1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 20 Dec 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 707       Contents: Re: Another Backup suggestion  Re: Another Backup suggestion  Re: Another Backup suggestion  Re: Another Backup suggestion  Re: Another Backup suggestion  Re: Another Backup suggestion " Re: calloc() fails, no more memory" Re: calloc() fails, no more memory Re: Database access from COBOL RE: Database access from COBOL Re: Database access from COBOL) Re: Deleting alias files (blocks deleted) ) Re: Deleting alias files (blocks deleted) ) Re: Deleting alias files (blocks deleted) ) Re: Deleting alias files (blocks deleted) ) Re: Deleting alias files (blocks deleted) ) Re: Deleting alias files (blocks deleted)  Re: format bug in vmsperl  FTP Client with Socks ?  Re: HP's strategy explained :  Re: HP's strategy explained :   Re: Licenses MOD_UNITS question.  Re: Licenses MOD_UNITS question.  Re: Licenses MOD_UNITS question.  Re: Licenses MOD_UNITS question.  Re: Licenses MOD_UNITS question.& Re: Moving directories of files to dos& Re: Moving directories of files to dos Passive node in a cluster ?  Re: Passive node in a cluster ?  Re: Passive node in a cluster ?  Re: Passive node in a cluster ? E Re: PHONE error - Invalid specification of node or person. Try again. E Re: PHONE error - Invalid specification of node or person. Try again. E Re: PHONE error - Invalid specification of node or person. Try again. E Re: PHONE error - Invalid specification of node or person. Try again. E Re: PHONE error - Invalid specification of node or person. Try again. E Re: PHONE error - Invalid specification of node or person. Try again. E Re: PHONE error - Invalid specification of node or person. Try again. E Re: PHONE error - Invalid specification of node or person. Try again.  Re: shadowing questions 0 Some people are willing to support their product4 Re: Some people are willing to support their product! Re: Update on my migration... :-( 9 Re: using SYS$ACM to authenticate arbitrary windows user?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 14:55:50 +0200 7 From: "Guy Peleg" <guy.peleg@remove_this_header@hp.com> & Subject: Re: Another Backup suggestion, Message-ID: <43a7ff58$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  / "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> wrote in message = news:1135009159.323397.127380@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...  >  > Albrecht Schlosser wrote:  > > Phillip Helbig wrote: D > > > In article <11nund.9b.ln@news.hus-soft.de>, Albrecht Schlosser! > > > <ajs856@tiscali.de> writes:  > > >  > > > > > > >>>Last week I added a new qualifier - /PROGRESS_REPORT=n.E > > >>>The new qualifier instructs BACKUP to write progress report to F > > >>>SYS$OUTPUT (which may be a log file) every n seconds.  We writeK > > >>>the new CTRL-T message to the log file (data saved/restored, current < > > >>>file, rate and estimated completion time) prefixed by! > > >>>%BACKUP-I-PROGRESS_REPORT,  > > >>K > > >>Fine, but I'm missing some sort of time stamp, at least with the line C > > >>"... starting verification pass" (or similar). Sometimes it's H > > >>interesting to know how long it took to write the saveset and when> > > >>backup started verification (and backup date recording). > > >  > > >  > > > $ SET PREFIX > > >  > > K > > Nice, didn't know that :-) , but this would only show the completion of  > > the backup command.  > >  > > Albrecht > H > Just to be more clear, and to second this request, SET PREFIX will notF > show you when the verification and backup passes start, or any other" > BACKUP messages for that matter. >   J Would it help if I'll modify the message indicating the verification phase7 started to include date and time? Something similar to:   / Starting verification pass on 20-DEC-2005 07:00    Guy    ------------------------------    Date: 20 Dec 2005 15:12:28 +01006 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)& Subject: Re: Another Backup suggestion, Message-ID: <43a81f5c$1@news.langstoeger.at>  f In article <43a7ff58$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>, "Guy Peleg" <guy.peleg@remove_this_header@hp.com> writes:K >Would it help if I'll modify the message indicating the verification phase 8 >started to include date and time? Something similar to: > 0 >Starting verification pass on 20-DEC-2005 07:00   I vote for YES   --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 09:50:40 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> & Subject: Re: Another Backup suggestion0 Message-ID: <11qg6ei2pj0va12@corp.supernews.com>   Guy Peleg wrote:  L > Would it help if I'll modify the message indicating the verification phase9 > started to include date and time? Something similar to:  > 1 > Starting verification pass on 20-DEC-2005 07:00  >  > Guy  >  >    Yes.   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 10:07:33 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> & Subject: Re: Another Backup suggestion, Message-ID: <43A81E27.592CDC67@teksavvy.com>   Guy Peleg wrote:L > Would it help if I'll modify the message indicating the verification phase9 > started to include date and time? Something similar to:  > 1 > Starting verification pass on 20-DEC-2005 07:00   F It would be nice if all messages (except individual file messgaes fromG /LOG were prefixed with something, and then the date and then the date.    eg:   D %%%20-DEC-2005 05:45:11 Please mount volume 2, volume label BACKUP2 . %%%20-DEC-2005 07:00:15 Volume BACKUP2 Mounted2 %%%20-DEC-2005 07:00:15 Starting verification pass    G This way, in a BACKUP/LOG, you could do a SEARCH file "%%%" and get all F the relevant messages. And having the time ahead means that the record@ is easier to parse with a fixed length header, time and ended by variable length text.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 18:14:18 +0100 , From: Albrecht Schlosser <ajs856@tiscali.de>& Subject: Re: Another Backup suggestion, Message-ID: <06e9od.r8p.ln@news.hus-soft.de>   Guy Peleg wrote:1 > "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> wrote in message ? > news:1135009159.323397.127380@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...  >  >>Albrecht Schlosser wrote:  >> >>>Phillip Helbig wrote: >>> B >>>>In article <11nund.9b.ln@news.hus-soft.de>, Albrecht Schlosser >>>><ajs856@tiscali.de> writes:  >>>> >>>> >>>>= >>>>>>Last week I added a new qualifier - /PROGRESS_REPORT=n. D >>>>>>The new qualifier instructs BACKUP to write progress report toE >>>>>>SYS$OUTPUT (which may be a log file) every n seconds.  We write J >>>>>>the new CTRL-T message to the log file (data saved/restored, current; >>>>>>file, rate and estimated completion time) prefixed by   >>>>>>%BACKUP-I-PROGRESS_REPORT, >>>>> J >>>>>Fine, but I'm missing some sort of time stamp, at least with the lineB >>>>>"... starting verification pass" (or similar). Sometimes it'sG >>>>>interesting to know how long it took to write the saveset and when = >>>>>backup started verification (and backup date recording).  >>>> >>>> >>>>$ SET PREFIX >>>> >>> J >>>Nice, didn't know that :-) , but this would only show the completion of >>>the backup command. >>>  >>>Albrecht  >>H >>Just to be more clear, and to second this request, SET PREFIX will notF >>show you when the verification and backup passes start, or any other" >>BACKUP messages for that matter. >> >  > L > Would it help if I'll modify the message indicating the verification phase9 > started to include date and time? Something similar to:  > 1 > Starting verification pass on 20-DEC-2005 07:00  >  > Guy    Yes, please :-)    or some combination like:   F %BACKUP-I-STARTVERIFY, Starting verification pass on 20-DEC-2005 07:00  . (should not be longer than 80 chars, however).   Albrecht   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Dec 2005 09:22:34 -0800 From: "R Boyd" <bob@hax.com>& Subject: Re: Another Backup suggestionC Message-ID: <1135099354.293090.173610@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   7 How about a standard prefix like %BACKUP-I-<identifier>    Backup already writes:: %BACKUP-I-STARTRECORD, starting backup date recording passG I'd like to be able to have the timestamp added to this message and all $ the other messages logged by BACKUP.  F This could be of tremendous value for a number of reasons.  One reasonF is that when an error occurs, the amount of time from the start of theG backup operation to the time of the error may have some bearing on what  course of action is taken.  F I'd also like to see BACKUP log a message at the very beginning of theF operation to flag that it actually started doing something rather than) waiting on image activation or something.    Robert   JF Mezei wrote:  > Guy Peleg wrote:N > > Would it help if I'll modify the message indicating the verification phase; > > started to include date and time? Something similar to:  > > 3 > > Starting verification pass on 20-DEC-2005 07:00  > H > It would be nice if all messages (except individual file messgaes fromI > /LOG were prefixed with something, and then the date and then the date.  >  > eg:  > E > %%%20-DEC-2005 05:45:11 Please mount volume 2, volume label BACKUP2 0 > %%%20-DEC-2005 07:00:15 Volume BACKUP2 Mounted4 > %%%20-DEC-2005 07:00:15 Starting verification pass >  > I > This way, in a BACKUP/LOG, you could do a SEARCH file "%%%" and get all H > the relevant messages. And having the time ahead means that the recordB > is easier to parse with a fixed length header, time and ended by > variable length text.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 11:05:44 +0100 & From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@decus.ch>+ Subject: Re: calloc() fails, no more memory , Message-ID: <40q3ajF1c61hiU1@individual.net>   Ken Fairfield wrote: > Karsten Nyblad wrote:  >  >> Hans Blom wrote:  >> >>> Hello all,K >>> I'm running OpenVMS 7.3-2 on an Alphaserver. A programmer has developed K >>> an application that, in order to work with speed, wants to keep as much K >>> as possible of the data in memory. At some point he does an calloc() to H >>> get a memoryarea to keep about 400 000 pointers. He gets a null backH >>> from the call, basically OpenVMS saying - sorry sir, no more memory! >>> L >>> We have tried raising pgflquota, wsextent (in order to decrease need forK >>> paging) and every other conceivable quota both in sysuaf and sysgen. We K >>> can see that as long as the program works in memory everything is fine, H >>> but as soon as wsextent is hit and it has to start paging, it fails. >>> 3 >>> I'm stuck! Anybody got any ideas on what to do?  >>>  >>> Regards  >>> 
 >>> Hans Blom  >> >> >>F >> There is one system parameter, that I do not understand why nobody C >> have mentioned.  Is it just me, who have not had my hands on an    >> OpenVMS machine for too long? >  > ? >    I don't know why no one mentioned it either, but I haven't 4 > been paying particular attention to this thread... > A >    On VAXes, there is the SYSGEN parameter VIRTUALPAGECNT which ? > limits the maximum virtual memory any process can have.  This > > parameter should be set less than the total of your physicalC > memory plus your total pagefile space.  On Alphas, this parameter > > is obsolete (and was removed at some point rather early on). >  > [...]  >      From SYSGEN HELP SYS_PARAMETERS  @ "Starting with OpenVMS Alpha V7.0, VIRTUALPAGECNT is an obsoleteA parameter. Note, however, that the parameter remains in existence = on Alpha systems for compatibility purposes and has a default A and maximum value of %X7FFFFFFF. SYSBOOT and AUTOGEN enforce this  default value."   &  From Hans' opening post on the topic:  . "I'm running OpenVMS 7.3-2 on an Alphaserver."   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 19:27:54 +0100 & From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@decus.ch>+ Subject: Re: calloc() fails, no more memory , Message-ID: <40r0o3F1c2b33U1@individual.net>   Jim Mehlhop wrote:   <snip>   > J > I haven't been watching this thread either, but it does say Alphaserver / > VMS7.3-2 so VIRTUALPAGECNT is not applicable.  > D > Since I haven't watched I will ask a basic question.  Do you have  > sufficient pagefile? > B > If so then the only thing I can think of is that, if I remember F > correctly CALLOC used a heap of memory.  If you then need to expand H > address space for some other reason and then Calloc needs more memory I > you can get to a situation where the calloc memory is interleaved with  G > expand memory space and if you try to shrink memory it can not do it  J > because the calloc heap is in the middle of it.  If this activity keeps I > going on then you ultimately end up with infinite memory growth and at    > some point hit pagefile quota. >   C I think you may have hit the nail on the head there, and as a side  E product also explained why some programs increase their virtual size   "forever" until restarted.  +  From Hans' post of 13.12.2005 20:37 (CET):   G  >I tried a loop calloc:ing 400000 pointers (1.6 Mb approx). The 383:rd G                                                                  ^^^^^^ :  >attempt fails. errno = %x0c, vaxc$errno = 0. I think theE  >programmer/developer should do a review of his program,  the calloc A  >failing can't be the main problem, and then he is welcome back.    ------------------------------    Date: 20 Dec 2005 07:49:34 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) ' Subject: Re: Database access from COBOL 3 Message-ID: <eyDlVwqsspUD@eisner.encompasserve.org>   W In article <40p435F195ufqU1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:  > K > Schools have often worked out agreements with companies that allowed them I > to offer really good deals on computers but the only school I even knew @ > that mandated every student buying a computer was West Point.   E    The first school to mandate students bring personal computers was  B    Steven's Tech, in Hoboken.  IIRC they specified IBM compatable.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 09:18:36 -0500 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> ' Subject: RE: Database access from COBOL R Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB77379A@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----3 > From: Dave Froble [mailto:davef@tsoft-inc.com]=20 " > Sent: December 19, 2005 11:54 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ) > Subject: Re: Database access from COBOL  >=20 > Main, Kerry wrote: > >>-----Original Message-----5 > >>From: Dave Froble [mailto:davef@tsoft-inc.com]=20 # > >>Sent: December 19, 2005 1:38 PM  > >>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com + > >>Subject: Re: Database access from COBOL  > >>   [major snip ...]     > >=20C > > Fwiw, lets not forget that where larger numbers of licenses are ? > > required, I am sure some custom arrangements could be made.  >=20I > S**t!  Now you ARE going to hold his hand.  You'll show up to do the=20  > installation also? >=20 > --=20 6 > David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04506 > Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596@ > DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com > 170 Grimplin Road  > Vanderbilt, PA  15486  >=20  C As with any Customer, there are always ways to help them through an  admin process.   Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  4 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 10:32:56 -0600 2 From: "-Andy-" <see2go4me@spamdelicious.yahoo.com>' Subject: Re: Database access from COBOL 6 Message-ID: <Xns9732757DB3D09see2go4me@216.196.97.131>  ! Bob Koehler enlightened us with:      > Bill Gunshannon) writes:   > > ; > > Schools have often worked out agreements with companies 4 > > that allowed them to offer really good deals on < > > computers but the only school I even knew that mandated 3 > >every student buying a computer was West Point.   > 8 >    The first school to mandate students bring personal8 >    computers was Steven's Tech, in Hoboken.  IIRC they >    specified IBM compatable.    > How long ago was that? Clarkson University in Northern NY has 9 been requiring that students purchase computers since at  = least the mid-80's (I knew somebody who went there back then  9 who had to buy a school mandated Zenith Z100, and I have  = brother just finishing up there this spring who had to buy a  
 computer.)   -Andy-   --  4 You can get anything you want, at Alice's Restaurant -- Excepting Alice   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 10:31:40 GMT   From: John Santos <john@egh.com>2 Subject: Re: Deleting alias files (blocks deleted)* Message-ID: <g4Rpf.7155$7f3.1257@trnddc01>   Dave Froble wrote: > AEF wrote: >  >> John Santos wrote:  >> >>> AEF wrote: >>>  >>>> JF Mezei wrote: >>>> >> >> [...] >>J >>>>> If I deleted [000000]SYSBOOT.EXE, wouldn't ANA/DISK then report thatD >>>>> [VMS$COMMON.SYSEXE]SYSBOOT.EXE is some rogue directory entry ? >>>> >>>> >>>>H >>>> Only if you deleted the primary entry. That would delete the actualH >>>> header and data of the file, leaving an orphaned alias in some .DIRI >>>> file. ANAL/DISK would complain about that! But you deleted the alias I >>>> and fortunately still have the primary entry along with the data and  >>>> file header.  >>>> >>> F >>> On a VAX?  Never!  As others have posted, deleting the file by any >> >> >> >> Yes.  >> >>D >>> of its aliases releases the file header, and deallocates all theG >>> blocks, leaving any other directory entries as dangling pointers to  >>> a deleted file.  >> >> >> >> Not on my VAX systems!  >>! >> Example (run on VAX/VMS v6.1):  >>
 >> $ TYPE A.A  >> A.A >> $ DIREC/FILE  >>' >> Directory DISK$DATA1:[FELDMAN.DCL.A]  >># >> A.A;1                (44834,5,0)  >> >> Total of 1 file. 
 >> $ TYPE A.A  >> A.A >> $ SET FILE A.A/ENTER=B.B  >> $ DIREC/FILE  >>' >> Directory DISK$DATA1:[FELDMAN.DCL.A]  >># >> A.A;1                (44834,5,0) # >> B.B;1                (44834,5,0)  >> >> Total of 2 files.
 >> $ DEL B.B; G >> %DELETE-I-FILDEL, DISK$DATA1:[FELDMAN.DCL.A]B.B;1 deleted (4 blocks)  >> $ DIREC/FILE  >>' >> Directory DISK$DATA1:[FELDMAN.DCL.A]  >># >> A.A;1                (44834,5,0)  >> >> Total of 1 file. 
 >> $ TYPE A.A  >> A.A >> $ >> >>7 >>> This has always been true, ever since alias entries L >>> have been possible, VMS V1.0, IIRC.  (SET FILE/ENTER and SET FILE/REMOVEF >>> came about *long* before the cluster common directory structure of >>> V3.7 or so.) >> >> >>I >> Interesting. (I did qualify my statement with ISTM.) For what purpose? # >> They're a pain to keep track of.  >> >>H >>> Only on Alpha VMS 7.3(-1?) or later, on an ODS-5 disk with hardlinksE >>> enabled is the above true.  Ans AFAIK, it doesn't distinguish the E >>> primary entry from alias entries, it just doesn't delete the file & >>> until the link count goes to zero. >> >> >>I >> But on my VAX systems, deleting any alias leaves the file alone as you B >> can see above. Deleting the primary entry leaves dangling alias >> entries.  >> > K > I don't think you're 'getting it'.  If I read what you posted correctly,  I > A.A and B.B are both files in directory [FELDMAN.DCL.A].  What's being  K > discussed, if I understand it correctly, is having file A.A in directory  K > [FELDMAN.DCL.A], and having another directory for the exact same file in  K > directory [FELDMAN.DCL.B] also.  Then, regardless which file you delete,  H > [FELDMAN.DCL.A]A.A or [FELDMAN.DCL.B]A.A will result in the directory K > entry and file being deleted, and leaving a directory entry in the other  ( > directory without a coresponding file.  E Ugh!  I took the radical step of actually trying it.  It does seem to > work exactly as Alan says, whether the files are in different G directories or the same directory.  (VAX V7.3 and Alpha V7.3-2 on ODS-2  disks.)   D I think this must be one of those new-fangled V5.5 features, becauseC I couldn't find any mention of it in the V6.2 or V7.x Release Notes  or New Features books.       --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 11:51:14 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)2 Subject: Re: Deleting alias files (blocks deleted)$ Message-ID: <do8r7i$19a$3@online.de>  C In article <1135055670.045920.190600@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>, ' "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> writes:     > Not on my VAX systems! >   > Example (run on VAX/VMS v6.1): >  > $ TYPE A.A > A.A  > $ DIREC/FILE > & > Directory DISK$DATA1:[FELDMAN.DCL.A] > " > A.A;1                (44834,5,0) >  > Total of 1 file. > $ TYPE A.A > A.A  > $ SET FILE A.A/ENTER=B.B > $ DIREC/FILE > & > Directory DISK$DATA1:[FELDMAN.DCL.A] > " > A.A;1                (44834,5,0)" > B.B;1                (44834,5,0) >  > Total of 2 files.  > $ DEL B.B;F > %DELETE-I-FILDEL, DISK$DATA1:[FELDMAN.DCL.A]B.B;1 deleted (4 blocks) > $ DIREC/FILE > & > Directory DISK$DATA1:[FELDMAN.DCL.A] > " > A.A;1                (44834,5,0) >  > Total of 1 file. > $ TYPE A.A > A.A  > $   4 I see the same behaviour on 7.3 VAX and 7.3-2 ALPHA.  F I seem to remember something about the behaviour depending on whether H the "real" file or the alias is first alphabetically.  Test at your own  risk!    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 07:09:50 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 2 Subject: Re: Deleting alias files (blocks deleted), Message-ID: <43A7F48C.5925A741@teksavvy.com>  
 AEF wrote:H > But on my VAX systems, deleting any alias leaves the file alone as youA > can see above. Deleting the primary entry leaves dangling alias 
 > entries.  F On my VAX, the behaviour seems to match your opinion, but goes against$ whate everyone else has been saying.  G And I am tryuly sorry if I didn't remember that obscure SET FILE/REMOVE F command which is so seldom used that one can't be expected to rememberE 100% of the time. You seem, coming from a MAC background, alias files G have always been treated safely with the same "delete" procedure (throw C in the trash) as the master file without ever having to worry about H deleting the alias actually deleting the real file. I think even windowsF has that intelligent behaviour and frankly, I can't understand why VMS couldn't either.  B if DFU DIR/ALIAS is able to spot an alias file, why can't DELETE ?  G Also, if I have an alias CHOOCOLATE.DAT pointing to VANILLA.DAT, when I G issue the DELETE CHOCOLATE.DAT, woudln't DETELE then lookup the file ID F in INDEXF.SYS and in that record, see that the filename is VANILLA.DATF and then know that CHOCOLATE.DAT is just an alias which means that theG only operation needed is to remove the CHOCOLATE.DAT from the directory  file containing it ?    ; Note: the MAC has had this capability since the mid 1980s.      F I certaintly didn't create the [000000]SYSBOOT.EXE alias. It must haveF happened as part of some upgrade at one point in time, or perhaps as aG result of ANA/DISK/REPAIR or whatever. I also recall that BACKUP at one @ point woudln't recreate a system disk properly, requiring systemC managers to fiddle with some of the alias entry files (I think that G [SYS0]SYSCOMMON.DIR was the real file and [000000]VMS$COMMON.DIR was an / alias (when it should be the other way around).    ------------------------------    Date: 20 Dec 2005 07:27:18 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 2 Subject: Re: Deleting alias files (blocks deleted)3 Message-ID: <7bURImnYu7fo@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <43A75826.C1B04A10@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > Hoff Hoffman wrote: I >> If some or all of the core parts of the particular OpenVMS system disk H >> are now gone, restore from your most recent off-line BACKUP/IMAGE, or >> reinstall OpenVMS.  >  > , > That is the problem !  They are not gone ! > ] > DFU DIR/ALIAS said that [000000]SYSBOOT.EXE was an alias for [VMS$COMMON.SYSEXE]SYSBOOT.EXE  >   F    VMS dos not normally keep SYSBOOT.EXE in [000000].  I'm begining toG    wonder what DFU uses to determine that a file is an alias.  IIRC if  H    both the DID and the file name in the header match the directory and 1    directory entry then it is the original entry.    ------------------------------    Date: 20 Dec 2005 07:33:32 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 2 Subject: Re: Deleting alias files (blocks deleted)3 Message-ID: <T52HHbCJvMKV@eisner.encompasserve.org>   _ In article <%5Hpf.904$%z1.605@news.cpqcorp.net>, Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com> writes:  >   J > I would also personally tend to consider removing the privileges of any E > user that performed this or similar DELETE on a production OpenVMS  D > system that I was responsible for, in the most blunt of phrasing.   A    We knew a "system manager" who deleted a system root by way of C    $delete [SYSx...]*.*;* and clobbered much of [VMS$COMMON].  This F    was a pre-production system, we were the development contractor and+    he worked for the operations contractor.   (   Guess what he spent his evening doing.  C   This is from the same team that defined READ:==EDIT/READ and then @   couldn't run SHUTDOWN.COM.  The customer came to depend on us.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 18:21:04 +0100 , From: Albrecht Schlosser <ajs856@tiscali.de>2 Subject: Re: Deleting alias files (blocks deleted), Message-ID: <nie9od.kbp.ln@news.hus-soft.de>   JF Mezei wrote:    > I > Also, if I have an alias CHOOCOLATE.DAT pointing to VANILLA.DAT, when I I > issue the DELETE CHOCOLATE.DAT, woudln't DETELE then lookup the file ID H > in INDEXF.SYS and in that record, see that the filename is VANILLA.DATH > and then know that CHOCOLATE.DAT is just an alias which means that theI > only operation needed is to remove the CHOCOLATE.DAT from the directory  > file containing it ?  F I'd guess, no. First of all, the filename might be the same, but much  more important (IMHO):  I what about all the files in [SYS0.SYSEXE] or (e.g.) some subdirectory of  H this: There is only one real file, but the directory SYSEXE is an alias!  0 and what if there are more directory levels? ...   Albrecht   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 09:56:14 GMT   From: John Santos <john@egh.com>" Subject: Re: format bug in vmsperl* Message-ID: <2zQpf.10959$CL.3922@trnddc04>   Alex Daniels wrote: O > "ggl.20.jjpon@spamgourmetDOT-SEE-OH-EM" <ggl.20.jjpon@spamgourmet.com> wrote  J > in message news:1135031951.915544.256350@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... >  >>Greetings all, >>- >>I need some help with format under vmsperl. 4 >>Please look at the following sample perl program:: >> >>#!/usr/bin/perl  >>$ >>my $str = "First line" . chr(13) .@ >>         "Second line should wrap at thirty chars" . chr(13) .! >>         "Next line". chr(13) .   >>         "Last line". chr(13); >> >>format STDOUT = % >>   ^<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<~~  >>$str >>.  >> >>write; >>G >>On Activestate perl v5.8.7 (running on Windows XP) I get the expected 
 >>outputt: >>   First line  >>   Second line should wrap at  >>   thirty characters >>   Next line >>   Last line >>: >>But on VMS perl v5.6.1, it gives me insufficient output: >>   First line  >>   Second line should wrap at  >>   thirty characters >>   Next line >>< >>The VMS platform is OpenVMS v7.3-2 on an Alphaserver DS10. >>1 >>Can somebody please try it and confirm the bug. 2 >>Maybe even provide a work around or fix to this? >> >>Thanks in advance, >> >>Juna >> >  > H > It does not replicate for me, with the latest version of VMS and Perl. > & > $ write sys$output f$gets("version") > V8.2$ > $ prod show hist *perl*/vers=5.8-6R > ----------------------------------- ----------- ----------- --------------------K > PRODUCT                             KIT TYPE    OPERATION   DATE AND TIME R > ----------------------------------- ----------- ----------- --------------------J > CPQ AXPVMS PERL V5.8-6              Full LP     Install     20-NOV-2005 
 > 04:32:38R > ----------------------------------- ----------- ----------- -------------------- >  > 1 item found
 > $ perl a.pl  >     First line  >     Second line should wrap at >     thirty chars >     Next line  >     Last line  > $  > M > I suggest you upgrade, at least your version of Perl, although with V7.3-2  G > going into PVS in around 6 months I'd be looking to upgrade that too.  >  > Alex     V7.3-2/Perl V5.6-1  A I'm also missing the last line.  So it's not just something weird  about the OP's system.       --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Dec 2005 13:28:54 +01006 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)  Subject: FTP Client with Socks ?, Message-ID: <43a80716$1@news.langstoeger.at>  D Do you have a suggestion for a working FTP client on VMS which has a: socks proxy support (and optionally SSH/SSL, REGET, ...) ?  F Neither TCPIP/UCX, TCPware nor HGFTP seem to fulfill such a request...  ? OTOH, I don't know how to upload with LYNX to an FTP server ;-)    TIA    --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 16:10:27 GMT ( From: sdgross@att.net (Stephen Grossman)& Subject: Re: HP's strategy explained :] Message-ID: <sdgross-2012051109330001@232.cambridge-18rh16rt-19rh15rt.ma.dial-access.att.net>   B In article <1134600217.498950.61910@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>, mark_hpq@yahoo.com wrote:    > Latest news on the layoffs : >  > http://hpwfr.blogspot.com/  B Every time you buy x  instead of y, you are indirectly causing the downsizing of F companies which make X. Just think of all the lost jobs in the candle, horse and buggy,  A and typewriter companies when anti-social, unfeeling, plutocratic  consumers startingO buying light bulbs, cars and computers! And what about the makers of man-pushed P plows!! And water buckets balanced on the head!! And spears!! Mud-brick makers!!% I weep for them all. Solidarity Now!!    --  2 ==================================================9 A man of judgement, who could look both before and after. ?                                            HOMER, THE ILIAD     P --------------------------------------------------------------------------------8 Radically systematic, radical metaphysics: "Existence 2" http://home.att.net/~sdgrossP --------------------------------------------------------------------------------9 Stephen Grossman    Fairhaven, MA, USA    sdgross@att.net         ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 17:46:09 GMT ( From: Charles <ckraft@SPAMTRAP.west.net>& Subject: Re: HP's strategy explained :8 Message-ID: <aqggq1pqsq082p4dfj6n2b2tvi6ghrv0v6@4ax.com>  D On Tue, 20 Dec 2005 16:10:27 GMT, sdgross@att.net (Stephen Grossman) wrote:  C >In article <1134600217.498950.61910@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,  >mark_hpq@yahoo.com wrote: >  >> Latest news on the layoffs :  >>   >> http://hpwfr.blogspot.com/  > C >Every time you buy x  instead of y, you are indirectly causing the  >downsizing of  G >companies which make X. Just think of all the lost jobs in the candle,  >horse and buggy, B >and typewriter companies when anti-social, unfeeling, plutocratic >consumers starting P >buying light bulbs, cars and computers! And what about the makers of man-pushedQ >plows!! And water buckets balanced on the head!! And spears!! Mud-brick makers!! & >I weep for them all. Solidarity Now!!    * I think you got your "X" and "Y" mixed up.   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Dec 2005 05:00:16 -0800# From: "H Vlems" <hvlems@freenet.de> ) Subject: Re: Licenses MOD_UNITS question. B Message-ID: <1135083616.091331.25840@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   JF,   E possibly the system was configured as a routing node (mc ncp sho exec D char) or has multiple circuits in its ncp database. Other than that,G try $ SHO LIC/CHARGE and modify the PAK accordingly. Note that DVNETEND , is an E license (system integrated products)   Hans   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 12:44:20 GMT 5 From: rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger) ) Subject: Re: Licenses MOD_UNITS question. L Message-ID: <rdeininger-2012050744210001@user-uinj42g.dialup.mindspring.com>  5 In article <43A70720.A5CA3680@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei % <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:   B >On my new 4000-6000, I tried to load my original (real) licenses. >  >Many are MOD_UNITS.   >  > # >C was at 50 units, with MOD_UNITS.  > < >Si I figured I could simply do a LICENCE MODIFY C/UNITS=300 > I >The command worked. But LICENSE LOAD C yields an error message saying it  >isn't enough units. > $ >What exactly does MOD_UNITS allow ? > G >If I do LICENCE LIST/FULL C, it still shows the original 50 with a new $ >line below "Modified Units" at 300. > E >I am curious as to why this isn't working. (I can take the hobbyyist  >licence if all elase fails).   G This is approximate; I don't think I could describe the exact algorithm  without looking at the code...  H In a cluster, EACH node needs to see that there are enough license units9 to satisfy the requirements of EVERY node in the cluster.   G If node A has already loaded its license for a product, and then node B E tries to load a license for the same product, node B will want to see I enough units for BOTH nodes.  This can lead to LICENSE LOAD failures that & depend on the boot order of the nodes.  > If both nodes are using the same license database file (highlyG recommended!), then you can just register a PAK for each node, with the B correct number of units for that node, and everything will work asG expected.  It won't matter what order the nodes boot and load licenses.   H On the other hand, if you have separate license databases for each node,/ you'll usually have to do one of the following: E 1. register the PAKs for both (all) nodes in both (all) databases, or E 2. register one node's PAKs in each database, and use MOD_UNIT (where H applicable) to increase each PAK to the sum of the units required by all the nodes in the cluster.   ; IIRC, for NO_SHARE PAKs you don't need to worry about this.   ! So my first questions for JF are: D 1. Do you have a single license database file for the whole cluster?I 2. Is logical name LMF$LICENSE defined on each node to point to the file? = 3. Is LMF$LICENSE defined early in startup (SYLOGICALS.COM) ? I 4. Is the disk containing LMF$LICENSE mounted and available on each node?    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 07:48:41 -0500 ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> ) Subject: Re: Licenses MOD_UNITS question. 9 Message-ID: <D4Tpf.2089$%N1.223028@news20.bellglobal.com>   ; "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message  & news:43A758E9.2A361174@teksavvy.com... > Tom Linden wrote: K >> > Now, I have to figure out why the DVNETEND at 0 units isn't enough for  >> > that node.  >> >> Try 4800  > B > Actually LICENSE LOAD DVNETEND works fine. It is @STARTNET whichJ > complains about a missing licence just after having defined the circuit. > : > NCP LIST EXEC CHAR shows it is defined as nonrouting IV. >  >  > E > Is there a way to put the LMF into some debug mode to find out what & > license DECNET is expecting to see ?  M Side note: I used to run "DECnet Phase IV" routing software on one of  3 VAX  E machines in our computer room (all non-Cluster). We moved all of our  M applications from VAX to Alpha one night but had forgotten to purchase a new  K DECnet-IV routing licence for the single Alpha node in question. It was at  L this time that someone remembered the multiple abandoned NAS licenses (from L smaller VAX machines) laying in a drawer.Up to this time I didn't know some  of the following facts:   L 1) some licences issued for VAX will (optionally) also work with Alpha (you ' need to see ALPHA in the OPTIONS field) @ 2) combined NAS licenses can be used to get your network startedI 3) in my case, it "seemed" like DECnet looked for a combination of units  J from multiple licence products including both NAS and DECNET. If I recall H correctly, my DECnet wouldn't start up with only DECnet or NAS licenses C loaded separately, but worked OK with both product licences loaded.   
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.8 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html      ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 08:24:21 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> ) Subject: Re: Licenses MOD_UNITS question. + Message-ID: <43A805FE.2458F29@teksavvy.com>    Robert Deininger wrote: # > So my first questions for JF are: F > 1. Do you have a single license database file for the whole cluster?  D Nop. And on the node, the license database file is used only on thatF node. At the moment (this will change this afternoon :-) each node hasH its own system disk. The only thing which is shared is the queue manager
 database.   G (eventually, I will make a lot more shared). But during the transition, F I need to have some nodes survive the loss of the "main" node which is being changed).   K > 2. Is logical name LMF$LICENSE defined on each node to point to the file?   B Nop. Each nodes' LMF$LICENSE points to its own database on its own
 system disk.    G So in this case, is it correct to state that license management on Node H A is totally independant of whatever the other nodes have or are using ?  H Question: For licenses which do not have a /INCLUDE=node in it, is there9 any limitation when that physical node changes nodename ?   G That system disk went from VELO (microvax II) to the 4000's disk, where = I changed the nodename to VELO2 and later changed it to VELO.     ( VMS/LMF Charge Information for node VELO0 This is a VAX 4000-600A, hardware model type 456F Type: A, Units Required: 60     (VAX/VMS Capacity or OpenVMS Unlimited or Base)4 Type: B, * Not Permitted *      (VAX/VMS F&A Server)9 Type: C, Units Required: 100    (VAX/VMS Concurrent User) 5 Type: D, * Not Permitted *      (VAX/VMS Workstation) D Type: E, Units Required: 230    (VAX/VMS System Integrated Products)6 Type: F, Units Required: 300    (VAX Layered Products)* Type: G, * Not Permitted *      (Reserved)8 Type: H, * Not Permitted *      (Alpha Layered Products)2 Type: I, Units Required: 300    (Layered Products)      Issuer:                      DEC  Authorization:                 Product Name:                C !  Producer:                    DEC    Units:                       50!  Modified Units:              300 !  Version:                     0.0 $  Release Date:                (none)$  PAK Termination Date:        (none)2  Availability:                F (Layered Products)  Activity:                    0 '  Options:                     MOD_UNITS 
  Hardware ID:     Revision Level:              9 $  Status:                      Active$  Command:                     MODIFY$  Modified by user:            SYSTEM5  Modified on:                 20-DEC-2005 08:14:46.45      $ license mod C/units=300  $ license load C, %LICENSE-I-UNLOADED, DEC C has been unloaded/ %LICENSE-W-NOLOAD, license was not loaded for C B -LICENSE-F-EXCEEDED, attempted usage exceeds active license limits     $ license mod C/units=350  $ license load C? %LICENSE-I-LOADED, DEC C was successfully loaded with 350 units        ------------   Now, for DECNET:    Issuer:                      DEC  Authorization:                 &  Product Name:                DVNETEND!  Producer:                    DEC   Units:                       0 !  Version:                     0.0 )  Release Date:                 1-DEC-1990 $  PAK Termination Date:        (none)<  Availability:                E (System Integrated Products)  Activity:                    0 '  Options:                     MOD_UNITS 
  Hardware ID:     Revision Level:              1 $  Status:                      Active&  Command:                     REGISTER%  Modified by user:            1DIWBWC 5  Modified on:                 25-MAR-1990 16:28:40.34      $ license load DVNETEND D %LICENSE-I-LOADED, DEC DVNETEND was successfully loaded with 0 units   $ mc ncp set exec state shut $ @sys$manager:startnet , %SYSGEN-E-NOUNLOAD, driver is not unloadable% %SYSGEN-F-DEVACTIVE, device is active & %RUN-F-CREPRC, process creation failed! -SYSTEM-F-DUPLNAM, duplicate name B %DCL-I-SUPERSEDE, previous value of MOM$SYSTEM has been supersededK %DCL-I-SUPERSEDE, previous value of MOM$SYSTEM_NOSOFTID has been superseded I %DCL-I-SUPERSEDE, previous value of MOM$SYSTEM_SOFTID has been superseded   %NCP-W-OPEFAI, Operation failure Circuit = ISA-0 8 %SYSTEM-F-NOLICENSE, operation requires software license) %NCP-I-NOINFO, No information in database = %RUN-S-PROC_ID, identification of created process is 2480022D     E DECNET actually starts, and you can do in-node DECNET operations, but - nothing inbound or outbound from other nodes.   G If the 0 units were not good, wouldn't this show up in the LICENSE LOAD F DVNETEND ? Or does the application also check the number of units when: it asks LMF if it is allowed to run on that node or not ?   E This worked fine on my all mighty venerable microvax II which says it  needs 230 units for E licenses.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 08:40:43 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> ) Subject: Re: Licenses MOD_UNITS question. , Message-ID: <43A809D3.8E35219D@teksavvy.com>   H Vlems wrote:G > possibly the system was configured as a routing node (mc ncp sho exec 6 > char) or has multiple circuits in its ncp database.      NCP>list known circuit: Known Circuit Permanent Summary as of 20-DEC-2005 08:25:05    Circuit          State    ISA-0             on   NCP>list known line 7 Known Line Permanent Summary as of 20-DEC-2005 08:25:09     Line             State    ISA-0             on     NCP>list exec char    9 Node Permanent Characteristics as of 20-DEC-2005 08:25:54    Executor node = 1.7 (VELO)  ! Management version       = V4.0.0 ( Type                     = nonrouting IV Maximum address          = 1023     G Note that during transition, there was more than one circuit, since the G database included the circuit name of the old Microvax II node ( QNA-0) G was active the first time I rebooted the 4000 with the MVII's software. B I then used [NETCONFIG to tell me what the circuit shoudl be and I? manually added the circuit and line and removed the QNA-0 ones.    ------------------------------    Date: 20 Dec 2005 09:35:13 -0800' From: "tadamsmar" <tadamsmar@yahoo.com> / Subject: Re: Moving directories of files to dos B Message-ID: <1135100113.645322.75270@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>  E I do that with the class.  The class files on that web site came from  VMS.  G But I want to have an alternative DOS location to *maintain* the app is 
 necessary.  A The VMS system is no longer directly on the internet.  There is a : non-pass-thru server that connects.  You have to ftp stuff- to that server and the ftp it off the server.    ------------------------------    Date: 20 Dec 2005 09:52:21 -0800' From: "tadamsmar" <tadamsmar@yahoo.com> / Subject: Re: Moving directories of files to dos C Message-ID: <1135101140.997851.281240@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    Dave Froble wrote: > tadamsmar wrote: > > Bob Koehler wrote: > > q > >>In article <1134963458.237511.107100@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "tadamsmar" <tadamsmar@yahoo.com> writes:  > >>L > >>>I want to move some directories that are used for java development from@ > >>>a Alpha VMS system to a DOS/Windows system.  What is a goodF > >>>way to do that?  I there a good cross-platform zip/unzip program? > >>: > >>   My condolences.  ZIP works fine.  Watch out for -a. > >  > > K > > I'm not leaving VMS.   I just need some flexibility in maintaining this  > > Java application.   I J > > have a pretty short window (hours or at most a day or two) for loading
 > > data into I > > the app every March.  Look at the app and you will see why the window 
 > > is short:  > >  > > www.poologic.com > >  > > H > >>>I want to move the .java files and various ascii data files read byH > >>>the dos programs.  I will have to convert a few .com files to .bat. > >>>  > >  > >  > G > If you have network connectivity, what's wrong with FTP.  Some of the J > better products will automatically detect text vs binary.  Not much of aH > problem in any case.  Set the mode for each type of file and just copyI > them.  FTPing VMS .COM files to windows .BAT files could be done in the  > FTP command.  @ I have used it.  The mget on some dos boxes make you acknowledgeA each file which is a hassle and hard to automate.  I do have some @ automated scripts that just say "Y" over and over again too many> times.  This hack works for my class and data transfers, but I/ want to move the whole development environment.   F There may be better ftps,  but I have to get a second party to upgrade2 the software on some of these Windows/DOS systems.  F To get from the VMS box to my home computer, I have to ftp three times and I F have a number of directories to transfer, and I might run out of space on my rr server space.G If I package a directory in a zip file, I can ftp it off the VMS system  to a system with> an internet connection, and then I can just mail it to my home	 computer.    >  > --6 > David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04506 > Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596@ > DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com > 170 Grimplin Road  > Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 09:16:40 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> $ Subject: Passive node in a cluster ?, Message-ID: <43A8123E.31295310@teksavvy.com>  
 Just an idea:   H It would be nice to have a node in a cluster which would NOT freeze uponG loss of quorum. (consider a node that monitors the cluster, disk space, / who has what disks mounted in the cluster etc).   C If that node had 0 votes, its own system disk, and would only mount H cluster disks in a read only mode, could this cause problems in cases of cluster partitioning ?    A Why am I bringing this up ? I was using one node's serial port to G monitor the OPA0: of another node. But when quorum was lost, I could no E longer send command/read text from that OPA0 because 6the workstation C was also frozen. Having a node which woudln't freeze would be nice.   B (yes, I know, make that node outside of the cluster, but there areK advantages to being inside the cluster in terms of cluster management etc).    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 09:53:29 -0500 - From: William Webb <william.w.webb@gmail.com> ( Subject: Re: Passive node in a cluster ?I Message-ID: <8660a3a10512200653x64262125uf990dd6b19e8e98e@mail.gmail.com>   ; On 12/20/05, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:  > Just an idea:  > J > It would be nice to have a node in a cluster which would NOT freeze uponI > loss of quorum. (consider a node that monitors the cluster, disk space, 1 > who has what disks mounted in the cluster etc).  > E > If that node had 0 votes, its own system disk, and would only mount J > cluster disks in a read only mode, could this cause problems in cases of > cluster partitioning ? >  > C > Why am I bringing this up ? I was using one node's serial port to I > monitor the OPA0: of another node. But when quorum was lost, I could no G > longer send command/read text from that OPA0 because 6the workstation E > was also frozen. Having a node which woudln't freeze would be nice.  > D > (yes, I know, make that node outside of the cluster, but there areL > advantages to being inside the cluster in terms of cluster management etc= ). >   C To paraphrase the old DEC answer to any and all performance issues:    "Buy More Nodes".    : ^ )    Joyeux No=EBl,  jf.    WWWebb   --C NOTE: This email address is only used for noncommerical VMS-related  correspondence. C All unsolicited commercial email will be deemed to be a request for 8 services pursuant to the terms and conditions located at# http://bellsouthpwp.net/w/e/webbww/    ------------------------------    Date: 20 Dec 2005 07:28:25 -0800 From: mckinneyj@saic.com( Subject: Re: Passive node in a cluster ?B Message-ID: <1135092505.736968.76050@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>  4 > Having a node which woudln't freeze would be nice.   > ..., but there areM > advantages to being inside the cluster in terms of cluster management etc).   D Seems that perhaps AMDS would fit your bill - doesn't have to be "inF the cluster" but does permit access (including when conventional means have are "frozen").   4 http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/availman/   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Dec 2005 10:31:05 -0800$ From: "Ed Wilts" <ewilts@ewilts.org>( Subject: Re: Passive node in a cluster ?B Message-ID: <1135103465.268541.95180@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   JF Mezei wrote:  > Just an idea:    And a bad one at that...  J > It would be nice to have a node in a cluster which would NOT freeze uponI > loss of quorum. (consider a node that monitors the cluster, disk space, 1 > who has what disks mounted in the cluster etc).  > E > If that node had 0 votes, its own system disk, and would only mount J > cluster disks in a read only mode, could this cause problems in cases of > cluster partitioning ?  D Of course it could.  If the cluster partitions, you could be readingG old data off the cluster disks.  You could be making very bad decisions C based on garbage data. You could be attempting to master locks that " another node has already mastered.  C > Why am I bringing this up ? I was using one node's serial port to $ > monitor the OPA0: of another node.  D Hence we always have cluster console systems outside of the cluster.  D > (yes, I know, make that node outside of the cluster, but there areM > advantages to being inside the cluster in terms of cluster management etc).   G But far more disadvantages than advantages. There is cluster monitoring F and there is cluster management.  The two aren't the same.  Manage the4 cluster from one system but monitor it from another.  @ The simplest approach is to use a quorum disk that gives you theD deciding vote and give your monitoring node 0 votes.  Alternatively,G give yourself a vote and then you and one of the production nodes could E be up and you'd still have quorum. You'd only lose quorum if you lost 7 both production nodes in which case you're dead anyway.   	    .../Ed    ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 11:36:15 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)N Subject: Re: PHONE error - Invalid specification of node or person. Try again.$ Message-ID: <do8qbf$19a$1@online.de>  3 In article <$LwUL1uRUXkB@eisner.encompasserve.org>, 0 Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:   y > In article <do7brj$927$1@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: 7 > > In article <CFJ+MEiDP$C7@eisner.encompasserve.org>, B > > koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:  > > I > >> In article <do0rgj$ril$2@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de 7 > > (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes:   > > P > >> > On a related note, when will PHONE run over TCPIP?  MONITOR can run over 2 > >> > TCPIP if there is no DECnet; why not PHONE? > >>  F > >>    The usual solution is to use talk, which already runs over IP. > >>  ) > >>    Why solve the same problem twice?  > > - > > Because PHONE is an integral part of VMS.  > B > So is DECnet Phase V, which will run over TCP/IP (of any flavor)( > allowing the use of PHONE over TCP/IP.  I I disagree.  DECnet, if not always, at least for a long time has been an  2 optional product.  PHONE is automatically there.     ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 05:44:15 -0600 % From: Dan Foster <usenet@evilphb.org> N Subject: Re: PHONE error - Invalid specification of node or person. Try again.5 Message-ID: <slrndqfrkf.40u.usenet@zappy.catbert.org>   v In article <do8qbf$19a$1@online.de>, Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply <helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de> wrote:5 > In article <$LwUL1uRUXkB@eisner.encompasserve.org>, 2 > Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:  > 8 >> > In article <CFJ+MEiDP$C7@eisner.encompasserve.org>,C >> > koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:   >> >  G >> >>    The usual solution is to use talk, which already runs over IP.  >> >> * >> >>    Why solve the same problem twice? >> >  . >> > Because PHONE is an integral part of VMS. >>  C >> So is DECnet Phase V, which will run over TCP/IP (of any flavor) ) >> allowing the use of PHONE over TCP/IP.  > K > I disagree.  DECnet, if not always, at least for a long time has been an  4 > optional product.  PHONE is automatically there.    H That's true. I suspect that ultimately it's a 'business case driver' for6 HP to figure out where it stands in the priority list.  D PHONE, at one time, was a heavily used feature when the OpenVMS user/ base was substantially larger than it is today.   F It is still useful, but I suspect that it would perhaps be more usefulC to devote the time elsewhere, unless you really do have quite a few  customers screaming for it. :-)   : I would classify this as a 'nice to have' feature at best.  F A workaround does already exist -- one could install DECnet Phase V ifE that functionality was really required. (As previously noted; even if 7 it's an optional component, it's still a valid option.)    -Dan   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Dec 2005 06:03:50 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) N Subject: Re: PHONE error - Invalid specification of node or person. Try again.3 Message-ID: <Qv1Z8G0txN7$@eisner.encompasserve.org>   w In article <do8qbf$19a$1@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: 5 > In article <$LwUL1uRUXkB@eisner.encompasserve.org>, 2 > Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:  > z >> In article <do7brj$927$1@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes:8 >> > In article <CFJ+MEiDP$C7@eisner.encompasserve.org>,C >> > koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:   >> >  J >> >> In article <do0rgj$ril$2@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de8 >> > (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes:  >> >  Q >> >> > On a related note, when will PHONE run over TCPIP?  MONITOR can run over  3 >> >> > TCPIP if there is no DECnet; why not PHONE?  >> >> G >> >>    The usual solution is to use talk, which already runs over IP.  >> >> * >> >>    Why solve the same problem twice? >> >  . >> > Because PHONE is an integral part of VMS. >>  C >> So is DECnet Phase V, which will run over TCP/IP (of any flavor) ) >> allowing the use of PHONE over TCP/IP.  > K > I disagree.  DECnet, if not always, at least for a long time has been an  4 > optional product.  PHONE is automatically there.    > At least on Alpha, installation of DECnet Plus is the default.* Installation of PHONE is also the default:  ' $ SEARCH SYS$UPDATE:VMSKITBLD.DAT PHONE m "Phone Utility",                                                        SET=C,  CLASS=UTIL-G,   ACTION=PROMPT  !       UTIL-G: Phone Utility R [SYSEXE]PHONE.EXE,                              SET=C,  CLASS=UTIL-G,   SIZE=00115^ [SYSHLP]PHONEHELP.HLB,                          SET=C,  CLASS=UTIL-G,   SIZE=00031,     COND=8 $   6 Either of those can be avoided by not taking defaults.   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Dec 2005 06:05:41 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) N Subject: Re: PHONE error - Invalid specification of node or person. Try again.3 Message-ID: <xagc4WN4gZEj@eisner.encompasserve.org>   w In article <do8qf4$19a$2@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: > > In article <11qf6a35639cf20@corp.supernews.com>, Dave Froble  > <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:  > J >> PHONE has limited usefulness.  Unless an application has a mailbox set J >> up to intercept PHONE, and process the message within the application, J >> you either get a user's screen screwed up, or you block incoming PHONE , >> calls.  Yes, at times it has been useful. >>  L >> Why do you want a TCPIP transport?  If you appriciate the integral parts D >> of VMS, then use DECnet, one of the best of those integral parts. > D > It would be nice to be able to PHONE between different nodes of a I > cluster.  Within a cluster, there is otherwise little need for DECnet,  G > and since the world is now TCPIP (I'm talking from the context of my  K > hobbyist cluster at home), it seems like overkill to install DECnet just  ( > so PHONE will work within the cluster.  J It would be nice of HTTP would work within a cluster without using TCP/IP.  F But it would be needless duplication of programming and support effort to make HTTP work over DECnet.   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 11:38:12 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)N Subject: Re: PHONE error - Invalid specification of node or person. Try again.$ Message-ID: <do8qf4$19a$2@online.de>  < In article <11qf6a35639cf20@corp.supernews.com>, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:   I > PHONE has limited usefulness.  Unless an application has a mailbox set  I > up to intercept PHONE, and process the message within the application,  I > you either get a user's screen screwed up, or you block incoming PHONE  + > calls.  Yes, at times it has been useful.  > K > Why do you want a TCPIP transport?  If you appriciate the integral parts  C > of VMS, then use DECnet, one of the best of those integral parts.   B It would be nice to be able to PHONE between different nodes of a G cluster.  Within a cluster, there is otherwise little need for DECnet,  E and since the world is now TCPIP (I'm talking from the context of my  I hobbyist cluster at home), it seems like overkill to install DECnet just  & so PHONE will work within the cluster.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 07:27:46 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> N Subject: Re: PHONE error - Invalid specification of node or person. Try again., Message-ID: <43A7F8BF.A5F29C02@teksavvy.com>  / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: J > I disagree.  DECnet, if not always, at least for a long time has been an2 > optional product.  PHONE is automatically there.    H Actually, PHONE was not always automatically there. If you recall, PHONEF was added to ALPHA-VMS after one large university for deaf people madeC VMS management realise that PHONE was a critical part of VMS and it D needed to be ported to Alpha also. This was just a port and I do not1 think that phone was actually updated since then.   E Starting at VMS 5.0, DECNET was standard. (MicroVMS 4.6/7 didn't come F with DECNET). It was later that it became a separate product (would it$ be in the 7.0 time frame ? or 6.0 ?)  F However, except for the MicroVMS aberration, wasn't decnet pretty much standard beforehand ?    ------------------------------    Date: 20 Dec 2005 07:16:22 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) N Subject: Re: PHONE error - Invalid specification of node or person. Try again.3 Message-ID: <TnASGdY8Irpt@eisner.encompasserve.org>   w In article <do7brj$927$1@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes:  > + > Because PHONE is an integral part of VMS.       But an IP stack is not.   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Dec 2005 07:52:29 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) N Subject: Re: PHONE error - Invalid specification of node or person. Try again.3 Message-ID: <4UMXUhJqpZIn@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ] In article <slrndqfrkf.40u.usenet@zappy.catbert.org>, Dan Foster <usenet@evilphb.org> writes:  > F > PHONE, at one time, was a heavily used feature when the OpenVMS user1 > base was substantially larger than it is today.  >   E    PHONE was also a feature removed from the standard VMS install for F    good reason at one time (you could optionally install it).  Due to ?    customer feedback it was put back into the standard install.   ?    Hard to justify extending something you tried to get rid of.    ------------------------------    Date: 20 Dec 2005 01:30:17 -0800& From: "Bart Zorn" <bartzorn@yahoo.com>  Subject: Re: shadowing questionsC Message-ID: <1135071017.828359.121480@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   K >> > OK.  So I need at least one ALPHA in the cluster at all times to avoid ' >> > full copies for planned dismounts.   G >> Yes, but you should also make sure that the DISMOUNT is done on that F >> Alpha system, because otherwise you will not have a minicopy bitmapB >> either. A subsequent MOUNT   can be done on any cluster member.  H >As long as it is an ALPHA, I believe.  The DISMOUNT has to be done fromC >an ALPHA (that was always clear) and from one which doesn't itself I >reboot before the MOUNT is done (that was my new question).  As far as I H >can tell, it is possible that the node which does MOUNT does not alwaysI >handle the copy itself; it could be picked up by another node---but both E >the node doing the MOUNT and the node picking up the copy have to be ' >ALPHA (or Itanium; they can't be VAX).   D I cannot confirm or deny that; I only tried it with two Alpha's. ButF because I saw that the Aplha with the bitmap takes up the mini copy, IE assumed that it did not matter who mounts the disk in the shadow set.    Regards,   Bart   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 01:58:06 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> 9 Subject: Some people are willing to support their product 0 Message-ID: <11qfaoia6t9gd59@corp.supernews.com>  H Some readers may be aware of my strong feelings about getting publicity G for VMS by means of a "security challenge".  Someone in VMS management  > does not agree with me.  Maybe they should read the following:  ) http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=28442    ----------- I However, if such problem does exist, it should be repeatable. Therefore,  G just to make sure, StarForce decided to have a worldwide contest among  * users of StarForce protected applications.E Anyone who can reproduce and demonstrate the mentioned above problem  9 with CD/DVD drive in our office will receive $3000.00 US.  -----------   D Not everyone is afraid to put up some bucks to support their claims.   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 08:43:09 -0500 - From: William Webb <william.w.webb@gmail.com> = Subject: Re: Some people are willing to support their product I Message-ID: <8660a3a10512200543o5483f4c3xb330799bae9ce3ba@mail.gmail.com>   5 On 12/20/05, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote: I > Some readers may be aware of my strong feelings about getting publicity H > for VMS by means of a "security challenge".  Someone in VMS management@ > does not agree with me.  Maybe they should read the following: > - > http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=3D28442  > 
 > ----------- J > However, if such problem does exist, it should be repeatable. Therefore,H > just to make sure, StarForce decided to have a worldwide contest among, > users of StarForce protected applications.F > Anyone who can reproduce and demonstrate the mentioned above problem; > with CD/DVD drive in our office will receive $3000.00 US. 
 > -----------  > F > Not everyone is afraid to put up some bucks to support their claims. >  > --6 > David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04506 > Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596@ > DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com > 170 Grimplin Road  > Vanderbilt, PA  15486  >   E Found a 2002 link that went from me reporting on the Itanium roadshow > to a mention of VMS at DEFCON to Nic Clews suggesting a system> permanently connected to the Net for hacking contest purposes:  L http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.vms/msg/434ac3e393f2d3dd?dmode=3Dsou= rce   / A few posts later, I mentioned a $10,000 prize.   L http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.vms/browse_frm/thread/851be9d3421692=$ 64?tvc=3D1&q=3DVMS+advertising+prize  ' Comments about iPod, Volkswagen follow.    WWWebb   --C NOTE: This email address is only used for noncommerical VMS-related  correspondence. C All unsolicited commercial email will be deemed to be a request for 8 services pursuant to the terms and conditions located at# http://bellsouthpwp.net/w/e/webbww/    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 07:21:49 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> * Subject: Re: Update on my migration... :-(, Message-ID: <43A7F75B.F2798303@teksavvy.com>   Dave Froble wrote:J > > And in a real life environment, one  might be able to plan such a moveT > > on paper really well, but there are many unforeseeen glitches that cause delays. > E > Which is why you test the move before touching production machines.     E It is fairly hard to truly test the move beforehand unless you have a F truly identical test environment with the same number of machines etc.  G And I could not foresee for instance that one serial port would jam up, G causing me to lose much time because I could no longer access the OPA0:  of one machine.   F This is more a question of better planning. In my head, my 3100 had toE always be UP to run the web server and email, so updating ist startup F procedures wasn't such a big priority during the fluctuating period, IG would have updated it once the move of the other machines was done so I C would only need to update it once. But another glitch with the 4000 ( required a premature reboot of the 3100.  B Another aspect: SET CLUSTER/EXPECTED doesn't work properly. It hasE limitations on how low you can set the votes. And one cannot increase F the number of votes a node has without rebooting. This is bad when youE are transitioning a cluster from one setup to another setup since you 1 want to dynamically be able to move votes around.   G It was cool to see someone come in via FTP while I was making all those F changed though :-) (that was before things went south and I was forced+ to reboot the node I had meant to stay up.)   G In the end, a learning experience. Stuff I took for granted didn't work  as I had expected.   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Dec 2005 14:31:32 -07001 From: nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett) B Subject: Re: using SYS$ACM to authenticate arbitrary windows user?, Message-ID: <3NANGUftX2fx@malvm9.mala.bc.ca>  c In article <5CSs07McGrJq@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: b > In article <LyPYyRl3Xajj@malvm9.mala.bc.ca>, nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett) writes: > G >> %ACME-E-NOEXTAUTH, principal name cannot be authenticated externally  >>  0 >> Does anyone have an example of authenticating4 >> against a "raw" domain\user without a VMS mapping/ >> (or hints on how to make this work)? Is this  >> even possible?  > D > Reasoning from first principles, which UAF record would you expectB > to be the source of process quota information for such a login ?  D   Obviously I wouldn't - I am thinking of "authentication" in a moreF general sense. In this particular case I'm thinking of the possibilityD of tying it into the OSU webserver so that I could authorize certain@ web services for users who have a windows account but don't haveG ( or need ) a VMS account. I would be maintaining my own "authorization > database" of which services each windows user was entitled to.B If that can't be done I can create a VMS account for each user andE flag it for external authentication - but in many cases they'll never B use the VMS account for anything other than authenticating against these web services.   D   I suppose that's the broader question: is SYS$ACM intended to be aD general "authentication" service or just a fancier way of processing VMS logins?    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.707 ************************