1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 06 Dec 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 678       Contents: Re: Hobbyist VAX consoles  Re: Hobbyist VAX consoles D Re: How to convert bound volume set to single drive while preservingD Re: How to convert bound volume set to single drive while preservingF How to convert bound volume set to single drive while preserving linksJ Re: How to convert bound volume set to single drive while preserving linksP Re: How to convert bound volume set to single drive while preserving links linksP Re: How to convert bound volume set to single drive while preserving links links/ Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march today / Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march today / Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march today / Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march today / Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march today / Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march today / Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march today  Re: Installing on OpenVMS Alpha < Memory boards for the KA650 (uVAX-III) and KA655 (uVAX-III+) MEMORY RULES FOR ES40-2  Re: Moving VAX 4000s in a car ? 5 Stupid Question: How to find speed of an Alpha's CPUs 9 Re: Stupid Question: How to find speed of an Alpha's CPUs ) Re: SWCC_AGENT doesn't work with ACS 8.8?  Re: Time problem Re: Time problem TLZ9L documentation? USMilbase acces$ Re: V8.3 teaser 2 Re: values for vcc_ptes and show/mem/cache/full???- Re: Was the LN17 a DEC-branded Xerox printer? - Re: Was the LN17 a DEC-branded Xerox printer? - Re: Was the LN17 a DEC-branded Xerox printer? - Re: Was the LN17 a DEC-branded Xerox printer?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2005 14:27:47 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> " Subject: Re: Hobbyist VAX consoles0 Message-ID: <11p95325v8jus28@corp.supernews.com>   Stanley F. Quayle wrote:D >>need a host to boot from [...] I'm not sure about the DECserver 90 >>series though.   >  > G > The DECserver 90M can have internal flash, but not all do.  On eBay,  & > the flash models go for > $200 more. > B > The other 90-series models need a load host.  You can get a MOP C > download server for Linux in addition to the built-in VMS ones...  >  > --Stan Quayle  > Quayle Consulting Inc. >  > ----------/ > Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363 5 > 8572 North Spring Ct., Pickerington, OH  43147  USA 2 > stan-at-stanq-dot-com       http://www.stanq.com+ > "OpenVMS, when downtime is not an option"  >  >   H My memory is a bit different.  The 90M always has flash, while the 90TL E can have flash memory added, but normally requests a load.  Could be  5 wrong, but that's how the ones I have are configured.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2005 17:19:47 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> " Subject: Re: Hobbyist VAX consoles, Message-ID: <4394BD01.E9A59043@teksavvy.com>    Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER wrote:L > But these babies are still useful and therefore their price hasn't dropped > through the floor.  F This is quite surprising. BTW, doing a google search for decserver didC yield an "ad" for digital networks, which at one point, had "buy it H direct from digital networks". But when I went on their site, I couldn'tL find prices nor ordering pages :-) I wonder how the 90M sells for brand new.    K > The 300 and 700 however are below $100 (w/o flash) and the 200 below $10.     F The 700s are still quite expensive on ebay. My guess is that these areN still being sold "new" by digital networks so are considered "current models".    H Found a really cheap 90L though. But this doesn't do TCPIP, and I am not% sure if it comes with a power supply.   A I have plenty of spare serial ports on my microvax II, so I don't G absolutely need a terminal server. However, if affordable, I certaintly F wouldn't mind it. But would want one that does PPP so that I could use% it to connect my PDAs to my intranet.    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Dec 2005 20:59:27 -0600 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) M Subject: Re: How to convert bound volume set to single drive while preserving 3 Message-ID: <CsuopEu7Ygad@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ` In article <4394FB16.EE1688AD@comcast.net>, David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes: > R Boyd wrote:   I >> If BACKUP won't do this, isn't it a good idea to add the capability to J >> BACKUP, since the VMS Wizard is discouraging people from creating boundH >> volume sets now that significantly larger disks are available? I haveH >> several volume sets I want to convert and I don't want to worry about$ >> messing up multiply linked files.  6 I agree that it would be nice if Backup could do this.  E > I would expect BACKUP/IMAGE to take care of you. If it doesn't, and C > you're in a supported/supportable position, do make a bug report.   E I do not believe image backup between diversely sized volume sets has G ever been supported.  Adding that capability would be much more complex D than the timing notifications recently discussed, and would be proneH to cause defects due to what has to be changed.  That which gets changed gets broken.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 22:22:32 -0500' From: Ken Robinson <kenrbnsn@gmail.com> M Subject: Re: How to convert bound volume set to single drive while preserving G Message-ID: <7dd80f60512051922j4a56978j66c6db3b4af587a7@mail.gmail.com>   L On 5 Dec 2005 20:59:27 -0600, Larry Kilgallen <Kilgallen@spamcop.net> wrote= : L > In article <4394FB16.EE1688AD@comcast.net>, David J Dachtera <djesys.nosp= am@comcast.net> writes:  > 8 > I agree that it would be nice if Backup could do this. > G > > I would expect BACKUP/IMAGE to take care of you. If it doesn't, and E > > you're in a supported/supportable position, do make a bug report.  > G > I do not believe image backup between diversely sized volume sets has I > ever been supported.  Adding that capability would be much more complex F > than the timing notifications recently discussed, and would be proneJ > to cause defects due to what has to be changed.  That which gets changed > gets broken. >   F Using "backup/noint" is the way to restore an image backup to a largerD disk. And now with support for expandable volumes on EVAs, you don'tB even need to go the backup and restore route to move you data to a bigger disk.   Ken    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Dec 2005 16:05:37 -0800  From: "R Boyd" <bob@hax.com>O Subject: How to convert bound volume set to single drive while preserving links B Message-ID: <1133827537.218810.48020@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>  F After reading the documentation and looking at the articles in Ask The9 Wizard I haven't found what I thought would surely exist.   D If I want to convert a bound volume set and preserve links for filesG with multiple directory entries, I want BACKUP /IMAGE to do the job for  me.   B Is there another tool or some unpublished qualifier that will tellB BACKUP to merge all of the files from a volume set into one output: device?  I already know about BACKUP INPUT_SET:[*...]*.*;* OUTPUT_DEVICE:[*...]C The problem with that approach is that any existing multiply linked G files will wind up with duplicate copies.  I'd like to have a sure-fire  way of avoiding this.   F If BACKUP won't do this, isn't it a good idea to add the capability toG BACKUP, since the VMS Wizard is discouraging people from creating bound E volume sets now that significantly larger disks are available? I have E several volume sets I want to convert and I don't want to worry about ! messing up multiply linked files.    Any suggestions?   Robert   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Dec 2005 21:37:59 -0800 $ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>S Subject: Re: How to convert bound volume set to single drive while preserving links C Message-ID: <1133847479.261864.280250@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   
 R Boyd wrote: H > After reading the documentation and looking at the articles in Ask The; > Wizard I haven't found what I thought would surely exist.  > F > If I want to convert a bound volume set and preserve links for filesI > with multiple directory entries, I want BACKUP /IMAGE to do the job for  > me.  > D > Is there another tool or some unpublished qualifier that will tellD > BACKUP to merge all of the files from a volume set into one output< > device?  I already know about BACKUP INPUT_SET:[*...]*.*;* > OUTPUT_DEVICE:[*...]E > The problem with that approach is that any existing multiply linked I > files will wind up with duplicate copies.  I'd like to have a sure-fire  > way of avoiding this.  > H > If BACKUP won't do this, isn't it a good idea to add the capability toI > BACKUP, since the VMS Wizard is discouraging people from creating bound G > volume sets now that significantly larger disks are available? I have G > several volume sets I want to convert and I don't want to worry about # > messing up multiply linked files.  >  > Any suggestions? >  > Robert  A How many multiply linked files do you have? Details please. Maybe  there's another way.  D Anyway, what you're asking is for something that re-numbers the fileF id's, including the same mapping of old-to-new file-id's in all of the the .DIR files!   D The documentation says you can't do this with an /IMAGE backup which6 makes sense because /IMAGE backups preserve file id's.  > I think this isn't in BACKUP because there probably isn't muchB perceived need for it. It seems to me that the whole alias bit wasF added to VMS as part of its evolution w.r.t. VAXclusters. And VMS, andG in particular, BACKUP, works fine with that. Of course it has to so you F can back up your system disk! But apparently not much though was givenF to other uses of aliases. So this appears to be an odd corner of alias use that doesn't work.   [short ramble alert!]   G This reminds me of the [no]backup file attribute. This appears to me to F be an ad hoc measure to make it very easy to avoid the needless savingF of pagefile and swapfile data by making it the default for those filesF on system disks. But it appears to be more general so users may use itG to create scratch areas on disks. But the file headers are still backed D up and restored so a restore results in the same files as before butC with random bits in the data portion of each file! I actually was a $ user at a site that tried just that.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 22:13:40 -0500' From: Ken Robinson <kenrbnsn@gmail.com> Y Subject: Re: How to convert bound volume set to single drive while preserving links links H Message-ID: <7dd80f60512051913l63e4f520v94c1b754f4527a9c@mail.gmail.com>  ? On 12/5/05, David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote:  > R Boyd wrote:  > > J > > After reading the documentation and looking at the articles in Ask The= > > Wizard I haven't found what I thought would surely exist.  > > H > > If I want to convert a bound volume set and preserve links for filesK > > with multiple directory entries, I want BACKUP /IMAGE to do the job for  > > me.  > > F > > Is there another tool or some unpublished qualifier that will tellF > > BACKUP to merge all of the files from a volume set into one output> > > device?  I already know about BACKUP INPUT_SET:[*...]*.*;* > > OUTPUT_DEVICE:[*...]G > > The problem with that approach is that any existing multiply linked K > > files will wind up with duplicate copies.  I'd like to have a sure-fire  > > way of avoiding this.  > > J > > If BACKUP won't do this, isn't it a good idea to add the capability toK > > BACKUP, since the VMS Wizard is discouraging people from creating bound I > > volume sets now that significantly larger disks are available? I have I > > several volume sets I want to convert and I don't want to worry about % > > messing up multiply linked files.  > >  > > Any suggestions? > E > I would expect BACKUP/IMAGE to take care of you. If it doesn't, and C > you're in a supported/supportable position, do make a bug report.  > H > BACKUP/IMAGE might not be the fastest way, but it should be the "leastC > muss, least fuss" and most reliable. You'll have to write it to a F > saveset (disk/tape) and then restore, in all likelihood, to preserveB > ACLs (if any), unless that specific BACKUP issue has been fixed.1 One thing you probably want to do on the restore:   ) Initialize the new disk first and then do   " $backup/noinit <saveset> <newdisk>  H This should prevent backup from trying to recreate the bound volume set.   Ken    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2005 20:44:38 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>Y Subject: Re: How to convert bound volume set to single drive while preserving links links + Message-ID: <4394FB16.EE1688AD@comcast.net>   
 R Boyd wrote:  > H > After reading the documentation and looking at the articles in Ask The; > Wizard I haven't found what I thought would surely exist.  > F > If I want to convert a bound volume set and preserve links for filesI > with multiple directory entries, I want BACKUP /IMAGE to do the job for  > me.  > D > Is there another tool or some unpublished qualifier that will tellD > BACKUP to merge all of the files from a volume set into one output< > device?  I already know about BACKUP INPUT_SET:[*...]*.*;* > OUTPUT_DEVICE:[*...]E > The problem with that approach is that any existing multiply linked I > files will wind up with duplicate copies.  I'd like to have a sure-fire  > way of avoiding this.  > H > If BACKUP won't do this, isn't it a good idea to add the capability toI > BACKUP, since the VMS Wizard is discouraging people from creating bound G > volume sets now that significantly larger disks are available? I have G > several volume sets I want to convert and I don't want to worry about # > messing up multiply linked files.  >  > Any suggestions?  C I would expect BACKUP/IMAGE to take care of you. If it doesn't, and A you're in a supported/supportable position, do make a bug report.   F BACKUP/IMAGE might not be the fastest way, but it should be the "leastA muss, least fuss" and most reliable. You'll have to write it to a D saveset (disk/tape) and then restore, in all likelihood, to preserve@ ACLs (if any), unless that specific BACKUP issue has been fixed.  ? ...and yes, I agree that the newer features like DVE make bound A volume-sets obsolete, but weren't they a neat thing in their day?    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2005 19:52:21 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>8 Subject: Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march today+ Message-ID: <4394EED5.9D6523A3@comcast.net>   
 AEF wrote: >  > David J Dachtera wrote:  > > AEF wrote: > > >  > > > David J Dachtera wrote:  > > > > AEF wrote:	 > > > > >  > > > > > AEF wrote:# > > > > > > David J Dachtera wrote:  > > > > > > > AEF wrote: > > > > > > > > ' > > > > > > > > David J Dachtera wrote:  > > > > > > > > > AEF wrote: > > > > > > [...] V > > > > > > > > > One of the guiding tenets I live by is that "principles are like theR > > > > > > > > > stars: we set our course by them, but rarely do we attain them". > > > > > > > > W > > > > > > > > What I meant was something like the following: Consider illegal aliens. S > > > > > > > > One may have the priniciple that they should be caught by any legal U > > > > > > > > means and shipped out. But what of the consequences? What if an alien S > > > > > > > > reports a rape, but in doing so is found out by the police to be an W > > > > > > > > alien? The alien is deported. Well, word will spread quickly and aliens , > > > > > > > > won't report crimes anymore.
 > > > > > > > P > > > > > > > Let's try looking at that from the other direction: Except for theT > > > > > > > exceptionally stupid ones, do dope-heads call the cops when their dopeK > > > > > > > gets lifted? Why not? Does that stop anyone from buying dope? 
 > > > > > > > 9 > > > > > > > > So the next similar rape (or other crime) I > > > > > > > > goes unreported and this means more rapes and more crime. 
 > > > > > > > P > > > > > > > Depends. I'm sure street gangs don't inform law enforcement when aU > > > > > > > "crime" is commited against one of theirs, yet the results will be less R > > > > > > > than desirable for the perpetrator(s). I'm not promoting gangs, justT > > > > > > > illustrating that even undesirable elements tend to take care of their > > > > > > > own. > > > > > > R > > > > > > So you prefer rapists in the streets to illegal aliens doing jobs that; > > > > > > Americans wouldn't do. That's your prerogative. 	 > > > > > M > > > > > Actually, on 2nd thought, it's worse than that. You'd simply end up N > > > > > with the same number of aliens, minus the first one who reported theQ > > > > > crime, and more could-have-been-reported rapists on the loose. I really 2 > > > > > don't see how that  is a better outcome. > > > >  > > > > No one said it was.  > > > > O > > > > However, immigration enforcement does not stop just because one illegal ) > > > > reports a rape and gets deported.  > > > H > > > I didn't say that it did. But my way you have one more illegal butK > > > fewer rapists. Your way you have the same number of illegals but more  > > > rapists on the loose.  > >  > > Well, yes and no.  > > H > > If Manuel rapes Juanita, Juanita reports it and get discovered as an* > > illegal, does Manuel get away with it? > > I > > On the other hand, if Manuel rapes Juanita, Juanita doesn't report it J > > but tells her own family, what do you think Jose and Carlos will do to > > Manuel next time they meet?  > G > If this were average or typical, you'd have a point. I don't know for C > certain, but I think the majority of rapes are done by strangers.   E I believe you'll find such communities to be more socially interwoven < than ones inhabited by the likes of us: cocooned tech-nerds.  I > Besides, I don't know these people. If Manuel knew he was going to come G > across Jose and Carlos, I don't think he would have done the crime in  > the first place.  D If John Gacy or Jeffery Dahmer thought they would have come into the5 hands of the law, would they have done what they did?    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2005 20:01:55 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>8 Subject: Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march today+ Message-ID: <4394F113.D4B4F858@comcast.net>   
 AEF wrote: >  > David J Dachtera wrote:  > > AEF wrote: > > >  > > > David J Dachtera wrote:  > > > > [snip]O > > > > I prefer law enforcement which tolerates neither rapists near illegals.  > > > G > > > But my way you'd have nearly the same number of aliens, but fewer  > > > rapists on the loose.  > > K > > So, illegals who sap our resources, take our jobs, demand services from 6 > > school systems they do not fund, demand bi-lingualA > > this-that-and-the-other-thing, ... are preferable to rapists?  > D > Yes. Would you rather be out a few bucks, or have your wife raped?  E I'd rather people went through channels and emigrated LEGALLY (what a 
 concept!).  G > BTW, I am against bilinguial education for anyone. It is a farce that G > only handicaps those whom it purports to help. The best time for kids C > to learn a new language is when they are young. The same goes for # > music. That's just the way it is.  > F > I have no objection to enforcing immigration laws. I am just againstB > methods of enforcement that cause more problems than they solve.  G ...in your opinion. I'm sure the law enforcement community is likely to  differ with your approach.   > [snip]G > The crime from illegal drugs stems mostly from the fact that they are 
 > illegal.  D Well, yes and no. Are users in violation for possession? Yes. ...forF consumption? Yes. Are "distributors" in violation for possession? Yes. ...for distrubution? Yes.    Does the crime end there? No.   B As Richard Pryor said in one of his routines, acting as a "junkie"< character, "...the man said I can't have the job because I'mF undependable! Man, I got a $400 a day habit! I ain't missed a payment! Is that dependable?!"   6 > This forces the price way up which attracts the most > unscrupulous people to deal.  F ...not to mention driving people to illegal means to acquire the funds to support their habit.   ( > Also, drug dealers cannot settle theirC > differences in court the way legal businessmen do, and so have to I > resort to violence. If currently illegal, strongly addictive drugs were D > cheap, addicts wouldn't have to mug people to support their habit.  > True. They'd just O.D., die, and be done with it, like as not.   > HaveF > cigaratte pushers ever shot anyone? Have cigarette users ever mugged	 > anyone?    Would you believe...   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2005 20:09:51 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>8 Subject: Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march today+ Message-ID: <4394F2EE.40E078C4@comcast.net>   
 AEF wrote: >  > David J Dachtera wrote:  > > AEF wrote: > > >  > > > AEF wrote: > > > > David J Dachtera wrote:  > > > > > AEF wrote: > > > > > > # > > > > > > David J Dachtera wrote:  > > > > > > > Lurker wrote:  > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> wrote in message L > > > > > > > > news:1132844010.172444.16400@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com... > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > ...  > > > > > > [...]  > > > [...]  > > > >  > > > 5 > > > Sorry to have to correct myself, but here goes:  > > > O > > > > I don't know but your dodging the issue. First of all, the union should  > > >  > > > make that shouldn't. > > > K > > > > get a 33% raise and they certainly shouldn't be threatening to shut O > > > > down the city to get it, ESPECIALLY SINCE THE VERY SAME LAW THAT ALLOWS : > > > > THEM TO HAVE A UNION FORBIDS THEM FROM STRIKING!!! > > > > K > > > > > I keep reading about pensions and such in arrears, which *ARE* an P > > > > > obligation that employers somehow feel entitled to shirk. "Now there's > > > > > fairness for you." > > > > L > > > > You're dodging the issue. In fact, the article said that half of theJ > > > > surplus was going to the pensions. So now it's only half a billion > > > > dollars. > > > L > > > Not only that, the almost half the suprlus, this $450 million is goingG > > > to the workers (their pensions)! They're already getting half the . > > > surplus and somehow that's not enough!!! > > >  > > > Give me a f***ing break.!  > > J > > No, I won't, because that's money that should have been paid into thatG > > fund the past, and - I suspect - doesn't quite fill the entire gap.  > 6 > Well, how does a 33% raise fill the gap? It doesn't.  E Oopsie! Look like you skipped the groove again! We were talking about  pension funding, not wages.   6 > > F*** me and f*** you, give *THEM* a f***ing break! > 0 > They don't deserve a 33% raise for any reason.  > Well, not so fast there! When was their last increase? In whatG percentage? How does their pay structure stack up against other transit  agencies around the country?   > And a temporary surplus C > is certainly no reason to give anyone a raise when there is a far , > larger amount of debt that has to be paid.  H An often forgotten part of the lesson taught by "the goose that lays the? golden eggs" is summed up by Steven Covey this way: "production F capability". By supporting the ability to produce you support on-going, operation, and therefore on-going cash flow.  > Now, if cash management (debt problems) is the issue, well ...   > And even if they did deserveA > a raise, not everyone who deserves a raise gets one. Police and I > firefighters should probably get raises before them anyway. If any city ( > workers are being underpaid it's them.   Opinion.  ? > And why should union workers fare better than the rest of us?   G I thought that's what this whole union vs. non-union discussion was all 	 about ...    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2005 20:18:33 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>8 Subject: Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march today+ Message-ID: <4394F4F9.D9CA876B@comcast.net>   
 AEF wrote: >  > David J Dachtera wrote:  > > AEF wrote: > > >  > > > David J Dachtera wrote:  > > > > AEF wrote:	 > > > > > ! > > > > > David J Dachtera wrote:  > > > > > > Lurker wrote: 
 > > > > > > > = > > > > > > > "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> wrote in message J > > > > > > > news:1132844010.172444.16400@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
 > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > ...  > > > > > [...] U > > > > > > > > 2. Unions are good/bad for workers, getting them a better/worse deal. I > > > > > > > > This includes wages and benefits, and working conditions.  > > > > > > > > O > > > > > > > > One thing I noticed from some is a pure "every man for himself" R > > > > > > > > attitude. They argue that unions should not be allowed to lock out; > > > > > > > > non-union workers willing to work for less. 
 > > > > > > > 4 > > > > > > > Why should they be allowed to do that? > > > > > >  > > > > > > Fairness. 	 > > > > > O > > > > > Well. It could well be that unions have done some good. Obviously not Q > > > > > for our Bill G. and Lurker, but maybe for you and some others. But here J > > > > > in NYC all I see is that they abuse their power. Tell me how the0 > > > > > following article from AMny is "fair":	 > > > > > / > > > > > Transit Union Says It Won't Back Down 	 > > > > > M > > > > > With its contract due to expire in less than three weeks, the union M > > > > > representing transit workers continued to call on the MTA [New York N > > > > > City's Metropolitan Transportation Authority who is in charge of twoO > > > > > RR's, the subway and buses, and NYC bridges] yesterday to use some of : > > > > > its $1 billion budget surplus to raise salaries.	 > > > > > K > > > > > "We have the power, and we're putting the pressure on," said John P > > > > > Mooney, a vice president of the Transport Workers Union Local 100, whoQ > > > > > was among dozens of workers who gathered for a rally yesterday in Union F > > > > > Square. ["We have the power." Now there's fairness for you.] > > > > N > > > > The transit agency has a $1 billion surplus. "Now there's fairness for
 > > > > you."  > > > M > > > It's a fluke. No, the MTA aren't angels. But I'm not aware of any gov't $ > > > or agency surplus living long. > > # > > Gee - I wonder why THAT is? :-)  > > - > > > The MTA and New York state are BILLIONS G > > > in debt. So it's not really a surplus. And why should the transit M > > > workers get a 33% raise from that anyway? If they STOLE the $1 billion,  > > > that would be unfair.  > > >  > > > > > [snip]M > > > > > OK, yes, there is a big surplus due to real estate taxes. But it is H > > > > > temporary and the MTA has a LOT of debt to pay down: billions. > > > > + > > > > Why have those debts not been paid?  > > > . > > > I don't know but your dodging the issue. > > 1 > > Nope. Fiscal responsibility *IS* _THE_ issue!  > G > So something good happens to help the situation and instead of paying 9 > down the debts you think the workers should get it all.    Never said that.   > The gov't F > either by being clever, or more likely by blind luck, has managed toI > get more money for the MTA to pay its debts. And you want them to throw # > that away to overpay the workers.    Never said that, either.   > How is THAT responsible? > H > At what point do the workers have enough and future "surpluses" can beF > use to pay down the debt? Is 100K/yr enough for a bus driver? $200K?  @ Show me an hourly person making that pay range on straight time.  1 > Would you find a million a year reasonable pay?    Ask a CEO the same question.   > > $ > > > First of all, the union shouldI > > > get a 33% raise and they certainly shouldn't be threatening to shut M > > > down the city to get it, ESPECIALLY SINCE THE VERY SAME LAW THAT ALLOWS 8 > > > THEM TO HAVE A UNION FORBIDS THEM FROM STRIKING!!! > > > I > > > > I keep reading about pensions and such in arrears, which *ARE* an N > > > > obligation that employers somehow feel entitled to shirk. "Now there's > > > > fairness for you." > > >  > > > You're dodging the issue.  > > 	 > > Nope.  > H > They are not shirking the pension issue. In fact, the MTA said it will4 > use almost half of the "surplus" for the pensions.  C Yet, the question still stands: Does that cover the entirety of the ! "deferred pension fund deposits"?    > Giving the workersD > 33% increase will make all the debts even worse, meaning even moreF > wasted money to pay down interest, which will cause a calamity laterD > on. Sooner or later, the riders and taxpayers are going to have toG > cough up additional money because of the additional interest on debt. - > The workers are trying to screw the public.   C The workers are trying to get a fair shake. It's the transit agency 0 management that's trying to screw the citizenry.  C > Actually, by giving a 33% raise, THAT is shirking the issue. That + > doesn't help their pension find one iota.    Again, the question stands.   0 > > > In fact, the article said that half of theH > > > surplus was going to the pensions. So now it's only half a billion > > > dollars. > > >  > > > >  > > > > > New YorkQ > > > > > state has one of the highest debt/capitas in the U.S. So please tell me Q > > > > > how a demand for a net 33% increase in wages and threatening an illegal O > > > > > strike is "fair". How is it fair for 30,000 workers to hold a city of  > > > > > millions hostage?  > > > > J > > > > Non sequitur. No government or other agency is required to provideL > > > > transit, public or otherwise. Use of mass transit is a choice, not a > > > > requirement. > > > 4 > > > What? this justifies holding the city hostage? > > E > > Is cutting through a phone line with a back-hoe "holding the city A > > hostage"? (People survived for centuries without telephones.)  > > G > > Is breaking a gas or water main "holding the city hostage"? (People ? > > survived for centuries without piped gas or running water.)  > > E > > Electrical blackouts? (People survived for centuries without it.)  > @ > I'll tell you what. Let's have you refrain from using any cityE > utilities for the rest of your life. Hey, people survived centuries C > without them! Let's see how you fair. And that includes no VMS!!!  > H > Hello... we have become dependent on them. Hospitals need them to saveI > lives. Yes, people lived without them, but that's not a valid argument.  > H > > You're pinning your fortunes on elements you cannot control. Workers> > > take job actions, utilities get cut off, and life goes on. > > $ > > Life is challenge. Deal with it. > 3 > So because of that it's okay for workers to abuse    ...correction: assert...   > their union power?  H If that's what it takes to ensure that employers are negotiating in good? faith, that's why the system is the way it is; Say, "leverage".  ("leverage" != "debt")  " > Are you just pushing my buttons?  D I'm trying to get you past your prejudices so you'll turn your brain> back on think it though from the other person's point of view.  H > Fine. I'll do whatever I can in my power to stop this nonsense and letG > THEM deal with it. Hey, you justify their actions. Why don't you tell 4 > THEM that life is a challenge and to deal with it?  C They *ARE* dealing with it!!! That's what negotiation is all about!    > Everyone should giveG > their paychecks to union members! Hurray! Let's make them filthy rich  > and the rest of us dirt poor.   C Geez! Now you're starting to sound like the GOP talking about their  cronies!   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Dec 2005 18:18:44 -0800 $ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>8 Subject: Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march todayC Message-ID: <1133835524.457146.120860@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    David J Dachtera wrote:  > AEF wrote: > >  > > David J Dachtera wrote:  > > > AEF wrote: > > > >  > > > > David J Dachtera wrote:  > > > > > [snip]Q > > > > > I prefer law enforcement which tolerates neither rapists near illegals.  > > > > I > > > > But my way you'd have nearly the same number of aliens, but fewer  > > > > rapists on the loose.  > > > M > > > So, illegals who sap our resources, take our jobs, demand services from 8 > > > school systems they do not fund, demand bi-lingualC > > > this-that-and-the-other-thing, ... are preferable to rapists?  > > F > > Yes. Would you rather be out a few bucks, or have your wife raped? > G > I'd rather people went through channels and emigrated LEGALLY (what a  > concept!).  G Your doing a bait and switch here. I addressed the question if illegals E who report crimes should be deported. You are addressing the question E of whether illegals should be hunted down and deported. Two different G questions. I am against counterproductive means of enforcement, not all  means of enforcement.    > I > > BTW, I am against bilinguial education for anyone. It is a farce that I > > only handicaps those whom it purports to help. The best time for kids E > > to learn a new language is when they are young. The same goes for % > > music. That's just the way it is.  > > H > > I have no objection to enforcing immigration laws. I am just againstD > > methods of enforcement that cause more problems than they solve. > I > ...in your opinion. I'm sure the law enforcement community is likely to  > differ with your approach.  @ So? Some law enforcement types want to deprive us of some of our rights. That makes it okay?    > 
 > > [snip]I > > The crime from illegal drugs stems mostly from the fact that they are  > > illegal. > F > Well, yes and no. Are users in violation for possession? Yes. ...forH > consumption? Yes. Are "distributors" in violation for possession? Yes. > ...for distrubution? Yes.  >  > Does the crime end there? No.  > D > As Richard Pryor said in one of his routines, acting as a "junkie"> > character, "...the man said I can't have the job because I'mH > undependable! Man, I got a $400 a day habit! I ain't missed a payment! > Is that dependable?!"   G It's a crime only because laws were passed. This is circular reasoning.    > 8 > > This forces the price way up which attracts the most  > > unscrupulous people to deal. > H > ...not to mention driving people to illegal means to acquire the funds > to support their habit.    which supports my case   > * > > Also, drug dealers cannot settle theirE > > differences in court the way legal businessmen do, and so have to K > > resort to violence. If currently illegal, strongly addictive drugs were F > > cheap, addicts wouldn't have to mug people to support their habit. > @ > True. They'd just O.D., die, and be done with it, like as not.  G Really? Millions of Americans have smoked marijuana and not O.D.-ed and B not died. And if it were legalized or decriminalized that wouldn'tB change. Many have done other illegal drugs and not OD-ed. With theG current situation, many die in turf wars and battles with police. These ! are typically dealers, not users.    >  > > HaveH > > cigaratte pushers ever shot anyone? Have cigarette users ever mugged > > anyone?  >  > Would you believe...   ???    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Dec 2005 18:25:51 -0800 $ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>8 Subject: Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march todayC Message-ID: <1133835951.448601.215450@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    David J Dachtera wrote:  > AEF wrote: > >  > > David J Dachtera wrote:  > > > AEF wrote: > > > >  > > > > AEF wrote:! > > > > > David J Dachtera wrote:  > > > > > > AEF wrote:
 > > > > > > > % > > > > > > > David J Dachtera wrote:  > > > > > > > > Lurker wrote:  > > > > > > > > > A > > > > > > > > > "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> wrote in message N > > > > > > > > > news:1132844010.172444.16400@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com... > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > ...  > > > > > > > [...] 
 > > > > [...] 	 > > > > >  > > > > 7 > > > > Sorry to have to correct myself, but here goes:  > > > > Q > > > > > I don't know but your dodging the issue. First of all, the union should  > > > >  > > > > make that shouldn't. > > > > M > > > > > get a 33% raise and they certainly shouldn't be threatening to shut Q > > > > > down the city to get it, ESPECIALLY SINCE THE VERY SAME LAW THAT ALLOWS < > > > > > THEM TO HAVE A UNION FORBIDS THEM FROM STRIKING!!!	 > > > > > M > > > > > > I keep reading about pensions and such in arrears, which *ARE* an R > > > > > > obligation that employers somehow feel entitled to shirk. "Now there's > > > > > > fairness for you."	 > > > > > N > > > > > You're dodging the issue. In fact, the article said that half of theL > > > > > surplus was going to the pensions. So now it's only half a billion > > > > > dollars. > > > > N > > > > Not only that, the almost half the suprlus, this $450 million is goingI > > > > to the workers (their pensions)! They're already getting half the 0 > > > > surplus and somehow that's not enough!!! > > > > ! > > > > Give me a f***ing break.!  > > > L > > > No, I won't, because that's money that should have been paid into thatI > > > fund the past, and - I suspect - doesn't quite fill the entire gap.  > > 8 > > Well, how does a 33% raise fill the gap? It doesn't. > G > Oopsie! Look like you skipped the groove again! We were talking about  > pension funding, not wages.   E Exactly. And a 33% raise doesn't help fill the pension gap. The union D is asking for 33% raise. If they got that it would make it HARDER to> fill the "pension gap", meaning higher fares and higher taxes.   > 8 > > > F*** me and f*** you, give *THEM* a f***ing break! > > 2 > > They don't deserve a 33% raise for any reason. > @ > Well, not so fast there! When was their last increase? In whatI > percentage? How does their pay structure stack up against other transit  > agencies around the country?  F I think Dec. 2002. I think it was several percent. I don't remember. I2 don't know, but it's not like they're paid poorly.   >  > > And a temporary surplus E > > is certainly no reason to give anyone a raise when there is a far . > > larger amount of debt that has to be paid. > J > An often forgotten part of the lesson taught by "the goose that lays theA > golden eggs" is summed up by Steven Covey this way: "production H > capability". By supporting the ability to produce you support on-going. > operation, and therefore on-going cash flow. > @ > Now, if cash management (debt problems) is the issue, well ...  D So your saying that bad cash management is just cause for outlandishG raise demands which only makes said cash management even worse? I don't  follow you here.   >   > > And even if they did deserveC > > a raise, not everyone who deserves a raise gets one. Police and K > > firefighters should probably get raises before them anyway. If any city * > > workers are being underpaid it's them. > 
 > Opinion. > A > > And why should union workers fare better than the rest of us?  > I > I thought that's what this whole union vs. non-union discussion was all  > about ...   G Well, being as not everyone can be in a union, it seems unfair to favor F those who are "lucky" enough to be. And it seems to me to be even moreE unfare for those "lucky" union members to make things *worse* for the B rest of us. Getting a fair wage is one thing. A 33% raise is quite another.   >    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Dec 2005 19:01:10 -0800 $ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>8 Subject: Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march todayC Message-ID: <1133838070.504072.272330@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    David J Dachtera wrote:  > AEF wrote: > >  > > David J Dachtera wrote:  > > > AEF wrote: > > > >  > > > > David J Dachtera wrote:  > > > > > AEF wrote: > > > > > > # > > > > > > David J Dachtera wrote:  > > > > > > > Lurker wrote:  > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> wrote in message L > > > > > > > > news:1132844010.172444.16400@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com... > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > ...  > > > > > > [...] W > > > > > > > > > 2. Unions are good/bad for workers, getting them a better/worse deal. K > > > > > > > > > This includes wages and benefits, and working conditions.  > > > > > > > > > Q > > > > > > > > > One thing I noticed from some is a pure "every man for himself" T > > > > > > > > > attitude. They argue that unions should not be allowed to lock out= > > > > > > > > > non-union workers willing to work for less.  > > > > > > > > 6 > > > > > > > > Why should they be allowed to do that?
 > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > Fairness.  > > > > > > Q > > > > > > Well. It could well be that unions have done some good. Obviously not S > > > > > > for our Bill G. and Lurker, but maybe for you and some others. But here L > > > > > > in NYC all I see is that they abuse their power. Tell me how the2 > > > > > > following article from AMny is "fair": > > > > > > 1 > > > > > > Transit Union Says It Won't Back Down  > > > > > > O > > > > > > With its contract due to expire in less than three weeks, the union O > > > > > > representing transit workers continued to call on the MTA [New York P > > > > > > City's Metropolitan Transportation Authority who is in charge of twoQ > > > > > > RR's, the subway and buses, and NYC bridges] yesterday to use some of < > > > > > > its $1 billion budget surplus to raise salaries. > > > > > > M > > > > > > "We have the power, and we're putting the pressure on," said John R > > > > > > Mooney, a vice president of the Transport Workers Union Local 100, whoS > > > > > > was among dozens of workers who gathered for a rally yesterday in Union H > > > > > > Square. ["We have the power." Now there's fairness for you.]	 > > > > > P > > > > > The transit agency has a $1 billion surplus. "Now there's fairness for > > > > > you."  > > > > O > > > > It's a fluke. No, the MTA aren't angels. But I'm not aware of any gov't & > > > > or agency surplus living long. > > > % > > > Gee - I wonder why THAT is? :-)  > > > / > > > > The MTA and New York state are BILLIONS I > > > > in debt. So it's not really a surplus. And why should the transit O > > > > workers get a 33% raise from that anyway? If they STOLE the $1 billion,  > > > > that would be unfair.  > > > >  > > > > > > [snip]O > > > > > > OK, yes, there is a big surplus due to real estate taxes. But it is J > > > > > > temporary and the MTA has a LOT of debt to pay down: billions.	 > > > > > - > > > > > Why have those debts not been paid?  > > > > 0 > > > > I don't know but your dodging the issue. > > > 3 > > > Nope. Fiscal responsibility *IS* _THE_ issue!  > > I > > So something good happens to help the situation and instead of paying ; > > down the debts you think the workers should get it all.  >  > Never said that.  G Not explicitly or exactly but close enough. You thing the raise is fair G and you thing the $450 million towards the pensions is not enough. That G may not be "all" but it's a lot. And it's really worse than all because E the surplus will dry up (half of it is already going to the pensions) F and when the pension is gone the 33% raise will still be in effect. In( fact, it will be phased in over 3 years.     > 
 > > The gov't H > > either by being clever, or more likely by blind luck, has managed toK > > get more money for the MTA to pay its debts. And you want them to throw % > > that away to overpay the workers.  >  > Never said that, either.  D You want them to give the raise which means that much more debt goesF unpaid. You also seem to think that no salary is too high, so yes, youF didn't say to overpay the workers, but it looks like overpaying to me!   >  > > How is THAT responsible? > > J > > At what point do the workers have enough and future "surpluses" can beH > > use to pay down the debt? Is 100K/yr enough for a bus driver? $200K? > B > Show me an hourly person making that pay range on straight time. > 3 > > Would you find a million a year reasonable pay?  >  > Ask a CEO the same question.  A Two wrongs don't make a right. I don't think anyone at the MTA is > getting that much. Six figures, yes. Seven, I really doubt it.   >  > > > & > > > > First of all, the union shouldK > > > > get a 33% raise and they certainly shouldn't be threatening to shut O > > > > down the city to get it, ESPECIALLY SINCE THE VERY SAME LAW THAT ALLOWS : > > > > THEM TO HAVE A UNION FORBIDS THEM FROM STRIKING!!! > > > > K > > > > > I keep reading about pensions and such in arrears, which *ARE* an P > > > > > obligation that employers somehow feel entitled to shirk. "Now there's > > > > > fairness for you." > > > > ! > > > > You're dodging the issue.  > > >  > > > Nope.  > > J > > They are not shirking the pension issue. In fact, the MTA said it will6 > > use almost half of the "surplus" for the pensions. > E > Yet, the question still stands: Does that cover the entirety of the # > "deferred pension fund deposits"?   ? Fine. Let's say it doesn't. How does a 33% raise help cover the  pensions? Hmmmmm?    >  > > Giving the workersF > > 33% increase will make all the debts even worse, meaning even moreH > > wasted money to pay down interest, which will cause a calamity laterF > > on. Sooner or later, the riders and taxpayers are going to have toI > > cough up additional money because of the additional interest on debt. / > > The workers are trying to screw the public.  > E > The workers are trying to get a fair shake. It's the transit agency 2 > management that's trying to screw the citizenry.  B Wage-wise and pension-wise I think they are already getting a fair shake.  E > > Actually, by giving a 33% raise, THAT is shirking the issue. That - > > doesn't help their pension find one iota.    > Again, the question stands.   E But it's THE UNION who is asking for the 33% raise so it is THE UNION G that is "shirking the issue". Trust me, the MTA does not want to give a  33% raise to any worker.    2 > > > > In fact, the article said that half of theJ > > > > surplus was going to the pensions. So now it's only half a billion > > > > dollars. > > > > 	 > > > > >  > > > > > > New YorkS > > > > > > state has one of the highest debt/capitas in the U.S. So please tell me S > > > > > > how a demand for a net 33% increase in wages and threatening an illegal Q > > > > > > strike is "fair". How is it fair for 30,000 workers to hold a city of  > > > > > > millions hostage? 	 > > > > > L > > > > > Non sequitur. No government or other agency is required to provideN > > > > > transit, public or otherwise. Use of mass transit is a choice, not a > > > > > requirement. > > > > 6 > > > > What? this justifies holding the city hostage? > > > G > > > Is cutting through a phone line with a back-hoe "holding the city C > > > hostage"? (People survived for centuries without telephones.)  > > > I > > > Is breaking a gas or water main "holding the city hostage"? (People A > > > survived for centuries without piped gas or running water.)  > > > G > > > Electrical blackouts? (People survived for centuries without it.)  > > B > > I'll tell you what. Let's have you refrain from using any cityG > > utilities for the rest of your life. Hey, people survived centuries E > > without them! Let's see how you fair. And that includes no VMS!!!  > > J > > Hello... we have become dependent on them. Hospitals need them to saveK > > lives. Yes, people lived without them, but that's not a valid argument.  > > J > > > You're pinning your fortunes on elements you cannot control. Workers@ > > > take job actions, utilities get cut off, and life goes on. > > > & > > > Life is challenge. Deal with it. > > 5 > > So because of that it's okay for workers to abuse  >  > ...correction: assert... >  > > their union power? > J > If that's what it takes to ensure that employers are negotiating in goodA > faith, that's why the system is the way it is; Say, "leverage".  > ("leverage" != "debt")  + Then it wouldn't be abuse, but it is abuse.    > $ > > Are you just pushing my buttons? > F > I'm trying to get you past your prejudices so you'll turn your brain@ > back on think it though from the other person's point of view.  F OK. Hey, I'd like a 33% raise too! Maybe I should threaten to sabotage% public utilities and demand my raise!    > J > > Fine. I'll do whatever I can in my power to stop this nonsense and letI > > THEM deal with it. Hey, you justify their actions. Why don't you tell 6 > > THEM that life is a challenge and to deal with it? > E > They *ARE* dealing with it!!! That's what negotiation is all about!   6 So threatening to do an illegal strike is negotiating?   >  > > Everyone should giveI > > their paychecks to union members! Hurray! Let's make them filthy rich ! > > and the rest of us dirt poor.  > E > Geez! Now you're starting to sound like the GOP talking about their 
 > cronies!   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2005 20:23:55 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>( Subject: Re: Installing on OpenVMS Alpha+ Message-ID: <4394F63B.FF2B18FE@comcast.net>    rcyoung wrote: > F > Oracle "recommended" default quotas are ALWAYS barely adequate. Page@ > file quota & enqueue limits and particularly good "targets" toI > increase. There can easily be others. There are some DCL files floating D > around that are good for monitoring individual quota usge that you5 > might find useful (watch_quotas.com comes to mind).   G Yes. I have my own version of that. I call it PRCQUOTA.COM. Goes into a F bit more depth, like comparing the PGFLQUOTA to PAGFILCNT, calculatingG the current working set size versus WSQUOTA and WSEXTENT (to illustrate F borrowing, etc.), reports the process creation time (LOGINTIM) and vor> V7.3-2 and later reports the process duration by using the newF F$DELTA_TIME() lexical (Thanx, Guy!) and the image being run (if any).  @ Oh, yeah: it also uses F$CONTEXT() to allow output for processesG selected by process name segment and other criteria, processes on other  cluster nodes, ...   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Dec 2005 11:57:32 -0800 $ From: "Bob Armstrong" <bob@jfcl.com>E Subject: Memory boards for the KA650 (uVAX-III) and KA655 (uVAX-III+) B Message-ID: <1133812652.742141.60140@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>  B   Do the KA655 (uVAX-III+) and KA650 (uVAX-III) use the same MS650D (M7622) memory boards, or is there actually such a thing as a MS655?F If there is, does anybody know the Mxxxx module number for the latter?   Thanks, 
 Bob Armstrong    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2005 15:20:03 -0600 + From: brandon@dalsemi.com (BRANDON, JOHN M)   Subject: MEMORY RULES FOR ES40-21 Message-ID: <05120515200392@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>   M In an ES40 model 2 there are specific rules regarding the installation of the ; memory modules.  I have included those rules for reference:   K * You can install up to 16 DIMMs or up to 32 DIMMs, depending on the system    model you purchased.  L * A n options consists of a set of 4 DIMMs.  You must install all 4 DIMMs.    P * Fill sets in numerical order. Populate all 4 slots in Set 0, and then populate   Set 1, and so on.   J * An "array" is one set for systems that support 16 DIMMs and two sets for    systems that support 32 DIMMs.  M * DIMMs in an array must be the same size and type.  For example, suppose you M   populated Sets 0, 1, 2, and 3.  When you populated Set 4, the DIMMs must be M   the same size and type as those installed in Set 0.  DIMMs must be the same M   size and type as those installed Set 0.  Similarity Set 5 must be populated P   with the same size and type of DIMMs as are in Set 1, and son on, as indicated.   in the following table. (table not included)    M In our ES40 we seem to have violated the "Fill sets in numerical order.".  We 9 filled numerical sets 0, 1, 2, 4, and 5 - skipping set 3.   I Has anyone did the same and what was the outcome?  The system seems to be 3 running fine and all the installed memory is there.        John "REBOOT" Brandon  VMS Systems Administrator * firstname.lastname.spam.me.not@dalsemi.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2005 17:11:49 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> ( Subject: Re: Moving VAX 4000s in a car ?, Message-ID: <4394BB24.E73B3049@teksavvy.com>   Bob Koehler wrote:G >    I thought a 2CV was based on the translation of "two horsepower"*. $ >    Surely that can move one horse? > ; > * but I always thought it really refered to two cylinders    CV = Cheveaux Vapeur  G Horse Steam , probably dating back to steam engines. So a steam engines 8 capable of pulling a cart originally pulled by 2 horses.  F Had DEC really pushed for its standard of performance, perhaps WintelsA would be measured today in VUPs instead of MHZ and there would be E another very common expression that most folks wouldn't know where it 
 came from.   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Dec 2005 21:14:11 -0800 ' From: "Schnootling" <chuckm@dis.wa.gov> > Subject: Stupid Question: How to find speed of an Alpha's CPUsC Message-ID: <1133846051.719434.160440@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Hi,   F I don't have VMS installed yet, so I'm dealing with the triple-chevronD prompt. I think I have a dual-466 MHz box. But, since my Windows boxE went casters-up and took my eBay acquisition e-mails with it, I'm not " sure that what I think is correct.  C What is the command to determine the speed of an Alpha 4100's CPU ?   A Chuck  (home e-mail address is "chuckmoore55 at hotmail dot com")    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2005 23:39:34 -0600 % From: Dan Foster <usenet@evilphb.org> B Subject: Re: Stupid Question: How to find speed of an Alpha's CPUs5 Message-ID: <slrndpa90n.2rn.usenet@zappy.catbert.org>   j In article <1133846051.719434.160440@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, Schnootling <chuckm@dis.wa.gov> wrote: > H > I don't have VMS installed yet, so I'm dealing with the triple-chevronF > prompt. I think I have a dual-466 MHz box. But, since my Windows boxG > went casters-up and took my eBay acquisition e-mails with it, I'm not $ > sure that what I think is correct. > E > What is the command to determine the speed of an Alpha 4100's CPU ?   $ Try 'show config' at the >>> prompt.   My PWS 600au shows:    >>>show config   Firmware4 SRM Console:    V7.2-1          Mar  6 2000 14:47:02 ARC Console:    5.70E PALcode:        OpenVMS PALcode V1.20-16, Tru64 UNIX PALcode V1.22-18  SROM Version:   v5.90   	 Processor 9 DECchip (tm) 21164A-2   Pass   600 MHz  96 KBytes SCache   2 MB BCache  PYXIS ASIC Pass 257  [...among other information...]    -Dan   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2005 20:36:30 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>2 Subject: Re: SWCC_AGENT doesn't work with ACS 8.8?+ Message-ID: <4394F92E.65D4C1B7@comcast.net>    Malcolm Dunnett wrote: > 1 >  I'm running Storageworks Command Console Agent / > version 2.3.2 on VMS 8.2 talking to an HSG80.  > 3 >  It appears to have quit working since I upgraded 3 > the firmware on the HSG80 from 8.6F to 8.8F. When 3 > the agent starts now I get errors in the log file  > like:  >  > ---------------------  > 5 > Unexpected line Host Connection Table is NOT locked  > , > Unexpected line Smart Error Eject Disabled > = > Unexpected Extended Information Unit Default access enabled  > 8 > Unexpected Extended Information SCSI Fairness Disabled > 0 > Unexpected Extended Information Vendor ID: DEC > 5 > Unexpected line Host Connection Table is NOT locked  > , > Unexpected line Smart Error Eject Disabled > = > Unexpected Extended Information Unit Default access enabled  > 8 > Unexpected Extended Information SCSI Fairness Disabled > 0 > Unexpected Extended Information Vendor ID: DEC > ^ > Dec  2 13:03:26 2005  WARNING:  - A subsystem change has been detected: malor2 oracle OVRL=1 >  (SP_MONITOR: MonitorSubsys) > C > Dec  2 13:03:26 2005  WARNING:  - malor2 oracle 10220000000 HSG80  >  (SP_MONITOR: MonitorSubsys) >  > -------------- > 9 >  The command console client doesn't appear able to talk . > to the agent ( the folder icon stays gray ). > G >  I presume from the error messages that the agent is getting confused F > because the output from the array is different in the newer version.E > Is there an updated client available somewhere or am I out of luck?   F Well, I haven't looked to see if we have the same SWCC issue. I detestH SWCC, but my partner finds it useful. Then again, HSZTERM never has been
 supported.  H We're running V88F-2, and we're seeing strangeness we can't account for,E like multiple HSG pairs going flaky unpredictably: the serial console C stops responding, and one or more served devices ends up showing in C MntVerifyTimeout until you restart the HSGs from their "//" button.   F We've also been having issues where a disk in an EMA array babbling on= the SCSI bus drives the HSG pair crazy, with similar outcome.    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 17:55:26 -0500* From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com> Subject: Re: Time problem , Message-ID: <4394c55f$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  F High interrupt time is not going to lose the time you are seeing - but	 something L bad on the bus can and will.  For instance, a device that is doing excessiveK retries.  Try removing one of the SCSI controllers at a time.  We have seen L this type of thing with some graphics adapters that misbehaved in the past -( which is why I was asking about devices.    , "Kevin Handy" <kth@srv.net> wrote in message2 news:1133802802_68385@spool6-east.superfeed.net... > FredK wrote:4 > > "Joe Bloggs" <JBloggs@acme.com> wrote in message6 > > news:k6o0p1dd9ifbgp77vk2risk6lkreoletom@4ax.com... > > H > >>On Thu, 01 Dec 2005 14:19:42 -0700, Kevin Handy <kth@srv.net> wrote: > >> > >>C > >>>I just set the time correctly, and after 1/2 hour it is off by C > >>>5 minutes. Doing a bare "set time" seems to reset the clock to  > >>>the correct time. > >> > > K > > What type of hardware is this, and what type of options are on the bus.  > >  > > % > DS10, with two SCSI adapters, iirc. ? > One for the internal disks/tape, one for external disks/tape. > > I think that the external disks and tape (TZ30) are all gone: > now. They were needed for the original conversion from a4 > MicroVax 3100, so one SCSI is probably now unused. > 9 > MON MODES does not show any large number of interrupts, 6 > just 100% idle time, so I don't think the extra SCSI > controller is going nuts.  > H > ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet
 News==----J > http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+
 NewsgroupsG > ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption  =----    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2005 20:30:23 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> Subject: Re: Time problem + Message-ID: <4394F7BE.B2E8FA1A@comcast.net>    Kevin Handy wrote: > ( > A customer has a DS10 running VMS 7.2. > @ > I set the date (i.e. "set time=30-nov-2005:13:12", "set time")( > and everything is fine for the moment. > @ > I come back a day or so later, and the date/time is incorrect.3 > I set the time yesterday, today it is reported as # > 30-NOV-2005 14:30:55 (at 1:16PM).  > @ > I just set the time correctly, and after 1/2 hour it is off by@ > 5 minutes. Doing a bare "set time" seems to reset the clock to > the correct time.  > < > I added a que entry to "set time" every hour to try to get9 > somewhat correct times, but this doesn't make me happy.  > = > Any ideas as to what may be happening? Why would the system  > clock be running so slow?  > < > I haven't changed any parameters recently, and there isn't< > much running on the system (a couple low volume accounting. > entry programs at most, 99% idle time, etc.) > 5 > MON SYS shows (usually, but sometimes shows minimal  > usage) > 	 > CPU = 0  > page fault rate = 0  > direct io rate = 0 > free list = 25910  > buffered io = 0   E Dunno if it might apply, but older versions of Multinet have an issue F with certain kernel code that can run at an IPL higher than the clock.D That will cause the CPU to miss clock ticks, but doesn't explain the clock running fast.   H It can also cause unexpected issues. We had a CPU in a GS1280 lock up inH a loop so tight that not only did it trigger a cascade-cluster-crash, itH took a power cycle to break the loop (INIT at the console didn't do it).   Just wanted to mention it...   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Dec 2005 15:23:46 -0800 , From: "rcyoung" <rcyoung@aliconsultants.com> Subject: TLZ9L documentation? C Message-ID: <1133825026.947520.274350@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   E Does anyone have (or know the link to) documentation on the TLZ9L DAT ? autoloader tape unit? A description of the dip switch settings?    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Dec 2005 13:10:24 -0800  From: I26485478@aol.com  Subject: USMilbase acces$ B Message-ID: <1133817024.402189.70780@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>  H USMilids.  personal, vehicle, all type.  write me the emails.  no anons.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 02:59:47 GMT   From: John Santos <john@egh.com> Subject: Re: V8.3 teaser* Message-ID: <D87lf.1314$Oq3.1128@trnddc05>   JF Mezei wrote:  > H Vlems wrote: > J >>It's perfectly readable, but I guess the real question is how often have# >>system managers needed to compute 9 >>how long that d***d backup process is going to take....  >  >  > I > Thing is that whenever I do something serious with backup, it is always J > from a command procedure that is run at batch so I have log files and soB > it doesn't tie up a terminal forever. And since it may be makingB > requests for tapes etc, having a free terminal to reply to those > requests is handy :-)   A Yeah, a major exception being when you are sitting at the console ? with lots of irate users breathing down your neck as you try to > restore the system disk while booted from the CD-ROM, or otherE random crisis restore.  (Since it was a crisis, it was unpredictable, @ so you don't *have* a procedure that does exactly what you want.  C Routine backups (and retrievals, if you are using your backup tapes B as a poor-man's archive system), which are all scripted and run asD batch jobs in the background, wouldn't benefit from this as there isD not keyboard to type ctrl/T on, and anyway you already know how long
 they take.  E The reason I don't script and submit as batches emergency backups and C restores is I'm never exactly sure what I need to do until I do it, = and you get much faster feed-back about mistakes if you do it B interactively.  (If it is something you need to do more than once,@ you can always cut-and-paste from the recall buffer to create anG appropriate command procedure once you've got the problem nailed down.)    > G > The big question. If Backup is to calculate estimated time remaining, E > Guy should be aware that on VAX (especially a Microvax II with TK50 F > backing up 10 gigs), the estimated time might be in weeks instead of > hours :-)   1 VMS time format is good for another 7994 years...    >  > D > What would be really neat is if one could interrogate a BACKUP jobP > running in batch and get a reply back from it giving the equivalent of CTRL-T. >   E You got me thinking the exact same thing when reading the 1st part of  your post...  J > Perhaps something like REQUEST/TO=BACKUP STATUS   and then, BACKUP would& > reply with the relevant information.  E Might need a different mechanism, since backup (I think) only listens B for OPCOM messages when it is waiting for something, like the nextB volume to be mounted.  Also, you would probably want to be able toE specify which backup process; there could be several of them running.   B But some way to trigger BACKUP to send the status info as an OPCOM? message (can it do this from an AST?) might be the simplest and C cleanest method, since it would use mostly existing infrastructure.   B (REPLY/ENABLE=BACKUP to see the messages, one of the many terminalE broadcast interceptors or OPCOM listeners could grab them if needed.)    --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Dec 2005 13:14:52 -0800 ' From: "syslost" <wm.reynolds@gmail.com> ; Subject: Re: values for vcc_ptes and show/mem/cache/full??? C Message-ID: <1133817292.919658.138620@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   G So, if I have 2 gig memory (which we do) on my VAX 7000, which show mem G reports to be 4,194,304 total pages.  And vcc_ptes is set to 10,000,000 D pages (5.12 gig), more memory than I have could be allocated to VIOCA (causing hard faults) ?  Should vcc_ptes be set to a lower value? E Autogen wants the value to be even higher, ("The calculated value was  2,000,000,000").   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2005 20:38:37 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>6 Subject: Re: Was the LN17 a DEC-branded Xerox printer?+ Message-ID: <4394F9AC.726943CC@comcast.net>    Paul Anderson wrote: > D > In article <1133783970.525149.24540@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,$ > Galen <gltackett@gmail.com> wrote: > G > > If so, do you know which Xerox-branded printer it was derived from?  > G > The LN17 was based on the Xerox DocuPrint 4517.  Some portions of the G > printer are different than the Xerox versions, especially the network ! > card which had LAT added to it.   5 Any idea if the LN03 was derived from something else?    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2005 22:31:28 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 6 Subject: Re: Was the LN17 a DEC-branded Xerox printer?+ Message-ID: <439505FE.F588E18@teksavvy.com>    David J Dachtera wrote: 7 > Any idea if the LN03 was derived from something else?    It was from a Ricoh printer.  D The motherboard of the LN03-Plus was all DEC though.  Based on IntelC 80186. (yes, the LN03 could have had the "Intel Inside" sticker and ; benefitted from all the IJntel subsidies for avbertising :-    ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 22:53:44 -0500- From: William Webb <william.w.webb@gmail.com> 6 Subject: Re: Was the LN17 a DEC-branded Xerox printer?I Message-ID: <8660a3a10512051953p11f8869end953a28d4a9ed2a6@mail.gmail.com>   : On 12/5/05, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote: > David J Dachtera wrote: 9 > > Any idea if the LN03 was derived from something else?  >  > It was from a Ricoh printer. > F > The motherboard of the LN03-Plus was all DEC though.  Based on IntelE > 80186. (yes, the LN03 could have had the "Intel Inside" sticker and = > benefitted from all the IJntel subsidies for avbertising :-  >    Brings back memories.   A The Ricoh kits cost less than half what the DEC-branded kits did. 5 Same products inside;only the labeling was different.    WWWebb   --C NOTE: This email address is only used for noncommerical VMS-related  correspondence. C All unsolicited commercial email will be deemed to be a request for 8 services pursuant to the terms and conditions located at# http://bellsouthpwp.net/w/e/webbww/    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 05:01:11 GMT / From: Clay M. Denton <denton@orison.dsserv.com> 6 Subject: Re: Was the LN17 a DEC-branded Xerox printer?8 Message-ID: <9vv9p15jlhucg00mocoeb53d9k9op3uskr@4ax.com>  
 Ricoh 4080   Clay  W On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 20:38:37 -0600, David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote:    >Paul Anderson wrote:  >>  E >> In article <1133783970.525149.24540@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, % >> Galen <gltackett@gmail.com> wrote:  >>  H >> > If so, do you know which Xerox-branded printer it was derived from? >>  H >> The LN17 was based on the Xerox DocuPrint 4517.  Some portions of theH >> printer are different than the Xerox versions, especially the network" >> card which had LAT added to it. > 6 >Any idea if the LN03 was derived from something else?   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.678 ************************