1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 26 Aug 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 476       Contents: Re: Adding users Re: BNC to VGA adapterP Re: Cerner hopefully is using Zotob to show why hospitals should run VMS! VMS! VP Re: Cerner hopefully is using Zotob to show why hospitals should run VMS! VMS! V! Re: CHARON-VAX freeware available ! Re: CHARON-VAX freeware available ! Re: CHARON-VAX freeware available ! Re: CHARON-VAX freeware available ! Re: CHARON-VAX freeware available ! Re: CHARON-VAX freeware available ! Re: CHARON-VAX freeware available ! Re: CHARON-VAX freeware available ! Re: CHARON-VAX freeware available ! Re: CHARON-VAX freeware available ! Re: CHARON-VAX freeware available ! Re: CHARON-VAX freeware available ! Re: CHARON-VAX freeware available ! Re: CHARON-VAX freeware available  Copying jar on OpenVMS Re: Copying jar on OpenVMS Re: encryption for backup * Re: HP to dump itanium - bring back alpha?* Re: HP to dump itanium - bring back alpha?P Migrating from OpenVMS Alpha to OpenVMS Itanium workshop - 20th & 21st September) Re: Optimum cluster size for EVA storage? ) Re: Optimum cluster size for EVA storage? ) Re: Optimum cluster size for EVA storage?  Q3CY205 arrived... Re: Q3CY205 arrived...! Re: Simh. How to triple the speed ! Re: Simh. How to triple the speed ! Re: Simh. How to triple the speed ! Re: Simh. How to triple the speed ! Re: Simh. How to triple the speed  Re: Upgrading memory in DS20E  Re: VMS performance measuring   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 26 Aug 2005 10:54:11 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Adding users * Message-ID: <3n8amjFb2bnU1@individual.net>  + In article <$EALH1ugVsrZ@vms.mppmu.mpg.de>, 1 	huber@NOBODY-mppmu.mpg.de (Joseph Huber) writes: b > In article <430E644D.6B38A1F8@comcast.net>, David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes:F >> That looks like it depends on users always having a UIC identifier. >> Could be a brash assumption.  >   1 > For Bills purpose, I think it is not a problem: 7 > I suggest to create a first account in group manually ? > (e.g. for the group administrator), so the identifiers exist, C > and the bulk procedure can generate all other UICs automatically.  >     B Actually, I have no problem with providing the UIC's manually as I4 actually use them to differentiate classes of users.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 00:24:25 +0800  From: prep@prep.synonet.com  Subject: Re: BNC to VGA adapter - Message-ID: <87mzn47jk6.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   $ GreyCloud <cumulus@mist.com> writes:  = > VAXstation 4000 VLC... it has the 3 BNC female video on the  > back.   E Ah, that is a 3W3 connector. Get a VGA-BNC cable, a 3 core will do, 3 C BNC barrels and plug it onto the end of the standard 3W3-BNC cable. D Most of the signal degradation will be in the DC15 VGA connector, so$ don't worry about ti being too long.   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 10:14:30 +0800  From: prep@prep.synonet.com Y Subject: Re: Cerner hopefully is using Zotob to show why hospitals should run VMS! VMS! V - Message-ID: <87zmr578c9.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   5 "Dr. Dweeb" <NOSPAM_5msg0h202@sneakemail.com> writes:   
 > Z wrote: >> bob@instantwhip.com wrote:   6 >>> you can on vms because vms doesn't get viruses ...   >> Says who?  < > I believe that about 15 years ago someone demonstrated theD > feasibility of developing a VMS virus, but I was not at that DECUS: > so I do not recall details, just second hand references.  F > However, in general, it is probably correct to say that VMS does notC > get vira - reasons a plenty, but technical skill of virus writers A > and lack of targets would be two good reasons, plus the general B > technical problem of actually getting the things to execute in a > mode that could cause damage.   > It was done for real. There was a virii copy of LOGINOUT witha* backdoor and the same CRC as the original.  @ The WANK worm used SYSTEM, FIELD, and object 0 as the main tools to spread.     --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 05:28:56 -0700 ( From: Jeff Cameron <roktsci@comcast.net>Y Subject: Re: Cerner hopefully is using Zotob to show why hospitals should run VMS! VMS! V 0 Message-ID: <BF345918.1319E%roktsci@comcast.net>  ? On 8/25/05 7:14 PM, in article 87zmr578c9.fsf@prep.synonet.com, 6 "prep@prep.synonet.com" <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote:  7 > "Dr. Dweeb" <NOSPAM_5msg0h202@sneakemail.com> writes:  >  >> Z wrote:  >>> bob@instantwhip.com wrote: > 7 >>>> you can on vms because vms doesn't get viruses ...  > 
 >>> Says who?  > = >> I believe that about 15 years ago someone demonstrated the E >> feasibility of developing a VMS virus, but I was not at that DECUS ; >> so I do not recall details, just second hand references.  > G >> However, in general, it is probably correct to say that VMS does not D >> get vira - reasons a plenty, but technical skill of virus writersB >> and lack of targets would be two good reasons, plus the generalC >> technical problem of actually getting the things to execute in a   >> mode that could cause damage. > @ > It was done for real. There was a virii copy of LOGINOUT witha, > backdoor and the same CRC as the original. > B > The WANK worm used SYSTEM, FIELD, and object 0 as the main tools
 > to spread.    D Virii for VMS have been written, no doubt, and VMS systems have beenD infected. That is not the point. The proven claim is that a ProperlyI configured VMS system have been declared "Un-hackable" for break-ins thus L making the installation of a virus not possible. Secondly, a virus installedL or run from an unprivileged account cannot cause damage or infection outside of the unprivileged account.  E An old roommate of mine (who was a windows advocate) once produced an C article where a company's computer system was hacked into and files L destroyed, and the system was VMS. His exclamation was "HA, you were wrong!"J as he slapped down the article. Upon reading the article we found that theE hackers got into the system account by using the password of MANAGER.    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 07:28:32 GMT + From: Robert Boers <r_boers@softresint.com> * Subject: Re: CHARON-VAX freeware available* Message-ID: <430ec49c$1@news.deckpoint.ch>   Robert Boers wrote: / > We posted downloads of CHARON-VAX freeware on 9 > http://www.softresint.com/charon-vax/Tools_and_tips.htm  > G > These downloads are available for OpenVMS/Alpha, OpenVMS/Itanium and  F > Linux. They provide an emulated VAX 3600 with 2 disk drives, CDROM, A > floppy disk and Ethernet support. There are no time or runtime  F > limitations; these versions are for non-commercial use only and are  > unsupported. >  > Robert Boers.   8 The versions for OpenVMS are VAX model 3100/98 actually.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 07:31:06 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing)* Subject: Re: CHARON-VAX freeware available6 Message-ID: <00A48D5D.E96F4A16@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  X In article <430ec49c$1@news.deckpoint.ch>, Robert Boers <r_boers@softresint.com> writes: >Robert Boers wrote:0 >> We posted downloads of CHARON-VAX freeware on: >> http://www.softresint.com/charon-vax/Tools_and_tips.htm >>  H >> These downloads are available for OpenVMS/Alpha, OpenVMS/Itanium and G >> Linux. They provide an emulated VAX 3600 with 2 disk drives, CDROM,  B >> floppy disk and Ethernet support. There are no time or runtime G >> limitations; these versions are for non-commercial use only and are   >> unsupported.  >>   >> Robert Boers. > 9 >The versions for OpenVMS are VAX model 3100/98 actually.     I Even though I have no immediate plans to use these, I thank you very much  for making them available.   -- Alan    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 02:45:33 -0500 % From: Dan Foster <usenet@evilphb.org> * Subject: Re: CHARON-VAX freeware available5 Message-ID: <slrndgti4t.4gu.usenet@zappy.catbert.org>   W In article <430ec301$1@news.deckpoint.ch>, Robert Boers <r_boers@softresint.com> wrote: / > We posted downloads of CHARON-VAX freeware on 9 > http://www.softresint.com/charon-vax/Tools_and_tips.htm  > G > These downloads are available for OpenVMS/Alpha, OpenVMS/Itanium and  F > Linux. They provide an emulated VAX 3600 with 2 disk drives, CDROM, A > floppy disk and Ethernet support. There are no time or runtime  F > limitations; these versions are for non-commercial use only and are  > unsupported.  E Much appreciated! I'd heard lots of good things about CHARON-VAX over C the years, but will be nice to finally see it in action, firsthand.    -Dan   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Aug 2005 02:47:06 -0700# From: "Galen" <gltackett@gmail.com> * Subject: Re: CHARON-VAX freeware availableC Message-ID: <1125049626.700719.138110@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    Robert,   G It's great to hear that these are available. Thanks SRI for doing this!   F Now, if I could just come up with an Alpha, an Itanium, or a Linux boxE at home. Unfortunately all I have there are a Windows box (my wife's, D who wouldn't appreciate me putting Linux on it) and my OS X PowerMac G4.    ;-(   (me crying)   @ Even though I can't use these, it's quite gratifying to see them available at last.   Galen    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 10:11:06 GMT + From: Robert Boers <r_boers@softresint.com> * Subject: Re: CHARON-VAX freeware available* Message-ID: <430eeab7$1@news.deckpoint.ch>   Galen wrote:	 > Robert,  > I > It's great to hear that these are available. Thanks SRI for doing this!  > H > Now, if I could just come up with an Alpha, an Itanium, or a Linux boxG > at home. Unfortunately all I have there are a Windows box (my wife's, F > who wouldn't appreciate me putting Linux on it) and my OS X PowerMac > G4.  >  > ;-(   (me crying)  > B > Even though I can't use these, it's quite gratifying to see them > available at last. >  > Galen  > G There is a Windows version as well, but it is time limited. We want to   keep something to sell...    Rob    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 10:30:07 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG* Subject: Re: CHARON-VAX freeware available0 Message-ID: <00A48D90.1093377E@SendSpamHere.ORG>  i In article <1125049626.700719.138110@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, "Galen" <gltackett@gmail.com> writes:  >Robert, > H >It's great to hear that these are available. Thanks SRI for doing this! > G >Now, if I could just come up with an Alpha, an Itanium, or a Linux box F >at home. Unfortunately all I have there are a Windows box (my wife's,E >who wouldn't appreciate me putting Linux on it) and my OS X PowerMac  >G4.  0 Et tu.  How about an OS X version of CHARON-VAX?     --  K VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 11:43:09 GMT 1 From: Jay Maynard <jmaynard@thebrain.conmicro.cx> * Subject: Re: CHARON-VAX freeware available: Message-ID: <slrndgu027.ag0.jmaynard@thebrain.conmicro.cx>  K On 2005-08-26, VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG <VAXman-@SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote: k > In article <1125049626.700719.138110@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, "Galen" <gltackett@gmail.com> writes: H >>Now, if I could just come up with an Alpha, an Itanium, or a Linux boxG >>at home. Unfortunately all I have there are a Windows box (my wife's, F >>who wouldn't appreciate me putting Linux on it) and my OS X PowerMac >>G4. 2 > Et tu.  How about an OS X version of CHARON-VAX?  L The Linux version should port fairly easily. There will be one major area ofJ difficulty: If, as I suspect, CHARON-VAX for Linux uses the tun/tap driverK to get access to the TCP/IP stack for the emulated Ethernet interface, that I code will need work to run on OS X, as well as an external TUN/TAP driver L (since there's not one built into the system). A driver is available under aI BSD license at http://www-user.rhrk.uni-kl.de/~nissler/tuntap/ , although I it's got some bugs that make it not work very well with Hercules (the IBM  mainframe emulator).   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 14:00:25 +0200 3 From: Michael Unger <spam.to.unger@spamgourmet.com> * Subject: Re: CHARON-VAX freeware available* Message-ID: <3n8em8Fc43pU1@individual.net>  * On 2005-08-26 12:11, "Robert Boers" wrote:  I > There is a Windows version as well, but it is time limited. We want to  <                                                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^ > keep something to sell...   A And obviously limited to Windows XP. (There are many files in the B installation kit pointing to ".NET".) I'd like to see Windows 2000I supported too, and a "released" (about 8 to 12 hours) runtime limitation.    Michael    --  ; Real names enhance the probability of getting real answers. 5 My e-mail account at DECUS Munich is no longer valid.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 08:56:08 -0400 ? From: "David Turner, Island Computers US Corp" <david@hpaq.net> * Subject: Re: CHARON-VAX freeware available0 Message-ID: <11gu481tna11k60@corp.supernews.com>  K How about a little DS10L 466Mhz EV6 workhorse with 256MB, CDROM Floppy Dual # ethernet 10/100 and a 30GB IDE Disk   D We have a special running in September for $549 (with 1 yr warranty)  " That's cheaper than a G4 or P4/AMD   DT   --     David B Turner Island Computers US Corp 2700 Gregory St, Suite 180 Savannah GA 31404  Tel: 912 447 6622 X201 Cell: 912 447 6622 X252  Fax: 912 201 0402  Email: dbturner@icusc.com  Web: http://www.islandco.com% ===================================== < All orders are subject to the following terms and conditions. of sale. These should be read before ordering.% http://www.islandco.com/warranty.html   . "Galen" <gltackett@gmail.com> wrote in message= news:1125049626.700719.138110@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... 	 > Robert,  > I > It's great to hear that these are available. Thanks SRI for doing this!  > H > Now, if I could just come up with an Alpha, an Itanium, or a Linux boxG > at home. Unfortunately all I have there are a Windows box (my wife's, F > who wouldn't appreciate me putting Linux on it) and my OS X PowerMac > G4.  >  > ;-(   (me crying)  > B > Even though I can't use these, it's quite gratifying to see them > available at last. >  > Galen  >    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Aug 2005 09:29:22 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) * Subject: Re: CHARON-VAX freeware available3 Message-ID: <9ACirfGGUqas@eisner.encompasserve.org>   X In article <430ec49c$1@news.deckpoint.ch>, Robert Boers <r_boers@softresint.com> writes: > Robert Boers wrote: 0 >> We posted downloads of CHARON-VAX freeware on: >> http://www.softresint.com/charon-vax/Tools_and_tips.htm >>  H >> These downloads are available for OpenVMS/Alpha, OpenVMS/Itanium and G >> Linux. They provide an emulated VAX 3600 with 2 disk drives, CDROM,  B >> floppy disk and Ethernet support. There are no time or runtime G >> limitations; these versions are for non-commercial use only and are   >> unsupported.  >>   >> Robert Boers. > : > The versions for OpenVMS are VAX model 3100/98 actually.  B Is there a VAX-on-Alpha emulator that behaves like a MicroVAX II ?9 (I am interested in running VMS V4.2, not as a hobbyist.)    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 11:05:23 -0400 2 From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com>* Subject: Re: CHARON-VAX freeware available. Message-ID: <430EF773.11512.76E03C5@localhost>  . On 26 Aug 2005 at 9:29, Larry Kilgallen wrote:G > Is there a VAX-on-Alpha emulator that behaves like a MicroVAX II ? (I 8 > am interested in running VMS V4.2, not as a hobbyist.)  : The Alpha versions are 3100/98 and 66x0 family at present.  : The NuVAX product family will emulate a MicroVAX II.  See:  ,    http://www.logical-co.com/NuVAX/NuVAX.htm  
 --Stan Quayle  Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------- Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363 3 8572 North Spring Ct., Pickerington, OH  43147  USA 0 stan-at-stanq-dot-com       http://www.stanq.com) "OpenVMS, when downtime is not an option"    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Aug 2005 11:19:24 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) * Subject: Re: CHARON-VAX freeware available3 Message-ID: <uHASNs5Jl3tZ@eisner.encompasserve.org>   r In article <11gu481tna11k60@corp.supernews.com>, "David Turner, Island Computers US Corp" <david@hpaq.net> writes:M > How about a little DS10L 466Mhz EV6 workhorse with 256MB, CDROM Floppy Dual % > ethernet 10/100 and a 30GB IDE Disk  > F > We have a special running in September for $549 (with 1 yr warranty) > $ > That's cheaper than a G4 or P4/AMD  6 But I hear you can get the G4 or P4/AMD by mail order.   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Aug 2005 11:21:54 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) * Subject: Re: CHARON-VAX freeware available3 Message-ID: <UJMRpCWzXb8i@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <430EF773.11512.76E03C5@localhost>, "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com> writes: 0 > On 26 Aug 2005 at 9:29, Larry Kilgallen wrote:H >> Is there a VAX-on-Alpha emulator that behaves like a MicroVAX II ? (I9 >> am interested in running VMS V4.2, not as a hobbyist.)  > < > The Alpha versions are 3100/98 and 66x0 family at present.   Ok.   < > The NuVAX product family will emulate a MicroVAX II.  See: > . >    http://www.logical-co.com/NuVAX/NuVAX.htm  C That seems to be hardware.  My interest was VAX emulation on Alpha.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 12:59:40 -0400 - From: William Webb <william.w.webb@gmail.com> * Subject: Re: CHARON-VAX freeware available7 Message-ID: <8660a3a105082609593c4af4a0@mail.gmail.com>   L On 26 Aug 2005 11:19:24 -0500, Larry Kilgallen <Kilgallen@spamcop.net> wrot= e:L > In article <11gu481tna11k60@corp.supernews.com>, "David Turner, Island Co=) mputers US Corp" <david@hpaq.net> writes: L > > How about a little DS10L 466Mhz EV6 workhorse with 256MB, CDROM Floppy = Dual' > > ethernet 10/100 and a 30GB IDE Disk  > > H > > We have a special running in September for $549 (with 1 yr warranty) > > & > > That's cheaper than a G4 or P4/AMD >=208 > But I hear you can get the G4 or P4/AMD by mail order. >=20  % And Island does what?  Teleportation?    WWWebb   --=20 C NOTE: This email address is only used for noncommerical VMS-related  correspondence. C All unsolicited commercial email will be deemed to be a request for 8 services pursuant to the terms and conditions located at# http://bellsouthpwp.net/w/e/webbww/    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Aug 2005 03:11:04 -07002 From: "Martin Stauber" <stauber@biomed.ee.ethz.ch> Subject: Copying jar on OpenVMS B Message-ID: <1125051064.072541.12050@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>  G In my Java application I included some icons for the menu buttons using D ImageIcon(). The application compiles and runs well in the directory where I usually build the jar.  G However, when I copy this jar to a different directory, the application D can not display the images anymore. I checked the jar and the imagesB are all included in there in the images folder as expected. I thenG thought that I eventually had to copy the original images folder, which G was located on the same level as the original jar, to the new directory F as well. However, this did not resolve the problem. I also checked theE file attributes and they looked pretty much the same for the original  and the copied jar:    File organization:  Sequential Shelved state:      Online  Caching attribute:  WritethroughF File attributes:    Allocation: 108, Extend: 0, Global buffer count: 0$                     No version limitC Record format:      Stream_LF, maximum 0 bytes, longest 32767 bytes 4 Record attributes:  Carriage return carriage control RMS attributes:     None Journaling enabled: None= File protection:    System:RWED, Owner:RWED, Group:RE, World:  Access Cntrl List:  None Client attributes:  None    4 I apprechiate any idea on how to solve this problem.   Martin   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 18:33:59 +0200 6 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk># Subject: Re: Copying jar on OpenVMS < Message-ID: <430f4472$0$75429$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>   Martin Stauber wrote: I > In my Java application I included some icons for the menu buttons using F > ImageIcon(). The application compiles and runs well in the directory  > where I usually build the jar. > I > However, when I copy this jar to a different directory, the application F > can not display the images anymore. I checked the jar and the images= > are all included in there in the images folder as expected.   + How does your code to load them look like ?    Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 10:07:54 +0800  From: prep@prep.synonet.com " Subject: Re: encryption for backup- Message-ID: <874q9d8n7p.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   9 "Guy Peleg" <guy.peleg@remove_this_header@hp.com> writes:   F > With the next version of the O/S BACKUP will support AES encryption.  D That is very good news. It was looking like ENCRYPTION was on a dead end.  B > And last but not least, ENCRYPT is free if your are running V8.2   Makes it even better!!   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 08:00:00 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> 3 Subject: Re: HP to dump itanium - bring back alpha? ( Message-ID: <opsv4emazvzgicya@hyrrokkin>  B On Fri, 26 Aug 2005 04:43:42 +0800, <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote:  ' > "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:  > D >> On 24 Aug 2005 15:23:39 -0700, WhoDat? <whohe@whoever.com> wrote: >>( >>> Anyway, as Mr. Mashey ends his post: >>>  >>>>> E >>> VAX: one of the great computer families, built around a clean ISA D >>> appropriate to the time, but increasingly difficult to implement >>> competitively.
 >>> R.I.P. >>> << >>F >> We have had this discussion elsewhere, and when John wrote that youA >> couldn't put a couple of hundred million transistors on a die.  > D > A billion transistors don't help if they are waiting for memory toB > cycle, and all you can do is flush all your lookahead speculated > instructions.  > G I am sure there are many ways to solve that problem, I can think of a    couple.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 23:52:39 +0800  From: prep@prep.synonet.com 3 Subject: Re: HP to dump itanium - bring back alpha? - Message-ID: <87vf1s7l14.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   , "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com> writes:  * > <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote in message) > news:878xypahrz.fsf@prep.synonet.com... / >> "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com> writes:   D >> > The point of migrating to Itanium was to *not* have to continueA >> > to fund new Alpha platform development.  If you have ongoing E >> > needs for Alpha beyond the last-buy date, contact your sales rep ; >> > - there is a program available to provide that ability < >> > (guaranteed for a cost, or not-guaranteed best effort).  F >> Fred, that line is just pure crap. Like the free lunch, you can payA >> for CPU development, or not pay. Then have to pay another plus  >> their margin.  D > What does this, or the rest of your post have to with the price of > tea in China?   , Nothing. It is about the cost of your CPUs.    You owe the Oracle $69 + 30%   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 16:12:48 GMT ! From: Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com> Y Subject: Migrating from OpenVMS Alpha to OpenVMS Itanium workshop - 20th & 21st September 8 Message-ID: <r3eug19aesmqlv88bhlav4gcimmipva47r@4ax.com>  L Over the course of the past couple of years we have been delivering internalK training on migrating from Alpha to Itanium for OpenVMS specialists. We are P running our workshop again next month & we would like to offer this to customers( as well as internal HP folks & Partners.  K There will be no charge for this training but attendees are responsible for   costs of travel & accommodation.  P If there is anyone who would like to attend please contact me directly with your details.   Cheers   Nigel Barker OpenVMS Ambassador EMEA BCS Competence Centre HP Centre de Competence France 950 Route des Colles 06901 Sophia Antipolis FRANCE Phone: +33 (0)6 15 42 46 94  email: nigel@hp.com   M Migrating from OpenVMS Alpha to OpenVMS Itanium workshop in Sophia Antipolis, # France - 20th & 21st September 2005 D This instructor led workshop through a combination of presentations,O demonstrations plus 'hands-on' provides an introduction to the Integrity Server O systems & specifically the migration of applications running on OpenVMS to this 	 platform. L With the release of OpenVMS 8.2 for Integrity & Alpha platforms earlier thisM year & the release of OpenVMS 8.2-1 (supporting all Integrity platforms) next M month now is an ideal time for OpenVMS specialists to acquire the knowledge & O skills required to move forward to this exciting next chapter in the history of  OpenVMS.J Target audience: HP Presales, HP Technical Consultants, Partners Technical+ Consultants, Customer Technical Consultants B Location: HP, 950 Route des Colles, 06901 Sophia Antipolis, France Agenda:    Day 1:   - Why Itanium for OpenVMS? - OpenVMS evolution   - The Itanium console subsystem / - OpenVMS installation on hp Integrity servers     Day 2:   - OpenVMS roadmaps  $ - Integrity servers running OpenVMS ) - Mixed Alpha and Integrity cluster demo  / - Development environment and migration options   P There is no charge for this OpenVMS training, attendees are responsible only for  costs of travel & accommodation.A Starting time on 1st day is 9:30, ending time on 2nd day is 16:30 J Target audience: HP Presales, HP Technical Consultants, Partners Technical+ Consultants, Customer Technical Consultants    -- Nigel Barker Live from the sunny Cote d'Azur    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 10:34:21 -0400 $ From: "Hein" <hein.nomail@hp.nomail>2 Subject: Re: Optimum cluster size for EVA storage?, Message-ID: <430f286f$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  9 "Jeff Chimene" <jchimene@earthlink.net> wrote in message  < news:aBnPe.1610$Wd7.1246@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net... > Norman Lastovica wrote:   2 >> has nothing at all to do with Rdb specifically.C >> It is an issue with the storage controllers.  The recommendation B >> is to initialize disks with cluster sizes that are multiples ofB >> 4 blocks and to issue sequential I/O operations in multiples of >> 4 blocks. > " > OK. thanks for clearing that up. > G > Is Rdb tuned for these controllers, i.e. does it detect and adapt its 
 > behavior  H What part of  "has nothing at all to do with Rdb" do you not understand? :-) :-)   F Nor RDB itself do not, and should not, care about the unlying storage  attributes. M RDB db manager shoudl of course care from the perspectives of  availability,   capacity, performance,...   G > OTOH, should a DBA simply set storage area page sizes to multiples of $ > four when using these controllers?  M Yes, they should set the VMS CLUSTER SIZE to mutliples of 4 for Vraid5 units   on EVA'sF This is just a first step to ensure that significant IOs start as LBN 2 (Logical Block Numbers) which are a multiple of 4.I The Cluster size setting garantuees that files at least start out evenly. H If the applications then continues on reading in 'even' chunks (and RDB ! will) then all is well (optimal).    Hein.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 12:34:34 -0400 ( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net>2 Subject: Re: Optimum cluster size for EVA storage?= Message-ID: <La2dnXUuU_QA2ZLeRVn-sw@metrocastcablevision.com>    Hein wrote: ; > "Jeff Chimene" <jchimene@earthlink.net> wrote in message  > > news:aBnPe.1610$Wd7.1246@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net... >  >>Norman Lastovica wrote:  >  > 2 >>>has nothing at all to do with Rdb specifically.C >>>It is an issue with the storage controllers.  The recommendation B >>>is to initialize disks with cluster sizes that are multiples ofB >>>4 blocks and to issue sequential I/O operations in multiples of >>>4 blocks. >>" >>OK. thanks for clearing that up. >>G >>Is Rdb tuned for these controllers, i.e. does it detect and adapt its 
 >>behavior >  > J > What part of  "has nothing at all to do with Rdb" do you not understand?	 > :-) :-)   H The question that was asked had nothing to do with the previous answer, > nor vice versa:  the fact that Rdb had nothing to do with the D recommendation to use a cluster size of 4 on an EVA volume does not I imply that Rdb has no interest at all in whatever (other) idiosyncrasies   EVA may exhibit.   > H > Nor RDB itself do not, and should not, care about the unlying storage 
 > attributes.   H Rubbish.  One of the logical implications of that statement is that Rdb H should not even care what the unit of storage access is (512 bytes on a I conventional disk, but not necessarily the same on a virtualised device).   G Competently-designed data-management software (which Rdb certainly is)  G is *always* interested in avoiding whatever idiosyncratic pitfalls the  A underlying storage facilities may exhibit (and of course also in  E exploiting whatever idiosyncratic strengths it may provide) - either  H automatically or at least by providing sufficient tuning parameters for D the user to do so.  The fact that the underlying storage facilities < should also do their best to make more generic (and/or less 4 configurable) software run well does not alter that.   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 17:12:20 GMT + From: Jeff Chimene <jchimene@earthlink.net> 2 Subject: Re: Optimum cluster size for EVA storage?A Message-ID: <U3IPe.2445$z2.1928@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>    Hein wrote: ; > "Jeff Chimene" <jchimene@earthlink.net> wrote in message  > > news:aBnPe.1610$Wd7.1246@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net... >  >>Norman Lastovica wrote:  >  > 2 >>>has nothing at all to do with Rdb specifically.C >>>It is an issue with the storage controllers.  The recommendation B >>>is to initialize disks with cluster sizes that are multiples ofB >>>4 blocks and to issue sequential I/O operations in multiples of >>>4 blocks. >>" >>OK. thanks for clearing that up. >>G >>Is Rdb tuned for these controllers, i.e. does it detect and adapt its 
 >>behavior >  > J > What part of  "has nothing at all to do with Rdb" do you not understand?	 > :-) :-)   G The phrase "recommendation is ... to issue sequential I/O operations in F multiples of 4 blocks." indicates some potential change in the Rdb I/OF engine behavior w/r/t those devices. This phrase couldn't apply to SQLG (hence the application) since it has no control over /how/ a request is D honored. However, it's probably a blanket recommendation made by EVAA engineering, the phrase was quoted from such a statement, and I'm ! parsing Norm's reply too closely.   H > Nor RDB itself do not, and should not, care about the unlying storage 
 > attributes. O > RDB db manager shoudl of course care from the perspectives of  availability,   > capacity, performance,...  > G >>OTOH, should a DBA simply set storage area page sizes to multiples of $ >>four when using these controllers? > O > Yes, they should set the VMS CLUSTER SIZE to mutliples of 4 for Vraid5 units  
 > on EVA'sH > This is just a first step to ensure that significant IOs start as LBN 4 > (Logical Block Numbers) which are a multiple of 4.K > The Cluster size setting garantuees that files at least start out evenly. J > If the applications then continues on reading in 'even' chunks (and RDB # > will) then all is well (optimal).  >  > Hein.    Thanks for the response, jec    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 16:40:17 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Q3CY205 arrived... 0 Message-ID: <00A48DC3.C725CFD2@SendSpamHere.ORG>  C Q3CY2005 SPL, SDL and an Alpha F/W update just arrived.  Before Q3!     --  K VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------    Date: 26 Aug 2005 09:56:43 -0700$ From: "Ed Wilts" <ewilts@ewilts.org> Subject: Re: Q3CY205 arrived... B Message-ID: <1125075402.995797.48120@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>  E > Q3CY2005 SPL, SDL and an Alpha F/W update just arrived.  Before Q3!   8 You sure you're not getting your's by Canada Post?   :-)  + The rest of us had the Q3 condist for ages.   	    .../Ed    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Aug 2005 02:54:36 -0700# From: "Galen" <gltackett@gmail.com> * Subject: Re: Simh. How to triple the speedC Message-ID: <1125050076.887503.183260@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    I wrote:  L > I haven't tried any kind of benchmarks but can say that performance is notO > breathtaking, though subjectively I think it's faster than a speeding 11/780.   G Well, there's one performance test I have run--the boot time benchmark. F Though I don't have actual numbers to provide, my simh Vax boots quiteF a bit faster than a real 11/780. Partly, I suppose, because it doesn't- have to load microcode from an 8" floppy. :-)    Galen    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Aug 2005 07:27:40 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) * Subject: Re: Simh. How to triple the speed3 Message-ID: <wUkaBXiA0xYK@eisner.encompasserve.org>   i In article <1124984738.620009.174900@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "Galen" <gltackett@gmail.com> writes:  > E > Second, a small piece of code to execute on the hosted system. This F > would take care of providing simh the information in A) or B) above.@ > How practical would either of these be on a hosted VMS system?  I    I thought simply patch replacing the 10$: BRB 10$ with a HALT followed C    by a NOP would be a good first step.  It then depends on how the D    simulator reacts to a CPU halt (real VAXen often have settings to    control this.)   F > As you say, Bob, I think simh itself would periodically have to wakeI > itself in order to check if there are interrupts to be generated within H > the hosted system. Otherwise the hosted VMS system clock would freeze,E > and all other kinds of dire things would happen inside VMS as well.   D    Is the VAX CPU clock simulation not dependent on a host timer?  IB    think on a real VAX all paths out of the idle loop start with aG    hardware interrupt (since no other software is using the VAX CPU, it *    can't start with a software interrupt).  F    Perhaps it's too complicated in SIMH to make a portable way to trapA    host initiated events that would map to simulated VAX hardware F    interrupts, but a commercial product like Charon-VAX with a limitedD    set of hosts make do so, and provide the VMS patch as part of the    installation process.   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Aug 2005 07:33:32 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) * Subject: Re: Simh. How to triple the speed3 Message-ID: <BJfw+$TcIqbD@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <430E0BB7.2B0DB87F@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > I > Out of curiosity, what does the VMS iddle loop look like ? Is it just a C > raw "goto myself" efficient infinite loop which relies on process J > management to give it CPU and remove CPU access, or does the loop run inH > a deeper mode and has some sort of check (flag, event flag etc) insideI > the loop to see if it should exit and return control to the rest of the 
 > system ?  F   The VMS idle loop is architecture dependent.  The last time I lookedH   at the VAX listings it was simply the smallest possible infinite loop:              10$:  BRB   10$   F    The Alpha (and I assume IA64) "idle loop" will actually do work forF    you:  maintaining a cache of zero filled pages to speed demand-zeroD    paging (VAXen simply use a MOVCx instruction to clear a page when    such a page fault occurs).   C    When the demand zero cache is full Alpha will actually go into a E    tight loop, the code for which is similar but I never had an Alpha     listings kit to see it.   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Aug 2005 07:35:29 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) * Subject: Re: Simh. How to triple the speed3 Message-ID: <LMPaw54BrsSg@eisner.encompasserve.org>   p In article <1125004973.656414.293540@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com> writes:  H > Actually, there's already a way to create a kernel-code module to hookH > into the idle loop.  CHARON-VAX comes with such a module, for V5.5 andH > V7.3.  It uses an out-of-band (not part of the emulated VAX) mechanismB > to tell the emulator to sleep until a VAX interrupt comes along.  E    So it's already doing what we just discussed.  In what release was C    that added?  I don't recall seeing it in the hobbyist Charon-VAX     (Pico-VAX) days.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 11:00:19 -0400 2 From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com>* Subject: Re: Simh. How to triple the speed- Message-ID: <430EF643.4833.7695EE0@localhost>   * On 26 Aug 2005 at 7:35, Bob Koehler wrote:E > > Actually, there's already a way to create a kernel-code module to F > > hook into the idle loop.  CHARON-VAX comes with such a module, forD > > V5.5 and V7.3.  It uses an out-of-band (not part of the emulatedF > > VAX) mechanism to tell the emulator to sleep until a VAX interrupt > > comes along. > G >    So it's already doing what we just discussed.  In what release was E >    that added?  I don't recall seeing it in the hobbyist Charon-VAX  >    (Pico-VAX) days.   A It's been in CHARON-VAX/XM, /XK, /XL since V3.0.  The "hobbyist"  4 version of CHARON-VAX is CHARON-VAX/Industrial V0.0.  F Installing the kernel patch is optional -- it's marked in the release + notes as not for critical production use...   
 --Stan Quayle  Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------- Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363 3 8572 North Spring Ct., Pickerington, OH  43147  USA 0 stan-at-stanq-dot-com       http://www.stanq.com) "OpenVMS, when downtime is not an option"    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 08:57:32 -0400 ? From: "David Turner, Island Computers US Corp" <david@hpaq.net> & Subject: Re: Upgrading memory in DS20E0 Message-ID: <11gu4am7clkvj7b@corp.supernews.com>   Hey ... thanks a lot Malcolm !  H Remember - you get what you pay for ... this memory on Ebay may not even work.  We offer 1 Yr warranty yll !    DT   --     David B Turner Island Computers US Corp 2700 Gregory St, Suite 180 Savannah GA 31404  Tel: 912 447 6622 X201 Cell: 912 447 6622 X252  Fax: 912 201 0402  Email: dbturner@icusc.com  Web: http://www.islandco.com% ===================================== < All orders are subject to the following terms and conditions. of sale. These should be read before ordering.% http://www.islandco.com/warranty.html   > "Malcolm Dunnett" <nothome@spammers.are.scum> wrote in message& news:eqTqsfw8pNvL@malvm9.mala.bc.ca...E > In article <1124932637.398008.129720@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, B >    "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com> writes: > D > >  Odds are that if you have 2GB then you have 2 banks filled withJ > > 4x256MB but unfortunately there is no way of telling short of shuttingH > > the system down and doing a show memory from the SRM console.  AFAIKF > > there is know way to tell the configuration from a running system. > A >     It depends on the vintage of the machine and the history of F > when the memory was installed, but I wouldn't be at all surprised toJ > find a 2GB DS20 that had four 512MB kits in it and therefore was alreadyE > full ( the large memory kits have traditionally been more expensive F > on a $/MB basis ). I'd seriously recommend opening it up and looking
 before buying 
 > any memory.  > H >    ps If you are going to buy a 1GB kit for it (4 *256) there's one onE > auction on Ebay with a current price of $295. I have no association < > with the seller, I just happened across it while browsing. >    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Aug 2005 11:43:44 -0500' From: jim@info2.uah.edu (Jim McCullars) & Subject: Re: VMS performance measuring( Message-ID: <dengs0$lgd$1@info2.uah.edu>   dooleys@snowy.net.au wrote: ? : What cache policy and cache settings are you using on the hsz  : controllers? : Phil     Cache is writeback mirrored.   Jim    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.476 ************************