was really easy to implement for a pilot project (use old < PC and free linux) and which was able to prove itself insideE corporations that way. It is becoming a solid commercial and credible M product now (no matter how much stuff and disarray may be behind the scenes).   H And Linux is as much a threath to Windows as it is to VMS. It has betterG SMTP software, its version of Apache is better than the proprietary one E on VMS (caching by file system for one thing, but also quicker to get  software updates).  G It is hard to really proeduict what will happen in the future. And that C is one of VMS' problems. It is hoping to capture some market in the G future. What it needs to do is to leverage opportunities as they arise. C When people started being fed up with windows, VMS shoudl have been H markleted before Linux took root and they could have nipped Linux in theF bud by making VMS stand out as THE alternative that is fully supportedG by the vendor. None of that happened, so VMS didn'T capture any of that G market and it went to Linux and now to some extend to MacOs. Apple/Jobs D made a very very clever move by going with unix as a kernel/base forG MacOS.  They can now pitch it seriously as a server as well as desktop.   H VMS has abandonned just about every market, and its internet software isA pale in comparison to what linux and MacOS offer out of the box.    G As time progresses, VMS needs not only a marketing infusion, but also a E big enginering infusion to get VMS back in the race and catch up with H its competitors, in particular with the TCPIP stack. Since 2001, VMS hasC essentially be stagnant, in part due to the port to that IA64 thing G which ate up resources. And now, with HP downsizing, my fear is that it L will get worse, especially if VMS needs to be ported to the 8086 to survive.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 17:57:02 -0400 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> 0 Subject: RE: SAMBA for VMS (The saga continues!)R Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB6B1F98@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----9 > From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com]=20  > Sent: August 18, 2005 4:29 PM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 2 > Subject: Re: SAMBA for VMS (The saga continues!) >=20 > "Main, Kerry" wrote:B > > My personal view is that OS platforms popularity have a way=20
 > of changing G > > over the years. IBM was the biggie with mainframe stuff in 60/70's. 5 > > OpenVMS was the biggie in the 80's/early 90's.=20  > Solaris/Windows was the C > > biggie in late 90's/early 2000's. Linux is the buzz word today.  >=20G > The pendulum swung from mainframes to minis to wintel crap. It is now C > swinging back to minis (Linux/Unix). I suspect it will eventually ? > stabilise somewhere and the swaying will lose momentum and=20  > speed, so you + > see paradigm changes over longer periods.  >=20  	 [snip...]   B > And Linux is as much a threath to Windows as it is to VMS. It=20 > has better< > SMTP software, its version of Apache is better than the=20 > proprietary one G > on VMS (caching by file system for one thing, but also quicker to get  > software updates). >=20  G Yep, as long as you do not mind testing, QA'ing and applying the approx E 10-20 security patches released every month. Over 160 *security* (not < bug) patches released by RH since Jan of this year alone.=20  B Course, how important could web security really be anyway, right ?  F Reference: (count them up if you want the actual number - 14 so far in Aug)6 https://www.redhat.com/archives/enterprise-watch-list/   :-)    [snip..]   Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  4 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.   ------------------------------   Date: 18 Aug 2005 23:17:14 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)0 Subject: Re: SAMBA for VMS (The saga continues!), Message-ID: <3mkj7qF16m2e9U1@individual.net>  $ In article <326Ne.4$Ap2.3@fe07.lga>, 	Z <Z@no.spam> writes: > Bill Gunshannon wrote:G >> OK people.  I have successfully built and installed SAMBA (and SWAT)   >> and it seems to run properly. >>  C >> One last problem, however.  Is there something I can put into my F >> startup file to make it wait at some point till the IP stuff is up? >>  B >> It looks like at bootup it tries to start SAMBA and SWAT beforeG >> something in the TCPIP setup has competed resulting in their failure J >> to start followed by a message about TCP/IP Services startup completed. > % > Put the SAMBA startup command after  > 9 > $ @SYS$STARTUP:TCPIP$STARTUP.COM    ! <- or UCX$STARTUP  > $ > in SYS$STARTUP:SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM ?  B It is, but apparently some of the stuff TCPIP does must be in someD kind of detached process as I get a whole pile of messages (starting> XDM and other things then I get the failure message from SAMBA+ and then I get the TCPIP completed message.   B But now I am wondering if there is something wrong with the script= created by the SAMBA INSTALL.COM as I can't start it manually  anymore either.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 19:46:49 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> 0 Subject: Re: SAMBA for VMS (The saga continues!), Message-ID: <43051DE9.5030506@tsoft-inc.com>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:F > OK people.  I have successfully built and installed SAMBA (and SWAT) > and it seems to run properly.  > B > One last problem, however.  Is there something I can put into myE > startup file to make it wait at some point till the IP stuff is up?  > A > It looks like at bootup it tries to start SAMBA and SWAT before F > something in the TCPIP setup has competed resulting in their failureI > to start followed by a message about TCP/IP Services startup completed.  >  > bill >   E Ok, this is me, and if there are other opinions, well, they're wrong.   ? Keep your SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM procedure short and do only what's  ? necessary.  That includes starting up at least one batch queue.   ; In the batch queue, do the things that don't need to be in  5 SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM.  This does several things for you.   ? The operations are streamed, with control of what happens when   controlled by the command file.   > You get a logfile of what happened, including errors and such.  H The VMS system is up and available much quicker.  If not for all users, C at least for you so you can take special actions whenever required.    An example that I use:  # $ t sys$manager:systartup_batch.com H $!**********************************************************************D $! This is the site-specific startup command procedures that will be $! performed in batch.H $!********************************************************************** $  $ set noverify
 $ set noon $  $  $! Start network jobs  $  $ @SYS$MANAGER:STARTNET.COM  $ @SYS$STARTUP:LAT$STARTUP.COM  $ @SYS$STARTUP:TCPIP$STARTUP.COM $ # $ @SYS$STARTUP:SYS$NET_SERVICES.COM  $  $ 0 $! Set up for virtual terminals and async DECnet $  $! @SYS$MANAGER:ASYNCNET.COM $  $  $! Set up LAT dialup port  $  $ @SYS$MANAGER:LAT_DIALUP.COM  $  $  $! Set up LAT spoolers $  $ @SYS$MANAGER:LATQUEUES.COM  $! @SYS$MANAGER:LAT_PC_QUEUE.COM $  $  $! Start DFE detached processes  $  $ @SYS$MANAGER:DFEDETACH.COM $  $ ' $ purge SYS$MANAGER:SYSTARTUP_BATCH.LOG  $  $  $ EXIT:  $ EXIT    I You will of course need to have the following in SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM.  The  - following is the tail end of my startup file:    $  $! Set up spoolers $  $ wso "  spooler set-up" $ @SYS$MANAGER:QUEUES.COM  $  $  $! Set up terminals  $  $ wso "  terminal set-up"  $ @SYS$MANAGER:TERMINAL.COM  $  $ " $! Submit rest of startup to batch $ F $ submit/keep/noprint/log=SYS$MANAGER: SYS$MANAGER:SYSTARTUP_BATCH.COM $  $ . $ wso "  finished with site-specific start-up" $ EXIT  H I like to keep the details out of the main file, so I invoke additional B files for specific purposes.  It can be argued that this is a bit 9 slower, but it's one time, and what's a few nano-seconds?   " For starting the main batch queue:   $ t sys$manager:queues.com $! Start system queues $  $ start /queue /manager  $  $  $! Define form numbers $  $ @SYS$MANAGER:FORMS $  $  $ initialize -          / queue -          / start -          / batch -          / job_limit=4 -          / base_priority=3 -          / wsdefault=300 -          / wsquota=500 -          / wsextent=1500 -           / cpudefault=INFINITE -           / cpumaximum=INFINITE -          SYS$BATCH  D Please no comments about not having to start the queue manager, and 5 autostart queues.  I know, and choose another option.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 21:43:25 -0400 - From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> 0 Subject: Re: SAMBA for VMS (The saga continues!)1 Message-ID: <s--dnboXi7HdpJjeRVn-pA@adelphia.com>    Bill Gunshannon wrote:F > OK people.  I have successfully built and installed SAMBA (and SWAT) > and it seems to run properly.  > B > One last problem, however.  Is there something I can put into myE > startup file to make it wait at some point till the IP stuff is up?  > A > It looks like at bootup it tries to start SAMBA and SWAT before F > something in the TCPIP setup has competed resulting in their failureI > to start followed by a message about TCP/IP Services startup completed.   H You are right.  The procedure is not robust.  The logical names need to I be defined and the SMBD image needs to be installed as shared before the   TCP/IP program is started.  I If this is not done, the TCP/IP startup may attempt to start up the SMBD  E process for incoming LANMAN connections before the logical names are  J available and if the logical names are not set up, that service will fail.  H The NMBD and SWAT processes need to be started after the TCP/IP program  is started.   D The current procedure does not install the SMBD program as a shared I image, so if you do not do that step you are using more VMS physical and  D virtual memory than would otherwise be needed.  The image not being ? installed also makes the  startup of the SAMBA sessions slower.   E The current hack to get around the startup limitations is to put the  B startup after the TCP/IP startup, and then use the SAMBA_SHUTDOWN . procedure that is run before you shutdown VMS.  C Of course that means if you lose power or otherwise do not have an  B orderly shutdown, you will likely have to manually start SAMBA up.  I Of course if you are on a UPS and only reboot once or twice a year it is   not much of a problem.  C If you want to do it right, you will have to define the SAMBA_ROOT  F concealed logical name in your SYSTARTUP_VMS and install the SMBD.EXE 4 image as shared before you start the TCP/IP program.  G Then after the TCPIP program is started you call the SAMBA_STARTUP.COM   routine supplied with SAMBA.   -John  wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 13:11:41 -0700 & From: dundas@caltech.edu (John Dundas)8 Subject: Re: Simh terminal lines and networking with VMS< Message-ID: <dundas-1808051311410001@dundas-mac.caltech.edu>   Alan,   G In article <_yYMe.20100$0u2.7892@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk>, Alan Greig  <greigaln@netscape.net> wrote:  I > Now I want to be able to telnet into the emulated VAX from the outside  K > world so that's why I need reliable hangup. It might only be an emulated  G > system but I'd rather not have some random user telnet in and grab a  1 > setprv session which had dropped on me earlier.  > I > Now I think I have this working with the dzv11 emulation but the dhq11  I > emulation doesn't seem to signal a carrier drop and the next telnet in  H > grabs the previous session. As there seem to be a few quirks with the J > dzv11 emulation I'd rather use the dhq11 emultion so has anyone figured K > out how to make this work reliably? Note I am setting /perm/modem/hangup  L > and using the -am flags with dz and the modem and hangup commands with vh.  G I am the author of the VH driver.  The DHQ is a complex device and I no F doubt still have bugs in the simulation.  I just received my first bug> report this week; I am still evaluating the impact of the bug.  B That said, make certain when you set the characteristics of the VHH controllers in SIMH so that the simulator will hang up correctly.  To do this, issue the commands:    sim> SET VHn MODEM sim> SET VHn HANGUP   A I can't find my VMS notes at the moment but you might have to set E something more than /PERM/MODEM/HANG in VMS.  Not sure on this.  RSTS H required the correct incantation to work reliably.  However it should be3 achievable as I did it but that was ~18 months ago.    John   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 21:54:55 GMT ( From: Alan Greig <greigaln@netscape.net>8 Subject: Re: Simh terminal lines and networking with VMS+ Message-ID: <430503B1.4090609@netscape.net>    [posted and emailed]   John Dundas wrote: > Alan,  >  > I > I am the author of the VH driver.  The DHQ is a complex device and I no H > doubt still have bugs in the simulation.  I just received my first bug@ > report this week; I am still evaluating the impact of the bug.  F Congratulations to you and everyone else behind bits of simh. Haven't  managed to make it crash yet...   D > That said, make certain when you set the characteristics of the VHJ > controllers in SIMH so that the simulator will hang up correctly.  To do > this, issue the commands:  >  > sim> SET VHn MODEM > sim> SET VHn HANGUP  > C > I can't find my VMS notes at the moment but you might have to set A > something more than /PERM/MODEM/HANG in VMS.  Not sure on this.   ? Just /perm/modem should be enough for VMS to detect a droppped  E connection. With the DZ driver it does exactly what I expect. Adding  H /hangup allows VMS to drop the connection on normal logout and that bit J works fine with the vh controller. I have issued set vh0 modem and hangup.  H With the dz controller both hangup and modem (-am) work but I am seeing C other oddities. For example with all modem control off I can't log  H straight back in again without dropping the telnet connection. I can as I expected with vh. I'm also seeing occasional errors while sitting at the  E DCL prompt with dz which I don't see with vh (input timeout expired).       RSTS J > required the correct incantation to work reliably.  However it should be5 > achievable as I did it but that was ~18 months ago.   0 I'll double check I haven't done something daft.   > John   --  
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 19:22:39 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> Subject: Re: Squid for VMS+ Message-ID: <4305264F.49F51708@comcast.net>    Bob Koehler wrote: > b > In article <4303DED5.194ED82F@comcast.net>, David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes: > > ' > > Standard question: What is "squid"?  > >  > ' >    Friend of "sponge" and "starfish".   D When I lived in the "north shore" area of northern Illinois, sailorsC from the local naval training station were known as "squids" to the ! local gals - for obvious reasons.    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Aug 2005 18:27:19 -0700! From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com   Subject: Updated VMS InformationB Message-ID: <1124414839.947538.11720@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>   Dear Distribution Lists,  1 Attached is this weeks news, ok for external use.    Notes from Sue In the Press Training Jobs
 Press Release    Notes from Sue  C Have you picked your favorite use of a hobby license?  Please visit ? http://www.openvms.org/cool over 500 people have voted already.   F You have until Friday to submit an article CFP if you would like to do? an article for the next technical journal please submit article  abstractC at: "http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/journal/cfp.html".  Articles ? will be due in November, you will receive a template this month  (.doc)with an acceptance note.  F Technical Update Days scheduled for 2005 are as follows,  as soon as IG have registration sites from the local contact for all the sites I will 
 let you know.   4 Germany - 	Sept 26-27 "www.hp.com/de/events/openvms"   Italy - 	Sept 29-30  		Rome, Italy on September 29  		Milan, Italy  on September 30   0 Switzerland - Oct 3-4 Zurich  Monday and Tuesday   France - Oct 6, Paris, Thursday   G Netherlands - October 10-11 Monday and Tuesday 	"www.hp.nl/openvms-tud"    Sweden - October 13-14H "http://h40132.www4.hp.com/emea/events/event_info.asp?ev_id=3131&country =se&language=sv"   Australia - Nov 3-4 Sydney 		Nov 8-9 Melbourne    Singapore - Nov 14-15   G In the same way that we have the VMS quilt, button case and now the mug D display case, George Pagliarulo is going to be making a display caseF for DEC/VMS trinkets and memorabilia. These are the small items like ID have a marble fifth VAX anniversary cube or a square VMS The cure ofC the BLUES "VMS Engineering 1989" if you would like to contribute to C this cause just drop it off or mail the items to HP, Sue Skonetski, G ZK03-4/W23, 110 Spit Brook Road, Nashua, NH 03062.  The first unveiling A will be that the OpenVMS Advanced Technical Boot Camp in May 2006 F ______________________________________________________________________ In the Press  E http://www.itjungle.com/fhs/fhs080905-story01.html Biometrics and SSO 0 Treat Password Disease at Prescription Solutions    H http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/02 8-17-2005/0004090175&EDATE= Press release attached  H ________________________________________________________________________ _  Training@ Managing Evolution: OpenVMS on Itanium without Compromising Your, Business Now Available for On-Demand Viewing Duration: 45 minutes  E If you are unable to attend the live event you may still register and D will receive an e-mail when the on-demand version becomes available.  D It's the irony of IT that evolution is both necessary and stressful.A One of the latest evolutionary trends is the migration of OpenVMS @ applications from VAX and Alpha to Hewlett-Packard's new ItaniumC platform. For OpenVMS customers, this means making the move without F compromising data integrity while maximizing the benefits from current investments.  ? This live, interactive eSeminar will help attendees effectively B navigate OpenVMS application migration on VAX and Alpha to the newA Itanium platform. Hewlett-Packard, Computer Associates and PARSEC F professionals will be on hand to answer your questions about migratingC OpenVMS applications. You'll also take with you new knowledge about B technology management solutions that will help lower risks to your	 business.   B Join Hewlett-Packard's John Egolf, Computer Associates' PrabhakaraE Bhat, and Wayne Sauer, President of PARSEC, an HP and CA partner. Our  panel of experts will discuss:     The Road to Itanium . Integrity Servers and the HP FastTrack program Managing OpenVMS from OpenVMS . Managing OpenVMS in multi-platform enterprisesA Planning considerations, solutions and services to ease migration  Featured Speakers  Vic Ahmed, CEO - PARSEC Group E Prabhakara Bhat, Product Manager - Computer Associates International, E Inc. John Egolf, Program Manager - Hewlett-Packard Co. Frank Derfler, + VP, Market Experts Group - Ziff Davis Media " Please visit www.eSeminarslive.com> for a complete list of upcoming Ziff Davis Internet eSeminars.  H ________________________________________________________________________ ________________ Jobs     IT staff shortage looming A http://www.networkworld.com/research/2005/080805-it-shortage.html     % OpenVMS System Administrator Position   F 	Banner Health is a very large, non-profit, Healthcare provider, based= in Phoenix, AZ.  The company currently has ~22,000 employees, C supporting ~4000 beds, in 50+ facilities, across 7 States. With the > exception of our Alaska facilities, all of our facilities willD eventually be hosted from common data center(s) in Phoenix, and this process is ~50% complete.   A 	Currently we are supporting two Clinical Applications, both from F Cerner Corporation.  The Cerner "Classic" application (currently being? phased out) is hosted on a CI cluster of GS140's with "Digital" F Storageworks (HSJ50 controllers).  The Cerner "Millennium" applicationE (currently being rolled out across the Enterprise) is hosted on an NI C Cluster, comprised of GS1280's, with some ES40's.   The storage for  thisB cluster is HP Fibre-channel SAN with HP Storageworks (HSG80's) andE EVA5000 Storage sub-systems.  Separate Environments exist for testing  and certification.  ? 	This is a very exciting time to be working at Banner since, in F addition to the Millennium Application rollout (~60% complete), we areB in the process of building a "Disaster Tolerant" Production systemD which will incorporate all the great features of OpenVMS to create aD Wide Area Cluster spanning 2 data centers, with the ultimate goal of "zero" downtime.  E We are seeking a highly experienced OpenVMS Administrator to join our @ team.     The successful candidate should be self motivated, andD committed to process improvement.    He/She will be expected to "hit the F ground running", quickly familiarize themselves with our environments,E and be able to contribute to the discussion and implementation of our G OpenVMS projects.    Finally, as with many other industries, Healthcare G is very sensitive to down-time, therefore the successful candidate will A be required to have a very strong awareness of the criticality of C application availability, and must be committed to Customer Service   E The prime requirements include in-depth knowledge and wide experience  with:   > 1.	The OpenVMS Operating System and layered products, and alsoF OpenVMS Clustering technology in particular, CI and NI based clusters.0 2.	All aspects of OpenVMS System Administration.8 3.	Digital/Compaq/HP hardware including ES and GS SeriesD Alphaservers, and CI and SAN based Storage (HSJ, HSG and EVA storage subsystems) and infrastructure. @ 4.	OpenVMS Performance Monitoring/Tuning, and Capacity Planning. 5.	Good DCL scripting skills. @ 6.	Network Hardware and software (including DECNet Phase IV, and@ Phase V) and TCPIP Software (we currently use TCPIP Services for OpenVMS)  A The following secondary skills would also be highly advantageous;   @ 1.	Experience supporting Cerner Millennium and Oracle on OpenVMS	 Platform. . 2.	Experience with Foreign Systems interfaces.9 3.	Positive and analytic approach to problem analysis and ( resolution.   i.e. "get the systems up."9 4.	Strong project management skills.    Able to work with F professional and technical staff to manage large projects with on-time	 delivery. C 5.	Strong verbal, analytic and writing skills on both technical and  non-technical matters.  B Banner Health is a multi-platform shop, including AS400, zOS, AIX,G SOLARIS, Red Hat Linux, OpenVMS, and Microsoft Windows.      Experience B in any of these other areas would also be considered advantageous.  F If you are interested in applying for this position or you know anyone5 that may be qualified, please e-mail resumes to me at 3 dave.baxter@bannerhealth.com , by 31st August 2005.      -----Original Message-----      0 From: Paul Williams [mailto:williams@parsec.com]( Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 12:27 PM To: Skonetski, Susan Subject: Job opening at PARSEC    A Please share our OpenVMS opening with anyone you know that may be  looking.  C PARSEC Group provides training, support and consulting services for A OpenVMS and Tru64 UNIX. We are the largest hp authorized training E center for OpenVMS and Tru64 UNIX. We are looking for someone who can > support, consult and train on OpenVMS systems. 5 years or moreF experience with current versions of OpenVMS is a must. Job is based inD Denver, CO and includes some travel and on call duty. Programming onG OpenVMS and/or the ability to perform similar functions with Tru64 UNIX  is a huge plus.   ? Required skills: OpenVMS, DCL, daily system management, cluster C management, crash dump analysis, tuning, operating system upgrades, ( SAN, troubleshooting, and communication.  " Send resume to williams@parsec.com       Thanks,   
 Paul Williams  PARSEC Group 720-962-95900 ________________________________________________, Press Release from Advanced Systems Concepts  9 http://www.advsyscon.com/NewsArticles/RemoteSHADOW_HP.pdf    PRESS CONTACT:
 Belinda Banks  S&S Public Relations, Inc. 718/320-4898 belinda@sspr.comE Advanced Systems Concepts, Inc. Announces RemoteSHADOW(r) Support For G HP Integrity OpenVMS Servers For Enterprises Choosing HP's Most Popular B Server Line for Their OpenVMS Applications, ASCI Assures ContinuedF Reliable Data Replication PARSIPPANY, NJ - (16 August 2005) - AdvancedD Systems Concepts, Inc. (ASCI), a leading provider of system softwareC solutions that enhance Windows(r), UNIX, Linux and OpenVMS systems, = announced today that a new version of RemoteSHADOW(r), ASCI's D internationally-used data replication product, has been released forE use on HP Integrity servers running OpenVMS. Support for this popular C hardware/OS platform gives RemoteSHADOW-and its large complement of E multi-national corporate and institutional users-a greater ability to D leverage the most current server technology while also retaining theD industry's most assured method for maintaining data accessibility inE the event of a system or site failure. HP's announcement earlier this E year of OpenVMS v8.2 support for HP Integrity rx4640-8, rx2620-2, and C rx1620-2 servers, as well as AlphaServer systems, demonstrated that @ company's continued commitment to the OpenVMS OS. HP anticipates? OpenVMS to be available for the full line of Integrity servers, G including the HP Superdome Server, by the first half of 2006. "Like HP, @ Advanced Systems Concepts believes in helping its customers stayE current in OpenVMS-based systems," said Jim Manias, Vice President of G Marketing and Sales at Advanced Systems Concepts, Inc. "Our new support G for HP Integrity servers enables enterprises-especially those companies = using OpenVMS to execute their most mission-critical business C services-to continually modernize their architecture and reduce the E time to recovery in the event of a system or site failure without the ; risk of losing data due to technological, human, or natural B occurrences." RemoteSHADOW offers businesses an easy to implement,B application-transparent method for ensuring that essential data is@ continuously protected, updated and available in case of a localC production site failure. The software replicates data to a captive, @ enterprise-operated remote site, or facility-managed site of the@ company's choice, according to rules set by the enterprise. WithG RemoteSHADOW, the organization can begin processing within minutes of a C failure. Unlike conventional backup/restore solutions, RemoteSHADOW C maximizes performance while minimizing operational costs and system F usage through a choice of two data transmission strategies-synchronousB or asynchronous. With synchronous transfer, data is written at theC production and remote facility immediately. Synchronous transfer is F both the most real-time, and the most bandwidth-intensive, alternative for critical data replication. - more -G Advanced Systems Concepts, Inc. Announces ActiveBatch(r) V5 Support For ? Microsoft 64-Bit Operating Systems-Page 2 For deployments where F bandwidth cost takes precedence over real-time needs, RemoteSHADOW canF also write data to the secondary location using asynchronous transfer.F This mode, while always attempting to stay fully synchronized with the: production system, applies I/O at the local side when peak@ periods-either expected or unexpected-occur, sending the data inC time-ordered sequence to the remote side over the bandwidth that is F available. These I/Os are written within a latency period, measured inF seconds, that the business can tolerate, thereby saving the enterpriseB from purchasing extra bandwidth to accommodate peak load times. InD addition to OpenVMS, RemoteSHADOW supports Tru64 Unix as well as SunG Microsystems Solaris systems. To register for a free evaluation copy of < RemoteSHADOW on OpenVMS for HP Integrity products, log on toD www.advsyscon.com, email the company at sales@advsyscon.com, or callB 1-800-229-2724 (international callers should dial (973) 539-2660).G About Advanced Systems Concepts, Inc.: Headquartered in Parsippany, New E Jersey, Advanced Systems Concepts, Inc. offers many software products G and options for users of Microsoft Windows, UNIX, Linux, and HP OpenVMS B systems. These products provide answers to software developers and@ system managers with improved system efficiency and utilization.G Advanced Systems Concepts today has over 200,000 licenses installed and ? a worldwide base of customers in 27 countries around the world. G Advanced Systems Concepts is a Microsoft Independent Solution Vendor, a B HP/Compaq Business Partner, a Sun Catalyst member, an IBM BusinessA Partner and an HP-UX Power Partner. For more information, see the G company's website at http://www.advsyscon.com or call (800) 229-2724. #  # # B Copyright(c) 2005 Advanced Systems Concepts, Inc. ActiveBatch is aE registered trademark of Advanced Systems Concepts, Inc. Other company C and/or product names are trademarks and/or registered trademarks of  their respective firms.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 15:22:37 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> ! Subject: Re: VMS as a SMTP client , Message-ID: <4304DFF8.B165CE51@teksavvy.com>   anguel@web.de wrote: > A > Is there a tutorial on how to get VMS to exchanging mail with a F > provider using a modem? Say dialing out, sending outbound mail usingH > SMTP-Auth, retrieving inbound mail using POP3, hanging up. I'm sure itF > somehow can work. My machine is a Alpha running OpenVMS 7.3 and UCX.   http://www.hp.com/go/vms  F and then look for the VMS online documentation , and then look for the! TCPIP Services management guide.    H Dealing with outgoing PPP calls is not easy on VMS. It really expects to> be given a static IP (or DHCP client), so it isn't too easy toG dynamically dial out, be given a random IP address and configure the IP  stack on the fly.   E (It would be easier to get a router which has PP dial out capability, H and which does NAT on the LAN side which would allow you to have a fixedI IP address on the VMS machine which would make things MUCH easier on you.     G From the mail point of view. VMS TCPIP Services has a full fledged SMTP F server that is able to handle incoming and outgoing mail. It does lack+ modern features though, such as SMTP-Auth.    D Fro a POP point of view, TCPIP Services has a POP server, but no POPF client (to pickup mail on another machine). However there are some POPG client software available here and there, I have one but never packaged  it for distribution.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 19:41:20 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) ! Subject: Re: VMS as a SMTP client 3 Message-ID: <Av5Ne.10602$a83.9928@news.cpqcorp.net>   Y In article <1124368102.101727.128010@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, anguel@web.de writes:   B   OpenVMS itself isn't specifically the POP3 or (preferably, in my?   case) IMAP client, some application or package is the client. A   TCP/IP Services has POP3 and IMAP Servers, but not the clients. D   I don't know that one of the other IP stacks available for OpenVMSC   has a POP3 and/or IMAP client; one or more of the packages might.   @ :Is there a tutorial on how to get VMS to exchanging mail with aE :provider using a modem? Say dialing out, sending outbound mail using G :SMTP-Auth, retrieving inbound mail using POP3, hanging up. I'm sure it E :somehow can work. My machine is a Alpha running OpenVMS 7.3 and UCX.  :Thanks for every hint.   D   Probably the easiest approach is to fire up Mozilla and to use the@   provided mail client within.  There are other mail clients forC   OpenVMS that have POP3 or IMAP support, and various of these are  D   available on the OpenVMS Freeware.  The native MAIL interface doesC   not, itself, have POP3 or IMAP client capabilities.  (I'd look at D   Pine, though there are certainly various other clients available.)  D   Dealing with an ISP is always somewhat "entertaining", as each ISPB   can have different requirements and expectations.  And different   sets of ports blocked.  :-)   E   Some ISPs will permit configurations with mx records and will allow E   you to bring up an SMTP server locally; to participate as a peer in E   the SMTP network, connecting into an ISP SMTP server.  Various ISPs '   will not permit these configurations.   C   If folks have particular client preferences or recommentations in D   this area, do post pointers -- I'll add the pointers into the next   iteration of the OpenVMS FAQ.     N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------    Date: 18 Aug 2005 11:05:38 -0700" From: dave.baxter@bannerhealth.com? Subject: Re: Was --> Print Queue in "starting" state -- cause?? C Message-ID: <1124388338.701545.208240@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   F      Thanks to everyone who responded.     Problem resolved (I think).  <     Checking back in old OPERATOR.LOGs I found a QMAN "error@ communicating with.......", followed by an "insufficient dynamic memory" error.B     Subsequent run of AUTOGEN recommended substantial increases inG NPAGEDYN and NPAGEVIR on two of my nodes, C1 and C3,(these changes have 8 been put in place and are awaiting a reboot later today)E     One of my nodes seemed to be happy with its allocation of dynamic G memory (C2), however this was the second node in the autostart failover  list. D     I disabled Autostart on the two nodes with memory issues (C1 andE C3) and "what-do-ya-know" my print queue started correctly, hosted on  C2. E     I am primarily posting this as a indication of one possible cause G for the print queues in "starting" state issue, (should anyone have the & misfortune to come upon it themselves)   Thanks again   Dave Baxter    ------------------------------    Date: 18 Aug 2005 11:06:07 -0700" From: dave.baxter@bannerhealth.com? Subject: Re: Was --> Print Queue in "starting" state -- cause?? C Message-ID: <1124388366.932891.256790@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   F      Thanks to everyone who responded.     Problem resolved (I think).  <     Checking back in old OPERATOR.LOGs I found a QMAN "error@ communicating with.......", followed by an "insufficient dynamic memory" error.B     Subsequent run of AUTOGEN recommended substantial increases inG NPAGEDYN and NPAGEVIR on two of my nodes, C1 and C3,(these changes have 8 been put in place and are awaiting a reboot later today)E     One of my nodes seemed to be happy with its allocation of dynamic G memory (C2), however this was the second node in the autostart failover  list. D     I disabled Autostart on the two nodes with memory issues (C1 andE C3) and "what-do-ya-know" my print queue started correctly, hosted on  C2. E     I am primarily posting this as a indication of one possible cause G for the print queues in "starting" state issue, (should anyone have the & misfortune to come upon it themselves)   Thanks again   Dave Baxter    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 16:37:22 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 8 Subject: Re: Zotob worm shows VMS notebooks needed ASAP!, Message-ID: <4304F178.8998C2DB@teksavvy.com>   bob@instantwhip.com wrote: > / > why isn't Intel making a 1P itanium notebook? ) > anyone at HP care to answer why you are + > missing out on a potentially huge market?     F It was originally meant to be from laptops to data centre. But as timeA progressed, Intel shrank the market potential for that IA64 thing H because of its performance aspects , power consumption and cost. IA64 isH relegated to date centre markets now, with token servers configurable asG a workstation for developers. And that will narrow between now and 2007 4 as the 8086 scales up even more in the 64 bit space.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 19:57:38 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> 8 Subject: Re: Zotob worm shows VMS notebooks needed ASAP!0 Message-ID: <11ga7rtdefo0sd7@corp.supernews.com>   bob@instantwhip.com wrote:/ > why isn't Intel making a 1P itanium notebook? ) > anyone at HP care to answer why you are + > missing out on a potentially huge market?  >   H They haven't yet settled on a vendor for the little red wagon, which is 9 used to carry around the power source and cooling system.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.461 ************************                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          pttD"<Dqt3Ho_@.ݒڡRS:ePkS2&3ZRC#|&Ч& $d@G;pc	+f&+@A_iX66la}g@n2!1C3v}"x$Z¢Mv`b]ݝN(*܄Vuu5]`*neB~Ԑ_8<uy/1U?%￈RWY7jkrPo'qGrs38˶WlQ=aDqDZ*A+@(	ULPއK%8G0HPM#44"7nDj>#ctJ\<ab
U<PއK9hɃ&1qWCæ W:yX䁗Yc̰#fE^D
P<yBDe3c0
T]3P%Pi5|&(Ȏ;֔&\p=p7n%]"܅x*sWm=:jwv_rN,)buVA_ax&}Ѥ@8C3b6}5-=ȈSI9W5 5Y.H+TLLQXȦ aDUu%틕|~Z>}lc{4qZ/R4N`xxZ;@/ǎzg^H nSpg@·`y6wE'sZiJV
Ƹ}
+LUSg#A܁h>Q+5GH@q㐰sQf4I@V	8=jL! }W%It=:O~X[gϛq:8g ︮GW»G x`#!6 S
Ę5*[l6+M#fO=eXxo64#cNo<vacRp`}Ǧds/a#lJ,á{I,' cWu`
ZⲨ&o%o0k%MH5!}tll[35ME(4ЈBulmzi;r}Ⱦf`AVtaɂ&QCy6DTj9UV*њo3yp428w5<tߘ׽/3tGu{s|;P$CW!]U u{?~)/EXw{M=ڹ)\#ܲ
yX/LNs/̾/gVY0YK 4a
*"]I˖43FEdK,TxF! Yv釕_nϛJӒ35I^ީR4;6GiExuqM60},fE ba^XAPMomfq6,U3V+g*?d,bӹ*Zrb6R`dna0	[Z:`uPw&_կؐRif(y'zfAma6K\ V+-;qB;a48I
(16dz-&[B}ෆv9"+,܂!h@\.u.·A{ޥSi><rʫHbbaU(Ҥӱc7ѥkG?yg.|}TZY%k9|	fiEsm^ɚ C|،
j6cևLDhn3 ܬ8AL|FjMo+8bl5caETg\䬕$eTk9k)r#USh5g|46X94qZU+jEW-^DJ)zG4]*q!JnOgnZU+Υi5]wLUU\U@
5^pWaG;J:Zy
PlsLl.Wʳ~僕3iX}P8}-XQgԃ5jيѬaS5beGN։]@ZTiZ+6K++4zZ/neͻi|֌=iMc-n֍պZȠɔ&SZ;hǊ+ƅ
tr{;ר@jٹtd%MZFeW7ה
]9epmYA=$wHgV,hK%2Ρ9N0ʹgQ'Ww3ԜŬWo{5ά>>㳊4n_cj1Ԛ-+3וjz۩ZZGV.H0'Akj)֐#ՕShX{ʷ=ˌ2ZXSc}Ns׸B
un/i"֌#thB%57xu҉a;*o
-]Mњ_&4Ѱ}ҁr
<X9[R*K;s\?Wr}WLy>#3roܾ33*@1lt
t>,-ZՠdЂj=hMZ5iz9HBTiTQV֊w
+kMc&lOnYhdUa*VM4ҺwE_+.D#SҙVs
zxM}XSȬn+m:_N,eG);ubsЌ:8:No.1uc)WAXpuc9G3>3j>nlæHºA੺Z7V.H(-(֍դUV$͕FUhX{4:X4撚FZ7VjX-aTJS){WtcBtc92=UkX;nԍUJ1؈溱]Ѝ-rZptcC|\G76W/*o{iͥ;p˳Ԏz,~,ϤdY5dE=QE6hudlŕdhjzZQV+.HB-I֔4VX)%}iF绿}߿MDwM+4ЪZU"˚wXc+{jh[hlVB&M4wF[Z\1/D]ZSߺFZaZ+Lϥ0-i55wLe:*t .(M5kMpԦ!Cb\Gs:_].q靃7ρAϳ\S)v.L.L>Htu|¼`8h3<p1ãY;^&O2,{54VkOa	}qZ{Vk-y75>ڳg<ͽil֞ڳZ{V4dJk_q1Ά9:EWg|Ma]s8]-㰄w'\o֞}s?{r-ùRx><tSgďyq5i%Xgƹ=N FZN]nK3 Z	pKi$^m