1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 08 Dec 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 682       Contents: CNET article on that IA64 thing # Re: CNET article on that IA64 thing # Re: CNET article on that IA64 thing # Re: CNET article on that IA64 thing # Re: CNET article on that IA64 thing  DS10 and cost of PCI slots Re: DS10 and cost of PCI slots Re: DS10 and cost of PCI slots Re: DS10 and cost of PCI slots Re: DS10 and cost of PCI slots Re: DS10 and cost of PCI slots Re: DS10 and cost of PCI slots Re: DS10 and cost of PCI slots Re: DS10 and cost of PCI slots Re: DS10 and cost of PCI slots Re: DS10 and cost of PCI slots) Re: DS10L hardware configuration question ) Re: DS10L hardware configuration question ) Re: DS10L hardware configuration question ) Re: DS10L hardware configuration question ) Re: DS10L hardware configuration question ) Re: DS10L hardware configuration question ) Re: DS10L hardware configuration question ) Re: DS10L hardware configuration question  Re: error parsing 'BLOCK_SIZE' Re: For Sale: 32CPU GS320  Re: For Sale: 32CPU GS320  Re: For Sale: 32CPU GS320  Re: For Sale: 32CPU GS320  Re: For Sale: 32CPU GS320  Re: For Sale: 32CPU GS320  Re: For Sale: 32CPU GS320 * Help with Storageworks Drive/BA364 problemD Re: How to convert bound volume set to single drive while preserving/ Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march today . Re: Interfacing to an AS400 from Alpha Cluster@ Re: Memory boards for the KA650 (uVAX-III) and KA655 (uVAX-III+)P New salary and benefits data in this post Re: HP : Massive strike and protest maP Re: New salary and benefits data in this post Re: HP : Massive strike and protes* Re: OpenVMS/TCPware Upgrade Results (good)* Re: OpenVMS/TCPware Upgrade Results (good)* RE: OpenVMS/TCPware Upgrade Results (good)* Re: OpenVMS/TCPware Upgrade Results (good) Re: Pyhon perfomance?  Re: Pyhon perfomance?  Re: Pyhon perfomance?  Re: Pyhon perfomance?  RE: Pyhon perfomance? 4 SDA> TCPIP SHO DEV/PORT=n/SOCK displays no BG device8 Re: SDA> TCPIP SHO DEV/PORT=n/SOCK displays no BG device# Re: Shots fired on AA plane (Miami) # Re: Shots fired on AA plane (Miami) = Re: Sixty (six-zero) VMS engineers *with* security clearance?  Re: V8.3 teaser  Re: V8.3 teaser  Re: V8.3 teaser   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 17:30:38 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> ( Subject: CNET article on that IA64 thing, Message-ID: <43976288.6593575A@teksavvy.com>  B A 4 page article on the history of IA64 and why it didn't pan out.  Q http://news.com.com/Itanium+A+cautionary+tale/2100-1006_3-5984747.html?tag=st.num   F "I was the one who initiated that, probably two-and-a-half years ago,"D Marcello said of the high-end shift. "I don't think you can span theB entire sever market with one architecture. Originally, Itanium wasF envisioned as an architecture to replace the entire spectrum, and that$ turned out to be overly ambitious."   H I think it is pretty pretentious of Marcello to make that claim. Such asG shift would have been done at the Carly/Grove level in planning for the  future of IA64.   E And if it is Marcello who suggested this policy to Carly, it may also D explain why VMS was relegated to high end only. While I don't give aB shit about that IA64 thing, I do want VMS to succeed and feel thatD anyone who thinks VMS has to be relegated to high end only should be fired.      D It was a big mistake for Marcello to brag about it being his idea toH relegate IA64 to an insignificant market niche. Not because of IA64, butH because of the other products he is responsible for which may suffer the
 same fate.  F He may have save VMS from official extinction under Compaq, but he may$ also be preventing VMS from growing.   ------------------------------  * Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 22:35:38 +0000 (UTC)P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply), Subject: Re: CNET article on that IA64 thing$ Message-ID: <dn7o3p$pqt$3@online.de>  5 In article <43976288.6593575A@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei ' <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:    D > A 4 page article on the history of IA64 and why it didn't pan out. > S > http://news.com.com/Itanium+A+cautionary+tale/2100-1006_3-5984747.html?tag=st.num  > H > "I was the one who initiated that, probably two-and-a-half years ago,"F > Marcello said of the high-end shift. "I don't think you can span theD > entire sever market with one architecture. Originally, Itanium wasH > envisioned as an architecture to replace the entire spectrum, and that& > turned out to be overly ambitious."   I Of course, when DEC was a successful company, one of the reasons for its  F success was that there WAS one architecture, from the VLC to the 9000.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 15:50:49 -0700 % From: Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com> , Subject: Re: CNET article on that IA64 thingA Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20051207155019.0230f9f8@raptor.psccos.com>   F At 03:35 PM 12/7/2005, Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:6 >In article <43976288.6593575A@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei' ><jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:  > F > > A 4 page article on the history of IA64 and why it didn't pan out. > >  > > S > http://news.com.com/Itanium+A+cautionary+tale/2100-1006_3-5984747.html?tag=st.num  > > J > > "I was the one who initiated that, probably two-and-a-half years ago,"H > > Marcello said of the high-end shift. "I don't think you can span theF > > entire sever market with one architecture. Originally, Itanium wasJ > > envisioned as an architecture to replace the entire spectrum, and that' > > turned out to be overly ambitious."  > I >Of course, when DEC was a successful company, one of the reasons for its G >success was that there WAS one architecture, from the VLC to the 9000.   I ..'cept for the time when there was still the PDP-11 (and even the PDP-8   for a few years)...      ------J +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+J | Dan O'Reilly                  |  "There are 10 types of people in this |J | Principal Engineer            |   world: those who understand binary   |J | Process Software              |   and those who don't."                |J | http://www.process.com        |                                        |J +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 18:59:26 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> , Subject: Re: CNET article on that IA64 thing0 Message-ID: <11petog791n6mea@corp.supernews.com>  / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: 7 > In article <43976288.6593575A@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei ) > <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:   >  > D >>A 4 page article on the history of IA64 and why it didn't pan out. >>S >>http://news.com.com/Itanium+A+cautionary+tale/2100-1006_3-5984747.html?tag=st.num  >>H >>"I was the one who initiated that, probably two-and-a-half years ago,"F >>Marcello said of the high-end shift. "I don't think you can span theD >>entire sever market with one architecture. Originally, Itanium wasH >>envisioned as an architecture to replace the entire spectrum, and that& >>turned out to be overly ambitious."  >  > K > Of course, when DEC was a successful company, one of the reasons for its  H > success was that there WAS one architecture, from the VLC to the 9000. >   F I'd add AlphaStation 200 and such at one end, and GS1280 at the other < end, as an architecture that also spans the entire spectrum.  F Not including some really small embedded stuff, though, VAX and Alpha > could be used in such.  Not as cost effective as ARM and such.  1 Even the itanic has both small and large systems.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 19:50:07 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> , Subject: Re: CNET article on that IA64 thing, Message-ID: <43978331.B6716F40@teksavvy.com>   Dave Froble wrote:3 > Even the itanic has both small and large systems.     E There is a big difference between what is actually available to those G who know it and what is being actively marketed, what is portrayed as a D long term commercial growth market, and what is protrayed as just to allow developpers.  D When HP senior hunchos make veryt public statements about a platformG and/or an OS being relegated to the high end market, that sends quite a G message that it isn't really designed for low and midrange markets even  though machines do exist.   D If a small/medium business calls HP, what are the odds that HP would present VMS to them ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 16:33:10 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> # Subject: DS10 and cost of PCI slots , Message-ID: <43975514.870733BB@teksavvy.com>  F I am really really surprised that the DS10 line has only one PCI slot.G This means you either get SCSI disks or graphics adaptor, but not both.   E Was this a marketing decision to cripple the machine so that the more G expensive DS20 could be justified ? Or does providing 3 PCI slots truly $ cost more to build than 1 PCI slot ?   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 16:42:32 -0500C From: "David Turner, Island Computers US Corp" <dbturner@icusc.com> ' Subject: Re: DS10 and cost of PCI slots 9 Message-ID: <SzIlf.45767$i7.37836@bignews2.bellsouth.net>    Ds10L - 1 PCI Slot( DS10 - 4 PCI SLots - 1 x 32Bit 3 x 64Bit       --     David B Turner Island Computers US Corp 2700 Gregory St, Suite 180 Savannah GA 31404  Tel: 912 447 6622 X201 Cell: 912 447 6622 X252  Fax: 912 201 0402  Email: dbturner@icusc.com  Web: http://www.islandco.com% ===================================== < All orders are subject to the following terms and conditions. of sale. These should be read before ordering.% http://www.islandco.com/warranty.html   : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message& news:43975514.870733BB@teksavvy.com...H > I am really really surprised that the DS10 line has only one PCI slot.I > This means you either get SCSI disks or graphics adaptor, but not both.  > G > Was this a marketing decision to cripple the machine so that the more I > expensive DS20 could be justified ? Or does providing 3 PCI slots truly & > cost more to build than 1 PCI slot ?   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 23:35:16 +0100+ From: Marc Schlensog <fishtank.spam@web.de> ' Subject: Re: DS10 and cost of PCI slots : Message-ID: <20051207233516.44006c03.fishtank.spam@web.de>  " On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 16:33:10 -0500. JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:  H > I am really really surprised that the DS10 line has only one PCI slot.C > This means you either get SCSI disks or graphics adaptor, but not  > both.  > G > Was this a marketing decision to cripple the machine so that the more C > expensive DS20 could be justified ? Or does providing 3 PCI slots , > truly cost more to build than 1 PCI slot ?  A You are mistaking a DS10L for a DS10. A DS10L surely got only one F PCI-slot. That should be sufficient for a cluster-system. The DS10 hasF got more slots, which is sufficient for a workstation and even certain server-purposes...   Marc   ------------------------------  * Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 22:25:03 +0000 (UTC)P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)' Subject: Re: DS10 and cost of PCI slots $ Message-ID: <dn7nfv$pqt$2@online.de>  5 In article <43975514.870733BB@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei ' <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:    H > I am really really surprised that the DS10 line has only one PCI slot.I > This means you either get SCSI disks or graphics adaptor, but not both.  > G > Was this a marketing decision to cripple the machine so that the more I > expensive DS20 could be justified ? Or does providing 3 PCI slots truly & > cost more to build than 1 PCI slot ?  E There are certainly folks who need neither.  Why should they pay for   something they don't need?   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Dec 2005 17:15:46 -0600 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) ' Subject: Re: DS10 and cost of PCI slots 3 Message-ID: <xbz8dYf71GSh@eisner.encompasserve.org>   w In article <dn7nfv$pqt$2@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: 7 > In article <43975514.870733BB@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei ) > <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:   > I >> I am really really surprised that the DS10 line has only one PCI slot. J >> This means you either get SCSI disks or graphics adaptor, but not both. >>  H >> Was this a marketing decision to cripple the machine so that the moreJ >> expensive DS20 could be justified ? Or does providing 3 PCI slots truly' >> cost more to build than 1 PCI slot ?  > G > There are certainly folks who need neither.  Why should they pay for   > something they don't need?  ; What some of those people don't want to pay for is _space_. ; The DS10L is much shorter than the DS10.  For those who can @ afford the space and need more slots, the DS10 should be chosen.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 18:53:37 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> ' Subject: Re: DS10 and cost of PCI slots 0 Message-ID: <11petdhi6bcd00a@corp.supernews.com>   Hoff Hoffman wrote: ^ > In article <43975514.870733BB@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:I > :I am really really surprised that the DS10 line has only one PCI slot.  > @ >   The 3U-height AlphaServer DS10 has four PCI slots available. > F >   The 1U-height AlphaServer DS10L has one PCI slot on its PCI riser. > I >   As a general rule, 1U-height systems are not known for their internal  >   expandability. >  > 	--  > 7 >   http://h18002.www1.hp.com/alphaserver/archive/ds10/ 8 >   http://h18002.www1.hp.com/alphaserver/archive/ds10l/ >  > 	--  > G >   HP Hardware Engineering has recently introduced its innovative new  H >   Singularity Packaging Technology (tm), allowing the interior volume J >   of the system enclosure to be far larger than its exterior dimensions.K >   SPT support greatly increases the expansion capabilities of 1U systems. L >   Unfortunately, HP SPT was only available after the AlphaServer DS10 and K >   DS10L series was shipping, and -- due to the power requirements and/or  J >   the greatly increased mass required for stable operation of the event L >   horizon, and due to communications signal propogation delays around the J >   event horizon -- the HP SPT support has not been retro-fit into these J >   AlphaServer systems.  HP SPT would allows a near-infinite mass-limitedI >   number of PCI slots within the AlphaServer DS10L.  Unfortunately, no  H >   customers have yet met the structural requirements nor have acquiredJ >   the requisite intergalactic singularity licenses that are involved in J >   constructing and populating a computer room supporting racks of these ) >   AlphaServer DS10L/SPT series systems.    It's been a slow day, huh?   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 18:10:23 -0600 % From: Dan Foster <usenet@evilphb.org> ' Subject: Re: DS10 and cost of PCI slots 5 Message-ID: <slrndpeuff.2rn.usenet@zappy.catbert.org>   U In article <ghKlf.284$5b7.257@news.cpqcorp.net>, Hoff Hoffman <hoff@hp.nospam> wrote:  > I >   As a general rule, 1U-height systems are not known for their internal  >   expandability.   True enough.  @ I do have (non-HP) 1U-height systems with two internal PCI slotsG (side-by-side on the horizontal plane), but the tradeoff is, the system ! had to be made a fair bit longer.   G Not particularly thrilled about the increased length when you have some E fairly long systems poking out of a conventional rack and causing all E sorts of safety and regulatory issues with respect to aisle clearance  between rows of racks.  F My shorter 1U systems has only one slot in order to squeeze everything= in the available space. It sounds like the DS10L more closely F approximates these, so having only one slot is perhaps understandable.   -Dan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 18:12:48 -0600 % From: Dan Foster <usenet@evilphb.org> ' Subject: Re: DS10 and cost of PCI slots 5 Message-ID: <slrndpeuk0.2rn.usenet@zappy.catbert.org>   U In article <ghKlf.284$5b7.257@news.cpqcorp.net>, Hoff Hoffman <hoff@hp.nospam> wrote:  > G >   HP Hardware Engineering has recently introduced its innovative new  H >   Singularity Packaging Technology (tm), allowing the interior volume J >   of the system enclosure to be far larger than its exterior dimensions.K >   SPT support greatly increases the expansion capabilities of 1U systems.   G Didn't the SPT release notes mention that corner cases, such as systems B utilizing SPT and located near wormholes, were as of this time, an untested configuration? :-)    -Dan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 19:39:34 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> ' Subject: Re: DS10 and cost of PCI slots , Message-ID: <439780B8.E77E4E1C@teksavvy.com>   Hoff Hoffman wrote: @ >   The 3U-height AlphaServer DS10 has four PCI slots available.F >   The 1U-height AlphaServer DS10L has one PCI slot on its PCI riser.    F My mistake. I had seen so many messages about having to choose betweenF the scsi or graphics card with "DS10" mentioned that I figured that it applied to all DS10s.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 19:45:39 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> ' Subject: Re: DS10 and cost of PCI slots , Message-ID: <43978225.F2209D19@teksavvy.com>   Hoff Hoffman wrote: F >   HP Hardware Engineering has recently introduced its innovative newG >   Singularity Packaging Technology (tm), allowing the interior volume J >   of the system enclosure to be far larger than its exterior dimensions.    D The BBC has recently launched a lawsuit against HP stating that this@ concept is copyrighted by BBC's Tardis device and demands HP pay royalties to the BBC.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 17:53:15 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> ' Subject: Re: DS10 and cost of PCI slots ( Message-ID: <ops1fzi1pgzgicya@hyrrokkin>  G On 7 Dec 2005 17:15:46 -0600, Larry Kilgallen <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net>    wrote:  H > In article <dn7nfv$pqt$2@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de  4 > (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes:8 >> In article <43975514.870733BB@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei) >> <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:  >>J >>> I am really really surprised that the DS10 line has only one PCI slot.K >>> This means you either get SCSI disks or graphics adaptor, but not both.  >>> I >>> Was this a marketing decision to cripple the machine so that the more K >>> expensive DS20 could be justified ? Or does providing 3 PCI slots truly ( >>> cost more to build than 1 PCI slot ? >>G >> There are certainly folks who need neither.  Why should they pay for  >> something they don't need?  > = > What some of those people don't want to pay for is _space_. = > The DS10L is much shorter than the DS10.  For those who can B > afford the space and need more slots, the DS10 should be chosen.  H I believe there is a PCI card which combines graphics, scsi and ethernet2 which would make the DS10L attractive to Hobbyists   ------------------------------  * Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 19:00:35 +0000 (UTC)- From: klewis@OMEGA.MITRE.ORG (Keith A. Lewis) 2 Subject: Re: DS10L hardware configuration question. Message-ID: <dn7bgj$m7i$1@newslocal.mitre.org>   Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com> writes in article <6.1.2.0.2.20051207093404.0243c4b8@raptor.psccos.com> dated Wed, 07 Dec 2005 09:34:54 -0700:0 >At 09:18 AM 12/7/2005, Stanley F. Quayle wrote:F >>DQDRIVER (the IDE device driver) in VMS can only access 137 GB on anE >>IDE disk.  I have a DPW 500au with a 200 GB drive, but it INIT's it  >>to 137 GB. > M >I thought IDE wasn't supported for anything other than CDROM on the PWS.  I  D >have a PWS600au and would love to run a (cheap) IDE on it.  What's  >performance like?  J Correct -- it is not supported.  It does work, but the CPU spends the bulk? of its time in "interrupt state" when accessing the IDE disk.     G I moved my data over to a Duron/Linux system (served to VMS via NFS) to  improve performance.    I BTW, the 137 GB limit is hardware, not software.  I have the same problem I with my Apple G-3, even though it's running a much newer OS.  The old IDE L controller doesn't know there's a such thing as [whatever structure they use to hold the additional bits].   A I don't know whether the DS10L has the size limit problem or not.   0 --Keith Lewis              klewis {at} mitre.org> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 20:20:05 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) 2 Subject: Re: DS10L hardware configuration question/ Message-ID: <VtHlf.267$8a7.39@news.cpqcorp.net>    In article <7KElf.45722$i7.19591@bignews2.bellsouth.net>, "David Turner, Island Computers US Corp" <dbturner@icusc.com> writes:   &   regarding IDE/ATA/ATAPI on OpenVMS..  ! :IDE is supported as bootable on:  :  :Alpha PWS <Miata GL>  :XP1000  :DS10  :DS10L :DS20e :ES40 etc on VMS 7.1-2 onward   I   David Turner and/or Island may well be supporting these configurations.   B   As for OpenVMS Engineering, IDE/ATAPI bootstraps are officially G   supported on a variety of systems, including a subset of the DIGITAL  H   Personal Workstation (PWS) -au series systems.  Do see the OpenVMS FAQF   for details on which ones will boot from IDE/ATAPI.  The only Alpha D   systems that OpenVMS Engineering supports for IDE/ATA system disk C   bootstraps are the AlphaServer DS10 and AlphaServer DS10L series  
   systems.  =   IDE: integrated (or sometimes `idiot' :-) drive electronics 6         a simple and inexpensive storage I/O interface5   ATA: simple controller-level disk interface for IDE % 	this IDE interface is used for disks 3   ATAPI: SCSI-like command packet interface for IDE 0 	used for optical media, removable devices, etc.3 	used for most everything IDE other than ATA disks.   >   Some Alpha systems will have other problems booting certain @   (unsupported) ATAPI devices, as well.  The AlphaServer XP1000,B   for instance, is not successful in (unsupported) bootstraps from>   DVD Writer 740i series DVD drives, for instance.  This is an   SRM console limitation.   @   Performance of the IDE/ATA interface is slow.  IDE/ATAPI isn't>   particularly fast, either.  This is as implemented, with the>   hardware and software in use on OpenVMS Alpha.  Please don't;   point me at the IDE specifications or at relative IDE I/O =   performance on other systems, or at the theoretical IDE bus @   performance numbers -- I know them.  The IDE controllers found>   on most Alpha systems are comparatively slow, and various ofA   the IDE controllers cannot operate in DMA due to any of various &   (and typically hardware) constrants.  @   It is possible to stuff 48-bit addressing into DQDRIVER.  I do@   know how, where, and exactly what needs to be inserted where, B   and I fully expect that several other engineers here in OpenVMS ?   engineering also know.  (I also know how to pound on DQDRIVER ?   with large volumes of I/O, and code I am responsible for most -   certainly does pound hard.  But I digress.)   C   Where this gets interesting is with whether or not the particular B   IDE controller, ATA disk or storage configuration will (continueA   to) work as expected.  Coding changes to DQDRIVER (or any other B   core device driver) is usually not particularly difficult -- theD   effort involved ensuring the changes will work reliably across allF   of the configurations and devices has always been the "entertaining"F   part of the project.  (There is also no shortage of these projects, E   and the unenviable task of the OpenVMS business management folks is $   to schedule all of your requests.)  ?   With no large ATA disks supported on the AlphaServer DS10 nor A   AlphaServer DS10L series (the only systems with ATA system disk ?   support), there has not been a particular case to accellerate $   any support for 48-bit addressing.  @   If you need the support for 48-bit addressing on ATA or if youA   are interested in SATA support or if you want a current copy of =   the DQDRIVER source code to make your own changes (etc), do =   please let me know and I will pass along the request(s) to  0   OpenVMS business management for consideration.    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------G        Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[\0100]hp.com    ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 15:53:51 -0500C From: "David Turner, Island Computers US Corp" <dbturner@icusc.com> 2 Subject: Re: DS10L hardware configuration question7 Message-ID: <eSHlf.8090$cA2.655@bignews3.bellsouth.net>   K Wouldn't mind some kind of USB drivers that recognize flash devices as hard  disks 6 SATA could also be interesting due to their low prices   --     David B Turner Island Computers US Corp 2700 Gregory St, Suite 180 Savannah GA 31404  Tel: 912 447 6622 X201 Cell: 912 447 6622 X252  Fax: 912 201 0402  Email: dbturner@icusc.com  Web: http://www.islandco.com% ===================================== < All orders are subject to the following terms and conditions. of sale. These should be read before ordering.% http://www.islandco.com/warranty.html   0 "Hoff Hoffman" <hoff@hp.nospam> wrote in message) news:VtHlf.267$8a7.39@news.cpqcorp.net... J > In article <7KElf.45722$i7.19591@bignews2.bellsouth.net>, "David Turner,6 Island Computers US Corp" <dbturner@icusc.com> writes: > ( >   regarding IDE/ATA/ATAPI on OpenVMS.. > # > :IDE is supported as bootable on:  > :  > :Alpha PWS <Miata GL> 	 > :XP1000  > :DS10  > :DS10L > :DS20e > :ES40 etc on VMS 7.1-2 onward  > K >   David Turner and/or Island may well be supporting these configurations.  > C >   As for OpenVMS Engineering, IDE/ATAPI bootstraps are officially H >   supported on a variety of systems, including a subset of the DIGITALJ >   Personal Workstation (PWS) -au series systems.  Do see the OpenVMS FAQG >   for details on which ones will boot from IDE/ATAPI.  The only Alpha E >   systems that OpenVMS Engineering supports for IDE/ATA system disk D >   bootstraps are the AlphaServer DS10 and AlphaServer DS10L series >   systems. > ? >   IDE: integrated (or sometimes `idiot' :-) drive electronics 8 >         a simple and inexpensive storage I/O interface7 >   ATA: simple controller-level disk interface for IDE & > this IDE interface is used for disks5 >   ATAPI: SCSI-like command packet interface for IDE 1 > used for optical media, removable devices, etc. 4 > used for most everything IDE other than ATA disks. > ? >   Some Alpha systems will have other problems booting certain B >   (unsupported) ATAPI devices, as well.  The AlphaServer XP1000,D >   for instance, is not successful in (unsupported) bootstraps from@ >   DVD Writer 740i series DVD drives, for instance.  This is an >   SRM console limitation.  > B >   Performance of the IDE/ATA interface is slow.  IDE/ATAPI isn't@ >   particularly fast, either.  This is as implemented, with the@ >   hardware and software in use on OpenVMS Alpha.  Please don't= >   point me at the IDE specifications or at relative IDE I/O ? >   performance on other systems, or at the theoretical IDE bus B >   performance numbers -- I know them.  The IDE controllers found@ >   on most Alpha systems are comparatively slow, and various ofC >   the IDE controllers cannot operate in DMA due to any of various ( >   (and typically hardware) constrants. > B >   It is possible to stuff 48-bit addressing into DQDRIVER.  I doA >   know how, where, and exactly what needs to be inserted where, C >   and I fully expect that several other engineers here in OpenVMS A >   engineering also know.  (I also know how to pound on DQDRIVER A >   with large volumes of I/O, and code I am responsible for most / >   certainly does pound hard.  But I digress.)  > E >   Where this gets interesting is with whether or not the particular D >   IDE controller, ATA disk or storage configuration will (continueC >   to) work as expected.  Coding changes to DQDRIVER (or any other D >   core device driver) is usually not particularly difficult -- theF >   effort involved ensuring the changes will work reliably across allH >   of the configurations and devices has always been the "entertaining"G >   part of the project.  (There is also no shortage of these projects, G >   and the unenviable task of the OpenVMS business management folks is & >   to schedule all of your requests.) > A >   With no large ATA disks supported on the AlphaServer DS10 nor C >   AlphaServer DS10L series (the only systems with ATA system disk A >   support), there has not been a particular case to accellerate & >   any support for 48-bit addressing. > B >   If you need the support for 48-bit addressing on ATA or if youC >   are interested in SATA support or if you want a current copy of ? >   the DQDRIVER source code to make your own changes (etc), do > >   please let me know and I will pass along the request(s) to2 >   OpenVMS business management for consideration. >  > ( >  ---------------------------- #include' <rtfaq.h> ----------------------------- 4 >     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ --  www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq , >  --------------------------- pure personal# opinion --------------------------- I >        Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[\0100]hp.com  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 21:55:29 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) 2 Subject: Re: DS10L hardware configuration question0 Message-ID: <lTIlf.271$377.216@news.cpqcorp.net>  } In article <eSHlf.8090$cA2.655@bignews3.bellsouth.net>, "David Turner, Island Computers US Corp" <dbturner@icusc.com> writes: L :Wouldn't mind some kind of USB drivers that recognize flash devices as hard= :disks SATA could also be interesting due to their low prices   H   I would not particularly expect to see additional USB nor SATA supportJ   on the AlphaServer DS10 nor DS10L series (nor on most other older Alpha F   series boxes) without some specific customer request(s), nor changesF   to teh SRM console that might be needed to add USB or SATA to one of   these older platforms.    J   Various USB considerations and options for OpenVMS Alpha and OpenVMS I64=   systems have been discussed on previous occasions, as well.   J   USB is officially available on members of the AlphaServer GS1280 family,I   and on the Integrity server series.  USB PCI options can potentially be K   gotten to work on various of the other Alpha series systems, as discussed 
   in the FAQ.   G   Various USB flash devices have been found to operate on the Integrity F   servers, and various folks have demonstrated flash-based bootstraps.H   (I made changes within SETBOOT that specifically allowed this USB boot>   path to work, though (AFAIK) it's not officially supported.)  I   USB details and driver pointers are also in the FAQ, as is often usual.   K   Feature requests should be directed to OpenVMS business management folks.   N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------G        Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[\0100]hp.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 17:42:50 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 2 Subject: Re: DS10L hardware configuration question, Message-ID: <43976563.589EF6D3@teksavvy.com>   Hoff Hoffman wrote: J >   I would not particularly expect to see additional USB nor SATA support- >   on the AlphaServer DS10 nor DS10L series    L >   USB is officially available on members of the AlphaServer GS1280 family,  N OK, so to plug in a Camera or PDA onto VMS, I need to buy a GS1280 ???????????   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 23:44:30 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) 2 Subject: Re: DS10L hardware configuration question0 Message-ID: <ytKlf.288$M67.202@news.cpqcorp.net>  \ In article <43976563.589EF6D3@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: :Hoff Hoffman wrote:K :>   I would not particularly expect to see additional USB nor SATA support . :>   on the AlphaServer DS10 nor DS10L series  : M :>   USB is officially available on members of the AlphaServer GS1280 family,  : O :OK, so to plug in a Camera or PDA onto VMS, I need to buy a GS1280 ???????????   G   Ayup, that should work.  An AlphaServer ES47 -- the low-end member of =   that platform series -- makes a very nice workstation, too.   I   An Integrity server running OpenVMS I64 might well be a cheaper option.   H   As I might assume and expect you don't require official support here, G   acquiring one of the PCI USB cards and connecting up the various USB  F   giblets discussed in the FAQ (and provided on the OpenVMS Freeware)    is even cheaper.     	--   D   When you order up your AlphaServer GS1280 or Integrity server, youF   might want to consider a replacement LK463 USB keyboard, as it looks0   like your current keyboard has a sticky ? key.    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------G        Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[\0100]hp.com    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Dec 2005 17:44:59 -0600 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 2 Subject: Re: DS10L hardware configuration question3 Message-ID: <$oMk17dm1gri@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <43976563.589EF6D3@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > Hoff Hoffman wrote: K >>   I would not particularly expect to see additional USB nor SATA support . >>   on the AlphaServer DS10 nor DS10L series  > M >>   USB is officially available on members of the AlphaServer GS1280 family,  > P > OK, so to plug in a Camera or PDA onto VMS, I need to buy a GS1280 ???????????  : To avoid a single point of failure, you should buy two :-)  A I believe the supply of VMS software to support those peripherals A is currently non-existent, so you have a business opportunity. It ! is up to you to gauge the market.    ------------------------------  * Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 02:14:19 +0000 (UTC)7 From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) 2 Subject: Re: DS10L hardware configuration question( Message-ID: <dn84tr$i9v$1@pcls4.std.com>  % hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:   I >  I would not particularly expect to see additional USB nor SATA support K >  on the AlphaServer DS10 nor DS10L series (nor on most other older Alpha  G >  series boxes) without some specific customer request(s), nor changes G >  to teh SRM console that might be needed to add USB or SATA to one of  >  these older platforms.     C I'm kinda peeved that the USB on the DS10L seems to be deliberately 5 disabled so I can't even play with unsupported stuff.    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 23:01:56 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) ' Subject: Re: error parsing 'BLOCK_SIZE' / Message-ID: <ERJlf.281$5b7.80@news.cpqcorp.net>   w In article <dn7j9m$idu$1@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: E :In article <BkIlf.270$O77.46@news.cpqcorp.net>, hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff  :Hoffman) writes:  : z :> In article <dn7ggb$d59$3@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes:J :> :Portion done: 0%...10%...20%...30%...40%...50%...60%...70%...80%...90%- :> :%CLI-F-SYNTAX, error parsing 'BLOCK_SIZE' > :> :-CLI-E-ENTNF, specified entity not found in command tablesF :> :...100%SKPDAT, image data (records not beginning with "$") ignored :>  G :>   There is a skew between the (old) COPY.CLD and the (new) COPY.EXE  G :>   command image in the parent and in the PCSI subprocess, basically  C :>   as a result of how PCSI, the spawn operation, and the ECO kit  D :>   update all interact -- and this particular error arises only in :>   certain cases.  : J :Main questions: a) is the patch installation OK and b) if not, shouldn't G :PRODUCT exit with something other than "normal successful completion"? J :I was assuming that it arises since the UPDATE kit expects a more modern C :version of COPY than that present on the system.  Am I wrong here?   I   If you wish a detailed explanation of why, how, what we are doing about G   this error, and other such considerations (details beyond what I have E   posted, that is), I must respectfully decline that effort.  (I have F   various folks I've promised off-to-the-side favors, too; folks that E   are in my queue in front of this or other non-official work I might @   consider, too.   Again, no offense and no slight is intended.)  H   There are engineers that are looking into why this error has occured, G   and I do expect that the error will be addressed in a future ECO kit.   G   I can and certainly will thank you for reporting this error, and ask  H   that you follow the steps for remediation that I've suggested.  PleaseG   also accept my apologies that you've encountered this error, as well.     N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------G        Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[\0100]hp.com    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Dec 2005 11:04:19 -0800  From: madcrow.maxwell@gmail.com " Subject: Re: For Sale: 32CPU GS320C Message-ID: <1133982258.970212.197850@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>   < What on earth was that used for? Super-computing type tasks?   ------------------------------  * Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 20:18:59 +0000 (UTC)P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)" Subject: Re: For Sale: 32CPU GS320$ Message-ID: <dn7g3j$d59$1@online.de>  C In article <1133982258.970212.197850@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>, " madcrow.maxwell@gmail.com writes:   > > What on earth was that used for? Super-computing type tasks?  F Probably not.  Modern supercomputers usually have thousands of CPUs.  ? Still, there are lots of applications which need a 32CPU GS320.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 15:55:32 -0500C From: "David Turner, Island Computers US Corp" <dbturner@icusc.com> " Subject: Re: For Sale: 32CPU GS3208 Message-ID: <OTHlf.8095$cA2.5432@bignews3.bellsouth.net>    They are a Genome mapping entityK Human genes mapping was one of their jobs from what an ex-eomployee told me        DT   --     David B Turner Island Computers US Corp 2700 Gregory St, Suite 180 Savannah GA 31404  Tel: 912 447 6622 X201 Cell: 912 447 6622 X252  Fax: 912 201 0402  Email: dbturner@icusc.com  Web: http://www.islandco.com% ===================================== < All orders are subject to the following terms and conditions. of sale. These should be read before ordering.% http://www.islandco.com/warranty.html   , <madcrow.maxwell@gmail.com> wrote in message= news:1133982258.970212.197850@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com... > > What on earth was that used for? Super-computing type tasks? >    ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 15:56:15 -0500C From: "David Turner, Island Computers US Corp" <dbturner@icusc.com> " Subject: Re: For Sale: 32CPU GS3207 Message-ID: <tUHlf.8097$cA2.970@bignews3.bellsouth.net>   @ Oh and get this... they replaced all their Tru64 stuff with PC s   --     David B Turner Island Computers US Corp 2700 Gregory St, Suite 180 Savannah GA 31404  Tel: 912 447 6622 X201 Cell: 912 447 6622 X252  Fax: 912 201 0402  Email: dbturner@icusc.com  Web: http://www.islandco.com% ===================================== < All orders are subject to the following terms and conditions. of sale. These should be read before ordering.% http://www.islandco.com/warranty.html   F "David Turner, Island Computers US Corp" <dbturner@icusc.com> wrote in< message news:WvDlf.60872$Y82.22639@bignews4.bellsouth.net... > They were using Tru64  >  > Enough said? >  > --   >  > David B Turner > Island Computers US Corp > 2700 Gregory St, Suite 180 > Savannah GA 31404  > Tel: 912 447 6622 X201 > Cell: 912 447 6622 X252  > Fax: 912 201 0402  > Email: dbturner@icusc.com  > Web: http://www.islandco.com' > ===================================== > > All orders are subject to the following terms and conditions0 > of sale. These should be read before ordering.' > http://www.islandco.com/warranty.html  > 0 > "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message$ > news:ops1e6p3qrzgicya@hyrrokkin... > > Why are you selling it?  > > + > > On 07 Dec 2005 04:50:14 GMT, Guy Coates 2 > > <gmpc@sanger.ac-dot-uk.no-spam.invalid> wrote: > > 	 > > > Hi,  > > > & > > > We have a 32 CPU GS320 for sale. > > >  > > > Specs: > > > 32x 1.0 Ghz EV68 CPUs  > > > 192GB of memory.! > > > 14x 36G internal scsi disks  > > > 4x fibre-channel cards.  > > > : > > > The machine  has a full maintainance record from HP. > > > @ > > > We are open to any reasonable offers, but you will have to- > > > arrange your own  shipping from the UK.  > > > 
 > > > Cheers,  > > > 	 > > > Guy  > > >  > >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 16:28:45 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> " Subject: Re: For Sale: 32CPU GS320, Message-ID: <4397540B.DF8907C7@teksavvy.com>  / "David Turner, Island Computers US Corp" wrote:  > B > Oh and get this... they replaced all their Tru64 stuff with PC s    H Could this be rephrased with "Instead of moving to Ia64, they moved from Alpha to 64 bit 8086s" ??????   ( One more reason to port VMS to the 8086.   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Dec 2005 22:38:24 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)" Subject: Re: For Sale: 32CPU GS320, Message-ID: <3vp6j0F16ii5oU1@individual.net>  , In article <4397540B.DF8907C7@teksavvy.com>,0 	JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:1 > "David Turner, Island Computers US Corp" wrote:  >>  C >> Oh and get this... they replaced all their Tru64 stuff with PC s  >  > J > Could this be rephrased with "Instead of moving to Ia64, they moved from > Alpha to 64 bit 8086s" ??????   H He said PC's.  He didn't say x86-64.  If they went to a Windows solution, it is very likely plain ordinary 32bit PC's.   > * > One more reason to port VMS to the 8086.  D Not necessarily.  They could have been running VMS when they were onC Alpha. They weren't.  There is no reason to believe that if VMS ran E on the 8086 they would have been any more likely to run it instead of  Tru64 or Windows.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 18:38:35 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> " Subject: Re: For Sale: 32CPU GS3200 Message-ID: <11peshdto8rbm94@corp.supernews.com>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:. > In article <4397540B.DF8907C7@teksavvy.com>,2 > 	JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > 1 >>"David Turner, Island Computers US Corp" wrote:  >>C >>>Oh and get this... they replaced all their Tru64 stuff with PC s  >> >>J >>Could this be rephrased with "Instead of moving to Ia64, they moved from >>Alpha to 64 bit 8086s" ??????  >  > J > He said PC's.  He didn't say x86-64.  If they went to a Windows solution. > it is very likely plain ordinary 32bit PC's. >  > * >>One more reason to port VMS to the 8086. >  > F > Not necessarily.  They could have been running VMS when they were onE > Alpha. They weren't.  There is no reason to believe that if VMS ran G > on the 8086 they would have been any more likely to run it instead of  > Tru64 or Windows.  >  > bill >   H Nor did he say windows.  He said PCs.  A Unix shop might find Linux, or H some of the BSD stuff you say is much better, a better fit than windows.  # The key question, were they HP PCs?   & Damn, I'm real close to the RANT edge.  E Had a discussion with a customer last night.  He's worried about how  I much longer he can count on VMS.  Told him that if Intel's ego held out,  C he probably could count on it for as long as matters.  Had fingers  G crossed.  The discussion touched on very large and 3-letter customers.  F Based upon numbers from the 2000 time frame, maintaining a CPU design > team really isn't too expensive, relatively, and that for the E government, or some very large organizations, the cost of continuing  E Alpha development would be possible.  Numbers I seem to remember are   $200M-$300M.   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Dec 2005 20:24:52 -0800  From: mcbill20@yahoo.com3 Subject: Help with Storageworks Drive/BA364 problem C Message-ID: <1134015892.365394.241630@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   F Hello all. I have a BA364-AB (four-high) Storageworks box connected toC a Qlogic ISP1020 SCSI card in a PWS500. I got this Storageworks box E with a few RZ29B-VA disks (in tan boxes, if that makes a difference). G Recently I purchased a 9.1 gig DS-RZ1EA-VW drive in a grey box on Ebay. D When I tried to mount the drive I saw a single flash of an amber LED4 and then got an error saying the medium was offline.  G At first I just assumed I had gotten a bad drive. I then found a 36 gig D DS-RZ1FC-VW drive, also in a grey container. When I attempt to mountF this one, I get a single flash of a green LED and then the same error.  D Can anyone tell me what the problem is? I don't know if these drivesG are too new for my SCSI card, or for this BA364 box, or is it something  else?   F My understanding of SCSI was that it always should be both forward andG backward compatible but that you would just take a performance hit, say F if you connected an ultra-320 drive to a SCSI-1 or SCSI-2 bus. (I know@ that of course, you can't mix single-ended, HVD and LVD though.)   Thanks.  Bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 13:58:08 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> M Subject: Re: How to convert bound volume set to single drive while preserving 0 Message-ID: <11pec3h2ncocb01@corp.supernews.com>   briggs@encompasserve.org wrote: \ > In article <11pbf56olt9mjc4@corp.supernews.com>, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes: >  >>AEF wrote: >> >>>Robert Deininger wrote: >>>  >>> I >>>>In article <1133827537.218810.48020@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, "R  >>>>Boyd" <bob@hax.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>K >>>>>After reading the documentation and looking at the articles in Ask The > >>>>>Wizard I haven't found what I thought would surely exist. >>>>> I >>>>>If I want to convert a bound volume set and preserve links for files L >>>>>with multiple directory entries, I want BACKUP /IMAGE to do the job for >>>>>me. >>>>> G >>>>>Is there another tool or some unpublished qualifier that will tell G >>>>>BACKUP to merge all of the files from a volume set into one output ? >>>>>device?  I already know about BACKUP INPUT_SET:[*...]*.*;*  >>>>>OUTPUT_DEVICE:[*...] H >>>>>The problem with that approach is that any existing multiply linkedL >>>>>files will wind up with duplicate copies.  I'd like to have a sure-fire >>>>>way of avoiding this. >>>>> K >>>>>If BACKUP won't do this, isn't it a good idea to add the capability to L >>>>>BACKUP, since the VMS Wizard is discouraging people from creating boundJ >>>>>volume sets now that significantly larger disks are available? I haveJ >>>>>several volume sets I want to convert and I don't want to worry about& >>>>>messing up multiply linked files. >>>>K >>>>I haven't used Bound Volume Sets in eons, so I'm likely forgetting some L >>>>details.  Doesn't the /NOALIAS qualifier do what you want with regard toM >>>>multiply linked files?  /NOALIAS will give you all the links but only the  >>>>original copy of the file. >>>  >>> J >>>While this would avoid multiple copies of such files, he would lose theE >>>alias directory entries. If he's worried about extra copies and is H >>>willing to manually re-create the aliases, then yes, that would work.I >>>But he said he wanted to preserve the links. You can only do that with  >>>BACKUP/IMAGE. >>>  >>? >>One poster raised the issue of the file ID.  I've never used  J >>multi-volume sets so do not know.  Can there be files in a multi-volume K >>set with the same file ID?  If so, that could be an issue.  If not, then  * >>a BACKUP/IMAGE should do what's desired. >  > @ > No.  There cannot be files in a multi-volume set with the sameA > file ID.  However there can be files in a multi-volume set with 3 > a file ID that is invalid in a single volume set.  > 4 > The relative volume number is part of the file ID. > 2 > So you need to change file IDs.  That's a given. > ? > And since /IMAGE backups preserve file IDs, that's a problem.  >  > 	John Briggs  B When the multi-volume capability first became available, I had an E instinctive adversion to the concept.  No solid reasons, just didn't  < like it.  Now 20 years later I discover a solid reason.  :-)   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 21:04:04 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>8 Subject: Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march today+ Message-ID: <4397A2A3.1A9C358A@comcast.net>   
 AEF wrote: >  > David J Dachtera wrote:  > > AEF wrote: > > >  > > > David J Dachtera wrote:  > > > > AEF wrote:	 > > > > > ! > > > > > David J Dachtera wrote:  > > > > > > AEF wrote:
 > > > > > > > % > > > > > > > David J Dachtera wrote:  > > > > > > > > Lurker wrote:  > > > > > > > > > A > > > > > > > > > "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> wrote in message N > > > > > > > > > news:1132844010.172444.16400@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com... > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > ...  > > > > > > > [...] Y > > > > > > > > > > 2. Unions are good/bad for workers, getting them a better/worse deal. M > > > > > > > > > > This includes wages and benefits, and working conditions.  > > > > > > > > > > S > > > > > > > > > > One thing I noticed from some is a pure "every man for himself" V > > > > > > > > > > attitude. They argue that unions should not be allowed to lock out? > > > > > > > > > > non-union workers willing to work for less.  > > > > > > > > > 8 > > > > > > > > > Why should they be allowed to do that? > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > Fairness. 
 > > > > > > > S > > > > > > > Well. It could well be that unions have done some good. Obviously not U > > > > > > > for our Bill G. and Lurker, but maybe for you and some others. But here N > > > > > > > in NYC all I see is that they abuse their power. Tell me how the4 > > > > > > > following article from AMny is "fair":
 > > > > > > > 3 > > > > > > > Transit Union Says It Won't Back Down 
 > > > > > > > Q > > > > > > > With its contract due to expire in less than three weeks, the union Q > > > > > > > representing transit workers continued to call on the MTA [New York R > > > > > > > City's Metropolitan Transportation Authority who is in charge of twoS > > > > > > > RR's, the subway and buses, and NYC bridges] yesterday to use some of > > > > > > > > its $1 billion budget surplus to raise salaries.
 > > > > > > > O > > > > > > > "We have the power, and we're putting the pressure on," said John T > > > > > > > Mooney, a vice president of the Transport Workers Union Local 100, whoU > > > > > > > was among dozens of workers who gathered for a rally yesterday in Union J > > > > > > > Square. ["We have the power." Now there's fairness for you.] > > > > > > R > > > > > > The transit agency has a $1 billion surplus. "Now there's fairness for > > > > > > you." 	 > > > > > Q > > > > > It's a fluke. No, the MTA aren't angels. But I'm not aware of any gov't ( > > > > > or agency surplus living long. > > > > ' > > > > Gee - I wonder why THAT is? :-)  > > > > 1 > > > > > The MTA and New York state are BILLIONS K > > > > > in debt. So it's not really a surplus. And why should the transit Q > > > > > workers get a 33% raise from that anyway? If they STOLE the $1 billion,  > > > > > that would be unfair. 	 > > > > >  > > > > > > > [snip]Q > > > > > > > OK, yes, there is a big surplus due to real estate taxes. But it is L > > > > > > > temporary and the MTA has a LOT of debt to pay down: billions. > > > > > > / > > > > > > Why have those debts not been paid? 	 > > > > > 2 > > > > > I don't know but your dodging the issue. > > > > 5 > > > > Nope. Fiscal responsibility *IS* _THE_ issue!  > > > K > > > So something good happens to help the situation and instead of paying = > > > down the debts you think the workers should get it all.  > >  > > Never said that. > - > Not explicitly or exactly but close enough.    Not even close.    > You thing the raise is fair   " Never said that. Check the record.  D > and you thing the $450 million towards the pensions is not enough.  . Never said that either. IT WAS A QUESTION!!!!!   > >  > > > The gov't J > > > either by being clever, or more likely by blind luck, has managed toM > > > get more money for the MTA to pay its debts. And you want them to throw ' > > > that away to overpay the workers.  > >  > > Never said that, either. > ! > You want them to give the raise   E Never said that, either. Check the record. I asked questions, period.   & > which means that much more debt goes< > unpaid. You also seem to think that no salary is too high,  * Never said that, either. Check the record.  
 > so yes, you H > didn't say to overpay the workers, but it looks like overpaying to me!   Opinion.   > >  > > > How is THAT responsible? > > > L > > > At what point do the workers have enough and future "surpluses" can beJ > > > use to pay down the debt? Is 100K/yr enough for a bus driver? $200K? > > D > > Show me an hourly person making that pay range on straight time. > > 5 > > > Would you find a million a year reasonable pay?  > >   > > Ask a CEO the same question. >   > Two wrongs don't make a right.  C Never said it did. I was redirecting your query so as to suggest an  alternative paradigm.   $ > I don't think anyone at the MTA is@ > getting that much. Six figures, yes. Seven, I really doubt it. >  > >  > > > > ( > > > > > First of all, the union shouldM > > > > > get a 33% raise and they certainly shouldn't be threatening to shut Q > > > > > down the city to get it, ESPECIALLY SINCE THE VERY SAME LAW THAT ALLOWS < > > > > > THEM TO HAVE A UNION FORBIDS THEM FROM STRIKING!!!	 > > > > > M > > > > > > I keep reading about pensions and such in arrears, which *ARE* an R > > > > > > obligation that employers somehow feel entitled to shirk. "Now there's > > > > > > fairness for you."	 > > > > > # > > > > > You're dodging the issue.  > > > > 
 > > > > Nope.  > > > L > > > They are not shirking the pension issue. In fact, the MTA said it will8 > > > use almost half of the "surplus" for the pensions. > > G > > Yet, the question still stands: Does that cover the entirety of the % > > "deferred pension fund deposits"?  > A > Fine. Let's say it doesn't. How does a 33% raise help cover the  > pensions? Hmmmmm?   ? Never said it did, but did say that the pension deposits are an C outstanding obligation (read: "debt") and so are not negotiable (at G least not with labor or labor's collective bargaining agent; that would # be between the MTA and the courts).    > >  > > > Giving the workersH > > > 33% increase will make all the debts even worse, meaning even moreJ > > > wasted money to pay down interest, which will cause a calamity laterH > > > on. Sooner or later, the riders and taxpayers are going to have toK > > > cough up additional money because of the additional interest on debt. 1 > > > The workers are trying to screw the public.  > > G > > The workers are trying to get a fair shake. It's the transit agency 4 > > management that's trying to screw the citizenry. > D > Wage-wise and pension-wise I think they are already getting a fair > shake.  > Opinion. See the previous reference to history and competitive comparison and analysis.  G > > > Actually, by giving a 33% raise, THAT is shirking the issue. That / > > > doesn't help their pension find one iota.  >  > > Again, the question stands.  > G > But it's THE UNION who is asking for the 33% raise so it is THE UNION  > that is "shirking the issue".   E No, they're not: they're addressing it directly. I've no way to know, G but I would think that if the MTA could be held accountable for failure H to pay into the pension fund, labor could be satiated with less generousF increase in pay scales. (Since MTA is shirking *ITS* responsibility toH pay into the pension fund, and apparently canot be trusted to honor thatF obligation, labor may be seeking to get the money directly in the "pay envelope", instead.)  + > Trust me, the MTA does not want to give a  > 33% raise to any worker.  F Few employers would, but most employers would recognize that past faux< pas would be met with stiff demands during the next round of3 negotiations when contracts come due to be renewed.   4 > > > > > In fact, the article said that half of theL > > > > > surplus was going to the pensions. So now it's only half a billion > > > > > dollars.	 > > > > >  > > > > > >  > > > > > > > New YorkU > > > > > > > state has one of the highest debt/capitas in the U.S. So please tell me U > > > > > > > how a demand for a net 33% increase in wages and threatening an illegal S > > > > > > > strike is "fair". How is it fair for 30,000 workers to hold a city of  > > > > > > > millions hostage?  > > > > > > N > > > > > > Non sequitur. No government or other agency is required to provideP > > > > > > transit, public or otherwise. Use of mass transit is a choice, not a > > > > > > requirement.	 > > > > > 8 > > > > > What? this justifies holding the city hostage? > > > > I > > > > Is cutting through a phone line with a back-hoe "holding the city E > > > > hostage"? (People survived for centuries without telephones.)  > > > > K > > > > Is breaking a gas or water main "holding the city hostage"? (People C > > > > survived for centuries without piped gas or running water.)  > > > > I > > > > Electrical blackouts? (People survived for centuries without it.)  > > > D > > > I'll tell you what. Let's have you refrain from using any cityI > > > utilities for the rest of your life. Hey, people survived centuries G > > > without them! Let's see how you fair. And that includes no VMS!!!  > > > L > > > Hello... we have become dependent on them. Hospitals need them to saveM > > > lives. Yes, people lived without them, but that's not a valid argument.  > > > L > > > > You're pinning your fortunes on elements you cannot control. WorkersB > > > > take job actions, utilities get cut off, and life goes on. > > > > ( > > > > Life is challenge. Deal with it. > > > 7 > > > So because of that it's okay for workers to abuse  > >  > > ...correction: assert... > >  > > > their union power? > > L > > If that's what it takes to ensure that employers are negotiating in goodC > > faith, that's why the system is the way it is; Say, "leverage".  > > ("leverage" != "debt") > - > Then it wouldn't be abuse, but it is abuse.   G Yes. Abuse of labor by management, which is what unions seek to prevent F since the judicial branch cannot be counted on to do so in a timely or# effective manner, for many reasons.    > > & > > > Are you just pushing my buttons? > > H > > I'm trying to get you past your prejudices so you'll turn your brainB > > back on think it though from the other person's point of view. > H > OK. Hey, I'd like a 33% raise too! Maybe I should threaten to sabotage' > public utilities and demand my raise!   < You can expect the black helicopters any time now, I'm sure.   > > L > > > Fine. I'll do whatever I can in my power to stop this nonsense and letK > > > THEM deal with it. Hey, you justify their actions. Why don't you tell 8 > > > THEM that life is a challenge and to deal with it? > > G > > They *ARE* dealing with it!!! That's what negotiation is all about!  > 8 > So threatening to do an illegal strike is negotiating?  F Try to grasp this: when negotiating fails, methods of last resort comeA into play, illegal/unconstitutional legislation not withstanding.   7 Get it that time, or do you need further clarification?    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 20:23:17 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) 7 Subject: Re: Interfacing to an AS400 from Alpha Cluster / Message-ID: <VwHlf.268$8a7.19@news.cpqcorp.net>   ` In article <IwElf.129$kW.105@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com>, "Labhras" <labhras@nowhere.pl> writes:B :Is XML part of the product distribution or a third party product?  E   An XML installation kit for OpenVMS is available from HP, and there C   are open source and various commercial options available as well.   F   Please see the OpenVMS Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) for related D   details -- download the text version of the FAQ and search it for D   "XML", quite obviously.  I'm presently releasing a port of libxml2@   for the next Freeware -- not the current version, but close...    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------G        Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[\0100]hp.com    ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 23:13:18 -0500 From: "Ray" <no@spam.me>I Subject: Re: Memory boards for the KA650 (uVAX-III) and KA655 (uVAX-III+) ( Message-ID: <zpOlf.1094$ES.614@fe05.lga>  @ > :  I'll have to check my cables - I had no idea.  I upgraded aI > :MicroVAX-II by swapping the CPU and memory cards for a uV-III+ and one H > :M7622 card, and now I'd like to add another memory.  I actually don't9 > :know which cable I've got however it seems to work OK.  > : B > :  There can't be too much difference in the cables - the header, > :connectors on the cards are all the same. >  > H >   The wrong cable can and often does lead to run-time hardware errors,J >   due to signal integrity issues with the speeds of the MS650-* modules.D >   I had no end of problems when I upgraded an old MicroVAX, and it >   tracked back to the cables.   J One more point. If your memory interconnect cable has more connectors thanK you have cards to connect, make sure you always use the two end connectors, 0 leaving the unused connector(s) in the "middle".   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Dec 2005 18:02:32 -0800 $ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>Y Subject: New salary and benefits data in this post Re: HP : Massive strike and protest ma B Message-ID: <1134007352.032422.71890@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>   David J Dachtera wrote:  > AEF wrote: > >  [...]  > > J > > At what point do the workers have enough and future "surpluses" can beH > > use to pay down the debt? Is 100K/yr enough for a bus driver? $200K? > B > Show me an hourly person making that pay range on straight time.    F Well, I can't quite reach $75K (which with the 33% raise gives $100K), but check out this:   9     http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/07/nyregion/07mta.html   D Check the link soon -- it is currently free but will cost $4 by Dec. 14.    Some excerpts:   Average total yearly pay:    Bus operator:    $62,551 Train operator:  $62,438 Train conductor: $53,900 Station agent:   $50,720   Now check out the benefits:    12 sick days/year   G A health plan that costs the MTA almost $400 million this year (roughly  $11,700 per worker)   ? Those "with 25 years of experience can retire at 55 and receive % pensions equal to half their salary."    Then there's this:  A "Mr. Dellaverson [labor relations head of the MTA] scoffed at the G union's proposal to revert to a far more expensive plan, one that would G allow workers with 20 years of experience to retire at age 50 with full G pensions. Such a plan was in place until 1973, and Mr. Dellaverson said C he believed it contributed to the fiscal crisis of the mid-1970's."   A OK, to be fair the MTA is making demands about combining jobs and F pushing one person train operation (OPTO) for some lines, but still, IF really don't think the union is being reasonable. OTOH, I haven't seenD any more mention of the 33% raise (to be rolled in over 3 years), so% maybe that is just extreme posturing.   G How many of us can retire at 55 and continue to make half their salary?   G How many riders and taxpayers know that some of their hard earned money F is being paid to workers who retired at 55? That could easily be 20 to( 30 years of half-salary pay for no work!  F David, I'm not saying all unions are all bad all the time, but here in( NYC I think they're being too demanding.   [...]    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 21:12:57 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>Y Subject: Re: New salary and benefits data in this post Re: HP : Massive strike and protes + Message-ID: <4397A4B8.E243FC08@comcast.net>   
 AEF wrote: >  > David J Dachtera wrote:  > > AEF wrote: > > >  > [...]  > > > L > > > At what point do the workers have enough and future "surpluses" can beJ > > > use to pay down the debt? Is 100K/yr enough for a bus driver? $200K? > > D > > Show me an hourly person making that pay range on straight time. > H > Well, I can't quite reach $75K (which with the 33% raise gives $100K), > but check out this:  > ; >     http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/07/nyregion/07mta.html  > F > Check the link soon -- it is currently free but will cost $4 by Dec. > 14.  >  > Some excerpts: >  > Average total yearly pay:  >  > Bus operator:    $62,551    I *KNEW* I was in the wrong gig!   > Train operator:  $62,438 > Train conductor: $53,900  H Metra employees can double those numbers, though they work a 15-hour dayB with four to six hours "off" between the morning and evening rush.   > Station agent:   $50,720  & Don't have CTA or Metra stat.'s handy.   > Now check out the benefits:  >  > 12 sick days/year   D Since some of them work the holidays, actual sick time is probably a/ negative number when you factor in no holidays.   I > A health plan that costs the MTA almost $400 million this year (roughly  > $11,700 per worker)   F Hhmmm... hardly the "equal to salary" numbers bandied about in another thread in recent memory.  A > Those "with 25 years of experience can retire at 55 and receive ' > pensions equal to half their salary."  >  > Then there's this: > C > "Mr. Dellaverson [labor relations head of the MTA] scoffed at the I > union's proposal to revert to a far more expensive plan, one that would I > allow workers with 20 years of experience to retire at age 50 with full I > pensions. Such a plan was in place until 1973, and Mr. Dellaverson said E > he believed it contributed to the fiscal crisis of the mid-1970's."  > C > OK, to be fair the MTA is making demands about combining jobs and H > pushing one person train operation (OPTO) for some lines, but still, IH > really don't think the union is being reasonable. OTOH, I haven't seenF > any more mention of the 33% raise (to be rolled in over 3 years), so' > maybe that is just extreme posturing.  > I > How many of us can retire at 55 and continue to make half their salary?  > I > How many riders and taxpayers know that some of their hard earned money H > is being paid to workers who retired at 55? That could easily be 20 to* > 30 years of half-salary pay for no work! > H > David, I'm not saying all unions are all bad all the time, but here in* > NYC I think they're being too demanding. >  > [...]   G Well, here in Chicago, the CTA now has one-person trains. The number of E assults increased markedly, but ridership subsequently fell such that G crime statistics returned to nearly their previous annual level (two or 6 more crew members per 6/8-car train), though the crime+ per-passenger-mile numbers remain elevated.   A ...and CTA is *STILL* crying that it needs more money while wages E continue their downward spiral, the transit workers union caves in to ; preserve jobs, and the CTA fat-cats get fatter by the hour.    "Now there's fairness for you!"    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 16:18:33 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 3 Subject: Re: OpenVMS/TCPware Upgrade Results (good) , Message-ID: <439751A7.1A089BFA@teksavvy.com>   Neil Rieck wrote: H > On Monday morning many people were commenting on how snappy the system
 > seemed.     A I think this is another argument in favour of VMS. Generally with G Windows, every upgrade brings along more bloatedness and requirement to B upgrade hardware to keep the same response time, but with VMS, the% engineers make the OS more efficient.   F And to me, the fact that the all-mighty Microvax II with 16 meg of ramE still runs a current VAX-VMS version is a testament to the engineers' ! discipline with regards to bloat.    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Dec 2005 15:54:02 -0800  From: bob@instantwhip.com 3 Subject: Re: OpenVMS/TCPware Upgrade Results (good) C Message-ID: <1133999642.761784.151260@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   A well my users run on OpenVMS 7.1-2 with 5.6 TCPware and Raxmaster B performance suite and they notice the difference all the time!  :)   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 20:33:02 -0500' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> 3 Subject: RE: OpenVMS/TCPware Upgrade Results (good) R Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB7733C8@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----9 > From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com]=20   > Sent: December 7, 2005 4:19 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 5 > Subject: Re: OpenVMS/TCPware Upgrade Results (good)  >=20 > Neil Rieck wrote: B > > On Monday morning many people were commenting on how snappy=20 > the system > > seemed.=20 >=20 >=20C > I think this is another argument in favour of VMS. Generally with = > Windows, every upgrade brings along more bloatedness and=20  > requirement toD > upgrade hardware to keep the same response time, but with VMS, the' > engineers make the OS more efficient.  >=20H > And to me, the fact that the all-mighty Microvax II with 16 meg of ramG > still runs a current VAX-VMS version is a testament to the engineers' # > discipline with regards to bloat.  >=20   Yep,  A One of my office lab servers has DEC 3000 with 64MB memory - runs % OpenVMS V8.2 with no problems at all.   F Imagine - a platform where they are continuing to focus on performance	 vs bloat.    :-)   G Hey, here 's a nice OpenVMS video which essentially emphasizes the same D thing about getting additional performance on the same hardware with just an OS upgrade: D http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/brochures/lutz/index.html (pdf and# html transcripts available as well)   A Extract - "Lutz strives to improve its reputation for exceptional > customer service as it continues to expand with new stores andC acquisitions. Over the past 15 years, OpenVMS has grown to meet the D needs of organizations. "Each new version of OpenVMS delivers fasterF performance, enabling Lutz to reduce costs as we grow. With our recentF upgrade, we significantly increased performance without purchasing new! hardware," comments Stiglbrunner.   F Definitely worth a tip-of-the-hat to the OpenVMS Engineering folks.=20  G P.s. if you experience enhancements like this, don't be shy - send some H cards and letters to the HP powers that be. Testimonials (even if only aC letter) are always appreciated. Also send copies to the third party @ folks as well if that positive experience involves them as well.   :-)    Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  4 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.   =20    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2005 05:03:24 GMT   From: John Santos <john@egh.com>3 Subject: Re: OpenVMS/TCPware Upgrade Results (good) + Message-ID: <w8Plf.10677$H84.8481@trnddc04>    Neil Rieck wrote: F > "Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER" <peter@langstoeger.at> wrote in message ( > news:43970194$1@news.langstoeger.at... > I >>In article <bsAlf.2140$PX2.235593@news20.bellglobal.com>, "Neil Rieck"    >><n.rieck@sympatico.ca> writes: >>M >>>I've got a two-CPU AlphaServer-DS20e with 2 GB installed and average about F >>>75 concurrent users between 8-17. Last Sunday night I performed the/ >>>following upgrades without telling my users:  >>> H >>>OS: from OpenVMS-7.3-1 to OpenVMS-7.3-2 (then installed 732-UPDATE-5) >> >>Where is the 732-PCSI-1 ? 4 >>Did you get the COPY error during UPDATE install ?@ >>How about the ACRTL and MANAGE V5 (UAF, DDTM, RTPAD, DCL V4) ? >> >>( >>>Stack: TCPware-5.6-2 to TCPware-5.7-1 >>D >>Strange. Since TCPware-5.7-1 is OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 only (V5.7-2 -  >>currently F >>in beta - is for V5 til V8), I'd expected that your users notice ;-) >>K >>I still have the SSH X11 problem with V5.7-1 (which I hadn't with V5.6-2)  >> >  > F > One of our projects required SWS-2.1 (Apache 2.0.52) which requires N > OpenVMS-7.3-2. Since TCPware-5.6-2 was not recommended for use with the new  > OS,   F :-(  Huh?   Who said that?  Why?  We've been running TCPware 5.6-2 forA several years with VMS 7.3-2, and Process hasn't said anything to  us about it.  E (I think there are problems or it just flat out doesn't work with VMS ( 8.2, but that's another issue entirely.)  I >    we pre-tested and then loaded TCPware-5.7-1 (which is available for  G > anonymous download to people who could not wait). We will upgrade to  3 > TCPware-5.7-2 as soon as we receive the shipment.      <snip>     --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Dec 2005 11:08:40 -0800 ' From: "toby" <toby@telegraphics.com.au>  Subject: Re: Pyhon perfomance?C Message-ID: <1133982520.120605.123790@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   ! Jean-Fran=E7ois Pi=E9ronne wrote:  > ... D > Also an AlphaServer 1000A 5/333 is not a very fast system, run the> > pystone benchmark on it and on any recent PC to be convince. > 5 > My station (XP1000 5/500) give 7200 pystones/second & > My PC PIV 3GHz 41000 pystones/second  C 1000A 5/300 (Linux again, Python 2.4.1) -- approx 2400 pystones/sec 8 P4HT 3.2GHz (Linux 2.6.12, Python 2.4.2) -- approx 39000   >=20 >=20 > > Thanks,  > > Ransom Fitch > >=20 >=20 >=20 > Jean-Fran=E7ois    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Dec 2005 11:13:55 -0800   From: vanbeneden.peter@gmail.com Subject: Re: Pyhon perfomance?C Message-ID: <1133982835.246315.142110@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    ljhiuzsheiuhziueh    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Dec 2005 11:52:40 -0800 # From: "RLFitch" <rlfitch@gmail.com>  Subject: Re: Pyhon perfomance?C Message-ID: <1133985160.368589.182160@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    http://rlfitch.dyndns.org    R Fitch    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Dec 2005 11:51:30 -0800 # From: "RLFitch" <rlfitch@gmail.com>  Subject: Re: Pyhon perfomance?C Message-ID: <1133985090.710680.275130@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   # "test_time.py" was a random choice.      $ prod sh prod python235< ----------------------------------- ----------- ------------5 PRODUCT                             KIT TYPE    STATE < ----------------------------------- ----------- ------------9 JFP AXPVMS PYTHON235 V1.35-0        Full LP     Installed < ----------------------------------- ----------- ------------ 1 item found   $  python "-V" Python 2.3.5   ----  pystones  -------------- $ python pystone.py * Pystone(1.1) time for 50000 passes = 19.932 This machine benchmarks at 2508.78 pystones/second -------------------   @ This seems comparable to what toby reported for the 1000A 5/300.    > Thanks for the info, looks like the Alpha/VMS may not have theF performance I hoped for with Python, though it does fine for my needs.   Ransom Fitch  ) p.s. please excuse the botched topic line    ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 16:04:11 -0500' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>  Subject: RE: Pyhon perfomance?R Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB773392@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message------ > From: RLFitch [mailto:rlfitch@gmail.com]=20   > Sent: December 7, 2005 2:52 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com   > Subject: Re: Pyhon perfomance? >=20% > "test_time.py" was a random choice.  >=20 >=20 > $ prod sh prod python235> > ----------------------------------- ----------- ------------7 > PRODUCT                             KIT TYPE    STATE > > ----------------------------------- ----------- ------------; > JFP AXPVMS PYTHON235 V1.35-0        Full LP     Installed > > ----------------------------------- ----------- ------------ > 1 item found >=20 > $  python "-V" > Python 2.3.5 >=20  > ----  pystones  -------------- > $ python pystone.py . > Pystone(1.1) time for 50000 passes =3D 19.934 > This machine benchmarks at 2508.78 pystones/second > -------------------  >=20B > This seems comparable to what toby reported for the 1000A 5/300. >=20@ > Thanks for the info, looks like the Alpha/VMS may not have theH > performance I hoped for with Python, though it does fine for my needs. >=20 > Ransom Fitch >=20   Ransom,   F Keep in mind that you are benchmarking on an approximately 10 year old1 Alpha server with a 3 year old copy of the OS.=20   E The fact that the OS and applications still run fine is a pretty good F testament to the long term life and re-useability of the system. As anC example, how many developers and/or hobbyists are using 10 year old  x86's?   :-)   
 Reference:A http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/os/openvms-release-history.html    Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  4 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 20:55:51 +0000 ; From: Gerald Marsh <marsh_family-spam.me.not@btconnect.com> = Subject: SDA> TCPIP SHO DEV/PORT=n/SOCK displays no BG device 8 Message-ID: <v7hep15bip7qciere53l2gubooup6fkhig@4ax.com>   Hello VMSers  F Here's a cracker which maybe should be targetted at the TCPIP brigade.   Scenario...   F OpenVMS process running happilly receiving messages via TCP/IP from NT box.  6 Process fails to respond to messages from NT system - + TCPIP> SHO DEV/PORT=n shows no such device.   ? After much web and newsgroups searching, a better command of...   D SDA>TCPIP SHO DEV/PORT=n/SOCK shows some big hex number and a socket. in FIN_WAIT_2. The BG device no longer exists.  D The OpenVMS listener can be STOP/ID'd and refuses to restart because3 of a"addrinuser" error - 48, if I recall correctly.   A After some random time the situation resolves itselfs - somewhere D between 42 mins (Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, springs to mind!)F but can go up to over an hour. No TPCIP Services timer seems to relateC to this and the supplier of the application - both OpenVMS and NT -  cannot explain it either!   ? My intellectual capacity cannot handle the well published state A diagrams and apply them to our situation.: The socket seems to be B awaiting a FIN from the other side and then should send it an ACK.> Some research of the relevant RFC's suggest the damn thing canC legitimately stay in the FIN_WAIT_2 state for ever as the app could A expect to process real info. Cannot undertand that it the app has  called a close()!   F The supplier - who is very responsive on this but a bit flummoxed - isB going to go through formal channels but I'm hoping to contact that? strange combination of a VMS Systems Manager and IP specialist!  (One of the many black arts??)     Keep theOpenVMS flag a'flying,   Gerald.    Gerald Marsh  4 gerald -at_Sign- cyfer -dot- demon -dot- co -dot- uk, (And I really get miffed having to do that!)   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 15:36:52 -0800 # From: Joe Bloggs <JBloggs@acme.com> A Subject: Re: SDA> TCPIP SHO DEV/PORT=n/SOCK displays no BG device 8 Message-ID: <mdsep1hagc82s94mleagvn948ttmc3alok@4ax.com>  0 On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 20:55:51 +0000, Gerald Marsh/ <marsh_family-spam.me.not@btconnect.com> wrote:     E >SDA>TCPIP SHO DEV/PORT=n/SOCK shows some big hex number and a socket / >in FIN_WAIT_2. The BG device no longer exists.    perhaps try this:    TCPIP> help disc dev ex   
 DISCONNECT   DEVICE_SOCKET      Examples*        TCPIP> DISCONNECT DEVICE_SOCKET BG3=           Interactively terminates the connection at  ... BG3    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 23:06:06 -0600 1 From: Marc Bissonnette <dragnet@internalysis.com> , Subject: Re: Shots fired on AA plane (Miami)@ Message-ID: <Xns972610E8F3CCdragnetinternalysisc@216.196.97.131>  ( Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> wrote in1 news:e03b52f61ffaafcc72db9f04eb204143@dizum.com:    # > It's Mezei.  What did you expect?  >  > FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS
 >    About
 > JF MEZEI > B > The "nobody" troll of rec.travel.air and "John Doe" troll of the > sci.space.* newsgroups.  >  > (Rev. August 3, 2005)  > 
 > Written by:  >  > Marc Bissonnette   > and  >  > Darrell Larose   <rolls eyes>  H Yeah, that's right: Both Darrel *and* myself got together, wrote a long-H winded rant and diatribe about JF Mezei and neither of us had the balls G to use our real email address, chose to use an anonymous remailer, but  I then had the brilliance to use not only our names, but our addresses and  * phone numbers in the body of the message.   D You know, Mikey, even for you, this is really pushing the limits of  simple and sheer stupidity.   J If you're going to forge someone else (this is the free clue part, coming A up, here), you're supposed to at least *try* to write like them.    H If you think you're revealing some big, deep, dark secret about posting I Darrel's and my home addresses and that we're going to start barricading  D the doors and purchasing large calibre firearms: (Another free clue G coming up: You're getting a real bargain, here): Darrel and I both own  A several domain names that we've registered with our real contact   information.  F You see, Mikey, I (and, I would assume, Darrel), don't have a problem J using our names to stand behind our words. You, of course, seem to have a B problem with that: In fact, you went as far as to childishly (and E frankly, quite poorly) spoof me via Dizum, not to mention inumerable  1 other people who you decide that you don't like.    I Of course, I am assuming that you suffer from some form of disorder that  G affects not only your basic intelligence, but your ability to perceive  F the blindingly obvious: Many, if not most, of the newsgroups that you G post your little rants and diatribes to have absolutely *zero* respect  A for and give *zero* credibility to items posted via an anonymous  > remailer, *especially* when they are attacks on other people.   F If I want to call you a moron, coward and generally all-around stupid I excuse for a human being, I'll use my own name and real email address to   do it.    J Mind you, I don't have a problem standing by my words: Something that you D just don't have the basic ability to even comprehend, much less do.    --   Marc BissonnetteB CGI / Database / Web Management Tools: http://www.internalysis.com1 Looking for a new ISP? http://www.canadianisp.com    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Dec 2005 22:05:48 -0800 # From: "tsiguy" <rocky@teksavvy.com> , Subject: Re: Shots fired on AA plane (Miami)C Message-ID: <1134021948.040823.165900@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    Hi Nomen Nescio,  5 Sounds like you and JF/Marc have a little history....   C The Handle you are using.... I'm currious as to what it means.  I'm ? fairly certain it's latin and by that, it could represent a few  different meanings.    Which does it represent?   A - Unknown Name   or   B - Power of Ignorance   or   C - Something else?   5 ....it without a doubt an interest choice of handles.    Rocky    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Dec 2005 10:35:08 -0800 , From: "rcyoung" <rcyoung@aliconsultants.com>F Subject: Re: Sixty (six-zero) VMS engineers *with* security clearance?C Message-ID: <1133980508.019756.311770@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   F Security clearances are tricky things. I worked in the DOD complex forF almost 20 yrs, and had a Q security clearance all that time. The pointF is, if you needed a security clearance at that level it took 18 monthsE to process and that was before 9/11. I assume it takes more time now, G and that assumes you don't need a higher clearance level. Now it is not D easy to simply "transfer" from one company to another. Clearances doF NOT transfer automatically with the individual. The only way is if youB go direct from one cleared position, to another, with virtually no> "dead time" in between. The only way I kept mine when changingG employers (and it still took a month for the transfer) was to stop work D in Denver on a Friday, and begin employment in South Carolina on the following Wednesday.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 19:30:05 GMT 1 From: Keith Parris <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com>  Subject: Re: V8.3 teaser/ Message-ID: <1LGlf.256$O97.80@news.cpqcorp.net>    Dave Froble wrote: > JF Mezei wrote: H >> Great stuff ! Do I get a % of total VMS profits because of this ? :-) >> :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) > : > Do you want to be in debt?  (more smilies that you used)  H This might imply that VMS business is not profitable to HP, which would  be far from the truth.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 18:46:44 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>  Subject: Re: V8.3 teaser0 Message-ID: <11pet0l73bs8tfa@corp.supernews.com>   Keith Parris wrote:  > Dave Froble wrote: >  >> JF Mezei wrote: >>I >>> Great stuff ! Do I get a % of total VMS profits because of this ? :-)  >>> :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)  >> >>; >> Do you want to be in debt?  (more smilies that you used)  >  > J > This might imply that VMS business is not profitable to HP, which would  > be far from the truth.   I certainly hope so.   Gotta keep JF reasonable.  :-)   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 17:56:24 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>  Subject: Re: V8.3 teaser( Message-ID: <ops1fzoavzzgicya@hyrrokkin>  G On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 18:46:44 -0500, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>    wrote:   > Keith Parris wrote:  >> Dave Froble wrote:  >> >>> JF Mezei wrote:  >>> J >>>> Great stuff ! Do I get a % of total VMS profits because of this ? :-) >>>> :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) >>>  >>> < >>> Do you want to be in debt?  (more smilies that you used)H >>   This might imply that VMS business is not profitable to HP, which   >> would be far from the truth.  >  > I certainly hope so. >   > Gotta keep JF reasonable.  :-) > K  From a margin point of view, I believe VMS is in the lead, of course, it    is only  doing $4x10**9 a year.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.682 ************************