1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 21 Dec 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 708       Contents: Re: Another Backup suggestion  Re: Another Backup suggestion  Re: Another Backup suggestion  Re: Another Backup suggestion  Re: Another Backup suggestion  Re: Another Backup suggestion  Re: Database access from COBOL Re: Database access from COBOL Re: Database access from COBOL Re: Database access from COBOL Re: Database access from COBOL Re: Database access from COBOL) Re: Deleting alias files (blocks deleted) ) Re: Deleting alias files (blocks deleted) ) Re: Deleting alias files (blocks deleted) ) Re: Deleting alias files (blocks deleted) ) Re: Deleting alias files (blocks deleted) ) Re: Deleting alias files (blocks deleted) ) Re: Deleting alias files (blocks deleted) ) Re: Deleting alias files (blocks deleted) ) Re: Deleting alias files (blocks deleted) ) Re: Deleting alias files (blocks deleted)  Re: extrenal cache battery Re: Jon Andruszkiewicz  Re: Licenses MOD_UNITS question.  Re: Licenses MOD_UNITS question.  Re: Licenses MOD_UNITS question.  Re: Licenses MOD_UNITS question.  Re: Licenses MOD_UNITS question.  Re: Licenses MOD_UNITS question.P Re: OT - GETSYI (was:Re: PHONE error - Invalid specification of node or person. P Re: OT - GETSYI (was:Re: PHONE error - Invalid specification of node or person. 6 Re: OT: Humor: Best Windows Fix story I've ever heard. Re: Passive node in a cluster ? E Re: PHONE error - Invalid specification of node or person. Try again. E Re: PHONE error - Invalid specification of node or person. Try again.  Which disk for system disk Re: Which disk for system disk Re: Which disk for system disk  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 20:23:58 +0100 & From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@decus.ch>& Subject: Re: Another Backup suggestion, Message-ID: <40r416F1bks42U1@individual.net>    Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER wrote:h > In article <43a7ff58$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>, "Guy Peleg" <guy.peleg@remove_this_header@hp.com> writes: > L >>Would it help if I'll modify the message indicating the verification phase9 >>started to include date and time? Something similar to:  >>1 >>Starting verification pass on 20-DEC-2005 07:00  >  >  > I vote for YES >    I vote for YES too.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 18:12:52 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> & Subject: Re: Another Backup suggestion0 Message-ID: <11qh3s68tmpdt59@corp.supernews.com>   JF Mezei wrote:  > Guy Peleg wrote: > L >>Would it help if I'll modify the message indicating the verification phase9 >>started to include date and time? Something similar to:  >>1 >>Starting verification pass on 20-DEC-2005 07:00  >  > H > It would be nice if all messages (except individual file messgaes fromI > /LOG were prefixed with something, and then the date and then the date.  >  > eg:  > F > %%%20-DEC-2005 05:45:11 Please mount volume 2, volume label BACKUP2 0 > %%%20-DEC-2005 07:00:15 Volume BACKUP2 Mounted4 > %%%20-DEC-2005 07:00:15 Starting verification pass >  > I > This way, in a BACKUP/LOG, you could do a SEARCH file "%%%" and get all H > the relevant messages. And having the time ahead means that the recordB > is easier to parse with a fixed length header, time and ended by > variable length text.    Excellant suggestions.   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 19:38:00 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>& Subject: Re: Another Backup suggestion+ Message-ID: <43A8B1F8.5741A797@comcast.net>    Guy Peleg wrote: > 1 > "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> wrote in message ? > news:1135009159.323397.127380@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...  > >  > > Albrecht Schlosser wrote:  > > > Phillip Helbig wrote: F > > > > In article <11nund.9b.ln@news.hus-soft.de>, Albrecht Schlosser# > > > > <ajs856@tiscali.de> writes:  > > > >  > > > > @ > > > >>>Last week I added a new qualifier - /PROGRESS_REPORT=n.G > > > >>>The new qualifier instructs BACKUP to write progress report to H > > > >>>SYS$OUTPUT (which may be a log file) every n seconds.  We writeM > > > >>>the new CTRL-T message to the log file (data saved/restored, current > > > > >>>file, rate and estimated completion time) prefixed by# > > > >>>%BACKUP-I-PROGRESS_REPORT,  > > > >>M > > > >>Fine, but I'm missing some sort of time stamp, at least with the line E > > > >>"... starting verification pass" (or similar). Sometimes it's J > > > >>interesting to know how long it took to write the saveset and when@ > > > >>backup started verification (and backup date recording). > > > >  > > > >  > > > > $ SET PREFIX > > > >  > > > M > > > Nice, didn't know that :-) , but this would only show the completion of  > > > the backup command.  > > >  > > > Albrecht > > J > > Just to be more clear, and to second this request, SET PREFIX will notH > > show you when the verification and backup passes start, or any other$ > > BACKUP messages for that matter. > >  > L > Would it help if I'll modify the message indicating the verification phase9 > started to include date and time? Something similar to:  > 1 > Starting verification pass on 20-DEC-2005 07:00   
 (Raises hand)    Another "Yes!" vote here!    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 21:41:51 -0500 ( From: Wayne Sewell <wayne@tachysoft.com>& Subject: Re: Another Backup suggestion/ Message-ID: <00A4E936.A695E514.3@tachysoft.com>   2 >X-MX-Warning:   Warning -- Invalid "From" header.8 >From: "Guy Peleg" <guy.peleg@remove_this_header@hp.com> >X-Newsgroups: comp.os.vms' >Subject: Re: Another Backup suggestion & >Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 14:55:50 +0200       > K >Would it help if I'll modify the message indicating the verification phase 8 >started to include date and time? Something similar to: > 0 >Starting verification pass on 20-DEC-2005 07:00 >   9 Don't forget the recording pass message.  Same situation. O =============================================================================== N Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738   wayne@tachysoft.com; http://www.tachysoft.com/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html    O =============================================================================== P Jake Blues:"You traded the Caddy for a microphone? ...... Okay, I can buy that."   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 21:56:19 -0500 ( From: Wayne Sewell <wayne@tachysoft.com>& Subject: Re: Another Backup suggestion0 Message-ID: <00A4E938.AC227077.11@tachysoft.com>   >From: "R Boyd" <bob@hax.com>  >X-Newsgroups: comp.os.vms' >Subject: Re: Another Backup suggestion ! >Date: 20 Dec 2005 09:22:34 -0800 ' >Organization: http://groups.google.com     8 >How about a standard prefix like %BACKUP-I-<identifier> >  >Backup already writes: ; >%BACKUP-I-STARTRECORD, starting backup date recording pass H >I'd like to be able to have the timestamp added to this message and all% >the other messages logged by BACKUP.  > G >This could be of tremendous value for a number of reasons.  One reason G >is that when an error occurs, the amount of time from the start of the H >backup operation to the time of the error may have some bearing on what >course of action is taken.  > G >I'd also like to see BACKUP log a message at the very beginning of the G >operation to flag that it actually started doing something rather than * >waiting on image activation or something. >   H Not to push tapesys again or anything, but it gives you this already, at beginning and end.    " $ RUN/NODEBUG TAPESYS_SYSTEM:vmsbuX %VMSBU-I-HISTVOL, setting history volume to DLT016       and relative volume number to 1. -SYSTEM-S-NORMAL, normal successful completionc %VMSBU-I-BACKSTART, backup initiated via BACKUP$START (in BACKUPSHR API) at 18-DEC-2005 23:07:36.53 [ %SYSBAK-I-FINISHED, finished reel DLT016 on drive _HARDY$MKB600: at 18-DEC-2005 23:24:22.32 2 %SYSBAK-I-HSTBUFFS, 1 history block buffer(s) used: %BACKUP-I-STARTRECORD, starting backup date recording passW %VMSBU-I-BACKEND, actual backup (in BACKUPSHR API) completed at 18-DEC-2005 23:33:13.99     O Note that the regular vms backup STARTRECORD message is used, so if guy changes G that to add a timestamp, it will be picked up by tapesys automatically.   M Of course, tapesys already announces the time stamp of the record pass on the  console, just not in the log.     N That said, if people want the phase messages timestamped, I may do this with aI tapesys message as well.  That way you can have the capability on earlier  versions of vms too.  :-)    Wayne O =============================================================================== N Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738   wayne@tachysoft.com; http://www.tachysoft.com/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html    O =============================================================================== P Jake Blues:"You traded the Caddy for a microphone? ...... Okay, I can buy that."   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 07:09:35 +0200 7 From: "Guy Peleg" <guy.peleg@remove_this_header@hp.com> & Subject: Re: Another Backup suggestion* Message-ID: <43a8e392@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message& news:43A81E27.592CDC67@teksavvy.com... > Guy Peleg wrote:H > > Would it help if I'll modify the message indicating the verification phase ; > > started to include date and time? Something similar to:  > > 3 > > Starting verification pass on 20-DEC-2005 07:00  > H > It would be nice if all messages (except individual file messgaes fromI > /LOG were prefixed with something, and then the date and then the date.  >  > eg:  > E > %%%20-DEC-2005 05:45:11 Please mount volume 2, volume label BACKUP2 0 > %%%20-DEC-2005 07:00:15 Volume BACKUP2 Mounted4 > %%%20-DEC-2005 07:00:15 Starting verification pass >  > I > This way, in a BACKUP/LOG, you could do a SEARCH file "%%%" and get all H > the relevant messages. And having the time ahead means that the recordB > is easier to parse with a fixed length header, time and ended by > variable length text.    Okay, I heard you guys......  # Looks like I have more work now ;-)    I will add it to V8.3 (not FT)   Guy    ------------------------------    Date: 20 Dec 2005 12:45:45 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) ' Subject: Re: Database access from COBOL 3 Message-ID: <ezg9Xg7aF02a@eisner.encompasserve.org>   k In article <Xns9732757DB3D09see2go4me@216.196.97.131>, "-Andy-" <see2go4me@spamdelicious.yahoo.com> writes:  >>  9 >>    The first school to mandate students bring personal 9 >>    computers was Steven's Tech, in Hoboken.  IIRC they   >>    specified IBM compatable.  > @ > How long ago was that? Clarkson University in Northern NY has ; > been requiring that students purchase computers since at  ? > least the mid-80's (I knew somebody who went there back then  ; > who had to buy a school mandated Zenith Z100, and I have  ? > brother just finishing up there this spring who had to buy a   > computer.)      1978    ------------------------------   Date: 20 Dec 2005 19:25:23 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)' Subject: Re: Database access from COBOL , Message-ID: <40r452F1c236sU1@individual.net>  0 In article <11qf3as5cpeeg38@corp.supernews.com>,* 	Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes: > Bill Gunshannon wrote:3 >> In article <11qdvc66hh3jh92@corp.supernews.com>, - >> 	Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:  >>  K >>>I've read where a PC is expected to be purchased by the student at some  , >>>schools.  Don't know how that worked out. >>   >>  L >> Schools have often worked out agreements with companies that allowed themJ >> to offer really good deals on computers but the only school I even knewH >> that mandated every student buying a computer was West Point.  HardlyI >> your traditional school (they mandate a lot of other things that other F >> schools could never get away with, too).  But then, rather than theK >> student paying for his education, the student is actually paid to attend > >> so making them "buy" a computer was somewhat of a misnomer. >>   >>  J >>>I thought we were discussing the students using a workstation that you H >>>provide?  I only suggested that the student, as part of the learning ( >>>experience, could get the licenses.   >>   >>  G >> One, they are not here to learn how to deal with stupid bureaucracy.  > I > Since when is learning to acquire and install something for a computer   > bureaucracy?    I Since it has no academic value at all.  It's a trade school task at best. = And, since it is a licensing issue and not a technical issue.   ' >               For college students?     A Like I said, it's a trade school task, not a college course task.   F >                                     They jave to do plenty of other E > things.  Research for papers and such.  Not much difference to me.    @ Last sentence sums it up. Don't take this the wrong way, but you? have no idea what the non-student side of college education is. C Neither did HP which is why the Edu program (which we have to learn A to live with because it isn't going to get any better!) is such a D bad fit for the job.  Just look at one factor and it becomes obviousC how little they understood the problem.  All the Edu PAKs expire on B 31 August.  When do you think the majority of Colleges start theirE semester?  Usually, the last week of August sometimes, but not often, D right after Labor Day.  Nothing like stopping all machines the firstD week of school, a systems admins busiest time of the whole semester!B Why couldn't they have made it in the middle of the summer when itF would have little if any impact on students or professors and when theC sys admin is more likely to have free time to devote to the task of ? reloading licenses and making sure everything is still working?   8 > These are college students we're talking about, right?  F Yes, not trade school students.  Contrary to popular belief (includingF that held by many students when they first arrive) College is not justF a hi-level Vo/Tech School.  If you want job training you go to a trade9 school.  If you want an education you go to a University.    >  >> Two, when they screw it up  > I > Ok, a simple cookbook reciepe, written out and tested one time by you,  K > and thereafter the students in a particular class, you pick it, have the  ; > assignment of acquiring and loading the yearly license.     ; One.  I don't pick their assignments, their professor does. D Two.  There is hardly enough time now to cover the stuff they reallyD need to learn without trying to teach them how to do the monkey work too. Three.  It's not their job!!  D >                                                         These are . > college students we're talking about, right?  I Yes.  And that is why it's not their job.  See the word student up there?    > - >> and can't do their assignments what do you 7 >> think the administration would have to say about it? F >> Three, If the University owns the workstation, who do you think the4 >> administration is going to want maintaining them?A >> Should I go on with all the other things wrong with this idea.  >>   >>  J >>>                                     I'd expect the computer and media H >>>to be already available.  At least, that is where the discussion was E >>>when you said you'd accept a truckload of VAXstation 4000 systems.  >>> J >>>The missing piece is how each student uses the individual license on a K >>>computer used by many.  I'm wondering whether each computer can get one  @ >>>license for the year, and multiple people can use any of the J >>>workstations, using a cluster login.  That seems to be what you'd want. >>   >>  I >> And now you are getting into what people who do this for a living have : >> been saying was wrong with the program from the start.  > K > I don't buy it, not after how I understand the latest education license.    G How do you understand it?  Hint, it bears much less resemnblence to the F Hobbyist program than many here think.  What we wanted was a re-wordedF Hobbyist agreement.  What we got was a lawyers nightmare and a license7 no college professor is ever going to sign his name to.   G >   Heck, it even seems to allow the administration to use VMS without  E > paying.  At least, that's how I read it.  Read quickly, could have   > missed some fine print.   E Must have missed a whole bunch.  It doesn't technically allow for use D in labs, I can't see how you could have drawn the conclusion that it allowed administrative use.    > ) > How much easier do you want it to be?     E Just want it to be legally usable, without a whole bunch of grey area D up top the interpretation of some lawyer.  See, we have lawyers too.E And I have to run all this stuff by them before I can use it.  And if D they think it is ambiguous or dubious, they just say "No".  Now, in G this case, no one beyond me (and I have little if any pull) is going to C fight to keep VMS here, so things have to be administratively easy.   H >                                       HP sends out people to hold the  > students hands?  Your hand?   1 No, I usually come here for my hand-holding.  :-)    > F > Just how do you provide the various flavors of Unix to the students?  I Not sure what that is supposed to mean?  Don't run flavors.  The majority D of our servers (99%) run FreeBSD.  No license. No lawyers.  No PAKs.I And then we have the Microsoft products.  A bunch (and growing number) of L servers and labs full of user machines.  We joined the MS Education AllianceI (or whatever it's actually called, I don't administer it!) and get pretty I much everything but Office covered under blanket licensing.  Heck, we can H even give copies to the students along with legitimate licenses they canI take with them when they leave.  So, which licensing scheem do you see as G the real loser in this collection?  And which OS needs the most help to 2 just keep it around?  Do you see the problem here?   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 20 Dec 2005 19:31:05 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)' Subject: Re: Database access from COBOL , Message-ID: <40r4foF1c236sU2@individual.net>  0 In article <11qf3etdbllqb59@corp.supernews.com>,* 	Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes: > Main, Kerry wrote: >>>-----Original Message----- 2 >>>From: Dave Froble [mailto:davef@tsoft-inc.com] " >>>Sent: December 19, 2005 1:38 PM >>>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com* >>>Subject: Re: Database access from COBOL >>>  >>>Bill Gunshannon wrote:  >>> 4 >>>>In article <11qbp869ffr60fc@corp.supernews.com>,. >>>>	Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes: >>>> >>>>$ >>>>>johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com wrote: >>>>>  >>>>>  >>>>>>Bob Koehler wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>C >>>>>>> Use of Hobbyist license for educational institutions is not F >>>>>>> permitted, unless there have been changes since Ilast read it. >>>>>>> ? >>>>>>> Educational institutions are offered discount programs.  >>>>>> >>>>>>G >>>>>>That's still correct, however there is a free Educational License 
 >>>>>>Program  >>>>>>5 >>>>>>http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvmsedu/index.html  >>>>>>! >>>>>>Copied from the first page:  >>>>>>H >>>>>>"The OpenVMS Educational License Program is patterned after the HP= >>>>>>OpenVMS Hobbyist Program. It is offered in response to   >>>  >>>your requests >>> I >>>>>>that we make HP OpenVMS available to educational institutions at no  >>>>>>cost.  >>>>>>: >>>>>>All types of educational institutions worldwide are  >>>  >>>eligible. All you >>> F >>>>>>have to do is request an access code over the Web, register yourA >>>>>>school, and once registered, anyone at your school can use   >>> 
 >>>the access  >>> < >>>>>>code to get a product authorization key (PAK) through  >>>  >>>e-mail. The base  >>> F >>>>>>license for HP OpenVMS is included, and you may request over 100A >>>>>>layered product PAKs. The licenses are good from August to   >>> 
 >>>August and  >>> E >>>>>>must be renewed annually. Anyone associated with an educational C >>>>>>institution-students, faculty or administrators-may use these < >>>>>>licenses. The pages listed below will get you started. >>>>> I >>>>>I don't know what could be much better.  It's available.  It's free.  >>>> >>>>? >>>>Well, I won't go into all this again as we did it to death   >>>  >>>some time ago,  >>> @ >>>>but it was obviously written by someone with absolutlely no  >>>  >>>knowledge or  >>>  >>>>experience in education.   >>>> >>>> >>>>E >>>>>>Note: All existing educational programs, such as the Campuswide ? >>>>>>Software License Grant (CSLG) program, remain in place. "  >>>>>>I >>>>>>However, for what Bill wanted I think it would be an administrative > >>>>>>nightmare.  For each system you have to request one PAK  >>>  >>>for each piece  >>> A >>>>>>of software you wish to use.  And they expire every August   >>>  >>>31st.  Which  >>> @ >>>>>>means you would be requesting somewhere around 10-15 PAKs  >>> 
 >>>per system  >>> A >>>>>>per year.  For a 100 workstation lab or class that would be  >>>>>>unimaginable.  >>>>> ? >>>>>I seem to recall that when I was in school, students were   >>>  >>>informed what   >>> @ >>>>>texts, materials, and such would be required for a class.  > >>>>>                                                          >>>  >>>It was up tot   >>> @ >>>>>he student to acquire the textbooks, materials, and such.   >>>  >>>I don't see   >>> A >>>>>anything different here.  The student is informed of what's   >>> 
 >>>required,   >>> ? >>>>>including written directions.  College students should be   >>>  >>>capable of  >>> + >>>>>acquiring the required class material.  >>>> >>>>7 >>>>True, up to a point.  You can't tell them that all   >>>  >>>programming assignments >>> 5 >>>>will be done using VMS Pascal and the student is   >>>  >>>responsible for buying, >>> = >>>>licensing, installing and administering VMS on the Alpha   >>>  >>>which the student >>> ? >>>>is also expected to purchase.  You could try, but I'll bet   >>>  >>>the school that >>> / >>>>tried it wouldn't be in business very long.  >>>> >>>>bill >>>> >>> ; >>>I've read where a PC is expected to be purchased by the   >>>student at some  , >>>schools.  Don't know how that worked out. >>> A >>>I thought we were discussing the students using a workstation   >>>that you H >>>provide?  I only suggested that the student, as part of the learning @ >>>experience, could get the licenses.  I'd expect the computer 
 >>>and media  H >>>to be already available.  At least, that is where the discussion was E >>>when you said you'd accept a truckload of VAXstation 4000 systems.  >>> = >>>The missing piece is how each student uses the individual   >>>license on a ? >>>computer used by many.  I'm wondering whether each computer   >>>can get one  @ >>>license for the year, and multiple people can use any of the ? >>>workstations, using a cluster login.  That seems to be what   >>>you'd want. >>>  >>   >>   >>  B >> Fwiw, lets not forget that where larger numbers of licenses are> >> required, I am sure some custom arrangements could be made.  J Maybe, if money were involved, but you forget which OS we're talking aboutL here.  The University doesn't even see enough value in covering our machinesG with CSLG anymore.  These machines stay as long as it costs nothing and 7 doesn't keep me from doing what they really pay me for.    > G > S**t!  Now you ARE going to hold his hand.  You'll show up to do the   > installation also?  J You too seem to have forgotten which OS we're talking about.  For everyoneI beyond me, here, (and I am sure at many other educational institutions as G well) the easiest solution to this dilemna is to shove the VMS machines K out next to the dumpster.  I'm not asking for people to do the work for me, H I am just asking them to untie my hands and not make me wear a blindfold too.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 14:12:31 -0500  From: "Jilly" <jilly@hp.com>' Subject: Re: Database access from COBOL , Message-ID: <43a857a0$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  I "Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote in message  - news:ezg9Xg7aF02a@eisner.encompasserve.org... B > In article <Xns9732757DB3D09see2go4me@216.196.97.131>, "-Andy-" - > <see2go4me@spamdelicious.yahoo.com> writes:  >>> : >>>    The first school to mandate students bring personal: >>>    computers was Steven's Tech, in Hoboken.  IIRC they  >>>    specified IBM compatable. >>@ >> How long ago was that? Clarkson University in Northern NY has; >> been requiring that students purchase computers since at ? >> least the mid-80's (I knew somebody who went there back then ; >> who had to buy a school mandated Zenith Z100, and I have ? >> brother just finishing up there this spring who had to buy a 
 >> computer.)  >  >   1978 >   L Yep I looked at Stevens Tech in 1979 after I had left the USAFA and clearly  remember their PC requirement.   Jilly    ------------------------------   Date: 20 Dec 2005 19:42:21 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)' Subject: Re: Database access from COBOL , Message-ID: <40r54sF1c236sU3@individual.net>  3 In article <ezg9Xg7aF02a@eisner.encompasserve.org>, > 	koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:m > In article <Xns9732757DB3D09see2go4me@216.196.97.131>, "-Andy-" <see2go4me@spamdelicious.yahoo.com> writes:  >>> : >>>    The first school to mandate students bring personal: >>>    computers was Steven's Tech, in Hoboken.  IIRC they:                                                  ^^^^^^^^^! >>>    specified IBM compatable.          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  >>  A >> How long ago was that? Clarkson University in Northern NY has  < >> been requiring that students purchase computers since at @ >> least the mid-80's (I knew somebody who went there back then < >> who had to buy a school mandated Zenith Z100, and I have @ >> brother just finishing up there this spring who had to buy a 
 >> computer.)  > 	 >    1978 	      ^^^^   $ Now that had to be a daunting task!!  H       "Although IBM's launch of the Personal Computer (IBM 5150) in 19818        set the industry standard for personal computing"?       [http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/pc/pc_1.html]    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 20 Dec 2005 19:43:38 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)' Subject: Re: Database access from COBOL , Message-ID: <40r57aF1c236sU4@individual.net>  , In article <43a857a0$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>, 	"Jilly" <jilly@hp.com> writes:  > K > "Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote in message  / > news:ezg9Xg7aF02a@eisner.encompasserve.org... C >> In article <Xns9732757DB3D09see2go4me@216.196.97.131>, "-Andy-"  . >> <see2go4me@spamdelicious.yahoo.com> writes: >>>>; >>>>    The first school to mandate students bring personal ; >>>>    computers was Steven's Tech, in Hoboken.  IIRC they ! >>>>    specified IBM compatable.  >>> A >>> How long ago was that? Clarkson University in Northern NY has < >>> been requiring that students purchase computers since at@ >>> least the mid-80's (I knew somebody who went there back then< >>> who had to buy a school mandated Zenith Z100, and I have@ >>> brother just finishing up there this spring who had to buy a >>> computer.) >>	 >>   1978  >> > N > Yep I looked at Stevens Tech in 1979 after I had left the USAFA and clearly   > remember their PC requirement. >   E While better than 1978, even 1979 would have proven rather difficult.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 13:53:30 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 2 Subject: Re: Deleting alias files (blocks deleted), Message-ID: <43A8530D.B795BB39@teksavvy.com>   Albrecht Schlosser wrote: J > what about all the files in [SYS0.SYSEXE] or (e.g.) some subdirectory ofJ > this: There is only one real file, but the directory SYSEXE is an alias!  C Actually, this doesn't matter. It is the directory file which is an  alias.    H So when you delete [SYS0.SYSCOMMON.SYSHLP]HELPLIB.HLB , you are not onlyH freeing the blocks for the .HLP file, but you are also removing a record from the .DIR file.   E And when DELETE is accessing [SYS0.SYSCOMMON]SYSHLP.DIR to remove the 8 record, it is actually accessing [VMS$COMMON]SYSHLP.DIR.   DIR/FILE confirms this.    ------------------------------    Date: 20 Dec 2005 15:09:39 -0800$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>2 Subject: Re: Deleting alias files (blocks deleted)C Message-ID: <1135120179.307067.119080@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    JF Mezei wrote:  > AEF wrote:J > > But on my VAX systems, deleting any alias leaves the file alone as youC > > can see above. Deleting the primary entry leaves dangling alias  > > entries. > H > On my VAX, the behaviour seems to match your opinion, but goes against& > whate everyone else has been saying.  E "Seems"? It's not "seems"; it "does". Why is everyone so reluctant to  acknowledge that I was right?   I > And I am tryuly sorry if I didn't remember that obscure SET FILE/REMOVE H > command which is so seldom used that one can't be expected to rememberG > 100% of the time. You seem, coming from a MAC background, alias files I > have always been treated safely with the same "delete" procedure (throw E > in the trash) as the master file without ever having to worry about J > deleting the alias actually deleting the real file. I think even windowsH > has that intelligent behaviour and frankly, I can't understand why VMS > couldn't either.  D Actually, on second thought, DELETE also works. It removes the aliasF and leaves the primary in place. When it says 3 blocks deleted or someC other positive number the number of blocks that will be reported by F DIRECTORY will be that much less. DELETE is a little more dangerous inC that if what you think is an alias is in fact the primary directory > entry, your file is toast and any aliases for that file end up "dangling".   A I am not familar with "aliases" on the Mac, but I don't know what > aliases you refer to on Windows. Are you talking about WindowsG "shortcut icons"? Those are not file aliases. They are files that point C to the "primary" file. The parallel in VMS would be a DCL file that  contains      $ @blah.com  A which is not an alias. Please clarify what you mean by "aliases".    > D > if DFU DIR/ALIAS is able to spot an alias file, why can't DELETE ?  F DELETE does do that and only removes alias entries. The primary entry,1 the file header, and the file data remain intact.   I > Also, if I have an alias CHOOCOLATE.DAT pointing to VANILLA.DAT, when I I > issue the DELETE CHOCOLATE.DAT, woudln't DETELE then lookup the file ID H > in INDEXF.SYS and in that record, see that the filename is VANILLA.DATH > and then know that CHOCOLATE.DAT is just an alias which means that theI > only operation needed is to remove the CHOCOLATE.DAT from the directory  > file containing it ?   It does.  < > Note: the MAC has had this capability since the mid 1980s.  @ Are these MAC "aliases" like Windows shortcuts, or true aliases?D Aliases on VMS are not a user-friendly feature. That's why I thoughtF they were introduced in an ad hoc manner for cluster system disks. ButC another poster tells me that VMS aliases pre-date clusters. OK. But C they are not user-friendly. The manual even warns you to be careful G with SET FILE/ENTER and SET FILE/REMOVE (or it warns you about at least E one of them). Mainly, there is nothing in DIRECTORY output that tells E you a file is an alias. You have to scan all directories on a disk to C do that, so I think that's asking a bit much of basic file-handling G commands like DELETE. Think how long a simple DELETE command would take F to execute if it had to scan all .DIR files on the disk! I suppose youB could create an alias database for each disk, but that hasn't beenD done. Aliases as they exist today are certainly not meant for casual use.  H > I certaintly didn't create the [000000]SYSBOOT.EXE alias. It must haveH > happened as part of some upgrade at one point in time, or perhaps as aI > result of ANA/DISK/REPAIR or whatever. I also recall that BACKUP at one B > point woudln't recreate a system disk properly, requiring systemE > managers to fiddle with some of the alias entry files (I think that I > [SYS0]SYSCOMMON.DIR was the real file and [000000]VMS$COMMON.DIR was an 1 > alias (when it should be the other way around).   D Also, I can see why you want to clean up this entry: not to clear upG disk space but to reduce the clutter of unneeded directory entries. OK.    ------------------------------    Date: 20 Dec 2005 15:17:49 -0800$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>2 Subject: Re: Deleting alias files (blocks deleted)C Message-ID: <1135120669.513737.147870@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    John Santos wrote: > Dave Froble wrote: > > AEF wrote: > >  > >> John Santos wrote:  > >> > >>> AEF wrote: > >>>  > >>>> JF Mezei wrote: > >>>> > >>
 > >> [...] > >>L > >>>>> If I deleted [000000]SYSBOOT.EXE, wouldn't ANA/DISK then report thatF > >>>>> [VMS$COMMON.SYSEXE]SYSBOOT.EXE is some rogue directory entry ? > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>J > >>>> Only if you deleted the primary entry. That would delete the actualJ > >>>> header and data of the file, leaving an orphaned alias in some .DIRK > >>>> file. ANAL/DISK would complain about that! But you deleted the alias K > >>>> and fortunately still have the primary entry along with the data and  > >>>> file header.  > >>>> > >>> H > >>> On a VAX?  Never!  As others have posted, deleting the file by any > >> > >> > >>	 > >> Yes.  > >> > >> [...] K > >> But on my VAX systems, deleting any alias leaves the file alone as you D > >> can see above. Deleting the primary entry leaves dangling alias
 > >> entries.  > >> > > L > > I don't think you're 'getting it'.  If I read what you posted correctly,J > > A.A and B.B are both files in directory [FELDMAN.DCL.A].  What's beingL > > discussed, if I understand it correctly, is having file A.A in directoryL > > [FELDMAN.DCL.A], and having another directory for the exact same file inL > > directory [FELDMAN.DCL.B] also.  Then, regardless which file you delete,I > > [FELDMAN.DCL.A]A.A or [FELDMAN.DCL.B]A.A will result in the directory L > > entry and file being deleted, and leaving a directory entry in the other* > > directory without a coresponding file.    G > Ugh!  I took the radical step of actually trying it.  It does seem to D   ^^^^__________________________________________________________^^^^  ? > work exactly as Alan says, whether the files are in different I > directories or the same directory.  (VAX V7.3 and Alpha V7.3-2 on ODS-2 	 > disks.)      Well, w EEEEXXXXXXXXCCCCCCCCCCUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUSSSSSSSSSSSSEEEEEE J MMMMMMMMEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEF for being right! Why is this such a big deal? Especially when it takes less than 5 min. to check?  F Did I commit some great crime in cov? I am often accused of wrongdoingD I didn't do. So I'm not really that upset. And it DOES, not SEEMS to do.   G When I am wrong I not only admit it (well, usually) but if I am the one G to discover that I am wrong I go thru great pains to post a correction.      Hey, sometimes I'm right!  &-)      F > I think this must be one of those new-fangled V5.5 features, becauseE > I couldn't find any mention of it in the V6.2 or V7.x Release Notes  > or New Features books.    " I was right about the fifth force!   AEF    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 18:47:55 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 2 Subject: Re: Deleting alias files (blocks deleted), Message-ID: <43A897FA.4BC33461@teksavvy.com>  
 AEF wrote:H > Did I commit some great crime in cov? I am often accused of wrongdoingF > I didn't do. So I'm not really that upset. And it DOES, not SEEMS to > do.   . When some VMS engineer speaks, people listen.   B In this case, it appears some VMS engineers need to take a peek atG DELETE.EXE source code to see if there is code to handle alias entries.    ------------------------------    Date: 20 Dec 2005 15:36:58 -0800$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>2 Subject: Re: Deleting alias files (blocks deleted)B Message-ID: <1135121818.724852.79800@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   Bob Koehler wrote:^ > In article <43A75826.C1B04A10@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > > Hoff Hoffman wrote: K > >> If some or all of the core parts of the particular OpenVMS system disk J > >> are now gone, restore from your most recent off-line BACKUP/IMAGE, or > >> reinstall OpenVMS.  > >  > > . > > That is the problem !  They are not gone ! > > _ > > DFU DIR/ALIAS said that [000000]SYSBOOT.EXE was an alias for [VMS$COMMON.SYSEXE]SYSBOOT.EXE  > >  > H >    VMS dos not normally keep SYSBOOT.EXE in [000000].  I'm begining toH >    wonder what DFU uses to determine that a file is an alias.  IIRC ifI >    both the DID and the file name in the header match the directory and 3 >    directory entry then it is the original entry.     A I think what DFU does is to first scan all directories and make a E table. Then it looks for directory entries that don't match the names F in the file headers to which they point. Those are considered aliases.  E I noticed a new oddity: If you have B.B as an alias for A.A, then SET F FILE/REMOVE A.A;!, you have only an alias left (B.B) which DFU reports@ as an alias for []A.A. But if you then DELETE B.B, delete reallyF deletes it (and it cannot be recovered with ANAL/DISK) even though theD filename in the file header doesn't match the name in the directory. (Checked on VAX/VMS 6.2)   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Dec 2005 18:09:18 -0800$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>2 Subject: Re: Deleting alias files (blocks deleted)C Message-ID: <1135130958.115954.124270@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    JF Mezei wrote:  > AEF wrote:J > > Did I commit some great crime in cov? I am often accused of wrongdoingH > > I didn't do. So I'm not really that upset. And it DOES, not SEEMS to > > do.  > / > When some VMS engineer speaks, people listen.   E I see. So you try it for yourself and see what it does, but you don't B believe your own eyes until it can be confirmed by a VMS engineer.  D > In this case, it appears some VMS engineers need to take a peek atI > DELETE.EXE source code to see if there is code to handle alias entries.   C If you try my posted examples examples you'll see that there is. It E obviously doesn't do what YOU would like it to, but that is not yours G to decide. My examples prove that DELETE knows about aliases. Learn how C aliases work; learn how DELETE works; learn how directories and the E index file work; and be sure you have a good backup in case you screw 
 something up.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 22:37:06 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 2 Subject: Re: Deleting alias files (blocks deleted), Message-ID: <43A8CDA3.70825379@teksavvy.com>   OK, one more test:  ( Create a 100k block file  DISK:[CAKE]A.A. SET FILE DISK:[CAKE]A.A/enter=DISK:[000000]B.B
 SHOW DEV DISK  DELET/LOG [000000]B.B;
 SHOW DEV DISK   H DELETE says it has deleted 100k blocks. But Show DEV does not change the! amount of free space on the disk.     
 another test:    $CREATE [CAKE]A.A; $SET FILE/REMOVE [CAKE]A.A $ANA/DISK/REPAIR    7 it does find "ANALDISK-W-LOSTHEADER file (fileid) A.A;1 2                           not found in a directory   and places it in [SYSLOST]  / One more test to corroborate what AEF has said:   3 $CREATE [CAKE]A.A  (with allocation of 100k blocks) & $SET FILE [CAKE]A.A /ENTER=[000000]B.B $SET FILE/REMOVE [CAKE]A.A $DELETE [000000]B.B   H This time, SHOW DEV DISK  does show that 100k blocks were freed with the delete command.    This is with VAX VMS 7.2    G What is intertesting in the HELP for SET FILE/NETER is that it cautions > not to create an alias in the same directory as the real file.   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Dec 2005 20:05:50 -0800< From: "Hein RMS van den Heuvel" <heinvandenheuvel@gmail.com>2 Subject: Re: Deleting alias files (blocks deleted)C Message-ID: <1135137950.084162.225790@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   / Admittedly the 'X blocks' deleted is confusing.   E Still, it is not all that hard to figure out what VMS can / cannot do  in this space.  + 1) Directory entries point to file headers. B 2) For Aliased files, multiple directory entries point to the same header. = 3) Each file header has one, and only one, directory backlink   ? If a delete is executed on a file which is an alias in an other B directory, then the system can follow that one backlink, determineE there still is a valid entry for the file in the backlinked directory E (yes thise requires and scan of that directory) and magically convert D the delete into a set file/remove operation. This is not part of theF delete utility, but part of the file system. So the deleting tool doesF not know this happened, and just reports "x blocks deleted" as always.  E If file is deleted through the name which backlinks to itself, then a G real delete is done. Without a 'link count' I'm sure you would not want C the system to then exhaustively search all other directories so see D whether there was an alias somewhere.. for every delete. So poof the# file goes, leaving orphan's behind.   @ Now if one does a $set file/remove on the directory entry in theE directory for the backlink, then this remove will blank the backlink. D Now a delete through any other alias can no longer determine whetherB there are siblings, and becomes a real delete, again leaving other alias entries as as orphans.   hope this helps, Hein.                    JF Mezei wrote:  > OK, one more test: > * > Create a 100k block file  DISK:[CAKE]A.A0 > SET FILE DISK:[CAKE]A.A/enter=DISK:[000000]B.B > SHOW DEV DISK  > DELET/LOG [000000]B.B; > SHOW DEV DISK  > J > DELETE says it has deleted 100k blocks. But Show DEV does not change the# > amount of free space on the disk.  >  >  > another test:  >  > $CREATE [CAKE]A.A; > $SET FILE/REMOVE [CAKE]A.A > $ANA/DISK/REPAIR > 9 > it does find "ANALDISK-W-LOSTHEADER file (fileid) A.A;1 4 >                           not found in a directory >  > and places it in [SYSLOST] > 1 > One more test to corroborate what AEF has said:  > 5 > $CREATE [CAKE]A.A  (with allocation of 100k blocks) ( > $SET FILE [CAKE]A.A /ENTER=[000000]B.B > $SET FILE/REMOVE [CAKE]A.A > $DELETE [000000]B.B  > J > This time, SHOW DEV DISK  does show that 100k blocks were freed with the > delete command.  >  > This is with VAX VMS 7.2 >  > I > What is intertesting in the HELP for SET FILE/NETER is that it cautions @ > not to create an alias in the same directory as the real file.   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Dec 2005 20:40:46 -0800$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>2 Subject: Re: Deleting alias files (blocks deleted)C Message-ID: <1135140046.559809.316900@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   
 AEF wrote: > Bob Koehler wrote:` > > In article <43A75826.C1B04A10@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > > > Hoff Hoffman wrote: M > > >> If some or all of the core parts of the particular OpenVMS system disk L > > >> are now gone, restore from your most recent off-line BACKUP/IMAGE, or > > >> reinstall OpenVMS.  > > >  > > > 0 > > > That is the problem !  They are not gone ! > > > a > > > DFU DIR/ALIAS said that [000000]SYSBOOT.EXE was an alias for [VMS$COMMON.SYSEXE]SYSBOOT.EXE  > > >  > > J > >    VMS dos not normally keep SYSBOOT.EXE in [000000].  I'm begining toJ > >    wonder what DFU uses to determine that a file is an alias.  IIRC ifK > >    both the DID and the file name in the header match the directory and 5 > >    directory entry then it is the original entry.  >  > C > I think what DFU does is to first scan all directories and make a G > table. Then it looks for directory entries that don't match the names H > in the file headers to which they point. Those are considered aliases. > G > I noticed a new oddity: If you have B.B as an alias for A.A, then SET H > FILE/REMOVE A.A;!, you have only an alias left (B.B) which DFU reportsB > as an alias for []A.A. But if you then DELETE B.B, delete reallyH > deletes it (and it cannot be recovered with ANAL/DISK) even though theF > filename in the file header doesn't match the name in the directory. > (Checked on VAX/VMS 6.2)  E Correction: The above works for the case in which the file is aliased F in the same directory as the primary entry, but not when the alias hasC the same name as the primary, but resides in a different directory. B Then Hein's explanation kicks in, namely, checking if the backlink4 matches the directory. If it doesn't, it's an alias!  B So you are correct. Your explanation actually covers both cases! I- assume by DID you mean the back link file id.   " I was right about the fifth force!   AEF    ------------------------------    Date: 20 Dec 2005 21:19:16 -0800$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>2 Subject: Re: Deleting alias files (blocks deleted)C Message-ID: <1135142356.055897.159610@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Hein RMS van den Heuvel wrote:1 > Admittedly the 'X blocks' deleted is confusing.  > G > Still, it is not all that hard to figure out what VMS can / cannot do  > in this space. > - > 1) Directory entries point to file headers. D > 2) For Aliased files, multiple directory entries point to the same	 > header. ? > 3) Each file header has one, and only one, directory backlink  > A > If a delete is executed on a file which is an alias in an other D > directory, then the system can follow that one backlink, determineG > there still is a valid entry for the file in the backlinked directory G > (yes thise requires and scan of that directory) and magically convert F > the delete into a set file/remove operation. This is not part of theH > delete utility, but part of the file system. So the deleting tool doesH > not know this happened, and just reports "x blocks deleted" as always.  E How can it be part of the file system? The file system actively kicks @ in to prevent DELETE from marking the file header as not in use?   > G > If file is deleted through the name which backlinks to itself, then a I > real delete is done. Without a 'link count' I'm sure you would not want E > the system to then exhaustively search all other directories so see F > whether there was an alias somewhere.. for every delete. So poof the% > file goes, leaving orphan's behind.  > B > Now if one does a $set file/remove on the directory entry in theG > directory for the backlink, then this remove will blank the backlink. F > Now a delete through any other alias can no longer determine whetherD > there are siblings, and becomes a real delete, again leaving other > alias entries as as orphans. >  > hope this helps, > Hein.  >    So, in summary:   E When deleting a file, first a check is made to see if the file is the C primary entry. This is done by checking the "back link file id" and @ "file name" in the file header. If these match the directory andC filename given to the DELETE command, it is primary and the file is E "really deleted" leaving orphan aliases if any. If it is found not to D be primary, i.e. an alias, then a search is done for the primary. IfG the primary is found, a "SET FILE/REMOVE" is done on the alias. If not,  the file is "really deleted".    [...]    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 19:44:33 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net># Subject: Re: extrenal cache battery + Message-ID: <43A8B381.91C6C260@comcast.net>   " "SanthoshfromJay@gmail.com" wrote: > I > Why an extrenal cache battery is required in HSZ70 disk array controler , > eventhough i have UPS  for the controller.  A Unless the UPS *IS* the controller, you need the cache battery to  prevent data loss, UPS or no.   E Besides, think about it: what maintains the contents of cache memory?    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Dec 2005 20:12:29 -0800< From: "Hein RMS van den Heuvel" <heinvandenheuvel@gmail.com> Subject: Re: Jon Andruszkiewicz B Message-ID: <1135138349.808687.69270@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>  B I'll send John a mail with a pointer to this topic, and your name.  ) You had seen the following article right?   ;   http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=05/12/15/5216932    Hein.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 20:01:47 GMT % From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> ) Subject: Re: Licenses MOD_UNITS question. = Message-ID: <LqZpf.44268$Zv5.3085@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net>   ; "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message  % news:43A805FE.2458F29@teksavvy.com...  > Robert Deininger wrote: $ >> So my first questions for JF are:G >> 1. Do you have a single license database file for the whole cluster?  > F > Nop. And on the node, the license database file is used only on thatH > node. At the moment (this will change this afternoon :-) each node hasJ > its own system disk. The only thing which is shared is the queue manager > database.   K If each node has it's own license database, then you have to register your  ! licenses in all of the databases.    > I > (eventually, I will make a lot more shared). But during the transition, H > I need to have some nodes survive the loss of the "main" node which is > being changed).  > L >> 2. Is logical name LMF$LICENSE defined on each node to point to the file? > D > Nop. Each nodes' LMF$LICENSE points to its own database on its own > system disk. > I > So in this case, is it correct to state that license management on Node J > A is totally independant of whatever the other nodes have or are using ?   No, it is not correct.   > J > Question: For licenses which do not have a /INCLUDE=node in it, is there; > any limitation when that physical node changes nodename ?  > I > That system disk went from VELO (microvax II) to the 4000's disk, where ? > I changed the nodename to VELO2 and later changed it to VELO.  >  > * > VMS/LMF Charge Information for node VELO2 > This is a VAX 4000-600A, hardware model type 456H > Type: A, Units Required: 60     (VAX/VMS Capacity or OpenVMS Unlimited
 > or Base)6 > Type: B, * Not Permitted *      (VAX/VMS F&A Server); > Type: C, Units Required: 100    (VAX/VMS Concurrent User) 7 > Type: D, * Not Permitted *      (VAX/VMS Workstation) F > Type: E, Units Required: 230    (VAX/VMS System Integrated Products)8 > Type: F, Units Required: 300    (VAX Layered Products), > Type: G, * Not Permitted *      (Reserved): > Type: H, * Not Permitted *      (Alpha Layered Products)4 > Type: I, Units Required: 300    (Layered Products) >  > " > Issuer:                      DEC > Authorization:  > Product Name:                C" > Producer:                    DEC! > Units:                       50 " > Modified Units:              300" > Version:                     0.0% > Release Date:                (none) % > PAK Termination Date:        (none) 3 > Availability:                F (Layered Products)   > Activity:                    0( > Options:                     MOD_UNITS > Hardware ID: >   > Revision Level:              9% > Status:                      Active % > Command:                     MODIFY % > Modified by user:            SYSTEM 6 > Modified on:                 20-DEC-2005 08:14:46.45 >  >  > $ license mod C/units=300  > $ license load C. > %LICENSE-I-UNLOADED, DEC C has been unloaded1 > %LICENSE-W-NOLOAD, license was not loaded for C D > -LICENSE-F-EXCEEDED, attempted usage exceeds active license limits >  >  > $ license mod C/units=350  > $ license load CA > %LICENSE-I-LOADED, DEC C was successfully loaded with 350 units  >  >  >  > ------------ >  > Now, for DECNET: > " > Issuer:                      DEC > Authorization:' > Product Name:                DVNETEND " > Producer:                    DEC  > Units:                       0" > Version:                     0.0* > Release Date:                 1-DEC-1990% > PAK Termination Date:        (none) = > Availability:                E (System Integrated Products)   > Activity:                    0( > Options:                     MOD_UNITS > Hardware ID: >   > Revision Level:              1% > Status:                      Active ' > Command:                     REGISTER & > Modified by user:            1DIWBWC6 > Modified on:                 25-MAR-1990 16:28:40.34 >  >  > $ license load DVNETEND F > %LICENSE-I-LOADED, DEC DVNETEND was successfully loaded with 0 units >  > $ mc ncp set exec state shut > $ @sys$manager:startnet . > %SYSGEN-E-NOUNLOAD, driver is not unloadable' > %SYSGEN-F-DEVACTIVE, device is active ( > %RUN-F-CREPRC, process creation failed# > -SYSTEM-F-DUPLNAM, duplicate name D > %DCL-I-SUPERSEDE, previous value of MOM$SYSTEM has been supersededC > %DCL-I-SUPERSEDE, previous value of MOM$SYSTEM_NOSOFTID has been   > supersededK > %DCL-I-SUPERSEDE, previous value of MOM$SYSTEM_SOFTID has been superseded " > %NCP-W-OPEFAI, Operation failure > Circuit = ISA-0 : > %SYSTEM-F-NOLICENSE, operation requires software license+ > %NCP-I-NOINFO, No information in database ? > %RUN-S-PROC_ID, identification of created process is 2480022D  >  > G > DECNET actually starts, and you can do in-node DECNET operations, but / > nothing inbound or outbound from other nodes.  > I > If the 0 units were not good, wouldn't this show up in the LICENSE LOAD H > DVNETEND ? Or does the application also check the number of units when; > it asks LMF if it is allowed to run on that node or not ?  > G > This worked fine on my all mighty venerable microvax II which says it " > needs 230 units for E licenses.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 20:09:25 GMT % From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> ) Subject: Re: Licenses MOD_UNITS question. > Message-ID: <VxZpf.44270$Zv5.34643@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net>  5 "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> wrote in message  3 news:x9Jpf.1838$%N1.189110@news20.bellglobal.com...  > = > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message  ( > news:43A758E9.2A361174@teksavvy.com... >> Tom Linden wrote:L >>> > Now, I have to figure out why the DVNETEND at 0 units isn't enough for >>> > that node. >>>  >>> Try 4800 >>C >> Actually LICENSE LOAD DVNETEND works fine. It is @STARTNET which K >> complains about a missing licence just after having defined the circuit.  >>; >> NCP LIST EXEC CHAR shows it is defined as nonrouting IV.  >> >> >>F >> Is there a way to put the LMF into some debug mode to find out what' >> license DECNET is expecting to see ?  >>I > More than a dozen years ago I was working on a project in Montreal. We  I > moved and combined a bunch of licences from some older VAXes (which we  M > were retiring) onto a new VAX-6430. At that time the "C" compiler wouldn't  H > start because of insufficient license units. The "old master" who was M > running the project just walked over to the console and used bumped up the  I > license weight by using a command similar to "$lic mod /units=4800 c".  L > Well I was shocked. He told me it was perfectly legal but would only work A > on licenses which had MOD_UNITS visible in the OPTIONS display.  > I > I never did get a good explanation of why it was legal. I just assumed  L > that maybe all the licenses with MOD_UNITS enabled added up to some value G > and that we were borrowing unused units from some grand account. Can  / > anyone at HP shed some light on this subject?   K The MOD_UNITS option is there because Digital's software license agreement  K contains some language that allows you to use a license on another machine  K if your primary machine fails.  Since your backup machine may require more  0 units than the original, you may need MOD_UNITS.  I LMF was not designed to prevent piracy, it's supposed to help the honest   people stay honest.   H It doesn't seem to work if an "old master" modifies the units and still ! thinks that it's perfectly legal.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 15:51:58 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> ) Subject: Re: Licenses MOD_UNITS question. , Message-ID: <43A86EC9.1B2A7034@teksavvy.com>    $ license mod dvnetend/units=350 $ license load dvnetend 3 %LICENSE-I-UNLOADED, DEC DVNETEND has been unloaded F %LICENSE-I-LOADED, DEC DVNETEND was successfully loaded with 350 units $ @startnet , %SYSGEN-E-NOUNLOAD, driver is not unloadable% %SYSGEN-F-DEVACTIVE, device is active & %RUN-F-CREPRC, process creation failed! -SYSTEM-F-DUPLNAM, duplicate name B %DCL-I-SUPERSEDE, previous value of MOM$SYSTEM has been supersededK %DCL-I-SUPERSEDE, previous value of MOM$SYSTEM_NOSOFTID has been superseded I %DCL-I-SUPERSEDE, previous value of MOM$SYSTEM_SOFTID has been superseded   %NCP-W-OPEFAI, Operation failure Circuit = ISA-0 8 %SYSTEM-F-NOLICENSE, operation requires software license) %NCP-I-NOINFO, No information in database & %RUN-F-CREPRC, process creation failed! -SYSTEM-F-DUPLNAM, duplicate name     B I hadn't shutdown DECNET before, so duplicate process warninsg are5 normal. But it still complains about missing license.   ; Is there a way to track what license DECNET is asking for ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 15:48:35 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> ) Subject: Re: Licenses MOD_UNITS question. , Message-ID: <43A86DFE.1A68A883@teksavvy.com>   John Vottero wrote: I > It doesn't seem to work if an "old master" modifies the units and still # > thinks that it's perfectly legal.       A Actually, it has become legal some years ago when DEC changed the E licensing from individual machines to classes of machines (workgroup, H departmental etc). So once your licenses were switched to that type, you2 could switch to any machine within the same class.  E Besides, those machines have become hobbyist. I just prefer to use my H old licences which don't expire rather than the hobbyist licences. So it4 reduces the number of updates I must make each year.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 21:20:42 -0000 @ From: "Alex Daniels" <alexNOSPAMHERETHANKSdaniels@themail.co.uk>) Subject: Re: Licenses MOD_UNITS question. 4 Message-ID: <43a8757f$0$897$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>  ; "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message  & news:43A86EC9.1B2A7034@teksavvy.com... <SNIP>: > %SYSTEM-F-NOLICENSE, operation requires software license+ > %NCP-I-NOINFO, No information in database ( > %RUN-F-CREPRC, process creation failed# > -SYSTEM-F-DUPLNAM, duplicate name  >  > D > I hadn't shutdown DECNET before, so duplicate process warninsg are7 > normal. But it still complains about missing license.  > = > Is there a way to track what license DECNET is asking for ?   I Sure, def/sys/exec LMF$DISPLAY_OPCOM_MESSAGE TRUE and somewhat obviously  
 reply/enable.    Alex     ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 18:16:13 -0500 ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> ) Subject: Re: Licenses MOD_UNITS question. 9 Message-ID: <Wg0qf.1637$1Y4.152185@news20.bellglobal.com>   1 "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> wrote in message  8 news:VxZpf.44270$Zv5.34643@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net... >  [...snip...]M > The MOD_UNITS option is there because Digital's software license agreement  M > contains some language that allows you to use a license on another machine  M > if your primary machine fails.  Since your backup machine may require more  2 > units than the original, you may need MOD_UNITS. > K > LMF was not designed to prevent piracy, it's supposed to help the honest   > people stay honest.  > J > It doesn't seem to work if an "old master" modifies the units and still # > thinks that it's perfectly legal.  > @ Thanks for this explanation. It seemed wrong and now I know why.  G p.s. HP License Police - that "old master" retired a few years back :-)   
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.9 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html     ------------------------------    Date: 20 Dec 2005 15:17:13 -0500. From: brooks@cuebid.zko.hp.nospam (Rob Brooks)Y Subject: Re: OT - GETSYI (was:Re: PHONE error - Invalid specification of node or person.  , Message-ID: <vUMIEqsoFMDD@cuebid.zko.hp.com>  5 "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> writes:  > Paul wrote . . . > K >> As to the null filling, I would guess that is down to the author of that I >> piece of code thinking that initializing the buffer to remove previous G >> "junk" not a bad idea (heavens knows how many bugs I've corrected in K >> program maintenance which were caused by failing to initialize buffers).  > M > Is this a section of VMS that was re-written in C? It's nice to have a null L > at the end of everything isn't it? printf? Is there a C person in the room@ > who can explain what function (strcpy(), memcpy()?) does what? > , >> down to the author of that  piece of code > L > If anyone would like to provide an alternative definitions then that would > be just great.  I I was curious to see what $GETDVI does, given the above rants [with which  I largely agree, by the way].   < Here's the section of code in $GETDVI that transfers data to the user's buffer . . .    EXE$DVI_MOVE_ITEM:         .JSB_ENTRY --                 INPUT   = <R4,R5,R7,R8,R10>,- -                 SCRATCH = <R0,R1,R2,R3,R4,R5> E         CMPL    R10,R4                  ; If user buffer is too small          BGEQ    10$ B         MOVL    R10,R4                  ; Move as much as will fitB 10$:    TSTL    R8                      ; Return length requested?7         BEQL    20$                     ; Branch if not C         MOVW    R4,(R8)                 ; Set size of data returned @ 20$:    MOVC5   R4,(R5),#0,R10,(R7)     ; Store item zero filled         RSB   5 Note the use of MOVC5 to zero-fill the user's buffer.   7 I suspect that $GETSYI (and $GETJPI) have similar code.    --    L Rob Brooks    VMS Engineering -- I/O Exec Group     brooks!cuebid.zko.hp.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 13:12:21 +0800 3 From: "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> Y Subject: Re: OT - GETSYI (was:Re: PHONE error - Invalid specification of node or person.  1 Message-ID: <doaob1$ns2$1@news-02.connect.com.au>    Hi Rob,   9 > I suspect that $GETSYI (and $GETJPI) have similar code.   H $getjpi (jpi$_username at least) behaves in a similar fashion. Therefore@ some may argue that the $get**i system services are all behavingK consistently (I'll put money on $getdti being completely different as usual E :-) BUT where sy$getsyi (syi$_nodename) appears to differ, is in it's F initialization of register four. Jpi$_username will pad with nulls butL *only* after first padding the documented buffer size (i.e. 12) with spaces.L So to conform to this half-arsed standard surely syi$_nodename should pad toJ 15 bytes with spaces then nulls for the rest? Why is R4 set to the trim of  SCSNODE instead of min(#15,R10)?  L Anyway, leaving all that to one side for a moment :-) can *anyone* give me a% better definition for the following:- 
 SYI$_NODENAME J Returns, as a character string, the name of the [scsnode?,decnet?,galaxy?]. node in the buffer specified in the item list.G Because this name can include up to 15 [why 15?] characters, the buffer > length field in the item descriptor should specify 15 (bytes). SYI$_SCSNODEE Returns the Galaxy instance name. [Does it really?] Supported only on I AlphaServer systems that support partitioning. [My system doesn't support  partitioning, I'm stuffed!]    Regards Richard Maher   3 PS. I'll take Merry Christmas / silly season humour   ; "Rob Brooks" <brooks@cuebid.zko.hp.nospam> wrote in message & news:vUMIEqsoFMDD@cuebid.zko.hp.com...7 > "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> writes:  > > Paul wrote . . . > > H > >> As to the null filling, I would guess that is down to the author of thatK > >> piece of code thinking that initializing the buffer to remove previous I > >> "junk" not a bad idea (heavens knows how many bugs I've corrected in C > >> program maintenance which were caused by failing to initialize 	 buffers).  > > J > > Is this a section of VMS that was re-written in C? It's nice to have a nullI > > at the end of everything isn't it? printf? Is there a C person in the  roomB > > who can explain what function (strcpy(), memcpy()?) does what? > > . > >> down to the author of that  piece of code > > H > > If anyone would like to provide an alternative definitions then that would  > > be just great. > K > I was curious to see what $GETDVI does, given the above rants [with which  > I largely agree, by the way].  > > > Here's the section of code in $GETDVI that transfers data to > the user's buffer . . .  >  > EXE$DVI_MOVE_ITEM: >         .JSB_ENTRY -/ >                 INPUT   = <R4,R5,R7,R8,R10>,- / >                 SCRATCH = <R0,R1,R2,R3,R4,R5> G >         CMPL    R10,R4                  ; If user buffer is too small  >         BGEQ    10$ D >         MOVL    R10,R4                  ; Move as much as will fitD > 10$:    TSTL    R8                      ; Return length requested?9 >         BEQL    20$                     ; Branch if not E >         MOVW    R4,(R8)                 ; Set size of data returned B > 20$:    MOVC5   R4,(R5),#0,R10,(R7)     ; Store item zero filled
 >         RSB  > 7 > Note the use of MOVC5 to zero-fill the user's buffer.  > 9 > I suspect that $GETSYI (and $GETJPI) have similar code.  >  > --   > 1 > Rob Brooks    VMS Engineering -- I/O Exec Group  brooks!cuebid.zko.hp.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 19:47:04 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>? Subject: Re: OT: Humor: Best Windows Fix story I've ever heard. + Message-ID: <43A8B418.4011C63B@comcast.net>    William Webb wrote:  > H > The tech writer who is currently underemployed as our admin was having> > home computer problems.  XP refused to let her update NortonA > Anti-Virus, and she was getting spurious "Messages from WIndows D > Registry" which strongly hinted that there was some spyware/trojan > activity going on. > H > I burned her a CD with three freeware anti-spyware products (said "use9 > all three") and three free firewalls (said "pick one").  >  > Gave her this on Friday. > # > Today she tells us the following:  > E > After three attempts to re-install OS, reboot cable modem, etc, she C > gives up in frustration and decides to go and do some work on the  > wiring in her spare bedroom. > F > She slips, blows the main fuse in the house and is without power for > twenty minutes.  > J > When she manages to get power restored, everything comes up and is fine. > Q > First time I've ever heard of somebody fixing Windows by rebooting their HOUSE.   A Well, BG, Inc. wants their "shoveware" to do things like run your 4 toaster, etc. May as well get used to it, I suppose.   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 19:24:46 GMT 3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond) ( Subject: Re: Passive node in a cluster ?0 Message-ID: <2UYpf.942$102.154@news.cpqcorp.net>  C In article <1135103465.268541.95180@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,  & "Ed Wilts" <ewilts@ewilts.org> writes:  E >                ...  If the cluster partitions, you could be reading H >old data off the cluster disks.  You could be making very bad decisionsD >based on garbage data. You could be attempting to master locks that% >another node has already mastered.    ..  I If nodes from each or two partitions access the same disk -- even if they L only read and don't write data -- it is likely that not only the consistencyH (correct data) of the file will be lost, but its integrety also (meaningL the file could become unreadable).  The term "file" refers to both RMS files and database files.   J You really do not want to circumvent the protections that OpenVMS provides0 to help you avoid partitioned clusters.  Really!   --  J       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 19:40:24 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>N Subject: Re: PHONE error - Invalid specification of node or person. Try again.+ Message-ID: <43A8B288.D0B40AC4@comcast.net>    Larry Kilgallen wrote: > y > In article <do7brj$927$1@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: 7 > > In article <CFJ+MEiDP$C7@eisner.encompasserve.org>, A > > koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:  > > I > >> In article <do0rgj$ril$2@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de 6 > > (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: > > O > >> > On a related note, when will PHONE run over TCPIP?  MONITOR can run over 2 > >> > TCPIP if there is no DECnet; why not PHONE? > >>F > >>    The usual solution is to use talk, which already runs over IP. > >>) > >>    Why solve the same problem twice?  > > - > > Because PHONE is an integral part of VMS.  >  > So is DECnet Phase V,   F Well, technically it's a SIP (System Integrated Product) and installed separately.   , > which will run over TCP/IP (of any flavor)( > allowing the use of PHONE over TCP/IP.  9 DECnet-IV will run over Multinet Point-to-point IP links.   , See the on-line Multinet doc.'s for details.   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Dec 2005 23:20:58 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) N Subject: Re: PHONE error - Invalid specification of node or person. Try again.3 Message-ID: <fRWVHp4mjzIE@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ` In article <43A8B288.D0B40AC4@comcast.net>, David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes: > Larry Kilgallen wrote: >>  z >> In article <do7brj$927$1@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes:8 >> > In article <CFJ+MEiDP$C7@eisner.encompasserve.org>,B >> > koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: >> >J >> >> In article <do0rgj$ril$2@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de7 >> > (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes:  >> >P >> >> > On a related note, when will PHONE run over TCPIP?  MONITOR can run over3 >> >> > TCPIP if there is no DECnet; why not PHONE?  >> >> G >> >>    The usual solution is to use talk, which already runs over IP.  >> >> * >> >>    Why solve the same problem twice? >> >. >> > Because PHONE is an integral part of VMS. >>   >> So is DECnet Phase V, > H > Well, technically it's a SIP (System Integrated Product) and installed
 > separately.   @ But the "technically" means "known only to those who examine the> form of the kit".   It is installed as part of the same dialog= as PHONE and defaults the same.  What image supports escaping A the default (DCL or PCSI) is immaterial to the average installer.    ------------------------------    Date: 20 Dec 2005 13:50:04 -0800  From: "Eddie" <blokey@gmail.com># Subject: Which disk for system disk C Message-ID: <1135115404.003835.189760@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   ( A quick question regarding system disks:  : If you had a machine with 2 SCSI disks (one 18GB one 70GB)' which would you use as the system disk?   D Would you put all the software on the 70GB disk, along with the user files?A or put the minimum on the system disk and use the larger disk for  applications and user files (email etc.)   
 Any ideas?   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 19:58:13 -0500 % From: BRAD <bradhamilton@comcast.net> ' Subject: Re: Which disk for system disk ( Message-ID: <43A8A8A5.50807@comcast.net>   Eddie wrote:* > A quick question regarding system disks: > < > If you had a machine with 2 SCSI disks (one 18GB one 70GB)) > which would you use as the system disk?  > F > Would you put all the software on the 70GB disk, along with the user > files?C > or put the minimum on the system disk and use the larger disk for  > applications > and user files (email etc.)  >   F Yes, I would do it that way.  I know you probably don't have one, but H the system "files" will fit nicely on a 9G disk, and even on a 4G disk, " if you didn't want to waste space.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 19:55:47 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>' Subject: Re: Which disk for system disk + Message-ID: <43A8B623.85D770FB@comcast.net>    Eddie wrote: > * > A quick question regarding system disks: > < > If you had a machine with 2 SCSI disks (one 18GB one 70GB)) > which would you use as the system disk?  > F > Would you put all the software on the 70GB disk, along with the user > files?C > or put the minimum on the system disk and use the larger disk for  > applications > and user files (email etc.)  >  > Any ideas?  F I'll add my vote for using the smaller disk for the o/s, and the other( for user files and application software.  E Strictly a personal preference because I believe it makes my job as a D SysAdmin a bit easier. One exception I do make is I frequently placeD freeware and third-party system tools in separate directories on the system disk, when possible.   G Multinet sort of forces your hand there. Print symbiont images and such H *MUST* reside in the common branch of the SYS$SYSTEM path (haven't foundH a way around that one yet, dunno if anyone ever will). Otherwise, all ofG the driver and shareable image files are in the Multinet path. The only 4 other system-wide changes are to the command tables.   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.708 ************************