1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 09 Dec 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 684       Contents: Re: DS10 and cost of PCI slots Re: error parsing 'BLOCK_SIZE'6 Re: Extreme backup slowdown after ECO updates (V7.3-1)6 Re: Extreme backup slowdown after ECO updates (V7.3-1)6 Re: Extreme backup slowdown after ECO updates (V7.3-1) Re: For Sale: 32CPU GS320 . Re: Help with Storageworks Drive/BA364 problem. Re: Help with Storageworks Drive/BA364 problem. Re: Help with Storageworks Drive/BA364 problem. Re: Help with Storageworks Drive/BA364 problem/ Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march today / Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march today / Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march today / Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march today / Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march today / Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march today " Re: M e z e i kooks out again....." Re: M e z e i kooks out again....." Re: M e z e i kooks out again.....P Re: New salary and benefits data in this post Re: HP : Massive strike and protes= Question about SPAWN/INPUT table in the DCL Dictionary manual = Re: Sixty (six-zero) VMS engineers *with* security clearance?  Re: Time problem  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2005 01:22:35 GMT   From: John Santos <john@egh.com>' Subject: Re: DS10 and cost of PCI slots * Message-ID: <v%4mf.5235$EB3.1904@trnddc09>   Alan Greig wrote:  >  >  > JF Mezei wrote:  >  >>G >> The BBC has recently launched a lawsuit against HP stating that this C >> concept is copyrighted by BBC's Tardis device and demands HP pay  >> royalties to the BBC. >  > K > Which reminds me, yesterday I popped down to the local Marks and Spencer  G > to look for the USB missiles (from another current thread) in store.  F > Didn't find them but I could buy a miniature Dalek. Didn't test the  > "exterminate" function.  > D A friend gave me one of those several years ago.  I think she got it@ from the beeb.  It's about 6" high an has a button on the front.B Cycles through a bunch of dialog: "Exterminate", "You are an enemyB of the Daleks", "Daleks rule supreme!", "Destroy the Doctor!", and$ the classic "Seek Locate Annihilate"  A I've pointed the little plumber's helper at many PC's and pressed B the button.  Some have ceased working, but it may only have been a temporal coincidence.      --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2005 19:55:10 +0100 & From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@decus.ch>' Subject: Re: error parsing 'BLOCK_SIZE' , Message-ID: <3vrdsfF16rt9fU1@individual.net>  / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: F > In article <BkIlf.270$O77.46@news.cpqcorp.net>, hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff > Hoffman) writes:   >  >    <snip>  / >>  Also invoke SYS$SYSTEM:SETFILENOMOVE.COM to F >>  keep the APB.EXE file from moving around if a defragger is in use. >>H >>  $ COPY/CONTIG SYS$COMMON:[SYSEXE]APB.EXE SYS$COMMON:[SYSEXE]/REPLACE# >>  $ @SYS$SYSTEM:SETFILENOMOVE.COM  >  > J > Apparently that's not the issue with my problem now, but that reminds meH > of a general question regarding SETFILENOMOVE.COM.  I remember readingJ > somewhere (DEFRAGMENT documentation) that, at least for the system disk,G > this procedure should be executed when the system disk is not in use, J > i.e. MOUNT it on another system, execute the procedure, then restore it B > to the system where it is used as the system disk.  Or am I not  > remembering this correctly.  >   I The reason for booting from another disk is that SET FILE/NOMOVE returns  G an access conflict error on a file which is open, and therefore cannot   change that attribute.  F Booting from another disk simply means that the relevant files on the ; target disk are not open by the system, so can be modified.    ------------------------------   Date: 8 Dec 2005 14:09:52 -0800 ( From: "Rich Jordan" <jordan@ccs4vms.com>? Subject: Re: Extreme backup slowdown after ECO updates (V7.3-1) B Message-ID: <1134079791.959453.92470@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>  F additional.  When we tried to backup/list the tape from last night, itF ran 3.5+ hours and managed to generate a list of only about 10% of theB files on the tape.  Similar behavior to the verify was noted: longA pauses with short bursts of direct I/O, and no errors logged.  We F verified that the backup.exe and backupshr.exe images were the correctB ones for the vms731_backup V3 ECO (they were), but reinstalled the( patch anyway.  Further testing underway.  ? So far it remains a mystery.  Guess we're going to have to call = software support (since the problem continued after DAT drive 8 replacement, its less likely its hardware at this point.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2005 18:08:45 -0500 % From: BRAD <bradhamilton@comcast.net> ? Subject: Re: Extreme backup slowdown after ECO updates (V7.3-1) ( Message-ID: <4398BCFD.10401@comcast.net>   Rich Jordan wrote:H > additional.  When we tried to backup/list the tape from last night, itH > ran 3.5+ hours and managed to generate a list of only about 10% of theD > files on the tape.  Similar behavior to the verify was noted: longC > pauses with short bursts of direct I/O, and no errors logged.  We H > verified that the backup.exe and backupshr.exe images were the correctD > ones for the vms731_backup V3 ECO (they were), but reinstalled the* > patch anyway.  Further testing underway. > A > So far it remains a mystery.  Guess we're going to have to call ? > software support (since the problem continued after DAT drive : > replacement, its less likely its hardware at this point.  H I think you said in your original post that there was an "onsite" while  applying the ECO's.   H Do you mean there was someone onsite?  If so, could the SCSI cable have 3 been jarred loose?  I know it's a long shot, but...   D I used to have similar equipment at my previous job; one SCSI cable I leading to a DAT drive was extremely long (5M); changing this cable to a  C shorter one reduced the number of errors logged for the tape drive.   E Assuming you have HW support, can you have Field Service replace the  F cable and/or the SCSI controller?  You've replaced the drive already.  Just thinking...   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Dec 2005 15:43:00 -0800 ( From: "Rich Jordan" <jordan@ccs4vms.com>? Subject: Re: Extreme backup slowdown after ECO updates (V7.3-1) C Message-ID: <1134085380.539014.187060@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Brad, E      its possible but highly unlikely.  No PM was done to the system; E it wasn't touched except for loading the CD that had the patch files, G and the drive is internal to the system.  In any case, HP Field Service D replaced the tape drive yesterday, and the replacement is having theD same problems.  If there'd been a loose cable, they almost certainly< would have 'fixed' it in the process of replacing the drive.  D      In any case I'd expect a cable/interface problem to log errors,6 and more than the few medium errors we've been seeing.  E      Thanks for responding.  We're putting in a support call tomorrow > AM; its pretty obvious this problem is not for remote solving.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2005 23:41:42 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> " Subject: Re: For Sale: 32CPU GS3200 Message-ID: <11pi2mund74iq03@corp.supernews.com>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:2 > In article <11peshdto8rbm94@corp.supernews.com>,, > 	Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes: >  >>Bill Gunshannon wrote: >>/ >>>In article <4397540B.DF8907C7@teksavvy.com>, 3 >>>	JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:  >>>  >>> 3 >>>>"David Turner, Island Computers US Corp" wrote:  >>>> >>>>E >>>>>Oh and get this... they replaced all their Tru64 stuff with PC s  >>>> >>>>L >>>>Could this be rephrased with "Instead of moving to Ia64, they moved from! >>>>Alpha to 64 bit 8086s" ??????  >>>  >>> K >>>He said PC's.  He didn't say x86-64.  If they went to a Windows solution / >>>it is very likely plain ordinary 32bit PC's.  >>>  >>>  >>> , >>>>One more reason to port VMS to the 8086. >>>  >>> G >>>Not necessarily.  They could have been running VMS when they were on F >>>Alpha. They weren't.  There is no reason to believe that if VMS ranH >>>on the 8086 they would have been any more likely to run it instead of >>>Tru64 or Windows. >>) >>Nor did he say windows.  He said PCs.    >  > J > Yes, but if he can make the leap of faith that it was x86-64 then surelyJ > I can make the very logical (and industry standard :-) assumption it was > to run windows.   I If you start following JF's leaps, don't expect to always find a landing   spot.   H >>                                     A Unix shop might find Linux, or J >>some of the BSD stuff you say is much better, a better fit than windows. >  > M > Actually, to replace a machine like that and having learned they were doing P > genome research I wouldn't be surprised if the "PC's" that replaced it weren'tP > set ujp as a Beowulf Cluster.  Which still leaves as much chance, if not more, > of it being 32bit x86's. >  >  > % >>The key question, were they HP PCs?  >  > J > Why would anyone pay the premium for that?  Especially after having been > screwed by HP on Tru64.   G Obviously my point.  This would be some of the business that they (HP)   just didn't care if they lost.     --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------   Date: 8 Dec 2005 12:53:53 -0800  From: mcbill20@yahoo.com7 Subject: Re: Help with Storageworks Drive/BA364 problem C Message-ID: <1134075233.435159.231290@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>   F Thanks for the info. I am not in front of the machine now so I'll haveE to check the console stuff tonight. As for the duplicate SCSI ID's, I F know that they are not the problem. I had replaced the RZ29's with theD newer drives, so the SCSI ID would be the same. Also, when I put the& drives in unused slots and then did an   MCR SYSMAN IO AUTOCONFIGURE   E the drives appeared as DKA200, etc. When I then tried to mount them I  got the error.  C You mentioned that the Qlogic controller must either be internal or F external only. Is this documented? The reason I ask is that this BA364D has been working fine for a couple of years, sometimes with a singleG drive and a TZ87, and other times with a couple of RZ29 drives. All the F drives show up as DKAnnn. I also have internal drives DKA0, DKA100 andG DKA1000. Again, this has been working fine for a long time and does not B log any errors. My second SCSI card is a  NCR 53C810. This card is8 connected to the CDROM drive and an external tape drive.  $ Here is the output from a SHO DEV D:  E Device                  Device           Error    Volume         Free 	 Trans Mnt F  Name                   Status           Count     Label        Blocks	 Count Cnt F DSA0:                   Mounted              0  AXPVMSSYS      6324876  928   1A $1$DKA0:      (SHAGGY)  ShadowSetMember      0  (member of DSA0:) A $1$DKA100:    (SHAGGY)  ShadowSetMember      0  (member of DSA0:) . $1$DKA200:    (SHAGGY)  Online              11. $1$DKA400:    (SHAGGY)  Online              11F $1$DKA600:    (SHAGGY)  Mounted             57  USER6          4681647    1   1F $1$DKA1000:   (SHAGGY)  Mounted              0  USER10         4818783  122   1. $1$DKB400:    (SHAGGY)  Online wrtlck        0F $1$DVA0:      (SHAGGY)  Mounted              0  SCRATCH           2849    1   1  G The DKA600 drive is the one I attempted to replace with the new drives. G The DKA200 and DKA400 appeared when I tried the new drives in the other B slots. All the errors were logged when attempting to mount the new2 drives. Also, here is the output from SHOW DEV PK:  D Device PKA0:, device type Qlogic ISP1020 SCSI port, is online, error
 logging is     enabled.  <     Error count                    0    Operations completed     389 1     Owner process                 ""    Owner UIC  [SYSTEM]0     Owner process ID        00000000    Dev Prot S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G,W ;     Reference count                0    Default buffer size    65535 0     Current preferred CPU Id       0    Fastpath       1   F Device PKB0:, device type NCR 53C810 SCSI, is online, error logging is enabled.  <     Error count                    0    Operations completed     180 1     Owner process                 ""    Owner UIC  [SYSTEM]0     Owner process ID        00000000    Dev Prot S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G,W ;     Reference count                0    Default buffer size        0      Thanks.  Bill   William Webb wrote: N > On 7 Dec 2005 20:24:52 -0800, mcbill20@yahoo.com <mcbill20@yahoo.com> wrote:J > > Hello all. I have a BA364-AB (four-high) Storageworks box connected toG > > a Qlogic ISP1020 SCSI card in a PWS500. I got this Storageworks box I > > with a few RZ29B-VA disks (in tan boxes, if that makes a difference). K > > Recently I purchased a 9.1 gig DS-RZ1EA-VW drive in a grey box on Ebay. H > > When I tried to mount the drive I saw a single flash of an amber LED8 > > and then got an error saying the medium was offline. > > K > > At first I just assumed I had gotten a bad drive. I then found a 36 gig H > > DS-RZ1FC-VW drive, also in a grey container. When I attempt to mountJ > > this one, I get a single flash of a green LED and then the same error. > > H > > Can anyone tell me what the problem is? I don't know if these drivesK > > are too new for my SCSI card, or for this BA364 box, or is it something 	 > > else?  > > J > > My understanding of SCSI was that it always should be both forward andK > > backward compatible but that you would just take a performance hit, say J > > if you connected an ultra-320 drive to a SCSI-1 or SCSI-2 bus. (I knowD > > that of course, you can't mix single-ended, HVD and LVD though.) > >  > > Thanks.  > > Bill > >  > >  > ? > You might be able to make it work, then again, you might not.  > = > Remember, neither S in SCSI represents the word "standard".  > E > I haven't used your particular enclosure, but I have used blue-gray G > drives (DS-RZ1xx-VW of some type) and green drives (RZ2n-VA) together  > in a BA356 shelf.  > E > In fact I have some running now in one of the systems here at work, E > but they're hanging off an HSZ or HSJ instead of a Qlogic so it's a ! > different situation altogether.  > G > The most frequent shelf error if people connect an external enclosure E > to an onboard SCSI (I know, this isn't your situation) is that they  > accidentally duplicate > 9 > 1.  I assume the Qlogic is only running external stuff.  > F > AFAIK anything that's 1020-based won't do both internal and external, > devices.  One, or the other, but not both. > 3 > 2.  What HBAs do you see from the console prompt?  > ; > 3.  What disk devices do you see from the console prompt?  > & > 4.  What is the terminal velocity... >  > WWWebb > E > NOTE: This email address is only used for noncommerical VMS-related  > correspondence. E > All unsolicited commercial email will be deemed to be a request for : > services pursuant to the terms and conditions located at% > http://bellsouthpwp.net/w/e/webbww/    ------------------------------  * Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 17:21:06 -0600 (CST)* From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda)7 Subject: Re: Help with Storageworks Drive/BA364 problem 2 Message-ID: <05120817210608_2038971B@antinode.org>   From: mcbill20@yahoo.com  E > You mentioned that the Qlogic controller must either be internal or * > external only. Is this documented? [...]  H    QLogic tends to say that you can use any two SCSI connectors, but notH all three.  VMS tends to say that you can use any one SCSI connector.  ID can't recall actually using internal and external together, but thatF could be just a memory problem.  I may have done it long ago.  I guess< that I have too great a SCSI-card-to-drive ratio these days.  F > Device PKA0:, device type Qlogic ISP1020 SCSI port, is online, error > logging is >     enabled.  F    Note that a genuine KZPBA-CX (with an ISP1040B chip) _says_ ISP1020, in this report.  Trust no one, I always say.  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode-org     Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 20:44:25 -0500- From: William Webb <william.w.webb@gmail.com> 7 Subject: Re: Help with Storageworks Drive/BA364 problem I Message-ID: <8660a3a10512081744i11d0f35bl4b9c47e26b57427b@mail.gmail.com>   7 On 12/8/05, Steven M. Schweda <sms@antinode.org> wrote:  > From: mcbill20@yahoo.com > G > > You mentioned that the Qlogic controller must either be internal or , > > external only. Is this documented? [...] > J >    QLogic tends to say that you can use any two SCSI connectors, but notJ > all three.  VMS tends to say that you can use any one SCSI connector.  IF > can't recall actually using internal and external together, but thatH > could be just a memory problem.  I may have done it long ago.  I guess> > that I have too great a SCSI-card-to-drive ratio these days. > H > > Device PKA0:, device type Qlogic ISP1020 SCSI port, is online, error > > logging is > >     enabled. > H >    Note that a genuine KZPBA-CX (with an ISP1040B chip) _says_ ISP1020. > in this report.  Trust no one, I always say. > J > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > 6 >    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98185 >    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode-org  >    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547  >   ! Don't mind Steven, he has issues.    : ^ )   L You don't have a second Qlogic card, do you?  it would be real interesting = to= get around that internal/external thing and see what happens.    WWWEbb --C NOTE: This email address is only used for noncommerical VMS-related  correspondence. C All unsolicited commercial email will be deemed to be a request for 8 services pursuant to the terms and conditions located at# http://bellsouthpwp.net/w/e/webbww/    ------------------------------  * Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 19:53:13 -0600 (CST)* From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda)7 Subject: Re: Help with Storageworks Drive/BA364 problem 2 Message-ID: <05120819530514_2038971B@antinode.org>  - From: William Webb <william.w.webb@gmail.com>   # > Don't mind Steven, he has issues.   >    AIIEEE!!!  _Magazines_ have _issues_.  _I_ have PROBLEMS!!!      SMS.    ------------------------------   Date: 8 Dec 2005 16:31:52 -0800 $ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>8 Subject: Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march todayC Message-ID: <1134088312.911646.172950@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    David J Dachtera wrote:  > AEF wrote: > >  > > David J Dachtera wrote:  > > > AEF wrote: > > > >  > > > > David J Dachtera wrote:  > > > > > AEF wrote: > > > > > > # > > > > > > David J Dachtera wrote:  > > > > > > > AEF wrote: > > > > > > > > ' > > > > > > > > David J Dachtera wrote:  > > > > > > > > > Lurker wrote:  > > > > > > > > > > C > > > > > > > > > > "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> wrote in message P > > > > > > > > > > news:1132844010.172444.16400@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com... [...]  > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > [snip]S > > > > > > > > OK, yes, there is a big surplus due to real estate taxes. But it is N > > > > > > > > temporary and the MTA has a LOT of debt to pay down: billions.
 > > > > > > > 1 > > > > > > > Why have those debts not been paid?  > > > > > > 4 > > > > > > I don't know but your dodging the issue.	 > > > > > 7 > > > > > Nope. Fiscal responsibility *IS* _THE_ issue!   G No, were talking about unions and what's fair. The union is only making G the fiscal situation even worse. If the MTA were to accede to all their D demands then the MTA would be fiscally irresoponsible, which is what you're complaining about.   D Damn it, do you have any idea how high taxes are here in NYC? Tolls?G Gasoline? I just paid $2.399 for 87-octane BP gas (which includes taxes E that go to these generous pensions for other city workers, no doubt). ! And I'll be working well past 55.    > > > > M > > > > So something good happens to help the situation and instead of paying ? > > > > down the debts you think the workers should get it all.  > > >  > > > Never said that. > > / > > Not explicitly or exactly but close enough.  >  > Not even close.  >  > > You thing the raise is fair  > $ > Never said that. Check the record.  G No, you never explicitly said the raise is fair, but everything you say @ is about how the union is only trying to get its fair shake, no?   > F > > and you thing the $450 million towards the pensions is not enough. > 0 > Never said that either. IT WAS A QUESTION!!!!! >  > > >  > > > > The gov't L > > > > either by being clever, or more likely by blind luck, has managed toO > > > > get more money for the MTA to pay its debts. And you want them to throw ) > > > > that away to overpay the workers.  > > >  > > > Never said that, either. > > # > > You want them to give the raise  > G > Never said that, either. Check the record. I asked questions, period.  > ( > > which means that much more debt goes> > > unpaid. You also seem to think that no salary is too high, > , > Never said that, either. Check the record.  G David, look. You are not being clear. I make points and you respond and D I make reasonable inferences as to what those responses mean and youA then say you never said that. Well, what the hell are you saying? F Please do try to be clear. I made the point that the NYC transit unionD is being unreasonable in its demands. That is my point. And you keepD saying things in favor of said union. What should I infer from that?B That you think the union is only being fair, but you claim the 33%D raise is not fair, but that the union is being fair in demading said& raise? You are contradicting yourself.  C DO NOT TELL ME TO REREAD WHAT YOU WROTE. I AM NOT GOING TO DO THAT.   G I said that a 33% raise was highly unreasonable and that threatening an G illegal strike that would cause massive problems for millions of people D was a bad thing to do. Do you agree or not? Somewhere in this threadC you said that threatening an illegal strike is a last resort. Well, ! here, I'll dig up an exact quote:    [pasted quote]: > > So threatening to do an illegal strike is negotiating? > H > Try to grasp this: when negotiating fails, methods of last resort comeC > into play, illegal/unconstitutional legislation not withstanding.  > 9 > Get it that time, or do you need further clarification?  [end pasted quote]  D So this doesn't imply that you think an illegal strike is okay? ThisF doesn't imply that you think the union is in the right demanding a 33%@ raise? No, you didn't say the latter explicitly, but that's what& they're threatening to strike about!!!  + Yes, I need clarification of your position.    > > so yes, you J > > didn't say to overpay the workers, but it looks like overpaying to me! > 
 > Opinion.  < So tell me what you think a fair wage is. Put up or shut up!   >  > > >   > > > > How is THAT responsible? > > > > N > > > > At what point do the workers have enough and future "surpluses" can beL > > > > use to pay down the debt? Is 100K/yr enough for a bus driver? $200K? > > > F > > > Show me an hourly person making that pay range on straight time. > > > 7 > > > > Would you find a million a year reasonable pay?  > > > " > > > Ask a CEO the same question. > > " > > Two wrongs don't make a right. > E > Never said it did. I was redirecting your query so as to suggest an  > alternative paradigm.   " No, you were dodging the question.     [...] N > > > > They are not shirking the pension issue. In fact, the MTA said it will: > > > > use almost half of the "surplus" for the pensions. > > > I > > > Yet, the question still stands: Does that cover the entirety of the ' > > > "deferred pension fund deposits"?  > > C > > Fine. Let's say it doesn't. How does a 33% raise help cover the  > > pensions? Hmmmmm?  > A > Never said it did, but did say that the pension deposits are an E > outstanding obligation (read: "debt") and so are not negotiable (at I > least not with labor or labor's collective bargaining agent; that would % > be between the MTA and the courts).   D Yep, dodging the question again. The question is about the raise and" you digress to debts and pensions.   >  > > >  > > > > Giving the workersJ > > > > 33% increase will make all the debts even worse, meaning even moreL > > > > wasted money to pay down interest, which will cause a calamity laterJ > > > > on. Sooner or later, the riders and taxpayers are going to have toM > > > > cough up additional money because of the additional interest on debt. 3 > > > > The workers are trying to screw the public.  > > > I > > > The workers are trying to get a fair shake. It's the transit agency 6 > > > management that's trying to screw the citizenry. > > F > > Wage-wise and pension-wise I think they are already getting a fair
 > > shake. > @ > Opinion. See the previous reference to history and competitive > comparison and analysis.   What reference?   I > > > > Actually, by giving a 33% raise, THAT is shirking the issue. That 1 > > > > doesn't help their pension find one iota.  > > ! > > > Again, the question stands.  > > I > > But it's THE UNION who is asking for the 33% raise so it is THE UNION ! > > that is "shirking the issue".  > G > No, they're not: they're addressing it directly. I've no way to know, I > but I would think that if the MTA could be held accountable for failure J > to pay into the pension fund, labor could be satiated with less generousH > increase in pay scales. (Since MTA is shirking *ITS* responsibility toJ > pay into the pension fund, and apparently canot be trusted to honor thatH > obligation, labor may be seeking to get the money directly in the "pay > envelope", instead.)  C They're addressing the pension problem directly by demanding a huge B raise and by aiming for the old 20/50 pension? I don't follow thatB logic. The pension is absurdly generous to begin with. And no, theG union will continue to demand the pension that you say the MTA can't be E trusted to deliver on top of that. Remember, it is the taxpayers, the < toll payers, and the riders who must come up with the bucks.  B The MTA has been increasingly shorted by the city and the state inE recent years, both of which used to subsidize the MTA to some extent. 3 Because of this the workers should get a 33% raise?   E And I really don't follow your logic of giving workers even more than D they should be getting in the first place for any reason. Though you, are actually contradicting yourself on this.   > - > > Trust me, the MTA does not want to give a  > > 33% raise to any worker. > H > Few employers would, but most employers would recognize that past faux> > pas would be met with stiff demands during the next round of5 > negotiations when contracts come due to be renewed.   G So after all this apologizing for the union demanding the 33% raise you - STILL don't admit supporting them getting it?    [...] * > > > > > Life is challenge. Deal with it. > > > > 9 > > > > So because of that it's okay for workers to abuse  > > >  > > > ...correction: assert... > > >  > > > > their union power? > > > N > > > If that's what it takes to ensure that employers are negotiating in goodE > > > faith, that's why the system is the way it is; Say, "leverage".  > > > ("leverage" != "debt") > > / > > Then it wouldn't be abuse, but it is abuse.  > I > Yes. Abuse of labor by management, which is what unions seek to prevent H > since the judicial branch cannot be counted on to do so in a timely or% > effective manner, for many reasons.   D And how is the MTA not negotiating in good faith? By not acceding to unreasonable demands?    >  > > > ( > > > > Are you just pushing my buttons? > > > J > > > I'm trying to get you past your prejudices so you'll turn your brainD > > > back on think it though from the other person's point of view. > > J > > OK. Hey, I'd like a 33% raise too! Maybe I should threaten to sabotage) > > public utilities and demand my raise!  > > > You can expect the black helicopters any time now, I'm sure.  C Please explain this bit with black helicopters. I have no idea what  this means.   N > > > > Fine. I'll do whatever I can in my power to stop this nonsense and letM > > > > THEM deal with it. Hey, you justify their actions. Why don't you tell : > > > > THEM that life is a challenge and to deal with it? > > > I > > > They *ARE* dealing with it!!! That's what negotiation is all about!  > > : > > So threatening to do an illegal strike is negotiating? > H > Try to grasp this: when negotiating fails, methods of last resort comeC > into play, illegal/unconstitutional legislation not withstanding.   B I see, so when negotiating fails to produce undeserved riches fromG management (acutally, said riches come out of the pockets or taxpayers, G toll payers, and riders), and illegal strike punishing the citizenry is  justified. Please explain.  9 > Get it that time, or do you need further clarification?   A I'd like further clarification, but only if you can give straight  answers.  @ Why does the union deserve a 33% raise on 60,000 / year + health; benefits and incredibly generous pensions? I want a direct, E to-the-point answer. If you dodge the question again with things like B CEO pay and last resort and fiscal responsibility, I'm bowing out.  E What would a reasonable deal be for transit workers in NYC. Give some B specifics. $70,000 /year? $200,000 /year? A double pension after 2 years experience? You tell me.  G How much sick time is reasonable? 12 days? 100 days? Hell, why don't we F just pay them to stay home and be sick all year round? We'll power the9 subways Flinstone-style! Life is a challenge, as you say.   G Tell me why hard-working taxpayers, toll payers, and riders should give E their hard-earned money to transit workers living on pensions at half  or full pay for 20 to 30 years.   C Please provide some real, non-cryptic, non-dodging answers to these  questions or I'm outta here!   ------------------------------  * Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 18:55:21 -0600 (CST)* From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda)8 Subject: Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march today2 Message-ID: <05120818552119_2038971B@antinode.org>  $ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>   X-Newsgroups: comp.os.vms                ^^^^^^^^^^^    > [...] 6 > No, were talking about unions and what's fair. [...] > [...]   !    Perhaps you meant "Now, 'ere".    > [...] or I'm outta here!      Promises, promises.  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode-org     Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------   Date: 8 Dec 2005 17:05:51 -0800 $ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>8 Subject: Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march todayB Message-ID: <1134090351.634040.18590@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   Steven M. Schweda wrote:& > From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> >  > X-Newsgroups: comp.os.vms  >               ^^^^^^^^^^^  > 	 > > [...] 8 > > No, were talking about unions and what's fair. [...]	 > > [...]  > # >    Perhaps you meant "Now, 'ere".   ? Don't get it. Yes, I suffered from a brief lapse of "apostrophe  disease" and I do apologize.   >  > > [...] or I'm outta here! >  >    Promises, promises.  G Obviously an off night for you. Your zingers on the zip thread were far 	 superior.    ------------------------------   Date: 8 Dec 2005 17:33:14 -0800 $ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>8 Subject: Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march todayB Message-ID: <1134091994.142855.84700@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>   Steven M. Schweda wrote:& > From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> >  > X-Newsgroups: comp.os.vms  >               ^^^^^^^^^^^  > 	 > > [...] 8 > > No, were talking about unions and what's fair. [...]	 > > [...]  > # >    Perhaps you meant "Now, 'ere".  >  > > [...] or I'm outta here! >  >    Promises, promises.    / Hey, is this any way to treat your biggest fan?    "Call off the cloud seeding."   
    I love it!   A > > I think you need to describe the matching semantics you want.   J >    I think "[n]ormal VMS usage" covers it pretty well.  Which news group > is this?  Am I lost?      Too much!!!  < One question though: Why the square brackets around the 'n'?   ------------------------------  * Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 20:08:03 -0600 (CST)* From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda)8 Subject: Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march today2 Message-ID: <05120820080304_2038971B@antinode.org>  $ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>  L > >    I think "[n]ormal VMS usage" covers it pretty well.  Which news group > > is this?  Am I lost?   [...]   > > One question though: Why the square brackets around the 'n'?  E    A direct quotation would have been "Normal VMS usage", but in this H context, the "N" should be lower-case.  Thus, "normal" would have been aD misquotation, and "Normal" would have been incorrect capitalization.  H    What would you expect from someone who still thinks that "quote" is a- verb, and "quotation" the corresponding noun?   G    I'll admit that in a news group populated largely by "hobbiests" who D think that "lose" is spelled "loose", I don't fit in well.  I try toG keep a screaming sock close at hand when checking the Info-VAX e-mail.  ? (It's for the neighbors' benefit.)  (Or should that be "Its'"?)       SMS.    ------------------------------   Date: 8 Dec 2005 19:19:23 -0800 $ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>8 Subject: Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march todayC Message-ID: <1134098363.495932.107350@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    Steven M. Schweda wrote:& > From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> > N > > >    I think "[n]ormal VMS usage" covers it pretty well.  Which news group > > > is this?  Am I lost? >  > [...]  > @ > > One question though: Why the square brackets around the 'n'? > G >    A direct quotation would have been "Normal VMS usage", but in this J > context, the "N" should be lower-case.  Thus, "normal" would have been aF > misquotation, and "Normal" would have been incorrect capitalization.   Oh, of course! ... Silly me.   > J >    What would you expect from someone who still thinks that "quote" is a/ > verb, and "quotation" the corresponding noun?  > I >    I'll admit that in a news group populated largely by "hobbiests" who F > think that "lose" is spelled "loose", I don't fit in well.  I try toH > keep a screaming sock close at hand when checking the Info-VAX e-mail.A > (It's for the neighbors' benefit.)  (Or should that be "Its'"?)  > 	 >    SMS.   B Now you're back in form! I'll take the discussion with David aboutE unions offline. Everyone else has probably lost interest in it. If he % posts about it again, I'll email him.    ------------------------------   Date: 8 Dec 2005 18:27:02 -0800 4 From: "Gregory Morrow" <gregorymorrow@earthlink.net>+ Subject: Re: M e z e i kooks out again..... C Message-ID: <1134095222.779570.251410@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    Nomen Nescio wrote:   0 > nobody (JF Mezei) <nobody@nobody.org> trolled: >  > >Cyrus Afzali wrote:D > >> obviously don't. Murder is a crime and is in no way tied to the8 > >> shooting of a person by a law enforcement official. > >  > > I > >For a very long time, south african police "did their work" by killing J > >blacks. It wasn't considered murder because they were police and it wasH > >their job. Then, they awoke and realised that it was unacceptable for* > >police to indiscriminatly shoot people. > > I > >The USA has downgraded itself to accept a police state mentality where K > >people accept that police shoot first and ask questions later. And while J > >it was for a long time a leader in human rights, it now refuses the redJ > >cross full access to its concentration camps, has a vice president thatK > >refuses to agree to a CIA ban on torture, and yet this is all supportred  > >by american citizens. > >  > > G > >For americans, it may not be considered "murder", but it is for many  > >people outside the USA. > ( > "The USA has downgraded itself" Mezei? > "police state mentality"?  > "its concentration camps"? >  > FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS
 >    About
 > JF MEZEI > B > The "nobody" troll of rec.travel.air and "John Doe" troll of the > sci.space.* newsgroups.  >  > (Rev. August 3, 2005)  > 
 > Written by:  >  > Marc Bissonnette > 1725 Beachburg Road  > Beachburg, Ontario  K0J 1C0  > (613) 582-70561 > d r a g n e t @ i n t e r n a l y s i s . c o m  > http://www.internalysis.com  > http://www.canadianisp.com >  > and  >  > Darrell Larose > 121 Northwestern Ave > Ottawa, ON K1Y 0M1 > (613) 725-0245% > c o t a 3 4 8 @ r o g e r s . c o m 3 > a d 6 0 7 @ F r e e N e t . C a r l e t o n . C A  >  >  > 1.  Who is JF Mezei? > I > Jean-Francois Mezei is the worst netkook and megatroll to have ever hit L > rec.travel.air and various other usenet newsgroups.  He is also one of the+ > longest running trolls in usenet history.  > L > ***WARNING:  JF MEZEI IS A ROGUE CANCELLER.  HE FORGES THE NAME AND E-MAILD > ADDRESS OF USENET POSTERS HE DOES NOT AGREE WITH AND CANCELS THEIR > MESSAGES.*** > K > If you participate in the same newsgroups he does, you should monitor the M > control.cancel newsgroup.  If you find that he has cancelled your messages,  > forward a copies of them to:% > a b u s e @ t e k s a v v y . c o m % > a b u s e @ a s t r a w e b . c o m % > a b u s e @ t e r a n e w s . c o m  > % > See also http://www.usenetabuse.com  > $ > 2.  How long has he been trolling? >  > For well over a decade.  >  > 3.  Where does he live?  >  > Montreal, Quebec, Canada >  > Jean-Francois Mezei  > 86 Harwood Gate  > Beaconsfield, QC H9W3A3  > (514) 992-0474 > (514) 695-8259 > # > His current e-mail addresses are: ) > j f m e z e i @ t e k s a v v y . c o m + > j f m e z e i @ v a x i n a t i o n . c a  > + > His website is http://www.vaxination.ca .  > , > 4.  What makes him such a malicious troll? > J > His trolling is constant, repetitious, relentless.  Once he invades yourL > newsgroup he will stay for decades, troll around the clock, day in and dayM > out, every day of the year, for years and years on end.  He does not listen L > to pleas to stop, he does not listen to anything anyone tells him, he doesF > not pay attention when the misinformation/disinformation he posts isK > corrected, he just goes right on trolling year in, year out like a little M > child holding his ears closed while yelling "I can't hear you, I can't hear  > anything you say!" >  > 5.  What does he troll about?  > H > His favorite subjects are USA-bashing and anything to do with sex.  HeK > hates the USA and Americans and will hijack any thread and turn it into a J > USA-bashing fest.  If he can't do that then he'll just start making lewd > posts. > & > 6.  What does he hate about the USA? > I > Everything!  He is part of a larger group of Canadian trolls who have a E > visceral hatred of the USA, motivated by envy mostly.  The USA is a J > happier, better, more successful version of their country and they can'tH > stand it.  Some of JF's favorite troll bait is "the Bush Regime", "theM > Cheney/Rumsfeld/Wolfowitz axis of evil", "Americans are brainwashed", "Cars = > are evil", "SUVs are evil", "all Americans are stupid" etc.  > % > 7.  What about his sexual trolling?  > G > Ah, that is JF at his trolling best.  No sexual topic is too bizarre. K > Among his favorites are child sexuality, masturbation, women's genitalia, M > sex toys, circumcision, the sex lives of Americans (of course) ... the list 
 > is endless.  >  > 8.  Circumcision???  > K > Yes, JF trolled the circumcision newsgroups for years.  He still likes to K > insert circumcision into his trolling every now and then.  Apparently, JF K > was traumatized as a child because his parents, poor Hungarian immigrants I > to Canada, left him uncircumcised when he was born, as is the custom in M > most of the world.  Growing up in Canada where male infant circumcision was K > prevalent at the time, he was psychologically scarred (so he claims).  As J > soon as he could he arranged to get himself snipped, and then joined theI > brigades of circumcision proselytizers in the newsgroups advocating the L > joys of a free willy.  His main argument is how much better he was able toL > masturbate after getting circumcised without that "pesky foreskin" gettingH > in the way of his enjoyment, and he has made it his mission in life to! > spread the circumcision gospel.  > J > 9.  What's his interest in child sexuality?  That sounds kind of freaky. > K > Well, everything having to do with Mezei *is* freaky.  Among the subjects I > dear to his heart are the genitals of little boys and girls, especially K > little boy's foreskins (and how tight they are) and little girls' hymens. L > He is also a tireless activist and advocate that children should be taughtL > to masturbate early on so that they don't grow up "sexually repressed like
 > Americans".  > G > He also counsels all parents of boys that they constantly check their L > little boys' penises and foreskins frequently to ensure a good fit, properM > movement, and that they be able to masturbate with no problems.  Utopia for E > JF would be a world full of parents manipulating their little boys' 
 > penises. > J > 10.  Ewww!  This guy is sounding more and more disgusting by the minute!$ > Are you sure about all this stuff? > M > Yes, you can check the google archives for yourself.  There's over a decade " > full of Mezei trolling in there. > J > 11.  How can I find all that out, doesn't he change aliases all the time > like all trolls do?  > M > Of course!  See the appendix below for a list of many of his known trolling 
 > aliases. > I > 12.  So where does this guy get so much time to troll, doesn't he work?  > M > Ha ha ha!  JF hasn't worked a day in his life!  He's an adult baby, a grown J > man who still lives at home with mommy and sleeps all day and trolls theL > newsgroups all night.  In his free time when he isn't trolling he likes toM > ride his bike down to Dorval Airport and race the planes down the runway in  > his bike.  > ; > 13.  That seems strange, is he mentally ill or something?  > J > Bingo!  JF is a boy in a grown man's body.  Psychologically he never gotK > past the age of 13 and got stuck in a world of bathroom humor (i.e. "pull M > my finger!") and locker room antics that he has never been able to outgrow.  > K > 14.  Speaking of locker rooms, I heard he has a sexual fetish about them,  > is that true?  > I > Yes!  JF goes to the gym not to work out but to watch men in the locker L > room.  He loves to post about the male sexual organs he has seen in lockerJ > rooms over the years, especially his unnatural obsession with foreskins.L > He stalks the men in locker rooms trying to measure how much foreskin theyE > have, or how little is left if they have been circumcised.  He gets 5 > extremely excited when he spots a case of phimosis.  > I > 15.  Oh my Gawd, this guy is nuts!  He should be locked up in an insane 	 > asylum!  > K > Yep, JF is certifiably insane.  He lives in a black helicopter / tin foil L > hat world where others are out to get him.  The key to understanding JF isG > that he sees himself as a VICTIM.  To JF the world is out to get him, : > especially the USA.  Victimhood is what JF is all about. > M > What seems to have sent him over the edge was when the Canadian rail system H > was "killed", in his words.  He used to be a major train nut, spottingL > trains, writing down their numbers and chasing them down at the train yardM > like a good freak.  Then he turned his attention to aviation.  Major events J > that made him fall head first deep into the abyss were the bankruptcy ofM > Canadian Airlines and their subsequent takeover by Air Canada (whom he sees G > as evil).  So paranoid is he that when an Air Canada plane crashed he H > claimed that Air Canada employees went lurking about in the night withM > buckets of white paint to cover up the Air Canada markings.  He saw that as L > symbolic of a cover up of the crash investigation.  He has never recovered > from this. > 8 > 16.  Where else does he hang out, I want to avoid him! > H > His main haunt on usenet is comp.os.vms, a newsgroup dedicated to someG > ancient, arcane, obsolete piece of vax crapware that nobody has taken J > seriously for decades.  JF hangs out there with other misfits and socialK > dropouts who share his psychological traumas, crying for the good old vax & > days of yore.  It's really pathetic! > # > 17.  Where else does he hang out?  > K > can.internet.highspeed, alt.cellular.fido, and a few other geeky computer I > groups.  For a while after the Shuttle Columbia disaster he invaded the C > sci.space groups, sci.space.shuttle in particular, and trolled it L > relentlessly with the anti-American, conspiracy theory crap he's so famousI > for.  But they ran him off that group and he had to go crawling back to A > comp.os.vms with his tail between his legs, licking his wounds.  > K > 18.  It sounds like comp.os.vms is the only group he respects and doesn't  > troll. > K > Pretty much.  For a megatroll like JF it's impossible not to troll, so he F > slips in troll bait every now and then, but by and large he respectsC > comp.os.vms, and, more importantly, he tries to hide his trolling I > activities from them so they won't find out what a major netkook he is.  > K > 19.  Wow, sounds like he should be exposed so they will know what kind of  > psycho he is!  > G > Exactly.  Feel free to post all his trolls to comp.os.vms.  And while M > you're at it post them to can.internet.highspeed and alt.cellular.fido too. ; > And to alt.usenet.kooks, a group for the likes of JF, and  > news.admin.net-abuse.usenet. > 6 > 20.  What else can I do?  Is there an abuse address? > J > Yes, you should send complaints along with copies of his troll posts to: > % > a b u s e @ t e k s a v v y . c o m + > d n s a d m i n @ t e k s a v v y . c o m % > a b u s e @ t e r a n e w s . c o m % > a b u s e @ a s t r a w e b . c o m  > ! > also http://www.usenetabuse.com  > 9 > You can also call directly, troll free, 1-877-779-1575.  >  > TekSavvy Solutions Inc.  > 330 Richmond St., Suite 205  > Chatham, ON, Canada 	 > N7M 1P7  > L > And feel free to distribute this FAQ freely.  Post it to newsgroups, emailJ > it to people, you may host it at your own website, send it to newspapersL > and magazines that do Internet articles or anything to do with Montreal or > Canada, etc. >  >  > *** APPENDIX *** > I > List of some of the many trolling aliases used by Mezei over the years. J > This is only a partial list, he has so many it's impossible to compile a > full list. > ) > j f m e z e i @ t e k s a v v y . c o m 9 > j f m e z e i . s p a m n o t @ t e k s a v v y . c o m # > j f m e z e i @ i s t o p . c o m 3 > j f m e z e i . s p a m n o t @ i s t o p . c o m ) > j f m e z e i @ v i d e o t r o n . c a / > j f m e z e i @ v l . v i d e o t r o n . c a 7 > n o s p a m . j f m e z e i @ v i d e o t r o n . c a = > " j f m e z e i " @ v i d e o t r o n . c a [ n o s p a m ]  > , > nobody <n o b o d y @ n o b o d y . c o m>, > nobody <n o b o d y @ n o b o d y . n e t>, > nobody <n o b o d y @ n o b o d y . o r g>. > nobody <n o b o d y @ n o b o d y . i n f o>, > nobody <n o b o d y @ n o b o d y . i n t>. > nobody <n o b o d y @ n o t h i n g . n i l>( > nobody <n o b o d y @ n u l l . d e v> > % > Janice Staples <jstaples@noaol.com> + > Lorenna Bobbit <lbobbit@ginsu_knives.com> ) > Lando Calrisian <Lcalrisian@empire.org>  > muklak <muklak@eskimo.net> > Sheep skin <sheep@station.au> % > snowy squirrel <squirrel@nest.tree> + > Conspiracy Theory <conspiracy@theory.org> ( > Lou Raccoon <L.Raccoon@wilderness.org>& > Flapping Labias <flabia@anatomy.org>' > Throbbing vulva <t.vulva@anatomy.org>  > Twin Gonads <two@gonads.com>' > Loose Scrotum <l.scrotum@anatomy.org> $ > Raised Organ <R.Organ@anatomy.org>& > Popped Cherry <P.Cherry@anatomy.org>/ > Monica Lewinski <billclinton@westchester.com> ) > Deep Fried Foreskin <dff@mcdonalds.com> $ > Aroma of Smegma <aroma@chanel.org> > Wet fart <w.Fart@smell.org> ) > Pubic dandruff <P.dandruff@anatomy.org> * > Voluptuous Nipple <V.nipple@anatomy.org>( > Inserted Finger <I.Finger@anatomy.org>! > Pubic Nair <shaved@anatomy.org> ) > Flatulent Meatus <F.Meatus@anatomy.org> ' > Lihk Mhygroin <L.MyGroin@anatomy.org>  > Pre Khum <P.Khum@anatomy.org> # > Phi Mosis <Phi.Mosis@anatomy.org> % > Bal Anatis <Bal.Anatis@anatomy.org> " > Fren Ullum <F.Ullum@anatomy.org>& > Ivanna Getlaid <I.Getlaid@onani.org>( > Ivanna Wankalot <I.Wankalot@onani.org>& > Ivanna Umpalot <Humpalot@drevil.com>, > Wan Tnoneofit <W.Tnoneofit@weirdnames.org>  > Wan Itbad <W.Itbad@inneed.org># > Wan Towank <W.ToWank@anatomy.org> ! > Wan Tolik <w.tolik@anatomy.org> & > Testos Terone <t.terone@anatomy.org># > Upper Gonad <U.Gonad@anatomy.org> # > Right Gonad <R.Gonad@anatomy.org> " > Left Gonad <L.Gonad@anatomy.org>& > Tyson's Glands <Tyson.G@anatomy.org>  > Nose Hair <n.hair@anatomy.org>' > Coronal Sulcus <C.Sulcus@anatomy.org> ' > Corpus Cavernus <manhood@anatomy.org> & > Armpit moisture <armpit@anatomy.org> > Onani Room <onani@hotels.com> ( > Arnie's Banana <weiner@terminator.com>* > Raised eyebrows <r.eyebrows@anatomy.org>' > Vas Deferens <V.deferens@anatomy.org> ' > Naked Canuck <N.canuck@naturists.org> ( > Arni's socks <Smelly.Socks@arnold.org>, > Notable Exception <N.exception@untied.com>( > Unpopped Cherry <U.Cherry@anatomy.org>) > Tatooed Ovaries <T.Ovaries@anatomy.org> ) > Pierced eyelid <p.eyelid@piercings.org> * > Limp Tomato <limp.tomato@vegetables.org>. > Eggplant Earrings <e.earrings@piercings.org>0 > Banana Underpants <B.Underpants@hillfiger.org> > Naval Lint <navel@lint.mil> ) > Ingrown Toenail <i.toenail@anatomy.org> ' > Empty Stomach <E.Stomach@anatomy.org> & > Full Stomach <f.stomach@anatomy.org>$ > Smelly Cat <S.Cat@friends.nbc.com>( > Torn Ligament <T.Ligament@anatomy.org>% > Art Tistic <A.Tistic@modern.museum> * > Furry Raccoon <F.Raccoon@wilderness.org>' > Wet Racoon <W.Racoon@wildnerness.org> $ > Mad Racoon <M.Racoon@wildlife.org>' > Lazy Racoon <L.Racoon@wilderness.org> ( > Eaten Racoon <E.Raccoon@mcdonalds.com>) > Happy Raccoon <H.Racoon@wilderness.org> + > Sleeping Racoon <S.Racoon@wilderness.org> ) > Hungry Racoon <H.Racoon@wilderness.org> $ > Horny Raccoon <H.Racoon@fauna.org>* > Smart Raccoon <S.Raccoon@wilderness.org>. > George W Raccoon <GW.Raccoon@wilderness.org>- > Ronald McRaccoon <r.raccoon@wilderness.org> , > Thirsty Raccoon <T.Raccoon@wilderness.org>* > Johnny Raccoon <J.Racoon@wilderness.org>) > Oshi Santo <O.Santo@nx01.starfleet.org> , > Oishi Chinko <O.Chinko@nx01.starfleet.org>! > T.Yellow <T.Yellow@nowhere.com>  > Q <queue@continuum.net>  > Borg Queen <1of1@borg.org>, > Ronald Wilkerson <wilkersonr@sympatico.ca>+ > John Balterman <j.balterman@sympatico.ca>  > = > *DISTRIBUTE FREELY* *DISTRIBUTE FREELY* *DISTRIBUTE FREELY*     ? Oh my, is all this stuff *really* true?  Pretty wierd if it is!    --   Best Greg   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2005 21:35:47 -0500  From: Grubb Industries <grubb>+ Subject: Re: M e z e i kooks out again..... 8 Message-ID: <jbrhp1h1mtqdnb39jdns34sd9l8bpqfq2k@4ax.com>  . On 8 Dec 2005 18:27:02 -0800, "Gregory Morrow"$ <gregorymorrow@earthlink.net> wrote:   >  >Nomen Nescio wrote: > 1 >> nobody (JF Mezei) <nobody@nobody.org> trolled:  >> >> >Cyrus Afzali wrote: E >> >> obviously don't. Murder is a crime and is in no way tied to the 9 >> >> shooting of a person by a law enforcement official.  >> > >> >J >> >For a very long time, south african police "did their work" by killingK >> >blacks. It wasn't considered murder because they were police and it was I >> >their job. Then, they awoke and realised that it was unacceptable for + >> >police to indiscriminatly shoot people.  >> >J >> >The USA has downgraded itself to accept a police state mentality whereL >> >people accept that police shoot first and ask questions later. And whileK >> >it was for a long time a leader in human rights, it now refuses the red K >> >cross full access to its concentration camps, has a vice president that L >> >refuses to agree to a CIA ban on torture, and yet this is all supportred >> >by american citizens.  >> > >> >H >> >For americans, it may not be considered "murder", but it is for many >> >people outside the USA.  >>) >> "The USA has downgraded itself" Mezei?  >> "police state mentality"? >> "its concentration camps"?  >> >> FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS  >>    About  >> JF MEZEI  >>C >> The "nobody" troll of rec.travel.air and "John Doe" troll of the  >> sci.space.* newsgroups. >> >> (Rev. August 3, 2005) >> >> Written by: >> >> Marc Bissonnette  >> 1725 Beachburg Road >> Beachburg, Ontario  K0J 1C0 >> (613) 582-7056 2 >> d r a g n e t @ i n t e r n a l y s i s . c o m >> http://www.internalysis.com >> http://www.canadianisp.com  >> >> and >> >> Darrell Larose  >> 121 Northwestern Ave  >> Ottawa, ON K1Y 0M1  >> (613) 725-0245 & >> c o t a 3 4 8 @ r o g e r s . c o m4 >> a d 6 0 7 @ F r e e N e t . C a r l e t o n . C A >> >> >> 1.  Who is JF Mezei?  >>J >> Jean-Francois Mezei is the worst netkook and megatroll to have ever hitM >> rec.travel.air and various other usenet newsgroups.  He is also one of the , >> longest running trolls in usenet history. >>M >> ***WARNING:  JF MEZEI IS A ROGUE CANCELLER.  HE FORGES THE NAME AND E-MAIL E >> ADDRESS OF USENET POSTERS HE DOES NOT AGREE WITH AND CANCELS THEIR  >> MESSAGES.***  >>L >> If you participate in the same newsgroups he does, you should monitor theN >> control.cancel newsgroup.  If you find that he has cancelled your messages, >> forward a copies of them to: & >> a b u s e @ t e k s a v v y . c o m& >> a b u s e @ a s t r a w e b . c o m& >> a b u s e @ t e r a n e w s . c o m >>& >> See also http://www.usenetabuse.com >>% >> 2.  How long has he been trolling?  >> >> For well over a decade. >> >> 3.  Where does he live? >> >> Montreal, Quebec, Canada  >> >> Jean-Francois Mezei >> 86 Harwood Gate >> Beaconsfield, QC H9W3A3 >> (514) 992-0474  >> (514) 695-8259  >>$ >> His current e-mail addresses are:* >> j f m e z e i @ t e k s a v v y . c o m, >> j f m e z e i @ v a x i n a t i o n . c a >>, >> His website is http://www.vaxination.ca . >>- >> 4.  What makes him such a malicious troll?  >>K >> His trolling is constant, repetitious, relentless.  Once he invades your M >> newsgroup he will stay for decades, troll around the clock, day in and day N >> out, every day of the year, for years and years on end.  He does not listenM >> to pleas to stop, he does not listen to anything anyone tells him, he does G >> not pay attention when the misinformation/disinformation he posts is L >> corrected, he just goes right on trolling year in, year out like a littleN >> child holding his ears closed while yelling "I can't hear you, I can't hear >> anything you say!"  >>  >> 5.  What does he troll about? >>I >> His favorite subjects are USA-bashing and anything to do with sex.  He L >> hates the USA and Americans and will hijack any thread and turn it into aK >> USA-bashing fest.  If he can't do that then he'll just start making lewd 	 >> posts.  >>' >> 6.  What does he hate about the USA?  >>J >> Everything!  He is part of a larger group of Canadian trolls who have aF >> visceral hatred of the USA, motivated by envy mostly.  The USA is aK >> happier, better, more successful version of their country and they can't I >> stand it.  Some of JF's favorite troll bait is "the Bush Regime", "the N >> Cheney/Rumsfeld/Wolfowitz axis of evil", "Americans are brainwashed", "Cars> >> are evil", "SUVs are evil", "all Americans are stupid" etc. >>& >> 7.  What about his sexual trolling? >>H >> Ah, that is JF at his trolling best.  No sexual topic is too bizarre.L >> Among his favorites are child sexuality, masturbation, women's genitalia,N >> sex toys, circumcision, the sex lives of Americans (of course) ... the list >> is endless. >> >> 8.  Circumcision??? >>L >> Yes, JF trolled the circumcision newsgroups for years.  He still likes toL >> insert circumcision into his trolling every now and then.  Apparently, JFL >> was traumatized as a child because his parents, poor Hungarian immigrantsJ >> to Canada, left him uncircumcised when he was born, as is the custom inN >> most of the world.  Growing up in Canada where male infant circumcision wasL >> prevalent at the time, he was psychologically scarred (so he claims).  AsK >> soon as he could he arranged to get himself snipped, and then joined the J >> brigades of circumcision proselytizers in the newsgroups advocating theM >> joys of a free willy.  His main argument is how much better he was able to M >> masturbate after getting circumcised without that "pesky foreskin" getting I >> in the way of his enjoyment, and he has made it his mission in life to " >> spread the circumcision gospel. >>K >> 9.  What's his interest in child sexuality?  That sounds kind of freaky.  >>L >> Well, everything having to do with Mezei *is* freaky.  Among the subjectsJ >> dear to his heart are the genitals of little boys and girls, especiallyL >> little boy's foreskins (and how tight they are) and little girls' hymens.M >> He is also a tireless activist and advocate that children should be taught M >> to masturbate early on so that they don't grow up "sexually repressed like  >> Americans". >>H >> He also counsels all parents of boys that they constantly check theirM >> little boys' penises and foreskins frequently to ensure a good fit, proper N >> movement, and that they be able to masturbate with no problems.  Utopia forF >> JF would be a world full of parents manipulating their little boys' >> penises.  >>K >> 10.  Ewww!  This guy is sounding more and more disgusting by the minute! % >> Are you sure about all this stuff?  >>N >> Yes, you can check the google archives for yourself.  There's over a decade# >> full of Mezei trolling in there.  >>K >> 11.  How can I find all that out, doesn't he change aliases all the time  >> like all trolls do? >>N >> Of course!  See the appendix below for a list of many of his known trolling >> aliases.  >>J >> 12.  So where does this guy get so much time to troll, doesn't he work? >>N >> Ha ha ha!  JF hasn't worked a day in his life!  He's an adult baby, a grownK >> man who still lives at home with mommy and sleeps all day and trolls the M >> newsgroups all night.  In his free time when he isn't trolling he likes to N >> ride his bike down to Dorval Airport and race the planes down the runway in >> his bike. >>< >> 13.  That seems strange, is he mentally ill or something? >>K >> Bingo!  JF is a boy in a grown man's body.  Psychologically he never got L >> past the age of 13 and got stuck in a world of bathroom humor (i.e. "pullN >> my finger!") and locker room antics that he has never been able to outgrow. >>L >> 14.  Speaking of locker rooms, I heard he has a sexual fetish about them, >> is that true? >>J >> Yes!  JF goes to the gym not to work out but to watch men in the lockerM >> room.  He loves to post about the male sexual organs he has seen in locker K >> rooms over the years, especially his unnatural obsession with foreskins. M >> He stalks the men in locker rooms trying to measure how much foreskin they F >> have, or how little is left if they have been circumcised.  He gets6 >> extremely excited when he spots a case of phimosis. >>J >> 15.  Oh my Gawd, this guy is nuts!  He should be locked up in an insane
 >> asylum! >>L >> Yep, JF is certifiably insane.  He lives in a black helicopter / tin foilM >> hat world where others are out to get him.  The key to understanding JF is H >> that he sees himself as a VICTIM.  To JF the world is out to get him,; >> especially the USA.  Victimhood is what JF is all about.  >>N >> What seems to have sent him over the edge was when the Canadian rail systemI >> was "killed", in his words.  He used to be a major train nut, spotting M >> trains, writing down their numbers and chasing them down at the train yard N >> like a good freak.  Then he turned his attention to aviation.  Major eventsK >> that made him fall head first deep into the abyss were the bankruptcy of N >> Canadian Airlines and their subsequent takeover by Air Canada (whom he seesH >> as evil).  So paranoid is he that when an Air Canada plane crashed heI >> claimed that Air Canada employees went lurking about in the night with N >> buckets of white paint to cover up the Air Canada markings.  He saw that asM >> symbolic of a cover up of the crash investigation.  He has never recovered 
 >> from this.  >>9 >> 16.  Where else does he hang out, I want to avoid him!  >>I >> His main haunt on usenet is comp.os.vms, a newsgroup dedicated to some H >> ancient, arcane, obsolete piece of vax crapware that nobody has takenK >> seriously for decades.  JF hangs out there with other misfits and social L >> dropouts who share his psychological traumas, crying for the good old vax' >> days of yore.  It's really pathetic!  >>$ >> 17.  Where else does he hang out? >>L >> can.internet.highspeed, alt.cellular.fido, and a few other geeky computerJ >> groups.  For a while after the Shuttle Columbia disaster he invaded theD >> sci.space groups, sci.space.shuttle in particular, and trolled itM >> relentlessly with the anti-American, conspiracy theory crap he's so famous J >> for.  But they ran him off that group and he had to go crawling back toB >> comp.os.vms with his tail between his legs, licking his wounds. >>L >> 18.  It sounds like comp.os.vms is the only group he respects and doesn't	 >> troll.  >>L >> Pretty much.  For a megatroll like JF it's impossible not to troll, so heG >> slips in troll bait every now and then, but by and large he respects D >> comp.os.vms, and, more importantly, he tries to hide his trollingJ >> activities from them so they won't find out what a major netkook he is. >>L >> 19.  Wow, sounds like he should be exposed so they will know what kind of >> psycho he is! >>H >> Exactly.  Feel free to post all his trolls to comp.os.vms.  And whileN >> you're at it post them to can.internet.highspeed and alt.cellular.fido too.< >> And to alt.usenet.kooks, a group for the likes of JF, and >> news.admin.net-abuse.usenet.  >>7 >> 20.  What else can I do?  Is there an abuse address?  >>K >> Yes, you should send complaints along with copies of his troll posts to:  >>& >> a b u s e @ t e k s a v v y . c o m, >> d n s a d m i n @ t e k s a v v y . c o m& >> a b u s e @ t e r a n e w s . c o m& >> a b u s e @ a s t r a w e b . c o m >>" >> also http://www.usenetabuse.com >>: >> You can also call directly, troll free, 1-877-779-1575. >> >> TekSavvy Solutions Inc. >> 330 Richmond St., Suite 205 >> Chatham, ON, Canada
 >> N7M 1P7 >>M >> And feel free to distribute this FAQ freely.  Post it to newsgroups, email K >> it to people, you may host it at your own website, send it to newspapers M >> and magazines that do Internet articles or anything to do with Montreal or  >> Canada, etc.  >> >> >> *** APPENDIX ***  >>J >> List of some of the many trolling aliases used by Mezei over the years.K >> This is only a partial list, he has so many it's impossible to compile a 
 >> full list.  >>* >> j f m e z e i @ t e k s a v v y . c o m: >> j f m e z e i . s p a m n o t @ t e k s a v v y . c o m$ >> j f m e z e i @ i s t o p . c o m4 >> j f m e z e i . s p a m n o t @ i s t o p . c o m* >> j f m e z e i @ v i d e o t r o n . c a0 >> j f m e z e i @ v l . v i d e o t r o n . c a8 >> n o s p a m . j f m e z e i @ v i d e o t r o n . c a> >> " j f m e z e i " @ v i d e o t r o n . c a [ n o s p a m ] >>- >> nobody <n o b o d y @ n o b o d y . c o m> - >> nobody <n o b o d y @ n o b o d y . n e t> - >> nobody <n o b o d y @ n o b o d y . o r g> / >> nobody <n o b o d y @ n o b o d y . i n f o> - >> nobody <n o b o d y @ n o b o d y . i n t> / >> nobody <n o b o d y @ n o t h i n g . n i l> ) >> nobody <n o b o d y @ n u l l . d e v>  >>& >> Janice Staples <jstaples@noaol.com>, >> Lorenna Bobbit <lbobbit@ginsu_knives.com>* >> Lando Calrisian <Lcalrisian@empire.org> >> muklak <muklak@eskimo.net>   >> Sheep skin <sheep@station.au>& >> snowy squirrel <squirrel@nest.tree>, >> Conspiracy Theory <conspiracy@theory.org>) >> Lou Raccoon <L.Raccoon@wilderness.org> ' >> Flapping Labias <flabia@anatomy.org> ( >> Throbbing vulva <t.vulva@anatomy.org> >> Twin Gonads <two@gonads.com> ( >> Loose Scrotum <l.scrotum@anatomy.org>% >> Raised Organ <R.Organ@anatomy.org> ' >> Popped Cherry <P.Cherry@anatomy.org> 0 >> Monica Lewinski <billclinton@westchester.com>* >> Deep Fried Foreskin <dff@mcdonalds.com>% >> Aroma of Smegma <aroma@chanel.org>  >> Wet fart <w.Fart@smell.org>* >> Pubic dandruff <P.dandruff@anatomy.org>+ >> Voluptuous Nipple <V.nipple@anatomy.org> ) >> Inserted Finger <I.Finger@anatomy.org> " >> Pubic Nair <shaved@anatomy.org>* >> Flatulent Meatus <F.Meatus@anatomy.org>( >> Lihk Mhygroin <L.MyGroin@anatomy.org>  >> Pre Khum <P.Khum@anatomy.org>$ >> Phi Mosis <Phi.Mosis@anatomy.org>& >> Bal Anatis <Bal.Anatis@anatomy.org># >> Fren Ullum <F.Ullum@anatomy.org> ' >> Ivanna Getlaid <I.Getlaid@onani.org> ) >> Ivanna Wankalot <I.Wankalot@onani.org> ' >> Ivanna Umpalot <Humpalot@drevil.com> - >> Wan Tnoneofit <W.Tnoneofit@weirdnames.org> ! >> Wan Itbad <W.Itbad@inneed.org> $ >> Wan Towank <W.ToWank@anatomy.org>" >> Wan Tolik <w.tolik@anatomy.org>' >> Testos Terone <t.terone@anatomy.org> $ >> Upper Gonad <U.Gonad@anatomy.org>$ >> Right Gonad <R.Gonad@anatomy.org># >> Left Gonad <L.Gonad@anatomy.org> ' >> Tyson's Glands <Tyson.G@anatomy.org> ! >> Nose Hair <n.hair@anatomy.org> ( >> Coronal Sulcus <C.Sulcus@anatomy.org>( >> Corpus Cavernus <manhood@anatomy.org>' >> Armpit moisture <armpit@anatomy.org>   >> Onani Room <onani@hotels.com>) >> Arnie's Banana <weiner@terminator.com> + >> Raised eyebrows <r.eyebrows@anatomy.org> ( >> Vas Deferens <V.deferens@anatomy.org>( >> Naked Canuck <N.canuck@naturists.org>) >> Arni's socks <Smelly.Socks@arnold.org> - >> Notable Exception <N.exception@untied.com> ) >> Unpopped Cherry <U.Cherry@anatomy.org> * >> Tatooed Ovaries <T.Ovaries@anatomy.org>* >> Pierced eyelid <p.eyelid@piercings.org>+ >> Limp Tomato <limp.tomato@vegetables.org> / >> Eggplant Earrings <e.earrings@piercings.org> 1 >> Banana Underpants <B.Underpants@hillfiger.org>  >> Naval Lint <navel@lint.mil>* >> Ingrown Toenail <i.toenail@anatomy.org>( >> Empty Stomach <E.Stomach@anatomy.org>' >> Full Stomach <f.stomach@anatomy.org> % >> Smelly Cat <S.Cat@friends.nbc.com> ) >> Torn Ligament <T.Ligament@anatomy.org> & >> Art Tistic <A.Tistic@modern.museum>+ >> Furry Raccoon <F.Raccoon@wilderness.org> ( >> Wet Racoon <W.Racoon@wildnerness.org>% >> Mad Racoon <M.Racoon@wildlife.org> ( >> Lazy Racoon <L.Racoon@wilderness.org>) >> Eaten Racoon <E.Raccoon@mcdonalds.com> * >> Happy Raccoon <H.Racoon@wilderness.org>, >> Sleeping Racoon <S.Racoon@wilderness.org>* >> Hungry Racoon <H.Racoon@wilderness.org>% >> Horny Raccoon <H.Racoon@fauna.org> + >> Smart Raccoon <S.Raccoon@wilderness.org> / >> George W Raccoon <GW.Raccoon@wilderness.org> . >> Ronald McRaccoon <r.raccoon@wilderness.org>- >> Thirsty Raccoon <T.Raccoon@wilderness.org> + >> Johnny Raccoon <J.Racoon@wilderness.org> * >> Oshi Santo <O.Santo@nx01.starfleet.org>- >> Oishi Chinko <O.Chinko@nx01.starfleet.org> " >> T.Yellow <T.Yellow@nowhere.com> >> Q <queue@continuum.net> >> Borg Queen <1of1@borg.org> - >> Ronald Wilkerson <wilkersonr@sympatico.ca> , >> John Balterman <j.balterman@sympatico.ca> >>> >> *DISTRIBUTE FREELY* *DISTRIBUTE FREELY* *DISTRIBUTE FREELY* >  > @ >Oh my, is all this stuff *really* true?  Pretty wierd if it is!      	 WHO CARES    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 22:49:32 -0500 From: "Darrell" <spam@this.eh>+ Subject: Re: M e z e i kooks out again..... 9 Message-ID: <wcidnfVSYsJQYwXenZ2dnUVZ_tudnZ2d@rogers.com>   , "Grubb Industries" <grubb> wrote in message 2 news:jbrhp1h1mtqdnb39jdns34sd9l8bpqfq2k@4ax.com...0 > On 8 Dec 2005 18:27:02 -0800, "Gregory Morrow"& > <gregorymorrow@earthlink.net> wrote: >  >> >>Nomen Nescio wrote:  >> >>> ? >>> *DISTRIBUTE FREELY* *DISTRIBUTE FREELY* *DISTRIBUTE FREELY*  >> >>A >>Oh my, is all this stuff *really* true?  Pretty wierd if it is!  >  >  > WHO CARES  > I Oddly enough only Gregory Morrow who always follows-up this stupid Nomen  
 Nescio TROLL.    ------------------------------   Date: 8 Dec 2005 17:13:12 -0800 $ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>Y Subject: Re: New salary and benefits data in this post Re: HP : Massive strike and protes C Message-ID: <1134090792.294744.320870@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    David J Dachtera wrote:  > AEF wrote: > >  > > David J Dachtera wrote:  > > > AEF wrote: > > > > 	 > > [...]  > > > > N > > > > At what point do the workers have enough and future "surpluses" can beL > > > > use to pay down the debt? Is 100K/yr enough for a bus driver? $200K? > > > F > > > Show me an hourly person making that pay range on straight time. > > J > > Well, I can't quite reach $75K (which with the 33% raise gives $100K), > > but check out this:  > > = > >     http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/07/nyregion/07mta.html  > > H > > Check the link soon -- it is currently free but will cost $4 by Dec. > > 14.  > >  > > Some excerpts: > >  > > Average total yearly pay:  > >  > > Bus operator:    $62,551 > " > I *KNEW* I was in the wrong gig! >  > > Train operator:  $62,438 > > Train conductor: $53,900 > J > Metra employees can double those numbers, though they work a 15-hour dayD > with four to six hours "off" between the morning and evening rush. >  > > Station agent:   $50,720 > ( > Don't have CTA or Metra stat.'s handy. >  > > Now check out the benefits:  > >  > > 12 sick days/year  > F > Since some of them work the holidays, actual sick time is probably a1 > negative number when you factor in no holidays.   F OK, maybe 12 is okay. The MTA wants to make it six and the union wantsB to keep it at 12. I'm not angry with the union for this particular% benefit (or perk, or whatever it is).  > K > > A health plan that costs the MTA almost $400 million this year (roughly  > > $11,700 per worker)  > H > Hhmmm... hardly the "equal to salary" numbers bandied about in another > thread in recent memory.  ? If you include pension you might get the "equal to salary" bit.    > C > > Those "with 25 years of experience can retire at 55 and receive ) > > pensions equal to half their salary."  > >  > > Then there's this: > > E > > "Mr. Dellaverson [labor relations head of the MTA] scoffed at the K > > union's proposal to revert to a far more expensive plan, one that would K > > allow workers with 20 years of experience to retire at age 50 with full K > > pensions. Such a plan was in place until 1973, and Mr. Dellaverson said G > > he believed it contributed to the fiscal crisis of the mid-1970's."  > > E > > OK, to be fair the MTA is making demands about combining jobs and J > > pushing one person train operation (OPTO) for some lines, but still, IJ > > really don't think the union is being reasonable. OTOH, I haven't seenH > > any more mention of the 33% raise (to be rolled in over 3 years), so) > > maybe that is just extreme posturing.  > > K > > How many of us can retire at 55 and continue to make half their salary?  > > K > > How many riders and taxpayers know that some of their hard earned money J > > is being paid to workers who retired at 55? That could easily be 20 to, > > 30 years of half-salary pay for no work! > > J > > David, I'm not saying all unions are all bad all the time, but here in, > > NYC I think they're being too demanding. > > 	 > > [...]  > I > Well, here in Chicago, the CTA now has one-person trains. The number of G > assults increased markedly, but ridership subsequently fell such that I > crime statistics returned to nearly their previous annual level (two or 8 > more crew members per 6/8-car train), though the crime- > per-passenger-mile numbers remain elevated.   E I did agree that management is also unfair at times, but with the NYC F union they're demanding huge amounts of money. Why don't they stick to@ beating back the increaseing demands of the MTA? If they do thatF instead of making they're own even more outrageous demands, I wouldn't be against them.   > C > ...and CTA is *STILL* crying that it needs more money while wages G > continue their downward spiral, the transit workers union caves in to = > preserve jobs, and the CTA fat-cats get fatter by the hour.   F Don't know enought to comment. CTA execs get raises by moving to OPTO?   > ! > "Now there's fairness for you!"   ! The *** files in both directions.    ------------------------------   Date: 8 Dec 2005 17:50:16 -0800 $ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>F Subject: Question about SPAWN/INPUT table in the DCL Dictionary manualC Message-ID: <1134093015.964975.170830@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Hello,   OK, here's a VMS question:  D Can someone explain to me the following excerpt from the SPAWN/INPUT$ documentation in the DCL dictionary?   [begin excerpt]   D You cannot explicitly specify non-record-oriented, process-permanentB files (NRO PPFs) with the /INPUT qualifier. The system displays anA error message when it encounters such a file as the value for the  /INPUT qualifier.   G Note that when NRO PPFs are used as implicit input (that is, the /INPUT A qualifier is not specified and SYS$INPUT is a NRO PPF), the SPAWN 5 command can succeed, as shown in the following table:   ) Process type    SYS$INPUT  Implicit Input ) --------------  ---------  -------------- & Interactive     NRO PPF    SYS$COMMAND& Noninteractive  NRO PPF    Null device$ Any             Any other  SYS$INPUT  A If SYS$INPUT is a terminal, it cannot have an associated terminal  mailbox.  
 [end excerpt]   9 OK, what is a non-record-oriented process-permanent file?   $ How does one create such a creature?  = Does one use the DEFINE command to make it implicit input via ) SYS$INPUT? Any special quals needed? Etc.   G Can someone please give some concrete examples illustrating the various  scenarios in the table?   . And the same questions for the output version.  - And what is an "associated terminal mailbox"?    thanks.    AEF    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 18:54:38 -0500* From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>F Subject: Re: Sixty (six-zero) VMS engineers *with* security clearance?, Message-ID: <4398c7bf$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  J It can take 2 years.  Of course, generally speaking for a simple clearanceL a temporary one is usually issued in a month or two after a quick background check.  7 "rcyoung" <rcyoung@aliconsultants.com> wrote in message = news:1133980508.019756.311770@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... H > Security clearances are tricky things. I worked in the DOD complex forH > almost 20 yrs, and had a Q security clearance all that time. The pointH > is, if you needed a security clearance at that level it took 18 monthsG > to process and that was before 9/11. I assume it takes more time now, I > and that assumes you don't need a higher clearance level. Now it is not F > easy to simply "transfer" from one company to another. Clearances doH > NOT transfer automatically with the individual. The only way is if youD > go direct from one cleared position, to another, with virtually no@ > "dead time" in between. The only way I kept mine when changingI > employers (and it still took a month for the transfer) was to stop work F > in Denver on a Friday, and begin employment in South Carolina on the > following Wednesday. >    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 18:51:04 -0500* From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com> Subject: Re: Time problem , Message-ID: <4398c6e9$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  K Because time is kept by counting the clock interrupts, anything that causes  themL to not happen in a timely manner can cause clock drift.  A bad device on the bus J can do it.  If the system is gaining time, then something is broken in the FW or HWH since the only way (other than something messing directly with the time)
 that I canI think of the *gain* time is if we somehow think the clock is ticking at a 	 different  rate than it is.    ) <norm.raphael@metso.com> wrote in message K news:OF9DEA0803.8CCEB2D2-ON852570CF.006FFFCC-852570CF.00701EED@metso.com...  >  > G > "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com> wrote on 12/05/2005 05:55:26 PM:  > J > > High interrupt time is not going to lose the time you are seeing - but
 > > something F > > bad on the bus can and will.  For instance, a device that is doing > excessive J > > retries.  Try removing one of the SCSI controllers at a time.  We have > seenI > > this type of thing with some graphics adapters that misbehaved in the  > past -, > > which is why I was asking about devices. > L > I second that.  Had a VS4000-96 giving me fits and it turned out to be the> > graphics card even though we had no graphics terminal on it. >  > >  > > 0 > > "Kevin Handy" <kth@srv.net> wrote in message6 > > news:1133802802_68385@spool6-east.superfeed.net... > > > FredK wrote:8 > > > > "Joe Bloggs" <JBloggs@acme.com> wrote in message: > > > > news:k6o0p1dd9ifbgp77vk2risk6lkreoletom@4ax.com... > > > > L > > > >>On Thu, 01 Dec 2005 14:19:42 -0700, Kevin Handy <kth@srv.net> wrote: > > > >> > > > >>G > > > >>>I just set the time correctly, and after 1/2 hour it is off by G > > > >>>5 minutes. Doing a bare "set time" seems to reset the clock to  > > > >>>the correct time. > > > >> > > > > J > > > > What type of hardware is this, and what type of options are on the > bus. > > > >  > > > > ) > > > DS10, with two SCSI adapters, iirc. C > > > One for the internal disks/tape, one for external disks/tape. B > > > I think that the external disks and tape (TZ30) are all gone> > > > now. They were needed for the original conversion from a8 > > > MicroVax 3100, so one SCSI is probably now unused. > > > = > > > MON MODES does not show any large number of interrupts, : > > > just 100% idle time, so I don't think the extra SCSI > > > controller is going nuts.  > > > L > > > ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet > > News==----E > > > http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!  120,000  > +  > > NewsgroupsK > > > ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption 	 > > =----  > >  > >  >    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.684 ************************                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  LFA*jn~erַ٩==x"ttU#Z)
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