1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 16 Dec 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 699       Contents: Re: Another Backup suggestion  Re: Another Backup suggestion  Re: Another Backup suggestion  Re: Another Backup suggestion  Re: Another Backup suggestion  Re: Another Backup suggestion  Re: Clustering? Clustering (was:  Re: HP announces new Integrity Blade Servers) C Re: Clustering (was:  Re: HP announces new Integrity Blade Servers) / Re: Clustering: switches reliability/redundancy / Re: Clustering: switches reliability/redundancy / Re: Clustering: switches reliability/redundancy  Re: Database access from COBOL Re: Database access from COBOL Re: Database access from COBOL Re: Database access from COBOL Re: Database access from COBOL Re: Database access from COBOL Re: Database access from COBOL Re: Database access from COBOL Re: DESTA Memory hog& DSSI, MSCP serving and identical nodes7 Re: HP announces new Integrity Blade Servers - OpenVMS? 7 Re: HP announces new Integrity Blade Servers - OpenVMS? 7 Re: HP announces new Integrity Blade Servers - OpenVMS? 7 RE: HP announces new Integrity Blade Servers - OpenVMS? 7 Re: HP announces new Integrity Blade Servers - OpenVMS? 7 RE: HP announces new Integrity Blade Servers - OpenVMS? 7 Re: HP announces new Integrity Blade Servers - OpenVMS? 7 RE: HP announces new Integrity Blade Servers - OpenVMS? 7 Re: HP announces new Integrity Blade Servers - OpenVMS?  MOUNT/BIND and BACKUP question* Re: R400X: converting DSSI shelves to SCSI* Re: R400X: converting DSSI shelves to SCSI Re: SRM memtest  Re: Storageworks shelves  Re: UK VMS HP contract customers  Re: UK VMS HP contract customers& Re: Upgrade a 5300A controller via CD?& Re: Upgrade a 5300A controller via CD?& Re: Upgrade a 5300A controller via CD?& Re: Upgrade a 5300A controller via CD? VMS V8.2 SHOW ERROR Bug?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 09:04:27 +0200 7 From: "Guy Peleg" <guy.peleg@remove_this_header@hp.com> & Subject: Re: Another Backup suggestion, Message-ID: <43a266ff$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message& news:43A21D55.6E4354C4@teksavvy.com...F > While freezing my toes off in this very cold weather, I got to think1 > about Guy Peleg's recent Backup improvements...  >   > I would suggest the following: >  > BACKUP /LOG=INTERVAL=(DIR:3)F > Writes a log line everytime it has completed the backing up of a 3rd, > level directory, as well as higher levels. > eg:  > I > 30-FEB-2006 07:43:25 dka200:[sys0.syshlp.examples]  9273 blocks  230202  blocksB > 30-FEB-2006 08:20:21 dka200:[sys0.syshlp]           15000 blocks > 3002383 blocksB > 30-FEB-2006 09:10:34 dka200:[sys0]                  29392 blocks > 3938282 blocksD > (eg: give the number of blocks in that directory, and a cumulative- > number of blocks for the backup operation.)  >  >  >  > BACKUP /LOG=INTERVAL=100 > E > This one is simpler, it issues a standard line (filename) every 100  > files it has processed.  >  >  > G > The first one gives very informative messages about which directories I > contain many blocks, and where the cutoff really happens between tapes.  > G > The second one just gives a rough idea of where the backup has gotten ? > without filling a log file with  agazillion lines, or without < > monopolising a terminal with constant output of filenames.   Interesting ideas....   7 Last week I added a new qualifier - /PROGRESS_REPORT=n. > The new qualifier instructs BACKUP to write progress report to? SYS$OUTPUT (which may be a log file) every n seconds.  We write D the new CTRL-T message to the log file (data saved/restored, current5 file, rate and estimated completion time) prefixed by  %BACKUP-I-PROGRESS_REPORT,   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 02:19:24 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> & Subject: Re: Another Backup suggestion+ Message-ID: <43A26A7A.9F4ECF2@teksavvy.com>    Guy Peleg wrote: > Interesting ideas....    Another one:  G At the time Backup realises it has gotten to the end of tape, it should D write a message of how many data blocks it was able to write to that( tape. (before asking for the next tape).  > It would help gauge real life capabilities of the tape device,? (especially with compression optiosn in many tape controllers).   G And it may help gauge which parameters generate the most efficient tape G usage with the fewest interblock gaps. (although there seem to be fewer 0 and fewer such backup parameters still working).   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 15:30:33 +0800 3 From: "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> & Subject: Re: Another Backup suggestion1 Message-ID: <dntqg6$7eb$1@news-02.connect.com.au>    Hi Guy,   @ > The new qualifier instructs BACKUP to write progress report toA > SYS$OUTPUT (which may be a log file) every n seconds.  We write   K Out of curiosity, do you $flush sys$output after you write to it? Or do you F rely on $set output_rate (which could be less than optimal if your "n"J seconds was less than the output rate.) Backups being normally measured inC hours (or at least many minutes) it's probably a non-issue, but the 5 granularity is "seconds" and I'm curious nonetheless.    Regards Richard Maher   B "Guy Peleg" <guy.peleg@remove_this_header@hp.com> wrote in message& news:43a266ff$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com... > < > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message( > news:43A21D55.6E4354C4@teksavvy.com...H > > While freezing my toes off in this very cold weather, I got to think3 > > about Guy Peleg's recent Backup improvements...  > > " > > I would suggest the following: > >   > > BACKUP /LOG=INTERVAL=(DIR:3)H > > Writes a log line everytime it has completed the backing up of a 3rd. > > level directory, as well as higher levels. > > eg:  > > K > > 30-FEB-2006 07:43:25 dka200:[sys0.syshlp.examples]  9273 blocks  230202  > blocksD > > 30-FEB-2006 08:20:21 dka200:[sys0.syshlp]           15000 blocks > > 3002383 blocksD > > 30-FEB-2006 09:10:34 dka200:[sys0]                  29392 blocks > > 3938282 blocksF > > (eg: give the number of blocks in that directory, and a cumulative/ > > number of blocks for the backup operation.)  > >  > >  > >  > > BACKUP /LOG=INTERVAL=100 > > G > > This one is simpler, it issues a standard line (filename) every 100  > > files it has processed.  > >  > >  > > I > > The first one gives very informative messages about which directories K > > contain many blocks, and where the cutoff really happens between tapes.  > > I > > The second one just gives a rough idea of where the backup has gotten A > > without filling a log file with  agazillion lines, or without > > > monopolising a terminal with constant output of filenames. >  > Interesting ideas....  > 9 > Last week I added a new qualifier - /PROGRESS_REPORT=n. @ > The new qualifier instructs BACKUP to write progress report toA > SYS$OUTPUT (which may be a log file) every n seconds.  We write F > the new CTRL-T message to the log file (data saved/restored, current7 > file, rate and estimated completion time) prefixed by  > %BACKUP-I-PROGRESS_REPORT, >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 12:15:04 +0200 7 From: "Guy Peleg" <guy.peleg@remove_this_header@hp.com> & Subject: Re: Another Backup suggestion* Message-ID: <43a293ac@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  > "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> wrote in message+ news:dntqg6$7eb$1@news-02.connect.com.au... 	 > Hi Guy,  > B > > The new qualifier instructs BACKUP to write progress report toC > > SYS$OUTPUT (which may be a log file) every n seconds.  We write  > I > Out of curiosity, do you $flush sys$output after you write to it? Or do  you H > rely on $set output_rate (which could be less than optimal if your "n"  : We rely on set output_rate.....BACKUP calls LIB$PUT_OUTPUT  L > seconds was less than the output rate.) Backups being normally measured inE > hours (or at least many minutes) it's probably a non-issue, but the 7 > granularity is "seconds" and I'm curious nonetheless.  >  > Regards Richard Maher  > D > "Guy Peleg" <guy.peleg@remove_this_header@hp.com> wrote in message( > news:43a266ff$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com... > > > > > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message* > > news:43A21D55.6E4354C4@teksavvy.com...J > > > While freezing my toes off in this very cold weather, I got to think5 > > > about Guy Peleg's recent Backup improvements...  > > > $ > > > I would suggest the following: > > > " > > > BACKUP /LOG=INTERVAL=(DIR:3)J > > > Writes a log line everytime it has completed the backing up of a 3rd0 > > > level directory, as well as higher levels.	 > > > eg:  > > > E > > > 30-FEB-2006 07:43:25 dka200:[sys0.syshlp.examples]  9273 blocks  230202
 > > blocksF > > > 30-FEB-2006 08:20:21 dka200:[sys0.syshlp]           15000 blocks > > > 3002383 blocksF > > > 30-FEB-2006 09:10:34 dka200:[sys0]                  29392 blocks > > > 3938282 blocksH > > > (eg: give the number of blocks in that directory, and a cumulative1 > > > number of blocks for the backup operation.)  > > >  > > >  > > >  > > > BACKUP /LOG=INTERVAL=100 > > > I > > > This one is simpler, it issues a standard line (filename) every 100  > > > files it has processed.  > > >  > > >  > > > K > > > The first one gives very informative messages about which directories F > > > contain many blocks, and where the cutoff really happens between tapes. > > > K > > > The second one just gives a rough idea of where the backup has gotten C > > > without filling a log file with  agazillion lines, or without @ > > > monopolising a terminal with constant output of filenames. > >  > > Interesting ideas....  > > ; > > Last week I added a new qualifier - /PROGRESS_REPORT=n. B > > The new qualifier instructs BACKUP to write progress report toC > > SYS$OUTPUT (which may be a log file) every n seconds.  We write H > > the new CTRL-T message to the log file (data saved/restored, current9 > > file, rate and estimated completion time) prefixed by  > > %BACKUP-I-PROGRESS_REPORT, > >  > >  >  >    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Dec 2005 06:22:54 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) & Subject: Re: Another Backup suggestion3 Message-ID: <oTiamG9j9Bni@eisner.encompasserve.org>   g In article <dntqg6$7eb$1@news-02.connect.com.au>, "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> writes:   A >> The new qualifier instructs BACKUP to write progress report to B >> SYS$OUTPUT (which may be a log file) every n seconds.  We write > M > Out of curiosity, do you $flush sys$output after you write to it? Or do you   < That would reduce the degree of control the user would have.  H > rely on $set output_rate (which could be less than optimal if your "n"L > seconds was less than the output rate.) Backups being normally measured inE > hours (or at least many minutes) it's probably a non-issue, but the 7 > granularity is "seconds" and I'm curious nonetheless.   D It is perfectly reasonable for some user to want to collect all thatG progress data in a batch log (the only place where OUTPUT_RATE applies) + but not want the data until job completion.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 16:37:48 +0100 , From: Albrecht Schlosser <ajs856@tiscali.de>& Subject: Re: Another Backup suggestion+ Message-ID: <11nund.9b.ln@news.hus-soft.de>    Guy Peleg wrote: >  > Interesting ideas....  > 9 > Last week I added a new qualifier - /PROGRESS_REPORT=n. @ > The new qualifier instructs BACKUP to write progress report toA > SYS$OUTPUT (which may be a log file) every n seconds.  We write F > the new CTRL-T message to the log file (data saved/restored, current7 > file, rate and estimated completion time) prefixed by  > %BACKUP-I-PROGRESS_REPORT,  F Fine, but I'm missing some sort of time stamp, at least with the line > "... starting verification pass" (or similar). Sometimes it's C interesting to know how long it took to write the saveset and when  8 backup started verification (and backup date recording).  0 At least the time (hh:mm) would also be fine in   "%BACKUP-I-PROGRESS_REPORT, ..."   Would this be doable?    Thanks Albrecht   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 10:05:18 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>  Subject: Re: Clustering 0 Message-ID: <11q5lqcgtoor5b0@corp.supernews.com>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:T > In article <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB773691@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>,, > 	"Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> writes: > E >>                        As I recall there was a university that ran / >>something like 120 WS's/servers in a cluster.  >> >  > ; > This brings up an interesting question (at least for me!)  > G > You mentioned WS's above and I assume that means WorkStations.  What, J > if anything, would be the advantage of building a cluster of, let's say,E > 2 multi-processor Vaxen like I currently have in the department and F > a dozen or so VS3100's?  Could all the VS3100's run diskless gettingI > all their support from the HSJ served disks on the big boxes?  Assuming E > the cluster traffic was all on a private ethernet and access to the D > world was only through the two big boxes would performance be goodF > enough?  Is there something important I missed because I really haveI > no idea how a VMS Cluster works, never having built one but considering L > it now. (Especially if it can make the whole system more visible locally!) > I > Then, of course, would come the biggest question.  Does HP have a bunch L > of fully loaded VS3100's with big monitors that they want to truck up here9 > as a donation so I can build a this dream VAX lab.  :-)  >  > bill >   H It's been a while, and I've never been real intimate with clusters, but H I think the biggest issue with running diskless workstations is paging. F   Back when VAXstation 3100 systems with a max of 32 MB of memory was G the norm, paging was an issue.  Cluster members with sufficient memory  @ can do remote boots and all disk activity over an ethernet link.  E If you were looking for some old VAXstations, I'd suggest VAXstation  I 4000 models.  The model 60 can be found on ebay at times.  I'm sure that  D somewhere they can be had if you'd just haul them away.  Don't know  where 'somewhere' is.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------   Date: 16 Dec 2005 13:57:11 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)H Subject: Clustering (was:  Re: HP announces new Integrity Blade Servers), Message-ID: <40fvdmF19s3amU1@individual.net>  R In article <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB773691@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>,* 	"Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> writes: > E >                         As I recall there was a university that ran / > something like 120 WS's/servers in a cluster.  >   9 This brings up an interesting question (at least for me!)   E You mentioned WS's above and I assume that means WorkStations.  What, H if anything, would be the advantage of building a cluster of, let's say,C 2 multi-processor Vaxen like I currently have in the department and D a dozen or so VS3100's?  Could all the VS3100's run diskless gettingG all their support from the HSJ served disks on the big boxes?  Assuming C the cluster traffic was all on a private ethernet and access to the B world was only through the two big boxes would performance be goodD enough?  Is there something important I missed because I really haveG no idea how a VMS Cluster works, never having built one but considering J it now. (Especially if it can make the whole system more visible locally!)  G Then, of course, would come the biggest question.  Does HP have a bunch J of fully loaded VS3100's with big monitors that they want to truck up here7 as a donation so I can build a this dream VAX lab.  :-)    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 10:36:51 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> L Subject: Re: Clustering (was:  Re: HP announces new Integrity Blade Servers), Message-ID: <43A2DF12.36968A2C@teksavvy.com>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:J > if anything, would be the advantage of building a cluster of, let's say,E > 2 multi-processor Vaxen like I currently have in the department and F > a dozen or so VS3100's?  Could all the VS3100's run diskless getting@ > all their support from the HSJ served disks on the big boxes?     = Yes.  And you could have a single SYSUAF etc. satellite nodes E (workstations) can still have their own batch queues, controlled from E the main central queue manager. So you could have user X submit a job J that ends up running on some worksattion while its owner is out for lunch.  F These are concepts which were up and running in the 1980s and which HP2 is tryng to get running on Windows 20 years later.    F Also, any user could use any workstation. Each workstation has its ownG root in the boot servers and that root contain the workstation specific F codes/parameters. But when you login through decwindows, you are given# your own personalised environment.    E This is stuff Windows can do, but it is quite a mess to manage due to F the registry being distributed between workstation, central server andH user, and it isn't clear where an application's keys will be stored when you install it.   ? In terms of lan traffic, it depends on your users. you can have A pagefiles local to the workstation, and then it is only the image 9 activations that really generate lan-based disk activity.     F VMS clustering is really *WAY* ahead of windows in terms of supportingG workgroup workstations. Remember that it supports up to 96 workstations $ in a cluster. Try that with windows.  E The problem is that the owners of VMS years ago have decided that VMS H was not to flaunt its capabilities in such setups and nobody has had theK guts to get the new owners to review those 10 year old decisions by palmer.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 13:02:38 +0000 ! From: Baldrick <none@[127.0.0.1]> 8 Subject: Re: Clustering: switches reliability/redundancy' Message-ID: <dnudti$54h$1@lore.csc.com>    Alex Daniels wrote: G > "Michael Moroney" <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> wrote in message  $ > news:dntgm3$dno$1@pcls4.std.com... > 1 >>klewis@OMEGA.MITRE.ORG (Keith A. Lewis) writes:  >> >>L >>>Example:  Nodes A-C each have 2 NICs and are connected to switches 1 and  >>>2. M >>>If NIC A-1 fails, everything still works.  But if NIC B-2 fails before A-1 L >>>is fixed, nodes A and B can no longer communicate.  C can still see both  >>>of M >>>them, so it wants to keep the cluster together, and each of {A,B} wants to : >>>kick the other out.  The result is a cluster-wide hang. >>K >>Cluster shouldn't hang.  One of A or B will be kicked out and the cluster J >>will continue.  I don't know the algorithm other than the one with fewerE >>votes will be kicked out if different.  C knows A and B cannot talk  >>to each other. >  > 4 > It will hang for the value of RECNXINTERVAL first. >   % Yes, then a decision should be taken.   H Each node has a list of legal subclusters, and the general principle is F that the transaction coordinator in the cluster, finds agreement on a H "survivable" "largest" subcluster with quorum, and your unlucky node(s)  will be CLUEXITed.  G It doesn't always happen and you get an "infinite" hang, it is usually  H due to a mismatch of system (SYSGEN) parameters or other non definitive  and inconsistent conditions.  H The general idea is that the list comprises all members, then fewer and D fewer members, and at each coordinating step if there is a match of A those few members that can maintain quorum, then reconfiguration  G completes. Each cluster system has a "figure of merit"* based on votes  H and remaining members in that subcluster use "highest wins" in order to C determine who remains and who goes, but it is possible to get into  I situations where the decision is a "race" condition (first to notice) or  E the current transaction coordinator abandons reconfiguration because  D some other node has computed a higher figure of merit for remaining  members.  A My stuff comes from old and ancient tech journals and vaxcluster  B principles, but I do feel that an updated article for the current G journal based on the present cluster code would be very welcome (hint,   hint!)  H * the formula is (256 X total votes in subcluster) + number-of-nodes in 
 subcluster  I I'm avoiding going any deeper as I don't have the present 8.x algorithms  G and code in front of me, but hopefully I've explained enough that it's  0 not in many cases pure random or indiscriminate. --  E Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. Car Park Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 13:26:59 +0000 ! From: Baldrick <none@[127.0.0.1]> 8 Subject: Re: Clustering: switches reliability/redundancy' Message-ID: <dnufb6$57v$1@lore.csc.com>    Main, Kerry wrote:   >  >>-----Original Message-----+ >>From: Baldrick [mailto:none@[127.0.0.1]]   ... ? >>Use multiple network cards and a direct, RX/TX swapped cable   >>between the G >>systems, and the cluster will stay up regardless of what the network  ; >>nazi's get up to, Sure they'll complain because if its a    F > Direct connect works ok with 2 systems, but then it gets complicatedH > when you start adding systems from there i.e. need direct connect fromF > each system directly to each other system.. Need to schedule systemsE > down to add dedictaed nic's etc. Also, if the cable did get cut (or E > pulled out), then do you put 2 cables in each system to every other 	 > system?   D VMS supports 4 NIC's per system. So use 2 of Nemonixs' twin gigabit   alpha card and you could have...  G A rack of 4 clustered ES45's, use 3 of the LAN ports to connect to the  I remaining 3 systems in that rack, and the last to connect to the outside  & world for "real" work for each system.  C However if you look to the real world and stories of clusters that  H survived site failures, inevitably they have used a layer of networking H equipment outside the system, so perhaps I'm painting a picture blacker  than it really is.  F They key thing is design, and your playing devil's advocate with your G level of knowledge is so important in getting the best solution. It is  H always well worth when making such an investment to bring s person such   as you in when doing the design.  G And hope that the aircon unit hanging above that single clustered rack   doesn't suddenly spring a leak!    --  E Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. Car Park Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 14:14:08 -0000 @ From: "Alex Daniels" <alexNOSPAMHERETHANKSdaniels@themail.co.uk>8 Subject: Re: Clustering: switches reliability/redundancy6 Message-ID: <43a2cbcc$0$23289$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>  / "Baldrick" <none@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message  ! news:dnufb6$57v$1@lore.csc.com... L > VMS supports 4 NIC's per system. So use 2 of Nemonixs' twin gigabit alpha  > card and you could have...  J This page indicates VMS 7.2-1H1 and up, supports 16 DEGPA-SA gig Ethernet  cards, in a GS320.  ` http://h18002.www1.hp.com/alphaserver/options/asgs320/asgs320_19_options_sorted.html#OptListHead   Alex     ------------------------------   Date: 16 Dec 2005 13:30:46 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)' Subject: Re: Database access from COBOL , Message-ID: <40fts6F1a73a6U2@individual.net>  * In article <43A221EB.A31E5019@oracle.com>,7 	Norman Lastovica <norman.lastovica@oracle.com> writes: 2 > install Oracle Rdb and there ought to be several2 > examples of database access with module language > or embeded SQL.   ( Do I get a free copy with licenses?  :-)1 Do you even still support the VAX?  (I doubt it.)   D My plan was to run Oracle on a Windows 2003 Server box as there is aB free version of that but I want the students to access it from the) VAX running VMS and programming in COBOL.    bill   >  > Bill Gunshannon wrote: >>  G >> Well, it looks like this semester of student VAX use went well.  Now I >> it is time to start building on this.  The students who just did data- I >> structures will be moving on to their first database course.  The last J >> thing they did with COBOL on the VAX was ISAM.  Looks like a good lead-H >> up to see why databases are the next step.  So,  can someone point meI >> at some simple examples of database access from COBOL on VMS?  And let I >> me know which manual I shuold expect to find more detailed information J >> about it?  (It would be nice if I had the time to pl,ay with it myself,K >> but I don't and I hate re-inventing the wheel anyway.)  Who knows, maybe I >> we are headed towards a VMS Renaisance in Education!!  Maybe if we get F >> through this next semester with the students working on VMS again IH >> can convince the professor involved to consider a paper for the Small@ >> Colleges Conference about using VMS to handle these concepts. >>   >> bill  >>   >> -- M >> Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolves G >> bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.  >> University of Scranton   | A >> Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>  >    --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 16 Dec 2005 13:33:49 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)' Subject: Re: Database access from COBOL , Message-ID: <40fu1tF1a73a6U3@individual.net>  R In article <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB77368A@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>,* 	"Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> writes: >  >> -----Original Message----- % >> From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu=20 B >> [mailto:bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu] On Behalf Of Bill Gunshannon# >> Sent: December 15, 2005 10:52 AM  >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com& >> Subject: Database access from COBOL >>=20 G >> Well, it looks like this semester of student VAX use went well.  Now I >> it is time to start building on this.  The students who just did data- I >> structures will be moving on to their first database course.  The last B >> thing they did with COBOL on the VAX was ISAM.  Looks like a=20
 >> good lead- H >> up to see why databases are the next step.  So,  can someone point meI >> at some simple examples of database access from COBOL on VMS?  And let I >> me know which manual I shuold expect to find more detailed information B >> about it?  (It would be nice if I had the time to pl,ay with=20
 >> it myself, A >> but I don't and I hate re-inventing the wheel anyway.)  Who=20  >> knows, maybe I >> we are headed towards a VMS Renaisance in Education!!  Maybe if we get F >> through this next semester with the students working on VMS again IH >> can convince the professor involved to consider a paper for the Small@ >> Colleges Conference about using VMS to handle these concepts. >>=20  >> bill  >>=20  >  >  > Bill,  > H > Nice feedback .. If you'd like, perhaps you could add a few paragraphs) > to the following Hobbyist and Edu site:  > J > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/license_software_programs/mainstorypag > e.html > J > Drop me a note offline if you are interested and I will get you in touch5 > with the folks in charge of this web sites content.  >   F Actually, I was considering sending a note out to all the students whoF took the class that used the VAX this semester asking for comments on ; the experience.  Be nice to get something more out of this.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 07:47:05 -0700 4 From: Norman Lastovica <norman.lastovica@oracle.com>' Subject: Re: Database access from COBOL * Message-ID: <43A2D369.AA04819C@oracle.com>   Bill Gunshannon wrote: > , > In article <43A221EB.A31E5019@oracle.com>,@ >         Norman Lastovica <norman.lastovica@oracle.com> writes:4 > > install Oracle Rdb and there ought to be several4 > > examples of database access with module language > > or embeded SQL.  > * > Do I get a free copy with licenses?  :-)  + 	for educational use, I believe so.  get in 1 touch with Oracle about that part though - I just  work on the code.   3 > Do you even still support the VAX?  (I doubt it.)   * yes - vax is fully supported.  Rdb V7.0.     > F > My plan was to run Oracle on a Windows 2003 Server box as there is aD > free version of that but I want the students to access it from the+ > VAX running VMS and programming in COBOL.  >  > bill >  > >  > > Bill Gunshannon wrote: > >>I > >> Well, it looks like this semester of student VAX use went well.  Now K > >> it is time to start building on this.  The students who just did data- K > >> structures will be moving on to their first database course.  The last L > >> thing they did with COBOL on the VAX was ISAM.  Looks like a good lead-J > >> up to see why databases are the next step.  So,  can someone point meK > >> at some simple examples of database access from COBOL on VMS?  And let K > >> me know which manual I shuold expect to find more detailed information L > >> about it?  (It would be nice if I had the time to pl,ay with it myself,M > >> but I don't and I hate re-inventing the wheel anyway.)  Who knows, maybe K > >> we are headed towards a VMS Renaisance in Education!!  Maybe if we get H > >> through this next semester with the students working on VMS again IJ > >> can convince the professor involved to consider a paper for the SmallB > >> Colleges Conference about using VMS to handle these concepts. > >>	 > >> bill  > >> > >> -- O > >> Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolves I > >> bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.  > >> University of Scranton   | C > >> Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>  > >  >  > --L > Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesF > bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton   |@ > Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   --  	 - - - - - 0  opinions expressed here are mine and mine alone.  and certainly are not intended in any way to 0  express or represent any opinions or commitment  of oracle corporation.   *  norman lastovica / oracle rdb engineering   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 14:48:55 -0000 @ From: "Alex Daniels" <alexNOSPAMHERETHANKSdaniels@themail.co.uk>' Subject: Re: Database access from COBOL 6 Message-ID: <43a2d3d8$0$29565$da0feed9@news.zen.co.uk>  6 "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message & news:40fts6F1a73a6U2@individual.net..., > In article <43A221EB.A31E5019@oracle.com>,8 > Norman Lastovica <norman.lastovica@oracle.com> writes:3 >> install Oracle Rdb and there ought to be several 3 >> examples of database access with module language  >> or embeded SQL. > * > Do I get a free copy with licenses?  :-)3 > Do you even still support the VAX?  (I doubt it.)  >   = RDB is still supported on VAX, as can be seen in the roadmap.   7 http://h71000.www7.hp.com/partners/oracle/roadmaps.html   ? Also go to http://www.oracle.com/technology/software/index.html   L That shows it's free for a development license and here's a link to the VAX  download  B http://www.oracle.com/technology/software/products/rdb7/index.html   Alex     ------------------------------    Date: 16 Dec 2005 07:22:29 -0800, From: "rcyoung" <rcyoung@aliconsultants.com>' Subject: Re: Database access from COBOL C Message-ID: <1134746549.851800.108040@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   B Here is an option as well. Get the SIMH Vax simulator ( a freebie)A which runs on Linux, Mac/X, Alpha VMS, and Windows. We have Rdb 7 A running on Mac/X 10.3 with the Compaq "C" compiler for doing some B development/testing while traveling. I see no reason why the CobolD compiler would not function equally well. That way, each student canG have their own "Vax" if they wish. All you need is the hobbyist license F for VMS and $30 for one set of media. Load a new hobbyist license onto: the disk image each year before the start of the semester.  C Build a "standard" pre-configured system disk image that people can ) download onto their PCs, and away you go.    ------------------------------   Date: 16 Dec 2005 16:24:13 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)' Subject: Re: Database access from COBOL , Message-ID: <40g81dF1a9hf7U1@individual.net>  6 In article <43a2d3d8$0$29565$da0feed9@news.zen.co.uk>,C 	"Alex Daniels" <alexNOSPAMHERETHANKSdaniels@themail.co.uk> writes: 8 > "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message ( > news:40fts6F1a73a6U2@individual.net...- >> In article <43A221EB.A31E5019@oracle.com>, 9 >> Norman Lastovica <norman.lastovica@oracle.com> writes: 4 >>> install Oracle Rdb and there ought to be several4 >>> examples of database access with module language >>> or embeded SQL.  >>+ >> Do I get a free copy with licenses?  :-) 4 >> Do you even still support the VAX?  (I doubt it.) >> > ? > RDB is still supported on VAX, as can be seen in the roadmap.  > 9 > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/partners/oracle/roadmaps.html  > A > Also go to http://www.oracle.com/technology/software/index.html  > N > That shows it's free for a development license and here's a link to the VAX 
 > download > D > http://www.oracle.com/technology/software/products/rdb7/index.html  E I had looked on Oracle's page for some kind of Edu program (they used C to have one) but didn't find anything.  I did find the program that @ let's anyone run a limited version of Oracle and was planning onB using that on a Win2K3 Server and assumed it would support networkC access so the students could do their work from the Vax.  I will go @ back and look again.  My Vaxen are all 4 processor.  I hope that8 doesn't keep me from utilizing the program if I find it.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 16 Dec 2005 16:29:39 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)' Subject: Re: Database access from COBOL , Message-ID: <40g8bjF1a9hf7U2@individual.net>  C In article <1134746549.851800.108040@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, / 	"rcyoung" <rcyoung@aliconsultants.com> writes: D > Here is an option as well. Get the SIMH Vax simulator ( a freebie)C > which runs on Linux, Mac/X, Alpha VMS, and Windows. We have Rdb 7  > running on Mac/X 10.3   E I have no and am unlikely to ever have Mac/X 10.3.  My only Mac's are - M68K and I am unlikely to get anything newer.   E >                         with the Compaq "C" compiler for doing some D > development/testing while traveling. I see no reason why the CobolF > compiler would not function equally well. That way, each student can% > have their own "Vax" if they wish.    D That would be pretty much the biggest nightmare I can imagine.  And,F we can't offer courses that require the students to provide the needed computing resources.  I >                                    All you need is the hobbyist license H > for VMS and $30 for one set of media. Load a new hobbyist license onto< > the disk image each year before the start of the semester.  A I suspect what you are proposing would badly violate the Hobbyist > Agreement.  At the very least, our lawyers would never buy it.   > E > Build a "standard" pre-configured system disk image that people can + > download onto their PCs, and away you go.   ' That is probably a violation as well.     E I know people here like to brag that VMS takes less adminitrators for G a larger number of systems, but my hands are kept pretty full with what H I have without having to try and administer 100 student systems as well.B Or do you somehow think all these kids are experienced VMS admins?   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 16:42:22 -0000 @ From: "Alex Daniels" <alexNOSPAMHERETHANKSdaniels@themail.co.uk>' Subject: Re: Database access from COBOL 6 Message-ID: <43a2ee6c$0$29562$da0feed9@news.zen.co.uk>  6 "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message & news:40g81dF1a9hf7U1@individual.net...G > I had looked on Oracle's page for some kind of Edu program (they used E > to have one) but didn't find anything.  I did find the program that B > let's anyone run a limited version of Oracle and was planning onD > using that on a Win2K3 Server and assumed it would support networkE > access so the students could do their work from the Vax.  I will go B > back and look again.  My Vaxen are all 4 processor.  I hope that: > doesn't keep me from utilizing the program if I find it. >   B Don't know about any EDU programs. But as your students are doing J development rather than running a production database, I guess the (free) J development license would be good for you, maybe? That license is for the ; full version too, so can't see that SMP would be a problem.   K http://www.oracle.com/technology/software/products/rdb7/index.html has the   VAX download on it.    Alex     ------------------------------    Date: 16 Dec 2005 00:21:27 -0800 From: comp.os.vms@hotmail.com  Subject: Re: DESTA Memory hog C Message-ID: <1134721287.339368.120700@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   C I have a LOT of other things to do with my 4GB thank you very much.   	 Dr Dweeb.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 03:54:14 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> / Subject: DSSI, MSCP serving and identical nodes , Message-ID: <43A280AE.76238673@teksavvy.com>  H I am trying to workout a transition scenario from my current environmentE to a new one that will include my newly adopted vaxes.  My goal is to F maintain the cluster up at all times. And I will need to progressivelyH test and transition hardware from the good old all mighty microvax II to the not-yet-teenager 4000-600.     I have a few questions:   ! In a DSSI environment as follows:   ? ETHERNET          +--------------------+----------------------+ ?                   |                    |                      | B                [node1]              [node2]                [node3](                   |                    |( DSSI              +---[R400X-DISKS]----+      node1 has allocation class of 1,  node2 has allocation class of 2, node3 has allocation class of 3   C node1 will be the primary node with node2 probably down most of the  time.   G What is the best strategy to decide what allocation class the disks and  tape in the R400X should have ?   G What are the implications of them having allocation class 1 versus some  unused number ?   E If I have allocation class of 1 for the disks, are there gotchas when 2 node1 goes down and the serving is done by node2 ?      D Also, I would like to be able to bring node2 up so I can bring node1H down for hardware testing/maintenance, but I'd like node3 to still think it is talking to node1.     D Is it possible to bring node2 up with the same SCSNODE , same decnetG address and same IP address and then shutdown node1 as soon as node2 is H up ? If Node2 has its ethernet disconnected while this happens, would itP make it possible ? (I can then just plug node2 and unplug node1 from the ether).  A This would happen only during my transition period. Once I am all G installed, node2 will be given a permanent role and its own system root E etc.  So not intertested in "is this supported", but rather "how long D can two nodes co-exist with same node-names". If the SCSCSYSTEMID is different, does it matter ?   G Or is this totally impossible and the only way to get around this is to 3 deal with cluster alias for both decnet and TCPIP ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 08:05:09 +0100 ( From: "Rudolf Wingert" <win@fom.fgan.de>@ Subject: Re: HP announces new Integrity Blade Servers - OpenVMS?3 Message-ID: <001501c6020f$0d63ff20$994614ac@wat153>   , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.  + ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C60217.6F286720  Content-Type: text/plain;  	charset="us-ascii"  Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit    Hello,        >>>   : > So HP has now announced the new Integrity Blade Servers:   >   H > http://h18004.www1.hp.com/products/servers/platforms/new11-01.html?jum   > pid=em _CTdec05_spot01   >   G > They say it supports HPUX, Linux and Windows, but nothing of OpenVMS?        H I got an announcement today too (here in Germany).  But if I read right, there is only one supported OS:   B *         Featuring the reliable and secure HP-UX 11i delivers theB capabilities that meet the needs of your most demanding workloads   H *         HP Systems Insight Manager provides a single point of control,? for HP-UX 11i solutions on Itanium as well as Linux and Windows E solutions on Xeon and Opteron-based platforms within a single console   G It would be good to get an OpenVMS Blade, to have a second way to build  a cluster in a box.    Best regards Rudolf Wingert     + ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C60217.6F286720  Content-Type: text/html; 	charset="us-ascii" + Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable    <html>   <head>9 <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =  charset=3Dus-ascii">    @ <meta name=3DGenerator content=3D"Microsoft Word 10 (filtered)">   <style>  <!--  /* Font Definitions */   @font-face  	{font-family:Wingdings; 	panose-1:5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;}   /* Style Definitions */)  p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal 
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 	{margin:0cm;  	margin-bottom:.0001pt;  	font-size:10.0pt; 	font-family:Arial;} @page Section1 	{size:612.0pt 792.0pt; ' 	margin:72.0pt 116.0pt 72.0pt 116.0pt;}  div.Section1 	{page:Section1;}   /* List Definitions */   ol  	{margin-bottom:0cm;}  ul 	{margin-bottom:0cm;}  -->  </style>   </head>   + <body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3Dred>    <div class=3DSection1>  ; <p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span = 3 style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Hello,</span></font></p>   ; <p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span = 3 style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>   ; <p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span = 9 style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt;&gt;&gt;</span></font></p>   ; <p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =  style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; 1 So HP has now announced the new Integrity Blade =  Servers:</span></font></p>  ; <p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span = 1 style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt;</span></font></p>   ; <p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =  style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; J http://h18004.www1.hp.com/products/servers/platforms/new11-01.html?jum</s= pan></font></p>   ; <p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =  style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; * pid=3Dem _CTdec05_spot01</span></font></p>  ; <p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span = 1 style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt;</span></font></p>   ; <p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =  style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; > They say it supports HPUX, Linux and Windows, but nothing of = OpenVMS?</span></font></p>  ; <p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span = 3 style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>   ; <p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =  style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>IJ got an announcement today too (here in </span></font>Germany). &nbsp;But = if I/ read right, there is only one supported OS:</p>    <p class=3DMsoPlainText = 6 style=3D'margin-left:38.5pt;text-indent:-18.0pt'><font size=3D2 face=3DSymbol><span =; style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol'>&middot;<font H size=3D1 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =8 Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;G </span></font></span></font>Featuring the reliable and secure HP-UX 11i F delivers the capabilities that meet the needs of your most demanding = workloads </p>   <p class=3DMsoPlainText = 6 style=3D'margin-left:38.5pt;text-indent:-18.0pt'><font size=3D2 face=3DSymbol><span =; style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol'>&middot;<font H size=3D1 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =8 Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;J </span></font></span></font>HP Systems Insight Manager provides a single = point H of control, for HP-UX 11i solutions on Itanium as well as <u>Linux and = Windows C solutions on Xeon and Opteron-based platforms </u>within a single =  console</p>   ; <p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =  style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>It H would be good to get an OpenVMS Blade, to have a second way to build a = cluster  in a box.</span></font></p>   ; <p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =  style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Best ( regards Rudolf Wingert</span></font></p>   </div>   </body>    </html>   - ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C60217.6F286720--    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 19:43:25 +0800  From: prep@prep.synonet.com @ Subject: Re: HP announces new Integrity Blade Servers - OpenVMS?- Message-ID: <87irtpnu76.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   * Jeff Cameron <roktsci@comcast.net> writes:  : > So HP has now announced the new Integrity Blade Servers:  N > http://h18004.www1.hp.com/products/servers/platforms/new11-01.html?jumpid=em > _CTdec05_spot01   G > They say it supports HPUX, Linux and Windows, but nothing of OpenVMS?   F HP has no integrity when it comes to VMS. You should know that by now.   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Dec 2005 06:14:35 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) @ Subject: Re: HP announces new Integrity Blade Servers - OpenVMS?3 Message-ID: <$zAzCJ8bJ39l@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <43A24900.69E109B8@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > Larry Kilgallen wrote:G >> "For use with (Open)VMS, of course." tells me (as if I did not know) G >> that HP is interested in how much additional hardware they will sell , >> by making VMS available on this hardware. >>  7 >> Is that such a bad question for them to care about ?  >  > Yes. > ? > It is about vision and it is about leadership in the market.     Vision does not pay the bills.  C DEC had the Vision to implement an A1 Security Kernel on VAX before D they discovered there was no market.  It was absolutely cutting edgeC for a commercial product, using Pascal rather than something like C B to make the reliability mathematically provable.  But there was no market.   I > Did businesses knock on microsoft's doors to ask for flawed software to J > run their enterprises ? No. Gates decided he wanted that market and wentJ > for it and shoved Wintel crap down enterprises throaths despite it beingG > an illogical choice. And now he's making money from enterprise sales.   E Certainly Microsoft, more than anyone else, carefully calculates what 
 will sell.   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Dec 2005 06:16:16 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) @ Subject: RE: HP announces new Integrity Blade Servers - OpenVMS?3 Message-ID: <ILpQzA5rNTaw@eisner.encompasserve.org>   | In article <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB77368E@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>, "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> writes: >  >> -----Original Message----- : >> From: Larry Kilgallen [mailto:Kilgallen@SpamCop.net]=20  F >> > Thinking about the above, perhaps HPTC, movies on demand, digital6 >> > theatres etc might be something to think about .. >>=20 A >> I guess they get better movies up in Canada than down here :-)  >>=20  > I > Yeah, they discovered that electrons move quicker in the cold, hence it > > makes it cheaper to download movies here. It was part of theG > justification for laying high speed fibre across most of the country.   E In the US, the justification for that was "decrease shareholder value  by saturating the market" :-)    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Dec 2005 06:18:25 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) @ Subject: Re: HP announces new Integrity Blade Servers - OpenVMS?3 Message-ID: <j6pfW1G+wUp5@eisner.encompasserve.org>   Z In article <11q4jinojb5gl0f@corp.supernews.com>, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes: > Main, Kerry wrote:  D >> Thinking about the above, perhaps HPTC, movies on demand, digital4 >> theatres etc might be something to think about .. > H > I guess my only question is, which of the above cannot be done on the " > platforms VMS currently runs on?  C The (unwritten) part about "fits in a Blade form-factor, conforming C to the latest industry buzzwords".  There may be technical benefits 1 as well, but market appeal is a critical quality.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 08:24:08 -0500 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> @ Subject: RE: HP announces new Integrity Blade Servers - OpenVMS?R Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB773691@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----J > From: Alex Daniels [mailto:alexNOSPAMHERETHANKSdaniels@themail.co.uk]=20" > Sent: December 15, 2005 11:48 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com B > Subject: Re: HP announces new Integrity Blade Servers - OpenVMS? >=207 > "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> wrote in message=20 @ > news:FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB77368B@tayexc19.americas. > cpqcorp.net...> > >- Think of a rack full of blades (e.g. 100) and how many=20 > system disk itG > >takes.  [hint, at least 1 local disk for each blade with Windows and F > >Linux and most other UNIX's. Some OS's require local disks (esp forA > >clusters) as they do not yet support full booting over SAN]=20 
 > Think about F > >the effort to keep all of these systems in sync [hint tools need to@ > >autocopy stuff all over the place. Each disk is a separate=20
 > OS upgrade]  > > H > >With OpenVMS cluster this would be one system disk on the SAN for theH > >entire rack (well, two if you wanted higher availability with rollingD > >upgrades). Of course by one, I mean one HW partition on SAN. WithC > >OpenVMS, common files are updated once and change is immediately 7 > >available to all systems because it's the same file.  >=20A > I thought the (supported) limit on nodes in a cluster was 96=20  > not 100, so I=20? > would need more than the 1 system disk you suggest, and in=20  > fact they couldnt=20% > be in the same (supported) cluster.  >=20	 > Alex=20  >=20  D Supported means officially tested. There have been cases in the pastA where some Customers have run greater than 96 nodes in an OpenVMS C cluster with no issues. As I recall there was a university that ran - something like 120 WS's/servers in a cluster.   H In terms of testing, if 100-200 IPF blades were put in a few racks, thenF OpenVMS, HP-UX, Windows and Linux groups could all share the equipmentF for testing their OS's. That is a much easier config to justify largerC cluster testing than getting > 100 systems together to test OpenVMS ! clustering only e.g. on Alpha.=20   H Not sure what the real OpenVMS cluster limit is, and there may indeed beA some tweaks needed to go above some high number, but I remember a B conversation awhile ago over a few pints  where the number 200+ or5 something in that neighbourhood was kicked around.=20   - Who knows, perhaps something could happen ...    :-)    Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  4 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 14:03:25 -0000 @ From: "Alex Daniels" <alexNOSPAMHERETHANKSdaniels@themail.co.uk>@ Subject: Re: HP announces new Integrity Blade Servers - OpenVMS?6 Message-ID: <43a2c92d$0$29573$da0feed9@news.zen.co.uk>  3 "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> wrote in message  L news:FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB773691@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net...I >Not sure what the real OpenVMS cluster limit is, and there may indeed be B >some tweaks needed to go above some high number, but I remember aC >conversation awhile ago over a few pints  where the number 200+ or 3 >something in that neighbourhood was kicked around.  > . >Who knows, perhaps something could happen ... >   I I believe 128 is the unsupported limit, but can't say I've tried it, any  : increase even to 128 supported would be very cool though..   Alex     ------------------------------    Date: 16 Dec 2005 08:48:04 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) @ Subject: RE: HP announces new Integrity Blade Servers - OpenVMS?3 Message-ID: <Vw8GtwT8L7HN@eisner.encompasserve.org>   | In article <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB773691@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>, "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> writes:  J > In terms of testing, if 100-200 IPF blades were put in a few racks, thenH > OpenVMS, HP-UX, Windows and Linux groups could all share the equipmentH > for testing their OS's. That is a much easier config to justify largerE > cluster testing than getting > 100 systems together to test OpenVMS # > clustering only e.g. on Alpha.=20   = Just make sure the various operating system groups contribute = financially in proportion to how long it takes them to get to # a running state on that many nodes.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 11:26:21 -0500 - From: William Webb <william.w.webb@gmail.com> @ Subject: Re: HP announces new Integrity Blade Servers - OpenVMS?I Message-ID: <8660a3a10512160826v1c9252b3m86d96bd0f6ff2158@mail.gmail.com>   7 On 15 Dec 2005 11:59:04 -0800, johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com ! <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com> wrote:  > William Webb wrote: : > > On 12/15/05, Jeff Cameron <roktsci@comcast.net> wrote:> > > > So HP has now announced the new Integrity Blade Servers: > > > L > > > http://h18004.www1.hp.com/products/servers/platforms/new11-01.html?ju=	 mpid=3Dem  > > > _CTdec05_spot01  > > > K > > > They say it supports HPUX, Linux and Windows, but nothing of OpenVMS?  > > >  > > >  > > F > > It is my understanding that the entire blade concept was developed= > > because Windows doesn't scale well when it moves into the  > > multiprocessor world...  > >  > 6 > One of the things I don't think Windows does well isF > "compartmentization" (I know, I just now made that up), i.e. running, > multiple application  on the same machine.   Multitasking, perhaps?   I know it can happen on any D > system, but Windows seems to be more likely to have problems.  ForG > example, on a job I had a couple of years back a co-worker who was an D > MSCE, etc and did a lot of playing with things at home had troubleH > running Exchange (might have been RIS) on the same server that was hisG > Domain Controller (Active Directory) (I think - the details are fuzzy H > now).  Through research he discovered that Microsoft did not reccomendI > such a configuration because, since they ran as Windows services, there E > was no way to specifiy a startup order and therefore no way to make F > sure that the Active Directory services started before Exchange did.F > Maybe this was not the exact problem, but that's ths gist of it as IH > understood it at the time.  If I remember right, he solved the problemG > by using the Microsoft Virtual Server (beta releases) and put several E > virtual machines on his one server and set them up each running one  > application..     I like their "Virtual Security".   WWWebb   --C NOTE: This email address is only used for noncommerical VMS-related  correspondence. C All unsolicited commercial email will be deemed to be a request for 8 services pursuant to the terms and conditions located at# http://bellsouthpwp.net/w/e/webbww/    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 12:58:27 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> ' Subject: MOUNT/BIND and BACKUP question , Message-ID: <43A30037.9AF4333C@teksavvy.com>  E Not long ago. someone asked about BACKUP/IMAGE of a bound volume to a  new single drive (impossible).  B I current have a 10 gig drive known to all nodes in the cluster asE $DISK2.  During migration, I have at my disposal 4 * 2gig DSSI drives G that I could move the data to (it will fit) while the 10 gig SCSI drive @ is reinstalled from the all mighty microvax II to a new machine.  E Despite all the warnings about bound volumes, I think it is still the H best/easiest solution sicn applications could still see a single $DISK2.B Otherwise, I would have to go through all software configs to moveR individual software to their own drives. And this bound volume would be temporary.  ' I current have 4 un-initialised drives.   D Does it matter how each drive is initialised before they are groupedC into a bound volume ?  (/ACCESSED, /CLUSTER_SIZE, /DIRECTORIES etc    G How about the very first drive. Do I need to make its INDEXF.SYS bigger < than normal so it can hold all the files of the volume set ?       Second question:  R With BACKUP/IMAGE , I know that all file attributes, protection etc are preserved.     D Since I can't use BACKUP/IMAGE from a single drive to a bound volumeF set, I need to be careful about providing the right backup qualifiers. I can think only of:' 	/BY_OWNER-ORIGINAL in output disk spec  	 F Which would preserve file ownership. Are there other qualifiers I needB to provide on a DISK to DISK backup to ensure that the files are aF mirror image in terms of protection, onwer, ACLs, create dates and any other atrributes ?  0 (and yes, I am aware of alias directory issues).   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Dec 2005 01:08:56 -08004 From: "Christian J. Bauer" <c.bauer@mc-lindinger.de>3 Subject: Re: R400X: converting DSSI shelves to SCSI B Message-ID: <1134724136.653738.52660@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>   Michael Moroney schrieb:  G > >Any chance I could do this with 1992 vintage SCSI controllers on the / > >QBUS ?  (2 vaxes accessing the same drives).  > As stated, unlikely.  D No need for SCSI controllers. A HSD05 (or similar) would "route" theF DSSI to SCSI drives. As far as I can remember there was also a Version for the RX400.  	 Christian    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 12:10:54 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 3 Subject: Re: R400X: converting DSSI shelves to SCSI , Message-ID: <43A2F515.7555FE0F@teksavvy.com>   "Christian J. Bauer" wrote: F > No need for SCSI controllers. A HSD05 (or similar) would "route" theH > DSSI to SCSI drives. As far as I can remember there was also a Version > for the RX400.  F Thanks for the pointer. Something I don't quite understand is why muchE of the litterature about the HSD05 and HSD10 mentions "Storageworks".  Isn't DSSI totally dead ?     H Also, looking at what is available, some HSD05s are sold as "canisters".H Would those fit inside an R400X cabinet "shelf", and plug into both DSSI! and SCSI layers of the backpane ?   D The other problem I the have is to find the "canisters" to plug SCSIG drives into and insert in the DSSI shelves so that they pickup the SCSI  signals from the backplane.   G Does anyone know the designation for the old SCSI shelves that fit into  old DSSI shelves ?  2 For instance, would RZ1DB-VW fit in DSSI shelves ?  F I take it Digital never released the specs on how to plug a SCSI drive; into the DSSI backpane to pickup the SCSI signals from it ?     C The other option I have without the HSD05 is simply to get my DILOG E QBUS-SCSI adaptor and plug its output into the SCSI input plug on the > cabinet. But then I am still stuck with the question of how toG mechanically fit the SCSI drives into the shelves and have them get the  SCSI signals from the backpane.   F I could always string a SCSI ribbon cable over the backpane. (but then where do I get power from ?)   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 17:47:45 GMT  From: dittman@dittman.net  Subject: Re: SRM memtest( Message-ID: <55Dof.402$Ht4.315@trnddc08>  & Dan Foster <usenet@evilphb.org> wrote:G > And sometimes, things can be changed (e.g. model type) via SRM if one I > knows what knobs to use -- someone posted a specific command to do that 7 > in the case of the XP900 and DS10 just the other day.   * That command can be found on HP's website:  _ http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/genericDocument?lc=en&cc=us&docname=c00060273&dlc=en&lang=en  --   Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 19:41:21 +0800  From: prep@prep.synonet.com ! Subject: Re: Storageworks shelves - Message-ID: <87mzj1nuam.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   E "David Turner, Island Computers US Corp" <dbturner@icusc.com> writes:   2 > Perhaps someone can explain to me the following:  E > Why, when SCSI was implemented, did it have the 7 drive limitation?   A It is 8 in fact, the HBA counts as well. When the bus arbitration @ phase happens, and units wanting to get the bus assert data lineC <their addess>, so every unit nedds a bitline all of its own. 8 bit ' bus, 8 units max, 16 bit bus, 16 units.    > Why not 16 or 32?  > Of course UW> is 14 but why?  E > Did someone in the SCSI original design team think that noone would  > ever need more than 7 drives?   F For max performance, you can have at most 2 or 3 drive per bus, exceptD for massbus that peaked at 4-5. This `rule' has been good for a LONG time, and many interface types.    --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 08:17:52 +0100 ( From: "Rudolf Wingert" <win@fom.fgan.de>) Subject: Re: UK VMS HP contract customers 3 Message-ID: <001a01c60210$d3db8870$994614ac@wat153>    Hello,  F I think. That HP do sometimes not know what they support! We do have aH Campus contract since many years. For every kind of Alpha we did have anG OpenVMS base system support. Also an prior version support and a tier 1 G to 4 driver, printer... support. Starting with next year, we should get H only the CDDs and Advance Server licenses. Since three month the clarifyH this without any result. May be HP will get a problem to support all theE old Alphas, because they did fire all support people here in Germany. D Helpdesk in India will not have the experience that many time as the Germans. Best regards R. Wingert    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Dec 2005 07:37:36 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) ) Subject: Re: UK VMS HP contract customers 3 Message-ID: <p848p3CtovIg@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ] In article <11q3a9ierr8jd94@corp.supernews.com>, "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca> writes:  > I > "David Turner, Island Computers US Corp" <dbturner@icusc.com> wrote in  = > message news:FvVnf.16454$MA2.6628@bignews6.bellsouth.net... J >>I heard in the USA that several platforms have had suport canned on them >> >> DS10 DS20 DS20e ES40  >> >> Anyone able to confirm that?  >> >> David >> > O > Our HP representative assured us this is NOT the case, these machines CAN be    > put on a maintenance contract. >   J    HP just gave us a quote on our VAX 4000 Model 105, DEC 3000 Model 400S E    (an EV4), Infoserver 1000, and associated peripherals, the newest  C    of which is 12 years old and the oldest of which is probably 20. -    (Anybody remember when RRD42 was current?)   E    I can't see any reason to believe they would not support DS and ES 	    boxes.   D    It is possible that some customer somewhere had a contract with aB    third party maintenance supplier who wouldn't renew support on E    boxes that aren't brand spanking new.  Keeps the profit margin up.    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 15:20:32 GMT 7 From: John Malmberg <malmberg@dskwld.zko.hp.compaq.dec> / Subject: Re: Upgrade a 5300A controller via CD? / Message-ID: <4XAof.761$qX5.56@news.cpqcorp.net>    johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com wrote: / > David Turner, Island Computers US Corp wrote:  > B >>The DS5300a has the firmware (V3.40) included on the Firmware CD# >>(downloadable in ISO format here)  >>6 >>ftp://ftp.digital.com/pub/DEC/Alpha/firmware/v70.zip >>L >>It auto-updates from the SRM when loading the new System Firmware (V7.0-3) >>D > I don't suppose this firmware could be loaded into a 5300 to get a > 5300a?  N http://h18002.www1.hp.com/alphaserver/products/storage/sa5300a/sa5300a_qa.html  $ See Question and answers #8, and #9.   -John ! malmberg@dskwld.zko.hp.compaq.dec  Personal Opinion Only    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Dec 2005 08:39:12 -0800; From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com> / Subject: Re: Upgrade a 5300A controller via CD? B Message-ID: <1134751152.578913.15800@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   John Malmberg wrote:! > johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com wrote: 1 > > David Turner, Island Computers US Corp wrote:  > > D > >>The DS5300a has the firmware (V3.40) included on the Firmware CD% > >>(downloadable in ISO format here)  > >>8 > >>ftp://ftp.digital.com/pub/DEC/Alpha/firmware/v70.zip > >>N > >>It auto-updates from the SRM when loading the new System Firmware (V7.0-3) > >>F > > I don't suppose this firmware could be loaded into a 5300 to get a
 > > 5300a? > P > http://h18002.www1.hp.com/alphaserver/products/storage/sa5300a/sa5300a_qa.html > & > See Question and answers #8, and #9. >  > -John # > malmberg@dskwld.zko.hp.compaq.dec  > Personal Opinion Only   ' Thanks John, I hadn't seen that before.    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Dec 2005 10:01:41 -0800; From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com> / Subject: Re: Upgrade a 5300A controller via CD? A Message-ID: <1134752996.083850.3550@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com wrote:  > John Malmberg wrote:# > > johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com wrote: 3 > > > David Turner, Island Computers US Corp wrote:  > > > F > > >>The DS5300a has the firmware (V3.40) included on the Firmware CD' > > >>(downloadable in ISO format here)  > > >>: > > >>ftp://ftp.digital.com/pub/DEC/Alpha/firmware/v70.zip > > >>P > > >>It auto-updates from the SRM when loading the new System Firmware (V7.0-3) > > >>H > > > I don't suppose this firmware could be loaded into a 5300 to get a > > > 5300a? > > R > > http://h18002.www1.hp.com/alphaserver/products/storage/sa5300a/sa5300a_qa.html > > ( > > See Question and answers #8, and #9. > > 	 > > -John % > > malmberg@dskwld.zko.hp.compaq.dec  > > Personal Opinion Only  > ) > Thanks John, I hadn't seen that before.   C I also hadn't seen Q15 before which is a real show stopper too. I'd G hoped to put one in an XP1000 but the SRM there is frozen at V5.9-1  Oh  well.    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 18:05:43 GMT  From: dittman@dittman.net / Subject: Re: Upgrade a 5300A controller via CD? ' Message-ID: <XlDof.541$Ht4.87@trnddc08>   8 John Malmberg <malmberg@dskwld.zko.hp.compaq.dec> wrote:! > johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com wrote: 1 > > David Turner, Island Computers US Corp wrote:  > > D > >>The DS5300a has the firmware (V3.40) included on the Firmware CD% > >>(downloadable in ISO format here)  > >>8 > >>ftp://ftp.digital.com/pub/DEC/Alpha/firmware/v70.zip > >>N > >>It auto-updates from the SRM when loading the new System Firmware (V7.0-3) > >>F > > I don't suppose this firmware could be loaded into a 5300 to get a
 > > 5300a?  P > http://h18002.www1.hp.com/alphaserver/products/storage/sa5300a/sa5300a_qa.html  & > See Question and answers #8, and #9.  M That also answers one of my questions.  I have a 5304 and tried hooking disks L in a BA356 (blue UW model) to the external connector.  The 5304 wouldn't seeI them.  I'll need to get one of the new universal StorageWorks shelves and I disks for external drives.  I was banging my head on that one last night.  --   Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 17:20:17 GMT  From: dittman@dittman.net ! Subject: VMS V8.2 SHOW ERROR Bug? ( Message-ID: <lHCof.230$Ht4.154@trnddc08>  D I have a DS10L running VMS V8.2.  If I show a device I see an error:   $ show dev ewa0   . Device                  Device           Error.  Name                   Status           Count. EWA0:                   Online               1   When I show errors I see this:  
 $ show err( %SHOW-S-NOERRORS, no device errors found  ( Is this a bug or am I missing something? --   Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.699 ************************