1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 14 Dec 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 695       Contents: Adopting 3 stray Vaxen :-) Re: Adopting 3 stray Vaxen :-)" Re: calloc() fails, no more memory ES40 RAID: Mylex KZPAC ? Re: ES40 RAID: Mylex KZPAC ? Re: ES40 RAID: Mylex KZPAC ? Re: ES40 RAID: Mylex KZPAC ?& Re: Help: SYS$ACM is driving me nuts!! Re: HP's strategy explained : 7 Re: illegal blowjobs by Ottawa pedophile Darrell Larose 7 Re: illegal blowjobs by Ottawa pedophile Darrell Larose  Re: java OutOfMemoryError  Re: java OutOfMemoryError ' Location of initial page and swap files + Re: Location of initial page and swap files + Re: Location of initial page and swap files 6 Re: Resale value of ES40 and lots of other VMS systems6 Re: Resale value of ES40 and lots of other VMS systems" Re: saving recovery data with PCSI8 Re: SDA> TCPIP SHO DEV/PORT=n/SOCK displays no BG device Re: SRM memtest  Re: SRM memtest 0 RE: Timeout strategy: terminal vs Telnet drivers0 RE: Timeout strategy: terminal vs Telnet drivers0 RE: Timeout strategy: terminal vs Telnet drivers UK VMS HP contract customers  Re: UK VMS HP contract customers  Re: UK VMS HP contract customers  Re: UK VMS HP contract customers  Re: UK VMS HP contract customers  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 03:49:42 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> # Subject: Adopting 3 stray Vaxen :-) * Message-ID: <439FDC98.D66729@teksavvy.com>  H Yesterday was a big day. I adopted 3 stray VAXes, a 400-500a (which says@ it is a -600a when booted), 2 400-200s, and a DSSI disk cabinet.  G However, I didn't get the keys for the cabinets... I'll haier to hire a B locksmith (or just use my screwdriver to turn the locking knob :-)  H At one point, all 4 boxes were on a snowy sidewalk in downtown montreal,B awaiting transport, and it was quite interesting to watch faces ofG people as they walked past them. One old lady asked me what these boxes  were.     G Basically 3 BA440s, and 1 younger/smaller sibbling, the BA215 with only E 4 Qbus slots. To lift this into a minivan, you need 2 normal people.  F But all 4 fit in. Fitting a 5th one would have been quite a challenge, so I guess I was lucky.     A While from the outside, they look "plastic", these guys are still B solidly build with a heavy metal cage. And hey ! they were made inG Canada (Kanata).  Certaintly quite a big step since the era of Microvax F IIs in terms of cabinet design, but still quite some ways from currentC Dell 1U  rackmountable units. The Dell boxes also show the shape of D things to come: servers won't have expansion cards, they'll just use* gigabit ethernet to talk to other devices.  G And since it was very cold  yesterday, it was perhaps the first time in H my life where I realised I really had to wait for the boxes to warm backD up before doing anything with them. (Bringing cold equipment indoors3 causes humidity to condensate on the cold machine).   G Ok, this is where "hobbyist" really differs from "business". What's the F first thing one does with a new toy ? You take it apart, blow the dustG out (having compressor really helps !), wash the cabinet, check out the D cabinet design etc, and put it back together. So far, I've only done this with the 400-500A.   G One of the 4000-200s has the same config as the ones I had handled in a A business environment 13 years ago (KLESI and a DPV11 (synchronous @ comms).  But you never get to play with such beasts in a mission critical envrionment !  2 About interfacing with the all mighty Microvax II:  G The 4000-500/600 definitely cannot interface. The memory boards and CPU * have very different connectors from Q-BUS.  F However, for the 4000-200, the memory and CPU boards appear compatible7 (at least physically) with the QBUS boards on the MVII.     H I am not entirely sure yet how I will integrate all of this. However, asC time progresses, the idea of disposing of my 18 year old all mighty G Microvax II is no longer so harshly rejected. I would likely re-use the F big Q5 cabinet as an 19" rack to hold those machines. ( you can remove? the sides of the Q5 cabinet to make it into a slimmer cabinet).   E However, this leaves me with the issue of how to power and connect my 5 SCSI drives, as well as how to hold the serial ports.   F What is nice with this arrangement is that I can play a lot on this toE see what can be done without affecting my running apps/web server etc H since once you're above 2 nodes on a cluster, it becomes a lot easier toC manage quorum. And if I plan this right, I may be able to do a full 3 transplant to the new systems without any downtime.   E And I'll have to find  names for each disk and new node... that's the  hard part !     H Question: could I use the QBUS expander card that links the two BA23s inG the Q5 cabinet of the MVII, change the cable for a longer one and use a H BA23 as a qbus expansion where I could have my SCSI drives and SCSI card, etc ? How long a ribbon cable could I have ?    F The problem with those BA440s is that the don't provide standard power  connectors for disks, CDROM etc.   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Dec 2005 07:01:58 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) ' Subject: Re: Adopting 3 stray Vaxen :-) 3 Message-ID: <4hC0fhGoZrfj@eisner.encompasserve.org>   Z In article <439FDC98.D66729@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:J > Yesterday was a big day. I adopted 3 stray VAXes, a 400-500a (which saysB > it is a -600a when booted), 2 400-200s, and a DSSI disk cabinet.  @ I got such a cabinet and found that my 780 key worked just fine.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 11:53:49 +0100 + From: Karsten Nyblad <nospam@nospam.nospam> + Subject: Re: calloc() fails, no more memory = Message-ID: <439ff9bd$0$78283$157c6196@dreader1.cybercity.dk>    Hans Blom wrote: > Hello all,I > I'm running OpenVMS 7.3-2 on an Alphaserver. A programmer has developed I > an application that, in order to work with speed, wants to keep as much I > as possible of the data in memory. At some point he does an calloc() to F > get a memoryarea to keep about 400 000 pointers. He gets a null backF > from the call, basically OpenVMS saying - sorry sir, no more memory! > J > We have tried raising pgflquota, wsextent (in order to decrease need forI > paging) and every other conceivable quota both in sysuaf and sysgen. We I > can see that as long as the program works in memory everything is fine, F > but as soon as wsextent is hit and it has to start paging, it fails. > 1 > I'm stuck! Anybody got any ideas on what to do?  > 	 > Regards  >  > Hans Blom   H There is one system parameter, that I do not understand why nobody have C mentioned.  Is it just me, who have not had my hands on an OpenVMS   machine for too long?   E At least on older versions of VMS there was a major system parameter  C called something like MAXVIRTUALMEM, which decided the size of the  G processes own pagetable.  Basicly the memory allocated to a process is  H two stacks, one containing the program, normal static variable, and the F heap, and that stack is extended when calling, e.g. malloc or calloc. I The other stack contains the procedure call stack.  MAXVIRTUALMEM should  F on a vax be larger than the maximum address used in the first stack + C 2**31 - the minimum address used on the second stack.  I guess the  H calculation is some what more complicated on an Alpha.  And please note E that while demand zero pages are not charged to your pagefile quota,  D they  must be calculated in when deciding the minimum value of this G parameter.  Usually it is enough to set it so that is well higher than  7 the highest value of pagefile quota used on the system.    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Dec 2005 01:40:17 -0800/ From: "Shahin Yaz" <Shahinyaz@blueyonder.co.uk> ! Subject: ES40 RAID: Mylex KZPAC ? B Message-ID: <1134553217.568519.94740@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>  E We need to add RAID to an ES40 667MHz server, and are considering the D options. While attractively priced I have heard that the KZPAC's areA not reliable and I should avoid them if possible. Can anyone with / experience of these controllers please advise ?    Thanks, Shahin   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:26:44 +0000 ! From: Baldrick <none@[127.0.0.1]> % Subject: Re: ES40 RAID: Mylex KZPAC ? ' Message-ID: <dnos14$gfc$1@lore.csc.com>    Shahin Yaz wrote: G > We need to add RAID to an ES40 667MHz server, and are considering the F > options. While attractively priced I have heard that the KZPAC's areC > not reliable and I should avoid them if possible. Can anyone with 1 > experience of these controllers please advise ?   I They are OK however you are really not going to get the performance from   them.   D You are probably better looking at a HSZ70 or HSZ80 controller with H cache, the performance is in keeping with the ES40 without going to HSG  / fibre storage.  H You gets what you pay for though, the KZPACs do provide a function, and I yes they can be temperamental in use. A consideration you should have is  I the expected lifetime, bearing in mind these are older controllers, with  G older disks (9 GB is biggest you can use) so will start to get as rare  H as stocks are used / drives fail. I can't really give you any advice on  reliability.  ? Of course it totally depends what your objectives are, perhaps  D replicating the storage you have (or an additional external storage @ block) with volume shadowing software may be suitable. All with  different costs! --  E Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. Car Park Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 08:09:42 -0500 - From: William Webb <william.w.webb@gmail.com> % Subject: Re: ES40 RAID: Mylex KZPAC ? I Message-ID: <8660a3a10512140509u780cd661l8ae7366f0a9261c1@mail.gmail.com>   L On 14 Dec 2005 01:40:17 -0800, Shahin Yaz <Shahinyaz@blueyonder.co.uk> wrot= e:G > We need to add RAID to an ES40 667MHz server, and are considering the F > options. While attractively priced I have heard that the KZPAC's areC > not reliable and I should avoid them if possible. Can anyone with 1 > experience of these controllers please advise ?  >  > Thanks, Shahin >  >   L If you have other options from which to choose, I'd suggest that you take t= hem.   WWWebb   --C NOTE: This email address is only used for noncommerical VMS-related  correspondence. C All unsolicited commercial email will be deemed to be a request for 8 services pursuant to the terms and conditions located at# http://bellsouthpwp.net/w/e/webbww/    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Dec 2005 08:56:50 -07001 From: nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett) % Subject: Re: ES40 RAID: Mylex KZPAC ? , Message-ID: <wjQNZN9JQIzz@malvm9.mala.bc.ca>  ( In article <dnos14$gfc$1@lore.csc.com>, '     Baldrick <none@[127.0.0.1]> writes:    > Shahin Yaz wrote: H >> We need to add RAID to an ES40 667MHz server, and are considering theG >> options. While attractively priced I have heard that the KZPAC's are D >> not reliable and I should avoid them if possible. Can anyone with2 >> experience of these controllers please advise ? > K > They are OK however you are really not going to get the performance from   > them.  > F > You are probably better looking at a HSZ70 or HSZ80 controller with J > cache, the performance is in keeping with the ES40 without going to HSG  > / fibre storage.  E     If you're going to consider used ( eg HSZ70/80 ) why not consider H going to fibrechannel. I can't speak for ths HSZ80, but the HSZ70 wasn'tE all that great a performer, you'd get much better performance with an H HSG80. If you're willing to consider Ebay as a source you should be ableF to find what you need (RA8000/MA8000, brocade silkworm switch, KGPSA-B? host adapter ) for a few thousand dollars ( or much less if you E shop carefully ). I recently picked up a RA8000 with an HSZ80 ( which D I'm going to convert to an HSG80 ) for $75. (If anyone has a use forG the HSZ80 controller card - firmware version 8.3 - and cache module let 2 me know - you can have it for the shipping costs).  F     If you want warranty and support and still a very reasonable price@ check with David Turner at Island Computer ( dbturner@hpaq.net )   > J > You gets what you pay for though, the KZPACs do provide a function, and K > yes they can be temperamental in use. A consideration you should have is  K > the expected lifetime, bearing in mind these are older controllers, with  I > older disks (9 GB is biggest you can use) so will start to get as rare  J > as stocks are used / drives fail. I can't really give you any advice on  > reliability. > H    I've successfully used 50GB Seagate drives on a KZPAC ( although it'sG not officially supported ). I presume you'll be using the disk cages in C the ES40, so finding disks to fit into them shouldn't be a problem.    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Dec 2005 07:00:31 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) / Subject: Re: Help: SYS$ACM is driving me nuts!! 3 Message-ID: <A5TAOQOypgRb@eisner.encompasserve.org>   { In article <439FEE4E.67C335E8@encompasserve-or-this.org>, Graham Burley <burley.not-this@encompasserve-or-this.org> writes:  > Malcolm Dunnett wrote:  G >>   This doesn't make sense to me. If I'm doing a network login why is E >> the system trying to force me to retrieve the announcement message G >> at all? Since it's not asking for any further input data why doesn't  >> it just process the login?  > D > By passing a context longword with a value of -1 you're asking for' > dialogue mode when you don't want it.   ? But there should be no dialogue if there is nothing to discuss.   ? I would be suspicious of the context area item that "appears to $ be blank".   What is the item code ?  @ As far as network logins getting SYS$ANNOUNCE, that is perfectlyB reasonable.  Consider those messages about "you may be monitored".B Transmitting that for a network access could be quite appropriate," even though DECnet does not do it.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 16:29:40 GMT ( From: sdgross@att.net (Stephen Grossman)& Subject: Re: HP's strategy explained :S Message-ID: <sdgross-1412051128530001@43.cambridge-18rh15rt.ma.dial-access.att.net>   C In article <1127775481.763189.110230@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,  mark_hpq@yahoo.com wrote:    > Larry Kilgallen wrote: > > > Larry Kilgallen wrote:F > > Not at all to those of us who are engaged in VMS rather than stock9 > > market stuff.  If you have something to say, post it.  >  > H > You can see that (among other things) Mark Hurd got a bonus of 400,000 > HP stocks G > and now he is laying off 15 % of the employees despite an increase of  > the profits of HP. > ? > The funny thing is that HP claims to be an "ethical" company.   J Ethics is a guide to life, not a justification for the sacrifice of life. # <[URL]http://www.aynrand.org[/URL]>    --  2 ==================================================9 A man of judgement, who could look both before and after. ?                                            HOMER, THE ILIAD     P --------------------------------------------------------------------------------8 Radically systematic, radical metaphysics: "Existence 2" http://home.att.net/~sdgrossP --------------------------------------------------------------------------------9 Stephen Grossman    Fairhaven, MA, USA    sdgross@att.net 2 ==================================================Q  -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6  Radically systematic radical metaphysics: Existence 2  http://home.att.net/~sdgross J  -------------------------------------------------------------------------:  Stephen Grossman    Fairhaven, MA, USA    sdgross@att.net/ ===============================================    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Dec 2005 07:06:22 -0800, From: "Nomen Nescio" <geoff_one@hotmail.com>@ Subject: Re: illegal blowjobs by Ottawa pedophile Darrell LaroseB Message-ID: <1134572782.436600.32740@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>   Nomen Nescio wrote:  > # yawn, you really need to get a life    ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 11:08:39 -0700 (MST) 5 From: Borked Pseudo Mailed <nobody@pseudo.borked.net> @ Subject: Re: illegal blowjobs by Ottawa pedophile Darrell Larose@ Message-ID: <b548710b9607591892a8bfe8d40b5847@pseudo.borked.net>  ? Ottawa pedophile Darrell Larose, sockpuppeting as "Nomen Nescio " <geoff_one@hotmail.com>", trolled:   >  >Nomen Nescio wrote: >>  $ >yawn, you really need to get a life  D Poor Darrell.  Still thinking no one knows his sockpuppets.  Must beF the dementia brought on by old age and taking too many cumshots to the face.   
 Poor Darrell.    Darrell Larose   121 Northwestern Ave   Ottawa, ON K1Y 0M1   (613) 725-0245  $ c o t a 3 4 8 @ r o g e r s . c o m 1 a d 6 0 7 @ F r e e N e t . C a r l e t o n . C A    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Dec 2005 05:45:08 -0800' From: "tadamsmar" <tadamsmar@yahoo.com> " Subject: Re: java OutOfMemoryErrorC Message-ID: <1134567908.493025.223530@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Keith A. Lewis wrote:  > "tadamsmar" <tadamsmar@yahoo.com> writes in article <1134508445.066639.236590@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> dated 13 Dec 2005 13:14:05 -0800: + > >I am getting this on a VMS alpha system.  > > E > >If it is due to resources (not just a bug in my program) what do I / > >do to provide more resources to the program?  > N > What version of java?  I think 1.4.2 has a default maximum heap size of 64M.  C Classic VM (build J2SDK.v.1.2.2-3:10/31/2000-08:52, native threads,  jit_122)   OpenVMS V7.3-2   > D > You can increase that value by adding it as a command line option: > $ java "-Xmx200m" 9 > (You need quotes around the argument to preserve case.)   - Here's what I get when I try that Xmx switch:    EES> java "-Xmx200m" tnopti  **Out of memory, exiting** EES> java "-Xmx64m" tnopti **Out of memory, exiting** EES> java "-Xmx8m" tnopti  here5 Exception in thread "main" java.lang.OutOfMemoryError .         at Opti.samp(Opti.java, Compiled Code).         at Opti.simt(Opti.java, Compiled Code)2         at tnopti.main(tnopti.java, Compiled Code)  + Looks like I am not getting 64M by default.   % This alpha has 1024M physical memory.   / I guess the "Out of memory, exiting" must imply / that I am limited by a process or system quota.      > K > Do you think your program should be using 64 MB?  If not, it's probably a  > bug on your end. > 2 > --Keith Lewis              klewis {at} mitre.org@ > The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 15:26:30 +0000 (UTC) - From: klewis@OMEGA.MITRE.ORG (Keith A. Lewis) " Subject: Re: java OutOfMemoryError. Message-ID: <dnpdj6$3o7$1@newslocal.mitre.org>   "tadamsmar" <tadamsmar@yahoo.com> writes in article <1134567908.493025.223530@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> dated 14 Dec 2005 05:45:08 -0800: D >Classic VM (build J2SDK.v.1.2.2-3:10/31/2000-08:52, native threads,	 >jit_122)    >OpenVMS V7.3-2  >  >>E >> You can increase that value by adding it as a command line option:  >> $ java "-Xmx200m": >> (You need quotes around the argument to preserve case.) > . >Here's what I get when I try that Xmx switch: >  >EES> java "-Xmx200m" tnopti >**Out of memory, exiting**  >EES> java "-Xmx64m" tnopti  >**Out of memory, exiting**  >EES> java "-Xmx8m" tnopti >here 6 >Exception in thread "main" java.lang.OutOfMemoryError/ >        at Opti.samp(Opti.java, Compiled Code) / >        at Opti.simt(Opti.java, Compiled Code) 3 >        at tnopti.main(tnopti.java, Compiled Code)  > , >Looks like I am not getting 64M by default.  G I have heard some of the older version only had a 2 MB max heap size by ' default but I didn't really believe it.   K I think that java.lang.OutOfMemoryError is purely internal to the JVM, but  F **Out of memory, exiting** means the JVM can't get the memory from the system.   L Colin Butcher posted some hints about attacking that problem; here's how I'dK start.  "show process/quota" gives you a bunch of numbers including "paging G file quota".  Divide that by 2048 to get MB.  If you don't have enough, M change it in AUTHORIZE (the system manager should do this if you're not him).   & >This alpha has 1024M physical memory.  D Shouldn't be a problem to have a user with a bigger quota then!  :^)  0 >I guess the "Out of memory, exiting" must imply0 >that I am limited by a process or system quota.  J The system can be configured for more virtual memory, but in no case is it* less than the amount of physical memory.    L BTW, there are much newer Java kits in beta.  "dir sys$manager:java$1*" willC get you a list of any that are installed on your system.  If you're 8 developing, I highly recommend 1.5.0 (the very latest).   0 --Keith Lewis              klewis {at} mitre.org> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 03:55:36 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 0 Subject: Location of initial page and swap files, Message-ID: <439FDDF9.66377E5F@teksavvy.com>  G When a node boots, how does it know where its first page/swap files are C to be located ? Does it look in [SYSxx.SYSEXE] for pagefile.sys and C swapfile.sys (hardcoded names) ? Or is there some file names stored = somewhere ? At what stage of booting is this done ? As far as ! startup.com or well before this ?     G In [sys11.sysexe]satellite_page.com, there is code specific to my site, F code created by cluster_config.com.  Is it legal to edit this file and change things in it ?   F I wanted to bring the pag/swap file back to [SYS11.SYSEXE] so that theD local drive would remain unused so I can run DSSI tests etc etc. But? modifying SATELLITE_PAGE.COM resulted in an error stating those $ page/swap files were already mapped.   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Dec 2005 11:16:36 +0100. From: huber@NOBODY-mppmu.mpg.de (Joseph Huber)4 Subject: Re: Location of initial page and swap files+ Message-ID: <YMwu2ibuBD9w@vms.mppmu.mpg.de>   \ In article <439FDDF9.66377E5F@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:I > When a node boots, how does it know where its first page/swap files are E > to be located ? Does it look in [SYSxx.SYSEXE] for pagefile.sys and E > swapfile.sys (hardcoded names) ? Or is there some file names stored ? > somewhere ? At what stage of booting is this done ? As far as # > startup.com or well before this ?  > F Yes, sys$specific:[sysexe]pagefile.sys and swapfile.sys are hard-codedD in SYSINIT.EXE (and this is before or early in startup.com I think).   I > In [sys11.sysexe]satellite_page.com, there is code specific to my site, H > code created by cluster_config.com.  Is it legal to edit this file and > change things in it ? H > I wanted to bring the pag/swap file back to [SYS11.SYSEXE] so that theF > local drive would remain unused so I can run DSSI tests etc etc. ButA > modifying SATELLITE_PAGE.COM resulted in an error stating those & > page/swap files were already mapped.    H Yes, You can edit those files (satellite_page.com or sypagswpfiles.com).F If you want to use sys$specific:[sysexe]pagefile.sys only, then simplyB delete satellite_page.com (or rename it to save it for later use).C The error message probably results from using the same pagefile.sys  already installed in sysinit.   6 Secondary pagefile installations are usually done from0  sys$startup:vms$device_startup.com in the order*  @satellite_page.com, @sypagswpfiles.com, - but can be done also later in systartup_vms.     --  @    Joseph Huber , Muenchen,Germany:  http://www.huber-joseph.de/   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Dec 2005 07:23:31 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 4 Subject: Re: Location of initial page and swap files3 Message-ID: <TpgZVXP$3f2D@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <439FDDF9.66377E5F@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:I > When a node boots, how does it know where its first page/swap files are E > to be located ? Does it look in [SYSxx.SYSEXE] for pagefile.sys and E > swapfile.sys (hardcoded names) ? Or is there some file names stored ? > somewhere ? At what stage of booting is this done ? As far as # > startup.com or well before this ?   C    I'm pretty sure the first pagefile, swapfile, and dumpfile names >    are hardcoded.  But they'll be skipped if they don't exist.  B    You can't delete them while they're in use, but you can set the4    delete bit (complete the delete after reboot usinD    analyze/disk/repair, or rename them and delete them after reboot.   > I > In [sys11.sysexe]satellite_page.com, there is code specific to my site, H > code created by cluster_config.com.  Is it legal to edit this file and > change things in it ?  >       Yep.    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Dec 2005 09:04:32 -0800* From: "Mark  Round" <mark.round@gmail.com>? Subject: Re: Resale value of ES40 and lots of other VMS systems C Message-ID: <1134579872.350513.155550@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>   & > "Some of these systems could be madeI > available to hobby users for free if the alternative is to skip them. I 2 > don't have room for them all not surprisingly! "  B If you hear of any desktop-form models (like the AlphaStation 500,E AlphaServer 300 etc) that are going begging, please let me know - I'd F love to give an Alpha system a good home (UK-based myself) ! It's justB that I only have a small flat, so am seriously limited in terms of= space (not to mention a significant other who wouldn't be too D enthralled by the idea of a honking great server humming away in theG spare room!) I've been experimenting with SIMH recently, and would love A to get into VMS properly with a system capable of running Java...    -Mark    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Dec 2005 10:21:47 -07001 From: nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett) ? Subject: Re: Resale value of ES40 and lots of other VMS systems , Message-ID: <IkQkhUc1Y$dP@malvm9.mala.bc.ca>  h In article <jCXnf.49408$Ms6.46654@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>, Alan Greig <greigaln@netscape.net> writes: > D > I am currently helping a client dispose of at least 9 VMS systems H > ranging from a MicroVAX 3100/95 through to a 4 processor (EV6 500Mhz) G > ES40 with 1 Gig of RAM and HSJ40 based disk subsystem. I suspect the  H > ES40 is the only system which might still have any significant resale F > value (as far as the client is concerned). Has anyone any idea of a H > ballpark figure for such a system? VMS licenses are included with all 
 > systems. >   A    Island Computer's website shows a single CPU ES40 with 2GB and G a VMS license asking price $9995US (see http://www.hpaq.net/es40.html).   B    There's a 2CPU ES40 up for auction on Ebay today, current price1 $299 ( as-is, no reserve, no bids, no licenses ).   D    Interpolate your system somewhere between those 2 data points. MyD guess is that someone who wants to run commercial VMS on it would beF willing to pay $5-10K for it ( assuming all the licenses are valid and@ transferrable ). For a hobbyist, or for someone who wants to run4 Linux on it, it's probably worth no more than $1000.  @ The 833Mhz ES40s are still pretty pricy but the slower ones are  getting pretty cheap these days    ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 18:28:20 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)+ Subject: Re: saving recovery data with PCSI $ Message-ID: <dnpo84$j61$1@online.de>  G In article <ftsnf.23915$Wo2.23830@trnddc04>, John Santos <john@egh.com>  writes:   D > > If I apply several patches one after the other, no PCSI logicalsI > > defined, and answer the questions so that I can continue, it appears  J > > that if I save data for patch A, then it is deleted by patch B, whose $ > > data are deleted by patch C etc. >  > This is *WRONG*.    D See my previous post where I cut and pasted the output from another G DECterm where I did an installation.  At least, my description matches  / the output, if not that which actually happens.   > > (You aren't deleting the [PCSI$UNDO*] directories, are you?)   I'm not doing anything by hand.    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Dec 2005 01:13:13 -08002 From: "Gerald_Marsh" <gerald.marsh@barclays.co.uk>A Subject: Re: SDA> TCPIP SHO DEV/PORT=n/SOCK displays no BG device C Message-ID: <1134551593.249619.326980@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   5 An update for any sad souls following this thread!...   F The wait state cleared after about 26.5 hours (1600 minutes??). As theC PC had been rebooted, I can assume there must be a timer on the VMS G end. This does not relate to the behaviour we see in the application so C I suspect that the NT side must be closing down its own end after a = much shorter timeout. (We saw lots of NT sockets in CLOSEWT.)   A I'll report this to the supplier so they can pass on to whomever.   3 Thanks for the comments and keep the flag a'flying.      Gerald.          Gerald_Marsh wrote: A > Thank you for that, John. It allowed me to see exactly when the 9 > offending socket was created and a lot of other things!  > G > My experiment over the weekend timed-out. I started another yesterday G > with the Java client and the socket has now been in FIN_WAIT_2 for 24  > hours and 20 minutes!  > A > The "server" side now has the options set but it's not made any  > difference...  > ! >   Options:  KeepAlive,ReuseAddr D >   State:    CantRcvMore,CantSendMore,FrcdLinger,NoFDRef,NoUCB,Priv >   TCPstate: FIN_WAIT_2 >   TCPflags: SentFin,ReqScale >   Special:  None >   RCV Buff: None >   SND Buff: None > I > We have a messy workaround to address the original problem but I'll let * > the group know anything else I find out. > I > (What were the gags you placed in the TCPIP module? Email them if you'd 
 > rather.) > F > Bye for now - I love Usenet for this type of stuff: Direct access to% > the fella who wrote the SDA module!  >  > Thanks again,  >  > 	 > Gerald.  >  >  >  > John Gemignani, Jr. wrote:J > > A BG device will only be present if there is a channel assigned to the
 > > socketI > > by at least one process.  Adding /SOCKET to the TCPIP SHOW command is P > > looking for the socket structure in the memory tables as opposed to scanning< > > the BG device list and linking to the socket from there. > > P > > The socket structure often lingers after close to ensure that it catches all > > packets K > > no matter what path around the globe they took.  Setting REUSEADDR will O > > allow your app to replace the socket before the normal timeout value, which  > > I 0 > > believe is SUPPOSED TO BE about two minutes. > > 5 > > You mentioned something about a terminal session?  > > P > > I did all of the work on the TCPIP SDA extension.  Some people bitched a fewO > > years ago about some of the gags that I had put in there, so I removed them 
 > > beforeP > > I left HP and moved on.  A lot of the commands have a special (undocumented)G > > /DEBUG qualifier that usually displays special information such as:  > > # > >         .... SO at xxxxxxxx ...  > > 6 > > In this case, you can look at the structure using: > > ( > >         FORMAT /TYPE=SOCKET xxxxxxxx > > O > > NOTE: Normally this would be /TYPE=SO, but for some reason the tables built  > > with the netstack M > > called them SOCKETS and not SO.  Check out "TCPIP SHOW MEMORY /TYPES" and 
 > > you'll: > > see a list of types built into the kernel's knowledge. > > L > > (I'm starting to forget a lot of my VMS, so I hope that I got it right.) > > L > > If you want to see all of the socket structures and such, to see if your > > unexplained + > > socket is somewhere in the system, use:  > > F > >         TCPIP SHOW MEMORY /TYPE=SOCKET /COMMAND="FORMAT /TYPE=SO " > >  > > John > > A > > "Gerald_Marsh" <gerald.marsh@barclays.co.uk> wrote in message A > > news:1134143138.914035.319050@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... K > > > I've managed to replicate the problem on the OpenVMS system using the K > > > noddy client and server programs supplied with TCPIP Services. I just H > > > put a big wait in the client before closing the socket. The serverI > > > sends the test string and exits ok - It's socket is in Closewt. The - > > > client immediately goes into FIN_WAIT2.  > > > J > > > If I kill the terminal emulation session, the socket closes ok afterI > > > going into TIME_WAIT for a few minutes. However, if I establish the K > > > same situation from a PC (NT4) using a Java client then the FIN_WAIT2 , > > > persists - even if I power off the PC!K > > > (Java class was cross-compiled from OpenVMS - File transfer was a bit ) > > > of a git but it worked eventually!) I > > > Tried setting KEEPALIVE option but that hasn't made any difference.  > > > D > > > I'll have a look after the weekend to see if it has timed out. > > > . > > > Bye for now and thanks for the comments, > > > 
 > > > Gerald.  > > >  > > >  > > >  > > > Gerald Marsh wrote:  > > >> Hello VMSers  > > >>M > > >> Here's a cracker which maybe should be targetted at the TCPIP brigade.  > > >> > > >> Scenario... > > >>M > > >> OpenVMS process running happilly receiving messages via TCP/IP from NT  > > >> box.  > > >>< > > >> Process fails to respond to messages from NT system -2 > > >> TCPIP> SHO DEV/PORT=n shows no such device. > > >>F > > >> After much web and newsgroups searching, a better command of... > > >>K > > >> SDA>TCPIP SHO DEV/PORT=n/SOCK shows some big hex number and a socket 5 > > >> in FIN_WAIT_2. The BG device no longer exists.  > > >>K > > >> The OpenVMS listener can be STOP/ID'd and refuses to restart because : > > >> of a"addrinuser" error - 48, if I recall correctly. > > >>H > > >> After some random time the situation resolves itselfs - somewhereK > > >> between 42 mins (Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, springs to mind!) M > > >> but can go up to over an hour. No TPCIP Services timer seems to relate J > > >> to this and the supplier of the application - both OpenVMS and NT -  > > >> cannot explain it either! > > >>F > > >> My intellectual capacity cannot handle the well published stateH > > >> diagrams and apply them to our situation.: The socket seems to beI > > >> awaiting a FIN from the other side and then should send it an ACK. E > > >> Some research of the relevant RFC's suggest the damn thing can J > > >> legitimately stay in the FIN_WAIT_2 state for ever as the app couldH > > >> expect to process real info. Cannot undertand that it the app has > > >> called a close()! > > >>M > > >> The supplier - who is very responsive on this but a bit flummoxed - is I > > >> going to go through formal channels but I'm hoping to contact that F > > >> strange combination of a VMS Systems Manager and IP specialist!% > > >> (One of the many black arts??)  > > >> > > >>% > > >> Keep theOpenVMS flag a'flying,  > > >> > > >> Gerald. > > >> > > >> Gerald Marsh  > > >>; > > >> gerald -at_Sign- cyfer -dot- demon -dot- co -dot- uk 3 > > >> (And I really get miffed having to do that!)  > > >    ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 12:30:40 +0000 (UTC) ? From: Graham Burley <burley.not-this@encompasserve-or-this.org>  Subject: Re: SRM memtest9 Message-ID: <43A01007.1432F4C5@encompasserve-or-this.org>    J.C. Roberts wrote:  >   8 > Yes. The memtest process sits in a "waiting on" state.  & Wish we new what it was waiting on ;-)  F > My problem is INIT will never complete because the machine has a newG > drive without any OS installed. I get to a repeating boot failure for ; > the disk and have to CTRL-C out of the init and into SRM.   A Set the SRM console variable AUTO_ACTION to HALT, that'll stop it ! trying to boot when you start it.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 06:09:32 -0800 % From: J.C. Roberts <unknown@abac.com>  Subject: Re: SRM memtest8 Message-ID: <5s90q1pb9q75o5jj7hjhgdsu4nfd43ugl9@4ax.com>  C On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 16:00:02 -0800, J.C. Roberts <unknown@abac.com>  wrote:  H >I noticed something odd on an Alpha Personal Workstation 433 that I gotF >off of eBay. The ARC/AlphaBIOS would occasionally report 256MB ratherG >than the usual 384MB. This weirdness was intermittent. I have reseated H >everything in the system to make sure there are no connection/connectorC >issues but I think it would be prudent to actually test the memory  >itself. > F >I kicked the system into SRM Console mode and I've been trying to runE >memtest to no avail. I believe *I* am the real problem since I don't H >know what the heck I'm doing in SRM in spite of the fact that I've read >the SRM Console user guide.M >http://ftp.digital.com/pub/Digital/info/semiconductor/literature/srmcons.pdf  > ' >The SRM version is v7.2-1  Mar 6, 2000  > I >Running even the most simple tests seems to basically lock up the system I >since the command fails to ever exit even if you let it run for a couple $ >hours to try completing two passes. >  >  >>> memtest -rb -p 2  > G >If you background the memtest process and run show_status, it seems to  >pass at least once? >  >  >>> memtest -rb -p 2 &  >  >>> show_statusA >  ID        Program   Device   Pass   Hard/Soft   Written   Read B >  -------- --------- -------- ------ ----------- --------- ------B >  00000001      idle system       0      0    0         0      0 B >  0000004F   memtest memory       1      0    0         0      0  >  > 9 >Using >>>kill_diags afterwards only locks up the system.  > H >I've searched around for more detailed instructions on the web. I found' >a cryptic post to the DebianAlpha list ; >http://lists.debian.org/debian-alpha/2004/11/msg00064.html  >  >It mentions using >  >>>>dynamic -r > D >to figure out values to use with memtest switches but I still don'tF >understand what was meant. The whole "zone" thing is a mystery. WorseD >yet, the SRM Console user guide doesn't even mention "dynamic" as a> >command and the man/help pages in the SRM itself are useless. > E >I've reduced the system memory to 128MB (two DIMS) so I can test the D >pairs and by accident I figured out which pair is bad (i.e. running; >"dynamic -h" by mistake resulted in errors with one pair).  > 6 >When you guys use memtest properly, how do you do it? >  >Thanks, >JCR  E My apologies for replying to myself, but I've had a few people ask me E off list to make the answer public if I ever manage to figure it out. E I've been working on this for a week, reading docs, searching the web F and asking around on OpenVMS, FreeBSD, OpenBSD, NetBSD and linux lists and groups.   G With the help of Graham Burley on comp.os.vms an answer for the problem G with the SRM MEMTEST and MEMORY commands failing to run has been found. D The WRITTEN and READ portions of the SHOW_STATUS output (above) were4 telling us that the tests were not actually running.  F This system probably came out of a "secure" site (i.e. government), soD it was sold to me without a hard drive. Though I had installed a newD disk, there was no OS or bootable partition on it (an old 4.5GB data? drive with an NTFS partition -this becomes relevant later), and B obviously, there was nothing for the SRM to boot to in the system.  5 When booting to SRM I got the expected error messages      CPU 0 booting   !   (boot dka0.0.0.1009.0 -flags A) 6   block 0 of dka0.0.0.1009.0 is not a valid boot block   bootstrap failure      Retrying, type ^C to abort...   A Basically, it's an endless loop of trying to boot to the disk, so F I had always just been following instructions and using ^C to get intoE the SRM console to run the memory tests. This ^C is the main cause of F the memory testing problems I mentioned above because by aborting, the  system/SRM is _not_ initialized.  C If you're having problems with either MEMORY or MEMTEST do a ps (or D CTRL-T) and look at the status of the MEMTEST lines. If you see themC stuck with "WAITING ON" you know your system/SRM was not completely  initialized.  F If you run INIT at this point, you just end up with the same bootstrapE failures and ^C issue as before, so you need to change how the system  boots before running INIT.     >>>set auto_action halt 	   >>>init   < This gets you to a nice, clean SRM console that's been fullyB initialized. At this point MEMORY and MEMTEST commands should workH properly. You can tell they are working by the WRITTEN and READ portionsG of the SHOW_STATUS output. If the -p switch has a value of zero, memory G tests will run until you tell them to stop with the KILL_DIAGS command.   A By the way, if you want to see what the "normal" switches are for 2 running MEMTEST you can look at the MEMORY script.     >>>cat memory     H So the system passed it's memory tests and all was well until I rebootedE the system. This put me into AlphaBIOS/ARC for some strange reason. I H didn't think it was a big deal so I did the usual to switch back to SRM:     F2         (Setup)   CMOS Setup   F6         (Advanced) B   Console Selection: "UNIX Console SRM" (or "OPENVMS Console SRM")   F10        (save)    F10        (save)    ESC        (exit)    
   power cycle    C For some strange reason I ended up in AlphaBIOS/ARC again? This was F weird so I did the steps again, cold booted again, and sure enough, it& _still_ came up in AlphaBIOS/ARC mode?  G The reason why the darn thing refused to go into SRM mode is because of B that old NTFS partition on the disk. Once I deleted that partitionG through the AlphaBIOS, I could finally reset the "Console Selection" to  SRM and have it work.   E Hopefully this information will help the next person trying to figure 0 out why their memtest isn't working as expected.  
 Kind Regards,  JCR                --3 |   Patches to developers are like lights to moths; 3 |   "Ooohhh PATCHES! Look at the pretty patches..." ? |   You can expect them to just circle for a while and even if  > |   they never commit, you'll definitely have their attention.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 09:50:31 -0500 # From: "Dan Allen" <dallen@nist.gov> 9 Subject: RE: Timeout strategy: terminal vs Telnet drivers : Message-ID: <JFEPKAPBPMDFDBOIANGDKEJGHBAA.dallen@nist.gov>   > -----Original Message-----6 > From: Larry Kilgallen [mailto:Kilgallen@SpamCop.net]* > Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 4:03 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ; > Subject: RE: Timeout strategy: terminal vs Telnet drivers  >  > A > In article <JFEPKAPBPMDFDBOIANGDIEINHBAA.dallen@nist.gov>, "Dan " > Allen" <dallen@nist.gov> writes: > >  > >  > >> -----Original Message----- I > >> From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu [mailto:bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu]On  > >> Behalf Of Bill Gunshannon- > >> Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 9:07 AM  > >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com> > >> Subject: Re: Timeout strategy: terminal vs Telnet drivers > >> > >>8 > >> In article <AmxMupoFC8Ku@eisner.encompasserve.org>,5 > >> 	Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: J > >> > In article <1134454677.069668.171280@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,! > >> dooleys@snowy.net.au writes:  > >> >> > >> >> a telnet packet is sent for every keystroke (and echo) > >> >B > >> > What better argument could there be for DECnet's SET HOST ? > >>M > >> Why?  First, it is not necessarily an accurate description of how telnet 4 > >> works and second, some applications require it. > >>	 > >> bill  > > D > > Exactly - the Telnet application may WRITE individual characters > but the TCP/IP@ > > layer may or may not send them as individual packets. TTBOMK > applications have M > > no control over that phase of the network exchange - and for good reason.  > G > The context was "keystroke" and "echo", thus unrelated to application 	 > output.  >   J The context was Telnet which IS an application (client and server) wrt TCP connections.  B > Applications have control over character input when they specifyD > the termination characters they want honored.  VMS SET HOST passesE > that information on to the system where the user is located and the D > transmission is made only when the requirements of the applicationF > have been satisfied.  "Tell me after every character" is a possible,A > but rarely useful, possible set of requirements, even for TECO.  >   M I fail to see your distinction. Telnet and TCP are no different - they behave P the same way. If you don't want the remote Telnet server to echo your keystrokesN just turn it off. If you want your local Telnet client to echo your keystrokesP turn it on. If you want Telnet to defer transmitting keystrokes until you hit CR turn it on.   L None of that changes the fact that the TCP (and Decnet) transport layer willP decide how to best packetize that data when it is actually sent over the network link - not the "applications".   Dan    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Dec 2005 09:15:09 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 9 Subject: RE: Timeout strategy: terminal vs Telnet drivers 3 Message-ID: <6f$8y0P6gXZF@eisner.encompasserve.org>   < Please do not send me Discourtesy copies of newsgroup posts.  ` In article <JFEPKAPBPMDFDBOIANGDKEJGHBAA.dallen@nist.gov>, "Dan Allen" <dallen@nist.gov> writes: >  >  >> -----Original Message----- 7 >> From: Larry Kilgallen [mailto:Kilgallen@SpamCop.net] + >> Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 4:03 PM  >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com< >> Subject: RE: Timeout strategy: terminal vs Telnet drivers >> >>B >> In article <JFEPKAPBPMDFDBOIANGDIEINHBAA.dallen@nist.gov>, "Dan# >> Allen" <dallen@nist.gov> writes:   T >> > Exactly - the Telnet application may WRITE individual characters but the TCP/IPS >> > layer may or may not send them as individual packets. TTBOMK applications have N >> > no control over that phase of the network exchange - and for good reason. >>H >> The context was "keystroke" and "echo", thus unrelated to application
 >> output. >> > L > The context was Telnet which IS an application (client and server) wrt TCP > connections. > C >> Applications have control over character input when they specify E >> the termination characters they want honored.  VMS SET HOST passes F >> that information on to the system where the user is located and theE >> transmission is made only when the requirements of the application G >> have been satisfied.  "Tell me after every character" is a possible, B >> but rarely useful, possible set of requirements, even for TECO. >> > O > I fail to see your distinction. Telnet and TCP are no different - they behave  > the same way.    But DECnet on VMS is different.   D > If you don't want the remote Telnet server to echo your keystrokesP > just turn it off. If you want your local Telnet client to echo your keystrokesR > turn it on. If you want Telnet to defer transmitting keystrokes until you hit CR
 > turn it on.   E That involves some manual fiddling on the part of the user, or else a 1 program specifically written for use with Telnet.   N > None of that changes the fact that the TCP (and Decnet) transport layer willR > decide how to best packetize that data when it is actually sent over the network  > link - not the "applications".  D No, SET HOST responds to what the _application_ has told TTDRIVER --@ transmitting after the characters <SOH>, <VT>, but not <CR> (forH example), and provides all the keyboard characters to the TCP connectionD in a single group.  Yes, TCP could divide it for packet size limits,C but it will not be dividing it based on typing speed (for example).   B SET HOST performs local echo (or not) depending on the QIO control9 settings by the application at the other end of the pile.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 12:19:34 -0500 # From: "Dan Allen" <dallen@nist.gov> 9 Subject: RE: Timeout strategy: terminal vs Telnet drivers : Message-ID: <JFEPKAPBPMDFDBOIANGDMEJJHBAA.dallen@nist.gov>   > -----Original Message-----6 > From: Larry Kilgallen [mailto:Kilgallen@SpamCop.net]- > Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 10:15 AM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ; > Subject: RE: Timeout strategy: terminal vs Telnet drivers  >  >  Noted. > A > In article <JFEPKAPBPMDFDBOIANGDKEJGHBAA.dallen@nist.gov>, "Dan " > Allen" <dallen@nist.gov> writes: > >  > >  > >> -----Original Message----- 9 > >> From: Larry Kilgallen [mailto:Kilgallen@SpamCop.net] - > >> Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 4:03 PM  > >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com> > >> Subject: RE: Timeout strategy: terminal vs Telnet drivers > >> > >>D > >> In article <JFEPKAPBPMDFDBOIANGDIEINHBAA.dallen@nist.gov>, "Dan% > >> Allen" <dallen@nist.gov> writes:  > G > >> > Exactly - the Telnet application may WRITE individual characters  > but the TCP/IPC > >> > layer may or may not send them as individual packets. TTBOMK  > applications have P > >> > no control over that phase of the network exchange - and for good reason. > >>J > >> The context was "keystroke" and "echo", thus unrelated to application > >> output. > >> > > N > > The context was Telnet which IS an application (client and server) wrt TCP > > connections. > > E > >> Applications have control over character input when they specify G > >> the termination characters they want honored.  VMS SET HOST passes H > >> that information on to the system where the user is located and theG > >> transmission is made only when the requirements of the application I > >> have been satisfied.  "Tell me after every character" is a possible, D > >> but rarely useful, possible set of requirements, even for TECO. > >> > > E > > I fail to see your distinction. Telnet and TCP are no different - 
 > they behave  > > the same way.  > ! > But DECnet on VMS is different.  >   O OK I read the description of the "SET HOST facility" in the V5 I/O user's guide # and I'm now a better person for it.   F > > If you don't want the remote Telnet server to echo your keystrokesG > > just turn it off. If you want your local Telnet client to echo your  > keystrokesC > > turn it on. If you want Telnet to defer transmitting keystrokes  > until you hit CR > > turn it on.  > G > That involves some manual fiddling on the part of the user, or else a 3 > program specifically written for use with Telnet.  > P > > None of that changes the fact that the TCP (and Decnet) transport layer willC > > decide how to best packetize that data when it is actually sent  > over the network" > > link - not the "applications". > F > No, SET HOST responds to what the _application_ has told TTDRIVER --B > transmitting after the characters <SOH>, <VT>, but not <CR> (forJ > example), and provides all the keyboard characters to the TCP connectionF > in a single group.  Yes, TCP could divide it for packet size limits,E > but it will not be dividing it based on typing speed (for example).  >   P I see your point now that I have reviewed the SET HOST section of the I/O User'sJ Guide. My understanding is that CTDRIVER replaces/augments TTDRIVER on theN remote system and _automatically_ performs output buffering before the data isL handed off to the network transport layer. Very handy and TTBOMK there is no equivalent capabilty in Telnet.   D > SET HOST performs local echo (or not) depending on the QIO control; > settings by the application at the other end of the pile.   H Does DCL disable echo on the remote system when it's reading/writing theL connection? If not, does that mean the connection behaves the same as TelnetO when the user's at the $ prompt? It would also seem that editors benefit little P from this functionality. In fact I'd think they would disable CTDRIVER buffering altogether.    Dan    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Dec 2005 05:56:56 -0600B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)% Subject: UK VMS HP contract customers 3 Message-ID: <6LUQSyIwp+vw@eisner.encompasserve.org>   F Those of you who are HP contract customers in the UK and have upcomingH contract renewals may want to check that you have actually received your renewal contracts.  E It appears that my contracts never got sent out and may have been due  to HP staff changeovers.  G I would be interested in knowing if anyone else had problems, or if I'm  just a one-off.    Simon.   --  ; Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP I If Google's motto is "do no wrong", then how did we get Google Groups 2 ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 09:03:49 -0500 C From: "David Turner, Island Computers US Corp" <dbturner@icusc.com> ) Subject: Re: UK VMS HP contract customers 9 Message-ID: <FvVnf.16454$MA2.6628@bignews6.bellsouth.net>   H I heard in the USA that several platforms have had suport canned on them   DS10 DS20 DS20e ES40   Anyone able to confirm that?   David    --     David B Turner Island Computers US Corp 2700 Gregory St, Suite 180 Savannah GA 31404  Tel: 912 447 6622 X201 Cell: 912 447 6622 X252  Fax: 912 201 0402  Email: dbturner@icusc.com  Web: http://www.islandco.com% ===================================== < All orders are subject to the following terms and conditions. of sale. These should be read before ordering.% http://www.islandco.com/warranty.html   L "Graham Burley" <burley.not-this@encompasserve-or-this.org> wrote in message3 news:43A015AC.75A46E1A@encompasserve-or-this.org...  > Simon Clubley wrote: > >  > K > > I would be interested in knowing if anyone else had problems, or if I'm  > > just a one-off.  >  > You're not alone.  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 09:05:19 -0500 * From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>) Subject: Re: UK VMS HP contract customers , Message-ID: <43a0269f$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  J Eh?  What do you mean by "support canned"?  I have not heard such a thing,C and would be suprised.  We're still "supporting" VAXes, and DEC3000  Turbochannel machines.  4 Can you be more specific, and we'll try to find out.    F "David Turner, Island Computers US Corp" <dbturner@icusc.com> wrote in; message news:FvVnf.16454$MA2.6628@bignews6.bellsouth.net... J > I heard in the USA that several platforms have had suport canned on them >  > DS10 DS20 DS20e ES40 >  > Anyone able to confirm that? >  > David  >  > --   >  > David B Turner > Island Computers US Corp > 2700 Gregory St, Suite 180 > Savannah GA 31404  > Tel: 912 447 6622 X201 > Cell: 912 447 6622 X252  > Fax: 912 201 0402  > Email: dbturner@icusc.com  > Web: http://www.islandco.com' > ===================================== > > All orders are subject to the following terms and conditions0 > of sale. These should be read before ordering.' > http://www.islandco.com/warranty.html  > F > "Graham Burley" <burley.not-this@encompasserve-or-this.org> wrote in message 5 > news:43A015AC.75A46E1A@encompasserve-or-this.org...  > > Simon Clubley wrote: > > >  > > I > > > I would be interested in knowing if anyone else had problems, or if  I'm  > > > just a one-off.  > >  > > You're not alone.  > >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 11:09:17 -0500 C From: "David Turner, Island Computers US Corp" <dbturner@icusc.com> ) Subject: Re: UK VMS HP contract customers 8 Message-ID: <gnXnf.8187$kP5.3530@bignews5.bellsouth.net>  9 i have had 4 customers in the last 3 days tell me this on  DS10 and DS20/DS20e?  < Another customer said he could not get a renewal on his ES40  I I am not mentioning any names, but these are pretty good sized companies. L If someone could point us to the appropriate people to ask directly it would be appreciated. 9 When I say support, I mean HARDWARE MAINTENANCE CONTRACTS    David    --     David B Turner Island Computers US Corp 2700 Gregory St, Suite 180 Savannah GA 31404  Tel: 912 447 6622 X201 Cell: 912 447 6622 X252  Fax: 912 201 0402  Email: dbturner@icusc.com  Web: http://www.islandco.com% ===================================== < All orders are subject to the following terms and conditions. of sale. These should be read before ordering.% http://www.islandco.com/warranty.html   5 "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca> wrote in message * news:11q0bb16nd5999b@corp.supernews.com... > 7 > "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca> wrote in message , > news:11q0a2iin7e52dc@corp.supernews.com... > > J > they said there was no plan (yet) to stop supporting those before end of > 2001 >  > That's 2011 of course. > S. >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 11:43:38 -0500 * From: "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca>) Subject: Re: UK VMS HP contract customers 0 Message-ID: <11q0it8451lni5d@corp.supernews.com>  G "David Turner, Island Computers US Corp" <dbturner@icusc.com> wrote in  : message news:gnXnf.8187$kP5.3530@bignews5.bellsouth.net...: >i have had 4 customers in the last 3 days tell me this on > DS10 and DS20/DS20e? > > > Another customer said he could not get a renewal on his ES40 > K > I am not mentioning any names, but these are pretty good sized companies. I > If someone could point us to the appropriate people to ask directly it   > would  > be appreciated. ; > When I say support, I mean HARDWARE MAINTENANCE CONTRACTS  >  > David  >   K We are currently reviewing the contract proposal (for hw maintenance) from   HP.    I will keep an eye on this.    Syltrem    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.695 ************************