1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 15 Dec 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 696       Contents: Re: Adopting 3 stray Vaxen :-) Re: Appletalk on VMS 7.3-2+ Clustering: switches reliability/redundancy / RE: Clustering: switches reliability/redundancy  DECnet IV over Multinet Circuit # Re: DECnet IV over Multinet Circuit # Re: DECnet IV over Multinet Circuit # Re: DECnet IV over Multinet Circuit ) Re: DS10L hardware configuration question  Re: ES40 RAID: Mylex KZPAC ?& Re: Help: SYS$ACM is driving me nuts!! Re: HP's strategy explained :  Re: HP's strategy explained :  Re: java OutOfMemoryError " Re: M e z e i kooks out again.....C Re: PCI-based 8 port Synchronous controller(PBXDP-AC) configuration 6 Re: Resale value of ES40 and lots of other VMS systems6 Re: Resale value of ES40 and lots of other VMS systems" Re: saving recovery data with PCSI Re: shadowing questions  Re: shadowing questions  Re: SRM memtest  Re: SRM memtest  Re: SRM memtest  Re: SRM memtest  Re: SRM memtest  Re: Storageworks shelves Re: Storageworks shelves Re: Storageworks shelves Re: Storageworks shelves Re: Storageworks shelves Re: Storageworks shelves0 RE: Timeout strategy: terminal vs Telnet drivers  Re: UK VMS HP contract customers Upgrading TCPIP  Re: Upgrading TCPIP " Re: Yellow pages poorly designed ?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 14 Dec 2005 21:51:49 GMT From: healyzh@aracnet.com ' Subject: Re: Adopting 3 stray Vaxen :-) + Message-ID: <dnq45l2c2k@enews2.newsguy.com>   . Larry Kilgallen <Kilgallen@spamcop.net> wrote:5 > In article <439FDC98.D66729@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei ) > <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:  L > > Yesterday was a big day. I adopted 3 stray VAXes, a 400-500a (which saysD > > it is a -600a when booted), 2 400-200s, and a DSSI disk cabinet.  B > I got such a cabinet and found that my 780 key worked just fine.  L Is this the same key as works on PDP-8/M's and F's, as well as PDP-11/44's? I If so it should be fairly easy to just take the key # to a locksmith from 5 what I hear (I really should as I only have one key).    		Zane   ------------------------------   Date: 14 Dec 2005 22:01:20 GMT From: healyzh@aracnet.com # Subject: Re: Appletalk on VMS 7.3-2 + Message-ID: <dnq4ng3c2k@enews2.newsguy.com>   1 Chris Sharman <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam> wrote:  > Ed Wilts wrote: H > > It worked fine for us before some of the 7.3-2 patches were applied. > > A > > Any issues in AppleTalk need to be fixed by the maintainer of ? > > AppleTalk.  Unfortunately, there is no active maintainer...   5 > Did you get any further with this issue from July ? E > Did you identify the problem patch, or find a workaround, or what ?   I > I'd like to move up to a supported version, but I really don't want to   > break appletalk.  K What are you using Appletalk for?  I use it for accessing a couple of disks G from my Mac, and for printing to a printer on an Ethertalk-to-Localtalk H converter.  However, becuase of the news it breaks with one of the 7.3-2L patches, and because if I upgrade to Mac OS X 10.4.x I can't talk to classicH Appletalk I recently installed a recent version of Samba, and unlike theJ antique version I was running, I'm able to use Samba Shares from the Mac.   K I've also got a print server laying around that will support both Appletalk G and other protocols for printing, I've had it for years, but have never K bothered to install it since the existing solution works.  I'll have to get # that installed one of these months.   K I'd be interested in knowing what patches break the Appletalk support, as I 4 really need to get the patches on my system updated.   			Zane    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 15:43:45 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 4 Subject: Clustering: switches reliability/redundancy, Message-ID: <43A083F9.FD2F8780@teksavvy.com>  E In the very old days, one depended on the AUI to Thickwire device for F each node. Failure would break the connection of one node and possibly jeoperdize quorum.  H Then came thinwire which was totally inert and as long as nobody touched( the wire, it was not a point of failure.  E (although many would argue otherwise in practice, but in theory there  was nothing to fail).   G Then comes along twister pair with the hub and later switches. Hubs and  switches are powered.     E Are there considerations if a cluster nodes are all connected via the A same switch/hub ? It the later fails, the whole cluster hangs and  becomes inaccessible.   F Are hubs/switches considered "fault tolerant"  ? If not, what possible> steps would a good site planner take to ensure a cluster isn't$ jeoperdized by some $50 switch/hub ?  9 Are hubs considered more "fault tolerant" than switches ?   G Is it just a simple case of reserving spare ports on a backup switch so D that cluster ethernet connectiosn can be moved one by one before the4 main switch/hub is powered off for maintenance etc ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 17:35:34 -0500 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> 8 Subject: RE: Clustering: switches reliability/redundancyR Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB7735F5@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----9 > From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com]=20 ! > Sent: December 14, 2005 3:44 PM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 6 > Subject: Clustering: switches reliability/redundancy >=20G > In the very old days, one depended on the AUI to Thickwire device for H > each node. Failure would break the connection of one node and possibly > jeoperdize quorum. >=20> > Then came thinwire which was totally inert and as long as=20 > nobody touched* > the wire, it was not a point of failure. >=20G > (although many would argue otherwise in practice, but in theory there  > was nothing to fail).  >=209 > Then comes along twister pair with the hub and later=20  > switches. Hubs and > switches are powered.  >=20 >=20G > Are there considerations if a cluster nodes are all connected via the C > same switch/hub ? It the later fails, the whole cluster hangs and  > becomes inaccessible.=20 >=20H > Are hubs/switches considered "fault tolerant"  ? If not, what possible@ > steps would a good site planner take to ensure a cluster isn't& > jeoperdized by some $50 switch/hub ? >=20; > Are hubs considered more "fault tolerant" than switches ?  >=20B > Is it just a simple case of reserving spare ports on a backup=20 > switch so F > that cluster ethernet connectiosn can be moved one by one before the6 > main switch/hub is powered off for maintenance etc ? >=20   JF,   E Simple solution is to establish VLAN between 2 trunked switch/routers F and use separate NIC connections to each from each server. This causesF the switch to appear as a logical unit or virtual cluster interconnectG box. Entire switch/rtr fails and OpenVMS cluster keeps running i.e. not ( even any application failover issues.=20  G With the right IP failover config's in place, you would not even lose a  telnet connection.=20   A OpenVMS will load balance SCS across all configured and available F connections. By configured I mean not disabled with the SCACP utility.   Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  4 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.   ------------------------------   Date: 14 Dec 2005 21:37:15 GMT From: healyzh@aracnet.com ( Subject: DECnet IV over Multinet Circuit+ Message-ID: <dnq3ab0c2k@enews2.newsguy.com>   E I'm trying to figure out how to resolve a problem with connecting two J Hobbyist systems using DECnet Phase IV over Multinet.  We have it working,H but it won't work reliably.  After a very short time the circuit will go/ down, and won't come back up without some work.   6 I can get it back up if I do the following on the VAX:% MCR NCP SET CIRCUIT TCP-0-0 STATE OFF   ) Then wait a few minutes and then issue a: $ MCR NCP SET CIRCUIT TCP-0-0 STATE ON  G The circuit will stay up for a few minutes.  I was able to log into the F remote system and log out, but a couple minutes later the circuit was 
 back down.  I On another try of this, I logged in and fired up MONITOR SYSTEM, and have J left it running.  As a result the line has been active for about 16 hours  now.  L So it appears that as long as there is activity on the circuit, it will stayK up, but as soon as there isn't any activity for a short time, it will drop, < and then requires the above trick to get it to come back up.  H I don't know if this is an issue with DECnet, Multinet, or the Firewalls# that are between the two systems.     # Does anyone have any ideas on this?    		Zane   ------------------------------   Date: 14 Dec 2005 22:13:41 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon), Subject: Re: DECnet IV over Multinet Circuit, Message-ID: <40bjolF19t6s1U2@individual.net>  + In article <dnq3ab0c2k@enews2.newsguy.com>,  	healyzh@aracnet.com writes:G > I'm trying to figure out how to resolve a problem with connecting two L > Hobbyist systems using DECnet Phase IV over Multinet.  We have it working,J > but it won't work reliably.  After a very short time the circuit will go1 > down, and won't come back up without some work.  > 8 > I can get it back up if I do the following on the VAX:' > MCR NCP SET CIRCUIT TCP-0-0 STATE OFF  > + > Then wait a few minutes and then issue a: & > MCR NCP SET CIRCUIT TCP-0-0 STATE ON > I > The circuit will stay up for a few minutes.  I was able to log into the H > remote system and log out, but a couple minutes later the circuit was  > back down. > K > On another try of this, I logged in and fired up MONITOR SYSTEM, and have L > left it running.  As a result the line has been active for about 16 hours  > now. > N > So it appears that as long as there is activity on the circuit, it will stayM > up, but as soon as there isn't any activity for a short time, it will drop, > > and then requires the above trick to get it to come back up. > J > I don't know if this is an issue with DECnet, Multinet, or the Firewalls% > that are between the two systems.    > % > Does anyone have any ideas on this?  >   H Our networking people installed a (industry standard) firewall here someF time ago that has turned TCPIP in to a stateful protocol.  That is, itH actually tracks sessions running through it and if a session is inactiveK for a (operator defined) period of time it stops passing data for it should H it become active again.  A real braindead idea, but I don;t have controlI over it and it has forced me to institute keep-alives on all our remotely F accessable servers even knowing and agreeing with Karn and Jacobsen onE "Keep-alives, a bad idea".  (We won't even go into the fact that this J results in exactly the supposed network problem they claim it was intended
 to prevent!!)    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 21:34:06 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> , Subject: Re: DECnet IV over Multinet Circuit0 Message-ID: <11q1ldrp4uc5508@corp.supernews.com>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:   > J > Our networking people installed a (industry standard) firewall here someH > time ago that has turned TCPIP in to a stateful protocol.  That is, itJ > actually tracks sessions running through it and if a session is inactiveM > for a (operator defined) period of time it stops passing data for it should J > it become active again.  A real braindead idea, but I don;t have controlK > over it and it has forced me to institute keep-alives on all our remotely H > accessable servers even knowing and agreeing with Karn and Jacobsen onG > "Keep-alives, a bad idea".  (We won't even go into the fact that this L > results in exactly the supposed network problem they claim it was intended > to prevent!!)   @ While the general concept of anything's possible, many times we G determine that some things just aren't to be tolerated.  Up until this  G point in time, I could not come up with an ethical and good reason for  J slavery.  I have now realized that there can be valid reasons for slavery.  ? Anyone described as a 'network person' should be a slave.  The  E alternative is the chaos we now see where the inmates run the asylum.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------   Date: 15 Dec 2005 04:56:35 GMT From: healyzh@aracnet.com , Subject: Re: DECnet IV over Multinet Circuit, Message-ID: <dnqt2301h1g@enews3.newsguy.com>  ) Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote: J > Our networking people installed a (industry standard) firewall here someH > time ago that has turned TCPIP in to a stateful protocol.  That is, itJ > actually tracks sessions running through it and if a session is inactiveM > for a (operator defined) period of time it stops passing data for it should J > it become active again.  A real braindead idea, but I don;t have controlK > over it and it has forced me to institute keep-alives on all our remotely    Bill, L Thanks!  That's exactly what the problem was, since I *do* have control overI this firewall, I up'd the timeouts to 5 minutes 30 seconds, and it's been L working for an hour or two.  Something tells me your networking people might4 be using the same software I'm using for a firewall.  	 		Thanks, 
 		    Zane   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Dec 2005 13:46:53 -0800 From: graphicdave@gmail.com 2 Subject: Re: DS10L hardware configuration questionC Message-ID: <1134596813.666168.288570@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>    David,E You used to have those readers on the website. I seem to have trouble G finding them now. I was starting to wonder if you stopped selling them. A Would you post a price list or do I need to contact you directly?    Big Dave   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 20:45:40 GMT 6 From: "Andy Bustamante" <a_c_bustamante@earthlink.net>% Subject: Re: ES40 RAID: Mylex KZPAC ? = Message-ID: <Uv%nf.33673$q%.20935@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>   L Adding another two cents worth.  As earlier replies state, these controllersI are limited to smaller  disk and can only create logical units limited to G under 32 gb.  They are reasonably reliable, but configuration take take J prolonged downtime to set up and modify.  "Hot spare" disks sometimes needK to be manually failed in, which can mean taking the system down and running L the controller configuration utility.  I still have these in production use,L but would second looking for a more up to date solution.  There are some lowF end 1 gb fibre channel options that are more flexible and will provide better availability.   --       Andy Bustamante  Remove the ASCII 95s for e-mail     : "Shahin Yaz" <Shahinyaz@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message< news:1134553217.568519.94740@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...G > We need to add RAID to an ES40 667MHz server, and are considering the F > options. While attractively priced I have heard that the KZPAC's areC > not reliable and I should avoid them if possible. Can anyone with 1 > experience of these controllers please advise ?  >  > Thanks, Shahin >    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Dec 2005 12:52:22 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) / Subject: Re: Help: SYS$ACM is driving me nuts!! 3 Message-ID: <zwoBYDo6E32g@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ` In article <QsV3E0ThHHjJ@malvm9.mala.bc.ca>, nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett) writes:6 > In article <A5TAOQOypgRb@eisner.encompasserve.org>, 5 >     Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:  > < >> In article <439FEE4E.67C335E8@encompasserve-or-this.org>,H >      Graham Burley <burley.not-this@encompasserve-or-this.org> writes: >>> F >>> By passing a context longword with a value of -1 you're asking for) >>> dialogue mode when you don't want it.  > = >    Doh! Thanks, I took out the context argument and now the 
 > code works.  >  >>  B >> But there should be no dialogue if there is nothing to discuss. >>   > D >   That was my thought. However removing the context argument makesC > the code work. I would have expected that with a context argument D > there it would have supplied those output messages for informationF > purposes but would still have proceeded to process the login ( since( > it had all the information it needed )  < I believe it wants a callback after which it will return the "all done" status.  B >> I would be suspicious of the context area item that "appears to' >> be blank".   What is the item code ?   = > the item code is 8192 ( same as the welcome message ). If I @ > understand the documentation ( a somewhat shaky premise ) thatB > means it's an output code. So I have no idea what SYS$ACM thinksC > the empty string signifies, but it's apparently not asking me for  > further information.  3 I believe that is a "blank line" after the message.   C >> As far as network logins getting SYS$ANNOUNCE, that is perfectly E >> reasonable.  Consider those messages about "you may be monitored". E >> Transmitting that for a network access could be quite appropriate, % >> even though DECnet does not do it.  > G >    I agree it's fine to return the messages so that the login program D > can do what it will with them, however I would have expected it toC > also process the login. The documentation states that providing a B > logon type of "NETWORK" specifically signals that no dialogue isB > possible, so if SYS$ACM is given adequate information to process> > the login I would expect it to do so, and simply return the 0 > announcement message for information purposes.  C If you are in dialog mode you are supposed to keep calling ACM over C and over again until it is done.  One more try should have done it.    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Dec 2005 14:43:37 -0800 From: mark_hpq@yahoo.com& Subject: Re: HP's strategy explained :B Message-ID: <1134600217.498950.61910@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>   Latest news on the layoffs :   http://hpwfr.blogspot.com/   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 15:24:36 -0800 ' From: "ynotssor" <ynotssor@example.net> & Subject: Re: HP's strategy explained :, Message-ID: <40bntmF19d05qU1@individual.net>  % <mark_hpq@yahoo.com> wrote in message < news:1134600217.498950.61910@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...   > Latest news on the layoffs : > http://hpwfr.blogspot.com/  E "HP will also try to take advantage of a shift towards decentralised, H low-cost corporate IT systems, or 'data centre architectures', which areH less labour-intensive but require more sophisticated management software& than traditional mainframe computers."  6 Hurd is about 15 years behind-the-times on that model.   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Dec 2005 15:19:53 -0800' From: "tadamsmar" <tadamsmar@yahoo.com> " Subject: Re: java OutOfMemoryErrorB Message-ID: <1134602393.309968.62040@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>  * I got my app to work by specifying -Xmx16m  
 Thanks again!    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 04:19:10 GMT  From: "Pavel" <none@none.com> + Subject: Re: M e z e i kooks out again..... - Message-ID: <296of.110964$ki.108815@pd7tw2no>   F That's how some people get their kicks and propagate the bs.  This is ) just one reason why I prefer top posting.   ; "Geoffrey Welsh" <reply@newsgroup.please> wrote in message  . news:e8040$4399e75c$cf7045a6$7710@PRIMUS.CA... : Gregory Morrow wrote:  : > Nomen Nescio wrote: 	 : > [...] C : > Oh my, is all this stuff *really* true?  Pretty wierd if it is!  : H : It's rude enough to quote an entire long message just to add one line  ofI : commentary but you had to quote in its entirety the pollution that 99%   of> : the readers of these groups had blocked.  Thanks, you moron.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 23:47:16 -0000 < From: "Alex Daniels" <AlexNOSPAMTHANKSDaniels@themail.co.uk>L Subject: Re: PCI-based 8 port Synchronous controller(PBXDP-AC) configuration6 Message-ID: <43a0af08$0$23287$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>  * "cb" <chekban@gmail.com> wrote in message = news:1133747842.970739.119080@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... H > Hi i'm looking for the user manual of "PBXDP-AC"      PCI-based 8 portI > Synchronous controller (8-port, Serial Interface with RS232 (V.24/V.28) H > 6-foot octopus cable. Individual ports may be further configured using& > one of the following adapters/port.) > D > The configuration of this card in Alpha Tru64 for X.25 OSI stacks. > D > Can anyone provide any info on this ? i search through the web but > found nothing. > thanks  I I have this and also pictures of the DIP switch settings, mail me if you  
 want them.   Alex     Factory DefaultsK Host interface is totally configurable and defined by PCI Specification 2.1 	 1 MB DRAM  1 MB adapter memory window size L I/O electrical interface for the 2-port board defaults to the attached cableB I/O electrical interface for the 4/8-port board defaults to RS-232   NOTE: Do Not Modify Jumper J2 K Jumper J2 is set at the factory - do not modify. Headers J4 and J5 are for  	 in-system ? programming of CPLDs, and are intended for factory update only.    Switch Settings    Switch Settings OverviewM Each adapter, depending upon its configuration, is equipped with a number of  
 8-positionM switches, located on the solder side of the card. A 2-port adapter board has  
 two switches, J a 4-port adapter board has four switches, and an 8-port adapter board has  eight switches. M Switches, located on the solder side of the 2-port adapter card and 4/8 port   daughterK cards, are set for DTE operation at the factory. If DCE is desired, change   switch settings $ prior to adapter board installation.  9   Mode Description Set each 8-position switch as follows:   M DTE Mode The adapter card receives both the transmit and receive clocks from   the attached communication device.   I DCE Mode The adapter card drives the transmit and receive clocks for the   attached communication device.   H Split Clock The adapter card drives the transmit clock for the attached 
 communication ? device and receives the receive clock from the attached device.      Variants3 Variant Ports Description Communications Interfaces E PBXDP-AA 2 Non-intelligent PCI Synchronous Communications Controller   Connects to EIA-232,= EIA-422, EIA-423, EIA-449, EIA-485, EIA-530,V.35, and/or X.21 E PBXDP-AB 4 Non-intelligent PCI Synchronous Communications Controller   Connects to EIA-232, EIA-422, V.35, and/or X.21E PBXDP-AC 8 Non-intelligent PCI Synchronous Communications Controller   Connects to EIA-232, EIA-422, V.35, and/or X.21   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 14:32:39 -0500 C From: "David Turner, Island Computers US Corp" <dbturner@icusc.com> ? Subject: Re: Resale value of ES40 and lots of other VMS systems : Message-ID: <Uj_nf.36678$cA2.34085@bignews3.bellsouth.net>  K Actually that ES40 pricing also includes the EIP package which is VERY VERY  expensive for wjhat if offers L Basically the same kinda thing that comes standard with EVERY OTHER OS!!!!!!  & EIP by itself sells for over $8000 !!!   David      --     David B Turner Island Computers US Corp 2700 Gregory St, Suite 180 Savannah GA 31404  Tel: 912 447 6622 X201 Cell: 912 447 6622 X252  Fax: 912 201 0402  Email: dbturner@icusc.com  Web: http://www.islandco.com% ===================================== < All orders are subject to the following terms and conditions. of sale. These should be read before ordering.% http://www.islandco.com/warranty.html   > "Malcolm Dunnett" <nothome@spammers.are.scum> wrote in message& news:IkQkhUc1Y$dP@malvm9.mala.bc.ca...J > In article <jCXnf.49408$Ms6.46654@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>, Alan Greig <greigaln@netscape.net> writes:  > > E > > I am currently helping a client dispose of at least 9 VMS systems I > > ranging from a MicroVAX 3100/95 through to a 4 processor (EV6 500Mhz) H > > ES40 with 1 Gig of RAM and HSJ40 based disk subsystem. I suspect theI > > ES40 is the only system which might still have any significant resale G > > value (as far as the client is concerned). Has anyone any idea of a I > > ballpark figure for such a system? VMS licenses are included with all  > > systems. > >  > C >    Island Computer's website shows a single CPU ES40 with 2GB and I > a VMS license asking price $9995US (see http://www.hpaq.net/es40.html).  > D >    There's a 2CPU ES40 up for auction on Ebay today, current price3 > $299 ( as-is, no reserve, no bids, no licenses ).  > F >    Interpolate your system somewhere between those 2 data points. MyF > guess is that someone who wants to run commercial VMS on it would beH > willing to pay $5-10K for it ( assuming all the licenses are valid andB > transferrable ). For a hobbyist, or for someone who wants to run6 > Linux on it, it's probably worth no more than $1000. > A > The 833Mhz ES40s are still pretty pricy but the slower ones are ! > getting pretty cheap these days  >    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Dec 2005 12:53:51 -08007 From: "russell.jays@gmail.com" <russell.jays@gmail.com> ? Subject: Re: Resale value of ES40 and lots of other VMS systems C Message-ID: <1134593631.549431.229400@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   G I can post this on the VMS Hobbyist site www.openvmshobbyist.com in the  new forums,  with your agreement.  F I am sure there are many UK based hobbyists including myself who would gladly give 7 the machines a loving home and save them from the skip.    Many Thanks  RJJ    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 19:58:39 GMT 3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond) + Subject: Re: saving recovery data with PCSI 0 Message-ID: <PP_nf.649$j%4.439@news.cpqcorp.net>  w In article <dnpo84$j61$1@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: H >In article <ftsnf.23915$Wo2.23830@trnddc04>, John Santos <john@egh.com>	 >writes:   > E >> > If I apply several patches one after the other, no PCSI logicals J >> > defined, and answer the questions so that I can continue, it appears K >> > that if I save data for patch A, then it is deleted by patch B, whose  % >> > data are deleted by patch C etc.  >>   >> This is *WRONG*.    > E >See my previous post where I cut and pasted the output from another  H >DECterm where I did an installation.  At least, my description matches 0 >the output, if not that which actually happens.  G I can't locate your previous post, but I seem to recal that the kit you E call "patch B" was a LAYERD PRODUCT kit with a name that made it look G like a "patch" kit.  If that is the case, then what you expereinced was ? normal behaviour, confused by the patch-like name of product B.   F If that is NOT the case you may want to re-post your output -- or send5 it directly to me, and I'll try to take a look at it.    --  J       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 18:29:57 +0800  From: prep@prep.synonet.com   Subject: Re: shadowing questions- Message-ID: <87u0dcotsq.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   4 David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes:  C > I should think there ought to be a way to recover the bitmap data + > from a crash dump and write it to a file.   H Do you want to eat week old road kill as well? There is a reason for theJ crash, and with out a lot of carefull checking, none of the data in a dump can be trusted.....    --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 22:41:37 GMT 1 From: Keith Parris <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com>   Subject: Re: shadowing questions0 Message-ID: <Bc1of.677$w55.298@news.cpqcorp.net>  / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: J > Assume that each shadow set consists of just two members, each of which E > has a local connection to only one machine---except in the case of  F > system-disk shadow sets, the disks are connected to different nodes. > G > Suppose a node starts a full shadow copy on a shadow set the disks of E > which are connected to two other nodes in the cluster, but then the J > first node crashes.  Will the copy be picked up, where it was left off, 7 > by another node?  Or will the entire copy start anew?   I If there is another node in the cluster which has the shadowset mounted,  I and that node still has access to the disks, I would expect that node to  : pick up the  full-copy at the point where it was left off.  E > Suppose a full copy is going on, but the node with the copy source  A > becomes unavailable.  Will the entire shadow set go into mount  I > verification, picking up the copy where it was left off when the node,  J > and the disk which is connected to it, become available again?  Or will  > the entire copy start anew?   I Assuming the copy source is the only source member in the shadowset, the  F entire virtual unit will go into mount verification. It it comes back I soon enough (probably before MVTIMEOUT seconds) I would expect the mount  G verification to succeed and the copy to proceed from where it left off.   F > I have SHADOW_MAX_COPY=1 in MODPARAMS.DAT on all machines (a higher K > value doesn't make sense since all communication is on the LAN).  When a  K > VAX boots, it looks for a special logical in the cluster table.  If this  I > is defined, then via SYSGEN SHADOW_MAX_COPY is set to 0.  The operator  C > can then do a MOUNT from an ALPHA to enable a MINICOPY to a disk  I > which went down with the VAX which just rebooted.  (This works even if  H > the shadow set has no members with a direct connection to an ALPHA.)  I > After this is done, SHADOW_MAX_COPY gets reset to 1.  (I don't like to  H > have it set to 0 by default:  When the VAX boots, its own system-disk E > shadow set might need a copy or merge, and it is best that the VAX  I > itself do it.  Also, for unplanned shadow copies, where no MINICOPY is  I > possible, it is fine (or even preferable) for the copy to be done by a   > VAX.)   I I would be fine, and since the VAX has a direct connection to the target  A disk, I would think it would also be preferable for it to do the   full-copy operation.  E > My third question is whether such logic makes sense for an ALPHA as H > well.  In other words, suppose an ALPHA is to be rebooted, and I do a K > DISMOUNT/POLICY=MINICOPY on the disks connected to it from another ALPHA  I > in the cluster.  When this ALPHA reboots, I obviously don't want a VAX  H > to pick up the copy, since then no MINICOPY is possible.  (Thus, when I > the special logical is defined at DISMOUNT, I also set SHADOW_MAX_COPY  F > to 0 on all VAX nodes via SYSMAN.)  However, what about the booting B > ALPHA itself.  Is it capable of performing a MINICOPY to a disk J > connected (only) to it (but, of course, MSCP served to all other nodes),K > or does this have to be done from another ALPHA.  (I'm wondering whether  K > the write bitmaps propagate to a node after it boots, like, for example,  J > cluster-wide logicals.)  If so, then I shouldn't set SHADOW_MAX_COPY to B > 0 on the ALPHAs when booting, so that the booting ALPHA has the D > possibility to pick up the minicopy (which might be the preferred F > scenario).  If not, then I should use the same code as on the VAXes.  G Bit-maps aren't copied between nodes, so the booting Alpha couldn't do  G the mini-copy, as it would have no bit-map; another Alpha with a write   bitmap would have to do it.   F > Is there some way to allow a MINICOPY in the case of unplanned node E > crashes?  I'm thinking of specifying /POLICY=MINICOPY on the MOUNT  J > command (I think this can be done now, but I believe it just makes this H > the default when a DISMOUNT command occurs) so that a write bitmap is H > created then.  When a node crashes, then a MINICOPY instead of a full K > copy could be done when the copy target is available again.  (Obviously,  J > this would only make sense for a shadow set on which a relatively small D > portion of the contents of the disk will have changed between the J > initial MOUNT and the MOUNT which occurs after the disk has disappeared  > and become available again.)  I You can have up to 6 bitmaps per shadowset, IIRC. If you have some extra  C disks, the Shadowing developer points out you can do some creative  G things to speed recovery after an unplanned outage. Let's say you have  ? one "production" disk locally connected per node, and an extra  D "recovery" disk. Assuming the shadowset were in steady-state with 2 B members, you could add a "recovery" disk in and let the full-copy C finish. Then you could remove it forming a mini-copy bitmap on the  F "opposite" node. Next, add the other "recovery" disk in and allow its E full-copy to complete, then remove it with a mini-copy bitmap on its  G opposite node. Now you have two members in the shadowset, and a bitmap  I on each node tracking all the changes relative to the "recovery" disk on  B the opposite node. If either node goes away unexpectedly, you can D initiate a mini-copy to the "recovery" disk on the opposite node to E restore redundancy quickly, then add the "production" disk in with a  H full-copy afterward to get back to normal (and it's OK for that to take 5 longer because you already have restored redundancy).   B The Shadowing developer is also looking into the possibility that I Shadowing may be able to, at the point where a member has to be removed,  C convert a mini-merge bitmap to a mini-copy bitmap for that removed  I member, and thus track all the changes subsequent to its loss, and allow  = a mini-copy operation to reintegrate it later. This would be  F particularly handy to allow mini-copies in disaster-tolerant clusters G after a failure which results in downtime of either one site or of the   inter-site link.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 21:05:27 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)  Subject: Re: SRM memtest/ Message-ID: <rO%nf.657$fV4.39@news.cpqcorp.net>   ` In article <5s90q1pb9q75o5jj7hjhgdsu4nfd43ugl9@4ax.com>, J.C. Roberts <unknown@abac.com> writes:I :So the system passed it's memory tests and all was well until I rebooted D :the system. This put me into AlphaBIOS/ARC for some strange reason. ..D :For some strange reason I ended up in AlphaBIOS/ARC again? This wasG :weird so I did the steps again, cold booted again, and sure enough, it ' :_still_ came up in AlphaBIOS/ARC mode?     H   The usual trigger for this behaviour -- reverting to the AlphaBIOS/ARCF   console selection -- is a failed or fully discharged battery on the F   BB_WATCH chip, or an indication that something stepped on the NVRAM,F   as that is where the system information and the settings are stored.  G   In retrospect, it would have been better to have selected a code for  G   the AlphaBIOS/ARC console that differed not only from the SRM console G   but also from the results of a discharged or a null-erased NVRAM, and E   to have had the console perform some sort of simple verification of E   the data it finds stored in NVRAM.  But that opportunity for change    is now long past.   G   The battery on most (all?) VAX, Alpha and Integrity systems is a NiCd F   pack or a lithium cell, and it does eventually fail.  AFAIK, either G   the battery pack can be replaced (when there is an external battery), F   or the BB_WATCH NVRAM chip itself (which has an integrated battery) #   is socketed, and can be replaced.   D   If the system has been powered up for a couple of days and it doesC   not retain its settings over a subsequent power-cycle, then it is D   likely the battery has failed.  If so, you'll probably also end upE   required to enter the system time, too, since that's typically also &   maintained by the same power source.  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------G        Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[\0100]hp.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 13:13:02 -0800 % From: J.C. Roberts <unknown@abac.com>  Subject: Re: SRM memtest8 Message-ID: <i921q1ps6tanktkedg28te1bq9guvvrje3@4ax.com>  F On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 21:05:27 GMT, hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) wrote:  E >  If the system has been powered up for a couple of days and it does D >  not retain its settings over a subsequent power-cycle, then it isE >  likely the battery has failed.  If so, you'll probably also end up F >  required to enter the system time, too, since that's typically also' >  maintained by the same power source.   E That was the strange part, system time was still correct. In fact the F system time wasn't in "default" mode when the machine was first bootedH after at least a year of storage over here and who knows how long it was5 stored at the seller's place (a commercial reseller).   G I got a similar hint about the battery on the OpenVMS.org web forum, so F for the sake of making sure, I replaced the battery with a new one for
 good measure.   
 Kind Regards,  JCR    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 13:38:51 -0800 % From: J.C. Roberts <unknown@abac.com>  Subject: Re: SRM memtest8 Message-ID: <9o21q1hvt8m9u5hh7l0mt754oke4fisap0@4ax.com>  E On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 15:01:44 -0500, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>  wrote:   >J.C. Roberts wrote: > F >> For some strange reason I ended up in AlphaBIOS/ARC again? This wasI >> weird so I did the steps again, cold booted again, and sure enough, it ) >> _still_ came up in AlphaBIOS/ARC mode?  >>  J >> The reason why the darn thing refused to go into SRM mode is because ofE >> that old NTFS partition on the disk. Once I deleted that partition J >> through the AlphaBIOS, I could finally reset the "Console Selection" to >> SRM and have it work. > F >Now that REALLY sucks.  The console determining it's mode based upon E >what's on a disk.  The console is there to set up the system BEFORE  C >booting an OS.  Sounds like something dreamed up for the expected   >capabilities of a windoz user.  > F >Good post.  Even us long term VMS users can be reminded of things we D >seldom use.  Seldom, because once things are set up, VMS just runs  >seemingly forever.   D I've been threatening to learn VMS for a couple years and although IF have the hardware, finding the time is the tough part. I want to learnC more about all the really interesting DEC/VMS innovations I've read D about (versioning, DECnet, clustering, ...). Reading about things is6 easy, actually using and learning stuff is far better.  E The only OS that I've safely been able to just install, configure and E let it run for years on end is OpenBSD. People from the windows world @ are just amazed it is possible to do something like that withoutH constant "Windows Updates" always running. I know OpenVMS is the only OS/ with a similar stability/security track record.   H The alpha system in question is one of a few that have been sitting hereH for over a year. Oddly enough, I'm finally taking the time to set up theF machine and get it thoroughly tested because I'm giving it away to one@ of the SBCL developers. At it's new home, unfortunately, it will probably be running linux.  H Just out of curiosity, when you get a "Hobbiest License" for OpenVMS, do you get access to source code?  2 Is the source code for the SRM firmware available?  ? I believe there is more documentation in the alpha architecture F reference manual (which I am yet to read) but SRM has some limitationsG like only recognizing SCSI controllers that it knows about (and choking  on everything else).  
 Kind Regards,  JCR    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 22:56:57 GMT 5 From: rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger)  Subject: Re: SRM memtestL Message-ID: <rdeininger-1412051757050001@user-uinj49e.dialup.mindspring.com>  E In article <9o21q1hvt8m9u5hh7l0mt754oke4fisap0@4ax.com>, J.C. Roberts  <unknown@abac.com> wrote:     I >Just out of curiosity, when you get a "Hobbiest License" for OpenVMS, do  >you get access to source code?   F No.  Source code licenses are available to developers, but they aren'tC particularly cheap.  And you don't get the source code, you get the H compiler listings.  Some proprietary stuff is censored from the listingsH kit.  In particular, machine-specific code for Alpha systems tends to be	 censored.   3 >Is the source code for the SRM firmware available?   F AFAIK, it was never available outside Digital/Compaq/HP, and was never$ widely available inside the company.    @ >I believe there is more documentation in the alpha architectureG >reference manual (which I am yet to read) but SRM has some limitations H >like only recognizing SCSI controllers that it knows about (and choking >on everything else).   J The SRM console should accept any compliant I/O card. (Has there ever beenE a compliant I/O card?)  It will only boot from a supported card (or a E close relative).  It shouldn't choke, except in the unfortunate cases G where an unsupported card looks like one the SRM knows, but does behave 
 the same way.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 21:17:32 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>  Subject: Re: SRM memtest/ Message-ID: <11q1kepgr2l051@corp.supernews.com>    Robert Deininger wrote: G > In article <9o21q1hvt8m9u5hh7l0mt754oke4fisap0@4ax.com>, J.C. Roberts  > <unknown@abac.com> wrote:  >  >  > J >>Just out of curiosity, when you get a "Hobbiest License" for OpenVMS, do  >>you get access to source code? >  > H > No.  Source code licenses are available to developers, but they aren'tE > particularly cheap.  And you don't get the source code, you get the J > compiler listings.  Some proprietary stuff is censored from the listingsJ > kit.  In particular, machine-specific code for Alpha systems tends to be > censored.   G Is there any particular reason for censoring the machine specific code?   4 >>Is the source code for the SRM firmware available? >  > H > AFAIK, it was never available outside Digital/Compaq/HP, and was never& > widely available inside the company.  H Is there a reason this software could not be available to customers and 
 hobbyists?   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------   Date: 14 Dec 2005 21:05:50 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)! Subject: Re: Storageworks shelves , Message-ID: <40bfpeF19hm0hU1@individual.net>  C In article <1134593257.273430.292020@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>, > 	"johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com> writes: > Bill Gunshannon wrote:B >> Can anyone give me a quick rundown on the differences between aF >> BA350-JA and a BA350-SB?  I have both.  With the JA all the devicesD >> are visable when hooked up to a PDP-11 with a CMD SCSI Module butD >> the same configuration with the SB reports all drives OFFLINE.  IB >> tried hooking them both up to a PC with an Adaptec Card and theC >> results are the same.  I can see no configuration options beyond D >> SHELF_OK and they are both configured the same for that (not that1 >> I expect it makes a difference to the PDP-11).  >>I >> It would be usefull to use both as sources for drives for my PDP-11's.  >> > From the SOC (circa '96)@ > http://h18000.www1.hp.com/products/quickspecs/SOC/QB001QPF.PDF >  > BA350-SB General description: A > Single-height shelf, configured for seven 3.5" devices, or four C > 3.5" devices and one 5.25" full-height device, or one 3.5" device D > and two 5.25" full-height devices. Installation of redundant powerE > supply reduces number of 3.5" devices by one. Two 5.25" half-height @ > devices (RRD4x, TZK1x) can be mounted in one 5.25" full-height" > carrier. FCC class B certified . >  > Shelves for SW500 and SW800: > BA350-JA: D > Shelf for EISA-based server logic, includes power supply BA35X-HF,, > dual-speed blowers, and mounting brackets. >  > BA350-SB: F > Shelf for 1 to 7 devices, 8-bit single-ended SCSI bus in back panel,G > dual-speed blowers. 3.5- and 5.25" form factor. FCC Class B certified  > C > I think they are the same basic shelf with different accessories. I > Looks like the -JA comes with mounting brackets and a P/S where the -SB H > is a basic shelf.  Neither mentions the personality module But I thinkD > thre wasn't much choice for the BA350 shelf which is 8-bit only.    @ No "Personality Module" in either of them. Just drives and power@ supplies.  Behind the fans are the terminator and the connector.@ Bothe are configured for single bus and exert SHELF_OK (although+ I suspect the PDP doesn't care about that.)   F >                                                                  I'dE > suspect something is set different in your two personality modules. B > The other possibility is that the -SB has a problem on it's SCSI > backplane. > I > Does the system see the drives but they're offline or are they not seen 	 > at all?   @ I assume it doesn't see them as it should report what the drives8 actually are and all it says is OFFLINE for all of them.   > How many drives?C > If the shelf is not full could it have a split backplane with the  > drives on the "other" half?   D No split backplanes.  But I did have them both fully loaded. (I haveE since taken out two drives from the one that works as RSTS refuses to > even boot the install tape with more than 4 devices connected.   > G > Have you compared the switch settings on the two personality modules? 6 > 8-bit modules might not have any settings. Not sure.' > Are the personality modules the same?   K No personality modules, just the backplane witht he cable connected to JA1,   I I am begining to think the BA350-SB is just plain broke!!  Unless someone F shows up here to tell me it is differnt than a JA and will not work inH this configuration.  Or maybe it actually requires a personality module?I I've known peopl eiwth and without built-in personality, maybe SB Shelves  are the same way?  :-)   bill      --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------    Date: 14 Dec 2005 12:47:37 -0800; From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com> ! Subject: Re: Storageworks shelves C Message-ID: <1134593257.273430.292020@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>    Bill Gunshannon wrote:A > Can anyone give me a quick rundown on the differences between a E > BA350-JA and a BA350-SB?  I have both.  With the JA all the devices C > are visable when hooked up to a PDP-11 with a CMD SCSI Module but C > the same configuration with the SB reports all drives OFFLINE.  I A > tried hooking them both up to a PC with an Adaptec Card and the B > results are the same.  I can see no configuration options beyondC > SHELF_OK and they are both configured the same for that (not that 0 > I expect it makes a difference to the PDP-11). > H > It would be usefull to use both as sources for drives for my PDP-11's. >  > bill >  > --L > Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesF > bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton   |@ > Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   >From the SOC (circa '96) > http://h18000.www1.hp.com/products/quickspecs/SOC/QB001QPF.PDF   BA350-SB General description: ? Single-height shelf, configured for seven 3.5" devices, or four A 3.5" devices and one 5.25" full-height device, or one 3.5" device B and two 5.25" full-height devices. Installation of redundant powerC supply reduces number of 3.5" devices by one. Two 5.25" half-height > devices (RRD4x, TZK1x) can be mounted in one 5.25" full-height  carrier. FCC class B certified .   Shelves for SW500 and SW800:	 BA350-JA: B Shelf for EISA-based server logic, includes power supply BA35X-HF,* dual-speed blowers, and mounting brackets.  	 BA350-SB: D Shelf for 1 to 7 devices, 8-bit single-ended SCSI bus in back panel,E dual-speed blowers. 3.5- and 5.25" form factor. FCC Class B certified   A I think they are the same basic shelf with different accessories. G Looks like the -JA comes with mounting brackets and a P/S where the -SB F is a basic shelf.  Neither mentions the personality module But I thinkE thre wasn't much choice for the BA350 shelf which is 8-bit only.  I'd C suspect something is set different in your two personality modules. @ The other possibility is that the -SB has a problem on it's SCSI
 backplane.  G Does the system see the drives but they're offline or are they not seen  at all?  How many drives?A If the shelf is not full could it have a split backplane with the  drives on the "other" half?   E Have you compared the switch settings on the two personality modules? 4 8-bit modules might not have any settings. Not sure.% Are the personality modules the same?    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Dec 2005 13:46:40 -0800; From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com> ! Subject: Re: Storageworks shelves B Message-ID: <1134596800.146388.45420@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:E > In article <1134593257.273430.292020@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>, @ > 	"johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com> writes: > > Bill Gunshannon wrote:D > >> Can anyone give me a quick rundown on the differences between aH > >> BA350-JA and a BA350-SB?  I have both.  With the JA all the devicesF > >> are visable when hooked up to a PDP-11 with a CMD SCSI Module butF > >> the same configuration with the SB reports all drives OFFLINE.  ID > >> tried hooking them both up to a PC with an Adaptec Card and theE > >> results are the same.  I can see no configuration options beyond F > >> SHELF_OK and they are both configured the same for that (not that3 > >> I expect it makes a difference to the PDP-11).  > >>K > >> It would be usefull to use both as sources for drives for my PDP-11's.  > >> > > From the SOC (circa '96)B > > http://h18000.www1.hp.com/products/quickspecs/SOC/QB001QPF.PDF > > ! > > BA350-SB General description: C > > Single-height shelf, configured for seven 3.5" devices, or four E > > 3.5" devices and one 5.25" full-height device, or one 3.5" device F > > and two 5.25" full-height devices. Installation of redundant powerG > > supply reduces number of 3.5" devices by one. Two 5.25" half-height B > > devices (RRD4x, TZK1x) can be mounted in one 5.25" full-height$ > > carrier. FCC class B certified . > >   > > Shelves for SW500 and SW800:
 > > BA350-JA: F > > Shelf for EISA-based server logic, includes power supply BA35X-HF,. > > dual-speed blowers, and mounting brackets. > > 
 > > BA350-SB: H > > Shelf for 1 to 7 devices, 8-bit single-ended SCSI bus in back panel,I > > dual-speed blowers. 3.5- and 5.25" form factor. FCC Class B certified  > > E > > I think they are the same basic shelf with different accessories. K > > Looks like the -JA comes with mounting brackets and a P/S where the -SB J > > is a basic shelf.  Neither mentions the personality module But I thinkD > > thre wasn't much choice for the BA350 shelf which is 8-bit only. > B > No "Personality Module" in either of them. Just drives and powerB > supplies.  Behind the fans are the terminator and the connector.B > Bothe are configured for single bus and exert SHELF_OK (although- > I suspect the PDP doesn't care about that.)   F Okay. I guess only the BA356 has them since it can support 8 or 16-bitC drives and connections. I don't have any BA350's around any more to $ reference, just a couple of BA356's.   > H > >                                                                  I'dG > > suspect something is set different in your two personality modules. D > > The other possibility is that the -SB has a problem on it's SCSI > > backplane. > > K > > Does the system see the drives but they're offline or are they not seen  > > at all?  > B > I assume it doesn't see them as it should report what the drives: > actually are and all it says is OFFLINE for all of them. >  > > How many drives?E > > If the shelf is not full could it have a split backplane with the  > > drives on the "other" half?  > F > No split backplanes.  But I did have them both fully loaded. (I haveG > since taken out two drives from the one that works as RSTS refuses to @ > even boot the install tape with more than 4 devices connected. >  > > I > > Have you compared the switch settings on the two personality modules? 8 > > 8-bit modules might not have any settings. Not sure.) > > Are the personality modules the same?  > M > No personality modules, just the backplane witht he cable connected to JA1,  > K > I am begining to think the BA350-SB is just plain broke!!  Unless someone H > shows up here to tell me it is differnt than a JA and will not work inJ > this configuration.  Or maybe it actually requires a personality module?K > I've known peopl eiwth and without built-in personality, maybe SB Shelves  > are the same way?  :-) >  > bill >  >  > --L > Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesF > bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton   |@ > Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 17:13:53 -0500 - From: William Webb <william.w.webb@gmail.com> ! Subject: Re: Storageworks shelves I Message-ID: <8660a3a10512141413n64d30f3bx8e7796f49d14e8bd@mail.gmail.com>   7 On 14 Dec 2005 13:46:40 -0800, johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com ! <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com> wrote:  >  > Bill Gunshannon wrote:G > > In article <1134593257.273430.292020@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>, G > >       "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com> writes:  > > > Bill Gunshannon wrote:F > > >> Can anyone give me a quick rundown on the differences between aJ > > >> BA350-JA and a BA350-SB?  I have both.  With the JA all the devicesH > > >> are visable when hooked up to a PDP-11 with a CMD SCSI Module butH > > >> the same configuration with the SB reports all drives OFFLINE.  IF > > >> tried hooking them both up to a PC with an Adaptec Card and theG > > >> results are the same.  I can see no configuration options beyond H > > >> SHELF_OK and they are both configured the same for that (not that5 > > >> I expect it makes a difference to the PDP-11).  > > >>L > > >> It would be usefull to use both as sources for drives for my PDP-11'= s. > > >> > > > From the SOC (circa '96)D > > > http://h18000.www1.hp.com/products/quickspecs/SOC/QB001QPF.PDF > > > # > > > BA350-SB General description: E > > > Single-height shelf, configured for seven 3.5" devices, or four G > > > 3.5" devices and one 5.25" full-height device, or one 3.5" device H > > > and two 5.25" full-height devices. Installation of redundant powerI > > > supply reduces number of 3.5" devices by one. Two 5.25" half-height D > > > devices (RRD4x, TZK1x) can be mounted in one 5.25" full-height& > > > carrier. FCC class B certified . > > > " > > > Shelves for SW500 and SW800: > > > BA350-JA: H > > > Shelf for EISA-based server logic, includes power supply BA35X-HF,0 > > > dual-speed blowers, and mounting brackets. > > >  > > > BA350-SB: J > > > Shelf for 1 to 7 devices, 8-bit single-ended SCSI bus in back panel,K > > > dual-speed blowers. 3.5- and 5.25" form factor. FCC Class B certified  > > > G > > > I think they are the same basic shelf with different accessories. L > > > Looks like the -JA comes with mounting brackets and a P/S where the -= SBL > > > is a basic shelf.  Neither mentions the personality module But I thin= k F > > > thre wasn't much choice for the BA350 shelf which is 8-bit only. > > D > > No "Personality Module" in either of them. Just drives and powerD > > supplies.  Behind the fans are the terminator and the connector.D > > Bothe are configured for single bus and exert SHELF_OK (although/ > > I suspect the PDP doesn't care about that.)  > H > Okay. I guess only the BA356 has them since it can support 8 or 16-bitE > drives and connections. I don't have any BA350's around any more to & > reference, just a couple of BA356's. >  > > J > > >                                                                  I'dI > > > suspect something is set different in your two personality modules. F > > > The other possibility is that the -SB has a problem on it's SCSI > > > backplane. > > > L > > > Does the system see the drives but they're offline or are they not se= en
 > > > at all?  > > D > > I assume it doesn't see them as it should report what the drives< > > actually are and all it says is OFFLINE for all of them. > >  > > > How many drives?G > > > If the shelf is not full could it have a split backplane with the ! > > > drives on the "other" half?  > > H > > No split backplanes.  But I did have them both fully loaded. (I haveI > > since taken out two drives from the one that works as RSTS refuses to B > > even boot the install tape with more than 4 devices connected. > >  > > > K > > > Have you compared the switch settings on the two personality modules? : > > > 8-bit modules might not have any settings. Not sure.+ > > > Are the personality modules the same?  > > L > > No personality modules, just the backplane witht he cable connected to = JA1, > > L > > I am begining to think the BA350-SB is just plain broke!!  Unless someo= neJ > > shows up here to tell me it is differnt than a JA and will not work inL > > this configuration.  Or maybe it actually requires a personality module= ? L > > I've known peopl eiwth and without built-in personality, maybe SB Shelv= es > > are the same way?  :-) > >  > > bill > >  > >  > > --L > > Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wol= ves H > > bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > > University of Scranton   |B > > Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h> >  >     B BA350s don't have a space (little thin slot at top, about half the) size of an SBB) for a personality module.   D They have two narrow SCSI connectors (50 pin HD) mounted directly on@ the backplane, which makes them a challenge to reach if you have squarish hands like I do.   F Other giveaways- BA350 round key, BA356 flat key if you still have the. front and back covers for the pedestal models.   WWWebb   --C NOTE: This email address is only used for noncommerical VMS-related  correspondence. C All unsolicited commercial email will be deemed to be a request for 8 services pursuant to the terms and conditions located at# http://bellsouthpwp.net/w/e/webbww/    ------------------------------   Date: 14 Dec 2005 22:25:31 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)! Subject: Re: Storageworks shelves , Message-ID: <40bkeqF19t6s1U3@individual.net>  + In article <dnq3pl1c2k@enews2.newsguy.com>,  	healyzh@aracnet.com writes:+ > Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote: C >> No "Personality Module" in either of them. Just drives and power C >> supplies.  Behind the fans are the terminator and the connector. C >> Bothe are configured for single bus and exert SHELF_OK (although . >> I suspect the PDP doesn't care about that.) > B > A BA350 doesn't use a personality module, those are for BA356's.  D Aren't there "Personality Modules" that plug into the top slot whichE is much narrower than the rest and has the two SCSI connectors in the  back of it?    > J > I tried to get a BA350 (and I think a BA353) working on one of my VikingK > QDT's on my PDP-11/73 five or six years ago, and didn't have any luck.  I L > ended up going with Removable disk trays that are typically used with PC'sN > (unfortunatly 50-pin narrow SCSI trays are probably hard to come by now).  IM > can't remember if I tried to get the storageworks shelves to work before or M > after I upgraded the firmware on the Viking (newer firmware is required for  > it to work with a CD-ROM).  % The BA350-JA seems to work just fine.    > G >> No split backplanes.  But I did have them both fully loaded. (I have H >> since taken out two drives from the one that works as RSTS refuses to > N > I'm not sure what you're using for a controller, but I kind of doubt it will > support more than 4 drives,   E CMD and it recognizes all 6 drives (and one TK50 tape drive) from the  config menu.  K >                              and in any case, I don't think any PDP-11 OS 1 > will like more than 4 drives on the controller.   M Well, RT-11 installed, but could not see anything beyond the 4th drive (DU3). L I then tried to install RSTS, planning on puttiong it on DU0 but the installK just crashed at the point where you tell it which drive.  I pulled the last N 2 drives and ran it again and it went happily on it's way.  Of course, it willM now take til tomorrow to INIT the disk.  I had all night so I let it have the J default 3 patterns. :-)  Once I have this done successfully, I will likelyH put RSX on another of the disks.  Of course, this is all really just forH practice as I will be putting up much smaller (physically) machines and,= hopefully, finding a home or homes for these UNIBUS monsters.    > L >> I am begining to think the BA350-SB is just plain broke!!  Unless someoneI >> shows up here to tell me it is differnt than a JA and will not work in K >> this configuration.  Or maybe it actually requires a personality module? L >> I've known peopl eiwth and without built-in personality, maybe SB Shelves >> are the same way?  :-)  > $ > Can you test it on a VAX or Alpha?  F Nope,  the HSJ's that these came off of are long since gone, hopefullyD providing good service to the person who picked them up a while ago.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 14 Dec 2005 21:45:25 GMT From: healyzh@aracnet.com ! Subject: Re: Storageworks shelves + Message-ID: <dnq3pl1c2k@enews2.newsguy.com>   ) Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote: B > No "Personality Module" in either of them. Just drives and powerB > supplies.  Behind the fans are the terminator and the connector.B > Bothe are configured for single bus and exert SHELF_OK (although- > I suspect the PDP doesn't care about that.)   @ A BA350 doesn't use a personality module, those are for BA356's.  H I tried to get a BA350 (and I think a BA353) working on one of my VikingI QDT's on my PDP-11/73 five or six years ago, and didn't have any luck.  I J ended up going with Removable disk trays that are typically used with PC'sL (unfortunatly 50-pin narrow SCSI trays are probably hard to come by now).  IK can't remember if I tried to get the storageworks shelves to work before or K after I upgraded the firmware on the Viking (newer firmware is required for  it to work with a CD-ROM).  F > No split backplanes.  But I did have them both fully loaded. (I haveG > since taken out two drives from the one that works as RSTS refuses to   L I'm not sure what you're using for a controller, but I kind of doubt it willH support more than 4 drives, and in any case, I don't think any PDP-11 OS/ will like more than 4 drives on the controller.   K > I am begining to think the BA350-SB is just plain broke!!  Unless someone H > shows up here to tell me it is differnt than a JA and will not work inJ > this configuration.  Or maybe it actually requires a personality module?K > I've known peopl eiwth and without built-in personality, maybe SB Shelves  > are the same way?  :-)  " Can you test it on a VAX or Alpha?   		Zane   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Dec 2005 12:59:21 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 9 Subject: RE: Timeout strategy: terminal vs Telnet drivers 3 Message-ID: <CM8ksFuXY8eO@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ` In article <JFEPKAPBPMDFDBOIANGDMEJJHBAA.dallen@nist.gov>, "Dan Allen" <dallen@nist.gov> writes: >  >  >> -----Original Message----- 7 >> From: Larry Kilgallen [mailto:Kilgallen@SpamCop.net]   J > Does DCL disable echo on the remote system when it's reading/writing the
 > connection?   J DCL does whatever it does through normal QIO controls, just as for a localL terminal.  For normal command input (as distinguished from the READ command)K carriage-return will be the terminator and all the input characters will be 6 collected with local echo until the input is complete.  B > If not, does that mean the connection behaves the same as Telnet" > when the user's at the $ prompt?  3 Telnet would send the input in much smaller groups.   0 > It would also seem that editors benefit little > from this functionality.  D TECO makes full use of the capability after the first character on a line.   9 > In fact I'd think they would disable CTDRIVER buffering 
 > altogether.   > TECO does a single character read only on the first character.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 14:18:30 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> ) Subject: Re: UK VMS HP contract customers , Message-ID: <43A07006.BDD774C8@teksavvy.com>   Syltrem wrote:J > they said there was no plan (yet) to stop supporting those before end of > 2001 >  > That's 2011 of course.      F HP might be able to retroactively cancel support contracts.  They'd goA back and few years and bill any customers who actually called the C support number (hourly rate for non contract customers) and for any F visits as well as parts that had been replaced :-) :-) ;-) :-) :-) :-)  F And of course, they'd bill you for each set of CDs received as well asD upgrade licenses for each product you have a licence for :-) :-) :-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 14:34:20 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>  Subject: Upgrading TCPIP( Message-ID: <ops1sozidbzgicya@hyrrokkin>   Currently running @    Compaq TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.1 - ECO 3>    on a COMPAQ Professional Workstation P running OpenVMS V7.3  8 Anything to be on the lookout for when upgrading to 5.4?4 Not planning VMS upgrade, need to have a 7.3 around.   Tom    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 23:09:01 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  Subject: Re: Upgrading TCPIP, Message-ID: <43A0EC3A.BD4DD96A@teksavvy.com>   Tom Linden wrote: : > Anything to be on the lookout for when upgrading to 5.4?6 > Not planning VMS upgrade, need to have a 7.3 around.  E 5.1 to 5.3 introduced a lot of new functions and software (IMAP etc).   3 So you'll need to spend more time reading the doc.    F Make sure you have complete doc as well as the release notes. When 5.3D was introduced, a lot of the new stuff was documented in the release notes only.    ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 12:43:46 -0700 (MST) 5 From: Borked Pseudo Mailed <nobody@pseudo.borked.net> + Subject: Re: Yellow pages poorly designed ? @ Message-ID: <f2c6ee5c8e347c1bfb407118799eac75@pseudo.borked.net>  0 JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> trolled:  
 >If I go to :  > , >http://www.yellowpages.ca/searchBusiness.do > > >It takes forever to get to the page that allows me to enter aC >request/city. And I have to have javascript enabled, otherwise the # >"city" input box is not generated.  >  > G >Obviously, when the weenies demoed the page to the yellow pages folks, @ >they made sure they had a 3ghz PC so that the disgusting designB >inefficiency of the page wouldn't cause the meeting to p]ause for- >coffee/lunch waiting for the page to appear.  > H >I am curious at what Mhz PC speed would this page render quickly enough  >that people wouldn't complain ?  E That's what you get for still accessing the net with your "son", that 0 hundred year old vax dinosaur piece of shitware.  7 Stop masturbating 24 hours a day, get off your mother's B plastic-covered couch, go get a JOB, and you won't have time to be posting such stupid trolls.   E Who knows, you might even be able to save up enough eventually to buy  a decent computer.   FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS    About JF MEZEI  @ The "nobody" troll of rec.travel.air and "John Doe" troll of the sci.space.* newsgroups.    (Rev. August 3, 2005)    Written by:    Marc Bissonnette 1725 Beachburg Road  Beachburg, Ontario  K0J 1C0  (613) 582-7056/ d r a g n e t @ i n t e r n a l y s i s . c o m  http://www.internalysis.com  http://www.canadianisp.com   and    Darrell Larose 121 Northwestern Ave Ottawa, ON K1Y 0M1 (613) 725-0245# c o t a 3 4 8 @ r o g e r s . c o m 1 a d 6 0 7 @ F r e e N e t . C a r l e t o n . C A      1.  Who is JF Mezei?  C Jean-Francois Mezei is the worst netkook and megatroll to have ever C hit rec.travel.air and various other usenet newsgroups.  He is also 4 one of the longest running trolls in usenet history.  C ***WARNING:  JF MEZEI IS A ROGUE CANCELLER.  HE FORGES THE NAME AND C E-MAIL ADDRESS OF USENET POSTERS HE DOES NOT AGREE WITH AND CANCELS  THEIR MESSAGES.***  E If you participate in the same newsgroups he does, you should monitor E the control.cancel newsgroup.  If you find that he has cancelled your & messages, forward a copies of them to:# a b u s e @ t e k s a v v y . c o m # a b u s e @ a s t r a w e b . c o m # a b u s e @ t e r a n e w s . c o m   # See also http://www.usenetabuse.com   " 2.  How long has he been trolling?   For well over a decade.    3.  Where does he live?    Montreal, Quebec, Canada   Jean-Francois Mezei  86 Harwood Gate  Beaconsfield, QC H9W3A3  (514) 992-0474 (514) 695-8259  ! His current e-mail addresses are: ' j f m e z e i @ t e k s a v v y . c o m ) j f m e z e i @ v a x i n a t i o n . c a   ) His website is http://www.vaxination.ca .   * 4.  What makes him such a malicious troll?  C His trolling is constant, repetitious, relentless.  Once he invades D your newsgroup he will stay for decades, troll around the clock, dayF in and day out, every day of the year, for years and years on end.  He@ does not listen to pleas to stop, he does not listen to anything4 anyone tells him, he does not pay attention when theA misinformation/disinformation he posts is corrected, he just goes C right on trolling year in, year out like a little child holding his F ears closed while yelling "I can't hear you, I can't hear anything you say!"    5.  What does he troll about?   F His favorite subjects are USA-bashing and anything to do with sex.  HeB hates the USA and Americans and will hijack any thread and turn itC into a USA-bashing fest.  If he can't do that then he'll just start  making lewd posts.  $ 6.  What does he hate about the USA?  E Everything!  He is part of a larger group of Canadian trolls who have E a visceral hatred of the USA, motivated by envy mostly.  The USA is a B happier, better, more successful version of their country and they> can't stand it.  Some of JF's favorite troll bait is "the BushE Regime", "the Cheney/Rumsfeld/Wolfowitz axis of evil", "Americans are B brainwashed", "Cars are evil", "SUVs are evil", "all Americans are stupid" etc.  # 7.  What about his sexual trolling?   E Ah, that is JF at his trolling best.  No sexual topic is too bizarre. > Among his favorites are child sexuality, masturbation, women'sA genitalia, sex toys, circumcision, the sex lives of Americans (of   course) ... the list is endless.   8.  Circumcision???   F Yes, JF trolled the circumcision newsgroups for years.  He still likes< to insert circumcision into his trolling every now and then.C Apparently, JF was traumatized as a child because his parents, poor B Hungarian immigrants to Canada, left him uncircumcised when he wasB born, as is the custom in most of the world.  Growing up in Canada@ where male infant circumcision was prevalent at the time, he was? psychologically scarred (so he claims).  As soon as he could he @ arranged to get himself snipped, and then joined the brigades ofE circumcision proselytizers in the newsgroups advocating the joys of a @ free willy.  His main argument is how much better he was able toB masturbate after getting circumcised without that "pesky foreskin"F getting in the way of his enjoyment, and he has made it his mission in' life to spread the circumcision gospel.   @ 9.  What's his interest in child sexuality?  That sounds kind of freaky.   @ Well, everything having to do with Mezei *is* freaky.  Among theE subjects dear to his heart are the genitals of little boys and girls, E especially little boy's foreskins (and how tight they are) and little @ girls' hymens.  He is also a tireless activist and advocate thatC children should be taught to masturbate early on so that they don't , grow up "sexually repressed like Americans".  E He also counsels all parents of boys that they constantly check their C little boys' penises and foreskins frequently to ensure a good fit, F proper movement, and that they be able to masturbate with no problems.A Utopia for JF would be a world full of parents manipulating their  little boys' penises.   @ 10.  Ewww!  This guy is sounding more and more disgusting by the+ minute!  Are you sure about all this stuff?   D Yes, you can check the google archives for yourself.  There's over a' decade full of Mezei trolling in there.   C 11.  How can I find all that out, doesn't he change aliases all the  time like all trolls do?  B Of course!  See the appendix below for a list of many of his known trolling aliases.   A 12.  So where does this guy get so much time to troll, doesn't he  work?   E Ha ha ha!  JF hasn't worked a day in his life!  He's an adult baby, a C grown man who still lives at home with mommy and sleeps all day and @ trolls the newsgroups all night.  In his free time when he isn'tF trolling he likes to ride his bike down to Dorval Airport and race the# planes down the runway in his bike.   9 13.  That seems strange, is he mentally ill or something?   D Bingo!  JF is a boy in a grown man's body.  Psychologically he neverA got past the age of 13 and got stuck in a world of bathroom humor F (i.e. "pull my finger!") and locker room antics that he has never been able to outgrow.  C 14.  Speaking of locker rooms, I heard he has a sexual fetish about  them, is that true?   @ Yes!  JF goes to the gym not to work out but to watch men in theB locker room.  He loves to post about the male sexual organs he has= seen in locker rooms over the years, especially his unnatural F obsession with foreskins.  He stalks the men in locker rooms trying toB measure how much foreskin they have, or how little is left if theyF have been circumcised.  He gets extremely excited when he spots a case of phimosis.  @ 15.  Oh my Gawd, this guy is nuts!  He should be locked up in an insane asylum!  D Yep, JF is certifiably insane.  He lives in a black helicopter / tin; foil hat world where others are out to get him.  The key to F understanding JF is that he sees himself as a VICTIM.  To JF the worldD is out to get him, especially the USA.  Victimhood is what JF is all about.  D What seems to have sent him over the edge was when the Canadian railD system was "killed", in his words.  He used to be a major train nut,D spotting trains, writing down their numbers and chasing them down atB the train yard like a good freak.  Then he turned his attention toC aviation.  Major events that made him fall head first deep into the C abyss were the bankruptcy of Canadian Airlines and their subsequent F takeover by Air Canada (whom he sees as evil).  So paranoid is he thatE when an Air Canada plane crashed he claimed that Air Canada employees D went lurking about in the night with buckets of white paint to coverE up the Air Canada markings.  He saw that as symbolic of a cover up of ; the crash investigation.  He has never recovered from this.   6 16.  Where else does he hang out, I want to avoid him!  F His main haunt on usenet is comp.os.vms, a newsgroup dedicated to someE ancient, arcane, obsolete piece of vax crapware that nobody has taken A seriously for decades.  JF hangs out there with other misfits and C social dropouts who share his psychological traumas, crying for the 1 good old vax days of yore.  It's really pathetic!   ! 17.  Where else does he hang out?   @ can.internet.highspeed, alt.cellular.fido, and a few other geekyD computer groups.  For a while after the Shuttle Columbia disaster heB invaded the sci.space groups, sci.space.shuttle in particular, andF trolled it relentlessly with the anti-American, conspiracy theory crapE he's so famous for.  But they ran him off that group and he had to go D crawling back to comp.os.vms with his tail between his legs, licking his wounds.   A 18.  It sounds like comp.os.vms is the only group he respects and  doesn't troll.  F Pretty much.  For a megatroll like JF it's impossible not to troll, so> he slips in troll bait every now and then, but by and large heA respects comp.os.vms, and, more importantly, he tries to hide his A trolling activities from them so they won't find out what a major  netkook he is.  F 19.  Wow, sounds like he should be exposed so they will know what kind of psycho he is!  E Exactly.  Feel free to post all his trolls to comp.os.vms.  And while F you're at it post them to can.internet.highspeed and alt.cellular.fido? too.  And to alt.usenet.kooks, a group for the likes of JF, and  news.admin.net-abuse.usenet.  4 20.  What else can I do?  Is there an abuse address?  D Yes, you should send complaints along with copies of his troll posts to:   # a b u s e @ t e k s a v v y . c o m ) d n s a d m i n @ t e k s a v v y . c o m # a b u s e @ t e r a n e w s . c o m # a b u s e @ a s t r a w e b . c o m    also http://www.usenetabuse.com   7 You can also call directly, troll free, 1-877-779-1575.    TekSavvy Solutions Inc.  330 Richmond St., Suite 205  Chatham, ON, Canada  N7M 1P7   D And feel free to distribute this FAQ freely.  Post it to newsgroups,C email it to people, you may host it at your own website, send it to D newspapers and magazines that do Internet articles or anything to do with Montreal or Canada, etc.      *** APPENDIX ***  @ List of some of the many trolling aliases used by Mezei over theF years.  This is only a partial list, he has so many it's impossible to compile a full list.  ' j f m e z e i @ t e k s a v v y . c o m 7 j f m e z e i . s p a m n o t @ t e k s a v v y . c o m ! j f m e z e i @ i s t o p . c o m 1 j f m e z e i . s p a m n o t @ i s t o p . c o m ' j f m e z e i @ v i d e o t r o n . c a - j f m e z e i @ v l . v i d e o t r o n . c a 5 n o s p a m . j f m e z e i @ v i d e o t r o n . c a ; " j f m e z e i " @ v i d e o t r o n . c a [ n o s p a m ]   * nobody <n o b o d y @ n o b o d y . c o m>* nobody <n o b o d y @ n o b o d y . n e t>* nobody <n o b o d y @ n o b o d y . o r g>, nobody <n o b o d y @ n o b o d y . i n f o>* nobody <n o b o d y @ n o b o d y . i n t>, nobody <n o b o d y @ n o t h i n g . n i l>& nobody <n o b o d y @ n u l l . d e v>  # Janice Staples <jstaples@noaol.com> ) Lorenna Bobbit <lbobbit@ginsu_knives.com> ' Lando Calrisian <Lcalrisian@empire.org>  muklak <muklak@eskimo.net> Sheep skin <sheep@station.au> # snowy squirrel <squirrel@nest.tree> ) Conspiracy Theory <conspiracy@theory.org> & Lou Raccoon <L.Raccoon@wilderness.org>$ Flapping Labias <flabia@anatomy.org>% Throbbing vulva <t.vulva@anatomy.org>  Twin Gonads <two@gonads.com>% Loose Scrotum <l.scrotum@anatomy.org> " Raised Organ <R.Organ@anatomy.org>$ Popped Cherry <P.Cherry@anatomy.org>- Monica Lewinski <billclinton@westchester.com> ' Deep Fried Foreskin <dff@mcdonalds.com> " Aroma of Smegma <aroma@chanel.org> Wet fart <w.Fart@smell.org> ' Pubic dandruff <P.dandruff@anatomy.org> ( Voluptuous Nipple <V.nipple@anatomy.org>& Inserted Finger <I.Finger@anatomy.org> Pubic Nair <shaved@anatomy.org> ' Flatulent Meatus <F.Meatus@anatomy.org> % Lihk Mhygroin <L.MyGroin@anatomy.org>  Pre Khum <P.Khum@anatomy.org> ! Phi Mosis <Phi.Mosis@anatomy.org> # Bal Anatis <Bal.Anatis@anatomy.org>   Fren Ullum <F.Ullum@anatomy.org>$ Ivanna Getlaid <I.Getlaid@onani.org>& Ivanna Wankalot <I.Wankalot@onani.org>$ Ivanna Umpalot <Humpalot@drevil.com>* Wan Tnoneofit <W.Tnoneofit@weirdnames.org> Wan Itbad <W.Itbad@inneed.org>! Wan Towank <W.ToWank@anatomy.org>  Wan Tolik <w.tolik@anatomy.org> $ Testos Terone <t.terone@anatomy.org>! Upper Gonad <U.Gonad@anatomy.org> ! Right Gonad <R.Gonad@anatomy.org>   Left Gonad <L.Gonad@anatomy.org>$ Tyson's Glands <Tyson.G@anatomy.org> Nose Hair <n.hair@anatomy.org>% Coronal Sulcus <C.Sulcus@anatomy.org> % Corpus Cavernus <manhood@anatomy.org> $ Armpit moisture <armpit@anatomy.org> Onani Room <onani@hotels.com> & Arnie's Banana <weiner@terminator.com>( Raised eyebrows <r.eyebrows@anatomy.org>% Vas Deferens <V.deferens@anatomy.org> % Naked Canuck <N.canuck@naturists.org> & Arni's socks <Smelly.Socks@arnold.org>* Notable Exception <N.exception@untied.com>& Unpopped Cherry <U.Cherry@anatomy.org>' Tatooed Ovaries <T.Ovaries@anatomy.org> ' Pierced eyelid <p.eyelid@piercings.org> ( Limp Tomato <limp.tomato@vegetables.org>, Eggplant Earrings <e.earrings@piercings.org>. Banana Underpants <B.Underpants@hillfiger.org> Naval Lint <navel@lint.mil> ' Ingrown Toenail <i.toenail@anatomy.org> % Empty Stomach <E.Stomach@anatomy.org> $ Full Stomach <f.stomach@anatomy.org>" Smelly Cat <S.Cat@friends.nbc.com>& Torn Ligament <T.Ligament@anatomy.org># Art Tistic <A.Tistic@modern.museum> ( Furry Raccoon <F.Raccoon@wilderness.org>% Wet Racoon <W.Racoon@wildnerness.org> " Mad Racoon <M.Racoon@wildlife.org>% Lazy Racoon <L.Racoon@wilderness.org> & Eaten Racoon <E.Raccoon@mcdonalds.com>' Happy Raccoon <H.Racoon@wilderness.org> ) Sleeping Racoon <S.Racoon@wilderness.org> ' Hungry Racoon <H.Racoon@wilderness.org> " Horny Raccoon <H.Racoon@fauna.org>( Smart Raccoon <S.Raccoon@wilderness.org>, George W Raccoon <GW.Raccoon@wilderness.org>+ Ronald McRaccoon <r.raccoon@wilderness.org> * Thirsty Raccoon <T.Raccoon@wilderness.org>( Johnny Raccoon <J.Racoon@wilderness.org>' Oshi Santo <O.Santo@nx01.starfleet.org> * Oishi Chinko <O.Chinko@nx01.starfleet.org> T.Yellow <T.Yellow@nowhere.com>  Q <queue@continuum.net>  Borg Queen <1of1@borg.org>* Ronald Wilkerson <wilkersonr@sympatico.ca>) John Balterman <j.balterman@sympatico.ca>   ; *DISTRIBUTE FREELY* *DISTRIBUTE FREELY* *DISTRIBUTE FREELY*    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.696 ************************