1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 31 Dec 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 729       Contents: MicroVAX II stuff  Re: MicroVAX II stuff  Re: MicroVAX II stuff  Re: MicroVAX II stuff  Re: OT: Mozilla/Firefox  Re: OT: Mozilla/Firefox  Re: OT: Mozilla/Firefox I Re: OT: Mozilla/Firefox (was:Re: Windoze ends year with a major cert ...) I Re: OT: Mozilla/Firefox (was:Re: Windoze ends year with a major cert ...) I Re: OT: Mozilla/Firefox (was:Re: Windoze ends year with a major cert ...) I Re: OT: Mozilla/Firefox (was:Re: Windoze ends year with a major cert ...) I Re: OT: Mozilla/Firefox (was:Re: Windoze ends year with a major cert ...) I Re: OT: Mozilla/Firefox (was:Re: Windoze ends year with a major cert ...) I Re: OT: Mozilla/Firefox (was:Re: Windoze ends year with a major cert ...) P Re: OT: Mozilla/Firefox (was:Re: Windoze ends year with a major cert ...) ...)..P Re: OT: Mozilla/Firefox (was:Re: Windoze ends year with a major cert ...) ...)..P Re: OT: Mozilla/Firefox (was:Re: Windoze ends year with a major cert ...) ...)..P Re: OT: Mozilla/Firefox (was:Re: Windoze ends year with a major cert ...) ...)..H Re: OT: Mozilla/Firefox (was:Re: Windoze ends year with a major cert...) Simh VMS-simulation  Re: Simh VMS-simulation  Re: Simh VMS-simulation  Re: Simh VMS-simulation  Re: Simh VMS-simulation  Re: TLZ07/TLZ09 compatability  Re: vms smtp problem Re: vms smtp problem Re: vms smtp problem  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 31 Dec 2005 16:16:17 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: MicroVAX II stuff, Message-ID: <41np6hF1fn0vlU1@individual.net>  + Anybody here in need of MicroVAX II pieces?    I currently have:     M7600 AC       KA630     M7600 AF       KA630     M7608 AF       2M Memory     M7608 AH       2M Memory )    M7608 BP       4M Memory  (2 of these)   I They could use a new home.  Free for the asking, but I wouldn't turn down I some nice QBUS trinket in exchange.  Looking for RL Controllers, KLESI or H any kind of third-party controller that used IDE disks (were there any?)  H Oh yeah.....  I also still have something labeled Option: VAX U.B.A.  ItI appears to be some kind of a backplane and is brand new.  Surely there is H someone out there that knows what it is and needs it.  even if only as aI spare part for a currently running system.  At least, tell me what it is!    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 31 Dec 2005 18:33:55 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: MicroVAX II stuff, Message-ID: <41o18jF1ej5o8U1@individual.net>  , In article <43B6C990.467A6142@teksavvy.com>,0 	JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > Bill Gunshannon wrote:L >> They could use a new home.  Free for the asking, but I wouldn't turn downL >> some nice QBUS trinket in exchange.  Looking for RL Controllers, KLESI orK >> any kind of third-party controller that used IDE disks (were there any?)  >  > E > I have Klesi,KDA50 and a Q-BUS CI interconnect CIQBA (It has 4 coax  > ports, and one MMJ port.  C Glad you mentioned it.  I have a KDA50 or two around here somewhere B that I can let go as well.  I go trid of all my RA disks and don'tA plan on acquiring any new ones.  Speaking of which, I have an HDA D and a couple of spare logic boards from drives around here somewhereA too.  Of course, shipping the HDA is not likely but maybe someone ( who needs it will be traveling this way.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 31 Dec 2005 18:36:14 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: MicroVAX II stuff, Message-ID: <41o1cuF1ej5o8U2@individual.net>  , In article <43B6C990.467A6142@teksavvy.com>,0 	JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > Bill Gunshannon wrote:L >> They could use a new home.  Free for the asking, but I wouldn't turn downL >> some nice QBUS trinket in exchange.  Looking for RL Controllers, KLESI orK >> any kind of third-party controller that used IDE disks (were there any?)  >  > E > I have Klesi,KDA50 and a Q-BUS CI interconnect CIQBA (It has 4 coax  > ports, and one MMJ port.  H Oh yeah.  Were you offering to trade?  I cold likely use a KLESI or two.E Don't need any more KDA50's and I doubt the QBUS CI is supported on a H PDP-11.  And I am fairly certain the PDP can't join the cluster with the, only other thing I have with CI anyway.  :-)   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 13:10:28 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  Subject: Re: MicroVAX II stuff, Message-ID: <43B6C990.467A6142@teksavvy.com>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:K > They could use a new home.  Free for the asking, but I wouldn't turn down K > some nice QBUS trinket in exchange.  Looking for RL Controllers, KLESI or J > any kind of third-party controller that used IDE disks (were there any?)    C I have Klesi,KDA50 and a Q-BUS CI interconnect CIQBA (It has 4 coax  ports, and one MMJ port.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 11:51:40 +0100 3 From: Michael Unger <spam.to.unger@spamgourmet.com>   Subject: Re: OT: Mozilla/Firefox, Message-ID: <41n67uF1fd847U1@individual.net>  ! On 2005-12-31 05:18, "AEF" wrote:    > [...]  > F > Another problem with Mozilla is fonts: With IE, I can get nice serifH > fonts (I guess it's Times Roman -- it doesn't say what it is). I can'tG > do that with Mozilla. In IE I go to Tools, Options, Accessibility and E > check ignore font sizes and ignore font styles. These are my normal F > settings. With this I get what for me is text that is much easier to@ > read with most Web pages. There are problems occasionally withE > paragraphs of text overlapping adjacent regions (and vice versa!!!) G > because some sites don't care about people like me. But with Mozilla, I > doing the same thing is a big PITA. You have to keep playing with Sizes H > and Minumum Sizes and you have to use different settings for differentH > sites and the fonts never look as good as they do in IE. You can't getG > one set of sizes that works on most pages. Sorry, IE wins this round,  > too.   ???   H "Edit" -> "Preferences" -> "Appearance" -> "Fonts". What exactly are you missing?   > [...]  > F > Mozilla is far better for gif files. No doubt about it. And I use itG > for that. But I still can't get it to be the default for gif's, which G > is MS's fault, I'd guess. As for the "tabs": I'm not THAT crazy about I > the tabs. They're nice, but I don't like them as much as you apparently I > do (maybe because I favor using keyboard shortcuts -- it's been a while I > since I tried Mozilla). And finally: Yes, Mozilla is safer, and perhaps + > more robust, but for me it's also a PITA.   E "Edit" -> "Preferences" -> "Advanced" -> "System". There are a lot of 8 checkboxes for file types, including GIF, and protocols.   > [...]    Michael    --  ; Real names enhance the probability of getting real answers. 5 My e-mail account at DECUS Munich is no longer valid.    ------------------------------    Date: 31 Dec 2005 07:17:40 -0800$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>  Subject: Re: OT: Mozilla/FirefoxB Message-ID: <1136042259.954342.54970@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>   Michael Unger wrote:# > On 2005-12-31 05:18, "AEF" wrote:  > 	 > > [...]  > > H > > Another problem with Mozilla is fonts: With IE, I can get nice serifJ > > fonts (I guess it's Times Roman -- it doesn't say what it is). I can'tI > > do that with Mozilla. In IE I go to Tools, Options, Accessibility and G > > check ignore font sizes and ignore font styles. These are my normal H > > settings. With this I get what for me is text that is much easier toB > > read with most Web pages. There are problems occasionally withG > > paragraphs of text overlapping adjacent regions (and vice versa!!!) I > > because some sites don't care about people like me. But with Mozilla, K > > doing the same thing is a big PITA. You have to keep playing with Sizes J > > and Minumum Sizes and you have to use different settings for differentJ > > sites and the fonts never look as good as they do in IE. You can't getI > > one set of sizes that works on most pages. Sorry, IE wins this round,  > > too. >  > ???  > J > "Edit" -> "Preferences" -> "Appearance" -> "Fonts". What exactly are you
 > missing?  G A single setting that works for most Web pages. Fonts that look as good E as IE's fonts. With IE I can use my ignore sizes and fonts for a huge D majority of Web pages and I can turn them off (a small pain) for theD few pages that require such. With Mozilla or Firefox or whatever theD hell it is I have to constantly change the sizes and I don't get theG same fonts with the same settings as I go to different sites. Also, the F fonts config page is less keyboard friendly than IE's. It also has tooE many things to configure that don't seem to do what they say they do. F And I have a lot of trouble getting them to do what I want them to do.E For example, in Google Groups, I have to turn Always use my fonts off G to get the fixed font. When I click on Google's proportional font I get G proportional font but I get sans serif even though I selected serif for F proportional in the Firefox config box. So I have to go back to AlwaysD use my fonts. IT'S A PITA comapred to IE. Also, the fonts in IE look much better.   > 	 > > [...]  > > H > > Mozilla is far better for gif files. No doubt about it. And I use itI > > for that. But I still can't get it to be the default for gif's, which I > > is MS's fault, I'd guess. As for the "tabs": I'm not THAT crazy about K > > the tabs. They're nice, but I don't like them as much as you apparently K > > do (maybe because I favor using keyboard shortcuts -- it's been a while K > > since I tried Mozilla). And finally: Yes, Mozilla is safer, and perhaps - > > more robust, but for me it's also a PITA.  > G > "Edit" -> "Preferences" -> "Advanced" -> "System". There are a lot of : > checkboxes for file types, including GIF, and protocols.  C My Mozilla or Firefox doesn't have edit/pref/adva/system. I have an > "advanced" config box under tools/options, but it doesn't haveC checkboxes for file types. If you're talking about file types under F Windows Explorer's Folder Options, I have it set for gifs to be run byG Mozilla, but when I choose a gif file, it doesn't work. It doesn't open D Firefox. If Firefox is already open, it comes to the foreground, but4 the gif doesn't load. It does not work. (Win 98 SE.)  A I'm running what I believe is Firefox 1.0.  What are you running?    > 	 > > [...]  > 	 > Michael  >  > --= > Real names enhance the probability of getting real answers. 7 > My e-mail account at DECUS Munich is no longer valid.    AEF    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 17:02:28 +0100 3 From: Michael Unger <spam.to.unger@spamgourmet.com>   Subject: Re: OT: Mozilla/Firefox, Message-ID: <41nol6F1f9c6nU1@individual.net>  ! On 2005-12-31 16:17, "AEF" wrote:    > [...]  > E > My Mozilla or Firefox doesn't have edit/pref/adva/system. I have an @ > "advanced" config box under tools/options, but it doesn't haveE > checkboxes for file types. If you're talking about file types under E                                        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ H > Windows Explorer's Folder Options, I have it set for gifs to be run by#   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I > Mozilla, but when I choose a gif file, it doesn't work. It doesn't open F > Firefox. If Firefox is already open, it comes to the foreground, but6 > the gif doesn't load. It does not work. (Win 98 SE.)  H I'm definitely *not* talking about "folder options", just native Mozilla options.  C > I'm running what I believe is Firefox 1.0.  What are you running?   G I'm running several *Mozilla* (i.e., "the suite") versions from v1.3 to " 1.7.12 on Win2k and WinXP systems.   Michael    --  ; Real names enhance the probability of getting real answers. 5 My e-mail account at DECUS Munich is no longer valid.    ------------------------------    Date: 31 Dec 2005 09:29:26 +01006 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)R Subject: Re: OT: Mozilla/Firefox (was:Re: Windoze ends year with a major cert ...), Message-ID: <43b64f76$1@news.langstoeger.at>  i In article <1136008191.090269.32670@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>, "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> writes: , >Firefox and Mozilla are different browsers?  L Yes, but they are relatives. Both (and more) are from http://www.mozilla.orgL Mozilla is a suite of browser, mail/news client, IRC client and HTML editor.L Firefox is a (small=fast) browser only, thunderbird a mail/news client only.I Mozilla (suite) is what was formerly existing as netscape navigator gold.   C >                                             On my PC at home: The G >shortcut is Mozilla Firefox.  The title bar says Mozilla Firefox Start D >Page - Mozilla Firefox. The Help About title bar says About Mozilla4 >Firefox. In the window it says Firefox version 1.0.  J Mozilla is both. The organization and the browser suite (the internal nameM of netscape if you like). There is even the newer http://www.mozilla.com now.   N Current is Mozilla V1.7.12, Firefox V1.5, Thunderbird V1.0.7 (and V1.5 in RC2)  @ >And now your telling me that there is Mozilla, and then there'sD >Firefox. I don't think it's confusing enough!!! ;-) Please clarify. >(And who are SWB?)   H SWB (or CSWB) is the (Compaq) Secure Web Browser. This means, the portedL and supported by VMS engineering version of the mozilla suite (not firefox).K Just as NETSCAPE V2 & V3 was many years ago. The current version is V1.7-11   = See http://www.openvms.digital.com/openvms/products/ips/cswb/   D >Well, I have Mozilla Firefox 1.0, or Firefox 1.0, or I really don'tF >know what the hell I have in the context of your post! The start pageG >says Firefox 1.5 is ready (is that Firefox or Mozilla). Maybe I'll try @ >that and report back, but not now. Oh, I see: Firefox is reallyG >Firefox, unless it's Mozilla. and vice versa! unless it's not. So tell  >me who's on first.   ! You sound unwilling not unable...    --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------   Date: 31 Dec 2005 14:48:50 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)R Subject: Re: OT: Mozilla/Firefox (was:Re: Windoze ends year with a major cert ...), Message-ID: <41nk2iF1f9nsiU1@individual.net>  0 In article <11rcjfeob81pu40@corp.supernews.com>,* 	Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes: > Bill Gunshannon wrote:+ >> In article <43B5B9F7.70401@comcast.net>, + >> 	BRAD <bradhamilton@comcast.net> writes:  >>   >>>Rich Jordan wrote:  >>>  >>>>Happiness is... I >>>>     three different coworkers coming to my little cube and asking me H >>>>nicely if they might use my Alphastation to do some browsing; due toH >>>>the research going on they have to visit some oddball sites and justG >>>>didn't feel comfortable doing it on their fancy peecees just now... H >>>>(and no its not porn, but some searches lead to eastern European and >>>>Asian sites).  >>>>G >>>>     Now at least two of them want to try Firefox after exposure to K >>>>Mozilla ;)  They know its not a security cure-all but the tabs sure are  >>>>nice...  >>> I >>>It continues to amaze me that so many people have not heard of (or do  = >>>not use) Mozilla/Firefox - people who consider themselves  K >>>"internet-savvy".  It sure makes surfing easier and safer.  I guess too  I >>>many folks are used to beating themselves over the head with Internet  > >>>Exploder, and have gotten used to the dull ache of Windows. >>   >>  I >> It could also be because so many sites are programming to the IE model I >> and other browsers just don't work.  And, like it or not, the job must E >> get done and if it requires IE, well that is what you have to use. / >> Not saying it's right or wise, just reality.  > G > Some of the solution to that is for every user that has a problem to  H > complain to the webmaster or whoever.  Enough squeeky wheels and some  > lube may become available. >   D Like I said above, reality check time. The university has contractedF it's web design out to a third party.  Users on the web have no accessE to (or even the ability to identify) this entity.  So the only person H you can complain to has no control over it.  That's reality.  The choiceH of IE support to the detriment of all other browsers is as much industryG standard as the x86 architecture, that's reality.  Squeek all you want, H this is yert another place where MS has won and all the squeeking in theF world won't change it until MS is supplanted as the industry standard.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------    Date: 31 Dec 2005 07:27:28 -0800$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>R Subject: Re: OT: Mozilla/Firefox (was:Re: Windoze ends year with a major cert ...)B Message-ID: <1136042848.340473.60300@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER wrote:k > In article <1136008191.090269.32670@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>, "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> writes: . > >Firefox and Mozilla are different browsers? > N > Yes, but they are relatives. Both (and more) are from http://www.mozilla.orgN > Mozilla is a suite of browser, mail/news client, IRC client and HTML editor.N > Firefox is a (small=fast) browser only, thunderbird a mail/news client only.K > Mozilla (suite) is what was formerly existing as netscape navigator gold.   F So Mozilla is both the suite and the browser in that suite and FirefoxD is a standalone from the same organization. Why isn't the standalone& browser the same as the suite browser?   > E > >                                             On my PC at home: The I > >shortcut is Mozilla Firefox.  The title bar says Mozilla Firefox Start F > >Page - Mozilla Firefox. The Help About title bar says About Mozilla6 > >Firefox. In the window it says Firefox version 1.0. > L > Mozilla is both. The organization and the browser suite (the internal nameO > of netscape if you like). There is even the newer http://www.mozilla.com now.   > Please don't bring Netscape into this. That only makes it more. confusing. And now there's a com AND org? WHY?   > P > Current is Mozilla V1.7.12, Firefox V1.5, Thunderbird V1.0.7 (and V1.5 in RC2) > B > >And now your telling me that there is Mozilla, and then there'sF > >Firefox. I don't think it's confusing enough!!! ;-) Please clarify. > >(And who are SWB?)  > J > SWB (or CSWB) is the (Compaq) Secure Web Browser. This means, the portedN > and supported by VMS engineering version of the mozilla suite (not firefox).M > Just as NETSCAPE V2 & V3 was many years ago. The current version is V1.7-11  > ? > See http://www.openvms.digital.com/openvms/products/ips/cswb/  > F > >Well, I have Mozilla Firefox 1.0, or Firefox 1.0, or I really don'tH > >know what the hell I have in the context of your post! The start pageI > >says Firefox 1.5 is ready (is that Firefox or Mozilla). Maybe I'll try B > >that and report back, but not now. Oh, I see: Firefox is reallyI > >Firefox, unless it's Mozilla. and vice versa! unless it's not. So tell  > >me who's on first.  > # > You sound unwilling not unable...   D I don't want to spend a lot of time with stuff that everyone says isC wonderful but when I get it I find it to be instead a PITA. With IE E I've already learned its quirks and can live with it and for me it is G better than Firefox 1.0. I'll have to try Firefox 1.5 but I am inclined E to believe that it won't address any of my complaints. Then I'll have B to download the entire Mozilla suite and mess with that. More timeB possibly wasted to only find that I prefer IE after all. There areD things I hate about IE, but I still find it better than Firefox 1.0.@ It's a little like QWERTY vs. Dvorak. I'd love to try the DvorakG keyboard, except that I hear there is a considerable learning curve and > then you are stuck using only your own stuff or have to become# "ambidextrous" with the two styles.    AEF    >  > -- > Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER ' > Network and OpenVMS system specialist  > E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atH > A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Dec 2005 07:40:05 -0800$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>R Subject: Re: OT: Mozilla/Firefox (was:Re: Windoze ends year with a major cert ...)C Message-ID: <1136043605.620269.104230@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   
 AEF wrote:
 > BRAD wrote:  > > Rich Jordan wrote: > [...]  > > I > > It continues to amaze me that so many people have not heard of (or do = > > not use) Mozilla/Firefox - people who consider themselves K > > "internet-savvy".  It sure makes surfing easier and safer.  I guess too I > > many folks are used to beating themselves over the head with Internet ? > > Exploder, and have gotten used to the dull ache of Windows.  > I > [Normally, I really hate Microsoft, but there are some exceptions. This  > is one of them.] > H > Well, some of us prefer Internet Exploder. It does some things MozillaF > can't. If you hate the mouse, and I surely do, IE is better. In most [...]   = And here's another thing I don't like about Firefox: Bookmark 9 management. I can't use a keyboard shortcut to get to the D search-results pane: I am forced to use the stupid mouse. In IE, the@ bookmarks (favorites) are just files I can manipulate in WindowsA Explorer. I don't even bother with the IE Favorites Organize crap B because it is total crap. (It gives you one of those really stupidG windows that are way too small and can't be maximized. It is one of the G most worthless pieces of software I have ever seen in my life.) Instead D I just have a shortcut on my desktop that opens the Favorites folderA and I can manipulate the favorites and search them with the usual ? Windows stuff -- all without touching the mouse. And why is the > Location column in the Firefox bookmark-search window severelyD truncated leaving a huge blank column for non-existent descriptions. That's a Microsoft stupidity!   F I'm glad that many of you are happy with Firefox. Just want to let youD know it's not better for everyone as many seem to think -- and maybe3 find out secret ways to make it work better for me!    ------------------------------    Date: 31 Dec 2005 18:42:30 +01006 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)R Subject: Re: OT: Mozilla/Firefox (was:Re: Windoze ends year with a major cert ...)* Message-ID: <43b6d116@news.langstoeger.at>  i In article <1136042848.340473.60300@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> writes: ! >Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER wrote: l >> In article <1136008191.090269.32670@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>, "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> writes:/ >> >Firefox and Mozilla are different browsers?  >>O >> Yes, but they are relatives. Both (and more) are from http://www.mozilla.org O >> Mozilla is a suite of browser, mail/news client, IRC client and HTML editor. O >> Firefox is a (small=fast) browser only, thunderbird a mail/news client only. L >> Mozilla (suite) is what was formerly existing as netscape navigator gold. > G >So Mozilla is both the suite and the browser in that suite and Firefox E >is a standalone from the same organization. Why isn't the standalone ' >browser the same as the suite browser?   K Don't know. And just to confuse you, MOZILLA is still the browser with more K settings to select. I would like to love firefox, but as long as it doesn't M run on VMS (and still has fewer controls) it will loose against MOZILLA here. 3 btw MOZILLA and Firefox do share _a lot_ of code...   ? >Please don't bring Netscape into this. That only makes it more  >confusing.   6 Not if you already lived in the internet a decade ago.  J I'm with e-mails since 1-Mar-1983 (Mail-11, not SMTP ;-) and with internetJ since 6-Apr-1991 (IP, not UUCP). My first browser was NCSA MOSAIC sometimeJ 1994. It was free. Not so the NETSCAPE browser we bought in hundreds a fewK years later. Another few years later NETSCAPE became free too (the browser, L the webserver was never free, but some more years later was obsoleted by M$)I It's a shame that I don't remember my first webserver then in 1994 now...   / >           And now there's a com AND org? WHY?   A That's called marketing. Some people love to try .COM URLs first.   $ >> You sound unwilling not unable... > E >I don't want to spend a lot of time with stuff that everyone says is D >wonderful but when I get it I find it to be instead a PITA. With IEF >I've already learned its quirks and can live with it and for me it isH >better than Firefox 1.0. I'll have to try Firefox 1.5 but I am inclinedF >to believe that it won't address any of my complaints. Then I'll haveC >to download the entire Mozilla suite and mess with that. More time C >possibly wasted to only find that I prefer IE after all. There are E >things I hate about IE, but I still find it better than Firefox 1.0. A >It's a little like QWERTY vs. Dvorak. I'd love to try the Dvorak H >keyboard, except that I hear there is a considerable learning curve and? >then you are stuck using only your own stuff or have to become $ >"ambidextrous" with the two styles.  F Run your browser on VMS and you only have the choice of SWB - which isD MOZILLA - (and some more but unfortunately non-current browsers likeI MOSAIC, LYNX, NETSCAPE Navigator Gold V3.03, ... you surely love to hate)   
 Happy Newyear    --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 13:39:50 -0500 - From: William Webb <william.w.webb@gmail.com> R Subject: Re: OT: Mozilla/Firefox (was:Re: Windoze ends year with a major cert ...)H Message-ID: <8660a3a10512311039x7cc4742cud127151a9fa2342@mail.gmail.com>  8 On 31 Dec 2005 18:42:30 +0100, Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER <peter@langstoeger.at> wrote: L > In article <1136042848.340473.60300@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "AEF" =  <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> writes:# > >Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER wrote: L > >> In article <1136008191.090269.32670@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>, "AE=# F" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> writes: 1 > >> >Firefox and Mozilla are different browsers?  > >>L > >> Yes, but they are relatives. Both (and more) are from http://www.mozil= la.orgL > >> Mozilla is a suite of browser, mail/news client, IRC client and HTML e= ditor.L > >> Firefox is a (small=3Dfast) browser only, thunderbird a mail/news clie= nt only.L > >> Mozilla (suite) is what was formerly existing as netscape navigator go= ld.  > > I > >So Mozilla is both the suite and the browser in that suite and Firefox G > >is a standalone from the same organization. Why isn't the standalone ) > >browser the same as the suite browser?  > L > Don't know. And just to confuse you, MOZILLA is still the browser with mo= reL > settings to select. I would like to love firefox, but as long as it doesn= 'tL > run on VMS (and still has fewer controls) it will loose against MOZILLA h= ere.5 > btw MOZILLA and Firefox do share _a lot_ of code...  > A > >Please don't bring Netscape into this. That only makes it more 
 > >confusing.  > 8 > Not if you already lived in the internet a decade ago. > L > I'm with e-mails since 1-Mar-1983 (Mail-11, not SMTP ;-) and with interne= t L > since 6-Apr-1991 (IP, not UUCP). My first browser was NCSA MOSAIC sometim= e L > 1994. It was free. Not so the NETSCAPE browser we bought in hundreds a fe= w L > years later. Another few years later NETSCAPE became free too (the browse= r,L > the webserver was never free, but some more years later was obsoleted by = M$) K > It's a shame that I don't remember my first webserver then in 1994 now...  > 1 > >           And now there's a com AND org? WHY?  > C > That's called marketing. Some people love to try .COM URLs first.  > & > >> You sound unwilling not unable... > > G > >I don't want to spend a lot of time with stuff that everyone says is F > >wonderful but when I get it I find it to be instead a PITA. With IEH > >I've already learned its quirks and can live with it and for me it isJ > >better than Firefox 1.0. I'll have to try Firefox 1.5 but I am inclinedH > >to believe that it won't address any of my complaints. Then I'll haveE > >to download the entire Mozilla suite and mess with that. More time E > >possibly wasted to only find that I prefer IE after all. There are G > >things I hate about IE, but I still find it better than Firefox 1.0. C > >It's a little like QWERTY vs. Dvorak. I'd love to try the Dvorak J > >keyboard, except that I hear there is a considerable learning curve andA > >then you are stuck using only your own stuff or have to become & > >"ambidextrous" with the two styles. > H > Run your browser on VMS and you only have the choice of SWB - which isF > MOZILLA - (and some more but unfortunately non-current browsers likeK > MOSAIC, LYNX, NETSCAPE Navigator Gold V3.03, ... you surely love to hate)  >  > Happy Newyear  >  > -- > Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER ' > Network and OpenVMS system specialist  > E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atH > A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist >   B Another option- that of building a tweaked Windows installation CDE that doesn't install Internet Explorer, Outlook Express and a host of E other exploitables that come with W2K out-of-the-box  can be found at # http://www.vorck.com/remove-ie.html   2 I've used his methodology and it works quite well.  E However, as I said on their forum, when it comes to Windows security,   you can't un-Swiss the cheese...  E The downside to using this method is that you have to add a number of C freeware packages to make up for things that have been stripped out  for security reasons.        WWWebb --C NOTE: This email address is only used for noncommerical VMS-related  correspondence. C All unsolicited commercial email will be deemed to be a request for 8 services pursuant to the terms and conditions located at# http://bellsouthpwp.net/w/e/webbww/    ------------------------------   Date: 31 Dec 2005 18:40:28 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)R Subject: Re: OT: Mozilla/Firefox (was:Re: Windoze ends year with a major cert ...), Message-ID: <41o1ksF1ej5o8U3@individual.net>  0 In article <11rdiu5s9n1v2da@corp.supernews.com>,* 	Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes: > Bill Gunshannon wrote:3 >> In article <11rcjfeob81pu40@corp.supernews.com>, - >> 	Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:  >>   >>>Bill Gunshannon wrote:  >>> , >>>>In article <43B5B9F7.70401@comcast.net>,, >>>>	BRAD <bradhamilton@comcast.net> writes: >>>> >>>> >>>>>Rich Jordan wrote:  >>>>>  >>>>>  >>>>>>Happiness is... J >>>>>>    three different coworkers coming to my little cube and asking meJ >>>>>>nicely if they might use my Alphastation to do some browsing; due toJ >>>>>>the research going on they have to visit some oddball sites and justI >>>>>>didn't feel comfortable doing it on their fancy peecees just now... J >>>>>>(and no its not porn, but some searches lead to eastern European and >>>>>>Asian sites).  >>>>>>H >>>>>>    Now at least two of them want to try Firefox after exposure toM >>>>>>Mozilla ;)  They know its not a security cure-all but the tabs sure are 
 >>>>>>nice...  >>>>> K >>>>>It continues to amaze me that so many people have not heard of (or do  ? >>>>>not use) Mozilla/Firefox - people who consider themselves  M >>>>>"internet-savvy".  It sure makes surfing easier and safer.  I guess too  K >>>>>many folks are used to beating themselves over the head with Internet  @ >>>>>Exploder, and have gotten used to the dull ache of Windows. >>>> >>>>J >>>>It could also be because so many sites are programming to the IE modelJ >>>>and other browsers just don't work.  And, like it or not, the job mustF >>>>get done and if it requires IE, well that is what you have to use.0 >>>>Not saying it's right or wise, just reality. >>> H >>>Some of the solution to that is for every user that has a problem to I >>>complain to the webmaster or whoever.  Enough squeeky wheels and some   >>>lube may become available.  >>>  >>   >>  G >> Like I said above, reality check time. The university has contracted I >> it's web design out to a third party.  Users on the web have no access H >> to (or even the ability to identify) this entity.  So the only personK >> you can complain to has no control over it.  That's reality.  The choice K >> of IE support to the detriment of all other browsers is as much industry J >> standard as the x86 architecture, that's reality.  Squeek all you want,K >> this is yert another place where MS has won and all the squeeking in the I >> world won't change it until MS is supplanted as the industry standard.  >>   >> bill  >>   > I > There are many things in this world where people may feel that nothing  L > can be done.  However, consider the following, "PA legislature pay raise".  F Trust me, they'll get their money before their done.  That's politics.H But the only reason they backed down was the threat of the loss of theirG very lucrative positions.  Do you honestly think a bunch of whining web K users are going to unseat Microsoft from it's position of world domination? I I didn't vote them into that position and I don't  have the power to vote  them back out.   bill     --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 04:24:38 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> Y Subject: Re: OT: Mozilla/Firefox (was:Re: Windoze ends year with a major cert ...) ...).. 0 Message-ID: <11rcjfeob81pu40@corp.supernews.com>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:* > In article <43B5B9F7.70401@comcast.net>,* > 	BRAD <bradhamilton@comcast.net> writes: >  >>Rich Jordan wrote: >> >>>Happiness is...H >>>     three different coworkers coming to my little cube and asking meG >>>nicely if they might use my Alphastation to do some browsing; due to G >>>the research going on they have to visit some oddball sites and just F >>>didn't feel comfortable doing it on their fancy peecees just now...G >>>(and no its not porn, but some searches lead to eastern European and  >>>Asian sites). >>> F >>>     Now at least two of them want to try Firefox after exposure toJ >>>Mozilla ;)  They know its not a security cure-all but the tabs sure are
 >>>nice... >>H >>It continues to amaze me that so many people have not heard of (or do < >>not use) Mozilla/Firefox - people who consider themselves J >>"internet-savvy".  It sure makes surfing easier and safer.  I guess too H >>many folks are used to beating themselves over the head with Internet = >>Exploder, and have gotten used to the dull ache of Windows.  >  > H > It could also be because so many sites are programming to the IE modelH > and other browsers just don't work.  And, like it or not, the job mustD > get done and if it requires IE, well that is what you have to use.. > Not saying it's right or wise, just reality.  E Some of the solution to that is for every user that has a problem to  F complain to the webmaster or whoever.  Enough squeeky wheels and some  lube may become available.   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 12:58:38 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> Y Subject: Re: OT: Mozilla/Firefox (was:Re: Windoze ends year with a major cert ...) ...).. , Message-ID: <43B6C6CB.BFE77AED@teksavvy.com>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:F > Like I said above, reality check time. The university has contractedH > it's web design out to a third party.  Users on the web have no accessG > to (or even the ability to identify) this entity.  So the only person . > you can complain to has no control over it.   H Then, you escalate to the very top. I had a similar experience with BellE Canada (a large civil service paper pushing former-monopoly telephone E company). I sent a techical complaint to "webmaster" address. I got a 2 bounce message that jdoe@company.tld didn't exist.  G So essentially, any complaints to the webmaster was going to an invalid - mailbox at the outsourced web design company.   H I sent an email to the president of Bell. Started off that this wasn't aF complaint to him, but pointing to him a quality assurance issue withinE his company. Mentioned that Bell wasn't seeing complaints about their E web site that could be used to gauge contractor performance, but that F the outsourced company was bouncing them.  Additionally,  Bell had notC even noticed that complaints going to the contractor were bouncing.   D Within a couple of days, I got an email back from someone much lowerH telling me that they had found my original complaint from logs and wouldG make sure that the address worked.  Bell has always been very concerned R about their image.  So while I was pleased to see a response, I was not surprised.      > At the other extreme: Air Canada had a contract with one largeE consulting firm to design its error-laden web site, and another large G consulting firm to provide customer support.  AC was totally out of the D loop. The customer support company could only tell customers the webG equivalent of "press return after you entered your username" and had no G relationship with the web design company so there was no pipe to funnel F description of problems and design issues. (One of these companies was: IBM, so we're not talking small basement operations here).    E When you point out to people high enough that their web site does not H adhere to international standards and that if they did, they coudl caterF to all users of the web, it strikes a nerve. Unless you are a slave toG Microsoft (like HP), adhering to HTML standards *should* be a priority.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 13:07:46 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> Y Subject: Re: OT: Mozilla/Firefox (was:Re: Windoze ends year with a major cert ...) ...).. + Message-ID: <43B6C8EF.ABEE092@teksavvy.com>   
 AEF wrote:H > So Mozilla is both the suite and the browser in that suite and FirefoxF > is a standalone from the same organization. Why isn't the standalone( > browser the same as the suite browser?  @ > Please don't bring Netscape into this. That only makes it more0 > confusing. And now there's a com AND org? WHY?  A Simple: Netscape corp used the Mozilla source code. When Netscape H started to vanish, it decided to make this open sourced, fulfilling someC long promise. Mozilla organsiation was formed to take over what was G essentially netscape communicator. (browser, mail, news, composer and a  few other things).  B Mozilla is the open sourced netscaped fixed to to be more current.  G But Mozilla suffered major bloat. They got funding to produced a scaled H down more efficient browser to fit on smaller devices. Firefox was born.  E > wonderful but when I get it I find it to be instead a PITA. With IE G > I've already learned its quirks and can live with it and for me it is  > better than Firefox 1.0.    F Nobody is forcing you to stop using IE. It is like underwear, you wear- what you like and what is comfortable to you.   H However, consider this: There are web standards. Microsoft deviates fromE standards on purpose. And it is not right to support this tactic. The H more people use standarsd complaint browser, the more web designers willG have to ignore the Microsoft non-standard extensions and code their web G site properly. The more thsi happens, the less MS software will be used  to generate non-compliant HTML.   B This si why it is important to send messages to those in charge ofR corporate web sites telling them that they shoudl adhere to established standards.  O When anyone comlains that I have an old web browser, my response is as follows:   D If you adhered to web standards, I wouldn't be on the phone with youF because your pages would either work for me, or I would know that theyG are not working because of my old browser. But as long as your web site D is error laden, you need to get complaints to awaken you to the fact/ that it is your web site that is non compliant.   G The best one I saw was Reuters. The page telling me that they refuse to H serve me content because my browser wdid not adhere to web standards wasD full of HTML errors !!!!  Perhaps they shoudl start to adhere to the4 standards before refusing to serve content to users.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 13:21:32 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> Y Subject: Re: OT: Mozilla/Firefox (was:Re: Windoze ends year with a major cert ...) ...).. 0 Message-ID: <11rdiu5s9n1v2da@corp.supernews.com>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:2 > In article <11rcjfeob81pu40@corp.supernews.com>,, > 	Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes: >  >>Bill Gunshannon wrote: >>+ >>>In article <43B5B9F7.70401@comcast.net>, + >>>	BRAD <bradhamilton@comcast.net> writes:  >>>  >>>  >>>>Rich Jordan wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>Happiness is...I >>>>>    three different coworkers coming to my little cube and asking me I >>>>>nicely if they might use my Alphastation to do some browsing; due to I >>>>>the research going on they have to visit some oddball sites and just H >>>>>didn't feel comfortable doing it on their fancy peecees just now...I >>>>>(and no its not porn, but some searches lead to eastern European and  >>>>>Asian sites). >>>>> G >>>>>    Now at least two of them want to try Firefox after exposure to L >>>>>Mozilla ;)  They know its not a security cure-all but the tabs sure are >>>>>nice... >>>>J >>>>It continues to amaze me that so many people have not heard of (or do > >>>>not use) Mozilla/Firefox - people who consider themselves L >>>>"internet-savvy".  It sure makes surfing easier and safer.  I guess too J >>>>many folks are used to beating themselves over the head with Internet ? >>>>Exploder, and have gotten used to the dull ache of Windows.  >>>  >>> I >>>It could also be because so many sites are programming to the IE model I >>>and other browsers just don't work.  And, like it or not, the job must E >>>get done and if it requires IE, well that is what you have to use. / >>>Not saying it's right or wise, just reality.  >>G >>Some of the solution to that is for every user that has a problem to  H >>complain to the webmaster or whoever.  Enough squeeky wheels and some  >>lube may become available. >> >  > F > Like I said above, reality check time. The university has contractedH > it's web design out to a third party.  Users on the web have no accessG > to (or even the ability to identify) this entity.  So the only person J > you can complain to has no control over it.  That's reality.  The choiceJ > of IE support to the detriment of all other browsers is as much industryI > standard as the x86 architecture, that's reality.  Squeek all you want, J > this is yert another place where MS has won and all the squeeking in theH > world won't change it until MS is supplanted as the industry standard. >  > bill >   G There are many things in this world where people may feel that nothing  J can be done.  However, consider the following, "PA legislature pay raise".   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 12:33:06 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> Q Subject: Re: OT: Mozilla/Firefox (was:Re: Windoze ends year with a major cert...) , Message-ID: <43B6C0D1.43E16985@teksavvy.com>   Dave Froble wrote:F > Some of the solution to that is for every user that has a problem toG > complain to the webmaster or whoever.  Enough squeeky wheels and some  > lube may become available.  C Whenever some teleophone customer represetative invites me to visit F their web site (a bit like McDonalds asking you if you want some appleH desert with your big mac), I make a point of telling that that their webD site is not standards compliant, generates hundreds of errors in theK official HTML validator and is not usable by people who do not run windows.   @ At one point, one of the CSR didn't believe me, I pointed him toG validator.w3.org, asked him to enter his company's main web site addres F and he say the 60-0 or some errors on the one page that asked for your language preference :-)     F (Air Canada at one point had a 2 paragraph text press release, but theF page had over 700 errors only , mostly because of the 700kb of useless6 javascipt that was improperly declared/written in it).   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 15:51:11 GMT 0 From: "Wim Meulemans" <wim.meulemans@telenet.be> Subject: Simh VMS-simulation; Message-ID: <PNxtf.85879$IZ7.5638176@phobos.telenet-ops.be>    Hello,  < First, for everyone here, a really nice and successful 2006!, ____________________________________________? My target: to run a Pli-compiler on my PC, a Windows XP-system.   A On the comp.lang.pli newsgroup they told me that there is a nice  & Pli-compiler, that runs under Vax/Vms.5 Also I've installed the Vax/Vms-simulator Simh, from  ) http://simh.trailing-edge.com , on my PC. I Now, when I start this simulator (vax.exe under the Dos-shell in XP), it  M seems impossible to me to start the installation from the Pli-compiler (from  L http://www.kednos.com ), neither to execute the Vms-commands that people on  the pli-group suggested to me.  I 1. I don't know if someone here works with this Simh simulator. It seems  I that I have to login in Vms first. Is that possible in Simh, and if yes,   how?K 2. My knowledge from Vax and Vms is limited. Do you know if there exists a   "Vax-manual" for beginners?  Greetz and thx!  Wim    ------------------------------   Date: 31 Dec 2005 16:05:31 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)  Subject: Re: Simh VMS-simulation, Message-ID: <41noibF1fkokvU1@individual.net>  ; In article <PNxtf.85879$IZ7.5638176@phobos.telenet-ops.be>, 3 	"Wim Meulemans" <wim.meulemans@telenet.be> writes:  > Hello, > > > First, for everyone here, a really nice and successful 2006!. > ____________________________________________A > My target: to run a Pli-compiler on my PC, a Windows XP-system.  > C > On the comp.lang.pli newsgroup they told me that there is a nice  ( > Pli-compiler, that runs under Vax/Vms.7 > Also I've installed the Vax/Vms-simulator Simh, from  + > http://simh.trailing-edge.com , on my PC. K > Now, when I start this simulator (vax.exe under the Dos-shell in XP), it  O > seems impossible to me to start the installation from the Pli-compiler (from  N > http://www.kednos.com ), neither to execute the Vms-commands that people on   > the pli-group suggested to me. > K > 1. I don't know if someone here works with this Simh simulator. It seems  K > that I have to login in Vms first. Is that possible in Simh, and if yes,   > how?M > 2. My knowledge from Vax and Vms is limited. Do you know if there exists a   > "Vax-manual" for beginners?  > Greetz and thx!  > Wim   E I think you missed the step where you install VMS.  SIMH emulates VAX C hardware, no OS.  You need to get a Hobbyist License for VMS.  Then E you need to get a copy of VMS to install (either buy or borrow). Then F install VMS.  And then you can install and run the PL1 compiler.  I amE sure someone else more knowledgable than I will pop in here and point F you at a URL with all the gory details for getting a Hobbyist License.  
 Tot ziens.   bill     --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 17:02:44 GMT 0 From: "Wim Meulemans" <wim.meulemans@telenet.be>  Subject: Re: Simh VMS-simulation; Message-ID: <UQytf.85942$VW7.5627935@phobos.telenet-ops.be>   8 "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@cs.uofs.edu> schreef in bericht & news:41noibF1fkokvU1@individual.net...= > In article <PNxtf.85879$IZ7.5638176@phobos.telenet-ops.be>, 4 > "Wim Meulemans" <wim.meulemans@telenet.be> writes:  - > You need to get a Hobbyist License for VMS.  Fine, that's OK.  G > Then you need to get a copy of VMS to install (either buy or borrow). + Thx for the tip. I indeed missed this step.   K > Then install VMS.  And then you can install and run the PL1 compiler.  I   > amG > sure someone else more knowledgable than I will pop in here and point H > you at a URL with all the gory details for getting a Hobbyist License.. I'll look for it; but now I'm on a better way.   > Tot ziens.- So? Do you speek Dutch? This is well spelled! $ Eveneens tot ziens, en beste wensen! Thank you and good luck! Wim    ------------------------------   Date: 31 Dec 2005 17:28:45 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)  Subject: Re: Simh VMS-simulation, Message-ID: <41ntedF1fp5poU1@individual.net>  ; In article <UQytf.85942$VW7.5627935@phobos.telenet-ops.be>, 3 	"Wim Meulemans" <wim.meulemans@telenet.be> writes: : > "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@cs.uofs.edu> schreef in bericht ( > news:41noibF1fkokvU1@individual.net...> >> In article <PNxtf.85879$IZ7.5638176@phobos.telenet-ops.be>,5 >> "Wim Meulemans" <wim.meulemans@telenet.be> writes:  > . >> You need to get a Hobbyist License for VMS. > Fine, that's OK. > H >> Then you need to get a copy of VMS to install (either buy or borrow).- > Thx for the tip. I indeed missed this step.  > L >> Then install VMS.  And then you can install and run the PL1 compiler.  I  >> am H >> sure someone else more knowledgable than I will pop in here and pointI >> you at a URL with all the gory details for getting a Hobbyist License. 0 > I'll look for it; but now I'm on a better way.   Glad it helped.    > 
 >> Tot ziens. / > So? Do you speek Dutch? This is well spelled!   ; Ik spreek een weinig Nederlands. Ik leefde een paar jaar in 2 Duitsland dichtbij de Nederlandse grens van Venlo.  & > Eveneens tot ziens, en beste wensen! > Thank you and good luck!  $ Your welcome and Gelukkig Nieuw Jaar   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 11:52:36 -0600 (CST) * From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda)  Subject: Re: Simh VMS-simulation2 Message-ID: <05123111523661_2027A458@antinode.org>  ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)  & > Your welcome and Gelukkig Nieuw Jaar  G    Stick to Dutch.  You're English needs work.  But dont worry.  Its' a * problem for alot of people whoo post hear.      SMS.    ------------------------------    Date: 31 Dec 2005 01:19:36 -0800- From: "Z@nospam.com" <uknowwhoiyam@gmail.com> & Subject: Re: TLZ07/TLZ09 compatabilityC Message-ID: <1136020776.679032.188930@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   
 AEF wrote:H > You mean that one can have drives with too-recent firmware? Could thatI > cause problems like I'm having or would it just not work at all (I have = > systems running VAX/VMS v6.1 and others with VAX/VMS v6.2).   C I don't know if too new / unsupported tape drive firmware can cause  problems like you're having.  G What we were seeing were weekly server crashes while making backups. HP < support figured out the problem by analyzing the crash dump.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 08:59:00 -0500 ' From: "Yi Jiang" <y.jiang@sympatico.ca>  Subject: Re: vms smtp problem 9 Message-ID: <G8wtf.7054$l87.943728@news20.bellglobal.com>    > 1 > Ok, so it doesn't even try to process messages.  > D > So this isn't a question of it failing to connect to a gateway. It@ > doesn't try to connect since it doesn't even process messages. > F > is the queue started ? There is a line in the log that says that the@ > symbiont is waiting for the job controller to start the queue. >  > H > If the queue is started, I'd suspect that your mail configuration fileD > has some rules in it that confuse the symbiont and cause it to not > bother processing messages.  > C > You may wish to try to simplify the config. Can you send mail out  > directoly without a gateway ?   B Where is mail configuration file? How can I do like what you said:C > You may wish to try to simplify the config. Can you send mail out  > directoly without a gateway ?    Thank you very much!   Happy New Year!   I Yes, it doe not bother to try at all. After sending smtp mail, the queue   shows:  ( Generic server queue TCPIP$SMTP_NODE0_00  4   Entry  Jobname         Username     Blocks  Status4   -----  -------         --------     ------  ------      44  05123108531419_YI5                          YI                5  Pending   J Server queue TCPIP$SMTP_NODE0_01, idle, on NODE0::, mounted form DAU_FORM.   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Dec 2005 17:45:44 +01006 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) Subject: Re: vms smtp problem , Message-ID: <43b6c3c8$1@news.langstoeger.at>  c In article <G8wtf.7054$l87.943728@news20.bellglobal.com>, "Yi Jiang" <y.jiang@sympatico.ca> writes: J >Yes, it doe not bother to try at all. After sending smtp mail, the queue  >shows:  > ) >Generic server queue TCPIP$SMTP_NODE0_00  > 5 >  Entry  Jobname         Username     Blocks  Status 5 >  -----  -------         --------     ------  ------  >     44  05123108531419_YI 6 >                         YI                5  Pending  8 What does SHOW QUEUE/ALL/FULL TCPIP$SMTP_NODE0_00 tell ?& Is it /GENERIC=(TCPIP$SMTP_NODE0_01) ?  ; And why not at least 2 (server/execution) queues per node ? L One multimegabyte mail to a slow destination and you lock up your mailsystem for hours if not days...  / And did you TCPIP ANALYZE MAIL/REPAIR already ?   K >Server queue TCPIP$SMTP_NODE0_01, idle, on NODE0::, mounted form DAU_FORM.    What is DAU_FORM ?   --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 12:38:45 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  Subject: Re: vms smtp problem , Message-ID: <43B6C225.86AAA15E@teksavvy.com>   Yi Jiang wrote: + >> Generic server queue TCPIP$SMTP_NODE0_00  > 6 >   Entry  Jobname         Username     Blocks  Status6 >   -----  -------         --------     ------  ------ >      44  05123108531419_YI7 >                          YI                5  Pending  > L > Server queue TCPIP$SMTP_NODE0_01, idle, on NODE0::, mounted form DAU_FORM.     OK, big problem here.    Here is what I have:  ' Generic server queue TCPIP$SMTP_BIKE_00 M   /GENERIC=(TCPIP$SMTP_BIKE_01) /OWNER=[SYSTEM] /PROTECTION=(S:M,O:D,G:R,W:S)    /SCHEDULE=(NOSIZE)  F Server queue TCPIP$SMTP_BIKE_01, idle, on BIKE::, mounted form DEFAULT?   /BASE_PRIORITY=4 /DEFAULT=(FEED,FORM=DEFAULT) /OWNER=[SYSTEM] >   /PROCESSOR=TCPIP$SMTP_SYMBIONT /PROTECTION=(S:M,O:D,G:R,W:S)     You should   $stop/queue TCPIP$SMTP_NODE0_01 @ $set queue TCPIP$SMTP_NODE0_01/form=DEFAULT/DEFAULT=FORM=DEFAULT  $start/queue TCPIP$SMTP_NODE0_01    H If the queue has an incomaptible form with the entries, the entries wait- indefinitely until the right form is mounted.    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.729 ************************