1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 29 Dec 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 724       Contents:9 Re: "Double Exception from CPU 0" on Alpha 4100 DRA0 boot  Re: Another Backup suggestion  Re: Another Backup suggestion  Re: Honeypot stats/ Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march today / Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march today / Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march today / Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march today / Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march today # ISO9660 compatibility - please help ' Re: ISO9660 compatibility - please help ! Re: old EZ disks with latest VMS? ! Re: old EZ disks with latest VMS? P OT - SWB Flash browser problem? (was:Re: Windoze ends year with a major cert ...P Re: OT - SWB Flash browser problem? (was:Re: Windoze ends year with a major cert, OT: CAPS (was:Re: TLZ07/TLZ09 compatability)0 Re: OT: CAPS (was:Re: TLZ07/TLZ09 compatability)" Re: Patch release notes complete ? Re: shadowing questions  Re: SSH  Re: TLZ07/TLZ09 compatability  Re: TLZ07/TLZ09 compatability  Re: TLZ07/TLZ09 compatability  Re: TLZ07/TLZ09 compatability  Re: TLZ07/TLZ09 compatability  Re: TLZ07/TLZ09 compatability  Re: TLZ07/TLZ09 compatability  Re: TLZ07/TLZ09 compatability + Re: Windoze ends year with a major cert ... + Re: Windoze ends year with a major cert ... + Re: Windoze ends year with a major cert ...  Re: Zip question Re: Zip question  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 21:09:19 GMT  From: dittman@dittman.net B Subject: Re: "Double Exception from CPU 0" on Alpha 4100 DRA0 boot* Message-ID: <3aDsf.5695$Ff6.5099@trnddc01>  . Keith A. Lewis <klewis@omega.mitre.org> wrote:K > I have run VMS on several blue Alphaserver 4100's.  It works and is fully M > supported.  The only bad thing about them is the power supplies fail fairly K > often.  You can run with an extra so it doesn't take down the system when K > one fails.  If you decide you're going to keep this machine long-term you  > should plan for this.   I I hadn't had this experience with Alphaserver 4100 systems.  The ones I'm . around have been running for a long time, too. --   Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 14:36:30 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> & Subject: Re: Another Backup suggestion, Message-ID: <43B2E925.18BC9C71@teksavvy.com>  / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: F > Yes.  My point is, previously one could just cut and paste a commandI > from the DCL command line, including qualifiers, into HELP and it would  > just give you what you want.    F they wreckedHHHH Hchanged a lot of things in HELP between 7.2 and 7.3. I really do not know why.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 12:37:25 -0800  From: Z <Z@no.spam> & Subject: Re: Another Backup suggestion* Message-ID: <5ICsf.5972$5R3.5105@fe02.lga>   JF Mezei wrote: H > they wreckedHHHH Hchanged a lot of things in HELP between 7.2 and  > 7.3. I really do not know why.  G The whole ^H thing was kinda cute the first few million times I saw it.    Now, it's just annoying.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 23:50:13 -0500 ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca>  Subject: Re: Honeypot stats 9 Message-ID: <9WJsf.5650$l87.490579@news20.bellglobal.com>   3 "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> wrote in message  L news:FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB7738C1@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net...   >Neil, > E >While I will certainly agree with the positioning of Windows lack of F >security, one also has to consider the fact that Red Hat has releasedF >approx 285 *security* patches this year alone (not maint - security). >  >Reference: H >https://www.redhat.com/archives/enterprise-watch-list/ (click on thread  >for each month and add them up) > A >In both cases with Windows and Linux, the challenges for serious H >operations shops is not the time to download and roll-out these patches@ >(althought it is extremely resource intensive and causes rebootI >scheduling head-aches), but rather the time to test and QA these patches 6 >with the various applications that are in production. > F >Of course, a company could choose not to QA/test the patches and justD >roll them out, but then that company does not likely have a serious >production environment. > D >Btw, a recent security white paper can be found at: (good one which< >explains the inherent architecture multiple rings benefits)9 >http://h71028.www7.hp.com/ERC/downloads/4AA0-2896ENW.pdf  >  >Regards >  >Kerry Main  >Senior Consultant >HP Services Canada   > Kerry, thanks for the links; I'll pass them along to my peers.  H I hope you don't think I've become a big UNIX/LINUX fan because I still M think OpenVMS is the best operating system currently available. But like VHS  M vs. BETA (or Macintosh vs. Windows) I do not think it is a good idea for any  K company to ignore LINUX and/or Open Source software. This stuff will never  @ go away because there are just too many people involved with it.  M BTW, I commend the OpenVMS Engineering folks for doing things like GNV; this  L olive branch is starting to depolarize "some" of the IT people I deal with; " these efforts are getting noticed.   #####   H On a related note, I know of three Canadian companies who are currently I (2005-12) doing a revamp of their internal server infrastructure. In all  9 three cases various technologies are being replaced with  M Windows-Server-2003. Don't get me wrong, Windows based software is great for  F personal productivity and small desktop publishing but it is just too M vulnerable to infection by viruses, worms, and adware to be used in the back  M room. In these situations I think smart companies should be installing LINUX  H whenever they feel tempted to install any flavour Windows. The Honeypot G Project is one example of someone being proactive rather than reactive.   I So just to partially prove a point, two weeks back I downloaded Fedora 4  G from a Red Hat mirror in Canada then burned it on a single DVD. I then  L booted the DVD on my brand new ASUS-P5GD2 and the hardware probe identified H everything on my mother-board including my brand new ATI Radeon display G card. It even identified my refurbished IBM G97 color monitor (this is  L something Windows always gets wrong). The installer asked about 4 questions K then did the complete installation with a single boot where any version of  H Windows asks three times as many questions and requires two boots. Even K though I requested a minimal installation it installed Open Office, MySQL,  I Firefox, and lots of other cool stuff including a built-in firewall with  L almost every port disabled. The Fedora 4 installation was noticeably faster E than Windows-XP and I now can see why IBM has teamed up with Red Hat.   K My upgrade from Windows-2k to Windows-XP w/SP1 was not as successful. When  M finished, about a half dozen on-board drivers were missing but I was able to  K get these working with an ASUS drivers disk. The MS version of the Windows  M Firewall is present (buried?) in SP1 but is autoenabled in SP2 (I understand  = the folks at MS got this idea from the LINUX/Honeypot people)   I Comparing the two OSs over a number of days left me with the belief that  L Fedora 4 was much more responsive and much more stable than Windows-XP/SP2. L So if I were Microsoft, I'd be real worried about anything going wrong with M Windows systems at those three Canadian companies. (but how long were things  G like "adware" running on Windows boxes before we even knew about them?)    #####   J My employer maintains quite a few systems running SPARC Solaris so I down H loaded "Solaris x86" tonight from Sun and will install it on my ASUS to I determine if it feels as perky as Fedora 4. (because some people who use  L this OS all the time refer to it as Slow-air-is). But this OS has some very / die-hard fans so their must be something to it.    #####   M Everyone knows the original Macintosh had some scalability problems and they  M just couldn't expand their custom OS any further. So their only solution was  G to move to a variation of UNIX from Carnegie Mellon (which Apple calls  M Darwin) and then run Macintosh apps in separate windows as individual tasks.  L The company that once bragged about not having a COMMAND LINE PROMPT now is $ bragging that it has one. Go Figure.  
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.8 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 14:18:06 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>8 Subject: Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march today* Message-ID: <43B2F2FD.A0AE817@comcast.net>  
 AEF wrote: >  > David J Dachtera wrote:  > > AEF wrote: > > >  > > > David J Dachtera wrote:  > > > > Lurker wrote: 	 > > > > > I > > > > > "David J Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote in message / > > > > > news:439B3628.36213F03@comcast.net...  > [...] M > > > The city also planned ahead by instituting the Taylor Law. The union is  > > > out $3 million.  > > J > > If the fines levied withstand the inevitable legal challenges. The lawI > > itself will probably face a legal challenge of its own in the days to 	 > > come.  > > = > > > I guess they should have planned for that. The strikers L > > > are out a minumum of 6 days' pay -- and perhaps $25,000 each on top ofJ > > > that -- should have planned! Toussaint was held in contempt of court? > > > and nearly landed in jail. You know: should have planned!  > > J > > They did: the made choices. Difficult choices, certainly, and probablyK > > not the choices most folks would make. Then again, even PATCO knew what L > > might happen, but placed honor above the law (laws are laws, but are not( > > always the "honorable" thing to do). > > K > > > It is certainly ironic that the same law that allows the union in the M > > > first place also forbids them from striking. This law provides benefits L > > > to the transit workers, who end up with a health care plan and pensionK > > > most others in the country can only dream of, but with those benefits - > > > come restrictions and responsibilities.  > > L > > Unions cannot be legislated against - such a law would quickly be struckL > > down as unconstitutional. There is no provision in the constitution thatG > > allows for work stoppages to be banned by law; however, the Supreme I > > Court of the U.S. (the de-facto ultimate source of legislation, which = > > itself is unconstitutional) has not established this yet.  > 7 > (1) The Supreme Court is not a source of legislation.   H ...yet it *HAS* established unconstitutional legislation which is itselfF unconstitutional - the The U.S. Supreme Court is not so empowered, yetA it repeatedly does so, and the legislative and executive branches " repeatedly validate them for this.   > Did you justA > write that the Supreme Court itself is unconstitutional? Please 
 > clarify.   See the previous paragraph.   G > (2) Where in the Constitution does it say you can't make laws banning I > unions? Anyway, it is the EXISTENCE of a law that allows the union, not F > the other way around. Also, you don't have to ban all unions just to > decerity one union.   H Laws cannot "allow" a union anymore than laws can disallow a union. It's  violation of the Bill of Rights.  F > (3) My point is how it was ironic that the SAME LAW allows the union > but forbids it from striking.   C Laws cannot "allow" a union anymore than laws can disallow a union.  Therefore, the point is moot.   6 > (4) So what happened with PATCO? They all got fired!  C ...which was itself an illegal and impeachable act (endangering the G safety of the U.S. population-at-large by crippling air traffic control : through the discharge of employees exercising their legal, constitutional rights).    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 15:03:31 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>8 Subject: Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march today* Message-ID: <43B2FDA3.9C9238E@comcast.net>  
 AEF wrote: >  > David J Dachtera wrote:  > > AEF wrote: > > >  > > > David J Dachtera wrote:  > > > > Lurker wrote: 	 > > > > > I > > > > > "David J Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote in message / > > > > > news:439B3628.36213F03@comcast.net... 	 > > > > > I > > > > > I know I've promised to quit this thread but I couldn't resist. 	 > > > > > D > > > > > So how do you feel about that David after the NY transportB > > > > > strike? And the fact that NY Times summed up the popular8 > > > > > feelings by the terse but explicit "You Rats!" > > > > 0 > > > > Ever heard the expression "sour grapes"? > > > . > > > So you're actually upset about it? Cool! > > 7 > > O.k., show me where such a conclusion is justified.   ' I notice you balked at that. Telling...    > > " > > > (Hey, when you give a short, > >  > > ...non- L > > > cryptic response, don't complain that you were misunderstood or say "I > > > didn't say that!"  > > ; > > It's *NOT* cryptic, it is *EXTREMELY* straight forward!  >  > Prove it.   G See the original statement. (It's quoted above, so no excuses this time ! for not doing your own homework).    > > K > > ...and once again, as is obvious to even the most casual observer, *NO* L > > I DID *NOT* SAY THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > C > prove it. oR just explain it more clearly. Who's going after what 	 > grapes?   3 See reports in the media under the headline quoted.    > >  > > > >  > > > > > And maybe, just C > > > > > maybe, you have happened to be in that city and trying to  > > > > > catch a bus? > > > > M > > > > Nope - knew better, and planned ahead! (novel concept, I realize, but  > > > > hey ...) > > > K > > > Uh-huh. Plan ahead. Can you tell me how the fireman who was biking to J > > > work because of the strike and was nearly killed by a (private) bus,H > > > and who is now in the hospital in critical condition with numerous/ > > > broken bones could have planned for that?  > > >  > > > Can you tell me... > > > M > > > how the sick and disabled could have planned to do without their health  > > > aids?  > > > K > > > how cancer patients on chemo and radiation therapy could have planned K > > > to get to their place of therapy? You'd have them sleep on the couch,  > > > no doubt.  > > E > > Contact their care-givers (the only ones qualified to answer such  > > questions).  > H > I'm sure they did and they were still screwed. Well, I don't know thatF > for a fact, but you're strangely silent about the fireman who nearlyG > got killed and is in critical condition in the hospital with numerous = > broken bones after being hit by a bus while biking to work.   B What do you propose as a panacea to prevent any and all accidents?   > > G > > > how the city could plan for losing tens of millions of dollars in  > > > taxes? > >  > > Which taxes are those? > H > Taxes that would have been collected by businesses that were otherwiseH > closed, from shoppers who were otherwise walking or sitting in trafficE > for hours to and from work, from Christmas shoppers easily spending G > hundreds of dollars each, from meals that most workers get from local  > restaurants, ....   C Still seems steep a estimate for only three days losses. By such an F estimate, the taxes collected in New York City alone would approximate/ (exceed?) the income of the federal government.   9 > What does it matter. You'll always side with the union.   + You'll always side against them. Stalemate.    > According to4 > you it seems impossible for the union to do wrong.  @ According to you, it seems impossible for the union to do right.
 Stalemate.   > >   > > Certainly not transit taxes. >  > There are no transit taxes.   B BZZZZZZZZZZTTT!!! Wrong answer! Part of every fare includes state, county and municipal taxes.   + > In fact, NYC gives, IIRC from the mayor's I > own words, $500,000,000/year to the MTA. And that comes from taxes paid @ > for by NYC residents whether they use MTA mass transit or not.  - http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?subsidy   E (Hint: The taxes collected are, in all probablitity, pre-requisite to  the receipt of said subsidy.)    > > F > > Even in Tokyo or Beijing, the daily ridership is not sufficient toI > > produce tax income for public transit amounting to seven figures over " > > the course of only three days. > G > If people can't get to work, they can't open businesses and therefore G > lose a lot of money.  that money gets taxed, and the city loses that. E > And if customers don't show because their home or stuck in traffic, E > they can't buy anthing. Many businesses that did manage to open had $ > next to zero customers. See above. >  > > M > > > how the city could have "planned" around spending 10 million for police ( > > > overtime (might have been 10M/day) > > K > > How many hundreds of thousands of police officers are employed by NYPD? J > > any figure short of six digits would require 10+ hours of overtime per= > > man-day to yield an eight-figure value such as you quote.  > A > OK, I'll do the math for you: 35000 officers on 12-hour shifts:  > A > $10,000,000 / (35000 officers * 12 hours) = $23.80/hour/officer   F Um, you forgot to allow for their pay before overtime. You've got themD *ALL* working 24 hours a day (12 hour shift at straight pay, plus 12 hours overtime).  H > not terribly unreasonable given overtime rates. Yes, all 35000 of them" > were deployed on 12-hour shifts. > [snip] > > : > > > What would it take for you to disapprove of the TWU? > > K > > Counter-question: what would take for you to APPROVE of the TWU? *MUST* L > > they meet criteria of absolute perfection? ...or would you even consider; > > accepting a balance between what's desirable and what's  > > possible/practical?  > H > Absolute perfection? They aren't anywhere near perfection of any kind.H > Not even in the same solar system. That's like saying a CEO who abusesI > his company and/or workers shouldn't be disapproved of because he's not 
 > perfect.   You didn't answer the question.    > > I > > > Ya know, David, you could still agree that the TWU acted selfishly,  > >  > > Hardly.  >  > words escape me. >  > >  > > > illegally, > > ? > > Based on a law which is itself of questionable legality and " > > constitutionality? Not likely. > > > This law was passed in 1967. That's quite a long time for anE > unconstitutional law to still be on the books. Can you back up your  > claim?  O http://www.archives.gov/national-archives-experience/charters/constitution.html    > >  > > > thuggishly,  > >  > > No basis in fact.  >    Not  > wrong  >  > >  > > > irresponsibly, > > $ > > Conjecture and no basis in fact.   Not  > wrong  >  > >   > > > and morally reprehensively > > ( > > Opinion. Unjustifiable in any terms.   Not  > wrong  >  > > 	 > > > and D > > > still be pro-union. They're not the only union. In fact, theirM > > > international parent union was against the strike and ordered them back  > > > to work!!! > > L > > Well, technically, the parent union advised them against striking and inK > > the end convinced the locals that the strike was not legally defensible C > > and was potentially financially destructive if the fines levied K > > withstand the inevitable legal challenges. No one "forced" anyone to do 
 > > ANYthing.  > E > WRONG! The strikers forced millions of people to suffer needlessly.   B Show me the reports of people being held or otherwise assaulted at
 gun-point.  D When you structure your life around elements you cannot control, you@ tacitly accept the possibility/probability of such service beingH spontaneously interrupted, regardless of the cause of that interruption:? work stoppage, derailment or other train-reck, train striking a  pedestrian, ...   D There was an event here locally where cars stopped upon a block-longF diagonal RR crossing (which is clearly posted "Do Not Stop On Tracks")A were plowed-through by a commuter train making circa. 70 MPH (the G maximum legal cruising speed). Two separate commuter lines and at least C a dozen freight trains were effected. The road was closed for three ' calendar days during the investigation.   F Shall we start a sub-thread about how "imperfect" it is for drivers toD inconvenience commuters by causing such an easily preventable wreck?4 ...or about how illegal it is to stop on the tracks?  F > And I heard on the news that the parent union "ordered" them back to > work.   2 That's not what was reported in the national news.  L > > > BTW, the city did plan ahead. They had contignecy plans and we did theK > > > best we could in light of a very difficult situation. (Hey, I suppose < > > > the tsunami victims should have "planned ahead", too!) > > > M > > > The city also planned ahead by instituting the Taylor Law. The union is  > > > out $3 million.  > > J > > If the fines levied withstand the inevitable legal challenges. The lawI > > itself will probably face a legal challenge of its own in the days to 	 > > come.  > H > Haven't heard of any such thing, so probably not. The last I heard the% > fines still stick, and they should.   D Don't expect any such results for at least two years, possibly more.  " > Hey, if there's any chance of itH > being unconstitutional I'm sure the ACLU would already be on the case,  D The ACLU would be more likely to side with the commuting public than with labor.   G > and they're not AFAIK. And if it is constitutional, there's something  > wrong with the Constitution.  < There's nothing wrong with the Constitution. What's wrong isD emasculating labor to the point that it is powerless against "robber baron" employers.    > > = > > > I guess they should have planned for that. The strikers L > > > are out a minumum of 6 days' pay -- and perhaps $25,000 each on top ofJ > > > that -- should have planned! Toussaint was held in contempt of court? > > > and nearly landed in jail. You know: should have planned!  > > J > > They did: the made choices. Difficult choices, certainly, and probablyK > > not the choices most folks would make. Then again, even PATCO knew what L > > might happen, but placed honor above the law (laws are laws, but are not( > > always the "honorable" thing to do). > ; > LOL! Screwing 210 people per transit worker is honorable?   G Standing up for one's rights is NOT honorable??!!! Da, Comrade, I guess 	 it isn't!    > No, they placed greed    Correction, fairness.     > above the law. There's nothing   Correction: much   > honorable    ...and constitutional...   > about 4 > what they did. All the harm they did is honorable?  / See the previous discussions of life-structure.    > All the economicG > losses, the people getting sick from overexerting and waiting in line H > in subfrezing temperatures to get to and from work, the fireman nearly& > being killed riding his bike to work  B What do you propose as a panacea to prevent any and all accidents?   > -- this is honorable? It's > honorable to try to extort   Correction: Negotiate   , > even more money from people whose benefitsD > aren't even a small fraction of what the TWU workers already have,  A Need a collective bargain agent for yourself and your co-workers? . Contact the union representative in your area.   > and B > also after the MTA met many of their demands (see the Daily NewsC > editorial from Dec 13, 2005) including the MTA backing off on its H > redueced pensions for future hires demands, giving a reasonable raise,G > and a bonus? How is this honorable? And in response to the MTA giving H > in at least paritally to many of their demands, the TWU responded thatC > pensions to already retired workers be increased! Talk about your  > reverse Robin Hood!!!   G Try again. See any available reference to SS benefits reductions. "Talk ! about your reverse Robin Hood!!!"   F > And they say their strike helps all workers? How the hell does it do > that?   G How does property value increase? Think about it before posting another  crock about "evasive answers".  C > It fattens their pockets at the expense of the workers they claim  > to be helping!  E Analogy: Your legs are experiencing circulation problems. Should your G heart "donate" some of it's blood supply to help your legs? Think about 8 it before posting another crock about "evasive answers".  A > Health costs and pension costs are spiraling out of control and E > businesses and gov't have to do something about it. That's reality.   C Yeah! They gotta cut executive salaries/benefits down to reasonable G levels, rein-in contributions to lobbyists and special interest groups, H and just generally get their house in order before they go shipping jobsC to the third world (in which case, all this union discussion is for  nought).  ! > (Repetitive reference snipped)  H > These workers get top-of-the-line health benefits for their family for > life.   = Yes - they are setting an example of what organized labor can F accomplish, even when the government tries its damnedest to keep theirH rank and file enslaved for the mere pittance being offered by the robber barons.   
 > > [snip]K > > > It is certainly ironic that the same law that allows the union in the M > > > first place also forbids them from striking. This law provides benefits L > > > to the transit workers, who end up with a health care plan and pensionK > > > most others in the country can only dream of, but with those benefits - > > > come restrictions and responsibilities.  > > L > > Unions cannot be legislated against - such a law would quickly be struckL > > down as unconstitutional. There is no provision in the constitution thatG > > allows for work stoppages to be banned by law; however, the Supreme I > > Court of the U.S. (the de-facto ultimate source of legislation, which = > > itself is unconstitutional) has not established this yet.  > # > I find this very hard to believe.   O http://www.archives.gov/national-archives-experience/charters/constitution.html    > > @ > > > Can you tell me how it's "fair" that this union should getI > > > ever-increasing benefits while the rest of us pay higher and higher H > > > taxes, tolls, and fares and have to endure far worse and sometimes > > > decreasing benefits? > > J > > Same as any other labor body that megotiates with an employer or group > > of employers.  >  > Nonsense.    Hardly.    > >  > > > > + > > > > Gues y'all almost wound up singing:  > > > >  > > > > No el, No el,  > > > > MTA is on strike!  > > > J > > > This is sick. I'm beginning to think that YOU'RE sick. 'Substituting! > > > nastiness for argument, eh?  > > H > > If I hadn't said it, some media maven would have (and probably did). > H > Not a valid excuse. Remind me to send you a similar laughing nastygramE > if you become unable to do VMS work because of some similar reason.    Sour grapes.  M > > > If you give another one of your cryptic, dodging, "I didn't say that!", G > > > "go back and read it for yourself", BS responses, I'm outta here!  > > E > > Well, those are my usual, non-cryptic, non-dodging, "I didn't say G > > that!", "go back and read it for yourself", non-BS responses. So, I $ > > guess you're outta here (again). > G > Wrong again! This was better than all of your other responses, except ! > that your answers are all still    Not  > wrong. > G > Email me your fax number and I'll fax you the Daily News editorial to  > which I referred.   B Does your FAX machine also scan? Can you send a .TIF or some otherH graphics file by e-mail? (Hint: See the "Contact Us" page at djesys.com,F but note that the link from the home page is not active to help thwart automated harvesters.)   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 15:24:10 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>8 Subject: Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march today+ Message-ID: <43B30279.6AC4F6A8@comcast.net>   
 AEF wrote: > [snip]  C I'm intentionally posting this as a separate reply to side-step the  S/N...  8 (I'm trying to helpful here, so retract your fangs, 'k?)  8 Consider the tone of your replies, and THEN the content.  G You display a serious "victim" paradigm. Not at all uncommon - in fact, E it's actually the norm in much of society, but just the same it's not D especially healthy, either (200+ million wrongs don't make a right).  F What would *I* do in the face a mass-transit outage, especially if the' duration was expected to be protracted?   C I'd find a way to deal with it. Sure, I'd bitch, moan, "kvetch" (as H Larry G. likes to say), etc., but then I'd get down to the task at hand: figuring out what to do next.   C I'm sure the end result would be less than ideal, of that I am 100% G certain. But, the result I'd achieve would certainly be MORE ideal than H the result of complaining, lashing out and otherwise playing the victim.  3 Find the serenity to accept what you cannot change.   / Find the courage to change what you CAN change.   H The wisdom to know the difference will come to you naturally, even if it$ is ultimately a hard-learned lesson.  E (Non-religious variation on "The Serenity Prayer", (C)2005 by David J  Dachtera, All Rights Reserved.)    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Dec 2005 15:22:51 -0800$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>8 Subject: Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march todayC Message-ID: <1135812171.729040.170150@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    David J Dachtera wrote:  > AEF wrote:
 > > [snip] > E > I'm intentionally posting this as a separate reply to side-step the  > S/N... > : > (I'm trying to helpful here, so retract your fangs, 'k?)    > Hmmmm. You're the one laughing at us with that cruel Noel bit.    : > Consider the tone of your replies, and THEN the content.    F To quote Mick Jagger, he said something like when people are polite toF me, I'm polite to them. If they're nasty, I'm nasty back. I try to errF on the nice side as if all people went all out to get what they insistE is fair, there'd certainly be huge areas of disagreement, which gives 6 us the world we have. Everyone needs to give a little.    I > You display a serious "victim" paradigm. Not at all uncommon - in fact, G > it's actually the norm in much of society, but just the same it's not F > especially healthy, either (200+ million wrongs don't make a right). > H > What would *I* do in the face a mass-transit outage, especially if the) > duration was expected to be protracted?  > E > I'd find a way to deal with it. Sure, I'd bitch, moan, "kvetch" (as J > Larry G. likes to say), etc., but then I'd get down to the task at hand: > figuring out what to do next.  > E > I'm sure the end result would be less than ideal, of that I am 100% I > certain. But, the result I'd achieve would certainly be MORE ideal than J > the result of complaining, lashing out and otherwise playing the victim. > 5 > Find the serenity to accept what you cannot change.  > 1 > Find the courage to change what you CAN change.  > J > The wisdom to know the difference will come to you naturally, even if it& > is ultimately a hard-learned lesson. > G > (Non-religious variation on "The Serenity Prayer", (C)2005 by David J ! > Dachtera, All Rights Reserved.)   & That's why the Taylor Law was enacted.   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Dec 2005 15:50:28 -0800$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>8 Subject: Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march todayC Message-ID: <1135813828.778360.285000@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>    David J Dachtera wrote:  > AEF wrote: > >  > > David J Dachtera wrote:  > > > AEF wrote: > > > >  > > > > David J Dachtera wrote:  > > > > > Lurker wrote:  > > > > > > K > > > > > > "David J Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote in message 1 > > > > > > news:439B3628.36213F03@comcast.net...  > > > > > > K > > > > > > I know I've promised to quit this thread but I couldn't resist.  > > > > > > F > > > > > > So how do you feel about that David after the NY transportD > > > > > > strike? And the fact that NY Times summed up the popular: > > > > > > feelings by the terse but explicit "You Rats!"    5 It was the NY Post, not the NY Times, that said this.     2 > > > > > Ever heard the expression "sour grapes"?    ? OK, now I get it: The grapes are the transit workers' wages and B benefits and you say we are just being jealous of said workers forC that. This misses the point by so much that it never occurred to me  that it is what you meant.  C No one was angry at the transit workers until they made noise about D striking and then struck. So it is not a case of sour grapes. We are< angry with them because they caused great harm purely out ofC selfishness and abuse of power. The last thing I want is to be like  that.   F We are angry with them because their arguments were bogus. Their TV adC was full of lies as the NY Post pointed out. We are angry with them E because they tried to extort even more money from hard-working people F who are not nearly as well off as they. We are angry with them becauseE they caused great harm to the very people they claimed to be helping.   G One could just as well say that you have a case of sour grapes over the 6 CEO robber barrons, special interests, lobbyists, etc.  ? No one is angry with the TWU Local 100 workers because they are @ relatively well off. We are angry with them for the needless and unjustifiable harm they caused.    [ humongous snip ]   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Dec 2005 19:07:50 -0800 From: "Didi" <dp@tgi-sci.com> , Subject: ISO9660 compatibility - please helpB Message-ID: <1135825669.895982.69760@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>  7 I have been struggling for over two days now with this. 2 My ISO9660 output translation code makes and burns6 an ISO9660 CD (no Joliet, nothing - plainest ISO 8.3)," which Windows (XP) won't accept...4  Obviously my ISO input (which is many years of age)2 does read it as it reads any other CD it has seen.8 I found a utility for Windows (isobuster) which had some- objections initially; after some fixing of my 1 code this thing now just opens the disk and reads : absolutely everything without reporting any errors at all.B  I am looking at the header (Windows won't accept the disk at all,, it says the disk file system is damaged) and8 I canot see the reason why my disk is rejected... I have; put the starting part of the disk (root directory included) 9 at http://tgi-sci.com/isohdr.img , as it appears starting 8 with LBN 0 at the rewritable CD (written in mode 1, 20485 bytes per block) I am burning to test the whole mess. 4  Please, if there is some ISO knowledgeable soul out9 there, have a look  - I'll appreciate any hint, right now 2 I have run out of ideas and I am going to sleep...  Thanks,   Dimiter   6 ------------------------------------------------------6 Dimiter Popoff               Transgalactic Instruments   http://www.tgi-sci.com6 ------------------------------------------------------   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Dec 2005 21:34:05 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 0 Subject: Re: ISO9660 compatibility - please help3 Message-ID: <n07ek1vcEc+5@eisner.encompasserve.org>   b In article <1135825669.895982.69760@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "Didi" <dp@tgi-sci.com> writes:9 > I have been struggling for over two days now with this. 4 > My ISO9660 output translation code makes and burns8 > an ISO9660 CD (no Joliet, nothing - plainest ISO 8.3),$ > which Windows (XP) won't accept...  # So you have a problem with Windows.   $ And why do you post to comp.os.vms ?  : If you tried it on VMS you failed to describe the results,9 and even then you should not be bothering all the _other_  newsgroups !  6 >  Obviously my ISO input (which is many years of age)4 > does read it as it reads any other CD it has seen.: > I found a utility for Windows (isobuster) which had some/ > objections initially; after some fixing of my 3 > code this thing now just opens the disk and reads < > absolutely everything without reporting any errors at all.D >  I am looking at the header (Windows won't accept the disk at all,. > it says the disk file system is damaged) and: > I canot see the reason why my disk is rejected... I have= > put the starting part of the disk (root directory included) ; > at http://tgi-sci.com/isohdr.img , as it appears starting : > with LBN 0 at the rewritable CD (written in mode 1, 20487 > bytes per block) I am burning to test the whole mess. 6 >  Please, if there is some ISO knowledgeable soul out; > there, have a look  - I'll appreciate any hint, right now 4 > I have run out of ideas and I am going to sleep...   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 15:32:06 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>* Subject: Re: old EZ disks with latest VMS?+ Message-ID: <43B30456.6090697F@comcast.net>   / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:  > G > I have a couple of 256-MB EZ disks.  I used to use them for page/swap F > files (handy if the machine has only 48 MB RAM!) but they don't workG > anymore.  A single disk works fine, and I can build a shadow set, but I > when the shadow copy is about 99% complete, the shadow set starts going J > in and out of mount verification several times a second and the only way$ > out is to power-cycle the machine. > G > This behaviour started after an upgrade, if I recall correctly either F > the upgrade to VMS 7.3-2 or after applying a SHADOWING and/or SYSTEMJ > and/or UPDATE patch.  Since I can live without these disks, I didn't tryC > rebooting from the backup system disk to check the old behaviour. E > However, since the disks seem OK physically, and work as individual  > disk, I suspect a VMS bug. > ? > Is anyone using such disks with a fully patched 7.3-2 system?   B Potential dumb question: is the failure rate of SSD's (Solid StateE Disks) such that you can afford to not shadow them (since you're only   using them for page/swap space)?   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 22:34:24 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)* Subject: Re: old EZ disks with latest VMS?$ Message-ID: <dov3tg$rff$1@online.de>  H In article <1Rhn4GotCNcK@cuebid.zko.hp.com>, brooks@cuebid.zko.hp.nospam (Rob Brooks) writes:    J > > I have a couple of 256-MB EZ disks.  I used to use them for page/swap I > > files (handy if the machine has only 48 MB RAM!) but they don't work  J > > anymore.  A single disk works fine, and I can build a shadow set, but L > > when the shadow copy is about 99% complete, the shadow set starts going M > > in and out of mount verification several times a second and the only way  & > > out is to power-cycle the machine. > N > That sounds vaguely familiar, especially the part about the copy going a bit > weird at about 99% complete.  H Maybe from an old post of mine.  I believe I mentioned it here before.  I A few weeks ago, I applied the latest patches, including some that might  E be potentially relevant, and checked the behaviour again.  No change.   F > Can't you dismount the copy target member to get it out of the mount, > verification cycle, rather than rebooting?  I Perhaps, but if so it would take a long time.  Apparently the machine is  I short of resources when this is happening, since I can't even get in via  G SYSMAN from another machine, much less from an interactive login.  The  I console is full of messages but, although I can type blindly, it doesn't   respond either.   I > > This behaviour started after an upgrade, if I recall correctly either H > > the upgrade to VMS 7.3-2 or after applying a SHADOWING and/or SYSTEM > > and/or UPDATE patch. > ) > What SYS and SHADOWING kits are loaded?   * Everything that was current on 2005-12-10.  M $ pipe prod sh hist|sea sys$pipe shadow,_sys|sea sys$pipe 2005,inst/match=and P DEC AXPVMS VMS732_SYSLOA V3.0       Patch       Install     04-SEP-2005 14:51:59P DEC AXPVMS VMS732_SHADOWING V5.0    Patch       Install     04-SEP-2005 14:39:28P DEC AXPVMS VMS732_SHADOWING V4.0    Patch       Install     19-JUN-2005 08:06:21P DEC AXPVMS VMS732_SYS V7.0          Patch       Install     19-MAY-2005 01:55:35P DEC AXPVMS VMS731_SYSINI V1.0       Patch       Install     17-APR-2005 11:07:41  4 The only patches I'm missing are the relatively new F VMS732_LAT-V0100 and VMS732_XFC-V0200.  (VAXSHAD02_073 is not relevant! since the problem is with ALPHA.)   A > > Is anyone using such disks with a fully patched 7.3-2 system?  > O > I'm on vacation this week (as is most of VMS Engineering), and don't have any I > ESE's installed on any of my clusters, but I'll see if I can reproduce  - > this next week when I'm back in the office.  > H > Feel free to bug me late next week if I haven't come up with an answer > to this issue!  I Thanks.  The fact that the disks work normally when not part of a shadow  F set and the fact that the strange behaviour appeared after an upgrade A strongly hints at a VMS problem.  Technically, this system isn't  G supported since it is running 7.3-2 with 48 MB RAM (apparently with no  G problems) (legally it isn't supported since it is a hobbyist machine),  E but my suspicion is that the problem is more general and possibly of  D interest to others.  (Of course, times have changed.  I think these H disks were quite expensive when they were new.  When I got a new mobile F phone at work and was assembling it, I recall putting in a chip about D the size of a paper clip which was 32 MB, more memory than some VAX E machines I have worked on (along with 50 other simultaneous users).   H Probably no-one paying support uses such disks anymore, but the problem  might be much more general.)   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 15:23:36 -0500 % From: BRAD <bradhamilton@comcast.net> Y Subject: OT - SWB Flash browser problem? (was:Re: Windoze ends year with a major cert ... * Message-ID: <43B2F448.7080100@comcast.net>   Rich Jordan wrote: > Brad, B >      there was a problem with an older flash plugin crashing theH > browser at some sites (I had a thread here).  Per Hoff, the fix was toG > download a more current plugin via the HP web pages.  His response to  > my post is here: > A > http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.vms/msg/306e6656088d4947  > E > That may or may not be the problem you're having but it sure sounds < > like what my browser was doing before the plug-in upgrade. >    Hi Rich,  D Thanks.  I had the plugin installed already, but just to be sure, I H downloaded the plugin from Mark Berryman's site, and did a diff against C the plugin already installed - same size, no diffs.  I changed the  G protection mask and ownership of the plugin to match the others in the  E same directory, and restarted the browser.  I pointed the browser at  G theinquirer's home page, with the same results.  The flash movie there  I is apparently causing my browser agita.  Flash content at other websites  I do no harm to my browser; either I can see the content, or just a static   rectangle with pixels.   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Dec 2005 21:40:32 +01006 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)Y Subject: Re: OT - SWB Flash browser problem? (was:Re: Windoze ends year with a major cert , Message-ID: <43b30650$1@news.langstoeger.at>  R In article <43B2F448.7080100@comcast.net>, BRAD <bradhamilton@comcast.net> writes: >Rich Jordan wrote: C >>      there was a problem with an older flash plugin crashing the I >> browser at some sites (I had a thread here).  Per Hoff, the fix was to H >> download a more current plugin via the HP web pages.  His response to >> my post is here:  >>  B >> http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.vms/msg/306e6656088d4947 >>  F >> That may or may not be the problem you're having but it sure sounds= >> like what my browser was doing before the plug-in upgrade.  > E >Thanks.  I had the plugin installed already, but just to be sure, I  I >downloaded the plugin from Mark Berryman's site, and did a diff against  D >the plugin already installed - same size, no diffs.  I changed the H >protection mask and ownership of the plugin to match the others in the F >same directory, and restarted the browser.  I pointed the browser at H >theinquirer's home page, with the same results.  The flash movie there J >is apparently causing my browser agita.  Flash content at other websites J >do no harm to my browser; either I can see the content, or just a static  >rectangle with pixels.    Thanks for testing. C Same seen here. CSWB V1.7-11 aborts. And I think I have the current  flash plugin too...    --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 14:21:03 -0500 % From: BRAD <bradhamilton@comcast.net> 5 Subject: OT: CAPS (was:Re: TLZ07/TLZ09 compatability) * Message-ID: <43B2E59F.8070403@comcast.net>  
 AEF wrote: <cut> F >>>YES, I CLEANED THE STUPID DRIVES. PLEASE DON'T TELL ME TO CLEAN THE$ >>>DRIVES. THAT DOESN'T HELP AT ALL. >>N >>Liberal use of capitals probably does engage people attention, but maybe not+ >>in a way that makes them want to respond.  > G > But people who read my posts often miss important points and in other E > ways misunderstand them. I have almost no doubt that had I not used G > (big, scary, evil) upper case letters I would have gotten several, or H > perhaps, numerous posts asking if I cleaned the drives or telling me I7 > should clean the drives, wasting a whole lot of time.  > G > (Just as an aside: Why are so many in the IT community so offended by 6 > upper case letters? What exactly is the big horror?)  F You probably know this already - (but I didn't see a smiley, so, here H goes) it's considered impolite, virtual yelling.  Yelling at folks that G can (potentially) help you makes them hesitate, and not bother in some  < cases (see the sentence above that begins, "Liberal use...")  G Two-way (and multi-way) communication is tough.  Not everyone involved  E in the conversation understands everything completely the first time  I through; that's the purpose of dialogue.  The lack of non-verbal cues in  F online discourse makes it almost impossible to converse without added B "overhead".  Stay calm, don't panic, 	:-) and your questions will  (probably) be answered.	   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Dec 2005 12:09:54 -0800$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>9 Subject: Re: OT: CAPS (was:Re: TLZ07/TLZ09 compatability) C Message-ID: <1135800594.627940.165230@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    BRAD wrote:  > AEF wrote: > <cut> H > >>>YES, I CLEANED THE STUPID DRIVES. PLEASE DON'T TELL ME TO CLEAN THE& > >>>DRIVES. THAT DOESN'T HELP AT ALL. > >>P > >>Liberal use of capitals probably does engage people attention, but maybe not- > >>in a way that makes them want to respond.  > > I > > But people who read my posts often miss important points and in other G > > ways misunderstand them. I have almost no doubt that had I not used I > > (big, scary, evil) upper case letters I would have gotten several, or J > > perhaps, numerous posts asking if I cleaned the drives or telling me I9 > > should clean the drives, wasting a whole lot of time.  > > I > > (Just as an aside: Why are so many in the IT community so offended by 8 > > upper case letters? What exactly is the big horror?) > G > You probably know this already - (but I didn't see a smiley, so, here I > goes) it's considered impolite, virtual yelling.  Yelling at folks that H > can (potentially) help you makes them hesitate, and not bother in some> > cases (see the sentence above that begins, "Liberal use...")  C Yes, but IT started in upper case, did it not? I wrote much FORTRAN C code in upper case except sometimes the comments. DCL is usually in E upper case. No one thinks it's yelling. Much, if not most, VMS output E is in upper case. No one's complained about being yelled at by VMS!!! E Hell, even the terms VMS and DCL are spelled in upper case! And older A F$EDIT has UPCASE, but no "lowercase" keyword. And even the newer ? version of F$EDIT that *does* have lowercase, the manual spells  lowercase in upper case!!!  C I think context matters. In a collection notice, yes, upper case is G pretty obnoxious. I don't see why it's automatically considered yelling  in a Usenet post.   C I'd use italics if I could. The point is EMPHASIS, not YELLING. The F purpose was to be sure that message was received and noted. Maybe nextB time I'll try liberal use of asterisks. Or maybe NB. Constructive, friendly criticism is welcome.  F It doesn't bother me when others use upper case, so I was applying the Golden Rule.    H > Two-way (and multi-way) communication is tough.  Not everyone involvedF > in the conversation understands everything completely the first timeJ > through; that's the purpose of dialogue.  The lack of non-verbal cues inG > online discourse makes it almost impossible to converse without added C > "overhead".  Stay calm, don't panic, 	:-) and your questions will  > (probably) be answered.     F OK. I was just trying to save time and aggravation (and aggravation isG plentiful with these drives!!!). Did you see Steve's recent post asking F about his wanting to emulate /EXCLUDE in his zip program? I thought itG was pretty clear, but there was plenty of misunderstanding resulting in  some awesomely funny humor!    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 14:34:13 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> + Subject: Re: Patch release notes complete ? , Message-ID: <43B2E89C.59AD02A4@teksavvy.com>  / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: C > > For example: starting with TCPIP Services 5.3 (VAX),  TCPIP SET ? > > INTERFACE SL1 /etc crashes the system right then and there.  > @ > Does it completely crash the machine, i.e. return you to >>> ?    G Yep. So probably something in the SLIP driver which has a bug and and a . driver has a bug, the whole system listens :-)  G When I had upgraded to 5.3, my all mighty microvax II would boot, crash G when it started TCPIP, boot again, crash when it started TCPIP etc etc. 9 Took me a long while to isolate it to the SLIP interface.    ------------------------------    Date: 28 Dec 2005 15:20:37 -0500. From: brooks@cuebid.zko.hp.nospam (Rob Brooks)  Subject: Re: shadowing questions, Message-ID: <5IJKJc8Uhw0l@cuebid.zko.hp.com>  2 (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: > (Rob Brooks) writes:    O >> If you attempt to mount an HBMM-enabled shadowset on the VAX that is serving K >> the disks, the process issuing the mount will appear to hang for about a  >> minute,   > K > Will it hang or appear to hang?  What's the difference?  (Wagner's music  # > is better than it sounds.  :-)  )   D Thank you for pointing out my less-than-clear use of language there!  K It does hang, but only momentarily (as opposed to a permanent [RWAST-style] M hang that never "untangles" itself).  Technically, the process isn't hanging, H it is attempting to acquire and validate a lock that is used to keep theF shadow set intact.  For HBMM and DDS (dissimilar device shadowing), weH changed the format of the lock value block so that older, non-conformingL systems (in this case, any VAX, or any pre-V7.3-2 system), would not be able% to successfully mount the shadow set.   N For certain VMS versions that predate DDS or HBMM (in this case, that would beK V7.3, V7.3-1, and V7.3-2 without the HBMM kit), we did make some changes to H MOUNT that would recognize the format change of the lock value block andN immediately return an error, rather than try for up to a minute to acquire theK lock. I *thought* that we also make those changes for OpenVMS VAX V7.3, but L it's possible that I'm misremembering, or that those changes haven't made it! out in the form of a VAX kit yet.     6 >> after which the following message will appear . . . >>  < >> %MOUNT-F-DEVBUSY, mount or dismount in progress on device > 5 > What happens after that?  Can it be mounted at all?   + Not on a system that does not support HBMM.    --    L Rob Brooks    VMS Engineering -- I/O Exec Group     brooks!cuebid.zko.hp.com   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Dec 2005 21:15:31 +01006 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) Subject: Re: SSH, Message-ID: <43b30073$1@news.langstoeger.at>  w In article <doujfl$uu2$2@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: I >I'm thinking of using SSH on VMS.  For various reasons, I want to stick  ; >with HP TCPIP and also with the SSH which comes with that.  > I >Is this product "mature" enough for, shall we say, serious hoobyist use?    Yup.   >Both client and server?  
 Of course.  1 >                           Is there SSH for VAX?   3 Only from Process Software (TCPware, Multinet, ...)   M >                                                   How easy is installation  H >and configuration?  (Presumably if I have the latest TCPIP and patches . >installed, then I just need to configure it.)  A Works plain vanilla out of the box (with V5.4 ECO5 or V5.5 ECO1).    --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 18:59:50 -0000 @ From: "Alex Daniels" <alexNOSPAMHERETHANKSdaniels@themail.co.uk>& Subject: Re: TLZ07/TLZ09 compatability4 Message-ID: <43b2e04c$0$906$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>  = "Chris Scheers" <chris@applied-synergy.com> wrote in message  , news:43B2DA73.1010200@applied-synergy.com...L > Speaking of which, where can you get the latest firmware for these drives? > 8 > I have the latest Seagate firmware for the equivalent I > Seagate/Conner/Archive drives, but I assume that this might not be the  , > best choice for loading into these drives.  I I would not personally recommend using firmware from alternative sources.   G LT&T may well be able to help, if it can that would most likely be the   simplest method.  G Otherwise you can order the upgrade kit via the following part numbers.   A TLZ07 : QZ-00LAA-UP (but not if your current firmware is A01/A02)    TLZ09 : QZ-00LAC-UP.03A5   Alex     ------------------------------    Date: 28 Dec 2005 11:20:47 -0800$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>& Subject: Re: TLZ07/TLZ09 compatabilityC Message-ID: <1135797647.025174.220450@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>    Alex Daniels wrote: 1 > "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> wrote in message > > news:1135793975.300048.44960@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...G > > I have no idea what the firmware revision levels are. How do I find  > > out? How do I update them? > > C > > The TLZ07 is old and I forget its history. But the TLZ09's were H > > definitely supplied by hp support several months ago as replacementsK > > for other bad TLZ07's and/or TLZ09's so I don't know why they shouldn't  > > just work. > H > Personally I would not accept a replacement drive from HP or any otherF > service support vendor, until I had confirmed it is running the sameK > revision of firmware (which would normally be the latest), as the one the L > were taking away. If it was different I would expect it be upgraded before > the call out was completed.  > L > I would expect LT&T (free download) would be able to show you the firmwareI > versions, although I can't say I've used it with TLZ07 / TLZ09  drives.  > @ > http://h18004.www1.hp.com/products/storageworks/ltt/index.html    E Unfortunately I am running VMS 6.2. The link above says that ltt only " supports VMS 7.3-1 and up. Bummer.    C > I take it you have tried using different media as some tapes ship K > contaminated or later become contaminated, also this contagion spreads to 7 > the other drives my you moving the tape between them.   B Not with the three test drives. I did try different tapes with theE original offending drive. I even tried DDS-1 tapes thinking that they B were thicker and less vulnerable to stretching and overheating andD such, but the 3rd DDS-1 tape of backing up an 18 GB drive failed itsD verification pass. I originally became suspect when some older tapesA made on the same drive would crap out with parity errors part way F through BACKUP/LIST operations. It could read the tape up to a certainG point and then ... BOOM: parity errors. I had made two sets of tapes at D the same time. Fortunately, the other set is still readable. This is scary.  G What would I need to get a DLT drive? Wouldn't it be expensive? Do they G slide into the StorageWorks cabinet or would it be a separate table top  drive?       >----o----<   E I'll repeat my experiment with some more spanking brand new tapes and @ post the results. But you make it sound like its too easy to get< contamination that spreads and ruins everything! Well, in myD experiment, all the tapes could be read back fine on the drives theyG were written on (even after failing on each's other drives), so I don't A think that is the problem here. And the drive I'm replacing can't  always even do *that*!   > N > Also check the error log, if there is anything from there, please report the > SCSI error codes.   0 I'll also gather some of these for my next post.   >  > Alex   Thanks for your rapid replies!   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 19:49:08 -0000 @ From: "Alex Daniels" <alexNOSPAMHERETHANKSdaniels@themail.co.uk>& Subject: Re: TLZ07/TLZ09 compatability4 Message-ID: <43b2ec16$0$893$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>  0 "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> wrote in message = news:1135797647.025174.220450@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com... I > What would I need to get a DLT drive? Wouldn't it be expensive? Do they I > slide into the StorageWorks cabinet or would it be a separate table top  > drive?  K As you state you are currently using DDS-2 tapes you are getting 4GB (or 8  J compressed, if your lucky), of course DAT has been improved and DAT-72 is L available which handles 72GB, I don't know if capacity per tape is an issue  for you however.  J There would be a number of things to consider before making the move, but J for a greenfield VMS only site, I would personally chose DLT over DAT (if G they were the only choices), if there was any significant amount to be  H backed up, and there were not any physical space limitations. Of course A given other factors, other technologies would also be considered.   J Older DLT drives will fit into your "StorageWorks cabinet", I suspect you L are meaning do they come in SBB's, you can certainly get various DLT drives L that will slot into various BA35x shelves. Tabletop or library is an option  too.  L DLT's will retail from next to nothing on ebay (search for TZ87,TZ88, TZ89) J for older variants, up to 100's of thousands for big walk-in auto loaders.  G > I'll repeat my experiment with some more spanking brand new tapes and B > post the results. But you make it sound like its too easy to get2 > contamination that spreads and ruins everything!  1 Do clean them all before you put the new tape in.    Alex     ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 12:35:37 -0800  From: Z <Z@no.spam> & Subject: Re: TLZ07/TLZ09 compatability* Message-ID: <pGCsf.5970$5R3.2884@fe02.lga>   Alex Daniels wrote: I > Personally I would not accept a replacement drive from HP or any other  G > service support vendor, until I had confirmed it is running the same  L > revision of firmware (which would normally be the latest), as the one the M > were taking away. If it was different I would expect it be upgraded before   > the call out was completed.   H .. or downgraded. Remember, _some_ of us are stuck on older versions of D VMS. This is a chronic issue with my customers and it keeps getting H worse, as the # of downgrade steps to get to the last supported version + of tape drive firmware increases with time.   6 I cringe when I get a call now about a bad tape drive.  K It's a half-day process just to get the drive loaded w. the right firmware.    ------------------------------    Date: 28 Dec 2005 18:02:42 -0800$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>& Subject: Re: TLZ07/TLZ09 compatabilityC Message-ID: <1135821762.865538.166670@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Alex Daniels wrote: 1 > "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> wrote in message ? > news:1135797647.025174.220450@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com... K > > What would I need to get a DLT drive? Wouldn't it be expensive? Do they K > > slide into the StorageWorks cabinet or would it be a separate table top 
 > > drive? > L > As you state you are currently using DDS-2 tapes you are getting 4GB (or 8K > compressed, if your lucky), of course DAT has been improved and DAT-72 is M > available which handles 72GB, I don't know if capacity per tape is an issue  > for you however.  D Currently my largest disk is 18 GB, so 72 would be plenty. I may getE larger disk eventually, but I'm running a small legacy app. All of my  other disks are 9 GB or less.   K > There would be a number of things to consider before making the move, but K > for a greenfield VMS only site, I would personally chose DLT over DAT (if H > they were the only choices), if there was any significant amount to beI > backed up, and there were not any physical space limitations. Of course C > given other factors, other technologies would also be considered.   C I may end up doing something with Netbackup. I'm going to a meeting D tomorrow where some consultant person will help us improve how we doE backups. Maybe he'll have something for VAX/VMS. I'll ask. But before B all that, I need to get a working tape drive on this system. I may3 cannibalize one from another less important system.   A Speaking of Netbackup, is it possible to put a dual NIC card on a D MicroVAX 3195? We do our netbackups over a separate LAN, but as mine$ are mostly small, it's not critical.   > K > Older DLT drives will fit into your "StorageWorks cabinet", I suspect you M > are meaning do they come in SBB's, you can certainly get various DLT drives M > that will slot into various BA35x shelves. Tabletop or library is an option  > too. > M > DLT's will retail from next to nothing on ebay (search for TZ87,TZ88, TZ89) L > for older variants, up to 100's of thousands for big walk-in auto loaders. > I > > I'll repeat my experiment with some more spanking brand new tapes and D > > post the results. But you make it sound like its too easy to get4 > > contamination that spreads and ruins everything! > 3 > Do clean them all before you put the new tape in.   F OK. I will. But I really doubt it will make the unreadable readable in
 this case.   >  > Alex   AEF    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 03:00:24 -0000 @ From: "Alex Daniels" <alexNOSPAMHERETHANKSdaniels@themail.co.uk>& Subject: Re: TLZ07/TLZ09 compatability6 Message-ID: <43b35122$0$29559$da0feed9@news.zen.co.uk>  0 "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> wrote in message = news:1135821762.865538.166670@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...   F > Currently my largest disk is 18 GB, so 72 would be plenty. I may getG > larger disk eventually, but I'm running a small legacy app. All of my  > other disks are 9 GB or less.   K If this is for a VAX as you seem to indicate below, the DAT-72 drives will  < definetly not be supported. Some TZ8x DLT's will be however.  E > I may end up doing something with Netbackup. I'm going to a meeting F > tomorrow where some consultant person will help us improve how we doG > backups. Maybe he'll have something for VAX/VMS. I'll ask. But before D > all that, I need to get a working tape drive on this system. I may5 > cannibalize one from another less important system.   L In the vast majority of cases I'm against doing backups to non-VMS systems, E you should consider this move very carefully, think about bare metal  L restores, and if your NetBackup server isn't in a multi-site configuration, L the time it takes for it to be restored itself first in a disaster, etc etc.  E There are two products known as "NetBackup" for VMS. I guess you are  H refering however to Veritas Netbackup? I have used that with VAX (V7.3) " clients prior, and it worked fine.  C > Speaking of Netbackup, is it possible to put a dual NIC card on a F > MicroVAX 3195? We do our netbackups over a separate LAN, but as mine& > are mostly small, it's not critical.  H Well if that backup V/LAN is totally isolated and doesn't route to your 3 regular V/LANs you'll certainly need a second card.   ) I'd consider this card for the uVAX 3195  D http://www.nemonixengineering.com/scsi-vax-3185-4106.html , V6.2 is J supported (although you should really look to upgrade), and it's 100Mb/s. H You can also get it with a HP part number and put it on your regular HP  contract, fully supported.   Alex     ------------------------------    Date: 28 Dec 2005 19:28:13 -0800$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>& Subject: Re: TLZ07/TLZ09 compatabilityB Message-ID: <1135826893.794808.96140@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   Z wrote: > Alex Daniels wrote: J > > Personally I would not accept a replacement drive from HP or any otherH > > service support vendor, until I had confirmed it is running the sameM > > revision of firmware (which would normally be the latest), as the one the N > > were taking away. If it was different I would expect it be upgraded before > > the call out was completed.  > I > .. or downgraded. Remember, _some_ of us are stuck on older versions of E > VMS. This is a chronic issue with my customers and it keeps getting I > worse, as the # of downgrade steps to get to the last supported version - > of tape drive firmware increases with time.  > 8 > I cringe when I get a call now about a bad tape drive. > M > It's a half-day process just to get the drive loaded w. the right firmware.   F You mean that one can have drives with too-recent firmware? Could thatG cause problems like I'm having or would it just not work at all (I have ; systems running VAX/VMS v6.1 and others with VAX/VMS v6.2).    ------------------------------    Date: 28 Dec 2005 19:43:31 -0800$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>& Subject: Re: TLZ07/TLZ09 compatabilityC Message-ID: <1135827811.340978.109090@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Alex Daniels wrote: 1 > "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> wrote in message ? > news:1135821762.865538.166670@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...  > H > > Currently my largest disk is 18 GB, so 72 would be plenty. I may getI > > larger disk eventually, but I'm running a small legacy app. All of my ! > > other disks are 9 GB or less.  > L > If this is for a VAX as you seem to indicate below, the DAT-72 drives will> > definetly not be supported. Some TZ8x DLT's will be however.  E So with DLT drives I shouldn't have all these problems, right? I also G have problems that tapes are sometimes only readable to a certain point B after which parity errors bring things to a dead halt. And this is@ definitely drive-dependent. Sometimes one drive can get a littleB farther on a "bad tape" than another drive can. Very frutstrating.3 That's why I wrote "I Lost It with the Tape Drive".    > G > > I may end up doing something with Netbackup. I'm going to a meeting H > > tomorrow where some consultant person will help us improve how we doI > > backups. Maybe he'll have something for VAX/VMS. I'll ask. But before F > > all that, I need to get a working tape drive on this system. I may7 > > cannibalize one from another less important system.  > M > In the vast majority of cases I'm against doing backups to non-VMS systems, F > you should consider this move very carefully, think about bare metalM > restores, and if your NetBackup server isn't in a multi-site configuration, N > the time it takes for it to be restored itself first in a disaster, etc etc.  F My systems are highly redundant. Each desk has its own set of systems.E There is the central "market system" to which are connected "regional G nodes". If a regional node goes bad, I can move the few traders or data F feed jobs on it to another. If the market node goes bad (and it hasn'tB happened in the five years I've been working at this place) I haveE backup local and remote systems with the app partly up allowing for a D recovery in a few minutes. The locations are NYC and London with two regional nodes in Hong Kong.  F I've never had to do a "bare metal restore". I do have some TZ30's forF the standalone kit (but would try on-disk standalone booting first, ofE course) and can restore system disks by keeping the TLZ's while doing F the daily backups with Netbackup. The systems disks are all configuredF pretty much the same so a(n) SAB copy operation and a node name changeG is pretty much all that is needed. Also, I am moving toward adding more 
 shadowing.   > F > There are two products known as "NetBackup" for VMS. I guess you areI > refering however to Veritas Netbackup? I have used that with VAX (V7.3) $ > clients prior, and it worked fine.  ? I believe we use Veritas for everything but the VAX and Stratus  systems.  E > > Speaking of Netbackup, is it possible to put a dual NIC card on a H > > MicroVAX 3195? We do our netbackups over a separate LAN, but as mine( > > are mostly small, it's not critical. > I > Well if that backup V/LAN is totally isolated and doesn't route to your 5 > regular V/LANs you'll certainly need a second card.   ? Well, if I couldn't get a dual NIC card, we'd do the backups on A whatever LAN the VAX systems are on. It doesn't have to be on the B backup VLAN, but that's what the other systems are backed up over.  * > I'd consider this card for the uVAX 3195E > http://www.nemonixengineering.com/scsi-vax-3185-4106.html , V6.2 is K > supported (although you should really look to upgrade), and it's 100Mb/s. I > You can also get it with a HP part number and put it on your regular HP  > contract, fully supported.   Cool. I'll check it out.  @ Upgrading would be a big deal. I have 35 systems online in threeE cities. Though we only need to back up a few of them. Also, we'd have E to test our app on the upgraded systems, but I think it's very likely  that it would work just fine.    >  > Alex   AEF    ------------------------------    Date: 28 Dec 2005 11:47:31 -0800( From: "Rich Jordan" <jordan@ccs4vms.com>4 Subject: Re: Windoze ends year with a major cert ...C Message-ID: <1135799251.275137.316620@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>    Brad, @      there was a problem with an older flash plugin crashing theF browser at some sites (I had a thread here).  Per Hoff, the fix was toE download a more current plugin via the HP web pages.  His response to  my post is here:  ? http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.vms/msg/306e6656088d4947   C That may or may not be the problem you're having but it sure sounds : like what my browser was doing before the plug-in upgrade.   Bob,G      thanks for the heads-up.  SANS didn't have anything yet, but there E is some buzz starting up elsewhere so its apparently a legit problem. 1 At least I can warn the poor peecee users here...    Rich   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 20:05:05 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG4 Subject: Re: Windoze ends year with a major cert ...0 Message-ID: <00A4EF48.8CC00770@SendSpamHere.ORG>  ^ In article <1135794661.212438.87380@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, bob@instantwhip.com writes: >  > B >the work around currently is to unplug your windoze machines from* >the network or to pull the power plug ...  	 ...and???   G That's always been the only way to secure a Weendoze PeeCee!  It's been H that way since the insidious shit boxes were first foisted upon the hap-F less public turning those unfortunate enough to be coerced to use them into intellectual faineants.  - http://www.xeromag.com/fun/winxpsecurity.html    --  K VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 15:41:41 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 4 Subject: Re: Windoze ends year with a major cert ..., Message-ID: <43B2F880.3AD89C4C@teksavvy.com>   BRAD wrote: @ > Thanks for the heads-up...here's a little irony for you all toH > contemplate.  When I visit the site with SWB on my Alpha, SWB accvio's > after a few seconds,  F crashes my Netscape on MAC also. and I have fairly current version opf) the flash plugin and javascript disbaled.   D Will have to try it on my vax with mosaic where I know it will work.   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 21:45:29 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: Zip question $ Message-ID: <dof6pp$jl0$2@online.de>  F In article <Beeqf.34879$7h7.4202@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>, "Jeffrey5 H. Coffield" <jeffrey@digitalsynergyinc.com> writes:    G > Is there a version of zip on either VMS or Linux that can zip a file   > over 2GB?   > ZIP 4.0 is in beta test.  Such functionality is planned.  See  http://www.info-zip.org/   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 18:12:28 -0600 (CST) * From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) Subject: Re: Zip question 2 Message-ID: <05122818122790_2027A458@antinode.org>  P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)  @ > ZIP 4.0 is in beta test.  Such functionality is planned.  See  > http://www.info-zip.org/  D    That's Zip 3 (not 4, unless you know something about this which I% don't), and you're about a week late.    > [...] - > Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 09:36:36 -0600 (CST)  > [...]  > H >    Not an officially released version, but the latest beta source kitsJ > for Zip 3 and UnZip 6 should do the job.  (And complaints are welcome if > you have problems.)  Try:  > 4 >       ftp://ftp.info-zip.org/pub/infozip/OLD/beta/ > ? >       ftp://ftp.info-zip.org/pub/infozip/OLD/beta/unz600c.ann ? >       ftp://ftp.info-zip.org/pub/infozip/OLD/beta/unz600c.zip  > > >       ftp://ftp.info-zip.org/pub/infozip/OLD/beta/zip30e.zip  E    3.0f (beta) is perking right along, too, but I can't offer a date.       SMS.    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.724 ************************